Prime Riddick Bowe vs. 1990's Mike Tyson

[Lebron23]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y55ILMm6kSI/RzMp2T5dJ2I/AAAAAAAAA9E/38bdzhPjZyo/s400/Riddick+Bowe.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/9vcmip.jpg


Who wins?


Riddick Bowe defeated Holyfield Twice in the 1990's, and I felt that he's one of the most underrated heavyweight champion of all time.

Prime Riddick Bowe had the size advantage, great jab, good power and a solid chin that's why I couldn't see Mike Tyson hurting him in the earlier rounds.

I could see Bowe stopping Mike Tyson in the 9th Round.

I also felt that a Prime Bowe would destroy and school the Klitschko Brothers, and dominate the current Heavyweight Division.

Tale of the Tape


Riddick Bowe

Height: 6'5"
Reach: 81"
Record: 43 wins, 1 losses, 1 Draw (33 KO's)

Mike Tyson


Height: 5'10"
Reach: 71"
Record: 50 wins, 6 losses, (44 KO's)

[Lebron23Jordan]

Tyson would Knock Him out

[RedBlackAttack]

IMHO, a prime Riddick Bowe would have beaten any version of Tyson. Mike never showed me the ability to adapt to his opponent or that he could handle adversity. He would have had to do both against a fighter the caliber of Bowe.

I'd take Bowe via late round TKO over any version of Tyson.

[tastystaci]

Tyson would Knock Him out

:roll: no. But he probably would've bit Bowe's nipple off, since that's as high as he could reach on Riddick. :roll:

[WADE MONEY]

:roll: no. But he probably would've bit Bowe's nipple off, since that's as high as he could reach on Riddick. :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Smokee]

This is retarded if you were alive for both. Tyson was way more dominating in his prime. Tyson's a legend. Bowe was a champ and not much more than that.

[tastystaci]

This is retarded if you were alive for both. Tyson was way more dominating in his prime. Tyson's a legend. Bowe was a champ and not much more than that.

Your retarded. Tyson beat up on bums, was all hype. Bowe would've MURDERED prime Tyson. Please STFU like you know boxing, because you clearly don't :roll:

[Smokee]

Your retarded. Tyson beat up on bums, was all hype. Bowe would've MURDERED prime Tyson. Please STFU like you know boxing, because you clearly don't :roll:


Look lil kid, if you were alive for both and not a blind retard it was obvious Tyson was dominating to the point of being feared like no boxer was. Bowe was a good figher but in their primes Tyson blows him away.

You're either one of them boxing purist ******s that only likes jab and move fighters, or a blind 7 yr old retard.

[iamgine]

1990's Mike? You mean the post-prison mike? That old man? lol he couldn't even beat Holyfield, and Holyfield was so washed up at that point, he had to resort to headbutting tactic.

Prime Tyson however, will knock out anyone from any era.

[tastystaci]

Look lil kid, if you were alive for both and not a blind retard it was obvious Tyson was dominating to the point of being feared like no boxer was. Bowe was a good figher but in their primes Tyson blows him away.

You're either one of them boxing purist ******s that only likes jab and move fighters, or a blind 7 yr old retard.

:roll: Great post f*ckstick.

Answer me this genius. Who the f*ck did Tyson ever beat? I know he was completely manhandled by Buster Douglas and Holyfield, but really, who did he ever beat. All he did was smash scared ass bums that Don King put in front of him. When he actually fought a bum who wasn't scared(Buster Douglas) he was exposed. Bowe would not have been scared, he would of pummled Tyson from the outside. I honestly would bet every penny I had if this hypothetical matchup could happen.

[Smokee]

:roll: Great post f*ckstick.

Answer me this genius. Who the f*ck did Tyson ever beat? I know he was completely manhandled by Buster Douglas and Holyfield, but really, who did he ever beat. All he did was smash scared ass bums that Don King put in front of him. When he actually fought a bum who wasn't scared(Buster Douglas) he was exposed. Bowe would not have been scared, he would of pummled Tyson from the outside. I honestly would bet every penny I had if this hypothetical matchup could happen.


This isn't even an argument jackass. Any boxing fan will tell you Tyson in his prime is a legend. Bowe was just a champ. You think i'm going to waste my time trying to convince some punk 7 yr old on a bball forum right from wrong? Common sense from stupid?

You're just a dumbass :rolleyes:

[tastystaci]

This isn't even an argument jackass. Any boxing fan will tell you Tyson in his prime is a legend. Bowe was just a champ. You think i'm going to waste my time trying to convince some punk 7 yr old on a bball forum right from wrong? Common sense from stupid?

You're just a dumbass :rolleyes:

Runaway with your tail between your legs you f*ckin clown :roll:

[Smokee]

Runaway with your tail between your legs you f*ckin clown :roll:


dude its common sense. All you can talk about is when Tyson was old and washed up. You think his prime was Holyfield or Douglass? Like i said lil boy, you're just as dumb as the Kobe fans comparing him to MJ with this **** :rolleyes:

[plowking]

Is this a joke?

