Kobe Bryant Vs Larry Bird

[Interminator]

It's been a debate question on ESPN with 57% of the vote going to Larry Bird over Kobe.

Kobe's going to pass Larry Bird in points tonight,strangely enough Larry only played 13 seasons and Kobe is currently in his 13th season.

In their prime who is the better player?

[DuMa]

Larry

[hwliuLAP]

unless Kobe wins 1 more MVP and 2 more rings, Larry without a doubt.

[TheGreatDeraj]

They call him Larry Legend for a reason. Even if skill sets were close; Bird had a far bigger impact on the NBA.

[lilojmayo]

unless Kobe wins 1 more MVP and 2 more rings, Larry without a doubt.

even if he does he wont be better the lakers are just to stacked right now w/o kobe that team could still win a championship

[hateraid]

even if he does he wont be better the lakers are just to stacked right now w/o kobe that team could still win a championship

Really? Who's gonna score?

This is a trap thread. It's set up to make Kobe look like a failure once again.

[Loki]

I would pick prime Bird over prime Kobe without a second's hesitation. He was just a better and more impactful player. He gave you a better chance at winning games.

[Interminator]

Kobe is great and everything... but you don't ever mention the legends and compare them with current players or just superstars.

Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Shaq - counts because he's that good
Hakeem Olajuwon


etc

Should not be compared with ordinary players. They're in their own little world.
So Kobe isn't going to be mentioned as a Legend after hes done playing.

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.

[Killer_Instinct]

So Kobe isn't going to be mentioned as a Legend after hes done playing.

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.


Ignorance. No one likes putting present players up there with all time greats, but the fact the majority posters here act as if Kobe is not a living legend at this point are morons. The fact that this comparision seems so inarguable is laughable.

[Da_Realist]

Larry Bird :pimp:

[DuMa]

Kobe still hasnt done anything legendary.

[Rolando]

So Kobe isn't going to be mentioned as a Legend after hes done playing.

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.

Kobe is great but not as great as Bird.

Specificaly, Bird is more clutch in the playoffs. Bird won his chips as the Man. Kobe won his chips as the sidekick.

[Interminator]

Kobe still hasnt done anything legendary.
81 Points

That is the defining image of Kobe's career so far of him hitting 81 points against Toronto.

But Kobe doing something spectacular in the Finals this year will replace that image.

[lilojmayo]

wow

like ive said b4 most casual fans are sensible and know that kobe is nowhere near jordan and not even better than bird

its the kobe homers that are the extreme fans and come on espn and come on message boards saying kobe>jordan jordan was overrated kobe has to play against zone that make you think that ppl actually think kobe is better than jordan

and My theory was proven correct again :bowdown:

[Killer_Instinct]

Kobe still hasnt done anything legendary.


The things Kobe has done, can/has been done by every other Superstar in the league. I'm willing to bet we'll see another Kobe Bryant in the next 2-3 years.

[Killer_Instinct]

wow

like ive said b4 most casual fans are sensible and know that kobe is nowhere near jordan and not even better than bird

its the kobe homers that are the extreme fans and come on espn and come on message boards saying kobe>jordan jordan was overrated kobe has to play against zone that make you think that ppl actually think kobe is better than jordan

and My theory was proven correct again :bowdown:

Who the **** has said that you dumbass? You are the biggest 'homer' on this website. You constantly have your tounge under Mayos balls. Get your head out of your ass.

[Interminator]

Kobe is great but not as great as Bird.

Specificaly, Bird is more clutch in the playoffs. Bird won his chips as the Man. Kobe won his chips as the sidekick.
Bird was the star player but lets not forget his sidekicks for those Championships both are in the HOF.

When you look back on the Laker's 3Peat years from now outside of die hard basketball fans who lived through it they won't be able to name any other players except Kobe & Shaq from that team.

Names like Rick Fox,Derrick Fisher,and Samaki Walker aren't everlasting compared to that of McHale and Parrish.

I'm done because this has the potential to be debated to the death.

Kobe is a Living Legend.
If Kobe retired today he'd go down as the 2nd Greatest SG Of All-Time.

[Interminator]

The things Kobe has done, can/has been done by every other Superstar in the league. I'm willing to bet we'll see another Kobe Bryant in the next 2-3 years.
Doubt it.

There will never be another Kobe because theres never been another Legend player.

I've never seen another Magic,Bird,Kareem,Malone,Stockton,Jordan,Hakeem,Ew ing,Shaq,Kobe,A.I.,Garnett,Kidd,Dirk,Isiah,etc.

Legends carve their own path.

[DuMa]

81 Points

That is the defining image of Kobe's career so far of him hitting 81 points against Toronto.

But Kobe doing something spectacular in the Finals this year will replace that image.

being a great scorer doesnt mean legendary status. there has been lots of great scorers over the years.... theyre not legendary, they just scored a lot of points.

being legendary means winning championships, being feared by your opponents, elevating your game in the most important games, and having consistent memorable moments.

[Killer_Instinct]

Doubt it.

There will never be another Kobe because theres never been another Legend player.

I've never seen another Magic,Bird,Kareem,Malone,Stockton,Jordan,Hakeem,Ew ing,Shaq,Kobe,A.I.,Garnett,Kidd,Dirk,Isiah,etc.

Legends carve their own path.


That was my point.

[Scott Pippen]

Who the **** has said that you dumbass? You are the biggest 'homer' on this website. You constantly have your tounge under Mayos balls. Get your head out of your ass.
I do not defend lilojmayo, but there was many, many, many people saying that. Before The Finals:applause:


Kobe still hasnt done anything legendary.:hammerhead:

[Rolando]

Bird was the star player but lets not forget his sidekicks for those Championships both are in the HOF.

When you look back on the Laker's 3Peat years from now outside of die hard basketball fans who lived through it they won't be able to name any other players except Kobe & Shaq from that team.

Names like Rick Fox,Derrick Fisher,and Samaki Walker aren't everlasting compared to that of McHale and Parrish.

I'm done because this has the potential to be debated to the death.

Kobe is a Living Legend.
If Kobe retired today he'd go down as the 2nd Greatest SG Of All-Time.

Ok. Here's a little "thought experiment" for you: Replace Parish and Mchale with Prime Shaq. Bird would have like 8 championchips. I watched Parish and Mchale play. Bird made them great. Who has Kobe made great? Odom?

[Killer_Instinct]

I do not defend lilojmayo, but there was many, many, many people saying that. Before The Finals:applause:


I was insuating in this thread, no one typed anything remotley close to that but that moron. It's amazing how one side always points the finger at the other side for saying Kobe>MJ, but even more amazing when no one has said it during the disscussion at hand.

[guy]

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.

LOL, not even close. Maybe one day but not now. Kobe has won how many titles as the best player? How many MVPs? You think 3 titles all as a 2nd option is close to 6 titles as the best player? 4 titles as the best player plus 1 more as the 2nd option? 3 titles as the best player? You think 1 MVP is close to 3-5 MVPs? Cause thats what we're talking about when comparing Kobe to Magic, Bird, and Jordan. And lets not forget that right now, Kobe's career has been almost as long as all 3 of those players. Kobe's a legend no doubt, but his accomplishments and overall greatness is not up there with those guys.

[Sir Charles]

Larry Bird 13 Seasons:

MPG: 38.4
PPG: 24.3
TFG: 49.6%
FT: 88.6%
3-Point FG%: 37.6%
RPG:10.0
APG: 6.3
SPG: 1.7
BPG: 0.8

Play-Offs:

MPG: 42.0
PPG: 23.8
TFG: 47.2%
RPG: 10.3
APG: 6.5
SPG: 1.8
BPG: 0.9

Seasons PER:

1981-82 NBA 22.6 (8)
1982-83 NBA 24.1 (3)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (2)
1984-85 NBA 26.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 25.6 (1)
1986-87 NBA 26.4 (3)
1987-88 NBA 27.8 (2)

All-Time Ran in Season PER

18th (Career 17th)

All Time Rank in Play-Off PER

24th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe Bryant 13 Seasons

MPG: 36.4
PPG: 25.0
TFG: 45.3%
FT: 83.9%
3-Point FG%: 34.0%
RPG: 5.3
APG: 4.6
SPG: 1.5
BPG: 0.6

Play-Offs:

MPG: 39.1
PPG: 24.3
TFG: 47.2%
3-Point FG%: 32.1%
RPG: 5.0
APG: 4.3
SPG: 1.4
BPG: 0.7

Seasons PER:

2000-01 NBA 24.5 (6)
2001-02 NBA 23.2 (8)
2002-03 NBA 26.2 (5)
2003-04 NBA 23.7 (5)
2004-05 NBA 23.3 (7)
2005-06 NBA 28.0 (3)
2006-07 NBA 26.1 (3)
2007-08 NBA 24.2 (8)
2008-09 NBA 23.6 (10)

All-Time Ran in Season PER

17th

All Time Rank in Play-Off PER

26th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Career EFF Leaders
Player EFF Seasons

1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16

11 Jerry Lucas 28.13 11
12 Shaquille O'neal 27.59 16
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 27.17 18
14 Kevin Garnett 27.13 13
15 Jerry West 27.10 14
16 David Robinson 26.98 14
17 Karl Malone 26.94 19
18 Tim Duncan 26.59 11
19 LeBron James 26.46 5
20 Walt Bellamy 26.29 14

21 Dave Cowens 26.23 11
22 Maurice Stokes 25.75 3
23 Bob Lanier 25.29 14
24 Bob McAdoo 24.47 14
25 Elton Brand 24.37 9
26 Dirk Nowitzki 24.25 10
27 Moses Malone 24.14 19
28 Willis Reed 24.06 10
29 Elvin Hayes 24.04 16
30 Rick Barry 23.98 10

31 Nate Thurmond 23.73 14
32 Chris Webber 23.72 15
33 Wes Unseld 23.70 13
34 Shawn Marion 23.52 9
35 Chris Paul 23.51 3
36 Billy Cunningham 23.51 9
37 Patrick Ewing 23.41 17
38 Julius Erving 23.35 11
39 Neil Johnston 23.23 8
40 Brad Daugherty 23.10 8
41 Artis Gilmore 22.99 12
42 Dwyane Wade 22.95 5
43 Amare Stoudemire 22.85 6
44 Walt Frazier 22.74 13
45 Gus Johnson 22.63 9
46 Adrian Dantley 22.60 15
47 Kobe Bryant 22.42 12
48 Clyde Drexler 22.42 15
49 Dwight Howard 22.26 4
50 Larry Nance 22.14 13

51 Bill Walton 22.13 10
52 Dolph Schayes 22.10 15
53 George Gervin 22.07 10
54 Dan Issel 21.91 9
55 Pau Gasol 21.91 7
56 Yao Ming 21.90 6
57 Jeff Ruland 21.71 8
58 George Mikan 21.58 7
59 Allen Iverson 21.56 12
60 Kevin Johnson 21.56 12

61 Clark Kellogg 21.55 5
62 Bailey Howell 21.53 12
63 Carlos Boozer 21.49 6
64 Paul Pierce 21.45 10
65 Marques Johnson 21.44 11
66 Chris Bosh 21.41 5
67 Dominique Wilkins 21.26 15
68 Paul Arizin 21.26 10
69 Connie Hawkins 21.25 7
70 Vince Carter 21.16 10

71 Tracy McGrady 21.10 11
72 Grant Hill 21.09 13
73 Pete Maravich 20.98 10
74 Jason Kidd 20.95 14
75 Spencer Haywood 20.84 12
76 Jack Sikma 20.83 14
77 John Stockton 20.80 19
78 John Havlicek 20.68 16
79 Kevin McHale 20.44 13
80 Alex English 20.40 15

81 George McGinnis 20.26 7
82 Isiah Thomas 20.22 13
83 Elmore Smith 20.20 8
84 Carmelo Anthony 20.16 5
85 Dave Debusschere 20.14 12
86 Bob Dandridge 20.03 13
87 Lamar Odom 19.94 9
88 Zelmo Beaty 19.92 8
89 Gilbert Arenas 19.91 7
90 Rudy Tomjanovich 19.77 11

91 Alonzo Mourning 19.77 15
92 Sidney Wicks 19.76 10
93 Bill Bridges 19.73 13
94 Happy Hairston 19.65 11
95 Dan Roundfield 19.60 11
96 Bernard King 19.60 14
97 Alex Groza 19.53 2
98 Scottie Pippen 19.50 17
99 Dave Bing 19.33 12
100 Nate Archibald 19.24 13




-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Bird always the Best Player in his Team. Bryant is the the Best Player in his Team only since Shaq Left

Larry Bird`s mpact in the league way Superior to Bryant`s from 1982-83 to 1987-88 He was Between the Best and Third Best Player in the Season League and Definetly the Best in the Play-Offs

LARRY LEGEND > Kobe Great Player a Top 5-6 SG of All Time Jordan Wanabee

End

:confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

Ok. Here's a little "thought experiment" for you: Replace Parish and Mchale with Prime Shaq. Bird would have like 8 championchips. I watched Parish and Mchale play. Bird made them great. Who has Kobe made great? Odom?
Bird didn't make mchale great.Thats BS.

[lilojmayo]

Larry Bird 13 Seasons:

MPG: 38.4
PPG: 24.3
TFG: 49.6%
FT: 88.6%
3-Point FG%: 37.6%
RPG:10.0
APG: 6.3
SPG: 1.7
BPG: 0.8

Play-Offs:

MPG: 42.0
PPG: 23.8
TFG: 47.2%
RPG: 10.3
APG: 6.5
SPG: 1.8
BPG: 0.9

Seasons PER:

1981-82 NBA 22.6 (8)
1982-83 NBA 24.1 (3)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (2)
1984-85 NBA 26.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 25.6 (1)
1986-87 NBA 26.4 (3)
1987-88 NBA 27.8 (2)

All-Time Ran in Season PER

18th (Career 17th)

All Time Rank in Play-Off PER

24th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe Bryant 13 Seasons

MPG: 36.4
PPG: 25.0
TFG: 45.3%
FT: 83.9%
3-Point FG%: 34.0%
RPG: 5.3
APG: 4.6
SPG: 1.5
BPG: 0.6

Play-Offs:

MPG: 39.1
PPG: 24.3
TFG: 47.2%
3-Point FG%: 32.1%
RPG: 5.0
APG: 4.3
SPG: 1.4
BPG: 0.7

Seasons PER:

2000-01 NBA 24.5 (6)
2001-02 NBA 23.2 (8)
2002-03 NBA 26.2 (5)
2003-04 NBA 23.7 (5)
2004-05 NBA 23.3 (7)
2005-06 NBA 28.0 (3)
2006-07 NBA 26.1 (3)
2007-08 NBA 24.2 (8)
2008-09 NBA 23.6 (10)

All-Time Ran in Season PER

17th

All Time Rank in Play-Off PER

26th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Career EFF Leaders
Player EFF Seasons

1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16

11 Jerry Lucas 28.13 11
12 Shaquille O'neal 27.59 16
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 27.17 18
14 Kevin Garnett 27.13 13
15 Jerry West 27.10 14
16 David Robinson 26.98 14
17 Karl Malone 26.94 19
18 Tim Duncan 26.59 11
19 LeBron James 26.46 5
20 Walt Bellamy 26.29 14

21 Dave Cowens 26.23 11
22 Maurice Stokes 25.75 3
23 Bob Lanier 25.29 14
24 Bob McAdoo 24.47 14
25 Elton Brand 24.37 9
26 Dirk Nowitzki 24.25 10
27 Moses Malone 24.14 19
28 Willis Reed 24.06 10
29 Elvin Hayes 24.04 16
30 Rick Barry 23.98 10

