Nowitzki::::My main goal is now The NBA championship

[dr8ked]

I think he needs to go to another Team, He's the Cancer in Dallas. :confusedshrug:


BEIJING (Reuters) - Germany's Dirk Nowitzki said he planned to retire from international basketball -- at least for a few years -- after his team was knocked out of the Olympics tournament.
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"I achieved my first goal -- playing basketball for Germany in the Olympics," Nowitzki told journalists after the 106-57 loss to the unbeaten U.S. team. They were eliminated with just one win, against Angola, in their five matches.

"Now my main goal is to win the NBA championship," the all-star forward for the Dallas Mavericks said. "We'll have to wait and see how things develop with Germany in the years ahead."

Germany had not qualified for the Olympics in 16 years. Nowitzki spent his off-seasons playing for his country for the last 10 years in pursuit of his childhood dream of playing at the Olympics. Germany just missed the Olympics in 2000 and 2004.

"I don't want to make any concrete plans right now," he said. "But I knew when I came off the court tonight that it was the last time for a couple of years. So from that point of view it was a wonderful feeling to go out on a high note."

Nowitzki, the first European player to win the NBA's Most Valuable Player award, did not want to rule out a return even though he appeared melancholy about the end of an era. He said he would not play the European championship in Poland next summer.

"Everything's still open, but I think I need a break," he said.

Asked if he would play for Germany in the 2012 Olympics, Nowitzki said: "If we were to qualify for that, I'd be happy to talk about the question. I think the difficult thing will be to qualify. It's been 16 years since the last time."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080818/sp_nm/olympics_basketball_nowitzki_dc;_ylt=AsGHYipO3An.P jxIWM1uG40LMxIF

[1~Gibson~1]

I think he needs to go to another Team, He's the Cancer in Dallas. :confusedshrug:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080818/sp_nm/olympics_basketball_nowitzki_dc;_ylt=AsGHYipO3An.P jxIWM1uG40LMxIFso do you think that dallas will do better without dirk?

[miles berg]

You're high on meth if you think Dallas can win 25 games without Dirk. He is so underrated on this forum it is sickening.

Bottom line, Dallas is a 50+ win team with Dirk and would struggle to win 30 without him for 82 games.

No way you trade him.

[dr8ked]

so do you think that dallas will do better without dirk?


If they can get a Team to match their Offer in a Trade , I think they would do better without Him , Also the Front Office needs to be cut loose

[BrianScalabrine]

The hate against minorities and foreigners is strong in this board.

[haterofhaters]

You're high on meth if you think Dallas can win 25 games without Dirk. He is so underrated on this forum it is sickening.

Bottom line, Dallas is a 50+ win team with Dirk and would struggle to win 30 without him for 82 games.

No way you trade him.
25 games? Don't be ridiculous.. He's good, but this isn't exactly a bad team without him. They obviously wouldn't have won 50+ games but they'd still probably be a 40 win team.

[steve]

Wait, so the implication here is that it's wrong to have multiple goals?

[Geandily]

Wait, so the implication here is that it's wrong to have multiple goals?

I guess so:confusedshrug:

[magic chiongson]

he should join one of these teams then:

lakers, celtics, rockets,...

[DuMa]

so dirk's been sayin all along in the past that hes been holding something back in the tank so he can get germany to the olympics... so he doesnt go all out for dallas during the season/playoffs.

thats what this message sounds like to me.

[dr8ked]

Wait, so the implication here is that it's wrong to have multiple goals?


Nope. The implication is Dallas is not winning any Rings in the Next 5 years with the Team they have. why not Trade him to another Team ?? Only Way he's winning a Ring is if he's the side kick. And this is not a Hate on Dirk Thread, Just Pointing out the Obvious.

[haji_d_robertas]

so dirk's been sayin all along in the past that hes been holding something back in the tank so he can get germany to the olympics... so he doesnt go all out for dallas during the season/playoffs.

thats what this message sounds like to me.


This is an outrageous thing to say about a guy who has played so hard for the Mavs through the years, it's not Dirk's fault that they don't have a ring. A player who is at his level and skill leaves it out on the court day in, day out. He is way way too competitive to even entertain that kind of idea. You are out of your element, DuMa.

[steve]

Nope. The implication is Dallas is not winning any Rings in the Next 5 years with the Team they have. why not Trade him to another Team ?? Only Way he's winning a Ring is if he's the side kick. And this is not a Hate on Dirk Thread, Just Pointing out the Obvious.
Yes, because trading your superstar in his prime for 60 cents to the dollar has resulted in a championship sucess immediately. This would set Dallas back at least five years considering that the team is built around Dirk and they have no other players to currently build around and are unlikely to get that kind of player in a trade.

[BrianScalabrine]

This is an outrageous thing to say about a guy who has played so hard for the Mavs through the years, it's not Dirk's fault that they don't have a ring. A player who is at his level and skill leaves it out on the court day in, day out. He is way way too competitive to even entertain that kind of idea. You are out of your element, DuMa.

Word. He didn't get a ring because of David Stern, hater of all Aryan race.

