Sorry, but KG is the third best this decade, Kobe fourth

[KG5MVP]

See this is why people don`t respect Kobe Fans you OVERRATE him till a point it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

Shaq:

Top 2 All Time Season PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 2 All Time Play-Offs PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time EFF (Great-Top Skill Set Domination)
Top 10 All Time Statistical +/- (Top All Around Game Impact)

Won 4 Titles: 4 of them as THE BEST PLAYER

Just look at his Stats and Play-Offs Stats they speak for nothing more than the

*Most Efficient Inside Scorer of All Time in Active Game History

*Most Doubled and Tripled Center of All Time with Wilt


Duncan:

Top 5 All Time Play-Off PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 7 All Time PER Season (Total Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 18 All Time Statiscial + / - (Great All Around Game Impact)


4 Titles: 1 Of them As The 1st or 2nd Best Player, The Rest as THE BEST PLAYER

*Second Best CF of All Time: after Hakeem Olajuwon


Kevin Garnett

Top 12 Play-Off PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF Player (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 20 All Time Statistical +/- (Great All Around Game Impact)


Won 1 Championship (fafter playing for pathetic teams All His Life, unlike the Other Players) as THE BEST PLAYER (before Kobe)

*Best All Around PF-SF of All Time

*Top 4 Pure PF of All Time

**2008-2009 Injury Reason Why He Probably Doesn`t have 2 Titles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe

Top 15 Play-Offf PER of All Time (Great Individidual Domination)
Top 21 Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 48 EFF Player of All Time (Good Skill Set Domination)
Top 22 Statistical +/- All Time (Great All Around Game Impact)


Never Won a Title as a Best Player

*Will Win This Year with THE BEST TEAM in the NBA (different from all those other players)

*One of the of 2 or 3 of Greatest 1 on 1 Perimter Shooters of All Time


It is Quite Clear that Shaq, Duncan and Garnett are the Best Players of the Decade

[KG5MVP]

Doesn't the best player usually win MVP?

MVP = Most Valueable Player Not Best Player :hammerhead:

Sometimes The Best Player Gets the MVP...Sometimes Not...


What? Since when is Garnett considered anywhere near a SF? Never.

He is a Versatile Player capable of playing SF-PF and FC and did play at SF for some seasons such as Barkley from 1989-91.

2nd greatest shooting guard of all time (some argue West is 2nd, still)

I never said Second Greatest SG I said "Second or Third 1 on 1 Shooting Skill Wise SG of All Time"

But has 3 championships and played a big role in getting them, and is close to winning one as the best player (something KG has never done ;-) )

That is Good for Kobe is a Great Player a Top 25-30 of All Time :applause:

Garnett was the Best Player in the Celtics RUn in 2009. He wasn`t the leading Scorer or Clutch Shooter but he HAD THE OVERAL BEST IMPACT AND ALL AROUND GAME: YEARS ago Barkely said there are ONLY 3 SUPERSTARS IN THE LEAGUE:

Strange that the Stats evidence this huh?

You Dumb Blind Kobe Fans Think that Being the Best Player is "Being a Clutch Shooter and Volume Scorer" :no: :rolleyes:

THERE ARE MORE SKILLS AND WAYS OF IMPACT THAN HAVING A "1 ON 1 GREAT SHOOTING SILKY SMOOTH TOUCH AND FADEAWAY"..REALLY, THERE IS... REALLY... :cheers:

No Wonder You Can`t Tell the Difference of Impact Between Players becaue "YOU SEE THE GAME FROM 1 POSITION (SG)" (JORDAN`S FAULT OFCOURSE)...:confusedshrug:


http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2008.html

2007-08 Boston Celtics Roster and Statistics
Franchise Index: Previous Season ▪ Next Season

Season PER:

Garnett: 25.3

Pierece: 19.6
Ray Allen: 16.4
Rondo: 15.6


Play-Offs PER:

Garnett: 23.0

Pierece: 17.4
Ray Allen: 14.9




?? O'reilly? KG didn't have the best team last year? (as did all the others?


:no:

He Was in One of the Deepest Teams (Today: Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Magic, Nuggets) but not the Best Starting Lineup.

The Lakers have the Best Starting Line Up by MILES

He Was Ine One of the Best 4 Teams.... :confusedshrug:

*Bryant is Quite Lucky Garnett did not play in the play-offs for the Celtics whom couldn`t get to the ECF because they had no Garnett

*So much for idiots that say Pierce is Better than Garnett when PER; EFF and All Statistical Breakdown Stats of IMPACTS Say the Contrary...The evidence at hand.


Your selective stats aside, Kobe will clearly be considered a greater player than Garnett (the only one of the 4 that was occasionally afraid to take the last possession, and the only one of the 4 that wasn't a "go-to-guy" in the 4thE quarter of the championship team[s]).

I don`t go by what the media and the fans want to determine a Great Player i go by Efficiency and Impact = Reality and that even goes BEYOND BROKEN DOWN STATS (CLOSEST TO REALITY) but by also the LEVEL OF TEAMATES this Dude Had IN HIS PRIME and THOSE PLAYERS PRIME etc..

Kevin Garnett Has Been Clearly a Superior All Around Player and Better Impact-Efficiency Player than Kobe

Better: Passer, Rebounder, Interior Defender, Exterior Defender (capable of guarding some Cs, Pfs, SFs), 1 on 1 Defender and as Good as Volume Scorer and Superior Efficiency Scorer FG%

He is not a "Better Clutch Scorer" but that is 1 thing over the many Skill that Garnett has over Kobe

He simply is the BETTER PLAYER and has been.

Garnetts Impact:

Defensive Rating

2003-04 NBA 91.6 (3)
2004-05 NBA 98.7 (8)
2005-06 NBA 98.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 93.8 (1)
2008-09 NBA 97.5 (2)
Active 99.3 (7)

Player Efficiency Rating

1999-00 NBA 23.6 (7)
2000-01 NBA 23.9 (8)
2001-02 NBA 23.8 (6)
2002-03 NBA 26.4 (4)
2003-04 NBA 29.4 (1)
2004-05 NBA 28.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 26.8 (5)
2006-07 NBA 24.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 25.3 (4)
Active 23.8 (5)


All Kobe Fans do to measure a Player`s Level is

"CLUTCH SHOOTING and NICE LOOKING 1 ON 1 SHOOTING FADEWAYS OR PURE SHOOTING"

That is my friend 1 or 2 of the 100s of Facetes and Skills and Forms of Impact a The Game has

There Really is More SKills and Ways of Impact, Really
There Really is More Positions than a SG :cheers:

*Jordan destroyed Real NBA Fans because he DOMINATED ALL SKILLS AND IMPACTED AGAINST ALL from the SG Spot..Something that had Never Been Done, Will Never Be Done Probably and Now Stern a Desesperation (after MJ retired) to keep that MJ Spirtin Alive Trying to Force The Creation of False New Jordan at all cost: making it easier for Perimeter Players (more Marketable Game than the Inside Game ofcourse = a Lost Art In Todays Game) so that they can have a similar Impact and guess what? THEY STILL CANT!!!!!!!!!!

* Kobe ofcourse the victim of this comparission and hype but its not his fault he is a great player

Just not in the level of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron...soon Wade

he is more in the Wade-Dirk level...Wade is rising up to the other level soon

PERIOD

[The Magic Man]

1. KG did not win a title as the best player.
2. Kg couldn't do jack sh*t as the man in Minny, for that matter.
3. PER is for idiots who never even played the game.
4. You're retarded.

[The Logo]

Garnett was a perennial loser in Minny for majority of the decade. He NEEDED 2 future HOFers and a great supporting cast to finally win a ring. And he didn't even win the finals MVP.

Kobe's been to the finals 6 times in the decade. He will win the title and finals MVP this year. And all he needed was a two-time Allstar.

Kobe=third best player in this decade. Period.

[Cyclone112]

Forgot to sign back into your Sir Charles account?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

are you talking to yourself in this thread?

[shrempf_on_rice]

This is why people hate KG, highly overated by his fans because he finally got a championship, while he couldn't do jack for so long back in Minny..

[Jacks3]

Kobe wins a championship this year, and he's Top 10 All-Time without a doubt.:pimp:

[KG5MVP]

i simply quoted what sir charles wrote in another post

[catch24]

"Sir Con" exposed. :rolleyes:

[catch24]

Lol

[thuggets]

yeah keep dreaming. come back when he wins 2 more rings without the other 2 hall of famers.

[KG5MVP]

yeah keep dreaming. come back when he wins 2 more rings without the other 2 hall of famers.

come back when Kobe wins a ring without Shaq

[Jacks3]

4 rings, 6 Finals>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1 ring, 1 Finals

[thuggets]

come back when Kobe wins a ring without Shaq

oh okay, it will be sometime next week.

[KG5MVP]

4 rings, 6 Finals>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1 ring, 1 Finals

robert horry has 7 rings, does that mean he's better than kobe?

[Jacks3]

Yes, Horry is the same caliber of player as Kobe/KG.:rolleyes: Get that weak **** outta here

[truethat23]

I respectfully diagree! Kobe Bryant is clearly the third best player of this decade over KG.

[KG5MVP]

Yes, Horry is the same caliber of player as Kobe/KG.:rolleyes: Get that weak **** outta here

i am simplying disproving his argument

[thuggets]

robert horry has 7 rings, does that mean he's better than kobe?

kobe is in the final's again. where is kg?

[KG5MVP]

kobe is in the final's again. where is kg?

hedo turkuglu is in the finals, where is Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, Chris paul?

[spursdynasty420]

i dont even agree with shaq over duncan... duncan is alot smarter and has more fundamentals which will serve him when his body goes out. shaq has no fundamentals just athleticism and now that he is losing that he is pretty much useless. duncan will be a kareem type player. always consistant

[KG5MVP]

i dont even agree with shaq over duncan... duncan is alot smarter and has more fundamentals which will serve him when his body goes out. shaq has no fundamentals just athleticism and now that he is losing that he is pretty much useless. duncan will be a kareem type player. always consistant

i personally think Duncan>Shaq too, but that's not what the post is about, the Post is about KG>Kobe

[NewYorkUSCtrojan]

KG5MVP is an idiot..!


END THREAD

[thuggets]

hedo turkuglu is in the finals, where is Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, Chris paul?

we are talking about kg and kobe. if he wins the championship he will definitely go way above kg.

[KG5MVP]

we are talking about kg and kobe. if he wins the championship he will definitely go way above kg.

Kobe only wins it because hes lucky that Ginobili's injured, KG's injured, Yao ming's injured

[vert48]

Kobe only wins it because hes lucky that Ginobili's injured, KG's injured, Yao ming's injuredKG won last year because Ariza and Bynum were injured. Part of the game.

[thuggets]

Kobe only wins it because hes lucky that Ginobili's injured, KG's injured, Yao ming's injured

well he can have the title as best player of the decade. kobe won't be able to hear him over the crowd screaming in the parade.

http://s3.images.com/huge.82.413849.JPG

[highwhey]

i dont even agree with shaq over duncan... duncan is alot smarter and has more fundamentals which will serve him when his body goes out. shaq has no fundamentals just athleticism and now that he is losing that he is pretty much useless. duncan will be a kareem type player. always consistant
I congratulate you on your ignorant post.

According to your statement, you claim Shaq relies on his athletic ability, really? Wow, go watch some footage of Shaq play. Shaq is skilled, he's not Dwight Howard. If Shaq relied solely on his athleticism, he'd be gone by now, he's already 37. You think a 300lb+ 7'1 guy could average 18ppg at age 37 if he relied on athleticism? At age 37, Shaq is nowhere near as athletic as he was back in his early years, hell even at age 30 he was in a much better position. On 30 minutes a game, he averaged 18ppg 9 boards, 2 blocks and 2 assist. Get your facts straight and hop off Duncan's dick for a bit. Typically I ignore stupid posts, but sometimes I feel I'm in an argumentative mood.

