Steve Smith: "Kobe most fundamental player ever"

[andgar923]

Apparently he said he was more fundamental than MJ.

I read this on another board, apparently he was on tv and that's what went down.

Comments?

[Heilige]

Apparently he said he was more fundamental than MJ.

I read this on another board, apparently he was on tv and that's what went down.

Comments?



Do you have links to it?

[Bigsmoke]

people always dickride players who are in the Finals

[Bush4Ever]

:roll:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NMUZfRr71Yk/SXK79qwUD7I/AAAAAAAAC4M/MBwNADmoNe4/s400/larry_bird_245x325.jpg

[KobeRules24]

he just said it on nba tv, steve smith played against jordan in his prime so he should know what he's talking about.

[KoolKat]

No, he isn't more fundamental than the likes of MJ, Bird and Duncan.

Everyone seems to overrate or underrate (hate) Kobe, i wonder if there is a middle to that.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Apparently he said he was more fundamental than MJ.

I read this on another board, apparently he was on tv and that's what went down.

Comments?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1997/yearinreview/magazine/jordantaylor.html

[Killer_Instinct]

Last night on SportsCenter one of the analysts said Kobe is the best mid range shooter in NBA history. Think it was ?Tim Legler? A lot of finites are coming out now.

[KobeRules24]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1997/yearinreview/magazine/jordantaylor.html

steve smith played against both, kobe and jordan so he has the right to share his opinion...sorry you didn't like it

[oh the horror]

Look, I dig Kobe....but really?


More fundamental than Jordan? I just do not agree with that.

[RocketGreatness]

Coming from Steve Smith? It doesn't really matter much.

Steve Smith is one of the pure definitions of a retarded band-wagoning flip flopper. He can be smart at times, but he's for sure a bandwagoner.

[andgar923]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1997/yearinreview/magazine/jordantaylor.html

That's nice and all, but this was before he played Kobe.

Now... is there quotes by others that refute this?

I remember Magic and West saying MJ was the most fundamental player ever. And this wasn't too long ago.

So an article of Smith getting torched really doesn't prove anything.

[D-Rose]

Last night on SportsCenter one of the analysts said Kobe is the best mid range shooter in NBA history. Think it was ?Tim Legler? A lot of finites are coming out now.
He said mid-range contested jump shooter.

[JM720]

Yeah he said it on NBATV, saw it like 20-25 mins ago

[BlackMamba24]

Steve Smith telling us like it is. :applause:
He'd make a brilliant analyst.

[Foster5k]

They just giving Kobe props, even if it's not 100% fact.

The fact that, when discussing Kobe Bryant the world greatest is even mentioned so much, by different players, shows what kind of impact he has had on the league.

Kobe haters hate everything Kobe related. They will post a wall of stats. This and that. However, the guy is a great player. People will always use greatest and best, when talking about Kobe. It may not be 100% true, but it is just the result, of many, many things Kobe has done and how he plays.

[phoenix18]

Its not true anyways.

[Indian guy]

Hardly a stretch to say something like that. And Kobe IS the greatest contested jump shooter.

[Killer_Instinct]

He said mid-range contested jump shooter.


Could have sworn he said something along the lines of "Kobe lives between 12-19 foot jumpers. He's made his living better from that distance better than anyone in history".

Doesn't matter. Still a finite.

[andgar923]

Here's some more:

Steve Smith: Kobe is the most fundamentally sound player in nba history,

More comments like this in past few weeks.

John Lucas: Kobe is the most fundamentally sound ever.
Marc Jackson: Kobe the is the most fundamentally sound player of all time
JVG: Kobe is the greatest Lakers player of all time
Tim Legler: Top to bottom probably the most skilled player that the NBA has ever seen.

[Clifton]

Does the most fundamental player ever also have to be one of the best players ever?

I mean really what are the odds those two match up? Can't it be like Brandon Bass or something? If someone asked me I would answer Brandon Bass. Doesn't get more textbook than that guy. Anyone trying to teach a guy how to play forward or center should tell em, just watch Brandon Bass as much as you possibly can and play exactly like that.

As far as perimeter guys go, I haven't thought about it too much but I'll say Rip Hamilton for now. I'm pretty sure pulling up from 22 feet while 2 guys are on you is not considered fundamental or I would give it to Kobe. As far as just his moves go, if you ignore when he uses them, then a case could be made. His footwork and his set of moves are certainly the best in the league without question. And his shot is great too. It's just hard for me to call a guy fundamental when a lot of his effectiveness depends on catching fire. If you play disciplined defense on Kobe, you can reduce him to just an all-star 80% of the time. Shane Battier's shown that. He has neither the patience, nor the superhuman speed/quickness/strength to get whatever he wants against a disciplined defense; all he can do is take an uncomfortable jumpshot and maybe it will go in.

[Heilige]

Hardly a stretch to say something like that. And Kobe IS the greatest contested jump shooter.



