Could Iverson cross a Prime Jordan?

[MaxFly]

http://imgserv2.imagehigh.com/imgss/4040911_gif%20ivoxxxxjordan.gif

Mostly everyone remembers the famous crossover, but would Iverson have been able to do that to a Prime Jordan, and did Jordan face any players from his generation that could do that to him?

[Y2Gezee]

Yeah. Really there's nobody that can stick with A.I. for an entire game one on one. He's going to get burned bad atleast once. That goes for pretty much every great offensive player

[Carbine]

Iverson also sank the shot after he crossed him up.

One of the shining moments in Iverson' career.

[IGGYIVERSON]

i think he couldve gotten prime MJ at least once.

when it comes down to it, its like a highschool kid trying to stop a 5th grader from running past him. Jordan is at least half a foot taller and 45 pounds heavier.

[RidonKs]

Great offense beats great defense on the perimeter every time. I think all of the elite swingmen could get by Jordan more than once had they played back in the day. It's just the way it is.

[IGGYIVERSON]

Great offense beats great defense on the perimeter every time. I think all of the elite swingmen could get by Jordan more than once had they played back in the day. It's just the way it is.

i agree. i think we'd also see vice versa. Bird, Dominique, Alex English, all lighting up today's Artests and Bowens.

[tontoz]

A better question would be is there any player that a young Iverson couldn't cross over, or beat off the dribble with regularity. Nobody springs to mind.

Iverson was a freak when he was young. He still is really.

[Carbine]

I think all of the elite swingmen could get by Jordan more than once had they played back in the day. It's just the way it is.

True.

But that doesn't take away from Jordans' defensive game. The offensive player may shake him once in a while, but for a whole 48 minutes? Jordan will frustrate the offensive player into a poor fg% on most occasions.

[IGGYIVERSON]

A better question would be is there any player that a young Iverson couldn't cross over, or beat off the dribble with regularity. Nobody springs to mind.

Iverson was really a freak when he was young. He still is really.

ill sound like a homer because of my name but i agree.

theres certain players who are just unstoppable at certain things in a legendary manner.

[RidonKs]

True.

But that doesn't take away from Jordans' defensive game. The offensive player may shake him once in a while, but for a whole 48 minutes? Jordan will frustrate the offensive player into a poor fg% on most occasions.

Yeah, no doubt about that. But Artest and Bowen can do that as well.

I was responding to Iggy, who said that Iverson MIGHT only get by Jordan ONCE, if they played together in MJ's prime. That's just plain wrong.

[IGGYIVERSON]

Yeah, no doubt about that. But Artest and Bowen can do that as well.

I was responding to Iggy, who said that Iverson MIGHT only get by Jordan ONCE, if they played together in MJ's prime. That's just plain wrong.

you clearly took "once" in a negative manner. i was saying it in a positive manner as in "he'd be able to do it at least once. he could get by MJ." not in a "well maybe he'd do it once if he got lucky..."

[xxxSuperStar]

I'm the biggest Jordan homer and I have to say yes. Iverson was much quicker both in their primes.

However, if they were guarding each other one on one MJ would score 50 with much less effort as he'd just post up every single time.

[RidonKs]

you clearly took "once" in a negative manner. i was saying it in a positive manner as in "he'd be able to do it at least once. he could get by MJ." not in a "well maybe he'd do it once if he got lucky..."

Oh okay, then we're agreed. When you posted this...


i think he couldve gotten prime MJ at least once

I thought you meant that it'd be a really rare occurance. But w/e. We're all agreed.

[TheHonestTruth]

Yes. Definitely.

[The Mamba]

God Damn Iverson rocked the sh 1t out of Mike. Jesus christ, that's the best angle of it I ever seen. Saving as we speak. As for your question, hell yeah Ivo could rock anyone.

[The Mamba]

Jordan wasn't slow in '96, '97, '98. Slow on Jordan is what he was during his second comeback. Jordan was still an elite defender in the late 90's. He just got rocked hard. Happens to the best of us.

[MaxFly]

The reason that I asked this question is that I've never seen Jordan get left behind like that by anyone else, not to mention that easily... It looked almost effortless on Iverson's part. So I was wondering whether you guys though that it's only a result of Jordan's age, that even if Jordan were younger, he'd still get left behind, or a happy medium.

[bigkingsfan]

You can find ballers everywhere that can cross over an elite NBA player.

[MaxFly]

You can find ballers everywhere that can cross over an elite NBA player.

But this is the GOAT...

[The Mamba]

Not just an elite NBA player, the GOAT. Iverson would get by Jordan regardless. Isiah got by Mike alot, and he is similar to Iverson.

[shadow]

Iverson has one of the best crossovers. He could get by MJ or any great defender multiple times. Just because its MJ doesn't mean he can't get beat. The guy is human, bigger than iverson and most importantly slower!

[Knoe Itawl]

The reason that I asked this question is that I've never seen Jordan get left behind like that by anyone else, not to mention that easily... It looked almost effortless on Iverson's part. So I was wondering whether you guys though that it's only a result of Jordan's age, that even if Jordan were younger, he'd still get left behind, or a happy medium.

The NBA is an 82 game season, plus playoffs. A starter especially one of Jordan's calibre, can lodge 40+ minutes a game. Given the sheer amount of time played, and the number of posessions there are for the opposing team, of course a great offensive player is going to eventually shake even the greatest of defenders. The key is that it won't happen to a great defender very often.

