MJ: Kobe is the greatest player since me

[Game]

http://www.wfnz.com/episode_download.php?contentType=36&contentId=3755059

[DCL]

his voice sounds like his dog died, the tone is so deflated.

[stephanieg]

If in 10 years there's a really good big man and a really good perimeter player who do you think Shaq will say is the greatest player since him? Conceited bastards.

[Manute for Ever!]

Do we need a thread every time a current or former player praises Kobe?

[blacknapalm]

he also said kobe isn't the best laker ever, so take it for what it's worth

[OldSchoolBBall]

Shaq and Duncan are easily (and I mean "easily") the best players since MJ retired, Shaq especially. Not sure what Jordan was smoking. Best perimeter player since him, sure.

[RoseCity07]

I wonder what he thinks about Duncan 4 rings as the number 1 option.

[andgar923]

He also said he wanted to slap Van Gundy for saying Kobe was the best Laker ever.

Then he went on to rank them:

Kareem
Magic
Worthy

He stopped at that point.

[DCpup]

On Lebron..."I don't think he'll play more than 5 or 6 more years."

He really let Bron have it in that interview.

[IInvented]

Check out the thread starter.. :lol

[ImmortalD24]

He sounds really drunk.. or it's an impersonator. Something is up.

[lakerfreak]

he also said kobe isn't the best laker ever, so take it for what it's worth

Yes but the greatest laker players didn't come after Jordan they came before.

[TryToBeUnbias]

jordan said something must be wrong smh ppl wow...then they use a previous statement to try and justify this one like he might have not changed his opinion

[monkeypox]

Wow, who knew Jordan was such a Kobe stan. I'm surprised he was able to talk in the interview, what with Kobe's genitals in his mouth the whole time. Everyone knows Kobe's barely a superstar anymore and was only better than t-mac and VC because those guys got injured and Kobe never did. They shouldn't allow stupid people like that one the radio.

[lakerfreak]

Its really funny when the greatest player to ever play, comes out and says that Kobe is the best since him, gets jumped on by all the haters and say he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Basketball fans are the most delusional people in the world.

[andgar923]

Wow, who knew Jordan was such a Kobe stan. I'm surprised he was able to talk in the interview, what with Kobe's genitals in his mouth the whole time. Everyone knows Kobe's barely a superstar anymore and was only better than t-mac and VC because those guys got injured and Kobe never did. They shouldn't allow stupid people like that one the radio.

Kobe got hurt as well, just not as serious as Tmac. And neither VC nor Tmac worked as hard or wanted to be as great as Kobe.

VC and Tmac had a higher 'potential' than Kobe, they just didn't want it as badly. You've gotta give Kobe at least that.

I do believe that Kobe hasn't been better than them for his entire career. I think VC and Tmac at some stage of their careers were slightly better than Kobe.

But even then.... MJ would say that Kobe played better defense than VC. Not sure what he thought about Tmac tho.

[blacknapalm]

well, MJ also said lebron could go down as the GOAT. the point being is he's inconsistent at best. i don't undersand why everyone has to be labeled a "stan" or "hater", as if everything is so black & white.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Kobe got hurt as well, just not as serious as Tmac. And neither VC nor Tmac worked as hard or wanted to be as great as Kobe.

VC and Tmac had a higher 'potential' than Kobe, they just didn't want it as badly. You've gotta give Kobe at least that.

I do believe that Kobe hasn't been better than them for his entire career. I think VC and Tmac at some stage of their careers were slightly better than Kobe.

But even then.... MJ would say that Kobe played better defense than VC. Not sure what he thought about Tmac tho.
It was sarcasm. Hopefully.

[JustinJDW]

I disagree.

The best player since Jordan has more than just 1 Ring as the #1 Man.

[KingLeBronJames]

Now with this interview. BruceBlitz is on suicide watch. :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

Hey Jordan, this guy was a lot better than Kobe ever was.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040418/040418_shaq_vmed_7a.widec.jpg

Don't forget that he was challening MJ for the best player in the league title during Jordan's last year or 2 with the Bulls, but injuries prevented it from really being a debate. Hell prime Shaq is closer to Jordan's level than he is to Kobe's level. I think Loki even said that Shaq's prime is up there with Jordan's.

And Duncan had a better peak than Kobe and a better career. Lets see Kobe carry the 2003 Spurs to a championship and have a near quadruple double in the clinching game.

I like Kobe, but he sometimes gets ridiculously overrated. He seriously doesn't even have an argument for best player of the post Jordan era.

[snipes12]

o cmon ... kwame brown and adam morrison is the result of your bad choices
we dont believe you mj

[JustinJDW]

Hey Jordan, this guy was a lot better than Kobe ever was.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040418/040418_shaq_vmed_7a.widec.jpg

Don't forget that he was challening MJ for the best player in the league title during Jordan's last year or 2 with the Bulls, but injuries prevented it from really being a debate. Hell prime Shaq is closer to Jordan's level than he is to Kobe's level. I think Loki even said that Shaq's prime is up there with Jordan's.

