Kobe tied MJ for the most career game winning shots at 26

[JJ81]

NBA.com's list of MJ's game winners is at 25 but it doesn't include his game winner against the Suns in 2002 when he was playing for the Wizards so thats 26 total.

After tonights game against the Pacers Kobe's got 26. Kobe should have 27 but the one against the Celtics in (2002) when the ball was clearly out of his hands was waived off so Kobe's official total is 26.

MJ's totals: http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

Kobe's totals: http://www.dolem.com/kobe_game_winners.htm

Notice Michael Jordan's totals includes FTs, Kobe's doesnt.

[Godfather]

How many of those are in the NBA Finals?

[west]

How many of those are in the NBA Finals?
:applause:

[whitebear]

and your point is?

[Jacks3]

How many of those are in the NBA Finals?
Don't know about GW but Kobe has hit plenty of clutch shots in the Finals.
Off the top of my head...Game 4 2000, Game 3 2002, Game 5 2008, Game 3 2008..

[Godfather]

Don't know about GW but Kobe has hit plenty of clutch shots in the Finals.
Off the top of my head...Game 4 2000, Game 3 2002, Game 5 2008, Game 3 2008..

I don't want to bother making a Jordan list. Anyone with the time and effort want to make one?

I will rep...



Still this is a great accomplishment by Kobe. He is very clutch in the regular season and western conference playoffs.

[juju151111]

Good work Kobe, but i should mention Mj has the better % on GW.

[Shepseskaf]

Still this is a great accomplishment by Kobe. He is very clutch in the regular season and western conference playoffs.
Nice back-handed compliment.

There's a good list of Jordan game-winning shots at:

http://www.23jordan.com/shots1.htm

It looks to be pretty complete.

[JJ81]

How many of those are in the NBA Finals?

Click the links and look for yourself.

[Godfather]

Click the links and look for yourself.

What is it 4 to 0??

[statman32]

The list you posted is not even close to being accurate. This is getting sad. :roll:

[JJ81]

The list you posted is not even close to being accurate. This is getting sad. :roll:

Are you going to elaborate?

[JJ81]

What is it 4 to 0??

Game 4 2000 finals... you clearly didn't click the link because you would have seen that that was the second on the list.


Kobe has hit plenty of clutch shots in the Finals.
Off the top of my head...Game 4 2000, Game 3 2002, Game 5 2008, Game 3 2008

[plowking]

Jordan has way more gamewinner then that, no?

[Godfather]

Game 4 2000 finals... you clearly didn't click the link because you would have seen that that was the second on the list.

Didn't see that 4 to 1...

This Jordan link is also missing a significant amount of info compared to Kobe's

[statman32]

Because Kobes list count everything in the last minute while MJs list doesnt count anything above 24 seconds. I doubt that Mj didnt hit any "game winners" from a minute to 24 sec.

ALso missed two more in a Wizards uniform.

[Jacks3]

One of MJ's was him missing the first and hitting the second free throw giving the Bulls a 1 point lead, with time on the clock, which I don't think is a gamewinner.
Some of those on Kobe's list are kind of dubious. Even if you want to count game winners at 30+ secs (one was at 55 secs), the author counts go-ahead shots, #3 wasn't a game winner at all, and one was a 4-pt win (I guess he hit a 4 pointer). Clutch shot does not necessarily = game winner.
Have to set a criteria here first

[Godfather]

Because Kobes list count everything in the last minute while MJs list doesnt count anything above 24 seconds. I doubt that Mj didnt hit any "game winners" from a minute to 24 sec.

ALso missed two more in a Wizards uniform.

The Jordan list is horribly organized. I suggest the OP finds a better source and change this thread title.

[xcesswee]

Uh ya that list from MJs isn't organized and i don't think has all of his clutch shots. Where's his one against the lakers to send it into overtime in the finals?

[jrong]

NBA.com's list of MJ's game winners is at 25 but it doesn't include his game winner against the Suns in 2002 when he was playing for the Wizards so thats 26 total.

After tonights game against the Pacers Kobe's got 26. Kobe should have 27 but the one against the Celtics in (2002) when the ball was clearly out of his hands was waived off so Kobe's official total is 26.

MJ's totals: http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

Kobe's totals: http://www.dolem.com/kobe_game_winners.htm

Notice Michael Jordan's totals includes FTs, Kobe's doesnt.

Jordan had three gamewinners during his comeback tour with the Wizards:

Suns. Hawks. Cavs.

[xcesswee]

Also, get better sources. Ones coming from a lakers fans and another from a bulls fan, which means they prob both put different criterias in what they considered clutch shots

[JJ81]

I didn't make these lists.

Can't you just accept it as an impressive achievement?:wtf: Always have to pick holes in anything good Kobe does.:confusedshrug:

[Psileas]

Kobe tied MJ for the most career game winning shots at 26

First of all, not all of Kobe's 26 game-winning shots were real game-winners. A few of them were just crucial baskets which put his team ahead for good. Second, no-one has ever said that 26 is the all-time leading number. How many did Bird have? Reggie? Jerry West? As long as no-one has provided the all-time data, this will remain an extremely unofficial record.


