Forget LeBronVsKobe,if LeBron wins the championship thisyear is he better than Jordan

[doinitbig06]

AL right we all know Jordan had the distinctive advantage of going to college, i do believe that helps sharper a teen players game for a year or two, and of course winning a championship there too helps

still 18 year old LeBron got way more attention then 21 year old micheal, LeBron was a undisputed lottery pick, Blazers everyone knows Bowied themselves, Cleveland his hometown has seemed his destiny so far and assuming no matter what he's offered, he's gonna resign with Cleveland

if you compare LeBron James in his 6th season and Micheal Jordan to his 6th season its incredible what LeBron has achieved at 24 years old

1st year - 04 rookie (19) 35-47
on a team that featured only ilgauskas boozer ricky davis darius miles and a mess of guards, leBron still averages good numbers, undisputed rookie of the year

20.9 ppg 5.9 rpg 5.5 apg 39.5 mpg .417 fg% .290 3ptfg .754 ft%

2nd year - 05 all star (20) 42-40
still ilguaskus and now gooden and unfortunately and probably mostly the reason the cavs missed the playoffs is cuz of PGs jeff mcginnis and ira newble but LeBron All-star leading the leauge in minutes played

27.2 ppg 7.4 rpg 7.2 apg 42.4 mpg 47.2 fg% 35.1 3pt% 75 ft%

3rd year - 06 team leader (21) 50-32
after trades that brought over larry hughes donyell marshall and damon jones the LeBron improved in all percentage catagories and leads his team to a 50 win season, the MVP debate began

playoffs
beat gilbert arenas wizards in 6 games
lost to east conf champ pistons in 7 games
30.9 ppg 8.8 rpg 8.1 apg 46.2 mpg 47.3 fg% 33.3 3pt% 73.7 ft%

4th year - 07 MVP play began (22) 50-32
in a second consecutive 50 win season with ilgauskus and the core, still without a great PG, the LeBron was 4th in the league in scoring and PER

playoffs
sleep wizards first good sign
swatted nets in 6 games
famously upsetted eastern conference champion at the time detroit pistons
got SWEPT by the hole at PG and tony parker
25.1 ppg 8.1 rpg 8.0 apg 44.6 mpg 41.3 fg% 28 3pt% 75 ft%

5th year - 08 defending eastern conference champs, but KG (23) 45-37
still second in their division to the pistons, due to the pistons and THEIR point guard (at the time) the cavs had no stability at that position and slipped a bit, kobe MVP

playoffs
routinely swat the wizards in 6 games
as the 4th seed played 1 seed eventual champion celtics to 7 epic games
28.2 ppg 7.8 rpg 7.6 apg 42.5 mpg 41.1 fg% 25.7 3pt% 73.1 ft%

6th year 09 MVP (24) 66-16
finally got their PG to start 81 games and be 2nd in scoring and assists and the cavs are the same as the celtics were the previous season or better, LeBron career high fg%, ft%, 3pt%, career low mpg

playoffs
routinely destroy shell pistons
atlanta's playing well against them and still losing in 5 (just 1 win please :D)
LeBron and Cavs beat defending champion celtics or DPOY led magic in 6
33.7 ppg 10.0 rpg 6.6 apg


of course this all depends on if LeBron wins the championship this season, because if he does, who in the eastern conference is to say they dont win it EVERY season for the next 10 damn years?!?

michael jordan won his 6 championships at age 27, 28, 29 and 32, 33, 34

if LeBron wins his first at 24 the NBA is in trouble

[PleezeBelieve]

Lebron right now is as good as Jordan ever was.

You cannot argue otherwise. LeBron's FT shootingn can improve, but he makes up for with his floor game.

[2LeTTeRS]

Lebron right now is as good as Jordan ever was.

You cannot argue otherwise. LeBron's FT shootingn can improve, but he makes up for with his floor game.

False. MJ was a superior defensive player, and a more complete offensive player because he had a much better mid-range jumper and post game. LeBron still has a long way to go to make it to MJ level as an individual player, and thats before we bring championships into the picture.

[doinitbig06]

and this is with MIKE BROWN a coach that entered the NBA the same year as James, it didn't take the triangle offense of Phil Jackson

[Lebron23]

He still needs to win 6 NBA Championships and 6 NBA Regular Season MVP, but current LeBron is a much better team player than Young Michael Jordan.

[doinitbig06]

False. MJ was a superior defensive player, and a more complete offensive player because he had a much better mid-range jumper and post game. LeBron still has a long way to go to make it to MJ level as an individual player, and thats before we bring championships into the picture.

LeBron James does not have a LONG way to go before making it to MJ level as an induvidual and especially his making teammates better, his midrange has gotten stupid in these playoffs, he's shooting 55.5% dude, and his 3pt shot right now is better than Micheal Jordan's ever was, he doesn't post that often because he doesnt have to even at 6'8 260, and he's only 24

[doinitbig06]

He still needs to win 6 NBA Championships and 6 NBA Regular Season MVP, but current LeBron is a much better team player than Young Michael Jordan.

man screw the damn david stern award show im talking BASKETBALL PLAY, statistically Jordan still owns with he always avging at least 30 ppg at 50% fg but LeBron is a much better rebounder, just as good defender, and as good a passer, if he can ever shoot 80% fts LeBon will average 40 ppg

[JJ81]

lol

[PleezeBelieve]

I swear to God you idiots are parrots. Greratness is staring you right in the face and you still try to dismiss it. And for what? Just to build Jordan'js legacy?

70% of you lames didn't see Jordan's career in full and the other 30% are Bulls fans.

I don't need to argue the points cause reality is just that, real. Can't get around LeBron's numbers. And he's doing it with FAR less talent than Jordan had in his prime.

[Roundball_Rock]

Nah. Let's compare the two, assuming LeBron wins the championship this year.

Championships

Jordan: 6
James: 1

Finals record

Jordan: 6-0
James: 1-1 (and the loss was a sweep!)

MVP's

Jordan: 5
James: 1

Times top 3 in MVP voting:

Jordan: 10 (every full season from 1987 to 1998)
James: 2

Times top 5 in MVP voting:

Jordan: 10
James: 4

Defensive Player of the Year Awards

Jordan: 1
James: 0

All-NBA first team appearances

Jordan: 10
James: 2

All-Defensive first team appearances

Jordan: 9
James: 1

Scoring championships

Jordan: 10
James: 1

Need I continue? James has potential but has a long way to go before he enters the top 10 all-time, let alone gets into the GOAT discussion. Forget Lebron versus Kobe? Lebron has yet to overtake Kobe all-time. If Lebron retired tomorrow he would not be top 20 all-time.

[PleezeBelieve]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

In a LeBron v Jordan scenario, LeBron beats him 7 out of 10 times. His doinance is too much for Jordan to overcome. Frankly, Lebron can check Jordan adequately while Jordan would stand no chancve versus LeBron.

Game. Set. Match.

[Roundball_Rock]

And he's doing it with FAR less talent than Jordan had in his prime.

Jordan had one all-star on his team in his prime; Lebron has one current all-star and three former all-stars (Ben Wallace, 4x; Big Z, 2x; Wally S 1x), a 4x defensive player of the year, and a former #1 draft pick.

[Roundball_Rock]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

Good question. The guy who went 6-0 in the NBA finals or the guy who got swept in the finals on 35.6% shooting while averaging almost as many turnovers (6) as assists (7)?

[DukeDelonte13]

Jordan had one all-star on his team in his prime; Lebron has one current all-star and three former all-stars (Ben Wallace, 4x; Big Z, 2x; Wally S 1x), a 4x defensive player of the year, and a former #1 draft pick.


i hate ppl that make this ridiculous argument. Need I remind you that our only "allstar" was an allstar because of injuries, Z is no allstar he was 5 years ago, Ben is pretty much a non factor now, and I don't even know when Wally became an allstar but it sure as hell wasn't recent.

[Da_Realist]

Lebron right now is as good as Jordan ever was.

You cannot argue otherwise. LeBron's FT shootingn can improve, but he makes up for with his floor game.

Two different leagues. MJ dominated a big man's league. Lebron is dominating a perimeter-oriented league. And even then, MJ was better. Check what each was able to accomplish after relatively the same amount of games.

Reg Season
MJ (85-91, 509 games)
32.6 pts, 5.9 asts, 6.3 rebs, 2.8 stls, 1.1 blks, 52 fg%

LB (05-09, 472 games and counting)
27.5 pts, 6.7 asts, 7.0 rebs, 1.8 stls, 0.9 blks, 47 fg%

Playoffs
MJ (85-90, 53 games)
35.8 pts, 6.7 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.5 stls, 1.0 blks, 51 fg%

LB (05-09, 53 games and counting)
28.4 pts, 7.2 asts, 8.3 rebs, 1.7 stls, 0.8 blks, 45 fg%

[Manute for Ever!]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

In a LeBron v Jordan scenario, LeBron beats him 7 out of 10 times. His doinance is too much for Jordan to overcome. Frankly, Lebron can check Jordan adequately while Jordan would stand no chancve versus LeBron.

Game. Set. Match.

You say that you saw Jordan play, how can you be so blind to what you saw? Nobody is saying that Lebron isn't great, they are just saying there was someone better. Currently at any given time, there are 450 players in the league. The league has been in existence for over 60 years, had betwen 8 and 30 teams with 15 players on each roster in its history. It's okay if one or two players out of a demographic that big was better.

[Scott Pippen]

Let us not jump to conclusion too fast. LeBron is not Jordan. He may be one day, but he is only 6 years into the NBA. He is not the offensive or defensive player peak Jordan was and of course the accomplishments speak for themselves. He has the chance to get there. At the rate he is going I think it's very possible he may be among the GOAT's one day. But not yet.

[Lebron23]

Two different leagues. MJ dominated a big man's league. Lebron is dominating a perimeter-oriented league. And even then, MJ was better. Check what each was able to accomplish after relatively the same amount of games.

Reg Season
MJ (85-91, 509 games)
32.6 pts, 5.9 asts, 6.3 rebs, 2.8 stls, 1.1 blks, 52 fg%

LB (05-09, 472 games and counting)
27.5 pts, 6.7 asts, 7.0 rebs, 1.8 stls, 0.9 blks, 47 fg%

Playoffs
MJ (85-90, 53 games)
35.8 pts, 6.7 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.5 stls, 1.0 blks, 51 fg%

LB (05-09, 53 games and counting)
28.4 pts, 7.2 asts, 8.3 rebs, 1.7 stls, 0.8 blks, 45 fg%

I hope LeBron wins more than 3 NBA Championships because he has the stats and basketball resume to surpass Bird, Duncan, and Shaq in the All time Rankings.

I am a bit surprised that Jordan only played 53 playoffs games in his first 6 NBA Seasons.

[RapsFan]

These threads are a joke. Only people who are probably in the early 20s and under would be stupid enough to make this comment. It's a shame that this new generation of NBA fans are ignorant to how good Jordan was. But, in time they will be the ones arguing against some young pup about how good Lebron was. It's all a cycle. I much prefer the opinion of someone in the 30s, 40s, 50s who was able to watch Jordan's career, as well as all of Kobe and Lebrons and is able to make an intelligent opinion.

Jordan's supporting cast wasn't elite at all. His best teammate was a great player, but was a slashing, defensive small forward. Lebron's teammates aren't great either (the comment about # of all stars is dumb). That is why I think Lebron is the best player right now.

[Roundball_Rock]

The issue PB raised is talent. The current Cleveland roster has more talent than the Bulls of Jordan's prime.

If you want to factor in injury all-stars that plays with Jordan too. Pippen was an all-star in 1990 only due to injuries. In 1991--the Bulls first title year--he was not an all-star. Nor was he in 1998 because he only played about 10 games before the all-star break. So Jordan won in 1991 without a legitimate all-star on his team and technically won two championships without an all-star teammate.

James has among the weakest supporting casts of any legitimate title contender in recent years. However, so did prime Jordan. Heck, even old Jordan had a team one year in which only two players averaged more than 8 points per game in the playoffs. How great is a supporting cast where the third best offensive player averages 7.9 ppg on 36% shooting? People act as if MJ had stacked teams like Magic and Bird did. This just adds to MJ's status as the GOAT. Magic was barely above .500 (5-4) in the finals despite having Kareem (himself a GOAT candidate), Worthy, Scott, McAdoo, Wilkes, AC Green, Norm Nixon, Sam Perkins, and Divac while Bird was "only" 3-2 with McHale, Parish, Johnson, Archibald, Ainge, and Maxwell.

[Lebron23]

And Pleezebelieve is senile. Don't take his posts seriously. :lol :oldlol: :lol

It's time to close this thread.

[Da_Realist]

I hope LeBron wins more than 3 NBA Championships because he has the stats and basketball resume to surpass Bird, Duncan, and Shaq in the All time Rankings.

I am a bit surprised that Jordan only played 53 playoffs games in his first 6 NBA Seasons.

The East was loaded back then. Celtics, Pistons, Cavs, Bucks...they were all very good teams.

