The Official 2nd Presidential Debate Thread - 10/7/08

[bagelred]

The 2nd Presidential Debate is Tuesday night, 9 PM EST. It is a town hall format. (Prescreened questions from actual voters)

Let's put all your Pre, during, and Post debate comments here.

Can McCain change the current trend? What is McCain going to try?

[gigantes]

mister independent voter here again.

i'm slightly discouraged about how the campaign has turned to attacks on the character and record of each candidate from the other.

i understand that mccain has no choice but to try this, but somehow i kind of hoped that obama would not stoop to responding. but i also worry that some independent voters will take seriously palin's ridiculous claims about obama cavorting with terrorists.

it's already unfortunate enough that obama has a muslim name and is black because of the number of paranoid and racist voters who will automatically vote against him for those things. then again, mccain is very old and somewhat crippled and that may unfairly influence voters also. *shrug*

[embersyc]

Why bother with another debate? If you can't tell the difference between these too yet one more night of hearing the same tired-ass rehashed lines isn't going to help you.

[Hawker]

Another debate, another time for bullsh!t to spew from each of the candidate's mouth.

[knickballer]

Obama!

[bagelred]

Why bother with another debate? If you can't tell the difference between these too yet one more night of hearing the same tired-ass rehashed lines isn't going to help you.

It gives all of McCain's supporters a chance to get re-Maverickitized.

[bagelred]

12 hours to debate time.

[Mamba]

if mccain wins i sure hope they keep him healthy. palin seems half as dumb as bush. and bush seems like a monkey half the time.

[rufuspaul]

if mccain wins i sure hope they keep him healthy. palin seems half as dumb as bush. and bush seems like a monkey half the time.

Would that make Palin 1/4 of a monkey?

[ManlyStanley69]

Yes. 1/4 monkey, 3/4 MAVERICK

[rufuspaul]

Maverick Monkey

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/zm_zoomin_4_3.jpg

[bagelred]

Would that make Palin 1/4 of a monkey?


McCain/Monkey 2008

[bada bing]

Palin makes George Bush look like Obama....

[SoCalMike]

I am sure McCain will be on good behavior and limit the personal attacks in a national forum like the debate... he will do it and his attack dogs while on the campaign trail and in the media....


:pimp:

[crisoner]

Lets get that TKO tonight Obama!!!!

:rockon:

Show no mercy to the GOP!!!!!!!!!!!!



Down Down Down.....McBush s going down!!! :rockon:

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

McCain!

[Denali]

it's already unfortunate enough that obama has a muslim name and is black because of the number of paranoid and racist voters who will automatically vote against him for those things.


more than cancelled out by the number of people who are voting FOR obama strictly BECAUSE he is black. (blacks, college liberals, etc.)

[mlh1981]

Gonna be the same tired lines by both parties. People pretty much know where they stand on the issues. I doubt that there will be any surprises. Obama is up in the polls, so he will play it close to the vest so he won't possibly offend anyone. McCain will take a beating if he starts to personally attack Obama. Like another poster said, that sort of politicking is going on on the campaign trail, not on the national news in a debate.

[picc84]

Considering the relevant demographics, anyone with whom Obama's race is a positive influence and who are voting for Obama primarily because he is black, would probably be much more likely to vote for a democratic nominee anyway if forced to choose between two white men. Obama's skin color i'd imagine is mostly just pulling votes from previously unregistered democrats (mostly blacks). I doubt there are many deadset republicans who are completely flipping their votes just b/c he is black.

On the flip, there are plenty of white democrats who won't vote for him just for that factor.

[Denali]

Considering the relevant demographics, anyone with whom Obama's race is a positive influence and who are voting for Obama primarily because he is black, would probably be much more likely to vote for a democratic nominee anyway.

true.

just goes to show that the majority of americans - from both sides of the aisle - vote for an ideology and not a leader

[bagelred]

Because of the collapse on Wall Street, Obama and McCain will be taking questions from people wearing barrels.

[gigantes]

more than cancelled out by the number of people who are voting FOR obama strictly BECAUSE he is black. (blacks, college liberals, etc.)
first of all, i doubt that the racism and xenophobia is more than cancelled out by kneejerk black voters. black people are still a minority, after all.

second, i doubt that many liberals would vote for obama BECAUSE he is black. the two things don't necessarily have anything to do with each other and i have little idea why you would make such a silly claim.

[bagelred]

xenophobia

Somebody's been using his word a day calendar.

[gigantes]

Somebody's been using his word a day calendar.
or i simply paid attention in seventh grade english.

[bagelred]

or i simply paid attention in seventh grade english.

Nah.....word a day calendar......

I know alot of phobias, but didn't know that one. Had to look it up.

[gigantes]

Nah.....word a day calendar......

I know alot of phobias, but didn't know that one. Had to look it up.
not knowing the word yourself i can understand why you can't conceive of anyone else knowing it either.

[bagelred]

not knowing the word yourself i can understand why you can't conceive of anyone else knowing it either.

Exactly.

[gigantes]

well, don't feel bad. when you see words you don't understand, like xenophobia, try to break them into their constituents- you can often figure out their meaning that way.

for example, you already knew what "phobia" meant. "xeno" is obviously greek, and when you find out that "xenos" means "stranger" you can pretty-much figure out what the two together would mean without your little word-a-day calendar or whatever you have there.

[Denali]

for example, you already knew what "phobia" meant. "xeno" is obviously greek, and when you find out that "xenos" means "stranger" you can pretty-much figure out what the two together would mean without your little word-a-day calendar or whatever you have there.


i have determined that roughly translated, it means "fear of the warrior princess"

how close am i?

[bagelred]

well, don't feel bad. when you see words you don't understand, like xenophobia, try to break them into their constituents- you can often figure out their meaning that way.

for example, you already knew what "phobia" meant. "xeno" is obviously greek, and when you find out that "xenos" means "stranger" you can pretty-much figure out what the two together would mean without your little word-a-day calendar or whatever you have there.

I have Gigantephobia.

[bagelred]

1/2 hour to debate time.

We need a nice controversial moment to make it worth watching.

[Denali]

We need a nice controversial moment to make it worth watching.

barrack obama sees an america where nobody is rich, everyone is gay, and radicals receive safe harbor and appeasement.

:hammertime:

[Denali]

what a dumb question


"hey, how can we fix the economy?"

lol

like its just that easy

[Denali]

mccain substance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obama substance

[ElKuKuy]

Obama's smart.He's working the middle class.

That's probaly the majority of us in here.

[Denali]

obama was just about to condemn washington spending in his answer, before he remembered that he's for it so he quickly re-routed his sentence .

nice.

[Denali]

"senator obama has never taken on the leaders of his party on major issues"


connects with a haymaker

[bigkingsfan]

I miss Palin already :(

[stewen12]

McCain is a racist!

[D.J.]

McCain is trying to make it sound like we're his friends. This is one reason why I hate politicians. They talk to you like they're your buddy or your pal, and they end up stabbing you in the back by not helping us.

[Denali]

in a time of an incredible credit crunch, obama compares his own spending policies to that of a mission to the moon


:rockon:

[Denali]

obama is always trying to get the last word and interrupt and get defensive.

mccain is just really outclassing him in these debates

[statman32]

Obama looks bad at there. Losing the grip he had on the election as we speak.

[SoCalMike]

Obama looks bad at there. Losing the grip he had on the election as we speak.

LMAO... freaking brilliant.



:pimp:

[Denali]

Obama looks bad at there. Losing the grip he had on the election as we speak.


sadly, its not gonna change most people's minds.

mccain is suffering the "tv effect"

people dont hear the mccain substance, they see the obama youth and good looks, and thats what they think makes the better president. mccain looks like an old hunchback midget. he doesnt look tall and majestic like obama. and unfortunately that affects perception

its like when fans in the NFL always want to draft a "new young franchise face" at quarterback. they think that youth/looks can just turn the fortune of establishment around. "that guy looks good, he must be the savior!"

tsk tsk

[IlliniFan]

People see what they want to see. Hence Denali's (who should never be taken seriously anyway) and Statman's comments.

[D.J.]

As I said, I'm not a fan of either candidate. However, I find it extremely disturbing that McCain keeps referring to us as his friends.

[Denali]

As I said, I'm not a fan of either candidate. However, I find it extremely disturbing that McCain keeps referring to us as his friends.

the fact that you find that "extremely disturbing" would indicate that you most likely are not impartial the way you claim

[SoCalMike]

the fact that you find that "extremely disturbing" would indicate that you most likely are not impartial the way you claim

non sequitur....



:pimp:

[D.J.]

the fact that you find that "extremely disturbing" would indicate that you most likely are not impartial the way you claim


I am impartial, but the man refers to us as his friends and you can tell by the look on his face that he doesn't mean it. At least Obama comes across as somewhat sincere.

[statman32]

I am impartial, but the man refers to us as his friends and you can tell by the look on his face that he doesn't mean it. At least Obama comes across as somewhat sincere.
What's your other username? Or do you want to pretend you are a new poster?

[Denali]

I am impartial, but the man refers to us as his friends and you can tell by the look on his face that he doesn't mean it. At least Obama comes across as somewhat sincere.


this goes back to my point i just made 10 seconds ago.

guys like this guy are worried about the expression on the candidates face rather than the points they're making, and will subsequently vote that way. pathetic.

[D.J.]

What's your other username? Or do you want to pretend you are a new poster?


I'm a new poster. I joined a few days ago.

[IlliniFan]

Neither one is answering the questions being asked. It's really annoying.

[kentatm]

whoa. um, why the hell would I want my health records online? wtf JMac?

[SoCalMike]

Neither one is answering the questions being asked. It's really annoying.

Thats the game of debates today and the moderators do not hold them accountable.

So, they avoid the full answers and just attack their opponents....



:pimp:

[bballer]

Neither one is answering the questions being asked. It's really annoying.
agreed and they are just rambling. soo boring

[SoCalMike]

whoa. um, why the hell would I want my health records online? wtf JMac?

Actually, both candidates said that, except that McCain said it the wrong way... basically what they want is electronic medical records that are governed in a universal format... So, every time you go to the doctor, you don't have to repeat all the forms over and over again. It can be a real pain in the butt, so its a good thing.



:pimp:

[bballer]

healthcare is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT

[kentatm]

Actually, both candidates said that, except that McCain said it the wrong way... basically what they want is electronic medical records that are governed in a universal format... So, every time you go to the doctor, you don't have to repeat all the forms over and over again. It can be a real pain in the butt, so its a good thing.



