Jermaine O'Neal,Shawn Marion Swap Heating Up

[Interminator]

The emergence of Bargnani and the Raptors' shortcomings elsewhere in the lineup have made the possibility of dealing O'Neal sooner rather than later a growing priority, according to sources.

It would be a move welcomed in the Bargnani camp.

"I hope they do," one source said in reference to the possibility the Raptors could trade O'Neal to make room for the big Italian.

Most NBA clubs are looking for salary-cap relief in the summer of 2010 to be able to bid on a rich crop of free agents. O'Neal, with another season and $22.5-million (U.S.) remaining on his contract, presents a hybrid solution: He can help a team now without compromising long-term financial flexibility.

There are some interesting trade possibilities. NBA insiders list the Chicago Bulls and Miami Heat as teams with playoff aspirations that could use O'Neal's interior presence. He was averaging 15.3 points a game and 5.9 rebounds on 52.2 per cent shooting in just 29 minutes of court time in December before getting hurt.

The Heat are said to be interested in trading Shawn Marion. The versatile small forward was a favourite of Colangelo's when they were together in Phoenix. Marion is in the final season of a deal paying him $17.9-million (U.S.) this year and has struggled to find his offence alongside Dwyane Wade.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090116.RAPTORS16/TPStory/Sports

Apparently this deal could be close happen as early as Monday according to the radio.

Raptors fans how would you feel about trading O'Neal for Marion?

[picc84]

That would be a great deal for the Heat, and still wouldnt solve any of Toronto's problems.

[Skywalker]

Marion could be an improved Moon until he leaves and then we use the money to sign a real sg/sf

[Valliant13]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090116.RAPTORS16/TPStory/Sports

Apparently this deal could be close happen as early as Monday according to the radio.

Raptors fans how would you feel about trading O'Neal for Marion?


FAN-****ing-TASTIC!

I realize marion ia not a great shot creator, but he upgrades the Raps perimiter defense from the worst in the league, to solid. It also frees up parker from chasing around the best 2-3 on the other team, which hopefully gets his legs enough rest he can become a solid starter again. It also gives the Rap enough help on the boards that a Bosh/Bargs front court is less of a liability.

Aside from Kirilenko, this was my dream sceanrio.

The Raps still need a 2 that can create their own shot...but damn is it a step in the right direction (and it avoid the chemistry hit of having JO on the bench). Great news if it pans out.

[Valliant13]

That would be a great deal for the Heat, and still wouldnt solve any of Toronto's problems.

It actually immensely helps two of the Raps three biggest problems: Perimiter defense, and rebounding.

[picc84]

Really? I would have thought JO's defensive presence inside, rebounding, and the ability to bring him or Bargs off the bench would offset the upgrade in perimeter D Marion would bring. Guess you'd know better than I would though. *shrug*

Still think its a better trade for Miami.

[Skywalker]

the 2 fa names that jump out at me are jamal crawford and hedo turkoglu

[bokes15]

Marion could be an improved Moon until he leaves and then we use the money to sign a real sg/sf
yeah. he would definitely help us and be a significant upgrade over Moon/Graham but the bigger benefit would be his expirer and it would give us better options in the summer.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It'd be good for TO. Marion would give the Raptors a guy that can check Pierce, James etc. (as well as anyone does, anyway). He is not the wing scorer the could maybe use but should play well off of Calderon and Bosh. And he makes it easier to play Bargnani, as his strong rebounding at SF makes up for Barg's weak rebounding at center. Even if he totally fails, like Iverson in Detroit his deal is expiring.

[DoubleTech]

the 2 fa names that jump out at me are jamal crawford and hedo turkoglu

i just puked in my mouth a bit after i read your post sky.


crawford's not a winner, and turk is gonna ask for too much.

theres gotta be other options.

[bokes15]

Odom is gonna be an unrestricted, i'd LOVE to get him on this team. Hey, he'd definitely be given a starting role with us so that's not something he'd have to worry about.

[lukekarts]

It is not something I want to happen in Miami.

JO is a good player when fit, but when was the last time? Its too much of a liability to risk swapping Marion for him. Marion has been unproductive but at least he plays every game.

[bokes15]

It is not something I want to happen in Miami.

JO is a good player when fit, but when was the last time? Its too much of a liability to risk swapping Marion for him. Marion has been unproductive but at least he plays every game.
Yeah. I mean, I honestly don't see why Miami would want to trade their attractive expirer for a guy who's always an injury liability and puts them on the hook for an extra year. From a Toronto perspective i'd love to see it happen, but I don't see a major benefit for Miami.

[Valliant13]

Odom is gonna be an unrestricted, i'd LOVE to get him on this team. Hey, he'd definitely be given a starting role with us so that's not something he'd have to worry about.

Odom would be fantastic on the Raps. His D, Playmaking, rebounding, and desire to be a third option would fit perfectly.

[Skywalker]

i just puked in my mouth a bit after i read your post sky.


crawford's not a winner, and turk is gonna ask for too much.

theres gotta be other options.

we've witnessed first hand what Crawford can do many times, he's never won because look at the teams he's been on, he always clutches up

and as for Turk, I would be willing to pay him 10 mil, we need him

[bokes15]

we've witnessed first hand what Crawford can do many times, he's never won because look at the teams he's been on, he always clutches up

and as for Turk, I would be willing to pay him 10 mil, we need him
What? We need a scorer, but not a streetballer who dribbles too much and takes bad shots. Sure he can score in bunches, but i would definitely not want Jamal Crawford. As for Turk, 10 mill? per season??? He's turning 30 and he's definitely not someone i'd want to overpay like that.

[BFRESH44]

First of all, this trade won't happen, and nothing in that article indicates that a deal is a even close to being immineint.

However, I've warmed up to it. I really am not fond of JO and his balky knee, BUT if the Raptors take on Marcus Banks in this deal, I'd pull the trigger. That's the only way this deal will get done. That would put Miami golden cap wise in 2010.

Really thinking about it, The 2009 unrestricted free agency class is 'meh' at best. Odom??? Been there done that. Boozer? We already have a similiar player who's going to be better than you in two years. Then you have a center like Mehmet Okur who can chose to become a free agent..Nice center and all, but ehhhh but wrongside of 30.

And considering that even with Marion expiring this off-season, Miami still comes up bit short in terms of flexibillity of offering a max deal(Only have a 8--9 Million in space). There's really no point.

[kwajo]

Hedo is exactly the kind of closer the Raps need, a guy to rely on down the stretch and create shots out of broken plays. Marion expiring this summer would give us more flexibility to meet Hedo's contract expectations than Orlando probably can given their existing financial commitments.

[bokes15]

Hedo is exactly the kind of closer the Raps need, a guy to rely on down the stretch and create shots out of broken plays. Marion expiring this summer would give us more flexibility to meet Hedo's contract expectations than Orlando probably can given their existing financial commitments.
I'd take Hedo if he took a contract offer like 3 years 21 mill.

[Valliant13]

Hedo is exactly the kind of closer the Raps need, a guy to rely on down the stretch and create shots out of broken plays. Marion expiring this summer would give us more flexibility to meet Hedo's contract expectations than Orlando probably can given their existing financial commitments.

Hedo has a skill game, so he shouldn't decline too much with age. He's also a clutch shooter, and secondary playmaker, two huge needs. How is his D? Is he fast enough to hang with the Slashers at the 3?

[lukekarts]

First of all, this trade won't happen, and nothing in that article indicates that a deal is a even close to being immineint.

