The Unathletic 70's and 80`s Player, Julius Erving

[Sir Charles]

http://i29.tinypic.com/2152pt.jpg

:rolleyes: :bowdown:

The rims were only 8 feet tall back then.

[Scott Pippen]

[QUOTE=

[Godfather]

[quote=

[Scott Pippen]

Dr. J made the rim look like it was 8 feet tall. :applause:
:applause:

[Sir Charles]

[QUOTE=

[hito da god]

dr. j trained with my sensei for a while :applause:

he said dr. j was the most nimble student he ever had.

[Sir Charles]

Dr is so Unathletic compared to al 6`6ers of today indeed and Larry Bird couldn`t do sh-it on the Taller, More Athletic and Stronger Players of today: All of them are Better Defenders, More Athletic, Taller and Stronger than Horace Grant, AC. Green, Antoine Carr, Kevin Willis, Buck Williams, Dennis Rodman, John Salley, Rick Mahorn, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Scottie Pippen, the Doctor, Clydre Drexler etc

:roll:

[dnyk1337]

Why do you think he has those knee braces? He was like Arvydas Sabonis athletically... He just happened to play with players that were sooo unathletic, they made him seem like Dominique Wilkins. Don't forget the rim was 7.5 feet. 8 feet is a myth.

[Sir Charles]

The unathletic and weak 7`2 / 265 lbs Center Artis Gilmore

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/17/20038946_9807edd74a.jpg

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/editorial/images/jim_bot.jpg

[Godfather]

The unathletic and weak 7`2 / 265 lbs Center Artis Gilmore

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/17/20038946_9807edd74a.jpg

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/editorial/images/jim_bot.jpg
Howard is stronger and has equal if not higher hops. Not to mention Shaq in 00's was the most powerful, athletic, big man of all time.

No I don't want to pick a fight.

[L.Kizzle]

The unathletic and weak 7`2 / 265 lbs Center Artis Gilmore

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/17/20038946_9807edd74a.jpg

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/editorial/images/jim_bot.jpg
The White Howard is this era's Artis Gilmore.

[plowking]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/js6684/LBJ-Dunk-vs-Bucks.gif

[Sir Charles]

Howard is stronger and has equal if not higher hops. Not to mention Shaq in 00's was the most powerful, athletic, big man of all time.

No I don't want to pick a fight.

Howard is Strong but not Stronger than Artis and Shaq is but Wilt Chamberlain is Stronger than Howard too not to mention check out Gilmore`s and Chamberlains Winspan,

Gilmore`s FG%Career is insane at over 18 PPG in only 21.4 MPG

18.8 PPG on 12.2 FGA PG and 58.2% FG
17.7 PPG on 11.9 FGA PG and 56.1% FG (Play-Offs)

*Not to Mention his RPG and BPG Avgs....

In How Many Years of play? 19!

:bowdown:

[Scott Pippen]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/js6684/LBJ-Dunk-vs-Bucks.gif
very impressive!:bowdown:

but Pippen could also dunk from FT line. Same with Eddie Jones, MJ, Dr. J, VC, Mike Conley Sr. and more:applause:

[Showtime]

Howard is Strong but not Stronger than Artis and Shaq is but Wilt Chamberlain is Stronger than Howard too not to mention check out Gilmore`s and Chamberlains Winspan,

Gilmore`s FG% is insane :bowdown:
Gilmore dominated the ABA in his prime.

[juju151111]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/js6684/LBJ-Dunk-vs-Bucks.gif
watch #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvjJA93Xy9Y Glyde

[plowking]

Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.

Sir Charles, you even said it in the other thread, although due to your lack of awareness, you probably didn't realize. You said players before were just stronger, but players today are stronger because of their diet and training regimes. Well guess what? Stronger is stronger whichever way you want to look at it.

[Sir Charles]

6`4 5/8 (1,95 mt) + 284-252 lbs

http://api.ning.com/files/jGTsl9YIheE1xMxd73SsqQCPnr5CuFS2Q8E1084juoI_/charlesbarkley1991.jpg

What below 6`5 player is as Strong, Potent and Fast at that Weight as Barkley today?

[Scott Pippen]

Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.
there are always exceptions. And Dr.J is one of them.:applause:

[Sir Charles]

Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.

Sir Charles, you even said it in the other thread, although due to your lack of awareness, you probably didn't realize. You said players before were just stronger, but players today are stronger because of their diet and training regimes. Well guess what? Stronger is stronger whichever way you want to look at it.

Name me a Powerforward Quicker and as Potent as Karl Malone on a Full Court Sprint for 40 minutes of play?

Name me a Faster more Potent Powerforward While Dribbling than Charles Barkley?

Name a More Agil More Athletic, Better Ball Handler and Leaping 7`4 PF than Ralph Sampson?

Name me a Quicker 1 on 1 Step SF/PF than James Worthy?

[juju151111]

Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.

Sir Charles, you even said it in the other thread, although due to your lack of awareness, you probably didn't realize. You said players before were just stronger, but players today are stronger because of their diet and training regimes. Well guess what? Stronger is stronger whichever way you want to look at it.
LOL I take MJ in 92 with 92 diet and training.Still rape this league

[plowking]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/tailgate/large_lebron0601kuntz.jpg

[juju151111]

Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.

Sir Charles, you even said it in the other thread, although due to your lack of awareness, you probably didn't realize. You said players before were just stronger, but players today are stronger because of their diet and training regimes. Well guess what? Stronger is stronger whichever way you want to look at it.
So why could Dr.J and Glyde and MJ do wat LJ does then.I don't get it.80s lack the the the diet.GTFO

[juju151111]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/tailgate/large_lebron0601kuntz.jpg
hmm i can just post a Glyde pic of him above the rim.We posting vids and pics back and forth doesn't prove much actually.

[Sir Charles]

6`10 PF Larry Nance

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=RMlU8ICH6lU

[plowking]

Name me a Powerforward Quicker and as Potent as Karl Malone on a Full Court Sprint for 40 minutes of play?

Name me a Faster more Potent Powerforward While Dribbling than Charles Barkley?

Name a More Agil More Athletic, Better Ball Handler and Leaping 7`4 PF than Ralph Sampson?

Name me a Quicker 1 on 1 Step SF/PF than James Worthy?

You learnt about Ralph Sampsons and you can't stop posting about him.

Name me someone built like Howard with his hops and strength.

Name me someone as quick, strong, leaping ability, all round game like Lebron.

Name me someone that can jump as high as Vince Carter and has better body control in the air.

