John Wall, the next Derrick Rose? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

DwadeOverLebron

06-19-2009, 05:10 PM

comparisons with the athletic ability is the only thing these two have in common and it ends there in terms of similarities, yeah they are both superb athletes, but even that has certain differences too, wall is a pure speedster! extremely quick! rose is fast but he plays more under control and doesn't utilize his speed to his potential but when he turns it on he's gone! rose is ALOT ALOT more stronger! i honestly don't think he even knows how strong he is... the kids strength is incredible, wall definitely needs to hit the weights.

in terms of game, im gonna have to give the slight nod to wall with ball handling, passing is about equal cuz i can't determine if one is better than the other at setting up his teammates, but rose looks to pass first almost all of the time, as wall does look for the pass, but then he'll look for his shot way more than rose would.

defense is the 2nd biggest difference between the two i would say, im not going to say wall is the better defender yet! cuz rose did step his defense up in the playoffs bigtime! but wall has a more willingness to play dee! well rose almost seams lackadasical at times on the defensive side of things.

to me the main difference is the mentallity of the two, wall is more aggressive, he has that "it" hunger factor that i noticed whenever i've seen him, wall plays with a chip on his shoulder, while rose is sometimes hoe hum about stuff, altho i know rose is very much a competitor it's sometimes hard to tell if he actually really wants it that bad, and by "it" i mean greatness, championships etc.

i said this before that i think wall will eventually be a 2 gaurd if he fills out a bit and maybe grows a inch or two cuz wall is a legitimate 6'4 right now, while rose is 6'2 on a good day, im not going to say wall's ceiling is higher but potentially it could be, and if wall turns out better than rose i would not be surprised the least bit.

if i had to pick one player between the two... even tho it kills me to say it... im gonna have to pick wall, and this is coming from a huge bulls derrick rose fan! i just think john wall is one of those special talents, once in every 5 year talent, and i think he's gonna hear his name in the same breath as wade, lebron, kobe in a couple of years.

Go Getter

06-19-2009, 06:39 PM

Not even the same mold of player.

Derrick Rose is a natural 1 and Wall is a 2 guard.

Undisputed

06-19-2009, 06:47 PM

if i had to pick one player between the two... even tho it kills me to say it... im gonna have to pick wall, and this is coming from a huge bulls derrick rose fan! i just think john wall is one of those special talents, once in every 5 year talent, and i think he's gonna hear his name in the same breath as wade, lebron, kobe in a couple of years.

So you're willing to say you'd pick John Wall over Rose when Wall hasn't even played a college game? You're overhyping Wall WAY too much. Let the guy prove what he can do at the next two levels before saying you think he'll be in the same breath as Wade, Lebron, or Kobe in a couple years.

Go Getter

06-19-2009, 07:13 PM

Rose:

Seems like he has the edge in strength, body control, ball handling [keeping the ball low], and finishing with the layup.

Wall:

Seems like a more natural scorer, is longer ans finishes with the dunk easier, a flashier ball handler, better defender [potential].

seems like Wall is more of a Wade type player than a PG.

DwadeOverLebron

06-19-2009, 07:25 PM

So you're willing to say you'd pick John Wall over Rose when Wall hasn't even played a college game? You're overhyping Wall WAY too much. Let the guy prove what he can do at the next two levels before saying you think he'll be in the same breath as Wade, Lebron, or Kobe in a couple years.

umm... no, i don't want to wait two years and see what he's capable of accomplishing and then have everybody either say he is or isn't going to be better than rose dwade or who ever, am i overhyping him up now? maybe, but i did try my best not too, this is my perception of john wall and i stated my opinions and sticking too em, i admit i am making a very bold statement, but just try to remember by me making this statement i am willing to reap the benefits or consequences for this statement! i want to say this right now loud and clear! is that ok with you buddy?

Interminator

06-19-2009, 08:09 PM

Not even the same mold of player.

Derrick Rose is a natural 1 and Wall is a 2 guard.
Wall isnt exactly a 2, he shoots much more than Rose does and hes a more willing passer than Rose.

Wall's problem comes from Heat Checking during games, when his shot is off he will attempt to get it back on at the displeasure of his teammates.

brandonislegend

06-19-2009, 08:23 PM

more like wade than rose

Undisputed

06-19-2009, 08:33 PM

umm... no, i don't want to wait two years and see what he's capable of accomplishing and then have everybody either say he is or isn't going to be better than rose dwade or who ever, am i overhyping him up now?