And Duncan had a better peak than Kobe and a better career. Lets see Kobe carry the 2003 Spurs to a championship and have a near quadruple double in the clinching game.

I like Kobe, but he sometimes gets ridiculously overrated. He seriously doesn't even have an argument for best player of the post Jordan era.I couldn't agree more. :cheers:

[Durant35]

I respect Jordan's Opinion, but Shaq and Duncan are the 2 best players in the Post Jordan Era because they won the NBA Finals MVP award three times in their career.

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan and then Shaq.

Kobe is 4th behind KG

[EMERE]

See this is what i don't get. "Jordan" the best ever gives props to Kobe and people start saying he doesn't mean it, thats what i hate about jordan stans, they think people should only praise Jordan well guess what that's not the case.

[lbj23clutch]

So he also said Lebron has a chance to be the GOAT, which I personally think is completely delusional to say from the GOAT himself.


So I wouldn't take this too highly Laker fans. :D

[Godfather]

Yes but the greatest laker players didn't come after Jordan they came before.

You idiot.

THE BIG ARISTOTLE.

I hate these Lakers fans too young to have witnessed the early 00's.

[ShaqAttack3234]

You idiot.

THE BIG ARISTOTLE.

I hate these Lakers fans too young to have witnessed the early 00's.

Yeah, I'm sure if they had witnessed Shaq dropping 40/20 games in the playoffs, backing down top defenders and dunking on them like it was nothing, using his great black tornado spin move, make consistently good, sometimes great passes, blocking shots and scaring everyone away from the paint and dominating the boards then I'm sure it'd be obvious to them that Shaq was a lot better than Kobe. I can't believe some people are either so young or have such a bad memory that they've forgotten about how Shaq tore apart the league.

[Fatal9]

Maybe he meant 2003 onwards? :confusedshrug:

If not, Jordan's ability to judge talent/players is even worse than I thought.

[Godfather]

Maybe he meant 2003 onwards? :confusedshrug:

If not, Jordan's ability to judge talent/players is even worse than I thought.

Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison?

[lbj23clutch]

According to MJ, Kwame Brown was the best player of the 2001 draft.


http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/images/2007/10/04/fullj.jpg

[wang4three]

o cmon ... kwame brown and adam morrison is the result of your bad choices
we dont believe you mj

He didn't really draft Adam Morrison.

[KenneBell]

Wow, who knew Jordan was such a Kobe stan. I'm surprised he was able to talk in the interview, what with Kobe's genitals in his mouth the whole time. Everyone knows Kobe's barely a superstar anymore and was only better than t-mac and VC because those guys got injured and Kobe never did. They shouldn't allow stupid people like that one the radio.
Agreed.

[amfirst]

:lol
Hey Jordan, this guy was a lot better than Kobe ever was.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040418/040418_shaq_vmed_7a.widec.jpg

Don't forget that he was challening MJ for the best player in the league title during Jordan's last year or 2 with the Bulls, but injuries prevented it from really being a debate. Hell prime Shaq is closer to Jordan's level than he is to Kobe's level. I think Loki even said that Shaq's prime is up there with Jordan's.

And Duncan had a better peak than Kobe and a better career. Lets see Kobe carry the 2003 Spurs to a championship and have a near quadruple double in the clinching game.

I like Kobe, but he sometimes gets ridiculously overrated. He seriously doesn't even have an argument for best player of the post Jordan era.


He said best player, not biggest muscles. Shaq gots his flaws. Put prime Ben Wallace on him and he is not as effective.

[DonDadda59]

Its really funny when the greatest player to ever play, comes out and says that Kobe is the best since him, gets jumped on by all the haters and say he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Basketball fans are the most delusional people in the world.

And Jerry West, one of the all time great players AND talent evaluators, said Lebron had already surpassed Kobe as the best in the world at age 24, the Kobe brigade worldwide went berserk, to the point West semi-contracted his statements. :oldlol:

Love MJ to death for what he did on the court, but as a talent scout/evaluator... he leaves much to be desired. This is the guy who had a hand in drafting Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison, two of the biggest busts in recent memory. Also was the guy who doubted Lebron would have a big impact on the league back in '03.

Anyone with half a brain realizes the real debate is between Duncan and Shaq, I think the hype to find the 'next Jordan' has seriously tainted people's perspective... even Jordan himself. He probably considers Kobe the closest to his style of play, therefore he's the next 'me', ie the best player.

It's just opinion, not an official ranking that everyone should adhere to. Jordan is the GOAT player, not talent scout.

[Godfather]

:lol


He said best player, not biggest muscles. Shaq gots his flaws. Put prime Ben Wallace on him and he is not as effective.

You are a ****ing idiot.

In the 2004 Finals Shaq was as efficient as **** forcing the entire Piston's front line to play hack a Shaq.

Kobe on the other hand had a terrible series and was guarded by Rip Hamilton and TPrince (a combined total of how many DPOYs to Ben's 4?)