31 Nate Thurmond 23.73 14
32 Chris Webber 23.72 15
33 Wes Unseld 23.70 13
34 Shawn Marion 23.52 9
35 Chris Paul 23.51 3
36 Billy Cunningham 23.51 9
37 Patrick Ewing 23.41 17
38 Julius Erving 23.35 11
39 Neil Johnston 23.23 8
40 Brad Daugherty 23.10 8
41 Artis Gilmore 22.99 12
42 Dwyane Wade 22.95 5
43 Amare Stoudemire 22.85 6
44 Walt Frazier 22.74 13
45 Gus Johnson 22.63 9
46 Adrian Dantley 22.60 15
47 Kobe Bryant 22.42 12
48 Clyde Drexler 22.42 15
49 Dwight Howard 22.26 4
50 Larry Nance 22.14 13

51 Bill Walton 22.13 10
52 Dolph Schayes 22.10 15
53 George Gervin 22.07 10
54 Dan Issel 21.91 9
55 Pau Gasol 21.91 7
56 Yao Ming 21.90 6
57 Jeff Ruland 21.71 8
58 George Mikan 21.58 7
59 Allen Iverson 21.56 12
60 Kevin Johnson 21.56 12

61 Clark Kellogg 21.55 5
62 Bailey Howell 21.53 12
63 Carlos Boozer 21.49 6
64 Paul Pierce 21.45 10
65 Marques Johnson 21.44 11
66 Chris Bosh 21.41 5
67 Dominique Wilkins 21.26 15
68 Paul Arizin 21.26 10
69 Connie Hawkins 21.25 7
70 Vince Carter 21.16 10

71 Tracy McGrady 21.10 11
72 Grant Hill 21.09 13
73 Pete Maravich 20.98 10
74 Jason Kidd 20.95 14
75 Spencer Haywood 20.84 12
76 Jack Sikma 20.83 14
77 John Stockton 20.80 19
78 John Havlicek 20.68 16
79 Kevin McHale 20.44 13
80 Alex English 20.40 15

81 George McGinnis 20.26 7
82 Isiah Thomas 20.22 13
83 Elmore Smith 20.20 8
84 Carmelo Anthony 20.16 5
85 Dave Debusschere 20.14 12
86 Bob Dandridge 20.03 13
87 Lamar Odom 19.94 9
88 Zelmo Beaty 19.92 8
89 Gilbert Arenas 19.91 7
90 Rudy Tomjanovich 19.77 11

91 Alonzo Mourning 19.77 15
92 Sidney Wicks 19.76 10
93 Bill Bridges 19.73 13
94 Happy Hairston 19.65 11
95 Dan Roundfield 19.60 11
96 Bernard King 19.60 14
97 Alex Groza 19.53 2
98 Scottie Pippen 19.50 17
99 Dave Bing 19.33 12
100 Nate Archibald 19.24 13




-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Bird always the Best Player in his Team. Bryant is the the Best Player in his Team only since Shaq Left

Larry Bird`s mpact in the league way Superior to Bryant`s from 1982-83 to 1987-88 He was Between the Best and Third Best Player in the Season League and Definetly the Best in the Play-Offs

LARRY LEGEND > Kobe Great Player a Top 5-6 SG of All Time Jordan Wanabee

End

:confusedshrug:

we were all anticipating your comment Sir Charles and you didnt disappoint :applause:

[Rolando]

Bird didn't make mchale great.Thats BS.

I figured that someone would call me out on that. I can't prove it....so there ya go. It's just my impression from watching them play. I saw Parish and Mchale as "reliable".

[Loki]

So Kobe isn't going to be mentioned as a Legend after hes done playing.

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.

What has Kobe done that is "up there" with Magic/Bird/Jordan?

[catquickspider]

as an individual player I take kobe
but larry as a better team player

you can't forget that larry's teams were always stacked

[Showtime]

So Kobe isn't going to be mentioned as a Legend after hes done playing.

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.
That's just the point: what Kobe has accomplished so far in his career, which is more than most players, isn't in the same class as those players.

[lilojmayo]

What has Kobe done that is "up there" with Magic/Bird/Jordan?

youngest player to score 20000 points :ohwell:

[Showtime]

Bird was the star player but lets not forget his sidekicks for those Championships both are in the HOF.

When you look back on the Laker's 3Peat years from now outside of die hard basketball fans who lived through it they won't be able to name any other players except Kobe & Shaq from that team.

Names like Rick Fox,Derrick Fisher,and Samaki Walker aren't everlasting compared to that of McHale and Parrish.

I'm done because this has the potential to be debated to the death.

Kobe is a Living Legend.
If Kobe retired today he'd go down as the 2nd Greatest SG Of All-Time.

I'm sorry, but anybody know knows anything about basketball during that era will know who Glen Rice was, will understand what Horry brought to that team, will know what veteran presense Lindsey Hunter and Brian Shaw brought, and understood the contributions of other role players like Fisher and Fox. While Rice and Horry might not make the HOF, it still doesn't diminish them to irrelevance and "no name" status, just as DJ isn't forgotten on the Celtics.

[Da_Realist]

you can't forget that larry's teams were always stacked

So were most teams the Celtics faced.

[catquickspider]

So were most teams the Celtics faced.

so?

having a better team means you will look better and have an easier time
regardless of how tough the opponent is

[stephanieg]

Using accolades and awards to compare players is really, really dumb and has to stop.

[Showtime]

so?

having a better team means you will look better and have an easier time
regardless of how tough the opponent is
So does that mean that because the Lakers are stacked this year it makes Kobe look better? Didn't having Shaq make everybody look better? I mean, you can't have it both ways. If Bird isn't that good because he won with a stacked team, then the same should apply to everybody else who won with a stacked team.

[Sir Charles]

I figured that someone would call me out on that. I can't prove it....so there ya go. It's just my impression from watching them play. I saw Parish and Mchale as "reliable".

Agreed althoguh McHale in the Post was onstoppable Offensively (literally) and Top Interior Defender he couldn`t make others Better through Passing or do to Versatility...Shaq could...and that is why Shaq made Bryant Better...in teh same ways Bird made Parish totally and made McHale`s Job easier...

Bird > Bryant :violin:

[Da_Realist]

so?

having a better team means you will look better and have an easier time
regardless of how tough the opponent is

This makes no sense. Larry Bird had better teammates, but he had to compete in a league where all the top teams were also more talented than most teams Kobe has played against. The 80's Sixers, Bucks, Lakers then the late 80's Pistons were just a few of the teams Larry's Celtics had to knock off.

Besides, didn't Kobe play with Shaq for 8 years?

[Sir Charles]

Kobe. Better scorer, considerably better on-ball defender, and team/help defender. Hes not the passer Bird is but hes still one of the best non-pg passers in the entire league. Also draws just as much defensive coverage as Bird and generates just as much open looks for his teammates. Bird was the better long-range shooter, but Kobe is right there with him as a mid-range shooter. Kobe handles the ball better and is every bit as capable of being clutch.

How about saying...Larry Bird could Post Up and Score and Rebound on PFs...?
How about saying...Larry Bird had more ways to Score...other than Shooting from the Outside or Penetrating....?
How about saying...Larry Bird is the Best Rebounding SF in what...the Last 20 years?
How about saying...Lary Bird is the Greatest Clutch Shooter Ever and Last Second Performer Ever?
How aboyt saing...Larry Bird is the Greatest Passer without a Dribble in NBA History?
How about saying...Larry Bird`s B-Ball IQ, Intelligence, Court Awareness, Eye and Hands (both) Coordination + Body Movement is Probably the Best Seen in Baskeball History?

:pimp: :violin:

[Killer_Instinct]

youngest player to score 20000 points :ohwell:

You're an idiot. Your boyfriend hasn't accomplished 00.01 of what Kobe has, but Mayo>Kobe, right? Some morons should not be allowed to post.

[2LeTTeRS]

Kobe. Better scorer, considerably better on-ball defender, and team/help defender. Hes not the passer Bird is but hes still one of the best non-pg passers in the entire league. Also draws just as much defensive coverage as Bird and generates just as much open looks for his teammates. Bird was the better long-range shooter, but Kobe is right there with him as a mid-range shooter. Kobe handles the ball better and is every bit as capable of being clutch.

Kobe isn't a better scorer than Bird, and his questionable shot selection and the amount of times he breaks off the offense and just goes one on one makes him a worse offensive player than Bird. He has him on D though.

[Da_Realist]

Kobe. Better scorer, considerably better on-ball defender, and team/help defender. Hes not the passer Bird is but hes still one of the best non-pg passers in the entire league. Also draws just as much defensive coverage as Bird and generates just as much open looks for his teammates. Bird was the better long-range shooter, but Kobe is right there with him as a mid-range shooter. Kobe handles the ball better and is every bit as capable of being clutch.

There is a lot of subtlety in basketball that is not represented when you break players down like this. You gotta look at them as a complete player and judge by that.

Even with all his tools, Kobe is not the player Larry Bird was.

[big baller]

So far, Bird has had the better carrer....altho i would rather have kobe on my team than Bird. Y? Because Kobe has better athleticism, better clutch, better at going to the rim, and imo better 1 on 1 defender. Bird is a better shooter and rebounder....i really dont know who was the better passer. All i am trying to say here is tht Kobe is the better player, Bird has had the better career. This is in my own opinion, and everyone has thr opinions.

[juju151111]

I figured that someone would call me out on that. I can't prove it....so there ya go. It's just my impression from watching them play. I saw Parish and Mchale as "reliable".
Mchale thought KG his post moves(He never uses them now, but when he was on the wolves in his peim he did).U see bird give mchale some good passes, but thats because ur watching Bird highlights/Mchale was like tim duncan, but not has good.

[juju151111]

1. Kobe is the best rebounding SG in the league.
2. Kobe is just as versatile a scorer.
3. Kobe is one of the best rebounding SG in history.
4. Kobe, like Bird, is one of the most clutch players in history.
:pimp: :violin:
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:roll: :lol :oldlol: :confusedshrug: :hammerhead:

[Ives]

Larry Bird in his prime wouldnt beat Kobe Bryant in a 1-on-1 game.

[ACCBaller1403]

So far, Bird has had the better carrer....altho i would rather have kobe on my team than Bird. Y? Because Kobe has better athleticism, better clutch, better at going to the rim, and imo better 1 on 1 defender. Bird is a better shooter and rebounder....i really dont know who was the better passer. All i am trying to say here is tht Kobe is the better player, Bird has had the better career. This is in my own opinion, and everyone has thr opinions.

You clearly haven't seen Bird play. He was the most fearsome player in clutch situations outside of Jordan, and that's even close.

Kobe is behind Bird and I really don't ever see him catching him. Bird was on another level.

Also, Bird is a far more efficient and intelligent player than Kobe has ever been. The last 2 years people are all over Kobe for scoring less and being more efficient because of his great team, but he's still not as efficient as Bird was.

And the Bird had a better team argument is dumb because
1. Kobe had Shaq who I would take over McHale and Parrish combined (not saying they're bad...both great players, but Shaqs impact was far far more than his numbers)
2. the teams that Bird faced were just as good and better than what Kobe has faced in his playoff career.

[Maniak]

So far, Bird has had the better carrer....altho i would rather have kobe on my team than Bird. Y? Because Kobe has better athleticism, better clutch, better at going to the rim, and imo better 1 on 1 defender. Bird is a better shooter and rebounder....i really dont know who was the better passer. All i am trying to say here is tht Kobe is the better player, Bird has had the better career. This is in my own opinion, and everyone has thr opinions.

:no:

[ACCBaller1403]

I think Kobe is even more ''complete'' then Bird as a all-around game goes.
What exactly makes Bird so much more superior as a player? Please explain.

Bird is a better rebounder, passer, smarter player, more efficient scorer, shooter, teammate, and leader.

Kobe is a better ballhandler and defender, although I think Bird's team defense is being far underrated here. 1 on 1, Kobe's got Bird no doubt though.

Good enough explanation?

[juju151111]

:confusedshrug:
:roll: :roll: http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/files/cache/356a0b754d3195f08497c84b308b4af3.jpg

[Da_Realist]

I think Kobe is even more ''complete'' then Bird as a all-around game goes.
What exactly makes Bird so much more superior as a player? Please explain.

Larry Bird was a more intelligent player who did what was needed for his team to win. He was an efficient scorer that still knew how to keep his teammates involved. He was the greatest passing forward in history. He wasn't the best one-on-one defensive player, but he had defensive instincts on the caliber of Jordan and Olajuwon. I mean he had the ability to manipulate the game on defense as well as offense. He seemed like he was always in the right place at the right time.

1984 -- The Celtics were clearly out-manned by the Lakers in the Finals. They had to rebound to keep the Lakers from running all over them. Larry led the way with 14 boards a game. There may not be a Finals performance better than what he posted in Game 5 of that year. Almost 100 degrees in the Garden with no air conditioning, Larry put up 34 pts (15 -20 fgs), 17 rebs in 42 minutes.

In 1986, he almost averaged a triple double (24 pts, 9.5 assists, 9.7 rebs, 2.7 stls) in the NBA Finals. Look at that again. 9.5 assists when he wasn't the primary ball handler on the team. 9.7 rebounds in a series with Hakeem Olajuwon, Ralph Sampson, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish.

You need scoring? Check.
You need rebounding? Check.
You need passing? Check.
You need leadership? Check.
You need someone to dive for loose balls and go all out for the possesion? Check.

I could go on and on, but I'm tired so I'll go to Kobe.

Kobe can score. The end.

[stephanieg]

LOL @ anyone using 1v1 as an analysis of who you'd want on your team. Just wow. Any wing can pretty much beat any other wing any day of the week. How many stories are there of no names beating elite NBA players in camps or practice or whatever? Both Kobe and Jordan have been owned in 1v1 by people who will never ever be in the NBA -- or by pine roders on their own team. What an idiotic premise.

This only seems to come up with Bird comparisons though...gee, I wonder why.

Now, I'll take Bird over Kobe -- he affects the game in more ways, and a non-scoring Bird on a bad day is a lot more useful than a non-scoring Kobe on a bad day by a mile -- but the chauvinism and "alpha male" crap really has to stop regarding Bird. He was severely outplayed by his team mates on multiple occasions. He choked in major games and was either bailed out or ended up costing his team. He was dominated by opponents. He was shut down by defensive role players. Not as much as Kobe, but still. Take off the rose tinted glasses.

[deaks]

I like Kobe he is a great player.
Whether he is better than bird, I dont really know.
Larry is an NBA legend, one of the all time greats has proved by his stats, rings and endless highlights.
Kobe is yet to reach this point but he is not all that far behind.

Very different players with totally different playing ability and style.

If I wanted one on my team it would be prime bird though!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free Basketball Clips (http://www.funk2dunk.com)

[Maniak]

Larry bird is white therfor kobe is da better player cuz hes blac like waynnne mac

:roll:

[Da_Realist]

From Kobe
you need high volume scoring on very good effieciency? Check
Good efficiency? When?


a deadly post-up game? Check
Deadly post up game? Kobe gets pushed around on the blocks. That's why he likes taking jump shots.


Tremendous explosiveness? Check
Ok


Elite on-ball defense? Check
On who? Rajon Rondo???


Good off-ball/ help D? Check
Yes, when he has a good center in the middle to back up his gambling ways.


