GOBB: "I think Wade is better (than LeBron), but that's another conversation"

[Poodle Bark]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter
Defender
Passer
Scorer
More eff
Leader
Has the better team



Now you go...

[GoStanford]

for once i agree with gobb

[dnyk1337]

Wade is liked by the refs more.
Wade has a better mid-range shot.

All I can think of. LeBron is better.

[chains5000]

:sleeping

[Richie2k6]

I think Wade is better than Lebron right now too...

[SilentObserver]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter
Defender
Passer
Scorer
More eff
Leader
Has the better team



Now you go...
:lol
Now go back to the basement.

[Poodle Bark]

F*ck a mid-range game. That's not a category.

LeBron is so clearly the better player, I'd off myself if I was somehow were proven wrong.

[Alan]

Wade does this better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4y8M7yDasQ

[starface]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..



Player.


end/thread

[Darius07]

lebron is the more dominating player and probably who most teams would pick before wade. Wade is more skilled though

[pete's montreux]

Mid Range game isn't really a category, but shooting is, and LeBron can't hit anything outside of 3 1/2 inches.

[dnyk1337]

F*ck a mid-range game. That's not a category.

LeBron is so clearly the better player, I'd off myself if I was somehow were proven wrong.

All the incredible talents of the NBA ever since the 80s have always had a mid-range game. Call me crazy, but that's one of the best things you can have in the NBA. You can't defend it. It's automatic.

[Poodle Bark]

No, I consider LeBron going to the rack strong more automatic than a Wade mid-range jumpshot.

[G-train]

I cant really seperate the two at the moment.

If I had to pick I'd say Lebron, because he can probabaly develop more than Wade will.

But right now its pretty close. I havent seen an athlete in the NBA like Lebron.. ever. But Wade is immensely skilled and athletic also.

[G-train]

No, I consider LeBron going to the rack strong more automatic than a Wade mid-range jumpshot.

how?

[omarnyc]

lebron is not only better then wade, he is the best player in the game

[Poodle Bark]

Ok..ok..ok, are people really going to argye against this statline:

27.5 ppg 6.8 rpg 6.3 asp 2.0 spg 1.2 bpg on 50.3% in 36 mpg with a paltry 2.4 to per game to match??

O'really?????????

[OneMoreSucka]

Wade is better because his ego is far smaller.

[Poodle Bark]

Plus I forgot to mention he's shooting 80% the freethrow line. Also he's on a 22-4 team that has the #1 off and # deff in the league.

Wow.

[ShowTime LA]

i'd rather have wade on my team.

he has a ring and finals mvp.

[Bean]

i'd rather have wade on my team.

he has a ring and finals mvp.

What difference does that make?

[bdreason]

Right now Wade is playing out of his mind!

However, I would still take LBJ over Wade if I had to choose today.

LeBron can play more positions, and is the more versatile and explosive player. Also, let's not forget that Wade has shown he's somewhat injury prone with his style of play... while LeBron has shown to be very sturdy.

Right now, I have LeBron #1 and Wade #2 in the league... so isn't arguing over who's better kind of ridiculous? They are both crazy good.

[Poodle Bark]

i'd rather have wade on my team.

he has a ring and finals mvp.
Great logic there. I'm sure LeBron would want a 33-year old Shaq rather than a 3--year old z.

And?

[hack_a_shaq]

Wade is playing better than Lebron as of now.

But he is completly babied by the refs. It almost disgust me to watch him play but the guy is effective.

:violin:

[hack_a_shaq]

Great logic there. I'm sure LeBron would want a 33-year old Shaq rather than a 3--year old z.

And?

33 year old shaq > Z (at any age)

:hammertime:

[ShowTime LA]

Great logic there. I'm sure LeBron would want a 33-year old Shaq rather than a 3--year old z.

And?


What do you expect? For Wade to win a championship by himself? tell me who's done this before.

[YAWN]

i think lebron is better. but not by much at all.

[Lebron23]

I'd take LeBron this year.

I'd take the 2008-09 Cavaliers over the 2005-06 Miami Heat.

Cavs are going to destroy the Miami Heat next week. ( Back to Back Pwnage)

[Day La Ghetto]

wades got style and grace, so much funner/better to watch to me. and hes the better player to me to

[InfiniteBaskets]

There's no question LeBron is the better athlete and at 6'8 he's going to play above the rim far more effectively than Wade when attacking the basket with his body. So that clean cut advantage will be what many people say makes LeBron better than Wade in the NBA game, regardless of how much better Wade is at drawing fouls (whether clean or not), shooting the mid-range, pump faking, coming off screens, finding the open man or using handles plus quickness to get to the rim.

So I'm not going to argue that point. But I wouldn't hesitate to say that Wade is the more skilled of the two.

[GOBB]

Poodle Poo, how does it feel to see others type "I feel Wade is better too" or even "Bron is better but not by that much". Tsk Tsk

Thread flopped like a Euro player does in a game.

[donsanchez306]

i hope bosh, wade and lebron could jump on team in the nba. just put money aside all equal contract prime years or 3 year contract. i dont care which team over half the league would have crazy cap.that team would define contender.

[jrong]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter
Defender
Passer
Scorer
More eff
Leader
Has the better team



Now you go...

LeBron may be better overall, but your list is ridiculous. LeBron and Wade are equal defenders (LeBron may be better on-ball; Wade is better off-ball), equal passers, and equal scorers (historically, Wade has taken fewer shots-- hence the fact that he has scored a few points per game less).

Wade has customarily been the better FT shooter, but this year LeBron is shooting better. So call that a push too.

LeBron is a better rebounder. Wade is a better outside shooter from anywhere inside the arc. They get to the rim equally well. LeBron takes better care of the basketball. Wade has thus far been the better big-game or at least playoff performer.

And what criteria do you use to say LeBron is a better leader? Because his team is better?

[Indian guy]

People do know that LeBron so far this season has the highest PER ever in league HISTORY? And he's doing it on a 22-4 team.

[Vragrant]

wades got style and grace, so much funner/better to watch to me. and hes the better player to me to

I know, Wade is such a beautiful player to watch. Wade is like a jaguar, and Lebron at times reminds me of a bull in a china shop. There really is no nuance to anything he does, but I guess some people like that. To me there is no doubt Wade is more skilled player. Plus, its funny how some say midrange is not a category. If Lebron's offensive repetoire was as refined as Wade's , and if he had the midrange game that Wade has (pullup jumpers, catching and shooting off screens, etc), the Spurs and Celtics would not pack the lane against him and force him to shoot jumpshots all the time.

I guess its just a preference I guess. Wade is a great athletic basketball player, whereas Lebron reminds me of a physically gifted athlete who just happens to be good at basketball. Plus I think Wade is a better playoff and big game performer than Lebron.

[Valliant13]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter
Defender
Passer
Scorer
More eff
Leader
Has the better team



Now you go...

Do you really expect to start a productive discussion like that? Is it so hard to say: Gobb, I disagree, and here is why.

[jrong]

People do know that LeBron so far this season has the highest PER ever in league HISTORY? And he's doing it on a 22-4 team.

His usage is down. Efficiency tends to go up as usage goes down.

Nevertheless, I do give LeBron extreme credit for the way he's playing this year (and that is something that it pains me to do). He's trusting his teammates in a way he never has before. And the explanation for that is not as simple as saying that this is the first year his team is good enough for him to trust. His game has shown a lot of maturation, and he's demonstrated that by the way he's playing within his team's offense instead of monopolizing it.

[GOBB]

People do know that LeBron so far this season has the highest PER ever in league HISTORY? And he's doing it on a 22-4 team.

What is PER and when did it become relevant?

[lilojmayo]

His usage is down. Efficiency tends to go up as usage goes down.

Nevertheless, I do give LeBron extreme credit for the way he's playing this year (and that is something that it pains me to do). He's trusting his teammates in a way he never has before. And the explanation for that is not as simple as saying that this is the first year his team is good enough for him to trust. His game has shown a lot of maturation, and he's demonstrated that by the way he's playing within his team's offense instead of monopolizing it.

bron usuage is down but its still at 31.5 which is the second highest in the NBA behind Dwade


Bron Per right now is 33.65. CP3 PER is 31.85 if the Season ended to day those 2 PERS would be the highest in NBA history and most ppl agree that this isnt even lebrons best statistical year shows the flaw in PER

[G-train]

What is PER and when did it become relevant?

Its a croc of poo.

[Valliant13]

Though I do think Lebron is the better player, as he is 6'8-6'9 guy that can play 4 postions, while Wade 6'3-6'4 combo that doesn't really have the range to be a proper 2.

Shooting: Close, neither are spectacular, and both tend to make it when it counts. Both also shoot more threes than they should given their percentage.

Defense: Lebron, just because he can defend more positions, so is unlikely to get caught in a mismatch on a switch. Wade has improved a lot this year, though.

Passing: Lebron, but it is arguable. Id say he has better court vision, and more able facilitate the teams offense (more willing passer). Wade is little more likely to try and do it all himself in key situations.

Clutchness: I'd actually give this to Wade, as he has proven more in the biggest moments.

Wade is fantastic, but Lebron brings a unique package of size, strength, speed, and skill to the table. He is also far, far, more durable.

[G-train]

Devin harris has a higher PER than Duncan, Bryant.

Big Z has ahigher PER than Dirk, Ming, Stoudemire, Bosh.

Matt Bonner has a higher PER than Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Calderon.

I could go on and on.

[lilojmayo]

Though I do think Lebron is the better player, as he is 6'8-6'9 guy that can play 4 postions, while Wade 6'3-6'4 combo that doesn't really have the range to be a proper 2.

Shooting: Close, neither are spectacular, and both tend to make it when it counts. Both also shoot more threes than they should given their percentage.

Defense: Lebron, just because he can defend more positions, so is unlikely to get caught in a mismatch on a switch. Wade has improved a lot this year, though.

Passing: Lebron, but it is arguable. Id say he has better court vision, and more able facilitate the teams offense (more willing passer). Wade is little more likely to try and do it all himself in key situations.

Clutchness: I'd actually give this to Wade, as he has proven more in the biggest moments.

Wade is fantastic, but Lebron brings a unique package of size, strength, speed, and skill to the table. He is also far, far, more durable.


wat with this thread made has everyone agreed Lebron is better than Kobe now

[big baller]

I think Wade is better than Bron too.

[omarnyc]

There's no question LeBron is the better athlete and at 6'8 he's going to play above the rim far more effectively than Wade when attacking the basket with his body. So that clean cut advantage will be what many people say makes LeBron better than Wade in the NBA game, regardless of how much better Wade is at drawing fouls (whether clean or not), shooting the mid-range, pump faking, coming off screens, finding the open man or using handles plus quickness to get to the rim.

So I'm not going to argue that point. But I wouldn't hesitate to say that Wade is the more skilled of the two.

you think wade is better at finding the open man?

[cdot11]

lebron is a 6'9 275 lb prime darius miles.

[juju151111]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooterDefender
Passer
Scorer
More eff
Leader
Has the better team



Now you go...
:lol :oldlol:

[Mamba]

ok in all honesty. the ISH users that have a little thing in there mind called logic.

does anyone honestly believe wade is better then lebron? or is this just all the kobe homers moving onto wade because lebron has beaten out kobe.

seriously lebron was in the same position wade is this year, and bron averaged 30-8-8. whilst when d wade does it everyone is on there knees ready to munch.

ISH in my mind is just going to become a lebron hatefest.

[big baller]

ok in all honesty. the ISH users that have a little thing in there mind called logic.

does anyone honestly believe wade is better then lebron? or is this just all the kobe homers moving onto wade because lebron has beaten out kobe.

seriously lebron was in the same position wade is this year, and bron averaged 30-8-8. whilst when d wade does it everyone is on there knees ready to munch.

ISH in my mind is just going to become a lebron hatefest.

I am a huge Kobe fan, but I would take Wade over him...any day really.

[Mamba]

I am a huge Kobe fan, but I would take Wade over him...any day really.
ok so that makes sense ur an actual wade fan.

what about the other 6 billion posters on here.

[jrong]

ok in all honesty. the ISH users that have a little thing in there mind called logic.

does anyone honestly believe wade is better then lebron? or is this just all the kobe homers moving onto wade because lebron has beaten out kobe.

seriously lebron was in the same position wade is this year, and bron averaged 30-8-8. whilst when d wade does it everyone is on there knees ready to munch.

ISH in my mind is just going to become a lebron hatefest.

I can't speak for all Wade fans, but what irritates me to no end is how some fans of LeBron treat it like it's a foregone conclusion that he's a better player. I have no problem if people claim James is better, but don't pretend that Wade doesn't have an argument.

James does some things better. Wade does some things better. Most regular seasons, Wade has had slightly less impressive stats. Except if you look closer, Wade's stats are really just as impressive. A few less points on a few less shots. Equal assists. Fewer rebounds. But, better "secondary" stats.

And then in the playoffs, Wade has hands-down been the better performer.

Still, at this point, I'd put James just in front of Wade. But, don't act like it's not damn close. LeBron has done nothing to separate himself except remain healthier throughout his career.

[OneMoreSucka]

lebron is a 6'9 275 lb prime darius miles.
He's not 275.

[Mamba]

I can't speak for all Wade fans, but what irritates me to no end is how some fans of LeBron treat it like it's a foregone conclusion that he's a better player. .

listen im not saying its arguable but for the past few years lebron has just straight out dominated wade in every single statistical category and wade had alot of help from shaq down low during the finals to earn that ring. im not saying wade isn't number 2, id say wade is better then kobe atm but lebron has finally gotten a winning record, something alot of fans said they would never expect to see out of lebron because he was supposedly too selfish, but now he has made the most out of his team and wade is suddenly better. come on people we know that lebron is better for christs sakes he's playing less then wade and is on par with wades stats, not to mention his team has a 22-4 record.



And then in the playoffs, Wade has hands-down been the better performer.

really? i wouldn't say hands down, but id say he's been a touch better. the ring really helps this statement. but i still think these cavs would easily beat those mavs.

[G-train]

These Cavs would not easily beat those Mav's.
It would probably be similar in that they could not contain Lebron, much like they could not stop Wade.

[GOBB]

Dont hate Bron. Just think Dwayne Wade is better. Its arguable. Nuff said.

[plowking]

listen im not saying its arguable but for the past few years lebron has just straight out dominated wade in every single statistical category and wade had alot of help from shaq down low during the finals to earn that ring. im not saying wade isn't number 2, id say wade is better then kobe atm but lebron has finally gotten a winning record, something alot of fans said they would never expect to see out of lebron because he was supposedly too selfish, but now he has made the most out of his team and wade is suddenly better. come on people we know that lebron is better for christs sakes he's playing less then wade and is on par with wades stats, not to mention his team has a 22-4 record.



really? i wouldn't say hands down, but id say he's been a touch better. the ring really helps this statement. but i still think these cavs would easily beat those mavs.


LOL.

He's playing 1 minutes less then Wade a game. So the stats are in favor of Wade.