[amfirst]

You are a ****ing idiot.

In the 2004 Finals Shaq was as efficient as **** forcing the entire Piston's front line to play hack a Shaq.

Kobe on the other hand had a terrible series and was guarded by Rip Hamilton and TPrince (a combined total of how many DPOYs to Ben's 4?)

Doesn't matter if he has high shooting percentage when the ball gets knock out of his hands everytime. Sure Kobe starter chucking, but that's because Shaq was defended well in the paint.

[DonDadda59]

Doesn't matter if he has high shooting percentage when the ball gets knock out of his hands everytime. Sure Kobe starter chucking, but that's because Shaq was defended well in the paint.

Did you even watch that series? :wtf:

[juju151111]

Doesn't matter if he has high shooting percentage when the ball gets knock out of his hands everytime. Sure Kobe starter chucking, but that's because Shaq was defended well in the paint.
:lol Exposed you didn't watch ****. WTF are you talking about?:roll:

[NBASTATMAN]

Its really funny when the greatest player to ever play, comes out and says that Kobe is the best since him, gets jumped on by all the haters and say he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Basketball fans are the most delusional people in the world.



Mj has also been quoted as saying lebron will bE THE best ever... Mj is the goat but his judge of talent has never been great.. Still Kobe is the best all around player since MJ.... Not the best player.. SHAQ IS BY FAR THE BEST SINCE MJ... Duncan is second.. Kobe is third and first in the all around area... Lebron and Wade cannot be put on that level yet..

[Allstar24]

Its really funny when the greatest player to ever play, comes out and says that Kobe is the best since him, gets jumped on by all the haters and say he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Basketball fans are the most delusional people in the world.
+1

And it's not as if his statement is nonsensical, I'm sure most of the basketball universe would agree with him.

[KenneBell]

Mj has also been quoted as saying lebron will bE THE best ever...
No he didn't.

[NBASTATMAN]

Duncan and then Shaq.

Kobe is 4th behind KG


.. Kobe deserves 3rd place.. Unless KG wins another title.. Than you can debate it.. As of now, Kobe is third ... MY OPINION

[NBASTATMAN]

No he didn't.



Oh yes he has.. Ask others... Mj said Lebron would go down as the GOAT.. Still Mj's ability to judge talent has never been that great.. Wade isthe man.....

[DonDadda59]

Mj has also been quoted as saying lebron will bE THE best ever... Mj is the goat but his judge of talent has never been great.. Still Kobe is the best all around player since MJ.... Not the best player.. SHAQ IS BY FAR THE BEST SINCE MJ... Duncan is second.. Kobe is third and first in the all around area... Lebron and Wade cannot be put on that level yet..

In terms of best all around, I always gave my vote to KG. Just a personal opinion though.

[LAClipsFan33]

I would vote for Shaq

[KenneBell]

Oh yes he has.. Ask others... Mj said Lebron would go down as the GOAT.. Still Mj's ability to judge talent has never been that great.. Wade isthe man.....
No he didn't. He said LeBron had the potential to be GOAT.

[NBASTATMAN]

In terms of best all around, I always gave my vote to KG. Just a personal opinion though.



I can deal with that.. ...Kg and Kobe are darn close.. Kg much more dominant defensively and kobe the more dominant offensive player... Still Kobe would be my choice.. Very Slim margin.

[NBASTATMAN]

No he didn't. He said LeBron had the potential to be GOAT.



Ok.... Maybe you are correct... Jerry West a much better judge of talent has stated that Lebron is better than Kobe and is the only guy that has a chance to surpass MJ.. They alll still have to get it done on the court...

[Knoe Itawl]

Regardless of what Jordan said, ONLY Kobe Fanatics will say he's been better than Shaq and Duncan.

[DC Zephyrs]

I don't see how you can make a case for Kobe over Shaq or Duncan.

[Point God]

This is fake tho.

[Game]

I'm gonna take Jordan's opinion over a bunch of 5'7 white boys who can't play ball at all.

[DonDadda59]

I'm gonna take Jordan's opinion over a bunch of 5'7 white boys who can't play ball at all.

But I'm sure you disagree with Jerry West, does he count as a 5'7" white boy? :oldlol:



WASHINGTON -- LeBron James is the best player in the NBA, surpassing veteran Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, 14-time All-Star guard Jerry West said Monday.

West, a shrewd judge of talent who brought Bryant to the Lakers when he was their general manager, said the Cleveland Cavaliers forward could become the league's next Michael Jordan.

"I look at Cleveland [and] say to myself, 'How many games could they win without LeBron James?'" West told Reuters in an interview. "That's how great he is.

"He has a chance to be arguably the greatest player ever to play the game."

West, the NBA's executive of the year with the Lakers in 1995 and the Memphis Grizzlies in 2004, said playing both ends of the floor was what made Jordan so great.

"Michael Jordan was the best defensive player in the league but he was also the best offensive player," said West. "It wasn't a one-year fluke, he proved it over time.

