Is Pau Gasol the true MVP of the Lakers right now?

[Lakers Fan]

Kobe Bryant 24/5/4 on 46% shooting

Pau Gasol 18/9/3 on 57% shooting!

Pau stats would probably be much higher if they fed him more when he was hot and made more set plays for him. More importantly he has taken very few games off while Kobe has completely lost his shot lately and has been torched defensively. Pau has been like a rock for the Lakers and Bynum too for that matter after about the first 10 adjustment games coming off the injury. Kobe has been superstar brilliant in a lot, if not most games but he has lost the consistency you would expect from a 30 year old veteran. Am I wrong in thinking that right now Pau is playing like the Laker's MVP and he needs to get more touches, unless it's one of the games that Kobe has displayed that he has found his shot for that game?

[Mdog1]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.

[Jinxed]

He was awesome last night. It's close. And too think that Pau's touches are severely limited due to Bynum's presence. Which also keeps Pau having to play farther away from the basket. He is much better low down on the block, even though he can hit the mid range jumper.

[YAWN]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.
:rolleyes:

and to the OP: no.

[Smokee]

I think so. Its amazing to me all i see here are kobe this and kobe that, and very few of you give Gasol respect. Even Bynum gets more hype here than Gasol, when Gasol is so high% and consistent for you guys game to game. I swear if you all lost Gasol you'd be way less of a threat, than just losing Bynum, and i'd even go as far to say Kobe to a degree.

Even non Laker fans here hate on Gasol for some reason. But every time i watch them Gasol is just such a low post threat with his longness defensively, offensively by just standing there, and is always shooting high% with limited shots. Meanwhile Kobe will go like 5 - 14 or something and be the talk of the board :ohwell:

Gasol could do more offensively at a higher % if focused on than Kobe imo. He gets way better shots in general, and everything he misses tends to bounce around the top of the rim and fall off, but those short little hooks right in front of the basket i'd take most of the time over anyone's jumpers including Kobe, unless he's feeling it. Not saying he's better than Kobe but i swear he's not that far behind, and gets little to no respect because people ride Kobe and Bynum's nuts so hard here :hammerhead:

[KenneBell]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.
:roll:

[Lakers Fan]

He was awesome last night. It's close. And too think that Pau's touches are severely limited due to Bynum's presence. Which also keeps Pau having to play farther away from the basket. He is much better low down on the block, even though he can hit the mid range jumper.

That is true but when Bynum is out, he still doesn't get the touches he should. Pau should have been milked for he was worth in the first 3 quarters, and then he could have sat out in the 4th because it would have been a blowout. It would have been a lot more effective than the other Lakers trying to play Phoenix's game and looking to take quick, low % jumpers and forgetting about defense.

[Knoe Itawl]

:rolleyes:

and to the OP: no.

Pulleese. To act like it's ridiculous to even suggest it is why I can't stand the whole Kobe Aura thing. If it's fair to question who the MVP on the Celtics is, why isn't it fair to do so with the Lakers, given how well Gasol is playing?

It's like there's the assumption that no matter how Bryant plays (or how anyone else plays) he just always gets to be "the best". I guess "just because"

[Mdog1]

:rolleyes:

and to the OP: no.
um they were right around .500 without him. They traded for him they went 25-3 or something like that. He saved their year. They would have not gotten to the finals, and would have been an 6-8 seed.

[Lakers Fan]

I think so. Its amazing to me all i see here are kobe this and kobe that, and very few of you give Gasol respect. Even Bynum gets more hype here than Gasol, when Gasol is so high% and consistent for you guys game to game. I swear if you all lost Gasol you'd be way less of a threat, than just losing Bynum, and i'd even go as far to say Kobe to a degree.

Even non Laker fans here hate on Gasol for some reason. But every time i watch them Gasol is just such a low post threat with his longness defensively, offensively by just standing there, and is always shooting high% with limited shots. Meanwhile Kobe will go like 5 - 14 or something and be the talk of the board :ohwell:

Gasol could do more offensively at a higher % if focused on than Kobe imo. He gets way better shots in general, and everything he misses tends to bounce around the top of the rim and fall off, but those short little hooks right in front of the basket i'd take most of the time over anyone's jumpers including Kobe, unless he's feeling it. Not saying he's better than Kobe but i swear he's not that far behind, and gets little to no respect because people ride Kobe and Bynum's nuts so hard here :hammerhead:

Bynum has been playing very good lately too just like Pau and playing better defense than most of the Lakers too. Have you been watching all the Laker's games? Bynum suffers from the same problem Pau does, in the Lakers not looking to get him enough touches. Bynum is shooting 56% and Pau 57%(they both should be fed more!) but have little doubt that Bynum's shooting percentage will be over 60% by end of season because he struggled in the first 10 games or so.

[YAWN]

Pulleese. To act like it's ridiculous to even suggest it is why I can't stand the whole Kobe Aura thing. If it's fair to question who the MVP on the Celtics is, why isn't it fair to do so with the Lakers, given how well Gasol is playing?

It's like there's the assumption that no matter how Bryant plays (or how anyone else plays) he just always gets to be "the best". I guess "just because"

its called watching the games and assessing them from an unbiased point of view. mdogs reply was obviously trolling as noted by his hundreds of replies in laker threads.

you take pippen off the 96 bulls and they may not win 60 games. Does that make pippen the mvp? obviously no..

[Lakers Fan]

um they were right around .500 without him. They traded for him they went 25-3 or something like that. He saved their year. They would have not gotten to the finals, and would have been an 6-8 seed.

Correction! The Lakers struggled without Pau AND Bynum. The Lakers were number one in the west with just Bynum and no Pau before he went down.

[Younggrease]

I think so. Its amazing to me all i see here are kobe this and kobe that, and very few of you give Gasol respect. Even Bynum gets more hype here than Gasol, when Gasol is so high% and consistent for you guys game to game. I swear if you all lost Gasol you'd be way less of a threat, than just losing Bynum, and i'd even go as far to say Kobe to a degree.

Even non Laker fans here hate on Gasol for some reason. But every time i watch them Gasol is just such a low post threat with his longness defensively, offensively by just standing there, and is always shooting high% with limited shots. Meanwhile Kobe will go like 5 - 14 or something and be the talk of the board :ohwell:

Gasol could do more offensively at a higher % if focused on than Kobe imo. He gets way better shots in general, and everything he misses tends to bounce around the top of the rim and fall off, but those short little hooks right in front of the basket i'd take most of the time over anyone's jumpers including Kobe, unless he's feeling it. Not saying he's better than Kobe but i swear he's not that far behind, and gets little to no respect because people ride Kobe and Bynum's nuts so hard here :hammerhead:

Have you ever seen someone help on Gasol in the post...even once?wonder why..you ever wonder why he gets like 5-6 open 8 footers a game...its because no one is worried about him

But right now Pau is playing better then Kobe(there are a lot of people playing better then Kobe now). Kobe is having a bad start to the year...he is entitled to that as long as he gets his act together. All I know is that I have zero faith in Pau in any situation that has any bit of pressure involved. He also runs from shots at times

[Mdog1]

Correction! The Lakers struggled without Pau AND Bynum. The Lakers were number one in the west with just Bynum and no Pau before he went down.
Yes and then Bynum went down. They started sucking. They got Pau and got the one seed by one win. See my point without Pau they don't get the one seed, finish around 6-8.

[Scott Pippen]

Kobe Bryant 24/5/4 on 46% shooting

Pau Gasol 18/9/3 on 57% shooting!

Pau stats would probably be much higher if they fed him more when he was hot and made more set plays for him. More importantly he has taken very few games off while Kobe has completely lost his shot lately and has been torched defensively. Pau has been like a rock for the Lakers and Bynum too for that matter after about the first 10 adjustment games coming off the injury. Kobe has been superstar brilliant in a lot, if not most games but he has lost the consistency you would expect from a 30 year old veteran. Am I wrong in thinking that right now Pau is playing like the Laker's MVP and he needs to get more touches, unless it's one of the games that Kobe has displayed that he has found his shot for that game?

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2437910

:applause:

[Lakers Fan]

Have you ever seen someone help on Gasol in the post...even once?wonder why..you ever wonder why he gets like 5-6 open 8 footers a game...its because no one is worried about him

WTF are you seeing? When he is out there with no Bynum and he is hitting his shots, he is getting mugged! With both Bynum and Pau playing, players can't cheat on him as easy. Plus even if "no one is worried about him", then how come he isn't fed more by the other Lakers, including Kobe, instead of taking low % jumpers? IMHO Kobe should already have several 15 assist games with both Pau and Bynum down low.

[Knoe Itawl]

its called watching the games and assessing them from an unbiased point of view. mdogs reply was obviously trolling as noted by his hundreds of replies in laker threads.

you take pippen off the 96 bulls and they may not win 60 games. Does that make pippen the mvp? obviously no..

Forget about the Bulls. This isn't a situation where one player is playing OBVIOUSLY better than anyone else on the team (as was Jordan). I have watched the games, and Gasol is damn tough down low. He bails them out all the time on the blocks and causes havoc for opposing defenses. Not to mention that, along with Bynum, he is an imposing defensive presence. I'm not saying Gasol is BETTER than Kobe, but to roll your eyes sarcastically at the very idea that Gasol can be mentioned as MVP for the Lakers this season is ridiculous and indicative of the whole "never question Kobe's status" mentality. Fact of the matter is that so far this season, when Kobe hasn't been playing all world ball, Gasol can and SHOULD be mentioned as MVP for the Lakers. THAT is the unbiased view.

[Knoe Itawl]

WTF are you seeing? When he is out there with no Bynum and he is hitting his shots, he is getting mugged! With both Bynum and Pau playing, players can't cheat on him as easy. Plus even if "no one is worried about him", then how come he isn't fed more by the other Lakers, including Kobe, instead of taking low % jumpers? IMHO Kobe should already have several 15 assist games with both Pau and Bynum down low.

An honest post! Younggrease is wrong. I've routinely seen Gasol get double teamed on the block, and if not the defenders are certainly very aware of where he is when he gets the ball/starts making a move. He gets plenty of defensive attention.

[ihatetimthomas]

Pau has been the best Laker this year easily. He has been the most consistent player in both their wins and losses. As of today, yes he is the Lakers MVP. Granted having the threat of Kobe on the floor helps Gasol and everyone, but Gasol has been phenomenal. His jumper is dropping and he is abusing guys in the post. Rebounding extremely wel and running the floor well.

Not concerned with Kobe's slow start though. He hasnt been exerting a ton of energy, so i am hoping he can be fresh the 2nd half of the season. I do believe he will turn it up next year and will once again become the Lakers MVP. But as of now, hands down Gasol has been the best Laker

[YAWN]

Forget about the Bulls. This isn't a situation where one player is playing OBVIOUSLY better than anyone else on the team (as was Jordan). I have watched the games, and Gasol is damn tough down low. He bails them out all the time on the blocks and causes havoc for opposing defenses. Not to mention that, along with Bynum, he is an imposing defensive presence. I'm not saying Gasol is BETTER than Kobe, but to roll your eyes sarcastically at the very idea that Gasol can be mentioned as MVP for the Lakers this season is ridiculous and indicative of the whole "never question Kobe's status" mentality. Fact of the matter is that so far this season, when Kobe hasn't been playing all world ball, Gasol can and SHOULD be mentioned as MVP for the Lakers. THAT is the unbiased view.

gasol was the mvp of last nights game vs the suns; but not the overwhelming mvp of the lakers thus far this season. happy?