:pimp:


thing is, they cant keep people from poking around in our passport information.

oh well.

this is some crappy moderating. if they are going on too long just cut them off man.

[mell-0]

http://www.slyfoxfilms.com/elements/ani-logo.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yydpWtjqa8&feature=related


This debate is pointless.

[Denali]

obama is a young, inexperienced, big-talking idealistic fan favorite who got hoisted up by the crowd and pushed to the front to stand up at the podium and sing maxims of change and hope and all the things people want to hear.

mccain has been doing this a long time and knows how foreign policy works, he knows how legislating works, he understands the principles of government and he is REALISTIC.

if you want steady, solid substance, vote mccain.

if you want to hear about change, idealism, hope, new america, yes we can, and a whole bunch of other stuff that are not even remotely substantive policy platforms, then vote obama. but voting obama is like putting something on credit. yeah, you're enjoying the wave of his speaking and his preaching and his hope right now, but when he goes to put all these policies in place, the bubble is gonna burst because the totality of these policies just wont add up to be plausible. but hey, they sound good. they're great in an ideal world, right? so lets just ignore reality, be undisciplined, lack a realistic point of view, and vote for barrack hussein obama bin laden.

[Jimmy2k8]

McCain looks horrible out there.

[ForceOfNature]

People see what they want to see. Hence Denali's (who should never be taken seriously anyway) and Statman's comments.
Exactly. That's why in these threads, it's usually liberals complimenting Obama/Biden and the conservatives complimenting McCain/Palin.

[InspiredLebowski]

This debate sucks. Spread these things much farther out along the campaigns. It's just non-answers and repeating of the talking points we've heard for months.

[kentatm]

no follow up questions is a stupid ass rule.

[InspiredLebowski]

no follow up questions is a stupid ass rule.

No kidding. "Here's the topic, state your talking points. Don't worry about responding to criticism from your opponent."

[DeuceWallaces]

This debate won't change anything. They're just saying the same things they've been saying. Anyone thinking someone is winning or losing this debate is an idiot.

[bagelred]

healthcare is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT

Funny.....most other democracies believe otherwise........ and the people seem to like it.

[mell-0]

Obama using Osama as an excuse to invade Pakistan?

[kentatm]

that was very interesting when Obama took charge with the follow up. McCain looked pissed with that death glare he was giving him. He sounded a tad whiny asking for equal time to me.

[mell-0]

McCain: Vladamir Putin = KGB

[bballer]

wow. its a yes or no question. they are going off ramblin again

[Denali]

that was very interesting when Obama took charge with the follow up. McCain looked pissed with that death glare he was giving him. He sounded a tad whiny asking for equal time to me.


each candidate has been alotted 1 response to each answer. that is the rules of the debate.

obama has tried to jump in and get the last word every time, to the point where he had to actually started begging for follow ups because mccain was making good points that obama was desperate to spin or attempt to discredit. thats pretty immature and shows a lack of class and discipline.

but all you saw was mccain being whiney because he wanted the debate to be conducted on equal terms?

:hammerhead:

[kentatm]

b/c it should be assumed they will get equal time.

its not like Brokaw has been stopping them when they go over either.

and Mac isnt making good points. This has all been practically word for word stuff I have heard them give in countless stump speeches and even the last debate.

[lefthook00]

Doesn't matter if Obama has less experience. HE IS A SMARTER HUMAN BEING.

Obama wasn't begging for follow-ups. Both were making good points. The immature part is McCain trying to act younger and funny, and making hand/face gestures while Obama is speaking, and trying to put words in Obama's mouth. His writers must be on strike or got laid off due to the economy.

[Denali]

Doesn't matter if Obama has less experience. HE IS A SMARTER HUMAN BEING.


So since I'm a smarter human being than you and I prefer McCain to Obama, does that make McCain's candidacy more legitimate than Obama's?

[IlliniFan]

So since I'm a smarter human being than you and I prefer McCain to Obama, does that make McCain's candidacy more legitimate than Obama's?
Only problem with that statement is the part about you being a smarter human being than anyone. That's laughable.

[blasian]

I missed most of this. But from what I saw, it just sounded like the same old talking points from both. Also didn't like how Obama went into his life story for the 1000th time instead of actually answering the question on what he didn't know and what he'd do to find out

[YAWN]

its over.

obama will be our new president

[canadianballer]

Thakn god he will be

[SoCalMike]

its over.

obama will be our new president

i would not be so sure... there's still a lot of time and opportunity for "swift boats." in addition, you cannot dismiss the potential for the "Bradley effect."



:pimp:

[blasian]

its over.

obama will be our new president

a lot can still happen in 4 weeks. 4 weeks ago McCain had the lead...

[YAWN]

Obama looks bad at there. Losing the grip he had on the election as we speak.
:oldlol:

dude its over. it was the same old **** they have been spewing.

obama has 264 electoral votes on lock.
He just needs to win one of these states and mccain did nothing extravagant to sway independents.
.
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9094/picture3ux7.png

[DeuceWallaces]

Not looking good for McCain at this point. I'd be more worried if Ayers and Wright wasn't old news. We'll see how much it affects the polls over the next 10 days.

[YAWN]

i would not be so sure... there's still a lot of time and opportunity for "swift boats." in addition, you cannot dismiss the potential for the "Bradley effect."



:pimp:

early response to the new attacks have been seen in a negative light for mccain. I think the fact that he was known to have opposed negative personal attacks so adamantly is coming back to bite him in the ass.

[kentatm]

i would not be so sure... there's still a lot of time and opportunity for "swift boats." in addition, you cannot dismiss the potential for the "Bradley effect."



:pimp:


i agree about the Bradley effect but I also wonder just how accurate these polls even are b/c they only account for land lines most of the time and there are so many people these days that only have cell phones.

[SoCalMike]

i agree about the Bradley effect but I also wonder just how accurate these polls even are b/c they only account for land lines most of the time and there are so many people these days that only have cell phones.

im not sure i get what you mean... can you explain??? thanks!



:pimp:

[Denali]

Only problem with that statement is the part about you being a smarter human being than anyone. That's laughable.

The last two elections, liberals have talked endlessly about the collective ignorance of the average American for voting George Bush twice.

They said the people who voted him into office were simply mesmerized by idealistic campaign propaganda and motivated by mob-think bandwagon mentality.

Let me ask you something. Do you think that in the four years since the last election, America's collective IQ has miraculously spiked, or the same exact thing is happening again, simply with a candidate from the other party?

[YAWN]

The last two elections, liberals have talked endlessly about the collective ignorance of the average American for voting George Bush twice.

They said the people who voted him into office were simply mesmerized by idealistic campaign propaganda and motivated by mob-think bandwagon mentality.

Let me ask you something. Do you think that in the four years since the last election, America's collective IQ has miraculously spiked, or the same exact thing is happening again, simply with a candidate from the other party?

people cant learn from their mistakes?

or perhaps they are looking at the issues at hand and choosing appropriately with what they feel is best for them and the country?

nah why would people ever vote based on those things. im sure all the traditionally red states will just vote for mccain just cause hes a good ol boy from the grand old party

[Denali]

people cant learn from their mistakes?

or perhaps they are looking at the issues at hand and choosing appropriately with what they feel is best for them and the country?

nah why would people ever vote based on those things. im sure all the traditionally red states will just vote for mccain just cause hes a good ol boy from the grand old party


anyone wanna take a shot at a legitimate, coherent response?

[kentatm]

im not sure i get what you mean... can you explain??? thanks!



:pimp:

the poll numbers they get come from literally calling people up.

there are a ton of restrictions on calling cell phones for stuff like that so almost always they ignore them.

as more and more people get rid of their land lines, its harder to get accurate numbers.

the problem is exacerbated by the fact that mostly people under 40 are the ones getting rid of the land lines.

[YAWN]

anyone wanna take a shot at a legitimate, coherent response?

sorry i forgot you were that kid starface. no sense it attempting to discuss anything with you.

[Denali]

sorry i forgot you were that kid starface. no sense it attempting to discuss anything with you.


yeah cause if we debate it you'll lose and you know that. ill at least give you credit for knowing that much.

[rezznor]

"that one" :wtf: :no:

[YAWN]

yeah cause if we debate it you'll lose and you know that. ill at least give you credit for knowing that much.
:rolleyes:

i think its funny how everyone else has also pegged you a moron, yet you change your username and attempt to act like you know **** about politics.

give it up kid.

[rezznor]

the poll numbers they get come from literally calling people up.

there are a ton of restrictions on calling cell phones for stuff like that so almost always they ignore them.

as more and more people get rid of their land lines, its harder to get accurate numbers.

the problem is exacerbated by the fact that mostly people under 40 are the ones getting rid of the land lines.
if thats the case then shouldnt the numbers be even more on favor of obama? he has the youth vote after all.

[kentatm]

if thats the case then shouldnt the numbers be even more on favor of obama? he has the youth vote after all.


perhaps but there is no real way of knowing. its not like i don't know several young McCain supporters. I live in uptown Dallas to be fair, but still.

Plus, hate to say it, but the youth vote has never been known for actually getting out and voting en mass.

[Smokee]

Obama couldn't have done better. He's really convincing in how genuine he comes across. Thats if you aren't already extremely right sided to begin with. There is no way you can say hes a bad candidate for Prez, only in policy differences. As a person, communicator, and just educational credentials you couldn't create a better candidate.

Mccain just seems out of touch to a degree. Obama came back strong on everything he said. Mccain knew he was getting beaten in relaying to the audience and i think thats why he was so insistent on getting his turn. And when Mccain tried to knitpick Obama he did it with blatant exaggeration like in that attacking Pakistan comment. I mean anyone could see the obviousness of what Obama just said, and then what Mccain turned it into. Just really bad comeback i think. His jokes and pettyness came across as bad also.

The fact that the after polls are even close in terms of debate success just goes to show how partisan most people are, even the ones that pretend to be independent/undecided :rolleyes:

[crisoner]

Did anyone hear McCain say the Social Security would be EASY to fix?!?!? :wtf:


That's all I got to say.....TKO Obama won.

[bagelred]

CNN, MoE 4%:

Who did the best job in the debate?

