View Full Version : Rajon Rondo has become so Overrated
Mississippi
12-19-2008, 02:20 PM
Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but he's definitely not what he's hyped up to be. I've been hearing people saying that he's an allstar this year and I think that is ridiculous. Hell I think Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West and Allen Ray would look like allstars next to Garnett, Pierce and Allen. At least those three guards can actually shoot the ball. Rondo passes up on so many open looks which he should be taken. Maybe I haven't seen enough to really say, but from what I've seen he's nowhere near an allstar caliber guard just yet.
Real Men Wear Green
12-19-2008, 02:24 PM
All-star? No. But Rondo beat out Telfair for a reason. Allan Ray, not even going to go there.
Delonte West may just look like an All-Star in the half court, though Rondo is the better PG.
He's playing great, much better then last year, but I agree with you. He's averaging 11/7/5. He's playing great all-around, but thats nothing to go crazy about. Devin Harris is clearly better. Derrick Rose is clearly better. Jose Calderon is third in the league in assists right now and he gets absolutely no mention. Now I know everyone is going to say "they're not winning", but does anybody honestly think the Celtics wouldn't do just as well, if not better, with one of the PGs I mentioned instead of Rondo?
SoCalMike
12-19-2008, 02:25 PM
He is a product of the veteran team members around him, but he is indeed playing very well and contributing significantly toward the success of that team.
I would not take anything away from him, IMO. He has over exceeded my expectations from what I thought he could be.
He deserves props for that.
:pimp:
Yung D-Will
12-19-2008, 02:26 PM
Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but he's definitely not what he's hyped up to be. I've been hearing people saying that he's an allstar this year and I think that is ridiculous. Hell I think Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West and Allen Ray would look like allstars next to Garnett, Pierce and Allen. At least those three guards can actually shoot the ball. Rondo passes up on so many open looks which he should be taken. Maybe I haven't seen enough to really say, but from what I've seen he's nowhere near an allstar caliber guard just yet.
Yes thank you. I'm at school, and I start hearing that Rondo is better than Devin Harris and Deron Williams at that point i knew things were getting out of hand. Rondo has stepped up his scoring game this season but is not among the top 10 point guards in the league ATM. When your with All stars it always gives you advantages over the other point guards in the league.
Mr_Basketball#1
12-19-2008, 02:27 PM
Rondo is quicker than any of the mentioned players, a better defender, and a better playmaker. He may not be an All-Star just yet, but he will be in the future. I bet you think Gabe Pruitt>>>Rondo just because he can shoot. LMAO
boozehound
12-19-2008, 02:28 PM
uif you saw rondo in college, you saw what he could do. One of the best rebounding guards I can recall in recent memory. solid passer, long arms and quick. Solid handle. All hes missing is a jumper and that is fine.
#1 LAL
12-19-2008, 02:37 PM
He's been very good this year, but not great. He's probably going to make the all-star team, but i'm not sure if that's because of his production, the Celtics record, or because there are not a lot of great point guards in the East. With that said, he's got a ton of potential and with the solid foundation in Boston he'll probably reach it. Can you imagine how good he'll be once he develops a consistent jumpshot?
#1 LAL
12-19-2008, 02:38 PM
uif you saw rondo in college, you saw what he could do. One of the best rebounding guards I can recall in recent memory. solid passer, long arms and quick. Solid handle. All hes missing is a jumper and that is fine.
Rajon Rondo was worse in college. The college game never really suited his style of play.
Dasher
12-19-2008, 02:44 PM
Rajon Rondo was worse in college. The college game never really suited his style of play.
That said, he still led the SEC in assists, while playing for Tubby Smith. Smith micromanaged him and really slowed it down, but Rajon was still able to drop dimes.
boozehound
12-19-2008, 03:08 PM
Rajon Rondo was worse in college. The college game never really suited his style of play.
sure, he had some rough times in college but he had some brilliant flashes. As far as late round picks thats what you gotta look for
Real Men Wear Green
12-19-2008, 03:12 PM
His college career had me wanting Marcus Williams more, haha. Tubby put him at SG so I personally saw a 6foot combo guard that couldn't shoot, thought he was worthless. Glad to be wrong.
He's playing great, much better then last year, but I agree with you. He's averaging 11/7/5. He's playing great all-around, but thats nothing to go crazy about. Devin Harris is clearly better. Derrick Rose is clearly better. Jose Calderon is third in the league in assists right now and he gets absolutely no mention. Now I know everyone is going to say "they're not winning", but does anybody honestly think the Celtics wouldn't do just as well, if not better, with one of the PGs I mentioned instead of Rondo?
Rose, with experience, would definitely be an improvement and right now may be better for the team, altrhough I'm not sure if he defends on par with Rondo. Calderon and Harris are definite offensive improvements, but on d Calderon is a downgrade, whereas Harris may be able to defend like Rondo but doesn't. And D is the Cs trademark. They are all better players than Rondo but may not be better for the Celtics.
bdreason
12-19-2008, 03:16 PM
He's not an All-Star, so anyone claiming that is overrating.
JohnnySic
12-19-2008, 03:17 PM
Rondo is not an all-star yet, but he's damn good, especially on D. If he's overrated, its only a reflection of playing on the best team.
spursdynasty420
12-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Ive watched plenty of celtic games this year. who is overrating rondo? Hes not better then any of the big 3.. so who is saying he is? nobody... hes an amazing role player he makes really good choices and plays great with the team he has. dude is a baller im lovin his play this season. he does get ALOT of open looks though in the paint and outside. im sure alot of point guards wish they were in his position with the big 3 getting him so many open looks.
new noise
12-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Agree that he's in part a product of the guys around him, but that goes both ways. And he's not at that all-star level yet, but when you consider he was supposed to be the weak link when the Big Three came in I definitely think he's been a surprise.