As many times as Philly played the Bulls during the season, and the amount of times Iverson has the ball in his hand in those games, it's not that surprising he would catch MJ even several times. Given these facts, I've always thought the big deal people made out of that move was overexaggeration. Don't get me wrong, it was a beautiful move, shook MJ and all that, but is that one move in a regular season game a career defining moment? Absurd, IMO.

I don't mean this in a negative way like most who chant "Do you play ball", but I'm curious as to how much you play. I just think that when you play a lot of ball, you see all kinds of things like the slow kid lucking out and putting a move on the neighborhood star (not saying Iverson's move was lukcy by any stretch but you get my point).

[bigkingsfan]

Hot Sauce could crossover Jordan, any street baller with a mean crossover could.

[StarJordan]

Spud Webb slipped through Mike once or twice also. Its not a big deal in the context of a 48 minute team set up. But forget prime, one on one Jordan would handily beat him (MJ went on to win the scoring title not iverson that year).

[StarJordan]

Jordan wasn't slow in '96, '97, '98

He wasn't slow but he was a different player than he was when he made his name. He wasn't doing tomohawks like this:

http://www.jordanextreme.com/favouritedunk3/photos/87LAMemorialSportsArenaQuintinDailey.jpg

[MaxFly]

I don't mean this in a negative way like most who chant "Do you play ball", but I'm curious as to how much you play. I just think that when you play a lot of ball, you see all kinds of things like the slow kid lucking out and putting a move on the neighborhood star (not saying Iverson's move was lukcy by any stretch but you get my point).

I've played and still play a lot of ball. I've seen people get lucky and pull a move... It's happened to me. The question wasn't whether Iverson got lucky, or whether this was bound to happen because of the amount of time Jordan played, the amount of possessions the opposing team had the ball, the amont of time Iverson had the ball in his hands, etc... etc... I'm not asking if this was a perfect storm or an inevitable occurrence. The question was whether people think Jordan got burned that badly because of his age at the time, or whether age is negligible.

[Knoe Itawl]

I've played and still play a lot of ball. I've seen people get lucky and pull a move... It's happened to me. The question wasn't whether Iverson got lucky, or whether this was bound to happen because of the amount of time Jordan played, the amount of possessions the opposing team had the ball, the amont of time Iverson had the ball in his hands, etc... etc... I'm not asking if this was a perfect storm or an inevitable occurrence. The question was whether people think Jordan got burned that badly because of his age at the time, or whether age is negligible.

It may have been harder to pull on a younger Jordan, but given all the factors I outlined, it could happen to him at any age.

[eliteballer]

Wasn't Jordan only like 32 when that happened. Dude wasn't ancient.

[hateraid]

But he's the "GOAT"
He can play goalie for the Blackhawks and break the shoutout record
He can catch a bullet with his bare hands
He has the ability to see into the immediate future and see the play before it happens
:rollingeyes:
Why is it because of this GOAT status all of a sudden he's the best on the ball defender ever to play, so good he can't be crossed up or get blown by. Reality check guys, he's a basketball player. An argument of "he's the GOAT" is not a valid enough of an argument.

[LakersDynasty]

But he's the "GOAT"
He can play goalie for the Blackhawks and break the shoutout record
He can catch a bullet with his bare hands
He has the ability to see into the immediate future and see the play before it happens
:rollingeyes:
Why is it because of this GOAT status all of a sudden he's the best on the ball defender ever to play, so good he can't be crossed up or get blown by. Reality check guys, he's a basketball player. An argument of "he's the GOAT" is not a valid enough of an argument.
Tell it like it is, couldn't agree more.

[The Mamba]

He wasn't slow but he was a different player than he was when he made his name.
Who was saying different? Jordan, with fresh legs, prime or not, could get crossed by A.I. on ANY given play. Iverson is just that good with the ball, and with his moves. Jumping ability, age, plays no part in getting shook with a crossover. I know plenty of older guys who hang better with people who move like that, cause they are less likely to bite on fakes. The part that made it so sick was, MJ bit on the set up criss cross, so that was emberassing enough, then MJ gets absolutely busted on the second one. It was a great play. Probably the most famous crossover in the modern era.

[Vragrant]

That crossover is so overrated. Fact is that Jordan played great defense on that play.

That original clip does not show Jordan quickly recovering to not only challenge the shot, but come within fractions of a second to block it.

I admit I'm biased, but hey I just don't see what was so great about the crossover. People act like Jordan fell or something. I find it pretty fascinatin actually at the reflexes of that version of Jordan. Look how quickly Jordan reacted to his first move(although the slow motion doesn't do it justice), If Iverson didn't cross over Jordan would have cut off his drive.

I will say this though. As great as Iverson is, give Jordan a playoff series and I think Mike will make things REALLY difficult for Iverson. Iverson has no stamina advantage over a young Jordan either, so I could see Mike hounding Iverson into horrific shooting games once he adjusts to Iverson.

[DaHeezy]

That crossover is so overrated. Fact is that Jordan played great defense on that play.

That original clip does not show Jordan quickly recovering to not only challenge the shot, but come within fractions of a second to block it.

I admit I'm biased, but hey I just don't see what was so great about the crossover. People act like Jordan fell or something. I find it pretty fascinatin actually at the reflexes of that version of Jordan. Look how quickly Jordan reacted to his first move(although the slow motion doesn't do it justice), If Iverson didn't cross over Jordan would have cut off his drive.

