Steroids in the NBA

[adamcz]

I'm not accusing any specific players of using drugs - just want to make that clear.

But steroids have been a problem in pretty much every other sport. Why would basketball be the only sport that doesn't suffer from steroids? Rumors swirled around baseball players such as Bonds for many years before everyone finally admitted that yes, he obviously was using steroids. Why did it take so long for everyone to admit that he never could have gotten that big without juicing?

The NBA's drug testing policy is known to be pretty lax. It just seems like the opportunity is there, and with certain players, the superman muscles are there as well. In baseball and boxing we found out later that in virtually every case these superman looking players were juicing. Will we one day find out the same about basketball players? Players in the 80's weight trained pretty seriously but none of them looked like the freakishly cut players of today.

http://docs.google.com/File?id=dd4nrbjq_739j6rm2qdn_b
http://mvn.com/bucksdiary/2009/04/revisiting-my-dwight-howard-steroid-accusation.html

[The_Yearning]

Wade is on it...he ain't fooling nobody...

[twolvesfan]

anyone who thinks there arent any steroid users in the NBA is just naive

[2LeTTeRS]

Players in the 80's weight trained pretty seriously but none of them looked like the freakishly cut players of today.

http://docs.google.com/File?id=dd4nrbjq_739j6rm2qdn_b
http://mvn.com/bucksdiary/2009/04/revisiting-my-dwight-howard-steroid-accusation.html

I disagree. Most NBA players of that era starting working with weights but they don't do it seriously. They believed that getting too strong would take away their lateral quickness and throw their shot off, so yes they'd lift but not on a true serious level. When you're talking about a serious weight lifting regimen you end up looking like this:

http://www.thedirty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cstrh23e8ggb.jpg

So yes guys like Dwight and Bron are huge for NBA standards, and they've bucked the stereotype that being muscular hurts your game as a basketball player, but compared to NFLers, they really don't seem that big. Its just that when you see them beside long lanky guys like Tayshaun Prince and Chris Bosh that they look bigger. And seriously are either Dwight are Bron really that much bigger than Karl Malone was or Ben Wallace is?

[sodap]

It's interesting how many players enter NBA as muscular, but normal guys and one year later they are all superman.

[Kebab Stall]

Guys like Lebron and Dwight aren't really that big compared to juicers (NFL players, MLB players). They're very toned with a fair amount of muscle mass. Apart from Ben Wallace, there isn't really anyone in the NBA that comes across as being a muscle bound freak. You're kidding yourselves if you think guys like Lebron and Dwight are muscle bound. Compared to the NBA, the are bigger than average, but compared to athletes in other sports, they're not that big.

[plowking]

Dwyane Wade has steroid rage.

Hopefully he takes it out on his playoff opponents.

[Meticode]

Guys like Lebron and Dwight aren't really that big compared to juicers (NFL players, MLB players). They're very toned with a fair amount of muscle mass. Apart from Ben Wallace, there isn't really anyone in the NBA that comes across as being a muscle bound freak. You're kidding yourselves if you think guys like Lebron and Dwight are muscle bound. Compared to the NBA, the are bigger than average, but compared to athletes in other sports, they're not that big.

This could be because they build lean muscle. Alex Rodriguez has done this and so has many other athletes. I do agree with you that LeBron isn't muscle bound like someone like the likes of Ben Wallace. He's just overall better distributing his muscles form his legs to his shoulders, Wallace has a lot skinner legs than LeBron.

http://www.towleroad.com/images/2007/09/19/lebron2.jpg

[niko]

It's interesting how many players enter NBA as muscular, but normal guys and one year later they are all superman.
yeah, thats interesting. Oh wait, its not. Because it doesn't happen.

[Kebab Stall]

This could be because they build lean muscle. Alex Rodriguez has done this and so has many other athletes. I do agree with you that LeBron isn't muscle bound like someone like the likes of Ben Wallace. He's just overall better distributing his muscles form his legs to his shoulders, Wallace has a lot skinner legs than LeBron.

http://www.towleroad.com/images/2007/09/19/lebron2.jpg
Which is what I was thinking. Steroids don't just make you into a muscle bound freak straight away, you still have to work incredibly hard to get the results you want.

[plowking]

http://www.grafxhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/rayallen2.jpg

Ray Allen.



http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7825/tybmdumzxdxmotg20040318pq9.jpg


Joey Graham has steroid rage!

[brantonli]

^^ Is Allen thinking of going into bodybuilding or something? :wtf:

[Thorpesaurous]

One of the things steroids do is heal damaged muscle. That's why they work. You work out, destroy muscle, and it rebuilds stronger. It's one of the reasons I thought you would see more pitchers using than hitters in baseball if you were ever able to read everyone's minds. Especially helpfull it would be for relievers who are destroying there arms three to four times a week. The quick healing turnaround steroids could provide would be huge. I'm not sure what the suspension positional breakdown would be. It'd be interesting.

All that said, I think a well thought out steroid regimen would be really beneficial to a basketball player playing four or five times a week, back to backs, three in four nights. I'm not sure if it's ingrained in the culture enough to be happening, but I wouldn't be even a little surprised, because it would probably exceptionally helpfull.

[jmill]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6892/karlb.jpg

[plowking]

^^ Is Allen thinking of going into bodybuilding or something? :wtf:

I'm more impressed with Joey Graham. Though he seems to have lost his passion for body building since coming into the NBA. He looks like he has added bodyfat.

[plowking]

Corey Maggette is another guy who has some ridiculously huge arms.

[PleezeBelieve]

Its pretty obvious Wade is juicing. No surprise there....

[plowking]

Its pretty obvious Wade is juicing. No surprise there....

...

Wade isn't nearly as cut as a lot of players.

Don't be mad because he had one of the best individual seasons. It's not all about Lebron.

[ronnymac]

Anthony Mason and Maybe charles oakley were on it. heck half of the knicks squad was on it in those days.

[A. Blackmon]

NBA players do not use steroids. Lot's of them are ripped because they've been in great shape their whole lives, and they are put through routines designed specifically for them by professional trainers.

I'm sure that they all consume some type of supplements, but non would be considered steroids or banned substances.

[mlh1981]

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6892/karlb.jpg


He's a good ol country farmboy.

He spent his offseasons tossing around bails of hay.

[Kebab Stall]

^^ Is Allen thinking of going into bodybuilding or something? :wtf:
Allen is very cut and has lean muscle, he is far from bulked up. He would be one of the last people I suspect of taking roids.

[twolvesfan]

steroids dont automatically mean you get big. like someone else mentioned a lot of times they are used to help people recover faster since the only thing steroids actually do is help muscle rebuild faster so you can workout a lot more

[adamcz]

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/12/03/mn_bonds_001_cag.jpg
^Not possible without 'roids.

http://geneticsandsociety.org/images/canseco.jpg
^Not possible without 'roids.

http://ptwithchris.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/a-rod-upper-body.jpg
^Not possible without 'roids.

And yet.....

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6892/karlb.jpg

That's all natural?

[iTruWarrior]

Nothing natural about this

http://slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/dwight.jpg

TO

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/Images/players/Howard_Dwight/Dwight%2037-4.jpg

[lukeridnour08]

LOL

People are posting up DH12 picture from when he was 17 years old.

This was when he was in HighSchool, probably never lifted weights (if he did he probably didnt know what the fukc he was doing) and never dieted or ate correctly.

Then he gets in the NBA, has a world class trainer with a word class weight room, has all the food he could ever want.

Obviously the guy is gonna be huge.


I seriously doubt more then 3% of the league uses steriods in the off-season.

I would say though, that during season, they are using some kind of supplement that may or may not be legal to help them recover faster

[BrentISballin]

You guys are crazy, just because guys are in shape and muscular they are on roids? Like the guy above me said, they basically live with world class trainers and eat whatever they want. Eating and lifting will bulk you up FAST

[GiveItToBurrito]

Wade is on it...he ain't fooling nobody...

Based solely on annectdotal evidence, I wouldn't be surprised. He came back from injuries a lot better than he's ever been, and he just seems way too strong and fast for someone of his size. At the same time, he might be just that good.

The thing that concerns me about the NBA and steroids is that it's the league that would be the most likely to cover it up. More so than with any other sport, the NBA's based on individual players and their personalities; it's the only major sport where you can see the players entire heads, and there seem to be more endorsement deals for NBA players than any other sport. Add in the fact that there are already a lot of theories that the league is closer to pro wrestling than the NFL, and it wouldn't be shocking to hear that the league was covering up or intentionally ignorant of players using steroids.

[Lakas Fan Yo]

Of course some NBA players are using steroids. Only the most naive people around would doubt that.

[inclinerator]

This could be because they build lean muscle. Alex Rodriguez has done this and so has many other athletes. I do agree with you that LeBron isn't muscle bound like someone like the likes of Ben Wallace. He's just overall better distributing his muscles form his legs to his shoulders, Wallace has a lot skinner legs than LeBron.

http://www.towleroad.com/images/2007/09/19/lebron2.jpg
old picture on the abc pregame it showed lebron recently and he is way more ripped and bulkier

[LA_Showtime]

is this the new way to bash players on ish? instead of bashing their fans it'll become player ___ sucks because he's obviously on steroids.

if i had to pick one guy in the nba to test for steroids, it would be d-wade. i doubt he uses them, but the guy is ripped now and his head looks bigger.

[Basketball Dirk]

There is nothing unnatural about a player being a lot bigger in their 20's then when they are 17-18. The additional working out also comes in handy.

I went from 190lbs at 17 (6'4) to 227 now that I'm in my early 20's and I didn't even work out much. Nope, it's not fat.

[Biddy77]

you don't need steroids to build any physique ever seen in the NBA. steroids will certainly get you there *quicker* than you could get there without steroids, but you can still do it plenty fast without them.

all NBA players have access to very highly paid and knowledgeable trainers and nutritionists, and a lot of guys also have personal chefs who work with their nutritionists to build meal plans for them, etc. those factors and their activity levels add up considerably.

this guy is a natural pro bodybuilder... he uses supplements like creatine, whey, casein, nitrous oxide boosters, etc... but nothing horomonal. no steroids, and no insulin + HGH cocktails.

Layne Norton:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=301578&d=1147046283

in that pic, he's in contest shape--about 1-2% lower than the lowest bodyfat percentages in the NBA.

another natural pro, Jim Cordova:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rDNyQdDXib8/SGo5CZgj51I/AAAAAAAABMg/_Pz2c0qSNJQ/s400/267d.jpg

now... neither of these guys would hold up well in an IFBB show like the Arnold Classic, or the Mr Olympia... because they'd be facing guys whose bodies you really *can't* attain without juice.

for contrast, here's a guy known for being 'small' by IFBB standards... Dexter "The Blade" Jackson:

http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/dexter_jackson.jpg

to put it in perspective, Dexter is 1" taller than Cordova (they're both shrimps, btw... 5'6" and 5'7"), and Dex outweighs Jim by over 40 pounds.

i would actually guess that steroid use in the NBA is *very* rare. in most instances, it would probably be guys cheating rehab work, etc and trying to come back quicker. unfortunately, while steroids are great for building muscle, they don't do s**t for tendons, ligaments, bones, etc.

i definitely don't think it's out of the question that some guys have given it a shot just to try to increase performance, though.

[twolvesfan]

you don't need steroids to build any physique ever seen in the NBA. steroids will certainly get you there *quicker* than you could get there without steroids, but you can still do it plenty fast without them.

all NBA players have access to very highly paid and knowledgeable trainers and nutritionists, and a lot of guys also have personal chefs who work with their nutritionists to build meal plans for them, etc. those factors and their activity levels add up considerably.

this guy is a natural pro bodybuilder... he uses supplements like creatine, whey, casein, nitrous oxide boosters, etc... but nothing horomonal. no steroids, and no insulin + HGH cocktails.