Guy who can take over in the fourth? Check
Unless it's an elimination game in the playoffs. Or one in which his team is coughing up a 20+ point lead at home.


Hit big shots? Check
Ok


Draw as much defensive attention as anybody? Check
So did Larry. And he made 50% of his shots. Well over that in his prime.


Create good shots for his teammates? Check
When? Oh...when he could dump the ball into Shaq.


Get you 5-6 assists from the SG spot? Check
OK


Handle the ball? Check
Ok


Guard the 1-2-3 spots? Check
:oldlol: Is that why they hid him on Rondo in the NBA Finals???


Rebound from the guard position as well as anybody? Check
Ok

[catquickspider]

So does that mean that because the Lakers are stacked this year it makes Kobe look better? Didn't having Shaq make everybody look better? I mean, you can't have it both ways. If Bird isn't that good because he won with a stacked team, then the same should apply to everybody else who won with a stacked team.

bird had one of the ALL TIME stacked teams :lol
ALL TIME

when everyone mentions 86 celtics vs 2001 or 2000 lakers it is obvious that the 86 celtics would probably win easily

kobe is a better player in almost every aspect except passing and shooting from 3 :violin:

[Sir Charles]

bird had one of the ALL TIME stacked teams :lol
ALL TIME

when everyone mentions 86 celtics vs 2001 or 2000 lakers it is obvious that the 86 celtics would probably win easily

kobe is a better player in almost every aspect except passing and shooting from 3 :violin:

Add to that Rebounding, Post Scoring, Post Moves, B-Ball IQ, Agressiveness and Will to Win, Overal Inteligence, Court Awareness, Clutch Play and Creativity.

Only thing Kobe has on Bird is Two: Ball Handling and Athletic Abilities: Speed, Leaping, Potence...thats it..

[Showtime]

bird had one of the ALL TIME stacked teams :lol
ALL TIME

when everyone mentions 86 celtics vs 2001 or 2000 lakers it is obvious that the 86 celtics would probably win easily
Ok, the Celtics, top to bottom, were deeper than the Lakers. I can admit that. However, what you failed to admit, though, is that Bird, while on a stacked team, was still far and away the best player who made the biggest impact on games, while Kobe on his stacked team was lead in performance by Shaq. So, when it comes to stacked teams winning rings, one player shined among HOF players, and the other player, while on a team not so stacked, didn't prove himself to be the best. So, the argument that you are presenting actually works against Kobe.

[Thom.Yorke]

all i have to say is end the freakin comparasons of kobe and everyone else, bird is from the 80's we can't time travel to let them play.

Bird was the better player, and had a huge impact on bringing up the nba.

bird is a legend and so is kobe, hate him or not he is still #1 or #2 player on the league easily.

lets lock this thread.

[Godfather]

1. Kobe is the best rebounding SG in the league.
2. Kobe is just as versatile a scorer.
3. Kobe is one of the best rebounding SG in history.
4. Kobe, like Bird, is one of the most clutch players in history.
:pimp: :violin:

ROFL...Pull up Kobe's finals stats and tell me he is one of the most clutch players in history. Kobe Bryant is not one of the best rebounding SG in history, hell he doesn't even come close to Dr. J. Kobe isn't even in Shaq's league and yet he is being compared to Bird?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

why cant you clowns ever compare players of the same position, in the same era?

lets see, today's best SG versus the best SF from 20 years ago.

[Godfather]

why cant you clowns ever compare players of the same position, in the same era?

lets see, today's best SG versus the best SF from 20 years ago.

As a LA fan. From what you have seen of the Celtics and Bird, would you take Kobe Bryant over him?

[Scott Pippen]

why cant you clowns ever compare players of the same position, in the same era?

lets see, today's best SG versus the best SF from 20 years ago.

Larry Bird vs _____ thread (SF player from 1980s) = a few good posters with long intelligent posts and people like BULLS insulting "weak era".



Kobe Bryant vs ______ thread (SG player in NBA today) = flame war with hundreds of insults going back and forth from both sides


This type of thread now is a balance of both. When you break the balance, then Insidehoops NBA Forum goes down the toilet.:applause:

[juju151111]

Er, I said he is one of the best NOT the best.:confusedshrug:
You said history first.ohh by the way how do post pics?

[lefthook00]

Team ball, Bird. One on one, Kobe. And don't think for a second that thats not how it is.

[TmacsRockets]

It's been a debate question on ESPN with 57% of the vote going to Larry Bird over Kobe.

Kobe's going to pass Larry Bird in points tonight,strangely enough Larry only played 13 seasons and Kobe is currently in his 13th season.

In their prime who is the better player?

No contest, it is Bird all the way. 3 MVP's and 2 Finals MVP's and led in PER

[Godfather]

Team ball, Bird. One on one, Kobe. And don't think for a second that thats not how it is.

But, Bird can do something Kobe can't on the offensive end..Dominate the post against equal sized players.

[Eldrunko247]

Larry Bird

[Sir Charles]

Team ball, Bird. One on one, Kobe. And don't think for a second that thats not how it is.

1 on 1 Ball Also Involves Post Scoring, Post Fade Ways, Mid Range Shots and 3-Pointers where Bird would rape Bryant :violin:

[LA_Showtime]

I think Kobe Bryant is the more talented of the two but that Larry Bird had the intangibles that Kobe has yet to show. Bird successfully led his team to championships as the number one option while successfully playing with Parish and McHale. Does Kobe still have the opportunity to pass Bird? Yes.

[Eldrunko247]

I think Kobe Bryant is the more talented of the two but that Larry Bird had the intangibles that Kobe has yet to show. Bird successfully led his team to championships as the number one option while successfully playing with Parish and McHale. Does Kobe still have the opportunity to pass Bird? Yes.
What's the point of having talent if you can't maximize it? Bird and Magic played well beyond their means. Why can't Kobe fans just ever admit someone is better than him without playing the "well, he's more talented card" or coming up with some excuse as to why he's not there yet.

[Showtime]

http://www.breakers.com/media/parrot.jpg

>

http://www.extrememortman.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/Mortons%20steak%20from%20theatermania.jpg

[Connoisseur]

being a great scorer doesnt mean legendary status. there has been lots of great scorers over the years.... theyre not legendary, they just scored a lot of points.

being legendary means winning championships, being feared by your opponents, elevating your game in the most important games, and having consistent memorable moments.

So you're saying Kobe isn't a legend?

You must've missed out on Kobe's prime seasons = 03-04 to 06-07

[Sir Charles]

So you're saying Kobe isn't a legend?

You must've missed out on Kobe's prime seasons = 03-04 to 06-07

He is in his Prime. A Players Prime is usually from ages 23 to 32 (Physical Prime 21-30) and his absolute Peek is 25-30.

After ages 32-33 or 34 your game`s level decreases do to physical breakdowns.

Kobe has 2-3 More Prime Years...although he is Light Built and that could extend it to 5 years, age 35...if lucky.

[Manute for Ever!]

Bird all the way.

[Lebron23]

Larry Bird - the guy can actually win an NBA Championships as the no.1 option of his team

Kobe Bryant is the better scorer, but Prime Bird is one of the most complete player in NBA History.

[Odomize]

in 20 years people who pick kobe will be the majority

[Manute for Ever!]

in 20 years people who pick kobe will be the majority

****, we got another one, guys....

[Alan Flowers]

I tired of people comparing Kobe to the NBA legends. Kobe is great but too often puts himself before the game. The legends of the game have never saw their light above the team or the game, and until Kobe understands that he will just be great. As great as Kobe is he

[Allstar24]

[QUOTE=Alan Flowers]I tired of people comparing Kobe to the NBA legends. Kobe is great but too often puts himself before the game. The legends of the game have never saw their light above the team or the game, and until Kobe understands that he will just be great. As great as Kobe is he

[EricForman]

Bird was the star player but lets not forget his sidekicks for those Championships both are in the HOF.

When you look back on the Laker's 3Peat years from now outside of die hard basketball fans who lived through it they won't be able to name any other players except Kobe & Shaq from that team.

Names like Rick Fox,Derrick Fisher,and Samaki Walker aren't everlasting compared to that of McHale and Parrish.



It's a flawed argument because even though Bird's team was stacked, he played in an era with several other stacked teams. He had to face the Lakers which were equally, if not more stacked.

Prime Shaq is still better than anyone Bird's ever played with... so your argument is flawed every which way.

[XxNeXuSxX]

3. Kobe is one of the best rebounding SG in history.

:rolleyes:

[XxNeXuSxX]

Bird is the better rebounder but Kobe is the best rebounding SG in the league today.:pimp:

Iggy: 6.8 RPG
Daniels: 6.8 RPG
Kobe: 5.1 RPG

[GOBB]

Avery Johnson said Kobe and the decider for him was defense.

[GOBB]

Hard for me to put Kobe over Larry Bird who is a top 10 lock in terms of players in NBA history. However if you eliminate the awards/accomplishments. Team success. And break down the individual player, talent & skills on the hardwood? Then what do you have?

[LJJ]

Hard for me to put Kobe over Larry Bird who is a top 10 lock in terms of players in NBA history. However if you eliminate the awards/accomplishments. Team success. And break down the individual player, talent & skills on the hardwood? Then what do you have?

Easily Bird.

Didn't Bird average 30ppg 7ass 10reb or some shyte while leading his team to the title? I can't say I've seen Bird play more than a few handfuls of games, but everything I've seen looks like Bird was a multiple MVP talent that legitimately won three MVPs.

Kobe is really a borderline MVP at best. He is lucky to have one MVP award.

[Niquesports]

So Kobe isn't going to be mentioned as a Legend after hes done playing.

Why do you guys continously refuse to put Kobe in the same class as Magic,Bird,Jordan,etc. when what Kobe has done so far in his career including his accomplishments is up there with those past legends.
I think the reason Kobe does not get placed with the greats is because he's just beging as his teams clear best player

[TmacsRockets]

Avery Johnson said Kobe and the decider for him was defense.

It's hard for me to put Kobe when he doesn't show up in the finals while Bird has 3 mvp's and 2 finals mvp's.

[LA_Showtime]

It's hard for me to put Kobe when he doesn't show up in the finals while Bird has 3 mvp's and 2 finals mvp's.

I put Larry Bird above Kobe Bryant because Bird had the intangibles Kobe has yet to present. You never questioned Bird's desire to do whatever it takes to win and you can't say that about Kobe. I'm a huge Laker and Kobe fan and I'm still doubtful Kobe is willing to average 20 ppg this season; which would help our team immensely. We have too many talented players for Kobe to have games where he shoots +20 times on less than 40% shooting.

[hack_a_shaq]

It really depends on what you would constitute as a "better player". In terms of what?

But I'll answer your question the way I see it. Who is the better player, Bird or Kobe?

Bird defiantly seems to be the better winner. But when Kobe is in his "zone" I would take him over any other player, ever. Really, who would want to go to a game 7 against Kobe. You never know when this guy will drop 60 on you. He's fully capable of doing what he done in the 06-07 season.

As a team player though, Bird is the better player. But on a team that has Smush Parker and Kwame Brown in the starting lineup, I would rather have a player of Kobe's "style".

[JellyBean]

This is a tough one. Are we looking at 5 year windows or 10 year window. If we go with the 5 year window, I would say Bird. Kobe was still raw. If we went with the 10 year window, I would say Kobe...the most dangerous offensive force in the game.

[Niquesports]

This is a tough one. Are we looking at 5 year windows or 10 year window. If we go with the 5 year window, I would say Bird. Kobe was still raw. If we went with the 10 year window, I would say Kobe...the most dangerous offensive force in the game.


ITs always nearly imposible to compare a scorer to an all around player. Because they do different things . I feel Kobe is a better scorer and defender and Bird had a better all around game. At the End of the day Id say Bird but Kobe isnt finish yet

[hack_a_shaq]

So rings define a players success? No, they define team effort.

If that's the case, Robert Horry should be in the HOF any day now, right?:violin:

[Niquesports]

So rings define a players success? No, they define team effort.

If that's the case, Robert Horry should be in the HOF any day now, right?:violin:
I would say a players team sucess has a little to be said on how we rank players espeically if that player is his teams leader.

[LJJ]

But when Kobe is in his "zone" I would take him over any other player, ever. Really, who would want to go to a game 7 against Kobe. You never know when this guy will drop 60 on you. He's fully capable of doing what he done in the 06-07 season.


Sorry, but you just completely lost anyone taking you seriously in any basketball type discussing.

You'd take "in his zone" Kobe over anyone ever?

Damn.

I'd hope you were talking about anyone in the league right now.

[Loki]

Bird defiantly seems to be the better winner. But when Kobe is in his "zone" I would take him over any other player, ever. Really, who would want to go to a game 7 against Kobe. You never know when this guy will drop 60 on you. He's fully capable of doing what he done in the 06-07 season.

Yeah, too bad he can't enter that zone on command, like a guy like Bird could. There are about 4-7 players I'd be more afraid of in a game 7 than Kobe, because history shows that he's no big deal in elimination games.

[KB42PAH]

this thread is almost laughable

kobe is better at bird at everything other that FT shooting and maybe passing. What a joke of a thread.

[Maniak]

this thread is almost laughable

kobe is better at bird at everything other that FT shooting and maybe passing. What a joke of a thread.

Ban this guy.

Now

[Da_Realist]

Ban this guy.

Now

The guy spends so much time jocking Kobe, he probably never saw five Larry Bird games. Maybe he should invest in a few celtics dvds so he can have a more educated opinion. :rolleyes:

[KB42PAH]

Ban this guy.

Now

Why cause you think this guy is better than kobe? :roll: :lol :oldlol:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/paul_forrester/02/23/cap.moments/t1_bird.jpg

[KB42PAH]

The guy spends so much time jocking Kobe, he probably never saw five Larry Bird games. Maybe he should invest in a few celtics dvds so he can have a more educated opinion. :rolleyes:

Lebron and Pippen are miles ahead of Bird. Bird was a defensive liabilty. Like a statue , slow, weak, poor shooting mechanics.

He is most overrated player all time after Bill Russell.

[Maniak]

Why cause you think this guy is better than kobe? :roll: :lol :oldlol:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/paul_forrester/02/23/cap.moments/t1_bird.jpg

Yes actually. I do

And if you ever got your 5 year old head to watch some old school tapes, youd believe me.

[Da_Realist]

Lebron and Pippen are miles ahead of Bird. Bird was a defensive liabilty. Like a statue , slow, weak, poor shooting mechanics.

He is most overrated player all time after Bill Russell.

FG% = Bird > Kobe
3pt FG% = Bird > Kobe
Rebounding = Bird > Kobe
Assists = Bird > Kobe
Scoring = Kobe > Bird
Steals = Bird > Kobe
Blocks = Bird > Kobe

[Niquesports]

Lebron and Pippen are miles ahead of Bird. Bird was a defensive liabilty. Like a statue , slow, weak, poor shooting mechanics.

He is most overrated player all time after Bill Russell.


Id love to be considered overrated after leading my team to 11 titles.

[KB42PAH]

FG% = Bird > Kobe
3pt FG% = Bird > Kobe
Rebounding = Bird > Kobe
Assists = Bird > Kobe
Scoring = Kobe > Bird
Steals = Bird > Kobe
Blocks = Bird > Kobe

2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s

stats mean nothing anyway - especially from 80s. Any stats prior to 90s are pretty much negligable. New rules, new game.

[KB42PAH]

Id love to be considered overrated after leading my team to 11 titles.

Ya with what ?? 6-8 teams in the NBA at the time?

It was a joke of a league .

