Jordan/Hakeem/Wilt/Kobe & others getting shut down!

[Fatal9]

Basically, I am just chronicling the greatest players (top 10 or so) getting shut down in playoff series. Was interested to see these players at their worst, because you rarely hear it (especially for players who played before this decade).

By shutting down, I don't mean series where the players just had poor shooting nights because their shot was off, but where the defense directly led to the player having poor shooting nights, or significantly lowered production. For example, Jordan shot 42.7% in the '98 finals, but he wasn't shut down in that series by any means. I limited this to the top 10 or so players. Also only really including years each of these guys were the focal point on offense for their teams, so posting a bad series from Kareem's twilight years, or one that Magic had in the early 1980s, or Shaq's production dropping off in the '06 finals when it was Wade's team, isn't what we are looking for.

Wilt

'64 Celtics shut him down in the finals. In the season he averaged 37 ppg, and was averaging 39 ppg when he came into the series. It wasn't so much Russell being a great individual defender, Wilt scored on him quite easily in single coverage. But Wilt was denied the ball, to a point where most of his touches ended up coming from offensive boards (he did in fact set a record for rebounds in a 5 games series), and the double/triple teaming made it impossible for him to turn in either direction to score. I don't think Russell could even lock down Wilt without the enormous amount of help he got, and anytime you hear Wilt being locked down by Russell, just know it is a myth.

I am sure there have been other series where this happened but that one is the only one I've watched where it was clear Celtics just shut him down.


Hakeem

'90 Lakers, '96 Sonics. Sonics double or triple teamed Hakeem a lot in the series, particularly Payton or McMillain would be the one denying entry passes (big reason why Rockets shot so well from 3). Sonic guards were always around him, slapped the ball out of his hands a lot too (forced him to 16 turnovers in 3 games!). Didn't let him get into the first three games at all (shot just 18-45 in them). Here's how Hakeem put it: "They're determined to get the ball out of my hands," said Olajuwon, who took only nine shots. "So we have to adjust our system. They're coming at me even before the ball is thrown to the low post.

Jordan
You could start off with the '85 Bucks but Jordan was just in his rookie year so no need to include it.

'88 Pistons - Jordan Rules in effect. MJ averages just 27 ppg, which doesn't sound too bad but put it in context. Jordan would average 35+ ppg in the regular season prior to this series, he would usually need to score 30 just to keep the Bulls in the games, however, Pistons defense reduced his shot attempts significantly in the series. Not your traditional method of shutting down a player, but it worked as Bulls would get stomped in 5 games.

'89 Pistons - Jordan rules were NOT in effect. Jordan averaged just 25/5/6 on 39.7% shooting outside of game 3 & 6. His lack of aggresiveness, in games 4 and 5 lost the series for the Bulls. It may have been a coaching decision to use him as a decoy though.

'92 Cavs - Ironically, it was Crag Ehlo who played man to man defense and shut down Jordan, almost entirely on his own! After game 1, there was a lot of criticism of the Cavs, as they had writers calling them soft, creampuffs etc. This seemed to have inspired Ehlo for the rest of the series as he held Jordan to just 42.2% shooting after that game. Played him more physical than I've ever seen him play him and there were numerous times where he flat out snatched the ball from him (thereby forcing him into some very high turnover games (had 16 turnovers in a span of 3 games in fact). Even when Jordan scored, he had to sweat for each point. It's hard to believe when you consider their history prior to this series, but Ehlo shut down Mike in his prime! For some reason, you hear little about this, probably because Bulls won (which you expect no matter how poorly he shoots, Bulls were the better team).

'93 Knicks - We all know what happened here so I'll include just the statistics: 32.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 7 apg, 40.0 FG% (excluding game 3, he was just 27.8 ppg on 35.2 FG%)

'96 Sonics - Excellent post defense and cut any penetration to the lane. 27.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.2 apg, 41.1 FG%

'97 Heat - Discussed in earlier threads. 30.2 ppg, 8 rpg, 2.6 apg, 38.6 FG%.

Kareem

'72 Warriors, '73 Warriors.

Anyone know why he struggled against the Warriors so much? In '72 he put up 34 ppg on Wilt and the Lakers in the conference finals, but the series before he struggled against the Warriors. Then again the same thing happened next year. His production against the Warriors in these two years was horrible 23 ppg on 42% over the course of 11 playoff games. Nate Thurmond play him that well? By far the worst he's ever played against any opponent that I know of.

Kobe
'04 Pistons, '08 Celtics. We all know about this. Been discussed a million times before.

Bird
'88 Pistons - This is the only time I'd say Bird was really shut down in his career, and it was by far the worst series of his career. It's almost like a mystery as to why he shot so poorly. Part of it was the Piston defense (Bird said that Salley and other defenders sneaking up on the weak side really threw him off), but Bird wasn't hitting any of the clean looks either. Usually when Bird shoots this poorly, there is a reason (bad elbow and back vs. Lakers in the '85 finals, injured against the Bucks in '83), but I haven't heard of any injuries to him in this series. Daly, Thomas, and everyone on the Pistons was also perplexed (and cautious!) about why he was shooting so poorly, even though Bird has faced similar defensive pressure many times before. My only guess is exhaustion. Celtics came off a 7 game series with the Hawks and games 1 & 2 against the Pistons were on back to back nights. Celtics had a weak bench, the entire team was dealing with some sort of ailments and Bird was touching 32. Regardless, Bird shot 36% in the series (though his passing and rebounding was strong as usual) and didn't have a single good scoring game in the series. If anyone needs them, I have his game by game shooting numbers, and they are absolutely awful.

Magic
'91 Bulls, Jordan started out on him, Magic played well. Pippen was put on him, and as Phil Jackson said "changed our fortunes in that series" (credit to roundball for this quote). The full court defense exhausted Magic, he shot poorly the entire series, was a turnover machine, we all know about this.

Duncan
'04 Lakers, had many bad games against them in the early 2000s actually.

Shaq
'02 Spurs (is there any other time?)

Lebron
Only included him here because it's almost a guarantee that he'll be top 10 at the very least. For him I'd include the following series: '07 Spurs, '07 Nets, '08 Celtics, '07 Pistons (look beyond game 5 folks). Don't think he will be locked down like this again because his jumper has improved significantly since these series. Haven't checked but I am positive he shot in a range of around 35-42% in these series.

[Fatal9]

Interesting to see Jordan winning every series in the 90s that he was "shut down" or shot poorly in (< 43%). Don't see it with the rest of these guys though. I guess it's because of those darn intangibles!

That's beside the point, feel free to help me add on to the list.

[Master Templar]

Interesting to see Jordan winning every series in the 90s that he was "shut down" or shot poorly in (< 43%). Don't see it with the rest of these guys though. I guess it's because of those darn intangibles!

That's beside the point, feel free to help me add on to the list.

Thou art a seeker of truth bretheren. You have exposed the myth of Jordan as the GOAT. He was merely a pawn for the designs of secret, powerhungry organizations. But thou must take caution, the moutpieces of these sinister black hands shall descend upon this forum to smear thy name and factual research.

The conspiracy runeth deep, the eyes see all.

http://z.hubpages.com/u/25755_f520.jpg

[Fatal9]

Thou art a seeker of truth bretheren. You have exposed the myth of Jordan as the GOAT.
Not really. I was actually just pointing out how Jordan was so great that he could win games through his defense, passing and presence when his shot wasn't falling. This is something clearly he only possessed imo.

[Carbine]

A superstar like that is never "shut down" just because he's missing his shots - at least the great defending/rebounding big men and wing guys who set up teammates and play great perimeter defense/help defense aren't....

Anyways, it's no secret players have bad series.... basketball isn't an easy sport to shoot high percentages at all times, even for the best of them.

[lbj23clutch]

lol @ 07' nets and 07' pistons "shutting down" lebron.

[Fatal9]

Anyways, it's no secret players have bad series.... basketball isn't an easy sport to shoot high percentages at all times, even for the best of them.
Yea, like I pointed out earlier, this isn't really a thread to post every poor series a player had (that would be long and unnecessary). Just playoff series where I felt the greatest players struggled because of the defense they went up against. When you have Larry Bird or Michael Jordan shooting 35-40% in a series, it's more than just "poor shooting".

[lbj23clutch]

LMAO at your agenda, kobe shot 43% against the magic and you dont include it, yet you include the 07 pistons "shutting down" lebron even though lebron shot 45%.

[Duncan21formvp]

Basically, I am just chronicling the greatest players (top 10 or so) getting shut down in playoff series. Was interested to see these players at their worst, because you rarely hear it (especially for players who played before this decade).

By shutting down, I don't mean series where the players just had poor shooting nights because their shot was off, but where the defense directly led to the player having poor shooting nights, or significantly lowered production. For example, Jordan shot 42.7% in the '98 finals, but he wasn't shut down in that series by any means. I limited this to the top 10 or so players. Also only really including years each of these guys were the focal point on offense for their teams, so posting a bad series from Kareem's twilight years, or one that Magic had in the early 1980s, or Shaq's production dropping off in the '06 finals when it was Wade's team, isn't what we are looking for.

Wilt

'64 Celtics shut him down in the finals. In the season he averaged 37 ppg, and was averaging 39 ppg when he came into the series. It wasn't so much Russell being a great individual defender, Wilt scored on him quite easily in single coverage. But Wilt was denied the ball, to a point where most of his touches ended up coming from offensive boards (he did in fact set a record for rebounds in a 5 games series), and the double/triple teaming made it impossible for him to turn in either direction to score. I don't think Russell could even lock down Wilt without the enormous amount of help he got, and anytime you hear Wilt being locked down by Russell, just know it is a myth.

I am sure there have been other series where this happened but that one is the only one I've watched where it was clear Celtics just shut him down.


Hakeem

'90 Lakers, '96 Sonics. Sonics double or triple teamed Hakeem a lot in the series, particularly Payton or McMillain would be the one denying entry passes (big reason why Rockets shot so well from 3). Sonic guards were always around him, slapped the ball out of his hands a lot too (forced him to 16 turnovers in 3 games!). Didn't let him get into the first three games at all (shot just 18-45 in them). Here's how Hakeem put it: "They're determined to get the ball out of my hands," said Olajuwon, who took only nine shots. "So we have to adjust our system. They're coming at me even before the ball is thrown to the low post.

Jordan
You could start off with the '85 Bucks but Jordan was just in his rookie year so no need to include it.

'87 Celtics - Jordan shoots just 41.7% for the series.

'88 Pistons - Jordan Rules in effect. MJ averages just 27 ppg, which doesn't sound too bad but put it in context. Jordan would average 35+ ppg in the regular season prior to this series, he would usually need to score 30 just to keep the Bulls in the games, however, Pistons defense reduced his shot attempts significantly in the series. Not your traditional method of shutting down a player, but it worked as Bulls would get stomped in 5 games.

