I can't stand Shaq's ego

[Smokee]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2009/03/howard-reacts-to-jabs-from-shaq-the-big-diss.html

[B][I]

Magic center Dwight Howard said he was "shocked" at some of the things Suns center Shaquille O'Neal has said about him.

"I try not to think about it. Some of the things I hear, I am shocked to hear him say that," said Howard, his trademark smile gone.

What has Shaq said?

Well, it

[dr8ked]

Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Life


[QUOTE][B][SIZE="5"]

[Grinder]

Shaq would still dominate Dwight. Why the hell would Shaq be willing to help Dwight out when they're on opposing teams and rival centers in the league. A few years after Shaq is retired, I'm sure he'll be more than willing to help Dwight improve.

[Slam13]

Shaq got jealous when Dwight claimed to be the new superman, dethroning Shaq.

[CelticForce1349]

"Toronto’s Chris Bosh, whom Shaq recently called "the RuPaul of big men.")


:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :lol :roll:

[Hotbullets]

Shaq is one of the few people walking around on this earth who can afford to have an ego this big imo. GO SHAQ! :)

And I like Howard, but he should just take the hits and try to prove Shaq otherwise.

[guy]

Shaq would still dominate Dwight. Why the hell would Shaq be willing to help Dwight out when they're on opposing teams and rival centers in the league. A few years after Shaq is retired, I'm sure he'll be more than willing to help Dwight improve.

LOL thats true. I didn't really think of that. But still, current players do help out other current players. I highly doubt no one was giving advice on how to improve they're game on the Olympic team.

I'm kind of torn between Shaq's attitude. I agree with pretty much everything he says, but he can't really say it without looking like an a**h***. So either he goes the easy way and looks fake or he speaks the truth and looks like an egomaniac. For example, if he said Howard might become as great as he is, he'll look like a moron, cause anyone that thinks Howard will be as great as Shaq is either lying or completely delusional.

[guy]

Shaq is one of the few people walking around on this earth who can afford to have an ego this big imo. GO SHAQ! :)

And I like Howard, but he should just take the hits and try to prove Shaq otherwise.

Yea seriously. He sounds like a baby who got yelled at by his dad. You would think he would just say whatever and go out there and get 20 rebounds and block some of Shaq's shots or something.

[Mikaiel]

He's right though.

It's Dwight who's f*cking annoying. He's like a carbon copy of Shaq, without the game to back it up. I mean, the Superman stuff, looking at his left hand when he makes a left-handed shot, even trying to take a guard off the dribble in the ASG, it's all Shaq. Grow up and be your own person Dwight, we don't need another Shaq. Shaq was/is awesome but you're not him.

But that Superman stuff is really annoying. There was already a Superman in this league and Dwight is nowhere near him and will probably never be ...

[hoopaddict08]

I don't have a problem with what he said, it's pretty much all true. Dwight Howard has done nothing to set himself apart from the all-time great. He is merely just following his footsteps, only Shaq's footprints are bigger.

[oh the horror]

Well, one man has four rings, and the other has none.

[LJJ]

I can't stand Shaq's ego either.

If anyone is the NBA right now is entitled to a big ego, it's Shaq.
But it's still annoying.

[guy]

He's right though.

It's Dwight who's f*cking annoying. He's like a carbon copy of Shaq, without the game to back it up. I mean, the Superman stuff, looking at his left hand when he makes a left-handed shot, even trying to take a guard off the dribble in the ASG, it's all Shaq. Grow up and be your own person Dwight, we don't need another Shaq. Shaq was/is awesome but you're not him.

But that Superman stuff is really annoying. There was already a Superman in this league and Dwight is nowhere near him and will probably never be ...

Yea I agree. Everyone says Kobe is trying to be Jordan but its not anywhere near as bad as Dwight trying to be Shaq. Could you imagine if Kobe stuck his tongue out all the time, did the chalk thing, and called himself Air Kobe? He would get crucified even more for it. Another thing about Dwight I don't like is his some of his attempts at humor. Its not funny and you could tell he's trying to be a big clown like Shaq. I'm sure some of that is just his personality, but I think he also just wants to have that label after Shaq leaves.

[spursdynasty420]

shaq is awesome. he isnt laid back like tim duncan but hes the exact opposite of tim duncan and i still love him. even after he called us floppers. hes also right about howard. he hasnt won ****

[TakitoEspanoza]

I love Shaq because of his ego

[Smokee]

I guess if Dwight never wore the Superman people wouldn't say he's trying to be like Shaq?

What did Shaq do again with Superman? I have this image of him wearing a Superman T shirt or whatever, but i can't remember why :confusedshrug: I know he wasn't in the dunk contest so i'm trying to remember in what context he wore it.

Shaq's game has never impressed me much in terms of respecting it. Yeah he was physcially dominating and could dunk in the paint almost every time after a lob pass, but that **** just doesn't impress me like someone that really has 'game' more than physical attributes to dominate. Meh i'm sure i'm in the minority with that but oh well :ohwell:

[305Baller]

Haha I love the Shaq trash talk. A fading art.

[guy]

Shaq's game has never impressed me much in terms of respecting it. Yeah he was physcially dominating and could dunk in the paint almost every time after a lob pass, but that **** just doesn't impress me like someone that really has 'game' more than physical attributes to dominate. Meh i'm sure i'm in the minority with that but oh well :ohwell:

I used to think the same way. But really, for a guy his size to be able to do some of things he does is absolutely amazing, and the same goes for Yao. Players of that size really aren't supposed to be able to move like that and they really shouldn't even last that long in this league.

[visirale]

You guys are just pissed you don't have Dwight on your team. Shaq is just pissed that most of Orlando hates him now, and we all love Dwight. This is where Shaq got started, but could never get it done all the way, and now Dwight has a chance to do what Shaq couldn't...

[Smokee]

I used to think the same way. But really, for a guy his size to be able to do some of things he does is absolutely amazing, and the same goes for Yao. Players of that size really aren't supposed to be able to move like that and they really shouldn't even last that long in this league.


I just don't really feel that way. If you took a Shaq highlight tape, i bet 3/4's of it would be lob passes and everyone clearing out of the way for him to dunk hard. I mean yeah its true he and Yao are born with athleticism for their sizes no question, but as far as respecting they're 'games' i just really don't that much. Shaq more than Yao since Yao at least has real post game and shot and can pass, but Shaq back then was more size and dunk dominating. His post game has gotten better as he's gotten older but i'd hardly say that was the main reason he was so dominating in the NBA.

Then again i'm not like most fans here who measure everyone by rings or whatever. Tim Hardaway will always be one of my favorite players and he didn't win ****, nor was ever MVP, or any of that. I loved his 'game', while Shaq's is more him being gifted with naturally born size and athleticism more than anything imo.

Like i said tho i know a lot of people here will disagree or try to argue with me, but i've seen/read this crap way too much to be convinced by anyone exaggerating Shaq's game as more than dominating size and dunking like some pretend to :ohwell:

[DarkNight]

Lakers - Orlando - Miami

"Call this the 'I Hate Shaq Trip,' " O'Neal said.

LMAO

[fiad06]

I love the Dwight hate in here... I don't understand how people hate him, has he talked trash to anyone his entire career?

I guarantee there is no one in the league that gets beat up harder during a game then Dwight, but do you hear him going public about how the refs are missing calls?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkigFiE-758

[lakerfreak]

If shaq wants to keep the superman title, he needs to play much better. He's been playing good lately, but he needs to play great.

[dwermlakers24]

If shaq wants to keep the superman title, he needs to play much better. He's been playing good lately, but he needs to play great.

yea..i think this is just a little spurt of great basketball for him...i see him cooling off before the playoffs start

[Mikaiel]

If shaq wants to keep the superman title, he needs to play much better. He's been playing good lately, but he needs to play great.

It doesn't matter, Shaq was, still is and will always be Superman. Dwight is not worthy of that title, not even close. Maybe bump this thread when he averages 38 points and 18 rebounds in the Finals, but until then, it's a shamockery he gets away with it.

[gotbacon23]

Shaq would still dominate Dwight. Why the hell would Shaq be willing to help Dwight out when they're on opposing teams and rival centers in the league. A few years after Shaq is retired, I'm sure he'll be more than willing to help Dwight improve.

he could be classy and help him though. moses malone helped hakeem olajuwon out during the off seasons when they both were all-stars and opponents. the georgetown guys (ewing, mutombo, mourning) always helped each other out in the offseason. and im sure it benefited all parties involved.

[shadow]

He's right though.

It's Dwight who's f*cking annoying. He's like a carbon copy of Shaq, without the game to back it up. I mean, the Superman stuff, looking at his left hand when he makes a left-handed shot, even trying to take a guard off the dribble in the ASG, it's all Shaq. Grow up and be your own person Dwight, we don't need another Shaq. Shaq was/is awesome but you're not him.

But that Superman stuff is really annoying. There was already a Superman in this league and Dwight is nowhere near him and will probably never be ...

Harsh but true. However, I find it amusing that Shaq, the guy with 4 rings is so insecure that he feels the need to put down Dwight. I don't get any sort of arrogance or cockiness on Dwight's part. It's not like he's out there claiming to be better. If anything Shaq should be flattered, or atleast more mature about it.

[inclinerator]

if anything this should fuel motivation for dwight to get even better

[halffttime]

book it i just had a premonition.. somethings gonna go down between shaq and dwight when they meet.. dwight will either block shaq or dunk on shaq and shaq will have none of it.. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[guy]

I just don't really feel that way. If you took a Shaq highlight tape, i bet 3/4's of it would be lob passes and everyone clearing out of the way for him to dunk hard. I mean yeah its true he and Yao are born with athleticism for their sizes no question, but as far as respecting they're 'games' i just really don't that much. Shaq more than Yao since Yao at least has real post game and shot and can pass, but Shaq back then was more size and dunk dominating. His post game has gotten better as he's gotten older but i'd hardly say that was the main reason he was so dominating in the NBA.

Then again i'm not like most fans here who measure everyone by rings or whatever. Tim Hardaway will always be one of my favorite players and he didn't win ****, nor was ever MVP, or any of that. I loved his 'game', while Shaq's is more him being gifted with naturally born size and athleticism more than anything imo.