[tian820]

:oldlol: Cuban would give up his entire team than trade Dirk. This is a guy who apparently said no to a Kobe for Dirk straight up deal as recently as last summer. Try telling Cuban that Dirk is the cancer on his team and see what his response would be. And Dirk is still easily a top 10 player impact-wise and talent in the league. The Mavs couldn't get close to equal value for him

[dr8ked]

:oldlol: Cuban would give up his entire team than trade Dirk. This is a guy who apparently said no to a Kobe for Dirk straight up deal as recently as last summer. Try telling Cuban that Dirk is the cancer on his team and see what his response would be. And Dirk is still easily a top 10 player impact-wise and talent in the league. The Mavs couldn't get close to equal value for him



:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: and they Just got Back players they Traded a while ago.. Diop and George.

[bokes15]

:oldlol: Cuban would give up his entire team than trade Dirk. This is a guy who apparently said no to a Kobe for Dirk straight up deal as recently as last summer. Try telling Cuban that Dirk is the cancer on his team and see what his response would be. And Dirk is still easily a top 10 player impact-wise and talent in the league. The Mavs couldn't get close to equal value for him
That may be true in terms of regular season, but as someone else said earlier in this thread, Dirk as the main guy on a team is not gonna win a championship. As a complimentary player he could get it done, but its just not gonna happen with the team, as is. And the only viable trade piece they have outside of Dirk is Josh Howard and they are unwilling to let him go as well.

[Mr Know It All]

Word. He didn't get a ring because of David Stern, hater of all Aryan race.

Also the hater of all loudmouth owners.




Trading Dirk would be retarded, and anyone to suggest that Dirk is a cancer is an idiot. The guy came back a week after a serious ankle sprain, played at 80%, and got them into the playoffs by himself in the tight western conference. If Dallas traded Dirk, all they would have left is the stoner and chucker extraordinaire Howard, a declining Kidd, Jason Terry, and some average role players. They would struggle to get 30 wins in the West.

Kobe said earlier this summer that Gold is more prestigious and in a way more important than an NBA championship, because he was playing for his country. Does that mean he has no heart? Hell no, he busts his ass every single night in the gym and on the court.

[DatZNasty]

Did he list one of his goals as being to figure out how to score on 6'6-6'8 lengthy small forwards?

[tian820]

That may be true in terms of regular season, but as someone else said earlier in this thread, Dirk as the main guy on a team is not gonna win a championship. As a complimentary player he could get it done, but its just not gonna happen with the team, as is. And the only viable trade piece they have outside of Dirk is Josh Howard and they are unwilling to let him go as well.

Dirk as a #1 guy got to the Finals. That was 2 seasons ago. The knock on him is still about his defense, but he's clearly gotten better in that department in the past few seasons and the guy can finish games as a closer. I still think he's a legit #1 guy. The way Dallas surrounds him is with balance and we'll still have to see if the Jason Kidd trade can be salvageable or not. I don't think you can fairly judge how Kidd has done with just the few months he was there. Point guards generally have the toughest time/take the longest time adjusting to a new team. This next season will more telling of how Dallas needs to look toward their future. As of right now, I actually consider Dallas a sleeper in terms of how well they will do because I think this team can still make the 2nd round. People are writing them off too quick. It's true Kidd is in the twilight of his career, but Dirk and Josh Howard (even with all the dumb mistakes he made in the past year) are in their primes and their still a pretty deep team with Terry, Bass, Diop, Dampier, Stackhouse, etc around them

[bokes15]

Dirk as a #1 guy got to the Finals. That was 2 seasons ago. The knock on him is still about his defense, but he's clearly gotten better in that department in the past few seasons and the guy can finish games as a closer. I still think he's a legit #1 guy. The way Dallas surrounds him is with balance and we'll still have to see if the Jason Kidd trade can be salvageable or not. I don't think you can fairly judge how Kidd has done with just the few months he was there. Point guards generally have the toughest time/take the longest time adjusting to a new team. This next season will more telling of how Dallas needs to look toward their future. As of right now, I actually consider Dallas a sleeper in terms of how well they will do because I think this team can still make the 2nd round. People are writing them off too quick. It's true Kidd is in the twilight of his career, but Dirk and Josh Howard (even with all the dumb mistakes he made in the past year) are in their primes and their still a pretty deep team with Terry, Bass, Diop, Dampier, Stackhouse, etc around them
The point of getting J-Kidd was not to make the 2nd round. They've done that several times, and even made the finals as you noted. They brought him in to become a championship contender. So if they made the 2nd round and got eliminated, the season would still be considered a failure IMO. They had their best shot 2 years ago, and now the west is deeper, stronger, more talented and the Mavs haven't gotten significantly better. I don't see them being a real title threat.

[Luigi]

I think he needs to go to another Team, He's the Cancer in Dallas. :confusedshrug:

I really don't think you can call Dirk a cancer.
He has one terrible blemish on his record given to him by the Warriors. Other than that the guy has shown he is clutch, efficient and a great leader. I expect him to have his day in the sun soon. If thing don't work out with Jason Kidd this year, they have enoug money to try to add some significant pieces from the huge free agent market. They get second option and a low post presence and they become title contenders just like that thanks to Dirk.

[dr8ked]

I really don't think you can call Dirk a cancer.
He has one terrible blemish on his record given to him by the Warriors. Other than that the guy has shown he is clutch, efficient and a great leader. I expect him to have his day in the sun soon. If thing don't work out with Jason Kidd this year, they have enoug money to try to add some significant pieces from the huge free agent market. They get second option and a low post presence and they become title contenders just like that thanks to Dirk.


no way Dallas wins a Ring with Dirk as their 1st option, he'll carry them far but he can not get the Job Done, Dirk can be more efficient Playing as the 2nd Option, a situation like what Lakers had when they were winning in 00-02.. Mavericks need another Dominant Player, Otherwise they can start working on the future coz they are not winning anything in the next 5 years and Dirk's age will be showing then.