It seems to be that most boxing fans pick against Mike as it seems to make them look more knowledgable. In actual fact it does the complete opposite. Mike in his prime, before prison, was possibly the greatest fighter ever. The guy was one of the best, if not the best techincal, yes technical boxers there has ever been. Furthermore, hitting power, it was off the charts. Though another facet of Mike's that gets underrated is his speed and defense. Mike was incredibly conditioned, to the point where he was always moving in the ring, and always had his head weaving going. Furthermore his punching speed was amazing. There was a report posted on youtube that showed Mike laying out 4 punch combos in under a second. I mean for a heavyweight, that is just damn incredible.

Mike Tyson is, and always will be the most underrated boxer of all time, most likely due to the competition he faced, which is overblown, and due to the character he was off and on the court. Boxing fans refuse to give him credit because of this.

[Smokee]

Is this a joke?

It seems to be that most boxing fans pick against Mike as it seems to make them look more knowledgable. In actual fact it does the complete opposite. Mike in his prime, before prison, was possibly the greatest fighter ever. The guy was one of the best, if not the best techincal, yes technical boxers there has ever been. Furthermore, hitting power, it was off the charts. Though another facet of Mike's that gets underrated is his speed and defense. Mike was incredibly conditioned, to the point where he was always moving in the ring, and always had his head weaving going. Furthermore his punching speed was amazing. There was a report posted on youtube that showed Mike laying out 4 punch combos in under a second. I mean for a heavyweight, that is just damn incredible.

Mike Tyson is, and always will be the most underrated boxer of all time, most likely due to the competition he faced, which is overblown, and due to the character he was off and on the court. Boxing fans refuse to give him credit because of this.


A lot of it is because newer generations have seen him do the crazy stuff like biting, tatooing his face, and still looking big but not having that fire. People don't realize how feared Tyson was in his prime and how much he dominated the sport. He was right there with Michael Jackson and Michael Jordan as some of the most memorable entertainers of the 80's. I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan, but i loved watching MJ play, and Tyson fight back then. That was basically my whole sports world.

[tastystaci]

A lot of it is because newer generations have seen him do the crazy stuff like biting, tatooing his face, and still looking big but not having that fire. People don't realize how feared Tyson was in his prime and how much he dominated the sport. He was right there with Michael Jackson and Michael Jordan as some of the most memorable entertainers of the 80's. I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan, but i loved watching MJ play, and Tyson fight back then. That was basically my whole sports world.

You said it. He was entertaining. And I grew up during the 80's, I saw plenty of his fights, not just a youtube vid of his knockouts. He was a destroyer of bums, that is until he met Buster Douglas BEFORE prison. Riddick Bowe was 44-1, the ONE loss coming in a decision against Evander Holyfield, who Bowe beat two other times. A guy who completely destroyed Tyson, who was also well out of his prime. Bowe was more of a headcase than Tyson, coming to matches embarrassingly out of shape which is why HE is the one underrated, not Mike Tyson like the other clown Plowking stated.

[Smokee]

You said it. He was entertaining. And I grew up during the 80's, I saw plenty of his fights, not just a youtube vid of his knockouts. He was a destroyer of bums, that is until he met Buster Douglas BEFORE prison. Riddick Bowe was 44-1, the ONE loss coming in a decision against Evander Holyfield, who Bowe beat two other times. A guy who completely destroyed Tyson, who was also well out of his prime. Bowe was more of a headcase than Tyson, coming to matches embarrassingly out of shape which is why HE is the one underrated, not Mike Tyson like the other clown Plowking stated.


Why do you keep talking about Buster like he was some good fighter? That **** would've never happened when Tyson was in his prime. That was exactly where he started going downhill.

I saw Bowe fight a lot. He's from DC near where i live but there is no way you could put him on Tyson's level in his prime. Just no f'in way and its a goddamn travesty anyone would even try to reinvent history like that :ohwell:

[plowking]

Don't worry about him Smokee, he will just tell you the sport is rigged just like the NBA, and that every finals is decided by the commisioner of the sport. Forget him, it's only time the conspiracy theories start popping up from his side.

[tastystaci]

Why do you keep talking about Buster like he was some good fighter? That **** would've never happened when Tyson was in his prime. That was exactly where he started going downhill.

I saw Bowe fight a lot. He's from DC near where i live but there is no way you could put him on Tyson's level in his prime. Just no f'in way and its a goddamn travesty anyone would even try to reinvent history like that :ohwell:

Douglas put Tyson on the canvas on Feb 11, 1990. TYSON WAS 24 YEARS OLD!!! WTF are you talking about??? :roll: You and Plowking should just run away. You are both epic f*ckin failures. Tyson was an overhyped bum, Riddick would've smashed him. Now GTFO.

[plowking]

Douglas put Tyson on the canvas on Feb 11, 1990. TYSON WAS 24 YEARS OLD!!! WTF are you talking about??? :roll: You and Plowking should just run away. You are both epic f*ckin failures. Tyson was an overhyped bum, Riddick would've smashed him. Now GTFO.

Funnily enough it was at the time Tyson's mentor Kevin Rooney had left him. Another coincidence was right after this he completely forgot what he was taught and started going for the one punch K.O. from the very beginning of the fight.

If you knew anything about Tyson or his career you would know that once D'Amato died, and Rooney left him, he was a complete mess. The Tyson with Rooney by his side would have destroyed Bowe, and easily may I add.