[Da_Realist]

2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s
2000-present>80s

stats mean nothing anyway - especially from 80s. Any stats prior to 90s are pretty much negligable. New rules, new game.

It's obvious you've never watched Bird play. I know it doesn't seem like it, but the NBA existed before Kobe. You know quite a bit about Kobe...that's good. But don't give your opinion on someone you clearly have never watched. Or an era you've never watched.

Of course stats mean nothing to you in this debate because Kobe doesn't stack up well in any area.

[KB42PAH]

It's obvious you've never watched Bird play. I know it doesn't seem like it, but the NBA existed before Kobe. You know quite a bit about Kobe...that's good. But don't give your opinion on someone you clearly have never watched. Or an era you've never watched.

Of course stats mean nothing to you in this debate because Kobe doesn't stack up well in any area.

I've watched plenty of Bird games, complete garbage. I cannot even stand watching it. Its like a pickup exhibition game or something. So weak, slow stand-still single coverage all day long.

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.'' - Kobe Bryant

[Maniak]

I've watched plenty of Bird games, complete garbage. I cannot even stand watching it. Its like a pickup exhibition game or something. So weak, slow stand-still single coverage all day long.

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.'' - Kobe Bryant

I never knew Kobe spoke in the third person like that. Cool

[Niquesports]

Ya with what ?? 6-8 teams in the NBA at the time?

It was a joke of a league .


and you call todays league where Labron can lead a team of weak players to the finals a league where Allen iverson can lead a weak team to the finals

[KB42PAH]

I never knew Kobe spoke in the third person like that. Cool

He didn't. Apparently you don't know what 3rd person is . It was clearly taken from an article.

Fail.:roll: :banana:

[KB42PAH]

and you call todays league where Labron can lead a team of weak players to the finals a league where Allen iverson can lead a weak team to the finals

Defense wins championships.

Cavs = top 5 defensive team in the NBA, ben wallace 4 time DPOY, illguaskus 7''3, lebron = tank plays passing lanes, pavlovic solid defender as well.

Sixers: Eric snow, mutumbo, Aaron Mckie all great defensive players and Iverson is great at playing passing lanes.

[Da_Realist]

I've watched plenty of Bird games, complete garbage. I cannot even stand watching it. Its like a pickup exhibition game or something. So weak, slow stand-still single coverage all day long.

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.'' - Kobe Bryant

^^ Kobe trying to convince the world he is the best. :oldlol:



Death of Defense (2006) (http://*********.com/articles/defense_lazenby.htm)

New Jersey Nets executive Rod Thorn, a longtime expert on NBA rules, acknowledges that last season the league adopted a dramatic shift in how it interpreted the rules of the game.

No longer would a defensive player on the perimeter be allowed to use his hand, a barred arm or any sort of physical contact to impede or block the movement of either a cutter or a ball handler.

In a recent interview, Thorn said that the NBA had changed the rule to give an advantage to the offensive player.

“It’s more difficult now to guard the quick wing player who can handle the ball,” Thorn said of the change. “I think it helps skilled players over someone who just has strength or toughness. What the NBA is trying to do is promote unimpeded movement for dribblers or cutters.”

Thorn said the change was made because muscular defensive players had gotten the upper hand.

“My opinion is that the game had gone too much toward favoring strong players over skilled players,” Thorn said. “The NBA felt there was too much body, too much hand-checking, being used by defenders to the detriment of the game. There was a feeling that there was too much advantage for a defensive player who could merely use his strength to control the offensive player.”

...

This new way of calling became increasingly apparent with each regular-season game last year, and it really made an impression during the playoffs. Free from the physical challenge of defenders, offensive players found many more opportunities to attack the basket – and draw fouls.

As a result, the new rules interpretation helped promote the emergence last season of a new generation of super stars, from Kobe Bryant scoring his 81 points during a regular season game, to LeBron James, Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas and Dwyane Wade making big splashes in the playoffs.

“The good wing players – LeBron, Kobe, Arenas, Wade, Carter – shot a lot of free throws with the way the game is now called,” Thorn admitted.

[Showtime]

I've watched plenty of Bird games, complete garbage. I cannot even stand watching it. Its like a pickup exhibition game or something. So weak, slow stand-still single coverage all day long.

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.'' - Kobe Bryant
Funny, since now centers have to vacate the lane, and the defensive box and charge line means players like Wade can just throw themselves into a post defender and can get the call unless the defender has a perfect stance. Not all teams play zone, and Kobe see plenty of single defenders every game. Stop making excuses. Stop trying to paint a picture that isn't real. People here, for the most part, are smarter than you and your BS doesn't fly here Alborz. Please leave.

[Maniak]

He didn't. Apparently you don't know what 3rd person is . It was clearly taken from an article.

Fail.:roll: :banana:
:wtf:

It said said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's.

then it said -Kobe Bryant

How is that NOT third person?

[hack_a_shaq]

Lebron and Pippen are miles ahead of Bird. Bird was a defensive liabilty. Like a statue , slow, weak, poor shooting mechanics.

He is most overrated player all time after Bill Russell.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[insidehoops]

:wtf:

It said said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's.

then it said -Kobe Bryant

How is that NOT third person?

It's not 3rd person.

[Niquesports]

Defense wins championships.

Cavs = top 5 defensive team in the NBA, ben wallace 4 time DPOY, illguaskus 7''3, lebron = tank plays passing lanes, pavlovic solid defender as well.

Sixers: Eric snow, mutumbo, Aaron Mckie all great defensive players and Iverson is great at playing passing lanes.
And neither one of these teams would have stop the celtics from winning therer 11 titles.for a guy that says defense wins games and them talk about bill Russell the greatest defeses center of all time is confusing

[Maniak]

It's not 3rd person.

Fine

Its an interview because it says, said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's , but then it goes into a quote with it saying -Kobe Bryant.

[Da_Realist]

I've watched plenty of Bird games, complete garbage. I cannot even stand watching it. Its like a pickup exhibition game or something. So weak, slow stand-still single coverage all day long.


It's obvious you haven't. Here's some clips of Bird in his prime. Look at the court awareness this guy has.

Larry Bird -- 1986 Finals (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7F95FC33E153D2BC)

Maybe you can find Kobe's best series to date, do something similar and we can compare. Maybe LA vs SA 2001? Seriously, I'd love to see someone put a string of playoff games together like this on Kobe. I'd do it myself, but it's a little further down my priority list. You're real good at editing videos. Try it. I'd actually like to see it.

[Maniak]

It's obvious you haven't. Here's some clips of Bird in his prime. Look at the court awareness this guy has.

Larry Bird -- 1986 Finals (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7F95FC33E153D2BC)

Maybe you can find Kobe's best series to date, do something similar and we can compare. Maybe LA vs SA 2001? Seriously, I'd love to see someone put a string of playoff games together like this on Kobe. I'd do it myself, but it's a little further down my priority list. You're real good at editing videos. Try it. I'd actually like to see it.

Kobes best playoff series=2008 Finals VS Boston Celtics when he choked a giant lead then lost by like 40pts in game 6. Amazing play by Bryant, put the haters to shame

[KB42PAH]

Truth: Kobe is undisputedly a top 5 player of all-time

Larry Bird = Keith Van Horn+Passing.

From 1997-2006, Van Horn put up 16 ppg on 44% FG, 36% 3PT , 84% FT. I would expect Bird to put up very similar numbers in today's game. Bird would be a better FT Shooter and would average way more assists. Van Horn only averaged 1.6 apg , Bird would be around 5 or 6.

[Da_Realist]

Truth: Kobe is undisputedly a top 5 player of all-time

Larry Bird = Keith Van Horn+Passing.

From 1997-2006, Van Horn put up 16 ppg on 44% FG, 36% 3PT , 84% FT. I would expect Bird to put up very similar numbers in today's game. Bird would be a better FT Shooter and would average way more assists. Van Horn only averaged 1.6 apg , Bird would be around 5 or 6.



Maybe you can find Kobe's best series to date, do something similar and we can compare. Maybe LA vs SA 2001? Seriously, I'd love to see someone put a string of playoff games together like this on Kobe. I'd do it myself, but it's a little further down my priority list. You're real good at editing videos. Try it. I'd actually like to see it.

???

[dhenk]

Larry Bird = Keith Van Horn+Passing.


Yepp. It

[KB42PAH]

???


Last year in 15 games prior to the finals, Kobe was averaging 31ppg 7 apg 6 rpg 51% FG. Thats 15 games, not 1 series.

Kobe simply hasn't played in that many playoff games in his prime: 2005-present. 2006 and 2007 he was limited to the first round, last year he played alot and showed just how good he is.

Kobe's 49 points, 10 assist game vs Denver>>>>any Bird game in playoffs.

[Loki]

Lebron and Pippen are miles ahead of Bird. Bird was a defensive liabilty. Like a statue , slow, weak, poor shooting mechanics.



Both of those statements are laughable, but especially Pippen. :oldlol: I remember when you were called out on it, you said "who would win a 1-on-1," as uneducated clowns like yourself are wont to do. I told you that Bird would win a 1-on-1 with Pippen and you never replied, probably because you never saw Bird play. Bird would rape Pippen one-on-one. He was a much better individual offensive player.

[Da_Realist]

Last year in 15 games prior to the finals, Kobe was averaging 31ppg 7 apg 6 rpg 51% FG. Thats 15 games, not 1 series.

Kobe simply hasn't played in that many playoff games in his prime: 2005-present. 2006 and 2007 he was limited to the first round, last year he played alot and showed just how good he is.

Kobe's 49 points, 10 assist game vs Denver>>>>any Bird game in playoffs.

Those are just stats. Let's see it. Because sometimes players are awarded assists for just passing to an open teammate. Not very impressive, but still an assist. How many of those 7 assists were the result of Kobe setting up his teammates like Larry did? I would like to see that in a video montage. How many of those 31 points came off free-throws? I would like to see that too.

I'd really like to see it. It's a lot of work so I would understand if you didn't want to do it but I think it would be nice to see.

[Showtime]

Dirk. Case closed.

I don't want to hear how Bird would just be average when a lesser player won MVP and went to the finals.

[KB42PAH]

Both of those statements are laughable, but especially Pippen. :oldlol: I remember when you were called out on it, you said "who would win a 1-on-1," as uneducated clowns like yourself are wont to do. I told you that Bird would win a 1-on-1 with Pippen and you never replied, probably because you never saw Bird play. Bird would rape Pippen one-on-one. He was a much better individual offensive player.


pippen would crush bird 1 on 1. Pippen = beast. Bird = weak.

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__15/ept_sports_nba_experts-900935588-1226697525.jpg?ym183UADtxIKyOrF

[hack_a_shaq]

pippen would crush bird 1 on 1. Pippen = beast. Bird = weak.

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__15/ept_sports_nba_experts-900935588-1226697525.jpg?ym183UADtxIKyOrF

I second that. Pippen is one of the toughest defensive players to grace the league, ever. I can see Pippen giving bird fits.

[KenneBell]

Those are just stats. Let's see it. Because sometimes players are awarded assists for just passing to an open teammate. Not very impressive, but still an assist. How many of those 7 assists were the result of Kobe setting up his teammates like Larry did? I would like to see that in a video montage. How many of those 31 points came off free-throws? I would like to see that too.

I'd really like to see it. It's a lot of work so I would understand if you didn't want to do it but I think it would be nice to see.
http://www.youtube.com/user/lalousse24

This guy has almost every Kobe game from the last playoffs. It's mostly scoring highlights though. As for the assists, most of them were setups for Gasol and Odom. He was their playmaker for the whole season.

He averaged 9.7FTAs.

[Da_Realist]

Last year in 15 games prior to the finals, Kobe was averaging 31ppg 7 apg 6 rpg 51% FG. Thats 15 games, not 1 series.

Kobe simply hasn't played in that many playoff games in his prime: 2005-present. 2006 and 2007 he was limited to the first round, last year he played alot and showed just how good he is.

Kobe's 49 points, 10 assist game vs Denver>>>>any Bird game in playoffs.

Also, if you think Kobe played well in the Phoenix series in 2006 or 2007, post it. I wouldn't recommend it, but you could post it anyway...

[Da_Realist]

http://www.youtube.com/user/lalousse24

This guy has almost every Kobe game from the last playoffs. It's mostly scoring highlights though. As for the assists, most of them were setups for Gasol and Odom. He was their playmaker for the whole season.

He averaged 9.7FTAs.

That's kind of the point. It's mostly scoring highlights though. I want to see what Kobe does besides score the ball. I want to see a video that shows Kobe scoring, rebounding, setting up his teammates, playing great defense, hustling for loose balls and coming up big in key moments of the game. For an entire series.

[KenneBell]

I want to see what Kobe does besides score the ball.
Well, I don't know where you;re going to find that. Nobody likes to watch Kobe pass. That's no fun. :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

Well, I don't know where you;re going to find that. Nobody likes to watch Kobe pass. That's no fun. :oldlol:

That's what we mean when we say Larry Bird was a more complete player. He did all those things. And I could have easily chosen a number of other series besides 1986 Finals to illustrate the point.

[Loki]

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.'' - Kobe Bryant

You can quote this incredibly self-serving statement from Kobe all you want, but what groopies like yourself fail to realize is that we did see Kobe under man-to-man rules for the first 8+ years of his career. He was no world-beater then. He's trying to make himself into something he isn't (i.e., a dominant player on the level of Jordan), much like his fans try to do.

[hack_a_shaq]

That's kind of the point. It's mostly scoring highlights though. I want to see what Kobe does besides score the ball.

Stop watching the NBA and watch college.

[KenneBell]

That's what we mean when we say Larry Bird was a more complete player. He did all those things. And I could have easily chosen a number of other series besides 1986 Finals to illustrate the point.
Kobe did do those things. No one wants to watch them though. :confusedshrug:

I don't watch Kobe for his passing. He's a dynamic scorer. I don't watch Chris Paul for his scoring even though he can do it.

[Showtime]

pippen would crush bird 1 on 1. Pippen = beast. Bird = weak.

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__15/ept_sports_nba_experts-900935588-1226697525.jpg?ym183UADtxIKyOrF
Is that why a past-his-prime Bird dropped 38/11/9 on young Pip and the bulls?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU

[hack_a_shaq]

Is that why a past-his-prime Bird dropped 38/11/9 on young Pip and the bulls?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU

Is that one on one basketball?

no.

[Da_Realist]

Kobe did do those things. No one wants to watch them though. :confusedshrug:

I don't watch Kobe for his passing. He's a dynamic scorer. I don't watch Chris Paul for his scoring even though he can do it.

No offense, but that says more about you than Kobe.

I understand what you're saying. Kobe is an exciting, explosive player but Larry Bird could score just as much and more efficiently. In addition, he was a more complete player and as such was a better player than Kobe is.

[KB42PAH]

No offense, but that says more about you than Kobe.

I understand what you're saying. Kobe is an exciting, explosive player but Larry Bird could score just as much and more efficiently. In addition, he was a more complete player and as such was a better player than Kobe is.

:roll:

Watch this video - then realize how stupid you sound (watch in high quality - I made it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mrCo8M268

Kobe is not the most efficient player ever, but he is efficient enough. kobe is simply the offensive player to ever live. couple that with the fact that he is an 8 time all-nba defensive team member = goat or top 3 undisputed.

[Showtime]

Is that one on one basketball?

no.

Did he not beat Pippen several times when Pippen was covering him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtA7RfpRsjA

[Loki]

Last year in 15 games prior to the finals, Kobe was averaging 31ppg 7 apg 6 rpg 51% FG. Thats 15 games, not 1 series.