Wade has easliy been the better playoff performer. Lebron's stats go down in the playoffs and shoots a horrible percentage from the field. Furthermore, Wade has made the playoffs more times, has a ring, and one of the greatest finals performances ever.

[Jacks3]

Kobe>Lebron>Wade

[Mdog1]

:lol
Now go back to the basement.
I think he is shooting about 5% higher. So what are you alking about?

[Dbrog]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter Barely
Defender Highly debatable (avgs more steals AND blocks)
Passer Debatable (Wade avgs more dimes but has more TOs)

Scorer Highly debatable (focus of all defenses cause team sucks and still avgs more)

More eff Debatable (about equal)
Leader (probably Bronners takes it)
Has the better team (This is not to Brons favor in this debate. Better team = easier for player to get his)



Now you go...

I've taken the liberty to express my beliefs

[Poodle Bark]

If you see jrong, you know Wade is on a hot streak.

Like clockwork.

[Kiss Murder]

6'8. 275.
Speed. Agility. Quickness.
Brute Strength.

LeBron James.
I am a witness.

[plowking]

I think he is shooting about 5% higher. So what are you alking about?

Lebron isn't a better FT shooter then Wade. This is the first year he has had a higher FT % then Wade. The differnce this year is like 3 %, not nearly enough to say to me he's broken a trend and that he is a better FT shooter then Wade.

[plowking]

If you see jrong, you know Wade is on a hot streak.

Like clockwork.

What hot streak?

[Mdog1]

Lebron isn't a better FT shooter then Wade. This is the first year he has had a higher FT % then Wade. The differnce this year is like 3 %, not nearly enough to say to me he's broken a trend and that he is a better FT shooter then Wade.
Yeah but didn't he start the year at like 60%? So he has really brought it up as the season progresses. I don't care about convincing you BTW. I don't have to. You can't deny FACTS and numbers are facts.

[plowking]

Yeah but didn't he start the year at like 60%? So he has really brought it up as the season progresses. I don't care about convincing you BTW. I don't have to. You can't deny FACTS and numbers are facts.

Sure can't deny facts.

Wade has scoring, assists, steals and blocks over Lebron.

[beasted86]

Wade does this better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4y8M7yDasQ

Yeah, but Wade also does this better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtstzUoVU34

Why don't we compare LeBron?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDRiIV3IicA

[plowking]

Yeah but didn't he start the year at like 60%? So he has really brought it up as the season progresses. I don't care about convincing you BTW. I don't have to. You can't deny FACTS and numbers are facts.


Lebron has improved, greatly. Defense, shooting, everything pretty much.

He's amazing to watch, and I really can't be bothered arguing anymore about this. In two more years it will be Lebron vs ....., then Lebron vs the next big thing.

Lebron might have the longest period on top of basketball if he continues to get better and hold up well in his 30's.

[C-Webb4]

Wade is better at drawing fouls... Whether they are all warranted or not, he still does it well.. And therefore i'd rather have the ball in the hands of Dwayne Wade with the game on the line.

[Human Error]

Ok clown, let's have it. You go first, no, I'll start it off.

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter
Defender
Passer
Scorer
More eff
Leader
Has the better team



Now you go...
Man, put down the pipe already. I have no problem saying LeBron is better than Wade, but your reasonings are just absolutely flawed.

Wade is a better free throw shooter than LeBron.
Wade is as good as LeBron defensively.
Wade is the league's leading scorer at this point.
Wade shoots higher percentage from the field = more efficiency.
Wade won the championship as the best player on the team.

[Mdog1]

Lebron has improved, greatly. Defense, shooting, everything pretty much.

He's amazing to watch, and I really can't be bothered arguing anymore about this. In two more years it will be Lebron vs ....., then Lebron vs the next big thing.

Lebron might have the longest period on top of basketball if he continues to get better and hold up well in his 30's.
Yeah it starts at 23 and could last until 30-33 or longer who knows with this kid. When he slips down to PF as he ages his athletecism will become less important. That is why his versatility is so important for his career. He will go down as a top 5 if he can reamain healthy.

[Mdog1]

Man, put down the pipe already. I have no problem saying LeBron is better than Wade, but your reasonings are just absolutely flawed.

Wade is a better free throw shooter than LeBron.
Wade is as good as LeBron defensively.
Wade is the league's leading scorer at this point.
Wade shoots higher percentage from the field = more efficiency.
Wade won the championship as the best player on the team.
Stopped reading after that. Why do people think this? Is it because LBJ is actually shooting a better % this year?

[juju151111]

Stopped reading after that. Why do people think this? Is it because LBJ is actually shooting a better % this year?
LOL this is the only season LJ has shot a better FT%.Calm down LJ has to to do some more things to be on Dwade level.

[Human Error]

Stopped reading after that. Why do people think this? Is it because LBJ is actually shooting a better % this year?
Ok, but LeBron is a career 73% free throw shooter. He's shooting at a higher clip now but it's still a little too early to safely say that he's a better free throw shooter than Wade.

And as I just checked, LeBron's FG% is higher than Wade's now. But Wade draws more fouls so I'd say their efficiency is about even.

Don't get me wrong though, overall I think LeBron is better, but that's not because he's a better free throw shooter than Wade.

[Mikaiel]

I have no real opinion on that matter. I don't care about those things. But there are a lot of flawed arguments here. Just because one is the more complete player does not mean he's better ...

[beasted86]

Stopped reading after that. Why do people think this? Is it because LBJ is actually shooting a better % this year?

This is the typical homer's stance where they use the current season stats when its deemed convenient. 25 games doesn't mean a whole lot at all.

Pierce is also shooting only 35% from 3PT, does this suddenly make him a bad 3PT shooter? Carmelo is only averaging 20 PPG, does this suddenly make guys like Crawford & Al Harrington better scorers?

Shall I continue making examples with this ass backwards logic with only 25 games so far?

[Poodle Bark]

What's the point of this? Its obvious that Wade Fan is becoming Kobe Fan more and more by the day.

They position their arguments in the dismissive and flaunt subjectivity as fact.

LeBron has TWO 30/7/6 seasons under his belt and he's three years younger than Wade is. But Wade Fan will come back and say Wade has a ring.

You say LeBron current has the highest PER rating of all time, and Wade Fan will say that's not impressive cause PER is wack.

You say LeBron has a team 23-4 and Wade Fan will say he can't help who he plays with, and therefore should be excused from leading a .500 team.

But then you say LeBron hasnt been on a .500 or worse team since his rookie year, Wade Fan will say LeBron has never played with the dearth of talent on the Heat right now.

I mean, the excuses go on and on and on...

[Mdog1]

This is the typical homer's stance where they use the current season stats when its deemed convenient. 25 games doesn't mean a whole lot at all.

Pierce is also shooting only 35% from 3PT, does this suddenly make him a bad 3PT shooter? Carmelo is only averaging 20 PPG, does this suddenly make guys like Crawford & Al Harrington better scorers?

Shall I continue making examples with this ass backwards logic with only 25 games so far?
Well what does the past have to do with FT shooting now? I mean I have no problem admitting Wade has been a better FT shooter until this year, but when people make arguments that have nothing to back it up is when I get mad and reply. LeBron is a better shooter right now. That is it.

[Mdog1]

What's the point of this? Its obvious that Wade Fan is becoming Kobe Fan more and more by the day.

They position their arguments in the dismissive and flaunt subjectivity as fact.

LeBron has TWO 30/7/6 seasons under his belt and he's three years younger than Wade is. But Wade Fan will come back and say Wade has a ring.

You say LeBron current has the highest PER rating of all time, and Wade Fan will say that's not impressive cause PER is wack.

You say LeBron has a team 23-4 and Wade Fan will say he can't help who he plays with, and therefore should be excused from leading a .500 team.

But then you say LeBron hasnt been on a .500 or worse team since his rookie year, Wade Fan will say LeBron has never played with the dearth of talent on the Heat right now.

I mean, the excuses go on and on and on...
Well I agree, but the Wade fan will never be as bad as the Kobe fan (at least I certainly hope not :eek: ). The Kobe fan tries to make an argument with everything. For example LeBron is a better driver. The Kobe fan says Kobe is a clutch shooter. What the hell does KB being clutch have to do with driving?

[GOBB]

Wade vs Bron is like Kobe vs Tmac was. The only thing everyone in here needs to do is acknowledge the margin of who is better than the other isnt far. Its close. You can pick Bron and I'll pick Wade. Neither side will see nor agree with one another. Sensible fans will acknowledge however each others arguement and agree to disagree. Why? Because its that close.

Nuff said.

[beasted86]

What's the point of this? Its obvious that Wade Fan is becoming Kobe Fan more and more by the day.

They position their arguments in the dismissive and flaunt subjectivity as fact.
LeBron has TWO 30/7/6 seasons under his belt and he's three years younger than Wade is. But Wade Fan will come back and say Wade has a ring.

You say LeBron current has the highest PER rating of all time, and Wade Fan will say that's not impressive cause PER is wack.

You say LeBron has a team 23-4 and Wade Fans will say he can't help who he plays with, and therefore should be excused from leading a .500 team.

But then you say LeBron hasnt been on a .500 or worse team since his rookie year, Wade Fan will say LeBron has never played with the dearth of talent on the Heat right now.

I mean, the excuses go on and on and on...

You could have saved yourself alot of time and stopped at the line that says:
What's the point of this?

Because you then went on to stick a foot in your mouth a couple times. Wade had a 35 P.E.R. through the first 15 games of the season... what's so different about 10 more games that makes LeBron's 33 "official".

Then you go on to say he's 3 years younger...and has 30+ point seasons, yet Wade has career better efficiency in shooting, and less shot attempts (21 vs 17), while only having 3 less points.

Then you also add LeBron's current team record is 23-4, but if you looked up their career records since they been in the NBA, Wade is pretty equal, even including last season's record where he didn't play many games: 227-210 Heat vs. 244-192 Cavs....(And BTW, LeBron's rookie season record was 35-47, that's sub .500 buck-o)

So as I said, this whole arguement is pointless. Every homer will have their perception and twist the stats or current record, or current team, etc... to fit their arguement. I myself don't care who's the best, as long as my team is winning, you can keep the title of "most points" or higher P.E.R. etc... Anytime I throw out comments in these type of threads (LeBron vs. Wade vs. Kobe) its only to rile up the homers, but otherwise I really think they are about equal.

[Undisputed]

I think Lebron is the better player, but I like watching Wade much more.

[loot]

LeBron is the better..

Free throw shooter is he?
Defender is he?
Passer is he?
Scorer
More eff is he?
Leader is he?
Has the better team so? you just ran out of crap so you made up some more right?



Now you go...and please stay away



then again you made this account just to post such crap.

[raid09]

Wade vs Bron is like Kobe vs Tmac was. The only thing everyone in here needs to do is acknowledge the margin of who is better than the other isnt far. Its close. You can pick Bron and I'll pick Wade. Neither side will see nor agree with one another. Sensible fans will acknowledge however each others arguement and agree to disagree. Why? Because its that close.

Nuff said.

Exactly. Neither have separated himself from the other enough to make a swaying argument, statistically or otherwise. For every statistic someone posts about Wade, I can post a different one about LeBron, and vice versa.

As for beasted86 comments about it being 25 games into the season - I agree, but: Why are you so quick to post that when someone posts a stat about LeBron? When people were making threads about Wade's PER, blocks, FG% and steals when they were higher than LeBron's just 13 games in, you acted like they were a valid argument.

[LJJ]

I still think that LeBron is better than Wade.

But I feel there is one area where Wade has a huge advantage on LeBron. LeBron is always LeBron, whereas Wade can step up.

[Posts Penyeach]

Wade vs Bron is like Kobe vs Tmac was. The only thing everyone in here needs to do is acknowledge the margin of who is better than the other isnt far. Its close. You can pick Bron and I'll pick Wade. Neither side will see nor agree with one another. Sensible fans will acknowledge however each others arguement and agree to disagree. Why? Because its that close.

Nuff said.
Pretty much /thread, I think. You could say D Wade was the best player in the NBA and I wouldn't look at you weird. If you were to say Lebron was the best player in the NBA, though, I'd say you're right.

Why: mainly defense and size and health. I just don't see what Wade does that makes up for those 3 things. Take those 3 things away and then you basically have a wash.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wade vs Bron is like Kobe vs Tmac was. The only thing everyone in here needs to do is acknowledge the margin of who is better than the other isnt far. Its close. You can pick Bron and I'll pick Wade. Neither side will see nor agree with one another. Sensible fans will acknowledge however each others arguement and agree to disagree. Why? Because its that close.

Nuff said.
Are you taking durability into account or are you speaking of both players when they are 100-percent? Maybe a successful argument can be made for Wade, but it is damn difficult to simply overlook his injury problems the last few years and, at the same time, dismiss LeBron's almost invincible history.

Wade has not played more than 50 games since 2005-06. For a player that is a month away from turning 27 years old, seasons of 50 and 49 games are an issue. In fact, he has only played more than 56 games in two of his five NBA seasons.

Maybe this year will see Dwyane become a steady player that doesn't miss much time, but his relatively small frame does take a beating when factoring in his physical style of play. I said early in his career that I would be surprised if his body could hold up on the NBA level taking as many hits and falls as he does. His style of play is effective but difficult to maintain without serious injury. If history is a judge, he will suffer a debilitating setback at some point this year.

I hope I'm wrong, because the more games that Wade plays, the better it is for the association. But, we can't simply avoid what has become a bit of trend in Dwyane's career thus far.

On the other hand, LeBron is unbelievably durable. While Wade's frame struggles to hold up to his physical slashing style, LeBron's huge 6-foot-8, 260 pound body is built to endure the kind of punishment that a player of his physicality will face on a nightly basis in this league.

LeBron has averaged 40 or more minutes per game in each of his five regular seasons in the NBA. That number alone is insane. Now factor in that he has AVERAGED over 78 games played in the regular season during the course of his career.

That is incredible durability, especially when you take into account his style of play.

So, when evaluating LeBron and Dwyane, these numbers must be taken into account. As important or even moreso than statistics like points, rebounds, assists, etc. is games and minutes played. After all, it doesn't matter how good you are if you can only keep that high level of play up for short spurts during the course of the season.

Wade has been unreal so far this season, but he is going to have to prove that he can keep this kind of production up for an entire season and then the playoffs. LeBron has done that several times in his career.

Hell... last year, LeBron averaged 30/8/7 for 40+ minutes per game over the course of 75 games. His minutes are down this year for obvious reasons, but his history of durability leads me to believe that, if the Cavs needed him to be on the floor more, his production wouldn't suffer in the least.

To me, this is the most glaring difference between the two players over the course of their five years in the league... it can't be overlooked.

[loot]

Are you taking durability into account or are you speaking of both players when they are 100-percent? Maybe a successful argument can be made for Wade, but it is damn difficult to simply overlook his injury problems the last few years and, at the same time, dismiss LeBron's almost invincible history.

Wade has not played more than 50 games since 2005-06. For a player that is a month away from turning 27 years old, seasons of 50 and 49 games are an issue. In fact, he has only played more than 56 games in two of his five NBA seasons.

