Dirk or T-Mac

[Trade]

Healthy or not I would take T-Mac over Dirk anyday!!

T-Mac>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk

http://www.sportgate.de/img/dpa/jpeg-1say3002-20050501-img_8727812.mittel.jpg


http://www.comcast.net/data/2005/05/02/bin16593.jpg


http://www.pixelmechanic.de/media/tracy_mcgrady_dirk_nowitzki.jpg


http://imgs.idnes.cz/nba/A050508_RAV_MAVERICKSV_V.JPG

[SsKSpurs21]

sorry give me dirk. Tmac cant get out of the first round...dirk atleast took his team to the finals. a 7foot three point shooter is a NIGHTMARE of a matchup. hes a decent passer and he is an unselfish superstar. give me dirk all day any day.

[L.Kizzle]

Great series, games 1-6. I would also take McGrady over Dirk (thats no knock on Dirk).

[Trade]

Great series, games 1-6. I would also take McGrady over Dirk (thats no knock on Dirk).

:cheers:

[SsKSpurs21]

hmm, a rockets fan and a guy from H-town...no bias there.

[Xplicit]

McGrady is a loser and has a bad back. Gimme Dirk.

TMac is more skilled all-around, but if I had a choice, I'd rather build my team around Dirk

[ClutchCityReturns]

When healthy I'd take Tracy by a hair over Dirk, but if the Rockets were to get Bonzi I'd actually rather have Dirk simply for lineup reasons (Rafer/Bonzi/Shane/Dirk/Yao)...


but why do some of my fellow Rockets fans feel the need to make these kinds of threads? It always turns into a flame war and makes "us" look bad.

[Silent Mav]

You're a Rockets fan, I guess you would.

[bigkingsfan]

McGrady because he has the ability to take over a game and much better in the clutch.

[DoubleTech]

i take dirk

consistency and rebounding give him the edge

[Rocketeer]

Dirk over T-Mac :roll:

T-Mac will always be better than Dirk
Dirk is a scrub compared to him

[raiderfan19]

this is dirk even when tmac is healthy. Throw in the injury concerns and its not close.

[LakersDynasty]

Dirk over T-Mac :roll:

T-Mac will always be better than Dirk
Dirk is a scrub compared to him
Is this supposed to be funny?
Anyway this is hard, a healthy T-Mac vs. Dirk, I honestly can't decide. :confusedshrug:

[miles berg]

Id just as soon trade Josh Howard, Devin Harris, and Stackhouse for TMac and have them both.

Im too bias to answer this one, Dirk is a top 5 player and TMac is a top 5 player when healthy.

Ill take both of them.

[SsKSpurs21]

macgrady chokes just as much a dirk. he had a 3-1 lead against the pistons. said "its great to finally get out of the first round" then lost 3 straight and was sent home. also choked away a game 7 against the mavs a few years ago.

iam looking at this from a opponent's defensive standpoint...there is no PF that can efficiently guard dirk because his ability to take his man to the perimeter leaves the paint open. macgrady may be the better scorer but thats basically all he does. he doesnt play much defense and he doesnt rebound...dirk was averaging double digit points and rebounds in the playoffs.

its also hard to compare the two because they play two different positions, but if was starting a team i would rather start with dirk because a player of his size and caliber is hard to find.

[L.Kizzle]

Scorer = T-Mac
Passing = T-Mac
Boards = Dirk
Defense = T-Mac
Clutch = T-Mac
Win/Lose = Dirk

[nash4eva!gosuns]

GO DIRTY!!!



http://www.geocities.com/chrisfoley484/SPDirk.jpg



:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[FabCasablancas]

Drk. It isn't even close. People only look at guys like Kobe Tmac AI and Wade whenb they are "ON"... Dirk is a much much better player than these guys consistently.. an he makes the players around him better consistently because of the mismatches he creates.

Dirk makes the players around him way better than Tmac.. put dirk on the same team with Yao, and they'd have a championship. Even with craptastic Van Gundy coaching..

[Rocketeer]

T-Mac got 13pts in 33secs vs the Spurs i would love to see Dirk The Choker even come close to that

[mhsbasketball]

i wouldnt even trade josh howard for t-mac. This guy is a chucker and a loser and never shot over 45% and he is now on a decline. he'll never be where he was before.

[ClutchCityReturns]

macgrady chokes just as much a dirk. he had a 3-1 lead against the pistons. said "its great to finally get out of the first round" then lost 3 straight and was sent home. also choked away a game 7 against the mavs a few years ago.

I'm a Rockets fan. I like Tracy. However, I don't blindly defend him.

That said, I still think it's fair to consider how far Dirk would have gotten in the playoffs if you plugged him into the teams that Tracy has been on. Dirk has had the luxury of regularly being surrounded by a very talented roster, and Tracy generally hasn't at all. You have to take that into consideration if you want to look at it fairly, that's all I'm saying.

[LakersDynasty]

Matchup Nightmares=Dirk
Shooting=Dirk
Slashing=T-Mac

Thought I'd add a few more.

[The Mamba]

T-Mac. When healthy, no one can stop him. No one can stop him even when he is hurt. Didn't you see T-Mac torch the Mavs in the '05 playoffs?

[ClutchCityReturns]

and never shot over 45% and he is now on a decline. he'll never be where he was before.

97-98: 45.0%
99-00: 45.1%
00-01: 45.7%
01-02: 45.1%
02-03: 45.7%

[FabCasablancas]

I'm a Rockets fan. I like Tracy. However, I don't blindly defend him.

That said, I still think it's fair to consider how far Dirk would have gotten in the playoffs if you plugged him into the teams that Tracy has been on. Dirk has had the luxury of regularly being surrounded by a very talented roster, and Tracy generally hasn't at all. You have to take that into consideration if you want to look at it fairly, that's all I'm saying.

Dirk makes the players around him look better.. people don't understand the mismatches dirk creates.. and they also don't understand how versatile Dirk is on defense..

How can Tmac be considered a greta player when the players around him always looks so bad? Great players make the players aorund them look great.. same thing with Kobe and KG.. without Shaq Kobe doesn't make the players around him better.. he makes them worse.

[Rocketeer]

I would love to see Dirk get even close to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dgZ3iY6Iks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw2SXbyfKrE

[ALBballer]

Hmmm as good of a player T-Mac is when he's healthy, Dirk is still better. He's 7 foot tall and has great agility and dribbling skill. He hit's the J and get's to the foul line a lot due to his quickness.

T-Mac is a great player, but what does he bring that makes him that much more special than a J-Rich or a Ricky Davis?

I guess I'm saying I like Dirk b/c of his uniqueness, which I believe is more harder to find then an athletic swingman who can score.

[JSub]

Hmmm as good of a player T-Mac is when he's healthy, Dirk is still better. He's 7 foot tall and has great agility and dribbling skill. He hit's the J and get's to the foul line a lot due to his quickness.

T-Mac is a great player, but what does he bring that makes him that much more special than a J-Rich or a Ricky Davis?

I guess I'm saying I like Dirk b/c of his uniqueness, which I believe is more harder to find then an athletic swingman who can score.

What a fcuking dolt. I cant believe you just typed that.

[JSub]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/curiousg11/IMG_5274.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/curiousg11/IMG_5270.jpg
The get F outta here!!!!

[IllegalD]

How quickly people forget that TMac singlehandedly SHUTDOWN Dirk two playoffs ago.

It's called DEFENSE, people. Something that is beyond _irk's (he has no D) ability or even perception. Pu$$y, chokin, Nazi, Hasselhoff-loving, motherf*cker.

TMac was a defensive stopper in Toronto and is a First-Team defender when he puts his mind to it. When healthy, he's also the most unstoppable offensive player in the league not named Kobe or AI. Handles and passes better than Dirk on top of everything.

How quickly people forget...

[Rocketeer]

Hmmm as good of a player T-Mac is when he's healthy, Dirk is still better. He's 7 foot tall and has great agility and dribbling skill. He hit's the J and get's to the foul line a lot due to his quickness.

T-Mac is a great player, but what does he bring that makes him that much more special than a J-Rich or a Ricky Davis?

I guess I'm saying I like Dirk b/c of his uniqueness, which I believe is more harder to find then an athletic swingman who can score.
:stupid: If your comparing T-Mac to Ricky Davis and J-Rich

Then you are just plain stupid

[raiderfan19]

Dirk with Yao ming would be an absolute NIGHTMARE to all of those saying what would dirk do if he was on the teams Tmac has been on. I would trade Josh howard and devin harris for Yao sadly the rockets wouldnt. Hell i would trade those 2 and Diop.

[ALBballer]

What a fcuking dolt. I cant believe you just typed that.

He's a ball hog, shoots a low percentage, and seems disinterested.

[Hawker]

Dirk wouldnt need to come back by 13 points in 33sec because we would be winning the game. Dirk creates so many more match up problems then tmac.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Drk. It isn't even close. People only look at guys like Kobe Tmac AI and Wade whenb they are "ON"... Dirk is a much much better player than these guys consistently.. an he makes the players around him better consistently because of the mismatches he creates.

Dirk makes the players around him way better than Tmac.. put dirk on the same team with Yao, and they'd have a championship. Even with craptastic Van Gundy coaching..

Dirk disappears just as often when his team really needs him. The truth is that they're both above average in clutch situations though. Nobody wins EVERY game.

It's pretty hard to argue that Dirk makes people around him much better, since he rarely ever creates off the dribble. Perhaps commanding double teams opens things up for his teammates, but the same could be said about any star in the league, including Tracy. You ever think Dirk just has players around him that are already good?

You honestly think that if you switched Dirk and Tracy in the Houston/Dallas series that the Rockets would have won it? You really think that?



T-Mac got 13pts in 33secs vs the Spurs i would love to see Dirk The Choker even come close to that

This argument is almost as weak as it is overdone.

[JSub]

Dirk with Yao ming would be an absolute NIGHTMARE to all of those saying what would dirk do if he was on the teams Tmac has been on. I would trade Josh howard and devin harris for Yao sadly the rockets wouldnt. Hell i would trade those 2 and Diop.

I didnt know it was possible to type with your ass until I read your post.

"OOHHH I'm a genius, I would trade JOSH HOWARD and DEVIS HARRIS for YAO!!
I know it was a difficult decision to make, but I figure we'd sell more tickets with Yao on the roster!"

[ALBballer]

:stupid: If your comparing T-Mac to Ricky Davis and J-Rich

Then you are just plain stupid

I'm just saying I don't think the discrepency between T-Mac and J-Rich is as huge as people think. People overate him and has even been passed the 1st round in the playoffs?

[JSub]

He's a ball hog, shoots a low percentage, and seems disinterested.

Just stop talking. Every word you type just lowers your credibility even more.

[Rocketeer]

I'm just saying I don't think the discrepency between T-Mac and J-Rich is as huge as people think. People overate him and has even been passed the 1st round in the playoffs?


WOW i never knew someone can be this stupid!!!!!!!!!!

[JSub]

I'm just saying I don't think the discrepency between T-Mac and J-Rich is as huge as people think. People overate him and has even been passed the 1st round in the playoffs?

Please, shoot me in the head....like...right now. I'm not even going to bother explaining this to you. Clutch shouldnt be wasting his time either.

[SsKSpurs21]

That said, I still think it's fair to consider how far Dirk would have gotten in the playoffs if you plugged him into the teams that Tracy has been on. Dirk has had the luxury of regularly being surrounded by a very talented roster, and Tracy generally hasn't at all. You have to take that into consideration if you want to look at it fairly, that's all I'm saying.

i see your point and i took it under consideration...BUT how do you blow a 3-1lead when you made such a confident statement on national tv? yes dirk is surrounded with talent but its also coaching and his ability to space the floor...

what i believe is happening is that dirk is hitting his prime while macgrady's back is catching up to him...but even with injuries asside, i would STILL take dirk...only because he is a PF who can ALSO play like a guard.