[RedBlackAttack]

It seems to be that most boxing fans pick against Mike as it seems to make them look more knowledgable. In actual fact it does the complete opposite. Mike in his prime, before prison, was possibly the most overrated athlete ever.
Fixed your post.

My goodness... Tyson is so overrated by the masses that it makes me sick to my stomach. I can't even muster up the energy to respond to the idiocy in this thread.

[Jackass18]

Man, some people sure do like putting Tyson up on an invincible pedestal... What do you think about this article?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/167858-mike-tyson-overrated-overhyped-or-simply-misunderstood

[Doomsday Dallas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryV4G4wLdFk

THIS IS HOW THE FIGHT WOULD END^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[RedBlackAttack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryV4G4wLdFk

THIS IS HOW THE FIGHT WOULD END^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah... Because Bowe was exactly like Razor Ruddock... Btw, Tommy Morrison knocked out Ruddock in two rounds a couple of years after Tyson beat him. :oldlol: Real quality win, there.

[Zombles]

Vitali Klitschko would put up a better fight against Bowe than a pre/post/whateverthe****ever version of Tyson. Mentally Mike had deteriorated tremendously by the time of his first loss, but he never beat anyone. Looked great against cans? Sure. One of the most destructive of all time? Yeah. But he never beat anybody.

People always hate on the K-brothers because their competition is weak, but Vitali is a damn fine boxer. Would have been a damn fine boxer in any era. Cat's had some real bad luck with injuries and cuts but he's a much better fighter than his brother.

[White Chocolate]

90s Tyson was absolute garbage. Bowe would easily win.

[halffttime]

prime riddick bowe would probably knock out 1990's mike tyson but prime mike tyson in the late 80's would stand a great chance against anyone in their prime.

[halffttime]

Douglas put Tyson on the canvas on Feb 11, 1990. TYSON WAS 24 YEARS OLD!!! WTF are you talking about??? :roll: You and Plowking should just run away. You are both epic f*ckin failures. Tyson was an overhyped bum, Riddick would've smashed him. Now GTFO.

tyson knocked him out cold the previous round, and douglas got up to an obvious long count by the referee..

so on one corner, you got an overly-motivated douglas whose been training hard and whose mother just passed 2 weeks prior to the fight... and on the other you got a tyson who's been partying, got knocked out by his sparring partner, and doesn't give a fukc about training..

and STILL, tyson knocked him out, and should have won if the referee counted at normal pace...

:rolleyes:

just saying.. and i'm not pretending to be an expert cause i'm not (RBA :rolleyes: ), i'm just stating the facts.. :D

[Dasher]

Mike Tyson gets more excuses made for him than any other athlete in the history of sports. If he was so mentally fragile, that he could not handle losing his mentors, then he was not that great in the first place. As for the question, give me Riddick Bowe, who in my opinion never lost to Evander Holyfield.

[Tarik One]

As for the question, give me Riddick Bowe, who in my opinion never lost to Evander Holyfield.

Bowe knocked his ass out in their 3rd fight. Explain that.

[Gundress]

Problem is the 90s weren't his absolute prime. Bowe by decision. He wouldn't commit enough to get him out of there.

[RedBlackAttack]

Mike Tyson gets more excuses made for him than any other athlete in the history of sports.
No doubt...

"Cus died and he was never the same."
"He went to prison and it messed up his head."
"He didn't train hard and he was partying."
"He didn't take his medication."
"He did take his medication."

Blah, blah, blah, blah...

The excuses are never ending.

Here is the truth, for those that want to accept it.

Mike Tyson was a fighter who showed a lot of promise, but never fulfilled his expectations (or even came close). People loved him because he was a great power puncher that was exciting to watch. He was also a mental midget who could never handle adversity and never beat another truly elite fighter of his generation.

People want to hold on to the myth of Tyson because they grew up idolizing him and they believe if they let go of that vicious image, they will be letting go of a piece of their childhood. I grew up watching and loving Mike's style, too, but at some point, you have to think rationally.

His resume is absolutely weak and he was completely dominated by two other great fighters of his generation.

If any other athlete in any other sport received the amount of excuses and free passes that Tyson does, people would laugh it off as some kind of joke. For some reason, otherwise perfectly reasonable people toss these excuses around as some kind of validation for their hero.

Tyson = Most Overrated Athlete Ever

[tastystaci]

No doubt...

"Cus died and he was never the same."
"He went to prison and it messed up his head."
"He didn't train hard and he was partying."
"He didn't take his medication."
"He did take his medication."

Blah, blah, blah, blah...

The excuses are never ending.

Here is the truth, for those that want to accept it.

Mike Tyson was a fighter who showed a lot of promise, but never fulfilled his expectations (or even came close). People loved him because he was a great power puncher that was exciting to watch. He was also a mental midget who could never handle adversity and never beat another truly elite fighter of his generation.

People want to hold on to the myth of Tyson because they grew up idolizing him and they believe if they let go of that vicious image, they will be letting go of a piece of their childhood. I grew up watching and loving Mike's style, too, but at some point, you have to think rationally.

His resume is absolutely weak and he was completely dominated by two other great fighters of his generation.

