early cavs and wiz game no idea gt

[inclinerator]

yea did anyone see that lebron 4 point play

[L.Kizzle]

Is Arenas playing?

[RidonKs]

Is Arenas playing?
nope

The team looks good though - we always seem to step up against the Cavs. Caron and Tawn both had nice first halves, and Blatche looked pretty nice early on. Still ****ty on defense, but he's been much smoother with the ball compared to earlier in the season.

[inclinerator]

noooo

[L.Kizzle]

noooo
Wha hapon?

[inclinerator]

Wha hapon?
lol i was answering ur question

[L.Kizzle]

lol i was answering ur question
OK, that sounded like an "shet, LeBron just got injured" nooooo."

[Reikon]

best link available (open with own player) mms://media.xstream.dk/dk4_live_01. No english links available

[inclinerator]

http://www.justin.tv/kostaz009

[Reikon]

http://www.justin.tv/kostaz009

great, wasn't searching for english links anymore. Thanks:cheers:

[Mikaiel]

http://www.justin.tv/kostaz009

Wow English link ? Thanks :applause:

[konex]

Wiz getting whored by the refs on their own court :roll:

[Reikon]

Wow English link ? Thanks :applause:

is it lagging for anyone else?

[Mikaiel]

is it lagging for anyone else?

Yeah I went back to my old stream, too laggy

[Indian guy]

Cleveland just looks dreadful. Mo's in a slump and their offense is as unimaginative as ever. This is a 1-man team all over again.

[DuMa]

Boobie shouldnt be creating with the ball

[inclinerator]

dunno to me its less laggy than the atdhe one

[quasimoto]

Just shows how invaluable Z is for this team.

[DuMa]

no one can hit a shot right now.

[Mikaiel]

Cleveland just looks dreadful. Mo's in a slump and their offense is as unimaginative as ever. This is a 1-man team all over again.

Our offense is really not our biggest problem right now. Our rebounding is.

[DuMa]

only 54 pts at the end of the 3rd..... how 2005 like

[quasimoto]

Cavs are gettings ass-raped on both ends of the court right now...they're gonna need a huge run in the 4th.

[Indian guy]

Our offense is really not our biggest problem right now. Our rebounding is.

When you score 54 points through 3 qtrs...offense is your biggest problem. You have no hope of scoring the ball unless LeBron's either making or creating a shot.

[Mikaiel]

Our offense is fine.

Being outrebounded by 16 though 3 quarters and letting them shoot 47.5% is what's inadmissible.

[konex]

Cleveland just looks dreadful. Mo's in a slump and their offense is as unimaginative as ever. This is a 1-man team all over again.

I don't understand how but their defense is struggling w/o Z. Obviously their rebounding is as well but his length is underrated. Also, the Wiz are packing it in because there's no threat of his jumper as a release on Bron drives..

[Indian guy]

Our offense is fine.

What? This isn't the 1950's. You're shooting below 40% and have 54 points in 3+ qtrs of play. How do you defend that?

[Diesel J]

I don't understand how but their defense is struggling w/o Z. Obviously their rebounding is as well but his length is underrated. Also, the Wiz are packing it in because there's no threat of his jumper as a release on Bron drives..


Big Z is vital to the defense because of his length/height..he clogs the paint up on defense. Plus, he's vital to their gang rebounding.

[RedBlackAttack]

When you score 54 points through 3 qtrs...offense is your biggest problem. You have no hope of scoring the ball unless LeBron's either making or creating a shot.
Completely expected, though. We need to add offensive pieces to our frontcourt, not lose them. I knew when I heard that Z was going to be out for a month, our floor spacing was going to be pathetic.

When Hickson is your only real threat to score in the frontcourt, you are going to run into problems.

[Indian guy]

I don't understand how but their defense is struggling w/o Z.

A home team's bound to shoot in the mid 40's. Washington only has 70 points and won't reach 90 most likely. Defense isn't much of an issue. Rebounding, offensive spacing and frontcourt scoring is. Those are the areas where Cleveland misses Z.

[Indian guy]

That's a horrible call.

[Mikaiel]

What? This isn't the 1950's. You're shooting below 40% and have 54 points in 3+ qtrs of play. How do you defend that?

Ok not fine, but it's not our biggest concern.

There's no excuse for letting a team like the Wizards outrebound us like that. And there's no excuse for letting them shoot a high FG%. We're not an offensive team. Our identity is defense and rebounding. Limit them to one bad shot and then get the rebound. We're not doing that right now. It's how we've enjoyed our success in the past, and that's how we'll succeed in the future. We can't rely on our offense to get it done, that's not who we are. So excuse me if I'm way more concerned about our D/rebouding than our offense.

And I don't think we've been that bad offensively. At the line yeah sure. But we've had some good looks. If our shooters shot the same way they usually do, the numbers wouldn't look so bad.

[RedBlackAttack]

That was not a charge.

[konex]

Wow, Mike Brown is pissed. That was an awful call against Bron..

[DuMa]

this whole game feels like some makeup call from christmas day

[Diesel J]

Mo Williams 2-11

Delonte West 2-6

Wally Szczerbiak 2-6

Daniel Gibson 1-4

==

http://www.3dmd.net/gallery/albums/textures/walls/brick/BrownBrickWall_tileable.jpg

:mad:

[konex]

Wow, Bron :bowdown:

[DuMa]

jsut give it to lebron. he'll lead you to the promised land

[Sinox]

Lebron is out of the cage now

[inclinerator]

i cant count the number of wide open missed 3s

lebron intend to kill

[konex]

Wiz are gonna choke this game just like last time. Cavs are in their heads..