How many of those are in the NBA Finals?

Poor attempt to hate. Larry Bird has zero, fyi.

[Godfather]

I didn't make these lists.

Can't you just accept it as an impressive achievement?:wtf: Always have to pick holes in anything good Kobe does.:confusedshrug:

You are an idiot...One of the articles is from 2000 (Jordan's) and the other is up to date.

Maybe you just can't accept Jordan>Kobe and have to instead bring in bull **** posts :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

I don't want to bother making a Jordan list. Anyone with the time and effort want to make one?

I will rep...



Still this is a great accomplishment by Kobe. He is very clutch in the regular season and western conference playoffs.
lol what about the nba finals

[sunsfan1357]

Uh ya that list from MJs isn't organized and i don't think has all of his clutch shots. Where's his one against the lakers to send it into overtime in the finals?

Well then that would defeat the purpose of calling it a GAMEwinner, correct?

[xcesswee]

I didn't make these lists.

Can't you just accept it as an impressive achievement?:wtf: Always have to pick holes in anything good Kobe does.:confusedshrug:

I never tried to degrade Kobe, or say LOL KOBE<MJ. I Just said if you're going to bring stats and facts to the table at least get reliable sources. Other than that yes we know kobe is excellent in clutch situations.

[Riker]

Kobe homers doing some hard investigations trying to match up in at least one aspect to the Greatest There Is, Greatest That Ever Will Be

You guys should get at least rewarded for your persistence...

[JJ81]

You are an idiot...One of the articles is from 2000 (Jordan's) and the other is up to date.

Maybe you just can't accept Jordan>Kobe and have to instead bring in bull **** posts :confusedshrug:

When did I say that Jordan wasn't better than Kobe? You've jumped to that conclusion by yourself.

[JJ81]

Well then that would defeat the purpose of calling it a GAMEwinner, correct?

Exactly :oldlol:

[JJ81]

By the end of Kobe's career he will have had more game winning shots than Jordan.

[JordanL]

I didn't make these lists.

Can't you just accept it as an impressive achievement?:wtf: Always have to pick holes in anything good Kobe does.:confusedshrug:

Because you're trying to make the argument that Kobe is the better player than MJ. Kobe isn't half the player MJ was. They're not even in the same league.

[Kobe24]

MJ groupies are so pathetic. Just admit when another player surpasses or ties him, look at that list, MJ's game winners consists of free throws. Kind of lame. Why bring up the finals? Move on and admit that Kobe will surpass him soon enough. He retired, get off his d!ck you lames.

[Kblaze8855]

There was a list showing Kobe with 27 like 3 years ago. And one with Jordan in the low 30s. I remember Loki and I remembering several not on the list then(some of them pretty well known) and wondering how many they forgot.


First of all, not all of Kobe's 26 game-winning shots were real game-winners. A few of them were just crucial baskets which put his team ahead for good. Second, no-one has ever said that 26 is the all-time leading number. How many did Bird have? Reggie? Jerry West? As long as no-one has provided the all-time data, this will remain an extremely unofficial record.

I clearly remember in the 98 playoffs after Reggie made that 3 to win it vs the Bulls they said it was his 14th go ahead shot with a minute or less to go...that season. Not exactly 14th game winner but Reggie was making clutch shots every week or two for 18 years. Id be suprised if he didnt have at least 20 game winners.

[xcesswee]

MJ groupies are so pathetic. Just admit when another player surpasses or ties him, look at that list, MJ's game winners consists of free throws. Kind of lame. Why bring up the finals? Move on and admit that Kobe will surpass him soon enough. He retired, get off his d!ck you lames.

Kobe groupies are pathetic. Always trying to make Kobe into a player he is not. Just accept him for who he is, one of NBA's greatest players. He's not there on Birds, JOrdans, Shaq's, or Magic's level just yet. Like i said again, if you're going to bring NUMBERS and FACTS to the table at least USE a reliable source.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Because you're trying to make the argument that Kobe is the better player than MJ. Kobe isn't half the player MJ was. They're not even in the same league.

so the entire league is trash?

[Noob Saibot]

This can't be another thread that says Kobe>MJ. MJ's game winners are way more memorable than Kobe's i bet.

[Riker]

It's this very image of drones that repel Kobe to general public.

If only you knew to appreciate your favorite player, instead you're just using him for compensating your Jordan hatred, pathetic...

[DuMa]

impressive statistic. it says alot about Kobe's ability to finish in the clutch. He's always amazed me on that particular feat of his

[EricForman]

maybe my criteria is too strict, but my definition, or at least when i think of game winners, i think of fisher on spurs or jordan over ehlo.

but apparently game winners are loosely defined.

something like this scenario:

Player A scores with the game tied with 40 seconds to go to put Team A up 2.
Team B then misses a shot.
Team A then misses a shot again.
Team B then turns the ball over. intentionally fouls. clock runs out.