:wtf: English?

maybe, but i did try my best not too, this is my perception of john wall and i stated my opinions and sticking too em, i admit i am making a very bold statement, but just try to remember by me making this statement i am willing to reap the benefits or consequences for this statement! i want to say this right now loud and clear! is that ok with you buddy?

You weren't trying to overhype him? My goodness, good thing you didn't try to actually do that. Chances are(which I'm sure you'll deny) that you've never seen anything on John Wall outside of highlights and YouTube. I don't care if you give well informed opinions, I just don't understand how you could say those things by only watching highlights, reading reports, and looking at numbers. I guess that's what a lot of people do on Inside Hoops....

Had you said these things after his college season it would've given the statements a little credibility, but still wouldn't be a very smart thing to say. I just find it humorous that you said you'd take a fresh out of high school player who hasn't proved anything yet over the 2009 rookie of the year and that he may be in the same breath as Kobe and Wade someday. C'mon, man. That'd be overhyping someone even if they were coming off a brilliant college campaign, let alone someone who hasn't even started college.

unbreakable

06-19-2009, 10:39 PM

Ive seen my fair share of Wall and Rose and I feel that DWadeOverLebron made some good points and his analysis is respected.. if you differ with him explain why.. dont just call him wrong.

GreatGreg

06-19-2009, 10:48 PM

Ive seen my fair share of Wall and Rose and I feel that DWadeOverLebron made some good points and his analysis is respected.. if you differ with him explain why.. dont just call him wrong.
I believe Undisputed clearly explained why he differed with DwadeoverLebron...

Interminator

06-19-2009, 10:52 PM

more like wade than rose
Not really.

Wade doesnt start heat checking from the outside because he realizes thats not one of the stronger points of his game.

Wall is more like a cross between Wade & Crawford.

BingBongBrother

06-19-2009, 11:35 PM

Wall = Jamal Crawford

FIXED

06-20-2009, 06:52 AM

Is this a joke ? Wall couldn't even lead Team USA to a win. They lost to the freaking world. I mean back in 2007 Derrick Rose with O.J. Mayo, Mike Beasley, Kevin Love destroyed the world.

Interminator

06-20-2009, 10:02 AM

Niquesports

06-20-2009, 10:16 AM

This guy seems very similar to Derrick Rose. abt 6'3 with insane athleticism and penetrating ability, superb ball control and creative passing skills.

Both of them even have similar weakness, a poor shot from midrange and out. Ive heard others say that John Wall though has the pontential to be even better then Rose( which is a far shot since he hasnt even played any NBA minutes )

where is he from
Any differences between them two though?
where is he from

Interminator

06-20-2009, 10:19 AM

where is he from
I think hes from Raleigh North Carolina.

Niquesports

06-20-2009, 10:19 AM

comparisons with the athletic ability is the only thing these two have in common and it ends there in terms of similarities, yeah they are both superb athletes, but even that has certain differences too, wall is a pure speedster! extremely quick! rose is fast but he plays more under control and doesn't utilize his speed to his potential but when he turns it on he's gone! rose is ALOT ALOT more stronger! i honestly don't think he even knows how strong he is... the kids strength is incredible, wall definitely needs to hit the weights.

in terms of game, im gonna have to give the slight nod to wall with ball handling, passing is about equal cuz i can't determine if one is better than the other at setting up his teammates, but rose looks to pass first almost all of the time, as wall does look for the pass, but then he'll look for his shot way more than rose would.
defense is the 2nd biggest difference between the two i would say, im not going to say wall is the better defender yet! cuz rose did step his defense up in the playoffs bigtime! but wall has a more willingness to play dee! well rose almost seams lackadasical at times on the defensive side of things.

to me the main difference is the mentallity of the two, wall is more aggressive, he has that "it" hunger factor that i noticed whenever i've seen him, wall plays with a chip on his shoulder, while rose is sometimes hoe hum about stuff, altho i know rose is very much a competitor it's sometimes hard to tell if he actually really wants it that bad, and by "it" i mean greatness, championships etc.