[Roundball_Rock]

Lebron's teammates aren't great either (the comment about # of all stars is dumb).

It isn't dumb to assess the talent level of a player's teammates when someone raises that very issue. Obviously Z, Wally, Wallace, and Smith are past their prime but compare them to Paxson, Armstrong, Stacey King, and Bill Cartwright. :oldlol:

[Meticode]

I honestly don't give a **** who's better anymore. I'm tired of these threads. I'm just going to enjoy watching basketball and stop comparing **** number one with **** number two. It's getting so old and played out.

[Johnni Gade]

As a player right now, he might be near Jordans level. Statisticly Jordan is still way ahead of him.

[Lebron23]

The East was loaded back then. Celtics, Pistons, Cavs, Bucks...they were all very good teams.

But three of the best teams in the NBA are playing in the Eastern Conference.

Cavs won 66 games
Boston won 60 Games
Orlando won 59 games.

Head to Head

East 221 wins - West- 219 wins

[Da_Realist]

This ain't just about Jordan. I'd like to introduce the OP to a fella named Magic Johnson who averaged more rebounds, more assists, more steals and shot a higher fg% after 906 reg season games than James has after only 472.

[2LeTTeRS]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

In a LeBron v Jordan scenario, LeBron beats him 7 out of 10 times. His doinance is too much for Jordan to overcome. Frankly, Lebron can check Jordan adequately while Jordan would stand no chancve versus LeBron.

Game. Set. Match.

LeBron has come a long way defensively, but he can't check Jordan. And why would you ask him to do that, when he makes the most impact defensively as a help defender? Jordan is still a better man defender than Bron, and seeing that Bron has a hard time with defenders that have strong cores and can keep up with him, I say he'd have a harder time being D'ed by Jordan than Jordan would against Bron. Until Bron gets the ability to score in a variety of ways (i.e. continuing to improve his mid-range/post game, to go with his long range Js and drives to the basket) like Jordan, than I take Jordan.

[Lebron23]

Michael Jordan and Pleezebelieve.

http://www.soleredemption.com/pics/2006/04/MikeSpaceJam.jpg

[godofgods]

Lebron is not as good as Jordan yet.
However, when it's all said and done (and if he never joins the Knicks), Lebron will be the greatest player ever. It's just a matter of time.

[PleezeBelieve]

The issue PB raised is talent. The current Cleveland roster has more talent than the Bulls of Jordan's prime.

If you want to factor in injury all-stars that plays with Jordan too. Pippen was an all-star in 1990 only due to injuries. In 1991--the Bulls first title year--he was not an all-star. Nor was he in 1998 because he only played about 10 games before the all-star break. So Jordan won in 1991 without a legitimate all-star on his team and technically won two championships without an all-star teammate.

James has among the weakest supporting casts of any legitimate title contender in recent years. However, so did prime Jordan. Heck, even old Jordan had a team one year in which only two players averaged more than 8 points per game in the playoffs. How great is a supporting cast where the third best offensive player averages 7.9 ppg on 36% shooting? People act as if MJ had stacked teams like Magic and Bird did. This just adds to MJ's status as the GOAT. Magic was barely above .500 (5-4) in the finals despite having Kareem (himself a GOAT candidate), Worthy, Scott, McAdoo, Wilkes, AC Green, Norm Nixon, Sam Perkins, and Divac while Bird was "only" 3-2 with McHale, Parish, Johnson, Archibald, Ainge, and Maxwell.
How do you argue with someone like this? Like really, tell me what I could say that would get a person of this niavity to realize what he's saying is utter crap?

Help me.

[Roundball_Rock]

How do you argue with someone like this?

Usually, facts are used in well-thought arguments but...

[doinitbig06]

Nah. Let's compare the two, assuming LeBron wins the championship this year.

Championships

Jordan: 6
James: 1

Finals record

Jordan: 6-0
James: 1-1 (and the loss was a sweep!)

MVP's

Jordan: 5
James: 1

Times top 3 in MVP voting:

Jordan: 10 (every full season from 1987 to 1998)
James: 2

Times top 5 in MVP voting:

Jordan: 10
James: 4

Defensive Player of the Year Awards

Jordan: 1
James: 0

All-NBA first team appearances

Jordan: 10
James: 2

All-Defensive first team appearances

Jordan: 9
James: 1

Scoring championships

Jordan: 10
James: 1

Need I continue? James has potential but has a long way to go before he enters the top 10 all-time, let alone gets into the GOAT discussion. Forget Lebron versus Kobe? Lebron has yet to overtake Kobe all-time. If Lebron retired tomorrow he would not be top 20 all-time.

LOL

i think its safe to say LeBron James is not going to retire tomorrow.
its safe to say he will play for at least another 12 seasons.

Lets look at Jordan at 24 and LeBron at 24

Championships:

Jordan: 0
James:1 (assuming he wins this)

Finals Record:

Jordan: 0-0
James: 0-4 (experience losing fuels greatness)

Playoffs records:

Jordan: 5-15
James: 27-10

MVPs:

Jordan: 1
James: 1

times top 3 in mvp voting:

Jordan: 1
James: 1

top 3 DPOY:

Jordan: 1
James: 1

Defensive Player of the Year Award:

Jordan: 1
James: 0

All NBA First Team:

Jordan: 3
James: 2

All Defensive First Team:

Jordan: 2
James: 1

NBA Leading Scoring Title:

Jordan: 2
James: 1

needless to say of course Micheal Jordan was great at 24 but it is argueable that 24 year old LeBron could be better than 24 year old Micheal

[PleezeBelieve]

LeBron has come a long way defensively, but he can't check Jordan. And why would you ask him to do that, when he makes the most impact defensively as a help defender? Jordan is still a better man defender than Bron, and seeing that Bron has a hard time with defenders that have strong cores and can keep up with him, I say he'd have a harder time being D'ed by Jordan than Jordan would against Bron. Until Bron gets the ability to score in a variety of ways (i.e. continuing to improve his mid-range/post game, to go with his long range Js and drives to the basket) like Jordan, than I take Jordan.
Are you kidding me, man?

Jordan has never faced someone like LeBron, offensively or defensively. For you to speculated LeBron would have a harder time with him rather than vice-versa is hogwash to me. Jordan has better instincts than Kobe, but Kobe has better lenght which helps him guard the ball at the point of better.

And LeBron simply blows by him with his combination of strenght and explaosiveness.

Same would happen to Jordan. Jordan stands no chance.

[Da_Realist]

LOL

Lets look at Jordan at 24 and LeBron at 24

Lebron's already played 6 seasons. Jordan only played 3 by age 24. Why not compare them after the same number of games?


Two different leagues. MJ dominated a big man's league. Lebron is dominating a perimeter-oriented league. And even then, MJ was better. Check what each was able to accomplish after relatively the same amount of games.

Reg Season
MJ (85-91, 509 games)
32.6 pts, 5.9 asts, 6.3 rebs, 2.8 stls, 1.1 blks, 52 fg%

LB (05-09, 472 games and counting)
27.5 pts, 6.7 asts, 7.0 rebs, 1.8 stls, 0.9 blks, 47 fg%

Playoffs
MJ (85-90, 53 games)
35.8 pts, 6.7 asts, 6.9 rebs, 2.5 stls, 1.0 blks, 51 fg%

LB (05-09, 53 games and counting)
28.4 pts, 7.2 asts, 8.3 rebs, 1.7 stls, 0.8 blks, 45 fg%

[Roundball_Rock]

i think its safe to say LeBron James is not going to retire tomorrow.
its safe to say he will play for at least another 12 seasons.

Yes, but the issue is current accomplishments. Lebron definitely has the potential to join the GOAT discussion but he has a long way to go at this point. There is no guarantee that he won't go the way of Grant Hill. There were some who argued that Hill would be among the GOATs after his first six seasons as well. We cannot assume what will happen; we can only look at what is on the scoreboard at this point.


needless to say of course Micheal Jordan was great at 24 but it is argueable that 24 year old LeBron could be better than 24 year old Micheal

That argument definitely could be made. Of course, it is also a misleading comparison. 24 year old LeBron has six years of NBA experience; Jordan at 24 had four years of experience, and he only played 18 games in one due to injury. Even then, though, one could make a legitimate comparison between Jordan's first six years and LeBron's first six--but you could also compare Grant Hill's first six seasons with James' as well...Notice how Hill is not even mentioned among the top 10 all-time at his position these days?

[Manute for Ever!]

Lebron's already played 6 seasons. Jordan only played 3 by age 24. Why not compare them after the same number of games?

That works a lot better. "These youngest to" stats and age related stats when the experience doesn't match up are kind of pointless.

[doinitbig06]

the title of this f*cking thread, you F*cking idiot is IF LEBRON WINS THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR

all of this doesnt matter unless he wins, and if he wins, as he is only 24 and will keep improving, who is gonna stop him from winning it every f*cking season for the next 10 years?!

[Roundball_Rock]

That works a lot better. "These youngest to" stats and age related stats when the experience doesn't match up are kind of pointless.

Plus it is clever sleight of hand to ignore the fact that Jordan did not start winning championships until his seventh season. Who cares if player X compares to MJ's first few seasons? The heart of MJ's legacy came from the second half of his career.

[PleezeBelieve]

LOL

i think its safe to say LeBron James is not going to retire tomorrow.
its safe to say he will play for at least another 12 seasons.

Lets look at Jordan at 24 and LeBron at 24

Championships:

Jordan: 0
James:1 (assuming he wins this)

Finals Record:

Jordan: 0-0
James: 0-4 (experience losing fuels greatness)

Playoffs records:

Jordan: 5-15
James: 27-10

MVPs:

Jordan: 1
James: 1

times top 3 in mvp voting:

Jordan: 1
James: 1

top 3 DPOY:

Jordan: 1
James: 1

Defensive Player of the Year Award:

Jordan: 1
James: 0

All NBA First Team:

Jordan: 3
James: 2

All Defensive First Team:

Jordan: 2
James: 1

NBA Leading Scoring Title:

Jordan: 2
James: 1

needless to say of course Micheal Jordan was great at 24 but it is argueable that 24 year old LeBron could be better than 24 year old Micheal
And another thing you have to factor into all these All-NBA teams is LeBron is a forward. He battles FAR stiffer sompetition for those All-NBA slots than Jordan dealt with.

[Roundball_Rock]

the title of this f*cking thread, you F*cking idiot is IF LEBRON WINS THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR

all of this doesnt matter unless he wins, and if he wins, as he is only 24 and will keep improving, who is gonna stop him from winning it every f*cking season for the next 10 years?!

Lebron is going to pull a Russell and win 11 straight championships! No, no, he will make it 12 since James>Russell!

[Raps4Life]

This is just a case of a Lebron lover that feels he won the Kobe v.s. Lebron war with the MVP award, now he's looking for the next challenger. Right now, Jordan is the ultimate measuring stick. I would love to know the age of the OP. I wonder if he has watched Jordan for an entire season or just highlights from "Come Fly With Me".

It's okay to say Lebron is becoming a great player. You don't have to fight to say he's the greatest yet. I'm sure Lebron doesn't think he's better than Jordan yet, why should you?

[PleezeBelieve]

This is just a case of a Lebron lover that feels he won the Kobe v.s. Lebron war with the MVP award, now he's looking for the next challenger. Right now, Jordan is the ultimate measuring stick. I would love to know the age of the OP. I wonder if he has watched Jordan for an entire season or just highlights from "Come Fly With Me".

It's okay to say Lebron is becoming a great player. You don't have to fight to say he's the greatest yet. I'm sure Lebron doesn't think he's better than Jordan yet, why should you?
LMAO. This guy is the exact type of guy I'm talking about.

"LeBron BECOMING a great player"

:roll: :roll: :roll:


This is the very issue that kills me about you all. Stare greatness in the face and put a middle finger to it.

MEMO: LeBron's been a great player. Ya know, even doings things Jordan never did?

Got it?

[godofgods]

Lebron was better than Kobe since his rookie year. Please, don't compare Lebron with that abomination.

Now, if Lebron wins 2 championships with the Cavs, he's better than Bird and Magic combined. Win 3 or more, and he's better than Jordan, Bird and Magic combined.

[doinitbig06]

This is just a case of a Lebron lover that feels he won the Kobe v.s. Lebron war with the MVP award, now he's looking for the next challenger. Right now, Jordan is the ultimate measuring stick. I would love to know the age of the OP. I wonder if he has watched Jordan for an entire season or just highlights from "Come Fly With Me".

It's okay to say Lebron is becoming a great player. You don't have to fight to say he's the greatest yet. I'm sure Lebron doesn't think he's better than Jordan yet, why should you?

this is just a discussion homie, all these 23 vs 24 commercials coming on, LeBron i feel is on another level than Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade, and im a Hawks fan, and being at the game 3 and seeing him do his thing live, he has seemed to have mastered the game of basketball to a certain extent, ALREADY of course there always room for improvement, but his improvement beyond this point is going to be unfair

[Manute for Ever!]

LMAO. This guy is the exact type of guy I'm talking about.