If any other athlete in any other sport received the amount of excuses and free passes that Tyson does, people would laugh it off as some kind of joke. For some reason, otherwise perfectly reasonable people toss these excuses around as some kind of validation for their hero.

Tyson = Most Overrated Athlete Ever

Can you say, "hitting the nail on the head"? :confusedshrug:

[~primetime~]

Tyson = Most Overrated Athlete Ever
I think you are right...no other athlete comes to mind...

have you seen all the EA commericials of Tyson knocking out Ali?

they make me shake my head in disgust...

but hey, I guess that is what everyone wants from that game, to be able to play as Tyson...

[RedBlackAttack]

but hey, I guess that is what everyone wants from that game, to be able to play as Tyson...
...and that is what most people want to believe.

Let me make this point clear... I loved Mike Tyson as a kid. I grew up in the 80s, too. There was a time when I thought that Mike was the greatest fighter I had ever seen. Then, I grew up and realized the truth.

Even as an adult, I openly cheered for Mike both times against Evander and even diluted myself into believing that he had a chance against Lewis (even though, deep down, I knew he was going to get dismantled).

I was as big a Tyson fan as anyone on this board. There came a point, though, where I had to examine why I rooted for this guy and why I was willing to discard the facts of his underwhelming career in favor of embracing the myth.

I wanted to believe that the guy I watched crush everyone through my early introduction to boxing was what I always wanted him to be. I've gone back and watched his early fights since my realization and it is readily apparent just how bad the competition was in the mid-80s.

Tyson always had major flaws and had he been pushed by a fighter the caliber of Bowe or Lewis or Holyfield early in his career, he would have folded like he always did when he faced adversity. Tyson is absolutely no better than the fourth best heavyweight of his own generation (maybe lower) and people are still clinging to this myth that he was the best ever at 19. :no:

[lefthook00]

Bowe. Too big and strong and too good at using his size/strength in his prime.

[Gundress]

No doubt...

"Cus died and he was never the same."
"He went to prison and it messed up his head."
"He didn't train hard and he was partying."
"He didn't take his medication."
"He did take his medication."

Blah, blah, blah, blah...

The excuses are never ending.

Here is the truth, for those that want to accept it.

Mike Tyson was a fighter who showed a lot of promise, but never fulfilled his expectations (or even came close). People loved him because he was a great power puncher that was exciting to watch. He was also a mental midget who could never handle adversity and never beat another truly elite fighter of his generation.

People want to hold on to the myth of Tyson because they grew up idolizing him and they believe if they let go of that vicious image, they will be letting go of a piece of their childhood. I grew up watching and loving Mike's style, too, but at some point, you have to think rationally.

His resume is absolutely weak and he was completely dominated by two other great fighters of his generation.

If any other athlete in any other sport received the amount of excuses and free passes that Tyson does, people would laugh it off as some kind of joke. For some reason, otherwise perfectly reasonable people toss these excuses around as some kind of validation for their hero.

Tyson = Most Overrated Athlete Ever


You're right about Tyson never proving himself against the best.

You're wrong about discrediting Tyson in fights where he was clearly no longer the same fighter. It was visible as day he wasn't the same man when he came up short. You'd actually have to study footage of the man to know the difference between a prime Tyson and one who was past it.

The problems Tyson came against weren't experienced by the other great Heavyweights. Did Dundee die on Ali? No. Don't act like losing arguably the greatest trainer of all time wouldn't have adversely affected Ali's career. That'd just be dumb.

So at the end of the day we guess. Tyson was clearly a great fighter at his best but we don't know how great he was. Hence no one really rates him in the first half of the top 10. I see no problem putting him in the second half however. If not there, he's in the top 15. That's pretty universal among historians. And it's not over rating the man. It's making a safe guess.

[RedBlackAttack]

You're right about Tyson never proving himself against the best.

You're wrong about discrediting Tyson in fights where he was clearly no longer the same fighter. It was visible as day he wasn't the same man when he came up short. You'd actually have to study footage of the man to know the difference between a prime Tyson and one who was past it.

The problems Tyson came against weren't experienced by the other great Heavyweights. Did Dundee die on Ali? No. Don't act like losing arguably the greatest trainer of all time wouldn't have adversely affected Ali's career. That'd just be dumb.

So at the end of the day we guess. Tyson was clearly a great fighter at his best but we don't know how great he was. Hence no one really rates him in the first half of the top 10. I see no problem putting him in the second half however. If not there, he's in the top 15. That's pretty universal among historians. And it's not over rating the man. It's making a safe guess.
:yawn:

I've heard all of the excuses, so save your breath. I've also seen every Tyson fight, including many of his amateur bouts. The funny thing to me is that when he got out of prison, Tyson went back to doing exactly what he had done in the mid-80s to earn his unbeatable reputation... Dominating bums.

He KOed Peter McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr., Frank Bruno, Bruce Seldon...

One thing about Tyson was that, if he was better than a fighter, he would absolutely dominate them, regardless of whether or not it was a complete bum like McNeeley or a pretty good fighter like Bruno. He made a lot of pretty good fighters look really bad, which is why so many people became so fascinated with him.