[DCL]

mavs > rockets

tmac > dirk

some people keep on talking about how dirk makes his teammates' jobs easier. but the opposite is actually more true. dirk's cast is solid. and because the mavs have all those weapons, dirk gets a lot of lesiure that most other scorers in the league don't have.

t-mac, on the other hand, has proven that he could carry a team with almost a bunch of nobodies.

[ALBballer]

Just stop talking. Every word you type just lowers your credibility even more.

Ok, I'll stop just b/c you told me so.:rolleyes: Out of the Superstar swingman I would rate T-Mac:

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. LBJ
4. PP
5. Carmelo Anthony

And then you have T-Mac and VC, and a notch below you have Jamison and Richardson.

T-Mac is just to inconsistent for me to like and he has a bad back problem.

As for Dirk, how many big men would you take over him? Duncan, probably. KG, maybe. Brand, no. Dwight Howard, maybe b/c he's younger, but that's probably it. Just face it, Dirk is much more unique and creates bigger mismatches and is why I would take him. T-Mac is just another athletic swingman who's selfish and just scores.

[JSub]

i see your point and i took it under consideration...BUT how do you blow a 3-1lead when you made such a confident statement on national tv? yes dirk is surrounded with talent but its also coaching and his ability to space the floor...

what i believe is happening is that dirk is hitting his prime while macgrady's back is catching up to him...but even with injuries asside, i would STILL take dirk...only because he is a PF who can ALSO play like a guard.

He was quoted OUT OF CONTEXT when he made that 3-1 series lead statement. A report suckered him into saying what he wanted, then it took it out of context for use in his article. It wasnt televised so there's no way a national tv audience saw it. Enough?

[JSub]

Ok, I'll stop just b/c you told me so.:rolleyes: Out of the Superstar swingman I would rate T-Mac:

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. LBJ
4. PP
5. Carmelo Anthony

And then you have T-Mac and VC, and a notch below you have Jamison and Richardson.

T-Mac is just to inconsistent for me to like and he has a bad back problem.

As for Dirk, how many big men would you take over him? Duncan, probably. KG, maybe. Brand, no. Dwight Howard, maybe b/c he's younger, but that's probably it. Just face it, Dirk is much more unique and creates bigger mismatches.

You grouped TMac into the same category as Ricky Davis and Jason Richardson. I rest my case.

[SsKSpurs21]

It's pretty hard to argue that Dirk makes people around him much better, since he rarely ever creates off the dribble. Perhaps commanding double teams opens things up for his teammates, but the same could be said about any star in the league, including Tracy.

clutch, its not about his ability to draw double teams. its his ability to draw his defender out to the three...leaving the paint open with only one defender instead of two...this makes slashers like stackhouse, howard, and terry more dangerous... avery has figured this out and has exploited it.

[Rocketeer]

Ok, I'll stop just b/c you told me so.:rolleyes: Out of the Superstar swingman I would rate T-Mac:

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. LBJ
4. PP
5. Carmelo Anthony

And then you have T-Mac and VC, and a notch below you have Jamison and Richardson.

T-Mac is just to inconsistent for me to like and he has a bad back problem.

As for Dirk, how many big men would you take over him? Duncan, probably. KG, maybe. Brand, no. Dwight Howard, maybe b/c he's younger, but that's probably it. Just face it, Dirk is much more unique and creates bigger mismatches and is why I would take him. T-Mac is just another athletic swingman who's selfish and just scores.
with every post you just sound stupider and stupider

[Hawker]

once tmac can play throughout the season without him crying about quitting or his back hurting then u can say tmac is better.

You cant say a player is better if they never play. It is that simple.

[Hawker]

Remember the Dirk vs. Tmac shootout? Dirk won that.

[JSub]

once tmac can play throughout the season without him crying about quitting or his back hurting then u can say tmac is better.

You cant say a player is better if they never play. It is that simple.

Hawker, is it your goal in life to write someting stupid in every single thread on ISH?

[Trade]

Ok, I'll stop just b/c you told me so.:rolleyes: Out of the Superstar swingman I would rate T-Mac:

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. LBJ
4. PP
5. Carmelo Anthony

And then you have T-Mac and VC, and a notch below you have Jamison and Richardson.

T-Mac is just to inconsistent for me to like and he has a bad back problem.

As for Dirk, how many big men would you take over him? Duncan, probably. KG, maybe. Brand, no. Dwight Howard, maybe b/c he's younger, but that's probably it. Just face it, Dirk is much more unique and creates bigger mismatches and is why I would take him. T-Mac is just another athletic swingman who's selfish and just scores.
i think my 4yr old nephew has more Knowledge about basketball then you do

[Trade]

Remember the Dirk vs. Tmac shootout? Dirk won that.
:eek: WOW
T-Mac is still a better all around athlete and player

[Juvenile]

Dirk > Tmac

Dirk lead his team to the finals, it isn't even fair to compare a perennial first-round-exit to him.

[Trade]

Dirk > Tmac

Dirk lead his team to the finals, it isn't even fair to compare a perennial first-round-exit to him.
Lead his team to the finals and then choked and failed them

[ALBballer]

Lead his team to the finals and then choked and failed them

Oh ye remember when T-Mac went to the finals, oh wait.............

[Trade]

Oh ye remember when T-Mac went to the finals, oh wait.............
only reason why they even made to the finals was because the Spurs were hurting

Next year they wont get passed the first round

[IllegalD]

Oh ye remember when T-Mac went to the finals, oh wait.............

SO?

I guess Dirk did that all himself, right?

He only had the DEEPEST team in the entire league plus the Coach of the Year....

Stop oversimplifying ****, it just makes you look as retarded as you actually are.

[SsKSpurs21]

since tmac didnt play all of last season i wont hold that against him....here are their stats from the 04-05 season...

dirk
.459FG% .399threep% .869FT% 26.1 ppg 9.7rpg 3.1 apg 1.24spg 1.53bpg

tmac
.431FG% .326threep% .774FT% 25.7ppg 6.2rpg 5.7apg 1.73spg .67bpg

so...how exactly is tmac a better all around player than dirk?

[JSub]

since tmac didnt play all of last season i wont hold that against him....here are their stats from the 04-05 season...

dirk
.459FG% .399threep% .869FT% 26.1 ppg 9.7rpg 3.1 apg 1.24spg 1.53bpg

tmac
.431FG% .326threep% .774FT% 25.7ppg 6.2rpg 5.7apg 1.73spg .67bpg

so...how exactly is tmac a better all around player than dirk?

why dont you give us tmac's best season, then come back with your argument.

[LakersDynasty]

LOL @ the Rockets-Mavs Rivalry, people claiming the Mavs won't make it past the first round, wow :roll:

[ClutchCityReturns]

clutch, its not about his ability to draw double teams. its his ability to draw his defender out to the three...leaving the paint open with only one defender instead of two...this makes slashers like stackhouse, howard, and terry more dangerous... avery has figured this out and has exploited it.

Well put. I agree.

So Dirk opens up space for his teammates because he's a threat to shoot from range, and Tracy opens up space for his teammates because he's a threat to slash. The difference is that Dirk's teammates are good at doing what he sets them up to do (drive) and Tracy's teammates are not good at doing what he sets them up to do (shoot). You can't blame Tracy for that, can you? I mean, you can't polish a turd. Dirk at least has players areound him that are good to start with. Am I lying?

[Trade]

since tmac didnt play all of last season i wont hold that against him....here are their stats from the 04-05 season...

dirk
.459FG% .399threep% .869FT% 26.1 ppg 9.7rpg 3.1 apg 1.24spg 1.53bpg

tmac
.431FG% .326threep% .774FT% 25.7ppg 6.2rpg 5.7apg 1.73spg .67bpg

so...how exactly is tmac a better all around player than dirk?
That was T-Macs first season with the Rockets he was still getting used to JVG style of play

Do what JSub said take T-Macs best season and compare them then we will see how much longer this argument lasts

[Juvenile]

why dont you give us tmac's best season, then come back with your argument.

don't we talk about Tmac vs Dirk NOW? What does anyones best season have to do with it? :banghead: :confusedshrug:

[Trade]

Well put. I agree.

So Dirk opens up space for his teammates because he's a threat to shoot from range, and Tracy opens up space for his teammates because he's a threat to slash. The difference is that Dirk's teammates are good at doing what he sets them up to do (drive) and Tracy's teammates are not good at doing what he sets them up to do (shoot). You can't blame Tracy for that, can you? I mean, you can't polish a turd. Dirk at least has players areound him that are good to start with. Am I lying?
that exactly why the added Novak and Battier this year
So thats why i know T-Mac will be much better than Dirk next year too

[ClutchCityReturns]

Do what JSub said take T-Macs best season and compare them then we will see how much longer this argument lasts

TMac wins in PPG, APG, SPG, and Dirk wins in all three % categories, as well as RPG and BPG. I'd say nobody really has an argument either way so let's just squash that before there's 5 pages going back and forth on that.

I'm really trying to be objective here, but my fellow Rockets fans aren't helping much :hammerhead:

[LakersDynasty]

don't we talk about Tmac vs Dirk NOW? What does anyones best season have to do with it? :banghead: :confusedshrug:
That is still a mystery to me. It's like someone saying "Well, why don't you show us Shaq's best season." :rollingeyes:

[Hawker]

don't we talk about Tmac vs Dirk NOW? What does anyones best season have to do with it?

good point.

Jsub how was that stupid. If you dont play ur not better than them but really only pertains to these sort of comparisons.

I like how people say oo snap dirk choked in the finals but hey at least he was able to choke in the finals. Rockets quit hating. Ousted in the first round next year gimmie a break. I hope we play ur sorry excuse for a team next year in the first round and break u piece by piece to show how bad u guys suck.

[LakersDynasty]

TMac wins in PPG, APG, SPG, and Dirk wins in all three % categories, as well as RPG and BPG. I'd say nobody really has an argument either way so let's just squash that before there's 5 pages going back and forth on that.

I'm really trying to be objective here, but my fellow Rockets fans aren't helping much :hammerhead:
You can say that again. As I said before, I would not be able to choose either one, unless T-Mac really is not healthy.

[FabCasablancas]

How quickly people forget that TMac singlehandedly SHUTDOWN Dirk two playoffs ago.

It's called DEFENSE, people. Something that is beyond _irk's (he has no D) ability or even perception. Pu$$y, chokin, Nazi, Hasselhoff-loving, motherf*cker.

TMac was a defensive stopper in Toronto and is a First-Team defender when he puts his mind to it. When healthy, he's also the most unstoppable offensive player in the league not named Kobe or AI. Handles and passes better than Dirk on top of everything.

How quickly people forget...

It's called TEAM defense..

Riley did the exact same thing with what's his name who couldn't ever defend Dirk.. as Van Gundy did with ryan Bowen and Tmac. How? Because Riley taught Van Gindy the same system!

It's their system.. the problem was that Avery and Dirk's teammates couldn't make either of them pay for guarding Dirk the way they did.. even with that though.. The Mavs really WON both series.. in spite of what the refs would tell you..

[SsKSpurs21]

So Dirk opens up space for his teammates because he's a threat to shoot from range, and Tracy opens up space for his teammates because he's a threat to slash. The difference is that Dirk's teammates are good at doing what he sets them up to do (drive) and Tracy's teammates are not good at doing what he sets them up to do (shoot). You can't blame Tracy for that, can you? I mean, you can't polish a turd. Dirk at least has players areound him that are good to start with. Am I lying?

you make a point, i dont deny that tmac doesnt have help, but in 04-05 dallas was 4th and houston was 5th. dont tell me yall didnt have a good team. yall almost upset the mavs and then blew the series. and this is not just this past year. the mavs have been a top team for the past 4 years...alot of that has to do with dirk.

trade and Jsub what does tmacs best record have anything do with the player he is? his best season was 4 years ago...look at his numbers since then. they have DROPPED in...fg%, ft%, 3pt%, points while dirks has RISEN...this shows that dirk is slowly become a BETTER player while mcgrady is getting WORSE. the numbers dont lie, look them up.

