Should Rondo's foul on Miller have been flagrant?

[jrcp3]

How is that not a Flagrant Foul regardless he went for the HEAD of Brad Miller, there was NO play for ball ......

It's doesn't make sense, Flagrant Foul is a Flagrant Foul anytime ......

NBA couldn't let Boston lose in the first round common now ..... Bull **** man!

[1~Gibson~1]

How is that not a Flagrant Foul regardless he went for the HEAD of Brad Miller, there was NO play for ball ......

It's doesn't make sense, Flagrant Foul is a Flagrant Foul anytime ......

NBA couldn't let Boston lose in the first round common now ..... Bull **** man!:lol

pun intended?

[ronron15]

homecourt advantage. i think its bull

[jason816]

wasn't there blood all over Brad Miller....?

it should have been a flagrant 1...

[Hotshoot]

yeah thats why they fouled out Ray, refs were doing everything they can to win it for the Bulls this series.

[TheGreatDeraj]

By the rulebook it is a technical. I'm glad it wasn't called though.

[OneMoreSucka]

wasn't there blood all over Brad Miller....?

it should have been a flagrant 1...
So because there's blood means it's intentional? Stupidest **** I've ever heard.

[bagelred]

I can't believe it. Didn't anybody see the brass knuckles Rondo had on his fingers? Ridiculous.....

[Showtime]

So because there's blood means it's intentional? Stupidest **** I've ever heard.
No, I think his point was the "excessive" contact excuse. Either way, Rondo had no chance at getting to his arm, and was just swiping at his face to stop him. That should have been a flagrant 1.

[bisk]

So because there's blood means it's intentional? Stupidest **** I've ever heard.

Alright, that blood argument by that guy doesn't make much sense.:lol
But come on dude, it was clearly more than a normal personal foul.
He slapped the dude across the face, with absolutely no intend for the ball.
TNT replay clearly showed it, the ball was a couple feet in front of Miller and Rajon just comes from the right and hit's his forearm against his face.

[04mzwach]

It didn't affect the shot and there was a little over 3 seconds left. I guess it might of been a flagrant, though Rondo seemed like he wasn't even looking at Miller when he got him in the face. I guess it could be a flagrant, but the outcome wouldn't of changed. Maybe another OT? Snooze. Paul was going to will his team to a win either way.

[wang4three]

I thought at most it was going to be a technical, kinda surprised they didn't call it.

[Kobe24]

I thought at most it was going to be a technical, kinda surprised they didn't call it.

Have they ever called a technical on a foul? It's either Flagrant or regular foul. Smarten up.

[burnsy87]

It didn't affect the shot and there was a little over 3 seconds left. I guess it might of been a flagrant, though Rondo seemed like he wasn't even looking at Miller when he got him in the face. I guess it could be a flagrant, but the outcome wouldn't of changed. Maybe another OT? Snooze. Paul was going to will his team to a win either way.

I bet you were saying the same thing when the bulls were down by 3 in the first OT Sunday... How can you just say "they were going to win". The bulls played flat last time and came out in the 2nd OT firing.

[jason816]

No, I think his point was the "excessive" contact excuse. Either way, Rondo had no chance at getting to his arm, and was just swiping at his face to stop him. That should have been a flagrant 1.

thank you for the understanding, that's exactly my point.

[Undisputed]

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Those officials called this game for Boston all night long. The NBA officials are so pathetic. It's makes me sick watching a game like that.

[wang4three]

Have they ever called a technical on a foul? It's either Flagrant or regular foul. Smarten up.


They have, you just haven't been watching basketball long enough.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

:roll: :roll:
It doesn't get any clearer than that. Those officials called this game for Boston all night long. The NBA officials are so pathetic and disgusting.:roll: :roll: :roll: Did you see the fouls they were calling on Ray Allen? :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Kobe24]

They have, you just haven't been watching basketball long enough.

Examples.

* Awaits*

[04mzwach]

I bet you were saying the same thing when the bulls were down by 3 in the first OT Sunday... How can you just say "they were going to win". The bulls played flat last time and came out in the 2nd OT firing.
Paul looked slow and was still hitting daggers in the 4th and OT. What Paul was doing wasn't even that great. The Bulls defense was broke and giving Paul way too much respect. Paul's last shot was kind of like "Oh, you're just going to let me take this? Are you scared to touch me or something? OK! SWIISHH." It was kind of funny.

[wang4three]

Examples.

* Awaits*

The only play I can see you making is the following:

"they wouldn't call the technical because it was late in the game and they did not want to decide the game".

Otherwise, you're just embarrassing yourself. So I'll give you the time to go ahead and copy and paste my quote.

[GiveItToBurrito]

I think that if Rondo were six inches taller, it might have been flagrant. That said, it seemed more like a desperate attempt to hit the ball than a real attempt at hitting Miller.

[Kobe24]

The only play I can see you making is the following:

"they wouldn't call the technical because it was late in the game and they did not want to decide the game".

Otherwise, you're just embarrassing yourself. So I'll give you the time to go ahead and copy and paste my quote.

Riiiiiight


You write a lot to say I don't have any examples because it has never happened. Typical case of an idiot talking out his ass.

[Allstar24]

It doesn't matter. Even if they made the technical free throw, Miller is a choker and he would miss both his free throws anyway. So they'd end up losing by one rather than two points.

[ConanRulesNBC]

He got slapped right across the face by Rondo. It was definitely a flagrant.

The Bulls need to quit being pu**ies out there and start knocking the Celtics on their asses.

[burnsy87]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Did you see the fouls they were calling on Ray Allen? :oldlol: :oldlol:

Did you see the phantom fouls on Davis' and 1's? Did you see how everytime Rondo touched the ball there was a foul called? Did you see Rose get his ARM blocked on a layup and there was a no call? At least Allens were "technically" fouls. These blown calls were blatant.

This was the last play of the game. For the win or the loss or the tie. I guarantee you that Rondo could have undercut miler, then kicked him in the face and there would have been a no call.

[stshawntaylor]

that was terrible. if i were miller, i woulda slapped rondo after the game. screw little-boy lookin rondouche and screw the celt-*****.

