I Just Noticed Something About The Super Hyped Career Of Kobe Bryant

[detroitdogg]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER. That means that in 13 seasons, he has not once done what Dwayne Wade has done numerous times in his short career. How the **** can you be the best player in the world when another players career averages are better than any season you ever played, **** is amazing to me.


Lets not start the conversation of how in the **** people compared this dude to Mike, let alone the people that think he is better. Im asking to yall, does the media have that much control over the fans of the league that they have forced ****** into thinking Kobe is anything like MJ, let alone D Wade. I honestly think D Wade is a far superior player to Kobe, easily to me. Jordan is on a level neither of them will ever see, but im 100% sure that Wade can get closer to that all around level than Kobe ever has and ever will.


I aint hating on Kobe at all, just pointing out facts to yall posters. I dont dislike Kobe, but I hate how fans feel about dude, his career numbers are not amazing, never got a lot of steals, hardly ever blocks a shot, never an assist man, never shot over 46%, failed in the finals twice, locked down in the finals twice, ect. Do fans really want to compare this dude to Jordan, let alone say he is better than D Wade, IDK what the hell is going on.

[RoseCity07]

If that's true, then that is pretty sad. Just another reason why D Wade is my favorite player.

[Al Thornton]

little facts are ****ing irrelevant

[Allstar24]

I aint hating on Kobe at all, just pointing out facts to yall posters. I dont dislike Kobe, but I hate how fans feel about dude, his career numbers are not amazing, never got a lot of steals, hardly ever blocks a shot, never an assist man, never shot over 46%, failed in the finals twice, locked down in the finals twice, ect. Do fans really want to compare this dude to Jordan, let alone say he is better than D Wade, IDK what the hell is going on.
Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections

[detroitdogg]

little facts are ****ing irrelevantCan you tell me how this is irrelevent fam, cause im confused, im thinking you are a hardcore Kobe fan that has absolutley nothing to say to disagree with what I said, therefore you came with the actual irrelevent ****, sorry fam, you lost.

[RoseCity07]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections

Wade is a better defender though. Kobe's defense is severely overrated, mean while Wade is the best shot blocking guard in the league. I'm always seeing Wade breaking up passes and getting fast breaks.

Few weeks ago he had the game winning shot off of a steal. Tonigth he blocked a shot in the clutch to secure a win. I never see Kobe making huge defensive plays.

[Allstar24]

Wade is a better defender though. Kobe's defense is severely overrated, mean while Wade is the best shot blocking guard in the league. I'm always seeing Wade breaking up passes and getting fast breaks.

Few weeks ago he had the game winning shot off of a steal. Tonigth he blocked a shot in the clutch to secure a win. I never see Kobe making huge defensive plays.
Right. When the facts favor Kobe, we use the "Kobe's defense is overrated" excuse :oldlol: Wade is a better defender this year but in terms of his career, he has a long way to go before he earns the same reputation as Kobe.

By the way, if you're talking about the Detroit game...it was a foul.

[detroitdogg]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selectionslol, wow, thats the best you got fam. How many of those all D Team selections came in his 1st 5 seasons, how about none.

If you dont think thats easily catchable then you are a fool fam. Wade is still only 3 years behind in age though, that can hurt in the long run i guess when comparing to Kobe, Kobe might have a 3 season advantage at the end of both their careers.

[spursdynasty420]

I like the point you are trying to make detroit but why are you calling him fam?? thats the dumbest **** ive ever heard. this isnt from g's to gents. this is a basketball forum

[InspiredLebowski]

Yeah fam!

[Showtime]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections
We both know he didn't deserve all 6. The past few years, he hasn't been a top two perimeter defender.

[Sanity]

Kobe can make a great legacy for himself. Hes not Jordan and never will be thats not a knock on Kobe or any player

[highwhey]

That's crazy...Wade is 27? He's old. WTF.

[detroitdogg]

That's crazy...Wade is 27? He's old. WTF.LOL, how the hell is that all you got out of this thread, that **** had me laughing like a motha****a

[starface]

I agree with OP and bring this up constantly.

Kobe has tons of ability but doesnt use it to do anything but score. The media often calls him "the greatest player on the planet" but what they should really be saying is "he is the greatest talent at swingman on the planet" (at least was for the last few years, not anymore tho) because first of all i'll take a decent big over him any day, and secondly he doesnt even use his talents to put the team first. he always wants to be the center of attention and use his skills to draw attention and credit to himself.

He's a selfish player at the end of the day. Always has been, always will be. I'm not tryin to hate on him either, I think he's a good guy and all, I just dont like his approach to team basketball.

And I really think he may be the most overrated basketball player in history.

[west]

I agree with OP and bring this up constantly.

Kobe has tons of ability but doesnt use it to do anything but score. The media often calls him "the greatest player on the planet" but what they should really be saying is "he is the greatest talent at swingman on the planet" (at least was for the last few years, not anymore tho) because first of all i'll take a decent big over him any day, and secondly he doesnt even use his talents to put the team first. he always wants to be the center of attention and use his skills to draw attention and credit to himself.

He's a selfish player at the end of the day. Always has been, always will be. I'm not tryin to hate on him either, I think he's a good guy and all, I just dont like his approach to team basketball.

And I really think he may be the most overrated basketball player in history.
Repped:applause:

[detroitdogg]

:roll: I love it when kobe bashers go on a rant and then add that little footnote *i am not a hater. lol go suck a dick you ******. just enjoy kobe and all nba players for who they are. you'll miss them when they're gone. and also i lol at those "young" nba fans who only look at stat sheets to determine greatness.

oh and by the way i am not a wade hater. lol :roll:Hold on you bum ass *****, I aint no young ***** first of all, im a grown ass 22 year old ***** with my own ****, so save that young **** for these lil ****** on this site. Now to what you said, I bet any amount of money I know more about basketball than you lil fella, im in school to do this **** for a living and I been watching the NBA every night since I was a lil kid, and I have had the luxury of having the league pass every ****in year since they made it, so dont come at me with that bull**** ass stats arguement. These are stats, but these are all ****in stats that ****in matter, especially to the dude that is suppose to be better than MJ, and the dude is not close.

I came with a stat arguement, an impact arguement, and I also said look at them throuh both they 1st 5 years, and Wade kills Kobe in every form of a comparison, and I know this is a 100% fact, so the **** you are talkin is irrelevent cause you are a diehard Kobe fan, come correct, cause ill crack yo head with any arguement you bring at me, statistical or skillwise. If you think Kobe is better skillwise, you are a damn fool. Other than Man D and the 3, what the **** can Kobe do better than Wade, answer that **** for me.

Ill give him back to basket skills over Wade also.

[Allstar24]

We both know he didn't deserve all 6. The past few years, he hasn't been a top two perimeter defender.
That's like saying Jordan didn't deserve all 9 of his selections :confusedshrug:

[starface]

That's like saying Jordan didn't deserve all 9 of his selections :confusedshrug:

all-league teams are votes. people like jay marioti and stephen a. smith vote for those things. that tells you how much stock to put in them.

