Marreese Speights will be the best big man to come from the '08 draft class

[Posterize246]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aFBf2L4lOfog/340x.jpg

Better than Brook Lopez.
Better than Kevin Love.
Better than Michael Beasley (if you consider him a big).
Better than Thompson, McGee, Hickson, and Koufos.


If you believe in PER, Speights is first among rookies (and by a large margin). He is 2nd in dunks among rookies with 44 (first is Brook Lopez with 58, who has also played 3 more games and averages 13 mpg more). He has one of the sweetest mid-range jumpers for a big man in the game, not just a rookie, but in the game.

Season averages...

16.0 mpg
8.2 ppg
4.0 rpg
.9 bpg
.45 spg
52 fg%
25 3fg% (1-4)
77% FT (47-61)

January averages (10 games)...

20.1 mpg
10.2 ppg
5.4 rpg
1.4 bpg
.4 spg
56.2 FG%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CojEs7txPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3PbS8H6vtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGOfFDPp00E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbQdBN4G-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdFswSQY9q0

Dasher stated in another thread he would take Speights over any player in this draft, regardless of position. I won't go that far. But big men? Definately.

Remember, Greg Oden and Marc Gasol were both drafted in '07.

[InspiredLebowski]

Hey tell me about it. I wanted Indy to take him at 11 but NOOOO, let's trade for an outside shooting/defensive role player because Speights doesn't play 25 feet from the hoop at 6'10 so he doesn't fit the offense.

Grumble grumble grumble.

[Poodle Bark]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

C'mon, dude. JJ Hickson has a higher ceiling than this guy.

[Posterize246]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

C'mon, dude. JJ Hickson has a higher ceiling than this guy.

Don't take me too seriously.

Ok.

[Skywalker]

Shut up Poodle Bark you piece of **** die in a fire.

:lol

seriously though, Speights is a baller. Lopez looks beasty though.

[Poodle Bark]

Ok.
What's so funny, clown?

How you post a thread about Marreese Speights and act indioffrent when I tell you another player has more talent than him??

Who is Marreese Speights??

Exactly.

[Meticode]

I could definitely see him under Brand's wing for the next 1-3 years then coming into his own. He's been impressive with his limited minutes this season. I'm kind of glad he's not getting starter minutes right now though. Sometimes giving a player 1-2 years to get to know himself compared to everyone else helps you, especially if you work on it during the off-season.

[lilmarcgasol]

Marc Gasol is the true beast, Lopez puts up stats yes, on a team where his teammates actually pass him the ball, but he is softer than a marshmellow coated shitzu puppy, and Speights lol what the hell his this he ain't even better than JeVale let alone Marc Gasol

[Posterize246]

What's so funny, clown?

How you post a thread about Marreese Speights and act indioffrent when I tell you another player has more talent than him??

Who is Marreese Speights??

Exactly.
I'm sorry, you said something troll? Ignore.

[1~Gibson~1]

Marc Gasol is the true beast, Lopez puts up stats yes, on a team where his teammates actually pass him the ball, but he is softer than a marshmellow coated shitzu puppy, and Speights lol what the hell his this he ain't even better than JeVale let alone Marc Gasoli had a feeling you would arrive soon

Let the showdown begin :pimp: :cheers:

[Posterize246]

I could definitely see him under Brand's wing for the next 1-3 years then coming into his own. He's been impressive with his limited minutes this season. I'm kind of glad he's not getting starter minutes right now though. Sometimes giving a player 1-2 years to get to know himself compared to everyone else helps you, especially if you work on it during the off-season.
Playing behind Brand will only help. Just hope we trade Dalembert before he picks up any of his tendencies.

[Posterize246]

Marc Gasol is the true beast, Lopez puts up stats yes, on a team where his teammates actually pass him the ball, but he is softer than a marshmellow coated shitzu puppy, and Speights lol what the hell his this he ain't even better than JeVale let alone Marc Gasol
This could be a valid argument....if Gasol was in this draft class.

I said the '08 draft class, not necessarily just rookies.

[Maniak]

Yeah, this kid is quite good. I agree, but Brook is decent too. Interested to see how both these guys pan out.

Also, KB is a jackass

[lilmarcgasol]

Let's just agree Marreese Speights and Brook Lopez would come no where near to winning the ACB league MVP if they were in Spain, and leave it at that.

[Nets fan 93]

Brook Lopez is wayy bettter thyan Speights
Lopez the last 3 games according to nba.com
28pts 10 rebs
17 ps 6 rebs 2 blks
13pts 8 rebs 5 blks

Also Brook has already had a 31 point game.

cmon now

[Nets fan 93]

Let's just agree Marreese Speights and Brook Lopez would come no where near to winning the ACB league MVP if they were in Spain, and leave it at that.
alright and this is the nba...so it really doesnt matter

[nbastatus]

brook lopez will be the best big man

[Posterize246]

Brook Lopez is wayy bettter thyan Speights
Lopez the last 3 games according to nba.com
28pts 10 rebs
17 ps 6 rebs 2 blks
13pts 8 rebs 5 blks

Also Brook has already had a 31 point game.

cmon now
I'm not arguing that Marreese is the better player right now. I'm saying that Speights has a higher ceiling, and when they are in their prime (28/29 years old), Speights will be the better player.

[incxpinoy]

i actually called this during pre season and i still believe it

[qrich]

Best? No, I think that will easily go to Brook Lopez, after that, it could be Speights, or it could be Love, and I'm also interested to see how Koufos, McGee, Anderson and even DeAndre develop.

[Attila]

At the pistons 76ers game, i was like 10 feet away from speights. he was working with a big old guy before the game. seemed cool.

[Posterize246]

At the pistons 76ers game, i was like 10 feet away from speights. he was working with a big old guy before the game. seemed cool.
that big old guy is Jeff Ruland

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rulanje01.html

[G-train]

[IMG]
Better than Brook Lopez.
Better than Greg Oden.
Better than Kevin Love.
Better than Michael Beasley




This is a joke thread isnt it?

[B-Easy8]

There is no way Speights is going to be the best big man in this class in his prime.
Both Brook Lopez and Beasley are going to be much better.

[godofgods]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aFBf2L4lOfog/340x.jpg

Better than Brook Lopez.
Better than Greg Oden.
Better than Kevin Love.
Better than Michael Beasley (if you consider him a big).
Better than Thompson, McGee, Hickson, and Koufos.


If you believe in PER, Speights is first among rookies (and by a large margin). He is 2nd in dunks among rookies with 44 (first is Brook Lopez with 58, who has also played 3 more games and averages 13 mpg more). He has one of the sweetest mid-range jumpers for a big man in the game, not just a rookie, but in the game.

Season averages...

16.0 mpg
8.2 ppg
4.0 rpg
.9 bpg
.45 spg
52 fg%
25 3fg% (1-4)
77% FT (47-61)

January averages (10 games)...

20.1 mpg
10.2 ppg
5.4 rpg
1.4 bpg
.4 spg
56.2 FG%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CojEs7txPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3PbS8H6vtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGOfFDPp00E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbQdBN4G-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdFswSQY9q0

Dasher stated in another thread he would take Speights over any player in this draft, regardless of position. I won't go that far. But big men? Definately.


He isn't going to be better than Kevin Love or Brook Lopez. Get real. At best, he's a poor man David Harrison.

[artificial]

I think Beasley's ceiling is higher, although I have serious doubts he will ever reach it. In any case, I don't think of him as a big man, so yes, Speights will be the best big man from this draft class.

Go Mo Speezy! :banana:

(And that may or may not be a homer vote)

[Posterize246]

He isn't going to be better than Kevin Love or Brook Lopez. Get real. At best, he's a poor man David Harrison.
You might have just qualified for the worst post ever.

[Godfather]

Is this a joke thread?

How can you expect us to respect your college player analysis when you post stuff like this?

[Skywalker]

He isn't going to be better than Kevin Love or Brook Lopez. Get real. At best, he's a poor man David Harrison.


:roll: wtf?

[Dasher]

I agree. Speights has a great combination of athleticism and skill. He has a vast array of post moves and hits the glass. Brook Lopez will be lucky to become a shot blocking Mark Gminski. Greg Oden and Marc Gasol are not in this draft class. Mareese at his worse will be Nene. When he pans out he will be an evolved Elton Abdur Rahim with team success.

[A.M.G.]

This could be a valid argument....if Gasol was in this draft class.

I said the '08 draft class, not necessarily just rookies.
Owned. Get out of this man's thread.



As for the subject, I don't think Speights will be the best big man in the draft class because he has a stupid-looking face. Admit it, he does.

[Posterize246]

Owned. Get out of this man's thread.



As for the subject, I don't think Speights will be the best big man in the draft class because he has a stupid-looking face. Admit it, he does.
But he makes for a helluva interview!

[EastBayFuNk510]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aFBf2L4lOfog/340x.jpg

Better than Brook Lopez.
Better than Kevin Love.
Better than Michael Beasley (if you consider him a big).
Better than Thompson, McGee, Hickson, and Koufos.


If you believe in PER, Speights is first among rookies (and by a large margin). He is 2nd in dunks among rookies with 44 (first is Brook Lopez with 58, who has also played 3 more games and averages 13 mpg more). He has one of the sweetest mid-range jumpers for a big man in the game, not just a rookie, but in the game.

Season averages...

16.0 mpg
8.2 ppg
4.0 rpg
.9 bpg
.45 spg
52 fg%
25 3fg% (1-4)
77% FT (47-61)

January averages (10 games)...

20.1 mpg
10.2 ppg
5.4 rpg
1.4 bpg
.4 spg
56.2 FG%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CojEs7txPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3PbS8H6vtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGOfFDPp00E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbQdBN4G-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdFswSQY9q0

Dasher stated in another thread he would take Speights over any player in this draft, regardless of position. I won't go that far. But big men? Definately.

Remember, Greg Oden and Marc Gasol were both drafted in '07.


Yes he shall...even though Im pissed that he left us....but he made the right choice to go to the NBA

Go GATORS!!!!!!!!!!

[saKf]

Kevin Love is averaging a double-double in January in only 23 minutes. He's 20 years old. It's far from a given that Speights will be better than him.

[ZHAKIDD532]

Lopez is going to be a MONSTER averaging 20/10 in about 2 years. Lopez is going to be a more important piece on the Nets ultimately, so he's going to get the numbers that Speights won't. He's starting to get more aggressive already.

[ChuckOakley]

Lopez, Love are 20 years old, Speights is 21 years old.

Love and Lopez are outproducing Speights already at a younger age, so I'm not sure why Speights' learning curve would be so much more pronounced than Love or Lopez.

But I do think a case can be made for any of these 3.

Love's main knock IMO is his conditioning, size and from what I remember hearing a bad back.