i said this before that i think wall will eventually be a 2 gaurd if he fills out a bit and maybe grows a inch or two cuz wall is a legitimate 6'4 right now, while rose is 6'2 on a good day, im not going to say wall's ceiling is higher but potentially it could be, and if wall turns out better than rose i would not be surprised the least bit.

if i had to pick one player between the two... even tho it kills me to say it... im gonna have to pick wall, and this is coming from a huge bulls derrick rose fan! i just think john wall is one of those special talents, once in every 5 year talent, and i think he's gonna hear his name in the same breath as wade, lebron, kobe in a couple of years.
ITs just too early

Go Getter

06-20-2009, 12:33 PM

Wall isnt exactly a 2, he shoots much more than Rose does and hes a more willing passer than Rose.

Wall's problem comes from Heat Checking during games, when his shot is off he will attempt to get it back on at the displeasure of his teammates.

Seems like a contradiction. He shoots more but is a more willing passer?

From the modicum of video footage I've seen on Wall he likes to make the spectacular pass but I haven't really seen his willingness to pass.

Rose

06-20-2009, 01:24 PM

Wall isnt exactly a 2, he shoots much more than Rose does and hes a more willing passer than Rose.

Wall's problem comes from Heat Checking during games, when his shot is off he will attempt to get it back on at the displeasure of his teammates.

Lmao contridiction much?

Wall is nowhere near what Rose is in type of player.
Rose wants to pass and be a point, and he's smart in that ELITE level way of guards of knowing when he needs to score for his team and when he needs to set people up. Not many guys master that ability at his young age. He knows how to score and when to score, and he can set up everyone for ten or twenty plays then score the next ten points.

Wall however, loves making the flashy pass, and scoring. He definitely loves the fancy dunks layups, and all that jazz. He'll pass when there's a chance for him to pull off an amazing pass or when he's double teamed.

Rose is a PUUUUUUUUURE point, Wall is more of a Randy Foye kinda guy with Wade-like scoring ability.

Interminator

06-20-2009, 01:26 PM

Seems like a contradiction. He shoots more but is a more willing passer?

From the modicum of video footage I've seen on Wall he likes to make the spectacular pass but I haven't really seen his willingness to pass.
He shoots more than Rose because hes a better shooter than Rose, but he also is a more willing passer than Rose.

Wall can give you 23/11 some games while Rose usually can give you 20/6.

Interminator

06-20-2009, 01:27 PM

Lmao contridiction much?

Wall is nowhere near what Rose is in type of player.
Rose wants to pass and be a point, and he's smart in that ELITE level way of guards of knowing when he needs to score for his team and when he needs to set people up. Not many guys master that ability at his young age. He knows how to score and when to score, and he can set up everyone for ten or twenty plays then score the next ten points.

Wall however, loves making the flashy pass, and scoring. He definitely loves the fancy dunks layups, and all that jazz. He'll pass when there's a chance for him to pull off an amazing pass or when he's double teamed.

Rose is a PUUUUUUUUURE point, Wall is more of a Randy Foye kinda guy with Wade-like scoring ability.
Username:Rose

Troll.

Wall is nothing like Randy Foye, what the **** are you talking about?

Wall gets everyone involved in the offense as well as scoring, the flashy argument can also be tagged onto Rose as well who would do too much espescially when trying to finish at the basket.

Wall has more range than Rose, and is more willing to shoot the ball from the perimeter although he is a streak shooter and will sometimes go on heat checks like Crawford does which is where the comparison comes from.

However Wall gets his teammates involved in the offense when they're open, hes not a pure PG who will set up an offense from the top of the key but when the offense flows through him he'll make the necessary passes as well as take shots.

Scoring PG with an ability to find the open man, you can't beat that.

TheGame414

06-20-2009, 02:29 PM

Is this a joke ? Wall couldn't even lead Team USA to a win. They lost to the freaking world. I mean back in 2007 Derrick Rose with O.J. Mayo, Mike Beasley, Kevin Love destroyed the world.
I don't think Wall is better than Rose either, but this wouldn't be the reason. You said it yourself: those names you mentioned were the No. 2, 3 and 4 picks in the NBA Draft. Arguably the four best players in one of the best classes ever.

Even if the talent was completely equal and the world team was equal- I don't know that it's true- a)it's just an exhibition game that doesn't really mean a whole lot and you can't gauge much from that one game. b)Wall was spectacular in that game.