However, I've warmed up to it. I really am not fond of JO and his balky knee, BUT if the Raptors take on Marcus Banks in this deal, I'd pull the trigger. That's the only way this deal will get done. That would put Miami golden cap wise in 2010.

Really thinking about it, The 2009 unrestricted free agency class is 'meh' at best. Odom??? Been there done that. Boozer? We already have a similiar player who's going to be better than you in two years. Then you have a center like Mehmet Okur who can chose to become a free agent..Nice center and all, but ehhhh but wrongside of 30.

And considering that even with Marion expiring this off-season, Miami still comes up bit short in terms of flexibillity of offering a max deal(Only have a 8--9 Million in space). There's really no point.

You make a very valid point there, if we offload Banks in the deal then maybe it will be worth it. I think we could cope without Marion even if JO is injured, provided Beasley puts up 21+ every night and Wade stays fit.

I suppose it is whether Riley wants us to contest next season or not. JO won't make us an instant contendor, but getting rid of Banks means we have the most flexibility in the NBA come 2010.

Who will we have on the books?

Beasley $5m

...

If that's the plan, I think I'm sold.

[Sekman]

Deal is not slam dunk.. but i agree it will solve a lot of Raptor problems (perimeter defense, rebounding, someone at the 3)

Meanwhile, we give up interior defense when the bench is on da floor (Humps, Voskhul, Graham coming in for the 4 and 5 spots)

22M vs 17.9M.. that means raptors should get a filler... not too familiar with Heat's roster's salary, but we should also try to get either Joel Anthony or Dorell Wright. then i will make the trade

[305Baller]

"Marion has been unproductive"
rubbish

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115728

[Interminator]

JO at least will solidify the C position for Miami because Joel Anthony,& Udonis Haslem are not the answer at C if Miami plans to make the Playoffs this year.

I understand about JO's ability to stay healthy but Miami could help him by allowing him to not play back to back games like Shaq in Phoenix,and T-Mac in Houston to help him hold up by the Playoffs.

[wang4three]

At one point in their careers, this would've been considered a huge trade. Now it's just like swapping role players.

[Skywalker]

lmao Jamal Crawford is a pure scorer gtfo Raps fans we aren't getting Kobe if that's what you expect jesus

[plowking]

I would do Moon and JO for Marion and Blount. Anything else I think we would be hard done by.

[Skywalker]

Chalmers,Wade,Beasley,Haslem,JO

damn

[Valliant13]

lmao Jamal Crawford is a pure scorer gtfo Raps fans we aren't getting Kobe if that's what you expect jesus

Jamal is a low percentage chucker that doesn't play a lick of D. You give any medicore SG they same amount of shots they will put up comperable numbers. He makes way too much, and needs the ball too much, to justify his production.

[brwnman]

I don't want neither Jamal or Hedo. They are both ineffective, and are over hyped on Ish. I'd be more interested in someone like Marvin Williams with the given cap space. I wouldn't break the bank for him, but he'd be a solid SF for years to come, add in our pick next year and the extra available cash for the future, this trade makes sense for now and later.

Not only that, with this trade - Raptors can make future trades (for this year) near the deadline where they send off their expirer sans Marion for somebody else's bad contract, good contract. (Was thinking Milwaukee w/ Redd, but they've been quietly playing decent) We'll just have to wait for some team to fall off with a player like that who can be a creator, but the team isn't willing to pay (Caron Butler? - might be worth too much) (Monta Ellis - when he is healthy?).

At worst, we get cap flexibility and we sign Rasho in the off-season :pimp:...

[Chuck Thou NBA]

I would do Moon and JO for Marion and Blount. Anything else I think we would be hard done by.

Eww you would do them? you're quite a fan eh?

[Alonzo Magic]

As I said in the Heat forum - I'd only do Marion + Blount for JO and Anthony Parker.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

I personally think the Raptors would lose the interior defense the have with JO. Yes Marion would be on the court more, but I just have a bad feeling. Bosh would be much easier to double in the post again too.

[brwnman]

As I said in the Heat forum - I'd only do Marion + Blount for JO and Anthony Parker.

I think this is where the trade might be hitting a snag. The Raptors don't want a 7 million salary coming back for next year, unless if the Heat might consider.... Jason Kapono. Raptors want to have assets to move after this trade and Blount (and Banks) places a restriction on that...

[El Kabong]

22M vs 17.9M.. that means raptors should get a filler... not too familiar with Heat's roster's salary, but we should also try to get either Joel Anthony or Dorell Wright. then i will make the trade
Checked it on RealGM Trade Cheker and they can be swapped for each other without any other players needing to be involved to make it work salary wise.

[Alonzo Magic]

You fools, why did you sign Kapono to a contract like that!?

Whats the point of trading dog sh*t for bird sh*t?

[Valliant13]

You fools, why did you sign Kapono to a contract like that!?

Whats the point of trading dog sh*t for bird sh*t?

Because of his can't miss floater and Bird like touch passes. Also: his ability to travel while shooting a set jumpshot.

[SESSEL15]

The Raptors are not losing anything if they trade O'neal. He barely even plays. His presence has not been felt at all this year. Sure when he plays his interior defence is felt, but in my opinion it is overrated. Also, he makes the offence very stagnant. He had a string of 4-5 good games in a row but that is about it. Oh and If anyone sees him, tell him that Raptors fans were worried that he had been abducted by aliens or something.

[InfiniteBaskets]

Because of his can't miss floater and Bird like touch passes. Also: his ability to travel while shooting a set jumpshot.

We had him on the Heat, and he was just a very solid 3 point shooter. But he can't create his own shot. He might be twice the 3 point shooter James Posey was for our team, but Posey was so much more important in our line up because of his other abilities. Other teams know if they just guard Kapono at the 3 point line, it's over. I'd have Cook on the floor over him.


And I wouldn't really like to let go of Marion right now as he's playing probably the best all season. But if we can get rid of Blount or Banks, I'd be all for it.

[Skywalker]

omg Marvin Williams? Raptors fans don't know what they need LMAO

we're complaining about Bosh as our number 1 clutch time option so we want to add Marvin Williams? LMAO

[SESSEL15]

Does anybody know the contract status of Banks?

[bokes15]

We had him on the Heat, and he was just a very solid 3 point shooter. But he can't create his own shot. He might be twice the 3 point shooter James Posey was for our team, but Posey was so much more important in our line up because of his other abilities. Other teams know if they just guard Kapono at the 3 point line, it's over. I'd have Cook on the floor over him.


And I wouldn't really like to let go of Marion right now as he's playing probably the best all season. But if we can get rid of Blount or Banks, I'd be all for it.
Yeah, that was one of BC's worse moves. 6 mill a year, Jason Kapono is laughing straight to the bank.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-07/13/xinsrc_5420704131618046191805.JPG
"Yeah, I don't know what he was thinking either"

[BFRESH44]

Does anybody know the contract status of Banks?

2 years left after this at

2009-10
$4,553,793


2010-11
$4,847,586

And add on the fact that he sucks at being a point guard.

[SESSEL15]

2 years left after this at

2009-10
$4,553,793


2010-11
$4,847,586

And add on the fact that he sucks at being a point guard.

Thanks. That is a pretty ****ty contract, I doubt B.C. would take that on. 10 million for Kapono and Banks...**** that.

