What is the differences between Manu Ginobli and Kobe Bryant?

[1000yearsofPAIN]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

[plowking]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

First of all you were wrong when you said the two best SG the last 5 years.

Second of all you were wrong when you said Ginobli is a better basketball player then Kobe.

Third of all, go away.

[KINGK]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?
Kobe can't deal with Bowen?
Is that why he toched his ass in the 2008 WCF? 29 PPG on 55%.:oldlol:

[exaqtion]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?


One has 75% of the nba watchers on his ****, the other has 2%. But yeah Manu is def. on the same level as Kobe.

[AItheAnswer3]

LOL @ this topic. Overrating of Manu continues.

[KINGK]

One has 75% of the nba watchers on his ****, the other has 2%. But yeah Manu is def. on the same level as Kobe.
:oldlol:

[1000yearsofPAIN]

First of all you were wrong when you said the two best SG the last 5 years.

Second of all you were wrong when you said Ginobli is a better basketball player then Kobe.

Third of all, go away.
Who is then?

And I think Ginobli is a better basketball player, he is always team oriented while Kobe often goes 1 on 5 and takes too many stupid shots and forces things when he doesn't have to. Ginobli is the smarter player and more clutch.

[Nets fan 93]

The difference is a about this much

Kobe















Manu

[plowking]

Who is then?

And I think Ginobli is a better basketball player, he is always team oriented while Kobe often goes 1 on 5 and takes too many stupid shots and forces things when he doesn't have to. Ginobli is the smarter player and more clutch.

How about Wade?

Championship as the best player on an NBA team. Most efficient finals performance ever. Incredible stats.

[TMT]

I'd say Kobe has more consistency and ability to dominate then Manu.

[KINGK]

Who is then?

And I think Ginobli is a better basketball player, he is always team oriented while Kobe often goes 1 on 5 and takes too many stupid shots and forces things when he doesn't have to. Ginobli is the smarter player and more clutch.
3 Championships
5 NBA Finals
9 50+ win seasons.
Pretty good for a guy whose not a team player.:oldlol:

[ronnymac]

Kobe
wade
McGrady

Those are better then gino. then there is AI, joe johonson and carter. i say he is in there range.

AI
JJ
Gino
Carter

[1000yearsofPAIN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT2y3N9sBu8
look at 1:03.

Manu owning Kobe.

Kobe gets the numbers because he always goes for the kill, while Manu coasts and then pulls out the dagger 3s and drives in the 4th quarter if he needs them. In the 4th quarter I would rather have Ginobli than Kobe, seeing as he is less likely to throw up a fadeaway 3 with a hand in his face, and more likely to pass instead of go one on 5, and he is statistically more likely to hit his freethrows, and also shoots 57% in the last 5 minutes of games compared to Kobe shooting 48%.

[lefthook00]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1yaWbVTssQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T64TQw4BUwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb_BNQSjFyg

Posting a clip of Manu getting Kobe means nothing. You have one too many chromosomes.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

How about Wade?

Championship as the best player on an NBA team. Most efficient finals performance ever. Incredible stats.
That is one finals and it might have been a fluke and possibly ref aided, compared to Ginobli and Bryant's multiple finals appearances.

[plowking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT2y3N9sBu8
look at 1:03.

Manu owning Kobe.

Kobe gets the numbers because he always goes for the kill, while Manu coasts and then pulls out the dagger 3s and drives in the 4th quarter if he needs them. In the 4th quarter I would rather have Ginobli than Kobe, seeing as he is less likely to throw up a fadeaway 3 with a hand in his face, and more likely to pass instead of go one on 5, and he is statistically more likely to hit his freethrows, and also shoots 57% in the last 5 minutes of games compared to Kobe shooting 48%.

No one cares. He is not better then him, Wade, Mcgrady and maybe a few others.

[gts]

I think the more important question here 1000yearsofPAIN is why do you have an avatar of a guy about to stick his fingers up another guys a$$

[ronnymac]

That is one finals and it might have been a fluke and possibly ref aided, compared to Ginobli and Bryant's multiple finals appearances.
More like mavs choking and wade taking over.

[KINGK]

36 second point- Kobe destroys Manu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Ir63-4upY

[Scott Pippen]

this is joke topic?:confusedshrug:

[ronnymac]

No one cares. He is not better then him, Wade, Mcgrady and maybe a few others.
AI and even joe Johonson has a case. JJ is a terrefic defender and scorer.

[plowking]

That is one finals and it might have been a fluke and possibly ref aided, compared to Ginobli and Bryant's multiple finals appearances.

How was it ref aided?

Suns fans will complain to you that the Spurs getting in the finals was ref aided. How about Kobe in the series against Sacremento? Ref aided as well. Everything is ref aided.

Get over it. They are official.

Ginobli has never been the best on his team. Duncan is the reason they get there.

Fluke? So you just happen to luckily get 35 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 assists per game? You just happened to have been the most efficient player in a finals series ever through luck?

Now that is just plain stupid. I think that 1000 years of pain you experienced has done something to your head.

[plowking]

I think the more important question here 1000yearsofPAIN is why do you have an avatar of a guy about to stick his fingers up another guys a$$

This is the 1000 years of pain he himself experienced.

[bladefd]

Kobe/Manu were the best 2 SGs in the last 5 years? Somebody is forgetting Dwayne Wade here. What about a guy named Allen Iverson? Richard Hamilton? Tracy McGrady? Do any 3 of those players ring a bell?

Honestly with sarcasm aside, I would say Kobe/Wade were the best 2 SGs in the past 3 years(Before that, AI was up there too in his prime w/ Philly). Manu is not close, and it is almost an insult to put him in the same breath as Kobe/Wade/AI/T-Mac.

[juju151111]

That is one finals and it might have been a fluke and possibly ref aided, compared to Ginobli and Bryant's multiple finals appearances.
lol u think he better then wade too.lmfao

[juju151111]

How was it ref aided?

Suns fans will complain to you that the Spurs getting in the finals was ref aided. How about Kobe in the series against Sacremento? Ref aided as well. Everything is ref aided.

Get over it. They are official.

Ginobli has never been the best on his team. Duncan is the reason they get there.

Fluke? So you just happen to luckily get 35 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 assists per game? You just happened to have been the most efficient player in a finals series ever through luck?

Now that is just plain stupid. I think that 1000 years of pain you experienced has done something to your head.
:applause:

[1000yearsofPAIN]

MacGrady? MacGrady who? Do you mean this guy?
http://kvnuforthepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/n203100315_30076523_6756.jpg
Also what have any of those guys like AI or Joe Johnson done that compares to Ginobli's 3 rings?

[big baller]

kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manu

[highwhey]

LOL @ this topic. Overrating of Manu continues.
^^^

wow...just wow...Manu is officially the most overrated (currently playing) nba player.

[starface]

THis is the thing:

Kobe CAN be a better player than Manu in pretty much every aspect. When he wants to be, he can be a better shooter, better passer, more dangerous with the ball, etc. than Manu. THe problem is, sometimes he doesnt take good shots. Sometimes he doesnt make the right pass. Sometimes he gets too carried away trying to go to the rim.

Kobe doesnt always choose to play the right way, while Manu generally does. This is what closes the gap as the OP is getting at. Kobe tries too hard to live up to being a superstar on the court rather than just winning. Not to mention that putting aside the "team player vs. talent" argument, Manu is a damn good individual talent. The dude has real game. ANd let's acknowledge the elephant in the room here, a lot of people hesitate to put him up there with Kobe, Wade, and McGrady because they inherently doubt that he can be as good as them at their best because he is white.

I agree that Kobe has the ability to be the best swingman in the game, easily. Altho I don't see how people can honestly put Manu below Wade or She-Mac. Wade has no range and She-Mac is a gutless slouch. Manu is at LEAST effective as either of them, and often times is much more effective.

As far as Kobe and Manu, it really comes down to consistency. Kobe isnt consistent, Manu is. By consistent I mean Kobe could easily shut down all competition for "best player" if he only wanted to make a little bit of sacrifice from the high-light reel and just do whats best for the team. He doesnt always do that, so it lessens his team value, IMO. That's just how I see it.

[Godfather]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?
Way to not factor defense into the equation. With the new flopping rule in place everyone will understand how poor of a defender Manu is. Put Kobe Bryant on the Spurs the last year they would have destroyed everyone in the path to the NBA Championship, including the Celtics.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

THis is the thing:

Kobe CAN be a better player than Manu in pretty much every aspect. When he wants to be, he can be a better shooter, better passer, more dangerous with the ball, etc. than Manu. THe problem is, sometimes he doesnt take good shots. Sometimes he doesnt make the right pass. Sometimes he gets too carried away trying to go to the rim.

Kobe doesnt always choose to play the right way, while Manu generally does. This is what closes the gap as the OP is getting at. Kobe tries too hard to live up to being a superstar on the court rather than just winning. Not to mention that putting aside the "team player vs. talent" argument, Manu is a damn good individual talent. The dude has real game. ANd let's acknowledge the elephant in the room here, a lot of people hesitate to put him up there with Kobe, Wade, and McGrady because they inherently doubt that he can be as good as them at their best because he is white.

I agree that Kobe has the ability to be the best swingman in the game, easily. Altho I don't see how people can honestly put Manu below Wade or She-Mac. Wade has no range and She-Mac is a gutless slouch. Manu is at LEAST effective as either of them, and often times is much more effective.

As far as Kobe and Manu, it really comes down to consistency. Kobe isnt consistent, Manu is. By consistent I mean Kobe could easily shut down all competition for "best player" if he only wanted to make a little bit of sacrifice from the high-light reel and just do whats best for the team. He doesnt always do that, so it lessens his team value, IMO. That's just how I see it.
I agree, that Kobe has better skills, and more talent than Ginobli, but it is his stupid decision making, and lack of calmness in clutch situations, and I'm not talking regular season I'm talking playoffs and finals, that are the reasons why I'd take Manu over Kobe. Also Manu's skills and clutchness are being underrated by you guys, how many times have you seen him making crazy 4 point plays and can you believe it drives and shots in the 4th quarter of a close playoff game. Manu, like the rest of his Spurs brethren, coasts during the regular season, and that's why his numbers don't compare to the likes of the Second Round Virgin and Dwayne Wade.

[juju151111]

Why does ISh allow these stpid topics.

[gts]

What is the differences between Manu Ginobli and Kobe Bryant?
Kobe doesn't have a bald spot?

[hardcore (fan)]

I'm going to begin to count how many of these stupid Kobe bashing threads there are per day. So far I'm at three today, lmfao.

[Richie2k6]

I knew Manu was overrated but this is just odd.

[gts]

I'm going to begin to count how many of these stupid Kobe bashing threads there are per day. So far I'm at three today, lmfao.here let me give you a head start. these are from july and part of august, all started by non kobe fans... not all of them are bad threads even a couple good ones but not one was started by a laker fan

Trade Kobe,Sign Lebron?
futurestar35
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96480

Julius Erving or Kobe Bryant, who is considered the better player?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96657

Why do people say don't compare Dwyane Wade to Kobe as if Kobe is much superior?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92862

Lebron, Gasol and Odom
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92231

How many titles will the Trio of Kobe, Gasol and Bynum win?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94919

Are Kobe's individual achievements post-2004 worthy of Top-20 alltime status?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96647

Are Laker fans seriously saying LeBron's supporting cast is better/equal to LA's?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92026

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Kobe Bryant's averages for the 2008 NBA Finals: 25.6/5.0/4.6 on 41% shooting
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92018

Now that the Finals are done, IYO, who was the REAL MVP of the ENTIRE season?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92062

In Kobe's two Finals loses, opposing swingmen won MVP
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92321

Greg Anthony: "You got to remember, Jordan didn't win anything w/o a top-50 teammate"
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92058

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Fact or Ficition: LeBron has outclassed Kobe Bryant during the peak of his career?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97112

Replace the best player from the past 28 Finals losers with Kobe Bryant, and...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97448

Why is Kobe shooting twice as much as Bynum when he's at 44% and Andrew's at 62%?
I'm Sorry, Guys!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70979

Bron wants to be Kobe Bryant
Voice of Reason
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24696

Shaq owns kobe!
shaoyut
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96575

Phil Jackson compares Kobe to MJ
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95830

Are we too hard on Kobe?
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91891

Why doesn't Fisher and Kobe ....
jrcp3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91964

The official "Loki and Know were right all along" thread.
Dizzay
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92025

Kobe fans, Kobe haters, MJ comparisons
NoGunzJustSkillz
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92036

Forbes:LeBron Is More Popular Than Kobe & Jordan
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91224

Kobe Releases Response To Shaq's Rap
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95339

Kobe Bryant is not 6'4, he is 6'6 if not 6'7
VeeCee15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95176

Kobe has the Marty McFly shoes??
ConanRulesNBC
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95168

Kobe Bryant could be a free agent next summer
Posterize246
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94751

Congrads Kobe: You're not even the best player on your team!
poeticism707
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68551

If Kobe and Lebron leave the NBA.....
myfishjustdied
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98987

Well, add one more fan to the Kobe group...
gencbiba
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94338

Kobe Bryant Earns My Respect
Knoe Itawl
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94194

Rumor: Kobe Bryant Affair With Laker Girl Vanessa Curry?
statman32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88767

Bryant won't discuss Shaq or his rap
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93728

Will the Hawks make the playoffs next season? is Joe Johnson > Kobe Bryant ?
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92647

If Kobe Did That....
KingLeBronJames
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93800

If Kobe was your team's GM,...
TheProphet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93499

Kobe responds wih relaxing vacation with his dime of a wife.
bokes15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93196

Kobe Strikes Back!!
Lo1a
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93118

What's really your beef with Kobe? You don't like him because...
QuickTrigger
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93098

Kobe Bryant vs. Zone Defense
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92809

If Kobe Was as Good A Teammates as Steve Francis....
Dasher
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92369

Kobe Bryant vs. Pau Gasol in the Olympics
LoPro4u2c
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92081

Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant
v-unit
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90694

What TEAM would you rather have?
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96725

Kobe Bryant in an NBA fight
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98188

If the Lakers had Iverson instead of Bryant, Would they have a Better Chance?
Sir Charles
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96768

If the Lakers had JJ Reddick instead of Kobe, Would they have a better chance?
stewen12
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96769

ISH Vote: The Truth or Kobe?
The_Truth34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96789

Who has more machismo? Razom Ramon, or Kobe Bryant
$ci
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7307

Kobe's Slam Dunk Title ...Overrated??Hype??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97033

If Iverson Took Part in the 97 Slam Dunk Contest??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97034

Kobe = Priceless
Foster5k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91415

kobe like mayo
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97712

Kobe wanted the Lakers to rape Memphis AND get a bag of chips
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100124

Michael Jordan says he can beat Kobe in his prime.
Noob Saibot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97809

Micahel Jordan said he would crush Kobe in his prime
DreamYaoTmac5
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97945

MJ - "Kobe would win because I'm older... In my Prime? Not even a contest"
Penny4MVP2k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98566

Jordan: 'In My Prime, No Contest' Against Kobe
Attila
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97985

Jordan/Shaq and Kobe/Pippen
dr8ked
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98031

Kobe Bryant lockdown defense article
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98056

Kobe Bryant vs Dwyane Wade
VCMVP1551
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98058

How can we have a Kobe vs Bird thread but not a Kobe vs Vince thread???
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98240

Paul Pierce saying he is the best, not Kobe
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97076

Different standards for Kobe and Dirk?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99893

Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter by the numbers
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98544

Sir Charles or Kobe who is greater?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98036

Kobe to play in Russia for 40 mil/yr?
LBJ 4 MVP
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98347

Kobe to test international market before resigning, who wants him to go?
Manute for Ever!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98966

I thought Kobe was a zone buster?
Diesel J
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99155

if the chinese people knew that kobe...
RainierBeachPoet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99432

Kobe was a bust in the Finals and he's been a bust in Beijing.
LC loves ISH
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99453

Whats was more Impressive Kobe's 81pt Game Or MJ's 69pt Game
lilojmayo
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99734

Paul Pierce outplayed both Kobe and LeBron in the playoffs, so MAYBE he is better.
KobesOneUglyTat
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99934

Kobe isn't even the Best PLayer on the Lakers (statistical evidence provided)
CelticsFan34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100394

im so impressed with laker fans
97 bulls
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101287

[SayTownRy]

after lebron, dirk, and kobe, manu was the highest scorer in the clutch (within 5 points with 5 minutes to play) per 48 minutes.

i've seen him play and not score for an entire half - shot just wouldn't go down. but he managed to rack up 10 assists in that time.

he has to play in controlled spurts, but he can get real loose.

that said, i feel kobe bryant is the better player

[juju151111]

here let me give you a head start. these are from july and part of august, all started by non kobe fans... not all of them are bad threads even a couple good ones but not one was started by a laker fan

Trade Kobe,Sign Lebron?
futurestar35
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96480

Julius Erving or Kobe Bryant, who is considered the better player?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96657

Why do people say don't compare Dwyane Wade to Kobe as if Kobe is much superior?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92862

Lebron, Gasol and Odom
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92231

How many titles will the Trio of Kobe, Gasol and Bynum win?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94919

Are Kobe's individual achievements post-2004 worthy of Top-20 alltime status?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96647

Are Laker fans seriously saying LeBron's supporting cast is better/equal to LA's?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92026

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Kobe Bryant's averages for the 2008 NBA Finals: 25.6/5.0/4.6 on 41% shooting
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92018

Now that the Finals are done, IYO, who was the REAL MVP of the ENTIRE season?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92062