Maybe this year will see Dwyane become a steady player that doesn't miss much time, but his relatively small frame does take a beating when factoring in his physical style of play. I said early in his career that I would be surprised if his body could hold up on the NBA level taking as many hits and falls as he does. His style of play is effective but difficult to maintain without serious injury. If history is a judge, he will suffer a debilitating setback at some point this year.

I hope I'm wrong, because the more games that Wade plays, the better it is for the association. But, we can't simply avoid what has become a bit of trend in Dwyane's career thus far.

On the other hand, LeBron is unbelievably durable. While Wade's frame struggles to hold up to his physical slashing style, LeBron's huge 6-foot-8, 260 pound body is built to endure the kind of punishment that a player of his physicality will face on a nightly basis in this league.

LeBron has averaged 40 or more minutes per game in each of his five regular seasons in the NBA. That number alone is insane. Now factor in that he has AVERAGED over 78 games played in the regular season during the course of his career.

That is incredible durability, especially when you take into account his style of play.

So, when evaluating LeBron and Dwyane, these numbers must be taken into account. As important or even moreso than statistics like points, rebounds, assists, etc. is games and minutes played. After all, it doesn't matter how good you are if you can only keep that high level of play up for short spurts during the course of the season.

Wade has been unreal so far this season, but he is going to have to prove that he can keep this kind of production up for an entire season and then the playoffs. LeBron has done that several times in his career.

Hell... last year, LeBron averaged 30/8/7 for 40+ minutes per game over the course of 75 games. His minutes are down this year for obvious reasons, but his history of durability leads me to believe that, if the Cavs needed him to be on the floor more, his production wouldn't suffer in the least.

To me, this is the most glaring difference between the two players over the course of their five years in the league... it can't be overlooked.


And still Wade got his ring which account for something.

[jrong]

I have to reply to this.


listen im not saying its arguable but for the past few years lebron has just straight out dominated wade in every single statistical category

Correction. LAST YEAR LeBron dominated Wade statistically, when Wade played with one arm and one leg essentially. But, in 06 - 07, Wade had better stats, even though he played the last twenty or so games after rushing back from the torn shoulder. Before the injury, Wade's stats were much better, as LeBron had a down year for him and Wade was at 30/5/8 until getting hurt. And he still led the league in PER for the season even though he played hurt for the last couple months.

Every other year, if you look at their stats, Wade has been just behind Bron in the regular season-- until you look more closely at their stats and see he's not behind at all.

Example: '05 - '06 (I'm rounding their stats to the nearest single digit)

James: 31/7/7.... (23 FGA)
Wade: 27/6/7 (19 FGA)

Wade also had higher FGA%, FTA%, steals, and blocks, all while playing fewer minutes.


and wade had alot of help from shaq down low during the finals to earn that ring.

He had help from Shaq to get to the Finals. Shaq contributed very minimally during the Finals themselves. Not only was he outscored by Antoine Walker, but according to 82games, he had the lowest +/- on the team. If Shaq was "helping Wade score" while he was on the floor, as so many people like to say, his plus/minus should have been very good. But, anybody who actually paid attention during that series is aware that Shaq was more often than not on the bench in the fourth quarter, when Wade was taking over.


really? i wouldn't say hands down, but id say he's been a touch better.

Actually, no, Wade has easily been better in the playoffs. Wade has only had one bad playoff series, and that was vs. the Bulls after his shoulder injury.

LeBron, meanwhile, has had two wretched series, which just happened to come in the biggest series of his life. And Wade's series against the Bulls was still better than LeBron's performance against the Spurs.

Wade's playoff resume goes FAR beyond the Finals, however. Everything LeBron has been hyped to the extreme for doing in the postseason, Wade has done at an earlier point in his career.

Two game-winners in first playoff series?

Check: Games one and five against the NO Hornets, rookie season

Pushed the best regular season team in the league hard in the ECSF in first playoff year?

Check: Indiana Pacers series, rookie season

Extended Pistons to seven games in first playoff matchup?

Check: ECF, second season (Shaq's effectiveness was severely limited due to injury, and Heat would have very probably made the Finals had Wade himself not torn his abdominals in Game 5, missed Game 6, and played with the torn muscle in Game 7)

Dominating stats in playoff series vs. Wizards?

Check: 31/8/7, second season (Shaq sat out half the series injured)

Historic numbers in playoff series?

Check:

Nets series, second year (one of few players in league history to average at least 25/8/6/50% for a series)

Pistons series, third year (highest playoff series FG% ever for a guard-- 62%)


Notice I didn't even mention the championship in this list? That's because the Finals weren't even his best series. So, yes, Wade has CLEARLY been better in the playoffs than LeBron.

[Mamba]

What's the point of this? Its obvious that Wade Fan is becoming Kobe Fan more and more by the day.

They position their arguments in the dismissive and flaunt subjectivity as fact.

LeBron has TWO 30/7/6 seasons under his belt and he's three years younger than Wade is. But Wade Fan will come back and say Wade has a ring.

You say LeBron current has the highest PER rating of all time, and Wade Fan will say that's not impressive cause PER is wack.

You say LeBron has a team 23-4 and Wade Fan will say he can't help who he plays with, and therefore should be excused from leading a .500 team.

But then you say LeBron hasnt been on a .500 or worse team since his rookie year, Wade Fan will say LeBron has never played with the dearth of talent on the Heat right now.

I mean, the excuses go on and on and on...
:applause:
finally someone said it perfectly.

wade fans are kobe homers i believe. cept for gobb who has hated lebron for a while

[gpfanz]

Wade > Lebron > Kobe :hammertime:

[loot]

:applause:
finally someone said it perfectly.

wade fans are kobe homers i believe. cept for gobb who has hated lebron for a while


boo ****ing hoo... because people dont regard your favorite player as highly as you do yourself, they're haters right?


moron.

[Jumpshot Virus]

I will say LeBron is the better player, and will more than likely finish his career the superior compared to Wade. LeBron still has a way to go before he'll reach his "prime" ... on the other hand, I can see Wade advancing more and improving at a much faster rate. If LeBron isn't careful, and if Wade can stay healthy and get more talent around him, I can see Wade finishing his career with more rings than LeBron.

Wade is more clutch than LeBron. There's no disputing that. In many ways, especially when the game really counts, being a superior clutch player can make you a much better player than someone who plays superb for 3 quarters, but seems to decline in the 4th when your best play matters most. There's no doubt Wade isn't far behind all things considered. To me, Wade is the more pure scorer, and I can see Wade being "more feared" by opposing players and coaches than LeBron when it comes to someone exploding having a 20+ point quarter and completely throwing a game off it's axis.

Again, LeBron > Wade, but I see how someone could feel differently.

[plowking]

:applause:
finally someone said it perfectly.

wade fans are kobe homers i believe. cept for gobb who has hated lebron for a while

LOL, you quoted the biggest Lebron homer to ever grace the Insidehoops forum and said "finally someone said it perfectly".

:roll:

You made yourself look life a fool with that comment.

[The Chosen One]

I'll just say this: whoever thinks Wade is better than LeBron, is f0cking crazy.

[Mamba]

boo ****ing hoo... because people dont regard your favorite player as highly as you do yourself, they're haters right?


moron.
is that a joke. gobb has always hated lebrons game, ive seen him mention it quite a few times. its hard 2 find direct quotes though since he post on this board 100 times a day

[plowking]

is that a joke. gobb has always hated lebrons game, ive seen him mention it quite a few times. its hard 2 find direct quotes though since he post on this board 100 times a day

He's hated Wade back in the day as well. Fact is, he thinks one is the better player then the other. Why does it matter to you all that much, as to who the better player is, when Lebron will most likely win MVP.

[loot]

is that a joke. gobb has always hated lebrons game, ive seen him mention it quite a few times. its hard 2 find direct quotes though since he post on this board 100 times a day


"wade fans are kobe homers i believe." that post equals wanker

[gpfanz]

I'll just say this: whoever thinks Wade is better than LeBron, is f0cking crazy.

I am biased. I think D Fake > Lebrick :hammertime:

[Mdog1]

And still Wade got his ring which account for something.
Wade got a ring in 05. That actually believe it or not matter 0% when comparing a player today vs. a player today. If we were comparing a player then vs. a player today then it would matter, but the ring means nothing.

[loot]

Wade got a ring in 05. That actually believe it or not matter 0% when comparing a player today vs. a player today. If we were comparing a player then vs. a player today then it would matter, but the ring means nothing.

Of course it matters. He proved something, he showed something. That makes him a certain player. Going by your logic you can't use past achievements for players anymore. :oldlol:

[plowking]

Wade got a ring in 05. That actually believe it or not matter 0% when comparing a player today vs. a player today. If we were comparing a player then vs. a player today then it would matter, but the ring means nothing.

It was 06'. Though it should have been in 05' as well.

[Mdog1]

Of course it matters. He proved something, he showed something. That makes him a certain player. Going by your logic you can't use past achievements for players anymore. :oldlol:
Not when you are trying to determine who is the better player today.
Sorry it was 06. So two years ago means nothing when trying to determine todays players. Keep the 06 ring crap out of the debate because it is irrelevant.

[1~Gibson~1]

back in '06 Wade WAS better

now LBJ is with wade a close second

Just my opinion though :confusedshrug:

[Jumpshot Virus]

I'm wondering though, if Wade and Miami win another title this year, would people still view LeBron the better player?

:confusedshrug:

[beasted86]

So what are you saying Mdog1?

25 games is now the diamond standard for statistics? Everything people do in a 25 game span can now be marked as official?

This makes absolutely no sense. You use career statistics when comparing players... what have they done over their career. Especially if their current stats are similar to their career numbers.

We aren't talking about two sophmores here, where you'd expect a huge jump in development. Were comparing 5 seasons worth of stats. I think you'd have a much more grounded argument using 5 seasons vs. 25 games for your reasoning.

[Mdog1]

So what are you saying Mdog1?

25 games is now the diamond standard for statistics? Everything people do in a 25 game span can now be marked as official?

This makes absolutely no sense. You use career statistics when comparing players... what have they done over their career. Especially if their current stats are similar to their career numbers.

We aren't talking about two sophmores here, where you'd expect a huge jump in development. Were comparing 5 seasons worth of stats. I think you'd have a much more grounded argument using 5 seasons vs. 25 games for your reasoning.
What I am saying is not hard to comprehend. Well maybe it is for Americans I don't know. Any way I am saying that past achievements show nothing to the players they are now. Wade could have averaged 50/10/30 for a year, and that plays nothing into what he is now. Same with LeBron. The player they were yesterday means nothing when you compare todays players. Ok do you understand now? I mean this is hardly rocket science.

[gabeh1018]

I find it difficult to compare Lebron James & Wade. They are my two favorite players and for the most part their games are much different from each other; however, they are both excellent at getting to the rim.

I will say that I think wade has more of a killer instinct and can handle pressure extremely well.

[20 Dimes A Game]

Lebron>Wade. Easily.

[Mdog1]

Lebron>Wade. Easily.
I wouldn't say easily. He is but it is not easily. They play differently, there roles are different, and the teams are different. I doubt if you put Wade on the Cavs that they do as well, and likewise with LeBron on the Heat. The teams are built around those players and that is why they are what they are. LeBron is the better player because of how he plays. He doesn't settle for jumpers often which is why he is better. He takes it to the hole, can finish like nobody else and is the clutchest player in the league right now (even though they have not played much "clutch" time).

[loot]

What I am saying is not hard to comprehend. Well maybe it is for Americans I don't know. Any way I am saying that past achievements show nothing to the players they are now. Wade could have averaged 50/10/30 for a year, and that plays nothing into what he is now. Same with LeBron. The player they were yesterday means nothing when you compare todays players.


Is it? When a player showed he can step up, he can lead, he can win a ring, it doesnt hold value when ranking them today? So an overachieving player this season could be ranked higher than a player who has time and time again proved he's a huge player but who started slowly will be, by your system?


BTW what's this crap: "Well maybe it is for Americans I don't know." You're trying to talk **** to people because they're not from where ever you reside?

[Dasher]

If I want to build a franchise I would choose LeBron.

If I need to win 1 game/series/shot, I roll with Wade.

[loot]

LeBron is the better player because of how he plays. He doesn't settle for jumpers often which is why he is better. He takes it to the hole, can finish like nobody else and is the clutchest player in the league right now (even though they have not played much "clutch" time).

You're really trying to rate ANY player here over Wade because that player doesn't settle for jump shots, takes it to the hole, can finish like nobody else and is clutch? Really? You just gave a perfect description of Wade.

[beasted86]

What I am saying is not hard to comprehend. Well maybe it is for Americans I don't know. Any way I am saying that past achievements show nothing to the players they are now. Wade could have averaged 50/10/30 for a year, and that plays nothing into what he is now. Same with LeBron. The player they were yesterday means nothing when you compare todays players. Ok do you understand now? I mean this is hardly rocket science.

Maybe I'm just stupid then. Because I still can't figure out how you came to the conclusion that these 25-28 games 'defined LeBron as a player today'. What is the official standard to how many games make a player's play official or in your words define them "now"?

10? 15? 27?

You said LeBron is a better free throw shooter, but 5 years worth of stats say something else. So my stupid self is still trying to understand your rule of measurement for success or consistency.

[Indian guy]

back in '06 Wade WAS better

Even back in '06 when Miami won the championship, the good majority still considered LeBron the better player. 05-06 was all about Kobe vs. LeBron. Wade was always ranked below those 2 and still is. Now with LeBron playing on a much better team and putting up better numbers than Wade(PER and EFF)...I can't see Wade being considered LeBron's equal in the public eye any time soon. He'll be considered close, but certainly not as good or better.

[Mdog1]

Maybe I'm just stupid then. Because I still can't figure out how you came to the conclusion that these 25-28 games 'defined LeBron as a player today'. What is the official standard to how many games make a player's play official or in your words define them "now"?

10? 15? 27?

You said LeBron is a better free throw shooter, but 5 years worth of stats say something else. So my stupid self is still trying to understand your rule of measurement for success or consistency.
I don't care nor should you what the past 5 years have said. We are not giving a life time achievement award right now, but rather a who is better award. If it is career Wade is better, but if it is right now, this year LeBron is better. It seems like Kobe and Wade fans live in the past for their arguments. Wade was better because he won a ring, Kobe was beter because he is clutch. Those are not now arguments though are they?


Is it? When a player showed he can step up, he can lead, he can win a ring, it doesnt hold value when ranking them today? So an overachieving player this season could be ranked higher than a player who has time and time again proved he's a huge player but who started slowly will be, by your system?


Sure if a player has proven that he is better today than he is better today. For instance Devin Harris has now proven he is better than Chancey Billups. But hasn't he only had a good stretch of games recently?