[Showtime]

That's like saying Jordan didn't deserve all 9 of his selections :confusedshrug:
What? Jordan actually TRIED to defend people on a nightly basis, unlike Mr. "I only try against boxoffice stars" Bryant (aka "rise to the challenge" lol). Kobe has been inconsistent with his effort on defense for some time now, and not only that, but he is now getting beaten off the dribble and isn't the help defensive monster he once was several years back. Has Kobe EVER been the best defender in the game? No.

I'm not turning this into another MJ v Kobe debate, so I'll end this with: STOP equating the two, because they are separate players. MJ had the effort, the results, and the effectiveness that Kobe doesn't.

MJ aside, Kobe's defensive reputation has been just that: reputation, which was based upon his early 2000's and he is still riding the wave. Lebron and Wade have both been as effective, if not moreso, on the defensive end this season. Regardless of all-defensive teams, that's a fact.

[joe]

Hold on you bum ass *****, I aint no young ***** first of all, im a grown ass 22 year old ***** with my own ****, so save that young **** for these lil ****** on this site. Now to what you said, I bet any amount of money I know more about basketball than you lil fella, im in school to do this **** for a living and I been watching the NBA every night since I was a lil kid, and I have had the luxury of having the league pass every ****in year since they made it, so dont come at me with that bull**** ass stats arguement. These are stats, but these are all ****in stats that ****in matter, especially to the dude that is suppose to be better than MJ, and the dude is not close.

I came with a stat arguement, an impact arguement, and I also said look at them throuh both they 1st 5 years, and Wade kills Kobe in every form of a comparison, and I know this is a 100% fact, so the **** you are talkin is irrelevent cause you are a diehard Kobe fan, come correct, cause ill crack yo head with any arguement you bring at me, statistical or skillwise. If you think Kobe is better skillwise, you are a damn fool. Other than Man D and the 3, what the **** can Kobe do better than Wade, answer that **** for me.

Ill give him back to basket skills over Wade also.

I mostly agree with your argument. But there is something to be said about Wade being injury prone. He seems okay right now, but if he loses another season to injury he won't be young enough to just recover and dominate anymore.

[Allstar24]

What? Jordan actually TRIED to defend people on a nightly basis, unlike Mr. "I only try against boxoffice stars" Bryant (aka "rise to the challenge" lol). Kobe has been inconsistent with his effort on defense for some time now, and not only that, but he is now getting beaten off the dribble and isn't the help defensive monster he once was several years back. Has Kobe EVER been the best defender in the game? No.
No. I never said that. Anyway who do you think deserved it over Kobe for the last couple of years?


I'm not turning this into another MJ v Kobe debate, so I'll end this with: STOP equating the two, because they are separate players. MJ had the effort, the results, and the effectiveness that Kobe doesn't.

MJ aside, Kobe's defensive reputation has been just that: reputation, which was based upon his early 2000's and he is still riding the wave. Lebron and Wade have both been as effective, if not moreso, on the defensive end this season. Regardless of all-defensive teams, that's a fact.
You could say the same for MJ. He wasn't the best defensive guard after '96 but he still made the first team didn't he? Anyway I'd rather not talk about MJ, sorry for bringing him up.

[detroitdogg]

I mostly agree with your argument. But there is something to be said about Wade being injury prone. He seems okay right now, but if he loses another season to injury he won't be young enough to just recover and dominate anymore.I 100% cosign that, and trust and believe I know his career could easily be hurt by losing another season to a injury, reguardless of what numbers he puts up and where his record is at the point, the injury prone title will always dangle, im a fan, so I will always look at the possible positive side though.

[strifed169]

Kobe's all defensive team titles are one of the main reasons he's been labled one of the best in the planet andeven compared to Jordan, the only defensive thing he does is guard and contest a go to guy in the 4th and its on them to miss the shot which any one can do defensively or offensively.

[OldSchoolBBall]

That's like saying Jordan didn't deserve all 9 of his selections :confusedshrug:

There was no season save perhaps one where Jordan wasn't top 2 perimeter defender impact-wise. There is no similarity at all between Jordan's selections and Kobe's selections, and it's amusing that Kobe fans would even try to suggest such a thing. :oldlol:

Jordan at age 35 had a larger defensive impact on games than 27-30 year old Kobe.

[OldSchoolBBall]

You could say the same for MJ. He wasn't the best defensive guard after '96 but he still made the first team didn't he? Anyway I'd rather not talk about MJ, sorry for bringing him up.

Uhh yeah, he was. News flash. Him and Payton, who was a PG. No one else had the overall defensive impact Jordan did. Eddie Jones was good at man D but had nowhere near the help/team D of Jordan, and wasn't better than him at man D anyway until at least '98, if ever. Try again, kiddo.

[White Mamba]

Jordan at age 35 had a larger defensive impact on games than 27-30 year old Kobe.

BS

[andgar923]

Many people have wondered why Kobe ever made the all defense team.

Many also have mentioned how grossly overrated he is on defense.

I understand that stats don't tell the entire story when it comes to defense, but he's been either great or garbage which imo equates to inconsistency.

Many players have scored either season highs or career highs on him.

No name and role players have lit him up his entire career.

The coaching staff has criticized him on his defense.

Phil has even pulled him out of games in some occasions due to his mistakes.

I have always gave him credit for playing good to great denial defense, but that's where it begins and ends.

And nothing holds more truth than "When he wants to" when referring to Kobe. And even then, there's many times that "when he wants to" play defense he gets beat do to his aggressiveness.

Oh well.

[OldSchoolBBall]

BS

Actually, it's the truth. Go watch some games.

[andgar923]

BS

MJ was still one of the better defenders as a Wizard.

He locked up star players many times at the young age of 40.

So me thinks that a 35 year old MJ would still be pretty good.

[Allstar24]

Uhh yeah, he was. News flash. Him and Payton, who was a PG. No one else had the overall defensive impact Jordan did. Eddie Jones was good at man D but had nowhere near the help/team D of Jordan, and wasn't better than him at man D anyway until at least '98, if ever. Try again, kiddo.
I thought he lost a step after that. Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEmS8ZQIhTA&feature=related Did he even guard the opposing team's best player consistently? Anyway shouldn't have brought him up, I forgot how defensive you guys get at the mention of his name :oldlol: By the way, I think MJ's defense is miles ahead of Kobe...just saying, Kobe's not the only one who gets selected to these all-defensive first teams due to reputation.

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjcPCSgpoZM

[oh the horror]

How many times do you people have this same tired out conversation on this board? This seems to occur every week, every other day around here.


I mean its the SAME CONVERSATION, OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER AGAIN.


Sure, the thread point is slightly different, but its always about Kobe....and then it deteriorates into this....EVERYTIME.


Dammit.

[detroitdogg]

Many people have wondered why Kobe ever made the all defense team.

Many also have mentioned how grossly overrated he is on defense.

I understand that stats don't tell the entire story when it comes to defense, but he's been either great or garbage which imo equates to inconsistency.

Many players have scored either season highs or career highs on him.

No name and role players have lit him up his entire career.

The coaching staff has criticized him on his defense.

Phil has even pulled him out of games in some occasions due to his mistakes.