[bokes15]

no way Dallas wins a Ring with Dirk as their 1st option, he'll carry them far but he can not get the Job Done, Dirk can be more efficient Playing as the 2nd Option, a situation like what Lakers had when they were winning in 00-02.. Mavericks need another Dominant Player, Otherwise they can start working on the future coz they are not winning anything in the next 5 years and Dirk's age will be showing then.
exactly.. and the problem is, their only chance of getting such a player is to trade their 2nd best asset in Josh Howard, which is something they have not been willing to do.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Did he list one of his goals as being to figure out how to score on 6'6-6'8 lengthy small forwards?
Exactly, with his soft serve ass ...

Shook Ones #41

[ruslan]

lol isn't everyones main goal is to win a championship?

[Luigi]

no way Dallas wins a Ring with Dirk as their 1st option, he'll carry them far but he can not get the Job Done, Dirk can be more efficient Playing as the 2nd Option, a situation like what Lakers had when they were winning in 00-02.. Mavericks need another Dominant Player, Otherwise they can start working on the future coz they are not winning anything in the next 5 years and Dirk's age will be showing then.

It won't take 5 years to rebuild if Kidd doesn't work. Like I said earlier, when Kidd expires next summer, they can go after a free agent. The summer after that, Howard and Stackhouse are off the books if they haven't already traded them for something more valueable (2010 expireres are gold to some teams). Then Dirk can opt out and they can resign him with replacements from Kidd, Stackhouse, and Howard. That's enough money to give Dirk something to win with again.

I think Dirk is a great first option. He hits big shots and shoots a high percentage while being in control the entire time. He just needs a team with a post player to mix things up to start the inside-out game (someone like Kaman or Okafor). Then give him a sidekick other than Howard to share the load with (something like Hamilton) and surround him with role players (the Battier/Bowen/Prince type) and you're a contendor again.

[Luigi]

exactly.. and the problem is, their only chance of getting such a player is to trade their 2nd best asset in Josh Howard, which is something they have not been willing to do.

If they don't trade Howard for something else, I also think they are in trouble. Problem is, Howard destroyed his trade value. He is a ball stopper if I have ever seen one. His defense redeems him, but they need a creative shooting guard in his place. Someone who can get where he wants to one the floor and still have the awareness the move the ball.

[CelticForce1349]

That may be true in terms of regular season, but as someone else said earlier in this thread, Dirk as the main guy on a team is not gonna win a championship. As a complimentary player he could get it done, but its just not gonna happen with the team, as is. And the only viable trade piece they have outside of Dirk is Josh Howard and they are unwilling to let him go as well.


And how many star players can win a championship without another star player?


Isn't the general theory in NBA basketball is that it takes a "big 3" to win a Championship, or at least a very dominate group of two stars?

Magic, Kareem, Worthy. Bird, Parrish, McHale. Jordan, Pippen, Rodman. Kobe and prime freaking Shaq is a star group of two that got it done.

So where is Dirk's K.G. and Ray Allen? Where is his T-mac and Artest?


It really does seem like some people just trash the European players as if they are completely inferior to the American Players at times.


Would you doubt Dirk's chance of winning the championship if he played with Allen Iverson and Dwight Howard?

What if he played with Michael Redd and Baron Davis?

[bokes15]

And how many star players can win a championship without another star player?


Isn't the general theory in NBA basketball is that it takes a "big 3" to win a Championship, or at least a very dominate group of two stars?


Dirk has another "star" not a superstar but he has Josh Howard who averaged 20/7 last year. You missed the point. I said that as the MAIN star he wouldn't win a championship, and he hasn't. I'm saying he'd win as a complementary offensive option.


edit: and Dirk, Redd and Davis would not win a championship either.

[tian820]

Dirk has another "star" not a superstar but he has Josh Howard who averaged 20/7 last year. You missed the point. I said that as the MAIN star he wouldn't win a championship, and he hasn't. I'm saying he'd win as a complementary offensive option.


edit: and Dirk, Redd and Davis would not win a championship either.

I mean I guess you could just say if the Mavs hadn't choked it away 2 seasons ago, these talks wouldn't be occurring. Kinda sucks for Dirk, but I guess I kinda have to agree now. Dirk's window is closing. The Mavs don't have as many great players and options to trade as they used to and Cuban's too stubborn a guy to give up on his Howard/Dirk core as someone has pointed out. I guess I do think Dirk's best bet for a ring would be a trade, but I don't think Dirk plays 2nd fiddle on many teams, especially not offensively so I guess that's where I disagree

EDIT: Dirk, Redd, Davis would be horrendous on defense...

[Heretik32]

I think he needs to go to another Team, He's the Cancer in Dallas. :confusedshrug:[/url]

That's like saying Duncan's the reason SA didn't win a title last year:confusedshrug:

[plowking]

lol isn't everyones main goal is to win a championship?

Larry Hughes plays for "fun".

[jamal99]

http://www.vivisect.org/choke/choke_full.gif

http://www.choke.com.au/images/Choke(Black).jpg

[dr8ked]

That's like saying Duncan's the reason SA didn't win a title last year:confusedshrug:


:no: :no: :no: .. Duncan HAS WON NBA CHAMPIONSHIPS. Dirk has none..