In Kobe's two Finals loses, opposing swingmen won MVP
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92321

Greg Anthony: "You got to remember, Jordan didn't win anything w/o a top-50 teammate"
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92058

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Fact or Ficition: LeBron has outclassed Kobe Bryant during the peak of his career?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97112

Replace the best player from the past 28 Finals losers with Kobe Bryant, and...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97448

Why is Kobe shooting twice as much as Bynum when he's at 44% and Andrew's at 62%?
I'm Sorry, Guys!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70979

Bron wants to be Kobe Bryant
Voice of Reason
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24696

Shaq owns kobe!
shaoyut
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96575

Phil Jackson compares Kobe to MJ
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95830

Are we too hard on Kobe?
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91891

Why doesn't Fisher and Kobe ....
jrcp3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91964

The official "Loki and Know were right all along" thread.
Dizzay
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92025

Kobe fans, Kobe haters, MJ comparisons
NoGunzJustSkillz
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92036

Forbes:LeBron Is More Popular Than Kobe & Jordan
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91224

Kobe Releases Response To Shaq's Rap
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95339

Kobe Bryant is not 6'4, he is 6'6 if not 6'7
VeeCee15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95176

Kobe has the Marty McFly shoes??
ConanRulesNBC
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95168

Kobe Bryant could be a free agent next summer
Posterize246
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94751

Congrads Kobe: You're not even the best player on your team!
poeticism707
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68551

If Kobe and Lebron leave the NBA.....
myfishjustdied
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98987

Well, add one more fan to the Kobe group...
gencbiba
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94338

Kobe Bryant Earns My Respect
Knoe Itawl
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94194

Rumor: Kobe Bryant Affair With Laker Girl Vanessa Curry?
statman32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88767

Bryant won't discuss Shaq or his rap
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93728

Will the Hawks make the playoffs next season? is Joe Johnson > Kobe Bryant ?
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92647

If Kobe Did That....
KingLeBronJames
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93800

If Kobe was your team's GM,...
TheProphet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93499

Kobe responds wih relaxing vacation with his dime of a wife.
bokes15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93196

Kobe Strikes Back!!
Lo1a
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93118

What's really your beef with Kobe? You don't like him because...
QuickTrigger
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93098

Kobe Bryant vs. Zone Defense
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92809

If Kobe Was as Good A Teammates as Steve Francis....
Dasher
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92369

Kobe Bryant vs. Pau Gasol in the Olympics
LoPro4u2c
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92081

Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant
v-unit
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90694

What TEAM would you rather have?
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96725

Kobe Bryant in an NBA fight
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98188

If the Lakers had Iverson instead of Bryant, Would they have a Better Chance?
Sir Charles
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96768

If the Lakers had JJ Reddick instead of Kobe, Would they have a better chance?
stewen12
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96769

ISH Vote: The Truth or Kobe?
The_Truth34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96789

Who has more machismo? Razom Ramon, or Kobe Bryant
$ci
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7307

Kobe's Slam Dunk Title ...Overrated??Hype??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97033

If Iverson Took Part in the 97 Slam Dunk Contest??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97034

Kobe = Priceless
Foster5k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91415

kobe like mayo
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97712

Kobe wanted the Lakers to rape Memphis AND get a bag of chips
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100124

Michael Jordan says he can beat Kobe in his prime.
Noob Saibot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97809

Micahel Jordan said he would crush Kobe in his prime
DreamYaoTmac5
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97945

MJ - "Kobe would win because I'm older... In my Prime? Not even a contest"
Penny4MVP2k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98566

Jordan: 'In My Prime, No Contest' Against Kobe
Attila
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97985

Jordan/Shaq and Kobe/Pippen
dr8ked
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98031

Kobe Bryant lockdown defense article
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98056

Kobe Bryant vs Dwyane Wade
VCMVP1551
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98058

How can we have a Kobe vs Bird thread but not a Kobe vs Vince thread???
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98240

Paul Pierce saying he is the best, not Kobe
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97076

Different standards for Kobe and Dirk?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99893

Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter by the numbers
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98544

Sir Charles or Kobe who is greater?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98036

Kobe to play in Russia for 40 mil/yr?
LBJ 4 MVP
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98347

Kobe to test international market before resigning, who wants him to go?
Manute for Ever!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98966

I thought Kobe was a zone buster?
Diesel J
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99155

if the chinese people knew that kobe...
RainierBeachPoet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99432

Kobe was a bust in the Finals and he's been a bust in Beijing.
LC loves ISH
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99453

Whats was more Impressive Kobe's 81pt Game Or MJ's 69pt Game
lilojmayo
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99734

Paul Pierce outplayed both Kobe and LeBron in the playoffs, so MAYBE he is better.
KobesOneUglyTat
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99934

Kobe isn't even the Best PLayer on the Lakers (statistical evidence provided)
CelticsFan34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100394

im so impressed with laker fans
97 bulls
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101287
Half of those are not even hating?o a non LA fan can't post?

[HisJoeness]

Is all you have to do is put Kobe in a thread title to get all these replies? This topic isn't worthy of all this discussion. Manu v. Kobe? C'mon now let's exercise the intelligent thought you're capable of.

[StroShow4]

3 pages and no one has got it yet.. the difference is simple..


kobe is a rapist, manu is not.











just kidding, just kidding calm down everyone.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Manu and Kobe both have 3 rings. Both are famed for their clutchness. Both have won their rings playing alongside one of the best bigmen of all time. Why is everyone saying the difference between them is so great?

[K.Koscik]

Manu and Kobe both have 3 rings. Both are famed for their clutchness. Both have won their rings playing alongside one of the best bigmen of all time. Why is everyone saying the difference between them is so great?

Because one is a lot better?

[Godfather]

Manu and Kobe both have 3 rings. Both are famed for their clutchness. Both have won their rings playing alongside one of the best bigmen of all time. Why is everyone saying the difference between them is so great?

Because you ****ing idiot Manu Ginobli can not carry a team into the Playoffs in the Wild Wild West without Duncan.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Because you ****ing idiot Manu Ginobli can not carry a team into the Playoffs in the Wild Wild West without Duncan.
Could Kobe do it without Gasol, Bynum and Odom?

Manu has won on all levels, be it Euroleague, Olympics (which btw is impressive, as his Argentina teammates are no where near as talented as team USA but he still lead them to gold) or NBA.
It's not like Duncan made him who he is. Kobe without a top level bigman couldn't get his team out of the first round as the main man.

[K.Koscik]

Could Kobe do it without Gasol, Bynum and Odom?

Manu has won on all levels, be it Euroleague, Olympics (which btw is impressive, as his Argentina teammates are no where near as talented as team USA but he still lead them to gold) or NBA.
It's not like Duncan made him who he is. Kobe without a top level bigman couldn't get his team out of the first round as the main man.

And Ginobili could? If I had to put my money on it, I'd say Kobe has a hell of a lot better chance of leading his team out of the first round as the #1 option opposed to Ginobili. Wait.. is this 2006?

[Godfather]

Could Kobe do it without Gasol, Bynum and Odom?

Manu has won on all levels, be it Euroleague, Olympics (which btw is impressive, as his Argentina teammates are no where near as talented as team USA but he still lead them to gold) or NBA.
It's not like Duncan made him who he is. Kobe without a top level bigman couldn't get his team out of the first round as the main man.
You don't ****ing get it do you Bryant didn't have Gasol or Bynum playing well when he took a peaking Suns team to 7 games. Manu argentinan teamates were playing together for several years together as opposed to the US Bronze team, no to mention they were better aquanted with the rules. Duncan didn't make Manu who he is, but he did make Manu a 3 time champion. If you watched what KG did to Gasol in the Finals I think you will realize he is not a top level big man. And for the last time Kobe's better defense alone does not make this a valid discussion.

[Nash-tastic]

here let me give you a head start. these are from july and part of august, all started by non kobe fans... not all of them are bad threads even a couple good ones but not one was started by a laker fan

Trade Kobe,Sign Lebron?
futurestar35
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96480

Julius Erving or Kobe Bryant, who is considered the better player?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96657

Why do people say don't compare Dwyane Wade to Kobe as if Kobe is much superior?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92862

Lebron, Gasol and Odom
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92231

How many titles will the Trio of Kobe, Gasol and Bynum win?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94919

Are Kobe's individual achievements post-2004 worthy of Top-20 alltime status?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96647

Are Laker fans seriously saying LeBron's supporting cast is better/equal to LA's?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92026

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Kobe Bryant's averages for the 2008 NBA Finals: 25.6/5.0/4.6 on 41% shooting
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92018

Now that the Finals are done, IYO, who was the REAL MVP of the ENTIRE season?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92062

In Kobe's two Finals loses, opposing swingmen won MVP
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92321

Greg Anthony: "You got to remember, Jordan didn't win anything w/o a top-50 teammate"
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92058

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Fact or Ficition: LeBron has outclassed Kobe Bryant during the peak of his career?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97112

Replace the best player from the past 28 Finals losers with Kobe Bryant, and...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97448

Why is Kobe shooting twice as much as Bynum when he's at 44% and Andrew's at 62%?
I'm Sorry, Guys!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70979

Bron wants to be Kobe Bryant
Voice of Reason
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24696

Shaq owns kobe!
shaoyut
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96575

Phil Jackson compares Kobe to MJ
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95830

Are we too hard on Kobe?
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91891

Why doesn't Fisher and Kobe ....
jrcp3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91964

The official "Loki and Know were right all along" thread.
Dizzay
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92025

Kobe fans, Kobe haters, MJ comparisons
NoGunzJustSkillz
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92036

Forbes:LeBron Is More Popular Than Kobe & Jordan
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91224

Kobe Releases Response To Shaq's Rap
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95339

Kobe Bryant is not 6'4, he is 6'6 if not 6'7
VeeCee15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95176

Kobe has the Marty McFly shoes??
ConanRulesNBC
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95168

Kobe Bryant could be a free agent next summer
Posterize246
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94751

Congrads Kobe: You're not even the best player on your team!
poeticism707
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68551

If Kobe and Lebron leave the NBA.....
myfishjustdied
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98987

Well, add one more fan to the Kobe group...
gencbiba
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94338

Kobe Bryant Earns My Respect
Knoe Itawl
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94194

Rumor: Kobe Bryant Affair With Laker Girl Vanessa Curry?
statman32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88767

Bryant won't discuss Shaq or his rap
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93728

Will the Hawks make the playoffs next season? is Joe Johnson > Kobe Bryant ?
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92647

If Kobe Did That....
KingLeBronJames
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93800

If Kobe was your team's GM,...
TheProphet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93499

Kobe responds wih relaxing vacation with his dime of a wife.
bokes15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93196

Kobe Strikes Back!!
Lo1a
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93118

What's really your beef with Kobe? You don't like him because...
QuickTrigger
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93098

Kobe Bryant vs. Zone Defense
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92809

If Kobe Was as Good A Teammates as Steve Francis....
Dasher
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92369

Kobe Bryant vs. Pau Gasol in the Olympics
LoPro4u2c
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92081

Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant
v-unit
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90694

What TEAM would you rather have?
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96725

Kobe Bryant in an NBA fight
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98188

If the Lakers had Iverson instead of Bryant, Would they have a Better Chance?
Sir Charles
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96768

If the Lakers had JJ Reddick instead of Kobe, Would they have a better chance?
stewen12
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96769

ISH Vote: The Truth or Kobe?
The_Truth34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96789

Who has more machismo? Razom Ramon, or Kobe Bryant
$ci
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7307

Kobe's Slam Dunk Title ...Overrated??Hype??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97033

If Iverson Took Part in the 97 Slam Dunk Contest??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97034

Kobe = Priceless
Foster5k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91415

kobe like mayo
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97712

Kobe wanted the Lakers to rape Memphis AND get a bag of chips
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100124

Michael Jordan says he can beat Kobe in his prime.
Noob Saibot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97809

Micahel Jordan said he would crush Kobe in his prime
DreamYaoTmac5
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97945

MJ - "Kobe would win because I'm older... In my Prime? Not even a contest"
Penny4MVP2k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98566

Jordan: 'In My Prime, No Contest' Against Kobe
Attila
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97985

Jordan/Shaq and Kobe/Pippen
dr8ked
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98031

Kobe Bryant lockdown defense article
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98056

Kobe Bryant vs Dwyane Wade
VCMVP1551
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98058

How can we have a Kobe vs Bird thread but not a Kobe vs Vince thread???
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98240

Paul Pierce saying he is the best, not Kobe
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97076

Different standards for Kobe and Dirk?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99893

Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter by the numbers
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98544

Sir Charles or Kobe who is greater?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98036

Kobe to play in Russia for 40 mil/yr?
LBJ 4 MVP
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98347

Kobe to test international market before resigning, who wants him to go?
Manute for Ever!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98966

I thought Kobe was a zone buster?
Diesel J
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99155

if the chinese people knew that kobe...
RainierBeachPoet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99432

Kobe was a bust in the Finals and he's been a bust in Beijing.
LC loves ISH
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99453

Whats was more Impressive Kobe's 81pt Game Or MJ's 69pt Game
lilojmayo
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99734

Paul Pierce outplayed both Kobe and LeBron in the playoffs, so MAYBE he is better.
KobesOneUglyTat
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99934

Kobe isn't even the Best PLayer on the Lakers (statistical evidence provided)
CelticsFan34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100394

im so impressed with laker fans
97 bulls
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101287
Holy mother of God

Back to the topic: Why dont we vote who's the better player, we could have a global vote! Manu will get votes from Argentina while Kobe, hmmm.... Just about everywhere else

[gpfanz]

THis is the thing:

Kobe CAN be a better player than Manu in pretty much every aspect. When he wants to be, he can be a better shooter, better passer, more dangerous with the ball, etc. than Manu. THe problem is, sometimes he doesnt take good shots. Sometimes he doesnt make the right pass. Sometimes he gets too carried away trying to go to the rim.

Kobe doesnt always choose to play the right way, while Manu generally does. This is what closes the gap as the OP is getting at. Kobe tries too hard to live up to being a superstar on the court rather than just winning. Not to mention that putting aside the "team player vs. talent" argument, Manu is a damn good individual talent. The dude has real game. ANd let's acknowledge the elephant in the room here, a lot of people hesitate to put him up there with Kobe, Wade, and McGrady because they inherently doubt that he can be as good as them at their best because he is white.

I agree that Kobe has the ability to be the best swingman in the game, easily. Altho I don't see how people can honestly put Manu below Wade or She-Mac. Wade has no range and She-Mac is a gutless slouch. Manu is at LEAST effective as either of them, and often times is much more effective.

As far as Kobe and Manu, it really comes down to consistency. Kobe isnt consistent, Manu is. By consistent I mean Kobe could easily shut down all competition for "best player" if he only wanted to make a little bit of sacrifice from the high-light reel and just do whats best for the team. He doesnt always do that, so it lessens his team value, IMO. That's just how I see it.

Right thats why i will take Manu over the overrated Kobe as he is the better team player :rockon:

[Godfather]

Right thats why i will take Manu over the overrated Kobe as he is the better team player :rockon:

So if you were starting a team you would take Many Ginobli over Kobe Bryant? Do you understand how stupid that sounds?

[K.Koscik]

Right thats why i will take Manu over the overrated Kobe as he is the better team player :rockon:

:banghead: An overrated Kobe >>>>>> Manu Ginobili

[1000yearsofPAIN]

So if you were starting a team you would take Many Ginobli over Kobe Bryant? Do you understand how stupid that sounds?
Yes, I would, Manu cares more about team success and has a true winners mentality and does whatever it takes to win (yes that includes flopping and cheating when he can) and Kobe without the most dominant basketball force of all time next to him has won nothing, and has proven time and time again that he is more about personally glory then he is team success. Also Manu's clutchness>>>Kobe's clutchness, when's the last time Kobe has hit a game winner, I remember Manu's, it was this year in the playoffs against the Suns, and he completely went off in the 4th quarter to get that game to overtime too.

[Allstar24]

Half of those are not even hating?o a non LA fan can't post?
WTF are you talking about? 85% of the threads gts listed were created with the intention to hate. And the remaining 15% threads turned into full-on Kobe bashing within the first page probably, as it is with every other thread related to him. And people complain about Kobe fanboys :lol

Maybe its time to put up the Kobe Bryant sticky topic so all ridiculous questions and comparisons (such as this one) can be answered in one single topic.

[K.Koscik]

Yes, I would, Manu cares more about team success and has a true winners mentality and does whatever it takes to win (yes that includes flopping and cheating when he can) and Kobe without the most dominant basketball force of all time next to him has won nothing, and has proven time and time again that he is more about personally glory then he is team success. Also Manu's clutchness>>>Kobe's clutchness, when's the last time Kobe has hit a game winner, I remember Manu's, it was this year in the playoffs against the Suns, and he completely went off in the 4th quarter to get that game to overtime too.

When was the last time Kobe's Lakers took down the Spurs in the playoffs? When was the last time Kobe completely outplayed Manu in the playoffs? You're saying Kobe doesn't have a winners mentality? You're dead wrong. You're just a troll, and I put up with you talking about the SKILLSET of the two was similar (though its not), but actually flat out saying you'd take Manu over Kobe and thus saying Manu's a better player then Kobe (ranking Manu top 20 all time :oldlol: :oldlol: ) just puts it over the top. Just stop man, no one agrees with you. Except for the fool that said the same thing you said (coincidence? or alias?)