Real Men Wear Green
12-19-2008, 03:52 PM
Ive watched plenty of celtic games this year. who is overrating rondo? Hes not better then any of the big 3.. so who is saying he is? nobody... hes an amazing role player he makes really good choices and plays great with the team he has. dude is a baller im lovin his play this season. he does get ALOT of open looks though in the paint and outside. im sure alot of point guards wish they were in his position with the big 3 getting him so many open looks.
The Celtic analysts on Comcast Sports Net New England as well as Jeff Howe on Boston's Metro and some of the local Sportswriters are telling everyone that RR is an All-star, so the guy has a point. It's starting to effect the opinions of some Celtic fans, including on this board.
He's a future all star if he stays in the east.
Here's an interesting question: Would he become better or worse if he was on a lesser team than Boston?
Real Men Wear Green
12-19-2008, 04:00 PM
He'd have bigger stats with a bigger role, but no one would be calling him an All-Star.
kNIOKAS
12-19-2008, 04:08 PM
Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but he's definitely not what he's hyped up to be. I've been hearing people saying that he's an allstar this year and I think that is ridiculous. Hell I think Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West and Allen Ray would look like allstars next to Garnett, Pierce and Allen. At least those three guards can actually shoot the ball. Rondo passes up on so many open looks which he should be taken. Maybe I haven't seen enough to really say, but from what I've seen he's nowhere near an allstar caliber guard just yet.
NO. and there's now way you put delonte alongside those other two, it's just not fair.
anyway, i'm happy you aren't praising rondo straight away, and you're letting him prove himself. and that's what all the bandwagoners or/and haters should do. guy is young, let him ball.
Rondo is a very lucky player, because Boston is exactly the right place for him.
He can showcase his talents, and the bad parts of his game don't really matter in Boston.
But make no mistake, he isn't really any better than a guy like Brevin Knight. He's still pretty young though, so there is room for improvement.
chains5000
12-19-2008, 04:59 PM
If you check nba.com, there's a headline "Who will you send to the AS game?" or something like that, with Rondo's picture.
That's overrating.
ukplayer4
12-19-2008, 05:47 PM
he has become over rated deffinatly. the guy is very good and physicaly very gifted but he does some really dumb things that make me question his intelligence, which also makes me believe he will never get that much better.
when did he stop dunking thoe, for ****s sake it pisses me off when ultra athletic guys dont even dunk on the fast break.
montaownedu
12-19-2008, 05:51 PM
Playing in Boston is such a double edged sword for Rondo. He is playing like an All Star caliber point guard. And yes, that has something to do with the fact that he plays with the Big 3. However, if he played on a different team i think his scoring numbers would be higher, assist numbers only slightly slower, and he would still play some of the best defense out of the point guard posistion in the league. I don't think people realize how much he means to the Celtics, and you certainly couldn't just throw someone like Sebastian Telfair in there and get the same results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iK2QgWE_7Y
chocolatethunder
12-19-2008, 06:17 PM
All-star? No. But Rondo beat out Telfair for a reason. Allan Ray, not even going to go there.
Delonte West may just look like an All-Star in the half court, though Rondo is the better PG.
No matter how many courts there are Delonte West will never look like an All-Star. Telfair is and always was garbage. Rondo is decent but all of a sudden everyone's on his jock.
InspiredLebowski
12-19-2008, 06:39 PM
I read in an Indy Star article that the writer overheard some team's scout talking about Rondo and he said "he's a garbage PG, if he played on a mediocre team people would see that." I may be paraphrasing, but that was the gist.
Alonzo Magic
12-19-2008, 06:44 PM
If you check nba.com, there's a headline "Who will you send to the AS game?" or something like that, with Rondo's picture.
That's overrating.
Exactly, he isn't All Star material.
Mateo
12-19-2008, 06:49 PM
He's a very efficient player, and that's why people like him. Very few PGs have the all-around game that he has. Jason Kidd was always a poor shooter and that didn't stop people from appreciating him. Rondo is very much in the same vein, except that his skills are far more on the defensive end.
Mateo
12-19-2008, 06:53 PM
Exactly, he isn't All Star material.
Do you really believe that? I mean, he has to at least be in the conversation. The only east PG you can say is definitely more deserving is Devin Harris. Then you got Calderon, Ford, Rondo, Rose who all have arguments in their favor. It's very difficult for me to accept the "not All Star material" nonargument.
hoopaddict08
12-19-2008, 07:23 PM
He is a great point guard for the team he is on, but anywhere else I don't think he would be nearly as effective.
J_Rock3ts
12-19-2008, 07:37 PM
Is he becoming a tad bit overrated? Sure. But let's not forget, the first person you hear mentioned when anyone in the Celtics organization mentions how good they're playing is Rondo. When 3 of the best players of the decade credit a role player for the success they're enjoying, you've got a damn good role player.
lilmarcgasol
12-19-2008, 07:40 PM
people overrating Rondo are morons, especially idiots say hes better or ever will be better than Deron haha yeh lets trade those two players, Jazz instantly become not even playoff team and Celtics=an automatic finals for the next 3 years with Deron instead of Rondo.
Paladin55
12-19-2008, 07:43 PM
he has become over rated deffinatly. the guy is very good and physicaly very gifted but he does some really dumb things that make me question his intelligence, which also makes me believe he will never get that much better.
when did he stop dunking thoe, for ****s sake it pisses me off when ultra athletic guys dont even dunk on the fast break.
Yeah, not dunking on a fast break is definitely a dumb thing and a sign that he is lacking in intelligence.
Perhaps you should improve your spelling before you get too critical about another person's intelligence.
ukplayer4
12-19-2008, 07:58 PM
Yeah, not dunking on a fast break is definitely a dumb thing and a sign that he is lacking in intelligence.