'89 Pistons - Jordan rules were NOT in effect. Jordan averaged just 25/5/6 on 39.7% shooting outside of game 3 & 6. His lack of aggresiveness, in games 4 and 5 lost the series for the Bulls. It may have been a coaching decision to use him as a decoy though.

'92 Cavs - Ironically, it was Crag Ehlo who played man to man defense and shut down Jordan, almost entirely on his own! After game 1, there was a lot of criticism of the Cavs, as they had writers calling them soft, creampuffs etc. This seemed to have inspired Ehlo for the rest of the series as he held Jordan to just 42.2% shooting after that game. Played him more physical than I've ever seen him play him and there were numerous times where he flat out snatched the ball from him (thereby forcing him into some very high turnover games (had 16 turnovers in a span of 3 games in fact). Even when Jordan scored, he had to sweat for each point. It's hard to believe when you consider their history prior to this series, but Ehlo shut down Mike in his prime! For some reason, you hear little about this, probably because Bulls won (which you expect no matter how poorly he shoots, Bulls were the better team).

'93 Knicks - We all know what happened here so I'll include just the statistics: 32.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 7 apg, 40.0 FG% (excluding game 3, he was just 27.8 ppg on 35.2 FG%)

'96 Sonics - Excellent post defense and cut any penetration to the lane. 27.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.2 apg, 41.1 FG%

'97 Heat - Discussed in earlier threads. 30.2 ppg, 8 rpg, 2.6 apg, 38.6 FG%.

Kareem

'72 Warriors, '73 Warriors.

Anyone know why he struggled against the Warriors so much? In '72 he put up 34 ppg on Wilt and the Lakers in the conference finals, but the series before he struggled against the Warriors. Then again the same thing happened next year. His production against the Warriors in these two years was horrible 23 ppg on 42% over the course of 11 playoff games. Nate Thurmond play him that well? By far the worst he's ever played against any opponent that I know of.

Kobe
'04 Pistons, '08 Celtics. We all know about this. Been discussed a million times before.

Bird
'88 Pistons - This is the only time I'd say Bird was really shut down in his career, and it was by far the worst series of his career. It's almost like a mystery as to why he shot so poorly. Part of it was the Piston defense (Bird said that Salley and other defenders sneaking up on the weak side really threw him off), but Bird wasn't hitting any of the clean looks either. Usually when Bird shoots this poorly, there is a reason (bad elbow and back vs. Lakers in the '85 finals, injured against the Bucks in '83), but I haven't heard of any injuries to him in this series. Daly, Thomas, and everyone on the Pistons was also perplexed (and cautious!) about why he was shooting so poorly, even though Bird has faced similar defensive pressure many times before. My only guess is exhaustion. Celtics came off a 7 game series with the Hawks and games 1 & 2 against the Pistons were on back to back nights. Celtics had a weak bench, the entire team was dealing with some sort of ailments and Bird was touching 32. Regardless, Bird shot 36% in the series (though his passing and rebounding was strong as usual) and didn't have a single good scoring game in the series. If anyone needs them, I have his game by game shooting numbers, and they are absolutely awful.

Magic
'91 Bulls, Jordan started out on him, Magic played well. Pippen was put on him, and as Phil Jackson said "changed our fortunes in that series" (credit to roundball for this quote). The full court defense exhausted Magic, he shot poorly the entire series, was a turnover machine, we all know about this.

Duncan
'04 Lakers, had many bad games against them in the early 2000s actually.

Shaq
'02 Spurs (is there any other time?)

Lebron
Only included him here because it's almost a guarantee that he'll be top 10 at the very least. For him I'd include the following series: '07 Spurs, '07 Nets, '08 Celtics, '07 Pistons (look beyond game 5 folks). Don't think he will be locked down like this again because his jumper has improved significantly since these series. Haven't checked but I am positive he shot in a range of around 35-42% in these series.

Shaq was shut down by Dampier. Kobe was shut down vs Indiana. 15 ppg on 37% fg. And no MJ wasn't shut down by those teams. He still averaged 27 ppg and averaged more than any other player in the series.

Shut down only applies when someone else in the series played better than you did.

[lbj23clutch]

kobe averaged 15ppg on 37% in the finals against the pacers..... but of course you wouldn't put it up.

[Carbine]

If this thread is to point out supertstars who have had bad offensive series because of the defense they faced, then I don't know why Duncan is on there for '04.... he was just missing shots he'd make regularly - and it's not like he even shot THAT bad, he was like 47 percent in that series.....he did turn the ball over more than usual, though.... but I don't believe this to be a series where the defense was the reason he didn't dominate offensivlely.....he merely didn't have a great series, just an average one for his standards.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan
You could start off with the '85 Bucks but Jordan was just in his rookie year so no need to include it.

'87 Celtics - Jordan shoots just 41.7% for the series.

'88 Pistons - Jordan Rules in effect. MJ averages just 27 ppg, which doesn't sound too bad but put it in context. Jordan would average 35+ ppg in the regular season prior to this series, he would usually need to score 30 just to keep the Bulls in the games, however, Pistons defense reduced his shot attempts significantly in the series. Not your traditional method of shutting down a player, but it worked as Bulls would get stomped in 5 games.

'89 Pistons - Jordan rules were NOT in effect. Jordan averaged just 25/5/6 on 39.7% shooting outside of game 3 & 6. His lack of aggresiveness, in games 4 and 5 lost the series for the Bulls. It may have been a coaching decision to use him as a decoy though.

'92 Cavs - Ironically, it was Crag Ehlo who played man to man defense and shut down Jordan, almost entirely on his own! After game 1, there was a lot of criticism of the Cavs, as they had writers calling them soft, creampuffs etc. This seemed to have inspired Ehlo for the rest of the series as he held Jordan to just 42.2% shooting after that game. Played him more physical than I've ever seen him play him and there were numerous times where he flat out snatched the ball from him (thereby forcing him into some very high turnover games (had 16 turnovers in a span of 3 games in fact). Even when Jordan scored, he had to sweat for each point. It's hard to believe when you consider their history prior to this series, but Ehlo shut down Mike in his prime! For some reason, you hear little about this, probably because Bulls won (which you expect no matter how poorly he shoots, Bulls were the better team).

'93 Knicks - We all know what happened here so I'll include just the statistics: 32.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 7 apg, 40.0 FG% (excluding game 3, he was just 27.8 ppg on 35.2 FG%)

'96 Sonics - Excellent post defense and cut any penetration to the lane. 27.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.2 apg, 41.1 FG%

'97 Heat - Discussed in earlier threads. 30.2 ppg, 8 rpg, 2.6 apg, 38.6 FG%.

:oldlol:

27, 9, 5 on 50% vs Pistons in 88

30, 6, 7 on 48% vs Pistons in 89

1993 vs Knicks was one of the best series he's ever played. That is, if you actually watched the series instead of checking his stats. He didn't shoot well overall, but he more than made up for it. One of his gutsiest. Didn't shoot particularly well, but he contributed in other ways. Of course, if you only look at the stat sheet, maybe you'll agree with Fatal.

Hadn't watched the 96 Sonics or 97 Heat in a while... I saw the 92 series vs the Cavs and I don't remember that he struggled. Have to check again.

[zabuza666]

Interesting to see Jordan winning every series in the 90s that he was "shut down" or shot poorly in (< 43%). Don't see it with the rest of these guys though. I guess it's because of those darn intangibles!

That's beside the point, feel free to help me add on to the list.

Lol fatal, wanna make your agenda any more apparent?

[Master Templar]

Not really. I was actually just pointing out how Jordan was so great that he could win games through his defense, passing and presence when his shot wasn't falling. This is something clearly he only possessed imo.

Do not deny what thou hast uncovered- the myth that Jordan was indestructible and never struggled, a lie propogated by dark forces aiming to subjugate the populace through the media, thereby making them docile and hiding the truth... which may be too dangerous to divulge here. But look:

The numbers that are holiest in the Masonic order (ie, the Illuminati, the NWO) are 9, 13, and 55.

Michael Jordan= 13 letters
The # he wore (45) whilst coming out of his 'retirement' add up to 9
He scored an overrated 55 points against the Knickerbockers while wearing said jersey#

If thou think this be mere coincidence, I beg of thee, look closer

http://christkeep.com/images/freemasonry/mason_seal.jpg

[Fatal9]

:oldlol:

27, 9, 5 on 50% vs Pistons in 88

30, 6, 7 on 48% vs Pistons in 89

Maybe you should take your own advice on stats here? :confusedshrug:

[poido123]

Fatal 9 still trying to inadvertantly pull down Michael Jordan through a thread which clearly is trolling :lol Have a look at the number of Jordan examples compared to the others, just coincidence perhaps?

[Da_Realist]

Maybe you should take your own advice on stats here? :confusedshrug:

Don't know how you think he was "shut down" when shooting 50% and grabbing 9 boards a game. :oldlol:

Or scoring 30 on 48% which included a unbelievable gamewinner over Rodman in Game 3 :roll:

[zabuza666]

Fatal 9 still trying to inadvertantly pull down Michael Jordan through a thread which clearly is trolling :lol Have a look at the number of Jordan examples compared to the others, just coincidence perhaps?

It's to pull down MJ while at the same time pull up Kobe. Notice how he goes into an explanation for every series BUT Kobe's? Also notice how he includes the whole playoffs for other players but only the finals for Kobe. Finally notice how he even neglects obvious finals series where Kobe has been shut down (e.g. the Pacers).

Fatal9 is a Kobe homer/MJ hater, pure and simple.

[Fatal9]

Don't know how you think he was "shut down" when shooting 50% and grabbing 9 boards a game. :oldlol:

Or scoring 30 on 48% which included a unbelievable gamewinner over Rodman in Game 3 :roll:
I've watched the games and Jordan WAS shut down in those series. I think in '88 he went from routinely taking 30 shots to barely even getting 20 vs. the Pistons (averaged probably like 21-22 shots a game). And then in '89, check out his performances in game 4 and 5, scared to shoot much? 25/5/6 on 39.7% in the other 4 games. This goes beyond statistics. If the point of this thread was just to include poor shooting series, then I'd include '98 finals and other series where he (or other players) shot poorly.

BTW, what do you think was the reason with Bird's shooting in '88? Exhaustion, no?

[Duncan21formvp]

I've watched the games and Jordan WAS shut down in those series. I think in '88 he went from routinely taking 30 shots to barely even getting 20 vs. the Pistons (averaged probably like 21-22 shots a game). And then in '89, check out his performances in game 4 and 5, scared to shoot much? 25/5/6 on 39.7% in the other 4 games. This goes beyond statistics. If the point of this thread was just to include poor shooting series, then I'd include '98 finals and other series where he (or other players) shot poorly.