I have always gave him credit for playing good to great denial defense, but that's where it begins and ends.

And nothing holds more truth than "When he wants to" when referring to Kobe. And even then, there's many times that "when he wants to" play defense he gets beat do to his aggressiveness.

Oh well.I see you know your ish, cause I been saying that for years, Kobe has amazing ball denial defense, he bodies you and stays in your grill forcing players to catch the ball far on the perimeter, but he gets torched off the dribble, and it happends a lot. Truley, all 3 of them get beaten off the dribble often, you cant touch nobody on the perimeter, that definitley works against all 3.

[detroitdogg]

How many times do you people have this same tired out conversation on this board? This seems to occur every week, every other day around here.


I mean its the SAME CONVERSATION, OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER AGAIN.


Sure, the thread point is slightly different, but its always about Kobe....and then it deteriorates into this....EVERYTIME.


Dammit.IDK where these other conversations came from, but my thread pointed out some some big time stuff that would matter to the average basketball fan or a person on an analyst level, rather it matters to you or not I dont give a damn about, feel me. You seen the thread, try not clicking on the next Kobe, Wade, or Bron thread and I gurantee you will not have this reoccuring problem again bruh.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I thought he lost a step after that. Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEmS8ZQIhTA&feature=related Did he even guard the opposing team's best player consistently? Anyway shouldn't have brought him up, I forgot how defensive you guys get at the mention of his name :oldlol: By the way, I think MJ's defense is miles ahead of Kobe...just saying, Kobe's not the only one who gets selected to these all-defensive first teams due to reputation.

What am I supposed to see there? A 23 year old, 5'11" player who is possibly the quickest player in history carrying the ball flagrantly, and Jordan recovering to nearly block the shot at age 34? News flash: no SG defender guarded Iverson consistently.

And he guarded opposing SG's/combo guards and occasionally PG's. So if the "best player" was one of those, he probably guarded them.

And again, Jordan had the largest defensive impact on games of any guard in the league aside from Payton until his retirement in 1998. He also had a larger defensive impact on games in 1998 at age 35 than Kobe did in 2007 and 2008. Go watch the Bulls/Pacers series for evidence. So no, none of Jordan's selections were based on his rep. Some of Kobe's have been, as there have been more impactful defenders who could have been selected.

[GiveItToBurrito]

What am I supposed to see there? A 23 year old, 5'11" player who is possibly the quickest player in history carrying the ball flagrantly, and Jordan recovering to nearly block the shot at age 34? News flash: no SG defender guarded Iverson consistently.

And he guarded opposing SG's/combo guards and occasionally PG's. So if the "best player" was one of those, he probably guarded them.

And again, Jordan had the largest defensive impact on games of any guard in the league aside from Payton until his retirement in 1998. He also had a larger defensive impact on games in 1998 at age 35 than Kobe did in 2007 and 2008. Go watch the Bulls/Pacers series for evidence. So no, none of Jordan's selections were based on his rep. Some of Kobe's have been, as there have been more impactful defenders who could have been selected.

Yep. First of all, Iverson crossed over pretty much everyone in the league, and he dropped 30 or more on everyone, too, but he wasn't always very efficient doing it. Also, Jordan actually wasn't overrated as a defender; if you look at his defensive win share, it was consistently near the top of the league for his position, and always higher than Kobe's. By the way, Wade's defensive win share is also higher than Kobe's this year.

[White Mamba]

Actually, it's the truth. Go watch some games.

do not EVER tell me what to do.

[OldSchoolBBall]

For the record, I don't put much stock in defensive win shares or DRtg as a metric (in contrast to ORtg and OWS, which have fewer issues).

[GMW]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER.
The OP is making false claims.

Wade career stats: 0.9 blocks 1.8 steals
Kobe: 98/99: 1bpg, 99/00: 0.9bpg 02/03: 2.2 spg, 05/06 & 07/08: 1.8 spg

Lets also not forget that Kobe has averaged more points, rebounds, less turnovers and a better FT & 3pt% than Wade in every season since Wade has been in the league. Only this season Wade is on pace to score more ppg than Kobe.

[Scott Pippen]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER. That means that in 13 seasons, he has not once done what Dwayne Wade has done numerous times in his short career.

Why do you make an incorrect statement like this? :confusedshrug:

[White Mamba]

Kobe was not a starter early in is career.

[Yung D-Will]

"Anyone who judges the levels of basketball players by statisics is a fool and isn't a real basketball fan.You have to watch the game to see where amazing relly happends"
All 3 players are spectacular right now i personally think it's

1a.Kobe
1b.Lebron
1c.Wade

But that's my oppinion, im not gonna go make a thread to bash one of them just to make my canditate look better. Stop bashing and be a real basketball fan and just enjoy what they do.

[AJ2k8]

Yeah i agree with the post above... I think Kobe showed he was the premier swingman and shooting guard of the last probably decade and i still think he has the best all round game (IMO) regardless of what statistics show.

However i'm not going to make topics trying to make wade and lebron look bad because I'm sure one of them will soon establish themselves as the premier swingman of the next 10years:applause:

[sick_brah07]

who gives a **** wade is wade bryant is bryant if you dont like one of them dont watch them i however will watch both and try grasp as much as possible because in 10 years ill be saying damn these guys just cant play like wade kobe bron and blah blah

[~LA's fine$t~]

1) Wade did not spent 8 years of his career playing behind Shaquille O'Neal.
2) Wade has always played in a free lance system, Kobe has not.
3) Wade is not a better defensive player; people really need to distinguish between a good weak side defender and a good man to man defender.
4) Kobe is a completely different SG then Dwayne Wade, numbers never tell the entire story.
5) Kobe relies a lot more on his perimeter game, thus his PER will never be as high as Wade's because his FG% will logically be lower because it seems like these days he takes 80% of his shots from the perimeter. And the incredible thing is, he's still shooting like 47% from the perimeter. Only like 1 or 2% lower then Wade.

[Sriracha]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER. That means that in 13 seasons, he has not once done what Dwayne Wade has done numerous times in his short career. How the **** can you be the best player in the world when another players career averages are better than any season you ever played, **** is amazing to me.


Lets not start the conversation of how in the **** people compared this dude to Mike, let alone the people that think he is better. Im asking to yall, does the media have that much control over the fans of the league that they have forced ****** into thinking Kobe is anything like MJ, let alone D Wade. I honestly think D Wade is a far superior player to Kobe, easily to me. Jordan is on a level neither of them will ever see, but im 100% sure that Wade can get closer to that all around level than Kobe ever has and ever will.


I aint hating on Kobe at all, just pointing out facts to yall posters. I dont dislike Kobe, but I hate how fans feel about dude, his career numbers are not amazing, never got a lot of steals, hardly ever blocks a shot, never an assist man, never shot over 46%, failed in the finals twice, locked down in the finals twice, ect. Do fans really want to compare this dude to Jordan, let alone say he is better than D Wade, IDK what the hell is going on.

Geez golly, why the Kobe hate dude. So what if Wade has out of this world number? Kobe is still beter. :roll: :roll:

[DoGGa]

I have been around for hardly a week and Im sick and tired of all these useless Topics being made around here.