McCain (R) 30
Obama (D) 54

Opinion of Barack Obama (before debate)

Favorable: 64 (60)
Unfavorable: 34 (38)

Opinion of John McCain (before debate)

Favorable: 51 (51)
Unfavorable: 46 (46)

[SoCalMike]

the poll numbers they get come from literally calling people up.

there are a ton of restrictions on calling cell phones for stuff like that so almost always they ignore them.

as more and more people get rid of their land lines, its harder to get accurate numbers.

the problem is exacerbated by the fact that mostly people under 40 are the ones getting rid of the land lines.

ahh, i gotcha now.... just so you know, the polling collection process is multi-faceted these days, so its not just from landlines, as the polling organizations are trying to adjust to the newer modes of communication....



:pimp:

[bagelred]

CBS:

Who won?

McCain (R) 27
Obama (D) 39
Draw 35

Will Obama will make the right decisions on the economy?

Before debate: 54
After debate: 68

Will McCain will make the right decisions on the economy?

Before debate: 41
After debate: 49

[Cannonball]

So Hussein is the leading receiver of free cash from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Nicesh choice people.

[bagelred]

So Hussein is the leading receiver of free cash from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Nicesh choice people.

The election is slipping away Cannondork....slipping away.....don't cry.......

[Cannonball]

The election is slipping away Cannondork....slipping away.....don't cry.......
LOL just keep blindly following obamesiah... good sheep goood sheep.

[ShowTime LA]

Obama ftw!

[bagelred]

LOL just keep blindly following obamesiah... good sheep goood sheep.

Just keep following the crooks, liars, and hypocrites.....

[Cannonball]

Obama ftw!
Putin is that you?

[Cannonball]

Just keep following the crooks, liars, and hypocrites.....
oh no no you see I support McCain..

[bagelred]

oh no no you see I support McCain..

Do you mean "that one" ?

[Denali]

The election is slipping away Cannondork....slipping away.....don't cry.......

we'll see how satisfied you are when there is a democratic congress and democratic president in a time of recession who want to take away money from small businesses in the form of excess taxing, which causes further layoffs, which then causes more people to turn to the government for handouts, which causes an even larger burden on small businesses and big business, disabling them from being able to compete on the world market and further pushing us into oblivion.

why? all because the bleeding heart liberals are so desperate to see everyone have an equal amount of money. no more rich people! that's the liberal motto. they're willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. they are so sensitive and illogically determined to crusade for the underdog, that they would rather the ENTIRE COUNTRY be broke than to have a successful economy that allows some people to be rich and move into or beyond the middle class, while inevitably as in any society, some people will be poor. they'd just rather have everyone be poor so that there are no more "evil corporations" to hurt everyone's feelings.

bunch of sensitive ideologue ******* who are so fixated on making decisions with their heart that they have no ability to make them with their brains.

[Cannonball]

Do you mean "that one" ?
Straight Bad Ass

[Cannonball]

we'll see how satisfied you are when there is a democratic congress and democratic president in a time of recession who want to take away money from small businesses in the form of excess taxing, which causes further layoffs, which then causes more people to turn to the government for handouts, which causes an even larger burden on small businesses and big business, disabling them from being able to compete on the world market and further pushing us into oblivion.

why? all because the bleeding heart liberals are so desperate to see everyone have an equal amount of money. no more rich people! that's the liberal motto. they're willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. they are so sensitive and illogically determined to crusade for the underdog, that they would rather the ENTIRE COUNTRY be broke than to have a successful economy that allows some people to be rich and move into or beyond the upper class, while inevitably as in any society, some people will be poor. they'd just rather have everyone be poor so that there are no more "evil corporations" to hurt everyone's feelings.

bunch of sensitive ideologue ******* who are so fixated on making decisions with their heart that they have no ability to make them with their brains.
I don't know where you get your energy.

[bagelred]

we'll see how satisfied you are when there is a democratic congress and democratic president in a time of recession who want to take away money from small businesses in the form of excess taxing, which causes further layoffs, which then causes more people to turn to the government for handouts, which causes an even larger burden on small businesses and big business, disabling them from being able to compete on the world market and further pushing us into oblivion.

why? all because the bleeding heart liberals are so desperate to see everyone have an equal amount of money. no more rich people! that's the liberal motto. they're willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. they are so sensitive and illogically determined to crusade for the underdog, that they would rather the ENTIRE COUNTRY be broke than to have a successful economy that allows some people to be rich and move into or beyond the upper class, while inevitably as in any society, some people will be poor. they'd just rather have everyone be poor so that there are no more "evil corporations" to hurt everyone's feelings.

bunch of sensitive ideologue ******* who are so fixated on making decisions with their heart that they have no ability to make them with their brains.

How's the last 8 years worked out for us?

[Kumo]

How's the last 8 years worked out for us?

Yeah, we've been going downhill since congress got taken over by the dems.

I don't really remember too well, but during the debate I heard Obama say, "Teachers might struggle, and someone making 2x their paycheck get to live how they want.."

Right, thats the incentive to make good money.... Obama wants a socialist state. Everyone doesn't always win. What does he want to do? Take money from the person that has done well and even it out?

[Denali]

How's the last 8 years worked out for us?

Please state the negative impact that just one congressional policy has had on you in the last 8 years.

Were you disallowed to marry your boyfriend?

Were you denied excessive welfare and handouts?

Were you tortured for withholding terrorist information?

I mean, what? What exactly is your big gripe? Yeah it's a nice little campaign slogan that barrack hussein alqaeda has you hooked on, but exactly where have Y.O.U. felt the negative impact of the last 8 years in your day to day life? GIve me ONE example please.

[Cannonball]

Yeah, we've been going downhill since congress got taken over by the dems.

I don't really remember too well, but during the debate I heard Obama say, "Teachers might struggle, and someone making 2x their paycheck get to live how they want.."

Right, thats the incentive to make good money.... Obama wants a socialist state. Everyone doesn't always win. What does he want to do? Take money from the person that has done well and even it out?
Yesir

Why work 8 hours a day when I can just chill at home and you can hook me up with those evil rich peoples money!!! Better order some new 360 games.

[Kumo]

Please state the negative impact that just one congressional policy has had on you in the last 8 years.

Were you disallowed to marry your boyfriend?

Were you denied excessive welfare and handouts?

Were you tortured for withholding terrorist information?

I mean, what? What exactly is your big gripe? Yeah it's a nice little campaign slogan that barrack hussein alqaeda has you hooked on, but exactly where have Y.O.U. felt the negative impact of the last 8 years in your day to day life? GIve me ONE example please.

Get ready for a one line sarcastic answer.

[Cannonball]

Please state the negative impact that just one congressional policy has had on you in the last 8 years.

Were you disallowed to marry your boyfriend?

Were you denied excessive welfare and handouts?

Were you tortured for withholding terrorist information?

I mean, what? What exactly is your big gripe? Yeah it's a nice little campaign slogan that barrack hussein alqaeda has you hooked on, but exactly where have Y.O.U. felt the negative impact of the last 8 years in your day to day life? GIve me ONE example please.
My stocks-WOuld have happened quicker with Kerry
Gas prices-don't think kerry would have handled this better
uhh That's about it.

[LakersDynasty]

McCain lost HUGE points in this debate. Referring to Obama as "That one." Refusing to shake hands with Obama after the debate and pointing Obama towards his wife's direction. Getting up and walking around in front of the camere while Tom Brokaw says goodnight. Condescendingly responding to the black voter who asked him about the economy. But hey, I'm sure it won't matter to the Dildo Reilly neo-nazi movement, they are busy trying to turn this country into Nazi Germany.

[Denali]

McCain lost HUGE points in this debate. Referring to Obama as "That one." Refusing to shake hands with Obama after the debate and pointing Obama towards his wife's direction. Getting up and walking around in front of the camere while Tom Brokaw says goodnight. Condescendingly responding to the black voter who asked him about the economy. But hey, I'm sure it won't matter to the Dildo Reilly neo-nazi movement, they are busy trying to turn this country into Nazi Germany.

THis message brought to you by:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/b4its2late/demorats/looney_left1_1.jpg

[Cannonball]

McCain lost HUGE points in this debate. Referring to Obama as "That one." Refusing to shake hands with Obama after the debate and pointing Obama towards his wife's direction. Getting up and walking around in front of the camere while Tom Brokaw says goodnight. Condescendingly responding to the black voter who asked him about the economy. But hey, I'm sure it won't matter to the Dildo Reilly neo-nazi movement, they are busy trying to turn this country into Nazi Germany.
lol Obama did that to you dumbass.

[mhg88]

If I was a McCain supporter I wouldn't waste my time arguing and making long posts anymore. He's done.

[LakersDynasty]

Nah Looney is buying into the GOP campaign hype and calling Obama a Terrorist, Al Qaida affiliat, as you have done numerous times, just in this thread. Looney is believing that McCain will bring change even though he has voted with George Bush 90% of the time.

What are the negative effects in peoples lifes every day? The price of gas has doubled since George Bush took over as president. It has nothing to do with demand for Gas and everything with George Bush killing the value of the dollar by building up this huge deficit and thus reducing the world's confidence in the dollar. I am in home improvent and because of this recession business revenue is down a lot. People are having a hard time paying their bills, putting food on the table, worried about losing their jobs, the last thing they think about is improving their homes.

[InspiredLebowski]

I'm 95% positive they shook hands immediately after the debate ended.

[LakersDynasty]

I'm 95% positive they shook hands immediately after the debate ended.
Could have missed that part. What I saw was Obama going up to McCain and trying to shake his hand, and McCain pointing to his wife.

[YAWN]

I'm 95% positive they shook hands immediately after the debate ended.

yeah i think i caught it. right after it was over they both walked to the middle and shook hands, which is when brokaw told them to move.

[Kumo]

Nah Looney is buying into the GOP campaign hype and calling Obama a Terrorist, Al Qaida affiliat, as you have done numerous times, just in this thread. Looney is believing that McCain will bring change even though he has voted with George Bush 90% of the time.

What are the negative effects in peoples lifes every day? The price of gas has doubled since George Bush took over as president. It has nothing to do with demand for Gas and everything with George Bush killing the value of the dollar by building up this huge deficit and thus reducing the world's confidence in the dollar. I am in home improvent and because of this recession business revenue is down a lot. People are having a hard time paying their bills, putting food on the table, worried about losing their jobs, the last thing they think about is improving their homes.

Its a joke... its like making fun of McCains age, but instead a name. Looney is believing a one word slogan as the campaign base.

Bush isn't responsible for the economy or gas prices.... take your head out of the sand.

[LakersDynasty]

Its a joke... its like making fun of McCains age, but instead a name. Looney is believing a one word slogan as the campaign base.