[MaxFly]

See this is why people don`t respect Kobe Fans you OVERRATE him till a point it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

Shaq:

Top 2 All Time Season PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 2 All Time Play-Offs PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time EFF (Great-Top Skill Set Domination)
Top 10 All Time Statistical +/- (Top All Around Game Impact)

Won 4 Titles: 4 of them as THE BEST PLAYER

Just look at his Stats and Play-Offs Stats they speak for nothing more than the

*Most Efficient Inside Scorer of All Time in Active Game History

*Most Doubled and Tripled Center of All Time with Wilt


Duncan:

Top 5 All Time Play-Off PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 7 All Time PER Season (Total Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 18 All Time Statiscial + / - (Great All Around Game Impact)


4 Titles: 1 Of them As The 1st or 2nd Best Player, The Rest as THE BEST PLAYER

*Second Best CF of All Time: after Hakeem Olajuwon


Kevin Garnett

Top 12 Play-Off PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF Player (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 20 All Time Statistical +/- (Great All Around Game Impact)


Won 1 Championship (fafter playing for pathetic teams All His Life, unlike the Other Players) as THE BEST PLAYER (before Kobe)

*Best All Around PF-SF of All Time

*Top 4 Pure PF of All Time

**2008-2009 Injury Reason Why He Probably Doesn`t have 2 Titles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe

Top 15 Play-Offf PER of All Time (Great Individidual Domination)
Top 21 Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 48 EFF Player of All Time (Good Skill Set Domination)
Top 22 Statistical +/- All Time (Great All Around Game Impact)


Never Won a Title as a Best Player

*Will Win This Year with THE BEST TEAM in the NBA (different from all those other players)

*One of the of 2 or 3 of Greatest 1 on 1 Perimter Shooters of All Time


It is Quite Clear that Shaq, Duncan and Garnett are the Best Players of the Decade

Didn't KG lose 8 straight times in the first round, and then go on to miss the playoffs like 3 years in a row?

[MaxFly]

This is why people hate KG, highly overated by his fans because he finally got a championship, while he couldn't do jack for so long back in Minny..

This is not a KG fan.

[Spudjjay]

Didn't KG lose 8 straight times in the first round, and then go on to miss the playoffs like 3 years in a row?

Yep.

[Doranku]

Some people really are delusional, damn..

[Myth]

The OP is Sir Charles isn't he? Both use crazy fonts and obsess about a single player per account.

[highwhey]

The OP is Sir Charles isn't he? Both use crazy fonts and obsess about a single player per account.
Possibly.

He suffers from multiple personality disorder, except it's online where portrays his different personalities.

[D-Rose]

HOLY SH*T IT IS SIR CHARLES LOLOLOL :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :roll: :lol

[BallPhunk]

The OP is Sir Charles isn't he? Both use crazy fonts and obsess about a single player per account.

The first post is a Sir Charles post he made in the "Kobe will be the face of the decade if he wins this year" thread.

The 2nd post is a followup I made as a rebuttal. Of course, in the context here it makes no sense cause he looks like he's making all the points. :rolleyes: :lol

[magi]

Kobe is clearly better then Garnett this decade. He has won more, he has achieved more accolades and he is just down right the more talented basketball player. He is a murderer in the 4th quarter when we all know Garnett is like charmin toilet paper when it comes to carrying his team in clutch moments.

[SCY]

Before KG went to Boston, he played with a total of one player better than Lamar Odom, the result being he went to the WCF where said player got injured. Lamar Odom now comes off the bench for Kobe's team. KG lost in the 1st round repeatedly because he had the worst supporting casts ever. Judging these 2 players by playoff success is f'ing stupid.

[Killbot]

HOLY SH*T IT IS SIR CHARLES LOLOLOL :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :roll: :lol

I don't think that's Sir Charles. I think it's his son. Sir Charles use bold and color font in every post.

[KenneBell]

LOL at Sir Charles.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

[QUOTE=magi

[JtotheIzzo]

how many times did KG get out of the first round?

isn't it 2 times? All decade..STFU...honestly

[NBASTATMAN]

See this is why people don`t respect Kobe Fans you OVERRATE him till a point it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

Shaq:

Top 2 All Time Season PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 2 All Time Play-Offs PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time EFF (Great-Top Skill Set Domination)
Top 10 All Time Statistical +/- (Top All Around Game Impact)

Won 4 Titles: 4 of them as THE BEST PLAYER

Just look at his Stats and Play-Offs Stats they speak for nothing more than the

*Most Efficient Inside Scorer of All Time in Active Game History

*Most Doubled and Tripled Center of All Time with Wilt


Duncan:

Top 5 All Time Play-Off PER (Total Individual Domination)
Top 7 All Time PER Season (Total Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 18 All Time Statiscial + / - (Great All Around Game Impact)


4 Titles: 1 Of them As The 1st or 2nd Best Player, The Rest as THE BEST PLAYER

*Second Best CF of All Time: after Hakeem Olajuwon


Kevin Garnett

Top 12 Play-Off PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 14 All Time Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 18 All Time EFF Player (Great Skill Set Domination)
Top 20 All Time Statistical +/- (Great All Around Game Impact)


Won 1 Championship (fafter playing for pathetic teams All His Life, unlike the Other Players) as THE BEST PLAYER (before Kobe)

*Best All Around PF-SF of All Time

*Top 4 Pure PF of All Time

**2008-2009 Injury Reason Why He Probably Doesn`t have 2 Titles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobe

Top 15 Play-Offf PER of All Time (Great Individidual Domination)
Top 21 Season PER of All Time (Great Individual Domination)
Top 48 EFF Player of All Time (Good Skill Set Domination)
Top 22 Statistical +/- All Time (Great All Around Game Impact)


Never Won a Title as a Best Player

*Will Win This Year with THE BEST TEAM in the NBA (different from all those other players)

*One of the of 2 or 3 of Greatest 1 on 1 Perimter Shooters of All Time


It is Quite Clear that Shaq, Duncan and Garnett are the Best Players of the Decade



kobe and kg are about the same.. But Kobe has won more so I put kobe over kg...

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

how many times did KG get out of the first round?

isn't it 2 times? All decade..STFU...honestly On paper, the teams he was on shouldn't even have made the Playoffs. But I agree with Kobe being 3rd.

[JtotheIzzo]

On paper, the teams he was on shouldn't even have made the Playoffs.

whatever...luckily he had Paul Pierce to guard Kobe and hit big shots, because that BS pull up from the foul line and that make or break turnaround in the post he always falls back on isn't clutch.

KG is a nice baller, but 3rd this decade? Only a retarded crack head would think that.

[NBASTATMAN]

Before KG went to Boston, he played with a total of one player better than Lamar Odom, the result being he went to the WCF where said player got injured. Lamar Odom now comes off the bench for Kobe's team. KG lost in the 1st round repeatedly because he had the worst supporting casts ever. Judging these 2 players by playoff success is f'ing stupid.


Your post is accurate but it isn' t Kobe's fault Kg did not take a lower amount of money to play with better players.. In my opinion , kg was happy not having any expectations on his team.. Kobe deserves the higher rating.. Though I believe kobe and kg are on the same level as talents when you consider how great kg is defensively...

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

whatever...luckily he had Paul Pierce to guard Kobe and hit big shots, because that BS pull up from the foul line and that make or break turnaround in the post he always falls back on isn't clutch.

KG is a nice baller, but 3rd this decade? Only a retarded crack head would think that. I already stated that I agree with Kobe being 3rd, relax.

[bruceblitz]

As long as the Lakers don't pull an 06 Mavs impersonation, this will be Kobe's first ring as the undisputed leader.


Facts:

Scoring titles - Iverson owns 4, T-Mac owns 2, Kobe 2, LeBron 1, Wade 1


MVP's - Nash 2, Dirk 1, KG 1, Duncan 2, Shaq 1, LeBron 1, Kobe 1, Iverson 1
Looks like a pretty balanced "decade" to me.

Finals MVP's - Shaq 3, Duncan 3, Billups 1, D Wade 1, Tony Parker 1, Paul Pierce 1

So, for the FINAL breakdown:

#1) Duncan - 5 combined MVP awards in the regular season/Finals
#2) Shaq - 4 combined MVP awards in the regular season/Finals
#3) (this is where debate begins, spots #1 and #2 are not up for debate with true observers)

So the #3 candidates:

Dwyane Wade - 1 scoring title, 1 Finals MVP
Kobe Bryant - 2 scoring titles, 1 MVP, working on his 1st Finals MVP
Iverson - 4 scoring titles, 1 MVP
KG - 1 MVP, defensive player of the year award winner

For me I would probably go:

Duncan, Shaq, Kobe (as long as the Lakers hold on), Wade, Iverson, KG, LeBron

Even though LeBron has dominated this decade from an all-around numbers standpoint, there are players who were in their primes and put the league on blast.

Again, to re-state:

#1) Duncan
#2) Shaq
#3) Kobe
#4) Wade
#5) Iverson
#6) KG
#7) LeBron
#8) Tony Parker
#9) Chauncey
#10) T-Mac/Dirk(Dirk could be ranked a little higher, depending on your view of the other players)

Something like that would seem appropriate.
That's my take on it, I posted that in another thread, but I think players like Wade, Iverson, Tony Parker and Billups are extremely underrated. I know, I know, no championships for Iverson but in his prime he virtually had nothing but journeymen around him or one dimensional players past their prime (Mutumbo).

[Allstar24]

I'm not even bothered by this thread...because I know it's not even close. Kobe's easily the third best player in this decade.

[JtotheIzzo]

That's my take on it, I posted that in another thread, but I think players like Wade, Iverson, Tony Parker and Billups are extremely underrated. I know, I know, no championships for Iverson but in his prime he virtually had nothing but journeymen around him or one dimensional players past their prime (Mutumbo).

Mutumbo was defensive player of the year in Philly.

[bruceblitz]

Mutumbo was defensive player of the year in Philly.
I know, which is a credit to him, Jordan won MVP's past his prime as well, that being said, Mutumbo was a liability on the offensive end.

[Interminator]

I'm not even bothered by this thread...because I know it's not even close. Kobe's easily the third best player in this decade.
Who ranks above him?

Im guessing we're talking about from 2000-2010.:confusedshrug:

[D-Rose]

Mutumbo was defensive player of the year in Philly.
6th man of the year Aaron McKie.

5 guys other than AI had at least 10 PPG (rounded from 9.5 and up).

They were 5th in the L in Defensive rating (Mutumbo and Ratliff).

They beat a mediocre Indiana team, 47 win Toronto and then a good but poor defensive team in the Bucks in the ECF. Bottom line, the East was weak as hell.

[magi]

Before KG went to Boston, he played with a total of one player better than Lamar Odom, the result being he went to the WCF where said player got injured. Lamar Odom now comes off the bench for Kobe's team. KG lost in the 1st round repeatedly because he had the worst supporting casts ever. Judging these 2 players by playoff success is f'ing stupid.

Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell were not arguably better then Lamar Odom?

Cassell: 19.8 PPG, 49%, 7.3 APG in 35 MPG
Sprewell: 16.8 PPG, 41%, 3.8 RPG, 3.3 APG in 37.8 MPG

I'm sorry but Odom comes off the bench not because he is our 6th man but to give stability to our bench. He is easily our 3rd best player right now.

Don't act like KG didn't have help that year with guys like Wally Z and Troy Hudson around him. Hudson that year was like Barbosa, scary as hell off the bench with his shooting.

I don't know how you can put a player who has made 1 NBA finals, who didn't even finals MVP over a guy who has made 6 NBA finals and might actually have a finals MVP in a week or so. Not to mention simply having a more stellar resume then Garnett.

[Allstar24]

Who ranks above him?

Im guessing we're talking about from 2000-2010.:confusedshrug:
Above Kobe? Duncan and Shaq.

Shaq completely fell off the map since 06 but since he was so dominant in the early 2000s, he's #2.

[JtotheIzzo]

I know, which is a credit to him, Jordan won MVP's past his prime as well, that being said, Mutumbo was a liability on the offensive end.

he was third on the team in ppg.

[bruceblitz]

he was third on the team in ppg.
Exactly, Mutumbo averaged 11 points per game that year, hardly anything to brag about.

Just look at the Sixers starting lineup for the NBA Finals:
Allen Iverson
Aaron McKie
Dikembe Mutombo
Tyrone Hill
Jumaine Jones

(Eric Snow was also a part time starter)

One of the worst supporting casts of all time for a superstar featured in the NBA Finals.

[D-Rose]

Exactly, Mutumbo averaged 11 points per game that year, hardly anything to brag about.

Just look at the Sixers starting lineup for the NBA Finals:
Allen Iverson
Aaron McKie
Dikembe Mutombo
Tyrone Hill
Jumaine Jones

(Eric Snow was also a part time starter)

One of the worst supporting casts of all time for a superstar featured in the NBA Finals.

That is true, but you got to see that the East was weak that year.

[Roundball_Rock]

come back when Kobe wins a ring without Shaq

You mean next week? :oldlol:


robert horry has 7 rings, does that mean he's better than kobe?

I love how Horry is invoked all the time, as if Horry's contributions to his championships are anywhere near that of Kobe's. Horry: Kobe will be top 5 all-time when he retires....


KG lost in the 1st round repeatedly because he had the worst supporting casts ever.

KG was on four 50 win teams in Minnesota and managed to lose in the first round with three of them. Let's look at who he had on those teams.

In 2000 he had Terrell Brandon, who was an all-star in 1996 and 1997. Brandon put up 17 ppg and dished out 9 assists (5th best in the league). Brandon clearly>Odom.