Like i said tho i know a lot of people here will disagree or try to argue with me, but i've seen/read this crap way too much to be convinced by anyone exaggerating Shaq's game as more than dominating size and dunking like some pretend to :ohwell:

First of all, Shaq isn't just about dunking cause he's so big. He does have a post game, is a great rebounder, great man defender, great passer, etc. Alot of that is not 100% due to size. I see what you're saying but the reason that type of thinking is unfair is cause if you're going to penalize one player for his size, you should do that for everyone, which is almost every NBA player. For example, is Lebron James going to be just as great if he was a foot shorter? No, he probably wouldn't even be in the league. Now I know thats not exactly what you're saying, but Lebron's "game" might not even be noticed if they had different physical attributes.

[A Roc 23]

yea..i think this is just a little spurt of great basketball for him...i see him cooling off before the playoffs start


If shaq wants to keep the superman title, he needs to play much better. He's been playing good lately, but he needs to play great.

In 52 games Shaq is averaging:

18 points 9 rebounds 1.5 blocks on 61% FG in 30 minutes.

He's been this good all year, all that happened was his touches went up due to Amar'e's and Nash's injuries and the increased pace.

Shaq has been playing great basketball since the start of the season. The fact that he's playing better than ever at game 60 is a sign that he is probably not going to cool off. You could be right though. I just get tired of people calling this a recent "comeback" when Shaq has been playing this way all season. If anything you could call this a Suns comeback, not a Shaq comeback.

All the Suns need is for the Spurs to beat the Mavericks next game and they can do the rest themselves.

[Riker]

He's right though.

It's Dwight who's f*cking annoying. He's like a carbon copy of Shaq, without the game to back it up. I mean, the Superman stuff, looking at his left hand when he makes a left-handed shot, even trying to take a guard off the dribble in the ASG, it's all Shaq. Grow up and be your own person Dwight, we don't need another Shaq. Shaq was/is awesome but you're not him.

But that Superman stuff is really annoying. There was already a Superman in this league and Dwight is nowhere near him and will probably never be ...


:bowdown:


It's about time kids realize just how many things these modern start straight jack up from the players that were around or still are.


Superman, chalk, 23, Nate's "Spud" dunk...I could go on...

Kids have no imagination these days and it sucks.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/02/16/kerr.paxson/shaq-superman.jpg

http://www.chicagosbestblogs.com/ed-kerr.jpg

etc etc

Stop it and get your own things goin. SMH.

[A Roc 23]

Oh and Smokee,

Shaq has all the physical gifts, but he also is extremely skilled. He's lost a lot of his athletic ability, yet he's still scoring at a higher rate than any center in the league.

I've watched every game this season and I can tell you Shaq's hook shot has been nice, his turn around floater (or whatever you want to call it) has been on fire, his spin move (sometimes an uncalled foul, bet meh) has been working. Heck he's been straight up beating centers with his agility lately. He'll spin baseline and use his ridiculously fluid first step to beat almost any center in the league.

[A Roc 23]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/aditi_kinkhabwala/06/27/better.half/p1_shaq.jpg

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/shaqkiss.jpg

http://lesterslegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/shaqs-bed.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/wv3KkZDvQPdKZimfFjEL8Q2WVcAjrNIJxJZLsjimuGs_/Suns_Diesel_Powered.jpg

[Smokee]

First of all, Shaq isn't just about dunking cause he's so big. He does have a post game, is a great rebounder, great man defender, great passer, etc. Alot of that is not 100% due to size. I see what you're saying but the reason that type of thinking is unfair is cause if you're going to penalize one player for his size, you should do that for everyone, which is almost every NBA player. For example, is Lebron James going to be just as great if he was a foot shorter? No, he probably wouldn't even be in the league. Now I know thats not exactly what you're saying, but Lebron's "game" might not even be noticed if they had different physical attributes.


What did Shaq have? His post game was definitely less polished than it is now. He can't shoot free throws. He has no short jumper or even a jumper at all, really. I mean i guess he can occasionally hit a bank when he's close to the glass leaning in, but i really wouldn't consider that him being a shooter at all. He had post moves but not anything that was very impressive imo. He was a capable passer out of the post i guess but thats not very difficult. I just know Shaq scored a lot of his baskets back then due mostly to size in the paint. Where he would catch the ball down low, and just dunk or lay it up where he just physically outmatched the competition.

Comparing him to Lebron is crazy. Lebron has all around game. He can shoot the 3, shoot midrange, drive, dish, etc. Lebron is like the opposite of Shaq. Lebron would've been good even if he was 100lbs lighter. Maybe not as great but he would've been at least good with the skills he possesses that aren't exactly based on his size.

Shaq was just way more 1 dimensional than people want to remember him for imo. Don't get me wrong i think his game, especially his post game, has improved significantly since then, but its had to because he isn't as physically dominating as he used to be.

Shaq in his prime is like Mike Tyson in his prime in the respect that everyone was scared of them. It wasn't Shaq's 'skills' or 'game' more than him just being this huge dominating figure in the paint that nobody wanted or could stand in front of.

I just don't buy the reinventing history that a lot of people here tend to do, that pretend Shaq had all of this 'game' when he really didn't imo :confusedshrug:

[halffttime]

First of all, Shaq isn't just about dunking cause he's so big. He does have a post game, is a great rebounder, great man defender, great passer, etc. Alot of that is not 100% due to size. I see what you're saying but the reason that type of thinking is unfair is cause if you're going to penalize one player for his size, you should do that for everyone, which is almost every NBA player. For example, is Lebron James going to be just as great if he was a foot shorter? No, he probably wouldn't even be in the league. Now I know thats not exactly what you're saying, but Lebron's "game" might not even be noticed if they had different physical attributes.

the thing i wonder about is.. if you take a look at james and shaq for example, theres alot of other players in the past who have been blessed with physical attributes similar to theirs but didnt even come close to doing what james and shaq have done.. so you cant really look down on their accomplishments just cause they were lucky to be born tall, big, and strong.. that saying, if i was a 7 footer, i think id easily make first overall pick in the draft.. but im not :(

[Smokee]

Oh and Smokee,

Shaq has all the physical gifts, but he also is extremely skilled. He's lost a lot of his athletic ability, yet he's still scoring at a higher rate than any center in the league.

I've watched every game this season and I can tell you Shaq's hook shot has been nice, his turn around floater (or whatever you want to call it) has been on fire, his spin move (sometimes an uncalled foul, bet meh) has been working. Heck he's been straight up beating centers with his agility lately. He'll spin baseline and use his ridiculously fluid first step to beat almost any center in the league.


i'm not denying he has more post game now. He had it with the Heat. But i just don't think he was nearly as polished with it when he was dominating with the Lakers. I said this in my first post i think.

[Riker]

Lebron would've been good even if he was 100lbs lighter. Maybe not as great but he would've been at least good with the skills he possesses that aren't exactly based on his size.

I guess they're right when they say that love is blind.

[Smokee]

I guess they're right when they say that love is blind.


I tend to ignore haters who just hate on players to hate but i thought i'd at least tell you this :ohwell:

[Mikaiel]

Some stats of some great centers on the season they were 36/37 years old :

Hakeem : 10.3 points, 45.8 FG%, 6.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 1.59 blocks

Dadid Robinson : 12.2 points, 50.7 FG%, 8.3 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.79 blocks

Ewing : 17.3 points, 43.5 FG%; 9.9 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 2.6 blocks

Shaq : 18.1 points, 60.6 FG%, 8.8 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.5 blocks

Not bad for a guy who's not skilled and is only successful because he has a big body :confusedshrug:

[Riker]

I wasn't hating nobody.

Saying James would be this good with 170 pounds is a blatant lie.

Saying he doesn't rely a lot on his weight/strength is also a lie.

On topic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mONrcP2NKRc

[Goku]

He's right though.

It's Dwight who's f*cking annoying. He's like a carbon copy of Shaq, without the game to back it up. I mean, the Superman stuff, looking at his left hand when he makes a left-handed shot, even trying to take a guard off the dribble in the ASG, it's all Shaq. Grow up and be your own person Dwight, we don't need another Shaq. Shaq was/is awesome but you're not him.

But that Superman stuff is really annoying. There was already a Superman in this league and Dwight is nowhere near him and will probably never be ...

you idiot he is different, hes been in the dunk contest and thats where he made his own image

a big man trying to take a guard off the dribble in the ASG is copying shaq? so i guess dirk is copying shaq

a big man who dominates in the low post because hes physically bigger than alot of the competition, i guess howards copying shaq and i guess shaqs copying wilt, boo hoo cry me a river its basketball

dwights not the only player to look at his left hand after making a shot,, ive seen wade and vc do it to name a few

alot of people want to make the comparisons, i dont hear dwight running around like im the next shaq, im the closest thing to shaq. the media takes care of that.

so just relax, you sound butt hurt over the whole ordeal, are you related to shaq?

[halffttime]

What did Shaq have? His post game was definitely less polished than it is now. He can't shoot free throws. He has no short jumper or even a jumper at all, really. I mean i guess he can occasionally hit a bank when he's close to the glass leaning in, but i really wouldn't consider that him being a shooter at all. He had post moves but not anything that was very impressive imo. He was a capable passer out of the post i guess but thats not very difficult. I just know Shaq scored a lot of his baskets back then due mostly to size in the paint. Where he would catch the ball down low, and just dunk or lay it up where he just physically outmatched the competition.

Comparing him to Lebron is crazy. Lebron has all around game. He can shoot the 3, shoot midrange, drive, dish, etc. Lebron is like the opposite of Shaq. Lebron would've been good even if he was 100lbs lighter. Maybe not as great but he would've been at least good with the skills he possesses that aren't exactly based on his size.

Shaq was just way more 1 dimensional than people want to remember him for imo. Don't get me wrong i think his game, especially his post game, has improved significantly since then, but its had to because he isn't as physically dominating as he used to be.

Shaq in his prime is like Mike Tyson in his prime in the respect that everyone was scared of them. It wasn't Shaq's 'skills' or 'game' more than him just being this huge dominating figure in the paint that nobody wanted or could stand in front of.

I just don't buy the reinventing history that a lot of people here tend to do, that pretend Shaq had all of this 'game' when he really didn't imo :confusedshrug:

IMO, james doesnt even come close in being the best in shooting 3s, midrange, driving, dishing, etc.. i think what makes him great is him being blessed with incredible size and strength, combined with his speed and being brought up as a point guard really benefited him.. his skills is mediocre compared to nba standards, but the fact that hes a big guy and at the same time can move like a guard is IT.. i mean imagine someone with iverson's skills whos 260lbs and 6'8.. that would be a nightmare..