Rose

06-20-2009, 10:19 PM

Username:Rose

Troll.

Wall is nothing like Randy Foye, what the **** are you talking about?

Wall gets everyone involved in the offense as well as scoring, the flashy argument can also be tagged onto Rose as well who would do too much espescially when trying to finish at the basket.

Wall has more range than Rose, and is more willing to shoot the ball from the perimeter although he is a streak shooter and will sometimes go on heat checks like Crawford does which is where the comparison comes from.

However Wall gets his teammates involved in the offense when they're open, hes not a pure PG who will set up an offense from the top of the key but when the offense flows through him he'll make the necessary passes as well as take shots.

Scoring PG with an ability to find the open man, you can't beat that.

See Randy Foye: an undersized two guard who will occasionally pass,(and was meant to be a point when drafted) but rarely for just the typical old hey he's pretty open. He's a good solid shooter can shoot from behind the arch and midrange and he can drive it in. Just like...JOHN WALL. Yeah he has the ABILITY to find the open man but doesn't take it. Do I think John Wall will be a good player?Yes I do. Next Derrick Rose or even better? I doubt it.

Also I've watched ALOT of Derrick Rose games, and I've never seen him only go for flashy passes, will he occasionally try one..sure. But not like John Wall does.

iDunk

06-20-2009, 10:21 PM

Next Dwayne Wade.

From what I see he blocks, shoots, and dunks just like Dwayne Dwade. He's a dead on copy.

Interminator

06-20-2009, 10:40 PM

See Randy Foye: an undersized two guard who will occasionally pass,(and was meant to be a point when drafted) but rarely for just the typical old hey he's pretty open. He's a good solid shooter can shoot from behind the arch and midrange and he can drive it in. Just like...JOHN WALL. Yeah he has the ABILITY to find the open man but doesn't take it. Do I think John Wall will be a good player?Yes I do. Next Derrick Rose or even better? I doubt it.
You're kidding me, son stop talking out of your ass.

Wall is not a consistent shooter from behind the arch or has a consistent midrange game, Wall is the definition of streak shooter who will look for the midrange or 3 pointer every game and will Heat Check to get it going, hopefully a coach will attempt to coach him out of it because doing so can cause your FG% to dip.

However when he gets hot from deep, hes pretty much unstoppable on the court because his quickness to the basket and explosiveness when he finishes is Elite for a Guard at any level.

Foye is much stronger than Wall, but Foye lacked the quickness, athletic ability and the explosiveness when finishing of a John Wall.Foye penetrated to the basket, but when he penetrates he goes strong using pure force to get his shot up.

Also Wall makes the needed pass, he has an actual feel for the game at PG unlike Foye did at Villanova or even now.Foye is pretty much a Small Forward trapped in a big PG's body playing SG, which is why he was limited when he was forced to run the T'Wolves offense.

What Wall does is impressive, he gets others involved while also providing scoring, it is very hard to find a single comparable player to Wall in the NBA.

Also I've watched ALOT of Derrick Rose games, and I've never seen him only go for flashy passes, will he occasionally try one..sure. But not like John Wall does.
I never said Rose attempts flashy passes, I am describing the Too Much factor about Rose's game which is still relevant even now when he attacks the basket, he does too much in terms of his finishing where he attempts the tough shot rather than the efficient shot.

Go Getter

06-21-2009, 12:41 AM

He shoots more than Rose because hes a better shooter than Rose, but he also is a more willing passer than Rose.

Wall can give you 23/11 some games while Rose usually can give you 20/6.

Rose averaged 18 and 6 as a rookie in the league and Wall did what now?

*not to mention Rose's 36 and 11 Game 1 of the playoffs.

I see Wall as the type to try to force a bad pass rather than make a 'hockey assist.'

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and wait and see also.

Interminator

06-21-2009, 12:43 AM

Rose averaged 18 and 6 as a rookie in the league and Wall did what now?

*not to mention Rose's 36 and 11 Game 1 of the playoffs.

I see Wall as the type to try to force a bad pass rather than make a 'hockey assist.'

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and wait and see also.
Huh?

Wall can run an offense, the problem is he also likes to score, Rose on the other hand is more of a penetrator than scorer.