Perhaps you should improve your spelling before you get too critical about another person's intelligence.
it is your reading comprehension that really needs the work here, are you that mentally defective that you cannot tell that i clearly made two different points there.......not dunking on the fast break obviously not being connected to a lack of intelligence hence the use of two clearly spaced out points/paragraphs.
you really are desperate trying to imply that i meant him not dunking is due to his lack of intelligence.
InspiredLebowski
12-19-2008, 08:08 PM
Face it, the East is pretty weak at the 1. Harris is just now having a breakout year. Then you've got what, Calderon, Dre Miller, Bibby, Ford, Rose, Rondo? None of those guys are All-Stars in my opinion. Good thing the ASG just picks generic "guards" and not specifically 1s or 2s.
Mdog1
12-19-2008, 08:28 PM
Face it, the East is pretty weak at the 1. Harris is just now having a breakout year. Then you've got what, Calderon, Dre Miller, Bibby, Ford, Rose, Rondo? None of those guys are All-Stars in my opinion. Good thing the ASG just picks generic "guards" and not specifically 1s or 2s.
Why does Mo Williams always get forgoten? I mean he is the PG for the 3rd best team in the league and is putting up pretty good numbers.
KeylessEntry
12-19-2008, 08:30 PM
Why does Mo Williams always get forgoten? I mean he is the PG for the 3rd best team in the league and is putting up pretty good numbers.
I think it is because for the past few years everyone has been convinced that all of Lebrons teamates "suck", that at this point nobody is able to give them any credit for the cavs success.
lilmarcgasol
12-19-2008, 08:31 PM
Why does Mo Williams always get forgoten? I mean he is the PG for the 3rd best team in the league and is putting up pretty good numbers.
Because Mo Williams is a one dimensional scorer slash chucker, not a point guard.
veilside23
12-19-2008, 08:39 PM
there maybe people overrating rondo but i think there are more people here who cant see how good this kid is......
InspiredLebowski
12-19-2008, 08:50 PM
Why does Mo Williams always get forgoten? I mean he is the PG for the 3rd best team in the league and is putting up pretty good numbers.
He isn't an All Star either.
lilojmayo
12-19-2008, 09:42 PM
Drose is making Rondo look like a child right now
redbull034
12-19-2008, 10:39 PM
Drose is making Rondo look like a child right now
rose 14 pt 5ast 3 ot 0 st
rondo 4 pt 15ast 1 ot 4 st:confusedshrug:
veilside23
12-19-2008, 10:47 PM
Drose is making Rondo look like a child right now
LoL
where you at right now ?? 15 ast >>>>> 14 pts ... not to mention 4 steals :rockon:
Drose is making Rondo look like a child right now
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
gpfanz
12-19-2008, 11:02 PM
He fulfills his role very well that is :applause:
mtaclof
12-19-2008, 11:31 PM
Rondo shouldn't be hailed as the second coming of christ here, but the man is good. What makes him so noteworthy is that he happens to be strong in all the areas a PG ought to be. He's not a superstar because he has his weaknesses. The lack of shooting ability hurts, but he's young yet. He does a great job of getting his guys to trust him. You can't assume he's only good because he has 3 good vets around him. Do you think KG would trust a bad PG enough to hook up for so many alley-oops when he clearly has range that he could use?
Rondo's got extreme quickness, presence of mind, court vision, creativity in his passing, and he's the second best rebounding PG in the league(Jason Kidd is first). He is a perfect fit for his team, since he doesn't have to be a scorer in order to perform. It also helps that his mentality is to take pride in his passing, and not to worry if he doesn't drop 20(or even 4, like tonight) a night.
Mississippi
12-19-2008, 11:49 PM
This thread = epic fail.
You're a 40 yr old virgin. Your life=epic fail
Godfather
12-19-2008, 11:51 PM
You're a 40 yr old virgin. Your life=epic fail
:applause:
This is so true (100000+ posts by GOBB=fails).
Rondo may be overrated, but he fulfills hos role very well. IMO though an All Star caliber PG can shoot consistently past 6 feet.
Rondo isn't an all-star but he might get there for the lack of depth in the East but is he really a role player? I'm not sure if he is just a role player he is very good in many aspects you would want in a starting pg, he is not as limited as some people believe him to be.
Rondo's been doing good this year, not an all-star yet but if he develops a mid-range jumpshot he will have a good chance next year.
Real Men Wear Green
12-20-2008, 09:29 AM
No matter how many courts there are Delonte West will never look like an All-Star. Telfair is and always was garbage. Rondo is decent but all of a sudden everyone's on his jock.
Well, West is an excellent shooter that can handle the pg role. He may just score as much as the All-Stars on this team because his role on offense would be similar to Ray Allen's. If he's getting 17+ on the best team in the league, he may just sneak in there.
pete's montreux
12-20-2008, 10:31 AM
I have no comment on this subject.
Nash-tastic
12-20-2008, 11:08 AM
Drose is making Rondo look like a child right now
Another gem by lilojmayo
Yung D-Will
12-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Rando is getting better is what I will acknowledge.
Mamba
12-20-2008, 11:22 AM
just to let everyone know.
rondo is used 2 playing with 3 all star caliber players, getting them the ball when they need it most, and setting up plays.
now when he's in the all star game is he going 2 play like this? or be an iverson ballhog. if he knows whats best for him he'll play the same way he does for the celtics. space the floor, pass the ball drive when he can and play some good defence.
dhenk
12-20-2008, 12:11 PM
Fact is, Rondo has been underrated his whole career.
Until last year
chocolatethunder
12-20-2008, 01:00 PM
Well, West is an excellent shooter that can handle the pg role. He may just score as much as the All-Stars on this team because his role on offense would be similar to Ray Allen's. If he's getting 17+ on the best team in the league, he may just sneak in there.
Ok calm down for a second. West is a guy that is shooting under 45% for career. That is good, but it's not excellent by any stretch. When he can string together four straight years of shooting 50% from the floor and over 40% from 3, then I'll call him an excellent shooter. As far as being a PG is concerned, I don't need any PGs on my team that average 3.8 assists and 1.6 turnovers.