Stop it ffs. just enjoy the players for who they are.

You dont have to like one player to recognize his skill level and just enjoy his play.

Just because someone's not your favorite player dont mean you have to open topics like everyday to bash on the guy.

Let them be, Let them play the game they love to play,..and you just start appreciating what they do and start enjoying the game you obviously like to watch.


Get of guys ***** and enjoy the damn game.

[NBASTATMAN]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections


I am sure that will change after this year.. Wade should be mentioned as dpoy... He is playing on another level...

[Mdog1]

Kobe Bryant is a fantastic player. One of the best individual talents in the league. Problem is he plays a team game which is ultimately his weakspot. He doesn't play team basketball which makes him a lesser player then others by default.

Kobes D has been over rated for quite some time, and I remember seeing that he was in the race for DPOY which to me is completely rubish.

Wade's D is becoming over rated though to. I like the way he plays, playing passing lanes is a great way to put up stats, but it can hurt your team if you miss that pass. And that foul last night should have been called, but it wasn't so it was not a foul.

[DukeDelonte13]

Clearly at this point wade is a level above kobe but we will have to wait until both careers are over to really determine which one was better.

[KenneBell]

LOL, ISH never fails to amaze me.:roll:

[BallPhunk]

uggggggg.

Reading each post in yet another similarly themed thread, what strikes me as funny is, as always, 80%+ of the posts say how much Kobe sucks in one form or another and how much Kobe's fans REALLY suck because they are obsessed with him. :rolleyes:

Kobe fans just don't understand he's not the best!!!, and if only they'd quite filling the forums, page after page, post after post, with pro-Kobe crap! IF ONLY!

You might not believe me because it's hard to find all the pro-Kobe crap behind all the I-hate-Kobe-OH-LOOK-I-found-some-other-angle-to-bash-him threads, but trust me - they're there! Keep up the good work keeping them in line.

[Younggrease]

We both know he didn't deserve all 6. The past few years, he hasn't been a top two perimeter defender.

says the guy sitting behind the computer with 0 experience in the NBA and prob 0 experience playing ball.

[spursdynasty420]

do not EVER tell me what to do.


yah fam. dont EVVER!!!!

[gts]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER. first off i love the pick and choose use of wades career numbers vs season numbers but oh well... we'll see how this works out when wade has been in the league 13 years...

wade career
25 ppg, kobe 8 seasons above
fg 48% wade wins this
3pt% 27% kobe 11 seasons better
rbds 4.9 kobe 11 seasons better
asst 6.7 nobody has ever averaged that high an assist number in a PJ coached team except once
stl 1.7 kobe 5 seasons equal or better
blk 1.0 kobe 1 season equal

oh yeah its Dwyane not Dwayne

[Showtime]

says the guy sitting behind the computer with 0 experience in the NBA and prob 0 experience playing ball.
I don't need NBA experience to see who the best defenders are. Does that mean that because you aren't in the NBA, that you don't know wtf you are talking about? According to your logic: yes.

The best defenders are the most consistent and effective. Kobe can be effective, but he's not consistent and doesn't commit as much from play to play as other defenders. Because of this, he often looks disinterested on defense and gets beaten off the dribble and he doesn't really stop anybody when he's not trying. The only exceptions are when he tries, which usually comes in late game situations against top tier opponents. Also, he's just not as effective as he was a few years ago. He's not as good of an individual defender, nor is he the help defender he once was. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability to be a top perimeter defender, it's just that he doesn't want to play like one. Not to mention that he's not even assigned the toughest assignment. Ariza gets that job. I judge players by what they do, not what you think they could do if they decided to try. I'm not saying he's become Steve Nash, I'm saying that there have been other players who deserved first team over Kobe the past few years because they were more consistent and effective.

[Juges8932]

To say there isn't anything in common between Kobe and Michael is either ignorance or bias. I'm not saying that Kobe=MJ, but they have very similar style of play offensively for scoring. Both were/can be lock-down defenders. When Kobe wants to lock somebody down, nobody in the NBA RIGHT NOW is better than him IMO. And yeah, I have no idea why he didn't guard Iggy last week either. Kobe passes a lot, and to say he doesn't is wrong, especially the past couple of seasons. Sometimes he frustrates me because he gets too into chuck-mode, but a lot of times he goes to scoring a ton, especially late in games, because that's what his team needs. If Kobe scores 15-20 points in the 4th to rally the Lakers to a win, then OMFG, Kobe= Amazing, but then when Kobe tries to get the Lakers a win, but either doesn't have it that game or his team doesn't back him, then OMFG, Kobe=Selfish Chucker who is good for nothing. Please. As far as Wade being a better defender than Kobe. Probably this year that's true, but not by a mile. Wade is amazing help side blocks and getting in the passing lanes, which is where a lot of his blocks/steals come from, but the stats can be misleading. A lot of steals come from gambling too much and can result in him getting beat, and that applies to Kobe too, more-so probably, which is why I think Wade is better at defense this year overall, but not man-to-man lock-down situation. As far as MVP, I truly believe it is Wade, but MVP doesn't necessarily mean best player. Just because LBJ's stats are ridiculous doesn't make him the best. Kobe doesn't have to do as much and plays less time, so, naturally, stats are going to be lower, but I can see that would exclude him from MVP, because he's not needed to do as much anymore. But between Wade and LBJ, it should be Wade. He is basically carrying 3 bums and a cripple with him (OK, exaggerated) and lighting up the stat sheet just like LBJ. But for some reason, MVP has= best player on best team lately. So LBJ will get it.

[Psileas]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER. That means that in 13 seasons, he has not once done what Dwayne Wade has done numerous times in his short career. How the **** can you be the best player in the world when another players career averages are better than any season you ever played, **** is amazing to me.

1) Wrong, Kobe had a season with more than 1.8 steals and 2 more seasons with marginally more than Wade's career average of 1.825.
2) No-one ever said that Kobe was better than Wade at stealing, blocking or passing.
3) Wait till Wade's career is over. Then we'll be able to compare their numbers better. Kobe had played 7 whole years before Wade was a rookie, including at ages when Wade was just learning the college game.
4) Did you notice that Kobe's career scoring average after the age of 20-21 (Wade wasn't even a rookie at that age) is higher than any scoring Wade had ever produced in a single season up to 2008?
Did you also notice that Kobe's career average at rebounding is worse only than Wade's career high in a single season?
5) Greatness at times is more than stats. How could Wade have a serious case to be over Kobe in '07, when he missed 31 games and lost in round 1, with better teammates in a weaker conference? How could he compare in '08, when his team completely missed everything (and he played in only 51 games)? How could he compare as a rookie? That's 6 seasons they played against each other, and I'd only compare Wade seriously for 3 of them. Which still leaves 7 career seasons more for Kobe to increase their distance in career achievements.

[Mdog1]

I Just Noticed Something About The Super Hyped Career Of Kobe Bryant he has played in LA for the entire time :O.

[jrong]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections

"Reputation" being the key word.

