If Cavs finish with 67-68 wins but fail to win the title..

[All Net]

Will people considering this a choke? I don't see how..alot of people are saying the Lakers will beat them in the finals if they were to meet...Lakers may well finish with close to the amount of wins as the Cavs but to win 67-68 wins and not win the title? would you see this as a failure even though alot here don't think the Cavs can beat L.A?

[guy]

Will people considering this a choke? I don't see how..alot of people are saying the Lakers will beat them in the finals if they were to meet...Lakers may well finish with close to the amount of wins as the Cavs but to win 67-68 wins and not win the title? would you see this as a failure even though alot here don't think the Cavs can beat L.A?

Not really. They aren't exactly everyone's favorite to win it all. Plus the Lakers probably won't have much less wins, if less at all, then them. If they lose to anyone but the Lakers though, I think it might be a choke.

[Force]

Not at all, they aren't favored to win it all this year. You can only call em chokers if they are up 2-0 or 3-1 and then blow it.

The Lakers are favored to win it all, if they don't win this year, it'll be two years in a row and then people will call them chokers.

[BigTicket]

I'm sure some people will try to paint it as such, but really I think most still have the Lakers as the favorites regardless of record, and the Celtics have about the same chance as the Cavs, they've just dropped a few with Garnett out.

If I were to estimate the chance of winning for various teams at this point it would be something like:

Lakers 40%
Cavs 20%
Celtics 20%
Spurs 10%
Other 10%

[MMM]

Only 2 teams who have won 65 games or more in the regular season have failed to win the title. One being the 1973 Celtics in the ECF in 7 games to the Knicks and the other one being the 2007 Mavs. In the Mavs case it was a choke the Celtics on the other hand lost to a great Knicks team while they were missing Hondo I believe. With the possibility of 4 teams finishing with 60+ wins this season I don't necessarily believe it will be considered a choke if the Cavs or LA lose to the Celtics, Magic or the Spurs. However it depends on the way you lose if they were to lose in the 1st round or get swept in any round that would be considered a choke job.

[Diesel J]

I don't think so unless they make it to the FInals and choke a 3-0 lead away or something like that. Most people think the Lakers are the clear favorites for the the title and that even the Celtics will take the Cavs out.

[Cannonball]

don't make it to ECF=choke

[Kblaze8855]

If they lose in the first 2 rounds....yes. But they arent so far beyond the Celtics its a choke if they lose to them. Gotta consider how teams get the records they do. Celtics went like 7-7 or 7-6 without KG. With him back they are a different team. Teams arent always as good or bad as their record. Losing to last years champs who people for a long time said were actually better this year isnt a choke to me. Losing to anyone but them or LA probably is though. But the Magic arent pushovers either. And I wouldnt assume they crush the Spurs if they meet in the finals...

[KobeRules24]

Will people considering this a choke? I don't see how..alot of people are saying the Lakers will beat them in the finals if they were to meet...Lakers may well finish with close to the amount of wins as the Cavs but to win 67-68 wins and not win the title? would you see this as a failure even though alot here don't think the Cavs can beat L.A?

If they win 67-68 games and still don't win the title with home court advantage in the finals it just proves that the east is not a superior conference like some people suggest. They played more games against teams under .500 than the lakers or spurs did this season (bobcats, nets, knicks, bulls, milwaukee, indiana, toronto, detroit and washington). that's 9 teams under .500 in the east!!! there are 6 teams under .500 in the west, there are only 6 teams over .500 in the east at this moment!!! i say the cavs are overrated, they win more games because they play against inferior competition more often than the lakers, spurs or rockets do for instance. cavs are still a good team but not as good as some people may think...cleveland would had loss more than 1 game at their homecourt if they were playing in the western conference.

[Myth]

It would be considered a choke if they lose to a far inferior team or they blow huge leads such as being up 2-0 in a series or losing a 15+ point lead in an important game. But if they lose a well fought battle against the Celtics or Lakers, then it will not be a considered a choke (except for people that just want to hate on LeBron for any reason).

[KobeRules24]

It would be considered a choke if they lose to a far inferior team or they blow huge leads such as being up 2-0 in a series or losing a 15+ point lead in an important game. But if they lose a well fought battle against the Celtics or Lakers, then it will not be a considered a choke (except for people that just want to hate on LeBron for any reason).

lebron will not win the title

[Fatal9]

:oldlol: at those who think Cavs are getting out of the second round. What in Lebron's recent playoff history suggests that he will show up this time?

Cavs are the best team at beating teams they are supposed to beat (lottery, borderline/low seeded playoff teams), no realistic fan expects them to win against a healthy Magic or Celtics.

[BigTicket]

:oldlol: at those who think Cavs are getting out of the second round. What in Lebron's recent playoff history suggests that he will show up this time?

Cavs are the best team at beating teams they are supposed to beat (lottery, borderline/low seeded playoff teams), no realistic fan expects them to win against a healthy Magic or Celtics.

Um, the Cavs aren't going to be facing the Celtics or Magic in the second round....

[KobeRules24]

:oldlol: at those who think Cavs are getting out of the second round. What in Lebron's recent playoff history suggests that he will show up this time?

Cavs are the best team at beating teams they are supposed to beat (lottery, borderline/low seeded playoff teams), no realistic fan expects them to win against a healthy Magic or Celtics.

Co-sign

[Myth]

lebron will not win the title

Why did you quote me? I never said he would. :confusedshrug:

[All Net]

:oldlol: at those who think Cavs are getting out of the second round. What in Lebron's recent playoff history suggests that he will show up this time?

Cavs are the best team at beating teams they are supposed to beat (lottery, borderline/low seeded playoff teams), no realistic fan expects them to win against a healthy Magic or Celtics.

Hmm so you are saying the Cavs will lose to likely Miami? not happening. Homecourt was why they lost to Boston last year, homecourt is huge in this possible series.

[Cannonball]

:oldlol: at those who think Cavs are getting out of the second round. What in Lebron's recent playoff history suggests that he will show up this time?

Cavs are the best team at beating teams they are supposed to beat (lottery, borderline/low seeded playoff teams), no realistic fan expects them to win against a healthy Magic or Celtics.
you're such a lame ass hater... you just don't tlk lik dis so ppl thnk u R in intilgentz ...


