Is Michael Jordan The Most Influential Athlete Ever?

[Interminator]

After witnessing the memorial for Michael Jackson, it makes me wonder how Globally influential Michael Jordan is.:confusedshrug:

Im guessing Ali is probably #1 All Time, but how influential is Jordan?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

he has influenced a LOT of people... to buy NIKE.

[twolvesfan]

magic? idk. this whole disease thing seems pretty influential

[Hammertime]

Im guessing Ali is probably #1 All Time, but how influential is Jordan?

Your ignorance is astounding.

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/1977_pele.jpg

[GOON MUSIC]

everybody knows MJ

not everyone knows magic

[sipitri]

Your ignorance is astounding.

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/1977_pele.jpg

This.

I'm from europe and here MJ is only an american basketball player, Maradona or Pel

[OneMoreSucka]

Tiger

[twolvesfan]

everybody knows MJ

not everyone knows magic
the questions wasnt about who is more popular...

[Interminator]

Your ignorance is astounding.

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/1977_pele.jpg
Really?Pele?

Thats definetly arguable considering Pele could walk through Times Square and of course he would be recognizable to some but even after those who know him tell others who he is there would be a lot of people who wouldnt really care.

Anywhere Michael Jordan goes he is globally recognizable.

[Dasher]

Outside of getting a couple of countries to suspend a war for a day, what social and political influence did Pele exert?

[darius15]

Tiger

Yup. Pretty much the only reason people watch golf.

MJ is definitely up there though.

[GOON MUSIC]

again i ask a kid who pele is and they dont know who he is

i say michael jordan and they know instantly

[OneMoreSucka]

again i ask a kid who pele is and they dont know who he is

i say michael jordan and they know instantly
That has nothing to do with influence on others.

[Interminator]

[QUOTE=sipitri]This.

I'm from europe and here MJ is only an american basketball player, Maradona or Pel

[dr8ked]

Everybody knows Michael jordan. he's up there on the list, him an tiger woods.

[GOON MUSIC]

oooo i get it now

i apologize

[magnax1]

Yeah the thing is nobody in America even knows who Pele is except for maybe 10%, but I'm going to guess that people in Europe know who jordan is.

[Interminator]

That has nothing to do with influence on others.
True, but doesnt every basketball player aspire to be better than Jordan?

While in Soccer depending on what country you're from you have your own idol.

[Hammertime]

Really?Pele?

Thats definetly arguable considering Pele could walk through Times Square and of course he would be recognizable to some but even after those who know him tell others who he is there would be a lot of people who wouldnt really care.

Anywhere Michael Jordan goes he is globally recognizable.

Yes, all the kids in the third world have MJ's posters on the wall of our mud hut. :rolleyes:

[Hammertime]

Yeah the thing is nobody in America even knows who Pele is except for maybe 10%, but I'm going to guess that people in Europe know who jordan is.

The world is more than just USA or Western Europe.

[dr8ked]

True, but doesnt every basketball player aspire to be better than Jordan?
While in Soccer depending on what country you're from you have your own idol.


Very true. The whole of Spain can testify to this one.

[OneMoreSucka]

True, but doesnt every basketball player aspire to be better than Jordan?

While in Soccer depending on what country you're from you have your own idol.
I still think it's Tiger. He made golf cool, period.

[twolvesfan]

Dikembe Mutombo should get consideration after everything he did for his country.:rockon:

[Interminator]

Everybody knows Michael jordan. he's up there on the list, him an tiger woods.
Is Tiger Woods as well known in Europe or South America or Australia or Africa?

I honestly dont think so, Golf is not as popular or known in terms of a Worldwide sport.

[dr8ked]

The world is more than just USA or Western Europe.


Africans know Jordan. Go to Asia and ask who michael Jordan is.. Havent you seen carmello promoting Jordan jumpman in china ??? Don't let nobody fool you, jordan is that well known worldwide.

[Interminator]

Yes, all the kids in the third world have MJ's posters on the wall of our mud hut. :rolleyes:
And you know this how.:rolleyes:

Does your hut have Wi Fi?

[OneMoreSucka]

Is Tiger Woods as well known in Europe or South America or Australia or Africa?

I honestly dont think so, Golf is not as popular or known in terms of a Worldwide sport.
Again, influence has nothing to do with popularity. The things Tiger did for the sport of golf cannot be compared to any other player in any other sport.

[twolvesfan]

Again, influence has nothing to do with popularity. The things Tiger did for the sport of golf cannot be compared to any other player in any other sport.


Dikembe Mutombo should get consideration after everything he did for his country.

affecting peoples lives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>popularizing a sport

[Interminator]

I still think it's Tiger. He made golf cool, period.
No he didn't he just gave Golf a "Face".

Has he revolutionized Golf?No.

Did he make it popular due to his Domination?Yes

[D-Rose]

I've been to countries in the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent and a lot more people know Ali than Jordan.

[Hammertime]

Africans know Jordan. Go to Asia and ask who michael Jordan is.. Havent you seen carmello promoting Jordan jumpman in china ??? Don't let nobody fool you, jordan is that well known worldwide.

Basketball does not have nearly the popularity of football worldwide, so to argue that MJ could somehow be better known than Pele is ridiculous. Yeah, the middle classes in China have satellite TV and know who Jordan is. That's great. How many basketball courts do you think you'd find in the rural areas of Egypt?

Oh, and when MJ can cause ceasefires simply appearing in a war-torn country, we can talk.

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/profile/pele01.html

[Interminator]

Again, influence has nothing to do with popularity. The things Tiger did for the sport of golf cannot be compared to any other player in any other sport.
Who has he influenced?

Thats what you're missing, and No im not referring to popularity.

Tiger Woods has brought attention only to his American popular sport of Golf due to his dominance, but has he influenced a new generation of golfers? Havent seen much proof.

[triangleoffense]

When I took cultural anthropology my professor told me that rural tribes in Africa and Asia that have not had any contact with society in any way, shape or form can still readily identify marketing symbols such as the nike sign or the mcdonalds sign. I think MJ is partly responsible for nike getting so theres an indirect influence right there. Symbols and signs are very powerful..

It kinda doesn't have to do with the topic but damn thats pretty influential if your company's symbol is reaching out to tribes in africa.

[Interminator]

Basketball does not have nearly the popularity of football worldwide, so to argue that MJ could somehow be better known than Pele is ridiculous. Yeah, the middle classes in China have satellite TV and know who Jordan is. That's great. How many basketball courts do you think you'd find in the rural areas of Egypt?

Oh, and when MJ can cause ceasefires simply appearing in a war-torn country, we can talk.

http://www.time.com/time/time100/heroes/profile/pele01.html
You're kidding right?

Since we're on Topic Stupid right now:
Name me a soccer player from China.:oldlol:

[OneMoreSucka]

Who has he influenced?

Thats what you're missing, and No im not referring to popularity.

Tiger Woods has brought attention only to his American popular sport of Golf due to his dominance, but has he influenced a new generation of golfers? Havent seen much proof.
100%, absolutely. There's no proof written in stone, it's just around...Golf used to be an "old man sport" and he took it to another level and made it cool to play.


Enough of Tiger though.

When I think more, how about Jackie Robinson? If it weren't for him, who knows what professional baseball would be like. He opened the doors for minorities, which now dominate professional baseball. That is influential.

[Interminator]

I've been to countries in the Middle East and Indian Subcontinent and a lot more people know Ali than Jordan.
I wonder why....:oldlol:

[triangleoffense]

Oh, and when MJ can cause ceasefires simply appearing in a war-torn country, we can talk.
I mean some could argue thats more political influence rather than someone's influence on the world/society as a whole. I still think you gotta give it to MJ. China is the biggest country in the world as far as population. They should, in theory, have the biggest consumer market in the world as well but that belongs to the US.

[magnax1]

The world is more than just USA or Western Europe.
I know that but somebody said Pele, and hes just plain not. Jordan probably is the most well known athlete in the world.

[D-Rose]

I wonder why....:oldlol:
That's like 40% of the world's population that knows Ali more :hammerhead:

[crisoner]

he has influenced a LOT of people... to buy NIKE.


YUP



In the States he is one of them.
Specially for the modern day athlete as far as endorsements etc. go.
The Jordan brand speaks for itself.

There are two things that make his greatness....Jordan the ball player who was one of the best ever....and Jordan the brand name. Put those together and Jordan is the modern day symbol of what every pro athlete strives to be.

[sipitri]

Its the same thing here regarding Maradona and Pele.

They're just soccer players to a lot of Americans here, and they're probably #2 and #3 behind Beckham here.

I know but is bball famous in south america or africa? In those countries Maradona and Pele I'm sure are really famous, don't know about MJ.
In the U.S.A. I'm with you saying that they're way below MJ talking about popularity.

[vert48]

No he didn't he just gave Golf a "Face".

Has he revolutionized Golf?No.

Did he make it popular due to his Domination?YesYes, he has revolutionized golf.

[Hammertime]

You're kidding right?

Since we're on Topic Stupid right now:
Name me a soccer player from China.:oldlol:

Well, seeing as you don't watch the sport, their names would hardly mean anything to you.

But then again, you have no idea who this is either, and about a billion people in the world are much more familiar with him than MJ.

http://starbozz.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/sachin.jpg

But then again, what the f*ck do you know about the world outside whatever podunk town in the US you live in?

[Interminator]

100%, absolutely. There's no proof written in stone, it's just around...Golf used to be an "old man sport" and he took it to another level and made it cool to play.
Golf was never an "old man sport" the problem with Golf before Tiger was that it never was modernized with a New fresh face dominating the sport, the years between the last dominate golfer and Tiger is mindboggling. Tiger didnt take Golf to another level instead he dominated the sport, and Golf isnt cool to play because of the complexity & lack of availability of the game.






When I think more, how about Jackie Robinson? If it weren't for him, who knows what professional baseball would be like. He opened the doors for minorities, which now dominate professional baseball. That is influential.
Jackie Robinson didn't open doors for Hispanics, if you do your research you would realize Hispanics had already played in MLB 40 years prior to Robinson.

