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SixersFan76
05-19-2009, 04:09 PM
Unless things change, the Sixers do not currently have a second round pick. I hope they remedy that and pick up a second rounder from someone - preferably for cash. Their first round pick is 17th. Who do you hope the Sixers get?

I think our biggest need at this point is at point guard (I for one do not want to see the 33 year old Andre Miller re-signed because of his declining defense, lack of shooting, advanced age, and poor chemistry with the current roster of Brand, Young and Iguodala as starters).

There likely will be 11 point guards taken in the first round. In all likelihood, guys like Rubio, Holiday and Jennings will be long gone. As the current projections stand, Curry, Maynor and Lawson will likely be gone as well, although it's possible that one or two might still be available at 17. Other prospective first round PGs include Flynn, Teague, Mills, Calathes, and Collison.

Personally, after Rubio and Holiday, I like Maynor and Calathes the best. Everyone on the list has warts - there are no Deron Williams, Chris Paul type prospects. However, several of these kids project to be decent NBA point guards.

I'm not a big fan of Teague, as I don't see him as an NBA point guard - he looks like a better version of Lou Williams - a third guard who can come off the bench, get his own shot, and put up points in a hurry.

I think Mills is a back up point guard who had a few nice games in the Olympics. He's fast, but he can't shoot and he's not a real point guard.

Flynn is one of those guys who has a lot of heart, but he has serious size limitations and he's not a great shooter.

I think Maynor will end up going higher than 17, although I'd probably prefer him to Calathes. Collison also seems like a kid who might end up being a decent pro - not unlike Mario Chalmers. He's not as big as Chalmers and he certainly lacks strength. However, he's faster end to end and is a far better shooter. He has a slow release, which will prevent him from getting good shots off the dribble, but he can be a good spot up shooter and solid perimeter defender who can execute the pick and roll.

I would also like to see the Sixers think outside the box a bit, buy a second round pick, and draft a kid from Europe - someone like Rudy Mbemba, Nando De Colo, or the kid I like the best - Sergio Llull from Real Madrid, and let them stay in Europe for a few seasons and see if we end up getting a steal.

Other guys I'd consider at 17 include Chase Budinger and BJ Mullens.

I'd also look at Lee Cummard if we buy a late second round pick. He's 24 and lacks athleticism,but he reminds me quite a bit of Kyle Korver, but with a better all around game. He doesn't have the quick release Korver does, but he's probably the best 3 point shooter in this draft.

Second round picks I'd consider to stash in Europe include Victor Claver and Vladimir Dasic at forward, and possibly Rodrigue Beaubois.

Finally, I don't think he gets drafted, but I'd invite Dionte Christmas to play for our Summer League team and see whether or not he has the game to be an NBA SG.

SixersFan76
05-19-2009, 10:22 PM
Interesting night with the lottery. Blake Griffin must be taking out every insurance known to man right now. Clippers now will have two starting power forwards and two starting centers. Camby has an expiring contract and will be easy to move. Zach Randolph? Not so much.

The first mock draft has the Sixers landing Maynor. Would love to see that, but still think he will end up going before 17.

GOBB
05-20-2009, 01:27 PM
Who knows who goes where. Drafts can be tricky. There is always a prospect that a team reaches for vs a prospect who slide. A PG prospect that you said will be long gone is Jrue Holliday. Most NBA draft sites have him around the Sixers range if not later. I dont think he will be gone but its possible come draft day he goes higher than most draft sites projected him.

Jay Bilas doesnt have him going high either. Said he is a top 20 talent but a work in progress much like Westbrook was/is. Think he has Jrue overall player rank at 15 or 16. Not sure. But a handful of PGs were rated over him by Bilas. A prospect that wasnt in his top 10 was B.Jennings.

Chase Budinger is slow as mollasses for a guy claimed to be so athletic. Not impressed by him at Zona. Never really stood out after his first year there. Very inconsistent.

PG and SG are two positions I'd key in on prospect wise. This draft has a bunch of guys on even levels i think. Not much seperating each of them.

Take PG for example

Jennings, Teague, Holliday, Maynor, Flynn, Lawson you can even add Curry

Same level imo...some are stronger scorers, stronger shooting, stronger playmakers. Eh

With no 2nd round pick Sixers really need to strike gold. If need be and guys are going like fast trade up and package a Willie Green or Reggie Evans with 17.

SixersFan76
05-21-2009, 11:28 AM
In fact, most websites, including RealGm, ESPN, *********, etc., have Holiday going in the top 8. You used Westbrook as an example of a similar player - he went 4th last year. If there is a PG out there other than Rubio who barring injury, is certain not to be there at 17, it's Holiday. RealGm has him going 4th. He probably won't go as high, nor should he - he's not as good a player or athlete as Westbrook, but his age and his tantalizing potential will ensure that he goes in the top 15 (baring injury) and I'm willing to bet you on that.

Budinger is certainly not slow, although he doesn't have great lateral movement. He is a great shooter, not a great player. If the Sixers are looking for a shooter, he's one of the top 3 shooters in this draft. How fast is Derrick Fisher and Sasha Vujacic for the Lakers? How fast is Wally World in Cleveland? How fast was Korver here? How fast is Kapono? He's not a point guard who sets the tempo and there is no expectation of landing a super star player at 17. If the Sixers are looking for a shooter, he'll be under consideration. He was a good player at Arizona, but he never really improved over his freshman season and expectations were perhaps too high. That doesn't mean that he won't be a productive NBA player. One thing you can't teach however, is heart, and there are questions about his desire and love of the game. That part is for the Sixers brass to decide through background checks, interviews, watching workouts, etc. Remember, questions about heart and desire is the reason Speights dropped to the Sixers last season.

You can't package Willie Green or Reggie Evans with a pick unless the intent is to get rid of the pick for nothing, in order for someone to take their contracts. They have negative net value in the NBA as role players with terrible, long term contracts over market value. We had to give up a first round pick last season just to get Minnesota to take a 24 year old, promising, recent first round pick on an expiring contract - Rodney Carney. You honestly think that you will be throwing in Willie Green or Reggie Evans and someone will not only take them off your hands, but let you move up in the draft? I doubt there is a team in the league who will take the 17th pick off our hands, along with Green or Evans in exchange for nothing, let alone allow us to move up.

As for PGs after Rubio and Holiday, you are right - none really stand out as great all around players. Jennings has the most upside and talent, but he struggled to play the point in Europe and struggled shooting. He is probably a year or two away from being able to contribute on the NBA level. Teague just doesn't look like a guy who can be a full time PG on the NBA level. He is a very good shooter off the dribble, but not very good spotting up, very turnover prone, plays little defense, and doesn't seem like a pure PG.

I don't like Curry or Flynn. Flynn looks like a spark plug back up PG to me. Tiny guys who can't shoot rarely have great success in the NBA. Curry lacks great athletic ability and just isn't a PG. He too seems like a kid who should be able to be a decent third guard off the bench - a designated shooter, but not a starting NBA PG. I think he drops on draft night.

Lawson and Collins have size issues. Lawson is the more talented player and is much stronger and more physical than Collins. He is also the more consistent shooter and the better pure PG. He is however listed at 5-11 and is likely closer to 5-9 or 5-10. Collins has a slow release and is a very weak 165 pounds. He doesn't seem outstanding, but he is a guy, who if he is capable of putting on 15 pounds of muscle without losing speed, can be a Mario Chalmers type of player in the NBA. As for Lawson, I think he goes before 17.

Collins, Maynor and Calathes stand out to me as the best fits for the Sixers. Maynor is a developing shooter and is a pure PG. He has good size, but needs to add a lot of strength. I have concerns about the competition he faced in college - sure he played great in a few big games, but it's a lot easier to save up for a big match up once every 15 games than to do it on a nightly basis like you do in the NBA. Calathes is still young, but he loves the game, has great size for the position, is a gifted passer, and a solid shooter (although maybe not yet from NBA range 3). He struggles on defense against quick guards, but again, so did Andre Miller.

Im so nba'd out
05-21-2009, 02:56 PM
Wasnt Lou Williams pretty decent with running the pick and roll with Speights...I think we should atleast give Lou a shot at being the starting point guard :rockon: .

GOBB
05-21-2009, 05:29 PM
In fact, most websites, including RealGm, ESPN, *********, etc., have Holiday going in the top 8.

If you acknowledge realgm then why not nbadraft.net?

Draftexpress.com is a very good source.

cbssports has him at 12 (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11769014)

ISH has him at 16 (http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-mock-draft.shtml)

h00pz hipe.com (y instead of i but this board censors that site) has him at 18.

Yahoo has him going 18 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-mockdraft052009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Foxsports doesnt have him in thier top 14 (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9588016/Mock-NBA-draft:-The-top-14-picks)


I'm not seeing where he is projected top 8 here.


You used Westbrook as an example of a similar player - he went 4th last year.

R.Westbrook didnt come out in a PG heavy draft. This draft is PG heavy.



If there is a PG out there other than Rubio who barring injury, is certain not to be there at 17, it's Holiday.

Holliday could go higher than projected. Always possible in a draft. But i dont see where you are getting this projection of him being top 8. And this idea he will not be there at 17.


RealGm has him going 4th.

meh at them.


He probably won't go as high, nor should he - he's not as good a player or athlete as Westbrook, but his age and his tantalizing potential will ensure that he goes in the top 15 (baring injury) and I'm willing to bet you on that.

Betting draft spots after the top 3 prospects is risky business. Every draft a guy projected high falls and a guy projected low goes high. Draft full of surprises.

My argument is projection prior to draft. Where are you getting this idea he is going top 8 on your sources? The kid hasnt even hired an agent.

Ben Howland
What kind of feedback did you get from the general managers?
‘’That he was definitely a first round pick. It was wide – some would say 10 to 15, others would say 15 to 25. But a lot of that, you’re seeing who else is going in the draft, and so that changes on a regular basis. Jrue and his family elected to sign a sheet where they will get feedback from the NBA – they have a committee run by Stu Jackson that constantly is changing week to week based on who’s in. But the main thing is Jrue is going to work out for a number of teams and=2 0will get feedback to his family as to what they think. It’s a win-win. He will always have the option of coming back here to open arms, but if he elects

Jrue Holliday
Was there a deciding factor?
‘’No, and again, it’s not like I’m going to the NBA. I haven’t signed with an agent. It’s just testing the waters, to see what it’s going to be like at these camps, at these workouts, if I can handle the drills, which I’m positive that I can, and I feel really comfortable going in.


Budinger is certainly not slow, although he doesn't have great lateral movement.

Hes about as fast as Kyle Korver. Yet Chase was supposed to be this super athlete. He's not slow as in the literal sense. Just not impressed with his speed and quickness given that its talked up a bit.


He's not a point guard who sets the tempo and there is no expectation of landing a super star player at 17. If the Sixers are looking for a shooter, he'll be under consideration. He was a good player at Arizona, but he never really improved over his freshman season and expectations were perhaps too high. That doesn't mean that he won't be a productive NBA player. One thing you can't teach however, is heart, and there are questions about his desire and love of the game. That part is for the Sixers brass to decide through background checks, interviews, watching workouts, etc. Remember, questions about heart and desire is the reason Speights dropped to the Sixers last season.

He'll get a look but i got a list of prospects rated over him. Hopefully they are gone by time Chase is available.


You can't package Willie Green or Reggie Evans with a pick unless the intent is to get rid of the pick for nothing, in order for someone to take their contracts. They have negative net value in the NBA as role players with terrible, long term contracts over market value.

The thing about this draft is picking at 17 isnt much different than 7,8,9. Might not need to move up to strike gold.

R.Evans has 2yrs worth $10mil
W.Green has 2yrs worth $8mil

Rough estimates. Terrible long contracts? Ok.


We had to give up a first round pick last season just to get Minnesota to take a 24 year old, promising, recent first round pick on an expiring contract - Rodney Carney.

Philadelphia 76ers President and General Manager Ed Stefanski announced today that the team has traded Calvin Booth, Rodney Carney, cash considerations and the rights to a conditional first-round pick received from Utah (acquired from the Jazz last December) to the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for a protected second-round pick in 2010.

Deal was done so we could land Elton Brand. :confusedshrug:


You honestly think that you will be throwing in Willie Green or Reggie Evans and someone will not only take them off your hands, but let you move up in the draft? I doubt there is a team in the league who will take the 17th pick off our hands, along with Green or Evans in exchange for nothing, let alone allow us to move up.

If a team ahead of us has thier prospect taken before they pick? They could not be impressed with whats left. Meaning they could get the guy they want at 17 instead of taking him at 14? But you get back a decent bench player? Might be appealing.

This draft is so on par after the top 3 prospects. You're not passing up the next Durant to move down. You are passing up a player you might still be able to land moving down while adding something.

Not saying it will happen. Not out of the realm of possibilities is all. But like i said Sixers may not even need to move up at 17 given the talent in this draft.



Collins, Maynor and Calathes stand out to me as the best fits for the Sixers. Maynor is a developing shooter and is a pure PG. He has good size, but needs to add a lot of strength. I have concerns about the competition he faced in college - sure he played great in a few big games, but it's a lot easier to save up for a big match up once every 15 games than to do it on a nightly basis like you do in the NBA. Calathes is still young, but he loves the game, has great size for the position, is a gifted passer, and a solid shooter (although maybe not yet from NBA range 3). He struggles on defense against quick guards, but again, so did Andre Miller.

I'm sold on Eric Maynor. I was on the Flynn/Lawson wagon but now I'm on Maynors. Perfect fit and nice value at 17.

SixersFan76
05-22-2009, 10:58 PM
Green and Evans have negative value in the NBA. That's a stone cold fact. No one is absorbing their terrible contracts. They are guys who should be making the minimum on one year deals.

ESPN is the preeminent sports website. Hollinger and Chad Ford have the most respected draft threads as they have actual access to personnel and get invited to attend workouts. No one else has that access so their mock drafts are worthless - just like ours would be. Holiday will go in the lottery.

I like Calathes the best I think and Maynor the second best out of the guys expected to be there and it's close between the two. Would have to read more about the workouts.

GOBB
05-23-2009, 12:19 PM
espn is bogus no better than draftexpress. Whether Holliday goes lottery or not is up for debate. He could. But I'm not seeing where he is protected top 8. I think you overreacted to what realgm had or something.

And explain how Willie Green and Reggie Evans contracts are terrible.

Posterize246
05-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Chad Ford isn't respected by anybody. He goes by what he hears more than what he sees. Even Bill Simmons thinks he's a joke. Remember when Darko was being hyped up by every fan out there? It was because they were reading Chad Ford's blogs. He also overrated Bargnani and Skitishvili (I'm not even going to bother looking up the spelling) as if they were the next big things. He has a love affair with foreign talent.

And even now he's only a part-timer at ESPN. It's not his full-time work. He's only a contributor these days.

Grinder
05-23-2009, 04:37 PM
Jonathon Givony from Draftexpress is the one whose opinion I respect the most with regards to scouting and NBA draft news.

As for the draft, it'll all depend on whether or not we let Andre Miller walk. If he does, we'll have plenty of options. I don't think we'll be able to land Jennings, Curry, Flynn, or Holiday so our options are:
Jeff Teague
Eric Maynor
Ty Lawson
Nick Calathes
Patrick Mills
Darren Collison

I like Teague the best but I'm not convinced he's a pure point guard, I wouldn't mind getting Lawson or Patty Mills either.

If we keep Miller, I think we look for a backup shooting guard/wing player. I like Chase Budinger and Terrence Williams best out this crop.

Styles p
05-23-2009, 04:48 PM
i want patrick mills.

el gringos
05-24-2009, 07:59 PM
Really good thread, the pg situation is for sure the interesting part of this draft- there are a lot of good posts in this thread and some good anylisis

I really believe holiday is a top 3-8 pick and don't see a way he gets past both gs and ny at 7 and 8-

I also think teague is much better than he is getting credit for- either #4 or 5 pg in this draft imo

as far as the little guys I like mills better than lawson and maybe flynn and thought mills was a good shooter

donsanchez306
05-24-2009, 09:16 PM
we could go on forever about this draft until it happens. lets be grateful it is point guard loaded. the sixers are usually solid in picking out players in the mid lottery as we have had a ton of experince of being mediocre enough to draft there time and time again it's the top ten territory we struggle with.

YES. we need a second rounder.
YES. we need a point guard.
lets just put some ol' faith into an alright drafting front office.

if i was stefanski i'd pay isiah thomas a consulting fee and ask him his honest opinion on draft day just to make sure we pick the best value available because 14 to 17 is no biggie in talent difference.

i have read somewhere that some gm said this was one of the worst drafts ever. so im not going to put to much weight or thought into this draft if we bomb the living shyt out of this pick. i'd feel better if we had a 2nd rounder or two. :ohwell:

Posterize246
05-24-2009, 09:34 PM
not sure if it was mentioned but cross Calathes off our board, he's gonna play in Greece

SixersFan76
05-24-2009, 11:49 PM
ESPN's mock drafts are regularly better than anyone else's out there. Holiday is a lock to go in the lottery baring injury.

Green and Evans have terrible contracts. They have negative value. You couldn't get another team to take those two if you gave them a first round pick. They are more than one year and more than the minimum for guys who should be making the league minimum on a one year contract. Not a single team in the NBA would take them for nothing if you offered them. That's a stone cold fact - just like Holiday going in the lottery.

As for Chad Ford and Hollinger, we're not talking about their GM acumen - we're talking about their contacts and access to teams and players - their reporting is far better than anything else you'll find out there. Ford by the way is part time for a reason - he gets paid a whole lot of money to work with players on their games - it's not because he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Bargniani is going to be an all-star by the way and Darko Milicic went number 2 overall not because a writer on ESPN hyped him up, but because NBA GM's, including Joe Dumars - one of the best in the business, believed he would be a star. Ford was right to report Milicic will go top 3 when many others didn't know who the guy was.

artificial
05-25-2009, 02:42 AM
For draft sources, anyone can choose whatever source they prefer, so let's not get into that. I don't put too much weight in ESPN, much less in Chad Ford, but that's just me.

I'm not too high in Jrue so if by any chance he falls to #17 I'd rather someone else. However, I was also very skeptical of Rajon Rondo in that draft (he was being considered for that pick, which ultimately became Carney) and look how he turned out.

One thing we can agree in Jrue is that there's no consensus on him, as he is projected anywhere from #10 (Chad Ford) to #24 (draft.net) And that's understandable, since he is the typical high-risk high-reward prospect.


Speaking of mock drafts, many of them changed when the lottery came out, as expected. Just for fun, here are how some sites have projected Philly's pick: (further adjustments in the respective sites are likely)

draftexpress - Ty Lawson
Wishful thinking he'd fall this low, but I'd love to see this happen. Fits the team well IMO and seems to be solid.

ISH - BJ Mullens
Uh... no. I'm disappointed by this site. Seriously.

hoops Hy pe- Eric Maynor
I like his characteristics on paper, as he would fit very well if he pans out. Wouldn't be bothered at all if he is picked, and is very likely to be available.

ESPN (Chad Ford) - Eric Maynor
He read it here. Bastard.... :D

draft.net - Ty Lawson
Oh yeah :banana:

donsanchez306
05-25-2009, 10:37 AM
:lol here's a lil' spice of reality. "with the 17th pick in the 2009 draft the philadelphia 76's pick : Tyler Hansbrough" :roll:

GOBB
05-25-2009, 01:31 PM
Green and Evans have terrible contracts. They have negative value. You couldn't get another team to take those two if you gave them a first round pick. They are more than one year and more than the minimum for guys who should be making the league minimum on a one year contract. Not a single team in the NBA would take them for nothing if you offered them. That's a stone cold fact - just like Holiday going in the lottery.

They dont have terrible contracts. Stop making up stuff.

You're predicting Holliday goes lottery. Thats fine. But dont tell me he is a projected top 8 pick with nothing to back it up outside of 2 sites. Espn (then you go off at how credible, reliable they are) and realgm.com. You listed no other sources for a reason. But didnt fail to type "etc etc etc" as if it was a consensus, a known Holliday is rated top 8. Stop.

You're not making good arguments.

GOBB
05-25-2009, 01:32 PM
One thing we can agree in Jrue is that there's no consensus on him, as he is projected anywhere from #10 (Chad Ford) to #24 (draft.net) And that's understandable, since he is the typical high-risk high-reward prospect.