[brwnman]

omg Marvin Williams? Raptors fans don't know what they need LMAO

we're complaining about Bosh as our number 1 clutch time option so we want to add Marvin Williams? LMAO
That makes no sense. Marvin Williams isn't the creator or play maker at the SF position but he's the filler SF that would be ideal at that position. That slasher and a young guy with potential in our lineup that we lack. He's improved every year, his D will be adequate in our lineup, he is a solid rebounder and has potential to be a very good player. We'd need to fill that play maker need at SG and that isn't happening in '09 FA period, so either it's gonna happen via a trade or '10. Marvin Williams is the guy to get in the 09 FA, and I'm hoping ATL or any team doesn't offer him too much and the Raptors can get him...

[Pistol Pete]

That makes no sense. Marvin Williams isn't the creator or play maker at the SF position but he's the filler SF that would be ideal at that position. That slasher and a young guy with potential in our lineup that we lack. He's improved every year, his D will be adequate in our lineup, he is a solid rebounder and has potential to be a very good player. We'd need to fill that play maker need at SG and that isn't happening in '09 FA period, so either it's gonna happen via a trade or '10. Marvin Williams is the guy to get in the 09 FA, and I'm hoping ATL or any team doesn't offer him too much and the Raptors can get him...

I think you're incorrect on this one, the Raptors desperately need someone from the wing who is a scorer and can take over games creating their own offense from the wing position in crunch time. Marvin Williams is a very solid small forward but he isn't the type of player to take over a game. Chris Bosh is not a primetime, clutch player -- the addition of Jamal Crawford would be excellent, as inefficient as he can be, he also has the ability to take over a game with his offensive abilities, exactly the type of potent scorer the Raptors desperately lack at the wing position.

[SESSEL15]

I think you're incorrect on this one, the Raptors desperately need someone from the wing who is a scorer and can take over games creating their own offense from the wing position in crunch time. Marvin Williams is a very solid small forward but he isn't the type of player to take over a game. Chris Bosh is not a primetime, clutch player -- the addition of Jamal Crawford would be excellent, as inefficient as he can be, he also has the ability to take over a game with his offensive abilities, exactly the type of potent scorer the Raptors desperately lack at the wing position.

Crawford is a huge risk. I'd rather have Marvin who is young and improving. We're not in win now mode anyways. Well we were, until we started sucking.

[Real Men Wear Green]

2 years left after this at

2009-10
$4,553,793


2010-11
$4,847,586

And add on the fact that he sucks at being a point guard.
Still the best punt returner in the NBA. If he went to the NFL he could have been Reggie Bush, I say. Oh well.

[Skywalker]

Adding Marvin AND Crawford would be ideal. lol.

[bonez26]

Adding Marvin AND Crawford would be ideal. lol.

I really like the idea of adding Marvin Williams. he can cut,slash and is a natural scorer. Also very long can play decent defence and rebound well for his position. Would be a good aquisition if we could get him.

[brwnman]

I think you're incorrect on this one, the Raptors desperately need someone from the wing who is a scorer and can take over games creating their own offense from the wing position in crunch time. Marvin Williams is a very solid small forward but he isn't the type of player to take over a game. Chris Bosh is not a primetime, clutch player -- the addition of Jamal Crawford would be excellent, as inefficient as he can be, he also has the ability to take over a game with his offensive abilities, exactly the type of potent scorer the Raptors desperately lack at the wing position.

I think I haven't made my stance clear. I don't believe that Marvin Williams is the scorer or the playmaker that the Raptors need but if we end up doing this trade, we'll have the cap space to do something this off-season. When looking at the Free Agent corp, there is no one that stands out for the Raptors, but there is a guy that could help the Raptors solidify that SF position for years to come, and that is where Marvin Williams comes in. Raptors need help at both wing positions and that is clear to us, and getting Marvin Williams get the job half done. Raptors will also most likely get Delfino and he could be on the bench and our bench would be solidified at the wings (adding in that draft pick - depending on where it lands, you could have a potential starter there as well).

Just saying, it makes lots of sense to do this trade and adding Marvin Williams and it'll make our team deeper and stronger for the future...

[Kungfro]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=615~366&teams=8~28&te=&cash=

How about a Jermaine for Iverson swap?

[Skywalker]

no to Iverson

[Qwyjibo]

Why haven't people realized that Jamal Crawford sucks yet? It has been 8 years now and the facts are all there. And yet for some reason, every year people think he's some kind of prize.

Turkoglu is solid but not a fit for the Raptors. Bosh, Bargnani, Turkoglu in the frontcourt? Only if Colangelo wants an entertaining high scoring team rather than a good one.

To get Marvin Williams, the Raptors would have to overpay greatly otherwise the Hawks will match the offer.

I like Lamar Odom. I just wonder how much money it would take to get him to Toronto.

[bokes15]

I like Lamar Odom. I just wonder how much money it would take to get him to Toronto.
yup, same thing I said. I would love to see Odom in a raptors uniform. We know that even though he's supposedly accepted his role in LA, he knows that on any other team he'd be a starter. Plus LA is having to pay big money to Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum so they probably wouldn't be able to offer him as much as he wants. So... if we happen to luck out and get Marion's expirer, we'd have a shot... but knowing BC, he'd probably tie up our cap space with another perimeter shooter.

[Qwyjibo]

Maybe something like Maggette just got? 5 years, $50 million? He will be 30 at the start of next season though.

[kwajo]

Maybe something like Maggette just got? 5 years, $50 million? He will be 30 at the start of next season though.
Just for argument sake, if we were to end up with Odom, what the hell are we to do with the 2 spot? Parker will be gone, and everyone else sucks. Do we hope Delfino comes back, or pursue another mid/low level player as a stop-gap solution?

[Pistol Pete]

Why haven't people realized that Jamal Crawford sucks yet? It has been 8 years now and the facts are all there. And yet for some reason, every year people think he's some kind of prize.

Turkoglu is solid but not a fit for the Raptors. Bosh, Bargnani, Turkoglu in the frontcourt? Only if Colangelo wants an entertaining high scoring team rather than a good one.

To get Marvin Williams, the Raptors would have to overpay greatly otherwise the Hawks will match the offer.

I like Lamar Odom. I just wonder how much money it would take to get him to Toronto.

Jamal Crawford is a perfect fit for the Toronto Raptors, not sure what about him sucks -- 20 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds this season, shoots around 41-43% which is respectable enough. He would instantly become the best pure scorer of our backcourt, and the only one who could consistantly create his offense off the dribble, he has range and is versatile enough to play the point if Calderon were ever injured. He's also willing to take the big shots in late game situations, which is something we currently lack.

He's inconsistant, by no means perfect, but he'd make our team much better overall.

[Valliant13]

Just for argument sake, if we were to end up with Odom, what the hell are we to do with the 2 spot? Parker will be gone, and everyone else sucks. Do we hope Delfino comes back, or pursue another mid/low level player as a stop-gap solution?

Draft one and hope.

[Skywalker]

J-Craw to THE RAPS.

[Molson]

JO was signed with the intent of giving the Raptors a boatload of money during the 2010 FA season. Giving him up for Marion gives them that same (almost the same) money but for the 2009 FA season (which isn't all that impressive).

Marion can play some D, provide some support in the boards department (which helps with Bargs as your C), and is a good role player but he does not penetrate and get to the line which the Raps desperately need from either the 2 or 3 spot. So really, he is not the solution imo. Bringing him in just determines which year Co will have the money to spend for a FA.

I do beleive it favours Miami in that it frees up Beasley to gain more playing time and improve, gives them a more effective and true blue centre (when he plays) and gives them a boatload of cap space in 2010. They are also a more desireable place to play than TO so they will be bigger players in the market that year. If I was Miami, I would definitely pull the trigger on that trade. IMO they improve their team while freeing up space for the biggest FA crop that I can remember.