Yeah Cavs were really supposed to beat the ****ing detroit pistons... wow.... ok

[KobeRules24]

Why did you quote me? I never said he would. :confusedshrug:

just in case rudy :oldlol:

[Cannonball]

Co-sign
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

educate yourself.

[Automajic23]

lebron will not win the title

Kobe homers and cavs haters should all be banned from this site if cavs win the chip this year:applause:

[KobeRules24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU

educate yourself.

I'm talking about this season son, not 2 seasons ago. he hasn't showed up against elite competition so far this season, just a great game against the celtics and the other day vs the magic.

[KobeRules24]

Kobe homers and cavs haters should all be banned from this site if cavs win the chip this year:applause:

:roll: :roll: keep dreaming, see you when kobe and the lakers expose lebron in the finals

[NBASTATMAN]

Will people considering this a choke? I don't see how..alot of people are saying the Lakers will beat them in the finals if they were to meet...Lakers may well finish with close to the amount of wins as the Cavs but to win 67-68 wins and not win the title? would you see this as a failure even though alot here don't think the Cavs can beat L.A?


Yea it looks like the Cavs will win alot but will lose at sometime in the playoffs.. Too many wholes in that lineup to win.. The only way they win is if both the lakers and celtics have a major injury. And still I would say utah would give them a run for their money and so will orlando who have a team that matches up really well with the cavs... To me their is no way the cavs win a title.

[NBASTATMAN]

:roll: :roll: keep dreaming, see you when kobe and the lakers expose lebron in the finals

they will not expose them, I think most are saying this even analysts like charles barkley and smith are saying this.. The Cavs are just too small and too slow at every position except for lebron's... No way they win..

[Cannonball]

I'm talking about this season son, not 2 seasons ago. he hasn't showed up against elite competition so far this season, just a great game against the celtics and the other day vs the magic.
regular season :oldlol:

gtfo... i'm not gonna deny he's had some bad games against goods teams... but he's also had some OK games and some GREAT games... it all averages out and the fact that he's won most of them is the main thing...

[rawimpact]

not considered a choke because other teams have been plagued with injury.

[KobeRules24]

Yea it looks like the Cavs will win alot but will lose at sometime in the playoffs.. Too many wholes in that lineup to win.. The only way they win is if both the lakers and celtics have a major injury. And still I would say utah would give them a run for their money and so will orlando who have a team that matches up really well with the cavs... To me their is no way the cavs win a title.

thanks statman, you're one of the most unbiased posters on ISH

[Cannonball]

they will not expose them, I think most are saying this even analysts like charles barkley and smith are saying this.. The Cavs are just too small and too slow at every position except for lebron's... No way they win..
if they do win it's more of a choke for the lakers not being able to stop one guy sometimes 2... and score on much smaller players....

[White Chocolate]

Most people feel the Lakers will win it all, so as long as the Cavs make the Finals, it won't be considered a choke job.

[NBASTATMAN]

Not really. They aren't exactly everyone's favorite to win it all. Plus the Lakers probably won't have much less wins, if less at all, then them. If they lose to anyone but the Lakers though, I think it might be a choke.



them losing to the celtics who have a much better team would not be a choke. Now them losing to anyone besides orlando, celtics or lakers would be a choke.. Those three teams are better than the cavs.

[Cannonball]

them losing to the celtics who have a much better team would not be a choke. Now them losing to anyone besides orlando, celtics or lakers would be a choke.. Those three teams are better than the cavs.
orlando? mm I don't think they will have much if any play off success. I just don't think that team is ready..

[KobeRules24]

regular season :oldlol:

gtfo... i'm not gonna deny he's had some bad games against goods teams... but he's also had some OK games and some GREAT games... it all averages out and the fact that he's won most of them is the main thing...

wrong, he lost 2 games against the lakers, 2 against the celtics, 1 vs rockets, 1 vs orlando and 1 vs the hornets....he played like trash in those games. when he plays really good competition the cavs record is not that good, the lakers have a superb record against elite teams and kobe has better numbers than lebron against the top 6 defensive teams of the league. :applause:

[Cannonball]

wrong, he lost 2 games against the lakers, 2 against the celtics, 1 vs rockets, 1 vs orlando and 1 vs the hornets....he played like trash in those games. when he plays really good competition the cavs record is not that good, the lakers have a superb record against elite teams and kobe has better numbers than lebron against the top 6 defensive teams of the league. :applause:
I'm sure he does.. it's easier to score when you have team mates that help with that... gasol helps. odom helps.. they are a better team... plus teams like the rox celts orlando are much harder on a team like lebron because the cavs whole offense is based upon lebrons ability to get into the paint.. and if he can't do that they are screwed. and if guys don't hit shots to spread the floor he's not going to be able to get in.

the two loses to the lakers they didn't have z or he just came back... or something was iffy... rox just shut lebron down... artest and battie where just way to much... i don't really remember the hornets or the loss to orlando.. but regardless what does it matter I would rather cavs lose to good teams than bad teams... losing to bad teams is choking and bad leadership.. if you get beat by a team better than you and you did your all what are you gonna do?

[Automajic23]

wrong, he lost 2 games against the lakers, 2 against the celtics, 1 vs rockets, 1 vs orlando and 1 vs the hornets....he played like trash in those games. when he plays really good competition the cavs record is not that good, the lakers have a superb record against elite teams and kobe has better numbers than lebron against the top 6 defensive teams of the league. :applause:

In the last 4-5 seasons, the cavs are actually winning the headsup count against the lakers, look it up. If your excuse is Kobes cast was horrid 2 years ago, well so was Brons. :confusedshrug:

and I like how you admit to being a kobe homer :applause: :applause: :applause:

[KobeRules24]

I'm sure he does.. it's easier to score when you have team mates that help with that... gasol helps. odom helps.. they are a better team... plus teams like the rox celts orlando are much harder on a team like lebron because the cavs whole offense is based upon lebrons ability to get into the paint.. and if he can't do that they are screwed. and if guys don't hit shots to spread the floor he's not going to be able to get in.

the two loses to the lakers they didn't have z or he just came back... or something was iffy... rox just shut lebron down... artest and battie where just way to much... i don't really remember the hornets or the loss to orlando.. but regardless what does it matter I would rather cavs lose to good teams than bad teams...losing to bad teams is choking and bad leadership.. if you get beat by a team better than you and you did your all what are you gonna do?