[OneMoreSucka]

Paul looked slow and was still hitting daggers in the 4th and OT. What Paul was doing wasn't even that great. The Bulls defense was broke and giving Paul way too much respect. Paul's last shot was kind of like "Oh, you're just going to let me take this? Are you scared to touch me or something? OK! SWIISHH." It was kind of funny.
Too much respect? If anything they weren't showing him ANY by actualing thinking they could check him with single coverage. Why Noah didn't double when he was behind the 3 point line in beyond me. You're better than that, Del Negro.

[GiveItToBurrito]

It doesn't matter. Even if they made the technical free throw, Miller is a choker and he would miss both his free throws anyway. So they'd end up losing by one rather than two points.

I kind of agree. Miller missing the shot was somewhat understandable, though, since he had a mouth full of blood.

[Babalu]

should have been a technical. He got all head and knocked a tooth out.

[stshawntaylor]

Di Cks!

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Did you see the phantom fouls on Davis' and 1's? Did you see how everytime Rondo touched the ball there was a foul called? Did you see Rose get his ARM blocked on a layup and there was a no call? At least Allens were "technically" fouls. These blown calls were blatant.

This was the last play of the game. For the win or the loss or the tie. I guarantee you that Rondo could have undercut miler, then kicked him in the face and there would have been a no call.:roll: You must have seen all that with your homer glasses on.

[04mzwach]

Too much respect? If anything they weren't showing him ANY by actualing thinking they could check him with single coverage. Why Noah didn't double when he was behind the 3 point line in beyond me. You're better than that, Del Negro.
That is what I meant I guess.

[bigkingsfan]

http://i43.tinypic.com/kajn0z.gif

[wang4three]

Riiiiiight


You write a lot to say I don't have any examples because it has never happened. Typical case of an idiot talking out his ass.

Have you never seen a technical in your life? Before the flagrant, everything was a technical--like I said you haven't watching basketball long enough. Regardless, the definition of the technical is purposely vague so that the ref can interpret it for the usage in the game. Obviously flagrant would have been far too excessive in the context of the game.

Look at any technical called in this league, it's the most ambiguous foul called in the league. I've seen refs used it for unsportsmanlike conduct to using it as a medium between a flagrant and a regular foul. But I mean, I guess you just don't watch enough basketball.

[EricForman]

ISH has no long term memory. Miller had to miss the second FT on purpose. So really what happened was he missed one free throw--after getting wacked in the head.

Suddenly he's a chump, he's a choker, he's a nobody. I hear Indian Guy on the other thread saying he'd rather have Gordon take a three with five guys on him than have Miller touch the ball. On here everyone acting like Miller is a scrub.

Please. Miller averaged 15 10 5 for nearly a whole season with the kings a few years back. he got game. he's no greg ostertag.

he missed one free throw. granted it was crucial, but ISH people are the best at making claims and judgments based on what just happened. Then the next day it's a new claim and judgment.

ISH after game 1, "OMG RAY ALLEN IS WASHED UP"

ISH after game 2 and 4 "OMG RAY ALLEN IS GOD"

Wade was "done" last year but now half the board thinks he's better than Lebron.

:confusedshrug:

[StroShow4]

The officiating in the second half of this game was horrendous in both directions. There were tons of BS calls made against both teams. I think that last play probably should have been a flagrant 1 based on the way they always call it. Rondo didn't make a play on the ball and just smacked Miller across the face. That's almost always called a flagrant.

[stshawntaylor]

how was that NOT flagrant?

[lilderrickrose]

yes. derrick rose got robbed.

[catzhernandez]

Brad should have said he couldn't go back in the game... And Anthony Roberson or Linton Johnson could have come in and been heroes.

:banghead:

[jason816]

ISH has no long term memory. Miller had to miss the second FT on purpose. So really what happened was he missed one free throw--after getting wacked in the head.

Suddenly he's a chump, he's a choker, he's a nobody. I hear Indian Guy on the other thread saying he'd rather have Gordon take a three with five guys on him than have Miller touch the ball. On here everyone acting like Miller is a scrub.

Please. Miller averaged 15 10 5 for nearly a whole season with the kings a few years back. he got game. he's no greg ostertag.

he missed one free throw. granted it was crucial, but ISH people are the best at making claims and judgments based on what just happened. Then the next day it's a new claim and judgment.

Just like after game 1, "OMG RAY ALLEN IS WASHED UP"

after game 2 and 4 "OMG RAY ALLEN IS GOD"

Just like how Wade was done last year but now half the board thinks he's better than Lebron.

:confusedshrug:

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
Post of the Year.

[MTing]

http://i43.tinypic.com/kajn0z.gif
I dont think Rondo intentionally tried to whack Brad in the head.



ISH has no long term memory. Miller had to miss the second FT on purpose. So really what happened was he missed one free throw--after getting wacked in the head.

Suddenly he's a chump, he's a choker, he's a nobody. I hear Indian Guy on the other thread saying he'd rather have Gordon take a three with five guys on him than have Miller touch the ball. On here everyone acting like Miller is a scrub.

Please. Miller averaged 15 10 5 for nearly a whole season with the kings a few years back. he got game. he's no greg ostertag.

he missed one free throw. granted it was crucial, but ISH people are the best at making claims and judgments based on what just happened. Then the next day it's a new claim and judgment.

Just like after game 1, "OMG RAY ALLEN IS WASHED UP"

after game 2 and 4 "OMG RAY ALLEN IS GOD"

Just like how Wade was done last year but now half the board thinks he's better than Lebron.

:confusedshrug:

Great post

[burnsy87]

:roll: You must have seen all that with your homer glasses on.

Clearly you were watching with your homer glasses on. I already admitted there were bad calls both ways, but the ones i mentioned in my last post were terrible calls. Go ahead SHOW me where rose touched davis on his second and 1.

And seriously just look at the video that was just posted. It is obvious that he purposely hit his face. There is no doubt int he world that this is a flagrant. I hope these refs NEVER officiate a playoff game again. If they want Boston to win THAT BAD then just say it at the beginning, and not even play the ****ing game.

[04mzwach]

ISH has no long term memory. Miller had to miss the second FT on purpose. So really what happened was he missed one free throw--after getting wacked in the head.