[LakersDynasty]

OK BOB. Who's "we"? Since when did YOU have a team? Since when did you start talking about basketball? Aside from being ridiculed for your ugly looks, all you've done is made a plethora of stupid threads...including, but not limited to: jacking off to the ISH ad, asking us how you should sleep at night, informing us when you were talking a standardized test (although to this day, nobody gives a sh!t), talking about how you like to check out the asses of gradeschool girls.

Just leave. You are not needed or wanted here. Hasnt your esteem been damaged enough? Come back when you start growing some pubes on your balls.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[JSub]

because u just say "he is the all around better player and more athletic." What sad is that tmac and yao is supposed to be somewhat similar to shaq and kobe. U have an all star guard and an all star Center and u cant do ****. We just have an all star forward ****ty centers and OK to good guards and forwards.

Put a bat to Shaqs foot and Kobe's back and you get Yao and TMac of last season. Already, your argument falls apart in front of your eyes.

[SmokyMcNasty]

A sure-fire way to get 100 replies or make your topic 10+ pages long:

1. Pick two top-10 players in the league.
2. Make a "Who's better?" thread.
3. Watch the bullshyt fly!

[Trade]

you make a point, i dont deny that tmac doesnt have help, but in 04-05 dallas was 4th and houston was 5th. dont tell me yall didnt have a good team. yall almost upset the mavs and then blew the series. and this is not just this past year. the mavs have been a top team for the past 4 years...alot of that has to do with dirk.

trade and Jsub what does tmacs best record have anything do with the player he is? his best season was 4 years ago...look at his numbers since then. they have DROPPED in...fg%, ft%, 3pt%, points while dirks has RISEN...this shows that dirk is slowly become a BETTER player while mcgrady is getting WORSE. the numbers dont lie, look them up.
Like i said in the 05 season he just go traded and he was still getting used to JVG style of play!!
06 season was just a plain Sh!tty season for him

Thats why i fully expect him to prove to everyone that hes a better player in 07 just wait and see. I have high expantations for him

[SsKSpurs21]

Like i said in the 05 season he just go traded and he was still getting used to JVG style of play!!
06 season was just a plain Sh!tty season for him

Thats why i fully expect him to prove to everyone that hes a better player in 07 just wait and see. I have high expantations for him

trade his numbers were dropping even when he was in orlando.

look i like tmac too, i had HUGE expectations for him AND the rockets...i had the rockets last year in the western conference finals. i chose tmac in my fantasy league AHEAD of tim duncan. injuries happen i got screwed. i took alot of crap for my predictions...it doesnt take away from the fact that his numbers are steadily dropping, they were dropping in orlando so the "it was his first season with the rockets" doesnt work. ill give him some slack though because he was in a new system.


CLUTCH, TRADE, JSUB, HOW ABOUT THIS...

when playoffs come around we can all hate Dirk together! :D

[Trade]

trade his numbers were dropping even when he was in orlando.

look i like tmac too, i had HUGE expectations for him AND the rockets...i had the rockets last year in the western conference finals. i chose tmac in my fantasy league AHEAD of tim duncan. injuries happen i got screwed. i took alot of crap for my predictions...it doesnt take away from the fact that his numbers are steadily dropping, they were dropping in orlando so the "it was his first season with the rockets" doesnt work. ill give him some slack though because he was in a new system.


CLUTCH, TRADE, JSUB, HOW ABOUT THIS...

when playoffs come around we can all hate Dirk together! :D

:cheers:

[ClutchCityReturns]

you make a point, i dont deny that tmac doesnt have help, but in 04-05 dallas was 4th and houston was 5th. dont tell me yall didnt have a good team. yall almost upset the mavs and then blew the series. and this is not just this past year. the mavs have been a top team for the past 4 years...alot of that has to do with dirk.

We did have a good team, but there's only two reasons for that. Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming. Subtract them from the rest of the starting lineup in that series and you had...

PG: Bob Sura (playing with no cartilidge in his knee)
SG: David Wesley
SF:
PF: Ryan Bowen
C:

Two of those guys wouldn't have started anywhere else in the league, and Ryan Bowen would be hard-pressed to even find a roster spot on the IRL, much less the bench. Put Dirk in that lineup (and Tracy on the Mavs), move Ryan Bowen to SF, and I guarantee Dirk goes home early too.

So the truth is yes, they were a good team, but by the time they hit the playoffs Sura was literally on his last leg, Wesley had nothing left in the tank (played 80 games, 35 mpg, at age 35), and Juwan Howard had gone down with the heart infection. They were worth the 5th seed during the season, but were really a shell of themselves by the time that series took place. It was amazing to see it be as close as it was, and you can't blame any of it on Tracy any more than you'd blame it on any player you could put in his place.

[Silent Mav]

lol, thanks SsK. Sorry I had to play the pity card!

[JSub]

trade his numbers were dropping even when he was in orlando.

look i like tmac too, i had HUGE expectations for him AND the rockets...i had the rockets last year in the western conference finals. i chose tmac in my fantasy league AHEAD of tim duncan. injuries happen i got screwed. i took alot of crap for my predictions...it doesnt take away from the fact that his numbers are steadily dropping, they were dropping in orlando so the "it was his first season with the rockets" doesnt work. ill give him some slack though because he was in a new system.


CLUTCH, TRADE, JSUB, HOW ABOUT THIS...

when playoffs come around we can all hate Dirk together! :D

Yep, cheers to THAT! :cheers:

Just to let you know, I was rooting for the Spurs in the playoffs last season.

[Hawker]

Didnt duncan have surgery this summer?

[gigantes]

tmac with the better individual talent, dirk with the better team talent. so i'll take tmac for the and-1 league and dirk for NBA or worlds. it's a no-brainer.

besides, if i was a GM i couldn't afford to have players like tmac, marcus camby, kmart or artest anyway. you'd never know when they'd be available and when they weren't. you can't build good chemistry if your star is constantly in and out of teh lineup...

[SsKSpurs21]

what happened here? 2 pages were deleted?

[JSub]

what happened here? 2 pages were deleted?

Ya, Jeff got sick of our sh!t. :D

[SsKSpurs21]

haha do we still get credited to our post count? :roll: j/k

[JSub]

haha do we still get credited to our post count? :roll: j/k

NOPE :pimp:

[SsKSpurs21]

Doh!

[BlackMoses]

with every post you just sound stupider and stupider

Explain why.

T-Mac isn't really that different from Jason Richardson. He's played in a bigger market, and had the oppurtunity to put good numbers on a bad team. Similar to Jason Richardson in the last respect. And really, who would you rather have in this stage of the game, a banged up T-mac, or a healthy Jason Richardson? I'll take J-rich.

Dirk > Tracy McGrady

YAY 300th!

From a consistency standpoint, matchup standpoint, versatility standpoint.

I'm not going to look at team success because that isn't always fair. Dirk has ALWAYS had better teams. Any self-respecting basketball fan knows that.

[DieHardBullsFan]

this is not even a question....Its Dirk....hes the modern day Larry Bird and hes the best 7 foot 3 point shooter of all time....and plus....for the last couple of seasons....T-Mac has been injury prone....and that back might force him to an early retirement in a few years......

I like T-Mac and hes more athletic and can do more things than Dirk....the thing is...he dont have the passion to win....hes had big opportunites to go far in the playoffs and he didnt come through when his team needed him....now, you could say the same for Dirk but, the mavs had to face the spurs a few time until they could advance and grow as a team.....T-Mac had big series leads in the playoffs and couldnt take over for his team......

Im rambling again lol.....I would take Dirk!

[*LAKERS_3_PETE*]

When chosing one superstar over another all aspects of the game come into play such as being able enough to play, regardless of health issues after witnessing what Dirk can do (leading Dallas to WCF) I am convinced now that Dirk is proven to be more worthy to his team than the injury prone McGrady. Besides McGrady still haven't found a team where he can take his game to another level, Tmac= 3 teams Dirk= Franchise player (drafted by bucks only played w/Mavs).

[Sneakerpro]

I love the Dallas Mavericks. I have an unheathly passion for them and always have BUT I was never a big Dirk guy until last year's playoff run. Dude fell off against Miami but his first rounds were better than anything in T-Mac's career.

People keep bringing up T-Mac 13 point in 33 and they were incredible BUT give me Dirk outscoring the Phoenix Suns by himself during Game 5 from from the end of the 3rd on.

[Zombles]

Dirk's drive and 3-point play in the last seconds of Game 7 during the WCF in San Antonio to force overtime was of far, far greater value than T-mac's 13-in-35.

I go with Dirk because he seems to be in his prime while McGrady is slowly downgrading.

[Ace]

T-Mac has been my favorite player for years now.
I watched Raptors games because of him, I watched Magic games because of him ,I watch the Rockets because of him....but really as of now I can't take him over Dirk.
T-Mac peaked in Orlando and has been going downhill since.
He isn't anymore the athletic freak he used to be, he isn't the slasher he used to be. Since coming to Houston he has sadly become a jumpshooter, and not even a good one...
Give me 02/03 T-Mac over Dirk anyday but we are not in 2003 anymore so now I'll take Dirk.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

I think i'd take a healthy Tmac over almost anyone in the NBA.

[joewait]

This is a hilarious question.
Tmac had Dirk down 0-2 heading to Houston and proceeded to get punked in 4 of the next 5 games, inculding a 40 pt game 7 beatdown.
lol

[Younggrease]

This is a hilarious question.
Tmac had Dirk down 0-2 heading to Houston and proceeded to get punked in 4 of the next 5 games, inculding a 40 pt game 7 beatdown.
lol

A one man show only works for so long in the playoffs. The MAvs had a better team and thats why they won. McGrady couldnt keep that up for 4 wins because the MAvs figured out how to stop him, or the rest of his team. Dirk has done very little with the amazing teams he has been on so he doesnt have room to talk.

Dirk has played with stars and great role players his whole carreer but ha nothing to show but missed free throw in the finals.

Healthy TMAC is a top 5 player in the NBA.



But in conclusion I'll take a healthy TMAC over Dirk. Dirk has always had stacked teams while TMAC plays with bums.

Another thing is Dirk gets a pass. IF Lebron or Kobe had just one of his star studded teams and didnt win the ship you would never hear the end of it.

J. Terry/D. Harris
Kobe or LEbron/ Stackhouse
Josh HOward/ MArquis Daniels
African Dude/ KVH
Dampier/ Diop

[raiderfan19]

A one man show only works for so long in the playoffs. The MAvs had a better team and thats why they won. McGrady couldnt keep that up for 4 wins because the MAvs figured out how to stop him, or the rest of his team. Dirk has done very little with the amazing teams he has been on so he doesnt have room to talk.

Dirk has played with stars and great role players his whole carreer but ha nothing to show but missed free throw in the finals.

Healthy TMAC is a top 5 player in the NBA.



But in conclusion I'll take a healthy TMAC over Dirk. Dirk has always had stacked teams while TMAC plays with bums.

Another thing is Dirk gets a pass. IF Lebron or Kobe had just one of his star studded teams and didnt win the ship you would never hear the end of it.

J. Terry/D. Harris
Kobe or LEbron/ Stackhouse
Josh HOward/ MArquis Daniels
African Dude/ KVH
Dampier/ Diop
If you think that team would win a title you are retarded. Kobe had a similar version to that team 2 years ago with a lesser pg, a similar sf and a very good pf and he didnt make the damn playoffs so what makes you think he would win the title with them? Lebron has HAD diop and Z whom is an upgrade over damp. I love lebron but BS like this is what bothers me. The mavs have talent yes but its not like their the most talented team of all time that didnt win a title or anything. Geez. Im glad to know that the mavs are star studded when they dont have another star. They have talent yes but star studded is definitely NOT a valid description. Josh howard is not a star. Jason terry is NOT a star. No one else is even close though devin could get there. I think its funny that the same people that rip the mavs players when its time to talk title talk, come back and use the greatness of the players they just ripped to bring dirk down.