His impact however is expanded although it was common during the Civil Rights Era for athletes or professionals to fight the discriminatory social norms of their profession. Robinson was the 1st to do so in Baseball, but few people expand on the equal impact by athletes like Fritz Pollard and Nat Clifton.

[lakers_forever]

http://www.idelberavelar.com/pele-santos1958.jpg

It's Pele. He was first true worldwide sports superstar and best soccer player ever.
Before him the "10" jersey was just a number, after him it became the number most player desires to wear and usually belong to the best player on the team.

He is also acknowledged for his vocal support of policies to improve the social conditions of the poor (when he scored his 1,000th goal he dedicated it to the poor children of Brazil

"How do you spell Pel

[D-Rose]

Well, seeing as you don't watch the sport, their names would hardly mean anything to you.

But then again, you have no idea who this is either, and about a billion people in the world are much more familiar with him than MJ.

http://starbozz.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/sachin.jpg

But then again, what the f*ck do you know about the world outside whatever podunk town in the US you live in?
I'd say Brian Lara may be known to more but Sachin does have India.

[Interminator]

That's like 40% of the world's population that knows Ali more :hammerhead:
OK.

I said in the 1st post it might be Ali considering his global impact has lasted longer than Jordan's because Ali became a social icon in terms of his refusal to obey orders and serve in Vietnam.

[BFRESH44]

Easily.

Dudes wait out infront of malls at 4 AM in the moring to camp out for some Air Jordan Sneakers. 'Nuff said.

[vert48]

Well, seeing as you don't watch the sport, their names would hardly mean anything to you.

But then again, you have no idea who this is either, and about a billion people in the world are much more familiar with him than MJ.

http://starbozz.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/sachin.jpg

But then again, what the f*ck do you know about the world outside whatever podunk town in the US you live in?Tendulkar was so much fun to watch when he was a bit younger.

[lakers_forever]

And like someone I already said, In 1967, the two factions involved in the Nigerian Civil War agreed to a 48-hour ceasefire so they could watch Pel

[Interminator]

Yes, he has revolutionized golf.
No he hasn't, The sport hasnt changed at all.

Remove Tiger Woods from Golf and its the same sport it had been since Nickalaus' decline.

[lakers_forever]

Also anything Pele says about any player becomes big news around the soccer countries.

[triangleoffense]

[quote]And like someone I already said, In 1967, the two factions involved in the Nigerian Civil War agreed to a 48-hour ceasefire so they could watch Pel

[crisoner]

Easily.

Dudes wait out infront of malls at 4 AM in the moring to camp out for some Air Jordan Sneakers. 'Nuff said.


Those kids are called hypebeast and are pathetic.

http://www.nahhomie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hypebeast.jpg

And for some reasons there are a whole lot of Asian (Filipinos) that fall in to this pathetic category.

[Hammertime]

Here's some simple statistics courtesy of Google.

http://google.com/trends?q=cristiano+ronaldo
http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan

And since no ISH thread could do without him:

http://google.com/trends?q=kobe+bryant

[Interminator]

Easily.

Dudes wait out infront of malls at 4 AM in the moring to camp out for some Air Jordan Sneakers. 'Nuff said.
Another reason for his influence, All you need to do is watch the Documentary on Nike to realize how Jordan himself powered Nike into the worldwide Billion dollar brand it has become.

[triangleoffense]

Here's some simple statistics courtesy of Google.

http://google.com/trends?q=cristiano+ronaldo
http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan

And since no ISH thread could do without him:

http://google.com/trends?q=kobe+bryant

Jordan's is higher and he's not even playing. Christiano is in his prime and goes to EPL championships every year.

[Interminator]

Here's some simple statistics courtesy of Google.

http://google.com/trends?q=cristiano+ronaldo
http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan

And since no ISH thread could do without him:

http://google.com/trends?q=kobe+bryant
Thats pathetic.

Jordan has been retired for 6 years now, his influence goes furthur than the relevant interest in himself as a person now.

Ronaldo is still playing, but he like LeBron James in basketball is on pace but equally are more relevant as athletes today, but that doesn't mean they have more influence than Jordan.

[triangleoffense]

"Don't try to confuse us with your funky graphs and charts man!"

[DLeagueWannabe]

Thats pathetic.

Jordan has been retired for 6 years now, his influence goes furthur than the relevant interest in himself as a person now.

Ronaldo is still playing, but he like LeBron James in basketball is on pace but equally are more relevant as athletes today, but that doesn't mean they have more influence than Jordan.

You obviously think you're right, so why argue. (Not saying you're wrong with your opinion) but there are athletes that at least rival Jordan's influence, Pele and Ali being some of those athletes. It's not as clear cut as you claim it to be, even if you are correct.

[Hammertime]

Thats pathetic.

Jordan has been retired for 6 years now, his influence goes furthur than the relevant interest in himself as a person now.

Ronaldo is still playing, but he like LeBron James in basketball is on pace but equally are more relevant as athletes today, but that doesn't mean they have more influence than Jordan.

Fine then, fool.

Pele

http://google.com/trends?q=pele&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Keep in mind that this is despite the internet obviously skewing things toward developed countries.

[BallersTalk]

Easily Jordan without question. The word basketball is synonymous with Michael Jordan. He's the standard by which all basketball players are measured.

[Hammertime]

Jordan's is higher and he's not even playing. Christiano is in his prime and goes to EPL championships every year.

Jordan is NOT higher. Those charts are scaled, so look at the numbers on the left side.

[andgar923]

Mj's influence is stretches beyond basketball.

Other athletes from other sports are inspired by him in some manner.

He influenced them as athletes and even businessmen.

Pele might be THE most recognized (along with Ali) but I doubt either were as influential as MJ, and I don't say that lightly.

I mean... there's soccer players that are also influenced by MJ.

You can say it was due to marketing, and that might be a big reason as to why he's known worldwide. But there's more to that, than just marketing. I think his marketing 'introduced' him to the world and his feats influenced them to some degree, either directly or indirectly.

I mean... just look at how in awe Ronaldinho was when he met MJ.

[DuMa]

MJ, Tiger, Lance, Ali is my mount rushmore of athletes

[Interminator]

You obviously think you're right, so why argue. (Not saying you're wrong with your opinion) but there are athletes that at least rival Jordan's influence, Pele and Ali being some of those athletes. It's not as clear cut as you claim it to be, even if you are correct.
Ali may have more influence worldwide, hes a social icon of nonviolent rebellion almost as the man in Tiennaman Square.

[twolvesfan]

MJ, Tiger, Lance, Ali is my mount rushmore of athletes
oh cmon, i know im getting old crying about this guy but Deke should be on everyones list of most INFLUENTIAL (NOT MOST POPULAR) athletes

[noob cake]

Total amount of Football fans/revenue is pretty much at least 10x Basketball and American Football combined.

Has to be a great Footballer

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Influence? beyond selling shoes?

Ali
Jackie Robinson
Jesse Owens (1936 olympics in Berlin)
Tiger

yes, MJ may be more POPULAR than all of the above...but "influential"?

[quasimoto]

Jordan is NOT higher. Those charts are scaled, so look at the numbers on the left side.
http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan%2C+cristiano+ronaldo%2C+ko be+bryant%2C+pele&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

[Interminator]

I mean... there's soccer players that are also influenced by MJ.

You can say it was due to marketing, and that might be a big reason as to why he's known worldwide. But there's more to that, than just marketing. I think his marketing 'introduced' him to the world and his feats influenced them to some degree, either directly or indirectly.

I mean... just look at how in awe Ronaldinho was when he met MJ.
I think thats also what it boils down to, inspiring athletes in different sports is also another example of influence.

Beckham wore #23 in honor of Jordan for Real Madrid.

But marketing definetly plays a factor, Jordan like Michael Jackson capitalized on the media revolution which brought him into more homes and allowed him to play a part in the daily lives of people, although he was nothing more than a basketball player. But his greatness at it made him a Global Icon due to how many people could witness it.

[Interminator]

oh cmon, i know im getting old crying about this guy but Deke should be on everyones list of most INFLUENTIAL (NOT MOST POPULAR) athletes
Deke is influential in his native homeland of Congo, but its a telling sign when players from Africa who have emerged after him list Michael Jordan among their idols although they may not have ever even had a TV growing up.(along with Deke)

[ukplayer4]

i live in europe and i will say michael jordan by far, not pele, certainly not tiger.

[Hammertime]

http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan%2C+cristiano+ronaldo%2C+ko be+bryant%2C+pele&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Thanks. I didn't think of doing that. Much easier to compare this way.

On a related and controversial note, http://google.com/trends?q=kobe%2C+lebron&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0

:oldlol:

[vert48]

No he hasn't, The sport hasnt changed at all.

Remove Tiger Woods from Golf and its the same sport it had been since Nickalaus' decline.The sport hasn't changed? You obviously know nothing about golf. It has changed more than MJ changed basketball, that is for sure.

[andgar923]

I think thats also what it boils down to, inspiring athletes in different sports is also another example of influence.

Beckham wore #23 in honor of Jordan for Real Madrid.

But marketing definetly plays a factor, Jordan like Michael Jackson capitalized on the media revolution which brought him into more homes and allowed him to play a part in the daily lives of people, although he was nothing more than a basketball player. But his greatness at it made him a Global Icon due to how many people could witness it.

There's boxers that watch MJ vids before they fight, football players list him as their fav athlete, some Olympians list him as their fav or most influential over legends from their own sport.

And yes, marketing played a huge role, but I think his story of an underdog that built himself with hardwork is what's the most inspiring.

Who doesn't know the story of MJ overcoming obstacle after obstacle? how he molded and willed himself to be great?

THAT'S what inspires them. Before him, I can honestly say that I don't remember an athlete talk about his work ethic and how competitive they were.

Ali was a divisive figure for many, specially during his prime.

Pele influenced soccer players, there's no doubt about that.

But none of them impacted 'sports' like MJ. I can even get into the social impact that he had, but that's an entirely different argument.

[triangleoffense]

Fine then, fool.