Bush isn't responsible for the economy or gas prices.... take your head out of the sand.
No calling him a terrorist is not a joke. It's not the same as calling someone old. In fact, your campaign has been trying to convince the sheep that support them that Obama is indeed an affiliate of a domestic terrorist, even though there were republicans present there who also sat next to him. He was also called a Terrorist by a McCain supporter during one of his rallys.

How is Bush not responsible for it? You understand that by killing the value of the dollar, you not only pay more for gas, but everything else? Your money is not worth what it used to be so therefore you have to pay more dollars for a gallon of gas, simple logic. And that's the result of the terrible war he started with Iraq, running up the deficit of the government and reducing confidence in the dollar worldwide.

[Denali]

No calling him a terrorist is not a joke. It's not the same as calling someone old. In fact, your campaign has been trying to convince the sheep that support them that Obama is indeed an affiliate of a domestic terrorist, even though there were republicans present there who also sat next to him. He was also called a Terrorist by a McCain supporter during one of his rallys.

talk about your typical hyper-sensitive liberal *****



How is Bush not responsible for it? You understand that by killing the value of the dollar, you not only pay more for gas, but everything else? Your money is not worth what it used to be so therefore you have to pay more dollars for a gallon of gas, simple logic. And that's the result of the terrible war he started with Iraq, running up the deficit of the government and reducing confidence in the dollar worldwide.

that makes so little sense that i'm embarrassed for you to have said it in front of people

[Kumo]

No calling him a terrorist is not a joke. It's not the same as calling someone old. In fact, your campaign has been trying to convince the sheep that support them that Obama is indeed an affiliate of a domestic terrorist, even though there were republicans present there who also sat next to him. He was also called a Terrorist by a McCain supporter during one of his rallys.

How is Bush not responsible for it? You understand that by killing the value of the dollar, you not only pay more for gas, but everything else? Your money is not worth what it used to be so therefore you have to pay more dollars for a gallon of gas, simple logic. And that's the result of the terrible war he started with Iraq, running up the deficit of the government and reducing confidence in the dollar worldwide.

My campaign? Bwahaha.

Yeah, its a joke. Its like a racist joke, a dead baby joke, a blonde joke. Let it go, no need to be so uptight. No, they are not trying to convince he is a terrorist, gtfo. So another person called him a terrorist? Someone has probably said much worse, about Obama and McCain.

Bush killed the value of the dollar? Mind telling me how? If there wasn't a war its possible that terrorists would be torching the fuel lines... a lot worse outcome (with lots of others too). The economy is down because of bad loans... stop blaming Bush for every short-coming of society.

[InspiredLebowski]

I'm aware it's said in jest, and I assume the guy's who've said he's a terrorist in this thread (kumo, starface) would voice disdain for those who truly believed him to be one.

But don't you think it's somewhat dangerous for a campaign to insinuate the opponent is a terrorist, and that reiterating the stance, albeit in a sarcastic way, encourages that train of thought to expand?

[YAWN]

some early poll numbers:

cnn
80/15 in favor of obama

fox news
70/30 in favor of obama

some outsiders - guardian.uk
90/10 in favor of obama

[LakersDynasty]

talk about your typical hyper-sensitive liberal *****




that makes so little sense that i'm embarrassed for you to have said it in front of people
It's a fact you racist moron. That's all you have after I respond with facts? Little "insults?"

I don't care about him being a called a terrorist you dumbsh*t. I'm disgusted at the fact that sheep like you buy into the BS that the GOP feeds you. It's what got us into this situation in the first place. Ignorant, dumb people who voted for Bush so he could keep our country free of "terrorists." :violin:

[Denali]

I'm aware it's said in jest, and I assume the guy's who've said he's a terrorist in this thread (kumo, starface) would voice disdain for those who truly believed him to be one.

But don't you think it's somewhat dangerous for a campaign to insinuate the opponent is a terrorist, and that reiterating the stance, albeit in a sarcastic way, encourages that train of thought to expand?


you're right, i would not expect anyone in a position of campaign authority to insinuate that obama himself is a terrorist.

but i also think its fair game to point out FACTUAL connections obama has to radicals like jeremiah wright, and terrorists like bill ayers.

[LakersDynasty]

some early poll numbers:

cnn
80/15 in favor of obama

fox news
70/30 in favor of obama

some outsiders - guardian.uk
90/10 in favor of obama
Is that a typo? This is Fow news after all. 86% of their viewers thought Palin won. :oldlol:

[Kumo]

I'm aware it's said in jest, and I assume the guy's who've said he's a terrorist in this thread (kumo, starface) would voice disdain for those who truly believed him to be one.

But don't you think it's somewhat dangerous for a campaign to insinuate the opponent is a terrorist, and that reiterating the stance, albeit in a sarcastic way, encourages that train of thought to expand?

McCains camp isn't doing that though... but I see where you think the population being around that humor is dangerous though. But yeah, I kind of agree with you, but most know when a joke falls off to an insult...threat...etc.

btw - I haven't said he's a terrorist, I'm just saying its a joke when people say it.

[Denali]

It's a fact you racist moron. That's all you have after I respond with facts? Little "insults?"

I don't care about him being a called a terrorist you dumbsh*t. I'm disgusted at the fact that sheep like you buy into the BS that the GOP feeds you. It's what got us into this situation in the first place. Ignorant, dumb people who voted for Bush so he could keep our country free of "terrorists." :violin:



http://z.about.com/d/pediatrics/1/0/F/N/crying_baby.jpg

[Denali]

Is that a typo? This is Fow news after all. 86% of their viewers thought Palin won. :oldlol:


you think you're some enlightened intellectual for supporting obama, and you dont even know how to spell "faux?"

Fow LOL

pathetic.

[YAWN]

Is that a typo? This is Fow news after all. 86% of their viewers thought Palin won. :oldlol:

http://elections.foxnews.com/

middle of the page. i was surprised too; someone there must be snoozing on the job. im sure it will come around to tilt for mccain at some point soon.

[Kumo]

My campaign? Bwahaha.

Yeah, its a joke. Its like a racist joke, a dead baby joke, a blonde joke. Let it go, no need to be so uptight. No, they are not trying to convince he is a terrorist, gtfo. So another person called him a terrorist? Someone has probably said much worse, about Obama and McCain.

Bush killed the value of the dollar? Mind telling me how? If there wasn't a war its possible that terrorists would be torching the fuel lines... a lot worse outcome (with lots of others too). The economy is down because of bad loans... stop blaming Bush for every short-coming of society.



It's a fact you racist moron. That's all you have after I respond with facts? Little "insults?"

I don't care about him being a called a terrorist you dumbsh*t. I'm disgusted at the fact that sheep like you buy into the BS that the GOP feeds you. It's what got us into this situation in the first place. Ignorant, dumb people who voted for Bush so he could keep our country free of "terrorists." :violin:

You didn't respond with facts, but opinions. All you have after I respond to you is just little insults though? Strong hypocrite.

[InspiredLebowski]

you're right, i would not expect anyone in a position of campaign authority to insinuate that obama himself is a terrorist.

but i also think its fair game to point out FACTUAL connections obama has to radicals like jeremiah wright, and terrorists like bill ayers.

Palin said Obama "pals around with terrorists." Insinuating, in my interpretation, that he had a cookout last weekend with Ayers. I agree that these factual connections deserve to be addressed, but the Ayers one is one that needs to be treated very delicately in lieu of how some people may react. I wouldn't envy the person who would have to decide how to broach that topic in the right manner.


btw - I haven't said he's a terrorist, I'm just saying its a joke when people say it.

I wasn't saying anyone was legitimately calling him one here, just in jest. But in this jest they further the idea to some who aren't as keen as others to be taken literally.

[LakersDynasty]

You didn't respond with facts, but opinions. All you have after I respond to you is just little insults though? Strong hypocrite.
That respone was towards KumFace, not you. I really don't feel like arguing with people who think Bush has absolutely nothing to do with how ****ed up this country has been for the last 8 years.

Kumface, it's an obvious typo. Come back with something better next time.

[Legend of Josh]

healthcare is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT

:rolleyes:

... if you were born into a poor family... one where health-care was nonexistent... I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.

McCain demonstrated signs of his "old age" in this debate. He looked very "stiff" up there... I got a kick out of him "taking notes" on the sidelines as Obama practically raped him on many issues.

John McCain folks... the maverick!!! He's the savior of the Republican party? He's a puppet. He's too soft too. I foresee a landslide election approaching.

_____

Obama's isn't off the hook either. Charisma, check. Class, check. Mannerism, check. The list goes on and on. He's great on camera. To be a black man, he sure doesn't come across as one. He's in a great position; the black voters will vote for him by default regardless of his policies, and the youthful white voters will buy into his charm.

The issue is, the man is full of sh*t. He's not ready to run this country. Neither is McCain for that matter. Back on Obama, how about his bold statement about invading Pakistan??? On prime time TV! Wake up people, this is serious. Later, he said himself, military action against Iran is still on the table.

Point blank, we have no fu*king business in the middle east!!! Israel, God help them, but we can't keep playing "big brother" ... we have no business in that region of the world. Fu*k the oil! I'm sick of us trying to portray we're there to "enforce stability" to the regin; what a crock of horse sh*t!!! It's about the dollars, and nothing less.

_____

We're fu*ked either way. I see both puppets as being war-hungry. Even if the softy McCain is unwilling to hit the red button, someone behind the curtain will be more than happy to slap his dentures out of his fu*king mouth and make him do it.

Dark times folks... dark times...

[Kumo]

That respone was towards KumFace, not you. I really don't feel like arguing with people who think Bush has absolutely nothing to do with how ****ed up this country has been for the last 8 years.

Kumface, it's an obvious typo. Come back with something better next time.

Wait... what? I suppose kumface is supposed to be me, but it wasn't towards me? It was towards kumface... whos that then?

I don't see how a whole response with the wrong quote, and responding to a WHOLE different post is a typo.

Typical liberal... whenever you are wrong you back out with petty insults. :applause:

[Kumo]

:rolleyes: ... if you were born into a poor family... one where health-care was nonexistent... I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune.

I don't have insurance... and I don't think I should be provided it by the government :confusedshrug:

[LakersDynasty]

Wait... what? I suppose kumface is supposed to be me, but it wasn't towards me? It was towards kumface... whos that then?

I don't see how a whole response with the wrong quote, and responding to a WHOLE different post is a typo.

Typical liberal... whenever you are wrong you back out with petty insults. :applause:
Kumface=Starface=Denali. I just noticed your name starts with "Kum." Should have clarified that. I've stated my opinions about the economy, gas, and Bush. Not going to change it, we can go back and forth all day but the fact is that it won't change anyone's stance. I just don't see a point in arguing with anyone who believes Bush is completely innocent in all of this.