[Godfather]

Yes, I would, Manu cares more about team success and has a true winners mentality and does whatever it takes to win (yes that includes flopping and cheating when he can) and Kobe without the most dominant basketball force of all time next to him has won nothing, and has proven time and time again that he is more about personally glory then he is team success. Also Manu's clutchness>>>Kobe's clutchness, when's the last time Kobe has hit a game winner, I remember Manu's, it was this year in the playoffs against the Suns.

Manu without one of the most dominant Big man in the post Jordan area has won next to nothing. You say that, but what happened to Manu when the Spurs played against the Lakers. From what I can tell Tony Parker + Duncan >>>Gasol Odom. So that would mean since the Spurs have Manu and he's better than Kobe they would have won right? Wrong they lost in 5 games.

[gpfanz]

So if you were starting a team you would take Many Ginobli over Kobe Bryant? Do you understand how stupid that sounds?

I wouldnt make this statement 5 yrs ago. But since Kobe has accomplished nothing in the post season games. :banghead:

Yes i will take my chances on a team player like Manu :banana:


:banghead: An overrated Kobe >>>>>> Manu Ginobili

Everybody love talented people. I understand that :hammerhead:

[out|hoops|side]

That is one finals and it might have been a fluke and possibly ref aided, compared to Ginobli and Bryant's multiple finals appearances.

Wade was THE best player on that team when they won the finals, it is definitely debatable whether Ginobili has been the best on the teams he has been on that have won. In fact, Duncan is definitely better and Parker might be.
And in the last 5 years? Wade is definitely better than Ginobili, he was the MVP of the finals the year they won it; whereas, the 2 titles the Spurs won in the past 5 years the MVPs went to Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, who are neither of them Ginobili.
How can you honestly watch Wade's play in the last 5 years and not think he is better than Ginobili?
And even more ridiculous is the fact that you think Ginobili is in the same stratosphere as Kobe, arguably the best player in the game right now.

[K.Koscik]

I wouldnt make this statement 5 yrs ago. But since Kobe has accomplished nothing in the post season games. :banghead:

Yes i will take my chances on a team player like Manu :banana:



Everybody love talented people. I understand that :hammerhead:

You're going to take your chances on losing, then. If your teams best player is Manu Ginobili, you will NOT win consistently.

[Rekindled]

Kobe
wade
McGrady

Those are better then gino. then there is AI, joe johonson and carter. i say he is in there range.

AI
JJ
Gino
Carter

er no..
Ginobili is a better player than mcgrady in today's nba. Ginobili has better season stats and have passed first round.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Wade was THE best player on that team when they won the finals, it is definitely debatable whether Ginobili has been the best on the teams he has been on that have won. In fact, Duncan is definitely better and Parker might be.
And in the last 5 years? Wade is definitely better than Ginobili, he was the MVP of the finals the year they won it; whereas, the 2 titles the Spurs won in the past 5 years the MVPs went to Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, who are neither of them Ginobili.
How can you honestly watch Wade's play in the last 5 years and not think he is better than Ginobili?
And even more ridiculous is the fact that you think Ginobili is in the same stratosphere as Kobe, arguably the best player in the game right now.
Wade is also injury prone, and has no range. Ginobli has more rings than Wade as well. That is why I would take him over Wade.

[K.Koscik]

Wade is also injury prone, and has no range. Ginobli has more rings than Wade as well. That is why I would take him over Wade.

None as the best player. The same argument can be made for Kobe, and has been. However, you cannot argue "more rings" for Manu if everyone tears you up for doing it in Kobe's defense.

[Rekindled]

Wade was THE best player on that team when they won the finals, it is definitely debatable whether Ginobili has been the best on the teams he has been on that have won. In fact, Duncan is definitely better and Parker might be.
And in the last 5 years? Wade is definitely better than Ginobili, he was the MVP of the finals the year they won it; whereas, the 2 titles the Spurs won in the past 5 years the MVPs went to Tim Duncan and Tony Parker, who are neither of them Ginobili.
How can you honestly watch Wade's play in the last 5 years and not think he is better than Ginobili?
And even more ridiculous is the fact that you think Ginobili is in the same stratosphere as Kobe, arguably the best player in the game right now.

ginobili should have been the finals mvp in 2005. But whoever were voting were duncan homos.

[Godfather]

Wade is also injury prone, and has no range. Ginobli has more rings than Wade as well. That is why I would take him over Wade.

Wade posted arguably one of the greatest Finals performances ever, Ginonli on the other hand has assisted a player much much greater than himself win championships.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Wade posted arguably one of the greatest Finals performances ever, Ginonli on the other hand has assisted a player much much greater than himself win championships.
Would they have even got to the finals without Ginobli though?

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Wade posted arguably one of the greatest Finals performances ever, Ginonli on the other hand has assisted a player much much greater than himself win championships.
Don't forget that that performance earned D-Wade his new name of D-Whistle, I am not the only one who thinks that was shady, I consider D-Wade's final MVP a bit jaded. Also like I said he is always hurt, and Manu has many more gamewinners and a better history of clutchness than Wade.

[ronnymac]

er no..
Ginobili is a better player than mcgrady in today's nba. Ginobili has better season stats and have passed first round.
lol yeah right. tmacs effect on a basketball team far xceeds ginos. mcgrady led the rockets to 55 wins. gino is a 3rd best player on a team that includes parker and duncan. tmacs a better player. has more impact on a game. almost ever media expert ranks mcgrady higher. you fail.

[gpfanz]

You're going to take your chances on losing, then. If your teams best player is Manu Ginobili, you will NOT win consistently.

You know whats the problem these days. Everybody wants to be the best player. No wonder Shaq left Lakers cause he wants Kobe to be the next best player.

Give me a bunch of team players eg. Dallas, Celtics, Suns, Hornets, Pistons, Spurs & what have u.

I don't want teams with "best players" eg. AI, Carmelo, Vince Carter, McGrady, Baron Davis, Starbury etc.

Lebron James is a really unique player though. I really think he may win it all with some really good role players somehow :banghead:

[K.Koscik]

Would they have even got to the finals without Ginobli though?

Probably.



Don't forget that that performance earned D-Wade his new name of D-Whistle, I am not the only one who thinks that was shady, I consider D-Wade's final MVP a bit jaded. Also like I said he is always hurt, and Manu has many more gamewinners and a better history of clutchness than Wade.

Don't you think it's time to let that go? There's been worse officiating in the history of the NBA, even the playoffs. Every game has bad calls. Give me a youtube list of 10 "Bad, questionable" calls in the series. Let's start with that.

[ronnymac]

MacGrady? MacGrady who? Do you mean this guy?
http://kvnuforthepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/n203100315_30076523_6756.jpg
Also what have any of those guys like AI or Joe Johnson done that compares to Ginobli's 3 rings?
Whats that got to do with who is a better individual player. almost every media expert has mcgrady ahead of gino.

[Godfather]

Would they have even got to the finals without Ginobli though?

:roll:Take Duncan off the Spurs and they would have a consistent Lottery team.

[gts]

I think Manu is better, he won the 6th man award, you know how hard it is to be the best 6th man? it means you're not the most important player on your own team but still played well enough to get some recognition.

Sure Kobe won the MVP but lots of guys have done that, it's easy when you're the best player on your team and you led them to the best record in an incredibly tough conference in one of the tightest most competitive seasons ever.
But there's only so many players who can even be considered an MVP the field is limitied when you're one of say 5 guys in the league who should even be considered for the award how hard can that be? heck he's got a 20% chance of getting the award before the season starts.

but 6th man awards you know how many guys could be considered for that award? theres tons of guys who are worthy of consideration so winning that award is much harder than winning an MVP award, that's why Manu is better

[1000yearsofPAIN]

lol yeah right. tmacs effect on a basketball team far xceeds ginos. mcgrady led the rockets to 55 wins. gino is a 3rd best player on a team that includes parker and duncan. tmacs a better player. has more impact on a game. almost ever media expert ranks mcgrady higher. you fail.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2272/2495500810_27b1b4cb66_o.gif

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07R4feF0ogakd/340x.jpg

http://www.internetconsultingteam.com/eric/images/manu_trophy_050627.jpg

A picture says 1000 words

[K.Koscik]

I think Manu is better, he won the 6th man award, you know how hard it is to be the best 6th man? it means you're not the most important player on your own team but still played well enough to get some recognition.

Sure Kobe won the MVP but lots of guys have done that, it's easy when you're the best player on your team and you led them to the best record in an incredibly tough conference in one of the tightest most competitive seasons ever.
But there's only so many players who can even be considered an MVP the field is limitied when you're one of say 5 guys in the league who should even be considered for the award how hard can that be heck he's got a 20% cahnce of getting the award before the season starts.

but 6th man awards you know how many guys could be considered for that award? theres tons of guys who are worthy of consideration so winning that award is much harder than winning an MVP award, that's why Manu is better


:roll: :roll: :roll: Well, I never looked at it that way. I'm sure OP will be here shortly with a couple more facts such as this.

[gpfanz]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2272/2495500810_27b1b4cb66_o.gif

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07R4feF0ogakd/340x.jpg

http://www.internetconsultingteam.com/eric/images/manu_trophy_050627.jpg

A picture says 1000 words

He cant handle the truth :cheers:

[Jimmy2k8]

What's the difference between Manu and Kobe? Manu flops way too much, while sitting his ass on the bench, where as Kobe is a Top 5 player in the league.


any real intelligent fan would select Kobe over Manu any day.

[Godfather]

A picture says 1000 words

Yes it does.

http://gasolakers.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/tx_tim_duncan_mvp_getty.jpg

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200706/r151985_542621.jpg

Tony Parker is arguably better than Manu. In the NBA he has accomplished more.

[ronnymac]

Manu is a super role player. make him a franchise player and he would wilt. kobe and wade and mcgrady are franchise players who have proved they can carry teams to a wining record.

[K.Koscik]

I'm still waiting for that list proving that Wade's FMVP is tainted. Convince me that Manu is better. You haven't given me facts about Manu at all.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Manu is a super role player. make him a franchise player and he would wilt. kobe and wade and mcgrady are franchise players who have proved they can carry teams to a wining record.
He is the leader on Argentina and lead them to a world championship and an olympic gold medal as the best player on his team, if you were to put him on the Lakers to replace Kobe, they'd probably improve, as Manu is more likely to stick to the gameplan and pass instead of gunning for personal glory and making sure he meets his 30 ppg average every game. Manu is a better clutch player than Kobe as well.

[Jimmy2k8]

Would they have even got to the finals without Ginobli though?


:oldlol:

Don't you mean Tim Duncan? god sakes.

[gpfanz]

What's the difference between Manu and Kobe? Manu flops way too much, while sitting his ass on the bench, where as Kobe is a Top 5 player in the league.


any real intelligent fan would select Kobe over Manu any day.

U never seen a a flopper as good as Manu u mean.

Ok to look really intelligent

Kobe > Manu :roll:

[K.Koscik]

:oldlol:

Don't you mean Tim Duncan? god sakes.

I'm thinking he thinks that Manu is a Boston Big Three effect, where they wouldn't of gotten as far without any one of those three players. Look here, 1000, Manu is the third best player on the Spurs. Kobe is the number one player on the number 1-3 TEAM(since you like talking about teams so much) in the NBA.

[ronnymac]

He is the leader on Argentina and lead them to a world championship and an olympic gold medal as the best player on his team, if you were to put him on the Lakers to replace Kobe, they'd probably improve, as Manu is more likely to stick to the gameplan and pass instead of gunning for personal glory and making sure he meets his 30 ppg average every game. Manu is a better clutch player than Kobe as well.
Actually scola is more of a leader of the pumas

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Actually scola is more of a leader of the pumas
Nowadays he is but he wasn't when they won gold and the world championship.

[K.Koscik]

He is the leader on Argentina and lead them to a world championship and an olympic gold medal as the best player on his team, if you were to put him on the Lakers to replace Kobe, they'd probably improve, as Manu is more likely to stick to the gameplan and pass instead of gunning for personal glory and making sure he meets his 30 ppg average every game. Manu is a better clutch player than Kobe as well.

They'd IMPROVE?? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: They'd be gunning for 8-12 seed in the wild wild west.

[Rekindled]

Actually scola is more of a leader of the pumas

ginobili was the leading scorer and tournament mvp of the 2004 olympic. Leads scoring of all players in 2008 olympic. How is scola a leader.

[out|hoops|side]

Wade is also injury prone, and has no range. Ginobli has more rings than Wade as well. That is why I would take him over Wade.

NO RANGE? You don't watch him play do you? Have you seen his mid-range game? Are you kidding me, he has no range outside the three-point line, but the other 23 feet 9 inches inside of that line he is pretty damn good at shooting from.
So I've nullified or canceled out or proven one of your arguments to be ridiculous. The other one now: Wade is 26 years old, Manu is 31...hmmm Wade definitely could have more rings than Manu by the time all is said and done for BOTH of them.
You lose. Game over.

[Godfather]

ginobili was the leading scorer and tournament mvp of the 2004 olympic. Leads scoring of all players in 2008 olympic. How is scola a leader.

His best performance was against the highest level of competition, Manu on the other hand was lying in the locker room probably faking an injury.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

They'd IMPROVE?? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: They'd be gunning for 8-12 seed in the wild wild west.
Ginobli, Gasol, Bynum and Odom running the triangle how it's supposed to be run instead of running it for the first quarter and then going into Kobe isolations every game? And Manu killing it at the end of every game?

Yes. I think this team would be amazing to watch, all players would be unselfish and play to the triangle very well. Team ball is what wins games, thats why seemingly inferior teams like the Pistons could take out the "Greatest lineup of all time" in Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Payton.

[out|hoops|side]

Would they have even got to the finals without Ginobli though?

No, and the Heat would not have been in the playoffs in 2004 if not for Wade as a rookie.
The Spurs still would have been in the playoffs and done well without Ginobili every time they've been.
The Heat would not have made the playoffs in 2005 if it were not for Wade, they would not have made or won the whole thing in 2006 if it were not for Wade, putting up one of the greater finals performances ever.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

NO RANGE? You don't watch him play do you? Have you seen his mid-range game? Are you kidding me, he has no range outside the three-point line, but the other 23 feet 9 inches inside of that line he is pretty damn good at shooting from.
So I've nullified or canceled out or proven one of your arguments to be ridiculous. The other one now: Wade is 26 years old, Manu is 31...hmmm Wade definitely could have more rings than Manu by the time all is said and done for BOTH of them.
You lose. Game over.
He could also get another season ending injury and come back with no hops or quickness next year and never be the player he was. Don't talk about what ifs just talk about what there is. Manu=3 rings plus a crapload of game winners and dagger 3s.
Wade=1 ring and one referee aided finals.

[out|hoops|side]

ginobili should have been the finals mvp in 2005. But whoever were voting were duncan homos.

Maybe, but because of this obviously it wasn't a clear-cut decision, whereas Wade being the finals MVP in 2006 was a no-brainer.

[Godfather]

He could also get another season ending injury and come back with no hops or quickness next year and never be the player he was. Don't talk about what ifs just talk about what there is. Manu=3 rings plus a crapload of game winners and dagger 3s.
Wade=1 ring and one referee aided finals.
Manu isn't a Finals MVP, so yeah Wade is better hands down. There is no contesting that. It is the same reason Tony Parker is better than Manu, hell there is a better argument for him being better than Kobe than Manu.

[gts]

NO RANGE? You don't watch him play do you? Have you seen his mid-range game? Are you kidding me, he has no range outside the three-point line, but the other 23 feet 9 inches inside of that line he is pretty damn good at shooting from.
So I've nullified or canceled out or proven one of your arguments to be ridiculous. The other one now: Wade is 26 years old, Manu is 31...hmmm Wade definitely could have more rings than Manu by the time all is said and done for BOTH of them.
You lose. Game over.lol you have got to be joking? wade? has wade ever won the 6th man of the year? no so get outta here with that stuff

[K.Koscik]

Ginobli, Gasol, Bynum and Odom running the triangle how it's supposed to be run instead of running it for the first quarter and then going into Kobe isolations every game? And Manu killing it at the end of every game?

Yes. I think this team would be amazing to watch, all players would be unselfish and play to the triangle very well. Team ball is what wins games, thats why seemingly inferior teams like the Pistons could take out the "Greatest lineup of all time" in Kobe, Shaq, Malone, and Payton.

Except both Malone and Payton were old and not even close to as effective as when they were.

You act like Kobe averages 0 apg. He's getting the better part of 6. In the triangle where everyone passes and is designed for everyone to touch the ball.

Manu averages 4.5 apg, and no, he does NOT have a dominant passing point guard to play with. He has a score first point. Shouldn't that = more assists for the "totally unselfish" Ginobili?

[Lakers]

An MVP trophy and 2 inches of beak.

[out|hoops|side]

He could also get another season ending injury and come back with no hops or quickness next year and never be the player he was. Don't talk about what ifs just talk about what there is. Manu=3 rings plus a crapload of game winners and dagger 3s.
Wade=1 ring and one referee aided finals.

Now I know you don't watch Wade play, you don't think Wade has a highlight reel full of game winners and daggers dating back to his rookie season?

In case you don't actually watch him play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgqCuLcpFQw

pay special attention to number 6 and 3, those are just 2 (which are gamewinners) out of the 10 best plays of his playoff career.

Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWIOexmEZmM

gamewinner against Utah

There are tons of these, so don't use crap like gamewinners to say who is better, Wade will match Manu, if not beat him, shot-for-shot.

Again, you said best in the last 5 years, Wade has won one ring to Manu's two in the last 5 years. And Wade was clearly the best player on his team, every single time he lead Miami to the playoffs. Manu was not the best player on his team, and it wasn't very close.
Sure the refs might have helped him, but again you clearly don't watch Wade play, as he played unbelievably amazing in that Finals, every game, against the Mavs.