[Lebron23]

I want to see Dirk play on my Team, and he's a perfect compliment to LeBron James because of his remarkable outside shooting, and Dirk is the greatest European that ever played in the NBA.

[Jordandunk23]

I can see why people would take the quotes from Dirk the wrong way. He states "my main goal NOW ..." like it was never his main focus. I mean he played hard, you dont go 67 wins and make a finals appearance as the main option without having that goal.

Even though a talented individual, he is somewhat of a soft player. I dont think he is a leader and I dont think he can lead a team to a championship. I think Josh Howard is more reliable overall (even though he has no played well since the Kidd trade). And that was the reason for the Kidd trade, to bring in veteran leadership to run the team even though it didnt work out so well.

[mamba314]

I may be in the minority but I think that Dirk can be the number 1 guy. Sure he has taken some vicious hits (The Golden State fiasco and the series against the Heat) but I think that he's stepped up big time and had some big games for Dallas at crucial times (when he dropped 50 and 11 against the Suns in a crucial game 5 in the Western Conference Finals). I just don't think that they have the right mix around Dirk right now, maybe it would be better for both parties if Dirk left or was traded. I think he gets the soft label cause' he's a Euro...it's the same story in hockey the European players are considered softer than the North American players.

I personally don't think he's any softer than Kevin Garnett...KG just acts out a lot beating his chest and all that foolishness...but when it's time to buck up he's backpeddling.

[dr8ked]

I may be in the minority but I think that Dirk can be the number 1 guy. Sure he has taken some vicious hits (The Golden State fiasco and the series against the Heat) but I think that he's stepped up big time and had some big games for Dallas at crucial times (when he dropped 50 and 11 against the Suns in a crucial game 5 in the Western Conference Finals). I just don't think that they have the right mix around Dirk right now, maybe it would be better for both parties if Dirk left or was traded. I think he gets the soft label cause' he's a Euro...it's the same story in hockey the European players are considered softer than the North American players.

I personally don't think he's any softer than Kevin Garnett...KG just acts out a lot beating his chest and all that foolishness...but when it's time to buck up he's backpeddling.

GARNETT WAS IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT, HE COULD NOT LEAD A TEAM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP RING AS THE NUMBER ONE OPTION EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE THOUGHT HE COULD. SEE HOW EFFECTIVE HE WAS IN BOSTON LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS NOT THE 1ST OPTION. I THINK DIRK IS IN THE SAME BOAT.

[snipes12]

add ai to the mavs line up

[23airjordan23]

Imagine what dallas could get for dirk if they trade wisely ... i reckon they could be great if they pick up 2 solid players

[mamba314]

GARNETT WAS IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT, HE COULD NOT LEAD A TEAM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP RING AS THE NUMBER ONE OPTION EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE THOUGHT HE COULD. SEE HOW EFFECTIVE HE WAS IN BOSTON LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS NOT THE 1ST OPTION. I THINK DIRK IS IN THE SAME BOAT.
I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment...put Dirk with another star player and that's a dangerous team. Not to say that Josh Howard and Jason Terry are chopped live but I think that trio has had it's run and the year they lost to the Heat in finals was their year to win it with this core. They cannot get past Los Angeles, New Orleans, San Antonio, Houston, or Utah with this current roster...I think it's best for both Dirk and the Mavs to part ways IMO.

[Sharas]

dirk did came closer to winning it all as unquestioned no.1 option than many, many guys who are considered "tough" and "clutch".

i seriously think he's became quite underrated now.

[bokes15]

I can see why people would take the quotes from Dirk the wrong way. He states "my main goal NOW ..." like it was never his main focus. I mean he played hard, you dont go 67 wins and make a finals appearance as the main option without having that goal.

Even though a talented individual, he is somewhat of a soft player. I dont think he is a leader and I dont think he can lead a team to a championship. I think Josh Howard is more reliable overall (even though he has no played well since the Kidd trade). And that was the reason for the Kidd trade, to bring in veteran leadership to run the team even though it didnt work out so well.
That's because, while Kidd is a great leader, that's not what they needed. Mark Cuban stupidly picked up Kidd with their 2007 loss to the Warriors in mind. And they indeed had a team that could've now beaten that team, however their best bet would've been to either emulate what the Lakers had done, or else keep their current team in tact if nothing better was available.

[ihatetimthomas]

GARNETT WAS IN THE SAME PREDICAMENT, HE COULD NOT LEAD A TEAM TO A CHAMPIONSHIP RING AS THE NUMBER ONE OPTION EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE THOUGHT HE COULD. SEE HOW EFFECTIVE HE WAS IN BOSTON LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS NOT THE 1ST OPTION. I THINK DIRK IS IN THE SAME BOAT.

Agreed. Dirk could use another superstar where he can play off him. The problem in Dallas is that no one really is that much of a threat except Dirk and sometimes Howard. No inside presence whatsoever. That team is just not constructed well at this point. They really have always needed a real post player to play inside outside with Dirk.