BTW, what do you think was the reason with Bird's shooting in '88? Exhaustion, no?

Shut down is when someone else in the series plays better than you. That wasn't the case in any of MJ's series.

[juju151111]

I've watched the games and Jordan WAS shut down in those series. I think in '88 he went from routinely taking 30 shots to barely even getting 20 vs. the Pistons (averaged probably like 21-22 shots a game). And then in '89, check out his performances in game 4 and 5, scared to shoot much? 25/5/6 on 39.7% in the other 4 games. This goes beyond statistics. If the point of this thread was just to include poor shooting series, then I'd include '98 finals and other series where he (or other players) shot poorly.

BTW, what do you think was the reason with Bird's shooting in '88? Exhaustion, no?
LOL why are you only using gm 4 and 5 and not the overall numbers?? He showed up in gm 6 through when they loss. LOL I can go find series where Bird and Maigc shot bad. I find it funny how you did the reseach on Mj, but not on the other players playoff series. Your just lucky Basketball reference don't have most of the 80s. Bird choked in alot of playoff series shooting early in his career.

[nnn123]

I've watched the games and Jordan WAS shut down in those series. I think in '88 he went from routinely taking 30 shots to barely even getting 20 vs. the Pistons (averaged probably like 21-22 shots a game). And then in '89, check out his performances in game 4 and 5, scared to shoot much? 25/5/6 on 39.7% in the other 4 games. This goes beyond statistics. If the point of this thread was just to include poor shooting series, then I'd include '98 finals and other series where he (or other players) shot poorly.

BTW, what do you think was the reason with Bird's shooting in '88? Exhaustion, no?


Please fatal I've seen the '89 series too....perhaps he was slowed down a bit, which is expected by the Detroit D, but he wasn't "shut down" at all. Overexaggerating a bit? And he also played very nice defense on Isiah Thomas.

[lbj23clutch]

You should also add this to the list for Kobe.

04 Rockets: 23ppg 42%
04 Kings:26ppg 42%
04 T-Wolves: 24ppg 40%
03 Kings: 24ppg 43%
03 T-Wolves: shot 42%
03 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
02 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
01 sixers: 24ppg 41%
00' blazers: 19ppg 35%

Not gunna include his early years since he came off the bench his first two years...

[ClutchCityReturns]

Hakeem

'90 Lakers, '96 Sonics. Sonics double or triple teamed Hakeem a lot in the series, particularly Payton or McMillain would be the one denying entry passes (big reason why Rockets shot so well from 3). Sonic guards were always around him, slapped the ball out of his hands a lot too (forced him to 16 turnovers in 3 games!). Didn't let him get into the first three games at all (shot just 18-45 in them). Here's how Hakeem put it: "They're determined to get the ball out of my hands," said Olajuwon, who took only nine shots. "So we have to adjust our system. They're coming at me even before the ball is thrown to the low post.

Otherwise known as illegal defense.

[zabuza666]

You should also add this to the list for Kobe.

04 Rockets: 23ppg 42%
04 Kings:26ppg 42%
04 T-Wolves: 24ppg 40%
03 Kings: 24ppg 43%
03 T-Wolves: shot 42%
03 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
02 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
01 sixers: 24ppg 41%
00' blazers: 19ppg 35%

Not gunna include his early years since he came off the bench his first two years...

Now now, that would make Fatal an objective poster. And he doesn't want that do you Fatal?

[Da_Realist]

I've watched the games and Jordan WAS shut down in those series. I think in '88 he went from routinely taking 30 shots to barely even getting 20 vs. the Pistons (averaged probably like 21-22 shots a game). And then in '89, check out his performances in game 4 and 5, scared to shoot much? 25/5/6 on 39.7% in the other 4 games. This goes beyond statistics. If the point of this thread was just to include poor shooting series, then I'd include '98 finals and other series where he (or other players) shot poorly.

BTW, what do you think was the reason with Bird's shooting in '88? Exhaustion, no?

Only Fatal would say someone (no...only Jordan) was "shut down" when he shot 50% from the field. :rolleyes:

What an agenda-driven joke thread :oldlol:

[lbj23clutch]

LMAO at this Fatal/Roundball tool, and you expect people to believe that your an MJ fan?:oldlol: when your obviously a Kobe homer/Mj hater.

BTW MJ did not get "shut down" against the 87 celtics, 88' Pistons, 89' Pistons, or the 92' Cavs so take that **** off dumbass.

[NBASTATMAN]

:oldlol:

27, 9, 5 on 50% vs Pistons in 88

30, 6, 7 on 48% vs Pistons in 89

1993 vs Knicks was one of the best series he's ever played. That is, if you actually watched the series instead of checking his stats. He didn't shoot well overall, but he more than made up for it. One of his gutsiest. Didn't shoot particularly well, but he contributed in other ways. Of course, if you only look at the stat sheet, maybe you'll agree with Fatal.

Hadn't watched the 96 Sonics or 97 Heat in a while... I saw the 92 series vs the Cavs and I don't remember that he struggled. Have to check again.


HE SHOT 44 PERCENT VS THE CAVS.. That is bad for MJ.. Not for the fake stars nowadays... As for this post it is crazy that he actually omits MJ's better games and keeps his bad games.. Then he uses the shooting in those bad games to get a field goal percentage... FATAL did write about mj's ability to pass and defend but you can tell this post is to diminish MJ... If it wasn't he would have posted more of kobe's bad series, more of birds and so on....

[lbj23clutch]

Im waiting Fatal, add these to your list now.

Kobe Bryant getting shutdown in the playoffs:

04 Rockets: 23ppg 42%
04 Kings:26ppg 42%
04 T-Wolves: 24ppg 40%
03 Kings: 24ppg 43%
03 T-Wolves: shot 42%
03 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
02 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
01 sixers: 24ppg 41%
00' blazers: 19ppg 35%

[NBASTATMAN]

You should also add this to the list for Kobe.

04 Rockets: 23ppg 42%
04 Kings:26ppg 42%
04 T-Wolves: 24ppg 40%
03 Kings: 24ppg 43%
03 T-Wolves: shot 42%
03 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
02 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
01 sixers: 24ppg 41%
00' blazers: 19ppg 35%

Not gunna include his early years since he came off the bench his first two years...


OH NO... THE TRUTH ...

[lbj23clutch]

Fatal always dissapears when he gets owned.

[Dave3]

Fatal always dissapears when he gets owned.
And then selectively replies to the few posts he can while ignoring the ones he's been owned in. He NEVER replies to any of the ones that are too smart for him.

[NBASTATMAN]

Fatal always dissapears when he gets owned.


FATAL HAS LOST ALL CRED... I just put him on my ignore list...

[chitownsfinest]

Why does this ****i*g dou*he still make threads when it is clear he is a troll and does this crap to take shots at MJ?

[nnn123]

'89 Pistons - Jordan rules were NOT in effect. Jordan averaged just 25/5/6 on 39.7% shooting outside of game 3 & 6. His lack of aggresiveness, in games 4 and 5 lost the series for the Bulls. It may have been a coaching decision to use him as a decoy though.




I never understand when people do this..."he shot 39% outside of games 3 & 6". You just excluded 33% of the series, how are you gonna do that?????? I mean if we just want to selectively stat-whore, the possibilities are endless.


'09 Lakers vs. Jazz - Kobe shoots a terrible 40.5% outside of game 4, he gets shut down

'09 Lakers vs Rockets - Kobe gets shut down again, shooting 41.2% outside of games 2 and 5



'92 Bulls vs Cavs - Jordan has an amazing series, averaging a deadly 35 PPG w/ 48% shooting outside of games 2 and 6.

[Dave3]

FATAL HAS LOST ALL CRED... I just put him on my ignore list...
It's come to the point where you open the thread and can already predict EXACTLY what's in there. Selective presentation of stats such as
"outside of games 5 and 6, MJ shot 40%!!" (when overall in series he shot like 50)
or rounding up stats of players he likes and leaving the stats of other players as low as possible.
Or being plain biased, such as presenting a series in which a player he dislikes shot less than 43%, while counting only the series when the player he likes shot 40% or worse, ignoring all the series of 40, 41, 42, and 43% (which add up to a lot)

Then he always tops it off with

"I was just thinking/watching/pondering of ___ and this just miraculously came into my head! Isn't this so interesting??:D And guys don't forget, I LOVE MJ!!"

[lbj23clutch]

FATAL HAS LOST ALL CRED... I just put him on my ignore list...
It's funny how many times this Fatal tool gets exposed.

[lbj23clutch]

It's come to the point where you open the thread and can already predict EXACTLY what's in there. Selective presentation of stats such as
"outside of games 5 and 6, MJ shot 40%!!" (when overall in series he shot like 50)
or rounding up stats of players he likes and leaving the stats of other players as low as possible.
Or being plain biased, such as presenting a series in which a player he dislikes shot less than 43%, while counting only the series when the player he likes shot 40% or worse, ignoring all the series of 40, 41, 42, and 43% (which add up to a lot)

Then he always tops it off with

"I was just thinking/watching/pondering of ___ and this just miraculously came into my head! Isn't this so interesting??:D And guys don't forget, I LOVE MJ!!"
Wow, you just pretty much summed up his life in just a paragraph. :lol

[97 bulls]

Fatal 9 still trying to inadvertantly pull down Michael Jordan through a thread which clearly is trolling :lol Have a look at the number of Jordan examples compared to the others, just coincidence perhaps?
lol i noticed that.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I love how there's like 20 series for Jordan and only 1 or two for everyone else. :oldlol: You need to look harder. Kobe, for example, has had waaaay more sub-43% shooting series than the two you listed - I mean, sh*t, he shot 43% or worse for 6 entire postseasons (never mind individual series). Yet all we have are two examples. Sad. :oldlol:

I mean, surely there's no agenda... :oldlol: I also love how he lists the 42% vs. Boston in '87, but neglects to mention that MJ averaged like 37/7/6 that series. Shooting 42% averaging like 20-24 ppg is getting "shut down" -- averaging 37 ppg on 42% isn't quite the same.

[Butters]

You could tell Jordan's list would be the longest and Kobe's would be the shortest before you even clicked the thread....

[poido123]

Where art thou Fatal 9?
I think we really owe him an apology :violin:

[Fatal9]

By shutting down, I don't mean series where the players just had poor shooting nights because their shot was off, but where the defense directly led to the player having poor shooting nights, or significantly lowered production. For example, Jordan shot 42.7% in the '98 finals, but he wasn't shut down in that series by any means. I limited this to the top 10 or so players. Also only really including years each of these guys were the focal point on offense for their teams, so posting a bad series from Kareem's twilight years, or one that Magic had in the early 1980s, or Shaq's production dropping off in the '06 finals when it was Wade's team, isn't what we are looking for.