After he tore apart Bruno and Seldon, I remember everyone saying that "he is back" and "he is unbeatable." Most people don't remember this (or choose to forget it), but very few people thought Holyfield would make it through a few rounds with Tyson. Mike had his head movement against Seldon and Bruno... He was hitting hard to the head and body... He looked like the same guy that dominated the division in the mid-80s.

The fact is, he was the same guy that dominated the class in the mid-80s. The only problem was, he never had to face a guy like Holyfield. As soon as Evander came out and showed no fear of Tyson and actually began roughing him up with veteran 'dirtiness,' Tyson's flimsy mental capacity shown through and he stopped moving his head and became strictly a head hunter.

Then, after Holyfield absolutely toyed with him and KOed him, Tyson was over-the-hill... At the grand old age of 29... And after everyone had proclaimed that he was 'back' after dominating Bruno and Seldon, two guys who were comparable to the best competition he faced in the 80s.

That was always something that interested me.... Tyson became 'over the hill' when it suited his fans. Sorry... That isn't how it works. He was in great condition and coming off of two of his biggest wins heading into the Holyfield fight. He was far from over the hill... He was in over his head against a guy that was flat-out better than him.... That was the problem, not his age or condition or trainer.

Boxing is a sport that is about more than just who hits hardest and who looks the toughest. When you are going against a fellow great fighter, you have to be able to adapt during the fight and, sometimes, during a round. Tyson never showed any ability to do that. It had nothing to do with Cus and nothing to do with any personal problems he was having outside of the ring.... He was just not an intelligent fighter. He was very strong and showed some pretty good skill at a young age, but when it came to ring smarts, he was pathetic.

Tyson always lacked what separates the good fighters from the great fighters... He couldn't adapt during the course of a fight and he showed absolutely no ability to control his temper.

These shortcomings won't show against guys like Mitch Blood Green or Tony Tubbs or Frank Bruno... They will against Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.

Now, throw some more excuses at me. The guy is flat-out overrated. There is no way around it.

[RedBlackAttack]

Hence no one really rates him in the first half of the top 10. I see no problem putting him in the second half however. If not there, he's in the top 15. That's pretty universal among historians. And it's not over rating the man. It's making a safe guess.
The Top 10-15 of what, btw? Please tell me you are not talking about pound-for-pound, all-time. Even if you are talking about Top 10-15 heavyweights all-time, that is ridiculous.

He should not be rated in front of Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, or Riddick Bowe... And those are just guys that were in his own f#cking era.

[Smokee]

Ya'll are ****ing retarded :rolleyes:

Tyson in his prime would've ****ed Bowe up. Arguably Ali. Yeah i said it. So many retards love to reinvent history but Bowe was nowhere near the level of Tyson in his prime. Tyson WAS boxing back then. A whole era. He even transcended the sport to non boxing fans watching him.

Say what you want about the competition, but i'll bet you they all would've held their own today in the heavyweight division. Its just that Tyson made people look bad because they were scared of him once he built up his rep. It was crazy how feared Tyson was within boxing at one point where boxers would choke from fear of getting hit. Never seen anything like that in boxing.

[~primetime~]

Ya'll are ****ing retarded :rolleyes:

Tyson in his prime would've ****ed Bowe up. Arguably Ali. Yeah i said it. So many retards love to reinvent history but Bowe was nowhere near the level of Tyson in his prime. Tyson WAS boxing back then. A whole era. He even transcended the sport to non boxing fans watching him.

Say what you want about the competition, but i'll bet you they all would've held their own today in the heavyweight division. Its just that Tyson made people look bad because they were scared of him once he built up his rep. It was crazy how feared Tyson was within boxing at one point where boxers would choke from fear of getting hit. Never seen anything like that in boxing.
Tyson in his prime would have gotten the piss beat out of him by Holyfeild...

oh wait, that pretty much happened...

[Smokee]

Tyson in his prime would have gotten the piss beat out of him by Holyfeild...

oh wait, that pretty much happened...


How many times do people have to tell you that was when Tyson got stupid and crazy, painted his face, was biting off ears, bought a tiger, post rape ****ed up kid. That isn't Tyson in his prime.

This argument is as retarded as the Kobe comparisons to MJ :banghead:

[~primetime~]

the first time Holyfeild and Tyson fought Evander was 34 YEARS OLD!!!

Tyson had already been through a few fights post jail, knocking out tomato cans like he did before he was in jail, and he was what, the ripe old age of 28 at the time he first fought Evander?



I find it hard to belive things would have been any different and it is all speculation anyway...

and even with speculation, all the eveidence points to Evander beating his ass in the ring anyway...there is much more reason to assume Evander would have won pre-jail than Tyson...

[iamgine]

Tyson had everything a boxer would want at one point. Legendary trainer, blinding speed, animal ferocity, multiple combinations, advanced techniques, deadly power, impeccable defense and ultimate confidence. Unbeatable. It's sad he lacked the discipline and desire to maintain those things without somebody helping him. He'd KO anyone from any era on any given night.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tyson had everything a boxer would want at one point.
Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.

[RedBlackAttack]

This argument is as retarded as the Kobe comparisons to MJ :banghead:
After reading your posts in this thread, it is an absolute oxymoron to be calling anyone else 'retarded.' Your posts lack any semblance of historical perspective or intelligence, for that matter.