"LeBron James will do the same type of things because he's getting better. He's a much more effective shooter. When's he's making his shots from the outside, you can't play him.

"He's just too big, too strong, too quick. And he has incredible body control. But more than that, he's a great teammate. You can see his teammates love him."

West told Bloomberg Television in an interview that starting a team with James is a "no-brainer."

"If you look at basketball today, it's not always the big guys that win for you, it's the intermediate-size guys," West said, according to Bloomberg. "[He] can play four positions if you ask him to do so, and his ability to get everyone involved in the game is just remarkable for someone his age. I don't know if there's a better athlete I've ever seen play professional basketball."


James averaged 28.4 points this season and was named the NBA's MVP. But Bryant, a three-time NBA champion and 2008 MVP, still remains a force, said West.

"If I had to have somebody make a last-second shot, it would be Kobe Bryant," said West, architect of the great Lakers teams from the Magic Johnson years in the 1980s through the Shaquille O'Neal-led teams earlier this decade.

"But even though it's hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player."

-ESPN

[Game]

But I'm sure you disagree with Jerry West, does he count as a 5'7" white boy?

Considering that old man took it back a week later, I forgive him.

[mendozatheman]

Yeh but shaq needed first ballot hall of famers and imho two of the greatest sg's on his team to win ALL 4 rings.

[chitownsfinest]

But I'm sure you disagree with Jerry West, does he count as a 5'7" white boy? :oldlol:
Not trying to take game's/cantstops side or anything, but he stated Kobe is better later. Jerry West has also made claims such as KB being the most skilled player ever and top 5 GOAT I believe as well.

[D-Rose]

Everyone loves the asterisks don't they?

Then I guess Duncan only has 2 titles because his first title was in a 50 game season and facing an 8 seed without their best player in the Finals. Can you imagine facing the Jazz without Deron Williams in the Finals? Then you have 2007 when the league basically handed them the WCF, not to mention Duncan wasn't Finals MVP.

Kobe's first year he was clearly a sidekick but the next two years, he was damn elite, Top 3 player in the league. Averaged 29/7/6 in the 2nd title run. In the 2nd round he averaged 35/9/4 and in the WCF he averaged 33/7/7, had games of 48 and 16 and 45 and 10. In 2002 he averaged 26/7/5 in the playoffs and similar in the Finals.

Kobe has been the best player amongst the 3 since 2006 because of both Shaq and Duncan declining. So, I don't see how you can at least argue Kobe is the best player in the span of the last 11 or so years since Jordan has left. He's been a superstar all but two seasons since Jordan left.

Can't even say Kobe is a loser, everytime he has had good teammates, the team has won. Since getting Gasol, he's taken LA to two Finals in two seasons. 2004 would definetly hurt Kobe but still 3 titles in a row with Shaq and his incredible 02-03 season, he's a winner.

Kobe needs an all-star big man, Shaq needs an all-star 2 also, everyone needs adequate help to win it all.

It's all about perception too, the media portrays Kobe as the best since Mike. Shaq at his peak has been the best player but after the first 5 years or so, he hasn't been the best. Duncan obviously never gets the flashy media attention.

Personally, I'd have Kobe at 2 with Shaq/Duncan at 1a/1b but I'm saying Kobe has a good case.

[DonDadda59]

Not trying to take game's/cantstops side or anything, but he stated Kobe is better later. Jerry West has also made claims such as KB being the most skilled player ever and top 5 GOAT I believe as well.

He only semi-took it back when he heard Kobe's 'feelings were hurt'. He was being honest at first, giving his evaluation as one of the greatest talent scouts ever, ESPN printed the story and there was an uproar from the ******gers colony and Kobe was sad so he changed his story.

[Game]

He only semi-took it back when he heard Kobe's 'feelings were hurt'. He was being honest at first, giving his evaluation as one of the greatest talent scouts ever, ESPN printed the story and there was an uproar from the ******gers colony and Kobe was sad so he changed his story.

WTF?

Show me a link of Kobe saying he was sad.

Haha, dudes going way too far in this make believe sh!t.

[Phong]

He only semi-took it back when he heard Kobe's 'feelings were hurt'. He was being honest at first, giving his evaluation as one of the greatest talent scouts ever, ESPN printed the story and there was an uproar from the ******gers colony and Kobe was sad so he changed his story.
Didn't he make those comments when the Cavs were cruising through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs while the Lakers were struggling with the Rockets?

Could have been his way to motivate Kobe.

[Niquesports]

Its really funny when the greatest player to ever play, comes out and says that Kobe is the best since him, gets jumped on by all the haters and say he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Basketball fans are the most delusional people in the world.


Kobe may or may not be the GOAT since Jordan but why are we taking his OP
isnt he the Guy that drafted Kwame Brown with the NO 1 this shows his ability to judge talent

[ShaqAttack3234]

Maybe he meant 2003 onwards? :confusedshrug:

That's the only logical explanation.