Suddenly he's a chump, he's a choker, he's a nobody. I hear Indian Guy on the other thread saying he'd rather have Gordon take a three with five guys on him than have Miller touch the ball. On here everyone acting like Miller is a scrub.

Please. Miller averaged 15 10 5 for nearly a whole season with the kings a few years back. he got game. he's no greg ostertag.

he missed one free throw. granted it was crucial, but ISH people are the best at making claims and judgments based on what just happened. Then the next day it's a new claim and judgment.

ISH after game 1, "OMG RAY ALLEN IS WASHED UP"

ISH after game 2 and 4 "OMG RAY ALLEN IS GOD"

Wade was "done" last year but now half the board thinks he's better than Lebron.

:confusedshrug:
Yes, a true olympian. Did you post this in the wrong thread? I like your stuff, but this is pretty random.

[burnsy87]

Brad should have said he couldn't go back in the game... And Anthony Roberson or Linton Johnson could have come in and been heroes.

:banghead:

That would have been hilarious....Was him picking the players to shoot a playoff rule or something? I remember earlier in the season someone getting hurt in another game and the best free throw shooter came in for him.

[stshawntaylor]

no it wasnt intentional he was just reaching for the ball that was only 4 feet away

[04mzwach]

oh, catzhernandez...nevermind. :banghead:

[MMM]

looked like a desperate attempt at the ball but he caught Miller in the face that has to be a very tough situation by the refs. Personally I don't think their was enough of a swiping action to warrant a flagrant foul.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Clearly you were watching with your homer glasses on. I already admitted there were bad calls both ways, but the ones i mentioned in my last post were terrible calls. Go ahead SHOW me where rose touched davis on his second and 1.

And seriously just look at the video that was just posted. It is obvious that he purposely hit his face. There is no doubt int he world that this is a flagrant. I hope these refs NEVER officiate a playoff game again. If they want Boston to win THAT BAD then just say it at the beginning, and not even play the ****ing game.Sorry, but I'm pretty sure 5 BS calls on Ray Allen, that ended up fouling him out of the game is way more significant that an and 1 call on BB. BTW, Go ahead and show me where Rondo touched Rose on his drive to the basket towards the end of regulation.

[burnsy87]

looked like a desperate attempt at the ball but he caught Miller in the face that has to be a very tough situation by the refs. Personally I don't think their was enough of a swiping action to warrant a flagrant foul.

Wouldn't a desperate attempt at the ball involve him moving his arm towards the ball...and not Brad Millers mouth?

Can Celtics fans just admit that it was a bull**** call and move on to the "Brad Miller would have missed the shots anyways" story?

See you in Chicago.

[04mzwach]

THE LEAGUE HAS THIS PLAY UNDER REVIEW aka WE AINT DOING **** BUT I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE BUYING IT. :lol

[04mzwach]

so what happens if they do say it was a flagrant? what are the results?

[hwliuLAP]

[QUOTE=EricForman]

Please. Miller averaged 15 10 5 for nearly a whole season with the kings a few years back. he got game. he's no greg ostertag.

QUOTE]


Yes, and that was a few years back, I highly doubt they brought in Miller besides for salary concern. He's been awful this series, and has often make me wonder why he's in the game besides his FT skills. I'm even more surprised when they set up plays for him as well.

He's been awful this series, and I really can't remember him doing much even in the regular season.

I don't blame him for missing the freethrow after getting hit, I blame for the coach to play him, I really think Chicago's coach has not been coaching well this series at all, and Gordon is bailing him out and making him look good by making ridiculous shots. Excessive time out calling and not even having a real set play for your players even coming out of a possession.

I blame the coach more than Miller, but lets not act as if Miller has been playing well, he was traded for a good reason.

[shrempf_on_rice]

That looks like a two-shot foul but at a different angle, it looked like he hooked him a little bit.


THE LEAGUE HAS THIS PLAY UNDER REVIEW aka WE AINT DOING **** BUT I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE BUYING IT. :lol

Nice!!

[MMM]

Wouldn't a desperate attempt at the ball involve him moving his arm towards the ball...and not Brad Millers mouth?

Can Celtics fans just admit that it was a bull**** call and move on to the "Brad Miller would have missed the shots anyways" story?

See you in Chicago.

Rondo has long arms but they are not that long it wasn't intentional or anything like that.

[burnsy87]

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure 5 BS calls on Ray Allen, that ended up fouling him out of the game is way more significant that an and 1 call on BB. BTW, Go ahead and show me where Rondo touched Rose on his drive to the basket towards the end of regulation.

Are you talking about the one where Rose went baseline and fell when Rondo was MOVING his feet while trying to cut him off? I hope not...because that was a blatant foul.

[bisk]

so what happens if they do say it was a flagrant? what are the results?

free throws and subsequent possession

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Are you talking about the one where Rose went baseline and fell when Rondo was MOVING his feet while trying to cut him off? I hope not...because that was a blatant foul. I honestly hope you're not that retarded, even Bulls fans in the GT admitted that wasn't a foul. Rose tried to create some BS contact.

[04mzwach]

free throws and subsequent possession
in game 6? explain...

[bisk]

in game 6? explain...

what?
They award the Bulls 2 free throws, and give them possession.

[04mzwach]

what?
They award the Bulls 2 free throws, and give them possession.
No, the league has the play under review. This means that the league is reviewing the play and are going to judge whether it was a flagrant or not. So I was wondering what that means for the Bulls if the league would rule it as a flagrant foul on Rondo.

[LosLakers]

what?
They award the Bulls 2 free throws, and give them possession.

He wants to know if after the league reviews the play and IF they call it a flagrant how does that change or help anything.

Edit: ^^ haha too slow. Ill shutup now.

[Kensta]

Rondo should be suspended next game imo.

[04mzwach]

Rondo should be suspended next game imo.
That doesn't sound crazy, but unfair.

[MMM]

Rondo should be suspended next game imo.

for hitting miller in the face by accident? if that was the new policy for the league people would be getting suspended left and right.

[bisk]

No, the league has the play under review. This means that the league is reviewing the play and are going to judge whether it was a flagrant or not. So I was wondering what that means for the Bulls if the league would rule it as a flagrant foul on Rondo.

ah alright, I thought you ment during the moment itself.:lol
Nah, now they'll probably just decide if he should get suspended or not.