[~primetime~]

Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.

he lacked endurance too...

take him past the 6th round and it was Mike that was the tomato can...

[Smokee]

Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.


thats all reinvented hindsight BS. Anyone alive back then following it could clearly see the downward spiral during which every fight you idiots are pretending to talk about were clearly a part of. y'all need to stop reinventing this BS in your heads and terrible memories.

[Smokee]

After reading your posts in this thread, it is an absolute oxymoron to be calling anyone else 'retarded.' Your posts lack any semblance of historical perspective or intelligence, for that matter.


cominig from the boxing purist fggt that can't accept anythinig but jab and move fighters, i think you should stfu.

lmao @ Holyfield better than Tyson in his prime. You're a dumbass and probably 6 yrs old and wasn't even alive back then.

[RedBlackAttack]

thats all reinvented hindsight BS. Anyone alive back then following it could clearly see the downward spiral during which every fight you idiots are pretending to talk about were clearly a part of. y'all need to stop reinventing this BS in your heads and terrible memories.
:oldlol:

Yes... Because you've shown so much boxing knowledge and you've broken down Tyson's early career so well. You've done nothing but repeat the same phrases over and over.

Why don't you explain to me how the guy that beat the hell out of Mike Jameson and Jesse Furguson was completely different than the guy that beat the hell out of Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon. Let's hear your breakdown Mr. Expert.

[~primetime~]

cominig from the boxing purist fggt that can't accept anythinig but jab and move fighters, i think you should stfu.

lmao @ Holyfield better than Tyson in his prime. You're a dumbass and probably 6 yrs old and wasn't even alive back then.
I was out of high school...

as far as fighting technique Tyson looked no different at all than he did pre-jail...

in fact, he looked much more cut and in shape coming out of jail:

http://www.hurricanepetermcneeley.com/Images/Weighin.JPG


the only thing that I will admitt that did change for Tyson coming out was his attitude and mentality...

but in the ring, he looked no different to me...

he looked like the exact same Tyson that lost to Douglas...

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/richard_obrien/07/24/cheating.boxing/t1-tyson.holyfield.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00689/sport-graphics-2008_689936a.jpg

[RedBlackAttack]

cominig from the boxing purist fggt that can't accept anythinig but jab and move fighters, i think you should stfu.

lmao @ Holyfield better than Tyson in his prime. You're a dumbass and probably 6 yrs old and wasn't even alive back then.
I've forgotten far more about boxing than you'll ever know, dipsh!t.

[Smokee]

:oldlol:

Yes... Because you've shown so much boxing knowledge and you've broken down Tyson's early career so well. You've done nothing but repeat the same phrases over and over.

Why don't you explain to me how the guy that beat the hell out of Mike Jameson and Jesse Furguson was completely different than the guy that beat the hell out of Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon. Let's hear your breakdown Mr. Expert.



Wtf are you talking about? Were you or weren't you alive back then and into boxing? Or are you googling this ****? Its hard to believe if you were that you don't even know the time line of Tyson's downward spiral because it was front page news throughout it all, and i have no clue why the hell you keep bringing up **** that was clearly during his downside as his prime.

Its just common sense if you were into boxing at all back then but thats why arguing this is just as stupid as trying to argue MJ vs Kobe because its pointless, you can't win with people who didn't see it. Its just a shame how you alzheimer retards reinvent reality :ohwell:

[Smokee]

I've forgotten far more about boxing than you'll ever know, dipsh!t.


I knew you were a nerd-ass purist fggt. People like you see things one sided and having to fit a mold to be good so you end up with the retard perspective you have. You can't give credit where credit is due because they don't fit it.

You know i'm right. Lots of *****es like you for every sport :violin:

[Smokee]

I was out of high school...

as far as fighting technique Tyson looked no different at all than he did pre-jail...

in fact, he looked much more cut and in shape coming out of jail:

http://www.hurricanepetermcneeley.com/Images/Weighin.JPG


the only thing that I will admitt that did change for Tyson coming out was his attitude and mentality...

but in the ring, he looked no different to me...

he looked like the exact same Tyson that lost to Douglas...

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/richard_obrien/07/24/cheating.boxing/t1-tyson.holyfield.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00689/sport-graphics-2008_689936a.jpg


Thats what i said earlier. He was still fit and if anyting looked stockier, but everyone knew his psyche wasn't there, and back then everyone pinned it on Rooney controlling him vs Don King giving him whatever he wanted. And even then he was doing **** like headbutts, biting off ears, it was obvious he was ****ed up in the head. Boxers don't do **** like that, especially ones that have been through the amount of fights he's had. If anything prison might've ****ed him up more, and he hired those muslim jail guys to manage him or some **** if i remember right :lol: Either way Tyson during that time was completely different than the prime one, and its too bad people reinvent because they forget all of the things that happened in and outside of boxing that made the spiral obvious.

[iamgine]

Sure Tyson was a mental midget, lacked intelligence, lacked confidence, lacked any mental capacity, weak, etc etc. That's why you have people like Cus around him to help him in that area. With his trainer, he was very smart, disciplined and had the ultimate confidence in himself. Without, he was a weak man, back to being a ghetto kid, easily exposed.

