Why do people overrate Larry Bird and Magic Johnson?

[BirdOverrated]

People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability
-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot
-Slow, weak player
-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)

-3 MVPs in a row (Yet would he even be a top 5 player in today's NBA)
Shaquille O'neal (Most dominant Center ever): 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever) : 1 MVP
Lebron James (Best SF all time): 0 MVP


Magic Johnson:

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards
-0 All Defensive teams
-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot
-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

Why do people overlook their shortcomings and their weaknessess. Is it the whole "rivalry" thing and all the footage shown of them on ESPN, NBATV? Why do people overrate them?

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

Why does no one care that both Magic and Bird were horrible defenders?

Bird and Magic Combined: 1 All-Defensive team.
Kobe: 8 All-Defensive teams

How does in anyone in their right mind put Bird and Magic ahead of DOMINANT player like Shaq and Kobe who have raised the boundaries of the sport and constitued rule changes through their dominance??

Offensively players like Kobe and Shaq are just way more dominant and way better than those guys too. Heck even Lebron is better than both oft hem.

Shaq, Kobe, Lebron>>>>>>Magic and Bird in Rankings. Easily.

[Showtime]

^ says somebody who didn't watch one SECOND of their careers.

I have a question:

why are so in love with your idol that you must downgrade the other all time greats and overrated today's league in order for him to look better? You just can't stand the fact that people still think Bird and Magic > Kobe. Even a fellow Laker fan WHO WATCHED THOSE PLAYERS PLAY disagrees with your opinion. Get bent.

[quasimoto]

-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever)

:roll:

[iamgine]

Where's my troll food...I can't feed the troll without my troll food! Gosh-darn it!

[BankShot]

How can you make such brash comments about players you obviously never, ever, watched?? Bulls*it.

Kobe's the most dominant perimeter player ever?? STFU you damn troll.

Fail. :no:

[BirdOverrated]

:roll:

There is no question that he has an unfundamental release. That is definately not a textbook release you would teach to young players. He looked like a first time shooter when he shot the ball and it was an atrocious looking shot.


Kobe is easily the most dominant perimeter player in NBA history.

81 points
Only player in NBA history to outscore a team by himself 62-61 ( that team went to NBA finals)
65-50-60-50
45-48-50-45
5 60 point games
50 points in 3 quarter 7 times
NBA record 12 threes
40 ppg average for a month 3 times (Feb 03, Jan 06, April 06)
551 points in 13 games (42 ppg average over 13 games)
225 point in 4 games (55 ppg on 55% FG)

Numbers aside his jumper,footwork, clutchness, killer instinct, creativiy and slashing ability are unmatched.

Outside of Michael Jordan there is no one else that even compares to him remotely.

[BirdOverrated]

- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

Why does no one care that both Magic and Bird were horrible defenders?

Bird and Magic Combined: 1 All-Defensive team.
Kobe: 8 All-Defensive teams

How does in anyone in their right mind put Bird and Magic ahead of DOMINANT player like Shaq and Kobe who have raised the boundaries of the sport and constitued rule changes through their dominance??


Gotta love media's double standards.

Truth hurts I see .:cry:

[Showtime]

There is no question that he has an unfundamental release. That is definately not a textbook release you would teach to young players. He looked like a first time shooter when he shot the ball and it was an atrocious looking shot.

First off, just because he releases the ball above his head doesn't make it a flawed shot. Second, the result > anything you may feel is wrong. You may think Kobe has perfect form, but if that "perfect form" doesn't PERFORM BETTER than Bird's shot, then IT DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is if the ball goes in, and Bird was therefore a better shooter than Kobe, because the ball went in more frequently.


Kobe is easily the most dominant perimeter player in NBA history.

In your own little world. Guess what: if he was that dominating, his domination would result in better performances during his career in the playoffs, especially in today's league where the perimeter player shines. Period.

[gotbacon23]

Gotta love media's double standards.

Truth hurts I see .:cry:

did you really just quote yourself because nobody is willing to engage in your shinannigans??

pathetic.

[Meticode]

So after skimming this thread, the original poster basically made a Kobe vs. Bird/Magic thread? Or am I wrong?

[S13M]

There is no question that he has an unfundamental release. That is definately not a textbook release you would teach to young players. He looked like a first time shooter when he shot the ball and it was an atrocious looking shot.


Yet he still shot higher % than Kobe.

[The Magic Man]

People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Magic Johson:

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards
-0 All Defensive teams
-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot
-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?


Shaq, Kobe, Lebron>>>>>>Magic and Bird in Rankings. Easily.



Wrong! First of all, Magic didn't lose 4 Finals with Kareem/ Worthy. Worthy was injured for 2, Kareem was retired for 1, and Magic got injured in 1 and did not play but 1 game. Also, if you look at Magic's averages in the Finals HE led the teams. Hell, he took over for Cap in the Finals as a rook and won MVP. Try again. And as far as your last statement....:wtf:

[iamgine]

So after skimming this thread, the original poster basically made a Kobe vs. Bird/Magic thread? Or am I wrong?
You are wrong. The OP made a 'I'm a troll, please feed me' thread.

[Showtime]

So after skimming this thread, the original poster basically made a Kobe vs. Bird/Magic thread? Or am I wrong?
It's not a Kobe vs anybody. It's a "Magic/Bird ARE overrated, no discussion, Kobe is CLEARLY better". There's no argument, because Alborz doesn't use logic.

[beasted86]

I'd bet $100 this guy was born in the 90s and never got to watch these guys play. That's the only way you come up with such garbage.

Don't go back and watch highlight reels... go back and watch all 82 games of the season and their playoffs, and tell me they are not top 5-10 players all time.

[BankShot]

How is the most dominant wing ever, at his PRIME, going to average less than 26 points, on 40% shooting, while losing the NBA F'N FINALS 4-2??

Embarassing. You and him. :no:

[Meticode]

You are wrong. The OP made a 'I'm a troll, please feed me' thread.

Ahhh okay. It's just as bad, or maybe even worse. :D

[c_az_a]

Kobe 8 all defensive teams were more on popularity than result on the court. You could say the same thing about Kobe being the best player in the NBA when you don't consider the NBA final appearances he has been involved (since he never was the best player in the finals).