Dirk is one of my favorite players. People dont understand the work ethic this guy has and the toughness he has. Remember last year when he sparained his ankle and tweaked his knee at the same time? Yea I think he missed likt one or 2 games. He has heart, and it unfortunate that the Mavs choked the title away. But a change of scenery could re-amp his career bc the clock is ticking

[ihatetimthomas]

Even though a talented individual, he is somewhat of a soft player. I dont think he is a leader and I dont think he can lead a team to a championship. I think Josh Howard is more reliable overall (even though he has no played well since the Kidd trade). And that was the reason for the Kidd trade, to bring in veteran leadership to run the team even though it didnt work out so well.

Are you kidding? Josh Howard more reliable? Dirk is pretty consistent, and Howard at times dissappears on the court. The problem is that his wing man in Howard is not enough to put them over the edge.

And please define soft. Bc he is more of an outside player? he has improved upon his inside game. I would not say he is soft at all. He is very tough and you can see that in his durability. He isnt afraid of contact like he was easlier in his career. He has one of the best work ethic in the league.

[305Baller]

Miami Heat:
Marion and Haslem for Dirk Nowitzki?

I dont know if that is an upgrade or not though. Might struggle defensively without Marion.

[ihatetimthomas]

Miami Heat:
Marion and Haslem for Dirk Nowitzki?

I dont know if that is an upgrade or not though. Might struggle defensively without Marion.

If you are the Heat, you do that trade in a second

[Mamba]

so what was his goal before playing in the NBA?

getting hit harder by the ugly stick?

or develop a gay relationship with nash?

[bokes15]

If you are the Heat, you do that trade in a second
It'd take more than Haslem and Marion for Cuban to let go of his prized possession.

[ihatetimthomas]

It'd take more than Haslem and Marion for Cuban to let go of his prized possession.

Oh yea I know that, I was speaking in terms of the Heat. If they were ever offered that, in a heartbeat they take it. But Cuban would never allow that to happen

[Sneakerpro]

Dirk has another "star" not a superstar but he has Josh Howard who averaged 20/7 last year. You missed the point. I said that as the MAIN star he wouldn't win a championship, and he hasn't. I'm saying he'd win as a complementary offensive option.


edit: and Dirk, Redd and Davis would not win a championship either.

Are you talking about the Josh Howard that shot 25% for the playoffs and only averaged 12 points a game?

There isn't a player in the NBA that would win with him as his second option.

[bokes15]

Are you talking about the Josh Howard that shot 25% for the playoffs and only averaged 12 points a game?

There isn't a player in the NBA that would win with him as his second option.
So are you trying to say that Dirk made the Finals 100% by his own skills? How convenient of you to only mention last year, Josh Howard's worst playoff appearance since his rookie season. The previous season vs. the warriors he averaged 21 and 10 on .515 shooting while Dirk averaged 19.7 and 11 on .383 and .211 from 3.

[Sneakerpro]

So are you trying to say that Dirk made the Finals 100% by his own skills? How convenient of you to only mention last year, Josh Howard's worst playoff appearance since his rookie season. The previous season vs. the warriors he averaged 21 and 10 on .515 shooting while Dirk averaged 19.7 and 11 on .383 and .211 from 3.

Josh Howard doesn't score in the second half of games period.

The reason the Mavs went to the Finals in 2006 is because Jason Terry and Dirk played out of their minds. People don't realize how good Jason Terry was during that run. Josh Howard was the third option. IMO the reason the Mavs lost the Finals outside of the officiating was JET going cold.

Josh Howard doesn't score in the second half of games.(I repeated myself for emphasis.)

Josh Howard is a third option talent level player that has nice stats because he gets to shoot a lot and has played on a team with a lot of talent. Everytime he sees anything resembling a double team its a wrap.

You couple this with his antics off court and dude needs to be gone period.

[bokes15]

Josh Howard doesn't score in the second half of games period.

The reason the Mavs went to the Finals in 2006 is because Jason Terry and Dirk played out of their minds. People don't realize how good Jason Terry was during that run. Josh Howard was the third option. IMO the reason the Mavs lost the Finals outside of the officiating was JET going cold.

Josh Howard doesn't score in the second half of games.(I repeated myself for emphasis.)

Josh Howard is a third option talent level player that has nice stats because he gets to shoot a lot and has played on a team with a lot of talent. Everytime he sees anything resembling a double team its a wrap.

You couple this with his antics off court and dude needs to be gone period.

Neither Terry nor Howard are legit second options offensively. Terry doesn't create his own scoring opportunities but rather takes spot up 3's and does a good job at running the floor and getting layups. So, I agree that Howard is not the guy who is needed to take the Mavs to a championship level, but I disagree in you devaluing the impact Howard has had on this team. His defense, rebounding, shot making, and consistency (for the most part) has been a big part of the continued success of this team, even though they don't have a championship.

[ihatetimthomas]

Neither Terry nor Howard are legit second options offensively. Terry doesn't create his own scoring opportunities but rather takes spot up 3's and does a good job at running the floor and getting layups. So, I agree that Howard is not the guy who is needed to take the Mavs to a championship level, but I disagree in you devaluing the impact Howard has had on this team. His defense, rebounding, shot making, and consistency (for the most part) has been a big part of the continued success of this team, even though they don't have a championship.

I dont think Howard is a bad player, but I dont think he is enough for them to ever go back to the finals. He tends to disappear from time to time most notocably in the playoffs. He would be a great 3rd option bc he does a little of everything. But Dirk def. needs an ugrade on that 2nd option

[Showtime09]

I think Dirk is fine as a number one option and that its the Mavericks front office that needs major upgrades. Signing Dampier AND Diop to long term ridiculous contracts. Trading Devin Harris, a young and upcoming point guard and TWO first round draft picks for an over the hill Jason Kidd. Letting Steve Nash walk and releasing Michael Finley (he still had a little left in the tank).