Exactly. Someone with sense.

artificial
05-25-2009, 07:42 PM
:lol here's a lil' spice of reality. "with the 17th pick in the 2009 draft the philadelphia 76's pick : Tyler Hansbrough" :roll:

Well, he would make sense since we're getting rid of Dalembert. He would form a great frontcourt with Brand and MoSpeezy.




...

...Yes, of course I'm kidding. That scared me, but I wanted to pretend it didn't :P

SixersFan76
05-25-2009, 10:03 PM
No, you're right, Reggie Evans, with 2 years at $11 million and Willie Green with 2 years and $7 million both have value. Someone will trade for them. Just don't hold your breath on it. These two, along with Dalembert, have horrible contracts that no one wants. If we had to give up a first round pick just to get Minnesota to take Carney, a younger and more promising player than either Green or Evans, who had an expiring contract paying him $1.3 million, there will surely be people lining up to trade for Evans, who is only overpaid by $9 million, or Green, who is overpaid by about $6. Once their contracts expire, they will either play for the league minimum or will be out of the league all together.

As for Holiday, I cited 2 NBA analysts on ESPN, the pre-eminent sports website in the world, and RealGM - that's 3 sources that are more credible than anything else you throw out there. Like Russell Westbrook did last year, guys like Holiday, end up going in the lottery unless there is injury or personal issues (not hard worker, health, drugs, bad kid, etc.). Holiday could go as high as 4 and as low as 14, but he isn't very likely to be around at 17. Plus, he wouldn't necessarily be the best fit in Philly as he's likely 2 years away from being ready to play any significant minutes in the NBA.

If he's there at 17, I'm guessing Sixers take him. I just wouldn't bet on him being around that long.

And Chase Budinger is anything but slow by the way. He doesn't have great lateral movement - particularly on defense, but he's a solid and legit NBA athlete - far above guys like Korver and Kapono, who are valuable NBA shooters. He's no less athletic than a guy like Stephen Curry, and probably more so.

By the way, I meant Thorpe makes money in coaching, not Ford - he already made his money when his site was bought out by ESPN with 300,000 subscribers - he teaches at UH. Thorpe also has Holiday going in the lottery, but I didn't list him because he helps to coach and train at IMG, where Holiday is getting ready for the draft, so that's that on that.

Johnny Flynn's stock seems to be rising though.

SixersFan76
05-26-2009, 06:19 PM
You know what, we could do a lot worse than Jeff Teague. Ideally, he would be a better pure PG instead of a scoring 6-2 combo guard, but he has the skills to be a very good offensive PG, whereas Maynor looks like a guy who got to handle the rock a lot for a bad team and doesn't have any oustanding skills that stand out - actually kind of reminds me of Acie Law a little bit. As thing stand now, we have the 17th pick - give me an Iguodala, Speights, Smith, Dalembert type pick - high risk, high reward, as opposed to a Carney type pick. Give me a young guy with clear holes in his game, but freakish upside over a more mature player that doesn't stand out in any way at all.

GOBB
05-26-2009, 09:32 PM
If he's there at 17, I'm guessing Sixers take him. I just wouldn't bet on him being around that long.

I dont want him anyway. Really think Holliday is overrated. What has he done?


And Chase Budinger is anything but slow by the way. He doesn't have great lateral movement - particularly on defense, but he's a solid and legit NBA athlete - far above guys like Korver and Kapono, who are valuable NBA shooters. He's no less athletic than a guy like Stephen Curry, and probably more so.

Yea when i saw slow i have an idea how fast he should be/i expected him too be. Thats all. He can definately run in the transition. Guy just really disappointed me last season is all. Was expecting him to really make his name a household.


By the way, I meant Thorpe makes money in coaching, not Ford - he already made his money when his site was bought out by ESPN with 300,000 subscribers - he teaches at UH. Thorpe also has Holiday going in the lottery, but I didn't list him because he helps to coach and train at IMG, where Holiday is getting ready for the draft, so that's that on that.

Cant remember what article i read but scouts said Holliday is moving up the draft board.


Johnny Flynn's stock seems to be rising though.

Yeah thats who i wanted watching coll bball last season. Really liked him. Now I'm just sold on Eric Maynor. I just like his ability to distribute the ball, take care of it and play some real good defense. All I want my PG to do. He can work on other skills. Hopefully he can be our Rondo so to speak.

Stinks Sixers only have 1 draft pick.

artificial
05-27-2009, 02:45 AM
You know what, we could do a lot worse than Jeff Teague. Ideally, he would be a better pure PG instead of a scoring 6-2 combo guard, but he has the skills to be a very good offensive PG, whereas Maynor looks like a guy who got to handle the rock a lot for a bad team and doesn't have any oustanding skills that stand out - actually kind of reminds me of Acie Law a little bit. As thing stand now, we have the 17th pick - give me an Iguodala, Speights, Smith, Dalembert type pick - high risk, high reward, as opposed to a Carney type pick. Give me a young guy with clear holes in his game, but freakish upside over a more mature player that doesn't stand out in any way at all.

Iguodala was not a high risk high reward player going into that draft. While few people envisioned him becoming this good, he was projected a player with rather limited upside, but that had strong elements that would help him become a solid player such as good athleticism, solid defense and good all around game.

Speights, Young were indeed high risk high reward players, as both had the characteristic "potential" label, and were seen as "needing to develop before contributing". Fortunately, both are developing well.


The thing is, we get it that you really like Jrue. He may turn into a great player and prove you right. Nobody is denying that. But you don't have to go overboard and say that every player with his characteristics the Sixers have picked are great.

If for some reason Philly picks Jrue (or Teague) I will be cheering for him. I'm just skeptical of him, and I like other prospects better.

SixersFan76
05-27-2009, 04:00 PM
Flynn looks like he's shooting up the draft boards. He very well might end up being the best PG in the draft. As for Holiday think about this - what did Westbrook do? He was a freshman PG who was forced to play out of position and was 18 years old. What he does have is great ability and size and tantalizing potential. If he's there at 17, you almost have to take him, but I'm not sure why he would last that long. By the way, Holiday will already be a better defender than Maynor on the NBA level, in spite of age difference. I liked Maynor, but Acie Law keeps coming to mind. A guy who played against inferior competition on a team where he got to dominate the ball a lot and pad his stats. His turnover ratio was on the high side and he's a 6-2 guy who is light, not particularly fast, not very athletic, not very strong, not a great pure shooter, and doesn't have particularly creative or great passing ability. He will be an NBA player, but he might be nothing more than a decent back up and if he pans out, his ceiling is still no better than a middle of the road starter. Sixers can't win with that considering the current make up of the team. I'd rather take a risk on a high ceiling guy - presuming Rubio, Jennings, Flynn, Holiday aren't available, I think I'd take a flyer on Teague if he's there, instead of taking a guy like Maynor. Maybe it's prejudice versus where he played or preference for one great skill over a lot of average ones, but I think I'd take Lawson and Collins over him as well.

Iguodala's stock was all over the place. He was coming out as a sophmore who still had a raw game. Some projected him in the top 5, others as low as 15. That was a result of both, incredible athleticism, and because of how raw he was. That is what I mean by high risk, high reward. Obviously, in the lottery, we're talking about different levels of risk versus second half of the first round.

Actually, I'm not sold on Holiday one bit. I think the comparisons to Westbrook are overblown because while Holiday is a solid athlete, he doesn't have Westbrook's amazing speed or athleticism. I just believe he will be gone by the time the Sixer pick. In fact, I never said Sixers have to take a player with his characteristics - I said he doesn't seem like a good fit. The guy I would rather take a gamble on over Maynor is Teague.

At the end, we don't know who is or isn't going to be there. Trades, injuries, guys pulling out, people amazing or disappointing during workouts - a lot of time to decide. My only points were that I would take a gamble on a very high reward player like Teague over a more NBA ready player like Maynor, who seems to have a lower ceiling, and that based on how these things go, I've read in several places I consider reliable, and judging by prior history, that Holiday will go in the lottery.

Plus, as I read more about all these guys and watch some clips, etc., I'll probably change my mind about a hundred times between today and the draft.

artificial
05-27-2009, 05:11 PM
Assuming they (Sixers) remain at No. 17, here are three possibilities:

Jonny Flynn, Syracuse: Flynn seems destined to go at the 10th or 11th spot, but a few unexpected choices beforehand could make him available at 17.

Ty Lawson, North Carolina: A month ago, this speedy guard seemed sure to be drafted higher. In some assessments, he is the sixth-ranked point guard in the draft.

Jrue Holiday, UCLA: Holiday, a freshman, has yet to hire an agent, which means he can return to school. If he stays in the draft, the 18-year-old could be a high-risk, high-reward selection for the Sixers.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20090527_Rambis_reportedly_out_of_76ers__race.html

Probably useless info as it's just some writer's speculations. He says Flynn is unlikely to be available, so why list him? If he's around by 17 for some mistake, take him.

And again, I don't think Jrue would fit -independently from if he pans out or not-. Surprisingly, it seems we agree on that fan76.

Should've listed Teague instead of Flynn.

As of now, the prospects Stefanski should be evaluating seriously, according to this thread, would be

-Lawson
-Maynor
-Teague
-Jrue
-Flynn?

Posterize246
05-27-2009, 05:44 PM
Flynn could be around, the Bulls worked him out today or yesterday and they've got the 16th pick. Why they did that with Derrick Rose there idk, but they did.

SixersFan76
05-27-2009, 06:35 PM
Who knows why teams do some of the things they do. I am skeptical that Flynn drops below 14.

Agreed on the guys they should be looking at, although, to be honest, they should look at absolutely everyone other than Rubio - he's the only guy they realistically won't be able to trade up to get and who has no chance of dropping out of the top 5. They should look at Collins from UCLA - he might be a Mario Chalmers type in the NBA - UCLA guys usually pan out pretty well (Ed and Charles O'Bannon notwithstanding). They should also look at any number of Europeans who likely go in the second round.

Another guy I hope they look at is Victor Claver. He might go in the first, although his agent is trying to steer him into the second, so when he does come over in 2 years, he isn't restricted by the rookie scale. He's a 6-11 combo forward who has a lot of potential. There are several Spanish and French point guards out there who in a few years could turn into the next Jose Calderon and could be well worth the gamble of buying a second round pick and taking as an asset for the future.

SixersFan76
05-28-2009, 11:32 AM
By the way, reports of Calathes going to Greece have yet to be officially confirmed. Maybe he stays in the draft. If so, he remains a legitimate possibility. If he does sign in Greece, but is still in the draft (fuzzy on the rules here), he'd be a great gamble in the second round.

SixersFan76
05-28-2009, 12:49 PM
ESPN:

Posterize246
05-29-2009, 02:27 PM
Draft Measurements (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/)

SixersFan76
05-29-2009, 04:25 PM
ESPN:

"Four players really seemed to catch the attention of the GMs I spoke with after the event, with UCLA's Jrue Holiday garnering the most attention. He was the biggest point guard of the top group and seemed to tower over several of the smaller guys on the floor.
During one 3-on-2 full-court drill, Holiday looked like a power forward running on the wing. And while his size was impressive, so was his game. He was hitting his jump shot, finishing with both hands and showing versatility and an excellent handle.
"I was skeptical when I read the report out of IMG about Holiday," one NBA executive said. "Now I get it. That's the kid we fell in love with in high school. He was really impressive."

Posterize246
05-30-2009, 11:32 AM
Jonny Flynn, Ty Lawson, Stephen Curry sit down with the Sixers for interviews...


Ty Lawson, who led North Carolina to the NCAA national championship last spring, and Syracuse's Jonny Flynn both sat down with the Sixers' brass. Stephen Curry of Davidson said yesterday that he expected to do so.

All three are likely to be picked in the first round.

"I met with them, and I'll probably be working out for them later on in June," Lawson said. "They have a lot of interest in me, so I'll be happy to go there."

The Sixers "fit me real well," he said. "They have athletic wings on the side, and going there could be the best situation for me."

The interview "went pretty well," said Flynn, who declared for the draft after his sophomore season. "They are an up-and-coming team . . . a team that in the playoffs this year really scared the Orlando Magic. That's a good situation and a good place to go."


"I'm a point guard who can move over to the 2 if I need to spread the defense," Curry said, referring to the shooting-guard spot. "I can't really say how I'd fit in there."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090530_Sixers_meet_with_Lawson__Flynn.html

artificial
05-30-2009, 11:56 AM
While I'm also not sure how Curry would fit as a ballhandler (though I think he can handle it), his range would be welcomed with arms wide open. Then again, he won't be around at #17 and not sure he would be worth trading up.

His interview is probably not very relevant.

Posterize246
06-02-2009, 12:03 PM
Friday the Sixers are bringing in for workouts...

1. Ty Lawson
2. Toney Douglas
3. Jodie Meeks
4. Stefon Jackson
5. Terrence Williams

SixersFan76
06-03-2009, 12:50 PM
GOBB, you seeing a lot of sources these days that don't have Holiday in the lottery? ESPN and RealGM now have him as high as 4. Draftexpress has him top 10.

SixersFan76
06-04-2009, 06:28 PM
Oh, and Chase Budinger really tested out horribly in the athletic portion of the combine? I guess it was all hype - that 38.5 inch vertical, third best in the draft - hype. Athleticism is not the problem - heart is.

GOBB
06-05-2009, 02:07 PM
GOBB, you seeing a lot of sources these days that don't have Holiday in the lottery? ESPN and RealGM now have him as high as 4. Draftexpress has him top 10.

nbadraft.net has him at 24. insidehoops.com at 16.

GOBB
06-05-2009, 02:18 PM
Oh, and Chase Budinger really tested out horribly in the athletic portion of the combine? I guess it was all hype - that 38.5 inch vertical, third best in the draft - hype. Athleticism is not the problem - heart is.

Arguing with yourself? :confusedshrug:

SixersFan76
06-05-2009, 03:49 PM
Yeah, I guess we'll see whether it's jerk off fans who post personal opinions based on nothing on the two websites you mentioned or professional writers and scouts who write and post for ESPN, RealGM and Draftnetexpress who end up right.

Would you like to take a wager that Holiday goes in the lottery? No, I'm guessing you wouldn't since your post is just more *********gery. Anyone who is anyone is predicting Holiday goes in the lottery and he will go in the lottery, but if you like to make a wager that he won't sack up. Otherwise, what you're doing is again, typical Internet *********gery - you have nothing to add so you pick baseless arguments with other posters or make posts where you state the obvious.

GOBB
06-05-2009, 04:28 PM
Yeah, I guess we'll see whether it's jerk off fans who post personal opinions based on nothing on the two websites you mentioned or professional writers and scouts who write and post for ESPN, RealGM and Draftnetexpress who end up right.

You never once cited draftexpress.com until I did. And you only referred to it because they finally moved Jru Holliday UP in thier RECENT mock draft. And I love how you hold realgm in high regard then totally dismiss insidehoops and even nbadraft.net. Why? Oh because it makes your initial claim look silly? What are you 12? I even posted more sources (unlike you which you failed to provide) where Jru Holliday was projected which was lower than what you claimed. Any comment? Of course not. I guess all the LINKS i provided in my first argument fell on blind eyes huh? Huh?

Lets recap for you big mouth...


In fact, most websites, including RealGm, ESPN, *********, etc., have Holiday going in the top 8.

Most websites tho right and you cite 2. :oldlol:

I provide twice as many and mum is the word. But alas since draftexpress recently updated you wanna add them as one of your "sources". Again are you 12?

Mind your manners kid.



Would you like to take a wager that Holiday goes in the lottery?

I've already stated he very well could go in the lottery. I guess you missed that post because you were too butt hurt the lack of SITES showing Holliday going TOP 8.

Argument was never "Could Holliday go lottery", it was "Where is Holliday projected" and you claim its a fact he projected top 8. I proven that wrong. Swallow your pride.



No, I'm guessing you wouldn't since your post is just more *********gery.

My last post just shows how you hold realgm and espn like the bible over two over sites that are similar in nature. Its human beings giving opinions on where these prospect project. Insidehoops is a very popular basketball site. Dont confuse messageboard with site either. Its often used as a reliable source. Yet the mock draft because it doesnt suit your argument is no good. :oldlol:

And nbadraft.net is worthless based on what? NBA comparisons being out of wack? I agree thier NBA comparisons are bad. But how are they not credible again? I'd like to hear. I can provide more sources for you since you only given me 2, errr 3 (since you copy/pasted one i gave to you). But you could be dismissing them with BS if they dont support your argument or saying hey hey lets go with that if they do support your argument. Are you 12?



Anyone who is anyone is predicting Holiday goes in the lottery and he will go in the lottery

Show me anyone who is anyone saying he is going top 8.

"realgm has him going 4"

And somehow thats credible to you based on?

"Russell Westbrook went 4 last year"

Right in a weak PG class...I'm sure that had zero to do with it. :rolleyes:

SixersFan76
06-06-2009, 01:08 AM
Let me clue you in to something, posting Internet sources or sites where fans make predictions are about as valuable as the rest of your posts.

Sack up moron and admit that Holiday will go in the lottery and you're a moron and were wrong because you rely on Internet sites written by fans and not on predictions of expert opinions who do this for a living.

Will Holiday go before 17 or not? Answer the question - oh, wait, you know he will and being a moron, you are trying to find irrelevant sources. Any moron can find any number of Internet cites claiming any kind of crazy **** and that's exactly what you're doing because you don't have anything valuable to add and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Only a moron would equate legitimate reporting with posts of fans on Internet cites and clearly you're a moron - no use arguing with a moron.

Just sit there and read contrarian cites and get into idiotic arguments while waiting upon a star. Legitimate sources all claim Holiday will go in the lottery. He'll go in the lottery and you can cite any number of Internet posts by fans where blue is green and blue is yellow. It will keep you warm and fuzzy at night.

GOBB
06-06-2009, 01:58 PM
Sack up moron and admit that Holiday will go in the lottery

I never denied he wouldnt go lottery. I said there is a chance he does end up in the lottery. And about a week or so later I posted about a couple GMs said Holliday stock was rising into the lottery. You're a selective reader. Guess being butt hurt is the cause.

Just admit you were wrong about all these sources (only listed 2) having Holliday projected top 8. espn and realgm. Thats all you have.

GOBB
06-06-2009, 02:13 PM
In fact, most websites, including RealGm, ESPN, *********, etc., have Holiday going in the top 8.


If you acknowledge realgm then why not nbadraft.net?

Draftexpress.com is a very good source.

cbssports has him at 12

ISH has him at 16

h00pz hipe.com (y instead of i but this board censors that site) has him at 18.

Yahoo has him going 18

Foxsports doesnt have him in thier top 14


I'm not seeing where he is projected top 8 here.


My argument is projection prior to draft. Where are you getting this idea he is going top 8 on your sources? The kid hasnt even hired an agent.


Whether Holliday goes lottery or not is up for debate. He could. But I'm not seeing where he is protected top 8. I think you overreacted to what realgm had or something.


Cant remember what article i read but scouts said Holliday is moving up the draft board.

Argument was never is Holliday going lottery. Its where is he being projected. You claimed top 8 and had soureces to back it up. I fail to see how a kid is projecred top 8 by your draft bibles realgm/espn and he hasnt hired an agent. If you're assured if being top 8 you hire an agent.


Ben Howland
What kind of feedback did you get from the general managers?
‘’That he was definitely a first round pick. It was wide – some would say 10 to 15, others would say 15 to 25. But a lot of that, you’re seeing who else is going in the draft, and so that changes on a regular basis. Jrue and his family elected to sign a sheet where they will get feedback from the NBA – they have a committee run by Stu Jackson that constantly is changing week to week based on who’s in. But the main thing is Jrue is going to work out for a number of teams and=2 0will get feedback to his family as to what they think. It’s a win-win. He will always have the option of coming back here to open arms, but if he elects

Jrue Holliday
Was there a deciding factor?
‘’No, and again, it’s not like I’m going to the NBA. I haven’t signed with an agent. It’s just testing the waters, to see what it’s going to be like at these camps, at these workouts, if I can handle the drills, which I’m positive that I can, and I feel really comfortable going in.

I left it alone....you being butt hurt continued.

donsanchez306
06-06-2009, 09:32 PM
GOBB did u ever think you would fight with a sixerfan this hard? you never used to post in here and now you are getting trolled in here. look at the year i joined and how many posts i have i lurk and rarely post. for awhile it was just a few of us on this board i'm happy to see movement over this season and off season but i hate to see two sixer fans fight over stupidity. who cares where jrue goes really........don't lose sleep over it he wont be wade.
hell i remember when we didnt have a mod. i think i voted artificial or for myself ....i forget either way the right man won the mod job.


as for the 17th pick i think we get lawson call it a hunch.