[MrEncinas]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade made All-NBA Defensive second team in 04-05. You also forgot to add that Kobe is in his 13th season where as Wade is in just his 6th season.

[jjayfive]

wow... is dwade really 27 already? time flies!!!

[Allstar24]

Wade made All-NBA Defensive second team in 04-05.You also forgot to add that Kobe is in his 13th season where as Wade is in just his 6th season.
Kobe made the all defensive second team 2 times...I didn't feel the need to mention that.


"Reputation" being the key word.
Which Kobe earned by playing good defense consistently throughout his career and something which Wade is yet to earn. One season of being a great defensive guard doesn't place him over Kobe.

[BallPhunk]

1) Wrong, Kobe had a season with more than 1.8 steals and 2 more seasons with marginally more than Wade's career average of 1.825.
2) No-one ever said that Kobe was better than Wade at stealing, blocking or passing.
3) Wait till Wade's career is over. Then we'll be able to compare their numbers better. Kobe had played 7 whole years before Wade was a rookie, including at ages when Wade was just learning the college game.
4) Did you notice that Kobe's career scoring average after the age of 20-21 (Wade wasn't even a rookie at that age) is higher than any scoring Wade had ever produced in a single season up to 2008?
Did you also notice that Kobe's career average at rebounding is worse only than Wade's career high in a single season?
5) Greatness at times is more than stats. How could Wade have a serious case to be over Kobe in '07, when he missed 31 games and lost in round 1, with better teammates in a weaker conference? How could he compare in '08, when his team completely missed everything (and he played in only 51 games)? How could he compare as a rookie? That's 6 seasons they played against each other, and I'd only compare Wade seriously for 3 of them. Which still leaves 7 career seasons more for Kobe to increase their distance in career achievements.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Psileas again.

[swyftdahoe]

All I know is neither player has won any titles without Shaq.

Whatever.

[swyftdahoe]

wow... is dwade really 27 already? time flies!!!

It's called college.

[All Net]

1) Wrong, Kobe had a season with more than 1.8 steals and 2 more seasons with marginally more than Wade's career average of 1.825.
2) No-one ever said that Kobe was better than Wade at stealing, blocking or passing.
3) Wait till Wade's career is over. Then we'll be able to compare their numbers better. Kobe had played 7 whole years before Wade was a rookie, including at ages when Wade was just learning the college game.
4) Did you notice that Kobe's career scoring average after the age of 20-21 (Wade wasn't even a rookie at that age) is higher than any scoring Wade had ever produced in a single season up to 2008?
Did you also notice that Kobe's career average at rebounding is worse only than Wade's career high in a single season?
5) Greatness at times is more than stats. How could Wade have a serious case to be over Kobe in '07, when he missed 31 games and lost in round 1, with better teammates in a weaker conference? How could he compare in '08, when his team completely missed everything (and he played in only 51 games)? How could he compare as a rookie? That's 6 seasons they played against each other, and I'd only compare Wade seriously for 3 of them. Which still leaves 7 career seasons more for Kobe to increase their distance in career achievements.

Thats all that needs to be said..great post.

[Terp in LA]

I also said look at them throuh both they 1st 5 years, and Wade kills Kobe in every form of a comparison

Looking at the first five years of both their careers is very circumstantial. Kobe came into a team where he came off the bench for the first year, and put up those first five years numbers you saw with a Shaq who was in his prime.

Dwyane Wade, on the other hand, put up his numbers as his team's number one option right out the gates. You should be statistically more impressive when you're your team's first option from the beginning (see: LeBron James). Kobe wasn't.

What's also circumstantial is, like somebody else mentioned, where they're playing, and who they're playing with. The Western Conference has been markedly tougher than the Eastern Conference during both of their runs thus far, and the level of talent they have to play with. Wade has had to be the workhorse for his team for some time now.

If you want to play the stat game, think of the circumstances: during the Shaq era, he put up great numbers as the team's second option. Since, he's put up great numbers as his team's first option.

I'm like a lot of you folks though, stats are pretty meaningless to me. They're nice little bits to help you remember someone's career, or a convenient means to quantify someone's accomplishments, but I don't use them for the basis of determining whether a career was meaningless or not. As an educated basketball fan, I can look back at Kobe's career thus far and look at his game objectively and understand he has been the more dominant player.

[xcesswee]

I lose respect for a player's defensive ability when he isn't guarding the best or second best perimeter player in the NBA finals even though he's considered by many the best perimeter defender in the league.

[c_az_a]

D-Wade has something over Kobe Bryant --> A dominant NBA finals performance. D-Wade first finals appearance spectacular. Compare that with Kobe 5th finals appearance. Why did Kobe struggle in his 5th finals appearance and D-Wade exploded in his 1st?

Who carried Shaq in the finals? D-Wade. Who needed a prime Shaq to win titles? Kobe.

People say Kobe is the best scorer in the league. 2-times.

And he's suppose to be better than Jordan's 10-times.

I did a wiki search for this. Scoring champion was listed for Kobe but not for Jordan. Why? Because that's the only thing Kobe can do? Score. And it takes him for attempts to get to 30 than LeBron. Look at LeBron game seven performance against Boston --> 40+ pts. Check Kobe game six performance --> 39 pt blowout.

[BallPhunk]

D-Wade has something over Kobe Bryant --> A dominant NBA finals performance. D-Wade first finals appearance spectacular. Compare that with Kobe 5th finals appearance. Why did Kobe struggle in his 5th finals appearance and D-Wade exploded in his 1st?

2006 Dallas Mavericks Defensive Rating: 11th of 30
2008 Boston Celtics Defensive Rating: 1st of 30 (and no doubt the actual difference between those two defenses are bigger than 10 spots)

Could have something to do with it, but you don't really care.


Who carried Shaq in the finals? D-Wade. Who needed a prime Shaq to win titles? Kobe.
Who the heat played, Shaq's actual contribution and such have been talked about, but you don't really care.


People say Kobe is the best scorer in the league. 2-times.

And he's suppose to be better than Jordan's 10-times.

Ah yes, the minions of phantom Kobe fans you fight the good fight against. FIGHT ON! (btw - I'm ignoring the logic gap in your 2 statements above cause you don't really care)



I did a wiki search for this. Scoring champion was listed for Kobe but not for Jordan. Why?

Cause the internets is broken.



I did a wiki search for this. Scoring champion was listed for Kobe but not for Jordan. Why? Because that's the only thing Kobe can do? Score. And it takes him for attempts to get to 30 than LeBron. Look at LeBron game seven performance against Boston --> 40+ pts. Check Kobe game six performance --> 39 pt blowout.

C'mon. You didn't have to wiki search that. You have it memorized, right? (that you really care about)

:rolleyes:

[Slam13]

Wade is hyped too.

[Slam13]

All I know is neither player has won any titles without Shaq.

Whatever.
Kobe has won 2 scoring titles without Shaq.

[steeph28]

2006 Dallas Mavericks Defensive Rating: 11th of 30
2008 Boston Celtics Defensive Rating: 1st of 30 (and no doubt the actual difference between those two defenses are bigger than 10 spots)

Could have something to do with it, but you don't really care.