Layne Norton:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=301578&d=1147046283

in that pic, he's in contest shape--about 1-2% lower than the lowest bodyfat percentages in the NBA.

another natural pro, Jim Cordova:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rDNyQdDXib8/SGo5CZgj51I/AAAAAAAABMg/_Pz2c0qSNJQ/s400/267d.jpg

now... neither of these guys would hold up well in an IFBB show like the Arnold Classic, or the Mr Olympia... because they'd be facing guys whose bodies you really *can't* attain without juice.

for contrast, here's a guy known for being 'small' by IFBB standards... Dexter "The Blade" Jackson:

http://graysmatter.codivation.com/content/binary/dexter_jackson.jpg

to put it in perspective, Dexter is 1" taller than Cordova (they're both shrimps, btw... 5'6" and 5'7"), and Dex outweighs Jim by over 40 pounds.

i would actually guess that steroid use in the NBA is *very* rare. in most instances, it would probably be guys cheating rehab work, etc and trying to come back quicker. unfortunately, while steroids are great for building muscle, they don't do s**t for tendons, ligaments, bones, etc.

i definitely don't think it's out of the question that some guys have given it a shot just to try to increase performance, though.

nice post, this also brings up a point that irritates me so much. People will always say X player is on steroids because he has muscles, while it is impossible to tell and its not even remotely accurate to tell if someone is juicing. look at baseball pitchers for example, hardly any of them are cut and most just look like an average joe and a lot of pitchers juice.

[adamcz]

You guys are crazy, just because guys are in shape and muscular they are on roids? Like the guy above me said, they basically live with world class trainers and eat whatever they want. Eating and lifting will bulk you up FAST
Baseball players have the same exact world class trainers, and yet every baseball player who bulked up later turned out to have done so with steroids. Five or ten years ago, fans were defending the baseball players, saying that it's the world class trainers and nutrition that made them so big, but they were wrong.

If baseball players can't do it the natural way, why should basketball players have that ability?

[Biddy77]

Baseball players have the same exact world class trainers, and yet every baseball player who bulked up later turned out to have done so with steroids. Five or ten years ago, fans were defending the baseball players, saying that it's the world class trainers and nutrition that made them so big, but they were wrong.

If baseball players can't do it the natural way, why should basketball players have that ability?

the issue here is that you said "if baseball players can't do it the natural way", which is wrong, frankly.

at some point in time, steroids became an issue in baseball, and other players started short-cutting to get there quicker. word spreads quickly, and BOOM! it becomes a pervasive issue.

i have never seen a baseball player whose physique was unattainable without steroids. steroids make it quicker, and they make it easier.

also, consider the reason for steroids being popular with baseball players... pitching, and hitting. quick, powerful movements. football, same thing. players are generally dynamic for brief periods of time.

in sports like basketball, hockey, and soccer, you're on the move for more sustained periods of time, and steroids would have a less notable direct impact on a player's performance. they could help with things like holding position, explosive leaping, etc... but they aren't going to make you a better shooter, ball handler, give you better footwork, etc.

thus, the risk vs reward is a lot less agreeable.

[Thorpesaurous]

the issue here is that you said "if baseball players can't do it the natural way", which is wrong, frankly.

at some point in time, steroids became an issue in baseball, and other players started short-cutting to get there quicker. word spreads quickly, and BOOM! it becomes a pervasive issue.

i have never seen a baseball player whose physique was unattainable without steroids. steroids make it quicker, and they make it easier.

also, consider the reason for steroids being popular with baseball players... pitching, and hitting. quick, powerful movements. football, same thing. players are generally dynamic for brief periods of time.

in sports like basketball, hockey, and soccer, you're on the move for more sustained periods of time, and steroids would have a less notable direct impact on a player's performance. they could help with things like holding position, explosive leaping, etc... but they aren't going to make you a better shooter, ball handler, give you better footwork, etc.

thus, the risk vs reward is a lot less agreeable.


A lot of that is true, but similar things could be said about baseball. At the end of the day, you have to put the bat on the ball squarely, or throw the thing where you want to throw it, and neither one of those things is going to be helped by steroids.

I think the real point is that these pro sport jobs are incredibly rare commodities, that lead to untold riches and a degree of fame to even it's worst holders. And these guys are all by nature incredibly competitive. If someone gets in there ear saying this thing will help you, the guy on the fringe is not unlikely to bite. And the ability to aid recovery I think would be a very appealing element for a pro basketball player.

Like I said, I just don't think it's pervaded the culture of basketball yet. But I doubt that there's this many competitive, physical guys, making living with their bodies, and not one of them has been used a PED. Maybe it's the pessimest in me, who knows.

[Biddy77]

A lot of that is true, but similar things could be said about baseball. At the end of the day, you have to put the bat on the ball squarely, or throw the thing where you want to throw it, and neither one of those things is going to be helped by steroids.

I think the real point is that these pro sport jobs are incredibly rare commodities, that lead to untold riches and a degree of fame to even it's worst holders. And these guys are all by nature incredibly competitive. If someone gets in there ear saying this thing will help you, the guy on the fringe is not unlikely to bite. And the ability to aid recovery I think would be a very appealing element for a pro basketball player.

Like I said, I just don't think it's pervaded the culture of basketball yet. But I doubt that there's this many competitive, physical guys, making living with their bodies, and not one of them has been used a PED. Maybe it's the pessimest in me, who knows.

agreed. my point with baseball was just to highlight the power aspects of pitching and hitting, in which raw power can make a dramatic difference. pitch speed and batting distance are big deals in the sport.

generally speaking, i do agree with your post, as usual.

[DCL]

it's possible to completely dominate basketball as a skinny ass or even unathletic player. muscle mass/raw power is advantageous but not mandatory. whether steroids are helping basketball players or not is not even a concerned issue because it just isn't an issue. nobody cares in this sport because it's not even close to the major factor to whether a guy is just average or pretty good. it doesn't greatly enhance your game. steroids don't help you make a jump shot or a nice pass. if you're a good basketball player who happens to be big, you're just good because you got game, certainly not because you're taking steroids.

in other sports like baseball, it's not the same because the effects are much more realized and player might consider the results. if he doesn't take steroids, he might be hitting just 25HR. but if he decided to inject it up his ass, he might potentionally be hitting 40HR and be the man. that's significant enough to practically make the entire league care enough to trade off their testicles for sports performances. you don't need to be a rocket science to figure out that no skinny guy is ever dominating the bat or leading the league in home runs. those guys all take steroids because it's a much more significant performance enhancer for them, and it's a critical element, but basketball? shiiit, it's just a stupid issue because being just big and strong don't mean much because that alone won't make an average player into a superstar player. if you're just a 10-5 guy, taking roids won't elevate you to a 20-10 player. it's not some instant magical potion like it might be for other sports.

this is not an issue in the nba because nobody friggin cares for all the reasons above.

[twolvesfan]

it's possible to completely dominate basketball as a skinny ass or even unathletic player. muscle mass/raw power is advantageous but not mandatory. whether steroids are helping basketball players or not is not even a concerned issue because it just isn't an issue. nobody cares in this sport because it's not even close to the major factor to whether a guy is just average or pretty good. it doesn't greatly enhance your game. steroids don't help you make a jump shot or a nice pass. if you're a good basketball player who happens to be big, you're just good because you got game, certainly not because you're taking steroids.

in other sports like baseball, it's not the same because the effects are much more realized and player might consider the results. if he doesn't take steroids, he might be hitting just 25HR. but if he decided to inject it up his ass, he might potentionally be hitting 40HR and be the man. that's significant enough to practically make the entire league care enough to trade off their testicles for sports performances. you don't need to be a rocket science to figure out that no skinny guy is ever dominating the bat or leading the league in home runs. those guys all take steroids because it's a much more significant performance enhancer for them, and it's a critical element, but basketball? shiiit, it's just a stupid issue because being just big and strong don't mean much because that alone won't make an average player into a superstar player. if you're just a 10-5 guy, taking roids won't elevate you to a 20-10 player. it's not some instant magical potion like it might be for other sports.

this is not an issue in the nba because nobody friggin cares for all the reasons above.
steroids could make you a faster player and stronger which would help you a lot in rebounds. they could help you jump higher which would give you a higher chance to block shots. please dont act like steroids wouldnt have any impact in the nba. look at shawn green, he is skinny and has hit a bunch of home runs in the past. 20 years ago nobody cared or thought steroids was a problem in the mlb but oh boy now a days it seems like everyone does them.

[DCL]

steroids could make you a faster player and stronger which would help you a lot in rebounds. they could help you jump higher which would give you a higher chance to block shots. please dont act like steroids wouldnt have any impact in the nba. look at shawn green, he is skinny and has hit a bunch of home runs in the past. 20 years ago nobody cared or thought steroids was a problem in the mlb but oh boy now a days it seems like everyone does them.

the word "impact" gets thrown around too carelessly on this board.

when you're talking about "impact" like someone is an impact player, it suggests that player has significant contributions to the team. and for a baseball player who is good enough to naturally hit only 25HR or so but suddenly hits about 40 or even close to 50HR if he took steroids, that is IMPACT form steroid effects.

but do you really believe that in basketball if a guy was naturally only good enough to grab 5 boards a game might suddenly be a monster rebounder??? that's just not happening. whatever change it has is not impact. impact is something major and significant. if you're an average rebounder, taking roids won't make you into an impact rebounder. you're still going to be about average or slightly above average. that's not what i would consider as "IMPACT."

[twolvesfan]

the word "impact" gets thrown around too carelessly on this board.

when you're talking about "impact" like someone is an impact player, it suggests that player has significant contributions to the team. and for a baseball player who is good enough to naturally hit only 25HR or so but suddenly hits about 40 or even close to 50HR if he took steroids, that is IMPACT form steroid effects.

but do you really believe that in basketball if a guy was naturally only good enough to grab 5 boards a game might suddenly be a monster rebounder??? that's just not happening. whatever change it has is not impact. impact is something major and significant. if you're an average rebounder, taking roids won't make you into an impact rebounder. you're still going to be about average or slightly above average. that's not what i would consider as "IMPACT."
its possible. with a lot of added strength it would be much easier to get rebounds.

[Thorpesaurous]

the word "impact" gets thrown around too carelessly on this board.

when you're talking about "impact" like someone is an impact player, it suggests that player has significant contributions to the team. and for a baseball player who is good enough to naturally hit only 25HR or so but suddenly hits about 40 or even close to 50HR if he took steroids, that is IMPACT form steroid effects.

but do you really believe that in basketball if a guy was naturally only good enough to grab 5 boards a game might suddenly be a monster rebounder??? that's just not happening. whatever change it has is not impact. impact is something major and significant. if you're an average rebounder, taking roids won't make you into an impact rebounder. you're still going to be about average or slightly above average. that's not what i would consider as "IMPACT."

Isn't basketball the most purely physical sport. Doesn't it rely the most on athleticism. So wouldn't that alone make the potential use of PEDs more compelling.

[plowking]

Really, people think Wade is using steroids?

I'm 6'4 as well and have 10lbs on Wade. I bench just over 330lbs as my max, and I haven't touched steroids in my life. Not even protein shakes.

Now I'm supposed to believe someone, who was way faster, jumps a bit higher and is possibly as strong as I am, uses roids, when he had the same running and jumping ability as a rookie? Only now he is stronger, though it's what happens when you go from 21 to 27. He is only 10lbs heavier then his rookie weight.

[Biddy77]

Isn't basketball the most purely physical sport. Doesn't it rely the most on athleticism. So wouldn't that alone make the potential use of PEDs more compelling.

basketball is definitely one of the most physical and athletically reliant sports. despite this, basketball ability is actually more technique-driven than athletic.

in baseball, football, swimming, track, gymnastics, etc--sports in which steroids are generally pervasive--raw physical power and explosiveness is often involved in the most frequent applications of athletecism. pitching, hitting, throwing a ball, etc--are all skills that benefit heavily from an increase in power.

incredible amounts of raw power aren't applicable to shooting, passing, or dribbling, which are the fundamental skills in basketball.

this is why i brought up the risk vs reward component. if a guy goes "well, i could take this s**t and get stronger, and that could help me jump a little higher, or box out better, but it won't help my points, assists, or steals, won't help defense, rebounding, or blocks much, and can f**k up my career if people find out"--then he's less likely to juice than a guy in baseball who is going "this s**t can help my hitting, and that's half the game for me", or "this s**t can help my pitch speed, and that's the whole game for me".