[Riker]

his skills is mediocre compared to nba standards

O-oh! :eek:

[A Roc 23]

Some stats of some great centers on the season they were 36/37 years old :

Hakeem : 10.3 points, 45.8 FG%, 6.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 1.59 blocks

Dadid Robinson : 12.2 points, 50.7 FG%, 8.3 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.79 blocks

Ewing : 17.3 points, 43.5 FG%; 9.9 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 2.6 blocks

Shaq : 18.1 points, 60.6 FG%, 8.8 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.5 blocks

Not bad for a guy who's not skilled and is only successful because he has a big body :confusedshrug:

Not to mention:

Ewing played 34 minutes and took 15 shots per game.

Shaq plays 30 minutes and takes 11 shots per game.

Hell Shaq plays the same number of minutes Robinson played and only takes 2 more shots, yet he's scoring 6 more points.

[Goku]

What did Shaq have? His post game was definitely less polished than it is now. He can't shoot free throws. He has no short jumper or even a jumper at all, really. I mean i guess he can occasionally hit a bank when he's close to the glass leaning in, but i really wouldn't consider that him being a shooter at all. He had post moves but not anything that was very impressive imo. He was a capable passer out of the post i guess but thats not very difficult. I just know Shaq scored a lot of his baskets back then due mostly to size in the paint. Where he would catch the ball down low, and just dunk or lay it up where he just physically outmatched the competition.

Comparing him to Lebron is crazy. Lebron has all around game. He can shoot the 3, shoot midrange, drive, dish, etc. Lebron is like the opposite of Shaq. Lebron would've been good even if he was 100lbs lighter. Maybe not as great but he would've been at least good with the skills he possesses that aren't exactly based on his size.

Shaq was just way more 1 dimensional than people want to remember him for imo. Don't get me wrong i think his game, especially his post game, has improved significantly since then, but its had to because he isn't as physically dominating as he used to be.

Shaq in his prime is like Mike Tyson in his prime in the respect that everyone was scared of them. It wasn't Shaq's 'skills' or 'game' more than him just being this huge dominating figure in the paint that nobody wanted or could stand in front of.

I just don't buy the reinventing history that a lot of people here tend to do, that pretend Shaq had all of this 'game' when he really didn't imo :confusedshrug:

wait did you even watch shaq during the lakers title runs?

your a moron - shaq had great footwork and a very good postgame, because alot of the times he wasnt playing scrubs like he played today he was playing legit centers who he couldnt always just bully, it took skill - divac, sabonis, mutombo were the quality of guys he was facing like i said he had to have skill also

hes the opposite of lebron? there shouldnt be anything similar about their games, he's a C and lebrons a SF. What the hell if lebron was 100 pounds lighter he'd still be good well of course hes a perimter player. if shaq was 100 pounds lighter he'd still be 300 so i think he'd still be effective. what a great argument.

oh yea, and i guess 28pts, 20rebs, 9assts and 8blks in the finals is very 1 dimensional

:ohwell:

[halffttime]

O-oh! :eek:

i mean shooting 3s, midrange, dribbling, etc... you could probably find alot of guys in the league who can do these things better than him..

and im not try to take away anything from james by any means.. he hasnt won a championship yet and theres no doubt in my mind that he will win his share of championships and he will go down as top 5 greatest, atleast..

[halffttime]

wait did you even watch shaq during the lakers title runs?

your a moron - shaq had great footwork and a very good postgame, because alot of the times he wasnt playing scrubs like he played today he was playing legit centers who he couldnt always just bully, it took skill - divac, sabonis, mutombo were the quality of guys he was facing like i said he had to have skill also

hes the opposite of lebron? there shouldnt be anything similar about their games, he's a C and lebrons a SF. What the hell if lebron was 100 pounds lighter he'd still be good well of course hes a perimter player. if shaq was 100 pounds lighter he'd still be 300 so i think he'd still be effective. what a great argument.

oh yea, and i guess 28pts, 20rebs, 9assts and 8blks in the finals is very 1 dimensional

:ohwell:

damn, thats crazy numbers for nba fantasy points... thats gotta be around 70-80 points..

[Smokee]

wait did you even watch shaq during the lakers title runs?

your a moron - shaq had great footwork and a very good postgame, because alot of the times he wasnt playing scrubs like he played today he was playing legit centers who he couldnt always just bully, it took skill - divac, sabonis, mutombo were the quality of guys he was facing like i said he had to have skill also

hes the opposite of lebron? there shouldnt be anything similar about their games, he's a C and lebrons a SF. What the hell if lebron was 100 pounds lighter he'd still be good well of course hes a perimter player. if shaq was 100 pounds lighter he'd still be 300 so i think he'd still be effective. what a great argument.

oh yea, and i guess 28pts, 20rebs, 9assts and 8blks in the finals is very 1 dimensional

:ohwell:


This is why i'm reluctant to get into telling it like it was, and yeah i watched the Lakers a lot. So many morons that hype players as more than they were. When the basis of your offense is a triangle and your post big man of course you are going to get a lot of assists if your perimater players can hit their shots. Are you really going to pretend Shaq was some great passer? :rolleyes: Are you really going to pretend every big man in the league can't shoot jumpers because they are limited from doing that by their size? Are you really going to make it out like Shaq's footwork has much to do with Shaq catching the ball iin the post and going up for a dunk?

I swear realistic discussions here are impossible because of retards like this. They reinvent and exaggerate. ANYONE can catch a ball in the post if they are much bigger than everyone else and go up and put it in, get the **** out of here about this incredible footwork :banghead: Go to your elementary school, go play with 5 yr olds half your size, and tell me how much footwork it takes to catch the ball and put it up against them dumbass.

Ughh nevermind. I knew this would happen, and these idiot bball fans would come here pretending Shaq was so great at everything else, and his size has the least to do with his success. I'll just say i disagree, and i think people like you are the biggest problem with this forum, but typical :rolleyes:

[Smokee]

i mean shooting 3s, midrange, dribbling, etc... you could probably find alot of guys in the league who can do these things better than him..

and im not try to take away anything from james by any means.. he hasnt won a championship yet and theres no doubt in my mind that he will win his share of championships and he will go down as top 5 greatest, atleast..


Lebron is actually an excellent passer and has above average vision. I'd say he has an above average jumper also, even at 3 pt range. He's got a decent handle and has drive game. I don't think there are that many as good at all of that like he is iin one package like you think in the NBA.

[guy]

What did Shaq have? His post game was definitely less polished than it is now. He can't shoot free throws. He has no short jumper or even a jumper at all, really. I mean i guess he can occasionally hit a bank when he's close to the glass leaning in, but i really wouldn't consider that him being a shooter at all. He had post moves but not anything that was very impressive imo. He was a capable passer out of the post i guess but thats not very difficult. I just know Shaq scored a lot of his baskets back then due mostly to size in the paint. Where he would catch the ball down low, and just dunk or lay it up where he just physically outmatched the competition.

Comparing him to Lebron is crazy. Lebron has all around game. He can shoot the 3, shoot midrange, drive, dish, etc. Lebron is like the opposite of Shaq. Lebron would've been good even if he was 100lbs lighter. Maybe not as great but he would've been at least good with the skills he possesses that aren't exactly based on his size.

Shaq was just way more 1 dimensional than people want to remember him for imo. Don't get me wrong i think his game, especially his post game, has improved significantly since then, but its had to because he isn't as physically dominating as he used to be.

Shaq in his prime is like Mike Tyson in his prime in the respect that everyone was scared of them. It wasn't Shaq's 'skills' or 'game' more than him just being this huge dominating figure in the paint that nobody wanted or could stand in front of.

I just don't buy the reinventing history that a lot of people here tend to do, that pretend Shaq had all of this 'game' when he really didn't imo :confusedshrug:

Comparing him to Lebron isn't crazy at all. Lebron's 3 point shot and midrange jumper is pretty average, possibly below average. And why do you think he's good at driving to the basket? Cause he's been blessed with the strength and speed that is pretty much impossible to stop. If Lebron was 100 lbs lighter he probably wouldn't even be in the league, and thats not a knock on him, cause that goes for many NBA players. Lebron's game is alot about his physical traits, but he doesn't get a knock on for it and neither should Shaq. There's 5 foot nothings in middle school that are probably more "skilled" then a few basketball players including Shaq. Do you respect there "game" more then these NBA player? Every single NBA player is in the league partly due to the luck of having great athleticism and/or size. Even Tim Hardaway, who's got more speed then 99.9% of the world. And you're really underrating Shaq. His spin move, hook shot, floater like A Roc said were always good and have been very good as of late. And like I said before, he was always a good rebounder and good defender, sometimes due to his size and sometimes not. And how do you say being a good passer from the post is not difficult? Of course its difficult. ITS THE NBA. Shaq could've easily been Eddy Curry, but he's not. Yao could've been Shawn Bradley or Gheorge Muresan, but he's not. The reason is cause they obviously have some skill and are better conditioned.

[artest 93]

Well, one man has four rings, and the other has none.

This should be instant ban.

One Horry has nearly twice as Shaq, too. I know Horry wasn't the main guy on any team he won, but please stop with that ring crap. It's important to determine legacy, especially if you were the main guy, but there are other determinants, too.

One man has been in the league for 4 years and the other, 17?
One man has played with Kobe and Wade, the other hasn't?

I'm not saying Dwight is going to be as dominant as Shaq was in his prime, or accomplish as much as Shaq has, but take your 5th grade logic out of here.

[Chicago-Rose]

I don't always agree or endorse what Shaq says but I must admit he has provided me with many laughs over the years.
Something that bothered me much more over the years was Shaq's annoying habit of refusing to make eye-contact with the person interviewing him after each game.

I personally find that mumbling while looking off in another direction the entire time as someone is trying to get an interview to be very unflattering.

[Smokee]

Some stats of some great centers on the season they were 36/37 years old :

Hakeem : 10.3 points, 45.8 FG%, 6.2 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 1.59 blocks

Dadid Robinson : 12.2 points, 50.7 FG%, 8.3 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.79 blocks

Ewing : 17.3 points, 43.5 FG%; 9.9 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 2.6 blocks

Shaq : 18.1 points, 60.6 FG%, 8.8 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.5 blocks

Not bad for a guy who's not skilled and is only successful because he has a big body :confusedshrug:


but this isn't even an argument to what i said. All you're doing is comparing him to past greats stat-wise which i'm not arguing. I know he was dominating. But did he have a jumper? Was he a great passer? How were his post moves? Break his 'game' down. I never took anything away from his accomplishments, i can't, but more say how i felt about his 'game' and why i don't like Shaq that much.