[out|hoops|side]

lol you have got to be joking? wade? has wade ever won the 6th man of the year? no so get outta here with that stuff

You are being sarcastic, right?

[Godfather]

You are being sarcastic, right?

Yeah he is. I suggest everyone reports the thread starter, and rid ISH of this trash.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Except both Malone and Payton were old and not even close to as effective as when they were.

You act like Kobe averages 0 apg. He's getting the better part of 6. In the triangle where everyone passes and is designed for everyone to touch the ball.

Manu averages 4.5 apg, and no, he does NOT have a dominant passing point guard to play with. He has a score first point. Shouldn't that = more assists for the "totally unselfish" Ginobili?
You mistake what I mean. In crunch time, Kobe has tunnel vision for the basket, that is one of his strengths but also his biggest weakness. Also Kobe always goes for personal glory even if it means possibly losing the game, witness the chuckfest that was the 2008 NBA Finals. Do you think that Ginobli couldn't go out there and chuck a bunch of jumpers if he wanted to? Kobe forces things in crunch time, while Manu is much more calm and fluid and sticks the the game plan. Look at these clutch stats. If you were to take 48 minutes of clutch play (game within 5, the last 5 minutes) over the 2007-2008 season Ginobli would average 10.8 assists per game while Kobe only averages 6. Translation? Gino passes while Kobe shot jacks. Not only that, but Ginobli shoots an incredible 57% in crunch time, the highest in the league, while our dear friend Kobe shoots 44%.

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

[gts]

You are being sarcastic, right?no, you know how hard it is for a guy with a bald spot to win 6th man?

[ronnymac]

ginobili was the leading scorer and tournament mvp of the 2004 olympic. Leads scoring of all players in 2008 olympic. How is scola a leader.
Scola is the leader because he sets the tone. watch the game against the dream team. he does everything. he makes the big plays. he is the leader. they all look upto him.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

no, you know how hard it is for a guy with a bald spot to win 6th man?
Manu shoots 57% in the clutch while Kobe only shoots 44%.

[out|hoops|side]

no, you know how hard it is for a guy with a bald spot to win 6th man?

Lol, aight.
Don't forget Manu has also won a finals MVP!

[Godfather]

Manu shoots 57% in the clutch while Kobe only shoots 44%.

Shaq shoots 33% in the clutch..would you take Manu over a Prime Shaq?

Horry shoots 89% in the Clutch..would you take him over a Prime Jordan?

[Godfather]

Lol, aight.
Don't forget Manu has also won a finals MVP!

That doesn't work because he hasn't; that was his teammate Tony Parker.

[K.Koscik]

You mistake what I mean. In crunch time, Kobe has tunnel vision for the basket, that is one of his strengths but also his biggest weakness. Also Kobe always goes for personal glory even if it means possibly losing the game, witness the chuckfest that was the 2008 NBA Finals. Do you think that Ginobli couldn't go out there and chuck a bunch of jumpers if he wanted to? Kobe forces things in crunch time, while Manu is much more calm and fluid and sticks the the game plan. Look at these clutch stats. If you were to take 48 minutes of clutch play (game within 5, the last 5 minutes) over the 2007-2008 season Ginobli would average 10.8 assists per game while Kobe only averages 6. Translation? Gino passes while Kobe shot jacks. Not only that, but Ginobli shoots an incredible 57% in crunch time, the highest in the league, while our dear friend Kobe shoots 44%.

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

So you're changing you're argument from "Ginobili is a better overall player then Kobe" to "Ginobili is better in the clutch". Make up your mind.

Bear this in mind as well, does that 57% FG% have anything to do with having Tim Duncan in the post, as well as Tony Parker to pass to?
Who does Kobe really have to pass to for a CLUTCH bucket in the game? Gasol? Sometimes and he's not even very effective. Odom? No. Bynum? Didn't even play.

Kobe's a better overall player, and has much more defensive pressure on him in the clutch. Kobe doesn't go for personal glory all the time, what are you talking about? That's a one way ticket OUT of the playoffs. I'd say he got pretty far. There's a reason that the Spurs weren't in the Finals. That reason is Kobe. Kobe showed up Manu, not the other way around. Kobe was the one that brought back the Lakers from down 20+ against your beloved Spurs. Manu did what in that 4th quarter after Kobe put that dagger from the paint into the basket to seal the comeback? Brick a three? Where was the clutch there? If Manu's a better player than Kobe, then that means the Spurs have two players that are debateably better than Kobe. And since Kobe doesn't pass and chucks and doesn't show up, the Spurs should've won easily. Right? Wrong. Kobe led his team to a big 4-1 win over the Spurs.

[gts]

Manu shoots 57% in the clutch while Kobe only shoots 44%.that's a great point i agree 100%...

just imagine how good manu would be if everyone wasn't focused on stopping him (the guy with the bald spot) hell he might even be able to shoot 75% in the clutch!...

man i can't see why duncan and parker don't score more with all the guys covering manu in the clutch... for a guy with a bald spot being double and sometimes triple teamed in the clutch moments of the game he is amazing isn't he?

i bet kobe is even jealous he doesn't draw that type of attention in the final moments of a close game...

[Godfather]

So you're changing you're argument from "Ginobili is a better overall player then Kobe" to "Ginobili is better in the clutch". Make up your mind.

Bear this in mind as well, does that 57% FG% have anything to do with having Tim Duncan in the post, as well as Tony Parker to pass to?
Who does Kobe really have to pass to for a CLUTCH bucket in the game? Gasol? Sometimes and he's not even very effective. Odom? No. Bynum? Didn't even play.

Kobe's a better overall player, and has much more defensive pressure on him in the clutch. Kobe doesn't go for personal glory all the time, what are you talking about? That's a one way ticket OUT of the playoffs. I'd say he got pretty far. There's a reason that the Spurs weren't in the Finals. That reason is Kobe. Kobe showed up Manu, not the other way around. Kobe was the one that brought back the Lakers from down 20+ against your beloved Spurs. Manu did what in that 4th quarter after Kobe put that dagger from the paint into the basket to seal the comeback? Brick a three? Where was the clutch there? If Manu's a better player than Kobe, then that means the Spurs have two players that are debateably better than Kobe. And since Kobe doesn't pass and chucks and doesn't show up, the Spurs should've won easily. Right? Wrong. Kobe led his team to a big 4-1 win over the Spurs.

Excellent Post..Repped

[K.Koscik]

That doesn't work because he hasn't; that was his teammate Tony Parker.

Oh so what you're saying is even Tony Parker outplayed Manu in the playoffs, where the OP claims is Manu's time to shine? Very interesting!!

TD FMVP's... 3

TP FMVP's... 1

MG FMVP's... 0?????


It's gotta be rigged. I mean, if the Spurs wouldn't even get to the Finals without Manu, he should have a Finals MVP, right? Out of the four titles they won?

[out|hoops|side]

That doesn't work because he hasn't; that was his teammate Tony Parker.

No, it does work: Finals MVP of 2001 Euroleague League Championship.

[ronnymac]

kobe
wade
Mcgrady are all better then gino. anyone with any brain can tell you that. why argue with this guy. he is argentinian and a mad gino supporter.

[Da_Realist]

I think Manu is better, he won the 6th man award, you know how hard it is to be the best 6th man? it means you're not the most important player on your own team but still played well enough to get some recognition.

Sure Kobe won the MVP but lots of guys have done that, it's easy when you're the best player on your team and you led them to the best record in an incredibly tough conference in one of the tightest most competitive seasons ever.
But there's only so many players who can even be considered an MVP the field is limitied when you're one of say 5 guys in the league who should even be considered for the award how hard can that be? heck he's got a 20% chance of getting the award before the season starts.

but 6th man awards you know how many guys could be considered for that award? theres tons of guys who are worthy of consideration so winning that award is much harder than winning an MVP award, that's why Manu is better

Well done. :applause: :applause:

[out|hoops|side]

I think Manu is better, he won the 6th man award, you know how hard it is to be the best 6th man? it means you're not the most important player on your own team but still played well enough to get some recognition.

Sure Kobe won the MVP but lots of guys have done that, it's easy when you're the best player on your team and you led them to the best record in an incredibly tough conference in one of the tightest most competitive seasons ever.
But there's only so many players who can even be considered an MVP the field is limitied when you're one of say 5 guys in the league who should even be considered for the award how hard can that be? heck he's got a 20% chance of getting the award before the season starts.

but 6th man awards you know how many guys could be considered for that award? theres tons of guys who are worthy of consideration so winning that award is much harder than winning an MVP award, that's why Manu is better

cosign

[K.Koscik]

OP's done. Perhaps he realized he's very incorrect. Cut your losses and went home. GJ GJ.

[Kobe24]

Delete this thread. Comparing Manu to Kobe is just disrespectful.

[SoCalMike]

that's a great point i agree 100%...

just imagine how good manu would be if everyone wasn't focused on stopping him (the guy with the bald spot) hell he might even be able to shoot 75% in the clutch!...

man i can't see why duncan and parker don't score more with all the guys covering manu in the clutch... for a guy with a bald spot being double and sometimes triple teamed in the clutch moments of the game he is amazing isn't he?

i bet kobe is even jealous he doesn't draw that type of attention in the final moments of a close game...

ha, well done... you don't need my help!

notice how you have not and will not receive a rebuttal to this.... everyone knows that manu is the focus of that offense.

my work is done here...:rolleyes:



:pimp:

[3stat2]

I'd say the difference is as clear as night and day... or should I say, black and white

[selrahc]

if kobe had tim duncan, tony parker, and bruce bowen on his team it wouldn't even be fair...

you'd be calling kobe the greatest player of all time

[Kiddlovesnets]

The difference is that Manu play more similar b-ball to MJ than Kobe does.

[Vragrant]

Even though I despise Bryant with a passion hes clearly a better player than Manu, however I dont think Bryant is more clutch than Ginobili. Especially at the line. I dont think Ginobili has ever missed a crucial free throw in his career.

[TmacsRockets]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

Tmac is better than both.

[Killer_Instinct]

So, what did everyone have to eat today? I had spaghetti. It was so so, could've been better. Not enough cheese IMO.

[TMac&Luther]

Pancakes........lots and lots of pancakes.

[Killer_Instinct]

Pancakes........lots and lots of pancakes.


You're on it. Pancakes are piff, man. I don't get why people perfer Waffles over 'em. I actually like the Aunt Gemima syrup the best. Can't get enough of it. I got a friend that eats his without syrup smh. Don't know how they do it. Might have me a few pancakes tommorow.

[HisJoeness]

speaking of pancakes who in the hell decided it was cool to make *shudders* butter flavored syrup. that **** tastes nothin like regular syrup and butter. the butter flavored syrup needs to stop. . .like now

[JtotheIzzo]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

die

[Killer_Instinct]

speaking of pancakes who in the hell decided it was cool to make *shudders* butter flavored syrup. that **** tastes nothin like regular syrup and butter. the butter flavored syrup needs to stop. . .like now


I agree, man. Truth be told though, I was skeptical about the Strawberry syrup. I had some a few weeks ago at IHOP, and the shit was right.:bowdown: I'd slap someone though if they came around here with Butter Syrup.

[HisJoeness]

I agree, man. Truth be told though, I was skeptical about the Strawberry syrup. I had some a few weeks ago at IHOP, and the shit was right.:bowdown: I'd slap someone though if they came around here with Butter Syrup.

You ain't neva lie about that strawberry syrup. It's almost like a "voila!" moment the first time you have it and makes you wonder why you never bothered to try it before. I know it did wit me

[Lebron23]

Please ban this retard. He's just another waste of Bandwidth.

[bdreason]

Kobe has 3 rings as the 2nd man.

Manu has 3 rings as the 3rd man.

[nek1477]

speaking of pancakes who in the hell decided it was cool to make *shudders* butter flavored syrup. that **** tastes nothin like regular syrup and butter. the butter flavored syrup needs to stop. . .like now

Has anybody had crepes lately? i had them the other day at Ihop, i had one order which was 3 big crepes, filled with blueberry, cranberry, and strawberry sauce, ate those bad boys with a big glass of milk, they were delicious :banana:

[SayTownRy]

The difference is that Manu play more similar b-ball to MJ than Kobe does.

i may not like your views on tony parker, but i love your opinion of manu man

:cheers: :rockon:

[AJ2k8]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

I really disagree with this...Manu flops from the slightest of contact and kobe shoots into jumping defenders and you think kobe gets better treatment?!?:no:

[ronnymac]

Tmac is better than both.
Youre agenda of making tmac look bad by making stupid comments like this are obvious. you're that weiordo tmacyaokob fella. you go around making dumbass to make people hate mcgrady. we know you're a yao-only-fan with an agenda.

[KINGK]

here let me give you a head start. these are from july and part of august, all started by non kobe fans... not all of them are bad threads even a couple good ones but not one was started by a laker fan

Trade Kobe,Sign Lebron?
futurestar35
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96480

Julius Erving or Kobe Bryant, who is considered the better player?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96657

Why do people say don't compare Dwyane Wade to Kobe as if Kobe is much superior?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92862

Lebron, Gasol and Odom
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92231

How many titles will the Trio of Kobe, Gasol and Bynum win?
TmacsRockets
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94919

Are Kobe's individual achievements post-2004 worthy of Top-20 alltime status?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96647

Are Laker fans seriously saying LeBron's supporting cast is better/equal to LA's?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92026

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Kobe Bryant's averages for the 2008 NBA Finals: 25.6/5.0/4.6 on 41% shooting
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92018

Now that the Finals are done, IYO, who was the REAL MVP of the ENTIRE season?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92062

In Kobe's two Finals loses, opposing swingmen won MVP
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92321

Greg Anthony: "You got to remember, Jordan didn't win anything w/o a top-50 teammate"
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92058

You just got to love...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92930

Fact or Ficition: LeBron has outclassed Kobe Bryant during the peak of his career?
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97112

Replace the best player from the past 28 Finals losers with Kobe Bryant, and...
Primal Fear
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97448

Why is Kobe shooting twice as much as Bynum when he's at 44% and Andrew's at 62%?
I'm Sorry, Guys!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70979

Bron wants to be Kobe Bryant
Voice of Reason
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24696

Shaq owns kobe!
shaoyut
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96575

Phil Jackson compares Kobe to MJ
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95830

Are we too hard on Kobe?
Da_Realist
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91891

Why doesn't Fisher and Kobe ....
jrcp3
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91964

The official "Loki and Know were right all along" thread.
Dizzay
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92025

Kobe fans, Kobe haters, MJ comparisons
NoGunzJustSkillz
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92036

Forbes:LeBron Is More Popular Than Kobe & Jordan
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91224

Kobe Releases Response To Shaq's Rap
Interminator
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95339

Kobe Bryant is not 6'4, he is 6'6 if not 6'7
VeeCee15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95176

Kobe has the Marty McFly shoes??
ConanRulesNBC
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95168

Kobe Bryant could be a free agent next summer
Posterize246
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94751

Congrads Kobe: You're not even the best player on your team!
poeticism707
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68551

If Kobe and Lebron leave the NBA.....
myfishjustdied
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98987

Well, add one more fan to the Kobe group...
gencbiba
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94338

Kobe Bryant Earns My Respect
Knoe Itawl
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94194

Rumor: Kobe Bryant Affair With Laker Girl Vanessa Curry?
statman32
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88767

Bryant won't discuss Shaq or his rap
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93728

Will the Hawks make the playoffs next season? is Joe Johnson > Kobe Bryant ?
doinitbig06
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92647

If Kobe Did That....
KingLeBronJames
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93800

If Kobe was your team's GM,...
TheProphet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93499

Kobe responds wih relaxing vacation with his dime of a wife.
bokes15
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93196

Kobe Strikes Back!!
Lo1a
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93118

What's really your beef with Kobe? You don't like him because...
QuickTrigger
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93098

Kobe Bryant vs. Zone Defense
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92809

If Kobe Was as Good A Teammates as Steve Francis....
Dasher
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92369

Kobe Bryant vs. Pau Gasol in the Olympics
LoPro4u2c
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92081

Lebron James vs Kobe Bryant
v-unit
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90694

What TEAM would you rather have?
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96725

Kobe Bryant in an NBA fight
aznboy2k2
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98188

If the Lakers had Iverson instead of Bryant, Would they have a Better Chance?
Sir Charles
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96768

If the Lakers had JJ Reddick instead of Kobe, Would they have a better chance?
stewen12
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96769

ISH Vote: The Truth or Kobe?
The_Truth34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96789

Who has more machismo? Razom Ramon, or Kobe Bryant
$ci
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7307

Kobe's Slam Dunk Title ...Overrated??Hype??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97033

If Iverson Took Part in the 97 Slam Dunk Contest??
23jordan23
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97034

Kobe = Priceless
Foster5k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91415

kobe like mayo
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97712

Kobe wanted the Lakers to rape Memphis AND get a bag of chips
loot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100124

Michael Jordan says he can beat Kobe in his prime.
Noob Saibot
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97809

Micahel Jordan said he would crush Kobe in his prime
DreamYaoTmac5
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97945

MJ - "Kobe would win because I'm older... In my Prime? Not even a contest"
Penny4MVP2k
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98566

Jordan: 'In My Prime, No Contest' Against Kobe
Attila
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97985

Jordan/Shaq and Kobe/Pippen
dr8ked
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98031

Kobe Bryant lockdown defense article
Scott Pippen
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98056

Kobe Bryant vs Dwyane Wade
VCMVP1551
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98058

How can we have a Kobe vs Bird thread but not a Kobe vs Vince thread???
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98240

Paul Pierce saying he is the best, not Kobe
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97076

Different standards for Kobe and Dirk?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99893

Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter by the numbers
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98544

Sir Charles or Kobe who is greater?
Piercethetruth
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98036

Kobe to play in Russia for 40 mil/yr?
LBJ 4 MVP
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98347

Kobe to test international market before resigning, who wants him to go?
Manute for Ever!
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98966

I thought Kobe was a zone buster?
Diesel J
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99155

if the chinese people knew that kobe...
RainierBeachPoet
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99432

Kobe was a bust in the Finals and he's been a bust in Beijing.
LC loves ISH
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99453

Whats was more Impressive Kobe's 81pt Game Or MJ's 69pt Game
lilojmayo
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99734

Paul Pierce outplayed both Kobe and LeBron in the playoffs, so MAYBE he is better.
KobesOneUglyTat
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99934

Kobe isn't even the Best PLayer on the Lakers (statistical evidence provided)
CelticsFan34
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100394

im so impressed with laker fans
97 bulls
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101287
Look at all the threads made by well known Kobe haters yet people complain about Kobe fans.:violin:

[1000yearsofPAIN]

So you're changing you're argument from "Ginobili is a better overall player then Kobe" to "Ginobili is better in the clutch". Make up your mind.