[Biddy77]

Really, people think Wade is using steroids?

I'm 6'4 as well and have 10lbs on Wade. I bench just over 330lbs as my max, and I haven't touched steroids in my life. Not even protein shakes.

Now I'm supposed to believe someone, who was way faster, jumps a bit higher and is possibly as strong as I am, uses roids, when he had the same running and jumping ability as a rookie? Only now he is stronger, though it's what happens when you go from 21 to 27. He is only 10lbs heavier then his rookie weight.

exactly.

at one point while i was a trainer by vocation, i put on 10 pounds of lean tissue over the course of a year, and i've never touched juice in my life.

a lot of how easy/hard it is to gain muscle boils down to where you're at in relation to your maximum natural potential. wade is still within his natural range, but he's getting closer to the top end. muscle gains will come more slowly now. if he put on 10 pounds of lean body mass in the next year from where he's at now, i might start looking at him a bit harder, but even 10 more pounds over the next two years is easily done at his dimensions.

[Fatal9]

Isn't basketball the most purely physical sport. Doesn't it rely the most on athleticism. So wouldn't that alone make the potential use of PEDs more compelling.
There isn't that much pressure in the NBA to bulk up though. Most players who clearly need to (Bosh, Durant etc.) voluntarily choose not to bulk up because it would affect their lateral quickness, mobility and body control/jumping ability. Baseball is a very static sport where the pitcher and batter are nailed to the plate. Adding extra mass while reducing your quickness and other athletic abilities isn't nearly as costly. I read an NBA/steroids related article and basically it said that MJ packed on weight when he went to baseball through a lot of weight lifting to increase power, but when he came back he wanted to shed it because it wasn't helping him at all.

I doubt if Lebron did steroids and went so far away from his natural body weight that he would be so agile and athletic. Same with Dwight. These guys have always been unnatural for their size, that's probably why they got into basketball in the first place.


Really, people think Wade is using steroids?

I'm 6'4 as well and have 10lbs on Wade. I bench just over 330lbs as my max, and I haven't touched steroids in my life. Not even protein shakes.

Now I'm supposed to believe someone, who was way faster, jumps a bit higher and is possibly as strong as I am, uses roids, when he had the same running and jumping ability as a rookie? Only now he is stronger, though it's what happens when you go from 21 to 27. He is only 10lbs heavier then his rookie weight.
The speculation is only for how fast he healed. In the regular season he would look awful and the Heat shut him down but in the summer he was doing alleyoop windmills.

[DCL]

Isn't basketball the most purely physical sport. Doesn't it rely the most on athleticism. So wouldn't that alone make the potential use of PEDs more compelling.

well, we're on different premises on this notion because i do not believe basketball is the sport that is most-reliant on physicalities or pure athleticism, as you have stated.

not even close if you look at sports like track and field, weightlifting, or swimming. those pure event sports are way more reliant on physical capacities. all those 0.02 seconds or just 5-10 extra lbs make a world of difference. and steroids do produce a meaningful factor.

there's so many variables going on in basketball, and many physical areas can compensated for with just smarter plays and strategies. but of course, world class athleticim is advantageous, but it's not absolutely mandatory or guys like bird would never had dominated.

however, if you talk about sports like track and field or swimming, you NEED world class athleticism to compete, period. the primary factor in those sports is whether you're fast or not, or whether you're strong or not, etc. there's no way to compensate and be competitive if you lack those, period. there's just no way to get around the physical inferiority if you're slower/weaker than the other guy. so smarts, quick decision making, vision, technical skills, strategic plays and all the other non-physical stuff don't really change much for those sports like how they can do for basketball. this is why even slow overweight guys can still have a good time at the y if they have a deadly jumper, box out properly, and play some decent team defense. but if you're slow and overweight and try to compete in track and field or swimming, there's just no prayer of hope.

[RoseCity07]

Lifting weights all year and eating right you can expect to ass about 3-5 pounds of muscle. If you gain 15 pounds that ain't all muscle, thats 5 pounds muscle 10 pounds fat, doesn't matter what you say.

5 pounds doesn't sound like a lot until you add it up. 25 pounds of muscle after 5 years. 50 pounds after 10.

I believe Lebron's is all natural.

[plowking]

Lifting weights all year and eating right you can expect to ass about 3-5 pounds of muscle. If you gain 15 pounds that ain't all muscle, thats 5 pounds muscle 10 pounds fat, doesn't matter what you say.

5 pounds doesn't sound like a lot until you add it up. 25 pounds of muscle after 5 years. 50 pounds after 10.

I believe Lebron's is all natural.

You see results quicker then that. You convert a lot more fat into muscle then 3-5lbs in a year, depending on where you start out.

[twolvesfan]

Lifting weights all year and eating right you can expect to ass about 3-5 pounds of muscle. If you gain 15 pounds that ain't all muscle, thats 5 pounds muscle 10 pounds fat, doesn't matter what you say.

5 pounds doesn't sound like a lot until you add it up. 25 pounds of muscle after 5 years. 50 pounds after 10.

I believe Lebron's is all natural.
you can add alot more then that

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Lifting weights all year and eating right you can expect to ass about 3-5 pounds of muscle. If you gain 15 pounds that ain't all muscle, thats 5 pounds muscle 10 pounds fat, doesn't matter what you say.

5 pounds doesn't sound like a lot until you add it up. 25 pounds of muscle after 5 years. 50 pounds after 10.

I believe Lebron's is all natural.

Edward Norton did 30 in a few months.
Christian Bale gained 100 in six months while retaining a sub-10% BF.

Care to explain this.

Kevin Willis is the only guy I'd slightly suspect.

[Biddy77]

RoseCity07 was actually pretty accurate, although he didn't acknowledge the diminishing returns of muscle gains as you increase in size.

ed norton was able to gain a lot of weight because he started so small in the first place, and i promise you, 30 pounds of muscle in "a few months" is not humanly possible without juice.

also, christian bale's weight gains either came after his insane emaciation from the role he had in The Machinist, or they did not happen, even WITH steroids. 100 pounds in six months doesn't happen to a non-starved human being, even on juice. period. for that matter, 100 pounds in FOUR YEARS wouldn't happen without steroids unless it was rebound weight from being starved and dehydrated. or... five years.

seriously.

i hold 3 certifications as a personal trainer, i'm not talking out of my ass in saying that.


edited to laugh at this link, which would seem to be where JM got his awesome info:

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Hollywood-Actors-Gain-Muscle-For-Movie-Roles&id=742853

that stuff is bulls**t. believe me. i did this for a living.

if those claims were legit, Bale would have been walking around at 270+ pounds.

here's a pic of 270 pounds on someone near his height:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_g93bcGvgWBo/SbP5SG3imhI/AAAAAAAAHDU/zfV4FfFBSB8/s400/MarkusRuhl-MD-Bernal-252.jpg

that's markus ruhl, and the dude pops dbol like skittles.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I think HGH would be more prevalent in the NBA than steroids, mainly for recuperative purposes. Both should be tested for a lot more frequently than they are now.

[Juges8932]

I'm 6'0.5" 195 lbs bench 330, don't use anything, don't even work out more than twice a week, and somehow, one of the greatest athletes in the NBA (Wade), who is 6'4 and 225 lbs can't get to that size without using something lol? That's a ****ing joke. People who are accusing certain players of this are the guys who can't attain that type of size and strength without using supplements and therefore can't believe it. These guys have world class trainers and nutritionists. They work out everyday and do stuff specifically designed for what they need to improve in the necessary areas for bball. I mean, I wouldn't be SURPRISED if they use natural supplements, like creatine or something, but even then, when they work out everyday like that with a trained pro, it isn't too far of a stretch to assume they could achieve such a physique. Steroids wouldn't even really be that handy for basketball. It adds a lot of bulk, which isn't really necessary or good for bball. It doesn't help with ligaments, tendons, etc. Maybe a center or PF, but not for somebody like Wade that needs to stay light and quick on their feet. I think accusing LBJ is also retarded. As you get older, you're naturally going to get bigger and stronger. It isn't like he was a small guy when he first game into the league anyways. He obviously hit the genetic lottery. Maybe it's just people trying to find new ways of bashing or hating, IDK, but it's dumb.

[OldSchoolBBall]

exactly.

at one point while i was a trainer by vocation, i put on 10 pounds of lean tissue over the course of a year, and i've never touched juice in my life.

a lot of how easy/hard it is to gain muscle boils down to where you're at in relation to your maximum natural potential. wade is still within his natural range, but he's getting closer to the top end. muscle gains will come more slowly now. if he put on 10 pounds of lean body mass in the next year from where he's at now, i might start looking at him a bit harder, but even 10 more pounds over the next two years is easily done at his dimensions.

Since you were a trainer, let me ask you your opinion on this: do you agree that if Dwight Howard filled out his arms/chest/torso to match the size of his shoulders, he would be monstrous, as in Mr. Olympia monstrous? You can tell that even as muscular as he is, his frame can easily handle another 20-35 pounds of muscle with no problem.

[plowking]

I'm 6'0.5" 195 lbs bench 330, don't use anything, don't even work out more than twice a week, and somehow, one of the greatest athletes in the NBA (Wade), who is 6'4 and 225 lbs can't get to that size without using something lol? That's a ****ing joke. People who are accusing certain players of this are the guys who can't attain that type of size and strength without using supplements and therefore can't believe it. These guys have world class trainers and nutritionists. They work out everyday and do stuff specifically designed for what they need to improve in the necessary areas for bball. I mean, I wouldn't be SURPRISED if they use natural supplements, like creatine or something, but even then, when they work out everyday like that with a trained pro, it isn't too far of a stretch to assume they could achieve such a physique. Steroids wouldn't even really be that handy for basketball. It adds a lot of bulk, which isn't really necessary or good for bball. It doesn't help with ligaments, tendons, etc. Maybe a center or PF, but not for somebody like Wade that needs to stay light and quick on their feet. I think accusing LBJ is also retarded. As you get older, you're naturally going to get bigger and stronger. It isn't like he was a small guy when he first game into the league anyways. He obviously hit the genetic lottery. Maybe it's just people trying to find new ways of bashing or hating, IDK, but it's dumb.


Some ISH posters are supermen. You are 195lbs and bench 330lbs?

I'm 235lbs, go to the gym 5 times a week and bench 330lbs as my max (4 times, at most).

I highly doubt you can do that at your weight and regime. :oldlol:

[Juges8932]

Some ISH posters are supermen. You are 195lbs and bench 330lbs?

I'm 235lbs, go to the gym 5 times a week and bench 330lbs as my max (4 times, at most).

I highly doubt you can do that at your weight and regime. :oldlol:

Lol, I understand your doubt, especially coming from a poster online. Honestly, I am just pretty genetically gifted, one of those guys.

The thing about me is, when I first started working out, I did bench about 3 times a week for 3 months, so I established a good foundation, and that coupled with good genetics= now I can work out basically whenever. I'm also 20, so it helps being young young. It also helps that I have been doing basically the same thing since I was 17 (I don't want to be like huge), so my body is pretty established. I wouldn't be able to do it more than once. For me, max= most one time rep.

But it's cool, whatev lol.:cheers:

[plowking]

Lol, I understand your doubt, especially coming from a poster online. Honestly, I am just pretty genetically gifted, one of those guys.

The thing about me is, when I first started working out, I did bench about 3 times a week for 3 months, so I established a good foundation, and that coupled with good genetics= now I can work out basically whenever. I'm also 20, so it helps being young young. It also helps that I have been doing basically the same thing since I was 17 (I don't want to be like huge), so my body is pretty established. I wouldn't be able to do it more than once. For me, max= most one time rep.

But it's cool, whatev lol.:cheers:

I just find it incredible that you can lift near double your weight, when you only lift 2 times a week.

Oh, is this free weights or machine assisted?

I just find it even more impressive seeing as you can bench more in terms of ratio to body weight then Ben Wallace can at his max, all with only 2 workouts a week.