Why isn't it a stretch to say something like that?

[Roundball_Rock]

steve smith played against both, kobe and jordan so he has the right to share his opinion...sorry you didn't like it

Exactly. Smith is more qualified than anyone here to give his opinion on this matter.

[32jazz]

Coming from Steve Smith? It doesn't really matter much.

Steve Smith is one of the pure definitions of a retarded band-wagoning flip flopper. He can be smart at times, but he's for sure a bandwagoner.


Even a damn good NBA player like Steve Smith will get trashed & called a Kobe homer/bandwagoner on the ISH when/if he decides to say something complimentary about Kobe.:roll: Pretty arrogant coming from guys posting on a mesaage board as opposed to a very damn good ex NBA player & defensive player.

Steve Smith isn't God so his word isn't final ,but it does show how disturbed the Kobe hate(rs) is when they attack an ex player who has played against both.:confusedshrug:

Off topic, but another ex player ,Brendan Haywood of the Wizards,(guest on ESPN radio regularly) will make an excellent , excellent analyst once he retires. The guy is thoughtful,articulate & his sports interest/knowledge goes beyond the NBA.

I have become a big Haywood fan this post season.

[TryToBeUnbias]

Here's some more:

Steve Smith: Kobe is the most fundamentally sound player in nba history,

More comments like this in past few weeks.

John Lucas: Kobe is the most fundamentally sound ever.
Marc Jackson: Kobe the is the most fundamentally sound player of all time
JVG: Kobe is the greatest Lakers player of all time
Tim Legler: Top to bottom probably the most skilled player that the NBA has ever seen.

i think JVG refuted that as soon as he realized what he said

[phoenix18]

Does the most fundamental player ever also have to be one of the best players ever?

I mean really what are the odds those two match up? Can't it be like Brandon Bass or something? If someone asked me I would answer Brandon Bass. Doesn't get more textbook than that guy. Anyone trying to teach a guy how to play forward or center should tell em, just watch Brandon Bass as much as you possibly can and play exactly like that.

As far as perimeter guys go, I haven't thought about it too much but I'll say Rip Hamilton for now. I'm pretty sure pulling up from 22 feet while 2 guys are on you is not considered fundamental or I would give it to Kobe. As far as just his moves go, if you ignore when he uses them, then a case could be made. His footwork and his set of moves are certainly the best in the league without question. And his shot is great too. It's just hard for me to call a guy fundamental when a lot of his effectiveness depends on catching fire. If you play disciplined defense on Kobe, you can reduce him to just an all-star 80% of the time. Shane Battier's shown that. He has neither the patience, nor the superhuman speed/quickness/strength to get whatever he wants against a disciplined defense; all he can do is take an uncomfortable jumpshot and maybe it will go in.
:applause: Well said.

[Bodhi]

That's nice and all, but this was before he played Kobe.

Now... is there quotes by others that refute this?

I remember Magic and West saying MJ was the most fundamental player ever. And this wasn't too long ago.

So an article of Smith getting torched really doesn't prove anything.

I'm very surprised that Magic would choose Jordan over Bird.

[andgar923]

Even a damn good NBA player like Steve Smith will get trashed & called a Kobe homer/bandwagoner on the ISH when/if he decides to say something complimentary about Kobe.:roll: Pretty arrogant coming from guys posting on a mesaage board as opposed to a very damn good ex NBA player & defensive player.

Steve Smith isn't God so his word isn't final ,but it does show how disturbed the Kobe hate(rs) is when they attack an ex player who has played against both.:confusedshrug:

Off topic, but another ex player ,Brendan Haywood of the Wizards,(guest on ESPN radio regularly) will make an excellent , excellent analyst once he retires. The guy is thoughtful,articulate & his sports interest/knowledge goes beyond the NBA.

I have become a big Haywood fan this post season.

I don't know if it has to do with hating Kobe, as it does with the fact that he stated:

Kobe is the most fundamental player OF ALL TIME

Does the term "all time" say... overreacting?

Its not hate because even Kobe fans have stated how ridiculous that statement is.

Over Bird? Stockton? Nash? West? or a plethora of other old school cats? or even international players where fundamentals are drilled into their heads?

Statements like that is what hurts Kobe imo, because its exaggerations that are borderline silly. And more often than not, the people that say exaggrated comments end up taking them back, once they realize how silly they were.

[boozehound]

people always dickride players who are in the Finals
this.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Here's some more:

Steve Smith: Kobe is the most fundamentally sound player in nba history,

More comments like this in past few weeks.

John Lucas: Kobe is the most fundamentally sound ever.
Marc Jackson: Kobe the is the most fundamentally sound player of all time
JVG: Kobe is the greatest Lakers player of all time
Tim Legler: Top to bottom probably the most skilled player that the NBA has ever seen.
also heard magic johnson say kobe is larry birds favorite player in the nba rite now. kobe is on top of the world rite now and the haters are hatttttttttttttting it!