Bear this in mind as well, does that 57% FG% have anything to do with having Tim Duncan in the post, as well as Tony Parker to pass to?
Who does Kobe really have to pass to for a CLUTCH bucket in the game? Gasol? Sometimes and he's not even very effective. Odom? No. Bynum? Didn't even play.

Kobe's a better overall player, and has much more defensive pressure on him in the clutch. Kobe doesn't go for personal glory all the time, what are you talking about? That's a one way ticket OUT of the playoffs. I'd say he got pretty far. There's a reason that the Spurs weren't in the Finals. That reason is Kobe. Kobe showed up Manu, not the other way around. Kobe was the one that brought back the Lakers from down 20+ against your beloved Spurs. Manu did what in that 4th quarter after Kobe put that dagger from the paint into the basket to seal the comeback? Brick a three? Where was the clutch there? If Manu's a better player than Kobe, then that means the Spurs have two players that are debateably better than Kobe. And since Kobe doesn't pass and chucks and doesn't show up, the Spurs should've won easily. Right? Wrong. Kobe led his team to a big 4-1 win over the Spurs.
I don't think I've ever said that Manu is more talented or has better skills, but it is his big game ability, calmness under pressure, winners mentality (as in he does whatever it takes to win, flop, cheat, whatever) and and smart decision making makes me think he is a more effective player than Kobe.

I don't doubt Kobe's skills or talent, he is possible the most skilled and talented player in the league, but it is decision making and need to be "the man" and chokery on the big stage that would make me choose Manu over him.

[ronnymac]

I don't think I've ever said that Manu is more talented or has better skills, but it is his big game ability, calmness under pressure, winners mentality (as in he does whatever it takes to win, flop, cheat, whatever) and and smart decision making makes me think he is a more effective player than Kobe.

I don't doubt Kobe's skills or talent, he is possible the most skilled and talented player in the league, but it is decision making and need to be "the man" and chokery on the big stage that would make me choose Manu over him.
No lebron is the best in the league interms of talent. 6'9 beast who can run the PG point position if needed be , rebound, score, defend you name it he does it.. he can do it all. its amazing the type of things he does for someone that size.

[plowking]

I don't think I've ever said that Manu is more talented or has better skills, but it is his big game ability, calmness under pressure, winners mentality (as in he does whatever it takes to win, flop, cheat, whatever) and and smart decision making makes me think he is a more effective player than Kobe.

I don't doubt Kobe's skills or talent, he is possible the most skilled and talented player in the league, but it is decision making and need to be "the man" and chokery on the big stage that would make me choose Manu over him.

All his wins are ref assisted.

He cheats.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

No lebron is the best in the league interms of talent. 6'9 beast who can run the PG point position if needed be , rebound, score, defend you name it he does it.. he can do it all. its amazing the type of things he does for someone that size.
But he doesn't have the skill Kobe does. Ok this can turn it into a Lebron vs Kobe argument and I don't want that so I will just agree with you about Lebron. Also I would call cheating different from ref assisted. Cheating is getting away with something. Being ref assisted is getting bailed out by the refs every time you go to the hole throw up a circus shot and look stupid missing it, like Bron Bron for example.

[plowking]

But he doesn't have the skill Kobe does. Ok this can turn it into a Lebron vs Kobe argument and I don't want that so I will just agree with you about Lebron. Also I would call cheating different from ref assisted. Cheating is getting away with something. Being ref assisted is getting bailed out by the refs every time you go to the hole throw up a circus shot and look stupid missing it, like Bron Bron for example.

OK, now show me 10 assisted calls in favour of Dwyane Wade in those finals. Hell even for the whole Miami team.

Go on. 10 youtube links to the assisted calls.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

OK, now show me 10 assisted calls in favour of Dwyane Wade in those finals. Hell even for the whole Miami team.

Go on. 10 youtube links to the assisted calls.
did you forget this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7nnMjk03b4
Note how the editor of the video CONVENIENTLY edits out the closeup of the replay that shows it wasn't a foul.

When a player is doubleteamed and out of control, you don

[RonySeikalyFTW]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

Wow. Just... wow. I'm gonna start a Bruce Bowen > Carmelo Anthony thread.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Wow. Just... wow. I'm gonna start a Bruce Bowen > Carmelo Anthony thread.
Bruce Bowen no, but Tayshaun Prince, yes.

[plowking]

[QUOTE=1000yearsofPAIN]did you forget this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7nnMjk03b4
Note how the editor of the video CONVENIENTLY edits out the closeup of the replay that shows it wasn't a foul.

When a player is doubleteamed and out of control, you don

[plowking]

Furthermore, here is an ESPN journalist, who like you was convinced that there was no foul. Though after recieving a video in super slow mo and from the other angle (right behind Wade and Nowitzki) he agrees that there was a massive shove on Wade.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-305/The-Salvatore-Side-of-the-Story---Crucified--in-the-2006-Finals.html


Here is a quote from the article:

"I watched it with Salvatore. Frankly, everyone in the room, looking at this video, thought it was a decent call. He added: "I want you to do one thing. Look at Dirk. Dirk knows that he fouled him. You don't see any reaction from Dirk at all. Dirk knew."

[shawbryant]

I didn't know they were ever on the same level before.

[Jimmy2k8]

as in he does whatever it takes to win, flop, cheat, whatever) and and smart decision making makes me think he is a more effective player than Kobe.


So flopping is considered a smart decision skill in order to win games? So where was his flopping in the conference finals against the Lakers? :rolleyes:

[SayTownRy]

All his wins are ref assisted.

He cheats.

huh? :confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

[QUOTE=1000yearsofPAIN]did you forget this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7nnMjk03b4
Note how the editor of the video CONVENIENTLY edits out the closeup of the replay that shows it wasn't a foul.

When a player is doubleteamed and out of control, you don

[juju151111]

Furthermore, here is an ESPN journalist, who like you was convinced that there was no foul. Though after recieving a video in super slow mo and from the other angle (right behind Wade and Nowitzki) he agrees that there was a massive shove on Wade.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-305/The-Salvatore-Side-of-the-Story---Crucified--in-the-2006-Finals.html


Here is a quote from the article:

"I watched it with Salvatore. Frankly, everyone in the room, looking at this video, thought it was a decent call. He added: "I want you to do one thing. Look at Dirk. Dirk knows that he fouled him. You don't see any reaction from Dirk at all. Dirk knew."
:applause: good post

[HisJoeness]

Has anybody had crepes lately? i had them the other day at Ihop, i had one order which was 3 big crepes, filled with blueberry, cranberry, and strawberry sauce, ate those bad boys with a big glass of milk, they were delicious :banana:

I want to try the crepes, are they limited time only thing?

[rivers to gates]

One is busting people up one on one and the other is putting up good numbers as a robin.Think that about sums it up.

[Allstar24]

When did this turn into a Wade and the refs vs. the Mavs thread?

[HisJoeness]

When did this turn into a Wade and the refs vs. the Mavs thread?

I agree we need to get back to talkin about IHOP and their pancakes.

[gpfanz]

I really disagree with this...Manu flops from the slightest of contact and kobe shoots into jumping defenders and you think kobe gets better treatment?!?:no:

The refs must be morons then its not Manu's fault :banana:


^^^

wow...just wow...Manu is officially the most overrated (currently playing) nba player.

I think its Kobe :violin:


did you forget this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7nnMjk03b4
Note how the editor of the video CONVENIENTLY edits out the closeup of the replay that shows it wasn't a foul.

When a player is doubleteamed and out of control, you don’t bail him out by calling a foul, even when he is fouled.

You ESPECIALLY don’t when that player is touch fouled.

You REALLY ESPECIALLY don’t when that player isn’t even touched.

You REALLY REALLY ESPECIALLY don’t with 2 seconds left. In overtime.

You REALLY REALLY ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY don’t in Game 5 of the NBA Finals.


Don't forget about this little gem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83IQlYGMDZY&feature=related

Learn to stay infront of Wade for a start

I tot the player on the offensive end always have the advantage no?

[ihatetmac2524]

The refs must be morons then its not Manu's fault :banana:



I think its Kobe :violin:



Learn to stay infront of Wade for a start

I tot the player on the offensive end always have the advantage no?

well the kobe bryant of today is not the same one of 2-3 years ago. i don't think people realize that he's lost a step and yes sometimes people tend to overrate him. but then again, you probably won't ever acknowledge that he was by far the best player 2-3 years ago so whatever.

[1~Gibson~1]

This thread is a joke :lol

[K.Koscik]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.


In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?


I don't think I've ever said that Manu is more talented or has better skills, but it is his big game ability, calmness under pressure, winners mentality (as in he does whatever it takes to win, flop, cheat, whatever) and and smart decision making makes me think he is a more effective player than Kobe.

I don't doubt Kobe's skills or talent, he is possible the most skilled and talented player in the league, but it is decision making and need to be "the man" and chokery on the big stage that would make me choose Manu over him.

Please, being the better basketball player means he's going to be better in most categories, meaning he's more skilled. He's more skilled to make the big shot, more skilled to do whatever he needs to do to win. That's what you said and now you're twisting your words because you got shot down by almost everyone that entered this god awful thread. Manu has never been "the man" and would fold if he was ever asked to be. Manu is an okay 2nd option at best. He's not even the 2nd option on his own team! What clutch play has Manu shown in the playoffs? Let me see it. Since that's what makes him a better player than Kobe. His playoff game winners, scoring explosions, and good all around play.. right? Not averaging 12 and 3 against the Lakers in the WCF on 35% shooting. Real clutch. :rolleyes:



EDIT: BTW thats TWO people I've seen ask you for a list of 10 BAD calls in the Mavericks / Heat 06 finals. Me and Plowking. You've given two. How about 8 more, then we can even BEGIN to go down that road.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Please, being the better basketball player means he's going to be better in most categories, meaning he's more skilled. He's more skilled to make the big shot, more skilled to do whatever he needs to do to win. That's what you said and now you're twisting your words because you got shot down by almost everyone that entered this god awful thread. Manu has never been "the man" and would fold if he was ever asked to be. Manu is an okay 2nd option at best. He's not even the 2nd option on his own team! What clutch play has Manu shown in the playoffs? Let me see it. Since that's what makes him a better player than Kobe. His playoff game winners, scoring explosions, and good all around play.. right? Not averaging 12 and 3 against the Lakers in the WCF on 35% shooting. Real clutch. :rolleyes:



EDIT: BTW thats TWO people I've seen ask you for a list of 10 BAD calls in the Mavericks / Heat 06 finals. Me and Plowking. You've given two. How about 8 more, then we can even BEGIN to go down that road.

None of the spurs showed up this year. Why are you only bringing up one year? Kobe Bryant in every single finals he's even played in, has been terrible. Manu hasn't. Manu had a last second buzzer beater against the Suns in game one that killed their confidence and basically ended the series. When's the last time Kobe has hit a buzzer beater in a playoff game?

Also I am not twisting my words at all. There have been more skilled bigmen in this league than Shaquille O'Neal in this league, but that doesn't mean they are better basketball players than Shaq. Baron Davis for example, has more talent and skill and is more athletic than John Stockton but that doesn't mean Baron Davis is a better basketball player than John Stockton. Understand?

[K.Koscik]

Kobe Bryants playoff stats (including first two years when he averaged less than 20minutes per game)

FG% 0.445 3P% 0.325 FT% 0.798 RPG: 5.0 APG: 4.6 SPG: 1.4 BPG: 0.7 PPG: 24.3


Manu's playoff stats (all years)

FG% 0.443 3P%: 0.380 FT% 0.820 RPG: 4.8 APG: 3.5 SPG: 1.4 BPG: 0.3 PPG: 16.0


(Bolded are what Kobe leads)


Manu's stats look a lot like a *gasp* ROLE PLAYER'S!!

Because that's what Manu is. A role player. Kobe is a franchise player. You say that Manu is better because he'll give up the ball to make his teammates better? He's averaging 1.1 assists less than Kobe. Even though he is the 3rd option on the Spurs, he averages a worse FG% (though dismal, still fact) Kobe has more blocks, and steals are identical. Manu shoots free throws and 3 pointers better, because that's what role players specialize in. Playing their role.

Manu cannot, is not, and will never be considered a better player than Kobe. Kobe had game winners against the Spurs in game 4 in 2002, and against the Suns in game 4 of 2006, just off the top of my head.

And in your original post you claimed that Manu was a better player than Kobe. That right there is twisting your words considering you're now saying you claimed he was "more skilled".

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Kobe Bryants playoff stats (including first two years when he averaged less than 20minutes per game)

FG% 0.445 3P% 0.325 FT% 0.798 RPG: 5.0 APG: 4.6 SPG: 1.4 BPG: 0.7 PPG: 24.3


Manu's playoff stats (all years)

FG% 0.443 3P%: 0.380 FT% 0.820 RPG: 4.8 APG: 3.5 SPG: 1.4 BPG: 0.3 PPG: 16.0


(Bolded are what Kobe leads)


Manu's stats look a lot like a *gasp* ROLE PLAYER'S!!

Because that's what Manu is. A role player. Kobe is a franchise player. You say that Manu is better because he'll give up the ball to make his teammates better? He's averaging 1.1 assists less than Kobe. Even though he is the 3rd option on the Spurs, he averages a worse FG% (though dismal, still fact) Kobe has more blocks, and steals are identical. Manu shoots free throws and 3 pointers better, because that's what role players specialize in. Playing their role.

Manu cannot, is not, and will never be considered a better player than Kobe. Kobe had game winners against the Spurs in game 4 in 2002, and against the Suns in game 4 of 2006, just off the top of my head.

And in your original post you claimed that Manu was a better player than Kobe. That right there is twisting your words considering you're now saying you claimed he was "more skilled".
Allen Iverson averages like 8 assists, but no one would make the mistake of calling him more of a team player than say Derek Fisher.

Also, I think that Manu is the better basketball player, but he isn't as skilled or athletic as Kobe. And none of the Spurs have worldbeater numbers, his numbers are a product of the system he plays in and his team, not lack of ability.

He has been the first option in europe and on Argentina, and he has proven he DOES step up to that stage, winning Euroleague MVP, World championships, and Olympic gold medals against the likes of team USA.

I have already shown Manu's clutch stats, and he has the highest shooting and second highest freethrow percentage in the league in the clutch, excluding Peja's incredible 100% freethrow average in crunch time. Kobe shoots only 4% higher than his usual average in the clutch while Ginobli shoots about 13 points higher.

[ihatetmac2524]

Allen Iverson averages like 8 assists, but no one would make the mistake of calling him more of a team player than say Derek Fisher.

hahaha good point. you know, a lot of times stats seem overrated. for instance, camby had great rebounding/blocking numbers last season, but anyone who's watched him play knows he's only a decent man to man defender and racked up those blocks/rebounds because of his teammates inability to stay in front of the ball.

[Diesel J]

Is this a joke thread?:roll: I like Manu but he's not a first tier SG/SF player like Kobe. Manu belongs on the same level as a Rip Hamilton type IMO. Unlike Kobe, Manu will never be the guy the opposition focuses on to slow down. For the Spurs, that guy is Duncan. Manu's role on the Spurs is basically the same one Kobe had while he played next to Shaq.

[AItheAnswer3]

Is this a joke thread?:roll: I like Manu but he's not a first tier SG/SF player like Kobe. Manu belongs on the same level as a Rip Hamilton type IMO.

Of course it is. Anyone with a brain would know Manu isnt on Kobe's level. Hell, I dont even consider him a top 5 SG right now. You can brag about him being efficient. Start the guy and his efficiency goes down.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Of course it is. Anyone with a brain would know Manu isnt on Kobe's level. Hell, I dont even consider him a top 5 SG right now. You can brag about him being efficient. Start the guy and his efficiency goes down.
He plays his best and most productive minutes against starters, in the 4th quarter. When he does start, he of course produces better numbers than he does coming off the bench. Do you really think that Ginobli isn't better than Michael Finley and that's why he is a 6th man? It is a part of Popovic's strategy, that when Duncan and Parker rest Manu can come in at the end of the first and the team won't be losing any of their offensive punch.

[K.Koscik]

Allen Iverson averages like 8 assists, but no one would make the mistake of calling him more of a team player than say Derek Fisher.