[Juges8932]

I just find it incredible that you can lift near double your weight, when you only lift 2 times a week.

Oh, is this free weights or machine assisted?

I just find it even more impressive seeing as you can bench more in terms of ratio to body weight then Ben Wallace can at his max, all with only 2 workouts a week.

All the weight I do with regards to chest is free weights. I always alternate heavy work outs with light every other time, ever since I started.
Heavy work out=
5x5 flat bench
5x5 incline bench
5x5 decline bench
5x10-15 butterflies (On flat bench with dumb bells)
Most of these are with barbells, but sometimes I'll do it with dumb bells to switch things up. Break= 2-3 min between sets. Sometimes less, sometimes more, just depends on my willingness to try hard that day.

Light work out=
5x15 on all the above types^ with 45 sec-1.5 min break

Bench Wallace also weighs mucccccccccccccch more, so getting a higher strength-to-weight ratio is going to be a lot harder for somebody of his size. I thought Ben Wallace benched 500? If so, then that's higher than me. Doesn't he weigh 240? If so, then that is much higher ratio than mine. Mine is what, 1.7 or so?

Again, I'm not saying I don't understand where you're coming from, it's hard to tell online and credibility is subjective really. I was just trying to contribute to the thread based off my personal experience with somebody like Wade, who has obviously hit the genetic lottery.

[Biddy77]

Since you were a trainer, let me ask you your opinion on this: do you agree that if Dwight Howard filled out his arms/chest/torso to match the size of his shoulders, he would be monstrous, as in Mr. Olympia monstrous? You can tell that even as muscular as he is, his frame can easily handle another 20-35 pounds of muscle with no problem.

to be conditioned the way he is and as muscular as a mister olympia contender, he'd have to gain a lot more than 20-35 pounds. quincy taylor (6'4") has gone on stage at 304 in tighter condition than dwight. allowing for his same rough bodyfat %, dwight would probably have to be in the neighborhood of 370 to match that. i'm just throwing out an estimate right now. kind of hung over from watching the blazers implode in the 4th Q to throw away any hopes of winning the series.

what a terrible f**king night.

here's quincy out of contest shape.

http://www.criticalbench.com/images/quincytaylor2.jpg

and in contest shape (although he's holding water... looks 'smooth' compared to how he should be at that bf%):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/1805160099_2a5956987c.jpg?v=0

[Godfather]

Honestly if it was revealed LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Dwight Howard and other muscular studs took steroids it would not surprise me.

It is stunning to me that they got so big so quickly.

[dab0yech0]

Kevin Willis is the only guy I'd slightly suspect.

Kevin Willis and Karl Malone as a Laker would be my suspects. They had so much muscle that those guys could rarely dunk and were barely getting up there for layups. I know they were old but those guys seemed like they were glued stuck to the ground.

[OldSchoolBBall]

to be conditioned the way he is and as muscular as a mister olympia contender, he'd have to gain a lot more than 20-35 pounds. quincy taylor (6'4") has gone on stage at 304 in tighter condition than dwight. allowing for his same rough bodyfat %, dwight would probably have to be in the neighborhood of 370 to match that. i'm just throwing out an estimate right now. kind of hung over from watching the blazers implode in the 4th Q to throw away any hopes of winning the series.

what a terrible f**king night.

here's quincy out of contest shape.

http://www.criticalbench.com/images/quincytaylor2.jpg

and in contest shape (although he's holding water... looks 'smooth' compared to how he should be at that bf%):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/1805160099_2a5956987c.jpg?v=0

Thanks. No, I know that 25-35 pounds of muscle wouldn't put him into the Mr. Olympia class at all. I was just saying that his frame can so easily support that extra muscle. His genetics are amazing. If he filled out his chest/arms/torso to match his shoulders, it'd be scary.

[JM720]

You cant always determine who is on roids or not by just looking at their body, for example when its comes to sports like cycling and swimming athletes have been caught using steroids but you would never be able to tell cause of their size and frame. I dont know much about roids but it doesnt seem you have to be bodybuilder huge to be on roids.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

biddy77 my bad. I was playing Devil's Advocate and decided not to re-check the facts. It just seemed 3 - 5 lbs were way too low for 365 years of productivity in the gym.

I think when I was 15 or so I ballooned from 145-155 over the course of a half a spring and a summer. It was probably "natural" puberty growth alongsid This was w/o Whey, eating 'bout 3000 calories and it was low enough BF to see all six abs.

But 3-5 pounds of raw lean mass a year it just seems so friggin low. I'm talking about a strict regimine of good form squats, deadlifts, benches mixed in with the enough curls, military presses, lunges, shoulder shrugs to induce exceptional hypertrophy. That paired with a solid diet can assurely gain more.. esp for a tip-top athlete sans steroids?

[reppy]

Every single player that I dislike is on steroids, it's a fact.

[chocolatethunder]

Anyone here who thinks that NBA players aren't roided to the gills is just naive. YOU DO NOT I REPEAT YOU DO NOT necessarily get gigantic when you're on steroids. I have friends that either play or have played professionally in the three major sports. Take baseball as an example. Pitchers and infielders are notorious for taking steroids just for recovery. Not for bulking up but just so they can play at a high level. You mean to tell me that in the NBA in an 82 game season where guys like Iverson get tossed around like a rag doll, and guys like Shaq, Yao and Howard get fouled and hung on on every play there there isn't blatant steroid abuse going on there? Sorry but there is. One of my friends that played major league baseball told me that his steroid dealer said that the majority of his clients were...NBA players. Take that for what it's worth but that's what he said.

[Darius]

A lot of people in this thread aren't realizing how steriods work.

Steriods don't make your muscles bigger per se, what they do is significantly decrease recovery times - allowing you to work longer, more often and harder.

I do think there is steriod use is basketball due to how many games that are played over the course of a season. Players need to help their body recover.

A guy like D. Wade is definently suspect - his sudden bounce back from a number of very serious injuries is unprecedented.

[Diesel J]

old picture on the abc pregame it showed lebron recently and he is way more ripped and bulkier

Lebron isn't that jacked. He looks jacked compared to most NBA players because most NBA players are long and lanky. I remember Boomer Esiason (former NFL) who is listed at 6-5 224 lbs, saying on WFAN (NY sports radio) that he saw Lebron at the airport once and he was "small". He said Lebron isn't as big as he looks on TV.

[Norcaliblunt]

Lebron is a well known steroid junkie.

[light]

Can you imagine what the players in the 80s were doing?

Everything under the sun. There was essentially no testing for PEDs whatsoever.

[Norcaliblunt]

Players in the 80s were juiced to the gills.

[eliteballer]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b6/22/c2/b622c23710df06e9d8fdffa44f475994--cleveland-cavs-king-james.jpg


https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/lebron-james-of-the-cleveland-cavaliers-looks-to-pass-against-the-san-picture-id85153038


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UkLrKr3KVvmKb9pLowD34pgjRlg=/0x0:1000x667/1200x800/filters:focal(0x0:1000x667)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/photo_images/2971465/GYI0065063672.jpg


https://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/LeBron+James+Orlando+Magic+v+Cleveland+Cavaliers+i CV3WkaL3MTl.jpg


https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/711x516/https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/dam/imageserve/a5dd1ed0958f431194970ae7b1dbf5ea/960x0.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.nba.com/images/cms/lebron-anthonydavis-alert.jpg

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2c19af1/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1262+0+0/resize/840x518!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.trbimg.com%2Fimg-5c6efa0f%2Fturbine%2Fny-1550776839-iuba7ohfkw-snap-image

https://media.cleveland.com/cavs_impact/photo/screen-shot-2016-01-15-at-122400-pmpng-f0e533bd2a33bb6b.png

https://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/LeBron+James+Tim+Duncan+Miami+Heat+v+San+Antonio+z ZK2C4vgVQ-l.jpg

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2019/1226/r645729_1296x729_16-9.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/094ba8ba2b91c2e27c28c3e38dfd234b86fda0d2/c=0-0-4281-2419/local/-/media/2018/02/18/USATODAY/USATODAY/636545508900254190-USATSI-10554877.jpg

https://cavaliersnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-11-at-6.37.48-PM-copy-300x195@2x.jpg


https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2018/1121/r466907_1296x729_16-9.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/8e/03/088e030b8ca4629be0bfaab18e67865b.jpg

https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/landscape_928x523/2011/06/115951134_a_l.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/06/06/sports/CITY-DRIBBLE/CITY-DRIBBLE-master1050.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/AP_lebron_james_ml_150226_12x5_992.jpg

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MDI4NzY0OTc0OTQ5NzYw/lebron-james-lakers-mag-inlinejpg.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://media.nbclosangeles.com/2019/09/LeBron-and-AD.png

https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1191555427/960x0.jpg

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2019%2F03%2F lebron-james-out-for-rest-of-season-due-to-injury-001.jpg

https://cdn.chatsports.com/cache/ed/0e/ed0e18d02662d9c13ffe4bdab5492193-original.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://sircharlesincharge.com/files/2015/10/lebron-james-nba-preseason-atlanta-hawks-cleveland-cavaliers1.jpg

https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi/3321417469927/2014/1/43bd9a8bca3f4bf57810b0f13e187f69/LeBron-James-Blake-Griffin-are-NBA-Players-of-the-Week.jpg

https://hoopshabit.com/files/2014/04/lebron-james-blake-griffin-nba-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers.jpg

https://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/LeBron-James-Blake-Griffin.jpg

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/02/26/USAT/f60ea388-6e2d-4116-a51e-03e277e27bc1-USATSI_14098052.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.sportscasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/SC-Anthony-Davis-stay-w-Zion-2-GettyImages-1085544754.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.si.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTY4MTk5MjY5ODAxODYzMDY5/140612140737-kawhi-leonard-lebron-james-single-image-cutjpg.jpg

https://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/51513_HeatBulls.jpg

https://cdn.chatsports.com/cache/52/af/52af530fd82b9ca7481502a62074e7d4-original.jpg

https://s.abcnews.com/images/GMA/191015_gma_holmes_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/GettyImages-11888145-16x9-1.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/848/082/hi-res-86d9dbe9438a421f121e1828062d9e88_crop_north.jpg?15 79406276&w=3072&h=2048

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200810141218/download-2-42.jpg

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2020/01/usatsi_8449792_168382939_lowres-e1579298983440.jpg

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Sports/WireAP_975dbb95061a40c4a2b63a6e7aad1ee8_16x9_992.j pg

https://www.sportsnet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/lebron_harden-1040x572.jpg

[eliteballer]

http://media.al.com/sports_impact/photo/8906121-standard.jpg

https://pics.me.me/ben-wallace-was-a-beast-17931050.png

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/69115646_10157296609496006_7193712024822480896_o.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=0C4_BZssqmkAX9xp5k-&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&tp=6&oh=4e0ff38b4cc4cbc55b2f695885b1c0a1&oe=5F848241

https://imengine.prod.srp.navigacloud.com/?uuid=D0F61310-FAEC-459F-8147-7F587BF9A638&type=primary&q=72&width=1024

[eliteballer]

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_1066,w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Flakeshowlife.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F08%2F1199972171.jpeg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/M25JPA/denver-usa-5th-feb-2018-charlotte-hornets-center-dwight-howard-shoots-M25JPA.jpg

[Lebron23]

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_1066,w_1600/https%3A%2F%2Flakeshowlife.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F08%2F1199972171.jpeg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/M25JPA/denver-usa-5th-feb-2018-charlotte-hornets-center-dwight-howard-shoots-M25JPA.jpg

It's not LeBron's fault that you have more estrogen than Testoterone in your body.

[eliteballer]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/HToKuX7SmOEt-mJLXJf7ThBZ7Ak=/0x0:4019x3003/1200x800/filters:focal(2169x288:2811x930)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57939235/usa_today_10400868.0.jpg

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/74/15/72/15785653/3/420x0.jpg

https://images.complex.com/complex/images/c_limit,dpr_auto,q_90,w_720/fl_lossy,pg_1/s316cvbcv1ld7bwvmqsc/lebron-james-space-jam-2-court

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/09/13/USAT/6a4b5889-9e2c-495b-a83a-2d945f0a722e-2020-09-12_LeBron1.jpg?crop=3400,2583,x130,y100&width=660&height=502&format=pjpg&auto=webp

[eliteballer]

Just look at LeBron and Dwight in this game compared to everyone else..