"LeBron BECOMING a great player"

:roll: :roll: :roll:


This is the very issue that kills me about you all. Stare greatness in the face and put a middle finger to it.

MEMO: LeBron's been a great player. Ya know, even doings things Jordan never did?

Got it?

When almost nobody agrees with you, regardless how much 'evidence' you spout, does it ever cross your mind that maybe you are the one that is wrong?

[NuggetsFan]

Stupid thread. Let's give it some time atleast..

[Roundball_Rock]

Now, if Lebron wins 2 championships with the Cavs, he's better than Bird and Magic combined. Win 3 or more, and he's better than Jordan, Bird and Magic combined.

:roll: Let's at least wait a few weeks to see if Lebron wins a championship this year before we start the "what if he wins 20 championships" discussion. ; )

[Raps4Life]

LMAO. This guy is the exact type of guy I'm talking about.

"LeBron BECOMING a great player"

:roll: :roll: :roll:


This is the very issue that kills me about you all. Stare greatness in the face and put a middle finger to it.

MEMO: LeBron's been a great player. Ya know, even doings things Jordan never did?

Got it?

"Crazed troll who occasionally makes good points" Oops not this time.

Did you even read my post? Did I give the middle finger to Lebron's "greatness"? I see a player who has had a lot of pressure and hype and pressure thrust upon him and one that has done the unthinkable and exceeded expectations. I have seen the first player that has been compared to Jordan actually have the ability to reach and maybe surpass that level. I just don't think I'm staring at the greatness of Jordan YET. The whole talk is premature. Greatness will win championships. Greatness without championships = Bernard King

[Lebron23]

Shut up Pleezebelieve. Stop Jinxing the Cleveland Cavaliers.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Raps4Life]

Shut up Pleezebelieve. Stop Jinxing the Cleveland Cavaliers.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Lebron23 is possibly the only Cavs poster I have seen with a good perspective on this whole Lebron hype. He realizes Lebron is great but doesn't make premature outrageous statements.

[DonDadda59]

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAHE097_8x10~Dwyane-Wade-With-MVP-And-2006-Finals-Trophies-Posters.jpg

Dwayne Wade has 1 championship. Dwayne Wade>Michael Jordan.

I swear, some of the dumbest people on Earth post here on ISH. Why not enjoy Lebron's career for what it is? ESPN has brainwashed all of you into always equating any perimeter player who's ever dunked a basketball with the greatest of all time. Lebron will go down as one of the greatest players the game has ever seen, but he's only 24 years old (scary when you think about how good he can be). His game has little similarity to MJ's, the guy is built like a PF, so there's no REAL comparison. Whether you want to believe it or not, Lebron has a very far way to go before he's even in the conversation. How does 1 championship leap frog him over Jordan in the first place? That's the epitome of illogical reasoning :hammerhead: . And let's not make believe that the Bulls of the 90s were so much better than the Cavs (from a talent standpoint). They were both defensive oriented teams and while MJ's sidekick is much better than Bron's, I think the Cavs are much deeper than the Bulls were (the first 3 peat anyway).

Let Lebron be Lebron, enjoy his greatness for the unique phenomenon that it is. Don't let ESPN's pathetic attempt to garner ratings by proclaiming him as the 32nd 'next Michael Jordan' ruin his individual legacy. Look at how maligned Kobe has been, instead of people letting his career stand alone, he is CONSTANTLY compared to (and falling very short of) MJ's legacy. It's not fair to guys like him who will always be undervalued because they can't live up to the loftiest of expectations despite being great players themselves.

I have an inkling that when it's all said and done Lebron James will be remembered as one of the 5 best players ever, but it's just speculation. Right now I just enjoy watching him look like a man amongst children while displaying his awesome talent. Everyone should try to do the same. The league is going through a mini renaissance but people won't realize this and can't enjoy it if they are constantly looking to the past...

[andgar923]

Kenny Smith (of all people) had to explain to Lebron what "killer instinct" was all about.

And he's supposed to be the GOAT?

[Dave3]

The East was loaded back then. Celtics, Pistons, Cavs, Bucks...they were all very good teams.
Not supporting the OP AT ALL, but in all fairness, Jordan was making the playoffs with 30 win seasons, so that evens out the fact that he was bounced early by amazing teams in the playoffs.

[Lodi Dodi]

Jordan was arguably the best player in the league from ages 25-35 and won 5 league MVPs despite being shafted a couple times. If LeBron is still the best player in the league in 2019 then start talking.

[YAWN]

obviously

[Simple Jack]

He still needs to win 6 NBA Championships and 6 NBA Regular Season MVP, but current LeBron is a much better team player than Young Michael Jordan.

I disagree. Championships shouldn't be the only factor in determining a players greatness. The simple rebuttal would be, "then Bill Russell is the greatest player of all time".

Rings are team awards and while they are the ultimate achievement in basketball, it requires A LOT of things to go right and most importantly a team.

Simple points such as "What if Michael never got Pippen", "What if Grant Hill didn't get injured" follow along my logic. Some of you will be quick to say, forget the what-if's, but that isn't the point.

The point is that there are many other things to take into consideration when determining how great a player was aside from championships. Generally, I consider individual performance and achievements to be extremely important as well. You can get into many specific aspects of it, but generally, that's what I'm talking about. An example of this is the consensus that Hakeem is either the GOAT center or at least better than Shaq despite the difference in rings.

This is what separates a player like MJ from Russell.

[Simple Jack]

Kenny Smith (of all people) had to explain to Lebron what "killer instinct" was all about.

And he's supposed to be the GOAT?

Overrated aspect of the game. If the dude is dropping these stats all playoffs and wins the ring nonchalantly, you're going to knock him for that? It's all about performance and achievements, not the attitude fans perceive you have about the game.

[Da_Realist]

Not supporting the OP AT ALL, but in all fairness, Jordan was making the playoffs with 30 win seasons, so that evens out the fact that he was bounced early by amazing teams in the playoffs.

Chicago made the playoffs in 86 after winning only 30 games, but MJ only played 18 games that season -- and only 3 before his injury. After the injury, the Bulls front office limited his minutes.

On another note...it needs to be mentioned that Jordan put up those numbers against teams that you agree were amazing. Let's be fair here...the teams MJ faced during that time were much better than the teams Lebron is dominating.

MJ put up better numbers in a physically more intimidating league playing in an offense that is similar to the type of offense Lebron is playing in right now (the superstar dominates the ball and makes most of the decisions). I'm actually more impressed with MJ's game from 90 on because he put up amazing numbers while sharing touches with Scottie Pippen.

[oh the horror]

Im sorry but this is silly.

Until Lebron James has done something with his career, then all he is at this point is a VERY VERY GOOD PLAYER THAT HAS NO ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING OTHER THAN ONE MVP.


There have been tons of great players come and gone who havent had much to look back on in their careers, and Lebron thus far is one, until it is all said and done, and he has a track record as awesome as Mike's.


Im sorry, but that is the way pro sports are looked at.

[andgar923]

Overrated aspect of the game. If the dude is dropping these stats all playoffs and wins the ring nonchalantly, you're going to knock him for that? It's all about performance and achievements, not the attitude fans perceive you have about the game.

I agree to an extent, but its that mentality he'll need when he's faced with adversity.

He's yet to be seriously challenged in the playoffs, and we're also talking about a CAREER, not just "a" post season.

What will happen when teams in the east start to build their teams solely to stop him?

When teams start to draft players solely to stop him?

How will he react when his back is against the wall and the chips are stacked against him (I just wanted to use as many corny cliches as possible)?

Will he rise? or will he fail?

And that mentality is what separates all stars from hall of famers and hall of famers to LEGENDS.

The drive to prove to the others.... "I'm better than you.. I'm the best player in the world."

And like many have mentioned, their games aren't even close. MJ's game>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron's.

Bron has a better 3pt shot, but that's about it. And even that can be argued by some.

The only part of Bron's game that I'd say is on par with MJ's is his passing. Other than that, he has alot to grow if people wanna compare him to MJ.

[oh the horror]

Overrated aspect of the game. If the dude is dropping these stats all playoffs and wins the ring nonchalantly, you're going to knock him for that? It's all about performance and achievements, not the attitude fans perceive you have about the game.


Killer instinct is an overrated aspect of the game? What are you, 12 years old?

[Simple Jack]

I agree to an extent, but its that mentality he'll need when he's faced with adversity.

He's yet to be seriously challenged in the playoffs, and we're also talking about a CAREER, not just "a" post season.

What will happen when teams in the east start to build their teams solely to stop him?

When teams start to draft players solely to stop him?

How will he react when his back is against the wall and the chips are stacked against him (I just wanted to use as many corny cliches as possible)?

Will he rise? or will he fail?

And that mentality is what separates all stars from hall of famers and hall of famers to LEGENDS.

The drive to prove to the others.... "I'm better than you.. I'm the best player in the world."

And like many have mentioned, their games aren't even close. MJ's game>>>>>>>>>>>> Bron's.

Bron has a better 3pt shot, but that's about it. And even that can be argued by some.

The only part of Bron's game that I'd say is on par with MJ's is his passing. Other than that, he has alot to grow if people wanna compare him to MJ.

Rebounding, passing, penetrating? These are all arguable in favor of LeBron.

[Simple Jack]

Killer instinct is an overrated aspect of the game? What are you, 12 years old?

As is experience. If you win, you win; doesn't matter how or why. A lackadaisical attitude that results in a great performance and a win is just that; a win.

[andgar923]

Rebounding, passing, penetrating? These are all arguable in favor of LeBron.

Dude..... Bron is a 6'8 monster, he should be averaging way more than he does. Mj was a better rebounder, I mean.... Bron gets boxed out by Kobe... c'mon!

Passing I already mentioned is about the same.

Penetrating? dude...... you obviously never saw MJ play.

[kap]

look how much harder defense they played on jordan than they did on lebron. no one dares to play defense on lebron, from fear of being knocked down. the only one i saw play intense defense (and succeed) against lebron is kobe (yes, i just mentioned kobe in this thread)

[PleezeBelieve]

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAHE097_8x10~Dwyane-Wade-With-MVP-And-2006-Finals-Trophies-Posters.jpg

Dwayne Wade has 1 championship. Dwayne Wade>Michael Jordan.

I swear, some of the dumbest people on Earth post here on ISH. Why not enjoy Lebron's career for what it is? ESPN has brainwashed all of you into always equating any perimeter player who's ever dunked a basketball with the greatest of all time. Lebron will go down as one of the greatest players the game has ever seen, but he's only 24 years old (scary when you think about how good he can be). His game has little similarity to MJ's, the guy is built like a PF, so there's no REAL comparison. Whether you want to believe it or not, Lebron has a very far way to go before he's even in the conversation. How does 1 championship leap frog him over Jordan in the first place? That's the epitome of illogical reasoning :hammerhead: . And let's not make believe that the Bulls of the 90s were so much better than the Cavs (from a talent standpoint). They were both defensive oriented teams and while MJ's sidekick is much better than Bron's, I think the Cavs are much deeper than the Bulls were (the first 3 peat anyway).

Let Lebron be Lebron, enjoy his greatness for the unique phenomenon that it is. Don't let ESPN's pathetic attempt to garner ratings by proclaiming him as the 32nd 'next Michael Jordan' ruin his individual legacy. Look at how maligned Kobe has been, instead of people letting his career stand alone, he is CONSTANTLY compared to (and falling very short of) MJ's legacy. It's not fair to guys like him who will always be undervalued because they can't live up to the loftiest of expectations despite being great players themselves.

I have an inkling that when it's all said and done Lebron James will be remembered as one of the 5 best players ever, but it's just speculation. Right now I just enjoy watching him look like a man amongst children while displaying his awesome talent. Everyone should try to do the same. The league is going through a mini renaissance but people won't realize this and can't enjoy it if they are constantly looking to the past...
Listen up, I think its time to watch your mouth. The thing I state in behalf of LeBron have NOTHING to do with ESPN or anything other media outlet.

I first saw LeBron when he was 16, duke. By the time he was 17, I was on ISH stating he would be the Greatest Athelete In The History Of Sport.

I called it then. What makes you think I'm going to be wrong now?

Your posts?

Psssh, please. The think I state are way beyond what you can capture. You're too busy defending a players' legacy who cares very little about you as a fan. Jordan was great but LeBron WILL BE better one day. Don't know the day or season exactly, but it is a foregane conclusion.

Nothing you or I say can change this.

So you see, you know understand why I laugh at Kobe Fan and soon-to-be Jordan. This sh*t is way bigger than your weird fetishes for players that care less about you. LeBron from the first time I noticed him did the following at a level I hadn't seen ever:

Pass
Lead
Will
Explode
Jump

But you know what else? I'm talking what seemingly extends beyond the basketball court, but not in LeBron's case, tho. It seemed to matter to him and the ppeople around him. He was the BEST FRIEND I 've seen a b-ball be in person. He genuinely cared about the people around him.

In that aspect I believe Jordan to be ggreatly overrated. Dude just happen to go through his prime while a certain 6'8 forward blossomed in front of our eyes.