Pele

http://google.com/trends?q=pele&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Keep in mind that this is despite the internet obviously skewing things toward developed countries.
Who do you think your trying to fool with those graphs? Do you think we're stupid and we won't click them?

http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan (Jordan)

http://google.com/trends?q=pele&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 (Pele)

compare those 2 graphs and tell me they don't look similar. If anything Pele and Michael have comparable if not identical amounts of influence. But my argument is more primarily due to the conception of the nike brand. Also remember that michael has his own brand within that company called Air Jordans that sport their own image as well. If you take that with what I told you about cultural anthropology, symbols, and their influence on even the most remote populations on earth then Jordans gotta be the clear winner.

[Hammertime]

Who do you think your trying to fool with those graphs? Do you think we're stupid and we won't click them?

Ok, fine, here it is again:

http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan%2C+pele&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0

Last 12 months, searches worldwide.

MJ index is 1.0, Pele is 1.28. If you think that's similar, how about I trade you 100 dollars for 128 dollars...several times?

[triangleoffense]

searches worldwide doesn't take into account MJ's contribution to nike


But my argument is more primarily due to the conception of the nike brand.
Nice link btw.. fun little tool. Take into account searchs for nike and its not even a ballgame.

http://google.com/trends?q=michael+jordan%2C+pele%2C+nike&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0

Michael: 1.0 Pele: 1.2 Nike: 18.0

for your 120 dollars I have $1800. That .2 doesn't feel so substantial now does it?

[Kombo]

Jackie Robinson

[Hammertime]

searches worldwide doesn't take into account MJ's contribution to nike

Moving the goalposts aren't we? The question here is whether more people worldwide know who MJ is than who Pele is.

[dbugz]

RIP!

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s158/matzhee/14c8nqu.jpg

[triangleoffense]

Moving the goalposts aren't we? The question here is whether more people worldwide know who MJ is than who Pele is.
lol you were the one that was so big into your fancy graphs and charts. Like I said, with Nike having 18.0 more searches to Pele's 1.2 than don't you think the sole and founding contributor to Nike's fame deserves some credit?

http://books.google.com/books?id=tNNsesXOUVUC&pg=PA76&dq=nike+michael+jordan <-- explains how Jordan single handily transformed Nike into a global icon.

If a person knows the Nike symbol don't you think they know MJ? Even if 1 in 18.0 of those searchees recognized MJ's name then that still puts MJ 2.0 to Pele's 1.2.

And no I don't think I'm moving the goalposts because my original argument was that Nike had to be taken into account when you weighed who had more influence.

My original post on this thread:


When I took cultural anthropology my professor told me that rural tribes in Africa and Asia that have not had any contact with society in any way, shape or form can still readily identify marketing symbols such as the nike sign or the mcdonalds sign. I think MJ is partly responsible for nike getting so theres an indirect influence right there. Symbols and signs are very powerful..

[craiye]

Gotta love Interminator's reasoning:

"I think soccer sucks so it can't be someone who plays soccer"

Fact is, far more people care about soccer/football than any other sport. Jordan is easily the most recognizable basketball player ever but I'm not sure he's the most influential athlete. I'd have to say it'd have to be a footballer simply because it's so, so, so much more popular on a global scale.

[Hammertime]

If a person knows the Nike symbol don't you think they know MJ? Even if 1 in 18.0 of those searchees recognized MJ's name then that still puts MJ 2.0 to Pele's 1.2.

And no I don't think I'm moving the goalposts because my original argument was that Nike had to be taken into account when you weighed who had more influence.

Again, if someone does not have internet, they can't make Google searches. Football is tremendously popular in poor countries. Hell, in many of those, it's the only sport of note.

I posted a graph of internet searches as an illustration that more people searched for Pele than Michael Jordan in the last year. I made no statements about influence, economic impact(another skewed thing because obviously popularity in richer countries means more impact).

Also, your professor is a moron. How could uncontacted tribes recognize the Nike symbol unless they had contact with it?

[triangleoffense]

Also, your professor is a moron. How could uncontacted tribes recognize the Nike symbol unless they had contact with it?
lol I see there's no arguing with you. I'm sure a doctorates in anthropology from UCLA means nothing at the community college your going to huh?

I'm not going to get into it because it would be a long post and I"m probaly not the right person that should explain it but it has to do with the fact that symbols and signs are implanted into our genetics somehow(science has yet to explain a lot of stuff dealing with human DNA, genetics and the human conscious) as well huge corporations' fanatical push to advertise in all areas of the world.

How much school have you completed?

[Hammertime]

lol I see there's no arguing with you. I'm sure a doctorates in anthropology from UCLA means nothing at the community college your going to huh?

No, no, I wanna discuss this some more. I want to know how tribes with no contact with society could recognize the swish. Clairvoyance? I mean, you said they had no contact with society. If they have never seen the Nike logo, how the hell could they tell what a Nike logo is then?

[phoenix18]

Is Michael Jeffrey Jordan the most influential athlete ever? No. Try Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson, Jackie Robinson,Pele, Jesse Owens.

[triangleoffense]

No, no, I wanna discuss this some more. I want to know how tribes with no contact with society could recognize the swish. Clairvoyance? I mean, you said they had no contact with society. If they have never seen the Nike logo, how the hell could they tell what a Nike logo is then?
now look who's trying to change the goalposts. You expect me to waste time explaining something like that to someone like you? You have the internet why don't you look it up yourself. Sorry if you don't think someone with a masters in cultural anthropology isn't sufficient enough to explain that.

[Hammertime]

rofl now look who's trying to change the goalposts. You expect me to waste time explaining something like that to someone like you? You have the internet why don't you look it up yourself. Sorry if you don't think someone with a masters in cultural anthropology isn't sufficient enough to explain that.

Hey, you used this is an argument, now I want you to explain to me how this is possible.

Oh, and who doesn't f*cking have a masters nowadays?

[D-Rose]

Wouldn't more people in China know Kobe/Yao more than Jordan?

[triangleoffense]

now I want you to explain to me how this is possible.

Maybe this is when you should learn one of life's many lessons. You can't always get what you want.


Oh, and who doesn't f*cking have a masters nowadays?

I'm sure you think a bachelors is a bunch of eligible men.

[Hammertime]

I'm sure you think a bachelors is a bunch of eligible men.

No, but I also don't think UCLA is a real school either. That did give me a good laugh though. A masters from UCLA. It's like me bragging about driving a Cavalier.

[triangleoffense]

lol I love how your trying to argue a point I made that really has nothing to do with my argument. Nike doesn't only affect tribes in africa it affects every type of economy in the world. Third world countries sell massively produced nike brand merchandise. Your grasping at straws here and trying to argue whatever point you feel like argueing to divert attention from the original topic. It's like obvious

[triangleoffense]

No, but I also don't think UCLA is a real school either. That did give me a good laugh though. A masters from UCLA. It's like me bragging about driving a Cavalier.
lol, again, what type of education have you had?

[Bush4Ever]

Muhammad Ali is the most influential athlete ever.

Both him and Jordan are the greatest in their respective sports (or close), but Ali was much more political and controversial (which, like it or not puts ideas and issues in the public discourse).

[Hammertime]

lol, again, what type of education have you had?

BA from University of Oregon. Masters from McGill. Post-colonial literature. I will admit that the first one isn't much of a school either.

[Quata]

http://blog.ecr.co.za/cockontheblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/lance_armstrong1.jpg

In terms of influence being generated right now id say lance is near the top, but over all time id say pele/ali. MJ didnt exert the same sort of influence as these guys, although its rediculous how many kids STILL want to be like mj.

[magnax1]

OKay heres how the influence chart goes
Jordan>Ali=Pele
Most people in the world wouldn't know who you were talking about if you said something about Pele Same with Ali. But probably if you go anywhere but Africa and asked if they knew who jordan was at least a third would know, probably more.

[Hammertime]

OKay heres how the influence chart goes
Jordan>Ali=Pele
Most people in the world wouldn't know who you were talking about if you said something about Pele Same with Ali. But probably if you go anywhere but Africa and asked if they knew who jordan was at least a third would know, probably more.

Yes, no one knows who Pele is in Africa.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07uIbg90WJeVz/610x.jpg

[Bush4Ever]

OKay heres how the influence chart goes
Jordan>Ali=Pele
Most people in the world wouldn't know who you were talking about if you said something about Pele Same with Ali. But probably if you go anywhere but Africa and asked if they knew who jordan was at least a third would know, probably more.

Yeah, imagine if Ali had a famous fight in Africa, with the stadium literally shaking from Africans chanting his name as he fought a then-perceived to be superior foe.

Ah well......if only, right?

[kareem]

Is Michael Jordan The Most Influential Athlete Ever?
by asking this question i think you are still young and trying to learn .
and i salut you for that .

if u just give some time and read or watch about some of the names mentioned above , you wud know the answer.. no no you wud know that question shouldn't be asked .

superstars have responsibilities to use the fame and power the right way

i respect Tiger Woods and Jordan and they are great athletes
but comparing to Muhammad Ali for example . Jordan was a whore for money as is Tiger

i will past somthing i posted befoe about Ali :

what made Muhammad Ali the greatest ?
not his speed , grace , strength , stamina
Not just for what he did in the ring.
But for what he did outside the ring.
ali is a man with a voice , a man with heart to speak up
----------------
he says in his book :
" no matter where i go everybody recognizes my face, and knows my name , people love
and admire me , look up to me .. that's alot of power and influence for one man to have
so i knwo i have a responsibility to use my fame the right way "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNyLjs1kBc8 ( 2:54 - 3:14 ) mark
-----------------
a very good book : Redemption song By Mike Marqusee (free in google books )
page 8-9
when he said : i don't have to be what you want me to be . iam free to be what i want.
the auther says : No boxing champion, and no black sports star, had ever issued
such a ringing declaration of independence .
reactions were swift and hostile : (WBA) began moves to strip him of his title ,
his record album was pulled from the shelves by Columbia, endorcmentdeals deals
evaporated , and lost 3.5 years of his prime .
-------
check this coool song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm1jx6RmU9Y

young people please search for Muhammad Ali and other great names speaches and intervews , you will never stop watching

[Hammertime]

The amount of USA-centrism in this thread is absolutely astounding. That people just can't believe that a man who's so ubiquitous in popular culture of the USA would be unknown to people in other countries is apparently unfathomable.