[raiderfan19]

To show the kobe team i am talking about
Atkins-pure shooter like jet though clearly not as good
Kobe
Caron butler-an argument can be made that he is either better or worse than howard depending on how you want to go so ill just call em even
Odom- better than anyone but dirk currently on the mavs and alot better than some random african guy
Mihm- not as good as damp but not dog crap either.

[SCREWstonRockets]

Are yall crazy? A healthy T-Mac is one of the best SF in the game. People are knocking T-Mac for not getting his team out the first round, while Dirk did, but who has had the better teams? Replace Dirk with T-Mac on the Magic and Orlando would have did just as bad, or even worst. Until he came to Houston, he hasn't been on a decent team.

Dirk wasn't even a factor in that 7 game series. He got locked down by RYAN BOWEN of all people. And speaking on that horrible game 7, T-Mac and Yao came to play. They did their jobs, but their teammates didn't do a damn thing which resulted in the blowout.

A healthy T-Mac over Dirk any day because just like most international players, Dirk doesn't have that killer instinct to take over the game when needed the most.

[Younggrease]

If you think that team would win a title you are retarded. Kobe had a similar version to that team 2 years ago with a lesser pg, a similar sf and a very good pf and he didnt make the damn playoffs so what makes you think he would win the title with them? Lebron has HAD diop and Z whom is an upgrade over damp. I love lebron but BS like this is what bothers me. The mavs have talent yes but its not like their the most talented team of all time that didnt win a title or anything. Geez. Im glad to know that the mavs are star studded when they dont have another star. They have talent yes but star studded is definitely NOT a valid description. Josh howard is not a star. Jason terry is NOT a star. No one else is even close though devin could get there. I think its funny that the same people that rip the mavs players when its time to talk title talk, come back and use the greatness of the players they just ripped to bring dirk down.

Similar???

Chucky Atkins/ Tierre Brown
Kobe/
Caron Butler/Luke Walton(rookie)
Lamar Odom/ Brian Cook
Chris Mihm/?

[Younggrease]

To show the kobe team i am talking about
Atkins-pure shooter like jet though clearly not as good
Kobe
Caron butler-an argument can be made that he is either better or worse than howard depending on how you want to go so ill just call em even
Odom- better than anyone but dirk currently on the mavs and alot better than some random african guy
Mihm- not as good as damp but not dog crap either.

so are u saying Dirk would bring them to the finals.... that team is not similar at all and LO was playing out of position. LO is not unquestionable better than any1 other Dirk on the MAvs.

[raiderfan19]

so are u saying Dirk would bring them to the finals.... that team is not similar at all and LO was playing out of position. LO is not unquestionable better than any1 other Dirk on the MAvs.
Yes he is. Hes a better defender/rebounder/passer than Josh and Jet while being fairly close in scoring to both. No, dirk wouldnt have gottten them to the finals, he would have gotten them 50 wins and probably to the second round though.

Chucky
Caron
Odom
Dirk
Mihm

Not alot different than the mavs starting lineup. Alot better at the 2. Better at the 3. Worse at the 1 and 5.

[Younggrease]

Yes he is. Hes a better defender/rebounder/passer than Josh and Jet while being fairly close in scoring to both. No, dirk wouldnt have gottten them to the finals, he would have gotten them 50 wins and probably to the second round though.

Chucky
Caron
Odom
Dirk
Mihm

Not alot different than the mavs starting lineup. Alot better at the 2. Better at the 3. Worse at the 1 and 5.

Dirk won 52 games that year with:


Steve NAsh
Finley/ Daniels
Jamison/ Walker/ Josh Howard
Dirk
Fortson/ Shawne Bradley

There is no way Dirk gets them 50 wins. HE could barely do it with that team

[Hawker]

I think LO is better than Jet and Howard especially how he played in the playoffs.

EAch player plays according to the players around them. I guess u could say Howard got "lucky" by being on the mavs and having those great players around him but remember we got him late so dont blame him.

I think Tmac is a great player and lucky at the same time. He was hitting some of the most ridiculous shots aganist the mavs. He would be 10 ft behind the 3 pt line turn around jack up a three over three people and swish it. Lucky ass shiz but then the mavs turned it around and beat them which was awesome.

Dallas-1
Spurs-2
Houston-3.

[raiderfan19]

Odom was out 21 games as well factor that in. And dont forget about the horrible bench. There is no way Dirk gets them 50 wins.
Josh Howard, devin harris, Adrian Griffin, Marquis Daniels, Jerry Stackhouse and KVH all missed at least 21 games last year off the top of my head.

[raiderfan19]

Dirk won 52 games that year with:


Steve NAsh
Finley/ Daniels
Jamison/ Walker/ Josh Howard
Dirk
Fortson/ Shawne Bradley

There is no way Dirk gets them 50 wins. HE could barely do it with that team
Nice of you to change your post after it was completely pointless. That team was a victim of taking a step back to take 2 forward. They were rebuilding that year. The talent on that team is unquestionable BUT 3 of the 4 best players were pfs and for whatever reason don nelson decided that giving Walker the ball was a better idea than giving dirk and nash the ball.

[TiMavericks21]

I'm a Rockets fan. I like Tracy. However, I don't blindly defend him.

That said, I still think it's fair to consider how far Dirk would have gotten in the playoffs if you plugged him into the teams that Tracy has been on. Dirk has had the luxury of regularly being surrounded by a very talented roster, and Tracy generally hasn't at all. You have to take that into consideration if you want to look at it fairly, that's all I'm saying.


Enough with the "what if's", hypothetical situations don't mean anything. It comes down to one thing, Dirk is a winner, McGrady is not. You can say that Dirk has been surrounded by a talented roster but I think it's a testament to the type of basketball him and the Mavericks play. Nowitzki knows how to utilize his teammates, he doesn't simply try and do everything by himself. He knows his strengths and his weaknesses and he uses his teammates strengths to compliment his weaknesses. Dirk has definitely had some talent around him but he's also had to adapt to playing with new, different styled players. Dirk is the only remaining Maverick from the Dirk, Finley, Nash era. We've seen guys like Finley, Nash, Van Exel, Jamison, Walker all come and go and yet the Mavericks have won over 50 games for the last 5 seasons. He knows what it takes to win. The core of Dallas' players this year was all young, inexperienced guys and they still got to the Finals. Who led them there?

[Younggrease]

Nice of you to change your post after it was completely pointless. That team was a victim of taking a step back to take 2 forward. They were rebuilding that year. The talent on that team is unquestionable BUT 3 of the 4 best players were pfs and for whatever reason don nelson decided that giving Walker the ball was a better idea than giving dirk and nash the ball.

Yeah like Kobe didnt get hurt that year???? Like the Lakers werent rebuilding??? 52 wins with with Steve NAsh but he would easily get 50 with Chucky Atkins, thats a dumb argument.

[raiderfan19]

Yeah like Kobe didnt get hurt that year???? Like the Lakers werent rebuilding??? 52 wins with with Steve NAsh but he would easily get 50 with Chucky Atkins, thats a dumb argument.
He got 60 with jason terry. He isnt the same player he was then. Essentially, the people who are saying tmac are going back at least 3 years. The dirk voters are going with at least the last 2. In a debate about who is better now, the more recent info is more important. As for kobe having injuries, yes his team had injuries but you said factor in that odom whom you said isnt clearly better than howard missed 21 so factor that in. I mearly pointed out that the mavs had 6 of the guys you used to brag about their depth miss at least that many games. The mavs started rawle marshall and Josh powell at certain times last year.

[joewait]

A one man show only works for so long in the playoffs. The MAvs had a better team and thats why they won. McGrady couldnt keep that up for 4 wins because the MAvs figured out how to stop him, or the rest of his team. Dirk has done very little with the amazing teams he has been on so he doesnt have room to talk.

Dirk has played with stars and great role players his whole carreer but ha nothing to show but missed free throw in the finals.

Healthy TMAC is a top 5 player in the NBA.



But in conclusion I'll take a healthy TMAC over Dirk. Dirk has always had stacked teams while TMAC plays with bums.

Another thing is Dirk gets a pass. IF Lebron or Kobe had just one of his star studded teams and didnt win the ship you would never hear the end of it.

J. Terry/D. Harris
Kobe or LEbron/ Stackhouse
Josh HOward/ MArquis Daniels
African Dude/ KVH
Dampier/ Diop


Good point. Yao Ming sucks. He isn't a 25/15 threat or anything. And having veteran players must have sucked for Houston too right? I keep forgetting how amazing Jason Terry is, considering he was a nobody in Atlanta and never makes any top 10 pg lists. And Josh Howard, the last pick of the draft, Stackhouse who no one else wanted, Dampier who has never done anything. Yeah, that team is LOADED. Or maybe it's because Dirk makes them all better. Ever consider that? Look at Shaq or Wade or Kobe, they play on LOADED teams. Damn, look at what Wade got to play with last year AND the fact the refs handed him the Finals. Dirk doesn't play with anyone even remotely at an all star level. They are all just good role players who fit perfectly into the system.

Mcgrady did the ultimate choke job-2-0 lead coming to Houston and proceeds to lose 4 of the next 5, including a beatdown in game 7. He can't even win a playoffs series. Comparing him to Dirk is almost insulting.

And calling any Dirk-led team loaded and saying Kobe never played on a loaded team (considering he played with a prime Shaq) makes me question yout knowledge of the game.

[Ace]

One of the problems with McGrady is he literally is not the same player depending on the matchup:
Marquee matchup agaisnt Lebron on national TV???
He'll bring his A game, go to the rack, do everything to win
Rest of the time???
He'll shoot jumpers...

[MaxFly]

Right now, I'd take Dirk given T-Mac's injuries. Dirk is a mismatch for everyone, but I could take a healthy T-Mac over him.

[JohnnySic]

TMac is more talented, problem is he cant stay healthy for a full season.

Dirk is great too, but dont forget he's assisted by a Mark Cuban-sponsored $90 million payroll.

All things being equal, I take TMac.

[JACS]

I hope that both T-Mac and Dirk have an excellent campaign because I think that it would be very interesting to see both teams in a battle in the playoffs

:violin:

[Trickz_1]

id have t-mac simpley coz of what bigkingsfan sed, 'he has the ability to take over a game and much better in the clutch.'Also when t-mac scored dat 13 points in 35 seconds ws amazin, did anyone see that game?

[ronron15]

i take tmac

tmac over dirk

[saKf]

If you eliminate McGrady's health concerns, I take McGrady, but it's very close.

[eliteballer]

T-Mac outplayed Dirk in their playoff series, what else do you need to go on?

[Trade]

T-Mac is better than Dirk
You will see next year

[raiderfan19]

T-Mac is better than Dirk
You will see next year
Hrmm. Do you think the rockets will have a better record or go further than the mavs do? Because with yao and Battier the no talent around him thing doesnt exist anymore.

[TMacsOneGoodEye]

The Dirk groupies have overtaken the Kobe groupies as worst fans on ISH.

[EricForman]

tmac fans are comedy, to this day, they still want to argue taht Tmac is on Kobe's level or better (um no he ain't, and I ain't even a kobe fan, I can't stand the guy but facts are facts)

I also love how they bring up the 13 points in 33 seconds EVERY FREAKING TIME as if that's the END-ALL-BE-ALL point to end arguments. That's just comedy....

example:

Generic Tmac fan: Tmac is the best in the game!
Guy A: Um Tim Duncan has three rings, three finals MVP, and his team is a contender every year, I say Duncan is better
Generic Tmac fan: no way dawg, remember when Tmac dropped 13 in 33 seconds on Duncan? Who cares about his three rings, Tmac is better!
Guy B: I think Lebron is the best in the game, what he has done at the age of 21 is amazing, almost took out the Pistons by himself this year
Generic Tmac fan: You're stupid son, Tmac single handedly beat the Spurs in a meaningless regular season game by dropipng 13 points in 33 seconds, let's see Lebron do that!
Guy C: Shaq's still the most dominant player in the game, no question
Generic Tmac fan: Shaq is fat and out of shape, he can't even hit a shot outside 5 feet, let alone hit threes like Tmac did when he dropped 13 in 33 seconds, let's see Shaq do that! He can't because he suxxxxx
Guy D: Kobe's still the best one on one player in the game, by far
Generic Tmac fan: If Tmac was on the Lakers, they woulda beaten the Suns because Tmac would have scored 13 in the final 33 seconds of game 7, Kobe got nothing on Tmac, yeah Kobe has hit tons of game winners, but has he scored 13 in 33 seconds to win a meaningless regular season game?