In 2002 he still had Brandon and Wally S developed into an all-star that year, averaging 18 ppg while shooting 45.5% from 3 point lead. That team also had Chauncey Billups.

2003: KG and Wally. Wally matched his 2002 production.

2004: KG has a stacked team that was the #1 seed in the West. He still had Wally but the team added Sam Cassell, who averaged 20 points and 7 assists, as well as Latrell Sprewell who chipped in 17 ppg.

KG has not exactly had great teams, aside from 2004 and in Boston, but it is a myth that he played on horrible teams until he came to Boston.


Don't act like KG didn't have help that year with guys like Wally Z and Troy Hudson around him. Hudson that year was like Barbosa, scary as hell off the bench with his shooting.

Oh yeah I forgot about Hudson.

[bruceblitz]

You mean next week? :oldlol:



I love how Horry is invoked all the time, as if Horry's contributions to his championships are anywhere near that of Kobe's. Horry: Kobe will be top 5 all-time when he retires....



KG was on four 50 win teams in Minnesota and managed to lose in the first round with three of them. Let's look at who he had on those teams.

In 2000 he had Terrell Brandon, who was an all-star in 1996 and 1997. Brandon put up 17 ppg and dished out 9 assists (5th best in the league). Brandon clearly>Odom.

In 2002 he still had Brandon and Wally S developed into an all-star that year, averaging 18 ppg while shooting 45.5% from 3 point lead. That team also had Chauncey Billups.

2003: KG and Wally. Wally matched his 2002 production.

2004: KG has a stacked team that was the #1 seed in the West. He still had Wally but the team added Sam Cassell, who averaged 20 points and 7 assists, as well as Latrell Sprewell who chipped in 17 ppg.

KG has not exactly had great teams, aside from 2004 and in Boston, but it is a myth that he played on horrible teams until he came to Boston.



Oh yeah I forgot about Hudson.
Stop agenda posting.

[Roundball_Rock]

Agenda: dispelling myths.

[Spudjjay]

#1) Duncan
#2) Shaq
#3) Kobe
#4) Wade
#5) Iverson
#6) KG
#7) LeBron
#8) Tony Parker
#9) Chauncey
#10) T-Mac/Dirk(Dirk could be ranked a little higher, depending on your view of the other players)

Worst list ever. Please tell me that's not your top 10 this decade... I mean, Dirk 10th? Tony Parker, T-Mac and Billups even ranked?!

Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Garnett
Nowitzki
James
Iverson
Pierce
Nash
Wade

[bruceblitz]

Agenda: dispelling myths.
Yeah right dude. Quit with the agenda, it's not a dispelling myths agenda either.

[bruceblitz]

Worst list ever. Please tell me that's not your top 10 this decade... I mean, Dirk 10th? Tony Parker, T-Mac and Billups even ranked?!

Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Garnett
Nowitzki
James
Iverson
Pierce
Nash
Wade
4-10 is extremely debatable and interchangable. You agree on the top 3. Great list.

[SCY]

[QUOTE=magi

[Spudjjay]

4-10 is extremely debatable and interchangable. You agree on the top 3. Great list.

Dirk Nowitzki has been one of the most consistent players decade. He has won a legitimate MVP, mutiple allnba and allstar appearances, Finals appearance and he's scored more points than any other foward this decade. Dirk being a top 5 player this decade isn't debatable.

[Terp in LA]

Garnett was a perennial loser in Minny for majority of the decade. He NEEDED 2 future HOFers and a great supporting cast to finally win a ring. And he didn't even win the finals MVP.

Kobe's been to the finals 6 times in the decade. He will win the title and finals MVP this year. And all he needed was a two-time Allstar.

Kobe=third best player in this decade. Period.

Co-sign.

[D-Rose]

My Top 5 is:

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Garnett
5. Dirk

[BlackMamba24]

Kobe = Best this decade and the best EVER.

KG = Overrated who can't take over games in crunch time. Still a top 5 power forward all time.

[D-Rose]

Kobe = Best this decade and the best EVER.

KG = Overrated who can't take over games in crunch time. Still a top 5 power forward all time.
Just stop. :banghead: :hammerhead:

[branslowski]

Kobe = Best this decade and the best EVER.

KG = Overrated who can't take over games in crunch time. Still a top 5 power forward all time.

PPL...Please ignore this guy....He's obviously a Troll Gimmick Account of someone who wants to get the KBU railed up.....(KBU-Kobe Basher Unit)

Also, Kobe is better than KG....IMO

[KG5MVP]

yes, Kobe is better than KG, it's true.

[BlackMamba24]

Just stop. :banghead: :hammerhead:
You mad? :roll: :roll:

Everyone needs to realize the GREATNESS that is Kobe Bean Bryant.

[Sir Charles]

You Kobe Fans are a disgrace to Laker History...

You can`t handle EVIDENCE...REAL EVIDENCE (Not MVP Hype Crap, Media Hype) when its Infront of Your Eyes

Garnett > Kobe

Nothing Wrong with that...

BTW i aint even a Garnett or Kobe. I actually like Kobe`s game better but that has nothing to do with admiting who is better

[JustinJDW]

If KG had the players that Kobe was lucky enough to play with, (Shaq, Malone, Payton, Gasol, Bynum, Horry), he would have just as many, if not more Rings than Kobe. The second KG got good teammates, he won a Ring. The first year he had teammates like Kobe, he won a freaking Championship.

You guys need to look at the players. Kobe vs. KG. Not Lakers vs. Minneosta, or even Lakers vs. Boston. When comparing players, you need to compare their impact on the game. Yes, Rings matter, but you get that as a Team and that's why players sometimes look better then other players.

For example, Tim Ducan being better than KG. Many people belive this to be a fact, but in reality, KG is just as good a player as Timmy D. Timmy D was just lucky enough to have a Front Office that would build their whole team around him. Timmy D was fortunate enough to have an amazing Coach and amazing players.

KG never had that until now. Kobe has had the teammates to help him get into the Finals 6 times now. KG never had teammates like that. If KG made it to the Finals 6 times, he would probably win them all. Just like how Timmy D is undefeated and 4-0 in the Finals as the #1 Man. Just like how Shaq is 4-2 in the Finals as the #1 Man. And Kobe, after running teammates out of town, demanding trades, a horrible and probably fixed trade from Jerry West and Memphis and doing a lot of *****ing to the Front Office, finally has the teammates to get a Ring again.

It's impact on the Game people, not who has the coolest fade away jumper. The NBA Fans are starting to turn into people that think the entire game is based around the SG spot, when it is not. True NBA Fans often look at what is going on at the Defensive End during a possession. When you do this, you see the impact KG, Shaq and Timmy D have on the Game. But because they are not SG's, because they are not shoved down our throats by David Stern and the NBA, and because they don't play 1 vs. 1 Perimeter Offense like Kobe, people start to think that Kobe is better than all of them. When in reality, that is a laughable statement.

KG may be the most underrated player of the Decade, and it's kind of sad because people don't compare players and their impact on the game, they compare fadeaways and Sprite commercials.

[D-Rose]

If KG had the players that Kobe was lucky enough to play with, (Shaq, Malone, Payton, Gasol, Bynum, Horry), he would have just as many, if not more Rings than Kobe. The second KG got good teammates, he won a Ring. The first year he had teammates like Kobe, he won a freaking Championship.

You guys need to look at the players. Kobe vs. KG. Not Lakers vs. Minneosta, or even Lakers vs. Boston. When comparing players, you need to compare their impact on the game. Yes, Rings matter, but you get that as a Team and that's why players sometimes look better then other players.

For example, Tim Ducan being better than KG. Many people belive this to be a fact, but in reality, KG is just as good a player as Timmy D. Timmy D was just lucky enough to have a Front Office that would build their whole team around him. Timmy D was fortunate enough to have an amazing Coach and amazing players.

KG never had that until now. Kobe has had the teammates to help him get into the Finals 6 times now. KG never had teammates like that. If KG made it to the Finals 6 times, he would probably win them all. Just like how Timmy D is undefeated and 4-0 in the Finals as the #1 Man. Just like how Shaq is 4-2 in the Finals as the #1 Man. And Kobe, after running teammates out of town, demanding trades, a horrible and probably fixed trade from Jerry West and Memphis and doing a lot of *****ing to the Front Office, finally has the teammates to get a Ring again.

It's impact on the Game people, not who has the coolest fade away jumper. The NBA Fans are starting to turn into people that think the entire game is based around the SG spot, when it is not. True NBA Fans often look at what is going on at the Defensive End during a possession. When you do this, you see the impact KG, Shaq and Timmy D have on the Game. But because they are not SG's, because they are not shoved down our throats by David Stern and the NBA, and because they don't play 1 vs. 1 Perimeter Offense like Kobe, people start to think that Kobe is better than all of them. When in reality, that is a laughable statement.

KG may be the most underrated player of the Decade, and it's kind of sad because people don't compare players and their impact on the game, they compare fadeaways and Sprite commercials.

Malone and Payton were way past their primes. Not even an argument to make.

Bynum hasn't contributed much if any to the last 2 Finals runs.

[JustinJDW]

Before KG went to Boston, he played with a total of one player better than Lamar Odom, the result being he went to the WCF where said player got injured. Lamar Odom now comes off the bench for Kobe's team. KG lost in the 1st round repeatedly because he had the worst supporting casts ever. Judging these 2 players by playoff success is f'ing stupid.Finally, someone who isn't retarded.

KG never came close to having the cast Kobe has had. Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Robert Horry, all these players are guys KG never really had.

Kevin Garnet is a better basketball player than Kobe.

Remember, the definition of basketball player isn't fade aways.

[D-Rose]

Finally, someone who isn't retarded.

KG never came close to having the cast Kobe has had. Shaq, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Robert Horry, all these players are guys KG never really had.

Kevin Garnet is a better basketball player than Kobe.

Remember, the definition of basketball player isn't fade aways.
Again...read my post above.

Horry made some incredibly clutch shots but he's no all-star :oldlol:

[JustinJDW]

You Kobe Fans are a disgrace to Laker History...

You can`t handle EVIDENCE...REAL EVIDENCE (Not MVP Hype Crap, Media Hype) when its Infront of Your Eyes

Garnett > Kobe

Nothing Wrong with that...

BTW i aint even a Garnett or Kobe. I actually like Kobe`s game better but that has nothing to do with admiting who is betterDon't even try bro. These Kobe nut riders can't get Kobe's **** out of their mouths. KG never had the help Kobe had. And not just basketball help, but David/Stern Referee help.

Let's not forget that the Lakers should have never won the 2002 Championship. People forget about how the Kings got screwed.

[Sir Charles]

If KG had the players that Kobe was lucky enough to play with, (Shaq, Malone, Payton, Gasol, Bynum, Horry), he would have just as many, if not more Rings than Kobe. The second KG got good teammates, he won a Ring. The first year he had teammates like Kobe, he won a freaking Championship.

You guys need to look at the players. Kobe vs. KG. Not Lakers vs. Minneosta, or even Lakers vs. Boston. When comparing players, you need to compare their impact on the game. Yes, Rings matter, but you get that as a Team and that's why players sometimes look better then other players.

For example, Tim Ducan being better than KG. Many people belive this to be a fact, but in reality, KG is just as good a player as Timmy D. Timmy D was just lucky enough to have a Front Office that would build their whole team around him. Timmy D was fortunate enough to have an amazing Coach and amazing players.

KG never had that until now. Kobe has had the teammates to help him get into the Finals 6 times now. KG never had teammates like that. If KG made it to the Finals 6 times, he would probably win them all. Just like how Timmy D is undefeated and 4-0 in the Finals as the #1 Man. Just like how Shaq is 4-2 in the Finals as the #1 Man. And Kobe, after running teammates out of town, demanding trades, a horrible and probably fixed trade from Jerry West and Memphis and doing a lot of *****ing to the Front Office, finally has the teammates to get a Ring again.

It's impact on the Game people, not who has the coolest fade away jumper. The NBA Fans are starting to turn into people that think the entire game is based around the SG spot, when it is not. True NBA Fans often look at what is going on at the Defensive End during a possession. When you do this, you see the impact KG, Shaq and Timmy D have on the Game. But because they are not SG's, because they are not shoved down our throats by David Stern and the NBA, and because they don't play 1 vs. 1 Perimeter Offense like Kobe, people start to think that Kobe is better than all of them. When in reality, that is a laughable statement.

KG may be the most underrated player of the Decade, and it's kind of sad because people don't compare players and their impact on the game, they compare fadeaways and Sprite commercials.