[Smokee]

Bynum has been playing very good lately too just like Pau and playing better defense than most of the Lakers too. Have you been watching all the Laker's games? Bynum suffers from the same problem Pau does, in the Lakers not looking to get him enough touches. Bynum is shooting 56% and Pau 57%(they both should be fed more!) but have little doubt that Bynum's shooting percentage will be over 60% by end of season because he struggled in the first 10 games or so.


Bynum gets give me baskets more often than Gasol. I don't think you can say they are the same at all. Like Bynum posting up isn't nearly the same as Gasol in front of the rim shooting that half hook. Bynum gets stuff thats there, and he has easy position and yeah he makes stuff other times too, not saying he's bad, but he's not Gasol in terms of getting that consistent high quality shot and trusting it.

Gasol has been consistent since the start of the season, Bynum has only lately been coming on...

[Knoe Itawl]

gasol was the mvp of last nights game vs the suns; but not the mvp of the lakers thus far this season. happy?

It's not just the Suns though, and others in this very thread have noticed the same thing (even Lakers fans). Gasol has been balling, Bryant has been good but not great. Not just last night, but in GENERAL. It's not so much that you believe Bryant is the MVP of the Lakers, it's your apparent attitude that it shouldn't even be CONSIDERED that Gasol has been, when that's far from the case. Again, it's all part of the "Never question Kobe's status no matter what" mentality some people have.

[Smokee]

Have you ever seen someone help on Gasol in the post...even once?wonder why..you ever wonder why he gets like 5-6 open 8 footers a game...its because no one is worried about him

But right now Pau is playing better then Kobe(there are a lot of people playing better then Kobe now). Kobe is having a bad start to the year...he is entitled to that as long as he gets his act together. All I know is that I have zero faith in Pau in any situation that has any bit of pressure involved. He also runs from shots at times


You could say the same about Kobe, and him trying to get off a jumper with 2 people on him. Like i said i'd take Gasol's half hook that he consistently gets 3ft in front of the basket most of the time, even if they tried to double that i don't think they could really stop it. Gasol isn't a dumb player whatsoever, i trust him enough to either kick out or take it if it looks good. I'm not even talking about that top of the free throw line jumper he consistently can make but the half hooks that should go in like 90% of the time tbh.

Gasol also fills the lanes and is the easy assist waiting to happen SO MUCH. I can't tell you how often he makes that no look Kobe pass and finish so easy. Sure some of its Kobe, but some of its also Gasol being however tall he is, mobile, and naturally long where he doesn't have to jump to get a clean layup, dunk, or shot.

Its his natural longness that makes him such an asset i guess, which Bynum has too, but Gasol is just smarter, more trustworthy, and has finesse with better range.

[YAWN]

It's not just the Suns though, and others in this very thread have noticed the same thing (even Lakers fans). Gasol has been balling, Bryant has been good but not great. Not just last night, but in GENERAL. It's not so much that you believe Bryant is the MVP of the Lakers, it's your apparent attitude that it shouldn't even be CONSIDERED that Gasol has been, when that's far from the case. Again, it's all part of the "Never question Kobe's status no matter what" mentality some people have.

not really. i mean i do think its pretty obvious who the best basketball player on the lakers is. but it hasnt been clear cut who has been playing the best. As im sure you have noticed alot of the lakers fan base has knee jerk reactions and they vary game by game. If kobe puts up 35/6/6 on 50% shooting next game they will all be all over this board declaring him the mvp of the league.

I simply think Gasol has been playing well and Kobe has not to his standards. But even then. I still see kobe as the mvp of the team.

Even in last nights games when he would actually do the smart thing and penetrate, the entire defense would collapse on him, which led to wide open jumpers by fisher, vujacic and even gasol.

[Lakers Fan]

Gasol has been consistent since the start of the season, Bynum has only lately been coming on...

I don't think anyone expected otherwise after him sitting out so long with an injury. Healthy big men stay more consistent than smalls and I expect both Bynum and Gasol to be solid for the Lakers all year long.

[chains5000]

I posted something like this in another thread a week or so before. Who's the MVP/better player aside, I'd say a Pau injury would hurt the Lakers more than a Kobe one.
Opinions?

[ihatetimthomas]

I posted something like this in another thread a week or so before. Who's the MVP/better player aside, I'd say a Pau injury would hurt the Lakers more than a Kobe one.
Opinions?

tough call, but i still gotta go with Kobe being injured being the worst for the Lakers. Gasol has been the best laker thus far, but LO replacing Gasol is far better than Sasha replacing Kobe. Lamar is really a starter, so him replacing Gasol wouldnt hurt as much as having a one dimensional shooter in Sasha

[tamaraw08]

Bynum has been playing very good lately too just like Pau and playing better defense than most of the Lakers too. Have you been watching all the Laker's games? Bynum suffers from the same problem Pau does, in the Lakers not looking to get him enough touches. Bynum is shooting 56% and Pau 57%(they both should be fed more!) but have little doubt that Bynum's shooting percentage will be over 60% by end of season because he struggled in the first 10 games or so.

I thought you made a mistake stating that Bynum is shooting 56% because I thought he was shooting less than that, but you are right. About him shooting a higher % later in the season, this will really happen if he starts to be more assertive establishing deeper position inside. My complain about him is he lurks beyond 15 ft too much, opting to catch the ball way too far IMO, Odom and Kobe at times are more assertive pinning their man inside than Drew. I undertand they like to open the lanes more for other players to operate, but Bynum can just tear the defense up if he is more aggresive.

[Mdog1]

Ok so I did some research to back up my point. Bynum went down 35 games into the season. The Lakers from that time until they got Pau went 5-5 aka .500. They went from 25-11 (.694) (24-11 was the game he went down in) to 30-16 (.652) during that span. When they got Pau they went 27-9 after they got him, but I know that he got hurt for a few games. That brought their percentage back up to 695.

Without Pau the team would possibly have continued to play .500 ball and won 48 games. Bam all over you.

[chains5000]

tough call, but i still gotta go with Kobe being injured being the worst for the Lakers. Gasol has been the best laker thus far, but LO replacing Gasol is far better than Sasha replacing Kobe. Lamar is really a starter, so him replacing Gasol wouldnt hurt as much as having a one dimensional shooter in Sasha
You could trade Odom for a guard, but think about the playoffs. With their current play, I'd rather have Gasol and Bynum surrounded by shooters than Odom playing PF against some other West PF big names.

[Smokee]

All I know is that I have zero faith in Pau in any situation that has any bit of pressure involved. He also runs from shots at times


I think its more he's afraid of Kobe yelliing at him, or something along those lines. It just seems like that whole team is walking on eggshells trying to appease Kobe when i watch them, especially during crucial moments where its almost like they HAVE to defer to Kobe. Maybe i'm wrong but i get that impression.

[ihatetimthomas]

You could trade Odom for a guard, but think about the playoffs. With their current play, I'd rather have Gasol and Bynum surrounded by shooters than Odom playing PF against some other West PF big names.

I dont know about that. I think in the playoffs, you need a guy like kobe. You cant just rely on the jumpshooters to make their shots. You need a guy who can intiate the offense and to create his own shot. Kobe may have fallen short in the finals, buts its him who brought them there with his spectacular play.

[VCMVP1551]

I have no problem with anyone saying Pau has been the Lakers MVP.

Pau- 18.0 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 3.4 apg, 0.9 bpg, 57.1 FG%, 77.6 FT%, 12.0 FGA, 34.9 mpg

Kobe- 24.5 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.5 spg, 45.8 FG%, 27.7 3P%, 87.6 FT%, 19.2 FGA, 34.0 mpg

I believe that Kobe is their best player but Pau has arguably been more valuable this year.

Pau's only competition right now for the title of best low post player is Tim Duncan. Pau is the best passing big man in the league. He's extremely unselfish and he's very efficient. He's also an excellent rebounder and one of the best shooting 7 footers in the NBA.

The only problem I have with Pau being in the discussion for league MVP is that he's not even the first option on his team. He needs WAY more than 12 shots per game though.

[gts]

Originally Posted by Younggrease
Have you ever seen someone help on Gasol in the post...even once?wonder why..you ever wonder why he gets like 5-6 open 8 footers a game...its because no one is worried about him Pau gets plenty of atention.. not sure what game you are watching... there's a reason he is second behind kobe in going to the free throw line and it's not because "no one is worried about him" honestly do you really think teams are so stupid to not pay attention to the teams second leading scorer? and the go to man in the paint...

oh wait i suppose bynum is the go to man in the paint or would be if phil didn't have an agenda against bynum right?

as for the OP Pau has been the most consistent player this year and probably playing the best all around ball on the team...

[tamaraw08]

Kobe Bryant 24/5/4 on 46% shooting

Pau Gasol 18/9/3 on 57% shooting!

Pau stats would probably be much higher if they fed him more when he was hot and made more set plays for him. More importantly he has taken very few games off while Kobe has completely lost his shot lately and has been torched defensively. Pau has been like a rock for the Lakers and Bynum too for that matter after about the first 10 adjustment games coming off the injury. Kobe has been superstar brilliant in a lot, if not most games but he has lost the consistency you would expect from a 30 year old veteran. Am I wrong in thinking that right now Pau is playing like the Laker's MVP and he needs to get more touches, unless it's one of the games that Kobe has displayed that he has found his shot for that game?
No, I think you are not wrong, I agree with your post, and Im going much farther by saying, IF he continue this, he should be considered atleast for the hall of fame. The guy is so consistent, scoring, rebounding, shot blocking with both weak and strong teams, held his own against Duncan in the playoffs.
I can't believe so-called analysts and harsh fans branded him as soft after the finals. After playing so well agains't Denver, Utah and Spurs, all of a sudden he is soft, forget the fact that every other Lakers forgot to defend and shoot the ball, it's all about Pau being soft.
If Pau is muscular and not slim, if yells/Growls/taunts other players, If he has 2 extra inches of vertical leap, if he market himself and be outspoken, he is a slam dunk for the hall of fame.

[Younggrease]

I think its more he's afraid of Kobe yelliing at him, or something along those lines. It just seems like that whole team is walking on eggshells trying to appease Kobe when i watch them, especially during crucial moments where its almost like they HAVE to defer to Kobe. Maybe i'm wrong but i get that impression.

is that why he has been called out by the spainish media and teamates in memphis for the ame thing?

[chains5000]

is that why he has been called out by the spainish media and teamates in memphis for the ame thing?
The Spanish media NEVER calls out any Spanish NBA player. NEVER.

[AllNBAArenas]

is that why he has been called out by the spainish media and teamates in memphis for the ame thing?

Be honest dog. The real reason you don't like Pau is because he is a euro, or he is white, he takes attention away from your man-crushed Kobe, or some combination of those. How can anyone take so many sniper shots at a player who is ballin for your team the way Pau is? :oldlol:

[mongePR(kb24)]

till today pau has been the most efficient and consistent laker. True MVP? debatable.

[Godfather]

People saying Pau is the MVP over Kobe; do you watch the defensive side of the ball?

[Allstar24]

is that why he has been called out by the spainish media and teamates in memphis for the ame thing?
LMAO here comes Younggrease with his unrelenting hate for Pau...never gets old :oldlol:
Anyway I don't see the point of this discussion. I mean, I understand the trolls who will jump into any conversation to put down Kobe. But if you're a Laker fan...both guys play on your team, why does it matter who is the MVP? :confusedshrug: We really have more important issues to worry about right now.

I'll give Pau credit for carrying the Lakers on the offensive end, especially when Kobe's been struggling. He sure looked like the Laker's best player last night, no way we could've won that game without him. He needs to play better D though, we have enough players on this team who can score. If we're going to beat Boston and the Spurs with Gasol as our MVP, he needs to be more assertive and not get pushed around.