Guess Player A's shot would be called a game winner, but I would never think of it as such.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

maybe my criteria is too strict, but my definition, or at least when i think of game winners, i think of fisher on spurs or jordan over ehlo.

but apparently game winners are loosely defined.

something like this scenario:

Player A scores with the game tied with 40 seconds to go to put Team A up 2.
Team B then misses a shot.
Team A then misses a shot again.
Team B then turns the ball over. intentionally fouls. clock runs out.

Guess Player A's shot would be called a game winner, but I would never think of it as such.

so what would u call it?

[bladefd]

Because you're trying to make the argument that Kobe is the better player than MJ. Kobe isn't half the player MJ was. They're not even in the same league.

Got a question for you. Who else would you put in MJ's league (or same breath as MJ) if you don't put Kobe in there?

I am not asking you to admit that Kobe is better than Jordan because he clearly isn't, but I honestly believe that Kobe has to be put in the same breath as Jordan as other top few perimeter players (this category does NOT include centers and PF's). I would put these perimeter players in the same breath as Jordan: Bird, Magic, Oscar, Kobe, Isiah, Stockton (not in any kind of order). LeBron/Wade will probably be in there eventually as well. Still, at this point Kobe is the 2nd best SG to play in nba history after Jordan.

BTW - I think that gamewinners should include shots ONLY in the last 10 second frame, NOT more than that. Freethrows should not be included since the clock is not running(hence the FREE-throws) and shots BEFORE the last 10 seconds should count as clutch but NOT gamewinners. In my book, there is a difference between hitting really clutch shots and hitting game winners, and this is how I would define a gamewinner as in my book.

[Psileas]

Originally Posted by EricForman
maybe my criteria is too strict, but my definition, or at least when i think of game winners, i think of fisher on spurs or jordan over ehlo.

but apparently game winners are loosely defined.

something like this scenario:

Player A scores with the game tied with 40 seconds to go to put Team A up 2.
Team B then misses a shot.
Team A then misses a shot again.
Team B then turns the ball over. intentionally fouls. clock runs out.

Guess Player A's shot would be called a game winner, but I would never think of it as such.

My personal definition of a winning shot is when someone scores the point to give the final lead to his team and the score doesn't change after that (the only exception is if someone has to sink only 1 or 2 free throws to win it and he sinks 2 or 3-all in the same possession, of course). It doesn't have to be a buzzer-beater or within the X final seconds. So, in this example, if the player of Team A misses his final free throws, I'd still count the last basket as a winning one. If he made one, I wouldn't.

[JJ81]

Because you're trying to make the argument that Kobe is the better player than MJ. Kobe isn't half the player MJ was. They're not even in the same league.

When did I say that Kobe was a better player than Jordan?

Why do you have to get all defensive everytime Kobe does anything good?

[JJ81]

impressive statistic. it says alot about Kobe's ability to finish in the clutch. He's always amazed me on that particular feat of his

:cheers: I'm glad some people can accept it for what it is and not take it as an attack on MJ.

[OldSchoolBBall]

NBA.com's list of MJ's game winners is at 25 but it doesn't include his game winner against the Suns in 2002 when he was playing for the Wizards so thats 26 total.

After tonights game against the Pacers Kobe's got 26. Kobe should have 27 but the one against the Celtics in (2002) when the ball was clearly out of his hands was waived off so Kobe's official total is 26.

MJ's totals: http://www.nba.com/jordan/game_winners.html

Kobe's totals: http://www.dolem.com/kobe_game_winners.htm

Notice Michael Jordan's totals includes FTs, Kobe's doesnt.

Actually, Jordan had 3 game winners as a Wizard: vs. Phoenix, NY, and Cleveland. So that's 28. Also note that the actual number is 33 as seen in the link posted below. But even this is incomplete (see below).

Secondly, they use different criteria for "game winners" for modern guys like Kobe/Melo than they did for Jordan. Someone once posted Kobe's game-winners with links to videos of all of them, and based on the game situation, the shots he hit never used to be counted as game winners in Jordan's day. They only counted walk-off shots as game-winners on Jordan's list. But if you use the same criteria that they use for Kobe/Melo etc., Jordan has many more "game winning" shots than what's listed (at least 6-8 that I know of, and I've hardly seen every Jordan game). One such example is the Jazz flu game 3-pointer he hit at the end of the game to put them up 3 (it was tied when he hit it). Utah then scored a quick 2, but that was it and Chicago won by 1 point. Things like that in those contexts are counted as game-winners for Kobe, but not for Jordan. Jordan has MANY of those shots. Many.

On top of that, there are shots he's made that were supposed to count as game-winners under the OLD criteria, but which aren't on the list (vs. Cleveland in the '93 playoffs; vs. Orlando; vs. Milwaukee; vs. Clippers his rookie year etc.).