Go Getter

06-21-2009, 01:01 AM

Huh?

Wall can run an offense, the problem is he also likes to score, Rose on the other hand is more of a penetrator than scorer.

My point was that you compared Rose's stats to Wall SrHS stats.

What Wall will do in college and the pros remain to be seen.

Derrick Rose is not a scorer he's a distributor.

I liken his game to Jason Kidd only more athletic and less court vision and passing skills.

People say, "Oh he looks passive, he looks like he doesn't want to score."

No. The play doesn't CALL for him to score.

The main thing that's going to be hard for Rubio and Wall to match in regards to Rose's rookie season is his efficiency.

It's possible though that Wall turns into another Penny Hardaway...I mean it looks good for the kid I just see him as a 2.

Have you seen any of his games?

TheGame414

06-21-2009, 01:13 AM

I see Wall as the type to try to force a bad pass rather than make a 'hockey assist.'

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and wait and see also.
That's a really good point about Derrick Rose. I don't know if he'll ever have Deron/CP3-like assist numbers, but he makes the right play. That's what's kind of interesting about him: for such an unbelievable athlete, he isn't what you'd call a particularly flashy player. That isn't good or bad by itself, it just is what it is.

Go Getter

06-21-2009, 02:05 AM

Next Dwayne Wade.

From what I see he blocks, shoots, and dunks just like Dwayne Dwade. He's a dead on copy.

Agreed.

He just needs to hit the weight room.

FIXED

06-21-2009, 02:20 AM

Agreed.

He just needs to hit the weight room.

Wow i just watched John Wall Youtube for the first time in my life and all I have to say is he is better than Rose alot better.

Wall might be the fastest person I have seen dribble a basketball since a Young Allen Iverson

He is what 6'4 with a huge wingspan sick vertical all he needs to do his hit the weight room for some upper body strength. He plays exactly like a Wade w/o upper body strength.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKSqSJ7-7k

Go Getter

06-21-2009, 02:36 AM

Wow i just watched John Wall Youtube for the first time in my life and all I have to say is he is better than Rose alot better.

Wall might be the fastest person I have seen dribble a basketball since a Young Allen Iverson

He is what 6'4 with a huge wingspan sick vertical all he needs to do his hit the weight room for some upper body strength. He plays exactly like a Wade w/o upper body strength.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKSqSJ7-7k

To be honest he still has a long way to go to be in D. Rose's company.

He led Simeon to TWO state titles in IL....*Chicago Public League being one of the toughest sectionals in the country*

If John Wall emerges as the best PG prospect by the end of the college season and makes some noise in the tourney he'll be on his way.

But I don't think Wall is a PG.

BrentISballin

06-21-2009, 02:46 AM

I've played against wall recently, never played against rose, but i'll give an opinion based on what i saw.

Granted the defense Wall was facing during the pick up game i was playin with him was a below nothing compared to nba D, wall's speed and court vision is out of this world. In the pick up game, a college lacross player ( the known fastest guy on the court)decided to D him up, wall got past him, slammed on him, finished on him with ease. So ridiculous. I also think that Wall's shot is a bit more reliable than Rose, also Wall comes out with a much more aggressive approach than Rose's laid back , attack mode 50% of the time approach.Wall's athleticism is obviously among the best. I've seen plenty of in game dunker's but his ability to explode and glide through the air is amazing, and he does it like second nature.I'd like to compare him more to rondo, with a better shot. Wall just has a stronger personality that translates better on the court than rose does IMO.

This report from me is probably worthless as i'm not a great writer, but it's real life experience with him ya?

I honestly think that comparing him right now , still fresh out of highschool is a bit ridiculous.

BeebCats

06-21-2009, 03:09 AM

Wow i just watched John Wall Youtube for the first time in my life and all I have to say is he is better than Rose alot better.

Wall might be the fastest person I have seen dribble a basketball since a Young Allen Iverson

He is what 6'4 with a huge wingspan sick vertical all he needs to do his hit the weight room for some upper body strength. He plays exactly like a Wade w/o upper body strength.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKSqSJ7-7k

How can you say someone is better based on some youtube videos... they only show the good things, and let's remember it's against high school competition. We have a lot more to see from both Rose and Wall, there's no telling which will be better at this point.