Yeh but shaq needed first ballot hall of famers and imho two of the greatest sg's on his team to win ALL 4 rings.

After Shaq's regular season averages of 30/14/4/3/57% which put him 1st in scoring and FG%, 2nd in rebounding, 3rd in blocks and his playoff averages of 31/15/3/2/57% look at how big the dropoff was.

Outside of Kobe, who did he have on those Laker teams? 32 year old Glen Rice in 2000? Yeah Rice averaged 16 ppg during the regular season but he was one-dimensional, shot 43% and didn't even provide his usual 3 point production. He shot his 4th lowest % while taking an usually low 2.9 3's per game. And not surprisingly his production dropped to 12 ppg and 41% in the playoffs. He Simply wasn't a good fit.

The other 2 starters were A.C Green and Ron Harper who were each 36 and combined for 12 ppg while Harper shot under 40%.

The usually reliable role players? Horry was alright in his limited minutes, but didn't do much offensively(5.7 ppg) and Fisher shot a horrendous 34.6% from the field and just 31.3% on 3's. Rick Fox? Probably his worst season during the 3peat, sure he played limited minutes, but he wasn't too efficient when he was on the floor(41% from the floor, 33% on 3's). He played good defense as always, but certainly not any better than your average bench player that season. Brian Shaw shot 38% too.

Even Kobe wasn't quite Kobe yet. He was a damn good player don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't call him a dominant player. More like a damn good 2nd option. He averaged 22.5 ppg, 6 and 5 on 47% from the field, but he wasn't as much of a 3 point threat yet(32% on about 2 attempts per game). And his production also dropped in the playoffs to 21.1, 4.5 and 4.4 on 44% shooting. Shaq led the Lakers to a 12-3 record in the games that he played and Kobe missed during the regular season.

In the finals Shaq truly carried the Lakers averaging 38 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.7 bpg and 61.1% shooting. His second option Kobe basically played just 4 games and due to injuries/ineffectiveness averaged only 15.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 4.2 apg on 36.7% shooting. With the exception of game 4, Kobe simply wasn't good that series. In fact he was awful. How about the 3rd option, Glen Rice? Once again Rice was M.I.A. 11.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg and 2 apg on 40% shooting.

Shaq opened up the series with a 43/19/4/3 game on 68% shooting. The next game with Kobe only playing 9 minutes and scoring just 2 points, Shaq put up 40/24/4/3 on just 18 shots. And in Kobe's big game 4 Shaq was the guy who was best throughout the game with 36 and 21. Plus Shaq closed out the series on 41/12/4. Now that's dominance.

I don't care who Shaq played with on paper, his 2000 season and championship is as impressive as anyone's.

Then in 2001 the team was basically the same minus Rice and plus 35 year old Horace Grant. And while Shaq and Kobe were a great duo, Shaq did lead them to an 11-3 record without Kobe and Fisher didn't even play 1/4 of the season while Horry shot under 39% and was useless in the regular season, Brian Shaw again shot under 40% and Harper missed 35 games and barely played in the playoffs.

Basically outside of Shaq and Kobe the Lakers had 2 reliable players all season, the very limited Horace Grant and Rick Fox. Fox was a great all around role player though.

In 2002 aside from Shaq and Kobe they had Fox and Fisher as pretty good role players and Robert Horry who did hit a lot of clutch shots in the playoffs(but shot under 40% in the regular season, but then Devean George, Samaki Walker and Lindsey Hunter(38% shooter). :oldlol: Hell, Fisher dropped down to 35.7% from the field in the playoffs, so how reliable was he then?

While Shaq had one of the best second options ever with the Lakers, he didn't play on stacked teams.

In 2006 Shaq was a great second option(20/9/2/2/60% and 31 mpg) and he played with one of the best players in the league, Dwyane Wade. They played with some veterans who were pretty good players at that point like Jason Williams and Antoine Walker. Udonis Haslem was a decent player, but not a great starting PF by any stretch. Alonzo Mourning was an excellent backup center and James Posey was a good defender/3 point shooter and Gary Payton I guess provided some leadership. A team with a good 1-2 punch and some pretty good role players is nothing that unusual.

Shaq has often been paired with another great player, but very rarely has he played on a truly stacked team.


Kobe has been the best player amongst the 3 since 2006 because of both Shaq and Duncan declining. So, I don't see how you can at least argue Kobe is the best player in the span of the last 11 or so years since Jordan has left. He's been a superstar all but two seasons since Jordan left.

Kobe over Duncan was defintley debatable in 2007, but even if Kobe has been better for 3 or 4 seasons what about the 7 or 8 seasons before that? Shaq and Duncan each had better peaks too.

[NBASTATMAN]

Didn't he make those comments when the Cavs were cruising through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs while the Lakers were struggling with the Rockets?

Could have been his way to motivate Kobe.



Hmmm.. Maybe Mj is trying to motivate Lebron, with his comments...