[Showtime]

I said Gasol was LA's MVP last year for saving the season and helping them get the top spot after Bynum goes down, and I get slammed. People say the exact same thing about him this year with Kobe struggling, and it's not farfetched.

[Jacks3]

:oldlol: at this thread. Kobe has been playing like garbage and he STILL has a higher PER then Gasol, he still has better defensive numbers. Kobe is the Lakers' MVP unarguably. He's the guy who other teams game-plan to stop. He draws the doubles and triples. Kobe is a top 5 player, Pau isn't even top 10. No surprise that the Kobe haters all of a sudden became big Pau fans :oldlol: .

[JJ81]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.

If Kobe wasn't there last season, there wouldn't be a team to save

[Maniak]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.

I pray to god you are being sarcastic. :oldlol:

[lilmarcgasol]

ok you guys got it all wrong yes everyone knows that Pau is a great regular season player dont forget in his younger days he was an allstar and lead his team-BAD TEAMS BTW to 50 wins, it's when things get tough and hard for little Pau Pau that he runs away, think big games for Spain and also any playoff game, yeh in any non-nuggets playoff game for the lakers has Pau ever gone off and where was he in the finals? For the Grizz I don't even think Pau had a post season win, and his own teammates always complained he stepped away when they needed him most, Spanish press is always on him for it too. Ok take the rep Dirk has and put it on Gasol, Gasol deserves that rep way more though atleast Dirk has won playoff series and not shrunk away scared, Pau just completely goes away when he's most needed IE YOU CAN'T COUNT ON HIM

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/6/12/ohaiwerebr128577633328423636.jpg
hje could use some of his bro's toughness and clutchness

-EDIT PUT IN YOUTUBE LINK INSTEAD OF PIC

[big baller]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.

idiot....:banghead:

[Diesel J]

:roll:


What's son funny about that? It's true. You think the Lakers would have kept on winning with Bynum down and no Gasol?:lol

[gts]

ok you guys got it all wrong yes everyone knows that Pau is a great regular season player dont forget in his younger days he was an allstar and lead his team-BAD TEAMS BTW to 50 wins, it's when things get tough and hard for little Pau Pau that he runs away, think big games for Spain and also any playoff game, yeh in any non-nuggets playoff game for the lakers has Pau ever gone off and where was he in the finals? For the Grizz I don't even think Pau had a post season win, and his own teammates always complained he stepped away when they needed him most, Spanish press is always on him for it too. Ok take the rep Dirk has and put it on Gasol, Gasol deserves that rep way more though atleast Dirk has won playoff series and not shrunk away scared, Pau just completely goes away when he's most needed IE YOU CAN'T COUNT ON HIM



the question is

Is Pau Gasol the true MVP of the Lakers right now?

[lilmarcgasol]

I think its more he's afraid of Kobe yelliing at him, or something along those lines. It just seems like that whole team is walking on eggshells trying to appease Kobe when i watch them, especially during crucial moments where its almost like they HAVE to defer to Kobe. Maybe i'm wrong but i get that impression.
wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong when Spain need him when Grizzlies needed him especially in the playoffs he did the exact same thing AS THE MAIN MAN, no he's not afraid of Kobe just afraid in general I thought by now he'd be a man but nope he still is afraid

[lilmarcgasol]

the question is

Is Pau Gasol the true MVP of the Lakers right now?
no way he playing good now yeh but in the playoffs no way and also in clutch situations no way i can count on him at all sons, infact like odom and kwame he's more like a self destructor in clutch moments, so um no I think Kobe more valuable what would you rather have, no pau and Kobe or Pau and no Kobe, like for example one got hurt for long period of time who would u choose, well Lakers with Kobe and Bynum were first in the west last season I doubt a Pau led Lakers would do very well especially if they tried to count on him as a closer

[big baller]

the question is

Is Pau Gasol the true MVP of the Lakers right now?

he is doing good, but i cant say he is the man....kobe still holds tht position, now and in the future.

[Mdog1]

Ok so I did some research to back up my point. Bynum went down 35 games into the season. The Lakers from that time until they got Pau went 5-5 aka .500. They went from 25-11 (.694) (24-11 was the game he went down in) to 30-16 (.652) during that span. When they got Pau they went 27-9 after they got him, but I know that he got hurt for a few games. That brought their percentage back up to 695.

Without Pau the team would possibly have continued to play .500 ball and won 48 games. Bam all over you.
This must have gotten burried. For those of you that don't believe it go to the schedule and do the math your self. This is a big FU to everyone who thought I was an idiot for saying Pau saved the Lakers season last year.

[lilmarcgasol]

This must have gotten burried. For those of you that don't believe it go to the schedule and do the math your self. This is a big FU to everyone who thought I was an idiot for saying Pau saved the Lakers season last year.
yes dumpster child no one can deny he is a great regular season player he proved that leading bad grizzlies teams to 50 wins, it's playoffs and finals IE WHEN YOU NEED HIM MOST when he chooses to put up like 10ppg yeh you think Pau is MVP of the Lakers, the man who never went off in the playoffs in his life and put up like multiple single digit points games in the finals?

[Mdog1]

yes dumpster child no one can deny he is a great regular season player he proved that leading bad grizzlies teams to 50 wins, it's playoffs and finals IE WHEN YOU NEED HIM MOST when he chooses to put up like 10ppg yeh you think Pau is MVP of the Lakers, the man who never went off in the playoffs in his life and put up like multiple single digit points games in the finals?
Since when does Playoffs have anything to do with being the best player during the regular season? You are an idiot and you just found yourself on the ignore list with the other idiots.

[Allstar24]

I said Gasol was LA's MVP last year for saving the season and helping them get the top spot after Bynum goes down, and I get slammed. People say the exact same thing about him this year with Kobe struggling, and it's not farfetched.
Vice versa...Pau's team was going nowhere, they were in a much worse situation than the Lakers. Coming to the LA saved Pau's season as much as it saved Kobe's. As everyone said last year (by everyone, I mean actual basketball analysts and not ignorant fools on ISH), if Kobe had surgery on his pinky, the Lakers would be fighting to make the playoffs. Besides you have an obvious agenda behind your statements and that's probably why you got slammed.

[lilmarcgasol]

Since when does Playoffs have anything to do with being the best player during the regular season? You are an idiot and you just found yourself on the ignore list with the other idiots.
true mvp means leader of the lakers at all times dumpster child, not just the regular season when Kobe tries to coast and rely on his teammates more, yeh if you want regular season MVP i might give it to Pau despite Kobe averaging more points, playing better defense, being the number one playmaker but if you mean playoffs, or clutch games of regular seasn-my opinion when teams REAL MVPS shine through (see this is when Garnett stepped away and Pierce stood up) then Kobe still MVP

[Diesel J]

Ok so I did some research to back up my point. Bynum went down 35 games into the season. The Lakers from that time until they got Pau went 5-5 aka .500. They went from 25-11 (.694) (24-11 was the game he went down in) to 30-16 (.652) during that span. When they got Pau they went 27-9 after they got him, but I know that he got hurt for a few games. That brought their percentage back up to 695.

Without Pau the team would possibly have continued to play .500 ball and won 48 games. Bam all over you.

Great post:applause:


This must have gotten burried. For those of you that don't believe it go to the schedule and do the math your self. This is a big FU to everyone who thought I was an idiot for saying Pau saved the Lakers season last year.

:lol

[Mdog1]

Great post:applause:



:lol
Notice how it kind of shut up the people calling me an idiot? I put it on the second page, but it must have got moved before people read it. I deserve to dance on lilmarks grave when his account gets banned.

[lilmarcgasol]

Notice how it kind of shut up the people calling me an idiot? I put it on the second page, but it must have got moved before people read it. I deserve to dance on lilmarks grave when his account gets banned.
no u dont pau pau does good against bad competition documented fact what have u proved son nothing

[Showtime]

:oldlol: at this thread. Kobe has been playing like garbage and he STILL has a higher PER then Gasol, he still has better defensive numbers. Kobe is the Lakers' MVP unarguably. He's the guy who other teams game-plan to stop. He draws the doubles and triples. Kobe is a top 5 player, Pau isn't even top 10. No surprise that the Kobe haters all of a sudden became big Pau fans :oldlol: .
So you don't think if Gasol was featured more in the offense, and got 19 shots a game instead of just 12, that he would have a higher PER and numbers? You don't think his efforts in keeping the Lakers in games where Kobe struggles doesn't mean anything?

[lilmarcgasol]

So you don't think if Gasol was featured more in the offense, and got 19 shots a game instead of just 12, that he would have a higher PER and numbers? You don't think his efforts in keeping the Lakers in games where Kobe struggles doesn't mean anything?
when gasol has no pressure on him he can look like a top 3 bigman in the league, it's when the slightest sign of pressure comes he folds, yeh I dont think Gasol is feeling much pressure on him when he got Bynum, Odom, Bryant also being top scorers he plays his best, but um do you even watch lakers games do you see what gasol does and where he goes at the slightest sign of pressure? I dont either


its not like the team plans to only let Gasol get 12 shots a game or something, Pau just really isn't very aggressive and doesn't look for his shot that much yeah its smart team ball so cant fault him for that

[bdreason]

Pau is currently playing like the best player on the Lakers.

[Showtime]

when gasol has no pressure on him he can look like a top 3 bigman in the league, it's when the slightest sign of pressure comes he folds, yeh I dont think Gasol is feeling much pressure on him when he got Bynum, Odom, Bryant also being top scorers he plays his best, but um do you even watch lakers games do you see what gasol does and where he goes at the slightest sign of pressure? I dont either


its not like the team plans to only let Gasol get 12 shots a game or something, Pau just really isn't very aggressive and doesn't look for his shot that much yeah its smart team ball so cant fault him for that
The most recent loss against the Kings, Bynum, Odom, and Kobe weren't factors. The "pressure" wasn't there, because other than Pau, the only other player that got focused on was Kobe. Pau was consistently punishing Hawes inside, and was seeing help defenders down low. He was the one putting the team on his back for most of the game. And let's not forget he has been a franchise player and #1 option before, and been keyed on defensively for most of his career including international play. I don't doubt the talent on the Lakers helps Gasol, which is exactly why I think he should be given the ball more.

[LA_Showtime]

We'll see if he's the MVP of the Lakers once the playoffs begin. If he keeps up this production, then yes, he's the Lakers most important player. We know Kobe will bring it during the playoffs. The question is whether or not Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and company will join him.

[Jinxed]

Where does this myth that Gasol folds under pressure come from?

Did he fold under pressure in the gold medal game of the Olympics? No..he dominated Dwight Howard.

He put up decent numbers in the NBA finals last year..let's also remember that Boston is the best defensive team in the league and he had the DPOY guarding him.

[mhg88]

No, I think you are not wrong, I agree with your post, and Im going much farther by saying, IF he continue this, he should be considered atleast for the hall of fame. The guy is so consistent, scoring, rebounding, shot blocking with both weak and strong teams, held his own against Duncan in the playoffs.
I can't believe so-called analysts and harsh fans branded him as soft after the finals. After playing so well agains't Denver, Utah and Spurs, all of a sudden he is soft, forget the fact that every other Lakers forgot to defend and shoot the ball, it's all about Pau being soft.
If Pau is muscular and not slim, if yells/Growls/taunts other players, If he has 2 extra inches of vertical leap, if he market himself and be outspoken, he is a slam dunk for the hall of fame.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Nash-tastic]

I like Gasol, he's a solid and consistent player, can rebound,good down low, and has that mid range jumper, but I wouldn't call him the MVP of the Lakers, I don't think he has the impact on the team as much as Kobe, and I wish Gasol cuts his hair, WTF is with the fro

[Diesel J]

Gasol is the one that makes the Lakers offense fluid


18 pts on 56 FG% (12 FAPG)

80% FT shooting with a hight post and low post game

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2009.html

[NY-Knicks]

kobe demands lots of attention from the D. Kobe gets way more double-teams then Pau and he still puts up unbelievable numbers. And how would this team be playing without Kobe shutting down the other teams best player and scoring in bunches?
What would be the best team?