Undisputed

06-21-2009, 06:00 AM

How can you say someone is better based on some youtube videos... they only show the good things, and let's remember it's against high school competition. We have a lot more to see from both Rose and Wall, there's no telling which will be better at this point.

Welcome to ISH. Most of the people here just watch a couple YouTube videos and suddenly they think they're experts. :rolleyes:

Interminator

06-22-2009, 02:24 PM

Welcome to ISH. Most of the people here just watch a couple YouTube videos and suddenly they think they're experts. :rolleyes:
This.

Some ***** compared Wall to Foye?:wtf:

TheGame414

06-22-2009, 03:55 PM

This report from me is probably worthless as i'm not a great writer, but it's real life experience with him ya?
The writing was fine, the report is worthless because it was a pickup basketball game against a lacross player.

Rose

06-24-2009, 09:06 PM

This.

Some ***** compared Wall to Foye?:wtf:

Some ***** said he shoots much more than Rose does and hes a more willing passer than Rose. Which makes no sense at all. Also Rose also makes the hard play efficient. Think LeBron makes the easy play when he windmills over a guy? the textbook answer is NO! Think Shawn Marion's shot is a good shot? textbook wise once again NO. but it goes in! As long as it's efficient it really doesn't matter. and since his "flashy" penetration works ....

Jailblazers7

06-25-2009, 01:35 PM

unbreakable

06-26-2009, 05:26 PM

TheGame414

06-27-2009, 12:37 AM

Wall's entire demeanor towards the game of basketball is just better then Rose's.. Wall has that MJ intensity/fire.. he's g0nna be HUGE in the NBA if he stays healthy and keeps his mind on basketball.
Why do people assume that because Derrick Rose doesn't want to yell and scream and make funny faces that he doesn't have as good of a demeanor as he could?

Not doing those things doesn't preclude him from being a vicious competitor. He is. A lot of guys who show it outwardly are displaying false hustle. A lot of guys who keep an even keel are, in fact, just really smart players who also want to rip your heart out and show it to you.

Rose won two state titles in high school, he was the best player on a team that was 10 seconds from an NCAA title as a freshman, and he was rookie of the year and the best player on No. 7 seed that nearly took down the 62-win defending champs (granted, minus KG).

Don't talk to me about things like "intensity/fire." Talk to me about the two of them as basketball players. Tell me what skills John Wall has that will make him as good or better than Derrick Rose, whose career path already suggests that it's reasonable to consider him a future HOFer.

Rose is the proven commodity. Wall is the prospect. Granted, a damn good one. But if you're going to tell me that he's going to be as good as Derrick Rose, or better, I need to hear a much better case than anyone's given me so far in this thread.

(And yes, I'm a Bulls fan. But he also spurned Illinois, so I'm bias-neutral on this one.)

unbreakable

06-27-2009, 12:45 AM

Don't talk to me about things like "intensity/fire." Talk to me about the two of them as basketball players. Tell me what skills John Wall has that will make him as good or better than Derrick Rose, whose career path already suggests that it's reasonable to consider him a future HOFer.

.)

Wall has much better handles.. its not even close. And he's so fast he makes Derrick Rose look like Mike Bibby.

I love Derrick Rose too.. I think he's fantastic, but his demeanor reminds me of Tmac, while Wall's reminds me of Kobe. And if you know anything about professional sports and demeanors, you know what Im talking about...

I could be wrong, but based on what we know right now, Im right.

TheGame414

06-27-2009, 02:53 PM

Wall has much better handles.. its not even close. And he's so fast he makes Derrick Rose look like Mike Bibby.

I love Derrick Rose too.. I think he's fantastic, but his demeanor reminds me of Tmac, while Wall's reminds me of Kobe. And if you know anything about professional sports and demeanors, you know what Im talking about...

I could be wrong, but based on what we know right now, Im right.
I could argue that what separated Kobe from T-Mac had nothing to do with demeanor and everything to do with health and better luck in who they got to play with. Even with that demeanor, McGrady was every bit the player Kobe was through about 2005. What's separated them is McGrady's injuries and Kobe's better teammates. (And I'm not a Kobe hater at all. I think he's the third-best guard of all-time now.)