I will say this though. As great as Iverson is, give Jordan a playoff series and I think Mike will make things REALLY difficult for Iverson. Iverson has no stamina advantage over a young Jordan either, so I could see Mike hounding Iverson into horrific shooting games once he adjusts to Iverson.

Are you kidding? AI literally made him dance. Jordan fans will do anything to protect his image. If AI literally broke MJ's ankles, MJ fans would say,"That was nothing special, Jordan wanted to have a one year rest." If he pulled that move on Kobe, it would be the play of the century to the same people. Jordan fans have surpassed Kobe fans in being delusional.

[MaxFly]

That crossover is so overrated. Fact is that Jordan played great defense on that play.

That original clip does not show Jordan quickly recovering to not only challenge the shot, but come within fractions of a second to block it.

I admit I'm biased, but hey I just don't see what was so great about the crossover. People act like Jordan fell or something. I find it pretty fascinatin actually at the reflexes of that version of Jordan. Look how quickly Jordan reacted to his first move(although the slow motion doesn't do it justice), If Iverson didn't cross over Jordan would have cut off his drive.

I will say this though. As great as Iverson is, give Jordan a playoff series and I think Mike will make things REALLY difficult for Iverson. Iverson has no stamina advantage over a young Jordan either, so I could see Mike hounding Iverson into horrific shooting games once he adjusts to Iverson.

It was a fantastic crossover... and if you look at the whole play, Iverson crossed him twice... The only reason Jordan had a chance at blocking the shot is that Iverson halted his drive and shot it, but if Iverson had driven it in, Jordan would have been behind him. To Jordan's credit, he reacted pretty quickly, but then again, it only resulted in having the shot hit on him. He got crossed and then had the shot hit on him; you have to give props to Iverson. I don't see why people are trying to dismiss it or call it overrated. How many players managed to cross Jordan like that, leaving him completely lost for a split second?

[SRZ66]

That crossover is so overrated. Fact is that Jordan played great defense on that play.

That original clip does not show Jordan quickly recovering to not only challenge the shot, but come within fractions of a second to block it.

I admit I'm biased, but hey I just don't see what was so great about the crossover. People act like Jordan fell or something. I find it pretty fascinatin actually at the reflexes of that version of Jordan. Look how quickly Jordan reacted to his first move(although the slow motion doesn't do it justice), If Iverson didn't cross over Jordan would have cut off his drive.

I will say this though. As great as Iverson is, give Jordan a playoff series and I think Mike will make things REALLY difficult for Iverson. Iverson has no stamina advantage over a young Jordan either, so I could see Mike hounding Iverson into horrific shooting games once he adjusts to Iverson.
i agree, jordan did almost block it. people act like jordan fell over, iverson did a little dance, and then flinged up some sexy hook shot for a swish...although i do believe that ai could probably cross up jordan / anyone anytime he felt like it

[Skywalker]

It was actually a carry. MJ's D could stop almost everyone if the refs weren't blind, and actually called illiegal plays.

[DaHeezy]

It was actually a carry. MJ's D could stop almost everyone if the refs weren't blind, and actually called illiegal plays.

:banghead:

[Vragrant]

It was a fantastic crossover... and if you look at the whole play, Iverson crossed him twice... The only reason Jordan had a chance at blocking the shot is that Iverson halted his drive and shot it, but if Iverson had driven it in, Jordan would have been behind him. To Jordan's credit, he reacted pretty quickly, but then again, it only resulted in having the shot hit on him. He got crossed and then had the shot hit on him; you have to give props to Iverson. I don't see why people are trying to dismiss it or call it overrated. How many players managed to cross Jordan like that, leaving him completely lost for a split second?

I'm not saying it wasn't a great crossover because it was. I just don't think its as bad as most fans think.

Bad is something like Wade crossing over Eric Snow, and Snow falling to the ground several feet awa6 from him. Iverson got him, however Jordan kept his balance recovered quickly and got a hand in a face.

If Jordan stumbled, fell or something THAT would be embarrassing I would admit.

[GOBB]

MJ got his ankles broken twice and a jumper in his FACE. That was one for the ages. It rates highly because of who it was done too. The almighty one Jordan. He got rocked to sleep. Not many in the world or in the history of basketball can say "I broke MJ's ankles and shot a jumper in his MUG after he tried to recover whatever pride, dignity he had to block my shot". If that play didnt happen and someone typed that....we would say that person was on drugs. But it did happen. There is no moral victory for MJ. Whenener MJ embarrasses someone with a dunk, game winner, block, steal its all glorified and entrenched in apart of his legacy.

AI served MJ and he would serve him no matter WHAT age. MJ could feel his very best and AI would snap them ankles. You cant stop that crossover. AI knew how to pull it off and with his quickness blow by you and/or pop the jumper. He's perfected it. Tim Hardaway killa crossover would have done the same to MJ, prime MJ, Jesus Christ MJ you name it.

I til this day cringe when i saw Pippen trying to guard Kobe Bryant and Kobe had his way with him. Crossovers, blowing by, jumper he eve did the MJ move where his back was to the basket, flinched one way then back then back & popped the jumper in Pippen's grill. You know the move. It was like wow he is totally shredding and embarrassing my fav player/defender of all time. :(

MJ got embarrassed. I loved it. :applause:

[GOBB]

I'm not saying it wasn't a great crossover because it was. I just don't think its as bad as most fans think.

Bad is something like Wade crossing over Eric Snow, and Snow falling to the ground several feet awa6 from him. Iverson got him, however Jordan kept his balance recovered quickly and got a hand in a face.