People also don`t care about FRONTLINE GAME, nor Rebounds, Defense, Post Defense, Exterior Defense, Passing, Game Creating ( How A Players Possesions and Double Teaming Can Affect a Team or That Player While This Being An Effective Good Passer) Team Defense, Steals, Shot Blocking and Shooting Efficiently from the Field etc

They all wan`t see the "1 on 1 Drive Crap or Fadeaway Crap" on the THE PERIETER :rolleyes: isntead of Real Ball which is in Realy Frontline Oriented! it has 3 Players (not 2) and

IT IS WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN PERIMTER PLAY, Well It WAS! till Stern Ruined it For Us Real NBA Fans because of the necesity to KEEP THE JORDAN NOSTALGIA ALIVE...EVEN in the 90s Jordan was helped because the 80s Where Stacked And Deeped with GREAT FRONTLINE TEAMS...

- No Handchecking
- No Rough Play
- Free Entrance to the Lane and Paint for Perimeter Players
- Limit Rough Play In the Paint

Jordan and Stern ruined it for us :rant all because he WAS THAT GOOD he Could Impact the Game without a Great Offensive and Game Creating Frontline FROM THE PERIMTER....but guys like Iverson, Kobe, Wade will Never reach that level THEY DON`T THE MIXTURE OF SKILLS AND ATHLETICISM to do that! :confusedshrug:

EVEN THEIR PER`s and Stats etc are Hyped in the 2000s because THE GAME IS DISGNED TO FAVOR THEM unlike Frontlines Whom Can`t Even Act like Frontlines Anymore because it has become a Game not Only to Favor Perimeter Play but of PUSS-IES..


The 3 Second Rule
The Shaq Rule
The 5 Second Back to the Basket Rule: ANTI BARKLEY, ANTI SHAQ..

All Help for Perimeter Players and the JORDAN WANABEE NECESITY :rolleyes:

A Disgrace to Real NBA Fans :mad: :banghead:

[phoenix18]

At first, I thought the OP was crazy. Risking his message board life by taking on a Lake full of Kobe nut hugging Piranhas. But he is right. For most of his career, KG had Wally Sczerbiak(Whew!) as his second or third best player. That's just trifling. Most of the years he was there , KG could have gotten more help by calling 911 and having the EMT's play with him.

[TryToBeUnbias]

At first, I thought the OP was crazy. Risking his message board life by taking on a Lake full of Kobe nut hugging Piranhas. But he is right. For most of his career, KG had Wally Sczerbiak(Whew!) as his second or third best player. That's just trifling. Most of the years he was there , KG could have gotten more help by calling 911 and having the EMT's play with him.
who in here other than mamba fits that description

[seanlakers]

Yes, the league took away hand checking to keep the job of perimeter players easier!
















oh they also legalized the zone too. Whoops.

:violin:

[phoenix18]

Im not saying you, but there are a lot of posters that routinely say that kobe is the GOAT and the best ever at some many things, it gets rediculous after a while.

[KG5MVP]

At first, I thought the OP was crazy. Risking his message board life by taking on a Lake full of Kobe nut hugging Piranhas. But he is right. For most of his career, KG had Wally Sczerbiak(Whew!) as his second or third best player. That's just trifling. Most of the years he was there , KG could have gotten more help by calling 911 and having the EMT's play with him.

I would gladly lose my life for truth and what's right!!

[D-Rose]

The team that Garnett was on that went to the ECF had Sam Cassell (All-NBA 2nd team), Sprewell with 16 PPG (Let's equate him to Odom), and Wally Sczerbiak coming off an All-Star year.

Let's say Shaq = 2008 Celtics. The Celtics can still win 3 titles with this core.

Sprewell = Odom

early Billups = early Caron Butler

Production from Olowakandi = Production from Bynum

Troy Hudson in 2003 was 15 PPG 6 APG. Wally was an All-star.

From 99-00 to 03-04 the Wolves won 50, 47, 50, 51, 58 games. not scrub teams.

The production that Gasol gives is similar to what Sam Cassell brought and the Wolves were the 1st seed in the West but they lost in the WCF.

The only all-stars that Kobe has played with in their prime are Shaq and Gasol. KG has played with Cassell, Wally, Pierce, Ray Ray.

The talent difference isn't as big as people make it out to be. The Celtics team right now can go on to equal that of the LA dynasty Kobe was on, the talent level is similar.

So apart from those two teams, Kobe has been on a losing team for 3 years then gets one all star and goes to the Finals twice. KG could have done that with the talent around him in the early part of this decade.

[RazorBaLade]

Did no one notice the "Shaq won 4 titles as the best player" thing? Shaq > Wade when Heat won that year? :banana:

[phoenix18]

The team that Garnett was on that went to the ECF
They were that good in 2004? Damn.

[Abraham Lincoln]

So apart from those two teams, Kobe has been on a losing team for 3 years then gets one all star and goes to the Finals twice. KG could have done that with the talent around him in the early part of this decade.
The Western conference prior to 2004-2005 be far superior than anything since.

[D-Rose]

They were that good in 2004? Damn.
You being sarcastic? lol


The Western conference prior to 2004 be far superior..

That's true, but the West the last two years has been really competitive especially last year. 48 win GSW missed the playoffs and PHX this year as well.

[Bodhi]

If KG had the players that Kobe was lucky enough to play with, (Shaq, Malone, Payton, Gasol, Bynum, Horry), he would have just as many, if not more Rings than Kobe. The second KG got good teammates, he won a Ring. The first year he had teammates like Kobe, he won a freaking Championship.

I don't see what point you're trying to make. Every year this decade that Kobe had good teammates, he made the finals except once in 2003. Kobe has proven that he's a consistent winner. You're just guessing that KG would have been able to do the same.

[JustinJDW]

I don't see what point you're trying to make. Every year this decade that Kobe had good teammates, he made the finals except once in 2003. Kobe has proven that he's a consistent winner. You're just guessing that KG would have been able to do the same.KG would do much more if he had the teammates Kobe had. Much more. Would rival Timmy D and Shaq for the #1 Spot since Jordan. Kobe is lucky to have Hall of Fame Players and a Hall of Fame Coach.

[Bodhi]

KG would do much more if he had the teammates Kobe had. Much more. Would rival Timmy D and Shaq for the #1 Spot since Jordan. Kobe is lucky to have Hall of Fame Players and a Hall of Fame Coach.

Better than 6 finals and presumably 4 rings in ten years? That's unlikely.

[D-Rose]

KG would do much more if he had the teammates Kobe had. Much more. Would rival Timmy D and Shaq for the #1 Spot since Jordan. Kobe is lucky to have Hall of Fame Players and a Hall of Fame Coach.
The only HOF player in his PRIME that Kobe has played with is Shaq. Gasol is up for debate.

Malone and Payton were old. Payton was useless in the triangle and Malone had injury problems all year long.

[Noob Saibot]

In the regular season, Kevin Garnett was no doubt in my mind, one of the most fiercest players in the NBA. The guy could do it all. It's unfortuane that he couldn't achieve as much as Shaq, Duncan, & Kobe. Now had he played in the Eastern Conference 8 years ago instead of 2 years ago, who knows what could've happened.

[Allstar24]

KG would do much more if he had the teammates Kobe had. Much more. Would rival Timmy D and Shaq for the #1 Spot since Jordan. Kobe is lucky to have Hall of Fame Players and a Hall of Fame Coach.
STFU. "KG would do much more"...as if you know what it takes to be a winner in the NBA. Stop trolling. Nobody knows what could've happened if KG had better teammates. The bottom line is, he didn't win sh*t until he was surrounded by 2 HOFers. He missed the playoffs when he had a sh*tty team, at least Kobe made the playoffs in 06 and 07 when he had a sh*tty team.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

STFU. "KG would do much more"...as if you know what it takes to be a winner in the NBA. Stop trolling. Nobody knows what could've happened if KG had better teammates. The bottom line is, he didn't win sh*t until he was surrounded by 2 HOFers. He missed the playoffs when he had a sh*tty team, at least Kobe made the playoffs in 06 and 07 when he had a sh*tty team.:wtf: KG made the playoffs in '97, '98, '99, '00, '01, '02 and '03 with sh*itty teams.

[Allstar24]

:wtf: KG made the playoffs in '97, '98, '99, '00, '01, '02 and '03 with sh*itty teams.
I was thinking about the 2 years when Kobe made the playoffs and KG didn't: 05-06 and 06-07. But yes, of course he made the playoffs earlier because he is a great player but he didn't win anything until he had 2 HOFers playing with him.

[KG5MVP]

I was thinking about the 2 years when Kobe made the playoffs and KG didn't: 05-06 and 06-07. But yes, of course he made the playoffs earlier because he is a great player but he didn't win anything until he had 2 HOFers playing with him.


Dude the Big 3 were past their prime, don't talk about them like they're all at their prime

Franchise Index: Previous Season ▪ Next Season

Season PER:

Garnett: 25.3

Pierece: 19.6
Ray Allen: 16.4
Rondo: 15.6


Play-Offs PER:

Garnett: 23.0

Pierece: 17.4
Ray Allen: 14.9

out off the big 3, only KG played at a HoF level

[ShaqAttack3234]

KG did not win a title as the best player.


Yes he did. Garnett was better than Pierce or Allen in 2008.

Kobe still ranks above Garnett though.

[asd]

this thread wouldn't even exist if KG were healthy (and Powe). You all act like you forgot what a KG+Powe+Perkins frontcourt did to Kobe and his Lakers just one season ago

[asd]

kobe owes kg a steak dinner

[All Net]

this thread wouldn't even exist if KG were healthy (and Powe). You all act like you forgot what a KG+Powe+Perkins frontcourt did to Kobe and his Lakers just one season ago

KG was the only guy to cause major problems..Powe had one fluke breakout game where he got plenty of lucky calls to say the least...but apart from that they were good but hardly dominant. It was the guard play and the play of Posey which made the difference.

[All Net]

Dude the Big 3 were past their prime, don't talk about them like they're all at their prime

Franchise Index: Previous Season ▪ Next Season

Season PER:

Garnett: 25.3

Pierece: 19.6
Ray Allen: 16.4
Rondo: 15.6


Play-Offs PER:

Garnett: 23.0

Pierece: 17.4
Ray Allen: 14.9

out off the big 3, only KG played at a HoF level

Pierce was past his prime last year? what playoffs were you watching? Pierce at aged 30 past his prime?

Stop with the PER crap too..it never tells the full impact of players.

[KG5MVP]

Pierce was past his prime last year? what playoffs were you watching? Pierce at aged 30 past his prime?

Stop with the PER crap too..it never tells the full impact of players.

what do you base your judgement's on? media hype?

[All Net]

what do you base your judgement's on? media hype?

It's called watching and studying the game. If you were to base everything on stats then there would be quite a few players who could say they were over par with Tim Duncan over the years...stats are important but never tell the full story of a players impact on games.

[indiefan23]

Sorry, but Wade/Lebron >>> Kobe by a mile.

[amfirst]

Duncan is greater than Shaq, he won with less talent. Shaq comes in second, but if Kobe win two more rings he will over take Shaq and Duncan.

[amfirst]

KG is a complimentary team mate. He needs someone to carry the load on offense as seen in Minny. Dude can't carry a team, he needs other players to carry the load for him.

Kobe is a one man army offensive machine, he can carry the load by himself, but not every night. However, he can do better by himself than anyone else.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Duncan is greater than Shaq, he won with less talent. Shaq comes in second, but if Kobe win two more rings he will over take Shaq and Duncan.

In this decade Shaq has won more rings than Duncan and Shaq had a much more dominating prime.

For their careers they have the same amount of rings, but Shaq ranks ahead of Duncan. He was the best player on one of the few 3-peats in NBA history. Shaq has 3 all-time great finals performances, Duncan has one(2003). Shaq has 2 scoring titles and much better numbers as well. Plus Shaq was far more unstoppable offensively in his prime(hence the ridiculous amounts of double teams).

I wouldn't hold Shaq having Kobe against him. He did lead the Lakers to a 25-6 record in games that Bryant missed during the 3peat and he averaged 31.7 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.9 bpg, 59.5 FG% in those games.

And if you look at it this way David Robinson in 1999 was easily comparable to Kobe in 2000. Duncan's 2002-2003 teammates truly were below anything Shaq won with though, I'll give you that. However Duncan's Spurs teams in 2004-2005 and 2006-2007 were solid including Parker, Manu, Horry, Bowen, Finley ect.

Duncan has played with a lot of talent as well and he's played with talent consistently since 2004 or 2005.

[sbw19]

There's no denying that KG is a tremendous talent and a unique basketball player, and few could match his allaround game.

However....here's where I have a legitimate beef with the OP's assertion: in order to be considered among the best players of a decade, ANY decade, you have to have the accomplishments. I don't care if your name is Jordan or Bird or Wilt or whoever (and I certainly don't care how good your stats or PERs are)

If your accomplishments in the first 12 year of your career are....

being lottery-bound 4 times
7 first round exits
a lone conference finals show
and zero finals appearances

....then I'm sorry you're NOT a top3 players of the decade, even if your name is Kevin Garnett.