[YAWN]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/That_One.gif
:oldlol:

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/589/picture4oa4.png


its gonna get ugly

[Denali]

I wasn't saying anyone was legitimately calling him one here, just in jest. But in this jest they further the idea to some who aren't as keen as others to be taken literally.


Well I do by all means hope people will question the background and motives of Barrack Hussein Obama.

Barrack Hussein Obama was born to a Muslim father. He has had a working relationship with a man who bombed the pentagon. He attended the church of a radical, racially-divisive preacher in Jeremiah Wright. A church that awarded Luis Farrakhan the Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award" and said that Farrakhan "epitomized greatness." (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_distances.html)

That is a very sketchy background. Add to that the fact that Obama has been in the United States senate for four years. During that time he has accrued one of the highest percentages of missed votes of any senator, and after only four years he realized he was popular enough to run straight to the presidency and jumped at the opportunity.

Does he sound to you like a guy who is a trustworthy, honest patriot who wants to serve his country, or a sketchy career politician who is sheisting his way to the white house by simply taking advantage of the sentiment of opposition to the current administration and taking advantage of the a political climate that is conducive to the idealist propaganda of "hope" and "change" the way hitler once did?

you tell me.

[Denali]

Kumface=Starface=Denali. I just noticed your name starts with "Kum." Should have clarified that. I've stated my opinions about the economy, gas, and Bush. Not going to change it, we can go back and forth all day but the fact is that it won't change anyone's stance. I just don't see a point in arguing with anyone who believes Bush is completely innocent in all of this.

Kumo and I are seperate individuals. Every other person on this whole site knows that and is laughing at how stupid you are.

Your shrill babbling and desperate incoherence in this thread are EMBARRASSING you in front of all of ISH.

Do you realize this?

[InspiredLebowski]

Well I do by all means hope people will question the background and motives of Barrack Hussein Obama.

Barrack Hussein Obama was born to a Muslim father. He has had a working relationship with a man who bombed the pentagon. He attended the church of a radical, racially-divisive preacher in Jeremiah Wright. A church that awarded Luis Farrakhan the Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award" and said that Farrakhan "epitomized greatness." (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_distances.html)

That is a very sketchy background. Add to that the fact that Obama has been in the United States senate for four years. During that time he has accrued one of the highest percentages of missed votes of any senator, and after only four years he realized he was popular enough to run straight to the presidency and jumped at the opportunity.

Does he sound to you like a guy who is a trustworthy, honest patriot who wants to serve his country, or a sketchy career politician who is sheisting his way to the white house by simply taking advantage of the sentiment of opposition to the current administration and taking advantage of the a political climate that is conducive to the idealist propaganda of "hope" and "change" the way hitler once did?

you tell me.

He's a sheisty career politician. You don't get nominated for president w/o being one. But the guy isn't a terrorist (or Hitler). I wish someone kept a count of the number of times each has used the word "change" in relation to their candidacy in the last month or so, I bet it's pretty close.

[LakersDynasty]

Kumo and I are seperate individuals. Every other person on this whole site knows that and is laughing at how stupid you are.

Your shrill babbling and desperate incoherence in this thread are EMBARRASSING you in front of all of ISH.

Do you realize this?
I can't believe how stupid you are. I clearly stated in my post that the insult was not directed at him, but at you. I never claimed you were the same person, go back, read it again and come back you moron. Kumface=Starface. Kumo has nothing to do with this. It's YOU! Get it? :roll:

[Kumo]

I can't believe how stupid you are. I clearly stated in my post that the insult was not directed at him, but at you. I never claimed you were the same person, go back, read it again and come back you moron. Kumface=Starface. Kumo has nothing to do with this. It's YOU! Get it? :roll:

Damn dude you make it confusing basically spelling my name out.... So you don't think I am the same person as starface, but that starfaces nickname is kumface?

[YAWN]

a sketchy career politician who is sheisting his way to the white house by simply taking advantage of the sentiment of opposition to the current administration and taking advantage of the a political climate that is conducive to the idealist propaganda of "hope" and "change"

you tell me.


didnt the american people tell you when they chose him over hillary?



:oldlol: at your asinine statemenet insinuating that obama is like hitler

[Legend of Josh]

I don't have insurance... and I don't think I should be provided it by the government :confusedshrug:

Every human being should be entitled to heath-care, especially for children. The issue is not who should and shouldn't be entitled to heath-care, it should be more about the cost. That's where the corruption comes into play.

I'm not saying let the government control all sectors of the industry, but to some degree there needs to be a minimum standard for health-care to all, most notably children.

[LakersDynasty]

Damn dude you make it confusing basically spelling my name out.... So you don't think I am the same person as starface, but that starfaces nickname is kumface?
Yes, exactly.

[Denali]

He's a sheisty career politician. You don't get nominated for president w/o being one. But the guy isn't a terrorist (or Hitler). I wish someone kept a count of the number of times each has used the word "change" in relation to their candidacy in the last month or so, I bet it's pretty close.

Still, do these facts cause ANY concern on your part?

Was born the son of a Muslim father and attended for 22 years a radical church that awarded Luis Farrakhan an achievement award (and didnt grow up going to that church, but selected it as an adult). Politically collaborated and befriended an admitted terrorist who BOMBED THE PENTAGON. Has served in the Senate for a mere four years and during that time had one of the highest absentee rates on voting, and was THE most liberal voter when he did vote.

I mean, you feel truly confident and secure in Barrack Hussein Obama's motives, intentions, and trustworthiness? Confident enough to vote for him as the President of the United States?

[YAWN]

nonsense

"<whisper>the terrorists hate your freedom</whisper>" george w bush

scare tactics are great

[InspiredLebowski]

Still, do these facts cause ANY concern on your part?

Was born the son of a Muslim father and attended for 22 years a radical church that awarded Luis Farrakhan an achievement award (and didnt grow up going to that church, but selected it as an adult). Politically collaborated and befriended an admitted terrorist who BOMBED THE PENTAGON. Has served in the Senate for a mere four years and during that time had one of the highest absentee rates on voting, and was THE most liberal voter when he did vote.

I mean, you feel truly confident and secure in Barrack Hussein Obama's motives, intentions, and trustworthiness? Confident enough to vote for him as the President of the United States?

Yes, they concern me (other than a Muslim father he barely knew). Palin's church looks pretty out there to me, but they all do, and she's VP. I'm not sure why you're misconstruing me as some ardent Obamiac, what do you see his motives and intentions to be, to drape a red flag over the country? This will be my 2nd time voting for president and the 2nd time I feel like I'm voting for the guy who'll **** up the country the least, and that'll probably be the case for the rest of my life.

[Denali]

Every human being should be entitled to heath-care, especially for children.

Let's inject some logic into this argument, and by that I mean formulaic logic.

What if students decided it was no longer worth spending their entire 20's with their heads burried in med-school books and spending their entire life savings paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in med school loans?

What if people simply stopped electing to become doctors? Your statement that it is every citizens right to have healthcare would become a problem. What would you propose, that the government force people to become doctors? Institute a doctor draft?

Life and liberty are rights. You can ensure those independently. Healthcare is dependent on people CHOOSING to become doctors. You cant MAKE people be doctors, and by extension, you cannot call healthcare a right. It is a SERVICE. If you cant understand that logic, you are a long way off from reality.

[Hawker]

I'm glad I didnt watch this. I'm smarter because of this.

[Denali]

This will be my 2nd time voting for president and the 2nd time I feel like I'm voting for the guy who'll **** up the country the least, and that'll probably be the case for the rest of my life.


Not on the day when you will have an opportunity to vote for me.

[Hawker]

Not on the day when you will have an opportunity to vote for me.

I'd vote for you.

[blasian]

Well I do by all means hope people will question the background and motives of Barrack Hussein Obama.

Barrack Hussein Obama was born to a Muslim father. He has had a working relationship with a man who bombed the pentagon. He attended the church of a radical, racially-divisive preacher in Jeremiah Wright. A church that awarded Luis Farrakhan the Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award" and said that Farrakhan "epitomized greatness." (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_distances.html)





Your criticism of Obama's flimsy Senate record is valid. But I have a problem with the first part. First of all, why is it "sketchy" that Obama's father was a Muslim? I know that there've been allegations that Obama's lying about his religious background, which has been disputed numerous times. But even if Obama was a Muslim, why is this seen as such a negative thing?

Wright is someone who I felt was heavily demonized by the media, through soundbites that were largely taken out of context. If you look at the speeches he made in their entirety, he makes some very valid points, imo, about the wrongdoings of the US government coming back to haunt them. It's actually quite similar to Malcolm X's infamous "the chickens coming home to roost" comment regarding President Kennedy's assasination. As for the whole black liberation theology thing, its something that I feel most of mainstream white America doesn't really understand. The media, both left and right, did little to gain an understanding of it and merely assumed that it was some sort of racist radical movement. In reality, the theology deals with the paradox of black people following a religion that was widely used to justify their enslavement and prejudice against them. It's putting Christianity in a context that applies to the Black American experience.

Farrakhan is a tough figure. I understand why Obama would want to distance himself from him. I certainly don't agree with many of his stances, particular those involving Jewish people and gay people. Despite his many faults, the man has done many positive things for the black community that the media fails to publicize. The award he won was largely in recognition for those things.

Obama's "working relationship" with Ayers is overblown. They worked together in an anti-poverty group. As an Obama spokesman mentioned, to connect Obama to an organization and event that occurred when he was only 8 years old is ridiculous. Ayers was a completely different person when they worked together with a different mindset and outlook.

[Denali]

I'd vote for you.


thank you son, and your efforts will not be forgotten when it is time to select my cabinet!




.....but seriously i intend to run for the presidency later during the course of my life

[Kumo]

thank you son, and your efforts will not be forgotten when it is time to select my cabinet!




.....but seriously i intend to run for the presidency later during the course of my life

As long as its in 3 years you got my vote brah.

*just realized it has to be in atleast 4 years.... phail

[DeuceWallaces]

Let's inject some logic into this argument, and by that I mean formulaic logic.

What if students decided it was no longer worth spending their entire 20's with their heads burried in med-school books and spending their entire life savings paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in med school loans?

What if people simply stopped electing to become doctors? Your statement that it is every citizens right to have healthcare would become a problem. What would you propose, that the government force people to become doctors? Institute a doctor draft?