If Jordan stumbled, fell or something THAT would be embarrassing I would admit.


Hmmm *looks at avatar* I wonder WHY you dont think it was bad. Get a clue kid. MJ took it upon himself to defend AI. AI rocked him once and MJ body took the bait. Go to youtube and get a much better angle if you want. MJ RESET in his defensive position and AI shook the shiiit out of him as MJ went the wrong way AGAIN, tried to recover and block AI shot and failed. SWISH.


But yeah its not as bad as people make it out to be. You must be one of the FEW who feel such a ridiculous way. :rolleyes:

[StarJordan]

Hmmm *looks at avatar* I wonder WHY you dont think it was bad. Get a clue kid. MJ took it upon himself to defend AI. AI rocked him once and MJ body took the bait. Go to youtube and get a much better angle if you want. MJ RESET in his defensive position and AI shook the shiiit out of him as MJ went the wrong way AGAIN, tried to recover and block AI shot and failed. SWISH.

Uh huh, watch the video. When Iverson releases the ball, MJ is already in the air no more than a couple inches away from BLOCKING it even AFTER the crossover.

[bigkingsfan]

Who cares, MJ got shook up. Does anyone ever mention about Jordan pushing off Byron Russel for the game winner?

[pgm]

It was actually a carry. MJ's D could stop almost everyone if the refs weren't blind, and actually called illiegal plays.

I don't think a Jordan fan should be talking about another player getting preferential treatment from the refs (unless he's trying to be ironic).

That crossover is a little overrated in the sense that it's not close to being Iverson's best crossover. But there's no question that Iverson would have been able to cross a Prime Jordan. It's not like the Jordan he crossed sucked. He did make the All NBA First Defensive Team.

[StarJordan]

Who cares, MJ got shook up.

Iverson got loose for a fraction of a second. He couldn't make Jordan fall or lose trail. Watch some highlights of kings game where Mike holds the ball in one hand like he's about to shoot it and fakes the lights out of the guy who falls on his ass. THAT's getting shook up!

[The Answer]

Even Michael Jordan makes mistakes. That doesn't mean he isnt the GOAT.

[ppierce34]

Iverson got loose for a fraction of a second. He couldn't make Jordan fall or lose trail. Watch some highlights of kings game where Mike holds the ball in one hand like he's about to shoot it and fakes the lights out of the guy who falls on his ass. THAT's getting shook up!

He got shook sunshine. Doesn't take anything away, it happens to everyone. After AI broke down Daniels and made him fall twice, Daniels actually got AI. No shame in it. If AI doesn't pull up for the jumper, MJ is standing still watching AI drive to the basket or chasing him to the basket.

[StarJordan]

I don't think a Jordan fan should be talking about another player getting preferential treatment from the refs (unless he's trying to be ironic).

If you watch the video, MJ has his hands and palms at the 45 degre angle. That's just solid fundamental defensive posture. You can't play it any better than that from a defensive standpoint.

[bigkingsfan]

Where's the footage? The crossover wasn't a mainstream move until late 90's. There's not doubt if Jordan was playing today, he get shaken up regularly by guys like Kobe, Wade, Iverson... etc.

[AirGauge23]

Where's the footage? The crossover wasn't a mainstream move until late 90's. There's not doubt if Jordan was playing today, he get shaken up regularly by guys like Kobe, Wade, Iverson... etc.

And he'd do the same to them, goes both ways.

[lakers-city]

yeah, it goes both ways, jordan wasnt some mistycal unnatural force who was protected by the gods from crossovers.

[MaxFly]

I'm not saying it wasn't a great crossover because it was. I just don't think its as bad as most fans think.

Bad is something like Wade crossing over Eric Snow, and Snow falling to the ground several feet awa6 from him. Iverson got him, however Jordan kept his balance recovered quickly and got a hand in a face.

If Jordan stumbled, fell or something THAT would be embarrassing I would admit.

Well you have to take the good with the bad. People have built Jordan up so much in their minds that everything about him will be overstated, whether it's positive or negative. Many believe that Jordan is the best defensive wing player to every play and could lock anyone down anyone, anytime he felt like it. When people believe things like that, what Iverson did to Jordan is shocking and will of course be overhyped. If the person guarding Iverson were Wade or Bryant, and they had gotten crossed that badly, no one would really care... but this is Jordan; he's held to a different standard, and when he doesn't meet the standard that some hold him to, it's big news. It's sort of flattering for Jordan, but at the same time, his failures are magnified.

[StarJordan]

Where's the footage? The crossover wasn't a mainstream move until late 90's. There's not doubt if Jordan was playing today, he get shaken up regularly by guys like Kobe, Wade, Iverson... etc.

That's funny bigkingsfan Jordan shook your city and your team every year when the Bulls used to go on their november road trips. Your team was never good enough to play MJ much or else ur favorite player's mugs would be on the posters instead. And btw, Jordan was the one who won the scoring title of 1997 not iverson or kobe.

ps. The crossover was arguably invented by Tim Hardaway a guy Michael Jordan used to guard and stop regularly in the early 90s.

[lakers-city]

iverson and kobe were both rookies in 1997.

maybe i'll diss jordan because iverson won the scoring title in 2001 over him :rolleyes:

[GOBB]

MJ got his ankles broken and when he tried to recover got a jumper in his grill.

All cotton!