Jordan would have nothing without Pip.

Now tell me where's LeBron's Pip?

Huh?

I'm waiting....

[NBASTATMAN]

look how much harder defense they played on jordan than they did on lebron. no one dares to play defense on lebron, from fear of being knocked down. the only one i saw play intense defense (and succeed) against lebron is kobe (yes, i just mentioned kobe in this thread)

Kobe just let lebron go right by him... Lebron missed almost every layup he took because gasol bynum and lamar were waiting.. Even Phil said that.. The only guys who have played great defense on lebron are paul pierce , ron artest, battier, posey, and Richard Jefferson even though rich got killed by him this year...

[Da_Realist]

Jordan would have nothing without Pip.

Now tell me where's LeBron's Pip?

Huh?

I'm waiting....

Different league. I don't think Jordan would have much of a problem in a league with only 2 legitimate championship contenders or in a league that abhors physicality.

There was a reason Jordan needed Pippen, Magic needed Kareem, Bird needed Mchale, Doc needed Moses, etc. It's because the league REQUIRED it. You couldn't win back then with the team Lebron has now.

[NBASTATMAN]

Listen up, I think its time to watch your mouth. The thing I state in behalf of LeBron have NOTHING to do with ESPN or anything other media outlet.

I first saw LeBron when he was 16, duke. By the time he was 17, I was on ISH stating he would be the Greatest Athelete In The History Of Sport.

I called it then. What makes you think I'm going to be wrong now?

Your posts?

Psssh, please. The think I state are way beyond what you can capture. You're too busy defending a players' legacy who cares very little about you as a fan. Jordan was great but LeBron WILL BE better one day. Don't know the day or season exactly, but it is a foregane conclusion.

Nothing you or I say can change this.

So you see, you know understand why I laugh at Kobe Fan and soon-to-be Jordan. This sh*t is way bigger than your weird fetishes for players that care less about you. LeBron from the first time I noticed him did the following at a level I hadn't seen ever:

Pass
Lead
Will
Explode
Jump

But you know what else? I'm talking what seemingly extends beyond the basketball court, but not in LeBron's case, tho. It seemed to matter to him and the ppeople around him. He was the BEST FRIEND I 've seen a b-ball be in person. He genuinely cared about the people around him.

In that aspect I believe Jordan to be ggreatly overrated. Dude just happen to go through his prime while a certain 6'8 forward blossomed in front of our eyes.

Jordan would have nothing without Pip.

Now tell me where's LeBron's Pip?

Huh?

I'm waiting....



Lebron is overrated... He is a great player but needs to improve in alot of areas... You will see this after the Hawks series and a team actually defends him with 4 people... lol. That is what the celtics do and the lakers as well...

[koBEDABEST]

Listen up, I think its time to watch your mouth. The thing I state in behalf of LeBron have NOTHING to do with ESPN or anything other media outlet.

I first saw LeBron when he was 16, duke. By the time he was 17, I was on ISH stating he would be the Greatest Athelete In The History Of Sport.

I called it then. What makes you think I'm going to be wrong now?

Your posts?

Psssh, please. The think I state are way beyond what you can capture. You're too busy defending a players' legacy who cares very little about you as a fan. Jordan was great but LeBron WILL BE better one day. Don't know the day or season exactly, but it is a foregane conclusion.

Nothing you or I say can change this.

So you see, you know understand why I laugh at Kobe Fan and soon-to-be Jordan. This sh*t is way bigger than your weird fetishes for players that care less about you. LeBron from the first time I noticed him did the following at a level I hadn't seen ever:

Pass
Lead
Will
Explode
Jump

But you know what else? I'm talking what seemingly extends beyond the basketball court, but not in LeBron's case, tho. It seemed to matter to him and the ppeople around him. He was the BEST FRIEND I 've seen a b-ball be in person. He genuinely cared about the people around him.

In that aspect I believe Jordan to be ggreatly overrated. Dude just happen to go through his prime while a certain 6'8 forward blossomed in front of our eyes.

Jordan would have nothing without Pip.

Now tell me where's LeBron's Pip?

Huh?

I'm waiting....

this is the first time i ever see someone atrributing jordan's whole career to pippen and not the contrary(not trying to say pippen would've been a nobody without jordan)

lol and ur logic doesnt even make sene. ur saying that lebron will be greater becuz hes doing(by ur words) everything mj has done but without no player of the level of "pip" even tough he has a better team? wow...

[Mdog1]

If LeBron James wins a ring this season with this roster it is a greater achievement than anything MJ did in any individual season. LeBron getting to the finals in 07 was a greater achievement than Jordan had in his first 6 years as well. LeBron will go down as the GOAT if his career continues in the direction it has so far because he will already have his first championship 3 full years before MJ got his.

[Indian guy]

Andgar23 making a fool of himself as usual.

You judge a player on his EFFECTIVENESS, not on his "game". If LeBron ever becomes a more effective player than MJ, then his "game/skills" won't matter. He WILL be better because he's the more impactful player.

The whole "he is more skilled" BS is what Kobe fans use to argue Kobe >/= MJ. Don't be a retard like them.

[Simple Jack]

Dude..... Bron is a 6'8 monster, he should be averaging way more than he does. Mj was a better rebounder, I mean.... Bron gets boxed out by Kobe... c'mon!

Passing I already mentioned is about the same.

Penetrating? dude...... you obviously never saw MJ play.

Using his height to diminish his rebounding abilities is retarded.

Should be diminish Kobe's shooting ability because he's a SG? Absolutely not. We are analyzing all parts of the game.

LeBron shouldn't have the passing ability he does. I don't know if you played organized basketball or not, but a SF has no business making the passes LeBron does. That's not a responsibility of the position.

"you obviously never saw MJ play." :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Indian guy]

There was a reason Jordan needed Pippen

Jordan didn't need Pippen to win a championship, he needed him to tear the league apart. Bulls would've still won a bunch of championships(not 6, but about 3) with just an All Star in Pip's place and not the Top 30-40 All Time Great Pip himself.

[NBASTATMAN]

Im sorry but this is silly.

Until Lebron James has done something with his career, then all he is at this point is a VERY VERY GOOD PLAYER THAT HAS NO ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING OTHER THAN ONE MVP.


There have been tons of great players come and gone who havent had much to look back on in their careers, and Lebron thus far is one, until it is all said and done, and he has a track record as awesome as Mike's.


Im sorry, but that is the way pro sports are looked at.



I think Lebron is going to be great and all but this thread is like the Kobe ones where he was suppose to be better than Mj.. We know how that turned out.. Please let lebron do something before you compare him to mj... Sheesh at least kobe has won titles even though he was the pippen to shaq... Stop it .. NOW..

[Simple Jack]

Lebron is overrated... He is a great player but needs to improve in alot of areas... You will see this after the Hawks series and a team actually defends him with 4 people... lol. That is what the celtics do and the lakers as well...

What areas does he need to improve on?

People 3 years ago said he wasn't clutch; he's the most effective player in the clutch.

People said he couldn't shoot. He led Kobe on 3pt % for part of the season.

People said he wasn't a good defender. He was 2nd in DPOY voting, a 1st team all defender and one of the most versatile defenders to play in the league.

Is there anything else you want to knock this kid for? This reminds me of all the doubters of MJ when he came in the league.

[NBASTATMAN]

If LeBron James wins a ring this season with this roster it is a greater achievement than anything MJ did in any individual season. LeBron getting to the finals in 07 was a greater achievement than Jordan had in his first 6 years as well. LeBron will go down as the GOAT if his career continues in the direction it has so far because he will already have his first championship 3 full years before MJ got his.

If is a big word.... Lebron and the Cavs will not win a title this year..Too many wholes on that roster.. Trust me they will fall short that I am sure of... Lebron has to do way too much....... Watch and learn.....If I am wrong I will admit it after the season but as of now Lebron is going to be great but at this point is overrated....

[NBASTATMAN]

What areas does he need to improve on?

People 3 years ago said he wasn't clutch; he's the most effective player in the clutch.

People said he couldn't shoot. He led Kobe on 3pt % for part of the season.

People said he wasn't a good defender. He was 2nd in DPOY voting, a 1st team all defender and one of the most versatile defenders to play in the league.

Is there anything else you want to knock this kid for? This reminds me of all the doubters of MJ when he came in the league.



Give me a break the guy looks mj like because the defense is garbage... Any team that has the ability to make him work will bring him down to earth... Watch... and learn...

[Mdog1]

Jordan didn't need Pippen to win a championship, he needed him to tear the league apart. Bulls would've still won a bunch of championships(not 6, but about 3) with just an All Star in Pip's place and not the Top 30-40 All Time Great Pip himself.
I have to question if the Bulls would have won any championships without Pippen. I mean who are we putting in his position instead?

[Mdog1]

If is a big word.... Lebron and the Cavs will not win a title this year..Too many wholes on that roster.. Trust me they will fall short that I am sure of... Lebron has to do way too much....... Watch and learn.....If I am wrong I will admit it after the season but as of now Lebron is going to be great but at this point is overrated....
They have wholes in their roster? I think you meant holes ;). But yes they do, but they also have the greates scotch tape to ever play the game. They have a PG in a PF's body that can guard anyone in the league and can play any position. The Cavs already have won the NBA championship this season. The NBA just has not given it to them yet.

[Batman]

I don't know what is worse if the Lakers win the championship there is going to be a thousand Kobe is better on is on par with Jordan threads. If the Cavs win the championship there is going to be a thousand LeBron is better or on par with Jordan threads. I don't know about you guys, but i am crossing my fingers that Orlando can beat the Cavs and the Nuggets can beat the Lakers, so we don't have to deal with that garbage this year.

[Simple Jack]

Give me a break the guy looks mj like because the defense is garbage... Any team that has the ability to make him work will bring him down to earth... Watch... and learn...


Watch? LeBron in the past has done very well against great teams.

On a side note, people seem to be forgetting how much attention LeBron actually draws. When you have someone like Pippen on a team who can create his own plays with ease as well, it's a lot harder to lock down on a single person. You think LeBron would have had single coverage as Jordan did against Russel at the end of the game in the Finals? That's not a knock on Jordan either; I think he's the greatest as of now, but to simply deny the fact that LeBron has the tools to possibly become the greatest ever is stupid.

[Raps4Life]

Jordan would have nothing without Pip.


That's where you lost all credibility....that and your opening post.

[Big#50]

Lebron is already better.

[OldSchoolBBall]

man screw the damn david stern award show im talking BASKETBALL PLAY, statistically Jordan still owns with he always avging at least 30 ppg at 50% fg but LeBron is a much better rebounder, just as good defender, and as good a passer, if he can ever shoot 80% fts LeBon will average 40 ppg

Lebron is not a "much better rebounder" than Jordan. He might be marginally better (and even then, it's only relative to his size), but that's about it. Jordan was a superior offensive rebounder, for example, and their average/peak RbR's are similar.

LOL @ Lebron being "just as good a defender" as Jordan. I mean, wow... :oldlol:

[juju151111]

sCOTTIE pIPPEN WASN'T A ALLSTAR IN 91. sTOP MAKING **** UP.MJ=GOAT

[OldSchoolBBall]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

In a LeBron v Jordan scenario, LeBron beats him 7 out of 10 times. His doinance is too much for Jordan to overcome. Frankly, Lebron can check Jordan adequately while Jordan would stand no chancve versus LeBron.

Game. Set. Match.

Lebon can somehow "check Jordan adequately," but Jordan, one of the greatest defenders in history, would "stand no chance" vs. Lebron? :oldlol: Okay...

You should look at how many times Lebron has stunk it up in series vs. how many times Jordan has stunk it up in series to see which of these two is more capable of being "stopped."

[asu77golf]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

In a LeBron v Jordan scenario, LeBron beats him 7 out of 10 times. His doinance is too much for Jordan to overcome. Frankly, Lebron can check Jordan adequately while Jordan would stand no chancve versus LeBron.

Game. Set. Match.

Oh yeah? :oldlol:

7 out of 10 huh? Where do you come up with this horse ****?

LMAO. step away from you keyboard for the love of God

[Fatal9]

On top of Lebron's glaring weakness on offensive boards people also need to consider that Lebron collects rebounds of missed FTs (easiest rebounds in the game) when one of the PFs or Cs are taking a rest. This adds on average probably 1-1.5 rebounds to his rebounding numbers.

Passing wise, it is also not even close. IMO best passing version of Jordan was '88-'91. Some of the passes he was throwing on a regular basis against the Piston defense were :eek:. I've never see Lebron have that type of a feel and awareness on offense.

Lebron doesn't have an edge in a single meaningful category.

[Simple Jack]

On top of Lebron's glaring weakness on offensive boards people also need to consider that Lebron collects rebounds of missed FTs (easiest rebounds in the game) when one of the PFs or Cs are taking a rest. This adds on average probably 1-1.5 rebounds to his rebounding numbers.

Passing wise, it is also not even close. IMO best passing version of Jordan was '88-'91. Some of the passes he was throwing on a regular basis against the Piston defense were :eek:. I've never see Lebron have that type of a feel and awareness on offense.

