Who would you have given the '88 MVP to?

[Fatal9]

Jordan won over Bird in a pretty close race. This MVP would have marked Bird's fourth is five years.

Bird put up 30/9/6 on 52.7% (41.4% from three so insane scoring efficiency), Jordan put up 35/5.5/6 on 53.5%. Per 36 minutes (because Jordan played a couple of minutes more) stats are, 28/9/6 for Bird, 31/5/5 for Jordan. Bird was a superior offensive player imo, his feel for the game was much better than Jordan's at this point in MJ's career.

Celtics were the #1 seed in the conference with 57 wins (they were 2-4 without Bird, so they easily would have crossed 60 wins quite easily with him). Bulls were #4 seed with 50 wins. Before people play the "team card", please keep in mind that McHale was out for over a month due to surgery, Parish had his worst season of the decade, DJ was on his last legs.

Lets try to keep crap like "Jordan won DPOY though!" out of here because there is NO way in hell he deserved that over Hakeem. Classic showcase of how hype wins these type of awards (Lebron was freaking #2 this year, did you see his defense in the Magic series?!). Always irked me how the award went to Jordan when it really wasn't his time yet (was Bird's last great season before the injuries) and he probably didn't deserve it based on how the award has been handed out traditionally.

[DonDadda59]

Kobe should've won it in '88.

[Lebron23]

Kobe should've won it in '88.


The Immortal One

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan won over Bird in a pretty close race. This MVP would have marked Bird's fourth is five years.

Bird put up 30/9/6 on 52.7% (41.4% from three so insane scoring efficiency), Jordan put up 35/5.5/6 on 53.5%. Per 36 minutes (because Jordan played a couple of minutes more) stats are, 28/9/6 for Bird, 31/5/5 for Jordan. Bird was a superior offensive player imo, his feel for the game was much better than Jordan's at this point in MJ's career.

Celtics were the #1 seed in the conference with 57 wins (they were 2-4 without Bird, so they easily would have crossed 60 wins quite easily with him). Bulls were #4 seed with 50 wins. Before people play the "team card", please keep in mind that McHale was out for over a month due to surgery, Parish had his worst season of the decade, DJ was on his last legs.

Lets try to keep crap like "Jordan won DPOY though!" out of here because there is NO way in hell he deserved that over Hakeem. Classic showcase of how hype wins these type of awards (Lebron was freaking #2 this year, did you see his defense in the Magic series?!). Always irked me how the award went to Jordan when it really wasn't his time yet (was Bird's last great season before the injuries) and he probably didn't deserve it based on how the award has been handed out traditionally.

LMAO @ the constant agenda. MJ had one of the 5 best single seasons of all time that year. Get this nonsense out of here. :oldlol:

[Indian guy]

Kobe.

[nnn123]

Lets try to keep crap like "Jordan won DPOY though!" out of here because there is NO way in hell he deserved that over Hakeem. Classic showcase of how hype wins these type of awards


So even if one were to admit that Jordan didn't deserve DPOY (which isn't true) shall we still ignore the fact that he was a significantly better defender than Bird? Shouldn't that at least count in the argument, or was Jordan's lockdown D something that the "MJ stans" just imagined?

[Papaya Petee]

LMAO @ the constant agenda. MJ had one of the 5 best single seasons of all time that year. Get this nonsense out of here. :oldlol:
Are you trying to say Bird did not have a absolutely insane season?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Regardless of whether you feel he deserved defensive player of the year award, he was still a much better defender than Bird. Jordan's team won 50 games despite Michael not having much of a supporting cast. Jordan sure didn't have a player like Kevin McHale on his team. McHale, Parish, Ainge and DJ were still a strong supporting cast.

[juju151111]

Jordan won over Bird in a pretty close race. This MVP would have marked Bird's fourth is five years.

Bird put up 30/9/6 on 52.7% (41.4% from three so insane scoring efficiency), Jordan put up 35/5.5/6 on 53.5%. Per 36 minutes (because Jordan played a couple of minutes more) stats are, 28/9/6 for Bird, 31/5/5 for Jordan. Bird was a superior offensive player imo, his feel for the game was much better than Jordan's at this point in MJ's career.

Celtics were the #1 seed in the conference with 57 wins (they were 2-4 without Bird, so they easily would have crossed 60 wins quite easily with him). Bulls were #4 seed with 50 wins. Before people play the "team card", please keep in mind that McHale was out for over a month due to surgery, Parish had his worst season of the decade, DJ was on his last legs.

Lets try to keep crap like "Jordan won DPOY though!" out of here because there is NO way in hell he deserved that over Hakeem. Classic showcase of how hype wins these type of awards (Lebron was freaking #2 this year, did you see his defense in the Magic series?!). Always irked me how the award went to Jordan when it really wasn't his time yet (was Bird's last great season before the injuries) and he probably didn't deserve it based on how the award has been handed out traditionally.
No way in hell he deserved over Hakeem????? Also MJ defense added to his stats clearly means he was the MVP

[Younggrease]

Kobe.

9 year old Kobe was at least as skilled as anyone in that weak era...

[T-bomb 25]

9 year old Kobe was at least as skilled as anyone in that weak era...This era is the weakest moron.

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol: Kobe stans trying to rewrite history as usual. Nothing you can do that can change the facts. Get over it already.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xd7W6OPSCuI/SKx1ovWxhNI/AAAAAAAAA5A/w7sFbS9rB5g/s400/michael_jordan_trophy_rings.jpg

[plowking]

Jordan should have won it.

Though on another note, I hope this educates fans that Bird was better than Magic. I'm tired of seeing Magic placed above Birds on all time lists when it's hardly the truth.

[juju151111]

Jordan should have won it.

Though on another note, I hope this educates fans that Bird was better than Magic. I'm tired of seeing Magic placed above Birds on all time lists when it's hardly the truth.
Yea nice Opinion their.

[guy]

So even if one were to admit that Jordan didn't deserve DPOY (which isn't true) shall we still ignore the fact that he was a significantly better defender than Bird? Shouldn't that at least count in the argument, or was Jordan's lockdown D something that the "MJ stans" just imagined?

This. As far as the wins argument goes, Jordan had a significantly worse supporting cast but they only lost 7 less games. Of course it wouldn't have been a crime if Bird were MVP that year, but Jordan was very deserving of that MVP.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan won over Bird in a pretty close race. This MVP would have marked Bird's fourth is five years.

Bird put up 30/9/6 on 52.7% (41.4% from three so insane scoring efficiency), Jordan put up 35/5.5/6 on 53.5%. Per 36 minutes (because Jordan played a couple of minutes more) stats are, 28/9/6 for Bird, 31/5/5 for Jordan. Bird was a superior offensive player imo, his feel for the game was much better than Jordan's at this point in MJ's career.

Just couldn't bring yourself to round up Jordan's numbers like you did Bird's huh? :oldlol:

And why should Jordan be penalized for playing more than Larry did? Maybe we should reward the efficiency Jordan displayed for 40 mins a game.

Jordan just eats you up, doesn't he? :roll:

[nnn123]

Just couldn't bring yourself to round up Jordan's numbers like you did Bird's huh? :oldlol:

And why should Jordan be penalized for playing more than Larry did? Maybe we should reward the efficiency Jordan displayed for 40 mins a game.

Jordan just eats you up, doesn't he? :roll:


Hahahah I noticed that too..... If Kobe goes 30/6/6 he'll round it up to 31/7/7....but for Jordan, an unfortunate 29/5/5

[plowking]

Also why is it that when Bird averaged 8.5 rebounds per 36 minutes you rounded it, while when jordan averaged 5.5 rebounds you didn't round it?

You always skew the stats in favor of those against Jordan. Funny how that always works out somehow, huh?

[chitownsfinest]

Let me go through this:
MJ's team won 50 games, Bird's team won 57
MJ's three best scorers besides him featured Sam Vincent who missed 55 games (13 ppg), Oakley (12 ppg), and Dave fu*king Corzine (10 ppg). MJ scored 1/3 of his teams points that season.
Bird's three best scorers besides him featured McHale who only missed 19 games (23 ppg, 8 RPG), Ainge who played the entire season (16 ppg), Parrish who only missed 9 games and was still superior to any teammate MJ had (14/9), and DJ who only missed 5 games and still put up 13 ppg and 8 apg. That is a far better supporting cast then MJ's and Bird only won 7 more games?
MJ also played much better defense then Bird did that season. On top of that MJ anchored his cast to being a top 4 defense (his only real help being Oakley). Bird's Celtics finished 17th.
Bird's stats: 30/9/6
MJ's stats: 35/6/6
Only a 1.4 minute per game differential between the two and MJ only lags behind in reb's for an obvious reason. MJ destroyed Bird in spg and bpg as well.
Bird's season would have been an mvp season in any other yr but MJ's performance that season was out of the world. Case closed.

[Cyclone112]

Who would you have given the '08 MVP to

Kobe: 28.3 pts, 6.3 rbs, 5.4 asts, .459 FG
LBJ: 30.0 pts, 7.9 rbs, 7.2 asts, .484 FG

Considering Kobe gets butt plunged in every category I think I'll give him the MVP leaving Kobe with what he deserves 0 MVP's.

EDIT: I'm a HUGEEEE Kobe fan btw, that time you saw a pic of me wearing an MJ jersey I was just borrowing it off a buddy cus it was a hot day.

[DonDadda59]

How many times do I have to do this to you? :roll:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1821/fakedaa.jpg

That closet you're in must be a dark and lonely place. Come out already.

http://www.shaveblog.com/uploaded_images/haring-790349.jpg

Anytime you're ready :violin:

[Lebron23]

Who would you have given the '08 MVP to

Kobe: 28.3 pts, 6.3 rbs, 5.4 asts, .459 FG
LBJ: 30.0 pts, 7.9 rbs, 7.2 asts, .484 FG

Considering Kobe gets butt plunged in every category I think I'll give him the MVP leaving Kobe with what he deserves 0 MVP's.

EDIT: I'm a HUGEEEE Kobe fan btw, that time you saw a pic of me wearing an MJ jersey I was just borrowing it off a buddy cus it was a hot day.


:lol :lol :lol

[OldSchoolBBall]

Are you trying to say Bird did not have a absolutely insane season?

Not at all. He did - probably his best statistical season, actually. But Jordan was even better statistically AND won DPOY (despite Fatal9's dismissal of it, which is an absolute joke :oldlol:), and took a relatively untalented team to 50 wins. He had one of the 5 best individual seasons of all time and this dude is trying to act like he didn't deserve it. :oldlol:

[Carbine]

Why are people using Jordan' teammates and then using his stats to validate their assertion that Jordan actually deserved it more....

All that shows is that Jordan actually had more on his shoulders, so that's why he has better per game scoring numbers.... Bird putting up 30/9/6 on a great team where he didn't dominate the ball... that statistical dominance might never be seen again from a player on such a good team. LeBron put up great numbers this year and in years past but he never had the players around him to where he didn't feel he had to do as much, and a team where the ball wasn't in his hands the majority of the time.

I actually feel like Bird deserved it as much as Jordan did that year - obviously Michael had a great year, but like someone else said... Bird had a great feel for the game back then and was probably only rivaled in that aspect by Magic.... and since people love per game stats so much, his are actually better given the context on both Michael' team and his own team.

Bird had a peak that can go against anyone in the history of the game.

[Fatal9]

What's with the Kobe obsession on ISH? I am starting to dislike him (because of how ubiquitous he is on these forums) instead of being just indifferent to him.

Like I said, Celtics went 2-4 without Bird (couple of games he sat out before the playoffs), so they easily win 60+ with him in the lineup. Like Carbine above me mentioned, 30/9/6 on allegedly a stacked team (check first post to see this wasn't the prime Celtics like some may think) is just as impressive, if not more, as 35/6/6 on a less talented lower end playoff type of team.

What I'm really wondering is where were you guys when Nash was winning MVPs over Lebron and Kobe? Now a slight statistical edge for Jordan is automatically some sort of a landslide? Let's not act like MVP is given to the best individual season.


Though on another note, I hope this educates fans that Bird was better than Magic. I'm tired of seeing Magic placed above Birds on all time lists when it's hardly the truth.
Yup, this is precisely the reason the '88 MVP bugs me too. If Bird wins it, that incredible season would have gotten more recognition and the pendulum would have heavily swayed in Bird's favor (it already was but I'm just referring to the perception with the average fan).