Real Men Wear Green
12-20-2008, 01:11 PM
Arguments based on subjective definitions are always weak. "West is shooting 46%, so he's not 'excellent,' just 'very good!" Whatever.
West averages 3.8 assists playing more sg than pg. There's nothing wrong with that. You're just slanting stats negatively.
You're a 40 yr old virgin. Your life=epic fail
Thats original. Did you google that comeback?
This is so true (100000+ posts by GOBB=fails).
Exagerrate much?
Mississippi
12-20-2008, 02:57 PM
Thats original. Did you google that comeback?
Yeah as if "this tread=fail" was first used last night. :rolleyes:
For those who want to see how Rondo played with out an all-star on his team look at his rookie year as a starter in 25 games he avg.
10.6 ppg
5.8 apg
5.4 rpg
2.4 spg
47.4 FG%
if he could do that as a rookie with Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes as his best players why couldn't he put up better numbers now as a 3rd year player.
Yeah as if "this tread=fail" was first used last night. :rolleyes:
What you wrote was something you made up. A lie. What I typed was the truth. Your thread is a failure. Rondo being overrated? Yeah he sure looked that way this season especially last night. Problem with you and other idiots on this msgboard? A couple posters prop, give praise to a player. And you are lookin for things to disagree on, to discredit or find flaw with. So your counter is the opposite of praise. Its making up nonsense with no basis.
Rondo has never been ranked higher than what many have him. PG is one of the most difficult transitions along with C when entering the pro game as a rookie. Let alone a starter. Rondo did a great job thus far dispite his shooting/lack of range woes. He'll continue to improve/develop and the clowns here wanna use the Big 3 as some sort of reason why he looks good. Sorry KG, Pierce nor Allen help this kid make the right decisions. They dont help him penetrate to the basket, push the rock keeping defenders on thier heels. They dont allow him to be a good defensive PG either.
If anything they make his offense not as important where he isnt dependant on scoring. Guy does everything else well and did so in college. You notice how i can briefly disect your weak thread? Your topic is a failure.
Now sit there, fabricate some tall tales for your response. Prove me right that I speak the truth, supply facts whereas you? You pass gas when typing. And quite frankly? It stinks. :no:
Mathius
12-20-2008, 04:58 PM
For those who want to see how Rondo played with out an all-star on his team look at his rookie year as a starter in 25 games he avg.
10.6 ppg
5.8 apg
5.4 rpg
2.4 spg
47.4 FG%
if he could do that as a rookie with Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes as his best players why couldn't he put up better numbers now as a 3rd year player.
Todd Day put up 16ppg one year and was out of the league shortly after. I can list all sorts of players you've probably never heard of that have had good years here and there, and sucked after.
To assume that someone's going to just keep getting better year after year is ignorance at its best.
Hell, look at Antoine Walker.
Mathius
Vancouver-Grizz
12-20-2008, 06:18 PM
What you wrote was something you made up. A lie. What I typed was the truth. Your thread is a failure. Rondo being overrated? Yeah he sure looked that way this season especially last night. Problem with you and other idiots on this msgboard? A couple posters prop, give praise to a player. And you are lookin for things to disagree on, to discredit or find flaw with. So your counter is the opposite of praise. Its making up nonsense with no basis.
Rondo has never been ranked higher than what many have him. PG is one of the most difficult transitions along with C when entering the pro game as a rookie. Let alone a starter. Rondo did a great job thus far dispite his shooting/lack of range woes. He'll continue to improve/develop and the clowns here wanna use the Big 3 as some sort of reason why he looks good. Sorry KG, Pierce nor Allen help this kid make the right decisions. They dont help him penetrate to the basket, push the rock keeping defenders on thier heels. They dont allow him to be a good defensive PG either.
If anything they make his offense not as important where he isnt dependant on scoring. Guy does everything else well and did so in college. You notice how i can briefly disect your weak thread? Your topic is a failure.
Now sit there, fabricate some tall tales for your response. Prove me right that I speak the truth, supply facts whereas you? You pass gas when typing. And quite frankly? It stinks. :no:
Finally!
A thoughtful response.
I too wonder why posters on this messageboard seem to bash players other then their favorites.
Rondo is a great player, maybe not an all-star but he can be a solid NBA player. Labelling a NBA player a all-star means actually nothing considering there is a chance Yi might sneak in there. What means something in this league is getting voted in the All-NBA team.
Todd Day put up 16ppg one year and was out of the league shortly after. I can list all sorts of players you've probably never heard of that have had good years here and there, and sucked after.
To assume that someone's going to just keep getting better year after year is ignorance at its best.
Hell, look at Antoine Walker.
Mathius
I'm not assuming he gets better and better I'm just showing what Rondo did without 3 all-stars on his team as a rookie PG. A lot of Rondo's doubters question his ability without the big 3 unfairly imo when just 2 seasons ago he has solid stats as a rookie. Now in his 3rd year has progressed especially on the defensive end so why do people claim the big 3 make him look good or hide his weak points. Rondo's game is good in every area besides shooting yet people continue to harp on that instead of the other 6-7 things he does at a high level.
bada bing
12-20-2008, 06:19 PM
obviously he is overrated. This guy is playing with three future HOF guys. What has he accomplished on an individual level on this team? He doesn't have to do anything and will be regarded as one of the top 10 pgs in this league...he is far from that in truth.
Todd Day put up 16ppg one year and was out of the league shortly after. I can list all sorts of players you've probably never heard of that have had good years here and there, and sucked after.
To assume that someone's going to just keep getting better year after year is ignorance at its best.
Hell, look at Antoine Walker.
Mathius
Are you comparing a very young Rondo to Walker, who actually improved a few years and Todd Day, who everybody actually expected to become very good? For every player who did not improve you can name as many who did. I'm not saying Rondo will become a star, but he's shown enough to say he's at least a above average starter.