Lebron doesn't have an edge in a single meaningful category.

LeBron is a better passer than Jordan, and a better rebounder. Jordan gets the nod everywhere else.

You blind fans are really terrible for the sport. Sports evolve and progress. Eventually there will be someone better than Jordan and it's going to be sad because fans like you will never admit it and give the guy his due credit. That's not to say LeBron is that guy, but the point remains.

[Mdog1]

On top of Lebron's glaring weakness on offensive boards people also need to consider that Lebron collects rebounds of missed FTs (easiest rebounds in the game) when one of the PFs or Cs are taking a rest. This adds on average probably 1-1.5 rebounds to his rebounding numbers.

Passing wise, it is also not even close. IMO best passing version of Jordan was '88-'91. Some of the passes he was throwing on a regular basis against the Piston defense were :eek:. I've never see Lebron have that type of a feel and awareness on offense.

Lebron doesn't have an edge in a single meaningful category.
Jordan is nowhere near the passer that LeBron James is. Sorry MJ was a very good passer, but Jordan couldn't make most of the passes LeBron does on a consistant basis.

[juju151111]

Jordan is nowhere near the passer that LeBron James is. Sorry MJ was a very good passer, but Jordan couldn't make most of the passes LeBron does on a consistant basis.
hmmm yes he could. LOL you can tell you didn't watch Mj.

[Lebron23]

hmmm yes he could. LOL you can tell you didn't watch Mj.

But you need to watch LeBron this year because he's going to have the Highest Per in NBA playoffs history.

[Mdog1]

hmmm yes he could. LOL you can tell you didn't watch Mj.
LOL just shows that you have never watched both play. Maybe a highlight reel of Jordan here or there, but LeBron James is an amazing passer. It is the best part to his offensive game. Jordan on the other hand is still a great passer and by being a lesser passer than LeBron it in no way takes away from his legacy, but he is not LeBrons equal as a passer.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan is nowhere near the passer that LeBron James is.

:oldlol:

Dude, seriously, stop talking out of your ass please. Jordan was a tremendous passer. Go watch any series from the '90 or '91 playoffs or any of the Dream Team games, where he was the best passer on the floor (better than Magic during those games). I think Lebron has slightly better vision from the perimeter, but Jordan was comparable, and he was also a better interior passer on penetrations and post ups. MJ's passing skill (technical skill) was also superior to Lebron's right now.

At any rate, using language like "nowhere near" just exposes the fact that you've never watched much of Jordan when he actually had to do everything for the Bulls.

[juju151111]

But you need to watch LeBron this year because he's going to have the Highest Per in NBA playoffs history.
per is a dumb stat.Mj in 91 through 5 gms in the finals were better yet LJ per is better.LJ is going against thrash teams and he better hope orlando doesn't get by boston.There gameplan stops him easily.Dwight just clogs the paint.

[gabeh1018]

If i make my first business deal tomorrow, am I better than Donald Trump?

[Lebron23]

per is a dumb stat.Mj in 91 through 5 gms in the finals were better yet LJ per is better.LJ is going against thrash teams and he better hope orlando doesn't get by boston.There gameplan stops him easily.Dwight just clogs the paint.


LeBron will posterize Dwight Howard in the Eastern Conference Finals. You are the same guy that predicted that Wade would beat LeBron in the playoffs, but the Hawks owned the Heat in the First Round of the playoffs.

Shaq played againts Thrash teams in the 2000, 2001 and 2002 NBA Finals, but we still regarded him as the most dominant center of all time because he won 3 straight NBA Championships.

[juju151111]

LOL just shows that you have never watched both play. Maybe a highlight reel of Jordan here or there, but LeBron James is an amazing passer. It is the best part to his offensive game. Jordan on the other hand is still a great passer and by being a lesser passer than LeBron it in no way takes away from his legacy, but he is not LeBrons equal as a passer.
LOL I watch about 80% of cavs game a year.LJ is a great passer from the perimeter because of his hieght, but thats all. yea LJ is a slightly better passer.I agree with that.

[juju151111]

LeBron will posterize Dwight Howard in the Eastern Conference Finals.
LOL Just like he did this year right? Orlando and Bostom(with KG)can stop LJ easily.Dwight just plays off Z and clogs the lane where LJ is.

[juju151111]

LeBron will posterize Dwight Howard in the Eastern Conference Finals. You are the same guy that predicted that Wade would beat LeBron in the playoffs, but the Hawks owned the Heat in the First Round of the playoffs.

Shaq played againts Thrash teams in the 2000, 2001 and 2002 NBA Finals, but we still regarded him as the most dominant center of all time because he won 3 straight NBA Championships.
LOL Wade didn't play LJ so how could beat him.I never said Wade team will beat his. I sauid he would of outplayed him. Since they didn't play then it means noting. LOL Shaq went through portland,spurs etc... The pacers wasn't a weak team.

[Mdog1]

:oldlol:

Dude, seriously, stop talking out of your ass please. Jordan was a tremendous passer. Go watch any series from the '90 or '91 playoffs or any of the Dream Team games, where he was the best passer on the floor (better than Magic during those games). I think Lebron has slightly better vision from the perimeter, but Jordan was comparable, and he was also a better interior passer on penetrations and post ups. MJ's passing skill (technical skill) was also superior to Lebron's right now.

At any rate, using language like "nowhere near" just exposes the fact that you've never watched much of Jordan when he actually had to do everything for the Bulls.
LOL at you. Jordan is a great talent, but he doesn't and isn't the best at every tihng. Soon I am going to be hearing that MJ was the GOAT rebounder as well. Seriously you are getting to be a huge joke and enough is enough already. Just stop posting, watch some Lefootage, then compare it to MJ footage and you will see how much better of a passer that LeBron actually is than MJ. The proof in this case is not just in the numbers but rather it is in the passes.

By admitting Jordan is not as good of a passer than LeBron in no way deminishes his legacy. It just proves that you are reasonable and actually have watched basketball since Jordans retirement.

[Lebron23]

LOL Just like he did this year right? Orlando and Bostom(with KG)can stop LJ easily.Dwight just plays off Z and clogs the lane where LJ is.

:no: :no: :no:

Magic are 2-1 againts the Cavs in the Regular Season, but LeBron scored 43 points at the Quicken Loans Arena.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYwkEU6usH0


Without Lee and Nelson the Magic are not going to beat the Cavs in a best of 7 series.

And LeBron is a much better playoffs performer than Superman.

[Lebron23]

LOL Wade didn't play LJ so how could beat him.I never said Wade team will beat his. I sauid he would of outplayed him. Since they didn't play then it means noting. LOL Shaq went through portland,spurs etc... The pacers wasn't a weak team.


Check Wade's stats againts the Hawks. :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

LeBron>>>>>Hawks>>> Wade

[OldSchoolBBall]

Seriously you are getting to be a huge joke and enough is enough already. Just stop posting, watch some Lefootage, then compare it to MJ footage and you will see how much better of a passer that LeBron actually is than MJ. The proof in this case is not just in the numbers but rather it is in the passes.

That's only because most MJ videos usually recycle the same highlights. How about you go watch the actual games (which you clearly haven't done) and see for yourself.


By admitting Jordan is not as good of a passer than LeBron in no way deminishes his legacy. It just proves that you are reasonable and actually have watched basketball since Jordans retirement.

It's not about whether Lebron is a better passer or not (maybe he is, but it's marginal). It's about you using ridiculous language like "nowhere near" to describe the situation. That's just silly. Jordan was a comparable passer; of that there is no doubt in my mind, because, you know, I've actually watched the games rather than looked up a "Lebron passing" mix on youtube and searched in vain for a "Jordan passing" mix (which doesn't exist). Watch the games.

[juju151111]

:no: :no: :no:

Magic are 2-1 againts the Cavs in the Regular Season, but LeBron scored 43 points at the Quicken Loans Arena.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYwkEU6usH0


Without Lee and Nelson the Magic are not going to beat the Cavs in a best of 7 series.

And LeBron is a much better playoffs performer than Superman.
??? Lee already came back. All Howard needs to do is grab rebounds and clog the lane.

[Mdog1]

That's only because most MJ videos usually recycle the same highlights. How about you go watch the actual games (which you clearly haven't done) and see for yourself.



It's not about whether Lebron is a better passer or not (maybe he is, but it's marginal). It's about you using ridiculous language like "nowhere near" to describe the situation. That's just silly. Jordan was a comparable passer; of that there is no doubt in my mind, because, you know, I've actually watched the games rather than look up a "Lebron passing" mix on youtube and searched in vain for a "Jordan passing" mix (which doesn't exist). Watch the games.
I have seen a lot of Jordan games. The defense he faced was laughable but that is a different discussion. The pace they played at was also much different. Jordans every thing is inflated due to this, much like Wilts and Oscars. Jordan could not make a lot of the passes that LeBron does on a regular basis and the sooner you realise that the sooner you will be freed from this media driven falsity that has you believe Jordan is the GOAT every thing.

[oh the horror]

I have seen a lot of Jordan games. The defense he faced was laughable but that is a different discussion. The pace they played at was also much different. Jordans every thing is inflated due to this, much like Wilts and Oscars. Jordan could not make a lot of the passes that LeBron does on a regular basis and the sooner you realise that the sooner you will be freed from this media driven falsity that has you believe Jordan is the GOAT every thing.



But cant someone also make an argument with Lebron's numbers being also inflated due to changed defensive rules?

[OldSchoolBBall]

I have seen a lot of Jordan games. The defense he faced was laughable but that is a different discussion. The pace they played at was also much different. Jordans every thing is inflated due to this, much like Wilts and Oscars. Jordan could not make a lot of the passes that LeBron does on a regular basis and the sooner you realise that the sooner you will be freed from this media driven falsity that has you believe Jordan is the GOAT every thing.

:oldlol:

The Bulls always played at a 93-97 pace, btw. Way to discredit yourself acting like they were the Showtime Lakers out there. They hardly ever ran. Their # of possessions (which again wasn't that much) was largely due to forced TO's on defense.

LMAO @ "the defense he faced was laughable." You're on a roll! :oldlol:

[juju151111]

I have seen a lot of Jordan games. The defense he faced was laughable but that is a different discussion. The pace they played at was also much different. Jordans every thing is inflated due to this, much like Wilts and Oscars. Jordan could not make a lot of the passes that LeBron does on a regular basis and the sooner you realise that the sooner you will be freed from this media driven falsity that has you believe Jordan is the GOAT every thing.
:lol LOL Go watch the 92 ECF where oakley and ewing was guarding the paint and the commentator said Mj was forced to take jumpers. He was like 8-11 in gm 1 and 9-12 in gm 2 etc.... Stay off the fuking crack.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Lebron has seen countless wide open lanes in the Atlanta series in the games I've watched. Once he gets past his defender, it was open sailing. No help, no shotblockers, nothing.

Obviously other teams play (much) better defense than Atlanta, but things like this are what make comments like yours laughable.

[Mdog1]

Defense until 03 was just terrible. In the 80's it was much worse when teams faced single coverage and the 90's there was no zone. If MJ played the zone he would not be a 30PPG career scorer.

[Ruslan`]

Threadstarter and everyone who question whether Jordan is better than LeBron need to do all of us a favor and ****ing kill themselves.

[oh the horror]

Lebron has seen countless wide open lanes in the Atlanta series in the games I've watched. Once he gets past his defender, it was open sailing. No help, no shotblockers, nothing.

Obviously other teams play (much) better defense than Atlanta, but things like this are what make comments like yours laughable.



No. Detroit and Atlantas defense is far better than the laughable defense in the 80s and 90s dude. :rolleyes:

[juju151111]

Defense until 03 was just terrible. In the 80's it was much worse when teams faced single coverage and the 90's there was no zone. If MJ played the zone he would not be a 30PPG career scorer.
:roll: :lol ur killing me. Watch the 92 ECFb where knicks played zone and it didn't effect MJ

[oh the horror]

And not only that, but Jordan had to deal with double teams, and triple teams when players were allowed to handcheck. GIVE ME A BREAK.

[PleezeBelieve]

Lebron has seen countless wide open lanes in the Atlanta series in the games I've watched. Once he gets past his defender, it was open sailing. No help, no shotblockers, nothing.

Obviously other teams play (much) better defense than Atlanta, but things like this are what make comments like yours laughable.
Uhh, maybe its because teams have to guard the Cavs perimeter players this year.

Maybe its because teams have to honor LeBron's jumper.

But then again, maybe its cause LeBron has improved within the paint with change of direction dribbles.

Uhh, pick one.

[AznTacoLover]

uhm... Lebron is not yet in dicussion with jordan yet. dudes only in hos 6th year. let's see if he wins maybe 3-4 championships. we'll talk about it,

[oh the horror]

See, this is why I hate comparing players to Mike.


Prime Mike isnt playing now, and prime Lebron didnt play back then. There is NO REAL WAY to measure this.

[Indian guy]

Lebron has seen countless wide open lanes in the Atlanta series in the games I've watched..