Lopez's main knock is that people think he is the most polished and not going to improve as much the others (not sure why given he is 20 y/o)

Posterize, I know you've always disliked Lopez (thought he was going to be a bust to a certain extent/overrated) and are a Sixer fan so I can't take this prediction to seriously. However I will say I did want the Nets to take Speights prior to draft night (not knowing Lopez would fall that far) and consider him a top 10 player from this draft.

[Dasher]

Mareese is a superior scorer to Brook and their rebounding is equal. Mareese is also a better passer and jumpshooter. Not only that, but he plays better man to man defense because of his fundamentals, and strength. Mareese also is a more consistent performer and squeezes a lot of productivity into his limited minutes.

Kevin will always be handicapped by things that he has no control over. He will never be a great defender because his physical limitations. He will be a good, but not great player.

Mareese will be a multiple time All Star.

[ZHAKIDD532]

Speights right now has no pressure on him, and I think that's helping his game. Lopez has to produce in order for his team to win games. I think there is something to be said for that.

[Dasher]

Mareese has had to produce in the absense of Elton Brand. He is on the floor during crunch time and is not a ball stopper.

[ZHAKIDD532]

I guess we'll see. I really don't know much about Speights. I remember during the draft thinking if the Nets picked him up it wouldn't be a bad thing.

I watch Lopez on a regular basis, and he just seems to have an incredible future in front of him. He's going to be backing up Dwight Howard in the ASG one day soon I think.

[ChuckOakley]

Mareese has had to produce in the absense of Elton Brand. He is on the floor during crunch time and is not a ball stopper.

He's not starting is he? I thought Young and Dalambert were the PF and C with Brand out.

Does he play a majority of his minutes with/against 2nd units?

[Styles p]

He's not starting is he? I thought Young and Dalambert were the PF and C with Brand out.

Does he play a majority of his minutes with/against 2nd units?

pretty much the whole 4th 1/4 while dalembert sits the bench. and he does play with starters/against starters alot of the time.

[Hopper15]

Anthony Randolph has a much higher ceiling than Speights.

[Posterize246]

Lopez, Love are 20 years old, Speights is 21 years old.

Love and Lopez are outproducing Speights already at a younger age, so I'm not sure why Speights' learning curve would be so much more pronounced than Love or Lopez.

But I do think a case can be made for any of these 3.

Love's main knock IMO is his conditioning, size and from what I remember hearing a bad back.

Lopez's main knock is that people think he is the most polished and not going to improve as much the others (not sure why given he is 20 y/o)

Posterize, I know you've always disliked Lopez (thought he was going to be a bust to a certain extent/overrated) and are a Sixer fan so I can't take this prediction to seriously. However I will say I did want the Nets to take Speights prior to draft night (not knowing Lopez would fall that far) and consider him a top 10 player from this draft.
My beef with Lopez wasn't that he'd be a bust. I thought he'd be a consistent starter. My beef was I don't like 7 foot centers shooting below 50%. He shot 47% at Stanford and my thought was...if he's shooting 47% against college players what's he gonna do against NBA players? So far he's at 48%.

He'll be fine. I just don't see him becoming a beast. All-star is possible because there's limited good centers. Maybe a 15/10 type guy.

And Speights plays all crunch time for Philly and usually the entire 4th quarter. He should be starting over Dalembert.

[Posterize246]

bump

24 mins
24 points (11-16 fg)
2-2 free throw
7 rebounds
2 blocks
1 steal
0 turnovers

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119965

Legitment talent who can get 18/10 in two to three years if he keeps working hard. Seems to be better in fastbreaks too than Brand does. Which fits with the 76ers.


pick him up if hes on waivers in ur fantasy leagues. i did that when i heard brand was out for the season.

pts, rbs, blks, fg%, ft%, thats 5 cats. w/o brand they need inside scoring and he's gonna be doing that scoring and bring down sammy d's rebounds and blocks career average by 2 or 3 miles hopefully.


The guy also has some serious post moves that have yet to be displayed.


It is a very nice game, and should be the beginning of his rise to prominence in this draft class. When the refs begin to respect his game more, he will become a real problem for the competition.


steal of the draft.

[miles berg]

Marreese Speights & Jason Thompson should have been selected much, much higher in the draft.

[Styles p]

i cant wait to see this dude in 3 years. i think he fits the system so well he can run the break and slam. or when the fast break gets slowed down he can shoot and post up. i dont think we would have signed brand if we knew how he was going to turn out.

[big baller]

Love averages 9/9 on 24mpg...thts impressive.

[gigantes]

Better than Brook Lopez.
pfff

you have no idea if he'll be better than lopez.
both are in their rookie seasons... THEIR ROOKIE SEASONS... and both are doing great.

your tendency to be easily excited is understood, but try to keep it under control next time, okay?

[RoseCity07]

Him and Oden lead all rookies in per I think. If that's any indication this guy will be pretty good. Although if Oden didn't have that fouling problem and was getting more touches I'm sure he would blow this kid out of the water.

[StroShow4]

i'm officially on this guy's bandwagon, mostly because i had him in two fantasy leagues for his great game tonight. :oldlol:

also because he throws down some pretty nice dunks. :pimp:

[gigantes]

Him and Oden lead all rookies in per I think.
nope, oden is behind love, with doctor hibbert and lopez almost at the same level.

[DeuceWallaces]

nope, oden is behind love, with doctor hibbert and lopez almost at the same level.

RoseCity only speak homer.

[gigantes]

RoseCity only speak homer.
Johnsonville solely elocute simpson.

[sixerfan3511]

this is purely a prediction. It's just his opinion. He very well could be, he wasn't even supposed to contribute this year, much like Jason Smith and Thad last year, but he's been tremendous for the 76ers off the bench. He has a higher ceiling than Lopez, based on his athletic ability. Lopez is a very good center and will be for a long time, but i don't see superstar, maybe even all star ability with him. Marreese has the ability to be a Rasheed Wallace with his inside, out game. He also has the ability to be an Amare Stoudemire. Lopez? not so much...he could be a Chris Kaman from last year. Love will be a very solid player for a lot of years too, but he doesn't have the ability, IN MY OPINION, to be 20 10, and i feel Speights does. Beasley is a forward, not a big, so i wouldn't include him in here. Anthony Randolph and JaVale McGee were the highest ceiling bigs, but could also be complete busts. Then there's Jason Thompson, who falls somewhere in between a Love/Lopez and a Speights, decent potential but not much of a risk as well. Idk, only time will tell, but i have no problem saying Posterize could be right on this one. The guy would be putting up 16 and 8 with almost 2 blocks a night if he played 30 minutes.

[pp38]

Rasheed Wallace plays great defense and Speights is not even close in that regard. Speights IMO can be a very poor mans Amare, but Brook Lopez is showing more at this point and has the potential to be a great 2 way bigman (poor mans Duncan) and is likely to be the best big from 08 draft class.

[wang4three]

I'll still take Brook or Kevin without blinking.

[ChuckOakley]

My beef with Lopez wasn't that he'd be a bust. I thought he'd be a consistent starter.........

ORLY......

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2589653

Rookie Awards
by Posterize246


Draft Bust


Brook Lopez, NJ

It

[Posterize246]

[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]ORLY......

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2589653

Rookie Awards
by Posterize246


Draft Bust


Brook Lopez, NJ

It

[ChuckOakley]

^^^
huh?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lopezbr01&p2=speigma01

H2H

Lopez
15 pts
14 rbs
3.5 blks
48% FG
2 Wins
2 starts
32.5 mpg
Age 20

Speights
5.5 pts
3 rbs
0.5 blks
40% FG
2 losses
1 start
16 mpg
Age 21

[BIG FURB]

^^^
huh?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=lopezbr01&p2=speigma01

H2H

Lopez
15 pts
14 rbs
3.5 blks
48% FG
2 Wins
2 starts
32.5 mpg
Age 20

Speights
5.5 pts
3 rbs
0.5 blks
40% FG
2 losses
1 start
16 mpg
Age 21

Well, that certainly speaks volumes.

[ZHAKIDD532]

Lopez is going to be a 20/10 monster. Speights will be good to very good, but not Lopez.

[Posterize246]

I think some people are taking this thread wrong. Its just an OPINION. If you think Brook will be better that's fine.

Just for a comparison, everyone would agree that Al Horford was the best big man to come in last year. He was even 2nd in rookie of the year voting. But some people may feel that Spencer Hawes will be the best big man in the class. Key words are WILL BE.

I believe Speights WILL BE the best big man from this draft class.

[ChuckOakley]

[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]ORLY......

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2589653

Rookie Awards
by Posterize246


Draft Bust


Brook Lopez, NJ

It

I get what you're saying.
I just didn't get what this post above meant.
Or why you said you never said he would be a bust, when you clearly did.
Or why you did a mock draft with him going #3 to Minny and yet think he's a bust at #10 for NJ.

To me, it seems like your dislike for Stanford/Brook personally/that SUVSL poster or whatever his name is biases you, and now instead of admitting you were pretty much wrong about Brook, you're simply looking for a player on your own team to hype up and justify your statements about Lopez.

[Nickel06]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aFBf2L4lOfog/340x.jpg

Better than Brook Lopez.
Better than Kevin Love.
Better than Michael Beasley (if you consider him a big).
Better than Thompson, McGee, Hickson, and Koufos.


If you believe in PER, Speights is first among rookies (and by a large margin). He is 2nd in dunks among rookies with 44 (first is Brook Lopez with 58, who has also played 3 more games and averages 13 mpg more). He has one of the sweetest mid-range jumpers for a big man in the game, not just a rookie, but in the game.

Season averages...

16.0 mpg
8.2 ppg
4.0 rpg
.9 bpg
.45 spg
52 fg%
25 3fg% (1-4)
77% FT (47-61)

January averages (10 games)...

20.1 mpg
10.2 ppg
5.4 rpg
1.4 bpg
.4 spg
56.2 FG%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CojEs7txPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3PbS8H6vtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGOfFDPp00E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFbQdBN4G-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdFswSQY9q0

Dasher stated in another thread he would take Speights over any player in this draft, regardless of position. I won't go that far. But big men? Definately.

Remember, Greg Oden and Marc Gasol were both drafted in '07.


Sorry Dude, but its lopez. I think that Speights is ok, but Lopez is goning to be better in the long term, I think. Oh, and what if the Nets get Stoudamire?? Holy ****!!!!!!!!!:rockon: :rockon:

[Posterize246]

[QUOTE=Posterize246]

I get what you're saying.
I just didn't get what this post above meant.
Or why you said you never said he would be a bust, when you clearly did.
Or why you did a mock draft with him going #3 to Minny and yet think he's a bust at #10 for NJ.