[burnsy87]

I honestly hope you're not that retarded, even Bulls fans in the GT admitted that wasn't a foul. Rose tried to create some BS contact.

But Rondo touched him... you said he didn't... regardless, when rose lost hte ball it went off rondo out of bounds.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

But Rondo touched him... you said he didn't... regardless, when rose lost hte ball it went off rondo out of bounds. I'm not gonna argue with you. Honestly, I don't give a **** about your feelings, I hope you cry yourself to sleep tonight.

[burnsy87]

I'm not gonna argue with you. Honestly, I don't give a **** about your feelings, I hope you cry yourself to sleep tonight.


Na, won't be doing that. I have more important things to deal with. Have fun dreaming of rondo flagrants.

[Kensta]

for hitting miller in the face by accident? if that was the new policy for the league people would be getting suspended left and right.

Kobe got suspended every time he threw his arms out (tying to get the foul) hitting the guys face by accident. Even though it wasn't intentional (like Kobe's) I think he should get suspended.

[momo]

I have a hard time seeing the foul well in slo mo, I can see how the refs might not have seen it clearly.

[Juges8932]

Flagrant 1 would have been the proper call.

[Showtime]

For those that say it wasn't a flagrant:

If Pierce drove to the basket at the end of the game, and Salmons, with no chance at getting the ball, comes up behind PP and rakes him across the face, how would you feel? I bet you would want a flagrant too.

[kentatm]

should have been a flagrant 1.

does not matter what Rondo intended, he still swiped him in the face. What makes it look worse is he had zero shot of making a play on the ball.

[OneMoreSucka]

should have been a flagrant 1.

does not matter what Rondo intended, he still swiped him in the face. What makes it look worse is he had zero shot of making a play on the ball.
Yeah, it kind of does matter what Rondo intended since the rulebook says it has to be intentional.

[Showtime]

Yeah, it kind of does matter what Rondo intended since the rulebook says it has to be intentional.
Or excessive. It can be called excessive because there was no possible play on the ball and he still swiped his arm around at his face. Even if he didn't mean to hit him, he still did with a hard swing with no possible play on the ball.

[monkeypox]

I'm pretty sure the new rules say excessive contact to the head regardless of intent is a flagrant and warrants suspension. Like someone said before, Kobe got suspended twice for inadverdant elbows to peoples faces.

[Derka]

His eyes are clearly locked on the ball well ahead of Miller's face. Miller's wingspan prevent Rondo from getting to that ball. The play and the intent were for the ball, not for his head. Not a flagrant foul.

[reppy]

Any time you hit the head like that it's a flagrant foul. Intention is irrelevant. Refs don't want to "decide" the game but you can decide a game by refusing to make the right call. Do the Bulls win? There's still a very good chance they lose, but they could have won if the call was made correctly.

[Splitz77]

No cause he went for the ball..

Its playoff basketball.

Quit being *******.

A lil bit of blood doesnt mean a flagurant foul, expecially in play off basketball.

Everyone of you know playoff basketball is supposed to be agressive unless your team is losing, in that case, any lil touch is a foul..

Ya'll are *****es..

[reppy]

No cause he went for the ball..

Its playoff basketball.

Quit being *******.

A lil bit of blood doesnt mean a flagurant foul, expecially in play off basketball.

Everyone of you know playoff basketball is supposed to be agressive unless your team is losing, in that case, any lil touch is a foul..

Ya'll are *****es..

You know who thought it should have been a flagrant? Charles Barkley. Now call him a ***** and when you're done picking the shards of glass out of your face, let me know if you still feel the same way.

[NuggetsFan]

No cause he went for the ball..

Its playoff basketball.

Quit being *******.

A lil bit of blood doesnt mean a flagurant foul, expecially in play off basketball.

Everyone of you know playoff basketball is supposed to be agressive unless your team is losing, in that case, any lil touch is a foul..

Ya'll are *****es..


So because it's playoff basketball, then it's alright to go for the head and not the ball weather it was an purpose or not(didn't look like it). I think it should have be a flagrant foul and that's got to hurt the Bulls.


Don't think Rondo's going to get suspended tho.

[Samurai Swoosh]

His eyes are clearly locked on the ball well ahead of Miller's face. Miller's wingspan prevent Rondo from getting to that ball. The play and the intent were for the ball, not for his head. Not a flagrant foul.
Yet after the game he conceited the fact that yes since he couldn't get at the ball (as Charles Barkely said, he wasn't even close to making a play on it) Rondo admittedly went to foul the larger offensive player in order to keep him from getting an easy basket.

Thus,

Flagarant Foul

[Showtime]

His eyes are clearly locked on the ball well ahead of Miller's face. Miller's wingspan prevent Rondo from getting to that ball. The play and the intent were for the ball, not for his head. Not a flagrant foul.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2955381&postcount=73

[RoodyPooUS]

Rondo is not retarded, he knew what he was doing. He had no shot at the ball.

Also if you look carefully, after he hits Miller's face, he still follows through which led to pulling his face back and taking out a tooth.

[jjayfive]

by NBA rules, YES... but it i was glad it wasn't called considering all these ticky tack calls...... i've seen worse

[monkeypox]

The real question is, which Celtic should the Bull rake across the face in the next game. I say Rondo.

[Thom.Yorke]

No cause he went for the ball..

Its playoff basketball.

Quit being *******.

A lil bit of blood doesnt mean a flagurant foul, expecially in play off basketball.

Everyone of you know playoff basketball is supposed to be agressive unless your team is losing, in that case, any lil touch is a foul..

Ya'll are *****es..


lets flip the switch.

Miller hits rondo in the face and draws blood and almost a tooth? you know damn right he would have gotten a flagrant foul because he's smaller. and you know you would be *****in about it right here.

[shrempf_on_rice]

by NBA rules, YES... but it i was glad it wasn't called considering all these ticky tack calls...... i've seen worse


That's the point, if the refs are going to award two FTs for ticky tack fouls then this falls into flagrant category.

[Guy10]

Stop crying. Ray Allen fouled out on what should have been either a no call or a double technical. Ben Gordon got three free throws to tie the game on a play where he stepped out of bounds prior to the shot.