I just know how some people here will see different aspects of Shaq's game is going to be exaggerated to hell than what it actually was.

[Smokee]

Comparing him to Lebron isn't crazy at all. Lebron's 3 point shot and midrange jumper is pretty average, possibly below average. And why do you think he's good at driving to the basket? Cause he's been blessed with the strength and speed that is pretty much impossible to stop. If Lebron was 100 lbs lighter he probably wouldn't even be in the league, and thats not a knock on him, cause that goes for many NBA players. Lebron's game is alot about his physical traits, but he doesn't get a knock on for it and neither should Shaq. There's 5 foot nothings in middle school that are probably more "skilled" then a few basketball players including Shaq. Do you respect there "game" more then these NBA player? Every single NBA player is in the league partly due to the luck of having great athleticism and/or size. Even Tim Hardaway, who's got more speed then 99.9% of the world. And you're really underrating Shaq. His spin move, hook shot, floater like A Roc said were always good and have been very good as of late. And like I said before, he was always a good rebounder and good defender, sometimes due to his size and sometimes not. And how do you say being a good passer from the post is not difficult? Of course its difficult. ITS THE NBA. Shaq could've easily been Eddy Curry, but he's not. Yao could've been Shawn Bradley or Gheorge Muresan, but he's not. The reason is cause they obviously have some skill and are better conditioned.


If Lebron were lighter, he'd be quicker. When we're talking about physical attributes, i'm not takiing away Shaq or Lebron's athleticism, more Shaq's size making up for what he lacked. I disagree Lebron's size is 3/4's of his game, he's way more well rounded than most people here seem to want to admit.

The comparison doesn't even hold water. Lebron can actually shoot, post, drive, and dish. What can't he really do well? I guess you can argue he's not a great shooter but i think he's above average. Thats bball 'game' based on more than physical attributes of just being born big.

Now did Shaq have a jumper? Did he have that many post moves as a Laker? Was he a great passer? How did Shaq dominate most of the time, and what do you remember him for mostly? If you say its anything but getting the ball in the post and going up for a dunk or easy lay in then i'll say your memory is extremely flawed. Again he was one of the most dominating players of all time, i'm not taking that away from him, but it wasn't based on him having 'game' more than him being physically dominating. It just makes me laugh how people pretend now he had all of this great footwork, post moves, and could pass so well :rolleyes:

[c_az_a]

The article quotes "Kobe and the Lakers."

Without the Lakers (Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Fisher, Sasha, Ariza), there is no Kobe Bryant. How? Because Kobe would be a lottery team every year. But with the Lakers (Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Fisher, Sasha, Ariza), they make the Lakers a finals team.

[guy]

If Lebron were lighter, he'd be quicker. When we're talking about physical attributes, i'm not takiing away Shaq or Lebron's athleticism, more Shaq's size making up for what he lacked. I disagree Lebron's size is 3/4's of his game, he's way more well rounded than most people here seem to want to admit.

Sure he'd be quicker, but he wouldn't be able to bulldoze through the defense like he usually does. And him being quicker is a physical attribute, so its basically the same situation. Sure, he's well rounded and alot of that has nothing to do with size, but alot of it does. The guy right now is arguably the best player in the league, but if he was Kobe or Wade's size, he wouldn't even be close to being in the discussion.



The comparison doesn't even hold water. Lebron can actually shoot, post, drive, and dish. What can't he really do well? I guess you can argue he's not a great shooter but i think he's above average. Thats bball 'game' based on more than physical attributes of just being born big.

Lebron's not that great of a shooter, not that great in the post, and his driving ability has ALOT to do with his physical attributes.



Now did Shaq have a jumper? Did he have that many post moves as a Laker? Was he a great passer? How did Shaq dominate most of the time, and what do you remember him for mostly? If you say its anything but getting the ball in the post and going up for a dunk or easy lay in then i'll say your memory is extremely flawed. Again he was one of the most dominating players of all time, i'm not taking that away from him, but it wasn't based on him having 'game' more than him being physically dominating. It just makes me laugh how people pretend now he had all of this great footwork, post moves, and could pass so well :rolleyes:

Shaq had great footwork, post moves, and could pass well. Now you ask what will people remember him for the most? Probably going in the post, backing his defender down with ease and dunking on them. But whats your point? That does not mean he wasn't skilled cause he didn't utilize his skills as much. What did you expect him to do? He forced his strength on defenders to get to the basket cause he could and IT WAS EASY. I highly doubt Phil Jackson told Shaq that instead of going into the post and backing his defender down to get an easy efficient dunk, that he should put up a hook shot from outside the lane with a hand in his face. Just cause he didn't showcase it as much, doesn't mean he wasn't skilled at it.

[Mikaiel]

This is why i'm reluctant to get into telling it like it was, and yeah i watched the Lakers a lot. So many morons that hype players as more than they were. When the basis of your offense is a triangle and your post big man of course you are going to get a lot of assists if your perimater players can hit their shots. Are you really going to pretend Shaq was some great passer? :rolleyes: Are you really going to pretend every big man in the league can't shoot jumpers because they are limited from doing that by their size? Are you really going to make it out like Shaq's footwork has much to do with Shaq catching the ball iin the post and going up for a dunk?

I swear realistic discussions here are impossible because of retards like this. They reinvent and exaggerate. ANYONE can catch a ball in the post if they are much bigger than everyone else and go up and put it in, get the **** out of here about this incredible footwork :banghead: Go to your elementary school, go play with 5 yr olds half your size, and tell me how much footwork it takes to catch the ball and put it up against them dumbass.

Ughh nevermind. I knew this would happen, and these idiot bball fans would come here pretending Shaq was so great at everything else, and his size has the least to do with his success. I'll just say i disagree, and i think people like you are the biggest problem with this forum, but typical :rolleyes:

Yeah all right he's not as skilled as Hakeem was for example, and he's been blessed with incredible physical gifts. He was big and yet extremely quick for someone his size. He also had incredible hops, hops someone that big just shouldn't have. But saying he was not talented is wrong.

I'm a post player and I've seen a lot of guys more physically gifted than me and yet they couldn't do anything because they had no footwork or they didn't know how to get good post position on me. Those things believe it or not require work and talent. And Shaq had absolutely no problems doing those things. Dominating your opponent physically is just part of the equation. It's not like he went up against 6'5 skinny white boys out there. Those guys were still NBA players.

He didn't have Hakeem's repertoire on the low-block, but he didn't need to. IMO that's one of the biggest misconceptions in basketball. You don't need 40 moves to be effective. If you have a go-to move and a counter-move, basically that's enough. If you have perfected a hook-shot with either hand, that's enough. Then a few up-and-unders and body fakes and it's perfect. Shaq had all of these weapons. All right not as flashy as Hakeem's post moves, or Ewing's J, but still that takes work and talent. Not just physical gifts.

And don't underrate his passing ability. He's always been a good passer. Not great, but good. Think about all the double or triple teams he's seen in his career and look at how many times he turned the ball over. And not many centers could throw an outlet pass as well as he did too.

[gigantes]

maybe the real problem anymore is that anyone bothers to take shaq's crap seriously.

trust me, shaq will once again turn invisible if any of three things happen: 1) his chronic toe and foot problems return, 2) his always-shaky will to compete drys up again, 3) the refs go back to calling him fairly and not letting him break the 3-second rule or drive through opposing centers' defensive space.

[Prodigy]

If Lebron was 100 pounds lighter he would have the frame of Shaun Livingston. We all know how that turned out.

If we then said that his height was proportionate to his weight he'd be Nate Robinson at BEST.

GTFO with the Lebron would still be great without his physical attributes. Obviously Lebron is gifted as hell as he is a once a generation type of player but you'd have to be a blind moron to say that he could do it without his body build.

As for criticizing Shaq for being big, why can't other players do what he does then? Jerome James, same body mass and build, coordinated, soft hands, good shot, yet a scrub of scrubs. Shaq is an anomaly in terms of coordination, strength, and speed. For the idiot who says that it's easy to just catch a lob pass and dunk over everyone I'd like to see you add 60 pounds and then go to the local rec league and just try to average 15/10. You wouldn't be able to because you'd be so winded just from getting up and down the court. You guys have no idea how hard it is to do the things that Shaq and Yao do. No clue at all.

[yeaaaman]

Are you really going to pretend Shaq was some kind of ****hole passer? I dont think anyone is contending he was steve nash, but Shaq will give the ball up to the open man, thats alot more than can be said about alot of guards in this league.

yes Shaq was bigger and often bullied his way, but the man did have skill you cant deny that. He had a soft touch around the rim and could do that baseline one hand fade away type shot pretty effectively. I dont think anyone says Shaq's size had little to nothing to do with his success, but he had a combination of agility, strength, coordination, and soft hands among other things that helped him be one of the greatest big men of all time.

[Prodigy]

but this isn't even an argument to what i said. All you're doing is comparing him to past greats stat-wise which i'm not arguing. I know he was dominating. But did he have a jumper? Was he a great passer? How were his post moves? Break his 'game' down. I never took anything away from his accomplishments, i can't, but more say how i felt about his 'game' and why i don't like Shaq that much.

I just know how some people here will see different aspects of Shaq's game is going to be exaggerated to hell than what it actually was.


You're right. Shaq wasn't Hakeem in the post. But why should he have had to have that type of game when he had such a physical advantage over his opponents? It would be stupid of him to have a jumper or bankshot if he could outmuscle his opponent in the post for an easy layup or dunk. You're criticizing the man for playing to his strengths instead of needlessly expanding his game and it's very very stupid. Garnett has all those aspects to his game and people criticize him for being a ***** and not playing in the post. It's double standarding.

[c_az_a]

If Lebron was 100 pounds lighter he would have the frame of Shaun Livingston. We all know how that turned out.

If we then said that his height was proportionate to his weight he'd be Nate Robinson at BEST.

GTFO with the Lebron would still be great without his physical attributes. Obviously Lebron is gifted as hell as he is a once a generation type of player but you'd have to be a blind moron to say that he could do it without his body build.