To me, it seems like your dislike for Stanford/Brook personally/that SUVSL poster or whatever his name is biases you, and now instead of admitting you were pretty much wrong about Brook, you're simply looking for a player on your own team to hype up and justify your statements about Lopez.
My fault I did that post from my phone and it didn't come out right. It was supposed to be about how if I had to pick a player from the lottery (because those are the only ones that you can really call busts) I picked Lopez. So far it looks like Joe Alexander is the only one that could possibly have bust potential.

I think the "bust" post was a little to bust Stanford's balls. I didn't think Lopez would be as good as he's been, but I didn't really think of him as a "bust". I thought he'd top out as a 13/9 player, somewhere in that range, which isn't a bust at all. I thought he had the most potential to be a bust, which is a little different. Me putting him at #3 in my mock was because it was a mock, not a rating of the best players in the draft.

Speights to me still has the most potential. I'd say that's 80% from watching them, and 20% biased. I'll admit it. I'll have to bump this thread at the end of the season so I can post Speights' "pre-All Star" #s to his "post-All Star" #s.

[ChuckOakley]

My fault I did that post from my phone and it didn't come out right. It was supposed to be about how if I had to pick a player from the lottery (because those are the only ones that you can really call busts) I picked Lopez. So far it looks like Joe Alexander is the only one that could possibly have bust potential.

I think the "bust" post was a little to bust Stanford's balls. I didn't think Lopez would be as good as he's been, but I didn't really think of him as a "bust". I thought he'd top out as a 13/9 player, somewhere in that range, which isn't a bust at all. I thought he had the most potential to be a bust, which is a little different. Me putting him at #3 in my mock was because it was a mock, not a rating of the best players in the draft.

Speights to me still has the most potential. I'd say that's 80% from watching them, and 20% biased. I'll admit it. I'll have to bump this thread at the end of the season so I can post Speights' "pre-All Star" #s to his "post-All Star" #s.

You bump that, I'll bump these:


Well I'm ready to see Brook Lopez play like a dud like I said he is. Hope he doesn't prove me wrong:)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94819&page=17


You can't boost his #s. He averaged 19/8 on 47% shooting. No way he gets close to 10 rebounds in the league. Lopez is a career 12 ppg,7.5 rpg guy in the nba


Jerryd Bayless, Anthony Randolph, Brandon Rush were all better. Even if they don't fit a need of your team, you can always trade them for something that does. Hibbert and Speights were also better big men. I don't like Koufos that much, but I have him higher than Lopez. No way I respect a 7 footer who shot under 47% in college.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93700&page=3

:D

[Posterize246]

You bump that, I'll bump these:



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94819&page=17




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93700&page=3

:D
:oldlol: You're doing your homework. I stand corrected. Can't even remember this stuff.

By the way, I wasn't serious about Koufos.:lol

Edit: He's still not getting 10 boards in the league. I stand by it. And I don't think I'm THAT far off by saying he's

[wang4three]

Wow, props to Chuck for that work.

[ChuckOakley]

Wow, props to Chuck for that work.

It's just a simple google seach of just ISH with the keywords Posterize, Lopez, Bust... lots of hit!

[iggy>]

lopez=center, speights=pf. we should be comparing speights to beasley/arthur/love.

[Posterize246]

lopez=center, speights=pf. we should be comparing speights to beasley/arthur/love.
Nah, I said big man in the title so they're all legit. And Speights should be the Sixers starting center. Even if he is a pf.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

was at the game last night and was very impressed looking up at the scoreboard at halftime and seeing Speights point total. First game I attended this season where I could comfortably leave half-way thru the 4th qt....very impressive win last night...i wish i saw more of shaq out there, but oh well. i love this sixers team, but we are stuck with our hands tied behind ours backs for the next 4 or 5 years. everybody wants lou williams to be our starting point guard...but he doesnt even know how and when to pass...keep andre miller or this team might not even make the play-offs next season.

[FOYE4MVP]

Kevin Love is way better the Speights

[Styles p]

:ohwell: theres some haters in here.

[iggy>]

kevin love blows.

[GOBB]

I can definately see the potential for that happening. When Speights pans out and people redo the draft? He'll get picked alot higher than he went. He has room for improvement. Already a better rookie big than Jason Smith was for us last year. Love how he hard fouls players. Its like Charles Oakley schooled him on it or something. He has a sweet jumper. Like to see him develop more in the low post. But that will happen next season. Decent shotblocker.

[Dasher]

The Marreese Speights bandwagon is rolling again, and space on board is becoming limited. The Sixers rookie scored 24 points in 24 minutes last night to lead Philly past the Suns, his second straight double-figure game off the pine after he'd hardly played in the three previous contests.
Speights still leads all rookies in PER at 21.12; in fact, he's miles ahead of second-place Kevin Love. But he's playing only 15.5 minutes per game right now, something that should change drastically now that Elton Brand is out for the season.
At this point, Speights is outplaying starting center Samuel Dalembert (PER 13.40) so badly that it seems only a matter of time before he claims the starting job, even though his defense has been up-and-down and he's more suited to playing power forward. If so, he may provide an additional catalyst to the Sixers' surprising push in Brand's absence.


Holinger is back on the bandwagon.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Yo, Speights is the truth. In High School he sh*tted on the Lopez brothers. Yes, Brook and Robin. He was on my brothers AAU team and they almost won in Vegas. Lost to Jasper from Kentuck the gaurd, Pondexter from Washington and the Lopez twins. My brothers team was stacked but the two best players were Stanley Robinson from Uconn and Speights. They had some talent, Alvin Mitchell from Cincy, Gary Clark from Wake Forest, My Bro, Chadwick Gray from South Carolina.

Bottom line is I found out Speights was the real deal after what he did to Brooke. Absolutely went off that game


http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/361130.html

That's their AAU team, They were sick and my brother killed Jasper that game it was Pondexter that went off on us.




EBO/EA Sports (68) vs. Tallahassee Wildcats Red (64) Quincy Pondexter 16pts.

[gigantes]

Well I'm ready to see Brook Lopez play like a dud like I said he is. Hope he doesn't prove me wrong:)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=94819&page=17
You can't boost his #s. He averaged 19/8 on 47% shooting. No way he gets close to 10 rebounds in the league. Lopez is a career 12 ppg,7.5 rpg guy in the nba
glad you found those, chuck.
i remember some clown dissing lopez in the early season and i guess it was indeed posterize.

and his statement about lopez not being able to average 10 boards is busted, also.
lopez has been averaging over 10 boards since january 30, a stretch of seven games.
as he continues to improve i see no reason why that number should go down.

...

re: sizers,
so what do to about brand?
is there any way to trade him for anything at all? since he didn't cost the sixers anything, if there was a way to simply get rid of him then i would be all for it. the sixers are going to badly need his cap space in a couple years...

[sixerfan3511]

glad you found those, chuck.
i remember some clown dissing lopez in the early season and i guess it was indeed posterize.

and his statement about lopez not being able to average 10 boards is busted, also.
lopez has been averaging over 10 boards since january 30, a stretch of seven games.
as he continues to improve i see no reason why that number should go down.

...

re: sizers,
so what do to about brand?
is there any way to trade him for anything at all? since he didn't cost the sixers anything, if there was a way to simply get rid of him then i would be all for it. the sixers are going to badly need his cap space in a couple years...

no we should not just get rid of Brand or trade him for a bag of chips, he didn't work out this year, but it's not a failed signing.

[gigantes]

no we should not just get rid of Brand or trade him for a bag of chips, he didn't work out this year, but it's not a failed signing.
but he's a horrible fit with the sixers' style and he gets paid a fortune.

when things like the rookie contracts of young and speights are up, they are going to badly need the money being wasted on brand.

[rknine15]

I like Speights but i'll still take Lopez and Love over him. BTW Brook Lopez is a beast he's gonna be a 20/10 guy very soon.

[GOBB]

but he's a horrible fit with the sixers' style and he gets paid a fortune.

when things like the rookie contracts of young and speights are up, they are going to badly need the money being wasted on brand.

No they are not. I dont know why people keep saying that.

Iggy and Lou were given new deals this past offseason. Ask yourself how.

[twolvesfan]

kevin love blows.
:roll:

[Dresta]

Can't see anyone other then Beasley being the best big in this class, he's be putting up big numbers if he wasn't playing alongside D-Wade and having to play defense. Speights has more upside then B. Lopez though, Lopez's game is already very refined, he's just big, but very unathletic (shown by when he got blocked by Wade twice and Beasley on 3 succesive possessions) he doesn't have much room to improve imo.

[mrhoopfan]

Marc Gasol is the true beast, Lopez puts up stats yes, on a team where his teammates actually pass him the ball, but he is softer than a marshmellow coated shitzu puppy, and Speights lol what the hell his this he ain't even better than JeVale let alone Marc Gasol

Lopez will be Yao Ming as I've said for awhile....Very similar rookie numbers too!

[dware94]

Marc Gasol is the true beast, Lopez puts up stats yes, on a team where his teammates actually pass him the ball, but he is softer than a marshmellow coated shitzu puppy, and Speights lol what the hell his this he ain't even better than JeVale let alone Marc Gasol

no doubt that you would bend over for marc gasol if given the oppurtunity:violin:

[gigantes]

No they are not. I dont know why people keep saying that.

Iggy and Lou were given new deals this past offseason. Ask yourself how.
if i knew how then maybe i wouldn't be worried about brand's contract. did that thought occur to you?

AI2's contract is not necessarily a good one, either.
they paid him top dollar but it's still not clear he's worth it.

williams is also probably overpaid, or at the very least has too long of a contract. i hardly see him as the successor to miller, yet that's how his contract is pretty-much structured.

[ChuckOakley]

Can't see anyone other then Beasley being the best big in this class, he's be putting up big numbers if he wasn't playing alongside D-Wade and having to play defense. Speights has more upside then B. Lopez though, Lopez's game is already very refined, he's just big, but very unathletic (shown by when he got blocked by Wade twice and Beasley on 3 succesive possessions) he doesn't have much room to improve imo.

Yes, it's very apparent that Brook a 20 y/o rookie (Speights is 21) does not have much room to improve at all. In fact Marc Gasol, who is 24, is already on the downside of his career.

[ZHAKIDD532]

Can't see anyone other then Beasley being the best big in this class, he's be putting up big numbers if he wasn't playing alongside D-Wade and having to play defense. Speights has more upside then B. Lopez though, Lopez's game is already very refined, he's just big, but very unathletic (shown by when he got blocked by Wade twice and Beasley on 3 succesive possessions) he doesn't have much room to improve imo.
Beasley is garbage. When the college season ended he was 6' 10, then when it got to the draft he was 6' 7, what is he now? He's undersized and plays no defense. He'll never get anywhere next to Wade.