Also, I think that Manu is the better basketball player, but he isn't as skilled or athletic as Kobe. And none of the Spurs have worldbeater numbers, his numbers are a product of the system he plays in and his team, not lack of ability.

He has been the first option in europe and on Argentina, and he has proven he DOES step up to that stage, winning Euroleague MVP, World championships, and Olympic gold medals against the likes of team USA.

I have already shown Manu's clutch stats, and he has the highest shooting and second highest freethrow percentage in the league in the clutch, excluding Peja's incredible 100% freethrow average in crunch time. Kobe shoots only 4% higher than his usual average in the clutch while Ginobli shoots about 13 points higher.

Are you still living in 2006? Kobe isn't that same player. Kobe does give up the ball and get his teammates involved more. It's like you don't even watch any Lakers games, because Kobe plays much more like a team player than he used to. He realized being the #1 option brings upon new responsibilities, and he changed his game to suit those responsibilities. Manu is the 3rd option. Why can't you get that through your head? Manu is a product of Tim Duncan in the NBA. I'm not going to respond to your euroleague comments because I have never seen Manu play there.

However, how good is the Euroleague (not the Olympics or World Championships, mind you) when someone like Trajen Langdon can scrub his way out of the NBA and go to Europe and win a MVP award there? It's a different game, and the generally more thought of and higher skill leveled game is the NBA, and that's what we're talking about. Kobe does it better here, and would probably do it better over there too.

[AItheAnswer3]

He plays his best and most productive minutes against starters, in the 4th quarter. When he does start, he of course produces better numbers than he does coming off the bench. Do you really think that Ginobli isn't better than Michael Finley and that's why he is a 6th man? It is a part of Popovic's strategy.

I know that. I also know that Manu has the ability to lead the team. He has done that in the Olympics but not in the NBA except for a couple of games. But if he starts and gets as many minutes as Kobe, t-mac etc he wont be as efficient as he is right now. Manu is needed to give them a boost at the offensive end. Another fact you're ignoring is that Manu isnt even the 2nd best player on the team let alone the best. Kobe Bryant is the franchise player. Really, this comparison is absurd. And no Manu isnt the clutchest player in the league. carmelo, wade and a few others are more clutch than he is.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Are you still living in 2006? Kobe isn't that same player. Kobe does give up the ball and get his teammates involved more. It's like you don't even watch any Lakers games, because Kobe plays much more like a team player than he used to. He realized being the #1 option brings upon new responsibilities, and he changed his game to suit those responsibilities. Manu is the 3rd option. Why can't you get that through your head? Manu is a product of Tim Duncan in the NBA. I'm not going to respond to your euroleague comments because I have never seen Manu play there.

However, how good is the Euroleague (not the Olympics or World Championships, mind you) when someone like Trajen Langdon can scrub his way out of the NBA and go to Europe and win a MVP award there? It's a different game, and the generally more thought of and higher skill leveled game is the NBA, and that's what we're talking about. Kobe does it better here, and would probably do it better over there too.
Um, I watched every Laker game last year, I am a Lakers fan, just not a Kobe nut hugger, he beasted in the regular season and when he did play team oriented we looked like the best team in the league and I though at the end of the first round that Kobe had finally changed and become the amazing player he could be and fully deserved his MVP. However as the playoffs wore on, the egotistic shot jacking Kobe began to come out more and more, and in the Finals it came out full force, so it's not like the shot jacking selfish streak actually went away, he was just covering it up, and Kobe fell apart when it mattered most. It reminded me exactly what happened in game 7 vs the suns in 2006, and also against the Pistons in the finals when Kobe was gunning for finals MVP instead of passing to an effective Shaq.

People who watched a few Lakers games last year would have the impression that Kobe finally changed, but he didn't really, underneath it all he is still the same selfish shot jacker.

When it works I love him of course, but it never works in the finals, and for some reason that is his go-to move once he gets there, even though he has epically failed in all 5 finals he has played in.

Manu on the other hand actually steps up his game in the playoffs and crunch time, it doesn't matter what your stats are in the regular season if you can't put them up when it matters most in the playoffs and finals.

[AItheAnswer3]

Manu on the other hand actually steps up his game in the playoffs and crunch time, it doesn't matter what your stats are in the regular season if you can't put them up when it matters most in the playoffs and finals.

too bad there wouldnt be any finals for him if he didnt have Duncan or parker

[K.Koscik]

No good finals, did you even watch the 2002 NBA finals against the nets?

[1000yearsofPAIN]

too bad there wouldnt be any finals for him if he didnt have Duncan or parker
There wouldn't be finals for Kobe without Derek Fisher, Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, or Pau Gasol, what's your point?

Are you trying to say that basketball is a team game?

[1000yearsofPAIN]

No good finals, did you even watch the 2002 NBA finals against the nets?
Yes, I remember Shaq beasting through triple teams and putting up monster 38/20 games.

What did Kobe do that was so great?

[AItheAnswer3]

There wouldn't be finals for Kobe without Derek Fisher, Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, or Pau Gasol, what's your point?

Are you trying to say that basketball is a team game?

My point is Kobe's value to the Lakers>>>>>>>>>>Manu's value to the Spurs. There's a thing called being the 1st option on a team.

[JustinJDW]

Because you ****ing idiot Manu Ginobli can not carry a team into the Playoffs in the Wild Wild West without Duncan.Yet Manu won the 2004 Gold Olympics Medal with players that are nowhere near as good as USA Team Players. Kobe can't win without Shaq, and he sometimes takes poor shots. Kobe focuses to much on being "The greatest player ever", rather than doing what is best for the team. Their is a saying....

Players win games, teams win Championships.

That could not be more true. That is why the Celtics beat down the Lakers this year. Duncan did not make Manu. Manu is the only player in history to win a Olympics Gold Medal, NBA Championship and a European League Championship. So don't say Manu can't win without Duncan, meanwhile, Manu is winning Olympic Medals and European League Championships, and Kobe can't win a title without Shaq or good big man for his life.

[AItheAnswer3]

Yes, I remember Shaq beasting through triple teams and putting up monster 38/20 games.

What did Kobe do that was so great?

Kobe averaged 26.6 ppg and 5.8 apg. Yup, nothing special.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Yet Manu won the 2004 Gold Olympics Medal with players that are nowhere near as good as USA Team Players. Kobe can't win without Shaq, and he sometimes takes poor shots. Kobe focuses to much on being "The greatest player ever", rather than doing what is best for the team. Their is a saying....

Players win games, teams win Championships.

That could not be more true. That is why the Celtics beat down the Lakers this year. Duncan did not make Manu. Manu is the only player in history to win a Olympics Gold Medal, NBA Championship and a European League Championship. So don't say Manu can't win without Duncan, meanwhile, Manu is winning Olympic Medals and European League Championships, and Kobe can't win a title without Shaq or good big man for his life.
I disagree, I think that Kobe CAN win a finals without Shaq, he just chooses not to. If he doesn't win finals MVP, he doesn't want to championship, that's what it seems like to me atleast.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Kobe averaged 26.6 ppg and 5.8 apg. Yup, nothing special.
Um, that isn't that incredible though especially when you think Shaq was getting double and triple teamed everytime he touched the ball.

[AItheAnswer3]

Um, that isn't that incredible though especially when you think Shaq was getting double and triple teamed everytime he touched the ball.

Oh so now you're trying to say Shaq>kobe?
Thanks for stating the obvious. Everyone will be a 2nd option to a PRIME Shaq except for a Prime Jordan, KAJ, Bird.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Oh so now you're trying to say Shaq>kobe?
Thanks for stating the obvious. Everyone will be a 2nd option to a PRIME Shaq except for a Prime Jordan, KAJ, Bird.
No I'm trying to say Kobe's numbers aren't as impressive as they seem when you consider how much attention his teammate was getting.

[out|hoops|side]

Furthermore, here is an ESPN journalist, who like you was convinced that there was no foul. Though after recieving a video in super slow mo and from the other angle (right behind Wade and Nowitzki) he agrees that there was a massive shove on Wade.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-305/The-Salvatore-Side-of-the-Story---Crucified--in-the-2006-Finals.html


Here is a quote from the article:

"I watched it with Salvatore. Frankly, everyone in the room, looking at this video, thought it was a decent call. He added: "I want you to do one thing. Look at Dirk. Dirk knows that he fouled him. You don't see any reaction from Dirk at all. Dirk knew."

This post is great, especially the bold words. I hope it shuts 1000yearsofpain up about Dwyane Wade.

[Russian Rocket]

In Soviet Russia, Ginobli own Bryant!

[out|hoops|side]

He could also get another season ending injury and come back with no hops or quickness next year and never be the player he was. Don't talk about what ifs just talk about what there is. Manu=3 rings plus a crapload of game winners and dagger 3s.
Wade=1 ring and one referee aided finals.


Now I know you don't watch Wade play, you don't think Wade has a highlight reel full of game winners and daggers dating back to his rookie season?

In case you don't actually watch him play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgqCuLcpFQw

pay special attention to number 6 and 3, those are just 2 (which are gamewinners) out of the 10 best plays of his playoff career.

Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWIOexmEZmM

gamewinner against Utah

There are tons of these, so don't use crap like gamewinners to say who is better, Wade will match Manu, if not beat him, shot-for-shot.

Again, you said best in the last 5 years, Wade has won one ring to Manu's two in the last 5 years. And Wade was clearly the best player on his team, every single time he lead Miami to the playoffs. Manu was not the best player on his team, and it wasn't very close.
Sure the refs might have helped him, but again you clearly don't watch Wade play, as he played unbelievably amazing in that Finals, every game, against the Mavs.

You seem to be trying to respond to everyone who is proving you wrong, so how come you didn't respond to this, 1000yearsofPAIN?

You say Manu has all these daggers and gamewinners and rings, then I show all this in the quote, where is your rebuttal?

You are probably just too busy dealing with the rest of ISH, everyone on here, who thinks you are stupid and is also proving you extremely wrong. I understand you're a busy man.

You are going to suffer a 1000 years of PAIN in hell for all your ridiculous comments, and I don't even believe in hell.

[plowking]

This post is great, especially the bold words. I hope it shuts 1000yearsofpain up about Dwyane Wade.

I was hoping that all Dallas fans and everyone who though that finals was rigged reads it. Seems as though the video was removed, though the text is more then convincing.

4 phantom calls on youtube and you expect me to believe the finals was rigged. Especially due to only four calls being found over 6 games. 6! That isn't even one bad call a game.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

I was hoping that all Dallas fans and everyone who though that finals was rigged reads it. Seems as though the video was removed, though the text is more then convincing.

4 phantom calls on youtube and you expect me to believe the finals was rigged. Especially due to only four calls being found over 6 games. 6! That isn't even one bad call a game.
many videos on youtube of NBA rigged games, such as clips of the Rockets/Mavs series where Yao was getting bullshat on were mysteriously removed from youtube. I'm not surprised comps of Wade's phantom calls were removed too, because I've seen atleast 3.

Also Dwayne Wade, while a great shooting guard, in the past 5 years has only played about 4 seasons due to injury and incase you forgot, last year he was complete garbage.

[ihatetmac2524]

say what you want about kobe bryant, but he led his team the finals last year and took the celtics to 6 games. they didn't win, but a lot of other stars haven't won either and don't get the crap kobe does.

as for manu ginobli, i think he's proven he could be the number one option but until that happens and he produces better than kobe bryant, you can't put him above it. i for one think kobe would have no championships but better stats if he had stayed with charlotte... however, it didn't happen, so no point speculating.

[juju151111]

This post is great, especially the bold words. I hope it shuts 1000yearsofpain up about Dwyane Wade.
wait now he trying to compare him to dwade.Why the hell are u guys arging with this dumbass?

[juju151111]

I was hoping that all Dallas fans and everyone who though that finals was rigged reads it. Seems as though the video was removed, though the text is more then convincing.

4 phantom calls on youtube and you expect me to believe the finals was rigged. Especially due to only four calls being found over 6 games. 6! That isn't even one bad call a game.
I don't understand why ur arguing with this guy.He thinks Manu is better then dwade.LMAO Lets put dwade on the spurs in 03 and see if they wouldn't of won more then 3 chips this era.Duncan+parker+dwade/or kobe LOl duncan might have 6 rings instead of 4 right now.

[out|hoops|side]

many videos on youtube of NBA rigged games, such as clips of the Rockets/Mavs series where Yao was getting bullshat on were mysteriously removed from youtube. I'm not surprised comps of Wade's phantom calls were removed too, because I've seen atleast 3.

Also Dwayne Wade, while a great shooting guard, in the past 5 years has only played about 4 seasons due to injury and incase you forgot, last year he was complete garbage.

You are a knob, what you are saying is that he has played 4 out of the last 5 seasons. Ha, you're an idiot, so he has lost one season to injury? Woopee doo, that last season where he was garbage was because of the injury. You are not smart at all, I can see why all of your threads have bombed.

[plowking]

many videos on youtube of NBA rigged games, such as clips of the Rockets/Mavs series where Yao was getting bullshat on were mysteriously removed from youtube. I'm not surprised comps of Wade's phantom calls were removed too, because I've seen atleast 3.

Also Dwayne Wade, while a great shooting guard, in the past 5 years has only played about 4 seasons due to injury and incase you forgot, last year he was complete garbage.

That last season where Wade was complete garbage, his stats were still good enough to be better then Manu.

[NugzFan]

dear god...another ish thread. manu better than kobe? lol.

[plowking]

many videos on youtube of NBA rigged games, such as clips of the Rockets/Mavs series where Yao was getting bullshat on were mysteriously removed from youtube. I'm not surprised comps of Wade's phantom calls were removed too, because I've seen atleast 3.

Also Dwayne Wade, while a great shooting guard, in the past 5 years has only played about 4 seasons due to injury and incase you forgot, last year he was complete garbage.

None of them were removed.

All the Dwyane Wade phantom calls from the series are there. Type in Dwyane Wade phantom in the youtube search and it will come up.

4 calls in a whole finals series? Would you say its rigged, or more likely that it is brilliant reffing due to the fact a desperate Mavs fan could only find 4 calls that were iffy the whole 6 game series.

[eliteballer]

Even Gregg Popovich said Kobe's the best player in the league:roll:

[LakerKid1998]

Kobe is the man in the nba... anyone not stupid can tell

Ginobli isn't even a starter!!! his stats are against 2nd units

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Wow Insidehoops at it's finest.....:roll:

[plowking]

Kobe is the man in the nba... anyone not stupid can tell

Ginobli isn't even a starter!!! his stats are against 2nd units

That's a bad argument. Though yes, Ginobli is no where near as good as Bryant or Wade.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

You guys obviously don't understand my argument. Yes Kobe puts up better stats, but as Tayshaun Prince will tell you, stats aren't everything. My reasoning for taking Ginobli are his winners mentality, calmness underpressure and lack of a giant ego that comes into play in the worst possible moments and loses his team crucial games. Kobe puts up better stats. He has more skill, as he is probably the hardest working player in the league. But he still makes boneheaded decisions and he still guns for Finals MVPs when he should be thinking team first.

[gpfanz]

You guys obviously don't understand my argument. Yes Kobe puts up better stats, but as Tayshaun Prince will tell you, stats aren't everything. My reasoning for taking Ginobli are his winners mentality, calmness underpressure and lack of a giant ego that comes into play in the worst possible moments and loses his team crucial games. Kobe puts up better stats. He has more skill, as he is probably the hardest working player in the league. But he still makes boneheaded decisions and he still guns for Finals MVPs when he should be thinking team first.

Agreed :applause:

[K.Koscik]

No I'm trying to say Kobe's numbers aren't as impressive as they seem when you consider how much attention his teammate was getting.

So why can't Manu do it when Duncan is getting double and triple teamed?

[out|hoops|side]

You guys obviously don't understand my argument. Yes Kobe puts up better stats, but as Tayshaun Prince will tell you, stats aren't everything. My reasoning for taking Ginobli are his winners mentality, calmness underpressure and lack of a giant ego that comes into play in the worst possible moments and loses his team crucial games. Kobe puts up better stats. He has more skill, as he is probably the hardest working player in the league. But he still makes boneheaded decisions and he still guns for Finals MVPs when he should be thinking team first.

How? How? How? How? How are you this stupid?
Kobe Bryant has the winner's mentality and certainly plays fantastic under pressure, sure he has a huge ego, but he gets Ws. If you put Ginobili in Kobe's place, the Lakers, as a team, would not get as many wins. The Lakers, as a team, get a lot of wins because of Kobe, they get a lot more wins then if they had Manu instead of Kobe.

[Mamba]

lipstick?

http://www.virginiahockey.net/imglib/hockeymomandgear.jpg

http://www.millionface.com/l/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/sarah-palin.jpg

[1000yearsofPAIN]

How? How? How? How? How are you this stupid?
Kobe Bryant has the winner's mentality and certainly plays fantastic under pressure, sure he has a huge ego, but he gets Ws. If you put Ginobili in Kobe's place, the Lakers, as a team, would not get as many wins. The Lakers, as a team, get a lot of wins because of Kobe, they get a lot more wins then if they had Manu instead of Kobe.
It doesn't matter what your numbers are in the regular season or how many wins your get if you can't put up those numbers when it matters most and win when it matters. Incase you don't get it, I'm talking about CHOKING in the finals, multiple times and putting up worse numbers in the finals than you do in the regular season like Kobe does.

[Glo41]

Last 2 years in the playoffs:

Manu:
06-07: 16.7ppg,5.5rpg, 3.7apg, 40.1%
07-08: 17.8ppg, 3.8rpg, 3.9apg, 42.2%

Kobe
06-07: 32.8ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.4apg, 46.2%
07-08: 30.1ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.6apg, 47.9%

As for the finals, his 25.7ppg, 4.7rpg, 5.0apg, 40.5% is still miles better than most of Manu's postseasons.