Lakers A
Fisher
Sasha
Walton
Pau
Bynum

who is defending the other teams gunner? walton :eek: ??
who can score frequently from the outside?
who can create for those big men?
who hits clutch shots?


lakers B
Fisher
Kobe
Walton
Lamar
Bynum

they are simply the team that was a contender in the beginning of 07-08.


I agree that Pau has done a lot for this team, but there is no point in denying that Kobe Bryant is the best player on this team.
come on, he's the reigning NBA MVP!!

[JJ81]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.

There wouldnt be a team to save without Kobe

[gpfanz]

Nope Kobe got bigger balls :banana:

[picc84]

Of course Pau is team MVP. If it wasnt for the attention he drew from the defense with the double and triple teaming, Kobe wouldn't be able to just catch and finish and work with the single coverage he sees as a result. If it wasnt for Gasols presence opening up the lane I doubt Kobe could get more than 25ppg. Its easy to score when the entire defense of the other team is planned around Pau.

And even still Kobe only shoots 48% this season with single coverage and the lane wide open from Gasol's presence, while Pau is shooting 57% being the entire focus of the defense with double and triple teams. AND still creating a lot of Kobe's shots for him, along with the rest of team.

Add in Gasol finishing the games for us, taking the clutch shots, etc. and its a no-brainer.

[KenneBell]

Of course Pau is team MVP. If it wasnt for the attention he drew from the defense with the double and triple teaming, Kobe wouldn't be able to just catch and finish and work with the single coverage he sees as a result. If it wasnt for Gasols presence opening up the lane I doubt Kobe could get more than 25ppg. Its easy to score when the entire defense of the other team is planned around Pau.

And even still Kobe only shoots 48% this season with single coverage and the lane wide open from Gasol's presence, while Pau is shooting 57% being the entire focus of the defense with double and triple teams. AND still creating a lot of Kobe's shots for him, along with the rest of team.

Add in Gasol finishing the games for us, taking the clutch shots, etc. and its a no-brainer.
:roll: :applause:

[vinsane01]

Of course Pau is team MVP. If it wasnt for the attention he drew from the defense with the double and triple teaming, Kobe wouldn't be able to just catch and finish and work with the single coverage he sees as a result. If it wasnt for Gasols presence opening up the lane I doubt Kobe could get more than 25ppg. Its easy to score when the entire defense of the other team is planned around Pau.

And even still Kobe only shoots 48% this season with single coverage and the lane wide open from Gasol's presence, while Pau is shooting 57% being the entire focus of the defense with double and triple teams. AND still creating a lot of Kobe's shots for him, along with the rest of team.

Add in Gasol finishing the games for us, taking the clutch shots, etc. and its a no-brainer.

Wow either youre being sarcastic or your a laker fan who dont like kobe very much. Coz IMO no laker fan thinks that kobe is no.2. :D

To answer the question though, Its really tough to call. I say they are equal in terms of impact that they bring to the team.

[picc84]

How is their impact equal when the only reason anyone gets any open shots is because Pau is breaking down the defense and drawing extra defenders, sometimes when he's barely broken the half-court line? And on top of that shooting a higher % while seeing more defensive pressure?

Pau is the only reason Kobe gets to go one-on-one at his leisure, if he even needs do that. Half the time he just spots up or cuts to the rim and Pau finds him over the double/triple teams for the easy finish. Lets not go overboard with the kobe love here. He's a good player, but he has half the responsibilities Gasol does, and does them half as well.

[RidonKs]

Luke would be the MVP, he just isn't being used the right way.

[EastBayFuNk510]

Of course Pau is team MVP. If it wasnt for the attention he drew from the defense with the double and triple teaming, Kobe wouldn't be able to just catch and finish and work with the single coverage he sees as a result. If it wasnt for Gasols presence opening up the lane I doubt Kobe could get more than 25ppg. Its easy to score when the entire defense of the other team is planned around Pau.

And even still Kobe only shoots 48% this season with single coverage and the lane wide open from Gasol's presence, while Pau is shooting 57% being the entire focus of the defense with double and triple teams. AND still creating a lot of Kobe's shots for him, along with the rest of team.

Add in Gasol finishing the games for us, taking the clutch shots, etc. and its a no-brainer.


:wtf: Wow...ive seen alot of dumb post and i understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion but ...WOW..just wow

[TmacsRockets]

Pau and Kobe's impact is the same.

Kobe's PER = 25.2
Pau's PER = 25.2

Kobe's Win Shares = 5.5
Pau's Win Shares = 5.5

Kobe's Offensive Win Shares = 3.9
Pau's Offensive Win Shares = 3.9

Kobe's Offensive Rating = 116
Pau's Offensive Rating = 126

[Sharas]

How is their impact equal when the only reason anyone gets any open shots is because Pau is breaking down the defense and drawing extra defenders, sometimes when he's barely broken the half-court line? And on top of that shooting a higher % while seeing more defensive pressure?

Pau is the only reason Kobe gets to go one-on-one at his leisure, if he even needs do that. Half the time he just spots up or cuts to the rim and Pau finds him over the double/triple teams for the easy finish. Lets not go overboard with the kobe love here. He's a good player, but he has half the responsibilities Gasol does, and does them half as well.

i know it's sarcastic, but it works the other way also.

no matter how you look at it, pau is a huge offensive threat in this league. he spaces the floor because he's money from anywhere inside the arc, he is a handful for anyone in the low post and is a huge threat facing up and off the pick'n'roll also. to top it, he's one of fastest seven footers in the L and a great passer too.

i won't go as far as trolls do and say he's the lakers MVP, but don't think he doesn't open things up for kobe tremendously. as someone pointed out, just look at the lakers record since trading for him.

[picc84]

i know it's sarcastic, but it works the other way also.

no matter how you look at it, pau is a huge offensive threat in this league. he spaces the floor because he's money from anywhere inside the arc, he is a handful for anyone in the low post and is a huge threat facing up and off the pick'n'roll also. to top it, he's one of fastest seven footers in the L and a great passer too.

Of course, I didn't know any of that. Hell I still thought we had Kwame Brown on the team. This is good news.


i won't go as far as trolls do and say he's the lakers MVP, but don't think he doesn't open things up for kobe tremendously. as someone pointed out, just look at the lakers record since trading for him.

Of course he's the Lakers MVP. Clearly, he allows Kobe to operate with a freedom that he would undoubtedly struggle to be even a top 10 player without. People act like you could take Gasol off the team and he'd put up 35ppg or something. He should thank his lucky stars for Pau and the fact that he never sees double and triple teams anymore because of him. Especially not every game.

But what would I know, i've only seen every game both of them have played since they ever joined the franchise.

[Sharas]

why the sarcasm? i'm perfectly sure kobe doesn't really miss the days when he scored 35 ppg and got ousted in the first round.

[Allstar24]

How is their impact equal when the only reason anyone gets any open shots is because Pau is breaking down the defense and drawing extra defenders, sometimes when he's barely broken the half-court line? And on top of that shooting a higher % while seeing more defensive pressure?

Pau is the only reason Kobe gets to go one-on-one at his leisure, if he even needs do that. Half the time he just spots up or cuts to the rim and Pau finds him over the double/triple teams for the easy finish. Lets not go overboard with the kobe love here. He's a good player, but he has half the responsibilities Gasol does, and does them half as well.
Nice :lol

Well if these boneheads took the time to actually watch our games, their opinions would matter. I think both Kobe and Pau help each other's game tremendously, they've been a perfect fit from day one. There's a reason why Pau had his career best FG% playing with Kobe and there's a reason why Kobe won his first MVP playing with Pau. Both players make each other better. Pau has been our most consistent and efficient player but if you think Kobe isn't the most valuable/dangerous player on this team, you clearly don't watch Laker basketball.

[TmacsRockets]

Nice :lol

Well if these boneheads took the time to actually watch our games, their opinions would matter. I think both Kobe and Pau help each other's game tremendously, they've been a perfect fit from day one. There's a reason why Pau had his career best FG% playing with Kobe and there's a reason why Kobe won his first MVP playing with Pau. Both players make each other better. Pau has been our most consistent and efficient player but if you think Kobe isn't the most valuable/dangerous player on this team, you clearly don't watch Laker basketball.

Pau and Kobe's impact is the same.

Kobe's PER = 25.2
Pau's PER = 25.2

Kobe's Win Shares = 5.5
Pau's Win Shares = 5.5

Kobe's Offensive Win Shares = 3.9
Pau's Offensive Win Shares = 3.9

Kobe's Offensive Rating = 116
Pau's Offensive Rating = 126

Shows that Gasol is just as dangerous and even more so in most areas

[picc84]

why the sarcasm? i'm perfectly sure kobe doesn't really miss the days when he scored 35 ppg and got ousted in the first round.

Is that your point?

You sound ridiculous (at least to me) describing Pau's game as if I don't know it like the back of my hand by now, and then saying he opens things up for Kobe tremendously when 1. He doesn't, and Kobe still sees regular double and triple teams from the paint to near halfcourt, and 2. Kobe clearly is unreliant on Pau's presence to create and score. Kobe has done twice as much for Pau's offensive game as vice versa. Probably more. There is a clear order of benefactor/beneficiary when we play. And it isn't Pau/Kobe.

Pau's presence is vital to the team because he's the second scorer Odom can't be, because he passes well from the post, and because he's an underrated defender and rebounder. I appreciate what he does as much as anyone. So I really don't get it when you try to lecture me on what his true value is when I live, breathe, eat, and sleep Laker basketball every day of the year. If you didn't think Pau was the MVP of the team, you really had no reason to respond to me. You basically were like "but hey, he's a good player". Well, no sh!t.

[Sharas]

If you didn't think Pau was the MVP of the team, you really had no reason to respond to me. You basically were like "but hey, he's a good player". Well, no sh!t.

sorry, that's bull$hit logic. it's the f*cking message board. am i maybe not allowed to comment if i don't disagree with you?

[picc84]

Of course you're allowed to respond to me. I said there wasnt really any reason for you to do so. Did you really need to explain that Pau Gasol is a good basketball player? I just don't get why people feel the need to create arguments out of nothing.

[ihatetimthomas]

Kobe is and always be the most valuable player to the Lakers. They are going to sink quickly without him. But has he been our best player thus far? Probably not. Gasol has been extremely efficient and our most consistent player so far. But I do not rank him higher than Kobe.

Without Kobe, this team struggles. As much as Gasol has helped Kobe get open looks, Kobe has done the same. Its a give and take relationship. They both work much better with each other, but in the end this is Kobes team. In the playoffs, you need a scorer of Kobes caliber. Gasol cant take over a game quite like Kobe can.

I think this year, Gasol has been the better player. But that doesnt make him more valuable in my book. They are both almost equally important but I still have to go with Kobe as our most valuable player

[brandonislegend]

Pau and Kobe's impact is the same.