Rose/Mayo/Lopez/Westbrook >>> Beasley at least.

Lopez is the big fundamental lite. He won't be as good as Duncan obviously, but he has a relatively similar game. He's going to be a 20/10 big soon and he'll be a perennial All-Star backing up Dwight every year.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Lopez is not better then Beasley. Neither is Westbrook so let me get that out the way first. Lopez is having a solid Rookie season but he still won't be an all star in my opinion. Speights will be better then Brook and so will Beasley so stop being a homer

[ZHAKIDD532]

Lopez is not better then Beasley. Neither is Westbrook so let me get that out the way first. Lopez is having a solid Rookie season but he still won't be an all star in my opinion. Speights will be better then Brook and so will Beasley so stop being a homer
Oh right. I'm the homer when you're the one referencing your brother's AAU team spouting how Speights will be better than Lopez because he had a good game against him pre-college...that really matters...

Beasley has talent, but so far he has shown nothing to make you think he's al All-Star, at least while he's on the Heat with Wade.

[gigantes]

Lopez is having a solid Rookie season but he still won't be an all star in my opinion.
are you on drugs?

[twolvesfan]

the hate Love gets on this board is amazing. well its not so much hate as people dont realize how good he is.

edit: if love would get 30 mpg he would be like a 12/12 guy and would be ROY

[2LeTTeRS]

Seeing Speights shine now is bittersweet as a Bobcats fan who already lost out on Brook Lopez. Speights is who we wanted when we traded back into the 1st round. Too bad the Sixers picked up and we ended up with Alexis Ajinca.


the hate Love gets on this board is amazing. well its not so much hate as people dont realize how good he is.

edit: if love would get 30 mpg he would be like a 12/12 guy and would be ROY
With Big Al hurt, he is starting now isn't he? And i doubt 12 and 12 would be even close to getting him ROY this year.

[twolvesfan]

Seeing Speights shine now is bittersweet as a Bobcats fan who already lost out on Brook Lopez. Speights is who we wanted when we traded back into the 1st round. Too bad the Sixers picked up and we ended up with Alexis Ajinca.


With Big Al hurt, he is starting now isn't he? And i doubt 12 and 12 would be even close to getting him ROY this year.
why wouldn't it? that would be the only rookie double double and no one else is really jaw droopingly good. and yes love is starting now so we will see if his success came from big al or if he can manage from the extra attention

[GOBB]

edit: if love would get 30 mpg he would be like a 12/12 guy and would be ROY

If Andre Miller jacked up 22 shots a game he avg 20ppg easily.

:rolleyes:

[GOBB]

if i knew how then maybe i wouldn't be worried about brand's contract. did that thought occur to you?

Maybe phrasing your replies where it doesnt come across as if you HAVE a clue would better suit you. Did that occur to you.


AI2's contract is not necessarily a good one, either.
they paid him top dollar but it's still not clear he's worth it

williams is also probably overpaid, or at the very least has too long of a contract. i hardly see him as the successor to miller, yet that's how his contract is pretty-much structured.

What those two got paid is irrelevant. Anyway Larry Bird Exception pretty much allows the Sixers to give Thad/Marresse thier loot without worrying about going over the salary cap. If Brands contract is going to affect anything it will be signing unrestricted free agents. And even with that its relatively unknown the state of the Sixers payroll 2yrs down the road.

[ChuckOakley]

Maybe phrasing your replies where it doesnt come across as if you HAVE a clue would better suit you. Did that occur to you.



What those two got paid is irrelevant. Anyway Larry Bird Exception pretty much allows the Sixers to give Thad/Marresse thier loot without worrying about going over the salary cap. If Brands contract is going to affect anything it will be signing unrestricted free agents. And even with that its relatively unknown the state of the Sixers payroll 2yrs down the road.

Sixers are somewhat strapped with Brand, Iggy and Lou for the next 4 years.
Next season they have a payroll around $57 w/o draft picks and of course w/o Andre Miller on the books.

The cap will be about $60m next season, so I think they could sign an MLE type player and resign Miller but the number to be more worried about will be the luxury tax which kicks in around $70 million which I don't think any teams want to surpass.

2012/2013 will be the last year of Brand, Iggy and Lou's deal. Those 3 contracts alone will be about $40m.

And yeah they may have Larry Bird Rights and be able to resign their own players, the question is will they?

[TMT]

In my opinion, Lopez and Hickson will pan out better than him.

[gigantes]

Maybe phrasing your replies where it doesnt come across as if you HAVE a clue would better suit you. Did that occur to you.
maybe trying to avoid being a total d0uchebag as usual would be in your favor.
or maybe not, based on your history.


What those two got paid is irrelevant. Anyway Larry Bird Exception pretty much allows the Sixers to give Thad/Marresse thier loot without worrying about going over the salary cap. If Brands contract is going to affect anything it will be signing unrestricted free agents. And even with that its relatively unknown the state of the Sixers payroll 2yrs down the road.
WTF does the larry bird exception have to do with the overall salary cap?

the sixers still have to manage the overall cap in order to continue to re-sign their good players, and the contracts of AI2, dalambert, williams and brand make it difficult.

exactly what universe do you live in which you think brand is worth keeping?

[twolvesfan]

If Andre Miller jacked up 22 shots a game he avg 20ppg easily.

:rolleyes:
you're an idiot. have you ever look at loves stats?

[GOBB]

And yeah they may have Larry Bird Rights and be able to resign their own players, the question is will they?

I'd like to think they would lock both up. But thats a ways away. Ya never know one of the two could be package to bring a better player/talent.


the sixers still have to manage the overall cap in order to continue to re-sign their good players, and the contracts of AI2, dalambert, williams and brand make it difficult.

No it wont. What those contracts do is make it difficult to add free agents. Resigning thier own in Thad and Marresse wont be difficult at all with Brand.

[GOBB]

you're an idiot. have you ever look at loves stats?

Yes but you missed the point which isnt surprising.

[sulsuvtut27]

[QUOTE=Posterize246]

I get what you're saying.
I just didn't get what this post above meant.
Or why you said you never said he would be a bust, when you clearly did.
Or why you did a mock draft with him going #3 to Minny and yet think he's a bust at #10 for NJ.

To me, it seems like your dislike for Stanford/Brook personally/that SUVSL poster or whatever his name is biases you, and now instead of admitting you were pretty much wrong about Brook, you're simply looking for a player on your own team to hype up and justify your statements about Lopez.

OWNED, BEST POST IN ISH HISTORY!!!!!

[twolvesfan]

Yes but you missed the point which isnt surprising.
you implied that by chucking he could obviously score more points but the thing is, is that love is not a chucker

[ZHAKIDD532]

Either way, this looks like an extremely deep draft. You're going to have a ton of perennial All-Stars out of this draft and a ton of good role players too.

[gigantes]

No it wont. What those contracts do is make it difficult to add free agents. Resigning thier own in Thad and Marresse wont be difficult at all with Brand.
well, sorry for the insult and i'll try to share your optimism.

maybe i'm just angry that cheeks had to take the fall for brand being a failure in the sixers' fast-paced style.
i still have difficulty seeing how it's going to be productive (do you?)

[sulsuvtut27]

Either way, this looks like an extremely deep draft. You're going to have a ton of perennial All-Stars out of this draft and a ton of good role players too.

Best avatar ever.

[ZHAKIDD532]

Best avatar ever.
That's not the first time I've heard that, thanks. I'm gonna try and find the picture I got it from, it was an article about Lopez I read.

[sulsuvtut27]

That's not the first time I've heard that, thanks. I'm gonna try and find the picture I got it from, it was an article about Lopez I read.

Lopez>Speights.

[ZHAKIDD532]

Lopez>Speights.
Oh definitely

And I found the article

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/2009/02/06/2009-02-06_california_kids_brook_lopez_and_ryan_and.html

Nice read about Lopez and Anderson

This is the pic:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/02/07/amd_brook-lopez.jpg

[sulsuvtut27]

Oh definitely

And I found the article

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/2009/02/06/2009-02-06_california_kids_brook_lopez_and_ryan_and.html

Nice read about Lopez and Anderson

This is the pic:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/02/07/amd_brook-lopez.jpg

That is a great photo of Brook.

I hate Ryan Anderson he was too good at Kal.

[ZHAKIDD532]

That is a great photo of Brook.

I hate Ryan Anderson he was too good at Kal.
I hadn't heard of Ryan Anderson until he got to NJ. They said during the draft he led the Pac-10 in scoring and was very surprised.

[sulsuvtut27]

I hadn't heard of Ryan Anderson until he got to NJ. They said during the draft he led the Pac-10 in scoring and was very surprised.

Yea he was great his last 2 years averaged around 20 PPG and was also one of the top rebounders in the PAC 10.

[GOBB]

you implied that by chucking he could obviously score more points but the thing is, is that love is not a chucker

No its pretty much saying fans tend to think more mins gurantees more production. Is it possible he avg that? Maybe so. To say he will is a bit silly. If he avg 35mpg what would he avg 16-16? And to say he would win ROY if he avg 30mpg 12ppg 12rpg over OJ Mayo or D.Rose? Cant buy it. My thing is you made it seem way too simple imo when its not. It wasnt to imply if he chucked he would avg that. Nah not at all. If bron avg 5 more mins than he does this season? I dont see a significant rise in his numbers. They could remain constant.


well, sorry for the insult and i'll try to share your optimism.

No problem, my apologies as well. I dont think paying Thad/Marreese is will be a problem. I think adding to the overall makeup of the team could be given Brand, Iggy's contracts. Brand was brought here as the missing piece so to speak. So I can see how you might not think he fits here and with that contract the Sixers cant get better or become legit contenders because adding better talent is going to be difficult given his huge deal.


maybe i'm just angry that cheeks had to take the fall for brand being a failure in the sixers' fast-paced style.

Understandable. Never really liked Mo Cheeks as a HC to take them to the next level myself. Think this team needs a more established, proven HC.


i still have difficulty seeing how it's going to be productive (do you?)

I'm unsure. I'd like to see Brand with this improved team Sixers have now. I dont have enough games to see if it can work or not. Chemstry, better shooting (like Sixers have now altho it could really improve more) is something I need to see. While the fast past style is enjoyable to watch in the postseason it doesnt work as well. I'd like to see a balance.

I really cant gauge if I feel the same way you about Brand fitting here. I mean just from what we saw it didnt seem to fit but I could see alot of issues/problems that if were corrected and improved would make him fit better. So I really am lookin forward to next season to really judge. Kinda give him a pass this year. I cant knock the contract offering. He was the better option imo to get. 5yr deal, 1 yr is down. 4 more to go. For 3yrs it'll be hard to move him trade wise. So we'll see.

