Bill Russell is the same height as Duncan and Dwight

[eliteballer]

By extension Olajuwon and Mourning as well. Even in his old age after probably having lost an inch or two from his youth. Yet he would be too small to play center today? lolz

[branslowski]

Bill Russel....6-9 215lbs playing height/weight...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

[bballer]

Those are some tall people.

[eliteballer]

Players then were measured without shoes. Today they are measured with.

[GiveItToBurrito]

The 215 pounds is actually the most shocking thing. I guess it was necessary back then, considering how much of the game consisted of running up and down the court and taking the quickest shot available.

[Showtime]

I don't believe Bill was 215 his entire career. He had to be at least 225.

[L.Kizzle]

He's was probably 215 as a rook. He looked at least 230-35 his last season.

Hell wasn't KG right a 200 when he was a rook?

[Sir Charles]

He is more like 6`10...Just compare him to Bird who is 6`9 when he is standing next to him..in the Larry Legend video or next to Duncan who is 6`11 and Kevin Garnett is more like 7`0 or very much close to it.

People put too much worry on height or weight :rolleyes: just like Athletic Abilities (just look at Hedo today...)

Yes Height Helps

Yes Weight Helps

Yes Strength Helps

Yes Leap Helps

But do you know what made Russel was a Great Rebounder and Defender apart from his Good Leap and Great Agility?


http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2008/05/080505075642-large.jpg

6`4 5/8 ft Charles Barkley Lead the League in Rebounding

6`6 3/4 ft Dennis Rodman Lead the League in Rebounding

6`7 Wes Unseld Was a Top Rebounding Center

Non Leaping Larry Bird Averaged 10 RPG for his Career.

etc

:confusedshrug:

[PP34Deuce]

It is all physical to be honest.

Charles Barkley was short but had great quick leaping ability, same with dennis rodman.

Larry Bird had long arms, Long arms with decent verticle can play a big part in rebounding and blocking shots.

[blacknapalm]

He is more like 6`10...Just compare him to Bird who is 6`9 when he is standing next to him..in the Larry Legend video or next to Duncan who is 6`11 and Kevin Garnett is more like 7`0 or very much close to it.

People put too much worry on height or weight :rolleyes: just like Athletic Abilities (just look at Hedo today...)

Yes Height Helps

Yes Weight Helps

Yes Strength Helps

Yes Leap Helps

But do you know what made Russel was a Great Rebounder and Defender apart from his Good Leap and Great Agility?


http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2008/05/080505075642-large.jpg

6`4 5/8 ft Charles Barkley Lead the League in Rebounding

6`6 3/4 ft Dennis Rodman Lead the League in Rebounding

6`7 Wes Unseld Was a Top Rebounding Center

Non Leaping Larry Bird Averaged 10 RPG for his Career.

etc

:confusedshrug:

i get it, they all had lasers emanating from their brains :D

[Lebron23]

Tim Duncan is actually a legit 6'11"


Dwight Howard was measured at 6'9" in the 2004 NBA Pre Draft Camp.

[HawkeyeCoug]

I think it is hard to get real accurate heights and weights. I think Duncan is actually 7 feet, but he wants to be considered a "power forward" as opposed to a "center." Whatever. He's been the Spurs de-facto low post player his entire career.

High school and college coaches will add an inch or two and a few pounds to their players to make them more marketable for the next level. Perhaps the worst example of this is "40 times" in football. What a bunch of crock.

Even if you have accurate height measurements, perhaps wingspan is a more important physical stat. Perhaps "standing reach" is more important. If you have a neck like a giraffe, it won't matter how tall you are.

[fefe]

It is all physical to be honest.

Charles Barkley was short but had great quick leaping ability, same with dennis rodman.

Larry Bird had long arms, Long arms with decent verticle can play a big part in rebounding and blocking shots.

I absolutely disagree.
Rebounding is not an athletic skill.
It's all about positioning and determination.

Speed and strength will help you get get in position, and once you are there jumping, height and long arms will help you grab it.
But it all starts with knowing where to go, and fighting for that position, that is why Barkley, Rodman and Bird where great rebounders.

[indiefan23]

Players then were measured without shoes. Today they are measured with.

Prove it. There has never been a rule stating teams have to list their players barefoot. A third of the league under lists their height and always have. I'm sure the same number over lists and always have as well.

[indiefan23]

I absolutely disagree.
Rebounding is not an athletic skill.

Does it hurt to know you just said one of the dumbest things you've ever said? ;0

[indiefan23]

I think it is hard to get real accurate heights and weights. I think Duncan is actually 7 feet, but he wants to be considered a "power forward" as opposed to a "center."

TD is actually 6'11.5", but he's 6'9" if you're a 60's era homer who fabricates things to prop up their favorite players. Its lovely.

[JustinJDW]

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/wp-content/uploads/2009/russellduncan.jpg

[fefe]

Does it hurt to know you just said one of the dumbest things you've ever said? ;0

No, truth is I have said much dumber things in my life :)

Jumping, strength and speed are athletic skills.
Rebounding is a technical skill, which is helped by some athletic skills.