Please read the OP. Thanks.

[Fatal9]

:oldlol: at the Jordan trolls rolling in yet again. Please post other series where Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem and the rest of these guys were shut down. I'm open to suggestions. As for the number of mentions Jordan got, might be because I followed his career pretty closely (considering he's one of my favorites). Only reason I'd say he has so many series is because he faced tougher defenses than most of these other players and was the #1 guy on his team for what like 12 years? Kobe's mentions would be high but he has really only been the #1 option since about 2004 (only mentioned Pistons series because he played like the main guy in that series).

[zabuza666]

Please read the OP. Thanks.

Your list for kobe is still really short all things considered....Wonder why that is?

[DonDadda59]

Why does this ****i*g dou*he still make threads when it is clear he is a troll and does this crap to take shots at MJ?

What Fatal puts on before siging on to ISH:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4706/fatalw.jpg

He's been bad, he just wants to be punished :roll:

[poido123]

:oldlol: at the Jordan trolls rolling in yet again. Please post other series where Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem and the rest of these guys were shut down. I'm open to suggestions. As for the number of mentions Jordan got, might be because I followed his career pretty closely (considering he's one of my favorites). Only reason I'd say he has so many series is because he faced tougher defenses than most of these other players and was the #1 guy on his team for what like 12 years? Kobe's mentions would be high but he has really only been the #1 option since about 2004 (only mentioned Pistons series because he played like the main guy in that series).

Are you now backpeddling Fatal? The overwhelming majority must have gotten to you...:lol

[poido123]

What Fatal puts on before siging on to ISH:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4706/fatalw.jpg

He's been bad, he just wants to be punished :roll:

:lol :lol
Wow, he's been exposed!
:eek:

[Fatal9]

:oldlol: at Jordan fans yet again coming in and trolling in these threads. This was supposed to be a discussion about these series, memories, specific strategies etc. I was also looking for some input from specific posters on a couple more series I was going to add as there was a lot of judgment calls here. But nope, it's all gotta be about Jordan.

:oldlol: at some of these nitwit posters who think they deserve a response.

[zabuza666]

:oldlol: at Jordan fans yet again coming in and trolling in these threads. This was supposed to be a discussion about these series, memories, specific strategies etc. I was also looking for some input from specific posters on a couple more series I was going to add as there was a lot of judgment calls here. But nope, it's all gotta be about Jordan.

:oldlol: at some of these nitwit posters who think they deserve a response.

You knew exactly what was gonna happen before you made the thread, you're nothing more then a troll.

[poido123]

:tumbleweed :

[chitownsfinest]

At least you finally admitted Kobe is one of your favorites (even though he is really your favorite by a wide margin).

[zabuza666]

I think it's time to retire from this board. No need to waste time with the predictable crowd of idiots here. None of you know sh*t and it really is useless posting here when I look around. LOL at questioning my favorite players in every thread. For the record Jordan, Bird and Pippen actually are my favorite players by a huge margin over anyone else. Roy and Kobe are my current favorites.

PEACE

:hammertime:

At least you came out of the closet before you left :roll: :roll: :roll:

Later dbag.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I think it's time to retire from this board.

The kindred creedence of the wise man prevails yet again.



http://i44.tinypic.com/rh4oew.jpg

[Master Templar]

I doth warne you brother Fatal9, the heretics of this land are too far gone too ingrained into the machine. They cannot see the truth, they cannot accept what you, I, and others already know. Do not give up, spread the word. The sinister ones have already found a replacement for the Jordan drone in Lebron James, it's only a matter of time before the media falsely proclaims him GOAT...

numbers sacred to the Masons/Illuminati- 9, 11, 13, 33, 55

Lebron James= 11 letters
#23= 2 3s= 33

Michael Jordan=13 letters
#23=2 3s= 33
#45=4+5=9
Famously scoredd 55 against the Knicks while wearing #45

These pawns are used to further the goals of creating a new world order, and amassing riches for the corporations that fly under the illumanati flag (NBA, ESPN, Nike, Gatorade,etc). It's all there...

The Eye sees all brethren.

http://www.telemosaic.com/sales/mason/site-eye-book.gif

http://christkeep.com/images/freemasonry/mason_seal.jpg

[DonDadda59]

I think it's time to retire from this board. No need to waste time with the predictable crowd of idiots here. None of you know sh*t and it really is useless posting here when I look around. LOL at questioning my favorite players in every thread. For the record Jordan, Bird and Pippen actually are my favorite players by a huge margin over anyone else. Roy and Kobe are my current favorites.

PEACE

:hammertime:

WOW, honestly I had no idea :eek:

[Abraham Lincoln]

Alas Master Templar, I have discovered that the true mark of a wise man be when he inspires others of his likeness to join in speaking this falsified out of context english portraying a certain being or force on a basketball board. Tis just a shame thou be on the opposite spectrum of the land. My work be done here if not for thy differing creedence from the creedence of the wise man as well as every common man of the land since it's great birth 11 score and 13 years ago. Bryant be not the greatest, but rather the likes of Chamberlain.

[Master Templar]

Alas Master Templar, I have discovered that the true mark of a wise man be when he inspires others of his likeness to join in speaking this falsified out of context english portraying a certain being or force on a basketball board. Tis just a shame thou be on the opposite spectrum of the land. My work be done here if not for thy differing creedence from the creedence of the wise man as well as every common man of the land since it's great birth 11 score and 13 years ago. Bryant be not the greatest, but rather the likes of Chamberlain.

I have embarked on a crusade to spread the Gospel of the one true basketball God- the san graal, the holy blood line. Kobe Bean Bryant, the possessor of infinite basketball prowess is the GOAT, but the infidels who run the machine have worked for decades to conceal this from the public.

Tis not a number, rather the symbol for the divine- infinity

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CSYC3654L._AA280_.jpg

8= http://codem.ro/einstein/Infinity-Symbol.gif

Stern and his hoarde of heretics realized the hidden meaning and hatched a conspiracy to supress, but the holy one outwitted their lot...

24=2x4= 8= infinity

[chitownsfinest]

Looks like Alpha Wolf created his latest troll account. Welcome back dou*he

[Cyclone112]

I think it's time to retire from this board. No need to waste time with the predictable crowd of idiots here. None of you know sh*t and it really is useless posting here when I look around. LOL at questioning my favorite players in every thread. For the record Jordan, Bird and Pippen actually are my favorite players by a huge margin over anyone else. Roy and Kobe are my current favorites.

PEACE

:hammertime:

You know its going to take like 5 posts before we figure out your new account right douche? Unless you stop being a MJ hating Kobe ******ging retard that is.

[lbj23clutch]

I think it's time to retire from this board. No need to waste time with the predictable crowd of idiots here. None of you know sh*t and it really is useless posting here when I look around. LOL at questioning my favorite players in every thread. For the record Jordan, Bird and Pippen actually are my favorite players by a huge margin over anyone else. Roy and Kobe are my current favorites.

PEACE

:hammertime:
Wow i love how he chooses to come out of the closet right when he's running away from ISH. :banana: :hammertime: :banana:

[andgar923]

I can't front ya'll...... Fatal has become my fav poster.
:banana:

[Master Templar]

I can't front ya'll...... Fatal has become my fav poster.
:banana:


Infidel

[lbj23clutch]

Infidel
oh gosh Fatal, your back awfully soon. :lol

[Master Templar]

oh gosh Fatal, your back awfully soon. :lol

Brave Fatal9 I am not, but I am a kindred spirit. He bravely took the challenge to fight valiantly against the ignorance and blindness of the mass public- slaves to the new world order, 'witnesses' if you will.

[juju151111]

Brave Fatal9 I am not, but I am a kindred spirit. He bravely took the challenge to fight valiantly against the ignorance and blindness of the mass public- slaves to the new world order, 'witnesses' if you will.
Wow it didn't take you long Fatal. The funny thing is Bruce gets more respect then you here. He says he would retire and he never came back while u make a BS gimmick.

[TheAnchorman]

Brave Fatal9 I am not, but I am a kindred spirit. He bravely took the challenge to fight valiantly against the ignorance and blindness of the mass public- slaves to the new world order, 'witnesses' if you will.
STFU with that holier-than-thou talk please. Save that sh!t for your gay trysts with other middle-aged conspiracy theory college literature professors.

[poido123]

Just when I thought this thread was dead and buried we see an Alpha Wolf or Fatal 9 sighting??? Maybe we can start from here and guess if this is the elusive Alpha Wolf or the everchanging Fatal 9 in disguise(well trying to be)? :lol

[Master Templar]

STFU with that holier-than-thou talk please. Save that sh!t for your gay trysts with other middle-aged conspiracy theory college literature professors.

While the order of the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Kobe and of the Temple of Solomon has been sullied by false blasphemous allegations of lewd acts such as sodomy and the worship of Lucifer, I assure you we do not engage in such heresy or 'trysts'. The chained mind finds it hard to break free in the face of liberating knowledge I often find, but the truth shall set you free.

http://basketball.exchange.ph/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/aug282007_kobe.jpg

[Cyclone112]

The timing of Master Templar is just too perfect, Fatal9 knows that if he just registered a new account and came on with the same garbage he usually does we would easily figure it out so he decided to change his entire style and become more of a troll changing how he types and everything. I hope he enjoys having to spend all the extra time wording his posts properly to ensure he doesn't give anything away.

Of course this might not be him but he really is such a douche that he will be back one way or another unless he found another forum he can troll.

[TheAnchorman]

While the order of the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Kobe and of the Temple of Solomon has been sullied by false blasphemous allegations of lewd acts such as sodomy and the worship of Lucifer, I assure you we do not engage in such heresy or 'trysts'. The chained mind finds it hard to break free in the face of liberating knowledge I often find, but the truth shall set you free.

http://basketball.exchange.ph/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/aug282007_kobe.jpg
Easily the most fukced up and worst gimmick I've seen in this forum so far. QQ more please. It's entertaining.

*Ignore*

[inclinerator]

While the order of the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Kobe and of the Temple of Solomon has been sullied by false blasphemous allegations of lewd acts such as sodomy and the worship of Lucifer, I assure you we do not engage in such heresy or 'trysts'. The chained mind finds it hard to break free in the face of liberating knowledge I often find, but the truth shall set you free.

http://basketball.exchange.ph/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/aug282007_kobe.jpg
o lawd u have got to be kidding me

[Master Templar]

Easily the most fukced up and worst gimmick I've seen in this forum so far. QQ more please. It's entertaining.