Life and liberty are rights. You can ensure those independently. Healthcare is dependent on people CHOOSING to become doctors. You cant MAKE people be doctors, and by extension, you cannot call healthcare a right. It is a SERVICE. If you cant understand that logic, you are a long way off from reality.

Your argument is illogical and irrelevant. Suggesting the health care infrastructure could somehow not support increased business is ridiculous. Furthermore, there has been an expansion of rights in the United States since its conception beyond life and liberty; many people want to include health care with that now.

[Legend of Josh]

Let's inject some logic into this argument, and by that I mean formulaic logic.

What if students decided it was no longer worth spending their entire 20's with their heads burried in med-school books and spending their entire life savings paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in med school loans?

What if people simply stopped electing to become doctors? Your statement that it is every citizens right to have healthcare would become a problem. What would you propose, that the government force people to become doctors? Institute a doctor draft?

Life and liberty are rights. You can ensure those independently. Healthcare is dependent on people CHOOSING to become doctors. You cant MAKE people be doctors, and by extension, you cannot call healthcare a right. It is a SERVICE. If you cant understand that logic, you are a long way off from reality.

In today's world... with today's advancements in medicine and medical readability ... everyone should have no issue getting a standard level of health-care, and the professionals get their pockets filled all in the process.

The problem is the government's lack of health-care spending and planning structures. We're giving Wall Street 700+ billion dollars so CEOs can still play golf on Tuesday afternoon instead of investing that type of money or even a fraction into the heath-care system, where it would be much better utilized.

Don't come back with the "bailout" saving all the "desk jobs" because that is not where the heart of this bailout deal is about... it's about the Feds buying back worthless stock only to make a huge profit in the years coming up. It's like taking out a personal loan, from yourself!... then paying yourself back interest!!!

:hammerhead:

Wake up people...

[Legend of Josh]

thank you son, and your efforts will not be forgotten when it is time to select my cabinet!




.....but seriously i intend to run for the presidency later during the course of my life

What's incredibly sad here, is that you honestly believe this doo-doo. You'll probably sit there and think to yourself, "more fuel to the fire!" by seeing comments such as mine, but you and I both know you'll do nothing more than grow old and look back on all this and say to yourself "holy sh*t... I really was this much of a fu*king e-diot... Legend of Josh was right... I just didn't listen..."

:hammerhead:

[Denali]

First of all, why is it "sketchy" that Obama's father was a Muslim?

In and of itself, it is harmless. Parents do not genetically pass on their religious affiliations. However, for a guy who did develop known associations with radicals throughout his life, to me personally it does raise a red flag that he is born of a man who belongs to the most fervently anti-american faith on the planet. How do you really know this is a guy who America can trust? He came to the Senate for four years, hardly voted, and as soon he was able to muster the popularity to make a Presidential run he jumped for it. This guy reeks of an opportunist. I think he has liberals fooled with all his majestic "change washington" sloganisms. I smell a rat plain and simple.

[Denali]

Your argument is illogical and irrelevant. Suggesting the health care infrastructure could somehow not support increased business is ridiculous. Furthermore, there has been an expansion of rights in the United States since its conception beyond life and liberty; many people want to include health care with that now.


let's break this down line by line to see if we can find the substance:


Your argument is illogical and irrelevant.
nope.


Suggesting the health care infrastructure could somehow not support increased business is ridiculous.
Nothing here. You used words like 'infrastructure' to sound informed, but I see nothing that relates to the problem of calling something a right that is directly dependent on someone else's free market choice.


Furthermore, there has been an expansion of rights in the United States since its conception beyond life and liberty; many people want to include health care with that now.

Lastly, you reaffirmed your original (and incorrect) position that you in fact do believe healthcare is a right. You even drove the nail home by including "many people" as your peers on the issue. But yet.....you did nothing to address the logical inconsistency of your line of thinking.


I'm sorry douche wallace. You've failed again. Unfortunately for you, reading pie charts all day doesnt make you an intuitive thinker. You are destined to muddle in futility with the other 95% of your ilk, while you each take a side and pretend you know better than the other. YOU F-A.I^L

[Denali]

The problem is the government's lack of health-care spending and planning structures.

Our government may one day decide to provide healthcare to all individuals. But that does not establish healthcare as a right. It simply means the government will have decided to pickup the check at the expense of a select few taxpayers. I *HOPE* you can appreciate the difference.

[DeuceWallaces]

1) I don't read pie charts

2) Infrastructure = doctors, hospitals, nurses, facilities, ambulances, supplies like medicine, etc. You insinuated there wasn't enough to support increased business brought on by socialized health care. That is ridiculous.

3) I may or may not believe health care is a right. It is a fact many people do, which is why I stated it. It is also a fact our "rights" have grown through time, beyond life and liberty. Perhaps you've heard of the Bill of Rights? It is also a fact that aforementioned people use this as an argument for health care being included in those rights.

4) Finally, wouldn't the right to "life" as you said, include proper health care?

5) DenaliFace you're an invalid who can only result to nonsense and insults.

[Denali]

1) I don't read pie charts

2) Infrastructure = doctors, hospitals, nurses, facilities, ambulances, supplies like medicine, etc. You insinuated there wasn't enough to support increased business brought on by socialized health care. That is ridiculous.

3) I may or may not believe health care is a right. It is a fact many people do, which is why I stated it. It is also a fact our "rights" have grown through time, beyond life and liberty. Perhaps you've heard of the Bill of Rights? It is also a fact that aforementioned people use this as an argument for health care being included in those rights.

4) Finally, wouldn't the right to "life" as you said, include proper health care?

5) DenaliFace you're an invalid who can only result to nonsense and insults.

I created a hypothetical where citizens elected to stop becoming doctors, to support a point that healthcare is not a right. Your response was "they'd never stop being doctors!" Despite the fact that I laid out a pretty clear foundation for the point, you either failed to understand it or intentionally neglected it for lack of a sensible refutation - probably the latter.

Owning guns can logically be considered a right. It cannot conflict logically with another persons will or rights. You can own a gun. Period. If nobody on the market is making one, you can make one yourself. You can own it no matter what. Habeas Corpus is a right. If you are being held, they have to let you see a judge. That doesnt conflict with anyone else's stated rights to keep you no matter what. If you say it is someone's RIGHT to be provided healthcare, then you are also implying that it is someones OBLIGATION to provide it to them. And thats simply not the case.

And I am pro choice. In fact I would have supported your mother wholeheartedly had she elected to abort.

[DeuceWallaces]

I thought you were saying they couldn't support it. I see your argument was positively irrational and irrelevant. It's so implausible it's barely worth discussing.

If all the gun manufacturers in the world stopped making guns would the government have a gun maker draft so we still had the right to bear arms? Answer me that.

[Showtime]

How many years does a person have to be wrong to realize they might want to rethink things a bit?

[Denali]

How many years does a person have to be wrong to realize they might want to rethink things a bit?


is the answer congruent to the length of time obama has served in the senate?

[DeuceWallaces]

Apparently you have no answer?

[Denali]

Apparently you have no answer?


ok, the answer is yes we would have a gun maker draft, so that we could do our civic duty and shoot all gays and muslims, and all the liberals who have dedicated their lives to ensuring they benefit from reverse-discrimination.

hap-E?

[crisoner]

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/That_One.gif
:oldlol:

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/589/picture4oa4.png


its gonna get ugly

Love that pin!!!!

[statman32]

I'm a new poster. I joined a few days ago.
Or how bout you are plowking, a known biased democrat. Pretty pathetic man.

[Laker4Lyfe]

McCains camp isn't doing that though... but I see where you think the population being around that humor is dangerous though. But yeah, I kind of agree with you, but most know when a joke falls off to an insult...threat...etc.

btw - I haven't said he's a terrorist, I'm just saying its a joke when people say it.

Sarah Palin has been doing that everyday since Saturday. And it's starting to show just how sad this campaign has become.

How in the heck are McCain/Palin putting "country first" when they are inciting PURE HATRED and DIVISIVENESS on the campaign trail?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html?referrer=emailarticle


"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.


One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."

Maybe to you this is fine, however this is NOT the sort of leadership I want in my country.

[MaxFly]

obama is a young, inexperienced, big-talking idealistic fan...


mccain has been doing this a long time and knows how foreign policy works, he knows how legislating works, he understands the principles of government and he is REALISTIC...

if you want steady, solid substance, vote mccain...


Denali, what in McCain's experience led him to go on national television a few times prior to the Iraq war and state that success in the war would be "fairly easy" and that we could win an overwhelming victory in a relatively short time?

We are not looking for someone with experience for the sake of having experience. We're looking for someone who's experience will translate into good judgement. Obama, a neophyte, somehow managed to accurately call the war:

[QUOTE]I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the middle east, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Queda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I

[YAWN]

http://thatone2008.com/

[SoCalMike]

Interesting how the bitterness comes out so aggressively here....



:pimp:

[Smokee]

Denali, what in McCain's experience led him to go on national television a few times prior to the Iraq war and state that success in the war would be "fairly easy" and that we could win an overwhelming victory in a relatively short time?

We are not looking for someone with experience for the sake of having experience. We're looking for someone who's experience will translate into good judgement. Obama, a neophyte, somehow managed to accurately call the war:



So it's laughable when I hear people harp about experience as one of McCain's primary advantages over Obama. How important is your experience if it doesn't inform your decisons or your thought process. Foreign policy is an area where McCain should dominate Obama, yet inspite of all his experience, McCain was the one who called Iraq incorrectly.


Its laughable when people on the right still criticize Obama for inexperience, when they thought it was fine that Palin was a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I thought they stopped using that card after realizing how hypocritical they come across by supporting Palin as the greatest candidate ever :rolleyes:

I guess someone didn't get the memo :hammerhead:

[picc84]

I'm just waiting for the first "n!gger" to be dropped by the McCain campaign.

[Heilige]

Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.

[Cannonball]

I'm just waiting for the first "n!gger" to be dropped by the McCain campaign.
:sleeping

Damn evil white people!!!!

[boozehound]

Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.
dammit, I was gonna make a joke about 18 bil in earmmarks paying for it, but you beat me to it. it is funny to me that he cant seem to answer a question on any domestic policy (could be spay and neuter legislation for stray dogs or something) without bringing it back to earmarks and offshore drilling. Dude, 18 bil aint **** in our budget. Get over it. In the meantime, you just passed a bill with innumerable earmarks (the bailout bill) and all for the good of the country.

Also, that town hall format was a terrible idea for his campaign. he looked like a frail old man who could barely hobble around. a couple of times I thought he looked like a mystic from the dark crystal with that slow shuffle step.