People need to realize that their limited personal experience is not in any way indicative of global trends. People need to realize that just because they don't know who Pele is, it's possible that there are billions of people around the world who do. I think this is the real reason why people keep arguing that somehow a man who played a sport half the world doesn't care about and markets shoes 90% of the world can't afford is better known than the icon of the only globally universal sport there is.

It's like how few people are ready to believe that the Eagles' Greatest Hits sold more copies in the US than Thriller did. "But I don't know anyone who owns the Eagles' Greatest Hits and I know so many people who own Thriller so that's not possible."

[Hammertime]

While I'm at it.

http://www.doencadeparkinson.com.br/famosos_arquivos/ali_mandela.jpg

[kareem]

While I'm at it. :)
some Muhammad Ali Quotes :

I'll be floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee .

I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was.

my favourite is "God gave me this illness to remind me I'm not number one; he is"

I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest
of your life as a champion."

I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be.
I'm free to be what I want.

Boxing is a lot of white men watching two black men beat each other up.

Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does
the hating. It's just plain wrong.

I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in
bed before the room was dark.

It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am.

My toughest fight was with my first wife.

I am America. I am the part you won't recognise. But get used to me. Black, confident,
cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me.

"What's my name, fool? What's my name?"
To Ernie Terrell during their 1967 fight - Terrell had refused to call him Muhammad Ali

I got nothing against no Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me a '******'.

"Sure I know where Vietnam is... It's on TV"

Don't know what that is but if it's good, I'm it!! - Ali on being asked if he was
being truculent by a reporter

When asked when he came back from exile if he had missed boxing, he replied not as much as
boxing has missed me

TV man says in the build up to the first Liston fight: "I've just seen Liston and..."

Ali: "Ain't he ugly?"

Interviewer and film crew end up crying with laughter

(iam a good boy . i never have done anything wrong . i have never been to jail .
i have never been in court . i don't join any integration marches .
i don't pay any attention to all those white women who wink at me )
-------
most of the qoutes are available on youtube

[magnax1]

Yes, no one knows who Pele is in Africa.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07uIbg90WJeVz/610x.jpg
Lol, just because you found a picture of Pele in Africa, doesn't mean that if you went there and took a survey people would know who he is. Pele is not as well known around the world as jordan.

[Bush4Ever]

Lol, just because you found a picture of Pele in Africa, doesn't mean that if you went there and took a survey people would know who he is. Pele is not as well known around the world as jordan.

You think the most famous player of the world's most played and watched sport isn't going to be well known?

Really?

[CarpeDiemKJ]

MJ is the standard. The be all, end all.

[rfm767]

I would say pele or maradona in the whole world except in the states. States may be Tiger, Jordan or someone else. And since USA represents like 4,5% of global population, i'd say Pele.

[magnax1]

You think the most famous player of the world's most played and watched sport isn't going to be well known?

Really?
I'm not saying he isn't well known, but one of the reasons that he isn't as well known is because when he was good, the sport wasn't near as popular in places like Asia and Africa. Also in asia soccer still isn't extremely popular. Plus you have the huge region of us/canada where nobody knows who he is. I only learned who he is a couple months ago, and I watch soccer all the time.

[simcjt]

I'm not saying he isn't well known, but one of the reasons that he isn't as well known is because when he was good, the sport wasn't near as popular in places like Asia and Africa. Also in asia soccer still isn't extremely popular. Plus you have the huge region of us/canada where nobody knows who he is. I only learned who he is a couple months ago, and I watch soccer all the time.

If thats the case im going to assume your from the U.S. and you probably just watch soccer as in when team usa is playing. If you really follow the sport and are just searching for idk amazing goals, i'd have to say 1 in 5 are pele and you've really havn't looked into what all these players try to be

[magnax1]

If thats the case im going to assume your from the U.S. and you probably just watch soccer as in when team usa is playing. If you really follow the sport and are just searching for idk amazing goals, i'd have to say 1 in 5 are pele and you've really havn't looked into what all these players try to be
Actually I basically will watch whatever team is on the fox soccer channel when I want to watch soccer. I've actually only watched the US team a couple times. And I dont really understand what your point is either.

[lbj23clutch]

MJ is the most influential athlete of all time hands down.

[NJQ]

Of course Pele is well known in Africa. :roll:

Worldwide

1. Ali
2. Pele
3. Jordan

[lilgregoden]

I've never heard of Pele before I saw this thread.

[TheAnchorman]

Worldwide: Michael Jordan, hands down. The circumstances of his rise along with the massive expansion and merging of the sports world and the media during the 80s helped him become known all throughout the world. No other athlete surpasses his fame, even if soccer is the most popular sport.

[NBASTATMAN]

After witnessing the memorial for Michael Jackson, it makes me wonder how Globally influential Michael Jordan is.:confusedshrug:

Im guessing Ali is probably #1 All Time, but how influential is Jordan?



ALI IS NUMBER ONE

[triangleoffense]

It's like how few people are ready to believe that the Eagles' Greatest Hits sold more copies in the US than Thriller did. "But I don't know anyone who owns the Eagles' Greatest Hits and I know so many people who own Thriller so that's not possible."

uh thats true but I don't see how that relates to US-centrism. The eagles and Michael were both from America.

[OneMoreSucka]

Goddamn this **** has gotten HEATED

[sbw19]

Is Michael Jordan The Most Influential Athlete Ever?
Yes he is.

http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mike-snappin.jpg


But seriously, it has to be Pele or Ali. Jordan probably ranks 3rd , definitely the most influential basketball player ever.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

jesse owens

[poido123]

I love MJ, but enough threads on him already, people will start to turn on him because of this...:confusedshrug:

[Zak]

i lived in saudi arabia, and constantly went to lebanon/jordan and they all know pele and ali, most people know jordan too.

[Hammertime]

uh thats true but I don't see how that relates to US-centrism. The eagles and Michael were both from America.

It doesn't relate to US-centrism, but rather the idea that people have difficulty believing things their personal experience hasn't taught them. I was using it as a sort of local example of the phenomenon. Sample size and sample choice are everything here.

Cricket is huge in the Indian subcontinent, with India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka all being crazy about it. It's the number one sport in all those countries, and together, they have 1.5 billion people. Obviously, not everyone there follows cricket much like not everyone in the US follows basketball. Still, it's a tremendous market, about a quarter of the world's population, and yes, most of them do know who Sachin Tendulkar is. If you interviewed 10,000 at random in the US and asked them if they knew who he was, how many would say yes? Very few, but you can't make assumptions about his global popularity based on that.

And yes, case in point, if you're black and living in America, you probably know who Michael Jackson was. You probably own, or know someone who owns his music. The Eagles? A white folk-rock band from California? Let's be honest, probably not a lot of fans in urban Atlanta or Detroit. And living in one of those places might make you think that Michael Jackson sold infinitely more copies of Thriller than the Eagles did of their Best Of record(which doesn't even contain Hotel California, which is nothing short of stupefying).

I suppose I'd compare this to me not knowing who Garth Brooks was until the late 90s. How could I? My cultural background was quite unlike his target audience, I never watched music stations, I didn't listen to radio, I had no friends who liked country music, I played in punk bands in HS...The dude was selling tens of millions of records, and to me he might as well have been a pub musician.

[Lebron23]

Muhammad Ali

Pele

[IInvented]

Tiger
:oldlol: :oldlol: **** outta here.. wut has he done that's so influential?

[AAckley1]

Easily.

Dudes wait out infront of malls at 4 AM in the moring to camp out for some Air Jordan Sneakers. 'Nuff said.

People stopped killing each other to watch Pele kick a ball.

And the person who keeps saying that Jordan is the most influential because of Nike...GTFO.

Using your logic, Steve Prefontaine(sp?) is the 2nd most influential athlete in the world. and Oregon is the most recognizable college. Phil Knight must be the most popular man in the world.

[Interminator]

It doesn't relate to US-centrism, but rather the idea that people have difficulty believing things their personal experience hasn't taught them. I was using it as a sort of local example of the phenomenon. Sample size and sample choice are everything here.

Cricket is huge in the Indian subcontinent, with India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka all being crazy about it. It's the number one sport in all those countries, and together, they have 1.5 billion people. Obviously, not everyone there follows cricket much like not everyone in the US follows basketball. Still, it's a tremendous market, about a quarter of the world's population, and yes, most of them do know who Sachin Tendulkar is. If you interviewed 10,000 at random in the US and asked them if they knew who he was, how many would say yes? Very few, but you can't make assumptions about his global popularity based on that.

And yes, case in point, if you're black and living in America, you probably know who Michael Jackson was. You probably own, or know someone who owns his music. The Eagles? A white folk-rock band from California? Let's be honest, probably not a lot of fans in urban Atlanta or Detroit. And living in one of those places might make you think that Michael Jackson sold infinitely more copies of Thriller than the Eagles did of their Best Of record(which doesn't even contain Hotel California, which is nothing short of stupefying).

I suppose I'd compare this to me not knowing who Garth Brooks was until the late 90s. How could I? My cultural background was quite unlike his target audience, I never watched music stations, I didn't listen to radio, I had no friends who liked country music, I played in punk bands in HS...The dude was selling tens of millions of records, and to me he might as well have been a pub musician.

This post is full of fail.

All of those people who live in urban Atlanta and Detroit know of The Beatles, and Elvis Pressley and probably other great artists. You'd be surprised, how people knowof artists who are considered "Great".

However the fact that you're comparing a Basketball star to a Cricket star is absolutely laughable, Cricket is wildly popular in India, and is popular in England, Austrialia, and South Africa.:oldlol: However when people think of Cricket in other countries they think of a chirping bug that keeps you up at night.