Name me someone that can jump a foot back from the free throw line and dunk it like James White.

Oh as for the first step. Look at Carmelo. He has one of the best first steps I've ever seen.

Power Foward quicker then Malone? :oldlol: I can name plenty.

[plowking]

hmm i can just post a Glyde pic of him above the rim.We posting vids and pics back and forth doesn't prove much actually.

We are waiting... Post it.

[plowking]

LOL I take MJ in 92 with 92 diet and training.Still rape this league

There are exceptions. Though there are more athletically gifted athletes now then there were back then.

[juju151111]

There are exceptions. Though there are more athletically gifted athletes now then there were back then.
How do u post pics.I just can post the link?

[Scott Pippen]

You learnt about Ralph Sampsons and you can't stop posting about him.

Name me someone built like Howard with his hops and strength.

Prime Shaquille & Wilt.. two obvious ones. I believe there is more

Name me someone as quick, strong, leaping ability, all round game like Lebron.

LBJ is best combination of size, strength, and speed I have seen in NBA


Name me someone that can jump as high as Vince Carter and has better body control in the air.

young MJ (not as good dunker) jumping is debateable but body control is not

Name me someone that can jump a foot back from the free throw line and dunk it like James White.

Mike Conley Sr.


:applause:

[plowking]

:applause:

Prime Shaq is very much apart of this era. He is part of the 00's as that is when he started to dominate. Once again, Wilt an exception and in a time way back when. Not in the 80's specifically when Sir Charles is leading his investigation from.

Vince Carter has the best body controll in the air I have ever seen.

Mike Conely Sr? Video please. I've seen the start of it, but I didn't get to see the full dunk, they simply cut to someone's reaction as he is dunking it. Furthermore can he windmill it, 2 hand, between the legs from the free throw line?

[Sir Charles]

You learnt about Ralph Sampsons and you can't stop posting about him.

I`ve know about Ralph Sampson since i was around 15 and you still havent named a Faster, More Agil, Leaping and Ballhandling 7`4er than Sampson

Name me someone built like Howard with his hops and strength.

Wilt was Stronger and Could Leap More and had a Superior Winspam.
Shaq is from 92 draft (close to the 80s than today`s players) and 10 Times Stronger than Howard and So is Barkley on the low post but also 10 times faster

Name me someone as quick, strong, leaping ability, all round game like Lebron.

Barkley is Stronger and Faster and played PF at 6`4 5/8 that is more incredible than a 6`7/6`8 245- lbs SF that can leap and has great ball handling skills. I`d take Prime 93 draft Grant Hill skill wise more than Lebron on the "Floor Game".

Name me someone that can jump as high as Vince Carter and has better body control in the air.

80s Spud Webb...

Name me someone that can jump a foot back from the free throw line and dunk it like James White.

Ill name you players that can Jump from the Free Throw line BUT....TAN TAN TANAAAAAA..

CAN ALSO PLAY THE GAME
HAVE FUNDAMENTALS
AND DOMINATE THE GAME

Dr J, Pippen, Erving, Drexler and even Kemp (lacked fundamentals but at 6`10 very athletic indeed)

Other fast 6`10er that Could Play and Dunk Nice: Tom Chambers.

Oh as for the first step. Look at Carmelo. He has one of the best first steps I've ever seen.

No 6`9er is as Quick as James Worthy on the 1st Step Ever

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkE2frHbG4&feature=related

Power Foward quicker then Malone? :oldlol: I can name plenty

Faster i ment. Fast + As Strong (Arms Too) Full Court Fast Paced Game for 40 of play...

[juju151111]

Prime Shaq is very much apart of this era. He is part of the 00's as that is when he started to dominate. Once again, Wilt an exception and in a time way back when. Not in the 80's specifically when Sir Charles is leading his investigation from.

Vince Carter has the best body controll in the air I have ever seen.

Mike Conely Sr? Video please. I've seen the start of it, but I didn't get to see the full dunk, they simply cut to someone's reaction as he is dunking it. Furthermore can he windmill it, 2 hand, between the legs from the free throw line?
Prime shaq is a part of 90s too.

[plowking]

You learnt about Ralph Sampsons and you can't stop posting about him.

I`ve know about Ralph Sampson since i was around 15 and you still havent named a Faster, More Agil, Leaping and Ballhandling 7`4er than Sampson

Name me someone built like Howard with his hops and strength.

Wilt was Stronger and Could Leap More and had a Superior Winspam.
Shaq is from 92 draft (close to the 80s than today`s players) and 10 Times Stronger than Howard and So is Barkley on the low post but also 10 times faster

Name me someone as quick, strong, leaping ability, all round game like Lebron.

Barkley is Stronger and Faster and played PF at 6`4 5/8 that is more incredible than a 6`7/6`8 245- lbs SF that can leap and has great ball handling skills. I`d take Prime 93 draft Grant Hill skill wise more than Lebron on the "Floor Game".

Name me someone that can jump as high as Vince Carter and has better body control in the air.

80s Spud Webb...

Name me someone that can jump a foot back from the free throw line and dunk it like James White.

Ill name you players that can Jump from the Free Throw line BUT....TAN TAN TANAAAAAA..

CAN ALSO PLAY THE GAME
HAVE FUNDAMENTALS
AND DOMINATE THE GAME

Dr J, Pippen, Erving, Drexler and even Kemp (lacked fundamentals but at 6`10 very athletic indeed)

Other fast 6`10er that Could Play and Dunk Nice: Tom Chambers.

Oh as for the first step. Look at Carmelo. He has one of the best first steps I've ever seen.

No 6`9er is as Quick as James Worthy on the 1st Step Ever

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkE2frHbG4&feature=related

Power Foward quicker then Malone? :oldlol: I can name plenty

Faster i ment. Fast + As Strong (Arms Too) Full Court Fast Paced Game for 40 of play...


See this is why you can't be pleased. Because if the argument is going against you, you ask for different criteria. First its about being the best athlete and then its about having fundamentals while being the best athlete. What the hell do you want? Stick to a criteria.

Spud Webb does not have better body controll or jump on him then Vince. I can name you Nate Robinson who is better then Spud in that case.

Furthermore you are using players from the 60's now like Wilt? 60's were more athletic then 70's, 80's and 90's as well then.

Whatever Sir Charles. I'm sick of debating this. You are wrong, and its fact. Look at mankind, we progress, not regress. Humans become more and more adapt. Quicker, stronger, faster, better.