[oldtimer28]

Just look at LeBron and Dwight in this game compared to everyone else..

Thinking the same thing...

[eliteballer]

:eek:

[eliteballer]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g0Ue_pO6SuVf1cL17h-tqjJb140=/0x1:1000x668/1400x1400/filters:focal(0x1:1000x668):format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/photo_images/4996680/110255707.jpg

https://netswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2020/06/usatsi_13947116.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/msid-76374109,width-1070,height-580,imgsize-117969,resizemode-75,overlay-toi_sw,pt-32,y_pad-40/photo.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNL6ogqW4AYwDUk.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmsEmwyCIAAlKgt.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PU5aucogkHAzd5n9j-RPNeycEo4=/0x0:5568x3712/1200x800/filters:focal(2746x861:3636x1751)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/67159458/1227899413.jpg.0.jpg

https://fansided.com/files/2017/01/9778366-dwight-howard-tony-brothers-nba-detroit-pistons-atlanta-hawks.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/zuPQe9BiP85uvGsiWA9aWh2TsTw=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19297652/usa_today_13517693.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://images.daznservices.com/di/library/omnisport/6d/81/dennis-schroder-left-and-dwight-howard-right_1nfxt8xm663ie1r8bz55wythqg.jpg?t=747441442&quality=100

https://lebronwire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/37/2019/08/sipa_12972229.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

[eliteballer]

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fe3205ae8496e04a51776986e265f4bcd7b6a7dd/0_52_3224_1933/master/3224.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180701213413-lebron-james-game-7-052718-large-169.jpg

https://lakersdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/USATSI_14977380_168386351_lowres-615x400.jpg

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2020/08/16/dbb0b013-57b7-4729-9491-f1baa9a1d6e5/thumbnail/1200x675/60b98c47b731866fc6f5b356e5871506/lebron-james.jpg

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/lebron4-1.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2020/01/usatsi_13930302_168382939_lowres-e1579456536295.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaKILPV78DU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-4pQZlXBMQ

[eliteballer]

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2020/01/usatsi_13930302_168382939_lowres-e1579456536295.jpg

:eek:

[Shogon]

Look... here’s the deal... even IF it comes out at some point that LeBron was juicing for his ENTIRE career and you are “proven right” because you’re always pretending like there are a ton of people arguing with you that LeBron is clean... EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS AND HIS ENTIRE CAREER IS SHAMED FOREVER...

EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS!!!

You will still be the same mentally unhinged borderline psychopath that posted pictures of LeBron by yourself over and over and over for YEARS with little to no responses. And STILL nobody will care about you.

You have problems, you don’t have a life and you will die alone and as a miserable person.

Good luck, you’re going to need it!

Ciao!

[eliteballer]

Look... here’s the deal... even IF it comes out at some point that LeBron was juicing for his ENTIRE career and you are “proven right” because you’re always pretending like there are a ton of people arguing with you that LeBron is clean... EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS AND HIS ENTIRE CAREER IS SHAMED FOREVER...

EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS!!!

You will still be the same mentally unhinged borderline psychopath that posted pictures of LeBron by yourself over and over and over for YEARS with little to no responses. And STILL nobody will care about you.

You have problems, you don’t have a life and you will die alone and as a miserable person.

Good luck, you’re going to need it!

Ciao!
The fact that you felt the need to make this post shows who the deranged one is:roll:

[tpols]

The fact that you felt the need to make this post shows who the deranged one is:roll:

Right?

:oldlol:

I personally have never been against steroids. Hey... if you want to make yourself as physically strong as possible and take substances under incredible medical supervision do you. Why not?

The thing I have a problem with is having your whole game being predicated on running dudes over and having ref's say the guy that got trucked committed the foul.

That's bullshit to me.

That's not basketball.

[highwhey]

Look... here’s the deal... even IF it comes out at some point that LeBron was juicing for his ENTIRE career and you are “proven right” because you’re always pretending like there are a ton of people arguing with you that LeBron is clean... EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS AND HIS ENTIRE CAREER IS SHAMED FOREVER...

EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS!!!

You will still be the same mentally unhinged borderline psychopath that posted pictures of LeBron by yourself over and over and over for YEARS with little to no responses. And STILL nobody will care about you.

You have problems, you don’t have a life and you will die alone and as a miserable person.

Good luck, you’re going to need it!

Ciao!

check out his posting in other forums: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?479447-Do-you-think-PS5-graphics-will-be-noticeably-better&p=14056070&viewfull=1#post14056070

just responds with an emoji, he's racking up post count for a reason.

ISH attracts these types of morons bc Jeff doesn't really care.

[ncrizzle]

If Ja could go ahead and get on that DeAndre Jordan dope, that would be great

:: Insert Lumberg image.... Here ::

[And1AllDay]

Look... here’s the deal... even IF it comes out at some point that LeBron was juicing for his ENTIRE career and you are “proven right” because you’re always pretending like there are a ton of people arguing with you that LeBron is clean... EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS AND HIS ENTIRE CAREER IS SHAMED FOREVER...

EVEN IF THAT HAPPENS!!!

You will still be the same mentally unhinged borderline psychopath that posted pictures of LeBron by yourself over and over and over for YEARS with little to no responses. And STILL nobody will care about you.

You have problems, you don’t have a life and you will die alone and as a miserable person.

Good luck, you’re going to need it!

Ciao!

this

[And1AllDay]

I just find it incredible that you can lift near double your weight, when you only lift 2 times a week.

Oh, is this free weights or machine assisted?

I just find it even more impressive seeing as you can bench more in terms of ratio to body weight then Ben Wallace can at his max, all with only 2 workouts a week.

why are you shitting yourself over a dude that benches 330 at 195 lb that isn't that impressive. its good but not amazing :oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Eliteballer is an asian with a small wiener. If he uses roids we might need a microscope to see his dick.

[eliteballer]

Eliteballer is an asian with a small wiener. If he uses roids we might need a microscope to see his dick.

1. I'm not asian

2. You are, and are insulting your own race:roll:

[Lebron23]

1. I'm not asian

2. You are, and are insulting your own race:roll:

Just shut the f*ck up

[IllegalD]

Eliteballer is an asian with a small wiener. If he uses roids we might need a microscope to see his dick.

The IRONY of a pinoy talking about the small size of another man's *****... :lol

[eliteballer]

https://www.nba.com/bulls/sites/bulls/files/jameswadebosh.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/61/83/0f/61830f19cccfa97b6b9e8b29123367f4.jpg

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/665333ce-56ed-4053-8c91-27dc9f42df08_1.106393b255aab487fb10947f1447bf22.jp eg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff

https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/poster/10/8/break/images/artworkimages/medium/3/dwyane-wade-chris-bosh-and-lebron-james-jennifer-pottheiser.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/gj8TxX5CHpa4yQ9Ff7hcSQZSl1k=/0x0:1200x1173/1200x800/filters:focal(504x490:696x682)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/64335851/609902.0.jpg

[Vino24]

Op has been unhinged since 2016

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Ie5nmM1Xw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gild8BBvrkA



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ItkLiqzPo4

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ougMITHKVW8

[eliteballer]

https://i.insider.com/5f41532889aff80028ab75ab?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2019%2F03%2F lebron-james-out-for-rest-of-season-due-to-injury-001.jpg

https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1191555427/960x0.jpg

https://www.si.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTY4MTk5MjY5ODAxODYzMDY5/140612140737-kawhi-leonard-lebron-james-single-image-cutjpg.jpg

https://s.abcnews.com/images/GMA/191015_gma_holmes_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/landscape_928x523/2011/06/115951134_a_l.jpg

https://www.nba.com/images/cms/lebron-anthonydavis-alert.jpg

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/2c19af1/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1262+0+0/resize/840x518!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.trbimg.com%2Fimg-5c6efa0f%2Fturbine%2Fny-1550776839-iuba7ohfkw-snap-image

[eliteballer]

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2018/1121/r466907_1296x729_16-9.jpg


https://www.sportscasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/SC-Anthony-Davis-stay-w-Zion-2-GettyImages-1085544754.jpg

[Real14]

:lol

[eliteballer]

https://s22928.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/lebron-james-91.jpg

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/1f9bb8f549e838ff983600ab338327ab

https://s.abcnews.com/images/GMA/191120_gma_hot_list_hpMain_16x9_608.jpg

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2020/08/16/dbb0b013-57b7-4729-9491-f1baa9a1d6e5/thumbnail/1200x675/60b98c47b731866fc6f5b356e5871506/lebron-james.jpg

https://www.nba.com/lakers/sites/lakers/files/1920_lal_mktg_tunein_playoffs_ts_8.17.jpg?w=756&h=440

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200819194153/a4fe09b8aed348d80acef158579e1057.jpg

https://upl.stack.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/13103057/LeBron-James-Vacation-Curls-STACK.png

https://i.redd.it/kn2yrug4cco21.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/LeBron_James_3408968580.jpg/1200px-LeBron_James_3408968580.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://i.insider.com/5b59f50f8f28351c008b4676?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp



https://upl.stack.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/13103057/LeBron-James-Vacation-Curls-STACK.png









:biggums:

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQDEkMYyuII

[light]

I'm not accusing any specific players of using drugs - just want to make that clear.

But steroids have been a problem in pretty much every other sport. Why would basketball be the only sport that doesn't suffer from steroids? Rumors swirled around baseball players such as Bonds for many years before everyone finally admitted that yes, he obviously was using steroids. Why did it take so long for everyone to admit that he never could have gotten that big without juicing?

The NBA's drug testing policy is known to be pretty lax. It just seems like the opportunity is there, and with certain players, the superman muscles are there as well. In baseball and boxing we found out later that in virtually every case these superman looking players were juicing. Will we one day find out the same about basketball players? Players in the 80's weight trained pretty seriously but none of them looked like the freakishly cut players of today.

http://docs.google.com/File?id=dd4nrbjq_739j6rm2qdn_b
http://mvn.com/bucksdiary/2009/04/revisiting-my-dwight-howard-steroid-accusation.html

Players in the 80s did not weight train seriously at all. Only very few of them did (like D.Robinson, who was known for his stellar physique). A great many players in the 80s used to smoke cigarettes and drink beers at half time.

https://i.redd.it/bckipyz73ba11.jpg

[Rolando]

I am fairly certain that most of them do use PED's to recover from injuries....at least. This would make sense to do given the amount of money involved. Outside of injuries, It is also likely that they keep themselves "topped up", meaning, that whatever the agreed upon max levels are, they and their trainers, make sure that they are always right up to the max allowable hormone levels.

In any case, I don't see evidence of anyone going nuts with this stuff. Maybe Dwight Howard back in his prime. But everyone else looks how you would expect very well trained professional athletes to look like.

[fourkicks44]

Everyone knows David Robinson got the guns from praying to the Lord Jesus.

When Hakeem slapped him in The WCF he turned the other cheek.

Then he told Rodman too do the same and his soul would be saved.

Rodman said " Fu#k that, I'm a killer"

The rest is history.....

[oldtimer28]

Players in the 80s did not weight train seriously at all. Only very few of them did (like D.Robinson, who was known for his stellar physique). A great many players in the 80s used to smoke cigarettes and drink beers at half time.

https://i.redd.it/bckipyz73ba11.jpg

False except DROB.

Difficult to know but I doubt athletes smoked and drank at halftime.