People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability
-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot
-Slow, weak player
-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)

-3 MVPs in a row (Yet would he even be a top 5 player in today's NBA)
Shaquille O'neal (Most dominant Center ever): 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever) : 1 MVP
Lebron James (Best SF all time): 0 MVP


Magic Johnson:

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards
-0 All Defensive teams
-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot
-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

Why do people overlook their shortcomings and their weaknessess. Is it the whole "rivalry" thing and all the footage shown of them on ESPN, NBATV? Why do people overrate them?

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

Why does no one care that both Magic and Bird were horrible defenders?

Bird and Magic Combined: 1 All-Defensive team.
Kobe: 8 All-Defensive teams

How does in anyone in their right mind put Bird and Magic ahead of DOMINANT player like Shaq and Kobe who have raised the boundaries of the sport and constitued rule changes through their dominance??

Offensively players like Kobe and Shaq are just way more dominant and way better than those guys too. Heck even Lebron is better than both oft hem.

Shaq, Kobe, Lebron>>>>>>Magic and Bird in Rankings. Easily.

[BirdOverrated]

How is the most dominant wing ever, at his PRIME, going to average less than 26 points, on 40% shooting, while losing the NBA F'N FINALS 4-2??

Embarassing. You and him. :no:


Fullhouse> pair. (2004 and 2008.)

[BankShot]

Fullhouse> pair. (2004 and 2008.)

What the hell are you talking about??

MJ's 6 rings, to Kobe's 3 (or zero rings as the star of the team)??

I know we're not supposed to encourage behavior like this, but christ would someone just IP ban this joker already?

[Tainted Sword]

The guy also said Lebron > Bird and Magic, I guess no one seems to have a problem with that one since they aren't *****ing about it.

[BirdOverrated]

What the hell are you talking about?? MJ's 6 rings, to Kobe's 3 (or zero rings as the star of the team)

Im talking about

2008 Celtics:

4 All-stars
3 HOFers
1 DPOY
Great defense

2008 Lakers:

1 all-star
1 HOF
0 DPOY
Terrible defense.

[The Magic Man]

The guy also said Lebron > Bird and Magic, I guess no one seems to have a problem with that one since they aren't *****ing about it.

That's what I said on the first page. I don't get it either.

[Showtime]

Fullhouse> pair. (2004 and 2008.)
Once again: the most dominating perimeter presence in the history of the league doesn't perform that poorly in the playoffs, nor does he QUIT. The most dominating player doesn't lose a 7 game series when up 3-1, nor does he disappear in 4th quarter playoff games.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-12/44230530.jpg

The best performs their best against the best. Kobe hasn't dominated more than several other players in the playoffs, where greatness is defined, so he can't be the most dominating perimeter player.

Bye now.

[Da_Realist]

No need to respond to most of the trash KPAH says but he mentioned Larry's bad shooting form. I thought I'd post something which may explain it.

From here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1998/bird/flashbacks/1981flash.html)...


Can Bird feel when a shot is going to go in? And when it's not? "I used to in college, not anymore," he says. "For one thing, I don't like the basketball they use in the NBA [the seams on the pro ball are wider than those on the college ball]. In college, I never had to worry about anybody blocking my shot. I could take my time. The defense is so much better in the pros. I always have somebody like Bobby Jones to worry about. You can never fake them out. You just have to make your move and shoot it quick. In college I followed my shot a lot. In the pros you can't afford to. If you follow your shot, you get burned at the other end. And there's one other thing ..."

Bird laughs a little bit and holds up his right index finger. "This," he says. The finger is shaped much like a boomerang, permanently bent toward his thumb at a 45-degree angle. Two operations have failed to straighten it; he can bend it only halfway to his palm. "I didn't have this in college," he says. He broke it playing softball the summer before his rookie year, trying to catch a wicked line drive off the bat of his brother Mike. "Mike hit a shot that knuckled like nothing I ever seen and that sucker hit my finger and I dropped it. So I picked it up and threw to second base, only the ball tailed up and away and clear over the second baseman, and Mike went all the way over to third base laughing like anything. I had to laugh, too, because I didn't know why the ball did that until I looked down at my hand and saw my finger broken at about a 90-degree angle."

How great a baseball player would Mickey Mantle have been if he hadn't torn up his knee early in his career? One wonders what kind of shooter Bird would be now if he had a straight finger.

[The Magic Man]

Once again: the most dominating perimeter presence in the history of the league doesn't perform that poorly, nor does he QUIT.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-12/44230530.jpg

Bye now.

Yea, I gotta say..I love Kobe and all but there has been 2 times that I wanted to shoot him in the head. 08 in Boston and 06 in Phoenix

[BankShot]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-12/44230530.jpg


The most dominant ever would NEVER let this happen in his prime, especially not with an all-star big man, and well-defined role-players.

[loot]

Repeat after me: "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"...

[Tainted Sword]

That's what I said on the first page. I don't get it either.
They

[YoungRich]

Repeat after me: "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"...
this is not a lakers fan

[Da_Realist]

[QUOTE=Tainted Sword]They

[Showtime]

Repeat after me: "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"... "This is not a Lakers fan"...
He's not a Laker fan. He's a Kobe fan. Big difference.

[Tainted Sword]

People are complaining about Kobe because KPAH is a known Kobe groupie who has repeatedly tried to diminish great players to make Kobe look good. Everyone knows his game and they are attacking him where it hurts. Talking about Lebron does nothing to this dude.

And everyone knows neither Kobe or Lebron is on that level.
The proof is in the pudding. Has anyone stepped up to address this troll saying Bron is better than Bird and Magic? No, they’re too busy jerking off to Kobe’s finals stats. :oldlol:

[Abraham Lincoln]

[QUOTE=Tainted Sword]The proof is in the pudding. Has anyone stepped up to address this troll saying Bron is better than Bird and Magic? No, they

[Tainted Sword]

Well you must the same young lad who insulted Abraham Lincoln in the OTC a few weeks prior. The common idiocity shared between the original poster and his type is stunning. In the wise words of the great Abraham Lincoln, "Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong." Please understand that a house divided against itself cannot stand.
Funny gimmick, but Abe Lincoln sucks.

[highwhey]

LeBron is the GOAT SF? Really? With 0 titles? Really?

Dwight Howard is GOAT Center, CP3 is GOAT PG.

[west]

EPIC FAIL
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/epicfail.gif
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/jump-fail-1.gif
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/motivator4237759fo7-1.jpg

[BirdOverrated]

LeBron is the GOAT SF? Really? With 0 titles? Really?

Dwight Howard is GOAT Center, CP3 is GOAT PG.

Titles don't matter when evaluating skill set.