Kobe's PER = 25.2
Pau's PER = 25.2

Kobe's Win Shares = 5.5
Pau's Win Shares = 5.5

Kobe's Offensive Win Shares = 3.9
Pau's Offensive Win Shares = 3.9

Kobe's Offensive Rating = 116
Pau's Offensive Rating = 126

Shows that Gasol is just as dangerous and even more so in most areas

yes cause numbers = basketball

your such a troll and becoming one of the worst posters on this forum by the day.

[TmacsRockets]

yes cause numbers = basketball

your such a troll and becoming one of the worst posters on this forum by the day.


:wtf:
Yeah because using actual numbers and results is trolling, but giving a biased ass opinion is the way to go and makes you a good poster. :roll:

[Diesel J]

33 pts 18 rbs tonight...he sucks alright:oldlol:

[GMW]

33 pts 18 rbs tonight...he sucks alright:oldlol:
What's the point you're trying to make and how come you didn't post here after yesterday's game? :rolleyes:

Everyone knows he's a damn good player but clearly not the Lakers' MVP.

[YAWN]

33 pts 18 rbs tonight...he sucks alright:oldlol:

gee i wonder what agenda you are trying to carry out with this bump :confusedshrug:


****ing loser

[Diesel J]

^^ yall mad?:oldlol:

I posted in a thread yesterday or the other day about Gasol where someone asked if Paul has "turned the corner". How can an all star who has already lead a team to 50 wins just now be "turning the corner"?

[YAWN]

^^ yall mad?:oldlol:

I posted in a thread yesterday or the other day about Gasol where someone asked if Paul has "turned the corner". How can an all star who has already lead a team to 50 wins just now be "turning the corner"?

just pointing out the obvious

[lilmarcgasol]

^^ yall mad?:oldlol:

I posted in a thread yesterday or the other day about Gasol where someone asked if Paul has "turned the corner". How can an all star who has already lead a team to 50 wins just now be "turning the corner"?
you talking about chris paul, whos paul?

I meant mentally turning the corner, from a crappy softy choker to a clutch tough beast

[Jacks3]

33 pts 18 rbs tonight...he sucks alright:oldlol:
Against the Warriors.:roll:
I hope you're not trying to suggest he's the Lakers MVP. Jordan groupies :oldlol:

[godofgods]

Pau has been the Lakers' MVP since he joined. Let's face the facts fools, without Gasol, the Fakers are at best an 8th seed in the west, and gets bounced in the 1st round.

Those who fail to see this are either stupid or racist or Kobe's gay lovers or a mixture of those three.

[Allstar24]

Pau has been the Lakers' MVP since he joined. Let's face the facts fools, without Gasol, the Fakers are at best an 8th seed in the west, and gets bounced in the 1st round.
Agreed. I also believe Mo Williams is the Cavs true MVP, using your logic.

[Chrono90]

Kobe Bryant 24/5/4 on 46% shooting

Pau Gasol 18/9/3 on 57% shooting!



just remember kobe is actually 27/5/4

[EastBayFuNk510]

Pau has been the Lakers' MVP since he joined. Let's face the facts fools, without Gasol, the Fakers are at best an 8th seed in the west, and gets bounced in the 1st round.

Those who fail to see this are either stupid or racist or Kobe's gay lovers or a mixture of those three.


Thats a lil extreme dont you think:confusedshrug: ..no?

[TmacsRockets]

just remember kobe is actually 27/5/4

Gasol's Total Win Shares = 5.9
Kobe's Total Win Shares = 5.9


Gasol's Offensive Win Shares = 4.3
Kobe's Offensive Win Shares = 4.2


Gasol is equally carrying the team.

[Diesel J]

Against the Warriors.:roll:
I hope you're not trying to suggest he's the Lakers MVP. Jordan groupies :oldlol:


I never said he was the Lakers MVP but it's Pau Gasol for sure that makes them a 50+ win/elite team. He has equal impact on offense as Kobe.

You disagree with this?


Gasol's Total Win Shares = 5.9
Kobe's Total Win Shares = 5.9


Gasol's Offensive Win Shares = 4.3
Kobe's Offensive Win Shares = 4.2


Gasol is equally carrying the team.

[White Mamba]

I never said he was the Lakers MVP but it's Pau Gasol for sure that makes them a 50+ win/elite team. He has equal impact on offense as Kobe.

You disagree with this?

The Lakers were the top of the west when they traded for Gasol, they already play 50 W rate and beat great teams on the road!

Gasol is going to take more shots when Odom is out and make better numbers but it's Kobe is team.

and for the Gasol allstar or not, here is Kobe -

"He's an All-Star," Bryant said. "He's one of the best players in the world.

END:applause:

[GMW]

I never said he was the Lakers MVP but it's Pau Gasol for sure that makes them a 50+ win/elite team. He has equal impact on offense as Kobe.

You disagree with this?
Clearly a team is going to be a lot better when you switch a scrub for an all-star, but that doesn't mean Gasol is even close to being as important as Kobe.

And no, their impact on offense is not equal.

[ihatetimthomas]

Pau has been the Lakers' MVP since he joined. Let's face the facts fools, without Gasol, the Fakers are at best an 8th seed in the west, and gets bounced in the 1st round.

Those who fail to see this are either stupid or racist or Kobe's gay lovers or a mixture of those three.

And where do you think the Lakers are without Kobe? Do you think a gasol led team is going anywhere? You saw Memphis, they didnt even win a single playoff game led by him.

Gasol's life is easier downlow with the presence of Kobe. Otherwise he would be double and tripled constantly. He wouldnt get the looks he does.

Im not taking away from Gasol and I know how much he has helped the Lakers. But if you are going to call out Kobe and say they are merely an 8th seed w/o Gasol, then you gotta look at the otherside as well. Gasol has been the Lakers best player this year and most consistent in my opinion. But Kobe is still more valuable to this team come playoff time bc Gasol cant lead by himself. They need each other. Without either I would say yes they are an 8th seed team.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Pau has been the Lakers' MVP since he joined. Let's face the facts fools, without Gasol, the Fakers are at best an 8th seed in the west, and gets bounced in the 1st round.

Those who fail to see this are either stupid or racist or Kobe's gay lovers or a mixture of those three.

if it was possible to be embarassed by internet BS, then you should be feeling mortified.

[Mdog1]

if it was possible to be embarassed by internet BS, then you should be feeling mortified.
He really is right though. Without PG last year the Lakers would have been at best a 8 seed, and possibly not even in the playoffs. So why should he be embarassed? Also when Pau has a bad, or misses a game the Lakers don't do nearly as well. Now the same would be said for Kobe obviously, but without PG last year Kobe has no MVP, possibly not even in discussion for best in the league (although doubtful, LAL homers would make sure of that) and no finals appearance to think of. Oh yeah and this year of course the Lakers wouldn't be tied for 1st in the league that is for sure.

[Jacks3]

And where do you think the Lakers are without Kobe? Do you think a gasol led team is going anywhere? You saw Memphis, they didnt even win a single playoff game led by him.

Gasol's life is easier downlow with the presence of Kobe. Otherwise he would be double and tripled constantly. He wouldnt get the looks he does.

Im not taking away from Gasol and I know how much he has helped the Lakers. But if you are going to call out Kobe and say they are merely an 8th seed w/o Gasol, then you gotta look at the otherside as well. Gasol has been the Lakers best player this year and most consistent in my opinion. But Kobe is still more valuable to this team come playoff time bc Gasol cant lead by himself. They need each other. Without either I would say yes they are an 8th seed team.
No. How has he been better when Kobe has better stats and impacts the game more.:rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

I never said he was the Lakers MVP but it's Pau Gasol for sure that makes them a 50+ win/elite team. He has equal impact on offense as Kobe.

You disagree with this?
Nope. Kobe draws much more defensive attention and has better offensive numbers.

[Jacks3]

Lakers last year before Bynum injury and no Gasol-27-11, 1st in the West. Idiots.

[KenneBell]

To answer, no he's not. Your most valuable is almost always your best player. The #2 might still be very good and push the team over the top but when it comes down to it, this team needs Kobe on the court.

[ihatetimthomas]

No. How has he been better when Kobe has better stats and impacts the game more.:rolleyes:

He has been the Lakers most consistent player this year. In the wins and losses.

[Jacks3]

He has been the Lakers most consistent player this year. In the wins and losses.
Maybe, but he's not the Lakers best or biggest impact player and it's not even arguable.

[JellyBean]

Nope. Pau is putting up great numbers, which is a huge plus, but to think that he is the true MVP of the Lakers right now....:oldlol:

We all know the straw that stirs the Lakers drink and it is #24. As he goes, so does the Lakers.

[YAWN]

He really is right though. Without PG last year the Lakers would have been at best a 8 seed, and possibly not even in the playoffs. So why should he be embarassed? Also when Pau has a bad, or misses a game the Lakers don't do nearly as well. Now the same would be said for Kobe obviously, but without PG last year Kobe has no MVP, possibly not even in discussion for best in the league (although doubtful, LAL homers would make sure of that) and no finals appearance to think of. Oh yeah and this year of course the Lakers wouldn't be tied for 1st in the league that is for sure.

so is Mo Williams the reason the Cavs are playing so well this year and thus the true MVP of the team?

[Godfather]

so is Mo Williams the reason the Cavs are playing so well this year and thus the true MVP of the team?

The gap b/w LeBron and Wade is much bigger than Kobe and Pau (Mo isn't an all star nor is he the second best player on the Cavs).

But I agree with your point, no way in hell is Kobe not the MVP of this team.

[ihatetimthomas]

Maybe, but he's not the Lakers best or biggest impact player and it's not even arguable.

Im not even trying to say Gasol is the MVP or the mosre impactful player. I stated Kobe is the Lakers MVP. Gasol has just been playing better and more consistent in my opinion.

[picc84]

He has been the Lakers most consistent player this year. In the wins and losses.

I keep seeing people say this. Maybe being the second option and having the other teams defenses planned around the first has something to do with his consistency. It doesn't mean anything except we can rely on him to do his job effectively night in and out as long as we have 24 out there occupying the brunt of the oppositions focus.

Its nice to know we have a guy who we can count on for a certain contribution every night but "consistency" doesn't really mean much. We never have a better chance to win with him than with Kobe.

[picc84]

Im not even trying to say Gasol is the MVP or the mosre impactful player. I stated Kobe is the Lakers MVP. Gasol has just been playing better and more consistent in my opinion.

How is he not the MVP if he's been playing better? :confusedshrug: Which I completely disagree with, btw.

[ihatetimthomas]

I keep seeing people say this. Maybe being the second option and having the other teams defenses planned around the first has something to do with his consistency. It doesn't mean anything except we can rely on him to do his job effectively night in and out as long as we have 24 out there occupying the brunt of the oppositions focus.

Its nice to know we have a guy who we can count on for a certain contribution every night but "consistency" doesn't really mean much. We never have a better chance to win with him than with Kobe.

yea i know all that. I never said with Gasol we had a better shot at winning

[Mdog1]

Lakers last year before Bynum injury and no Gasol-27-11, 1st in the West. Idiots.
Ok what is your point? Without Bynum and PG they were 5-5. Spread that through the rest of the 82 games and that is 17 more losses. That is 33 losses or in other words not good enough to get into the playoffs in the West (49-33). Plus not only that the Lakers may have lost to some of those playoff teams making the West look better than it already had (say add 1-2 wins to 3-4 teams).

Oh yeah forgot to add idiot at the end.

[Jacks3]

Ok what is your point? Without Bynum and PG they were 5-5. Spread that through the rest of the 82 games and that is 17 more losses. That is 33 losses or in other words not good enough to get into the playoffs in the West (49-33). Plus not only that the Lakers may have lost to some of those playoff teams making the West look better than it already had (say add 1-2 wins to 3-4 teams).