AI09
06-07-2009, 02:31 PM
Philly is lucky this draft is full of quality guards because its our top needs this offseason. We can go with alot of differnt options in the draft but i think we need to pick up a Pointgaurd or a shooter, maybe trade for another pick and pick up both? its possible.

Jrue Holiday would be nice for Philly down the road i would trade up and try to get him because he wont be there at number 17.

Flynn is another prospect i would love to play for philly but raised his stock and can go mid lottery

Tyreke Evans would be a nice pick up for philly proved he can play the 1 hes a good passer but more suited for the 2guard spot loves to play up and down and thats what phillys all about. His stocked rised too so maybe we can trade up for him

Jeff Teague A good scorer he plays hard the entire game puts pressure on the defense everytime he has the ball. Loves the transition game so should be a great fit for philly.He might be around at 17

Eric Maynor is clutch and preforms at a high level every night should be there at 17

Other options Ty Lawson, Chase Budinger Gerald Henderson and for big man i could see Blair in a Philly uniform if he drops

donsanchez306
06-07-2009, 03:25 PM
yawn.....still fight club? let it go......:eek:

artificial
06-08-2009, 12:19 AM
Take the day off and look at this mess :(

Hope no one gets offended at the stuff I deleted, but I sincerely don't think it was worth keeping.

Posterize246
06-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Dionte Christmas, Wayne Ellington, Darren Collison, Marcus Thornton, and Jack McClinton in for workouts today.

With Christmas, Ellington, McClinton, and Meeks all 2nd round picks that are shooters does that indicate that we are looking to pick up a 2nd round pick somewhere?

GOBB
06-10-2009, 02:05 PM
Hope no one gets offended at the stuff I deleted, but I sincerely don't think it was worth keeping.

Not at all. :cheers:


Dionte Christmas, Wayne Ellington, Darren Collison, Marcus Thornton, and Jack McClinton in for workouts today.

With Christmas, Ellington, McClinton, and Meeks all 2nd round picks that are shooters does that indicate that we are looking to pick up a 2nd round pick somewhere?

Willie Green for a 2nd rounder (Christmas, Ellington, Thornton can shoot). Not sure who McClinton is. Collison could have gone higher if he left earlier. But you could be on to something since Sixers have no second round pick.

Posterize246
06-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Not at all. :cheers:



Willie Green for a 2nd rounder (Christmas, Ellington, Thornton can shoot). Not sure who McClinton is. Collison could have gone higher if he left earlier. But you could be on to something since Sixers have no second round pick.
Jack McClinton from Miami. He can shoot but he's tiny. 6'1" or 6'2". Eddie House similarities.

SixersFan76
06-10-2009, 03:00 PM
No one will eat $7 million and give up cap space and a pick to add Willie Green. We could offer a team our first round pick just to take Green along, and I doubt there will be a single team in the NBA who would agree to do so. In this economic climate, the only way we trade Green is if we get either a longer, bigger contract, or just a bigger contract. The other option is if he is moved as part of a bigger deal for salary cap purposes.

We at $2.8 million to swap Evans for Kapono. If there is a team out there who has an overpaid, marginal role player with a contract bigger than Green's, that's the team that would be interested in him.

That being said, Evans was redundant here with Brand and Smith coming back and with the expected improvement of Speights. Just like we found Theo last season, and Phoenix picked up Admundson from us and paid him the minimum, we can pick up another big to replace Evans.

Green however is not redundant. Right now, he is the only pure SG on the roster and the only other player other than Iguodala who can defend the position at even an average level. He's not very good true, but in his case, it will make little sense to take on an even worse contract. In a traditional line-up, we'll start Iggy at the 2 and Thad at the 3. When we go small, we are still likely to go with Iggy, Kapono and Young. Green will revert to a role that best suits him - a back up SG who plays 15 minutes a game.

A second round pick can typically be purchased. No one will eat a bad contract from us in the process. Instead, we can offer someone some cold hard cash if there is a player we like.

Many teams today view a high second rounder as more valuable than a low first rounder because it doesn't come with the burdern of a guaranteed contract and in most drafts, the difference between the talent isn't that great - this draft in particular. One of those picks might be harder to acquire.

However, a pick in the 40's is something that should be doable - particularly for cash. In years past a pick in the 50's could be had as low as $50,000, but teams have bought second rounders for $500,000 too.

Portland is looking to move the 24th pick. If they are unable to do so and there isn't an international prospect they like enough to draft and stash overseas, they'd sell the 33rd pick - perhaps for cash and a future second rounder or for two future second rounders. They also have the 38th and the 55th, although I wouldn't be very interested in the 55th. One of those picks will be up for grabs.

Right now, there is talk of McClinton going in the first, but he could drop down. He's a combo guard and unless we move Williams and/or Green, I'm not sure I'd be interested in terms of fit. He's a much better defender than House and has a nice offensive game, although he's not quite the pure shooter House is.

If I'm the Sixers, I focus on drafting a European prospect whom the can stash overseas or a guy like Nick Calathes, who likely would have gone in the first round and they likely would have considered at 17, but who'll play in Greece next season. It's a low risk, high reward pick. Some apparently still think he might go in the first round anyway.

Victor Claver is a kid with a lot of talent who already gets some burn in the ABC, but he too might go in the first. Same with Omri Casspi from Israel.

The two kids who improved their stock, but likely still go in the second round are Nando De Colo - a guy I would love for the Sixers to pick up in the second round, and Rodrigue Beaubois.

Patrick Beverley can play and he'll go in the second round. Luke Harangody could be a guy to replace Evans. Jermaine Taylor is an interesting SG prospect. Danny Green will be there. Ellington (although I think he's a poor fit because he's another undersized guard on a team with a few of those already). Patrick Mills.

I guess a lot would depend on what happens with our first rounder. Seems like Ford is pretty sure that we'll take Maynor. He was sure we'd get Speights last season, but it's tough to predict who'll be there and won't be there at 17, especially in a draft like this. Hell, with all the negative publicity lately surrounding Jennings, he might drop out of the lottery (although I would be shocked if he dropped past Phoenix). He's young and raw and not a pure point, but has so much talent that he could end up being the best player out of this draft in a few years and would be worth the risk.

GOBB
06-10-2009, 03:55 PM
Green is a SG without a 3pt shot. No thanks. Time to upgrade.

SixersFan76
06-10-2009, 04:03 PM
Green is a back up SG with a poor 3 point shot. Not unique in that regard. It's easier to want to upgrade than to actually do it. We already have Williams and Kapono who can't defend a soul, so not only would we have to add a back up SG who is a pure SG and can stick the 3, but that player will also have to be able to defend the position. We can probably get a back up in the draft or we could use a part of the MLE to sign a young 3 point specialist who still might be improving in Von Wafer. That being said, Green is still likely to be on the roster unless there is a specific, Kapono type back up SG out there whom we can trade Willie for - would have to be a comparable player with a slightly larger contract or similar contract for more years.

GOBB
06-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Thats why Ed Stefanski gets paid the big bucks. To find ways. That kid Terrence Williams would be a nice addition. But I dont want to spend the 17th pick on him if there are PGs to be had.

SixersFan76
06-11-2009, 11:42 AM
On talent, Williams is a lottery pick. He's had some personal issues and there have been other questions about him. An underachiever to date, but certainly someone the Sixers should be looking at if he's around at 17.

To be honest, I'm hopeful that they are just looking at the best prospect available and not on position. If they rate Williams as the best player on the board at 17 and he's a SG and not a PG, they should take him. If they feel the best player is BJ Mullens, a C, they should take him. Teams always get in trouble when they target a position and not the best player. That's generally applicable across all sports, but it's particularly important in basketball, where rosters are smaller and individual players have more of an impact on the long term success of the team.

Posterize246
06-11-2009, 12:27 PM
On talent, Williams is a lottery pick. He's had some personal issues and there have been other questions about him. An underachiever to date, but certainly someone the Sixers should be looking at if he's around at 17.

To be honest, I'm hopeful that they are just looking at the best prospect available and not on position. If they rate Williams as the best player on the board at 17 and he's a SG and not a PG, they should take him. If they feel the best player is BJ Mullens, a C, they should take him. Teams always get in trouble when they target a position and not the best player. That's generally applicable across all sports, but it's particularly important in basketball, where rosters are smaller and individual players have more of an impact on the long term success of the team.

The move doesn't seem to affect the Sixers' plans to search for a guard with the No. 17 pick in the NBA's June 25 draft.

"I think we're going to be looking for the best guard available, which is what we've been talking about all along," Stefanski said. "[Jordan] is more concerned about [getting] the best player at one of those [backcourt] positions."
..

SixersFan76
06-11-2009, 01:05 PM
I saw that quote, but I wouldn't put any stock in it. GMs are notoriously secretive about whom they like and what they are looking at. This is particularly the case when you are picking in the second half of the first round and 16 teams get to call the shots before you. I think the Sixers, like most other teams, likely will have a board listing the top 58 players. Presuming they don't trade up or down and don't trade the 17th pick all together, they likely will look at who the best player available is. Perhaps it will be up for debate if there is a SF who can't shoot from deep and is rated as the best player available, slightly ahead of their best rated PG, but in a realistic draft scenario, I still believe the Sixers will take the best player on the board, even if that player is a C or a PF. A pure SF who can't shoot from deep probably won't rate highly for them, but any other position will be up for debate.

A lot of pundits seem to think Maynor will be our guy. If Teague is still there, I think I'd rather take a flier on him, but it would be hard to quible with their choice if after the workouts, they think Maynor is their guy.

Posterize246
06-11-2009, 02:23 PM
I'd put a little more stock in Stefanski's word than some other GM's. Last year he said he wanted a big and he went and got Speights (all before we signed Brand). This year he says they're going after the best guard, which is a weakness when you consider Willie Green started for us and Royal Ivey is our primary PG backup (w/o a Miller resigning). Of course there's always the chance that a guy drops tremendously and he's too good to pass up. Kind of like how the Eagles got Maclin. But I don't see it happening. I'd put my money into us taking a guard.

And with about 11-13 of the top 20 picks presumably to be guards he'll have his options.

SixersFan76
06-11-2009, 02:32 PM
On need alone, we're going after a guard. Agreed. This also happens to be a guard heavy draft. That being said, the reason I don't necessarily think we're guaranteed to draft a guard is because at 17, it's possible that all of our top choices are gone, whereas a big that they rate highly might end up dropping down to us. Not likely, but my point was only that I doubt that Sixers are looking at a board of guards and are guaranteed to take one no matter what. If Stefanski for example loves a PF or a C and thinks that kid will be an all-star in a few years and somehow that kid drops down to 17, would he take him over a guy they have rated as the 8th best PG in the draft and whom they project as a solid back up? I hope not, althought obviously I don't know. Stefanski doesn't have to hide the ball in proclaiming we need a guard - everyone knows. At the same time, his pronnouncement that we'll take one isn't worth much either. Teams have been known to draft guys they never brought in for workouts and to take guys they publicly disparaged in the media or leaked falls rumors about. I don't disagree with you on the probability scale all things considering, but I still wouldn't put any trust in anything Stefanski says about the draft. He'll gladly tell a reporter Sixers love Lawson and will bring him in for 3 workouts when he believes that Lawson should go in the second round and will be a 3rd string PG and most other GMs would do the same thing.

Posterize246
06-11-2009, 02:38 PM
There just aren't many bigs that I think they could rate highly that could drop unless it's Mullens. Blake Griffin and Thabeet won't drop, that's guaranteed. Jordan Hill is the only one I could see slipping on draft day. Earl Clark maybe but with Speights already here I doubt they would go for him. I believe they expect Mullens to be there around 17 anyway. If he's picked before that it won't be many picks before that.

Jordan Hill's really the only guy I could see dropping to 17 on draft day and us taking a chance on him over a guard. Otherwise I think we'll go with a guard.

When I think that there's Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Flynn, Lawson, Maynor, Holiday, and Teague all in the draft...is it really possible that 8 of the first 16 picks will be point guards? One of those guys will be there for certain.

SixersFan76
06-11-2009, 03:02 PM
I hope it's not Lawson. I don't think he'll ever be able to play 30 minutes at the NBA level and stay healthy. I don't disagree with you at all on the odds of us drafting a guard. My point was more along the lines of: If Stefanski believes Mullens (or another big) is vastly underrated and badly wants him at 17, he'll never mention the kid to anyone - he might not ever bring him in. He'd tell everyone gladly that he's looking solely at guards without giving the slightest hint of interest, and if his guy drops to us, he'll gladly snatch him up. This is especially true if he thinks the kid is likely to go somewhere in the range where we are picking.

Personally, I'm not sure there is a big who would be a good fit in Philly. Hill could very well drop because he didn't test well, but people love bigs and he's not a kid like Jordan, who played poorly for one season, but tested well. He might drop to 10 or 12, but it would be shocking if he slipped to 17. At worse, he should be a Varejao type player in the NBA. He has a pretty low bust potential and is a legit 6-10.

Daye, Hansborough, Clark and Blair aren't very good fits for various reasons. Daye is very raw and is more of a 3 who is versatile, but not a great shooter (we have Young and Iggy), Hansborough has questionable NBA potential - I know he tested better than expected, but eyes don't lie. Reddick tested better than expected too, but Magic made a mistake when they took the tests over what the eyes showed in games. Clark seems more like a hybrid big rather than a true 4 and I'd be pretty shocked if he was there at 17. If he is, I think Ed takes a long, hard look just because the kid has serious talent. Blair is likely to drop if the doctor reports about his knees are accurate. Teams don't want to invest a high pick and a guaranteed contract into an undersized player with weight issues when he might have bum knees to boot.

You are right that Mullens might be the only one in that range. Although there are two kids who I think could go either way - much higher than currently projected or much lower - Gani Lawal from G-Tech is one. He has prototypical athleticism and can rebound and possibly block some shots at 4. He's young and raw, but he is someone who teams might be talking down while secretly wishing he drops down to them. Another kid is James Johnson -he was hyped, then put down and now barely talked about. But he is a very athletic kid with a lot of talent. Might be a little small by NBA 4 standars, but wingspan and athleticism should make up for height and he seems to be still filling out.

It's actually shocking how few big man there are in this draft. Griffin will go one and Thabeet isn't likely to last past 5, although I don't think it's guaranteed he goes 2nd. After that, guys who are projected as NBA 5's or 4's are few and far in between (I think Daye and Claver are looked at as 3's) - it's Hill, Blair, Hansborough, Clark, Johnson, Mullens, Derrick Brown from Xavier, Lawal, Pendergraph. Guys like Harangody and Brockman might be drafted in the second round because of recent success of some undersized PFs. Taj Gibson is in the mix. There is always one or two big Eastern European kids, although this year there isn't anyone who is projected top 30. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone else who might get drafted in the second round, let alone in the first. Make the big kid from Gonzaga, Heytvelt, maybe Lyons from Missou?

Can't think of anyone else really. The two local kids - Nevins and Cunningham? Doubt they get picked, although someone will invite them to camp, but I suppose late in the second someone gives them a look. Would someone draft Goran Sutton or Aminu in the second round? Long shot, but I guess possible.

Presuming we aren't looking at SFs, really guard heavy draft.

GOBB
06-11-2009, 03:20 PM
On talent, Williams is a lottery pick. He's had some personal issues and there have been other questions about him. An underachiever to date, but certainly someone the Sixers should be looking at if he's around at 17.

To be honest, I'm hopeful that they are just looking at the best prospect available and not on position. If they rate Williams as the best player on the board at 17 and he's a SG and not a PG, they should take him. If they feel the best player is BJ Mullens, a C, they should take him. Teams always get in trouble when they target a position and not the best player. That's generally applicable across all sports, but it's particularly important in basketball, where rosters are smaller and individual players have more of an impact on the long term success of the team.

I'm all for the best guard available approach moreso than best player given the fact I'm not high on many of the centers, power forwards in this draft. The guys I want will most likely be gone...but I never rule out guys slipping. I think thats the treat with drafts for me. Seeing a prospect fall. Imo the best prospects are at the guard position after guys like Blake and Thabeet are gone.

SixersFan76
06-11-2009, 04:05 PM
I think Williams should be around at 17, although he could go higher. Right now he's projected anywhere from 15 to 25.

I would be absolutely shocked if a guy like Jennings slipped to 17, but I'd take him in a heartbeat if he somehow falls that low. 17 is probably too low for him no matter how the draft shakes out. The only other highly rated guard I think could slip is Gerald Henderson, but I don't really want him in Philly even though he's a local kid. I think he'll be a back up his entire career. He seems to be too small to be a shut down defender at the 2 and he doesn't have a great handle or a particularly nice stroke from outside.

I know you think Holiday could slip. Like with Jennings, I would be pretty shocked if he did, but even if he was there, I'm not so sure I'd want him in Philly. He's too far away from being ready and he's not a great shooter. He could be a very good defender and a decent, if unspectacular PG, but to me he looks like a kid who will take 3 years before he reaches his potential, by which time Brand will be on his last legs. If Williams showed a little more PG prowess, I'd be more excited about a kid like that slipping, although I'm guessing if he's at 17, Sixers still take him.

I don't like Lawson at all. Think 17 is way too high for Collison. Like Teague's potential over Maynor, who is clearly a much more polished product right now. Would not be too disappointed with Williams, although he reminds me of Carney a little bit, which isn't a good thing. Think Budinger will be better than people think, but will never be a good defender so with Young and Kapono here, I'd pass. I think they could trade down and get McClinton or Douglas if they love them. I view both as a Williams type combo guard and not PGs.

Is there a particular kid you like?

GOBB
06-11-2009, 04:49 PM
That would be a dream if Brandon Jennings dropped to 17. lol I'm with you I'm taking him but a guy like Holliday? Bleh.


I don't like Lawson at all.

There are things about him I dont like. Like can he even run a half court offense? He fits the Sixers uptempo style, get out on transition and push it. However when that is taken away, isnt working then what can you expect from Ty Lawson? Eh, I have mixed views on him. Arguments that say I like him and arguments that say I dont.


Is there a particular kid you like?

Eric Maynor is who I am high on. As far as kids who want be there at 17 I wished Sixers could get? Jonny Flynn, Stephon Curry and Tyreke Evans altho I'm not super high on him (kinda critical about his game) I still like his talent.

SixersFan76
06-11-2009, 11:11 PM
Flynn would be awesome but I'd be shocked if he doesn't go in the top 10. Knicks wouldn't let Curry slip past them at 8, but he might go even earlier. He would be a nice fit here without a doubt. Evans is definitely going in the lottery. He might go top 5. Similar to Iggy a bit, but interesting player. Lots of talent - young.

Maynor scares me because there are a lot of valid comparisons to Acie Law. It would be interesting to hear from someone who's watched him a lot in college.

GOBB
06-12-2009, 08:23 AM
A knowledgable sportsfan had this to say about Maynor in the draft forum

Link to his twist on a mock draft (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131221)



I guessed the Sixers would look at Maynor at 17 (which I figure is why you ask). In my string, I had Jennings falling to them there (which I figure would be a dream scenario for you).
I like Maynor all right. I'd say he's got a shot to be a real plus defender. He's 6-2, but he's long. And he's really quick and athletic. And coming out of VCU, they play a particularly frenetic style of defense, so he's been schooled, and he's agressive defensively. Offensively, he's a guy who'll really push the tempo, and while it may not have the asthetic of what it looks like when someone like Lawson does it, he'll be effective. Not great, but effective. And he won't stop attacking the rim. That's his game. His weakness is a really awkward shot. In fact, if he had any real jumper at all, he would have been an ACC player instead of playing at VCU out of high school. He did work it to the point of becoming effective though, so perhaps it'll continue to develop, but there's definitely a cieling on him as a shooter.

I don't know if you remember him, but he kind of reminds me of Gary Grant, a really physical, agressive, athletic PG who floated around for a while in the nineties. He had some good seasons in Miami.

He and Teague grade out pretty close to me, and this was another choice I was torn on. Teague's got so much pure offense, and he's got the potential to be a legit catch and shoot guy, that I really though pairing him with both Iggy and Thad would make sense, because those guys can create shots for him. But something about Maynor's physicality and aggressive approach feels like the type of player Philly has been built around lately. Maynor's is on a much different level than Teague defensively.

SixersFan76
06-12-2009, 09:14 AM
Thanks. This actually doesn't sound too bad.