Why do you think every track, swimming, speed event all get their records broken as time goes on? Because humans are more adapt, have better awareness, are stronger, quicker, and getting better at nearly everything.

Basketball is not going to be the only sport where there is a regress in athletes. Open up your eyes, get of Barkley's cok and all the other players before and recognize that players are progressing.

[Godfather]

You learnt about Ralph Sampsons and you can't stop posting about him.

I`ve know about Ralph Sampson since i was around 15 and you still havent named a Faster, More Agil, Leaping and Ballhandling 7`4er than Sampson

Name me someone built like Howard with his hops and strength.

Wilt was Stronger and Could Leap More and had a Superior Winspam.
Shaq is from 92 draft (close to the 80s than today`s players) and 10 Times Stronger than Howard and So is Barkley on the low post but also 10 times faster

Name me someone as quick, strong, leaping ability, all round game like Lebron.

Barkley is Stronger and Faster and played PF at 6`4 5/8 that is more incredible than a 6`7/6`8 245- lbs SF that can leap and has great ball handling skills. I`d take Prime 93 draft Grant Hill skill wise more than Lebron on the "Floor Game".

Name me someone that can jump as high as Vince Carter and has better body control in the air.

80s Spud Webb...

Name me someone that can jump a foot back from the free throw line and dunk it like James White.

Ill name you players that can Jump from the Free Throw line BUT....TAN TAN TANAAAAAA..

CAN ALSO PLAY THE GAME
HAVE FUNDAMENTALS
AND DOMINATE THE GAME

Dr J, Pippen, Erving, Drexler and even Kemp (lacked fundamentals but at 6`10 very athletic indeed)

Other fast 6`10er that Could Play and Dunk Nice: Tom Chambers.

Oh as for the first step. Look at Carmelo. He has one of the best first steps I've ever seen.

No 6`9er is as Quick as James Worthy on the 1st Step Ever

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkE2frHbG4&feature=related

Power Foward quicker then Malone? :oldlol: I can name plenty

Faster i ment. Fast + As Strong (Arms Too) Full Court Fast Paced Game for 40 of play...

1. Wilt Chamberlain may have been stronger (very subjective), but there is no way in hell you can say he is a better leaper.

2. Barkley is neither faster nor stronger than LeBron. LeBron is easily one of the if not the strongest players in today's NBA and only a select group of players are faster than him.

3. Spud Webb does not have better body control than VC. The man only had two different dunks.

4. LeBron James has a quicker first step than Worthy.

5. Amare is better fastbreak PF than Malone.

[Showtime]

Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.
There are two things I have to say on this:

1. It's false.

2. Even if the physical aspects were true, those things don't necessarily make better ball players.

Let me address this one at a time. First, players in the 70's and 80's were not inferior athletically. This is a misconception a lot of people are getting nowadays. The things that are different today that make it seem that way are things like the advancement in treatments and training, as well as economics and the expansion of the game.

Treatments can help a player recover from injury quicker, and some surgery techniques can keep a player's career going when it would have ended in previous eras, etc. The climate of today's game makes players reach their physical peak easier and keep it there, whereas players from the previous eras broke down earlier.

Also, players in the 50's and 60's didn't make a ton of money. Some players actually had to have regular jobs in the offseasons. Today's athletes can make their living off the game, and can dedicate a lot more of their time in training and developing themselves. That wasn't the case early on, and there was also racial discrimination where the best black athletes didn't necessarily get a lot of playing time on the court. Not to mention that the game wasn't as popular as it is now, and there is a more vast talent pool in the US, as well as internationally.

Just for example, Julius Erving, George Gervin, Connie Hawkins, David Thompson, Ralph Sampson, Hakeem, Spud Webb, Darrell Griffith, Clyde Drexler, Kareem, Gilmore, Wilkins, Kemp, etc were amazing athletes.

My second point on this is that even if that assumption about the physical superiority were true, it doesn't mean that those aspects make a better ball player. Players have shown that intelligence and skills can compensate for raw athletic talent. That's why Stromile Swift and JR Smith aren't top players in the game, even though they are some of the top athletes in the league. That's why guys like McHale, Hornacek, Stockton, Price, Divac, Sabonis, etc were effective players against others who might have been physically superior.

And as far as your skills part, that's totally false. Players today would get called for a travel or carrying the ball almost every time down the court if they tried playing in the older leagues. The art of shooting the ball has been lost, unless it's from beyond the 3 point line. Players don't execute fundamental plays, like boxing out or setting screens correctly. Many players that have gotten by on their physical superiority in high school and college never learn the finer points of the game. The very fact that centers can't even learn a simple hook shot still amazes me.


Sir Charles, you even said it in the other thread, although due to your lack of awareness, you probably didn't realize. You said players before were just stronger, but players today are stronger because of their diet and training regimes. Well guess what? Stronger is stronger whichever way you want to look at it.
Do you really think guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Kevin Willis, Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Karl Malone, Willis Reed, Mel Daniels, etc were weak compared to modern centers like Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace, Yao Ming, Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum? Do you really think that Kobe or Wade's strength when they drive to the basket is superior to Bernard King or Adrian Dantley? Top to bottom, if you look at the league today, rosters aren't filled with stronger players. And the game has changed to where strength doesn't mean what it once did.

[juju151111]

See this is why you can't be pleased. Because if the argument is going against you, you ask for different criteria. First its about being the best athlete and then its about having fundamentals while being the best athlete. What the hell do you want? Stick to a criteria.

Spud Webb does not have better body controll or jump on him then Vince. I can name you Nate Robinson who is better then Spud in that case.

Furthermore you are using players from the 60's now like Wilt? 60's were more athletic then 70's, 80's and 90's as well then.

Whatever Sir Charles. I'm sick of debating this. You are wrong, and its fact. Look at mankind, we progress, not regress. Humans become more and more adapt. Quicker, stronger, faster, better.

Why do you think every track, swimming, speed event all get their records broken as time goes on? Because humans are more adapt, have better awareness, are stronger, quicker, and getting better at nearly everything.

Basketball is not going to be the only sport where there is a regress in athletes. Open up your eyes, get of Barkley's cok and all the other players before and recognize that players are progressing.
How do u post pics and watch Number 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyUf-9ruJi8 head above rim.(He shorter then LJ too) Pippen also has dunks with his head above rim.

[plowking]

Why are records being broken constantly? Why are the records set back in 1960's in all sports still not standing if they were better athletes?

So basketball is the only sport where the game has regressed. Ok I believe you, how was I so foolish...