[Cannonball]

Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.
McCain is going to do what he think is best for the American people. He knows that pork barrel spending is absolutely NOT what the American people want to do, but he seems to think this bail out plan is absolutely necessary.


Also why is no-one talking about Obama being the leading receiver of frannie may and freddie Mac dirty money????

[MaxFly]

Its laughable when people on the right still criticize Obama for inexperience, when they thought it was fine that Palin was a heartbeat away from the Presidency. I thought they stopped using that card after realizing how hypocritical they come across by supporting Palin as the greatest candidate ever :rolleyes:

I guess someone didn't get the memo :hammerhead:

Oh, let's not even get into Palin. I've heard people make the case that she's a quick study and will be up to speed by Jan 20th. This is all about attacking your opponents weakness, therefore, I have no problem with McCain and Co. attacking Obama on experience... I may not agree, but I can understand the attack. But to choose Sarah Palin to be VP after you've spent the better part of a month and a half hitting Obama on experience is ridiculous.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I like Sarah Palin. I think she's a very smart woman as well as an astute politician, and I think she would be a very attractive candidate in the future. However, she's just not ready, and it's not a question of her experience... it's a question of her knowledge base. She hasn't been in the habit of thinking about these national issues and developing her own individual stances. If she were running with a younger, healthier candidate at another time, perhaps... I personally believe that the vice presidency does somewhat lend itself to on the job training. But right now, we are in very turbulent times, the top of the ticket isn't the healthiest person ever, and he will need sage counsel on a myriad of issues. She isn't in the position to provide that right now.

[Hawker]

Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.

This is what I like to see Heilige. Another republican realizing that the republican party is no longer being republican.

Voted 3rd Party people!

[Cannonball]

Oh, let's not even get into Palin. I've heard people make the case that she's a quick study and will be up to speed by Jan 20th. This is all about attacking your opponents weakness, therefore, I have no problem with McCain and Co. attacking Obama on experience... I may not agree, but I can understand the attack. But to choose Sarah Palin to be VP after you've spent the better part of a month and a half hitting Obama on experience is ridiculous.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I like Sarah Palin. I think she's a very smart woman as well as an astute politician, and I think she would be a very attractive candidate in the future. However, she's just not ready, and it's not a question of her experience... it's a question of her knowledge base. She hasn't been in the habit of thinking about these national issues and developing her own individual stances. If she were running with a younger, healthier candidate at another time, perhaps... I personally believe that the vice presidency does somewhat lend itself to on the job training. But right now, we are in very turbulent times, the top of the ticket isn't the healthiest person ever, and he will need sage counsel on a myriad of issues. She isn't in the position to provide that right now.
I think it's a pretty good thing when you're comparing the experience of a Presidential Candidate and a VP candidate.

[Cannonball]

This is what I like to see Heilige. Another republican realizing that the republican party is no longer being republican.

Voted 3rd Party people!
When was the last time a 3rd party candidate won a election.

[Hawker]

When was the last time a 3rd party candidate won a election.

When was the last time the democrats or republicans posted a decent candidate?

Probably when Clinton took office. He really didnt really screw up the country.

So since Gore/Bush, there hasnt been one decent candidate on either side. All it takes is people realizing that their candidate (demo/repub) no longer represents them and vote 3rd party to give 3rd parties MORE exposure and hope to destroy the mainstream party system.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is simply not enough for me. It shouldnt be for anybody.

[MaxFly]

I'm just waiting for the first "n!gger" to be dropped by the McCain campaign.

Come on man, I don't think he's that kind of person. I do think he's pissed that he's losing... Look at this from his perspective; he's a war veteran who was captured and tortured; his father and grandfather were 4 star navy admirals; he worked his way up through the house and the senate and is now, 26 years later, one of the most powerful senators in the US; his wife is heiress to a multimillion dollar fortune... yet somehow he's losing to a guy who's been in the senate for 4 years and isn't even the senior senator of his own state... To put it another way, he feels like Hillary felt a few months back. There is a sense that this is owed to him and he just can't believe it's being taken away by someone who hasn't paid the same dues he has.

[SoCalMike]

Denali, how do you feel about the new McCain 300 Billion dollar mortgage buy back? Will it work, and how do you think we will be able to pay for it?

I can't speak for anyone else but that 300 billion dollar mortgage buyout has done me in. I was considering voting for him, but am not really sure anymore.

Its ********. First he embraces that damned $700 billion bailout which his cronies grew to over $850 billion and now he wants the government to buy up even more bad debt.

From a strictly political standpoint, I thought that plan hurts his credibility when he claims "Obama is a big spending liberal" and "I want to cut spending and taxes".

I thought it looked bad that one one question he was cutting spending, and the next question he was spending 300 Billion dollars.

His message is and has been inconsistent, and that is why I think he lost the debate.

"My friends, this is straight talk, I'm going to cut 20 billion in earmarks which don't actually raise the budget one dime and replace it with 300 billion in mortgage buyouts"

HELLO! That is too much socialism for me to handle!

Obama doesn't even have to do anything other than to stand by and watch McCain flounder about. McCain is losing this election all on his own.

Now my friend, you are starting to understand why I have been unhappy with the republican party in general... It is not the same party that I had supported for years and why I am not voting for McCain/Palin.



:pimp:

[SoCalMike]

Come on man, I don't think he's that kind of person. I do think he's pissed that he's losing... Look at this from his perspective; he's a war veteran who was captured and tortured; his father and grandfather were 4 star navy admirals; he worked his way up through the house and the senate and is now, 26 years later, one of the most powerful senators in the US; his wife is heiress to a multimillion dollar fortune... yet somehow he's losing to a guy who's been in the senate for 4 years and isn't even the senior senator of his own state... To put it another way, he feels like Hillary felt a few months back. There is a sense that this is owed to him and he just can't believe it's being taken away by someone who hasn't paid the same dues he has.

His disdain for "that one" is so obvious, its a sign of his weakness. I want my president to look and act presidential, particularly in the face of adversity. If he gets bent over Obama, how is going to look and act in a world stage? How would the world take him seriously?

America needs to be strong in this world with representatives that people respect, not joke about or fear.



:pimp:

[MaxFly]

I think it's a pretty good thing when you're comparing the experience of a Presidential Candidate and a VP candidate.

If the top of your ticket weren't so advanced in age, hadn't had health issues in the past, and these weren't such serious times, there wouldn't be a good reason to compare them. However, all those things are true, and Palin has a very real chance of having of assuming the Presidency of that ticket does win.

Also, I reject your premise that I'm comparing experience. I've made it clear that their respective knowledge base is what is really important. Obama has proven, whether you agree with his stances or not, that he has developed ideas and stances on all of the critical issues facing us. Looks like the majority of the electorate agrees and tends to feel that Obama's stances are better.

[MaxFly]

His disdain for "that one" is so obvious, its a sign of his weakness. I want my president to look and act presidential, particularly in the face of adversity. If he gets bent over Obama, how is going to look and act in a world stage? How would the world take him seriously?

America needs to be strong in this world with representatives that people respect, not joke about or fear.



:pimp:

I agree... I'm not sure he has the proper temperment. The point I was making was that it's not from hatred or deep seated disdain.


Actually, it might be from deep seated disdain. I just don't think that Obama's race is an issue with McCain. It might very well be Obama's age that is the problem.

[MaxFly]

When was the last time the democrats or republicans posted a decent candidate?

Probably when Clinton took office. He really didnt really screw up the country.

So since Gore/Bush, there hasnt been one decent candidate on either side. All it takes is people realizing that their candidate (demo/repub) no longer represents them and vote 3rd party to give 3rd parties MORE exposure and hope to destroy the mainstream party system.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is simply not enough for me. It shouldnt be for anybody.

I happen to think that Gore was a great nominee. You know we only have elections every 4 years, right?

[crisoner]

I happen to think that Gore was a great nominee. You know we only have elections every 4 years, right?

I second this.

The reason Gore lost was because the whole Monica/Bill thing and the GOP pushed family values all that conservative BS and we ended up voting for a dumba$$ named W.

I know people are going to point out Somolia etc. but really it was the whole Monica/Bill fiasco.

[picc84]

Come on man, I don't think he's that kind of person. I do think he's pissed that he's losing... Look at this from his perspective; he's a war veteran who was captured and tortured; his father and grandfather were 4 star navy admirals; he worked his way up through the house and the senate and is now, 26 years later, one of the most powerful senators in the US; his wife is heiress to a multimillion dollar fortune... yet somehow he's losing to a guy who's been in the senate for 4 years and isn't even the senior senator of his own state... To put it another way, he feels like Hillary felt a few months back. There is a sense that this is owed to him and he just can't believe it's being taken away by someone who hasn't paid the same dues he has.

Racial epithets are being dropped at republican campaign events, McCain wont even look at Obama, refers to him as "that one", and he's old as hell, grew up in a time when blacks didnt even have civil rights and were getting sprayed with hoses.

I'm not saying McCain is a racist. But if he is one, I wouldn't be surprised.

Would you?

[picc84]

I happen to think that Gore was a great nominee. You know we only have elections every 4 years, right?

He was. He was so great he won.

Err...sorry, Bush. I mean you won, fair and square.

[Smokee]

I think it's a pretty good thing when you're comparing the experience of a Presidential Candidate and a VP candidate.


lol you do realize the main role of the Vice President has always been to take over the Presidency if something were to happen to the President, right?

All Vice Presidential candidates should be measured mostly on how well they could fulfill that role if anything :hammerhead:

but hey don't let logic stop you from spouting right wing propaganda catch phrases and poor excuses for hypocritical viewpoints.

I do agree with Maxfly that Palin is likable in a way which i didn't realize before the VP debate. She's just leagues below most serious candidates in how she carries herself, her knowledge, and overall experience. But go ahead talk about her 1 year as Governor, and owning a small business, and Alaska being so close to Russia.

[InspiredLebowski]

This is what I like to see Heilige. Another republican realizing that the republican party is no longer being republican.

Voted 3rd Party people!

This goes for Heliege as well, but if there's a silver lining in this for real Conservatives, couldn't it be that if the polls hold true that an entirely new (well, entirely old I suppose) Republican party may come out of this? I've heard R's are losing all over the country in all sorts of former strongholds.

[picc84]

I think people who vote 3rd party are completely retarded. I'm sorry.