Posterize246
06-12-2009, 12:41 PM
Eric Maynor
Jeff Teague
Greivis Vasquez
Lester Hudson
Jermaine Taylor
Stefon Jackson


That's our next batch of workouts set to come in Sunday morning. I thought we already worked out Jackson once, maybe we took a liking to him? Or maybe he didn't attend his first scheduled workout. Don't know about that. Hudson, Jackson, and Vasquez are all supposed to go 2nd round which brings up again why I think we're looking for a 2nd round pick.

And it'd be very interesting to see Maynor and Teague go up against eachother. Teague's great offense going against Maynor's great defense.

GOBB
06-12-2009, 12:48 PM
Yeah we worked him out with the Ty Lawson group last week.

SixersFan76
06-12-2009, 12:56 PM
I think as with most workouts and with most teams, some guys are just bodies for workouts, and others are guys who either will go in the second round or might go undrafted and we want to see them in person. Vasquez is a guy I don't like one bit for the league. He lacks great shooting ability or elite athleticism and doesn't have a true position - he should be playing in Europe the next few seasons. I think Jackson is a hometown kid whom they might be doing a bit of a favor for.

Hudson is another high scoring combo guard and Jackson and Taylor, like Christmas, are high scoring shooting guards who might not get drafted, and might be kids we take a look at signing for the summer league. Not sure where they project.

artificial
06-12-2009, 01:00 PM
That's our next batch of workouts set to come in Sunday morning. I thought we already worked out Jackson once, maybe we took a liking to him? Or maybe he didn't attend his first scheduled workout.

He did attend. He is interviewed in the clip Gobb posted in another thread.


I had also read that analysis on Maynor, and coming from Thorpe you can trust him. Still I'm unsure about his lack of a shot, but it's as much as we can probably get with #17.

Who you guys would take between Lawson and Maynor?

I liked what I saw from Lawson in college. Good leadership skills, great handle and speed. He has a solid shot and I think he can develop into a solid 3pt shooter. But his defence worries me, and he's a little short. Also, I have doubts about how well he can manage the offence. It could very well that NC's system made him look so good...

Maynor, I like a lot what I read from him, although I really didn't saw him play. But from what I read (besides Thorpe's post) it doesn't looks likely that he ever develops an outside shot, and Philly really needs that.


Anyway, next workout with Teague and Maynor should be very interesting.

Posterize246
06-12-2009, 01:12 PM
Who you guys would take between Lawson and Maynor?


Maynor.

I think the biggest question I have with Lawson besides his size is, can he play at more than one speed? One of the things I've noticed about Maynor is that he can play fast, slow, or in between and sometimes all in the same possession. He has great change of pace/speed ability. A lot of that leads to him being one of the best at the "secondary break".

SixersFan76
06-12-2009, 02:38 PM
There is another issue with Lawson - health concerns. Either because of his size or because he is brittle, or from the way he plays, etc., not sure - but he was always hurt or nicked up. He never had any major issues, but he was hurt quite often. And look at his minutes and games played and think about how that load would increase as a starting PG in the NBA. Plus, his size is a serious concern - there are only a handfull of PGs that size who have been successful in the NBA. Maynor has other issues obviously. We're drafting 17, not 1, so any pick we'll make will be a trade off - there won't be any complete players in our range. Maynor concerns me because he was used to dominating the ball, is not a particularly creative passer, was a bit turnover prone, is very light, and doesn't have a great jump shot. I think between the two, I would probably prefer Maynor if the goal is to get a kid who can start right away. Lawson probably has a lower bust potential - he seems like he should at least be an Anthony Johnson level of quality back up in the pros, but Maynor seems like the more likely of the two to develop into a starting quality NBA point guard.

SixersFan76
06-12-2009, 02:52 PM
By the way, I'm still hoping that it's neither Lawson nor Maynor. Give me Jeff Teague. Go upside. A back up PG in the NBA is a dime a dozen. Take the kid who has the best chance of developing into a good starter or better. That of course is presuming he'll be there at 17, which is far from guranteed.

ppierce34
06-12-2009, 03:51 PM
I'm up and down on Lawson. Some days I think he can effectively run the point in the NBA, some days I can't.

I like Teague as well, but I can see him playing himself into a top 15 pick. Maynor would be next on the list for me.

Really, my hope is Jennings somehow throwing on a Sixer uni. Don't see it happening though.

GOBB
06-12-2009, 04:05 PM
By the way, I'm still hoping that it's neither Lawson nor Maynor. Give me Jeff Teague. Go upside. A back up PG in the NBA is a dime a dozen. Take the kid who has the best chance of developing into a good starter or better. That of course is presuming he'll be there at 17, which is far from guranteed.

I think Jeff Teague does has the biggest upside and he may even fit the kind of offense Eddie Jordan runs since he likes combo guards. And Teague is just that. But him being there at 17? Unsure.

SixersFan76
06-12-2009, 04:49 PM
Right now, he's projected to be there at 17, but he's exactly the type of kid who can dominate a few workouts and end up going much higher come draft time. There is at least one scheduled workout I've seen so far that pegs Teague versus Maynor head to head. Usually, the more athletic, faster player prevails in these one on ones, although not sure that would necessarily make the kid a better overall player. That being said, many GMs do give stock to these matchups or they wouldn't schedule them.

Teague is only 20 and after 2 years, he's not ready to be a full time PG yet. That being said, he has played the point his entire life unlike some other guys who become combo guards in the NBA because of height without ever having played the position. He's a combo guard in the same sense Arenas and Mo Williams are combo guards. Williams averaged 3.9 assists versus 3 turnovers his second season at Bama. Arenas actually had more turnovers than assists. They are both offensive minded NBA point guards now. Teague is in the same exact boat. Not clear if he will ever end up being a pure PG, even if a shoot first one (he'll never be a traditional PG from the look of his game) or will end up being a combo guard like a Delonte West or Lou Williams. Obviously, the Sixers don't need another Lou Williams, although they could use Mo Williams as long as he played better defense. Teague does have the offensive upside and maybe he turns into a solid PG - some even compare him to Devin Harris. Not sure if I'd go quite that far. But with Iggy and Brand, I'm not so sure we need a classic PG either.

It's not an easy call by any stretch.

GOBB
06-12-2009, 05:05 PM
What prospects you really like in this draft and which prospects you think would be good fits for the Sixers?

Posterize246
06-12-2009, 10:23 PM
What prospects you really like in this draft and which prospects you think would be good fits for the Sixers?
If we were ranking point guards I would go...

Rubio
Curry
Flynn
Holiday
Maynor
Teague
Lawson
Mills
Collison

None of that has anything to do with "potential" because that's impossible to measure and it's the reason Holiday is even in the lottery. Jennings fits in somewhere after Rubio and before Collison:oldlol: I like his flair, but from gametape I've seen of him some of it I hate. Has a tendency to jack up shots when a guy is right in his face and miss badly, and his form is really ugly. Watch this vid, some of it almost made me sick.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twl2F5iB7sA

I see the first play of the game, a beautifully run pick n roll, and I'm in awe. Then on the 2nd play I see one of the ugliest forced jumpers/bricks I've ever seen. Next play he spots up in the corner, wide open, nothing but net trey with great rotation. Then at 1:43 he makes a gorgeous pass to a big man for a layup. Then at 2:08 he goes back into his scorer's mentality and shoots a tough contested fadeaway for no reason (though he did make it). Then at 3:20 another beautifully run pick n roll even though his teammate got blocked. But then at 3:32 what the **** is he doing shooting that shot??


I'm pretty much at a point where whoever we take, as long as it's the best PG they believe to be available, I won't be upset. As long as they don't go against the obvious like picking Collison over Curry I'll be fine.

GOBB
06-13-2009, 09:42 AM
Man he made some sweet passes...but some of those shots were ugly. :oldlol: I'd put Jennings right before Holiday on your list.

2 more weeks until we see what the Sixers do/draft.

ppierce34
06-13-2009, 10:29 AM
Apparently Jennings doesn't think much of Rubio. Called him all hype in an interview after a workout with the Kings.

SixersFan76
06-13-2009, 04:57 PM
I remember Stephon Marbury talking sh*t some years back about Steve Nash. I think Jennings, whose competitiveness and maturity were already on the radar, did himself a disservice by bashing a fellow prospect for no good reason. What Jennings doesn't seem to realize, is that head to head numbers don't mean sh*t - it's whose team wins. So he was bragging about the one game he played against Rubio, when Rubio just returned from a serious injury and was playing at half strength. Jennings, whose team was heavily favored, scored some points. His team lost. He eventually lost his spot and by the time his team turned things around, he rode the pine. Rubio meanwhile kept improving as the season went on and he got healthier, and his small market team did a lot better than expected. The role of a PG is to make players around him better and to help the team win, not to jack up a bunch of shots and pad ones stats while the team goes nowhere. Stephon Marbury is the poster child for that. Jennings has given a few NBA GMs some additional concerns about himself with his statements. If that means he somehow drops down to us at 17, great. He is still young and probably has the biggest upside out of anyone in the draft outside Griffin. But he could very well turn out to be one of those kids who has a 12 to 15 year career with great numbers who is known as a team cancer and a loser. Hopefully that won't be the case, because nothing is sadder than wasted talent, but he certainly did himself no favors. As is, I think he'll impress people in workouts and someone will take a flier on him. Phoenix in a lot of ways could be an ideal fit. He could learn the PG role from Nash for a year and not have the pressure of performing right away. Although I think he goes even higher.

GOBB, I'm presuming you want to know about the guys Sixers could realistically hope to get at 17 and not guys in the entire draft we would want. Obviously, I'd love Griffin here, even if Brand is still on the roster, but it's not happening. I'm guessing you don't want to know about guys who might be a good fit in the second round if we get a pick or as unrestricted free agents. Presuming I'm not misinterpreting your question, of the guys we've talked about, who might be at 17, I think the following could pan out:

Teague - I don't think he will be able to start at PG on a good team right away, but in a few seasons, he should be a Maurice Williams type scoring PG.

Terrance Williams - he's a 4 year senior. Immense talent, but character issues and his output has never matched his ability, which is obviously a huge red flag. That being said, he seems to be a kid who should be an excellent NBA defender at the 2 and 3. He's also a stellar rebounder and passer for his size and position. He is not however a good shooter and for some reason is an absolute putrid free throw shooter. Still, if the will and heart is there, he could be a better version of Bruce Bowen - an offensively limited player who can hit 3's from the wing and get some put backs and buckets in transition, but who can take the other team's best perimeter scorer on and also move the ball efficiently in the Princeton offense and give us a rebounding edge from the backcourt.

James Johnson - I know this will seem like a head scratcher because the kid is a PF, a position where we don't seemingly have a need. At the same time, if he is there at 17, I'd think long and hard. He only played two years of college ball and yet is already 22. He's also a bit undersized. Still, with Brand coming back after a second straight season of serious injuries and Smith coming back from a torn ACL, depth could be a good thing. This kid has a world of talent. He has a long wingspan and is a solid shooter for the 4, is very athletic, and someone who would fit Jordan's system well as a poor man's Jamison.

Chase Budinger - another white guy who can't defend when we already have Kapono? Well, yes. One shooter isn't enough and while Kapono can barely get off the ground, Budinger is a stellar athlete. There are questions about his heart, but it very well could be a kid who never felt comfortable being a star - he wouldn't have to be one in Philly. He can play both the 2 and the 3, and has a chance to develop into a Rex Chapman type guard one day.

Darren Collison - he is short, he's too skinny, he lacks great floor vision, and as far as NBA point guards go, he probably isn't a particularly adept ball handler if there is press defense. He does have long arms and he can shoot spotting up. Reminds me a bit of Mario Chalmers. He's not as big or as strong as Chalmers, but he seems to be quite a bit quicker and with a better shot, so perhaps that evens out. He'll struggle to defend some of the bigger PGs - guys like Billups and Miller for example would post him to death, but he could stick with some of the quicker guys like CP and Rondo.

Eric Maynor - he is not super quick or super athletic. He's not a great passer, not a particularly creative ball handler. He needs to tack on some pounds and he is far from a great shooter. But he seems to be NBA ready - he had a lot of responsibilities on his team and perhaps he would actually improve if he had less on his plate with a team like Philly, where he could feed Brand in the post, allow Iggy to handle the ball a lot, and make the simple passes, play defense, and get to the basket and hit some open shots. If he could be an Eric Snow in his prime type, it wouldn't be the worst value at 17.

Finally, BJ Mullens - he's two years away from being a contributor and is a kid is likely to spend the next year at NBDL or wearing a suit on the bench. Still, he's one of two guys in the first round who could one day be a legitimate starting C in the NBA. Considering that in theory, we still have Sammy here for two seasons, it wouldn't be bad if we could draft and mold his replacement. Mullens doesn't know how to play the game yet, but you can't teach 7-1, 260 and he's no stiff - has good athleticism for the position and nice form on his jumper. With some work, he could be a legit starting C one day and if by next season he can show a pulse, he would also have some serious trade value.

artificial
06-13-2009, 05:35 PM
What prospects you really like in this draft and which prospects you think would be good fits for the Sixers?
Prospects I like:

Griffin
Rubio
Harden
Stephen Curry
DeJuan Blair (I don't know how good he can be, but I like the way he plays)
Milan Macvan (2nd round pick - I believe he can be the Paul Millsap type of this draft regarding game and (probable) draft position)


Prospects that would be good fits for the Sixers (PGs)

Rubio
Curry
Flynn
Evans
Maynor
Lawson
Teague
Jennings


Apparently Jennings doesn't think much of Rubio. Called him all hype in an interview after a workout with the Kings.
What's funny is that I remember reading in Jennings' blog not so long ago, how good an impression Rubio had made on him as a person, when he met him for a SLAM photo shoot (near the time they matched up).

ppierce34
06-13-2009, 06:24 PM
I imagine a lot of it is self-promotion by Jennings. Rubio is the big name in the draft and getting all the attention, he's also universally ranked above Jennings, so I imagine Jennings is competitive due to that.

GOBB
06-13-2009, 09:25 PM
GOBB, I'm presuming you want to know about the guys Sixers could realistically hope to get at 17 and not guys in the entire draft we would want. Obviously, I'd love Griffin here, even if Brand is still on the roster, but it's not happening. I'm guessing you don't want to know about guys who might be a good fit in the second round if we get a pick or as unrestricted free agents. Presuming I'm not misinterpreting your question, of the guys we've talked about, who might be at 17, I think the following could pan out:

Kinda 2 questions in one. Probably shouldve seperated. But just in general are there any prospects you're high on in this draft? Blake is one you mentioned. Anyone else you like. Could be first round, second round guys. :cheers:

Posterize246
06-13-2009, 10:20 PM
I'm usually not down on any draftees because you never know how they'll turn out. That and because I'm a huge college fan so it's hard to be objective when you like all these guys. But one guy that I didn't like that I'll throw out there is Tyler Smith from Tennessee. I was at the Temple/Tennessee ESPN game and saw Tyler get absolutely shut down by the slowest player in college basketball, 7'0" Sergio Olmos. Smith got easily frustrated and got out of the game mentally too.

Looking up the boxscore now. He finished 6-16 (but went 2-2 when the game had a minute left and out of reach, so more like 4-14) and 1-5 from three. That game I'll always remember. It was weird seeing a guy 6'7" and athletic getting absolutely shut out by a guy 7'0" who can't move his feet. Imagine a 6'7" athletic NBA player being guarded by Ilgauskas. Something like that.

SixersFan76
06-14-2009, 10:17 AM
Not a great draft this season.

I think Griffin should be a star, albeit not a super star. Hill can turn himself into a solid defender and rebounder - a Horace Grant type, but it will take some time. Rubio I'm a little on the fence about. Jennings might have the most star potential in this draft, but he also could be a total bust. Harden looks like a poor man's Brandon Roy. I think Flynn will be a solid starting PG for 10 years. Not a huge fan of Evans or Holiday, although both have a lot of potential. See them as athletes who aren't yet players and might never be. Same with DeRozan, although he has ridiculous athleticism and fluidity and is very young, so if he works on his game, he could be a star player in 3 years. Curry I like quite a bit because of his shooting and his basketball IQ. He's not talented enough athletically and not enough of a PG to succeed no matter where, but in the right system and with the right group of players around him, he could become a very nice player. I think Jack McClinton will end up being a nice 6th man who can play a little 1 and a little 2 and put up points.

Tough to project some of the European players because I've only seen glimpses of most of them. Victor Claver is probably a kid who can become a solid starter. Nando DeColo is very intriguing to me because he seems to be developing from a combo guard into a PG and at 6-5, he'd have great size for the position.

I really like Danny Green in the second round. He is a kid who while not starter quality talent, seems like he could be a nice back up swingman for some team. Nothing spectacular but a kid who will play solid, if unspectacular defense, who won't rebound or pass much, but also won't hurt you on the boards or with silly turnovers or failure to make the right pass, and who while not a great shooter, will hit the open shot consistently and should get better with work. Fact is, most guys who get drafted in the second round either don't make the league or get only a few years of burn before they are gone. He seems like a kid who if he stays healthy throughout, might have a 15 year NBA career, and not too many second rounders can say that.

SixersFan76
06-15-2009, 12:23 PM
By the way, one of the most important things I'll be watching for in the draft is what Memphis does. The way I look at it, if they don't take Thabeet number 2 or trade the pick without getting a center in return and don't draft Thabeet with a lower pick they might get in any trade deal, they would be one of the first teams I would call.

Here is what we could offer them - Dalembert and Ivey for Milicic and Jaric. We would also send them $3 million in cash. Here is what it would do for them. They are a team that has salary cap space, but they do not have a market or a team that is likely to land a huge free agent. If they like Boozer and think he's healthy, this is the best time for them to get him. If he opts out, they could add a low post scoring PF to a team that already has two very good perimeter offensive players in Mayo and Gay. However, Boozer has some limitations as a player. He's not a very good defender and he's a bit on the slow, plodding side. Right now, Memphis has a nice young C in Gasol, but Gasol is primarily an offensive player who doesn't play very good defense and also doesn't move very well. Memphis could add a center who they can effectively pair up in a tandem with Gasol and play 24 to 30 minutes a game, get shot blocking and rebounding. Memphis would also free up a bit more cap space for this season because if Dalembert agrees to waive the trade kicker (and I'm sure we could convince his agent to do just that as it would give him a chance to start and rebuild his value for the next contract rather than sit the pine and get a minimum deal from someone in two years), coupled with Ivey, total just over $12 million, while Milicic and Jaric combined total just over $14.5. In the long term, Memphis would have to pay about $2.5 million extra, which is where the cash we send them would come in.

The big benefit to the Sixers is that we get to free up cap space for next season after Milic expires. In Jordan's system, Milicic is likely to be just as effective as Dalembert will be. Even if Milicic, who himself is still only 23 years old, doesn't improve, he can still give us 24 minutes, 8 points, 7 rebounds and 1.5 blocks or so. Jaric is a better back up than Ivey and is a veteran who can play some point, some SG and some SF. Moreoever, there is the double bonus of him having an expiring contract after next season - with a continued lack of playing time, he might be persuaded to leave his last year on the table and get a nice contract from some team in Europe - in which case we'd have money to spend next off-season.

All of this of course hinges on Memphis's pick. If they take Thabeet, there is no conversation to be had. If they don't, perhaps there is a window through which we can squeeze Dalembert out the door and likely not suffer ill effects in terms of performance this season while having a potential bonanza on our hands for 2010.

ppierce34
06-15-2009, 04:50 PM
SF you are a long-winded SOB. :pimp:

SixersFan76
06-15-2009, 04:53 PM
You're right - posts too long for a message board. Better formatted for a blog as opposed to a message board. Still, what else is there to talk about if you're an NBA hoops junkie and a Sixer fanatic?

Posterize246
06-15-2009, 11:15 PM
SF you are a long-winded SOB. :pimp:
Lol agreed. You've got a lot of knowledge SixersFan76 but sometimes it's hard to read all your posts. You've got great points but I'd recommend getting to them quicker.


I'm usually not down on any draftees because you never know how they'll turn out. That and because I'm a huge college fan so it's hard to be objective when you like all these guys. But one guy that I didn't like that I'll throw out there is Tyler Smith from Tennessee. I was at the Temple/Tennessee ESPN game and saw Tyler get absolutely shut down by the slowest player in college basketball, 7'0" Sergio Olmos. Smith got easily frustrated and got out of the game mentally too.

Looking up the boxscore now. He finished 6-16 (but went 2-2 when the game had a minute left and out of reach, so more like 4-14) and 1-5 from three. That game I'll always remember. It was weird seeing a guy 6'7" and athletic getting absolutely shut out by a guy 7'0" who can't move his feet. Imagine a 6'7" athletic NBA player being guarded by Ilgauskas. Something like that.