[Godfather]

How do u post pics and watch Number 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyUf-9ruJi8 head above rim.(He shorter then LJ too) Pippen also has dunks with his head above rim.

His head is never above the rim on his 4th dunk over Bird...

[juju151111]

His head is never above the rim on his 4th dunk over Bird...
Yes it is.

[plowking]

There are two things I have to say on this:

1. It's false.

2. Even if the physical aspects were true, those things don't necessarily make better ball players.

Let me address this one at a time. First, players in the 70's and 80's were not inferior athletically. This is a misconception a lot of people are getting nowadays. The things that are different today that make it seem that way are things like the advancement in treatments and training, as well as economics and the expansion of the game.

Treatments can help a player recover from injury quicker, and some surgery techniques can keep a player's career going when it would have ended in previous eras, etc. The climate of today's game makes players reach their physical peak easier and keep it there, whereas players from the previous eras broke down earlier.

Also, players in the 50's and 60's didn't make a ton of money. Some players actually had to have regular jobs in the offseasons. Today's athletes can make their living off the game, and can dedicate a lot more of their time in training and developing themselves. That wasn't the case early on, and there was also racial discrimination where the best black athletes didn't necessarily get a lot of playing time on the court. Not to mention that the game wasn't as popular as it is now, and there is a more vast talent pool in the US, as well as internationally.

Just for example, Julius Erving, George Gervin, Connie Hawkins, David Thompson, Ralph Sampson, Hakeem, Spud Webb, Darrell Griffith, Clyde Drexler, Kareem, Gilmore, Wilkins, Kemp, etc were amazing athletes.

My second point on this is that even if that assumption were true, it doesn't mean that those aspects make a better ball player. Players have shown that intelligence and skills can compensate for raw athletic talent. That's why Stromile Swift and JR Smith aren't top players in the game, even though they are some of the top athletes in the league. That's why guys like McHale, Hornacek, Stockton, Price, Divac, Sabonis, etc were effective players against others who might have been physically superior.

And as far as your skills part, that's totally false. Players today would get called for a travel or carrying the ball almost every time down the court. The art of shooting the ball has been lost, unless it's from beyond the 3 point line. Players don't execute fundamental plays, like boxing out or setting screens correctly. Many players that have gotten by on their physical superiority in high school and college never learn the finer points of the game.


Do you really think guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Kevin Willis, Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Karl Malone, Willis Reed, Mel Daniels, etc were weak compared to modern centers like Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace, Yao Ming, Greg Oden, and Andrew Bynum? Do you really think that Kobe or Wade's strength when they drive to the basket is superior to Bernard King or Adrian Dantley? Top to bottom, if you look at the league today, rosters aren't filled with stronger players. And the game has changed to where strength doesn't mean what it once did.


There are more stars now the ever before.

Why do you think they changed the defensive rules? Players were becoming to good at defense due to becoming better athletes. They were quicker, could step across quicker and stop a drive, stronger and could keep a player out of the paint.

It's fact.

Look at the records, look at progress in other sports, look at the athletes of today. There is no way in hell basketball is the only sport that has gotten worse so cut the crap and stop di ck riding previous generations due to nostalgia or because your favourite players were around at the time. Because the fact is, everything progresses and gets better in the world of sports.

[Godfather]

Yes it is.

Someone please look at this idiot's video. Wilkins is at least an inch with his head under the rim.

[Odomize]

There are two things I have to say on this:

1. It's false.

2. Even if the physical aspects were true, those things don't necessarily make better ball players.


1. its true

2. yes it does.

[plowking]

Yes it is.

LOL no where near. But I don't doubt he could have. Though this doesn't change anything. There are exceptions and exceptional athletes in each era that stand out from the rest.

[Showtime]

Why are records being broken constantly? Why are the records set back in 1960's in all sports still not standing if they were better athletes?

So basketball is the only sport where the game has regressed. Ok I believe you, how was I so foolish...
Nobody said that older players are automatically superior, but it also doesn't mean they are automatically inferior. You can't make blanket statements when you look at all the factors involved. There is a progression to the sport, but that doesn't mean the "here and now" is always superior.

[plowking]

Someone please look at this idiot's video. Wilkins is at least an inch with his head under the rim.

He is not near the ring, but I'm sure he could.

[Godfather]

He is not near the ring, but I'm sure he could.

Of course he could. But the fact is he can't do it on a consistent basis (in game) like LeBron and Howard could.

[juju151111]

There are more stars now the ever before.

Why do you think they changed the defensive rules? Players were becoming to good at defense due to becoming better athletes. They were quicker, could step across quicker and stop a drive, stronger and could keep a player out of the paint.

It's fact.

Look at the records, look at progress in other sports, look at the athletes of today. There is no way in hell basketball is the only sport that has gotten worse so cut the crap and stop di ck riding previous generations due to nostalgia or because your favourite players were around at the time. Because the fact is, everything progresses and gets better in the world of sports.
I agree with what ur saying, but it's not by alot.Shawb kemp,Dr.J,orlando woodrigle,Glyde,MJ,shaq,Hakeem(yet to see someone in ur era be has skill has the dream),wilkins etc... could do all the stuff i see these guys doing today.Do you think if Ali came back today and fought he would get knocked out???

[juju151111]

LOL no where near. But I don't doubt he could have. Though this doesn't change anything. There are exceptions and exceptional athletes in each era that stand out from the rest.
Then wat are u arguing about???Every era has the special athletes.(not the 60s and early 70s tho.)

[juju151111]

Of course he could. But the fact is he can't do it on a consistent basis (in game) like LeBron and Howard could.
LOL Howard is like 6'11.He can do it in gm.He was power dunking it.He could of jumped higher.Shawn kemp can do anything DW can do.

[plowking]

Then wat are u arguing about???Every era has the special athletes.(not the 60s and early 70s tho.)

Now we have more. It's almost standard for a player to be as athletically gifted as most of the stars in the league.

[plowking]

I agree with what ur saying, but it's not by alot.Shawb kemp,Dr.J,orlando woodrigle,Glyde,MJ,shaq,Hakeem(yet to see someone in ur era be has skill has the dream),wilkins etc... could do all the stuff i see these guys doing today.Do you think if Ali came back today and fought he would get knocked out???

Do you have any proof Ali wouldn't? There are no trends as in to say athletes were better than before, where there is to say athletes are better now then before.

You work it out. :violin:

[juju151111]

Now we have more. It's almost standard for a player to be as athletically gifted as most of the stars in the league.
I guest a few more per team.The 80s and 90s guys could do the samethings tho.I want to see something they can't do.

