If Wade is a top 3-5 player, why did he lose to the Hawks?

[Atomic DOG]

Everyone on ISH seems to compare players based on how well their teams do (which i think is ridiculous) but it seems to be the norm here on ISH.

So if Wade is a top 5 player and short-list MVP candidate, how come he lost in the first round to a team whose best player is not even in the top 20???

The Hawks roster:
Mike Bibby
Joe Johnson
Marvin Wiliams
Josh Smith
Al Horford

Heat:
Mario Chalmers
Dwayne Wade (elite superstar)
Shawn Marion
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

I mean if Wade was an average player those would still be pretty similar rosters. But isn't Wade supposed to be an elite superstar? Hmm..


I ask because people at this site always say things like "duncan has 4 rings, lebron has 0 so no comparison" or "iverson > nash, because iverson at least got to the finals, nash didnt even make 1" or "if garnett wins another ring, will he be top 15?" as if players cant be judged on invididual merit but only how well their teams compare to other people's teams.

so i'm just curious what the justification is that Wade lost in the first round to the Atlanta Hawks when he's supposed arguably the best player in the league?

[NLZ]

Everyone on ISH seems to compare players based on how well their teams do (which i think is ridiculous) but it seems to be the norm here on ISH.

So if Wade is a top 5 player and short-list MVP candidate, how come he lost in the first round to a team whose best player is not even in the top 20???

The Hawks roster:
Mike Bibby
Joe Johnson
Marvin Wiliams
Josh Smith
Al Horford

Heat:
Mario Chalmers
Dwayne Wade (elite superstar)
Shawn Marion
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

I mean if Wade was an average player those would still be pretty similar rosters. But isn't Wade supposed to be an elite superstar? Hmm..


I ask because people at this site always say things like "duncan has 4 rings, lebron has 0 so no comparison" or "iverson > nash, because iverson at least got to the finals, nash didnt even make 1" or "if garnett wins another ring, will he be top 15?" as if players cant be judged on invididual merit but only how well their teams compare to other people's teams.

so i'm just curious what the justification is that Wade lost in the first round to the Atlanta Hawks when he's supposed arguably the best player in the league?
Shawn Marion is a Toronto Raptor.

[Brujesino]

you cant carry a team entirly by yourself

the hawks were just a better team the cast around wade isnt nearly as good as the other top players on the league

but for sure wade is a top 5 player

[Atomic DOG]

Shawn Marion is a Toronto Raptor.


oh yeah good catch, meant jemario moon

[Atomic DOG]

you cant carry a team entirly by yourself



exactly, which is why it annoys me when people make dumb oversimplifications like the ones i mentioned in my first post.

people need to stop acting like its a one man sport.

[Micku]

Match up problems?

Inconsistent and inexperience teammates?

O'Neal not playing in the last game possibly?

The Heat had it tough against the Hawks all year tho. The Hawks were the better team.


you cant carry a team entirly by yourself

the hawks were just a better team the cast around wade isnt nearly as good as the other top players on the league

but for sure wade is a top 5 player

Huh? Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But yeah, you can't carry a team by yourself.

[nbastatus]

Everyone on ISH seems to compare players based on how well their teams do (which i think is ridiculous) but it seems to be the norm here on ISH.

So if Wade is a top 5 player and short-list MVP candidate, how come he lost in the first round to a team whose best player is not even in the top 20???

The Hawks roster:
Mike Bibby
Joe Johnson
Marvin Wiliams
Josh Smith
Al Horford

Heat:
Mario Chalmers
Dwayne Wade (elite superstar)
Shawn Marion
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

I mean if Wade was an average player those would still be pretty similar rosters. But isn't Wade supposed to be an elite superstar? Hmm..


I ask because people at this site always say things like "duncan has 4 rings, lebron has 0 so no comparison" or "iverson > nash, because iverson at least got to the finals, nash didnt even make 1" or "if garnett wins another ring, will he be top 15?" as if players cant be judged on invididual merit but only how well their teams compare to other people's teams.

so i'm just curious what the justification is that Wade lost in the first round to the Atlanta Hawks when he's supposed arguably the best player in the league?
JJ is top 20.

[Brujesino]

Huh? Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But yeah, you can't carry a team by yourself.

i meant wades cast isnt as good as kobe,lebron and other top players in the league

is it still confusing or are you saying that wades cast is just as good as kobes and lebrons

[Micku]

i meant wades cast isnt as good as kobe,lebron and other top players in the league

is it still confusing or are you saying that wades cast is just as good as kobes and lebrons

I read it wrong. I get what you meant now. Sorry ^^;

[djutjud14]

wade is a top 3-5 player. he's the only reason why heat amazingly got into the playoff.

but when you're in the playoff, a team can't rely on 1 person on all 7 games per series.

wade is playing with 2 rookies who seemed to be really confused about their roles.

jermaine o'neal is not the great player as he once used to be.
on top of that, he has a rookie coach which has the same principle with mike brown. "give the ball to my superstar player, everyone else watch him drives/shoots."

what the heck do you expect ??

[GiveItToBurrito]

wade is a top 3-5 player. he's the only reason why heat amazingly got into the playoff.

but when you're in the playoff, a team can't rely on 1 person on all 7 games per series.

wade is playing with 2 rookies who seemed to be really confused about their roles.

jermaine o'neal is not the great player as he once used to be.
on top of that, he has a rookie coach which has the same principle with mike brown. "give the ball to my superstar player, everyone else watch him drives/shoots."

what the heck do you expect ??