[Mdog1]

Even back in '06 when Miami won the championship, the good majority still considered LeBron the better player. 05-06 was all about Kobe vs. LeBron. Wade was always ranked below those 2 and still is. Now with LeBron playing on a much better team and putting up equivalent/better numbers than Wade...I can't see Wade being considered LeBron's equal in the public eye any time soon. He'll be considered close, but certainly not as good or better.
:applause: That is the end of it right there. Wade I believe was better at one point. Possibly when LeBron was ten and Wade was 13. (that was a joke)

[1~Gibson~1]

Maybe I'm just stupid then. Because I still can't figure out how you came to the conclusion that these 25-28 games 'defined LeBron as a player today'. What is the official standard to how many games make a player's play official or in your words define them "now"?

10? 15? 27?

You said LeBron is a better free throw shooter, but 5 years worth of stats say something else. So my stupid self is still trying to understand your rule of measurement for success or consistency.what he's saying is that the past doesnt matter when you're trying to figure out who the best player is TODAY.

and he's basically saying from the start of the season up until this point lbj is better (THAT MEANS EXCLUDING THE PAST YEARS SO THERE IS NO 5 YEARS WORTH OF STATS)

[Mdog1]

what he's saying is that the past doesnt matter when you're trying to figure out who the best player is TODAY.

and he's basically saying from the start of the season up until this point lbj is better (THAT MEANS EXCLUDING THE PAST YEARS SO THERE IS NO 5 YEARS WORTH OF STATS)
They obviously know what I mean. They are not that dumb, well at least I hope not any way.

[loot]

what he's saying is that the past doesnt matter when you're trying to figure out who the best player is TODAY.

and he's basically saying from the start of the season up until this point lbj is better (THAT MEANS EXCLUDING THE PAST YEARS SO THERE IS NO 5 YEARS WORTH OF STATS)
which means you can only rank players but things measurable. Stats and wins. You won't take intangibles like leadership, clutchshooting, roles on team, etc into account.

This will also mean loads of people will rank Kevin Garnett pretty low while we all know he's cruising and will step as soon as needed, and will also explain why loads of morons totally underrate Tim Duncan.

Clear.

[loot]

Sure if a player has proven that he is better today than he is better today. For instance Devin Harris has now proven he is better than Chancey Billups. But hasn't he only had a good stretch of games recently?


Eh? New Jersey 13 13 , Denver 17 10


Once again it's clear what you look at. Individual stats, not wins (at least not this time, although you did take them into consideration when rating Bron and Wade).


What's up with the attitude towards American ISH members btw?

[Mdog1]

which means you can only rank players but things measurable. Stats and wins. You won't take intangibles like leadership, clutchshooting, roles on team, etc into account.

This will also mean loads of people will rank Kevin Garnett pretty low while we all know he's cruising and will step as soon as needed, and will also explain why loads of morons totally underrate Tim Duncan.

Clear.
Ok well Leadership is all LeBron. Clutchness is also LeBron, shooting % last time I checked was LeBron, hustle may be close, turnovers is an intangible to me so that is LeBron, role on team, hmm well without Wade the team is terrible. Without LeBron the Cavs are the 7 seed at best possibly with a losing record. So intangibles go to LeBron to. You have another method? One that will actually suit your arguement?

[beasted86]

what he's saying is that the past doesnt matter when you're trying to figure out who the best player is TODAY.

and he's basically saying from the start of the season up until this point lbj is better (THAT MEANS EXCLUDING THE PAST YEARS SO THERE IS NO 5 YEARS WORTH OF STATS)

Thanks.

That's finally clear... it's poor logic, but thanks for finally making it clear what he was getting at. So at the end of this season, if Wade has better stats, regardless of if Kobe or LeBron get to deeper into the playoffs, or get to the finals or even win it, and the Heat don't even make playoffs or exit quick, I will be able to say Wade "is" the better player.

I just wanted to make sure this was the logic. Because since so, please rest assured I will throw it in your face everytime it comes up, and you'd better not backtrack Mdog1.

[Mdog1]

Eh? New Jersey 13 13 , Denver 17 10


Once again it's clear what you look at. Individual stats, not wins (at least not this time, although you did take them into consideration when rating Bron and Wade).


What's up with the attitude towards American ISH members btw?
Well I did take wins into consideration. Without Harris the Nets record is terrible. With him I think it is well over .500. Denver is a team that won 50 games last year, and the Nets are supposed to be terrible this year. DH means more to the Nets than Billups to Denver.

[Mdog1]

Thanks.

That's finally clear... it's poor logic, but thanks for finally making it clear what he was getting at. So at the end of this season, if Wade has better stats, regardless of if Kobe or LeBron get to deeper into the playoffs, or get to the finals or even win it, and the Heat don't even make playoffs or exit quick, I will be able to say Wade "is" the better player.I just wanted to make sure this was the logic. Because since so, please rest assured I will throw it in your face everytime it comes up, and you'd better not backtrack Mdog1.
That is the part you got wrong. I only count things this year when comparing things this year. So when LeBron wins the championship this year he will be the better player this year even if the stats don't back it up.

[loot]

DH means more to the Nets than Billups to Denver.

Does he? Show it.

[beasted86]

That is the part you got wrong. I only count things this year when comparing things this year. So when LeBron wins the championship this year he will be the better player this year even if the stats don't back it up.

W-H-A-T????????
Your logic is ass backwards. That ends this discussion for me.

As I've said before... the homers whoever they support in whatever arguement of LeBron vs. Kobe vs. Wade will use the current supporting team, current record, current stats, past stats, past records, past teams, etc... and will twist them until they deem it suitable to fit their current arguement.

This whole debate is pointless. As I've said before, for me all 3 are about equal, because the concrete evidence (their career stats) are all currently about equal. Almost every person when putting one above the other will have see through arguments to back it up.

[lilojmayo]

Bron vs Wade so sos hard i love dwade no homo love how he plays

but when i watch lebron the dude cant be stopped especially when he doesnt settle fro the jumper

the dude his shooting the ball 74% in the paint in other words when he drives he doesnt miss

im also a firm believer on some players on what they do head to head especially players like wade bron and kobe who go at each other the whole game


Wade Vs Bron
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=wadedw01&p2=jamesle01

there numbers are so close head to head

Wade Vs Kobe
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=wadedw01&p2=bryanko01

Kobe vs Bron
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=bryanko01 Bron has dominated Kobe head to head

[beasted86]

And just to further explain why your arguement is see through, let me break it down.

You said here that the current player who is playing better, has higher PER, and leads his team to a championship is the better player:


That is the part you got wrong. I only count things this year when comparing things this year. So when LeBron wins the championship this year he will be the better player this year even if the stats don't back it up.

but previously agreed and applauded this arguement:


Even back in '06 when Miami won the championship, the good majority still considered LeBron the better player

Even though in '06 Wade had a way higher PER, , higher FG%, FT%, STL, BLKs, and even played 5 less minutes per game, and obviously led his team to a championship title. You've said at no point was Wade better than LeBron.

So your whole arguement is see through, when looked at, your only bound on one motive... to make LeBron seem better than Wade. You'll never stand your ground with any concrete reasons as to why one player is better than the other.

[dnyk1337]

The biggest stat has to be that LeBron hasn't played in a .500 team since his rookie year, which was said earlier. That is impressive in itself. How does one person elevate your whole team record that way? I just find it impossible almost, considering the Cavs had one of the worst teams in the NBA around 2-3 years ago.

[loot]

Ok well Leadership is all LeBron. Clutchness is also LeBron, shooting % last time I checked was LeBron, hustle may be close, turnovers is an intangible to me so that is LeBron, role on team, hmm well without Wade the team is terrible. Without LeBron the Cavs are the 7 seed at best possibly with a losing record. So intangibles go to LeBron to. You have another method? One that will actually suit your arguement?

You actually proved my point exactly. You threw in half a dozen opinion above. Done.

[Godfather]

The biggest stat has to be that LeBron hasn't played in a .500 team since his rookie year, which was said earlier. That is impressive in itself. How does one person elevate your whole team record that way? I just find it impossible almost, considering the Cavs had one of the worst teams in the NBA around 2-3 years ago.
:applause:

I think that just goes to show why the logical fan would take LeBron right now over Wade right now for his/her team 9 times out of 10.

[RidonKs]

There are a lot of similarities between this discussion and the Paul/Deron discussion from last year. Those who feel Deron and Wade are better can certainly make legitimate points, it's not like that statement has no basis, and an argument could be heard. Even then, the vast majority are on the LeBron and Paul side. Even if it's really, really, really, super, duperly lose, a far larger portion of the basketball following world would take LeBron and Paul in a heartbeat. Myself included.

[beasted86]

The biggest stat has to be that LeBron hasn't played in a .500 team since his rookie year, which was said earlier. That is impressive in itself. How does one person elevate your whole team record that way? I just find it impossible almost, considering the Cavs had one of the worst teams in the NBA around 2-3 years ago.

Yeah, that's a great arguement :applause:

Wade played in 1 season with a sub .500 record (07-08)... LeBron played in 1 season with a sub .500 record (03-04).

So yeah, that automatically makes LeBron >>> Wade :banghead:

[loot]

You actually proved my point exactly. You threw in half a dozen opinion above. Done.

Funny, where's the post?

[Godfather]

Yeah, that's a great arguement :applause:

Wade played in 1 season with a sub .500 record (07-08)... LeBron played in 1 season with a sub .500 record (03-04).

So yeah, that automatically makes LeBron >>> Wade :banghead:

Good job comparing a 19 year old to a 26 year old :applause: .

[beasted86]

Good job comparing a 19 year old to a 26 year old :applause: .

Good job comparing a healthy player to an injured player :applause:


It's so easy to rip apart every arguement the homers throw out.

[Godfather]

Good job comparing a healthy player to an injured player :applause:


It's so easy to rip apart every arguement the homers throw out.

The 51 games he was healthy they still had a losing record.

I concur.

[beasted86]

The 51 games he was healthy they still had a losing record.

I concur.

The 79 games LeBron played, the Cavs had a losing record as well.

I concur.

Easy....

[loot]

The 51 games he was healthy they still had a losing record.

I concur.

Just throwing it out there Wade wasn't healthy for 51 games.

[Godfather]

The 79 games LeBron played, the Cavs had a losing record as well.

I concur.

Easy....

LeBron James was 19 year olds in his first season in the NBA out of high school. Dwayne Wade was in his prime (26 years old) and had already won a championship.

Your illogical arguments are starting to make me laugh.


Just throwing it out there Wade wasn't healthy for 51 games.

The same thing could be said of LeBron. You are telling me a player so young wasn't feeling some pains by the end of his first season?

[beasted86]

LeBron James was 19 year olds in his first season in the NBA out of high school. Dwayne Wade was in his prime (26 years old) and had already won a championship.

Your illogical arguments are starting to make me laugh.

Dwyane Wade was 25 years old and playing injured missing over 20 games along with the rest of the starers. LeBron James was young (19 years old) and had all of his teammates healthy.

Your illogical arguments are starting to make me laugh.

[Doranku]

Wade performs in the big games. LeBron does not. Give me the player who has proven they can step up in the finals over the player who shoots 35% with 7 TOs in the finals any day of the week.

[Godfather]

Dwyane Wade was 25 years old and playing injured missing over 20 games along with the rest of the starers. LeBron James was young (19 years old) and had all of his teammates healthy.

Your illogical arguments are starting to make me laugh.

I already addressed that, if you don't want to read my previous posts so be it.


Spurs defensively>>>>>Mavs Defensively.

Wade's supporting cast in his finals run>>>>LBJ's supporting cast in his finals run.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is clearly the better NBA player this season, and next year he's going to prove to this idiots that he can win an NBA Championship without Shaquille O'Neal on his team.

By the way the Cavaliers are going to send the Miami Heat back to Hell next week.

[Doranku]

LeBron is clearly the better NBA player this season, and next year he's going to prove to this idiots that he can win an NBA Championship without Shaquille O'Neal on his team.

LeBron will never win an NBA title with the current team he has now.

[Cannonball]

LeBron will never win an NBA title with the current team he has now.
bull****

[Godfather]

LeBron will never win an NBA title with the current team he has now.

What are you a fortune teller?

http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ld/projects/trc/2004/manual/internal_chapters/images/illustrations/C_Illus_FortuneTeller2.gif

[beasted86]

I already addressed that, if you don't want to read my previous posts so be it.


Spurs defensively>>>>>Mavs Defensively.

Wade's supporting cast in his finals run>>>>LBJ's supporting cast in his finals run.

Who ever said anything about the finals? You've run out of ground to stand on in your arguements, and are sounding as bad of a homer as Mdog1.

As I've said before, I don't care who says who is better, but atleast have some logical reasons and rebutals. Don't come with garbage you've pulled out of your ass. That goes for Wade, LeBron, or Kobe supporters alike.

IE: If somebody said LeBron is better because he has a better career record with his team, averaged more PPG, and had a career higher P.E.R. average(excluding current year), that would be a realistic arguement.

But instead, I continue to hear garbage reasons. GTFOH.

[Lebron23]

LeBron will never win an NBA title with the current team he has now.


"Talent wins games, but teamwork, defense, chemistry, and intelligence wins an NBA Championship."


:hammertime: :hammertime: :hammertime:

[loot]

"Talent wins games, but teamwork, defense, chemistry, and intelligence wins an NBA Championship."


:hammertime: :hammertime: :hammertime:

Save the hammertime untill Bron actually wins a ring. Which will happen soon enough. But still.

[Godfather]

Who ever said anything about the finals? You've run out of ground to stand on in your arguements, and are sounding as bad of a homer as Mdog1.

As I've said before, I don't care who says who is better, but atleast have some logical reasons and rebutals. Don't come with garbage you've pulled out of your ass. That goes for Wade, LeBron, or Kobe supporters alike.

IE: If somebody said LeBron is better because he has a better career record with his team, averaged more PPG, and had a career higher P.E.R. average(excluding current year), that would be a realistic arguement.

But instead, I continue to hear garbage reasons. GTFOH.


Wade performs in the big games. LeBron does not. Give me the player who has proven they can step up in the finals over the player who shoots 35% with 7 TOs in the finals any day of the week.


The biggest stat has to be that LeBron hasn't played in a .500 team since his rookie year, which was said earlier. That is impressive in itself. How does one person elevate your whole team record that way? I just find it impossible almost, considering the Cavs had one of the worst teams in the NBA around 2-3 years ago.

How can someone take you seriously when you lack the capacity to read and comprehend?

[beasted86]

How can someone take you seriously when you lack the capacity to read and comprehend?

Yeah, but I never brought up anything about the finals except for that really early youtube video to rile up the homers about 6 pages back which I don't think anyone even saw.

You then started talking about finals while quoting me above it, like it was part of our current discussion. Like I said, you basically pulled that out of your ass because you ran out of rebutals to what I was saying.

[Godfather]

Yeah, but I never brought up anything about the finals except for that really early youtube video to rile up the homers about 6 pages back which I don't think anyone even saw.

You then started talking about finals while quoting me above it, like it was part of our current discussion. Like I said, you basically pulled that out of your ass because you ran out of rebutals to what I was saying.

I quoted you then wrote to read my previous posts concerning your argument, then I left a significant amount of space to address the finals argument.