As for criticizing Shaq for being big, why can't other players do what he does then? Jerome James, same body mass and build, coordinated, soft hands, good shot, yet a scrub of scrubs. Shaq is an anomaly in terms of coordination, strength, and speed. For the idiot who says that it's easy to just catch a lob pass and dunk over everyone I'd like to see you add 60 pounds and then go to the local rec league and just try to average 15/10. You wouldn't be able to because you'd be so winded just from getting up and down the court. You guys have no idea how hard it is to do the things that Shaq and Yao do. No clue at all.

Why isn't Big Baby Davis of the Celtics tearing it up? If Shaq could do it, so can Big Baby Davis. Or Tractor Traylor. The guy who the Bucks traded for (in exchange of Dirk). Traylor was big like Shaq. Why didn't he succeed in the NBA?

[Prodigy]

Why isn't Big Baby Davis of the Celtics tearing it up? If Shaq could do it, so can Big Baby Davis. Or Tractor Traylor. The guy who the Bucks traded for (in exchange of Dirk). Traylor was big like Shaq. Why didn't he succeed in the NBA?


Your post says you agree with what I said but the tone of your writing suggests otherwise. :confusedshrug:

[RainierBeachPoet]

are you kidding me?

shaq's ego is one of the most entertaining things that the league has going for it! he will be sorely missed after he retires and the league will be more boring with more cliched quotes from players with milk toast personalities

[Mikaiel]

Why isn't Big Baby Davis of the Celtics tearing it up? If Shaq could do it, so can Big Baby Davis. Or Tractor Traylor. The guy who the Bucks traded for (in exchange of Dirk). Traylor was big like Shaq. Why didn't he succeed in the NBA?

Well Big Baby or Tractor Traylor were nowhere close to Shaq athletically. They didn't have his hops, his quickness or even his muscular build. And they were not 7'1. Shaq has a case for most physically gifted player in NBA history.

[Hoopman2612]

Smokee needs to remove LeBron's **** from his mouth clearly its affecting his brain.

How was Shaq not impressing?

Even if all he did was get lob passes,name any other play who could dominate around the basket like Shaq.

Do you even realize that Shaq was double & triple teamed whenever he got the ball and he still found a way to score or pass the ball out to an open man on the perimter.

Do you even realize that Shaq was so dominate around the basket that teams would foul him because it was the only chance they had of him not scoring 2 points when the Lakers got the ball.

Your a ridiculous hater.

[c_az_a]

Well Big Baby or Tractor Traylor were nowhere close to Shaq athletically. They didn't have his hops, his quickness or even his muscular build. And they were not 7'1. Shaq has a case for most physically gifted player in NBA history.

Then Eddy Curry could be a close interpretation. He's around 6'11. He's pretty big. And why isn't he as dominant as Shaq?

[collusion]

Shaq's ego is the reason that he's so loved. Best personality the NBA has seen in the last 20 years (possible exception: Sir Charles)

[Smokee]

Its pointless. I don't have respect for 1/2 of the sheep posters on this forum anyways, especially when it comes to bball.

I'm not a Lebron fan, or a homer of any team like every one of ya'll *****es here. I'm just a general pretty hardcore bball watching fan. Something most of you fgts aren't. So keep watching your homer teams judging everyone by stats and rings, and overlook what they actually were like your ignorant selves.

Besides its not like half you retards will watch the same **** as i do and come away with some retard opinions anyways. I'm too smart to post here, i swear i'm cursed, back to OT for me :pimp:

[Rockets(T-mac)]

When Shaq retires, half the entertainment in this league will disappear.

[Mikaiel]

Its pointless. I don't have respect for 1/2 of the sheep posters on this forum anyways, especially when it comes to bball.

I'm not a Lebron fan, or a homer of any team like every one of ya'll *****es here. I'm just a general pretty hardcore bball watching fan. Something most of you fgts aren't. So keep watching your homer teams judging everyone by stats and rings, and overlook what they actually were like your ignorant selves.

Besides its not like half you retards will watch the same **** as i do and come away with some retard opinions anyways. I'm too smart to post here, i swear i'm cursed, back to OT for me :pimp:

Yeah you're right, we don't know anything about bball. Drew Gooden is actually more talented than Shaq, we're just too stupid to see it.

Maybe instead of watching basketball you should play it, maybe you would actually understand what you're seeing.

[c_az_a]

Its pointless. I don't have respect for 1/2 of the sheep posters on this forum anyways, especially when it comes to bball.

I'm not a Lebron fan, or a homer of any team like every one of ya'll *****es here. I'm just a general pretty hardcore bball watching fan. Something most of you fgts aren't. So keep watching your homer teams judging everyone by stats and rings, and overlook what they actually were like your ignorant selves.

Besides its not like half you retards will watch the same **** as i do and come away with some retard opinions anyways. I'm too smart to post here, i swear i'm cursed, back to OT for me :pimp:

If you were smart, why are you conversing with the retards. Only guess would be = because you're one.

[gigantes]

Its pointless. I don't have respect for 1/2 of the sheep posters on this forum anyways, especially when it comes to bball.

I'm not a Lebron fan, or a homer of any team like every one of ya'll *****es here. I'm just a general pretty hardcore bball watching fan. Something most of you fgts aren't. So keep watching your homer teams judging everyone by stats and rings, and overlook what they actually were like your ignorant selves.

Besides its not like half you retards will watch the same **** as i do and come away with some retard opinions anyways. I'm too smart to post here, i swear i'm cursed, back to OT for me :pimp:
calm down, stop swearing, and don't take it so hard, man.
99.9% of the posters here have little or no understanding of basketball fundamentals. to them, the highlights and the media have become the game, including a game driven by egotistical multimillionaires who have no idea what life is like outside of their stubborn little bubble.

[jrong]

I can't stand Shaq for several reasons, one of the least of which is his ego. I can't stand Shaq because he burns bridges behind him every time he leaves a team. I can't stand Shaq because he stops trying when he's not happy with his team situation or just refuses to suit up because of "injury". I can't stand Shaq because he's snowed the media and many fans into thiking he's a good guy when really he's just a lazy, petulant, underacvhiever.

[Smokee]

Yeah all right he's not as skilled as Hakeem was for example, and he's been blessed with incredible physical gifts. He was big and yet extremely quick for someone his size. He also had incredible hops, hops someone that big just shouldn't have. But saying he was not talented is wrong.

I'm a post player and I've seen a lot of guys more physically gifted than me and yet they couldn't do anything because they had no footwork or they didn't know how to get good post position on me. Those things believe it or not require work and talent. And Shaq had absolutely no problems doing those things. Dominating your opponent physically is just part of the equation. It's not like he went up against 6'5 skinny white boys out there. Those guys were still NBA players.

He didn't have Hakeem's repertoire on the low-block, but he didn't need to. IMO that's one of the biggest misconceptions in basketball. You don't need 40 moves to be effective. If you have a go-to move and a counter-move, basically that's enough. If you have perfected a hook-shot with either hand, that's enough. Then a few up-and-unders and body fakes and it's perfect. Shaq had all of these weapons. All right not as flashy as Hakeem's post moves, or Ewing's J, but still that takes work and talent. Not just physical gifts.

And don't underrate his passing ability. He's always been a good passer. Not great, but good. Think about all the double or triple teams he's seen in his career and look at how many times he turned the ball over. And not many centers could throw an outlet pass as well as he did too.


I just don't think he was as well rounded 'game' - wise as you say. He was a ok passer out of the post. He had no jumper and this is one of the bigger things i hold against him, where his size made up for it. How many big man can get away with a shot like Shaq's? I'm not saying he wasn't athletic he clearly was for his size so i'll give him that. I don't think he had extraordinary leaping ability tho. He had very little post moves, more now and with the Heat than he had with the Lakers. But i just think people are kidding themselves if they think Shaq's success wasn't based 3/4's on his size. Saying he didn't have to have well rounded game isn't addressing what i said. My criticism against him isn't that he wasn't dominating as he was, more that i didn't respect his 'game'. Then again rings don't mean nearly to me being a fan of a player than what they were as basketball players. Like i said i loved Timmy Hardaway, i love Baron's game, i respect people who have that just natural NBA 'game' and ability to play it.

And understand this isn't about Shaq being a great dominating NBA legend which he was, more than my measurement of a player i respect and enjoy watching a lot, and i just don't agree with a lot of how people hype different aspects of Shaq's game being more than it was, not based on his size :confusedshrug:

Its pointless tho since i've had this same argument before and there are way too many people here that think Shaq was the ultimate NBA big man or some ****, that had no weakness. Again its not about getting by or he didn't have to be any better than he was, more than what i saw from his 'game' and respected/liked, and there wasn't that much with him as far as having 'game'.

[step_back]

harsh words from shaq. Dwight best go out there tonight and have a good game.

shaq was/ is superman. Dwight needs to be himself and continue to improve although with the form of his jumper I can't see how much better he will get.

[Smokee]

calm down, stop swearing, and don't take it so hard, man.
99.9% of the posters here have little or no understanding of basketball fundamentals. to them, the highlights and the media have become the game, including a game driven by egotistical multimillionaires who have no idea what life is like outside of their stubborn little bubble.


I'm not angry, more than resigned to knowing how this forum of posters are, and knew this was going to happen pages ago where i was reluctant to even get into saying how i felt about Shaq. I knew this would happen. Its happened before when discussing Shaq and bringing up any criticisms of him here.

I only responded to Mikail because he was like the only one that responded level headed. I don't even think its worth arguing with all the Lebron haters mixed into this, and having to deal with that whole separate issues of posters here. I just can't see how people can honestly say Lebron is all size like Shaq is, but like i said they aren't worth the time :ohwell:

[kNIOKAS]

Shaq's ego is the reason that he's so loved. Best personality the NBA has seen in the last 20 years (possible exception: Sir Charles)
really depends on what you call best personality... shaq lacks consistency, self-respect and ... how it's called "not-being-silly". if your concept of "best personality" is based on colour, controversy, eccentrics and ability of enterntain, well, maybe shaq is your option.

[DTD]

I actually thought it was insulting and disrespectful to Shaq to be parading around with that cape and Superman outfit. Does Howard live under a rock? Did he not know Shaq has the Superman tattooed to his arm for Christs sake? Shaq has the Superman logo on every car grill and gate on his homes.