Come on Tmac fans, give it up. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, still hasn't made it out of the first round ONCE. You clowns hype him up like he's still the undisputed best perimeter player in the game, when majority of people would easily rank Lebron, Kobe and Wade over Tmac. Dirk has won more playoff games and hit more big shots in this year's playoff run alone than Tmac has his entire career.

[Trade]

The Dirk groupies have overtaken the Kobe groupies as worst fans on ISH.
ill agree to that :cheers:

[Trade]

tmac fans are comedy, to this day, they still want to argue taht Tmac is on Kobe's level or better (um no he ain't, and I ain't even a kobe fan, I can't stand the guy but facts are facts)

I also love how they bring up the 13 points in 33 seconds EVERY FREAKING TIME as if that's the END-ALL-BE-ALL point to end arguments. That's just comedy....

example:

Generic Tmac fan: Tmac is the best in the game!
Guy A: Um Tim Duncan has three rings, three finals MVP, and his team is a contender every year, I say Duncan is better
Generic Tmac fan: no way dawg, remember when Tmac dropped 13 in 33 seconds on Duncan? Who cares about his three rings, Tmac is better!
Guy B: I think Lebron is the best in the game, what he has done at the age of 21 is amazing, almost took out the Pistons by himself this year
Generic Tmac fan: You're stupid son, Tmac single handedly beat the Spurs in a meaningless regular season game by dropipng 13 points in 33 seconds, let's see Lebron do that!
Guy C: Shaq's still the most dominant player in the game, no question
Generic Tmac fan: Shaq is fat and out of shape, he can't even hit a shot outside 5 feet, let alone hit threes like Tmac did when he dropped 13 in 33 seconds, let's see Shaq do that! He can't because he suxxxxx
Guy D: Kobe's still the best one on one player in the game, by far
Generic Tmac fan: If Tmac was on the Lakers, they woulda beaten the Suns because Tmac would have scored 13 in the final 33 seconds of game 7, Kobe got nothing on Tmac, yeah Kobe has hit tons of game winners, but has he scored 13 in 33 seconds to win a meaningless regular season game?


Come on Tmac fans, give it up. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, still hasn't made it out of the first round ONCE. You clowns hype him up like he's still the undisputed best perimeter player in the game, when majority of people would easily rank Lebron, Kobe and Wade over Tmac. Dirk has won more playoff games and hit more big shots in this year's playoff run alone than Tmac has his entire career.
:stupid:

[Hawker]

trade come up with something against that then.

[Trade]

trade come up with something against that then.
Thats your typical stupid T-Mac Hater
What else can i say

[SsKSpurs21]

ALL HAIL FORMAN! :cheers:

[EricForman]

Thats your typical stupid T-Mac Hater
What else can i say


i'm not a hater, i still believe tmac to be one of the top 10-15 players in the game, btu facts are facts, he's NOT better than kobe, that kobe vs tmac argument was legit back in 2003.... he's not on Lebron's level, considering what Lebron has accomplished before 21, and just because Dirk fell short in the Finals, that makes him a choker? Guy's been winning playoff series and dropping huge numbers IN THE PLAYOFFS since like, 2003. How can Tmac even compare? What dose Tmac have on him CAREER WISE other than some highlight dunks and that 13 in 33 seconds?

Seriously, and instead of arguing my post, you just call me stupid, with no explaination... you're the joke here buddy, everyone sees it.

And don't think I'm a Dirk fan, the Mav fans constant whine and bragging on this board during the playoffs have annoyed me to no end, I'm just a fair guy that thinks there are too many clowns on this board.

[SsKSpurs21]

Seriously, and instead of arguing my post, you just call me stupid, with no explaination... you're the joke here buddy, everyone sees it.

:applause:

[JSub]

trade come up with something against that then.

Why dont YOU come up with something, you little turd? All you do is nod in agreement and sniff other people's asses like a retard.

[hotsizzle]

tmac is one of the if not the most talented player in the game. dude has it all..i would take him over dirk anyday.

[FabCasablancas]

The Dirk groupies have overtaken the Kobe groupies as worst fans on ISH.

Tmacsonegoodeye is the biggest wuss on the internet.. he trashes his own best player just to try to make himself look objetive.. how g@y is that?

[raiderfan19]

If you want to win 1 meaningless regular season game that is on national tv with another star 2 take Tmac.

If you want to win more total games in the regular season and or go deeper into the playoffs, take dirk.

[PacerRaptor]

ill take Dirk anyday over T-Mac...here you have a 7 footer that can shoot 3's and effectively play 3 different positions (SF, PF and C).

[EricForman]

OH but to al lthe Dirk fans that are getting all pumped because most believe Dirk to be better than Tmac....


DIRK STILL AIN'T ON DUNCAN'S LEVEL

hahahahahaha I thought I'd bring this up becuase Dirk fans were being ridiculous during the playoffs.

Why can't fans of a player ever be objective and fair? Like, I love GP, but I'm not gonna make stupid claims like he's better than Magic Johnson or he was the main reason the Heat won. Why can't Tmac fans, Dirk fans, Kobe fans be reasonable?

facts--

Tmac ain't better than Kobe or Dirk

Kobe ain't better than Jordan, and guy is too selfish to be lead teams to a champinship

Dirk is great but is a level below Duncan the way Robinson was a level below Olajuwon

[Silent Mav]

Dirk is great but is a level below Duncan the way Robinson was a level below Olajuwon

I don't have a problem with that. I've agreed with it for a while now.

[Zombles]

DIRK STILL AIN'T ON DUNCAN'S LEVEL

No one is.

[Targus]

dirk can do more than t-mac

[miles berg]

This might be the most even debate, player v player, that I can remember in my 4+ years at ISH. For every 2 TMac endorsements, you get 3 for Dirk and then 4 for TMac and then 2 for Dirk, etc....

Pretty awesome if you are a person like me that:

A. Gets to see 90% of all Rockets, Mavs (100%), and Spurs games thanks to being a part of the great country of Texas.

B. Believe that the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets are 3 of the 4 best teams in the West (along with the Suns) which means...

C. There is a "better than good" chance that TMac and Dirk get to go head to head again this year, or TMac v Duncan, or Duncan v Dirk again, or Dirk v Nash, or Amare v Duncan, or TMac v Matrix, etc...

Gotta love the NBA.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

DIRK STILL AIN'T ON DUNCAN'S LEVEL

Career wise, no.

But if you just look at play from the 2005-2006 season... Dirk was the best power forward in the game. Duncan wasn't on Dirk's level last year.

(But like I said... that's only 1 year.. not career.)

[EricForman]

what the heck, suddenly MAvs fans are agreeing that Dirk ain't on Duncan's level?

During the playoffs, I bought this up and most Mavs fans would disagree and claim Dirk is equal, if not better than Duncan. No one remembers how much hate Duncan was getting this year just because his stats dropped? People were making ridiculous/stupid claims like Duncan wasn't even as good as Brand or how Duncan is overrated because his stats were never that impressive. Dirk being equal or greater than Duncan has definitely been thrown around a few times by Mavs fans during May.


and again, I am not specifically a Duncan fan, but I just can't take ridiculous comments like that.

Like right now, I don't like Dirk any more than Tmac nor do I have a thing against Tmac, but Tmac fans are being too ridiculous in this thread.

[Silent Mav]

It's because he isn't on his level. At best you can say the gap isn't as big as it used to be.

[miles berg]

being equal or greater than Duncan has definitely been thrown around a few times by Mavs fans during May.


That is because, head to head, Dirk v Duncan, Game 7 of the best series known to man, Dirk did what only Duncan could dream of.

Same argument with Wade v Dirk, only Mavs fans take it.

IMO, still, Duncan>>Dirk>>>James>>>>Wade

Just one fans opinion.

[SsKSpurs21]

This might be the most even debate, player v player, that I can remember in my 4+ years at ISH. For every 2 TMac endorsements, you get 3 for Dirk and then 4 for TMac and then 2 for Dirk, etc....

Pretty awesome if you are a person like me that:

A. Gets to see 90% of all Rockets, Mavs (100%), and Spurs games thanks to being a part of the great country of Texas.

B. Believe that the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets are 3 of the 4 best teams in the West (along with the Suns) which means...

C. There is a "better than good" chance that TMac and Dirk get to go head to head again this year, or TMac v Duncan, or Duncan v Dirk again, or Dirk v Nash, or Amare v Duncan, or TMac v Matrix, etc...

Gotta love the NBA.


AMEN TO THAT!

http://imagehost.epier.com/7291/pcdmwt.jpg

[Shogon]

T-Mac is flat out better than Dirk period. I don't want to hear none of that **** about Dirk winning more. When has McGrady even ONCE had a roster as good as Dirk's been blessed with for years. True... McGrady probably has a better sidekick now than Dirk ever had but overall cast? Not even close. And T-Mac + Yao have only been together for basically what amounts to one season. If McGrady stays healthy this year and so does Yao, I wouldn't be suprised if they win 58ish games.

McGrady is the most naturally talented player in the damn league, people.

[Hawker]

i thought darko was?

[LakersDynasty]

That is because, head to head, Dirk v Duncan, Game 7 of the best series known to man, Dirk did what only Duncan could dream of.

Same argument with Wade v Dirk, only Mavs fans take it.

IMO, still, Duncan>>Dirk>>>James>>>>Wade

Just one fans opinion.
Co-sign.

[Shogon]

i thought darko was?

No. Darko's up there but I wouldn't put him with McGrady.

Anyone who's watched McGrady knows how smooth the guy is. His biggest problems are his back, shot selection & desire. If he had all three of those things working as perfectly as could be, I don't have any doubt that he'd be considered the best player in the world by pretty much everyone.

[R.I.P.]

mavs > rockets

tmac > dirk

some people keep on talking about how dirk makes his teammates' jobs easier. but the opposite is actually more true. dirk's cast is solid. and because the mavs have all those weapons, dirk gets a lot of lesiure that most other scorers in the league don't have.

t-mac, on the other hand, has proven that he could carry a team with almost a bunch of nobodies.

What is funny, is that Tony Meija has ranked the Top 20 players for each position and the only Mavs player besides Dirk, who cracked the Top 20 at his position was Jason Terry. The Mavs are a well constructed team, BUT well constructed teams still need ONE guy, who makes it all click and happen. I don

[JSub]

Basically, here's the dealio...

TMac was injuried ALL of last season. People are dumb. They forget greatness very quickly. You get an eyefull of D.Wade and Dirk for a year...then your mind starts playing tricks on you. You start imagining things...you place TMac on the level of RICKY DAVIS. All the attention gets placed on Kobe's insane offensive abilities when there is no TMac to balance the share of camera time. The guy scored 63 points before Kobe 81...but you all forgot that. 63 is CAKE right? Maybe Ricky could do it too?

But no worries...TMac will make you all remember this season. Dont sleep on this guy. He's one of the most naturally gifted and talented NBA of all time.

[The Mamba]

T-Mac over Dirk, in virtually every aspect of the game.

[The Mamba]

Kobe and T-Mac are the most talented wingmen since MJ.

[JSub]

Kobe and T-Mac are the most talented wingmen since MJ.

No doubt about that. LeBron and Wade arent worthy successors...I cant imagine an NBA without Kobe or TMac. I'll cry when they retire.

[The Mamba]

Seriously. How soon they forget. How soon they forget T-mac giving Bron the daddy d1ck during their meetings. Oh, how soon they forget. How soon they forget T-Mac shutting down Nazi #41 in the playoffs, and averaging 31 ppg on the Mavericks ass. While ****ting on Shawn Bradely like it was his job. If only Yao played aggressive that series, Dallas wouldn't have had a chance in hell.