[gotbacon23]

Titles don't matter when evaluating skill set.


but apparently you think jerry west's record in the finals does when evaluating him... hmmmm, i smell inconsistency.

[YoungRich]

Titles don't matter when evaluating skill set.
wat

[Sir Charles]

[QUOTE=BirdOverrated]People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability

*You Forget to Mention he Was One of the Best Team Defenders of All Time*. He Wasn`t Horrible 1 on1 Either, He Had Some Troubles Against Faster more Agil Forwards ala Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Charles Barkley etc....but then again so did All These When Guarding Him (actually most times these others had more troubles with him than they on him!) :confusedshrug:. Then again his Anticipation for Steals and to Read the Opponents Plays locating himself in the Most Unconfortable Positions that would force the other Teams Turnovers is Unmatched in NBA History and only comparable to Bill Russell. His Interior Defense against big slow PFs that where over 6`9 (except for a couple out there like Tom Chambers who was 6`11 but played like a 6`7 SF) like Kevin Willi, Buck Williams, Rick Mahorn etc was way above Average :confusedshrug:

-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot

Wrong...Its Called "Having So Much Natural Talent to Shoot That You Don`t Need to Follow the Book Rule or Jump". He was the Best Far Angle Shooter of All Time, Clutchest Long Distance Shooter and a Backboard Specialist Too ( Hitting 3-Point Shots or 20 Footers Off the Backboard like they where nothing)

-Slow, weak player

Wrong, the Correct Interpretation is: "Not Potent" :banghead: but Yes Quick. Bird had a Great Quick Step and ofcourse he was Slow compared to the many 6`5, 6`6, 6`7 and 6`8 SFs but for a 6`9 1/2 he was Enoughly Quick Footed and had a Great 1st Step. Not to Mention Bird`s 1 on 1 Skills Facing His Opponent had SG-like Capacity!

Then again Bird was Very Strong. He Was Thick Boned and Capable of Boxing Out and Getting Position Over Players like Buck Williams, Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Horace Grant etc etc reason why he averaged 10 RPG for his Career!. Get Real Idiot! He might not Look Strong or Musculed Toned but he Was Quite Strong and Condition His Whole Body from Head to Toes for Rebounds. Yes he could not Jump High but could Patrick Ewing Jump High? Does Paul Gasol Jump High? Did Kevin McHale Jump High? Is Duncan Blessed With Much Athleticism?

Get Real Kid :banghead:

-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)

3 Rings in The NBA`s Most Competitive Era Ever Regarding Top Teams, Mid Teams and Low Teams. Yes the 1980`s Celtics where one of the Best Teams Ever: 81 Champions, 84 Champions, 85 Co-Champions, 86 Champions, 87 Co Champions

The 1986 Celtics was so Good They Beat the 86 Lakers in All Their Meetings that season and even one in L.A without Kevin McHale :violin:

-3 MVPs in a row (Yet would he even be a top 5 player in today's NBA)
Shaquille O'neal (Most dominant Center ever): 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever) : 1 MVP
Lebron James (Best SF all time): 0 MVP

What Bird had was what Hakeem had over Shaq = MAKING OTHERS BETTER...

Correction

Shaq= Most Dominant Offensive Center Ever but not even close to the Best Defensive Centers, Rebounding Centers, Creating Centers, Assiting Centers...etc

Kobe Bryant = A LESS: Athletic, Agressive and Potent Version of MJ...Yes in the Top 10 SGs of All Time BUT THEIRE HAVE BEEN MANY DOMINANT PERIMETERS PLAYER AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HIM

Lebron James = GREAT BALL HANDLING, PASSING AND DRIVING GAME FOR A SF...BUT NO POST GAME AND NO MID RANGE SHOT. TAKES TOO MANY FGA`S PG.[/B]


Magic Johnson

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards

*But NO PG COULD GUARD HIM and HIS 6`8 frame MADE IT HARD FOR "MOST" QUICK GUARDS TO GO PASSED HIM EASILY. He Tired Most PGs Off by Just Running the Floor Creating His Laker Show Time Offense. For Every 1 Step Magic Took the Other Point Guard had to Take 2-3 Stepts per Game :confusedshrug:

-0 All Defensive teams

Already Mentioned Up There!

-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot

Wrong, He Initially Did Not have a Jump Shot but by his 4th year he was a decent mid range shooter and by 1987 a dangerous one. Also he could just post up on PGs, SGs and some SFs and Take Fadeaways and Hooks to Finish The Game at the Last Seconds. Actually, he could just go by them do this 6`8 frame, natural talent and his MAGICAL ball handling skills for a man his size


-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

But he faced "REAL TEAMS" :rolleyes: (DEEP AND STACKED WITH GREAT ROLE PLAYERS AND MORE THAN 2 ALL STARS)

A Team composed of: Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks, Julius Eving, Moses Malone, Bobby Jones and even a young Charles Barkley

A Team composed of: Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell, Bill Walton, Danny Ainge etc...even Tiny Archibald etc of bangers like Kite

A Team Composed of: Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Mark Aguire, Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Dennis Rodman and Adrian Dantley!

A Team Composed of: Magic, Kareem, McADoo, Wilks, Cooper, Scott, Thampson, AC.Green etc


Why do people overlook their shortcomings and their weaknessess. Is it the whole "rivalry" thing and all the footage shown of them on ESPN, NBATV? Why do people overrate them?

All Players have Weaknesses EVEN THE GREATS but GREAT PLAYERS are FAMOUS for THEIR STRENGTHS which USUALLY ARE WAY ABOVE THEIR WEAKNESSES AND OTHER PLAYERS...and LARRY AND MAGIC HAD MANY STRENGTHS THAT WHERE WAY ABOVE OTHERS:

BIRD:

-B-BALL IQ, COURT VISION, TEAM DEFENSE AND ANTICIPATION = BEST OF ALL TIME!

-ANGLE SHOOTING, FAR SHOOTING, BACKBOARD SHOOTING AND CLUTCH SHOOTING = BEST OF ALL TIME!

-BEST PASSING FORWARD OF ALL TIME!

-IN 29 YEARS WHICH HAS BEEN THE LAST SF THAT AVERAGED 10 RPG FOR HIS CAREER?