*Ignore*

Tis no gimmick sir, I assure thee. I am simply a servant of the one true basketball God, whose image we poor Knights worship- the Shroud of Lower Merion be the likeness of our lord and savior, fashioned from the imprint left on a game towel he once used in a High School contest. The artifact is kept in a secret location of the temple only the brotherhood are privy to. We cannot risk it falling into the dastardly hands of the illuminati pawn Stern.

[TheAnchorman]

Tis no gimmick sir, I assure thee. I am simply a servant of the one true basketball God, whose image we poor Knights worship- the Shroud of Lower Merion be the likeness of our lord and savior, fashioned from the imprint left on a game towel he once used in a High School contest. The artifact is kept in a secret location of the temple only the brotherhood are privy to. We cannot risk it falling into the dastardly hands of the illuminati pawn Stern.
Um, okay.

[poido123]

While the order of the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Kobe and of the Temple of Solomon has been sullied by false blasphemous allegations of lewd acts such as sodomy and the worship of Lucifer, I assure you we do not engage in such heresy or 'trysts'. The chained mind finds it hard to break free in the face of liberating knowledge I often find, but the truth shall set you free.

http://basketball.exchange.ph/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/aug282007_kobe.jpg

Nice photo Master Templar, this otherside of you Fatal 9 is just downright creepy...Did your mummy not give you plenty of hugs when you were growing up? :eek:

[Master Templar]

Um, okay.

Thy intellect be not abundant enough to grapple mentally with the likes of mine. Tis not a mark of shame, mind you, rather a fact of life.

[Mikaiel]

LeBron

'07 Pistons (look beyond game 5 folks).

All right :

Game 3 : 32 points (12 in the 4th), 9 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, 12-21 FGs. He made a 2 point FG to put the Cavs up by four with 20 seconds remaining.

Game 4 : 25 points (13 in the 4th), 7 rebonds, 11 assists, 3 steals, 8-19 FGs. He put the game out of reach with 2 FTs at the end of the game to put the Cavs up by four.

Game 5 : One of the greatest playoff game ever. He scored the last 25 points for the Cavs, and 29 of the last 30.

Game 6 : 20 points, 14 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 3-11 FGs. Bad FG%, but 20 points on 11 shots is efficient.

Damn, he was so shut down :eek:

[Johnni Gade]

Interesting to see Jordan winning every series in the 90s that he was "shut down" or shot poorly in (< 43%).

Yeah he was one of a kind.

Nice and interesting list though, props.

[Lebron23]

Thy intellect be not abundant enough to grapple mentally with the likes of mine. Tis not a mark of shame, mind you, rather a fact of life.


Clown

[Fatal9]

Quickly watched some highlights of Ehlo shutting down Jordan...

check out 1:23:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsz1GOkw4Q

It was THAT bad. 42.2% after that first game when journalists got on Ehlo and the Cavs (questioning their toughness and pride).

[Jacks3]

Jordan getting shut down by Craig ****ing Ehlo LMAO!!:roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Fatal9 is officially the saddest poster on the board now, supplanting legends like eliteballer and Kobe24.

I love how he says "check out 1:23," like Kobe, who is a turnover machine compared to Jordan, has never lost the ball. :oldlol:

[Fatal9]

Fatal9 is officially the saddest poster on the board now, supplanting legends like eliteballer and Kobe24.
Sad is bumping up my Kareem thread to get a response out of my (which I promptly gave), and then disappearing forever when your claims got shut down. Again, everything I post is unbiased, fact/observation based. I don't see fans of Hakeem, Kareem, Bird (all of whom are my favorite players) coming in here and complaining.

If you think I haven't added enough series for the rest of player, PLEASE go ahead and mention some (again, no need to put in 40 year old Kareem or any players who weren't the #1 options on there team yet). For example I could add Bird in the '85 finals, but it is well documented he had a bad back and elbow in that series. Or Magic in the finals against the Sixers where he shot like 40% but he wasn't "shut down" at all (it wasn't his job to score), as the defense didn't impact his passing ability at all.


I love how he says "check out 1:23," like Kobe, who is a turnover machine compared to Jordan, has never lost the ball. :oldlol:
Just a quick example of the aggresive defense Ehlo played on Jordan after getting called out. I was reading an article corresponding to one of the games actually, and the writer (from new york times no less), was surprised at how hard Ehlo was making Jordan work. It's something you never hear about...I'm just bringing things like this to light. Again, :oldlol: at bringing Kobe yet again into this. We are all aware he is an inferior form of Jordan, what are you arguing here? The only reason Kobe has so few series is because he hasn't been the #1 option long enough.

[97 bulls]

Sad is bumping up my Kareem thread to get a response out of my (which I promptly gave), and then disappearing forever when your claims got shut down. Again, everything I post is unbiased, fact/observation based. I don't see fans of Hakeem, Kareem, Bird (all of whom are my favorite players) coming in here and complaining.

If you think I haven't added enough series for the rest of player, PLEASE go ahead and mention some (again, no need to put in 40 year old Kareem or any players who weren't the #1 options on there team yet). For example I could add Bird in the '85 finals, but it is well documented he had a bad back and elbow in that series. Or Magic in the finals against the Sixers where he shot like 40% but he wasn't "shut down" at all (it wasn't his job to score), as the defense didn't impact his passing ability at all.


Just a quick example of the aggresive defense Ehlo played on Jordan after getting called out. I was reading an article corresponding to one of the games actually, and the writer (from new york times no less), was surprised at how hard Ehlo was making Jordan work. It's something you never hear about...I'm just bringing things like this to light. Again, :oldlol: at bringing Kobe yet again into this. We are all aware he is an inferior form of Jordan, what are you arguing here? The only reason Kobe has so few series is because he hasn't been the #1 option long enough.
so, through all of the so called "unbiased posts" questioning the supremecy of jordan as the greatest player ever what your point? great, ehlo did a great defensive job on jordan. but jordan still won!!!!! stats arent everything bro. and even on nights when jordan wasnt scoring he contibuted in other ways. and the fact is that unlike every other great player. when he had a competant team he won. he never lost bro. you cant say that about any other superstar athlete in any other sport. not kareem, magic, kobe, shaq, duncan, wilt, russel, malone, stockton, wilkins, duncan, bird, etc. the list goes on and on. all have lost to teams they shoulve beat.

[OldSchoolBBall]

For example I could add Bird in the '85 finals, but it is well documented he had a bad back and elbow in that series. Or Magic in the finals against the Sixers where he shot like 40% but he wasn't "shut down" at all (it wasn't his job to score), as the defense didn't impact his passing ability at all.

If Jordan had either of those series, they would be on your list. Fact. Funny how Bird's bad elbow is "documented," and thus the series is excluded, but Jordan's severely sprained wrist in the '93 playoffs somehow doesn't qualify. What a joke. :oldlol:

[Fatal9]

If Jordan had either of those series, they would be on your list. Fact. Funny how Bird's bad elbow is "documented," and thus the series is excluded, but Jordan's severely sprained wrist in the '93 playoffs somehow doesn't qualify. What a joke. :oldlol:
Yea, sorry I don't buy it. You don't average 41 ppg in the finals if the wrist bothered him that much (or drop 50 points on the best defense in the league). I've seen both series, and you can actually see Bird's shooting form change (he still shot 45% though), and him being less willing to post up (probably due to his back). Regardless, all the series I posted for Jordan should remain in my judgement, with exception to perhaps the Celtics one as you pointed out.

BTW, What about the Kareem thread? Want to show me how prime Jordan "statistically" compares to him? :oldlol:

[raptorfan_dr07]

And the Raptors were your new "favorite" team, right?

Wait, what?? If that's true, please don't associate him with us. I've never seen him in the Raptor forum.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yea, sorry I don't buy it. You don't average 41 ppg in the finals if the wrist bothered him that much (or drop 50 points on the best defense in the league). I've seen both series, and you can actually see Bird's shooting form change (he still shot 45% though), and him being less willing to post up (probably due to his back). Regardless, all the series I posted for Jordan should remain in my judgement, with exception to perhaps the Celtics one as you pointed out.

BTW, What about the Kareem thread? Want to show me how prime Jordan "statistically" compares to him? :oldlol:

Have you looked at their PER, Win Shares, Wins Produced etc.? Basically anything that will normalize for pace and league averages?

[juju151111]

Yea, sorry I don't buy it. You don't average 41 ppg in the finals if the wrist bothered him that much (or drop 50 points on the best defense in the league). I've seen both series, and you can actually see Bird's shooting form change (he still shot 45% though), and him being less willing to post up (probably due to his back). Regardless, all the series I posted for Jordan should remain in my judgement, with exception to perhaps the Celtics one as you pointed out.

BTW, What about the Kareem thread? Want to show me how prime Jordan "statistically" compares to him? :oldlol:
LOL because MJ could fight through injuies you tard. Also why don't you post bird 82 and 83 season where he shot 42%??? You so freaking lucky basketball reference doesn't go below 87. Anyways dumbass MJ was clearly bothered by the injury idiot. MJ was shooting airballs and MJ drop 50 because he is MJ and knew his team needed a win or they would be down 3-1. MJ plays through alot of injuies and drop 30+ 40+ 50+ points. He played most of the 98 season with a ****ed up hand. Here is some examples of MJ playing on injuies.
98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSjCFrLy_I4 44 points vs the knicks.
93 sore foot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUzCJw_RKs 38 points vs sonics.
93 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3tHMaXd5Zg LOL torn arch in left foot. lol Ialso guess Isiah thomas wasn't injuied in that famous gm either since he erop 40+?? Ownnned again come again
:hammertime:

[Dave3]

All right :

Game 3 : 32 points (12 in the 4th), 9 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, 12-21 FGs. He made a 2 point FG to put the Cavs up by four with 20 seconds remaining.

Game 4 : 25 points (13 in the 4th), 7 rebonds, 11 assists, 3 steals, 8-19 FGs. He put the game out of reach with 2 FTs at the end of the game to put the Cavs up by four.

Game 5 : One of the greatest playoff game ever. He scored the last 25 points for the Cavs, and 29 of the last 30.

Game 6 : 20 points, 14 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 3-11 FGs. Bad FG%, but 20 points on 11 shots is efficient.

Damn, he was so shut down :eek:
Don't bother, he never replies to any good points. Just nod your head and agree that Kobe is the greatest and would never have a series shooting as bad as that Jordan did when he shot 43% (Ahem, NBA Finals when he won MVP). Also, regardless of any other stats, as long as you shoot below 43% you were shut down, NO MATTER WHAT according to his criteria.