[D-Rose]

Cavs shooting under 40%?

GO WIZ!

[konex]

Butler has got to give that up. WTF

[StephenDedalus]

Lebron has got to be the most underwhelming superstar I have ever watched.

You can't give an MVP to a guy who can't beat a 6 win team

[Indian guy]

Washington's playing pathetic ball. If LeBron's cast even shows up they win.

[RidonKs]

And now you witness the collapse...

[D-Rose]

Wizards really know how to choke.

[konex]

It's a mental thing. They just can't finish games vs. Cleveland. Unreal..

[konex]

It's like they're scared to foul LeBron hard :roll:

[DuMa]

cavs got a chance now

[RidonKs]

It's a mental thing. They just can't finish games
*fixed

[Mikaiel]

Maybe if we played with that kind of intensity on D for most of the game, we wouldn't need LeBron to bail us out ...

[Twiens]

Please don't choke again Wizards :ohwell:

[DuMa]

what a choke job holy ****

[Indian guy]

Was that Mo Williams w/ the flop? Worst flop ever.

[DuMa]

mike james, we can always count on ur chucking... :oldlol:

[konex]

Horrific shot by Mike James..

[Indian guy]

Maybe if we played with that kind of intensity on D for most of the game, we wouldn't need LeBron to bail us out ...

Oh please. If you're expecting to win shooting sub.400...then you don't deserve to win. Cleveland's lucky Washington's this bad.

[Twiens]

mike james, we can always count on ur chucking... :oldlol:

Mike's gonna save them in the last minute here. Guaransheed!

[D-Rose]

Smart timeout by Tapscott.

[konex]

For a team playing for nothing, I don't understand how the Wiz are so tight to close games..

[D-Rose]

WTF was that McGuire?????

[DuMa]

wiz come out of the timeout with a turnover?1?1? jesus what a chokejob

[Mikaiel]

Oh please. If you're expecting to win shooting sub.400...then you don't deserve to win. Cleveland's lucky Washington's this bad.

You're right about one thing, we don't deserve to win.

[DuMa]

lebron ties the game!

[Indian guy]

Does Cleveland badly need to sign an offensively competent big or what. They're forced to go small because all their big men are liabilities...and they can't have 2 on the court all the time. And this has just killed their rebounding.

[DuMa]

butler just looked like a statue.

[Indian guy]

This is some unbelievable choke job.

[Reikon]

Do it Bron, win the game.

[DuMa]

wiz threw it away again. they dont want this game :oldlol:

[konex]

LMAO the Wiz are awful

[Indian guy]

Varejao's stupidity hurt Cleveland there. What the hell is he thinking dribbling the ball? Just give it to LeBron.

[D-Rose]

They stilll have a chance to win it....

[DuMa]

west misses the shot again. is this fool like 2-14?

[Reikon]

could go to overtime...

[konex]

They better not go to Butler. He's been terrible this quarter..

[Cookie Monster]

God dam it Lebron, take it to the rack yourself...

[brandonislegend]

good play by the wiz

[D-Rose]

Jamison!:rockon:

[Twiens]

They left 10 seconds? :wtf:

[Cookie Monster]

Antwan!

[Reikon]

it's in LeBron's hands now. Hope he goes for the 2pt, not pass to those Brick shooters...

[DuMa]

jamison saves teh wiz. 3fg in that quarter. pathetic.

hoping lebron will save the cavs now

[picc84]

Mike James is such an idiot. No wonder he's always getting traded.

Actually, the whole Wiz team is full of boneheads. James, McGuire, Crittenton.

[DuMa]

that was some ****ty rotation by sideshowbob

[konex]

I don't understand why they kept forcing it to Butler with Bron on him instead of using Jamison.

Cavs will win it on a 3. They are due

[D-Rose]

King Travelled!!!

[konex]

Mike James is such an idiot. No wonder he's always getting traded.

Actually, the whole Wiz team is full of boneheads. James, McGuire, Crittenton.

Butler has been the worst in the 4th. Especially that chagre when he could have passed to Songaila for an easy 2

[picc84]

Travel call is 3 years too late, eh Wiz fans? :oldlol:

haha the announcer even mentions it

[Cookie Monster]

lmao

[brandonislegend]

wow they acutally called a travel on lebron, david stern gonna fire that ref

[RidonKs]

sweet sweet justice

[Indian guy]

Good call.

[DuMa]

they called a walk on the king! that cant be right.

[konex]

LMAO makeup call from the playoffs a few years ago

[DuMa]

imho it didnt look like a walk until the replay/

[StephenDedalus]

A guy who is as bad in the 4th quarter as Lebron can't win an MVP.

Man he's overrated.

[picc84]

Butler predictably bricks a ft. Cavs will hit a 3 to tie.

[DuMa]

wiz missed the ft. still have a chance

[OneMoreSucka]

Wow could've called a travel on an LBJ game winning/tying drive every time, at least they did it once.

[D-Rose]

wow they acutally called a travel on lebron, david stern gonna fire that ref

Rofl nice one.

[Cookie Monster]

What a nab, you always miss the 2nd freethrow to take time off the clock..

[shaoyut]

Nooo!

[StephenDedalus]

Lebron chokes again.
MVP my ass.

[TMAC-RAPTORS]

Butler predictably bricks a ft. Cavs will hit a 3 to tie.

Really????

[DuMa]

good win wiz. cavs just shot the ball horribly today from 3.