Keeping JO at this point makes sense for the Raps. When he and Bosh come off the books, they will have upwards of 45M during the 2010 FA period. IMO they won;t end up with one of the beasts, but at the same time there will be so many good Free Agents that there will some good deals to be had. With 45M to spend, they can practically sign 5 new starters (even though they won;t have to with Bargs and Calderon still in place).

If I'm Miami, I take advantage of the pressure Co is under in TO and pull the trigger on this immediately and sign Bosh to accompany Wade and Beasley in 2010. If I'm TO, I stand pat and look towards 2010.

[Skywalker]

lmaooooooooo
45 MIL for what? we are re-signing Bosh if we want to stay competitive.

[Sekman]

Just for argument sake, if we were to end up with Odom, what the hell are we to do with the 2 spot? Parker will be gone, and everyone else sucks. Do we hope Delfino comes back, or pursue another mid/low level player as a stop-gap solution?


maybe put Solomon as starting 2 ! to be honest, i think he is more effective at the 2 than 1. there is always JK

[Skywalker]

I'm convinced the dream situation would be to trade JO for Marion then sign Crawford and Marv.

PG- Calderon
SG- Crawford
SF- Marvin
PF- Bosh
C- Bargnani

and have a nice season so Bosh doesn't Vince us

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm convinced the dream situation would be to trade JO for Marion then sign Crawford and Marv.

PG- Calderon
SG- Crawford
SF- Marvin
PF- Bosh
C- Bargnani

and have a nice season so Bosh doesn't Vince us
That team would be incredibly soft. Why do you want to see TO have the worst D in the Atlantic (next to NY, who doesn't count as an NBA defense anymore).

[Qwyjibo]

JO was signed with the intent of giving the Raptors a boatload of money during the 2010 FA season. Giving him up for Marion gives them that same (almost the same) money but for the 2009 FA season (which isn't all that impressive).

... and also to help the Raptors win now. But now that Colangelo has flip-flopped in his direction for the Raptors once again, JO seems to be totally expendable.

Somehow I think Ford, Rasho and whoever they would've drafted would be far easier to trade than O'Neal right now. And since Bargnani was always in the long-term plan (a very safe assumption) then Colangelo wasted 3 of the Raptors best trade asset on either a stop-gap 2-year expirer (O'Neal) or an expiring contract (Marion). Brutal.



Jamal Crawford is a perfect fit for the Toronto Raptors, not sure what about him sucks -- 20 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds this season, shoots around 41-43% which is respectable enough.
He's a jump shooter who can't shoot. He's a career 40% from the field and 35% from 3. He doesn't play D and he doesn't use his solid playmaking skills to his advantage. After 8 years in the NBA, none of this is going to suddenly change. The only thing he does somewhat well is get to the line at an ok clip of 4-5 FTA per game the last couple seasons.

I'd rather get Carlos Delfino back and let him chuck up all the shots that Crawford would. Same bad shooter but at half the price and with added defense and rebounding.

[Skywalker]

That team would be incredibly soft. Why do you want to see TO have the worst D in the Atlantic (next to NY, who doesn't count as an NBA defense anymore).


we've tried our luck with toughness (JO) and it failed.

our best season lineup was TJ/Calderon/Parker/Bosh none of whom are tough really

we always have Robo Graham, Humphries, Voskuhl, guys like that off the bench

[Skywalker]

for sure, boy would it be nice to have Roy Hibbert right now.....

[jaydacris]

man everything is so messed up rite now... the main plan was to have JO make raps better and win enough for this/next season, so that we are able to entice bosh to stay in 2010... but now.. things are just plain F*uck*ED up!

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jermaine O'Neal isn't especially tough. If he wanted to play in the paint it'd be different for himself and for TO but he decided to be a jumpshooter and he came in in poor shape. Trading for him was a good idea in theory but unfortunately his poor habits have bit TO in the ass.

[Qwyjibo]

for sure, boy would it be nice to have Roy Hibbert right now.....

If the Raptors kept that pick, they would have Alexis Ajinca struggling to get anything better than garbage time minutes. Hibbert was not high on the Raptors draft chart for some reason even though he'd be a good player for the slow-down halfcourt team the Raptors looking like.

[Molson]

lmaooooooooo
45 MIL for what? we are re-signing Bosh if we want to stay competitive.

You say this as though it is the Raptors decision as to whether they should re-sign Bosh or not. I hate to break it to you, but the ball is in Bosh's court and with the way things are going right now, he is taking his ball and won't let anyone else play.

[Qwyjibo]

You say this as though it is the Raptors decision as to whether they should re-sign Bosh or not. I hate to break it to you, but the ball is in Bosh's court and with the way things are going right now, he is taking his ball and won't let anyone else play.
Bosh will re-sign. He's not going to leave all that extra money on the table. How many players have in the past?

The main concern will be how long until Bosh starts demanding a trade after the signing if the team is still mediocre at best?

[Molson]

[QUOTE=Qwyjibo]... and also to help the Raptors win now. But now that Colangelo has flip-flopped in his direction for the Raptors once again, JO seems to be totally expendable.

Somehow I think Ford, Rasho and whoever they would've drafted would be far easier to trade than O'Neal right now. And since Bargnani was always in the long-term plan (a very safe assumption) then Colangelo wasted 3 of the Raptors best trade asset on either a stop-gap 2-year expirer (O'Neal) or an expiring contract (Marion). Brutal.

QUOTE]

Yeah I agree that they hoped he would be able to contribute to make them a winning team, but they knew he averaged about 50 games a year the previous 4 years so the primary reason imo (obviously I could be very wrong)was to have that money available in 2010. I do agree though that they were really crossing their fingers and hoping he would stay healthy so that they could win, while having the money for 2010. Complete backfire.

I also agree with the wasted trade assets. To think that the rumours were flying that TO rejected Gerald Wallace for TJ Ford. I really hope those weren't true because I have nightmares about that to this day. A lineup of Calderon, Parker, Wallace, Bosh and Rasho with Bargs off the bench would have been so much better then what is happening right now.

[Molson]

Bosh will re-sign. He's not going to leave all that extra money on the table. How many players have in the past?

The main concern will be how long until Bosh starts demanding a trade after the signing if the team is still mediocre at best?

With how frustrated Bosh has looked at times this, I just don't know. If this misery continues he may not care about the money cuz he is gonna get a boatload of it no matter where he goes.

I guess my point is that nothing is guaranteed, so technically, they'll have 45M to spend. If it's on Bosh, then it's on Bosh. If it's not, then it's not the end of the world because the pool of quality players is so deep that year.

[beasted86]

I'm really tired of people mentioning these trades for a C and it's automatically an upgrade just because it's the Heat. Unless your a Heat fan, you probably don't watch games enough to see Marion's impact.

Brad Miller, Jermaine O'neal, whatever... You don't trade for an older, less defensive minded player and call it an upgrade. If anything we'd be moving laterally, and just buying time until 2010 to really go after a player.

[bk33]

forget crawford and hedo, just re-sign marion, I can't imagine him demanding that much bigger price tag than those two after this season.

[Valliant13]

Bosh will re-sign. He's not going to leave all that extra money on the table. How many players have in the past?

The main concern will be how long until Bosh starts demanding a trade after the signing if the team is still mediocre at best?

Franchise players? One. Shaq. Almost no one has turned down a max deal by their current team.

[Valliant13]

forget crawford and hedo, just re-sign marion, I can't imagine him demanding that much bigger price tag than those two after this season.