:violin: to the Bulls. What do you care anyway. Whoever wins this round will get eliminated by the Magic. Even if they don't, the Cavs will steamroll both the bulls and this depleted Celtics team anyway in the ECF. In other words, this series is meaningless.

[burnsy87]

His eyes are clearly locked on the ball well ahead of Miller's face. Miller's wingspan prevent Rondo from getting to that ball. The play and the intent were for the ball, not for his head. Not a flagrant foul.


Will you idiots stop saying he went for the ball? The ball was at least 3 feet away from where his hand was. He was BEHIND THE PLAY. He came in late to help, and INTENTIONALLY fouled miller hard. It absolutely BLOWS MY MIND how Celtics fans can be so ignorant. If he was going for the damn ball he would have at least hit millers arm...not his face... morons.

[burnsy87]

Stop crying. Ray Allen fouled out on what should have been either a no call or a double technical. Ben Gordon got three free throws to tie the game on a play where he stepped out of bounds prior to the shot.

:violin: to the Bulls. What do you care anyway. Whoever wins this round will get eliminated by the Magic. Even if they don't, the Cavs will steamroll both the bulls and this depleted Celtics team anyway in the ECF. In other words, this series is meaningless.

Yeah because getting experience for an extremely young bulls team is absolutely worthless. Why even play games? By the way...was there ever an angle that actually showed Gordon out of bounds? there is no way you can definitively say he stepped out from the front angle...

[oh the horror]

by NBA rules, YES... but it i was glad it wasn't called considering all these ticky tack calls...... i've seen worse


Yep. And as basketball fans, I cant understand how anyone here would literally expect a ref to make that type of call, at the end of a game. Sorry children, but its never going to happen.


He got the foul, and he did not make his free throw.


Honestly the era of the ticky tack fan is beginning to get on my nerves.

[PP34Deuce]

Celtic fan here....

It could be called a flagrant for the fact that he tried to foul. I understand how some people view it. either way, you let the players play in that final 5 seconds. I also think refs neutralize calls.

Bulls fan and boston haters keep pointing that out, but they forget Brad Miller is a veteran who is sneaky dirty.

Ray allen driving to basket( or was it rondo?) and slipping his foot out causing a trip.

Ray allen fighting through a screen and miller blatantly holding him.

At the end of regulation he didnt get the call because he was being slightly dirty the whole time.

The Rose turnover was a turnover ok. ROndo did not foul him, Rose was not able to get past him, slipped(his foot slipped forward with body lean) and tried to throw his body in as a desperate attempt.

GLen davis and Perkins were constantly beat up in the post no one is complaining for calls for them/

[Splitz77]

lets flip the switch.

Miller hits rondo in the face and draws blood and almost a tooth? you know damn right he would have gotten a flagrant foul because he's smaller. and you know you would be *****in about it right here.

Rondo is the smaller player, so thus Rondo would have went flying, which honestly would have ended up as a flagurant foul. But if Rondo landed on his feet and didnt show much emotion to it exactly how Miller did and it was at the end of a game i doubt they would call a flagurant foul, and i would not disagree with teh call.

[burnsy87]

Rondo is the smaller player, so thus Rondo would have went flying, which honestly would have ended up as a flagurant foul. But if Rondo landed on his feet and didnt show much emotion to it exactly how Miller did and it was at the end of a game i doubt they would call a flagurant foul, and i would not disagree with teh call.

Miller couldnt show emotion because he was too busy finding his tooth. The refs watched the replay of it, they know exactly what happened. I could understand if this was mid game and they didnt review the video to find out what happened with the ball. But they saw the whole thing happen on replay numerous times. No excuse for the no call.

To the people that say you need to let them play in the last 5 seconds...So what if it was a key player and instead of ripping out a tooth, rondo rips into someones eyes and takes them out of the game. The bulls tie it up and go into OT again. how could you say it would be OK for them to have a no call on that because it was the last 5 seconds of the OT?

[oh the horror]

To the people that say you need to let them play in the last 5 seconds...So what if it was a key player and instead of ripping out a tooth, rondo rips into someones eyes and takes them out of the game. The bulls tie it up and go into OT again. how could you say it would be OK for them to have a no call on that because it was the last 5 seconds of the OT?



Well, that didnt happen did it?


We're dealing with what happened. Not an imaginary scenario. Brad Miller is a big boy, he handled it.

[flipogb]

yes, but its the Celtics, things always go their way

[burnsy87]

Well, that didnt happen did it?


We're dealing with what happened. Not an imaginary scenario. Brad Miller is a big boy, he handled it.

My point is when does it stop? If its ok to foul players as hard as you want on the last play, why not just take out their legs and take them out for the series?

We all know that if it was reversed and the bulls fouled the Celtics, it would have been a flagrant, which is lame.

[Ken_Masters]

I look at the intent. Rondo wasn't even looking at Miller when he caught him across the face. If Rondo was looking at Miller and hit him across the face, then it would have warranted a flagrant in my opinion, because then i would think he tried to hit him. I think Rondo intended to foul him, but seeing as though Rondo didn't even look at Miller when he hit him, i find it hard to believe he intentionally went at Millers head.

[Meticode]

It was a flagrant to me regardless if it was intentional or unintentional. You can get flagrant fouls called on you for something you didn't mean to do because it's your responsibility to place your body correctly when going for the ball. Rondo was in horrible position going for the ball, he put himself and Miller at risk for serious injury whacking him in the face that hard.

[bagelred]

To me, the flagrant foul is one of the worst things in the NBA. I understand why they want it in, but its applied way too inconsistently.

Basketball is a tremendously fast moving game. They teach players no easy layups, to give hard fouls, but then if its slightly TOO hard, its a flagrant. The line is so thin sometimes, its ridiculous.

The whole definition is "unnecessary and/or excessive". Was Rondo's actions "u and/or e"? Actually no, it was very necessary and not excessive, because he desperatately needed to stop the layup. He just happen to hit him in the face.

HOWEVER, based on the way they apply flagrants, there is NO QUESTION it should have been called. Miller got slammed right in the face with no attempt at the ball. That's the very definition of what refs call flagrants for. Yet no call.