[juju151111]

Do you have any proof Ali wouldn't? There are no trends as in to say athletes were better than before, where there is to say athletes are better now then before.

You work it out. :violin:
LOL yea watever.ALi is one of the greatest boxer's ever and u thin he will get knocked out.I am sure Mike tyson(Prime) would too right.:lol :oldlol: :roll: If they are so better show me something they can't do.

[Sir Charles]

The thing is that Athleticism is important if you CAN PLAY THE GAME...If you Can`t It...Then I Prefer a Lesser Athletic Player that Can Play ala Duncan of today`s game. And the fact is: Today`s Player LACK FUNDAMENTALS, LACK B-BALL IQ, LACK PASSING GAME, LACK WILL, LACK THE OLDSCHOOL TALENT, LACK GOOD SHOT SELECTION...compared to 80s Players and even 70s.

OFcourse they are at Average more Athletic than the 70s...The 80s and 90s by a little margin (not the Height, Today`s Players are Shorter at Average than the 80s Decade: Tallest Ever!) but the difference is the 80s Players had both what the 70s and 2000s have: Fundamentals, Passing Game etc etc and Extrame Will To Win (GLory) and the Athleticism...in many players superior to todays.

In the 80s Many Teams where More Athletic than the Celtics.

DJ: Chubby Point Guard
Bird: Slow Non Leaping SF/PF
McHale: Ukward looking CF with Not Very Many Athletic Gifts either...
Parish: Hunchbacked Center that was not the Fastest Either

But they Can Play Better than 99% of the Playes Today, They Can Pass Better than 99% of the Players Today, They Can Overthink 100% of the Players today, They Can Shoot Better than 90% of the Players Today, They Can Defend as a Team and Winning Was About Glory not the All Star Game or Money Only....

80s Had The Best Mix of Everything...

[allball]

Julius at 27:

(notice the deadly turnaround bank shot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKbTmjvgTeQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTZmkVsaDWc

there are definitely a lot of skilled athletes now but the overall quality of play is a lot different. i watch games some nights and it's sometimes hard to believe some of these guys are pros skill or no skill and like someone previously said the palming of the ball today was not allowed back in the day. Guys like Erving, D. Thompson, Gervin, Marques Johnson, Michael Ray would thrive in this league today and with better off season training, better shoes and the rules allowing them to palm the ball it would be over. plus these guys today are all Dr. J/Jordan emulators. hell even their dads were so of course they can do a lot of the moves they did. they start practicing them when they're 8 years old. Doc invented as the situation called for it.

as for speed of the game no PG today can push the ball 94ft as fast as Magic and no so called point forward can run the offense the way he could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTO3Ndm0Okg

there are some great players today but this movement to make every one of today's players a great player back in the day is laughable.

[Showtime]

There are more stars now the ever before.

Part of that is the expansion of the popularity of the game and social view, and that means a deeper talent pool of players. I already said this. The flip side, of course, is that there are more leagues and more teams, so it's easier to have "stars" on teams, and the exposure from the media means that star players seem more prevalent. Previous eras of ball didn't have the benefit of sports networks and the internet, so exposure wasn't nearly what it is today.


Why do you think they changed the defensive rules? Players were becoming to good at defense due to becoming better athletes. They were quicker, could step across quicker and stop a drive, stronger and could keep a player out of the paint.

No, the recent rule change was to "open up" the game for perimeter players so that scoring would increase and thus ratings would increase, and zones were put in partly to stop Shaq's dominance, and part of it was, I believe, the NBA players not playing well in international competition where the defensive rules were different. What you see now is a league devoid of solid defense, and a weak post presence. If that were the case, and superior athletes = superior play, then why aren't today's players the most efficient offensive players and the best defenders ever?


It's fact.

Defensive rules were not changed because of some noticeable leap in physical skills. And since you maintain this viewpoint, when did this sudden evolutionary shift occur? I'd like to know.


Look at the records, look at progress in other sports, look at the athletes of today.

You can't see athleticism and skill by looking at records and boxscores. Perhaps that's the reason why you think the way you do.


There is no way in hell basketball is the only sport that has gotten worse so cut the crap and stop di ck riding previous generations due to nostalgia or because your favourite players were around at the time.

First off, I never claimed the sport has regressed. Learn wtf you are talking about, even if that means re-reading my posts. Second, I said the sport, as well as athletes have progressed, but that doesn't mean that all modern players are automatically superior athletes to all previous players, and it sure as hell doesn't make all modern players better basketball players. I have clearly addressed several points in my previous post, so why don't you stop ignoring them and address them. I've given clear examples and explanations.


Because the fact is, everything progresses and gets better in the world of sports.
That's an assumption that I am not prepared to make about the players. I have said that there is a progression of the sport and athleticism of today's league, but that doesn't make them better, smarter, more skilled players. "Better" is subjective. If a player is superior athletically, but gets outplayed by a more effective player who is smarter and more skilled, who is better? The more effective player is better.

[HisJoeness]

very impressive!:bowdown:

but Pippen could also dunk from FT line. Same with Eddie Jones, MJ, Dr. J, VC, Mike Conley Sr. and more:applause:

Hell Terence Stansbury and Larry Nance could dunk from the FT line

[DCL]

this era is more athletic than the past. that's like common sense. every era's athleticism has been gradually progressing from the one before. that's just how it goes. gameplay and skills may not have progressed, but athleticism has. i feel funny to even have to explain this because this is ridiculously obvious. like DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH. don't you even have eyes to see all the 6'1" guards doing crazy dunks like it's nothing these days? or all the built bodies across the board? there were guys like that before, but nowhere close to how many there are today.

pulling names like dr. j or mj is nonsensical. they are odd freaks and do not represent the average at all.

[Showtime]

this era is more athletic than the past. that's like common sense. every era's athleticism has been gradually progressing from the one before. that's just how it goes. gameplay and skills may not have progressed, but athleticism has. i feel funny to even have to explain this because this is ridiculously obvious. like DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH. don't you even have eyes to see all the 6'1" guards doing crazy dunks like it's nothing these days? or all the built bodies across the board? there were guys like that before, but nowhere close to how many there are today.

pulling names like dr. j or mj is nonsensical. they are odd freaks and do not represent the average at all.
So, 6'1'' PG's who dunk all the time aren't odd freaks and do represent the average? The only notable PG's with amazing dunking skills are Baron Davis, Deron Williams, Steve Francis a few years ago, but they are all taller than 6'1''. Maybe Nate Robinson if you want to throw him in there, but he's no star.