[Lamar Doom]

it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:



http://bloggedyou.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/laugh_ha_ha.jpg

oh, the internet. The NBA forum is so convoluted it's barely readable.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Not saying that KG is better this decade than Kobe(I don't think he is), but by reading some of the responses in this thread it's funny how much of a double standard exists.

Lakers fans constantly bring up Kobe's teammates as a reason why he missed the playoffs in 05 and his first round exits in 06 and 07, yet somehow, KG isn't a leader when his teammates were just as bad and he was getting ousted in the first round? The year he finally had capable teammates, he went to the WCF and his team actually played decently against a Laker team with 4 HOF. Not to mention that KG never played with a player the caliber of a prime Shaquille O'Neal or Pau Gasol in Minnesota. When he finally played with real All Star level teammates(please stop pretending that Wally Szczerbiak was a legit All Star), low and behold, he goes to the finals and wins a ring. Sam Cassell was a borderline All-Star at that point, and Spree was close to being done. Billups wasn't anywhere near the player he became in Detroit(An argument Lakers fans like to bring up when talking about Caron Butler in 05).

KG should get the same praise Kobe does just for leading a team of scrubs to the playoffs in the tough Western Conference.

[amfirst]

Iono but Latrell and Cassel back in the days were pretty good. Too bad Latrell went crazy.

Kobe was injured when Caron was with the Lakers. Plus, Caron and Kobe's game was too similar for them to work together, and Caron only broke out when he left the Lakers.

[boozehound]

[B]See this is why people don`t respect Kobe Fans you OVERRATE him till a point it bothers many whom know the game way more :rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:
way to make yourself look like an idiot by using grammatical forms well beyond your understanding of grammar.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

come back when Kobe wins a ring without Shaq

he's about to

come back when KG wins a ring without Allen and Pierce. He couldn't do it in Minny

[Sir Charles]

KG is a complimentary team mate. He needs someone to carry the load on offense as seen in Minny. Dude can't carry a team, he needs other players to carry the load for him.

Kobe is a one man army offensive machine, he can carry the load by himself, but not every night. However, he can do better by himself than anyone else.

He can do better by himself? :roll: :rolleyes:

WHEN HAS HE EVER BEEN BY HIMSELF? 2-3 SEASONS? :sleeping

GARNETT ALL HIS CAREER TIL LAST YEAR = CHAMPIONSHIP AS THE BEST PLAYER: PER IS EVIDENCE...:pimp:

But You Don`t Like Evidence that Does Not = "PERIMTER 1 on 1 FADEWAYS" thats the problem

He can Carry the Offensive Load Better but Also Less Efficient and He Can`t Do Anything Else Better than Garnett after that.

ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How come Garnett`s Defensive Impact is Superior?

Defensive Rating

2003-04 NBA 91.6 (3)
2004-05 NBA 98.7 (8)
2005-06 NBA 98.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 93.8 (1) = Best Individual Defender in the League!
2008-09 NBA 97.5 (2)!
Active 99.3 (7) = Top 7 Individual Defenders The Las Decade!

All Time Career NBA 99.3 (33) = One of the Greatest Individual Defenders of All Time!

Garnetts Season Defensive Rating: 99
Garnett`s Play-Off Defensive Rating: 100

Bryant`s Defensive Rating: 105
Bryant`s Play-Off Defensive Rating: 106

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offense:

Garnett

Season:

20.2 PPG
49.6% FG (16.3 FGAs PG) = More Efficient and Shooting Less

Play-Offs:

21.6 PPG
47.0% FG (18.4 FGA PG) = More Efficient and Shooting Less

Bryant

Season

24.8 PPG
45.5% FG (18.9 FGAs PG) = Less Effiicient and Shooting More than Garnett

Play-Offs:

24.9 PPG
44.8% FG (19.9 FGAs PG) = Less Efficient and Shooting More than Garnett

Offensive Rating

Garnett`s Season Offensive Rating: 111
Garnett`s Play-Off Offensive Rating: 106

Bryant`s Season Offensive Rating: 112
Bryant`s Play-Off Offensive Rating: 109


Bryant is slightly a Better Offensive Player, Yet Still Less Efficient Scoring Wise and has way more Usage Rate than Garnett even though he Shoots at a Lower FG%

But guess what?

Bryant had Shaq that Drawed In Double Teams and Triple Teams for OPEN SHOTS! and Now Has a TOP GAME CREATOR FC and Overall Better FRONTLINE CASTS that Make Cushion For Winning! (Frontlines = More Important than Backcourts, except for Jordan = THE ULTIMATE DREAM FOR PERIMTER PLAYERS)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Garnett the Superior Floor Defender!!!
Garnett the Superior 1 on 1 Defender!!!
Garnett the Superiror Interior Defender!!!
Garnett the Superiro Stealer!!!
Garnett the Superior Shot Blocker!!!
Garnett the Superior Rebounder!!

Garnet the Superior PASSER!!!. YES.!!!!

1-How Many PFs average 4-6 APG? VERY FEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-How Many SGs Average 4-6 APG? MANY!.......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garnett`s PER = Individual Efficiency Per Minute > Bryant`s

Barnett`s EFF = Per Season History > Bryant`s

Garnett`s Statistical +/- Individual All Around Game Impact > Bryant`s

IMPACT!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

All This Having Pathetic Weak Casts Compared to Bryant

1st Time With a Great Cast in his Prime = Championship

Bryant Needs a TOP 10 Active PER Player PAU GASOL to Get to the Finals, plus Odom a Top Defending and All Around SF-PF and Bynum A SolId Center that along Gasol brings Presence: Lenght, Rebounding, Shot Blocking !!!

The Lakers have a BI3 plus BRYANT!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Garnett is the More Impactful Efficient Player
Garnett is the Superior All Around Player
Garnett is a Player that Makes Other Better than Kobe...


There Really is OTHER SKILLS, FORMS OF IMPACT, AND POSITIONS

That Are Not Jordanesque and Do Not Rely on "1 on 1 Fadeways"

Really There Is! :violin:

[JellyBean]

KG has no bigger fan than me, but to put him ahead of Kobe...now that is just silly.

[KG5MVP]

Not saying that KG is better this decade than Kobe(I don't think he is), but by reading some of the responses in this thread it's funny how much of a double standard exists.

Lakers fans constantly bring up Kobe's teammates as a reason why he missed the playoffs in 05 and his first round exits in 06 and 07, yet somehow, KG isn't a leader when his teammates were just as bad and he was getting ousted in the first round? The year he finally had capable teammates, he went to the WCF and his team actually played decently against a Laker team with 4 HOF. Not to mention that KG never played with a player the caliber of a prime Shaquille O'Neal or Pau Gasol in Minnesota. When he finally played with real All Star level teammates(please stop pretending that Wally Szczerbiak was a legit All Star), low and behold, he goes to the finals and wins a ring. Sam Cassell was a borderline All-Star at that point, and Spree was close to being done. Billups wasn't anywhere near the player he became in Detroit(An argument Lakers fans like to bring up when talking about Caron Butler in 05).

KG should get the same praise Kobe does just for leading a team of scrubs to the playoffs in the tough Western Conference.

exactly, when Kobe leads a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs and lose in first round, he is praised. When KG leads and bunch of scrubs to the playoffs and lose in the first round, he is called a loser and choker.

[KG5MVP]

He can do better by himself? :roll: :rolleyes:

WHEN HAS HE EVER BEEN BY HIMSELF? 2-3 SEASONS? :sleeping

GARNETT ALL HIS CAREER TIL LAST YEAR = CHAMPIONSHIP AS THE BEST PLAYER: PER IS EVIDENCE...:pimp:

But You Don`t Like Evidence that Does Not = "PERIMTER 1 on 1 FADEWAYS" thats the problem

He can Carry the Offensive Load Better but Also Less Efficient and He Can`t Do Anything Else Better than Garnett after that.

ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How come Garnett`s Defensive Impact is Superior?

Defensive Rating

2003-04 NBA 91.6 (3)
2004-05 NBA 98.7 (8)
2005-06 NBA 98.2 (5)
2007-08 NBA 93.8 (1) = Best Individual Defender in the League!
2008-09 NBA 97.5 (2)!
Active 99.3 (7) = Top 7 Individual Defenders The Las Decade!

All Time Career NBA 99.3 (33) = One of the Greatest Individual Defenders of All Time!

Garnetts Season Defensive Rating: 99
Garnett`s Play-Off Defensive Rating: 100

Bryant`s Defensive Rating: 105
Bryant`s Play-Off Defensive Rating: 106

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offense:

Garnett

Season:

20.2 PPG
49.6% FG (16.3 FGAs PG) = More Efficient and Shooting Less

Play-Offs:

21.6 PPG
47.0% FG (18.4 FGA PG) = More Efficient and Shooting Less

Bryant

Season

24.8 PPG
45.5% FG (18.9 FGAs PG) = Less Effiicient and Shooting More than Garnett

Play-Offs:

24.9 PPG
44.8% FG (19.9 FGAs PG) = Less Efficient and Shooting More than Garnett

Offensive Rating

Garnett`s Season Offensive Rating: 111
Garnett`s Play-Off Offensive Rating: 106

Bryant`s Season Offensive Rating: 112
Bryant`s Play-Off Offensive Rating: 109


Bryant is slightly a Better Offensive Player, Yet Still Less Efficient Scoring Wise and has way more Usage Rate than Garnett even though he Shoots at a Lower FG%

But guess what?

Bryant had Shaq that Drawed In Double Teams and Triple Teams for OPEN SHOTS! and Now Has a TOP GAME CREATOR FC and Overall Better FRONTLINE CASTS that Make Cushion For Winning! (Frontlines = More Important than Backcourts, except for Jordan = THE ULTIMATE DREAM FOR PERIMTER PLAYERS)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Garnett the Superior Floor Defender!!!
Garnett the Superior 1 on 1 Defender!!!
Garnett the Superiror Interior Defender!!!
Garnett the Superiro Stealer!!!
Garnett the Superior Shot Blocker!!!
Garnett the Superior Rebounder!!

Garnet the Superior PASSER!!!. YES.!!!!

1-How Many PFs average 4-6 APG? VERY FEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-How Many SGs Average 4-6 APG? MANY!.......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garnett`s PER = Individual Efficiency Per Minute > Bryant`s

Barnett`s EFF = Per Season History > Bryant`s

Garnett`s Statistical +/- Individual All Around Game Impact > Bryant`s

IMPACT!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

All This Having Pathetic Weak Casts Compared to Bryant

1st Time With a Great Cast in his Prime = Championship

Bryant Needs a TOP 10 Active PER Player PAU GASOL to Get to the Finals, plus Odom a Top Defending and All Around SF-PF and Bynum A SolId Center that along Gasol brings Presence: Lenght, Rebounding, Shot Blocking !!!

The Lakers have a BI3 plus BRYANT!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Garnett is the More Impactful Efficient Player
Garnett is the Superior All Around Player
Garnett is a Player that Makes Other Better than Kobe...


There Really is OTHER SKILLS, FORMS OF IMPACT, AND POSITIONS

That Are Not Jordanesque and Do Not Rely on "1 on 1 Fadeways"

Really There Is! :violin:

dont even bother sir charles, it's not like those fools actually read the facts and proofs you provide, they simply live in their own delusional worlds and refuse to believe anything otherwise

[iggy>]

kobe is clearly 3rd best

[jjayfive]

that's a tough one... basing it purely from watching them play, i would have to give the nod to kobe....

[KG5MVP]

that's a tough one... basing it purely from watching them play, i would have to give the nod to kobe....

because KG is past his prime and is in a situation where he doesn't have to score as much

[BallPhunk]

Not saying that KG is better this decade than Kobe(I don't think he is), but by reading some of the responses in this thread it's funny how much of a double standard exists.

KG should get the same praise Kobe does just for leading a team of scrubs to the playoffs in the tough Western Conference.

YOU praise Kobe for this?

:roll:

[Bush4Ever]

Kobe should be in the third slot, but I find it rich that Kobe fans bag on KG for not winning a title in Minny when their mantra for Kobe until Gasol got on board was "can't win without enough talent".

[JtotheIzzo]

dont even bother sir charles, it's not like those fools actually read the facts and proofs you provide, they simply live in their own delusional worlds and refuse to believe anything otherwise

you are now having conversations with yourself.:lol

[D-Rose]

dont even bother sir charles, it's not like those fools actually read the facts and proofs you provide, they simply live in their own delusional worlds and refuse to believe anything otherwise
According to those stats T-MAC has been a better player this decade than Kobe. Oh and Baron Davis is a better playoff performer than Dr. J, Kobe, Bob Pettit, etc.:roll: :roll:

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

exactly, when Kobe leads a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs and lose in first round, he is praised. When KG leads and bunch of scrubs to the playoffs and lose in the first round, he is called a loser and choker. So true...:ohwell:

[D-Rose]

So true...:ohwell:
When Kobe was losing in the first round, he had crap talent around him.