Who the heat played, Shaq's actual contribution and such have been talked about, but you don't really care.


Ah yes, the minions of phantom Kobe fans you fight the good fight against. FIGHT ON! (btw - I'm ignoring the logic gap in your 2 statements above cause you don't really care)



Cause the internets is broken.



C'mon. You didn't have to wiki search that. You have it memorized, right? (that you really care about)

:rolleyes:


lol, i think that guy's sole purpose is to bash kobe at every corner.

[c_az_a]

2006 Dallas Mavericks Defensive Rating: 11th of 30
2008 Boston Celtics Defensive Rating: 1st of 30 (and no doubt the actual difference between those two defenses are bigger than 10 spots)

Could have something to do with it, but you don't really care.


Who the heat played, Shaq's actual contribution and such have been talked about, but you don't really care.


Ah yes, the minions of phantom Kobe fans you fight the good fight against. FIGHT ON! (btw - I'm ignoring the logic gap in your 2 statements above cause you don't really care)



Cause the internets is broken.



C'mon. You didn't have to wiki search that. You have it memorized, right? (that you really care about)

:rolleyes:

Both the Celts and the Mavs had 2-0 series lead. Was it Kobe or Wade that brought his team back from 0-2 to win the series? Hype suggests it would be Kobe. After all, if you were the best basketball player in the league, 0-2 is nothing. If you were the best basketball player in the league and your team had a 18 pt lead, you will make sure to keep the other team from coming back. Of course, that Mavs team beat the Spurs and Suns in route to the finals while the Celts had to go to game seven against the Hawks and LeBron James. Spurs and Suns of those seasons > Hawks and maybe a struggling LeBron James. Yet, Kobe exit from the finals last year in a 39 pt is really comparable to D-Wade finals heroics. Kobe in the first quarter of that blowout game taunted a fan after draining a three "It's not over." If Kobe was a man of his words, he would have shined when it matters. Or at least shine above the performance of D-Wade.

Yet if you are hype as the best, why don't you perform like one in the NBA finals?

[GiveItToBurrito]

Kobe has won 2 scoring titles without Shaq.

AI and Alex English won scoring titles, too. Kobe's great, and was a top three player in the league all decade, but the scoring titles argument is silly.

[kNIOKAS]

Kobe has won 2 scoring titles without Shaq.
because he couldn't win single scoring title with shaq.

[PleezeBelieve]

I see Psileas has made his grand appearance. You's best betvif someone is telling the truth about Kobe's overrated-ness, sileas will come to his rescue trying to manipulate truth and fantasy into one.

[PoGoMon]

Of course not :oldlol:

Anyway, since you're "just pointing out facts", its also a fact that Wade has yet to earn the reputation of being a great defender.

Kobe (30 years old)- 6 All-Defensive First Team selections
Wade (27 years old)- 0 All-Defensive First Team selections

All defensive team selections are made by a bunch of WRITERS & analysts like Ernie on TNT- for cryin' out loud.In other words, those selections/"HONORS" mean ZILCH, nothing, nada, crapola,etc.:roll:

[Godfather]

The Mavs of 06 were nothing compared to the Celtics of last year.

I think we can all agree Kobe would have annihilated them...without Shaq.

@ Pogoman...you are coming off as an insolent child.

[PoGoMon]

The Mavs of 06 were nothing compared to the Celtics of last year.

I think we can all agree Kobe would have annihilated them...without Shaq.

@ Pogoman...you are coming off as an insolent child.

YADA, YADA, YADA, son.

[BallPhunk]

Both the Celts and the Mavs had 2-0 series lead. Was it Kobe or Wade that brought his team back from 0-2 to win the series? Hype suggests it would be Kobe. After all, if you were the best basketball player in the league, 0-2 is nothing. If you were the best basketball player in the league and your team had a 18 pt lead, you will make sure to keep the other team from coming back. Of course, that Mavs team beat the Spurs and Suns in route to the finals while the Celts had to go to game seven against the Hawks and LeBron James. Spurs and Suns of those seasons > Hawks and maybe a struggling LeBron James. Yet, Kobe exit from the finals last year in a 39 pt is really comparable to D-Wade finals heroics. Kobe in the first quarter of that blowout game taunted a fan after draining a three "It's not over." If Kobe was a man of his words, he would have shined when it matters. Or at least shine above the performance of D-Wade.

Yet if you are hype as the best, why don't you perform like one in the NBA finals?

As I said in my response (and proven since you ignored the facts in it), you don't really care. You've got a set of "go-to responses" in your head that you trot out for every Kobe related thread.

And you're actually making an argument based on "Hype" is a situation 2 years apart with completely different circumstances??? Wonderful. :rolleyes:

Again:
2006 Dallas Mavericks Defensive Rating: 11th of 30
2008 Boston Celtics Defensive Rating: 1st of 30 (and no doubt the actual difference between those two defenses are bigger than 10 spots)

[zay_24]

I agree with OP and bring this up constantly.

Kobe has tons of ability but doesnt use it to do anything but score. The media often calls him "the greatest player on the planet" but what they should really be saying is "he is the greatest talent at swingman on the planet" (at least was for the last few years, not anymore tho) because first of all i'll take a decent big over him any day, and secondly he doesnt even use his talents to put the team first. he always wants to be the center of attention and use his skills to draw attention and credit to himself.

He's a selfish player at the end of the day. Always has been, always will be. I'm not tryin to hate on him either, I think he's a good guy and all, I just dont like his approach to team basketball.

And I really think he may be the most overrated basketball player in history.
Stopped reading there.

[lilgodfather1]

The Mavs of 06 were nothing compared to the Celtics of last year.

I think we can all agree Kobe would have annihilated them...without Shaq.

@ Pogoman...you are coming off as an insolent child.
You are calling him a child, but you are being very immature.

[ACCBaller1403]

I don't want to get wrapped up in this because they are the top 3 players in the league, but one thing keeps nagging at me...

LA fans always say "it's not about the stats" when talking about Kobe. However, when Kobe averaged 35 a game, they couldn't contain their anger that he didn't win MVP because he was a legendary scorer, scored 81 in a game, outscored the Mavs, etc.

So is it or isn't it about the stats? When they favor your argument it's about the stats?

That is all.

[BallPhunk]

I don't want to get wrapped up in this because they are the top 3 players in the league, but one thing keeps nagging at me...

LA fans always say "it's not about the stats" when talking about Kobe. However, when Kobe averaged 35 a game, they couldn't contain their anger that he didn't win MVP because he was a legendary scorer, scored 81 in a game, outscored the Mavs, etc.

So is it or isn't it about the stats? When they favor your argument it's about the stats?

That is all.

It's like that for EVERY fan/poster of EVERY player/team on this site (nearly all of them anyway). :eek: Open your eyes. This just bugs you cause of your own bias.

And sometimes stats mean more in one case than another. That's why logic was invented (for Kobe vs MJ vs LBJ arguments!)

[Lone Laker]

All defensive team selections are made by a bunch of WRITERS & analysts like Ernie on TNT- for cryin' out loud.In other words, those selections/"HONORS" mean ZILCH, nothing, nada, crapola,etc.:roll:
http://www.nba.com/news/defensive_team_080512.html

The award is voted on by the coaches....