So you want the cavs to beat crappy teams instead of elite ones? that's stupid lol he's isn't playing the bobcats or knicks in the playoffs dude, he's gonna have to beat great teams to win the title and even you (a cavs fan) know that's unlikely.wrong again, every team losses to bad teams it just happens it's a long season it has nothing to do with bad leadership and choking don't be a moron.

[KobeRules24]

In the last 4-5 seasons, the cavs are actually winning the headsup count against the lakers, look it up. If your excuse is Kobes cast was horrid 2 years ago, well so was Brons. :confusedshrug:

and I like how you admit to being a kobe homer :applause: :applause: :applause:

i don't give excuses like you, i'm talking about this season. you need to go back a few seasons to try to make a point. you=fail again.

[Automajic23]

i don't give excuses like you, i'm talking about this season. you need to go back a few seasons to try to make a point. you=fail again.

2 games is a small sample size, to say the lakers OWN the cavs this year because they are 2-0 against them is nothing less than silly. That's just like how the bobcats OWN the lakers, it's absolutely silly to think the bobcats would beat the lakers in the playoffs yes?

And yeah I can tell you don't give excuses in all of your posts, it's because you don't have any criteria to base your statements upon. You come up with answers from your mouth as fast as you fart out your @ss

[KobeRules24]

2 games is a small sample size, to say the lakers OWN the cavs this year because they are 2-0 against them is nothing less than silly. That's just like how the bobcats OWN the lakers, it's absolutely silly to think the bobcats would beat the lakers in the playoffs yes?

It's not the same, bobcats are a cr@ppy team the lakers are elite. if the cavs are so great they are suppose to beat elite teams consistently and they havent prove that this season. look at their schedule, they are great beating bad, lottery bound teams but when they play great teams who play some defense they choke. they've no chance of winning the title, maybe next year...they need more help

[NBASTATMAN]

wrong, he lost 2 games against the lakers, 2 against the celtics, 1 vs rockets, 1 vs orlando and 1 vs the hornets....he played like trash in those games. when he plays really good competition the cavs record is not that good, the lakers have a superb record against elite teams and kobe has better numbers than lebron against the top 6 defensive teams of the league. :applause:



Those really good teams load up on lebron and let his teammates beat them.. That is what the Celtics did to kobe last year and it worked... It will work vs any player in the game... The Cavs just don't have the talent the lakers, orlando or celtics and will have problems with any of those teams...

[KobeRules24]

Those really good teams load up on lebron and let his teammates beat them.. That is what the Celtics did to kobe last year and it worked... It will work vs any player in the game... The Cavs just don't have the talent the lakers, orlando or celtics and will have problems with any of those teams...

thanks again statman, take notes Automajic23 :oldlol:

[DukeDelonte13]

I love all the trash talk going on saying how the cavs aren't elite. Which team has the best record in the NBA as of now?

[Fatal9]

you're such a lame ass hater... you just don't tlk lik dis so ppl thnk u R in intilgentz ...


Yeah Cavs were really supposed to beat the ****ing detroit pistons... wow.... ok

Stats are haters too I guess.

Cavs record vs. the next 4 best records in the league (outside of Spurs as TD and Ginobili were injured): 3-6 :oldlol:

Lakers are 9-3 against the next best teams (Cavs, Celtics, Spurs, Houston, Magic).

Like I said, Cavs take care of business against teams they SHOULD win against. The elite teams though have developed a gameplan to embarrass Lebron (big guys shade over to clog the lane) and shut down the Cavs. Cavs have done nothing except beat up on average teams all season. Unless Lebron finally gets his act together in the playoffs this year, they won't make the finals.

[KobeRules24]

I love all the trash talk going on saying how the cavs aren't elite. Which team has the best record in the NBA as of now?

who said they aren't elite homer? i pointed out the truth, they can't beat great teams/good defensive teams consistently. they play bad teams a bunch of times, 9 teams under .500 in the east, only 6 over .500!!!! they are a good team but clearly overrated.

[DukeDelonte13]

Stats are haters too I guess.

Cavs record vs. the next 4 best records in the league (outside of Spurs as TD and Ginobili were injured): 3-6 :oldlol:

Lakers are 9-3 against the next best teams (Cavs, Celtics, Spurs, Houston, Magic).

Like I said, Cavs take care of business against teams they SHOULD win against. The elite teams though have developed a gameplan to embarrass Lebron (big guys shade over to clog the lane) and shut down the Cavs. Cavs have done nothing except beat up on average teams all season. Unless Lebron finally gets his act together in the playoffs this year, they won't make the finals.

So When we played all the good teams with our starters out it shouldn't matter? :confusedshrug:

[Automajic23]

It's not the same, bobcats are a cr@ppy team the lakers are elite. if the cavs are so great they are suppose to beat elite teams consistently and they havent prove that this season. look at their schedule, they are great beating bad, lottery bound teams but when they play great teams who play some defense they choke. they've no chance of winning the title, maybe next year...they need more help

So what you are saying is that it's okay for an elite team like the lakers to give up games to the bobcats? True I have seen the cavs lose some of their big games which consists of the bulk of their losses for the season, but it is the regular season, and losses to elite teams show you that you were not prepared for the matchup, and the other team was. Losing games to bad teams though, well that makes no sense at all to me.

On another note, maybe no one else is seeing this, but often times lebron was deferring to his team mates during crunch time this year, and everyone complained for him not taking over, and being passive/scared. I think lebrons been trying to prepare his cavs the best he can for the post season, because he knows a lot of teams will be focusing on shutting him down; it is indeed the only way to keep the cavs from winning. I expect the cavs to be fully prepared for what the elite teams are cooking up against lebron come playoff time. I'm not 100% sure the cavs will win a chip, but i 100% HOPE they do.

And I'm in no way saying the Cavs supporting cast is superior to Kobes Lakers, Big 3s Celtics, or even Dwights Magic in anyway. What matters is who does what in those 7 games during post season

[c_az_a]

Not at all, they aren't favored to win it all this year. You can only call em chokers if they are up 2-0 or 3-1 and then blow it.