I am sorry that my manner of posting does not appeal to your stupidity.

[BlazersDozen]

I really think skills wise it is a toss up, so you have to look at impact. The team that LeBron took to the NBA finals wasn't much better than the team that Wade is playing with right now and Wade isn't doing what LeBron did with him team. LeBron doesn't command a double team, he commands a triple or quadrouple team especially when in the paint. LeBron can also play every position on the floor except center although I think he could play that as well with how strong he is coupled with his athletic ability.

When I watch Wade play, he has unbelivable one on one skills, great handles and passing skills but he doesn't demand as much attention as LeBron does. The worst Wade has to face is a double team with help defense at the rim when he drives.

When has it taken an entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celitcs team to stop D Wade? I don't think ever. He crumbles under good physical defenders like Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen.

I guess thats another thing that makes LeBron better. He's a tougher player and has more swag and confidence in his game than Wade does.

[Godfather]

I really think skills wise it is a toss up, so you have to look at impact. The team that LeBron took to the NBA finals wasn't much better than the team that Wade is playing with right now and Wade isn't doing what LeBron did with him team. LeBron doesn't command a double team, he commands a triple or quadrouple team especially when in the paint. LeBron can also play every position on the floor except center although I think he could play that as well with how strong he is coupled with his athletic ability.

When I watch Wade play, he has unbelivable one on one skills, great handles and passing skills but he doesn't demand as much attention as LeBron does. The worst Wade has to face is a double team with help defense at the rim when he drives.

When has it taken an entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celitcs team to stop D Wade? I don't think ever. He crumbles under good physical defenders like Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen.

I guess thats another thing that makes LeBron better. He's a tougher player and has more swag and confidence in his game than Wade does.

Excellent unbiased post. :applause:

[ShowTime LA]

LeBron will never win an NBA title with the current team he has now.


http://www.crashonmyhead.com/captain_obvious.jpg

[Free]

Excellent unbiased post. :applause:

This is typical of NBA fans. They just look at offensive talent and completely negate rebounds and defense. The Cavs last year are a vastly superior rebounding team and a better defensive team then the Heat this year. The Heat start a 6'9 guy at Center who averages about 5-6 rebounds a game. It is there guards who anchor their defense because they have a pretty weak interior defense. Beasely, who was supposed to be the second option to Wade is now coming of the bench and his minutes have been significantly reduced in the last 10 games. And to say that Wade doesn't demand the undivided attention of defenses today is evidence that you haven't watched much Heat games this year. The only play that the Heat run in the forth quarter is to give the ball to Wade at the top of the key and let him work. Teams often try to trap him as soon as he gets pass the half court line and there is always a collective effort by the defense to close out on him before he can get into the paint. And I guess you didn't see Wade torch both Bowen and Bell in the games against the Suns and Spurs; not to mention he has done it on more than one occasion throughout his career.

[BlazersDozen]

This is typical of NBA fans. They just look at offensive talent and completely negate rebounds and defense. The Cavs last year are a vastly superior rebounding team and a better defensive team then the Heat this year. The Heat start a 6'9 guy at Center who averages about 5-6 rebounds a game. It is there guards who anchor their defense because they have a pretty weak interior defense. Beasely, who was supposed to be the second option to Wade is now coming of the bench and his minutes have been significantly reduced in the last 10 games. And to say that Wade doesn't demand the undivided attention of defenses today is evidence that you haven't watched much Heat games this year. The only play that the Heat run in the forth quarter is to give the ball to Wade at the top of the key and let him work. Teams often try to trap him as soon as he gets pass the half court line and there is always a collective effort by the defense to close out on him before he can get into the paint. And I guess you didn't see Wade torch both Bowen and Bell in the games against the Suns and Spurs; not to mention he has done it on more than one occasion throughout his career.

What does the first half of your post have anything to do with both these players individual skills?

[Free]

What does the first half of your post have anything to do with both these players individual skills?


I meant to quote your post. I was simply responding to what you said about Wade not demanding that much attention from the defense and about the Cavs only being slightly better last year than the Heat this year. I think both players are great and have been put in different situations this year. Both are excelling. But if you wanted to make the argument that Wade can't carry a team or that he doesn't have the same impact as LeBron has, this year isn't the year to make that argument because he is the life line of that Miami Heat team. There success is largely dependent on his play night in and night out.

[juju151111]

I really think skills wise it is a toss up, so you have to look at impact. The team that LeBron took to the NBA finals wasn't much better than the team that Wade is playing with right now and Wade isn't doing what LeBron did with him team. LeBron doesn't command a double team, he commands a triple or quadrouple team especially when in the paint. LeBron can also play every position on the floor except center although I think he could play that as well with how strong he is coupled with his athletic ability.

When I watch Wade play, he has unbelivable one on one skills, great handles and passing skills but he doesn't demand as much attention as LeBron does. The worst Wade has to face is a double team with help defense at the rim when he drives.

When has it taken an entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celitcs team to stop D Wade? I don't think ever. He crumbles under good physical defenders like Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen.

I guess thats another thing that makes LeBron better. He's a tougher player and has more swag and confidence in his game than Wade does.
BS and he doesn't crumple under good defenders.He lighted up bruce bowen when they face ach other.LJ is not a tougher player then wade.GTFO Bruce can't even guard him when he way backed off.Dwade before injury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLSllV25CE .LMFAO also here is stats against the spurs in one gm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcm4Bb6kwig&feature=related 31pts,10asts,8rebs GTFO here another one from this season http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvE4zPRE2jE LOL Wade would own reja bell.

[raid09]

Who ever said anything about the finals? You've run out of ground to stand on in your arguements, and are sounding as bad of a homer as Mdog1.

As I've said before, I don't care who says who is better, but atleast have some logical reasons and rebutals. Don't come with garbage you've pulled out of your ass. That goes for Wade, LeBron, or Kobe supporters alike.

IE: If somebody said LeBron is better because he has a better career record with his team, averaged more PPG, and had a career higher P.E.R. average(excluding current year), that would be a realistic arguement.

But instead, I continue to hear garbage reasons. GTFOH.

I'd just like to ask you something, since you ignored it when I posted it before.

So, when people post stats about LeBron this year, you brush it aside because as you say, it's only 25 games into the season. That's valid.

I'm sure you remember 1.5 months ago when it was 13 games into the season, and Wade was averaging high numbers and threads were being posted about Wade "leading the league in blocks," "shooting a higher FG%," "having a higher PER," etc. You were in those threads treating those stats like a valid argument.

And you act like OTHER people are twisting stats to support their arguments.

[raid09]

Dwyane Wade was 25 years old and playing injured missing over 20 games along with the rest of the starers. LeBron James was young (19 years old) and had all of his teammates healthy.

Your illogical arguments are starting to make me laugh.

Is durability not a part of being a basketball player now?

[GOBB]

I've never hated Bron nor Wade's game. By me speaking on weaknesses, flaws or parts of each players game that I feel needed to be improved upon? Thats simply not hate. I was one of the main supporters here when Bron was a high schooler getting ripped for his jumper or lack thereof, his poor form, his horrible defense (because he didnt hustle one play on the HS game featured on espn). I defended him and supported him. When he had an amazing rookie season? I was there to call out the clowns who slammed him hard but are now on the Bron bandwagon. Wade? He's always reminded me of a super sized Allen Iverson. He's my 2nd fav basketball player in the NBA. Been that way for some time.

Since both entered the NBA I have not simply given out praise and turned my cheek to things that need to be called out, exposed or something that didnt sit right with me. How is that being a hater or hating them? Neither player is perfect. Nether player is flawless. So why am I not allowed to speak on things even if YOU disagree on...yet I'm hating them? Doesnt add up. It just tells me someone uses the word hate in the wrong context.

I've felt Wade was as good as Bron for awhile. And right now I feel he is better. But if someone tells me Bron is? I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch. Get upset nor want to go back and forth arguing. I'll acknowledge sound arguments for Lebron and thats that. I'll even take into consideration something I may not hold against Wade highly like durability. Flat out Bron is more durable. But I dont know Wade much because he hasnt. You may say thats wrong. And you have that right to it. But will I change my stance? Not likely.

And this idea I'm a former Kobe fan now Wade fan? I've NEVER liked Kobe. And today? Still dont. Not sure why people think I like Kobe. His game? Great. His personality? Cant stand it. I've softened up a bit on Kobe where I defend him more than I ever used too. But you'll never find me saying Kobe is one of my fav players. If I gave you my top 10 fav players in the NBA? He wouldnt be on it. The last 12yrs? He wouldnt be on it. And to Kobe fans? THAT is not HATE.

Guys like Mamba need to get over themselves. Like really.

[GOBB]

Are you taking durability into account or are you speaking of both players when they are 100-percent? Maybe a successful argument can be made for Wade, but it is damn difficult to simply overlook his injury problems the last few years and, at the same time, dismiss LeBron's almost invincible history.

Wade has not played more than 50 games since 2005-06. For a player that is a month away from turning 27 years old, seasons of 50 and 49 games are an issue. In fact, he has only played more than 56 games in two of his five NBA seasons.

Maybe this year will see Dwyane become a steady player that doesn't miss much time, but his relatively small frame does take a beating when factoring in his physical style of play. I said early in his career that I would be surprised if his body could hold up on the NBA level taking as many hits and falls as he does. His style of play is effective but difficult to maintain without serious injury. If history is a judge, he will suffer a debilitating setback at some point this year.

I hope I'm wrong, because the more games that Wade plays, the better it is for the association. But, we can't simply avoid what has become a bit of trend in Dwyane's career thus far.

On the other hand, LeBron is unbelievably durable. While Wade's frame struggles to hold up to his physical slashing style, LeBron's huge 6-foot-8, 260 pound body is built to endure the kind of punishment that a player of his physicality will face on a nightly basis in this league.

LeBron has averaged 40 or more minutes per game in each of his five regular seasons in the NBA. That number alone is insane. Now factor in that he has AVERAGED over 78 games played in the regular season during the course of his career.

That is incredible durability, especially when you take into account his style of play.

So, when evaluating LeBron and Dwyane, these numbers must be taken into account. As important or even moreso than statistics like points, rebounds, assists, etc. is games and minutes played. After all, it doesn't matter how good you are if you can only keep that high level of play up for short spurts during the course of the season.

Wade has been unreal so far this season, but he is going to have to prove that he can keep this kind of production up for an entire season and then the playoffs. LeBron has done that several times in his career.

Hell... last year, LeBron averaged 30/8/7 for 40+ minutes per game over the course of 75 games. His minutes are down this year for obvious reasons, but his history of durability leads me to believe that, if the Cavs needed him to be on the floor more, his production wouldn't suffer in the least.

To me, this is the most glaring difference between the two players over the course of their five years in the league... it can't be overlooked.

Very good post. I really didnt put much stock into durability than you have. Bron has been a beast and really dodged any injuries like Wade has encountered. He definately deserves props for it. So I'm pretty much speaking in terms of the bold i highlighted in your post.

[Vragrant]

I really think skills wise it is a toss up, so you have to look at impact. The team that LeBron took to the NBA finals wasn't much better than the team that Wade is playing with right now and Wade isn't doing what LeBron did with him team. LeBron doesn't command a double team, he commands a triple or quadrouple team especially when in the paint. LeBron can also play every position on the floor except center although I think he could play that as well with how strong he is coupled with his athletic ability.

When I watch Wade play, he has unbelivable one on one skills, great handles and passing skills but he doesn't demand as much attention as LeBron does. The worst Wade has to face is a double team with help defense at the rim when he drives.

When has it taken an entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celitcs team to stop D Wade? I don't think ever. He crumbles under good physical defenders like Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen.

I guess thats another thing that makes LeBron better. He's a tougher player and has more swag and confidence in his game than Wade does.

Lebron triple and quadrupled teamed? I don't think I've ever seen a player quadrupled teamed. Not a prime Shaq, not even Jordan. Are you saying teams are willing to leave pretty much every other Cavs player on the floor open (including West,Williams) just to contain Lebron? You rarely even see triple teams, let alone quadruple teams which is unheard of.

As for Wade having trouble against defenders like Bell and Bowen thats way offbase there as well. Did you not see Wade torch Bell for 43pts (on 62% shooting)this season? The funny thing about that is Wade's season high came against Bell. Not to mention the fact he put up 33pts on 56% shooting against Bowen and the Spurs this year as well. Wade has never had trouble with these guys.

[Jamz Nayschmidt]

Lebron > Kobe > Wade.

Let their play speak for themselvez.


It's just how it is.

Lebron is a better defender than Wade unless we're discussing steals.
Lebron is a better overall scorer, though Wade has the better mid-range game. He's still a weaker slasher/3pointshooter.
Lebron is ALSO MORE CLUTCH, as exhibited by Wade's inability to hit freethrows down the stretch in the recent Laker game. Also Lebron's per 48 in the last five of a game is somewhere around 66 points, or so I've read.
Wade is the slightly more dependable passer, though Lebron's creativity and skill level is higher.
Wade's got superior intangibles.

Lebron BETTER OVERALL PLAYER by a visible, but not large notch.

[KeylessEntry]

Lebron > Wade

[G-train]

Lebron > Kobe > Wade.

Let their play speak for themselvez.



There is ZERO doubt that Wade's play is speaking louder than Kobe's at the moment.

[Godfather]

There is ZERO doubt that Wade's play is speaking louder than Kobe's at the moment.

Very true. The Heats win over LA was an indication of this.

[RedBlackAttack]

Very good post. I really didnt put much stock into durability than you have. Bron has been a beast and really dodged any injuries like Wade has encountered. He definately deserves props for it. So I'm pretty much speaking in terms of the bold i highlighted in your post.
Fair enough.

Wade, when fully healthy, is ridiculously good. It certainly isn't a slight to LeBron that we are comparing Dwyane to him. Wade is good enough to be compared to anyone.

Personally, I think that LeBron and Wade have been 1a and 1b when discussing dominance so far this season.

When talking about the overall players, a few things come to mind that sets LeBron apart... His incredible durability, his age (he is several years younger than Wade), and his upside. LeBron keeps improving each season.

Just when you think you have seen the best of him, he adds things to his game. This year has seen an improvement to his already good defense. To me, he deserved consideration for the all-defensive team last season. This year, if he keeps up his current play on that end, it will be a crime if he isn't recognized on that team.

He has significantly improved his free throw shooting. What was a weakness the last few seasons is quickly becoming a strength. He looks more confident and more comfortable at the line.

He has also improved his offensive play off of the ball and in the post.

This is why I have to scratch my head when people talk about LeBron as if he relies only on his athletic gifts. Clearly, the guy puts in a lot of work on his game. You don't keep improving every season for no reason.

Wade is an awesome player, too. I don't think his ceiling is as high as LeBron's, but the same could be said of just about any player in NBA history. I'm not sure anyone's ceiling has ever been as high as LeBron's.

One thing is for sure... the league is in very good hands. There is more great young talent right now than possibly any point in the league's history and it starts with Bron and Dwyane.

[Mdog1]

Lebron > Kobe > Wade.

Let their play speak for themselvez.