It seems flagrants have nothing to do intent, but just whether someone hits the ground. You can make a clean attempt at a strip of the ball, but if you happen to catch the arm and the guy goes head first into the floor, it's a flagrant? Conversely, if a guy literally wraps you up and grabs you with no attempt at the ball, but you stand up, it's NOT a flagrant?


The whole rule needs to be revisited or just eliminated. This is what I think. Eliminate flagrant fouls but give refs ability to call more technicals. Each player gets 3 technical fouls a game before ejection. If someone fouls a player, but its obviously excessively hard or unnecessary, call a technical foul. Technical fouls would then be called based on INTENT, not RESULT.

[kkling]

If Rondo's timing is that bad, he shouldn't be in the paint trying block ****. =p

[phoenix18]

Im suprised that everyone is so pissed off about brad miller getting slapped when Dalembert almost got knocked out by Dwight Howard. Anyways the bulls were getting ridiculous calls, all game. Ben Gordon would just run into the Celtics and they kept calling fouls on Ray Allen. Or when Kirk Hinrich ran into rondo threw the ball up and hit his head on the floor.

[CrabDribble]

There is always the chance that the call could be changed after the fact, but of course doesn't give Chicago the W in the end. Peep what Rondo and Perkins said about the play: http://bit.ly/Hnshd

[phoenix18]

I just want to add this Miller is a dirty player, we all know that. Karma is *****. Thats what he just for stepping into ray allen and acting like he was abused so that Ray could foul out. Bottom Line he got what he deserved.

[boozehound]

repost from other thread

jeez, do we have to go over this every time there is a flagrant foul? THE NBA RULEBOOK SAYS NOTHING ABOUT INTENT! here are the two definitions.

If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary, a flagrant foul--penalty (1) will be assessed.

If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpret-ed to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul--penalty (2) will be assessed.
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList


so, was rondo's contact unnecessary? Certainly. he wasnt going for the ball at all. Was it excessive? Well, he did catch him pretty good and make him bleed.

Of course, the nba wont uphold their own rulebook (they almost never do).


rondo's foul was clearly at least a flagrant foul, in that it was unnecessary contact. was it excessive? well, he did knock his teeth out and never came near the ball so, yeah, it probably was. will the league suspend him? no, because they need their media story lines for the playoffs. should he be suspended? yes

[The_Yearning]

man that man lost his teeth and was bleeding like hell....the guy had stars around his head and couldn't see where the damn basket was brah....celtics lucked out....

either way...Boston going home second round...those tired bums..

[crisoner]

Yes it was Bulls still would of lost though

[icemanfan]

Yes it was Bulls still would of lost though
they would have had two shots and the ball. They would have won IMO. We will never know. Hi Cris BTW.

[shortlunatic]

for hitting miller in the face by accident? if that was the new policy for the league people would be getting suspended left and right.

wow i seriously question your brain compacity if you cant look at that and see it was flagrant. Who the hell did rondo think he was?? Stretch Armstrong?? He was is NO POSITION to take a swipe at that ball, but he did anywayz, but i guess since he wasnt looking at Miller, its okay to just *****-slap players across the face. Now to get this straight, im not complaining that Bulls should have won,becuase from what i have seen and heard, the game was terribly officiated on both ends. Ray Allen should have never fouled out, and i think that was huge. I hear Rose still cant get a foul call, and this last play just sums up the game in whole. In no way did the refs swing it for the Bulls, or Ray would not have fouled out. No way was it given to the Bulls or or a flagrant would have been called. Terrible officiating on both ends and something needs to be done about it. This is just getting ridiculous.

and i should also state that Rondo doesnt deserve suspended, its not like he sucker punched him. He just clearly made a bad decision, but something should have been done.

[Kensta]

wow i seriously question your brain compacity if you cant look at that and see it was flagrant. Who the hell did rondo think he was?? Stretch Armstrong?? He was is NO POSITION to take a swipe at that ball, but he did anywayz, but i guess since he wasnt looking at Miller, its okay to just *****-slap players across the face. Now to get this straight, im not complaining that Bulls should have won,becuase from what i have seen and heard, the game was terribly officiated on both ends. Ray Allen should have never fouled out, and i think that was huge. I hear Rose still cant get a foul call, and this last play just sums up the game in whole. In no way did the refs swing it for the Bulls, or Ray would not have fouled out. No way was it given to the Bulls or or a flagrant would have been called. Terrible officiating on both ends and something needs to be done about it. This is just getting ridiculous.

and i should also state that Rondo doesnt deserve suspended, its not like he sucker punched him. He just clearly made a bad decision, but something should have been done.

I agree with your first paragraph but not the second. I think he should get suspended. Look at this picture. Closed fist to the face. Looks like a punch to me.

Kobe flails his arms and hits someone in the face he gets suspended. This should be no different.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1594/nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg)

[Mor'Fiyah]

I agree with your first paragraph but not the second. I think he should get suspended. Look at this picture. Closed fist to the face. Looks like a punch to me.

Kobe flails his arms and hits someone in the face he gets suspended. This should be no different.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1594/nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg)

Exactly. If Kobe was suspended for unintentional contact to the head that was deemed unnecessary then so should Rondo.

[RapsFan]

It wasn't a closed fist punch...let's not get carried away. His hand was open and upon impact the fingers curled closed.

In the current NBA, it's a suspension. But it's too bad the NBA is at that state with fouls. No way that is nothing more then a hard foul back in the day. Flagarent to me SHOULD be intent, I know that isn't the NBA's definition....and it's not like he intended to run across the lane and chop a guy in the face with your team up 2 points with 2 second left. These are unreal athletes...Rondo has monkey arms and unfortunately got Miller good in the chops.

Almost every flagarent foul I see I think is a joke. Hard fouls should be allowed unless there is intent to injure a player.