[EMERE]

"He only semi-took it back when he heard Kobe's 'feelings were hurt'"-DOndada :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: that had me laughing. Your nice at making things up bro.

[Bodhi]

You are a ****ing idiot.

In the 2004 Finals Shaq was as efficient as **** forcing the entire Piston's front line to play hack a Shaq.

Do people who perpetuate this myth realize that in order for a center to score a lot of points, he has to work to get open from the player guarding him so someone can pass him the ball. Shaq didn't get a lot of shots because the Lakers had a lot of trouble feeding him the ball without Ben Wallace knocking it out of his hands.

Or do you think Kobe was actually taking the inbound pass, dribbling up the court, and shooting without anyone else touching the ball every possession.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Do people who perpetuate this myth realize that in order for a center to score a lot of points, he has to work to get open from the player guarding him so someone can pass him the ball. Shaq didn't get a lot of shots because the Lakers had a lot of trouble feeding him the ball without Ben Wallace knocking it out of his hands.

Or do you think Kobe was actually taking the inbound pass, dribbling up the court, and shooting without anyone else touching the ball every possession.

Anyway you put it Kobe took too many shots. He scored 22.5 ppg, but shot just 38.1% and took 22.5 shots per game and averaged just 2.8 rpg and 4.4 apg. He was absolutley awful. If you don't average more points than shots then you need to stop shooting so much and it's not like he was mostly taking good shots. He took a lot of bad contested shots vs Prince.

Shaq wasn't getting denied the ball that much, in fact the defense vs Shaq wasn't that tough and it was usually single coverage which is why he averaged 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg and 63.1 FG% on just 16.8 FGA. He simply didn't get enough touches.

And to the poster who said Shaq kept getting the ball knocked out of his hands, he averaged 2.8 turnovers in over 42 mpg. That's not bad at all. Kobe on the otherhand averaged 3.6 turnovers.

[NBASTATMAN]

"He only semi-took it back when he heard Kobe's 'feelings were hurt'"-DOndada :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: that had me laughing. Your nice at making things up bro.


Jerry West really didn't take it back.. He tried... But he spoke what he believed the first time.. The second time he spoke with Kobe feelings in his mind... Either way both are great... EMERE IS SOMEONE IN DISGUISE..... WHO?

[Bodhi]

Anyway you put it Kobe took too many shots. He scored 22.5 ppg, but shot just 38.1% and took 22.5 shots per game and averaged just 2.8 rpg and 4.4 apg. He was absolutley awful. If you don't average more points than shots then you need to stop shooting so much and it's not like he was mostly taking good shots. He took a lot of bad contested shots vs Prince.

Shaq wasn't getting denied the ball that much, in fact the defense vs Shaq wasn't that tough and it was usually single coverage which is why he averaged 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg and 63.1 FG% on just 16.8 FGA. He simply didn't get enough touches.

And to the poster who said Shaq kept getting the ball knocked out of his hands, he averaged 2.8 turnovers in over 42 mpg. That's not bad at all. Kobe on the otherhand averaged 3.6 turnovers.

I'm responding to the people who claim that the Lakers should have gone to Shaq every possession and they would have won.

Watch game 5, they go to Shaq every time he's open but a lot of possessions he simply isn't open for a pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGdXhTDEl7s&feature=related

The real culprit was Malone's injury and the lack of decent role players.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm responding to the people who claim that the Lakers should have gone to Shaq every possession and they would have won.

Watch game 5, they go to Shaq every time he's open but a lot of possessions he simply isn't open for a pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGdXhTDEl7s&feature=related

The real culprit was Malone's injury and the lack of decent role players.

Malone's injury was huge. He was a perfect fit on that team, Payton wasn't though. But Kobe's chucking was a huge factor.

[DonDadda59]

"He only semi-took it back when he heard Kobe's 'feelings were hurt'"-DOndada :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: that had me laughing. Your nice at making things up bro.

Why do these random clowns address me like I'm running a charity, 'feed the trolls'?

It was no secret, Kobe heard the comments and there were unofficial reports and hearsay that he took them personally, as if they were a shot at him, especially more poignant since West was his mentor. Now there was never a direct statement from Kobe on the matter beyond the usual 'healthy competition is good, blah blah blah'. But obviously West wanted to make it clear that he never intended to personally attack Kobe:


Jerry West, the man responsible for bringing Kobe Bryant to the Lakers in a 1996 draft-day trade, basically retracted his comments last week that Cleveland forward LeBron James had passed Bryant as the game's best player. "I said something that I wish I wouldn't have said, to be honest with you, because it was in no way demeaning to Kobe Bryant," West said in a recent interview on "The Jim Rome Show." "I love his passion. I want him to win a championship without Shaquille O'Neal because I think it would vindicate him in some respect. If I had to watch a player play, there's about four players I would pay to see play on a regular basis, and Kobe Bryant certainly would be at the top of that list. Late in the game, who are you going to take to make a shot, who are you going to take in the last quarter of a game? Kobe Bryant's still the best in the league."