[GOBB]

Lopez>Speights.

So far he has. But what would be said if both played the same mpg. Brook is playing twice the amount of minutes as Speights. Keep in mind Speights has Dalembert in front of him whereas Brook has no one.

I dont like Brook Lopez, you are well aware of that. But I will give him props for his play the last month. Still not fond of him as a rebounder.

[sulsuvtut27]

So far he has. But what would be said if both played the same mpg. Brook is playing twice the amount of minutes as Speights. Keep in mind Speights has Dalembert in front of him whereas Brook has no one.

I dont like Brook Lopez, you are well aware of that. But I will give him props for his play the last month. Still not fond of him as a rebounder.

It aint my fault that Speights sorry azz aint getting to play.

[twolvesfan]

So far he has. But what would be said if both played the same mpg. Brook is playing twice the amount of minutes as Speights. Keep in mind Speights has Dalembert in front of him whereas Brook has no one.

I dont like Brook Lopez, you are well aware of that. But I will give him props for his play the last month. Still not fond of him as a rebounder.
:oldlol:

[iggy>]

It aint my fault that Speights sorry azz aint getting to play.
yes it is your fault u prick, now stfu before i get angry. :mad:

[Posterize246]

Bump for his solid preseason!

7 games
21.6 mpg
13.7 ppg
8.4 rpg
.6 bpg
50 fg%
89 ft%

Includes 32 min/32 pt/12 reb/2 block and 17 min/14 point/10 reb/1 block games!! Here's to M-16 aka Mo Spiggity Speights aka Speights Da Boss! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXaqG2yrYxY) :cheers:

[Bigsmoke]

Brook Lopez is already a top 10 center in the league and you're talkng about this "Marreese Speights" guy?

[Dresta]

Dwight
Bynum
Oden
Shaq
Okafor
Perkins
Yao
Jefferson
Kaman
Nene

Thats 10 centres i'd rather have then Lopez right now. There are probably more.

[Darius]

Speights ain't going to pass Lopez. He doesn't have the size.

I like Speights but he needs to set his sights lower on Kevin Love... he could perhaps surpass him.

[The_Yearning]

Dwight
Bynum
Oden
Shaq
Okafor
Perkins
Yao
Jefferson
Kaman
Nene

Thats 10 centres i'd rather have then Lopez right now. There are probably more.

lmfao u must be a blazer fan. go cry pleassse

[Dresta]

No, i am not, also forgot Horford, Biedrins and Bogut.

[Styles p]

lol speights is going to be a animal. lol at phoenix taking robin lopez over speights.

[Spoken]

I'm at work right now so I can't link from youtube. Someone post that link of Marreese Speights AIRBALLING a dunk. The worst dunk attempt ever. But looks like he slimmed down this year, he'll be solid in a couple of years. Best in '08 draft? Possibly wasn't a great draft year.

[beasted86]

Dwight
Bynum
Oden
Shaq
Okafor
Perkins
Yao
Jefferson
Kaman
Nene

Thats 10 centres i'd rather have then Lopez right now. There are probably more.

Kaman? Okafor? Yao, who's injured and his career is in jeopardy?

You do realize Lopez just turned 21 in April, right?

[wang4three]

Kaman? Okafor? Yao, who's injured and his career is in jeopardy?

You do realize Lopez just turned 21 in April, right?

I'm surprised you didn't highlight Perkins. That guy clearly isn't a top billed center.

But overall I agree. I don't understand the Brook hate. Must be residual haters from when he was drafted.

[beasted86]

I'm surprised you didn't highlight Perkins. That guy clearly isn't a top billed center.

But overall I agree. I don't understand the Brook hate. Must be residual haters from when he was drafted.
I considered it... but Perkins is pretty much playing his role to perfection.

Because he defers to 3 future hall of famers doesn't mean he's any weaker than Brook.

[wang4three]

I considered it... but Perkins is pretty much playing his role to perfection.

Because he defers to 3 future hall of famers doesn't mean he's any weaker than Brook.

He plays a role cause that's all he can do. I'm pretty sure anyone in the league (outside of Boston homers) would prefer to add Brook next to KG than Perkins.

[obonpaxis]

I'm surprised you didn't highlight Perkins. That guy clearly isn't a top billed center.


He isn't "top-billed" but he's underrated by most. One of the best interior man-to-man defenders in the league right now.

Depending on what kind of 4 is on the roster, I could see choosing Perkins over Lopez.

[beasted86]

He plays a role cause that's all he can do. I'm pretty sure anyone in the league (outside of Boston homers) would prefer to add Brook next to KG than Perkins.

I wouldn't, and I'm not a Boston fan. Perkins is one of the best defensive Cs.

I don't know if Brooke would be ready to deliver the expectations if you swapped him out with Perk. His offense is better, but they don't really need offense out of him. And Brook doesn't have the upper body strength or experience Perkins does.

Perkins does what they ask him to do. Play as the 5th or 6th option. He has Pierce, KG, Allen, Rondo, and probably House ahead of him offensively. Don't knock him for playing his role on a contender consistently.

[Dasher]

He isn't "top-billed" but he's underrated by most. One of the best interior man-to-man defenders in the league right now.

Depending on what kind of 4 is on the roster, I could see choosing Perkins over Lopez.^Lopez himself is a good defender, and is the superior help defender of the two. I still stand behind my declaration of the Mareese Speights being The Player out of his draft.

[wang4three]

He isn't "top-billed" but he's underrated by most. One of the best interior man-to-man defenders in the league right now.

Depending on what kind of 4 is on the roster, I could see choosing Perkins over Lopez.

Brook is a top 5-10 center in the league, so when I say top billed, he's not in the class of Brook. And clearly isn't. He's a nice player, in the same way Tyrone Hill used to be a nice player but it'd be foolish to take him over Brook in any setting outside of wanting a team of mean looking players.

[wang4three]

I wouldn't, and I'm not a Boston fan. Perkins is one of the best defensive Cs.

Brook is a capable defender himself. He's long, he's strong, and he doesn't give up position. He gets same amount of rebounds, and the same amount of blocks, I don't understand what Perk really has on him. Even if it's intangible stats like man defense, it's nothing I think is all that special.



I don't know if Brooke would be ready to deliver the expectations if you swapped him out with Perk. His offense is better, but they don't really need offense out of him. And Brook doesn't have the upper body strength or experience Perkins does.

This is nonsense to me. If you can get efficient offense out of player, you would. You can't from Perkins so they don't. But if he could score as efficiently and easily as Brook does, they would run plays for him.



Perkins does what they ask him to do. Play as the 5th or 6th option. He has Pierce, KG, Allen, Rondo, and probably House ahead of him offensively. Don't knock him for playing his role on a contender consistently.

I'm not knocking him for playing his role. I'm knocking him because you're suggesting that he could be considered in Brook's level of talent and output when he clearly isn't. Perkins is a role player, Brook is a potential franchise player. How can you possibly say Brook is not easily more talented?

[kurple]

This isn't a Brook Lopez thread.

Anyways, great bump!

[beasted86]

Brook is a capable defender himself. He's long, he's strong, and he doesn't give up position. He gets same amount of rebounds, and the same amount of blocks, I don't understand what Perk really has on him. Even if it's intangible stats like man defense, it's nothing I think is all that special.



This is nonsense to me. If you can get efficient offense out of player, you would. You can't from Perkins so they don't. But if he could score as efficiently and easily as Brook does, they would run plays for him.



I'm not knocking him for playing his role. I'm knocking him because you're suggesting that he could be considered in Brook's level of talent and output when he clearly isn't. Perkins is a role player, Brook is a potential franchise player. How can you possibly say Brook is not easily more talented?

People seem to be sensitive on this board about players from their favorite team. So I'm not going to jump into another argument in this thread... but I just want to add 2 things:

1. Perkins shoots a higher FG% than Lopez does
2. I don't know how loose your interpretation of "franchise" player is... but Lopez probably won't ever be a franchise player (neither will Beasley BTW)... I'm not even sure if Harris is a franchise player at this point. To me a franchise player is undoubtedly a #1 o #2 option on most teams, and a top 10 player (Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dwight, Dirk, Paul, Carmelo, Duncan, Roy, etc..)

[Dasher]

^FG% without context can be deceiving.

[Bigsmoke]

Dwight
Bynum
Oden
Shaq
Okafor
Perkins
Yao
Jefferson
Kaman
Nene

Thats 10 centres i'd rather have then Lopez right now. There are probably more.

i respect your opinoin. I personally put Lopez ahead of those guys. I can see Lopez being ahead of Nene this coming up season..

[kurple]

i can see Lopez being ahead of Nene this coming up season..

i don't

[GOBB]

Outside of defense what does Perkins do or is capable of outside of that? I just never get a sense he is any more than a decent center who is physical and brings some interior low post defense.

And Speights not being able to compete with Lopez as far as being better? Laughable to say the least. When did Brook emerge as some :bowdown: stud? I missed the season. So please by all means enlighten me or PM Kblaze to make you a Brook Sheilds errrr Lopez video so I can see for myself.

Both showed flashes/glimpses and Lopez moreso based on situation. At the end of the day its early in thier careers to try and deny the two from being comparable. The funny part is while some wag thier finger at Speights vs Lopez since Speights aint in the same league for some odd reason. Those same people would argue Lopez is in the same league as Oden if those two were compared.

Lets smarten up. The best big from 08 has yet to be determined. We should all be able to agree to that.

[GOBB]

Brook Lopez is already a top 10 center in the league and you're talkng about this "Marreese Speights" guy?

I dont even care to show if he is or isnt a top 10 center. What I do want to get across is carrying a top 10 center label in todays game is weak. Thats a fact. How? The league isnt deep at such a position. The quality simply isnt there to brag about "top 10". At one point in his lame career you could argue Sammy was a top 10 Center. Its meaningless. There is a cutoff and a drastic drop. I mean the fact guys like Bynum and Oden can be percieved as top Centers in the NBA support my argument. 2 guys who really have proven or established themselves and whose careers are still based on "potential" being among the top centers in the NBA. Come on.

[wang4three]

People seem to be sensitive on this board about players from their favorite team.

Yes. I'll admit to my homerism at times, but it's clear to anyone I'm right here.


So I'm not going to jump into another argument in this thread... but I just want to add 2 things:

1. Perkins shoots a higher FG% than Lopez does

Wow he shoots higher playing with 3 highly skilled offensive weapons next to him and a playmaking point guard. And he does it taking nearly half as many shots as Brook does. Come on now, you're better than that.



2. I don't know how loose your interpretation of "franchise" player is...
but Lopez probably won't ever be a franchise player (neither will Beasley BTW)...