What happened to the Mavericks of old when they were constantly wheeling and dealing?

[Jordandunk23]

Are you kidding? Josh Howard more reliable? Dirk is pretty consistent, and Howard at times dissappears on the court. The problem is that his wing man in Howard is not enough to put them over the edge.

And please define soft. Bc he is more of an outside player? he has improved upon his inside game. I would not say he is soft at all. He is very tough and you can see that in his durability. He isnt afraid of contact like he was easlier in his career. He has one of the best work ethic in the league.

Look Dirk and Howard together arent enough to put them over the edge. thats why they traded their future pg away for Kidd. Josh Howard is up and coming and has the potential to have the edge over Dirk. But doesnt mean I think Josh could lead them to a championship. Look Dirk is a shooter and he does it well but if you shut that down he doesnt have anything else. its not more on Josh that I think he more reliable, its more of a lack of trust on Nowitzki's side.

He is soft . yes he has gotten better physically over the years, he is still a 7 footer that gets slapped around by David West. hey its not like im underrating the guy, hes one of the top forwards in the game but he is soft and you cannot put the trust on his back to lead a team. Mark Cuban knows that even though he wont admit it, and i think you understand what im trying to say admit it or not.

[ihatetimthomas]

Look Dirk and Howard together arent enough to put them over the edge. thats why they traded their future pg away for Kidd. Josh Howard is up and coming and has the potential to have the edge over Dirk. But doesnt mean I think Josh could lead them to a championship. Look Dirk is a shooter and he does it well but if you shut that down he doesnt have anything else. its not more on Josh that I think he more reliable, its more of a lack of trust on Nowitzki's side.

Thats your opinion and I respect that. I agree they wanted to sign Kidd to put them over the edge and allow them to contend. But Josh Howard is not up and coming and his potential is what he is right now. Usually 28 year olds dont improve much. But i just cant agree with you that Howard has the edge over Dirk. I think Howard is a nice player, pretty versatile. But he is a role player in my eyes. And I just dont think he is as consistent and reliable as you say. During their playoff run when they lost to the Heat, Howard was not consistent the entire playoffs. It was Dirk who got them there. Dirk is tough to defend and only few players can really contain him. he can shoot over anyone. And his passing is underrated as well.


He is soft . yes he has gotten better physically over the years, he is still a 7 footer that gets slapped around by David West. hey its not like im underrating the guy, hes one of the top forwards in the game but he is soft and you cannot put the trust on his back to lead a team. Mark Cuban knows that even though he wont admit it, and i think you understand what im trying to say admit it or not.

I guess my definition of soft is different than yours. I am saying he is not soft in the sense he is tough, works hard, works to improve his game, and is durable. He rarely takes games off and came back from injuries last season. All while playing for Germany in the summer. He is not afraid of contact either. I never said he was capable of being the man for a title team, if you read earlier posts, I said I agreed w/ someone saying he could win a title playing a KG role with the Celtics where he still very valuable, but not the most valuable on the team. I was just objecting against you that Howard is more reliable. You made some valid points, I just dont see eye to eye on some of them.

[Jordandunk23]

Thats your opinion and I respect that. I agree they wanted to sign Kidd to put them over the edge and allow them to contend. But Josh Howard is not up and coming and his potential is what he is right now. Usually 28 year olds dont improve much. But i just cant agree with you that Howard has the edge over Dirk. I think Howard is a nice player, pretty versatile. But he is a role player in my eyes. And I just dont think he is as consistent and reliable as you say. During their playoff run when they lost to the Heat, Howard was not consistent the entire playoffs. It was Dirk who got them there. Dirk is tough to defend and only few players can really contain him. he can shoot over anyone. And his passing is underrated as well.



I guess my definition of soft is different than yours. I am saying he is not soft in the sense he is tough, works hard, works to improve his game, and is durable. He rarely takes games off and came back from injuries last season. All while playing for Germany in the summer. He is not afraid of contact either. I never said he was capable of being the man for a title team, if you read earlier posts, I said I agreed w/ someone saying he could win a title playing a KG role with the Celtics where he still very valuable, but not the most valuable on the team. I was just objecting against you that Howard is more reliable. You made some valid points, I just dont see eye to eye on some of them.

ok yeah i can agree with that. i see what your saying...

[Sneakerpro]

Look Dirk and Howard together arent enough to put them over the edge. thats why they traded their future pg away for Kidd. Josh Howard is up and coming and has the potential to have the edge over Dirk. But doesnt mean I think Josh could lead them to a championship. Look Dirk is a shooter and he does it well but if you shut that down he doesnt have anything else. its not more on Josh that I think he more reliable, its more of a lack of trust on Nowitzki's side.

He is soft . yes he has gotten better physically over the years, he is still a 7 footer that gets slapped around by David West. hey its not like im underrating the guy, hes one of the top forwards in the game but he is soft and you cannot put the trust on his back to lead a team. Mark Cuban knows that even though he wont admit it, and i think you understand what im trying to say admit it or not.

Who in the NBA can you trust to put the team on their back lead a team then?

I'm curious.

[tian820]

Who in the NBA can you trust to put the team on their back lead a team then?

I'm curious.