-Los Angeles Times


And he said Kobe's still the best in the league in the last moments of a game (not true), which is the same exact thing he said when he let everyone know he thinks Lebron's the best in the game.

[Bodhi]

Malone's injury was huge. He was a perfect fit on that team, Payton wasn't though. But Kobe's chucking was a huge factor.

Yeah, Payton struggled with the triangle. I don't think Kobe's shooting was nearly as big a factor as it's made out to be. The entire team struggled to create shots that series. If he wasn't taking those bad shots it would have been someone else forcing up a shot. It was a factor and 2004 was certainly his worst finals performance, but it's wasn't the defining issue of the series.

[catch24]

bruceblitzconfession (10 minutes ago)
There is a radio "interview" of a Michael Jordan impersonator floating around the internet that surfaced from a Charlotte radio station. I can't believe people can't tell that it's just a Jordan impersonator. The interview starts with the hosts saying "Here's our MJ", the hosts laugh the entire time, the impersonator has more of a southern draw and says things like "I'm important guys, unlike you", and totally completely does a terrible job of impersonating Jordan, yet there are some real slow members of the internet out there buying into this impersonation. I find that hilarious. Just to give you guys the heads up if you come across it.

bruceblitzconfession (8 minutes ago)
If Jordan was really on that show, it would have been more serious, more professional, and the hosts would have actually called him "Michael Jordan", which they didn't. For me though, as a long time fan of basketball, it was obvious to me that it is an impersonator just by listening to his voice. I'm just in awe that people actually thought that was the real Air Jordan.

So was it really him?

[Game]

It was no secret, Kobe heard the comments and there were unofficial reports and hearsay that he took them personally, as if they were a shot at him, especially more poignant since West was his mentor. Now there was never a direct statement from Kobe on the matter beyond the usual 'healthy competition is good, blah blah blah'. But obviously West wanted to make it clear that he never intended to personally attack Kobe:

Must be hard to sh!t when you're pulling things out of your azz.

[DonDadda59]

Must be hard to sh!t when you're pulling things out of your azz.

Stop it already, West retracted the statement because he didn't want to demean Kobe, ie didn't want him to think he was attacking him personally. Just curious, do you think he changed his mind (didn't really) because he had a sudden epiphany?

[Indian guy]

People do KNOW that the guy in the link posted isn't MJ?

[Game]

Stop it already, West retracted the statement because he didn't want to demean Kobe, ie didn't want him to think he was attacking him personally. Just curious, do you think he changed his mind (didn't really) because he had a sudden epiphany?

So first you said West changed his mind because Kobe was upset and now you're saying he changed his mind because he didn't want to demean Kobe? lol.

When West made the statements, Cavs were cruising and Lakers were strulling with a depleted Rockets. It was a reaction statement and then he realized he looked like a dumbazz and took it wrong. But according to you, Kobe was upset and you can't prove it :oldlol:

[RoTM]

Just like shaq bunch of millionaires acting like children and thinking that someone else being good takes away from who they are.

[DonDadda59]

So first you said West changed his mind because Kobe was upset and now you're saying he changed his mind because he didn't want to demean Kobe? lol.

demean

verb

1. To deprive of esteem, self-worth, or effectiveness

Definition: humble, humiliate
Antonyms: boost, enhance, improve, upgrade

[Game]

demean

verb

1. To deprive of esteem, self-worth, or effectiveness

Definition: humble, humiliate
Antonyms: boost, enhance, improve, upgrade

Care to show the unofficial reports? Links?

Or was it inside info? :oldlol:

[Rashard]

I had to touch on one of the debates going on in this thread. Where some fans feel that Shaq was a better player than Kobe at the beginning part of this decade. Well, Im probably older than many of you here (34) and I did witness first hand the run that three-peat group of Lakers made at the early part of this decade. Without question, the '99-'00 version of Shaq was the better player of the two. That was the year they won the first of the three. Shaq was so incredibly dominate it was insane. Kobe was still developing as a player and was clearly not as good or as dominate as Shaq that year.

'00-01 rolls around and Kobe slowly starts to close that gap between who was the better player, IMO. That's when Kobe truly started to come into his own. '01-02 Is the year that Kobe closed the gap,IMO. Shaq was absolutely the most dominate of the two. His size, strength, speed and athletic ability for a man his size was unheard of. There was no one who could guard him down low. No one. However, IMO, Kobe is by far the more skilled player. He can do everything on a basketball court and do it well. While Shaq is only effective up to 12ft away from the basket, if that.

They are two totally different players and I really cant see how you can compare them. Their games are absolutely nothing alike. During their run fans and media would always say that Shaq is the most dominate, while Kobe is the best player. If memory serves me correct, I think Shaq said that a few times as well during multiple interviews. I think that once their careers are over that's exactly the way they will be remembered. Shaq will be remembered as the most dominate big man ever, while Kobe could very well go down as one of the greatest and possibly THE greatest when it's all said and done.