[Fatal9]

Have you looked at their PER, Win Shares, Wins Produced etc.? Basically anything that will normalize for pace and league averages?
PER penalizes player for pace way too hard. I think it almost adjusts every statistic equally (maybe even linearly) to pace, which as you've pointed out before is incorrect (plus Kareem doesn't have the benefit of getting blocks and steals added, which in centers makes a difference, but in guards because of their high TOs, not so much). As for win shares and wins produced, I'm convinced no one who actually watches basketball has any use for those statistics. Assigning fractions of a win is about as far as you can go with stat whoring, and they really don't belong in any legitimate basketball discussion.

[juju151111]

PER penalizes player for pace way too hard. I think it almost adjusts every statistic equally (maybe even linearly) to pace, which as you've pointed out before is incorrect (plus Kareem doesn't have the benefit of getting blocks and steals added, which in centers makes a difference, but in guards because of their high TOs, not so much). As for win shares and wins produced, I'm convinced no one who actually watches basketball has any use for those statistics. Assigning fractions of a win is about as far as you can go with stat whoring, and they really don't belong in any legitimate basketball discussion.
Why did you skip my post and mikaiel??? o wait i alreeady know why. The same reason you ignore DONS posts right *****?

[Fatal9]

:oldlol: at this second (actually closer to third or fourth) rate poster like jubjub expecting a reply. Dude, I already know all I need to know with that "why is Kareem better than Magic" thread. Not worth my time, so quit following me around thread to thread. You are clearly no older than 15 and half the time I can't even understand what the hell you are even saying.

[poido123]

:oldlol: at this second (actually closer to third or fourth) rate poster like jubjub expecting a reply. Dude, I already know all I need to know with that "why is Kareem better than Magic" thread. Not worth my time, so quit following me around thread to thread. You are clearly no older than 15 and half the time I can't even understand what the hell you are even saying.

I thought you were banned? You and Alpha Wolf should be gone, you both contribute zero input...

[juju151111]

:oldlol: at this second (actually closer to third or fourth) rate poster like jubjub expecting a reply. Dude, I already know all I need to know with that "why is Kareem better than Magic" thread. Not worth my time, so quit following me around thread to thread. You are clearly no older than 15 and half the time I can't even understand what the hell you are even saying.
Ohh so why did you ignore my posts before i even posted that thread? Why did you run from multiple threads being owned by Don,Oldskool,me, etc.... before that thread was even made. hmmmm The last time you quoted one of my post i made you look like a fuking retard so i don't blame you man. I will leave you to Don. LOL Pls since you are the superior debater prove to me how Kareem is 10x better then Magic.

[zabuza666]

Fatal weren't you leaving? Honestly I'm getting sick of watching you get shown up for your agenda time and time again

[Fatal9]

Just nod your head and agree that Kobe is the greatest and would never have a series shooting as bad as that Jordan did when he shot 43% (Ahem, NBA Finals when he won MVP).
Is that why I don't have Jordan in the '98 finals there? Or the '85 series vs. Bucks? or why I removed the Celtics in '87 series? Or Magic in the finals vs. Sixers? Or Bird vs. Bucks in '83? The criteria is defined clearly. This is based on watching the games of each one of these series (except Kareem vs. Warriors). Numbers are just the icing.

[juju151111]

Is that why I don't have Jordan in the '98 finals there? Or the '85 series vs. Bucks? or why I removed the Celtics in '87 series? Or Magic in the finals vs. Sixers? Or Bird vs. Bucks in '83? The criteria is defined clearly. This is based on watching the games of each one of these series (except Kareem vs. Warriors). Numbers are just the icing.
Why do you only have one bad Kobe series then when he has so many. Bird also shot 43% in 82 too.

[Dave3]

Is that why I don't have Jordan in the '98 finals there? Or the '85 series vs. Bucks? or why I removed the Celtics in '87 series? Or Magic in the finals vs. Sixers? Or Bird vs. Bucks in '83? The criteria is defined clearly. This is based on watching the games of each one of these series (except Kareem vs. Warriors). Numbers are just the icing.
Yeah, and yet you mentioned all 3 of those Jordan ones. The '85 Bucks you said you'll give him a break since he was a rookie, but it was still there. The '98 finals you mentioned but said he was just shooting bad.
And the Celtics in '87 you originally had, so obviously you're changing the criteria or w/e you want for your convenience.
Also, to be able to watch a series in 1985 with enough intelligence and analysis to remember if it was a player being shut down or a player just missing shots, that would make you at least 11 or 12 at the time. This then makes you like 36 years old right now, unless you watched all of these series on your own time from replays and such.

[Fatal9]

Yeah, and yet you mentioned all 3 of those Jordan ones. The '85 Bucks you said you'll give him a break since he was a rookie, but it was still there. The '98 finals you mentioned but said he was just shooting bad.
And the Celtics in '87 you originally had, so obviously you're changing the criteria or w/e you want for your convenience.

I gave those as examples (just like I gave the Magic and Bird series as examples too) but didn't include them so :confusedshrug:

Also, to be able to watch a series in 1985 with enough intelligence and analysis to remember if it was a player being shut down or a player just missing shots, that would make you at least 11 or 12 at the time. This then makes you like 36 years old right now, unless you watched all of these series on your own time from replays and such.
Yes, because footage from every game pre-2000 was burned out of existence :oldlol:

[Dave3]

Yes, because footage from every game pre-2000 was burned out of existence :oldlol:
Hence "unless you watched them on replays" genius.

[AirJordan23]

Why do you only have one bad Kobe series then when he has so many. Bird also shot 43% in 82 too.
It fits his agenda, obviously. What's pathetic is the fact that Kobe has a lot more of the series where he got "shut down" as the 2nd option compared to being the first option. Yup, that's right. Shaq had all the defensive attention and teams made their defensive schemes to limit Shaq. KB wasn't the focal point of the offense YET HE FAILED TO PUT UP GREAT OR EFFICIENT NUMBERS. 37% FG shooting against the 13th ranked defense of the Pacers guarded by Mark Jackson and Miller (provided he got injured in game 2 or 3), 41% shooting against the 76ers in 2001. And we all know about his brilliant performance against the Pistons in '04 throwing up enough bricks to build a house. Want more? Look at some of the series of LA/SAS where Bowen gained the rep of being the "Kobe stopper." :oldlol: But, hey Kobe wasn't in his prime or was facing a great defensive team. :oldlol:

This obviously won't be on Fatal's list since that doesn't fit his criteria or agenda.

[chitownsfinest]

I have constantly mentioned this in many of Fatal's threads and he is yet to respond to it: (probably won't respond now since he has me on ignore)
If Kobe was the second option, why was he still jacking as many shots as Shaq? He was playing like he was the first option, so his numbers should not be ignored from that period, even if they were poor.
Kobes fga per game (2000-2004): 20.34
Shaq's fga per game (Same period): 18.16

[lbj23clutch]

Oh Fatal, still waiting for you to add this list to Kobe's.



Kobe Bryant getting shutdown in the playoffs:

04 Rockets: 23ppg 42%
04 Kings:26ppg 42%
04 T-Wolves: 24ppg 40%
03 Kings: 24ppg 43%
03 T-Wolves: shot 42%
03 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
02 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
01 sixers: 24ppg 41%
00' blazers: 19ppg 35%

and LMAO @ MJ getting twice as many series getting "shut down" as the rest of the guys. While you ignore the other series I listed here to Kobe's list of getting shut down in the playoffs.

[branslowski]

Great Thread...Great post by Fatal9, roundball, and Loki...A good debate is the sh!t...

So, Dondadda reveals he's that Master Templar guy....Still waiting for him to admit he's the Abe gimmick...Oh snap! Did I say that out loud?

[Fatal9]

Oh Fatal, still waiting for you to add this list to Kobe's.



Kobe Bryant getting shutdown in the playoffs:

04 Rockets: 23ppg 42%
04 Kings:26ppg 42%
04 T-Wolves: 24ppg 40%
03 Kings: 24ppg 43%
03 T-Wolves: shot 42%
03 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
02 Blazers: 26ppg 38%
01 sixers: 24ppg 41%
00' blazers: 19ppg 35%

and LMAO @ MJ getting twice as many series getting "shut down" as the rest of the guys. While you ignore the other series I listed here to Kobe's list of getting shut down in the playoffs.
I actually don't mind adding those. A couple of them I would say he got shut down in (remember bad FG% does not = shut down, or we'd be adding more Magic, Bird, MJ series), but I kept it to when players were really only the #1 options on their teams (ie. Kareem in his twilight years wouldnt be included). The only reason Kobe has 2 series is because he hasn't really been the #1 guy for that long (I added '04 series because Prince embarrassed him so bad I had to put it).

[Roundball_Rock]

So, Dondadda reveals he's that Master Templar guy....Still waiting for him to admit he's the Abe gimmick...Oh snap! Did I say that out loud?

Ah, great minds think alike! I am glad someone else has figured that out. :pimp: That was one reason why it was see easy to see "Master Templar" was him.

[lbj23clutch]

I actually don't mind adding those. A couple of them I would say he got shut down in (remember bad FG% does not = shut down, or we'd be adding more Magic, Bird, MJ series), but I kept it to when players were really only the #1 options on their teams (ie. Kareem in his twilight years wouldnt be included). The only reason Kobe has 2 series is because he hasn't really been the #1 guy for that long (I added '04 series because Prince embarrassed him so bad I had to put it).
I have a problem with you listing MJ getting "shut down" against the Pistons in 88' and 89'. When MJ averaged 27/9/5 on 50% vs Pistons in 88 and
30/6/7 on 48% vs Pistons in 89.

[Fatal9]

I have a problem with you listing MJ getting "shut down" against the Pistons in 88' and 89'. When MJ averaged 27/9/5 on 50% vs Pistons in 88 and
30/6/7 on 48% vs Pistons in 89.
Already addressed this earlier in the thread, and earlier in various other threads. Watch the games maybe :confusedshrug:

[lbj23clutch]

Already addressed this earlier in the thread, and earlier in various other threads. Watch the games maybe :confusedshrug:
Or taking off your #24 purple and gold homer shades off for once might help? :lol

[juju151111]

Or taking off your #24 purple and gold homer shades off for once might help? :lol
lol

[DonDadda59]

Great Thread...Great post by Fatal9, roundball, and Loki...A good debate is the sh!t...

So, Dondadda reveals he's that Master Templar guy....Still waiting for him to admit he's the Abe gimmick...Oh snap! Did I say that out loud?


Ah, great minds think alike! I am glad someone else has figured that out. :pimp: That was one reason why it was see easy to see "Master Templar" was him.

Uh, no offense but your detective skills need work :oldlol:

The Templar gimmick was my first ever, and like I said, most likely the last. And all respect to honest Abe but if I make another gimmick, it'll be legendary (as you've all already seen).