Howard is an amazing player, but find your own shtick. Shaq is the only Superman in the NBA. It's as if Kevin Harlan started yelling popular Chickisms and trying to claim them as his own.

Just totally unoriginal by DH. I'd be peeved if I was Shaq too. Get your own persona dude.

[Smokee]

Yeah you're right, we don't know anything about bball. Drew Gooden is actually more talented than Shaq, we're just too stupid to see it.

Maybe instead of watching basketball you should play it, maybe you would actually understand what you're seeing.


lol i just saw this. Gooden is actually a great example of ISH forum ignorance. Probably one of the better examples i could think of.

I replied to you btw, but go ahead pretending because someone 'coached' or played high school bball, that they know more than someone who is way more insightful and direct with regularity here than 3/4's of them Porter/Avery supporters :rolleyes:

Maybe watch a team other than your homer one to know any better, and stop assuming because you played bball like most of us here have, or coached, or even are a GM/Owner of some pro team you know more than someone judging directly on having watched everything he talks about, and are way more confident in their opinion than most of the other posters here for a reason :pimp:

[gigantes]

I actually thought it was insulting and disrespectful to Shaq to be parading around with that cape and Superman outfit. Does Howard live under a rock? Did he not know Shaq has the Superman tattooed to his arm for Christs sake? Shaq has the Superman logo on every car grill and gate on his homes.
am i the only one who sees the irony in this?

one guy calls howard 'disrespectful for copping shaq's superman act' while shaq was arguably even more disrespectful for copping the superman act in the first place.

i mean, a character who was invented over 75 years ago and had absolutely nothing to do with a big, black basketball player? shaq couldn't come up with anything better than stealing that act? even the wayans bros managed to come up with "blankman"...

sheesh.

[D-Rose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujl9rx-RURo&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

:oldlol:

[highwhey]

His ego makes him Shaq.

Shaq's ego alone>>>>>D12

[Stringer Bell]

Shaq in his prime is like Mike Tyson in his prime in the respect that everyone was scared of them. It wasn't Shaq's 'skills' or 'game' more than him just being this huge dominating figure in the paint that nobody wanted or could stand in front of.


Tyson had skills in his peak (which declined) to go with his power, not everyone feared him, and Shaq also had skills to go with his size as well.

Hakeem level skills, no, but still, more skills than most centers out there. One of his biggest weapons was always his short baby hook. He had good spin moves in the post. He loved to go in the center of the paint and drop the baby hook, but he learned to go the other way and drop in that short one-handed shot from the block. He improved his passing abilities. One of his biggest weaknesses (besides the obvious charity stripe) I thought was defending centers who could hit the mid range jumper. Although Shaq was more dominant in the early 00s, he was lighter and quicker early in his career and harder to exploit in this extent.

[JustinJDW]

I will admit, I never was that impressed with Dwight. While people were all talking about his Dunks and his Game, I was thinking about how great Jameer Nelson was. In my eyes, half of Dwight's Game is Jameer Nelson. Dwight is only as good as Jameer and the rest of the Orlando Cast lets him be.

Bottom Line, I don't think Dwight can create his own shot as well as the other Elite Big Men in this League. Duncan, Garnett, Yao, Shaq, all of them can create their own shot with a side of perfection on it. Dwight is someone who I think needs help in that category.

However, I don't think that is any reason to start bashing him a bit like people are doing in this Thread. Dwight has never talked trash to anyone. He has never talked down to anyone. He never claimed to be anything other than a great guy with a great personality and a love for Basketball. Although I think Dwight is overrated, I can never call him a bad guy.

PS: This gives me a good reason to watch the Suns vs. Magic Game Tonight. :D

[Godfather]

Another disgruntled Lakers fan...

The only demographic that is complaining about Shaq after his recent play.

[Prodigy]

I just can't see how people can honestly say Lebron is all size like Shaq is, but like i said they aren't worth the time :ohwell:

Lebron has skills to his game. But take 100 lbs off of him and would he or would he not have the exact same frame as Shaun Livingston?

Answer me.

Would someone weighing in at 160 who is 6'8 be able to to plow through defenders and finish at the rim? I'm not hating. I am being objective here and merely looking at the scenario people posed.

No one is going to argue that Lebron has great vision and passing for a small foward. People ARE saying he would be a fringe player without his combination of strength and speed ala Shaq.

[Godfather]

Lebron has skills to his game. But take 100 lbs off of him and would he or would he not have the exact same frame as Shaun Livingston?

Answer me.

Would someone weighing in at 160 who is 6'8 be able to to plow through defenders and finish at the rim? I'm not hating. I am being objective here and merely looking at the scenario people posed.

No one is going to argue that Lebron has great vision and passing for a small foward. People ARE saying he would be a fringe player without his combination of strength and speed ala Shaq.

Take 100 pounds off Kobe and he would die of anorexia.

[Stacey King]

Take 100 pounds off Kobe and he would die of anorexia.

Take 100 pounds off of anybody and their game (not to mention their life) changes dramatically. It's a pointless variable to throw out there.

[guy]

But i just think people are kidding themselves if they think Shaq's success wasn't based 3/4's on his size.

I'd say about 75% of his success is based on size/athleticism, maybe even more. But I'd probably say that about most of the league, including Lebron, which has been my point. And you have only been pointing out size it seems. When I talk about Lebron, I'm pointing out everything, including his size, speed, leaping ability, i.e. god given abilities. These are things that only a small percentage of people get. Sure, they get credit for being able to maintain their shape, but its still something their born with. Thats why I believe if your going to discredit Shaq for having most of his success based on what he's been born with, you might as well do that for everyone.

[west_tip]

I read those comments in the Sporting News last week and tend to agree with the OP.

Shaq is charismatic and funny but he should wind his neck in a little bit. The comments about Dwight just seem a little unneccessary and trashy, why does Shaq always have to talk sh*t about people :confusedshrug:

[Maniak]

Shaq is straight up killing it all.

Haters please hate, hes the straight up MAN right now.

Its trash talking, and its a part of the game. All the greats did it, and Shaq aint no different.

[Godfather]

Take 100 pounds off of anybody and their game (not to mention their life) changes dramatically. It's a pointless variable to throw out there.

I was pointing out the absurdity of the original commenter's position.

I am glad you caught on.

[gyu]

I can see why Kobe couldn't stand him.

[Godfather]

I can see why Kobe couldn't stand him.

Phil couldn't stand Kobe, but loved Shaq...

He even wrote a book about it.

[gyu]

Phil couldn't stand Kobe, but loved Shaq...

He even wrote a book about it.
I just bought it today and read the first chapter, doesnt come off like he loves Shaq. Sure didn't like the injured on company time recover on company time

[Godfather]

I just bought it today and read the first chapter, doesnt come off like he loves Shaq. Sure didn't like the injured on company time recover on company time

Whose complaining when you deliver 3 epic finals performances and 3 rings?

That's what I thought.

[04mzwach]

I guess if Dwight never wore the Superman people wouldn't say he's trying to be like Shaq?

What did Shaq do again with Superman? I have this image of him wearing a Superman T shirt or whatever, but i can't remember why :confusedshrug: I know he wasn't in the dunk contest so i'm trying to remember in what context he wore it.

Does this look familiar? Notice the arm.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_bDp_461J7XsAVh2jzbkF/SIG=12h22mn4o/EXP=1236219135/**http%3A//www.hitchaser.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/shaq2.jpg

[Smokee]

Lebron has skills to his game. But take 100 lbs off of him and would he or would he not have the exact same frame as Shaun Livingston?

Answer me.

Would someone weighing in at 160 who is 6'8 be able to to plow through defenders and finish at the rim? I'm not hating. I am being objective here and merely looking at the scenario people posed.

No one is going to argue that Lebron has great vision and passing for a small foward. People ARE saying he would be a fringe player without his combination of strength and speed ala Shaq.


You're all not giving Lebron enough credit. I think Lebron would still be great without being as big as he is. Maybe he'd end up a SG/G if he wasn't as big as he was since he's at the least a above average passer and all around in most of his game :confusedshrug: So i disagree. I also think there are lots of other players Lebrons size. So its not like he's physically dominating everyone quite like Shaq was/is.

Sometimes i forget just how huge Shaq is. Then i see him next to Dwight who already towers over people and it hits me. He's like Dwight's height with 5x's the body to him.

I'm really just wondering how many Centers out there can get away with having no jumper, poor ft, and not that great post moves :confusedshrug:

[Smokee]

I'd say about 75% of his success is based on size/athleticism, maybe even more. But I'd probably say that about most of the league, including Lebron, which has been my point. And you have only been pointing out size it seems. When I talk about Lebron, I'm pointing out everything, including his size, speed, leaping ability, i.e. god given abilities. These are things that only a small percentage of people get. Sure, they get credit for being able to maintain their shape, but its still something their born with. Thats why I believe if your going to discredit Shaq for having most of his success based on what he's been born with, you might as well do that for everyone.


But i'm just talking about size relative to others in the league. Players who D them up. Or come over to help. There have been times Shaq has had like 3 people on him and still dunked. That stuff isn't possible without such a huge size advantage. My criticism was about having 'game' btw not that he isn't one of the most dominating players in NBA history.

[sommervilleCdn]

He has no short jumper or even a jumper at all, really. I mean i guess he can occasionally hit a bank when he's close to the glass leaning in, but i
Comparing him to Lebron is crazy. Lebron has all around game. He can shoot the 3, shoot midrange, drive, dish, etc. Lebron is like the opposite of Shaq.

Shaq was just way more 1 dimensional than people want to remember him for imo.

Shaq in his prime is like Mike Tyson in his prime:oldlol: in the respect that everyone was scared of them. It wasn't Shaq's 'skills' or 'game' more than him just being this huge dominating figure in the paint that nobody wanted or could stand in front of.

I just don't buy the reinventing history that a lot of people here tend to do, that pretend Shaq had all of this 'game' (YES HE DID) when he really didn't imo :confusedshrug:

I don't know what you'll make of these old orlando clips of shaq smokee. But I think they'll surprise you.

Slim jim/rookie shaq, plays like a "2" in a 7ft's body...that's goat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhs-xK7Lvms (fade away here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM-eBOLMrOU&feature=related (watch him go coast-to-coast @ 3:25min mark)


//shaq has more talent in his little pinky than Big Z or Yao combined. :eek:

[Younggrease]

But i'm just talking about size relative to others in the league. Players who D them up. Or come over to help. There have been times Shaq has had like 3 people on him and still dunked. That stuff isn't possible without such a huge size advantage. My criticism was about having 'game' btw not that he isn't one of the most dominating players in NBA history.

