West: As far as skills go, Kobe is No. 1 on the list (all-time)

[The Logo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=westtake-090613


West, meanwhile, has his own examples to justify Bryant's all-but-certain forthcoming selection as NBA Finals MVP, unless L.A. becomes the first team out of 30 in Finals history to take a 3-1 lead and then lose the next three games.

Referring to Gasol, who was his franchise player when he was the Grizzlies' team president from 2002 to 2007, West said: "His effort is certainly greater than it was in Memphis, I'll tell you that, and it's because Kobe Bryant has driven him to that point."

"Any time you start talking about who the best is, you're always going to have controversy. But Kobe is upper, upper echelon. I'm not talking about the top 10 [of all time]. This franchise has had a lot of good players. Absolutely the greatest leader I've ever seen would be Magic Johnson, and he was also the greatest teammate, but as far as skill Kobe is No. 1 on the list.

"When you're that great, sometimes people don't want to give you the credit. But when Kobe walks away from this game, he's going to leave huge footprints, just as Michael Jordan did.
I don't care much for opinions of former players but this isn't just another meaningless opinon from a Charles Barkley or a Magic Johnson. West's opinion means more than that of any other player because he is the Logo and he doesn't give opinions too often. But when he does, everyone listens because he knows what he's talking about. BTW, he makes a great argument for WHY Kobe deserves the finals MVP.

Do y'all think Kobe is the #1 Laker in terms of skills? This is a huge compliment since it comes from one of the greatest players ever to put on a Laker jersey.

As for the haters (talking to you bruceblitz), do listen to West's words carefully.

"This is a once-every-25-years player. Appreciate him while he's here."

[andgar923]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=westtake-090613



I don't care much for opinions of former players but this isn't just another meaningless opinon from a Charles Barkley or a Magic Johnson. West's opinion means more than that of any other player because he is the Logo and he doesn't give opinions too often. But when he does, everyone listens because he knows what he's talking about.

Do y'all think Kobe is the #1 Laker in terms of skills? This is a huge compliment since it comes from one of the greatest players ever to put on a Laker jersey.

As for the haters (talking to you bruceblitz), do listen to West's words carefully.

I'd say Yes all time for Lakers

[andgar923]

Not to take away anything away from this article (seriouslY) but we have to take most things West says about Kobe with a grain of salt (seriously).

[CantStop]

"This is a once-every-25-years player. Appreciate him while he's here."

Once every 25 years? Try lifetime you old man.

[Kblaze8855]

Laker? Arguable. Very arguable even. The best lakers have been bigman who are naturally not going to be as well rounded. Magic is the exception and Kobe is at least a better shooter, has a better handle far as breaking down his man, and makes a wider variety of shots. Magic was magic because he was the best there ever was at the things his team needed him to do. Magic didnt need to go one on one at the top of the key and make a fadeaway over his man. He had Kareem/Worthy on the block and no ego at all when it came to letting them shine. Magic had little use for much of what Kobe does.

[paintingshade]

lifetime? ok kobe is good, not that good.

jordan is the better player, kobe is more skilled. makes sense.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

overall skills? yes, probably #1 Laker.
But he is not the #1 Laker all-time. obviously.

[andgar923]

lifetime? ok kobe is good, not that good.

jordan is the better player, kobe is more skilled. makes sense.

He was talking about "Lakers."

The title of the thread is misleading.

West was stating that Kobe is the most skilled "Laker" of all time.

[brandonislegend]

skillwise kobe is unbelievable, maybe better than jordan

but i would still take alot of players in their primes over kobe

[Allstar24]

Once every 25 years? Try lifetime you old man.
You're not content with "once every 25 years?" :oldlol:

I'm with Jerry West, I've been saying Kobe is the most skilled Laker ever.

[andgar923]

skillwise kobe is unbelievable, maybe better than jordan

but i would still take alot of players in their primes over kobe

Not really (sorry.... couldn't help myself LOL)

[Kingwillball]

Kobe is VERY overrated...The reason why he is hated on soo much cause the amount of Unneccasary love he recieves in the media is sickening. I guess they feel like Riding the Kobe train out a little longer especially with another championship coming but another year or two will be all aboard the LBJ Hype Express for the next 6 or 7 years at least.

[Allstar24]

Kobe is VERY overrated...The reason why he is hated on soo much cause the amount of Unneccasary love he recieves in the media is sickening. I guess they feel like Riding the Kobe train out a little longer especially with another championship coming but another year or two will be all aboard the LBJ Hype Express for the next 6 or 7 years at least.
Speaking of unnecessary, it's sad that you feel the need to talk about LeBron in every topic.

[andgar923]

Kobe is VERY overrated...The reason why he is hated on soo much cause the amount of Unneccasary love he recieves in the media is sickening. I guess they feel like Riding the Kobe train out a little longer especially with another championship coming but another year or two will be all aboard the LBJ Hype Express for the next 6 or 7 years at least.

He's not VERY overrated.

[GUUS]

he has amazing skills, but at times plays like he has the mind of JR Smith, thats Kobe's problem, takes too many stupid Kobe shots when he's doubled and easier to just pass to an open team mate

[Brunch@Five]

Kareem does have an argument. Footwork, timing on blocks, passing, defensive rotations, post-defense are skills too, no? Leadership would go to "The Captain" as well I'd say.

[andgar923]

he has amazing skills, but at times plays like he has the mind of JR Smith, thats Kobe's problem, takes too many stupid Kobe shots when he's doubled and easier to just pass to an open team mate

At times he plays beautifully.

Footwork is crisp, his movement is slick, his vision is sharp, his moves are defined.

But just as he has moments like those, there's moments where its the complete opposite as equally.

And like you mentioned, its like he has brain farts or something. But even then, his mechanics seem off.

His footwork isn't the same, his moves aren't the same, his shot looks like he's just throwing it up etc.etc.

And its been like that his ENTIRE career.

Yes I know it sounds like I'm 'hatin' but its the truth.

I've mentioned it time and time again, he's like two Kobes:

http://www.bryanshulkpage.com/Images/s10001.jpg

And the same translates on the defensive end as well.

He'd make a great defensive play or play great ball denial, but then get sh!tted on by scrubs.

[Maniak]

If Kobe was always 24 Kobe, and never was 8 Kobe, Id take him more seriously as a skilled player.

As an HUGE Kobe hater, I must say as 24 he has matured and gotten better, whilst as 8 he was a "ME FIRST" player. If he always was a more mature guy, I would respect him as a player more.

As for the article, its very arguable, but probably true

Also, you can sometimes see #8 come out and shine in Kobe.

[Sanity]

"Skill" wise I think a guy like Tracy McGrady could have a case. This is kinda getting into the "potential" type argument though.

[andgar923]

If Kobe was always 24 Kobe, and never was 8 Kobe, Id take him more seriously as a skilled player.

As an HUGE Kobe hater, I must say as 24 he has matured and gotten better, whilst as 8 he was a "ME FIRST" player. If he always was a more mature guy, I would respect him as a player more.

As for the article, its very arguable, but probably true

Also, you can sometimes see #8 come out and shine in Kobe.

Sweet avi. :rockon:

[Brunch@Five]

.

playoffs are not done yet :cheers:

[LakersLaLaLand]

Once every 25 years? Try lifetime you old man.

lifetime? Apparently you don't know anything about the NBA. Think of the awesome talent in each decade. Lifetime is a broad timeline that doesn't apply to your statement. Should I take it seriously...

[LakersLaLaLand]

At times he plays beautifully.

Footwork is crisp, his movement is slick, his vision is sharp, his moves are defined.

But just as he has moments like those, there's moments where its the complete opposite as equally.

And like you mentioned, its like he has brain farts or something. But even then, his mechanics seem off.

His footwork isn't the same, his moves aren't the same, his shot looks like he's just throwing it up etc.etc.

And its been like that his ENTIRE career.

Yes I know it sounds like I'm 'hatin' but its the truth.

I've mentioned it time and time again, he's like two Kobes:

http://www.bryanshulkpage.com/Images/s10001.jpg

And the same translates on the defensive end as well.

He'd make a great defensive play or play great ball denial, but then get sh!tted on by scrubs.

Kobes Handles could be better. But then we would be nitpicking.

[Hotlantadude81]

No matter who blows the smoke, I'm just not going to buy it.

Kobe is a great streaky scorer and a solid passer and decent rebounder. I've rarely been impressed with his defense and his streaky shooting is off putting. At their best, I'll still take Shaq over Kobe. I know Shaq's free throw shooting hurts the team late in games, but so does Kobe's streaking shooting sometimes.

And I'm no hater, I rarely post my thoughts on Kobe. I hope he wins a title so that it can't be held against him that he didn't win one as "the man".

[CantStop]

No matter who blows the smoke, I'm just not going to buy it.

Kobe is a great streaky scorer and a solid passer and decent rebounder. I've rarely been impressed with his defense and his streaky shooting is off putting. At their best, I'll still take Shaq over Kobe. I know Shaq's free throw shooting hurts the team late in games, but so does Kobe's streaking shooting sometimes.

How is Kobe a streaky scorer? Do you even know what a streaky scorer is? Streaky scorers don't average 35 ppg.

[Hotlantadude81]

How is Kobe a streaky scorer? Do you even know what a streaky scorer is? Streaky scorers don't average 35 ppg.

What I mean is he will have periods were he shoots like MJ and others he can miss several in a row. The MJ comparison is often tasty because at times you will wonder if he's ever going to miss. But then so often he fires up the bricks Antonie Walker style. It's a little bit of MJ and a bit of AI.

[32jazz]

Not to take away anything away from this article (seriouslY) but we have to take most things West says about Kobe with a grain of salt (seriously).

When Jerry West says Lebron is the best all around 'perimeter' player in the game today(I agree) everyone touted West's genius ,but now that he says Kobe can be the best all time & agrees with Steve Smith about Kobe's skills he is dismissed.:oldlol:

Players who have gotten dismissed this past week or so on the ISH speaking highly of Kobe:
Rick Barry,Steve Smith, Alonzo Mourning,MJ & now Jerry West:confusedshrug:


He was speaking all time & not just the Lakers & if he was limiting his discussion to the Lakers he would have never referred to MJ & several other non Lakers in the interview. West is speaking all time overall ,but I know he will be dismissed because he traded for Kobe & wants to make himself look better as a GM:oldlol:

Obviously Jerry West(who admitted Kobe passed him years ago) has an agenda:rolleyes:

"Hello, my name is Hate".

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/090608&sportCat-nba

[Maniak]

playoffs are not done yet :cheers:
I know, but what avvie would you want me to have? I lost the first 2 you sent me, and the Cavs are out now.

[23ajay]

he is the most skilled laker of all time but he is not the best team player

[The Logo]

When Jerry West says Lebron is the best all around 'perimeter' player in the game today(I agree) everyone touted West's genius ,but now that he says Kobe can be the best all time & agrees with Steve Smith about Kobe's skills he is dismissed.:oldlol:

Players who have gotten dismissed this past week or so on the ISH speaking highly of Kobe:
Rick Barry,Steve Smith, Alonzo Mourning,MJ & now Jerry West:confusedshrug:


He was speaking all time & not just the Lakers & if he was limiting his discussion to the Lakers he would have never referred to MJ & several other non Lakers in the interview. West is speaking all time overall ,but I know he will be dismissed because he traded for Kobe & wants to make himself look better as a GM:oldlol:

Obviously Jerry West(who admitted Kobe passed him years ago) has an agenda:rolleyes:

"Hello, my name is Hate".

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/090608&sportCat-nba
:applause:

But let's ignore the haters because their opinions don't mean anything at all. They sure won't be making the national news like the Logo. I know what Jerry West said means a lot to Kobe. After all the hits Kobe continues to take from the media, it was nice to see a great player give such high praise to him. As you mentioned, a lot of all-time greats have been giving Kobe props in the past few days. That is all that matters, how respected he is by his peers and by former greats.

[Mrofir]

Um

He's good

But I do like Shaq more in his prime

And Kareem more

Magic is overrated

but really awesome, really, really but I'll still take Kobe

Worthy is underrated

1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Kobc
6. eMagi

Kobe can't even fit his whole name into the 5 spot because Magic Johnson deserves at least one letter of his name in the 5 spot. So the e on Kobe had to move to #6. You understand.


Anyway, since West doesn't really talk that much and doesn't give his opinion, we should take him VERY seriously when he does. Except when he says Lebron has surpassed Kobe. Er.. yeah

Pippen > Rafer

[The Logo]

^This is not a LeBron thread but since you made up a false statement, I want to correct it. EVERYONE took West's comments very seriously when he said LeBron has surpassed Kobe. It was all over the media and internet, everyone blew it out of proportion and went too far that Jerry West had to call in and clarify his comments on Jim Rome's radio show.

So we should take him seriously in LeBron's case but not when he calls Kobe the most skilled player ever? Er.. yeah...

*crickets*

[Mrofir]

^This is not a LeBron thread but since you made up a false statement, I want to correct it. EVERYONE took West's comments very seriously when he said LeBron has surpassed Kobe. It was all over the media and internet, everyone blew it out of proportion and went too far that Jerry West had to call in and clarify his comments on Jim Rome's radio show.

So we should take him seriously in LeBron's case but not when he calls Kobe the most skilled player ever? Er.. yeah...

*crickets*


Actually.

He called him the most skilled LAKER ever...

And I don't really care what he said anyway, but I'll still take Shaq over Kobe in their primes.

And I eat crickets.


PS. Also not EVERYONE took West's comments seriously, because I don't even like basketball, I'm a horse racing fan and there are no forums for that. And everyone is a very inclusive word. You're crazy!!

[DonDadda59]

Can't make a real argument against Kobe being the most talented Laker, but 'most skilled' and 'best' are most definitely not synonymous. If that were the case Lamar Odom is the second best SF in the league...

[Mrofir]

Can't make a real argument against Kobe being the most talented Laker, but 'most skilled' and 'best' are most definitely not synonymous. If that were the case Lamar Odom is the second best SF in the league...


You can if you consider being a super human giant dude part of talent, or personality that brings teammates together part of talent, or any of the other things that separate Kobe from his Laker contemporaries. But I see where you're coming from

[andgar923]

When Jerry West says Lebron is the best all around 'perimeter' player in the game today(I agree) everyone touted West's genius ,but now that he says Kobe can be the best all time & agrees with Steve Smith about Kobe's skills he is dismissed.:oldlol:

Players who have gotten dismissed this past week or so on the ISH speaking highly of Kobe:
Rick Barry,Steve Smith, Alonzo Mourning,MJ & now Jerry West:confusedshrug:


He was speaking all time & not just the Lakers & if he was limiting his discussion to the Lakers he would have never referred to MJ & several other non Lakers in the interview. West is speaking all time overall ,but I know he will be dismissed because he traded for Kobe & wants to make himself look better as a GM:oldlol:

Obviously Jerry West(who admitted Kobe passed him years ago) has an agenda:rolleyes:

"Hello, my name is Hate".

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/090608&sportCat-nba

Uh....nope.

You actually have the answer yourself.

He took back that Bron>>>Kobe comment.

He's defended Kobe for his entire career no matter what.

He has a special relation to Kobe, always has.

I'm not questioning his evaluation skills, I'm simply stating that his allegiances might be slightly biased.

[Brunch@Five]

I know, but what avvie would you want me to have? I lost the first 2 you sent me, and the Cavs are out now.

it's alright

[Brickz187]

Most skilled Laker is debatable depending on what you consider most skilled, but I agree Kobe is the best Laker and most skilled Laker ever.

[mongePR(kb24)]

At times he plays beautifully.

Footwork is crisp, his movement is slick, his vision is sharp, his moves are defined.

But just as he has moments like those, there's moments where its the complete opposite as equally.

And like you mentioned, its like he has brain farts or something. But even then, his mechanics seem off.

His footwork isn't the same, his moves aren't the same, his shot looks like he's just throwing it up etc.etc.

And its been like that his ENTIRE career.

Yes I know it sounds like I'm 'hatin' but its the truth.

I've mentioned it time and time again, he's like two Kobes:

http://www.bryanshulkpage.com/Images/s10001.jpg

And the same translates on the defensive end as well.

He'd make a great defensive play or play great ball denial, but then get sh!tted on by scrubs.

hhah, exactly the way it is. I loved the brain farts comment. If he didnt have those brain farts, he could have the case to be at least compared to jordan in every aspect.

[indiefan23]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=westtake-090613



I don't care much for opinions of former players but this isn't just another meaningless opinon from a Charles Barkley or a Magic Johnson. West's opinion means more than that of any other player because he is the Logo and he doesn't give opinions too often. But when he does, everyone listens because he knows what he's talking about. BTW, he makes a great argument for WHY Kobe deserves the finals MVP.

Do y'all think Kobe is the #1 Laker in terms of skills? This is a huge compliment since it comes from one of the greatest players ever to put on a Laker jersey.

As for the haters (talking to you bruceblitz), do listen to West's words carefully.

Yea, cuz west is in a totally unbias position with no conflict of interest in regard to Kobe, right? I like Jerry lots too, but he's the guy who choose him.

1. passing and court vision is a skill

2. Maigc >>>>> Kobe at passing

3. Kobe > Magic scoring? Is it even that way? I'm not convinced

[NBASTATMAN]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=westtake-090613



I don't care much for opinions of former players but this isn't just another meaningless opinon from a Charles Barkley or a Magic Johnson. West's opinion means more than that of any other player because he is the Logo and he doesn't give opinions too often. But when he does, everyone listens because he knows what he's talking about. BTW, he makes a great argument for WHY Kobe deserves the finals MVP.

Do y'all think Kobe is the #1 Laker in terms of skills? This is a huge compliment since it comes from one of the greatest players ever to put on a Laker jersey.

As for the haters (talking to you bruceblitz), do listen to West's words carefully.


Skill wise kobe is the best laker... But it does sound like Jerry West is trying to make up with Kobe after the LEBRON comments... They are true comments though..

[Jacks3]

No surprise there. Kobe is the most skilled and fundamentally sound player ever.

:pimp:

[creepingdeath]

No surprise there. Kobe is the most skilled and fundamentally sound player ever.

:pimp:
http://i.imgur.com/FWMwR.gif

[sh0wtime]

Isnt this the same Jerry West that said Lebron James has surpassed Kobe Bryant and that Oscar Robertson was the most skilled player he has ever seen? :)

[Rnbizzle]

Are there any posters who are gonna argue MJ was more skilled then Kobe? He was more athletic, and bigger, but Kobe has better footwork and is a better shooter.

[sh0wtime]

Are there any posters who are gonna argue MJ was more skilled then Kobe? He was more athletic, and bigger, but Kobe has better footwork and is a better shooter.

I think Kobe is evidently one of the most skilled players of all time, but not even close to be a runaway most skilled player ever as Jerry West would imply. Jerry West is just a human being with his own opinions, a man who has changed his point of view back and forth, a man who seemingly loves to give compliments with these type of remarks. Just like Scottie Pippen who said that Lebron is the greatest player of all time, take these remarks with a grain of salt.

There is not much to argue, Michael Jordan was more skilled, i think no matter how Kobe biased you are you deep down inside know Michael Jordan was more skilled. Personally i think quite a few more were more skilled than Kobe, for example Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird, but then again thats only my opinion.

[Calabis]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=westtake-090613



I don't care much for opinions of former players but this isn't just another meaningless opinon from a Charles Barkley or a Magic Johnson. West's opinion means more than that of any other player because he is the Logo and he doesn't give opinions too often. But when he does, everyone listens because he knows what he's talking about. BTW, he makes a great argument for WHY Kobe deserves the finals MVP.

Do y'all think Kobe is the #1 Laker in terms of skills? This is a huge compliment since it comes from one of the greatest players ever to put on a Laker jersey.

As for the haters (talking to you bruceblitz), do listen to West's words carefully.

So this man's word is gold according to you.....yet you still think Kobe is better than Lebron....oh wait whats that Mr. West:

I look at Cleveland [and] say to myself, 'How many games could they win without LeBron James?' " West said. "That's how great he is. He has a chance to be arguably the greatest player ever to play the game. ... Michael Jordan was the best defensive player in the league, but he was also the best offensive player. It wasn't a one-year fluke; he proved it over time. LeBron James will do the same type of things because he's getting better. He's a much more effective shooter. When he's making his shots from the outside, you can't play him. He's just too big, too strong, too quick. And he has incredible body control. But more than that, he's a great teammate. You can see his teammates love him."

And then, the money quote.

"If I had to have somebody make a last-second shot, it would be Kobe Bryant," West said. "But even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player."


I think a guy who has coached both players and seen them in practice, play through pain and just about everything else......Phil Jackson telling it like it is

“Kobe has patterned himself after Michael, and there are a lot of identical things there, but it’s one thing to hope to be like him, it’s another thing to be like him….

“I’m with [ESPN's] Bill Simmons on this,” he says. “We have to take Michael Jordan out of the equation. Stop comparing anyone to Michael Jordan. It’s just not fair. He was remarkable. Kobe’s in his own sphere.

“He doesn’t shoot the same percentage [.455] as Michael [.497]. He has the same characteristics as Michael, but he’s not the same player. It takes nothing away from him — he’s a great player in his own right.”

[Rnbizzle]

I think Kobe is evidently one of the most skilled players of all time, but not even close to be a runaway most skilled player ever as Jerry West would imply. Jerry West is just a human being with his own opinions, a man who has changed his point of view back and forth, a man who seemingly loves to give compliments with these type of remarks. Just like Scottie Pippen who said that Lebron is the greatest player of all time, take these remarks with a grain of salt.

There is not much to argue, Michael Jordan was more skilled, i think no matter how Kobe biased you are you deep down inside know Michael Jordan was more skilled. Personally i think quite a few more were more skilled than Kobe, for example Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird, but then again thats only my opinion.
MJ was better, not more skilled. He used his athleticism and strength to be a better player then Kobe is/ever was.

[AlphaWolf24]

MJ was better, not more skilled. He used his athleticism and strength to be a better player then Kobe is/ever was.


Actually......


Like Phil Jackson has said many times....

Kobe Bryant is a better skilled / allaround player then Jordan,

but.....Jordan did posses a stronger upper body with larger hands providing better ability to finish in traffic I guess....



look people we are splitting hairs here....but anyone who actually watches the games and watched Jordan's career .. can see..

Kobe is the better player skillwise and the more asthetically pleasing player to watch.

[tontoz]

Given that West is the one who traded for Kobe i think he might be just a little biased.

[pegasus]

I'd say Jordan was more talented (not very close), but Kobe is more skilled (somewhat close).

I'm sure Kobe has been working his ass of this off-season, and god knows what he's adding to his arsenal at the age of 33. I know Jordan was a gym rat, too, but to me, it was more his talents than his skills that made him the GOAT.

Lebron is the true definition of talent, and not working hard enough to acquire skills. He does not possess any skills that he did not have coming into the league. Yes, maybe his shooting has gotten a little better, but it still disappears when it matters the most, and his ft % is still horrible for a superstar.

[sh0wtime]

MJ was better, not more skilled. He used his athleticism and strength to be a better player then Kobe is/ever was.

Jordan beyond any doubt was athletic, but so was Kobe if you can summon into mind? Any skill, move you see in Kobe's arsenal today originates to Michael Jordan, all that was the foundation of Michael Jordan and as the case may be also his innovation.
Hence why i believe that honor should go to the architect which is Michael Jordan.

[PTB Fan]

This is on pure skills right? Give me Larry Bird. Dude averaged a triple double in the 86 Finals based on his superb skill set.

[AlphaWolf24]

Jordan beyond any doubt was athletic, but so was Kobe if you can summon into mind? Any skill, move you see in Kobe's arsenal today originates to Michael Jordan, all that was the foundation of Michael Jordan and as the case may be also his innovation.
Hence why i believe that honor should go to the architect which is Michael Jordan.


I guess you never watched Dr.J , David Thompson and even the person who was before both of em' ...Elgin Baylor.

Jordan derived much of his game and even off the court persona from Dr.J

[gengiskhan]

Kobe is VERY overrated...The reason why he is hated on soo much cause the amount of Unneccasary love he recieves in the media is sickening. I guess they feel like Riding the Kobe train out a little longer especially with another championship coming but another year or two will be all aboard the LBJ Hype Express for the next 6 or 7 years at least.

this

well said.

If kobe is the most skilled player ever. How he hasnt ave 8 rebs & 8 assists in single season from SG position despite playing with most dominant center of his era.

Kobe is great. he is skilled. He IS NOT SUPER SKILLED like Bird, Magic & MJ

West knows this better than anyone else.

Bird, Magic, MJ were the most insanely gifted super skilled NBA players to ever step on the court.

Part of the reason why whoever played with those 3 had best years of their careers stat wise.

same thing cannot be said about kobe. His skill dont help none of his team mates.

Hell. His skills dont even reflects his own stats to be frank.

West should show more respect to Magic & Bird & Big O.

All 3 more skilled than Kobe ever was,is, will be.

[gengiskhan]

Players clearly having better skills set than Kobe (no particular order):

1. Big O

2. Michael Jordan

3. Magic Johnson

4. Larry Bird

[Ruutu]

Just want to ask u guys...What are skills ? What are we measuring ?

[Kyle_korver]

West said lebron is the best player in the league tho

[LBJ 23]

Just want to ask u guys...What are skills ? What are we measuring ?



Different ways of scoring I guess, judging by this thread.

[DirtySanchez]

Kobe has Ninja Skills....Bo Staff Skills...you know skills GOSH!

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2010/05/nd.jpg

[gengiskhan]

Different ways of scoring I guess, judging by this thread.

You mean like from the outside. Bird & tons of others take a shyte on Kobe

You mean mid-range. Jordan & bird take shyte on kobe

You mean inside. Jordan again takes shyte on kobe

you mean transition. Jordan again takes a dump on kobe

you mean off the ball. Miller & Jordan again pissss all over kobe

How is kobe most skilled player of all time.

Its very clear.

Kobe is EXTREMELY OVERRATED! West will sell his soul to sell Laker tickets & hype up Kobe.

[Jacks3]

No surprise there. Kobe is the most skilled and fundamentally sound player ever.

:pimp:
MJ ain't even top 5. He was just lucky to be blessed with great athleticism.

[RRR3]

Let's be real people, the most skilled player of all time was Tracy McGrady. :D :banana:

[KingBeasley08]

MJ ain't even top 5. He was just lucky to be blessed with great athleticism.
even if thats true
great athleticism + great skills >>>>> decent athleticism + greatest skills

just the truth

[The-Legend-24]

:applause: West should have also said, and it ain't even close.

[G-Funk]

Let's be real people, the most skilled player of all time was Tracy McGrady. :D :banana:


not as good in the post. besides defensively that nigguh was trash

[Jacks3]

even if thats true
great athleticism + great skills >>>>> decent athleticism + greatest skills

just the truth
He didn't have great skills, just absurd athleticism. He'd be a scrub without that.

[JordanTime]

Jerry West was always jealous of how better Michael Jordan was to him.

[RRR3]

not as good in the post. besides defensively that nigguh was trash
Bullshit. T-Mac could play very good defense when he felt like it, which was more often than many give him credit for.

[RRR3]

He didn't have great skills, just absurd athleticism. He'd be a scrub without that.
Which is why Jordan became terrible after he lost his athleticism and didn't win three more rings and FMVP's or be the best player on a 72-10 team or anything right?

[JordanTime]

He didn't have great skills, just absurd athleticism. He'd be a scrub without that.

this post is a joke. Seems like these Kobe fan boys will say anything for attention.

A healthy Michael Jordan as a Wizard, was as good as Kobe Bryant from 08-11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMU8fSwu5yo

[gengiskhan]

Jerry West was always jealous of how better Michael Jordan was to him.

West was always of jealous of Big O too.

West never possessed Big O's athleticism.

MJ always gave credit to Big O during his playing days.

In 1998 interview, MJ said he always wondered how he'd do against Big O in his prime. He didnt even mentioned west.

West hate for MJ is showing in this kobe comment too.

I see it this way. "one laker sucking another laker's c0ck. After all its LA. Hollywood territory. what else do you expect"

[KingBeasley08]

Which is why Jordan became terrible after he lost his athleticism and didn't win three more rings and FMVP's or be the best player on a 72-10 team or anything right?
:oldlol: :oldlol:

Jacks3 is nowhere to be seen :roll:

[Jacks3]

Which is why Jordan became terrible after he lost his athleticism and didn't win three more rings and FMVP's or be the best player on a 72-10 team or anything right?
Actually, he was a incredible athlete even then, it wasn't the skills. His true loss of athleticism came in 2001 and 2002 and that's when he became the most inefficient volume scorer in history. Like I said, he was just lucky.

[Asukal]

I'd have to agree, Kobe is most probably the most skilled LAKER of all time. Dude can do it all on both sides of the court. :cheers:

[Jacks3]

Yes, he's the most skilled player in NBA History.

[Asukal]

Yes, he's the most skilled player in NBA History.

^:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

What a homo.

[Cali Syndicate]

Actually, he was a incredible athlete even then, it wasn't the skills. His true loss of athleticism came in 2001 and 2002 and that's when he became the most inefficient volume scorer in history. Like I said, he was just lucky.

Jordan shot 44.5% in his last season at 39/40 years of age. That's practically the same efficiency Kobe scored in 06 in his prime. 44.5% is right around what most today's star guards score at. Only difference is Jordan at 39/40 years old isn't getting to the line 8-10 per game.

Iverson, Arenas and plenty more "modern guards" even in their primes have been more of an inefficient volume scorer than old man Jordan.

[Jacks3]

Yup. Most skilled and fundamentally sound player ever.

[Jacks3]

Jordan shot 44.5% in his last season at 39/40 years of age. That's practically the same efficiency Kobe scored in 06 in his prime. 44.5% is right around what most today's star guards score at. Only difference is Jordan at 39/40 years old isn't getting to the line 8-10 per game.

Iverson, Arenas and plenty more "modern guards" even in their primes have been more of an inefficient volume scorer than old man Jordan.
His TS% was the worst of any 20+ PPG scorer in history at 49%. That's just...horrible. Kobe in 2006 was FAR,FAR more effieint and so was Arenas.

:facepalm

[SuperPippen]

Yup. Most skilled and fundamentally sound player ever.

Nope.

Incredibly skilled? Yes. The most skilled ever? Nope, nope, nope.

[Kiarip]

Jordan was incredibly ****ing skilled.

If you want to talk about unskilled guard scorers that rely on athleticism we can talk about:

Clyde Drexler
Lebron James (to a large extent)
Vince Carter

etc etc.

Jordan and Kobe are by far and away the most skilled perimeter players.

[Jacks3]

Yep.

The most skilled player ever. Only Bird really compares.

[Cali Syndicate]

You mean like from the outside. Bird & tons of others take a shyte on Kobe

You mean mid-range. Jordan & bird take shyte on kobe

You mean inside. Jordan again takes shyte on kobe

you mean transition. Jordan again takes a dump on kobe

you mean off the ball. Miller & Jordan again pissss all over kobe

How is kobe most skilled player of all time.

Its very clear.

Kobe is EXTREMELY OVERRATED! West will sell his soul to sell Laker tickets & hype up Kobe.

When talking about the complete package in one player, it's not even disputable that Kobe is one of the most skilled basketball players in the game. It's been the way he plays by settling for ill advised shots time after time that makes him who he is. Still one of the most all around skilled players. Jordan, Bird, Hakeem are others that come to mind. Skill wise, Kobe's on the same level.

[SuperPippen]

Yep.

The most skilled player ever. Only Bird really compares.

You actually trying to convince people of something here, buddy?

'Cus, you know, nobody but other Kobe stans are ever going to agree with you.

Saying something over and over doesn't make true, buddy.

[Jacks3]

I'm not really trying to convince anybody. It's not like I'm saying something cray here. Kobe has a very legit argument. Deal with it, "buddy".

[Asukal]

You actually trying to convince people of something here, buddy?

'Cus, you know, nobody but other Kobe stans are ever going to agree with you.

Saying something over and over doesn't make true, buddy.

He is a Kobe stan and a Kobe homo. Dont listen to him.

[Jacks3]

Phaggett.

[SuperPippen]

I'm not really trying to convince anybody. It's not like I'm saying something cray here. Kobe has a very legit argument. Deal with it, "buddy".

lol, OK, friend. Just making sure you understand how ridiculous you sound.

[Legends66NBA7]

When talking about the complete package in one player, it's not even disputable that Kobe is one of the most skilled basketball players in the game. It's been the way he plays by settling for ill advised shots time after time that makes him who he is. Still one of the most all around skilled players. Jordan, Bird, Hakeem are others that come to mind. Skill wise, Kobe's on the same level.

Could you do me a favor ? Can you explain skill wise and/or skill set to me ? I want to know from you what they mean. I've heard different terms for them, that's all. But not a full detailed one.

[Jacks3]

Not ridiculous at all. Kobe is the most skilled player ever, "buddy".

[Legends66NBA7]

You actually trying to convince people of something here, buddy?

'Cus, you know, nobody but other Kobe stans are ever going to agree with you.

Saying something over and over doesn't make true, buddy.

Sups, could you explain to me what skill wise and/or skill set means ?

[SuperPippen]

Not ridiculous at all. Kobe is the most skilled player ever, "buddy".

:lol

I can tell that this is really important to you. Your entire existence probably hinges on you believing that that's actually true, so I'm gonna do you a favor, and not try to argue.

[Jacks3]

I don't really understand why you're acting like I'm saying something totally ridiculous here. I mean, I've heard plenty of people call Bryant the most skilled ever along with guys like Bird/Nash/Hakeem etc, but whatever. Like I give a shit what you think. :oldlol:

[Borat]

Kobe is probably a top 5-6 most skilled player ever.

Not sure how differientiate who is number 1, but IMO its Larry.

After that is Michael. He could do everything Kobe does, but he had more creativity with his finshing and control in the air. Kobe doesnt lack in that area, he simply wasnt as good as MJ at that part of BBALL.

Vince Carter is up there, Clyde is up there. Nique, the Doctor.
Allen Iverson.

Kobe sits a bit above those dudes by a little.

[Cali Syndicate]

Could you do me a favor ? Can you explain skill wise and/or skill set to me ? I want to know from you what they mean. I've heard different terms for them, that's all. But not a full detailed one.

Short answer...skills are measured by how well a player has mastered the fundamentals and techniques for the different facets of the game.

[Cali Syndicate]

His TS% was the worst of any 20+ PPG scorer in history at 49%. That's just...horrible. Kobe in 2006 was FAR,FAR more effieint and so was Arenas.

:facepalm

TS% takes into account the extra point from free throws and three's. Jordan hardly took any threes his final year and took just 4 FTA per game. At 82%, just doubling his FTA makes his TS% look A LOT better. Jordan as a Wizard wasn't getting to the line as often for obvious reasons so his TS% suffered. Not really a big deal cause 44.5% is still 44.5%.

And worst ever? Really? Iverson has done worse than 49% and has shot 49-50% a number a number of times and in his prime so......

[AlphaWolf24]

TS% takes into account the extra point from free throws and three's. Jordan hardly took any threes his final year and took just 4 FTA per game. At 82%, just doubling his FTA makes his TS% look A LOT better. Jordan as a Wizard wasn't getting to the line as often for obvious reasons so his TS% suffered. Not really a big deal cause 44.5% is still 44.5%.

And worst ever? Really? Iverson has done worse than 49% and has shot 49-50% a number a number of times and in his prime so......


yeah....he wasn't playing in the watered down 90's against grocery baggers and CBA players..

[RRR3]

Tracy McGrady at his best had way more skills than Kobe could ever dream of. Fact. :pimp:

[okayabc123]

Tracy McGrady at his best had way more skills than Kobe could ever dream of. Fact. :pimp:

I don't even think TMac agrees with you. :facepalm

[Kiarip]

Tracy McGrady at his best had way more skills than Kobe could ever dream of. Fact. :pimp:

you DO realize that skills don't deteriate with age if you keep practicing right?

He had longer, slightly more athleticism and slightly bigger hands, his skill at finishing at the rim and handles were probably similar to Kobe's, but Kobe had better footwork, better body control, better techniques for creating his shot.

[RRR3]

I don't even think TMac agrees with you. :facepalm
:facepalm Freaking Kobe stans. SO annoying,

[Cali Syndicate]

yeah....he wasn't playing in the watered down 90's against grocery baggers and CBA players..

Don't some people regard the period between 99-04 one of the best for defense in history? Because I recall Jordan putting some pretty big games in 02 and 03? It's not like he was shot jacking to get those points either.

In 02 when he scored 30 or more his TS% was 55.7% and in 03 was 62.8% so if that's what matters, then there it is.

But through the entire season, it's obvious his BODY was the reason why he couldn't bring it night in night out, OBVIOUSLY.

Kobe in 02 when scoring 30 or more his TS% was 61.3% and in 03 was 63.8%. Jordan's final season was right on par with both those seasons despite getting less FTA.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe is probably a top 5-6 most skilled player ever.

Not sure how differientiate who is number 1, but IMO its Larry.

After that is Michael. He could do everything Kobe does, but he had more creativity with his finshing and control in the air. Kobe doesnt lack in that area, he simply wasnt as good as MJ at that part of BBALL.

Vince Carter is up there, Clyde is up there. Nique, the Doctor.
Allen Iverson.

Kobe sits a bit above those dudes by a little.

I'll buy that.

Kobe is no way better than

Bird
MJ
Magic
Big O

skills wise overall.

if he was, his stats would've clearly reflected that.

[Jacks3]

TS% takes into account the extra point from free throws and three's. Jordan hardly took any threes his final year and took just 4 FTA per game. At 82%, just doubling his FTA makes his TS% look A LOT better. Jordan as a Wizard wasn't getting to the line as often for obvious reasons so his TS% suffered. Not really a big deal cause 44.5% is still 44.5%.

And worst ever? Really? Iverson has done worse than 49% and has shot 49-50% a number a number of times and in his prime so......
Um, what's your point? He wasn't getting to the line and he wasn't hitting threes and that's why his efficiency was so terrible. What he "could" have done doesn't matter. The fact is, he was the most inefficient scorer ever.

[Jacks3]

Jordan's final season was right on par with both those seasons despite getting less FTA.
lol @ your cherry-picking. No, his seasons were not on par.

30 PPG/55% TS>>>>>>>>>>>22 PPG/59-50% TS.

[RRR3]

Um, what's your point? He wasn't getting to the line and he wasn't hitting threes and that's why his efficiency was so terrible. What he "could" have done doesn't matter. The fact is, he was the most inefficient scorer ever.
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/225dae39d3bfce93ed069a6992aabcb0.jpg

[Rooster]

Larry Bird is the most skilled player ever offensively. He does not possess those athleticism that most NBA players are born with but because of skills he still became one of the greatest ever. Just look at his rebounding, Bird could barely jumped over a piece but he still did a good job on the boards.

[gengiskhan]

Larry Bird is the most skilled player ever offensively. He does not possess those athleticism that most NBA players are born with but because of skills he still became one of the greatest ever. Just look at his rebounding, Bird could barely jumped over a piece but he still did a good job on the boards.

This

Bird showed the world, athleticism is overrated if you are not participating in dunk contest every game. You need killer intelligence & huge heart. Bird had both. The way Bird positioned himself on the court was scary. From that height & wingspan, he could get any rebound & steal.

Bird will rape kobe skills wise. All kobe got over bird is much better athleticism & defense. thats about it.

everything else Bird OWNS kobe easily.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Gengiskahn, who do you think is most skilled? Bird, MJ or Magic?

[Rooster]

Gengiskahn, who do you think is most skilled? Bird, MJ or Magic?

Well I want to answer this. All of then are skilled but if you take away the running and jumping, Magic and Bird are too close to call. Magic is the best passer, Bird is the best shooter and Magic got the best handle and Bird is the best rebounder.

[gengiskhan]

Gengiskahn, who do you think is most skilled? Bird, MJ or Magic?

Bird maybe. Its hard to decide.

Bird could make even a 12th man on his team a threat.

Jordan was defensively more skilled than Bird & Magic

Jordan was offensively more skilled magic.

Id say Bird=jordan > Magic skills wise overall.

But I've seen Bird turn & run the other way as soon as he shot the ball knowing its string music in big POs game. Never seen MJ do that.

[Cali Syndicate]

Um, what's your point? He wasn't getting to the line and he wasn't hitting threes and that's why his efficiency was so terrible. What he "could" have done doesn't matter. The fact is, he was the most inefficient scorer ever.

My point is that Jordan wasn't a inefficient volume shooter in his last seasons just because of his TS%. FT's matter when determining TS%, context is basically what I'm getting at here.

And your fact about TS% is that Iverson shot under 49% twice while averaging over 20ppg and shot 49/50% a few other times. Jordan most inefficient ever? Facts don't say that at all.

[Cali Syndicate]

lol @ your cherry-picking. No, his seasons were not on par.

30 PPG/55% TS>>>>>>>>>>>22 PPG/59-50% TS.

Well to be fair, when comparing stats between Jordan and Kobe, practically everything looks like cherry picking then.

http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/kobevsjordan.htm

So I guess I understand why cherry picking his last final seasons as a old man to prove his inefficiency is so important to you.

Cheers

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Kobe is clearly the most skilled Laker ever. I think he is the most skilled player in NBA history. There's nothing he can't do on the basketball court. Jordan is still better, but he's not more skilled in my opinion. Magic is still the greatest Laker to me but Kobe is close to him.

[Miserio]

Hakeem Olajuwon > Kobe in terms of skill.

[G-Funk]

Larry Bird is the most skilled player ever offensively. He does not possess those athleticism that most NBA players are born with but because of skills he still became one of the greatest ever. Just look at his rebounding, Bird could barely jumped over a piece but he still did a good job on the boards.

lol Bird could not play off the dribble and create his shots like Kobe or Jordan did

[-Original-]

:applause: There is nothing Kobe can't do, he has it all. :bowdown: Once in a lifetime player, the NBA won't be the same when he retires. :cry:

[Asukal]

Kobe is clearly the most skilled Laker ever. I think he is the most skilled player in NBA history. There's nothing he can't do on the basketball court. Jordan is still better, but he's not more skilled in my opinion. Magic is still the greatest Laker to me but Kobe is close to him.

True. Jordan never managed to get swept in the playoffs when he had a contending team. Kobe is waaaaay more skilled. :pimp:

[chips93]

in terms of one-on-one scoring, i cant think of anybody better

[RRR3]

in terms of one-on-one scoring, i cant think of anybody better
T-Mac.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe is clearly the most skilled Laker ever. I think he is the most skilled player in NBA history. There's nothing he can't do on the basketball court. Jordan is still better, but he's not more skilled in my opinion. Magic is still the greatest Laker to me but Kobe is close to him.

Kobe cannot play off his teamates.

Kobe's teamates complain about his skills when he shot jocks & ball hogs.

Kobe has poor shot selection.

Kobe cannot play off the ball.

Kobe's decision making is average.

Kobe cannot rebound and assist as good as more skilled jordan, bird

Kobe cannot play 3 positions like more skilled Pippen, Jordan can.

Kobe cannot play 4 positions (except center) like more skilled Rodman can.

How is kobe more skilled?

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Kobe cannot play off his teamates.

Kobe's teamates complain about his skills when he shot jocks & ball hogs.

Kobe has poor shot selection.

Kobe cannot play off the ball.

Kobe's decision making is average.

Kobe cannot rebound and assist as good as more skilled jordan, bird

Kobe cannot play 3 positions like more skilled Pippen, Jordan can.

Kobe cannot play 4 positions (except center) like more skilled Rodman can.

How is kobe more skilled?

Do you know the definition of the word skilled?

[JordanTime]

Kobe fans are hilarious.

[Rooster]

lol Bird could not play off the dribble and create his shots like Kobe or Jordan did

True because he does not possess the athleticism that both of those guys are born with. Skills are learned but you can not teach athleticism. Just imagine if Bird has their athleticism, it will be unfair.

[gengiskhan]

Do you know the definition of the word skilled?

its definitely not shot jocking ball hogging towards 35.4 ppg at the expense of teamates, team chemistry & wins.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe fans are hilarious.

& full retards.

They just dont get if a player hasn't attended NCAA atleast 1 year, he has not learned jack shit.

Kobe'tards think kobe is "born" with godly skills.

[chips93]

T-Mac.

t-mac never had the foot work of prime kobe, he could never make the tough shots kobe makes. he could make some crazy shots, but that was because he could create room with his quickness, and peak-skilled kobe doesnt have that quickness

[Jacks3]

My point is that Jordan wasn't a inefficient volume shooter in his last seasons just because of his TS%. FT's matter when determining TS%, context is basically what I'm getting at here.


Yeah, and the "why" doesn't really matter. He wasn't getting to the line and he wasn't hitting threes. Period. He was the most inefficient 20+ PPG scorer in history. It's a fact.

[Jacks3]

Well to be fair, when comparing stats between Jordan and Kobe, practically everything looks like cherry picking then.

[
Typical Jordan stan. Get destroyed and feel the need to bring up something totally irrelevant. :oldlol:

[Cali Syndicate]

Yeah, and the "why" doesn't really matter. He wasn't getting to the line and he wasn't hitting threes. Period. He was the most inefficient 20+ PPG scorer in history. It's a fact.

And there's a reason why he's wasn't getting to the line. Why are you so dense about this? Kobe played like a shot jacking scrub in the 04 finals. Would you say his on going court issues may have had anything to do with that? Cause I would. Basketball is more than a black and white discussion.

And Antoine Walker's TS% in 03 was 46.7%. :D

[Cali Syndicate]

Typical Jordan stan. Get destroyed and feel the need to bring up something totally irrelevant. :oldlol:

I wasn't trying to change the subject. I provided that website's list to show you if I'm cherry picking, then that entire website is cherry picking. And It isn't like using 30 point games isn't a fair criteria. It applies to both players no? It wasn't like I chose Jordan's best games and compared them to Kobe's mediocre ones. Plus if Jordan was inefficiently shot jacking, his high scoring games would show that he was but in 03 his TS% was 62.8% and Kobe's was 63.8.

[pauk]

sure....

im all for it if all u kobetards respect Jerry Wests other opinion to:

"Lebron has surpassed Kobe Bryant"

:lol

[Jacks3]

And there's a reason why he's wasn't getting to the line. Why are you so dense about this?
Why are you so dense about this is? I already told that why doesn't really matter. He wasn't getting to the line and he wasn't hitting threes. End of story.

Most ineffieint volume scorer ever.

[nevetslc88]

Kobe Bryant - Greatest Moments From 2000 - 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU91J6v19KE&hd=1

Kobe Bryant - Greatness HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZyyejtInYU&hd=1