My Top 10 Players in the NBA

[RocketGreatness]

1. Kobe Bryant.
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090615/capt.b1efe69c966c457785e0cc469dc88e6a.aptopix_nba_ finals_lakers_magic_basketball_doa172.jpg
-Hate him or love him, He's the best player in the world still. Eventually King James and D. Wade will surpass him, but right now It's Kobe is the king of the league until further notice. You may have been impressed with LeBron being the league MVP, but Kobe earned his 4th championship ring and was named the Finals MVP this year. He led that Laker team to the top of the mountain, there are no excuses. He's one of the best man to man defenders in the game, and also one of the most underrated passers today as well. He is the best scorer and most polished scorer in the league, no player can stop him, he can only miss shots.

2. LeBron James
http://bettorsedge.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lebron-james6.jpg
-Can easily be argued as the best player in the world, but is 2nd in my list. Was the league's MVP, and led the Cavs to the best record in the NBA. He did all he could in the 2009 Playoffs to get that team to the Finals, but he was the only player that showed up. Mo Williams shrunk in the spotlight, Big Z shrunk and so did Delonte West. Sadly, he is playing with a bunch of tomato cans. Once he develops some more polish in his scoring game, he will be the best player in the world by a country mile but he will also need some hardware to make a name for himself for the all-time. He is easily the most underrated passer in the league, a bit overrated defensively but is amazing in reading the passing lanes and chasing down fast breaks. It takes a complete team defense to shut LeBron James down. His jump shot is improving, but it's not in Kobe's level yet.

3. Dwyane Wade
http://blog.newsok.com/gossip/files/2009/01/dwyane-wade.jpg
-Pretty much isolated at that 3rd spot. Had the worst playoff run between LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, but had a hell of a regular season. There would be no doubt in anyone's mind that if the MVP voting was the way it was in the 80s or 90s he would have been the MVP. He single handily led that Heat team to the 5th seed to the playoffs. Although, some of his teammates like Mario Chalmers deserve some credit, there's no doubt the majority of it goes to Dwyane Wade. He dominated the stat sheet and had dominant games where he led them to victories. No doubt the 3rd best player in the world.

4. Chris Paul
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/03/chris_paul_2.jpg
-Was the most overlooked candidate for the MVP of the 08-09 season. Had also finished 2nd place in the 07-08 MVP voting and had a strong argument for the MVP. He has arguably the best stats in the NBA, He led that Pathetic Hornets team to the playoffs by himself. That alone should be considered an accomplishment by the way. He's the best point guard in the NBA with Deron Williams right behind him, but Chris Paul is the 4th best player in the NBA HANDS DOWN.

5. Tim Duncan
http://www.nba.com/media/act_tim_duncan.jpg
-The Greatest power forward of all-time is still a Top 5 player in the game today. When healthy that is. He had been injured frequently and was not a 100% after the all-star break. However in the beginning of the season he was a valuable candidate for the MVP was averaging 20/10/2. Injuries started nagging him later on and Tony Parker started emerging due to Tim Duncan's unselfish play. He's still the best big man in the game and is the 5th best player in basketball.

6. Yao Ming
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/fantasy/03/05/fantasy.lab/t1_yao_si.jpg
-He's the best center in the league hands down when healthy. Which would be his biggest problem, staying on the floor. However, we cannot deny anything he does when he is on there. People don't realize that he did stay healthy all of regular season, he got hurt at probably the worst time possible. Luckily he'll have his 1st legit off-season of his NBA career now. But all said and done, Yao was an overlooked candidate just like Chris Paul was this year. Yao may not have dominated the stat sheet like he did, but he certainly led that Rocket team to loads of wins. He got past the 1st round this year without the so-called star Tracy McGrady in 12 years for this Rocket franchise. Yao is the best offensive center in the game by a Country mile, He has all the moves, vastly underrated defensively and rebounding wise, and There is no way any player can guard Yao from playing behind him, you can only front him. He's the 6th best player in the NBA and the 2nd best big man in the game behind Tim Duncan.

7. Dwight Howard
http://ngepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dwight-howard.jpg
-The 2nd best center in basketball Dwight "Superman" Howard. He's the hands down best rebounder and shot blocker in the game. However offensively? Still needs lots of work. We all know he is superman on the defensive side and is the best defensive center in the game, but the offensive side, he's almost your average joe. There's no question he can easily be the best center to ever play the game once he develops a serious offensive game, but that is the question today. Will he ever be that good on offense? I cannot answer that because I am not a fortune teller, but I can tell you is that he's an elite superstar player in the NBA today and has loads of potential at the age of 23. It will only be time when people are saying who's going to be the next Dwight instead of the next Shaq.



8. Kevin Garnett
http://www.as.com/recorte/20080125dasdasbal_1/C280/Ies/Kevin_Garnett.jpg

-One of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game and one of the most unselfish stars today Kevin Garnett ranked at 8th place. He is the anchor of the best defensive team in the NBA, without him they are just slightly above average on that end. He does not dominant the stat sheet anymore like he did in Minnesota. However, he does dominant the most important stat called the wins now. Kevin Garnett's greatness has always been his unselfishness and defensive intensity. He brings that today, although he was injured all playoffs long there is no doubt in my mind next season the Celtics will give every single team in the East their run for their money in the playoffs.


9. Dirk Nowitzki
http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A8925/89251/300_89251.jpg
-The 2006-2007 NBA MVP Dirk Nowitzki is the 9th best player in the NBA. He is the best scoring big man in the league by a complete mile and he is the best offensive big man in the game and he is offensively versatility is incredible. He is easily the most underrated player of this decade. People have forgotten just a few years ago he led the Mavericks to the Finals with no all-stars. He has declined a bit since then, however the biggest problem with his game is that he does not impact the game much outside of scoring. There's no denying what he can do scoring wise, but I am looking a bit more. I do not expect him to change his game much in the future, but He is not the scorer he was a few years ago, in terms of efficiency that is.

10. Deron Williams
http://www.totalprosports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/deronwilliams.jpg
-(This is a very tough one, but I gotta go with D-Will.) Arguably the best PG in the NBA right now. Should've been an multiple all-star by now but I feel sorry for D-Will that it hasn't happened yet. He has led the Jazz to the playoffs for a couple of years in a row now. People underrate him due to his lack of stats, but people don't realize that's just how Jerry Sloan's system sometimes works. It's a restricted system, It's not a free flowing system like Chris Paul's Hornets. He is over-looked and was over looked this year because of the Jazz's record and also because Deron Williams himself was also injured a lot during the season along with Carlos Boozer. But I have to give the edge to Deron Williams. He's starting to become one of the leagues most underrated players.

P.S - (The 10th spot was very hard for me to choose but the other guys I was thinking of was Paul Pierce, Brandon Roy, Chauncey Billups and Carmelo Anthony. )

Update: Switch Dirk and KG.

[lakerfreak]

lool just a few disagreements from my part.

I think Dwight should be switched with yao (needless to say you wont agree) and I also would switch Dirk with KG.

Dirk made all NBA first team this year and accomplished more than Kevin Garnett as the number one man.

Other than that its a good list.

[Allstar24]

Good list. Only Dirk is wayyy too low...I'd switch him with Duncan.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Melo should be in the mix imo.

[chitownsfinest]

Duncan has always been one of my fav players but I believe Dirk over took him this season. He was more impactful then Duncan was this season, put up better stats in the season and playoffs, and was more dominant on the offensive end. Disagree with Yao or Dwight but you probably will take offense to that so I won't go into that and I believe Roy should be there over Deron Williams.

[RocketGreatness]

Good list. Only Dirk is wayyy too low...I'd switch him with Duncan.
Would that be all your changes? Or are they anymore? I'd really like to know your opinion on this though.


Duncan has always been one of my fav players but I believe Dirk over took him this season. He was more impactful then Duncan was this season, put up better stats in the season and playoffs, and was more dominant on the offensive end. Disagree with Yao or Dwight but you probably will take offense to that so I won't go into that and I believe Roy should be there over Deron Williams.
Luckily for you I don't give a **** what you think so gtfo

Melo should be in the mix imo.
Well I did say He was an honorable mention in the very bottom. I just wanted to put D-Will at top, I would have no problem with anyone on that 10th spot unless It's like Chris Bosh or Kevin Durant or some guy like that.

[blacknapalm]

good list. i would switch kobe and lebron (it's real close tho). i would also switch KG and dirk at this point. and for #10, i would probably put amare even tho i like deron a lot (still think it's bs he hasn't been to an all-star game)

[lil baller]

okay a couple things i dont like

KG is not in top 10 even when healthy

Duncan should be switch Deron Williams

Dwight should be higher

But personally i think deron is better than paul

kobe
lebron
wade
williams
paul
howard
dirk
duncan
roy
melo


Yao even when healthy isnt a top 10 player

[bruceblitz]

1. Kobe Bryant.
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2009/06/14/bryantx.jpg
-Hate him or love him, He's the best player in the world still. Eventually King James and D. Wade will surpass him, but right now It's Kobe is the king of the league until further notice. )
Man is LeBron underrated on this ISH forum:

When you think about the fact that it took Jordan 11 seasons of playing most the year to finish top 10 in the MVP voting 10 times, and LeBron has already done that 6 times in 6 seasons, he's only 4 years away from matching a mark that Jordan posted over his entire career. I personally think a lot of people underrate LeBron because he's only 24. The type of production and level of greatness LeBron has produced in his first 6 years is the type of production you usually see during a legend's peak. Just imagine if he stays relatively healthy for another 10 years. He's gonna be knocking on Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem and maybe even Jordan's back door to take their spots.

LeBron finished ahead of Mr. Bryant in MVP voting in 2004-2005, 2005-2006, and 2008-2009. So in 3 out of LeBron's first 6 years in the NBA he was able to finish ahead of Kobe in MVP voting, despite Kobe being in his prime, and LeBron still hasn't even turned 25 years old yet. Do you people understand how good he is?

LeBron has been the best player in the NBA since 2004-2005:

04-05:
LeBron 27.2ppg 7.4reb 7.2ast 47%fg 2.2stl .7blk
Kobe 27.6ppg 5.9reb 6.0ast 45%fg 1.3stl .8blk

05-06
LeBron 31.4ppg 7.0reb 6.6ast 48%fg 1.6stl .8blk
Kobe 35.4ppg 5.3reb 4.5ast 45%fg 1.8stl .4blk

06-07
LeBron 27.3ppg 7.0reb 6.6ast 48%fg 1.6stl .8blk
Kobe 31.6ppg 5.7reb 5.4ast 46%fg 1.4stl .5blk

07-08
LeBron 30.0ppg 7.9reb 7.2ast 48%fg 1.8stl 1.1blk
Kobe 28.3ppg 6.3reb 5.4ast 45%fg 1.8stl .5blk

08-09
LeBron 28.4ppg 7.6reb 7.2ast 49%fg 1.7stl 1.1blk
Kobe 26.8ppg 5.2reb 4.9ast 46%fg 1.5stl .5blk

Accumulated stats the last 5 years:
LeBron James 28.9ppg 7.3reb 6.9ast 48%fg 1.8stl .9blk
Kobe Bryant 29.9ppg 5.6reb 5.1ast 45%fg 1.5stl .5blk
Kobe has taken 273 more shots than LeBron James in that timespan.

Just look at how the two performed against the exact same team and exact same defenders:
LeBron vs Orlando 2009 playoffs...38.5ppg 48.7%fg 8.3reb 8ast 1.16blk 1.16stl
Kobe vs Orlando 2009 playoffs..... 32.4ppg 42.9%fg 5.6reb 7.4ast 1.4blk 1.4stl

Playoffs production as a whole:
LeBron 2009: 35.3ppg 51%fg 9reb 7ast
Kobe 2009: 30.2ppg 45.7%fg 5.5reb 5.3ast

This is so lopsided you would be a nutcase to think Kobe's better!


Ah just for good measure:
Led the Cavaliers to a franchise-high 66 victories and the top record in the NBA.

Led the Cavaliers to the Central Division title for the second time in franchise history (1975-76).

The Cavs own the best record against the Western Conference in the NBA (26-4).

From 2007-08 to 2008-09, the Cavs have already improved their win total by 21 games; the 21-game win improvement is the 3rd most ever by a team that has won 45 or more games the previous year.

Helped the Cavs set their longest winning streak with a 13-game win streak from Mar. 7, 2009 - Mar. 31, 2009. Cavs also broke records for longest winning streak at home (23 games; Oct. 30, 2008 - February 3, 2009) and longest winning streak at home to start a season (23 games; Oct. 30, 2008 - February 3, 2009).

In a Sports Illustrated poll of 190 NBA players, LeBron James was voted as the opposing player most players would want to be their teammate (32% of the vote, next closest received 13%).

Became the youngest player in NBA history to score 11,000 points (23 years, 324 days) and 12,000 points (24 years, 35 days) during the season.

Became the youngest player (23 years, 308 days) and fastest (395 games) to reach the following totals: 10,000 points, 2,500 rebounds, 2,500 assists, 700 steals and 300 blocks.

Scored 41 points in three of the Cavs first eight games (41 vs. Chi on Nov. 5th and 8th and 41 vs. Milwaukee on Nov. 11th), becoming the first player since Michael Jordan in 1991 to score 40-or-more in at least three of a team's first eight games of a season.

With 38 points, seven rebounds, six assists, three blocks and four steals versus Boston on Jan. 9, he became the first person reach those numbers in a game since David Robinson on March 19, 1994.

Totaled 23 points, 15 rebounds, 11 assists and three blocks versus Sacramento on Jan. 27th, posting at least those numbers in a game since Larry Bird in 1987.

Tallied 33 points, 14 rebounds and nine assists on Jan. 24th at Utah, becoming the first player to record at least those numbers in a non-overtime game since Kevin Garnett in 2004.

At Madison Square Garden on Feb. 4th, James posted 52 points, nine rebounds, 11 assists and two blocks against the Knicks. The last player to have at least those numbers in a game was Wilt Chamberlain on March 18th, 1968. He joined Michael Jordan as the only two visitors to MSG to have multiple 50-point games.

Made a 2008-09 NBA season-high tying eight three-pointers on 11 attempts on his way to a season-best 55 points at Milwaukee on Feb. 20.

Became only the 12th player in NBA history to have three consecutive triple-doubles (March 7th, 10th and 12th).

Lead the Cavaliers in total points, rebounds assists, steals and blocks. He joins Kevin Garnett (MIN - 2002), Scottie Pippen (CHI -1994) and Dave Cowens (BOS - 1977) as the only players to accomplish that feat.

Posted 43 points, 12 rebounds, eight assists, four steals and a block versus Orlando on March 17th, joining Larry Bird in 1992 as the only players to record at least those numbers in a game.

With a PER ranking above 31.5, James is on pace to not only lead the league , but also have one of the top three seasons all-time (Michael Jordan currently owns the top four seasons: 1987-91).

Is the only active player in the NBA to have five consecutive seasons with at least 2,000 points and became just the ninth in NBA history, joining legends Kareem Abdul-Jabar, George Gervin, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlin, Dominique Wilkins, Oscar Robertson, Alex English and Karl Malone all-time.

With his fourth season of at least 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 500 assists, James became the 2nd player in NBA history (Oscar Robertson) to post at least those numbers in four seasons or more.

LeBron James finished March with 479 points, 152 rebounds and 143 assists. The only other player in NBA history to reach each of those totals in one month is Oscar Robertson, who did it in eight separate months, most recently in January 1965.

[Allstar24]

Would that be all your changes? Or are they anymore? I'd really like to know your opinion on this though.
Yes...the rest of your list looks good to me.

[Cool Guy]

Top 3 is about right.

4-9 are all interchangable.

[Fatal9]

Brandon Roy should be higher than Williams and Dirk imo. Agreed with the rest, though I'd put Wade at #2 instead of Lebron.

[Butters]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Dirk
Duncan
CP3
Yao
Howard
Melo
Roy

Top 3 are set.All others can be changed around but still all the same.

[enayes]

Where's the love for AI?

[RocketGreatness]

Brandon Roy should be higher than Williams and Dirk imo. Agreed with the rest, though I'd put Wade at #2 instead of Lebron.
Originally I did have B-Roy as 10th, but all said and done. It's kind of a complete toss up as I mentioned in my very last line. It's a toss up between DWill, Pierce, Roy, Melo, and Billups. You can probably throw in a guy like Kevin Durant or Amare in the list as well.

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Dirk
Duncan
CP3
Yao
Howard
Melo
D will.
Pretty good list, I think you are vastly underrating Chris Paul though. He is better than Dirk and Duncan at this point. He's been very over-looked by Wade, 24 and 23. His season stat-wise was actually more dominant than last year but his team wins were much worse.

All said and done, I think Dirk and KG are interchangeable on my list. My logic just says KG is better, but Dirk is the better 1st option and leader.


Where's the love for AI?
Sorry, but he wasn't a Top 10 last year if you ask me. I don't know where he is now, but It's not even Top 20 or 25 at this point.

[KG5MVP]

tim duncan chris paul overrated

KG waaaaaaaaay too low, should be 3rd or 4th

[KenneBell]

Looks about right to me. :pimp:

[Snoop_Cat]

Was this based on just the 08-09 season?

I don't know, I'm a huge fan of Tim Duncan, considering he's one of the only two jerseys I have, but I have to agree with the guy that said Dirk was better than Duncan the past year. His playoff performance was absolute beast, got a lot more respect for the guy now. Duncan kinda "meh"-ed out the 2nd half, though injury is to blame. In all cases, I think Duncan and Dirk should be separated around 1 or so people, or be #a and #b. But I'd still rather start a team around Duncan for his defensive prowess, so I'll say they're about even.

I don't think Chris Paul is the 4th best player and the best PG argument is up for grabs. Alot of his scoring comes based on the fact that his team can't score for ****, and a lot of his assists come from a team of jumpshooters. However, to his credit, he also led a decent N.O. team to the playoffs.

I'd like to have Yao higher on my personal rankings, but the fact that he's injured at some point is a really killer for me.

My rankings for 08-09:
1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant (Interchangeable with LeBron)
3. Dwayne Wade
4a. Tim Duncan
4b. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Chris Paul
7. Deron Williams
8. Dwight Howard
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Yao Ming

[lbj23clutch]

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Dwade
4. CP3
5. Tim Duncan(healthy)
6. Dwight
7. KG(healthy)
8. Dirk
9. Melo
10.B-Roy

[Mdog1]

Basically all of our lists are going to be the same (except that idiot that had 25 players listed better than Kobe)

LeBron
Wade
Kobe
CP3
Howard
Dirk
Roy
Duncan
Melo
Yao

I think it is obvious between the top 3, but basically 4-10 is hard. The top three is basically interchangable, but LeBron for now is at the top.