I would also say that it isn't Kobe or MJ's "demeanor" that made them what they are. It was the insane work ethic and competitiveness, things that aren't necessarily manifested outwardly through facial expressions during games or any silliness like that. And Rose's work ethic can't be questioned, while I have heard those questions about Wall. No idea if they're true or not.

Do you have any idea how asinine it is to say you're right about a total guess that can't be proven right or wrong for several years? By the time John Wall plays his rookie season, Rose will be in his third year and likely be right up there with CP3 and Deron as the best point guards in the game. That's much less of a guess because we've already seen him play in the NBA and he already isn't that far off.

I disagree that Wall has "much better handles." I'd agree that he's unnecessarily flashier, though. And I agree that he's a little faster, but Rose has superb speed combined with unbelievable strength. Wall doesn't have that and I don't think he will.

You can't knock him off his path of where he wants to go. Not even top-flight NBA defenders can do it. He gets one step on you and he's so strong, like Deron, that you're just not keeping him from getting where he's going. Unlike Deron, he also has phemonenal speed.

Only five draft picks this decade have had a faster sprint time than Rose's 3.05 at the NBA combine/predraft camp. So we'll see if Wall really is faster than Rose. I wouldn't be 100% sure of it. Then again, considering that D-Will ran a 3.25 and Paul ran a 3.22, and in the same year fellow Top 5 pick Raymond Felton ran a 3.06....maybe there's more reasons you should give me besides speed for why Wall will be better.

So, again, I have no trouble in conceding that it's possible Wall will be better than Rose. Certainly possible. But if I'm going to accept this before he's played a game of college I'm going to need a way better argument than I have so far.

ukplayer4

07-15-2010, 04:11 PM

Rose

07-15-2010, 04:50 PM

wall is just so out of control all the time, you never see that from rose, although to an extent i feel eventually wall may become a more dangerous player than rose. at the moment wall seems closer to wade in style. wall seems to have a pretty good second jump to tip in his own layups- wade is the best ive ever seen at this tho.

Agreed. I don't think his ceiling is nearly as high as Rose's at least not at point guard. I mean he barely had a 2:1 assist-turnover ratio in college. and in the summer-league thus far he's 1:1. I think the fact he can't pass in summer league says something.

TheGame414

07-15-2010, 06:12 PM

Agreed. I don't think his ceiling is nearly as high as Rose's at least not at point guard. I mean he barely had a 2:1 assist-turnover ratio in college. and in the summer-league thus far he's 1:1. I think the fact he can't pass in summer league says something.
No, it doesn't say anything. Summer league means nothing for elite guys except just getting on the court and getting your feet wet a little bit against a slightly higher level of competition than you played against in college. It means everything for guys trying to get a roster spot, but it's foolish to try to glean anything about the John Walls of the world from the summer league.

His college stats don't mean all that much more, for that matter.

Rose

07-15-2010, 06:34 PM

No, it doesn't say anything. Summer league means nothing for elite guys except just getting on the court and getting your feet wet a little bit against a slightly higher level of competition than you played against in college. It means everything for guys trying to get a roster spot, but it's foolish to try to glean anything about the John Walls of the world from the summer league.

His college stats don't mean all that much more, for that matter.

How it can it not mean something? he should DOMINATE this competition. Like you said it's slightly higher competition he should just be getting his feet wet learning how defenses are going to react and the like. But giving up eight turnovers? come on. the guy is a potential rookie of the year. And if you disregard college stats, then that means going back to high school. where Avery Bradley was higher ranked out of high school, was the better player, and was more of a point guard.

Bottomline he should be dominating. or at least looking good.

TheGame414

07-15-2010, 07:16 PM

It doesn't say anything about him because it doesn't mean anything. Look at the history of summer league performances and find me one common thread that indicates anything for top-level guys. Darius Miles had a better summer league than LeBron, for god's sake. Your reasoning would be fine and well if these were games that mattered. But they're organized pickup games.

Do not waste energy trying to learn something about a guy like John Wall from a summer league game. For a guy trying to get a job, it means everything. For John Wall, it's just a hastily thrown together team with the most basic of playbooks and there's nothing you can learn about him. These games mean nothing to his NBA future. The most important thing is staying healthy.

And I didn't disregard college stats. There's just too many variables with college teams, systems and levels of competition to take them at face value. If they mean everything, then Demetri McCamey is as good as John Wall.