Funny its not just size...He isnt the most massive player to pick up a ball. Its his athletic package that allows him to dominate. Who can exert that much force and keep there balance and display touch around the rim. But if your gonna start calling out shaq for relying on his athletic ability then there are a whole lot more players that need to be called out. Shaq has had an aelite post game for years. Tell me how many 7 footers in the NBA have a drop step to either side, a spin move to either side, the ability and vision to reverse seal and the hands to finish the play...then tell on top of that they are also have the ability to face up bigger players and have an Championship offense ran through them because of there passing ability(he saw tons of different doubles and triple teams.

So if you wanna penalize players for not have a game then Shaq is the not near the list to prove. But in order to realize that you would have to have some knowledge of the mechanics of the post game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUE_0LRxtpU&feature=PlayList&p=129675C4FC7AD6B4&playnext=1&index=2

the move at 4:30 thats not just size. The is just a superior athlete with superior skills

[guy]

But i'm just talking about size relative to others in the league. Players who D them up. Or come over to help. There have been times Shaq has had like 3 people on him and still dunked. That stuff isn't possible without such a huge size advantage. My criticism was about having 'game' btw not that he isn't one of the most dominating players in NBA history.

Okay well there's so many great players that have had a significant advantage over their peers because of their combination of size/speed/athleticism/etc. Hakeem and Robinson were freaks because of their speed at their size. Jordan was stronger and faster then pretty much everyone that defended against him, and the same can be said about Lebron. Magic was much bigger then all the PGs he went up against. I don't really even need to mention Wilt. Now I would say all those players were more skilled then Shaq, but that doesn't mean that Shaq didn't have any skills, and that doesn't mean all those guy swere only great cause they were more physically gifted.

[mongePR(kb24)]

Yea I agree. Everyone says Kobe is trying to be Jordan but its not anywhere near as bad as Dwight trying to be Shaq. Could you imagine if Kobe stuck his tongue out all the time, did the chalk thing, and called himself Air Kobe? He would get crucified even more for it. Another thing about Dwight I don't like is his some of his attempts at humor. Its not funny and you could tell he's trying to be a big clown like Shaq. I'm sure some of that is just his personality, but I think he also just wants to have that label after Shaq leaves.

HAHAHHA, basically dwight calling himself superman, is like kobe calling himself air kobe ! Imagine that for a second. The day he says that, that will be the end of ish's database lol.

[clayton]

There will never be another Superman.

[omarnyc]

am i the only one who sees the irony in this?

one guy calls howard 'disrespectful for copping shaq's superman act' while shaq was arguably even more disrespectful for copping the superman act in the first place.

i mean, a character who was invented over 75 years ago and had absolutely nothing to do with a big, black basketball player? shaq couldn't come up with anything better than stealing that act? even the wayans bros managed to come up with "blankman"...

sheesh.

so you saying because shaq is black he shouldnt call himself superman? this makes no sense especially since superman was originally a comic book character. shaq started calling himself superman because of the way he dominated the league, he was bigger and stronger than everybody else. howard should have at least waited for shaq to retire before he jacked his style. the superman name dont even fit howard, he dont over power and dominate the entire league the way shaq did.

[vincentda]

What did Shaq do again with Superman?

It wasn't just Shaq but also the Orlando Magic that participated in this Shaq/Superman stuff. During the early years, everytime Shaq had a dunk they would place a superman logo/card on the front of the scorers table.

Shaq's first rides in Orlando was just silly and IMO stupid with all of the Superman logos everywhere. He also put a big superman tattoo on his arm and on his 3rd album the intro was a remix of the Superman theme music.

[halffttime]

I don't always agree or endorse what Shaq says but I must admit he has provided me with many laughs over the years.
Something that bothered me much more over the years was Shaq's annoying habit of refusing to make eye-contact with the person interviewing him after each game.

I personally find that mumbling while looking off in another direction the entire time as someone is trying to get an interview to be very unflattering.

lol how do you even notice something like that.. weird

[gleden]

All the respect i had for Shaq is gone after he said something that is very offending to chris bosh, and then dwight howard(all within a week)

[halffttime]

show me a fkn clip where shaq dunks on 3 ppl due to sheer power.

if it rly happened its defenitely on the interwebz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5UBEqajUC8

^
2:19

[VCMVP1551]

Since Brick Bank obviously didn't want Shaq in his prime here are some highlights that show his great post game.

Check out this post move
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLDXw5lC-LM

When I watch that I think of the powerful slam second. That quick fluid footwork and the post move impresses me far more.

Shaq fastbreaks with the Lakers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCvTmmj6QUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsWuHblBwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU3SpoF_Irs

Now how many big men could do that? Much less 7'1", 350+ players. It's viewed as impressive when any player gets a rebound and goes coast to coast like Shaq did in the 2nd clip.


Shaq's crossover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bI5upZ35Gk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2NrAqQr4

Shaq's size, strength and athleticism helped a lot, but his game wouldn't have nearly been what it was without his skill.

Shaq had many moves even back in his Laker days. Drop step, baseline spin, jump hook, one-handed jumper, up and under and he'd even throw in a few more from time to time. His post game wasn't up there with Hakeem's as far as moves, but he had much better post moves than David Robinson or Patrick Ewing.

Shaq hasn't been viewed as one of the best passing big men for no reason either. He often gives his teammates good solid passes and he's very capable of making difficult passes.

Hell even his ball handling ability is great for a center.

[Chicago-Rose]

I don't always agree or endorse what Shaq says but I must admit he has provided me with many laughs over the years.
Something that bothered me much more over the years was Shaq's annoying habit of refusing to make eye-contact with the person interviewing him after each game.

I personally find that mumbling while looking off in another direction the entire time as someone is trying to get an interview to be very unflattering.

No one else is bothered by this habit?

[Lone Laker]

The mumbling? Yes. Not looking into people's eyes? Well, Shaq is certainly not the only insincere player in the NBA...

[gigantes]

so you saying because shaq is black he shouldnt call himself superman?
no, but to speak in a language you can understand:
"i'se saying shaq shouldn't call himself 'superman' cuz dat been ol' an' played, doggidy dog."


this makes no sense especially since superman was originally a comic book character.
so....?
how does it make no sense?
your logic is that only a previous basketball player would have been allowed to call themselves "superman" before shaq?

what crap.


shaq started calling himself superman because of the way he dominated the league, he was bigger and stronger than everybody else. howard should have at least waited for shaq to retire before he jacked his style. the superman name dont even fit howard, he dont over power and dominate the entire league the way shaq did.
bullcrap.
howard DOES overpower and dominate the entire league against everyone except yao.

also, you totally forget that there was ANOTHER superman in shaq's era, reggie miller.

[Mikaiel]

. How many big man can get away with a shot like Shaq's?

No one, but that's the reason he's Shaq. Why would you want him taking 15 footers when he can kill you every single possession in the low-post ? That's like saying Tim Duncan has a crappy crossover dribble. He didn't need to have that in his repertoire because that would have taken him out his game.

That's kinda like all these people who say LeBron needs a 3 point shot. That's not his game. His game is attacking the rim, why would you want him 25 feet away from the basket ? It doesn't make any sense. A mid-range game would be a lot more useful.


I don't think he had extraordinary leaping ability tho.

How many big men his size could jump like him ? Eddy Curry or Tractor Traylor could barely get off the floor. Shaq in his prime could do 360 dunks and catch alley-oops. He's no Dwight Howard but for his size he was a great leaper.


But i just think people are kidding themselves if they think Shaq's success wasn't based 3/4's on his size.

Well of course, if anyone says something like that he's stupid. So you do agree the other 25% was talent right ? You argued he had very little game and was lucky he was a freak, but then you admit that was only part of the equation and basically that's what I was trying to say. :confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

Shaq ego is big but alot of things he says are in jest to me. He says things that if you cant sit there and laugh? Then making you are takin his comments way too seriously. Like last night he said "I'm too old to be trying to outscore 18yr olds". Thats funny as hell. He has a great sense of humor that people dont get it seems. Maybe you guys were victims of trash talkin growing up and didnt take it well. It took you out of your game and you felt cheated. I dunno. But the things Shaq says are comedy.

Who tells someone to google me to check my history. The fact is people use google to reference and find info on an array of topics. He tied that all in. Laugh at Shaq. Either with or at him. But laugh.

[Rolando]

Shaq puts fans in the seats and is a big media draw. He earns his big paycheck that way. His ego is what makes him work so hard this late in his career. He shows up a tries his hardest to play against young guys who simply cannot dominate Shaq. Howard fought hard for a draw against an old man last night. Props to the Big Cactus!

[GOBB]

Shaq also flopped. lol

+1 Dwight

[wozzler]

You do realise everyone in the NBA is in the league due to their athleticism/size?

I could go to my closest basketball gym and find 10 guys who can shoot an outside jumper better than Lebron, it doesn't mean jack. I can't believe you're trying to discredit Shaq for making the most of his strong points, thats what all basketball players should do.

Sometimes I think the more specialized a player is in an certain field the better, Sheed is a prime example of that, having a decent three point shot has actually proved detrimental to his game.

[Rolando]

Shaq also flopped. lol

+1 Dwight

I didn't see the game....probably deserves its own thread. That would be highly UnShaq to flop...

[GOBB]

First time I've ever seen him do it. Steve Van Gundy threw shots at Shaq too post game about flopping.

[huppcap]

I get a bit sick of the Superman reference to either of these guys.

The fact is Shaquille O'Neal is alot what he is because of the body he was born into. Same goes for Dwight Howard. Neither can shoot free throws or shoot from 6 feet out for that matter. Sure they are great at the centre position but how many dunks do they have between them in their careers. They were born big and dunk and have some agility for their size which again they were born with.

O'Neal has an advantage with just his shear size. He just pushes other players around half the time and rarely gets called for 3 seconds for parking in the lane. If the referees actually did not treat O'Neal differently in the lane and did call 3 seconds it would change his game.

[Smokee]

No one, but that's the reason he's Shaq. Why would you want him taking 15 footers when he can kill you every single possession in the low-post ? That's like saying Tim Duncan has a crappy crossover dribble. He didn't need to have that in his repertoire because that would have taken him out his game.