[cotdt]

You can't really compare Tim Duncan to Kobe, who runs the teams' offensive, has to pass and create plays. Kobe has high basketball IQ and really mixes things up for the other team. He's great at running the pick and roll with Gasol. He knows how to consistently draw double teams, and his defense is great. Defense was something that Magic Johnson lacked, otherwise Magic would have been the GOAT.

Kobe has the best footwork in the game, a wicked jumpshot, and knows when to take over games or defer to teammates.

[Mor'Fiyah]

Does the most fundamental player ever also have to be one of the best players ever?

I mean really what are the odds those two match up? Can't it be like Brandon Bass or something? If someone asked me I would answer Brandon Bass. Doesn't get more textbook than that guy. Anyone trying to teach a guy how to play forward or center should tell em, just watch Brandon Bass as much as you possibly can and play exactly like that.

As far as perimeter guys go, I haven't thought about it too much but I'll say Rip Hamilton for now. I'm pretty sure pulling up from 22 feet while 2 guys are on you is not considered fundamental or I would give it to Kobe. As far as just his moves go, if you ignore when he uses them, then a case could be made. His footwork and his set of moves are certainly the best in the league without question. And his shot is great too. It's just hard for me to call a guy fundamental when a lot of his effectiveness depends on catching fire. If you play disciplined defense on Kobe, you can reduce him to just an all-star 80% of the time. Shane Battier's shown that. He has neither the patience, nor the superhuman speed/quickness/strength to get whatever he wants against a disciplined defense; all he can do is take an uncomfortable jumpshot and maybe it will go in.


Yet Shane Battier has been burned by Kobe more often than not, including during the Rockets-Lakers series.

[juju151111]

Just like people was dickriding Wade,Shaqa,MJ in the finals too. It happens all the damn time. LOL Also Smith seems like the guy who lives in the moment and forgets quick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwSpGOH8X4 LOL Mj toys with the miami heat

[04mzwach]

Kobe love is good for the NBA in general. That is what it's all about.

Same thing goes for Lebron. They are setting him up for the "even better" future.

[32jazz]

I don't know if it has to do with hating Kobe, as it does with the fact that he stated:

Kobe is the most fundamental player OF ALL TIME

Does the term "all time" say... overreacting?

Its not hate because even Kobe fans have stated how ridiculous that statement is.

Over Bird? Stockton? Nash? West? or a plethora of other old school cats? or even international players where fundamentals are drilled into their heads?

Statements like that is what hurts Kobe imo, because its exaggerations that are borderline silly. And more often than not, the people that say exaggrated comments end up taking them back, once they realize how silly they were.

It's just one man's opinion Andgar:confusedshrug: Just for Steve Smith's opinion, which is more credible than anyone on the ISH, the guy gets trashed /mocked .

'Kobe fans' think it is ridiculous? Who the F**k are they:confusedshrug: This man was an all star NBA player & was respected for his defense, but I should take what 'kobe Fans' think over him? How may people on the ISh have guarded/studied the number of great swingmen this guy has ?

Again Smith doesn't have the final word on anything ,but I am more inclined to listen to someone who has actually guarded these people than those on the Net.

If Kobe is so ' allegedly' disliked around the League by other Players(untrue), exactly what agenda could they have by expressing his brilliance as a player?

People really need to let the past go & enjoy not just Kobe ,but Lebron/Wade/Roy/Howard,etc... & really stop harping on the past.

It's subjective. One man's opinion.

[Younggrease]

I don't know if it has to do with hating Kobe, as it does with the fact that he stated:

Kobe is the most fundamental player OF ALL TIME

Does the term "all time" say... overreacting?

Its not hate because even Kobe fans have stated how ridiculous that statement is.

Over Bird? Stockton? Nash? West? or a plethora of other old school cats? or even international players where fundamentals are drilled into their heads?

Statements like that is what hurts Kobe imo, because its exaggerations that are borderline silly. And more often than not, the people that say exaggrated comments end up taking them back, once they realize how silly they were.

Kobe is more fundamentally sound then Stockton...Stockton couldnt do certain fundamentals on the court like dribble with his left. His pull up game wasnt as precise as Kobe either, he body movements werent as efficient.

[97 bulls]

i dont get the notion that because a guy played against a player he has a better advantage. in fact coming from a guy that has played in organized athletics. after every game we would watch clips of what we did. abd to be honest, the camera shows so many things. in the nfl, after a series you see both sides looking at photos of whats going on out there. so, in my opinion, the oly person that cant really comment on a subject is the person that never witnessed it.

[97 bulls]

It's just one man's opinion Andgar:confusedshrug: Just for Steve Smith's opinion, which is more credible than anyone on the ISH, the guy gets trashed /mocked .