[D-Rose]

WIZARDS HANG ON!!!

Lakers got the 2nd best record in the League now right?

[picc84]

Guess I was wrong. Bron had a good look, he can make those. Cavs just couldnt get shots to fall today.

[konex]

Good call.

Why call it there though? He does that every game. I don't like it..

[Ian]

There we go Washington!

Good game.

[BigTicket]

Going to be a long month for us Cavs fans, just ****ing awful out there tonight, no rebounding, couldn't hit a damn thing and noone but Lebron even passed the ****ing ball.

[Mikaiel]

Note to the Cavs : No you can't just play like sh*t for 3 quarters and expect your D/LeBron to bail you out in the 4th.

[Indian guy]

Why call it there though? He does that every game. I don't like it..

The entire game had a make-up call feel to it. Might as well finish off with a travel on the game's biggest possession.

[StephenDedalus]

why is Lebron so bad in the clutch?

[Mikaiel]

LeBron also hooked Butler on his way to the hoop so I have no problem with that call.

[Diesel J]

Someome got a video of the lebron travel? (I was following the game by box score) Bad loss by the Cavs:mad:

[RidonKs]

The entire game had a make-up call feel to it. Might as well finish off with a travel on the game's biggest possession.
What, throughout the game there were a lot of make-up calls, or the entire game was called in the Wiz favor to make up for past games?

Because it would be downright laughable to suggest the latter.

[Diesel J]

why is Lebron so bad in the clutch?


:violin: http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

[v-unit]

Can we get a description or a video of the travel? I know there are people who tape the games like bigkingsfan does...

[konex]

LeBron also hooked Butler on his way to the hoop so I have no problem with that call.

Then call the hook. It's like the refs were gonna let it go until it looked like an and-1 so they switched up the call so Wiz fans wouldn't riot. I hate this WWE ****

[Indian guy]

Guess I was wrong. Bron had a good look, he can make those. Cavs just couldnt get shots to fall today.

Today? This team outside of LeBron has been struggling for weeks now. And it'll only get uglier as the month goes on. They have 0 interior scoring and very little rebounding. They are poorly coached offensively and their shooters are off. It's back to a minimum of 30/10/10 from LeBron for his team to be competitive.

[RedBlackAttack]

I thought it was a clear travel. No problem with that call. The inability to grab key defensive rebounds cost the Cavs the game. Even with the horrible shooting, if you secure some of those Washington misses, the Cavs win.

Fact is, though, Washington outplayed them today. We need to move Wally and get an offensive big... ASAP.

[Miller Time]

It was a travel, no question about it, so why shouldn't the ref call it?

It was a good call.

[Fatal9]

Why call it there though? He does that every game. I don't like it..
So you don't want the league to call blatant travels by Lebron at the end of games??

[konex]

Can we get a description or a video of the travel? I know there are people who tape the games like bigkingsfan does...

Remember that game-winning layup Bron had on the Wiz in the playoffs a few years back? Almost exactly the same play with the hopstep...

[konex]

So you don't want the league to call blatant travels by Lebron at the end of games??

Either it's a travel everytime or it's not. You can't start enforcing rules selectively just cos the Wiz are choking all over themselves.

Do I think it's a travel? Yes. But he does it EVERY game and hardly ever gets it called. It's unfair to him to call it there. I just want consistency...

[D-Rose]

Can we stop arguing about the damn call? The Cavs got beat in this game in rebounding and shooting. They need Z and can't rely on Bron to do everything or a 4th Quarter comeback.

end of story.

[Diesel J]

Going to be a long month for us Cavs fans, just ****ing awful out there tonight, no rebounding, couldn't hit a damn thing and noone but Lebron even passed the ****ing ball.

Cavs aren't going to win too many games if their scoring options outside of lebron aren't getting it done. Mo Williams hasn't played that good in last 3-5 games IMO.

Check the perimeter shooting outisde of Lebron (11-22)

Delonte 2/8

Mo Williams 4/13

Wally 2/6

Gibson 2/5 (has been bad all year )

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290104027

Big Z:cry:

[Miller Time]

Either it's a travel everytime or it's not. You can't start enforcing rules selectively just cos the Wiz are choking all over themselves.

Do I think it's a travel? Yes. But he does it EVERY game and hardly ever gets it called. It's unfair to him to call it there. I just want consistency...


They did they right thing by calling it, but I do agree with you they should show some consistency and call it every time.

[Mikaiel]

Remember that game-winning layup Bron had on the Wiz in the playoffs a few years back? Almost exactly the same play with the hopstep...

Although a few years ago no one realized it was a travel until after they saw the replay. If you look at that play, no one on the Wizards, players and coaching staff, complained about a travel. Today there were at least 3 Wizards who immediately looked at the ref and complained about the travel. It was obvious.

[BigTicket]

I dont even care about the call and I'm a Cavs fan, we did not deserve to win that game. It wasn't the refs that cost us this one, it was the complete inability to grab a rebound or hit an open 3.

[konex]

Although a few years ago no one realized it was a travel until after they saw the replay.

Yeah but that's the refs job. It was a clear travel and we'd have seen it on tv live if not for the angle.

Thing is, when Bron does it again and they let it slide, the other team will start *****ing and everyone loses credibility..

[Diesel J]

Today? This team outside of LeBron has been struggling for weeks now. And it'll only get uglier as the month goes on. They have 0 interior scoring and very little rebounding. They are poorly coached offensively and their shooters are off. It's back to a minimum of 30/10/10 from LeBron for his team to be competitive.


