GOAT Post Moves: Hakeem or McHale?

[1987_Lakers]

Both had unstoppable post moves. McHale in his prime made 60% of his shots and was probably the most unguardable player in the league, his moves made defenders look foolish. And we all know about Hakeem's dream shake. Who had better post moves? McHale or Hakeem?

McHale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlSZC4TAYVc)
Hakeem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmLR_VgbqAA)

[G-train]

I'll say Dream, cos he was a more athletic and better finsher after the move IMO

[iamgine]

http://www.lakersuniverse.com/pictures/kareem_abdul_jabbar_skyhook.jpg

[godofgods]

I'd take Hakeem by a hair. Both are awesome.

[Younggrease]

hakeem because he could see his players during the moves while McHale went into tunnel vision

[kap]

i dont even think that some of you are old enough to have watched n fully understand the plays of hakeem, not to mention mchale. hmmmmmm..... gotta love the internet

[G-train]

http://www.lakersuniverse.com/pictures/kareem_abdul_jabbar_skyhook.jpg

greatest post move

[BigTicket]

Neither one of them, Kareem had the best post moves.

[G-train]

i dont even think that some of you are old enough to have watched n fully understand the plays of hakeem, not to mention mchale. hmmmmmm..... gotta love the internet

maybe we all are, thus the minimal replys :confusedshrug:

I am in my late 20's and have seen both play extensively

[LebronairJAMES]

Really close but i got to give it to hakeem
though mchale could pass the ball better in the post

[Brunch@Five]

The answer is Hakeem, because also mastered one of the most important moves in the post, unlike McHale: the pass :oldlol:
McHale was one of the biggest black holes on offense ever

[DCL]

mchale's movements were somewhat quick, but compared to hakeem, mchale moved in slow and frigid motion. hakeem moved like a ninja or mosquito. spin here, head fake there, spin back, twist left, right, north, south, fake back again and then hit ya for easy two while your feet are trapped in opposite momentum. he'd make your head spin in circles just by looking at you.

mchale was effective, but he never moved that quick. never had that agility in his bones. and he only had like a 10 inch vertical leap on a good day, but that 9 foot frankenstein wingspan compensated everything. the up and under was his bread and butter and his creativity was limited by his lack of athleticism. if shorter guys and short wingspans tried some of his same moves with the same speed as him, that sh!t would be blocked.

nonetheless, mchale was extremely effective, and he fully took advantage of his god-given limbs, but if you're talking about pure post moves and their effectiveness on any scale, hakeem was more advanced than mchale. here's the thing -- hakeem could do everything mchale could do, but the opposite is not true. mchale just never had the athletic goods to dance around like hakeem.

[Manute for Ever!]

I'm going to go against the grain and take McHale for one reason... patience. Instead of flash and flair, McHale used intelligence and patience to beat an opponent. His footwork was second to none and his strength was waiting for the D to make a mistake.

[Mikaiel]

McHale. If you're a post player and you want to study post moves, McHale is definitely the guy you can learn from :bowdown: Although you can't learn his crazy wingspan ...

[JJ81]

Hakeem, the dream

[PoGoMon]

Both had unstoppable post moves. McHale in his prime made 60% of his shots and was probably the most unguardable player in the league, his moves made defenders look foolish. And we all know about Hakeem's dream shake. Who had better post moves? McHale or Hakeem?

McHale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlSZC4TAYVc)
Hakeem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmLR_VgbqAA)

Seeing as how McHale started those moves before Hakeem - one would assume that Hakeem got schooled by McHale in those moves in the '86 finals, wouldn't one? :cheers:

[lefthook00]

The difference IMO was that Hakeem could drive into the post where it seemed like McHale got passes into the post when he was already there, so I guess I'm saying that the difference was handles. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't seen too much of McHale.

P.S. - Look at his arms!!!!! Straight up primate!!!!!

[iggy>]

keem>>>>

[PoGoMon]

The difference IMO was that Hakeem could drive into the post where it seemed like McHale got passes into the post when he was already there, so I guess I'm saying that the difference was handles. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't seen too much of McHale.

P.S. - Look at his arms!!!!! Straight up primate!!!!!

Try watching the video again. McHale could and did drive to the rack - but more importantly - he was in postion almost all of the time and that is the sign of a great post player - not driving to the rack like some guard.