Mathius
12-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Are you comparing a very young Rondo to Walker, who actually improved a few years and Todd Day, who everybody actually expected to become very good? For every player who did not improve you can name as many who did. I'm not saying Rondo will become a star, but he's shown enough to say he's at least a above average starter.
I'm not comparing anyone. I'm just pointing out the stupidity of his logic to just assume that 3 years in the league means natural progression.
Mathius
obviously he is overrated. This guy is playing with three future HOF guys. What has he accomplished on an individual level on this team? He doesn't have to do anything and will be regarded as one of the top 10 pgs in this league...he is far from that in truth.
in his rookie year he played with another big 3 Al Jefferson, Gerald Green and Ryan Gomes and look what he did :banghead:
I'm not comparing anyone. I'm just pointing out the stupidity of his logic to just assume that 3 years in the league means natural progression.
Mathius
my point was not assuming he is progressing but that he is virtually the same player with or without the Big 3 for those who argue the big 3 make him look good they are flat out wrong.
I'm not comparing anyone. I'm just pointing out the stupidity of his logic to just assume that 3 years in the league means natural progression.
Mathius
Everybody assumes a player progresses in his 3rd year. If players, especially starters, do no progress people will be amazed. It's expected from players and especially starters. I don't see what's so absurd here, let's be realistic. You picked Todd Day, you couldve thrown in Pooh Richardson and them too, but those players were also expected to improve. I can understand it if you'll tell us players are not expected to improve when they're 27 yeras old, like David West's progression was a bit of a surprise to most. But expecting a 22 year old Rondo to imrpove from what he was last year?
That's normal, and I'm not talking about stats.
This guy is learning to play by training with some of the best in the league, proven players, he's getting tons of experience by playing extended minutes and going deep into the playoffs, leanring how it is to play under pressure by actually being there on the field during crunch time, making important decisions, handling the ball, being one of the focal points in setting up plays and having a clearly defined role within the starting five.
You don't expect those things to actually improve him as a player? He might never become a 17/9 player with great shooting, but if all those things don't factor in and enable him to grow on what he was this summer, something is clearly very wrong.
nosurrender
12-20-2008, 06:50 PM
someone is angry at celtics' success. put him on suicide watch when they win it all this year
Mathius
12-20-2008, 08:05 PM
Everybody assumes a player progresses in his 3rd year. If players, especially starters, do no progress people will be amazed. It's expected from players and especially starters. I don't see what's so absurd here, let's be realistic. You picked Todd Day, you couldve thrown in Pooh Richardson and them too, but those players were also expected to improve. I can understand it if you'll tell us players are not expected to improve when they're 27 yeras old, like David West's progression was a bit of a surprise to most. But expecting a 22 year old Rondo to imrpove from what he was last year?
That's normal, and I'm not talking about stats.
That's not "normal." You can go back through history and look at guys who've had good rookie seasons or second years, and then completely digressed. There is no "normal" in the NBA.
Try watching for a few decades and then get back to me on the definition of NBA "normal."
Mathius
That's not "normal." You can go back through history and look at guys who've had good rookie seasons or second years, and then completely digressed. There is no "normal" in the NBA.
Try watching for a few decades and then get back to me on the definition of NBA "normal."
Mathius
List the guys who played big roles on Championship teams or teams as good as the Celtics as SOPHOMORES who 'completely digressed'. Or just throw me a list of players who started and played big roles on good teams who totally digressed. Just for the last ten years. Should be easy.
The fact you have to look for them proves it's rather an exception than a rule. Saying it doesn't happen is a lie, but now you're just blatantly trying to cover up some unfounded ranting for the sake of ranting.
Don't give me this decades stuff since you know it's just bull****, you busted another fuse in here because that's your 'cool' thing to do, I know it's your thing and that's what you're known for (aside from the signature), sure you have to do it every now and then just to make sure we won't forget about you. But just make sure it's at the right time and place. Don't go Ricky D on us.
Mathius
12-20-2008, 09:37 PM
List the guys who played big roles on Championship teams or teams as good as the Celtics as SOPHOMORES who 'completely digressed'. Or just throw me a list of players who started and played big roles on good teams who totally digressed. Just for the last ten years. Should be easy.
Give me a list of all those stupid PF's the Bulls drafted all those years like Corie Blount, Dickey Simpkins, and Byron Houston, etc. that were SOO promising their first couple years before people realized they just plain suck ass. :rolleyes:
The fact you have to look for them proves it's rather an exception than a rule. Saying it doesn't happen is a lie, but now you're just blatantly trying to cover up some unfounded ranting for the sake of ranting.
Don't give me this decades stuff since you know it's just bull****, you busted another fuse in here because that's your 'cool' thing to do, I know it's your thing and that's what you're known for (aside from the signature), sure you have to do it every now and then just to make sure we won't forget about you. But just make sure it's at the right time and place. Don't go Ricky D on us.
It's not bullsh*t just because you choose to not accept it. In 20 years or more of watching the NBA, I've found that making predictions or trying to prove a trend is a waste of time. Did it make any sense for Elton Brand to skip town when he was supposed to make such a badass tandem with Baron Davis? Did it make sense for Memphis to ship out Pau Gasol to the Lakers of all places? Did anyone predict Devin Harris would be this good? Did anyone predict Jason Kidd would fall off as quick as he has?
Those are just things that happened in the last year or so.
Mathius
catzhernandez
12-20-2008, 09:55 PM
Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but he's definitely not what he's hyped up to be. I've been hearing people saying that he's an allstar this year and I think that is ridiculous. Hell I think Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West and Allen Ray would look like allstars next to Garnett, Pierce and Allen. At least those three guards can actually shoot the ball. Rondo passes up on so many open looks which he should be taken. Maybe I haven't seen enough to really say, but from what I've seen he's nowhere near an allstar caliber guard just yet.