I'm right. ;0

[indiefan23]

heres a picture showing just about nothing

I know that TD is considerably taller then Bill Russel, but a picture does not prove anything either way. Especially in the NBA where photographers are actually trained to take pictures that modify different people's heights. Photographers always sit on the ground and get as low as they can to make players appear to be bigger, taller and jumping higher then they actually are. Even wearing different colored clothes or being an inch closer to the camera can change how your brain perceives sizes of things relative to other things. There is an entire field of science called psycho-optics devoted to how wildly your brain interprets what you see. What you see is NOT reality, but an impression of it.

I slam the guys who do this to try and prove Russell==TD et all so its only fair to slam you too. Even though you're right. :)

[JustinJDW]

Dick much?

I was just posting the pic because I thought it was appropriate for this discussion. God damn, people on ISH are dick heads, nutriders and stupid. **** all of ya.

[indiefan23]

No, truth is I have said much dumber things in my life :)

Jumping, strength and speed are athletic skills.
Rebounding is a technical skill, which is helped by some athletic skills.

I'm right. ;0

Walking is a 'skill' but without muscles you can't do it. Pushing Shaq out of the lane to grab a board is pure athleticism. You can be as skilled as you want if you're not strong you are not getting the board. You claim that its not athletic and then list a bunch of athletic FREAKS to prove your point? I dunno, what have you said that's dumber then that? Who's the best rebounder of all time who was a poor athlete, tell me please.

[indiefan23]

Dick much?

I was just posting the pic because I thought it was appropriate for this discussion. God damn, people on ISH are dick heads, nutriders and stupid. **** all of ya.

Awe, common Justin. I agreed with you... you're right and not foolish like the OP. Accept my apology for the dickishness. I'm just being fair to the silly people and giving ya equal treatment. You're cool with me though. ;0

[JustinJDW]

Awe, common Justin. I agreed with you... you're right and not foolish like the OP. Accept my apology for the dickishness. I'm just being fair to the silly people and giving ya equal treatment. You're cool with me though. ;0If that's the case, then here is a free cookie.

http://pixiestixkidspix.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/cookie-bite-web.jpg

Everybody likes free cookies. They are delicious, and free.

[fefe]

Walking is a 'skill' but without muscles you can't do it. Pushing Shaq out of the lane to grab a board is pure athleticism. You can be as skilled as you want if you're not strong you are not getting the board. You claim that its not athletic and then list a bunch of athletic FREAKS to prove your point? I dunno, what have you said that's dumber then that? Who's the best rebounder of all time who was a poor athlete, tell me please.

I don't know what are you talking about...
If you read my posts you'll realize they don't consist anything that can be argued if you have brain...
The most important part of rebounding is positioning. Everybody knows that.

Best rebounder, who was a poor athlete? probably Danny Fortson.
Jason Kidd also comes to mind, though he was not a poor athlete, but he certainly didn't use his strength and jumping to grab them, much more positioning.
Larry Bird is upthere as well, because he was not athletic, whatever you say...
Mutombo is not particularly strong fast, nor does he jump very high, but he is great rebounder.
Charles Oakley was not particularly athletic, but still a monster on the boards.
Troy Murphy and David Lee finished 2nd and 3rd in the league in rebounding this season.

I don't want to start looking up stats, but probably i'm missing some really obvious ones.

Athleticism by itself will not grab you rebounds.
see Amare, K-Mart as examples of athletic freaks who can't rebound...

[indiefan23]

I don't know what are you talking about...
If you read my posts you'll realize they don't consist anything that can be argued if you have brain...
The most important part of rebounding is positioning. Everybody knows that.

Best rebounder, who was a poor athlete? probably Danny Fortson.

Yep, thought so. Directly from Danny Forston's scouting report.


Danny Fortson emerged as a low-post terror during his sophomore
season at Cincinnati, and continued in that direction as a junior.
Fortson uses his strong frame and good leaping ability to be an
excellent rebounder.

Danny Forston was strong as an ox. ;0


Jason Kidd also comes to mind, though he was not a poor athlete, but he certainly didn't use his strength and jumping to grab them, much more positioning.

Jason Kidd crashes the boards off of misses. Cuz he's the point guard he knows who's going to shoot before everyone else. He's not really a rebounder as much as he has privileged information he's been trained to use. Not to diminish it or anything, he's really good at it.


Larry Bird is upthere as well, because he was not athletic, whatever you say...

Larry Bird was totally athletic. He wasn't jumping out of the gym, but the guy was strong and had better quicks then anyone remembers. He was also 6'9" and like Kidd facilitated the offense giving him an advantage.


Mutombo is not particularly strong fast, nor does he jump very high, but he is great rebounder.

Dude, Mutombo is 7' freaking 2". 1. His size helps him rebound. 2. He 'is' an athletic freak. His lateral quickness at 7'2" is ridiculous. 3. Have you seen him move? For a guy who's 7'2" 250, he is absolutely an athletic freak.


Charles Oakley was not particularly athletic, but still a monster on the boards.

Charles Oakley? That guy was one of the strongest players ever. He could push Shaq off the block. WTF, you don't consider strength athletic ability?