[MMM]

wow i seriously question your brain compacity if you cant look at that and see it was flagrant. Who the hell did rondo think he was?? Stretch Armstrong?? He was is NO POSITION to take a swipe at that ball, but he did anywayz, but i guess since he wasnt looking at Miller, its okay to just *****-slap players across the face. Now to get this straight, im not complaining that Bulls should have won,becuase from what i have seen and heard, the game was terribly officiated on both ends. Ray Allen should have never fouled out, and i think that was huge. I hear Rose still cant get a foul call, and this last play just sums up the game in whole. In no way did the refs swing it for the Bulls, or Ray would not have fouled out. No way was it given to the Bulls or or a flagrant would have been called. Terrible officiating on both ends and something needs to be done about it. This is just getting ridiculous.

and i should also state that Rondo doesnt deserve suspended, its not like he sucker punched him. He just clearly made a bad decision, but something should have been done.

that is what i was saying in the post you quoted from me. It is ironic that you question my brain capacity when you can't even spell the word.

[MMM]

lol so the league is going to start suspending players for what is at most a flagrant one

[boozehound]

lol so the league is going to start suspending players for what is at most a flagrant one
so, smacking a guy across the face with no attempt on the ball and drawing blood isnt excessive in the game of bball? Thats the difference between a 1 and 2. unnecessary contact or unnecessary and excessive contact. obviously you are a boston homer, so I recognize that you will never admit rondo was well in the wrong on that play, but dont try and present your homer viewpoints as logical arguments. it doesnt work.

[JustinJDW]

I really don't know. I mean 3 Celtics just jumped up there along with Miller, Miller was bound to get hit somewhere. Rondo is like half the size of Miller, and it looked like he was trying to smack Miller's arm, but he got his face.

I don't know. I did not watch the whole game, so I don't know if Celtics were getting good calls or bad calls all night. I guess technically, it is a flagrant, but its the Playoffs. Calling that would have given the Game to the Bulls, and Games are not going to be given to you in the Playoffs.

I don't know. It is really hard to call. People have gotten hit worse and not be called a Flagrant. This one just looks bad because it was just Rondo's hand and there was no body contact or anything, so it looks like Rondo was just intentionally trying to hit his hand.

[Mrofir]

There is always the chance that the call could be changed after the fact, but of course doesn't give Chicago the W in the end. Peep what Rondo and Perkins said about the play: http://bit.ly/Hnshd

what the hell is Rondo wearing man, he looks like he stepped into a time machine

[BigTicket]

Hmm, I might have to change my mind of Rondo getting suspended after seeing that picture. If he had intended to make a play for the ball his hand would obviously be open, closed fist seems like he was going for a foul with no intention of making a play for the ball. Combine that with hitting Miller in the mouth and I think it probably should be a suspension.

Not as open and shut a case as Dwight though.

[TheGame]

Don't forget the refs also reviewed a 3 for Gordon and let him shoot when it was shown by the commentators that he stepped out of bounds in the 4th. So for me it evens out but Rondo should get suspended next game.

[The_Yearning]

I agree with your first paragraph but not the second. I think he should get suspended. Look at this picture. Closed fist to the face. Looks like a punch to me.

Kobe flails his arms and hits someone in the face he gets suspended. This should be no different.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1594/nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg)

he's also trying to pick miller's nose or was he aiming for his eyes with his thumb? hmm...

[mattevans11]

WOW this is homerism at its finest.......


from a rocket fan...actually dislike the bulls and celtics equally....

this is a flagrant foul....YES.... but should not have been called in the game at that poiint..... but i also believe that the reaction that happens early in the next game could not be called either....if the bulls done put someone on their a$$, preferably rondo, then they are a disgrace to sports teams.

no ref would decide the game on this..... they still gave miller a chance on the free throws...but the refs do owe the bulls a call or two next game.


boston fans...i watched the game for a little bit and saw two ray allen fouls and they were noth fouls.... SHUT IT!!!!!!!!!!

[tastystaci]

It's an obvious flagrant. Man, I hate homer logic. Also, if the league looks at it, deems it a flagrant, all that will happen is Rondo will be fined. No suspensions, no nothing. The Bulls got screwed. Once again I am reminded of why NBA officials are the F*cking worst. :rant

[Mor'Fiyah]

WOW this is homerism at its finest.......


from a rocket fan...actually dislike the bulls and celtics equally....

this is a flagrant foul....YES.... but should not have been called in the game at that poiint..... but i also believe that the reaction that happens early in the next game could not be called either....if the bulls done put someone on their a$$, preferably rondo, then they are a disgrace to sports teams.

no ref would decide the game on this..... they still gave miller a chance on the free throws...but the refs do owe the bulls a call or two next game.


boston fans...i watched the game for a little bit and saw two ray allen fouls and they were noth fouls.... SHUT IT!!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious. First you agree its a flagrant but you dont think it should have been called. And then you are encouraging that someone foul a Celtics player hard the next game and that they be allowed to do it as well?

*shakes head in disbelief*

Are you an NBA ref? Cause you seem to think like one...

[MeloMike]

He hit him in the face...obviously a flagrant. But I can see them not calling it that because of it being with three seconds left.

STILL...rules are rules, but only if the ref feels like it :rolleyes:

[mattevans11]

Are you serious. First you agree its a flagrant but you dont think it should have been called. And then you are encouraging that someone foul a Celtics player hard the next game and that they be allowed to do it as well?

*shakes head in disbelief*

Are you an NBA ref? Cause you seem to think like one...


if i was in the league..... and on the bulls..... i would throw rondo down next time he comes in the lane..... would not care about the call...... cause i would be the BIGGEST scrub in the league.....

if there is not suspension....then a reaction foul is a MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that being said....YES it was a good call with 2 seconds left.

[Fatal9]

Miller should have prolonged the bleeding so someone else could have shot them, it's not like they needed him in 2OT anyways. He looked a bit rattled before shooting the FTs and it was clear he was going to miss at least one.

[mattevans11]

Miller should have prolonged the bleeding so someone else could have shot them, it's not like they needed him in 2OT anyways. He looked a bit rattled before shooting the FTs and it was clear he was going to miss at least one.


what is the rule on this.... i thought it would be del negros selection to shoot them...but last night the announcers said that if miller couldnt shoot them, then doc would have been able to pick a shooter......

[Mor'Fiyah]

Miller should have prolonged the bleeding so someone else could have shot them, it's not like they needed him in 2OT anyways. He looked a bit rattled before shooting the FTs and it was clear he was going to miss at least one.