When KG lost in the early 2000's in the first round, he had decent talent around him which is why they were a 50 win team.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

When Kobe was losing in the first round, he had crap talent around him.

When KG lost in the early 2000's in the first round, he had decent talent around him which is why they were a 50 win team. In what way were KG's teams better than Kobe's?

[D-Rose]

In what way were KG's teams better than Kobe's?
I'm not talking about Kobe-Shaq teams. I'm talking about Kobe and the 3 yr crap team or even the team now...I posted this earlier in this thread...


The team that Garnett was on that went to the ECF had Sam Cassell (All-NBA 2nd team), Sprewell with 16 PPG (Let's equate him to Odom), and Wally Sczerbiak coming off an All-Star year.

Let's say Shaq = 2008 Celtics. The Celtics can still win 3 titles with this core.

Sprewell = Odom

early Billups = early Caron Butler

Production from Olowakandi = Production from Bynum

Troy Hudson in 2003 was 15 PPG 6 APG. Wally was an All-star.

From 99-00 to 03-04 the Wolves won 50, 47, 50, 51, 58 games. not scrub teams.

The production that Gasol gives is similar to what Sam Cassell brought and the Wolves were the 1st seed in the West but they lost in the WCF.

The only all-stars that Kobe has played with in their prime are Shaq and Gasol. KG has played with Cassell, Wally, Pierce, Ray Ray.

The talent difference isn't as big as people make it out to be. The Celtics team right now can go on to equal that of the LA dynasty Kobe was on, the talent level is similar.

So apart from those two teams, Kobe has been on a losing team for 3 years then gets one all star and goes to the Finals twice. KG could have done that with the talent around him in the early part of this decade.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

The Wolves only had Spree and Cassell for 2 years, the 1st year they got to the conference finals, the next year there were off the court issues that prevented them from playing together as a unit.

Odom >> Hudson. And Wally benefited from all the double/tripple teams on KG, he was a 1 dimensional player.

[jjayfive]

can't really go wrong either... but watching their entire career, i feel kobe is better.... numbers, game winners, scoring, defense, awards, impact, come back wins, game performances... if kobe wins this title and mvp, he would vault ahead...

[D-Rose]

The Wolves only had Spree and Cassell for 2 years, the 1st year they got to the conference finals, the next year there were off the court issues that prevented them from playing together as a unit.

Odom >> Hudson. And Wally benefited from all the double/tripple teams on KG, he was a 1 dimensional player.
Hudson gave just as much production as Odom.

Wally was knocking down shots and puttin up 17-20 PPG, make that your production from Pau Gasol.

He had them for 2 years...Kobe has had Gasol for 2 years? 2 Finals?

Garnett had more talent with him than most would say.

[Abraham Lincoln]

The only all-stars that Kobe has played with in their prime are Shaq and Gasol. KG has played with Cassell, Wally, Pierce, Ray Ray.

This be an intricate speech technique, for Kevin Garnett has never played with a prime Pierce, Cassell, or Allen.


the Wolves were the 1st seed in the West but they lost in the WCF.

T'was a much tougher conference out West prior to the 2004 O'Neal trade. It has never been the same since excluding the Spurs and Lakers. The 2004 Timberwolves be the NBA champions relatively easily transported into the present day.

[D-Rose]

This be an intricate speech technique, for Kevin Garnett has never played with a prime Pierce, Cassell, or Allen.



T'was a much tougher conference out West prior to the 2004 O'Neal trade. It has never been the same since excluding the Spurs and Lakers. The 2004 Timberwolves be the NBA champions relatively easily transported into the present day.

Pierce, Cassell, and Allen were at least 20 PPG scorers. Malone and Payton in that class at that point in their careers is a foolish comparison. Those 3 guys were younger, stronger, and still producing.

West has been tough past 2 years as well, past two years a team that had 50 win talent and potential missed the playoffs.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Hudson gave just as much production as Odom.

Wally was knocking down shots and puttin up 17-20 PPG, make that your production from Pau Gasol.

He had them for 2 years...Kobe has had Gasol for 2 years? 2 Finals?

Garnett had more talent with him than most would say. Troy "Laker Killer" Hudson gave as much production as Odom? Troy was an extremely inefficient scorer and did nothing else other than score. Gasol was on the Lakers for 2 years, but they also had/have a great all around team.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Pierce, Cassell, and Allen were at least 20 PPG scorers. Malone and Payton in that class at that point in their careers is a foolish comparison. Those 3 guys were younger, stronger, and still producing.

Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel. But that was no contender.


West has been tough past 2 years as well, past two years a team that had 50 win talent and potential missed the playoffs.

There be strong differential between parity and quality. Aside from the Los Angeles Lakers, there be not a Western team this year or last, that would approach having the courage to consider the creedence of thinking the horrifying thought of the idea of playing against the Blazers, Spurs, Kings, Lakers, or Timberwolves teams prior to the 2004 O'Neal trade.

[gxL]

dont even bother sir charles, it's not like those fools actually read the facts and proofs you provide, they simply live in their own delusional worlds and refuse to believe anything otherwise
yeah, so you 2 vs all. and what makes your opinion matter more than all of us

[D-Rose]

Troy "Laker Killer" Hudson gave as much production as Odom? Troy was an extremely inefficient scorer and did nothing else other than score. Gasol was on the Lakers for 2 years, but they also had/have a great all around team.

Troy gave the Wolves 15/5 in his best year, sure he's an inefficient scorer but so were PGs like Marbury and Iverson. Odom doesn't score more than that. Odom's scoring can be compared to Sprewell's scoring.

Career FG% Odom 46, Hudson 40. Odom is a big man, his should be higher.

The Garnett team that was the 1st seed was also a great all around team. They were a top 5 defensive and offensive team in the league. You aren't the damn 1st seed in the West over LAL & SAS without a good team. That team had MVP Garnett, All-NBA 2nd team Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Troy Hudson, Wally Sczerbiak. That wasn't some run of the mill team. Before they even got Cassell and Sprewell they had other talent like Billups, Terrell Brandon, Gugliotta, Marbury. Give me any of those guys over Smush or Kwame.

[gxL]

In what way were KG's teams better than Kobe's?
brian cook, smush parker, kwame brown. LOL

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Troy gave the Wolves 15/5 in his best year, sure he's an inefficient scorer but so were PGs like Marbury and Iverson. Odom doesn't score more than that. Odom's scoring can be compared to Sprewell's scoring.

Career FG% Odom 46, Hudson 40. Odom is a big man, his should be higher.

The Garnett team that was the 1st seed was also a great all around team. They were a top 5 defensive and offensive team in the league. You aren't the damn 1st seed in the West over LAL & SAS without a good team. That team had MVP Garnett, All-NBA 2nd team Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Troy Hudson, Wally Sczerbiak. That wasn't some run of the mill team. Before they even got Cassell and Sprewell they had other talent like Billups, Terrell Brandon, Gugliotta, Marbury. Give me any of those guys over Smush or Kwame. Tom Gugliotta only played in KG's first 3 years, when KG wasn't in his prime. Billups was an average player when he played with 'Sota. I'll give you Terrell Brandon and Steph.

[slevin6zer0]

Haven't read any of the arguments on here, but this is what I have to add. Kobe has had more accomplishments the last decade as opposed to KG. So, I would rank him higher. But, if I had to pick one to start a team with, I woul choose KG in a heartbeat over Kobe.

[Rondo'd]

Troy gave the Wolves 15/5 in his best year, sure he's an inefficient scorer but so were PGs like Marbury and Iverson. Odom doesn't score more than that. Odom's scoring can be compared to Sprewell's scoring.

Career FG% Odom 46, Hudson 40. Odom is a big man, his should be higher.

The Garnett team that was the 1st seed was also a great all around team. They were a top 5 defensive and offensive team in the league. You aren't the damn 1st seed in the West over LAL & SAS without a good team. That team had MVP Garnett, All-NBA 2nd team Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Troy Hudson, Wally Sczerbiak. That wasn't some run of the mill team. Before they even got Cassell and Sprewell they had other talent like Billups, Terrell Brandon, Gugliotta, Marbury. Give me any of those guys over Smush or Kwame.

I've been following this thread in its entirety, and you make me question your sanity by the fact that you try to act like KG had even 50% of the cast Kobe had.

If you have KG and Shaq on the same team for 7 years, you're telling me they don't win atleast 3 championships? Kobe had 3 seasons with the same level talent KG had for his pre-boston career and he made the playoffs One season, in which they lost 4-1 in the first round.

The whole talent level debate has absolutely nothing to do with whether Kobe is better than KG vice versa. It's just that Kobe's talent level blows KG's talent level out of the water, it's not a debate at all.

[D-Rose]

I've been following this thread in its entirety, and you make me question your sanity by the fact that you try to act like KG had even 50% of the cast Kobe had.

If you have KG and Shaq on the same team for 7 years, you're telling me they don't win atleast 3 championships? Kobe had 3 seasons with the same level talent KG had for his pre-boston career and he made the playoffs One season, in which they lost 4-1 in the first round.

The whole talent level debate has absolutely nothing to do with whether Kobe is better than KG vice versa. It's just that Kobe's talent level blows KG's talent level out of the water, it's not a debate at all.

If you actually read what I wrote, I took Shaq out of the equation because in my mind Pierce+Allen = Shaq in terms of titles. This Boston team can stilll win 3 titles like Kobe did with Shaq.

This is comparing Kobe-post Shaq era to KG-Sota era. The talent level is very similar. I think the last 2 years Kobe may have had a better team than KG ever did with Minnesota (except 2004), but KG had plenty of talent to work with and could have won titles or at least a playoff series other than 2004. give 2004 Kobe Terrel Brandon and Wally Sczerbiak, that's at least past the first round unlike KG.

[Rondo'd]

If you actually read what I wrote, I took Shaq out of the equation because in my mind Pierce+Allen = Shaq in terms of titles. This Boston team can stilll win 3 titles like Kobe did with Shaq.

This is comparing Kobe-post Shaq era to KG-Sota era. The talent level is very similar. I think the last 2 years Kobe may have had a better team than KG ever did with Minnesota (except 2004), but KG had plenty of talent to work with and could have won titles or at least a playoff series other than 2004. give 2004 Kobe Terrel Brandon and Wally Sczerbiak, that's at least past the first round unlike KG.

KG was in Minnesota for 12 seasons. Kobe was post-Shaq for 3 seasons. That is way too large of a discrepancy to compare them. Kobe had Shaq for 7 seasons. The most KG will have Pierce and Allen is 5 realistically, and by that time Allen, KG, and Pierce will all be going downhiil, unlike Shaq who was only going uphill durign his time with Kobe. You just can't compare them no matter how you try to.

[D-Rose]

I've been following this thread in its entirety, and you make me question your sanity by the fact that you try to act like KG had even 50% of the cast Kobe had.

If you have KG and Shaq on the same team for 7 years, you're telling me they don't win atleast 3 championships? Kobe had 3 seasons with the same level talent KG had for his pre-boston career and he made the playoffs One season, in which they lost 4-1 in the first round.

The whole talent level debate has absolutely nothing to do with whether Kobe is better than KG vice versa. It's just that Kobe's talent level blows KG's talent level out of the water, it's not a debate at all.

Let me comment on the bolded :roll:

Kobe made the playoffs twice with KWAME BROWN AND SMUSH PARKER STARTING.

The Wolves lost in the 1st round all of these years with KG

2002-03 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (51-31)
2001-02 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (50-32)
2000-01 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (47-35)
1999-00 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (50-32)
1998-99 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (25-25)
1997-98 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (45-37)
1996-97 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (40-42)

Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/)

So for all of those years, KG had all-stars like Tom Gugliotta, Stephon Marbury, Wally Szcerbiak, Terrelll Brandon playing with him and there were repeated first round exits.

Kobe's next best player was Lamar Odom who on his best days is a borderline all-star.


LMAO @ you saying the same talent level.

[Sir Charles]

dont even bother sir charles, it's not like those fools actually read the facts and proofs you provide, they simply live in their own delusional worlds and refuse to believe anything otherwise

End Thread...:applause:

Too Much Evidence...for Kobe Groupies..

[Rondo'd]

Let me comment on the bolded :roll:

Kobe made the playoffs twice with KWAME BROWN AND SMUSH PARKER STARTING.