[JSub]

Seriously. How soon they forget. How soon they forget T-mac giving Bron the daddy d1ck during their meetings. Oh, how soon they forget. How soon they forget T-Mac shutting down Nazi #41 in the playoffs, and averaging 31 ppg on the Mavericks ass. While ****ting on Shawn Bradely like it was his job. If only Yao played aggressive that series, Dallas wouldn't have had a chance in hell.

Substitute present day Yao into that series and they couldve been in the WCF.

[The Mamba]

Substitute present day Yao into that series and they couldve been in the WCF.
No doubt. I'm hoping for that this year. A mean Yao, and a mean / healthy T-Mac. Bye Bye, Phoenix / Dallas !!!

[Trade]

No doubt. I'm hoping for that this year. A mean Yao, and a mean / healthy T-Mac. Bye Bye, Phoenix / Dallas !!!

:cheers: to Mamba and JSub

Now these are examples of a smart posters

[Silent Mav]

If agreeing with your Rocket homer posts makes you a smart poster. Then Marky would be considered a genius.

[The Mamba]

Here is the thing though, I'm not a Rocket homer. I actually used to live in Dallas. Plano to be exact. Just real talk.

[Silent Mav]

I know Mamba. Just a shot at the smart posters remark. You're a Bulls fan if I remember.

[The Mamba]

Bulls / Kobe and Phil Jackson "Laker" fan

[RidonKs]

If agreeing with your Rocket homer posts makes you a smart poster. Then Marky would be considered a genius.

:roll: :roll: Good ol' Marky. Always with breaking news and sources to back it up...

Guys guys, I swear, TMacs gonna be AWSOME this year, and his backs 100%. Hes back guys. im tellin the truth. hes gonna be mvp next year, and the rockets will kill every team and hell average 50ppg.

GO TMAC!!!

[Zombles]

But no worries...TMac will make you all remember this season. Dont sleep on this guy. He's one of the most naturally gifted and talented NBA of all time.

He's also a heartless quitter with back problems talking about retirement.

[JSub]

He's also a heartless quitter with back problems talking about retirement.

People say stupid things when they're down. There's no way I can back up TMac's statements while he was hurt and while his team was down and out. All I can say is that he'll have much to prove to everyone this season and that I dont think he'll let us down. He's gotten plenty of rest, his back feels good, he finally have the dominant center he's always wanted, he's married to his long time gf, he's got two kids, nobody is dropping dead in his family. I think we're in the workings of a career season and an extended playoff run.

[BankShot]

If agreeing with your Rocket homer posts makes you a smart poster. Then Marky would be considered a genius.

Surprise surprise.... a Mav Homer calling out a Rocket Homer in a thread about T-Mac vs. Dirk.

The only thing more predictable than a Houston fan saying TMac>>>Dirk is in turn having a Mavs homer jump in and call him out for being biased.

Classic.

[BankShot]

Mavs and Rockets fans should be exempt from replying to this topic, all it does is create mass bias and arguments.

If you have a predisposed affinity towards either team or player, you needn't reply because of your skewed opinion on the question.

[Hawker]

People say stupid things when they're down. There's no way I can back up TMac's statements while he was hurt and while his team was down and out.

Same thing happened with rafer alston on the toronto raptors. They had a big game and a scuffle with the coaches and after the game rafer said something along the lines of "retiring" and "its not fun anymore." The next game he had 20 pts 10 assists.

So ya People do say stupid things when their team is sucking.

[Hawker]

I'd hardly call silent mav a mavs homer.

[BankShot]

I'd hardly call silent mav a mavs homer.

Maybe i'm overusing the term "homer" but when you have the name "Mav" in your user name and the Maverick's logo as your avatar, you just might be too biased to fairly or productively participate in a T-Mac vs. Dirk discussion.

[miles berg]

I agree about TMac being right there as the most naturally talented player in the NBA (I think it is TMac and LeBron, just pure talent). But talent only means so much, doesn't mean you are better than anyone.

Derrick Coleman might have been the most talented PF in the history of organized basketball but where did that get him? Now TMac has done alot more than DC, well atleast for a longer time (cause DC was the man for a short period), so this argument isnt really the same as it is with DC.

Now, if TMac can get it together and do what he is capable of for a period of time, then he becomes better than other players. But talent doesn't always mean you are better, there are alot of other things involved in making you the best.

[Silent Mav]

bankshot, I was making fun of the smart poster remark. If you look at the thread I've said nothing bad about Tmac. Really haven't mentioned him. About the only thing I've said was Duncan was better than Dirk.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

funniest thing about this thread is Tracy"I can't seem to ever get out of the first round"McGrady fans calling Dirk a choker. TMac is a great player, but an unbelievable choker in the playoffs. Detroit series and the series against the Mavs itself. Atleast Dirk took his team to the finals. TMac might be a better one on one player than Dirk, but Dirk knows how to carry his team to a win. So if we're playing back in the Rucker Park I'll take TMac, but if I'm starting a team in the NBA I'll take Dirk.

[Silent Mav]

Mavs and Rockets fans should be exempt from replying to this topic, all it does is create mass bias and arguments.

If you have a predisposed affinity towards either team or player, you needn't reply because of your skewed opinion on the question.

A Rocket fan started the thread. Kind of throws out the bias from the start, doesn't it? You were picking out one comment made in jest and blowing it way out of proportion. According to you, a Mavs or Rocket fan shouldn't participate in any thread regarding their teams.

[DeuceWallaces]

How can any T-Mac fan bash someone else for choking.

This guy is the KING of choking.

3-1 lead in the first round, and get's shut down by a rookie Tayshaun Prince after talking mad trash in the press about getting to the second round.

[llmy]

[QUOTE=Trade]Healthy or not I would take T-Mac over Dirk anyday!!

T-Mac>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk

Really???
not Healthy T-Mac over Dirk anyday???

[eliteballer]

What can Dirk do that T-Mac can't?(Don't say "Get out of the first round") Nothing. What can T-Mac do that Dirk can't? A lot.

[raiderfan19]

What can Dirk do that T-Mac can't?(Don't say "Get out of the first round") Nothing. What can T-Mac do that Dirk can't? A lot.
he shoots better, he rebounds better, he defends in the post better, he gets to the line better, etc....

[Trade]

I understand if people say Dirk is better than T-Mac when hes hurt
But if T-Mac is healthy hes right next to Kobe and yes i said it i think hes even better than Lebron when healthy Dirk isnt even close to that level

Dirk > Hurt T-Mac

Healthy T-Mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dirk

[Rocketeer]

I would even take a hurt T-Mac over Dirk "The Jerk" Nowitzki

[DeuceWallaces]

I would even take a hurt T-Mac over Dirk "The Jerk" Nowitzki

Well, at least you could enjoy the playoffs from the comfort of your home then, cos you wouldn't be watching them in Houston.

[Rocketeer]

Well, at least you could enjoy the playoffs from the comfort of your home then, cos you wouldn't be watching them in Houston.
:stupid:

If you dont think the Rockets will make the playoffs next year than you are just plain stupid

[lakers-city]

I would even take a hurt T-Mac over Dirk "The Jerk" Nowitzki

yeah because t-mac has lead his teams to the finals so may times.

[raiderfan19]

:stupid:

If you dont think the Rockets will make the playoffs next year than you are just plain stupid
If you think the rockets will be better than the mavs, so are you.

[Rocketeer]

If you think the rockets will be better than the mavs, so are you.
Just wait and see next year if T-Mac is Healthy as he says then the Mavs will get destroyed by my Rockets

[raiderfan19]

Just wait and see next year if T-Mac is Healthy as he says then the Mavs will get destroyed by my Rockets
Im still wondering, you want to do that avatar bet???

[lakers-city]

Just wait and see next year if T-Mac is Healthy as he says then the Mavs will get destroyed by my Rockets

with a healthy mcgrady and yao ming the rockets couldnt beat dallas, aven after having a 2-0 lead, and that dallas team was weaker deffensively than this dallas team, you wont be beating them anytime soon.

[Rocketeer]

Im still wondering, you want to do that avatar bet???
How do i know if T-Mac will be healthy or not???

[DeuceWallaces]

:stupid:

If you dont think the Rockets will make the playoffs next year than you are just plain stupid

Dude, you don't get it. The Rockets aren't good, and won't make the playoffs, because T-Mac isn't healthy.

It isn't a question, it's an answer.

He has a chronic bad back. Prolly the worst injury in sports that will never go away, and only get worse as he gets older.

[JSub]

Dude, you don't get it. The Rockets aren't good, and won't make the playoffs, because T-Mac isn't healthy.

It isn't a question, it's an answer.

He has a chronic bad back. Prolly the worst injury in sports that will never go away, and only get worse as he gets older.

If the Rockets arent good, then why are they considered among the top 6 teams in the West?

[xxxSuperStar]

If the Rockets don't make the playoffs this year, I will have to easily move T-Mac out of the top 10 players, and I am a T-Mac fan.

He hasn't done anything forever, doesn't do **** in the playoffs, just scores in bunches.

If it wasn't for his amazing burst last year, I would've been moving him down anyways.

He is the Grant Hill of today. Started great, ended way too early and has never lived up yet.

[lakers-city]

If the Rockets arent good, then why are they considered among the top 6 teams in the West?

spurs, dallas, suns are better than houston no question asked, lakers, kings, clippers are arguably better as well, so what if they are top 6 or top 10 ? you have to be top 1 to actually acomplish something.

[JSub]

spurs, dallas, suns are better than houston no question asked, lakers, kings, clippers are arguably better as well, so what if they are top 6 or top 10 ? you have to be top 1 to actually acomplish something.

Dont make me laugh. Only delirious Laker fans like yourself consider the Lakers better than the Rockets.

What the hell do you mean by: "you have to be TOP 1 to actually accomplish something"? What kind of a dumb argument is that? Are you saying everybody not named "Miami Heat" should just give up? Because the last time I checked, there can be only one #1 and we only have one defending champion. So I guess a team ranked #6 should just toss in the towel and sulk in tears.

[DeuceWallaces]

If the Rockets arent good, then why are they considered among the top 6 teams in the West?

Aren't there 8 playoff spots? I'm confused.

If the top 8 teams make the playoffs, and the Rockets are a top 6 team, I don't get it? Help me out.

The Rockets are only a top 6 team in teh west when you play Live and turn off injuries.

[raiderfan19]

I will give you a condition on the tmac thing. If he plays less than 70 games, the bet is off. Aside from that, if the mavs have the better record, I get to pick an avatar for you rocketeer. If not, you can pick an avatar for me.

I get the same thing for dirk though as far as injuries are concerned.

[HALLandOATES]

Aren't there 8 playoff spots? I'm confused.

If the top 8 teams make the playoffs, and the Rockets are a top 6 team, I don't get it? Help me out.

The Rockets are only a top 6 team in teh west when you play Live and turn off injuries.
:roll:

[JSub]

Aren't there 8 playoff spots? I'm confused.

If the top 8 teams make the playoffs, and the Rockets are a top 6 team, I don't get it? Help me out.

The Rockets are only a top 6 team in teh west when you play Live and turn off injuries.

You're confused because you're a retard. Somebody help this guy out. So I guess the Spurs are a Top 8 team and not a Top 3 team, since there is apparently no difference to you.

[lakers-city]

Dont make me laugh. Only delirious Laker fans like yourself consider the Lakers better than the Rockets.

What the hell do you mean by: "you have to be TOP 1 to actually accomplish something"? What kind of a dumb argument is that? Are you saying everybody not named "Miami Heat" should just give up? Because the last time I checked, there can be only one #1 and we only have one defending champion. So I guess a team ranked #6 should just toss in the towel and sulk in tears.

our superstar isnt an overrated injury prone wannabe who hasnt won jack in his life.

also of course you shouldnt give up, but anything less than a championship is a failure.

[JSub]

our superstar isnt an overrated injury prone wannabe who hasnt won jack in his life.

also of course you shouldnt give up, but anything less than a championship is a failure.