The Lakers are favored to win it all, if they don't win this year, it'll be two years in a row and then people will call them chokers.

Which will be definitive of the career, the hype, Kobe Bryant.

[DukeDelonte13]

who said they aren't elite homer? i pointed out the truth, they can't beat great teams/good defensive teams consistently. they play bad teams a bunch of times, 9 teams under .500 in the east, only 6 over .500!!!! they are a good team but clearly overrated.


Calling the team with the best record in the NBA "clearly overrated" is a pretty homerific statement.

[KobeRules24]

Which will be definitive of the career, the hype, Kobe Bryant.

i guess that being a top 20 player of all time is all hype :oldlol:

[NY Comeback]

It all depends on how the Cavs get eliminated(If they do at all). If it's a hard fought 7 Game series, you obviously can't say they choked. If by some chance they happen to get swept in the finals or ECF...you'd still have to look at how close the games were, what LeBron averaged before calling it a choke.

[Automajic23]

Like I said, Cavs take care of business against teams they SHOULD win against. The elite teams though have developed a gameplan to embarrass Lebron (big guys shade over to clog the lane) and shut down the Cavs. Cavs have done nothing except beat up on average teams all season. Unless Lebron finally gets his act together in the playoffs this year, they won't make the finals.

I wouldn't base everything off lebron playing exponential in the post season to get to the finals alone. Remember, Cavs have been struggling all season with injuries and such to multiple key players.
Delonte has been marginal since his recovery, pavlovic is still searching for his game, and Mo has been struggling every other game. The only team the Cavs are losing to right now are themselves; barring the winning streak.

If the Cavs can stomach their big games and click just like they do majority of the time they will be fine. Just like how the other ELITES who have beaten them mysteriously give up games to worse teams, makes no sense but they will need to plug their leaks as well.

[KobeRules24]

Calling the team with the best record in the NBA "clearly overrated" is a pretty homerific statement.

i base my opinions on facts....look at the stats:

Cavs record vs. the next 4 best records in the league (outside of Spurs as TD and Ginobili were injured): 3-6

Lakers are 9-3 against the next best teams (Cavs, Celtics, Spurs, Houston, Magic).

The cavs beat us the crappy teams but dont show up when they play great teams, they are overrated son. give me stats that support your opinion that they are the best team in the league.

[DukeDelonte13]

i base my opinions on facts....look at the stats:

Cavs record vs. the next 4 best records in the league (outside of Spurs as TD and Ginobili were injured): 3-6

Lakers are 9-3 against the next best teams (Cavs, Celtics, Spurs, Houston, Magic).

The cavs beat us the crappy teams but dont show up when they play great teams, they are overrated son. give me stats that support your opinion that they are the best team in the league.


how bout the 57-13 record THE ONLY STAT THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS. In the end of the season what matters is your record, not which teams you beat up on and which teams beat up on you.

[KobeRules24]

how bout the 57-13 record THE ONLY STAT THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS. In the end of the season what matters is your record, not which teams you beat up on and which teams beat up on you.

Cavs are not playing the knicks, bobcats, bucks, or raptors in the postseason. they will have to beat great teams, good luck lmao

[Automajic23]

i base my opinions on facts....look at the stats:

Cavs record vs. the next 4 best records in the league (outside of Spurs as TD and Ginobili were injured): 3-6

Lakers are 9-3 against the next best teams (Cavs, Celtics, Spurs, Houston, Magic).

The cavs beat us the crappy teams but dont show up when they play great teams, they are overrated son. give me stats that support your opinion that they are the best team in the league.

Cavs don't necessarily "NOT SHOW UP" just because they lose to elite teams, it's because their game plan is set up to win as many games as possible during the regular season. Obviously it shows they lost very FEW game to the elite teams, but things like that are to be prepped for in the playoffs. Having a winning game plan vs one elite team does not constitute having a game plan vs another. The Cavs are not going to beat the magic the same way they beat the knicks.
Based on how the cavs use lebron to set up everyone else on the team, it's worked a high % of the time. Just like the elites are smart enough to thwart this strategy, you can't expect the cavs are stupid enough to stay with it come playoffs. Coach Brown has to be working on a solution for denying james entry to the lane to create strategy employed by many teams.

I would never expect playoff intensity to be = reg season intensity. So I expect the Cavs to have answers for how the other elites have delivered the FEW losses the Cavs have. At the same time I expect the other ELITEs to have answers ir/when their current winning gameplan fails


UNLIKE KOBE HOMERS and OTHER D*CKRIDERS I have logic as to how the cavs can and will get to this chip, and I understand fully that they are not invincible and are obviously underrated because of a FEW shortcomings from teams with the same if not MORE shortcomings from worse teams

[TheGreatDeraj]

I hope to God that the Cavs don't lose to anyone before the finals in less than 7 games. Not because I like them, or enjoy watching them play, but because I like ISH. And we all know the insane amount of LeBron hate threads would be created if he lost before the finals and didn't take the series to 7 games. Then their would be the defending Lebron threads. Then their would be Kobe>Lebron, then Wade>Lebron, and so on for the entire offseason making ISH a hellhole of unreadable trolls and bullshit

but to actually answer the question...no I don't think it would be considered a choke. The 3 contenders are all pretty evenly matched so it won't be a choke for any team whether it be the Lakers/Cavs/Celtics who win/lose.

[DukeDelonte13]

Cavs are not playing the knicks, bobcats, bucks, or raptors in the postseason. they will have to beat great teams, good luck lmao


Yeah i guess the cavs are just going to have to struggle and pull through :lol

Lakers are more likely to get knocked out early IMO.

[cdbleb]

You make no sense, you start a thread talking about the Cavs possibility of being chokers depending on whether or not they win a title and then you make it completely obvious that your only agenda is to make the Lakers look better than the Cavs by belittling the East. Your Lakers are 5-5 against the Eastern playoff teams outside of the Cavs and Celtics.

Its time to get back to reality though, the playoffs are a totally different game. Theres 3 teams this season who are by far favorites to win it all (LA, Cle, and Boston)...The only way one of those teams could be chokers is if A - they get swept in any round, B - Theyre up by 2+ games in a series and lose that series, or C - if they go out in the first 2 rounds.