:lol
Allan Ray... That's funny.
garnett_21
12-20-2008, 09:59 PM
Players improve when they have great players to play along side of them - no different with Rondo, except that he plays along side of 3 great players. He has phenomenal court vision and is a superstar in the making.
Give me a list of all those stupid PF's the Bulls drafted all those years like Corie Blount, Dickey Simpkins, and Byron Houston, etc. that were SOO promising their first couple years before people realized they just plain suck ass. :rolleyes:
None of those players you mentioned compares to Rondo. None of them played such a big role and heavy minutes for good teams. :confusedshrug: It should be easy, the way you bring it. I'm still waiting for names.
He has phenomenal court vision and is a superstar in the making.
:roll: :roll:
RoseCity07
12-21-2008, 04:51 AM
Why is it that any time a player is having a great season someone calls them overrated. Get over yourself.
stephanieg
12-21-2008, 05:16 AM
If you went back to 2003 and told people Parker was going to drop 40+ in the playoffs using mostly jumpers off pick and rolls or that he'd be Finals MVP everyone would've:
:roll: :roll:
Celts34
12-21-2008, 09:12 AM
If you went back to 2003 and told people Parker was going to drop 40+ in the playoffs using mostly jumpers off pick and rolls or that he'd be Finals MVP everyone would've:
If you went to this board back in 2003 and asked if Tony Parker would be a multiple time AS player, 95% of the people here thought Tony Parker was way overrated(I did as such as well). That he was a scrub that got to shine because of the team he was on. Hell I would say that was the overall perception of him on this board until 05.
Look Rondo is a very good player. Forget about whether or not he can get better, and understand he has gotten better and is improving rapidly. I don't know what some posters are all up in arms over. Outside of shooting, is there one skill he doesn't have that you would want a young or any point guard to have. Rebounding, Defense, Ball-handling, court vision, he takes care of the ball, and thinks pass first. Is he CP3? No. Is he D-will? No. So what.
I would say his impact on the Celtics is alot greater then what people on this board think. But then again it wouldn't be the first time a large majority of the ISH Basketball geniuses were wrong.
If you went back to 2003 and told people Parker was going to drop 40+ in the playoffs using mostly jumpers off pick and rolls or that he'd be Finals MVP everyone would've:
Tony Parker isnt a superstar either.:confusedshrug:
stephanieg
12-21-2008, 12:30 PM
So many people pointed out Rondo is underrated that he became overrated. Now he is underrated again as everyone realizes how overrated he is.
Real Men Wear Green
12-21-2008, 12:31 PM
He's an All-Star, and a top 5 pg. If you want to say that's not a "superstar," whatever, but it's completely subjective.
Rondo being a top 5 PG would make him overrated. Unless you werent serious.
Real Men Wear Green
12-21-2008, 12:44 PM
Rondo being a top 5 PG would make him overrated. Unless you werent serious.
I was talking about Tony Parker.
Rondo being a top 5 PG would make him overrated. Unless you werent serious.
He was talking about Parker. Being top 5, which makes him a superstar in his opinion.
If that would actually make sense we'd have 25 or more superstars in the NBA.
Real Men Wear Green
12-21-2008, 12:52 PM
It wasn't the only reason. Parker's hugely famous, has won Championships, has a Finals MVP award, and as mentioned, is an All-Star.
The term superstar gets thrown around too easy nowadays.
pete's montreux
12-21-2008, 01:01 PM
Plus he's married to Eva Longoria. If that ain't a superstar, then I don't know what is.
Marc Jaric is a superstar too then.
pete's montreux
12-21-2008, 01:08 PM
Marc Jaric is a superstar too then.
Hell yeah!
http://tcarther.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/adriana_lima.jpg
AItheAnswer3
12-21-2008, 02:25 PM
He's an All-Star, and a top 5 pg. If you want to say that's not a "superstar," whatever, but it's completely subjective.
Eh, I wouldn't call him a superstar. He's an all-star caliber player at best. IMO, the term "superstar" means, a player who has the ability to carry a franchise ala Duncan, LeBron, Wade etc. Tony Parker isn't the leader of the Spurs. He's the 2nd fiddle to Duncan and on the level of Manu. You can say he has the potential to be a superstar.
montaownedu
12-21-2008, 10:45 PM
bump for another career high in points for Rondo
Mateo
12-21-2008, 10:48 PM
Rondo might not be a superstar but he's definitely not overrated. What a player.
montaownedu
12-21-2008, 11:55 PM
Lots of haters avoiding this thread tonight
stephanieg
12-22-2008, 12:03 AM
What is it about D'Antoni that makes pick and rolls so comically effective against his teams? I too could have gotten six layups in a row -- and while wearing a skirt, the way the Knicks were "defending."
Since the game vs NY where the Celtics were without KG Rondo has avg
14.0 PPG
8 1 APG
5.9 RPG
2.58 SPG
58% FG%
31.7 MPG
The Celtics offense has benefited a lot from the progression of Rondo in the beginning of the year they were in the bottom 5 in offensive efficiency. It has been nice to witness Rondo play with the confidence he has now. He had shown flashes the past 2 season prior to this one but consistency was always the issue. With this 17 game stretch the degree that I'm concerned about his consistency has been lowered but not quite eliminated.
ukplayer4
12-22-2008, 08:11 AM
lol, rondo is having like the best stretch of play of his entire career. he fits the celts well and he is much better knowing where everyone is gonna be on offense this year than last. in a different team i dont think he averages as many assists, he is ridiculously talented physically so i still say hed get alot of steals and even thoe he cant shoot hed still score, probably more so with a weaker team. but he really does make silly plays at times still.
i don't think he's overrated. i think he's generally rated where he should be. i always viewed him as a pretty good player for the role he's performing. actually, he probably turned out better than i thought he'd be. but the consensus is that he's just alright, not a superstar. you can trust him with the ball and let him handle duties and fit in with the veterans, but no one expects him to be a freak and dominate or whatever. he's solid.