-HIS DETERMINATION TO WIN ONLY HAS PARALLEL TO THAT OF MICHAEL JORDAN

*TOP 6 EFF PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 17 SEASON PER PLAYER ALL TIME
*TOP 24 PLAY-OFF PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME

MAGIC:

-NO OTHER PG HAS RUN THE FAST BREAK AS EFFECTIVE, FAST AND DANGEROUS THAN MAGIC

-NO OTHER PLAYER HAS HAD MORE BALL POSSESIONS AND BEEN AS EFFECTIVE WITH IT THAN MAGIC. TOP OFFENSIVE RATING ALSO ETC

-OVER 7 RPG AT THE PG POSITION (before coming back in 96....7.3 RPG)

-52% FG (YOU SAY NO JUMPSHOT!) AND NEAR TO 20 PPG (before coming back in 96...19.7 PPG)

* 11.4 APG

-NO OTHER PG HAS HIT MORE LAST SECOND SHOTS THAN MAGIC

-A PLAYER IN YOUR TEAM CAPABLE OF PLAYING PG, SF, PF AND SOMETIMES C? NAME 1 TODAY?

*TOP 9 EFF PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 11 SEASON PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 16 PLAY-OFF PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

[B]Difference:

Bird 3-5 = BUT WITH HIM AS THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM FOR ALL HIS CHAMPIONSHIPS AND CO CHAMPIONSHIPS

Magic 5-9 = BUT WITH HIM AS THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM FROM 1983-84 "ONWARDS" (PER + EFF) AND I AM NOT INCLUDING THE FACT THAT IN 1980 AS A ROOKIE HE PLAYED C-PF-SF AND PG AND WAS FINALS MVP WITHOUT KAREEM (KAREEM = THE BEST PLAYER FOR THE LAKERS UP UNTILL 1982-83 NOT BEYOND)

Bryant 3-4 = [U]ALL 3 RINGS WON WITH HIM AS SECOND BEST PLAYER OF HIS TEAM (McHALE,

[west]

^^^holy sh!t:lol :applause:

[Cyclone112]

great post sir charles, im glad you stopped making countless barkley threads because you honestly started out being somewhat like kb42pah and bruceblitz but you have turned into generally just posting this stuff when idiots like them make retarded threads.

[BirdOverrated]

LOL at sir charles...coming from a guy who thinks Barkley is best PF all time.

What a joke.

You know your desperate when you post BS stats like PER, EFF, and defensive win shares. :roll:

LOL at sir chalres thinking BPG and SPG equates to good defense.

SPG = shows who is biggest gambler in league.
BPG = shows who leaves their man to do emphatic blocks that give posesion back to other tea

battier, artest, bowen, prince kobe = none of them have high BPG or SPG

you probalbly think camby and chris paul are best defenders in the nba
LOL!

[Showtime]

LOL at sir charles...coming from a guy who thinks Barkley is best PF all time.

What a joke.

You know your desperate when you post BS stats like defensive win shares. :roll:
^ classic Borz. When faced with some legitimate points that he has no answer to, he either ignores them entirely, or deflects to another subject without addressing them.

Borz doesn't use logic, therefore you cannot use reason to make arguments. So, with that in mind:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-12/44230530.jpg

[d-_-b]

^ classic Borz. When faced with some legitimate points that he has no answer to, he either ignores them entirely, or deflects to another subject without addressing them.

Borz doesn't use logic, therefore you cannot use reason to make arguments. So, with that in mind:

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-12/44230530.jpg
:applause: :cheers:
Just posted one second after, but deleted it after say yours.

[AllenIverson3]

People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability
-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot
-Slow, weak player
-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)

-3 MVPs in a row (Yet would he even be a top 5 player in today's NBA)
Shaquille O'neal (Most dominant Center ever): 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever) : 1 MVP
Lebron James (Best SF all time): 0 MVP


Magic Johnson:

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards
-0 All Defensive teams
-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot
-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

Why do people overlook their shortcomings and their weaknessess. Is it the whole "rivalry" thing and all the footage shown of them on ESPN, NBATV? Why do people overrate them?

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

Why does no one care that both Magic and Bird were horrible defenders?

Bird and Magic Combined: 1 All-Defensive team.
Kobe: 8 All-Defensive teams

How does in anyone in their right mind put Bird and Magic ahead of DOMINANT player like Shaq and Kobe who have raised the boundaries of the sport and constitued rule changes through their dominance??

Offensively players like Kobe and Shaq are just way more dominant and way better than those guys too. Heck even Lebron is better than both oft hem.

Shaq, Kobe, Lebron>>>>>>Magic and Bird in Rankings. Easily.

Magic 3 Finals MVP's
Bryant 0
thats why...

[AllenIverson3]

Im talking about

2008 Celtics:

4 All-stars
3 HOFers
1 DPOY
Great defense

2008 Lakers:

1 all-star
1 HOF
0 DPOY
Terrible defense.

Here come the excuses...BTW is KB42PAH one of ur family members?? :oldlol:

[oh the horror]

why do people post anything in these threads to feed into this BS?


You KNOW its BS, so why argue?

[Da_Realist]

...

Great post! :applause:

[Sir Charles]

LOL at sir charles...coming from a guy who thinks Barkley is best PF all time.

What a joke.

You know your desperate when you post BS stats like PER, EFF, and defensive win shares. :roll:

LOL at sir chalres thinking BPG and SPG equates to good defense.

SPG = shows who is biggest gambler in league.
BPG = shows who leaves their man to do emphatic blocks that give posesion back to other tea

battier, artest, bowen, prince kobe = none of them have high BPG or SPG

you probalbly think camby and chris paul are best defenders in the nba
LOL!

Strangely enough Jordan`s SGP Avg in 15 years (giving advantages of retirment to all) was 2.4 > Kobe`s 1.4 .

Strangely enough Jordan`s BPG Avg in 15 years (giving advantages of retirment to all) was 0.8 > Kobe`s 0.6

Strangely enough Jordan`s Career Defensive Win Shares is Top 15 All Time and Kobe is Top 72 All Time

Strangely enough Jordan`s Career Defensive Rating is Top 132 All Time and Kobe is Top 245 All Time

Will not go into the Play-Off stats (too much punshiment) but Isn`t Strange...Strange...Strange....that all this is a coincidence right? :confusedshrug:

Yeah SPGs and BPG don`t mean shi****t...they all depend on the rest of your team`s capacity to force bad passes, bad dribbles and bad selected shots so you can easily Steal and Block :oldlol:

:hammertime:

[andgar923]

I think Kpah is full of hate towards any player not named Kobe, because he wishes he was Vanessa's lips.