It's just how it is.

Lebron is a better defender than Wade unless we're discussing steals.
Lebron is a better overall scorer, though Wade has the better mid-range game. He's still a weaker slasher/3pointshooter.
Lebron is ALSO MORE CLUTCH, as exhibited by Wade's inability to hit freethrows down the stretch in the recent Laker game. Also Lebron's per 48 in the last five of a game is somewhere around 66 points, or so I've read.
Wade is the slightly more dependable passer, though Lebron's creativity and skill level is higher.
Wade's got superior intangibles.

Lebron BETTER OVERALL PLAYER by a visible, but not large notch.
This is very subjective. What exactly do you mean by intangibles? Because if you mean leadership LBJ takes it. If you mean hustle I think Wade has that. So be more specific.

[beasted86]

I'd just like to ask you something, since you ignored it when I posted it before.

So, when people post stats about LeBron this year, you brush it aside because as you say, it's only 25 games into the season. That's valid.

I'm sure you remember 1.5 months ago when it was 13 games into the season, and Wade was averaging high numbers and threads were being posted about Wade "leading the league in blocks," "shooting a higher FG%," "having a higher PER," etc. You were in those threads treating those stats like a valid argument.

And you act like OTHER people are twisting stats to support their arguments.

WRONG!!!! GTFOH... show me one. It's hilarious that people see a Wade avatar under my username and automatically classify my as a homer. I've never overhyped up Wade's 20 game so far defense, scoring, etc since the start of this season... Show me one and I'll ban myself for a month.

As I continuosly say... I'm a basketball fan first, Heat fan second. I'm one of the least biased Heat fans on this site. I don't think a biased Heat fan would give out 3 solid reasons I thought why one could call LeBron better.

[beasted86]

Is durability not a part of being a basketball player now?

Not as much for me.

Being a basketball player all through high school, I know what its like to get injured and recover. These guys are really great for coming back from injuries like they do and recovering fast, and playing through injuries, etc...

As long as a player can bounce back to their previous form when they've "recovered" that's the key to all that matters. I know these players put their body on the line for my entertainment, so I will let injuries go quicker than the next fan. Wade has already recovered and looks great, the same goes for another injury prone star in Arenas... if he recovers to 100% form, all previous injuries are forgotten.

[Mdog1]

Not as much for me.

Being a basketball player all through high school, I know what its like to get injured and recover. These guys are really great for coming back from injuries like they do and recovering fast, and playing through injuries, etc...

As long as a player can bounce back to their previous form when they've "recovered" that's the key to all that matters. I know these players put their body on the line for my entertainment, so I will let injuries go quicker than the next fan. Wade has already recovered and looks great, the same goes for another injury prone star in Arenas... if he recovers to 100% form, all previous injuries are forgotten.
I agree, but that is not it for me. I would easily build a franchise around Wade if given the opportunity, but his injuries are just something to be so worried about. If he is healthy he is top 5 easy, but if he is injured he is not even top 400 (assuming he isn't playing). That for me is another thing that I watch out for, but I try not to hold it against even though with a player like Wade they are so frequent.

[juju151111]

I agree, but that is not it for me. I would easily build a franchise around Wade if given the opportunity, but his injuries are just something to be so worried about. If he is healthy he is top 5 easy, but if he is injured he is not even top 400 (assuming he isn't playing). That for me is another thing that I watch out for, but I try not to hold it against even though with a player like Wade they are so frequent.
He was imjured once which lingered because he came back to help his team in the playoffs.Wade stay pretty healthy now IMO.He has gone to MJ, and Kobbe trainer in the offseason to rehab.That guy knows how to keep people from getting injured.

[Mdog1]

He was imjured once which lingered because he came back to help his team in the playoffs.Wade stay pretty healthy now IMO.He has gone to MJ, and Kobbe trainer in the offseason to rehab.That guy knows how to keep people from getting injured.
Well so does PHX's trainers, but some of their players get injured. Any way out of all the possible games he could have played he has missed 95 games. That is more than an entire season.

[juju151111]

Well so does PHX's trainers, but some of their players get injured. Any way out of all the possible games he could have played he has missed 95 games. That is more than an entire season.
Who cares??He back now and taking over.Since Kobe got Mj trainer he hasn't missed a gm.I hope it does the samething for wade.Wade also said he more focused then ever because after he won the chip he wasn't doing the extra things.Even tho he was averging 29ppg,7asts,5rebs before he got injured in 06-07.

[EllisGW]

Heat would trade wade for lebron in a heartbeat. lol

[Richie2k6]

Heat would trade wade for lebron in a heartbeat. lol
And the Cavs would NOT trade Lebron for Kobe in a heartbeat. Doesn't mean Lebron is head and shoulders better than Kobe. Value and skill are 2 different things.

[EllisGW]

And the Cavs would NOT trade Lebron for Kobe in a heartbeat. Doesn't mean Lebron is head and shoulders better than Kobe. Value and skill are 2 different things.

kobe is 30

obv the cavs would not do that.

wade and lebron are much closer in age

you claim that wade is better but the pat riley would snap call that trade.

If the heat really thought wade was better they would never do this trade.

[Paladin55]

I've never hated Bron nor Wade's game. By me speaking on weaknesses, flaws or parts of each players game that I feel needed to be improved upon? Thats simply not hate. ...Neither player is perfect. Neither player is flawless. So why am I not allowed to speak on things even if YOU disagree on...yet I'm hating them? Doesnt add up. It just tells me someone uses the word hate in the wrong context.

Sometimes a person comes to identify themself with a player so much that if another person is critical of that player in any way THEY feel criticized/attacked. This is most true of fans of the mythical "best player." It makes sense that Lebron sycophants might feel threatened by Wade's reemergence as a top 3 player this year.

The entire issue of "hate" revolves around the insecurity and threatened self-esteem of the fan who has somehow tied their own identity to that of a superstar player.

Kind of sad, actually.

[EllisGW]

Sometimes a person comes to identify themself with a player so much that if another person is critical of that player in any way THEY feel criticized/attacked. This is most true of fans of the mythical "best player." It makes sense that Lebron sycophants might feel threatened by Wade's reemergence as a top 3 player this year.

The entire issue of "hate" revolves around the insecurity and threatened self-esteem of the fan who has somehow tied their own identity to that of a superstar player.

Kind of sad, actually.

true dat

every gm would take lebron over wade in a heartbeat. The people who say wade know that obv.

[jrong]

The team that LeBron took to the NBA finals wasn't much better than the team that Wade is playing with right now and Wade isn't doing what LeBron did with him team.

You have got to be kidding. Wade's team currently is worse than any team LeBron has had since his second year in the league. Marion is a horrendous fit because he can't create his own shot and only thrives in a running offense.
Beasley may or may not be a future all-star, but as a rookie he is atrocious on defense and inconsistent, to say the least. He doesn't even start for the Heat anymore. The Heat still do start another rookie, Mario Chalmers, but he's no, oh say, Boobie Gibson.

Haslem, of course, is the team's other holdover besides Wade from the title team, and the second most valuable player. But, he's 6'8", and he began the year as the starting center. Miami has since replaced him with undrafted Joel Anthony in the middle who is 6'9". That's right our two starting centers this year are both about as tall as LeBron.

And the bench? Chris Quinn, whose ceiling is a dirt poor man's version of a Steve Kerr-lite, is the most steady contributor. Daequan Cook, to his credit, hits big shots sometimes, but he shoots an awful percentage. And that's pretty much it.


Oh and one final word about the teams LeBron has played on since his third year. Since you utterly discount how important their stellar defense and rebounding is to a team's overall success, let me just turn your own logic around on you. Following your argument, LeBron James is no Allen Iverson:

1. The Sixers Finals team was worse than the Cavs Finals team.
2. Iverson faced a tougher Finals opponent.
3. Iverson's team didn't get swept, plus, he actually played well in the series.



The worst Wade has to face is a double team with help defense at the rim when he drives.

When has it taken an entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celitcs team to stop D Wade? I don't think ever. He crumbles under good physical defenders like Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen.

And now you're just talking out of your ass and making crap up to try to seem like you have any point at all. Wade lit up Bell for 43 less than a month ago. And he has routinely made Bowen look very old.

The Spurs and Celts couldn't have gotten away with the kind of defense they played against LeBron, if they faced Wade. If you let Wade have 18 - 20 foot jumpers all game, he will bury you. Ask the Dallas Mavericks how well that gameplan works.

Because a major component of what the "entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celtics team" did to stop LeBron was allow him to shoot from the outside. Wade would make them pay dearly if they tried that against him.

[Godfather]

You have got to be kidding. Wade's team currently is worse than any team LeBron has had since his second year in the league. Marion is a horrendous fit because he can't create his own shot and only thrives in a running offense.
Beasley may or may not be a future all-star, but as a rookie he is atrocious on defense and inconsistent, to say the least. He doesn't even start for the Heat anymore. The Heat still do start another rookie, Mario Chalmers, but he's no, oh say, Boobie Gibson.

Haslem, of course, is the team's other holdover besides Wade from the title team, and the second most valuable player. But, he's 6'8", and he began the year as the starting center. Miami has since replaced him with undrafted Joel Anthony in the middle who is 6'9". That's right our two starting centers this year are both about as tall as LeBron.

And the bench? Chris Quinn, whose ceiling is a dirt poor man's version of a Steve Kerr-lite, is the most steady contributor. Daequan Cook, to his credit, hits big shots sometimes, but he shoots an awful percentage. And that's pretty much it.


Oh and one final word about the teams LeBron has played on since his third year. Since you utterly discount how important their stellar defense and rebounding is to a team's overall success, let me just turn your own logic around on you. Following your argument, LeBron James is no Allen Iverson:

1. The Sixers Finals team was worse than the Cavs Finals team.
2. Iverson faced a tougher Finals opponent.
3. Iverson's team didn't get swept, plus, he actually played well in the series.




And now you're just talking out of your ass and making crap up to try to seem like you have any point at all. Wade lit up Bell for 43 less than a month ago. And he has routinely made Bowen look very old.

The Spurs and Celts couldn't have gotten away with the kind of defense they played against LeBron, if they faced Wade. If you let Wade have 18 - 20 foot jumpers all game, he will bury you. Ask the Dallas Mavericks how well that gameplan works.

Because a major component of what the "entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celtics team" did to stop LeBron was allow him to shoot from the outside. Wade would make them pay dearly if they tried that against him.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
1. AI's team was much better defensively than Bron's team and it wasn't even close
2. The Lakers were not a better defensive team than the Spurs.

[juju151111]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
1. AI's team was much better defensively than Bron's team and it wasn't even close
2. The Lakers were not a better defensive team than the Spurs.
I agree, but LJ team was way better then this heat team.

[Godfather]

I agree, but LJ team was way better then this heat team.

They were better, but not that much better.

PG:Chalmers>Eric Snow (Snow was very inefficent and his defense at that point was no where near Chalmers)
PF: Gooden=Beasley (Both have their offensive lapses and defensive lapses)
C:Big Z>Haslem (Big Z is great while Haslem is so so)
Other position: Larry Hughes<Marion (Larry was vary inefficient and atrocious in man to man defense much unlike Marion)

Bench: Cavs>Heat (This is the biggest difference because the Cavs had Boobie and Side show bob while the heat have Cook and Joel).

LeBron took his team to 50 regular season wins and the NBA finals.

Dwayne Wade is leading his team to a higher than .500 record and is looking to be a doormat of the East elite.

granted the east wasn't as tough as it is right now, but they still beat a very good Pistons team.

[EllisGW]

You have got to be kidding. Wade's team currently is worse than any team LeBron has had since his second year in the league. Marion is a horrendous fit because he can't create his own shot and only thrives in a running offense.
Beasley may or may not be a future all-star, but as a rookie he is atrocious on defense and inconsistent, to say the least. He doesn't even start for the Heat anymore. The Heat still do start another rookie, Mario Chalmers, but he's no, oh say, Boobie Gibson.

Haslem, of course, is the team's other holdover besides Wade from the title team, and the second most valuable player. But, he's 6'8", and he began the year as the starting center. Miami has since replaced him with undrafted Joel Anthony in the middle who is 6'9". That's right our two starting centers this year are both about as tall as LeBron.

And the bench? Chris Quinn, whose ceiling is a dirt poor man's version of a Steve Kerr-lite, is the most steady contributor. Daequan Cook, to his credit, hits big shots sometimes, but he shoots an awful percentage. And that's pretty much it.


Oh and one final word about the teams LeBron has played on since his third year. Since you utterly discount how important their stellar defense and rebounding is to a team's overall success, let me just turn your own logic around on you. Following your argument, LeBron James is no Allen Iverson:

1. The Sixers Finals team was worse than the Cavs Finals team.
2. Iverson faced a tougher Finals opponent.
3. Iverson's team didn't get swept, plus, he actually played well in the series.




And now you're just talking out of your ass and making crap up to try to seem like you have any point at all. Wade lit up Bell for 43 less than a month ago. And he has routinely made Bowen look very old.

The Spurs and Celts couldn't have gotten away with the kind of defense they played against LeBron, if they faced Wade. If you let Wade have 18 - 20 foot jumpers all game, he will bury you. Ask the Dallas Mavericks how well that gameplan works.

Because a major component of what the "entire San Antonio Spurs or Boston Celtics team" did to stop LeBron was allow him to shoot from the outside. Wade would make them pay dearly if they tried that against him.

heat right now have more talent than cavs. Btw you obv did not watch the mavs vs heat because d wade was driving to the lane every time and killing them at the rim with shots and with free throws. You obv dont know anything about basketball.

[lilojmayo]

i think the cavs are better since they have more cohension since they been together longer

i mean big z vajoera pavolic gibson all have been brons team mate for 2+ years

where wade is playing with chalmers marion beasley for the first time

[loot]

heat right now have more talent than cavs.
:oldlol:

[EllisGW]

:oldlol:

charmers mo williams
marion= west
haslem big Z
beasley = wallace

Mo williams is the only person you can argue that can create a shot on his own besides lebron for the cavs. The rest of the players are just role players who know there role. All big z does is shot open 15 foot jump shots. The heat have marion and beasley who have way more offensive power and can create there own shot. While the cavs are much better team, talent wise it goes to the heat.

[loot]

charmers mo williams
marion= west
haslem big Z
beasley = wallace

Mo williams is the only person you can argue that can create a shot on his own besides lebron for the cavs. The rest of the players are just role players who know there role. All big z does is shot open 15 foot jump shots. The heat have marion and beasley who have way more offensive power and can create there own shot. While the cavs are much better team, talent wise it goes to the heat.

"You obv dont know anything about basketball"

[Mdog1]

charmers mo williams
marion= west
haslem big Z
beasley = wallace

Mo williams is the only person you can argue that can create a shot on his own besides lebron for the cavs. The rest of the players are just role players who know there role. All big z does is shot open 15 foot jump shots. The heat have marion and beasley who have way more offensive power and can create there own shot. While the cavs are much better team, talent wise it goes to the heat.
Well I don't think they have more talent on the team if you are talking about this year, but i thought you guys were talking about the team that went to the finals. That team was not very talented. But this team definately has more talent than the Heat do now, but it is not by a large margin. This team isn't incredibly talented outside of Bron, it is just role players playing a good role. The Heat do have talent though, there biggest problem is that they don't have a true C. Their C is 6'10" or so, and that is why they suck. Give them a 7'0" C and they'd be a lot better.