The Wolves lost in the 1st round all of these years with KG

2002-03 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (51-31)
2001-02 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (50-32)
2000-01 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (47-35)
1999-00 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (50-32)
1998-99 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (25-25)
1997-98 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (45-37)
1996-97 NBA Minnesota Timberwolves Lost Western Conference First Round Saunders (40-42)

Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/)

So for all of those years, KG had all-stars like Tom Gugliotta, Stephon Marbury, Wally Szcerbiak, Terrelll Brandon playing with him and there were repeated first round exits.

Kobe's next best player was Lamar Odom who on his best days is a borderline all-star.


LMAO @ you saying the same talent level.

I'm literally laughing at how much stock you put into guys like Tom Gugliotta, Marbury, Szcerbiak, Brandon. Marbury is the only one worth mentioning. I love how you divert attention from the 7 seasons Kobe had Shaq and his two seasons with Gasol. It's amazing how people think that others will forget things like this mid-argument.

[BlackMamba24]

Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel. But that was no contender.



There be strong differential between parity and quality. Aside from the Los Angeles Lakers, there be not a Western team this year or last, that would approach having the courage to consider the creedence of thinking the horrifying thought of the idea of playing against the Blazers, Spurs, Kings, Lakers, or Timberwolves teams prior to the 2004 O'Neal trade.
shut the **** up you ****ing moron. kobe = goat. me = High iq.

[BlackMamba24]

End Thread...:applause:

Too Much Evidence...for Kobe Groupies..
kobe is the goat no matter what you say. :pimp:

[D-Rose]

I'm literally laughing at how much stock you put into guys like Tom Gugliotta, Marbury, Szcerbiak, Brandon. Marbury is the only one worth mentioning. I love how you divert attention from the 7 seasons Kobe had Shaq and his two seasons with Gasol. It's amazing how people think that others will forget things like this mid-argument.
Gugliotta, Szcerbiak Brandon were all 20 PPG, none of which Kobe had post-shaq other than Gasol.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Kobe had Gasol. Garnett had Sam Cassell the year he made All-NBA 2nd Team.

The argument is who has done more with less help.

We all know Shaq+Garnett would be titles. We all know Kobe+Pierce+Allen would be titles. We are comparing the rest of their damn careers to show who has been the better player this decade.

Put Kobe Bryant of 2003 on a team with Latrell Sprewell, Sam Casell, and Wally Sczerbiak and that is definetly a title. The team had a top 5 defense and offense in the league, KG was MVP, how did he NOT win a title that year? Lakers had a corrupt team that year that beat them.

You ignore the fact that with all this talent around him, other than one year, Garnett never got out of the first round. Kobe this year has as much talent around him as some of the other Garnett teams did (Brandon, Sczerbiak, Joe Smith, Billups) or (Gugliotta/Marbury).

[KG5MVP]

Gugliotta, Szcerbiak Brandon were all 20 PPG, none of which Kobe had post-shaq other than Gasol.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Kobe had Gasol. Garnett had Sam Cassell the year he made All-NBA 2nd Team.

The argument is who has done more with less help.

We all know Shaq+Garnett would be titles. We all know Kobe+Pierce+Allen would be titles. We are comparing the rest of their damn careers to show who has been the better player this decade.

Put Kobe Bryant of 2003 on a team with Latrell Sprewell, Sam Casell, and Wally Sczerbiak and that is definetly a title. The team had a top 5 defense and offense in the league, KG was MVP, how did he NOT win a title that year? Lakers had a corrupt team that year that beat them.

You ignore the fact that with all this talent around him, other than one year, Garnett never got out of the first round. Kobe this year has as much talent around him as some of the other Garnett teams did (Brandon, Sczerbiak, Joe Smith, Billups).

they were way too young, they just came into the league, and are expected to lead the team far into the playoffs.

When kobe just came into the league, he had Shaq to carry him, he couldn't carry himself until he was in his late 20s during his prime

[D-Rose]

they were way too young, they just came into the league, and are expected to lead the team far into the playoffs.

When kobe just came into the league, he had Shaq to carry him, he couldn't carry himself until he was in his late 20s during his prime
KG as 23-27 from the time the Minnesota team was at its peak. He was in his prime, putting up huge numbers and won the MVP. He had talent around him as I've proven. Didn't win anything other than 2004.

[KG5MVP]

KG as 23-27 from the time the Minnesota team was at its peak. He was in his prime, putting up huge numbers and won the MVP. He had talent around him as I've proven. Didn't win anything other than 2004.

because until 2004 he's had all **** supporting cast

[Luigi]

Please let this thread die.

My post doesn't perpetuate it, because it has been the most active post for the last hour and you can't bump the top thread.

[KG5MVP]

Maybe you should all see the tragedy surrounding the wolves during KG's years there, poor management, bad luck, untalented players, horrible trades... lone wolf

1995/96: With the selection of Kevin Garnett changes were abound for the Timberwolves as Christian Laettner is traded along with Sean Rooks to the Atlanta Hawks for Andrew Lang and Spud Webb. The trade paved the way for rookie Kevin Garnett to become the go to player inside. Garnett would go on to average 10.4 ppg in his rookie season as the T-Wolves finished in 5th place with a 26-56 record.

1996/97: The Timberwolves enter the season with a new look and a new attitude as they replace their tame looking logo with a more ferocious looking Timberwolf. In addition the T-Wolves would find another star player in the draft as they select Stephon Marbury the 4th overall pick. The addition of Mrarbury would have a positive effect on the entire team, as Kevin Garnett and Tom Gugliotta became the first Wolves to be selected to the All-Star team. Guglotta and Garnett would lead the Timberwolves in scoring as the team made the playoffs for the firs time in franchise history with a record of 40-42. However, in the playoffs the Timberwolves would make a quick exit as they are swept by the Houston Rockets in three straight games.

1997/98: Kevin Garnett and Stephon Marbury continue to establish themselves as 2 of the brightest rising stars in the NBA as Garnett averages 18.5 ppg while pulling down 9.6 rebounds per game, while Marbury averages 17.7 ppg, and dishes out 8.6 assists per game. Despite losing leading scorer Tom Gugliotta for half the season the Timberwolves would go on to post their first winning season at 45-37 making the playoffs for the 2nd straight season. After dropping Game 1 on the road to the Seattle Supersonics in the playoffs the Timberwolves would earn their first postseason win in Game 2 winning in Seattle 98-93. As the series shifted to Minnesota the Timberwolves would have an opportunity to pull of the upset as they won Game 3 by a score of 98-90. However, the Wolves would drop Game 4 at home as the Sonics went on to win the series in five games.

1998/99: A year after signing Kevin Garnett to an unprecedented 6-year $126 million contract, the Timberwolves are used as the poster child if irresponsible spending as the NBA endures a 4-month lockout that wipes out the season. With an already cap heavy payroll the Wolves are forced to let Tom Gugliotta walk away and trade Stephon Marbury fearing both would seek similar deals to Garnett. In the 3-team midseason deal that sent Marbury to the New Jersey Nets the T-Wolves would get Terrell Brandon in return. Despite the instability the Wolves would make the playoffs for the 3rd straight season by finishing in 4th place with a 25-25 record. In the playoffs the Timberwolves would make another quick exit as they are beaten by the San Antonio Spurs in four games.

1999/00: Led by Kevin Garnett who averages 22.9 ppg and 11.8 rebounds per game the Timberwolves enjoy their first 50-win season finishing in 3rd place with a solid record of 50-32, as rookie Wally Szczerbiak has a solid season finishing third on the team in scoring with 11.6 ppg. However, in the playoffs the Wolves would fall in the first round again losing to the Portland Trailblazers in four games.

2000/01: The Timberwolves endure a turbulent off season as Guard Malik Sealy is tragically killed in a car accident in the summer, and the free agent deal signed by Joe Smith is voided by the NBA, who rules the Timberwolves proper procedure in signing the contract, while stripping the T-Wolves of 5 draft picks and fined $3.5 million. Despite the trouble the Wolves would make the playoffs for the 5th straight season with a 47-35 record. However, in the playoffs the T-Wolves would be eliminated in the first round again by the San Antonio Spurs in four games.

2001/02: A year after they were slapped by the NBA the Timberwolves are able to sign Forward Joe Smith who averages 10.7 ppg as Kevin Garnett continues to establish himself as one of the top players in the NBA with 21. ppg and 12.1 rpg, as the T-Wolves finish in 3rd place with a 50-32 record. However, in the playoffs the Timberwolves would have another let down as they are swept by the Dallas Mavericks in three straight games.

2002/03: Kevin Garnett has his finest season yet as he finishes 2nd in MVP voting while averaging a solid 23.0 ppg and 13.4 rebounds per game as the Timberwolves finish in 3rd place with a solid 51-31 record. With home court advantage for the first time facing the 3-time defending champion Los Angeles Lakers. After being blown out at home in Game 1 the Timberwolves had a chance to take a 3-1 series lead as they led heading into the 4th quarter of Game 4 in Los Angeles. However, the Lakers would come back to win the game on the way to winning the series in six games, as the Timberwolves were eliminated in the first round for the seventh straight year.

2003/04: Hoping to end their seven years of bad luck in the playoffs the Timberwolves strengthened their team by acquiring Latrell Sprewell, Sam Cassell, and Michael Olowokandi. However incorporating the new Wolves into the lineup was difficult at first as the Wolves only managed a 9-8 record through the end of November. In December the Wolves began to gel losing just twice as they became serious contenders for the Midwest Division Title. With Garnett putting up a double-double almost every night the Timberwolves were among the best team's in the NBA all year as KG captured his first MVP by 24.2 points and 13.9 rebounds per game, as the Timberwolves captured the best overall record in the Western Conference with a franchise best 58-24 record. However through success would be measured by their performance in the playoffs. After 7-years of tough playoff opponents the T-Wolves finally had home court in a series and took advantage winning the first 2 games against the Denver Nuggets at home. After dropping Game 3 on the road the Timberwolves took a 3-1 series lead by holding off a last minute run by Nuggets for an 84-82 win. The T-Wolves would finally reach the 2nd round as they would go on to close the series in 5 games with a 102-91 victory. Things would get tougher in the 2nd Round as the Wolves faced the Sacramento Kings a tested playoff team seeking to finally make the Finals. The Timberwolves would look shaky in Game 1 as the Kings won in Minnesota 104-98. After rebounding to take Game 2 the Wolves relied on their MVP to retake control of the series as Kevin Garnett scored 15 points in the 4th Quarter as the Wolves overcame a 10-point deficit beginning the final period to force overtime where Garnett's shot with 10.8 seconds left was the difference in a 114-113 victory. After losing Game 4 the series returned to Minnesota where the Wolves beat the Kings again 86-74. However after a poor performance in Game 6 the T-Wolves would find themselves facing their first ever 7th game. As fate would happen it fell on Kevin Garnett's 28th birthday. Garnett again and again showed why he was the league's MVP scoring a game high 32 points while 21 boards as the Timberwolves advanced to the Western Conference Finals with a 83-80 victory. In the Western Conference Finals the Timberwolves faced off against the team that once called the Minneapolis home the Los Angeles Lakers. The Lakers were supposed to win from the start f the season as with 4 sure things Hall of Famers they were the storyline of the entire season. In Game 1 the Lakers drew first blood with a 97-89 victory. After rebounding to take Game 2 the Wolves needed to retake control of the season by winning in Los Angeles. However the Lakers would take both games, leaving the Wolves down 3 games to 1. The Wolves would not go down without a fight as they took Game 5 at home as Garnett scored 30 points for the first time in the series. However in the end the Lakers proved too strong and too playoff tested as they eliminated the Wolves in Game 6 with a 96-90 victory.

2004/05: Coming off a trip to the Western Conference Finals, great things were expected for the Timberwolves but there were problems right from the start as Latrell Sprewell and Sam Cassell both expressed unhappiness about their contract status. Each would carry that unhappiness on the court and would underachieve all season as both had major fall offs from the year before as the Wolves never quite were able to get anything going. Hovering around .500 all season the Timberwolves seemed to be in a season long fog as they started January by losing 7 of 8. The struggles would continue into February when Coach Flip Saunders was fired as a GM Kevin McHale stepped in to try to salvage the season. There would be no salvaging the season as the Timberwolves continued their mediocre play all season missing the playoffs for the first time since 1996 as they finished 3rd in the Northwest Division with a disappointing 44-38 record.

2005/06: Coming off a disappointing season the Timberwolves had a new coach in Dwane Casey, and some new players as Marko Jaric was acquired from the Los Angeles Clippers in a trade for Sam Cassell. Early on the new pieces seemed to fit well as the T-Wolves got off to a solid start winning 12 of their first 18 games. However, it would not last as the Timberwolves won just three of their next 14 games. Looking to make more changes the Wolves would deal Wally Szczerbiak, Dwayne Jones and Michael Olowokandi, along with a future first-round draft pick to the Boston Celtics for Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, Justin Reed, Marcus Banks, and two second round draft picks on January 26th. After the deal the Wolves would not play any better as they posted a terrible 3-11 record in February as their playoffs hopes faded away fast, as they went on to post a terrible record of 33-49, finishing in 4th place in the Northwest Division while missing the playoffs for the second straight season.