That is a FACT StarJordan. Accept that your idol got owned. It happens. Alvin Williams crossed over AI something nasty. See? Doesnt make AI less or a player nor do I need to make excuses, mention other irrelevant CRAP to save face and make less of the situation. You're basically showering a pile of dog poo with carpet cleaner. Take a second and sniff, you still SMELL the crap no matter how much you try to decorate it. It still stinks, it is still crap!

[bigkingsfan]

I'm still waiting on this footage of Jordan making a Kings player falling on his ass, thanks for stating the obvious that the early 90's Kings sucking. OMG Jordan won the scoring when Iverson and Kobe was beginning their career. And lol at Jordan guarding a PG, they were never match up.

[MaxFly]

If you watch the video, MJ has his hands and palms at the 45 degre angle. That's just solid fundamental defensive posture. You can't play it any better than that from a defensive standpoint.

You're just making things worse... This what makes it so bad... you're saying MJ played the best defense he could and still got shook. You'd have been better off saying that MJ didn't play good defense on that possession... didn't have a good defensive stance... Then you would have an excuse, but by your admission, he had a great defensive stance... That just leaves people saying, "So what happened?"

[GOBB]

Originally Posted by Skywalker
It was actually a carry. MJ's D could stop almost everyone if the refs weren't blind, and actually called illiegal plays.

Yeah because MJ was Haile Selassie of defense. :rolleyes:

STFU! Illegal is MJ grabbing a fistful of jersey when a player attempt to make a move and no whistle sounding. While at the other end you break wind and MJ smells a foul is called. Flagrant fouls were strictly enforced because of MJ & him getting lumped up by the Bad Boys. But we dont talk about that. MJ never palmed, traveled, fouled with no call, cursed out a ref and no tech.

He was perfect because if the refs werent blind to the illegal plays MJ's D could stop almost everyone. Crap like this is funny because it only gives fans more reason to look, search, highlight and point out faults, flaws, mishaps in MJ's game because people build him up like a mythical GOD.

Your reply makes "MJ is overrated" something I'd agree with.

[StarJordan]

Many believe that Jordan is the best defensive wing player to every play and could lock anyone down anyone, anytime he felt like it

Well he could. He could lock down Iverson even then, at 34. But it was just a regular season situation and sixers were going down anyway so he wasn't playing the 'attack defense' that he had the ability to play. If this was Bulls press and Jordan HAD to stop iverson or Bulls'd lose, it'd have been a different type of defense Jordan would be playing in that play. He would be frenetically harassing Iverson and going for the steal. Maybe iverson would get a foul, but just as likely he would have gotten blocked or stripped by Mike. But that wasn't the situation here.

MJ was known for the ability to play the 'doberman' defense (both him and pippen), the kind that shut down Kevin Johnson in the 1993 finals.

[lakers-city]

remember how penny owned both jordan and pippen in 1995 ?(both tried to guard him but neither player could)

jordan was one hell of a defender, the best defensive SG ever IMO but he was no godly force who had protection against a good crossover by another great like iverson.

[bigkingsfan]

Remember when Bobby Hurley dropped 40 on MJ in the 1st half?

[kp117]

yeah, it goes both ways, jordan wasnt some mistycal unnatural force who was protected by the gods from crossovers.


This statement give rise to a CRUCIAL part of MJ's game......the escape artist technique.

Any REAL basketball fan, knows what I speak of.

Much like A.I. perfected the cross, MJ perfected the elusive escape.

I'm sure everyone remembers the John Starks incident. Jordan got out that poster so quick, his shadow got banged on.

He escaped embarrassment from Shawn Kemp a few times too.

Jordan NEVER allowed himself to be put in such a compromising situation.

The significance of this cross cannot be denied.

[StarJordan]

I'm still waiting on this footage of Jordan

Just like you're still waiting to matter hehe. Jordan and the Bulls WASTED sacramento every November.

[lakers-city]

c'mon, the bulls were elite and the kings sucked in the 90s, what are you implying ?

[bigkingsfan]

Jordan and the Bulls WASTED sacramento every November. So did the rest of the league. Great accomplishment.


c'mon, the bulls were elite and the kings sucked in the 90s, what are you implying ?
Going off topic, trying to cover up his idol.

[MaxFly]

Well he could. He could lock down Iverson even then, at 34.

So you have no reason to complain about people overrating this crossover. If Jordan could lock down Iverson anytime he felt the need, that makes this crossover that much more outstanding. Iverson completely humiliated someone who could stop him at anytime and who was actually trying to stop him at the time. How special is that?

[GOBB]

MJ couldnt lock down anyone, anytime at age 34. Please STFU. Damn groupies

[StarJordan]

c'mon, the bulls were elite and the kings sucked in the 90s, what are you implying ?

Ok we wasted YOU too. We won our first title in Los Angeles at the GREAT WESTERN FORUM in front of all of hollywood. How's that? Sweet memory I say.

[Carbine]

Dude, who cares if Iverson shook him? It happens.

Doesn't take away from Michael Jordans' defense for a whole 48 minutes because I'm betting if Iverson took that same shot 30 times in a game, he wouldn't shoot a high percentage. Making the offensive player take a difficult shot if basically what you want aside from stripping him, because eventually the percentages will even out. That's basketball

If Jordan was 34 at the time, well... that certianly can't be ignored. At 34 you have less lateral movement then say when you were 25. Iverson would have a much harder time pulling that same move on a motivated and young Jordan. I think he could still get him once or twice, but not to that degree.