'Kobe fans' think it is ridiculous? Who the F**k are they:confusedshrug: This man was an all star NBA player & was respected for his defense, but I should take what 'kobe Fans' think over him? How may people on the ISh have guarded/studied the number of great swingmen this guy has ?

Again Smith doesn't have the final word on anything ,but I am more inclined to listen to someone who has actually guarded these people than those on the Net.

If Kobe is so ' allegedly' disliked around the League by other Players(untrue), exactly what agenda could they have by expressing his brilliance as a player?

People really need to let the past go & enjoy not just Kobe ,but Lebron/Wade/Roy/Howard,etc... & really stop harping on the past.

It's subjective. One man's opinion.
i agree with people letting the past go. but the fact is that in this instance like others who brings this stuff up? kobe fans. and theyre the ones that bring up the "ever" or "history" theories. and 9 times out of 10 its directed at jordan. its never wilt, or kareem, maybe magic every so often.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

i dont get the notion that because a guy played against a player he has a better advantage. in fact coming from a guy that has played in organized athletics. after every game we would watch clips of what we did. abd to be honest, the camera shows so many things. in the nfl, after a series you see both sides looking at photos of whats going on out there. so, in my opinion, the oly person that cant really comment on a subject is the person that never witnessed it.

what?

[The Logo]

Kobe IS the most fundamental player in the league. Steve Smith knows what he's talking about. Only biased ISH posters can't see that.

[phoenix18]

Kobe IS the most fundamental player in the league. Steve Smith knows what he's talking about. Only biased ISH posters can't see that.
The guy with barely any arch on his shot is the most fundamental guy in the league. Whoa!!

[andgar923]

Kobe IS the most fundamental player in the league. Steve Smith knows what he's talking about. Only biased ISH posters can't see that.

He didn't say league, he said ALL TIME.

[D-Rose]

The guy with barely any arch on his shot is the most fundamental guy in the league. Whoa!
Crazy fadeaway over LeBron.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTH2PqseGas&feature=related)

take that back?:eek:

[lbj23clutch]

some laker fans knowledge of the game make you go :banghead: lmao kobe is not the most fundamentally sound ever, MJ, bird, duncan, hakeem were more fundamentally sound players, idiots. kobe is one of the top fundamentally sound players today but to call him the most fundamentally sound is just ridiculous.

[97 bulls]

what?
ok ill rephrase since your slow. you see more on film than in person. which is why all sports go to film to see who how what etc. to say smith has a better advantage over someone watching film of the game isnt true. for instance, what if smith says that ai was stronger than shaq. i guess hes right cuz he played against both of them. that asinine in my opinion. i saw both play its not true.

[eliteballer]

Kobe is maybe the most fundamentally SKILLED player in history. You can really make that argument. There's nothing he can't do from a skill standpoint. He's a more skilled dribbler and shooter than Jordan for example. Even Phil said Kobe is more skilled. Kobe is the most skilled player in the most advanced era of basketball. Think about it.

[phoenix18]

Crazy fadeaway over LeBron.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTH2PqseGas&feature=related)

take that back?:eek:
One shot?

[RoseCity07]

Kobe has great fundamentals but not the best ever. If you take fade aways, and contested shots, that isn't fundamentally sound. Look at Tim Duncan. He doesn't take bad shots unless he has to.

Saying someone has the best fundamentals ever is kind of silly anyway. How do you judge that? A guard is not likely to show the same fundamentals a center shows.

[NBASTATMAN]

Last night on SportsCenter one of the analysts said Kobe is the best mid range shooter in NBA history. Think it was ?Tim Legler? A lot of finites are coming out now.


Kind of like annointing Lebron the greatest ever before he has won anything....:lol .. Mj and kobe are both two great midrange shooters..

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Man, people really need to stop saying stupid crap like this just because a player is playing well.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe is maybe the most fundamentally SKILLED player in history. You can really make that argument. There's nothing he can't do from a skill standpoint. He's a more skilled dribbler and shooter than Jordan for example. Even Phil said Kobe is more skilled. Kobe is the most skilled player in the most advanced era of basketball. Think about it.

Better dribbler? Yes Better shooter? NO.. Even Tex Winter. a big fan of kobe, has stated that he doesn't think Kobe is as good a shooter as MJ in MJ's second title run.. Kobe is the most skilled athletic player.. I don't think he is the most skilled player..

[NBASTATMAN]

Man, people really need to stop saying stupid crap like this just because a player is playing well.


I wonder what they wrote after the 2008 finals.... This happens all the time.. Keeping your job as a tv commentator makes you say some dumb things...

[Sir Charles]

Pure and Skill Shooting Wise 1 on 1 Probably`props to him (i love his style of shooting btw)..:applause:

But with soft rules of today its too easy to even tell..:confusedshrug:

Anyhow..There ARE MORE FUNDAMENTALS AND SKILLS TO THE GAME...