[Mikaiel]

What's with the Kobe obsession on ISH? I am starting to dislike him (because of how ubiquitous he is on these forums) instead of being just indifferent to him.

Hmm, he's your favorite player, remember ?

[Da_Realist]

Who would you have given the '08 MVP to

Kobe: 28.3 pts, 6.3 rbs, 5.4 asts, .459 FG
LBJ: 30.0 pts, 7.9 rbs, 7.2 asts, .484 FG

Considering Kobe gets butt plunged in every category I think I'll give him the MVP leaving Kobe with what he deserves 0 MVP's.

EDIT: I'm a HUGEEEE Kobe fan btw, that time you saw a pic of me wearing an MJ jersey I was just borrowing it off a buddy cus it was a hot day.

:roll:

[Harison]

Both totally deserved MVP, I didnt mind either getting it although I was rooting for MJ, since Bird already had plenty of accolades at that time.

[Dave3]

:roll:
What's funny is the materials those jerseys are made of actually make people hotter rather than cool them down, so it's not at all a good excuse.

[lbj23clutch]

How many times do I have to do this to you? :roll:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1821/fakedaa.jpg

That closet you're in must be a dark and lonely place. Come out already.

http://www.shaveblog.com/uploaded_images/haring-790349.jpg

Anytime you're ready :violin:
end/ :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Fatal9]

SMH at ISH. New low, seriously. These parasites jump into every thread with the same old sh*t.


Jordan just eats you up, doesn't he? :roll:
Nope.

Point of this thread or recent threads isn't to discredit MJ, just trying to get a bit more recognition for Bird and other players. I've been bothered a lot by the Magic = GOAT or Magic > Bird posts lately. It's the same reason I made the Kareem thread, not anti-Jordan by any means, just trying to make posters more aware of my other favorite players (who are more proned to being snubbed). Only reason Jordan pops up is because, I think it's the best way to get the point across (if players like Bird/Kareem occupied an MJ-like zone at their peak, if not better in Kareem's case, people get the point quicker of how great they were).

[nnn123]

and since people love per game stats so much, his are actually better given the context on both Michael' team and his own team.


I can agree with the argument that Bird's raw stats may be better given the context of team strength, but what about the defense component? Those stats don't give justice to Jordan's defense that year.

I agree though there is definitely an argument for both of them, you can't really go wrong.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Alas, Jordan be the deserving recipient of such an award. This be the proper list of changes in the last two decades in accordance to creedence of the wise man.


1990 - Barkley over Magic

1997 - Jordan over Malone

1998 - Malone over Jordan

2005- O'Neal over Nash

[Butters]

Bird,but im bias.

[Da_Realist]

Why are people using Jordan' teammates and then using his stats to validate their assertion that Jordan actually deserved it more....

All that shows is that Jordan actually had more on his shoulders, so that's why he has better per game scoring numbers.... Bird putting up 30/9/6 on a great team where he didn't dominate the ball... that statistical dominance might never be seen again from a player on such a good team. LeBron put up great numbers this year and in years past but he never had the players around him to where he didn't feel he had to do as much, and a team where the ball wasn't in his hands the majority of the time.

I actually feel like Bird deserved it as much as Jordan did that year - obviously Michael had a great year, but like someone else said... Bird had a great feel for the game back then and was probably only rivaled in that aspect by Magic.... and since people love per game stats so much, his are actually better given the context on both Michael' team and his own team.

Bird had a peak that can go against anyone in the history of the game.

You're right. They were at 2 different points in their careers. Jordan had to shoulder so much of the load so his accomplishments were needed for Chicago to be competitive. Bird was allowed to play in his upper register. He didn't have the minute by minute pressure of having to play his absolute best for the Celtics to be competitive. He picked and chose his spots. Jordan wasn't able to play in his upper register until about 1991.

This is why, in my opinion, Jordan deserved the MVP that year. It's easy to lose your focus or relax when you have to play at 100% capacity every game just to be competitive. If I could use an analogy -- Both guys drove cross-country and made good time, but Bird drove a Benz with plush leather seating, dual air-condition settings for driver and passenger, tinted windows and a 6 disk cd-changer. Jordan drove a Prius. And Bird barely nudged him out at the finish line.

Even in the playoffs, they played the same team. Jordan's team lost in five to the Pistons (and he put up 28 points, 5 assists, 9 rebounds, 50 fg%). The Celtics lost in 6 (and should have been less because Mchale's game-tying three in Game 2 WAS NOT A THREE). I don't know what Larry's overall numbers were but I do know he struggled while shooting 41% from the field.

[plowking]

SMH at ISH. New low, seriously. These parasites jump into every thread with the same old sh*t.


Nope.

Point of this thread or recent threads isn't to discredit MJ, just trying to get a bit more recognition for Bird and other players. I've been bothered a lot by the Magic = GOAT or Magic > Bird posts lately. It's the same reason I made the Kareem thread, not anti-Jordan by any means, just trying to make posters more aware of my other favorite players (who are more proned to being snubbed). Only reason Jordan pops up is because, I think it's the best way to get the point across (if players like Bird/Kareem occupied an MJ-like zone at their peak, if not better in Kareem's case, people get the point quicker of how great they were).

Get the notion of Kareem being better out of your head, because even you know it's not true.

[chitownsfinest]

Why are people using Jordan' teammates and then using his stats to validate their assertion that Jordan actually deserved it more....

All that shows is that Jordan actually had more on his shoulders, so that's why he has better per game scoring numbers.... Bird putting up 30/9/6 on a great team where he didn't dominate the ball... that statistical dominance might never be seen again from a player on such a good team. LeBron put up great numbers this year and in years past but he never had the players around him to where he didn't feel he had to do as much, and a team where the ball wasn't in his hands the majority of the time.

I actually feel like Bird deserved it as much as Jordan did that year - obviously Michael had a great year, but like someone else said... Bird had a great feel for the game back then and was probably only rivaled in that aspect by Magic.... and since people love per game stats so much, his are actually better given the context on both Michael' team and his own team.

Bird had a peak that can go against anyone in the history of the game.
Bird's season would have been an MVP season any other year but MJ's was out of the world that season. He dominated both ends more then Bird did. They both were practically on the same level offensively but Jordan dominated Bird defensively that season. Farthermore, MJ anchored a top 4 defensive squad that season while Larry Legend occupied 17th ranked. The reason I say MJ anchored it is because he was the clear cut best defender on that team.

MJ also lost only 7 less games despite a much weaker supporting cast then Bird's. Fatal is clearly giving no respect to Bird's cast in his post.
MJ's three best scorers besides him featured Sam Vincent who missed 55 games (13 ppg), Oakley (12 ppg), and Dave fu*king Corzine (10 ppg). MJ scored 1/3 of his teams points that season.
Bird's three best scorers besides him featured McHale who only missed 19 games (23 ppg, 8 RPG), Ainge who played the entire season (16 ppg), Parrish who only missed 9 games and was still superior to any teammate MJ had (14/9), and DJ who only missed 5 games and still put up 13 ppg and 8 apg. That is a far better supporting cast then MJ's and Bird only won 7 more games?
MJ had to shoulder a much bigger load then Larry did that season.

[nnn123]

I just feel that Jordan's resume that season was far too eye-popping to ignore. I mean think about averaging 35 points per game in a season. Kobe did that a couple years ago, recall how amazing it was. Now, think about doing that while winning the DPOY award at the same time! And then you're individual dominance is directly leading to team success (50 wins on a mediocre cast) how could you go wrong?? I can see the argument for Bird, but Jordan was definitely deserving as well

[Abraham Lincoln]

9 year old Kobe was at least as skilled as anyone in that weak era...
Execute thyself for such foolish gibberish. The proper merciless method of handling such anguish bearing words be so horrifying it will slap the stupid out of you. Thou shan't all but change thyself in to a fellow wise man so that all the kindred creedence of the land be shared in a likeness with your new philosophies.

[Alpha Wolf]

:oldlol: Kobe stans trying to rewrite history as usual. Nothing you can do that can change the facts. Get over it already.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xd7W6OPSCuI/SKx1ovWxhNI/AAAAAAAAA5A/w7sFbS9rB5g/s400/michael_jordan_trophy_rings.jpg


hmmm

Kobe is still playing he's only 30 years old he has 4 rings and he is just getting started

Jordan is retired and will NEVER play again




Kobe >>> Mike


and by the end of his career he'll have more rings


Kobe has 4 rings and is only 30 yrs old.......cry haters :cheers:



http://tunyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_his_4th_ring.jpg

[Fatal9]

:oldlol: at Kobe being brought in to this, and literally every thread. You can clearly see who the first ones to bring him up in the thread are. Seriously, let go of this obsession, not everything is connected to him in a roundabout way.

People wonder why I call Jordan's career lucky. THIS is why, he had the best of both worlds. In historical context, apparently putting up great stats on crappy teams is worth more than Bird having these incredible seasons while sharing the ball with other great players on better teams.

:oldlol: at anyone who doesn't think Bird drops several 30+ ppg/10+ rpg/5-7 apg seasons in his prime on a ****ty team (while leading them to 45-52 wins). Apparently that's just as valuable as what he did while winning 60+ games and championships though.


Get the notion of Kareem being better out of your head, because even you know it's not true.
Depends on what your criteria is. On a conventional list, Jordan is clearly the greatest. Kareem/Wilt were better at their peak and were more valuable to their teams, just had the misfortune of being on bad teams for their primes (they couldn't shoot 40% in a series against the toughest opponent and wind up winning it).

[Duncan21formvp]

Well Bird lost with HCA that year so it doesn't matter.

[Duncan21formvp]

hmmm

Kobe is still playing he's only 30 years old he has 4 rings and he is just getting started

Jordan is retired and will NEVER play again




Kobe >>> Mike


and by the end of his career he'll have more rings


Kobe has 4 rings and is only 30 yrs old.......cry haters :cheers:



http://modern-poet.com/blog-photos/kobe-trophy.jpg

Doesn't matter, he will never have won as the man more times, and he will never have as many finals mvp's, league mvp's. He will never led the league in Win Shares nor PER and he won't have the highest scoring average in the season, playoffs and finals.

Thus he will always be behind MJ. However, Kobe will still be with Vince Carter as Vince has never had an allstar big man to play with.

Regular Season

Kobe Bryant
25.1 ppg, 45.5% fg, 34.1% 3pt FG, 5.3 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.6 bpg, 2.9 tpg, 23.6 per


Vince Carter
23.5 ppg, 44.7% fg, 37.6% 3 pt FG, 5.5 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.4 tpg, 21.4 per




Playoffs


Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg, 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per

[Alpha Wolf]

Doesn't matter, he will never have won as the man more times, and he will never have as many finals mvp's, league mvp's. He will never led the league in Win Shares nor PER and he won't have the highest scoring average in the season, playoffs and finals.

Thus he will always be behind MJ. However, Kobe will still be with Vince Carter as Vince has never had an allstar big man to play with.

Regular Season

Kobe Bryant
25.1 ppg, 45.5% fg, 34.1% 3pt FG, 5.3 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.6 bpg, 2.9 tpg, 23.6 per


Vince Carter
23.5 ppg, 44.7% fg, 37.6% 3 pt FG, 5.5 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.4 tpg, 21.4 per




Playoffs


Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg, 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per



GTFOH


u haters always claim the only reason Kobe got his first 3 rings was cause of Shaq

well why don't you acknowledge that Kobe's numbers suffered cause for 7 years he shared the ball with another guy who scored 25+ ppg perennially.



If Kobe was gunning like Mike from the second he came into the league he would be destroying Mike's numbers.


Kobe scored 81 pts in a game.......MJ never did that

Kobe scored 50+ pts in 4 straight games......MJ never did that

Kobe has countless games where he had 50+ pts at the end of 3 qtrs and didn't play the 4th.......MJ never did that


Kobe >>> Mike


and by the end of his career he'll have more rings

only 30 years old

http://tunyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_his_4th_ring.jpg only 30 years old


:cry: haters .....