EDIT: My bad, I misread the first page and I thought Koberules24 started the thread...He was just the guy who turned it into a Lakers debate when it was clearly started questioning the Cavs.

[KobeRules24]

Yeah i guess the cavs are just going to have to struggle and pull through :lol

Lakers are more likely to get knocked out early IMO.

Thanks for admitting it, the western conference is tougher.

[Automajic23]

Yeah i guess the cavs are just going to have to struggle and pull through :lol

Lakers are more likely to get knocked out early IMO.

I actually believe the lakers, celts, magic can get knocked out earlier since for SOME REASON they seem to F*ck up against the much lesser teams.
By KobeRules24 Logic, the Cavs only mess up against the elites, so I expect to see them guaranteed in the finals/chip, and the other elites to only have a 60% chance of getting to the finals/chip.

[KobeRules24]

Cavs don't necessarily "NOT SHOW UP" just because they lose to elite teams, it's because their game plan is set up to win as many games as possible during the regular season. Obviously it shows they lost very FEW game to the elite teams, but things like that are to be prepped for in the playoffs. Having a winning game plan vs one elite team does not constitute having a game plan vs another. The Cavs are not going to beat the magic the same way they beat the knicks.
Based on how the cavs use lebron to set up everyone else on the team, it's worked a high % of the time. Just like the elites are smart enough to thwart this strategy, you can't expect the cavs are stupid enough to stay with it come playoffs. Coach Brown has to be working on a solution for denying james entry to the lane to create strategy employed by many teams.

I would never expect playoff intensity to be = reg season intensity. So I expect the Cavs to have answers for how the other elites have delivered the FEW losses the Cavs have. At the same time I expect the other ELITEs to have answers ir/when their current winning gameplan fails


UNLIKE KOBE HOMERS and OTHER D*CKRIDERS I have logic as to how the cavs can and will get to this chip, and I understand fully that they are not invincible and are obviously underrated because of a FEW shortcomings from teams with the same if not MORE shortcomings from worse teams

dumbest reply of the day

[c_az_a]

i guess that being a top 20 player of all time is all hype :oldlol:

Based on his NBA finals performance, he's overrated if you consider him a top 20 player of all time. That's what hype does. You can choke on the big stage but still be labeled "best basketball player in the league." Without the hype, Kobe is who the hater thought he was. Does a top 20 player of all time with one of the best teams in the NBA (remember, he won MVP because his team had one of the best records) allow his team to lose by 39 pts in a pivotal elimination game (when LeBron scored 40+ against the same Celts team in a game seven the round before)? If you hype someone to be the best, you better perform better in the same type of situation than your peers (LeBron). Of course, LeBron series numbers weren't spectacular against the Celts. At least he gave us a performance in that game seven that we never seen with Kobe in the finals (except for the minority of games). Did Kobe bail the Lakers out in game six? Losing by 39 pts with the best player in the league with one of the best teams suggest that hype > outcome (talk: he's the best player in the league > result: he's not even the best player in the finals series). Which is the career of Kobe Bryant. LeBron brought his A game in the last game of the conference finals. Kobe Bryant brought his hype in the final game of the NBA finals. At the end of the game, Kobe still gets a nod above LeBron based on hype.

[thejumpa]

Ha, this guy KobeRules24 is a clown.......the 57-13 cavs are overrated? What are they currently rated at now? #1 right? winning streaks, Lebron, and the best record in the league will do that....Lakers are right there with them

Any team that has only lost 13 games through 70 games is clearly not overrated. Like everyone said, they aren't exactly peoples' favorite to win it all, but they sure as hell could. I mean ****, you do know that playoff basketball intensity is a whole lot different than regular season right? Who's to say the Jazz, Spurs, Hornets, or Rockets can't knock off LA?

LA is my second home but I can't stand some of the fans there....Its Kobe 24/7 on their mind.....I really hope Lebron meets LA in the finals if they get there and beat LA......the excuses would be flying...

[DukeDelonte13]

Thanks for admitting it, the western conference is tougher.


Must be tough playing the clips 4x, Kings 4x, and Warriors 4x :oldlol: :roll:

[KobeRules24]

Based on his NBA finals performance, he's overrated if you consider him a top 20 player of all time. That's what hype does. You can choke on the big stage but still be labeled "best basketball player in the league." Without the hype, Kobe is who the hater thought he was. Does a top 20 player of all time with one of the best teams in the NBA (remember, he won MVP because his team had one of the best records) allow his team to lose by 39 pts in a pivotal one and done game (when LeBron scored 40+ against the Celts in a game seven)?

Kobe actually played better than lebron against the Celtics last season in the playoffs. lebron: 35fg% and it wouldn't had been worst if not for the game 7 performance. kobe has done enough in his career already to be a top 20 player of all time, only haters like you would say otherwise.

[cdbleb]

Kobe actually played better than lebron against the Celtics last season in the playoffs. lebron: 35fg% and it wouldn't had been worst if not for the game 7 performance. kobe has done enough in his career already to be a top 20 player of all time, only haters like you would say otherwise.

Notice the bold text

[OldSchoolBBall]

If they lose to a team other than Boston or LA (or possibly SA depending on how well they're playing going into and in the playoffs), it can be said that they underachieved.

[KobeRules24]

Must be tough playing the clips 4x, Kings 4x, and Warriors 4x :oldlol: :roll:

must be tough playing the bucks, pacers, bobcats, knicks, raptors, bulls, wizards and new jersey 3 or 4 times a year while also playing the warriors, thunder, kings and clippers 2 times a year....:roll: :roll: :roll: they get the best of 2 worlds

[KobeRules24]

Notice the bold text

lebron has choked against good defensive teams this season, what's your point? i know who you are, you made a video (youtube) hating on kobe right after he scored 61 on MSG :oldlol: another hater exposed

[Mikaiel]

must be tough playing the bucks, pacers, bobcats, knicks, raptors, bulls, wizards and new jersey 3 or 4 times a year while also playing the warriors, thunder, kings and clippers 2 times a year....:roll: :roll: :roll: they get the best of 2 worlds

The Cavs have the best winning percentage against Western Conference teams in the whole league.

[KobeRules24]

The Cavs have the best winning percentage against Western Conference teams in the whole league.

yep they also have a stellar 3-6 record against the top defensive teams of the league.