[SsKSpurs21]

did you really just quote yourself because nobody is willing to engage in your shinannigans??

pathetic.


"evil shinannigans!" - Mac from Supertroopers! :roll: :rockon:

[Stringer Bell]

Too many posters here would eat out Kate Faber just to see what Kobe's dikk tastes like.

[godofgods]

They are not overrated. A hobbled Bird and an AIDS infested Magic is still better than prime Kobe.

FACT.

And let's not even bring that overgrown baboon Shaq. If everything is called fairly, he'd foul out in every single game before the 2nd quarter.

Kobe/Shaq duo only wins championship because it's rigged and Stern loves them. Period. FACT.

/thread

[Celts34]

Yea between the two of them there are only 6 MVP's, 8 Championships, well over 22+ AS appearances, 2 gold medals, and like a zillion All-NBA awards. Not to mention both in their prime put up statistical seasons, that have either not been matched or surpassed very often in the almost decade+ since each retired. Yea they were completely overrated.

[Meticode]

why do people post anything in these threads to feed into this BS?


You KNOW its BS, so why argue?

Nothing better to do.

[Ken_Masters]

Where's my troll food...I can't feed the troll without my troll food! Gosh-darn it!

Troll food :roll:

[godofgods]

Yet Kobe has not earned his Defensive Awards other than the fact that he is an OVER MARKETED TOOL, Stern`s NEW JORDAN WANABEE PUPPET

WHAT THAT MEANS IS VERY SIMPLE:

BIRD, MAGIC AND SHAQ...are IN ANOTHER LEVEL than Baby Wanabee Jordan KOBY :violin:

END!


This is by far the greatest post by Sir Charles, ever. New Jordan Wannabe Puppet. NJWP. That is Kobe's new name. Who needs Mamba when you have NJWP. Much respect to you Sir Charles! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[AJ2k8]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-12/44230530.jpg
I love the lakers and kobe but i find that pic really amusing when shown in reply to a kobe homer like bird:lol

[momo]

Why do people overrate Larry Bird and Magic Johnson?

It is a conspiracy designed to piss off idiots.

[iggy>]

a statline of 24, 10, and 6 for his career...not to mention 3 rings and 3 mvps. whos overrated again?

[Toizumi]

People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability
-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot
-Slow, weak player
-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)



While he wasn't a great on ball defender, he was a smart defender who knew how to play help defense. He wasn't a liability.
Who cares if his jumpshot didn't look good (to you) it was very effective and Larry is one of the greatest shooters ever.. Larry wasn't the quickest, but it's not like he was slow or anything, he was great at orchestrating a fastbreak. In what way was he weak? He might have had trouble guarding bigger/stronger players but he was a great rebounder and didn't shy away from physical contact. Have you actually ever seen him play ?? And how can you knock him for "only" winning 3 rings.. :confusedshrug: even winning it once is a great achievement in a league with 25 teams fighting for one goal(don't know how many teams there were at that time)

[Toizumi]

Magic Johnson:

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards
-0 All Defensive teams
-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot
-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?


Not great defensively and he had the luck that he had great postdefenders making up for his lack of speed on defense. True that. Not a great shooter and he lacked range. BUT.. he shot over 50% for his career and scored almost 20 ppg. That impressive for a point guard (even at 6-10). He could score at will and had unbelievable court vision to boost. He did lose in the finals 4 times..so? Kobe taking the lakers to the finals in last year's playoffs was great. Magic taking his team to the finals was too. Magic helped to get his team there 9 times and win 5. Salute. Yes he played with Kareem but I think both were equals and formed a great duo. Shaq was the better player when the lakers won the 3 rings. Kobe was unbelievable, even then, and the lakers wouldn't have won it without him. Much like Pippen (my favorite of all time) with MJ. They might hold this against him. Anyway, I understand your arguments, but Magic is in no way overrated, believe the hype.

[Sir Charles]

[QUOTE=BirdOverrated]People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability

*You Forget to Mention he Was One of the Best Team Defenders of All Time*. He Wasn`t Horrible 1 on1 Either, He Had Some Troubles Against Faster more Agil Forwards ala Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Charles Barkley etc....but then again so did All These When Guarding Him (actually most times these others had more troubles with him than they on him!) :confusedshrug:. Then again his Anticipation for Steals and to Read the Opponents Plays locating himself in the Most Unconfortable Positions that would force the other Teams Turnovers is Unmatched in NBA History and only comparable to Bill Russell. His Interior Defense against big slow PFs that where over 6`9 (except for a couple out there like Tom Chambers who was 6`11 but played like a 6`7 SF) like Kevin Willi, Buck Williams, Rick Mahorn etc was way above Average :confusedshrug:

-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot

Wrong...Its Called "Having So Much Natural Talent to Shoot That You Don`t Need to Follow the Book Rule or Jump". He was the Best Far Angle Shooter of All Time, Clutchest Long Distance Shooter and a Backboard Specialist Too ( Hitting 3-Point Shots or 20 Footers Off the Backboard like they where nothing)

-Slow, weak player

Wrong, the Correct Interpretation is: "Not Potent" :banghead: but Yes Quick. Bird had a Great Quick Step and ofcourse he was Slow compared to the many 6`5, 6`6, 6`7 and 6`8 SFs but for a 6`9 1/2 he was Enoughly Quick Footed and had a Great 1st Step. Not to Mention Bird`s 1 on 1 Skills Facing His Opponent had SG-like Capacity!

Then again Bird was Very Strong. He Was Thick Boned and Capable of Boxing Out and Getting Position Over Players like Buck Williams, Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Horace Grant etc etc reason why he averaged 10 RPG for his Career!. Get Real Idiot! He might not Look Strong or Musculed Toned but he Was Quite Strong and Condition His Whole Body from Head to Toes for Rebounds. Yes he could not Jump High but could Patrick Ewing Jump High? Does Paul Gasol Jump High? Did Kevin McHale Jump High? Is Duncan Blessed With Much Athleticism?

Get Real Kid :banghead:

-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)

3 Rings in The NBA`s Most Competitive Era Ever Regarding Top Teams, Mid Teams and Low Teams. Yes the 1980`s Celtics where one of the Best Teams Ever: 81 Champions, 84 Champions, 85 Co-Champions, 86 Champions, 87 Co Champions

The 1986 Celtics was so Good They Beat the 86 Lakers in All Their Meetings that season and even one in L.A without Kevin McHale :violin:

-3 MVPs in a row (Yet would he even be a top 5 player in today's NBA)
Shaquille O'neal (Most dominant Center ever): 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever) : 1 MVP
Lebron James (Best SF all time): 0 MVP

What Bird had was what Hakeem had over Shaq = MAKING OTHERS BETTER...