[1~Gibson~1]

All defensive team selections are made by a bunch of WRITERS & analysts like Ernie on TNT- for cryin' out loud.In other words, those selections/"HONORS" mean ZILCH, nothing, nada, crapola,etc.:roll:maybe if he only had 1, then i'd probably agree becuase there are alot of homers out there, but Kobe was a great defender (he's declined to GOOD defender now but can lock you down when he needs to) and he earned those achievements. You dont get picked SIX times just becuase people like you. That only happens like once or twice

[ACCBaller1403]

It's like that for EVERY fan/poster of EVERY player/team on this site (nearly all of them anyway). :eek: Open your eyes. This just bugs you cause of your own bias.

And sometimes stats mean more in one case than another. That's why logic was invented (for Kobe vs MJ vs LBJ arguments!)

How am I biased against Kobe? I lived in LA for years. I support the Wizards now. I don't see fans of any players make double standards for their players more than Kobe fans. Just the way I see it.

I don't care at all for Wade since he kills the Wizards all the time. Ditto for James. I have 0 reason to be biased one way or the other for or against Kobe.

When Kobe was losing it's about stats. When he's winning its about team wins.

Garnett now is the only other person in the league that gets the double standard treatment as much as Kobe but Garnett has gotten it 1 year. Kobe's gotten it ever since Shaq left.

[The_Yearning]

It's called college.

and held back.

[dynasty1978]

Yet another pointless thread propping another player at the expense of Kobe...price of greatness i suppose.

[dynasty1978]

http://www.nba.com/news/defensive_team_080512.html

The award is voted on by the coaches....

Just owned this thread :oldlol:

[jrong]

Dwyane Wade, on the other hand, put up his numbers as his team's number one option right out the gates.

I've been mostly staying out of this one, but I have to correct you. Wade began his career playing PG and was the #3 option behind Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Only in the playoffs did he become the team's #1 option. And his second year, he began as option 1b to Shaq's 1a; then later in the season he became more of the 1a to Shaq's 1b. It was only in his third season that he became a true #1 with Shaq being clearly just a #2.

For this reason, Wade's career stats look low compared to the level of production with which we associate him. Kobe, of course, had the same experience in the beginning of his career. Both of their careers serve as examples of why I don't like career averages as a measure of player comparison.

[millencolin735]

Numbers are very decieving. We should never go off numbers to determine said player is better than player B. The fact of the matter is wade has the better numbers not because he's a better defender. It's because he's a good help defender on the blocks, most of his blocks come from behind. His steals come from him cheating, and playing the passing lanes, which i might add more often than not does not work, and typically leads to easy baskets for the opposing team because theyre essentially playing 4 on 5 after that. Kobe's a traditional on ball defender, a majority of his steals come from picking the pockets, or stripping his defenders. Sometimes he will gamble, and leave his team high, and dry because of it. As for blocks he doesnt roam around as much as wade does, but most of, if not all his blocks come from help d as well. 2 different players, in so many ways, both on O, and D. Cant just say so, and so is better cause he has better numbers here, and there, because theyre so much more to the than bull **** stats.

[Tainted Sword]

It's hilarious how many people on this site hate Kobe Bryant. It has to be 95% of the board.

[millencolin735]

It's hilarious how many people on this site hate Kobe Bryant. It has to be 95% of the board.

Yea, but for everyone there is a Kobe ******ger to boot. The retarted yin, to the retarted yang i suppose. Neither can live, or exsist without the other haha.

[Knoe Itawl]

It's hilarious how many people on this site hate Kobe Bryant. It has to be 95% of the board.

Disliking Kobe Bryant is not the main issue. Plenty of people dislike other players. What people hate more than Bryant himself are his obnoxious, illogical and downright creepy hero worshipping fanatics (note: I didn't put all of his fans in this category, but there are a lot that fit that bill and pollute message boards with the same "Kobe is GOAT cuz I said so" garbage) and the ridiculous hype he gets and how overrated he is (though he is obviously one of the top players in the game).

People disliking Kobe the person/player actually comes last for most people.

[Knoe Itawl]

maybe if he only had 1, then i'd probably agree becuase there are alot of homers out there, but Kobe was a great defender (he's declined to GOOD defender now but can lock you down when he needs to) and he earned those achievements. You dont get picked SIX times just becuase people like you. That only happens like once or twice

Bullshyt. One consistant thing I see from all types of NBA fans (except his fans of course) is the belief that he's been far overrated on defense and gotten by with rep points over actual accomplishment. When you take away all of his fans hyping his defense, you get few people praising it anywhere near as much. And I'm not talking about so called "haters" either. I'm talking about neutral people as well. I wonder why that is?

[Scott Pippen]

People disliking Kobe the person/player actually comes last for most people.
In fact, some may not even dislike Kobe at all. :applause:

But still it is not smart to judge someone's character whom you have never met away from camera, in my opinion.

[andgar923]

A while back somebody made a thread similar to this. Stating how overrated Kobe is as a defender.

Somebody came through and posted some of the matchups and they didn't favor Kobe at all.

Matter of fact, some of them were downright embarrassing.

Now....

He does play great defense on some possessions. And to his credit, he has alot of responsibilities on the offensive end as well. He's also great at ball denial defense and putting pressure when the offensive player is "setting" up the play.

BUT.....

In all honesty, I've seen him get beat more throughout his entire career than him play great defense.

He does play better defense than some other past star wingmen, I'll say that. But his inconsistencies and errors are very visible to any objectionable observant. At times I sit there and shake my head at the lack of desire or horrid way he positions himself.

82 games did an observation on Kobe's defense (again.... further proof that some think he's overrated). They used a game sample, which they admitted wasn't the tell all, but it was something to gauge him on. They noted how for every good defensive play, he had more were he seemed disinterested, where he'd get beat, make rotation mistakes etc.etc. Which again... speaks of his inconsistency and almost extreme nature.

And just like his so called "clutchness" people often remember the time he makes the great play, but not the dozens of times where he fails. The ratio in many people's opinions isn't warranted for such high praise and accolades.

The worst part is, he was even a worse defender when he was younger. His understanding of defensive principles was elementary, his will to play defense was embarrassing. Sure he had some moments, but overall he wasn't All Defense material.

And if he was, than that truly speaks on this era's defensive decline.

[gts]

82 games did an observation on Kobe's defense (again.... further proof that some think he's overrated). They used a game sample, which they admitted wasn't the tell all, but it was something to gauge him on. They noted how for every good defensive play, he had more were he seemed disinterested, where he'd get beat, make rotation mistakes etc.etc. Which again... speaks of his inconsistency and almost extreme nature.link please

[OldSchoolBBall]

link please

I remember it too; maybe 1-2 years ago. No link though.