Basketball is a worldwide universal sport popular in every country, and Jordan's influence reached furthur than basketball unlike any Cricket player has ever done. Jordan represents Dominance & Greatness of anything while doing so in such grace and respect.

What Jordan did in his NBA career inspires others who don't even play sports, but uses his success as motivation towards their goal.

[Hammertime]

Basketball is a worldwide universal sport popular in every country,.

Good one. FIBA has 74 member countries, for the record.

[Interminator]

Good one. FIBA has 74 member countries, for the record.
Considering its harder to build a basketball court than a soccer field, I'll say thats a good sign for basketball.

Now tell me about how many countries have Cricket teams.:rolleyes:; I've never seen someone make themselves look so stupid and go out of their way to discredit Jordan.

You do realize you claimed that a Cricket player has more infleunce Globally than Michael Jordan, just because he plays in a country with more people. What dumb logic.

[KoolKat]

Pel

[Hammertime]

Considering its harder to build a basketball court than a soccer field, I'll say thats a good sign for basketball.

Now tell me about how many countries have Cricket teams.:rolleyes:; I've never seen someone make themselves look so stupid and go out of their way to discredit Jordan.

44 ranked members.


You do realize you claimed that a Cricket player has more infleunce Globally than Michael Jordan, just because he plays in a country with more people. What dumb logic.

I never claimed that, but since you mention it, how does number of countries where a sport is played mean more influence than the number of people who follow a sport?

Also, be honest, have you ever actually been outside of your home state, let alone the US?

[Interminator]

44 ranked members.
Thanks, now please shut up.




I never claimed that, but since you mention it, how does number of countries where a sport is played mean more influence than the number of people who follow a sport?
Then why the **** did you mention him?




Also, be honest, have you ever actually been outside of your home state, let alone the US?
Ironic because I moved around a lot as a kid, and I have been to London, Paris, & Hanover.

[KubiliusF]

Pele

[Hammertime]

Then why the **** did you mention him?

To show that it's possible for a man to be idolized by a billion people and your sorry ass to not know who he was.



Ironic because I moved around a lot as a kid, and I have been to London, Paris, & Hanover.

Oh my god, that's like....two countries you've been to. :roll:

Oh, and you still haven't provided any firm evidence for popularity of MJ or basketball worldwide. I'm waiting. Numbers please.

[kurple]

soccer is the more popular sport (world wide)

[rfm767]

Pele, really. Anything else is out of discussion. I personally live in Chile, have traveled almost all of South America (Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Colombia) and rest assure, PELE is god here. I speak for all S America when saying PELE is alone in the top here.

[Interminator]

Pele, really. Anything else is out of discussion. I personally live in Chile, have traveled almost all of South America (Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Colombia) ad rest assure, PELE is god here. i speak for all S America whn saying PELE is alone in the top here.
When was South America the entire "World" brah?

[IInvented]

To show that it's possible for a man to be idolized by a billion people and your sorry ass to not know who he was.


Billion people? dont nobody know him outside of USA.. :oldlol: @ you thinking idk how he is...

[Interminator]

To show that it's possible for a man to be idolized by a billion people and your sorry ass to not know who he was.




Oh my god, that's like....two countries you've been to. :roll:

Oh, and you still haven't provided any firm evidence for popularity of MJ or basketball worldwide. I'm waiting. Numbers please.
And where is this firm evidence of Pele?

Dont force me to show my cards when you're bluffing the entire time.

Show me evidence for how Pele had more influence worldwide than Jordan.

[triangleoffense]

Pele, really. Anything else is out of discussion. I personally live in Chile, have traveled almost all of South America (Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Colombia) ad rest assure, PELE is god here. i speak for all S America whn saying PELE is alone in the top here.

uh thats cause Pele is from South America. Thats why the most searches for MJ come from Raleigh, NC (his alma mater)

[Norcaliblunt]

Babe Ruth

[truethat23]

I think Michael Jordan has to be on the short list of most influential athletes ever, along with Muhammad Ali.

Michael in my opinion was really the first multimedia athlete of the 20th century to make a global impact as far as popularity and image is concerned. He really set the standard for the athletes of today as far as endorsements and image. Nike was not the big force that it is today until he came along with the Jordan sneaker, which even after his retirement is still one of the top selling sneakers in the market. It literally became its own brand. No one knew about the Wheaties box until Jordan was on the box. Because of MJ, all the top athletes of today want to be involved with Nike somehow. Today, when an athlete wins something, they go on the Wheaties box. You name it, McDonalds, Hanes, Gatorade (Be Like Mike commercials); Jordan set the standard for today's athlete.

The Jordan shoe brand has become the blueprint for how other basketball players and athletes market the merchandise. The success of the Jordan sneaker made it possible for Lebron, Kobe, D-Wade, Iverson, and everyone else in basketball and beyond to have their name on shoes. Jordan was the inspiration behind that.

I remember watching Jordan's SportsCentury documentary on ESPN one day. A journalist reporting on the Dream Team said he thought Magic was the most popular athlete in the world at the time back in 1992. He said he was proven wrong when he went to Barcelona and saw a 50 foot poster of Jordan on the side of a building.

I could go on and on but in my opinion, Jordan not only changed the game of basketball, but he way so popular and so damn good at what he did that he changed the way athletes were to market themselves. He paved the way for Lebron James, Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, Venus and Serena, Yao, Shaq, Peyton Manning, and any other top athlete today.

...so yeah, I think he was the most influential.

[Dengness9]

Oh course MJ was, duh.


Michael Jordan still makes the second most money of any athlete on Earth only behind Tiger Woods, even though MJ has been retired for almost a decade, more if you don't include that comeback w/ the Wiz which doesn't exist to me.

Jordan still has billboards up in both Americas, Europe, Asia, Australia, and Africa.

This isn't even a debate.


http://www.partnershipactivation.com/storage/Gatorade%20-%20Michael%20Jordan%20Billboard%20-%20CHicago.jpg

[TheAnchorman]

I think Michael Jordan has to be on the short list of most influential athletes ever, along with Muhammad Ali.

Michael in my opinion was really the first multimedia athlete of the 20th century to make a global impact as far as popularity and image is concerned. He really set the standard for the athletes of today as far as endorsements and image. Nike was not the big force that it is today until he came along with the Jordan sneaker, which even after his retirement is still one of the top selling sneakers in the market. It literally became its own brand. No one knew about the Wheaties box until Jordan was on the box. Because of MJ, all the top athletes of today want to be involved with Nike somehow. Today, when an athlete wins something, they go on the Wheaties box. You name it, McDonalds, Hanes, Gatorade (Be Like Mike commercials); Jordan set the standard for today's athlete.

The Jordan shoe brand has become the blueprint for how other basketball players and athletes market the merchandise. The success of the Jordan sneaker made it possible for Lebron, Kobe, D-Wade, Iverson, and everyone else in basketball and beyond to have their name on shoes. Jordan was the inspiration behind that.

I remember watching Jordan's SportsCentury documentary on ESPN one day. A journalist reporting on the Dream Team said he thought Magic was the most popular athlete in the world at the time back in 1992. He said he was proven wrong when he went to Barcelona and saw a 50 foot poster of Jordan on the side of a building.

I could go on and on but in my opinion, Jordan not only changed the game of basketball, but he way so popular and so damn good at what he did that he changed the way athletes were to market themselves. He paved the way for Lebron James, Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, Venus and Serena, Yao, Shaq, Peyton Manning, and any other top athlete today.

...so yeah, I think he was the most influential.
This. Repped. He was really a precedent for the modern "hero" athlete and helped bridge a gap between basketball and middle America. "Playing for Keeps" by David Halberstam talks about this in detail.

[rfm767]

When was South America the entire "World" brah?

Just have someone not from the states tell you. Some guy from S Arabia already said the same, and i guess Europe would be even greater. This is unbiased fact man. Pele is the most influential all over the world

[rfm767]

uh thats cause Pele is from South America. Thats why the most searches for MJ come from Raleigh, NC (his alma mater)

Just have someone not from the states tell you. Some guy from S Arabia already said the same, and i guess Europe would be even greater. This is unbiased fact man. Pele is the most influential all over the world.

[Phong]

Having spent more than 20 years living in Europe (France, UK & Germany) I can say that most Europeans don't care about MJ, Tiger and their sports for that matter. Of course they know their names but they are not idolized like they are in the USA. I'm pretty sure most people, outside of the USA, have never watched Jordan play and know him simply because of his shoes.

Even with all the marketing that surrounded Jordan, even with Jordan being the basketball GOAT, soccer superstars touch a much bigger audience. Outside of the USA, Pele, Maradona, Baggio, Eusebio, Platini and Zidane have touched far more lives than Jordan ever did. It's not even close.

Even American people know that the term "World Cup" refers to soccer. That's how global that sport is. Most people don't know what the FIBA World Championship is and even less when it takes place. Most people wouldn't even know which country won it even if it's their own country who did.

But it's understandable that people who post on a basketball forum and who are mostly Americans believe that their idol is the best or most influential athlete ever.

[phoenix18]

Having spent more than 20 years living in Europe (France, UK & Germany) I can say that most Europeans don't care about MJ, Tiger and their sports for that matter. Of course they know their names but they are not idolized like they are in the USA. I'm pretty sure most people, outside of the USA, have never watched Jordan play and know him simply because of his shoes.

Even with all the marketing that surrounded Jordan, even with Jordan being the basketball GOAT, soccer superstars touch a much bigger audience. Outside of the USA, Pele, Maradona, Baggio, Eusebio, Platini and Zidane have touched far more lives than Jordan ever did. It's not even close.

But it's understandable that people who post on a basketball forum and who are mostly Americans believe that their idol is the best or most influential athlete ever.
You will have to excuse my North American brethren,they think that they have the greatest everything.

[Unreal234]

You will have to excuse my North American brethren,they think that they have the greatest everything.

Jordan didn't do zilch compared to Pele and Ali, people love to slob his knob on these boards.

[rfm767]

Having spent more than 20 years living in Europe (France, UK & Germany) I can say that most Europeans don't care about MJ, Tiger and their sports for that matter. Of course they know their names but they are not idolized like they are in the USA. I'm pretty sure most people, outside of the USA, have never watched Jordan play and know him simply because of his shoes.