[DonDadda59]

hmmm

Kobe is still playing he's only 30 years old he has 4 rings and he is just getting started

Jordan is retired and will NEVER play again




Kobe >>> Mike


and by the end of his career he'll have more rings


Kobe has 4 rings and is only 30 yrs old.......cry haters :cheers:

What exactly makes Kobe better than Jordan? Was he stronger, faster, smarter... what is it precisely? The only argument you have is long range shooting, but Jordan trumps him in 3% in the playoffs. Why is Kobe- playing in a weak era geared toward perimeter scoring, the same size as Jordan more or less, playing the same position, playing in the same offensive system, playing for the same coach... unable to accomplish even half of what Jordan has besides that fact that he (Kobe) has had better teams around him his entire career and playing longer as a Laker than Jordan did as a Bull? That's the million $ question.

Or we can take the easy route, tell me why Kobe in his prime isn't even the second best player in the league?

[Abraham Lincoln]

What exactly makes Kobe better than Jordan? Was he stronger, faster, smarter... what is it precisely? The only argument you have is long range shooting, but Jordan trumps him in 3% in the playoffs. Why is Kobe- playing in a weak era geared toward perimeter scoring, the same size as Jordan more or less, playing the same position, playing in the same offensive system, playing for the same coach... unable to accomplish even half of what Jordan has besides that fact that he (Kobe) has had better teams around him his entire career and playing longer as a Laker than Jordan did as a Bull? That's the million $ question.

Or we can take the easy route, tell me why Kobe in his prime isn't even the second best player in the league?
Bryant be the greatest due to his splendid shot making abilities, grand scoring sprees, and of course the troubles of fighting off complicated zone sandwiches game after game.

[Duncan21formvp]

GTFOH


u haters always claim the only reason Kobe got his first 3 rings was cause of Shaq

well why don't you acknowledge that Kobe's numbers suffered cause for 7 years he shared the ball with another guy who scored 25+ ppg perennially.



If Kobe was gunning like Mike from the second he came into the league he would be destroying Mike's numbers.


Kobe scored 81 pts in a game.......MJ never did that

Kobe scored 50+ pts in 4 straight games......MJ never did that

Kobe has countless games where he had 50+ pts at the end of 3 qtrs and didn't play the 4th.......MJ never did that


Kobe >>> Mike


and by the end of his career he'll have more rings

B]only 30 years old[/B]

http://tunyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_his_4th_ring.jpg only 30 years old


:cry: haters .....

Kobe has never scored 51 in the playoffs. Kobe has never scored 50 twice in the same playoff series. Kobe has never gotten 3 scoring titles, Kobe has never gotten DPOY. Kobe has never shot 50% FG, Kobe has never led the league in win shares nor PER. Kobe has never led the league in Steals. Kobe has never gotten 100 blocks in a season. Kobe has never gotten 200 steals and 100 blocks the same season.

Maybe because Shaq won the finals mvp's and maybe because Shaq finished 1st, 3rd and 3rd in mvp voting when LA won. The years LA won Kobe was 12th, 9th and 5th in MVP voting which is further behind Shaq. Also the next years when Kobe finished ahead of Shaq in MVP voting the Lakers didn't win.

Magic won 5 rings by the time he was 28. Parker won 3 rings by the time he was 24 and had a finals mvp. Guess they are better than Kobe as well.

John Havlicek had 6 rings by age 30, so that means he was greater than Kobe as well.

Stop being a dumbass.

[Fatal9]

Can Kobe groupies and haters please scamper off to another thread? No one cares about him, discussing him is beyond exhausted at this point.

[Alpha Wolf]

What exactly makes Kobe better than Jordan? Was he stronger, faster, smarter... what is it precisely? The only argument you have is long range shooting, but Jordan trumps him in 3% in the playoffs. Why is Kobe- playing in a weak era geared toward perimeter scoring, the same size as Jordan more or less, playing the same position, playing in the same offensive system, playing for the same coach... unable to accomplish even half of what Jordan has besides that fact that he (Kobe) has had better teams around him his entire career and playing longer as a Laker than Jordan did as a Bull? That's the million $ question.

Or we can take the easy route, tell me why Kobe in his prime isn't even the second best player in the league?

If Kobe jacked up as many shots as Jordan did their scoring numbers be similar




Kobe: 19.2 FGA , .455%

Jordan: 22.9 FGA , .497%


Jordan led the league in FGA a record NINE TIMES! Plus, he wasn't a very good three-point shooter, so the league moved in the line for him (to the college level). Kobe had to shoot 3's from a man-sized distance!


If Kobe had the benefit of a shortened 3-point line and if he decided to shoot more instead of involving his teammates their numbers be about the same

[Duncan21formvp]

Kobe: 19.2 FGA , .455%

Jordan: 22.9 FGA , .497%


Jordan led the league in FGA a record NINE TIMES! Plus, he wasn't a very good three-point shooter, so the league moved in the line for him (to the college level). Kobe had to shoot 3's from a man-sized distance!


If Kobe had the benefit of a shortened 3-point line and if he decided to shoot more instead of involving his teammates their numbers be about the same

Kobe would shoot worse than Iverson taking more shots.

[DonDadda59]

Can Kobe groupies and haters please scamper off to another thread? No one cares about him, discussing him is beyond exhausted at this point.

F*ck outta here you fake b*tch, this is exactly why you started this thread. You got what you wanted. Anyone who's stupid enough not to see through you took the short yellow bus to school.

[DonDadda59]

If Kobe jacked up as many shots as Jordan did their scoring numbers be similar




Kobe: 19.2 FGA , .455%

Jordan: 22.9 FGA , .497%


Jordan led the league in FGA a record NINE TIMES! Plus, he wasn't a very good three-point shooter, so the league moved in the line for him (to the college level). Kobe had to shoot 3's from a man-sized distance!


If Kobe had the benefit of a shortened 3-point line and if he decided to shoot more instead of involving his teammates their numbers be about the same

I don't remember asking you post Kobe's poor shooting percentages and excuses. Answer my question- Kobe has played longer than Jordan did as a Bull. Is the same size, plays the same position, under the same offensive (and presumably defensive) system, under the same coach... with better teams since day 1 in the league. Yet he hasn't accomplished half (if that much) of what Jordan... but he's better? :wtf:

HOW?

Please tell me it's the zone holding Kobe back. Please.

[ronron15]

any discussion can turn into a kobe bryant arguement

[Dave3]

If Kobe jacked up as many shots as Jordan did their scoring numbers be similar




Kobe: 19.2 FGA , .455%

Jordan: 22.9 FGA , .497%


Jordan led the league in FGA a record NINE TIMES! Plus, he wasn't a very good three-point shooter, so the league moved in the line for him (to the college level). Kobe had to shoot 3's from a man-sized distance!


If Kobe had the benefit of a shortened 3-point line and if he decided to shoot more instead of involving his teammates their numbers be about the same
You realize that those averages are because of Kobe's first few seasons in the league when he wasn't good enough to start?
After his 3rd year in the league Kobe's averaged 21.5 shots per game, which is substantially closer to the 22.9 shots MJ took.
Also, the 3 point line was moved in only for 2 seasons, so it barely affects any stats.
Also, their scoring numbers wouldn't be similar because MJ shot a full 5% higher throughout his career from the field, so even on the same amount of shot attempts, MJ would score more.

I love how you say playing with Shaq negatively affected Kobe's stats, yet when it's convenient to use them (when you want the stat to be low) you go ahead and use it. Double standards make you look like a troll;)

[Alpha Wolf]

I don't remember asking you post Kobe's poor shooting percentages and excuses. Answer my question- Kobe has played longer than Jordan did as a Bull. Is the same size, plays the same position, under the same offensive (and presumably defensive) system, under the same coach... with better teams since day 1 in the league. Yet he hasn't accomplished half (if that much) of what Jordan... but he's better? :wtf:

HOW?

Please tell me it's the zone holding Kobe back. Please.


Jordan got to gun from the second he stepped into the league


If Kobe was gunning like Mike from the second he came into the league he would be destroying Mike's numbers



Kobe scored 81 pts in a game.......MJ never did that

Kobe scored 50+ pts in 4 straight games......MJ never did that

Kobe has countless games where he had 50+ pts at the end of 3 qtrs and didn't play the 4th.......MJ never did that




Anyways by the end of his career he'll have more rings


Kobe has 4 rings and is only 30 yrs old

Jordan (6 ring) he is retired and will NEVER play again







:cry: haters

[qrich]

Can Kobe groupies and haters please scamper off to another thread? No one cares about him, discussing him is beyond exhausted at this point.

http://www.dailysportspages.com/forums/images/smilies/hysterical.gif @ your troll ass trying to act innocent.

[chitownsfinest]

Can Kobe groupies and haters please scamper off to another thread? No one cares about him, discussing him is beyond exhausted at this point.
Pretty much every thread you make turns into a Kobe-Jordan debate so you obviously should have seen this coming. Maybe it is time to stop making threads?

Oh, and responding to your previous post, I seriously have to LOL at you brining up MJ's performance in the 93 Knicks-Bulls series. I find it hilarious you keep bringing up the same crap even though it is the only series in MJ's prime where he struggled like that and you still have to look beyond the stats. He basically won the game for Chicago in game 4 and in game 5, he was the main reason they won. He set up Scottie and Bill for easy baskets in the first half and took over in the second half. He scored 17 straight points at one point in the second half which basically kept the Bulls in it while playing lock down D on John Starks. The Bulls do not win if he doesn't go on that run and he also dished the assist to B.J. Armstrong for the game winning shot. Yes, Pip was the MVP of that series and yes, it was not that great of a performance by MJ but you need to stop nitpicking that series when it is the only one in his prime where he did not play that well.

[DonDadda59]

Jordan got to gun from the second he stepped into the league



Kobe didn't start because he was not good enough to. His scrawny ass would've been filleted because it was a physical game- a man's game. Take a look at what Lebron did at the same age as your hero during the tougher 'zone' era. :oldlol:

Lebron Rookie Year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-bTLOM0c2M)


How many 50 point games did Kobe have before the 'zone' era? 1, maybe. :roll:

[branslowski]

88' MVP=Jordan's...Period. No If's and's or but's about it...


Also, why are ppl actually responding to Alpha Wolf? I swear though, you only respond to him if you take him seriously, but...then you have those ppl who don't take him serious, but still choose to respond so they can fulfill their Kobe Bashing orgasm's, but try to play it off as "Oh, im just owning this retard Alpha Wolf"....

Look, Alpha Wolf is a troll...Pay no attention to him...

[Alpha Wolf]

88' MVP=Jordan's...Period. No If's and's or but's about it...


Also, why are ppl actually responding to Alpha Wolf? I swear though, you only respond to him if you take him seriously, but...then you have those ppl who don't take him serious, but still choose to respond so they can fulfill their Kobe Bashing orgasm's, but try to play it off as "Oh, im just owning this retard Alpha Wolf"....

Look, Alpha Wolf is a troll...Pay no attention to him...


I aint a troll..im a realist

[poido123]

I aint a troll..im a realist

Your a troll, and I still don't know why you haven't been banned yet, maybe you have??
Anyways, I hate on Kobe a lot, but I also credit him on certain things when its WARRANTED...If Kobe wants to be entered into a debate against Jordan, then expect him to come out the loser everytime, Fatal 9 and Alphawolf are worst posters by far, you can add PleaseBelieve to that list...

Kobe did very well to control the selfish gene in him, and win this year's NBA championship...the games he did play selfish, his team suffered-luckily he didnt do it often enough to prevent the Lakers from winning the title, however I do believe that last year was the best year the Lakers had to win it...From this point on, I can't see them repeating, the competition in the league got that much better after all the trades, and we aren't even finished yet...

[OldSchoolBBall]

:oldlol: at anyone who doesn't think Bird drops several 30+ ppg/10+ rpg/5-7 apg seasons in his prime on a ****ty team (while leading them to 45-52 wins).

He would also see a ton more defensive pressure if he was on a poor team, so you really can't say that with any certainty.


(they couldn't shoot 40% in a series against the toughest opponent and wind up winning it).