That's a major exaggeration. Wade couldn't get anything going on his drives against Atlanta in the first round. LeBron himself in Cavs-Hawks' regular season meetings struggled to get inside against them. If there's one thing Atlanta does well...it's protecting the paint. Majority of LeBron's successful drives to the rim in this series have come in transition situations.

[juju151111]

That's a major exaggeration. Wade couldn't get anything going on his drives against Atlanta in the first round. LeBron himself in Cavs-Hawks' regular season meetings struggled to get inside against them. If there's one thing Atlanta does well...it's protecting the paint. Majority of LeBron's successful drives to the rim in this series have come in transition situations.
True and horford being injured helped.

[Cyclone112]

juju and loki, its time for you guys to give up. You can't reason with pre-teen idiots such as pleezebelieve and Mdog, unfortunately as time passes more and more the Jordan era will be farther and farther away and more of these uneducated retards will come out of the woodwork and try to discredit someone they never even watched play the game.

Luckily for the time being it really only happens on forums/youtube because the internet is dominated by the younger generation but hopefully real news outlets and sporting companies such as ESPN don't eventually forget how great MJ is unless MJ is actually surpassed by someone.

[DonDadda59]

I have seen a lot of Jordan games. The defense he faced was laughable but that is a different discussion. The pace they played at was also much different. Jordans every thing is inflated due to this, much like Wilts and Oscars. Jordan could not make a lot of the passes that LeBron does on a regular basis and the sooner you realise that the sooner you will be freed from this media driven falsity that has you believe Jordan is the GOAT every thing.

Talking about media falsity, Kobe=MJ, Lebron=MJ, THAT's a media falsity :oldlol:.

And now to crush all the bull**** you spewed...

The Cavs played at a pace of about 89 this season, the second 3-peat Bulls were all in the 89-91 range... yeah, that's a huge difference. And the Cavs offense IS Lebron, the Bulls ran the triangle with Pippen being the main playmaker. If Jordan played Lebron's role his entire career (as he did early in his career) his lifetime numbers would put Lebron's to shame, somehwere in the 33 PPG 7 Rbs 7 Asts range. And I'll give Lebron having a slightly higher court vision sense, but to say that Jordan couldn't (when he has MANY times) make the passes Lebron does just exposes you for the misinformed clown you are.

And the defense- The 90s had the best defense, slowest pace, lowest PPG allowed, with the most physical and punishing brand of play the league has ever seen. Lebron is playing the great defensive team that is the Atlanta Hawks w/ no contact rules, no big man allowed to camp in the lane, and the defense in Jordan's day was 'laughable' :oldlol:. Lebron has a free pass to the basket, but he's in love with his 3-point shot, it's going in now, but wait until he faces the Magic or the Lakers and we'll see how much his shotjacking technique pays off. This is the weakest competition any 60 win team has faced in the playoffs, possibly ever. And their main competition will be a mentally soft team that got blown out by a team missing it's 2 best players? :wtf:

And the Bad Boys, Knicks, Heat, Magic, Cavs, etc of Jordan's day were laughable. Yeah, ok.

[Lebron23]

And this thread was started by a Hawks fan. I don't know if Donitbig206 became a witness after LeBron scored 47 points in Game 3.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

Defense until 03 was just terrible. In the 80's it was much worse when teams faced single coverage and the 90's there was no zone. If MJ played the zone he would not be a 30PPG career scorer.

You sir are an idiot. Educate yourself.


PHOTO: Zone defenses, legal since the start of the 2001-2 season, can be difficult to find in the N.B.A. The Minnesota Timberwolves employed one in a 2004 game against LeBron James, top, and the Cleveland Cavaliers. The zone has been mildly effective in spurts.(PHOTOGRAPH BY DAVID E. KLUTHO/SPORTS ILLUSTRATED -- GETTY IMAGES)

The game's elite players did not embrace zone defenses when they were introduced to the N.B.A. in 2001. They saw them as an infringement on the purity of their professional game.

Shaquille O'Neal detested the concept. Kobe Bryant feared his drives to the basket would be hindered by clogged lanes. So did Vince Carter.

''Hated it,'' Carter, of the Nets, said recently. ''A lot of guys did. It just changed the style of the game, especially if you played years before that, like myself. I wasn't too excited about it, but as the years have gone by, the old ways have passed us by. So, you adapt to what's going on.''

But the effect of zone defenses, since they became legal in the 2001-2 season, has been noticeable only to the trained eye. The concept of guarding areas instead of players is used fleetingly. It is largely viewed as a gimmick to be avoided in a league in which nearly everyone agrees that each player should be held accountable for guarding his own man.

To the originators of the change, however, the game is more aesthetically pleasing than before it took effect, when coaches were taking advantage of complex illegal-defense rules that encouraged a stagnant game.

''The game had become heavily reliant on one-on-one and two-on-two basketball,'' said Stu Jackson, the league's executive vice president for basketball operations. ''The game was not being played the way most experts felt it should be played and that a more free-flowing, up-tempo type of game should be showcased.''

Dismayed by the slowed game and sluggish scoring, the N.B.A.'s competition committee convened in Phoenix, looking to pick up the pace. Owners endorsed changes that trimmed the time allotted to move the ball to the frontcourt to 8 seconds from 10 and eliminated the illegal-defense rules.

''No one knew what illegal defense was,'' said Jerry Colangelo, a former owner of the Suns who was the chairman of the committee. ''It was kind of left to the eye of the beholder.''

Zone defense, widely used in high school and college basketball, was also introduced with a significant caveat. The committee instituted a three-second rule for defenders in order to prevent teams from parking taller players in the post. The goal was to free the lanes and encourage cuts and drives through the paint.

With those changes, among other factors, offenses have opened up, and scoring has climbed. Teams are averaging 99.7 points a game this season, up from 94.8 in 2000-1, the season before the new rules were introduced. Still, the zone defense has not been embraced in the N.B.A. It is mildly effective in spurts, but often dismissed.

''When you see it in the league, they do it because they can't guard somebody,'' Quentin Richardson of the Knicks said. ''If they're having a hard time stopping this person or that person or a team in general, and they can't do anything, teams play zone.''

The laundry list of the zone's shortcomings in the N.B.A. is relatively deep. Long-range shooters are truer in the N.B.A. than at any other level, and open shots are more easily found in the holes of zone defenses. N.B.A. players are better passers, so it is easier for them to whip the ball around the court to find the open man. Teams can grab offensive rebounds more effectively against a zone because opposing players have no set assignments on block-outs.

Then there's the stigma.

Asked how much zone defense the Cavaliers used, Cleveland Coach Mike Brown said none.

''It almost says, Hey, we can't guard these guys,'' Brown said. ''To a certain degree, psychologically, it makes you feel like you're conceding, and it could be a downer if it doesn't work.''

Beyond that, some say that N.B.A. coaches are hesitant to install a zone defense simply because they do not have a longstanding history with it or an encompassing knowledge of its intricacies.

''You still have a lot of coaches, general managers and assistant coaches that are old-school former players,'' Lakers guard Derek Fisher said. ''And the league is based on solid man-to-man principles. That's how they were taught the game. That's how they grew up playing the game. And it's difficult trying to teach something that you don't necessarily have a great feel for yourself.''

Earlier this season, the Denver Nuggets looked to add wrinkles to their defense, and briefly experimented with zone defenses.

''We practiced one for one week, and it was awful,'' Nuggets Coach George Karl said.

The Nets, the Golden State Warriors and the Dallas Mavericks are among the teams incorporating zone defenses to throw offenses off their rhythm or to guard an inbounds pass.

''You spend time teaching your zone and cleaning up your zone,'' Nets Coach Lawrence Frank said. ''But unless you're totally committed to zone, you're not going to spend nearly as much time on zone as you do your man defense. There's not enough time in the N.B.A. workweek.''

When a team switches to a zone, its opponent can become somewhat flustered. Most N.B.A. teams continue using the offense they would have used against a man-to-man defense.

The reason? If teams do not have enough time to practice a zone defense, they surely do not have time to introduce offenses to attack it.

''When teams do zone, offensively, we're not ready for it,'' Atlanta Hawks Coach Mike Woodson said. ''That's the crazy part behind it. Because you don't see zone that much, when you do see it, you're caught off guard.''

Karl said: ''My zone offense is to put three guys on the court who can make 3s and have them make a couple.''

But for Jackson, the N.B.A. executive vice president, how much teams use the zone is irrelevant. The goal was to open the floor and encourage a more balanced game.

''Our game today is more five-man orientated,'' Jackson said. ''The game looks better. There's not as much standing around.''

-Subtly, Zone Defense Helps Open Game

By JONATHAN ABRAMS, NY Times

So since the 'zone' was legalized scoring has gone up considerably and all coaches agree that it's useless against NBA calibre players. But Jordan, who had to endure REAL defenses, wouldn't average 30 against the 'zone'. I would be surprised if he didn't put up a few 40 PPG averages. :roll:

[DonDadda59]

Listen up, I think its time to watch your mouth. The thing I state in behalf of LeBron have NOTHING to do with ESPN or anything other media outlet.

I first saw LeBron when he was 16, duke. By the time he was 17, I was on ISH stating he would be the Greatest Athelete In The History Of Sport.

I called it then. What makes you think I'm going to be wrong now?

Your posts?

Psssh, please. The think I state are way beyond what you can capture. You're too busy defending a players' legacy who cares very little about you as a fan. Jordan was great but LeBron WILL BE better one day. Don't know the day or season exactly, but it is a foregane conclusion.

Nothing you or I say can change this.

So you see, you know understand why I laugh at Kobe Fan and soon-to-be Jordan. This sh*t is way bigger than your weird fetishes for players that care less about you. LeBron from the first time I noticed him did the following at a level I hadn't seen ever:

Pass
Lead
Will
Explode
Jump

But you know what else? I'm talking what seemingly extends beyond the basketball court, but not in LeBron's case, tho. It seemed to matter to him and the ppeople around him. He was the BEST FRIEND I 've seen a b-ball be in person. He genuinely cared about the people around him.

In that aspect I believe Jordan to be ggreatly overrated. Dude just happen to go through his prime while a certain 6'8 forward blossomed in front of our eyes.

Jordan would have nothing without Pip.

Now tell me where's LeBron's Pip?

Huh?

I'm waiting....

Seriously now, you're the biggest joke on a ****ing internet forum. I'd hate to see what your real life looks like.

I've given Lebron all the props in the world and I've said I can see him going down as a top 5 player all time, but that's just a guess. And I was watching his games on ESPN when he was in HS, so he's not some secret that you knew about before anyone else. People were writing articles from about '00-'06 about how Kobe was going to surpass Jordan, and look how badly that's blown up in their faces. But you should know all about that since you're obsessed with Jelly Bean. You're worse than any Kobe homer when it comes to the man.

So I think you're the one who should watch what you say. Don't ever ****ing address me like you know me.

[Fatal9]

Very dissapointed in oldschoobball giving way too much credibility to Lebron by saying he has a marginal edge over Jordan in passing. You of all the people should be able to see the huge difference between their offensive awareness. Lebron can swing passes very quickly to find shooters on the perimeter but in terms finding teammates in the lane/paint, fastbreak and mid range area Jordan has a huge edge.


That's a major exaggeration. Wade couldn't get anything going on his drives against Atlanta in the first round. LeBron himself in Cavs-Hawks' regular season meetings struggled to get inside against them. If there's one thing Atlanta does well...it's protecting the paint. Majority of LeBron's successful drives to the rim in this series have come in transition situations.
Wade almost voluntarily chose to jack jumpers. He uncharacteriscally fell in love with the 3 point shot, almost always taking 3s when Atlanta went on any sort of a run. When Wade chose to drive in, he had no problem drawing fouls (ie. in game 5 and 6).

[Indian guy]

Wade almost voluntarily chose to jack jumpers.

Not at all. His was continuously forced to take tough shots in the paint by Atlanta's pack it in D(not to mention their athleticism up front). His shot got blocked a bunch of times too. Wade was forced into playing the style he did.


When Wade chose to drive in, he had no problem drawing fouls (ie. in game 5 and 6).

GAme 6 was the only he game he had any success driving. In Game 5 Atlanta had built up a HUGE lead and were more concentrated on stopping the BIG shots(3pters) than protecting the paint. That's how Wade was able to squeeze in a few successful drives in the 2nd half. He struggled in the 1st half otherwise.


Very dissapointed in oldschoobball giving way too much credibility to Lebron by saying he has a marginal edge over Jordan in passing.

Both MJ and LeBron are terrific passers. You can't go wrong picking either guy in this category.


You of all the people should be able to see the huge difference between their offensive awareness.

What you call awareness is simply a product of the system they play in. The off-ball movement in Cleveland is very limited. Hardly anyone makes cuts to the rim and they don't run much either. Thus you don't see LeBron(or anyone else on Cleveland) making those sort of passes. Put LeBron in Adelman or Sloan's system and you'll see him executing those passes all the time.

[andgar923]

You sir are an idiot. Educate yourself.