Our superstar isnt a rapist. :violin:

[lakers-city]

our superstar has rings and a healthy back :applause:

[DeuceWallaces]

You're confused because you're a retard. Somebody help this guy out. So I guess the Spurs are a Top 8 team and not a Top 3 team, since there is apparently no difference to you.

You're having a problem with logic again.

Being a top 8 team and being a top 3 team aren't mutually exclusive.

A team could be both.

[JSub]

You're having a problem with logic again.

Being a top 8 team and being a top 3 team aren't mutually exclusive.

A team could be both.

Exactly, you just justified my statement that Rockets are a Top 6 team in the west. Why would I say they're a Top 8 team when they're better than #7 and 8? DUH FREAK

[lakers-city]

no one denies they are a top 6 team, but you have to be at least be top 3 in your conference to have some real aspirations.

[DeuceWallaces]

Haha, please tell me you're joking.

Rockets would have to make the playoffs to be a top 8 team. And they didn't even come close last year.

So the Rockets are a top 6 team, even though they didn't make the playoffs last year and barely had the 5th best record the year before, and are entirely reliant upon two injury prone players?

[JSub]

Haha, please tell me you're joking.

Rockets would have to make the playoffs to be a top 8 team. And they didn't even come close last year.

So the Rockets are a top 6 team, even though they didn't make the playoffs last year and barely had the 5th best record the year before, and are entirely reliant upon two injury prone players?

What kind of ignorant SH!T is this? You know EXACTLY why the Rockets had no chance to make the playoffs last year. Dont even start with this bogus argument. You're only making a fool of yourself.

[DeuceWallaces]

No, you are, believing T-Mac will be healthy.

He has a chronic bad back, has never played a full season, and is getting older.

[JSub]

Haha, please tell me you're joking.

Rockets would have to make the playoffs to be a top 8 team. And they didn't even come close last year.

So the Rockets are a top 6 team, even though they didn't make the playoffs last year and barely had the 5th best record the year before, and are entirely reliant upon two injury prone players?

Why do you avoid justifying this God-forsakenly stupid statement you just made?

[lakers-city]

what happened when they made the playoffs last year ? yeah, they droped a lead and lost to the mavericks.

[DeuceWallaces]

Justify what? They were a 12th seed. That's not even close in my book.

You can't sit here and ignore injuries while making bold statements about your team.

An inherent part of your team are T-Mac and Yao's injuries. So don't go around spoutin off like it's a given they'll be healthy and make the playoffs, because all I have to do is look to last year and prove you wrong. Not to mention T-Mac's extensive injury history before even joining the Rockets.

[04mzwach]

http://www.shamsports.com/images/amusing/dirktwat3.jpg
t-mac owns dirk...

[raiderfan19]

http://www.shamsports.com/images/amusing/dirktwat3.jpg
t-mac owns dirk...
The Mavs own the rockets....

[telephone]

Who is better now?

[Sneakerpro]

TMAC at his best has been better than Dirk BUT now it's ain't even close IMO.

The only players that you can say are better than Dirk are Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, and Wade.

People keep saying TMAC shut Dirk down in the playoffs. I don't understand this because if you actually watched that series you would see that every time Dirk put it on the floor they double teamed him. The Rockets defensive plan was to make someone else beat them and Jason Terry did.

I don't understand how you can use a series to hype up a player when the player was up 2-0 on going home against a team with a rookie head coach, lost the series, and lost the by the biggest margin in Game 7 history.

[R.I.P.]

TMAC at his best has been better than Dirk BUT now it's ain't even close IMO.

The only players that you can say are better than Dirk are Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, and Wade.

There is no player, that you can say is definately better than Nowitzki.

[geeWiz15]

haven't seen this topic before today.

anyway, back when Tmac was healthy he was superior to Dirk but right now and for the future? Dirk easily.

[Brunch@Five]

The only players that you can say are better than Dirk are Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, and Wade.

right now, I'd take neither Kobe nor Wade over Nowitzki. Though currently, I'd say those 5 (Kobe, Dirk, TD, Bron, wade) plus KG are tier one players, with Yao catching up.

[EricForman]

Who is better now?


HAHAHA you went through the trouble of probably going through 10, 15 pages just to bump this thread for the purpose of rubbing it in Tmac fans face.

Well, honestly, Dirk was already better than Tmac last year before this season started, so why do it now?

Don't even get me started on their respective careers, one guy couldn't get out of the first round and has been on three or four lottery teams while another has had several playoff runs with totally different supporting casts. Now I'll admit, Dirk has had more help and talent, but to do it so many years and come up huge like he did in the playoffs last year, that puts him above Tmac.

(and to people bringing up Dirk choking in the finals, please stop being ignorant, the guy played pantheon ball all playoffs and was still pretty good in the finals, he just wasn't as good as DWade, that doesn't = "choking". )

I'm also no fan of Dirk, considering I laugh at Mavs fans who put him on Duncan level, but hey, facts are facts, Dirk has been better than Tmac since last year already, and their careers ain't even close, you're talking about one career filled with playoff runs and a possible ring down the line vs a guy who's best playoff moment was dunking on Shawn Bradley.

[Targus]

Dirk.

[telephone]

HAHAHA you went through the trouble of probably going through 10, 15 pages just to bump this thread for the purpose of rubbing it in Tmac fans face.

Actually no, i just clicked on "replies" and this thread was on the first page due to post count. kthx owned.

[dirkdiggler41]

The guy who shut down Dirk was Bowen. That is saying something. That playoff year was bad for Dirk. He learned like Kobe once did and stepped up the next playoff and made the finals. At the same time T-mac was watching TNT with a bad back

[kentatm]

Dirk has had the luxury of regularly being surrounded by a very talented roster, and Tracy generally hasn't at all.

all i have to say is put switch Dirk and TMac right now and the Rocketts win the title no problem.

Yao next to Dirk? title town man!

[04mzwach]

Why would you compare these two players? WTF?

[JSub]

all i have to say is put switch Dirk and TMac right now and the Rocketts win the title no problem.

Yao next to Dirk? title town man!

You put Yao in Dallas and thats a guaranteed championship, even without Dirk. The Mavs are one of the deepest squads in the league with or without Dirk. A dominant center is a more valued commodity than a tall softy who shoots jumpers.

[lakers-city]

i agree, yao would give the mavericks the down-low dominance they lack, while rebounding, blocking shots, intimidating, etc, the dallas mavericks are a VERY deep team.

[dirkdiggler41]

Yes, mavericks got a better team then the rockets, but it is not like it is a huge cap.
Roleplayers more or less
Howard=Battier
harris=alston
Bench
stackhouse=Bonzi W

Those players are the players who got a really impact on the team else from Dirk, Terry, Tracy and Yao

[FabCasablancas]

You put Yao in Dallas and thats a guaranteed championship, even without Dirk. The Mavs are one of the deepest squads in the league with or without Dirk. A dominant center is a more valued commodity than a tall softy who shoots jumpers.


Yeah.. the Mavs are so deep they couldn't win their first 4 games untril dirk started playing at an MVP level scoring 30 points a game again.. haha And Dirk waasn't playing bad before either. It literally takes Dirk to play at an MVP level just to win a game. And it took him playing at the highest level in the league to beat the Spurs the other night.. by one point.

They set a Mavs record in consecutive games lost to start the season without Dirk playing like the best player in the league.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

i used to think that laker fans were the most delusional. after this thread that title now goes to the rockets fans.

edit: but when you factor in fans like fab/hawker/joewait, dallas fans are right behind the rocket fans.

[Jailblazers7]

right now its obviously dirk>>>tmac

[kobedaman24]

right now its obviously dirk>>>tmac
Yup nothing can beat a 7'0 3 point shooting PF.

[telephone]

thanks superman.

[Sneakerpro]

There is no player, that you can say is definately better than Nowitzki.

Honestly right now I think I really do think he is the best player in the NBA but I'm a Mavs fan so I'm biased.

[mhsbasketball]

it will be a debate if TMac can get out of the 1st round and if he can shoot over 45 percent.

[EricForman]

i used to think that laker fans were the most delusional. after this thread that title now goes to the rockets fans.

edit: but when you factor in fans like fab/hawker/joewait, dallas fans are right behind the rocket fans.


dude dallas fans were the worse over the playoffs.

first, during first round, they were talking smack, since the Mavs were the only team to dominate the first round while seemingly every other team had a competitive series

then, Mavs fans got stupid and got upset at Michael Finley because he was playing well for the Spurs, they claimed he must have slacked off in his Dallas days because "had never played this good with us". They claimed Jason Terry, in his second season with the Mavs are already more popular and have done more for the franchise than Finley ever did. Just total disrespect and ignorance by supposed true "Dallas fans". Then when Jason Terry pulled a moronic move by punching Finley, the Mavs fans blamed Finley, they got upset at Finley and called him names, all because he got punched, as if there was something Finley could have done to prevent that, and somehow, Jason Terry escapes all blames and becomes victim of David Stern, if Finley was White, I bet the MAvs fans would have even pulled the race card.

then, the Mavs fans argue that Dirk is ON Duncan's level career wise. I had to bring up all of Duncan's accomplishments and how he's already a top 15 player for those guys to get reasonable and say "well, Dirk is on Duncan level right now". Then people start bashing Duncan saying he was overrated and he wasn't a top 10 player in the league because he only averaged 18 points per game.

during the Spurs/Mavs series, the Mavs got some of most one sided call I can remember, such as at the end of game 4, when Dirk drove to the hoop, tried to create space by pushing off his with his off arm, all Bowen did was stick out his arm to block the shove, and the refs called a foul on Bowen, giving Dirk two free throws to tie the game with like 4 seconds left in the game. The contact occured when Dirk had just started his move, it did not affect his shot, it didn't affect anything, throw in the fact that Dirk initiated the contact and it's ridiculous for the refs to make that call against the Spurs in a game of that magnitude.

The Mavs fans then got defensive when just about every non Mavs fans, including TV sports analyst talking about what a horrible call that was, they bought up how Duncan shot more free throws than Dirk, although Duncan's game tends to draw more free throws because Dirk is a jump shooter.

In the finals, Stackhouse runs full speed at Shaq and shoves him in midair , if Shaq wasn't 300 pounds, if it was a normal person, he woulda flipped upside down and landed on his neck. But Mavs fans got upset because the league decided to suspend Stackhouse for that.

After the Mavs go up 2-0, the Mavs fans brag nonstop, claiming it would be a sweep, total cockiness on this board.

Then game 3 happened "It's only only one game, we'll still take this in 5"

then game 4 happened "no biggie they just did what they had to do, defend homecourt"

then game 5 happened ........ less talking....

then game 6 happened ....... total silence, followed by :cry:

[rezznor]

this year and last, no question dirk > tmac

[braden.]

Has anybody actually seen Tracy McGrady play this year?

[raiderfan19]

dude dallas fans were the worse over the playoffs.

first, during first round, they were talking smack, since the Mavs were the only team to dominate the first round while seemingly every other team had a competitive series

then, Mavs fans got stupid and got upset at Michael Finley because he was playing well for the Spurs, they claimed he must have slacked off in his Dallas days because "had never played this good with us". They claimed Jason Terry, in his second season with the Mavs are already more popular and have done more for the franchise than Finley ever did. Just total disrespect and ignorance by supposed true "Dallas fans". Then when Jason Terry pulled a moronic move by punching Finley, the Mavs fans blamed Finley, they got upset at Finley and called him names, all because he got punched, as if there was something Finley could have done to prevent that, and somehow, Jason Terry escapes all blames and becomes victim of David Stern, if Finley was White, I bet the MAvs fans would have even pulled the race card.

then, the Mavs fans argue that Dirk is ON Duncan's level career wise. I had to bring up all of Duncan's accomplishments and how he's already a top 15 player for those guys to get reasonable and say "well, Dirk is on Duncan level right now". Then people start bashing Duncan saying he was overrated and he wasn't a top 10 player in the league because he only averaged 18 points per game.

during the Spurs/Mavs series, the Mavs got some of most one sided call I can remember, such as at the end of game 4, when Dirk drove to the hoop, tried to create space by pushing off his with his off arm, all Bowen did was stick out his arm to block the shove, and the refs called a foul on Bowen, giving Dirk two free throws to tie the game with like 4 seconds left in the game. The contact occured when Dirk had just started his move, it did not affect his shot, it didn't affect anything, throw in the fact that Dirk initiated the contact and it's ridiculous for the refs to make that call against the Spurs in a game of that magnitude.