Troy Murphy and David Lee finished 2nd and 3rd in the league in rebounding this season.

I don't want to start looking up stats, but probably i'm missing some really obvious ones.

Athleticism by itself will not grab you rebounds.
see Amare, K-Mart as examples of athletic freaks who can't rebound...

??? Kenyon Martin pulled down 10 boards a game. How can he not rebound? I mean, everyone you listed is a really great athlete.

I mean, you're just making things up. David Lee is 6'9", 230, 7' wingspan and almost has a 3 foot vertical. Here is his scouting report. Notice the VERY first thing they say.



David Lee NBA Draft Scouting Report

by:
September 26, 2004
Strengths
A terrific athlete. High riser that loves to dunk with authority. Extremely quick and mobile in the post. Has bulked up significantly, putting on over 15 pounds of pure muscle and dropping his body fat from 12% to 7%. Runs the floor well and is always a streaking threat on the break.

Heres a hint... nearly every single player in the NBA is an athletic freak in one way or another. There are poop loads of people who have all the things you're talking about in spades but because they're not athletic enough they can't make it. A lot of people on ISH really need to watch ball on some different levels up close and personal to see exactly how great some of the truly crappy players are. Kwame Brown was a bust in the NBA but in any other league he'd be an allstar/MVP candidate. If you're rebounding well in the NBA, I can guarentee you one thing: you are a wicked, wicked athlete.

[indiefan23]

If that's the case, then here is a free cookie.

http://www.legsclubagogo.com/images/dancers/tn_Legs-Club-Agogo-Bar-Pattaya-Thailand-Girls-001_JPG.jpg

Why thank you for your cookie sir! I give in return, thai bar girls. They are also delicious, and while not free, are incredibly cheap.

[indiefan23]

Anyone else find it amusing how the OP has totally disapeared from his own thread once he realized like everyone else who argues this old school height thing: he's totally wrong?

[JohnnySic]

There's this silly idea that Russell wa small/short for a center. Russell would be 6'11" in todays' inflated, sneaker-height league. Even in his 70's he is almost as tall as KG:

http://www.nba.com/media/finals2008/bigrusriv_080617.jpg

[Sir Charles]

Looks to me that Russel just tried to make his accomplishment greater in Slowing Down bigger and taller STILT (only thing he could do) by calling himself 6`9 when he is more like 6`10 closer to 6`11. No need for that :no: we all know he was a Great Rebounder and Defender despite being smaller than Chamberlain...

[chocolatethunder]

??? Kenyon Martin pulled down 10 boards a game. How can he not rebound? I mean, everyone you listed is a really great athlete.


Who? He averaged 10 boards a game ONCE in his career when he only played TWO GAMES THAT SEASON. Is that really averaging 10 rpg? He is a terrible rebounder for a guy that can jump well. He is a career 7.1 rpg player. He averaged 6 last year and his best season he averaged 9.5 rpg. Wake up. That guy is garbage. Talked s h i t on VanHorn for having an awful finals, then the next year Martin himself didn't show up for the finals, a reporter called him on it and what he said about VanHorn, and Martin wouldn't respond. He is a punk.

[VCMVP1551]

Looks to me that Russel just tried to make his accomplishment greater in Slowing Down bigger and taller STILT (only thing he could do) by calling himself 6`9 when he is more like 6`10 closer to 6`11. No need for that :no: we all know he was a Great Rebounder and Defender despite being smaller than Chamberlain...

You mean like how Barkley claims he's 6'4" to make his accomplishments at PF more impressive when he's really about 6'6"? :D

[indiefan23]

There's this silly idea that Russell wa small/short for a center. Russell would be 6'11" in todays' inflated, sneaker-height league. Even in his 70's he is almost as tall as KG:

http://www.nba.com/media/finals2008/bigrusriv_080617.jpg

I wrote this to JustinJDW before about people like you. He wasn't being ridiculous, but you are.

A picture does not prove anything either way. Especially in the NBA where photographers are actually trained to take pictures that modify different people's heights. Photographers always sit on the ground and get as low as they can to make players appear to be bigger, taller and jumping higher then they actually are. Even wearing different colored clothes or being an inch closer to the camera can change how your brain perceives sizes of things relative to other things. There is an entire field of science called psycho-optics devoted to how wildly your brain interprets what you see. What you see is NOT reality, but an impression of it.

Photographers are even trained to position people further/closer to the camera to make them bigger/smaller for the purposes of compositional integrity of the photo. If you look at their feet people are in totally different positions, not a straight line. People are also wearing different clothing and that can change perception. Even if in a line that was straight you could simply order them in different positions and ask a person to list by height and change their results that way. KG's head is tilted and that changes the perception. Hell, man, even something as silly as posture can add 2-4 inches between two people in a pic.

And, except for the FACT that KG is measured 6'11" barefoot, and lists himself that way. With shoes on KG is 7'1" using the 2 inch system of stupidity that old school homers like to fabricate, Bill Russel is still a totally undersized center when KG legitimately plays PF, and he's 7'1". Its garbage.