Oh yeah forgot to add idiot at the end.
Why are you extrapolating what the Lakers record would be without Gasol and Bynum when my post was about their record without Gasol? Idiot.

[picc84]

So what you're saying is teams are better when they have more good players, and worse when they have less.

Basketball analysts would pay good money for that kind insight. You should work for ESPN. You could co-write a column with Jemele Hill.

[Jacks3]

Im not even trying to say Gasol is the MVP or the mosre impactful player. I stated Kobe is the Lakers MVP. Gasol has just been playing better and more consistent in my opinion.
Except he hasn't been better.

[Diesel J]

Why are you extrapolating what the Lakers record would be without Gasol and Bynum when my post was about their record without Gasol? Idiot.


Lakers being lead by Kobe w/o Bynum = .500

Gasol to the Lakers = saved the Lakers season = no title contention hopes

[Diesel J]

so is Mo Williams the reason the Cavs are playing so well this year and thus the true MVP of the team?


Cavs won back to back 50 wins season before last seasons "down year" of 45/47 games...

[Jacks3]

Lakers being lead by Kobe w/o Bynum = .500

Gasol to the Lakers = saved the Lakers season = no title contention hopes
Lakers without their 2nd and 3rd best players are worse? Duh.
What a retarded argument. Gasol was just another piece to the puzzle. Kobe is clearly the engine and by far the best player.
/thread.

[Scott Pippen]

Gasol last year was MVA to the Lakers. "Most Valuable Addition".

MVP has many different meanings to many different people. But at the end of the day the team goes as far as Kobe goes. End of story. However do not make the mistake of thinking Gasol is "soft overrated trash." Gasol is a very valuable piece and can step up when needed.:applause:

[Mdog1]

Why are you extrapolating what the Lakers record would be without Gasol and Bynum when my post was about their record without Gasol? Idiot.
The post I quoted clearly says that their record without Gasol was 27-11, and without Bynum they were 5-5 that is .500. They would not have made the playoffs, you most likely wouldn't even be a Kobe fan and we wouldn't be having this dumb conversation.


Gasol last year was MVA to the Lakers. "Most Valuable Addition".

MVP has many different meanings to many different people. But at the end of the day the team goes as far as Kobe goes. End of story. However do not make the mistake of thinking Gasol is "soft overrated trash." Gasol is a very valuable piece and can step up when needed.

I agree very much with this. He saved thier season, and without him they would be the same team as last year, except Kobe a little older and a little more tired from having to do everything.

[Scott Pippen]

Lakers without their 2nd and 3rd best players are worse? Duh.
What a retarded argument. Gasol was just another piece to the puzzle. Kobe is clearly the engine and by far the best player.
/thread.
All players should be pieces to a puzzle on championship team. The question is who is the most important piece. Yes Kobe is the top player and most important piece but do not portray Pau as Kendrick Perkins type of role player.:applause:

[Jacks3]

The post I quoted clearly says that their record without Gasol was 27-11, and without Bynum they were 5-5 that is .500. They would not have made the playoffs, you most likely wouldn't even be a Kobe fan and we wouldn't be having this dumb conversation.




The Lakers last year with out Gasol but with Bynum were 1st in the West. That's the point. Of course they would struggle with both their 2nd and 3rd best players out. Friggin Cavs band wagoners..

[Jacks3]

Lakers without Gasol= Still a 55 win caliber team as long as everyone is healthy and Bynum plays like he did before the injury.

[Mdog1]

Lakers without Gasol= Still a 55 win caliber team as long as everyone is healthy and Bynum plays like he did before the injury.
The Lakers without Gasol sure they could have won 50 +, but they wouldn't have done it with Bynum. Bynum was injured. Although i'm sure that if you had of been a fan of the Lakers longer than the start of the season you would have known that. Any way welcome to the ignore list. Say hello to lilmarcgasol.

[amfirst]

U guys are idiots, Paul is a good player, but u forget the part where Paul dissappears to teams with players the same size and Kobe draws the doubles to get him a one on one situation, sure he can own teams full of scrubs, but when he plays Orlando or the Celts he'll go into hiding after he turns the ball over in the post.

MVP should be able to carry the team against the best opponents and Kobe consitently does this against good teams. Without Kobe, Gasol would be constantly doubled team like Kobe.

[LAShow24]

Gasol's Total Win Shares = 5.9
Kobe's Total Win Shares = 5.9


Gasol's Offensive Win Shares = 4.3
Kobe's Offensive Win Shares = 4.2


Gasol is equally carrying the team.

Didn't know that.
:eek:

[Diesel J]

Vs Boston tonight

24 pts on 10-14 FG and 14 rbs

...and Kobe stans have the nerves to complain about him:confusedshrug:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Some Lakers fans were begging Mitch to trade Pau Gasol after the loss to Charlotte Bobcats...
:lol

[OldSchoolBBall]

Vs Boston tonight

24 pts on 10-14 FG and 14 rbs

...and Kobe stans have the nerves to complain about him:confusedshrug:

Not only that, but the Celts were petrified of driving in for layups on him all game. They'd get inside and pull it back out. Dude may not be a world-beating shotblocker, but guys are scared of him. He just stands there with his gumby arms straight up and his 9-foot wingspan and stops people from taking layups.

[YAWN]

Vs Boston tonight

24 pts on 10-14 FG and 14 rbs

...and Kobe stans have the nerves to complain about him:confusedshrug:

you seem to bump alot of laker threads after their games.

second favorite team? :confusedshrug:

[Lakers13]

Some Lakers fans were begging Mitch to trade Pau Gasol after the loss to Charlotte Bobcats...
:lol


Kobe d*ck riders...not Lakers fans

[Smokee]

U guys are idiots, Paul is a good player, but u forget the part where Paul dissappears to teams with players the same size and Kobe draws the doubles to get him a one on one situation, sure he can own teams full of scrubs, but when he plays Orlando or the Celts he'll go into hiding after he turns the ball over in the post.

MVP should be able to carry the team against the best opponents and Kobe consitently does this against good teams. Without Kobe, Gasol would be constantly doubled team like Kobe.


yeah Kobe was sure double teamed jacking shots up with Pierce's hand in his face, and only Pierce :rolleyes:

[LakersLaLaLand]

Problem Ga-solved!!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/ayecuh26/lakergif.gif

[Micku]

Problem Ga-solved!!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/ayecuh26/lakergif.gif

I never get tired of that.

[JJ81]

Pau should have been MVP last season. He saved the Lakers year.

But without Kobe last year they'd just have been another boarder playoff team

[JJ81]

Kobe Bryant 24/5/4 on 46% shooting

Pau Gasol 18/9/3 on 57% shooting!

What are these stats for?

[stephanieg]

It seems like when Gasol plays poorly LA has no chance. When Kobe plays poorly it's close but they still win a lot because some random roleplayer steps up as well (Like Odom tonight). When both Gasol and Kobe play well the other team is massacred. I wish they did more two man action like at the end of the Christmas game.

[starface]

honeslty, kobe is a glorified version of allen iverson.

he's just in it to jack up shots and be the center of attention. always trying to be the hero and taking the impossible shot rather than finding a teammate for the open one. yeah he has a much more clean-cut image and maybe he has a much better basketball IQ (iverson has none) but what good is it when he never uses it? basketball is a team game. its not about 1 swingman taking all the shots. kobe always wants to be "the guy" rather than be 1 of 5 players on a winning team. especially when it comes to overtime. he was 0-4 in overtime tonite, and why? because he took the most ridiculous shots instead of PASSING THE BALL.

kobe is overrated because he's a swingman and they are the most exciting position to watch. in reality theres probably 5 or 6 bigmen in the league that i'd take over kobe hands down, and Pau is one of them.

[211269]

Gasol is what really makes this team go. Of course Kobe too but the Lakers are something ridiculous like 67-24 with Gasol in the starting lineup. Anyone know for sure what it is? hes such a great, smart all around player and I hope he stays in LA till he retires.

[Diesel J]

Do you think that Gasoft would be getting ALL of these wide-open looks and single coverage if Kobe was not his teammate? :oldlol:


Does Kobe shoot 48Fg% w/o Gasol to take some pressure off of him? I bet KObe's Fg% with Gasol dating back from last season to now is Kobe's highest FG% rate.

[Younggrease]

kobe is overrated because he's a swingman and they are the most exciting position to watch. in reality theres probably 5 or 6 bigmen in the league that i'd take over kobe hands down, and Pau is one of them.

Im sure you would have said this 3 years ago when he was on Memphis....:rolleyes:

[Kappy]

Is Pau Gasol the true MVP of the Lakers right now?

Ummm, NO!!!

[VCMVP1551]

Kobe is the Lakers MVP, Gasol however is probably the best second option in the league and they form the best duo.

Gasol is pretty much a first option talent, but he's unseflish enough that he like sbeing a second option and he may actually prefer that role. That's the perfect player with Kobe who wants to lead a team and take the last shot.

Right now the 2 of them are playing incredibly in this 5 game winning streak.

Kobe- 35.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 5.0 apg, 48.9 FG%, 40.0 3P%, 84.4 FT%, 38.0 mpg
Pau- 26.2 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 3.8 apg, 67.1 FG%, 80.5 FT%, 41.8 mpg

The 2 players complement eachother perfectly. I can never understand why Laker fans complain about Pau. He produces a lot and he'll play any role. When Bynum started to dominate, pau had no problem being the 3rd option. Now when thye need him to produce more he averages 26, 12 and 4 as the second option. Back in Memphis he was the first option and he led the team to 50 win seasons and playoff berths. When the Lakers need him to play center with Bynum out he plays it as well as almost anyone in the league, but when they need him to be a PF with Bynum healthy, he excels at that and makes the all-star team.

Pau is also probably the best passing big man in the league, one of the 3-5 best low post scorers and a very solid shooter for a big man.

Gasol was a steal and the perfect sidekick for Kobe. Laker fans should be thanking god that they got him for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenon and Marc Gasol.

[Allstar24]

Kobe is the Lakers MVP, Gasol however is probably the best second option in the league and they form the best duo.

Gasol is pretty much a first option talent, but he's unseflish enough that he like sbeing a second option and he may actually prefer that role. That's the perfect player with Kobe who wants to lead a team and take the last shot.
+1


The 2 players complement eachother perfectly. I can never understand why Laker fans complain about Pau.
Anyone who complains about Pau is not a Laker fan, period. The complaining most likely comes from fans of rival teams who are jealous that we stole him from Memphis. I can't blame them though...who wouldn't want a tremendously skilled and unselfish player like Pau on their team?

[iggy>]

gasol and mvp in the same sentence? :no:

[Showtime]

gasol and mvp in the same sentence? :no:
MVP of the LAKERS, not league. Read the title.

[iggy>]

MVP of the LAKERS, not league. Read the title.
thats my point, gasol isnt the mvp of anything.

[picc84]

Laker fans complain about Pau the same way every fan of every team in the NBA complains about the star players of their team. Anyone who thinks criticism of stars from the fans is unique to LAL is a moron.

[Jasun]

kobe bashing thread in disguise.

[Showtime]

kobe bashing thread in disguise.
lol why so insecure? Not everything is about Kobe. Talking about a player's impact on their team is different. Pau does a LOT of things that matter a great deal. He's a tremendous passer (possibly the best on the team), and having that in the post in the triangle is a great asset. He's very unselfish. He's not worried about his touches, even though he should get more because he can beat almost anybody at his position (and proved it with the Grizz). He's also a good rebounder and despite the criticisms of being soft, he can still block shots and defend the post well from the PF position. Why is it such a stretch to think Pau is more valuable to LA than Kobe?