Nice back-handed compliment.

There's a good list of Jordan game-winning shots at:

http://www.23jordan.com/shots1.htm

It looks to be pretty complete.


It's not nearly complete. See above. Also note that that list has 33 shots, not 26 like the OP said. But even that list is far from complete, whether using old criteria and especially using the new criteria they use for modern "game winners."

[OldSchoolBBall]

One of MJ's was him missing the first and hitting the second free throw giving the Bulls a 1 point lead, with time on the clock, which I don't think is a gamewinner.
Some of those on Kobe's list are kind of dubious. Even if you want to count game winners at 30+ secs (one was at 55 secs), the author counts go-ahead shots, #3 wasn't a game winner at all, and one was a 4-pt win (I guess he hit a 4 pointer). Clutch shot does not necessarily = game winner.
Have to set a criteria here first

Yeah, a lot of Kobe's shots (and Melo's and every modern player who they compile the GW lists for) are what used to be called "go ahead shots." That is, it put his team ahead for good even if his team and/or the other team scored after his shot, so long as the other team never tied or regained the lead again. Those never counted as GW shots for Jordan.

There's also the issue of incomplete info. I personally know of 3-4 ACTUAL game-winners by the old criteria that aren't on Jordan's list, and at least half a dozen such "go ahead" shots, of which I mentioned a few above.

[OldSchoolBBall]

By the end of Kobe's career he will have had more game winning shots than Jordan.

And if he does? He'll undoubtedly have played more seasons than Jordan did. What's Kobe's conversion percent on game-winning attempts? Yeah, that's what I thought...

Kobe is clutch, but he's taken (and missed) a ton more "game winning" shots than Jordan did simply because his teams have been involved in lots more close games. If you have lots more opportunities to hit game winning shots, you will do so, even if it's at a relatively poor % (like Kobe's is; I think he;s like 35-38% on GW attempts since 2003 or something).

[OldSchoolBBall]

maybe my criteria is too strict, but my definition, or at least when i think of game winners, i think of fisher on spurs or jordan over ehlo.

but apparently game winners are loosely defined.

something like this scenario:

Player A scores with the game tied with 40 seconds to go to put Team A up 2.
Team B then misses a shot.
Team A then misses a shot again.
Team B then turns the ball over. intentionally fouls. clock runs out.

Guess Player A's shot would be called a game winner, but I would never think of it as such.

These types of shots are counted as game winners for Kobe and other modern players but weren't for Jordan (see above posts). Jordan had a sh!t-ton of these types of shots.

[gts]

Secondly, they use different criteria for "game winners" for modern guys like Kobe/Melo than they did for Jordan. Please show us some type of link..this sounds like you're just making stuff up...lol

edit: 82 games decribes as


Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

[Psileas]

Actually, Jordan had 3 game winners as a Wizard: vs. Phoenix, NY, and Cleveland. So that's 28. Also note that the actual number is 33 as seen in the link posted below. But even this is incomplete (see below).

Actually they must be about 29. In the 1990-92 period they added for a second time some of his '89 baskets.

[JJ81]

And if he does? He'll undoubtedly have played more seasons than Jordan did. What's Kobe's conversion percent on game-winning attempts? Yeah, that's what I thought...

And if he does, he does! That's it. I'm not trying to say anything else. I'm just stating the facts. Why do have to get all defensive whenever someone mentions something that Kobe did? Why can't you just take it for what it is rather than accusing people of saying **** that they weren't even thinking? It's paranoia. Every time someone says that Kobe's done something good, there's always people like you saying "...yeah but he's nothing compared to mj" or "he'll never be mj". Who's talking about that?!


And what do you mean "yeah, that's what I thought", I didn't even reply...


You're pathetic.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Please show us some type of link..this sounds like you're just making stuff up...lol

edit: 82 games decribes as

You do realize that 82games.com are not the ones compiling the Kobe game-winner list, right? Not sure why you're pointing to their criteria...

What link do you need? I just described a perfectly legitimate play of the sort that counts as a game-winner on Kobe's list but not Jordan's: the 3-pointer at the end of the flu game vs, Utah. The video is on youtube. The game was tied and that put Chicago up 3; Utah then scored a quick 2, but then Chicago got a quick dunk the other way to seal the win. All in the last 20 seconds or so. Utah never tied again or took the lead after Jordan's 3. These type of go-ahead baskets are myriad on Kobe's list (and every modern players' list), but aren't on Jordan's. Ditto the other examples I mentioned.