"Than Having a Silky Smooth 1 on 1 Shooting Touch"

But ofcourse...All These Other, Skills, Fundamentals and Forms of Impact are Never Mentioned, Disliked or Avoided by Kobe Fans because they think the ONLY POSITION IN BASKETBALL...is SG! and The Way Bryan`t Plays it!. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO IMPACT!: which not even close THE MANY WAYS A PLAYER CAN DOMINATE THE GAME AND IMPACT THE GAME

Example Jordan`s IMPACT AND DOMINATINON IN MOST IF NTO ALL AREAS OF THE GAME

:cheers:

[Floppy]

Seriously I don't give a **** on the opinions of former players who are still involved with the nba. They seem to do anything to secure their jobs.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe is more fundamentally sound then Stockton...Stockton couldnt do certain fundamentals on the court like dribble with his left. His pull up game wasnt as precise as Kobe either, he body movements werent as efficient.

Wow. :oldlol: Are you actually suggesting that John Stockton, one of the 5 greatest PG's ever, has a less effective/fundamental left hand dribble than Kobe?

Stockton couldn't dribble with his left, he says. :oldlol: Guess it was all an illusion all those years...

Kobe is fundamentally sound in terms of being ABLE to execute certain moves/feints etc., but he's not fundamentally sound in terms of when to employ them and ease/efficiency of execution. Jordan and Bird were the gold standards there imo.

[Carbine]

Skills & fundamentals are basically the same to me... being able to come off a screen and planting the proper foot and raising up in one motion is a skill as much as it is a fundamental. Being able to play with you back to the basket has as much to do with your skill level as it does your fundamental level.

With that said, Kobe is easily one of the best fundamentally sound players ever. Phil was quoted as saying he was more skilled than Jordan was, which is a huge compliment considering Phil has been around both players far longer than pretty much anyone on the basketball court.

[GOBB]

Doesnt anyone get sick and tired of talkin about Kobe Bryant? Are you guys incapable of talkin about other talents in the NBA? Why not discuss some young players like OJ Mayo, Kevin Durant, Thaddeus Young, Wilson Chandler.

First page is Kobe related for the most part. I sift thru 3 friggin pages for good threads and find nothing. Like really, at what point do you as fans pause and say there is more to this game called basketball then Kobe and the handful of players repeatedly talked about. Ridiculous.

[nbastatus]

kind of agree with him.

[blacknapalm]

he obviously hasn't seen AI who built his game on fundamentals and became flashy in his 30s.

[Clifton]

Kobe is maybe the most fundamentally SKILLED player in history. You can really make that argument. There's nothing he can't do from a skill standpoint. He's a more skilled dribbler and shooter than Jordan for example. Even Phil said Kobe is more skilled. Kobe is the most skilled player in the most advanced era of basketball. Think about it.


Kobe is fundamentally sound in terms of being ABLE to execute certain moves/feints etc., but he's not fundamentally sound in terms of when to employ them and ease/efficiency of execution. Jordan and Bird were the gold standards there imo.

Two really good posts.

[juju151111]

MJ DID EVERYTHING KOBE DID IN GM 1 IN ALMOST EVERY GM FROM 96-8 i DON'T SEE WHATS SO SPECIAL SERIOUSLY. I wasn't going to comment because i think every fan should get hype for their favorite players, ut now you guys want to ring Mj in it. ALl those post up spin left,fakes etc.. MJ did when he passed his prime on a regular basis easy. Vishal evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gvzAUkyaU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGX_HXlTV-Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTMoqRUjJLo&feature=related
LMFAO look at the fakes,the spins, etc... How is Kobe more fundamental then him again or is it that you guys are just talking in the moment. Stay off the crack guys. MJ decided to all those moves kobe did yesterday when he was 33 years old. he worked in the post

[Eldrunko247]

steve smith played against both, kobe and jordan so he has the right to share his opinion...sorry you didn't like it
sometimes kobe lacks the "mental" in "fundamental". kobe is a very skilled but he can be pretty inconsistent. just look at the differences in per between kobe and jordan.

[raptorfan_dr07]

sometimes kobe lacks the "mental" in "fundamental". kobe is a very skilled but he can be pretty inconsistent.

Bingo! We have a winner! :cheers:

[marcus_v3]

Saw this on NBA TV a while ago.

Kinda agree but not much. Fundamentals wise, if kobe was a 10 then MJ's probably a 9.5 or some **** like that.

But of course you also have to look at it this way as well. MJ was a better athlete than Kobe. And if you think about it, there are probably 20-30 guys who possess more natural athleticism in the league RIGHT NOW than Kobe. And even in his prime I have never (as in ever) thought of Kobe as an athletic freak of nature and didn't even rank him as a top 10 even at his physical peak (w/c I believe was back when he was 25-28 yrs. old). But what he lacks in natural gifts, he makes up for it in funadamentals and understanding of the game which he had even as early as his mid 20's which is quite a rarity in this league since guys often rely mostly on their physical gifts until they're 29-30+ where they then have to rely on their experience and all the knowledge that they have gathered throughout their career if they want to keep competing at a high level.