LMAO @ this clown. :oldlol:

[Fatal9]

He would also see a ton more defensive pressure if he was on a poor team, so you really can't say that with any certainty.
Yup, it's just a coincidence that he dropped 30/9/6 (his best statistical season) when DJ/Parish fell off, McHale had an injury, and the overall team wasn't as great as it was since his sophmore year. What other players drop their best statistical seasons when they are 31-32?


LMAO @ this clown. :oldlol:
LMAO @ pulling a houdini in the Kareem thread :oldlol:

[White Chocolate]

Pretty obvious Jordan deserved it. He surpassed Bird and Magic at this point, at least statistically.

[qrich]

I aint a troll..im a realist

You the realist dumbass.

[Alpha Wolf]

Your a troll, and I still don't know why you haven't been banned yet, maybe you have??
Anyways, I hate on Kobe a lot, but I also credit him on certain things when its WARRANTED...If Kobe wants to be entered into a debate against Jordan, then expect him to come out the loser everytime, Fatal 9 and Alphawolf are worst posters by far, you can add PleaseBelieve to that list...

Kobe did very well to control the selfish gene in him, and win this year's NBA championship...the games he did play selfish, his team suffered-luckily he didnt do it often enough to prevent the Lakers from winning the title, however I do believe that last year was the best year the Lakers had to win it...From this point on, I can't see them repeating, the competition in the league got that much better after all the trades, and we aren't even finished yet...

I'm just not a sheep to the media that makes me a troll?

man..... NIKE & ESPN has done a great job making you sheep believe all the hype now anyone who disagrees with you sheep is just labeled as a "hater" or "troll" then they get dismissed as just that


"hey everyone he is just a troll so lets just pretend he dosen't exist so we can continue to act as though our opinions are unrefuted fact"




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6BJ3CvPLhs

[Cyclone112]

People wonder why I call Jordan's career lucky.
Here you go again with this luck bull****. Kobe is way luckier than MJ. Kobe comes into the league and has one of the most dominant players ever to play and one of the best coaches ever as well thus getting 3 NBA championships quickly in his first 6 years. Kobe drives Shaq away destroying a legacy because of his own selfishness then *****es about his team for years being a horrible leader and a chucker along the way. Then he magically has Pau Gasol sent over gift wrapped for Kwame ****ing Brown which he then uses to obtain a fourth title.

Need I mention the controversy along the way during the three-peat(could be considered lucky they didn't fall to the Kings or even the Blazers) or the fact that this year they faced a Houston Rockets team without TMac, Mutombo and Yao Ming for half a series which took them to 7 games. Imagine what that team would have done healthy. Then Boston has KG injured so they can't make it to the finals and there's a great chance Boston would take down the Lakers again especially with the mental edge they would hold because of the year before. Orlando loses Jameer Nelson who was their best player against the Lakers during the season. They still decide to play him after being out for 4 months which obviously turned into a train wreck and arguably cost them a game making the series more interesting.

Sounds pretty ****ing lucky to me. You want him to not have Shaq and to start on a **** team? Go ahead and add on 2ppg for his career average since that means so much to you but then take away a couple titles. Pick your poison idiot.


Kobe has 4 rings and is only 30 yrs old
Mj as a Bull 930 regular season games + 179 playoff games = 1109 games
Kobe 948 regular season games + 175 playoff games = 1123 games

[zabuza666]

Jordan won over Bird in a pretty close race. This MVP would have marked Bird's fourth is five years.

Bird put up 30/9/6 on 52.7% (41.4% from three so insane scoring efficiency), Jordan put up 35/5.5/6 on 53.5%. Per 36 minutes (because Jordan played a couple of minutes more) stats are, 28/9/6 for Bird, 31/5/5 for Jordan. Bird was a superior offensive player imo, his feel for the game was much better than Jordan's at this point in MJ's career.

Celtics were the #1 seed in the conference with 57 wins (they were 2-4 without Bird, so they easily would have crossed 60 wins quite easily with him). Bulls were #4 seed with 50 wins. Before people play the "team card", please keep in mind that McHale was out for over a month due to surgery, Parish had his worst season of the decade, DJ was on his last legs.

Lets try to keep crap like "Jordan won DPOY though!" out of here because there is NO way in hell he deserved that over Hakeem. Classic showcase of how hype wins these type of awards (Lebron was freaking #2 this year, did you see his defense in the Magic series?!). Always irked me how the award went to Jordan when it really wasn't his time yet (was Bird's last great season before the injuries) and he probably didn't deserve it based on how the award has been handed out traditionally.

Bird was ****house compared to Jordan defensively. Purely on offense Bird has the edge but if you combine offense+defense I'd give the MVP to jordan.

[zabuza666]

Let me go through this:
MJ's team won 50 games, Bird's team won 57
MJ's three best scorers besides him featured Sam Vincent who missed 55 games (13 ppg), Oakley (12 ppg), and Dave fu*king Corzine (10 ppg). MJ scored 1/3 of his teams points that season.
Bird's three best scorers besides him featured McHale who only missed 19 games (23 ppg, 8 RPG), Ainge who played the entire season (16 ppg), Parrish who only missed 9 games and was still superior to any teammate MJ had (14/9), and DJ who only missed 5 games and still put up 13 ppg and 8 apg. That is a far better supporting cast then MJ's and Bird only won 7 more games?
MJ also played much better defense then Bird did that season. On top of that MJ anchored his cast to being a top 4 defense (his only real help being Oakley). Bird's Celtics finished 17th.
Bird's stats: 30/9/6
MJ's stats: 35/6/6
Only a 1.4 minute per game differential between the two and MJ only lags behind in reb's for an obvious reason. MJ destroyed Bird in spg and bpg as well.
Bird's season would have been an mvp season in any other yr but MJ's performance that season was out of the world. Case closed.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Fatal you are without a doubt the biggest undercover Kobe nut-hugger/Jordan basher on the site

[Brunch@Five]

Bird's and Magic's best season easily stack up to any other player, statistically.

Magic averaged 23/8/13 on 50+/90+ shooting in '89. This isn't any worse than Bird's 30/9/6 or MJ's 35/6/6

[Shep]

yes, it was jordan, quite clearly, for reasons already mentioned. jordan was also easily the best player in 1988.

[vinsane01]

Here we go with the stats again. The only ones who can answer this question are the ones who have seen the games played by both boston and chicago in the regular season. Since assuming the mvp race was that close with regards to stats and i assume both teams were close in the playoffs standings, the only way to decide who the mvp is is to watch the games and look at the player who had the better impact from both ends of the floor. I doubt most of you here have seen the games. The ones who did, are the ones who decided who won. And you should respect that, unless you have seen the games and want to make an issue out of it.
I have only seen quite a few playoff games played by thse teams in 88 and playoffs do not count to get the regular season mvp.

[Meticode]

There is some really epic posting in here. I looked at the Kobe jersey picture and started laughing at the caption under it. "I borrowed my friends jersey because it was hot outside." :roll:

[guy]

Here you go again with this luck bull****. Kobe is way luckier than MJ. Kobe comes into the league and has one of the most dominant players ever to play and one of the best coaches ever as well thus getting 3 NBA championships quickly in his first 6 years. Kobe drives Shaq away destroying a legacy because of his own selfishness then *****es about his team for years being a horrible leader and a chucker along the way. Then he magically has Pau Gasol sent over gift wrapped for Kwame ****ing Brown which he then uses to obtain a fourth title.

Need I mention the controversy along the way during the three-peat(could be considered lucky they didn't fall to the Kings or even the Blazers) or the fact that this year they faced a Houston Rockets team without TMac, Mutombo and Yao Ming for half a series which took them to 7 games. Imagine what that team would have done healthy. Then Boston has KG injured so they can't make it to the finals and there's a great chance Boston would take down the Lakers again especially with the mental edge they would hold because of the year before. Orlando loses Jameer Nelson who was their best player against the Lakers during the season. They still decide to play him after being out for 4 months which obviously turned into a train wreck and arguably cost them a game making the series more interesting.

Sounds pretty ****ing lucky to me. You want him to not have Shaq and to start on a **** team? Go ahead and add on 2ppg for his career average since that means so much to you but then take away a couple titles. Pick your poison idiot.

Mj as a Bull 930 regular season games + 179 playoff games = 1109 games
Kobe 948 regular season games + 175 playoff games = 1123 games

LOL @ the bolded, cause its completely true. I love how Kobe fans act like he would've put up Wilt-type numbers if he didn't play with Shaq. LOL. They don't seem to realize that even though it is true that playing on bad teams gets a player greater stats, its not that much more significant. Jordan in the first three-peat had averages of 32/6/6, 30/6/6, and 33/7/6. In the three years before that, he had 35/6/6, 33/8/8, and 34/7/6. Does anyone really think thats much of a significant difference? If Jordan played with Shaq, I would think he would have something like 28/7/7 during that time, which is pretty much Lebron-type numbers. If Kobe had a crappy team for his first 8 years, instead of the 22/5/4 he actually put up, I would think it would be something like 25/6/5. Does anyone actually think Kobe on crappy teams with that statline is better for his legacy then becoming a 3-time champion as probably the best 2nd option ever?

[guy]

Why are people using Jordan' teammates and then using his stats to validate their assertion that Jordan actually deserved it more....

All that shows is that Jordan actually had more on his shoulders, so that's why he has better per game scoring numbers....


The difference is even though Jordan had to carry that much on his shoulders and was able statistically dominate, he still led the team to a good record. In most cases when a player has eye-popping stats like that, a good record does not happen. And IMO he deserved it over Bird because Bird with significantly better teammates only got his team 7 more wins. If the Celtics won like over 63 games that year, then maybe he would've deserved it more, but he didn't.



Bird putting up 30/9/6 on a great team where he didn't dominate the ball... that statistical dominance might never be seen again from a player on such a good team. LeBron put up great numbers this year and in years past but he never had the players around him to where he didn't feel he had to do as much, and a team where the ball wasn't in his hands the majority of the time.


Jordan had 33/7/6 in 93 and Shaq had 30/14/4 in 00, which were both championship teams. That type of statistical dominance has been done since.



I actually feel like Bird deserved it as much as Jordan did that year - obviously Michael had a great year, but like someone else said... Bird had a great feel for the game back then and was probably only rivaled in that aspect by Magic.... and since people love per game stats so much, his are actually better given the context on both Michael' team and his own team.

Bird had a peak that can go against anyone in the history of the game.

I have no problem if someone thinks Bird deserved it that year. But some people are on here acting like Jordan didn't deserve at all, which is ridiculous.

[DuMa]

#464 thread on Kobe vs Jordan. this is gonna be a long summer on ISH

[Da_Realist]

I wonder why Fatal didn't mention that Jordan averaged 3 steals and 2 blocks per game in 88 to go along with his 35, 6 and 6 on 54 fg%? :eek:

[ukplayer4]

atleast fatal has the decency to mask his stupidity with half valid points. kb24pah was mentally ill and his obssession i actually felt sorry for but he atleast had some data to argue with. alpha wolf on the other hand is just jaw droppingly dumb and illogical with his nonsense. i think its between him and bulls/23 33/hall of fame/(his other accounts) for worst poster ever in the history of this board.

[Cangri]

atleast fatal has the decency to mask his stupidity with half valid points. kb24pah was mentally ill and his obssession i actually felt sorry for but he atleast had some data to argue with. alpha wolf on the other hand is just jaw droppingly dumb and illogical with his nonsense. i think its between him and bulls/23 33/hall of fame/(his other accounts) for worst poster ever in the history of this board.
What, alpha isn't kb24pa?

[Fatal9]

:oldlol: at this being an anti-Jordan thread. I was just watching some 1988 Bird highlights which is why I created this thread. In a traditional MVP race, 7 game edge (with Celtics being 2-4 without him, so really a 10+ game edge), when the statistics are this close (though Jordan has the edge), Bird would win the MVP. For some reason Jordan won it though. I'd almost attach an asterisk here...that's not to say he wasn't robbed of some MVP awards later on in his career.