I'll acknowledge that may never be one, but he has the potential to be one, which is the wording I used. Perkins doesn't have the tag "potential" next to him so it's quite a level of difference.

[ChuckOakley]

The only Centers I would take over Brook are:
Dwight
Jefferson (though more of a PF)

Too close to call because of injuries vs. potential:
Oden
Bynum

Otherwise:
Shaq - too old
Yao - who knows when he will play again
Horford - too short, more of a PF
Bogut - too many injuries and unfulfilled promise
Barganani - no rebounding or shotblocking, more of a SF/PF on offense
Okafor - very underwhelming career with no team success so far
Kaman - injury plagued, tapped out potential?
Nene - injury plagued, much older
Biedrins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Perkins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Hawes - no
M.Gasol - nice player but not as much potential

That's not to say many of those centers couldn't have better seasons, but given the fact Lopez is a 21 y/o, 2nd year player I would expect that.

However, overall I think my ranking says more about the decline of the Center position in the NBA, than it does Brook's true talent.



Otherwise.. I really like Speights as well, and would love to have him at PF to compliment Brook.

[kurple]

If you are a contending team wouldn't you want Brook over all those guys..

[Bigsmoke]

I dont even care to show if he is or isnt a top 10 center. What I do want to get across is carrying a top 10 center label in todays game is weak. Thats a fact. How? The league isnt deep at such a position. The quality simply isnt there to brag about "top 10". At one point in his lame career you could argue Sammy was a top 10 Center. Its meaningless. There is a cutoff and a drastic drop. I mean the fact guys like Bynum and Oden can be percieved as top Centers in the NBA support my argument. 2 guys who really have proven or established themselves and whose careers are still based on "potential" being among the top centers in the NBA. Come on.

well... usually a center that was playing top 10 at their position their rookie season usually ends up having a better career than some guy off the bench

[GOBB]

The only Centers I would take over Brook are:
Dwight
Jefferson (though more of a PF)

Too close to call because of injuries vs. potential:
Oden
Bynum

Otherwise:
Shaq - too old
Yao - who knows when he will play again
Horford - too short, more of a PF
Bogut - too many injuries and unfulfilled promise
Barganani - no rebounding or shotblocking, more of a SF/PF on offense
Okafor - very underwhelming career with no team success so far
Kaman - injury plagued, tapped out potential?
Nene - injury plagued, much older
Biedrins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Perkins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Hawes - no
M.Gasol - nice player but not as much potential

That's not to say many of those centers couldn't have better seasons, but given the fact Lopez is a 21 y/o, 2nd year player I would expect that.

However, overall I think my ranking says more about the decline of the Center position in the NBA, than it does Brook's true talent.



Otherwise.. I really like Speights as well, and would love to have him at PF to compliment Brook.

Thats why saying so and so is a top 10 center just doesnt move me much. :oldlol:

And i'll never acknowledge Jefferson as a Center just as I dont Stoudemire.

[GOBB]

well... usually a center that was playing top 10 at their position their rookie season usually ends up having a better career than some guy off the bench

You lost me.

[Bigsmoke]

You lost me.

u said


I dont even care to show if he is or isnt a top 10 center. What I do want to get across is carrying a top 10 center label in todays game is weak. Thats a fact. How? The league isnt deep at such a position. The quality simply isnt there to brag about "top 10". At one point in his lame career you could argue Sammy was a top 10 Center. Its meaningless. There is a cutoff and a drastic drop. I mean the fact guys like Bynum and Oden can be percieved as top Centers in the NBA support my argument. 2 guys who really have proven or established themselves and whose careers are still based on "potential" being among the top centers in the NBA. Come on.

i said... guys with alot of talent early like Lopez usually end up with the more succuessful careers than someone who's not really catching anyones attention other than fans and family

[GOBB]

u said



i said... guys with alot of talent early like Lopez usually end up with the more succuessful careers than someone who's not really catching anyones attention

Whats your point :confusedshrug:

[Bigsmoke]

Whats your point :confusedshrug:

Lopez > Speights

Lopez = future of Big men in the game

[Styles p]

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4911
well seems like stefanski feels the same way we do about our young guys.

[NuggetsFan]

The only Centers I would take over Brook are:
Dwight
Jefferson (though more of a PF)

Too close to call because of injuries vs. potential:
Oden
Bynum

Otherwise:
Shaq - too old
Yao - who knows when he will play again
Horford - too short, more of a PF
Bogut - too many injuries and unfulfilled promise
Barganani - no rebounding or shotblocking, more of a SF/PF on offense
Okafor - very underwhelming career with no team success so far
Kaman - injury plagued, tapped out potential?
Nene - injury plagued, much older
Biedrins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Perkins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Hawes - no
M.Gasol - nice player but not as much potential

That's not to say many of those centers couldn't have better seasons, but given the fact Lopez is a 21 y/o, 2nd year player I would expect that.

However, overall I think my ranking says more about the decline of the Center position in the NBA, than it does Brook's true talent.



Otherwise.. I really like Speights as well, and would love to have him at PF to compliment Brook.

For the future .. but If you were looking for contend for a title next year that list would look different.

[Bigsmoke]

The only Centers I would take over Brook are:
Dwight
Jefferson (though more of a PF)

Too close to call because of injuries vs. potential:
Oden
Bynum

Otherwise:
Shaq - too old
Yao - who knows when he will play again
Horford - too short, more of a PF
Bogut - too many injuries and unfulfilled promise
Barganani - no rebounding or shotblocking, more of a SF/PF on offense
Okafor - very underwhelming career with no team success so far
Kaman - injury plagued, tapped out potential?
Nene - injury plagued, much older
Biedrins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Perkins - excellent role player, little potential for more
Hawes - no
M.Gasol - nice player but not as much potential

That's not to say many of those centers couldn't have better seasons, but given the fact Lopez is a 21 y/o, 2nd year player I would expect that.

However, overall I think my ranking says more about the decline of the Center position in the NBA, than it does Brook's true talent.



Otherwise.. I really like Speights as well, and would love to have him at PF to compliment Brook.

:cheers: :rockon:

[Dresta]

Kaman? Okafor? Yao, who's injured and his career is in jeopardy?

You do realize Lopez just turned 21 in April, right?
He said that Lopez wasa top 10 center, so i just listed 10 centers that i currently consider to be better, i also forgot a couple others. But i wasn't discussing future or potential or anything like that. Try reading posts in the context they're given next time.

[GOBB]

42min 23pts 14rbs for Brook Lopez
30mins 19pts 9rbs for Speights

[BankShot]

42min 23pts 14rbs for Brook Lopez
30mins 19pts 9rbs for Speights

Lopez: 0.548 points per minute, 0.333 rebounds per minute

Speights: 0.633 points per minute, 0.300 rebounds per minute

[GOBB]

Lopez: 0.548 points per minute, 0.333 rebounds per minute

Speights: 0.633 points per minute, 0.300 rebounds per minute

:roll:

:wtf:

[BankShot]

:roll:

:wtf:

I'm just breaking it down, so that their production can be compared regardless of their difference in playing time.

Initally, it seems as though Lopez far outplayed Speights, but when taking playing time into account its actually quite different.

[Showtime]

Lopez: 18 PPG, 7.7 REB, 1.7 AST, 2.3 BLK, 3.1 TOV

JT: 13.4 PPG, 10 REB, 3 AST, 1.3 BLK, 1 TOV

Speights: 14.4 PPG, 7 REB, 1 AST, 1 BLK, 1 TOV

Seems like Lopez and Thompson are as good or better than Speights produciton wise.

[wang4three]

Speights really impressed me tonight. His offensive game is just so smooth and I love that "always be getting mine" mentality he has. He's vicious on the offensive end.

[Styles p]

Lopez: 18 PPG, 7.7 REB, 1.7 AST, 2.3 BLK, 3.1 TOV

JT: 13.4 PPG, 10 REB, 3 AST, 1.3 BLK, 1 TOV

Speights: 14.4 PPG, 7 REB, 1 AST, 1 BLK, 1 TOV

Seems like Lopez and Thompson are as good or better than Speights produciton wise.

speights is #3 in the league in fg%

[Showtime]

speights is #3 in the league in fg%
Great. So if you need a scoring punch, he's your guy. But the other players rebound better, block shots better, pass better, etc etc.

[Styles p]

Great. So if you need a scoring punch, he's your guy. But the other players rebound better, block shots better, pass better, etc etc.

they also play more minutes.

[Showtime]

they also play more minutes.Well when he gets good enough that the team will give him more minutes, then maybe we can compare them.

[tontoz]

It is pretty funny that the Sixers paid so much for Brand to give them scoring down low. turns out they are getting it from a mid-1st round pick.

Can Speights play D? I haven't seen him but he can obviously score.

[Styles p]

Well when he gets good enough that the team will give him more minutes, then maybe we can compare them.

well if we had a bench of 3 people like the nets he would.

[iggy>]

speights is a beast on O, with a sweet jumper. if we gave him starters minutes his numbers would be eye popping.

[D-Rose]

What's up with Brand?? Is he not getting the minutes/touches? or is he just a much worse basketball player?

This guy needs a change of scenery...Brand for Deng??

[iggy>]

What's up with Brand?? Is he not getting the minutes/touches? or is he just a much worse basketball player?

This guy needs a change of scenery...Brand for Deng??
yea jordan is limiting brands minutes, he doesnt fit well with this sixers team. id take deng

[GOBB]

Well when he gets good enough that the team will give him more minutes, then maybe we can compare them.

The Kings and Nets do not have anyone in front of Brook Lopez or Jason Thompson where either have to worry about minutes. Speights does and it has little to do with your "when he gets good enough" argument. This season Speights has been getting Dalemberts and Brands minutes. You'll be hard pressed to find any coach not playing Dalembert/Brand all together. You just paid how much money to Elton Brand? Jason Thompson wouldnt take Brands starting spot. And I doubt Brook Lopez would take Dalemberts. Both players make too much money to sit them on the bench and given them "role player" minutes. Sammy does a good job getting designated to role player minutes when he gets into early foul trouble or f*cks up where the coach needs to make a change.

Obviously if you followed the Sixers, Nets and Kings? You be better informed when giving your opinion. Then maybe we can compare. Until then what are you saying? That you can google stats and compare? Brilliant.

[Showtime]

Obviously if you followed the Sixers, Nets and Kings? You be better informed when giving your opinion. Then maybe we can compare. Until then what are you saying? That you can google stats and compare? Brilliant.
It is my opinion that a coach should play the best players who give the team the best chance at winning. It's not my problem that the sixers coach doesn't play Speights because Brand got a fat contract. Some coaches feel that if the player is good enough, they can take that leap because they know they have some backing and they made the right choice. It's not my fault the coach doesn't think highly enough about Speights to risk upsetting the highly paid free agent acquisition. I agree that JT wouldn't get the starting spot over Brand either. It doesn't mean he's not better.