I agree

[RidonKs]

Remember that game-winning layup Bron had on the Wiz in the playoffs a few years back? Almost exactly the same play with the hopstep...
It wasn't the same play at all, Bron didn't hopstep in the travel a few years ago. He just walked with his pivot foot.

Edit: My mistake, he did hopstep in both plays. Difference was today the hopstep was the travel, whereas a few years ago the hopstep was before the travel.

And the playoff one was difficult to see in real time when it happened. Bron just moved his pivot foot a few inches.

[v-unit]

Honestly I just want LeBron to get the MVP. So if his team wins 50 this year do you think he'll get it? He seems loved enough by the media/Stern/Refs, I hope the possibility is high.

[v-unit]

It kills me though because I love both of these teams (Two favs) but it seems like they always play each other and I'm always stressed out.

[konex]

I dont even care about the call and I'm a Cavs fan, we did not deserve to win that game.

I'm not a Cavs fan but I think the Wiz were the ones who didn't deserve that W and the refs bailed them out by penalizing Bron on a move he gets away with 90% of the time. :roll:

To be completely honest, I'll admit I was rooting for a long Cavs win streak when they came into LA. I want Kobe up for the game :cry:

[D-Rose]

It kills me though because I love both of these teams (Two favs) but it seems like they always play each other and I'm always stressed out.

If you like both then you can never be pissed at the outcome:lol

[RidonKs]

He seems loved enough by the media/Stern/Refs
That may be true, but the fact that all of it is deserved makes it irrelevant. He's played at least as well as any other player this year, and of the three top teams, he's been the best player by a good margin.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is a stupid argument. It was a travel and it was clear. Also, LeBron DOES NOT do that every game. Take it from someone who watches nearly every Cavs game. He will occasionally take an extra 1/2 step (and he gets called for it more often than people seem to like to admit), but it isn't as obvious as the one today and it is usually a borderline travel that is tough to evaluate, 100-percent.

It was a good call, but the game should have never come down to that. The Wiz should have blown out the Cavs today and the only thing keeping Cleveland in the game was the Wizards' ineptitude.

[Mikaiel]

So if his team wins 50 this year do you think he'll get it? He seems loved enough by the media/Stern/Refs, I hope the possibility is high.

That's what a lot of people were saying in '06. He didn't get it.

I hope this team realizes they need to actually play for 48 minutes now that Z is gone. We easily could have won this game. But when you're serious about winning just for 12 minutes, you don't deserve the W.

[barbaroi]

That may be true, but the fact that all of it is deserved makes it irrelevant. He's played at least as well as any other player this year, and of the three top teams, he's been the best player by a good margin.
That's debatable. I'll give you he's been the best player but not by a good margin at all.

[D-Rose]

I agree that LeBron deserves the MVP, but doesn't Wade too? He is averaging better in points, assists, steals, and blocks. and plus Wade means more to his team than any othr player to their team in the League.:confusedshrug:

[Indian guy]

Honestly I just want LeBron to get the MVP. So if his team wins 50 this year do you think he'll get it? He seems loved enough by the media/Stern/Refs, I hope the possibility is high.

If Kobe improves his numbers enough(he's been on a roll) then he's got a good shot at repeating. LA, assuming they stay healthy, will end up winning a lot more games than Cleveland.

[RidonKs]

On another note, I'm glad so many people caught this game to watch Caron crumble. That poor pass by Dominic was as much Caron's fault as anyone's - if you're the primary option, you can't just stand there on the block being overplayed by your man. Move to the ****ing ball.

That doesn't mean I dislike Caron. On the contrary, he's a fantastically consistent and tough player who is the perfect complimentary scorer to a star. He's been overrated on this board for a while though. He's not even close to a first option type player. You can praise his low ball usage rate compared to his scoring numbers if you want, but when it comes to demanding the ball and stepping up big in crunch time, or just any time the team needs to get a shot off, he doesn't have the gut to back up his skill. He'll step up every once in a while, but that's the problem. It's certainly a nice quality to have when you let the game comes to you, but Caron does it to such an extent that it removes his ability to demand the ball and bail out the team when he needs to. Antawn has the same problem, albeit not to the same extent. It's why we need Gilbert so badly. It's why we've consistently been the worst clutch team in the league all year.

Caron's a great player, but he isn't cut out to lead. Today is proof when Mike James is holding the ball for 20 seconds on crucial possessions and then throwing up 20 footers.

[v-unit]

I agree that LeBron deserves the MVP, but doesn't Wade too? He is averaging better in points, assists, steals, and blocks. and plus Wade means more to his team than any othr player to their team in the League.:confusedshrug:

MVP considerations:

Team record-LeBron James
Stats-Debateable I guess but I say LeBron
Media/Ref/Stern Love-LeBron James
Actual game play-LeBron James
Value to team-Debateable Iguess but I say LeBron

Dunno how wade could win, seriously. Plus he's lacking the team record big time

[RidonKs]

That's debatable. I'll give you he's been the best player but not by a good margin at all.
Eh, the only guy on the Celtics or Lakers who has even conceivably played on his level this season is Kobe, and I still think it's a pretty laughable proposition to claim that Kobe has been better than LeBron so far this year. That doesn't mean LeBron is hands down the better player, but this year, it really is quite clear cut.

[picc84]

Caron is a better player than he was in LA, by far, but he still has the same problems. Boneheadedness in general. That fastbreak where Songalia was wide open and Caron took it in for the charge was a perfect example. He is a charge waiting to happen and always has been.