[DukeDelonte13]

must be tough playing the bucks, pacers, bobcats, knicks, raptors, bulls, wizards and new jersey 3 or 4 times a year while also playing the warriors, thunder, kings and clippers 2 times a year....:roll: :roll: :roll: they get the best of 2 worlds


Its funny cause the lakers lost to many of those teams :lol

But seriously your just an idiot if you discredit the cavs success based on their conference. Besides, i think the east is still beating the west in interconference play and the cavs have the best schedule against the west. Just hop off Kobe's d**k and admit that the Cavs are elite this year.

[cdbleb]

lebron has choked against good defensive teams this season, what's your point? i know who you are, you made a video (youtube) hating on kobe right after he scored 61 on MSG :oldlol: another hater exposed


Knowing who I am means nothing, yes I hate Kobe and I openly admit it...However you , KobeNPau (Looks like we arent as hidden as believed), have yet to admit you hate on LeBron but I exposed you there too...Proof anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=4CrNRkyU9U0&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3D4CrNRkyU9U0

This dude is KobeNPau, I am cdbleb3

Like I said multiple times I dont like Kobe...I admit it!

[KobeRules24]

Its funny cause the lakers lost to many of those teams :lol

But seriously your just an idiot if you discredit the cavs success based on their conference. Besides, i think the east is still beating the west in interconference play and the cavs have the best schedule against the west. Just hop off Kobe's d**k and admit that the Cavs are elite this year.

who said they weren't elite, i'm just saying the lakers are better... wouldn't you agree? ohh wait you're just a blind fan

[KobeRules24]

Knowing who I am means nothing, yes I hate Kobe and I openly admit it...However you , KobeNPau (Looks like we arent as hidden as believed), have yet to admit you hate on LeBron but I exposed you there too...Proof anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=4CrNRkyU9U0&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3D4CrNRkyU9U0

This dude is KobeNPau, I am cdbleb3

Like I said multiple times I dont like Kobe...I admit it!

LMAO pathetic hater :(

[gotbacon23]

who said they aren't elite homer? i pointed out the truth, they can't beat great teams/good defensive teams consistently. they play bad teams a bunch of times, 9 teams under .500 in the east, only 6 over .500!!!! they are a good team but clearly overrated.

sorry, but i HATE this arguement that a team has an inflated record because they play in a weaker conference. fact is, 58 out of 82 games are common for every team (29 other teams, 1 at home, 1 on the road against every other team). that leaves only 24 games that are un-common (so if the bulls play the bucks 4 times, 2 of those times are un-common, as everyone at least plays the bucks 2 times). this years 24 "un-common games" for the lakers:

away: denver, gs, houston, clippers, memphis, minnesota, new orleans, ok city, phoenix, portland, sac, san antonio

home: dallas, denver, gs, houston, la clippers, memphis, minnesota, new orleans, phoenix, portland, sacramento, utah

combined record so far of those teams in 24-uncommon games for the lakers: 778-917 (.459)

this years 24 "un-common cavs games"

away: atlanta, boston, chicago, detriot, indiana, miami, milwaukee, new jersey, ny knicks, orlando, phildelphia, wahsington
home: atlanta, boston, toronto, philly, ny, milwaukee, miami, indiana, detriot, chicago, charlotte, washington

combined record so far of those teams in 24-uncommon games for the cavs: 822-874 (.485)

so actually the cavs schedule is harder overall than the lakers (based on all 82 games with today's records). sure, the cavs get to play the wizards, pacers, knicks, and bucks two more times than the lakers get to, but the lakers gett to play the kings, clippers, grizzlies, timberwolves two more times than the cavs get to. in the long run, its basically even anway as 58/82 games are the same.

i'm not saying the cavs are better or anything like that, but saying a team has a better record because they play in a different conference is weak. this isn't the NFL or MLB where a huge majority of your games are within your conference or league.

[KobeRules24]

I love lebron :oldlol: i love the guy, im not a pathetic hater/bruce blitz dickrider like you. I dont make videos hating on lebron, i dont bash him every chance i get like you do with kobe, i dont need to start threads hating on lebron like you do with kobe etc... :oldlol: try again hater

[DukeDelonte13]

who said they weren't elite, i'm just saying the lakers are better... wouldn't you agree? ohh wait you're just a blind fan


and your not? C'mon this is ISH. Its a place were fans meet and post their opinions on why their team is better, no matter how stupid and illogical those reasons are.

For example: the cavs are overrated cause they have an easier schedule :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

The Cavs are actually 6-5 against the other five best defensive teams in the league (according to the numbers).

Boston
L 90-85
W 98-83
L 105-94

San Antonio
W 97-86

New Orleans
L 104-92
W 92-78

Houston
W 99-90
L 93-74

Detroit
L 96-89
W 90-80
W 99-78

Do you just make up random numbers that you pull out of your @ss? Aren't there enough Kobe threads to occupy your attention on this board?

[KobeRules24]

and your not? C'mon this is ISH. Its a place were fans meet and post their opinions on why their team is better, no matter how stupid and illogical those reasons are.

For example: the cavs are overrated cause they have an easier schedule :oldlol:

true statement

[KobeRules24]

The Cavs are actually 6-5 against the other five best defensive teams in the league (according to the numbers).

Boston
L 90-85
W 98-83
L 105-94

San Antonio
W 97-86

New Orleans
L 104-92
W 92-78

Houston
W 99-90
L 93-74

Detroit
L 96-89
W 90-80
W 99-78

Do you just make up random numbers that you pull out of your @ss? Aren't there enough Kobe threads to occupy your attention on this board?

no :confusedshrug:

[RedBlackAttack]

no :confusedshrug:
Yes... idiot.

[gotbacon23]

true statement

if true you mean the cavs' opponents winning perccentage is .501, where the lakers is .497, then yeah. once again, most games played by every team in the league are the same, thats why every team's opponents winning percentages drifts around .500. strength of schedule in the nba is such an incredibly weak arguement. the cavs DON'T have an easier schedule. its not necessarily harder either, its about the same.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi?season=2009&sortColumn=sos

[KobeRules24]

Yes... idiot.