And the erratic play of Kobe too? Hmm Manu has played one 30mpg season, and that was last year. You want to know why? You guessed it: erratic play and bonehead decisions.

[Sharas]

i just wonder who might this 1000years guy be.

[dynasty1978]

Who is the bigger idiot? The OP or the poster in this thread supporting him?

[K.Koscik]

Who is the bigger idiot? The OP or the poster in this thread supporting him?

My guess is they are equally idiotic, and the same poster at that.

However name calling solves nothing. He hasn't convinced anyone, and almost everyone just realized the level of his basketball intelligence.

Fact is fact, and the fact is Kobe is better, and 100% of smart basketball fans know this.
Manu is good at what he does, and what he does is be a role player. Any team would want Manu, but no team would take him over Kobe.

[BankShot]

Manu is good at what he does, and what he does is be a role player. Any team would want Manu, but no team would take him over Kobe.

I really liked this statement. Rep +1

[AItheAnswer3]

Who is the bigger idiot? The OP or the poster in this thread supporting him?

I'd say they're equally idiotic.

[out|hoops|side]

It doesn't matter what your numbers are in the regular season or how many wins your get if you can't put up those numbers when it matters most and win when it matters. Incase you don't get it, I'm talking about CHOKING in the finals, multiple times and putting up worse numbers in the finals than you do in the regular season like Kobe does.

WOW, how don't you get that Manu has been with better players for those championships. Duncan? Parker? Bowen? Seriously, you don't get it do you?
Kobe puts up better numbers in the playoffs, the only reason he doesn't win is because he hasn't had the same quality players on his team as Manu has been lucky enough to have.
This year, who was in the Finals? That's right it was the Lakers not the Spurs, not Ginobili but Kobe.
Sure they didn't end up winning it, but they were there and Manu was not. Now Kobe has a better supporting cast and I'm sure with Bynum back there are a few rings in Kobe's future.
Not too mention, when you talk about Manu you can't say he has a better supporting cast than Kobe, because they aren't Manu's supporting cast, it isn't Manu's team it is Duncan's. Whereas the Lakers are Kobe's team, because he is a franchise player and he is far superior to Manu.

[Russian Rocket]

In Soviet Russia, idiot OP get shot with gun!

[Jimmy2k8]

In Soviet Russia, idiot OP get shot with gun!


yes, soviet russia jokes are way old. and its soviet union btw.

[BankShot]

yes, soviet russia jokes are way old. and its soviet union btw.

ha ha so true, what an idiot

[niko]

In my opinion these have been the top 2 shooting guards in the league for the past 5 years.

Most people say Kobe is the better player, and well, stats would say that is true.

However I feel that Ginobli is the better basketball player than Kobe. The only thing that seperates the two is Ginobli is way less selfish than Kobe, and Kobe shoots alot more, and gets better treatment from the refs. Though Kobe has a big reputation for being the best closer in the game, I'd rather have Ginobli in those situations, his playoff stats are amazing, and Kobe has proven to be garbage in the finals. Also Kobe can't deal with guys like James Posey or Bruce Bowen, while I can't say that I've ever really seen a guy shut down Ginobli.

In my opinion Kobe puts up better stats, but Ginobli is the better winner.

So what exactly is it that makes everyone think that Kobe Bryant is so much better than Manu Ginobli?

The fact Kobe can play at that high a level ALL the time while Ginobili can about half the time. That's pretty much the crux. I think 100% Kobe is better anyway, but I think you get that almost twice as much as Ginobili at his best.

And someone saying they've never seen Ginobili shut down is ridiculous, i can think of series that he only scored like 10 points a game much less just games.

[juju151111]

Last 2 years in the playoffs:

Manu:
06-07: 16.7ppg,5.5rpg, 3.7apg, 40.1%
07-08: 17.8ppg, 3.8rpg, 3.9apg, 42.2%

Kobe
06-07: 32.8ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.4apg, 46.2%
07-08: 30.1ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.6apg, 47.9%

As for the finals, his 25.7ppg, 4.7rpg, 5.0apg, 40.5% is still miles better than most of Manu's postseasons.

And the erratic play of Kobe too? Hmm Manu has played one 30mpg season, and that was last year. You want to know why? You guessed it: erratic play and bonehead decisions.
LOl put Kobe on the spurs and u would see the samething.

[ihatetmac2524]

LOl put Kobe on the spurs and u would see the samething.

nah you wouldn't, why don't you stop saying these ridiculous statements when you know it's not true. you don't like kobe, leave it that.

[Jordandunk23]

Manu has gotten so OVERRATED NOW. i mean the guy is talented and has an unorthodox style of scoring but you idiots have overrated the hell out of this guy. Top 10 shooting guard but not #2... where r u guys concluding that Ginobili is #2 shooting guard from?? Do u guys even watch other shooting guards in the league??

[1000yearsofPAIN]

LOl put Kobe on the spurs and u would see the samething.
Yes, Manu's numbers aren't incredibly high, but OMG WOW NONE OF THE SPURS HAVE GREAT NUMBERS, even the immortal Tim Duncan and the apparently "better than Ginobli" Tony Parker.

That is just the Spur's system. Also the Spurs always take it easy in the regular season.

My main arguments to those who have poor reading comprehension:

Yes, Kobe puts up monster numbers IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS, but when the finals come around, when it matters most, Kobe starts gunning for Finals MVP regardless of team success. Always underpressure he takes it upon himself, and only himself, to be the one to take every shot.

Ginobli is much calmer underpressure and never would start shot jacking for personal glory. His clutch stats are also much better than Kobe, he shoots 57% in the clutch, compared to Kobe's 48% plus manu is twice as likely to pass as Kobe is in clutch situations. Manu doesn't care how you win aslong as you get the win, while Kobe wants to win, but only if HE is the man doing the winning. For example, Kobe would never be happy winning a finals where Lamar Odom or Pau Gasol won finals MVP instead of him, as seen in last finals against the Celtics, and on his jack spree against Detroit, he would rather shot jack and lose, then pass to his teammates and have the possibility of them playing better than him.

In the regular season Kobe is a beast but then again, so are Dirk and Carmelo Anthony. It is the finals where it matters most, and Kobe just falls apart when it gets there.

[J000]

Manu could be or is better than Kobe given the minutes and confidence to take big shots.

[out|hoops|side]

Yes, Manu's numbers aren't incredibly high, but OMG WOW NONE OF THE SPURS HAVE GREAT NUMBERS, even the immortal Tim Duncan and the apparently "better than Ginobli" Tony Parker.

That is just the Spur's system. Also the Spurs always take it easy in the regular season.

My main arguments to those who have poor reading comprehension:

Yes, Kobe puts up monster numbers IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS, but when the finals come around, when it matters most, Kobe starts gunning for Finals MVP regardless of team success. Always underpressure he takes it upon himself, and only himself, to be the one to take every shot.

Ginobli is much calmer underpressure and never would start shot jacking for personal glory. His clutch stats are also much better than Kobe, he shoots 57% in the clutch, compared to Kobe's 48% plus manu is twice as likely to pass as Kobe is in clutch situations. Manu doesn't care how you win aslong as you get the win, while Kobe wants to win, but only if HE is the man doing the winning. For example, Kobe would never be happy winning a finals where Lamar Odom or Pau Gasol won finals MVP instead of him, as seen in last finals against the Celtics, and on his jack spree against Detroit, he would rather shot jack and lose, then pass to his teammates and have the possibility of them playing better than him.

In the regular season Kobe is a beast but then again, so are Dirk and Carmelo Anthony. It is the finals where it matters most, and Kobe just falls apart when it gets there.

Incorrect, Melo and Dirk are not on Kobe's beasting level.

Also, have you talked to Kobe? Can you read his mind like Matt Parkman? He only wants Finals MVPs and not rings?
Of course Kobe is the man who wants to do the winning, he's the best player in the League and the franchise player on the Lakers, he should be the man doing the winning for them.

These stats of in the clutch Manu shoots 57 to Kobe's 49, can you please show them to me?
If they are true, which I'm not doubting, so what? Kobe has to have the ball in his hands in the clutch because that is how the Lakers win, and Kobe has proven time and again that it is the best option for his team. He has had to take way more shots in the clutch than Manu has because he takes them all for his team, where Manu has Parker and Duncan and Bowen very rarely and had Robert Horry. The fact that he takes more attributes to the lower, but still very good in the clutch, percentage.

Someone already pointed out that you are using this clutch percentage as the reason Manu is better, well Horry shoots 89% in the clutch so he is clearly >>>>>>>> Manu's 57%.
Your argument is absurd.

In the conference finals this year, against the Lakers: Manu shoots 35.8% overall, 36% from 3, gets 3 rebounds and 3 assists in 32 minutes plus 12.6 points. Kobe gets: 53.3% shooting, 33.3% from 3, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 29 points in 40 minutes. Who performed better here according to stats, which is what your argument relies so heavily upon?

[LakerKid1998]

Manu could be or is better than Kobe given the minutes and confidence to take big shots.


Umm no you are wrong... you just got served by a middle school student:banana:

[1000yearsofPAIN]

Incorrect, Melo and Dirk are not on Kobe's beasting level.

Also, have you talked to Kobe? Can you read his mind like Matt Parkman? He only wants Finals MVPs and not rings?
Of course Kobe is the man who wants to do the winning, he's the best player in the League and the franchise player on the Lakers, he should be the man doing the winning for them.

These stats of in the clutch Manu shoots 57 to Kobe's 49, can you please show them to me?
If they are true, which I'm not doubting, so what? Kobe has to have the ball in his hands in the clutch because that is how the Lakers win, and Kobe has proven time and again that it is the best option for his team. He has had to take way more shots in the clutch than Manu has because he takes them all for his team, where Manu has Parker and Duncan and Bowen very rarely and had Robert Horry. The fact that he takes more attributes to the lower, but still very good in the clutch, percentage.

Someone already pointed out that you are using this clutch percentage as the reason Manu is better, well Horry shoots 89% in the clutch so he is clearly >>>>>>>> Manu's 57%.
Your argument is absurd.

In the conference finals this year, against the Lakers: Manu shoots 35.8% overall, 36% from 3, gets 3 rebounds and 3 assists in 32 minutes plus 12.6 points. Kobe gets: 53.3% shooting, 33.3% from 3, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 29 points in 40 minutes. Who performed better here according to stats, which is what your argument relies so heavily upon?
Why does Kobe HAVE to have the ball in his hands at all times in the clutch? Why does the game plan have to switch at the end of every Lakers game to 1v5 Iso plays for Kobe, when the triangle offense and smooth ball movement was working perfectly fine for the whole game until now?

The answer is because Kobe told Phil Jackson to give him the ball in the last 5 minutes AND LET HIM iso, and Phil Jackson said OK. I am not making this up, Phil Jackson has said it in interviews in the LA times and the Lakers commentators have said it. The difference between Manu and Kobe is Manu sticks to the team game plan in the last 5 minutes while Kobe creates his own game plan which doesn't involve his team, except to set screens for him.

HERE'S THE STATS THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED MULTIPLE TIMES IN THIS THREAD
http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Against the Celtics when it was getting rough, instead of sticking to the triangle offense, Kobe tried to become super Kobe and started jacking up 15 foot pull up jumpers with James Poseys hand in his face. Needless to say, he wasn't successful.

And my argument doesn't rely heavily on stats, I am saying Kobe plays stupid under pressure while Ginobli is calm as hell and steps up his game. There is no stat for that. Also my main argument is Kobe's selfishness and selfish shot jacking compared to Ginobli's unselfishness. No stats for that either.

The only ones bringing up stats are the ones trying to play up Kobe-"Oh look at this, Kobe averages 30 ppg in regular season compared to Manu's 18 ppg, OMG Kobe Owns him"

And incase you didn't realize it, none of the Spurs showed up in that playoff series. Do you judge Tim Duncan just by that one series? No, so why is it only that one playoff series you are bringing up?

[out|hoops|side]

Why does Kobe HAVE to have the ball in his hands at all times in the clutch? Why does the game plan have to switch at the end of every Lakers game to 1v5 Iso plays for Kobe, when the triangle offense and smooth ball movement was working perfectly fine for the whole game until now?

The answer is because Kobe told Phil Jackson to give him the ball in the last 5 minutes AND LET HIM iso, and Phil Jackson said OK. I am not making this up, Phil Jackson has said it in interviews in the LA times and the Lakers commentators have said it. The difference between Manu and Kobe is Manu sticks to the team game plan in the last 5 minutes while Kobe creates his own game plan which doesn't involve his team, except to set screens for him.

HERE'S THE STATS THAT I HAVE ALREADY POSTED MULTIPLE TIMES IN THIS THREAD
http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Against the Celtics when it was getting rough, instead of sticking to the triangle offense, Kobe tried to become super Kobe and started jacking up 15 foot pull up jumpers with James Poseys hand in his face. Needless to say, he wasn't successful.

Kobe has to have the ball because it works. He is that type of player with that type of ego, and it works. A lot of teams have a player who gets the ball in the clutch, when it's the end of the game they say "we know Kobe's getting the ball now" or "the Heat are looking for Wade here", etc.

You showing us Manu has a better shooting percentage in the clutch and that Kobe demands the ball when the game is on the line every time does not prove that Manu is a better player, far from it. At the other end of the spectrum it shows us Kobe has the audacity and flair to get that ball and make it happen for his team in the clutch, it shows us he has the skill (greater than Manu's) to perform in the clutch.

[out|hoops|side]

And my argument doesn't rely heavily on stats, I am saying Kobe plays stupid under pressure while Ginobli is calm as hell and steps up his game. There is no stat for that. Also my main argument is Kobe's selfishness and selfish shot jacking compared to Ginobli's unselfishness. No stats for that either.

The only ones bringing up stats are the ones trying to play up Kobe-"Oh look at this, Kobe averages 30 ppg in regular season compared to Manu's 18 ppg, OMG Kobe Owns him"

And incase you didn't realize it, none of the Spurs showed up in that playoff series. Do you judge Tim Duncan just by that one series? No, so why is it only that one playoff series you are bringing up?

You added this bit so I have to address it now.
How does it not rely heavily on stats? You keep parading that stat of 57% to 49% around and saying that Kobe is selfish and jacks shots and shoots too much in the clutch, you are using that stat to prove to us your point. But you are failing miserably as no one agrees with you, at least no one in their right mind.
None of the Spurs showed up in that playoff series? So it is safe to assume that based on one thing (as you have been doing using the fact that Kobe is selfish) that Manu is a quitter and didn't come to play that series.
I'm using that series as an example because it was the latest one in which Kobe and Manu went H2H.

How about the entire playoffs this year?
Manu 42.2% FG, 37.3% 3s, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 17.8 points in 33 minutes.
Kobe 47.9% FG, 32.5% 3s, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 30 points in 41 minutes.
More stats for you.
Do you forget that year, a season ago, when Kobe carried the Lakers to the playoffs by himself, Manu could not do that for a team.

Kobe is better than Manu, your opinion is wrong, about 2 people on ISH agree with you for whatever crazy reason.
You lose.

:violin:

[RoseCity07]

I don't really have anything to say here but this guys name tricks my brain into thinking it's "1,000 years of Palin" which already gives off a bad vibe.

[1000yearsofPAIN]

You added this bit so I have to address it now.
How does it not rely heavily on stats? You keep parading that stat of 57% to 49% around and saying that Kobe is selfish and jacks shots and shoots too much in the clutch, you are using that stat to prove to us your point. But you are failing miserably as no one agrees with you, at least no one in their right mind.
None of the Spurs showed up in that playoff series? So it is safe to assume that based on one thing (as you have been doing using the fact that Kobe is selfish) that Manu is a quitter and didn't come to play that series.
I'm using that series as an example because it was the latest one in which Kobe and Manu went H2H.

How about the entire playoffs this year?
Manu 42.2% FG, 37.3% 3s, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 17.8 points in 33 minutes.
Kobe 47.9% FG, 32.5% 3s, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 30 points in 41 minutes.
More stats for you.
Do you forget that year, a season ago, when Kobe carried the Lakers to the playoffs by himself, Manu could not do that for a team.

Kobe is better than Manu, your opinion is wrong, about 2 people on ISH agree with you for whatever crazy reason.
You lose.

:violin:
It's not a competition..am I missing something?

Manu has never had a team to carry, except for his Euroleague team, and Argentina, and he won the highest trophy he could with both of these teams. Before he got hurt in Beijing, he was the leading scorer in that tournamnet too. That implies that he can lead a team, and do it very well. Also Manu hit a gamewinner in the recent playoffs that completely demoralized the Suns. Kobe jacked up 15 footers in James Posey's face that clanked off the rim.

Kobe puts up better numbers, but I still would rather have Manu. He is a winner, the type of winner who doesn't care how you win, as long as you win, while Kobe is the type that wants to win, but also wants to win as the consensus undisputed number 1 player on the court. That attitude is good sometimes, but more often then not, the bigger the stage, the more it lets him down. Once again I will bring up not just his finals against the Celtics but also his finals against Detroit, where he had Karl Malone, Shaq and Payton on his team, and was being guarded by the anti-Kobe Tayshaun Prince and decided it would be a good idea to try to gun for his first finals MVP. There is no "stats" to prove this statement, but I think Kobe's senseless jacking is the reason the Lakers lost those finals, as Shaq was doing very well for himself every time he got the ball.