Marion is good now...but he is 30 year old who's game is almost entirely dependant on his freakish physical attributes...that is a bad combination long term.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm really tired of people mentioning these trades for a C and it's automatically an upgrade just because it's the Heat. Unless your a Heat fan, you probably don't watch games enough to see Marion's impact.

Brad Miller, Jermaine O'neal, whatever... You don't trade for an older, less defensive minded player and call it an upgrade. If anything we'd be moving laterally, and just buying time until 2010 to really go after a player.
Marion is actually a half-year older than JO. The trade could be good for the Heat if O'Neal worked himself back into the shape he was in in his first years with the Pacers but that was also true when he came to TO.

[power works]

JO was signed to address the short-term weakness in rebounding, interior D, and scoring. Plus, in a sense also mentor the development of Bargnani. This is with the overall understanding that if JO didn

[bk33]

Marion is good now...but he is 30 year old who's game is almost entirely dependant on his freakish physical attributes...that is a bad combination long term.
eh, the other two guys are 1-2 years younger only. i guess it's all relevant on what kind of contract we could get marion to sign.

[Skywalker]

ok so some people want a scorer, some people want a defender, it would be nice to have both, or maybe we could have just drafted Danny Granger and had both in the same player

[beasted86]

Anway, only way I want Jermaine O'neal is if we package some other bad contract with Marion, namely Marcus Banks... and even then I want a second rounder. We all know how well Riley works with those.

[GOBB]

Toronto adds JO and fans say great move
Sixers add Elton Brand and fans say great move

Neither however have been exactly the studs early on. Is Bargnani gonna keep up his performance/production or will he flame out? Hmmm

It makes sense for both teams. Freeing up Beasley by moving Marion while adding a Center altho injury prone isnt bad. Toronto adding a Marion to the lineup is better than what they ever had at SF.

[Qwyjibo]

JO was signed to address the short-term weakness in rebounding, interior D, and scoring. Plus, in a sense also mentor the development of Bargnani. This is with the overall understanding that if JO didn’t work out there wasn’t any long-term financial penalty to be paid.

In the context of all the trade possibilities surrounding the TJ sweepstakes, this was the best deal available, and the risk-reward scenarios were acceptable.
I don't understand how you've convinced yourself that it was a good deal now. Do you really think Bargnani was at any time out of the long-term plan for Colangelo? I would bet any amount of money against that.

With that in mind, why gut your team's trade assets for a short-term fix at the position Colangelo envisions Bargnani at? It doesn't make any sense now. Wouldn't it have been better to use some combination of Ford, Rasho, 1st for a long-term piece to put alongside Bosh, Bargnani and Calderon?

The Raptors gutted their assets for a stop-gap mentor to Bargnani? This trade wasted Ford, Rasho and the 1st and it has turned the 08/09 and probably 09/10 seasons into throwaway years. Colangelo has created a mess.



I don't regret trading for JO.
I wouldn't either if the Raptors had the intention to win now and take advantage of these two years with him. I liked the trade initially because that's what I thought was going to happen. Now apparently JO is completely expendable even for an expiring deal like Marion.

[macmac]

I don't understand how you've convinced yourself that it was a good deal now. Do you really think Bargnani was at any time out of the long-term plan for Colangelo? I would bet any amount of money against that.

With that in mind, why gut your team's trade assets for a short-term fix at the position Colangelo envisions Bargnani at? It doesn't make any sense now. Wouldn't it have been better to use some combination of Ford, Rasho, 1st for a long-term piece to put alongside Bosh, Bargnani and Calderon?

The Raptors gutted their assets for a stop-gap mentor to Bargnani? This trade wasted Ford, Rasho and the 1st and it has turned the 08/09 and probably 09/10 seasons into throwaway years. Colangelo has created a mess.



I wouldn't either if the Raptors had the intention to win now and take advantage of these two years with him. I liked the trade initially because that's what I thought was going to happen. Now apparently JO is completely expendable even for an expiring deal like Marion.



Man, are you a pessimistic fan. In this little rant of yours, you forgot to mention how little faith you've always had for Bargs. Now you're singing the tune of stop-gap and mentor when you were the first to throw the Italian under the proverbial bus. This season isn't a waste at all if our future C has arrived. Anyways, JO is only a stop gap if we get nothing in return for him. Marion can show us what a decent wing can potentially do for this team. If he has a good year and propels us into the playoffs, there's also a chance he resigns for a last contract, which would negate the whole rental business.

In my opinion, we should have traded Jose instead of TJ because of better value at the time, but its easy to talk in hindsight. BC hasn't created a mess, Garbajosa had a freak incident, Salmons had a talk with God. The biggest knock on BC was his draft choice and if that's coming around then there is still much hope for his tenure in TO.

[Qwyjibo]

Man, are you a pessimistic fan. In this little rant of yours, you forgot to mention how little faith you've always had for Bargs. Now you're singing the tune of stop-gap and mentor when you were the first to throw the Italian under the proverbial bus. This season isn't a waste at all if our future C has arrived. Anyways, JO is only a stop gap if we get nothing in return for him. Marion can show us what a decent wing can potentially do for this team. If he has a good year and propels us into the playoffs, there's also a chance he resigns for a last contract, which would negate the whole rental business.

Because this has nothing to do with what I think of Bargnani. Whether you think he's a good fit or not, it doesn't matter anymore because Colangelo is not trading him. I still don't think him and Bosh will ever be a PF/C combo for a title conteding team. This is about what COLANGELO thinks of Bargnani and he's always had him in the long-term plan for the Raptors. This is an assumption by me but I think a fairly safe one. So if you plan to have Bosh and Bargnani long-term why not use those trade assets to get another long-term piece to complement them? That's why this trade has been a huge waste for a team that is now very short on talent and trade assets.




In my opinion, we should have traded Jose instead of TJ because of better value at the time, but its easy to talk in hindsight. BC hasn't created a mess, Garbajosa had a freak incident, Salmons had a talk with God. The biggest knock on BC was his draft choice and if that's coming around then there is still much hope for his tenure in TO.

I thought Ford would be a better fit too but he was actually easier to trade because of Calderon's restricted free agency. It's easier to trade a set contract you have rather than work out one for a sign and trade.

The whole "hindsight is 20/20" is not a valid excuse here. It's on the GM to do his job right and not just fall back on that excuse. Colangelo IMO hasn't done that so far with the Raptors.

[Day La Ghetto]

marions finding his role last couple months. id still trade him but not for oneal even if he was healthy. dude is a shadow of himself and we need hustle

[bonez26]

marions finding his role last couple months. id still trade him but not for oneal even if he was healthy. dude is a shadow of himself and we need hustle

Obviously you haven't seen him play this year if your saying that. When O'neal has played for the Raps he was pretty much the best player on the floor including Bosh. He had several double double's before he went down 6 games ago. The only question is keeping him on the court. He can still get the job done talent wise.

[Tuvi]

Good trade for both teams, Miami needs a scoring big man and getting rid of Marion will give beasley more minutes and allow him to develop. The JO CB4 idea is not working and Bargs is doing great off the bench. They get rid of Jamario moon as a starter.

[danumber88]

This trade makes sense.
But I don't know. I like JO. I'm iffy with Marion.

The Heat need a veteran pressence in their starting lineup. JO does a great job and he will automatically be the defensive anchor to the team and provide great scoring downlow.

Marion is the SF we need to improve defense. He could also help make the Raptors a running team. He scores at times, but he still great

[Tips4]

Lol @ at this crazy Heats fans with their crazy trade proposals. Let keep it in reality for yal ok:

Shawn Marion is a Free Agent after this season and 99% he is leaving Miami(Leaving Miami with nothing). He is playing crap this year. His age is getting up there and he wants a huge contract(somethig he is not worth).