Then there was McGuire throwing the ball away trying to get it to him in the post. That was mostly McGuire's fault, but Caron should have told him to swing the ball since he had no position.

I'd still love him back on the Lakers though. A second perimeter scorer would be great.

[RidonKs]

Eh, Caron doesn't really make too many stupid plays. Sure that charge was one of them, but generally he makes good decisions. He just isn't very assertive. The only time he ever has any sort of takeover mentality as a scorer is when he heats up for a few possessions from outside, and then he'll just shoot until he misses. Then it's back to being fairly passive.

Given his skill relative to the rest of the (current) team, I wish he were more aggressive as a scorer and as a playmaker. Especially late in games.

[barbaroi]

Eh, the only guy on the Celtics or Lakers who has even conceivably played on his level this season is Kobe, and I still think it's a pretty laughable proposition to claim that Kobe has been better than LeBron so far this year. That doesn't mean LeBron is hands down the better player, but this year, it really is quite clear cut.
In the beginning of the season it was very clear cut. Kobe was in a bit of a slump for a for a while there. Now? Not at all clear cut. I've watched every cavs game and every lakers game and kobe is playing at the very least equal with lebron. Over the past 8 games kobe is averaging 32 pts on 53% shooting, and he's doing it within the system.

[v-unit]

In the beginning of the season it was very clear cut. Kobe was in a bit of a slump for a for a while there. Now? Not at all clear cut. I've watched every cavs game and every lakers game and kobe is playing at the very least equal with lebron. Over the past 8 games kobe is averaging 32 pts on 53% shooting, and he's doing it within the system.

I doubt you've seen every game played by both. And it shouldn't be a surprise as to who has the better team. LeBron is doing a bit more with a worse team then Kobe is, I think it's pretty clear cut.

[inclinerator]

cavs are 3 of the team that gets injured darrrrnn

[RidonKs]

In the beginning of the season it was very clear cut. Kobe was in a bit of a slump for a for a while there. Now? Not at all clear cut. I've watched every cavs game and every lakers game and kobe is playing at the very least equal with lebron. Over the past 8 games kobe is averaging 32 pts on 53% shooting, and he's doing it within the system.
Damn - didn't realize Kobe was playing so well. I've seen a few of those 8 games, last night, NO, Boston, NY, but I didn't really connect them all. I suppose it's become closer than I thought. I'd still edge LeBron, but if Kobe keeps it up, anything can happen.

[barbaroi]

I doubt you've seen every game played by both. And it shouldn't be a surprise as to who has the better team. LeBron is doing a bit more with a worse team then Kobe is, I think it's pretty clear cut.
OK you caught me I've missed 2 Lakers games and 4 Cav's games because of my girlfriend, but aside from that I've been there watching. I agree Lebron's been better but it's definitely not by a wide margin.

[Fatal9]

You really see who the most valuable player on Cavs actually is. Big Z. I've been suspecting this for a while now...his mid range game creates space for everyone on the floor. Without Z this is a 40 win team and with him they are 55+ wins.TROLL POST

[brandonislegend]

this went from a good game thread to a flamer lebron vs kobe vs wade

[KenneBell]

In the beginning of the season it was very clear cut. Kobe was in a bit of a slump for a for a while there. Now? Not at all clear cut. I've watched every cavs game and every lakers game and kobe is playing at the very least equal with lebron. Over the past 8 games kobe is averaging 32 pts on 53% shooting, and he's doing it within the system.
Kobe is playing very well this season. His jumpshot hasn't been there for him since the beginning of last season but he seems to have fixed whatever problem he was having and is now pretty efficient.

I think the MVP race will go down to the wire again this season. LBJ gets the early nod every season because people know that he's going to put up ridiculous numbers. As the season progresses, people tend to look at other players. Kobe and CP3 are again playing at very high levels this season, with D-Wade being a dark horse mainly because of the Heat's record.

The Cavs should finish with at least 55 wins though, and that should be enough to get him the trophy.

[v-unit]

So:

If lets say Lakers get 60 wins, Kobe finishes with 25, 5, 5 on 45%

and lets say Cavs get 55 wins, LeBron finishes with 28, 7, 7 on 50%

Who gets MVP? I say LeBron still but waht about you guys.

[Cannonball]

You really see who the most valuable player on Cavs actually is. Big Z. I've been suspecting this for a while now...his mid range game creates space for everyone on the floor. Without Z this is a 40 win team and with him they are 55+ wins.
:lol

[Grinder]

LeBron got called for a travel late in a game?

That ref better pack his bags and head over to the unemployment line.

[Kobe24]

Lebron just better hope his team is top two in the East if he wants the MVP. It ain't looking too good right now.

[v-unit]

Lebron just better hope his team is top two in the East if he wants the MVP. It ain't looking too good right now.

I think it's looking fine, this is a game where they played horribly (Lowest scoring this year) and they just need to get back to shape (Williams/West). LeBron is playing great, their defense is there, little things like rebounding or finding out how to handle with their small guards will help them continue their great record.

[Fatal9]

So:

If lets say Lakers get 60 wins, Kobe finishes with 25, 5, 5 on 45%

and lets say Cavs get 55 wins, LeBron finishes with 28, 7, 7 on 50%

Who gets MVP? I say LeBron still but waht about you guys.
Lebron.

But a more realistic scenario would be:

Lakers winning 65 and Kobe has 27/6/4 on 47%

Cavs win 55 and Lebron ends up with 28/7/6 on 49%

Very close in this situation. I wouldn't be able to decide.