That's kinda like all these people who say LeBron needs a 3 point shot. That's not his game. His game is attacking the rim, why would you want him 25 feet away from the basket ? It doesn't make any sense. A mid-range game would be a lot more useful.



How many big men his size could jump like him ? Eddy Curry or Tractor Traylor could barely get off the floor. Shaq in his prime could do 360 dunks and catch alley-oops. He's no Dwight Howard but for his size he was a great leaper.



Well of course, if anyone says something like that he's stupid. So you do agree the other 25% was talent right ? You argued he had very little game and was lucky he was a freak, but then you admit that was only part of the equation and basically that's what I was trying to say. :confusedshrug:


I never said Shaq had no talent, if anything i said he was a pretty average passer out of the post, had below average post moves, and no jumper. But when he got position and a lob in, he could dunk almost every time. That was his bread and butter of domination.

I think its hilarious all the dumbasses in this thread point to a youtube clip of him doing a crossover, hitting a fadeaway, and then pretend those were with any regularity or a regular part of his game, but people are retards here like i said. They just don't get the context of what i'm saying, and over-exaggerating Shaq ten-fold if they honestly believe he could regularly pull that **** off or was really good at that stuff like they try and portray pointing to some youtube clip :rolleyes: His post game with the Lakers wasn't nearly as refined as it is now.

Lebron having a 3 pt shot extends his game. Just like Rasheed. You can't say that makes their game worse, more than their decision making and laziness being the problem. Its like when VC used to just jack up jumper after jumper when his athleticism and driving was his best attribute. He had a good jumper, he just ended up relying on it too much at times but thats on his decision making, not this silly idea it makes his game worse because he's more willing to shoot it from out there :rolleyes:

I never said Shaq wasn't athletic btw, i just don't think he could jump through the roof, or do a 360. Maybe he could in his younger days but i'm more talking about his prime domination era with the Lakers :confusedshrug: I've seen him dunk hard often and pull his legs up which makes it look like he jumped higher and with more authority, but i just don't think he was some great leaper. If you put him next to Yao or some lanky immobile, more skill based big man then sure. But if you put him next to a Dwight Howard then no.

Anyways i said what i've had to say. Shaq's size meant more to his game/domination than anyone elses builds meant to theirs. Like i said there are players bigger than Lebron, lots of them. There aren't many, if any players bigger than Shaq, but thats what makes Shaq, Shaq. Yeah i'll give him that 25% being athleticism, some skills, etc. but i think that ratio favoring size domination is more uneven than any other player in the league because they don't have it like he did, which was my initial point :ohwell:

[Smokee]

Shaq also flopped. lol

+1 Dwight


yeah i saw taht last night :lol He made Dwight's spin move look like a highlight reel way more than it should've been. I wish Dwight would've stared him down or talked some ****. what a ***** :ohwell:

[Smokee]

Shaq ego is big but alot of things he says are in jest to me. He says things that if you cant sit there and laugh? Then making you are takin his comments way too seriously. Like last night he said "I'm too old to be trying to outscore 18yr olds". Thats funny as hell. He has a great sense of humor that people dont get it seems. Maybe you guys were victims of trash talkin growing up and didnt take it well. It took you out of your game and you felt cheated. I dunno. But the things Shaq says are comedy.

Who tells someone to google me to check my history. The fact is people use google to reference and find info on an array of topics. He tied that all in. Laugh at Shaq. Either with or at him. But laugh.


I can agree with some of this, but i think a lot of times the stuff Shaq says he means, like all of the Kobe stuff. Then after-the-fact goes back on it and pretends he was just messing around, and they were friends the whole time :rolleyes: He plays it both ways and its untruthful to give him credit for messing around every time he's talked **** or made dumb statements.

I mean saying Wade was the best player he ever played with after he got to Miami was real. Then after he went to the Sun's and him and Kobe had already made up by then, while Kobe was getting all of this hype for the Lakers turn around, he goes back and says Kobe is the best player he's ever played with :ohwell: He just constantly talks **** out his ass. I'm pretty sure he even talked **** about Phil one time in response to Phil making some honest criticisms about Shaq to the media. These statements i can see him kind of messing around, but if i were Dwight, especially Bosh, i'd be like wtf did i say to deserve those shots from that fat lazy **** that got by on physically dominating size more than anything :ohwell: I mean they have friends and family, someone is calling you the Rupaul of the NBA out of nowhere. Or even just dissing you like he did Dwight saying you haven't done **** out of the blue, how would you feel?

[juju151111]

I never said Shaq had no talent, if anything i said he was a pretty average passer out of the post, had below average post moves, and no jumper. But when he got position and a lob in, he could dunk almost every time. That was his bread and butter of domination.

I think its hilarious all the dumbasses in this thread point to a youtube clip of him doing a crossover, hitting a fadeaway, and then pretend those were with any regularity or a regular part of his game, but people are retards here like i said. They just don't get the context of what i'm saying, and over-exaggerating Shaq ten-fold if they honestly believe he could regularly pull that **** off or was really good at that stuff like they try and portray pointing to some youtube clip :rolleyes: His post game with the Lakers wasn't nearly as refined as it is now.

Lebron having a 3 pt shot extends his game. Just like Rasheed. You can't say that makes their game worse, more than their decision making and laziness being the problem. Its like when VC used to just jack up jumper after jumper when his athleticism and driving was his best attribute. He had a good jumper, he just ended up relying on it too much at times but thats on his decision making, not this silly idea it makes his game worse because he's more willing to shoot it from out there :rolleyes:

I never said Shaq wasn't athletic btw, i just don't think he could jump through the roof, or do a 360. Maybe he could in his younger days but i'm more talking about his prime domination era with the Lakers :confusedshrug: I've seen him dunk hard often and pull his legs up which makes it look like he jumped higher and with more authority, but i just don't think he was some great leaper. If you put him next to Yao or some lanky immobile, more skill based big man then sure. But if you put him next to a Dwight Howard then no.

Anyways i said what i've had to say. Shaq's size meant more to his game/domination than anyone elses builds meant to theirs. Like i said there are players bigger than Lebron, lots of them. There aren't many, if any players bigger than Shaq, but thats what makes Shaq, Shaq. Yeah i'll give him that 25% being athleticism, some skills, etc. but i think that ratio favoring size domination is more uneven than any other player in the league because they don't have it like he did, which was my initial point :ohwell:
LOL Shaq did a 360 dunk with the Lakers and always had post moves.

[Toizumi]

I get a bit sick of the Superman reference to either of these guys.

The fact is Shaquille O'Neal is alot what he is because of the body he was born into. Same goes for Dwight Howard. Neither can shoot free throws or shoot from 6 feet out for that matter. Sure they are great at the centre position but how many dunks do they have between them in their careers. They were born big and dunk and have some agility for their size which again they were born with.

O'Neal has an advantage with just his shear size. He just pushes other players around half the time and rarely gets called for 3 seconds for parking in the lane. If the referees actually did not treat O'Neal differently in the lane and did call 3 seconds it would change his game.

Superman was also born into that body of steel of his :D he had had an advantage being indestructable and having lasereyes and stuff.

[Smokee]

why dont u just go ahead and tell us u never watched shaq play pre-miami(or even in miami im starting to believe).

he created AT MINIMUM at least 70% of his shots(just like today).

Because i've probably watched NBA longer than you have, and anyone that followed NBA watched the Championship Lakers with Shaq. ITs not like they weren't on 24/7.

If you talk about created, by getting post position, and a lob in, then sure. If you're talking crossovers, fadeaways, and all these incredible post moves then you're reinventing history or pointing to one time where it worked and he got lucky and made the shot where theres a youtube clip of it because it was so rare.

[Smokee]

and lol @ u saying yao has more post moves than shaq. u rly r an ignorant fool. everything uve hold agaisnt him, weve proven false either with videos or strong arguments yet u continue to argue.

and btw heres videos of shaq doing a 360 in his lakers days like u asked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3I4vlSYRFA

mother****er.


You're a moron if you don't think Yao has more post moves than Shaq. Thats a no brainer period. But its retards like you that make me wonder about the people who post here and how they remember/see things :ohwell:

and stop posting one clip like it proves that was some regular part of his game or he could do that regularly or did.

[Younggrease]

], had below average post moves

I think its hilarious all the dumbasses in this thread

Well saying Shaq had below average post moves is probably the dumbest thing said in this thread. So maybe you should look in the mirror before calling someone a dumbass.

Im waiting to see the half of the league with better post moves then Shaq...

[Smokee]

Well saying Shaq had below average post moves is probably the dumbest thing said in this thread. So maybe you should look in the mirror before calling someone a dumbass.

Im waiting to see the half of the league with better post moves then Shaq...


I bet you're going to reinvent Shaq being fat and lazy with the Lakers now too, hell might as well, since you keep exaggerating everything else he was.

There are a LOT more centers with more refiined post games than Shaq had with the Lakers, but they had/have to have them because its not like they were Shaq, and could physically dominate based on mostly size. Like i said earlier, how many Centers can get away with no jumper?

Sooo many people love to reinvent **** here :rolleyes:

[DoubleTech]

more of shaq's post moves on display:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifDl0fNDEr0

[Mikaiel]

If you talk about created, by getting post position, and a lob in, then sure.

What exactly do you call a lob in ? Like when he's fronted and the guard lobs it over Shaq's defender to get him the ball or to initiate an alley-oop ? Yeah he did score a lot with that kind of plays, but that's not all he did.

He also received the ball in the low block with his back to the basket and he would back his man down with a crab dribble (a real crab dribble, not LeBron's version of a crab dribble) and then do his move. He didn't have Hakeem's or McHale's expertise but he was more than decent. He could drop step to either side and finish with a hook-shot, he could do an up-and-under, very decent footwork. He had his "black tornado" move where he would spin amazingly quickly when he felt his defender was pushing towards him too hard. All this is not below-average. Okay he used his athleticsm and the fact he was so big a lot, but he did have all those things. That is in no way below-average. It's far from Hakeem or McHale but again, not below-average. Maybe call it basic, simple, unimpressive, without flair, but not below-average when a huge amount of centers in this league can't even do those things.

No one is saying he was the best skilled big man of all time or anything, but below-average is just wrong. Even with the physical advantage he had.

If you want to knock on his post game, talk about how he rarely used his left hand when the situation called for a left-handed shot.