Legendary trainer, blinding speed, animal ferocity, multiple combinations, advanced techniques, deadly power, impeccable defense and ultimate confidence. Unbeatable. Tyson will KO anyone from any era on any given night.

[halffttime]

ok RBA got me.. :(

mike tyson IS over-rated..

but can we atleast agree that tyson is one of the fastest, strongest, most skilled heavyweight ever? i'm not a boxing expert, but i'm familiar with the big names. i don't think i've ever seen a heavyweight move like that. ali was fast, but tyson was a different kinda fast. he was quick on his feet, slipped under jabs, threw the hook to the body and finished with an uppercut. i've never seen punches landed with such power and accuracy like that..

if you have, link me :D

[halffttime]

as far as fighting technique Tyson looked no different at all than he did pre-jail...

someone aware him.. :oldlol:

[Gundress]

The Top 10-15 of what, btw? Please tell me you are not talking about pound-for-pound, all-time. Even if you are talking about Top 10-15 heavyweights all-time, that is ridiculous.

He should not be rated in front of Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, or Riddick Bowe... And those are just guys that were in his own f#cking era.

Everyone rates him over Bowe. And I was talking about Heavyweights. You think he was the same fighter after the late 80s, most do not. And I don't agree that he dominated every good fighter he faced if he was better than them. I saw no domination of Razor Ruddock among several others. That theory doesn't fly.

What also doesn't fly is talking about what the majority of fans thought. I'm not talking about fans, I'm talking about people who know boxing.

[RedBlackAttack]

ok RBA got me.. :(

mike tyson IS over-rated..

but can we atleast agree that tyson is one of the fastest, strongest, most skilled heavyweight ever? i'm not a boxing expert, but i'm familiar with the big names. i don't think i've ever seen a heavyweight move like that. ali was fast, but tyson was a different kinda fast. he was quick on his feet, slipped under jabs, threw the hook to the body and finished with an uppercut. i've never seen punches landed with such power and accuracy like that..

if you have, link me :D
Tyson did have freakish athleticism, but not the GOAT athleticism in HW history. In fact, there was a boxer that very few casual boxing fans have even seen that may have been the most physically skilled HW that I have ever seen.

His name was Ike Ibeabuchi. He gave David Tua his first loss in one of the greatest heavyweight fights of all-time. He also KOed Chris Byrd in brutal fashion. Unfortunately, he was batsh!t insane and ended up holding a prostitute hostage because he thought that she was the devil.

He is still in jail. His boxing career ended with an undefeated record and he was on the verge of taking over the division when he was arrested.

Ibeabuchi was like a Lennox Lewis/Mike Tyson hybrid with the chin of Ali.

Here he is brutally brutalizing Chris Byrd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7AZTLHFx7o) with an uppercut/hook punch that became known as Ibeabuchi's 'hookercut.'

Here is a highlight package (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQStB2IRWOo) of his fight against Tua. It is my personal opinion that Tua was never the same after this fight. Ibeabuchi took everything that Tua could throw and didn't even flinch. He hit Tua with some absolutely brutal combinations. Btw, this highlight package consists of mainly Tua highlights. There were far more Ike highlights in the fight that aren't shown, but this shows the kind of chin that Ike had.

I think the whole fight is on youtube. If you get some time, watch it.

The sports world really missed out when Ibeabuchi went nuts. I believe that he would have beaten Lennox Lewis... And I hold Lewis in very high regard. Ike had the physical tools to be one of the best heavyweights of all-time. Hell... I think Tua may have beaten Lewis had he not run into Ibeabuchi first. Tua was a great, great fighter that literally had years taken off of his career in that one fight.

[Smokee]

http://www.boxingdaily.co.uk/mike-tyson-goes-from-bad-to-worse/

[Smokee]

What also doesn't fly is talking about what the majority of fans thought. I'm not talking about fans, I'm talking about people who know boxing.


Most people who know boxing will say Tyson is one of the top fighters ever. Even then thats just an opinion since i think the supposed know-it-alls for every sport never know as much as some people want to always give them credit for since they see the same thigns as you. But whatever. Just google it and you'll see countless more opinions, even by the 'experts' praising Tyson in his prime vs his obvious fall off...

and Bowe is nowhere to be mentioned :rolleyes:

[Jackass18]

It's not worth it to argue with Tyson ******gers. They believe he could KO Godzilla. They grew up idolizing him, so now they have a warped perception of him. They sweep away all his flaws and criticisms with various excuses and then they blow all of his positives way out of proportion until he becomes Superman. No wait, they think he'd KO Superman in the 2nd round.

[Gundress]

Nope... He always lacked intelligence... Inside and out of the ring. He also always lacked discipline... Inside and outside the ring. Cus let him get away with everything just short of murder.

Tyson is/always was a mental midget and that is a serious pitfall for any fighter. Boxing is about more than physical tools. It is called the sweet science for a reason.

An old Holyfield would have owned any version of Tyson. The argument that Tyson's prime spanned from 18-20 years of age is laughable at best. People refuse to accept that he fought NO ONE during his short reign at the top of the division.

It is an interesting coincidence that Tyson suddenly 'got old' when he started finally fighting guys that could match his skills in the ring.

...the most overrated athlete of all-time and it isn't even close. People just don't want to accept it.