The Mavs fans then got defensive when just about every non Mavs fans, including TV sports analyst talking about what a horrible call that was, they bought up how Duncan shot more free throws than Dirk, although Duncan's game tends to draw more free throws because Dirk is a jump shooter.

In the finals, Stackhouse runs full speed at Shaq and shoves him in midair , if Shaq wasn't 300 pounds, if it was a normal person, he woulda flipped upside down and landed on his neck. But Mavs fans got upset because the league decided to suspend Stackhouse for that.

After the Mavs go up 2-0, the Mavs fans brag nonstop, claiming it would be a sweep, total cockiness on this board.

Then game 3 happened "It's only only one game, we'll still take this in 5"

then game 4 happened "no biggie they just did what they had to do, defend homecourt"

then game 5 happened ........ less talking....

then game 6 happened ....... total silence, followed by :cry:
If you are really moronic enough to believe that the Spurs series had one sided officiating helping the mavs I question how it is that you are smart enough to remember to breath.

[Silent Mav]

You put Yao in Dallas and thats a guaranteed championship, even without Dirk. The Mavs are one of the deepest squads in the league with or without Dirk. A dominant center is a more valued commodity than a tall softy who shoots jumpers.

I'll disagree on this. While Yao is playing great, he needs a player of Dirk or Tmac's cailber to draw sufficient enough attention from the other team. At least in this point of his career. While the Mavs other players aren't slouches, they aren't enough to do this. And if you think Dirk is still a softy who shoots jumpers Jsub, you lost more brain cells than you care to admit overseas.

And hawker, telephone whatever...there was no need to bring this thread back up

[EricForman]

If you are really moronic enough to believe that the Spurs series had one sided officiating helping the mavs I question how it is that you are smart enough to remember to breath.


nice way to counter without actually disputing anything i wrote, clown.

and i didn't write any conspiracy theory, i just wrote that ONE call on Bruce Bowen was ridiculous and any non Mavs fans will probably agree, from the replay angle it's just absolutely horrible call, Dirk stuck out the arm to push off, all Bowen did was try to push Dirk's arm out of the way and that's a call for the game winning free throws giving the Mavs a 3-1 lead. In one of nthe closest series in years, the Mavs received two of these calls, the other one was Tim Duncan's sixth foul in game 3, when Dirk drove at Duncan, Duncan basically was back peddaling but Dirk stepped on Duncan's foot and Duncan fouled out due to that. this is Tim Freaking Duncan, a top 15 player all time, fouling out becaue he was backing up and Dirk ran into him. You think Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Bird would ever foul out like that? I don't think so.

[joewait]

nice way to counter without actually disputing anything i wrote, clown.

and i didn't write any conspiracy theory, i just wrote that ONE call on Bruce Bowen was ridiculous and any non Mavs fans will probably agree, from the replay angle it's just absolutely horrible call, Dirk stuck out the arm to push off, all Bowen did was try to push Dirk's arm out of the way and that's a call for the game winning free throws giving the Mavs a 3-1 lead. In one of nthe closest series in years, the Mavs received two of these calls, the other one was Tim Duncan's sixth foul in game 3, when Dirk drove at Duncan, Duncan basically was back peddaling but Dirk stepped on Duncan's foot and Duncan fouled out due to that. this is Tim Freaking Duncan, a top 15 player all time, fouling out becaue he was backing up and Dirk ran into him. You think Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Bird would ever foul out like that? I don't think so.

duncan was in the restricted area so thats an automatic foul. I always find it hilarious how people ignore the absurd calls Duncan got all series, especially in games 1 and 7, where the refs were basically trying to hand the series to Spurs. And anyways, that call in game 4, eithe r way, dirk likely would have made that shot anyways.

[raiderfan19]

nice way to counter without actually disputing anything i wrote, clown.

and i didn't write any conspiracy theory, i just wrote that ONE call on Bruce Bowen was ridiculous and any non Mavs fans will probably agree, from the replay angle it's just absolutely horrible call, Dirk stuck out the arm to push off, all Bowen did was try to push Dirk's arm out of the way and that's a call for the game winning free throws giving the Mavs a 3-1 lead. In one of nthe closest series in years, the Mavs received two of these calls, the other one was Tim Duncan's sixth foul in game 3, when Dirk drove at Duncan, Duncan basically was back peddaling but Dirk stepped on Duncan's foot and Duncan fouled out due to that. this is Tim Freaking Duncan, a top 15 player all time, fouling out becaue he was backing up and Dirk ran into him. You think Magic, Kobe, Jordan, Bird would ever foul out like that? I don't think so.
On the duncan play, that was a foul. Its not even remotely questionable if it was a foul. Tripping even if unintentional is a foul and Duncan was in the restricted area. As for calls, Duncan got ridiculous calls all series. I have maintained all summer that he got as many if not more calls in that series as wade got in the finals.

Were there a couple of calls that went the mavs way? Of course. Did they get as many as the spurs? No. The mavs were the better team and they won. The officiating was damn sure not a reason why.

[TiMavericks21]

i agree, yao would give the mavericks the down-low dominance they lack, while rebounding, blocking shots, intimidating, etc, the dallas mavericks are a VERY deep team.

Yao would give EVERY TEAM the down-low dominance they lack? Who else has a DOMINANT Center(besides Houston and when healthy, Miami)? The Mavericks don't need down-low dominance. They are fine with their duo of Damp/Diop. They have more than enough capable scorers. They don't need 20ppg coming from the center postion, they need high numbers in rebounding and blocks, which is what they get from the Damp/Diop tandem.

[TiMavericks21]

HAHAHA you went through the trouble of probably going through 10, 15 pages just to bump this thread for the purpose of rubbing it in Tmac fans face.

Well, honestly, Dirk was already better than Tmac last year before this season started, so why do it now?

Don't even get me started on their respective careers, one guy couldn't get out of the first round and has been on three or four lottery teams while another has had several playoff runs with totally different supporting casts. Now I'll admit, Dirk has had more help and talent, but to do it so many years and come up huge like he did in the playoffs last year, that puts him above Tmac.

(and to people bringing up Dirk choking in the finals, please stop being ignorant, the guy played pantheon ball all playoffs and was still pretty good in the finals, he just wasn't as good as DWade, that doesn't = "choking". )

I'm also no fan of Dirk, considering I laugh at Mavs fans who put him on Duncan level, but hey, facts are facts, Dirk has been better than Tmac since last year already, and their careers ain't even close, you're talking about one career filled with playoff runs and a possible ring down the line vs a guy who's best playoff moment was dunking on Shawn Bradley.

I'm not a moron homer who says that Dirk is easily better than Duncan, because as much as I hate him, I still think Duncan is probably the best PF to ever play the game. However, I don't see how you can laugh when people say he's on Duncan's level. Yes, Duncan has 3 rings, so I am not putting the Mavericks on the Spurs level. However, it is wrong to say Dirk's not on Duncan's level.

[FabCasablancas]

If Diirk was black there would be zero question as to whether Dirk is on Duncan's level.

The only reason Dirk is so underrated is because of his race.

[telephone]

haha fab strikes again.

[FabCasablancas]

There's a new Tmacs alias.. write it down!

[JSub]

If Diirk was black there would be zero question as to whether Dirk is on Duncan's level.

The only reason Dirk is so underrated is because of his race.

Does the same apply to Yao Ming?

[EricForman]

If Diirk was black there would be zero question as to whether Dirk is on Duncan's level.

The only reason Dirk is so underrated is because of his race.

Fab I'm a Strokes fan myself but damn you're just flat out wrong.

Now I respect Dirk, he's clearly a top 5 player and his career is heads and shoulders above Tmacs. But how the hell is he on Duncan level? Three rings, three finals MVP, won 50+ games every year of his career, with the exception of his rookie year, his team is a "legit contender" every year in the league, played with two totally different supporting casts and still won, never had nearly as talented a squad as what Dirk used to have.

How is Dirk on his level? PLEASE man. Like i said before, Dirk to Duncan is like David Robinson to Hakeem, Ray Allen to Kobe, Melo to Lebron, etc. One level lower.... always. Really, at this point it's too late for dirk to ever catch up, unless he goes on some miraculous run to end his career like winning three straight or something.

[EricForman]

Yes, Duncan has 3 rings, so I am not putting the Mavericks on the Spurs level. However, it is wrong to say Dirk's not on Duncan's level.


Unlike Kobe, Duncan can actually use "I have three rings" as reasoning to prove his superiority over another player.

Because Duncan was the best player, by far, on all three championship teams. Duncan also won them with a less than stellar cast, I'm tired of the BS that Duncan has always had stacked teams, he's NEVER had a stacked team until last year, actually, he's always had solid role players on his team, but if not for Duncan's game making everyone else better, his cast of "solid players" wouldn't have won with Kobe, or Tmac, or KG leading it. In 03 especially, duncan won with a rookie Manu, soph Tony Parker, both still raw as hell, an insane Stephen Jackson and a way past his prime DRob.

How does that not put him above Dirk? Dirk has had more talent and have had significantly less playoff success, Duncan is already almost undoubtedly a top 20 player, while Dirk is still arguable for top 50, (I think he is top 50, but really, a case can made against it) Really, How does that not put Duncan a full level ahead of Dirk??????

[SupermanOnSteroids]

they're both completly different types of players who both play the same position at an insanely high level. duncan is a better player over the course of the carreer. its a lot like comparing TMac with Dirk. TMac might be the better 1 on 1 player out of the two, but when you play a team game, you take Dirk over Tmac. Same with Duncan vs Dirk. Dirk might be the better player on a 1 on 1 game between the two right now (not in the past) but when you play a team game, you still take Duncan over Dirk. Duncan just fits the more sucessful system a lot better than Dirk. Dirk is suited to play the Suns type uptempo game, and in today's NBA, that style of play has yet to get further than the WCF. Dallas pretty much had to duplicate that Spurs system to some extent to get to the finals last year. They just didn't have that rock in the middle that makes it work so well.

[miles berg]

Dirk v KG tonight, I always have a good time watching these two go at it.

[FabCasablancas]

Does the same apply to Yao Ming?

Somewhat.. but at the same time he is overrated because he is one of the few post players and centers in the league today and is a giant. I would say that Yao is overrated conisdering how little he has done in the NBA.. especialyl comapred to Dirk.

[FabCasablancas]

Fab I'm a Strokes fan myself but damn you're just flat out wrong.

Now I respect Dirk, he's clearly a top 5 player and his career is heads and shoulders above Tmacs. But how the hell is he on Duncan level? Three rings, three finals MVP, won 50+ games every year of his career, with the exception of his rookie year, his team is a "legit contender" every year in the league, played with two totally different supporting casts and still won, never had nearly as talented a squad as what Dirk used to have.

How is Dirk on his level? PLEASE man. Like i said before, Dirk to Duncan is like David Robinson to Hakeem, Ray Allen to Kobe, Melo to Lebron, etc. One level lower.... always. Really, at this point it's too late for dirk to ever catch up, unless he goes on some miraculous run to end his career like winning three straight or something.

First of all.. I was talking about right now. Duncan has declined as of late compared to where he was in the past. I think this is because he no longer has Robinson around. But for whatever rreason he has declined. KG hasn't won anything but most people considered him on Duncan's level before his teams collapse of late. Even without winning. If Dirk or KG played with David Robinson I think they would be the ones with 3 championshps rather than Duncan. Duncan was heavily overrated coming into the league playing with Drob like Kobe and Wade was/is heavily overrated playing with Shaq.