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Agree with this. Whether you have Magic over Bird, Bird over Magic or them 4th/5th or 7th/8th, they both have to be one after the other. No exceptions. RE Shaq and Kobe. It makes no sense Kobe being ahead of Shaq. None. Even ignoring the fact that Shaq was the best player when they were on the same team, no-one, not one person anywhere who is...

He dominated Djokovic & Alcaraz, but the bail out against Dimitrov puts at least a little damper on this title

I never even noticed he never made an All-Defensive Team, other worthy guys like Sheed & Marion never made it either.

In the interest of national security (and Israel's national security) ... it's probably best that the public doesn't know the truth.

2004 Pacers DRTG O'Neal: 93 Artest: 96 DPM Artest: 1.9 O'Neal: 1.3

He’s quite literally 2 and a half years from being able to legally have a beer. At the same age Jordan was about to enter his freshman year of college.

The Sinnerman is too good.

I see NOTHING special about his game.. Just look at the highlights from his 2nd summer league game - what waa special??? ... Today's spaced-out format allows ANYONE that commands the ball to get 30 points with a basic repertoire - but he won't command the ball like that alongside Kyrie, AD or Klay, nor will he score well vs that level of comp, so...

I'm related to an old Mexican actress who was pretty famous in her day. She was in a "La llarona" movie way back in the 60's. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0479872/?ref_=tt_ov_3_3

:no:

Yeah. As I was saying above, if there was one perimeter player in that period who actually justified a DPOY it was Scottie. He was right up there in 95 with Robinson, Ewing, Mutumbo in defensive metrics in spite of being a wing defender which is crazy. He had a better case in 95 than Payton did over Robinson in 96, interestingly enough.

Interesting.

:roll:

Cooper Flagg's summer league days are over, according to Marc Stein. The Mavericks are expected to shut down the No. 1 overall pick for the remainder of the Las Vegas Summer League, which means the next time we'll see him in game action will be during the preseason.

your arguments are always lazy and are anchored around very little substance. general rule of thumb, if your only evidence is something that can be easily refuted by the reverse theoretical scenario, it's garbage.

Again, youre not saying anything new. I could basically make the same reply: Trump brought up the Epstein list many times when no one did, pushing the issue completely unprovoked, even bringing it up on live Television at debates to confront Clinton about it (in regards to Bill), or mention Prince Andrew in an Interview. Promised his...

Centers of the caliber I mentioned very clearly had greater visible impact on team defenses, even without advanced stats. It makes even less sense from an era context because shutting down the paint was more important than some defensive pest on the perimeter( not saying that wasn't important, just not as much). Someone pulling down a dozen boards...

So beautiful, I cried.

After a quick search. Payton, Smart, & Cooper in their DPOY seasons also did not lead their team in those 3 advanced defensive metrics I just posted. Which seems about right, all 3 were known for their man defense and defensive guards who specialize in man defense doesn't really show in advanced stats. There is no stat to track man defense & wing...

Thanks for reminding us how incredible this was guys. Id love to see the threads before game 7 and the nuclear fallout after again.:oldlol:

Yeah that's what I mean. I don't know how someone's ranking can go up decades after they've finishes playing. Granted, its also different groups of people doing these rankings so there's gonna be some variances. Case in point, some of the people who voted on the ESPN top 50 list in 2016 probably didn't vote on whenever they did the last list(...

If the Epstein Files cleared Trump he would be selling them on Truth Social.

They were voted on by steals blocks reputation and team d. Advanced stats werent around

I didn't watch Payton in his prime, but a guy who's nick name is The Glove, he has to be well respected as a defender.

I always tgought they were sumilar. Only o. Ish did i come to find vird was supposedly always better in everyones mind

Well honestly Magic and bird both were often in the 4-6 spots before this last generation pushed them out a bit to varying degrees. I think its just magic gaining some ground back. What's most intriguing to me is how guys general rankings can shuffle up and down the top 10 without having played in decades. Kinda pulls the curtain back on how often...

I think it's insane that any non-big was winning DPOY in this period. With prime Hakeem, Robinson, Mutumbo, Mourning in the league?

:roll::roll::roll: the mental gymnastics involved in defending trump are surreal