Divac was a known smoker but your post distorts the reality- unless you provide proof

[eliteballer]

Will Lebron be banned from the hall :eek:

[eliteballer]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CF8OkjanSZP/

[eliteballer]

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fe3205ae8496e04a51776986e265f4bcd7b6a7dd/0_52_3224_1933/master/3224.jpg?width=1200&height=900&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2020/08/23/c8bd2751-e627-4440-907a-625183ff4958/thumbnail/1200x675/3f90bcaa8d73b27c042ad4b2a3d54e78/lebronjames-082220.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/06/10/us/politics/10lebron-voters/10lebron-voters-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg

https://victoryjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/lebronjames.jpeg

[eliteballer]

https://vault.si.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTY5MTE4MDY1MzExODE5MjI3/lebronjames-vault-1280jpg.jpg



https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180701213413-lebron-james-game-7-052718-super-169.jpg







:biggums::coleman::kobe:

[KissMySwag]

This entire discussion is never gonna be easy to talk about. You can look at elite ballers pics of Lebron and yeah of course he got bigger the same way you can look at giannis pics and he exploded as well. But we’re looking at pictures years apart with the best athletic trainers, sports scientists, doctors etc. of course the players are gonna be more fit. Look at someone like jj reddick for example nobody’s gonna say he’s on roids right? Now compare his duke pictures to his pelicans pictures. Obviously he’s in much better shape and bigger now than he was back in college. These players have the best trainers, the best doctors, they have everything. If you don’t expect them to be in peak shape and look amazing idk what to tell you guys.

[eliteballer]

It was before Atlanta went on their 20-game win streak, so it wasn't really deemed a big game yet. And they thought LeBron was going to play, and LeBron just decided, 'I'm not gonna play.' Like, at the last minute, he told them, 'I'm not playing.' Didn't even come out to the bench, just sat in the back, didn't come out."

Windhorst says the Cavaliers' brass was stunned.

"[James] had sort of just like waved a bit of a white flag there. He just didn't feel like playing. He had never done that ever before. He had always just played through it. And so it was after that game, [the Cavaliers] said, 'Alright, take your two weeks off,' because he had reached a very low point."


"[James] had sort of just like waved a bit of a white flag there. He just didn't feel like playing. He had never done that ever before. He had always just played through it. And so it was after that game, [the Cavaliers] said, 'Alright, take your two weeks off,' because he had reached a very low point."

Nobody is quite sure why James' two-week break turned around his season. He does seem healthier and more explosive. If it was just fatigue and simple aches that he was dealing with, then two weeks may have been enough to revitalize him.

https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-2-week-break-turned-his-season-around-2015-4#:~:text=After%20suddenly%20deciding%20not%20to,h ad%20been%20moping%20for%20weeks.

Anyone figure this out?

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raPWRhnjEOc

[eliteballer]

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/resizer/m2zLwjx4WkPRtbLgn9W0kR4TjBU=/1200x0/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/AHCKS3GSMVHG3OGIFPUL26F5HM.jpg

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2019/1226/r645729_1296x729_16-9.jpg

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200716103332/lebron-james-tired.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://cdn-wp.thesportsrush.com/2020/08/LeBron-James-personal-trainer.jpg

https://nbart.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/lebron-james-cavs-zumasportsworld334706-20000210-zaf-f31.jpg

https://lakersdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/USATSI_14098052-e1582752407880.jpg

https://kdtodc.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/espn_pow_dec28_03.jpg?w=833&h=0&crop=1
https://cdn1.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/768x768/public/images/methode/2018/05/28/14d512ea-6227-11e8-82ea-2acc56ad2bf7_1280x720_113701.JPG?itok=EudPVCm8

[eliteballer]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/QiOEwMMcbfQA6tvbYkex0A--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MzgwO2g9NTAwO2lsPX BsYW5l/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Yahoo/ept_sports_nba_experts-575606499-1255960053.jpg

https://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/LeBron+James+Orlando+Magic+v+Cleveland+Cavaliers+i CV3WkaL3MTl.jpg


LeBron James has benign growth removed from jaw

https://www.oregonlive.com/nba/2009/06/lebron_james_has_benign_growth.html#:~:text=(AP)%2 0%2D%2D%20Cavaliers%20star%20LeBron,the%20Clevelan d%20Clinic%20on%20Tuesday.&text=He%20averaged%2038.5%20points%2C%208.3,who%20 won%20in%20six%20games.

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYTrAvrpnI

[eliteballer]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/01/244384CE00000578-0-image-a-3_1420136265155.jpg

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DPB1KH/new-york-usa-10th-jan-2014-mirza-teletovic-back-of-brooklyn-nets-fouls-DPB1KH.jpg

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/z6vv0adwnboorgu0xqup.jpg

https://www.nba.com/dam/assets/121229210620-lebron-james-kevin-durant-xmas.1200x672.jpg

[ncrizzle]

Wouldnt mind if Morant got on a lil bit of that dope....

[Ainosterhaspie]

I dont get what eliteballer thinks is the point of these pics. Yes LeBron is a big, dude, but it doesnt look like unnatural bulk to me. It fits his frame. So what if he's a big dude. They exist without PED enhancement.

Not even saying he's not. Who knows. They're been enough athletes of all sports caught at some point, so its not hard to belive NBA guys including James could be on something, but this pictures are not remotely close to convincing.

Like is eliteballer some scrawny 105 pound dude who can't put on muscle and just assumes anyone who can is on something?

[eliteballer]

Anyone figure out what LeRoids on?

[eliteballer]

Did Bill Simmons Hint That LeBron James Took A Steroid Vacation?

Simmons met fan backlash when he floated the idea that LeBron wasn’t the “same player” early in the 2015 season. He responded as such:

“Like it was our fault that LeBron was playing below the rim for the first two months and the Cavs were a complete mess. I’m sorry for pointing that out everybody!”

After NBA beat writer Zach Lowe struggled to politely categorize LeBron’s two-week refresher vacation to Miami in January, Simmons pushed his stance once again:

Bill Simmons: Uh…I have a couple titles for that but I’m not gonna say.

Zach Lowe: I’m not going anywhere near where you’re going.

Bill Simmons: I’m not going anywhere either!

He later elaborated, saying:

“LeBron James…looked like he was entering another phase of his career. He’s got a lot of miles on him. Looked different in how he was playing. Went away for two weeks, came back. He’s been lights out. [He] basically has been at 29 [points] a game, 6 [assists] and 6 [rebounds]. Fifty percent shooting. He looks like LeBron again.”



https://uproxx.com/dimemag/did-bill-s...roid-vacation/
http://bluegrasspreps.com/national-b...ns-298941.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...bill_alluding/
https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/...tion-71485040/


LeBatard: My Guess is LeBron James is ‘Doing Something

http://slicemiami.com/2016/06/08/le-...ron-james-hgh/[/


Here's the story behind the 2-week break that turned LeBron James' season around

Windhorst says that late in 2014, James had been moody and his body wasn't 100%. After suddenly deciding not to play in a game against the Hawks, the Cavs gave him take two weeks off to rest, from which he returned healthy and in a better mood, seemingly revitalized by some midseason trades.

"[James] had sort of just like waved a bit of a white flag there. He just didn't feel like playing. He had never done that ever before. He had always just played through it. And so it was after that game, [the Cavaliers] said, 'Alright, take your two weeks off,' because he had reached a very low point."

Nobody is quite sure why James' two-week break turned around his season. He does seem healthier and more explosive. If it was just fatigue and simple aches that he was dealing with, then two weeks may have been enough to revitalize him.

https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-2-week-break-turned-his-season-around-2015-4


LeBron James Briefly Went To Miami Before Start Of Finals

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-lebron-james-udonis-haslem-s20180614-story.html



The Only Thing Stephen A Smith and Max Kellerman Can Agree On



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Ie5nmM1Xw&t=2m05s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gild8BBvrkA&t=11m45s



Simmons: Naive To Think NBA Has No Players On PEDs

During a podcast on Monday, ESPN NBA analyst Bill Simmons suggested that the lessons from baseball's performance enhancing drug problems of the past two decades need to be studied by those involved in basketball.

"The retroactive thing is really funny to me," said Simmons. "It does seem like there is this weird residual guilt, especially with the writers: 'We didn't know. I should have known. How did we not know?'

"Why aren't we asking that now with the other sports? What about basketball? Go on YouTube and watch a basketball game from 1977 and see what the guys look like. You really think there are no PED guys in the NBA right now? You've got to be kidding me.

"It's just funny to me. If we end up repeating this whole cycle with the NBA. Everybody is going to be like, 'How did we not know?' It's the same thing we were going through with baseball in the late nineties."


https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/231496/simmons-naive-to-think-nba-has-no-players-on-peds


Daring to Ask the PED Question

http://grantland.com/features/daring-ask-ped-question



Adam Silver: NBA is more concerned about HGH use than marijuana

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2014/11/24/adam-silver-nba-is-more-concerned-about-hgh-use-than-marijuana/?utm_term=.9ee7f921c5fc


NBA, NBPA to add HGH testing into anti-drug program

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/04/16/nba-and-nbpa-to-introduce-hgh-blood-testing


Why there’s never been a PED scandal in the NBA

https://www.complex.com/sports/2018/01/why-theres-never-been-a-ped-scandal-in-the-nba


Tell me the NBA has no Doping

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50443/tell-me-the-nba-has-no-doping


Three NBA Doping Myths

http://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/54045/three-nba-doping-myths

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ougMITHKVW8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ItkLiqzPo4



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-4pQZlXBMQ

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaKILPV78DU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQDEkMYyuII


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYTrAvrpnI

[Axe]

So it was effective enough to prolong his longevity?

[eliteballer]

LeRoid natty doe?

[light]

It's hard to say exactly what's going on with the NBA in this regard. All we have to go on are the announced test results and punishments.

But there was a time when NBA players were not tested at all - basically every decade before the 00's. You could essentially do whatever you wanted. Cocaine was also a major problem in the league for about 15 years in the 70's and 80's.

[2ball]

https://dreallday.com/?attachment_id=23915

[Jasper]

I have heard that roids actually make you slower as well as taking your quickness away.
If they use it in the off season to help recover .. that is one thing , but during regular season it would be a disaster.

[eliteballer]

First comment :roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBf3xU6bGHs

[Bronbron23]

I have heard that roids actually make you slower as well as taking your quickness away.
If they use it in the off season to help recover .. that is one thing , but during regular season it would be a disaster.

You heard wrong buddy. I train with guys on gear and the results are insane. I get why some athletes take it. It gives you a crazy advantage over anyone not taking it.

[Jasper]

You heard wrong buddy. I train with guys on gear and the results are insane. I get why some athletes take it. It gives you a crazy advantage over anyone not taking it.

are you referring to making them faster ?? or quickness ??

[eliteballer]

https://sa.kapamilya.com/absnews/abscbnnews/media/2020/news/11/21/montrezl-harrell.jpg

[eliteballer]

Natty doe..