Looks like I was pretty much right about Smith, he decided to return to Tennessee. He could play himself into the first round if he improves his outside shot.

Styles p
06-15-2009, 11:35 PM
i like tyler smith even tho he took my boy duke crews spot.

SixersFan76
06-16-2009, 04:10 PM
Fifty-five players who had declared as early entry candidates for the 2009 NBA Draft have withdrawn. There are 39 collegiate and 10 international prospects that remain early entry candidates. The 2009 NBA Draft will be held on Thursday, June 25 at the WaMu Theater at Madison Square Garden. Here is the list of players from U.S. colleges and institutions who have withdrawn their names from consideration for the 2009 NBA Draft:

Darion Anderson, Northern Illinois
Ryan Anderson, Nebraska
Dominique Archie, South Carolina
Dwayne Collins, Miami
Kenneth Cooper, Louisiana Tech
Bryan Davis, Texas A&M
Devan Downey, South Carolina
Osiris Eldridge, Illinois State
Gary Flowers, Chipola JC (FL)
Jonathan Gibson, New Mexico State
Kyle Gibson, Louisiana Tech
Luke Harangody, Notre Dame
Kevin Harris, Northwest Mississippi CC
Damion James, Texas
Mac Koshwal, DePaul
Gani Lawal, Georgia Tech
James Lewis, Fresno Pacific
Dior Lowhorn, San Francisco
Ater Majok, Connecticut
Tasmin Mitchell, LSU
Patrick Patterson, Kentucky
Scottie Reynolds, Villanova
D.J. Rivera, Binghamton
Magnum Rolle, Louisiana Tech
Junior Salters, Wofford
Donald Sloan, Texas A&M
Tyler Smith, Tennessee
Jonathan Tavernari, BYU
Malcolm Thomas, San Diego City College
Jarvis Varnado, Mississippi State
Greivis Vasquez, Maryland
Martez Walker, Riverside CC (CA)
Michael Washington, Arkansas
Jeremy Wise, Southern Mississippi
Nic Wise, Arizona

Here is the list of international players who have withdrawn their names from consideration for the 2009 NBA Draft:

Amadou Aboubakar Zaki, Nancy (France)
Nemanja Bjelica, Crvena Zvezda (Serbia)
Georgios Bogris, Iysiakos (Greece)
Vladimir Dasic, Buducnost
Adam Hanga, Albacomp (Hungary)
Rudy Jomby, Le Havre (France)
Tanel Kurbas, Kalev/Cramo (Estonia)
Milan Macvan, Hemofarm (Serbia)
Boban Marjanovic, Hemofarm (Serbia)
Tim Ohlbrecht, Bamberg (Germany)
Carl Ona Embo, Biella (Italy)
Nikolaos Pappas, Real Madrid II (Spain)
Anton Ponomarev, Astana Tigers (Kazakhstan)
Paulo Prestes, Unicaja Malaga (Spain)
Miroslav Raduljica, FMP Zeleznik (Serbia)
Fernando Raposo, Pau Orthez (France)
Evangelos Sakellariou, Pagrati (Greece)
Alexandros Sigkounas, Olimpia Larissa (Greece)
Ludovic Vaty, Pau Orthez (France)
Artem Zabelin, CSKA Moscow (Russia)

Following is the list of players from U.S colleges and institutions who remain early entry candidates for the 2009 NBA Draft:

DeJuan Blair, Pittsburgh
Derrick Brown, Xavier
Chase Budinger, Arizona
Nick Calathes, Florida
Earl Clark, Louisville
Kareem Cooper, Texas-El Paso
Brandon Costner, North Carolina State
Stephen Curry, Davidson
Austin Daye, Gonzaga
DeMar DeRozan, Southern California
Eric Devendorf, Syracuse
Wayne Ellington, North Carolina
Chinemelu Elonu, Texas A&M
Tyreke Evans, Memphis
Jonny Flynn, Syracuse
Taj Gibson, Southern California
Blake Griffin, Oklahoma
D'mond Grismore, Huston-Tillotson
Rog

ppierce34
06-16-2009, 06:28 PM
You're right - posts too long for a message board. Better formatted for a blog as opposed to a message board. Still, what else is there to talk about if you're an NBA hoops junkie and a Sixer fanatic?

Just busting your balls.

SixersFan76
06-16-2009, 07:19 PM
Still a valid point.

By the way, I really didn't think it possible a few weeks ago, but what if DeJuan Blair is there when we're picking at 17? Do we consider him in light of Brand's injury concerns. He basically looks like he could be Elton in a few years. It worked out for Utah with Boozer and Millsap and there is a slew of strong, but undersized PFs who have had success the last few seasons, many of whom aren't as talented as Blair. I know his knees were flagged for down the road and he is dropping as a result, but many are saying that those tests don't mean he can't play without problems for 8 to 10 years. What do the Sixers do if that kid is there at 17 and they believe he'll be a 14 and 10 PF in the NBA for 10 years?

ppierce34
06-17-2009, 11:21 AM
Don't know, interesting situation. I guess it would really depend on what else is on the board at that time.

Posterize246
06-17-2009, 11:33 AM
Still a valid point.

By the way, I really didn't think it possible a few weeks ago, but what if DeJuan Blair is there when we're picking at 17? Do we consider him in light of Brand's injury concerns. He basically looks like he could be Elton in a few years. It worked out for Utah with Boozer and Millsap and there is a slew of strong, but undersized PFs who have had success the last few seasons, many of whom aren't as talented as Blair. I know his knees were flagged for down the road and he is dropping as a result, but many are saying that those tests don't mean he can't play without problems for 8 to 10 years. What do the Sixers do if that kid is there at 17 and they believe he'll be a 14 and 10 PF in the NBA for 10 years?
I believe they still pass, or draft him for another team and trade his rights. Makes no sense to have Brand, Speights, and Blair on the team when we have more important issues. But drafting Blair for a team in that 20-22 range who thinks he could be gone and then trading his rights to them for another guy is a possibility.

SixersFan76
06-17-2009, 11:39 AM
Utah, New Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento and Portland are in that range.

Utah might or might not be interested depending on what they think might happen with Boozer. He seems to similar to Millsap as well.

New Orleans has West, but they are rumored to want to move him. Maybe they want to do a deal, but what can they give us? They can't take on salary for financial reasons.

Portland can give us Rodgriguez if we want him, but their pick is on the low side so a guy we like might not be around.

Guess we'll know soon enough.

Posterize246
06-17-2009, 12:16 PM
New Orleans has West, but they are rumored to want to move him. Maybe they want to do a deal, but what can they give us? They can't take on salary for financial reasons.
I would love to bring Rasual home :banana:

But doubtful. He's got a good contract for his production so it'd make no sense for NO.

SixersFan76
06-17-2009, 01:12 PM
He also only has one year left on his deal. He's a limited player though. Shouldn't play more than 18 to 20 minutes a game max. Paul and West make him look better than he would look here in all likelihood.

I know we're not taking him at 17, but I really hope the Sixers are trying to figure out a way to either land a late first round pick or an early second round pick, and draft Nick Calathes and bring him back to the US in a year or two. It's an ideal situation - he will have to get tougher and improve his shooting in Europe, and then we will have a 21 or 22 year old 6-5 PG who is mature beyond his years. I still think that on talent and potential, he's probably a top 3 PG in terms of fit in Philly out of this draft. Even if we take a PG at 17, I'd still love to add a future asset and potential trading chip like Calathes.

Posterize246
06-17-2009, 02:58 PM
So before Nick Calathes decided that he wanted to play in Greece next season he was projected to be in the Sixers draft range with Maynor/Teague/Lawson. He's going to play in Greece for a year but he is still draft eligible this year. How would you feel if the Sixers drafted him? And it doesn't have to be at 17...say they traded down to the mid-20's and drafted him knowing we couldn't have him for a year. How would you feel about that?

SixersFan76
06-17-2009, 03:20 PM
"I really hope the Sixers are trying to figure out a way to either land a late first round pick or an early second round pick, and draft Nick Calathes and bring him back to the US in a year or two." Right above your post.

Posterize246
06-17-2009, 03:47 PM
"I really hope the Sixers are trying to figure out a way to either land a late first round pick or an early second round pick, and draft Nick Calathes and bring him back to the US in a year or two." Right above your post.
wierd how I didn't even read that post and somehow both were on the same topic :oldlol:

SixersFan76
06-17-2009, 05:52 PM
With teams looking to save money, I wouldn't be surprised if someone - Portland in particular, took a flier on him. Would LOVE it if we could get another pick on the cheap and picked him up.

GOBB
06-17-2009, 06:19 PM
So before Nick Calathes decided that he wanted to play in Greece next season he was projected to be in the Sixers draft range with Maynor/Teague/Lawson. He's going to play in Greece for a year but he is still draft eligible this year. How would you feel if the Sixers drafted him? And it doesn't have to be at 17...say they traded down to the mid-20's and drafted him knowing we couldn't have him for a year. How would you feel about that?

It wouldnt bother me. I wouldnt mind it. Nick is an intriguing prospect.

SixersFan76
06-18-2009, 01:15 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-090618&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2009%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dhollinger_john%26page%3dDraftRater-090618

A great article. Highly recommend. Ranks Lawson and Calathes very high. Same with my second round sleeper, Danny Green.

Not so high on Maynor. The list of possible all out busts don't really include any guys Sixers are likely to draft, but includes Budinger, McClinton, and Mills.

GOBB
06-18-2009, 02:05 PM
Can you post it? I dont have espn insider. Cant read it. Thanks

SixersFan76
06-18-2009, 03:46 PM
Sorry, this was part of their free preview. When I read it, it was freely available.


The draft is Thursday, June 25, and now that we know who's in and who's out, it's time to unveil this year's Draft Rater -- a statistical projection of the top NBA prospects coming out of the college ranks.


To review for the uninitiated, the Draft Rater looks at a player's college production in a variety of metrics and a few other salient facts (such as his height, birth date and years of college experience), and from that projects what a player's Player Efficiency Rating will be when he reaches his peak.

The basic idea is to use the NBA's past to predict its future. The Draft Rater looks back at prospects from past drafts and then, using regression analysis, identifies which attributes were determinants of pro success and which weren't. My database of college players goes back to 2002, which is still a bit limited, but with each year the rater is getting smarter because it has more information to work with -- not only an extra year of drafts, but an extra year of pro seasons from each of the prospects.

This year, several subtle changes helped reduce the error rate when back-tested on previous drafts. First, I ran a separate regression for each of the three position categories -- point guards, wings and bigs -- something that wasn't really feasible when I started doing this. But now that the pool of prospects is large enough, this method has produced greater accuracy.

Second, instead of tying the projection to a player's third-year PER, I used a more general descriptor of what his peak value was -- allowing me to minimize the impact of fluke seasons and better adjust for some players who entered the league young and didn't max out until their fourth or fifth season. (Some of these players will perform much better than projected, but keep in mind that it's all relative. For more on why the projections seem low, see this explanation.)

Using those changes, I was able to reduce the standard error in the projections from last year's 4.0 to this year's 2.8. This means nothing to 98 percent of you, but the number geeks in the crowd will recognize that this is still quite large -- as you might expect when you're trying to project what a 19-year-old will do when he's 25. Nonetheless, it does represent a significant improvement from a year ago.

The one area where the method still appears to struggle is with one-and-done freshmen, and this speaks to a more general problem: Information is the key to making this thing work, and the more information we have, the better. For players who leave after their first year, the picture is often incomplete, whether we're using a statistical model or traditional scouting.

Moreover, a number of those players played only one college season, and while the rater had an accurate view of a few (such as Kevin Love and Michael Beasley), it missed the boat on some who performed extremely well (including Derrick Rose to an extent, and O.J Mayo, Anthony Randolph and Eric Gordon). Gordon is perhaps easier to understand because he was playing hurt at Indiana and his primary skill (shooting) didn't show through statistically, but that doesn't excuse the others.

One important thing to point out is that the Draft Rater is rating "pro potential," which is sometimes different from "pro performance," depending on the professionalism and work ethic of the player involved. In other words, the fact that Michael Sweetney and Shawne Williams rated very highly in previous seasons isn't necessarily a damnation of the system. Rather, their off-court habits are the type of thing every general manager has to take into account when evaluating players, and something that is usually invisible when looking at their college performance.

That said, before last season the Draft Rater had performed extremely well.

From 2002 to 2007, there were 15 players who were (a) among the first 10 collegians drafted and (b) excluded from the top 12 by the Draft Rater. In other words, these were the college players the Draft Rater thought were drafted too high. Of those 15, not one has played in an All-Star Game. The only two who have started a significant number of games over the long term have been Kirk Hinrich (who was 13th in the Draft Rater in 2003) and Charlie Villanueva.

Who were the other 13 top-10 picks not favored by the Draft Rater? Spencer Hawes, Acie Law, Fred Jones, Melvin Ely, Marcus Haislip, Fred Jones, Jarvis Hayes, Rafael Araujo, Ike Diogu, Channing Frye, Randy Foye, J.J. Redick and Patrick O'Bryant.

In other words, when the Draft Rater has suggested avoiding a player, that's turned out to be good advice.

And the Draft Rater has also spotted some of the biggest steals in recent years:

SixersFan76
06-18-2009, 03:47 PM
That was the first half. Here is the second.

This year, the Draft Rater is closer to the general draft consensus than usual, with two glaring exceptions that I referenced above.

Let's get to them:


The pleasant surprise: Ty Lawson

There are two players who are neck-and-neck for the top spot in this year's Draft Rater. You could easily guess that one of them is Blake Griffin, but most folks never would have guessed that the other is Lawson.

Lawson, who is coming off an electric performance leading North Carolina to the championship, grades out highly for several reasons: Though he's short for a point guard, his shooting numbers (47.1 percent on 3-pointers), strong assist rate and microscopic turnover ratio (9.1, first among point guard prospects) all point to him as an NBA keeper.

The Draft Rater puts Lawson slightly ahead of Griffin for first, but this doesn't mean a team should take Lawson first -- the standard error in the projections for point guards is higher than it is for big men, which means random noise could be putting Lawson ahead just as easily as court performance. If the consensus is that Griffin is the better player, I don't think Lawson's statistical record alone is strong enough evidence to refute it. Additionally, we've heard questions about Lawson's work ethic and injuries.

But the rating is emphatic enough for me to say Lawson should be at the top of the college point guard ladder, ahead of Jonny Flynn, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague and Co. (If you're wondering about Ricky Rubio, I'll have more on him next week.)


The unpleasant surprise: DeMar DeRozan

I'd be hard-pressed to name a potential high lottery pick through the years that the Draft Rater has been less excited about. I rated 90 prospects for this draft, and DeRozan ranked 54th among them. Two of his teammates -- Daniel Hackett and Taj Gibson -- outranked him, as did assorted other non-entities like Kevin Rogers, Chinemelu Elonu and Ben Woodside. I'll wait here while you Google them.

Why? Because there really isn't anything in DeRozan's statistical profile that makes you think "NBA star." He rarely took or made 3-pointers and he had a strongly negative pure point rating, which are two powerful indicators for a wing player, and his numbers in other areas were unimpressive, too. In particular, he was a bad free-throw shooter, which indicates that his outside shot might not ever be a strong suit.

Some scouts I have talked to have compared DeRozan to Rudy Gay in terms of being an NBA athlete but having a questionable motor, but that comparison falls flat, according to the Draft Rater: Gay was the top-rated player in his draft class, while DeRozan is nowhere close. And while he's supposed to be a great athlete, he didn't show it on the court often enough: His rebound, block and steal totals were all very ordinary.

As I mentioned above, one-and-done players sometimes fool the system -- they're the youngest, least experienced guys in the pool, and, thus, a major factor is how much they improve post-draft rather than just how good they are pre-draft.

Nonetheless, I'd back away from DeRozan if the 12 relatively safe guys at the top of the Draft Rater are still on the board.

Speaking of which, let's take a look at the collegians for 2009.


Rankings: The Top 12

Top 12-Rated Collegians For 2009
Player School Draft Rater
1. Ty Lawson North Carolina 16.34
2. Blake Griffin Oklahoma 16.21
3. Tyreke Evans Memphis 15.02
4. Austin Daye Gonzaga 14.24
5. Stephen Curry Davidson 14.18
6. Nick Calathes Florida 13.66
7. DeJuan Blair Pittsburgh 13.56
8. Danny Green North Carolina 13.28
9. Jonny Flynn Syracuse 12.99
10. James Harden Arizona St. 12.97
11. Hasheem Thabeet Connecticut 12.90
12. Earl Clark Louisville 12.88


For starters, let's talk about two of the players who play multiple positions -- this matters now that we're rating players in part based on position.

Stephen Curry graded out at 14.18 as a wing, but only 12.86 a point guard. Either way it puts him in the top dozen players, but by this rating he's a much better prospect if he's able to defend against wings.

The difference for Earl Clark was less dramatic, but he rated slightly better as a wing than as a big man (12.14), which would have dropped him from 12th to 15th.

A couple other names on here are likely to raise eyebrows:

Austin Daye may not have had a great season, but the Draft Rater looks favorably upon a 6-11 small forward who can shoot (assuming he can play the 3 in the NBA). His numbers were strongest in the categories that project best to the pros, including 42.9 percent on 3s and 2.1 blocks per game, which is why he moves all the way up to No. 4 on this list.

Nick Calathes is under contract in Greece but still will be draft-eligible, and he rates higher than the hot point guards most teams are discussing in the top 15. Though knocked for his athleticism, he had high rates of rebounds and steals and a strong 2-point shooting percentage. Teams in luxury tax trouble should look particularly hard at him since he can be stashed in Europe for a year or so.

Danny Green is the other surprise on this list. He's rated highly every year I've done this, so seeing him doesn't shock me anymore, but he's received little attention nationally. Still, he's a great shooter who can defend and he rates as the third-best wing after Daye and Tyreke Evans.


Rankings: 13 To 25




Collegians: No. 13 through 25
Player School Draft Rater
13. Jrue Holiday UCLA 12.73
14. Jeff Teague Wake Forest 12.50
15. Gerald Henderson Duke 12.17
16. Paul Delaney UAB 11.85
17. Aaron Jackson Duquesne 11.83
18. Darren Collison UCLA 11.80
19. Terrence Williams Louisville 11.80
20. Leo Lyons Missouri 11.53
21. Eric Maynor VCU 11.35
22. John Bryant Santa Clara 11.30
23. DeMarre Carroll Missouri 11.18
24. Tyler Hansbrough North Carolina 11.11
25. Wayne Ellington North Carolina 11.04


This part of the list is an interesting mishmash of potential sleepers and potential busts. In general, players in this range have some kind of NBA career but can always count on getting some quality time with the family during All-Star Weekend.

We're awash in point guards in this draft and the six of the top nine names in this section play the position. The lesson is this: If you're in the market for a point guard, one will fall to you and they're more or less the same after the first couple.

Down at No. 13, Holiday is a bit of a surprise -- given that he's projected to go higher -- but he has the two characteristics that produce the greatest error rate in the Draft Rater: he's a point guard and he's played only one year. In other words, his real value might be much higher or much lower, and since the consensus is much higher, it wouldn't bother me to use a top-8 pick on him.

Delaney and Jackson are second-round sleepers at the point, but since projections for point guards are a bit more volatile, perhaps they shouldn't really be this high. The other "who's he?" on the list, Bryant, is a 6-11, 275-pound center from Santa Clara who could have a fine 10-year career as a third center in the Greg Kite/Aaron Gray mold.


Rankings: Potential Disappointments




Collegians: Other Notables
Player School Draft Rater
26. Jordan Hill Arizona 10.97
28. B.J. Mullens Ohio State 10.81
30. James Johnson Wake Forest 10.63
31. Chase Budinger Arizona 10.51
45. Derrick Brown Xavier 9.55
48. DaJuan Summers Georgetown 9.38
51. Jodie Meeks Kentucky 9.35
52. Sam Young Pitt 9.34
54. DeMar DeRozan USC 9.26
62. Toney Douglas Florida St. 8.56
68. Patrick Mills St. Mary's 8.36
83. Jack McClinton Miami 6.64


And here's where we get the players the Draft Rater is down on.

Several potential first-round picks don't pass muster here, with short, shoot-first combo guards in particular bearing the brunt of the Draft Rater's wrath -- Jack McClinton, Patrick Mills and Toney Douglas were the three lowest-rated "name" prospects, and Jodie Meeks didn't fare a whole lot better.