[gts]

I remember it too; maybe 1-2 years ago. No link though.82 games archives everything, you can pull up articles from years ago.. i looked i didn't see right off the bat but don't feel like looking through several years of artcles without a title
since he quoted it he should be able to find it easy enough for us

[purple8gold]

What is this, another Kobe-hating thread? LOL

Okay, Wade is better than Kobe. There you go, sweetie. Happy? :D

[gts]

What is this, another Kobe-hating thread? LOL

Okay, Wade is better than Kobe. There you go, sweetie. Happy? :Dit's the weekly meeting of kobe stans vs. haters.. soon to be a hit reality TV show...lol

[andgar923]

82 games archives everything, you can pull up articles from years ago.. i looked i didn't see right off the bat but don't feel like looking through several years of artcles without a title
since he quoted it he should be able to find it easy enough for us

I didn't quote it, never did I claim it was a quote. I was just paraphrasing from what I remembered.

http://www.82games.com/pelton8.htm

Happy?

I've been known to stop by Kpah's youtube page and breakdown Kobe's defense. And lets just say I made some observations that most people missed, and they weren't flattering to Kobe.

I think it was vs the Grizzlies and in the first quarter alone, he committed many mistakes.

But don't worry..... I think Bron and Wade are overrated as well. But I think Wade is slightly better than Kobe (not by much), but this season he's really made an impression, and not due to his stats either. His IQ has increased tremendously and his effort has jumped significantly. He's playing better defense than Bryant ever has, and the stats to a degree are a reflection of that. Of course its not the tell all sign, but it helps to convince and separate him.

Bron gets beat all the time. Used to be a bad defender with good court awareness and athletic ability to be disruptive, but has now improved to a a decent defender with great court awareness.

Wade imo is better than both in every aspect except ball denial.... Kobe wins that hands down.

[gts]

I didn't quote it, never did I claim it was a quote. I was just paraphrasing from what I remembered.

http://www.82games.com/pelton8.htm

Happy?

I've been known to stop by Kpah's youtube page and breakdown Kobe's defense. And lets just say I made some observations that most people missed, and they weren't flattering to Kobe.

I think it was vs the Grizzlies and in the first quarter alone, he committed many mistakes.

But don't worry..... I think Bron and Wade are overrated as well. But I think Wade is slightly better than Kobe (not by much), but this season he's really made an impression, and not due to his stats either. His IQ has increased tremendously and his effort has jumped significantly. He's playing better defense than Bryant ever has, and the stats to a degree are a reflection of that. Of course its not the tell all sign, but it helps to convince and separate him.

Bron gets beat all the time. Used to be a bad defender with good court awareness and athletic ability to be disruptive, but has now improved to a a decent defender with great court awareness.

Wade imo is better than both in every aspect except ball denial.... Kobe wins that hands down.lol i didn't ask for your life story just the link.... j/k
thanks btw

edit: this is what i though you were talking about... this article (the authors opinons) is based on just one game, the very first game of the season 4 years ago... but yeah lets quote it as gospel, and use the first game of the season to judge everyone by from here on it...

[andgar923]

lol i didn't ask for your life story just the link.... j/k
thanks btw

edit: this is what i though you were talking about... this article (the authors opinons) is based on just one game, the very first game of the season 4 years ago... but yeah lets quote it as gospel, and use the first game of the season to judge everyone by from here on it...

I didn't quote it as gospel, I used it as an "example" I even noted in my post that it wasn't the "tell all" sign, but just something to measure him by.

And its very consistent with almost every game he's ever played.

And remember his own coaching staff has called him out on his defense. His on/off stats don't support the notion that he's an All NBA Defense 1st team either.

Again.... are these stats the sole factor to determining his defense? NO

But its something that we can use to gauge him and compare him. And when you have his own coaching staff call him out and Phil pull him out in games, dontcha think that means something?

[Tainted Sword]

Disliking Kobe Bryant is not the main issue. Plenty of people dislike other players. What people hate more than Bryant himself are his obnoxious, illogical and downright creepy hero worshipping fanatics (note: I didn't put all of his fans in this category, but there are a lot that fit that bill and pollute message boards with the same "Kobe is GOAT cuz I said so" garbage) and the ridiculous hype he gets and how overrated he is (though he is obviously one of the top players in the game).

People disliking Kobe the person/player actually comes last for most people.
lol what fanatics? There are hardly any of them left, yet the site still hates on Kobe at the level they did last year. Loki, showtime, tmacsrockets, you, PB, and plenty of others still crap on him at every chance. But, where’s Poseidon and the other Kobe groupies? To be honest, they’ve been in a hole somewhere since the finals.

It seems people like you are the ones keeping Kobe discussion strong on this board. Just look at this thread, it’s a bunch of haters wacking off about how much they “hate” Kobe Bryant. You only post in Kobe threads. It's hilarious.

[dynasty1978]

[QUOTE=Tainted Sword]lol what fanatics? There are hardly any of them left, yet the site still hates on Kobe at the level they did last year. Loki, showtime, tmacsrockets, you, PB, and plenty of others still crap on him at every chance. But, where

[Terp in LA]

I've been mostly staying out of this one, but I have to correct you. Wade began his career playing PG and was the #3 option behind Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Only in the playoffs did he become the team's #1 option. And his second year, he began as option 1b to Shaq's 1a; then later in the season he became more of the 1a to Shaq's 1b. It was only in his third season that he became a true #1 with Shaq being clearly just a #2.

For this reason, Wade's career stats look low compared to the level of production with which we associate him. Kobe, of course, had the same experience in the beginning of his career. Both of their careers serve as examples of why I don't like career averages as a measure of player comparison.

True, makes sense.

[John Smith]

the only thing that keeps the soft, crying ****** afloat is the millions of homers in lalaland. kobe can thank them for his career success (as well as SHAQ).:rockon:

[TmacsRockets]

Are yall aware that Kobe has never had 1, thats right, the number 1, Kobe has never had 1 season in his 13 year career averaging more blocks, steals, assists, or FG% than Dwayne Wade HAS AVERAGED FOR HIS ****IN CAREER. That means that in 13 seasons, he has not once done what Dwayne Wade has done numerous times in his short career. How the **** can you be the best player in the world when another players career averages are better than any season you ever played, **** is amazing to me.


Lets not start the conversation of how in the **** people compared this dude to Mike, let alone the people that think he is better. Im asking to yall, does the media have that much control over the fans of the league that they have forced ****** into thinking Kobe is anything like MJ, let alone D Wade. I honestly think D Wade is a far superior player to Kobe, easily to me. Jordan is on a level neither of them will ever see, but im 100% sure that Wade can get closer to that all around level than Kobe ever has and ever will.


I aint hating on Kobe at all, just pointing out facts to yall posters. I dont dislike Kobe, but I hate how fans feel about dude, his career numbers are not amazing, never got a lot of steals, hardly ever blocks a shot, never an assist man, never shot over 46%, failed in the finals twice, locked down in the finals twice, ect. Do fans really want to compare this dude to Jordan, let alone say he is better than D Wade, IDK what the hell is going on.

Excellent thread and post. This is a 5 star.:cheers:

[Allstar24]

Oh sh*t, TmacsRockets has found this thread! :banghead:

[Juges8932]

Oh sh*t, TmacsRockets has found this thread! :banghead:

I second that sentiment.

[TmacsRockets]

link please

I remember it as well.