Jordan has both a ton of this type of shot as well as legitimate game-winners under the OLD criteria that were not included on his list. There was a game vs. LAC in his rookie year where he hit a layup to put them up 1 with 30 seconds left, then the Clippers scored, then he hit another layup to win the game. Both of these layups are featured on Jordan highlight videos, actually, but the GW shot is not included on his list. The full game used to be up on YT but they removed it for copyright reasons. This WAS the link to the game video, because I had saved it a couple of years ago for discussions like this:

http://www.youtube.com/browse?&ytsession=kPXcIUuAYcoPaMQxOYEZ9lzeBXaqQ16eJ4MMrCfI J64DRpDtQt9nfsdCyyUJloHRZXeC5qiz9Ql_FEoY802-knmUAxtC9ONS20fHArbQMdDDOyaS08NOc_-5w7vPVo8WwC1H0eC2_qetPErgFrUUrN7wrqHyD5NRbml7Vw9ug jJvvMgcqTHRM0xthvj3PI4qMMfwcnX4liB_Zs_BCNRW-Iph_f0RMCXxNrlzEQCr7luSqrbxmPJNcJCHl0TA8RPd2mEZ_Ll YxaSpRny88k0ry_MoshJRnUu51XffR3_WV6ERMkZTlbLfOufzN oQnhxsl

[gts]

here's a list since the posted link seems broken

12/27/99: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
02/13/00: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the and-1)
05/10/00: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
06/14/00: Lakers 120 - Pacers 118 (NBA Finals, off reb and put back)
11/16/00: Lakers 112 - Kings 110 (OT game-tying 3 pointer for OT, & jumper for win)
02/07/01: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 sec)
01/02/02: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off reb and the jumper)
02/22/02: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater jumper)
03/24/02: Lakers 97 - Kings 96 (fade-away with 36 sec)
05/12/02: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (playoffs, off reb for the put back)
12/06/02: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
04/04/03: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater jumper)
04/06/03: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (final jumper with 28.6 sec)
02/17/04: Lakers 89 - Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
02/19/04: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, fade-away)
03/03/04: Lakers 95 - Rockets 93 (jumper over Yao with 22 sec)
03/21/04: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 sec)
04/14/04: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT game-tying 3-pointer for OT, & g-winning 3-pt buzzer beater)
03/13/05: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (pump fake for the win)
11/02/05: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
12/04/05: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
01/07/06: Lakers 112 - Clippers 109 (game-winning off-the-window shot)
01/12/06: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 sec, & Lebron choking)
04/30/06: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (OT game-tying tear drop for OT, and game-winning jumper)
01/14/08: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
01/09/09: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 sec)


OldSchoolBBall i'm not saying all the shots are game winners... matter of fact if you read in the lakers forum i corrected the op on jordans list... but i just find it funny that you seem to feel the criteria has changed yet kobe's and jordan's careers overlap for several years... did they change the criteria only after jordan retired?

[OldSchoolBBall]

And again, though the margin of victory in most of those is 1-2 points, many of his shots were "go ahead baskets" where he scored to put LA ahead, then the other team scored (either a basket or FT's) without tying or regaining the lead, and then LA scored again (either a basket or FT's) to finish the game. There was a post a long time ago on here that had links to video of every one of these shots, and based on the score when he hit the shot (which doesn't match up with the final score), you can see that this is the case.

[C-Webb4]

I wonder if there's a stat for most career playoff game winners.

[LAShow24]

here's a list since the posted link seems broken

12/27/99: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs)
02/13/00: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT game-winning layup with the and-1)
05/10/00: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (playoffs, jumper over Jason Kidd)
06/14/00: Lakers 120 - Pacers 118 (NBA Finals, off reb and put back)
11/16/00: Lakers 112 - Kings 110 (OT game-tying 3 pointer for OT, & jumper for win)
02/07/01: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper with 2.7 sec)
01/02/02: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off reb and the jumper)
02/22/02: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (first career buzzer-beater jumper)
03/24/02: Lakers 97 - Kings 96 (fade-away with 36 sec)
05/12/02: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (playoffs, off reb for the put back)
12/06/02: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (28-point game comeback, spin-around jumper)
04/04/03: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater jumper)
04/06/03: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (final jumper with 28.6 sec)
02/17/04: Lakers 89 - Blazers 86 (layup and the foul)
02/19/04: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (game after the trial, fade-away)
03/03/04: Lakers 95 - Rockets 93 (jumper over Yao with 22 sec)
03/21/04: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper with 25 sec)
04/14/04: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT game-tying 3-pointer for OT, & g-winning 3-pt buzzer beater)
03/13/05: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (pump fake for the win)
11/02/05: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper after the Kwame brick)
12/04/05: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs)
01/07/06: Lakers 112 - Clippers 109 (game-winning off-the-window shot)
01/12/06: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper against Lebron with 8 sec, & Lebron choking)
04/30/06: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (OT game-tying tear drop for OT, and game-winning jumper)
01/14/08: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT game-winning jumper)
01/09/09: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper against Jarrett Jack with 3 sec)


OldSchoolBBall i'm not saying all the shots are game winners... matter of fact if you read in the lakers forum i corrected the op on jordans list... but i just find it funny that you seem to feel the criteria has changed yet kobe's and jordan's careers overlap for several years... did they change the criteria only after jordan retired?