The other big surprise down here is Jordan Hill, who could go as high as No. 4 but rates 26th in the Draft Rater. Hill had solid rebounding and scoring numbers, but his percentages weren't off the charts and his poor assist and turnover numbers were a red flag. Though one might think that ball-handling categories wouldn't matter for a power forward, apparently they do -- pure point rating (a measure of how a player passes and handles the ball) is a pretty strong success indicator for frontcourt players, and only four prospects rated worse than Hill.

One of those players was Mullens, who was the absolute worst at -2.85. Everyone concedes he's a project, so perhaps it's not such a big surprise to see him down this low. But the Draft Rater is saying that maybe even the middle of the first round is too high to be taking the risk on him.

Pitt's Sam Young also graded out extremely poorly. He had the worst pure point rating of any wing player, and the other thing that hurt him is that he's one of the oldest prospects in the pool. How old? He's 19 days older than six-year vet Darko Milicic and a full half-decade older than Jrue Holiday.

Take it for what it's worth. Hollinger had some good predictions on some guys and some horrible ones on others, which doesn't make him different from NBA GMs for that matter

GOBB
06-18-2009, 04:07 PM
Yeah it wasnt free on my end for some reason. Kept denying me. Good and interesting read indeed.

SixersFan76
06-19-2009, 11:17 AM
The 25th can't get here fast enough.

Posterize246
06-19-2009, 01:34 PM
We scheduled a workout with Mullens

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/76ers_schedule_workout_with_Mullens.html


The 76ers have scheduled a pre-draft workout with Ohio State center B.J. Mullens and Notre Dame guard Ryan Ayers.

The workout will be tomorrow, Saturday, at 10 a.m. at the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine.

There has been speculation recently about whether the Sixers would schedule a workout with Mullens, the 7-footer with plenty of potential. Ayers, 6-7, averaged 11.1 points a game last year for the Fighting Irish. Mullens averaged 8.8 points a game last season with Ohio State.

Since the season ended, Sixers General Manager Ed Stefanski has said the team would most likely draft a perimeter player, but if Mullens, who by all accounts would take a few years to develop, slips to the 17th spot -- the Sixers draft position -- he would be a tough player to pass on.

Rumors have swirled that Stefanski has been shopping current center Samuel Dalembert -- one specific rumor has him going to the Charlotte Bobcats -- but two people within the NBA circle have said they would be surprised if Stefanski could find a suitor for Dalembert this off-season, saying that more than likely Stefanski could find a much better deal next off-season, when Dalembert would have only 1-year remaining on his contract.

Two white centers on our roster? :confusedshrug:

I still think it's very unlikely but it does raise questions. I think of it kind of the same way with how we hired Jordan. We already had our man (in this case a PG) but it wouldn't be fair to the franchise to not at least check what else is out there in case you find something impossible to pass on.

GOBB
06-19-2009, 02:00 PM
We already have Jason Smith. No need for a BJ unless the babe is hawt! heh

Posterize246
06-19-2009, 02:04 PM
No need for a BJ unless the babe is hawt! heh
Weak.

Posterize246
06-19-2009, 02:12 PM
I will say this, dude got up the floor quick for a 7 footer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKaSWyvmuuw&feature=related

Like I said before, I won't be upset with whoever we draft because nobody knows how good any of them will be. I'll wait 2-3 years to see the couple guys we passed on become all-star caliber, and then be upset.

GOBB
06-19-2009, 02:25 PM
I'll be pissed if they take BJ Mullens. It wouldnt be Shawn Bradley with the #2 pick but it'll be along those lines. Him getting up the floor is the only highlight? Show me actual skill please.

Posterize246
06-19-2009, 03:29 PM
Something else I thought about when trying to differentiate Maynor/Lawson. If Maynor was the pg on the UNC championship, he would be every bit the prospect that he is coming from a small school in VCU. If Lawson had been the pg on that VCU team, how much would he have really stood out as a prospect? Would VCU have been nearly as good as they were? Just something to think about.

SixersFan76
06-19-2009, 05:38 PM
Would Maynor have even started for NC? And what kind of numbers would he have put up considering he's not a good pure PG, is a bit turnover prone, is not a great shooter, etc.? He had the ball in his hands and played inferior competition, which is a nice way to boost your stats. Lawson can shoot the lights out, takes care of the ball, and is a better passer, so what kind of numbers would he have put up at VCU? That's the other side of that argument.

Sixers are bringing in Blair as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if they worked out Johnson. Nothing wrong with bringing guys in.

Mullens is a young and raw C, but he has good athleticism, good size, and solid potential. He's not a stiff. He just doesn't know how to play the game yet. Would I want them to take him? No. But it's also not crazy to work him out. Plus, if someone below us is very high on him, this at least creates the impression that we might take him and might encourage a trade offer as opposed to a team just sitting there and waiting to take him - teams have workouts with guys they don't really want all the time and that makes sense to do it here as well.

Finally, it's not the craziest thing in the world to take a C if we believe he will be a good one in two years. In two years (if not sooner), Dalembert will be gone. Smith doesn't seem like a starting NBA 5 and Speights looks like more of a 4. Mullens will only be 21 or 22. If they think he has solid starting C potential and will be cheap, they can wait to groom him and play him big minutes in his third season. True centers are tought come by in this league. Especially guys who aren't stiffs athletically.

GOBB
06-19-2009, 05:54 PM
Speights is a PF. Him playing Center is like Thad Young playing PF. Sure they can "play" it but its not thier natural position. Speights natural position is PF whereas Mullens is a legit big man prospect.

Brandon Jennings told the Sixers he wouldnt work out for them because he expects to be long gone by 17. Cant say I blame him but I would have liked to see what the coaches had to say running him thru drills.

I think Maynor would have did a good job at UNC. Dickie V would be talkin nonstop how his jumper which was a red flag isnt blah blah blah. Dude just looks like a gamer man. The more clips I can find the more I'm impressed. With UNC Pgs they have always been talented but how many really panned out at the next level? Not that it means Lawson wont but I'm just saying. Lawson production is solid no doubt about it but I dont know. Something isnt grabbing me with him over Maynor.

I dunno Im going with my gut. I'd be happy if we could aquire a 2nd round pick tho. Even if it means moving down a couple slots so a team can take thier guy (could b BJ Mullens as s76 implied).

1 week away before all this guessing becomes finalized.

artificial
06-19-2009, 09:31 PM
I definitely hope Sixers don't draft Mullens.

Mullens is not ready to contribute, carries heavily the "potential" label of which I'm not a fan, and doesn't fills an immediate team need. If the Sixers draft him I will be cheering for him, but I will be pi$$ed for a day or two. Let's hope it was just done to put nerves on other teams as mentioned above.

I'm intrigued by who will the Sixers will pick. At this point I'd say my favorite candidates for the Sixers are Maynor and Lawson.

We still have a week to speculate this and that :D

Posterize246
06-19-2009, 10:08 PM
Would Maynor have even started for NC? And what kind of numbers would he have put up considering he's not a good pure PG, is a bit turnover prone, is not a great shooter, etc.?
Of course he would have started. I'm saying if Lawson and Maynor switched places so Maynor would only have to beat out Bobby Frasor for a starting job. And I would assume his numbers would look similar to Lawson's. You can't compare Lawson's turnover rate to Maynor's because 1) Maynor played more minutes per game and 2) Maynor had the ball in his hands a better % of the time and was asked to score for the better of the team. Lawson definitely is the better ball handler of the two but the stats don't tell the complete story.


He had the ball in his hands and played inferior competition, which is a nice way to boost your stats.
The argument of a player playing inferior competition has become a myth. You know another PG who played inferior competition? The #1 pick of last year's draft, Conference USA is far from a power conference. And when Maynor did play against teams from a power conference like Vanderbilt of the SEC (31 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 5 steals), @ Oklahoma of the Big12(15 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 8 turnovers, 3 steals) and UCLA in the NCAA tourney (21 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal) he held his own.

If I go back to last year there's @Miami of the ACC (27 points, 3 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 2 steals), and @ Maryland of the ACC (25 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 turnovers, 1 steal). And you could also go back to his sophomore year when he had 22 points and a game winner on Duke in the tourney.

George Hill was a guy who played against worse competition than VCU in college and averaged 11 ppg as a rookie when he started for an injured Tony Parker.

Stephen Curry played the best basketball of his life against better competition. He didn't drop his production when he played Oklahoma (a top ranked team), he dropped a career high. Derrick Rose, Jason Thompson, Javale McGee, Courtney Lee, George Hill, and JR Giddens were all 1st rounders taken from low level conferences. And besides Giddens, all of them had very successful rookie years.

I just hate the "inferior competition" argument. If you're good, you're good.


Lawson can shoot the lights out, takes care of the ball, and is a better passer, so what kind of numbers would he have put up at VCU? That's the other side of that argument.

Lawson isn't a lights out shooter. He's a decent college shooter who shot a high % partly due playing with 3 other NBA draftees and a future draftee in Ed Davis. The easiest comparison to make for this is the former UNC PG, Raymond Felton, who made 44% of his threes his junior season and made 70 (19 more than Lawson) but played with other NBA talents prospects Sean May, Marvin Williams, and Rashad McCants. Now he can't make 30% of his threes in the league with Charlotte. Lawson can be decent when he's spotting up, but you'll never seen him launching threes off the dribble or coming off of a screen. Just pure spot up. I woudn't hesitate to say that Maynor would have shot over 40% comfortably if he had played with Hansbrough, Ellington, Ed Davis, and Danny Green.

He does take care of the ball, that's the one thing I will give him. His ball handling is far superior to Maynor's. But I doubt he would have put better #s at VCU than UNC. Lawson was put into the perfect situation for him to look good and have his talents in the spotlight at UNC because it was a running team and he was able to use his speed. I have questions about what he does when he has to slow it down. He has trouble playing at more than 1 speed.

Don't forget that Lawson pulled out of last year's draft because he couldn't get a first round guarantee. He also had that DUI he got after a draft workout with I believe Indiana. And this year he had that nagging foot injury half the season that I'm worried about. Now he's considered a mid 1st round pick in a deeper PG pool. Give me Maynor.



edit: wow that's the longest post I've made in a long time on here :oldlol:

Posterize246
06-19-2009, 10:19 PM
Sixers are bringing in Blair as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if they worked out Johnson. Nothing wrong with bringing guys in.

Mullens is a young and raw C, but he has good athleticism, good size, and solid potential. He's not a stiff. He just doesn't know how to play the game yet. Would I want them to take him? No. But it's also not crazy to work him out. Plus, if someone below us is very high on him, this at least creates the impression that we might take him and might encourage a trade offer as opposed to a team just sitting there and waiting to take him - teams have workouts with guys they don't really want all the time and that makes sense to do it here as well.

Finally, it's not the craziest thing in the world to take a C if we believe he will be a good one in two years. In two years (if not sooner), Dalembert will be gone. Smith doesn't seem like a starting NBA 5 and Speights looks like more of a 4. Mullens will only be 21 or 22. If they think he has solid starting C potential and will be cheap, they can wait to groom him and play him big minutes in his third season. True centers are tought come by in this league. Especially guys who aren't stiffs athletically.
I agree with all this. I don't want Mullens but you never wanna not even take a look at a guy and he turns into a future stud. Maybe you like him and you find a way to grab him at 17 and acquire a PG elsewhere? You never know what could come your way so being prepared is always a good thing.

I didn't see anything on bringing in Blair though. Where did you see it?

Styles p
06-20-2009, 01:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oto65oChjc

a vid of mullens.

artificial
06-20-2009, 09:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oto65oChjc

a vid of mullens.
That's easily the mixtape with most ads I've ever seen :oldlol:

Posterize246
06-20-2009, 11:30 AM
Trying to read something into the 76ers' putting Ohio State center B.J. Mullens through a predraft workout today?
Don't.

A source familiar with the situation told the Daily News that the Sixers remain focused on using the No. 17 pick in the NBA's June 25 draft to select a perimeter player, either a point guard or a shooting guard.

The workout for Mullens appears to be a case of the Sixers' honoring a long-standing commitment. At this point, there seems to be no reason to believe Mullens could be part of a trade scenario. The Sixers expect him to be off the board before No. 17.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20090620_Sixers__workout_of_Ohio_State_s_Mullens_s eems_to_be_a_courtesy_move.html

donsanchez306
06-20-2009, 03:45 PM
what about that vasquez kid? is he late first/second round material. we need a second rounder if so. 6'6 can play pg/sg. :cheers:

just watched the draft combine on nbatv. got me thinking.

Im so nba'd out
06-20-2009, 03:51 PM
what about that vasquez kid? is he late first/second round material. we need a second rounder if so. 6'6 can play pg/sg. :cheers:

just watched the draft combine on nbatv. got me thinking.
If thats the kid from maryland he is stupid.If he would of entered the draft last year he would of been a 1st round pick instead he stays another year becomes a projected late 2nd round picks and if he stays another year he prolly wouldnt even be drafted.

donsanchez306
06-20-2009, 04:05 PM
dammit! i knew it was too good to be true. this draft sucks (speaking about vasquez) :rant

artificial
06-20-2009, 05:10 PM
If thats the kid from maryland he is stupid.If he would of entered the draft last year he would of been a 1st round pick instead he stays another year becomes a projected late 2nd round picks and if he stays another year he prolly wouldnt even be drafted.
If you're talking about Greivis Vazques, he already pulled out of the draft.

SixersFan76
06-20-2009, 06:43 PM
I haven't watched enough of Maynor to be able to argue this. My point is simply that there is a reverse side of that argument. There is a reason Maynor wasn't recruited by top schools and why he's not projected as a higher pick. There is also a reason Lawson is now being thought off for the lottery and people are comparing Maynor to Acie Law. But I'm not a huge fan of either.

Posterize246
06-21-2009, 12:27 AM
I haven't watched enough of Maynor to be able to argue this. My point is simply that there is a reverse side of that argument. There is a reason Maynor wasn't recruited by top schools and why he's not projected as a higher pick. There is also a reason Lawson is now being thought off for the lottery and people are comparing Maynor to Acie Law. But I'm not a huge fan of either.
I'm still trying to figure out how Law went so high when he's basically the same player as Curtis Jerrells who probably won't even be drafted this year. :confusedshrug:

SixersFan76
06-21-2009, 10:51 AM
Guys that play for teams in weaker conferences and on teams with less than stellar talent, end up putting up some impressive numbers. Average players on bad NBA teams often put up gaudy numbers as well. Sometimes it's a player who is actually very good regardless, but typically, it's a guy who is putting up numbers because he has the ball in his hands all the time. Acie Law's numbers his senior season were no worse and probably more impressive than what Maynor put up.

Posterize246
06-21-2009, 11:02 AM
That's why looking at numbers is pointless when looking at a prospect no matter the conference. Just like a Jodie Meeks and Luke Harangody are the top scorers in the country as far as power conferences and by a good margin, yet are viewed (well in Harangody's case, was viewed) as 2nd round picks. I think the Acie Law comparison's come more from 1) them both being seniors and 2) both were known for their clutch time play. Other than that I see absolutely no similarities in style or ability. To be honest I hadn't really heard that comparison until you brought it up but I really don't see it.

And hey, maybe Maynor turns out to be a bust just like Law, but their styles are still different. Like I mentioned earlier the guy that reminds me of Acie Law in this draft is Curtis Jerrells who's unlikely to get drafted. Law being regarded as a lottery pick in the first place was just a huge mistake.

GOBB
06-21-2009, 11:52 AM
I dont see the Acie Law comparisons either.

SixersFan76
06-21-2009, 11:41 PM
Both 6-3. Both played PG. Both played in weaker conference for teams that weren't so great that they led to the post season. Both were known as clutch players. Both good scorers but not great shooters. Neither one is particularly fast. Both decent PGs but not great ball handlers or particularly creative passers. Both ok defenders, but nothing outstanding. Neither one is a great athlete, but not terrible either. Both had approximately 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Both weren't expected to go in the first round when the year started, but stock shot up with strong senior seasons and solid post season play.

GOBB
06-22-2009, 12:03 AM
Maynor showed better PG skills than Acie Law did. In fact he can push it uptempo or half court. Control the tempo of an offense. Something Acie Law couldnt do in college. He struggled to do it. There were doubts/questions about his ability to play PG because he was more of a combo guard. Maynor is a PG thru and thru. Acie Law could attack the basket better than Maynor can. And defensively there is no comparison at all. Acie Law was a gambler.

So I really dont see much in terms of comparisons of the two. Outside of height/weight and the fact they entered college having to prove they were better than bigtime schools actually thought. And they proved that no doubt.

SixersFan76
06-22-2009, 12:14 AM
The main thing is that neither one has anything that makes them stand out as an NBA starter. Neither had any great skill. Neither is super quick. Neither is very fast. Neither is super strong. Neither is a great athlete. Neither one is a great shooter. Neither one finishes well in the lane when there is contact. Neither one is a great ball handler. Neither one is a particularly creative passer. They are different players, but no two players are alike. You can find differences with any two players, but these two also have a good deal of similarities. The most important one that I see is the lack of any one quality that would make me thing they can be starting quality players in the NBA.

Lawson at least has great speed. Flynn is a great athlete and is super quick. Holiday has great size for the position. Jennings is an NBA quality athlete at 19. Rubio is an incredibly gifted passer, etc.

Again, this is not to say that Maynor won't continue to get better, won't surprise people, and can't become as good or better than any or all of these players. It's just I don't see anything particularly outstanding about his game. I find it troubling when the kid can't do anything particularly well - not a great passer, not super athletic, not particularly fast, not a great passer, not a great shooter, not great size (height is fine, but not great wingspan or strength), not great at finishing with contact - makes me wonder how he will be a starting PG in the NBA.

GOBB
06-22-2009, 12:26 AM
I understand your views on Maynor. They are valid. I just couldnt get in tune with the Acie Law comparison much because I always viewed him as a combo guard. Maynor a PG thru and thru. So when i hear Acie Law comparison it reads like their games are compared. And thats where I'm lost. But the two have something in common that you pointed out where they made a buzz thus improving thier stock and will be expected to be quality starting PGs. Acie flopped, and Maynor very well could go down the same path. So if that is where the comparison stems from then cool. I can grasp that.

My top prospects I want for the Sixers Maynor isnt high but given what I think will be there at 17 I wouldnt want him to be passed up over a prospect I dont feel is better. I'll keep wishing upon a star they can find a way to draft Jonny Flynn. Pretty mad his stock rose so damn high.

Posterize246
06-22-2009, 12:28 AM
Both 6-3. Both played PG. Both played in weaker conference for teams that weren't so great that they led to the post season. Both were known as clutch players. Both good scorers but not great shooters. Neither one is particularly fast. Both decent PGs but not great ball handlers or particularly creative passers. Both ok defenders, but nothing outstanding. Neither one is a great athlete, but not terrible either. Both had approximately 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. Both weren't expected to go in the first round when the year started, but stock shot up with strong senior seasons and solid post season play.
Height is really the only thing they have in common. A lot of this stuff could be said about a lot of other PG's in the league. Take out the part about being good scorers and you pretty much have yourself Eric Snow. But the comparisons in their style are completely different. For instance...

Eric Maynor style:
Pick and roll play is on point
Floater in the lane (a la Tony Parker)
Ability to play different speeds, sometimes all in the same possession (fast, slow, in-between)
Master of the "secondary break"
Hesitation moves
Ability to get to free throw line

Acie Law style:
Spot up jump shots
Double crossover coming back to his left
Left handed
Movement off the ball
Craftiness around the bucket

These are things that each player excels at. Everything listed for one player, the other pretty much cant do.


If there are any Law/Maynor comparisons out there they have to be more for their intangibles (such as clutch play, leadership, etc.) rather than their actual style. Law was never a PG in college, he just played the position. Same way Salim Stoudemire did at Arizona but everybody knew he wasn't a PG and never would become one. Maynor's mentality is that of a point guard. Maynor's twice as good as Law at controlling an offense and will be a PG in the leauge, there's no "combo" in him.

Other point: I'm not sure where you got that TAMU is in a "weak" conference. They play in the Big 12 with teams like Kansas and Texas and sent 5 teams to the tourney that year. Law's stock could have shot up because he was one of only 2 first round PG's that year (unless you consider Crittenton and Stuckey "PG's").

Their success at the NBA level could be comparable, that nobody really knows. And if that's what you're comparing then hey maybe you're right. They're just 2 completely different players though. But hey at the #17 pick in a "weak" draft how many times do you get a starting caliber player?