[Godfather]

heat right now have more talent than cavs. Btw you obv did not watch the mavs vs heat because d wade was driving to the lane every time and killing them at the rim with shots and with free throws. You obv dont know anything about basketball.

GTFO ISH. I have been a Cavs fan for 11 years and I will tell you right the current players around Dwayne Wade are not better then the ones around LeBron.

[EllisGW]

GTFO ISH. I have been a Cavs fan for 11 years and I will tell you right the current players around Dwayne Wade are not better then the ones around LeBron.

heat have more talent not better players lol
talent wise
mo williams vs charmers = obv mo williams
Marion vs west marion= marion
beasley vs wallace = beasley
haslem = big z very close big z scores but also takes more shots while haslem is better rounder and defender.

Cavs are deep team and have a good bunch role players that play well together.

[ronnymac]

heat have more talent not better players lol
talent wise
mo williams vs charmers = obv mo williams
Marion vs west marion= marion
beasley vs wallace = beasley
haslem = big z very close big z scores but also takes more shots while haslem is better rounder and defender.

Cavs are deep team and have a good bunch role players that play well together.
Whats the point if there not as productive or better?. talent without being able to get the most out of it is useless

[ShowTime LA]

heat have more talent not better players lol
talent wise
mo williams vs charmers = obv mo williams
Marion vs west marion= marion
beasley vs wallace = beasley
haslem = big z very close big z scores but also takes more shots while haslem is better rounder and defender.

Cavs are deep team and have a good bunch role players that play well together.

how about the bench?

[jrong]

Btw you obv did not watch the mavs vs heat because d wade was driving to the lane every time and killing them at the rim with shots and with free throws. You obv dont know anything about basketball.

Your assertion that the Heat have better players than the Cavs is not worthy of a response. But, this statement tells me that you are the one who didn't pay attention during the series.

Wade destroyed the Mavericks with his jumpshot. The key stretches in that series that Wade dominated-- the 4th quarters in games three and five and the first halves of games four and six-- he did it from the outside. Dallas's scouting report said that Wade couldn't shoot from outside and so they didn't send help defense until he drove. By the time they adjusted and started to double him on the perimeter, it was too late, because he was fully locked-in and in the zone.


Go back and watch the series, and you'll see that I do know a little something about basketball after all. Then pick up a grammar textbook, and you'll see I also know something about the English language. But, you "obv" need some help in both areas.

[jrong]

They were better, but not that much better.

PG:Chalmers>Eric Snow (Snow was very inefficent and his defense at that point was no where near Chalmers)
PF: Gooden=Beasley (Both have their offensive lapses and defensive lapses)
C:Big Z>Haslem (Big Z is great while Haslem is so so)
Other position: Larry Hughes<Marion (Larry was vary inefficient and atrocious in man to man defense much unlike Marion)

Bench: Cavs>Heat (This is the biggest difference because the Cavs had Boobie and Side show bob while the heat have Cook and Joel).

LeBron took his team to 50 regular season wins and the NBA finals.

Dwayne Wade is leading his team to a higher than .500 record and is looking to be a doormat of the East elite.

granted the east wasn't as tough as it is right now, but they still beat a very good Pistons team.

I want you to listen to me very carefully. LeBron is a good enough basketball player. It's not necessary to lie about the quality of his team to make him seem better.

Pay attention to this also. It doesn't matter what name is on the back of the jersey when it comes to defense and rebounding. All you need is role players who are able and willing to do both. You don't need other all-stars. A superstar can carry a team's offense by himself, but he can't carry the defense by himself. But, put a supporting cast behind him who plays tough defense and cleans the glass, and that team can contend. As I said before, Allen Iverson proved that long before LeBron James did.

Miami's team defense is nowhere near any Cavs' team defense of the Mike Brown era, with the possible exception of part of last year when their defense was uncharacteristically soft for a while. Miami plays a scrappy, scrambling NCAA style defense. They really don't man-up and lock down. Wade and Chalmers gamble to the extreme, and this is by design because if they didn't, the other team's bigs would feast on the Heat's undersized frontcourt all night long.

However, when the guards do get beat, the Heat are in deep trouble. In past years when Shaq, circa 2004 - 2006, and Zo were waiting back there, they had a very formidable last line of defense to protect the rim. But, those days are long gone now.

[EllisGW]

Your assertion that the Heat have better players than the Cavs is not worthy of a response. But, this statement tells me that you are the one who didn't pay attention during the series.

Wade destroyed the Mavericks with his jumpshot. The key stretches in that series that Wade dominated-- the 4th quarters in games three and five and the first halves of games four and six-- he did it from the outside. Dallas's scouting report said that Wade couldn't shoot from outside and so they didn't send help defense until he drove. By the time they adjusted and started to double him on the perimeter, it was too late, because he was fully locked-in and in the zone.


Go back and watch the series, and you'll see that I do know a little something about basketball after all. Then pick up a grammar textbook, and you'll see I also know something about the English language. But, you "obv" need some help in both areas.

I think you should go back at look at how man free throws wade had in the nab finals. His huge advantage was not shooting jump shots but scoring at the rim and hitting his free throws. I never said the heat have better players than the cavs but they do have more talent. More talent means they have the potential to be better. I think you should go look up who holds the most free throws in a nba finals game.

[jrong]

I think you should go back at look at how man free throws wade had in the nab finals. His huge advantage was not shooting jump shots but scoring at the rim and hitting his free throws. I never said the heat have better players than the cavs but they do have more talent. More talent means they have the potential to be better. I think you should go look up who holds the most free throws in a nba finals game.

Yes, Wade got to the line a bunch. But, that's not where he won the championship. I'm telling you, rewatch his fifteen point fourth quarter in game three, his seventeen point fourth quarter in game five, his twenty-four point first half in game four (especially), and the first half of game six. He delivered those games for his team with his jumper.

[Poodle Bark]

I hope tonight's game proved once and all that GOBB's comment was totally out of line. I mean, the guy can have a personaal favorite, but to act like there is any analytical data that supports that opinion has got to stop.

Almost everytime LeBron and Wade play, LeBron plays at a higher level than Wade.

Fact.

LeBron > Wade by a significant gap.

[plowking]

I hope tonight's game proved once and all that GOBB's comment was totally out of line. I mean, the guy can have a personaal favorite, but to act like there is any analytical data that supports that opinion has got to stop.

Almost everytime LeBron and Wade play, LeBron plays at a higher level than Wade.

Fact.

LeBron > Wade by a significant gap.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

One game proves it all people.

[Tuvi]

I'd take Lebron over Wade. although Wade is killing it right now

[shaoyut]

Lebron would have better stats if he played the same number of minutes

[Vragrant]

Lebron would have better stats if he played the same number of minutes

They both play 36 mpg

[Poodle Bark]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

One game proves it all people.
He consistently performs better than Wade in ALL there head-to-heads. Plus he puts up better stats and gets more wins when leading a mediocre team.

Wade is good but LeBron is the best. Bout as simply as I can put it.

[juju151111]

He consistently performs better than Wade in ALL there head-to-heads. Plus he puts up better stats and gets more wins when leading a mediocre team.

Wade is good but LeBron is the best. Bout as simply as I can put it.
yea right man.I seem to remember in 06 and 06-07 season wade was getting the best of LJ.He didn't even get the best of him.He scored 4 more pts LOL calm down.

[Killer_Instinct]

Lebron is the best in the L now. They aren't far and away though. Both are playing great ball, I just feel LBJ is a notch higher.

[gts]

I've never seen a guy fail while bumping a thread... this is a first for me

[RedBlackAttack]

I've never seen a guy fail while bumping a thread... this is a first for me
x2

Wade is ridiculously good/great. He proved that again today. I do think that LeBron is better, but this idea that there is a significant gap... there really isn't.

[Vragrant]

yea right man.I seem to remember in 06 and 06-07 season wade was getting the best of LJ.He didn't even get the best of him.He scored 4 more pts LOL calm down.

He's clearly self conscious and threatned by Wade's dominance. Which explains his need to create this thread, and bump it after tonight. The funny thing is Lebron didn't even outplay Wade today.

[juju151111]

I've never seen a guy fail while bumping a thread... this is a first for me
lol He just finds wade a treat for some reason.

[Lebron23]

No need to BUMP this Thread. LeBron is the best player in the NBA, and he's going to have a very competitive road to the NBA Finals next year.

Both the Celtics and Lakers are capable of beating the NBA Champions in 2005, 2006, 2007 in a best of 7 series, and if the Cavaliers win the NBA Championship next year by defeating this 2 great teams.

LeBron will be regarded as the best player in the Post Shaq and Duncan Era.

[gts]

x2

Wade is ridiculously good/great. He proved that again today. I do think that LeBron is better, but this idea that there is a significant gap... there really isn't.they're different types of players on two very different types of teams... you can't just look at numbers and say ones better or wins and losses and say one is better... the fact is both of these guys could play very well together on the same team their individual games are so different..

both are playing at an incredibly high level right now also... pretty amazing for us fans to be treated to this nightly

[Pacquiao]

No need to BUMP this Thread. LeBron is the best player in the NBA, and he's going to have a very competitive road to the NBA Finals next year.

Both the Celtics and Lakers are capable of beating the NBA Champions in 2005, 2006 and 2007 in a best of 7 series, and if the Cavaliers win the NBA Championship next year by defeating this 2 great teams.

LeBron will be regarded as the best player in the Post Shaq and Duncan Era.

Does your pen!s become hard everytime you see Lebron's face?

[Lebron23]

Does your pen!s become hard everytime you see Lebron's face?


Cavs are still undefeated at home. We all know that team that have a Home Court advantage going into the playoffs always have 80 percent chance of winning the NBA Championship.

So STFU, and respect the 2009 Cleveland Cavaliers. :pimp:

[Pacquiao]

Cavs are still undefeated at home. We all know that team that have a Home Court going into the playoffs always have 80 percent chance of winning the NBA Championship.

So STFU, and respect the 2009 Cleveland Cavaliers. :pimp:

What the hell are you talking about? I just want you to answer yes or no?

Yes or No?

[InfiniteBaskets]

Cavs are still undefeated at home. We all know that team that have a Home Court going into the playoffs always have 80 percent chance of winning the NBA Championship.

So STFU, and respect the 2009 Cleveland Cavaliers. :pimp:

What?

Anyways, I really think this topic has been debated enough. The gap between Wade and LeBron is not significant. And honestly, I could care less if Wade scored around 20 and had averaged 3 -4 assists per night and 2 rebounds a game, as long as the Heat keep winning. I'd be happy if Wade could take it easy, have people bash him as a bad player and have Chalmers start putting up like 2.5 - 3 steals a game, 16 ppg, 6 assists and have Beasley throw in 18 and 8.

["Jesus"]

Wade is liked by the refs more.
Wade has a better mid-range shot.

All I can think of. LeBron is better.

Wade is liked by the refs more.
LeBron is liked by David Stern more.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

idontknowwhatijustsaid

[LAShow24]

No need to BUMP this Thread. LeBron is the best player in the NBA, and he's going to have a very competitive road to the NBA Finals next year.

Both the Celtics and Lakers are capable of beating the NBA Champions in 2005, 2006, 2007 in a best of 7 series, and if the Cavaliers win the NBA Championship next year by defeating this 2 great teams.

LeBron will be regarded as the best player in the Post Shaq and Duncan Era.

It doesn't matter what Lebron does he will not be better than Shaq nor Duncan even if he won the title this year. Being the best involves more than winning 1 title, it involves ridiculous stats and numbers along with winning as the man 3+ times.

[raid09]

It doesn't matter what Lebron does he will not be better than Shaq nor Duncan even if he won the title this year. Being the best involves more than winning 1 title, it involves ridiculous stats and numbers along with winning as the man 3+ times.

Try reading his post again.

[hawksdogsbraves]

It doesn't matter what Lebron does he will not be better than Shaq nor Duncan even if he won the title this year. Being the best involves more than winning 1 title, it involves ridiculous stats and numbers along with winning as the man 3+ times.
:hammerhead:
The argument is that Lebron is the best RIGHT NOW, not career wise, because Shaq and Tim Duncan are both great players with multiple championships but no one in their right mind would say that they are better players today... Their careers are winding down while Lebron's is just getting started.

[plowking]

Cavs are still undefeated at home. We all know that team that have a Home Court advantage going into the playoffs always have 80 percent chance of winning the NBA Championship.

So STFU, and respect the 2009 Cleveland Cavaliers. :pimp:

Based on what?

You always used Lebron's stats as a way to prove he is better then Wade/Kobe. Now Wade has the better stats.

Just using your logic and all.

[gpfanz]

Wade's team lost oh nooooooooooooooo

[The Chosen One]

Based on what?

You always used Lebron's stats as a way to prove he is better then Wade/Kobe. Now Wade has the better stats.

Just using your logic and all.

You can say it as many times as you want, but Wade still won't have better stats.

LeBron is being more efficient in every way, if Wade's scoring more is because he shoots two more shots than LeBron every game. Wade's dishing 0.5 more APG -while commiting 3.7 TO, for LeBron's 2.6- and getting 1.6 less RPG. Wade's only actually better at steals and blocks, which ain't really the most important stats to be honest.
Anyways, the only reason why someone can even argue about this is the Cavs are a much better team this year and LeBron hasn't played in a bunch of 4th quarters. As the season goes by, LeBron will play more minutes (instead of this career low 36.4) and his stats will go up, while Wade will probably get injured as usual, dropping at everything.

[plowking]

You can say it as many times as you want, but Wade still won't have better stats.

LeBron is being more efficient in every way, if Wade's scoring more is because he shoots two more shots than LeBron every game. Wade's dishing 0.5 more APG -while commiting 3.7 TO, for LeBron's 2.6- and getting 1.6 less RPG. Wade's only actually better at steals and blocks, which ain't really the most important stats to be honest.
Anyways, the only reason why someone can even argue about this is the Cavs are a much better team this year and LeBron hasn't played in a bunch of 4th quarters. As the season goes by, LeBron will play more minutes (instead of this career low 36.4) and his stats will go up, while Wade will probably get injured as usual, dropping at everything.

LOL, its not like Wade is playing more time.

I can use the exact same argument the previous seasons for Wade. He was more efficient, shot higher percentages, took less shots, played less minutes. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Lebron has done nothing to prove he is better then Wade, while Wade has won a championship.

[The Chosen One]

LOL, its not like Wade is playing more time.

I can use the exact same argument the previous seasons for Wade. He was more efficient, shot higher percentages, took less shots, played less minutes. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Lebron has done nothing to prove he is better then Wade, while Wade has won a championship.