Lakers beated the cr@p out of the lebron this season...i made that up too :oldlol:

[KobeRules24]

if true you mean the cavs' opponents winning perccentage is .501, where the lakers is .497, then yeah. once again, most games played by every team in the league are the same, thats why every team's opponents winning percentages drifts around .500. strength of schedule in the nba is such an incredibly weak arguement. the cavs DON'T have an easier schedule. its not necessarily harder either, its about the same.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi?season=2009&sortColumn=sos

So you think the cavs are better than the lakers? nice talking to you

[RedBlackAttack]

Lakers beated the cr@p out of the lebron this season...i made that up too :oldlol:
What does that have to do with your post about the Cavs being 3-6 against the best defensive teams in the league being factually inaccurate? While the Lakers may have 'beated' the Cavs twice this year, it doesn't make you any less of an idiot.

[cdbleb]

I love lebron :oldlol: i love the guy, im not a pathetic hater/bruce blitz dickrider like you. I dont make videos hating on lebron, i dont bash him every chance i get like you do with kobe, i dont need to start threads hating on lebron like you do with kobe etc... :oldlol: try again hater

KobeNPau (30 minutes ago)
now im gonna make a thread about kobe passing lebrick on 3pt%

KobeNPau (34 minutes ago)
lebron=WOAT jumpshooter

KobeNPau (47 minutes ago)
**** cleveland they keep winning close games, these *******s!!!!

Thats all directly from you...Its not considered trying when you make it so easy.

[KobeRules24]

What does that have to do with your post about the Cavs being 3-6 against the best defensive teams in the league being factually inaccurate? While the Lakers may have 'beated' the Cavs twice this year, it doesn't make you any less of an idiot.

:applause: ok bruce lee whatever you say.

[gotbacon23]

So you think the cavs are better than the lakers? nice talking to you

did i say that? my whole point was saying that a team is better or worse because of "schedule strength" is complete and utter-b.s. because most teams schedule strength in the entire league is about the same. the cavs and lakers have very similiar schedule strengths and very similiar records. that is a fact. i never made an assessment on which team is better.

[Mikaiel]

Cavs record against the 5 best defensive teams in the league according to defensive ratings :

Boston : 1-2
Orlando : 1-1
San Antonio : 1-0
Houston : 1-1

Total : 4-4 (3 home games, 5 away games)

Cleveland is the other one in top 5, if you count No.6 (the Lakers), they're 4-6.

[KobeRules24]

KobeNPau (30 minutes ago)
now im gonna make a thread about kobe passing lebrick on 3pt%

KobeNPau (34 minutes ago)
lebron=WOAT jumpshooter

KobeNPau (47 minutes ago)
**** cleveland they keep winning close games, these *******s!!!!

Thats all directly from you...Its not considered trying when you make it so easy.

Yep, i can go and find a lot of posts of you hating on kobe. it's easy to take random posts and take them out of context to make me look like a hater but it's funny 'cause you dont include the ones when i praise lebron....

KobeNPau (36 minutes ago)
lebron=greatest athlete of all time

KobeNPau (31 minutes ago)
Man lebron is playing out of his mind right now!!! this guy is great!!!

KobeNPau (38 minutes ago)
This Cleveland team would be nothing without lebron

why dont you accept that not everyone is a pathetic hater like you? unlike you i enjoy great players intead of hating them. thanks for playing :applause:

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs record against the 5 best defensive teams in the league according to defensive ratings :

Boston : 1-2
Orlando : 1-1
San Antonio : 1-0
Houston : 1-1

Total : 4-4

Cleveland is the other one in top 5, if you count No.6 (the Lakers), they're 4-6.
If you use points against as a gauge, the other Top 5 teams are Boston, SA, NO, Houston, and Detroit. The Lakers are 17th on that list. Either way, it is pretty clear that this person is full of sh!t.

[Tuvi]

If the cavs don't make it past the 2nd round it's considered a choke

[KobeRules24]

If you use points against as a gauge, the other Top 5 teams are Boston, SA, NO, Houston, and Detroit. The Lakers are 17th on that list. Either way, it is pretty clear that this person is full of sh!t.

So the cavs are 4-6 against the top 6 defensive rated teams of the league. OMG my bad i said they were 3-6, that's a great improvement they are 4-6!!!! wow congratulations :applause: you're the only one that's completely full of **** here.

[Mikaiel]

If you use points against as a gauge, the other Top 5 teams are Boston, SA, NO, Houston, and Detroit. The Lakers are 17th on that list. Either way, it is pretty clear that this person is full of sh!t.

Point allowed per game is a deceiving stat, it doesn't account for pace. The Lakers are a high pace team so of course they allow more points.

Maybe his definition of defensive teams were best opposing team FG% ?

Boston : 1-2
Orlando : 1-1
Denver : 2-0
Houston : 1-1
Hornets : 1-1

Total : 6-5.

Well, guess not. Yeah, he's full of sh!t :oldlol:

[Mikaiel]

So the cavs are 4-6 against the top 5 defensive teams of the league. OMG my bad i said they were 3-6, that's a great improvement they are 4-6!!!! wow congratulations :applause: you're the only one that's completely full of **** here.

4-6 with 2 home games and 1 away game left to play against those teams. And with the way we've been playing at home, we could very well be 7-6 or 6-7 at the end of the season. Playing .500 ball against the other elite teams in the league is nothing to be ashamed of.

[RedBlackAttack]

So the cavs are 4-6 against the top 6 defensive rated teams of the league. OMG my bad i said they were 3-6, that's a great improvement they are 4-6!!!! wow congratulations :applause: you're the only one that's completely full of **** here.
Too bad you needed a fellow Cavalier fan to come in this thread and make your argument for you, being that you are incapable of intellectual discussion. Either way, your numbers were wrong.

...and, yes... When you are talking about a sample size of just 10 games, one win does make for a 'great improvement.'

[Al Thornton]

:oldlol: at those who think Cavs are getting out of the second round. What in Lebron's recent playoff history suggests that he will show up this time?

Cavs are the best team at beating teams they are supposed to beat (lottery, borderline/low seeded playoff teams), no realistic fan expects them to win against a healthy Magic or Celtics.

Agreed.

[KobeRules24]

Too bad you needed a fellow Cavalier fan to come in this thread and make your argument for you, being that you are incapable of intellectual discussion. Either way, your numbers were wrong.