Even with all the marketing that surrounded Jordan, even with Jordan being the basketball GOAT, soccer superstars touch a much bigger audience. Outside of the USA, Pele, Maradona, Baggio, Eusebio, Platini and Zidane have touched far more lives than Jordan ever did. It's not even close.

Even American people know that the term "World Cup" refers to soccer. That's how global that sport is. Most people don't know what the FIBA World Championship is and even less when it takes place. Most people wouldn't even know which country won it even if it's their own country who did.

But it's understandable that people who post on a basketball forum and who are mostly Americans believe that their idol is the best or most influential athlete ever.

repped

[rfm767]

You will have to excuse my North American brethren,they think that they have the greatest everything.

Repped for Wise

although i'm not from the states im a huge fan of USA and specially the NBA :pimp: but sometimes they are too narrow minded. Then again its understandable since its a great country and there is not much need too look outside for the average peroson wen you have almost all you need inside.

[Phong]

I used to live in Paris back in 1998 when France won the World Cup. I can tell you there was no athlete as loved and respected as Zidane. He wasn't just a fellow countryman, he was the face and pride of the entire country; he was the national hero; people were talking about him as if he was their brother, their friend and always knew him. He was more important than the President himself.

When France won, the entire country roared with the chants of the millions of people who flooded the streets and partied until the next morning. And the face of Zidane was display on the Arc De Triomphe to let him know how much he was loved and appreciated. When the whole headbutting incident occured in 2006, the entire country was still behind him and giving him their support.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8474/image1vwb.jpg

That's the type of passion that you see from soccer fans at the international or even club level. Zidane was also loved by Italians and Spaniards when he played there, and more generally by fans of the "Beautiful Game". Many other have received that type of adoration as well. Players who might be unknown to Americans but who are idolized worldwide.

For most countries, soccer is the national sport if not the only sport. And with so many practitioners and such a level of competition, winning an international competition is a very big deal and being the greatest in that sport makes your level of celebrity something unimaginable. Pel

[poido123]

Having spent more than 20 years living in Europe (France, UK & Germany) I can say that most Europeans don't care about MJ, Tiger and their sports for that matter. Of course they know their names but they are not idolized like they are in the USA. I'm pretty sure most people, outside of the USA, have never watched Jordan play and know him simply because of his shoes.

Even with all the marketing that surrounded Jordan, even with Jordan being the basketball GOAT, soccer superstars touch a much bigger audience. Outside of the USA, Pele, Maradona, Baggio, Eusebio, Platini and Zidane have touched far more lives than Jordan ever did. It's not even close.

Even American people know that the term "World Cup" refers to soccer. That's how global that sport is. Most people don't know what the FIBA World Championship is and even less when it takes place. Most people wouldn't even know which country won it even if it's their own country who did.

But it's understandable that people who post on a basketball forum and who are mostly Americans believe that their idol is the best or most influential athlete ever.

Australia knows and loves Michael Jordan, Ive watched about half of his career games, and many playoff games, so no, your statement doesn't ring true here...If your comparing soccer and basketball on the world scale, then soccer will win handsdown, played by a much larger country span than basketball is, therefore fanbase and revenue is gonna be higher too, plus all the endorsements etc...

[Phong]

Australia knows and loves Michael Jordan, Ive watched about half of his career games, and many playoff games, so no, your statement doesn't ring true here...If your comparing soccer and basketball on the world scale, then soccer will win handsdown, played by a much larger country span than basketball is, therefore fanbase and revenue is gonna be higher too, plus all the endorsements etc...
I said "MOST PEOPLE".

Btw, do you have anything to show how much "Australia loves MJ" ?

[TheAnchorman]

I'm pretty sure most people, outside of the USA, have never watched Jordan play and know him simply because of his shoes.
So I've lived in the Philippines for 11 years and visited all of Southeast Asia, and I have to tell you that Jordan's popularity around the Southeast Asian, Chinese, Philippines, Indonesian/Malayan Corridor was/is extremely high, especially during the time of his 1st comeback and after the Barcelona Games. Although Europe and South America obviously put soccer 1st and foremost, it seems as if most of East/Southeast Asia has basketball as their most popular sport, or at the very least tied with soccer. He was everywhere; games, commercials, jerseys, shoes, hell even lunchboxes to the point where I got sick of his face.

You make a good case for Pele and soccer but understand MJ was the 1st ever athlete to be marketed at such a grand scale, his rise to fame perfectly coinciding with the advent of massive sports multimedia, NBA ratings explosion, the opportunity for pros to play in the Olympics, media globalization, etc.

[poido123]

I said "MOST PEOPLE".

Btw, do you have anything to show how much "Australia loves MJ" ?

All my mates do :lol :lol

No seriously, basketball is sadly unappreciated by a majority of Australians, as we are dominated by other sports such as Aussie Rules football and Rugby League, Union, and others like soccer, swimming, cricket...Our local competition is falling apart as we speak, teams are going broke, and management dont seem to know how to run their organisations...Its sad, because while our basketball competition goes to ****, so does the popularity and recruiting talent from our country...ie Andrew Bogut, Patrick Mills Luc Longley, Andrew Gaze, Shane Heal and many others...

[kareem]

When was South America the entire "World" brah?

I personally live in near east , have traveled almost 50 countries
between europe asia and africa

Muhammad Ali

Pele

[kareem]

Mj's influence is stretches beyond basketball.


Pele might be THE most recognized (along with Ali) but I doubt either were as influential as MJ, and I don't say that lightly.

that was joke of the day
mj beyond basketball is plain whore for money .
unreal

[poido123]

that was joke of the day
mj beyond basketball is plain whore for money .
unreal

Hmm, judging by your avatar, there's no wonder you strongly detest this MJ post :lol I think people in here are just getting confused with influential America wide and influential World wide...I agree with your picks though Kareem...:cheers:

[Mor'Fiyah]

Not to forget its not just Europe and Asia, but South America, Central America, the Caribbean, Africa, etc. In all of these places football (soccer) is King and Pele is revered. Mohammed Ali also became a global icon. Jordan is right up there in terms of reknown though... but more influential than Pele? Doubt it.

[Mor'Fiyah]

I'm not saying he isn't well known, but one of the reasons that he isn't as well known is because when he was good, the sport wasn't near as popular in places like Asia and Africa. Also in asia soccer still isn't extremely popular. Plus you have the huge region of us/canada where nobody knows who he is. I only learned who he is a couple months ago, and I watch soccer all the time.

Dude. I would just stop if I were you. FOOTBALL is and has long been the most popular sport in and around the world before Pele was even playing. FOOTBALL is still the most popular sport in China and has been for a long time. It has just recently been rivaled by basketball... but even without China, football is the top sport in all of Europe, Africa, South and Central America, the Caribbean, and Africa. Basketball cannot compete with the world's game.

[chopchop20]

Muhammad Ali -- by FAR

[poido123]

Muhammad Ali -- by FAR

Do you know much about Pele?

[Mor'Fiyah]

Do you know much about Pele?

They do not. They have no idea Pele not only dominated the most popular sport in the world for decades... won the greatest tournament in the world at 17... became a United Nations Ambassador... Worked for UNESCO as a Goodwill Ambassador... created legislation in Brazil. LEGISLATION. Like the man wrote a law and got it passed. And he was knighted by the Queen of England. I mean, seriously, who comes close?

[kareem]

Hmm, judging by your avatar, there's no wonder you strongly detest this MJ post :lol I think people in here are just getting confused with influential America wide and influential World wide...I agree with your picks though Kareem...:cheers:

sorry poido i was just mad of some say ( Ali is not as influential as MJ )
ok maybe mj and pele are close , and MJ is one of GOAT if he is not the greatest

but come on Ali is on another planet

he gave up his title his money and prizes , his fame was reduced
his name was slammed and 3.5 years of his prime was lost .
then guess what? he was RIGHT and anti-vitnam war demonstrations spread usa

Muhammad Ali fought Liston, Frazier, Norton and Spinks but more importantly,
he fought against racism, intolerance and war while he fought for freedom of
religion and independent thought. he was a hero.
they have no idea what they are talking about. Ali gave up his livelihood and went to prison for what he believed in,
he believed that war is wrong. he was a courageous person of integrity
just listen
http://www.4shared.com/file/116929720/7b5ab8d2/The_Politics_of_Muhammad_Ali.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eLrJMb6wpk

MUHAMMAD ALI:THROUGH THE EYES OF THE WORLD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAVakNXBizw

peace and cheers

[SpanishACB]

True, but doesnt every basketball player aspire to be better than Jordan?

While in Soccer depending on what country you're from you have your own idol.

Maybe because soccer is the number 1 sport in several different countries and continents whilst Basketball is an American thing. Therefore, the best American player ever is obviously what basketball players want to aspire to.

[SpanishACB]

lol you were the one that was so big into your fancy graphs and charts. Like I said, with Nike having 18.0 more searches to Pele's 1.2 than don't you think the sole and founding contributor to Nike's fame deserves some credit?

http://books.google.com/books?id=tNNsesXOUVUC&pg=PA76&dq=nike+michael+jordan <-- explains how Jordan single handily transformed Nike into a global icon.

If a person knows the Nike symbol don't you think they know MJ? Even if 1 in 18.0 of those searchees recognized MJ's name then that still puts MJ 2.0 to Pele's 1.2.

And no I don't think I'm moving the goalposts because my original argument was that Nike had to be taken into account when you weighed who had more influence.

My original post on this thread:

Hahaha, such flawed kindergarten logic.

How about you do a search on "Football" or "Brazil" since Pele was a contributor to the popularity of both?

Can't you see how this is stupid?

[Butters]

pele>the world

[triangleoffense]

Hahaha, such flawed kindergarten logic.

How about you do a search on "Football" or "Brazil" since Pele was a contributor to the popularity of both?