Mathius
12-22-2008, 03:06 PM
None of those players you mentioned compares to Rondo. None of them played such a big role and heavy minutes for good teams. :confusedshrug: It should be easy, the way you bring it. I'm still waiting for names.
Oh I'm sorry, I misread what you said. I thought you were talking about players who were hyped in their first couple of seasons for their contributions and promise and then given up on.
You want guys like Robert Horry, who contribute to championship teams and then disappear after 3-4 years and become solid nobodies.
And just how big of a list do you expect there to be when there have been only 6 or 7 teams that have actually won the championship in the last 15-20 years?
Mathius
Oh I'm sorry, I misread what you said. I thought you were talking about players who were hyped in their first couple of seasons for their contributions and promise and then given up on.
You want guys like Robert Horry, who contribute to championship teams and then disappear after 3-4 years and become solid nobodies.
And just how big of a list do you expect there to be when there have been only 6 or 7 teams that have actually won the championship in the last 15-20 years?
Mathius
That's 1 guy in Horry who was 24 and had 3 years experience under his belt, and actually changed his game a lot since then. And really, did you call Robert Horry a nobody?
Still, the one exception should prove that it's wrong to expect players who are 22 years of age, playing a big role on good teams to actually improve along the road, even given the fact they get loads of experience? Ok cool.
Rondon is going to eat the Lakers alive on christmas day. he has been beasting.
Phil's gonna try to put Kobe on him again :oldlol:
Mathius
12-22-2008, 09:49 PM
That's 1 guy in Horry who was 24 and had 3 years experience under his belt, and actually changed his game a lot since then. And really, did you call Robert Horry a nobody?
Yes, Robert Horry is a nobody. He is a scrub who has proven to be a clutch shooter when called upon. He was drafted a the "next Scottie Pippen" and showed all signs of living up to that in Houston and then promptly disappeared. His only claim to fame is riding along for championship rings.
Still, the one exception should prove that it's wrong to expect players who are 22 years of age, playing a big role on good teams to actually improve along the road, even given the fact they get loads of experience? Ok cool.
No sh*t for brains. My whole point was not to EXPECT anything. You chose to ask for an example that is highly unlikely in the first place, which proves my point anyways. You shouldn't expect these things from the word "go" because the odds of having a rookie contribute on a championship team are next to nil in the first place.
You can probably count on one hand the # of rookies who have had ANYTHING to do with winning a championship since Magic. Irregardless, where did you come up with the challenge that the person had to be a rookie in the first place? Rondo was no rookie last year.
Mathius
stephanieg
12-22-2008, 09:51 PM
Rondo should be in the ASG because he would wow the crowd with his behind the back fake (AKA every time he drives) and his falling to the ground awkwardly and looking like he's going to shatter his skull move.
Mississippi
01-02-2009, 12:11 AM
Just imagine if the Celtics had Mario Chalmers.
Biddy77
01-02-2009, 12:38 AM
Not saying he's a bad player or anything, but he's definitely not what he's hyped up to be. I've been hearing people saying that he's an allstar this year and I think that is ridiculous. Hell I think Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West and Allen Ray would look like allstars next to Garnett, Pierce and Allen. At least those three guards can actually shoot the ball. Rondo passes up on so many open looks which he should be taken. Maybe I haven't seen enough to really say, but from what I've seen he's nowhere near an allstar caliber guard just yet.
saywhat?!
how did that get past people?
telfair couldn't shoot the ball with a gun in his right hand if he held the ball in his left.
barbaroi
01-02-2009, 12:40 AM
saywhat?!
how did that get past people?
telfair couldn't shoot the ball with a gun in his right hand if he held the ball in his left.
And rondo can? He's shooting like 23% on jump shots. Telfair is shooting 41% on jumpers; it's nothing great but it's better than rondo by far.
Biddy77
01-02-2009, 12:43 AM
And rondo can? he's shooting like 23% on jump shots.
read the highlighted parts. i'm not saying Rondo can shoot. i'm refuting that the OP said "AT LEAST THOSE THREE GUARDS CAN SHOOT" when one of the 3 guards he named was Telfair.
there are multiple reasons Telfair isn't sticking anywhere. people are picking him up based on perceived potential, then figuring out very quickly that he is terrible.
Rondo is steady and gets the job done. am i saying he's great? nope. i think that term is thrown around WAY too loosely.
Mississippi
01-02-2009, 12:48 AM
saywhat?!
how did that get past people?
telfair couldn't shoot the ball with a gun in his right hand if he held the ball in his left.
Telfair actually has range and can make the open shot unlike Rondo.
Rondo is a complete liability in terms of shooting, and he will cost Boston the title if they make it to the Finals again, since they'll be playing 4-on-5 vs. LA again on offense. Mark my words.
Rondon is going to eat the Lakers alive on christmas day. he has been beasting.
Phil's gonna try to put Kobe on him again :oldlol:...lol
pete's montreux
01-02-2009, 12:50 AM
I would trade Rondo for Glen Davis straight up.
Jacks3
01-02-2009, 12:56 AM
Rondon is going to eat the Lakers alive on christmas day. he has been beasting.
Phil's gonna try to put Kobe on him again :oldlol:
Fail.
:roll:
Biddy77
01-02-2009, 01:03 AM
Telfair actually has range and can make the open shot unlike Rondo.
ok, i'll throw out his career numbers and just look at this season so we can account for time to develop--that does help somewhat.
he's .321 from the floor, .333 from the line. that's the second best 3% of his career, and... the worst total shooting % of his career. being able to cover the distance from the line to the basket doesn't = 'having range'. imo, you can't make the claim of 'having range' until you shoot it well enough to inspire your coaches to say "you need to take that shot".
sure, Rondo shoots below 30% from 3 (.263), but... his overall fg% is .523. at least he seems to know what his limitations are.