[Showtime]

1. its true

2. yes it does.
Yeah, thanks for ignoring everything I said as supporting evidence. Hey, let me know when James White makes the All-Star game. Oh wait, he has to make a NBA team first...

[HisJoeness]

Maybe it's me but I never hear the people who claim the players are soooo much more athletic :rolleyes: explain why and how the players are more athletic.

[Sir Charles]

Look at Charles Barkley`s common coas to coasts in the 80s. What PF of today can Go Coast to Coast and Ball Handle the Way Charles could?

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=V8g_dHsM3Wg

Take a look at Magic`s Passing to Kareem and Bird`s hustle play...

The NBA is **** compared to this era: Magic prooved that age 36 comming back after not play pro for 5 years and Schooled the Whole League. Jordan schooled the League till age 40. Karl Malone too. Barkley owned Garnett and Duncan from 1996-98 when he could no longler play etc.

[DCL]

So, 6'1'' PG's who dunk all the time aren't odd freaks and do represent the average? The only notable PG's with amazing dunking skills are Baron Davis, Deron Williams, Steve Francis a few years ago, but they are all taller than 6'1''. Maybe Nate Robinson if you want to throw him in there, but he's no star.

so many short guys getting up is just an indication, star or no star.

40 inch vert or so used to be elite.

nowadays, you got a handful of guys having that.

back then, the scrubs were game scrubs and unathletic scrubs.

these days, you got a bunch of stromile swifts and tyrus thomas's around the league.

[Sir Charles]

so many short guys getting up is just an indication, star or no star.

40 inch vert or so used to be elite.

nowadays, you got a handful of guys having that.

back then, the scrubs were game scrubs and unathletic scrubs.

these days, you got a bunch of stromile swifts and tyrus thomas's around the league.

But back in the 80s REAL TALENT, REAL DOMINATION, REAL FUNDAMENTALS, REAL SKILLS...made an All Star. Then in the 90s many other Non Fundamental pricks began to get a place All Star due to excessive marketing...and today with even more watering down of the league and clear Decline of B-Ball IQ, Fundamentals, Passing Game, Shot Selection, True NBA Skills...etc more laughable..

[Showtime]

so many short guys getting up is just an indication, star or no star.

40 inch vert or so used to be elite.

nowadays, you got a handful of guys having that.

back then, the scrubs were game scrubs and unathletic scrubs.

these days, you got a bunch of stromile swifts and tyrus thomas's around the league.
Well, that argument actually works against people here. If better athletes automatically make better basketball players, then why are better athletes like Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas not better ball players than guys like David West and Elton Brand? Why does Brad Miller make multiple all star games?

Also, the quote I was directly responding to with my previous post was this:

"don't you even have eyes to see all the 6'1" guards doing crazy dunks like it's nothing these days?"

Which is totally false.

[DCL]

this debate is like retarded stupid to me. i don't know how you guys are seeing things. but it's like explaining that a square has four sides.

how are kids more athletic these days? you can go to a number of factors. nutrition, better physical development knowledge, improved training methods, diet, steroids, whatever.

weight training has been more emphasized. back then, guys didn't even hit the weight room until they got into the league. these days, they all get beefed up early on. some, even in high school.

and if you're still denying a square has four sides, look at the 100m time in track and field. times have been going lower and lower since the 70s. you can attribute to whatever reason (harder training, steroids, whatever), but the obvious fact is that guys are getting more athletic.

[DCL]

Well, that argument actually works against people here. If better athletes automatically make better basketball players, then why are better athletes like Stromile Swift and Tyrus Thomas not better ball players than guys like David West and David Lee?

Also, the quote I was directly responding to with my previous poast was this:

"don't you even have eyes to see all the 6'1" guards doing crazy dunks like it's nothing these days?"

Which is totally false.

better athletes don't make better basketball players. who the hell made that claim?

stromile swift and tyrus thomas suck. jumping and running is all they got.

[Sir Charles]

this debate is like retarded stupid to me. i don't know how you guys are seeing things. but it's like explaining that a square has four sides.

how are kids more athletic these days? you can go to a number of factors. nutrition, better physical development knowledge, improved training methods, diet, steroids, whatever.

weight training has been more emphasized. back then, guys didn't even hit the weight room until they got into the league. these days, they all get beefed up early on. some, even in high school.

and if you're still denying a square has four sides, look at the 100m time in track and field. times have been going lower and lower since the 70s. you can attribute to whatever reason (harder training, steroids, whatever), but the obvious fact is that guys are getting more athletic.

They are getting "At Average" more Athletic" but they are also getting "At average Less Talented, Less Skilled, Less B-BAll IQed, Have Less Fundamentals, Have A Weaker Shot Selection, Have A Lesser Cout Awareness, Have a Lesser Will To Win etc"

The League has Also Gotten "At Average Shorter compared to the 80s because today`s game is trying to Create False Jordans do to the Changes done by Stern"

[Showtime]

better athletes don't make better basketball players. who the hell made that claim?
Look back a few posts. Odomize and Plowking think so.

[DCL]

But back in the 80s REAL TALENT, REAL DOMINATION, REAL FUNDAMENTALS, REAL SKILLS...made an All Star. Then in the 90s many other Non Fundamental pricks began to get a place All Star due to excessive marketing...and today with even more watering down of the league and clear Decline of B-Ball IQ, Fundamentals, Passing Game, Shot Selection, True NBA Skills...etc more laughable..


look, if you want to defend the FUNDAMENTALS and SKILLS of that era, i ain't even gonna argue with you. i even agree with you.

but guys today are more athletic. this does not mean the game play is better though.

[lilojmayo]

MIKE CONLEY SR= GOAT OF ALL FREETHROW DUNKERS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29TixSRcEA4 (40 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33ajPZzWzU

[Odomize]

more athletic = more things one can do on a basketball court. if trained properly, it lead to better players.

just some common sense.

[HisJoeness]

more athletic = more things one can do on a basketball court :oldlol: . if trained properly, it lead to better players.

just some common sense.

Don't sully the name of common sense when it's apparent you lack it. I guess if you can jump and run that translates to dribbling.

[Odomize]

HisJoeness think that jumping high and running fast ability is useless in basketball. :hammerhead:

[HisJoeness]

HisJoeness think that jumping high and running fast ability is useless in basketball. :hammerhead:

It is useless if you can't defend, shoot, dribble, rebound, set a pick, etc.