So since the 'zone' was legalized scoring has gone up considerably and all coaches agree that it's useless against NBA calibre players. But Jordan, who had to endure REAL defenses, wouldn't average 30 against the 'zone'. I would be surprised if he didn't put up a few 40 PPG averages. :roll:

ETHER

[Duncan21formvp]

The way I look at things is... if two players had equal talent, then who would win?

In a LeBron v Jordan scenario, LeBron beats him 7 out of 10 times. His doinance is too much for Jordan to overcome. Frankly, Lebron can check Jordan adequately while Jordan would stand no chancve versus LeBron.

Game. Set. Match.

Lebron ended up with 2 bronze medals with superior talent. Also Lebron was the favorite in 2007. Cavs were the #2 seed while the Spurs were the #3 seed which means the Cavs were just as capable of winning. Lebron lost with the higher seed something Jordan never lost with.

[andgar923]

Lebron has the advantage of open lanes and height.
MJ was better at dissecting the defense and timing.

Both of them had/ve a great natural feel for the game and can make the "right" pass, along with the spectacular one.

The only negative thing I can think in regards Bron's passing, is his tendency to force it at times or over pass. But that's not a big deal to be honest. He's still one of the best passing big men of all time.

I would say MJ has the edge in regards to being a better passer from the post, but since Bron rarely posts, its hard to make that comparison.

[Da_Realist]

unfortunately as time passes more and more the Jordan era will be farther and farther away and more of these uneducated retards will come out of the woodwork and try to discredit someone they never even watched play the game.

Luckily for the time being it really only happens on forums/youtube because the internet is dominated by the younger generation but hopefully real news outlets and sporting companies such as ESPN don't eventually forget how great MJ is unless MJ is actually surpassed by someone.

Couldn't agree more. I'm about to go into hibernation myself. If someone has a great game, he'll be compared to MJ the next day. Great compliment to MJ...but everyone wants to feel like they are witnessing the best with their own eyes. A quote from someone on my youtube page -- The NBA can't survive with fans knowing the best has already come and gone.

[IInvented]

Lebron right now is as good as Jordan ever was.

You cannot argue otherwise. LeBron's FT shootingn can improve, but he makes up for with his floor game.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[miniharrison37]

LeBron won't be better than Jordan. As a Kobe fan, I admit LeBron is good, but I mean still, it's a little to early to compare him to Jordan when he has only won 1 MVP and not a championship yet.

[Duncan21formvp]

I got a question? If Lebron doesn't win the title this year wouldn't it make him a choke artist?

AFterall only 2 out of 14 teams that have won 65 games in a season have not won a title. 1973 with the Celtics due to injury and 2007 with Dallas.

Does Lebron want to be in that group?

Well Lebron or Kobe will be in that group regardless of what happens.

So one of them will be considered even more of a choker.

[DonDadda59]

ETHER

Yeah, I tried being civil about this whole thing. But certain people don't learn, I have no choice but to put them in their place. Just enjoy the game and don't speak of things you know nothing about and you won't get embarrassed.

[raptorfan_dr07]

This is the very issue that kills me about you all. Stare greatness in the face and put a middle finger to it.

MEMO: LeBron's been a great player. Ya know, even doings things Jordan never did?

Got it?


You're right, Lebron's doing things Jordan never did. I can't believe Jordan never got swept in the finals while putting up one of the worst performances in NBA history. Amazing! :bowdown:

And that same statement about staring greatness in the face yet ignoring it can be applied to you regarding Kobe.

[amfirst]

AL right we all know Jordan had the distinctive advantage of going to college, i do believe that helps sharper a teen players game for a year or two, and of course winning a championship there too helps

still 18 year old LeBron got way more attention then 21 year old micheal, LeBron was a undisputed lottery pick, Blazers everyone knows Bowied themselves, Cleveland his hometown has seemed his destiny so far and assuming no matter what he's offered, he's gonna resign with Cleveland

if you compare LeBron James in his 6th season and Micheal Jordan to his 6th season its incredible what LeBron has achieved at 24 years old

1st year - 04 rookie (19) 35-47
on a team that featured only ilgauskas boozer ricky davis darius miles and a mess of guards, leBron still averages good numbers, undisputed rookie of the year

20.9 ppg 5.9 rpg 5.5 apg 39.5 mpg .417 fg% .290 3ptfg .754 ft%

2nd year - 05 all star (20) 42-40
still ilguaskus and now gooden and unfortunately and probably mostly the reason the cavs missed the playoffs is cuz of PGs jeff mcginnis and ira newble but LeBron All-star leading the leauge in minutes played

27.2 ppg 7.4 rpg 7.2 apg 42.4 mpg 47.2 fg% 35.1 3pt% 75 ft%

3rd year - 06 team leader (21) 50-32
after trades that brought over larry hughes donyell marshall and damon jones the LeBron improved in all percentage catagories and leads his team to a 50 win season, the MVP debate began

playoffs
beat gilbert arenas wizards in 6 games
lost to east conf champ pistons in 7 games
30.9 ppg 8.8 rpg 8.1 apg 46.2 mpg 47.3 fg% 33.3 3pt% 73.7 ft%

4th year - 07 MVP play began (22) 50-32
in a second consecutive 50 win season with ilgauskus and the core, still without a great PG, the LeBron was 4th in the league in scoring and PER

playoffs
sleep wizards first good sign
swatted nets in 6 games
famously upsetted eastern conference champion at the time detroit pistons
got SWEPT by the hole at PG and tony parker
25.1 ppg 8.1 rpg 8.0 apg 44.6 mpg 41.3 fg% 28 3pt% 75 ft%

5th year - 08 defending eastern conference champs, but KG (23) 45-37
still second in their division to the pistons, due to the pistons and THEIR point guard (at the time) the cavs had no stability at that position and slipped a bit, kobe MVP

playoffs
routinely swat the wizards in 6 games
as the 4th seed played 1 seed eventual champion celtics to 7 epic games
28.2 ppg 7.8 rpg 7.6 apg 42.5 mpg 41.1 fg% 25.7 3pt% 73.1 ft%

6th year 09 MVP (24) 66-16
finally got their PG to start 81 games and be 2nd in scoring and assists and the cavs are the same as the celtics were the previous season or better, LeBron career high fg%, ft%, 3pt%, career low mpg

playoffs
routinely destroy shell pistons
atlanta's playing well against them and still losing in 5 (just 1 win please :D)
LeBron and Cavs beat defending champion celtics or DPOY led magic in 6
33.7 ppg 10.0 rpg 6.6 apg


of course this all depends on if LeBron wins the championship this season, because if he does, who in the eastern conference is to say they dont win it EVERY season for the next 10 damn years?!?

michael jordan won his 6 championships at age 27, 28, 29 and 32, 33, 34

if LeBron wins his first at 24 the NBA is in trouble

LeBron didn't go to college but he has the advantage of mimickin Kobe and MJ game.

[ukplayer4]

lmao, i used to wonder why please believe has crazed troll written under his name........now i know.

aside from the accomplishments lebron is nowhere near the shooter/deffender/post player or actually finisher mj was, lebron is a massive physical specimen but his touch going to the basket is total ****e compared with michael.

[raptorfan_dr07]

You know, I can kind of understand the weird logic these guys have. I was a young kid growing up in the 90's. Michael Jordan was IT. When we would play basketball at recess or after school and stuff, we all wanted to be like Mike, just like that song lol. We'd go home each night and watch games and come racing to school the next day asking everyone if they saw what Mike pulled off last night. In our minds, he was the greatest. None of us knew much about Magic Johnson or Kareem Abdul Jabbar or Larry Bird or Wilt Chamberlain, etc, other than that they were just names. We'd never seen them play and it was preposterous to us that anyone could insinuate that they were better than or equal to Jordan at the time. Jordan was our hero, our role model. Obviously, when all was said and done, he actually went on to be widely considered as the GOAT. I feel good knowing I can tell my kids one day that I got to witness the best there ever was.

What I'm trying to say is this new generation of kids, they're growing up with Kobe/Lebron/Wade, etc. That's who they know and how they measure greatness. To them, Michael Jordan is just a name, like how Magic, Larry, Kareem, etc was to us. As a little kid, you tend not to appreciate who came before and the marks they left on the game. You only focus on the now. I only wish I could have been able to see Magic and Larry in their primes, battling it out. I only wish I could have been able to witness Wilt and Bill Russell go at it, and then Wilt and Kareem. I only wish I could have seen the man they call Mr. Clutch. These guys were truly amazing and did some incredible things on the basketball court. Eventually, someone will come along and knock all these guys off their pedestals. I do know, that so far Lebron has a very steep mountain to climb. Whereas others have come and failed(T-Mac, AI, Kobe, Grant Hill), he still has a ways to go. Right now though, I think it's laughable to include him in the same sentence as the all time greats. Maybe when you get older, you'll look back and realize what I mean when kids are trying to proclaim that some new superstar is better than Lebron James ever was.

[ukplayer4]

yeah thats a good point i agree with, all they know is of greantness is bron and cant imagine anyone to be better....

[godofgods]

See, this is why I hate comparing players to Mike.


Prime Mike isnt playing now, and prime Lebron didnt play back then. There is NO REAL WAY to measure this.

And yet there are people claiming Kobe is greater than Bill Russell...

[nnn123]

You know, I can kind of understand the weird logic these guys have. I was a young kid growing up in the 90's. Michael Jordan was IT. When we would play basketball at recess or after school and stuff, we all wanted to be like Mike, just like that song lol. We'd go home each night and watch games and come racing to school the next day asking everyone if they saw what Mike pulled off last night. In our minds, he was the greatest. None of us knew much about Magic Johnson or Kareem Abdul Jabbar or Larry Bird or Wilt Chamberlain, etc, other than that they were just names. We'd never seen them play and it was preposterous to us that anyone could insinuate that they were better than or equal to Jordan at the time. Jordan was our hero, our role model. Obviously, when all was said and done, he actually went on to be widely considered as the GOAT. I feel good knowing I can tell my kids one day that I got to witness the best there ever was.

What I'm trying to say is this new generation of kids, they're growing up with Kobe/Lebron/Wade, etc. That's who they know and how they measure greatness. To them, Michael Jordan is just a name, like how Magic, Larry, Kareem, etc was to us. As a little kid, you tend not to appreciate who came before and the marks they left on the game. You only focus on the now. I only wish I could have been able to see Magic and Larry in their primes, battling it out. I only wish I could have been able to witness Wilt and Bill Russell go at it, and then Wilt and Kareem. I only wish I could have seen the man they call Mr. Clutch. These guys were truly amazing and did some incredible things on the basketball court. Eventually, someone will come along and knock all these guys off their pedestals. I do know, that so far Lebron has a very steep mountain to climb. Whereas others have come and failed(T-Mac, AI, Kobe, Grant Hill), he still has a ways to go. Right now though, I think it's laughable to include him in the same sentence as the all time greats. Maybe when you get older, you'll look back and realize what I mean when kids are trying to proclaim that some new superstar is better than Lebron James ever was.


Very well said, my friend.

:applause:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Defense until 03 was just terrible. In the 80's it was much worse when teams faced single coverage and the 90's there was no zone. If MJ played the zone he would not be a 30PPG career scorer.

:oldlol:

Right, because Kobe, Lebron, Arenas, Iverson, and Wade -- all inferior scorers to Jordan -- can average ~30+ ppg, but Jordan couldn't. Okay. :oldlol:

You just make yourself look more and more stupid with each post.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Very dissapointed in oldschoobball giving way too much credibility to Lebron by saying he has a marginal edge over Jordan in passing. You of all the people should be able to see the huge difference between their offensive awareness. Lebron can swing passes very quickly to find shooters on the perimeter but in terms finding teammates in the lane/paint, fastbreak and mid range area Jordan has a huge edge.


Jordan is definitely a visibly superior interior passer imo (on penetrations/post-ups/quick catches in the lane etc.). I said that already. Where Lebron may have a marginal edge is in his vision from the perimeter. Whether that's due to his size or his instincts/ability who knows. He's a fantastic passer, though. But he's not a "far superior" passer to Jordan (like MDog1 implied), especially not to the degree that his gaudy assist numbers suggest.

[nnn123]

To the OP:

I don't really see how you can say LBJ is better than MJ at this point....you can say that LBJ could have slightly better court vision, and a better rebounder, but that's about it. MJ was a better scorer, and a better defender. He didn't have the nice cast that LeBron has at the same age, but you also have to take into consideration that when MJ was tryin to win in the 80's, teams were stacked. You can't just compare MJ's supporting cast and LBJ's and leave it at that, you have to consider whether LBJ with his current cast could have taken the 80s Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, etc. And I don't think they could. Players back then had to have better casts if they wanted to contend for titles, because teams were so stacked.

I just say we enjoy LBJ's game while it lasts and stop trying to ruin it with these comparisons. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm sort of ashamed of this entire post because I'm doing exactly what I just condemned :D

[plowking]

Lebron better then Jordan?

What would seperate Lebron from players like Wade and Kobe with a championship? Nothing, really, apart from a brighter and bigger upside which there is no denying.