I remember 82games mentioned Kobe was 7-32 in 3 years in game winning situations. That is not a good % at all.

[OldSchoolBBall]

OldSchoolBBall i'm not saying all the shots are game winners... matter of fact if you read in the lakers forum i corrected the op on jordans list... but i just find it funny that you seem to feel the criteria has changed yet kobe's and jordan's careers overlap for several years... did they change the criteria only after jordan retired?

I'm not sure to be honest with you. All I know is that I know of several games where Jordan hit shots in the exact same contexts and they weren't included on his list. I mentioned some of them above. For instance, Jordan hit a push-shot layup from just inside the FT line off the glass plus the resulting FT in the '92 or '93 playoffs vs. Cleveland to put Chicago up 2, but it's not on the list. The game video is on youtube. If you can explain that, feel free. I have no idea, myself, but I know what I see. Also note that the first shot on Kobe's list is from the 2000 season. You can see the same stuff I'm talking about in Melo's list too.

Also, realize that someone would have actually had to do significant work to compile a Jordan game-winning shots list for his entire career, seeing as how the source material (the game videos) is not readily available. It's not like today where everyone hears about and has access to video instantly thanks to the internet etc.

[gts]

I remember 82games mentioned Kobe was 7-32 in 3 years in game winning situations. That is not a good % at all.82 games has him with 7 between the fall of 2003 and spring of 2006 and htis list shows 13 so clearly whoever made the list is "generous" lol

[OldSchoolBBall]

82 games has him with 7 between the fall of 2003 and spring of 2006 and htis list shows 13 so clearly whoever made the list is "generous" lol

That's partly why I was wondering why you were invoking 82games.com criteria in this discussion, since 82games.com wasn't the one compiling the list. The criteria are different.

[Diesel J]

What's Kobe's conversion percent on game-winning attempts? Yeah, that's what I thought...




The other night on NBA Fastbreak I heard them say that in since 2003 or the last three years ( I forget which one they said), Kobe is 5/33 on game winning attempts with :2 seconds or less to go.

[Diesel J]

I remember 82games mentioned Kobe was 7-32 in 3 years in game winning situations. That is not a good % at all.

This might be the stat I heard the other night on NBA Fastbreak.

[Scott Pippen]

This would be a nice thread if you had actually posted the correct # for each player, never mind the criteria.:applause:

[04mzwach]

All that matters is wins and producing and Jordan does that better than Kobe, so I don't really care about the neat little fact that this post claims.

[gts]

This would be a nice thread if you had actually posted the correct # for each player, never mind the criteria.:applause:
yeah..i actually kinda made this a project this afternoon, you can see kobe;s updated list in the lakers forum, i'm not done yet but working on it

[Jacks3]

Because you're trying to make the argument that Kobe is the better player than MJ. Kobe isn't half the player MJ was. They're not even in the same league.
:roll:

[Scott Pippen]

yeah..i actually kinda made this a project this afternoon, you can see kobe;s updated list in the lakers forum, i'm not done yet but working on it
very nice:applause:

[ShowTime LA]

very nice:applause:
:applause:

[RoseCity07]

If you guys are going to start with the game winners with time left, Brandon Roy might have about 50 of those. He hits whatever clutch shot Portland needs, and the Blazers win a lot of close games.

[AItheAnswer3]

If you guys are going to start with the game winners with time left, Brandon Roy might have about 50 of those. He hits whatever clutch shot Portland needs, and the Blazers win a lot of close games.
:roll: @ this clown bringing Roy/Blazers into every thread.

[EricForman]

If you guys are going to start with the game winners with time left, Brandon Roy might have about 50 of those. He hits whatever clutch shot Portland needs, and the Blazers win a lot of close games.

lol.

roy would have to pass the melo/manu/hedo/nash club before he reaches a discussion with jordan and kobe.

really.

roy doesn't belong here.

[andgar923]

I don't care about totals as much as I care about percentages.

I saw some people post what seems to be a legit percentage on behalf of Kobe. But does anybody have an MJ percentage from a trusted source?

I mean.... lets suppose Kobe does have more.

What's the point if he had 30 more opportunities than MJ?

[JJ81]

All that matters is wins and producing and Jordan does that better than Kobe, so I don't really care about the neat little fact that this post claims.

Then what's the point in posting in here?

[Biddy77]

now if only someone could find a way to compile a list of games that didn't come down to a game winner because Jordan didn't let them get to that point...

[andgar923]

now if only someone could find a way to compile a list of games that didn't come down to a game winner because Jordan didn't let them get to that point...

Uh oh......

*heads for cover*

[Mikaiel]

But does anybody have an MJ percentage from a trusted source?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

According to this he missed 26 gamewinners. I don't know how reliable it is though. I don't even know when it was made. Maybe his Bulls career wasn't over yet.

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

According to this he missed 26 gamewinners. I don't know how reliable it is though. I don't even know when it was made. Maybe his Bulls career wasn't over yet.