[StarJordan]

So did the rest of the league.

Who cares. You'd have been wasted even if you WERE good.

[lakers-city]

Ok we wasted YOU too. We won our first title in Los Angeles at the GREAT WESTERN FORUM in front of all of hollywood. How's that? Sweet memory I say.

yeah, with no kareem, old magic, injured worthy and scott, congratulations :rolleyes:

at least we werent embarrased in the 1st round like you and your pathetic bulls were in the 80s.



win 8 more championships and only then you will have bragging rights.

f.ucking whore.

[lakers-city]

Who cares. You'd have been wasted even if you WERE good.

lets see what larry bird thinks about that :roll:

[bigkingsfan]

Who cares. You'd have been wasted even if you WERE good.Just like Jordan would have been roasted by Iverson disregardless of age.

[StarJordan]

So you have no reason to complain about people overrating this crossover. If Jordan could lock down Iverson anytime he felt the need, that makes this crossover that much more outstanding. Iverson completely humiliated someone who could stop him at anytime and who was actually trying to stop him at the time. How special is that?

Well if you wanna talk about special let's talk about Larry Bird who got crossed over by Jordan in such style that he thought he had been crossed-over by GOD himself. Now that's special :-)

[StarJordan]

Just like Jordan would have been roasted by Iverson disregardless of age.

Well apparently not chump since Jordan beat him dry to the scoring title at the same time making ur team bow down to WORLD CHAMPION Bulls.

[lakers-city]

iverson was a rookie that year b1tch, did jordan win a scoring title as a rookie.

[One of Shemps Kids]

Holy F*ck, this JordanStar character is a tool. Are you Michael Jordan's bastard love child? Get a grip.

[StarJordan]

yeah, with no kareem, old magic, injured worthy and scott, congratulations

Uh huh you had Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Byron Scott, Vlade Divac, and Sam Perkins and had a lead after game 1. And we rocked LA 3 straight.




at least we werent embarrased in the 1st round like you and your pathetic bulls were in the 80s.
We never got swept in the finals either. And unlike your showtime teams or the celtics, the Bulls reign was not stopped by any players or any team. Nobody ever could beat the DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPION Chicago Bulls on the floor!

[lakers-city]

Uh huh you had Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Byron Scott, Vlade Divac, and Sam Perkins and had a lead after game 1. And we rocked LA 3 straight.



We never got swept in the finals either. And unlike your showtime teams or the celtics, the Bulls reign was not stopped by any players or any team. Nobody ever could beat the DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPION Chicago Bulls on the floor!

so what if you never lost in the finals ? how may times have you been there ? a lame 6 times ? LA has been there 28 times and has 14 rings.

how many rings your lame bulls won in he 50s ?

in the 60 and 70's?

in the 80s ?

in the 00s ?? the answer is never, nada, not even once.

you team is a lame one-decade dynasty. the lakers are an all-time dynasty.

go lakers :applause:

[StarJordan]

iverson was a rookie that year b1tch, did jordan win a scoring title as a rookie.

lol Jordan won the scoring title next year over Iverson again. Next!

[lakers-city]

yeah, with iverson as a rookie and a sophomore.

jordan didnt win a scoring title until his 3rd year, next !!!

[bigkingsfan]

Stop going off-topic, it's his intention. Lets get back to Iverson breaking Jordan's ankle.

[StarJordan]

so what if you never lost in the finals ? how may times have you been there ? a lame 6 times ? LA has been there 28 times and has 14 rings.

how many rings your lame bulls won in he 50s ?

in the 60 and 70's?

in the 80s ?

in the 00s ?? the answer is never, nada, not even once.

you team is a lame one-decade dynasty. the lakers are an all-time dynasty.

go lakers

That's nice but Bulls did in one decade (72!) what Lakers/celtics/Philly couldn't manage in 40 years. :applause:

[lakers-city]

yeah, well done iverson, nice to see him breaking jordan's ankles in such an embarassing way that all his groupies in here are getting all riled up.

well done allen :applause:

[lakers-city]

That's nice but Bulls did in one decade (72!) what Lakers/celtics/Philly couldn't manage in 40 years. :applause:

lol, i'll take 8 rings over some meaningless regular season record any day
.

lakers 14 rings, bulls 6 rings.

go lakers :applause:

[StarJordan]

yeah, with iverson as a rookie and a sophomore.

jordan didnt win a scoring title until his 3rd year, next !!!

He won the scoring title in the 2nd FULL season he played.

And btw, TECHNICALLY he had the most points in the NBA his rookie year
ITSELF!

[MaxFly]

Well if you wanna talk about special let's talk about Larry Bird who got crossed over by Jordan in such style that he thought he had been crossed-over by GOD himself. Now that's special :-)

You think that hurts me? I love Larry Legend, but even I'll admit that he wasn't the best individual defender. In fact, I made that point just a few days ago. He makes up for it with team defense, but the fact remains that crossing Larry is nothing special... But crossing someone who is supposed to be able to shut you down... that's special. Being crossed that badly by someone that you're supposed to lock down... that's embarrassing.

And didn't we sweep you guys when Larry was in his prime? C'mon...

[lakers-city]

He won the scoring title in the 2nd FULL season he played.

And btw, TECHNICALLY he had the most points in the NBA his rookie year
ITSELF!

if the lil beyotch went down injured thats his fault.