[Kobe24]

I think it's looking fine, this is a game where they played horribly (Lowest scoring this year) and they just need to get back to shape (Williams/West). LeBron is playing great, their defense is there, little things like rebounding or finding out how to handle with their small guards will help them continue their great record.

They're without their best rebounder, got out rebounded by a soft front court and they are without Z in their toughest stretch of the season. I don't know but with Kobe catching Lebron in PPG, it might be a tough race. All I know that if Lebron's Cavs are 3rd in the East after Boston and Orlando, it won't look good at all.

[1~Gibson~1]

Nevermind

[D-Rose]

Can anyone update me on the game....


Score....

Injuries.....

80-77 WIZ. LeBron with 30/10/7. Cavs shoot 39%. 16 Turnovers for the Cavs.

26/13 for Jamison.

Big Z is out for an unspecified amount of time with a fracture in his ankle
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Cavs-Ilgauskas-out-with-fractured-ankle?urn=nba,131980

:pimp:

[konex]

Also, LeBron DOES NOT do that every game. Take it from someone who watches nearly every Cavs game.

The man himself says it's his "trademark move"


"You have your trademark play, and that's one of my plays. It kind of looks like a travel because it's slow, and it's kind of a high-step, but it's a one-two just as fluent as any other one-two in this league. I got the wrong end of it, but I think they need to look at it -- and they need to understand that's not a travel," James said. "It's a perfectly legal play, something I've always done."

[john_d]

"I definitely knew he traveled, but I didn't know they were going to call it," Butler said about what happened Sunday. "That was one of them situations in which a great player made a move, good officiating, and they called the call. And I was like, 'Oh, man, there is a God.' "

There is a God!!!:rockon:

[RedBlackAttack]

The man himself says it's his "trademark move"
I don't care what he says. It may be a move that he likes, but he doesn't travel while doing it all that often. I can only call them like I see them. I said from the jump that this was a travel. Clearly, I don't let bias effect the way I interpret the rules.

Saying he travels every time he makes a move to the basket and that he does this every game is just plain stupid.

[john_d]

I don't care what he says. It may be a move that he likes, but he doesn't travel while doing it all that often. I can only call them like I see them. I said from the jump that this was a travel. Clearly, I don't let bias effect the way I interpret the rules.

Saying he travels every time he makes a move to the basket and that he does this every game is just plain stupid.
no one said he travels all the time with this move.

i say.. more like 60% of the time. that hopstep is a killer ^^

[konex]

Saying he travels every time he makes a move to the basket and that he does this every game is just plain stupid.

He travels very frequently with that hop-step. That's all I'm saying. My issue is that the refs are enforcing it when they feel like..

[RedBlackAttack]

i say.. more like 60% of the time. that hopstep is a killer ^^
:rolleyes:

Do you realize how often 60-percent of the time is? Just plain ludicrous...

[jrong]

So almost three years later, the NBA finally makes up for one of the two travelling calls it owed the Wizards from LeBron's gamewinners in the playoffs....

[john_d]

:rolleyes:

Do you realize how often 60-percent of the time is? Just plain ludicrous...
yes. but lebron has an arsenal of moves.

just saying this 1-2+hop step move is really a travel and he just don't know it.

[LebrickJames84']

Wow, loosing to the wizards talk about a new all-time low Cavs fans.

[ScolaFan]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/IMG_2220.JPG

LeBron, DeShawn and the Travel

LeBron, DeShawn and the Travel - D.C. Sports Bog (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/01/lebron_deshawn_and_the_travel.html)

Dear David Stern,

Could you kindly cancel all those upcoming Wiz games against teams from Florida and other random Southern outposts, and just have them play Cleveland every game?

I mean, I'm all for schedule integrity, but today's meaningless (for D.C.) Wiz-Cavs game featured a coach ejection, DeShawn Stevenson (in velour or possibly velvet) heckling LeBron James from the bench, the NBA's best player hanging on the rim in frustration, massive fourth-quarter comeback, several last-minute potential game-winning possessions, repeated showings of this "Crybaby" sign on the big screen, (a dramatic Wizards win) and LeBron's lengthy explanation of a crucial travel call against him.

He said it wasn't a travel, and was actually a "crab dribble." He said it's one of his trademark moves, and that it's perfectly legal. Shockingly, at least one official, for at least one moment, disagreed.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/01/lebron_deshawn_and_the_travel.html

I guess this is what happened? :oldlol:

[1~Gibson~1]

Wow, loosing to the wizards talk about a new all-time low Cavs fans.without our starting center :banghead:

dumbass, dont you feel stupid?

[Babalu]

Anyone got a link of that last travel call? Wasn't able to watch the game.

[v-unit]

I just saw it twice on NBA TV and it was definetely not a travel.

[francesco totti]

Anyone got a link of that last travel call? Wasn't able to watch the game.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RGjVFmGBAIk&fmt=18

[inclinerator]

i think it is a travel step then hop

[Diesel J]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RGjVFmGBAIk&fmt=18

Hmm..I have to see a better video but to me it doesn't look like a travel

[jrong]

Hmm..I have to see a better video but to me it doesn't look like a travel

Watch the ESPN hightlights. How anybody could conclude that he didn't walk is beyond me....

Also-- bonus: the Sportscenter guys completely snark on him for trying to claim he didn't travel on that play and also for one of the times he walked on a buzzer beater in the 2006 series! But, don't they know that at ESPN, making fun of LeBron James is grounds for losing your job?