Celts34
01-02-2009, 01:17 AM
Telfair actually has range and can make the open shot unlike Rondo.
He just plays zero defense. Gets wiped out on every single pick and roll, and couldn't keep Mike Biby in front of him. But he sure can hit 2 out of every five jumpers he'll take:applause:
sure, Rondo shoots below 30% from 3 (.263), but... his overall fg% is .523. at least he seems to know what his limitations are.
His limitations -- and they are enormous -- will cost Boston the title this year. You can go to any rec center or Y in the country and pick out half a dozen guys who can shoot better than Rondo. That's sad.
Celts34
01-02-2009, 01:31 AM
His limitations -- and they are enormous -- will cost Boston the title this year. You can go to any rec center or Y in the country and pick out half a dozen guys who can shoot better than Rondo. That's sad.
And somehow they not only managed to win the Championship last season. But have won almost 80% of their regular season games in the last year and a half:oldlol:
Biddy77
01-02-2009, 01:44 AM
His limitations -- and they are enormous -- will cost Boston the title this year. You can go to any rec center or Y in the country and pick out half a dozen guys who can shoot better than Rondo. That's sad.
same limitation he had last year. same limitation avery johnson had. same limitation "_Ason Kidd" had leading the Nets to the Finals.
seewhati'msayin'?
And somehow they not only managed to win the Championship last season. But have won almost 80% of their regular season games in the last year and a half:oldlol:
The truth of what I said will be borne out in the months to come. They will not be able to beat LA with Rondo, because LA will just play their gimmick defense on him and it'll be 4-on-5 all day.
same limitation he had last year. same limitation avery johnson had. same limitation "_Ason Kidd" had leading the Nets to the Finals.
seewhati'msayin'?
Avery Johnson was a MUCH better shooter than Rondo. Kidd was better than Rondo as well, though still sub-par.
We'll just wait and see who's right about this liability.
Celts34
01-02-2009, 01:50 AM
The truth of what I said will be borne out in the months to come. They will not be able to beat LA with Rondo, because LA will just play their gimmick defense on him and it'll be 4-on-5 all day.
Because they played him so differently six months ago?? That defense was not really all that unique to the Lakers, everyone outside of the Hawks played him that way last year in the playoffs. Nobody more blatant than the Cavs. I mean the Cavs used Rondo' guy basically to double Paul and Ray every trip down
Biddy77
01-02-2009, 01:56 AM
Avery Johnson was a MUCH better shooter than Rondo. Kidd was better than Rondo as well, though still sub-par.
We'll just wait and see who's right about this liability.
you know, the best 3% avery johnson had during his years with San Antonio is .231. we've seen that number in this very same thread. it's the 3% rondo is shooting right now. his general fg% throughout his time there never got as high as Rondo's is right now, and he peaked as a 13ppg scorer.
now... going beyond the numbers, i can tell you that Avery was a better jump shooter than Rondo--out to about 12 or 15 feet. past that, it's a wash. Rondo gets to the basket a LOT better than Avery ever did, and Avery was only a few % higher than Rondo from the foul line most seasons.
ball handling? assist-to-turnovers weren't much different. both of them manage a game well, have a good knack for when to push and when to slow it up, etc. they also both know their roles on the team quite well.
defensively? Rondo all the way.
i will give it to you that jason kidd was a lethal 3 point shooter compared to Rondo and AJ, and he killed them both from the line. still, his overall fg% during his tenure with New Jersey was at or BELOW .414 every season.
my point stands--all of those guys brought a lot more to the table than they gave away due to their shooting woes.
you know, the best 3% avery johnson had during his years with San Antonio is .231. we've seen that number in this very same thread. it's the 3% rondo is shooting right now. his general fg% throughout his time there never got as high as Rondo's is right now, and he peaked as a 13ppg scorer.
now... going beyond the numbers, i can tell you that Avery was a better jump shooter than Rondo--out to about 12 or 15 feet. past that, it's a wash. Rondo gets to the basket a LOT better than Avery ever did, and Avery was only a few % higher than Rondo from the foul line most seasons.
ball handling? assist-to-turnovers weren't much different. both of them manage a game well, have a good knack for when to push and when to slow it up, etc. they also both know their roles on the team quite well.
defensively? Rondo all the way.
i will give it to you that jason kidd was a lethal 3 point shooter compared to Rondo and AJ, and he killed them both from the line. still, his overall fg% during his tenure with New Jersey was at or BELOW .414 every season.
my point stands--all of those guys brought a lot more to the table than they gave away due to their shooting woes.
For what it's worth, I was talking about midrange shooting for Johnson (and Rondo, for that matter). Rondo can't hit the side of a barn from 12-20 feet.
Because they played him so differently six months ago??
No, but LA is a much better team, and will be a much better team in June, than they were in last year's Finals. That will make the difference.
JohnnySic
01-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Why does every Celtics-related thread turn into a Lakers thread? :confusedshrug:
Mississippi
01-02-2009, 01:42 PM
I didn't mean for that to happen. I just don't think he is an all star.
Mathius
01-02-2009, 03:22 PM
I didn't mean for that to happen. I just don't think he is an all star.
He's not. Mo Williams and Devin Harris are both playing better ball than him.
Which of course is the whole point of this thread. Some people act like he should be an all star. Bill Walton even said so. Which equates to the fact that he's ridiculously overrated.
It's like Dennis Scott playing in Orlando. Was Dennis Scott really worth 10-15ppg? No, but he played with Shaquille O'Neal. The defense had to double Shaq, but they couldn't leave Scott open as well... but with Nick Anderson on the team to shoot threes as well... and then later Penny Hardaway, and then Horace Grant who was good out to 20ft almost... You can't cover everyone.
Mathius
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