Point blank, Speights is not playing better overall than Lopez or JT. He just isn't right now. He's still getting around 30 minutes a game, so acting as if he's hamstrung by PT is a cop out. I'm not saying he's bad, just that there's no call for declaring him the best big of the draft at this point.

[GOBB]

It is pretty funny that the Sixers paid so much for Brand to give them scoring down low. turns out they are getting it from a mid-1st round pick.

Can Speights play D? I haven't seen him but he can obviously score.

He's an ok defender. I'd say inconsistentat this point in his early career. Defense really isnt something you mention early when discussing his game. When him and Brand are on the court? The one thing the Sixers lack defensively? Shotblocker. I'd say for now he looks more like an Amare Stoudemire caliber defender. Maybe he becomes more than that but thats all I see. Where his offense and rebounding prescence kinda overshadows his defense.

[GOBB]

It is my opinion that a coach should play the best players who give the team the best chance at winning.

Eddie Jordan does just that. Check out the Sixers or just casually observe a boxscore that highlights who is on the court in the 4th quarter especially under 4mins. You like some Sixers fans will question why that lineup is playing.

The big question among some fans and sportsmedia is "Why is Brand sitting out late in games? He's your big $$$$ player." and EJ responds he stuck with the lineup that he felt gave them the best chance at winning. Last night vs the Nets Brand was on the bench. Warmup suit, towel around the neck.

He only played 22mins. Now ask yourself where did the rest of his minutes go.


It's not my problem that the sixers coach doesn't play Speights because Brand got a fat contract. Some coaches feel that if the player is good enough, they can take that leap because they know they have some backing and they made the right choice. It's not my fault the coach doesn't think highly enough about Speights to risk upsetting the highly paid free agent acquisition.

Its your fault that you dont educate yourself on the things you are typing. Try it. You're being silly and unreasonable. Ontop of being wrong with these statements you're putting out there.

If Speights was in Sacremento instead of Jason Thompson? You would be typing "Its not my fault Jason doesnt get more minutes in Philly. If he was good enough he would.". I dont think you know what you are even saying.

:confusedshrug:

[The_Walrus]

When I saw this thread I tought to myself, there's no way in hell he made this call before/soon after the draft. That would have impressed me, and I know how much you care about impressing someone that rarely posts here.
I still give you props for saying this on january, though, especially because Speights was getting little love from people that don't follow the Sixers.

[Showtime]

Eddie Jordan does just that. Check out the Sixers or just casually observe a boxscore that highlights who is on the court in the 4th quarter especially under 4mins. You like some Sixers fans will question why that lineup is playing.

The big question among some fans and sportsmedia is "Why is Brand sitting out late in games? He's your big $$$$ player." and EJ responds he stuck with the lineup that he felt gave them the best chance at winning. Last night vs the Nets Brand was on the bench. Warmup suit, towel around the neck.

He only played 22mins. Now ask yourself where did the rest of his minutes go.

I'm glad you said that, because you are directly contradicting yourself. You tried to make the point earlier that Speights may not have better stats because he doesn't get enough time on the court compared to those other two players because of Brand playing ahead of him (JT and BL don't play behind anybody). But then you sink your own boat because he does get around 30 minutes a game while being on the floor when it matters, even going so far as to bench Brand late in games (which you pointed out). Try again.


Its your fault that you dont educate yourself on the things you are typing. Try it. You're being silly and unreasonable. Ontop of being wrong with these statements you're putting out there.

Says the guy who sinks his own points.


If Speights was in Sacremento instead of Jason Thompson? You would be typing "Its not my fault Jason doesnt get more minutes in Philly. If he was good enough he would.". I dont think you know what you are even saying.

:confusedshrug:
I clearly stated that if JT was in Speights' place, he wouldn't start over Brand either. But if he was better, then that's on the coach for not starting him, not the player. However, if said player was clearly better, then the coach might be more inclined to start him anyway or at least give him more minutes. So if said player was good enough, that should happen under a reasonable coach. My point is, the better the player, the easier it is for the coach to make that call. So you can't say that Speights can't get enough time because Brand is ahead of him and then turn around and say the coach plays him more despite Brand's presence.

My point is, which you can't seem to grasp, is that there's no way you can anoint Speights the best big of that draft just yet (let alone JT or BL). All 3 are on a comparable level, and none are definitively better than the others.

But maybe you should educate yourself. I would suggest you watch Lopez or JT play. JT is a better passer, period. He's not as talented of a scorer, but he can put up points off of his physical play and the extra possessions he gets from his superior rebounding.

So before you start calling somebody else uneducated, I would suggest two things:

1. Don't sink your own arguments.

2. Try taking your own advice. Watch other players before you declare one superior.

Remember, I said JT and Lopez were either at Speights level, or did things better than him. My point is that it's too early to say with any valid basis that Speights is superior to both JT and BL. And the burden of proof is on those who make that claim.

[Poodle]

Not better than Love or Lopez, but better than the others? I'll agree with that.

[Poodle]

He's an ok defender. I'd say inconsistentat this point in his early career. Defense really isnt something you mention early when discussing his game. When him and Brand are on the court? The one thing the Sixers lack defensively? Shotblocker. I'd say for now he looks more like an Amare Stoudemire caliber defender. Maybe he becomes more than that but thats all I see. Where his offense and rebounding prescence kinda overshadows his defense.

I watched the game last night and Brand looked terrible. Even with the added incentive to prove himself now thanks to media critics. His offensive game just sucks, and imo its always pretty much sucked. If he can't get a straight up shot or layup, he doesn't seem to have much else. His post moves end up hard shots.

In contrast Speights ends up in the right spots generally. He had 6 offensive boards from just being in the right place at the right time.

I pretty much agree with what Eddie Jordan is doing, even if he's taking a lot of flack for not playing and featuring Brand.

[GOBB]

I'm glad you said that, because you are directly contradicting yourself. You tried to make the point earlier that Speights may not have better stats because he doesn't get enough time on the court compared to those other two players because of Brand playing ahead of him. But then you sink your own boat because he does get around 30 minutes a game while being on the floor when it matters, even going so far as to bench Brand late in games (which you pointed out). Try again.

You're a dumbass.

Speights in 8gms avg 24mpg
J.Thompson in 8gms avg 34mpg
B.Lopez in 8gms avg 35mpg

So how is Speights going to get 11 more minutes per game genius? Dalembert/Brand play ahead of him. Oh I get it, lets borrow your MORONIC logic and say IF Speights was THAT GOOD he would get those 11 extra minutes. And even START.

Brook Lopez has no threats to start over him.
Jason Thompson has no threats to start over him.

If Jason Thompson were in Philly and Speights in Sac? Speights would be avg more minutes while Jason Thompson gets LESS. And then we take your MORONIC argument again and say "If Jason was THAT good he would get more MINUTES over Dalembert/Brand".

And there is a good chance if Brook Lopez was in Philly he might be coming off the bench. And we would be borrowing your MORONIC argument all over again.

Its simple. Your argument is if Speights was as good as Lopez/Thompson his stats would say so. But you dont care those two play more minutes in different situations. You see you ignore these things and present the weakest argument possible. Why? Who knows. I expect that from a 6th grader. To my knowledge you arent in the 6th grade.

Speights played 30mins in the NJ game. He doesnt avg 30 for the season dumbass. The only ship that sank was the one carrying your READING & COMPREHENSION books. For shame.

The reason I brought up Speights playing 30mins vs NJ was to show Eddie Jordan is not HESISTANT on sticking with a lineup he thinks would win. If it means Jason Smith, M.Speights, Carney, Iggy, W.Green? He'll run with it. Why? Because he feels at that point in time during the game? This group has shown they are the group that will get you closer to a win than previous lineups from earlier in the game.

Jmarten up kid.


I clearly stated that if JT was in Speights' place, he wouldn't start over Brand either. But if he was better, then that's on the coach, not the PLAYER.

This thread is highlighting Speights/Lopez, 2 young big man and in the future who will project to be better. When stats are used in thier infant stages? A knowledgable individual would consider all things. The fact you pretend situations and minutes have zero factor in why YOU rate things so elementary is comedy to me.

You posted thier stats then proceeded to tell people who did what better. Then when told thats because the minutes arent even for the 3? you say Speights must not be THAT good if he isnt getting thier minutes. Then when its mentioned Elton Brand is on the team? You say its the coaches job if he felt Speights was that good to start him over Brand.

No coach in the NBA would give Speights more minutes than Elton Brand. you dont pay a guy 80+mil last year and say we're going to let this kid get more minutes than you while you come off the bench. It doesnt happen.

So what are you babbling? Nothing. You dont even know much about the 3 players besides what was posted in here. But because you are wrong, proven by me. But because your statements have been exposed to be silly? You pull off this stubborn act refusing to be enlightened on the situations because you choose to remain ignorant. So now what? You'll enter future threads talkin out your ass? :confusedshrug:


However, if said player was clearly better, then the coach might be more inclined to start him anyway or at least give him more minutes. So if said player was good enough, that should happen under a reasonable coach.

No coach in the NBA would start Speights over Brand. And Speights having to be BETTER than Brand for him to be compared to 2 young bigs (Thompson/Lopez) is MORONIC. What does that have to do with anything?

I'll show you how you sound stupid. Put Speights on the Lakers. Hey guess what a-hole, Speights doesnt get the same minutes as Thompson/Lopez.

Showtime "If he was clearly better than Gasol or Bynum then he would be getting more minutes. Since he isnt, then he doesnt get more minutes. Therefore he isnt THAT good when you compare him to Lopez/Thompson who get MORE MINUTES."

*courtesy flush of your logic*

This thread is has 2 arguments. 1. Speights when its all said and done will be the best big from his class. 2. Speights vs Lopez

As of today? No one is right. Lopez vs Speights? Stalemate on who is better. You really cant say without a doubt either is better. And STATS DO NOT HELP YOUR CAUSE.

But you're babbling about what again? Huh? Whats that?


My point is, which you can't seem to grasp, is that there's no way you can anoint Speights the best big of that draft just yet.

Oh wow, what a remarkable theory there kid. Mensa member? :rolleyes:

Obviously this thread is based on projection. Same projection that had people say Lebron would be one of the best players in the NBA. Alas, it came true. Whether Speights becomes the best big when its all said and done? We'll see. This thread wasnt saying he is, rather he will. Just like you think team a would beat team b if they faced tonight.


But maybe you should educate yourself. I would suggest you watch Lopez or JT play. JT is a better passer, period. He's not as talented of a scorer, but he can put up points off of his physical play and the extra possessions he gets from his superior rebounding.