Soo no raptors arent taking huge contracts to make this deal work or you are not getting Lebron James for Shawn Marion. Snap back to reality Heat fans.

[Godfather]

This is a really bad idea for the heat. Yes they solve a big problem in the middle, but JO isn't guaranteed to play the amount of games they need him.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

Nice trade for the Raptors. Its obvious the O'Neal and Bosh experiment has not worked and may not ever work. Marion is a nice pick up even though it might be for only half a season but with Marion, it comes with the cap relief. Money talks in the off seasons and this puts Raptors right up there to be a player in the off season market.

This gives the Raps a starting 5 of:

Calderon
Parker
Marion
Bosh
Barg

Not bad but I would still like to see the Raps get a good backup defensive player.


Miami is the one taking the gamble here as O'neal has another season under contract beyond this season. O'neals health is my only major bug against this guy. O'Neal is as brittle as they come. Maybe the hot weather in Miami will help with his health.

[D-Rose]

Would be a good trade for both teams. Raps could develop Bargnani more with O'Neal gone while Miami would get a legit big.

No Brainer Mr. Riley and Colanangelo.

[jrong]

The more that I think about it, I think I like this trade. Yeah, JO's health is a question and they'd lose Marion's expirer, but there's no guarantee of getting Boozer over the summer anyway. And JO expires in 2010, which makes them a major player during the summer that really counts.

Also with Zo seriously considering a return, center potentially goes from being the weakest spot on the roster to a major strong point. It also makes us nine-deep:

Chalmers/ Quinn
Wade/ Cook
Beasley/ Jones
Haslem/
J. O'Neal/ Mourning

With the way Beasley has been playing this month, PG looks like the only glaring weakness in the lineup. But, Chalmers has had some very good moments already, and the Celtics have done all right with a rookie at the point for the last two years.

Anyway, this trade, I think, takes us from having potential to make the second round to being the darkest of dark horses to come out of the east (nobody except Orlando is consistently impressive at the moment)....

I've said it before, but the Heat's situation is touchy. They have to show Wade that they will be in position to win in 2011 and thereafter, but they've also got to win enough in 2009 and 2010 to convince him they're making major progress. This trade may put them in position to win now AND win later, and that would keep Wade pretty content....

[Alonzo Magic]

Raps fans, would you do - Wade for Bosh + Calderon? (curiosity, iz all)

[SESSEL15]

Raps fans, would you do - Wade for Bosh + Calderon? (curiosity, iz all)

Never. Would you do Wade + Beasley for Bosh?. Never.

[Alonzo Magic]

I wouldn't do the first trade, let alone lumping in Beasley.

[dware94]

might as well try.. at this point o'neal is just always injured, and the raptors arent going anywhere... im down for this trade, lets see if it works out

[jrong]

It would be a wicked irony if trading Marion to the Raptors now for JO puts us in position to take Bosh from them in 2010....

[chains5000]

Toronto should try a trade with Sacramento.

Jermaine O'neal
1st round pick

for

Brad Miller
John Salmons
Bobby Jackson

Why does Toronto do it:
Bargnani is playing well at C, which makes O'Neal kind of expendable. Not only that, but they even get another good center in case Bargs gets back to his former bust play.
Salmons would be a starter in any wing spot. Not an All Star but way better than current starters.
Bobby Jackson is there just to make the trade work, and is an expirer ($6,487,888).

Why does Sacramento do it:
Miller asked to be traded to a contender (Toronto isn't, but beggars can't be choosers, right?) and his contract is really ugly. Getting rid of him makes room for Hawes to start.
O'Neals huge expirer($21,372,000) will help Sacramento now they're in rebuilding mode.
Same for the 1st round pick.

Opinions?

[kwajo]

Raps fans, would you do - Wade for Bosh + Calderon? (curiosity, iz all)
Are you kidding? Colangelo would have to be suffering from a brain tumor not to accept that deal.

[Skywalker]

Soloman, Wade, Moon, Bargnani, JO

lmao ew

having Wade would make us better than we are currently tho

[jaydacris]

Raps fans, would you do - Wade for Bosh + Calderon? (curiosity, iz all)

helll ya!! although salaries wouldnt match... miami would have to add in another player

wade/haslem for bosh/calderon, sounds good to me :pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp:

[danumber88]

It's nearing.. theres gonna be a trade sometime today or tomorrow.

[bonez26]

It's nearing.. theres gonna be a trade sometime today or tomorrow.

I feel it'll be done by Monday or Tuesday for sure.

[Maniak]

News for this trade just keeps on coming (http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56668/20090118/oneal_for_marion_almost_finalized/)

Its really really heating up now

[ZeN]

News for this trade just keeps on coming (http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56668/20090118/oneal_for_marion_almost_finalized/)

Its really really heating up now


What about This:


Howard For Marion Being Discussed?


Sources indicate that the Mavericks and Heat have discussed a Shawn Marion for Josh Howard trade.

Jerry Stackhouse would likely need to be included in order to make the trade work in regards to the salary cap.



http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56667/20090118/howard_for_marion_being_discussed/



Posted a few minutes after yours...:oldlol:

[Dash]

LOL....Bosh is so out of there in '10.

[1~Gibson~1]

What about This:






http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56667/20090118/howard_for_marion_being_discussed/



Posted a few minutes after yours...:oldlol:the heat need a big. I think they'll take JO.

getting JO would be like the lakers when they got bynum back because everyone went back to their natural positions.

PF:Haslem/Anthony
C:JO/Magloire

[ZeN]

LOL....Bosh is so out of there in '10.


Bosh and Wade in 2010? :D

[hateraid]

Give us Daequan Cook and Marion and we'll give you Brand.

[DoubleTech]

LOL....Bosh is so out of there in '10.


yea cause people walk away from an extra $30 million every day :rolleyes:

[ZeN]

Give us Daequan Cook and Marion and we'll give you Brand.
They way the 6'ers have been playing without Elton.. this might work for both teams.. Wade and Brand is a potent two punch combo... too bad philly wont deal and Miami wont match..

[ZeN]

yea cause people walk away from an extra $30 million every day :rolleyes:


sign-and-trade?

[RaininThrees]

LOL....Bosh is so out of there in '10.


I'm not worried about that. He's not gonna leave all that extra $$ on the table, especially with the CBA coming due after the 2010-2011 season. He'll re-sign. IMO, the only guy you'll see moving is LeBron, bcs he's the only one who could benefit more financially by going to NY.

He may demand a trade if the team isn't where he thinks it should be 2 or 3 years later, but he'll re-sign.

[1~Gibson~1]

I'm not worried about that. He's not gonna leave all that extra $$ on the table, especially with the CBA coming due after the 2010-2011 season. He'll re-sign. IMO, the only guy you'll see moving is LeBron, bcs he's the only one who could benefit more financially by going to NY.

He may demand a trade if the team isn't where he thinks it should be 2 or 3 years later, but he'll re-sign.thats a headscratcher

[RaininThrees]

thats a headscratcher


In what way? Bosh can get an extra $30M, as noted above, by re-signing with the Raps. There's no guarantee that will be available after the CBA get restructured in 2011 (which is why all of these contracts are due in 2010). The only guy in the league who I can see making that up is LeBron by going to NY and getting endorsement deals.