First off, it's convenient of you to look at Kobe's best playoff run (not even a full playoff run, mind you, since you're picking and choosing which series to exclude, in this case the Finals). Secondly, it was 31.9 pts/6.1 reb/5.8 ast, so 32/6/6 if you're rounding. Lastly, I'd love to have seen his numbers without the 14+ FTA he averaged through the first two rounds.


Kobe's 49 points, 10 assist game vs Denver>>>>any Bird game in playoffs.

Wow. Just wow. I'll highlight the important part: "vs. Denver."

[hack_a_shaq]

Did he not beat Pippen several times when Pippen was covering him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtA7RfpRsjA

and who is going to pass him the ball in the post? He does have a good post game, but in 1 on 1 the post game is a lot more difficult. IMO.

[Loki]

:roll:

Watch this video - then realize how stupid you sound (watch in high quality - I made it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mrCo8M268

Kobe is not the most efficient player ever, but he is efficient enough. kobe is simply the offensive player to ever live. couple that with the fact that he is an 8 time all-nba defensive team member = goat or top 3 undisputed.

Kobe is not even a top 5 offensive player ever; MJ, Magic, Bird, KAJ, and Wilt are all better, and Shaq and West might be too. As a pure scorer, he's not even top 3-4 (I'd take Jordan, Wilt, and KAJ above him at a minimum, probably Shaq too; i.e., if you needed a 30 ppg scorer for your team, you'd be crazy to take Kobe over any of those guys).

[Da_Realist]

:roll:

Watch this video - then realize how stupid you sound (watch in high quality - I made it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mrCo8M268

Kobe is not the most efficient player ever, but he is efficient enough. kobe is simply the greatest scorer to ever live.

Stupid? Are you serious??? What in that video contradicts anything I've said?
Are you talking about me saying Bird could score just as much? He did. He averaged 24.3 ppg for his career. On 50 fg%. Kobe's averaged 25.3 ppg over his career on 45 fg%.

What did your video show except some nice offensive moves by Kobe?

[Loki]

and who is going to pass him the ball in the post? He does have a good post game, but in 1 on 1 the post game is a lot more difficult. IMO.

You people are insane if you think Pippen has ANY CHANCE against Bird in a 1-on-1. Bird could always just back off and give Pippen his shaky at best jumper. What can Pippen give Bird? Nothing. Post up? Bird would back Pip down from the top of the key to underneath the basket.

You cats are crazy. Bird was a much better one-on-one player than Pippen.

[Showtime]

and who is going to pass him the ball in the post? He does have a good post game, but in 1 on 1 the post game is a lot more difficult. IMO.

Well, if you want it that way, go watch And 1. This is the NBA, where it's a team sport, and if you want one on one, it's when one player beats another on a play, which is what Bird did to just about everybody, including Pippen.

[Scott Pippen]

Stop watching the NBA and watch college.
NCAA D1 Tournament> current NBA:applause:

[Nevaeh]

Kobe is not even a top 5 offensive player ever; MJ, Magic, Bird, KAJ, and Wilt are all better, and Shaq and West might be too. As a pure scorer, he's not even top 3-4 (I'd take Jordan, Wilt, and KAJ above him at a minimum, probably Shaq too; i.e., if you needed a 30 ppg scorer for your team, you'd be crazy to take Kobe over any of those guys).

This is what separates the great players from the Legends. To be a legend you should at least be able to kick up any facet of your game depending on whats most required for team success. 87 Magic was asked by Pat Riley to increase his scoring load to take pressure off of an aging Kareem, and he did it to great success.

Likewise, 91 MJ was asked by Phil to get his teammates more involved, and he did to the tune of like 11 assists per game in the NBA Finals. Keep in mind these guys did it when it mattered the Most, In the FINAL series. What you did leading up to that point should be a culmination of all aspects of your game coming together when it MATTERS.

If Bird's team needed a big 3 during a crucial moment, he gave it to them. If they needed rebounding, and quick outlet passes, he gave them that. The key word though, is it was done consistently, not sometimes or during a meaningless game in the middle of April.

Kobe's a great player, he's just not a leader like the Legends were. He's a great cog in the wheel type player, but not someone who I would consider ever reaching Legend status. His game, unfortunately, is just not designed for it.

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe Bryant is not a top 5 all time scorer. The last couple of seasons, Kobe has definitely been up there, but not over his career. The year Kobe averaged 35 was amazing, and he reminded me of Jordan, but otherwise the comparisons end there.

[KB42PAH]

Kobe Bryant is not a top 5 all time scorer. The last couple of seasons, Kobe has definitely been up there, but not over his career. The year Kobe averaged 35 was amazing, and he reminded me of Jordan, but otherwise the comparisons end there.

:roll: :lol :oldlol:

classic.

[LA_Showtime]

:roll: :lol :oldlol:

classic.

When Kobe is hitting at all cylinders he's definitely one of the best. The problem is that his poor shot selection makes it much harder for him to have efficient games.

For his career: regular season: 45.3% shooting

playoffs: 44.5% shooting

[RaininThrees]

As soon as Kobe leads his team to a championship as the undisputed leader, I'll start thinking about putting them in the same class.

[LarryLegend33]

This is a freaking joke. Kobe isn't on the same planet as Bird. Kobe is closer to Ben Gordon than Bird.

[LA_Showtime]

This is a freaking joke. Kobe isn't on the same planet as Bird. Kobe is closer to Ben Gordon than Bird.

You're a moron. And i'm not a Kobe troll, read my other posts.

[iggy>]

2000-present>the 80s? :oldlol: what foolishness


the 80s and 90s>>>>>>>All

[JohnnySic]

the 80s and 90s>>>>>>>All
The 80's I'll give you. The 90's, nope.

[Killer_Instinct]

First off, it's convenient of you to look at Kobe's best playoff run (not even a full playoff run, mind you, since you're picking and choosing which series to exclude, in this case the Finals). Secondly, it was 31.9 pts/6.1 reb/5.8 ast, so 32/6/6 if you're rounding. Lastly, I'd love to have seen his numbers without the 14+ FTA he averaged through the first two rounds.



Wow. Just wow. I'll highlight the important part: "vs. Denver."


Now we're removing FTs from players? That's hot right now, huh?

[TmacsRockets]

:roll:

Watch this video - then realize how stupid you sound (watch in high quality - I made it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mrCo8M268

Kobe is not the most efficient player ever, but he is efficient enough. kobe is simply the offensive player to ever live. couple that with the fact that he is an 8 time all-nba defensive team member = goat or top 3 undisputed.

He isn't even top 3 for his position. Hell since when does a guy get top 3 all time without at 3 league MVP's and/or 3 finals mvp's?

Kobe is no better than Rick Barry because at least Barry led his team to the finals and won it all as the man vs Kobe who doesn't show up with a stacked team and has 3 other top 25 players on his team and loses to a team that had no top 50 players in the league at the time.

[gotbacon23]

He isn't even top 3 for his position. Hell since when does a guy get top 3 all time without at 3 league MVP's and/or 3 finals mvp's?

Kobe is no better than Rick Barry because at least Barry led his team to the finals and won it all as the man vs Kobe who doesn't show up with a stacked team and has 3 other top 25 players on his team and loses to a team that had no top 50 players in the league at the time.

don't say crap like that- its stupid and doesn't accomplish anything. jordan, kobe, and allen iverson are the only shooting guards EVER to win regular season mvps and iverson is more of a combo guard. to say that he isn't even a top 3 sg of all-time and is no better then rick barry (who is great but is no kobe) is just asking for people to jump all over you. and i hate kobe btw.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

:roll: :lol :oldlol:

classic.
you mad at a realistic fan groupie?

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

2000-present>the 80s? :oldlol: what foolishness


the 80s and 90s>>>>>>>All
shh, the obvious is hidden from the blinded koME fans.

[step_back]

youngest player to score 20000 points :ohwell:

Lebron will pass that if he stays healthy.

[crisoner]

Hey...it's JuStIn in a Kobe thread!!!! Wow thats original!!!

[Mdog1]

Lebron will pass that if he stays healthy.

I wouldn't be surprised if it only took LeBron another 10 years to get 30,000. Kid is a dynamic scorer who once his team gets good enough the drive lanes will be wide open and will score 35 easy.

[Psileas]

I wouldn't be surprised if it only took LeBron another 10 years to get 30,000. Kid is a dynamic scorer who once his team gets good enough the drive lanes will be wide open and will score 35 easy.

No way will he average 37.5 ppg for 10 years (if we accept that he plays 80 games a year) and it's very doubtful he'll do it for even 1-2 seasons. After all, the only players to ever get 3,000 points in a season were guys with low-level teammates, who needed to take a lot of shots. It's still only been done a total of 4 times in history.
To put it another way, LeBron would never accept playing for a team bad enough to need 35.0+ ppg from him for 10 years in a row and if he did, he'd have to retire at the age of like 32 due to extreme tiredness.
If he gets a great cast, as you claim, there won't be any need for him to get that many, and if he still does, it will cause friction to his team and will give him a ballhog status.

[gotbacon23]

No way will he average 37.5 ppg for 10 years (if we accept that he plays 80 games a year) and it's very doubtful he'll do it for even 1-2 seasons. After all, the only players to ever get 3,000 points in a season were guys with low-level teammates, who needed to take a lot of shots. It's still only been done a total of 4 times in history.
To put it another way, LeBron would never accept playing for a team bad enough to need 35.0+ ppg from him for 10 years in a row and if he did, he'd have to retire at the age of like 32 due to extreme tiredness.
If he gets a great cast, as you claim, there won't be any need for him to get that many, and if he still does, it will cause friction to his team and will give him a ballhog status.

i think he meant he may be able to get to 30,000 TOTAL points in 10 years from now (or basically 20,000 in the next 10 years to get him to about 30,000)... not get 30,000 points in the next 10 years but be at 30,000 career points in 10 years from now (or 15-16 years into his career).

[BIZARRO]

:roll:

Watch this video - then realize how stupid you sound (watch in high quality - I made it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42mrCo8M268

Kobe is not the most efficient player ever, but he is efficient enough. kobe is simply the offensive player to ever live. couple that with the fact that he is an 8 time all-nba defensive team member = goat or top 3 undisputed.

I know you typed "kobe is simply the greatest offensive player to ever live", but even your computer wouldn't accept it. :oldlol: :D :oldlol:

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe Bryant is a great player and people should just leave it at that. People on this site ***** and moan about Kobe being compared to Jordan when really the only people who do that are 5 year old idiots who can't even spell "NBA." Kobe has not once said he's the second coming of Jordan. Respect the man because he works hard and stop complaining about everything he says or does. End.

[Odomize]

http://nbcsportsmedia.msnbc.com/j/apmegasports/200612050046027976917-pf.widec.jpghttp://www.hollywoodcollectibles.com/autographed/memorabilia/sports/collectibles/authentic/Basketball/8x10%20Photos/Larry_Bird_Auto_Photo5_mid.jpg

all hail Larry Legend :bowdown:

[Mdog1]

No way will he average 37.5 ppg for 10 years (if we accept that he plays 80 games a year) and it's very doubtful he'll do it for even 1-2 seasons. After all, the only players to ever get 3,000 points in a season were guys with low-level teammates, who needed to take a lot of shots. It's still only been done a total of 4 times in history.
To put it another way, LeBron would never accept playing for a team bad enough to need 35.0+ ppg from him for 10 years in a row and if he did, he'd have to retire at the age of like 32 due to extreme tiredness.
If he gets a great cast, as you claim, there won't be any need for him to get that many, and if he still does, it will cause friction to his team and will give him a ballhog status.

I was exaggerating, but I know he will get 30,000 before his career is over. If he can stay healthy that is. Kobe might not get 30,000 because he won't need to. And LeBron is averaging like 34 ppg in the last week or so, so I don't think it is that far out of his reach if he continues.

[Mdog1]

i think he meant he may be able to get to 30,000 TOTAL points in 10 years from now (or basically 20,000 in the next 10 years to get him to about 30,000)... not get 30,000 points in the next 10 years but be at 30,000 career points in 10 years from now (or 15-16 years into his career).

Oh lol yes that is exactly what I meant sorry I thought that was understandable.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Please tell me this thread is a bunch of comedians.

[Psileas]

Oh lol yes that is exactly what I meant sorry I thought that was understandable.

I certainly agree, then.

[Mdog1]

I certainly agree, then.

Yeah lol I didn't mean 30,000 over the next ten lol. That would be AMAZING if he could do that. The only player to ever even come close to doing something like that would be Wilt if he would have just kept going.

[2LeTTeRS]

I've watched plenty of Bird games, complete garbage. I cannot even stand watching it. Its like a pickup exhibition game or something. So weak, slow stand-still single coverage all day long.

"The rules are completely different now,'' said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's. "I've always been able to shoot the ball, but the rules have changed since he played in terms of playing a zone defense. You have to be a jump shooter now because there's no way you can get to the basket -- particularly myself because they just stack guys up. I wish we had the rules they had back in the day where you could isolate guys and you could go to the basket anytime. But now you have to be able to shoot.'' - Kobe Bryant

Somebody should explain that to Wade and LeBron. Maybe if the NBA didn't have the defensive 3 second violation which basically prohibits teams from playing good zones that would make sense, but as of now defense back then were more physical play was allowed was tougher.


Fine

Its an interview because it says, said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's , but then it goes into a quote with it saying -Kobe Bryant.

Do you really not get it? The words he's saying are in quotations marks. He did not say "said Bryant, comparing his era to Jordan's" or "Kobe Bryant." Did you really not get that?

[TruthKGRay3412]

Loul Deng>>MJ/Kobe/Bird

http://antimarc.flashrapid.com/spaptions/luolz.jpg

[Mdog1]

[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]Somebody should explain that to Wade and LeBron. Maybe if the NBA didn't have the defensive 3 second violation which basically prohibits teams from playing good zones that would make sense, but as of now defense back then were more physical play was allowed was tougher.
QUOTE]

LOL Kobe must really think that he has to toot his own horn in order for his legacy to be great. Can't get to the rim lol. LeBron gets to the rim any time he wants to.

[KenneBell]

LOL Kobe must really think that he has to toot his own horn in order for his legacy to be great. Can't get to the rim lol. LeBron gets to the rim any time he wants to.
What kind of stupid ish is this?

LeBron outweighs Kobe by a good 60 pounds and is 7 years younger. I'd hope he could get to the rim better. What's LeBron excuse for not having a jumper? :confusedshrug:

[2LeTTeRS]

What kind of stupid ish is this?

LeBron outweighs Kobe by a good 60 pounds and is 7 years younger. I'd hope he could get to the rim better. What's LeBron excuse for not having a jumper? :confusedshrug:

So what makes it so easy for AI, Derrick Rose, CP3 and D Wade?

[Showtime]

What kind of stupid ish is this?

LeBron outweighs Kobe by a good 60 pounds and is 7 years younger. I'd hope he could get to the rim better. What's LeBron excuse for not having a jumper? :confusedshrug:
Wade isn't bigger than Kobe and he's made a career...and won a ring...off of getting to the basket. Don't act like you have to be a monster to penetrate in today's game.

[Mdog1]

What kind of stupid ish is this?

LeBron outweighs Kobe by a good 60 pounds and is 7 years younger. I'd hope he could get to the rim better. What's LeBron excuse for not having a jumper? :confusedshrug:

Possibly the fact that he has one. Watch a Cavs game. He isn't consistent with it but nobody can hit 100% of their jumpers. His shot has improved this year and that last argument that KB homers had is gone. LeBron can get to the rim any time he wants to why take a shot with a lesser chance of going in when he can dunk from the three point line (pick up the ball take two steps jump dunk).