You know they have no chance of winning at all. You know this. So why don't you use your vote to where it might actually have some influence? Don't like either dem or repub candidate? Guess what, one of them is going to win anyway. So you might as well vote for who you hate the least. A vote for a third party is useless and pretentious.

[SoCalMike]

This goes for Heliege as well, but if there's a silver lining in this for real Conservatives, couldn't it be that if the polls hold true that an entirely new (well, entirely old I suppose) Republican party may come out of this? I've heard R's are losing all over the country in all sorts of former strongholds.

Honestly, that would be refreshing if its the result... get back to the views of the more traditional Republican party... it would be healthier for the country if this happened!!!!


:pimp:

[InspiredLebowski]

Honestly, that would be refreshing if its the result... get back to the views of the more traditional Republican party... it would be healthier for the country if this happened!!!!


:pimp:

If there were a real "traditional Conservative" candidate I think a lot of people who never considered themselves a Republican would be surprised how much they like what he/she would have to say, a lot of those under 35 or so anyway.

[Smokee]

I second this.

The reason Gore lost was because the whole Monica/Bill thing and the GOP pushed family values all that conservative BS and we ended up voting for a dumba$$ named W.

I know people are going to point out Somolia etc. but really it was the whole Monica/Bill fiasco.


Yeah the religious right wing votes did him in imo. They are a huge voting factor for the right. Its why Mccain took Palin, strictly for those idealistic votes since they weren't supporting Mccain. They are also the dumbest voters imo based on pastors lecturing to their back woods ignorant congregations preaching one sided politics against their religious values.

Gore also got a bad rap for the whole inventing the internet thing everyone always called him out on. I thought he was easily a better candidate than Kerry but he wasn't the best speaker or debater imo. I think Obama and Clinton are clearly superior overall at least in presentation.

[InspiredLebowski]

Gore also got a bad rap for the whole inventing the internet thing everyone always called him out on. I thought he was easily a better candidate than Kerry but he wasn't the best speaker or debater imo. I think Obama and Clinton are clearly superior overall at least in presentation.

I'm surprised no one's bringing up the Obama gaffe about "computers being invented by government scientists looks for a way to communicate," that's the internet. Not a big deal, but given our current nature of "he misspoke, skewer him!" I'm surprised.

[boozehound]

I agree... I'm not sure he has the proper temperment.
I thought it was hilarious yesterday when he was talking about having the patience and balance to deal with delicate international issues. Dude is widely known to have one of the worst tempers in politics and has been known to abuse other senators in a rage. Not your strong suite john

[Heilige]

I think people who vote 3rd party are completely retarded. I'm sorry.

You know they have no chance of winning at all. You know this. So why don't you use your vote to where it might actually have some influence? Don't like either dem or repub candidate? Guess what, one of them is going to win anyway. So you might as well vote for who you hate the least. A vote for a third party is useless and pretentious.


Stop with the ignorant adolescent remarks of a "wasted vote." It is completely illogical to state such. Anyone who states such, is truly showing how ignorant they are, as to the governance of this Republic.

The only people who mock with the waste vote non-sense, are the party loyalist, who continue to allow themselves to be abused.

A vote predicated on principles that this nation was founded on, regardless of circumstance, is never wasted, even if the person you voted for, doesn't get elected.

I'm voting on my principles and those principles don't make it okay to support the lesser of two evils or to sell myself out.

My vote will be earned and not thrown away on someone like McCain or Obama.

[boozehound]

I'm surprised no one's bringing up the Obama gaffe about "computers being invented by government scientists looks for a way to communicate," that's the internet. Not a big deal, but given our current nature of "he misspoke, skewer him!" I'm surprised.
yeah I said that to my wife last night as well.

[Heilige]

Honestly, that would be refreshing if its the result... get back to the views of the more traditional Republican party... it would be healthier for the country if this happened!!!!


:pimp:


:cheers:

[Smokee]

I think people who vote 3rd party are completely retarded. I'm sorry.

You know they have no chance of winning at all. You know this. So why don't you use your vote to where it might actually have some influence? Don't like either dem or repub candidate? Guess what, one of them is going to win anyway. So you might as well vote for who you hate the least. A vote for a third party is useless and pretentious.


I agree but they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are disenchanted with the current Republican party which isn't really conservative anymore, and they are against a lot of the left policies so it doesn't leave them much.

Then theres past partisanship which i think is a pretty big factor with a lot of them maybe supporting the left as the lesser of all evils and making their vote count. Its mainly disenchanted past Republicans it seems that have flocked to Independent. I'll give them more credit than the ones ignorantly sticking to the right, and repeating catch phrases and propaganda like right wing dummy's.

[Smokee]

McCain is going to do what he think is best for the American people. He knows that pork barrel spending is absolutely NOT what the American people want to do, but he seems to think this bail out plan is absolutely necessary.


Also why is no-one talking about Obama being the leading receiver of frannie may and freddie Mac dirty money????


Because of this maybe:

[B][I]Fact Check: Did Obama get second-most money from Freddie and Fannie?
Posted: 10:30 PM ET

The Statement: At a presidential debate Tuesday, October 7 in Nashville, Tennessee, Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said Democratic opponent Sen. Barack Obama and other Democrats resisted regulating mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which ultimately collapsed and had to be taken over by the government. "Meanwhile, they were getting all kinds of money in campaign contributions. Sen. Obama was the second-highest recipient of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac money in history

[Heilige]

I agree but they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are disenchanted with the current Republican party which isn't really conservative anymore, and they are against a lot of the left policies so it doesn't leave them much.

Then theres past partisanship which i think is a pretty big factor with a lot of them maybe supporting the left as the lesser of all evils and making their vote count. Its mainly disenchanted past Republicans it seems that have flocked to Independent. I'll give them more credit than the ones ignorantly sticking to the right, and repeating catch phrases and propaganda like right wing dummy's.


If everyone continues to vote the "lesser of two evils" they never will. There has to be a point when people start to actually be fed up and do something with their vote other than mutter to themselves about how much they dislike voting for that person. I cannot imagine something more to be fed up with from the Republican party for actual conservatives than right now. If the latest events haven't been the perverbial straw, then I don't honestly believe there ever will be one.

People gripe about how third party doesn't have a chance. And in the same breath, they state they won't get involved, until they do have a chance.

Translation = When others have done the grunt work, and get things moving, I will get on board with the program. Until then, I will continue to allow myself to be abused.

20 years of politics and Conservatives have absolutely nothing to show for it. We now have the largest federal government, the largest debt, the largest deficit we have ever had, a financial crisis, a serious looming budget crisis, an energy policy problem. All the work, all the elections, all the money and sweat, for not.

I refuse to participate any longer.

[Smokee]

If everyone continues to vote the "lesser of two evils" they never will. There has to be a point when people start to actually be fed up and do something with their vote other than mutter to themselves about how much they dislike voting for that person. I cannot imagine something more to be fed up with from the Republican party for actual conservatives than right now. If the latest events haven't been the perverbial straw, then I don't honestly believe there ever will be one.

People gripe about how third party doesn't have a chance. And in the same breath, they state they won't get involved, until they do have a chance.

Translation = When others have done the grunt work, and get things moving, I will get on board with the program. Until then, I will continue to allow myself to be abused.

20 years of politics and Conservatives have absolutely nothing to show for it. We now have the largest federal government, the largest debt, the largest deficit we have ever had, a financial crisis, a serious looming budget crisis, an energy policy problem. All the work, all the elections, all the money and sweat, for not.

I refuse to participate any longer.


I can't disagree with you at all. Both sides are right because your vote doesn't really count towards a possible winner this election but someone has to take the first steps for that 3rd party to be eventually viable so more people won't have that same mentality of it not counting later on because so few generally support it.

Can't blame you.

[Smokee]

In and of itself, it is harmless. Parents do not genetically pass on their religious affiliations. However, for a guy who did develop known associations with radicals throughout his life, to me personally it does raise a red flag that he is born of a man who belongs to the most fervently anti-american faith on the planet. How do you really know this is a guy who America can trust? He came to the Senate for four years, hardly voted, and as soon he was able to muster the popularity to make a Presidential run he jumped for it. This guy reeks of an opportunist. I think he has liberals fooled with all his majestic "change washington" sloganisms. I smell a rat plain and simple.


Let me get this straight. So you are generalizing all Muslims as anti-american terrorists, and making the connection that since Obama's father
was muslim even tho Obama himself isn't, that it raises red flags that Obama himself could be a terrorist and anti-American? :oldlol:

That is so laughable in terms of strings of indirect generalizations to reach the conclusion you did its not even funny. Are you retarded or just stupid? :confusedshrug: You're like that video of that backwoods redneck lady sitting at the picnic table with the other rednecks making those same type of accusations.

I think if you generalize that extremely, you must have a lot of things to say about black people in general.

And considering Mccain wasn't present for 3/4's of the Senate votes and led all senators in being absent, criticizing Obama for not taking sides is a poor point to make. But don't let that stop you and your ignorant propaganda~


PS and how the hell can someone start a thread giving you respect for spouting this crap? meh i guess its more than you thats retarded.

[ClutchCityReturns]

I thought it was hilarious yesterday when he was talking about having the patience and balance to deal with delicate international issues. Dude is widely known to have one of the worst tempers in politics and has been known to abuse other senators in a rage. Not your strong suite john

He also said "We don't have time for on the job training" while his VP candidate is the epitome of that concept.

[Posts Penyeach]

Watching these things is really difficult for me.

Watching 2 intelligent people dumb themselves down so profoundly to pick up a few extra votes is really sad and doesn't speak well for our country at all.

I watched the first 45 minutes and neither candidate said one substantial or impressive thing the entire time. And once again neither candidate even pretended to have any interest in answering the question posed to him/her. It's downright pathetic. In high school I took a Comp class and papers were graded on a 0-9 scale. It was next to impossible to score below a 4... but you could write the best paper in the whole class, and if you didn't answer the question, you got a 0. The simplest idiot can get a 2 saying the most obvious, insubstantial stuff, but the smartest kid in the class could ignore the question, write a masterpiece and fail.

Both McCain and Obama failed last night.

And how about those morons asking the questions, huh? Where did they find those people? How do you get into these "town hall" meetings anyway? Town hall my ass anyway, there aren't any real questions or real people in that room.

[SCY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ-tQnUEUE8&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_16064

Can't stop laughing at that question. :roll:

[bagelred]

And how about those morons asking the questions, huh? Where did they find those people? How do you get into these "town hall" meetings anyway? Town hall my ass anyway, there aren't any real questions or real people in that room.

Very true. the whole thing is tightly controlled, essentially staged.