Correction

Shaq= Most Dominant Offensive Center Ever but not even close to the Best Defensive Centers, Rebounding Centers, Creating Centers, Assiting Centers...etc

Kobe Bryant = A LESS: Athletic, Agressive and Potent Version of MJ...Yes in the Top 10 SGs of All Time BUT THEIRE HAVE BEEN MANY DOMINANT PERIMETERS PLAYER AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HIM

Lebron James = GREAT BALL HANDLING, PASSING AND DRIVING GAME FOR A SF...BUT NO POST GAME AND NO MID RANGE SHOT. TAKES TOO MANY FGA`S PG.[/B]


Magic Johnson

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards

*But NO PG COULD GUARD HIM and HIS 6`8 frame MADE IT HARD FOR "MOST" QUICK GUARDS TO GO PASSED HIM EASILY. He Tired Most PGs Off by Just Running the Floor Creating His Laker Show Time Offense. For Every 1 Step Magic Took the Other Point Guard had to Take 2-3 Stepts per Game :confusedshrug:

-0 All Defensive teams

Already Mentioned Up There!

-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot

Wrong, He Initially Did Not have a Jump Shot but by his 4th year he was a decent mid range shooter and by 1987 a dangerous one. Also he could just post up on PGs, SGs and some SFs and Take Fadeaways and Hooks to Finish The Game at the Last Seconds. Actually, he could just go by them do this 6`8 frame, natural talent and his MAGICAL ball handling skills for a man his size


-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

But he faced "REAL TEAMS" :rolleyes: (DEEP AND STACKED WITH GREAT ROLE PLAYERS AND MORE THAN 2 ALL STARS)

A Team composed of: Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks, Julius Eving, Moses Malone, Bobby Jones and even a young Charles Barkley

A Team composed of: Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell, Bill Walton, Danny Ainge etc...even Tiny Archibald etc of bangers like Kite

A Team Composed of: Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Mark Aguire, Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Dennis Rodman and Adrian Dantley!

A Team Composed of: Magic, Kareem, McADoo, Wilks, Cooper, Scott, Thampson, AC.Green etc


Why do people overlook their shortcomings and their weaknessess. Is it the whole "rivalry" thing and all the footage shown of them on ESPN, NBATV? Why do people overrate them?

All Players have Weaknesses EVEN THE GREATS but GREAT PLAYERS are FAMOUS for THEIR STRENGTHS which USUALLY ARE WAY ABOVE THEIR WEAKNESSES AND OTHER PLAYERS...and LARRY AND MAGIC HAD MANY STRENGTHS THAT WHERE WAY ABOVE OTHERS:

BIRD:

-B-BALL IQ, COURT VISION, TEAM DEFENSE AND ANTICIPATION = BEST OF ALL TIME!

-ANGLE SHOOTING, FAR SHOOTING, BACKBOARD SHOOTING AND CLUTCH SHOOTING = BEST OF ALL TIME!

-BEST PASSING FORWARD OF ALL TIME!

-IN 29 YEARS WHICH HAS BEEN THE LAST SF THAT AVERAGED 10 RPG FOR HIS CAREER?

-HIS DETERMINATION TO WIN ONLY HAS PARALLEL TO THAT OF MICHAEL JORDAN

*TOP 6 EFF PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 17 SEASON PER PLAYER ALL TIME
*TOP 24 PLAY-OFF PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME

MAGIC:

-NO OTHER PG HAS RUN THE FAST BREAK AS EFFECTIVE, FAST AND DANGEROUS THAN MAGIC

-NO OTHER PLAYER HAS HAD MORE BALL POSSESIONS AND BEEN AS EFFECTIVE WITH IT THAN MAGIC. TOP OFFENSIVE RATING ALSO ETC

-OVER 7 RPG AT THE PG POSITION (before coming back in 96....7.3 RPG)

-52% FG (YOU SAY NO JUMPSHOT!) AND NEAR TO 20 PPG (before coming back in 96...19.7 PPG)

* 11.4 APG

-NO OTHER PG HAS HIT MORE LAST SECOND SHOTS THAN MAGIC

-A PLAYER IN YOUR TEAM CAPABLE OF PLAYING PG, SF, PF AND SOMETIMES C? NAME 1 TODAY?

*TOP 9 EFF PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 11 SEASON PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 16 PLAY-OFF PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

[B]Difference:

Bird 3-5 = BUT WITH HIM AS THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM FOR ALL HIS CHAMPIONSHIPS AND CO CHAMPIONSHIPS

Magic 5-9 = BUT WITH HIM AS THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM FROM 1983-84 "ONWARDS" (PER + EFF) AND I AM NOT INCLUDING THE FACT THAT IN 1980 AS A ROOKIE HE PLAYED C-PF-SF AND PG AND WAS FINALS MVP WITHOUT KAREEM (KAREEM = THE BEST PLAYER FOR THE LAKERS UP UNTILL 1982-83 NOT BEYOND)

Bryant 3-4 = [U]ALL 3 RINGS WON WITH HIM AS SECOND BEST PLAYER OF HIS TEAM (McHALE,

[Toizumi]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles][QUOTE=BirdOverrated]People talk about these guys being top 5 players all time, to me thats overrating them ( especially Bird).

Larry Bird:

He was an undderrated passer, but he is highly overrated in other areas.

-Horrible defender, defensive Liability

*You Forget to Mention he Was One of the Best Team Defenders of All Time*. He Wasn`t Horrible 1 on1 Either, He Had Some Troubles Against Faster more Agil Forwards ala Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Charles Barkley etc....but then again so did All These When Guarding Him (actually most times these others had more troubles with him than they on him!) :confusedshrug:. Then again his Anticipation for Steals and to Read the Opponents Plays locating himself in the Most Unconfortable Positions that would force the other Teams Turnovers is Unmatched in NBA History and only comparable to Bill Russell. His Interior Defense against big slow PFs that where over 6`9 (except for a couple out there like Tom Chambers who was 6`11 but played like a 6`7 SF) like Kevin Willi, Buck Williams, Rick Mahorn etc was way above Average :confusedshrug:

-Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot

Wrong...Its Called "Having So Much Natural Talent to Shoot That You Don`t Need to Follow the Book Rule or Jump". He was the Best Far Angle Shooter of All Time, Clutchest Long Distance Shooter and a Backboard Specialist Too ( Hitting 3-Point Shots or 20 Footers Off the Backboard like they where nothing)

-Slow, weak player

Wrong, the Correct Interpretation is: "Not Potent" :banghead: but Yes Quick. Bird had a Great Quick Step and ofcourse he was Slow compared to the many 6`5, 6`6, 6`7 and 6`8 SFs but for a 6`9 1/2 he was Enoughly Quick Footed and had a Great 1st Step. Not to Mention Bird`s 1 on 1 Skills Facing His Opponent had SG-like Capacity!