Can't you see how this is stupid?
Hmm because one is a sport that has existed long before he was even alive and the other is a country in South America. Nike is a company that Jordan pretty much built from the ground up. If you read all my posts instead of soloing that particular one out I reference the book Michael Jordan Inc. Which explains Jordan is the single largest contributor to the company and he has been there since Nike's inception.

What's the first word that comes to you when you think Nike? Basketball shoes, Air Jordan, Michael Jordan. Guess who is responsible for that correlation? Hint:not pele.


such flawed kindergarten logic.

now now. Name calling does nothing except discredits your post. Its like the poster doesn't have enough tangible material to write down so he's grasping at whatever straws he can to discredit the other poster.

[SpanishACB]

What's the first word that comes to you when you think Nike?

Soccer shoes.

Nike is a bigger brand that Jordan. And whilst Jordan might have helped them position themsleves at number one in sports equipment Nike has become something much bigger than Michael Jordan. Heck, you take away all the basketball division and they're probably still number one in sport wear sales.

[Mor'Fiyah]

Soccer shoes.

Nike is a bigger brand that Jordan. And whilst Jordan might have helped them position themsleves at number one in sports equipment Nike has become something much bigger than Michael Jordan. Heck, you take away all the basketball division and they're probably still number one in sport wear sales.

As if brand names are the only source of influence in the world.

[truethat23]

In an attempt to put somemore perspective on this topic, I did some research and came up with a 'Top 10 Most Influential Athlete Ever' list of my own. I thought I'd share it.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Babe Ruth
4. Pele
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Jesse Owens
7. Tiger Woods
8. Billie Jean King
9. Magic Johnson
10. Johnny Unitas

Some places/sites where I did my research. Time Magazine, Forbes Magazine, ESPN/SportsCentury, Wikipedia.

[Mor'Fiyah]

In an attempt to put somemore perspective on this topic, I did some research and came up with a 'Top 10 Most Influential Athlete Ever' list of my own. I thought I'd share it.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Babe Ruth
4. Pele
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Jesse Owens
7. Tiger Woods
8. Billie Jean King
9. Magic Johnson
10. Johnny Unitas

Some places/sites where I did my research. Time Magazine, Forbes Magazine, ESPN/SportsCentury, Wikipedia.

Rubbish list. Ali, Jordan, Pele, Tiger Woods I am fine with (disagree with your order but who cares). The others are maybe the most influential athletes in the US... but the World? Playing marginal sports like baseball, and American football? Nah. How can that list not include maybe Schumacher, Phelps, Maradona, David Beckham (if you are going to put Magic might as well), Roger Federer, Carl Lewis, etc.

Seriously dude? Johnny Unitas? lol

[OneMoreSucka]

Rubbish list. Ali, Jordan, Pele, Tiger Woods I am fine with (disagree with your order but who cares). The others are maybe the most influential athletes in the US... but the World? Playing marginal sports like baseball, and American football? Nah. How can that list not include maybe Schumacher, Phelps, Maradona, David Beckham (if you are going to put Magic might as well), Roger Federer, Carl Lewis, etc.

Seriously dude? Johnny Unitas? lol
How can you not agree with Jackie Robinson? The first black player in an all white sport, which is now DOMINATED by minorites from all over the world. Are you kidding me.

[CroqueMort]

Jordan has clearly a shot he changed the game of professional sport in to a business, he was the first athlete who became a "NAME" that meant money, commercial etc...... All the athletes who earn millions because of commercial should give him a percentage.

But When it comes to the most INFLUENTIAL athlete ever !

I DON'T SEE WHO HAS BEEN MORE INFLUENTIAL THAN JACK JOHNSON

At a time of colonialism, the pseudo sciencists created a myth, but during Jack Johnson reign when it was natural to say that white people were superior both physically and mentaly to Asians, Indians, Arabs, Native Americans or African, the title of STRONGEST MAN were the property of a "sub-human" Jack Johnson.

[Mor'Fiyah]

How can you not agree with Jackie Robinson? The first black player in an all white sport, which is now DOMINATED by minorites from all over the world. Are you kidding me.

Because its baseball. Its a marginal sport. Why not just name the first black cricket player in Apartheid stricken South Africa then? The world is bigger than just the US.

[Mor'Fiyah]

Jordan has clearly a shot he changed the game of professional sport in to a business, he was the first athlete who became a "NAME" that meant money, commercial etc...... All the athletes who earn millions because of commercial should give him a percentage.

But When it comes to the most INFLUENTIAL athlete ever !

I DON'T SEE WHO HAS BEEN MORE INFLUENTIAL THAN JACK JOHNSON

At a time of colonialism, the pseudo sciencists created a myth, but during Jack Johnson reign when it was natural to say that white people were superior both physically and mentaly to Asians, Indians, Arabs, Native Americans or African, the title of STRONGEST MAN were the property of a "sub-human" Jack Johnson.

I see where you are coming from. Its hard to measure influence though. But certainly athletes like Jack Johnson and Jesse Owens had influence beyond just commercial and monetary appeal.

[truethat23]

Rubbish list. Ali, Jordan, Pele, Tiger Woods I am fine with (disagree with your order but who cares). The others are maybe the most influential athletes in the US... but the World? Playing marginal sports like baseball, and American football? Nah. How can that list not include maybe Schumacher, Phelps, Maradona, David Beckham (if you are going to put Magic might as well), Roger Federer, Carl Lewis, etc.

Seriously dude? Johnny Unitas? lol

I can agree with you about American football being a marginal sport, but I have to disagree with you about baseball. Yeah its America's favorite pastime, but it has really turned into more of an international game now.

As far as Jackie Robinson, he definitely belongs up there because he widely changed the scope of professonial baseball. Without him, there would not have been a Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, or a Ken Griffey Jr. Without Robinson, there would not been a Alex Rodriguez, Albert Puhols, or a Manny Ramireuz. That's major influence.

The same thing applies to Billie Jean King. She too changed the way people look at women's tennis, which is a world sport. Her Battle of the Sexes tennis match was extraordinary. She definitely paved the way for Venus and Serena, Sharapova, and other female players from around the globe. That's also major influence.

In my opinion, Michael Phelps is just getting started. He definitely has influence, but I wouldn't put him on the list just yet. I think there's more to come from him. Right now he's probably top 12-15. This goes for Federar as well.

David Beckham is great and I like the guy, but I don't think he compares to some of the other great names on this list, not yet anyway. Top 20, but not top 10 in my opinion.

I'll agree with putting Schumacher up there. He was one of the few that I was considering along with Jim Thorpe.

...and yeah, Johnny Unitas is debatable.

I still think I had a pretty strong list though. It's not a greatest athlete list, but a most influencial list, meaning the athletes that influenced their sport and the culture around the sport the most.

[KAJ=GOAT]

lol at these Jordan riders.

They actually think the galaxy revolves around Chicago.

Its disgusting how some americans still haven't learned theres an entire world outside of thier borders. An entire world with different cultures and customs. An entire world that doesn't give a rats ass about basketball.

They've got to be quite young, or just incredibly stupid. They act like the world has only been in existence since 1991.


They're still trying to convince people he was the best player on his college team.


"oh baby, its one two three, I love you baby honestly"

:hammertime:

[Mor'Fiyah]

I can agree with you about American football being a marginal sport, but I have to disagree with you about baseball. Yeah its America's favorite pastime, but it has really turned into more of an international game now.

As far as Jackie Robinson, he definitely belongs up there because he widely changed the scope of professonial baseball. Without him, there would not have been a Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, or a Ken Griffey Jr. Without Robinson, there would not been a Alex Rodriguez, Albert Puhols, or a Manny Ramireuz. That's major influence.

The same thing applies to Billie Jean King. She too changed the way people look at women's tennis, which is a world sport. Her Battle of the Sexes tennis match was extraordinary. She definitely paved the way for Venus and Serena, Sharapova, and other female players from around the globe. That's also major influence.

In my opinion, Michael Phelps is just getting started. He definitely has influence, but I wouldn't put him on the list just yet. I think there's more to come from him. Right now he's probably top 12-15. This goes for Federar as well.

David Beckham is great and I like the guy, but I don't think he compares to some of the other great names on this list, not yet anyway. Top 20, but not top 10 in my opinion.

I'll agree with putting Schumacher up there. He was one of the few that I was considering along with Jim Thorpe.

...and yeah, Johnny Unitas is debatable.

I still think I had a pretty strong list though. It's not a greatest athlete list, but a most influencial list, meaning the athletes that influenced their sport and the culture around the sport the most.

Baseball is still relatively marginal. Do you know who Donald Bradman or Brian Lara are? Great cricket players? The same amount of countries play cricket as baseball. :confusedshrug:

I see what you are saying with the Jackie Robinson thing... but two things:

1. I think baseball is marginal still... and definitely was marginal in Robinson's times. Robinson's sphere of influence was basically the US. He was not a world wide figure because he played baseball.

2. I am very wary of the influential tag placed on athletes who were the first because they were just chosen to be the first. Jackie Robinson wasn't even the best black player of his time... he just happened to be the one they thought had the best temperament and all around skills to be successful in that type of environment. If they hadn't chosen him it would have just been someone else. No?

[Butters]

How can you not agree with Jackie Robinson? The first black player in an all white sport, which is now DOMINATED by minorites from all over the world. Are you kidding me.


False.

[rfm767]

In an attempt to put somemore perspective on this topic, I did some research and came up with a 'Top 10 Most Influential Athlete Ever' list of my own. I thought I'd share it.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Babe Ruth
4. Pele
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Jesse Owens
7. Tiger Woods
8. Billie Jean King
9. Magic Johnson
10. Johnny Unitas

Some places/sites where I did my research. Time Magazine, Forbes Magazine, ESPN/SportsCentury, Wikipedia.

:roll: this is a USA list, if you are trying to show it as worldwide you may even be facing jail for such lies

[phoenix18]

:roll: this is a USA list, if you are trying to show it as worldwide you may even be facing jail for such lies
Again, excuse my North America brethren. They think that the world revolves around America.

