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Exactly. Totally subjective. "Eye test". "Intangibles". Aka "some shit I felt like making up". If you want to have discussions on entertainment and skill in isolation (i.e. outside of actual achievements), then go ahead. Not my cup of tea, though. I'm more interested in an NBA GOAT discussion based on sports achievement (e.g. winning,...

Pat Bev knows he could kick LeCowards ass if it went there

Absolutely. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think this a huge statement game for both players

Oh, the "choker" with a personal 47-19 record whilst clutch Embiid's record is 40-21. Makes total sense. :facepalm Also, literally running your team's offense with the 4th most assists per game is somehow bad now? Okkaaayyyyy ... :wtf:

Eye test isn’t ‘totally made up’. What do you think analysts mean when they talk about ‘intangibles’. Not everything shows up in the box score.

Louie with the KO

Sports is entertainment first and foremost so skill and talent definitely counts. How much you think it weighs in overall GOAT criteria is arguable, but to write it off completely makes no sense

The thing with "watching the game" is that two people could watch the same game and reach different conclusions. It's "eye test" (aka "totally made up conclusion") all over again. Also, nobody said watching the game is "thrown out". If you're just interested in setting up strawman arguments, good luck with that.

The 73-win Warriors are massively overrated. Who cares how many regular season games they won when they didn't win the championship? The KD Warriors were flat out better.

Just a quick clarification: personally, it's about sports achievement (e.g. winning, accolades, stats) within the NBA. Skill doesn't really count for that much. What's skill for if you didn't live up to your potential?

Last time we made the playoffs without LBJ, Shawn Kemp was on our team... let that sink in :oldlol:

LeSanta's back at it - bestowing an early Christmas upon my Bulls.

:oldlol: Bron stans now resorting to having to redefine the English language to make their case

No, it tells you who has an entire offense centered around them and who doesn't. Again, nice try. Jokic has a heliocentric offense. Embiid plays pick and roll with Harden who has the ball in his hands more, same with Maxey. Advanced stats didn't protect Jokic from choking away a big lead on the road and Embiid beat him like a dog and hung 47...

Lebron just returned from his injury.

Very sad news. We thought we had the cancer beat when it went into remission last month, but now it’s back and the symptoms are getting worse . Please keep the Lakers in your prayers

Yeah, he was the MVP of ONE GAME. Congratulations. Personal record on games that they actually played in this season: Embiid: 40W - 21L Jokic:s 47W - 19L How about Joel's 60 other games? How about Jokic's 65 other games? Box +/- literally tells you the player's impact on and off the court. Jokic is so far ahead. Or should I say "far,...

Well, that's cause GOAT is about who's the greatest and not who's the best, most skilled player on the court.

What happened last time they both personally played against each other? What happened to that defensive box +/-? That .2 steals and 1.0 DRPG? What about all those assists and glaring advantages Jokic has in FG%? Welcome to reality.

There's only one fanbase that wants everything boiled down to objective criteria, which really just means numbers. Numbers that can be manipulated to make a guy look better than he actually is, by the way. But since watching the game is thrown out, the calculator nerds win the debate. Gotcha.

Not sure who is gonna win it, seems like a 2 man race at the moment between Jokic & Embiid, but Jokic is my pick for MVP at the moment.

They kicked him to the curb and let Pelinka fix LeGMs mess

Oh, the difference is "one game"? Personal record on games that they actually played in this season: Embiid: 40W - 21L Jokic:s 47W - 19L The "far, far, far superior defender" has 0.2 LESS spg, and 1.0 LESS drpg. In fact, Jokic leads the league in defensive box +/-. Love how you pretend not to see the glaring advantage Jokic has in assists...

So when Charles Barkley talks about players not being good just because they put up stats on a mediocre team, that hasn't traditionally been the case? We're going by regular season games now? Devin Booker has 2 40 point games in the Finals. Let's hold our breath on SGA's gaudy regular season stats. Watch T-Mac play against the...

No point in arguing with Louie. He comes from the 3rd world Facebook NBA meme mill, he has no original thoughts or opinions. Games don’t even broadcast where he lives, that’s why you never see him in a game thread despite having 100,000 posts.

"Inferior record" you mean one game Embiid is far, far, far superior defender than Jokic. It's not even close. Embiid has actually been a better defender this year than he has been the previous two years. So try again. Jokic has more players on his teams averaging double digits then Embiid does. In fact, Embiid leads his team's scoring by...

"Eye test" is by far the most subjective. To me, it's basically "I feel like <insert claim here>". As for #4, "popularising" a sport is more of a business criterion rather than a competitive sports criterion. Now that you mention it, GOAT debates often becomes "most popular player" rather the actual best player.