GOBB
06-22-2009, 12:38 AM
Good post Posterize. Agreed

SixersFan76
06-22-2009, 12:45 AM
Some good points. You're clearly high on Maynor. My comparison to law was for the reasons I listed when I was responding to GOBB - similar players athletically and without any great skills or athletic talents that would make them stand out. I've only seen Maynor a few times, and wasn't particularly impressed, nor have I been impressed by his intangibles. A very good college player no doubt, but he won't have the ball in his hands non-stop like he did in college so I'm concerned about what exactly he would bring to the table. He wasn't a particularly good PG as a passer or a guy who made his teammates better by getting them the ball in great spots. He dribbled a lot, didn't shoot great, etc. But that could also have been a result of playing with inferior talent and the system he was in. Plus, heart is something that doesn't show up in the stat line. If the Sixers end up taking him at 17, I won't be instantly thrilled like I was with Young and Speights, two guys I loved in college, but at the same time, I won't be disappointed either, like I was when they took Carney. If they think he has "it" and will be a good NBA PG, I'll hope they are right on it.

Posterize246
06-22-2009, 12:52 AM
Some good points. You're clearly high on Maynor. My comparison to law was for the reasons I listed when I was responding to GOBB - similar players athletically and without any great skills or athletic talents that would make them stand out. I've only seen Maynor a few times, and wasn't particularly impressed, nor have I been impressed by his intangibles. A very good college player no doubt, but he won't have the ball in his hands non-stop like he did in college so I'm concerned about what exactly he would bring to the table. He wasn't a particularly good PG as a passer or a guy who made his teammates better by getting them the ball in great spots. He dribbled a lot, didn't shoot great, etc. But that could also have been a result of playing with inferior talent and the system he was in. Plus, heart is something that doesn't show up in the stat line. If the Sixers end up taking him at 17, I won't be instantly thrilled like I was with Young and Speights, two guys I loved in college, but at the same time, I won't be disappointed either, like I was when they took Carney. If they think he has "it" and will be a good NBA PG, I'll hope they are right on it.
Respected. I don't expect Maynor to be a stud. But I do expect him to have a long career, be a starter, and standout on defense. Something in the 13.0 points/6.5 assists/1.5 steals/2.3 turnovers kind of range. Shooting percentages unknown because that's one of the things that can greatly improve or stay the same. But if he can get anything like those stats there then I'd say that was a solid #17 pick.

donsanchez306
06-22-2009, 01:02 AM
you guys all have me sold on maynor at the 17th pick LOL.

if we don't get him i'll be like :banghead:

i'm thinking about nickname eric the mayor maynor.

if we draft him does he wear number 3 still lol.

Posterize246
06-22-2009, 01:13 AM
While I haven't seen nearly as much of Rubio and Jennings as I have other guys, I still stand by this post I made 6 months ago


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113994

SixersFan76
06-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Those are pretty lofty numbers on Maynor. If a guy can shoot and play defense and put up 13 and 7 with low turnovers, he is worth a lottery pick, let alone the 17th. If we get him, I hope you're right on his potential.

As for Flynn, he is the least likely guy from all the PGs to be a bust. Both Rubio and Jennings have super start potential, but it would shock no one if both end up being washouts who never pan out. Rubio is tough to judge because he's only 18 years old. He has great vision, but limited athleticism and isn't a great shooter, so there is a lot of projection for the future. Jennings has great athletic ability, but doesn't seem to have a position, isn't a great shooter, and is frail. Again, he's only 19, so tough to project.

Flynn on the other hand might not have that super star potential, but I would be utterly shocked if he turned out to be a bust. I view his floor as Mookie Blaylock/TJ Ford, and his ceiling as a poor man's Chris Paul. He will be a very good NBA player for a long time. Whether he will be special or merely a solid starter, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 6 years, Rubio and Jennings are draft statistics. I would be shocked if Flynn is not playing 25 to 30 minutes for some team in 6 years.

Posterize246
06-22-2009, 02:33 PM
The more I look at it the more I see the possibility of 1 of those top PG's being there at 17. Flynn, Curry, Holiday, or Jennings.

1. There's 16 picks before the Sixers pick, so it's likely that 4 PG's could be selected in those top 16. But 1 of those picks is already Griffin, 1 of those picks will be Thabeet, and 1 of those picks will be Rubio. So now it's like 4 of the top 13 picks have to be PG's.

2. I would rule out teams like the Wizards (Arenas), the Raptors (Calderon), the Nets (Harris), the Bobcats (Augustin, possibly Felton), and the Bulls (Rose) taking a PG. It's always possible but in all these cases they have a young PG for the future already in place or are going in another direction in the draft. So now 4 of a remaining 8 picks would have to be PG's. Out of those remaining picks you know Evans, Derozan, Harden, and Hill are guaranteed to be 4 of them. So do the other 4 have to be those remaining four PG's? Add in that they would be competing for those spots with guys like Henderson, Williams, Clark, Johnson, Daye, Mullens, Blair, and Hansbrough and it's far from a guarantee.

3. Intangibles. Stuff like for instance, Jrue Holiday has refused a workout with the Warriors. That could change their look. Or another is the Pistons reportedly giving BJ Mullens a draft promise, something they also followed through with with Stuckey. (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/06/report_pistons_give_bj_mullens.html) That'd be another team that passed on a PG. Jennings' attitude with calling out Rubio is also something that could drop a players stock. So that kind of stuff could add in.

4. The possibility of a team who's drafting a PG being more intrigued by Maynor, Lawson, or Teague than 1 of those "top 4" which could drop 1 of them. We can't forget that Maynor has had workouts as high as #11 (Nets, Pacers and Bulls have worked him out), Lawson as high as #5 (Wizards, Warriors, Knicks, Raptors, Nets, Bucks, Pacers, Pistons, and Bulls have worked him out) and Teague (Warriors, Pacers, and Bulls have worked him out). It's definitely happened before.


There's a decent chance that Lawson and Maynor won't be our only 2 guys to look at on draft day. The downside to that is that we didn't get a workout with any of those top guys, though I think we could have. The Bulls got a workout with Flynn so I don't see how we couldn't have got one. I'm hoping our options are a little more open on Thursday night.

ppierce34
06-22-2009, 03:41 PM
I like Flynn and Jennings both a lot.

As for Maynor, I agree with SF that there is nothing exceptional about him, but at the same time there really isn't a glaring weakness either. He has a very steady game, I'd be happy with the pick.

SixersFan76
06-22-2009, 03:46 PM
Sometimes guys drop, but in this case, I'd be shocked if any of the guys you mention drop to 17. If teams above us don't want them, someone will trade up to claim them. There is little chance in my opinion that Curry, who is being discussed as high as 3, drops to 17. Holiday is widely believed to be lottery bound, and numerous teams, including Sacramento, New York, and Milwaukee are high on him. He is also a guy who is big enough to play SG defensively, and to be paired with a small scorer - even a team like Washington would consider him, thereby allowing Arenas to play off the ball more. Flynn is viewed as the second best pure PG in this class and also appears lottery bound. Jennings is the one guy who could slide to 17, but I doubt a team like Phoenix would let him slide past them. He is the most likely guy as he's the only one in that list who isn't projected by top evaluators to go in the top 12. His stock is all over the place, as high as 4 in some discussions, and as low as 14 in others. It's conceivable that if he doesn't go to Phoenix, Detroit and Chicago pass and no one would move fast enough to snatch him up.

Pistons did not give Mullens a promise. That rumor has been refuted and Mullens has worked out with teams picking after the Pistons, including Philly. Stuckey shut down his workouts after meeting with the Pistons. Mullens did not. That is telling. They too could be looking for a PG by the way.

In all likelihood, we'll be picking between Maynor, Teague, Lawson, Collison, and Calathes (who could make sense if Sixers already know they'll retain Miller and don't want to add a guaranteed contract right now, but want a younger option to replace Miller in 2-3 years).

There is nothing wrong with hoping that one of the 4 you mention drops, but I doubt it would be anyone but Jennings, and even he seems to be a long shot. However, stranger things have happened I suppose.

ppierce34
06-22-2009, 03:59 PM
I agree. Bottom line is teams will have trouble passing on the talent. I can't see teams passing on Flynn, Lawson, Curry, or Jennings before 17. Those are guys with too much talent to maybe reach for another position of need or roll the dice on a more raw prospect.

ppierce34
06-22-2009, 04:02 PM
There is nothing wrong with hoping that one of the 4 you mention drops, but I doubt it would be anyone but Jennings, and even he seems to be a long shot. However, stranger things have happened I suppose.

I'd be surprised most if it was Jennings honestly, but like I said I'd be amazed if any of those 4 make it out of the top 15.

donsanchez306
06-22-2009, 04:13 PM
you guys are on post quality fire with this thread. thanks for the insight........i on the otherhand couldn't be colder. breaking down the top 16 picks is genius from a their is this many pgs and this many teams. i feel better about this draft now.....we may get a dropper .....we may lose maynor early in this draft.....WOW. I can't wait until thurs. :hammertime:

artificial
06-22-2009, 04:33 PM
The more I look at it the more I see the possibility of 1 of those top PG's being there at 17. Flynn, Curry, Holiday, or Jennings.

With the math you did , it's certainly a possibility one of them falls. But I agree with the above opinions, it's still a very, very slim possibility.

Just to play along, if I was forced to bet on who of those 4 would fall at #17, it would be Jennings. I agree with SF76 there. A month ago I would have said Holiday or even Flynn, but the perceived value of both of those guys has skyrocketed through this month.

Although I'm unsure Jennings would develop fast enough, we can always hope he is available there.

Funny how at the beginning of this thread Jrue was a very likely candidate to be at #17 and we developed a discussion on whether he should be taken or not.


I agree. Bottom line is teams will have trouble passing on the talent. I can't see teams passing on Flynn, Lawson, Curry, or Jennings before 17. Those are guys with too much talent to maybe reach for another position of need or roll the dice on a more raw prospect.

I do think there's a strong possibility Lawson is available at #17. His value has practically switched places with Holiday's in this month.

ppierce34
06-22-2009, 04:39 PM
I've seen Lawson as high as 7 in some mocks. It really comes down to this being a wierd draft in that there's not a whole lot of stand out prospects so it seems people are having trouble placing guys. Still like I said before, I don't see any of the 4 I listed falling out of the top 15, too much talent for teams to pass on and if one does seem to fall, you could see a team trade up and snag that guy before he gets to 17.

SixersFan76
06-22-2009, 10:13 PM
If he goes 7, maybe Holiday or Jennings drops. I think he should be around at 17 though. His height and injury history are still enough of a concern to teams where it would be shocking if he went top 10. This is just a terrible draft. Everyone except Griffin is such a project.

One guy who could drop is Gerald Henderson. I still can't figure out how it is that he's rated in the top 25, let alone top 15, but many seem to think he's going in the lottery. He's basically an undersized SG who can't shoot. How is he all that different from Jones, another Dukie who went higher than he should have? I guess I'm just not seeing something the scouts see. I thought he was very similar to Ellington, and Ellington is now projected as a second rounder.

One kid I really like by the way is Sergio Llull. In 2 to 3 years, I can see him being the next Jose Calderon. He's already a nice pick and roll PG, and as he gets stronger and works on consistency of his jumper, I can see him being that type of player in the NBA. Someone is going to take this kid in the second round and have a steal on their hands in a few seasons. And he's playing for Real Madrid, one of the European powerhouse teams, in a good league, and getting solid minutes, so he should have ample room and opportunity to develop. Would love it if we got our hands on a second rounder and drafted this kid. Him and Green are big time second round wishes for me.

Posterize246
06-22-2009, 11:03 PM
I wasn't saying I expected it. More that there's a 20-25% chance. Which is enough to say that maybe Maynor/Lawson/Teague aren't our only possibilities. And yeah Jennings is the one I think could drop of the 4.

SixersFan76
06-23-2009, 09:51 AM
Who does everyone want at 17? Realistically - don't say Griffin or Evans, since we're not getting them at 17.

I'm not sure I'd want a guy like Holiday or Jennings - they are a couple of years away. Holiday reminds me a bit of Antonio Daniels. Jennings can be a scoring PG, but he can also end up a bust.

I hope they take the best player available, regardless of position - unless it's a pure small forward - we don't need to add any more of those.

SixersFan76
06-23-2009, 12:51 PM
By the way, the one thing that scares me to death about Lawson is his size. Yes, height can be overrated at times, but it's not just that Lawson is short - 6 feet in shoes, it's that he is also small. Some short guys have good wingspans. Not Lawson - he has a wingspan of a guy who is 6-1. Some are long, with a good standing reach - not Lawson, he had the shortest standing reach in the draft. He also lacks the explosive athleticism of a guy like Flynn, who boasted a 40 inch vertical. He is strong and he's quick, but a guy who can only go 100 mph to compensate for his other short comings is not a starter in the NBA, he's a change of pace back up PG.

GOBB
06-23-2009, 04:53 PM
Who does everyone want at 17? Realistically - don't say Griffin or Evans, since we're not getting them at 17.

Jonny Flynn, Steph Curry is who I want.
Two guys I wouldnt mind is Jennings or Teague.

Thats it. These guys are off the board I hope Eric Maynor is there.


After that its whatever just no Center named BJ Mullens. I've been high on Flynn for so long I often feel like a gr0upie until I realize Posterize has been on Flynn longer so I feel much better. :)

SixersFan76
06-23-2009, 06:10 PM
Sadly, Curry and Flynn are locks for the lottery at this point. Curry won't last past 7. Flynn has impressed so many people in workouts, that if he starts to drop, someone will trade up for him. He is going to be a good NBA player.

I'm with you. I think I would rather take a gamble on an upside guy like Jennings or Teague, presuming they are available at 17, rather than go for Lawson or Maynor. I'm guessing Jennings goes by 14 or 15. Teague should be there though, so I'd go for him.

As far as Lawson and Maynor go, I suppose I'd rather take a flier on Maynor than Lawson, just because Lawson is so small.

Posterize246
06-23-2009, 06:21 PM
Teague I like if Lou isn't around. Trying to convert two 6'1" guys into PG's doesn't reall excite me. Have to have one or the other. Jay Bilas just said Maynor is capable of starting for NBA teams next season, take it how you wish.

GOBB
06-23-2009, 06:52 PM
The thing why I take Teague even with Lou Williams? Talent, upside and a valuable asset that someone else might view as such. To me that would be a BPA type selection.

Posterize246
06-23-2009, 07:04 PM
I've loved Teague and I thought he was going to be a lottery pick, and was viewed as one by most after that game vs. UNC. But if we take him I think we use Lou as a trading chip. No need for both of them.

edit: Teague would eventually draw some fans back to the building.

Posterize246
06-23-2009, 07:15 PM
Teams like Indiana and Dallas have draft parties at their stadiums every year. We don't have anything like that do we? :confusedshrug:

I saw that we had one in 2007 (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20070627_Sixers_hosting_draft_party.html) but that's it.

GOBB
06-23-2009, 07:20 PM
Might have a draft party for season ticket holders. I'll text msg my friend. 1 sec

GOBB
06-23-2009, 07:36 PM
Nope he didnt get any invite to a draft part. Ah well.

Posterize246
06-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Cheap asses.

SixersFan76
06-23-2009, 10:11 PM
I think unless you have multiple picks or a lottery pick, it's probably not something most teams do. Seems like more of a marketing event for bad teams. Come to think of it, being 22nd in attendance, maybe they should have a draft party. Then again, would look pretty bad if no one showed up.

Posterize246
06-23-2009, 10:32 PM
Teams having a party:

Warriors
Mavs
Spurs
Pacers
T'Wolves
Thunder
Clippers
Hornets
Kings
Suns
Grizzlies
Heat
Hawks
Pistons
Jazz
Bucks
Knicks


Not having a party:

Sixers
Cavaliers
Raptors
Bulls
Lakers
Blazers
Rockets (no picks)
Bobcats
Nets
Wizards
Nuggets
Celtics
Magic


I think '07 was the only one we've had in recent years. Would still be a cool thing to go to. They could hold it at a smaller venue if they're worried about empty seats.

HaNdLe ThE RoCk
06-24-2009, 02:31 AM
Trust me, Eric Maynor is the real deal and if he's there at #17 and Philly drafts him..You've got yourself one of the best players in this draft.

Yes, he's that good

Posterize246
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Doug Gottlieb just threw a hook at me. He said unless Camby or Kaman is traded, he truly expects Brandon Jennings to be the rookie of the year next year. Wow.

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 01:54 PM
I would bet serious money that Jennings will not be the rookie of the year.

Chad Ford by the way is very high on Maynor for what that's worth.

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 01:55 PM
Todd Doug (St. Charles)
What is the highest you think Maynor can go tomorrow? It seems like he's ready to play right now..

Chad Ford
He's my favorite sleeper in the draft. I think is range is 13-24. Right now I have him on the low end of that range because of feedback, but personally, I think he should be much higher.

Kevin (PHILA, PA)
With the 76ers looking for a viable PG of the future, who do you like among Lawson, Teague, Jennings, and Maynor?

Chad Ford
I hear they love Lawson, Maynor, Jennings, Teague in that order

Posterize246
06-24-2009, 02:09 PM
It's weird that they could like Jennings more than Teague but didn't bother to bring him in. Did we invite him and he declined? I'm trying to find the lowest team Jennings worked out for. Suns at 14 just off of a quick google search.

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 02:37 PM
Several points:

1 - while I believe Ford formulated his opinion based on various conversations with people in the organization, he himself admits that GMs never tell him who they want, so his opinion could very well be wrong.

2- Jennings attended a workout in New Jersey that was attended by Stefanski.

3 - We have a European scouting department and DiLeo has a lot of contacts in Europe, so Sixers can easily get a read on the kid without personally watching him workout in Philly.

4 - They could have invited him and his agent refused because he felt our pick is too low or we could have not invited him at all, thinking that there is little chance he would be there at 17.

5 - It's not out of the ordinary for a team, particularly one picking outside the top few spots, to not workout a few of the guys they like so as to creat the impression they aren't interested in them in order to disuade the teams picking below them from trading up and snatching that player before your turn comes.

GOBB
06-24-2009, 03:10 PM
It's weird that they could like Jennings more than Teague but didn't bother to bring him in. Did we invite him and he declined? I'm trying to find the lowest team Jennings worked out for. Suns at 14 just off of a quick google search.

Yes Sixers invited him and he declined. Reason? He feels he will be long gone before 17 so didnt feel the need to work out for them.

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 03:54 PM
What is your source that the Sixers invited Jennings for a private workout and he declined?

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 03:59 PM
Nevermind - found this:

"Courtney Witte, the Sixers' director of player personnel, said he and the staff had been unable to convince Brandon Jennings, the Oak Hill Academy star who spent this season in Italy, to come in for a visit. "He's being considered considerably higher than the 17th pick," Witte said. "We've had multiple conversations with his people, but their expectations are that he'll be at a certain level [above No. 17]." Jennings, the Naismith and Parade Magazine high school Player of the Year in 2008, averaged 5.5 points in 27 games for Lottomatica Virtus Roma in Italy's Serie A, and 7.6 points in 16 Euroleague games."

But also found this:

"Brandon Jennings participated in a group workout that included Terrence Williams and Johnny Flynn. Represenatives of 18 other NBA teams were on hand to observe the workout."

Not clear if the Sixers were there, but one would think that with New Jersey just an hour and a half drive away, they probably made it.

GOBB
06-24-2009, 04:27 PM
I could be a d!ck right here but I'll pass. Maybe I should be the Sixers PG :lol

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 04:34 PM
A dick why? Because I asked for a source? Remind me, did you ever ask for a source on this thread only to be provided with one? And did you also ask to be a dick and not only because you were inquisitive? That's what I thought. I'm sure you believe you could be the Sixers PG, but if not, would you look into your crystal ball and tell us whether they'll re-sign Miller and if not, whom they will draft, whom they will sign, and what trades if any they will make. Wouldn't have to deal with all this suspense and read all these know nothing idiots on ESPN and RealGm and other reporters with contacts to NBA front offices.

GOBB
06-24-2009, 05:04 PM
2- Jennings attended a workout in New Jersey that was attended by Stefanski.


"Brandon Jennings participated in a group workout that included Terrence Williams and Johnny Flynn. Represenatives of 18 other NBA teams were on hand to observe the workout."

Not clear if the Sixers were there, but one would think that with New Jersey just an hour and a half drive away, they probably made it.

Contradiction.