Don't know if this is a general question, but Dirk would be on my short list.

Others include Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Paul and maybe Wade. Past those guys as of right now, I wouldn't really "trust" anyone in particular

[AllenIverson3]

you had ur chance Nowitzki

[bettalaylow]

he should join one of these teams then:

lakers, celtics, rockets,...

The Rockets that haven't dont jack so why mention them is beyond me. Dirk has a better chance of winning in Dallas then he ever would in Houston. Particularly with the plague aka Tracy McGrady roaming that arena.

[haterofhaters]

Who in the NBA can you trust to put the team on their back lead a team then?

I'm curious.
As has been pointed out, nobody is gonna win a championship single handedly, no matter how good you are. In terms of who i'd use as a building block (assuming prime),

my list would be:
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron
Garnett
Wade
Duncan

[Jordandunk23]

Who in the NBA can you trust to put the team on their back lead a team then?

I'm curious.

Personally I think Dirk would be better off as a second option. and by looking at the past championships ill give examples

08 - Celtics KG was the defensive statue and majorly affected the whole team. and Pierce carried the offensive load (reason why many believes he was previously uderrated)

Kobe, i know they lost but i still believe Kobe can lead this Laker team.

I think Chris Paul can lead his team. He is not surrounded by the best talent but he makes his teammates better. Hornets would struggle to be a playoff team with CP3.

07 - Spurs Duncan has been leading this team for years i know i dont have to explain that. Parker won MVP however in this case.

06 - you could say all the stuff about Shaq and im not taking anything away from him but if you watched the game, Wade was heroic in CARRYING miami.

For years there has been that special guy. of course you have to surround him with talent but that guy made it happen (outside the 04 pistons). History shows it. And IMO i dont think Dirk can.

[Sneakerpro]

As has been pointed out, nobody is gonna win a championship single handedly, no matter how good you are. In terms of who i'd use as a building block (assuming prime),

my list would be:
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron
Garnett
Wade
Duncan


Duncan, Shaq, and maybe Wade are the only players that have proven themselves to lead a team to anything more than Dirk.


Real talk what has Kobe led a team to?

His last two Finals trips are on an all team level of embarrassing.

Why is it that Kobe plays like ass and chokes the last two times he went to the Finals and he can still lead a team?

He wasn't even the first option in 2004 and still played like ass but people poo poo it like its nothing.

[haterofhaters]

Duncan, Shaq, and maybe Wade are the only players that have proven themselves to lead a team to anything more than Dirk.
Real talk what has Kobe led a team to?

His last two Finals trips are on an all team level of embarrassing.

Why is it that Kobe plays like ass and chokes the last two times he went to the Finals and he can still lead a team?

He wasn't even the first option in 2004 and still played like ass but people poo poo it like its nothing.

There are very, emphasis on VERY few players in this league who, as key guys, ever lead their team to a championship. However, just because Dirk shares with some other stars that he hasn't led a team to a championship, doesn't mean that they are all on the same level.

Kobe and Lebron both ran into top defensive teams in the Finals who converged on them, and made it so the rest of the team had to beat them. Lebron's team wasn't very good, Kobe's team was pretty good, but they would've had to overachieve to win that series.

Dirk on the other hand was taken out as the #1 seed against a lesser Golden State team, while being guarded by Stephen Jackson, then was taken out by an inexperienced NOH team and punked by David West, and before that he was a main factor in blowing a 2-0 lead to an underdog Heat team that was on the ropes.

Dirk will always have the ability to put up big numbers, but he's not mentally tough enough and he often fades when his team needs him the most. That's why i'd take Kobe or Lebron over him in that regard.

[AItheAnswer3]

you had ur chance Nowitzki

& how does that matter..If thats the case, Allen Iverson had his chance as well.

[ihatetimthomas]

& how does that matter..If thats the case, Allen Iverson had his chance as well.

eh, Iverson never had a chance in the finals so its not really a blown oppurtunity.

[AItheAnswer3]

eh, Iverson never had a chance in the finals so its not really a blown oppurtunity.

I know Iverson & the sixers never had a chance in winning that series..But saying Dirk is not deserving is not true

[haterofhaters]

eh, Iverson never had a chance in the finals so its not really a blown oppurtunity.
exactly.

The Mavs had the upper hand. They were a 60 win team coming in, and had a head of steam coming off wins over the Spurs, and Suns. The Heat were a good team, but they were overmatched from an on-paper standpoint. Dwayne Wade just proved to be the more clutch/dependable player when the chips were down.

The Sixers on the other hand were severely outmatched and taking 1 game was a surprise in itself.

[Thom.Yorke]

tell dirk to come to the lakers for a small paycut and he'll have a ring. the next season.

LA wants you Dirk. do it.

[Sneakerpro]

There are very, emphasis on VERY few players in this league who, as key guys, ever lead their team to a championship. However, just because Dirk shares with some other stars that he hasn't led a team to a championship, doesn't mean that they are all on the same level.

Kobe and Lebron both ran into top defensive teams in the Finals who converged on them, and made it so the rest of the team had to beat them. Lebron's team wasn't very good, Kobe's team was pretty good, but they would've had to overachieve to win that series.

Dirk on the other hand was taken out as the #1 seed against a lesser Golden State team, while being guarded by Stephen Jackson, then was taken out by an inexperienced NOH team and punked by David West, and before that he was a main factor in blowing a 2-0 lead to an underdog Heat team that was on the ropes.