This. Kobe and prime TMac lost in the first round a couple of times, too, when they weren't playing with a very good team, so I don't hold it against Wade. CP3 lost in the first round, too, and he was even on the wrong end of a 50+ point blowout, and it's not like he's any less elite now. Basketball's a very star-driven sport, but it's still a team game.

[LaughingOctopus]

Same reason that LeBron lost to the Magic. Basketball is a team sport.

[ronnymac]

JJ is top 20.
JJ is borderline top 10. and top 15 for sure.

[jrong]

Also, don't forget that he got hurt during that series. (And he was playing well below 100% for the last month of the season, in fact). The Heat were up 2 - 1, and then Wade's back flared up. They still only lost Game 4 by ten. I think they would have had a great chance to win that game and take a 3 - 1 lead if his health had held up.

And then I would have really liked to see that Cavs/ Heat series. I think the Heat would have provided a stiffer test than the flaccid effort put forth by the Hawks. (And that actually may have benefitted the Cavs by toughening them up in preparation for the next round against the Magic).

[Atomic DOG]

JJ is borderline top 10. and top 15 for sure.

yer kidding right?

[Toizumi]

The Hawks roster:
Mike Bibby
Joe Johnson
Marvin Wiliams
Josh Smith
Al Horford

Heat:
Mario Chalmers
Dwayne Wade (elite superstar)
Shawn Marion
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

I mean if Wade was an average player those would still be pretty similar rosters. But isn't Wade supposed to be an elite superstar? Hmm..




Mike Bibby > Mario Chalmers
Marvin Williams > Jamario Moon
Josh Smith > Udonis Haslem
Al Horford > Jermaine O'Neal

All of atlanta's starters are arguably better at this point of their careers. and I'm not even mentioning the bench players. Joe Johnson is a superstar too. The only reason this heat team made the playoffs and went 7 games against these hawks is Dwade. The rosters were pretty similar because of Dwade being a superstar!! Remember when kobe missed out on the playoffs a year after Shaq left? so to you he isnt an elite superstar? 1 man cant do it all

[chains5000]

He played agains Mike MVP Bibby.

[lukekarts]

I like Miami so if anything my post is gonna be biased towards them, but right now:

Bibby is better than Chamlers (Chalmers might become as good as Bibby, or a bit better, but right now he is inexperienced and inconsistent, and his high scoring nights are like Bibby's averages. The only thing he can do better right now is steal)

Williams is better than Jones - Jones airballed more than anyone on our roster last season, and he was playing in place of Moon who was injured. Either way, whilst Williams isn't great, he's better than those two.

Smith is better than Beasley/Haslem. Its not hard, Beasley is inconsistent and more undersized. Haslem is a worker but doesn't rebound any more than Smith and scores half the amount. Defensively Smith is not all-star but he's better than both at shot blocking.

Horford is as good as JO. JO had a good run in the playoffs, and is a better scorer than Horford. But he's barely fit, missed the last game, and cannot rebound well now he's lost his mobility. Horford is far more energetic.

So we've established the entire Hawks lineup outside of the shooting guard position is better than Miami's, without even considering the talent (or lack of) on the bench.

Everyone knows Wade is better than JJ, but what makes the matchup even harder is that Wade isn't that much better than JJ. JJ is a top 10 NBA shooting guard, maybe top 5, so the advantage Wade has isn't big enough to make the difference.

[globarticles]

Why does last season's Boston Celtics need 7 games to win against the Hawks when they only needed 6 games to win against Lakers? Does this mean last season's Hawk > last season Lakers?

Same principles apply.

[gpfanz]

So if Wade is a top 5 player and short-list MVP candidate, how come he lost in the first round to a team whose best player is not even in the top 20???


Just because he can only do so much :violin:

[AznTacoLover]

Wade is indeed a top 3-5 player. but he can only do that much his relys on him too much.. and his supporting cast, 2 rookies. and a washed up O'Neal ain't really helping him.

[phoenix18]

yer kidding right?
JJ is a great player. Puts up a lot of quiet points.

[dubeta]

Good question.

[hawksdogsbraves]

That was a good 47 win Hawks team that would win 53 the next year. For as poorly as those Joe Johnson/Josh Smith teams are remembered, we had a couple of pretty good teams.

JJ and J-Smoove were in their primes at that point, and we had a solid bench with Flip Murray as the 6th man. JJ was putting up 21/6/4, he was hands down a top 5 SG.

I remember going to one of the games that series at home and D-Wade absolutely ate us alive. I think he made 3 or 4 pull up 3's in a row at one point and just single handedly destroyed us.

[SouBeachTalents]

Good question.

Lmao, Wade has him so shook he's bringing up threads from SIX years ago. Rent free.

[OnFire]

lol hawks fans need to lay back and enjoy their 1 good season per decade (if that).

[Wade's Rings]

I remember going to one of the games that series at home and D-Wade absolutely ate us alive. I think he made 3 or 4 pull up 3's in a row at one point and just single handedly destroyed us.

That was Game 2.


Lmao, Wade has him so shook he's bringing up threads from SIX years ago. Rent free.

:applause:

[Lexington Steel]

Lmao, Wade has him so shook he's bringing up threads from SIX years ago. Rent free.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Wade has the little boy on a LEASH.