You went from I know to I'm not sure but its very likely/possible. Stems from your recent "You think you know" rants. I found it funny.

ppierce34
06-24-2009, 05:40 PM
I'd be surprised if Jennings is rookie of the year, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 3 years he's considered the best player to come out of the draft.

Posterize246
06-24-2009, 06:01 PM
Sixers are bringing in Blair as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if they worked out Johnson. Nothing wrong with bringing guys in.



I didn't see anything on bringing in Blair though. Where did you see it?

bump. anyone? :confusedshrug:

HaNdLe ThE RoCk
06-24-2009, 08:53 PM
espnu right now if you want to see maynor. replay of the caa championship

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 09:16 PM
"23 of the 30 NBA teams were represented at the Nets practice facility: the Nets, Hawks, Celtics, Bulls, Cavaliers, Mavericks, Nuggets, Warriors, Rockets, Pacers, Lakers, Grizzlies, Heat, Hornets, Knicks, Magic, Sixers, Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Raptors, Jazz and Wizards. Some of the familiar faces at the draft workout included Larry Bird (Pacers), Danny Ainge (Celtics), Kiki Vandeweghe (Nets), Donnie Walsh (Knicks), Ed Stefanski (Sixers), Tony DiLeo (Sixers) and B.J. Armstrong (Wasserman Media Group agent), among many others."

Please, feel free to GFYS. And thanks for once again picking arguments instead of adding value.

Inquirer article that originally mentioned Mullens will be in for a workout mentioned Blair.

SixersFan76
06-24-2009, 09:42 PM
http://philadunkia.com/?p=388

Posterize246
06-24-2009, 10:17 PM
The more I look at it the more I see the possibility of 1 of those top PG's being there at 17. Flynn, Curry, Holiday, or Jennings.

1. There's 16 picks before the Sixers pick, so it's likely that 4 PG's could be selected in those top 16. But 1 of those picks is already Griffin, 1 of those picks will be Thabeet, and 1 of those picks will be Rubio. So now it's like 4 of the top 13 picks have to be PG's.

2. I would rule out teams like the Wizards (Arenas), the Raptors (Calderon), the Nets (Harris), the Bobcats (Augustin, possibly Felton), and the Bulls (Rose) taking a PG. It's always possible but in all these cases they have a young PG for the future already in place or are going in another direction in the draft. So now 4 of a remaining 8 picks would have to be PG's. Out of those remaining picks you know Evans, Derozan, Harden, and Hill are guaranteed to be 4 of them. So do the other 4 have to be those remaining four PG's? Add in that they would be competing for those spots with guys like Henderson, Williams, Clark, Johnson, Daye, Mullens, Blair, and Hansbrough and it's far from a guarantee.

3. Intangibles. Stuff like for instance, Jrue Holiday has refused a workout with the Warriors. That could change their look. Or another is the Pistons reportedly giving BJ Mullens a draft promise, something they also followed through with with Stuckey. (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2009/06/report_pistons_give_bj_mullens.html) That'd be another team that passed on a PG. Jennings' attitude with calling out Rubio is also something that could drop a players stock. So that kind of stuff could add in.

4. The possibility of a team who's drafting a PG being more intrigued by Maynor, Lawson, or Teague than 1 of those "top 4" which could drop 1 of them. We can't forget that Maynor has had workouts as high as #11 (Nets, Pacers and Bulls have worked him out), Lawson as high as #5 (Wizards, Warriors, Knicks, Raptors, Nets, Bucks, Pacers, Pistons, and Bulls have worked him out) and Teague (Warriors, Pacers, and Bulls have worked him out). It's definitely happened before.


There's a decent chance that Lawson and Maynor won't be our only 2 guys to look at on draft day. The downside to that is that we didn't get a workout with any of those top guys, though I think we could have. The Bulls got a workout with Flynn so I don't see how we couldn't have got one. I'm hoping our options are a little more open on Thursday night.
According to draftexpress' newest blog, the Pacers are extremely interested in Ty Lawson at #13 and that has helped Brandon Jennings slip in their mock to guess who? The Philadelphia 76ers.

GOBB
06-24-2009, 11:03 PM
"23 of the 30 NBA teams were represented at the Nets practice facility: the Nets, Hawks, Celtics, Bulls, Cavaliers, Mavericks, Nuggets, Warriors, Rockets, Pacers, Lakers, Grizzlies, Heat, Hornets, Knicks, Magic, Sixers, Blazers, Kings, Spurs, Raptors, Jazz and Wizards. Some of the familiar faces at the draft workout included Larry Bird (Pacers), Danny Ainge (Celtics), Kiki Vandeweghe (Nets), Donnie Walsh (Knicks), Ed Stefanski (Sixers), Tony DiLeo (Sixers) and B.J. Armstrong (Wasserman Media Group agent), among many others."

Please, feel free to GFYS. And thanks for once again picking arguments instead of adding value.

Inquirer article that originally mentioned Mullens will be in for a workout mentioned Blair.

Thanks for actually going out and finding a source instead of us relying on what you assumed took place. Appreciate it.

Posterize246
06-25-2009, 01:56 PM
I'm hoping we manage to pick up a 2nd rounder and get a guy like Christmas, Ellington, Meeks, Thornton, J. Taylor, or Green.

And I'd like to bring in Shan Foster from last year's draft for camp :confusedshrug:

nicsman
06-25-2009, 09:10 PM
Holliday, Lawson and Maynor still here. Who we gonna take??

GOBB
06-25-2009, 09:21 PM
Sixers draft G Jrue Holiday at 17.

Posterize246
06-25-2009, 09:28 PM
the irony of this thread :lol

nicsman
06-25-2009, 09:40 PM
Chu guys feel then? Good pick/bad pick? Tbh I didn't think Jrue was going to fall to us so I only really had a look at Maynor and Lawson. Does he fulfil our needs? Is he gonna start for us?

AI09
06-25-2009, 09:43 PM
Let me clue you in to something, posting Internet sources or sites where fans make predictions are about as valuable as the rest of your posts.

Sack up moron and admit that Holiday will go in the lottery and you're a moron and were wrong because you rely on Internet sites written by fans and not on predictions of expert opinions who do this for a living.

Will Holiday go before 17 or not? Answer the question - oh, wait, you know he will and being a moron, you are trying to find irrelevant sources. Any moron can find any number of Internet cites claiming any kind of crazy **** and that's exactly what you're doing because you don't have anything valuable to add and you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Only a moron would equate legitimate reporting with posts of fans on Internet cites and clearly you're a moron - no use arguing with a moron.

Just sit there and read contrarian cites and get into idiotic arguments while waiting upon a star. Legitimate sources all claim Holiday will go in the lottery. He'll go in the lottery and you can cite any number of Internet posts by fans where blue is green and blue is yellow. It will keep you warm and fuzzy at night.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :lol :lol :lol

Posterize246
06-25-2009, 09:55 PM
:roll: :roll: :roll: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :lol :lol :lol
don't go too hard on him :lol

Posterize246
06-25-2009, 09:59 PM
I watched 4 or 5 UCLA games this year. 2 of them in the tourney (VCU, Nova) the one vs. Michigan and I forget what else. What I know of Holiday is very limited except that he's an exceptional defender. I watched him D up Manny Harris in the Michigan game like it was his job. It's hard to look at his point production and get a feel for how good he is offensively. UCLA has one of the slowest, dragged out offenses in the country and Ben Howland is known as a defensive guy. We also don't know how he will adjust to playing PG. He was a PG in high school but went to UCLA where a senior All-American was in place.

What I like about the pick: It's what I believed is the best player available while also picking up a need. It was a guy who had worked out for teams as high as #4. And I love defensive guys. Also allows you to play him with Lou Williams in the same backcourt so he can cover the taller assignment. Good pick. I'm happy.

donsanchez306
06-25-2009, 10:07 PM
GOBB u are crazy for not believing in jrue in the lottery.(crazy as in crazy like a f'n fox)

WOOO HOOO this draft.:hammertime:

the sixers are on draft fire.

Posterize246
06-25-2009, 10:27 PM
They took Holiday despite not having had him in for a workout.

''When (his advisors) thought he'd go in the top 10, he cancelled,'' said Tony DiLeo, the Sixers senior vice-president/assistant general manager. ''We interviewed him in Chicago (at the predraft combine). We studied him. He fits our team.''
..

ppierce34
06-25-2009, 10:48 PM
Really thought they were going to go Lawson there, even thought Teague might have been an option even with Holiday falling out of what seemed to be a sure-fire lottery pick as of this morning. I agree with above his size is a nice benefit and I think he'll make the transition back to point well enough. He's a good playmaker, but he'll have to pull in the reigns a little bit, when I saw him he tended to have a bit of that AI tendency of dribbling and probing till he found a hole in the defense. If he's gonna be a full-time point that's not gonna fly.

Posterize246
06-25-2009, 11:11 PM
jrue is only 18, will be a beast...kinda like dwade a little bit...nobody heard of dwade earlier in his college career either...

Iguodala twitter...Jrue turned 19 about 2 weeks ago though



"We tried to move up a little bit, we couldn't move up, we feel very fortunate because most people had him going top-10," said Sixers assistant general manager Tony DiLeo. "For him to drop to us, we're ecstatic. He's exactly what we wanted."


"We're excited to add Jrue to our roster and we think he will fit in well with our team's style of play," said Sixers general manager Ed Stefanski. "He has great upside, displays aggressiveness on both ends of the court, has a great nose for the ball as well as the size and strength to play both guard positions."


"Our scouting staff was unanimous," DiLeo said. "Looking at the players in our area, players we thought might drop down to us, he was a wish player to us. We didn't think he would drop down. But we were unanimous as a staff that if he dropped down, we were going to take him."


"He's young and you never want to put a lot of pressure on," DiLeo said. "It's the same as the last couple of years with Thaddeus Young and Marreese Speights. I'm sure he'll get an opportunity. As with Thaddeus and Marreese, we'll see how he develops, see how he plays. We weren't looking at him to really come in and make an impact for next season. We're looking for the future with him. We think we got a real good one."

I wonder who they were targeting in a move up and what they were offering?

artificial
06-25-2009, 11:33 PM
Not a fan of Jrue before the draft; but now he's a Sixer so this is a different story.


It's no secret that he is a project to be worked on, and won't deliver much in the short run. Kind of wonder what made all those teams that worked him out at higher positions pass on him. Probably more NBA-ready players were selected before.

I'm guessing they put Green or Smith on the table, which wasn't probably enough.

Go Jrue!!

Posterize246
06-26-2009, 12:44 AM
ESPN says he slipped because of concerns over his shoulder



Holiday can take a huge sigh of relief. He slipped a bit, not because of his talent, but because of some concerns about a shoulder injury that were just enough to scare some teams away, a la what happened to Danny Granger with mild concerns about his knee a few years ago. This is a great pick for Philly, which gets a lottery talent at 17 and has its point guard of the future.

artificial
06-26-2009, 01:24 AM
ESPN says he slipped because of concerns over his shoulder
Thanks for clearing that up. The Granger mention is irrelevant, but still manages to make me smile.

Let's hope the best for this kid now :D

GOBB
06-26-2009, 11:48 AM
When did Jrue suffer that minor shoulder injury? During the season?

Posterize246
06-26-2009, 12:30 PM
I think the Sixers were trying to land Jodie Meeks 2nd round. Here's their twitter...



Stefanski, DiLeo and staff still pursuing "other players," stay tuned to see if the Sixers make a move for a 2nd round pick.
about 15 hours ago from web


Sixers still active on the phones
about 14 hours ago from txt


Ed Stefanski has confirmed that the Sixers are done for the night, player they were looking at came off the board
about 13 hours ago from web

Meeks went #41. Nick Calathes and Marcus Thornton could have also bee guys they were looking at.

GOBB
06-26-2009, 01:28 PM
Damn! Wish Sixers could have got Meeks or Calathes.

Yo Posterize, Christmas didnt even get drafted. Wonder where he'll sign and why he wasnt drafted.

Posterize246
06-26-2009, 01:53 PM
Damn! Wish Sixers could have got Meeks or Calathes.

Yo Posterize, Christmas didnt even get drafted. Wonder where he'll sign and why he wasnt drafted.
I wasn't shocked he wasn't drafted until I saw Robert Vaden get drafted. Vaden's the same player just not as good. I'd expect him to be invited by the Sixers to camp. My dad's good friends with his agent Andre Buck and I used to work at Buck's basketball camp when I was 15. I know his mom pretty well but Andre's hard to get in touch with. But with Buck being from south Jersey, Christmas being from Philly and Temple and with him already having a workout with the team, I'd expect him to be there. Especially since we still have no shooting and only 3 guards.

I think Christmas' lack of an in-between game hurt him. Same thing that happened to Shan Foster last year.

GOBB
06-26-2009, 04:18 PM
Would be cool if he ended up on the Sixers roster.

GOBB
06-26-2009, 05:00 PM
Ed Stefanski, ever mindful of the value he places on his local ties, reached out late Thursday night to Temple's Dionte Christmas, inviting him to join the Orlando summer league team the 76ers will be sharing with the New Jersey Nets.

Christmas, who had been projected as a second-round selection during Thursday night's NBA draft, went unclaimed. He is likely to have multiple summer league and European offers. The Sixers leave July 2 for Orlando; Stefanski is awaiting a decision whether Christmas will join first-round draft choice Jrue Holiday and second-year big man Marreese Speights on the summer roster.

''He's a great kid, he's local,'' said Stefanski, the Sixers' president/general manager. ''Now, he has to prove it all over again.''

The 6-5 Christmas is the first player in Atlantic 10 history to lead the conference in scoring in three successive seasons; he finished his career with 2,043 points, the fourth Owl to surpass 2,000. He set school records for career three-pointers with 319 and for one season, with 107 as a senior.

If there was anything that kept him from being drafted, it might be his reputation as a volume shooter as opposed to a guy who could come off an NBA bench and provide instant offense. On the other hand, he is known for having a quick release and an ability to catch and shoot off screens.

Welp u called it Posterize. Ball in Christmas court now.

Posterize246
06-26-2009, 05:30 PM
I'd expect Stefon Jackson to be invited to. But what's this about sharing a team with NJ? That mean we're gonna have a Holiday/Douglas-Roberts/C. Lee/Speights/Lopez starting lineup?

GOBB
06-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Watching Ed Stefanski he said the 3 guys were Holiday, Lawson and Teague.

Ed Stefanski also said you can go up to $3mil to buy a 2nd round pick. He said they are expensive to get and they had a big figure to get a 2nd rounder. They had a player in mind and couldnt get him. He didnt say who.

Grinder
06-26-2009, 06:08 PM
Eh. I don't know about this pick, wasn't very high on Holiday to begin with. I would have been happier with Maynor or Lawson. Holiday's got the most upside but I'm not sure he'll ever pan out from what I've seen of him. It'll be hard to see him be the starting point guard if we don't resign Andre Miller.

I'd love to be wrong and see him turn out to be the next Dwayne Wade though.

GOBB
06-26-2009, 10:58 PM
Heard on comcast sportsnet Christmas agreed to join the Sixers camp

Posterize246
06-26-2009, 11:02 PM
Heard on comcast sportsnet Christmas agreed to join the Sixers camp
Saw that too. I'd expect him to workout for more than just us unless we somehow give him a training camp invite at the end of it. I remember Mark Tyndale playing for both us and Orlando last year. Gotta get your name around the league as much as possible. Wonder how it would feel for him having training camp on Hawk Hill. :lol

Posterize246
06-27-2009, 12:46 PM
I think the Sixers were trying to land Jodie Meeks 2nd round.

Damn! Wish Sixers could have got Meeks or Calathes.


The Sixers also tried to acquire a relatively early second-round pick. Their target according to a source familiar with their thinking, was Kentucky shooting guard Jodie Meeks.

The 6-4 Meeks, a shooting guard, went No. 41 to Milwaukee. He scored 1,246 points in three college seasons and set a school record as a junior with 117 three-pointers.
:mad:

GOBB
06-27-2009, 12:51 PM
Damn man I would have loved Jodie Meeks. And the fact Milw took him 2nd round just says he will be a player. They do pretty good drafting 2nd round. Ugh! Perfect replacement for Willie Green in the future.

Why didnt Sixers find a way to get a 2nd round pick and take Blair? Heh Heh Heh

Posterize246
06-27-2009, 01:10 PM
Michael Redd
Ramon Sessions
Mbah a Moute
Dan Gadzuric
Charlie Bell

All 2nd round picks (or in Bell's case undrafted) who are a part of Milwaukee's regular rotation and they're all good besides Gadzuric. Damn Milwaukee knows what to do in the 2nd round.

el gringos
06-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Eh. I don't know about this pick, wasn't very high on Holiday to begin with. I would have been happier with Maynor or Lawson. Holiday's got the most upside but I'm not sure he'll ever pan out from what I've seen of him. It'll be hard to see him be the starting point guard if we don't resign Andre Miller.

I'd love to be wrong and see him turn out to be the next Dwayne Wade though.

Lawson over holiday? Come on- lucky for your team it wasn't your call- unlucky for nuggets fans whose team should have used 1 more future pick to switch 18 and 16- wouldn't it have been a safe bet that philly wouldn't have taken james johnson if available? From a jealous nugs fan

GOBB
06-27-2009, 06:22 PM
Lawson over holiday? Come on- lucky for your team it wasn't your call- unlucky for nuggets fans whose team should have used 1 more future pick to switch 18 and 16- wouldn't it have been a safe bet that philly wouldn't have taken james johnson if available? From a jealous nugs fan

Holiday, Lawson and Teague were Sixers targets. James Johnson wasnt. I actually like the Lawson pick for Denver. Backup Chauncey Billups on a winner. Less pressure. Should fit in.

1~Gibson~1
06-27-2009, 08:38 PM
Dionte Christmas will be at the 76ers Summer League program thingy. He could be the undrafted steal of the draft :pimp:

Posterize246
06-27-2009, 10:18 PM
I hate Chad Ford, but he did give us an A for the draft. Only the Spurs got an A+ (DeJuan Blair, Jack McClinton, Nando de Colo all 2nd round).


I hope SixersFan76 just decided to take a vacation out of nowhere and that's why he hasn't been back. He was posting everyday here for a while, and now that he called out GOBB and called him a moron when it was really him, he hasn't been back. Suck it up. :violin:

Posterize246
06-27-2009, 11:01 PM
GOBB remember this thread?


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93447

"Darrell Arthur was the friggin pick man. I'm sorry." :no:

GOBB
06-28-2009, 05:41 AM
haha yeah.

ppierce34
06-28-2009, 11:37 AM
Holiday, Lawson and Teague were Sixers targets. James Johnson wasnt. I actually like the Lawson pick for Denver. Backup Chauncey Billups on a winner. Less pressure. Should fit in.

He can be groomed under Billups for the next couple years and be ready to run the offense. He'll allow them to push the pace more like Karl likes to do. That was a good trade for Denver.

Posterize246
07-06-2009, 11:54 PM
Eric Maynor had 9 points (4-9), 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, and 0 turnovers in 24 minutes today. Eh, I thought it was relevant.

GOBB
07-07-2009, 05:19 PM
Eric Maynor had 9 points (4-9), 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, and 0 turnovers in 24 minutes today. Eh, I thought it was relevant.

It very much is relevant. Always interesting to see the other guys Sixers had in mind fare. Not that I'm surprised by what Jrue or Eric did. One if young, green the other is pretty much more seasoned. Still, interesting.

Does Denver play too or later on? Wanna see what Ty Lawson does as well.

Posterize246
07-15-2009, 12:24 AM
Does Denver play too or later on? Wanna see what Ty Lawson does as well.

Ty Lawson 0-7 tonight, 3 assists, 4 turnovers in 29 minutes. Also 1 steal and 1 rebound.

this was his first summer league game

Posterize246
07-16-2009, 12:14 AM
Tonight for Lawson:

1-8 in 26 minutes
4 assists
2 turnovers


That's 1-15 in summer league. Ouch.

edit: just saw the 1 FG it was a dunk on a breakway

Posterize246
07-18-2009, 12:54 AM
Lawson finally breaks through...

26 points (11-16)
5 assists
5 rebounds
2 turnovers

GOBB
07-18-2009, 01:59 PM
Against who? Just curious.

Posterize246
07-18-2009, 03:08 PM
Against who? Just curious.
The good game I'm assuming it was Jerryd Bayless guarding him, who had 19 points on 8-17.

The 2 awful games he had he was guarded by Tyrese Rice from BC and George Hill the Spurs rookie from last year.