[Jasun]

lol why so insecure? Not everything is about Kobe. Talking about a player's impact on their team is different. Pau does a LOT of things that matter a great deal. He's a tremendous passer (possibly the best on the team), and having that in the post in the triangle is a great asset. He's very unselfish. He's not worried about his touches, even though he should get more because he can beat almost anybody at his position (and proved it with the Grizz). He's also a good rebounder and despite the criticisms of being soft, he can still block shots and defend the post well from the PF position. Why is it such a stretch to think Pau is more valuable to LA than Kobe?

its fine to think he is the lakers mvp. he is a good player, and the lakers are lucky to have him, but its obvious this thread is to intentionally stir the pot and discredit kobe.

[eliteballer]

You guys don't understand something. The Celtics gear their defense to focus on Kobe. If Kobe's not on the floor Gasol isnt getting those ISO's, putbacks, and easy cuts to the basket.

[VCMVP1551]

Laker fans complain about Pau the same way every fan of every team in the NBA complains about the star players of their team. Anyone who thinks criticism of stars from the fans is unique to LAL is a moron.

What I was referring to was when there were quite a few Laker(or Kobe) fans in the all-star threads saying that no way Gasol deserved to be an all-star. Or the fans who say that the Lakers would be better off without Gasol.

[The_Yearning]

I see he's developed a little swag to his game...juking KG and Perkin...complaining to the refs...getting props from his teammates...this guy finally got some swag to his skills....

[picc84]

I've seen Laker fans say we'd be better off without Kobe. I've seen laker haters say we'd be better off without Kobe. People say stupid things.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

lol why so insecure? Not everything is about Kobe. Talking about a player's impact on their team is different. Pau does a LOT of things that matter a great deal. He's a tremendous passer (possibly the best on the team), and having that in the post in the triangle is a great asset. He's very unselfish. He's not worried about his touches, even though he should get more because he can beat almost anybody at his position (and proved it with the Grizz). He's also a good rebounder and despite the criticisms of being soft, he can still block shots and defend the post well from the PF position. Why is it such a stretch to think Pau is more valuable to LA than Kobe?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$END OF FCKING THREAD$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[DGallinari_8]

Yes, yes he is.

[Showtime]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$END OF FCKING THREAD$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I assumed you were smart enough to understand this discussion didn't go outside the court. Of course Kobe is a box office draw and probably the only reason why many fans show up.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

:wtf:

[omarnyc]

yeah gasol is the mvp of the lakers, if you take him off that team they are back to kobe and his mediocre supporting cast.just look at it this way, what is kobe doing that he hasnt always done? the difference is gasol.

[Showtime]

Kobe has done what as the best player without Pau? First round exit. Pau has done what as the best player without Kobe? First round exit. Both have taken their teams to the same place. Together, they made the finals. Why is Kobe so much more valuable? Both do a lot for their team. I think what Pau does is highly underrated.

[barne100]

like when kobe fouled out of the game about a week ago... the lakers basically imploded.

ish is embarrassing these days. it hurts my brain thinking up arguments you guys might understand. it's like talking evolution with a brain dead christian.

[Showtime]

like when kobe fouled out of the game about a week ago... the lakers basically imploded.

ish is embarrassing these days. it hurts my brain thinking up arguments you guys might understand. it's like talking evolution with a brain dead christian.
How many times this season has Kobe either struggled, or been on the bench and Pau has helped the team win? It's a two way street. One game doesn't make your argument.

[Jacks3]

Kobe is on a whole other level player as a player. Pau benefits more from Kobe then Kobe does him...its not even close. Theres a reason Pau is hardly seeing any doubles anymore. A reason Pau ended up getting the GW dunk last nigh: The Celtics trapped Kobe. Exact same **** happened on Christmas. Kobe is a better defensive player. Kobe is more clutch. Kobe is more productive. There's literally nothing Pau does better then Kobe. Anyone who thinks Pau is the MVP of the Lakers is a moron.
I agree. This is clearly a hate thread. How anybody can think Pau is the MVP of a team with perhaps the best player in the world is beyond me-especially when Kobe has won 2 consecutive player of the month awards and is having one of the best seasons of his career.:rolleyes:

[Diesel J]

That doesn't make him MVP.Thats like saying Mo Williams is the mVP of the Cavs. How could you be the MVP when you have a player on your team decisively better then you. :oldlol: at the haters.

Gasol has basically an equal impact as KObe for the Lakers great record.

[1~Gibson~1]

Is Pau Gasol the true MVP of the Lakers right now?No, but he's a very important part of the Lakers' offense

[1~Gibson~1]

Equal impact? When Kobe has been better offensively and defensively this season.:oldlol: You Bron nut-riders are embarrassing.i dont think DJ likes lebron :no:

[kobesabi]

No. Whenever Kobe sits out, and Pau, LO, Fish, and etc out there, they don't always holdup the lead. When Pau sits out, Kobe and the gang can still maintain the lead. No doubt Pau is important, but he would be the next candidate in the team to get MVP.

[amfirst]

No. Whenever Kobe sits out, and Pau, LO, Fish, and etc out there, they don't always holdup the lead. When Pau sits out, Kobe and the gang can still maintain the lead. No doubt Pau is important, but he would be the next candidate in the team to get MVP.

Right, like when Kobe got foul out by the Bobcats, the whole Lakers squad went to the s14itters. Kobe is the heart of the team even if he has a off night, he puts so much pressure on the defense that his teammates get good looks.

[Diesel J]

Equal impact? When Kobe has been better offensively and defensively this season.:oldlol: You Bron nut-riders are embarrassing.

Offensive Win Shares

1. LeBron James-CLE -7.7
2. Chris Paul-NOH --------7.5
3. Pau Gasol-LAL --------6.3
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL --------6.3
5. Brandon Roy-POR --------5.7


Win Shares

1. LeBron James-CLE --11.6
2. Chris Paul-NOH ---------10.2
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL --------8.4
4. Dwight Howard-ORL -8.4
5. Pau Gasol-LAL ---------8.3



Offensive Rating

1. Pau Gasol-LAL ---------126.9
2. Chris Paul-NOH ----------125.4
3. Jose Calderon-TOR --124.3
4. Carl Landry-HOU --------123.1
5. Ray Allen-BOS --------122.5

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html

Gasol:bowdown:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Gasol has basically an equal impact as KObe for the Lakers great record.

in the same way that Mo Williams has had an equal impact as Lebron.

[1~Gibson~1]

PER-25.3 Kobe
22.2 -Gasol

Defensive PER
Kobe-13.7
Gasol-15.8

Clutch play:Kobe blows Gasol way.
Defensive attention drawn:Kobe blows Gasol away.

Scoring-Kobe
Defense-Kobe
Passing-Kobe
Clutch-Kobe

Silly Lebrick groupies.:oldlol:BIIIITTTCCCHHH DIDNT I JUST SAY HE AINT A LEBRON FAN!!!! :rant

Everyone who disagrees with you isnt a LeBron/Cavs fan :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Diesel J]

in the same way that Mo Williams has had an equal impact as Lebron.

Nope...Mo Williams doesn't near the impact of Lebron:oldlol:

Win shares

LeBron James-CLE 11.6 (tops in the NBA)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html

Mo Williams 5.4


Barring some kind of last-minute injury replacement, the rosters are set for this month’s All-Star Game in Phoenix. Much has been said and written about the various All-Star picks this season, but aside from the fans’ choice of Allen Iverson (2.6 Win Shares) at the expense of someone like Rajon Rondo (6.5 WS) or Mo Williams (5.4 WS), there’s not a whole lot to complain about when it comes the final picks.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/

Kobe (8.4) and Gasol (8.3) are basically equal:applause:

[1~Gibson~1]

Most clowns hating on Kobe tend to be insecure,pathetic Bron fanboys-fact.actually most Kobe fans assume/label Kobe haters az lebron fanz

[Diesel J]

:oldlol: at this clown using win shares as the sole measure of impact.:roll:

Just looked up some stats. Gasol and Kobe are basically even in impact on the Lakers:applause:

Win Shares

Kobe = 8.4
Gasol = 8.3


Defensive Win Shares

Kobe = 2.2
Gasol = 2.0

Offensive Win Shares

Kobe = 6.2
Gasol = 6.3

Offensive rating (higher=better)

Kobe = 117
Gasol = 127

Defensive rating (lower=better)

Kobe = 107
Gasol = 107

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2009.html

U:mad: ?


_________________



Just for comparison, the same thing for the Cavs between MO and Lebron

Win Shares

Lebron = 11.6
Mo Williams = 5.3

(Mo actaully ranks second on the team in this stat)


Defensive Win Shares

Lebron = 3.9
Mo Williams = 2.0

(the next best after Lebron is Verajao @ 2.6 )


Offensive Win Shares

Lebron = 7.7
Mo Williams = 3.3

Offensive rating (higher=better)

Lebron = 120
Mo Williams = 114

(Delonte is tied with Lberon @ 120 )

Defensive rating (lower=better)

Lebron = 98
Mo Williams = 106

(ben wallace is tied with lebron @ 98 )


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2009.html

[Diesel J]

243354:oldlol: Kobe and Gasol have the same def rating but gasol off rating is higher

[LakersLaLaLand]

Just looked up some stats. Gasol and Kobe are basically even in impact on the Lakers:applause:

Win Shares

Kobe = 8.4
Gasol = 8.3


Defensive Win Shares

Kobe = 2.2
Gasol = 2.0

Offensive Win Shares

Kobe = 6.2
Gasol = 6.3

Offensive rating (higher=better)

Kobe = 117
Gasol = 127

Defensive rating (lower=better)

Kobe = 107
Gasol = 107

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2009.html

U:mad: ?


_________________



Just for comparison, the same thing for the Cavs between MO and Lebron

Win Shares

Lebron = 11.6
Mo Williams = 5.3

(Mo actaully ranks second on the team in this stat)


Defensive Win Shares

Lebron = 3.9
Mo Williams = 2.0

(the next best after Lebron is Verajao @ 2.6 )


Offensive Win Shares

Lebron = 7.7
Mo Williams = 3.3

Offensive rating (higher=better)

Lebron = 120
Mo Williams = 114

(Delonte is tied with Lberon @ 120 )

Defensive rating (lower=better)

Lebron = 98
Mo Williams = 106

(ben wallace is tied with lebron @ 98 )


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2009.html


Thanks for the Stats JD. I love stats like this. Its those poor ignorant saps who refuse to understand and acknowledge facts are facts. Take your medicine you idiots.

Can you get a hold of the offensive rating where a players points per touches are measured. I believe Gasol is in the top 8 or top 5.

[Lakers Fan]

Shameless bump in light of a new thread on this subject made

[Maniak]

Shameless bump in light of a new thread on this subject made

Why bump it when there is already a thread on it on the first page? Makes no sense.

[Lakers Fan]

Why bump it when there is already a thread on it on the first page? Makes no sense.

To view the arguments that have already taken place or because I just wanted to, so phuck off you chronic complainer. Take your pick.

[crisoner]

Wow two topics about this.

I'll give the MVP to LO right now. Nice to have THREEE people in the convo on the same team. GO LAKES!!!!!!!!

[Lakers Fan]

Wow two topics about this.

I'll give the MVP to LO right now. Nice to have THREEE people in the convo on the same team. GO LAKES!!!!!!!!

It's true, LO is right there with Gasol and Kobe right now. Amazing how good a player can excel once he can focus on the game instead of personal problems.

[dyna]

Yeahh is close between he and Kobe, but Gasol has be more consistent:applause:

[Allstar24]

Kobe is and will always be the Lakers MVP. Gasol and Odom are both great players without whom we wouldn't be winning so easliy. But lets not get carried away, Kobe is still our MVP.