But 26 out of how many attempts?

[JJ81]

now if only someone could find a way to compile a list of games that didn't come down to a game winner because Jordan didn't let them get to that point...

Idiot.

[lilojmayo]

Carmelo Anthony will Break Kobe's game winning record, easily IMO.

Melo already has like 8 or so.

Kobe is averaging 2 game winners a year the same with MJ.

Melo is just 24 years old, and could play at a high level until he pretty much wants to since he has fundamentals down.

I c Melo Breaking Kobe's record when it's all said and done.

[lilojmayo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

According to this he missed 26 gamewinners. I don't know how reliable it is though. I don't even know when it was made. Maybe his Bulls career wasn't over yet.

in all offense im pretty sure Kobe has missed way more than 26 game winners or tiers. Kobe has missed like 3 this year alone, back in his earlier years like right now of HS he was a team cancer at the end of games

remember the AIR ball in the 98 or 99 playoffs game 7 against Utah in OT to cost them the game.

that air ball also stands out in my mind.

[Biddy77]

Idiot.

strong angst.

take a few breaths, get a hug, find your happy place.

[lilojmayo]

strong angst.

take a few breaths, get a hug, find your happy place.
:roll: :roll: :roll:


i needed this thing on ISH have gotten to serious, the gimmicks are getting funny but actually not being gimmicks anymore.


Wheres J money when you need him,.

[Biddy77]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


i needed this thing on ISH have gotten to serious, the gimmicks are getting funny but actually not being gimmicks anymore.


Wheres J money when you need him,.

common occurance on internet forums. while they can be a great place for people to share information, opinions, discussion, etc... some people develop unhealthy emotional investments in their online personas.

that usually turns into people equating differing opinions with challenges to their manhood, and that turns into an avalanche of butt-hurt.

can someone photoshop a visual representation of an avalanche of butt-hurt? that would be a big win, i think.

[Diesel J]

I don't care about totals as much as I care about percentages.

I saw some people post what seems to be a legit percentage on behalf of Kobe. But does anybody have an MJ percentage from a trusted source?

I mean.... lets suppose Kobe does have more.

What's the point if he had 30 more opportunities than MJ?

exactly..that's why we know Kobe's conversion rate. I know for sure it's very low lol

[Diesel J]

Carmelo Anthony will Break Kobe's game winning record, easily IMO.

Melo already has like 8 or so.

Kobe is averaging 2 game winners a year the same with MJ.

Melo is just 24 years old, and could play at a high level until he pretty much wants to since he has fundamentals down.

I c Melo Breaking Kobe's record when it's all said and done.


TRavis Outlaw has like 6-10 IMO from what I've seen from last season and this season.

[Psileas]

TRavis Outlaw has like 6-10 IMO from what I've seen from last season and this season.

These numbers depend on the meaning you give to a "game winning shot".

Having already defined my criteria, I have compiled some lists with the game-winners of the last 3 seasons. According to these lists, the only players per year to have more than 1 game-winning basket are:

2007:

Arenas: 4
Eddy Curry: 3
Varejao: 2
Dalonte West: 2
Garnett: 2
Kevin Martin: 2
Bulter: 2
Bosh: 2
Posey: 2
Z.Randolph: 2
Steven Jackson: 2
Hinrich: 2

2008:

Ginobili: 4
LeBron: 3
Turkoglu: 3
Ray Allen: 2
Tr.Outlaw: 2
Gomes: 2
Kevin Martin: 2
Chris Paul: 2
Prince: 2 (1 in the playoffs)

2009 (updated list):

Iverson: 2
Granger: 2
Carter: 2
Ras.Lewis: 2

If somebody thinks I missed someone and can prove so, I'll hear.

[Diesel J]

These numbers depend on the meaning you give to a "game winning shot".

Having already defined my criteria, I have compiled some lists with the game-winners of the last 3 seasons. According to these lists, the only players per year to have more than 1 game-winning basket are:

2007:

Arenas: 4
Eddy Curry: 3
Varejao: 2
Dalonte West: 2
Garnett: 2
Kevin Martin: 2
Bulter: 2
Bosh: 2
Posey: 2
Z.Randolph: 2
Steven Jackson: 2
Hinrich: 2

2008:

Ginobili: 4
LeBron: 3
Turkoglu: 3
Ray Allen: 2
Tr.Outlaw: 2
Gomes: 2
Kevin Martin: 2
Chris Paul: 2
Prince: 2 (1 in the playoffs)

2009 (updated list):

Iverson: 2
Granger: 2
Carter: 2
Ras.Lewis: 2

If somebody thinks I missed someone and can prove so, I'll hear.


Travis Outlaw from this season

Travis Outlaw made a fade away jumper with 8.9 seconds to go and lift the Trail Blazers to victory over The Pistons 84-83.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWK8Y9er8CA

[Biddy77]

brandon roy vs rockets this season?

