Charles Barkley vs Malone (In Their Primes ages 23-32 Head to Head)

[Sir Charles]

BARKLEY VS MALONE (PRIMES)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

Ages 23 to 32: Seasons 1986-87 to 1995-96 as Focal Scorers and Players.

Total of 26 Games: ages 23 to 32

They Played 11 More Games: ages 33-36: When Barkley Was a Role Player, 2nd Fiddle and 2nd-3rd Scoring Option

*Excluding the 1985-86 Season because the Stats aren`t found for that season: both Barkley and Malone where age 22
*BTW Barkley and Malone are te same age:

Malone came to the NBA at age 22 (1985-86)
Barkley came to the NBA At age 21 (1984-85)

*Including Barkley`s Injury In 1993-94 and the fact he was set to retire after the 1994-95 season.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Played:

Barkley

966 MPG/ 26 games

37.2 MPG

Malone

983 MPG /26 games

37.8 MPG

*Malone Played More

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scoring Efficiency

Charles Barkley

204 FGs / 399 FGAs
594 Pts / 26

22.8 PPG

(15.3 FGAs PG *Shooting Less)

51.13% FG


Karl Malone

231 FGs / 465 FGAs
645 Pts/ 26 games

24.8 PPG

(17.9 FGAs PG *Shooting More)

49.67% FG

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Including 2-Point FG% (A PFs Inside Scoring Efficiency Job)


Barkley: 67 Three-Point FGAs
Barkley: 20 Three-Point FGs

Barkley: 399 - 67 = 332 Two-Point FGAs
Barkley: 204 - 20 = 184 Two-Point FGs

Barkley Shot: 55.42% Two-Point FG against Malone

Malone: 15 Three-Point FGAs
Maloe: 4 Three Point FGs

Malone

465 - 15 = 450 Two Point FGAs
231 - 4 = 227 Two-Point FGs

Malone Shot 50.44% Two-Point FG against Barkley

*Barkley Shot 5% Better than Malone Inside. That`s like a Player Shooting 45% against one and the other Shooting 50% against that one....

*Malone Played More and Shot Less Effective

*Malone had THE GREATEST PASSER AND GAME CREATING POINT GUARD to DESIGN HIS SCORING - JOHN STOCKTON

Barkley was the Superior Scorer against Malone

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rebounding:

Barkley

262 / 26 games

10.1 RPG

Malone

248 / 26 games

9.5 RPG

Barkley was the Superior Rebounder against Malone

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assists:

Barkley

105 / 26 games

4.0 APG

Malone

70 / 26 games

2.7 APG

*Barkely was the Way Better Assiter than Malone and Not To Forget Barkley was Doubled More than Malone

*Barkley was Also the Better Game Creator because he had to BE THE SECOND LEAD GAME CREATOR after his Point Guard for Most of his Prime

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blocks:

Barkley

16 / 26 games

0.62 BPG

Malone

20 / 26 games

0.77 BPG

*Malone Blocked Better than Barkley when facing him but we all know who was the Better Shot Blocker (Barkley)

*Not to Forget Karl Malone Had Way Better Defensive Help with Thurl Baily (could guard SFs and PFs, was quick-athletic-agil) and ofcourse

THEE BEST INTERIOR DEFENDER AND SHOT BLOCKER AND OVERAL ONE OF THE BEST DEFENDERS IN THE LATE 80s-EARLY 90s:

MARK EATON for ......PAINT DEFENDING HELP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/eatonma01.html

Defensive Rating

1982-83 NBA 97.8 (10)
1984-85 NBA 96.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 100.0 (5)
1986-87 NBA 100.2 (2)
1987-88 NBA 100.7 (2)
1988-89 NBA 97.7 (2)
1989-90 NBA 102.4 (9)
1991-92 NBA 102.5 (10)


Blocks Per Game

1982-83 NBA 3.4 (3)
1983-84 NBA 4.3 (1)
1984-85 NBA 5.6 (1)
1985-86 NBA 4.6 (2)
1986-87 NBA 4.1 (1)
1987-88 NBA 3.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 3.8 (2)
1989-90 NBA 2.5 (6)
1990-91 NBA 2.4 (7)
1991-92 NBA 2.5 (9)
Career NBA 3.5 (1)
Career 3.5 (1)

Block Pct

1982-83 NBA 9.2 (1)
1983-84 NBA 8.5 (1)
1984-85 NBA 8.7 (1)
1985-86 NBA 8.1 (2)
1986-87 NBA 7.4 (2)
1987-88 NBA 6.4 (3)
1988-89 NBA 6.5 (2)
1989-90 NBA 5.5 (6)
1991-92 NBA 6.2 (4)
Career NBA 6.9 (5)
Career 6.9 (5)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steals:

Barkley

44/ 26 games

SPG: 1.7 SPG

Malone

34/ 26 games

1.3 SPG

*Barkley was the Better Floor Defender than Malone and Yes We Know Who Was the Better Stealer (Barkley)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turn Overs:

Barkley

89/26

3.4 TOV PG

Malone

78/ 26

3.0 TOV PG

*Ofcourse Malone had Less Turn Overs...His Job Was to Wait for Stockton to Design Him the Pick and Roll or Fast Break Pass while he had to do ZERO GAME CREATING with THE BEST PASSER OF ALL TIME LEADING, a SG and a SF that Had THE SECOND AND THIRD GAME CREATING JOB

*Barkley`s Job Was To Do Everything from The PF Spot from 1986 to 1992

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal Fouls:

Barkley

95/26 games

3.7 PF

Malone

93/26 games

3.6 PF

*Barkley fouled a bit more but obviously Malone never had to Guard Barkley as much as he had to Guard him because BARKLEY WAS A MISSMATCH so there was usually 3 PLAYERS ROTATING ON HIM, including Malone

*It was to Prevent Karl Malone (Their Best Scorer, Rebounder and One of the Best Defenders) from Fouling Out

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FT Shooting:


*Barkley had the Edge FT Shooting against Malone but We All Know Who Was the Better FT Shooter (Malone)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dedicated to All Those Idiots Who Base The Head to Head Matchups After Their Primes from Ages 33-36: after Barkley left to Houston as a 2nd-3rd Focal Scorer and 2nd Fiddle with a Dead Back (Like Bird), Knee Injuries and Overweight...

Insead of Their Primes ages 23-32 (missing ages 22)

DON`T EVER UNDERRATE BARKLEY AGAIN!

GREETINGS!!!

[D-Rose]

Both combined: 0 titles.

[unbreakable]

Wow so maybe Barkley is in fact the 2nd best PF of all time..

either way, Tim Duncan is the greatest PF in the history of modernized sports.

[Sir Charles]

Wow so maybe Barkley is in fact the 2nd best PF of all time..

either way, Tim Duncan is the greatest PF in the history of modernized sports.

Barkley > Tim Duncan

Malone in a Fast Game > Tim Duncan

Barkley and Malone schooled Tim Duncan as aged Men...

*Titles Don`t Have to Do With Domination and Superiority but with Teams and Yes Malone and Barkley played in a Way Tougher Era than Today

[unbreakable]

LOL...

Monta Ellis in a fast game > Michael Jordan :rolleyes:

Tim Duncan in a championship game >>>>>>> Everyone not named Bill Russell .

[Sir Charles]

:oldlol:

If Barkley owned Duncan at ages 34-36 (Duncan 21-23) as a back and knee crippled aged overweight man

And Malone held is how against Tim Duncan at grandpa ages of 34-40 (Duncan ages 21-27)

Makes Me Wonder What they Could Have Done to Duncan under REAL MEN PHYSICAL RULES of the 80s and 90s :pimp:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=malonka01&p2=duncati01

Don`t Underrate Malone :no:..Duncan was Better SLIGHTLY and Only as a Center-Forward that never had to do more on his own than Malone or ofcourse Barkley...


BEST PF EVER = BARKLEY

2ND = DUNCAN or Maybe Malone

In a Fast Paced Game Id Pick Malone Without Hesitation

[unbreakable]

Duncan had more defense and clutchness in his right nut then Barkley and Malone had in their entire bodies.

[rzp]

23 - 32 : Malone = Barkley

BUUUUUUUT

32 - 40 : Malone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barkley

[Sir Charles]

23 - 32 : Malone = Barkley

BUUUUUUUT

32 - 40 : Malone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barkley


:oldlol: :roll: :sleeping :no:

22-32 Barkley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malone-Stockton Clearly

33-36 Barkley < Malone-Stockton....

Yes...After he was 288 lbs could could harly jump, had no back and knee then only then was he better...:rolleyes:(even Walton mentioned this)

Barkley owned Duncan as a crippled 288 lbs 34-36 year old man and Malone held his own as an aged 34-40 year old grandpa against Duncan.

Barkley Better than Malone in everything except FT Shooting, Pick and Rolls, Easy Breaks...

Duncan better than Barkley and Malone as a Shot Blocking Presence and NOTHING ELSE...

Clutchness? Barkley could actually Design His Shooting Off the Dribble Fron Anywhere on the Court and has made last second shots with the clock at 0.5 seconds

Duncan is a CF...Barkley and Malone where Real PFs they Faced the Basket

[noob cake]

Sir Charles uses 90% of his time changing font and color; 10% of the time writing nonsense arguing for Charles Barkely's greatness.

[branslowski]

You play to win. A Great Player leads his team to Titles. Period.

Duncan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barkley.....Even Barkley himself say's this...We can make numbers say anything....Duncan's Defense is by Far Greater than Barkley's....Your the only egg head homer who thinks otherwise..Idiot.

[Bigsmoke]

do you get tired talking about Barkley all the time Sir Charles :rolleyes:


Tim Duncan is the greatest PF ever

[Sir Charles]

There are only 2 Players in NBA History that are in THE TOP 10 All Time List of:

PER
Statistical +/-
EFF

Who are they?

Michael Jordan coinsidered THEE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME By Most (with Wilt and Kareem for many if you Count Wilts Peek and Kareem`s Peek for Lesser Years) and THEE MOST UNDERRATED GREAT PLAYER OF ALL TIME, Charles Barkley by Miles

*In Their Primes Ofcourse Wilt and Kareem.

Is It also a Coinicidence That the Real Top 20 Greatest Players of All Time Are Right in There Too?...

I Think Not...A Coincidence Can`t Be Too Often....:no: :confusedshrug:

Stop Underrating Sir Charles....

[Bigsmoke]

yo Sir Charles.

sometimes, I think you're joking with these Barkley threads homie. THATS ALL you do. and most of them arent very different from each other. get off Barkley's jock man. I'm a fan but **** dude :hammerhead:

[branslowski]

Barkley is Great...But Your OVERRATING him...Everyone who is sane know's Duncan is Better than Barkley...You think just because you Cherry Pick Stats that can be stored anyway you want them, will change the FACT that Duncan>>>Barkley?? No....

You need to get off the Hollinger Crack Pipe and wake the hell up man...

Just to justify your Hero, you put together any stats you can find to benefit him, and then Totally Disrespect Guy's who have won...Your Basically saying winning isn't important...And im willing to bet that if Barkley had 4 rings with 4 Finals MVP's, you wouldn't be disregarding the Importance Of Winners.

[Bigsmoke]

Barkley is Great...But Your OVERRATING him...Everyone who is sane know's Duncan is Better than Barkley...You think just because you Cherry Pick Stats that can be stored anyway you want them, will change the FACT that Duncan>>>Barkley?? No....

You need to get off the Hollinger Crack Pipe and wake the hell up man...

Just to justify your Hero, you put together any stats you can find to benefit him, and then Totally Disrespect Guy's who have won...Your Basically saying winning isn't important...And im willing to bet that if Barkley had 4 rings with 4 Finals MVP's, you wouldn't be disregarding the Importance Of Winners.

to me, if Barkley wasnt this 6'4 obese guy he wouldnt get this much d*cklicking form this cat

Dwayne Wade recorded over 100 block shots and he's 6'4... good for them

[Sir Charles]

to me, if Barkley wasnt this 6'4 obese guy he wouldnt get this much d*cklicking form this cat

Dwayne Wade recorded over 100 block shots and he's 6'4... good for them

Pure Stats don`t say much but Broken Down Stats say alot especially if you compare them to your teamates...

*You guys are just pissed off at me because i have prooved so many times how much you all have been underrating Barkley...

Barkely owned Duncan at ages 34-36 when he could hardly move or leal period!

If it was 80s 76ers Barkley ages 22-30 Duncan would not have lasted 1 quarter with Barkey under no handchecking puss rules when contact was allowed.

That`s good for Wade but Barkley did it while guarding guys that where usually 4-5 inches taller than him...get real...:confusedshrug:

[RocketGreatness]

Ok now you are just going overboard Sir Charles.

I have no problem with you saying Barkley is better than Malone even though, I disagree career wise. However, Barkley is not better than Duncan, you are just kidding yourself if you think he is. There are no stats to change the fact that Duncan won 4 championships and 3 of them were his Finals MVP's. You probably could argue he deserved the one in Cleveland more than he did against the Pistons.

All said and done, Duncan is a Top 10 player of all-time arguably Top 5. Barkley on the other hand isn't even Top 15. Not even sure if he's in the Top 20 to be honest with you.

[Bigsmoke]

Pure Stats don`t say much but Broken Down Stats say alot especially if you compare them to your teamates...

*You guys are just pissed off at me because i have prooved so many times how much you all have been underrating Barkley...

Barkely owned Duncan at ages 34-36 when he could hardly move or leal period!

If it was 80s 76ers Barkley ages 22-30 Duncan would not have lasted 1 quarter with Barkey under no handchecking puss rules when contact was allowed.

That`s good for Wade but Barkley did it while guarding guys that where usually 4-5 inches taller than him...get real...:confusedshrug:



but why teach us sh*t that we already know:confusedshrug:

Kevin Garnett also pull higher stats than Timmy but that doesnt mean he's better

[Hotshoot]

[

Barkely owned Duncan at ages 34-36 when he could hardly move or leal period!

If it was 80s 76ers Barkley ages 22-30 Duncan would not have lasted 1 quarter with Barkey under no handchecking puss rules when contact was allowed.

That`s good for Wade but Barkley did it while guarding guys that where usually 4-5 inches taller than him...get real...:confusedshrug:

[/B]
For starters i doubt Duncan would have been matched up against Barkley, Prime Barkley would have tough time rolling in pick and rolls to guard Duncan's JS plus the height advantage. Even Malone had no problem hitting those shots against Barkley hence teammates like Cliff Robinson/A.C green guarded Karl Malone not Barkley.

[Sir Charles]

but why teach us sh*t that we already know:confusedshrug:

Kevin Garnett also pull higher stats than Timmy but that doesnt mean he's better

Where does he put higher Stats?

You are talking about Pure Stats not BROKEN DOWN STATS

Duncan`s EFF, PER and Statistical +/- is Clearly Higher than Garnett`s...

Duncan is a More IMPACTFUL PLAYER because of His OFFENSIVE GAME AND INTERIOR D

While Kevin Garnett is the Better All Around Player, Passer and Floor Defender. Infact Garnett is Most Probably THEE GREATEST ALL AROUND PF of All Time

[Sir Charles]

For starters i doubt Duncan would have been matched up against Barkley, Prime Barkley would have tough time rolling in pick and rolls to guard Duncan's JS plus the height advantage. Even Malone had no problem hitting those shots against Barkley hence teammates like Cliff Robinson/A.C green guarded Karl Malone not Barkley.

1st of All

I think you know little about Barkley I`ve seen Barkley guard Centers ranging from Robert Parish, Bill Walton all the way up to Shaq himself...forcing them to leave the Paint Many Times....

2nd of All....

- Do you know who is the Player that CREATED MOST ILEGAL DEFENSES in the 80s and 90s?
- Do you know who is the Player that Had the BEST OFFENSIVE IMPACT in Olympic Game Histroy - Under Zone Defenses?
- Do you know who is the Player that Had More DEFENSIVE ROTATIONS Per Game on 1 Player Coverage in the 80s and 90s?

Thy Answer is Charles Barkley...

Duncan would have way more trouble guarding Barkley than Barkley guarding Duncan....

Wan`t Proof?

Thy Proof is Right Below These Writes..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=duncati01


*There is a Reason why Barkley needed the Constant Rotation of SFs- PFs-CFs and Cs guarding him...through a game...

Why?...Answer: 1 or 2 Quarters with the Same Type of Player Guarding... ment = FOULING OUT!!!!

Barkley`s famous Quote:

"NO PLAYER IN MY POSITION CAN OUT PLAY OR GUARD ME"

[White Chocolate]

Even though Barkley and Malone were better individual players than Duncan, I'll take the 4 time champion over either one of them anyday.

[Manute for Ever!]

I love Chuck, but I am so ****ing sick of your constant ****ing Barkley threads

I bet you wish you were Dick Bavetta, huh?

http://s-ec-sm.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2008/12/31/18/e8412aaefa4a1679f60b138dc6efbb53_5.jpg

[veilside23]

whats the need for this again?

[Sir Charles]

Even though Barkley and Malone were better individual players than Duncan, I'll take the 4 time champion over either one of them anyday.

Duncan is Better than Malone due to his more Efficient Offensive Impact in the Clutch, Superior Skilled Post Player, Ball Handler. Rebounder and ofcourse his Impact in Interior Defense cause he Realy is a basic Center


But in Floor Defense, Passing, Mid Range Shooting and Finishing or Going to the Basket... I`d give the edge to Malone.

Barkley was Better than Duncan in everything but Interior Defense.

[Skip Bayless]

Duncan is Better than Malone due to his more Efficient Offensive Impact in the Clutch, Superior Skilled Post Player, Ball Handler and his Impact in Interior Defense but in Floor Defense, Rebounding, Passing and Finishing I`d give the edge to Malone.

Barkley was Better than Duncan in everything but Interior Defense.

Duncan is by far a better player than Barkley ever was. More polished offensive player, far superior defensive player, and this shouldn't even be a debate. I should be shocked at this, but im not, because there's a high total of Kobe Bryant fans who think he is better than Jordan. They mustard up some stat's that fit their case and then try to argue you down, send you hate mail, I mean, it's a crazy world of crazy fans.

As for Malone and Barkley, yeah, I do think Barkley was better than Malone. I feel that Malone was apart of a product where 2 players made eachother (Malone & Stockton).

[White Chocolate]

Duncan is Better than Malone due to his more Efficient Offensive Impact in the Clutch, Superior Skilled Post Player, Ball Handler. Rebounder and ofcourse his Impact in Interior Defense cause he Realy is a basic Center


But in Floor Defense, Passing, Mid Range Shooting and Finishing or Going to the Basket... I`d give the edge to Malone.

Barkley was Better than Duncan in everything but Interior Defense.


Malone a better passer than Duncan? Were you blinded by Barkley's jizz?

[jmill]

Defense: Malone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barkley

[Sir Charles]

Duncan is by far a better player than Barkley ever was. More polished offensive player

More Polished Offensive Player? :oldlol: Pleaseeee :hammerhead: :banghead:

1-Barkley`s 2-Point FG% is

58% (Season) and 55% (Play-Offs Season)

He did that 5-6 Times (and around and 64% twice)

2-Only Player to Score 20 + PPG on 60% + 2-Point FG% in the last 19 Years Not Named Shaq

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NBA-Basketball/General/UBJSC-4-A-Basketball-Analytics-Primer_3549

Putting it together: Offensive Rating. By now, you're probably impatient for a number that tells us how efficient a player is overall with the possessions that he uses, and the answer comes in the form of Dean Oliver's Offensive Rating (OR). The formula is a bit complicated to reproduce here (I refer you to Oliver's excellent Basketball on Paper for its full derivation), but it suffices to say that Offensive Rating provides a rating of how many points a player scores per 100 possessions that he uses while on the floor. The league's typical rating has varied throughout history, but today stands at around 107.

The best OR belong to jump-shooting guards and, to a lesser extent, high-percentage post players. The career leaders are Steve Kerr (122.06), Reggie Miller (121.48), Magic Johnson (120.79), John Stockton (120.55), and Kiki Vandeweghe (119.49).


In general, the more possessions that a player uses, the lower we expect his OR to be, because player who use more possessions have to use more possessions in precarious situations.

If a player has a high career Usage Rate and a high OR, that indicates that he is a monster on offense. Magic Johnson falls into this category, as does Charles Barkley (119.31), Adran Dantley (118.40), the incomparable Michael Jordan (who, with the highest career Usage Rate, had a career OR of 117.97, the 13th best in history), and Dirk Nowitzki (117.80).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Offensive Rating


NBA/ABA
Rank Player ORtg

1. Steve Kerr 122.06 (CG)
2. Reggie Miller 121.48 (SG)
3. Magic Johnson* 120.79 (PG-Point F)
4. John Stockton* 120.55 (PG)
5. Chris Paul 120.54 (PG)
6. Kiki Vandeweghe 119.49 (SF-SG)
7. Sidney Moncrief 119.40 (CG-PG)
8. Charles Barkley* 119.31 (PF)

More Polished? :oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for True Shooting Pct


NBA/ABA
Rank Player TS%
1. Cedric Maxwell .6294
2. Artis Gilmore .6227
3. James Donaldson .6177
4. Adrian Dantley* .6166
5. Jeff Ruland .6152
6. Reggie Miller .6139
7. Charles Barkley* .6120
8. Magic Johnson* .6095
9. John Stockton* .6081

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Effective Field Goal Pct

NBA/ABA
Rank Player eFG%

1. Artis Gilmore .5820
2. Shaquille O'Neal .5818
3. Mark West .5804
4. Steve Johnson .5722
5. Darryl Dawkins .5721
6. James Donaldson .5706
7. Brent Barry .5703
8. Dwight Howard .5679
9. Bo Outlaw .5678
10. Steve Kerr .5642
11. Jeff Ruland .5641
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .5595
13. Bobby Jones .5583
14. Charles Barkley* .5578
15. Kevin McHale* .5554

Offensive Skills:

Could Duncan Shoot the Mid J Like Barkley?
Could Duncan Spin Like Barkley ?
*Barkley is the Precusor of Shaq`s Black Tornados
Could Duncan Go 1 on 1 Off the Dribble Like Barkley?
Could Duncan Handle the Ball Like Barkley?
Could Duncan Pass like Barkley?
Could DUncan Game Create like Barkley?
Could DUncan Lead Breaks and FInish OFf with Assists and Dunks Going Coast to Coast?

*Barkley Created Most Ilegal Defenses in the 80s and 90s
*Barkley is the Player that Had More Defensive Rotations Per Game Up Until Shaq
*Barkley and Shaq are one of the Cuases of the 5 Second Back to the Basket Rule Change
*Barkley Is the Best International Olympic Player of All Time Under Zone Rules

Proof of Barkley`s Statistical Overall Polished Skill Efficiency:

http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leaderscareer.htm?stat=eff&lg=n


Career EFF Leaders

Player EFF Seasons

1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13 3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1415

More Fun with Statistical +/-

[B]Posted by Neil Paine on February 27, 2009

The other day, I talked at some length about

[Sir Charles]

Duncan is by far a better player than Barkley ever was. More polished offensive player

More Polished Offensive Player? :oldlol: Pleaseeee :hammerhead: :banghead:

1-Barkley`s 2-Point FG% is

58% (Season) on 21.6 PPG and 55% (Play-Offs Season) on 22.5 PPG (16 Seasons)

He did that 5-6 Times (and around and 64% twice)

2-Only Player to Score 20 + PPG on 60% + 2-Point FG% in the last 19 Years Not Named Shaq

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NBA-Basketball/General/UBJSC-4-A-Basketball-Analytics-Primer_3549

Putting it together: Offensive Rating. By now, you're probably impatient for a number that tells us how efficient a player is overall with the possessions that he uses, and the answer comes in the form of Dean Oliver's Offensive Rating (OR). The formula is a bit complicated to reproduce here (I refer you to Oliver's excellent Basketball on Paper for its full derivation), but it suffices to say that Offensive Rating provides a rating of how many points a player scores per 100 possessions that he uses while on the floor. The league's typical rating has varied throughout history, but today stands at around 107.

The best OR belong to jump-shooting guards and, to a lesser extent, high-percentage post players. The career leaders are Steve Kerr (122.06), Reggie Miller (121.48), Magic Johnson (120.79), John Stockton (120.55), and Kiki Vandeweghe (119.49).


In general, the more possessions that a player uses, the lower we expect his OR to be, because player who use more possessions have to use more possessions in precarious situations.

If a player has a high career Usage Rate and a high OR, that indicates that he is a monster on offense. Magic Johnson falls into this category, as does Charles Barkley (119.31), Adran Dantley (118.40), the incomparable Michael Jordan (who, with the highest career Usage Rate, had a career OR of 117.97, the 13th best in history), and Dirk Nowitzki (117.80).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Offensive Rating


NBA/ABA
Rank Player ORtg

1. Steve Kerr 122.06 (CG)
2. Reggie Miller 121.48 (SG)
3. Magic Johnson* 120.79 (PG-Point F)
4. John Stockton* 120.55 (PG)
5. Chris Paul 120.54 (PG)
6. Kiki Vandeweghe 119.49 (SF-SG)
7. Sidney Moncrief 119.40 (CG-PG)
8. Charles Barkley* 119.31 (PF)

More Polished? :oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for True Shooting Pct


NBA/ABA
Rank Player TS%
1. Cedric Maxwell .6294
2. Artis Gilmore .6227
3. James Donaldson .6177
4. Adrian Dantley* .6166
5. Jeff Ruland .6152
6. Reggie Miller .6139
7. Charles Barkley* .6120
8. Magic Johnson* .6095
9. John Stockton* .6081

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/efg_pct_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Effective Field Goal Pct

NBA/ABA
Rank Player eFG%

1. Artis Gilmore .5820
2. Shaquille O'Neal .5818
3. Mark West .5804
4. Steve Johnson .5722
5. Darryl Dawkins .5721
6. James Donaldson .5706
7. Brent Barry .5703
8. Dwight Howard .5679
9. Bo Outlaw .5678
10. Steve Kerr .5642
11. Jeff Ruland .5641
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .5595
13. Bobby Jones .5583
14. Charles Barkley* .5578
15. Kevin McHale* .5554

Offensive Skills:

Could Duncan Shoot the Mid J Like Barkley?
Could Duncan Spin Like Barkley ?
*Barkley is the Precusor of Shaq`s Black Tornados
Could Duncan Go 1 on 1 Off the Dribble Like Barkley?
Could Duncan Handle the Ball Like Barkley?
Could Duncan Pass like Barkley?
Could DUncan Game Create like Barkley?
Could DUncan Lead Breaks and FInish OFf with Assists and Dunks Going Coast to Coast?

*Barkley Created Most Ilegal Defenses in the 80s and 90s
*Barkley is the Player that Had More Defensive Rotations Per Game Up Until Shaq
*Barkley and Shaq are one of the Cuases of the 5 Second Back to the Basket Rule Change
*Barkley Is the Best International Olympic Player of All Time Under Zone Rules

Proof of Barkley`s Statistical Overall Polished Skill Efficiency:

http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leaderscareer.htm?stat=eff&lg=n


Career EFF Leaders

Player EFF Seasons

1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1415

More Fun with Statistical +/-

Posted by Neil Paine on February 27, 2009

The other day, I talked at some length about “statistical plus/minus,” which is just a regression of pure adjusted +/- on the conventional boxscore stats. In that post, I looked into the possibility of predicting the following season using a weighted average of the 3 previous seasons’ SPM scores, but I realize that I sort of skimmed over the statistical +/- metric itself — what are its strengths and weaknesses? What kind of players does it overrate and underrate?


In an effort to better understand the metric and answer these questions, I calculated the career leaders in SPM (combined NBA + ABA, minimum 15,000 career MP) through last Saturday’s games. Here’s the list:

Player Pos G Min SPM
---------------+--+----------+--------+------
michaeljordan G 1072 41013 12.85
wiltchamberlain C 1045 47859 11.59
davidrobinson C 987 34272 10.79
lebronjames F 444 18083 10.00
charlesbarkley F 1073 39330 9.03
k.abdul-jabbar C 1560 57446 9.01
magicjohnson G 906 33245 8.82
larrybird F 897 34443 8.81
juliuserving F 1243 45227 8.57
shaquilleo'neal C 1089 39103 8.21
bobpettit F 792 30690 7.87
clydedrexler G 1086 37537 7.79
oscarrobertson G 1040 43886 7.75
hakeemolajuwon C 1238 44222 7.70
elginbaylor F 846 33863 7.59
karlmalone F 1476 54852 7.50
andreikirilenko F 533 16671 7.37
timduncan F 877 32481 7.30

far superior defensive player, and this shouldn't even be a debate. I should be shocked at this, but im not, because there's a high total of Kobe Bryant fans who think he is better than Jordan. They mustard up some stat's that fit their case and then try to argue you down, send you hate mail, I mean, it's a crazy world of crazy fans.

I agree Duncan was the Better Defensive Player Overall but You Also Must Admit that Barkley the Better Floor Defender (same as Garnett, Malone, Webber over DUncan) And ALSO, ONE MUST ADMIT DUNCAN...Played with Another Top 3 Center (Top 3 PER even in the 2000s) *Helps Alot on Your Defense and DRT (same as Mark Eaton with Karl Malone) and NOW PLAYS AS A CENTER next to PF.

You Shall Also Admit Barkley was a WAY BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYER: SCORING, GAME CREATING WISE (Goes Beyond Stats) AND EFFICIENCY WISE

As for Malone and Barkley, yeah, I do think Barkley was better than Malone. I feel that Malone was apart of a product where 2 players made eachother (Malone & Stockton).

True...The Problem with Malone and Stockton they where Not Multi Dimensional They Where as Purest as PF and PG there could be so They Could Not Make Others Better Through Skills That Wen`t Beyond Their Positions:

Duncan is sort of Multi-Dimensional but not as much as Barkley. He is a CF that plus Guard Centers and Big PFs . Can Pass from there like that of a PF, Post Up Like a PF, Score like a Pf and also...Block like a Center etc...

Barkley Could do G-SF-PF-C Thins In One Motion, Was A Total Multi Posiontional/Dimensional Player like very few others Big O, Magic, Bird to name some...

But I would Take Karl Malone over Duncan if i Have a Passing Running Team by Miles a 1985 to 1995 Karl Malone was a Monster...In a That Had That Style...Malone > Duncan

Greets

[Bigsmoke]

Player Pos G Min SPM
---------------+--+----------+--------+------
michaeljordan G 1072 41013 12.85
wiltchamberlain C 1045 47859 11.59
davidrobinson C 987 34272 10.79
lebronjames F 444 18083 10.00
charlesbarkley F 1073 39330 9.03
k.abdul-jabbar C 1560 57446 9.01
magicjohnson G 906 33245 8.82
larrybird F 897 34443 8.81
juliuserving F 1243 45227 8.57
shaquilleo'neal C 1089 39103 8.21
bobpettit F 792 30690 7.87
clydedrexler G 1086 37537 7.79
oscarrobertson G 1040 43886 7.75
hakeemolajuwon C 1238 44222 7.70
elginbaylor F 846 33863 7.59
karlmalone F 1476 54852 7.50
andreikirilenko F 533 16671 7.37
timduncan F 877 32481 7.30

]

those stats are wack and you know that.

^^^ i guess David Robinson is better than Shaq and Hakeem now huh :rolleyes:

andrei kirilenko over Tim Duncan :rolleyes:

[branslowski]

those stats are wack and you know that.

^^^ i guess David Robinson is better than Shaq and Hakeem now huh :rolleyes:

andrei kirilenko over Tim Duncan :rolleyes:

My point exactly...He also has some list above that has Steve Kerr and Cedric Maxwell at the top of them to prove some point to prop Barkley...

How can anyone take Sir-Charles seriously...

Just a wall of a bunch of BS Stats..I mean, you can look at them and say, "OK", but you would fail completely if you base your whole opinion on them....I love stats..But not overboard sh!t....It's like a casual liquor drinker, a few here in there.....compared to a flaming Alcoholic.....

[chitownsfinest]

My point exactly...He also has some list above that has Steve Kerr and Cedric Maxwell at the top of them to prove some point to prop Barkley...

How can anyone take Sir-Charles seriously...

Just a wall of a bunch of BS Stats..I mean, you can look at them and say, "OK", but you would fail completely if you base your whole opinion on them....I love stats..But not overboard sh!t....It's like a casual liquor drinker, a few here in there.....compared to a flaming Alcoholic.....
Yeah one of his stats list had Cliff Levingston a better defender then Pippen and Jordan. LMAO

[Bigsmoke]

My point exactly...He also has some list above that has Steve Kerr and Cedric Maxwell at the top of them to prove some point to prop Barkley...

How can anyone take Sir-Charles seriously...

Just a wall of a bunch of BS Stats..I mean, you can look at them and say, "OK", but you would fail completely if you base your whole opinion on them....I love stats..But not overboard sh!t....It's like a casual liquor drinker, a few here in there.....compared to a flaming Alcoholic.....

Banned Sir Charles FTW?

[BlackMamba24]

barkley = garbage, fat, unathletic TRASH, piece of ****. ****ing loser.

malone > barkley.

[IInvented]

:oldlol:

If Barkley owned Duncan at ages 34-36 (Duncan 21-23) as a back and knee crippled aged overweight man

And Malone held is how against Tim Duncan at grandpa ages of 34-40 (Duncan ages 21-27)

Makes Me Wonder What they Could Have Done to Duncan under REAL MEN PHYSICAL RULES of the 80s and 90s :pimp:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=malonka01&p2=duncati01

Don`t Underrate Malone :no:..Duncan was Better SLIGHTLY and Only as a Center-Forward that never had to do more on his own than Malone or ofcourse Barkley...


BEST PF EVER = BARKLEY

2ND = DUNCAN or Maybe Malone

In a Fast Paced Game Id Pick Malone Without Hesitation

You need to get off Barkley's nuts... he's top 5 PF all time but no way he's ****ing with Malone or Duncan...

[IInvented]

barkley = garbage, fat, unathletic TRASH, piece of ****. ****ing loser.

malone > barkley.


Yo, is this KB42P@H? :confusedshrug:

[Sir Charles]

You are Comparing Hakeem to Robinson Career not in their Primes:

Dot it for 1985-86 to 1994-95 and Compare him to Robinson BOTH PLAY-OFFS (even more Important) and SEASON and Hakeem will Show as Better :rolleyes:

*Do The Same For All The Others from ages 22 to 32 (usually Prime Years) in EFF; PER and Statistical +/- and they Will Show What I Mean.

but my friend: THOU SHALL ADMIT!....that Robinson had Way More Responsabilities than Hakeem, Inferior Teamates (Lesser Deep of a Team) but Yes Hakeem was Better, He Was but Slightly (unlike many idiots tend to think) and it was pretty much do to his edge as a 1 on 1 Scorer.

*Don let the Hype Bias you from the 95 Hakeem vs Robinson 1 on 1 meeting ...as the reason why Hakeem was Better than Robinson (Its because of other Reasons) :no: Not True...

BTW i ofcourse predicted the outcome of this meeting against many laughs of friends whom had hyped Robinson because of his MVP....

Also remember, this is a measure that must take into account Players that have MORE RESPONSABITIES than OTHERS...Role Players to a More of an Extent are Provided and Made Their Jobs Easier by ....Superstars and All Stars next to them so sometimes they appear in the Top: Jordan and Pippen MADE KERR for example....as total Creators of the Triange Offense which lead to the Whole Other Teams Focusing on them for Open Shots for Kerr (rarely missed)...

In the case of Maxwell: well he was very much Underrated. He WAS ALWAYS ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENT SCORERS IN THE NBA: greatly skilled SF-PF, solid Rebounder and him and Kevin McHale did the Dirty Job in 1 on 1 Defensive Department in the Celtics having many time to Guard a Player BIrd couldn`t and didn`t wan+`t to...So in the case of Maxwell you are Underrating a Great Player...All Star Caliber...in the case of Kerr I`ve already explained: Jordan-Pippen made Kerr....

Clearer?

Regarding these examples......would have Karl Malone would have had much success Scoring Wise if he had to Design the Game Creating Job from Inside at the PF instead of having Stockton the BEST PASSER EVER and a SG and SF next to Him as 2nd and 3rd Game Creating Job Doers as Charles Barkley did? :no:

Would have Duncan been as Succesfull Physically as being the 2nd Game Creator for his Team? :no:. Duncan and Malone had Two Interior Defending Monsters with the Highest DRT in the NBA next to them for help Interiory (Duncan a Top 3-5 PER Player in the NBA) a Great Help For Your Own Defensive Stats to Improove with as Lesser Loead Taken and Very Few Game Creating Responsabilities (Pippen had more of a Load than Jordan in the Bulls) not to mention Real PGs that where unselfish and though team 1st....

That shows how good a Player is according to the amount of responsabilities he has...and Charles prooved to BE IN THE ELITE OF ALL TIME (way underrated from the Media-Fans-Hype-Rememberance) while having Way Lesser Wepons than Duncan and Malone-Stockton on his Teams....and Had To Carry Way More Load....

All The Top Players of All Time are in The Top of BROKEN DOWN STATS COINCIDENTLY AND STRANGELY...and Every Time There is an Even More of a Breaking Down of These...Barkley is prooved once again, once again! in the Spot he should be put in...this i knew way before these Broken Stats ofcourse...:pimp: :confusedshrug:

[D-Rose]

We get it you moron, you think Barkley is the GOAT, now shut the **** up.

[Sir Charles]

We get it you moron, you think Barkley is the GOAT, now shut the **** up.

:no: He is not that is either Wilt, Kareem or Jordan are the GOATs


Barkley is a Top 10 but most kiddos and biased media hyped fans wil put him in the Top 20 or even less (the hating on Barkley is historic even decades ago)

A Top 5 Statisical +/- of All Time
A Top 10 EFF of All Time
Top 10 PER Player of All Time

Can`t be ranked below that :no: ...it goes against Reality, Impact and also Against the Other Greats in the Top 5-10-20-30 + of All Time...

[D-Rose]

:no: He is not that is either Wilt, Kareem or Jordan


Barkley is a Top 10 but most kiddos and biased media hyped fans wil put him in the Top 20 or even less (the hating on Barkley is historic even decades ago)

A Top 5 Statisical +/- of All Time
A Top 10 EFF of All Time
Top 10 PER Player of All Time

Can`t be ranked below that :no: ...it goes against Reality, Impact and also Against the Other Greats in the Top 5-10-20-30 + of All Time...
You aren't top ten no matter what if you haven't won a title. That isn't even debatable even witha ll those retarted stats.

[Sir Charles]

You aren't top ten no matter what if you haven't won a title. That isn't even debatable even witha ll those retarted stats.

Ring thing again :oldlol: :rolleyes:

We are not analizing teams or rings but Players....

You are just pissed because Real Evidence Shows...that Bryant is Not Even Close to as Efficient and Dominant Player as Many GOATs not just Barkley :confusedshrug:

Why is is Impact less than Many Others?

- Because He Is Not an Efficient. His EFF is Very Low. He doesnt Make Others Better, Jobs Easier (HE NEEDS THE BEST STARING 5 IN THE GAME, A TOP 10 ACTIVE PER PLAYER AND BEFORE SHAQ and full of GREAT ROLE PLAYERS to Win)

- Doesn`t Draw Double Teams in the way MJ, Barkley, Shaq etc did and Now Lebron..forcing whole Defenses and Players to Go Away from their Man making it easier to Assist etc..

- His Defensive Abilities are Overrated and Prooven to be Statistically (Wade > Bryant as Defender)

- He is Not as Unstoppable Offensive Player per Possesion

- He is a Good Passer but with a Top Offensive Rating Player Playing the Frontcourt he should be getting 8 APG for the Whole Season.

Why can`t he Impact like the Hakeem`s, Robinsons, Shaq`s, Barkley`s, Jordan`s, Lebrons etc.....?

Because he All He Does is Play 20 ft from the Rim and Try to Create a 1 on 1 Situation for a Nice Looking Jumper to happy his own ego 1 on 1 (which he is great) "Wow I Schooled You" but that is not as Efficient as Getting to the Rim for Higher % Shots, Drawing Double Teams for Easy Assits, Rebounding on Both Ends, Shot Blocking, Stealing, Being a Top ORT Player, Being a Top DRT Player etc BEING A TOTAL BEAST!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bryant`s game is more like a Jordan-Miller Mix but VERY FAR AWAY from Jordan`s Capacity to Be Everywhere on the Court and Intimidate as a Driver, Post Up Shooter and Defender all at the Same Time do to his Superior Athletic Gifts, Speed, Power, Strength, Stamina, Leaping Ability, Hands, Ball Handling, Court Vision, Passing Game and ofcourse Agressiveness and Will to Win etc etc

*Reason Why He Can`t Impact like MJ...UUU I WANABEE LIKE MIKE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kobey`s Game Impact Wise is like Bird (all though i would take a 1981-1988 Bird over Bryant when healthy in Heartbeat) with the Difference Bird Makes Teams Better because of PASSING, GAME CREATING, REBOUNDING, INTERIOR D AND REAL...REAL LEADERSHIP...SHOWN THROUGH HIS EFF (not per minute based) and STATISTICAL +/-....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barkley is a Top 5-10 Of All Time and Evidence is Found Right There Next to Other Greats :pimp: :confusedshrug: :violin:

EFF (Look at All The Greats that Make Others Better: Bird and Russel at Top do to Extreame Fundamentals)
PER (Look All The Greats Next to Him and On Top AS IMPACT PLAYERS: Jordan)
Statistical +/- (Look at All The Greatest Next to Him and On Top as PRODUCITVE PLAYERS: Jordan)

The Media Might Not Like It
The Fans Might Not Like It
Others In The Game Might Not but the
(They Never Did Anyhow :bowdown: )

EVIDENCE is Everywhere...and I Told This Before of the Finding of Broken Down Stats (and when another appears like Statistical +/-, it prooves once again what i`ve always said)

:sleeping

[D.J.]

Barkley in his prime was better than a prime Malone, but Malone has a huge advantage when it comes to longevity. Karl Malone played for 16-17 years missing only a minimal amount of games. He was a gym rat and was in excellent physical condition right until his final playing days. Barkley disliked working out and was frequently injured. 10 years into their respective careers, Malone was still healthy, putting up great numbers, and still going deep into the playoffs with the Jazz. Barkley on the other hand, was considering retirement because his knees and back were gone.

One aspect of Barkley's game that people ignore is his defense. He was not a bad defender, but rather a lazy one. When Charles wanted to be, he was all over the court and could guard any position, 1-5. In many cases, he was incredibly lazy and gave up easy baskets. One reason in Charles' defense as to why opposing big men scored on him was because he lacked the height. He often went up against players four, five, and six inches taller than him. However, the main reason was because of his laziness.

I grew up a Barkley fan and loved him. Give me a prime Barkley to start a team because he was a great all-around player. However, give me Karl Malone to be competitive for many years in the future because he took care of himself and would rarely miss a game.

[Horatio33]

GET A LIFE SIR CHARLES!

[rzp]

Malone = 20 years of perfect work ethic and garanted 20-10 games

Malone 20 years > Barkley 5 prime years

Malone clearly the 2nd best PF ever behind Timmy aka 4 rings Duncan

Barkley is the 3rd at best (id pick KG over him maybe)

[Sir Charles]

Malone = 20 years of perfect work ethic and garanted 20-10 games

Work Ethic = Longeivity = Good Job For Him :applause: , Doest Not = Efficiency-Skill-Talent-Domination :no:

Also = You Try Harder Because You Lack Talent IMO:

Also = A Stat Piler + Stockton (another stat piler)

Malone 20 years > Barkley 5 prime years

:roll: :oldlol: :applause:

BARKLEY = 11 YEARS (AGES: 22-32) OF OWNERSHIP OVER KARL MALONE

BARKLEY

ALL TIME TOP 5 STATISTICAL +/- (Look at the Names in The Top 10)
ALL TIME TOP 10 EFF (Look at the Names in the Top 10)
ALL TIME TOP 7-8 SEASON PER (Look at the Names in the Top 10)
ALL TIME TOP 7-8 PLAY-OFF PER (Look t the Names in the Top 10)

*Barkley Also = 1 of 2 Players to be In The ALL TIME Top 5-10 In Statisical +/-, EFF and PER of All Time, The Other? Michael Jordan


Malone clearly the 2nd best PF ever behind Timmy aka 4 rings Duncan

Barkley is the 3rd at best (id pick KG over him maybe)

[B]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="4"]DREAM TEAM N

[Sir Charles]

Barkley in his prime was better than a prime Malone, but Malone has a huge advantage when it comes to longevity. Karl Malone played for 16-17 years missing only a minimal amount of games. He was a gym rat and was in excellent physical condition right until his final playing days. Barkley disliked working out and was frequently injured. 10 years into their respective careers, Malone was still healthy, putting up great numbers, and still going deep into the playoffs with the Jazz. Barkley on the other hand, was considering retirement because his knees and back were gone.

One aspect of Barkley's game that people ignore is his defense. He was not a bad defender, but rather a lazy one. When Charles wanted to be, he was all over the court and could guard any position, 1-5. In many cases, he was incredibly lazy and gave up easy baskets. One reason in Charles' defense as to why opposing big men scored on him was because he lacked the height. He often went up against players four, five, and six inches taller than him. However, the main reason was because of his laziness.

I grew up a Barkley fan and loved him. Give me a prime Barkley to start a team because he was a great all-around player. However, give me Karl Malone to be competitive for many years in the future because he took care of himself and would rarely miss a game.

Give me Barkley between ages 22-32 any PG in a Play-Off Game

40-45 pts (60-70%FG), 20-25 RBds, 6-8 Assists, 2 Blocks, 3 Steals :banghead:

Give me Karl Malone ages 22-32 In a Play-Off Game

25 pts (50%FG), 14 RBds, 5-6 Assits, 1 Block, 2 Steals

In a Slow Passed Game with No Stockton = the same thing...but 45% FG!!!

BARKLEY > Malone in Any Aspect of the Game but FT Shooting...

Healthy + Prime Barkley owned Malone
Healthy + Prime Barkley owned McHale

Crippled & Aged Barkley owned Garnett
Crippled & Aged Barkley owned Duncan

Give me Multi Dimensional Dominant Barkley that Makes Scrubs Better at ages 22-32 When Both Are At THeir Best by Miles Over....

Stat Pilers Stockton to Malone and the Sloan System of Hiding 1 Dimensional Superstars...:confusedshrug:

[momo]

Both combined: 0 titles.
/thread

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Sir Charles uses 90% of his time changing font and color; 10% of the time writing nonsense arguing for Charles Barkely's greatness.

LOL REPPED

[Shaquille O'Neal]

Give me Barkley between ages 22-32 any PG in a Play-Off Game


Barkley was good at times, but no way is better overall career-wise than Malone. Malone went to the finals three times; Barkley only once.

Duncan >>>>Malone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barkley.

[Sir Charles]

Barkley was good at times, but no way is better overall career-wise than Malone. Malone went to the finals three times; Barkley only once.

Duncan >>>>Malone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barkley.

:no: :oldlol:

Barkley > Malone ages 22-32

After He was Crippled Malone was Better

Never Before :oldlol: :cheers:

WE KNOW IT, WE CAN`T HANDLE IT..WE ARE JUST PISSED OFF THAT THE SHORTEST PLAYER TO PLAY THAT POSITION WAS ALSO THE MOST DOMINANT AT HIS POSITION.

:oldlol: I Loved It While Watching It :cheers:

That definetly made many go :rant

10 WHOLE YEARS AT BEST PER, EFF AND STATISICAL +/- =TRUTH

:confusedshrug:

[BlackMamba24]

malone would destroy barkley....barkley is garbage and would average 2/2 on 29% in today's league.....this comparison is an insult to karl's career.

malone > barkley :cheers: :applause: :bowdown:

[BlackMamba24]

:no: :oldlol:

Barkley > Malone ages 22-32

After He was Crippled Malone was Better

Never Before :oldlol: :cheers:

WE KNOW IT, WE CAN`T HANDLE IT..WE ARE JUST PISSED OFF THAT THE SHORTEST PLAYER TO PLAY THAT POSITION WAS ALSO THE MOST DOMINANT AT HIS POSITION.

:oldlol: I Loved It While Watching It :cheers:

That definetly made many go :rant

10 WHOLE YEARS AT BEST PER, EFF AND STATISICAL +/- =TRUTH

:confusedshrug:
how does it feel to be a fan of the biggest loser in nba history? a fat, unathletic chump

[Bigsmoke]

Mark West
Tim Duncan
Dan Majerle
Cedric Ceballos
Kevin Johnson

^^^ now THAT will be a team that would beat the Bulls in 93 and the Rockets in 94 :cheers:

[lolwut]

Chuck all day.

[Sir Charles]

Mark West
Tim Duncan
Dan Majerle
Cedric Ceballos
Kevin Johnson

^^^ now THAT will be a team that would beat the Bulls in 93 and the Rockets in 94 :cheers:

Yeah...Tim Duncan can draw double teams more than Barkley :roll: :hammerhead:

BTW...Duncan`s Passing Abilities are best when Playing Center

Well he is a Center.

If not Barkley is the Greatest SF Ever...

BTW...

Robinson
Barkley
Horry
Ginobili
Parker

= 10 Titles in a Row

[Sir Charles]

malone would destroy barkley....barkley is garbage and would average 2/2 on 29% in today's league.....this comparison is an insult to karl's career.

malone > barkley :cheers: :applause: :bowdown:

Explain to Me What Happened when Both Where in Their Primes and Barkley was Healthy (1993-94: even giving Karl Malone 2 more years on the beggining of Barkley`s back problems)

BARKLEY VS MALONE (PRIMES)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

Ages 23 to 32: Seasons 1986-87 to 1995-96 as Focal Scorers and Players.

Total of 26 Games: ages 23 to 32

They Played 11 More Games: ages 33-36: When Barkley Was a Role Player, 2nd Fiddle and 2nd-3rd Scoring Option

*Excluding the 1985-86 Season because the Stats aren`t found for that season: both Barkley and Malone where age 22
*BTW Barkley and Malone are te same age:

Malone came to the NBA at age 22 (1985-86)
Barkley came to the NBA At age 21 (1984-85)

*Including Barkley`s Injury In 1993-94 and the fact he was set to retire after the 1994-95 season.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Played:

Barkley

966 MPG/ 26 games

37.2 MPG

Malone

983 MPG /26 games

37.8 MPG

*Malone Played More

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scoring Efficiency

Charles Barkley

204 FGs / 399 FGAs
594 Pts / 26

22.8 PPG

(15.3 FGAs PG *Shooting Less)

51.13% FG


Karl Malone

231 FGs / 465 FGAs
645 Pts/ 26 games

24.8 PPG

(17.9 FGAs PG *Shooting More)

49.67% FG

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Including 2-Point FG% (A PFs Inside Scoring Efficiency Job)


Barkley: 67 Three-Point FGAs
Barkley: 20 Three-Point FGs

Barkley: 399 - 67 = 332 Two-Point FGAs
Barkley: 204 - 20 = 184 Two-Point FGs

Barkley Shot: 55.42% Two-Point FG against Malone

Malone: 15 Three-Point FGAs
Maloe: 4 Three Point FGs

Malone

465 - 15 = 450 Two Point FGAs
231 - 4 = 227 Two-Point FGs

Malone Shot 50.44% Two-Point FG against Barkley

*Barkley Shot 5% Better than Malone Inside. That`s like a Player Shooting 45% against one and the other Shooting 50% against that one....

*Malone Played More and Shot Less Effective

*Malone had THE GREATEST PASSER AND GAME CREATING POINT GUARD to DESIGN HIS SCORING - JOHN STOCKTON

Barkley was the Superior Scorer against Malone

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rebounding:

Barkley

262 / 26 games

10.1 RPG

Malone

248 / 26 games

9.5 RPG

Barkley was the Superior Rebounder against Malone

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assists:

Barkley

105 / 26 games

4.0 APG

Malone

70 / 26 games

2.7 APG

*Barkely was the Way Better Assiter than Malone and Not To Forget Barkley was Doubled More than Malone

*Barkley was Also the Better Game Creator because he had to BE THE SECOND LEAD GAME CREATOR after his Point Guard for Most of his Prime

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You think im 20 Years old?

You Think Im Going to Believe What The Media Says?

I Did See a Healthy Barkley Destroy Malone Every Game Up Untill 1995 and All That Anti Barkley Sh-it I Was Used to At That Time and Now Even More as He Has Now Become Thee Most Underrated Great of All Time by Miles..

Get Real Kid...You Can`t Fake Me...I Saw Barkley Own Everyone Live before his Injuries

*Read Second Paragraph!!!

http://storage.people.com/jpgs/19931025/19931025-750-78.jpg

CB4 = THEE 4

TOP 10 ALL TIME EFF, PERR AND STATISTICAL +/-

MOST DOMINANT PF OF ALL TIME!!! :rolleyes:

[Manute for Ever!]

Yeah...Tim Duncan can draw double teams more than Barkley :roll: :hammerhead:

BTW...Duncan`s Passing Abilities are best when Playing Center

Well he is a Center.

If not Barkley is the Greatest SF Ever...

BTW...

Robinson
Barkley
Horry
Ginobili
Parker

= 10 Titles in a Row

You are beyond retarded, Tim Duncan is a PF!!! Also, if Chuck couldn't win even 1 with the lineups he had, how does he get 10 straight with that team? :banghead:

[bizil]

In my mind along with Timmy the top 3 PF's of all time. I think overall Barkley was the better player. But when you factor in longevity you probably have to go Malone. Remember in his last year with the Lakers he was killin it until he got hurt. If you think about it Karl never really fell off hard like other greats of his generation. Think about Ewing, Mullin, Nique, Pippen, Chuck and Dream. It wasnt pretty at the end. I think Stockton aged well like Karl did as well. Chuck was a shell of his former self at the end. Karl was killin at age 40. By then you would have took Timmy, KG, C-Webb and Dirk ahead of him at the four. But after that you could argue Karl was the number the number 5 power forward in the league. And this was in the golden age of the four. Karl was damn near like the Kareem of PF's when it came to aging well. Karl's injury might have cost himself and the Lakers a ring that year. But up until that injury Karl was playing damn good and to me was still All Star caliber. He was still capable of putting up 20+ a night. But with Kobe and Shaq he was the third option.

But make no mistake I'm not a Malone fan Ima Barkley fan. I feel Chuck at his best was better than Karl at his best. Rebounding, ball handling, and passing I give the edge to Chuck. Scoring I call it a draw or slightly in Malone's favor, even though Chuck had more range. Defense I go to Karl all the way. Chuck was really a combo PF\SF! There were seasons in Philly where Chuck started at the three. So Chuck just like Magic, Bird, and KG revolutionized a position.

[Sir Charles]

In my mind along with Timmy the top 3 PF's of all time. I think overall Barkley was the better player. But when you factor in longevity you probably have to go Malone. Remember in his last year with the Lakers he was killin it until he got hurt. If you think about it Karl never really fell off hard like other greats of his generation. Think about Ewing, Mullin, Nique, Pippen, Chuck and Dream. It wasnt pretty at the end. I think Stockton aged well like Karl did as well. Chuck was a shell of his former self at the end. Karl was killin at age 40. By then you would have took Timmy, KG, C-Webb and Dirk ahead of him at the four. But after that you could argue Karl was the number the number 5 power forward in the league. And this was in the golden age of the four. Karl was damn near like the Kareem of PF's when it came to aging well. Karl's injury might have cost himself and the Lakers a ring that year. But up until that injury Karl was playing damn good and to me was still All Star caliber. He was still capable of putting up 20+ a night. But with Kobe and Shaq he was the third option.

But make no mistake I'm not a Malone fan Ima Barkley fan. I feel Chuck at his best was better than Karl at his best. Rebounding, ball handling, and passing I give the edge to Chuck. Scoring I call it a draw or slightly in Malone's favor, even though Chuck had more range. Defense I go to Karl all the way. Chuck was really a combo PF\SF! There were seasons in Philly where Chuck started at the three. So Chuck just like Magic, Bird, and KG revolutionized a position.

[B]I agree with most of you post ..one of the few resonable ones here :applause: but this last part is incorrect

Malone better scorer than Barkley? :no: :rolleyes: :banghead:

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG at 21.6 PPG on 12.9...Two Point FGAs Pg (Season)

Malone shot 51.9% Tw-Point FG FG at 24.7 PPG on 17.5...Two-Point FGAs PG PG (Season)

Barkley shot 55.13% FG at 22.5 PPG on 14.5 ...Two-Point FGAs PG (Play-Offs)

Malone shot 46.6% Two-Point FG at 24.6 PPG on 19.3...Two-Point FGAs PG (Play-Offs)

Barkley was a Way Superior Scorer :rolleyes:

Infact you make it sound like Barkley`s Points where Mostly Mid Range Jumpers Totally Wrong :no:

*Barkley Was Shaq in the Paint with Dantley-McHale Moves and Guard like Handles...he Began SHooting More Js when Could no Longer JUMP OR RUN like at ages 21-30

Barkley`s Points: Where Mostly 1 ON 1 THROUGH CUTTING DOUBLE TEAMIS AND HELP DEFENSES (PLAYER THAT CREATED MOST ILEGAL DEFENSES AND DEFENSIVE ROTATIONS "DO TO FEAR OF FOULING OUT):

They where composed of SPIN MOVES (Precusor of Shaq`s Black Tornados! YES!), RUMBLES TO THE BASKEK, POWER MOVES, INSIDE DUNKS, OFFENSIVE REBOUND PUT BACKS, MID RANGE SHOTS FAKE PUMP FADEAWAYS and Some EASY FINISHING DUNKS OFF FAST BREAK (ofcourse Fast Break Pts....but He Could Design His Fast Break Points)

While Karl Malone`s Pts where Usually off POWER MOVES, PICK AND ROLLS and EASY FINISHING DUNKS OFF FAST BREAK POINTS...ALL "MOSTLY" PRODUCT of the Sloan System and HIS DESIGNER: THEE GREATEST PASSER JOHN STOCKTON and LATER ON in the 90s...Developed A GOOD MID RANGE SHOT.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]On Defense...As I`ve Pointed Out Barkley on Played with a Real Center 1 Year and Finished 7th in the Defensive Rating Departament in 1985-86.. That season he avered like 2.2 SPG and 1.6 BPG .Next Season Moses Was Traded.

While Karl Malone had

[U]Top Defensive Rating Player of the 80s Finished N

[bizil]

I was just going off of Malone's PPG and the fact he's the second leading scorer of all time. No doubt Barkley was the more talented scorer and could score in more ways. And I think Barkley is the better overall player and revolutinized the PF. I'm just talking numbers wise Malone had a higher PPG career wise and total.

[23ajay]

barkley>malone

[Toizumi]

Yao>>> Dwight in head 2 head matchups this season...
yet Dwight is obviously the better player, being selected to the all nba 1st team and winning DPOY titles (and making it to the finals). HEAD TO HEAD MATCHUPS DONT TELL WHO'S THE BETTER PLAYER.

You didnt mention who had a better record h2h, so I guess it's Malone.. right? :confusedshrug: Ain't that what the game is about.. winning? Who cares about a 5% difference in FG's.. or about a 2ppg difference?

I think Barkley = Malone. I hate ranking players, especially two that are so evenly matched (tim duncan is the clear goat pf).
Both were great. Both will be in the HOF :bowdown: let it go.

[Sir Charles]

I was just going off of Malone's PPG and the fact he's the second leading scorer of all time. No doubt Barkley was the more talented scorer and could score in more ways. And I think Barkley is the better overall player and revolutinized the PF. I'm just talking numbers wise Malone had a higher PPG career wise and total.

"Anyone can Score If They Shoot Often Enough" CB4

Barkley Took 2-3 FGAs PG Lesser (4-9 Pts more missed) and Shot 4% + Higher Season FG% and 5% Higher Play-Off FG% and its just 2.9 PPG Differencial (1 Basket and 1 FT) for the Season and 2 PPG Differencial for the Play-Offs (1 Basket)

If you talk about 2-Point FG% INSIDE (INSIDE SCORING, A PFs Efficiency) its even more of a Difference!!!:

Barkley shot 7% + Higher 2-Point FG Season (only 3 PPG Less) and 11% Higher 2-Point FG for Play-Offs (on Only 1.7 PPG Less)

Barkley`s Inside Scoring Was Like Comparing a Guy that Shoots 43% in the Season while he Soots 50% and in the Play-Offs like a Guy Who Shoots 40% and you shoot 51% (Talk About Who Was The Better Clutch Scorer!!)

So Barkley is the Better Scorer :confusedshrug:

If Kobe plays 8 More Years and Surpasses Michael Jordan for Stat Piling and Acumulation was He Better? :rolleyes: :no:

Then again if you go by Numbers..

Barkley was the Better Scorer
Barkley was a Btter Rebounder
Barkley was a Better Passer/Assiter/Game Creator
Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker
Barkley was a Better Floor Defender an Stealer
Barkley was as Good Interior Defender when he had a Center (alredy prooved for the 1985-86 season when he had a Center. Malone had The Best Shot Blocker and Interior Defender of the 80s to Make It Confortable For Him Positioning Wise)
Barkley was a Better Skilled Player: Spins, Fakes, Off the Dribbles, Rumbles you name it
Barkley was a Better Shooter: Close Range, Mid Range or Far Range
Barkley was a Better 1 on 1 Player...
*Player that Created Most Missmatches, Ilegal Defenses and Defensive Rotations than Any Other Before Shaq
Barkley was a Better Clutch Performer by Miles!
Barkley was More Agil, Had More Leaping Ability, Stronger Floor Strength, Stronger Interior Strength

*As Good or Beter as a Finisher if he had Stockton (as he prooved in the Dream Team)

Barkley was a Better Ball Handler
Barkley Could Design His Scoring Coast to Coast or Dish Off
etc

Barkley was Better than Malone in every aspect of the Game but FT SHooting, Stamina, Longevity and Off Court Work Out

Only 1 Thing is a Basketball SKill..

And :no: Malone did not have Better Head to Head Matchups : when both Where Healthy Infact Barkley Owned Malone for 10 Years (ages 22-32) in Head to Head Matchups.

That is 26 Games: Accounts of 70% of the Total MatchupsThey Faced !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hammerhead:

In the Next 11 Games Barkley`s Numbers Dropped against Malone because he became a 2nd or 3rd Scoring Option between 1996-97 and 1999-2000 and because he Had Back Injuries, Knee Injuries and Could not Longer Jump (which was Essential for His Game) Like Before Before at age 33.

So it goes like this...Example If You School Me For 10 Years on 26 Games Meetings and Then You Get Injured and Go as a Role Player or 2nd-3rd Fiddle to Another Team and when You Face Me Your Numbers Drop in the Last 11 Meetings because of that...does that Mean I Was Better? :no: :rolleyes:

70% of Our Meetings You Schoold Me and Then The Last 30% I Take Advante of the Fact That You Can`t Hardly Play do to Injuries and are a 2nd-3rd Fiddle?

Then I Get The Hype for that? How Cowardly!

:rolleyes: PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

That is what People Remember the Last 30% of The Head to Head Matchups :rolleyes: :hammerhead:

Well I Remember the 70% Before!!! in where as Bill Walton like to say : "Barkley Used To Own Malone in Their Meetings Back in 93 and Before"

Finally Barkley has

Higher Statistical +/-!
Higher EFF!
Higher PER (Season and Play-Offs) !

*Even Broken Stats = + Exact Proof What I`ve Always Said

Barkley was SImply Just Better and Many Barkley Haters Know It But Won`t Say It..Even More Jazz Fans..They like to Live of 30% of that they saw and forget about the 70% before

[bizil]

"Anyone can Score If They Shoot Often Enough" CB4

Barkley Took 2-3 FGAs PG Lesser (4-9 Pts more missed) and Shot 4% + Higher Season FG% and 5% Higher Play-Off FG% and its just 2.9 PPG Differencial (1 Basket and 1 FT) for the Season and 2 PPG Differencial for the Play-Offs (1 Basket)

If you talk about 2-Point FG% INSIDE (INSIDE SCORING, A PFs Efficiency) its even more of a Difference!!!:

Barkley shot 7% + Higher 2-Point FG Season (only 3 PPG Less) and 11% Higher 2-Point FG for Play-Offs (on Only 1.7 PPG Less)

Barkley`s Inside Scoring Was Like Comparing a Guy that Shoots 43% in the Season while he Soots 50% and in the Play-Offs like a Guy Who Shoots 40% and you shoot 51% (Talk About Who Was The Better Clutch Scorer!!)

So Barkley is the Better Scorer :confusedshrug:

If Kobe plays 8 More Years and Surpasses Michael Jordan for Stat Piling and Acumulation was He Better? :rolleyes: :no:

Then again if you go by Numbers..

Barkley was the Better Scorer
Barkley was a Btter Rebounder
Barkley was a Better Passer/Assiter/Game Creator
Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker
Barkley was a Better Floor Defender an Stealer
Barkley was as Good Interior Defender when he had a Center (alredy prooved for the 1985-86 season when he had a Center. Malone had The Best Shot Blocker and Interior Defender of the 80s to Make It Confortable For Him Positioning Wise)
Barkley was a Better Skilled Player: Spins, Fakes, Off the Dribbles, Rumbles you name it
Barkley was a Better Shooter: Close Range, Mid Range or Far Range
Barkley was a Better 1 on 1 Player...
*Player that Created Most Missmatches, Ilegal Defenses and Defensive Rotations than Any Other Before Shaq
Barkley was a Better Clutch Performer by Miles!
Barkley was More Agil, Had More Leaping Ability, Stronger Floor Strength, Stronger Interior Strength

*As Good or Beter as a Finisher if he had Stockton (as he prooved in the Dream Team)

Barkley was a Better Ball Handler
Barkley Could Design His Scoring Coast to Coast or Dish Off
etc

Barkley was Better than Malone in every aspect of the Game but FT SHooting, Stamina, Longevity and Off Court Work Out

Only 1 Thing is a Basketball SKill..

And :no: Malone did not have Better Head to Head Matchups : when both Where Healthy Infact Barkley Owned Malone for 10 Years (ages 22-32) in Head to Head Matchups.

That is 26 Games: Accounts of 70% of the Total MatchupsThey Faced !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hammerhead:

In the Next 11 Games Barkley`s Numbers Dropped against Malone because he became a 2nd or 3rd Scoring Option between 1996-97 and 1999-2000 and because he Had Back Injuries, Knee Injuries and Could not Longer Jump (which was Essential for His Game) Like Before Before at age 33.

So it goes like this...Example If You School Me For 10 Years on 26 Games Meetings and Then You Get Injured and Go as a Role Player or 2nd-3rd Fiddle to Another Team and when You Face Me Your Numbers Drop in the Last 11 Meetings because of that...does that Mean I Was Better? :no: :rolleyes:

70% of Our Meetings You Schoold Me and Then The Last 30% I Take Advante of the Fact That You Can`t Hardly Play do to Injuries and are a 2nd-3rd Fiddle?

Then I Get The Hype for that? How Cowardly!

:rolleyes: PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

That is what People Remember the Last 30% of The Head to Head Matchups :rolleyes: :hammerhead:

Well I Remember the 70% Before!!! in where as Bill Walton like to say : "Barkley Used To Own Malone in Their Meetings Back in 93 and Before"

Finally Barkley has

Higher Statistical +/-!
Higher EFF!
Higher PER (Season and Play-Offs) !

*Even Broken Stats = + Exact Proof What I`ve Always Said

Barkley was SImply Just Better and Many Barkley Haters Know It But Won`t Say It..Even More Jazz Fans..They like to Live of 30% of that they saw and forget about the 70% before


Dude I have your back! I told you I feel Barkley is the better player. You keep having these colorful sentences and **** to prove a point that isn't really much of a difference. Chuck even said himself he only takes a backseat to Duncan as a PF of all time. BUT CHUCK HIMSELF SAID KARL MALONE WAS THE BETTER SCORER BECAUSE KARL LOOKED TO SCORE MORE WHILE BARKLEY AT TIMES WOULD CREATE FOR HIS TEAMMATES MORE OFTEN! THAT'S BECAUSE AS I POINTED OUT EARLIER CHUCK TO ME WAS A COMBO PF\SF! IF CHUCK SAID THAT KARL WAS THE BETTER SCORER BECAUSE OF THAT REASON THEN YOUR ARGUMENT TAKES A HIT BECAUSE THE MAN HIMSELF SAID IT! TRUTH BE TOLD I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT LIKE THAT UNTIL CHUCK SAID IT HIMSELF! Very rarely are power forwards looked to as playmakers and excellent passers. You got Chuck, C-Webb, and KG for that type of thing. You also said earlier that I implied Chuck was mainly a mid range shooter which is insane. I was just pointing out the fact that Charles might shake and bake on the wing a little and hit pullups. I was just pointing to the tremendous versatility the man had. Chuck was a beast in the open floor and in the paint! Stevie Wonder could even see that! Chuck along with MJ, Magic, and Nique are my top 4 favorite players of all time. So I know full well about what Chuck could do. But you can't argue too hard for Chuck when Chuck himself said Karl was the slightly better scorer. But I will never argue with anybody too hard if they think Chuck was the better scorer than Karl. More versatile scorer? Hell ya Chuck is a more versatile scorer? Better scorer? It's a tie or you could lean one way or the other.

[Sir Charles]

Dude I have your back! I told you I feel Barkley is the better player. You keep having these colorful sentences and **** to prove a point that isn't really much of a difference. Chuck even said himself he only takes a backseat to Duncan as a PF of all time. BUT CHUCK HIMSELF SAID KARL MALONE WAS THE BETTER SCORER BECAUSE KARL LOOKED TO SCORE MORE WHILE BARKLEY AT TIMES WOULD CREATE FOR HIS TEAMMATES MORE OFTEN! THAT'S BECAUSE AS I POINTED OUT EARLIER CHUCK TO ME WAS A COMBO PF\SF! IF CHUCK SAID THAT KARL WAS THE BETTER SCORER BECAUSE OF THAT REASON THEN YOUR ARGUMENT TAKES A HIT BECAUSE THE MAN HIMSELF SAID IT! TRUTH BE TOLD I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT LIKE THAT UNTIL CHUCK SAID IT HIMSELF! Very rarely are power forwards looked to as playmakers and excellent passers. You got Chuck, C-Webb, and KG for that type of thing. You also said earlier that I implied Chuck was mainly a mid range shooter which is insane. I was just pointing out the fact that Charles might shake and bake on the wing a little and hit pullups. I was just pointing to the tremendous versatility the man had. Chuck was a beast in the open floor and in the paint! Stevie Wonder could even see that! Chuck along with MJ, Magic, and Nique are my top 4 favorite players of all time. So I know full well about what Chuck could do. But you can't argue too hard for Chuck when Chuck himself said Karl was the slightly better scorer. But I will never argue with anybody too hard if they think Chuck was the better scorer than Karl. More versatile scorer? Hell ya Chuck is a more versatile scorer? Better scorer? It's a tie or you could lean one way or the other.


Chuck said Karl liked to score more but he never said he was a Better Scorer and he did it was when he was young and new less about the game. That is why he always points out his quote of "Anyone Can Score If They Shoot Often Enough" little critique for many players who may like to score but aren`t efficient like "himself" :confusedshrug: . Also Barkley designed his shot more Malone was more dependant on Stockton`s Designing of Pick and Rolls and fast Breaks while Barkley do it on his own.

Also its not like Charles was a combo SF/PF :no: he played SF for 2 seasons out of 16! and he even played Center in some parts of the 93, 94 and 95 seasons but that doesn`t make him a Center either :no: . He was more like a C with Guard Height-Speed-Agility-Leaping Ability and SF versatility.

His Game has no description really but if you wan`t to get more exact he was more of Center (Game Wise) than PF actually. A more Skilled Version of Shaq at 6`4-6`5.

Also its not like Charles liked to Pass More...Its More Like Charles "knew he was a Better passer" so he felt he could create more and he could. Amazing is how much he could create despite being doubled constantly and causing the most ilegal defenses

Barkley was Better at pretty much everything but FT Shooting, Stamina, Off Court Working Out and Durability in both their primes.

As for Better Scorer :no: Maybe "Liked To Score More" but a GREAT SCORERS SCORE ALOT WITH HIGH FG%

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG at 21.6 PPG on 12.9...Two Point FGAs Pg (Season)

Malone shot 51.9% Tw-Point FG FG at 24.7 PPG on 17.5...Two-Point FGAs PG PG (Season)

Barkley shot 55.13% FG at 22.5 PPG on 14.5 ...Two-Point FGAs PG (Play-Offs)

Malone shot 46.6% Two-Point FG at 24.6 PPG on 19.3...Two-Point FGAs PG (Play-Offs)

Barkley was a Way Superior Scorer :rolleyes:

Also many people here on the ISH said i was crazy about Barkley usually outplaying Malone between ages 22-32. They where like "No Way Too Short" etc of Crap because they remember the Old Charles not the REAL and I`ve prooven it again.

Many idiots here know this but have so much hate on Charles (it was the common back in the day) that they tried to avoid it and like to remember the 1996-1999 Charles that has nothing to do with the REAL SIR CHARLES. I saw it thankfully and new many idiots of tha time would be talking crap years to come trying to put Malone over Barkley which was an insult to me and to any NBA fan that knows the game saw them play from 85 to 95. I guess you also him playing when was SIR Charles..not Old Crippled Chuckster.


Greetings :applause:

[bizil]

Chuck said Karl liked to score more but he never said he was a Better Scorer and he did it was when he was young and new less about the game. That is why he always points out his quote of "Anyone Can Score If They Shoot Often Enough" little critique for many players who may like to score but aren`t efficient like "himself" :confusedshrug: . Also Barkley designed his shot more Malone was more dependant on Stockton`s Designing of Pick and Rolls and fast Breaks while Barkley do it on his own.

Also its not like Charles was a combo SF/PF :no: he played SF for 2 seasons out of 16! and he even played Center in some parts of the 93, 94 and 95 seasons but that doesn`t make him a Center either :no: . He was more like a C with Guard Height-Speed-Agility-Leaping Ability and SF versatility.

His Game has no description really but if you wan`t to get more exact he was more of Center (Game Wise) than PF actually. A more Skilled Version of Shaq at 6`4-6`5.

Also its not like Charles liked to Pass More...Its More Like Charles "knew he was a Better passer" so he felt he could create more and he could. Amazing is how much he could create despite being doubled constantly and causing the most ilegal defenses

Barkley was Better at pretty much everything but FT Shooting, Stamina, Off Court Working Out and Durability in both their primes.

As for Better Scorer :no: Maybe "Liked To Score More" but a GREAT SCORERS SCORE ALOT WITH HIGH FG%

Barkley shot 58.13% Two-Point FG at 21.6 PPG on 12.9...Two Point FGAs Pg (Season)

Malone shot 51.9% Tw-Point FG FG at 24.7 PPG on 17.5...Two-Point FGAs PG PG (Season)

Barkley shot 55.13% FG at 22.5 PPG on 14.5 ...Two-Point FGAs PG (Play-Offs)

Malone shot 46.6% Two-Point FG at 24.6 PPG on 19.3...Two-Point FGAs PG (Play-Offs)

Barkley was a Way Superior Scorer :rolleyes:

Also many people here on the ISH said i was crazy about Barkley usually outplaying Malone between ages 22-32. They where like "No Way Too Short" etc of Crap because they remember the Old Charles not the REAL and I`ve prooven it again.

Many idiots here know this but have so much hate on Charles (it was the common back in the day) that they tried to avoid it and like to remember the 1996-1999 Charles that has nothing to do with the REAL SIR CHARLES. I saw it thankfully and new many idiots of tha time would be talking crap years to come trying to put Malone over Barkley which was an insult to me and to any NBA fan that knows the game saw them play from 85 to 95. I guess you also him playing when was SIR Charles..not Old Crippled Chuckster.


Greetings :applause:


I'm talking Barkley's skillset to me was a combo of a PF\SF. Of course Charles primary position is PF. But his secondary position is SF. He had small forward elements to his game. What's wrong with saying Barkley liked to pass more? He was capable of it and did it. It is not out of the realm of possibilty that Barkley could be considered a PF/SF. Guys like Dirk, KG, and Odom have been that at times throughout their career. And no Barkley was not a way superior scorer than Malone. If you think he's a better scorer then cool. More versatile yes easily. More effcient by the stats you put up u are right. But no way in hell WAY more superior as a scorer. But I will give Chuck this. In my mind his total skillset is way more superior than Malone but not the scoring part. And by the way how many PF's do you see get the board, dribble the length of the floor and do the things Chuck was doing at the time. Those are SF elements not PF elements. And how was Barkley more of a center?

[JustinJDW]

I stop reading Sir Charles post when he said, "Barkley > Duncan". At that point, I laughed in my chair for about 20 minutes.

[snipes12]

"Anyone can Score If They Shoot Often Enough" CB4

Barkley Took 2-3 FGAs PG Lesser (4-9 Pts more missed) and Shot 4% + Higher Season FG% and 5% Higher Play-Off FG% and its just 2.9 PPG Differencial (1 Basket and 1 FT) for the Season and 2 PPG Differencial for the Play-Offs (1 Basket)

If you talk about 2-Point FG% INSIDE (INSIDE SCORING, A PFs Efficiency) its even more of a Difference!!!:

Barkley shot 7% + Higher 2-Point FG Season (only 3 PPG Less) and 11% Higher 2-Point FG for Play-Offs (on Only 1.7 PPG Less)

Barkley`s Inside Scoring Was Like Comparing a Guy that Shoots 43% in the Season while he Soots 50% and in the Play-Offs like a Guy Who Shoots 40% and you shoot 51% (Talk About Who Was The Better Clutch Scorer!!)

So Barkley is the Better Scorer :confusedshrug:

If Kobe plays 8 More Years and Surpasses Michael Jordan for Stat Piling and Acumulation was He Better? :rolleyes: :no:

Then again if you go by Numbers..

Barkley was the Better Scorer
Barkley was a Btter Rebounder
Barkley was a Better Passer/Assiter/Game Creator
Barkley was a Better Shot Blocker
Barkley was a Better Floor Defender an Stealer
Barkley was as Good Interior Defender when he had a Center (alredy prooved for the 1985-86 season when he had a Center. Malone had The Best Shot Blocker and Interior Defender of the 80s to Make It Confortable For Him Positioning Wise)
Barkley was a Better Skilled Player: Spins, Fakes, Off the Dribbles, Rumbles you name it
Barkley was a Better Shooter: Close Range, Mid Range or Far Range
Barkley was a Better 1 on 1 Player...
*Player that Created Most Missmatches, Ilegal Defenses and Defensive Rotations than Any Other Before Shaq
Barkley was a Better Clutch Performer by Miles!
Barkley was More Agil, Had More Leaping Ability, Stronger Floor Strength, Stronger Interior Strength

*As Good or Beter as a Finisher if he had Stockton (as he prooved in the Dream Team)

Barkley was a Better Ball Handler
Barkley Could Design His Scoring Coast to Coast or Dish Off
etc

Barkley was Better than Malone in every aspect of the Game but FT SHooting, Stamina, Longevity and Off Court Work Out

Only 1 Thing is a Basketball SKill..

And :no: Malone did not have Better Head to Head Matchups : when both Where Healthy Infact Barkley Owned Malone for 10 Years (ages 22-32) in Head to Head Matchups.

That is 26 Games: Accounts of 70% of the Total MatchupsThey Faced !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hammerhead:

In the Next 11 Games Barkley`s Numbers Dropped against Malone because he became a 2nd or 3rd Scoring Option between 1996-97 and 1999-2000 and because he Had Back Injuries, Knee Injuries and Could not Longer Jump (which was Essential for His Game) Like Before Before at age 33.

So it goes like this...Example If You School Me For 10 Years on 26 Games Meetings and Then You Get Injured and Go as a Role Player or 2nd-3rd Fiddle to Another Team and when You Face Me Your Numbers Drop in the Last 11 Meetings because of that...does that Mean I Was Better? :no: :rolleyes:

70% of Our Meetings You Schoold Me and Then The Last 30% I Take Advante of the Fact That You Can`t Hardly Play do to Injuries and are a 2nd-3rd Fiddle?

Then I Get The Hype for that? How Cowardly!

:rolleyes: PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

That is what People Remember the Last 30% of The Head to Head Matchups :rolleyes: :hammerhead:

Well I Remember the 70% Before!!! in where as Bill Walton like to say : "Barkley Used To Own Malone in Their Meetings Back in 93 and Before"

Finally Barkley has

Higher Statistical +/-!
Higher EFF!
Higher PER (Season and Play-Offs) !

*Even Broken Stats = + Exact Proof What I`ve Always Said

Barkley was SImply Just Better and Many Barkley Haters Know It But Won`t Say It..Even More Jazz Fans..They like to Live of 30% of that they saw and forget about the 70% before

sir charles you are indeed a basketball scientist

Have a life !

[Sir Charles]

sir charles you are indeed a basketball scientist

Have a life !

:rolleyes:

[KobeRules24]

Charles Barkley was better than Karl Malone and he didn't need the help of a great point guard or the pick-n-roll to get the majority of his points like The Mailman

[Sir Charles]

Charles Barkley was better than Karl Malone and he didn't need the help of a great point guard or the pick-n-roll to get the majority of his points like The Mailman

:applause:

[T-bomb 25]

:oldlol:

If Barkley owned Duncan at ages 34-36 (Duncan 21-23) as a back and knee crippled aged overweight man

And Malone held is how against Tim Duncan at grandpa ages of 34-40 (Duncan ages 21-27)

Makes Me Wonder What they Could Have Done to Duncan under REAL MEN PHYSICAL RULES of the 80s and 90s :pimp:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=malonka01&p2=duncati01

Don`t Underrate Malone :no:..Duncan was Better SLIGHTLY and Only as a Center-Forward that never had to do more on his own than Malone or ofcourse Barkley...


BEST PF EVER = BARKLEY

2ND = DUNCAN or Maybe Malone

In a Fast Paced Game Id Pick Malone Without HesitationComparing either to Duncan is abserd,I may take McHale over Barkley and Malone but Duncan is all alone at the top on the PF list.

[jlitt]

IN all fairness barkley didn't even play the position of power forward for some years. He actually played small forward when they had armon gilliam but was listed as pf so bird could make the all star team and such. Look he dominated karl during their primes no one is doubting that. But history will not judge barkley kindly. Malone has stats that will stand the test of time whereas barkley's will fade.

Another thing. How is duncan a pf? Seriously if ur 7 foot your automatically a center. he played center in college, When he was with drob they both played center. Its hilarious that people think he is a pf. Give me a break. ANd btw barkley would kick his ass in his prime. He destroyed tall unathletic players.

[T-bomb 25]

IN all fairness barkley didn't even play the position of power forward for some years. He actually played small forward when they had armon gilliam but was listed as pf so bird could make the all star team and such. Look he dominated karl during their primes no one is doubting that. But history will not judge barkley kindly. Malone has stats that will stand the test of time whereas barkley's will fade.

Another thing. How is duncan a pf? Seriously if ur 7 foot your automatically a center. he played center in college, When he was with drob they both played center. Its hilarious that people think he is a pf. Give me a break. ANd btw barkley would kick his ass in his prime. He destroyed tall unathletic players.Your a idiot,height does not judge what position you play,if thats the case then Magic was a PF and Adrian Dantley was a SG moron.

[jlitt]

Your a idiot,height does not judge what position you play,if thats the case then Magic was a PF and Adrian Dantley was a SG moron.


then tell me what are the qualifications to play center?

[T-bomb 25]

then tell me what are the qualifications to play center?You already have it figured out,so just keep rolling like that regardless these are the rankings for PF:
1.Duncan ( the best 4 rings and best defnsive PF of alltime)
2.MaHcale(a array of post moves 3 rings,good defender)
3.Malone(Always in great shape,a scorer the FT line was relegion to him)
4.KG(alot of all around skills a great team guy and the 2nd best defensive PF)
5.Barkley(loads of natural talent great rebounder,very lazy,a tweener,Short,bad teamate,poor shot selection,drink and smoke to much,and talks way to much and dont know ****,a idiot really,the babe ruth of the NBA,except he didnt win a title,really he was a underacheiver.)

[jlitt]

You already have it figured out,so just keep rolling like that regardless these are the rankings for PF:
1.Duncan ( the best 4 rings and best defnsive PF of alltime)
2.MaHcale(a array of post moves 3 rings,good defender)
3.Malone(Always in great shape,a scorer the FT line was relegion to him)
4.KG(alot of all around skills a great team guy and the 2nd best defensive PF)
5.Barkley(loads of natural talent great rebounder,very lazy,a tweener,Short,bad teamate,poor shot selection,drink and smoke to much,and talks way to much and dont know ****,a idiot really,the babe ruth of the NBA,except he didnt win a title,really he was a underacheiver.)


if your going to criticize please state a case. What qualifications does a player need to have to play center. State your case and gain some respect.

[T-bomb 25]

if your going to criticize please state a case. What qualifications does a player need to have to play center. State your case and gain some respect.Since you insist,dont really think i need to gain some respect,but anyway here you go:

A defensive interior presence
A good rebounder
Good height
must be physical
A post game would be helpful
These days a nice 12 foot jumper
Very good screen setter
The teams enforcer

[jlitt]

Since you insist,dont really think i need to gain some respect,but anyway here you go:

A defensive interior presence
A good rebounder
Good height
must be physical
A post game would be helpful
These days a nice 12 foot jumper
Very good screen setter
The teams enforcer


holy sh!t. you just described tim duncan.

[T-bomb 25]

holy sh!t. you just described tim duncan.Your funny.

[jlitt]

Your funny.


thank you

[Sir Charles]

[QUOTE=jlitt]IN all fairness barkley didn't even play the position of power forward for some years. He actually played small forward when they had armon gilliam but was listed as pf so bird could make the all star team and such.

Barkley didn`t even play PF for some years?

:rolleyes: :banghead: :hammerhead:

He only did not play PF in 1989-90 and 1990-91 when Mahorn played with the Sixers.

Bird a PF? just because he was 6`9 1/2? :no: :oldlol: He never played PF. You think that averaging 10 RPG makes you a PF inmediatly? :no: (then Magic was a SF-PF: 7-9 RPG and Bird was a SG-PG: 6-8 apg...for some seasons and play-offs)

Cedric Maxwell was the PF and he got the ball in the paint for spins and scores at a very high FG% while Bird usually played outside of Pick/Rolls, Drives, Shooting and Game Creating (he was like the Lead Guard). Cedric also guarded the opponents best offensive forwards and was the Celtics most Efficient Inside Scorer. Then it was McHale`s turn by 1984-85 at starting PF.

Look he dominated karl during their primes no one is doubting that. But history will not judge barkley kindly. Malone has stats that will stand the test of time whereas barkley's will fade.

Stat Pading of Longevity? Maybe Yes but even if you wanted to include Raw Stats that don`t tell crap...again it shows Barkley has the Better Stats in Scoring Efficiency FG%, Rebounds, Assits, Steals, Blocks...

The Real Evidence is found in Broken Down Stats of Efficiency and Impact Per Game (Season and Play-Offs, clutchness measure for the last one): EFF, PER and Stastistical +/- (take a look at the Names in the All Time List as Stars) all point to Barkley as the Better Player and he never needed the game to sorround him to score either through fast break easy buckets or a pick and roll styem designed for himself to live on.

Stockton-Malone Parasticial Living and Life on the NBA, also Stat Paders

Another thing. How is duncan a pf? Seriously if ur 7 foot your automatically a center. he played center in college, When he was with drob they both played center. Its hilarious that people think he is a pf. Give me a break. ANd btw barkley would kick his ass in his prime. He destroyed tall unathletic players.

Duncan is a C-CF...basically a C that can play some PF (in the same way Barkley can play some SF) do to his ballhandling, game creation abilities and post game. Same thing can be said to Hakeem or Ewing (played CF when Cartwright was with the Knicks), same with Gasol in todays NBA and in the past Elvin Hayes.

It is true that he has played more Center than Powerforward Statistical Prooven. The way he positions himself on the court is also Center-like

If idiots want to consider Duncan a PF then Barkley is the Greatest SF Ever over Bird and that is prooven in broken down stats that tell Impact and Efficiency (with pathetic help to what Bird had all of is career).

Barkley > Malone...i saw it live...and have prooved it once again...

[Sir Charles]

Comparing either to Duncan is abserd,I may take McHale over Barkley and Malone but Duncan is all alone at the top on the PF list.

:roll:

There really isn`t much to compare a C that plays with another Center and likes to be called a PF while Barkley was Better in any aspect of the game ANY...but Interior D/Shot Blocking.

BTW

Barkley Owned Duncan at ages 34-36

Owned Garnett at ages 33-36,

Owned Mchale by the 1985-86 season on...and....

Owned Malone for 10 years 1985-1996 in their Total Game and Physical Primes.

No PF Has Ever Outplayed a Prime & Healthy Charles Barkley...Simple as that...

(McHale only did it the 1984-85 season as a Rookie, Malone got nothing on Charles up untill 1995)....and even passed his prime, with no knees and a dead back at 288 lbs he owned Garnett and Duncan in most of their meetings at ages 33-36

[jlitt]

:roll:

There really isn`t much to compare a C that plays with another Center and likes to be called a PF while Barkley was Better in any aspect of the game ANY...but Interior D/Shot Blocking.

BTW

Barkley Owned Duncan at ages 34-36

Owned Garnett at ages 33-36,

Owned Mchale by the 1985-86 season on...and....

Owned Malone for 10 years 1985-1996 in their Total Game and Physical Primes.

No PF Has Ever Outplayed a Prime Charles Barkley....

100 percent true. not even close

[Manute for Ever!]

Sir Charles, why do you always bump your own threads?

[White Chocolate]

Sir Charles, why do you always bump your own threads?


Because he has to suck Barkley's dick and this is the only way he knows how.

[T-bomb 25]

:roll:

There really isn`t much to compare a C that plays with another Center and likes to be called a PF while Barkley was Better in any aspect of the game ANY...but Interior D/Shot Blocking.

BTW

Barkley Owned Duncan at ages 34-36

Owned Garnett at ages 33-36,

Owned Mchale by the 1985-86 season on...and....

Owned Malone for 10 years 1985-1996 in their Total Game and Physical Primes.

No PF Has Ever Outplayed a Prime & Healthy Charles Barkley...Simple as that...

(McHale only did it the 1984-85 season as a Rookie, Malone got nothing on Charles up untill 1995)....and even passed his prime, with no knees and a dead back at 288 lbs he owned Garnett and Duncan in most of their meetings at ages 33-36Dude your hurting my eyes,and what is with all this wack stat garbage?Stats knowone gives a ***** about,I wanna play you for some money,is this the kind of stupid Sh!t you gonna come up with when i beat you for the money?

[Sir Charles]

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/12/markeaton.jpg

7'4" and never had a problem with broken bones not healing.

Doesn`t Change the Fact that Malone and Stockton played with the Greatest Shot Blocker of All Time (Per Game and Block %) and A Top Interior Defender of the 80s (with Hakeem the Best of that era).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/eatonma01.html

Defensive Rating

1982-83 NBA 97.8 (10)
1984-85 NBA 96.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 100.0 (5)
1986-87 NBA 100.2 (2)
1987-88 NBA 100.7 (2)
1988-89 NBA 97.7 (2)
1989-90 NBA 102.4 (9)
1991-92 NBA 102.5 (10)


Blocks Per Game

1982-83 NBA 3.4 (3)
1983-84 NBA 4.3 (1)
1984-85 NBA 5.6 (1)
1985-86 NBA 4.6 (2)
1986-87 NBA 4.1 (1)
1987-88 NBA 3.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 3.8 (2)
1989-90 NBA 2.5 (6)
1990-91 NBA 2.4 (7)
1991-92 NBA 2.5 (9)
Career NBA 3.5 (1)
Career 3.5 (1)

Block Pct

1982-83 NBA 9.2 (1)
1983-84 NBA 8.5 (1)
1984-85 NBA 8.7 (1)
1985-86 NBA 8.1 (2)
1986-87 NBA 7.4 (2)
1987-88 NBA 6.4 (3)
1988-89 NBA 6.5 (2)
1989-90 NBA 5.5 (6)
1991-92 NBA 6.2 (4)
Career NBA 6.9 (5)
Career 6.9 (5)

Also rebounding help.

That is what i call a Great Anchor for Your Team Defensively so your Defensive Job becomes easier aswell...

[CB4GOATPF]

:rolleyes: :pimp:

People always need to get a remembering on how Barkley was like

BTW...Sir Charles now CB4GOATPF...Is one of the Most Underrated Posters of All Time :bowdown: :D

[Bigsmoke]

why u have another account. your old one got banned

[IInvented]

Sir Charles and CBGOATPF is an alias..

[CB4GOATPF]

why u have another account. your old one got banned

Nah i just don`t use that mail anymore ....any how...enjoy THE EVIDENCE that i for long have told :bowdown:

[Bigsmoke]

Nah i just don`t use that mail anymore ....any how...enjoy THE EVIDENCE that i for long have told :bowdown:

stop your Charles Barkley d*ckrider already! sh*t!

do u think its a lil homo showing THIS much appreciation towards him?

[Juges8932]

Both combined: 0 titles.

Haha, that made me laugh.
:cheers:

[CB4GOATPF]

I just would like to say

"Where are those idiots that say Malone got the best on Barkley"? :rolleyes: :confusedshrug:

Yeah when Charles was crippled and overweight...never before...as i mentioned and prooved again :cheers:

[CB4GOATPF]

More Respect for the Greatest PF Ever in his "Prime and Health Peek"

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2002/0311_large.jpg

[Bigsmoke]

^^ Damn He Fat

[joshwake]

you know basketball is a team sport right? Its not hard to find specific stats that can support anything you want to prove. I don't have any problems with you saying barkley>malone, but duncan? cmon, sorry but you need to factor in the rings.

[CB4GOATPF]

you know basketball is a team sport right? Its not hard to find specific stats that can support anything you want to prove. I don't have any problems with you saying barkley>malone, but duncan? cmon, sorry but you need to factor in the rings.

"Broken Down Stats" say alot and if you consider of level of Teamates both Offensively and Defensively...Chuck Never had in "His Prime" as Good Team as Malone or Duncan..

Barkley > Duncan too....Team Crap Can...Kiss M A...:confusedshrug:

[joshwake]

"Broken Down Stats" say alot and if you consider of level of Teamates both Offensively and Defensively...Chuck Never had in "His Prime" as Good Team as Malone or Duncan..

Barkley > Duncan too....Team Crap Can...Kiss M A...:confusedshrug:

this isn't golf man. You know you can't just throw out the team aspect and how well a player can include his teamates. Youre smarter than that cmon.

and the whole "x played on a better team than y therfore y is a better player" can be used to argue both sides. Barkely was not on good teams during his prime, therefore he was more important to those teams and thus has padded stats. I don't actually beleive that, but it is a valid argument the other way.

Duncan is no.1 btw. he has the stats and the hardware.

[CB4GOATPF]

this isn't golf man. You know you can't just throw out the team aspect and how well a player can include his teamates. Youre smarter than that cmon.

Ofcourse its not :confusedshrug: :rolleyes: :banghead:

Exactly why why the Level of Teamates, Coach and Chemistry you have will show for the wins more "THAN HOW GOOD A PLAYER IS"

You have better Offensive Players in the Frontline, the Easier it is For You to get Assits (Higher % Shots for Open Assits)

You have Better Paint Interior Defenders next to you, the Easier it is for Your Own Paint and Interior Defense.

You have Better Perimeter or Exterior Defenders, the Easier it for Your Own Perimeter Exterior Defense

You have a "1st Pass/Create then Score/Drive PG or SG" (like Ginobili, Parker and ofcourse Stockton) The Easier it is For Your Offense that sorrounds you etc

Duncan usually had Unselfish PGs and SGs "1st Pass/Create then Drive or Score"...that could Defend well: Parker and Ginobili and ofcourse Major Interior Defense help in Robinson. Barkley never did have a Defense Great Team but 1985-86 in his Healthy Prime ages 22-32

Karl Malone ofcourse had a Top Interior Defensive Rating Monster in Mark Eaton and the Best Passer/Game Creator of All Time and ofcourse the Purest Form of a "1st Pass/Create PG" for his Whole Career living of Pick and Rolls and Easy Buckets on the Break

and the whole "x played on a better team than y therfore y is a better player" can be used to argue both sides. Barkely was not on good teams during his prime, therefore he was more important to those teams and thus has padded stats. I don't actually beleive that, but it is a valid argument the other way.

Ohh Please...!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Just Check Out his EFF, PER and Statistical +/- Prediction....That Shows How Good an Individual Player is

PER, "Per Minute Efficiency" So It Accounts also for Physical Atribites
EFF accounts for "Efficiency of Pure Skill" and finally....
Statistical +/- Prediction accounts for "Pure Impact on a Team"

*Now Compare that to the Teamates Next to Him In That Players Prime and Those Players That Sorround Him In Their Primes

Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Offensive Win Shares are all Realted to TEAM CONCEPT and The Share...you have With Other Great Teamates...

Here is Proof of How Good Other SUperstar Teamates had Compared to Charles in Their Prime and Those Other Players Helping Primes

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Offensive Win Shares


NBARank Player OWS

1. Michael Jordan* 146.04
2. John Stockton* 141.01
3. Karl Malone 140.10

4. Reggie Miller 138.82 (A Great Defensive and Offensively Balanced Squad)
5. Charles Barkley * 122.30 (A Bad Defensive Squad and a "1st Score/Drive then Pass Selfish PG" in KJ)

6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 119.94 (Had Magic, Worthy etc)
7. Shaquille O'Neal 114.87 (Had Bryant, Then Wade and a Great Defensive Squad)

8. Adrian Dantley* 111.27 (Had No Body In his Pure Prime)

9. Magic Johnson* 110.52 (had Kareem, Worthy etc)

10. Moses Malone* 110.52 (only played with Barkley 85-86 season)

11. Kobe Bryant 100.78 (Shaq! and Now "Game Creating Machine" + Good Defender FC Gasol + THE BIG 3: GASOL, BYNUM + ODOM a 3 Position Defender)

12. Dirk Nowitzki 98.94 (Needs Defensive Help)

13. David Robinson* 97.65 (Helped Duncan, In his Prime and Healthy, had a Bad Team BOTH Defensively & Offensively)

14. Gary Payton 96.95 (had Kemp)
15. Ray Allen 91.73 (Garnett now and Pierece)
16. Steve Nash 91.51
17. Kevin Garnett 88.07 (Bad Team in Most of his Career now Pierece and Allen)
18. Clyde Drexler* 87.92 (A Good Balanced Team Most of his Career then Hakeem)
19. Larry Bird* 86.14 (Great Offensive Help in Parish, Maxwell, McHale, DJ, Walton & Prime Ainge etc)
20. Alex English * 82.38 (Not Much Defensive Help)
21. Dominique Wilkins* 81.05 (ALONE OFFENSIVELY)
22. Jeff Hornacek 77.00
23. Detlef Schrempf 76.69 (Underrated)
24. Kevin McHale* 75.20 (Great Offensive Help in Maxwell, Bird, Parish, DJ, Walton etc)
25. Chauncey Billups 73.87
26. Terry Porter 73.46 (helped Drexler)
27. Robert Parish* 73.43 (Maxwell, Bird, McHalem DJ, Walton & Prime Ainge)
28. Tim Duncan 72.83 (had Robinson!, Ginobili, Parker) )[/SIZE]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Defensive Win Shares

NBA/ABA

Rank Player DWS

1. Hakeem Olajuwon* 94.90 (initially had Sampson then suffered till early 90s when he got then Great Perimeter Defenders in V. Maxwell, Smith & Hoarry and ofcourse Defensive Interior Force: Otis Thrope)

2. Karl Malone 91.52 (Had Mark Eaton, along with Hakeem the Best Paint Interior Defender, Be also the Best Shot Blocker BPG + BLK% n NBA History!, 6`11 SF Thurl Baily: could guard 3 Positions almost)

3. Patrick Ewing* 80.20 (UNDERRATED! but he did have a Great Defending Team)

4. David Robinson* 79.49 (Bad Team both Offensively & Defensively in his Prime & Health, No Great Defenders but Rodman next to him for 1 season)

5. Tim Duncan 75.69 (had Great Defensive Help, Robinson and Great Offensive Help: Ginobili and Parker)

6. Robert Parish* 72.26 (had everyone)
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 70.22 (had everyone)

8. Kevin Garnett 69.59 (alone most of his career and now finally got a Team)

9. Dikembe Mutombo 67.86

10. Scottie Pippen 65.87 (Defensive Help in Grant, Jordan, Rodman, Harper etc)

11. Julius Erving* 65.09 (ages 34-37, played passed his prime with Charles)
12. Ben Wallace 64.56 (incredible Defender)

13. John Stockton* 64.33 (underrated Help Defender)

14. Shaquille O'Neal 63.29 (Got alot of Defensive Help)

15. Buck Williams 62.67 (Underrated Defender)
16. Jason Kidd 62.55 (Underrated Defender)

17. Michael Jordan* 62.48 (had Defensive help in Oakley, Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Harper, Longley etc)

18. Charles Oakley 62.23 (Underrated but got Patrick etc)
19. Jack Sikma 59.69 (underrated Defender)

20. Moses Malone* 59.32 (played 1 season with Starting Charles)
21. Larry Bird* 58.67 (got everyone)
22. Artis Gilmore 57.96
23. Clifford Robinson 56.45
24. Vlade Divac 53.69 )[/SIZE]

25. Charles Barkley* 53.65 (PLAYED ALL HIS PRIME WITH A BAD DEFENSE TEAM!)

26. Dennis Rodman 52.89 (played with Great Defenders All His Life)
27. Caldwell Jones 52.35

28. Shawn Kemp 52.27 (had Payton ETC)[/SIZE]

29. Elvin Hayes* 52.06
30. Rasheed Wallace 51.68

31. Clyde Drexler* 51.21 (had Great Defenders in Porter, Buck and Underrated Duckworth)[/SIZE]

32. Chris Webber 49.51 (Not Enough Defensive Help, UNDERRATED!)

33. Gary Payton 48.98 (had Defensive help in Kemp etc)
34. Bill Laimbeer 48.68

35. Horace Grant 48.47 (Got Jordan, Pippen, Shaq etc)
36. Mark Eaton 48.31 (had Karl, Baily and Stockton)
37. Shawn Marion 48.05

[CB4GOATPF]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Offensive Win Shares

NBA/ABA
Rank Player OWS

1. Michael Jordan* 26.57
2. Magic Johnson* 23.43 (helped Kareem)
3. Shaquille O'Neal 20.32 (helped Bryant)
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 17.62 (helped Magic)
5. Kobe Bryant 16.72 (helped Shaq)
6. Reggie Miller 16.10
7. Tim Duncan 15.20 (helped Robinson)
8. Kevin McHale* 14.42 (helped Bird etc)
9. Chauncey Billups 14.32
10. John Stockton* 14.18
11. Julius Erving* 14.17 (played passed his Prime with Barkley)
12. Charles Barkley* 13.84 (ALONE)
13. Larry Bird* 13.73 (helped McHale etc)
14. Dirk Nowitzki 13.51
15. Hakeem Olajuwon* 12.01
16. Karl Malone 11.25
17. Horace Grant 11.21 (helped Jordan, Pippen, Shaq etc)
18. Steve Nash 10.13
19. Clyde Drexler* 9.88
20. Jeff Hornacek 9.83
21. James Worthy* 9.78 (helped Magic, Kareem etc)
22. Robert Horry 9.75
23. Moses Malone* 9.54 (played only 1 Season with Starting Barkley)
24. Scottie Pippen 9.22 (helped Jordan, Grant etc and Blazers)
25. Terry Porter 8.77 (helped Drexler)
26. Bobby Jones 8.47 (helped the Early 80s Sixers)
27. Ray Allen 8.32
28. Kevin Johnson 8.02
29. David Robinson* 7.96 (helped Duncan)
30. George Gervin* 7.93 (ALONE!)
31. Manu Ginobili 7.89 (helped Duncan, Parker etc)
32. Maurice Cheeks 7.76
33. LeBron James 7.48
34. Derek Fisher 7.42
35. Gary Payton 7.05
36. Byron Scott 6.70
37. Michael Cooper 6.68
38. Dennis Johnson 6.61 (helped Bird, Parish, Maxwell, McHale etc)
39. Gus Williams 6.54
40. Robert Parish* 6.51 (helped Bird, Maxwell, DJ, McHale etc)
41. Sam Perkins 6.30
42. Cedric Maxwell 6.20 (helped Bird, Parish, DJ, McHale etc)
43. A.C. Green 6.18 (helped Magic, Worthy, Scott)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Defensive Win Shares

NBA/ABA
Rank Player DWS

1. Scottie Pippen 13.76 (Amazing Defensive Help for Jordan, Grant etc *Arguably The Best Perimeter Defender of All Time)
2. Tim Duncan 12.51 (Should Have Been Defender of the Year 3-4 Times)
3. Michael Jordan* 12.10 (Helped Pippen Defensively etc)
4. Karl Malone 11.53 (had Great Defensive help in Eaton, Bayly but ofcourse helped them)
5. Ben Wallace 11.30
6. Larry Bird* 10.98
7. Hakeem Olajuwon* 10.85
8. Shaquille O'Neal 10.76
9. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 10.30
10. David Robinson* 9.82 (helped Duncan Defensively)
11. Patrick Ewing* 9.80 (UNDERRATED DEFENDER)
12. Magic Johnson* 9.72
13. Julius Erving* 9.59 (played passed his Prime with Barkley ages 34-37)
14. Dennis Rodman 9.32 (Defensive Help for Pistons and Bulls)
15. Robert Parish* 8.98 (Defensive help for you know..)
16. Robert Horry 8.70 (defensive help for Hakeem)
17. Horace Grant 8.32 (Defensive help for Jordan, Pippen and Shaq)
18. Charles Oakley 7.86
19. Rasheed Wallace 7.81
20. John Stockton* 7.05
21. Isiah Thomas* 6.84
22. Bill Laimbeer 6.78
23. Dennis Johnson 6.38
24. Kobe Bryant 6.31
25. Jason Kidd 6.20
26. Kevin McHale* 6.14
27. Clyde Drexler* 6.04
28. Elvin Hayes* 6.03
29. Charles Barkley* 5.95

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares

NBA/ABA
Rank Player WS

1. Karl Malone 231.62
2. Michael Jordan* 208.52
3. John Stockton* 205.35

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 190.15
5. Shaquille O'Neal 178.15

6. David Robinson* 177.14 (Alone till he got Duncan)

7. Charles Barkley* 175.96 (Alone)

8. Moses Malone* 175.47 (only 1 Season with Starting Barkley)

9. Reggie Miller 172.37 (Alone!)

10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 163.40

11. Julius Erving* 158.30 (played passed his prime with Barkley: ages 34-37)

12. Kevin Garnett 157.66

13. Magic Johnson* 155.85

14. Artis Gilmore 149.79

15. Tim Duncan 148.52

16. Gary Payton 145.93

17. Robert Parish* 145.69
18. Larry Bird* 144.81

19. Clyde Drexler* 139.14 (compared to Bryant, Alone!)

20. Kobe Bryant 138.83

21. Dirk Nowitzki 138.36 (Alone!)
22. Adrian Dantley* 134.02 (Alone!)

23. Patrick Ewing* 124.76

24. Scottie Pippen 122.60

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Win Shares

NBA
Rank Player WS

1. Michael Jordan* 38.67
2. Magic Johnson* 33.15 (helped you know who)
3. Shaquille O'Neal 31.09 (helped Bryant, Wade etc)

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.93 (helped Oscar then Magic etc)
5. Tim Duncan 27.71 (helped Robinson, Ginoboli, Parker)

6. Larry Bird* 24.71 (hel for you know who)
7. Kobe Bryant 23.03 (helped Shaq and Has Always had Great Help more than Any Superstar since Magic and Bird)

8. Scottie Pippen 22.99 (help for you know who)

9. Hakeem Olajuwon* 22.86 (Reason to Why Rockets Won but he HAD DEFENSIVE HELP)

10. Karl Malone 22.79 (help for you know who)
11. John Stockton* 21.24 (hel for you know who)

12. Kevin McHale* 20.55 (hel for you know who)

13. Charles Barkley* 19.79 (Alone!)
14. Reggie Miller 19.77 (Alone)

15. Chauncey Billups 19.76

16. Horace Grant 19.53 (help for you know who)

17. Robert Horry 18.45 (help for Hakeem)

18. David Robinson* 17.78 (hel for you know who)

19. Dirk Nowitzki 17.38 (Alone!)

20. Julius Erving* 16.60 (played passed his Prime with Barkley ages: 34-37)

21. Clyde Drexler* 15.92 (almost Alone)

22. Robert Parish* 15.50 (help for you know who)
23. James Worthy* 15.05 (help for you know who)

ARE YOU "F-CKEN" TELLING ME...THAT BARKLEY GOT MORE "DEFENSIVE" AND "OFFENSIVE" HELP THAN OTHER "SUPERSTARS"?

O PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! :mad:

:oldlol: :hammerhead: :banghead:

Duncan is no.1 btw. he has the stats and the hardware.

:no: THAT BE BARKLEY

"IF TAKEN INTO ACOUNT... HIS DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE TEAMATES & TEAMS COMPARED TO OTHER GREATS IN THEIR PRIMES"

[D-Rose]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ows_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Offensive Win Shares

NBA/ABA
Rank Player OWS

1. Michael Jordan* 26.57
2. Magic Johnson* 23.43 (helped Kareem)
3. Shaquille O'Neal 20.32 (helped Bryant)
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 17.62 (helped Magic)
5. Kobe Bryant 16.72 (helped Shaq)
6. Reggie Miller 16.10
7. Tim Duncan 15.20 (helped Robinson)
8. Kevin McHale* 14.42 (helped Bird etc)
9. Chauncey Billups 14.32
10. John Stockton* 14.18
11. Julius Erving* 14.17 (played passed his Prime with Barkley)
12. Charles Barkley* 13.84 (ALONE)
13. Larry Bird* 13.73 (helped McHale etc)
14. Dirk Nowitzki 13.51
15. Hakeem Olajuwon* 12.01
16. Karl Malone 11.25
17. Horace Grant 11.21 (helped Jordan, Pippen, Shaq etc)
18. Steve Nash 10.13
19. Clyde Drexler* 9.88
20. Jeff Hornacek 9.83
21. James Worthy* 9.78 (helped Magic, Kareem etc)
22. Robert Horry 9.75
23. Moses Malone* 9.54 (played only 1 Season with Starting Barkley)
24. Scottie Pippen 9.22 (helped Jordan, Grant etc and Blazers)
25. Terry Porter 8.77 (helped Drexler)
26. Bobby Jones 8.47 (helped the Early 80s Sixers)
27. Ray Allen 8.32
28. Kevin Johnson 8.02
29. David Robinson* 7.96 (helped Duncan)
30. George Gervin* 7.93 (ALONE!)
31. Manu Ginobili 7.89 (helped Duncan, Parker etc)
32. Maurice Cheeks 7.76
33. LeBron James 7.48
34. Derek Fisher 7.42
35. Gary Payton 7.05
36. Byron Scott 6.70
37. Michael Cooper 6.68
38. Dennis Johnson 6.61 (helped Bird, Parish, Maxwell, McHale etc)
39. Gus Williams 6.54
40. Robert Parish* 6.51 (helped Bird, Maxwell, DJ, McHale etc)
41. Sam Perkins 6.30
42. Cedric Maxwell 6.20 (helped Bird, Parish, DJ, McHale etc)
43. A.C. Green 6.18 (helped Magic, Worthy, Scott)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Defensive Win Shares

NBA/ABA
Rank Player DWS

1. Scottie Pippen 13.76 (Amazing Defensive Help for Jordan, Grant etc *Arguably The Best Perimeter Defender of All Time)
2. Tim Duncan 12.51 (Should Have Been Defender of the Year 3-4 Times)
3. Michael Jordan* 12.10 (Helped Pippen Defensively etc)
4. Karl Malone 11.53 (had Great Defensive help in Eaton, Bayly but ofcourse helped them)
5. Ben Wallace 11.30
6. Larry Bird* 10.98
7. Hakeem Olajuwon* 10.85
8. Shaquille O'Neal 10.76
9. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 10.30
10. David Robinson* 9.82 (helped Duncan Defensively)
11. Patrick Ewing* 9.80 (UNDERRATED DEFENDER)
12. Magic Johnson* 9.72
13. Julius Erving* 9.59 (played passed his Prime with Barkley ages 34-37)
14. Dennis Rodman 9.32 (Defensive Help for Pistons and Bulls)
15. Robert Parish* 8.98 (Defensive help for you know..)
16. Robert Horry 8.70 (defensive help for Hakeem)
17. Horace Grant 8.32 (Defensive help for Jordan, Pippen and Shaq)
18. Charles Oakley 7.86
19. Rasheed Wallace 7.81
20. John Stockton* 7.05
21. Isiah Thomas* 6.84
22. Bill Laimbeer 6.78
23. Dennis Johnson 6.38
24. Kobe Bryant 6.31
25. Jason Kidd 6.20
26. Kevin McHale* 6.14
27. Clyde Drexler* 6.04
28. Elvin Hayes* 6.03
29. Charles Barkley* 5.95

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares

NBA/ABA
Rank Player WS

1. Karl Malone 231.62
2. Michael Jordan* 208.52
3. John Stockton* 205.35
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 190.15
5. Shaquille O'Neal 178.15
6. David Robinson* 177.14 (Alone till he got Duncan)
7. Charles Barkley* 175.96 (Alone)

8. Moses Malone* 175.47
9. Reggie Miller 172.37
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 163.40
11. Julius Erving* 158.30
12. Kevin Garnett 157.66
13. Magic Johnson* 155.85
14. Artis Gilmore 149.79
15. Tim Duncan 148.52
16. Gary Payton 145.93
17. Robert Parish* 145.69
18. Larry Bird* 144.81
19. Clyde Drexler* 139.14
20. Kobe Bryant 138.83
21. Dirk Nowitzki 138.36
22. Adrian Dantley* 134.02
23. Patrick Ewing* 124.76
24. Scottie Pippen 122.60

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Win Shares

NBA
Rank Player WS

1. Michael Jordan* 38.67
2. Magic Johnson* 33.15
3. Shaquille O'Neal 31.09 (helped Bryant, Wade etc)
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.93 (helped Oscar then Magic etc)
5. Tim Duncan 27.71 (helped Robinson, Ginoboli, Parker)
6. Larry Bird* 24.71 (hel for you know who)
7. Kobe Bryant 23.03 (helped Shaq)
8. Scottie Pippen 22.99 (help for you know who)
9. Hakeem Olajuwon* 22.86 (Reason to Why Rockets Won but he HAD DEFENSIVE HELP)
10. Karl Malone 22.79 (help for you know who)
11. John Stockton* 21.24 (hel for you know who)
12. Kevin McHale* 20.55 (hel for you know who)
13. Charles Barkley* 19.79 (Alone!)
14. Reggie Miller 19.77 (Alone)

15. Chauncey Billups 19.76
16. Horace Grant 19.53 (help for you know who)
17. Robert Horry 18.45
18. David Robinson* 17.78 (hel for you know who)
19. Dirk Nowitzki 17.38
20. Julius Erving* 16.60 (played passed his Prime with Barkley ages: 34-37)
21. Clyde Drexler* 15.92
22. Robert Parish* 15.50 (help for you know who)
23. James Worthy* 15.05 (help for you know who)[/B]

ARE YOU "F-CKEN" TELLING ME...THAT BARKLEY GOT MORE "DEFENSIVE" AND "OFFENSIVE" HELP THAN OTHER "SUPERSTARS"?

O PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! :mad:

:oldlol: :hammerhead: :banghead:

Duncan is no.1 btw. he has the stats and the hardware.

:no: THAT BE BARKLEY "IF TAKEN INTO ACOUNT... HIS DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE TEAMATES & TEAMS COMPARED TO OTHER GREATS IN THEIR PRIMES"[/B]

Welcome back Sir Charles?

[CB4GOATPF]

Welcome back Sir Charles?

That be me schooling and delivering more truth in ISH again :pimp:

[unknown101]

How come you have all those colors in your posts, but I will agree with you just cause Barkley is the funniest dude in the world

[CB4GOATPF]

How come you have all those colors in your posts, but I will agree with you just cause Barkley is the funniest dude in the world

Colors are to Show What Players Played in that Superstars Same Team in "Their Primes" and "That Players Prime"

Barkley be the Best PF Ever not because funny, short, overweight or a bad boy but because tis truth :confusedshrug:

[RocketGreatness]

Sir Charles, I use to believe Karl was better than Barkley. But I think I might go with Sir Charles now.

People mainly kids just say Malone was better because he played defense. They just say well Malone played defense so he was better.

People don't realize that Barkley averaged 15 straight seasons with Double-figure rebounds. KAJ couldn't do it, Ewing couldn't do it, Mailman couldn't do it, Shaq couldn't do it and many others. People also forget that Barkley could play defense when he wanted to, he was lazy most of the time but he could play defense when he wanted to. Kind of like Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady.

Barkley is better than Malone in my opinion, but it's still close.

[CB4GOATPF]

Sir Charles, I use to believe Karl was better than Barkley. But I think I might go with Sir Charles now.

People mainly kids just say Malone was better because he played defense. They just say well Malone played defense so he was better.

People don't realize that Barkley averaged 15 straight seasons with Double-figure rebounds. KAJ couldn't do it, Ewing couldn't do it, Mailman couldn't do it, Shaq couldn't do it and many others. People also forget that Barkley could play defense when he wanted to, he was lazy most of the time but he could play defense when he wanted to. Kind of like Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady.

Barkley is better than Malone in my opinion, but it's still close.

You said it right.."Kids" most of them watched the NBA from 96-2000 When Barkley was injured, 28 lbs overweight, bad back and destroyed his knee in 97 before the Play-Offs that has nothing to do with THE REAL BARKLEY...

They also forget Barkley was Better at Pretty Much Everything Else...and if you include Defense when he had an "Actual Above Average Defensive Center" in Moses Malone 85-86 he finished 7th in Defensive Rating while Karl always had a Great Imposing "Defensive Center" ofcourse Mark Eaton the Best Interior Defender of the 80s, Top Shot Blocker and Blk% of All Time, Thurl Baily whom was a 6`11 SF capable of Guarding 3 Positions...He was sorrunded with Great Defenders while Barkley wasn`t

Barkley was a Better Scorer (no :no: just because you average more PPG doesn`t make u abetter scorer; Efectivness, FG%, FGAs etc are as important)

Not To Mention Barkley could "Design His Shot from Anywhere on the Court" no need for Pick and Rolls or Running to Recieve an Easy Fast Break Pass

Better Game Creator: Barkley could Pass way Better than Malone and was a Problem for PFs because they had to Guard him 12-15 FT away from the Rim Tightly

*Was More Doubled than any other PF in his Time
*Created Most Ilegal Defenses of the 80s...
*Player that had Most Defensive Rotations in his Time (Fear of Fouling out)

Better Rebounder

Better Shot Blocker, Stealer and Help Defender

Better Clutch Performer...Way Better...

Skilled Player, Shooter, Ball Handler, Post Player, Driver etc etc etc

There is Just So Many Things that Barkley was "Clearly Better than Malone"

[CB4GOATPF]

:cheers:

[D-Rose]

Sir Charles, enlighten me you think Chris Bosh #4 will eventually become the GOAT PF? Very interesting...I mean I can't possibly think of another conadidate that has the initials CB...I can only think TD or KM....weird right???

[purple32gold]

BARKLEY VS MALONE (PRIMES)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

Ages 23 to 32: Seasons 1986-87 to 1995-96 as Focal Scorers and Players.

Total of 26 Games: ages 23 to 32

They Played 11 More Games: ages 33-36: When Barkley Was a Role Player, 2nd Fiddle and 2nd-3rd Scoring Option

*Excluding the 1985-86 Season because the Stats aren`t found for that season: both Barkley and Malone where age 22
*BTW Barkley and Malone are te same age:

Malone came to the NBA at age 22 (1985-86)
Barkley came to the NBA At age 21 (1984-85)

*Including Barkley`s Injury In 1993-94 and the fact he was set to retire after the 1994-95 season.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Played:

Barkley

966 MPG/ 26 games

37.2 MPG

Malone

983 MPG /26 games

37.8 MPG

*Malone Played More

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scoring Efficiency

Charles Barkley

204 FGs / 399 FGAs
594 Pts / 26

22.8 PPG

(15.3 FGAs PG *Shooting Less)

51.13% FG


Karl Malone

231 FGs / 465 FGAs
645 Pts/ 26 games

24.8 PPG

(17.9 FGAs PG *Shooting More)

49.67% FG

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Including 2-Point FG% (A PFs Inside Scoring Efficiency Job)


Barkley: 67 Three-Point FGAs
Barkley: 20 Three-Point FGs

Barkley: 399 - 67 = 332 Two-Point FGAs
Barkley: 204 - 20 = 184 Two-Point FGs

Barkley Shot: 55.42% Two-Point FG against Malone

Malone: 15 Three-Point FGAs
Maloe: 4 Three Point FGs

Malone

465 - 15 = 450 Two Point FGAs
231 - 4 = 227 Two-Point FGs

Malone Shot 50.44% Two-Point FG against Barkley

*Barkley Shot 5% Better than Malone Inside. That`s like a Player Shooting 45% against one and the other Shooting 50% against that one....

*Malone Played More and Shot Less Effective

*Malone had THE GREATEST PASSER AND GAME CREATING POINT GUARD to DESIGN HIS SCORING - JOHN STOCKTON

Barkley was the Superior Scorer against Malone

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rebounding:

Barkley

262 / 26 games

10.1 RPG

Malone

248 / 26 games

9.5 RPG

Barkley was the Superior Rebounder against Malone

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assists:

Barkley

105 / 26 games

4.0 APG

Malone

70 / 26 games

2.7 APG

*Barkely was the Way Better Assiter than Malone and Not To Forget Barkley was Doubled More than Malone

*Barkley was Also the Better Game Creator because he had to BE THE SECOND LEAD GAME CREATOR after his Point Guard for Most of his Prime

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blocks:

Barkley

16 / 26 games

0.62 BPG

Malone

20 / 26 games

0.77 BPG

*Malone Blocked Better than Barkley when facing him but we all know who was the Better Shot Blocker (Barkley)

*Not to Forget Karl Malone Had Way Better Defensive Help with Thurl Baily (could guard SFs and PFs, was quick-athletic-agil) and ofcourse

THEE BEST INTERIOR DEFENDER AND SHOT BLOCKER AND OVERAL ONE OF THE BEST DEFENDERS IN THE LATE 80s-EARLY 90s:

MARK EATON for ......PAINT DEFENDING HELP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/eatonma01.html

Defensive Rating

1982-83 NBA 97.8 (10)
1984-85 NBA 96.5 (1)
1985-86 NBA 100.0 (5)
1986-87 NBA 100.2 (2)
1987-88 NBA 100.7 (2)
1988-89 NBA 97.7 (2)
1989-90 NBA 102.4 (9)
1991-92 NBA 102.5 (10)


Blocks Per Game

1982-83 NBA 3.4 (3)
1983-84 NBA 4.3 (1)
1984-85 NBA 5.6 (1)
1985-86 NBA 4.6 (2)
1986-87 NBA 4.1 (1)
1987-88 NBA 3.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 3.8 (2)
1989-90 NBA 2.5 (6)
1990-91 NBA 2.4 (7)
1991-92 NBA 2.5 (9)
Career NBA 3.5 (1)
Career 3.5 (1)

Block Pct

1982-83 NBA 9.2 (1)
1983-84 NBA 8.5 (1)
1984-85 NBA 8.7 (1)
1985-86 NBA 8.1 (2)
1986-87 NBA 7.4 (2)
1987-88 NBA 6.4 (3)
1988-89 NBA 6.5 (2)
1989-90 NBA 5.5 (6)
1991-92 NBA 6.2 (4)
Career NBA 6.9 (5)
Career 6.9 (5)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steals:

Barkley

44/ 26 games

SPG: 1.7 SPG

Malone

34/ 26 games

1.3 SPG

*Barkley was the Better Floor Defender than Malone and Yes We Know Who Was the Better Stealer (Barkley)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turn Overs:

Barkley

89/26

3.4 TOV PG

Malone

78/ 26

3.0 TOV PG

*Ofcourse Malone had Less Turn Overs...His Job Was to Wait for Stockton to Design Him the Pick and Roll or Fast Break Pass while he had to do ZERO GAME CREATING with THE BEST PASSER OF ALL TIME LEADING, a SG and a SF that Had THE SECOND AND THIRD GAME CREATING JOB

*Barkley`s Job Was To Do Everything from The PF Spot from 1986 to 1992

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personal Fouls:

Barkley

95/26 games

3.7 PF

Malone

93/26 games

3.6 PF

*Barkley fouled a bit more but obviously Malone never had to Guard Barkley as much as he had to Guard him because BARKLEY WAS A MISSMATCH so there was usually 3 PLAYERS ROTATING ON HIM, including Malone

*It was to Prevent Karl Malone (Their Best Scorer, Rebounder and One of the Best Defenders) from Fouling Out

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FT Shooting:


*Barkley had the Edge FT Shooting against Malone but We All Know Who Was the Better FT Shooter (Malone)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dedicated to All Those Idiots Who Base The Head to Head Matchups After Their Primes from Ages 33-36: after Barkley left to Houston as a 2nd-3rd Focal Scorer and 2nd Fiddle with a Dead Back (Like Bird), Knee Injuries and Overweight...

Insead of Their Primes ages 23-32 (missing ages 22)

DON`T EVER UNDERRATE BARKLEY AGAIN!

GREETINGS!!!

i do not understand the point of making a thread asking for everyone's opinion when it is apparent that you made your mind up already. waste of internet

[Bigsmoke]

KG > Barkley

[CB4GOATPF]

[B]Not Only Did Barkley Outplay Karl Malone for 70% of Their Total 100% Head to Head Match Ups When HEALTHY and BOTH in Their PRIMES but he was THE TOTAL BETTER PLAYER

HEALTHY PRIME BARKLEY (before back and knee injuries) VS HEALTHY PRIME MALONE 1985-1985: ages 22-31

PLAYER COMPARISON:

Barkley

37 MPG (Playing Less Minutes)

22.7 PPG (14,6 FGAs PG only) on 55.5% FG (Way More Effective Scorer!)

11,3 RPG (More!)
3.8 APG (More!)
1.6 SPG (More!)
0.9 BPG (More!)
3.2 TOVs PG [COLOR="DarkRed"](Ofcourse! He Didn

[godofgods]

Malone is better.

[White Chocolate]

Malone is better.


In terms of longevity and dedication, he was light years ahead of Barkley. In their primes, Barkley was better.

[big baller]

How the hell do you find the time to type so goddamn much??? I mean does anyone honestly ever read one of Sir Charles posts?

[White Chocolate]

How the hell do you find the time to type so goddamn much??? I mean does anyone honestly ever read one of Sir Charles posts?


Not usually. When he doesn't use stats, he's a knowledgable poster. The constant usage of stats and various colors is like a wimpy guy to a chick. Huge turn off.

[CB4GOATPF]

[B]I am giving BROKEN DOWN STATS that show truth as it was. As i saw it LIVE other than PER GAME RAW STATS.

Charles was Better than Malone no doubt. It was only When Chuck

[CB4GOATPF]

In terms of longevity and dedication, he was light years ahead of Barkley. In their primes, Barkley was better.

In terms of longevity, dedication (off season weight training, fitness etc), no getting as injured yes

IN TERMS OF BEING A BETTER PLAYER...Barkley was BETTER.

[Round Mound]

In terms of longevity, dedication (off season weight training, fitness etc), no getting as injured yes

IN TERMS OF BEING A BETTER PLAYER...Barkley was BETTER.

:applause:

[Clippersfan86]

yo Sir Charles.

sometimes, I think you're joking with these Barkley threads homie. THATS ALL you do. and most of them arent very different from each other. get off Barkley's jock man. I'm a fan but **** dude :hammerhead:

:lol . Funny part is when Barkley won a category in this comparison... he put it in huge letters.. and in different bold color but when Malone was better at something he got no big letters saying he was better at it. Funny that this dude is pushing agenda like this.

[Round Mound]

:lol . Funny part is when Barkley won a category in this comparison... he put it in huge letters.. and in different bold color but when Malone was better at something he got no big letters saying he was better at it. Funny that this dude is pushing agenda like this.

U mad that the truth is being demonstrated with stats even though most NBA Fans that saw the 80s and 90s know Barkley was Better than Karl Malone. His resume looks nicer because he played more years injury free.

Same thing wil lbe said when Kobe plays more seasons at a good level. Will that make him a better player than MJ?

Hell No! The thing is that he was more Dominant in his game and Barkley was Way More Dominant than Malone. Especially in the play-offs.

The colors are used to demonstrate and make it easier to see the evidence i have prooven both head to head, per, eff, +/- and ws from 1985 to 1995: the last year of a healthy Barkley.

[PHaYze]

CB4 GOAT PF :oldlol: :lol :roll: :oldlol: :lol :roll: :banana: :facepalm :oldlol: :lol

[Jacks3]

:applause:
Applauding your own post. Really? :facepalm

[westsideozzie]

Barkley was better than Malone. But Charles Barkley already said Tim is the greatest PF of all time. Barkley said it..

[D.J.]

CB4 GOAT PF :oldlol: :lol :roll: :oldlol: :lol :roll: :banana: :facepalm :oldlol: :lol


As long as CB isn't Chris Bosh.

[Round Mound]

Shot Made & Missed Diferential Stat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNib-lu92Ok&feature=channel_video_title

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/nbaalltimescorers.htm

SHOT MADE/MISS DIFFERENTIAL STAT-
(minimum 15,000 shot attempts)

Unstoppable shot makers (+1 - infinity):

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: +3,367.5
2. Shaquille O'Neal: +3,200.5
3. Wilt Chamberlain: +1,865
4. Charles Barkley: +1,434

5. Robert Parish: +1,314
6. Adrian Dantley: +1,220.5
7. Karl Malone: +888.5
8. Bernard King: +562.5
9. Hakeem Olajuwon: +519.5
10. Walt Bellamy: +488
11. Walter Davis: +443.5
12. Bob Lanier: +431
13. George Gervin: +381.5
14. Alex English: +291
15. Reggie Miller: +263
16. Tim Duncan: +248
17. Dale Ellis: +230.5
18. Larry Bird: +172.5
19. Patrick Ewing: +172.5
20. Michael Jordan: +137.5
21. Kevin Garnett: +0.5

Elite shot makers (0 - negative 500):

22. Dirk Nowitzki: -193.5
23. Ray Allen: -332.5
24. Lou Hudson: -345
25. Moses Malone: -351
26. Scottie Pippen: -371

Good shot makers (negative 501 - negative 1,000):

27. Chris Webber: -508
28. Terry Cummings: -516
29. Calvin Murphy: -531
30. Clyde Drexler: -589.5
31. Oscar Robertson: -604
32. Eddie Johnson: -626
33. Gary Payton: -716
34. Mitch Richmond: -765
35. Paul Pierce: -841
36. Tom Chambers: -879.5
37. Antawn Jamison: -899
38. Michael Finley: -976
39. Jerry West: -1,000

Shot jackers (negative 1,001 - negative 2,000):

40. Vince Carter: -1,126.5
41. Kobe Bryant: -1,212
42. Dominique Wilkins: -1,307
43. Isiah Thomas: -1,317
44. Tracy McGrady: -1,427.5
45. Gail Goodrich: -1,438
46. Cliff Robinson: -1,470.5
47. Rick Barry: -1,622.5
48. Hal Greer: -1,803
49. Dave Bing: -1,845

Shot too much (negative 2,001 - negative infinity):

50. Bob Pettit: -2,174
51. Allen Iverson: -2,442.5
52. Elgin Baylor: -2,785
53. John Havlicek: -2,904
54. Elvin Hayes: -2,952.5
55. Dolph Schayes: -3,721
56. Bob Cousy: -4,132

Once Again Prooving Barkley`s Offensive Efficiency Dominance as a 6`4 3/4 PF way More Dominant than Malone or Duncan.

Charles was Shorter More Athletic Prior Shaq-like Version with Guard Instincts, Handles and Center Like Play in the Post and For Timing Block Shots Footwork ala Center.

Barkley is Indeed A TOP 10 ALL TIME PLAYER

[Burgz]

duncan won a title with both of them still in the league

[Round Mound]

duncan won a title with both of them still in the league

When both where declining :facepalm ...especially Barkley who had the same back problem as Bird 1995 on and in Houston he ****ed up his knee twice. Overweight Barkley totally dominated Duncan at ages 33/34.

Malone stood up next to Duncan the same age.

[Round Mound]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7570958&posted=1#post7570958