So let's look at it like this.

Kobe - 10 fundamentals; probably a 7 in natural gifts

MJ - 9.5 fundamentals; 9 natural gifts

Lebron - 5 fundamentals or maybe even lower; 12 on physical gifts (no that's not a typo, I just think that a guy like LBJ who's an athletic freak of nature comes about once every decade or so)

Ps: just so you know, the reason why I put LBj in the comparison was to show both extremes of the spectrum and not to make this into a (Kobe vs LeBron) vs MJ thread coz God knows we already have to many of that **** right here on ISH.

[DonDadda59]

sometimes kobe lacks the "mental" in "fundamental". kobe is a very skilled but he can be pretty inconsistent. just look at the differences in per between kobe and jordan.

Exactly :applause:

Call me a 'hater' or whatever rolls off your tongue but shouldn't the most fundamental player ever be able to shoot at least 47% in one season(lucky # 13 and counting), lead the league in efficiency, play great consistently? For every 16-24 performance Kobe has 2 8-22 shooting nights during a given stretch.

In my view, Larry Bird is the gold standard as far as fundamentals go. Tim Duncan is this generation's model, the nickname isn't a fluke.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Well I was watching NBA TV just right now and yes, I heard Steve Smith say this. Seeing how people can often take things out of context, I wasn't sure what he really said. But yes, these words came out of his mouth. He literally said Michael Jordan is below Kobe Bryant in terms of fundamentals and it's Kobe's footwork that really separates them :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :banghead:

[Abraham Lincoln]

Well I was watching NBA TV just right now and yes, I heard Steve Smith say this. Seeing how people can often take things out of context, I wasn't sure what he really said. But yes, these words came out of his mouth. He literally said Michael Jordan is below Kobe Bryant in terms of fundamentals and it's Kobe's footwork that really separates them :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :banghead:

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/CMAG/938-022~Marijuana-Posters.jpg

[raptorfan_dr07]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/CMAG/938-022~Marijuana-Posters.jpg

No kidding. Steve Smith just went waaayyyyy too far with this one.

[Younggrease]

Wow. :oldlol: Are you actually suggesting that John Stockton, one of the 5 greatest PG's ever, has a less effective/fundamental left hand dribble than Kobe?

Stockton couldn't dribble with his left, he says. :oldlol: Guess it was all an illusion all those years...

Kobe is fundamentally sound in terms of being ABLE to execute certain moves/feints etc., but he's not fundamentally sound in terms of when to employ them and ease/efficiency of execution. Jordan and Bird were the gold standards there imo.

or maybe lack of observational skills...go find me a dribble of Stockton doing any significant dribbling with his left. Me and my pops used to laugh when we watched his games

[Brunch@Five]

Larry Bird is easily the most fundamental/skilled player of all time. Better shooter, passer and rebounder than both MJ and Kobe. Tied for highest BBall IQ of all time with Magic and MJ. Best post up player of the bunch.

Bird with the athleticism of a Kobe Bryant would be the GOAT, no question

[Manute for Ever!]

Kobe is more fundamentally sound then Stockton...Stockton couldnt do certain fundamentals on the court like dribble with his left. His pull up game wasnt as precise as Kobe either, he body movements werent as efficient.

If you do a Google Image search, in nearly every photo of him he is dribbling with his left. These are just off the first page:

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/146/6937~John-Stockton-Posters.jpg

http://images.wikia.com/openserving/sports/images/9/93/John_stockton-arton33443-240x290.jpg

http://www.jazzbots.com/web/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/image_cropped-12.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.queersighted.com/media/2007/05/john-stockton-300b0518.jpg

http://www.jibsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/john-stockton.jpg

[slevin6zer0]

Doesnt anyone get sick and tired of talkin about Kobe Bryant? Are you guys incapable of talkin about other talents in the NBA? Why not discuss some young players like OJ Mayo, Kevin Durant, Thaddeus Young, Wilson Chandler.

First page is Kobe related for the most part. I sift thru 3 friggin pages for good threads and find nothing. Like really, at what point do you as fans pause and say there is more to this game called basketball then Kobe and the handful of players repeatedly talked about. Ridiculous.

Kobe had a ridiculous game 1 in the NBA FINALS! Why the **** would anyone be wondering about Tyson Chandler when the superstar of the league is going off and showing why he's so high on the GOAT LIST?

Quit the whole holier than thou act you ****ing tool. And btw, nice way to bump a ''useless thread.''

[Eldrunko247]

Kobe had a ridiculous game 1 in the NBA FINALS! Why the **** would anyone be wondering about Tyson Chandler when the superstar of the league is going off and showing why he's so high on the GOAT LIST?

Quit the whole holier than thou act you ****ing tool. And btw, nice way to bump a ''useless thread.''
Good post. Repped for telling Gobb to go eat his own feces and and having a Fedor avatar. :rockon:

[bruceblitz]

Best fundamentals my ass. He's the most over-rated athlete of all times, in any sport.

After scoring his 81 points against the last ranked defense in the NBA at the time, the Toronto Raptors, the media and Kobe apostles prop him up as the #1 scorer of all time.

Kobe averages 35 points per game for a season, something that's been done before, and Kobe did it with a sub-par shooting percentage, shot jacking the entire way...but he gets Jordan comparisons for it.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_yearly.html

Kobe's shot selection isn't even top 100 of all time, he takes real stupid shots every single game, carrys the ball, and forces his offense, still, to this day, but idiots are actually trying to make a case that a kamikaze type player is "fundamental" and gawd forbid the most fundamental of all time. Give me an everloving break.

Kobe played alright against Denver, but now people are claiming this is one of the best playoff runs of all time by Kobe Bryant, did you forget how he performed in rounds 1-2?
game 1 vs utah 9-17
game 2 vs utah 8-17
game 3 vs utah 5-24
game 4 vs utah 16-24
game 5 vs utah 10-21

game 1 vs houston 14-31
game 2 vs houston 16-27
game 3 vs houston 11-28
game 4 vs houston 7-17
game 5 vs houston 10-19
game 6 vs houston 11-27
game 7 vs houston 4-12

game 1 vs denver 13-28
game 2 vs denver 10-20
game 3 vs denver 12-24
game 4 vs denver 10-26
game 5 vs denver 6-13
game 6 vs denver 12-20

game 1 vs orlando 16-34

What a rollercoaster of performances!

Hardly consistent.

How about the Jordan vs Kobe breakdown?

Jordan----------vs---Kobe-----
10 scoring titles vs 2 scoring titles
6 finals MVP's vs 0 finals MVP's
5 league MVP's vs 1 league MVP
30.12ppg car vs 25.1ppg car
33.45ppg playoffs car vs 24.5ppg car
48.7%fg playoffs vs 44.7%fg playoffs
49.6%fg reg season vs 45.5%fg reg season
8 seasons over 30ppg vs 2 seasons over 30ppg
10 seasons over 48%fg vs 0 seasons over 48%fg
6 seasons over 50%fg vs 0 seasons over 50%fg
4 seasons over 52%fg vs 0 seasons over 52%fg
1 season of 30+ 8 and 8 vs 0 seasons of 30+ 8 and 8
3 seasons of 30+ 6+ 6+ vs 0 seasons of 30+ 6+ 6+
1 defensive player of the year award vs 0 defensive player of the year awards

Kobe's led the league in shot attempts for 3 out of the last 4 years, and only has 2 scoring titles to show for it. If I gotta hear one more time that this guy is so dangerous as a scorer I'm gonna throw up. He's a great scorer but this isn't a marvel comic book.

If Kobe's so fawking great why didn't he ever lead this list right here for one season?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_yearly.html
Season-- Lg--- Player----- PER
2008-09 NBA LeBron James 31.67
2007-08 NBA LeBron James 29.14
2006-07 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 27.59
2005-06 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 28.06
2004-05 NBA Kevin Garnett 28.20
2003-04 NBA Kevin Garnett 29.44
2002-03 NBA Tracy McGrady 30.27
2001-02 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 29.68
2000-01 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.23
1999-00 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.65
1998-99 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.55
1997-98 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 28.79
1996-97 NBA Karl Malone 28.90
1995-96 NBA David Robinson* 29.41
1994-95 NBA David Robinson* 29.13
1993-94 NBA David Robinson* 30.66
1992-93 NBA Michael Jordan* 29.70
1991-92 NBA Michael Jordan* 27.75
1990-91 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.63
1989-90 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.19
1988-89 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.14
1987-88 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.71
1986-87 NBA Michael Jordan* 29.78
1985-86 NBA Larry Bird* 25.61
1984-85 NBA Larry Bird* 26.54
1983-84 NBA Adrian Dantley* 24.64
1982-83 NBA Moses Malone* 25.12
1981-82 NBA Moses Malone* 26.77
1980-81 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 25.48
1979-80 NBA Julius Erving* 25.36
1978-79 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 25.47
1977-78 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 29.22
1976-77 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.80
1975-76 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.21
ABA Julius Erving* 28.68
1974-75 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 26.36
ABA Julius Erving* 26.18
1973-74 NBA Bob McAdoo* 24.65
ABA Julius Erving* 25.69
1972-73 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 28.45
ABA Julius Erving* 27.66
1971-72 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 29.94
ABA Artis Gilmore 26.56
1970-71 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 28.95
ABA Zelmo Beaty 25.22
1969-70 NBA Jerry West* 24.64
ABA Spencer Haywood 28.02
1968-69 NBA Jerry West* 22.32
ABA Jimmy Jones 24.65
1967-68 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 24.71
ABA Connie Hawkins* 28.78
1966-67 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 26.51
1965-66 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 28.26
1964-65 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 28.62
1963-64 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 31.64
1962-63 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 31.84
1961-62 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 31.76
1960-61 NBA Elgin Baylor* 28.24
1959-60 NBA Wilt Chamberlain* 28.04
1958-59 NBA Bob Pettit* 28.19
1957-58 NBA Bob Pettit* 26.26
1956-57 NBA Bob Pettit* 28.23
1955-56 NBA Bob Pettit* 27.34
1954-55 NBA Neil Johnston* 25.50
1953-54 NBA George Mikan* 28.54
1952-53 NBA George Mikan* 28.39
1951-52 NBA George Mikan* 26.26

Oh I know Kobe apostles, those are just "useless stats". Calling stats useless when putting perspective on their rankings is highly laughable.

How soon do people forget how Kobe performed last year in the Finals, don't they? He has one single solitary good game so far in the Finals this year and he's gained about 3 billion pounds on his ball sack from everyone hopping on the Kobe mania bandwagon.

This hype around Kobe Bryant is what I absolutely f'ing hate. It makes me want to quit watching basketball.

Kobe 97 playoffs shot 38%
Kobe 98 playoffs shot 40%
Kobe 99 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 00 playoffs shot 44%
Kobe 01 playoffs shot 47%
Kobe 02 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 03 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 04 playoffs shot 41%
Kobe 05 DNP in playoffs, missed playoffs without Shaq
Kobe 06 playoffs shot 49%
Kobe 07 playoffs shot 46%
Kobe 08 playoffs shot 48%
Kobe 09 playoffs shooting 46%

Playoff production:
Shaq 97 27ppg 61%fg 10.6reb 3.2ast
Shaq 98 30.5ppg 50%fg 10.2reb 2.9ast
Shaq 99 26.6ppg 47%fg 11.6reb 2.3ast
Shaq 00 30.7ppg 46%fg 15.4reb 3.1ast
Shaq 01 30.4ppg 53%fg 15.4reb 3.2ast
Shaq 02 28.5ppg 65%fg 12.6reb 2.8ast
Shaq 03 27ppg 62%fg 14.8reb 3.7ast
In 2004 Kobe started to freeze Shaq out of the offense, a big reason why he left:
Shaq 04 21.5ppg 43%fg 13.2reb 2.5ast

How can such a great shooter/great scorer not have one single mother crapping playoff run over 50% shooting? Not one! Not to mention 7 playoff runs UNDER 45% shooting!

The Kobe-mania is driving me crazy! Sure he's great, yes the Lakers are playing great, but gawd damn this is getting ridiculous!

Kobe has played great in one out of 5 NBA finals appearances before this year and you clowns think that Kobe performing good in this years finals is an auto-leap frog into the top 10 of all time list? I don't think so!

NBA Finals production:
1999-2000 vs Indiana Pacers
Kobe 15ppg 4rpg 4apg 36.6%FG
Shaq 38ppg 16rpg 2apg 61%FG

2000-2001 vs Philadelphia
Kobe 24ppg 7rpg 5apg 41.5%FG
Shaq 33ppg 15rpg 4apg 57%FG

2001-2002 vs New Jersey Nets
Kobe 26ppg 5rpg 5apg 51%FG
Shaq 36ppg 12rpg 3apg 59%FG

2004 NBA Finals
22.6ppg 2.8rpg 4.4apg 38%FG
Shaq 26ppg 10rpg 1apg 63%FG
2004 Finals Kobe froze Shaq out of the offense, it probably would have been a better move from a team standpoint to feed the guy who's making 63% of his shots the ball more rather than have a guy shooting 38% shot-jack.


2008 NBA Finals vs Boston
25.7ppg 4.7rpg 5apg 40.5%FG


:mad: :rant :banghead:

[xx03xx]

i agree with steve

[D-Rose]

Wow, Bruce are you seriously getting all worked up over this?

[CantStop]

Wow. :oldlol: Are you actually suggesting that John Stockton, one of the 5 greatest PG's ever, has a less effective/fundamental left hand dribble than Kobe?

Stockton couldn't dribble with his left, he says. :oldlol: Guess it was all an illusion all those years...

Kobe is fundamentally sound in terms of being ABLE to execute certain moves/feints etc., but he's not fundamentally sound in terms of when to employ them and ease/efficiency of execution. Jordan and Bird were the gold standards there imo.

Steve Smith > Pasty white boy like yourself

Your opinion is void.

Steve Smith said it. He played against MJ in his prime. It's not the first time a former player has said this. Even Phil said it.