You kids aren't on my level, your hands are too short to box with God. :violin:

[Roundball_Rock]

:roll: This guy finally responds to the Abe/Don post five days later--conveniently on the day the Abe gimmick was apparently killed.


You kids aren't on my level, your hands are too short to box with God.

:roll:

[DonDadda59]

:roll: This guy finally responds to the Abe/Don post five days later--conveniently on the day the Abe gimmick was apparently killed.


Didn't even know he was 'killed'. How did he go?

[Roundball_Rock]

Didn't even know he was 'killed'. How did he go?

You seem very upset and bitter over Abe's "retirement." I wonder why? :oldlol:

[batman14]

:roll: This guy finally responds to the Abe/Don post five days later--conveniently on the day the Abe gimmick was apparently killed.



:roll:
I am the one who bumbed the thread. (juju151111=me)

[DonDadda59]

You seem very upset and bitter over Abe's "retirement." I wonder why? :oldlol:

What are you an internet psychologist? How did you get 'upset' and 'bitter' from my post?

And you didn't answer my question, how can an internet forum account be 'killed'? Was he banned?

[Roundball_Rock]

And you didn't answer my question, how can an internet forum account be 'killed'?

"Someone" apparently decided the gimmick had run its course and "retired" it.

[DonDadda59]

"Someone" apparently decided the gimmick had run its course and "retired" it.

Ok, and if it was mine I would own up to it (like I did with my one and only gimmick), not exactly like it's life and death and people are 'killed'. Good luck finding the culprit though, I'm sure you're up to the task.

[branslowski]

Ok, and if it was mine I would own up to it (like I did with my one and only gimmick), not exactly like it's life and death and people are 'killed'. Good luck finding the culprit though, I'm sure you're up to the task.

:rolleyes:

[Roundball_Rock]

Ok, and if it was mine I would own up to it (like I did with my one and only gimmick), not exactly like it's life and death and people are 'killed'. Good luck finding the culprit though, I'm sure you're up to the task.

:oldlol: The mix of condescension, arrogance, acerbic wit, and sarcasm that was found only among two MJ fans here: you and Abe. Maybe you were not Abe but of the MJ stans who post here you were definitely the most likely candidate to be him. Perhaps it was someone who posted only under that gimmick and had no legit account. Oh well. Who cares at this point? Abe Lincoln is apparently gone. Now he belongs to the ages.

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol: The mix of condescension, arrogance, acerbic wit, and sarcasm that was found only among two MJ fans here: you and Abe. Maybe you were not Abe but of the MJ stans who post here you were definitely the most likely candidate to be him. Perhaps it was someone who posted only under that gimmick and had no legit account. Oh well. Who cares at this point? Abe Lincoln is apparently gone. Now he belongs to the ages.

I could've sworn Abe was around longer than I've been posting on ISh. So if we're one and the same, that means I'm the gimmick :eek:

That's a mind f*ck for your conspiracy theory, no? A conundrum for you to unravel Sherlock :oldlol:

http://hrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/moronesj/google%20earth%20tutuorial/google.tutorial_files/slide0001_image002.jpg

:cheers: to Honest Abe if he was really murdered.

[Roundball_Rock]

I could've sworn Abe was around longer than I've been posting on ISh. So if we're one and the same, that means I'm the gimmick

No, you guys started posting within two weeks of each other. :D You joined on 1/13, Abe joined on 1/24.

[DonDadda59]

No, you guys started posting within two weeks of each other. :D You joined on 1/13, Abe joined on 1/24.

:eek:

The Plot thickens.

[Roundball_Rock]

Surely it was just a mere coincidence. ; )

[Master Templar]

Surely it was just a mere coincidence. ; )

Tis no coincidence brethren. The heretic DonDadda joined the 13th. His alter ego became a member of this sacrilege spewing board 1/24/09.

1X24+9=33

Likewise, 1/24> 24-1=23

Abraham Lincoln was a known Mason sympathizer.

Now I ask you, be it mere coincidence in thy mind?

[juju151111]

lol wow

[iggy>]

fatal is a joke :roll: 30 ppg while shooting 50%=getting shut down. :roll:

[steeph28]

Tis no coincidence brethren. The heretic DonDadda joined the 13th. His alter ego became a member of this sacrilege spewing board 1/24/09.

1X24+9=33

Likewise, 1/24> 24-1=23

Abraham Lincoln was a known Mason sympathizer.

Now I ask you, be it mere coincidence in thy mind?

What happened to this guy?

[Dave3]

What happened to this guy?
Assassin's Creed II came out.

[Roundball_Rock]

Thanks for bumping this up, juju! I thought St. Michael never had bad games, especially when in the playoffs. I forgot about:

Jordan
You could start off with the '85 Bucks but Jordan was just in his rookie year so no need to include it.

'88 Pistons - Jordan Rules in effect. MJ averages just 27 ppg, which doesn't sound too bad but put it in context. Jordan would average 35+ ppg in the regular season prior to this series, he would usually need to score 30 just to keep the Bulls in the games, however, Pistons defense reduced his shot attempts significantly in the series. Not your traditional method of shutting down a player, but it worked as Bulls would get stomped in 5 games.

'89 Pistons - Jordan rules were NOT in effect. Jordan averaged just 25/5/6 on 39.7% shooting outside of game 3 & 6. His lack of aggresiveness, in games 4 and 5 lost the series for the Bulls. It may have been a coaching decision to use him as a decoy though.

'92 Cavs - Ironically, it was Crag Ehlo who played man to man defense and shut down Jordan, almost entirely on his own! After game 1, there was a lot of criticism of the Cavs, as they had writers calling them soft, creampuffs etc. This seemed to have inspired Ehlo for the rest of the series as he held Jordan to just 42.2% shooting after that game. Played him more physical than I've ever seen him play him and there were numerous times where he flat out snatched the ball from him (thereby forcing him into some very high turnover games (had 16 turnovers in a span of 3 games in fact). Even when Jordan scored, he had to sweat for each point. It's hard to believe when you consider their history prior to this series, but Ehlo shut down Mike in his prime! For some reason, you hear little about this, probably because Bulls won (which you expect no matter how poorly he shoots, Bulls were the better team).

'93 Knicks - We all know what happened here so I'll include just the statistics: 32.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 7 apg, 40.0 FG% (excluding game 3, he was just 27.8 ppg on 35.2 FG%)

'96 Sonics - Excellent post defense and cut any penetration to the lane. 27.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.2 apg, 41.1 FG%

'97 Heat - Discussed in earlier threads. 30.2 ppg, 8 rpg, 2.6 apg, 38.6 FG%.

:eek:

[OldSchoolBBall]

You forgot to log into your Fatal9 account. That post is verbatim from a fatal9 post some months ago.

[BallersTalk]

You forgot to log into your Fatal9 account. That post is verbatim from a fatal9 post some months ago.
Lol exposed.

[juju151111]

Thanks for bumping this up, juju! I thought St. Michael never had bad games, especially when in the playoffs. I forgot about:

Jordan
You could start off with the '85 Bucks but Jordan was just in his rookie year so no need to include it.

'88 Pistons - Jordan Rules in effect. MJ averages just 27 ppg, which doesn't sound too bad but put it in context. Jordan would average 35+ ppg in the regular season prior to this series, he would usually need to score 30 just to keep the Bulls in the games, however, Pistons defense reduced his shot attempts significantly in the series. Not your traditional method of shutting down a player, but it worked as Bulls would get stomped in 5 games.

'89 Pistons - Jordan rules were NOT in effect. Jordan averaged just 25/5/6 on 39.7% shooting outside of game 3 & 6. His lack of aggresiveness, in games 4 and 5 lost the series for the Bulls. It may have been a coaching decision to use him as a decoy though.

'92 Cavs - Ironically, it was Crag Ehlo who played man to man defense and shut down Jordan, almost entirely on his own! After game 1, there was a lot of criticism of the Cavs, as they had writers calling them soft, creampuffs etc. This seemed to have inspired Ehlo for the rest of the series as he held Jordan to just 42.2% shooting after that game. Played him more physical than I've ever seen him play him and there were numerous times where he flat out snatched the ball from him (thereby forcing him into some very high turnover games (had 16 turnovers in a span of 3 games in fact). Even when Jordan scored, he had to sweat for each point. It's hard to believe when you consider their history prior to this series, but Ehlo shut down Mike in his prime! For some reason, you hear little about this, probably because Bulls won (which you expect no matter how poorly he shoots, Bulls were the better team).

'93 Knicks - We all know what happened here so I'll include just the statistics: 32.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 7 apg, 40.0 FG% (excluding game 3, he was just 27.8 ppg on 35.2 FG%)

'96 Sonics - Excellent post defense and cut any penetration to the lane. 27.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.2 apg, 41.1 FG%

'97 Heat - Discussed in earlier threads. 30.2 ppg, 8 rpg, 2.6 apg, 38.6 FG%.

:eek:
Who said Mj didn't have bad games? Round are u on crack or something. I guess it finally happened. It took Fatal 2 years to admit he hates Mj and loves kobe. It seems you will break and say u hate him in a month or two. I hope i will be their to :lol my ass off.

[Jacks3]

Fatal getting all the jordan stans riled up. :roll:

[KingLeBronJames]

LeBron > Michael

[Fatal9]

You forgot to log into your Fatal9 account. That post is verbatim from a fatal9 post some months ago.
He was quoting me and bolding the "shocking parts". Really got me there :rolleyes:

[Roundball_Rock]

You forgot to log into your Fatal9 account. That post is verbatim from a fatal9 post some months ago.

Yeah--it is called the OP. :oldlol:


LeBron > Michael

Lebron took scrubs to the NBA finals and won 66 games with a weak team. MJ could never do that so one could say Lebron is on pace to overtake MJ.

[juju151111]

Yeah--it is called the OP. :oldlol:



Lebron took scrubs to the NBA finals and won 66 games with a weak team. MJ could never do that so one could say Lebron is on pace to overtake MJ.
LOL LJ>> is better then MJ.
Bookmark will bring up this thread come playoff time.
Things Fatal and roundball has said(mostly Fatal)
"MJ is lucky"
"90s is weak era"
"80s/90s players don't have the IQ of todays players"
"KAJ is better then MJ in the nba":lol
"08 Celtics will shut down Mj becuase they shut down Kobe"
"MJ never faced Zone"
" MJ played against Midgets"
The most laughable one yet. "Pip is equal to MJ in 2nd threepeat:roll: :lol :lol :banana:

[Roundball_Rock]

Please designate who made the specific statement. Do you want me to keep track of every MJ stan quote, mash them together and attribute them to you?