[211269]

Lebron with another 30+ game and another Cavs loss. They are in trouble without Z and starting to look like the 06 Lakers more and more.

[KenneBell]

Lebron with another 30+ game and another Cavs loss. They are in trouble without Z and starting to look like the 06 Lakers more and more.
The '06 Lakers were nowhere near 27-6.

[SHEED_ gangsta]

lol the refs had no choice it was just tooooooooo blatant the entire arena saw it

[Indian guy]

Lebron.

But a more realistic scenario would be:

Lakers winning 65 and Kobe has 27/6/4 on 47%

Cavs win 55 and Lebron ends up with 28/7/6 on 49%

28/7/6 on 51% is what LeBron's averaging RIGHT NOW. Those numbers(FG% excluded) will only get better with Z out, competition getting stiffer and teammates sucking. 30/7/7 is what I see him ending the season with. If he wins 55+ with those numbers and a historical PER(currently its best in history), I have a hard time seeing him not get the MVP. Even with LA winning 65 and Kobe putting up 28/5/5.

[KenneBell]

LeBron explains....


"It's a travel," Butler said. "It was the exact same move two years ago in the playoffs."

So, nothing but confidence when James went through that move?

"I definitely knew he traveled, but I didn't think they were gonna call it," Caron said. "You know, two years ago, looking in hindsight, it was the same thing that happened in the playoffs. And we get that call, who knows what would have happened with everybody healthy. But that was one of them situations in which a great player made a move, good officiation, and they called the call. And I was just like, 'Aw, man. There is a God. There is a God.' "

But seriously, what is a crab dribble? LeBron was asked about his trademark jump stop, which has agonized so many Wiz fans for so many years.

"I mean, it's a play that you don't see in this league much but myself," LeBron explained. "One of those plays where you have your trademark play, and that's one of my plays. You know, it kind of looks like a travel because it's slow, and it's kind of like high steps. But it's a one-two, just as flowing as any other one-two in this league. I was on the wrong end of it, but I think they need to look at it again and need to understand that that's not a travel.

Not crab dribbling. (By Nick Wass - AP)"What happens is when you take a crab dribble and you hesitate, that is not one step, because you still basically have a live ball. And then when you go into your one-two that's when the steps get counted. So if you look at the play, I take a crab dribble and find a crease and then I take my one-two. So it's a perfectly legal play, something I've always done and always been successful with."

[RedBlackAttack]

Watch the ESPN hightlights. How anybody could conclude that he didn't walk is beyond me....

Also-- bonus: the Sportscenter guys completely snark on him for trying to claim he didn't travel on that play and also for one of the times he walked on a buzzer beater in the 2006 series! But, don't they know that at ESPN, making fun of LeBron James is grounds for losing your job?
You mean the station that employs and empowers Skip Bayless? :rolleyes:

There has always been a healthy respect between Cavalier and Heat/Wade fans on this site. You are testing the limits of that notion with every post.

[inclinerator]

More like LeBron :cry:
still havent picked up ur phone call?

[jrong]

28/7/6 on 51% is what LeBron's averaging RIGHT NOW. Those numbers(FG% excluded) will only get better with Z out, competition getting stiffer and teammates sucking. 30/7/7 is what I see him ending the season with. If he wins 55+ with those numbers and a historical PER(currently its best in history), I have a hard time seeing him not get the MVP. Even with LA winning 65 and Kobe putting up 28/5/5.

He'll be MVP, but if his stats go up, expect that his PER will come down some. The general rule is that as usage increases, efficiency decreases.


There has always been a healthy respect between Cavalier and Heat/Wade fans on this site. You are testing the limits of that notion with every post.

Uh, ok. That is a very strange response. You should reread the quote of mine that you responded to. It's pretty benign. Most of my quotes about LeBron are, in fact. And you are coming off sounding really sensitive.

Do I "test the limits" when I repeatedly acknowledge that at the moment James and Kobe are tied for the best player in the league? But, if you're asking me to stop snarking on LeBron when the situation calls for it-- well, that ain't gonna happen.

[RedBlackAttack]

Uh, ok. That is a very strange response. You should reread the quote of mine that you responded to. It's pretty benign. Most of my quotes about LeBron are, in fact. And you are coming off sounding really sensitive.

Do I "test the limits" when I repeatedly acknowledge that at the moment James and Kobe are tied for the best player in the league? But, if you're asking me to stop snarking on LeBron when the situation calls for it-- well, that ain't gonna happen.
The whole notion of David Stern and the media conspiring to create a superstar is getting redundant and pretty stupid, imo. It seems like this has become the mantra as of late and, being that I post almost exclusively in Cavalier related threads, I hear it almost non-stop.

Just like there came a time when the whole "LeBron to New York" thing got annoying when it was out-of-hand a couple of months ago, the idea that David Stern/ESPN/NBATV are placating LeBron has taken over for it.

I have seen you say that LeBron and Kobe are the best in the league. That really doesn't concern me, though. Frankly, I don't care who the consensus BITL is, since not everyone will ever completely agree, unless there is Jordan-esque dominance.

The posts that I focus on are those that discuss the games and react to situations that transpire during the course of them. I've notice that, almost always, you are on the opposite side of the Cavaliers/LeBron.

I could be wrong... I don't exactly go through all of your posts with a fine tooth comb.

[brandonislegend]

I just saw it twice on NBA TV and it was definetely not a travel.

you cant be serious

[Lebron23]

I just came back after a 6 days vacation, and the idiot is still posting in 2009.