Then again Bird was Very Strong. He Was Thick Boned and Capable of Boxing Out and Getting Position Over Players like Buck Williams, Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Tom Chambers, James Worthy, Horace Grant etc etc reason why he averaged 10 RPG for his Career!. Get Real Idiot! He might not Look Strong or Musculed Toned but he Was Quite Strong and Condition His Whole Body from Head to Toes for Rebounds. Yes he could not Jump High but could Patrick Ewing Jump High? Does Paul Gasol Jump High? Did Kevin McHale Jump High? Is Duncan Blessed With Much Athleticism?

Get Real Kid :banghead:

-Only managed to win 3 rings (Yet people say 80s celtics were best team ever)

3 Rings in The NBA`s Most Competitive Era Ever Regarding Top Teams, Mid Teams and Low Teams. Yes the 1980`s Celtics where one of the Best Teams Ever: 81 Champions, 84 Champions, 85 Co-Champions, 86 Champions, 87 Co Champions

The 1986 Celtics was so Good They Beat the 86 Lakers in All Their Meetings that season and even one in L.A without Kevin McHale :violin:

-3 MVPs in a row (Yet would he even be a top 5 player in today's NBA)
Shaquille O'neal (Most dominant Center ever): 1 MVP
Kobe Bryant (Most dominant perimeter player ever) : 1 MVP
Lebron James (Best SF all time): 0 MVP

What Bird had was what Hakeem had over Shaq = MAKING OTHERS BETTER...

Correction

Shaq= Most Dominant Offensive Center Ever but not even close to the Best Defensive Centers, Rebounding Centers, Creating Centers, Assiting Centers...etc

Kobe Bryant = A LESS: Athletic, Agressive and Potent Version of MJ...Yes in the Top 10 SGs of All Time BUT THEIRE HAVE BEEN MANY DOMINANT PERIMETERS PLAYER AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN HIM

Lebron James = GREAT BALL HANDLING, PASSING AND DRIVING GAME FOR A SF...BUT NO POST GAME AND NO MID RANGE SHOT. TAKES TOO MANY FGA`S PG.[/B]


Magic Johnson

Magic is the best passer and arguably the best point guard ever. - he had some of the best court vision. But overall, he is mad overrated.

-Terrible defensively, could not guard quick point guards

*But NO PG COULD GUARD HIM and HIS 6`8 frame MADE IT HARD FOR "MOST" QUICK GUARDS TO GO PASSED HIM EASILY. He Tired Most PGs Off by Just Running the Floor Creating His Laker Show Time Offense. For Every 1 Step Magic Took the Other Point Guard had to Take 2-3 Stepts per Game :confusedshrug:

-0 All Defensive teams

Already Mentioned Up There!

-No jumpshot at all, 3 point or midrange shot

Wrong, He Initially Did Not have a Jump Shot but by his 4th year he was a decent mid range shooter and by 1987 a dangerous one. Also he could just post up on PGs, SGs and some SFs and Take Fadeaways and Hooks to Finish The Game at the Last Seconds. Actually, he could just go by them do this 6`8 frame, natural talent and his MAGICAL ball handling skills for a man his size


-Lost in finals 4 times with Kareem/Worthy
- Why is Kobe discredited for winning 3 rings with best Center in the NBA, but Magic is not?

But he faced "REAL TEAMS" :rolleyes: (DEEP AND STACKED WITH GREAT ROLE PLAYERS AND MORE THAN 2 ALL STARS)

A Team composed of: Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks, Julius Eving, Moses Malone, Bobby Jones and even a young Charles Barkley

A Team composed of: Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell, Bill Walton, Danny Ainge etc...even Tiny Archibald etc of bangers like Kite

A Team Composed of: Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Bill Laimbeer, Mark Aguire, Rick Mahorn, John Salley, Dennis Rodman and Adrian Dantley!

A Team Composed of: Magic, Kareem, McADoo, Wilks, Cooper, Scott, Thampson, AC.Green etc


Why do people overlook their shortcomings and their weaknessess. Is it the whole "rivalry" thing and all the footage shown of them on ESPN, NBATV? Why do people overrate them?

All Players have Weaknesses EVEN THE GREATS but GREAT PLAYERS are FAMOUS for THEIR STRENGTHS which USUALLY ARE WAY ABOVE THEIR WEAKNESSES AND OTHER PLAYERS...and LARRY AND MAGIC HAD MANY STRENGTHS THAT WHERE WAY ABOVE OTHERS:

BIRD:

-B-BALL IQ, COURT VISION, TEAM DEFENSE AND ANTICIPATION = BEST OF ALL TIME!

-ANGLE SHOOTING, FAR SHOOTING, BACKBOARD SHOOTING AND CLUTCH SHOOTING = BEST OF ALL TIME!

-BEST PASSING FORWARD OF ALL TIME!

-IN 29 YEARS WHICH HAS BEEN THE LAST SF THAT AVERAGED 10 RPG FOR HIS CAREER?

-HIS DETERMINATION TO WIN ONLY HAS PARALLEL TO THAT OF MICHAEL JORDAN

*TOP 6 EFF PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 17 SEASON PER PLAYER ALL TIME
*TOP 24 PLAY-OFF PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME

MAGIC:

-NO OTHER PG HAS RUN THE FAST BREAK AS EFFECTIVE, FAST AND DANGEROUS THAN MAGIC

-NO OTHER PLAYER HAS HAD MORE BALL POSSESIONS AND BEEN AS EFFECTIVE WITH IT THAN MAGIC. TOP OFFENSIVE RATING ALSO ETC

-OVER 7 RPG AT THE PG POSITION (before coming back in 96....7.3 RPG)

-52% FG (YOU SAY NO JUMPSHOT!) AND NEAR TO 20 PPG (before coming back in 96...19.7 PPG)

* 11.4 APG

-NO OTHER PG HAS HIT MORE LAST SECOND SHOTS THAN MAGIC

-A PLAYER IN YOUR TEAM CAPABLE OF PLAYING PG, SF, PF AND SOMETIMES C? NAME 1 TODAY?