[Odomize]

It is useless if you can't defend, shoot, dribble, rebound, set a pick, etc.
like, duh :hammerhead:

[HisJoeness]

like, duh :hammerhead:

You backpedaling harder than Carmelo Anthony now.

[Showtime]

more athletic = more things one can do on a basketball court. if trained properly, it lead to better players.

just some common sense.
You are basically saying the player who develops more skills is better. "If trained properly" comment is about DEVELOPED SKILLS, not PURE ATHLETIC TALENT. Players who develop their shooting skills, passing skills, footwork, etc are BETTER ball players regardless of athletic ability. You seem to be confusing athletic ability with skills. The problem is that many, many players today DON'T develop those skills, and don't become top talent. Hakeem developed those skills, and combined with his athleticism, it produced an elite player. Kevin McHale, who didn't have all-league athleticism, developed his skills, and was an elite post scorer. Just because players today are on average better athletes doesn't mean jack unless they develop skills. That's why when people talk about older players being better in some cases, it meant they played the game with more skill. Now, exceptions are granted on both sides, but it's not a blanket truth that today's athleticism = better basketball players.

[Manute for Ever!]

Mike Conely Sr? Video please. I've seen the start of it, but I didn't get to see the full dunk, they simply cut to someone's reaction as he is dunking it.

35 sec. mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Z0nlNcbTw

[Manute for Ever!]

MIKE CONLEY SR= GOAT OF ALL FREETHROW DUNKERS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29TixSRcEA4 (40 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I33ajPZzWzU

Beat me to it, sorry dude, didn't read this far because the thread was making my brain hurt.

[stephanieg]

...when did this sudden evolutionary shift occur? I'd like to know.

I guess you missed that giant asteroid which hit the earth in 1999 and spread this weird green radioactive crap all over the place. Now we're all superheros! ROAR.

[Manute for Ever!]

I guess you missed that giant asteroid which hit the earth in 1999 and spread this weird green radioactive crap all over the place. Now we're all superheros! ROAR.

:applause: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Technology plays a part, too...

http://www.livescience.com/images/060928_powersuit_diagram_02.jpg

[Showtime]

I guess you missed that giant asteroid which hit the earth in 1999 and spread this weird green radioactive crap all over the place. Now we're all superheros! ROAR.
That's what that was?

[Sir Charles]

You are basically saying the player who develops more skills is better. "If trained properly" comment is about DEVELOPED SKILLS, not PURE ATHLETIC TALENT. Players who develop their shooting skills, passing skills, footwork, etc are BETTER ball players regardless of athletic ability. You seem to be confusing athletic ability with skills. The problem is that many, many players today DON'T develop those skills, and don't become top talent. Hakeem developed those skills, and combined with his athleticism, it produced an elite player. Kevin McHale, who didn't have all-league athleticism, developed his skills, and was an elite post scorer. Just because players today are on average better athletes doesn't mean jack unless they develop skills. That's why when people talk about older players being better in some cases, it meant they played the game with more skill. Now, exceptions are granted on both sides, but it's not a blanket truth that today's athleticism = better basketball players.

McHale did not develop his skills etc...HE = IS THE SKILLS. He Defined PF Post Game and Lets Remember...Kevin McHale was 6`10 but had an 8 ft wingspan. Defend a Player that has a Span like that and has the Greatest Post Moves of All Time and I think you`ll be in for a ride...:pimp:

[Manute for Ever!]

McHale did not develop his skills etc...HE = IS THE SKILLS. He Defined PF Post Game and Lets Remember...Kevin McHale was 6`10 but had an 8 ft wingspan. Defend a Player that has a Span like that and has the Greatest Post Moves of All Time and I think you`ll be in for a ride...:pimp:

I agree completely, but why was he a sixth man for so long?

[Sir Charles]

I agree completely, but why was he a sixth man for so long?

Because Credic Maxwell (Very Underrated today = he was as an All-Star caliber Player but in the 80s even All-Star caliber Players had to sit! its called not a watered down league) was still prime and he was also Great Scorer too but he was also as a Better Passer, More Versatile Player, Could Work in a Running Game, Great 1 on 1 Defender etc.The Celtics needed a more versatile team to go against earlier teams and also waited for McHale to develop and blosom into a Paint Defending Machine and the Most Unstoppable Low Post PF Scorer Ever.

One of the Biggest Mistakes K.C Jones made was not use Maxwell and Bird more in the 85 Championship. I would have have even used McHale was Center and Maxwell as PF and leave Bird as SF they would have given more trouble on the Lakers Versatility wise and Offensive wised although Jabbar would have had an easier time but not the Lakers forwards, they would have had way more trouble defensively and offensively.

[Showtime]

McHale did not develop his skills etc...HE = IS THE SKILLS. He Defined PF Post Game and Lets Remember...Kevin McHale was 6`10 but had an 8 ft wingspan. Defend a Player that has a Span like that and has the Greatest Post Moves of All Time and I think you`ll be in for a ride...:pimp:
Without the skills, what good were those arms? That's my point. If you can't develop the footwork and hook shots, it does no good.

[Sir Charles]

Without the skills, what good were those arms? That's my point. If you can't develop the footwork and hook shots, it does no good.

True but if you have those Arms and That B-Ball IQ (McHale was Big Time Intelligent and being a Sub helped him alot to pick out the things that most matered in a game as he says) and the SKILLS he INVENTED = Then get ready for a Ride.

6`10 ft + an 8 ft Winspan and THE INVENTION OF THE POST GAME for a PF to go along with a Shooting Touch that was Rarely Seen fora 6`10er (Both Mid Range, Free Throw etc) = Quite Scary. Ask Barkley, Ask Sampson, Ask even Jabbar, Ask Centers that had to Guard him in a time where real tight handchecking, knee pushing and rough play was allowed

[Showtime]

True but if you have those Arms and That B-Ball IQ (McHale was Big Time Intelligent and being a Sub helped him alot to pick out the things that most matered in a game as he says) and the SKILLS he INVENTED = Then get ready for a Ride.

6`10 ft + an 8 ft Winspan and THE INVENTION OF THE POST GAME for a PF to go along with a Shooting Touch that was Rarely Seen fora 6`10er (Both Mid Range, Free Throw etc) = Quite Scary. Ask Barkley, Ask Sampson, Ask even Jabbar, Ask Centers that had to Guard him in a time where real tight handchecking, knee pushing and rough play was allowed
All I'm saying is that players with the physical capabilities, some with more, weren't as effective because they didn't develop their skills. A body can aid how effective those skills are, but ultimately the more skilled player is the more effective player.