[Jacks3]

jordan was overrated. peak bird>peak jordan

[Abraham Lincoln]

:oldlol: at this being an anti-Jordan thread. I was just watching some 1988 Bird highlights which is why I created this thread. In a traditional MVP race, 7 game edge (with Celtics being 2-4 without him, so really a 10+ game edge), when the statistics are this close (though Jordan has the edge), Bird would win the MVP. For some reason Jordan won it though. I'd almost attach an asterisk here...that's not to say he wasn't robbed of some MVP awards later on in his career.
http://www.troubleinrivercity.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/super-retard.jpg

[Jacks3]

LOL at the pathetic Jordan stans.:roll:
So sensitive

[Abraham Lincoln]

LOL at the pathetic Jordan stans.:roll:
So sensitive
For all the wise men of the land, the kindred creedence that be shared in the likeness of our great land since it's birth 11 score and 13 years ago be that the common man aspires to make haste in thy quest to become a wise man. You, KINGD, are headed in the opposite direction along with the savage Bryant fellator Fatal9. For Wilton Norman Chamberlain not only be the greatest of all time, but he be far, far, far superior to thou idol Bryant. Chamberlain be the top offensive force, defensive force, and rebounding force the association has ever seen.

[Jacks3]

For all the wise men of the land, the kindred creedence that be shared in the likeness of our great land since it's birth 11 score and 13 years ago be that the common man aspires to make haste in thy quest to become a wise man. You, KINGD, are headed in the opposite direction along with the savage Bryant fellator Fatal9. For Wilton Norman Chamberlain not only be the greatest of all time, but he be far, far, far superior to thou idol Bryant. Chamberlain be the top offensive force, defensive force, and rebounding force the association has ever seen.
Kobe>Wilt
4 rings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2 rings
Wilt was a fukin loser.:oldlol:

[Abraham Lincoln]

Kobe>Wilt
4 rings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2 rings
Wilt was a fukin loser.:oldlol:

Rookie of the Year (1959-1960 season)

NBA All-Star Game MVP 1960

4x NBA regular season MVP (1959-60, 1965-66, 1966-67, 1967-68 seasons)

7x All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68)

3x All-NBA Second Team ('63, '65, '72)

2x NBA champion (1967, '72)

1x NBA Finals MVP (1972)

2x All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73)

Inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame (1978)

One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

Chamberlain ranked #13 in ESPN list of top athletes of the 20th century


There be no chance of Bryant having ever competed against a team that be 1/4 a great as the Boston Celtics. For here be the likes of Chamberlain's offensive dominance. I shan't overwhelm thou with such obliterating record for his rebounding feats as well as his versatility & durability records.

NBA Records:

NBA Record - Most Points Per Game in a season (50.4 in the 1961-62)
Chamberlain also holds the next two highest with 44.8 in 1962-63 and 38.4 in 1960-61.

NBA Record - Most Points in a season (4,029 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next highest with 3,586 in 1960-61

NBA Record - Most Points Scored in a Game (100 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most Points Scored in a Half (59 in the 2nd half vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most 50 Point Games in a season (45 times in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next most with 30 in 1962-63. No other player has had more than 10.

NBA Record - Most 40 Point Games in a season (63 times in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next most with 52 in 1962-63. Michael Jordan holds third with 37 in 1986-87.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League in Points Per Game (7)
Record shared with Michael Jordan.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 60 Point Games (32 times)
Kobe Bryant is in second place with 5.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 50 Point Games (118 times)
Michael Jordan is in second place with 31.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 40 Point Games (271 times)[19]
Michael Jordan is in second place with 173.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 50 Point Games (7 times from December 16, 1961-December 29, 1961)
Chamberlain also holds the next three longest with 6 in 1962, 5 in 1961, and 5 in 1962

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 40 Point Games (14 times from December 8, 1961-December 30, 1961 and also 14 times from January 11, 1962-February 1, 1962)
Chamberlain also has the next most with 10 from November 9, 1962 through November 25, 1962

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 30 Point Games (65 from November 4, 1961-February 22, 1962)
Chamberlain holds the next two longest streaks with 31 in 1962 and 25 in 1960.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 20 Point Games (126 from October 19, 1961-January 19, 1963)
Chamberlain holds the next most with 92 from February 26, 1963 through March 18, 1964.

NBA Record - Most points per game by a rookie (37.6 in 1959-60)

NBA Record - Most points by a rookie (2,707 in 1959-60)

NBA Record - Most points by a rookie in a game (58 on January 25, 1960 and 58 on February 21, 1960)

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 20,000 Points (499 achieved in 1966)
Michael Jordan, at 620 games, took the second fewest games.

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 25,000 Points (691, achieved on February 23, 1968 against the Detroit Pistons)
Michael Jordan, at 782 games, took the second fewest games.

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 30,000 Points (941, achieved on February 16, 1972 against the Phoenix Suns).

NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading the league in field goals made (7 from 1959-60 through 1965-66)
Shared with Michael Jordan

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a season (1,597 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next three spots with 1,463 in 1962-63, 1,251 in 1960-61, and 1,204 in 1963-64

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a Game (36 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
Chamberlain holds the next highest with 31, and is tied (with Rick Barry) at third with 30

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Game (63 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
Chamberlain holds the next two most with 62 and 60.

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a Half (22 in the 2nd half vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Half (37 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962 (2nd half)

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Quarter (21 in the 4th quarter vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most Free Throws Made in a Game (28 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
Record shared with Adrian Dantley

NBA Record - Most seasons leading the NBA in free throw attempts (9)
NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading the NBA in free throw attempts (6 from 1959-60 through 1964-65)

NBA Record - Most Free Throws Attempted in a season (1,363 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain also holds the next four spots with 1,113, 1,054, 1,016, and 991.

NBA Record - Most Free Throws Attempted in a Game (34 vs. the St. Louis Hawks on February 22, 1962)

Chamberlain also holds second place with 32 on March 2, 1962.
NBA Playoff Record - Most points by a rookie in a game (53 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 14, 1960)

Pulled down a rookie playoff record 35 rebounds in the same game.
Chamberlain also scored 50 as a rookie against the Boston Celtics on March 22, 1960.

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goals in a seven game series (113 vs. the St. Louis Hawks in 1964)

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goals in a game (24 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 14, 1960)
Record shared with John Havlicek and Michael Jordan

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a game (48 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 22, 1962)
Record shared with Rick Barry

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a three game series (104 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1960)

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a five game series (159 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1962)

NBA All-Star Game Record - Points in a game (42 in 1962)

NBA All-Star Game Record - Field goals in a game (17 in 1962)
Record shared with Michael Jordan and Kevin Garnett

NBA All-Star Game Record - Field goals in a half (10 in 1962)

NBA All-Star Game Record - Free throw attempts in a game (16 in 1962)
Chamberlain also holds the second most attempts in an All-Star Game with 15 in 1960.

[Fatal9]

There's clearly some question marks about his MVP victory in '88 but that pales in comparison to him winning DPOY that very same year.

Forget the fact that Jordan wasn't even in his defensive prime yet. Voters seem to be impressed by his 3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks while roaming around on defense, but what about Hakeem's 2.1 steals and 2.7 blocks (+ the huge defensive rebounding edge)? Clearly these type of statistics don't mean much but if that was the reasoning of putting him #1, then it fails because Hakeem was better. Then you consider that Hakeem led the league in individual defensive rating, whereas Jordan was no where close to the top. Then you consider their respective positions. At this point you are probably laughing your ass off, because what kind of moronic voters would equate the impact of the best defensive center in the league to a shooting guard who roams passing lanes 20 ft away from the basket? Retarded, right?

One of the biggest injustices in the history of that award imo. I would love for anyone to justify him winning it. An asterisk if I ever saw one.

[Dave3]

There's clearly some question marks about his MVP victory in '88 but that pales in comparison to him winning DPOY that very same year.

Forget the fact that Jordan wasn't even in his defensive prime yet. Voters seem to be impressed by his 3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks while roaming around on defense, but what about Hakeem's 2.1 steals and 2.7 blocks (+ the huge defensive rebounding edge)? Clearly these type of statistics don't mean much but if that was the reasoning of putting him #1, then it fails because Hakeem was better. Then you consider that Hakeem led the league in individual defensive rating, whereas Jordan was no where close to the top. Then you consider their respective positions. At this point you are probably laughing your ass off, because what kind of moronic voters would equate the impact of the best defensive center in the league to a shooting guard who roams passing lanes 20 ft away from the basket? Retarded, right?

One of the biggest injustices in the history of that award imo. I would love for anyone to justify him winning it. An asterisk if I ever saw one.
If watching Bird tapes made you bring up the MVP award, why are you diverting your attention to the DPOY award all of a sudden? Why not staying on topic in your own thread?

[Jacks3]

Rookie of the Year (1959-1960 season)

NBA All-Star Game MVP 1960

4x NBA regular season MVP (1959-60, 1965-66, 1966-67, 1967-68 seasons)

7x All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68)

3x All-NBA Second Team ('63, '65, '72)

2x NBA champion (1967, '72)

1x NBA Finals MVP (1972)

2x All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73)

Inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame (1978)

One of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).

Chamberlain ranked #13 in ESPN list of top athletes of the 20th century


There be no chance of Bryant having ever competed against a team that be 1/4 a great as the Boston Celtics. For here be the likes of Chamberlain's offensive dominance. I shan't overwhelm thou with such obliterating record for his rebounding feats as well as his versatility & durability records.

NBA Records:

NBA Record - Most Points Per Game in a season (50.4 in the 1961-62)
Chamberlain also holds the next two highest with 44.8 in 1962-63 and 38.4 in 1960-61.

NBA Record - Most Points in a season (4,029 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next highest with 3,586 in 1960-61

NBA Record - Most Points Scored in a Game (100 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most Points Scored in a Half (59 in the 2nd half vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most 50 Point Games in a season (45 times in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next most with 30 in 1962-63. No other player has had more than 10.

NBA Record - Most 40 Point Games in a season (63 times in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next most with 52 in 1962-63. Michael Jordan holds third with 37 in 1986-87.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive Seasons Leading League in Points Per Game (7)
Record shared with Michael Jordan.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 60 Point Games (32 times)
Kobe Bryant is in second place with 5.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 50 Point Games (118 times)
Michael Jordan is in second place with 31.

NBA Record - Most Career Regular Season 40 Point Games (271 times)[19]
Michael Jordan is in second place with 173.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 50 Point Games (7 times from December 16, 1961-December 29, 1961)
Chamberlain also holds the next three longest with 6 in 1962, 5 in 1961, and 5 in 1962

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 40 Point Games (14 times from December 8, 1961-December 30, 1961 and also 14 times from January 11, 1962-February 1, 1962)
Chamberlain also has the next most with 10 from November 9, 1962 through November 25, 1962

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 30 Point Games (65 from November 4, 1961-February 22, 1962)
Chamberlain holds the next two longest streaks with 31 in 1962 and 25 in 1960.

NBA Record - Most Consecutive 20 Point Games (126 from October 19, 1961-January 19, 1963)
Chamberlain holds the next most with 92 from February 26, 1963 through March 18, 1964.

NBA Record - Most points per game by a rookie (37.6 in 1959-60)

NBA Record - Most points by a rookie (2,707 in 1959-60)

NBA Record - Most points by a rookie in a game (58 on January 25, 1960 and 58 on February 21, 1960)

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 20,000 Points (499 achieved in 1966)
Michael Jordan, at 620 games, took the second fewest games.

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 25,000 Points (691, achieved on February 23, 1968 against the Detroit Pistons)
Michael Jordan, at 782 games, took the second fewest games.

NBA Record - Fewest Games Played to Reach 30,000 Points (941, achieved on February 16, 1972 against the Phoenix Suns).

NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading the league in field goals made (7 from 1959-60 through 1965-66)
Shared with Michael Jordan

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a season (1,597 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain holds the next three spots with 1,463 in 1962-63, 1,251 in 1960-61, and 1,204 in 1963-64

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a Game (36 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
Chamberlain holds the next highest with 31, and is tied (with Rick Barry) at third with 30

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Game (63 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
Chamberlain holds the next two most with 62 and 60.

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Made in a Half (22 in the 2nd half vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Half (37 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962 (2nd half)

NBA Record - Most Field Goals Attempted in a Quarter (21 in the 4th quarter vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)

NBA Record - Most Free Throws Made in a Game (28 vs. the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962)
Record shared with Adrian Dantley

NBA Record - Most seasons leading the NBA in free throw attempts (9)
NBA Record - Most consecutive seasons leading the NBA in free throw attempts (6 from 1959-60 through 1964-65)

NBA Record - Most Free Throws Attempted in a season (1,363 in 1961-62)
Chamberlain also holds the next four spots with 1,113, 1,054, 1,016, and 991.