*TOP 9 EFF PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 11 SEASON PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME
*TOP 16 PLAY-OFF PER PLAYER OF ALL TIME

Why is Kobe a choker for losing twice in finals? Yet Magic losing 4 times in Finals and Bird losing 2 times in finals seems to be disregarded?

NBA FINALS

Magic 5-9 , retired
Bird 3-5 , retired
Kobe 3-5 (With best team in NBA and 8 more years left in his career)

[B]Difference:

Bird 3-5 = BUT WITH HIM AS THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM FOR ALL HIS CHAMPIONSHIPS AND CO CHAMPIONSHIPS

Magic 5-9 = BUT WITH HIM AS THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM FROM 1983-84 "ONWARDS" (PER + EFF) AND I AM NOT INCLUDING THE FACT THAT IN 1980 AS A ROOKIE HE PLAYED C-PF-SF AND PG AND WAS FINALS MVP WITHOUT KAREEM (KAREEM = THE BEST PLAYER FOR THE LAKERS UP UNTILL 1982-83 NOT BEYOND)

Bryant 3-4 = [U]ALL 3 RINGS WON WITH HIM AS SECOND BEST PLAYER OF HIS TEAM (McHALE,

[Rolando]

[QUOTE=Sir Charles]

schooled.

And crushed.

[the_wise_one]

Larry Bird is never overrated.
Magic is a bit overrated but give this guy credit, he is one of the greatest PGs of all time, and a MUCH GREATER Laker than Kobe.

[necya]

this birdoverrated reminds me a lot of griffmoney writing style...

people should ignore this kind of thread. unfortunately, the most discussed threads are the weakest.

[Glide2keva]

[QUOTE=Tainted Sword]They

[jstern]

I stopped reading at
Terrible mechanic on his jumpshot ,very unfundamental release, ugly shot Realized that whoever the OP is, he probably has a real low IQ. The type who if I was talking to in real life I would just move along and not even care what his opinion is. But here on the internet, a not so bright person gets the same attention as a credible NBA annalist.

But anyway, Bird is overrated because his jumper seems "unfundamental" to the OP, never mind how great of a shooter Bird was. It's all about style people. An And1 player is better than John Stockton because Stockton wore short shorts people.

Edit: This thread is old.

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird a bad defender?

:facepalm :no: In his Prime

Defensive Rating

1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (7)
1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)
1984-85 NBA 102.8 (8)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_yearly_p.html

NBA & ABA Yearly Playoff Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating


Year Lg Player DRtg Tm
2010 NBA Dwight Howard 92.98 ORL
2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35 ORL
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51 SAS
2007 NBA Tyrus Thomas 92.52 CHI
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13 MIA
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48 DET
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91 DET
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51 DET
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.41 DET
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42 SAS
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01 SAS
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33 SAS
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42 SAS
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64 MIA
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen* 96.07 CHI
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53 SAS
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34 NYK
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56 HOU
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.35 DET
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen* 99.52 CHI
1990 NBA Bill Laimbeer 96.32 DET
1989 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.38 DET
1988 NBA Bill Laimbeer 99.51 DET
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 102.24 HOU
1986 NBA Bill Walton* 100.62 BOS
1985 NBA Ralph Sampson 97.16 HOU
1984 NBA Buck Williams 99.41 NJN
1983 NBA Dan Roundfield 93.00 ATL
1982 NBA Larry Bird* 94.21 BOS
1981 NBA Rich Kelley 91.33 PHO
1980 NBA Larry Bird* 95.93 BOS

[the_wise_one]

Larry Bird a bad defender?

:facepalm :no: In his Prime

Defensive Rating

1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (7)
1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)
1984-85 NBA 102.8 (8)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_yearly_p.html

NBA & ABA Yearly Playoff Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating


Year Lg Player DRtg Tm
2010 NBA Dwight Howard 92.98 ORL
2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35 ORL
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51 SAS
2007 NBA Tyrus Thomas 92.52 CHI
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13 MIA
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48 DET
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91 DET
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51 DET
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.41 DET
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42 SAS
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01 SAS
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33 SAS
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42 SAS
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64 MIA
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen* 96.07 CHI
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53 SAS
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34 NYK
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56 HOU
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.35 DET
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen* 99.52 CHI
1990 NBA Bill Laimbeer 96.32 DET
1989 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.38 DET
1988 NBA Bill Laimbeer 99.51 DET
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 102.24 HOU
1986 NBA Bill Walton* 100.62 BOS
1985 NBA Ralph Sampson 97.16 HOU
1984 NBA Buck Williams 99.41 NJN
1983 NBA Dan Roundfield 93.00 ATL
1982 NBA Larry Bird* 94.21 BOS
1981 NBA Rich Kelley 91.33 PHO
1980 NBA Larry Bird* 95.93 BOS

Larry Bird is a bad defender is one of the biggest myths in the NBA. Dude's decent at it.

[Jacks3]

Larry Bird a bad defender?

:facepalm :no: In his Prime

Defensive Rating

1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (7)
1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)
1984-85 NBA 102.8 (8)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_yearly_p.html

NBA & ABA Yearly Playoff Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating


Year Lg Player DRtg Tm
2010 NBA Dwight Howard 92.98 ORL
2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35 ORL
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51 SAS
2007 NBA Tyrus Thomas 92.52 CHI
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13 MIA
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48 DET
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91 DET
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51 DET
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.41 DET
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42 SAS
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01 SAS
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33 SAS
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42 SAS
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64 MIA
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen* 96.07 CHI
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53 SAS
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34 NYK
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56 HOU
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.35 DET
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen* 99.52 CHI
1990 NBA Bill Laimbeer 96.32 DET
1989 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.38 DET
1988 NBA Bill Laimbeer 99.51 DET
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 102.24 HOU
1986 NBA Bill Walton* 100.62 BOS
1985 NBA Ralph Sampson 97.16 HOU
1984 NBA Buck Williams 99.41 NJN
1983 NBA Dan Roundfield 93.00 ATL
1982 NBA Larry Bird* 94.21 BOS
1981 NBA Rich Kelley 91.33 PHO
1980 NBA Larry Bird* 95.93 BOS

You realize Drtg is like 80% team based right? :facepalm