[eliteballer]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/VlnZZyyGhQc0bMOu6Jh8Hw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTYzOC40/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/U4U47YISu7u0xa3mW0V7vw--~B/aD0yNjYwO3c9NDAwMDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/sixers_wire_usa_today_sports_articles_847/7f489052fac6da2852955ef670624546

[eliteballer]

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2020/10/01/d2793ffd-8f2d-4b8a-af9c-1fee77e8c1ee/thumbnail/1200x675/20088fce03d57e158483fca26b236a4a/lebron-2.jpg

[AirBonner]

Lol

[TheGoatest]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/9c/44/359c44b519db65cf5b5ab3379637139d.jpg

https://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/032/277/001175714_display_image.jpg?1308606780

https://www.sportscasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Michael-Jordan-e1431634954201.jpg

https://static.highsnobiety.com/thumbor/U-ZaOkzKWpj1lVnVlJS4md37rDY=/960x576/static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/15210930/michael-jordan-documentary-netflix-000.jpg

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200519125907/MJ-4.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2582,w_3200/https%3A%2F%2Flakeshowlife.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2020%2F04%2F1200202212.jpeg

[eliteballer]

https://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/010816_wiglbj.jpg

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2020/05/28/88f0b896-7b13-44fc-9845-9d42b2299daf/thumbnail/1200x675/0229f26882ff805cced27a032eeaf272/carmelolebron-052720.jpg

https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/631084/carmelo-anthony-left-lebron-james.jpg

https://stmedia.startribune.com/images/jason.gonzalez_1486049063_LeBronWIGGINS.JPG

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmB6YCUzgMU

[eliteballer]

https://twitter.com/Money23Green/status/1357556310875779072

[eliteballer]

https://twitter.com/Money23Green/status/1357556310875779072

:milton

[Vino24]

https://www.bostonherald.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/2009/02/25/d7328e5839_kobe_02252009.jpg?w=535
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT20rsvv4vcSW6TtnwEfusU0Fd1tTsB_ fcdyA&usqp=CAU
http://dreallday.com/?attachment_id=23915

[TheGoatest]

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2020/05/11103910/GettyImages-823881644-1-scaled-e1589207977395-1024x526.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/0c/30/4a0c30facb401103aea48f8c6a70f948.jpg

https://www.thesportsloop.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/20181204005432_d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e_4. jpeg

https://www.health-yogi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/IMG_20200226_085423-1024x1004.jpg

https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2015/03/sw03_scooptopjordan_23_383781-e1427550277521.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

[eliteballer]

Posting pics of Kobe and MJ only makes it more apparent how juiced up LeRoid is:oldlol:


https://images.spot.im/v1/production/wravgecqcunpmz5infiv

https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/client/q_glossy,ret_img/https://nbanewsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/nbanewsnow.comwww.talkbasket.netEuZis1J-e232c3531f89c948ac955a0c141386a27b5ca249-678x381.jpeg

[eliteballer]

https://cavsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Cavs-news-What-21-year-old-LeBron-James-was-really-like-per-Larry-Hughes.jpg

[ZionDunks]

LeBron has been on steroids for a long time

[Lebowski]

NBA players has been on steroids for a long time

More correct

[TheGoatest]

https://rushcuttershealth.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/michael-jordan.jpg

https://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/472/581/320669_original.jpg?1288278065

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f0/42/30/f042306818c68b429a056105e095bc93.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/2a/46/d0/2a46d0d8e2aa9dd9c45e2e170a657ee2.jpg

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/michael-jordan-of-the-chicago-bulls-works-out-circa-1991-note-to-user-picture-id818432230?s=594x594

[eliteballer]

https://twitter.com/Money23Green/status/1357556310875779072

Anyone figure this out?

https://sa.kapamilya.com/absnews/abscbnnews/media/2020/news/11/21/montrezl-harrell.jpg

[TheGoatest]

https://sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/air-jordan-xx3-north-carolina-04.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/10/11/17/000DCAB300000258-0-image-a-17_1539276304418.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200306212407/lebron-james-best-stories-twojpg.jpg





https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2000,w_3000/https%3A%2F%2Fairalamo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F01%2F909447398-cleveland-cavaliers-v-san-antonio-spurs.jpg.jpg

[TheGoatest]

https://images2.imagebam.com/82/5b/04/03e3b01372794265.png

[eliteballer]

Shook:roll:

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200306212407/lebron-james-best-stories-twojpg.jpg





https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2000,w_3000/https%3A%2F%2Fairalamo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F01%2F909447398-cleveland-cavaliers-v-san-antonio-spurs.jpg.jpg

:eek:

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200306212407/lebron-james-best-stories-twojpg.jpg





https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2000,w_3000/https%3A%2F%2Fairalamo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F01%2F909447398-cleveland-cavaliers-v-san-antonio-spurs.jpg.jpg

What.The.

[Druckenmiller]

When baseball had its survey testing “accidentally” released that led to an actual testing policy being implemented, there were more pitchers than hitters who tested positive — many of whom looked like they had never touched a weight in their life

There is some correlation actually with that and basketball as steroids help build back the muscle fibers that have been broken down. It’s why pitchers start every five days. It takes time to build back the muscles.

There is a false assumption that the players most likely to use them look like Mark McGwire or Anthony Mason, but the reality is that the players most likely to use them are older and looking to “get their legs back.”

Who that might apply to specifically in the NBA is mostly speculation but I would be shocked if there isn’t a pretty large percentage of players over the age of 30 or so using. The money is too great not to be.

[eliteballer]

When baseball had its survey testing “accidentally” released that led to an actual testing policy being implemented, there were more pitchers than hitters who tested positive — many of whom looked like they had never touched a weight in their life

There is some correlation actually with that and basketball as steroids help build back the muscle fibers that have been broken down. It’s why pitchers start every five days. It takes time to build back the muscles.

There is a false assumption that the players most likely to use them look like Mark McGwire or Anthony Mason, but the reality is that the players most likely to use them are older and looking to “get their legs back.”

Who that might apply to specifically in the NBA is mostly speculation but I would be shocked if there isn’t a pretty large percentage of players over the age of 30 or so using. The money is too great not to be.

Indeed.

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200306212407/lebron-james-best-stories-twojpg.jpg





https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/c_fill,g_auto,f_auto,h_2000,w_3000/https%3A%2F%2Fairalamo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F01%2F909447398-cleveland-cavaliers-v-san-antonio-spurs.jpg.jpg

:eek:

[eliteballer]

Natty doe.

[Shooter]

https://sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/air-jordan-xx3-north-carolina-04.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/10/11/17/000DCAB300000258-0-image-a-17_1539276304418.jpg

Damn

[eliteballer]

https://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/homes/2020051990068/the-last-dance-michael-jordan-home-photos/0-431-723/michael-jordan-t.jpg










https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2020/01/usatsi_13930302_168382939_lowres-e1579456536295.jpg


https://sa.kapamilya.com/absnews/abscbnnews/media/2020/news/11/21/montrezl-harrell.jpg

https://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/LeBron+James+Orlando+Magic+v+Cleveland+Cavaliers+i CV3WkaL3MTl.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/UkLrKr3KVvmKb9pLowD34pgjRlg=/0x0:1000x667/1200x800/filters:focal(0x0:1000x667)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/photo_images/2971465/GYI0065063672.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPGzPayBsQ3/

[eliteballer]

https://www.yardbarker.com/media/b/7/b7a9f6fedb6161fe63067f6e1eff720d262140e2/thumb_16x9/lebron-james-on-lead-lakers-anthony-davis.jpg?v=1

[eliteballer]

https://www.yardbarker.com/media/b/7/b7a9f6fedb6161fe63067f6e1eff720d262140e2/thumb_16x9/lebron-james-on-lead-lakers-anthony-davis.jpg?v=1

:eek:

[miggyme1]

Because basketball is the one sport that STRENGTH doesn’t necessarily make u better. If u cant shoot,pass,rebound,defend....you are USELESS. Im not saying there arent any players using steroids in the Nba but i can guarantee u it isnt the top stars because again they wont benefit from it. Is taking steroids going to increase currys three point percentage??? Nope! Is taking steroids gonna to help ben simmons free throw percentage? Nope! Is it going to make westbrook a better passer? Nope!

[eliteballer]

Don’t be a dope, Lance Armstrong took PEDS.

[eliteballer]

https://phantom-marca.unidadeditorial.es/a67cf72497662fdffce782b23d76471b/resize/1320/f/jpg/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2021/05/31/16224864049553.jpg

[eliteballer]

:mad:

[Pip' N Rodman]

:mad:

What was going on in Germany?

[eliteballer]

:mad:

[eliteballer]

:mad:

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200306212407/lebron-james-best-stories-twojpg.jpg


https://www.yardbarker.com/media/b/7/b7a9f6fedb6161fe63067f6e1eff720d262140e2/thumb_16x9/lebron-james-on-lead-lakers-anthony-davis.jpg?v=1

[eliteballer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquisitr.com/4240343/lebron-james-is-on-steroids-or-peds-influential-sports-anchor-claims/amp

[steezy]

Every elite athlete in every sport takes steroids. GSP may be the sole exception, literally can't think of anyone else

[plowking]

Imagine posting that many pictures to prove a point. Even if he is on steroids, or not, you're still the biggest loser in all this spending this much time on it.

[SATAN]

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3547828&userid=141807

:roll:

[eliteballer]

Imagine posting that many pictures to prove a point. Even if he is on steroids, or not, you're still the biggest loser in all this spending this much time on it.

Nice to see you’ve gone from denying it to admitting it..

[eliteballer]

:mad:

[eliteballer]

https://image-cdn.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/20200306212407/lebron-james-best-stories-twojpg.jpg


https://www.yardbarker.com/media/b/7/b7a9f6fedb6161fe63067f6e1eff720d262140e2/thumb_16x9/lebron-james-on-lead-lakers-anthony-davis.jpg?v=1

:eek:

[000]

Everyone is on steroids. Even rashard lewis and hedo turkoglu were

[eliteballer]

Everyone is on steroids. Even rashard lewis and hedo turkoglu were

Not everyone, don’t be stupid.

[000]

Not everyone, don’t be stupid.
Yes everyone, dont be naive

[eliteballer]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/08/8e/03/088e030b8ca4629be0bfaab18e67865b.jpg


https://www.outkick.com/wp-content/uploads/GettyImages-1200850325-e1619100054724.jpg


https://cdn-wp.thesportsrush.com/2020/08/LeBron-James-personal-trainer.jpg


https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/AP_18071070004244-FB.jpg


https://files.prokerala.com/news/photos/imgs/800/new-york-jan-11-2014-xinhua-ians-mirza-teletovic-143724.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2014/0416/dm_140416_COM_NBA_Analysis_Penn_Heat_Touch_Screen/dm_140416_COM_NBA_Analysis_Penn_Heat_Touch_Screen. jpg?w=1600

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_720,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/Miami-Heat-v-San-Antonio-Spurs---Game-Three-b8de5065f4cec9b8eca6974e5d1e0ef0.jpg

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-TK218_0617he_G_20120617204109.jpg

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/A6XySCi0bX8cFPQ4Hs7fNQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcwMC44NzU7Y2Y9d2 VicA--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/SpKn7uWoiwmxAuqLtmPBZQ--~B/aD0xODY5O3c9MjU2MDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/lebron_wire_usa_today_sports_articles_234/d16f72e431b33c1085fba140493da755

[eliteballer]

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/094ba8ba2b91c2e27c28c3e38dfd234b86fda0d2/c=0-0-4281-2419/local/-/media/2018/02/18/USATODAY/USATODAY/636545508900254190-USATSI-10554877.jpg

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2019/1226/r645729_1296x729_16-9.jpg

https://cavaliersnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Screen-Shot-2015-11-11-at-6.37.48-PM-copy-300x195@2x.jpg

https://a.espncdn.com/photo/2018/1121/r466907_1296x729_16-9.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Sports/AP_lebron_james_ml_150226_12x5_992.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/711x516/https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/dam/imageserve/a5dd1ed0958f431194970ae7b1dbf5ea/960x0.jpg

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Sports/lebron-kobe-mo_hpMain_20200127-223322_16x9_1600.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dZ6ixe9hsL0cGlV6gViE-rJX234=/1400x1400/filters:format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22236265/AP21013248193582.jpg

https://cavsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Getty-Images-1.jpg

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2016/06/11/9dacda93-3f6e-4bb7-abdf-96dc26dbb7ee/thumbnail/1200x675/0f0c1d133557b2de02f14e9c5fa36dda/lbjdray.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://zileisreal.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/lebron-2003-dribble-vert-rhjpg-d18520374791b708.jpg

https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTY4MDI4NzY0OTc0OTQ5NzYw/lebron-james-lakers-mag-inlinejpg.jpg

https://media.nbclosangeles.com/2019/09/LeBron-and-AD.png

https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1191555427/960x0.jpg

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2Fhypebeast.com%2Fimage%2F2019%2F03%2F lebron-james-out-for-rest-of-season-due-to-injury-001.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://cdn.chatsports.com/cache/ed/0e/ed0e18d02662d9c13ffe4bdab5492193-original.jpg

https://sircharlesincharge.com/files/2015/10/lebron-james-nba-preseason-atlanta-hawks-cleveland-cavaliers1.jpg

https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi/3321417469927/2014/1/43bd9a8bca3f4bf57810b0f13e187f69/LeBron-James-Blake-Griffin-are-NBA-Players-of-the-Week.jpg

https://hoopshabit.com/files/2014/04/lebron-james-blake-griffin-nba-miami-heat-los-angeles-clippers.jpg

https://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/LeBron-James-Blake-Griffin.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DrfjRJEkrJE/maxresdefault.jpg

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/02/26/USAT/f60ea388-6e2d-4116-a51e-03e277e27bc1-USATSI_14098052.jpg

https://www.si.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_aut o:good%2Cw_1200/MTY4MTk5MjY5ODAxODYzMDY5/140612140737-kawhi-leonard-lebron-james-single-image-cutjpg.jpg

https://s.abcnews.com/images/GMA/191015_gma_holmes_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

https://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/51513_HeatBulls.jpg

[Shogon]

You need some serious therapy and the mods should be ashamed of themselves... and this is coming from someone that believes LeBron is a juicer.