Dirk will always have the ability to put up big numbers, but he's not mentally tough enough and he often fades when his team needs him the most. That's why i'd take Kobe or Lebron over him in that regard.


Kobe's team was the hands down favorite to win the series by every sports publication in the world and Vegas.

The Miami Heat man for man had a better team than the Dallas Mavericks that year. People severly underrated how good that Miami Heat team was. Its not like they didn't beat a 60+ win Pistons team en route to the Finals. Alonzo Mourining and James Posey were bench players for that team and they would start on the Mavs right now and then.

New Orleans was just flat out beter than Dallas they had a better team a better record and outside of Dirk NOBODY showed up game to game. Even bringing that up is a horrible argument. Kobe got choke slammed by Raja Bell and didn't do anything except damn near not score in Game 7 and pull off yet another one of his historical level playoff collapses.

I will say this though, there is no excuse or argument about what happened versus Golden State.

[Hawker]

so dirk's been sayin all along in the past that hes been holding something back in the tank so he can get germany to the olympics... so he doesnt go all out for dallas during the season/playoffs.

thats what this message sounds like to me.

No, you try and find a negative way to spin anything about dirk b/c you are stupid hater.

[haterofhaters]

Kobe's team was the hands down favorite to win the series by every sports publication in the world and Vegas.

The Miami Heat man for man had a better team than the Dallas Mavericks that year. People severly underrated how good that Miami Heat team was. Its not like they didn't beat a 60+ win Pistons team en route to the Finals. Alonzo Mourining and James Posey were bench players for that team and they would start on the Mavs right now and then.

New Orleans was just flat out beter than Dallas they had a better team a better record and outside of Dirk NOBODY showed up game to game. Even bringing that up is a horrible argument. Kobe got choke slammed by Raja Bell and didn't do anything except damn near not score in Game 7 and pull off yet another one of his historical level playoff collapses.

I will say this though, there is no excuse or argument about what happened versus Golden State.
And you know why the Lakers were picked by most? They believed that Kobe Bryant, himself, was >>>> the difference in overall talent levels between the two teams, which was proved incorrect.

In regards to the Lakers Suns series of a few years back, Kobe was showing some immaturity IMO. It seemed like he wanted to prove that his teammates couldn't do anything without him so he had reason to be selfish. He had a bad attitude, but has grown up a lot since then. And even though they were beaten in 6 in the finals, i'd still take Kobe on my team over Dirk, and I think any sane person would.

[kentatm]

25 games? Don't be ridiculous.. He's good, but this isn't exactly a bad team without him. They obviously wouldn't have won 50+ games but they'd still probably be a 40 win team.

no way in hell playing out West.

think of it this way, Kidd, Carter and Jefferson couldn't ever do anything in the East and thats a better core than an older Kidd, Terry and Josh Howard.

[Glo41]

Josh Howard doesn't score in the second half of games period.

The reason the Mavs went to the Finals in 2006 is because Jason Terry and Dirk played out of their minds. People don't realize how good Jason Terry was during that run. Josh Howard was the third option. IMO the reason the Mavs lost the Finals outside of the officiating was JET going cold.

Josh Howard doesn't score in the second half of games.(I repeated myself for emphasis.)

Josh Howard is a third option talent level player that has nice stats because he gets to shoot a lot and has played on a team with a lot of talent. Everytime he sees anything resembling a double team its a wrap.

You couple this with his antics off court and dude needs to be gone period.

Other than you just trying to banish Josh Howard, I fully agree this post.

Some people are really underrating Dirk here and overrating Josh Howard. Not saying Josh sucks and all, but he almost completely disappears in the 2nd half of games. I would love him as the 3rd option but him being a legit 2nd option like some have said is a joke. I question if some people have watched the game and not just the boxscore.

Truth be told, if this year we get eliminated in the 1st round again, and as much as I hate to admit it, we might have to trade Dirk for the future. If it were up to me though, I'd rather he stay with the Mavs and retire as one.

[Lebron23]

Trade Josh Howard to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

[Silverbullit]

Trade Josh Howard to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

...and send LeBron to Dallas? :D

[AItheAnswer3]

http://www.choke.com.au/images/Choke(Black).jpg

Dirk's fav drink :cheers:

[dr8ked]

they fired avery johnson coz Dirk and josh were gonna leave the team. they even tuned down kobe foro dirk and josh trade. :banghead:


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/093008dnspomavsbriefs.19d9897.html

[Hoggle]

its to bad this wasnt his main goal 3 seasons ago...

[Random_Guy]

Bump

[crisoner]

If that is he goal now....what was it before?

[Shade8780]

Epic bump :applause: :applause:

[Mrofir]

Originally Posted by Jordandunk23

Even though a talented individual, he is somewhat of a soft player. I dont think he is a leader and I dont think he can lead a team to a championship. I think Josh Howard is more reliable overall (even though he has no played well since the Kidd trade). And that was the reason for the Kidd trade, to bring in veteran leadership to run the team even though it didnt work out so well.


BWHAHAahhahahaha

[dh144498]

Trade Josh Howard to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

back when you were a Cavs fan. :lol

[ILLsmak]

back when you were a Cavs fan. :lol

lol...

why do people bump these threads tho? The people who made them already know they said that dumb shit.

-Smak

[Bandito]

If that is he goal now....what was it before?
Get Rich or Die Trying!