BTW. Great music to accompany the "slippery eel".

McHale was a 6'10" back-up PF/C bench player at first - hence his 6th man awards.

[RapsFan]

I think it's McHale over their careers. Hakeen obviously had the greater peak and during that time, added the great fade away jumper. But if it's just post moves, and post fundamentals, I don't think anyone is as good as McHale was.

Especially since the topic is post 'moves'. Ability to hit jumpers, pass and drive to the hoop are irrelevant in this discussion.

[AllenIverson3]

Tim Duncan

[twolvesfan]

Tim Duncan
GOOD THING HE IS IN THE DISCUSSION

[hayden695]

Give me the Dream

but im biased:lol

[PoGoMon]

Give me the Dream

but im biased:lol

I'm also biased. If we talk about a career as a starting center - I pick Hakeem. If we talk about who had the identical post moves FIRST - I know it was McHale as I watched him during college as well as in the pros. I watched him school Hakeem in the '86 finals.

[JellyBean]

The Dream of course.

[Brunch@Five]

I think it's McHale over their careers. Hakeen obviously had the greater peak and during that time, added the great fade away jumper. But if it's just post moves, and post fundamentals, I don't think anyone is as good as McHale was.

Especially since the topic is post 'moves'. Ability to hit jumpers, pass and drive to the hoop are irrelevant in this discussion.

passing is part of post fundamentals though. Passing is the reason TD and Shaq are/were so dominant and lead their teams to multiple championships. A bigman who is good at establishing and maintaining position in the post and passing out of it makes the game so much easier for your teammates. To me it's the biggest slight of Dwight's game right now, and passing is also the reason Dallas was still this good after Nash left and Dirk was their primary ball handler as a high post player.

[saKf]

McHale probably had better moves. Olajuwon had vastly superior physical gifts that made him the much deadlier player, but McHale probably had better moves.

[t-rex]

McHale by a hair.... but my god it's close!

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Dream.

[Terp in LA]

Olajuwon, without a doubt.

[Sir Charles]

McHale.....:confusedshrug:

Hakeem had superior

-Fadeaway Shot (Especially Back to the Basket in SG Style)
-Foot Speed
-Overall Agility
-Overall Strength

McHale had superior

- Pure Creative Skilled Moves
- Creative Footwork (usually on one foot)
- Shooting Touch
- Wingspan (8ft)

[RapsFan]

passing is part of post fundamentals though. Passing is the reason TD and Shaq are/were so dominant and lead their teams to multiple championships. A bigman who is good at establishing and maintaining position in the post and passing out of it makes the game so much easier for your teammates. To me it's the biggest slight of Dwight's game right now, and passing is also the reason Dallas was still this good after Nash left and Dirk was their primary ball handler as a high post player.

I don't disagree, but in terms of the question on this thread, passing isn't a part of it.

[allball]

I was blessed to see the entire careers of both. I'll call it a tie.

some of my favorite signature post moves:

McHale - Up and Under, mid-range jumpshot, fake and drop
Hakeem - Dream Shake, turn to the middle, up and under
Kareem - Sky Hook, drop step, up and under
Wilt - turnaround bank shot, turnaround finger roll, turn to the middle
Mikan - hook shot with right or left, drop step
Shaq - power drop step, power to the middle, baby bank shot
Dantley - Up and Under, back down and spin
Jordan - turnaround jump shot, spin to the middle
Erving - turnaround bank shot, power spin to the middle
Walton - up and under, drop step, turnaround short jumper
Bird - read and react, turnaround jumpshot
Barkley - low block post read and react, up and under, power drop step
Duncan - drop step, turnaround bank shot
D. Robinson - power drop step, up and under, turnaround jumpshot
Payton - back down / shoot over

[Sir Charles]

I was blessed to see the entire careers of both. I'll call it a tie.

some of my favorite signature post moves:

McHale - Up and Under, mid-range jumpshot, fake and drop
Hakeem - Dream Shake, turn to the middle, up and under
Kareem - Sky Hook, drop step, up and under
Wilt - turnaround bank shot, turnaround finger roll, turn to the middle
Mikan - hook shot with right or left, drop step
Shaq - power drop step, power to the middle, baby bank shot
Dantley - Up and Under, back down and spin
Jordan - turnaround jump shot, spin to the middle
Erving - turnaround bank shot, power spin to the middle
Walton - up and under, drop step, turnaround short jumper
Bird - read and react, turnaround jumpshot
Barkley - low block post read and react, up and under, power drop step
Duncan - drop step, turnaround bank shot
D. Robinson - power drop step, up and under, turnaround jumpshot
Payton - back down / shoot over

:applause:

Don`t forget about Barkley`s famous "Spin Moves" both left and right handed...the precusors to Shaq`s "Black Tornados":bowdown:

[G-train]

I was blessed to see the entire careers of both. I'll call it a tie.

some of my favorite signature post moves:

McHale - Up and Under, mid-range jumpshot, fake and drop
Hakeem - Dream Shake, turn to the middle, up and under
Kareem - Sky Hook, drop step, up and under
Wilt - turnaround bank shot, turnaround finger roll, turn to the middle
Mikan - hook shot with right or left, drop step
Shaq - power drop step, power to the middle, baby bank shot
Dantley - Up and Under, back down and spin
Jordan - turnaround jump shot, spin to the middle
Erving - turnaround bank shot, power spin to the middle
Walton - up and under, drop step, turnaround short jumper
Bird - read and react, turnaround jumpshot
Barkley - low block post read and react, up and under, power drop step
Duncan - drop step, turnaround bank shot
D. Robinson - power drop step, up and under, turnaround jumpshot
Payton - back down / shoot over

I could not love a human baby more than I love the bolded.

[big baller]

Dream Shake

[1987_Lakers]

I'm going to go against the grain and take McHale for one reason... patience. Instead of flash and flair, McHale used intelligence and patience to beat an opponent. His footwork was second to none and his strength was waiting for the D to make a mistake.

:applause:

[Bigsmoke]

McHale.....:confusedshrug:

Hakeem had superior

-Fadeaway Shot (Especially Back to the Basket in SG Style)
-Foot Speed
-Overall Agility
-Overall Strength

McHale had superior

- Pure Creative Skilled Moves
- Creative Footwork (usually on one foot)
- Shooting Touch
- Wingspan (8ft)

even back then u say some really retarded shit Charles

what does a players wingspan has to do with "post moves"

[I LUV KOBE]

Hakeem easily.. Arguably has the best footwork for a big baller...

[Collie]

McHale was more "skilled", but he did not have Hakeem's extraordinary strength or quickness.

[fjjkk102]

Skyhook is GOAT unguardable move, but Kareem is not at their level.
Both McHale and Hakeem are great.
McHale has more moves, but Hakeem is much faster IMO
I'll take Hakeem.

BTW, Duncan should join them.

[Horatio33]

hakeem because he could see his players during the moves while McHale went into tunnel vision

Fallacy. Hakeem would set up in the post, hold the ball for a few seconds to see if he could score, then would pass it out if he couldn't find an opening.

[Punpun]

Fallacy. Hakeem would set up in the post, hold the ball for a few seconds to see if he could score, then would pass it out if he couldn't find an opening.

That's better than forcing the shot.

[BoutPractice]

Hakeem's post moves are prettier and more adapted to the majority of post players. They're most effective for smaller, quicker bigman, which is why they're also great for perimeter players to learn.

McHale's post moves are more effective (as evidenced by his shooting percentage) but rely more on either height/wingspan or weight as well as the ability to establish deep post position.

So different body types make one or the other arsenal more useful.

Of course, in the end, if you're reaaally tall, nothing beats the skyhook/high release turnaround/old school hook shot, and if you're reaaally strong, nothing beats bully ball. Those moves may not be creative, but they work.

[AlexanderRight]

McHale's shooting percentage speaks for itself. :pimp:

[get these NETS]

if you wanna study post moves

look at game tape of the some of the stellar SFs of the 80s...
Agguirre, Dantley, King, Bird

wasn't always the low post...but these guys operated out of midpost or even high post...and as you move away from the basket...you have more room to operate...

these guys performed surgery on defenders..moves,countermoves..pumps, drop steps...

interesting thing about dream and mchale was....they aren't built like classic post players

big powerful legs...and butt...wide upper body and long arms...
creates space....helps you hold your position, and then wide upper body and long arms makes it more difficult for defender to challenge shot