[KenneBell]

Possibly the fact that he has one. Watch a Cavs game. He isn't consistent with it but nobody can hit 100% of their jumpers. His shot has improved this year and that last argument that KB homers had is gone. LeBron can get to the rim any time he wants to why take a shot with a lesser chance of going in when he can dunk from the three point line (pick up the ball take two steps jump dunk).
No, his jumper is still pretty shaky from what I've seen. I've watched almost all of their games this year. It's not even on Wade's level. His FT's look better this year however.

[JJ81]

Easily Kobe

[TmacsRockets]

Easily Kobe

Easily Bird you mean as he has the finals mvp's and season mvp's.

[LA_Showtime]

Easily Bird you mean as he has the finals mvp's and season mvp's.

As of now Bird's legacy is greater.

But according to your theory. Chauncey Billups is better than Deron Williams, Chris Paul, etc... Kobe is better than T-Mac, LeBron, etc...

Idiot.

[iggy>]

As of now Bird's legacy is greater.

But according to your theory. Chauncey Billups is better than Deron Williams, Chris Paul, etc... Kobe is better than T-Mac, LeBron, etc...

Idiot.
did u just compare larry bird to chauncey billups:confusedshrug:

[TmacsRockets]

As of now Bird's legacy is greater.

But according to your theory. Chauncey Billups is better than Deron Williams, Chris Paul, etc... Kobe is better than T-Mac, LeBron, etc...

Idiot.

Billups isn't a comparable player. You compare guys that are top 10 to one another in the league not guys who may not even be top 30.

[KB42PAH]

Larry bird = MOAT

most overrated all time.

Larry bird = Kieth van Horn+ passing.

[Loki]

Larry bird = MOAT

most overrated all time.

Larry bird = Kieth van Horn+ passing.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you say stuff like that?

[XxNeXuSxX]

Larry bird = MOAT

most overrated all time.

Larry bird = Kieth van Horn+ passing.
*Looks at username*

Looks like nothing has changed on this board, still same old Kobe trolls.

[Diesel J]

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you say stuff like that?

He's a kobe fan:oldlol:

[Fatal9]

even if he does he wont be better the lakers are just to stacked right now w/o kobe that team could still win a championship
:oldlol:

Gasol
Bynum
Radmanovic
Fisher

vs.

McHale
Parish
Johnson
Ainge

People here make it seem like Jordan, Magic and Bird won with scrubs. Kobe finally gets a team that is merely comparable with what they had and people start diminishing Kobe's individual ability.

[KB42PAH]

jordan had best supporting caste of all time

rodman = 19 rpg, best defender for big, all-star
pippen = 2nd best perimeter player in nba, all-star
kerr = best shooter, best % in NBA history
grant = allstar
hodges = 19 straight 3pt in shootin contest one of best shooters ever
cartright, paxson, kukoc

jordan had best supportin caste ever.

pippen/grant/rodman>>>>>>uncoorindated 21 year old bynum, skinny twig gasoft, blazing high lefty lamar scrotum.

[Yossarian22]

Really, who would want to go to a game 7 against Kobe.

The 2005-2006 Phoenix Suns!

[TmacsRockets]

jordan had best supporting caste of all time

rodman = 19 rpg, best defender for big, all-star
pippen = 2nd best perimeter player in nba, all-star
kerr = best shooter, best % in NBA history
grant = allstar
hodges = 19 straight 3pt in shootin contest one of best shooters ever
cartright, paxson, kukoc

jordan had best supportin caste ever.

pippen/grant/rodman>>>>>>uncoorindated 21 year old bynum, skinny twig gasoft, blazing high lefty lamar scrotum.

Actually Kobe had the best cast ever. Shaq (top 5), Karl Malone (top 12), Gary Payton (Top 25). 4 top 25 guys on the same team vs a team with no top 50 players in the league, yet Kobe gets outplayed by Billups in the finals a guy who was not an allstar.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Nash-tastic]

Actually Kobe had the best cast ever. Shaq (top 5), Karl Malone (top 12), Gary Payton (Top 25). 4 top 25 guys on the same team vs a team with no top 50 players in the league, yet Kobe gets outplayed by Billups in the finals a guy who was not an allstar.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Malone and Payton weren't in their prime, they were washed up u dumb ****

[TmacsRockets]

Malone and Payton the year before averaged 20 ppg and 8 rpg or 8 apg. If that is washed up then you need to get a reality check.

They didn't average that on the Lakers because you aren't going to have 4 guys get 20 ppg on a team. Heck you may not even have 3 guys get 20 ppg.

[Scott Pippen]

People here make it seem like Jordan, Magic and Bird won with scrubs. Kobe finally gets a team that is merely comparable with what they had and people start diminishing Kobe's individual ability.
like who? They had good teams. But that does not take away from them as individual. Basketball is team concept game, just like Mr. Bill Walton says. It is not about ranking players based on who can carry the biggest load of crap the farthest like LeBron/Kobe on 2006, McGrady in 2003, and so on.:applause:

[BIZARRO]

jordan had best supporting caste of all time

rodman = 19 rpg, best defender for big, all-star
pippen = 2nd best perimeter player in nba, all-star
kerr = best shooter, best % in NBA history
grant = allstar
hodges = 19 straight 3pt in shootin contest one of best shooters ever
cartright, paxson, kukoc

jordan had best supportin caste ever.

pippen/grant/rodman>>>>>>uncoorindated 21 year old bynum, skinny twig gasoft, blazing high lefty lamar scrotum.


Firstly, Rodman/Grant, Kerr/Hodges etc. all played on different Bulls teams, so your argument makes no sense.

Jordan won his first 3 titles with a young Pippen, young Grant and pretty much mediocre players to borderline crap.
The second Bulls run had a better supporting cast (and worse MJ), but there is no one in their right mind who would take it over the '80's Lakers who had Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Byron Scott, etc.

Lastly, if you meant by "supportin caste" that MJ had the best hereditary system of occupation, endogamy, social culture, social class, and political power, you might be on to something.
Something tells me that by the quality of your posts that you didn't mean that. Just a guess. :D

[BIZARRO]

:oldlol:

Gasol
Bynum
Radmanovic
Fisher

vs.

McHale
Parish
Johnson
Ainge

People here make it seem like Jordan, Magic and Bird won with scrubs. Kobe finally gets a team that is merely comparable with what they had and people start diminishing Kobe's individual ability.

But you're missing the whole point. The league was less watered down back then (which is why Mchale, Parish, DJ, etc. seems so good), so a "comparable" cast as you say, holds more value today.

Comparing casts over different eras for the quality of a player is an inaccurate way. However, comparing casts over different eras to their relative competition for the quality of a player is not.

Hence, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, etc. looks great today, but not so much compared with Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.

The formula to explain would be something like:
Kobe's cast to the median 2008 casts > Bird's cast to the '80's median casts

Another way to put it is Bird couldn't coast and put up 24, 5, and 5 and be on track for 70 wins. Kobe's track is easier.

Easier than Magic's track, easier even moreso than Bird's track, and makes MJ's track from the early '90's look like climbing Mt. Everest. :D

[97 bulls]

Is that why a past-his-prime Bird dropped 38/11/9 on young Pip and the bulls?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAOx36A48wU
in this video you posted i see 10 players on the court and refs. this isnt a 1-1 game.

[97 bulls]

You people are insane if you think Pippen has ANY CHANCE against Bird in a 1-on-1. Bird could always just back off and give Pippen his shaky at best jumper. What can Pippen give Bird? Nothing. Post up? Bird would back Pip down from the top of the key to underneath the basket.

You cats are crazy. Bird was a much better one-on-one player than Pippen.
do you have any vids of pip vs bird 1-1? if not how do you know who would win?

[Showtime]

in this video you posted i see 10 players on the court and refs. this isnt a 1-1 game.http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2386557&postcount=161

Isolation plays are the closest you are going to get to one on one in the NBA.

[97 bulls]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2386557&postcount=161

Isolation plays are the closest you are going to get to one on one in the NBA.
i was more refering to that game and thats not 1-1 you dont know what the circumstances were was he supposed to funnel bird and the big man missed his assignmment? that just an example.

[BIZARRO]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2386557&postcount=161

Isolation plays are the closest you are going to get to one on one in the NBA.


True, but quickness for a player like Pippen is a MUCH more valuable asset when they don't have to worry about any other defenders, help defense, etc.

The more cluttered the court, the more players have to worry about other players (Bird finding the open man for example), the more quickness gets negated. In a one on one game, incredibly athletic players like Pippen gain a distinct advantage.

[97 bulls]

But you're missing the whole point. The league was less watered down back then (which is why Mchale, Parish, DJ, etc. seems so good), so a "comparable" cast as you say, holds more value today.

Comparing casts over different eras for the quality of a player is an inaccurate way. However, comparing casts over different eras to their relative competition for the quality of a player is not.

Hence, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, etc. looks great today, but not so much compared with Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc.

The formula to explain would be something like:
Kobe's cast to the median 2008 casts > Bird's cast to the '80's median casts

Another way to put it is Bird couldn't coast and put up 24, 5, and 5 and be on track for 70 wins. Kobe's track is easier.

Easier than Magic's track, easier even moreso than Bird's track, and makes MJ's track from the early '90's look like climbing Mt. Everest. :D
was the 80s really that inferior that you have to resort to watered down? but i agree with comparing players relative to their competition

[97 bulls]

True, but quickness for a player like Pippen is a MUCH more valuable asset when they don't have to worry about any other defenders, help defense, etc.

The more cluttered the court, the more players have to worry about other players (Bird finding the open man for example), the more quickness gets negated. In a one on one game, incredibly athletic players like Pippen gain a distinct advantage.
beautifully put

[grimreaper1377]

Larry Bird.

[97 bulls]

as far as bird vs kobe i think you cant just look at stats or even accomplishments. bird played in a much faster tempo era. more shots more rebounds more assists. ive also heard that assists were more easily handed out in the 80s.

kobe is playing in a totally different era. if you breathe on a player youll get teed up. not tomention the zone defenses and defensive three second rule. and the flopping.

i really dont see much of a difference and heres why. i dont believe that the talent of the 80s is so vast that kobe in the 80s stats is decreased. in fact, i feel they go up. id say add 3-4 ppg and a couple assts and rebounds. and then kobes stats are the same if not better. likewise if bird playd in this era his stats will decrease not because hes not taolented but because of less opportunity.

but the fact is that both are or were in birds case the best player in the league for about 4 years. and while kobe has 1 mvp to birds 3 i see kobe getting maybe 1 more. which is about the same.

[BIZARRO]

was the 80s really that inferior that you have to resort to watered down? but i agree with comparing players relative to their competition

Thanks for the compliment just above.

As to this quote, I said IMO the better '80's teams were superior, not inferior.

The watered down effect of today comes from expansion, younger players coming in out of high school, college, who don't learn the fundamentals, etc. nearly as well.

Players are definitly atheletically superior today, but IMO due to the factors just stated, the better teams from the '80's were more polished, efficient, and played more "winning" basketball.

Think about the '87 Lakers. You had 4 #1 overall picks, all at or over 6'8, on one team. Three national title winners who LED their teams to titles. All who at one time or another averaged 20 a game in the NBA. 9 MVP's. 3 of the players with Finals MVP's. 3 ADDITIONAL players in double figures on the team. The list could go on and on. That is just insane.
Could never happen today as the talent is spread thinner.

[sick_brah07]

in about 25 years people will be saying jesus man remember that kobe guy that would go ona scoring rampage in the league ....no one could score like him i mean i no lebron james jr is averaging 57 ppg but he jus didnt play againest big men like they had back then the KG'S TIMMYd's shaqs odens dwight howard yao mings ELITE BIG MEN i tell ya

[97 bulls]

Thanks for the compliment just above.

As to this quote, I said IMO the better '80's teams were superior, not inferior.

The watered down effect of today comes from expansion, younger players coming in out of high school, college, who don't learn the fundamentals, etc. nearly as well.

Players are definitly atheletically superior today, but IMO due to the factors just stated, the better teams from the '80's were more polished, efficient, and played more "winning" basketball.

Think about the '87 Lakers. You had 4 #1 overall picks, all at or over 6'8, on one team. Three national title winners who LED their teams to titles. All who at one time or another averaged 20 a game in the NBA. 9 MVP's. 3 of the players with Finals MVP's. 3 ADDITIONAL players in double figures on the team. The list could go on and on. That is just insane.
Could never happen today as the talent is spread thinner.
everything you stated sounds great but the fact is, while the 87 lakers were great and post alot of accolades, they werent all playing at that level in 87.
and out of the top 10 players in the league today at least half come out of high school. and expansion hasnt diluted the league theres plenty of talent to go around.

[Showtime]

True, but quickness for a player like Pippen is a MUCH more valuable asset when they don't have to worry about any other defenders, help defense, etc.

The more cluttered the court, the more players have to worry about other players (Bird finding the open man for example), the more quickness gets negated. In a one on one game, incredibly athletic players like Pippen gain a distinct advantage.
Quickness really doesn't help Pippen stop Bird's jumper. Bird is not only taller, but his release is way over his head. I posted a clip where Bird hit a turn around J by posting up Pip. Even if it was just a 1 on 1 (which is irrelevant to who is the better player), Pippen would have a hard time stopping Bird. Pippen's quickness and hands would help against penetration, but Bird wouldn't rely on penetration to beat him.

[BIZARRO]

everything you stated sounds great but the fact is, while the 87 lakers were great and post alot of accolades, they werent all playing at that level in 87.
and out of the top 10 players in the league today at least half come out of high school. and expansion hasnt diluted the league theres plenty of talent to go around.

As to your first comment, three of the players mentioned were the top 3 Laker players, and two were right in their prime. And the fourth was the sixth man.

As to the second, true, but there are MANY more scraping by at the bottom of rosters and in the D-League, etc.
You surely can't be arguing that out of high school players on average are more equipped to play winning basketball than players with at least 3 years of college experience?

You can't devalue the importance of learning fundamentals in college and how that relates to winning basketball. It has hurt median quality in the NBA. Players today are getting on the job training.

[97 bulls]

Quickness really doesn't help Pippen stop Bird's jumper. Bird is not only taller, but his release is way over his head. I posted a clip where Bird hit a turn around J by posting up Pip. Even if it was just a 1 on 1 (which is irrelevant to who is the better player), Pippen would have a hard time stopping Bird. Pippen's quickness and hands would help against penetration, but Bird wouldn't rely on penetration to beat him.
im not arguing the bird vs pip 1 v 1 cuz its really worthless. but if im playing ball against someone that im faster than and can out jump and quicker how is a jumpshot gonna work? i would just play you close and make you drive.

[BIZARRO]

Quickness really doesn't help Pippen stop Bird's jumper. Bird is not only taller, but his release is way over his head. I posted a clip where Bird hit a turn around J by posting up Pip. Even if it was just a 1 on 1 (which is irrelevant to who is the better player), Pippen would have a hard time stopping Bird. Pippen's quickness and hands would help against penetration, but Bird wouldn't rely on penetration to beat him.

I don't know man. Bird is my 2nd favorite player ever, but it's a tough sell.

If you have ever played a much quicker, more athletic player in one on one you'll know what I mean.