[glidedrxlr22]

RoseCity calm down. Roy isn't even close to hitting as many game winning shots at Jordan or Ko-me. Let's talk in 10 years.

[Biddy77]

RoseCity calm down. Roy isn't even close to hitting as many game winning shots at Jordan or Ko-me. Let's talk in 10 years.

i hope that wasn't a mistaken assumption that i'm an alt account of RoseCity. that's not the case.

i pointed out the one he had because it wasn't on the list that was just posted from the last 3 seasons. honestly, it's the only actual game-winner i can recall him having.

[glidedrxlr22]

i hope that wasn't a mistaken assumption that i'm an alt account of RoseCity. that's not the case.

i pointed out the one he had because it wasn't on the list that was just posted from the last 3 seasons. honestly, it's the only actual game-winner i can recall him having.

I really meant RoseCity.

[Biddy77]

I really meant RoseCity.

gotcha. thanks for clarification.

[gts]

Updated and Confirmed over other list posted for Kobe, 8 of the shots on first list do not match criteria for a game winning shot

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

Kobe Bryant

12/27/99: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (Game-winning FTs with 8.6 seconds left)

02/13/00: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT, Lay-up and 1 with 4.8 Seconds)

05/10/00: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (Jumper with 5.6 seconds left)

11/16/00: Lakers 112 - Kings 110 (OT Jumper with 2.5 seconds left)

02/07/01: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (Jumper with 2.7 sec)

01/02/02: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (Buzzer beater)

02/22/02: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (Buzzer-beater jumper)

05/12/02: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (Lay-up with 5.1 seconds left)

12/06/02: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (27-point 4th Quarter comeback, jumper with 8.4 seconds left)

04/04/03: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (Buzzer beater jumper)

04/14/04: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT 3-pt buzzer beater)

03/12/05: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (Jumper 1 second left)

11/02/05: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper 1 second)

12/04/05: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (FTs with 11 seconds left)

01/12/06: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (Jumper with 8 sec)

04/30/06: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (OT buzzer beating jumper)

01/14/08: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper with 4.3 seconds left)

01/09/09: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (Jumper with 3 sec)

[Jasper]

wouldn't the thread have more cred , of how many game winning shots missed :confusedshrug:

[miller-time]

jordan was out for his second season and was retired for another one.

[Twenty Three]

Lebron will surpass everyone when it's all said and done.

[Da_Realist]

Lebron will surpass everyone when it's all said and done.

Holy Sh!t Lebron's already played 426 games! And he's playing at a clip of almost 41 mins/game. That's almost half of Allen Iverson's career (he's played 863).

For comparison's sake, Larry Bird played 897 games total.

Magic only played 906 games.

That's gotta be some kind of record for a 24 year old.

[Da_Realist]

Holy Sh!t Lebron's already played 426 games! And he's playing at a clip of almost 41 mins/game. That's almost half of Allen Iverson's career (he's played 863).

For comparison's sake, Larry Bird played 897 games total.

Magic only played 906 games.

That's gotta be some kind of record for a 24 year old.

Now at 427 games.

By comparison, MJ didn't play his 427th game until the last game of the 89-90 season.

[JJ81]

Lebron will surpass everyone when it's all said and done.

I dont recall LeBron ever winning the game with a mid-range shot/3pointer.

Just driving and shooting runners or lay ins

[Da_Realist]

I dont recall LeBron ever winning the game with a mid-range shot/3pointer.

Just driving and shooting runners or lay ins

He doesn't have to right now. That's the point. Why should he go out of his way to shoot a more difficult mid-range/3 point shot when no one can stop the easier drivers and runners?

[Diesel J]

I dont recall LeBron ever winning the game with a mid-range shot/3pointer.

he's made clutch-go head-game winning jumpers with 24-30 secs left in the game plenty of times. A few I found real quick..



Lebron James 41 Ponits @ Lakers (midrange game winning shot at the end)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4y8kIBYllM

Lebron James Clutch Buzzer Beater Three Pointer For Overtime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPEPbM1h9c

LeBron James LeBron James scores a 16-foot jumper with 23 seconds left in game 3 to give Cleveland the win.NBA Playoffs 2007 / Eastern Conference Finals / Game 3 / Pistons@Cavaliers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt-2Jzn1uA0&feature=related

[sammdogg]

Lebron James 41 Ponits @ Lakers (midrange game winning shot at the end)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4y8kIBYllM

Lebron James Clutch Buzzer Beater Three Pointer For Overtime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPEPbM1h9c

LeBron James LeBron James scores a 16-foot jumper with 23 seconds left in game 3 to give Cleveland the win.NBA Playoffs 2007 / Eastern Conference Finals / Game 3 / Pistons@Cavaliers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt-2Jzn1uA0&feature=related
i like how in a thread about jordan and kobe, there ends up being more talk about other athletes.. why dont you just make a new thread so then i could totally skip over the lebron and roy preaching.

[Diesel J]

^^My post was a response to the guy above