...and, yes... When you are talking about a sample size of just 10 games, one win does make for a 'great improvement.'

They are still under .500 against great teams, you fail again. good luck beating the celtics or lakers in a 7 game series.:(

[Meticode]

Will people considering this a choke? I don't see how..alot of people are saying the Lakers will beat them in the finals if they were to meet...Lakers may well finish with close to the amount of wins as the Cavs but to win 67-68 wins and not win the title? would you see this as a failure even though alot here don't think the Cavs can beat L.A?

If people dislike the Cavaliers or dislike LeBron James they will say it's a choke. These are probably the same people who laughed at people saying they were going to be a 60+ winning team at the beginning of the season.

[t-rex]

Only 2 teams who have won 65 games or more in the regular season have failed to win the title. One being the 1973 Celtics in the ECF in 7 games to the Knicks and the other one being the 2007 Mavs. In the Mavs case it was a choke the Celtics on the other hand lost to a great Knicks team while they were missing Hondo I believe. With the possibility of 4 teams finishing with 60+ wins this season I don't necessarily believe it will be considered a choke if the Cavs or LA lose to the Celtics, Magic or the Spurs. However it depends on the way you lose if they were to lose in the 1st round or get swept in any round that would be considered a choke job.


Good Post!

I agree 100%

A lot of people forget Havlicek injured his shoulder during the Eastern Conference Final. We will never know, but it is widely believed that the Celtics probably would have won the NBA title that year if "Hondo" had been available.

It makes what happened to the Mavericks even more incredible. And it really shines a bad light on Dirk Norwitzki. Especially considering that unlike the 1973 Knicks, the Mavericks lost to a great player (Wade) but hardly a great team (2005 Heat).

I think this year could be an exception to the "67-68 regular season win stat."

Despite the potential impressive Cavs win total, I don't think it's a choke job if they lose to the Celtics or Lakers and failed to win a title.

In fact I think they will lose the Celtics in the ECF. But it still has to be considered a successful season for them.




http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/gallery.nba.top10.game.fives/images/01.1976.celtics.havlicek.jpg

There would probably be 18 Championshp banners in Boston if "Hondo" had been healthy for the 1973 Eastern Conference finals





http://futureramblings.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dirk_nowitzki_goes_up_for_the_dunk_210503.jpg

Was Nowitzki on the wrong side of one of the greatest upset in NBA Finals history?







:D

[Fatal9]

The Cavs are actually 6-5 against the other five best defensive teams in the league (according to the numbers).

Boston
L 90-85
W 98-83
L 105-94

San Antonio
W 97-86

New Orleans
L 104-92
W 92-78

Houston
W 99-90
L 93-74

Detroit
L 96-89
W 90-80
W 99-78

Do you just make up random numbers that you pull out of your @ss? Aren't there enough Kobe threads to occupy your attention on this board?
LOL at a sub .500 Detroit team, Spurs without Duncan/Ginobili being used to beef up the record.

They are 3-6 against the Lakers, Celtics, Rockets and Magic; the four teams with the best record outside of Cavs. If you want to include the petty win against the Spurs, fine, they are 4-6 which is still pretty miserable for a championship or bust type of team. It's a shame they face a series of lottery bound teams (in the west) for the first two rounds, which really shows making the ECF isn't much of an accomplishment at all.

[lilgodfather1]

LOL at a sub .500 Detroit team, Spurs without Duncan/Ginobili being used to beef up the record.

They are 3-6 against the Lakers, Celtics, Rockets and Magic; the four teams with the best record outside of Cavs. If you want to include the petty win against the Spurs, fine, they are 4-6 which is still pretty miserable for a championship or bust type of team. It's a shame they face a series of lottery bound teams (in the west) for the first two rounds, which really shows making the ECF isn't much of an accomplishment at all.
Oh so now you are changing the criteria? So it went from best defensive to best? Wow you Kobe fans are stupid. Guess what the Lakers have a worse record than the Cavs.:roll: I bet that just rubs the sand all through your ****** wrong doesn't it?

[KobeRules24]

Oh so now you are changing the criteria? So it went from best defensive to best? Wow you Kobe fans are stupid. Guess what the Lakers have a worse record than the Cavs.:roll: I bet that just rubs the sand all through your ****** wrong doesn't it?

no, it doesn't. lakers are a better team and that is easy to prove, better record against the best teams. The cavs hopes for a title will be broken, they're not good enough to compete with the lakers.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

In my opinion

Lakers 25%
Cavs 25%
Celtics 20%
Spurs 18%
Magic 10%
Everyone else 2%

[lilgodfather1]

no, it doesn't. lakers are a better team and that is easy to prove, better record against the best teams. The cavs hopes for a title will be broken, they're not good enough to compete with the lakers.
There is no guarantee that the Lakers or Cavs make the finals. If James gets hurt then the Cavs will not, and if Pau gets hurt then the Lakers will not either. Just hope for good health and hope that your team can beat the Cavs. Because there is not guarantee.

And I can prove that the cavs are a better team. Who has more wins?

[wang4three]

If they lose to the Lakers they're covered. They loss to them twice this season already, can't really imagine people blaming them for losing against the only team that's beaten them at home.

[Godfather]

If they lose to the Lakers they're covered. They loss to them twice this season already, can't really imagine people blaming them for losing against the only team that's beaten them at home.

Not to mention this team has overachieved like no other...

[stmartin]

Guys, don't feed this kobe24(9000 with the same name) troll. As I've observed the thread it seems he nitpicks at what he replies to as many people continously prove him wrong. And when he openly amits to being wrong he comes back with some sly 3rd grade remark.

[joma11]

dirk and cuban will be the happiest men if cavs finish 67 wins but fail to advance 2nd round of playoff.

[Soundwave]

No I don't think I'd qualify it as a choke.

Fact is, LeBron still does not have a defacto no.2 option. I would say both Gasol and Odom and any two of the Celtics big three are better than Cleveland's no.2/3 options.

LeBron is still also very young, if he won the title now he'd be well ahead of schedule.

The Cavs record is impressive, don't get me wrong, but outside of the top 4 teams, the East has a lot of mediocre squads to beat up on too.

He will win MVP though.