KAJ>MJ. Man, that is a controversial statement. :rolleyes:

I said MJ/Pip were 1a/1b during the second three peat. Your buddy Abe Lincoln also said that (as did Sports Illustrated). 1a/1b doesn't mean "equal". It means "close". You know, like Kareem was better than Magic but Magic was close until Magic eclipsed him in the late 80's.

[Samurai Swoosh]

LOL LJ>> is better then MJ.
Bookmark will bring up this thread come playoff time.
Things Fatal and roundball has said(mostly Fatal)
"MJ is lucky"
"90s is weak era"
"80s/90s players don't have the IQ of todays players"
"KAJ is better then MJ in the nba":lol
"08 Celtics will shut down Mj becuase they shut down Kobe"
"MJ never faced Zone"
" MJ played against Midgets"
The most laughable one yet. "Pip is equal to MJ in 2nd threepeat:roll: :lol :lol :banana:
I used to talk to KB42PAH on AIM ... and this was like his go to quote. I've never heard anyone else ever say it either. And he used to say it with such regularity, that when it popped up on here ... I instantly knew this was his account. Or at the very least a close friend of his or something. Someone biting his arguments / style.

[branslowski]

Please designate who made the specific statement. Do you want me to keep track of every MJ stan quote, mash them together and attribute them to you?

KAJ>MJ. Man, that is a controversial statement. :rolleyes:

I said MJ/Pip were 1a/1b during the second three peat. Your buddy Abe Lincoln also said that (as did Sports Illustrated). 1a/1b doesn't mean "equal". It means "close". You know, like Kareem was better than Magic but Magic was close until Magic eclipsed him in the late 80's.

:oldlol: The funny thing is, ppl wont be able to comprehend this post either...Then they will just revert to their bailout slang..."That post is stupid you troll, your trying to diminish MJ"...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You gotta love ISH...

[juju151111]

Please designate who made the specific statement. Do you want me to keep track of every MJ stan quote, mash them together and attribute them to you?

KAJ>MJ. Man, that is a controversial statement. :rolleyes:

I said MJ/Pip were 1a/1b during the second three peat. Your buddy Abe Lincoln also said that (as did Sports Illustrated). 1a/1b doesn't mean "equal". It means "close". You know, like Kareem was better than Magic but Magic was close until Magic eclipsed him in the late 80's.
Pip never was close. Every year Mj had on a Bulls jersey Mj>>>>PIP.
hey Since he won't respond to me. Can you tell me how your "Top IQ ISH member" Fatal said Pip guarded Magic more?? Isn't that just watching a DVD and going off wat they said about 1 gm??? How could he say something like this. Why not do the reseach??

[Fatal9]

Can't get over how great and clutch Pippen was in '93 vs. Knicks...might rewatch it soon. Jordan needed a miracle to win that series, with the way he was playing, and Pippen provided it.

[juju151111]

Can't get over how great and clutch Pippen was in '93 vs. Knicks...might rewatch it soon. Jordan needed a miracle to win that series, with the way he was playing, and Pippen provided it.
Miracle??? He started passing out of the triple teams in gm3?? How is that a miracle??? Down 2-1 in gm 4 he then took over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd_AuUmAxTA&feature=related
In game 5 a triple double and some of the best defense he has ever played. Miracle??? Do you even know the meaning of that word?

[Duncan21formvp]

Yeah--it is called the OP. :oldlol:



Lebron took scrubs to the NBA finals and won 66 games with a weak team. MJ could never do that so one could say Lebron is on pace to overtake MJ.

Except Lebron had an allstar in Mo Williams.


Jordan actually won 2 titles with scrubs as he didn't even have an allstar on the team in 1991 nor 1998.

[Duncan21formvp]

Can't get over how great and clutch Pippen was in '93 vs. Knicks...might rewatch it soon. Jordan needed a miracle to win that series, with the way he was playing, and Pippen provided it.

Name me a player in the league now that has actually scored 54 points in a playoff game?

Yeah!!!

Oh and he scored 17 in a row in game 5 on the road against a 60 win team.

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: The funny thing is, ppl wont be able to comprehend this post either...Then they will just revert to their bailout slang..."That post is stupid you troll, your trying to diminish MJ"...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You gotta love ISH...

Yup. :D

juju, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED said Pippen was as valuable as MJ and called him the second-best player even in 97'. That means the same held true in 96' since Pippen was better then than in 97'. Was SI part of a vast Kobe conspiracy???? How can the best player and the second-best player in the league not be 1a/1b? Or even the best and the fourth-best. If Chris Paul is traded to Cleveland tomorrow does that mean he is the "#2" or 1b?

It is ironic how MJ fans throughout the Kareem thread have said Kareem/Magic were "1a/1b" yet fail to apply that logic to Jordan and prime Pippen...

I don't know what he thinks nor do I remember what he said months ago. Who cares what he said?


Can't get over how great and clutch Pippen was in '93 vs. Knicks...might rewatch it soon. Jordan needed a miracle to win that series, with the way he was playing, and Pippen provided it.

Yup, they--especially juju--keep citing Game 7 of the 90' ECF when Pippen played with a migraine (partly because of MJ's bullying...) and only days after his father had died but never mention the dynasty at risk, down 0-2 in the ECF against the #1 seed, MJ shooting 17% with all the chips down but Pippen saving the day with 83%. It is no wonder Sports Illustrated called Pippen the MVP of that series.


Except Lebron had an allstar in Mo Williams.


Jordan actually won 2 titles with scrubs as he didn't even have an allstar on the team in 1991 nor 1998

:roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Except Lebron had an allstar in Mo Williams.


Jordan actually won 2 titles with scrubs as he didn't even have an allstar on the team in 1991 nor 1998.
Come on now ... this I have to disagree with ...

Pippen wasn't an all star in '98 cause he was hurt for half the season. He was still an elite player. He was also all star caliber player in 1991 (the first year he truly was a star caliber player) ...

And Mo Williams was a one and done fluke of an All Star. We've seen them every few years someone will have a hot half of a season and get named to it without being a true perrenial all star talent.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Come on now ... this I have to disagree with ...

Pippen wasn't an all star in '98 cause he was hurt for half the season. He was still an elite player. He was also all star caliber player in 1991 (the first year he truly was a star caliber player) ...

And Mo Williams was a one and done fluke of an All Star. We've seen them every few years someone will have a hot half of a season and get named to it without being a true perrenial all star talent.
True, but a stupid post deserved an even dumber reponse.

[Samurai Swoosh]

True, but a stupid post deserved an even dumber reponse.
My post was stupid?

[juju151111]

Yup. :D

juju, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED said Pippen was as valuable as MJ and called him the second-best player even in 97'. That means the same held true in 96' since Pippen was better then than in 97'. Was SI part of a vast Kobe conspiracy???? How can the best player and the second-best player in the league not be 1a/1b? Or even the best and the fourth-best. If Chris Paul is traded to Cleveland tomorrow does that mean he is the "#2" or 1b?

It is ironic how MJ fans throughout the Kareem thread have said Kareem/Magic were "1a/1b" yet fail to apply that logic to Jordan and prime Pippen...

I don't know what he thinks nor do I remember what he said months ago. Who cares what he said?



Yup, they--especially juju--keep citing Game 7 of the 90' ECF when Pippen played with a migraine (partly because of MJ's bullying...) and only days after his father had died but never mention the dynasty at risk, down 0-2 in the ECF against the #1 seed, MJ shooting 17% with all the chips down but Pippen saving the day with 83%. It is no wonder Sports Illustrated called Pippen the MVP of that series.



:roll:
SI was were simple. Pip isn't on Mj level at all. The gap between Mj is way further then Magic(Giat PG top5 player) to Kareem(Goat center top3 player).PIP(Top 25)LOL It wasn't1a or 1b becuase He wasn't near Mj level at all.

[Abraham Lincoln]

My post was stupid?
No the Kobe fan (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3704918&postcount=139) declaring LeBron on pace to pass Jordan due to getting swept in the Finals, which was followed by the Jordan fan (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3705116&postcount=147) posting an equally moronic response.

[Roundball_Rock]

SI isn't credible? When people write history they look at what leading newspapers and magazines of the time say. SI is the premier sports magazine so its authority in the realm of sports is comparable to Time magazine's in politics.

If Chris Paul is traded to Cleveland tomorrow does he become #2 or 1b to Lebron?


No the Kobe fan declaring LeBron on pace to pass Jordan due to getting swept in the Finals, which was followed by the Jordan fan posting an equally moronic response.

Reported.

[juju151111]

SI isn't credible? When people write history they look at what leading newspapers and magazines of the time say. SI is the premier sports magazine so its authority in the realm of sports is comparable to Time magazine's in politics.

If Chris Paul is traded to Cleveland tomorrow does he become #2 or 1b to Lebron?



Reported.
Still doesn't make sense.

[Roundball_Rock]

If Chris Paul is traded to Cleveland tomorrow does he become #2 or 1b to Lebron? Post a thread asking that and see what the responses are.

[juju151111]

If Chris Paul is traded to Cleveland tomorrow does he become #2 or 1b to Lebron? Post a thread asking that and see what the responses are.
It would be 1a and 1b becuase it's close or equal. Mj and Pip wasn't close thats the damn point ur not getting.

[Roundball_Rock]

It would be 1a and 1b becuase it's close or equal. Mj and Pip wasn't close thats the damn point ur not getting.

The point you're not getting is that at the time Jordan-Pippen was seen like Lebron-Paul or Kobe-Howard would be seen today: two top-five players playing together. One was clearly better but it was close (and Pippen was as high as #2 on some people's--including SI--lists).

[juju151111]

The point you're not getting is that at the time Jordan-Pippen was seen like Lebron-Paul or Kobe-Howard would be seen today: two top-five players playing together. One was clearly better but it was close (and Pippen was as high as #2 on some people's--including SI--lists).
no It wasn't close. LOL are you kidding?

[zabuza666]

This is one of the saddest, most agenda driven threads I've ever seen on ISH.

Fatal you are one gay cu*nt

[Roundball_Rock]

no It wasn't close. LOL are you kidding?

It was actually probably closer. No one considers Paul the second-best player in the league; some--including Sports Illustrated and respected observers such as Bob Ryan--did.

[sekachu]

:oldlol: at Jordan fans yet again coming in and trolling in these threads. This was supposed to be a discussion about these series, memories, specific strategies etc. I was also looking for some input from specific posters on a couple more series I was going to add as there was a lot of judgment calls here. But nope, it's all gotta be about Jordan.

:oldlol: at some of these nitwit posters who think they deserve a response.


Good for you fatal9, using the word "discussion" in a good way but actually trying to diminish MJ games for your agenda. are we that stupid of what you think?

[Diesel J]

LOL @ this thread