If Bird was on fire, and Pip had one of his days where he was just off (and he had many) I'd take the Legend. But Pip would be just too quick more often than not, and his arms were like an octopus on D.

I think Scottie would wear him out on most days in one on one (as would many athletic swingmen who Bird was far superior to). But we'll agree to disagree.:pimp:

[crisoner]

This thread really should be Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bird

:pimp:

[97 bulls]

As to your first comment, three of the players mentioned were the top 3 Laker players, and two were right in their prime. And the fourth was the sixth man.

As to the second, true, but there are MANY more scraping by at the bottom of rosters and in the D-League, etc.
You surely can't be arguing that out of high school players on average are more equipped to play winning basketball than players with at least 3 years of college experience?

You can't devalue the importance of learning fundamentals in college and how that relates to winning basketball. It has hurt median quality in the NBA. Players today are getting on the job training.
true that players are getting on the job training but they atre better for it. and while there are some out of high school scrubs most become great ball players.

and i agree with your assesment of the rankings of the 87 lakers players. magic and worthy were in their prime. but kareem was at best a solid center by that stage in his careeer.

[chopchop20]

Kobe is by far a more versatile player. More durable, tougher to guard.

It's shameful that these teenagers on this board who only know of Bird from ESPN classic claim that Larry carried the Celts. Dude played with some great players. If he was so "legendary" why did Magic win 5 rings and he only won 3?

Bird's first 9-10 years in the league were tight, but injuries hit him hard the last few years of his career.

[gotbacon23]

Larry bird = MOAT

most overrated all time.

Larry bird = Kieth van Horn+ passing.

this seriously makes you sound like a moron. a 35 year old larry bird with a broken back averaged 20.2 ppg 9.6 rpg 6.8 apg on 47% fg 41% threes 93% free throws whil having a PER of 21.0 in his last year 1991-92 WAYYYY worse then his peak years. van horn has never had a season that good. and its not likle they played decades a part... that was in 1992. so i dont buy this weak era crap...

michael jordan, scottie pippen, david robinson, mitch richmond, hakeem olajuwon, dikembe mutombo (all-star his rookie year 1991-92), john stockton, karl malone, clyde drexler, dennis rodman are examples of players who were near the top of the league in both the time when bird played and when van horn played.

i can't believe i justified that stupid comment with a response.

[fos]

Kobe is by far a more versatile player. More durable, tougher to guard.

It's shameful that these teenagers on this board who only know of Bird from ESPN classic claim that Larry carried the Celts. Dude played with some great players. If he was so "legendary" why did Magic win 5 rings and he only won 3?

Bird's first 9-10 years in the league were tight, but injuries hit him hard the last few years of his career.

So if Larry's team was stacked when he won those championships what was Kobe's? Bryant the more versatile player? Are you serious? Larry Bird could do it all... That's why he had so many triple doubles... Kobe may have an edge in defense but Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, and passer. Could play inside and out. Kobe Bryant has become so overrated as a player it is getting ridiculous. Lebron has been better this year and for their careers. He outscores, out rebounds, out assists, out steals, out blocks and shoots (FG %) better unlike volume scorer Bryant.

The question is who is better Larry Legend or King James?

[BIZARRO]

true that players are getting on the job training but they atre better for it. and while there are some out of high school scrubs most become great ball players.
and i agree with your assesment of the rankings of the 87 lakers players. magic and worthy were in their prime. but kareem was at best a solid center by that stage in his careeer.

Absolutely false.:no:

If you ask almost ANY NBA coach if a player would be better off with 3 years of college ball or coming straight out of high school, they will tell you college.

Jim Boeheim was talkiing about this very thing in an NBA Preview magazine recently (EPSN? Sporting News? I forget which one), and he said that Dwight Howard, for example, would have really benefitted from a year of college more than anyone as they have the time to REALLY teach various skills, drills, etc. in college that they simply don't in the pros.
Tex Winter on Kobe/Jordan: "The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan had played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was better prepared to play within a team concept."
Coach K and many (ALMOST ALL) have said similar things about college experience being very helpful.


And although Kobe, Lebron, and KG have succeeded (andyou could make a case they would be even better i.e. Kobe-better shot slection, Lebron-better shot, KG-better post moves), they are the exceptions to the rule. Most high school players who come out are benchwarmers, role players, or out of the league.

To say "most" become great ball players is an absolutely gross misstatement. :no:


P.S. This is not to say that the % of High School players who are good isn't as high as college players who are good. I mean they are coming out of High School because they have TALENT (and want $$$ quick of course).
It is rather to say that their talents would be better served by a couple years of college teaching.

[Da_Realist]

this seriously makes you sound like a moron. a 35 year old larry bird with a broken back averaged 20.2 ppg 9.6 rpg 6.8 apg on 47% fg 41% threes 93% free throws whil having a PER of 21.0 in his last year 1991-92 WAYYYY worse then his peak years. van horn has never had a season that good. and its not likle they played decades a part... that was in 1992. so i dont buy this weak era crap...

michael jordan, scottie pippen, david robinson, mitch richmond, hakeem olajuwon, dikembe mutombo (all-star his rookie year 1991-92), john stockton, karl malone, clyde drexler, dennis rodman are examples of players who were near the top of the league in both the time when bird played and when van horn played.

i can't believe i justified that stupid comment with a response.

I can't either...but good response.

[TmacsRockets]

im not arguing the bird vs pip 1 v 1 cuz its really worthless. but if im playing ball against someone that im faster than and can out jump and quicker how is a jumpshot gonna work? i would just play you close and make you drive.

Pippen was no where near Bird's level. It is like comparing Zach Randolph in his prime to Tim Duncan.

[LA_Showtime]

Pippen was no where near Bird's level. It is like comparing Zach Randolph in his prime to Tim Duncan.

or T-Mac to Kobe. Just kidding Kobe haters.

[KenneBell]

or T-Mac to Kobe. Just kidding Kobe haters.
:oldlol: :applause:

[chopchop20]

So if Larry's team was stacked when he won those championships what was Kobe's? Bryant the more versatile player? Are you serious? Larry Bird could do it all... That's why he had so many triple doubles... Kobe may have an edge in defense but Bird was a better shooter, rebounder, and passer. Could play inside and out. Kobe Bryant has become so overrated as a player it is getting ridiculous. Lebron has been better this year and for their careers. He outscores, out rebounds, out assists, out steals, out blocks and shoots (FG %) better unlike volume scorer Bryant.

The question is who is better Larry Legend or King James?

Kobe can pass, shoot, rebound, AND handle the rock (in crunch time). Kobe's also a better defender, equally effective as a closer, and the difference in shooting % is the shot selection.

Now this is a legitimate conversation, Bird vs Kobe. But not if you make the wrong argument. Bird had one of the highest basketball IQ's ever, and he was always a great team player. 2 things that aren't often associated with Kobe.

So if you wanna say that, there's no beef there. But to try to say that Bird was a great leader that carried a team of scrubs to 3 NBA championships is absurd.

[TmacsRockets]

or T-Mac to Kobe. Just kidding Kobe haters.

Well when Kobe puts up a 30+ PER he will be in the same league as T-mac.

[KB42PAH]

Well when Kobe puts up a 30+ PER he will be in the same league as T-mac.



http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9029/tmacgarbagedt6.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8592/tmacexposedhz3.jpg
http://www.basketballjohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/mcgrady.png
http://timthorn.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/tracy-mcgrady.jpg

[TmacsRockets]

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9029/tmacgarbagedt6.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8592/tmacexposedhz3.jpg
http://www.basketballjohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/mcgrady.png
http://timthorn.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/tracy-mcgrady.jpg

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores97/97132/97132380.htm




The Lakers had a chance to win it in regulation, but Kobe Bryant, who finished with 11 points, shot an air ball at the buzzer.

Bryant would miss three more shots, including two air balls, in the overtime.



And that was in the physical 90's with the stiffling defense of Jeff Hornecek on him.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LA_Showtime]

Well when Kobe puts up a 30+ PER he will be in the same league as T-mac.

Nope you're wrong! Kobe won MVP, and T-Mac didn't! Don't get angry though, because I'm basing this off of your system.

For anyone who cares, the T-Mac of Orlando was awesome.

[Sir Charles]

Will you kids get over this :confusedshrug: :rolleyes: . Kobe Bryant already is a Top 5-6 SG of All-Time and when his career finishes he will probably end 2-3 but no he was not a better player than Larry Bird, neither will be or has been in his prime (Bryant is in his total prime: age 30). :violin:

Larry Bird is the Most Complete SF or Probably Forward Ever and has very few comparisons in terms of All Around Game, EFF and even PER (which involve physical and athletic qualities that contribute to your impact per minute other than Skills, Fundamentals, Talent etc)

And no Bryant would not beat Bird in a 1 on 1 because in a 1 on 1 game you are also allowed to Post Up, Play in the Paint, Shoot 3s, Shoot Over The Person etc where Bird would kill Bryant:sleeping:

[Mdog1]

Will you kids get over this :confusedshrug: :rolleyes: . Kobe Bryant already is a Top 5-6 SG of All-Time and when his career finishes he will probably end 2-3 but no he was not a better player than Larry Bird, neither will be or has been in his prime (Bryant is in his total prime: age 30). :violin:

Larry Bird is the Most Complete SF or Probably Forward Ever and has very few comparisons in terms of All Around Game, EFF and even PER (which involve physical and athletic qualities that contribute to your impact per minute other than Skills, Fundamentals, Talent etc)

And no Bryant would not beat Bird in a 1 on 1 because in a 1 on 1 game you are also allowed to Post Up, Play in the Paint, Shoot 3s, Shoot Over The Person etc where Bird would kill Bryant:sleeping:

Oh god I agree with you. Seriously it is hard to compare players of different positions, and even harder to compare different eras.

[KB42PAH]

And no Bryant would not beat Bird in a 1 on 1 because in a 1 on 1 game you are also allowed to Post Up, Play in the Paint, Shoot 3s, Shoot Over The Person etc where Bird would kill Bryant[/B]:sleeping:

:roll: :roll: :lol :oldlol:

LMAO!

Kobe would destroy bird 100-0 , I dont' even think Bird would touch the ball.

[Mdog1]

:roll: :roll: :lol :oldlol:

LMAO!

Kobe would destroy bird 100-0 , I dont' even think Bird would touch the ball.

I'm not sure that it would be a blow out either way.

[Sir Charles]

Question

If these guys could not contain Bird even after his 1988-89 back injury season

Old Larry v.s Slow Unskilled Pathetic 6`9 James Worthy

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=worthja01&p2=birdla01

22.5 PPG (46.7% FG), 9.3 RPG; 6.5 APG, 1.8 SPG and (54.5% 3-Point FG)

Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Defensive/Rebounding Machine 6`6 3/4 Dennis Rodman

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=rodmade01

24.7 PPG (48.7% FG), 8 RPG; 6.9 APG, 1 SPG, 1 BPG and (48.7% 3-Point FG)

Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic and Pathetic Defender 6`7 Scottie Pippen

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=birdla01&p2=pippesc01

25.9 PPG (50.3% FG), 8.3 RPG; 6.1 APG, 1 BPG (45% 3-Point FG)

Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic 6`7 Dominique Wilkins

22.4 PPG (50.4% FG), 8 RPG; 6.4 APG, 1.6 SPG

Old Larry Bird`s pathetic stats vs Unathletic 6`9 Shawn Kemp

20.6 PPG (54.5% FG), 10 RPG; 6 APG, 1.6 SPG

Then what makes you think Bryant could?

And I am not including others like Kevin Willis, Antoine Carr, Rick Mahorn, John Salley etc etc of many others that got schooled by Bird not to mention in those stats you see right ther whicn included a 1989 injured and passed his prime Bird thus also not including the before 1986-87 season stats = which was Larry Bird`s Total Prime Best Years of Schooling the Whole NBA so except those Stats before that season from 1979-80 to 1985-86 to go up higher against those playing with Bird in those years aswell :confusedshrug: :violin:

[TmacsRockets]

:roll: :roll: :lol :oldlol:

LMAO!

Kobe would destroy bird 100-0 , I dont' even think Bird would touch the ball.

Billups would torch Kobe as he did in the finals. Or when Pierce on a busted knee outplayed Kobe.

[Loki]

jordan had best supporting caste of all time

rodman = 19 rpg, best defender for big, all-star

Rodman averaged 15.3 rebs with Chicago from '96-'98, not 19 rebs. He also averaged fewer rebs in the playoffs each of those years (13.7 in '96, 8.7 in '97 and 11.8 in '98). Best defender for big? No. Fantastic post defender, though, yes. No impact at all on offense (Phil commented several times on how he was a liability on offense) and provided no sort of shotblocking presence.


pippen = 2nd best perimeter player in nba, all-star

Pippen was only the second best perimeter player in the NBA in 1, maybe 2 of the Bulls' championship years (1993 and 1996). Before that, Drexler, Magic (1991) were better. Guys like KJ/Tim Hardaway/Stockton/Mullin were also on his level up until 1993. After 1996 (and even arguably during 1996), Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway were better players; Payton was arguable in '96 and '97 as well. But yes, Pippen was a great, great player. No argument there.


kerr = best shooter, best % in NBA history

What a joke. :oldlol: Kerr shot 51.5% and 46.4% from behind the shorter 3-pt line in '96 and '97 (on just 2.9 attempts/game, mind you), when many players were having career best years from behind the arc due to the shorter distance. At the normal 3-pt line, Kerr's average percentages were 43-44% on ~2 threes per game throughout his career. Compare that to Sasha Vujacic's 44% on 3.8 attempts/gm or Fisher/Radmanovic's 41% on 3.6 attempts/gm last season. That's not even mentioning guys who were/are clearly better shooters than Kerr, like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Dale Ellis, Kapono, Steven Nash, Dirk etc.

Calling Kerr "the best shooter" is a joke that, much like your "Larry Bird = Keith Van Horn with passing" remarks, exposes you for the uninformed dolt you are. Kerr shot just 32% and 38% from deep in the '96 and '97 playoffs, respectively (at the shorter line); Vujacic and Fisher shot 39% and 44% from deep in last year's playoffs on many more attempts per game than Kerr...and at the longer line. The Lakers as a team (excluding Kobe) are shooting 40+% on threes this year. OMG THEY'RE THE BEST SHOOTERS EVAR !!!!11one :rolleyes:


grant = allstar

Grant averaged 13.4 pts/9.3 rebs/1.2 blk per game in 35 mpg during the first three-peat. Hardly world-beating numbers. For comparison's sake, Bynum averaged 13.1 pts/10.2 rebs/2.1 blks in 29 mpg last year. Per 36 minutes, Grant's numbers were 13.8 pts/9.6 reb/1.2 blk (54% FG), while Bynum's per 36 numbers were 16.4 pts/12.7 reb/2.6 blk (60+% FG).

So...yeah. Grant's one all-star selection in 1994 was one of the weakest picks in history (15 pts/11 reb; there were dozens of guys every year who put up better numbers than that), rivalled only by his teammate BJ Armstrong's selection that same year (a 15 pt/4 ast all-star? :oldlol:) and Jamal Magloire in the early 00's.


hodges = 19 straight 3pt in shootin contest one of best shooters ever
cartright, paxson, kukoc

Hodges shot 38% from deep on 1.6 attempts per game during the first three-peat. There are dozens of shooters today who do better on even more attempts, and at least 3 on the Lakers themselves (Fisher/Vujacic/Radmanovic). You were saying?

Paxson? Great shooter, average defender. Cartwright? He averaged 7 pts/5 reb and an appalling .2 blocks per game for the first three-peat.