NBA Record - Most Free Throws Attempted in a Game (34 vs. the St. Louis Hawks on February 22, 1962)

Chamberlain also holds second place with 32 on March 2, 1962.
NBA Playoff Record - Most points by a rookie in a game (53 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 14, 1960)

Pulled down a rookie playoff record 35 rebounds in the same game.
Chamberlain also scored 50 as a rookie against the Boston Celtics on March 22, 1960.

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goals in a seven game series (113 vs. the St. Louis Hawks in 1964)

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goals in a game (24 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 14, 1960)
Record shared with John Havlicek and Michael Jordan

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a game (48 vs. the Syracuse Nationals on March 22, 1962)
Record shared with Rick Barry

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a three game series (104 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1960)

NBA Playoff Record - Most field goal attempts in a five game series (159 vs. the Syracuse Nationals in 1962)

NBA All-Star Game Record - Points in a game (42 in 1962)

NBA All-Star Game Record - Field goals in a game (17 in 1962)
Record shared with Michael Jordan and Kevin Garnett

NBA All-Star Game Record - Field goals in a half (10 in 1962)

NBA All-Star Game Record - Free throw attempts in a game (16 in 1962)
Chamberlain also holds the second most attempts in an All-Star Game with 15 in 1960.
Who cares about numbers he put up in the weakest era in NBA history. Kobe played in a far tougher era and still has 2X as many rings.:roll:

[Fatal9]

If watching Bird tapes made you bring up the MVP award, why are you diverting your attention to the DPOY award all of a sudden? Why not staying on topic in your own thread?
That was just a bonus comment. Didn't feel like it deserved its own thread (or maybe it does?).

It underscores a point that I think we all realize, hype prevailed over sound judgement that year.

[Dave3]

That was just a bonus comment. Didn't feel like it deserved its own thread (or maybe it does?).

It underscores a point that I think we all realize, hype prevailed over sound judgement that year.
But how does that come to mind when this whole topic apparently came into your head from watching Bird? Do you watch everything while thinking "how do I discredit a player I hate?"

[Abraham Lincoln]

Who cares about numbers he put up in the weakest era in NBA history. Kobe played in a far tougher era and still has 2X as many rings.:roll:
Tougher era? Alas, expansion has brutalized the depth of the association since the 1990's. Now it be possible to get to the Finals with a mere 1 star. Alas, he be very fortunate for all the wise men of the land shan't dispute the superiority of Shaquille O'Neal over the likes of Hal Greer. Neither shall the wise man dispute the superiority of Bill Russell's Celtics to any team of the past 2 decades.

[Abraham Lincoln]

But how does that come to mind when this whole topic apparently came into your head from watching Bird? Do you watch everything while thinking "how do I discredit a player I hate?"
Apparently Michael Jordan actually be his favorite player, as be the likes of Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, & Scottie Pippen.

[Dave3]

Apparently Michael Jordan actually be his favorite player, as be the likes of Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, & Scottie Pippen.
O no, I know don't worry. It's kinda retarded to pretend someone's your favourite player but then put him down in every thread you make. It's a horrible cover that no one believes.

[Jacks3]

LOL at anybody who thinks the 50's and 60's were better then this era.:roll:

[Da_Realist]

:oldlol: at this being an anti-Jordan thread. I was just watching some 1988 Bird highlights which is why I created this thread. In a traditional MVP race, 7 game edge (with Celtics being 2-4 without him, so really a 10+ game edge), when the statistics are this close (though Jordan has the edge), Bird would win the MVP. For some reason Jordan won it though. I'd almost attach an asterisk here...that's not to say he wasn't robbed of some MVP awards later on in his career.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Jacks3]

If Kobe jacked up as many shots as Jordan did their scoring numbers be similar




Kobe: 19.2 FGA , .455%

Jordan: 22.9 FGA , .497%


Jordan led the league in FGA a record NINE TIMES! Plus, he wasn't a very good three-point shooter, so the league moved in the line for him (to the college level). Kobe had to shoot 3's from a man-sized distance!


If Kobe had the benefit of a shortened 3-point line and if he decided to shoot more instead of involving his teammates their numbers be about the same
:bowdown:

[Fatal9]

O no, I know don't worry. It's kinda retarded to pretend someone's your favourite player but then put him down in every thread you make. It's a horrible cover that no one believes.
Like I care :confusedshrug:

Apparently people on this board know my favorite players better than me? :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

What, alpha isn't kb24pa?

Not the same person.

[Jacks3]

hmmm

Kobe is still playing he's only 30 years old he has 4 rings and he is just getting started

Jordan is retired and will NEVER play again




Kobe >>> Mike


and by the end of his career he'll have more rings


Kobe has 4 rings and is only 30 yrs old.......cry haters :cheers:



http://tunyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_his_4th_ring.jpg
:applause:

[Da_Realist]

If Kobe jacked up as many shots as Jordan did their scoring numbers be similar




Kobe: 19.2 FGA , .455%

Jordan: 22.9 FGA , .497%


If Kobe had the benefit of a shortened 3-point line and if he decided to shoot more instead of involving his teammates their numbers be about the same

Jordan shot more and shot a much higher fg%! :oldlol:

[Dave3]

Like I care :confusedshrug:

Apparently people on this board know my favorite players better than me? :oldlol:
Well, it prevents most people from taking your opinion seriously, and on a forum where opinions are discussed, I think that's not such a good idea lol.
I mean, come on man, if you're going to say a player is your favourite, but discredit and criticize him in favour of every other player you can, making threads about how he doesn't deserve his awards and there should be asterisks put beside them (like they should in baseball when people take illegal drugs) all based on your subjective opinion, what are people supposed to think?

Again, you can say "I don't give a ****" but if you really didn't why would you be making these threads in the first place? So the few diehard Kobe fans here who think Kobe is better than Jordan like Alphawolf and Jacks can come out and agree with you while almost everyone else ridicules you? Doesn't make much sense to me...

[Jacks3]

Kobe 1st 5 yrs the man:2 finals, 1 championship
Jordan 1st 5 yrs as the man:nothing
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Fatal9]

Well, it prevents most people from taking your opinion seriously, and on a forum where opinions are discussed, I think that's not such a good idea lol.
Check my posts. Everything is backed up by facts and observation. I don't give any players the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't matter if they are my favorite or not. Usually like I mentioned earlier, Jordan is brought up because through comparing him with others is the best way I feel to get some posters here to realize the greatness of players like Kareem, Pippen, Bird etc.

Again, :oldlol: at Kobe being somehow related to this. How does Bird imo being more deserving of MVP in '88 mean Kobe > Jordan? That's rich.

[qrich]

Jordan shot more and shot a much higher fg%! :oldlol:

Exactly, just goes to show that if Kobe shot more, his FG would take an even bigger dip.

[Dave3]

Check my posts. Everything is backed up by facts and observation. I don't give any players the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't matter if they are my favorite or not. Usually like I mentioned earlier, Jordan is brought up because through comparing him with others is the best way I feel to get some posters here to realize the greatness of players like Kareem, Pippen, Bird etc.

Again, :oldlol: at Kobe being somehow related to this. How does Bird imo being more deserving of MVP in '88 mean Kobe > Jordan? That's rich.
No it doesn't. A better way of getting players recognized is highlights of their careers and then mentioning how they had seasons of statistical dominance that rivaled Jordan and played as well as he did at times. That's clearly not the point of this thread, as you've tried to not only take away an award from Jordan, but in the process mention how he doesn't deserve the DPOY either, when it's completely irrelevant to making Bird look any better (which is your supposed point) when both ways it's commonly accepted that he was far superior to Bird defensively.
Another thing is, you don't just bring up facts, but you present them in biased ways, such as rounding up one players numbers, while keeping the other's as decimals, or not including something like 3.2 spgm which is a huge deal, into the comparison. Subtleties like that show bias.
You can show the greatness of players sure, but when you're always doing it in a way that's somehow underhanded and taking away from Jordan's accomplishments bit by bit, and agenda becomes clear.

Also, Kobe being brought up is from taking your posts in context. If a poster is always bashing any rivals of a certain player in any way and talks about that player being great all the time, then is wearing his jersey while making the excuse it was because it was a hot day (even though that material makes people even hotter...) then the consensus becomes that this poster is a fan of the given player. I mean, is it really coincidence that almost every single poster that's replied has assumed this is indirectly related to Kobe? Again, when you do stuff like this, opinions are taken less seriously, and post your posts on the forum become less effective.

[ktj1212]

i'm not sure what sorts of drugs you have to be on to believe olajuwon deserved the dpoy award over jordan in '88. first of all, jordan led the league in steals with a mind boggling 259 picks, the seventh highest single season steals total in league history. second, he had an even more impressive 131 swats that season, to this day the highest single season blocks total by a guard in league history. in doing so, he broke the previous record of 125 set by him the previous season. as for olajuwon, he didn't even lead the league in blocks that year, actually finishing fourth. i'm not saying that makes him any less of a defender, but we're talking about dpoy here, and he wasn't even the best at his particular specialty (blocks), where as jordan was (steals). on top of that, jordan averaged 35pts a game along with five boards and five dimes. yes, bird had an incredible season, but the season mj had was simply historic.

[Knoe Itawl]

This dumb**** Fatal can't actually believe that everyone on here has the IQ of kb2pah, or alpha dog or Kobe Knobslobbers so they'll actually buy his "Who me, I love Jordan!" routine so it's pretty clear he does this as a Bryant Fanatic who just wants to take jabs at Jordan to diminish his legacy bit by bit so that Kobe gets ever so closer to him. He figures by taking the "Jordan's my favorite player, I'm just being objective" that some people will take him seriously.

He figures it won't work doing the Kb2pah, alpha dogg route because people just dismiss them as idiots. By taking an intricate route of subtely diminishing Jordan's legacy, he feels it will be much more effective.

Perhaps it is to the easily led, but not by those that know better.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe didn't start because he was not good enough to. His scrawny ass would've been filleted because it was a physical game- a man's game. Take a look at what Lebron did at the same age as your hero during the tougher 'zone' era. :oldlol:

Lebron Rookie Year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-bTLOM0c2M)


How many 50 point games did Kobe have before the 'zone' era? 1, maybe. :roll:



Better yet.. How did Kobe do in the 2004-2005 season.. Before the no touch rules.. Don't give me the ankle injury excuse.. BECAUSE he was shooting 39 percent before the ankle injury... HOW MANY 50 PT GAMES DID HE GET THAT YEAR?

[iDunk]

Kwame Brown, he put exceptional numbers that year and had a great season. Much better than MJ or Bird combined. Summing up, I saw Kwame Brown deserved that 88 MVP trophy.

[chitownsfinest]

There's clearly some question marks about his MVP victory in '88 but that pales in comparison to him winning DPOY that very same year.

Forget the fact that Jordan wasn't even in his defensive prime yet. Voters seem to be impressed by his 3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks while roaming around on defense, but what about Hakeem's 2.1 steals and 2.7 blocks (+ the huge defensive rebounding edge)? Clearly these type of statistics don't mean much but if that was the reasoning of putting him #1, then it fails because Hakeem was better. Then you consider that Hakeem led the league in individual defensive rating, whereas Jordan was no where close to the top. Then you consider their respective positions. At this point you are probably laughing your ass off, because what kind of moronic voters would equate the impact of the best defensive center in the league to a shooting guard who roams passing lanes 20 ft away from the basket? Retarded, right?

One of the biggest injustices in the history of that award imo. I would love for anyone to justify him winning it. An asterisk if I ever saw one.
Top 5 Defensive Ratings that yr:
1. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 98.0
2. Mark Eaton-UTA 100.7
3. Karl Malone-UTA 100.8
4. Roy Tarpley-DAL 101.0
5. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 101.3
Notice they are all bigs that are in the top 5. The stat clearly benefits big men.
Jordan's defensive rating that yr: 101.5
You claim he was not even close to the top, yet the gap between him and second is really small.
Jordan that season anchored a defense that finished third in defensive rating that season. Hakeem anchored one that finished 4th. It is more impressive for a guard to anchor a top defense then it is for a center.