[StarJordan]

lol, i'll take 8 rings over some meaningless regular season record any day
.

lakers 14 rings, bulls 6 rings

The winningest team of all time:
1. The 1996 Chicago Bulls
2. The 1997 Chicago Bulls
3. 1972 LA Lakers

Congratulation on your 3rd place achievement

[lakers-city]

You think that hurts me? I love Larry Legend, but even I'll admit that he wasn't the best individual defender. In fact, I made that point just a few days ago. He makes up for it with team defense, but the fact remains that crossing Larry is nothing special... But crossing someone who is supposed to be able to shut you down... that's special. Being crossed that badly by someone that you're supposed to lock down... that's embarrassing.

And didn't we sweep you guys when Larry was in his prime? C'mon...

yeah, jordan never managed to beat larry bird, and the lakers did !!!

go lakers :D

[lakers-city]

The winningest team of all time:
1. The 1996 Chicago Bulls
2. The 1997 Chicago Bulls
3. 1972 LA Lakers

Congratulation on your 3rd place achievement

actually the winningest teams are measured like this.

1. boston: 16 rings
2, lakers: 14 rings
3 everyone else.

and the 1972 lakers won as many games as the 1997 bulls so its a tie biased c.unt.

congratulations in not even qualifying as one of the best teams of all-time, if you dont have at least 10 rings then you arent even worth mentioning, go lakers !! :applause:

[StarJordan]

Larry Legend called Michael Jordan GOD. Case closed.

[lakers-city]

at the same time he was sweeping his butt. case closed.

[MaxFly]

Larry Legend called Michael Jordan GOD. Case closed.

And then he swept him...

But that didn't stop Jordan from being humiliated by Iverson... Larry wasn't there to make Jordan feel better after he got crossed... No nice words from Larry... just a cross and a jay in the eye for Jordan... It's just that man's reality...

[StarJordan]

at the same time he was sweeping his butt. case closed.
We beat Pistons who beat Celtics, by transitivity we beat their butts too. Nobody could stop Chicago once we came on. Not your lakers, not Bird's celtics, not the pistons. NOOOOOO-BODY!

[StarJordan]

But that didn't stop Jordan from being humiliated by Iverson... Larry wasn't there to make Jordan feel better after he got crossed


And making this move didn't stop Jordan from taking more scoring titles and MVPs than Bird and Iverson combined :D

[lakers-city]

by transivity ?!? :roll: since when that means anything ?!?

larry bird DEMOLISHED your bulls both times they went against each other, case closed. thomas beat your bulls 2-of-3 times, case closed. your idol MJ never won anything without scottie saving his butt on defense, pippen was by far the better defender, case closed.

unlike your bulls the lakers have what it takes to defeat larry bird.

go lakers !!

[MaxFly]

And making this move didn't stop Jordan from taking more scoring titles and MVPs than Bird and Iverson combined :D

And yet all those scoring titles amd MVPs didn't stop Jordan from being humiliated on that play. :confusedshrug:

[StarJordan]

by transivity ?!? since when that means anything ?!?

larry bird DEMOLISHED your bulls bth times they went against each other, case closed.

unlike your bulls the lakers have what it takes to defeat larry bird.

go lakers !!

Uh by 1989 we had replacd the Celtics as the major powerhouse in the East. Actually in 1989, we probably were the best team in league on par with the pistons. Celtics couldn't do jack to them. Lakers got swept by them in the finals. Bulls were the only team that could beat them.

[StarJordan]

And yet all those scoring titles amd MVPs didn't stop Jordan from being humiliated on that play.

And yet Larry Bird declared Jordan GOD, and GOD as we know can't be humiliated :rockon: Therefore a logical error will be generated by that assertion. :roll:

[lakers-city]

by 1989 your bulls were still getting owned by isiah thomas, bird was old thats why the celtics slipped, and unlike your bulls the lakers dominated the best era of basketball:the 80s !!!

go lakers :applause:

[lakers-city]

And yet Larry Bird declared Jordan GOD, and GOD can't be humiliated :rockon:

iverson disagrees, that crossover was as embarassing as they come :rockon:

[The Answer]

Its pretty clear that Jordan will go down into the history books as the much better player, and he should. However even Jordan, in all his greatness, is not infallible. Iverson got him. Get over it. It's not a big deal. I'm sure Jordan could have gotten Iverson just as badly.

[StarJordan]

by 1989 your bulls were still getting owned by isiah thomas, bird was old thats why the celtics slipped, and unlike your bulls the lakers dominated the best era of basketball:the 80s !!!

Our NBA Finals against no-name teams got higher ratings than the glorious 80s era.

Hail to the Bulls! The world record holders and the most glorious, awesomest team of all time led by the greatest superman ever!

[lakers-city]

Our NBA Finals against no-name teams got higher ratings than the glorious 80s era.

so what ? that means that more people were watching them, not that they were better, people prefer a ballhog who punches his teammates (kerr) over the ultimate teammate (magic), that only means that casual NBA fans are stupid !
go LA !!

[MaxFly]

And yet Larry Bird declared Jordan GOD, and GOD as we know can't be humiliated :rockon: Therefore a logical error will be generated by that assertion. :roll:

And so one thing is clear; since Jordan was clearly embarrassed by Iverson, Larry Bird must have been wrong. Iverson certainly made Jordan look like a mere human.

By now, you have to have caught onto the fact that I'm just provoking you... it's silly how you catch feelings so easily... Someone says something about Larry, I make my points and brush it off. Someone says something about Jordan, you're near tears trying to defend him... looking up stats and accolades. Dude got shook. Just accept it and keep it moving.