In fact, Jordan's starting PF/C for the first three-peat (Grant/Cartwright) averaged 20.9 pts/14.3 reb/1.4 blk/51% FG, and for the second three-peat (Rodman/Longley) they averaged 14.6 pts/20.5 reb/1.4 blk/46% shooting. Compare that to the 2008 Lakers' starting PF/C (Odom/Gasol) averages of 33.0 pts/18.4 reb/2.5 blk/56% FG or the 2009 Lakers' starting PF/C (Gasol/Bynum) projected averages of 32+ pts/21+ reb/5+ blk/55%+ FG (they're at 25.4 pts/19.5 reb/3.9 blk right now, and it'll only increase).

Take a look at the disparity in production and impact there. Size and interior play win basketball games, which is why the only way Kobe will win is with a dominant front line which provides scads of shotblocking (6 bpg). The Lakers easily have the biggest, longest, and most productive front line in the league, which is why they're favorites for the title.


jordan had best supportin caste ever.

Too bad all these players you mention weren't on the team at the same time, and in many cases you're overstating their impact, as noted above.

Nice try, kid. Better luck next time. He had a great team, sure, but your hyperbole is amusing, and won't cut it against any knowledgeable fan. By the way, the word you're looking for is "cast," not "caste."

[Loki]

do you have any vids of pip vs bird 1-1? if not how do you know who would win?

Bird would win, and anyone who watched Bird play and Pippen play can see that. Unless you're a Pippen homer, which you are. Bird was a FAR SUPERIOR one-on-one player. He had far more moves, a far more consistent shot, could create space far better, could read his defender far better, and he was even as quick as Pippen (not as fast, though).


Kobe is by far a more versatile player. More durable, tougher to guard.

Kobe "more versatile" than Bird? :oldlol: Now I've heard it all...


Kobe can pass, shoot, rebound, AND handle the rock (in crunch time).

Too bad he can only do one of those things as well or better than Bird (ball handling). Shooting is an edge to Bird, and rebounding and passing are big edges to Bird.


equally effective as a closer, and the difference in shooting % is the shot selection.

First off, Kobe is not "equally effective as a closer." No way. You'd have to be absolutely BONKERS to take Kobe over the final 8-12 minutes of a close, important game over Larry freaking Bird. Kobe's a great closer, but not on Bird's level -- there's only one, maybe two players who are.

As for your other comment, I have to say that I love how Kobe fans have convinced themselves that the only reason Kobe's FG% is what it is is because of his shot selection. I don't doubt that that's the biggest factor, but it's not the only one. Bird was simply a better shooter than Kobe, flat out.

[HisJoeness]

jordan had best supporting caste of all time

rodman = 19 rpg, best defender for big, all-star


Rodman averaged 15.3 rebs with Chicago from '96-'98, not 19 rebs. He also averaged fewer rebs in the playoffs each of those years (13.7 in '96, 8.7 in '97 and 11.8 in '98). Best defender for big? No. Fantastic post defender, though, yes. No impact at all on offense (Phil commented several times on how he was a liability on offense) and provided no sort of shotblocking presence.


pippen = 2nd best perimeter player in nba, all-star

Pippen was only the second best perimeter player in the NBA in 1, maybe 2 of the Bulls' championship years (1993 and 1996). Before that, Drexler, Magic (1991) were better. Guys like KJ/Tim Hardaway/Stockton/Mullin were also on his level up until 1993. After 1996 (and even arguably during 1996), Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway were better players; Payton was arguable in '96 and '97 as well. But yes, Pippen was a great, great player. No argument there.


kerr = best shooter, best % in NBA history

What a joke. :oldlol: Kerr shot 51.5% and 46.4% from behind the shorter 3-pt line in '96 and '97 (on just 2.9 attempts/game, mind you), when many players were having career best years from behind the arc due to the shorter distance. At the normal 3-pt line, Kerr's average percentages were 43-44% on ~2 threes per game throughout his career. Compare that to Sasha Vujacic's 44% on 3.8 attempts/gm or Fisher/Radmanovic's 41% on 3.6 attempts/gm last season. That's not even mentioning guys who were/are clearly better shooters than Kerr, like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Dale Ellis, Kapono, Steven Nash, Dirk etc.

Calling Kerr "the best shooter" is a joke that, much like your "Larry Bird = Keith Van Horn with passing" remarks, exposes you for the uninformed dolt you are. Kerr shot just 32% and 38% from deep in the '96 and '97 playoffs, respectively (at the shorter line); Vujacic and Fisher shot 39% and 44% from deep in last year's playoffs on many more attempts per game than Kerr...and at the longer line. The Lakers as a team (excluding Kobe) are shooting 40+% on threes this year. OMG THEY'RE THE BEST SHOOTERS EVAR !!!!11one :rolleyes:


grant = allstar

Grant averaged 13.4 pts/9.3 rebs/1.2 blk per game in 35 mpg during the first three-peat. Hardly world-beating numbers. For comparison's sake, Bynum averaged 13.1 pts/10.2 rebs/2.1 blks in 29 mpg last year. Per 36 minutes, Grant's numbers were 13.8 pts/9.6 reb/1.2 blk (54% FG), while Bynum's per 36 numbers were 16.4 pts/12.7 reb/2.6 blk (60+% FG).

So...yeah. Grant's one all-star selection in 1994 was one of the weakest picks in history (15 pts/11 reb; there were dozens of guys every year who put up better numbers than that), rivalled only by his teammate BJ Armstrong's selection that same year (a 15 pt/4 ast all-star? :oldlol:) and Jamal Magloire in the early 00's.


hodges = 19 straight 3pt in shootin contest one of best shooters ever
cartright, paxson, kukoc

Hodges shot 38% from deep on 1.6 attempts per game during the first three-peat. There are dozens of shooters today who do better on even more attempts, and at least 3 on the Lakers themselves (Fisher/Vujacic/Radmanovic). You were saying?

Paxson? Great shooter, average defender. Cartwright? He averaged 7 pts/5 reb and an appalling .2 blocks per game for the first three-peat.

In fact, Jordan's starting PF/C for the first three-peat (Grant/Cartwright) averaged 20.9 pts/14.3 reb/1.4 blk/51% FG, and for the second three-peat (Rodman/Longley) they averaged 14.6 pts/20.5 reb/1.4 blk/46% shooting. Compare that to the 2008 Lakers' starting PF/C (Odom/Gasol) averages of 33.0 pts/18.4 reb/2.5 blk/56% FG or the 2009 Lakers' starting PF/C (Gasol/Bynum) projected averages of 32+ pts/21+ reb/5+ blk/55%+ FG (they're at 25.4 pts/19.5 reb/3.9 blk right now, and it'll only increase).

Take a look at the disparity in production and impact there. Size and interior play win basketball games, which is why the only way Kobe will win is with a dominant front line which provides scads of shotblocking (6 bpg). The Lakers easily have the biggest, longest, and most productive front line in the league, which is why they're favorites for the title.


jordan had best supportin caste ever.

Too bad all these players you mention weren't on the team at the same time, and in many cases you're overstating their impact, as noted above.

Nice try, kid. Better luck next time. He had a great team, sure, but your hyperbole is amusing, and won't cut it against any knowledgeable fan. By the way, the word you're looking for is "cast," not "caste."

KB42PAH has just been ethered.

[eliteballer]

Rodman averaged 15.3 rebs with Chicago from '96-'98, not 19 rebs. He also averaged fewer rebs in the playoffs each of those years (13.7 in '96, 8.7 in '97 and 11.8 in '98). Best defender for big? No. Fantastic post defender, though, yes. No impact at all on offense (Phil commented several times on how he was a liability on offense) and provided no sort of shotblocking presence.

Rodman was the best rebounder in the league, and one of the top 10 defenders in the league as well. He might have been a liability in terms of SCORING, but he was a very smart player who made timely passes and screens. Not to mention offensive rebounding.




Pippen was only the second best perimeter player in the NBA in 1, maybe 2 of the Bulls' championship years (1993 and 1996). Before that, Drexler, Magic (1991) were better. Guys like KJ/Tim Hardaway/Stockton/Mullin were also on his level up until 1993. After 1996 (and even arguably during 1996), Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway were better players; Payton was arguable in '96 and '97 as well. But yes, Pippen was a great, great player. No argument there.

Pippen was a top 5 perimeter player in nearly all of the title years



What a joke. :oldlol: Kerr shot 51.5% and 46.4% from behind the shorter 3-pt line in '96 and '97 (on just 2.9 attempts/game, mind you), when many players were having career best years from behind the arc due to the shorter distance. At the normal 3-pt line, Kerr's average percentages were 43-44% on ~2 threes per game throughout his career. Compare that to Sasha Vujacic's 44% on 3.8 attempts/gm or Fisher/Radmanovic's 41% on 3.6 attempts/gm last season. That's not even mentioning guys who were/are clearly better shooters than Kerr, like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Dale Ellis, Kapono, Steven Nash, Dirk etc.

Calling Kerr "the best shooter" is a joke that, much like your "Larry Bird = Keith Van Horn with passing" remarks, exposes you for the uninformed dolt you are. Kerr shot just 32% and 38% from deep in the '96 and '97 playoffs, respectively (at the shorter line); Vujacic and Fisher shot 39% and 44% from deep in last year's playoffs on many more attempts per game than Kerr...and at the longer line. The Lakers as a team (excluding Kobe) are shooting 40+% on threes this year. OMG THEY'RE THE BEST SHOOTERS EVAR !!!!11one :rolleyes:

Kerr is or at least was the ALL-TIME LEADER IN 3 POINT PERCENTAGE. Ya...but he's not a good shooter:rolleyes:





So...yeah. Grant's one all-star selection in 1994 was one of the weakest picks in history (15 pts/11 reb; there were dozens of guys every year who put up better numbers than that), rivalled only by his teammate BJ Armstrong's selection that same year (a 15 pt/4 ast all-star? :oldlol:) and Jamal Magloire in the early 00's.

Huh?

90: AC Green 12.9 ppg 8.7 rpg
91: Alvin Robertson 13 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.5 apg duckworth 15.8 ppg 6.6 rpg 1.1 apg
92-95: Majerle
92: Thorpe 17 ppg 10 rpg
93: Elliot 17.3 ppg 4.6 rpg 3.8 apg
94: Oakley 11 ppg 11 rpg
95: Tyrone Hill 13.8 ppg 10.9 rpg
97: Dumars 14.7 ppg 2.4 rpg 4.0 apg Garnett 17 ppg 8 rpg eddie jones 17 ppg 4 rpg 3 apg
98: Jayson Williams 13 ppg 13 rpg Eddie Jones 16.9 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
00: Dale Davis 10 ppg 10 rpg
01: Ratliff 12 ppg 8 rpg Divac 12 ppg 8 rpg
02: Szczerbiak 18 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Brad Miller 03, 04: 13 ppg 8 rpg, 14 ppg 10 rpg
Illgauskus 03, 05: 17 ppg, 8 rpg ,17 ppg 9rpg
04: Kirilenko 16 ppg 8 rpg ,Magloirre
05: Hill, 19 ppg 4 rpg 3 apg
07: Okur 17 ppg 7 rpg Josh Howard 17 ppg 6 rpg
00, 06, 08, Rasheed: 16 ppg 7 rpg, 16 ppg 6 rpg, 12 ppg, 6 rpg

Just skimming through the last 18 years alone:rolleyes:

[Loki]

I actually said to myself that eliteballer would be rushing in any second now after I make my post. How predictable. :oldlol:


Rodman was the best rebounder in the league, and one of the top 10 defenders in the league as well. He might have been a liability in terms of SCORING, but he was a very smart player who made timely passes and screens. Not to mention offensive rebounding.

Never said otherwise. But nothing I posted was factually inaccurate. Jackson has noted that it was difficult to basically play 5-on-4 on offense many times due to Rodman's limited offensive game. Jordan said the same thing in an interview once.


Pippen was a top 5 perimeter player in nearly all of the title years

And did I say that he wasn't? He said that Pippen was the "second best perimeter player," not top 5. Pippen was a top 5 perimeter player (not to be confused with top 5 player, since many of the league's best players in the early-mid 90's were PF/C's) for at least 5 out of the 6 championship years. He was second best in one, maybe two seasons.

Learn how to read. Had he made the statement you made, I wouldn't (and couldn't) have said anything.


Kerr is or at least was the ALL-TIME LEADER IN 3 POINT PERCENTAGE. Ya...but he's not a good shooter:rolleyes:

Another example of your lack of reading comprehension. KB42PAH called him "the best shooter." Not "a great shooter" (of which there are dozens in the league), but "the best shooter." I showed how tenuous this supposition was. Unless you'd care to tell me how Kerr's average 43-44% from the normal 3-pt line on ~2 attempts per game is better than any number of players who shot as well or better on more attempts per game, both back then and now.


Huh?

90: AC Green 12.9 ppg 8.7 rpg
91: Alvin Robertson 13 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.5 apg duckworth 15.8 ppg 6.6 rpg 1.1 apg
92-95: Majerle
92: Thorpe 17 ppg 10 rpg
93: Elliot 17.3 ppg 4.6 rpg 3.8 apg
94: Oakley 11 ppg 11 rpg
95: Tyrone Hill 13.8 ppg 10.9 rpg
97: Dumars 14.7 ppg 2.4 rpg 4.0 apg Garnett 17 ppg 8 rpg eddie jones 17 ppg 4 rpg 3 apg
98: Jayson Williams 13 ppg 13 rpg Eddie Jones 16.9 ppg 3 rpg 3 apg
00: Dale Davis 10 ppg 10 rpg
01: Ratliff 12 ppg 8 rpg Divac 12 ppg 8 rpg
02: Szczerbiak 18 ppg 5 rpg 3 apg
Brad Miller 03, 04: 13 ppg 8 rpg, 14 ppg 10 rpg
Illgauskus 03, 05: 17 ppg, 8 rpg ,17 ppg 9rpg
04: Kirilenko 16 ppg 8 rpg ,Magloirre
05: Hill, 19 ppg 4 rpg 3 apg
07: Okur 17 ppg 7 rpg Josh Howard 17 ppg 6 rpg
00, 06, 08, Rasheed: 16 ppg 7 rpg, 16 ppg 6 rpg, 12 ppg, 6 rpg

Just skimming through the last 18 years alone:rolleyes:

A few of these players (bolded above) were better selections than Grant; others are arguable as well. Others, like Hill in '05, were selected for sentimental reasons. I misspoke when I said "rivaled only by", but that doesn't change the fact that Grant's lone all-star selection was very, very weak. He was a fringe all-star selection in the same manner that many of these players above were, except for the fact that, in at least many of the above cases, these players had actually demonstrated in their careers that they could play better than they did during their selction years (e.g. Hill, Sheed, Dumars, Oakley, Robertson).

Ultimately though, I don't give a sh!t about this point, because it doesn't mean much. Grant was a 13.4/9.3 reb player for the first three-peat, and you can find 5-10 guys every year who can give you that or better.

[Da_Realist]

KB42PAH has just been ethered.

:oldlol: I'm surprised Loki put that much time into his response. It's obvious that KB4blahblah is

a) ignorant and myopic

and

b) just saying things to get people riled up.

Just ignore him.

(Although I enjoyed reading that Loki post :oldlol: )

[AirGauge23]

It's obvious that KB42PAH is

Vanessa Bryant

[Da_Realist]

Vanessa Bryant

REPPED! :roll:

[HisJoeness]

Vanessa Bryant

ZING!!!!!