[lbj23clutch]

You talk about when healthly and you have no Yao Ming... :no:
Well I could rank Yao 10th over B-Roy, either is a good choice.

[chitownsfinest]

Luckily for you I don't give a **** what you think so gtfo

What the fu*k is your problem dude? I was posting my opinion and you make this statement?

[RocketGreatness]

Well I could rank Yao 10th over B-Roy, either is a good choice.
:banghead: eave now.


What the fu*k is your problem dude? I was posting my opinion and you make this statement?
Same for you.


tim duncan chris paul overrated

KG waaaaaaaaay too low, should be 3rd or 4th
You do know KG is completely past his prime right? His athletic ability has declined, but he's still a very skilled player. Most people don't have even have him as a Top 10 player. So just be happy. :hammertime:

[lbj23clutch]

:banghead: eave now.


Same for you.


You do know KG is completely past his prime right? His athletic ability has declined, but he's still a very skilled player. Most people don't have even have him as a Top 10 player. So just be happy. :hammertime:
it's an opinion dude, not everyone agree's with you. why even make a thread asking, when your just gunna be like that when somone has a different opinion?

[Juges8932]

1. Kobe
2. LBJ
3. D-Wade
4. CP3
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Roy
8. KG
9. Duncan
10. Yao

Last three would be higher if healthy, maybe. Melo is arguably on that list as well. Along with Deron.

[Kingwillball]

tim duncan chris paul overrated

KG waaaaaaaaay too low, should be 3rd or 4th


maybe cause your a KG Homer..He is lucky to be in top 10 actually at this moment he is not top 10 and it is doubtful he returns to that status. 3 or 4 years ago KG was top 5 no question.

[gxL]

Top 3 is about right.

4-9 are all interchangable.
this.

brandon roy could be in top 10 too

[lbj23clutch]

Was I asking for your opinion, No but seriously leave. It's clear you have no clut what the hell you are talking about, saying Yao is only the 10th best player in the league. Get out right now. :banghead:


Hey blindie it says WHEN HEALTHY.
actually you were asking me, that's why you made this thread, to hear people's opinions. :hammerhead:

[Kingwillball]

The lists are all pretty decent except Lebron is clearly the best player in the world. It is funny a few days ago everyone was saying Kobe was still the best closer since they accepted Lebron overtaking him. Now Kobe wins another championship and all of the sudden people are calling him #1 again. Sorry, Lebron is still better individually Kobe just had the better team.

[D-Rose]

Was I asking for your opinion, No but seriously leave. It's clear you have no clut what the hell you are talking about, saying Yao is only the 10th best player in the league. Get out right now. :banghead:


Hey blindie it says WHEN HEALTHY.
It is an opinion after all?

Other than Dwight on that list, I bet if there was a draft of these players, the following would go ahead of Yao

Kobe
LeBron
Wade
CP3
Duncan
Dirk
Roy
Deron
Garnett
Melo

All the above bring more team success than Yao, so you can make a case that they are better.:confusedshrug:

[D-Rose]

I don't get nor do I care, but I'm looking for your Top 10 list you idot, so you can either make it or get the hell out right now.
:oldlol: You completely ignored the angle I took, that just means you know it's true.

As for my list:

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. Wade
4. CP3
5. Duncan
6. Dirk
7. Dwight
8. Roy
9. Melo
10. Yao/KG (whoever is healthier):lol

[D-Rose]

um. Didn't you say a healthy Yao is better than a healthy Dwight, Wtf is wrong with you seriously, do you get drunk everyday or something? Make up your ****ing mind right now idiot. I don't give a **** about your sorry ass feelings.
A healthy Dwight Howard is going to give me 14 rebounds and 3 blocks a night. DPOY, no big man in the league is even close to him in defensive presence.

Yao gives me 20 PPG on 14 FGA.

Dwight gives me 21 PPG on 13 FGA.

The difference is the defense.

Dwight got "exposed" or whatever against Bynum/Gasol but this is the NBA, you don't face that talented of a frontline every night. Dwight is so athletic, that his athleticism alone lets him beat other centers in the post, despite the fact that he is mostly a dunker or a baby hook shooter.

[RocketGreatness]

A healthy Dwight Howard is going to give me 14 rebounds and 3 blocks a night. DPOY, no big man in the league is even close to him in defensive presence.

Yao gives me 20 PPG on 14 FGA.

Dwight gives me 21 PPG on 13 FGA.

The difference is the defense.

Dwight got "exposed" or whatever against Bynum/Gasol but this is the NBA, you don't face that talented of a frontline every night. Dwight is so athletic, that his athleticism alone lets him beat other centers in the post, despite the fact that he is mostly a dunker or a baby hook shooter.
Yep and I'm sure Brandon Roy and Carmelo Anthony are going to bring you that over Yao Ming as well. You are ****ing retarded, Do you even know how to answer questions correctly? The question was who would you rather take a healthy Yao or a healthy Howadr, jesus you are an idiot, Gtfo right now.

You do nothing but change your mind and make double standard posts. Just leave dude you are pathetic.

[SRZ66]

wow i am completely and utterly astonished ish didn't go ape$hit over duncan not being in the top 3. i think kg is too high. i'd rather have melo or b roy over him anyday. good list though

[D-Rose]

Yep and I'm sure Brandon Roy and Carmelo Anthony are going to bring you that over Yao Ming as well. You are ****ing retarded, Do you even know how to answer questions correctly? The question was who would you rather take a healthy Yao or a healthy Howadr, jesus you are an idiot, Gtfo right now.
:oldlol:

I would take a healthy Howard over a Healthy Yao.

Howard is a far better defensive player, we can all agree on that.

Then despite the fact that Howard has no post moves, his offensive numbers are better. One more pt on one less FGA, you GTFO:oldlol:

Melo and Roy are swingmen, how am I going to compare them to Yao/Dwight. They are clearly better scorers and leaders than Yao and are more talented. Melo and Roy haven't even hit their peaks yet, statistically, Yao is already there at age 28.

[RocketGreatness]

:oldlol:

I would take a healthy Howard over a Healthy Yao.

Howard is a far better defensive player, we can all agree on that.

Then despite the fact that Howard has no post moves, his offensive numbers are better. One more pt on one less FGA, you GTFO:oldlol:

Melo and Roy are swingmen, how am I going to compare them to Yao/Dwight. They are clearly better scorers and leaders than Yao and are more talented. Melo and Roy haven't even hit their peaks yet, statistically, Yao is already there at age 28.
Yeah and Defensively? See this is where you are being an absolute idiot. You say Howard is better because of his FG% and defensive purposes. Unless Roy and Melo are better than Yao on that end than ok fine. But they aren't and they shoot a lot less efficient than Yao does.

Just leave seriously, you are an absolutely shame to every single laker fan and every single person who lives in Houston.

Does anybody with a real brain want to talk about my list? Because D-Rose clearly does not have one.

[monkeypox]

Personally I'd move Garnett to 10, Deron to 8, and swap Yao and Duncan. Maybe even drop Paul.

[donald_trump]

Top 3 are all equal. One cannot be put over the other.

4. Nowitzki
5. Howard
6. Paul
7. Anthony
8. Duncan
9. Garnett
10. Roy

[D-Rose]

Yeah and Defensively? See this is where you are being an absolute idiot. You say Howard is better because of his FG% and defensive purposes. Unless Roy and Melo are better than Yao on that end than ok fine. But they aren't and they shoot a lot less efficient than Yao does.

Just leave seriously, you are an absolutely shame to every single laker fan and every single person who lives in Houston.

Does anybody with a real head want to talk about my list?

First of all anyone that compares a PF/C FG% to a perimter player needs to understand that shots closer to the basket=higher percentage:oldlol:

Yao obviously blocks more shots and rebounds more than a SF/SG. The other two obviously get more steals.

Comparing Yao and Dwight defensively is oranges and oranges. Comparing Yao and Roy/Melo defensively is oranges and apples.

Dwight has the same offensive production despite being illiterate in post moves and is a far better defensive presence than Yao.

Yao is not a scorer like Shaq. Shaq is a better scorer in his prime at the Center position than Roy or Melo are at all. Yao averages 19 PPG on 53%, Pau Gasol beats that.

You want me to tell you why Roy/Melo>Yao? Same reason Wade/KB/LBJ are. More offensively dominant players. Neither has hit their peak. Both have had relative team success and both are better leaders than Yao.

[RocketGreatness]

First of all anyone that compares a PF/C FG% to a perimter player needs to understand that shots closer to the basket=higher percentage:oldlol:

Yao obviously blocks more shots and rebounds more than a SF/SG. The other two obviously get more steals.

Comparing Yao and Dwight defensively is oranges and oranges. Comparing Yao and Roy/Melo defensively is oranges and apples.

Dwight has the same offensive production despite being illiterate in post moves and is a far better defensive presence than Yao.

Yao is not a scorer like Shaq. Shaq is a better scorer in his prime at the Center position than Roy or Melo are at all. Yao averages 19 PPG on 53%, Pau Gasol beats that.

You want me to tell you why Roy/Melo>Yao? Same reason Wade/KB/LBJ are. More offensively dominant players. Neither has hit their peak. Both have had relative team success and both are better leaders than Yao.
And where is proof they are better leaders? Melo never led his team past the 1st round without Billups, Roy has yet to get past the 1st round,

All I've seen you do is type up an opinion that is a blatant lie so I am clearly done with you at this point, because I am not arguing with an idiot Kobe only fan. Have a nice day and I hope you get run over by a car tomorrow.

[donald_trump]

And where is proof they are better leaders? Melo never led his team past the 1st round without Billups, Roy has yet to get past the 1st round,
All I've seen you do is type up an opinion that is a blatant lie so I am clearly done with you at this point, because I am not arguing with an idiot Kobe only fan. Have a nice day and I hope you get run over by a car tomorrow.

Couldn't the same be said for Yao not getting past the first round without Artest?

[D-Rose]

And where is proof they are better leaders? Melo never led his team past the 1st round without Billups, Roy has yet to get past the 1st round,

All I've seen you do is type up an opinion that is a blatant lie so I am clearly done with you at this point, because I am not arguing with an idiot Kobe only fan. Have a nice day and I hope you get run over by a car tomorrow.

Haha I'm the Kobe fan? You were the one supporting a Kobe avatar during the playoffs :roll: :roll: Not to mentio begging for rep points in the Laker forum because you were "rooting for LA".:oldlol:

Roy is not a leader?:oldlol: He owns that team and it is just his 3rd season. Rookie of the year, 2-time all-star and clear leader of a team that he took from being the "Jailblazers" to a respected 50 win team now.

Melo was better than Billups in the playoffs by far, the Dallas series belonged to him and he did well against LA as well. Billups will be around for only so long, this is Melo's team and he's more talented than Billups as well.

If there was a draft of NBA players today, Melo and Roy go before Yao easily. They are both young players that are yet to hit their primes, and they are healthy, neither is going to fracture their left foot any minute. You live in some fantasy world that Yao is never injured or isn't affected by his injuries. He's obviously slower because of his injuries. One reason I dought he performs well deep in the playoffs is because he is so tired the whole year from 90+ games.

Yao's offensive production and post moves are easily matched by Pau Gasol and Gasol is arguably a better defender. Yet Pau is nowhere near the Top 10? :oldlol:

[RocketGreatness]

Couldn't the same be said for Yao not getting past the first round without Artest?
You would make somewhat of a decent point if Artest elevated the Rockets from an 8th seed to a 2nd seed. You would also make more of a decent point if he was an all-star at this point in his career which he's not.


Roy is not a leader?:oldlol: He owns that team and it is just his 3rd season. Rookie of the year, 2-time all-star and clear leader of a team that he took from being the "Jailblazers" to a respected 50 win team now.

And....That makes him better than Yao because of that? I guess Yao elevating the Rockets to a playoff team doesn't count then. :rolleyes:



Melo was better than Billups in the playoffs by far, the Dallas series belonged to him and he did well against LA as well. Billups will be around for only so long, this is Melo's team and he's more talented than Billups as well.

Yeah and that 1st round doesn't mean anything I mean you could get knocked out of the playoffs that way but oh well right? :rolleyes:


If there was a draft of NBA players today, Melo and Roy go before Yao easily. They are both young players that are yet to hit their primes, and they are healthy, neither is going to fracture their left foot any minute. You live in some fantasy world that Yao is never injured or isn't affected by his injuries. He's obviously slower because of his injuries. One reason I dought he performs well deep in the playoffs is because he is so tired the whole year from 90+ games.

Looks like the term when healthy has never struck your stupid head yet.


Yao's offensive production and post moves are easily matched by Pau Gasol and Gasol is arguably a better defender. Yet Pau is nowhere near the Top 10? :oldlol:
Hm maybe if Pau was on a team similar to the Rockets which would be no Kobe Bryant on it you would make a decent point and stop right now if you think Gasol is the better defender.

[D-Rose]

And....That makes him better than Yao because of that? I guess Yao elevating the Rockets to a playoff team doesn't count then. :rolleyes:


Yeah and that 1st round doesn't mean anything I mean you could get knocked out of the playoffs that way but oh well right? :rolleyes:


Looks like the term when healthy has never struck your stupid head yet.

Hm maybe if Pau was on a team similar to the Rockets which would be no Kobe Bryant on it you would make a decent point and stop right now if you think Gasol is the better defender.
I'm just going to agree to disagree on comparing a perimeter player to a Center.

There was a stat that showed that in this series Dwight went 1-on-1 with Gasol over 50 times thise series and Dwight got zero field goals.

Gasol was the best player on a 50 win team in Memphis. He didn't have a player like Tracy McGrady or Ron Artest to play with, yet still in the tough West he made the playoffs and just like Yao didn't win in a series.

Compare the two this year:

Gasol: 19 PPG on 12.9 FGA, 57%. 9.6 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1 BPG

Yao: 20 PPG on 13.3 FGA, 55%. 9.9 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.9 BPG

Looks like it's nearly the exact same stat line, so tell me now how does Gasol not sniff the Top 10 yet according to you Yao is a lock.:oldlol:

[oh the horror]

I cant really argue anything on that list. It does indeed look about right.

[donald_trump]

You would make somewhat of a decent point if Artest elevated the Rockets from an 8th seed to a 2nd seed. You would also make more of a decent point if he was an all-star at this point in his career which he's not.

They only won 4 more games then the previous season.

Yao had the benefit of playing with a former DPOY, along with the rise of Brooks. Brooks was the one doing most of the damage against L.A. and they infact played better without Yao.

[RocketGreatness]

I cant really argue anything on that list. It does indeed look about right.
:applause: Thank you and repped.


Yao had the benefit of playing with a former DPOY
Who got pretty much zero playing time in the regular season? :rolleyes: However, he did mentor and tutor him quite well but he has done that a lot over the years.


along with the rise of Brooks. Brooks was the one doing most of the damage against L.A. and they infact played better without Yao
If Brooks wasn't a mistake prone, low IQ, Gimmick PG, I would consider this but since he is. You fail.

[D-Rose]

Maybe if he was the 1st option he would be, but as you can see from my Top 10 list almost everybody on that list except maybe KG is a 1st option player. All said and done I am done with you, Bout to use my ignore list too if I hear another stupid respond.

Garnett is not the first option for the Celtics. He's 3rd on the team in FGA.

Dwight is 4th on his team in FGA.

Yao is 3rd (2nd if TMac doesnt count) on his team in FGA.

CP3 is 2nd on his team in FGA.

Which brings me to my point of Gasol being SECOND on his team in FGA, meaning he is more of an option to his team than Garnett, Dwight, or Yao. He has similar stats to Yao, so he still doesn't sniff anyone's list.:oldlol:

I don't disagree with your list either, most of these players are interchangeable depending on what constitutes "better" in everyone's mind. I might put Dirk over Melo, someone else might disagree and I say "I can see that". You have Yao at 6, I can see that. I don't see why you have such an emotional problem seeing Yao low on anyone else's list, it's very debatable.

You're acting like he didn't even make my list, he's at 10 which is fine IMO because like I said Gasol = same stats and not on there.

[donald_trump]

:applause: Thank you and repped.


Who got pretty much zero playing time in the regular season? :rolleyes: However, he did mentor and tutor him quite well but he has done that a lot over the years.

If Brooks wasn't a mistake prone, low IQ, Gimmick PG, I would consider this but since he is. You fail.

So why did they push L.A. to seven games without Yao? Did they just get lucky?

[john_d]

i agree with your list. rocket.

but in any given night, 4-10 would change.

[D-Rose]

i agree with your list. rocket.

but in any given night, 4-10 would change.
This was exactly my point RG, it's all very debatable in that area, even with Yao.

[thejumpa]

Good list RocketGreatness

DWill at #10. Come on man......you and I both know DWill is better than Paul.

#4 DWill.

[RocketGreatness]

Good list RocketGreatness

DWill at #10. Come on man......you and I both know DWill is better than Paul.

#4 DWill.
Well in my opinion, Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA by a small margin and the only reason why I say this is because he led that pathetic Hornets team to the playoffs. Honestly, the Jazz minus D-Will are a lot more talented than the Hornets Minus Chris Paul. The Jazz would probably miss the playoffs but get 9th seed or something, while the Hornets would be contending with the Sacramento Kings for the worst the team in the NBA.

I will say this though, in the 07-08 season, I had said D-Will was better until the end of the 08 playoffs because Chris Paul really emerged then.

[depletedW]

I know it's your opinion and all, but I have two main complaints.

First and foremost, Dirk is way too low. Period.


And second, I'm sick of all this Yao is the greatest center ever* crap.

*(WHEN HEALTHY)

Eventually you have to begin to factor it into the equation if a player is extremely injury prone. Injuries are part of the game and happen to players occasionally. But if a player gets hurt every other damn day, it is stupid to continue to give him a free pass and act like it is just some fluke occurence. Accept it as part of who he is as a player and take it into account when you factor it into his ratings.

[Tha Catalyst]

First of all, Dirk is way too low.


And second, I'm sick of all this Yao is the greatest center ever* crap.

*(WHEN HEALTHY)

Eventually you have to begin to factor it into the equation if a player is extremely injury prone. Injuries are part of the game and happen to players occasionally. But if a player gets hurt every other damn day, it is stupid to continue to give him a free pass and act like it is just some fluke occurence. Accept it as part of who he is as a player and take it into account when you factor it into his ratings.

Yessss! You have to consider how the player actually plays on the court in reality rather than considering how good they could be if they were healthy. It is unlikely that Yao will ever be fully healthy again in his career and it is neccesary that a player is judged on their current play rather then what they could be. It's not like you see anyone come in here and put VC in here 'if motivated' or Eddy Curry 'if skinny'.

[depletedW]

Yessss! You have to consider how the player actually plays on the court in reality rather than considering how good they could be if they were healthy. It is unlikely that Yao will ever be fully healthy again in his career and it is neccesary that a player is judged on their current play rather then what they could be. It's not like you see anyone come in here and put VC in here 'if motivated' or Eddy Curry 'if skinny'.
:cheers:

[All Net]

Well done on making the effort to do that analysis..couldn't of been quick to do.

[sirkeelma]

Man is LeBron underrated on this ISH forum:

When you think about the fact that it took Jordan 11 seasons of playing most the year to finish top 10 in the MVP voting 10 times, and LeBron has already done that 6 times in 6 seasons, he's only 4 years away from matching a mark that Jordan posted over his entire career. I personally think a lot of people underrate LeBron because he's only 24. The type of production and level of greatness LeBron has produced in his first 6 years is the type of production you usually see during a legend's peak. Just imagine if he stays relatively healthy for another 10 years. He's gonna be knocking on Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem and maybe even Jordan's back door to take their spots.

LeBron finished ahead of Mr. Bryant in MVP voting in 2004-2005, 2005-2006, and 2008-2009. So in 3 out of LeBron's first 6 years in the NBA he was able to finish ahead of Kobe in MVP voting, despite Kobe being in his prime, and LeBron still hasn't even turned 25 years old yet. Do you people understand how good he is?

LeBron has been the best player in the NBA since 2004-2005:

04-05:
LeBron 27.2ppg 7.4reb 7.2ast 47%fg 2.2stl .7blk
Kobe 27.6ppg 5.9reb 6.0ast 45%fg 1.3stl .8blk

05-06
LeBron 31.4ppg 7.0reb 6.6ast 48%fg 1.6stl .8blk
Kobe 35.4ppg 5.3reb 4.5ast 45%fg 1.8stl .4blk

06-07
LeBron 27.3ppg 7.0reb 6.6ast 48%fg 1.6stl .8blk
Kobe 31.6ppg 5.7reb 5.4ast 46%fg 1.4stl .5blk

07-08
LeBron 30.0ppg 7.9reb 7.2ast 48%fg 1.8stl 1.1blk
Kobe 28.3ppg 6.3reb 5.4ast 45%fg 1.8stl .5blk

08-09
LeBron 28.4ppg 7.6reb 7.2ast 49%fg 1.7stl 1.1blk
Kobe 26.8ppg 5.2reb 4.9ast 46%fg 1.5stl .5blk

Accumulated stats the last 5 years:
LeBron James 28.9ppg 7.3reb 6.9ast 48%fg 1.8stl .9blk
Kobe Bryant 29.9ppg 5.6reb 5.1ast 45%fg 1.5stl .5blk
Kobe has taken 273 more shots than LeBron James in that timespan.

Just look at how the two performed against the exact same team and exact same defenders:
LeBron vs Orlando 2009 playoffs...38.5ppg 48.7%fg 8.3reb 8ast 1.16blk 1.16stl
Kobe vs Orlando 2009 playoffs..... 32.4ppg 42.9%fg 5.6reb 7.4ast 1.4blk 1.4stl

Playoffs production as a whole:
LeBron 2009: 35.3ppg 51%fg 9reb 7ast
Kobe 2009: 30.2ppg 45.7%fg 5.5reb 5.3ast

This is so lopsided you would be a nutcase to think Kobe's better!


Ah just for good measure:
Led the Cavaliers to a franchise-high 66 victories and the top record in the NBA.

Led the Cavaliers to the Central Division title for the second time in franchise history (1975-76).

The Cavs own the best record against the Western Conference in the NBA (26-4).

From 2007-08 to 2008-09, the Cavs have already improved their win total by 21 games; the 21-game win improvement is the 3rd most ever by a team that has won 45 or more games the previous year.

Helped the Cavs set their longest winning streak with a 13-game win streak from Mar. 7, 2009 - Mar. 31, 2009. Cavs also broke records for longest winning streak at home (23 games; Oct. 30, 2008 - February 3, 2009) and longest winning streak at home to start a season (23 games; Oct. 30, 2008 - February 3, 2009).

In a Sports Illustrated poll of 190 NBA players, LeBron James was voted as the opposing player most players would want to be their teammate (32% of the vote, next closest received 13%).

Became the youngest player in NBA history to score 11,000 points (23 years, 324 days) and 12,000 points (24 years, 35 days) during the season.

Became the youngest player (23 years, 308 days) and fastest (395 games) to reach the following totals: 10,000 points, 2,500 rebounds, 2,500 assists, 700 steals and 300 blocks.

Scored 41 points in three of the Cavs first eight games (41 vs. Chi on Nov. 5th and 8th and 41 vs. Milwaukee on Nov. 11th), becoming the first player since Michael Jordan in 1991 to score 40-or-more in at least three of a team's first eight games of a season.

With 38 points, seven rebounds, six assists, three blocks and four steals versus Boston on Jan. 9, he became the first person reach those numbers in a game since David Robinson on March 19, 1994.

Totaled 23 points, 15 rebounds, 11 assists and three blocks versus Sacramento on Jan. 27th, posting at least those numbers in a game since Larry Bird in 1987.

Tallied 33 points, 14 rebounds and nine assists on Jan. 24th at Utah, becoming the first player to record at least those numbers in a non-overtime game since Kevin Garnett in 2004.

At Madison Square Garden on Feb. 4th, James posted 52 points, nine rebounds, 11 assists and two blocks against the Knicks. The last player to have at least those numbers in a game was Wilt Chamberlain on March 18th, 1968. He joined Michael Jordan as the only two visitors to MSG to have multiple 50-point games.

Made a 2008-09 NBA season-high tying eight three-pointers on 11 attempts on his way to a season-best 55 points at Milwaukee on Feb. 20.

Became only the 12th player in NBA history to have three consecutive triple-doubles (March 7th, 10th and 12th).

Lead the Cavaliers in total points, rebounds assists, steals and blocks. He joins Kevin Garnett (MIN - 2002), Scottie Pippen (CHI -1994) and Dave Cowens (BOS - 1977) as the only players to accomplish that feat.

Posted 43 points, 12 rebounds, eight assists, four steals and a block versus Orlando on March 17th, joining Larry Bird in 1992 as the only players to record at least those numbers in a game.

With a PER ranking above 31.5, James is on pace to not only lead the league , but also have one of the top three seasons all-time (Michael Jordan currently owns the top four seasons: 1987-91).

Is the only active player in the NBA to have five consecutive seasons with at least 2,000 points and became just the ninth in NBA history, joining legends Kareem Abdul-Jabar, George Gervin, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlin, Dominique Wilkins, Oscar Robertson, Alex English and Karl Malone all-time.

With his fourth season of at least 2,000 points, 500 rebounds and 500 assists, James became the 2nd player in NBA history (Oscar Robertson) to post at least those numbers in four seasons or more.

LeBron James finished March with 479 points, 152 rebounds and 143 assists. The only other player in NBA history to reach each of those totals in one month is Oscar Robertson, who did it in eight separate months, most recently in January 1965.

1 Question.. Where's the championship ring?

[thejumpa]

One last thing.....

1.Lebron
2.Kobe

[depletedW]

Man is LeBron underrated on this ISH forum:


:oldlol:
LeBron is an underrated player huh?


...Anyways I wish I could copy and paste absurd amounts of stats and then become infuriated at everyone who disagrees with me at the rate he does.:rolleyes:

[barbaroi]

One last thing.....

1.Lebron
2.Kobe
Says the guy with Kobe at 17 on his all time list...

Anyway,
1) Kobe
2) Lebron
3) Wade
4) Howard
5) Yao
6) Dirk
7) Duncan
8) D Will
9) KG
10) CP3

I understand that the Hornets are terrible, but I can't bring myself to say CP3 had a great season when he allowed his team to get beat by Denver in 5, losing a game by 58 while he only scored 4 and had 6 TO.

[thejumpa]

Says the guy with Kobe at 17 on his all time list...


:D

[Samurai Swoosh]

1) Kobe Bryant
2) LeBron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Kevin Garnett
6) Carmelo Anthony
7) Tim Duncan
8) Brandon Roy
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10) Dwight Howard

[D-Rose]

1) Kobe Bryant
2) LeBron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Kevin Garnett
6) Carmelo Anthony
7) Tim Duncan
8) Brandon Roy
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10) Dwight Howard
Now you're going to get destroyed by RG...How dare you post in his thread and NOT have Yao in the top 10..shame on you!!!!:no:

:rolleyes:

[Bodhi]

The lists are all pretty decent except Lebron is clearly the best player in the world. It is funny a few days ago everyone was saying Kobe was still the best closer since they accepted Lebron overtaking him. Now Kobe wins another championship and all of the sudden people are calling him #1 again. Sorry, Lebron is still better individually Kobe just had the better team.

That's because the main criticism of Kobe was that he had yet to prove that he could lead his team to a championship so people chose LeBron based on the higher stats. Kobe proved that he can win and he's back in the debate for #1.

[dafunkphenom]

Top 2 are pretty much tied
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lebron James

3. Chris Paul
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Deron Williams
9. Paul Pierce
10. Amare Stoudemire

[dafunkphenom]

You have Dirk above Dwight and yet Yao is not even there. Obviously you have bad logic and you shouldn't be posting here. Leave now


:roll: I've seen you post, You are a joke. It doesn't matter what you think. You have a personal agenda against Yao.
Yao and Dirk are 2 of the most overrated players in the NBA and will never win a championship. True that I've stated that in a few threads and I'm pretty confident that I will never be proven wrong.

[Bodhi]

You have Dirk above Dwight and yet Yao is not even there. Obviously you have bad logic and you shouldn't be posting here. Leave now


:roll: I've seen you post, You are a joke. It doesn't matter what you think. You have a personal agenda against Yao.

Uh, I'm pretty sure that Yao isn't important enough for people to have an agenda against him.

[Twiens]

1.Kobe
2.Bron
3.Wade
4.Garnett
5.Paul
6.Dirk
7.Duncan
8.Howard
9.Yao
10.Dwill

[dafunkphenom]

Nice logic, too bad there was none, You can leave now.
Logic, buddy I've watched She-Mac and Yao (It hurts) Ming stink it up down there in Houston on plenty of occasions. Yao is a stiff who can't move his core or run up and down the court fast enough to be called an elite player. The guy can at least hit his free throws I'll give him that. However there are small forwards that are more indimidating than Yao. If you can't make it out on the court in the playoffs proves my point even more. Why don't you face the fact that the heart of your team is ghetto fool Ron Artest. I feel for ya because you're bound to see Rockets members out on the lake fishing come spring rather than on the court.

[KG5MVP]

1.Kobe
2.Bron
3.Wade
4.Garnett
5.Paul
6.Dirk
7.Duncan
8.Howard
9.Yao
10.Dwill

that seems about right, except Yao should be higher than Howard

[truethat23]

Melo should be in the top 5, possibly at number 5.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Now you're going to get destroyed by RG...How dare you post in his thread and NOT have Yao in the top 10..shame on you!!!!:no:

:rolleyes:
He's not top ten, so I definetely wouldn't have him in there.

:roll:

I know and he sent me a PM calling me an idiot and telling me to stay out of his thread.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

When it's basically any posters opinion of who their top ten players are in the league.

[Samurai Swoosh]

You have Dirk above Dwight and yet Yao is not even there. Obviously you have bad logic and you shouldn't be posting here. Leave now.
Nope, all players either produce better, are better team leaders, straight up more impactful players, and all have intangibles that make them more valuable than Yao Ming. And I'm not even bringing durability into question, which would make me rank Yao Ming even further down the list. Add to the fact he's got no balls as a player. And yeah, there are alot of players I'd take over Yao Ming. Some who didn't even make this top ten NBA players list.

[A.M.G.]

Dwight Howard leads a team to the Finals, yet Yao "injured every year" Ming is better than him. Until Yao proves that he is durable enough to last through an entire playoff run, he probably isn't even top 10. Ranking him above Howard, Garnett, and Nowitski is laughable, blatant homerism.

[chains5000]

Yao 6th?:oldlol:

[RocketGreatness]

Dwight Howard leads a team to the Finals, yet Yao "injured every year" Ming is better than him. Until Yao proves that he is durable enough to last through an entire playoff run, he probably isn't even top 10. Ranking him above Howard, Garnett, and Nowitski is laughable, blatant homerism.
I don't think you get the term when healthy, but it doesn't really matter what you think it all, Didn't you say Russell would just be anotoher Ben Wallace today? You are a joke, so leave please. It's not like your franchise is going anywhere with that p*ssy Chris Bosh and that p*ssy fan by the name of A.M.G on insidehoops.

By the way you ****ing idiot it's not like KG or Duncan were Iron men this year either you tool.

[A.M.G.]

I don't think you get the term when healthy, but it doesn't really matter what you think it all, Didn't you say Russell would just be anotoher Ben Wallace today? You are a joke, so leave please. It's not like your franchise is going anywhere with that p*ssy Chris Bosh and that p*ssy fan by the name of A.M.G on insidehoops.

By the way you ****ing idiot it's not like KG or Duncan were Iron men this year either you tool.
You can hurl petty, baseless insults all you want, that really just makes you look like a child. And I'll admit that for now the Raptors suck.

None of this changes the fact that Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett, and Dirk Nowitski are better than Yao Ming, probably even when healthy.

[chains5000]

You really believe Yao's better than Howard or Dirk?:wtf:

[chains5000]

:rolleyes:

[chains5000]

Even Gasol > Yao.

[A.M.G.]

Coming from you, :roll:

I'm glad their are still INTELLIGENT people out there that believe Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard since everything you say is the opposite anyways.


You really believe You are actually worthy of being responded to? :oldlol:
So you make this thread claiming that Yao Ming is the #6 player in the NBA,

ahead of Dwight Howard, this year's Defensive Player of the Year who just led his team to the Finals, CLEARLY the best overall center in the NBA,

ahead of Kevin Garnett, last year's Defensive Player of the Year, led his team to an NBA Championship last year, and a former MVP,

and ahead of Dirk Nowitski, a former MVP, currently the best offensive big man in the NBA, who has led his team to the Finals not too long ago.

All of this in your desperate, counter-intuitive attempt to prop up Yao Ming, a player who has advanced out of the first round once in his entire career, and is a constant injury risk who has proven himself to not be durable over the past few post-seasons. I'm not saying Yao Ming isn't a very good player, but Dwight, KG, and Dirk are BETTER.

If your only response to rational arguments is to insult people and cling to this idea that when healthy Yao Ming will automatically be better than 3 of the 4 best big men in the NBA, well then you should just not bother making threads. Because most people will disagree with you every time, and you will just embarrass yourself by insulting everyone like a little kid.

[Mr Know It All]

Meh, Lebron is the better individual player right now, but like all those who are cursed with a bad team around them he's put behind the more fortunate Kobe Bryant. Dirk has been better than Duncan since 2006, but few people tend to realize it because of their natural hate of Dirk and their natural (and deserved) admiration of Duncan. Garnett is not a top 10 player, enough of this "when healthy" bull****. He's the third option offensively on the Celtics AT BEST in big moments, as we've seen during last year's playoffs. Here's my list if you want to criticize me as well:

1) Lebron
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) Paul
5) Dirk
6) Dwight
7) D Williams
8) Duncan
9) Yao
10) Pierce

[RocketGreatness]

Meh, Lebron is the better individual player right now, but like all those who are cursed with a bad team around them he's put behind the more fortunate Kobe Bryant. Dirk has been better than Duncan since 2006, but few people tend to realize it because of their natural hate of Dirk and their natural (and deserved) admiration of Duncan. Garnett is not a top 10 player, enough of this "when healthy" bull****. He's the third option offensively on the Celtics AT BEST in big moments, as we've seen during last year's playoffs. Here's my list if you want to criticize me as well:

1) Lebron
2) Kobe
3) Wade
4) Paul
5) Dirk
6) Dwight
7) D Williams
8) Duncan
9) Yao
10) Pierce
Yao>Dwight get it right, Idiot.

So you make this thread claiming that Yao Ming is the #6 player in the NBA,

ahead of Dwight Howard, this year's Defensive Player of the Year who just led his team to the Finals, CLEARLY the best center in the NBA,

ahead of Kevin Garnett, last year's Defensive Player of the Year, led his team to an NBA Championship last year, and a former MVP,

and ahead of Dirk Nowitski, a former MVP, currently the best offensive big man in the NBA, who has led his team to the Finals not too long ago.

All of this in your desperate, counter-intuitive attempt to prop up Yao Ming, a player who has advanced out of the first round once in his entire career, and is a constant injury risk who has proven himself to not be durable over the past few post-seasons. I'm not saying Yao Ming isn't a very good player, but Dwight, KG, and Dirk are BETTER.

If your only response to rational arguments is to insult people and cling to this idea that when healthy Yao Ming will automatically be better than 3 of the 4 best big men in the NBA, well then you should just not bother making threads. Because most people will disagree with you every time, and you will just embarrass yourself by insulting everyone like a little kid.
Yeah you are right, because players who won an award 2-3 years ago CAN'T DECLINE. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised if you are actually Chris Bosh himself, but Chris Bosh loves to suck on Dwight's balls and hate on Yao's. You are an idiot, and you are 3..2...1..seconds away from joining my ignore list. IT's clear that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and I doubt you ever played basketball in your lifetime, regardless. Welcome to my ignore list tool . BY the way you idiot canadian ,people have already agreed with me.

[chains5000]

Yao>Dwight get it right you ****ing retard or get the **** out p*ssy.
Mr. Retard with another great, intelligent answer. :applause:

[john_d]

WTF is the obsession with YAO MING.

i can actually live without him in the top freaking 10 players on the league

[chains5000]

WTF is the obsession with YAO MING.

i can actually live without him in the top freaking 10 players on the league
Be careful with what you say, you may end up in RocketGreatness' ignore list! :oldlol:

[jmill]

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dirk
8. Yao
9. Deron Williams
10. Kevin Garnett

[jmill]

Dwight Howard's PER by year

17
19
21
23
25

Dude is just steadily improving every year, and he's only 23. Pretty sick.

[Papaya Petee]

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Dirk
Cp3
Deron
Dwight
Melo
Roy
Pierce
Yao
TD
KG

[lolwut]

WTF is the obsession with YAO MING.

i can actually live without him in the top freaking 10 players on the league



ROFL you probably dislike him bc if he had been healthy for the whole Laker series you guys would not have your ring

[A.M.G.]

Yao>Dwight get it right you ****ing retard or get the **** out p*ssy.

Yeah you are right, because players who won an award 2-3 years ago CAN'T DECLINE. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be if you are actually Chris Bosh, but Chris Bosh loves to suck on Dwight's balls and hate on Yao's. You are an idiot, and you are 3..2...1..seconds away from joining my ignore list. IT's clear that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and I doubt you ever played basketball in your lifetime, regardless. Welcome to my ignore list tool .
This post pretty much convinced me that you're either a committed troll, or a crazy idiot who is incapable of rational argument. So I'm not sure why I'm continuing to argue with you. But here goes.

KG won that award ONE year ago, and has not declined significantly. Yes he got injured, but so did Yao. Except unlike Yao, KG doesn't get injured every year. He is 100x more accomplished than Yao, and still a better overall player despite his age. But he has declined a bit, so he is the one that Yao is closest to being on par with.

Dirk is still the best offensive big man in the NBA by your own admission, and like KG is about 100x more accomplished than Yao. He has not declined since he won the MVP, but his team overall has aged and gotten worse.

And Dwight won his Defensive Player of the Year award, has just gotten his team to the NBA Finals, although they lost, and isn't even in his prime yet (ie. he will continue to improve, unlike the nearly 30 Yao). Dwight is superior to Yao in every aspect of being a center except shooting the ball. He get's more rebounds, more blocked shots, better one-on-one defender, more points in the paint. Yao shoots a higher FT%, and scores more total points.

I understand you wish you could suck on Yao's balls, and you apparently think I'm "hating on" Yao's balls, in favour of Dwight's balls. Let's leave your fondness for homosexual metaphors out of this though, and concentrate on the fact that Dwight, Dirk, and KG are actually better than Yao.

If you actually put me on your ignore list, I'll take that as a victory, because you never offered a valid counter-argument. That just means you b!tched out. You fled the field of battle. You failed Mr. Yao Ming. He's going to beat you when he get's home tonight.

[jmill]

ROFL you probably dislike him bc if he had been healthy for the whole Laker series you guys would not have your ring

It's like you tried to make as little sense as possible.

For one, using your logic we should like him because his injury allowed us to win it all.

Two, the Rockets this year went 1-6 against the Lakers with Yao in the lineup. 1-2 in the playoffs.

1-6 overall. Not the Lakers fault the Rockets couldn't get it done with Yao.

[Samurai Swoosh]

ROFL you probably dislike him bc if he had been healthy for the whole Laker series you guys would not have your ring
Except for the fact the Rockets have a BETTER record against the Laker team w/o Yao Ming, and add to the fact they played better in the series when Ming left.

[Juges8932]

Yeah So It's clear you are an idiot. Stick to the Bulls, I'm sure that thug Derrick Rose will bring you something. Oh wait. :violin:

You can get lost now, because It's obvious you don't watch any games outside of your Bulls.

You obviously don't watch Derrick Rose and have never heard him speak or seen any interviews with him if you think he's a "thug." That is ignorance at its finest.

[indiefan23]

I think this was the year people saying he was too old actually came true. He's not up there anymore. Heh, unless he goes to Phoenix.

Yao can't get on that list because having a glass injury jaw makes you a weak player. He's been surpassed by Dwight as Yao has unfortunately albatrossed his team 3 years in a row. Yao is limited if the best defensive rank his team can get is 4'th when he's got the best defenders in the league on his team. Conversely Dwight has the worst defenders in the league on his team and te magic have the best defense. If Dwight was on Houston instead of Yao, the Rockets would be champs right now and you even know it. So Dwight >> Yao.

[utahjazzrock]

Sorry to stur up this Howard/Yao debate but I would take Howard over Ming. Sorry RocketsGreatness.
Dwights athletisicm is unbeleiveable. He's an incredible shotblocker, dunker, rebounder, drives to the hoop better and finishes down low. He bests Yao in all those categories.
However, Yao is more fundamentally sound, clearly a better outside shooter, and passing is arguable but Yao is mos likely the better player when it comes down to this.

Here are stats for comparison. They are of the 08-09 season:
Yao: 19.7 ppg/9.9 rpg/1.8 apg/0.4 spg/1.9 bpg/83% FT/52% FG
Howad:20.7 ppg/13.9 rpg/1.4 apg/1.0 spg/2.9 bpg/60% FT/57% FG

Now stats dont tell everything but Howard did beat Yao in all but 2 categories.
Howard seems to be tougher and better posts moves as well.

To me in summary, Dwights defense and athletisicm blows Yao away. Yao dominates Howard in aspects of his shot, fundamentals and slightly better offense

So anyways here is my list.

1.Kobe
2.Lebron
3.Wade
4.Paul
5.Howard
6.Yao
7.Duncan
8.Dirk(He and Kevin Garnett's stats are very similar and he had a great season. KG being injured 25 regular season games+postseasn doesnt help him.)
9.Melo
10.KG
Honorable Mention: Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Paul Pierce

[utahjazzrock]

Well Dwight's post moves consist of maybe backing the defender down then turning on him or maye a jab step, resulting in a dunk.
Yao's post is effective because he can fake the defender better, get an extra step on him then fnish with that nice baby hook.

[ChuckOakley]

My List

1. LBJ - didn't have the team to win it all, but has the best game.
2. Kobe - Older and wiser, but still got leapfrogged by LBJ over the past year or so
3. Wade - Showed he could stay healthy this year and produced amazing #'s
4. Paul - Also posted amazing #'s and led his team to 50+ wins in the West
5. D.Williams - Kept Utah in the playoffs all season despite the injuries
6. Howard - DPOY, made the finals, still young and improving like his team
7. Dirk - Still a great player but not MVP calibur
8. Roy - Great leader, intangibles and overall game.
9. Yao - Could have been a top 5 player most of his career if not for injuries that cannot be ignored
10. TD - Sorry TD, but age caught up to you this year. Neither your O nor D were dominant.

H.M.
KG - Sorry KG, but age caught up to you this year. Neither your O nor D were dominant.
Anthony - Until the defense improves, it doesn't make up for the offense.
Gasol - The Finals reminded us just how skilled he is.
Durant - Next year he will be top 10

[Lakers13]

I'd prob say

1. Kobe\LeBron
3. Wade
4. CP3
5. Dirk
6. Melo
7. Duncan
8. Roy
9. Yao
10. Dwight

[Snoop_Cat]

And second, I'm sick of all this Yao is the greatest center ever* crap.

*(WHEN HEALTHY)

Eventually you have to begin to factor it into the equation if a player is extremely injury prone. Injuries are part of the game and happen to players occasionally. But if a player gets hurt every other damn day, it is stupid to continue to give him a free pass and act like it is just some fluke occurence. Accept it as part of who he is as a player and take it into account when you factor it into his ratings.

I completely agree with you. What's the point in fantasizing about healthy Yao?
If it was the occasional back spasm, then sure, why not let it go, but the fact is that Yao is NEVER healthy, and even if he is, he gets injured when the team needs him the most. This is reality, not some hypothetical bullsh!t.

I might as well say, IF HE NEVER GOT AIDS AND RETIRED EARLY, Magic Johnson would be the GOAT.
The fact of the matter is, Yao's never healthy, Dwight is almost always healthy, and puts up better stats than Yao.
Given the circumstances and avoiding this "healthy" Yao, Duncan, KG crap, most teams wouldn't take Yao in the first 15 or maybe even the first 20 if they had an "every player available" draft.

Please show me some rational argument why Yao is a top 10 player in the NBA without all that "when healthy" bullsh!t.

[Copperhead]

Well in my opinion, Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA by a small margin and the only reason why I say this is because he led that pathetic Hornets team to the playoffs. Honestly, the Jazz minus D-Will are a lot more talented than the Hornets Minus Chris Paul. The Jazz would probably miss the playoffs but get 9th seed or something, while the Hornets would be contending with the Sacramento Kings for the worst the team in the NBA.

I will say this though, in the 07-08 season, I had said D-Will was better until the end of the 08 playoffs because Chris Paul really emerged then.


:confusedshrug:

Was the 08 playoffs the first time you had seen Chris Paul or something? :oldlol: Heading into the playoffs he had just had one of the best seasons ever by a point guard which is why he was in a tight MVP race. Players don't get into tight MVP races by emerging only in the playoffs. He had a fantastic 07-08 regular season. Not just 08 playoffs. Yes, Deron and the Jazz outplayed Paul and the Hornets but really, there wasn't much of anything Deron was doing better than Paul that season. Was it heading into the 07-08 season you said Deron was better? Because really, if you were watching, pretty much for the entire 07-08 season, Paul was better. People were giving him the "best point guard" title before the playoffs. The playoffs just kind of made it stick a little more.

[Darkwing Duck]

You have Deron Williams on that list, but not Brandon Roy or Melo Anthony?

You are high my friend

[RocketGreatness]

:confusedshrug:

Was the 08 playoffs the first time you had seen Chris Paul or something? :oldlol: Heading into the playoffs he had just had one of the best seasons ever by a point guard which is why he was in a tight MVP race. Players don't get into tight MVP races by emerging only in the playoffs. He had a fantastic 07-08 regular season. Not just 08 playoffs. Yes, Deron and the Jazz outplayed Paul and the Hornets but really, there wasn't much of anything Deron was doing better than Paul that season. Was it heading into the 07-08 season you said Deron was better? Because really, if you were watching, pretty much for the entire 07-08 season, Paul was better. People were giving him the "best point guard" title before the playoffs. The playoffs just kind of made it stick a little more.
Well what's more important the playoffs or the regular season? We've seen guys play below their standards in the playoffs and play hall of fame worthy in the regular season. Example: Karl Malone.

But all said and done, Deron dominated the 07 playoffs and led his team to the WCF. Regardless, I still consider Chris Paul the better player right now. Paul was probably more rather of the MVP than Kobe, but I had no problem with either of them winning it. and Yes I meant heading into the 07-08 season Deron was better and I still had Deron being considered better until the 08 playoffs. Then Chris Paul was considered the best PG in the NBA to me.

[Copperhead]

Well what's more important the playoffs or the regular season? We've seen guys play below their standards in the playoffs and play hall of fame worthy in the regular season. Example: Karl Malone.

But all said and done, Deron dominated the 07 playoffs and led his team to the WCF. Regardless, I still consider Chris Paul the better player right now. Paul was probably more rather of the MVP than Kobe, but I had no problem with either of them winning it. and Yes I meant heading into the 07-08 season Deron was better and I still had Deron being considered better until the 08 playoffs. Then Chris Paul was considered the best PG in the NBA to me.

I hear ya. :cheers:

[JayJay23]

Basically all of our lists are going to be the same (except that idiot that had 25 players listed better than Kobe)

LeBron
Wade
Kobe
CP3
Howard
Dirk
Roy
Duncan
Melo
Yao

I think it is obvious between the top 3, but basically 4-10 is hard. The top three is basically interchangable, but LeBron for now is at the top.
Thats probably my list exactly, although i might have derron williams sneaking in.

[ChuckOakley]

So Yao is #5 if he was healthy? or....:confusedshrug:

If healthy throughout his prime then yes he could have been a top 5 player, but because he never was healthy for an extended period he never was. Now, he is approaching 30 years old and been playing professionally in the NBA and internationally as well as Olympics for most of his life. He's also suffered from numerous injuries over the course of his NBA career that have forced him to miss time and slow him down.

It is what it is. If Yao's injuries were isolated or not problematic you could throw out the if healthy card, but unforunately they are a very much a part of who he is. They have slowed him town, forced him to miss time and have taken away from the player he could have been and made him who he is now.

Right now there is no case for Yao being better than Dwight. The numbers support Dwight (ppg, rpg, bpg, spg, fg%, games played, minutes played, team success, defense, athleticism, age, health) The only tangible advantages Yao has are in FT%, APG, outside shot and post moves. Despite the offensive advantages Yao should have, his offensive #'s of PPG and FG% still fall short of Dwight's.

To say if healthy with Yao is to say if healthy with T-Mac, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, etc. Players are a results of what they have produced over the course of time. They are not judged by isolated stretches of greatness, rather what they have produced on average over time.

[KubiliusF]

1. Kobe Bryant.
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2009/06/14/bryantx.jpg
-Hate him or love him, He's the best player in the world still. Eventually King James and D. Wade will surpass him, but right now It's Kobe is the king of the league until further notice. You may have been impressed with LeBron being the league MVP, but Kobe earned his 4th championship ring and was named the Finals MVP this year. He led that Laker team to the top of the mountain, there are no excuses. He's one of the best man to man defenders in the game, and also one of the most underrated passers today as well. He is the best scorer and most polished scorer in the league, no player can stop him, he can only miss shots.

2. LeBron James
http://bettorsedge.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lebron-james6.jpg
-Can easily be argued as the best player in the world, but is 2nd in my list. Was the league's MVP, and led the Cavs to the best record in the NBA. He did all he could in the 2009 Playoffs to get that team to the Finals, but he was the only player that showed up. Mo Williams shrunk in the spotlight, Big Z shrunk and so did Delonte West. Sadly, he is playing with a bunch of tomato cans. Once he develops some more polish in his scoring game, he will be the best player in the world by a country mile but he will also need some hardware to make a name for himself for the all-time. He is easily the most underrated passer in the league, a bit overrated defensively but is amazing in reading the passing lanes and chasing down fast breaks. It takes a complete team defense to shut LeBron James down. His jump shot is improving, but it's not in Kobe's level yet.

3. Dwyane Wade
http://blog.newsok.com/gossip/files/2009/01/dwyane-wade.jpg
-Pretty much isolated at that 3rd spot. Had the worst playoff run between LeBron James and Kobe Bryant, but had a hell of a regular season. There would be no doubt in anyone's mind that if the MVP voting was the way it was in the 80s or 90s he would have been the MVP. He single handily led that Heat team to the 5th seed to the playoffs. Although, some of his teammates like Mario Chalmers deserve some credit, there's no doubt the majority of it goes to Dwyane Wade. He dominated the stat sheet and had dominant games where he led them to victories. No doubt the 3rd best player in the world.

4. Chris Paul
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/03/chris_paul_2.jpg
-Was the most overlooked candidate for the MVP of the 08-09 season. Had also finished 2nd place in the 07-08 MVP voting and had a strong argument for the MVP. He has arguably the best stats in the NBA, He led that Pathetic Hornets team to the playoffs by himself. That alone should be considered an accomplishment by the way. He's the best point guard in the NBA with Deron Williams right behind him, but Chris Paul is the 4th best player in the NBA HANDS DOWN.

5. Tim Duncan
http://www.nba.com/media/act_tim_duncan.jpg
-The Greatest power forward of all-time is still a Top 5 player in the game today. When healthy that is. He had been injured frequently and was not a 100% after the all-star break. However in the beginning of the season he was a valuable candidate for the MVP was averaging 20/10/2. Injuries started nagging him later on and Tony Parker started emerging due to Tim Duncan's unselfish play. He's still the best big man in the game and is the 5th best player in basketball.

6. Yao Ming
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/fantasy/03/05/fantasy.lab/t1_yao_si.jpg
-He's the best center in the league hands down when healthy. Which would be his biggest problem, staying on the floor. However, we cannot deny anything he does when he is on there. People don't realize that he did stay healthy all of regular season, he got hurt at probably the worst time possible. Luckily he'll have his 1st legit off-season of his NBA career now. But all said and done, Yao was an overlooked candidate just like Chris Paul was this year. Yao may not have dominated the stat sheet like he did, but he certainly led that Rocket team to loads of wins. He got past the 1st round this year without the so-called star Tracy McGrady in 12 years for this Rocket franchise. Yao is the best offensive center in the game by a Country mile, He has all the moves, vastly underrated defensively and rebounding wise, and There is no way any player can guard Yao from playing behind him, you can only front him. He's the 6th best player in the NBA and the 2nd best big man in the game behind Tim Duncan.

7. Dwight Howard
http://ngepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dwight-howard.jpg
-The 2nd best center in basketball Dwight "Superman" Howard. He's the hands down best rebounder and shot blocker in the game. However offensively? Still needs lots of work. We all know he is superman on the defensive side and is the best defensive center in the game, but the offensive side, he's almost your average joe. There's no question he can easily be the best center to ever play the game once he develops a serious offensive game, but that is the question today. Will he ever be that good on offense? I cannot answer that because I am not a fortune teller, but I can tell you is that he's an elite superstar player in the NBA today and has loads of potential at the age of 23. It will only be time when people are saying who's going to be the next Dwight instead of the next Shaq.



8. Kevin Garnett
http://www.as.com/recorte/20080125dasdasbal_1/C280/Ies/Kevin_Garnett.jpg

-One of the greatest power forwards to ever play the game and one of the most unselfish stars today Kevin Garnett ranked at 8th place. He is the anchor of the best defensive team in the NBA, without him they are just slightly above average on that end. He does not dominant the stat sheet anymore like he did in Minnesota. However, he does dominant the most important stat called the wins now. Kevin Garnett's greatness has always been his unselfishness and defensive intensity. He brings that today, although he was injured all playoffs long there is no doubt in my mind next season the Celtics will give every single team in the East their run for their money in the playoffs.


9. Dirk Nowitzki
http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A8925/89251/300_89251.jpg
-The 2006-2007 NBA MVP Dirk Nowitzki is the 9th best player in the NBA. He is the best scoring big man in the league by a complete mile and he is the best offensive big man in the game and he is offensively versatility is incredible. He is easily the most underrated player of this decade. People have forgotten just a few years ago he led the Mavericks to the Finals with no all-stars. He has declined a bit since then, however the biggest problem with his game is that he does not impact the game much outside of scoring. There's no denying what he can do scoring wise, but I am looking a bit more. I do not expect him to change his game much in the future, but He is not the scorer he was a few years ago, in terms of efficiency that is.

10. Deron Williams
http://www.totalprosports.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/deronwilliams.jpg
-(This is a very tough one, but I gotta go with D-Will.) Arguably the best PG in the NBA right now. Should've been an multiple all-star by now but I feel sorry for D-Will that it hasn't happened yet. He has led the Jazz to the playoffs for a couple of years in a row now. People underrate him due to his lack of stats, but people don't realize that's just how Jerry Sloan's system sometimes works. It's a restricted system, It's not a free flowing system like Chris Paul's Hornets. He is over-looked and was over looked this year because of the Jazz's record and also because Deron Williams himself was also injured a lot during the season along with Carlos Boozer. But I have to give the edge to Deron Williams. He's starting to become one of the leagues most underrated players.

P.S - (The 10th spot was very hard for me to choose but the other guys I was thinking of was Paul Pierce, Brandon Roy, Chauncey Billups and Carmelo Anthony. )

Best Players in NBA not the world.

[NBASTATMAN]

Brandon Roy should be higher than Williams and Dirk imo. Agreed with the rest, though I'd put Wade at #2 instead of Lebron.


I put lebron at one, Kobe and wade tied for second..

[raptorfan_dr07]

I can see the argument for Yao over Dwight(although I don't agree), but over KG and Dirk? :wtf:

[D-Rose]

I have no problem with Dirk over KG, I just think KG can impact the game far more and Dirk has declined scoring wise in terms of efficiency if you read my post. Dirk is a sub-par defender and a rebounder, while KG is elite on those areas.
That's not what he meant.

He meant he doesn't get why you put Yao over KG/Dirk.

[D-Rose]

I don't get it, you honestly still think KG and Dirk are still better than Yao and Dwight? They've declined you Idiot Bosh fan.
Dirk declined? how so?

[Nets fan 93]

Dirk and KG have not declined... Do you think that because of their age? Age has not really been an issue for either player yet. KG and Dirk>Yao

KG just has a bit more help...
Dirk is still a top5 scorer and a really great player

[Dave3]

:roll: I've seen you post, You are a joke. It doesn't matter what you think. You have a personal agenda against Yao.
Don't you think it's a bit unusual that somehow EVERYONE has a vendetta against Yao and some miraculous way you're the only one able to see how good he is? Don't you think it's a bit unlikely that EVERYONE is wrong and you're the only human being that's right? Add in the fact that you're so hostile to anyone who disagrees with you(which is a lot of people) telling them they have no minds or don't deserve opinions, it really makes YOU look like the individual with the agenda.

[Dave3]

You can go look at the 1st 3-4 pages because People have agreed with me you idiot.
I know people have agreed with you, that doesn't make the many people that disagree "morons" or "idiots". You're stating opinions, not facts. To say Howard is better than Yao is very arguable and most people would probably agree with it anyways. Again, when you're so hostile, you're the one that looks like he has an agenda/are a homer.

[henbus33]

I know people have agreed with you, that doesn't make the many people that disagree "morons" or "idiots". You're stating opinions, not facts. To say Howard is better than Yao is very arguable and most people would probably agree with it anyways. Again, when you're so hostile, you're the one that looks like he has an agenda/are a homer.

ok then im going to never disagree with this guy ever because i dont want to be called a moron/idiot.

[D-Rose]

You can go look at their stats, Dirk has declined in terms of scoring efficiency, KG has in terms declined athletic ability as well. Yao>Dwight, So I don't care.
Dirk just had his second best season in PPG on a similar FG%.

[GiveItToBurrito]

I think that Yao over KG and Dirk is pretty reasonable. Dirk's a marginally better offensive player and KG's a sort of better defender (KG at actual defense, Yao at being a giant who no one wants to try to shoot over) but that Yao's a better complete player. After the consensus top three in the league, CP3, and maybe Dwight, Yao can conceivably be called the best in the league when he's healthy.

Also, before anyone really goes into detail on Dirk's stats, I think that they were greatly affected by Kidd being around. I don't think it's really that significant as far as his individual talent that he had a higher usage rate and fewer assists this year, or that his true shooting percentage declined a bit. I think that he's declining pretty gracefully (if you even really want to go so far as to call it a decline) and will continue to do so unless he shrinks or forgets to shoot (which, actually, a back or knee injury would do). Last year wasn't even one of Dirk's best seasons, but he's still easily one of the best players in the league. I actually think he was underrated for a while, too, and that he was the best in the league the year he won the mvp.

[RocketGreatness]

I think that Yao over KG and Dirk is pretty reasonable. Dirk's a marginally better offensive player and KG's a sort of better defender (KG at actual defense, Yao at being a giant who no one wants to try to shoot over) but that Yao's a better complete player. After the consensus top three in the league, CP3, and maybe Dwight, Yao can conceivably be called the best in the league when he's healthy.

Also, before anyone really goes into detail on Dirk's stats, I think that they were greatly affected by Kidd being around. I don't think it's really that significant as far as his individual talent that he had a higher usage rate and fewer assists this year, or that his true shooting percentage declined a bit. I think that he's declining pretty gracefully (if you even really want to go so far as to call it a decline) and will continue to do so unless he shrinks or forgets to shoot (which, actually, a back or knee injury would do).
Excellent post, This is why you're one of the more smart posters here. :applause:

I think Duncan is still a Top 5 player in the NBA, It might because of all the respect I have for him during his prime days and what he has accomplished but if you ask me when healthy he's still better than both Yao and Dwight. Not to mention, I don't want to sound like to big of a homer putting Yao at 5th.

That 10th spot is where I had the biggest question because It's so hard comparing about 5 players there. As I said in the bottom of my very 1st post.

It was a debate between: Brandon Roy, Paul Pierce, Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups and Deron Williams. I think B-Roy and Pierce would have been the easiest to argue for me that is. Then Deron, Billups and Melo. I just wanted to throw out D-Will's name because he is so forgotten because of the Jazz under-achieving this season.

[Mr Know It All]

Yao>Dwight get it right, Idiot.

Yeah you are right, because players who won an award 2-3 years ago CAN'T DECLINE. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised if you are actually Chris Bosh himself, but Chris Bosh loves to suck on Dwight's balls and hate on Yao's. You are an idiot, and you are 3..2...1..seconds away from joining my ignore list. IT's clear that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and I doubt you ever played basketball in your lifetime, regardless. Welcome to my ignore list tool . BY the way you idiot canadian ,people have already agreed with me.

Why don't you tell me what the **** Yao Ming has done in his career? Other than consistently face injury problems and manage to squeeze into the second round once. Dwight Howard was the defensive player of the year and the best player on a finals team, that to me warrants him as the best center in the NBA. You can ride Yao Ming's dick all day but it doesn't change the facts, so just shutup and get off this board if you don't want to hear other opinions.

[depletedW]

I don't get it, you honestly still think KG and Dirk are still better than Yao and Dwight? They've declined you Idiot Bosh fan.
If you honestly and adamantly believe that yao > Dirk and Garnett then you are too far gone in your stupidity/ bias for me to actually waste my time debating your dumbass.

[nbastatus]

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
CP3
KG
Tim
Dirk
Yao
Dwight
Deron

[nbastatus]

I think our entire rant should be deleted, because you are just killing my thread with your idiocy. So please just leave for my sake and your own.


I can agree with this, this was actually similar to my list last season except Kg and Duncan flipped and Kobe and LeBron flipped as well. :cheers:

I also had CP3 had 3rd, probably because we didn't see how good D. Wade and plus his team had the worst record.
that's true, but this season wade is better than CP3.

[Roundball_Rock]

My top 10

1) Wade
2) Lebron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Deron
7) Yao
8) Howard
9) KG
10) Amare

People forget what Amare was doing in 2008. He ended the year averaging 25/9 with 2 blocks per game. He was 5th in scoring. What is more revealing of his potential is what he did after the all-star break 28.5 ppg on 59% shooting. His stats fell in 2009 but that was because of the new Porter/Kerr Shaq-oriented offense. With the SSOL back he should return to his 2008/2005 production. He missed all of 2006 other than 3 games and 2007 was a recovery year for the type of injury he had. 2005 and 2008 are the real Amare.


Why don't you tell me what the **** Yao Ming has done in his career? Other than consistently face injury problems and manage to squeeze into the second round once. Dwight Howard was the defensive player of the year and the best player on a finals team, that to me warrants him as the best center in the NBA.

The problems with Howard's game were revealed in the finals. Yao would not have missed two clutch free throws that cost Orlando any chance in the series and Howard's lack of any true post moves, inability to shoot rendered him less effective than he should have been.

Yao averaged 20/11/1/1 against the Lakers on 51% FG shooting and 88% FT shooting.

Howard averaged 15/15//2/4 on 49% FG shooting and 60% FT shooting against LA.

The problem with Howard is that he has huge holes in his game that teams with good interior defense can exploit. I do think Howard is a top 10 player in the league but until he develops a shot and some moves he will remain the second best center in the league.

[Meticode]

My top 10

1) Wade
2) Lebron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Deron
7) Yao
8) Howard
9) KG
10) Amare

I triple-read this just to make sure, but did you purposely leave Chris Paul off the list?

[Roundball_Rock]

No, my mistake. Corrected:

1) Wade
2) Lebron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Deron
7) Paul
8) Yao
9) Howard
10) KG

Honorable mention: Amare, Carmelo, Roy

[Meticode]

No, my mistake. Corrected:

1) Wade
2) Lebron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Deron
7) Paul
8) Yao
9) Howard
10) KG

11) Amare

Very differeny list. Props on being original.

[Lebron23]

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Deron Williams
9. Amare Stoudemire
10. Yao Ming

[RocketGreatness]

People forget what Amare was doing in 2008. He ended the year averaging 25/9 with 2 blocks per game. He was 5th in scoring. What is more revealing of his potential is what he did after the all-star break 28.5 ppg on 59% shooting. His stats fell in 2009 but that was because of the new Porter/Kerr Shaq-oriented offense. With the SSOL back he should return to his 2008/2005 production. He missed all of 2006 other than 3 games and 2007 was a recovery year for the type of injury he had. 2005 and 2008 are the real Amare.
Well that was because of the Mike D Run and Gun System. He was heavily exposed this year but he's still a Top 5 Power Forward in the NBA. I never really considered him a Top 10 player anyways. I always put him in the Top 15, not sure if he's still there.

But I do like your list, My only problem is you don't have Chris Paul on there he should be there to replace Deron Williams and that's about it If you ask me. I have no problem with Dirk or Duncan ahead of him, CP3 just has to be on that list.


1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Deron Williams
9. Amare Stoudemire
10. Yao Ming
:roll: Amare ahead of Yao? Ok stick to your Cavs, because It's clear you know nothing after that.

[Meticode]

:roll: Amare ahead of Yao? Ok stick to your Cavs, because It's clear you know nothing after that.

All these lists are subject to opinion. It's not like he's putting Kyle Korver on the list. No need to cut someone down about how they feel.

[Roundball_Rock]

Very differeny list. Props on being original.

Thanks, I can be called a lot of things but I cannot be called orthodox in my views when it comes to basketball. :oldlol:


But I do like your list, My only problem is you don't have Chris Paul on there he should be there to replace Deron Williams and that's about it If you ask me. I have no problem with Dirk or Duncan ahead of him, CP3 just has to be on that list.

Yeah, I forgot about him. I put him 7th behind Williams because I consider Williams the best PG. Paul's stats are inflated because of NO's offense.


Well that was because of the Mike D Run and Gun System.

That was part of it. The fast pace of the SSOL generated extra points for him but his scoring was deflated this year because of the Porter/Kerr insistence on making Shaq the focal point of the offense. I don't think Amare is truly in the Wade, Lebron, Kobe league when it comes to scoring at this point but I would not be surprised if he put up a ppg next season that is on par with this trio due to the SSOL's pace. Phoenix's scoring increased from 104.4 ppg with Porter to 117.7 under Gentry and this was without Amare. With Amare they could have averaged 120 ppg.

[plowking]

No, my mistake. Corrected:

1) Wade
2) Lebron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Deron
7) Paul
8) Yao
9) Howard
10) KG

Honorable mention: Amare, Carmelo, Roy

Wow, I'm not going to lie, that's a decent list.

The only thing I would do is switch Duncan with Howard. Duncan was and still is great, but he's not as effective as Dwight on the court, and the main area it's showing through is his defense. He's still great on offense though.

[plowking]

Another thing I noticed is that Dirk is very underrated. The guy has been the best PF in the league for about 3 years. Furthermore he's not too far off Wade, Lebron and Kobe.

[Drinker]

not even one of you has considered Gasol top 10 but you add guys as Amare...

I'm not at all a Kobe lover (I am spaniard) but for all those kobe haters you basically giving him credit to win the ring alone with not another "top 10" playing with him.

funny... and please keep underrating gasol, that will always help him to play better as less focus on him like every single year :)


Edit: even more. tell me ANY players in the NBA that plays PF that good (when asked) WHILE playing center that good (when asked). versatibily shoudl be a huge plus for anyone consider top 10

[Bigsmoke]

KG > Yao

[Bigsmoke]

Lebron
Wade
Kobe
Timmy
KG
CP3
Dirk
Yao
D12
Pau Gasol

[Bigsmoke]

Nice logic, Oh wait you are an idiot. Go explain things before posting here again or you are no better than plowking

KG uplifts teams in many aspect.. some ways i dont think Yao can. We should all know that KG is the reason by Perkins is the man that he is today. Yao is a great player but on defense he can be a bit too slow. KG do not really have a weakness in his defensive game. You notice that the Celtics were the best defensive team during the 2008 season?

[RocketGreatness]

KG uplifts teams in many aspect.. some ways i dont think Yao can. We should all know that KG is the reason by Perkins is the man that he is today. Yao is a great player but on defense he can be a bit too slow. KG do not really have a weakness in his defensive game. You notice that the Celtics were the best defensive team during the 2008 season?
Yes, however he has declined and was never really a big time scorer to be honest. That's why I also have Dwight ahead of him at this point. KG brings a lot of things that don't show in the stat sheet. However, his athletic ability has declined rapidly and you can tell with his decline of RPG over the years. I have no problem with KG and Dirk over Yao and Dwight, but that's just me.

[Bigsmoke]

Yes, however he has declined and was never really a big time scorer to be honest. That's why I also have Dwight ahead of him at this point. KG brings a lot of things that don't show in the stat sheet. However, his athletic ability has declined rapidly and you can tell with his decline of RPG over the years. I have no problem with KG and Dirk over Yao and Dwight, but that's just me.

Pierce and Allen stats declined too though.

it not because they fell off of nowhere. They have talent and none of them have to do as much effort to win.

so pretty much... KG declined his stats to win a championship

he wins :hammertime:

[plowking]

:oldlol: @ this Wade-Fan boy trying to contribute in all my of threads now.


That wasn't hard was it? :cheers:

Do you ever stop thinking about me?

[chains5000]

Do you ever stop thinking about me?
Only when he thinks about a healthy Yao.

[plowking]

Only when he thinks about a healthy Yao.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/buzzerbeater/luolz.jpg

[Glo41]

KG has declined so much that that I'm not sure why he's even on the top 10 on everyone's list. You are NOT in the top 10 if you are not even close to the 1st option on your team. Hell, he's arguably the 3rd option sometimes.

And I would NEVER take Yao over any of these guys even when healthy. Heck I'd take a bunch of other players over him still. What's up with the Yao overrating? Dude only had a couple of good games in the playoffs and a LOT of completely absent games.

Can't wait to be insulted and put on RocketGreatness's ignore list.

[A.M.G.]

:roll: Well, a bunch of my posts were mysteriously deleted, I guess because I hurt RocketGreatness' sensitive feelings by asking for some explanation of how Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard, or Dirk Nowitski, or even KG which he probably could have made an argument for.

Seriously, why would I be so mean to such a nice, polite guy? Shame on me for trying to get a reasonable answer out of somebody. It's perfectly normal for someone to make a thread and then viciously attack anyone and everyone who disagrees with it's content.




Anyways, I will reiterate my basic position.


RocketGreatness, you made this thread ranking Yao "Mr. Glass" Ming as the #6 player in the NBA,

ranking Yao ahead of Dwight Howard, this year's Defensive Player of the Year who just led his team to the Finals, CLEARLY the best center in the NBA,

ahead of Kevin Garnett, last year's Defensive Player of the Year, led his team to an NBA Championship last year, and a former MVP,

and ahead of Dirk Nowitski, a former MVP, currently the best offensive big man in the NBA, who has led his team to the Finals not too long ago.

All of this in your desperate, counter-intuitive attempt to prop up Yao Ming, a player who has advanced out of the first round once in his entire career, and is a constant injury risk who has proven himself to not be durable over the past few post-seasons. You do these mental gymnastics, like telling yourself that pervasive injuries and lack of career accomplishments have nothing to do with were a player should be ranked.

I'm not saying Yao Ming isn't a very good player when healthy, but Dwight, KG, and Dirk are BETTER. Objectively, I can say that. KG is the only one who has declined.

If your only response to rational arguments is to insult people, well then you should just not bother making threads. Because most people will disagree with you every time, and you will just embarrass yourself by insulting everyone like a little kid. If you can't debate like a normal human being, you don't belong here.

[depletedW]

:roll: Well, a bunch of my posts were mysteriously deleted, I guess because I hurt RocketGreatness' sensitive feelings by asking for some explanation of how Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard, or Dirk Nowitski, or even KG which he probably could have made an argument for.

Seriously, why would I be so mean to such a nice, polite guy? Shame on me for trying to get a reasonable answer out of somebody. It's perfectly normal for someone to make a thread and then viciously attack anyone and everyone who disagrees with it's content.




Anyways, I will reiterate my basic position.


RocketGreatness, you made this thread ranking Yao "Mr. Glass" Ming as the #6 player in the NBA,

ranking Yao ahead of Dwight Howard, this year's Defensive Player of the Year who just led his team to the Finals, CLEARLY the best center in the NBA,

ahead of Kevin Garnett, last year's Defensive Player of the Year, led his team to an NBA Championship last year, and a former MVP,

and ahead of Dirk Nowitski, a former MVP, currently the best offensive big man in the NBA, who has led his team to the Finals not too long ago.

All of this in your desperate, counter-intuitive attempt to prop up Yao Ming, a player who has advanced out of the first round once in his entire career, and is a constant injury risk who has proven himself to not be durable over the past few post-seasons. You do these mental gymnastics, like telling yourself that pervasive injuries and lack of career accomplishments have nothing to do with were a player should be ranked.

I'm not saying Yao Ming isn't a very good player when healthy, but Dwight, KG, and Dirk are BETTER. Objectively, I can say that. KG is the only one who has declined.

If your only response to rational arguments is to insult people, well then you should just not bother making threads. Because most people will disagree with you every time, and you will just embarrass yourself by insulting everyone like a little kid. If you can't debate like a normal human being, you don't belong here.

^:applause:


Yao has only been out of the first round once, and you want to rank him ahead of 3 players who have been to the Finals, and two of them being MVP's?

Why do you give him a free passs on this? Oh yeah, the go-to excuse for Yao fans- injuries.

When it comes to Yao, you have to factor in the fact that he is incredibly injury-prone into your rankings. He doesn't get hurt every now-and-then like most players, more like every other day. You have to accept that as part of who he is as a player. Rank players on how they play/are in reality, not how they would play in your fantasy world where Yao is never hurt, and there's unicorns and mountains made of gumdrops.

He is a good player, but you are letting your Rocket's bias/agenda prop him up way too much.

[NBASTATMAN]

No, my mistake. Corrected:

1) Wade
2) Lebron
3) Kobe
4) Dirk
5) Duncan
6) Deron
7) Paul
8) Yao
9) Howard
10) KG

Honorable mention: Amare, Carmelo, Roy


this may be one of the better lists put on this board.. WADE IS THE MAN

MY LIST

WADE
LEBRON
KOBE
DUNCAN
KG
DIRK
CP3
HOWARD
GASOL
BILLUPS

YAO is not on my list because he is often injured.. You cannot win a title with a guy that is injured come playoff time every year.. GASOL deserves respect.. He puts up great numbers and barely gets to touch the ball. His passing and defense are very underrated and he made the lakers go from 40 wins to over 60... GASOL is a top ten player... MAGIC Johnson also commented on this...

[Jacks3]

1.Kobe
2.Bron
3.Wade
4.CP3
5.Duncan
6.Howard
7.KG
8.Dirk
9.Roy
10.Deron

LOL at Gasol being a top 10 player.:roll:

[NBASTATMAN]

1.Kobe
2.Bron
3.Wade
4.CP3
5.Duncan
6.Howard
7.KG
8.Dirk
9.Roy
10.Deron

LOL at Gasol being a top 10 player.:roll:


I take Gasol over ROY or Deron.. Deron is very nice and one of the most skilled players in the game.. But he doesn't play defense.. Roy has not proved himself yet... GASOL is coming off a great playoff year plus he did a great job on DHoward.. Gasol is a top ten player... MAGIC JOHNSON AGREES... I will listen to MAGIC before I listen to you...:lol

[chains5000]

1.Kobe
2.Bron
3.Wade
4.CP3
5.Duncan
6.Howard
7.KG
8.Dirk
9.Roy
10.Deron

LOL at Gasol being a top 10 player.:roll:
Well, he was player of the month of February (I think). That means he's among the league's best players.
Not clearly in the top 10 but it's arguable.

[NBASTATMAN]

Well, he was player of the month of February (I think). That means he's among the league's best players.
Not clearly in the top 10 but it's arguable.


Yes he won Feb.. Plus was top 5 in WIN SHARES... Plus he played great in the playoffs.. He shut down DHoward.. He also played great offensively..

[blinp]

^:applause:


Yao has only been out of the first round once, and you want to rank him ahead of 3 players who have been to the Finals, and two of them being MVP's?

Why do you give him a free passs on this? Oh yeah, the go-to excuse for Yao fans- injuries.

When it comes to Yao, you have to factor in the fact that he is incredibly injury-prone into your rankings. He doesn't get hurt every now-and-then like most players, more like every other day. You have to accept that as part of who he is as a player. Rank players on how they play/are in reality, not how they would play in your fantasy world where Yao is never hurt, and there's unicorns and mountains made of gumdrops.

He is a good player, but you are letting your Rocket's bias/agenda prop him up way too much.
Unless D. Howard stopped getting owned by Yao, I'll still say Yao=(arguably ">") Howard.
And Orlando's success in the playoff is mostly contributed with their 3's, IMHO.

[depletedW]

Unless D. Howard stopped getting owned by Yao, I'll still say Yao=(arguably ">") Howard.
And Orlando's success in the playoff is mostly contributed with their 3's, IMHO.
You could possibly make a case for Yao > Howard based on the reasons you just listed. Yao is more refined offensively, but Howard does have a higher ceiling, plays better defense and stays on the floor more than Yao. I'd still take Howard.

But to say Yao > Dirk, Garnett is absurdity/homerism at its finest.

[RocketGreatness]

Yes...the rest of your list looks good to me.

Brandon Roy should be higher than Williams and Dirk imo. Agreed with the rest, though I'd put Wade at #2 instead of Lebron.

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Dirk
Duncan
CP3
Yao
Howard
Melo
Roy
Top 3 are set.All others can be changed around but still all the same.

wow i am completely and utterly astonished ish didn't go ape$hit over duncan not being in the top 3. i think kg is too high. i'd rather have melo or b roy over him anyday. good list though

Personally I'd move Garnett to 10, Deron to 8, and swap Yao and Duncan. Maybe even drop Paul.

I cant really argue anything on that list. It does indeed look about right.
:applause: :banana: :pimp:


:roll: Well, a bunch of my posts were mysteriously deleted, I guess because I hurt RocketGreatness' sensitive feelings by asking for some explanation of how Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard, or Dirk Nowitski, or even KG which he probably could have made an argument for.

Seriously, why would I be so mean to such a nice, polite guy? Shame on me for trying to get a reasonable answer out of somebody. It's perfectly normal for someone to make a thread and then viciously attack anyone and everyone who disagrees with it's content.

Anyways, I will reiterate my basic position.


RocketGreatness, you made this thread ranking Yao "Mr. Glass" Ming as the #6 player in the NBA,

ranking Yao ahead of Dwight Howard, this year's Defensive Player of the Year who just led his team to the Finals, CLEARLY the best center in the NBA,

ahead of Kevin Garnett, last year's Defensive Player of the Year, led his team to an NBA Championship last year, and a former MVP,

and ahead of Dirk Nowitski, a former MVP, currently the best offensive big man in the NBA, who has led his team to the Finals not too long ago.

All of this in your desperate, counter-intuitive attempt to prop up Yao Ming, a player who has advanced out of the first round once in his entire career, and is a constant injury risk who has proven himself to not be durable over the past few post-seasons. You do these mental gymnastics, like telling yourself that pervasive injuries and lack of career accomplishments have nothing to do with were a player should be ranked.

I'm not saying Yao Ming isn't a very good player when healthy, but Dwight, KG, and Dirk are BETTER. Objectively, I can say that. KG is the only one who has declined.

If your only response to rational arguments is to insult people, well then you should just not bother making threads. Because most people will disagree with you every time, and you will just embarrass yourself by insulting everyone like a little kid. If you can't debate like a normal human being, you don't belong here.
Yes because I am a mod. :rolleyes:

Jesus you are an idiot, It's just gong to get deleted again and sadly ou still have no rebuttal for roundball rock and that's fine. Yao is the best center in the game, I see nothing but your worthless opinion still. Maybe if half of that post wasn't a personal attack like those others they would still be visible Idiot.

But to make it simple for your head, Yao is better than Dwight Howard because he is better than him in everything offensively. Everything, Howard scores more efficient because plays closer to the rim, that's what happens. Yao is the better passer, FT shooter, scorer, and is more dependable in late-game situations. Yao destroys him in the head to head matchups and Yao is a better post defender than Howard. They are both Top 10 players in the NBA so it doesn't matter.

[glidedrxlr22]

Mark (LA)

Is Kobe top 10 now?
John Hollinger

All-time? It's still a tough list to crack. For instance, just looking at contemporaries -- Shaq cleary outranks him, and you still have to rank Tim Duncan ahead of him too (four championships, top dog for all four, won without another All-Star in '03); it's really a battle for third with him and Garnett. Then you get into all the old-timers and the list fills up awfully fast. I'm comfortable with top 15, but top 10 is really crowded and I'm not sure he's in yet, or if he'll ever be.

[Jacks3]

I take Gasol over ROY or Deron.. Deron is very nice and one of the most skilled players in the game.. But he doesn't play defense.. Roy has not proved himself yet... GASOL is coming off a great playoff year plus he did a great job on DHoward.. Gasol is a top ten player... MAGIC JOHNSON AGREES... I will listen to MAGIC before I listen to you...:lol
No, he's not. He's not even top 3 at his position.
Bosh
Duncan
Roy
CP3
KG
Shaq
Yao
Deron
Kobe
Bron
Amare
Tony ParKer
Wade
Boozer
Dirk
Melo
Durant
Devin Hariss
Dwight Howard
Pierce
When healthy:Arenes,Brand

Listening to a Laker homer like Magic=fail:violin:

[Thechosen1]

bron,cp3,wade,kobe,howard,duncan,kg,dirk,yao,pp

[IamSofaKing]

I take Gasol over ROY or Deron.. Deron is very nice and one of the most skilled players in the game.. But he doesn't play defense.. Roy has not proved himself yet... GASOL is coming off a great playoff year plus he did a great job on DHoward.. Gasol is a top ten player... MAGIC JOHNSON AGREES... I will listen to MAGIC before I listen to you...:lol

Magic is the biggest Laker Homer ever :hammerhead:

[RocketGreatness]

Chris Paul better than Kobe?! Are you kidding me? CP3 might be better than Wade, he ain't better than Kobe by any means. Yao Ming is also the best center in basketball, is better offensively than Dwight at everything, better post defender and is more reliable in the 4th than Dwight is.

It seems like CP3 and Yao have been the most underrated recently.

[plowking]

Is anyone as baffled as I am to how Yao is better then Howard this year?

Howard has done this, which Yao hasn't:
All NBA first team
All defensive first team
DPOY
Higher on MVP voting
Led his team to the finals


Yet Yao Ming is better?

[Godfather]

Is anyone as baffled as I am to how Yao is better then Howard this year?

Howard has done this, which Yao hasn't:
All NBA first team
All defensive first team
DPOY
Higher on MVP voting
Led his team to the finals


Yet Yao Ming is better?

Let's not forget to add he was healthy through the playoffs.

Only those delusional think Yao is a better overall better basketball player than Dwight.

Though his offensive effectiveness can be questioned, Howard's defensive ability will leave him to be the best center for the better part of a decade.

[RocketGreatness]

Is anyone as baffled as I am to how Yao is better then Howard this year?

Howard has done this, which Yao hasn't:
All NBA first team
All defensive first team
DPOY
Higher on MVP voting
Led his team to the finals


Yet Yao Ming is better?
DPOY? Camby has one, I guess he's also better than Yao. :rolleyes:
All-NBA 1st Team? And....? David Robinson was the All-NBA 1st Team in 95, Hakeem wasn't, Olajuwon was still better and this also works for your defensive 1st team.

Higher on MVP voting: Go look at All-NBA 1st team
Led his team to the Finals: Too bad he had 2 all-stars with him, It would be an accomplishment if he had a bunch of losers like yourself.

[thejumpa]

Is anyone as baffled as I am to how Yao is better then Howard this year?

Howard has done this, which Yao hasn't:
All NBA first team
All defensive first team
DPOY
Higher on MVP voting
Led his team to the finals


Yet Yao Ming is better?

People say Yao is better because his game is smoother. As a true center looking to score, you have to have decent post moves. Yao has many, Howard has little to none....yeah he is better defensively but Yao doesn't really need to be better than he is. His team is already very good on the defensive end...unlike Orlando. Yao is known to play better h2h and against other PF/C's with length. I know you saw what happened to Howard in the Finals...Oh, and I think Yao should have made first team (I think Duncan got it? oh well not a true C anyway...)

[plowking]

DPOY? Camby has one, I guess he's also better than Yao. :rolleyes:
All-NBA 1st Team? And....? David Robinson was the All-NBA 1st Team in 95, Hakeem wasn't, Olajuwon was still better and this also works for your defensive 1st team.

Higher on MVP voting: Go look at All-NBA 1st team
Led his team to the Finals: Too bad he had 2 all-stars with him, It would be an accomplishment if he had a bunch of losers like yourself.

DPOY: Yes, Camby deserved it that year over most. You're not knowledgable just because you think "omg he plays help D, that means he sucks in real life". Help D is just as important as man, any college coach can tell you this. It's all about sacrificing for the team and stepping over to help out.

All NBA first team: How was Hakeem better? David Robinson was the best player in the league that year in the regular season. Hakeem just stepped it up in the playoffs. Of course you'd be one of the rejects that thinks MVP has to do with playoffs as well when it's a regular season award.

Higher on MVP: Yes he was, and the All NBA first team had the 5 best players in the league in it. What's the problem?

Led his team to the finals: 2 all stars? Nelson wasn't even there until the Lakers series.



Yao has a far better defensive line up, yet Howard is somehow able to make his team better defensively overall then Yao makes Houston.

Howard has Rashard and Turk and Lee to shut down players like the Wade's, Lebron's and Kobe's.
Yao has a DPOY in Artest, one of the best defenders in the league in Battier and Scola.

How does Dwight manage to make his team better defensively though? Magic, right?

[plowking]

People say Yao is better because his game is smoother. As a true center looking to score, you have to have decent post moves. Yao has many, Howard has little to none....yeah he is better defensively but Yao doesn't really need to be better than he is. His team is already very good on the defensive end...unlike Orlando. Yao is known to play better h2h and against other PF/C's with length. I know you saw what happened to Howard in the Finals...Oh, and I think Yao should have made first team (I think Duncan got it? oh well not a true C anyway...)

So Yao is better then Prime Shaq because his game is smoother and because he has a wider array of offensive moves? :rolleyes:

Despite Dwight's lack of postgame, he is still better on offense then Yao.

[RocketGreatness]

DPOY: Yes, Camby deserved it that year over most. You're not knowledgable just because you think "omg he plays help D, that means he sucks in real life". Help D is just as important as man, any college coach can tell you this. It's all about sacrificing for the team and stepping over to help out.
Yeah and...



All NBA first team: How was Hakeem better? David Robinson was the best player in the league that year in the regular season. Hakeem just stepped it up in the playoffs. Of course you'd be one of the rejects that thinks MVP has to do with playoffs as well when it's a regular season award.
Why did I even bring it up. It's not like you knew what the hell was going on then, It was clear Hakeem was still the better player, but Admiral was the MVP. It was just like this year's playoffs without the matchup of Kobe and LeBron.


Led his team to the finals: 2 all stars? Nelson wasn't even there until the Lakers series.

Yao has a far better defensive line up, yet Howard is somehow able to make his team better defensively overall then Yao makes Houston.

Howard has Rashard and Turk and Lee to shut down players like the Wade's, Lebron's and Kobe's.
Yao has a DPOY in Artest, one of the best defenders in the league in Battier and Scola.

How does Dwight manage to make his team better defensively though? Magic, right?


I don't think you understand Hedo is pretty much an all-star player, deserved it last year. That was why he was the MIP

Magic is the better defensive team? Hm... How so.

Yet ever since Yao has been on the Rockets, they have been Top 10 defensively.

Because Artest hasn't declined. :rolleyes: . Scola is a good pick n roll defender, but an average post defender. Battier is a great defender, no doubt.


So Yao is better then Prime Shaq because his game is smoother and because he has a wider array of offensive moves? :rolleyes:

Despite Dwight's lack of postgame, he is still better on offense then Yao.
Yeah back to my ignore list Idiot.

[Kblaze8855]

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Duncan
Paul
Howard
KG
Dirk
Deron
Yao

Not exactly in that order but nobody I listed past Dirk do I consider an option to drop. Roy, Melo, Amare, and a few others can be argued in place of Deron and Yao but they feel right at the moment.

[thejumpa]

So Yao is better then Prime Shaq because his game is smoother and because he has a wider array of offensive moves? :rolleyes:

Despite Dwight's lack of postgame, he is still better on offense then Yao.

Yes, Yao is better than a prime Shaq because his game is smoother. Shaq did nothing to make believe he was better than Yao. His offensive game was as rough and unpolished as Howard's is...you got me.

How is Dwight better than Yao on offense? please explain this to ISH...:confusedshrug:

[RocketGreatness]

Yes, Yao is better than a prime Shaq because his game is smoother. Shaq did nothing to make believe he was better than Yao. His offensive game was as rough and unpolished as Howard's is...you got me.

How is Dwight better than Yao on offense? please explain this to ISH...:confusedshrug:
Please tell me you are kidding, the dude never even watched Shaq play. Shaq was not offensively retarded like Dwight currently is. Shaq was an offensive minded center and has stated many times he never played defense when he was young. Shaq had great touch and excellent footwork, things Dwight needs to work on. So please tell me you are kidding right now.

Anyways, he is only saying that because Dwight has more PPG. He's nothing but a stat junkie he said Penny was overrated because his stats suck. He's just a stat or nothing guy.


Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Duncan
Paul
Howard
KG
Dirk
Deron
Yao

Not exactly in that order but nobody I listed past Dirk do I consider an option to drop. Roy, Melo, Amare, and a few others can be argued in place of Deron and Yao but they feel right at the moment.
You are talking about a healthy Yao Ming right? Because If so he is certainly better than Dirk or KG and Dwight of course. But please explain. Nevermind you said not exactly in that order. What do you think of my list though? It is the same, but the orders are probably going to be different.

[sirkeelma]

tim duncan chris paul overrated

KG waaaaaaaaay too low, should be 3rd or 4th

3rd or 4th injured list... or 3rd or 4th in terms of age.. LOL

[plowking]

Yes, Yao is better than a prime Shaq because his game is smoother. Shaq did nothing to make believe he was better than Yao. His offensive game was as rough and unpolished as Howard's is...you got me.

How is Dwight better than Yao on offense? please explain this to ISH...:confusedshrug:

How is he not?

He is able to score on a higher percentage of his shots. Get it? So are you saying a guy with 100 moves and shoots 40% is better then a dude with 25 moves and shoots 55%?

Dwight is a center, the point of the center position is to convert on easy looks around the basket, grab rebounds and provide a big body in the paint.

Dwight does all of those things better.

[RocketGreatness]

How is he not?

He is able to score on a higher percentage of his shots. Get it? So are you saying a guy with 100 moves and shoots 40% is better then a dude with 25 moves and shoots 55%?

Dwight is a center, the point of the center position is to convert on easy looks around the basket, grab rebounds and provide a big body in the paint.

Dwight does all of those things better.
Except Yao shoots at 55%, while Dwight shoots at 57%? Yes, I'm sure 2% is the biggest difference in the world. Just leave, It's clear you never played bball in your life. :oldlol:

Yao is the best center in basketball. Hands down, your I'm right you're wrong logic is failing you. But If you are so serious about this, I dare you to make a thread trying to prove Dwight's a better offensive player than Yao. Let's see how many agree with you outside of yourself.

[thejumpa]

Please tell me you are kidding, the dude never even watched Shaq play. Shaq was not offensively retarded like Dwight currently is. Shaq was an offensive minded center and has stated many times he never played defense when he was young. Shaq had great touch and excellent footwork, things Dwight needs to work on. So please tell me you are kidding right now.

Anyways, he is only saying that because Dwight has more PPG. He's nothing but a stat junkie he said Penny was overrated because his stats suck. He's just a stat or nothing guy.

:oldlol: no I was being sarcastic as hell....

And I really can't stand this guys type...Player A is better than Player B because Player A averages 2 more points a game. It's ridiculous logic. He still didn't answer my question on how Howard is better on offense..idiot

[RocketGreatness]

:oldlol: no I was being sarcastic as hell....

And I really can't stand this guys type...Player A is better than Player B because Player A averages 2 more points a game. It's ridiculous logic. He still didn't answer my question on how Howard is better on offense..idiot
I would love for him to start the who's better on offense Yao or Dwight thread. Let's see how many people vouch for Dwight. :oldlol:

Only he and another heat homer papa pete, think Dwight is better offensively and that's about it. Any person with a normal human brain will tell you Yao is better on offense, not all of them will tell you he's the better overall player, but offense? Yes.

[plowking]

:oldlol: no I was being sarcastic as hell....

And I really can't stand this guys type...Player A is better than Player B because Player A averages 2 more points a game. It's ridiculous logic. He still didn't answer my question on how Howard is better on offense..idiot

What is the point of a center? To convert easy shots around the basket. I don't care how he does it, if he's doing it more efficiently he's doing a better job. Not only is he scoring more points, he's doing it at a better clip.

His FG% isn't the only thing to look at. Players like Hakeem are better then Dwight on offense due to the fact they are able to create more shots for themselves and hence score more. Though even without that many post moves Howard is able to score more then Yao. Get it?

[thejumpa]

What is the point of a center? To convert easy shots around the basket. I don't care how he does it, if he's doing it more efficiently he's doing a better job. Not only is he scoring more points, he's doing it at a better clip.

His FG% isn't the only thing to look at. Players like Hakeem are better then Dwight on offense due to the fact they are able to create more shots for themselves and hence score more. Though even without that many post moves Howard is able to score more then Yao. Get it?

No, I don't. You still didn't answer my question on how Howard is better than Yao offensively. Don't pull up stats either, they average the same....20 a game.

I'm with RocketGreatness though, make a "Who's better on offense: Dwight or Yao?" thread and let's see what the people on this forum say. Better yet, ask Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum who they think is better on offense and see what they say...

[RocketGreatness]

No, I don't. You still didn't answer my question on how Howard is better than Yao offensively. Don't pull up stats either, they average the same....20 a game.

I'm with RocketGreatness though, make a "Who's better on offense: Dwight or Yao?" thread and let's see what the people on this forum say. Better yet, ask Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum who they think is better on offense and see what they say...
Yep, and Yao can create shots for himself it's clear plowking doesn't watch any games outside of Dwyane Wade. Sadly, the only reason why he is saying Dwight > Yao on offense is because it protects his logic of Wade > all.

Yep and Bynum said Yao was the harder guard, Al Horford said he was the harder guard and Brendan Haywood in an ESPN Chat said Yao was the harder guard. It's quite clear that plowking does nothing but look at stats. John Hollinger (Wade nut hugging style I am seeing here.)

[chains5000]

Yep and Bynum said Yao was the harder guard, Al Horford said he was the harder guard and Brendan Haywood in an ESPN Chat said Yao was the harder guard. It's quite clear that plowking does nothing but look at stats. John Hollinger (Wade nut hugging style I am seeing here.)
If those 3 all time greats say so...:rolleyes:

[plowking]

No, I don't. You still didn't answer my question on how Howard is better than Yao offensively. Don't pull up stats either, they average the same....20 a game.

I'm with RocketGreatness though, make a "Who's better on offense: Dwight or Yao?" thread and let's see what the people on this forum say. Better yet, ask Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum who they think is better on offense and see what they say...

No, I did answer your question. Even with limited post moves, he scores more and at a better clip.

What don't you get? I'm not going to bother posting again if you don't understand the sentence above.

[23ajay]

everything else is good but i would switch lebron and kobe

[Yung D-Will]

I take Gasol over ROY or Deron.. Deron is very nice and one of the most skilled players in the game.. But he doesn't play defense.. Roy has not proved himself yet... GASOL is coming off a great playoff year plus he did a great job on DHoward.. Gasol is a top ten player... MAGIC JOHNSON AGREES... I will listen to MAGIC before I listen to you...:lol

I'm going to stop you right there. I'm just assuming you've never watched a Utah Game if you don't think Deron plays Defense. He's the one player on that team besides Ronnie Brewer who can set the tone defensively and give u defensive effort for 48 minutes. He is a great man defender and is great at guarding the perimeter he can guard smaller guards and larger guards because of his speed and body. Saying Deron doesn't play defense is retarded. Saying you'd take Gasol over him is your opinion.

[AirJordan23]

1. Kobe Bryant. Still the best player in the game today. And no his ranking isn't influenced by him winning a championship and finals MVP. His stats have declined simply because he isn't taking enough shots, playing the triangle and getting everyone involved. You will see the usual shotjacking and inconsistency but not at the 05-07 level.

2. LeBron James. Individually, he has the biggest impact in the game. Scoring, rebounding, off ball movement, passing, defense etc. Cleveland should not be as good as they are. They've overachieved and that is due to this man. But, I'd like to see some more from LeBron. He needs to take advantages of mismatches more often. Post up. Use your strength and quickness to your advantage. His reasoning of playing in the post being boring is borderline retarded. Part of the reason is him being poorly coached thanks to Mike Brown.

3. Dwyane Wade. My reasoning is influenced by his inconsistent play in the playoffs. He played poorly on the road but he was pretty fatigued. Other than that, he has little or no flaws in his game.

4. Chris Paul. Best PG in the league. Brilliant floor general, great efficient scorer and can play the passing lane with the best of them. He knows when to score and when to pass. High IQ.

5. Dirk Nowitzki. Gets underrated in general due to not having flash in his game and missing that FT in game 3 of the finals. But, he's a great leader and scorer. Dallas overachieved a bit and Dirk has a lot to do with that. He's pretty clutch actually and can score and shoot efficiently. Flaws would include his poor defense and lack of toughness.

6. Dwight Howard. Best interior defender in the league. Great shot blocker. Hand eye coordination is great. Intimidating presence which reduces penetration. Flaws are obviously his offensive skill. He's limited in that area. He has gotten better in passing outta the double and his hook which is still inconsistent. Needs to work on his footwork and dropstep.

7. Tim Duncan. Overrated because people fail to realize health is issue with him these days. Limited minutes limit the impact he used to have a few years ago. He has gotten worse defensively, lacks the lateral quickness against 4s with a face up game. Post defense and offense is still elite.

8. Yao Ming. Health is the biggest issue and would probably be higher if he wasn't so fragile. His offense is spectacular. Commands doubles and triples at times. Great footwork. Has a nice baseline fadeaway, great FT shooter which is key for a big and can stretch the floor with the mid range J. Defense is also pretty good. His post defense, presence in the paint is underrated in general.

9. Deron Williams. Another man who gets underrated due to an off year. Truth be told, it wasn't really off since he was injured for about 25 games (?). He played really well after that and put Utah on his back and carried them to the playoffs. Great scorer with a complete game. Great court vision, awarness and ball handling skills. Aggresive defender.

10. Carmelo Anthony. :pimp: Great offensive repitoire. Very talented and has matured. Became a better leader, defender and more fundamentally sound player this year. Scoring should be back next year since that elbow has recovered.

Hon mention: Brandon Roy, Kevin Garnett, Amare.

The OP, you have a decent list but your mancrush on Yao is unhealthy.

[rfm767]

Kobe at #1

the rest can change, doesn't matter

[AirJordan23]

Um Hey Idiot, you said A healthy Yao is better than a healthy Dwight, go make up your mind, Tool.
:oldlol:

Are you retarded? I've already said a healthy Yao's better than Howard but when you factor in health, I'd take Howard over Yao simply because Howard is much more durable. Howard has played 407 games in the season out of a possible 410. Yao? He's only played 82 games once in his whole career. Why shouldn't I look at durabilty as a factor?

[RocketGreatness]

:oldlol:

Are you retarded? I've already said a healthy Yao's better than Howard but when you factor in health, I'd take Howard over Yao simply because Howard is much more durable. Howard has played 407 games in the season out of a possible 410. Yao? He's only played 82 games once in his whole career. Why shouldn't I look at durabilty as a factor?
Ok then, but term was when healthy. Thank you for contributing though. So Yao is the 6th best player in the NBA when healthy and you would agree with me.

Well done. :applause:


No, I did answer your question. Even with limited post moves, he scores more and at a better clip.

What don't you get? I'm not going to bother posting again if you don't understand the sentence above.
Go make the thread of who's the better offensive player, Yao or Dwight? Keyboard warrior.

[dyna]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Duncan
Garnet
Howard
Anthony
Roy
Ming
Nowitzki
Deron

:pimp:

[kurple]

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. CP3
5. Dirk
6. Melo
7. Dwight
8. Duncan
9. Deron
10. Yao
11. KG
12. Roy

[depletedW]

1. Kobe Bryant. Still the best player in the game today. And no his ranking isn't influenced by him winning a championship and finals MVP. His stats have declined simply because he isn't taking enough shots, playing the triangle and getting everyone involved. You will see the usual shotjacking and inconsistency but not at the 05-07 level.

2. LeBron James. Individually, he has the biggest impact in the game. Scoring, rebounding, off ball movement, passing, defense etc. Cleveland should not be as good as they are. They've overachieved and that is due to this man. But, I'd like to see some more from LeBron. He needs to take advantages of mismatches more often. Post up. Use your strength and quickness to your advantage. His reasoning of playing in the post being boring is borderline retarded. Part of the reason is him being poorly coached thanks to Mike Brown.

3. Dwyane Wade. My reasoning is influenced by his inconsistent play in the playoffs. He played poorly on the road but he was pretty fatigued. Other than that, he has little or no flaws in his game.

4. Chris Paul. Best PG in the league. Brilliant floor general, great efficient scorer and can play the passing lane with the best of them. He knows when to score and when to pass. High IQ.

5. Dirk Nowitzki. Gets underrated in general due to not having flash in his game and missing that FT in game 3 of the finals. But, he's a great leader and scorer. Dallas overachieved a bit and Dirk has a lot to do with that. He's pretty clutch actually and can score and shoot efficiently. Flaws would include his poor defense and lack of toughness.

6. Dwight Howard. Best interior defender in the league. Great shot blocker. Hand eye coordination is great. Intimidating presence which reduces penetration. Flaws are obviously his offensive skill. He's limited in that area. He has gotten better in passing outta the double and his hook which is still inconsistent. Needs to work on his footwork and dropstep.

7. Tim Duncan. Overrated because people fail to realize health is issue with him these days. Limited minutes limit the impact he used to have a few years ago. He has gotten worse defensively, lacks the lateral quickness against 4s with a face up game. Post defense and offense is still elite.

8. Yao Ming. Health is the biggest issue and would probably be higher if he wasn't so fragile. His offense is spectacular. Commands doubles and triples at times. Great footwork. Has a nice baseline fadeaway, great FT shooter which is key for a big and can stretch the floor with the mid range J. Defense is also pretty good. His post defense, presence in the paint is underrated in general.

9. Deron Williams. Another man who gets underrated due to an off year. Truth be told, it wasn't really off since he was injured for about 25 games (?). He played really well after that and put Utah on his back and carried them to the playoffs. Great scorer with a complete game. Great court vision, awarness and ball handling skills. Aggresive defender.

10. Carmelo Anthony. :pimp: Great offensive repitoire. Very talented and has matured. Became a better leader, defender and more fundamentally sound player this year. Scoring should be back next year since that elbow has recovered.

Hon mention: Brandon Roy, Kevin Garnett, Amare.

The OP, you have a decent list but your mancrush on Yao is unhealthy.

Your top 5 is good in my opinion, with Dirk and Paul being interchangeable.

For 6-10 I'm not sure, this mostly depends on the person doing the rankings. I just can't allow myself to be comfortable with yao in the top 10 though.

But your player comments were pretty accurate for each player. Thanks for not being an idiot who says Dirk isn't clutch.:cheers:

[AirJordan23]

Ok then, but term was when healthy. Thank you for contributing though. So Yao is the 6th best player in the NBA when healthy and you would agree with me.

Well done. :applause:


Yeah, Yao would be the 6th best player when healthy. But, the thing is health is too much of a concern with Yao.


Your top 5 is good in my opinion, with Dirk and Paul being interchangeable depending on whether or not a person includes individual and team accomplishments as factors in the rankings.

Dirk (MVP, multiple nba 1st teams, etc.) and the Mavs (Finals appearance, 9 years of minimum 50 wins, etc.) have obviously accomplished more than Paul and the Hornets, but skill-wise Paul might be better.

For 6-10 I'm not sure, this mostly depends on the person doing the rankings. I just can't allow myself to be comfortable with yao in the top 10 though.

But your player comments were pretty accurate for each player. Thanks for not being an idiot who says Dirk isn't clutch.

Yeah, I didn't take past accomplishments into account since it's really based on how the players are performing today. :cheers:

[zabuza666]

I'm fairly sure this thread is a thin veil that allows RocketsGreatness to put yao Ming over dwight and others. His blatant homerism is a ****ing joke.

Oh Dwight>>>Yao. Only a dumbass would take Yao "see you on the sidelines" Ming.

[depletedW]

I'm fairly sure this thread is a thin veil that allows RocketsGreatness to put yao Ming over dwight and others. His blatant homerism is a ****ing joke.

Oh Dwight>>>Yao. Only a dumbass would take Yao "see you on the sidelines" Ming.
Exactly

[D-Rose]

Since this is a "when healthy thread", I have to put Grant Hill in my Top 5 :applause:


:rolleyes:

[Luigi]

All NBA teams make a pretty solid top 15. Or at least they point out who isn't getting any love.

1st Team
F: LeBron James
F: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Dwight Howard
G: Kobe Bryant
G: Dwyane Wade

2nd Team
F: Paul Pierce
F: Tim Duncan
C: Yao Ming
G: Brandon Roy
G: Chris Paul

3rd Team
F: Carmelo Anthony
F: Pau Gasol
C: Shaquille O'Neal
G: Chauncey Billups
G: Tony Parker

[AT9]

"My rankings for 08-09:
1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant (Interchangeable with LeBron)
3. Dwayne Wade
4a. Tim Duncan
4b. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Chris Paul
7. Deron Williams
8. Dwight Howard
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Yao Ming"

That's the best one I've seen so far, IMO.

[RoseCity07]

I got Roy as 7th best in the NBA.

[Papaya Petee]

I got Roy as 7th best in the NBA.
Glad your the only one.

[Heelcrazy2]

I got Roy as 7th best in the NBA.

That is too high right now.

Here are seven players that are better:
Kobe
Bron
D12
Wade
CPIII
Dirk
Duncan

I would put Roy right around 11-15 right now.

[greymatter]

And where is proof they are better leaders? Melo never led his team past the 1st round without Billups, Roy has yet to get past the 1st round,

All I've seen you do is type up an opinion that is a blatant lie so I am clearly done with you at this point, because I am not arguing with an idiot Kobe only fan. Have a nice day and I hope you get run over by a car tomorrow.

How quaint. Mr Cant-get-his-mouth-off-Yao's-schlong is getting his panties in a wad when someone points out the obvious.

What's more is that your "when healthy" stipulation still falls flat on its ass because Yao played 34mpg for 77 games this season and was clearly reflected by the fact that he only got 8 of 124 first place votes.

I suppose it's only ironic that you fellate Yao and your team happens to resemble a giant phallus.

[greymatter]

116 to 8.

Keep sucking down Yao's protein shake. I know it's a nasty addiction. For that I pity you.

[RocketGreatness]

Yeah, Yao would be the 6th best player when healthy. But, the thing is health is too much of a concern with Yao.



Yeah, I didn't take past accomplishments into account since it's really based on how the players are performing today. :cheers:
By the way, I would say Duncan is underrated due to his health. I think people just praise on his past greatness so they rank him so high, I gotta so that is one of the reasons why I still think he's a Top 5 player and also him being a 20/10/2 player when healthy just like Yao.


This message is hidden because zabuza666 is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because greymatter is on your ignore list.
Interesting.


All NBA teams make a pretty solid top 15. Or at least they point out who isn't getting any love.

1st Team
F: LeBron James
F: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Dwight Howard
G: Kobe Bryant
G: Dwyane Wade

2nd Team
F: Paul Pierce
F: Tim Duncan
C: Yao Ming
G: Brandon Roy
G: Chris Paul

3rd Team
F: Carmelo Anthony
F: Pau Gasol
C: Shaquille O'Neal
G: Chauncey Billups
G: Tony Parker
That's far from determining the Top 15 players in the league, especially since it works by position. It works about the season, but usually take into account past accomplishments as well.

[RoseCity07]

That is too high right now.

Here are seven players that are better:
Kobe
Bron
D12
Wade
CPIII
Dirk
Duncan

I would put Roy right around 11-15 right now.

He was 7th in the league in PER and the only one on that list that I don't agree is Dirk. Roy is better than Dirk.

[KINGofTHEcourt]

IN NO ORDER

21 Alexis Ajinca C 7-0 220 05/06/1988 France 1
14 D.J. Augustin G 6-0 180 11/10/1987 Texas 1
19 Raja Bell G 6-5 215 09/19/1976 Florida International 9
Derrick Brown ** F 6-8 227 09/08/1987 Xavier (Ohio) R
32 Boris Diaw F-C 6-8 235 04/16/1982 France 6
7 DeSagana Diop C 7-0 280 01/30/1982 Oak Hill Academy (Mouth of Wilson, VA) 8
20 Raymond Felton G 6-1 198 06/26/1984 North Carolina 4
Gerald Henderson ** G 6-4 215 12/09/1987 Duke R
5 Juwan Howard F 6-9 253 02/07/1973 Michigan 15
2 Dontell Jefferson G 6-5 195 12/15/1983 Arkansas 1
1 Cartier Martin F 6-7 220 11/20/1984 Kansas State 1
42 Sean May F 6-9 266 04/04/1984 North Carolina 3

[plowking]

He was 7th in the league in PER and the only one on that list that I don't agree is Dirk. Roy is better than Dirk.

:oldlol:

Dirk is the best PF in the league.

[RoseCity07]

How so? And mind showing me your entire Top 10 list then? Roy is not better than Dirk, Roy is a 2nd tier player in the league, not a 1st like Kobe or Bron. Dirk led his team to the Finals at one point with no all-stars, Roy did a pretty good job in the playoffs himself, but couldn't get past the 1st round. Dirk is still better than Roy.

Didn't it take Jordan and Clyde like 7 seasons to get to the finals?

Dirk is responsible for the all time choke jobs in the playoffs. I think everyone on that list is better than Roy but Dirk.

[RoseCity07]

:oldlol:

Dirk is the best PF in the league.

Oh so you're one of those people that say Duncan is a center. lol

[oballers4life]

That is too high right now.

Here are seven players that are better:
Kobe
Bron
D12
Wade
CPIII
Dirk
Duncan

I would put Roy right around 11-15 right now.

Mine is sort of like yours but it goes.........

Kobe
Lebron
Dwight
Wade
CP3
Duncan
Durant
Dirk
KG
Pierce

[RoseCity07]

DIrk is a choker? Explain yourself. Explain why he is 4-0 in Game 7's of all-time . And Don't make me get the stats from what he did in those game 7's either. But please, give me your Top 10 list, I'd love to see it.

Team was up 2-0 in the finals and they lost to the Heat. His 60 win team lost to an 8th seed. Epic fail.

[Glo41]

Team was up 2-0 in the finals and they lost to the Heat. His 60 win team lost to an 8th seed. Epic fail.
Oh you mean BRoy who's never got out of the 1st round and yet he is better then Dirk? Epic fail.

Dirk had NO all stars on his team other then himself and took them to the finals. Name another player that did that?

[oballers4life]

Durant? :oldlol: You forgot about the boy who shits on your boy. What's his name? Yao or something like that? :confusedshrug:


Give me your TOp 10 list, if you think you are so smart kid.

I don't think you know how good this guy is

K. Durant

25.3 ppg
6.5 rpg
2.8 apg
1.3 spg
.7 bpg

47% fg
42% 3pt
86% ft

He had a streak in January and February of points like this

32
31
27
46
18
35
29
33
31
31
39
31
20
47
35
32
32

17 games in a row

In that streak he averaged 33 ppg, 10 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg

Lebron your MVP averaged 28, 7, 7, 2, 1

hmmmmmmmmmmmm..............

So what was that about Durant???????

[oballers4life]

Because Dwight is better already and he is years younger.

He doesn't miss half the year every year by hurting the same foot.

He will end up being one of the greatest centers of all time.

Shit on that!!!!

[oballers4life]

What is that supposed to mean?

[plowking]

Oh so you're one of those people that say Duncan is a center. lol

No, I'm one of those people who says that Dirk is a better player than Duncan, who also happens to be a PF.

[Snoop_Cat]

No, I'm one of those people who says that Dirk is a better player than Duncan, who also happens to be a PF.

I'm hoping that you mean currently lol.
To me, Dirk and Duncan are PF 1a+b, being the offensive/defensive versions of each other more or less.

[Lebron23]

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Tim Duncan
7. Dwight Howard
8. Brandon Roy
9. Yao Ming
10. Deron Williams

[oballers4life]

You guys underrate Dwight Howard and everyone underrates the Orlando Magic.

They have a great year. Beat Boston and Cleveland. Make it to the finals. Get Vince Carter. And Cleveland or Boston is the favorite next year.

Dwight Howard puts up monster stats all year.

Until he has one series where his offense wasn't great.

The only reason he didn't have a great series was because he got double-teamed as soon as he touched the ball.

He actually didn't have a bad series.

Pay some respect to superman.

He deserves to be higher than the 7th best player in the league.

[NuggetsFan]

He was 7th in the league in PER and the only one on that list that I don't agree is Dirk. Roy is better than Dirk.

Brandon Roy is not better than Dirk. Dirk is right up there with Duncan\Garnett as the best PF's this year. Probably could say he was the best PF this year(IMO he was probably the 2nd best).

[Fatal9]

Thing is Roy isn't just efficient because numbers say so. Watch him play, it's remarkable how few bad decisions he makes. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, there isn't a perimeter player right now who can get to the rim by exercising the same level of control that he does. His jumper is already solid but it's not as automatic as it could be from the mid-range area. 24 and he already plays like a vet, can't wait to see his prime :bowdown:

[RocketGreatness]

You guys underrate Dwight Howard and everyone underrates the Orlando Magic.

They have a great year. Beat Boston and Cleveland. Make it to the finals. Get Vince Carter. And Cleveland or Boston is the favorite next year.

Dwight Howard puts up monster stats all year.

Until he has one series where his offense wasn't great.

The only reason he didn't have a great series was because he got double-teamed as soon as he touched the ball.

He actually didn't have a bad series.

Pay some respect to superman.

He deserves to be higher than the 7th best player in the league.
No we don't, Dwight is by far the most overrated player in the NBA. He's not the best center in the league and he's not the best big man in the league yet. Yao and Duncan are still better. Yeah he got doubled as soon as he touched the ball, but if he was patient he would've passed it out more often instead of just forcing the issue all the time. Dwight has been exposed against the Celtics and against the Lakers in the 2009 Playoffs. Perkins completely shut him down with 1 on 1 defense and Gasol and Bynum did a good job defending him as well.

[Fatal9]

Gasol, Kobe and Odom did a good job defending him as well.
Fixed :D

[NuggetsFan]

Thing is Roy isn't just efficient because numbers say so. Watch him play, it's remarkable how few bad decisions he makes. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, there isn't a perimeter player right now who can get to the rim by exercising the same level of control that he does. His jumper is already solid but it's not as automatic as it could be from the mid-range area. 24 and he already plays like a vet, can't wait to see his prime :bowdown:

I agree with all this. But that being said I think Dirk is the better player at the moment :confusedshrug:

[KeylessEntry]

Top 10 players in the NBA for the past season and the near future:

1a. Lebron James
1b. Kobe Bryant
3. Dwayne Wade
4. Chris Paul
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Brandon Roy
9. Yao Ming
10. Dirk Nowitzki

[oballers4life]

No we don't, Dwight is by far the most overrated player in the NBA. He's not the best center in the league and he's not the best big man in the league yet. Yao and Duncan are still better. Yeah he got doubled as soon as he touched the ball, but if he was patient he would've passed it out more often instead of just forcing the issue all the time. Dwight has been exposed against the Celtics and against the Lakers in the 2009 Playoffs. Perkins completely shut him down with 1 on 1 defense and Gasol and Bynum did a good job defending him as well.

So 16 points, 17 rebounds, 3 blocks.

Rashard Lewis averaged 20 points.

But to my knowledge Yao hasnt even made it to the Conference Finals.

And he is not overrated!!!

Duncan is great but on the decline.

[kells333]

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Dirk
CP3
Melo
Roy
Yao
Durant

[oballers4life]

Duncan is still better than Dwight and Nice stats, Too bad you didn't show me his wins-loss and too bad you didn't show me his FG% and FT%.


And it's a pretty shitty list. Tell me what Roy does better than Yao and Dirk? and Dwight 5th? Yeah you have no credibility at all. At all.


Shitty order, and a shitty list.

There isn't anything wrong with Howard's FG%

I'm pretty sure Duncan isn't a good free throw shooter either.

All Yao has on him is height and free throws.

And the Magic made it to the finals. Did the Spurs make it out of the first round? Did the Rockets make it out the the second round?

NO!

[1~Gibson~1]

Rockets_guy you cant argue with everyone who puts Dwight over Yao. I agree with you, Yao > Dwight but you dont have to argue with everyone about it. I think LeBron > Kobe but you dont see me arguing with you for 10 pages about it. Let people have their own opinions if you're going to make a thread like this.

[RocketGreatness]

There isn't anything wrong with Howard's FG%

I'm pretty sure Duncan isn't a good free throw shooter either.

All Yao has on him is height and free throws.
You forgot about the fact that Dwight shot 47% FG wise against the Lakers. It's quite obvious you don't even watch the Magic play the Rockets, because Yao is better than Dwight everything on offense if you actually watch basketball. Head to head Yao jizzes on Dwight's face.


Rockets_guy you cant argue with everyone who puts Dwight over Yao. I agree with you, Yao > Dwight but you dont have to argue with everyone about it. I think LeBron > Kobe but you dont see me arguing with you for 10 pages about it.
I see your point, but people act like it's no debate. If you read my 1st post, I said It's very easy to argue LeBron>Kobe, very easy to argue that. However, using my logic I do say Kobe>LeBron. And It's RocketGreatness. :D

[Juges8932]

Thing is Roy isn't just efficient because numbers say so. Watch him play, it's remarkable how few bad decisions he makes. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, there isn't a perimeter player right now who can get to the rim by exercising the same level of control that he does. His jumper is already solid but it's not as automatic as it could be from the mid-range area. 24 and he already plays like a vet, can't wait to see his prime :bowdown:

Thank you. I agree entirely with your post. People underrate Roy, he is a fantastic player, 3rd best two-guard in the league. He has a fantastic attitude, great team player, high bb IQ, solid defense, good offensive skillset and he's a young-gun who is only going to get better.
:cheers:

[oballers4life]

You forgot about the fact that Dwight shot 47% FG wise against the Lakers. It's quite obvious you don't even watch the Magic play the Rockets, because Yao is better than Dwight everything on offense if you actually watch basketball. Head to head Yao jizzes on Dwight's face.


I see your point, but people act like it's no debate. If you read my 1st post, I said It's very easy to argue LeBron>Kobe, very easy to argue that. However, using my logic I do say Kobe>LeBron. And It's RocketGreatness. :D

You can have your own opinion but, Dwight is only 23 and Yao can't even play in this league without getting hurt. So Dwight will have a way better career.

[T-bomb 25]

Says the guy with Kobe at 17 on his all time list...

Anyway,
1) Kobe
2) Lebron
3) Wade
4) Howard
5) Yao
6) Dirk
7) Duncan
8) D Will
9) KG
10) CP3

I understand that the Hornets are terrible, but I can't bring myself to say CP3 had a great season when he allowed his team to get beat by Denver in 5, losing a game by 58 while he only scored 4 and had 6 TO.thats pretty much how his stats look when he matches up with D-Will,its not really close between the 2 to me.

1.Kobe
2.Wade
3.Lebron
4.Melo
5.Duncan
6.Roy
7.D-Will
8.Dirk
9.Howard
10.Paul

[T-bomb 25]

Fair enough.


And it's a pretty shitty list. Tell me what Roy does better than Yao and Dirk? and Dwight 5th? Yeah you have no credibility at all. At all.Its pretty simple Dirk is a horrible defender with questionable shot slection,Yao is injury prone and doesent take enough shots,Dwight is basically the 3rd option on his team and he cant shoot freethrows and has no post game outside of dunks which makes him not a clutch player,now do you understand why?

[T-bomb 25]

Top 2 are pretty much tied
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lebron James

3. Chris Paul
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Dwight Howard
6. Tim Duncan
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Deron Williams
9. Paul Pierce
10. Amare StoudemireWoa! no way is Paul ahead of Wade,and KG isnt in the top 10 and Amare deffinetly isnt,Paul at 3 is absurd.:roll:

[moaz]

Its pretty simple Dirk is a horrible defender with questionable shot slection,

I no english.
please explain the 2 words in black.
i read in my dictionary and there u find horrible= somewhat bad and questionable = somewhat bad again.
but my eyes (they no english too) see something else when dirk plays.
so pls pls pls help me.

smile

[T-bomb 25]

I no english.
please explain the 2 words in black.
i read in my dictionary and there u find horrible= somewhat bad and questionable = somewhat bad again.
but my eyes (they no english too) see something else when dirk plays.
so pls pls pls help me.

smileSorry i dont speak dumbass,try someone else.

[ihatetimthomas]

Very nice list. I agree with most. Top 3 is a lock. As most have been saying 4-10 are a toss up. But I do like your list and would have ranked them probably very close to what you have. I believe Paul is the best pg in the league so putting him at 4 is fine. I like Duncan at 5 because even at his age of decline, he is still more sound and still smarter than most NBA players out there. He still manages to impact the game without putting up insane stats. Not taking into account injuries, I have Yao over Dwight in my books, but if I were to include health issues, I switch the 2. I might switch KG and Dirk bc I think Dirk overall is the better individual player at this stage of their careers. I would have a more difficult time deciding the final spot bc I think that can go to Deron, Melo or Roy. I'd likely give that to Melo of Deron. Overall, agree with most of the list and good analysis

[Thom.Yorke]

lebrons stats are better no denying. but kobe won a ring

ring>stats.

next season maybe another story

[D-Rose]

How do you keep bumping this thread with the same post?

[truethat23]

Move Howard to 6, Garnett to 7, and Yao to 8.

Either than those changes I just named, the list is pretty accurate to what I would have.

[ZaaaaaH]

This is the OFFICAL List TOP 10 in the NBA
Its not my list this is the OFFICAL ! If you do not know what OFFICAL means go look it up at www.Dictionary.com

1. KOBE BRYANT No doubt Kobe is #1. Yes Bron Bron is right under him BUT Kobe has not given up that #1 spot yet. Just like Jordan did Kobe will hand down the #1 spot once the time comes and that

[truethat23]

Either than those changes? :oldlol: Work on your English before criticizing my list Idiot.

Man why are you so sensitive? Don't post threads up here if you're not going to respect other peoples' opinions.

[KubiliusF]

Dwight does not deserve to be in a middle of list at best he`s number 10 of top ten . Even then its overrating

[ZaaaaaH]

LOL Dwight should not be on TOP 10 LOL :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


Go watch some baseball boy.

[RocketGreatness]

Yeah, Yao would be the 6th best player when healthy. But, the thing is health is too much of a concern with Yao.



Yeah, I didn't take past accomplishments into account since it's really based on how the players are performing today. :cheers:
and Hopefully Yao's current injury is only short-term and a huge exaggeration. :(


Very nice list. I agree with most. Top 3 is a lock. As most have been saying 4-10 are a toss up. But I do like your list and would have ranked them probably very close to what you have. I believe Paul is the best pg in the league so putting him at 4 is fine. I like Duncan at 5 because even at his age of decline, he is still more sound and still smarter than most NBA players out there. He still manages to impact the game without putting up insane stats. Not taking into account injuries, I have Yao over Dwight in my books, but if I were to include health issues, I switch the 2. I might switch KG and Dirk bc I think Dirk overall is the better individual player at this stage of their careers. I would have a more difficult time deciding the final spot bc I think that can go to Deron, Melo or Roy. I'd likely give that to Melo of Deron. Overall, agree with most of the list and good analysis
Yep Agreed, and thanks for the props Sorry to annoy you about it though. :cheers: I have a hard time arguing for Melo, I like him the most out of those guys. But the way I think and the logic I use, I'd have to give that 10th spot to Deron or B-Roy. In my opinion, Deron Williams is still superior when he is healthy of course, health seems to be somewhat of an issue with him if you ask me.

[KeylessEntry]

How do you keep bumping this thread with the same post?

He quotes one of his earlier posts, then deletes it and makes a new post with the exact same text in it.

[oballers4life]

Dwight does not deserve to be in a middle of list at best he`s number 10 of top ten . Even then its overrating

overrated?

21/14/3 55%

i don't think so......

why would you say he's overrated?

because he couldn't get it done in the finals?

well then i guess LeBron is overrated to because he couldn't get it done against the supposedly overrated Howard.

[oballers4life]

He got exposed in the Celtics series to you know? He's just lucky Hedo came through in Games 6 and 7.

so 16 points and 17 rebounds isn't a good game

he wasn't exposed and he had a 20-20 game in game 6.
he gets doubled as soon as he touches the ball.

so you tell me how to score on 2 7 footers

then your gonna tell me about getting better about passing it out of the dt.

then you'll say hes overrated because he didn't average 24 points a game.

so no matter what he does you people say he is overrated

and actually he averaged 15-15 so name me another center that can average that against the champ lakers?

[KeylessEntry]

Yet your list is still garbage, What makes Roy ahead of Yao and not Howard? Or are you just being a massive idiot, like you already are one? :confusedshrug:

I have explained my feelings on Yao to you multiple times in the past. I have learned that I have better things to do with my time than argue with mr. brick wall of China on that topic.

[RocketGreatness]

so 16 points and 17 rebounds isn't a good game

he wasn't exposed and he had a 20-20 game in game 6.
he gets doubled as soon as he touches the ball.

so you tell me how to score on 2 7 footers

then your gonna tel me about getting better about passing it out of the dt.

then you'll say hes overrated because he didn't average 24 points a game.

so no matter what he does you people say he is overrated

and actually he averaged 15-15 so name me another center that can average that against the champ lakers?
Perkins owned him 1 on 1. Perkins averaged a double double against Dwight as well. Perkins defended him in single coverage the entire series dummy. Dwight gets his stats, but if you watch the game you would know he's having a pretty poor game.


I have explained my feelings on Yao to you multiple times in the past. I have learned that I have better things to do with my time than argue with mr. brick wall of China on that topic.
Ah nothing left in the tank as expected. Good choice, I would've owned you faster than I would in the past anyways. :oldlol:

[oballers4life]

Perkins owned him 1 on 1. Perkins averaged a double double against Dwight as well. Perkins defended him in single coverage the entire series dummy. Dwight gets his stats, but if you watch the game you would know he's having a pretty poor game.

yea 15-15 isn't good for him and that shows how good he is and name another center who can get 15-15 and be upset about a bad series.

LeBron will never get it done and he will never win a ring unless the league allows all star teams to play regularly.

So stop overrating LeBron and stop underrating Howard.

[KeylessEntry]

Ah nothing left in the tank as expected. Good choice, I would've owned you faster than I would in the past anyways. :oldlol:

Yeah because saying for the 100th time that you "think that Yao's superiority on offense is bigger than Dwights superiority on defense" and not backing it up with any sort of stats or tangible evidence is really "owning" someone. You "owned" every Dwight lover on this board with your unbiased objective analysis of their respective abilities. :rolleyes:

[RocketGreatness]

yea 15-15 isn't good for him and that shows how good he is and name another center who can get 15-15 and be upset about a bad series.

LeBron will never get it done and he will never win a ring unless the league allows all star teams to play regularly.

So stop overrating LeBron and stop underrating Howard.
Dwight is still Top 10 which is nothing to complain about. He plays with FOUR 3 point shooters in the starting lineup. His stats are going to be inflated especially rebounding wise. Now, I give credit for how much of a defensive force Dwight is with his shot blocking, but his offensive game is only so-so. You can straight up defense with him, and your team won't pay the price especially if you have a center with length and decent athletic ability.


Yeah because saying for the 100th time that you "think that Yao's superiority on offense is bigger than Dwights superiority on defense" and not backing it up with any sort of stats or tangible evidence is really "owning" someone. You "owned" every Dwight lover on this board with your unbiased objective analysis of their respective abilities. :rolleyes:
Yep, Thanks for noticing. I don't need to use stats to backup anything. Watch basketball, but it's clear you don't do that either.

[oballers4life]

Dwight is still Top 10 which is nothing to complain about. He plays with FOUR 3 point shooters in the starting lineup. His stats are going to be inflated especially rebounding wise. Now, I give credit for how much of a defensive force Dwight is with his shot blocking, but his offensive game is only so-so. You can straight up defense with him, and your team won't pay the price especially if you have a center with length and decent athletic ability.

what center had perfect offensive moves when he was 23?

Shaq just overpowered people before the age of flopping.