[Duncan21formvp]

This dumb**** Fatal can't actually believe that everyone on here has the IQ of kb2pah, or alpha dog or Kobe Knobslobbers so they'll actually buy his "Who me, I love Jordan!" routine so it's pretty clear he does this as a Bryant Fanatic who just wants to take jabs at Jordan to diminish his legacy bit by bit so that Kobe gets ever so closer to him. He figures by taking the "Jordan's my favorite player, I'm just being objective" that some people will take him seriously.

He figures it won't work doing the Kb2pah, alpha dogg route because people just dismiss them as idiots. By taking an intricate route of subtely diminishing Jordan's legacy, he feels it will be much more effective.

Perhaps it is to the easily led, but not by those that know better.

Excellent post!!
:cheers:

[ktj1212]

let me say it again: jordan set the record that season for blocks by a guard, with 131, breaking his own record of 125 set the previous season. both totals are still the two highest single season blocks totals for a guard in league history. AND he LED the league in steals, finishing with the seventh highest single season total in league history (259). and of course olajuwon had more rebounds, he was a center!
also, dismissing mj's defense as "roaming" is ridiculous. how many opposing coaches have praised him up and down for his on the ball, one on one defense?? granted, he'd yet to become the skilled straight up defender that he would later. but his instincts for anticipation on defense were previously unseen in the nba, as was his propensity for shot-blocking at the guard position. olajuwon was good yes, but mj was simply spectacular.

[juju151111]

Check my posts. Everything is backed up by facts and observation. I don't give any players the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't matter if they are my favorite or not. Usually like I mentioned earlier, Jordan is brought up because through comparing him with others is the best way I feel to get some posters here to realize the greatness of players like Kareem, Pippen, Bird etc.

Again, :oldlol: at Kobe being somehow related to this. How does Bird imo being more deserving of MVP in '88 mean Kobe > Jordan? That's rich.
Why bring MJ in it through?? Just make a tribute thread and don't mention MJ in a direct or indirect way. lol Did you just say Mj should have a asterisk next to his 88 MVP?:lol :oldlol: :roll: :wtf: :wtf:

[Meticode]

Jacks3 is like Bruceblitz, but opposite. :lol

[NBASTATMAN]

Top 5 Defensive Ratings that yr:
1. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 98.0
2. Mark Eaton-UTA 100.7
3. Karl Malone-UTA 100.8
4. Roy Tarpley-DAL 101.0
5. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 101.3
Notice they are all bigs that are in the top 5. The stat clearly benefits big men.
Jordan's defensive rating that yr: 101.5
You claim he was not even close to the top, yet the gap between him and second is really small.
Jordan that season anchored a defense that finished third in defensive rating that season. Hakeem anchored one that finished 4th. It is more impressive for a guard to anchor a top defense then it is for a center.



hmm has Kobe ever finished top 10 in defensive rating? I know the answer... :roll:

[chitownsfinest]

hmm has Kobe ever finished top 10 in defensive rating? I know the answer... :roll:
I just checked and he has only been top 20 once this entire decade.

[D-Rose]

hmm has Kobe ever finished top 10 in defensive rating? I know the answer... :roll:
Kobe has what to do with defensive rating in 1988? :oldlol:

[chitownsfinest]

Here is more dirt: Since MJ won it in 88, only two other perimeter players have won it (GP and Artest). When GP won it, he was ranked 15th in defensive rating with the top 5 being centers/pf's. I guess he didn't deserve it because he wasn't near the top. When Ron won it, he was ranked 11th with the top 5 again being (you guessed it) pf's/centers (including the great Rasho Nesterovic!). Should we take the award away from Ron because he wasn't top 5? All this shows that defensive rating is biased towards big men and not perimeter players. I think the fact MJ was close to all those bigs in terms of defensive rating is a feat in its own.

[Dave3]

Kobe has what to do with defensive rating in 1988? :oldlol:
The same as the '88 MVP has to do with the fact that Jordan was behind Hakeem's defensive rating...NOTHING:D

[Fatal9]

Top 5 Defensive Ratings that yr:
1. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 98.0
2. Mark Eaton-UTA 100.7
3. Karl Malone-UTA 100.8
4. Roy Tarpley-DAL 101.0
5. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 101.3
Notice they are all bigs that are in the top 5. The stat clearly benefits big men.
Jordan's defensive rating that yr: 101.5
You claim he was not even close to the top, yet the gap between him and second is really small.
Jordan that season anchored a defense that finished third in defensive rating that season. Hakeem anchored one that finished 4th. It is more impressive for a guard to anchor a top defense then it is for a center.
:roll:

You are a serious f*cking groupie. The fact that you are trying to say a freaking roaming shooting guard anchored a defense pretty much makes you worthy of being on my ignore list.

Hey genius, why do you think big men are tops in defensive ratings? They have more impact defensively than a shooting guard, as they cover pick and rolls, change shots in the lane, protect easy baskets etc etc. You are actually trying to tell me Michael Jordan deserved DPOY that year over Hakeem? Get the f*ck out of here. Even the other resident Jordan groupies aren't going to go that far. Funny thing is 1987-1988 wasn't even the year when Jordan was at his peak defensively (or even close to his defense from 1988-1989 season onward), just the season he put up his best steal/block stats, which means little.

LOL again at Jordan "anchoring" the defense :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

The true travesties in MVP voting are.


1978 Walton over Gervin
1993 Barkley over Hakeem(and Jordan)
1997 Malone over Jordan
1999 Malone over Duncan
2001 Iverson over Shaq
2005 Nash over Shaq
2006 Nash over Dirk(and Lebron)

I hate putting Walton on the list because I really like him, but he only played 58 games in his MVP season.

And I can't help but laugh at Kobe groupies comparing him to Jordan. Jordan was better in every aspect of the game. Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team for atleast 7 of the first 8 seasons of his career. Jordan's scoring numbers blow Kobe's away and that's with handchecking legal in Jordan's era. Kobe's numbers have been higher than they would have been since the rule changes.

[Living Being]

Cedric Ceballos blindfold dunk > Kobe's best dunk ever

[Fatal9]

And I can't help but laugh at Kobe groupies comparing him to Jordan. Jordan was better in every aspect of the game. Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team for atleast 7 of the first 8 seasons of his career. Jordan's scoring numbers blow Kobe's away and that's with handchecking legal in Jordan's era. Kobe's numbers have been higher than they would have been since the rule changes.
Yup, not sure what they are getting at. The only thing Kobe has on Jordan is range, but in every other aspect of the game Jordan is superior (like I've said before). Anyone who gives them attention is just as much at fault though. There is an ignore button, maybe people should use it? :confusedshrug:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yup, not sure what they are getting at. The only thing Kobe has on Jordan is range, but in every other aspect of the game Jordan is superior (like I've said before). Anyone who gives them attention is just as much at fault though. There is an ignore button, maybe people should use it? :confusedshrug:

You're right, it would be better to ignore them. For some reason I rarely do though.

[juju151111]

:roll:

You are a serious f*cking groupie. The fact that you are trying to say a freaking roaming shooting guard anchored a defense pretty much makes you worthy of being on my ignore list.

Hey genius, why do you think big men are tops in defensive ratings? They have more impact defensively than a shooting guard, as they cover pick and rolls, change shots in the lane, protect easy baskets etc etc. You are actually trying to tell me Michael Jordan deserved DPOY that year over Hakeem? Get the f*ck out of here. Even the other resident Jordan groupies aren't going to go that far. Funny thing is 1987-1988 wasn't even the year when Jordan was at his peak defensively (or even close to his defense from 1988-1989 season onward), just the season he put up his best steal/block stats, which means little.

LOL again at Jordan "anchoring" the defense :oldlol:
Why do you ignore most posts and pick the one you think you could answer best. Chi just put up a great arguement about GP and Artest, but yet you seem to miss it. Just like when Don destroys your arguements you never come back in the thread. Everyone knows your fake even your fellow Kobe fans know this. Just stop you get embarrass way too much.:banghead:

[chitownsfinest]

Oh noez! I'm in Fatal's ignore list! What to do now?

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe has what to do with defensive rating in 1988? :oldlol:


Kobe has nothing to do with the defensive rating period... :lol .. I felt like jabbing at a kobe stan or two.. Still I have the utmost respect for Kobe.. Some on this board overrate him but alot also underrate him.. The guy is one of the most skilled players I have seen... Love to watch him play.. Love it more when he loses and I watch.. :lol

[D-Rose]

Kobe has nothing to do with the defensive rating period... :lol .. I felt like jabbing at a kobe stan or two.. Still I have the utmost respect for Kobe.. Some on this board overrate him but alot also underrate him.. The guy is one of the most skilled players I have seen... Love to watch him play.. Love it more when he loses and I watch.. :lol
The have so much respect for Kobe but you bash him at literaly every chance you get, what a moron :rolleyes:

[NBASTATMAN]

:lol
The have so much respect for Kobe but you bash him at literaly every chance you get, what a moron :rolleyes:



I respect his game.. NOt the person... Two different things... moron...:roll:

[D-Rose]

:lol



I respect his game.. NOt the person... Two different things... moron...:roll:
I'm only quoting you


Still I have the utmost respect for Kobe

You didn't say Kobe's game, you said Kobe, that means all of him game and person.

Moron :oldlol:

[NBASTATMAN]

I'm only quoting you



You didn't say Kobe's game, you said Kobe, that means all of him game and person.

Moron :oldlol:


Well I have always written about how I respected Kobe's skills.. Never the guy.. Now you know... So when I diss him I usually diss the guy.. Though I will point out that I think Kobe is overrated defensively...

[guy]

:roll:

You are a serious f*cking groupie. The fact that you are trying to say a freaking roaming shooting guard anchored a defense pretty much makes you worthy of being on my ignore list.

Hey genius, why do you think big men are tops in defensive ratings? They have more impact defensively than a shooting guard, as they cover pick and rolls, change shots in the lane, protect easy baskets etc etc. You are actually trying to tell me Michael Jordan deserved DPOY that year over Hakeem? Get the f*ck out of here. Even the other resident Jordan groupies aren't going to go that far. Funny thing is 1987-1988 wasn't even the year when Jordan was at his peak defensively (or even close to his defense from 1988-1989 season onward), just the season he put up his best steal/block stats, which means little.

LOL again at Jordan "anchoring" the defense :oldlol:

Hakeem was probably the best defender in the league for almost his whole career, and he has a total of 2 DPOYs. To nitpick at this 1 year clearly shows an agenda. And really, Jordan was a roaming shooting guard? LOL. You're acting like he was Lebron James of this year, or even worse, what Allen Iverson has been his whole career. Do you honestly think Jordan was ever like Allen Iverson on defense? Cause thats a guy who "roams" and plays the passing lanes, while completely forgetting about his man. You clearly don't know much about Jordan. Jordan was a great lockdown defender back then.

[Roundball_Rock]

Tougher era? Alas, expansion has brutalized the depth of the association since the 1990's. Now it be possible to get to the Finals with a mere 1 star.

So what? In Russell's day you had to beat 7 teams to win a ring. :roll: Yes, a given 60's team>a given 2000's or 90's team but that is irrelevant. The key is relative talent. So what if a team Russell crushed was stacked? His team was even more stacked. Expansion has actually made it more difficult to win championships. Now you have to beat nearly 30 teams to win. The average team is more diluted but dilution applies across the board. That combined with the sheer greater number of teams competing make it much more difficult to win a ring today than in the weak 50's and 60's. Making the conference finals in 2009>>>a 60's ring.


Top 5 Defensive Ratings that yr:
1. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 98.0
2. Mark Eaton-UTA 100.7
3. Karl Malone-UTA 100.8
4. Roy Tarpley-DAL 101.0
5. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 101.3
Notice they are all bigs that are in the top 5. The stat clearly benefits big men.