[barbaroi]

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=hhv101bx9u0&eurl=http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/01/04/lebron-upset-his-crab-dribble-was-called-a-travel-in-final-sec/
That video shows the play in slow motion about 50 seconds into the video.

[Brunch@Five]

That's not a travel. He dribbles - step - one-two-stop. Perfectly legal play

[Cavs2007Champs]

Travel or no travel, it doesn't change the fact that they lost.

The Cavs haven't been looking good their last 4-5 games. Z's injury hurts, I'd rather have anyone other than Z go down after LeBron, he's the 2nd most important player on the Cavs and has been for a long time.

Every good team needs to lose games and receive a "Reality Check". The Cavs have received a few over the past 4 weeks.

Eventually they will get things back on track, and they need to with this tough schedule coming up.

Of course I want the Cavs 2 finish first in the East and have LeBron win the MVP, but I'd rather see them be tested and fully prepared come playoff time.

The Cavs are being exposed. They need more than what they have, and they can get some nice help with the Wally expiring added with a 1st rounder or 2.

If they are thinking of making a deal they need to make it soon, so they can get whoever they receive acclimated to the team and develop some chemistry.

I just want every game they lose to be a close one, down to the wire, which all 6 loses pretty much have been close losses.

The Wiz are a team that can win any given game, they aren't as bad as the other teams with similar records.

Good win by the Wiz. Cavs need to step it up, teammates need to help.

[Alonzo Magic]

This is why they need Gil - Caron and Atawn's testicles shrink anytime something that resembles a clutch play occurs. Jamison is the leader of the Wizards, in the locker room and off the court. But on the court, in the 4th, it's Arenas' team hands down.

That was a travel from Bron. The extra little mini step was hardly an advantage to him, but rulez iz rulez.

[jrong]

That's not a travel. He dribbles - step - one-two-stop. Perfectly legal play

When you perform a jump stop, you have to land with two feet. He landed on one foot and then the other. That's how he was able to execute the split and travel so much distance in the process.

[Brunch@Five]

When you perform a jump stop, you have to land with two feet. He landed on one foot and then the other. That's how he was able to execute the split and travel so much distance in the process.

wrong. You can do a 1-contact stop, or a 2-contact stop. Both is legal. Anyone who has played BBall on a decent level should know this

[jrong]

wrong. You can do a 1-contact stop, or a 2-contact stop. Both is legal. Anyone who has played BBall on a decent level should know this

I expanded on my explanation in the other thread. You can get away with landing one-then-the-other if the second one comes down a split second after the first. You can NOT do the hop-skip thing that LeBron did and call it a jump stop. If you do, it counts as two steps, and if you've already taken one, then it's a walk.

[RidonKs]

The rule doesn't change whether you're making a hopstep or simply taking your two steps fellas. Either way, that's all you're allowed to take. When a player executes a hopstep, they jump off the last foot they had planted at the end of their last dribble, land on two feet (at the same time or one shortly after the other - it really makes no difference), and then they have to go up. If you take an extra step after the hopstep or before the hopstep (meaning after your last dribble), then it's a travel. Because that's three steps. A hopstep just allows you to travel a little further then a simple two steps would. There's no differentiation in the rulebook between either play, because they're essentially the same thing. Taking two steps. Just by using a slightly different method.

[Cannonball]

The rule doesn't change whether you're making a hopstep or simply taking your two steps fellas. Either way, that's all you're allowed to take. When a player executes a hopstep, they jump off the last foot they had planted at the end of their last dribble, land on two feet (at the same time or one shortly after the other - it really makes no difference), and then they have to go up. If you take an extra step after the hopstep or before the hopstep (meaning after your last dribble), then it's a travel. Because that's three steps. A hopstep just allows you to travel a little further then a simple two steps would. There's no differentiation in the rulebook between either play, because they're essentially the same thing. Taking two steps. Just by using a slightly different method.
you sure? because I've seen dribble-pick up the ball 1 step into-hop step-shot more times to count

[RidonKs]

you sure? because I've seen dribble-pick up the ball 1 step into-hop step-shot more times to count
You can't take an extra step before you go into the hopstep - it's just a difficult play to call because you have to figure out when the dribble is picked up. Mistakes are made all the time I'm sure, but as far as I know, the rulebook calls it the same as simply taking two steps. Why should the hopstep have it's own rule, all it is is taking two steps at the same time. The two steps are still the same.

[Brunch@Five]

yep, I was wrong in this thread. You can't take a step before the hop step, but you can move your non-pivot foot after you've taken the hop step, effectively allowing you a third step

[jrong]

yep, I was wrong in this thread. You can't take a step before the hop step, but you can move your non-pivot foot after you've taken the hop step, effectively allowing you a third step

If you can do that it's only in the NBA. I got called for doing what you described in a rec league once. I drove between two defenders and passed the ball around my back before landing on the jump stop in order to split them. Then in the same continuous motion I took one pivot step and took off and laid it up. It was a sweet move and it pissed me off that they called me on it. But, I'm also pretty sure it was the the right call.

[Brunch@Five]

If you can do that it's only in the NBA. I got called for doing what you described in a rec league once. I drove between two defenders and passed the ball around my back before landing on the jump stop in order to split them. Then in the same continuous motion I took one pivot step and took off and laid it up. It was a sweet move and it pissed me off that they called me on it. But, I'm also pretty sure it was the the right call.


If you don't move your pivot foot before you jump it's alright. Just a normal pivot step, you can do as much of them as you want.

[redhonda76]

Finally the refs called travel on LeBron. The refs had to call that cuz it was so obvious.