Your life must be complete and utter shit. I am sorry.

[eliteballer]

You need some serious therapy and the mods should be ashamed of themselves... and this is coming from someone that believes LeBron is a juicer.

Your life must be complete and utter shit. I am sorry.

Glad to know your no longer in denial :D

[Shogon]

Glad to know your no longer in denial :D

I legitimately don't think I've ever believed that LeBron was 100% clean, and if I did think this, I thought it super early on in his career... so maybe like 15 years ago? lol.

There is no "no longer in denial" going on here. You are making arguments with yourself. I want you to show me a quote where I said that LeBron isn't on PEDs.

LeBron is juicing... and if he's not, I'd be shocked.

That being said? It's extremely clear that he was an athletic freak before he came into the league... unless you think he was doping at 14 and 15 years old, lmao...

Both statements are true. 1) LeBron is one of the biggest athletic freaks in NBA history. 2) He's a PED abuser.

[Shogon]

I see now. You must confuse "if it comes out that he's juicing" with "shogon thinks he isn't juicing." That's not what that means... it means that I don't think that it's ever coming out.

I'm sure the NBA knows and I'm sure the NBA turns their head the other way because a story of that magnitude would set the league back for a decade or two, despite the fact that a substantial number of NBA players are on PEDs... LeBron doing this specifically must not see the light of day.

I really really don't think that story ever comes out.

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akwGr21AZJ0

[Shogon]

Bump. We need at least three topics about this... daily.

[TheGoatest]

https://images2.imagebam.com/82/5b/04/03e3b01372794265.png

[eliteballer]

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2017/03/23/30f97b3d-e124-4f8f-a84a-aac44d398695/thumbnail/1200x675/00d5e556e42a69266984e44675e774b7/jokic-1400.jpg

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYTrAvrpnI

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmB6YCUzgMU

[eliteballer]

:mad:

[eliteballer]

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/566/181/hi-res-161398596-kobe-bryant-of-the-los-angeles-lakers-and-lebron-james_crop_north.jpg?1382358914&w=3072&h=2048

[eliteballer]

https://www.outkick.com/wp-content/uploads/GettyImages-1200850325-e1619100054724.jpg

https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/0hjahLOFoqihSXF4vVSSAzx8z1I=/1200x0/top/www.trbimg.com/img-5c19d6e6/turbine/ny-sports-lebron-james-carmelo-anthony-20181218

[eliteballer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ougMITHKVW8

[eliteballer]

Some good stuff coming tonight.

[hateraid]

If people think there is no testing in professional sports you don't have a clue.

[TheGoatest]

If people think there is no testing in professional sports you don't have a clue.

You'd think that a player who uses steroids wouldn't have chosen to play in any Olympics with their extensive testing, let alone 3 Olympics.
The irony is that there is way more testing today than back in the days of the players LeBron haters are stanning.

[TheGoatest]

https://media.bleacherreport.com/image/upload/v1620474089/qqqnskdpmi6ax4mxf0md.jpg

https://img.beckett.com/images/items_stock/185226/3158748/3158942/front.jpg

[Baller789]

You'd think that a player who uses steroids wouldn't have chosen to play in any Olympics with their extensive testing, let alone 3 Olympics.
The irony is that there is way more testing today than back in the days of the players LeBron haters are stanning.

You mean the testing which is always behind two steps of designer drugs?

[TheGoatest]

You mean the testing which is always behind two steps of designer drugs?

I mean testing as in attempt to catch the perpetrators, as opposed to the old days when zero damns were given.
Why was Lance Armstrong caught? The kajillions he made when he was at the top and one of the most popular athletes in the world weren't enough to pay for "untraceable designer drugs"?

[hateraid]

You'd think that a player who uses steroids wouldn't have chosen to play in any Olympics with their extensive testing, let alone 3 Olympics.
The irony is that there is way more testing today than back in the days of the players LeBron haters are stanning.

100%
I have to familiarize myself with doping rules since I run a supplement company. ALL professional sports test. We sponsored Joe Flacco when I was with Dymatize and he can even confirm that he'd get randomly tested even in the off season. The same goes for NBA players. There is no steroids in prefossional sports.

[hateraid]

You mean the testing which is always behind two steps of designer drugs?

Lance Armstrong took a drug that increases oxygen capacity. Something entirely different from steroids. It was a gray area product. At the time there was probably not enough information on the product to put on the banned substance list. And no, you cannot defeat IOC testing with how strict it is today. This is not the Ben Johnson 80's. You don't have a clue if you think you can.

[eliteballer]

100%
I have to familiarize myself with doping rules since I run a supplement company. ALL professional sports test. We sponsored Joe Flacco when I was with Dymatize and he can even confirm that he'd get randomly tested even in the off season. The same goes for NBA players. There is no steroids in prefossional sports.

No peds in professional sports? Your a colossal tool:roll:

[eliteballer]

Aren’t you the guy who worked for in the sports nutrition industry and was always schilling for their products.

[hateraid]

No peds in professional sports? Your a colossal tool:roll:

At the pro level no. You're a fool to believe it. I work with pro athletes. The get tested constantly

[hateraid]

Aren’t you the guy who worked for in the sports nutrition industry and was always schilling for their products.

Ah yes. The go to response for the ignorant. "GNC, derp derp derp"
So a keyboard warrior has more insight than a guy who's been in the industry for 25 years. I own my own Nutrtion company now. But thanks for noticing!

Keep using the shcill schtick. That really puts me in my place!

[eliteballer]

Ah yes. The go to response for the ignorant. "GNC, derp derp derp"
So a keyboard warrior has more insight than a guy who's been in the industry for 25 years. I own my own Nutrtion company now. But thanks for noticing!

Keep using the shcill schtick. That really puts me in my place!

The fact that you claim to be knowledgeable and sit there and say sports drug testing is adequate when professionals in that field of work say otherwise, shows how delusional you are in and of itself.

[hateraid]

The fact that you claim to be knowledgeable and sit there and say sports drug testing is adequate when professionals in that field of work say otherwise, shows how delusional you are in and of itself.

I know my credibility. I've been in the industry for 25 years and personally witnessed drug testing and IOC testing. You have minimal knowledge of basketball on a basketball forum as opposed to the sports testing world. I don't need your approval. :roll:
I've made millions now in this industry and own my own nutrition company. No bum with shit knowledge on a basketball forum is gonna change that.

So sit your ass down rookie. No need to talk out your ass more.

[hateraid]

Elitebum is probably gonna bring up Barry Bonds on Androstene to prove his weak ass case.

Go get it buddy! You know what you're talking about!

[Baller789]

I mean testing as in attempt to catch the perpetrators, as opposed to the old days when zero damns were given.
Why was Lance Armstrong caught? The kajillions he made when he was at the top and one of the most popular athletes in the world weren't enough to pay for "untraceable designer drugs"?

Back then? Yes.
Now, not so much.
I mean was Pacquiao who was constantly bombarded by Mayweather for PED allegations never tested positive. Heck Floyd himself got caught with an illegal IV, and nothing happened. :lol

[hateraid]

Back then? Yes.
Now, not so much.
I mean was Pacquiao who was constantly bombarded by Mayweather for PED allegations never tested positive. Heck Floyd himself got caught with an illegal IV, and nothing happened. :lol

Everything is speculative and subjective to what they are actually taking. Ephedra is on the banned substance list but people take pseudoephedrine in the common cold medication. Why hasn't there been any reported cases of steroid use in the NBA? In the age where IG and advantageous greedy people exist? Because there is no real cases. Kobe couldn't hide from a rape accusation. If athletes like Lebron were actually doing it they would have been outed a long time ago

[TheGoatest]

Back then? Yes.
Now, not so much.
I mean was Pacquiao who was constantly bombarded by Mayweather for PED allegations never tested positive. Heck Floyd himself got caught with an illegal IV, and nothing happened. :lol

"Back then"? First you said that designer drugs were "always" ahead of testing, now late 00s/early 10s is suddenly "back then", when they weren't ahead?
Move them goal posts some more.

[Baller789]

Everything is speculative and subjective to what they are actually taking. Ephedra is on the banned substance list but people take pseudoephedrine in the common cold medication. Why hasn't there been any reported cases of steroid use in the NBA? In the age where IG and advantageous greedy people exist? Because there is no real cases. Kobe couldn't hide from a rape accusation. If athletes like Lebron were actually doing it they would have been outed a long time ago

As you said, everything is speculative and subjective.
Perhaps the NBA has more to lose if their cash cow gets outed. And what organization wants their rep damaged by blatant use of illegal substances if they can keep it under wraps?

[eliteballer]

Everything is speculative and subjective to what they are actually taking. Ephedra is on the banned substance list but people take pseudoephedrine in the common cold medication. Why hasn't there been any reported cases of steroid use in the NBA? In the age where IG and advantageous greedy people exist? Because there is no real cases. Kobe couldn't hide from a rape accusation. If athletes like Lebron were actually doing it they would have been outed a long time ago

:roll: Tell that to Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong etc. who went decades without being exposed.

[hateraid]

:roll: Tell that to Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong etc. who went decades without being exposed.

Did I call it or what? :roll:

Do you even know what they took? Tell me without googling. How long ago was that? Where are all the cases in the NBA, NHLand NFL?
Sit your ass down boy. You did everything I predicted you'd do.

[hateraid]

As you said, everything is speculative and subjective.
Perhaps the NBA has more to lose if their cash cow gets outed. And what organization wants their rep damaged by blatant use of illegal substances if they can keep it under wraps?

The thing is you can't. Not.in this day and age when they can unfold it years after. I've been in the offices LITERALLY when athletes got tested. They can random test at ANYTIME. There's so many things that are gray area that I can validate won't make you inhuman. But can appear on a test result and later thrown out.

[Baller789]

The thing is you can't. Not.in this day and age when they can unfold it years after. I've been in the offices LITERALLY when athletes got tested. They can random test at ANYTIME. There's so many things that are gray area that I can validate won't make you inhuman. But can appear on a test result and later thrown out.

Oh yes you can. Doesn't matter if you believe that or not. And you being in the offices doesn't change that fact despite your hard headedness. You are not in the board meetings.

Money and influence trumps testing all day everyday. Perhaps the powers at be got an argument with the athlete and decided to pull the plug.

[hateraid]

Oh yes you can. Doesn't matter if you believe that or not. And you being in the offices doesn't change that fact despite your hard headedness. You are not in the board meetings.

Money and influence trumps testing all day everyday. Perhaps the powers at be got an argument with the athlete and decided to pull the plug.

Are you speculating or speaking from experience? Because I sure ain't speculating. I can talk to trainers from pretty much any sports team and can confirm. You are just going by a hunch and what you read on the internet.
The funny thing about life is when you reveal the truth it's hard to accept when it's not their truth. Believe what you want. I know what I know. You're "theory" has no more validity than the existence of Big Foot

[hateraid]

It's funny. When we had to put an informed choice certification on out labels, major league sports trainers had invested because they had to keep their tested athletes clean. But what do I know? A random poster on ISH has definitely more knowledge and experience than I do :lol

[hateraid]

There's a cover up out there boys! But of the course the same logic does not apply to the reason Jordan retired!

[Baller789]

"Back then"? First you said that designer drugs were "always" ahead of testing, now late 00s/early 10s is suddenly "back then", when they weren't ahead?
Move them goal posts some more.

I meant way back then. You seem to resort to semantics when you have no argument.
Fact of the matter is you have no proper argument against my example.