Thats the only thing JT is better than Speights at. Passing. Scoring? Rebounding? Shooting? Speights is better than JT at.

Showtime "but but but but he avg 10rpg how can speights be a better rebounder?"



Remember, I said Well when he gets good enough that the team will give him more minutes, then maybe we can compare them

Thats your argument genius after you posted stats then came to a conclusion who did what better based on STATS. Then when it was revealed the minutes werent even? You quicky ran for an argument instead of simply saying "You know that is true.".

Smarten up kid.

[tontoz]

I think it should be noted that per minute stats (assuming a legit sample size) are a very reliable way to project the production of young players when their minutes go up. In fact a young players per minute production generally goes up some when their minutes go up.

Speights per 36 of 22/10 look pretty good. Granted 8 games is a small sample size but he did pretty well last year too.

[mrhoopfan]

Brook Lopez is close to as good as Yao as a second year player

[Showtime]

Speights in 8gms avg 24mpg
J.Thompson in 8gms avg 34mpg
B.Lopez in 8gms avg 35mpg

So how is Speights going to get 11 more minutes per game genius? Dalembert/Brand play ahead of him. Oh I get it, lets borrow your MORONIC logic and say IF Speights was THAT GOOD he would get those 11 extra minutes. And even START.

Brook Lopez has no threats to start over him.
Jason Thompson has no threats to start over him.

And you continue to tank your own points. Do you even know the context of my post to which you initially responded? I was talking with styles about production and minutes. So you can't say that Speights is hamstrung by Brand playing over him and then say he gets the nod over Brand when it matters because he's better.

Let's look at his exchange:

-I say he doesn't get enough minutes because the coach doesn't think he's good enough to start over Brand.

-You respond by saying no other second year big would get that nod over Brand, even if they were better.

-I respond by saying that if that second year player was good enough, a reasonable coach wouldn't have a problem starting him because if the talent and production was there, then it wouldn't be a bad choice putting team first. It wouldn't be the first time.

-You respond by saying that the coach DOES give the nod to Speights by playing him at the end of games and benching Brand.

So which is it? Does the coach think he's good enough or not? You can't take both sides of the same argument. You can't say that Speights is sooo great that the coach benches Brand when it matters in favor of Speights, and then turn around and say that the coach doesn't trust Speights's ability enough to play over Brand because he's too worried about the perception of bringing Brand's paycheck off the bench. Either he does, or he doesn't.


And there is a good chance if Brook Lopez was in Philly he might be coming off the bench. And we would be borrowing your MORONIC argument all over again.

Oh yes, Lopez would be considered better than Sammy because the coach would trust him at the end of games over Sammy, and yet worse at the same time because coach doesn't trust him to start over Sammy. Nice logic there.


Its simple. Your argument is if Speights was as good as Lopez/Thompson his stats would say so.

No. My argument is that there is nothing definitive about what Spreights is doing to say he's better than the other two. YOU and others in this thread are making a claim which YOU must support. You have the burden of proof, not me.


But you dont care those two play more minutes in different situations.

It's not about just minutes, but ability and production. Speights in his limited minutes produces a comparable amount to player who play more. That's impressive, but it doesn't mean he's superior in every category. You want to dismiss the possibility that those other two players can do things better than Speights based on his limited minutes alone. So the only person who is basing their argument in stats alone is YOU.

You don't even want to think that Lopez might be a better shot blocker, or that JT is the better rebounder or passer, because you don't care how they play and what they can do, you only want to say that Speights can do everything better if only he got the same PT.

It's clear you are just a philly homer who thinks Speights is superior if only he got the same minutes. I, however, have enough of an open mind to not make any claims about who is best or might be the best until more develops down the road, because I DO consider the differences in their situations. Sorry kid.

[GOBB]

I think it should be noted that per minute stats (assuming a legit sample size) are a very reliable way to project the production of young players when their minutes go up. In fact a young players per minute production generally goes up some when their minutes go up.

Speights per 36 of 22/10 look pretty good. Granted 8 games is a small sample size but he did pretty well last year too.

Send that memo to Showtime.

[incxpinoy]

i actually called this during pre season and i still believe it

first page :applause:

[Showtime]

Send that memo to Showtime.
Or try reason and reading comprehension. I said Speights puts up comparable production to players who play more minutes. But that doesn't automatically mean he is more skilled and productive in every area. You can't just use his minutes as an excuse to say he's a better rebounder than Player A, or a better passer than Player B, if only he played more. You are using minutes as an excuse, because you think he can do everything better if he played more. You refuse to consider that other players may just be better in some areas of the game.

[GOBB]

Or try reason and reading comprehension. I said Speights puts up comparable production to players who play more minutes. But that doesn't automatically mean he is more skilled and productive in every area. You can't just use his minutes as an excuse to say he's a better rebounder than Player A, or a better passer than Player B, if only he played more. You are using minutes as an excuse, because you think he can do everything better if he played more. You refuse to consider that other players may just be better in some areas of the game.

I never used stats to base my argument on anything kid. Reread. You posted 3 players stats. Someone mentioned Speights doesnt play as many minutes as the other two based on his situation. Then you went into a big babble.

You never broke down any of thier games because you're incapable. You said JT is a better passer. And thats based on stats. Dont lie because you will not sit there and tell me you're watched and evaluated JT. You said little to nothing in support of Brook Lopez. No need to reply why and most likely you'l say he is a better shotblocker...based on stats. Dont lie because you will not sit there and tell me you've watched and evaluated JT. What do you know about Speights outside of what other people tell you? Not much. How can you say what Speights does better or not when you havent watched him much this year? Oh i get it, this is all based on last year. Uh huh.

So dont sit there and trying to BS me like you have a very good understanding of all 3 young bigs. You dont. Thats been exposed.

And I'm not here to prove Speights IS the best big man in that draft. As I said before its wait and see. And before you ask why did i enter it posting gamestats? It was for those in this thread who feel Brook Lopez is clearly better than Speights. I'm here to say thats not true. People can choose Lopez over Speights for various reasons but do not say he is clearly better. Only reason I bumped this thread. And I give Lopez props because I've never been much of a fan but he kills the Sixers.

Now if I asked you to break down all 3 defensively? You couldnt do it.
If I asked you who defended who better last night (lopez/speights)? You have no clue if they guarded each other or anything.

Jason Thompson defensively? Blocking shots? Help defense? Interior defense?

Dont worry these arent questions moreso to make you look silly. You have no basis to form your opinion on these 3. So educate yourself then try to fool me another time kid. :rolleyes:

[Showtime]

You never broke down any of thier games because you're incapable. You said JT is a better passer. And thats based on stats.

You act as if stats are meaningless because their only factor is minutes played. Guess what: stats are just recording of specific events. While minutes do have an effect, they are not the only factor. A player's ability and performance on the court is also a factor, because you can't get a rebound if you don't actually rebound, or get an assist if you don't actually pass the ball, etc etc. You, however, reject the validity of every stat that doesn't assist your position by using the excuse of minutes while accepting certain stats that do support your position.

For example, you seem to be in favor of tontoz post about statistics that consider minutes played. OK, let's look at some:

Speights and JT rebound at a very close per 36 minute rate (10.6 v 10.5).
Speights scores at a better rate (22.3 v 14).
But Speights rarely gets assists (1 v 3).

To you, minutes are the only factor, because you use them as an excuse. If I say that Speights is more gifted offensively, and that his game is more oriented in scoring compared to Thompson, am I wrong? When I say JT is more productive in sharing the basketball, and not an inferior rebounder, am I wrong? You said I am. But that's not what your per 36 stats say, nor what their styles and abilities show on the court.


Dont lie because you will not sit there and tell me you're watched and evaluated JT. You said little to nothing in support of Brook Lopez. No need to reply why and most likely you'l say he is a better shotblocker...based on stats. Dont lie because you will not sit there and tell me you've watched and evaluated JT. What do you know about Speights outside of what other people tell you? Not much. How can you say what Speights does better or not when you havent watched him much this year? Oh i get it, this is all based on last year. Uh huh.

Ok, tell me this: if your opinion is actually based on evaluation of all 3 players, then why have you only come at me with an argument based upon minutes?

I talk about production and style, and you come at me with minutes.


So dont sit there and trying to BS me like you have a very good understanding of all 3 young bigs. You dont. Thats been exposed.

I'm not sitting here saying I've seen every game from each player this season. What I am saying is that I have seen enough to be able to deduce that some players can do things better than others, and that there is no player out of the 3 that is definitively superior to the others.


And I'm not here to prove Speights IS the best big man in that draft. As I said before its wait and see.

Then WTF are you arguing with me about? That's been my position throughout this entire thread.

[Posterize246]

Some people are having trouble grasping the part about "will be" and the fact that this is an opinion. The fact that "will be" is right in the title should throw out all that stuff about "nunt uh look what they're doing right now idiot!".

1996 ISH:

Title of thread: Kobe Bryant will be the best 2 guard to come from the '96 draft.

ISH response: Nunt uh look at what Ray Allen is doing! How can you even compare the 2?! If Kobe was so good why can't his dumbass coach recognize it and give him minutes over Eddie Jones? ROFL


Remember, it's just an opinion about the FUTURE. If you're going to argue against it, tell us what Speights can't do, what guys like Love/Lopez/Thompson can do 10x better than him that he'll never be capable of, why you'd rather have a C than a PF, whatever. Talking about what they're doing in their respective situations now is pointless.

[G-train]

Numbers aside, Lopez seems to have more polish to his offensive game than Speights. And obviously he is bigger yet still mobile.

Anyway if Beasley is considered a big (which the OP states) I believe he will be the best, and easily. Just judging off his current abilities and where I can see him already growing.

[iggy>]

Some people are having trouble grasping the part about "will be" and the fact that this is an opinion. The fact that "will be" is right in the title should throw out all that stuff about "nunt uh look what they're doing right now idiot!".

1996 ISH:

Title of thread: Kobe Bryant will be the best 2 guard to come from the '96 draft.

ISH response: Nunt uh look at what Ray Allen is doing! How can you even compare the 2?! If Kobe was so good why can't his dumbass coach recognize it and give him minutes over Eddie Jones? ROFL


Remember, it's just an opinion about the FUTURE. If you're going to argue against it, tell us what Speights can't do, what guys like Love/Lopez/Thompson can do 10x better than him that he'll never be capable of, why you'd rather have a C than a PF, whatever. Talking about what they're doing in their respective situations now is pointless.
speights is better than both lopez and jt right now. he will prove it when he gets more minutes.

[GOBB]

Speights is great

[Styles p]

Speights is great

def this guy balls as u can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdaabI6z7U

[twolvesfan]

Kevin Love:cheers: