If Kobe wins the title this year, he's the player of the decade

[JtotheIzzo]

If Kobe wins this year, he is the player and the face of this decade of basketball.

Feel free to flame away, but remember, I strongly dislike Kobe (this ain't no love piece), but reality is real and this cannot be denied.

[rawimpact]

I agree, and if we look back at the threads made this decade, what percent of them deal with kobe?

[JtotheIzzo]

I agree, and if we look back at the threads made this decade, what percent of them deal with kobe?

oh yeah, definitely the most polarizing, but if he wins he will also be (gulp) the best.

[haterofhaters]

Tim Duncan anyone? If by "face of the decade" you mean most talked about and most recognized.. He's already it.. and would've still been it, even if the Lakers had not even made the playoffs..

If by "face of the decade" you mean best/most successful player of the last 10 years, it's still give the nod to Tim Duncan.

[JtotheIzzo]

Tim Duncan anyone?

if Kobe wins, it'll be Kobe > Duncan

sorry it is true

[Abraham Lincoln]

Alas, he still not be the best player of this decade.


http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/153/421314~Shaquille-O-Neal-Lakers-34-2000-MVP-Posters.jpg

[Quata]

Shaq will still be the face of the decade, kobe will perhaps be the face of 2005-2010.

[BallPhunk]

Alas, he still not be the best player of this decade.

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/153/421314~Shaquille-O-Neal-Lakers-34-2000-MVP-Posters.jpg

Alas, he still not be the best player of this decade.

I think that be more Yoda than honest Abe...

[Mikaiel]

Face of the decade ? Yeah maybe.

Most succesfull player of the decade ? No. Shaq and Duncan have something to say about that.

[DavisWarriorsFan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/God_Optimus_Prime/NBA/Kobe%20Bryant/Kobe_258.jpg

[plowking]

Face of this decade? Yes.

Player of the decade? No. How do you justify putting him over Shaq?

[Micku]

As other people said, he may be the face of the decade. I don't have a problem with that.

Player of the decade? Best player or most successful? Er...I would say that Shaq or Duncan have more of a argument than Kobe.

[RoseCity07]

http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/v/6/bryantkobe.jpg

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.

[cotdt]

Kobe is already the face of basketball. Even on this forum, just look at how many threads are related to him.

[DirkLegend41]

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.
Its not like Kobe can do it alone. Mike, Magic, Wade and Bird had All-Stars on their team to win NBA titles.

[BallPhunk]

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.

Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals

Are you serious?

:(

[WoGiTaLiA1]

Face is arguable. Shaq is certainly better known in Australia, Yao also has a serious case for that title.

Best he has no case. Duncan and Shaq are the only two guys who get that title, Garnett is 3rd and then daylight. Kobe is probably the guy in 4th though.

[Allstar24]

You can make a case for Duncan or Kobe, I'm fine with either one. I'd probably go with Duncan at the moment. But what has Shaq done since winning the title in 06?

07- first round exit (swept by Bulls)
08- first round exit (in 5 games to the Spurs)
09- failed to make the playoffs

Shaq might've been the face of the first 6 years of the decade though.

[fefe]

Kobe is the face of this decade's basketball, but no matter if he wins it or not this year, he will not take over Duncan and Shaq as the best player of the decade. He will stay at #3...
Sorry Izzo, but this is true.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Kobe may the face in terms of being well known and popular, but if we're talking about most successful or best player of the decade? I think these two guys have something to say about that:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/DMKA/06-15-oneal-mvp.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/DMKA/txtimduncanmvpgetty.jpg

[YAWN]

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.

youre such a bitter ******

[takeittothehoop]

I still would go with Shaq for the face of basketball in this decade. I don't think there is neccersarily one single face..there's many. Kobe, Shaq and Duncan will be the three main guys that will be remembered from this past decade IMO.

[Meticode]

Shaq to me will be the player of the decade. If Kobe wins next year along with this year I could see him overtaking that spot.

[blacknapalm]

Alas, he still not be the best player of this decade.

I think that be more Yoda than honest Abe...

if he's not then it's duncan. your choice really. kobe comes in 3rd, with possibly of 2nd eventually.

[JordanL]

just give up up man. that is played and whack and so cheap. nothing about it brings up eruptions of humor anymore.

No, now it just brings up insecurities in people who idolize a rapist.

[LakersLaLaLand]

ISH would be nothing without all these trolls and troll feeders.

Super f'in sad.

[Apples]

You can make a case for Duncan or Kobe, I'm fine with either one. I'd probably go with Duncan at the moment. But what has Shaq done since winning the title in 06?

07- first round exit (swept by Bulls)
08- first round exit (in 5 games to the Spurs)
09- failed to make the playoffs

Shaq might've been the face of the first 6 years of the decade though.


Thank you, I was waiting for someone to remind people that Shaq hasn't done anything note worthy in a while.

[Mikaiel]

Thank you, I was waiting for someone to remind people that Shaq hasn't done anything note worthy in a while.

So what ? He was so dominant in the 1st part of the decade it doesn't matter.

[Apples]

No, now it just brings up insecurities in people who idolize a rapist.

When a girl shows up to the court room with the entire All star team's "autograph" on her panties, no one is gonna take her or her accusations seriously, let alone remember Kobe for being accused. Face it, it's Colorado, of course it's still a hot topic there, what else would they have to talk about? The Nuggets?

[Apples]

So what ? He was so dominant in the 1st part of the decade it doesn't matter.

Duncan makes a much larger case for Face of the Decade than Shaq. You can't say Shaq is the face more so than Kobe because Kobe was right there with him. So if Kobe wins this year, he's right there with Duncan for the face of the first 2K decade. Not to mention Kobe and Duncan have only been on one team, even if they weren't winning, it was win or lose on the same team. I feel Shaq going from Miami to Phoenix hurt his iconic status. There's a good chance Shaq will finish up his career having played for 5-6 teams.

[the.powerhouse]

Sad that no one is making a case for Robert Horry and his 5 championships since 2000, countless game winning buzzer beaters and simple all out dominance. So much so in fact that he never needed to show up for regular season games, or the first 47 minutes of playoff games either...:bowdown:

I think it's split into two camps. Fans who get blinded by flashy highlights will think Kobe. Those who watch basketball for more than just the highlights will think Shaq/Duncan. Only time will tell though. Also, most fans won't remember that Shaq didn't do much from 2006 onwards...

[miller-time]

MVP's from the last decade.

2008 - Paul Pierce
2007 - Tony Parker
2006 - Dwyane Wade
2005 - Tim Duncan
2004 - Chauncey Billups
2003 - Tim Duncan
2002 - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - Shaquille O'Neal

Kobe = 0 and possibly 1 very soon.

Just to point out what a face of the decade looks like:

1999 - Tim Duncan
1998 - Michael Jordan
1997 - Michael Jordan
1996 - Michael Jordan
1995 - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Michael Jordan
1992 - Michael Jordan
1991 - Michael Jordan
1990 - Isiah Thomas

[JordanL]

When a girl shows up to the court room with the entire All star team's "autograph" on her panties, no one is gonna take her or her accusations seriously, let alone remember Kobe for being accused. Face it, it's Colorado, of course it's still a hot topic there, what else would they have to talk about? The Nuggets?

:oldlol:

This would be ridiculously sad in almost any area of life... someone rationalizing rape because they idolize the guy who did it.

Kobe isn't the best player this decade. Duncan and Shaq are both better, and it's not even close.

[YAWN]

No, now it just brings up insecurities in people who idolize a rapist.

nice to see the portland fans living up to their reputation of being classy

[Brunch@Five]

:oldlol:

This would be ridiculously sad in almost any area of life... someone rationalizing rape because they idolize the guy who did it.


It wasn't rape, it was groupie sex.

Anyways, if we're talking about a long decade, meaning post-Jordan, it's between Shaq and Duncan. Duncan has won his first title in '99, his last in '07.
Shaq has certainly been the better player over that period and won just as many titles, all of them between '00 and '06. Just think about it, starting in '99, Duncan and Shaq have won 8 of 9 titles, and either one of them has been in all of the 9 finals in that period.
Duncan and Shaq are to the '00s what Magic and Bird have been to the 80's, only that they've played in the same conference.

Kobe is #3, these are his 6th finals this decade

[Allstar24]

When a girl shows up to the court room with the entire All star team's "autograph" on her panties, no one is gonna take her or her accusations seriously, let alone remember Kobe for being accused. Face it, it's Colorado, of course it's still a hot topic there, what else would they have to talk about? The Nuggets?
:oldlol: I know, people seem to care more about Kobe's rape case (after 5 years) than the Nuggets, how sad.

[NBASTATMAN]

If Kobe wins this year, he is the player and the face of this decade of basketball.

Feel free to flame away, but remember, I strongly dislike Kobe (this ain't no love piece), but reality is real and this cannot be denied.


Most talked about? yes.. Best player ? NO.. Tim Duncan goes down as the best player in this DECADE... 4 titles, 3finals mvps , 2 regular season MVP's and he beat KOBE AND SHAQ with no other all star playing next to him... TIM DUNCAN JUST NEEDS 1 MORE TITLE TO GET TO THE 5-7 club... Though I think Hakeem was better than Duncan.. Duncan has been lucky enough to play in a league where only 2 centers dominated...

[1~Gibson~1]

just give up up man. that is played and whack and so cheap. nothing about it brings up eruptions of humor anymore.neither does this picture but for some reason trolls think it's funny :confusedshrug:

http://misterirrelevant.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/lebron_crybaby_big.jpg

[CantStop]

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.

LOL. BS. Nobody even cares about that anymore you moron. Kobe is known for being the best basketball player in the world. Portland fans and Denver fans are still salty.

[1~Gibson~1]

LOL. BS. Nobody even cares about that anymore you moron. Kobe is known for being the best basketball player in the world. Portland fans and Denver fans are still salty.

i read: OUTSIDE of the basketball world

[Knicks101]

Duncan > Kobe

Fact

[CantStop]

i read: OUTSIDE of the basketball world

I know that you idiot. Point is, NOBODY remembers that anymore. Ask anybody on the street what they think about Kobe and they will say he's a fantastic NBA player, not an alleged rap!st. Unless you stay in your basement or something...

[1~Gibson~1]

I know that you idiot. Point is, NOBODY remembers that anymore. Ask anybody on the street what they think about Kobe and they will say he's a fantastic NBA player, not an alleged rap!st. Unless you stay in your basement or something...EVERYONE remembers it you idiot. Kobe's rape is the main thing Kobe haters bring up when mentioning something OUTSIDE of the game of basketball.

And he said OUTSIDE of basketball which means OTHER THAN PLAYING BASKETBALL :rolleyes:

[Bigsmoke]

You can make a case for Duncan or Kobe, I'm fine with either one. I'd probably go with Duncan at the moment. But what has Shaq done since winning the title in 06?

07- first round exit (swept by Bulls)
08- first round exit (in 5 games to the Spurs)
09- failed to make the playoffs

Shaq might've been the face of the first 6 years of the decade though.

what about Kobe?

05- failed to make the playoffs
06- first round exit
07- first round exit

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

he is ALREADY the face of this decade. He IS, and has been the most popular player in the world.

Tim Duncan: goat '00s, but not a popular player, not a media darling.
Shaq: faded
Lebron: NBA and ESPN are doing their best to hype. he will be the face of the next decade...coming right up.

who else is there? AI? nah.

[Allstar24]

what about Kobe?

05- failed to make the playoffs
06- first round exit
07- first round exit
My point is, Shaq completely fell off the map after '06...he had 3 forgettable seasons in a row. Kobe on the other hand, became arguably the best player in the league. During the time when he failed to get out of the first round because he was on a bad team, he was still considered to be the best player in the league due to his great individual accomplishments.

2000-2002: 3 time NBA champion
2002-2003: arguably the best player in the league (averaged 30/7/6), 9 consecutive 40 point games, etc.
2003-2004: reached the NBA finals
2004-2005: forgettable season, injured.
2005-2006: the best player in the league, scoring title (35.4 ppg), 81 points, 62 in 3 quarters, 4 consecutive 45 point games, etc.
2006-2007: arguably the best player in the league, scoring title, 4 consecutive 50 point games, etc.
2007-2008: MVP season, reached NBA finals, gold medal
2008-2009: reached NBA finals (could possibly win a title and finals MVP)
2009-2010: ?

So Kobe's been irrelevant for one year in the decade. Shaq's been irrelevant since 06.

[vinsane01]

MVP's from the last decade.

2008 - Paul Pierce
2007 - Tony Parker
2006 - Dwyane Wade
2005 - Tim Duncan
2004 - Chauncey Billups
2003 - Tim Duncan
2002 - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - Shaquille O'Neal

Kobe = 0 and possibly 1 very soon.

Just to point out what a face of the decade looks like:

1999 - Tim Duncan
1998 - Michael Jordan
1997 - Michael Jordan
1996 - Michael Jordan
1995 - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Michael Jordan
1992 - Michael Jordan
1991 - Michael Jordan
1990 - Isiah Thomas

QFT

But when you say "face of the decade," you meant in terms of popularity. Then he clearly is.

But if you meant best player...then no, just no..

[mavsfan4zindagi]

He's definitely the most popular player of the decade. His groupies roll all the way from LA to Maine.

But in terms of production and accomplishments, Duncan and especially Shaq are far ahead.

3rd best player and most popular/talked about of the decade I would say.

[BallPhunk]

Kobe played alright against Denver, but now people are claiming this is one of the best playoff runs of all time by Kobe Bryant, did you forget how he performed in rounds 1-2?

game 1 vs utah 9-17...

What a rollercoaster of performances! Hardly consistent.


You're sheet is weak. I've seen you post this in nearly every thread as if it's some master point, forgetting that most here actually watch the games.

1st - So: What a rollercoaster of performances! Hardly consistent.


Here's the actual percentages of those games:

game 1 vs utah 52%
game 2 vs utah 47%
game 3 vs utah 20%
game 4 vs utah 66%
game 5 vs utah 47%

game 1 vs houston 45%
game 2 vs houston 59%
game 3 vs houston 39%
game 4 vs houston 41%
game 5 vs houston 52%
game 6 vs houston 40%
game 7 vs houston 33%

game 1 vs denver 46%
game 2 vs denver 50%
game 3 vs denver 50%
game 4 vs denver 38%
game 5 vs denver 46%
game 6 vs denver 60%

game 1 vs orlando 47%

So he had 1 bad game in Utah, and two mediocre games in Houston. Proves a lot!

I randomly (I swear) took a playoff year of your idol Michael Jordan and looked at his shooting %. Here's his finals for 1996:

Game 1 50%
Game 2 41%
Game 3 47%
Game 4 32%
Game 5 50%
Game 6 26%

What a roller coaster of performances! Hardly consistent. NO? It obviously says little about his actual "greatness", how important he was, clutch, attention he drew leaving others open, big shots, tough shots he had to take, blah blah blaaaah...

% quoting is mindless hater-food.

BTW - I've NEVER heard the media "claiming this is one of the best playoff runs of all time by Kobe Bryant". That's made up by your mind to justify your constant complaining.

He's playing very well, and closing when they've needed him. It's been amazing to watch at times. That is all.

:sleeping

[Bush4Ever]

1. Most popular and talked about player of the decade.
2. Third best player of the decade, behind Shaq and Duncan

/thread

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan is the GOAT. Period.

1981 Breaks record at McDonald's All-American game by scoring 30 points

1982= hits game winner for North Carolina, jumps into pass lane on defense forcing Sleepy Floyd to turn the ball over to James Worthy.

1983 = UNC choked in the NCAA tourney despite having the #2 seed, not Jordan

1984 = 1984 Named college Player of the Year. 1984 Wins Olympic gold medal as the leader of the U.S. basketball team. UNC choked again in the sweet 16 despite having the #1 seed, not Jordan

1985 = joined Chicago, who only won 27 games the year before, and led the franchise to 38 wins and the playoff's. 1985 Named NBA Rookie of the Year. The "GOAT. Period." is worth only a 11 game improvement? Name a top ten player who had such little impact improving his team in his rookie season.

1986 = Scored 63 points on the team that went on to win the championship that year, the Celtics were the #1 rated defense in the NBA, Jordan took them to their limit, despite Orlando Woolridge shooing 9-27 in the game, Jordan still kept the Bulls in it. Getting swept in the first round is "taking them to their limit?"

:roll:

As to the OP, Shaq is automatically disqualified from the running because he has not been a top ten player since 2005. You cannot be the player of the decade when you were only a force for half of it. The only real choices are Duncan and Kobe. Kobe>Duncan.

[insidehoops]

I need to say this:

To you fake-ass fans out there who constantly bring up the Colorado rape charge every time REAL BASKETBALL FANS try to have a decent conversation about Kobe Bryant, the basketball player: SHUT UP. Seriously. You lower the quality of basketball discussions with your dumb crap.

[imdaman99]

LOL ban for the moronic 16 year olds that bring up the rape charge in a serious thread.

[insidehoops]

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.

:rolleyes: This is crap.

[BallPhunk]

Jordan is the GOAT. Period.

Comparing Kobe to Jordan is like comparing McDonalds happy meals to steak dinners.

As usual, you ignore the point and go to your MJ>KB cut & paste.

Yes MJ is > than KB, but of course I never said otherwise. You're just blind and have the debating skills of a 12 year old.

I showed that the stats you use to deride Kobe's 09 playoff run are very similar to MJ's same stats during a championship run. MEANING: Your grand attack means nothing.

:rolleyes:

[BallPhunk]

This is misleading spin which cleverly turns MJ's inability to shoot the 3 at the real 3 point line into an asset. Should Kobe be penalized because he is an adequate three point shooter? Let's look at their true shooting percentages and effective FG %.

True shooting percentage (Playoffs)

MJ

56.5%
58%
53%
60%
60%
59%
60%
57%
55%
56%
56%
52%
54.5%

Kobe

54%
50%
50%
52%
55.5%
51%
53%
51%
59%
56%
58%
57%

Career playoff true shooting percentage: MJ 57%, Kobe 54%

Effective shooting percentage (adjusts for the fact that 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers)

MJ

44%
51%
43%
53%
52%
53%
54%
51%
50%
50%
51%
49%
47%
47%

Kobe

44%
43%
46%
47%
48.5%
46%
47%
44%
54.5%
50%
51%
50%

Career: MJ 50%, Kobe 48%

MJ>Kobe but the gap is not as big as blitz would (mis)lead you to believe due to Kobe's ability to shoot the three. Remember, shooting 33% at 3's is worth as many points as shooting 50% at 2's.


Guess stats can be spun different ways...

blitz owned

[bruceblitz]

As usual, you ignore the point and go to your MJ>KB cut & paste.

Yes MJ is > than KB, but of course I never said otherwise. You're just blind and have the debating skills of a 12 year old.

I showed that the stats you use to deride Kobe's 09 playoff run are very similar to MJ's same stats during a championship run. MEANING: Your grand attack means nothing.

:rolleyes:
1991 = In the 1991 NBA Finals Jordan posted per game averages of 31.2 points on 56% shooting from the field, 11.4 assists, 6.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals and 1.4 blocks. Jordan won his first NBA Finals MVP award by a unanimous decision, and he cried while holding the NBA Finals trophy.

1992 = In the 1992 NBA Finals Jordan was named Finals MVP for the second year in a row and finished the series averaging 35.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, and 6.5 apg, 1.67 steals, .33 blocks while shooting 53% from the floor.

1993 = In the 1993 NBA Finals Jordan averaged a Finals-record 41.0 ppg during the six-game series, 8.5 rebounds, 6.3 assists, .67 blocks, 1.67steals, and became the first player in NBA history to win three straight Finals MVP awards. Jordan scored more than 30 points in every game of the series, including 40 or more points in 4 consecutive games, an NBA finals record which has never been threatened.

game 1 vs utah 9-17
game 2 vs utah 8-17
game 3 vs utah 5-24
game 4 vs utah 16-24
game 5 vs utah 10-21

game 1 vs houston 14-31
game 2 vs houston 16-27
game 3 vs houston 11-28
game 4 vs houston 7-17
game 5 vs houston 10-19
game 6 vs houston 11-27
game 7 vs houston 4-12

game 1 vs denver 13-28
game 2 vs denver 10-20
game 3 vs denver 12-24
game 4 vs denver 10-26
game 5 vs denver 6-13
game 6 vs denver 12-20

game 1 vs orlando 16-34

You are comparing THAT to prime Jordan? :lol :mad: :hammerhead:

My posts DESTROY anything anyone can post. Anything. I have more too.

[LA_Showtime]

You average 22.91 posts per day and you can't manage to post something decent every once in a while?????

[Roundball_Rock]

Glen Rice 11 seasons over 38% from 3 point land, 3 seasons shooting over 86% from ft line, 4 seasons over 40% shooting from 3 point land
Kobe Bryant 1 season over 38% fom 3 point land, 2 seasons over 86% from ft line, 0 seasons shooting over 40% shooting from 3 point land

That's a real shooter.

:oldlol: Glen Rice is one of the greatest shooters ever and you are comparing him to Kobe? Kobe is merely adequate at shooting 3's.


Manute Bol 7'6",
Yao Ming 7'6"
Shawn Bradley 7'5"
Rik Smits 7'4",
Ralph Sampson 7'4"
Mark Eaton 7'3"
Dikembe Mutombo 7'2",
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7'2",
Artis Gilmore 7'2",
Greg Ostertag 7'2"
Shaq O'Neal 7'1",
David Robinson 7'1",
Tree Rollins 7'1",
Tyson Chandler 7'1",
Vlade Divac 7'1"
Hakeem Olajuwon 7'0",
Patrick Ewing 7'0",
Benoit Benjamin 7'0",
Tim Duncan 7'0",
James Edwards 7'0",
Robert Parish 7'0"
Kevin Garnett 6'11",
Ervin Johnson Jr 6'11",
Marcus Camby 6'11",
Jermaine O'Neal 6'11",
Andrew Lang 6'11",
Roy Tarpley 6'11",
Bill Laimbeer 6'11",
Hot Rod Williams 6'11"
Alonzo Mourning 6'10",
Moses Malone 6'10",
Larry Nance 6'10",
Tom Gugliotta 6'10",
Theo Ratliff 6'10",
Rick Mahorn 6'10",
Shawn Kemp 6'10",
Danny Manning 6'10",
Clifford Robinson 6'10",
Kevin McHale 6'10"
Antonio McDyess 6'9",
Kenyon Martin 6'9",
Ben Wallace 6'9",
Pervis Ellison 6'9",
Andrei Kirilenko 6'9",
Chris Webber 6'9"
Bo Outlaw 6'8",
Elton Brand 6'8"
Dennis Rodman 6'7",
Jerome Kersey 6'7",
Xavier McDaniel 6'7"

:oldlol: @ the inclusion of people like Yao who MJ played against when Yao was a rookie.

The problem with the list is almost every one of them is an American player, aside from the ones in bold. When you exclude Yao and Kirilenko, who barely played MJ as noobs and who MJ hardly "owned" when MJ was past his prime, you are left with only five of the forty seven players listed being of foreign
origin.


Grant Hill - Height 6'8"
Sean Elliott - Height 6'8"
Robert Reid - Height 6'8"
Jerry Reynolds - Height 6'8"
Walt Williams - Height 6'8"
Malik Sealy - Height 6'8"
Shawn Marion - Height 6'7"
Bruce Bowen - Height 6'7"
Lionel Simmons - Height 6'7"
Calbert Cheaney - Height 6'7"
Penny Hardaway - Height 6'7"
Bryon Russell - Height 6'7"
Clyde Drexler - Height 6'7"
Reggie Miller - Height 6'7"
Purvis Short - Height 6'7"
Tony Campbell - Height 6'7"
Dale Ellis - Height 6'7"
Steve Smith - Height 6'7"
Reggie Theus - Height 6'7"
Glen Rice - Height 6'7"
Alex English - Height 6'7"
Reggie Williams - Height 6'7"
Dominique Wilkins - Height 6'7"
Nick Anderson - Height 6'6"(typo in vid)
Gerald Wilkins - Height 6'6"
Rolando Blackman - Height 6'6"
Stacey Augmon - Height 6'6"
Doug Christie - Height 6'6"
Craig Ehlo - Height 6'6''
Ron Harper - Height 6'6"
Chris Mullin - Height 6'6"
Jim Jackson - Height 6'6"
Kobe Bryant - Height 6'6"
Ron Artest - Height 6'6"
Paul Pierce - Height 6'6"
Michael Ray Richardson - Height 6'5"
Mario Ellie - Height 6'5"
Mitch Richmond - Height 6'5"
Michael Cooper - Height 6'5"
Kendall Gill - Height 6'5"
Kerry Kittles - Height 6'5"
Raja Bell - Height 6'5"
Mike Woodson - Height 6'5"
Gary Payton - Height 6'4"
Lester Conner - Height 6'4"
Dennis Johnson - Height 6'4"
Jeff Malone - Height 6'4"
Joe Dumars - Height 6'3"
John Starks - Height 6'3"
Jeff Hornacek - Height 6'3

Not a single foreign player on the list! :oldlol: Ruth never faced black, Latino, and Asian players; Jordan barely faced any foreign players.

[bruceblitz]

:oldlol: Glen Rice is one of the greatest shooters ever and you are comparing him to Kobe? Kobe is merely adequate at shooting 3's.



:oldlol: @ the inclusion of people like Yao who MJ played against when Yao was a rookie.

The problem with the list is almost every one of them is an American player, aside from the ones in bold. When you exclude Yao and Kirilenko, who barely played MJ as noobs and who MJ hardly "owned" when MJ was past his prime, you are left with only five of the forty seven players listed being of foreign
origin.



Not a single foreign player on the list! :oldlol: Ruth never faced black, Latino, and Asian players; Jordan barely faced any foreign players.
That is the single weakest argument in excuse making history in a lame attempt to close the gap. Good stuff Kobe apostle. I'll keep building my smash your dreams posts more and more every time I read crap like this.

[Roundball_Rock]

World population: 6.8 billion
US population: 0.3 billion

Kobe has played the best of the best. Ruth is still a legend even though he did not face 10-15% of the American population (let alone never facing foreign comp...).

[MaxFly]

Pretty much what everyone will remember him for outside of the basketball world. Kind of like how everyone remembers Tyson bitting ears and r*ping women.

No matter what Kobe does or how hard he works, there is still someone better than him. Shaq got him 3 rings. Now he got a all star power forward to help him back to the finals.

Just in case anyone missed this...



I need to say this:

To you fake-ass fans out there who constantly bring up the Colorado rape charge every time REAL BASKETBALL FANS try to have a decent conversation about Kobe Bryant, the basketball player: SHUT UP. Seriously. You lower the quality of basketball discussions with your dumb crap.

[YAWN]

copy and paste garbage

99.99% of people think Jordan > Kobe, now shut the **** up about it.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan 85 playoffs shot 44%
Jordan 86 playoffs shot 51%
Jordan 87 playoffs shot 42%
Jordan 88 playoffs shot 53%
Jordan 89 playoffs shot 51%
Jordan 90 playoffs shot 51%
Jordan 91 playoffs shot 52%
Jordan 92 playoffs shot 50%
Jordan 93 playoffs shot 48%
Jordan 95 playoffs shot 48%
Jordan 96 playoffs shot 46%
Jordan 97 playoffs shot 46%
Jordan 98 playoffs shot 46%

Kobe 97 playoffs shot 38%
Kobe 98 playoffs shot 40%
Kobe 99 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 00 playoffs shot 44%
Kobe 01 playoffs shot 47%
Kobe 02 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 03 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 04 playoffs shot 41%
Kobe 05 DNP in playoffs, missed playoffs without Shaq
Kobe 06 playoffs shot 49%
Kobe 07 playoffs shot 46%
Kobe 08 playoffs shot 48%
Kobe 09 playoffs shooting 46%

This is misleading spin which cleverly turns MJ's inability to shoot the 3 at the real 3 point line into an asset. Should Kobe be penalized because he is an adequate three point shooter? Let's look at their true shooting percentages and effective FG %.

True shooting percentage (Playoffs)

MJ

56.5%
58%
53%
60%
60%
59%
60%
57%
55%
56%
56%
52%
54.5%

Kobe

54%
50%
50%
52%
55.5%
51%
53%
51%
59%
56%
58%
57%

Career playoff true shooting percentage: MJ 57%, Kobe 54%

Effective shooting percentage (adjusts for the fact that 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers)

MJ

44%
51%
43%
53%
52%
53%
54%
51%
50%
50%
51%
49%
47%
47%

Kobe

44%
43%
46%
47%
48.5%
46%
47%
44%
54.5%
50%
51%
50%

Career: MJ 50%, Kobe 48%

MJ>Kobe but the gap is not as big as blitz would (mis)lead you to believe due to Kobe's ability to shoot the three. Remember, shooting 33% at 3's is worth as many points as shooting 50% at 2's.

The other thing that must be factored in is that Kobe has faced tougher competition. Kobe has played against the best players in the world; Jordan basically only played American players (5% of the world population).

[Hotshoot]

Jordan had Pippen we all know how well he did in his first 2 years and as a Wizard.

[bruceblitz]

World population: 6.8 billion
US population: 0.3 billion

Kobe has played the best of the best. Ruth is still a legend even though he did not face 10-15% of the American population (let alone never facing foreign comp...).
Name 1 foreign player from today's game who could defend Michael Jordan without Jordan dumping 50+ on him. You can't, so don't even try. Drazen Petrovic for instance was as good/better than any foreign perimeter defender in today's game. You nin-com-poop.

Hakeem Olajuwon was the greatest foreign player in NBA history, what era did he play in? oh, oops, forgot about him too didn't you?

Jordan shot a clutch shot over the contested hand of who in game 3 of the 1991 NBA Finals? You guessed it, Vlade Divac.

Get out of here with that crap you idiot.

[bruceblitz]

Jordan had Pippen we all know how well he did in his first 2 years and as a Wizard.
Kobe had Shaq, what's your point?

Was Pippen the most dominant player in the NBA?
Kobe 97 playoffs shot 38%
Kobe 98 playoffs shot 40%
Kobe 99 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 00 playoffs shot 44%
Kobe 01 playoffs shot 47%
Kobe 02 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 03 playoffs shot 43%
Kobe 04 playoffs shot 41%
Kobe 05 DNP in playoffs, missed playoffs without Shaq
Kobe 06 playoffs shot 49%
Kobe 07 playoffs shot 46%
Kobe 08 playoffs shot 48%
Kobe 09 playoffs shooting 46%

Playoff production:
Shaq 97 27ppg 61%fg 10.6reb 3.2ast
Shaq 98 30.5ppg 50%fg 10.2reb 2.9ast
Shaq 99 26.6ppg 47%fg 11.6reb 2.3ast
Shaq 00 30.7ppg 46%fg 15.4reb 3.1ast
Shaq 01 30.4ppg 53%fg 15.4reb 3.2ast
Shaq 02 28.5ppg 65%fg 12.6reb 2.8ast
Shaq 03 27ppg 62%fg 14.8reb 3.7ast
In 2004 Kobe started to freeze Shaq out of the offense, a big reason why he left:
Shaq 04 21.5ppg 43%fg 13.2reb 2.5ast
Here listen to Kobe talk about Shaq you dumb ass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7RGEVoHGMw&feature=channel_page

Kobe fans using Pippen as an argument, when Kobe had SHAQ in his PRIME is :roll:

[YAWN]

EVERYONE remembers it you idiot. Kobe's rape is the main thing Kobe haters bring up when mentioning something OUTSIDE of the game of basketball.

And he said OUTSIDE of basketball which means OTHER THAN PLAYING BASKETBALL :rolleyes:

he did not mean outside of playing basketball. he meant in the general public outside of basketball followers. Which is 100% not the case. You go to any mall in the united states or for that matter in the civilized world and ask them if they know who kobe bryant is and you will get answers like "yes, he is the best basketball player in the world".

And the only people that bring it up are people that detest kobe. Its stupid and juvenile. The guy was convicted of nothing, there was no case to be made. Its like if the last 3 girls i fukced all decided to say i raped them when they found out i was rich. Its ****ing stupid, and only retards like rose city keep bringing the nonsense up. at least bruce tries to attack with basketball related arguments.

[bruceblitz]

I am dumb.

So, since we all know Kobe is still working on his first ring as a leader, let's look at how Jordan faired as the leader of the Bulls and what type of competition he faced:

1991 Lakers = ranked 5th in defense
1992 Blazers = ranked 2nd in defense
1993 Suns = ranked 9th in defense
1996 Sonics = ranked 2cnd in defense
1997 Jazz = 9th in defense
1998 Jazz = 16th in defense

Jordan faced 3 top 5 defenses in the NBA Finals. 3!!!!

Average defensive ranking Jordan faced in the Finals?
7.16, not 10 as was falsely posted.

Not to mention, Jordan dropped 63 points on the #1 defense in 1986 who also won the world championship that year aka the Boston Celtics.

All of the defenses Jordan faced and destroyed in the playoffs:
1985 Milwaukee Bucks ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1986 Boston Celtics ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
1987 Boston Celtics ranked 9th in the NBA in defense
1988 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 5th in the NBA in defense
1988 Detroit Pistons ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1989 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1989 New York Knicks ranked 10th in the NBA in defense
1989 Detroit Pistons ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
1990 Milwaukee Bucks ranked 14th in the NBA in defense
1990 Philadelphia 76ers ranked 19th in the NBA in defense
1990 Detroit Pistons ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1991 New York Knicks ranked 12th in the NBA in defense
1991 Philadelphia 76ers ranked 14th in the NBA in defense
1991 Detroit Pistons ranked 4th in the NBA in defense
1992 Miami Heat ranked 24th in the NBA in defense
1992 New York Knicks ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1992 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 11th in the NBA in defense
1993 Atlanta Hawks ranked 22cnd in the NBA in defense
1993 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 6th in the NBA in defense
1993 New York Knicks ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
1995 Charlotte Hornets ranked 9th in the NBA in defense
1995 Orlando Magic ranked 13th in the NBA in defense
1996 Miami Heat ranked 6th in the NBA in defense
1996 New York Knicks ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
1996 Orlando Magic ranked 12th in the NBA in defense
1997 Washington Bullets ranked 13th in the NBA in defense
1997 Atlanta Hawks ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
1997 Miami Heat ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
1998 New Jersey Nets ranked 21st in the NBA in defense
1998 Charlotte Hornets ranked 15th in the NBA in defense
1998 Indiana Pacers ranked 5th in the NBA in defense


Jordan faced 17 top 5 defenses in the post-season.
Jordan faced 24 top 10 defenses in the post-season.
Jordan faced on average the 8.35 ranked Defense in the NBA, in the post-season.

Let's see how Jordan faired against these defenses:
Playoffs
Most Playoffs Points Per Game NBA history (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Playoff Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Playoff Games
8 by Michael Jordan
(Jordan has 1 or 2 50 point playoff games less than Kobe has 40 point playoff games)

Most 40 Point Playoff Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Playoff Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Playoff Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)

NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR
1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS Apr 20, 1986
(1st ranked D)

1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI May 1, 1988
(5th ranked D)

1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI May 5, 1989
(2cnd ranked D)

1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI May 11, 1990
(19th ranked D)

1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI May 10, 1991
(14th ranked D)

1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA Apr 29, 1992
(24th ranked D)

1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI Jun 16, 1993
(9th ranked D)

1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA Apr 28, 1995
(9th ranked D)

1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK May 11, 1996
(3rd ranked D)

1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI Apr 27, 1997
(13th ranked D)

1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA Jun 14, 1998
(16th ranked D)

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES SERIES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2 (Cleveland ranked 5th in the NBA in defense that season)

Michael Jordan NBA record 8 50 point games in the playoffs
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986 (1st ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992 (24th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988 (5th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993 (9th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997 (13th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993 (1st ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988 (5th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989 (2cnd ranked D)
Even more important, Jordan was the main target of these defenses the ENTIRE TIME.


69 Cleveland OT Cleveland 3/28/90
64 Orlando OT Chicago 1/16/93
63 Boston 2OT Boston (Playoffs) * 4/20/86 against #1 rated defense that year
Jordan has the highest point total against a #1 rated defense in league history
in the playoffs no less
61 Detroit OT Detroit 3/4/87
61 Atlanta Chicago 4/16/87
59 Detroit Detroit 3/3/88
58 New Jersey Chicago 2/6/87
57 Washington Chicago 12/23/92
56 Philadelphia Chicago 3/24/87
56 Miami Miami (Playoffs) 4/29/92
55 Cleveland Chicago (Playoffs) 5/1/88
55 Phoenix Chicago (Playoffs) 6/16/93
55 New York New York 3/28/95
55 Washington Washington (Playoffs) 4/30/97
54 L.A. Lakers Los Angeles 11/20/92
54 Cleveland Chicago 11/3/89
54 New York Chicago (Playoffs) 5/31/93
53 Portland Chicago 1/8/87
53 Indiana Chicago 4/12/87
53 Phoenix Chicago 1/21/89
53 Detroit Chicago 3/7/96
52 Cleveland Chicago 12/17/87
52 Portland Chicago 2/26/88
52 Boston Boston 11/9/88
52 Philadelphia Philadelphia 11/16/88
52 Denver Denver 11/26/88
52 Orlando Orlando 12/20/89
52 Charlotte Chicago 3/12/93
51 New Orleans Washington 12/29/01
51 Washington Washington 3/19/92
51 New York Chicago 1/21/97
50 New York New York 11/1/86
50 Milwaukee Milwaukee 4/13/87
50 Boston Chicago 3/18/88
50 Cleveland Chicago (Playoffs) 4/28/88
50 Milwaukee Chicago 2/16/89
50 Cleveland Chicago (Playoffs) 5/5/89
50 Denver Chicago 3/24/92
50 Miami Miami 11/6/96
Those are Jordan's 50 point games, notice how many of them came in the PLAYOFFS. Notice how many came against great defenses and great teams. Also Jordan was the main focus of each defense he faced. That's very important.

ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS:
1st Place: MJ, 24 scoring records
2nd Place: Wilt, 18 scoring records
3rd Place: Moot
- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6 (min. 15 games)
- Highest single season playoff average: MJ 43.7
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most Total Points Playoffs: MJ 5987
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most seasons leading league in total points: MJ 11
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ, Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 38
- Most 30 point games: MJ 563
- Most 30 point games playoffs: MJ 109
- Most consecutive 50 point games playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40

[bruceblitz]

10 scoring titles > 2 scoring titles
6 finals MVP's > 0 finals mvp's
5 league MVP's > 1 league MVP
1 Defensive player of the year > 0 Defensive player of the year
30.12ppg > 25ppg career
33.5ppg playoffs > 24ppg playoffs career

What a gap!

[Roundball_Rock]

Lou Gehrig played against Jackie Robinson. Does that mean he played against as many black players as Ken Griffey? You need to take logic 101.

No one could "stop" Jordan so your question is moot.


Jordan had Pippen we all know how well he did in his first 2 years and as a Wizard.

You know what is funny? MJ could not win without Scottie even when he was playing baseball. MJ never won in the pros without Pip. :oldlol:

MJ's baseball team the year before he arrived: 78-64
MJ's baseball team with the MJ circus: 65-74
MJ's baseball team the year after MJ left: 80-64

Oh, and who managed this team? One Terry Francona. You may have heard of him...

[YAWN]

10 scoring titles > 2 scoring titles
6 finals MVP's > 0 finals mvp's
5 league MVP's > 1 league MVP
1 Defensive player of the year > 0 Defensive player of the year
30.12ppg > 25ppg career
33.5ppg playoffs > 24ppg playoffs career

What a gap!

is that it? please copy and paste more!!!!! it makes the thread more fun to read!!111

[Roundball_Rock]

So, since we all know Kobe is still working on his first ring as a leader, let's look at how Jordan faired as the leader of the Bulls and what type of competition he faced:

1991 Lakers = ranked 5th in defense
1992 Blazers = ranked 2nd in defense
1993 Suns = ranked 9th in defense
1996 Sonics = ranked 2cnd in defense
1997 Jazz = 9th in defense
1998 Jazz = 16th in defense

Jordan faced 3 top 5 defenses in the NBA Finals. 3!!!!

Average defensive ranking Jordan faced in the Finals?
7.16, not 10 as was falsely posted.

Not to mention, Jordan dropped 63 points on the #1 defense in 1986 who also won the world championship that year aka the Boston Celtics.

All of the defenses Jordan faced and destroyed in the playoffs:
1985 Milwaukee Bucks ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1986 Boston Celtics ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
1987 Boston Celtics ranked 9th in the NBA in defense
1988 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 5th in the NBA in defense
1988 Detroit Pistons ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1989 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1989 New York Knicks ranked 10th in the NBA in defense
1989 Detroit Pistons ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
1990 Milwaukee Bucks ranked 14th in the NBA in defense
1990 Philadelphia 76ers ranked 19th in the NBA in defense
1990 Detroit Pistons ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1991 New York Knicks ranked 12th in the NBA in defense
1991 Philadelphia 76ers ranked 14th in the NBA in defense
1991 Detroit Pistons ranked 4th in the NBA in defense
1992 Miami Heat ranked 24th in the NBA in defense
1992 New York Knicks ranked 2cnd in the NBA in defense
1992 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 11th in the NBA in defense
1993 Atlanta Hawks ranked 22cnd in the NBA in defense
1993 Cleveland Cavaliers ranked 6th in the NBA in defense
1993 New York Knicks ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
1995 Charlotte Hornets ranked 9th in the NBA in defense
1995 Orlando Magic ranked 13th in the NBA in defense
1996 Miami Heat ranked 6th in the NBA in defense
1996 New York Knicks ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
1996 Orlando Magic ranked 12th in the NBA in defense
1997 Washington Bullets ranked 13th in the NBA in defense
1997 Atlanta Hawks ranked 3rd in the NBA in defense
1997 Miami Heat ranked 1st in the NBA in defense
1998 New Jersey Nets ranked 21st in the NBA in defense
1998 Charlotte Hornets ranked 15th in the NBA in defense
1998 Indiana Pacers ranked 5th in the NBA in defense


Jordan faced 17 top 5 defenses in the post-season.
Jordan faced 24 top 10 defenses in the post-season.
Jordan faced on average the 8.35 ranked Defense in the NBA, in the post-season.

Let's see how Jordan faired against these defenses:
Playoffs
Most Playoffs Points Per Game NBA history (min. 25 games)
33.4 by Michael Jordan (179 games)

Most Points in a Playoff Game
63 by Michael Jordan

Most 50 Point Playoff Games
8 by Michael Jordan
(Jordan has 1 or 2 50 point playoff games less than Kobe has 40 point playoff games)

Most 40 Point Playoff Games
38 by Michael Jordan

Most 30 Point Playoff Games
109 by Michael Jordan

Most 20 Point Playoff Games
174 by Michael Jordan (he played 179 playoff games and scored under 20 only 5 times)

NBA PLAYOFFS HIGH SCORING GAME BY YEAR
1985-86 - 63 Michael Jordan, CHI at BOS Apr 20, 1986
(1st ranked D)

1987-88 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI May 1, 1988
(5th ranked D)

1988-89 - 50 Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE at CHI May 5, 1989
(2cnd ranked D)

1989-90 - 49 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI May 11, 1990
(19th ranked D)

1990-91 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at PHI May 10, 1991
(14th ranked D)

1991-92 - 56 Michael Jordan, CHI at MIA Apr 29, 1992
(24th ranked D)

1992-93 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs PHO at CHI Jun 16, 1993
(9th ranked D)

1994-95 - 48 Michael Jordan, CHI at CHA Apr 28, 1995
(9th ranked D)

1995-96 - 46 Michael Jordan, CHI at NYK May 11, 1996
(3rd ranked D)

1996-97 - 55 Michael Jordan, CHI vs WAS at CHI Apr 27, 1997
(13th ranked D)

1997-98 - 45 Michael Jordan, CHI at UTA Jun 14, 1998
(16th ranked D)

ALL-TIME HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGES SERIES, NBA PLAYOFFS
Jerry West, LAL vs BAL, 1965..... 46.3
Michael Jordan, CHI vs CLE, 1988..... 45.2 (Cleveland ranked 5th in the NBA in defense that season)

Michael Jordan NBA record 8 50 point games in the playoffs
Michael Jordan Chicago at Boston 63 April 20, 1986 (1st ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago at Miami 56 April 29, 1992 (24th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 55 May 1, 1988 (5th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Phoenix 55 June 16, 1993 (9th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Washington 55 April 27, 1997 (13th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago New York 54 May 31, 1993 (1st ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50 April 28, 1988 (5th ranked D)
Michael Jordan Chicago Cleveland 50^ May 5, 1989 (2cnd ranked D)
Even more important, Jordan was the main target of these defenses the ENTIRE TIME.


69 Cleveland OT Cleveland 3/28/90
64 Orlando OT Chicago 1/16/93
63 Boston 2OT Boston (Playoffs) * 4/20/86 against #1 rated defense that year
Jordan has the highest point total against a #1 rated defense in league history
in the playoffs no less
61 Detroit OT Detroit 3/4/87
61 Atlanta Chicago 4/16/87
59 Detroit Detroit 3/3/88
58 New Jersey Chicago 2/6/87
57 Washington Chicago 12/23/92
56 Philadelphia Chicago 3/24/87
56 Miami Miami (Playoffs) 4/29/92
55 Cleveland Chicago (Playoffs) 5/1/88
55 Phoenix Chicago (Playoffs) 6/16/93
55 New York New York 3/28/95
55 Washington Washington (Playoffs) 4/30/97
54 L.A. Lakers Los Angeles 11/20/92
54 Cleveland Chicago 11/3/89
54 New York Chicago (Playoffs) 5/31/93
53 Portland Chicago 1/8/87
53 Indiana Chicago 4/12/87
53 Phoenix Chicago 1/21/89
53 Detroit Chicago 3/7/96
52 Cleveland Chicago 12/17/87
52 Portland Chicago 2/26/88
52 Boston Boston 11/9/88
52 Philadelphia Philadelphia 11/16/88
52 Denver Denver 11/26/88
52 Orlando Orlando 12/20/89
52 Charlotte Chicago 3/12/93
51 New Orleans Washington 12/29/01
51 Washington Washington 3/19/92
51 New York Chicago 1/21/97
50 New York New York 11/1/86
50 Milwaukee Milwaukee 4/13/87
50 Boston Chicago 3/18/88
50 Cleveland Chicago (Playoffs) 4/28/88
50 Milwaukee Chicago 2/16/89
50 Cleveland Chicago (Playoffs) 5/5/89
50 Denver Chicago 3/24/92
50 Miami Miami 11/6/96
Those are Jordan's 50 point games, notice how many of them came in the PLAYOFFS. Notice how many came against great defenses and great teams. Also Jordan was the main focus of each defense he faced. That's very important.

ALL-TIME SCORING RECORDS:
1st Place: MJ, 24 scoring records
2nd Place: Wilt, 18 scoring records
3rd Place: Moot
- Highest career scoring average: MJ 30.12
- Highest career playoff scoring average: MJ 33.4
- Highest career Finals scoring average: MJ 33.6 (min. 15 games)
- Highest single season playoff average: MJ 43.7
- Highest single Finals series average: MJ 41.0
- Most Total Points Playoffs: MJ 5987
- Most seasons leading league in scoring: MJ 10
- Most seasons leading league in total points: MJ 11
- Most consecutive seasons leading in scoring: MJ, Wilt tied at 7
- Most 50 point games playoffs: MJ 8
- Most 40 point games playoffs: MJ 38
- Most 30 point games: MJ 563
- Most 30 point games playoffs: MJ 109
- Most consecutive 50 point games playoffs: MJ 2
- Most consecutive 45 point games playoffs: MJ 3
- Most consecutive 40 point games finals: MJ 4
- Most consecutive 30 point games finals: MJ 9
- Most consecutive 20 point games playoffs: MJ 60
- Most consecutive 20 point games finals: MJ 35
- Most consecutive double figures scoring: MJ 866
- Highest scoring game playoffs: MJ 63
- Most points in one half finals: MJ 35
- Oldest to score 50: MJ 51 at age 38
- Oldest to score 40: MJ 43 at age 40

Irrelevant. Babe Ruth faced top ranked teams as well but every real sports fan understands the comp back then was weaker because he did not play against black, Latino, Asian, or foreign players. Rankings are a relative thing. Does anyone think being ranked 5th in baseball in 1920 is the same as being 5th in 2009?

[miles berg]

Please, Duncan and Shaq had far better decades. They LED their teams to 3 titles, Kobe has LED his team to 1 title.

[GUUS]

Kobe=Jesus


end thread

[BallPhunk]

...You are comparing THAT to prime Jordan? :lol :mad: :hammerhead: My posts DESTROY anything anyone can post. Anything. I have more too.

You really are dense. I never compared KB to "prime Jordan", but that's the only argument you can make so whatever. It's almost comical.

I just pointed out that the shooting% stats YOU damn Kobe with this year are VERY similar to a great playoff run your idol MJ had, MAKING THAT ARGUMENT USELESS.

Playoffs - Kobe 2009 vs MJ 1996 shooting %

Highest to Lowest

KB MJ
66 69
60 59
59 53
52 53
52 53
50 50
50 50
47 48
47 48
47 48
46 45
46 44
45 43
41 43
40 40
39 35
38 32
33 32
20 26

The point is NOT that KB=MJ. Kobe isn't nearly MJ. The point is YOUR % numbers and attack on Kobe's playoff run this year mean nothing.

It means that you can't make an argument that doesn't involve cut&paste, and even then it's worthless.

[Showtime]

5 finals appearences in 10 seasons, 3 titles as the #2 guy, potentially 1 as the #1 guy, with two very disappointing showings in 2004 and 2008 isn't the player of the decade IMO.

Shaq still has 3 as the #1, + 1 as the #2 (which would match Kobe's 4 in total), and Duncan still has 2 as the #1 (arguably 3 as the #1), and has never lost in the finals. Kobe has to win this one to even enter the DISCUSSION of Shaq and Duncan, so how can he SURPASS them?

[Sir Charles]

See this is why people don`t respect Kobe Fans you OVERRATE him till a point it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

Shaq:

Top 2 All Time Season PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 2 All Time Play-Offs PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time EFF (Great-Top Skill Set Domination)
Top 10 All Time Statistical +/- (Top All Around Game Impact)

Won 4 Titles: 4 of them as THE BEST PLAYER

Just look at his Stats and Play-Offs Stats they speak for nothing more than the

*Most Efficient Inside Scorer of All Time in Active Game History

*Most Doubled and Tripled Center of All Time with Wilt


Duncan:

Top 5 All Time Play-Off PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 7 All Time PER Season (Total Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 18 All Time Statiscial + / - (Great All Around Game Impact)


4 Titles: 1 Of them As The 1st or 2nd Best Player, The Rest as THE BEST PLAYER

*Second Best CF of All Time: after Hakeem Olajuwon


Kevin Garnett

Top 12 Play-Off PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF Player (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 20 All Time Statistical +/- (Great All Around Game Impact)


Won 1 Championship (fafter playing for pathetic teams All His Life, unlike the Other Players) as THE BEST PLAYER (before Kobe)

*Best All Around PF-SF of All Time

*Top 4 Pure PF of All Time

**2008-2009 Injury Reason Why He Probably Doesn`t have 2 Titles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe

Top 15 Play-Offf PER of All Time (Great Individidual Domination)
Top 21 Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 48 EFF Player of All Time (Good Skill Set Domination)
Top 22 Statistical +/- All Time (Great All Around Game Impact)


Never Won a Title as a Best Player

*Will Win This Year with THE BEST TEAM in the NBA (different from all those other players)

*One of the of 2 or 3 of Greatest 1 on 1 Perimter Shooters of All Time


It is Quite Clear that Shaq, Duncan and Garnett are the Best Players of the Decade

[BallPhunk]

[B]See this is why people don`t respect Kobe Fans you OVERRATE him till a point it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

Shaq:
...

[COLOR="DarkRed"]It is Quite Clear that Shaq, Duncan and Garnett are the Best Players of the Decade

For someone complaining that others don't know the game, you did a questionable job of Garnett vs Kobe.

I've added a bit (mine are in black :lol )

Kevin Garnett

Top 12 Play-Off PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF Player (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 20 All Time Statistical +/- (Great All Around Game Impact)

Won 1 Championship (fafter playing for pathetic teams All His Life, unlike the Other Players) as THE BEST PLAYER (before Kobe)
Doesn't the best player usually win MVP?

*Best All Around PF-SF of All Time
What? Since when is Garnett considered anywhere near a SF? Never.
*Top 4 Pure PF of All Time

**2008-2009 Injury Reason Why He Probably Doesn`t have 2 Titles
Maybe - LA beat Boston WITH KG, but we will never know.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe

Top 15 Play-Offf PER of All Time (Great Individidual Domination)
Top 21 Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 48 EFF Player of All Time (Good Skill Set Domination)
Top 22 Statistical +/- All Time (Great All Around Game Impact)

2nd greatest shooting guard of all time (some argue West is 2nd, still)

Never Won a Title as a Best Player
But has 3 championships and played a big role in getting them, and is close to winning one as the best player (something KG has never done ;-) )

*Will Win This Year with THE BEST TEAM in the NBA (different from all those other players) ?? O'reilly? KG didn't have the best team last year? (as did all the others?

*One of the of 2 or 3 of Greatest 1 on 1 Perimter Shooters of All Time

It is Quite Clear that Shaq, Duncan and Garnett are the Best Players of the Decade

Your selective stats aside, Kobe will clearly be considered a greater player than Garnett (the only one of the 4 that was occasionally afraid to take the last possession, and the only one of the 4 that wasn't a "go-to-guy" in the 4th quarter of the championship team[s]).

.

[Roundball_Rock]

How can Shaq even be in the discussion? Shaq has not been a top 10 player since 2005. How can you be the "player of the decade" when you were not even a top 10 player for half the decade? We are talking about the 2000s, not 1995-2005.

Kobe 3 (4?) rings>Garnett's 1

Garnett did not play on "pathetic" teams his entire career. He played on four 50 win teams--and lost in the first round with three of them (he was in the WCF once in Minnesota). Garnett has not enjoyed the teams Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, and others have had but it is a myth that he has lousy teams. The year he went to the WCF he had Sam Cassell averaging 20/7 and making the all-star team, Latrell Sprewell adding 17 points per game and a Wally S who was a year removed from making an all-star team. Some players are just winners, some are not despite being great individual players. Garnett is not a winner like Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq. Sir_Charles, you often speak about impact but is not the ultimate impact on the W-L column?

Duncan is the only one who has a case over Kobe in this decade and Kobe will overtake him if he wins the title this year.

[juju151111]

You really are dense. I never compared KB to "prime Jordan", but that's the only argument you can make so whatever. It's almost comical.

I just pointed out that the shooting% stats YOU damn Kobe with this year are VERY similar to a great playoff run your idol MJ had, MAKING THAT ARGUMENT USELESS.

Playoffs - Kobe 2009 vs MJ 1996 shooting %

Highest to Lowest

KB MJ
66 69
60 59
59 53
52 53
52 53
50 50
50 50
47 48
47 48
47 48
46 45
46 44
45 43
41 43
40 40
39 35
38 32
33 32
20 26

The point is NOT that KB=MJ. Kobe isn't nearly MJ. The point is YOUR % numbers and attack on Kobe's playoff run this year mean nothing.

It means that you can't make an argument that doesn't involve cut&paste, and even then it's worthless.
LOL Mj at 33 to a 30 year old MJ. hahahahahhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:lol :roll: Good job kobe

[BlackMamba24]

I agree. Kobe is the best player this decade and all time.

[VCMVP1551]

Shaq is the player of the decade. Look at what Shaq, Duncan and Kobe have done this decade(assuming Kobe wins a championship).

Shaq
4 championships, 3 finals MVP's, 3 championships as the best player, 1 MVP(deserved 3), best season of the decade(1999-2000), best finals performances of the decade(take your pick between 2000, 2001 and 2002), 1 scoring title

Kobe
4 championships, 1 finals MVP, 1 championship as the best player, 1 MVP, 2 scoring titles

Duncan
3 championships, 2 finals MVP's, 3 championships as the best player, 2 MVP's, best finals series aside from Shaq(2003)

Shaq and Kobe would still have 2 more championships as the best player on their team than Kobe does this decade. Duncan would have more MVP's and we all know Shaq's been robbed of MVP's.

Duncan was better than Kobe almost every season from 2000-2007. The exception being 2006 and maybe 2007. So Duncan would have still been the better player for more seasons and he would be more accomplished as far as championships as the best player and MVP's(both regular season and finals).

And while Shaq has fallen off in the last few years, don't forget that he was MUCH better than Kobe in 2000, still considerably better in 2001 and 2002, and still better in 2004 and 2005. Shaq also had a case for being better in 2003. So throughout the decade Shaq has been better than Kobe atleast 5 seasons.

Shaq and Duncan clearly rank ahead of Kobe for this decade.



But has 3 championships and played a big role in getting them, and is close to winning one as the best player (something KG has never done ;-) )

Granett was obviously the best player on the 2008 Celtics.

[BallPhunk]

LOL Mj at 33 to a 30 year old MJ. hahahahahhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:lol :roll: Good job kobe

The point was to show blitz's % stats are whack, not compare ages, but ok...

Playoffs - Kobe 2009 vs MJ 1993 shooting % (SAME AGE)

Highest to Lowest

KB MJ
66 60
60 57
59 57
52 57
52 55
50 53
50 50
47 50
47 50
47 46
46 45
46 44
45 44
41 41
40 37
39 37
38 33
33 15
20

Still laughing bozo?

Of course, this will be taken again as me comparing, when what I'm really saying is that blitz's % attack on Kobe for these playoffs is absurd, and to prove it by showing the GOAT has similar numbers in (now 2) playoff runs.

:no:

[Sir Charles]

[QUOTE=BallPhunk]For someone complaining that others don't know the game, you did a questionable job of Garnett vs Kobe.

I've added a bit (mine are in black :lol )


Doesn't the best player usually win MVP?

MVP = Most Valueable Player Not Best Player :hammerhead:

Sometimes The Best Player Gets the MVP...Sometimes Not...


What? Since when is Garnett considered anywhere near a SF? Never.

He is a Versatile Player capable of playing SF-PF and FC and did play at SF for some seasons such as Barkley from 1989-91.

2nd greatest shooting guard of all time (some argue West is 2nd, still)

I never said Second Greatest SG I said "Second or Third 1 on 1 Shooting Skill Wise SG of All Time"

But has 3 championships and played a big role in getting them, and is close to winning one as the best player (something KG has never done ;-) )

That is Good for Kobe is a Great Player a Top 25-30 of All Time :applause:

Garnett was the Best Player in the Celtics RUn in 2009. He wasn`t the leading Scorer or Clutch Shooter but he HAD THE OVERAL BEST IMPACT AND ALL AROUND GAME: YEARS ago Barkely said there are ONLY 3 SUPERSTARS IN THE LEAGUE:

Strange that the Stats evidence this huh?

You Dumb Blind Kobe Fans Think that Being the Best Player is "Being a Clutch Shooter and Volume Scorer" :no: :rolleyes:

THERE ARE MORE SKILLS AND WAYS OF IMPACT THAN HAVING A "1 ON 1 GREAT SHOOTING SILKY SMOOTH TOUCH AND FADEAWAY"..REALLY, THERE IS... REALLY... :cheers:

No Wonder You Can`t Tell the Difference of Impact Between Players becaue "YOU SEE THE GAME FROM 1 POSITION (SG)" (JORDAN`S FAULT OFCOURSE)...:confusedshrug:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2008.html

2007-08 Boston Celtics Roster and Statistics
Franchise Index: Previous Season ▪ Next Season

Season PER:

Garnett: 25.3

Pierece: 19.6
Ray Allen: 16.4
Rondo: 15.6


Play-Offs PER:

Garnett: 23.0

Pierece: 17.4
Ray Allen: 14.9




?? O'reilly? KG didn't have the best team last year? (as did all the others?


:no:

He Was in One of the Deepest Teams (Today: Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Magic, Nuggets) but not the Best Starting Lineup.

The Lakers have the Best Starting Line Up by MILES

He Was Ine One of the Best 4 Teams.... :confusedshrug:

*Bryant is Quite Lucky Garnett did not play in the play-offs for the Celtics whom couldn`t get to the ECF because they had no Garnett

*So much for idiots that say Pierce is Better than Garnett when PER; EFF and All Statistical Breakdown Stats of IMPACTS Say the Contrary...The evidence at hand.


Your selective stats aside, Kobe will clearly be considered a greater player than Garnett (the only one of the 4 that was occasionally afraid to take the last possession, and the only one of the 4 that wasn't a "go-to-guy" in the 4thE quarter of the championship team[s]).

I don`t go by what the media and the fans want to determine a Great Player i go by Efficiency and Impact = Reality and that even goes BEYOND BROKEN DOWN STATS (CLOSEST TO REALITY) but by also the LEVEL OF TEAMATES this Dude Had IN HIS PRIME and THOSE PLAYERS PRIME etc..

Kevin Garnett Has Been Clearly a Superior All Around Player and Better Impact-Efficiency Player than Kobe

Better: Passer, Rebounder, Interior Defender, Exterior Defender (capable of guarding some Cs, Pfs, SFs), 1 on 1 Defender and as Good as Volume Scorer and Superior Efficiency Scorer FG%

He is not a "Better Clutch Scorer" but that is 1 thing over the many Skill that Garnett has over Kobe

He simply is the BETTER PLAYER and has been.

Garnetts Impact:

Defensive Rating

2003-04 NBA 91.6 (3)
2004-05 NBA 98.7 (8)
2005-06 NBA 98.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 93.8 (1)
2008-09 NBA 97.5 (2)
Active 99.3 (7)

Player Efficiency Rating

1999-00 NBA 23.6 (7)
2000-01 NBA 23.9 (8)
2001-02 NBA 23.8 (6)
2002-03 NBA 26.4 (4)
2003-04 NBA 29.4 (1)
2004-05 NBA 28.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 26.8 (5)
2006-07 NBA 24.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 25.3 (4)
Active 23.8 (5)


All Kobe Fans do to measure a Player`s Level is

"CLUTCH SHOOTING and NICE LOOKING 1 ON 1 SHOOTING FADEWAYS OR PURE SHOOTING"

That is my friend 1 or 2 of the 100s of Facetes and Skills and Forms of Impact a The Game has

There Really is More SKills and Ways of Impact, Really
There Really is More Positions than a SG :cheers:

*Jordan destroyed Real NBA Fans because he DOMINATED ALL SKILLS AND IMPACTED AGAINST ALL from the SG Spot..Something that had Never Been Done, Will Never Be Done Probably and Now Stern a Desesperation (after MJ retired) to keep that MJ Spirtin Alive Trying to Force The Creation of False New Jordan at all cost: making it easier for Perimeter Players (more Marketable Game than the Inside Game ofcourse = a Lost Art In Todays Game) so that they can have a similar Impact and guess what? THEY STILL CANT!!!!!!!!!!

* Kobe ofcourse the victim of this comparission and hype but its not his fault he is a great player

Just not in the level of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron...soon Wade

he is more in the Wade-Dirk level...Wade is rising up to the other level soon

PERIOD

[BallPhunk]

Sir Charles:

1. Paul Pierce was the best player during the Finals for Boston. I agree with KG's "impact", but to say he was the best player is debatable at best. Show me other cases where the "best" didn't win MVP? Maybe Parker/Duncan, but Parker did outplay Duncan that series, and if that series was Duncan's only championship then in would count against him.

*So much for idiots that say Pierce is Better than Garnett when PER; EFF and All Statistical Breakdown Stats of IMPACTS Say the Contrary...The evidence at hand.

You can have your PER, I'll take what my eyes saw in the finals. Garnett wasn't even mentioned 2nd in Finals MVP voting. The truth is at hand.

2. KG can occassionally play SF. Kobe can play forward, LBJ, and on and on. But it's kinda funny to create a category when KG is clearly a PF.

3. You Dumb Blind Kobe Fans Think that Being the Best Player is "Being a Clutch Shooter and Volume Scorer"

THERE ARE MORE SKILLS AND WAYS OF IMPACT THAN HAVING A "1 ON 1 GREAT SHOOTING SILKY SMOOTH TOUCH AND FADEAWAY"..REALLY, THERE IS... REALLY...

No Wonder You Can`t Tell the Difference of Impact Between Players because "YOU SEE THE GAME FROM 1 POSITION (SG)" (JORDAN`S FAULT OFCOURSE)..

Sad that you have to go to the "dumb Kobe fans", but whatever. (you clearly don't know where I'm coming from)

Like it or not, being a teams "go-to" guy and being a clutch shooter DOES have a large bearing on their ranking. KG does have in impact on the game that doesn't show up in the numbers, but not being the go-to guy much of the time HURTS him too. Ignore/spin it if you wish.

4. If you're really trying to tell me LA had a better starting 5 last year by MILES then you're a joke.

The Celts were a better team all year, the whipped LA twice during the season and did the same in the Finals.

5. Kevin Garnett Has Been Clearly a Superior All Around Player and Better Impact-Efficiency Player than Kobe
Better: Passer, Rebounder, Interior Defender, Exterior Defender (capable of guarding some Cs, Pfs, SFs), 1 on 1 Defender and as Good as Volume Scorer and Superior Efficiency Scorer FG%

So you just said KG is as good of a volume scorer as Kobe? Exterior defender :lol (and saying, with his size, that he's a better rebounder/interior defender is not much. And better passer is ??)

6. * Kobe : Just not in the level of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron...soon Wade

he is more in the Wade-Dirk level...Wade is rising up to the other level soon

PERIOD

:cry:
DAMN - I really really really wish I would have read that part first. I would have realized where you're coming from (not Earth) and not debated in the first place.

Take care

[Roundball_Rock]

The point was to show blitz's % stats are whack, not compare ages, but ok...

Playoffs - Kobe 2009 vs MJ 1993 shooting % (SAME AGE)

Highest to Lowest

KB MJ
66 60
60 57
59 57
52 57
52 55
50 53
50 50
47 50
47 50
47 46
46 45
46 44
45 44
41 41
40 37
39 37
38 33
33 15
20

Still laughing bozo?

Of course, this will be taken again as me comparing, when what I'm really saying is that blitz's % attack on Kobe for these playoffs is absurd, and to prove it by showing the GOAT has similar numbers in (now 2) playoff runs.

:no:

Since we are debunking Blitz's myths, how about killing two more of them in this thread? According to Blitz MJ has never had a bad shooting game and he is responsible for every win his team achieved in 179 playoff games. Thanks for posting those numbers. Out of curiosity, I checked which games MJ shot 15, 33, 37, and 37. All of those games were in the ECF against the Knicks. MJ chucked them out of game 1 by jacking up 27 shots on 37% shooting, did so again in game 2 except he jacked up 32 shots this time (37% again) while the Bulls narrowly lost by 5. With the Bulls down 0-2 MJ had his worst game of the playoffs by shooting 17%. Fortunately, Scottie Pippen were there to save the season and carry MJ (something blitz alleges never happened, let alone in a crucial game!) by shooting 83% and putting up 29 points. MJ almost let the Knicks force a game 7 in New York by chucking up 24 shots on 33% shooting in game 6 but once again Scottie was there to score 24 points on 50% shooting as the Bulls won by 8.

[Bodhi]

I think that if Kobe wins these finals in a dominating fashion, it's pretty much a wash for who's the player of the decade between Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan. Personally I lean towards Duncan.

Garnett isn't even close to being in the same discussion as those three and I'm shocked that people are even bringing him up. He's spent, what, two years on contending teams this decade? Whereas Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan have been on contending teams for more than half the decade.

[Roundball_Rock]

That depends on how you define contending. KG played on four 50 win teams in Minnesota from 2000-04 but lost in the first round three times. Should this not be held against him? The great KG could not get out of the first round with solid teams? Where was his great "impact"? :confusedshrug: Then of course he has been on two 60 win Boston teams. In the end, though, it comes down to Kobe and Duncan: 4 rings vs. 3 (4?) and both have been top 10 players every season this decade, with the possible exception of Kobe in 2000. Shaq is the best for the first half of the 2000s but he has not been a top player since 2005.

[Sir Charles]

How can Shaq even be in the discussion? Shaq has not been a top 10 player since 2005. How can you be the "player of the decade" when you were not even a top 10 player for half the decade? We are talking about the 2000s, not 1995-2005.

Kobe 3 (4?) rings>Garnett's 1

:oldlol: Shaq Overall Was THE BEST PLAYER in the NBA til 2006

That`s half of the Decade

Shaq Was THE BEST Player on his Team Pretty Much Always till 2006

And WON 4 RINGS AS THEE BEST PLAYER...

Player Efficiency Rating Season

2000-01 NBA 30.2 (1)
2001-02 NBA 29.7 (1)
2002-03 NBA 29.5 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.4 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.0 (3)

Yearly Playoffs Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating

Year Lg Player PER
2009 NBA LeBron James 37.30
2008 NBA Chris Paul 30.70
2007 NBA Amare Stoudemire 29.57
2006 NBA Tim Duncan 30.38
2005 NBA Yao Ming 28.99
2004 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 27.50
2003 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.61
2002 NBA Tim Duncan 31.80
2001 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 28.67
2000 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.45
1999 NBA Grant Hill 29.29
1998 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 31.00

2003-2004

Player Efficiency Rating

1. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 27.5
2. Kevin Garnett-MIN 25.0
3. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 24.8
4. Tim Duncan-SAS 24.1
5. Manu Ginobili-SAS 22

etc

And No Kobe won his titles as a Second Fiddle...while Garnett won his as THEE BEST PLAYER in his Team and is not winning the 2009 because he hasn`t played and now look at his team?

Kobe Needs A GREAT GREAT TEAM to Win...Garnett Needs a Good Team To Win.

Same with Howard, Lebron and Wade...THEY ARE MORE IMPACTFUL PLAYERS....BETTER PLAYERS ALL AROUND AND IMPACT WISE..

Garnett did not play on "pathetic" teams his entire career. He played on four 50 win teams--and lost in the first round with three of them (he was in the WCF once in Minnesota). Garnett has not enjoyed the teams Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, and others have had but it is a myth that he has lousy teams. The year he went to the WCF he had Sam Cassell averaging 20/7 and making the all-star team, Latrell Sprewell adding 17 points per game and a Wally S who was a year removed from making an all-star team. Some players are just winners, some are not despite being great individual players. Garnett is not a winner like Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq. Sir_Charles, you often speak about impact but is not the ultimate impact on the W-L column?

Compared to what Duncan, Shaq and Bryant have had = Yes They Sucked.

Compare the Players he Had to the Ones THose Dudes Have and See For Yourself....:rolleyes: :confusedshrug:

Garnett was a Winner Before Kobe AS THE BEST PLAYER.

And even closing on his Prime

His Impact with Bad Teams is Amazing. It would have been laughable if he would have played for those Celtics with Pierce and Alllen for more years...

*This has nothing to do with Championships anyhow...HIS IMPACT AND SUPERIORITY AS A PLAYER is CLEAR to Anyone that sees the Game from ALL POSITIONS..

W-L = Team :hammerhead:

Duncan is the only one who has a case over Kobe in this decade and Kobe will overtake him if he wins the title this year.[

This decade is:

Shaq

Duncan

Garnett

Anyone can see that...but Laker Fans and "1 on 1 Silky SHooting Touch" *** Lovers" that can`t See the IMPACT of OTHER SKILLS, POSITIONS and PLAYERS Infront of Their Faces

:violin:

[D-Rose]

How can Shaq even be in the discussion? Shaq has not been a top 10 player since 2005. How can you be the "player of the decade" when you were not even a top 10 player for half the decade? We are talking about the 2000s, not 1995-2005.

Kobe 3 (4?) rings>Garnett's 1

:oldlol: Shaq Overall Was THE BEST PLAYER in the NBA til 2006

That`s half of the Decade

Shaq Was THE BEST Player on his Team Pretty Much Always till 2006

And WON 4 RINGS AS THEE BEST PLAYER...

Player Efficiency Rating Season

2000-01 NBA 30.2 (1)
2001-02 NBA 29.7 (1)
2002-03 NBA 29.5 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.4 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.0 (3)

Yearly Playoffs Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating

Year Lg Player PER
2009 NBA LeBron James 37.30
2008 NBA Chris Paul 30.70
2007 NBA Amare Stoudemire 29.57
2006 NBA Tim Duncan 30.38
2005 NBA Yao Ming 28.99
2004 NBA Dirk Nowitzki 27.50
2003 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.61
2002 NBA Tim Duncan 31.80
2001 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 28.67
2000 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 30.45
1999 NBA Grant Hill 29.29
1998 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 31.00

2003-2004

Player Efficiency Rating

1. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 27.5
2. Kevin Garnett-MIN 25.0
3. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 24.8
4. Tim Duncan-SAS 24.1
5. Manu Ginobili-SAS 22

etc

And No Kobe won his titles as a Second Fiddle...while Garnett won his as THEE BEST PLAYER in his Team and is not winning the 2009 because he hasn`t played and now look at his team?

Kobe Needs A GREAT GREAT TEAM to Win...Garnett Needs a Good Team To Win.

Same with Howard, Lebron and Wade...THEY ARE MORE IMPACTFUL PLAYERS....BETTER PLAYERS ALL AROUND AND IMPACT WISE..

Garnett did not play on "pathetic" teams his entire career. He played on four 50 win teams--and lost in the first round with three of them (he was in the WCF once in Minnesota). Garnett has not enjoyed the teams Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, and others have had but it is a myth that he has lousy teams. The year he went to the WCF he had Sam Cassell averaging 20/7 and making the all-star team, Latrell Sprewell adding 17 points per game and a Wally S who was a year removed from making an all-star team. Some players are just winners, some are not despite being great individual players. Garnett is not a winner like Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq. Sir_Charles, you often speak about impact but is not the ultimate impact on the W-L column?

Compared to what Duncan, Shaq and Bryant have had = Yes They Sucked.

Compare the Players he Had to the Ones THose Dudes Have and See For Yourself....:rolleyes: :confusedshrug:

Garnett was a Winner Before Kobe AS THE BEST PLAYER.

And even closing on his Prime

His Impact with Bad Teams is Amazing. It would have been laughable if he would have played for those Celtics with Pierce and Alllen for more years...

*This has nothing to do with Championships anyhow...HIS IMPACT AND SUPERIORITY AS A PLAYER is CLEAR to Anyone that sees the Game from ALL POSITIONS..

W-L = Team :hammerhead:

Duncan is the only one who has a case over Kobe in this decade and Kobe will overtake him if he wins the title this year.[

This decade is:

Shaq

Duncan

Garnett

Anyone can see that...but Laker Fans and "1 on 1 Silky SHooting Touch" *** Lovers" that can`t See the IMPACT of OTHER SKILLS, POSITIONS and PLAYERS Infront of Their Faces

:violin:


Shaq was the best player in the L till 2006 :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: seriously, have you watched a game since Barkley retired?

[Showtime]

How can Shaq even be in the discussion? Shaq has not been a top 10 player since 2005. How can you be the "player of the decade" when you were not even a top 10 player for half the decade? We are talking about the 2000s, not 1995-2005.

Kobe 3 (4?) rings>Garnett's 1

Garnett did not play on "pathetic" teams his entire career. He played on four 50 win teams--and lost in the first round with three of them (he was in the WCF once in Minnesota). Garnett has not enjoyed the teams Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, and others have had but it is a myth that he has lousy teams. The year he went to the WCF he had Sam Cassell averaging 20/7 and making the all-star team, Latrell Sprewell adding 17 points per game and a Wally S who was a year removed from making an all-star team. Some players are just winners, some are not despite being great individual players. Garnett is not a winner like Kobe, Duncan, and Shaq. Sir_Charles, you often speak about impact but is not the ultimate impact on the W-L column?

Duncan is the only one who has a case over Kobe in this decade and Kobe will overtake him if he wins the title this year.

By your logic, a player who wins a chip in 2000, 01, 02, 03, AND 04 and then retires wouldn't be eligible for all decade because 2000-2004 isn't the majority of a decade. Sheesh.

[Anaximandro1]

1998-1999 Duncan

1999-2000 Shaq

2000-2001 Shaq

2001-2002 Shaq

2002-2003 Duncan

2003-2004 Pistons

2004-2005 Duncan

2005-2006 Shaq

2006-2007 Duncan

2007-2008 Celtics

2008-2009 Kobe?



Duncan and Shaq have been major pieces of 6 of the last 9 NBA Championship teams or 8 of the last 11 NBA Championship teams.

The two big men have dominated the league over the past decade.No other player since Jordan has come close to what Duncan and Shaq have achieved.Kobe is a distant third.

[Sir Charles]

Shaq was the best player in the L till 2006 :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: seriously, have you watched a game since Barkley retired?

Randomly...but the proof is there...

Kobe has been a Top 3-7 Player in the League at his peek which is now in the 2000s while Shaq has been a Top 1 Many Years...Including the 2000s era

Same with Duncan and Garnett

Garnett surpasses Kobe in Most Areas Clearly especially Impact and All Around Game Wise...

These 3 Are Where Clearly Better than Kobe

[Duncan21formvp]

Kobe will only have 1 finals mvp and 0 titles as the man as Gasol actually led the team in win shares this year.

[BallPhunk]

Randomly...but the proof is there...

Kobe has been a Top 3-7 Player in the League at his peek which is now in the 2000s while Shaq has been a Top 1 Many Years...Including the 2000s era

Same with Duncan and Garnett

Garnett surpasses Kobe in Most Areas Clearly especially Impact and All Around Game Wise...

These 3 Are Where Clearly Better than Kobe

Yeah, and as you said Kobe is on Dirk's level. Go on with yo bad self.

Garnett surpasses Kobe in Most Areas Clearly especially Impact and All Around Game Wise...

I've never read such a vague but still clearly wrong statement in my life...

[Jordandunk23]

how? it would be Kobe's first finals MVP?

the player of this decade still remains between Shaq and Duncan, and seeing as that the decade will be over in the few years, it will not change that it's between Shaq and Duncan...

you have to be blind to think otherwise...

[KeylessEntry]

Duncan or Shaq.

[amfirst]

If he wins this year and play at a high level as he does for a few more years than yes he is the player of the decade. Timmy and Shaq are fading fast before the decade ends.

Two more rings will make him greater than Shaq and Duncan.

[amfirst]

Randomly...but the proof is there...

Kobe has been a Top 3-7 Player in the League at his peek which is now in the 2000s while Shaq has been a Top 1 Many Years...Including the 2000s era

Same with Duncan and Garnett

Garnett surpasses Kobe in Most Areas Clearly especially Impact and All Around Game Wise...

These 3 Are Where Clearly Better than Kobe


Garnett shouldn't even be in this conversation. He only has one ring, as the number two guy. Kobe has three of those and a more successful career.

[Roundball_Rock]

By your logic, a player who wins a chip in 2000, 01, 02, 03, AND 04 and then retires wouldn't be eligible for all decade because 2000-2004 isn't the majority of a decade. Sheesh.

Can you be MVP of a season if you play only half the season? If we are just looking at peaks of players in the 2000s then T Mac, Webber, and AI have to enter the discussion .

[Disaprine]

nah, shaq is still the man this decade, kobe might tie up tim duncan.
off topic here.... so i was reading through this tread and i found out a certain retard has been banned :hammertime:

[D-Rose]

Bruce got banned :oldlol:

PB next?

[catch24]

Shaq/Duncan = still the best

[VCMVP1551]

Can you be MVP of a season if you play only half the season?

Yep, just ask Bill Walton


If we are just looking at peaks of players in the 2000s then T Mac, Webber, and AI have to enter the discussion.

It's obvious that none of those guys had peaks comparable to Shaq or Duncan. But in the end it's not just peak, that's part of it but so are accomplishments. Shaq is the most accomplished as far as winning championships/winning championships as the best player this decade. Duncan won 3 as the best part this decade, but Shaq gets the nod in the championship category because he won another as the 2nd option and he got there again as the best player(2004).

[plowking]

If he wins this year and play at a high level as he does for a few more years than yes he is the player of the decade. Timmy and Shaq are fading fast before the decade ends.

Two more rings will make him greater than Shaq and Duncan.

It may make him greater in terms of accomplishments and all time list, though the fact is Kobe has never had a season as good as Shaq's best.

[BallPhunk]

I think there are two different arguments.

Most now seem to be debating who is the BEST player of the decade.

In the first post, it was:

If Kobe wins this year, he is the player and the face of this decade of basketball.

You have to streeetch to think of Bryant moving past Shaq for dominance, but I don't think there's any doubt that at the end of the decade, ABC's highlight reel showing the last 10 years will start with Bryant.

He will be the media's choice for the face of the decade (and it's theirs for better or worse).

[Killer_Instinct]

Hands down Kobe has been the most skilled, entertaining(debateble), and controversial player this decade. Shaq simply has been dominant, but as far as basketball skills are concerned, Kobe has been second to none. That along with his controversial image/playing style will propel him to the face of this decade. His inhuman scoring binges won't hurt his case, either.

[indiefan23]

If Kobe wins this year, he is the player and the face of this decade of basketball.

Feel free to flame away, but remember, I strongly dislike Kobe (this ain't no love piece), but reality is real and this cannot be denied.

He's the most polarizing and gets the most press, but TD is easily the player of the decade. Player of the decade can't spend 4 years as the number 2 guy on his team, and 3 years on losing/1-3 games over .500 teams. Chauncy Billups and Shaq have better cases for player of the decade then Kobe Bryant, and its not even close.

[Killer_Instinct]

He's the most polarizing and gets the most press, but TD is easily the player of the decade. Player of the decade can't spend 4 years as the number 2 guy on his team, and 3 years on losing/1-3 games over .500 teams. Chauncy Billups and Shaq have better cases for player of the decade then Kobe Bryant, and its not even close.


This is why on ISH you can never have an intelligent, sane conversation about Bryant. Because Chauncey Billups has a case for being remembered MORE than Kobe Bryant a decade from now. Chauncey is on TD, Shaq, level. I feel so enlightned.

[guy]

If we're talking about player of the decade, its Shaq, regardless of what happens in this year's Finals. However, Kobe will clearly be the face of this decade in the media's eyes. IMO, no matter what happens, Kobe is the 3rd best player of this decade behind Shaq and Duncan. Shaq has just not been that good for the past few years. He hasn't been a top 10 player since probably 2006. Duncan is just too boring to the media and general population. With Kobe this decade, we have seen feuds with teammates and coaches, off-the-court problems (rape allegations), trade demands, amazing record-breaking scoring games, scoring titles, comparisons to Jordan, championships, gold medals, etc. there has been a million different things to talk about with this guy. He has been a wet dream for the media, and I'm sure they want nothing more then to see Kobe cap off the decade with his 1st championship as the best player.

[indiefan23]

If we're talking about player of the decade, its Shaq, regardless of what happens in this year's Finals. However, Kobe will clearly be the face of this decade in the media's eyes. IMO, no matter what happens, Kobe is the 3rd best player of this decade behind Shaq and Duncan. Shaq has just not been that good for the past few years. He hasn't been a top 10 player since probably 2006. Duncan is just too boring to the media and general population. With Kobe this decade, we have seen feuds with teammates and coaches, off-the-court problems (rape allegations), trade demands, amazing record-breaking scoring games, scoring titles, comparisons to Jordan, championships, gold medals, etc. there has been a million different things to talk about with this guy. He has been a wet dream for the media, and I'm sure they want nothing more then to see Kobe cap off the decade with his 1st championship as the best player.

I dunno man, Kobe is polarizing. I think he's th emost contraversial player but face of the decade? I doubt it. He's going to end up as the guy who good but not as good as those before him, MJ, and those after, Lebron and maybe durant whoever else. The brighter Lebron's star shines the dimmer Kobe's will. Kobe is never going to be mentioned without Shaq and thats been set in stone for ages now. I mean, common guys, lets face it, the 00's have been the most depressing era of basketball since the 1950's. It stank in a mire of mediocre talent, scandals all time low interest. People are not going to look favorably on any of it as it gets swept between the Jordan era and the Bron era. No one will care about the last 10 years too much cuz much better things happened before and after it. How is that not truth?

[indiefan23]

This is why on ISH you can never have an intelligent, sane conversation about Bryant. Because Chauncey Billups has a case for being remembered MORE than Kobe Bryant a decade from now. Chauncey is on TD, Shaq, level. I feel so enlightned.

Remembered no, but he was more successful. How many losing teams was he on, how many times did he get swept or 4-1'ed out of the playoffs, and how many times did he go out in the first round? Someone said Kobe was player of the decade and to be that guy, you can't spend 7 of 10 years as second fiddle and losing. Its a well duh type of thing. enlightenment: check!

[Peter Griffin]

I dunno man, Kobe is polarizing. I think he's th emost contraversial player but face of the decade? I doubt it. He's going to end up as the guy who good but not as good as those before him, MJ, and those after, Lebron and maybe durant whoever else. The brighter Lebron's star shines the dimmer Kobe's will. Kobe is never going to be mentioned without Shaq and thats been set in stone for ages now. I mean, common guys, lets face it, the 00's have been the most depressing era of basketball since the 1950's. It stank in a mire of mediocre talent, scandals all time low interest. People are not going to look favorably on any of it as it gets swept between the Jordan era and the Bron era. No one will care about the last 10 years too much cuz much better things happened before and after it. How is that not truth?

Kobe is more known than LeBron by a long shot! And at this time we speak, Kobe isn't dimmering under LeBron's light! Whats your IQ if I may ask? You seem kind of~~~dumb!

[guy]

I dunno man, Kobe is polarizing. I think he's th emost contraversial player but face of the decade? I doubt it. He's going to end up as the guy who good but not as good as those before him, MJ, and those after, Lebron and maybe durant whoever else. The brighter Lebron's star shines the dimmer Kobe's will. Kobe is never going to be mentioned without Shaq and thats been set in stone for ages now. I mean, common guys, lets face it, the 00's have been the most depressing era of basketball since the 1950's. It stank in a mire of mediocre talent, scandals all time low interest. People are not going to look favorably on any of it as it gets swept between the Jordan era and the Bron era. No one will care about the last 10 years too much cuz much better things happened before and after it. How is that not truth?

Even if you think the 00s have been that bad, how is that relevant to what wer'e talking about? Kobe will still be the face of this decade. There's been nobody covered as much as he has been for the whole decade. Shaq was for the first half of the decade, and Lebron has been for the second half of the decade, but neither have been for the whole decade. There's no denying that.

[Peter Griffin]

Remembered no, but he was more successful. How many losing teams was he on, how many times did he get swept or 4-1'ed out of the playoffs, and how many times did he go out in the first round? Someone said Kobe was player of the decade and to be that guy, you can't spend 7 of 10 years as second fiddle and losing. Its a well duh type of thing. enlightenment: check!

:lol This guy is not smart~~not smart at all! Do you know when someone say's Jordan's name, Kobe's name comes up right after? He's been to 6 finals in 10yrs, and Finals games are on national T.V. He has scored 81pts in a game, and he also plays for the most Famous Franchise in NBA history! He will have the most all defensive teams, all nba teams, and on and on! Holy crap something is wrong with you!

This reminds me off the time I was a substitute special ed teacher, and the only way I could get the students attention was to flash a flashlight on the board!

[Killer_Instinct]

Remembered no, but he was more successful. How many losing teams was he on, how many times did he get swept or 4-1'ed out of the playoffs, and how many times did he go out in the first round? Someone said Kobe was player of the decade and to be that guy, you can't spend 7 of 10 years as second fiddle and losing. Its a well duh type of thing. enlightenment: check!


:lol

Silly me. And here I was thinking Three Championships were greater than One.

What the hell is my problem? Don't do this to yourself.

Is a NBA championship NOT what makes a player successful in the NBA? Does Kobe have more than Billups? Either you are a dumbass, or an ill-informed idiot. Take your pick.

Billups has won NOTHING since the 04 championship.

Kobe has won a League MVP, with possibly a Finals MVP. 2 Scoring Titles. Numerous All D-O 1st Teams. CHAUNCEY BILLUPS is MORE SUCCESSFUL than KOBE BRYANT?

[AirJordan23]

Man, I'm probably one of the biggest fans of Chauncey on this board but it's utter BS to even think that he has a case over Kobe for player of the decade. Chauncey has 2 finals appearances to Kobe's 6. Kobe has an MVP, possibly a Finals MVP, 6 finals appearances, possibly 4 championships, several all nba and all defensive teams and several 50 point games.

And to me, there is literally no difference in losing in the first round or losing in the conference finals. The ultimate goal is to WIN, not to make deep post season runs but come up short. Sure thing, it feels better to make a deeper run but in the end you come up short.

[cotdt]

And to me, there is literally no difference in losing in the first round or losing in the conference finals. The ultimate goal is to WIN, not to make deep post season runs but come up short. Sure thing, it feels better to make a deeper run but in the end you come up short.

There is a big difference in how far your team gets into the playoffs. Not only is there a lot of money involved, but the players want to actually beat as many teams as they can. It's called winning. Just ask Yao Ming or Carmelo how great it felt to get out of the first round this postseason.

[AirJordan23]

There is a big difference in how far your team gets into the playoffs. Not only is there a lot of money involved, but the players want to actually beat as many teams as they can. It's called winning. Just ask Yao Ming or Carmelo how great it felt to get out of the first round this postseason.
I was talkin in the sense of achieving something. Of course you get a lotta money but either scenario (first round exit/conference finals exit) would make you want a championship more, more firepower and that hunger to win. It just gives a better feeling to lose in the second round rather than first but in terms of achievement they're pretty much the same.

[cdbleb]

There is a big difference in how far your team gets into the playoffs. Not only is there a lot of money involved, but the players want to actually beat as many teams as they can. It's called winning. Just ask Yao Ming or Carmelo how great it felt to get out of the first round this postseason.

Theres also a big difference between what matters to the fans/media and what matters to players. Everyone knows that Jordan won 6 Finals but without looking when was the first year he made it out of the first round?

I bet you peeked.

[Cangri]

It goes like this:

1-Duncan/Shaq
2-Duncan/Shaq

3- Kobe

But the Kobe groupies will continue to talk BS every chance they get.

[Peter Griffin]

Theres also a big difference between what matters to the fans/media and what matters to players. Everyone knows that Jordan won 6 Finals but without looking when was the first year he made it out of the first round?

I bet you peeked.

Well, we all know he never made it out of the 1st round without Pippen! Hey!

[Clifton]

If you have to assign a guy to personify this decade, Kobe is definitely the guy. When people talk about the 00s they will be talking about Kobe. When he wasn't advancing deep in the playoffs, (6 finals appearances in 10 years), he was setting all kinds of scoring records. Like it or not he's the most talked about, polarizing figure. He'll have 4 rings in 10 years. Etc. This is what people will remember.

And also, I think it's safe to say he's defined this decade. People don't yell Duncan when throw stuff in trashcans. Even if they bank it off the wall. They yell Kobe. People watch and impersonate: Kobe.

[Indian guy]

Fans who've actually lived through this decade will likely put Kobe's face when talking about the 00's because he's been the biggest star and the 3rd most successful player. But what about those who didn't? They will only look at the bottom line - the championships, the MVPs and the finals MVPs. Shaq and Duncan easily outnumber Kobe on those. Fans aren't stupid. They'll look at the accolades and numbers and come to the obvious conclusion that Shaq and TD were the best players of the decade. They have won 8 of the last 10 championships, and were best players on 7 of those teams. Kobe will always play 2nd fiddle to them for the decade. 10 years down the road nobody's going to care about 81, the 40 point streak or the 50 point streak. They'll care about titles, MVPs and who the best player was on the teams that won the title. Barkley got 10x more fanfare than Hakeem in the 90's. Guess who's consider the better player today though?

[Roundball_Rock]

Ten years from now Kobe>Shaq/Duncan on the all-time lists. No one will care about cherry picking a ten year span. They will look at the total record.

[Stringer Bell]

https://teentalk.wikispaces.com/file/view/Tim_Duncan.jpg

http://rsrc7.bubbleshare.com/media/00/1a/b4/e6/0d556d4843cdcc64880c5cbac5c62db5fd9c2bbb/268x201/KobeandShaq_268x201.jpg

[Ruslan`]

shaq and duncan >>>>

shaq
duncan
kobe

[Abraham Lincoln]

Ten years from now Kobe>Shaq/Duncan on the all-time lists. No one will care about cherry picking a ten year span. They will look at the total record.
No chance.

[Noob Saibot]

yep, Shaq and Duncan were the best. Kobe is a lock for 3. but i could make a case for Kevin Garnett and Allen Iverson, but those 2 weren't as lucky as Kobe as far as accolades go.

[D-Rose]

No chance.
:roll:

I can agree if you say not likely...but no chance? Kobe can win more titles and MVP with this team.

[JustinJDW]

Most popular person of the Decade? Sure.

The Best Player of the Decade? Hell to the No! That spot is reserved for one of two people. Shaq, or Timmy, period. There is no way to justify anyone being ahead of those as not only the Best Player of the Decade, but the Best Player since Jordan. Shaq and Timmy have dominated the last Decade.

Shaq and Timmy combined have won 8 out of the last 10 Championships.

That statement alone should put an end to all this Kobe talk, but I am sure that isn't enough for all the Kobe nutriders.

Let's not forget about how Timmy is undefeated in the Finals. 4-0 *****es. Kobe has this reputation of not coming through in the Finals. He is 3-2 in the Finals. He even nearly got sweeped 4-1 by the Pistons. Then the Spurs came around, and what did they do? They won another ring, beating that same Pistons Team in the Finals.

Let's also not forgot about Kobe getting Shaq out of L.A., and then Shaq still winning another Ring in Miami. What was Kobe doing? He was having Losing Seasons with the Lakers. Unlike Kobe, Timmy has always been on Top. Timmy has made the Playoffs every single Season in his Career.

Winning 3 Rings riding on Shaq's nuts, and then winning one at the end of the Decade does not make you best the Player of the Decade. Shaq and Timmy have both won multiple Championships as the #1 Option. Yes, that means a lot.

Looking at the facts, I think it's pretty clear that Shaq/Timmy are the best Players of the Decade and since Jordan. Not Kobe.

[D-Rose]

Most popular person of the Decade? Sure.

The Best Player of the Decade? Hell to the No! That spot is reserved for one of two people. Shaq, or Timmy, period. There is no way to justify anyone being ahead of those as not only the Best Player of the Decade, but the Best Player since Jordan. Shaq and Timmy have dominated the last Decade.

Shaq and Timmy combined have won 8 out of the last 10 Championships

That statement alone should put an end to all this Kobe talk. Winning 3 Rings riding on Shaq's nuts, and then winning one at the end of the Decade does not make you best the Player of the Decade. Shaq and Timmy have both won multiple Championships as the #1 Option. Yes, that means a lot.

Besides, Kobe lucked out with KG's and Yao's injuries.

Very debatable.

Lakers were 2-0 vs Boston this year (both games with KG). We broke their 19 and 12 game win streaks.

Also LA would have HCA.

Rockets got better spacing for Brooks when Yao was out. Lakers were up 2-1 when Yao was in and actually respected the Rockets at the time. LA was 6-1 for the year against Yao-Rockets.

Not saying LA would beat Boston or Houston but your points are very debatable.

[Abraham Lincoln]

:roll:

I can agree if you say not likely...but no chance? Kobe can win more titles and MVP with this team.
OK not likely. But Shaq in top form in 2000 be superior to Bryant in top form.

[JustinJDW]

Besides, Kobe lucked out with KG's and Yao's injuries.


Very debatable.

Lakers were 2-0 vs Boston this year (both games with KG). We broke their 19 and 12 game win streaks.

Also LA would have HCA.

Rockets got better spacing for Brooks when Yao was out. Lakers were up 2-1 when Yao was in and actually respected the Rockets at the time. LA was 6-1 for the year against Yao-Rockets.

Not saying LA would beat Boston or Houston but your points are very debatable.Yeah, I didn't really mean that, it just came to me in a rush while I was typing this up. You are right, that point is very debatable.

:cheers:

[Roundball_Rock]

ecade.

Shaq and Timmy combined have won 8 out of the last 10 Championships.


Rings

Kobe 4 (likely)
Shaq 4
Duncan 4 (3 in the 2000s)

NBA Finals

Kobe 6
Shaq 5
Duncan 4

MVP's

Duncan 2
Kobe 1
Shaq 1

Scoring titles

Kobe 2
Shaq 2 (only 1 in the 2000s)
Duncan 0

And Kobe has an excellent chance at another ring next season; Shaq has no realistic chance and Duncan is unlikely to win it. The Lakers will enter next season as the favorites in the West, regardless of what happens with Orlando. With respect to the other accomplishments, Kobe will be an MVP contender again next year. Duncan and Shaq's MVP level years are over; Shaq is barely an all-star now. Kobe, if the Lakers win this year, has a case over them but with more accomplishments he will clearly be above them.

[Myth]

You can make a case for Duncan or Kobe, I'm fine with either one. I'd probably go with Duncan at the moment. But what has Shaq done since winning the title in 06?

07- first round exit (swept by Bulls)
08- first round exit (in 5 games to the Spurs)
09- failed to make the playoffs

Shaq might've been the face of the first 6 years of the decade though.

Didn't Kobe have a rough 3 year stretch too where he got eliminated twice in the 1st round and once didn't make the playoffs? :confusedshrug:

[cdbleb]

Rings

Kobe 4 (likely)
Shaq 4
Duncan 4 (3 in the 2000s)

NBA Finals

Kobe 6
Shaq 5
Duncan 4

MVP's

Duncan 2
Kobe 1
Shaq 1

Scoring titles

Kobe 2
Shaq 2 (only 1 in the 2000s)
Duncan 0

And Kobe has an excellent chance at another ring next season; Shaq has no realistic chance and Duncan is unlikely to win it. The Lakers will enter next season as the favorites in the West, regardless of what happens with Orlando. With respect to the other accomplishments, Kobe will be an MVP contender again next year. Duncan and Shaq's MVP level years are over; Shaq is barely an all-star now. Kobe, if the Lakers win this year, has a case over them but with more accomplishments he will clearly be above them.

Finals MVPs are irrelevant now?

[JustinJDW]

Rings

Kobe 4 (likely)
Shaq 4
Duncan 4 (3 in the 2000s)

NBA Finals

Kobe 6
Shaq 5
Duncan 4

MVP's

Duncan 2
Kobe 1
Shaq 1

Scoring titles

Kobe 2
Shaq 2 (only 1 in the 2000s)
Duncan 0

And Kobe has an excellent chance at another ring next season; Shaq has no realistic chance and Duncan is unlikely to win it. The Lakers will enter next season as the favorites in the West, regardless of what happens with Orlando. With respect to the other accomplishments, Kobe will be an MVP contender again next year. Duncan and Shaq's MVP level years are over; Shaq is barely an all-star now. Kobe, if the Lakers win this year, has a case over them but with more accomplishments he will clearly be above them.

- Timmy's 3 Rings as the #1 Option > Kobe 3 Rings as #2 Option and possibly 1 Ring as #1 Option.

- Timmy's 4-0 Undefeated Record in the Finals > Kobe's 3-2 Record in the Finals.

- Timmy's 3 Finals MVP's > Kobe's 0 Finals MVP.

- Timmy's 2 Regular Season MVP > Kobe's 1 Regular Season MVP.

Stop trying to manipulate the facts.

[D-Rose]

Didn't Kobe have a rough 3 year stretch too where he got eliminated twice in the 1st round and once didn't make the playoffs? :confusedshrug:
All 3 of those teams were better than the Smush-Kwame Lakers.

[cdbleb]

All 3 of those teams were better than the Smush-Kwame Lakers.

Neither one of those guys were there when LA failed to make the playoffs

[Burgz]

of the 9 NBA titles so far this decade there are 7 between shaq and duncan (8 if you wanna include 1999 for all intents and purposes) and 8 finals appearances
how can you consider kobe the greatest of the decade if he's only won 1 as the man on a squad?
tim duncan and shaq dominated this decade, this should be a no brainer
youre either 10 years old, or have a very short memory (as do many of our fellow ISHers apparently :rolleyes: )

[D-Rose]

Neither one of those guys were there when LA failed to make the playoffs
We didn't have Phil. That team wasn't any better either?

[boojitede]

Negative:rolleyes:

[cdbleb]

We didn't have Phil. That team wasn't any better either?

You didnt have Shaq either...

[Roundball_Rock]

Finals MVPs are irrelevant now?

In my book they are of minor importance, especially regarding the early 2000s when it was common knowledge that the real comp was in the West and that the real champion was determined in the WCF. The Sixers would barely make the playoffs in the West, the 02' Nets would have maybe slid in as the #8 seed. The actual #8 seed in the West had roughly the same winning percentage (I think it was 65% for the Nets and 63% for the 8th place team) against the East. Unfortunately, they played in the West and got the 8th seed while the Nets cruised to the finals in a joke conference.

Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Joe Dumars, James Worthy, and Cedric Maxwell all have finals MVP's. Only first-tier players (i.e. top 5 players) win season MVP's, though. There is also more politics involved in assessing such a small sample of games. The most recent and most dramatic games tend to be given disproportionate weight. Look at Kareem vs. Magic in the 1980 finals vote. 82 games allow for a more sober assessment.


Stop trying to manipulate the facts.


- Timmy's 3 Rings as the #1 Option > Kobe 3 Rings as #2 Option and possibly 1 Ring as #1 Option.

That is not manipulating the facts? Without Kobe those teams would not have won any titles. You cannot use the #2 card against him when no one cared about that with Magic's 5 rings. Should we put a retroactive asterisk by 3 of his rings?

The things you listed are why Duncan is considered by most people to be higher than Kobe on the all-time lists. However, Duncan's MVP level days are over (he received only 0.002% of the MVP this year, 2% the previous year). Maybe he will win another ring but that does not seem likely in the coming years and Duncan has only a few years left in the tank. His team will continue to decline as he continues to decline. I don't see Duncan improving his all-time ranking. Kobe has a shot to win more rings, more MVP's, add more all-NBA first teams, etc. He even has an outside shot at another scoring title if LeBron and Wade get some offensive help and hence shoot less than they currently do.

[D-Rose]

You didnt have Shaq either...
No kidding. Mihm :banghead:

[Roundball_Rock]

of the 9 NBA titles so far this decade there are 7 between shaq and duncan (8 if you wanna include 1999 for all intents and purposes) and 8 finals appearances

It looks like Kobe will have 4 championships in 10 years and 6 finals appearances. That is a big reason why he is in the discussion. One could also say that between Kobe and Duncan they account for 8 (probably 9) of the championships since 1999 and 11 finals appearances.

Shaq has not been a top ten player since 2005. How can he then be the player of the decade? When people talk of the players of the 80's they talk about Magic, Bird, Jordan, and Isiah. Jordan usually loses because he only played half the decade. Notice who is missing from the discussion: Kareem! Kareem is similar to Shaq in that he won numerous championships in that decade but age caused him to tail off in the second half of the decade. Yet we don't see Kareem in the "best of the 80's" discussion. Why the double standard? Oh yeah...

[catquickspider]

- Timmy's 3 Rings as the #1 Option > Kobe 3 Rings as #2 Option and possibly 1 Ring as #1 Option.

- Timmy's 4-0 Undefeated Record in the Finals > Kobe's 3-2 Record in the Finals.

- Timmy's 3 Finals MVP's > Kobe's 0 Finals MVP.

- Timmy's 2 Regular Season MVP > Kobe's 1 Regular Season MVP.

Stop trying to manipulate the facts.

add the fact that the spurs had no competition in the finals other than the pistons
taking advantage of watered down league years

nm, he couldn't even take advantage of teams such as the mavs in 2006 (perennial losers)

2003 and 2005 were impressive though

[Roundball_Rock]

Plus don't forget that without Cheap Shot Rob the Spurs lose in the WCSF in 2007. We can add qualifiers to anything. It makes more sense to note the weak comp the Spurs had in 1999, 2007 as well as the Cheap Shot Rob incident than claim a 29 ppg scorer's championship does not count because some guy on the same team scored a mere extra point per game. :oldlol:

[Allstar24]

Didn't Kobe have a rough 3 year stretch too where he got eliminated twice in the 1st round and once didn't make the playoffs? :confusedshrug:
Yes the first year after Shaq left, Kobe was injured and didn't make the playoffs. But the next couple of seasons was when he became recognized as arguably the best player in the league because of his many individual accomplishments. As far as team success goes, you can't get too far when you have to play with the likes of Smush, Kwame and Brian Cook...Shaq was surrounded by much better teams. But after 06, he completely fell off the map.

[shrempf_on_rice]

If he had won as the first option last year plus this year then you'd have an argument. But there's also a good chance if the Lakers win this year and again in 2010 with Kobe being the first option he may very well be the player of this decade.

[Roundball_Rock]

What is with this "first option"/"second option" thing?

Here is a comparison between the playoff ppgs of Shaq and Kobe.

2000

Shaq 31 led league
Kobe 21

Difference: -10

2001

Shaq 30
Kobe 29

Difference: -1

2002

Shaq 29 (28.5)
Kobe 27

Difference: -1.5

2003

Kobe 32 led league
Shaq 27

Difference: +5

2004

Kobe 25 (24.5)
Shaq 22 (21.5)

Difference: +3

Scoring 1-1.5 ppg more="carrying"?

Note: the second option Kobe eclipsed the first option Shaq in FGA by 2001.

[plowking]

What is with this "first option"/"second option" thing?

Here is a comparison between the playoff ppgs of Shaq and Kobe.

2000

Shaq 31 led league
Kobe 21

Difference: -10

2001

Shaq 30
Kobe 29

Difference: -1

2002

Shaq 29 (28.5)
Kobe 27

Difference: -1.5

2003

Kobe 32 led league
Shaq 27

Difference: +5

2004

Kobe 25 (24.5)
Shaq 22 (21.5)

Difference: +3

Scoring 1-1.5 ppg more="carrying"?

Note: the second option Kobe eclipsed the first option Shaq in FGA by 2001.

Did you notice when they started losing? Did you mention the change in Kobe's FG% during those years?

He wasn't carried, but Kobe should have kept going to Shaq.

[Dbrog]

Plus don't forget that without Cheap Shot Rob the Spurs lose in the WCSF in 2007. We can add qualifiers to anything. It makes more sense to note the weak comp the Spurs had in 1999, 2007 as well as the Cheap Shot Rob incident than claim a 29 ppg scorer's championship does not count because some guy on the same team scored a mere extra point per game. :oldlol:

Don't forget if Fish was actually called for the shot clock violation in 2002, the Spurs would go on to win that year. Lakers had weak competition by your standards in 2000 and 2001 too. This whole argument is complete BS. The fact is no one knows what would have happened in either situation due to butterfly effect. Point being: STFU hater

[Doranku]

Did you notice when they started losing? Did you mention the change in Kobe's FG% during those years?

He wasn't carried, but Kobe should have kept going to Shaq.

^^ This.

[Renegar]

Kobe Bryant is one of the top 5 players of all time already. He will be in the top 3 without any doubt after the Lakers are done 4 - 0 with the Magic in this series.

[RoundBall]

OFFTOPIC: but is Kobe not allowed to inbound the ball after a basket has been made? Why do players switch sides after the first shot of the freethrow. And where can I find information on how trading works, ie do you have to match salaries etc etc.

[bruceblitz]

No way is Kobe the player of this decade.

Tim Duncan and Shaq are. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

[seanlakers]

Let's pretend there is a "Player of the Decade award".

By accolades alone it isn't Kobe. It could have been, but it isn't. It's either TD or Shaq. Doesn't mean they are more talented or smarter or better looking or anything of the sort. They just have done more in the decade. Next decade? Who knows.

I'd spend more time on the topic if the award existed. But it doesn't. It's mythical. It doesn't matter.

Players want championships, not imaginary gold plastic player of the year trophies from the local sports enthusiast store.

[Fatal9]

In my book they are of minor importance, especially regarding the early 2000s when it was common knowledge that the real comp was in the West and that the real champion was determined in the WCF. The Sixers would barely make the playoffs in the West, the 02' Nets would have maybe slid in as the #8 seed. The actual #8 seed in the West had roughly the same winning percentage (I think it was 65% for the Nets and 63% for the 8th place team) against the East. Unfortunately, they played in the West and got the 8th seed while the Nets cruised to the finals in a joke conference.

Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Joe Dumars, James Worthy, and Cedric Maxwell all have finals MVP's. Only first-tier players (i.e. top 5 players) win season MVP's, though. There is also more politics involved in assessing such a small sample of games. The most recent and most dramatic games tend to be given disproportionate weight. Look at Kareem vs. Magic in the 1980 finals vote. 82 games allow for a more sober assessment.





That is not manipulating the facts? Without Kobe those teams would not have won any titles. You cannot use the #2 card against him when no one cared about that with Magic's 5 rings. Should we put a retroactive asterisk by 3 of his rings?

The things you listed are why Duncan is considered by most people to be higher than Kobe on the all-time lists. However, Duncan's MVP level days are over (he received only 0.002% of the MVP this year, 2% the previous year). Maybe he will win another ring but that does not seem likely in the coming years and Duncan has only a few years left in the tank. His team will continue to decline as he continues to decline. I don't see Duncan improving his all-time ranking. Kobe has a shot to win more rings, more MVP's, add more all-NBA first teams, etc. He even has an outside shot at another scoring title if LeBron and Wade get some offensive help and hence shoot less than they currently do.
Excellent post & reasoning :applause:

[bruceblitz]

Let's pretend there is a "Player of the Decade award".

By accolades alone it isn't Kobe. It could have been, but it isn't. It's either TD or Shaq. Doesn't mean they are more talented or smarter or better looking or anything of the sort. They just have done more in the decade. Next decade? Who knows.

I'd spend more time on the topic if the award existed. But it doesn't. It's mythical. It doesn't matter.

Players want championships, not imaginary gold plastic player of the year trophies from the local sports enthusiast store.
As long as the Lakers don't pull an 06 Mavs impersonation, this will be Kobe's first ring as the undisputed leader.

Now this thread is exactly what I'm talking about when I say Kobe's overrated. He's finally getting a ring as the undisputed leader of his team, and you people want to call that player of the decade material?

Facts:

Scoring titles - Iverson owns 4, T-Mac owns 2, Kobe 2, LeBron 1, Wade 1

So, he's not the most dominant scorer for sure.

MVP's - Nash 2, Dirk 1, KG 1, Duncan 2, Shaq 1, LeBron 1, Kobe 1, Iverson 1
Looks like a pretty balanced "decade" to me.

Finals MVP's - Shaq 3, Duncan 3, Billups 1, D Wade 1, Tony Parker 1, Paul Pierce 1

So, for the FINAL breakdown:

#1) Duncan - 5 combined MVP awards in the regular season/Finals
#2) Shaq - 4 combined MVP awards in the regular season/Finals
#3) (this is where debate begins, spots #1 and #2 are not up for debate with true observers)

So the #3 candidates:

Dwyane Wade - 1 scoring title, 1 Finals MVP
Kobe Bryant - 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, working on his 1st Finals MVP
Iverson - 4 scoring titles, 1 MVP
KG - 1 MVP, defensive player of the year award winner

For me I would probably go:

Duncan, Shaq, Kobe (as long as the Lakers hold on), Wade, Iverson, KG, LeBron

Even though LeBron has dominated this decade from an all-around numbers standpoint, there are players who were in their primes and put the league on blast.

Again, to re-state:

#1) Duncan
#2) Shaq
#3) Kobe
#4) Wade
#5) Iverson
#6) KG
#7) LeBron
#8) Tony Parker
#9) Chauncey
#10) T-Mac/Dirk(Dirk could be ranked a little higher, depending on your view of the other players)

Something like that would seem appropriate.

[Sir Charles]

[QUOTE=BallPhunk]For someone complaining that others don't know the game, you did a questionable job of Garnett vs Kobe.

I've added a bit (mine are in black :lol )


Doesn't the best player usually win MVP?

MVP = Most Valueable Player Not Best Player :hammerhead:

Sometimes The Best Player Gets the MVP...Sometimes Not...


What? Since when is Garnett considered anywhere near a SF? Never.

He is a Versatile Player capable of playing SF-PF and FC and did play at SF for some seasons such as Barkley from 1989-91.

2nd greatest shooting guard of all time (some argue West is 2nd, still)

I never said Second Greatest SG I said "Second or Third 1 on 1 Shooting Skill Wise SG of All Time"

But has 3 championships and played a big role in getting them, and is close to winning one as the best player (something KG has never done ;-) )

That is Good for Kobe is a Great Player a Top 25-30 of All Time :applause:

Garnett was the Best Player in the Celtics RUn in 2009. He wasn`t the leading Scorer or Clutch Shooter but he HAD THE OVERAL BEST IMPACT AND ALL AROUND GAME: YEARS ago Barkely said there are ONLY 3 SUPERSTARS IN THE LEAGUE:

Strange that the Stats evidence this huh?

You Dumb Blind Kobe Fans Think that Being the Best Player is "Being a Clutch Shooter and Volume Scorer" :no: :rolleyes:

THERE ARE MORE SKILLS AND WAYS OF IMPACT THAN HAVING A "1 ON 1 GREAT SHOOTING SILKY SMOOTH TOUCH AND FADEAWAY"..REALLY, THERE IS... REALLY... :cheers:

No Wonder You Can`t Tell the Difference of Impact Between Players becaue "YOU SEE THE GAME FROM 1 POSITION (SG)" (JORDAN`S FAULT OFCOURSE)...:confusedshrug:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2008.html

2007-08 Boston Celtics Roster and Statistics
Franchise Index: Previous Season ▪ Next Season

Season PER:

Garnett: 25.3

Pierece: 19.6
Ray Allen: 16.4
Rondo: 15.6


Play-Offs PER:

Garnett: 23.0

Pierece: 17.4
Ray Allen: 14.9




?? O'reilly? KG didn't have the best team last year? (as did all the others?


:no:

He Was in One of the Deepest Teams (Today: Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Magic, Nuggets) but not the Best Starting Lineup.

The Lakers have the Best Starting Line Up by MILES

He Was Ine One of the Best 4 Teams.... :confusedshrug:

*Bryant is Quite Lucky Garnett did not play in the play-offs for the Celtics whom couldn`t get to the ECF because they had no Garnett

*So much for idiots that say Pierce is Better than Garnett when PER; EFF and All Statistical Breakdown Stats of IMPACTS Say the Contrary...The evidence at hand.


Your selective stats aside, Kobe will clearly be considered a greater player than Garnett (the only one of the 4 that was occasionally afraid to take the last possession, and the only one of the 4 that wasn't a "go-to-guy" in the 4thE quarter of the championship team[s]).

I don`t go by what the media and the fans want to determine a Great Player i go by Efficiency and Impact = Reality and that even goes BEYOND BROKEN DOWN STATS (CLOSEST TO REALITY) but by also the LEVEL OF TEAMATES this Dude Had IN HIS PRIME and THOSE PLAYERS PRIME etc..

Kevin Garnett Has Been Clearly a Superior All Around Player and Better Impact-Efficiency Player than Kobe

Better: Passer, Rebounder, Interior Defender, Exterior Defender (capable of guarding some Cs, Pfs, SFs), 1 on 1 Defender and as Good as Volume Scorer and Superior Efficiency Scorer FG%

He is not a "Better Clutch Scorer" but that is 1 thing over the many Skill that Garnett has over Kobe

He simply is the BETTER PLAYER and has been.

Garnetts Impact:

Defensive Rating

2003-04 NBA 91.6 (3)
2004-05 NBA 98.7 (8)
2005-06 NBA 98.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 93.8 (1)
2008-09 NBA 97.5 (2)
Active 99.3 (7)

Player Efficiency Rating

1999-00 NBA 23.6 (7)
2000-01 NBA 23.9 (8)
2001-02 NBA 23.8 (6)
2002-03 NBA 26.4 (4)
2003-04 NBA 29.4 (1)
2004-05 NBA 28.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 26.8 (5)
2006-07 NBA 24.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 25.3 (4)
Active 23.8 (5)


All Kobe Fans do to measure a Player`s Level is

"CLUTCH SHOOTING and NICE LOOKING 1 ON 1 SHOOTING FADEWAYS OR PURE SHOOTING"

That is my friend 1 or 2 of the 100s of Facetes and Skills and Forms of Impact a The Game has

There Really is More SKills and Ways of Impact, Really
There Really is More Positions than a SG :cheers:

*Jordan destroyed Real NBA Fans because he DOMINATED ALL SKILLS AND IMPACTED AGAINST ALL from the SG Spot..Something that had Never Been Done, Will Never Be Done Probably and Now Stern a Desesperation (after MJ retired) to keep that MJ Spirtin Alive Trying to Force The Creation of False New Jordan at all cost: making it easier for Perimeter Players (more Marketable Game than the Inside Game ofcourse = a Lost Art In Todays Game) so that they can have a similar Impact and guess what? THEY STILL CANT!!!!!!!!!!

* Kobe ofcourse the victim of this comparission and hype but its not his fault he is a great player

Just not in the level of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron...soon Wade

he is more in the Wade-Dirk level...Wade is rising up to the other level soon

PERIOD

END!

SHAQ
DUNCAN
GARNETT
LEBRON

BRYANT-WADE-DIRK...around there....

[The Logo]

END!

SHAQ
DUNCAN
GARNETT
LEBRON

BRYANT-WADE-DIRK...around there....
TROLL.

Garnett?? :roll: He was a perennial loser until he won a ring with the help of 2 future HOFers and he didn't even win finals MVP. All Bryant needed to win a ring (which will happen this year) is a one-time All-star.

LeBron: 0 championships, swept in the finals, doesn't show up in big games, enough said. If he is in the player of the decade list...:roll:

Here's the real list...not that anyone cares. No such thing as the player of the decade exists in the real world. Anyway the real list is:

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Wade
5. Garnett

[Brunch@Five]

1) Shaq
2) Duncan
3) Kobe
4) Garnett
5) Dirk
6) LeBron
7) Wade
8) TMac
9) Nash
10) Pierce

what some people tend to forget: from 2002 to 2004, the undisputed top 5 in the league were

Shaq
Duncan
KG
TMac
Kobe

And this year was the first time this decade neither TMac nor KG were in the top 10.

[lolwut]

Duncan and Shaq are both above Kobe.

[Jacks3]

LOL at anybody who thinks Kobe is above Shaq or Duncan.:lol

[thuggets]

they were. both duncan and shaq's days are over. its the kobe era.

[truethat23]

As far as the face of the league goes, I think right now, currently, its a split between Kobe and Lebron.

As far as player of the decade...

2000-2003 belonged to Shaq

2004-2006 pretty much belonged to Duncan

2007-2009 is a split between Kobe and Lebron

So in my opinion, when you look at who would be player of the decade, you have to decide which players made the greatest impact during their time in this decade. I think when people look back on this decade...lets say five or six years from now, I think it will go down as Shaq/Duncan era, more so Shaq, simply because he was the most dominant, the most popular across multi media outlets and pop culture, and also because he's a winner. Just how many view the 80's as the Bird/Magic era, it will be the same for this decade as well. Kobe won't go unnoticed though and I don't think it will tarnish his legacy at all.

Lebron has the next decade...

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

I know this thread has been beaten to death, but I would have to add:

first half of this decade was Shaq/TD.

second half was all Kobe (those who understand the game realize that Kobe was tremendous in taking 2 scrub teams to the playoffs, and, once he had a decent #2 man, carried them to the Championship, twice. anyone expecting more is dilusional).

thus...a 3-way tie for THIS DECADE...as it stands now...irregardless if Kobe wins this championship.

next up: the battle between DWade, Lebron, and CP3 (and maybe DHoward).

[Brunch@Five]

this decade is really different to the 90's and 80's, as far is them being a different era is concerned.

80's were clearly the Bird/Magic era, with some Zeke in the end. 90's started with MJ winning his first title in '91 and basically ended with his last title in '98. The Duncan/Shaq era started in '99 ended last year when for the first time since '98 no team with either Shaq or Duncan made the finals. Now is pretty much the beginning of the Bron/Dwight etc era, if you like it or not.

Kobe's dilemma in this topic is is that he's most likely part of two eras, the second half of Duncan/Shaq and the first half of Bron/Dwight etc.

[cdbleb]

Player of the decade? NO!

"FACE" of the decade? Maybe.

[bruceblitz]

Player of the decade? NO!

"FACE" of the decade? Maybe.
Kobe Bryant is without question the most popular player of the decade. Without question.

[Roundball_Rock]

this decade is really different to the 90's and 80's, as far is them being a different era is concerned.

80's were clearly the Bird/Magic era, with some Zeke in the end.

Where is Kareem? Kareem in the 80's is similar to Shaq in the 2000s, i.e. a dominant center who won 3 rings in the first half of the decade and then tailed off due to age. Shaq is considered top two in this decade by most. Why is Kareem not even mentioned in the discussion of the player of the 80's?

I do agree with you that Kobe straddles two eras and that 20 years from now no one will care about an arbitrary 10 year period but will compare the total record of Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan. Kobe will be remembered as the best of the trio.


As long as the Lakers don't pull an 06 Mavs impersonation, this will be Kobe's first ring as the undisputed leader.

Now this thread is exactly what I'm talking about when I say Kobe's overrated. He's finally getting a ring as the undisputed leader of his team, and you people want to call that player of the decade material?

Sincerely,

Magic Johnson dated circa late 80's

[cdbleb]

Kobe Bryant is without question the most popular player of the decade. Without question.

I agree, I used "maybe" because of LeBron (looking at it for a long term title). I know he shouldnt be in the discussion but if he goes on to win lets say 5 titles in the next decade he will carry the 2000s along with him kinda like Jordan did when people mention the 80s. Jordans popularity grew tremendously once he started winning and now when talking about the faces of the 80s or 90s Jordans name gets brought up in both even though his commonly known accomplishments came mostly from the 90s (4 of his 5 MVPs, all 6 Finals MVPs, 2 of his 3 All Star MVPs).

[Sir Charles]

Kobe Bryant is without question the most popular player of the decade. Without question.

Exactly Popular Doesn`t = Best :no:

Shaq
Duncan
Garnett

= Best Players of the 2000 Decade by Miles!:violin:

Not Only Statistically but They Lead Have the Superior Impact in EFF, Statistical +/-, PER, DRT, ORT etc

Garnett > Kobe :violin:

You might not like his style of Play because ihe is not a "1 on 1 Perimter Shooter or Clutch Shooter" (in the Era of: " Mr. Stern please help Perimter Play and Creat False Jordan`s, We Kneed Players like Him, Please Help These Low Efficiency % Scorers":oldlol: :rolleyes: ) but its Clear he is Better

BTW....Bryant is lucky the Celtics lost Garnett for the Play-Offs :oldlol:

Period.

:sleeping

[D-Rose]

Exactly Popular Doesn`t = Best :no:

Shaq
Duncan
Garnett

= Best Players of the 2000 Decade by Miles!:violin:

Not Only Statistically but They Lead Have the Superior Impact in EFF, Statistical +/-, PER, DRT, ORT etc

Garnett > Kobe :violin:

You might not like his style of Play because ihe is not a "1 on 1 Perimter Shooter or Clutch Shooter" (in the Era of: " Mr. Stern please help Perimter Play and Creat False Jordan`s, We Kneed Players like Him, Please Help These Low Efficiency % Scorers":oldlol: :rolleyes: ) but its Clear he is Better

BTW....Bryant is lucky the Celtics lost Garnett for the Play-Offs :oldlol:

Period.

:sleeping

Did he say best anywhere? He said most popular. Bruce is a known Kobe-hater, he would never say Kobe and best in the same sentence.

You're an idiot Sir Charles or KG5MVP or whatever.

[D-Rose]

Exactly Popular Doesn`t = Best :no:

Shaq
Duncan
Garnett

= Best Players of the 2000 Decade by Miles!:violin:

Not Only Statistically but They Lead Have the Superior Impact in EFF, Statistical +/-, PER, DRT, ORT etc

Garnett > Kobe :violin:

You might not like his style of Play because ihe is not a "1 on 1 Perimter Shooter or Clutch Shooter" (in the Era of: " Mr. Stern please help Perimter Play and Creat False Jordan`s, We Kneed Players like Him, Please Help These Low Efficiency % Scorers":oldlol: :rolleyes: ) but its Clear he is Better

BTW....Bryant is lucky the Celtics lost Garnett for the Play-Offs :oldlol:

Period.

:sleeping

As for Kobe being lucky Boston lost Garnett?

We beat the Celtics twice this year with Garnett fully healthy including one game without Bynum.

We ended their 19 and 12 game win streaks.

We showed that we were much tougher than in the Finals.

But of course, you wouldn't know any of this because you don't watch games :oldlol:

[KobeRules24]

kobe is not the best player of the decade, Duncan is. Kobe is moving up in the all time rankings though, he will be top 15-17 if he wins finals mvp this season.

[crisoner]

Duncan and Shaq are both above Kobe.

Agreed



I would give the nod to Duncan over Shaq just because Duncan is a class act.

[magi]

kobe is not the best player of the decade, Duncan is. Kobe is moving up in the all time rankings though, he will be top 15-17 if he wins finals mvp this season.

If he doesn't he's already in the top 15 list. If he does, he is 9-12.

[JJ81]

He already is the player of the decade. He's made the finals 50% of the time so far this decade, winning 3 times (4 if the Lakers win this year). And that's just his title success so far, let alone his individual performances.

[bruceblitz]

[QUOTE=magi

[seanlakers]

I wouldn't put Malone or Barkley ahead of Kobe, but other than that, the ranking looks reasonable.

[bruceblitz]

I wouldn't put Malone or Barkley ahead of Kobe, but other than that, the ranking looks reasonable.
Malone was a 2 time MVP and Barkley won an MVP, don't forget, they would have had championships if they didn't run into the Jordan/Pippen show. Two of the most statistically dominating power forwards of all time. Most people would take either guy over Duncan, that's how great they were. As far as all-time legacy is concerned, their legacy doesn't stack up with Duncan though.

[seanlakers]

Malone was a 2 time MVP and Barkley won an MVP, don't forget, they would have had championships if they didn't run into the Jordan/Pippen show. Two of the most statistically dominating power forwards of all time. Most people would take either guy over Duncan, that's how great they were. As far as all-time legacy is concerned, their legacy doesn't stack up with Duncan though.

Like I said everyone has their own preference. Jordan and Pippen smashed a lot of would be legacies though. Personally, I don't bother projecting the would-be's. Both were awesome that's for sure.

[dajadeed]

Malone was a 2 time MVP and Barkley won an MVP, don't forget, they would have had championships if they didn't run into the Jordan/Pippen show. Two of the most statistically dominating power forwards of all time. Most people would take either guy over Duncan, that's how great they were. As far as all-time legacy is concerned, their legacy doesn't stack up with Duncan though.


Titles will put Kobe in the top 10 easily when he's done. If he gets his 4th this year, and goes on to win 1 or 2 more (not unthinkable given the age of the Lakers), then there is no way anyone can deny his rightful place in the top 10 all time.

Dude is only 30.

[bruceblitz]

Titles will put Kobe in the top 10 easily when he's done. If he gets his 4th this year, and goes on to win 1 or 2 more (not unthinkable given the age of the Lakers), then there is no way anyone can deny his rightful place in the top 10 all time.

Dude is only 30.
If that was the case Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would make all-time lists. It's a collection of everything that puts you in the top 10. He's short of that list. For sure.

[goldenryan]

don't laugh but if sheed walace of played to his potential he could of been right up there with duncan,shaq,and kobe. he might of even won as many titles as jordan. but i'll leave it at that cause "almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades."

[Peter Griffin]

Actually folks, Dirk Nowitzski and Yao Ming are the players of this decade!

Also, Larry Bird is the GOAT player!

[Allstar24]

If that was the case Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would make all-time lists. It's a collection of everything that puts you in the top 10. He's short of that list. For sure.
Kobe is not Kerr or Horry. He is still the Lakers best player and most likely will remain the Lakers best player for at least 3 years. If he wins the championship and Finals MVP this year and the following year, does he enter your top 10 list?

[seanlakers]

If that was the case Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would make all-time lists. It's a collection of everything that puts you in the top 10. He's short of that list. For sure.

Obviously no one is going to make a claim for those two for the reasons you mentioned. Kobe does have a legitimate shot at the top 10, so it doesn't really bother me that he isn't in the mythical top 10 right now.

Kobe has seasons of statistical dominance, numerous accolades, and championships. All of those things will grow and the culmination of his efforts will be undeniable when he is finished. Only then can we properly place him.

[dajadeed]

If that was the case Steve Kerr and Robert Horry would make all-time lists. It's a collection of everything that puts you in the top 10. He's short of that list. For sure.

Nah, he's actually very close to that list if not already in it.

Most people involved with the league already have him near that list.

If your ignorant ass can't even concede the fact that he'll get there with more titles, it just shows how big of a Jordan fa.g.g.ot you are. Don't be a dumbass and compare Kobe to Kerr and Horry.

[catch24]

Kobe's career: accolades, skills, stats, accomplishments, honors, playoff performances, regular season performances, rings, etc is what you have to look at. Kobe winning this year and next year grabbing both Finals MVPS = lock for top 10 without a question. For this year, if he wins, he'll be 11-15.

[Sir Charles]

I respectfully disagree:

Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Hakeem Olajuwon
Oscar Robertson
SHAQ O'NEAL(still playing)
TIM DUNCAN(still playing)
Karl Malone
John Havlicek
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Dr J
Bob Pettit
Charles Barkley
Geroge Mikan
Bob Cousy
Isiah Thomas
Jerry West
John Stockton
Elgin Baylor
Dolph Schayes
Rick Barry
Kevin Garnett (still playing)
George Gervin
Scottie Pippen
Dwyane Wade (still playing)
Patrick Ewing
Artis Gilmore
Dirk (still playing)
LeBron James (still playing)
Tony Parker (still playing)
Chauncey Billups (still playing)
Paul Pierce (still playing)
CP3 (still playing)
I'm having a hard time ranking a lot of today's players on an all-time scale until their career is over. Kobe's career is a little more set in stone.

I would rank Kobe somewhere in the bolded area if he wins the Finals MVP this year.

:no:

Its more like this:

CENTERS:

1- WILT
2- JABBAR
3- SHAQ
4- ROBINSON
5- SABONIS (GILMORE/RUSSELL NBA)

*PATRICK EWING/NATE THURMOND/BILL WALTON/WILLIS REED etc for battle for 6th

CENTER-FORWARDS

1- HAKEEM
2- TIM DUNCAN
3- MOSES MALONE

POWER FORWARDS

1- CHARLES BARKLEY
2- KARL MALONE
3- KEVIN GARNETT
4- BOB PETTIT / KEVIN McHALE
5- DIRK

*DOLPH SHAYES/CHRIS WEBBER battle for 6th

(CHARLES BARKLEY > MALONE...proof: PER; EFF; Statistical + / - and "Without a System for Himself" (get that straight!):hammerhead:

SMALL FORWARDS

1-LARRY BIRD
2-DR J
3-ELGIN BAYLOR
4-RICK BARRY
5-ADRIEN DANTLEY

*SCOTTIE PIPPEN/NIQUE OR HAVELICEK Battle for 6th

SHOOTING GUARDS/COMBO GUARDS

1-MICHAEL JORDAN
2-OSCAR ROBERTSON
3-JERRY WEST
4-GEORGE GERVING
5-CLYDE DREXLER

*BYANT/McGRADY/WADE Battle in 6th Right Now but Have a Chance To End Up Either 3rd, 4th or 5th

*ALLEN IVERSON/PETE MARAVICH Battle for 9th and 10th

POINT GUARDS:

1-MAGIC JOHNSON
2-JOHN STOCKTON
3-WALT FRAIZER
4-ISIAH THOMAS/PAYTON
5-COUSY

*ARCHIBALD/KJ for 6th
*Cheeks/Chris Paul...Climbing.. TO 4TH PROBABLY

Something Like This...

[Sir Charles]

Proof:

EFF, PER and Statsticl +/- = REAL IMPACT

Not Popularity Contests
Not Bull MVP/All NBA Team Poularity Opinion Crap
Not Off the Court Activities Role Model Opinion or Like That Personality Better Crap
Not Championships, Championships = Teams :hammerhead: etc Crap!

Indicate the Following:

http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leaderscareer.htm?stat=eff&lg=n

Career EFF Leaders

Player EFF Seasons

1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16

11 Jerry Lucas 28.13 11
12 LeBron James 27.20 6
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 27.17 18
14 Shaquille O'neal 27.11 17
15 Jerry West 27.10 14
16 David Robinson 26.98 14
17 Karl Malone 26.94 19
18 Kevin Garnett 26.80 14
19 Tim Duncan 26.39 12
20 Walt Bellamy 26.29 14

21 Dave Cowens 26.23 11
22 Maurice Stokes 25.75 3
23 Chris Paul 25.31 4
24 Bob Lanier 25.29 14
25 Bob McAdoo 24.47 14
26 Dirk Nowitzki 24.34 11
27 Dwyane Wade 24.22 6
28 Moses Malone 24.14 19
29 Willis Reed 24.06 10
30 Elvin Hayes 24.04 16

31 Rick Barry 23.98 10
32 Elton Brand 23.96 10
33 Nate Thurmond 23.73 14
34 Chris Webber 23.72 15
35 Wes Unseld 23.70 13
36 Billy Cunningham 23.51 9
37 Patrick Ewing 23.41 17
38 Julius Erving 23.35 11
39 Neil Johnston 23.23 8
40 Dwight Howard 23.18 5

41 Brad Daugherty 23.10 8
42 Shawn Marion 22.99 10
43 Artis Gilmore 22.99 12
44 Amare Stoudemire 22.85 7
45 Walt Frazier 22.74 13
46 Gus Johnson 22.63 9
47 Adrian Dantley 22.60 15
48 Kobe Bryant 22.58 13
49 Clyde Drexler 22.42 15
50 Pau Gasol 22.33 8
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating (Season)

Rank Player PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. Shaquille O'Neal 26.87
3. LeBron James 26.20
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Bob Pettit* 25.37
7. Tim Duncan 25.05
8. Neil Johnston* 24.66
9. Charles Barkley* 24.63
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58

11. Magic Johnson* 24.11
12. Karl Malone 23.90
13. Dirk Nowitzki 23.84
14. Kevin Garnett 23.81
15. Kobe Bryant 23.63
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Julius Erving* 23.57
18. Larry Bird* 23.50
19. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
20. Tracy McGrady 23.07

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

21. Yao Ming 23.03
22. Jerry West* 22.90
23. Elgin Baylor* 22.70
24. Elton Brand 22.38
25. Moses Malone* 22.00
26. Dolph Schayes* 21.93
27. John Stockton* 21.83
28. Pau Gasol 21.77
29. Bob Lanier* 21.69
30. Clyde Lovellette* 21.67

31. Dominique Wilkins* 21.56
32. Adrian Dantley* 21.51
33. Harry Gallatin* 21.44
34. Vince Carter 21.41
35. Artis Gilmore 21.40
36. George Gervin* 21.38
37. Dan Issel* 21.37
38. Alonzo Mourning 21.24
39. Allen Iverson 21.10
40. Clyde Drexler* 21.07

41. Rick Barry* 21.04
42. Patrick Ewing* 21.01
43. Paul Pierce 21.00
44. Chris Webber 20.94
45. John Drew 20.74
46. Gilbert Arenas 20.74
47. Bob McAdoo* 20.73
48. Kevin Johnson 20.70
49. Chris Bosh 20.69
50. George Yardley* 20.52


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating (Play-Offs)

Rank Player PER

1. Michael Jordan* 28.59
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.47
4. LeBron James 26.14
5. Tim Duncan 26.07
6. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
7. Tracy McGrady 24.66
8. Dirk Nowitzki 24.43
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dwyane Wade 23.55

11. Dolph Schayes* 23.24
12. Kevin Garnett 23.19
13. Jerry West* 23.07
14. David Robinson* 23.03
15. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 23.01
16. Magic Johnson* 22.95
17. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.76
18. Bob Pettit* 22.58
19. Baron Davis 22.19
20. Julius Erving* 22.05

21. Elgin Baylor* 21.88
22. Rick Barry* 21.79
23. Moses Malone* 21.56
24. Kobe Bryant 21.50
25. Larry Bird* 21.40
26. Vince Carter 21.40
27. Allen Iverson 21.23
28. George Gervin* 21.17
29. Karl Malone 21.12
30. Oscar Robertson* 20.98

31. Bob Lanier* 20.81
32. Pau Gasol 20.70
33. George Yardley* 20.69
34. Cliff Hagan* 20.62
35. Shawn Kemp 20.55
36. Gus Williams 20.40
37. Artis Gilmore 20.36
38. Manu Ginobili 20.35
39. Paul Arizin* 20.31
40. Dan Issel* 20.06

41. Alex English* 19.92
42. Walter Davis 19.91
43. John Stockton* 19.84
44. Walt Frazier* 19.84
45. Isiah Thomas* 19.80
46. Anfernee Hardaway 19.76
47. Clyde Lovellette* 19.73
48. George McGinnis 19.73
49. Clyde Drexler* 19.71
50. Chauncey Billups 19.64

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1415

Statistical +/-

Player Pos G Min SPM
---------------+--+----------+--------+------
michaeljordan G 1072 41013 12.85
wiltchamberlain C 1045 47859 11.59
davidrobinson C 987 34272 10.79
lebronjames F 444 18083 10.00
charlesbarkley F 1073 39330 9.03
k.abdul-jabbar C 1560 57446 9.01
magicjohnson G 906 33245 8.82
larrybird F 897 34443 8.81
juliuserving F 1243 45227 8.57
shaquilleo'neal C 1089 39103 8.21

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bobpettit F 792 30690 7.87
clydedrexler G 1086 37537 7.79
oscarrobertson G 1040 43886 7.75
hakeemolajuwon C 1238 44222 7.70
elginbaylor F 846 33863 7.59
karlmalone F 1476 54852 7.50
andreikirilenko F 533 16671 7.37
timduncan F 877 32481 7.30
tracymcgrady F 784 27463 7.12
kevingarnett F 1051 39570 6.91

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

boblanier C 959 32103 6.24
kobebryant G 921 33584 6.22
jerrywest G 932 36571 6.17
bobbyjones F 941 25728 6.16
conniehawkins F 616 22232 6.08
dirknowitzki F 812 29663 5.97
neiljohnston C 516 18298 5.94
vincecarter G 752 28333 5.88
billrussell C 963 40726 5.85
larrynance F 920 30697 5.74

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dolphschayes F 866 29800 5.65
johnstockton G 1504 47764 5.63
rickbarry F 1020 38153 5.56
waltfrazier G 825 30965 5.45
paulpierce F 788 29570 5.30
artisgilmore C 1329 47150 5.16
docrivers G 864 23567 5.16
alvinrobertson G 779 24669 5.13
d.wilkins F 1074 38113 5.10
billycunningham F 770 26844 5.09

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
scottiepippen F 1178 41069 4.97
booutlaw F 914 20750 4.91
eltonbrand F 643 24421 4.87
gilbertarenas G 431 16115 4.80
waltbellamy C 1043 38940 4.72
chriswebber F 831 30847 4.71
marquesjohnson F 691 23694 4.65
sidneymoncrief G 767 23150 4.60
rogerbrown F 605 21454 4.57
wesunseld C 984 35832 4.56

[Sir Charles]

Players that Appear in the Top 20 in Every 4 of the Categories (EFF, PER/Season + Play-Offs and Statistical +/-)

*not including players whom are still playing....

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Barkley
Hakeem
Robinson
Magic
Bob Petit

Players that Appear in the Top 20 in 3 of 4 of the Categories (EFF, PER/Season + Play-Offs and Statistical +/-)

*not including players whom are still playing....

Elgin Baylor
Karl Malone
Larry Bird
Dr J
Big O

So as We Can See There Are Really 8 Total Greatest Players of All Time whom which clearly have Impacted and Exceled in Real Evidence of Greatness:

EFF: Efficiency Production Career: this is much determined also but what the Level of Players You Have Around to Make You Better or You Make Them Better.

*Notice how Bill Russel and Bird where masters at that!

PER: Efficiency Production Per Minute : this involves your Efficiency Production per Minute and physical attribute are very important here (athletic capacity, potence, speed, quickness, agility, leap, endurance etc)

Statistical +/- : This involves TOTAL IMPACT in a Game All Around Wise, Your Pluses and Your Cons Included.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of those 13 Greatest Players it is quite obvious that Kareems and Dr J`s EFF, PER and Statistical +/- is Higher because they played passed their primes

Kareem`s Real Prime was 1969/79-1981/82 (ages 22-32)
Dr J`s Real Prime was 1972/73-1982-83 (ages 22-32)

Some will obviously Argue that Dr J was Better in his Prime than Bird...which is Maybe debatable because THE NETS where NO TEAM :no: compared to BIRD`s...So Dr J was Probably the More Impactful Player although Bird was the Better Player at Making Others Better.

It is also obvious that Larry Bird was never the Same after 1988 because of injuries something that did not happen to Dr J aswell. Reason why Bird`s Peek was Better than Magic`s.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Same could be said to Hakeem and Karl Malone whom also played passed their primes but like those other 2 named before they where still effective passed their primes and ofcourse their PER, EFF and Statistical +/- where lowered

And some could argue that Hakeem > Robinson and Malone > Barkley from which i respond

Hakeem > Robinson. I say Yes

He prooved that he was a Clutcher Player under Stronger Competition Over The Years...reason why his Play-Off PER is > to Robinson`s and ofcourse his Capacity to make Others Better is also above Robinson`s

Lets also remember and point out that Robinson had the Weaker Casts so he pretty much had a Tougher Defensive Responsability than Hakeem`s FOR ALL OF HIS CAREER. People must admit to that!

Hakeem`s + Sampson Years from 1984-85 to 1986-87 was an Incredible Team
Hakeem`s after Sampson Years from 1987-88 Was- 1994-95 Good to Great Team

Robinson`1989-90 to 1996-97 was an Average to Good Team

So Yes Hakeem was Better but not by the Large Margin Most People Think :no: Infact by a Smaller Magin.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now Charles Barkley vs Karl Malone.

Some may see Malone was Better because he Lasted Longer Playing at a Superior Level. I Say Yes, It is True:

BUT...

That is NOT an Argument of "HOW GOOD" A Player Is or Was. That is an argument of how FIT and Durable a Player Is.

If you look at their Primes...ages 22-32 the edge goes for Barkley slightly... and Malone played more minutes to show for less. If you look at Passed Their Primes: ages 33-36 or 33-40 the edge goes to Malone clearly.

Anyone who saw the NBA in the late 80s and early 90s knows that Barkley was about to retire the 1994-95 season due to back injuries...similar injuries to those that Bird had in 1989 which evidenced that Bird could never again play like he could before. It was Ainge that convinced him to stay. To end it all, when he got to the Rockets he fuc-ked up his kneed and it was all over.

*Same goes for a 1989-90 to 1995-96 Robinson
*Same goes for a 1993-94 to 1999-200 Grant Hill

They where no longer the Players they where before..

Not to forget the fact that

Karl Malone`s Teams from 1985-86 to 1992-93 Was Good Team
Barkley`s Teams from 1984-85 to 1985-86 was a Great Team! but he was Rookie Playing Few Minutes in 1984-85 and it Was an Era Full of Greater Teams (something that in 90s and 2000s is Non Existant!). It was the Toughest Era in NBA History

Then..

Barkley`s Team from 1986-87 was an Average Team while Malone`s Was Still a Good Team

And ofcourse from 1987-88 to 1991-92 Barkley had A PATHETIC TEAM! which lived Off What Barkley Produced and did not even deserve to Go to the Play-Offs

While Malone and Stockon where Enjoying of each other One Dimensional Game: Stockton designing everything for him on Pick and Rolls or Breaks and having a Top Defensive Rating/Shot Blocking Machine Mark Eaton to anchor their Teams Defense so they could Run Freely in a WEAKER CONFERENCE than what Barkley played in.

So...

Malone is by No Means > Barkley AT ALL :no:

Infact Total Opposite

Not to forget the Stat Floor % another Great Statistic that evidenced "A ONCE HATER OF BARKLEY" that clearly said even though this man was hated or envied by the Media, the Fans or the Coaches... it was prooven that he was the Best Player along Jordan after the Bird-Magic Legacy in the Late 80s and Early 90s.

BUT...My Friends the fact that Barkley Was Obviously Better than Malone to "Anyone Who Knows Basketball" relies especifically in the fact:

That Charles`s PLAY-OFF Acitivity was CLEARLY Above Malone`s.

*Second Player to Wilt Chamberlain to have more 40 Pt/ 20 Rbd games! :hammerhead:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally:

It is there in the Play-Offs then Competition gets Tougher and that is an Area that neither Robinson nor Malone could match either Hakeem or Barkley...especially in THE OFFENSIVE WAY and the ALL AROUND GAME WAY.

So the edge goes for both Hakeem and Barkley...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE REAL GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME ARE:

*In no Order

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Barkley
Hakeem
Robinson
Magic
Larry Bird
Dr. J
Bob Petit

In the Top 10-15 are:

-Elgin Baylor
-Karl Malone
-Big O
-Jerry West


Others who will be eligable to be compared to these dudes on top are soon:

Shaq
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett

*Lebron James in 5 Years

Below Them:

Dirk Nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Dwyane Wade

But before that whe must wait for their careers to be over some are still in their primes...so we can firstly compare them to Top 15/20-50 Greatest Players That Involve: The Gilmores, The Ewings, The Russels, the Waltons, The Thurmonds, The Laniers, The Waltons, The Unselds, The Hayes, The Bellamys, The Lucases, The Cowneses, The Kevin McHales, The Webbers, The Barrys, The Pippen`s, The Wilkins, The Dantleys, The Drexlers, They Maravichs, The Stocktons, The Isiahs, The Fraizers, The Gary Paytons etc....and from their generation a notch below:

The Nashes, The Kidds, The Grant Hills, The Iversons etc...

End! :violin:

[BlackMamba24]

:

SHOOTING GUARDS/COMBO GUARDS

1-MICHAEL JORDAN
2-OSCAR ROBERTSON
3-JERRY WEST
4-GEORGE GERVING
5-CLYDE DREXLER

*BYANT/McGRADY/WADE Battle in 6th Right Now but Have a Chance To End Up Either 3rd, 4th or 5th

*ALLEN IVERSON/PETE MARAVICH Battle for 9th and 10th

[/B]
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Oscar, West, Gervin are UTTER TRASH. They all played in WEAK eras with unathletic goggle wearing centers dominating. :roll:

West would be a towel waving scrub in today's league, Oscar would be a 12th man while Gervin would ride the pine.

Top 5 Shooting guards all time:
1. Bryant









2. The Rest.

[BallersTalk]

He needs a few more to top Duncan/Shaq.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Most popular player? Probably.

Best of the decade? Umm... No, Duncan and Shaq have both been better.


Seriously the Kobe threads need to stop. It's hilarious, how the Kobe threads just start going crazy when he close to winning a title, but just disappear when he loses. Last year, there weren't many "Kobe is GOAT" or "Kobe is top 5 all time" threads, but this year just because he will probably win the title, the threads just start flooding the forum. :ohwell:

[sbw19]

Most popular player? Probably.

Best of the decade? Umm... No, Duncan and Shaq have both been better

Definitely agree. Kobe winning his 1st title w/o Shaq will separate him from the LeBrons and DWades of the league, but it won't put him ahead of the likes of Shaq and Duncan.

IMO Kobe needs to win at least two more rings to be in that super elite category. Right now he's almost there, but not quite. Even if he wins his 4th chip this year.

[cdbleb]

I respectfully disagree:

Michael Jordan
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Hakeem Olajuwon
Oscar Robertson
SHAQ O'NEAL(still playing)
TIM DUNCAN(still playing)
Karl Malone
John Havlicek
Moses Malone
David Robinson
Dr J
Bob Pettit
Charles Barkley
Geroge Mikan
Bob Cousy
Isiah Thomas
Jerry West
John Stockton
Elgin Baylor
Dolph Schayes
Rick Barry
Kevin Garnett (still playing)
George Gervin
Scottie Pippen
Dwyane Wade (still playing)
Patrick Ewing
Artis Gilmore
Dirk (still playing)
LeBron James (still playing)
Tony Parker (still playing)
Chauncey Billups (still playing)
Paul Pierce (still playing)
CP3 (still playing)
I'm having a hard time ranking a lot of today's players on an all-time scale until their career is over. Kobe's career is a little more set in stone.

I would rank Kobe somewhere in the bolded area if he wins the Finals MVP this year.

Dominique Wilkins?

[KobeKlutch]

UPDATE:

Kobe won Player of the Decade Award.

:applause:

[DeronMillsap]

LOL...this Kobe guy is funny.

[StarJordan]

The decade is over moron....we are in a new decade 2010-2019...decade of the 10s

[KG215]

The decade is over moron....we are in a new decade 2010-2019...decade of the 10s

Yes, and the thread was made last year, during the 2009-2010 season, a pat of last decade.

[monkeypox]

The decade is over moron....we are in a new decade 2010-2019...decade of the 10s

Lol, suckered by a zombie thread.