[Odomize]

hisjoeness = stupid

of course you need basketball skills too lol. athleticism raise the bar on what you can do, which produce better players. it depend on each player to develop it.

more common sense.

[HisJoeness]

hisjoeness = stupid

of course you need basketball skills too lol. athleticism raise the bar on what you can do, which produce better players. it depend on each player to develop it.

more common sense.

If I'm stupid then I'm guessing you ride a short yellow bus to school everyday. Your original argument was (and I'm paraphrasing here) athleticism was more important than basketball skill. Here is your reply to one of Showtime's posts when he was debating with plowking.


Players are more athletic, quicker, stronger, more skilled then previous generations of basketball.


There are two things I have to say on this:

1. It's false.

2. Even if the physical aspects were true, those things don't necessarily make better ball players.



1. its true

2. yes it does.

You see in red where you agreed that "physical aspects" make better ball players. Oh, ok. Shut up.

[Manute for Ever!]

If I'm stupid then I'm guessing you ride a short yellow bus to school everyday. Your original argument was (and I'm paraphrasing here) athleticism was more important than basketball skill. Here is your reply to one of Showtime's posts when he was debating with plowking.







You see in red where you agreed that "physical aspects" make better ball players. Oh, ok. Shut up.

http://nomm.com/Stills/images/CheckmateD.jpg

[Showtime]

hisjoeness = stupid

of course you need basketball skills too lol. athleticism raise the bar on what you can do, which produce better players. it depend on each player to develop it.

more common sense.
So wait, if every player is to be judged depending on what each does and what skills they develop, then why did you make a generalization about modern players being better because of their athleticism? You can't have it both ways. You can't say everybody now is better, and then say each should be judged individually.

[Odomize]

hisjoeness = more stupid than i thought.

More athletic, quicker, stronger people = better player produced. common sense.

[plowking]

It is useless if you can't defend, shoot, dribble, rebound, set a pick, etc.

Of course it does. It leads to quicker defenders who can jump, move and get around the court quicker.

[Scott Pippen]

hisjoeness = more stupid than i thought.

More athletic, quicker, stronger people = better player produced. common sense.
absolutely correct!:applause:

ignore hisjoeness. The freaks like J.R. Smith, Tony Allen, and Travis Outlaw are better players and have more tools than the stiffs like Tim Duncan, Yao Ming, & Antawn Jamison.:applause:

[bdreason]

It's all about depth.

The league has more athletic players as a whole then it did in the past (it also has more generally talented players).

This doesn't mean that the top atheletes and players from each era aren't comparable.

[Odomize]

absolutely correct!:applause:

ignore hisjoeness. The freaks like J.R. Smith, Tony Allen, and Travis Outlaw are better players and have more tools than the stiffs like Tim Duncan, Yao Ming, & Antawn Jamison.:applause:
if you think so you're an idiot. read what bdreason wrote.

[MMM]

the top athletes(athletic freaks) of different era are very comparable but the league is more athletic from top to bottom but has regressed in many ways as well. I agree with who said that the 80's had the best balance in terms of Athleticism and other aspects of the game.

[Scott Pippen]

if you think so you're an idiot. read what bdreason wrote.
now you change your story and cannot detect sarcastic comment.:applause:

[Odomize]

if i cant detect sarcasm you cant comprehend a sentence. read again. :applause:

[plowking]

35 sec. mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Z0nlNcbTw

And how is that anywhere near as good as this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDnvZO-KpM

[Showtime]

And how is that anywhere near as good as this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDnvZO-KpM
And is James White in the NBA? Not any more. Ya know who is? David Lee. Who is the more gifted athlete? White. Who is the better ball player? Lee. What good are tremendous athletes if they can't play? Worthless. Your point that there are better athletes today has some merit, but that doesn't mean players today are generally better because of athleticism. If that were true, the best athletes would be the best players.

[Psileas]

And how is that anywhere near as good as this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDnvZO-KpM

In case you forgot, Conley is 6-2, compared to 6-7 for White.
And what do you mean "anywhere near"? It's not as if Conley stepped 5 feet closer than White.

Edit: Wikipedia actually lists him at 5-11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Conley,_Sr.

[plowking]

In case you forgot, Conley is 6-2, compared to 6-7 for White.
And what do you mean "anywhere near"? It's not as if Conley stepped 5 feet closer than White.

Edit: Wikipedia actually lists him at 5-11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Conley,_Sr.

He did a windmill from the free throw line. Whether you are 6 foot or even 8 foot that is athletic. He also does a between the legs from the free throw line. I guess that also has to do with the 5 inches that seperate them right?

[plowking]

And is James White in the NBA? Not any more. Ya know who is? David Lee. Who is the more gifted athlete? White. Who is the better ball player? Lee. What good are tremendous athletes if they can't play? Worthless. Your point that there are better athletes today has some merit, but that doesn't mean players today are generally better because of athleticism. If that were true, the best athletes would be the best players.

What was the point of the thread in the first place. To show that the 70's and 80's had more athletic players then todays game. That is incorrect and that has been proved.
Look at some of todays scrubs and bench players. Tyrus Thomas, Stromile Swift, Hakim Warick (he isn't a scrub), Gerald Green, etc. A lot more athletic then the scrubs back in the 80's.

Furthermore how does more athleticism not make you a better player? You can blow by defenders quicker, move quicker on defense, jump higher to block shots, get back quicker, get more elevation on your jumpshot.

Look at the stars of today. Almost all of them are incredibly athletic. Lebron, Wade, Vince Carter and Dwight Howard are possibly some of the most athletic players ever to play the game.

[Psileas]

He did a windmill from the free throw line. Whether you are 6 foot or even 8 foot that is athletic. He also does a between the legs from the free throw line. I guess that also has to do with the 5 inches that seperate them right?

Of course it does (btw, it seems it's 7 inches, not 5). Don't you think hand and palm size have something to do with holding and controlling the ball easier? Who have dunked more often and easily from the FT line/between the legs? 6-7 guys or 5-11 ones? Not the same at all. Would White do the stuff he does if he was 5-11?

PS. 6 feet (approx. Conley's height) and 8 feet (even more so) are both basketball extremes and would obviously make such a dunker an athletic freak. However, 6-7, though it still requires a lot of athleticism to perform dunks like White's, is the optimal height for competition dunkers. You get extra points from being short, and 6-7 is not short.