[Diesel J]

Thanks for the Stats JD. I love stats like this. Its those poor ignorant saps who refuse to understand and acknowledge facts are facts. Take your medicine you idiots.

No prob:cheers:

[purple8gold]

Whatever happened to "Kobe doesn't make his teammates better" argument eh?

Pau is definitely one of the really important pieces of the Lakers but I wouldn't go as far as putting him past Kobe. Stats mean something but definitely not everything. Kobe's presence on the court says a lot.

[andgar923]

If I was a true Laker fan, I wouldn't get upset at Gasol being mentioned as the more deserving of the two.

However, I don't think that Gasol is the MVP for the Lakers.

Kobe is still the team's leader.

All the responsibility still falls on him. He still gets more attention defensively and has more responsibility on his shoulders.

Most plays usually run through him, and he makes Gasol more efficient by setting him up, or by taking away double and triple teams.

Kobe sets the tempo for the team, he sets how aggressive they're gonna play and how consistent they're gonna play, not Gasol, not Odom.

This is a case in point where the win shares are slightly misleading, since Kobe makes Gasol's job much easier and lets Gasol play at a more efficient rate.

So NO..... Gasol should not and is not the Lakers' MVP.

[Gifted Mind]

This is hysterical

[Maniak]

To view the arguments that have already taken place or because I just wanted to, so phuck off you chronic complainer. Take your pick.

Heh...you mad?

[LA_Showtime]

I seriously doubt anyone would take Gasol or Kobe. This is just another thread started to piss off Laker fans.

I'd say that Kobe/Gasol are a lot closer than Kobe and Shaq were (in importance). But unlike Kobe, I don't think Gasol could single-handedly win a series for the Lakers.

[oh the horror]

Whats a trip to see is how a talented player is rejuvenated when brought to a good team.


I mean Gasol was practically DYING out there in Memphis, and then hes brought over here, and hes like a brand new player. Good stuff.

[dazed27]

Yes and then Bynum went down. They started sucking. They got Pau and got the one seed by one win. See my point without Pau they don't get the one seed, finish around 6-8.

WOWW....SO THAT MEANS BYNUM IS CO MVP WITH GASOL THEN????

[gts]

Originally Posted by Mdog1
Yes and then Bynum went down. They started sucking. They got Pau and got the one seed by one win. See my point without Pau they don't get the one seed, finish around 6-8.

that's a good point.. you should make a note of that and send it to all the GM's in the league, we'll call it Mdog1's rule to basketball success you'll be know far and wide like a hollinger or stein or colangelo

Mdog1's rule to basketball success:
"The more good players you have the better chance of winning"

sheer genuis at work here.. this is how dynasties are built

[VCMVP1551]

This is an interesting topic, but it's clear to me that Kobe is their MVP. Kobe is the main focus of the other team's defense, Kobe is the man who will be taking and making the big shots late in games, the offense runs through Kobe, Kobe is their leader in points and assists and Kobe is a better defensive player than Gasol.

Don't get me wrong I love Gasol's game. I find it incredible that he's able to switch from PF to C and produce at the same rate depending on what's needed, or that he can play with a back to the basket center like Bynum or a perimeter PF like Odom just as effectively. I also find it equally impressive that he's stepped up his production to superstar level since Bynum went down because that's what is needed, while he was merely at all-star level production with Bynum because that was what was best. In fact Gasol had no problem fitting in as the 3rd option when Bynum started to dominate.

And it shows in his production since Bynum went down. Without Bynum Gasol is averaging 22.3 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.2 bpg, 62.1 FG%, 42.2 mpg.

I don't think the Lakers would have been near 9-1 in that time though if Kobe hadn't come out and had that statement game vs the Knicks. I believe that 61 point game gave the Lakers that temporary boost that they needed. He just put them on their back. Taking over with a dominant game after such a devastating injury has a huge impact. Kobe was the one guy you could rely on to come out with a ton of energy despite the big loss.

However there's no just no way that Gasol is more important than Kobe. Maybe to the current Lakers they're equally important, I don't know, but Gasol has done nothing that puts him above Kobe as the best player.

And again that's nothing against Gasol. I actually would have placed gasol higher than Kobe in MVP voting in 2006 because he led a comparable roster to more wins in the West. But that's different, that's two stars making lottery teams into average playoff teams. For a team to go to the next level you need a truly dominant player like Kobe Bryant.

The same way that Gasol flips a switch from 2nd option to 3rd option or from power forward to center depending on what's needed. Kobe these days flips a switch from getting everyone involved to truly dominating with his scoring depending on what's needed. Not many other players have scored so much, so effortlessly within the flow of the offense like Kobe did last season(especially in the playoffs) and this season. For a lot of the season Kobe was only averaged 24-25 ppg, but he was getting everyone involved and blowing out teams. Now they aren't as deep so he often goes on scoring binges. Sometimes it's hard to believe at times now that he scores 35-40 because it comes so easily and within the flow of the offense.

[gts]

Lakers coach Jackson: Less means more from Kobe
By Elliott Teaford Staff Writer


OKLAHOMA CITY - Kobe Bryant's scoring average is down again this season.

He's playing better than ever.

Cause and effect?

"Kobe's playing as well as he did last year," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said after the team practiced Monday afternoon at Southern Nazarene University.

"Most of that is simply because he's a better leader. He's more determined in that aspect."

Bryant averaged a league- leading 35.4 points in 2005-06, but the Lakers lost to the Phoenix Suns in the first round of the playoffs.

He averaged 31.6 points in 2006-07, leading the league again, but the Lakers lost to the Suns again in the opening round.

His averaged dipped again last season to 28.3 points, but he won the league's MVP award for the first time in his career and helped the Lakers reach the NBA Finals for the first time in four years.

This season, Bryant is averaging 27.6 points and the Lakers have the league's best record at 46-10 going into tonight's game against the Oklahoma City Thunder.

The Lakers' loss to the Boston Celtics in the Finals last June has stoked Bryant's competitive fire, Jackson said.

"I think mostly it's the drive," Jackson said. "Every game he comes out and there's a purpose these guys have to play for, there's a reason to go out there and win. There's a motivation he provides by always pressing the team forward.

"A lot of times it over runs guys. They're upset they're not getting as many shots. And he says, `OK come get the ball. If you want to take it from me, you've got to show me you're as hungry to score, as hungry and aggressive as I am.' "So that's the leadership he provides."

Kobe or LeBron?

Jackson can't vote for the MVP award, which is determined by media members at the end of the regular season.

It doesn't mean he can't voice his opinion.

So, would he endorse Bryant for the second consecutive season or would he back LeBron James of the Cleveland Cavaliers?

"The two are such different ballplayers, but they're similar in many aspects: body makeup, the way they play the game," Jackson said when asked to analyze the Bryant-James matchup for MVP. "Kobe's having a really great year. LeBron's having a greater year than he's ever had. He's a better player than he was last year, by far."

more here
http://www.dailynews.com/ci_11771285?source=rss_viewed

[c_az_a]

Without Gasol, Lakers would have finished 4-6th seed last year (remember how many teams were within 3 games of the Lakers from first). Kobe wouldn't have won the MVP (that's why he always the All star game MVP, look at his teammates). They would have been knocked out either the first or semifinal round (especially when Kobe wants to take over, see NBA finals last year).

Put Gasol (of last two years) on the 72 win Chicago Bulls team, they would have +5 wins easily. And Gasol would have a ring by now.

[TmacsRockets]

Without Gasol the Lakers win 45 games, with him they win 67.

[steeph28]

Without Gasol, Lakers would have finished 4-6th seed last year (remember how many teams were within 3 games of the Lakers from first). Kobe wouldn't have won the MVP (that's why he always the All star game MVP, look at his teammates). They would have been knocked out either the first or semifinal round (especially when Kobe wants to take over, see NBA finals last year).

So it's more like Pau is the true MVP for Kobe right? :D



Put Gasol (of last two years) on the 72 win Chicago Bulls team, they would have +5 wins easily. And Gasol would have a ring by now.

Wait, what are you trying to prove here? The addition of any current all-star would undoubtedly help out that team...



Without Gasol the Lakers win 45 games, with him they win 67.

That may be true, but how many games do the Lakers win without Kobe? The argument can go both ways.

[KenneBell]

Without Gasol, Lakers would have finished 4-6th seed last year (remember how many teams were within 3 games of the Lakers from first). Kobe wouldn't have won the MVP (that's why he always the All star game MVP, look at his teammates). They would have been knocked out either the first or semifinal round (especially when Kobe wants to take over, see NBA finals last year).

Put Gasol (of last two years) on the 72 win Chicago Bulls team, they would have +5 wins easily. And Gasol would have a ring by now.
:roll:

Trollerskates...

[c_az_a]

So it's more like Pau is the true MVP for Kobe right? :D

Wait, what are you trying to prove here? The addition of any current all-star would undoubtedly help out that team...


That may be true, but how many games do the Lakers win without Kobe? The argument can go both ways.

Kobe Bryant is hype to be something he is not. He won the most valuable player because of the input Gasol brought to the team. Yet the media want to make appear it was Kobe all along.

But in our society, you point out flaws to a flock of sheep. That's how people get scammed because they are easily fooled.

Which is what i equate Kobe Bryant fans who think he's the "man".

If only the NBA was in the business of scamming people of their money. I bet they'll do a great job considering their hype of Kobe Bryant.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

what a bunch of fcuking retards.
with Gasol they are a better team. Duh! They will win more games with Gasol.

Likewise, MJ's Bulls were MUCH better with Scottie Pippen than without.

Celtics are better with KG and Ray Ray.

good god, people, start posting like adults please.

[TmacsRockets]

Without Gasol, Lakers would have finished 4-6th seed last year (remember how many teams were within 3 games of the Lakers from first). Kobe wouldn't have won the MVP (that's why he always the All star game MVP, look at his teammates). They would have been knocked out either the first or semifinal round (especially when Kobe wants to take over, see NBA finals last year).

Put Gasol (of last two years) on the 72 win Chicago Bulls team, they would have +5 wins easily. And Gasol would have a ring by now.

:applause: :cheers:

[LA_Showtime]

so pretty much people are trying to downplay kobe's mvp last season because the lakers acquired gasol. stop living in the past and get over it.

kobe + gasol = 67 wins and kobe without gasol = 45 wins. okay. what would gasol + lakers - kobe/bynum equal?

c_az_a i don't even understand why you post on ish. you want the nba to go into another lockout just so kobe can't play basketball. find a new hobby and stop posting garbage.

[LA_Showtime]

Put Gasol (of last two years) on the 72 win Chicago Bulls team, they would have +5 wins easily. And Gasol would have a ring by now.

wow.

[dyna]

I seriously doubt anyone would take Gasol or Kobe. This is just another thread started to piss off Laker fans.

I'd say that Kobe/Gasol are a lot closer than Kobe and Shaq were (in importance). But unlike Kobe, I don't think Gasol could single-handedly win a series for the Lakers.

Kobe fans:confusedshrug:

[LA_Showtime]

Kobe fans:confusedshrug:

it pisses laker and kobe fans off. personally i'm not a huge fan of kobe but i still find it annoying that every post (by tmacrockets or z_az_c_) has an agenda behind it.

[AllenIverson3]

Pau is the reason Lakers are contenders again and winnning games

[barne100]

Pau is the reason Lakers are contenders again and winnning games

Mo Williams is the reason the Cavs are contenders and winning games.

does it make him the true MVP?

threads like these make me think of the movie idiocracy...