[tontoz]

He could lock down Iverson even then, at 34.

OMG

I am a huge Jordan fan and I have always been fairly critical of Iverson because of his selfishness, but this is getting ridiculous. Jordan at any age simply wasn't quick enough to stay in front of a young Iverson.

Iverson is practically unguardable 1 on 1 now at 31. Back then he was a freak, one of the quickest players with the ball I have ever seen. The only player I can think of off the top of my head who was comparable was Kevin Johnson.

If there has ever been a defender who has been able to lock down Iverson consistently I would sure like to know who he is.

[Vragrant]

Hmmm *looks at avatar* :

Read the whole thread. I freely admit I am biased.

Plus your;e a Philly/AI fan anyways, This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Your'e post full of hyperbole of what happened doesn't change the fact Jordan played good defense, but just got beaten by a great offensive player.

[lakers-city]

Read the whole thread. I freely I am biased.

Plus your;e a Philly/AI fan anyways, This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Your's post full of hyperbole of what happened doesn't change the fact Jordan played good defense, but just got beaten by a great offensive player.

jordan played good defense and got beat by a good scorer,this is a good way to say it, but some jordan groupies cant even accept that.

[GOBB]

Read the whole thread. I freely admit I am biased.

Your bias clouds your judgement too much. Shame.

[dejordan]

jordan's my all time fav by a mile, and i've seen him lay some tight d on some quick guys when he was young. watch the 1993 finals. phil puts mj on kj in key situations (though bj does all the pressing and chasing), and mj stays in front beautifully, but there were some guys mike could never cover. tim hardaway could go right by him. so could isiah. that's the class of speed iverson has, so i'd say there's no way mj could stop iverson's crossover. he'd have to just back off and dare ai to shoot the j all day and hope he could cover enough ground to contest / block those jumpers. that was one of the weak spots of the 1996-98 team. the only super-quick stopper they had was randy brown, and he was a liability on offense. that's why guys like ai and damon staudemire used to eat them up (though chicago still won most of those games).

[DanHowitt]

http://imgserv2.imagehigh.com/imgss/4040911_gif%20ivoxxxxjordan.gif

Mostly everyone remembers the famous crossover, but would Iverson have been able to do that to a Prime Jordan, and did Jordan face any players from his generation that could do that to him?

na.

[bwink23]

I'm one of the biggest Jordan fans there is....and YES, he would have got Jordan in his prime too....but on that particular play, Jordan damn near recovered for the block....Prime Jordan would have wiped that out.

[MochaUdoka]

Iverson could cross a prime Chuck Norris

[upside24]

Iverson could cross a prime Chuck Norris
repped

[HylianNightmare]

Yes, who couldn't he cross up?

[Solid Snake]

To everyone saying that any given elite streetballer can crossover an NBA star.

NO.

Do you guys not remember the several anecdotes over the years about NBA stars EMBARRASSING non-NBA stars.

Let's see how good my memory is, these are various things posted by people here on this forum.

1) Someone said that they saw Calvin Booth at a park just crossing cats over like it was nothing.

2) Someone said that Jeff Mcginiss with ONE HAND IN A SLING consecutively kept stripping the ball from some And One player at Rucker Park everytime he got the ball.

3) Someone said that Nate Robinson was at their college or something? Playing against a bunch of frat kids. Something about how he was wear flip flops and oversized jeans and DIDN'T MISS A SINGLE SHOT.

Ok fine, only one anecdote actually addresses a "streetballer" vs an NBA player, but still..

[Asukal]

Of course he can, Jordan is an elite defender but he is not perfect. :banghead:

[markymark]

To everyone saying that any given elite streetballer can crossover an NBA star.

NO.

Do you guys not remember the several anecdotes over the years about NBA stars EMBARRASSING non-NBA stars.

Let's see how good my memory is, these are various things posted by people here on this forum.

1) Someone said that they saw Calvin Booth at a park just crossing cats over like it was nothing.

2) Someone said that Jeff Mcginiss with ONE HAND IN A SLING consecutively kept stripping the ball from some And One player at Rucker Park everytime he got the ball.

3) Someone said that Nate Robinson was at their college or something? Playing against a bunch of frat kids. Something about how he was wear flip flops and oversized jeans and DIDN'T MISS A SINGLE SHOT.

Ok fine, only one anecdote actually addresses a "streetballer" vs an NBA player, but still..

makes me wonder how devin harris got owned by some random dude

[mattevans11]

http://imgserv2.imagehigh.com/imgss/4040911_gif%20ivoxxxxjordan.gif

Mostly everyone remembers the famous crossover, but would Iverson have been able to do that to a Prime Jordan, and did Jordan face any players from his generation that could do that to him?



Just by making this thread, you have shown how little you know about basketball.... "crossin" someone up is part of the game and is not hard to do to anyone.... fact is a good defender will get crossed up from time to time just by simply playing aggressive on that end..... you are a damn fool

[NumberSix]

OF CORSE!!!!!!

It's not like prime Mike shot 100%, blocked every single shot and never got scored on. Even if you're the best, it doesn't mean that nobody can ever shake you.

[pauk]

Ofcourse? WTF....

[Soundwave]

Iverson is 5'11 really, he should be fast enough to gain separation at least temporarily from any 6'6 player.

I don't really see it as much of a big deal though because he crossed him and then what? Shot a jumper, which is a shot he probably could've gotten anyway.