[DoubleTech]

sign-and-trade?

for what?

if bosh wants to walk from the team (and he has every right to) why would we give him an extra $30 mill? we'd have to take back atleast $18 mill in contracts and i doubt there is a team out there that can give enough talent for toronto to bite. and if that team COULD give up that much talent, would bosh want to go to a gutted team? nope.

think.

[1~Gibson~1]

In what way? Bosh can get an extra $30M, as noted above, by re-signing with the Raps. There's no guarantee that will be available after the CBA get restructured in 2011. The only guy in the league who I can see making that up is LeBron by going to NY and getting endorsement deals.oh i thought you said "LeBron will be the one moving" then "He(LeBron) will re-sign"

i just misunderstood

[InfiniteBaskets]

Why do I get the feeling that JO won't be putting up as many points, rebounds, or assists as Marion is doing for us?

This deal is a lousy talent swap in my opinion, but if Marcus Banks goes, at least it dumps his salary off so that we can get around 5 million more to offer whoever in the 2010 free agency.

I guess that's our way of saying we don't want ANYONE in the 2009 free agent market. Or at least not any star.

[RaininThrees]

oh i thought you said "LeBron will be the one moving" then "He(LeBron) will re-sign"

i just misunderstood


Re-reading it, i got yah... what? you can't read minds?

:)

[Beebo]

Can't wait to see the boxscores of the miami game later today...if Marion isn't playing then this trade is definitely gonna go down.

[Dash]

yea cause people walk away from an extra $30 million every day :rolleyes:

Bosh doesn't strike me as an all about the money kind of player. I think he's very competitive and wants to win.

Obviously, that's not going to happen in Toronto...so you move on.

[DoubleTech]

Bosh doesn't strike me as an all about the money kind of player. I think he's very competitive and wants to win.

Obviously, that's not going to happen in Toronto...so you move on.


i don't care what you think, 30 mill is 30 mill.


colangelo has 1.5 seasons to work with to convince bosh to stay, he's always been an active GM, always tries to win and be competitive... and i'm sure chris bosh knows this.

[RaininThrees]

i don't care what you think, 30 mill is 30 mill.



It's not just 30 Mill. It's guaranteed 30 Mill. That's enough to set a couple of generations up so they won't have to work. That's not easy to pass up.

[Qwyjibo]

It's not just 30 Mill. It's guaranteed 30 Mill. That's enough to set a couple of generations up so they won't have to work. That's not easy to pass up.
Exactly.

He is going to take the money and stay in Toronto. If things start going south, he'll just demand a trade out and get it like most star players do.

[APfan]

does anyone know why JO and kapono werent even at the game today?

[SESSEL15]

Three team trade? Dallas, Toronto, Miami? O'neal, Marion, Howard. Who ends up where?

[RaininThrees]

does anyone know why JO and kapono werent even at the game today?


Kapono had the flu, and you obviously wouldn't want him anywhere near the team (if it's true)

Typically, JO had been getting treatment during the game, as that's when the trainers are most free. Before and after games/practices they're busy with the healthy ones.

[BFRESH44]

Matrix out tonight with a "strained groin".

[Grinder]

Matrix out tonight with a "strained groin".
Looks like the trade is done.

Matrix for J-Kap and JO.

If Banks is out tonight too, I'll be sold on this.

[Qwyjibo]

Hopefully Kapono's flu is just the "flu" as well.

That would suck if he's actually sick. Not because I care if he's healthy or not but because it would mean he is still a Raptor.

[TMAC-RAPTORS]

Matrix out tonight with a "strained groin".

Looks like a trade then. Have fun with Kapono!

[brwnman]

Matrix out tonight with a "strained groin".
:oldlol: Can we get Marion before tomorrow's game? We could use him...

[SESSEL15]

Hopefully Kapono's flu is just the "flu" as well.

That would suck if he's actually sick. Not because I care if he's healthy or not but because it would mean he is still a Raptor.

ahahhah:applause:

[RaininThrees]

Looks like the trade is done.

Matrix for J-Kap and JO.

If Banks is out tonight too, I'll be sold on this.


There'd have to be more thrown back TO's way for that to work out...

Something like Marion +Banks + Anthony (just threw Anthony in there bcs he's Canadian)

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

hahaha.Marion out....so its a done deal.....

[Beebo]

Matrix out tonight with a "strained groin".

Goodbye JO....

[SESSEL15]

If Kapono was really sick then its O'neal for Marion straight up. But if he's not...there is someone else coming back. Anyone watching the game? Any players not dressed either for Miami?

[Qwyjibo]

So if this deal goes through and once Marion expires, who can the Raptors realistically sign?

- Overpay a young option like Marvin Wililams, Linas Kleiza or Josh Childress to the point where their teams don't match?

- Overpay Trevor Ariza? He'll get full MLE offers I bet so the Raptors would have to go over that.

- Go with two smaller deals like re-signing Carlos Delfino and getting Hakim Warrick?

I assume the Raptors will have very little chance at getting someone like Odom or Turkoglu (not that I'd want him). Not much to choose from it seems.

[jaydacris]

So if this deal goes through and once Marion expires, who can the Raptors realistically sign?

- Overpay a young option like Marvin Wililams, Linas Kleiza or Josh Childress to the point where their teams don't match?

- Overpay Trevor Ariza? He'll get full MLE offers I bet so the Raptors would have to go over that.

- Go with two smaller deals like re-signing Carlos Delfino and getting Hakim Warrick?

I assume the Raptors will have very little chance at getting someone like Odom or Turkoglu (not that I'd want him). Not much to choose from it seems.

i like marvin williams alot, id be willing to give him money in the range 8-9 mill, but i think that'd get matched =\

trevor ariza is nice, but i wouldnt want to offer him more than full MLE, but then again in todays league, carroll and kapono are gettin full MLE deals :lol

[SESSEL15]

So if this deal goes through and once Marion expires, who can the Raptors realistically sign?

- Overpay a young option like Marvin Wililams, Linas Kleiza or Josh Childress to the point where their teams don't match?

- Overpay Trevor Ariza? He'll get full MLE offers I bet so the Raptors would have to go over that.

- Go with two smaller deals like re-signing Carlos Delfino and getting Hakim Warrick?

I assume the Raptors will have very little chance at getting someone like Odom or Turkoglu (not that I'd want him). Not much to choose from it seems.

Back to your pessimism. Just be glad if this goes through we won't be paying 21 mill to a player who can't even play half a season. We can worry about that other stuff in the off season.

[bballnoob]

So if this deal goes through and once Marion expires, who can the Raptors realistically sign?

- Overpay a young option like Marvin Wililams, Linas Kleiza or Josh Childress to the point where their teams don't match?

- Overpay Trevor Ariza? He'll get full MLE offers I bet so the Raptors would have to go over that.

- Go with two smaller deals like re-signing Carlos Delfino and getting Hakim Warrick?

I assume the Raptors will have very little chance at getting someone like Odom or Turkoglu (not that I'd want him). Not much to choose from it seems.

Perhaps they would be looking to resign Marion to a smaller deal. I would be lukewarm about the idea as I don't see him as a good fit with Calderon. Mediocre list of FA's at least from what you mentioned but maybe we can get a talented player in a salary dump.

[Qwyjibo]

i like marvin williams alot, id be willing to give him money in the range 8-9 mill, but i think that'd get matched =\
Same. To get him, the Raptors would have to go $10+ million and even then, I can't see Atlanta just giving up an asset like that.

I just hope Colangelo doesn't outbid himself again like he did with Kapono. Use the money wisely this time. This free agency period and this draft is basically the last good chance the Raptors have at getting solid talent to put around Bosh.

[statman32]

A trade has to go down tonight or tomorrow. No way is it a coincidence that Marion sat even though he was totally healthy at the end of last game. I said this morning that we will have to wait and see if Marion is playing and hes not.

[The Italian]

There'd have to be more thrown back TO's way for that to work out...

Something like Marion +Banks + Anthony (just threw Anthony in there bcs he's Canadian)
It would probably be something like:

JO
JK

for

Marion
Banks

[jaydacris]

It would probably be something like:

JO
JK

for

Marion
Banks

JO
kapono

for

marion
banks
j. anthony

acceptable to me

[SESSEL15]

It would probably be something like:

JO
JK

for

Marion
Banks

Can banks play any 2-guard? When Jose comes back I'd rather keep the back up minutes to Ukic for his development.

[CasterL]

pat riley just came with some stupid horse proverb on the matter, looks like it isnt set in stone yet

[statman32]

pat riley just came with some stupid horse proverb on the matter, looks like it isnt set in stone yet
What did he say?

Are Marion and Banks on the bench?

[FinishHim!]

It doesn't matter what Pat Riley said. Teams aren't allowed to talk about imminent trades until they are finalized.

[Rekindled]

What did he say?

Are Marion and Banks on the bench?

yeah both on bench

[SESSEL15]

yeah both on bench

Both on bench eh? Is Banks dressed/playing?

[statman32]

yeah both on bench
****!! I was hoping they wouldnt be at the game. Maybe Marion is really injured. :banghead:

[CasterL]

marion isnt going to play 'groin injury' acording to comentators, banks is on the bench but hasnt played yet.

riley said something about people puting 'the cart before the horse' in relation to marion oneal trade

[RaininThrees]

It would probably be something like:

JO
JK

for

Marion
Banks


Honestly, I didn't even check that, and it does work. I'd think the Raps would like to have someone like Anthony from a pure marketing perspective.. Canadian guy on a canadian team.. they never could get magloire when he was good...

[RaininThrees]

marion isnt going to play 'groin injury' acording to comentators, banks is on the bench but hasnt played yet.

riley said something about people puting 'the cart before the horse' in relation to marion oneal trade

Marion isn't even listed for Miami on the NBA.com gamecast of this game.

[CasterL]

hence why hes not going to play

[The Italian]

Can banks play any 2-guard? When Jose comes back I'd rather keep the back up minutes to Ukic for his development.
I don`t know much about Banks`s game but from what I remember in Phoenix is that he is not good at running an offense. He could probably play the two but I really don`t know. A Heat fan would probably be able to answer that question better.

[Qwyjibo]

JO
JK

for

Marion
Banks

Banks:

08/09: $4,176,000
09/10: $4,464,000
10/11: $4,752,000


Kapono:

08/09: $5,784,480
09/10: $6,212,960
10/11: $6,641,440


Would be a nice small victory for the Raptors if these two were included. Both fairly useless in Toronto but at least you save that extra $1.5 million. Doesn't really matter if Banks plays or not.

[The Italian]

Banks:

08/09: $4,176,000
09/10: $4,464,000
10/11: $4,752,000


Kapono:

08/09: $5,784,480
09/10: $6,212,960
10/11: $6,641,440


Would be a nice small victory for the Raptors if these two were included. Both fairly useless in Toronto but at least you save that extra $1.5 million. Doesn't really matter if Banks plays or not.
Yeah I agree as well. I looked up his salary just after I posted that trade and when I noticed that the Raptors save a bit of money it made me like this trade even more from the Raptors perspective.

I actually want that version of the trade more than just O`Neal for Marion straight up.

[SESSEL15]

It would suck if everyone is getting excited for nothing and these injuries are all coincidence. I for one, would be very depressed lol.

[A.M.G.]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2010~615~1023~2165~2009~498~51 0&teams=14~14~14~28~28~28~28&te=&cash=

Maybe something bigger like this? Or does Miami still want Jones?

[SESSEL15]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2010~615~1023~2165~2009~498~51 0&teams=14~14~14~28~28~28~28&te=&cash=

Maybe something bigger like this? Or does Miami still want Jones?

I love it, just because I hate Will Solomon. The raps should trade Won't Solomon and Cant-hony Parker asap.

[SESSEL15]

Ok maybe not Parker, but I had to add it for the sake of Canthony parker. lol the name makes me laugh

[A.M.G.]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2010~615~2165~510~2423&teams=14~14~28~28~28&te=&cash=

This one works somehow. Why not this?

[Sekman]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2010~615~2165~510~2423&teams=14~14~28~28~28&te=&cash=

This one works somehow. Why not this?

I love this one!!!

gettin' both Dorrell and Marion!

[1~Gibson~1]

or maybe this might happen

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=510~615&teams=28~14&te=&cash=

if it doesnt work out both contracts expire this offseason

:applause: Im a genius :ohwell:

[brwnman]

or maybe this might happen

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=510~615&teams=28~14&te=&cash=

if it doesnt work out both contracts expire this offseason

:applause: Im a genius :ohwell:

or both contracts don't expire this offseason and you seem like a dumbass...

[bjtrdff]

or both contracts don't expire this offseason and you seem like a dumbass...


True, but ppl overlook that JO for Marion can be done straight up. The raps better not take Banks for no reason.

[1~Gibson~1]

or both contracts don't expire this offseason and you seem like a dumbass...i said IF

and more than likely it will because both teams get what they need

[D-Rose]

Marion, JO, and Kapono don't play today. Both teams are calling them "injuries".....fishy isn't it?

[bokes15]

Raptors without centre O'Neal, forward Kapono for game against Suns
11 hours ago

TORONTO — The Toronto Raptors had limited options off the bench for Sunday afternoon's home game against the Phoenix Suns.

Raptors centre Jermaine O'Neal missed the game with a right knee contusion, while forward Jason Kapono sat out with flu-like symptoms. The duo joined starting point guard Jose Calderon (right hamstring) on the sidelines, leaving the Raptors with just nine healthy bodies Sunday.

O'Neal, acquired from the Indiana Pacers in the off-season, sat out for the 10th time in the past 11 games. The 30-year-old returned Friday night against the Pacers, but had just two points in 17 minutes.

A team spokesman said O'Neal will be eased back into the lineup as he returns from the knee injury, and is listed as probable for Monday's game in Atlanta.
O'Neal has been featured prominently in trade rumours. Reports say Miami and Toronto have been discussing a deal that would see O'Neal go to the Heat in exchange for forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks.
It may LOOK fishy, but it's not. BC has this deal on the table and on the heat end, it depends on whether or not JO proves he can actually remain on the court...

[SESSEL15]

i said IF

and more than likely it will because both teams get what they need

I doubt O'neal is going to say no to his 23 million dollar player option.

[bokes15]

I doubt O'neal is going to say no to his 23 million dollar player option.
Yeah, the only way I see JO turning that down at this point is if he hits his head really hard and gets some type of serious brain damage. :oldlol: I like the guy and all, but it's one of the most undeserved contracts in the NBA.

[SESSEL15]

Yeah, the only way I see JO turning that down at this point is if he hits his head really hard and gets some type of serious brain damage. :oldlol: I like the guy and all, but it's one of the most undeserved contracts in the NBA.

I agree man. I don't even think he deserved that much money 5 years ago. He is the ultimate hustler, lol. 21 mill to get massaged all day.

[DoubleTech]

according to the new york daily news... the raptors and heat have exchanged medical records.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2009/01/22/raptors_heat/

[bk33]

I wish they'd just hurry the eff up, everyday I refresh espn.com on the hour and I see nothing.