[quasimoto]

In an attempt to put somemore perspective on this topic, I did some research and came up with a 'Top 10 Most Influential Athlete Ever' list of my own. I thought I'd share it.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Babe Ruth
4. Pele
5. Jackie Robinson
6. Jesse Owens
7. Tiger Woods
8. Billie Jean King
9. Magic Johnson
10. Johnny Unitas

I have no idea who 5 and 10 are. The average European probably also doesn't know about 3 and 9.

[truethat23]

Baseball is still relatively marginal. Do you know who Donald Bradman or Brian Lara are? Great cricket players? The same amount of countries play cricket as baseball. :confusedshrug:

I see what you are saying with the Jackie Robinson thing... but two things:

1. I think baseball is marginal still... and definitely was marginal in Robinson's times. Robinson's sphere of influence was basically the US. He was not a world wide figure because he played baseball.

2. I am very wary of the influential tag placed on athletes who were the first because they were just chosen to be the first. Jackie Robinson wasn't even the best black player of his time... he just happened to be the one they thought had the best temperament and all around skills to be successful in that type of environment. If they hadn't chosen him it would have just been someone else. No?

I've never heard of Donald Bradman or Brian Lara. I've definitely heard of the game cricket, but I haven't heard of these two. To be honest, I couldn't name one cricket player off the top of my head. I've never read about them in the newspaper; I've never heard about them or watched them play on TV; I've never heard about their accomplishments on SportsCenter; I've never heard about them meeting kings, queens, or presidents like I have other athletes. I'm not saying that they are not important, from what you tell me, its seems like they are, but I'd be lying if I told you that I know who they are. I could name basketball, tennis, golf, hockey, baseball, and soccer players, even swimmers and gymnast, but no cricket players...

I agree that baseball was very marginal around the time Jackie Robinson was playing and I can also agree that he wasn't even the best black player in his time; still a good player, but not the best black player.

But I don't think its fair to discredit his influence just because he was the first. Many times, when you are the first to do something, it can influence and inspire others to do it just as good or better than you did it. If not that, than it at least can open doors for future generations to showcase their abilities and fight for their place in history as the best or one of the best to do what they do.

[koBEDABEST]

ali and pele

[truethat23]

:roll: this is a USA list, if you are trying to show it as worldwide you may even be facing jail for such lies

I'm not lying. Its just my opinion. The last time I checked, I thought this was a forum where you were supposed to be welcome to share opinions.

[truethat23]

Again, excuse my North America brethren. They think that the world revolves around America.

First, I don't need you to apologize for me for anything. You don't speak for me. I speak for me.

Secondly, I absolutely DO NOT think that the world revolves around the United States of America. That's the most ignorant thing anyone could ever say. I've been living long enough to understand and acknowledge that other cultures have a great deal of knowledge and other things to share with the rest of the world.

I am and have always been totally open to any opinions or insight other people have to offer, if they are from the U.S. or not. All I did was try to open the discussion up a little by offering some other names that I thought would be good to discuss besides just Michael Jordan. If you have names of other athletes from other countries that you think should be discussed, then share it. Simple as that! Thats why its called a 'forum.'

[Mor'Fiyah]

I've never heard of Donald Bradman or Brian Lara. I've definitely heard of the game cricket, but I haven't heard of these two. To be honest, I couldn't name one cricket player off the top of my head. I've never read about them in the newspaper; I've never heard about them or watched them play on TV; I've never heard about their accomplishments on SportsCenter; I've never heard about them meeting kings, queens, or presidents like I have other athletes. I'm not saying that they are not important, from what you tell me, its seems like they are, but I'd be lying if I told you that I know who they are. I could name basketball, tennis, golf, hockey, baseball, and soccer players, even swimmers and gymnast, but no cricket players...

I agree that baseball was very marginal around the time Jackie Robinson was playing and I can also agree that he wasn't even the best black player in his time; still a good player, but not the best black player.

But I don't think its fair to discredit his influence just because he was the first. Many times, when you are the first to do something, it can influence and inspire others to do it just as good or better than you did it. If not that, than it at least can open doors for future generations to showcase their abilities and fight for their place in history as the best or one of the best to do what they do.

I guess my point was that because you are in the US you have never heard of SIR Donald Bradman (arguably the greatest cricket player ever who was Australian and knighted by the Queen of England). Similarly, people in other parts of the world don't know who Jackie Robinson is or can't name a single baseball player because of where they grew up. Jacki Robinson was not a world level phenomenon. My second point was that even though he was the first black player in the major leagues, he was never the greatest player in baseball. He was merely the first and even that was chosen for him. Its not like he forced the issue the way Jack Johnson and Jesse Owens forced it. I am not trying to belittle Jackie Robinson's accomplishments. He's a legend no doubt... but I don't think he stands in the same league as a Jack Johnson who followed the world heavy weight champion, who refused to fight him, around while beating the crap out of everyone else, took the title from a non-American fighter and forced the "superior" whites to have to fight him to get the belt back creating the search for a "great white hope" all of whom he beat soundly so much so that they refused to record or show the ends of those fights because he embarrassed these white fighters. Or Jesse Owens who went to Germany and beat Hitlers "superior" athletes down into the ground setting the record for most gold medals by an individual in track and field, the hardest sport to get one gold medal in much less four, even though he wasn't allowed to train with the US white athletes or use the same elevators as whites in the US (ironically there were no such restrictions in Nazi Germany).

[Mor'Fiyah]

First, I don't need you to apologize for me for anything. You don't speak for me. I speak for me.

Secondly, I absolutely DO NOT think that the world revolves around the United States of America. That's the most ignorant thing anyone could ever say. I've been living long enough to understand and acknowledge that other cultures have a great deal of knowledge and other things to share with the rest of the world.

I am and have always been totally open to any opinions or insight other people have to offer, if they are from the U.S. or not. All I did was try to open the discussion up a little by offering some other names that I thought would be good to discuss besides just Michael Jordan. If you have names of other athletes from other countries that you think should be discussed, then share it. Simple as that! Thats why its called a 'forum.'

Agreed. I think the misunderstanding stemmed from your implications that the top ten influential athletes in the world were all American with the exception of Pele, and included athletes from pre-dominantly American sports like Unitas.

[truethat23]

I guess my point was that because you are in the US you have never heard of SIR Donald Bradman (arguably the greatest cricket player ever who was Australian and knighted by the Queen of England). Similarly, people in other parts of the world don't know who Jackie Robinson is or can't name a single baseball player because of where they grew up. Jacki Robinson was not a world level phenomenon. My second point was that even though he was the first black player in the major leagues, he was never the greatest player in baseball. He was merely the first and even that was chosen for him. Its not like he forced the issue the way Jack Johnson and Jesse Owens forced it. I am not trying to belittle Jackie Robinson's accomplishments. He's a legend no doubt... but I don't think he stands in the same league as a Jack Johnson who followed the world heavy weight champion, who refused to fight him, around while beating the crap out of everyone else, took the title from a non-American fighter and forced the "superior" whites to have to fight him to get the belt back creating the search for a "great white hope" all of whom he beat soundly so much so that they refused to record or show the ends of those fights because he embarrassed these white fighters. Or Jesse Owens who went to Germany and beat Hitlers "superior" athletes down into the ground setting the record for most gold medals by an individual in track and field, the hardest sport to get one gold medal in much less four, even though he wasn't allowed to train with the US white athletes or use the same elevators as whites in the US (ironically there were no such restrictions in Nazi Germany).


I don't think they do a lot of reporting on cricket here if I'm not mistaken. I'm a sports fan, not just a basketball fan and I seldom hear about them. But thanks for educating me on that though. I didn't know Bradman got knighted by the Queen of England. Even though I'm American, I still know that being knighted by the Queen of England is a pretty big deal. I just never heard of them, thats all; not because I'm American and think that the world revolves around us, but because no one ever informed me about their accomplishments, until now.


Oh, I absolutely agree with you about Jackie Robinson and baseball during his time. Robinson isn't the greatest baseball player of all time nor was he the best in his era. I'm with you on that. But despite if he was the greatest or not, which we already agree that he wasn't, even if he was chosen, he definitely made an enormous impact on the game of baseball in my opinion. It also helps that he was good too.

I actually wouldn't mind putting Jack Johnson on the list either. I know about him. Jesse Owens was already on my list.

[chopchop20]

Do you know much about Pele?

Have you heard of the "Thriller in Manilla" or the "Rumble in the Jungle"? Ali was embraced on a world-wide level like no athlete before or since.

Have you ever seen an athlete of his scale to take such a political stand as he did against Vietnam?

[gengiskhan]

Another Absolutely "GOAT" thread of ISH:

This is not about MJ being the greatest "PLAYER" ever.

Question is

"IS MJ THE MOST INFLUENTIAL "ATHLETE" EVER ?"

Kobe copied MJ leaner dunks.

Wade copied MJ one legged tomohawk dunks on breakaway.

Lebron copied the least but probably breakaway almost FT line dunks.

But Dr.J was already doing these & influenced MJ so MJ might actually 2nd best.

But lot of reverse lay ups & finishing around the rim by kobe, wade, durant, LBJ, rose, T-Mac etc etc has been very "michael jordanisque" if you ask me with lot less athleticism.

[Doctor Rivers]

Another Absolutely "GOAT" thread of ISH:

This is not about MJ being the greatest "PLAYER" ever.

Question is

"IS MJ THE MOST INFLUENTIAL "ATHLETE" EVER ?"

Kobe copied MJ leaner dunks.

Wade copied MJ one legged tomohawk dunks on breakaway.

Lebron copied the least but probably breakaway almost FT line dunks.

But Dr.J was already doing these & influenced MJ so MJ might actually 2nd best.

But lot of reverse lay ups & finishing around the rim by kobe, wade, durant, LBJ, rose, T-Mac etc etc has been very "michael jordanisque" if you ask me with lot less athleticism.

Kobe

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Have you heard of the "Thriller in Manilla" or the "Rumble in the Jungle"? Ali was embraced on a world-wide level like no athlete before or since.

Have you ever seen an athlete of his scale to take such a political stand as he did against Vietnam?
this.
Pele is a great choice too.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

also, Jesse Owens made a big statement....as big as gets.