He didn't get old, he just stopped being trained properly. He became a celebrity. A HUGE celebrity. Seeing how he lost the good people that worked with him and surrounding himself with negative influences afterward, it ate him alive.

[sonicman]

I think Tua may have beaten Lewis had he not run into Ibeabuchi first. Tua was a great, great fighter that literally had years taken off of his career in that one fight.

You are probably the most knowledgable boxing poster on here RedBlackAttack, but there is no way Tua ever beats Lennox Lewis in a fight. Lennox had the reach and that excellent jab to keep Tua away from him, especially since Tua was what like 5'9"?
Theres no way Tua can get inside to do some damage when he has such a height/reach disadvantage.
Not to mention Lennox has the power in the right hand to keep him honest.

I feel that Lennox Lewis cops a lot of disrespect from the public and the boxing community. He would give just about any heavyweight in history fits. Theres noone with that combination of power, speed, height, reach and weight. About the only thing he has wrong is a suspect chin, but you can't deny that he took on everybody and cleaned out the division.

[Dasher]

Bowe knocked his ass out in their 3rd fight. Explain that.I said Bowe won all three fights.

[Smokee]

You are probably the most knowledgable boxing poster on here RedBlackAttack, but there is no way Tua ever beats Lennox Lewis in a fight. Lennox had the reach and that excellent jab to keep Tua away from him, especially since Tua was what like 5'9"?
Theres no way Tua can get inside to do some damage when he has such a height/reach disadvantage.
Not to mention Lennox has the power in the right hand to keep him honest.

I feel that Lennox Lewis cops a lot of disrespect from the public and the boxing community. He would give just about any heavyweight in history fits. Theres noone with that combination of power, speed, height, reach and weight. About the only thing he has wrong is a suspect chin, but you can't deny that he took on everybody and cleaned out the division.


Its really stupid to me how people look to guys like him or others who might follow somethign closer for opinions on things when their just opinions. Most of the time they are just as wrong as anyone. People do that **** here constantly. Think of NBA. Charles, Kenny, and Ernie. They can probably recite a lot of remote ****, or talk about offensive sets vs defense, etc. but they are just as wrong as everyone else with their opinions. They see the same exact things you do, and oftentimes they are way more bias than you are towards what they watch if they are a diehard purist towards the sport. People just over credit others way too much all in all.

[RedBlackAttack]

You are probably the most knowledgable boxing poster on here RedBlackAttack, but there is no way Tua ever beats Lennox Lewis in a fight. Lennox had the reach and that excellent jab to keep Tua away from him, especially since Tua was what like 5'9"?
Theres no way Tua can get inside to do some damage when he has such a height/reach disadvantage.
Not to mention Lennox has the power in the right hand to keep him honest.

I feel that Lennox Lewis cops a lot of disrespect from the public and the boxing community. He would give just about any heavyweight in history fits. Theres noone with that combination of power, speed, height, reach and weight. About the only thing he has wrong is a suspect chin, but you can't deny that he took on everybody and cleaned out the division.
I would have likely favored Lewis in a bout with Tua, even pre-Ibeabuchi. But, there is no doubt that Tua was a different fighter when he stepped in the ring with Lewis compared with the guy that fought Ike. He was WAY over-weight and out-of-shape against Lennox and he fought with very little emotion/passion.

I hold Lewis in very high regard. Skill-wise, he is one of the great heavyweights of all-time. Combine that with his massive size and you have something really special. However, his Achilles heel was always his chin and the David Tua that fought Ike only needed one crack at your jaw to end matters. Like I said... I would still favor Lewis, but there was always a chance that Tua could catch Lewis with something hard and that would be that.

Ibeabuchi had all of the physical tools to beat Lewis. He could match his size and strength, but had a granite chin and never wore down. That is a fight that I would have loved to have seen.

[Lebron23]

Bowe beat Holyfield twice. Tyson lost to holyfield twice. Bowe struggled against Golota while Tyson quickly dispatched Golota.

[Off the Court]

No doubt...

"Cus died and he was never the same."
"He went to prison and it messed up his head."
"He didn't train hard and he was partying."
"He didn't take his medication."
"He did take his medication."

Blah, blah, blah, blah...

The excuses are never ending.

Here is the truth, for those that want to accept it.

Mike Tyson was a fighter who showed a lot of promise, but never fulfilled his expectations (or even came close). People loved him because he was a great power puncher that was exciting to watch. He was also a mental midget who could never handle adversity and never beat another truly elite fighter of his generation.

People want to hold on to the myth of Tyson because they grew up idolizing him and they believe if they let go of that vicious image, they will be letting go of a piece of their childhood. I grew up watching and loving Mike's style, too, but at some point, you have to think rationally.

His resume is absolutely weak and he was completely dominated by two other great fighters of his generation.

If any other athlete in any other sport received the amount of excuses and free passes that Tyson does, people would laugh it off as some kind of joke. For some reason, otherwise perfectly reasonable people toss these excuses around as some kind of validation for their hero.

Tyson = Most Overrated Athlete Ever

This is a good post.

Tyson never really beat anyone of quality. When he faced a Holyfield or Lewis, fighters not intimidated by him, he lost.

Have to believe the same would have happened vs Bowe