[ihatetmac2524]

It's not a competition..am I missing something?

Manu has never had a team to carry, except for his Euroleague team, and Argentina, and he won the highest trophy he could with both of these teams. Before he got hurt in Beijing, he was the leading scorer in that tournamnet too. That implies that he can lead a team, and do it very well. Also Manu hit a gamewinner in the recent playoffs that completely demoralized the Suns. Kobe jacked up 15 footers in James Posey's face that clanked off the rim.

Kobe puts up better numbers, but I still would rather have Manu. He is a winner, the type of winner who doesn't care how you win, as long as you win, while Kobe is the type that wants to win, but also wants to win as the consensus undisputed number 1 player on the court. That attitude is good sometimes, but more often then not, the bigger the stage, the more it lets him down. Once again I will bring up not just his finals against the Celtics but also his finals against Detroit, where he had Karl Malone, Shaq and Payton on his team, and was being guarded by the anti-Kobe Tayshaun Prince and decided it would be a good idea to try to gun for his first finals MVP. There is no "stats" to prove this statement, but I think Kobe's senseless jacking is the reason the Lakers lost those finals, as Shaq was doing very well for himself every time he got the ball.

i'm a kobe fan and i have to agree that kobe wants to be the number one player on the court and during last year's playoffs sometimes played out of the team concept. but he also made his teammates better and hopefully he takes another step in the right direction this season.

and kobe's "senseless jacking" isn't the only reason the lakers lost the finals. karl malone was injured, gary payton/shaq couldn't guard **** on the pick and roll, and the pistons were just hungrier. as for last year's finals, i think the celtics should've been favored to win but everyone was just drinking the lakers kool-aid.

[out|hoops|side]

It's not a competition..am I missing something?

Manu has never had a team to carry, except for his Euroleague team, and Argentina, and he won the highest trophy he could with both of these teams. Before he got hurt in Beijing, he was the leading scorer in that tournamnet too. That implies that he can lead a team, and do it very well. Also Manu hit a gamewinner in the recent playoffs that completely demoralized the Suns. Kobe jacked up 15 footers in James Posey's face that clanked off the rim.

Kobe puts up better numbers, but I still would rather have Manu. He is a winner, the type of winner who doesn't care how you win, as long as you win, while Kobe is the type that wants to win, but also wants to win as the consensus undisputed number 1 player on the court. That attitude is good sometimes, but more often then not, the bigger the stage, the more it lets him down. Once again I will bring up not just his finals against the Celtics but also his finals against Detroit, where he had Karl Malone, Shaq and Payton on his team, and was being guarded by the anti-Kobe Tayshaun Prince and decided it would be a good idea to try to gun for his first finals MVP. There is no "stats" to prove this statement, but I think Kobe's senseless jacking is the reason the Lakers lost those finals, as Shaq was doing very well for himself every time he got the ball.

No, not a competition, you just lose at life in general.
In case you didn't know the international stage and EuroLeague are a lot different than the NBA.
Kobe is better I have argued enough on this subject I'm not responding to you in this thread anymore. G'day madam.

[HisJoeness]

kobe's "senseless jacking"

:lol

[Jinxed]

Manu is clearly better than Kobe.

I made a long thread on this but it got deleted...

anyway...


Manu is rated better than Kobe in every major statiscal analysis.

According to the most comprehensive stat analysis..the composite score ranking. Their overall league rankings are

4) Manu Ginobli
8)Kobe Bryant

In this ranking system Manu Ginobli was rated as the best player in the league in 2005 and 2006.

In the very respected Roland Rating systems overall league rankings

3) Ginobli
6) Bryant

http://www.82games.com/ROLRTG8.HTM

Ginobli was also rated higher than Kobe in 2006-2007 as well.

and of course in Hollinger's famous PER

Ginobli was ranked as the top SG in the league and Kobe was number 2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=2850240


Now well you may say...well hey the stats are flawed! We of course they aren't perfect. But what they are is 100 times better than the computer you use to calculate how good a player is in your head. Your judgment of a player is based on the limited amount of times you see him play, biases and prejudices amongst many other factors. We tend to notice the highlight plays more than the other important game changers such as off the ball defense, screening, running the set offence. We rarely take these into account, instead focus on the highlight dunks. We erroneously think Kobe Bryant is a clutch player when he only has only hit 25% of his game winning shots in his career. We don't remember the misses, only the ones he makes.

We also don't realize that in "Clutch time" (last five minutes of a game or overtime when the game is within 5 points) that Kobe Bryant only makes 44% of his shots. Ginobli shoots an AMAZING 57% from the field in clutch time. Dishes out way more assists and plays far better defense.


The human mind is a horrible computer for judging a players worth. Stats are way better. They take into account every single posession, all the ones you don't see.

[out|hoops|side]

Stats are GOAT.

[brandonislegend]

Manu is clearly better than Kobe.

I made a long thread on this but it got deleted...

anyway...


Manu is rated better than Kobe in every major statiscal analysis.

According to the most comprehensive stat analysis..the composite score ranking. Their overall league rankings are

4) Manu Ginobli
8)Kobe Bryant

In this ranking system Manu Ginobli was rated as the best player in the league in 2005 and 2006.

In the very respected Roland Rating systems overall league rankings

3) Ginobli
6) Bryant

http://www.82games.com/ROLRTG8.HTM

Ginobli was also rated higher than Kobe in 2006-2007 as well.

and of course in Hollinger's famous PER

Ginobli was ranked as the top SG in the league and Kobe was number 2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=2850240


Now well you may say...well hey the stats are flawed! We of course they aren't perfect. But what they are is 100 times better than the computer you use to calculate how good a player is in your head. Your judgment of a player is based on the limited amount of times you see him play, biases and prejudices amongst many other factors. We tend to notice the highlight plays more than the other important game changers such as off the ball defense, screening, running the set offence. We rarely take these into account, instead focus on the highlight dunks. We erroneously think Kobe Bryant is a clutch player when he only has only hit 25% of his game winning shots in his career. We don't remember the misses, only the ones he makes.

We also don't realize that in "Clutch time" (last five minutes of a game or overtime when the game is within 5 points) that Kobe Bryant only makes 44% of his shots. Ginobli shoots an AMAZING 57% from the field in clutch time. Dishes out way more assists and plays far better defense.


The human mind is a horrible computer for judging a players worth. Stats are way better. They take into account every single posession, all the ones you don't see.

???

[Jinxed]

P.S in "Super Clutch" stats...I.E the last two minutes of a game...

Manu shoots 62% from the field. WHAT!!!! 62% for a guard...are you kidding me!

Kobe shoots 46%.

[v-unit]

LOL-Everything you have to prove Manu is better is either intangible or some whack formula like "the composite score ranking" and the "Roland Rating system" . Fact is, Kobe has better stats, better physical body, a better mental and a better focus on the game. This is why he is so successful, and although manu is as well, he is no where near Kobe.

Everything that we give you is legit stats, facts, etc, so don't come in here with things like "He acts better in cruch time" "He keeps thinking this" -Those are all intangibles, things that you can't touch or really see or prove or anything.

[Jinxed]

Ginobli averages 3.0 steals per 48 minutes of clutch time.

Kobe averages 0.4

As for overall defense...

according to the comprehensive statistical analysis Manu Ginobli was the 5th best defender in the league last year.

Kobe was 30th.

Although admittingly..this is probably skewed by the fact hat Manu played for the Spurs and team defense plays a big role in the statistics.

Your bias against Manu being a better defender is probably because he's white and non-american. Just another example of the human mind not being a good judge.

[Jinxed]

LOL-Everything you have to prove Manu is better is either intangible or some whack formula like "the composite score ranking" and the "Roland Rating system" . Fact is, Kobe has better stats, better physical body, a better mental and a better focus on the game. This is why he is so successful, and although manu is as well, he is no where near Kobe.

Everything that we give you is legit stats, facts, etc, so don't come in here with things like "He acts better in cruch time" "He keeps thinking this" -Those are all intangibles, things that you can't touch or really see or prove or anything.

No..he DOES NOT have better stats. And I just proved that. When you think of stats...all you are thinking about is Points per game...but this is a bull**** statistic. PER, Comprehensive and Roland rating take WAY more into account and a far better judges of a players overall rating.

And Kobe certainly doesn't have a better mental focus on the game. Manu is way smarter...hence why he is so much more efficient than Kobe. Better physical body I'll give you.

[Jimmy2k8]

....lol ok. :oldlol:


If Manu is better than Kobe, then there must be hundreds of players in this league that area 10x better than Kobe. :oldlol:

The IQ of this forum gets lower each month.

[Jinxed]

As for the defensive rating....

Let's look at Counterpart Rating. This is the PER of the player you are guarding...

Ginobli is ranked as the 4th best on the ball defender in the league...Kobe is a respectable 9th.

But when it comes to defensive adjusted +/-...basically a statistic that guages how well you play your man + team defense...it's not even close. Manu is a way better defender than Kobe. In fact Kobe becomes just a barely above average defender.

http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2007-2008&mode=summary&sortnumber=21&sortorder=DESC

I think these statistics are pretty accurate considering it lists...Josh Smith, Chuck Hayes and Najera as the best defenders

and has Rudy Gay and Kevin Durant as the worst defenders in the league.

[jjayfive]

let's ask nba gms how they feel...

[Jinxed]

....lol ok. :oldlol:


If Manu is better than Kobe, then there must be hundreds of players in this league that area 10x better than Kobe. :oldlol:

The IQ of this forum gets lower each month.


No...about 6 or 7..

Top Players..according to Comprehensive rating system system..
1.Kevin Garnett
2.Chauncey Billups (deadly efficient, great defender)
3.Paul Pierce
4.Manu Ginobli
5.Lebron James
6.Chris Paul
7.Dirk Nowitzki
8.Kobe Bryant



Roland ratings
1. Lebron James
2.Kevin Garnett
3.Manu Ginobli
4.Chris Paul
5.Dirk
6.Bryant

Hollinger's PER

1)LeBron James, Cavs
2)Chris Paul, Hornets
3)Amare Stoudemire, Suns
4)Kevin Garnett, Celtics
5)Dirk Nowitzki, Mavs
6)Tim Duncan, Spurs
7)Manu Ginobili, Spurs
8)Kobe Bryant, Lakers


You see..it's not that Kobe isn't great. He is. It's just that Manu is vastly underrated.

[Godfather]

No...about 6 or 7..

Top Players..according to Comprehensive rating system system..
1.Kevin Garnett
2.Chauncey Billups (deadly efficient, great defender)
3.Paul Pierce
4.Manu Ginobli
5.Lebron James
6.Chris Paul
7.Dirk Nowitzki
8.Kobe Bryant



Roland ratings
1. Lebron James
2.Kevin Garnett
3.Manu Ginobli
4.Chris Paul
5.Dirk
6.Bryant

Hollinger's PER

1)LeBron James, Cavs
2)Chris Paul, Hornets
3)Amare Stoudemire, Suns
4)Kevin Garnett, Celtics
5)Dirk Nowitzki, Mavs
6)Tim Duncan, Spurs
7)Manu Ginobili, Spurs
8)Kobe Bryant, Lakers


You see..it's not that Kobe isn't great. He is. It's just that Manu is vastly underrated.

Hey you ****ing idiot can you put a # on man to man defense? Well guess what with the new flopping rule in place, Manu has become a sub par defender while Kobe will continue to be an elite one.

[Jinxed]

You can calculate a person's man to man defense by taking the PER of the person he is guarding while he is guarding them.

[Godfather]

You can calculate a person's man to man defense by taking the PER of the person he is guarding while he is guarding them.

lol what if player A guards better players due to being a superior man to man defender while player B runs around like a chicken with his head cut off flopping left and right?

It is pretty obvious that would not work due to Kobe guarding the best perimeter player on the opposing team while Bowen takes that job for the spurs.

[v-unit]

Alright lets debunk this:

Your only proof that Manu is better, statistically, is because of certain rankings, so lets check them out.

Composite score ranking:

1) Kevin Garnett
2) Chauncey Billups
3) Paul Pierce
4) Manu Ginobili
5) LeBron James
6) Chris Paul
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Kobe Bryant
9) Tim Duncan
......................
15) Jamario Moon
21) Vince Carter
30) Peja Stojakovic
43) Ronnie Brewer
47) Deron Williams

So I think we can safely say that the composite score ranking is a load of bull****.

Roland ratings "Highly respected"

P.S. I think it's funny how he stopped at 6, kobe, when the rest of the list goes like this...

1. Lebron James
2.Kevin Garnett
3.Manu Ginobli
4.Chris Paul
5.Dirk
6.Bryant
7. Bosh

Then you have people like Kirilenko right behind Boozer, who is right behind Prince, who is right behind Ilgauskas? WtF?

Please don't use these stats as evidence. There is nothing evident here of Manu's greatness when you have players like Bosh who are apperently the 7th best.

[mongePR(kb24)]

Alright lets debunk this:

Your only proof that Manu is better, statistically, is because of certain rankings, so lets check them out.

Composite score ranking:

1) Kevin Garnett
2) Chauncey Billups
3) Paul Pierce
4) Manu Ginobili
5) LeBron James
6) Chris Paul
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Kobe Bryant
9) Tim Duncan
......................
15) Jamario Moon
21) Vince Carter
30) Peja Stojakovic
43) Ronnie Brewer
47) Deron Williams

So I think we can safely say that the composite score ranking is a load of bull****.

Roland ratings "Highly respected"

P.S. I think it's funny how he stopped at 6, kobe, when the rest of the list goes like this...

1. Lebron James
2.Kevin Garnett
3.Manu Ginobli
4.Chris Paul
5.Dirk
6.Bryant
7. Bosh

Then you have people like Kirilenko right behind Boozer, who is right behind Prince, who is right behind Ilgauskas? WtF?

Please don't use these stats as evidence. There is nothing evident here of Manu's greatness when you have players like Bosh who are apperently the 7th best.

so jamario moon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Deron ?

i like that rating system

[Jimmy2k8]

:oldlol:


Woah. I thought there was something wrong with that silly rating system...but Moon over Williams? :oldlol:

[Jinxed]

Well let's look at why Jamario Moon was ranked so high....

Offensive rank : 42
Defensive Rank:10

Deron Williams

Offensive Rank: 19
Defensive Rank: 167

Deron Williams is a ****TY defender...The only reason you think he's better is because you account for offense more than defense(although we learn time and time again..what wins championships?) because Sportscenter has taught you to believe that the three pointer is better than shutting your man down. Meanwhile Moon is one of the best defenders in the league.

[K.Koscik]

Yes, Manu's numbers aren't incredibly high, but OMG WOW NONE OF THE SPURS HAVE GREAT NUMBERS, even the immortal Tim Duncan and the apparently "better than Ginobli" Tony Parker.

That is just the Spur's system. Also the Spurs always take it easy in the regular season.

My main arguments to those who have poor reading comprehension:

Yes, Kobe puts up monster numbers IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS, but when the finals come around, when it matters most, Kobe starts gunning for Finals MVP regardless of team success. Always underpressure he takes it upon himself, and only himself, to be the one to take every shot.

Ginobli is much calmer underpressure and never would start shot jacking for personal glory. His clutch stats are also much better than Kobe, he shoots 57% in the clutch, compared to Kobe's 48% plus manu is twice as likely to pass as Kobe is in clutch situations. Manu doesn't care how you win aslong as you get the win, while Kobe wants to win, but only if HE is the man doing the winning. For example, Kobe would never be happy winning a finals where Lamar Odom or Pau Gasol won finals MVP instead of him, as seen in last finals against the Celtics, and on his jack spree against Detroit, he would rather shot jack and lose, then pass to his teammates and have the possibility of them playing better than him.

In the regular season Kobe is a beast but then again, so are Dirk and Carmelo Anthony. It is the finals where it matters most, and Kobe just falls apart when it gets there.


You said that the other Spurs don't get great stats. Well, what about Duncan:

20.1ppg 14.5rpg 3.3apg 2.1bpg in 38 minutes. Those are some pretty good stats.

Tony Parker: 22.4ppg 6.1apg 3.7rpg on 50% (0.497) shooting!! in 39 minutes.

While Manu is over there shooting at a 40% clip. REAL effective. Averaging the least points, rebounds and assists of the three.

I don't have to mention how your "clutch shooting" argument is flawed. Although Kobe shoots at 49% in the clutch how about the fact that Kobe also was 2nd in the league in points in the 4th quarter? Manu is pretty high up there as well, but Manu is the third most effective player on that team thus having much less defensive pressure on him than Kobe. Thing is, Kobe is still making shots and winning games, even if (and only in that category) he isn't as effective as Manu.

[juju151111]

Well let's look at why Jamario Moon was ranked so high....

Offensive rank : 42
Defensive Rank:10

Deron Williams

Offensive Rank: 19
Defensive Rank: 167

Deron Williams is a ****TY defender...The only reason you think he's better is because you account for offense more than defense(although we learn time and time again..what wins championships?) because Sportscenter has taught you to believe that the three pointer is better than shutting your man down. Meanwhile Moon is one of the best defenders in the league.
ur rankings are mostly based on stls.They don't track man to man defense

[Jimmy2k8]

:oldlol:


So now Moon is better than Williams? ****ing classic.

[Jinxed]

ur rankings are mostly based on stls.They don't track man to man defense

No man it's not.

These rankings are based on Counterpart PER...which is the person you are guarding's PER (his offensive efficiency ranking) and your defensive adjusted plus/minus..which is how well your team does defensively when you are in the game versus how well your team does when you are out of the game also taking into account who you are playing with on defense.