With one championship, he'd be behind Kobe still, and just in front of Wade. Wade has similar statistical domination while Kobe has the incredible resume and stats.

When he wins two championships and improves those stats further, then we will see some seperation between him and his current competition. There is no doubt Lebron will be a top 10 player of all time, though he needs the trophies and accolades to go along with it in order to get there, and 1 simply isn't enough.

[Alpha Wolf]

Lebron is already better then jordan in my book

[branslowski]

Lebron is already better then jordan in my book

:oldlol: And what book is that?

"How To Be A Dumbass: For Dummies"....??

[ukplayer4]

Lebron is already better then jordan in my book



your book is ****ing retarded.

[zay_24]

LeBron James does not have a LONG way to go before making it to MJ level as an induvidual and especially his making teammates better, his midrange has gotten stupid in these playoffs, he's shooting 55.5% dude, and his 3pt shot right now is better than Micheal Jordan's ever was, he doesn't post that often because he doesnt have to even at 6'8 260, and he's only 24
Lebron career high 3P%.351
Jordan career high 3P%.500,also shot .427

[miller-time]

Jordan had one all-star on his team in his prime; Lebron has one current all-star and three former all-stars (Ben Wallace, 4x; Big Z, 2x; Wally S 1x), a 4x defensive player of the year, and a former #1 draft pick.

both horace grant and bj armstrong were allstars in 94(?). and rodman is a former allstar as well.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron is already better then jordan in my book

Yeah just like Parker is already better than Kobe in mine. As Tony Parker has a finals MVP.

[plowking]

Yeah just like Parker is already better than Kobe in mine. As Tony Parker has a finals MVP.

Just like how Horry is better then Duncan. As Horry has more championships.

[stephanieg]

If he keeps averaging 34 ppg / 10 rpg / 6 apg on 55% throughout the playoffs and he does that for the next 9 or 10 years we'll see. But it's more likely he's abusing weak teams right now and his dominance will come back down once he plays better competition a la '07 and '08. Or maybe he's finally broken free?

Imagine what Jordan would do against these Hawks or Pistons...

Jordan didn't live in the 82games era so we don't really know if he was a better finisher than LeBron, who leads high usage perimeter players on inside finishing % by a wide margin. Jordan certainly had all the moves, but it may be a Wade situation. But probably fairly comparable actually.

But yeah, LBJ still needs to work on all the things people say he needs to because his skillset is far away from MJ's (to say the least). I also don't like when Cleveland plays LeBron ball. When he just holds and holds and holds. It is crazy how many end of quarter shots he hits though. Like 1 a game it seems.

The crazy thing is I think LeBron could be a potential top 3 PF instead because he's so big on the perimeter it's difficult for him to split double teams and fight through screens.

[Alpha Wolf]

Yeah just like Parker is already better than Kobe in mine. As Tony Parker has a finals MVP.



Kobe sacrificed MEANINGLESS personal awards so his TEAM could win....Kobe was the best player in the league when the Lakers were Champs....

Shaq won Finals MVP playing against Todd Mcculloch an over-the-hill Dikembe Mutombo and Rik Smits

[zay_24]

LMAO. This guy is the exact type of guy I'm talking about.

"LeBron BECOMING a great player"

:roll: :roll: :roll:


This is the very issue that kills me about you all. Stare greatness in the face and put a middle finger to it.

MEMO: LeBron's been a great player. Ya know, even doings things Jordan never did?Got it?
Like what?

[stephanieg]

Like what?

- Check for blood after every drive

- Master the crab dribble

- Average 5 TOs a game + 35% FG in a playoff series

[Duncan21formvp]

Just like how Horry is better then Duncan. As Horry has more championships.

How many finals MVP's does he have? Has he ever made the allstar team?

Don't be a dumb ass. Tony Parker has been an allstar yearly and has a finals MVP, something Kobe doesn't have.

[juju151111]

- Check for blood after every drive

- Master the crab dribble

- Average 5 TOs a game + 35% FG in a playoff series
lol

[Duncan21formvp]

Kobe sacrificed MEANINGLESS personal awards so his TEAM could win....Kobe was the best player in the league when the Lakers were Champs....

Shaq won Finals MVP playing against Todd Mcculloch an over-the-hill Dikembe Mutombo and Rik Smits

Dikembe was DPOY and was a 7x time allstar. Smits was an allstar as well and even one year outplayed Ewing.

Kobe didn't sacrifice anything, he just wasn't that good. He finished 12th, 9th and 5th in MVP voting, while Shaq finished 1st, 3rd and 3rd.

Kobe wasn't on Shaq's level and never has been. He was more on Vince Carter's level at the time.

[branslowski]

How many finals MVP's does he have? Has he ever made the allstar team?

Don't be a dumb ass. Tony Parker has been an allstar yearly and has a finals MVP, something Kobe doesn't have.

So, Tony Parker is better than LeBron?? Barkley?? Malone??

[Duncan21formvp]

[/B]

So, Tony Parker is better than LeBron?? Barkley?? Malone??

Those guys have led the league in PER before. Kobe hasn't.

[zay_24]

How many finals MVP's does he have? Has he ever made the allstar team?

Don't be a dumb ass. Tony Parker has been an allstar yearly and has a finals MVP, something Kobe doesn't have.
Kobe has 5 60 point games(1 80 point game),2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, 5 finals, more allstars apperances, more defense teams and All NBA teams, dont be an idiot just because TP got the finals MVP playing against a team who's best player averaged 5 TO's per game in the series and shot at 35%.

[branslowski]

Those guys have led the league in PER before. Kobe hasn't.

God your a dumb ****...:oldlol:

I should pop myself for taking your comments serious the other day...You are obviously a Attention Whore Troll who just tries to Neg everything about Kobe to spark reaction....Scum...:oldlol:

[Duncan21formvp]

God your a dumb ****...:oldlol:

I should pop myself for taking your comments serious the other day...You are obviously a Attention Whore Troll who just tries to Neg everything about Kobe to spark reaction....Scum...:oldlol:

Naw you got me and Alpha Wolf confused.

[branslowski]

Naw you got me and Alpha Wolf confused.

No Dude, your just a complete disgrace to Trolls everywhere...Atleast make yourself a presentable Kobe Hater....Your just a flatout Jackass...:oldlol:

Tony Parker>>Kobe??.....Your an official Jackass...:oldlol:

[Duncan21formvp]

No Dude, your just a complete disgrace to Trolls everywhere...Atleast make yourself a presentable Kobe Hater....Your just a flatout Jackass...:oldlol:

Tony Parker>>Kobe??.....Your an official Jackass...:oldlol:

He has the same amount of rings and he has a finals MVP. He has a top 50 finals Performance while Kobe doesn't and Kobe has a top 10 worst finals performance.
:confusedshrug:

[Fatal9]

I think PER double penalizes fast break teams and vice versa for half court teams. If you are a team that runs or are fast paced (ie. Lakers, Suns etc), the ball will be in the hands of many different players based on where they are on the floor (to get a quick shot). For slow half court teams, the star player (especially Lebron) is going to get at least one touch on nearly every possession because of the controlled nature of that type of an offense. This in turn raises his productivity per minute because he gets the ball in his hands at a greater rate than he would on a faster paced team. This I think is another reason why Lebron's PER matches that of Jordan's despite when you watch them on a game by game basis, Jordan looks like the more dominant and productive player.

So not only is the pace too heavily weighed (imo), but star players on teams which play exclusively a half court offense are helped additionally as they have their hand in on a greater proportion of possessions. PER-wise, all the conditions are absolutely perfect for Lebron and I think in Lebron's case, his PER is very inaccurate.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

No Dude, your just a complete disgrace to Trolls everywhere...Atleast make yourself a presentable Kobe Hater....Your just a flatout Jackass...:oldlol:

Tony Parker>>Kobe??.....Your an official Jackass...:oldlol:

dude, everyone here knows he is a pathetic troll. just ignore him like everyone else does.

[branslowski]

dude, everyone here knows he is a pathetic troll. just ignore him like everyone else does.

:oldlol: Thanks Bro...He's comedy...Him and his 3 other accounts..(he had 4, but 1 of them got Banned...."shocker"....

[raptorfan_dr07]

Very well said, my friend.

:applause:

Thanks lol. I've been doing some thinking and remembering and when I was a kid, we kinda used to have the same arguments/debates that are going on today. Only then we actually talked face to face, interacted with real people, since this was all before the internet. The internet has really screwed up face to face communication lol, but that's a different story.

Anyways, my fifth grade teacher was born and raised in Detroit. Big time Pistons fan. He had pictures of the Bad Boys and Grant Hill all over the classroom. He knew how to get under our skin by saying Grant Hill would be better than MJ or something. At lunch or recess, we'd argue with the Penny Hardaway fans who thought he would be better than Mike. It's all kinda like today when people go back and forth about Kobe vs Lebron or Kobe vs D-Wade or D-Wade vs Lebron, etc. :lol

[plowking]

How many finals MVP's does he have? Has he ever made the allstar team?

Don't be a dumb ass. Tony Parker has been an allstar yearly and has a finals MVP, something Kobe doesn't have.

How many game winning shots do they have in the playoffs?
How many more rings does Horry have over Duncan? Too many.

Don't be a dumb ass. Horry > Duncan.

[stephanieg]

I think PER double penalizes fast break teams and vice versa for half court teams.

..

So not only is the pace too heavily weighed (imo), but star players on teams which play exclusively a half court offense are helped additionally as they have their hand in on a greater proportion of possessions. PER-wise, all the conditions are absolutely perfect for Lebron and I think in Lebron's case, his PER is very inaccurate.

PER is just an arbitrary weights and measures system. I think it's only useful for comparing a player to himself to see how he's doing from year to year with regards to improving or if he's injured or if he change teams / systems. And on offense only, of course.

Imagine what Jordan would average today if they let him sit at the top of the key and direct everything and he had the ball in his hand for half of the possession CP3 style.

As for LeBron, no one needs PER to know that he is dominating the league. Any advanced metric including adjusted +/- which doesn't rely on flawed box score data has him WAAAAAAY above every once else. He can be killing like Jordan without being as good as him. He almost reminds me of a super Barkley at this point.

[Mdog1]

MJ is the GOAT for now, but it is just so sad that his reign only lasted for a few seasons. By the time LeBron is in his 12th year he will be the GOAT and will have already won 6 championships.

[DonDadda59]

MJ is the GOAT for now, but it is just so sad that his reign only lasted for a few seasons. By the time LeBron is in his 12th year he will be the GOAT and will have already won 6 championships.

Not if the zone has something to say about it.

[winwin]

Lebron right now is as good as Jordan ever was.

You cannot argue otherwise. LeBron's FT shootingn can improve, but he makes up for with his floor game.
memories :oldlol:

[nbacardDOTnet]

sidekick can be better than Jordan ? :oldlol:


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/winner_phong.gif


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/said/9cc9d9cb.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/said/8da23908.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/jordan-lebron-airball-miss.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/e98703d6.jpg

[N0Skillz]

He still needs to win 6 NBA Championships and 6 NBA Regular Season MVP, but current LeBron is a much better team player than Young Michael Jordan.

:D

[blablabla]

AL right we all know Jordan had the distinctive advantage of going to college, i do believe that helps sharper a teen players game for a year or two, and of course winning a championship there too helps

still 18 year old LeBron got way more attention then 21 year old micheal, LeBron was a undisputed lottery pick, Blazers everyone knows Bowied themselves, Cleveland his hometown has seemed his destiny so far and assuming no matter what he's offered, he's gonna resign with Cleveland

if you compare LeBron James in his 6th season and Micheal Jordan to his 6th season its incredible what LeBron has achieved at 24 years old

:lol

[pauk]

lebron hater wanking of to his lebron hating material

shame you are such a bad poster and delusional kobetard lebron hater.... got shocked when i found out how you are because i loved your website and pics and collections......

[GreatGreg]

I swear to God you idiots are parrots. Greratness is staring you right in the face and you still try to dismiss it. And for what? Just to build Jordan'js legacy?

70% of you lames didn't see Jordan's career in full and the other 30% are Bulls fans.

I don't need to argue the points cause reality is just that, real. Can't get around LeBron's numbers. And he's doing it with FAR less talent than Jordan had in his prime.
So I wonder what you would say today. Hmm...

[GreatGreg]

The amount of irony in this thread is actually rather depressing... :oldlol:

[Doctor Rivers]

shame you are such a bad poster and delusional kobetard lebron hater.... got shocked when i found out how you are because i loved your website and pics and collections......

Wade >> LeBron

[Eat Like A Bosh]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uuCqsyqQObY/S9ZnAWtStEI/AAAAAAAABEw/oYglN3d4YR8/s1600/obamam-lol-y-u-mad-tho.jpg

[Kellogs4toniee]

So much fail in this thread. Surprised Pauk can actually show his face.

[PowerGlove]

2000 and f*cking 9. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Let's bump threads from 08/07 and 06 too. I'm sure everything in those will accurately predict the future.

[Lebron23]

Win-Win. I am going to put you in a box, and send your @ss back to Antartica.