2006/07: Kevin Garnett continued to be a lone wolf, as the Timberwolves did not have much talent around him. One deal that did not work out was the draft day trade with the Portland Trail Blazers, as they swapped picks sending Brandon Roy to Portland in exchange for Randy Foye. While Foye struggled in his rookie season, Roy would excel winning the NBA Rookie of the Year. Kevin Garnett would continue to express his dissatisfaction with the Wolves, as he was having another solid season but it was going unrewarded, as the team struggled with mediocrity, as every strong stretch was met with an equal or greater losing streak as they held a 20-20 record when Coach Dwane Casey was fired and replaced with Randy Wittman. The coaching change would not work out was Timberwolves played worse under their new coach, as they ended the season with a terrible 32-50, missing the playoffs for the third straight season. Following the season the Timberwolves, would follow threw on a promise, trading Kevin Garnett the team's franchise player to the Boston Celtics for Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, two first-round draft picks, and cash considerations. This is the largest combination of players and picks ever traded for a single player in NBA history. The trade of KG was not the only deal the T-Wolves would make in the off-season, as Mike James and Justin Reed were shipped to the Houston Rockets for Juwan Howard, who would be released before playing a single game in Minnesota. They would also trade Ricky Davis and Mark Blount to the Miami Heat in exchange for the Heat's Antoine Walker, Michael Doleac, Wayne Simien, and a draft pick, as the GM Kevin McHale completely tore down the team to start from scratch.

[spursdynasty420]

I congratulate you on your ignorant post.

According to your statement, you claim Shaq relies on his athletic ability, really? Wow, go watch some footage of Shaq play. Shaq is skilled, he's not Dwight Howard. If Shaq relied solely on his athleticism, he'd be gone by now, he's already 37. You think a 300lb+ 7'1 guy could average 18ppg at age 37 if he relied on athleticism? At age 37, Shaq is nowhere near as athletic as he was back in his early years, hell even at age 30 he was in a much better position. On 30 minutes a game, he averaged 18ppg 9 boards, 2 blocks and 2 assist. Get your facts straight and hop off Duncan's dick for a bit. Typically I ignore stupid posts, but sometimes I feel I'm in an argumentative mood.

**** you duncan > broken down shaq

[D-Rose]

because until 2004 he's had all **** supporting cast
It was a 50 win team in that time span and he had all-stars with him.

Whatever, this is a useless debate because all Kobe haters and Garnett fanboys will say Garnett>Kobe this decade and other way around too. History will judge who's the better player over their career :cheers:

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

It was a 50 win team in that time span and he had all-stars with him.

Whatever, this is a useless debate because all Kobe haters and Garnett fanboys will say Garnett>Kobe this decade and other way around too. History will judge who's the better player over their career :cheers: I've already said that Kobe is 3rd with KG 4th but the way some Kobe fans have been trying to downplay what KG did in 'Sota is pathetic.

[Al Thornton]

1. KG did not win a title as the best player.
2. Kg couldn't do jack sh*t as the man in Minny, for that matter.
3. PER is for idiots who never even played the game.
4. You're retarded.

This thread is definitely retarded but KG was by far better than anyone on the Celtics last year and this year and not by stats.

[KG5MVP]

what if KG wins 2 more as the best player on the Celtics? Does that put him over Kobe?

[Ken_Masters]

1. KG did not win a title as the best player.
2. Kg couldn't do jack sh*t as the man in Minny, for that matter.
3. PER is for idiots who never even played the game.
4. You're retarded.

He just did....last year. Pierce is not better than KG.

[KG5MVP]

why do you even exist

[KG5MVP]

the great Kobe Bryant chokes once again in the finals, 5/10 ft

[D-Rose]

the great Kobe Bryant chokes once again in the finals, 5/10 ft
lmao, you act like the finals are over :oldlol:

[drza44]

I hate to bump a thread, especially one with such a controversial first post, but I just read this thread and there was some good content in here. But there were several posts that I wanted to rebut, and when I looked at them the majority were made by D-Rose. So, hopefully D-Rose is still around to read this.


The team that Garnett was on that went to the ECF had Sam Cassell (All-NBA 2nd team), Sprewell with 16 PPG (Let's equate him to Odom), and Wally Sczerbiak coming off an All-Star year.

Cassell was never even an All Star before playing next to Garnett, let alone All NBA, despite being a 34 year old vet at the time. This was the only year in his 15-year NBA career he was an All Star. Odom is better in just about every way than 33-year old Sprewell who was on his last legs before retirement. And Wally (fluke All star anyway) only played 28 games that season due to injury, and he came off the bench in the games he did play.


Let's say Shaq = 2008 Celtics. The Celtics can still win 3 titles with this core.

If you polled every NBA coach, GM, analyst, announcer, and ball boy who have ever lived and told them they could either have 7 years of Shaq in his absolute prime or a few years of Pierce/Allen in their 30s, ALL of them would take Shaq. Quickly. Easily. There would not be a single dissenting vote. Therefore, let's not say Shaq = 2008 Celtics, since no reasonable person alive would make that swap.


Sprewell = Odom

early Billups = early Caron Butler

Production from Olowakandi = Production from Bynum

Troy Hudson in 2003 was 15 PPG 6 APG. Wally was an All-star.

Again, Sprewell in his mid-30s just pre-retirement was demonstrably worse than Odom.

Early Billups does not equal early Caron Butler. Before playing with KG, Billups was considered a journeyman bust. He had never averaged even 4 assists nor shot better than 39% from the field, and had become a back-up. Before going to the Lakers, Butler had already been a first team All Rookie player and then played a solid role as a sophomore on a team that made the 2nd round in the playoffs despite playing through injury. Yes, both Billups and Butler got much better as they got older, but at the point that they joined KG/Kobe it was clear that Butler was further along than Billups was.

Did you just compare Michael Olowokandi favorably to anyone? Really?

And in 2003 Wally wasn't an All Star. He only started 42 games due to injury that year. And Hudson was a career journeyman that, again, never flourished until he played next to Garnett (and even that "flourish" was as a very limited player)...are we starting to notice the pattern of perimeter players having career seasons next to Garnett?


From 99-00 to 03-04 the Wolves won 50, 47, 50, 51, 58 games. not scrub teams.

You are forgetting a very important factor...those teams were winning that many games BECAUSE of Garnett. In fact, that's kind of the point...replacing KG with even a reasonable 20/10 guy of the time like Shareef Abdur-Rahim likely results in none of those teams even sniffing the playoffs.


The only all-stars that Kobe has played with in their prime are Shaq and Gasol. KG has played with Cassell, Wally, Pierce, Ray Ray.

The talent difference isn't as big as people make it out to be. The Celtics team right now can go on to equal that of the LA dynasty Kobe was on, the talent level is similar.

This is the worst part of your argument. Cassell and Wally were 1-time All Stars that only got that while playing next to KG. And just like Shaq vs Pierce/Allen, there isn't a single reasonable person that would have chosen the supporting cast of the 03-04 Wolves over the supporting casts of the 08 and 09 Lakers. Even so, let's look at this as a whole:

KG got 1 season playing next to a healthy Cassell (in his mid-30s).

KG has had 1.5 healthy seasons (while in his 30s) playing next to Pierce and Allen (also in their 30s).

Kobe played 7 seasons with Shaq (in Shaq's absolute prime) and has played another 2 seasons with Gasol (in Gasol's absolute prime).

So in 14 seasons, KG has had 2.5 seasons with even remotely similar (though inferior) casts than what Kobe has enjoyed for 9 of his 13 seasons. There is just no way possible to suggest that they have had similar teammates...it's not a reasonable assertion. And this isn't even getting into coaching and front office, where Kobe's are just as laughingly better than Garnett's.

If you want to argue that Kobe was better than KG or vice versa, ok, I'm glad to have that debate. But asserting and then repeatably defending the idea that their support level was in any way in the same galaxy is ridiculous.

[Samurai Swoosh]

That is true, but you got to see that the East was weak that year.
Really? Cause Iverson that year led the Sixers past the year priors Eastern Conference Champion, the Pacers. Who on experience alone should've gave the Sixers a better series than they happend to do that year. Iverson also led the Sixers past a quality Raptors team in the 2nd round with a VC who could not be stopped. And finally, the last test against what is basically the Denver Nuggets of today, the George Karl Bucks who featured a prime Same Cassell and Glenn Robinson, and an up and coming Ray Allen. That was a pretty good squad, dude.

[23ajay]

once kobe wins this championship without shaq kobe will definitly be better then garnett which will be done next week

[D-Rose]

Really? Cause Iverson that year led the Sixers past the year priors Eastern Conference Champion, the Pacers. Who on experience alone should've gave the Sixers a better series than they happend to do that year. Iverson also led the Sixers past a quality Raptors team in the 2nd round with a VC who could not be stopped. And finally, the last test against what is basically the Denver Nuggets of today, the George Karl Bucks who featured a prime Same Cassell and Glenn Robinson, and an up and coming Ray Allen. That was a pretty good squad, dude.
:oldlol:

The Pacers got worse that year...they were 41-41. 8th seed for a damn reason.

Raptors were a 47 win team with no threat other than VC.

Milwaukee was good but a crap defensive team, Philly was obviously great offensively.

[KG5MVP]

I hate to bump a thread, especially one with such a controversial first post, but I just read this thread and there was some good content in here. But there were several posts that I wanted to rebut, and when I looked at them the majority were made by D-Rose. So, hopefully D-Rose is still around to read this.



Cassell was never even an All Star before playing next to Garnett, let alone All NBA, despite being a 34 year old vet at the time. This was the only year in his 15-year NBA career he was an All Star. Odom is better in just about every way than 33-year old Sprewell who was on his last legs before retirement. And Wally (fluke All star anyway) only played 28 games that season due to injury, and he came off the bench in the games he did play.



If you polled every NBA coach, GM, analyst, announcer, and ball boy who have ever lived and told them they could either have 7 years of Shaq in his absolute prime or a few years of Pierce/Allen in their 30s, ALL of them would take Shaq. Quickly. Easily. There would not be a single dissenting vote. Therefore, let's not say Shaq = 2008 Celtics, since no reasonable person alive would make that swap.



Again, Sprewell in his mid-30s just pre-retirement was demonstrably worse than Odom.

Early Billups does not equal early Caron Butler. Before playing with KG, Billups was considered a journeyman bust. He had never averaged even 4 assists nor shot better than 39% from the field, and had become a back-up. Before going to the Lakers, Butler had already been a first team All Rookie player and then played a solid role as a sophomore on a team that made the 2nd round in the playoffs despite playing through injury. Yes, both Billups and Butler got much better as they got older, but at the point that they joined KG/Kobe it was clear that Butler was further along than Billups was.

Did you just compare Michael Olowokandi favorably to anyone? Really?

And in 2003 Wally wasn't an All Star. He only started 42 games due to injury that year. And Hudson was a career journeyman that, again, never flourished until he played next to Garnett (and even that "flourish" was as a very limited player)...are we starting to notice the pattern of perimeter players having career seasons next to Garnett?



You are forgetting a very important factor...those teams were winning that many games BECAUSE of Garnett. In fact, that's kind of the point...replacing KG with even a reasonable 20/10 guy of the time like Shareef Abdur-Rahim likely results in none of those teams even sniffing the playoffs.



This is the worst part of your argument. Cassell and Wally were 1-time All Stars that only got that while playing next to KG. And just like Shaq vs Pierce/Allen, there isn't a single reasonable person that would have chosen the supporting cast of the 03-04 Wolves over the supporting casts of the 08 and 09 Lakers. Even so, let's look at this as a whole:

KG got 1 season playing next to a healthy Cassell (in his mid-30s).

KG has had 1.5 healthy seasons (while in his 30s) playing next to Pierce and Allen (also in their 30s).

Kobe played 7 seasons with Shaq (in Shaq's absolute prime) and has played another 2 seasons with Gasol (in Gasol's absolute prime).

So in 14 seasons, KG has had 2.5 seasons with even remotely similar (though inferior) casts than what Kobe has enjoyed for 9 of his 13 seasons. There is just no way possible to suggest that they have had similar teammates...it's not a reasonable assertion. And this isn't even getting into coaching and front office, where Kobe's are just as laughingly better than Garnett's.

If you want to argue that Kobe was better than KG or vice versa, ok, I'm glad to have that debate. But asserting and then repeatably defending the idea that their support level was in any way in the same galaxy is ridiculous.

:applause: well said

[KG5MVP]

good field goal % for kobe tonight, around 30%

[Allstar24]

33/8/5--> those are the only stats that matter.