Yes, it is no coincidence that only one SF/SG/PG has ever led the league in defensive rating: Scottie Pippen. This achievement, despite the stat being biased in favor of C's and PF's, illustrates how dominant he was defensively. :bowdown:

[Fatal9]

Hakeem was probably the best defender in the league for almost his whole career, and he has a total of 2 DPOYs. To nitpick at this 1 year clearly shows an agenda. And really, Jordan was a roaming shooting guard? LOL. You're acting like he was Lebron James of this year, or even worse, what Allen Iverson has been his whole career. Do you honestly think Jordan was ever like Allen Iverson on defense? Cause thats a guy who "roams" and plays the passing lanes, while completely forgetting about his man. You clearly don't know much about Jordan. Jordan was a great lockdown defender back then.
More like you clearly don't know much about him. Jordan wasn't the "lockdown" defender that people remember until around the '89 season in my judgement. A shooting guard doesn't get those type of steal/block numbers unless he IS roaming (you think he was playing man to man and stripping/blocking his man every time? :oldlol:). Check the years when he was clearly a better defender (more intelligent, less stat oriented, better man-to-man), his steal/block numbers aren't as high but his defense was spectacular. Jordan was a good defender during the '87-'88 season but not the type you are making him out to be or as great as he would be in later years (his true prime years). Only a clueless idiot would consider this one of Jordan's better defensive seasons just because the stat sheet says so. And it would take an even larger idiot to pretend like Jordan had the same impact as Hakeem defensively, and was more worthy of the award.

[juju151111]

More like you clearly don't know much about him. Jordan wasn't the "lockdown" defender that people remember until around the '89 season in my judgement. A shooting guard doesn't get those type of steal/block numbers unless he IS roaming (you think he was playing man to man and stripping/blocking his man every time? :oldlol:). Check the years when he was clearly a better defender (more intelligent, less stat oriented, better man-to-man), his steal/block numbers aren't as high but his defense was spectacular. Jordan was a good defender during the '87-'88 season but not the type you are making him out to be or as great as he would be in later years (his true prime years). Only a clueless idiot would consider this one of Jordan's better defensive seasons just because the stat sheet says so. And it would take an even larger idiot to pretend like Jordan had the same impact as Hakeem defensively, and was more worthy of the award.
Nice reply, but why did you ignore his question about 2 DPOTY Hakeem has? Why do you not round MJ nubers up? Why Do you spin facts? Why do you ignore 60% of posts that you know you can't back up, why do you pretend to like MJ, why in the last 3 days have u started pretending to hate Kobe. Why do you run out of threads when you get owned. When you can answer these questions maybe people can take you a tiny bit more seriously. Jack and Alpha don't pretend to be MJ fans so they can bash him so why should you.

[kap]

-edit- i htought it said 08

[chitownsfinest]

Yes, it is no coincidence that only one SF/SG/PG has ever led the league in defensive rating: Scottie Pippen. This achievement, despite the stat being biased in favor of C's and PF's, illustrates how dominant he was defensively. :bowdown:
Yeah and he did it in the year many consider to be the peak of the golden age of big men (94-95). He also was the leader in defensive rating in the playoffs twice I believe. The fact he did it in 94-95 was amazing considering Grant had departed and he had to guard the entire floor. I believe Pippen deserved the 94-95 DPOY more then he deserved the 94 MVP.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah and he did it in the year many consider to be the peak of the golden age of big men (94-95). He also was the leader in defensive rating in the playoffs twice I believe. The fact he did it in 94-95 was amazing considering Grant had departed and he had to guard the entire floor. I believe Pippen deserved the 94-95 DPOY more then he deserved the 94 MVP.

All good points. People forget that, despite Grant leaving, the Bulls actually improved from 6th to 2nd in defensive rating. This was mainly because of Pippen. Compare that ranking to that of the alleged DPOY's team: his team was a mediocre 14th of 27 in defensive rating.

Yes, he led the league in playoff defensive rating twice, 1991 and 1996. The latter is particularly impressive because he did this despite foot, neck, and back problems. :eek:

[Master Templar]

I'm just not a sheep to the media that makes me a troll?

man..... NIKE & ESPN has done a great job making you sheep believe all the hype now anyone who disagrees with you sheep is just labeled as a "hater" or "troll" then they get dismissed as just that




Thou, bretheren, are privy to the grand conspiracy propogated by the nefarious David Stern and his villanous ilk. I, the master templar, am keeper of age old secrets that if known by the public at large, would vindicate Kobe Bean Bryant as the greatest basketball player the world has and shall ever have the divine privelege of seeing. The myth of Jordan is merely a media concoction by the bastard offspring of my noble order- the freemasons, the new world order. It is refreshing to see those such as yourself who are not blinded by falacies.

The conspiracy runeth deep, the eye sees all.

http://z.hubpages.com/u/25755_f520.jpg

[magnax1]

Stockton and Jordan were close, people forget how crazy good stocktons stats were in his prim he went
points- 15
assists-14
steals-3
fg%- 57%!?!?!
I dont know why he never won MVP, but I guess since I'm sane I'd give it to jordan in basically what was his best season ever.

[Fatal9]

Quick fact I forgot to include:

Jordan and Steve Nash are the only MVPs to win when there has been a 7+ game difference in the conference to the best team, and also the only time an MVP wasn't on a top 3 seeded team in the conference since 1980 (possibly ever? haven't bothered to check). Plus Bird had an incredible 30/9/6 season, so Jordan while great statistically, doesn't have a massive edge (like Lebron/Kobe did on Nash). So yea, you can basically say he was "robbed" considering how the award is handed out traditionally.

Outrageous when you look back at it.

[DonDadda59]

When will Fatal learn that nothing he does or says will take away from Jordan's legacy? :oldlol:

But he is persistent, I'll give him that. That's why I signed him up for a top secret experiment:

Quantum Leap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJzVS_5XHr0)

He's leaping to '88 to snatch the MVP award from Jordan to give it to Bird. Then he's taking his DPOY that he didn't deserve and giving it to the Dream. Righting all of NBA history's wrongs, one leap at a time.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/874/quantumleap.jpg

God Speed :applause:

[Da_Realist]

When will Fatal learn that nothing he does or says will take away from Jordan's legacy? :oldlol:

But he is persistent, I'll give him that. That's why I signed him up for a top secret experiment:

Quantum Leap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJzVS_5XHr0)

He's leaping to '88 to snatch the MVP award from Jordan to give it to Bird. Then he's taking his DPOY that he didn't deserve and giving it to the Dream. Righting all of NBA history's wrongs, one leap at a time.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/874/quantumleap.jpg

God Speed :applause:

:roll:

[nnn123]

Quick fact I forgot to include:

Jordan and Steve Nash are the only MVPs to win when there has been a 7+ game difference in the conference to the best team, and also the only time an MVP wasn't on a top 3 seeded team in the conference since 1980 (possibly ever? haven't bothered to check). Plus Bird had an incredible 30/9/6 season, so Jordan while great statistically, doesn't have a massive edge (like Lebron/Kobe did on Nash). So yea, you can basically say he was "robbed" considering how the award is handed out traditionally.

Outrageous when you look back at it.

First of all, the Bulls won 50 games....it wasn't like they were some sort of crappy 42 win team....with the number of wins they had Jordan was in automatic serious contention for MVP. And secondly, if true, all your post does is prove how deadly Jordan's season was. He won MVP when another player had a 7+ game difference or whatever, meaning Jordan's season was so outrageous the voters felt that it made up for this difference....how many others could have a season like this? And honestly, I'd tend to believe voters who watched the entire season unfold and were there to critically analyze games rather than people 20 yrs later who were probably 3 years old at the time. It's easy to just look at stats 20 yrs later when you really have no idea how things transpired.

[chitownsfinest]

Quick fact I forgot to include:

Jordan and Steve Nash are the only MVPs to win when there has been a 7+ game difference in the conference to the best team, and also the only time an MVP wasn't on a top 3 seeded team in the conference since 1980 (possibly ever? haven't bothered to check). Plus Bird had an incredible 30/9/6 season, so Jordan while great statistically, doesn't have a massive edge (like Lebron/Kobe did on Nash). So yea, you can basically say he was "robbed" considering how the award is handed out traditionally.

Outrageous when you look back at it.
I love how you constantly get butt hurt over MJ winning dpoy over Hakeem, but fail to note that MJ had a much larger defensive impact then Bird, meaning the award is more in favor or him.

[chocolatethunder]

Jordan should have won it.

Though on another note, I hope this educates fans that Bird was better than Magic. I'm tired of seeing Magic placed above Birds on all time lists when it's hardly the truth.

What? If Bird wasn't white he's just be another player. He was all hype.

[DonDadda59]

What? If Bird wasn't white he's just be another player. He was all hype.

:rolleyes:

[AlphaWolf]

:oldlol: Jordan stans trying to rewrite history as usual. Nothing you can do that can change the facts. Get over it already.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xd7W6OPSCuI/SKx1ovWxhNI/AAAAAAAAA5A/w7sFbS9rB5g/s400/michael_jordan_trophy_rings.jpg
I fixed it for y'a..........

"Michael Jordan
after bieng "cut"(even though he played all 4 years)in Highschool he
carried the 1982 Tar Heels to the title all by himself, while playing all 5 positions.


And he had THE FLU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".........

Real basketball fans know....Larry(6 - 0 against the supposedly GOAT in the playoff's) is ">" then baldheaded Dominique Wilkins.

[Lebron23]

Michael Jordan

[godofgods]

Jordan should have won it.

Though on another note, I hope this educates fans that Bird was better than Magic. I'm tired of seeing Magic placed above Birds on all time lists when it's hardly the truth.

Magic played for the Lakers that's why he was overrated.

Magic is not better than Bird.

[AlphaWolf]

Magic played for the Lakers that's why he was overrated.

Magic is not better than Bird.


IMO he is.....Both are better then Jordan.

[Fatal9]

First of all, the Bulls won 50 games....it wasn't like they were some sort of crappy 42 win team....
50 wins is still crap by MVP award status. Only Moses Malone has won with fewer wins in the last 30 years. Bird put up 30/9/6 on insane efficiency on the best team in the conference. Hakeem and Bird both got robbed that year. No one is denying MJ had a great individual season, but that's not what the MVP award recognizes (top 2 or so team in the conference at the very least usually, but the Bulls weren't close). Bird took the last games of the season off, while Bulls were fighting for the 4th seed and it seems Bird got penalized because Boston lost those games. Regardless, an almost unreal precedence was set when they gave Jordan the award. A more appropriate year for his first MVP would have been 1990.

[nnn123]

50 wins is still crap by MVP award status. Only Moses Malone has won with fewer wins in the last 30 years. Bird put up 30/9/6 on insane efficiency on the best team in the conference. Hakeem and Bird both got robbed that year. No one is denying MJ had a great individual season, but that's not what the MVP award recognizes (top 2 or so team in the conference at the very least usually, but the Bulls weren't close). Bird took the last games of the season off, while Bulls were fighting for the 4th seed and it seems Bird got penalized because Boston lost those games. Regardless, an almost unreal precedence was set when they gave Jordan the award. A more appropriate year for his first MVP would have been 1990.

Here's a couple of people who won MVP before Jordan (didn't bother to look before 1976):

1976 - Kareem Abdul Jabbar (Team record): 40-42
1977 - Kareem Abdul Jabbar (Team record): 53-29
1979 - Moses Malone (Team record): 47-35
1982 - Moses Malone (Team record): 46-36

So, no, an "almost unreal precedence" was not given to Jordan when he won the award, it has happened before. The fact is, the team still won 50 games, which is usually enough for serious MVP contention. Bird put up 30/9/6 on unreal efficiency on a 57 win team, MJ put up 35/6/6 on equally unreal efficiency on a 50 win team, while playing world-class defense, perhaps the best in the league (whether you like it or not). Maybe this was just one of those dominating seasons that people couldn't ignore? I agree that it could have gone both ways, I am in no way suggesting that there is no argument for Bird...I'm just saying in no way did Bird get "robbed". It was an absolutely brilliant season by Jordan, well deserved.

[NBASTATMAN]

MJ had the best PER ever that year... Bird's PER doesn't even compare that year.. Neither does Hakeem... Forget what other jokesters write and go with the facts..... MJ led the league in OFFENSIVE WIN SHARES, WIN SHARES AND PER... This isn't even a argument... Hakeem had a better Defensive Win Shares but not by much.... MJ is the man... Just live with it... :rockon:

[chocolatethunder]

:rolleyes:
That was a joke genius. Unlike the rest of you clowns I was actually alive and in high school in '88.