He couldn't. Had he been unable to take the free throws, since it wasnt a flagrant, Doc Rivers could have picked anyone of the Bulls to take the FTs. Not good.

Which is why I disagree with allowing Rondo's actions AT ANY POINT in the game. If I am an NBA coach when the game is on the line and you another player has a clear layup I would instruct them to knock their block off and see if they can clear their heads enough to make some clutch free throws.

[JJ81]

is there a clip?

[Fatal9]

He couldn't. Had he been unable to take the free throws, since it wasnt a flagrant, Doc Rivers could have picked anyone of the Bulls to take the FTs. Not good.

Which is why I disagree with allowing Rondo's actions AT ANY POINT in the game. If I am an NBA coach when the game is on the line and you another player has a clear layup I would instruct them to knock their block off and see if they can clear their heads enough to make some clutch free throws.
Forgot it was the opposing coach :hammerhead:

[OneMoreSucka]

This call was almost as bad as the Barry/Fisher foul last year.

[Mor'Fiyah]

This call was almost as bad as the Barry/Fisher foul last year.

lol ... How do you compare a normal foul to a flagrant to the face?

[Kensta]

what is the rule on this.... i thought it would be del negros selection to shoot them...but last night the announcers said that if miller couldnt shoot them, then doc would have been able to pick a shooter......

Del Negro gets to pick not Doc. Announcers got it wrong.

[MMM]

Del Negro gets to pick not Doc. Announcers got it wrong.

Doc picks under personal fouls
Del Negro under Flagrant 1's and 2's
i believe.

[tastystaci]

Doc picks under personal fouls
Del Negro under Flagrant 1's and 2's
i believe.

You are correct. So if the officials would've made the right call, BG would've shot the freethrows, and they would've got the ball back. Amazing how much power officiating has in the NBA...isn't it?

[D-Rose]

Absolutely should have been a flagrant. The ball was OUT OF THE PICTURE when he hit his face....no way that was only a PF....bs call IMO.

[franchise#3]

After looking at it a few times it's a flagrant foul. Rondo didn't have a chance to reach the ball.

[lowblok]

After looking at it a few times it's a flagrant foul. Rondo didn't have a chance to reach the ball.

Plus he had time to pull his arm away from his face.


But nevermind the foul, that was a great inbound play that almost got a wide open layup at the rim.

[Mor'Fiyah]

Plus he had time to pull his arm away from his face.


But nevermind the foul, that was a great inbound play that almost got a wide open layup at the rim.

Of course it was. Thats why he fouled the crap out of him. It was a 85% layup that got changed to two FTs.

[GOBB]

1. IT was flagrant
2. He should be suspended for the next game
3. If Brad Miller popped Rondo in the same situation (with Rondo mouth leaking)? Then Brad is penalized without a doubt

Make note that play didnt determine the game in my eyes. Thats not the reason the Bulls lost. But that was a bad play. He didnt make a play for the ball and even admitted that. Shoes on the other foot and Doc Rivers isnt saying great play, thats playoff basketball. He's saying there is no place in the game for that, his guy could have been seriously hurt. Go figure.

But we move on and i hope next game is as entertaining as this series has been.

[MMM]

1. IT was flagrant
2. He should be suspended for the next game
3. If Brad Miller popped Rondo in the same situation (with Rondo mouth leaking)? Then Brad is penalized without a doubt


Are you saying it was a flagrant 2 then otherwise it doesn't deserve a suspension.

[GOBB]

Are you saying it was a flagrant 2 then otherwise it doesn't deserve a suspension.

Yes

[rawimpact]

**** yeah that was a flagrant, how are you going for the ball with a closed fist?

[shortlunatic]

It is ironic that you question my brain capacity when you can't even spell the word.

thats my mistake, but regardless, its just a mistake, the two words sound very familiar and i got it confused. However, you statement of it not being flagrant is not a mistake. You strongly believe it, and thats because you are being a patehtic celtics homer (unless you changed your mind on it in a different post that i havent seen). After the picture, i might have to change my mind about a suspension. If he was going for the ball, his fist would not have been closed. Definitlely needs to be looked at.


that is what i was saying in the post you quoted from me.

So what?? thats only cuz i didnt want to go back and find the post where you said it wasnt a flagrant. But i decided to anywayz just to show you.


looked like a desperate attempt at the ball but he caught Miller in the face that has to be a very tough situation by the refs. Personally I don't think their was enough of a swiping action to warrant a flagrant foul.

[RapsFan]

I agree with your first paragraph but not the second. I think he should get suspended. Look at this picture. Closed fist to the face. Looks like a punch to me.

Kobe flails his arms and hits someone in the face he gets suspended. This should be no different.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1594/nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nbaflagrantfouls1576.jpg)

If you watch the live tape and not a photo, then you'll see Rondo's first arm action was when Bmill had the ball much lower, and Rondo's fingers were spread wide open. Not exactly a punch and I think it's pretty funny people are saying Rondo punched him by looking at this picture.

It doesn't matter anyway...Gordon's 3 free throws shouldn't have counted as he was out of bounds, so this particular play had no impact on the outcome of the game.

[burnsy87]

If you watch the live tape and not a photo, then you'll see Rondo's first arm action was when Bmill had the ball much lower, and Rondo's fingers were spread wide open. Not exactly a punch and I think it's pretty funny people are saying Rondo punched him by looking at this picture.

It doesn't matter anyway...Gordon's 3 free throws shouldn't have counted as he was out of bounds, so this particular play had no impact on the outcome of the game.


Theres no proof that his foot was on the line!! you didnt even have a correct camera angle to see it! stop being homers and saying that you KNOW he was out of bounds. How many times have you seen plays from one angle and thought you were right and then you end up being completely wrong? PROBABLY A LOT!

[Detroit]

ok now it is pointless for the league to change the call now!! if it was called during the game it couldve change the whole outcome of the game. POINTLESS!! the nba where amazing happens:bowdown:

[Lakers13]

Yeah it was a flagrant. Hopefully Bulls send a message in the next game after that cheap shot wasnt penalized.

[icemanfan]

Del Negro gets to pick not Doc. Announcers got it wrong.
no if the player can not make it back to the line then the opposing coach gets to pick the shooter. Weird rule I know but its in there.