It's not LeBron's fault that Wade's game is that physical, and he can't play as many minutes as him (as well as many games, because he gets injured that much because of it too). Anyways I've never said anything against Wade's incredible ability to score (I really don't like it though, selling and getting fouls called everywhere, but you really can't deny it works very well for him), but you can't compare any other stat (besides maybe blocks) to LeBron's. If LeBron gets 7.9 RPG playing 40.4 MPG is beacuse HE CAN, and that is way more valuable than a guy who gets 5 RPG playing 4-5 less minutes.

Your last phrase is a joke though. We all know what's the reason Wade has a ring, 4 letters, starts with SH- and ends with -AQ. You give LeBron that team and he wouldn't have one ring, that's for sure: they would be more.

[Mikaiel]

You know plowking, you try to be rational and all, pretty much everything you say is true but don't ruin it by saying "while Wade has won a championship".

That's basically the first year LeBron has a good enough cast to make some serious noise in the playoffs. In the past it was decent but nobody really expected them to win it all, even last year. Wade had a good team around him, took advantage and became a champ. Give LeBron some time.

The "Wade can carry a pretty average team just as well as LeBron" argument is valid. But the "Wade has a ring" argument is flawed. If 2 years from now, LeBron is still without a ring, then you have a case.

[raid09]

You know plowking, you try to be rational and all, pretty much everything you say is true but don't ruin it by saying "while Wade has won a championship".

That's basically the first year LeBron has a good enough cast to make some serious noise in the playoffs. In the past it was decent but nobody really expected them to win it all, even last year. Wade had a good team around him, took advantage and became a champ. Give LeBron some time.

The "Wade can carry a pretty average team just as well as LeBron" argument is valid. But the "Wade has a ring" argument is flawed. If 2 years from now, LeBron is still without a ring, then you have a case.

Except plowking thinks Wade did everything for that team and that Shaq was the worst player on the floor. That's why he thinks that argument is valid.

[plowking]

Except plowking thinks Wade did everything for that team and that Shaq was the worst player on the floor. That's why he thinks that argument is valid.

Never said that. Yeah bring in the Shaq argument, that's always a good one.

Wade had Shaq, he did everything...

[plowking]

You know plowking, you try to be rational and all, pretty much everything you say is true but don't ruin it by saying "while Wade has won a championship".

That's basically the first year LeBron has a good enough cast to make some serious noise in the playoffs. In the past it was decent but nobody really expected them to win it all, even last year. Wade had a good team around him, took advantage and became a champ. Give LeBron some time.

The "Wade can carry a pretty average team just as well as LeBron" argument is valid. But the "Wade has a ring" argument is flawed. If 2 years from now, LeBron is still without a ring, then you have a case.

I'm just saying he's hypocritical.

Now he's saying Wade doesn't play as many minutes before because he can't take it. I can say the same thing this season for Lebron.

Also, once again, the Shaq argument. Who says Lebron would have won one? It's hypothetical, just like his, if Lebron played more, his stats would be better.

Wade is having the better individual season this year, and some people seem to not be able to accept that.

Oh, and now he's comparing rebounds between a 6'9 280lbs SF and a 6'4 225lbs guard. Good one buddy. :applause:

[Mamba]

I'm just saying he's hypocritical.

Now he's saying Wade doesn't play as many minutes before because he can't take it. I can say the same thing this season for Lebron.

Also, once again, the Shaq argument. Who says Lebron would have won one? It's hypothetical, just like his, if Lebron played more, his stats would be better.

Wade is having the better individual season this year, and some people seem to not be able to accept that.

Oh, and now he's comparing rebounds between a 6'9 280lbs SF and a 6'4 225lbs guard. Good one buddy. :applause:
ok ISH is starting to become ****ed in the arse.

wade is an incredible player sure. but to go and say, that lebron's rebounding does not count against wade is stupid. its those stats that make a player great. comparing a 7 foot dwight who gets 15 rebounds a game to a 6'8 lebron is just stupid aswell? no, its what makes dwight better and how he changes his team.

but to say lebrons passed individual achievements are worse then wades is just blasphemy. lebron averaged 30-8-8. who the **** was the last player to do that?!

but since u want to compare stats. lets go and compare them and see how legit they are.

with wades and lebrons assist, block and steal total are almost equal but i give wade the edge. even though he averages 1.3 extra turnovers per game.

however lebron also just beats wade in ft% fg% and 3pfg%. just barely but yet again i gave the edge to wade before im giving the edge to lebron this time.

the two categories however that are seperating these to great player are there rebounding and scoring. we all know lebron can score we saw him win the scoring title last season. what we don't know is if wade can rebound aswell. in these 2 categories i will put lebron infront. even though wade is averaging more points, he is still averaging more shots then lebron is whilst lebron just clearly gets more rebounds. infact wades highest rebounding just beats lebrons lowest rebounding. whilst lebrons highest ppg, beats wades by 2 points, and he averaged more wins that season.

now if ur sick of reading this as much as ive typed i want you all to know.
all wade fans are basically kobe homers in disguise. they are not exactly waded fans. they are moreso lebron haters just looking for someone to be called better then lebron.

[plowking]

ok ISH is starting to become ****ed in the arse.

wade is an incredible player sure. but to go and say, that lebron's rebounding does not count against wade is stupid. its those stats that make a player great. comparing a 7 foot dwight who gets 15 rebounds a game to a 6'8 lebron is just stupid aswell? no, its what makes dwight better and how he changes his team.

but to say lebrons passed individual achievements are worse then wades is just blasphemy. lebron averaged 30-8-8. who the **** was the last player to do that?!

but since u want to compare stats. lets go and compare them and see how legit they are.

with wades and lebrons assist, block and steal total are almost equal but i give wade the edge. even though he averages 1.3 extra turnovers per game.

however lebron also just beats wade in ft% fg% and 3pfg%. just barely but yet again i gave the edge to wade before im giving the edge to lebron this time.

the two categories however that are seperating these to great player are there rebounding and scoring. we all know lebron can score we saw him win the scoring title last season. what we don't know is if wade can rebound aswell. in these 2 categories i will put lebron infront. even though wade is averaging more points, he is still averaging more shots then lebron is whilst lebron just clearly gets more rebounds. infact wades highest rebounding just beats lebrons lowest rebounding. whilst lebrons highest ppg, beats wades by 2 points, and he averaged more wins that season.

now if ur sick of reading this as much as ive typed i want you all to know.
all wade fans are basically kobe homers in disguise. they are not exactly waded fans. they are moreso lebron haters just looking for someone to be called better then lebron.

Wade the previous seasons shot better then Lebron, and was a better defender then Lebron. So why the double standard. Are you saying Wade was better the previous years?

[Mamba]

Wade the previous seasons shot better then Lebron, and was a better defender then Lebron. So why the double standard. Are you saying Wade was better the previous years?
what double ****ing standard? wade hasn't ever had a better shot then lebron. its only now that wade has developed a consistent midrange game. i admit wade's defense was always better then lebrons. but u can not say they are not onpar with eachother in there defense at the moment.

[plowking]

what double ****ing standard? wade hasn't ever had a better shot then lebron. its only now that wade has developed a consistent midrange game. i admit wade's defense was always better then lebrons. but u can not say they are not onpar with eachother in there defense at the moment.

LOL. Even Lebron fans will laugh at you for that one.

Lebron has never had a better shot then Wade. At least not from mid range. Wade always shot better in their previous seasons, go look it up. He shoots a higher FG% and FT% over there careers.

[The Chosen One]

LOL. Even Lebron fans will laugh at you for that one.

Lebron has never had a better shot then Wade. At least not from mid range. Wade always shot better in their previous seasons, go look it up. He shoots a higher FG% and FT% over there careers.

He doesn't "shoot" better **** idiot, he just drives to the lane all the time, that's why he's always had a better percentage and scored less even though they've always had about the same amount of attempts, because LeBron is a way better 3-point shooter while Wade usually gets all of his points from driving and FT.

This is so ****in' obvious that I can't believe I have to explain it.

[plowking]

He doesn't "shoot" better **** idiot, he just drives to the lane all the time, that's why he's always had a better percentage and scored less even though they've always had about the same amount of attempts, because LeBron is a way better 3-point shooter while Wade usually gets all of his points from driving and FT.

This is so ****in' obvious that I can't believe I have to explain it.

Why doesn't Lebron do it then? Instead of taking bad shots and lowering his FG%. Wade has always had the better mid range game. You act as if Wade couldn't shoot before this season.

[1~Gibson~1]

Why doesn't Lebron do it then? Instead of taking bad shots and lowering his FG%. Wade has always had the better mid range game. You act as if Wade couldn't shoot before this season.personally i dont think LJ cares about FG%. If he has an open three he'll take it, otherwise he'll drive to the hoop.

[jrong]

The point plowking is making is that if you are going to say "Wade only scores more this year because he shoots two times more", you have to apply the same standard to the years LeBron scored more. For example, in 05 - 06, LeBron scored 31 ppg vs. Wade's 27 ppg. He also took 23 FGA to Wade's 19 FGA.

The problem with this debate is that there are homers and fanboys on both sides who change their arguments to fit whatever the statistical comparison this month or this year is. This year Wade has higher points and assist totals, so his fans emphasize that.

LeBron fans currently emphasize shot totals and player ball possession to account for the difference-- and they also focus on team wins. But, these are exactly the points that Wade fans brought up when he scored less, but shot less and had the ball less-- and was on a better team.

I'm have a pretty strong bias myself, but I'll try to remain objective. LeBron and Wade are basically the same player. If you factor in which one shoots more than the other in any particular year, then you'll find that they have remarkably equal scoring ability.

They are also basically equivalent passers, in terms of assists. LeBron may have a few more "Sportscenter highlight"-type dishes, but the fact is that they both create the same amount of points for other players on their team. This isn't gymnastics or diving-- LeBron doesn't get any additional points for his team for "degree of difficulty".

Wade is a better midrange shooter. This is not arguable. Look up their jumpshot percentage ever since they both came into the league. However, LeBron shoots threes better. Historically, Wade has been the better free throw shooter, but not this year.

On defense, Wade is better off the ball. LeBron is probably a bit better on the ball and perhaps also as a team defender (playing in a great team defense helps).

LeBron has three primary advantages over Wade. His size makes him a better rebounder and also more durable. The size factor isn't something Wade can control. However, the third advantage is a big one. LeBron takes better care of the basketball. Wade's turnovers aren't nearly as big an issue as they are made out to be when you factor in his ball possession rate (his turnover rate is about the same as Steve Nash's), but the fact is that LeBron is simply less careless with the ball.

However, in Wade's favor, in the playoffs where reputations and legacies are made, he has simply been a better performer than LeBron. Regardless of the rationalizations that fans want to make about teammates, quality of opponents (etc)., the fact is that against the Spurs and the Celtics, LeBron flat out did not play good ball.


Overall, I'll put LeBron a bit in front of Wade at this stage, but it's not a fraction as one-sided of a comparison as some people seem to think it is....

[Sandjo]

Tough one. Lebron's athleticism, size and durability make it hard to say Wade is better. But the differences are minimal: the slight edge that Lebron has stats wise is not sufficient to counter the argument that Wade has been hands-down the better playoff performer.

If you sum up all sensible parameters Lebron is probably the better player. However, as others noted as well, I do consider Wade's game to be much more enjoyable to watch.

[B-Easy]

good post jrong..i agree that they're virtually the same player...Lebron has the advantage on defense that he can guard bigger players. Thats basically the only big advantage i see between either.

As far as ball handling, Lebron is better, but Wade's turnovers is one of the most misleading stats in the NBA. Heat dont have many ball handlers so it inflates Wades TOs, Heat are actually the 3rd best team in the league at taking care of the ball.

[MaxFly]

I think Wade is better than Lebron right now too...

You guys are just messing with PleezeBelieve, right...

[niko]

Um, how is this 17 pages? No, Wade is not better than Lebron. That's just silly. I know everyone has their own opinion, but let's be real here.

[jrong]

Um, how is this 17 pages? No, Wade is not better than Lebron. That's just silly. I know everyone has their own opinion, but let's be real here.

Why is it silly? You seem to be another one who just operates under this assumption because, I don't know, LeBron has the better hype and marketing campaign, I guess. Or ESPN and the rest of the media told you so.

Most years, their stats across the board have been basically equal. When LeBron or Wade shoot more than the other one, they score more. When one has a higher usage rate, they get more assists. LeBron consistently rebounds more; Wade consistently gets more steals and blocks. Their shooting percentages-- FGA, FT, and recently even 3PFGA are always in range of each other. LeBron has been more durable; Wade has been better in crunchtime.

So I ask you again, why is this topic silly?

[niko]

Why is it silly? You seem to be another one who just operates under this assumption because, I don't know, LeBron has the better hype and marketing campaign, I guess. Or ESPN and the rest of the media told you so.

Most years, their stats across the board have been basically equal. When LeBron or Wade shoot more than the other one, they score more. When one has a higher usage rate, they get more assists. LeBron consistently rebounds more; Wade consistently gets more steals and blocks. Their shooting percentages-- FGA, FT, and recently even 3PFGA are always in range of each other. LeBron has been more durable; Wade has been better in crunchtime.

So I ask you again, why is this topic silly?

Because I'm not blind and actually watch games and it takes about 37 seconds to figure out that Lebron is a better player. i dont need to go to the stats page to prove something that's so clearly obvious to anyone except someone who thinks arguing based on numbers is some sort of olympic sport (this board has a bunch of them). be real here...

[picc84]

I think Lebron is better now. But 2005-2007 I would have taken Wade.

And its still close.

[jrong]

Because I'm not blind and actually watch games and it takes about 37 seconds to figure out that Lebron is a better player. i dont need to go to the stats page to prove something that's so clearly obvious to anyone except someone who thinks arguing based on numbers is some sort of olympic sport (this board has a bunch of them). be real here...

Oh, I get it, you're another one of those "Just watch the games!" types who thinks you can get everything you need to know about players that way? So I'm assuming you have League Pass? And you watch not only every Cavs game but every Heat one too?

And I'm also assuming that you have absolutely zero preconceived biases about these players when you watch them play? So when you watch you're not just selectively focusing on in-game evidence that confirms the opinions you previously held? And you're also not just filtering out the in-game-evidence that goes against those opinions?


These are the flaws in thinking you can just "just watch the games" and not look at other sources of evidence (such as stats) when you're trying to compare players. First, we can't possibly watch enough games to get a full picture. Second, everyone has biases, and when we watch players play, we don't watch them objectively. We watch them through the lens of our own biases. When watching, we focus on anything that we see that supports our own biases, and we ignore anything that does not.

[FultzNationRISE]

Wade is better because his ego is far smaller.


Good then I guess it matches his DICK

[Smoke117]

Until Wade went down in 2007 I'd say he was better. He then had the injury riddled 2008 season where LeBron was clearly much better. At this point going into 2009 I don't think you could argue that Wade was better. Both had legendary 2009 seasons, but LeBron's was better.

[JohnMax]

All this thread proves is Lebron had haters way before the Decision, and that people wanted to see Wade succeed and Lebron fail.