[Big#50]

:applause: :rockon:
Yeah, I'm sure if they had witnessed Shaq dropping 40/20 games in the playoffs, backing down top defenders and dunking on them like it was nothing, using his great black tornado spin move, make consistently good, sometimes great passes, blocking shots and scaring everyone away from the paint and dominating the boards then I'm sure it'd be obvious to them that Shaq was a lot better than Kobe. I can't believe some people are either so young or have such a bad memory that they've forgotten about how Shaq tore apart the league.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Now why is it that people always bring up what a great second option Kobe was to Shaq, yet they don't give Pippen credit for being an elite player and arguably as good of a sidekick to Jordan?

Pippen was their point guard or "point forward" and led the Bulls in assists every season they won a championship, he was usually around 20 ppg, he could post up, hit outside shots, he was very athletic and could run the floor or attack the basket, he was one of the best rebounding small forwards, he even led the team in steals and blocks at times during their championships and he often defended the other team's best player and often shut them down.

Pippen in 1992 was certainly better than Kobe in 2000 and arguably better than 2002 Kobe as well. And Jordan did have a legit 3rd guy on his team in Horace Grant during the first 3peat and Toni Kukoc/Dennis Rodman during the 2nd.

Most stars that have won championships played with more talent top to bottom than Shaq did during the 3peat.

[NBASTATMAN]

So was it really him?


I think that is def MJ...

[NBASTATMAN]

Quote:
Jerry West, the man responsible for bringing Kobe Bryant to the Lakers in a 1996 draft-day trade, basically retracted his comments last week that Cleveland forward LeBron James had passed Bryant as the game's best player. "I said something that I wish I wouldn't have said, to be honest with you, because it was in no way demeaning to Kobe Bryant," West said in a recent interview on "The Jim Rome Show." "I love his passion. I want him to win a championship without Shaquille O'Neal because I think it would vindicate him in some respect. If I had to watch a player play, there's about four players I would pay to see play on a regular basis, and Kobe Bryant certainly would be at the top of that list. Late in the game, who are you going to take to make a shot, who are you going to take in the last quarter of a game? Kobe Bryant's still the best in the league."

-Los Angeles Times



It seems like Jerry West didn't understand how big his comments would be.. I am not sure anyone takes MJ's word over Jerry's on evaluating NBA talent... I do agree with Mj,, Lebron needs to work on some areas of his game... My biggest beef is that Wade isn't even mentioned.. The guy has the compelete package and when healthy outplays kobe and lebron... :wtf:

[rosonviyavong]

If Kobe was a big ..MJ wouldnt say that

[LA_Showtime]

People do KNOW that the guy in the link posted isn't MJ?

This:oldlol:

[lakerfreak]

You idiot.

THE BIG ARISTOTLE.

I hate these Lakers fans too young to have witnessed the early 00's.

And whats your point? lol

Kobe is still the greatest and most complete player since MJ.

Usually people that accuse others of being too young are usually younger people that feel insecure being around older and more experienced men.

[Godfather]

And whats your point? lol

Kobe is still the greatest and most complete player since MJ.

Usually people that accuse others of being too young are usually younger people that feel insecure being around older and more experienced men.

You are a ****ing idiot.

Shaq

Tim Duncan

Go look up these players, their accomplishments, and watch some highlights in their prime. Both are more complete and better players than one Kobe Bryant.

[lakerfreak]

And Jerry West, one of the all time great players AND talent evaluators, said Lebron had already surpassed Kobe as the best in the world at age 24, the Kobe brigade worldwide went berserk, to the point West semi-contracted his statements. :oldlol:

Love MJ to death for what he did on the court, but as a talent scout/evaluator... he leaves much to be desired. This is the guy who had a hand in drafting Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison, two of the biggest busts in recent memory. Also was the guy who doubted Lebron would have a big impact on the league back in '03.


I read those Jerry West comments and I interpreted them differently.

When he said "Lebron has surpassed Kobe", I do not think he necessarily meant that when you are talking about a scale of "All time greatest" but rather that Kobe is beginning to declining while lebron is playing at the top of his game. However even a Kobe thats getting older is still an amazing player and his game is more complete than anyone else out there.

He posts up well, he can score from anywhere, he makes his teammates better, he plays above average defense, hits his free throws, boxes out big men.

The best all around game today. I don't see why he isn't the best since MJ.

[lakerfreak]

You are a ****ing idiot.

Shaq

Tim Duncan

Go look up these players, their accomplishments, and watch some highlights in their prime. Both are more complete and better players than one Kobe Bryant.


For as many times as you call someone an idiot, the more you look like one. It really doesn't help your arguments. You should take philosophy 101. You might learn a thing or two.

[mendozatheman]

It's hard for me to think that shaq is the best player to play since MJ. I remember watching all his playoff and finals games he would not have one ring if it wasn't for Wade and Kobe because almost everytime the game was close in the 4th quarter you couldn't go to him because of his free throw shooting that is where kobe and wade took over most games. Out of Kobe, Duncan, Shaq and to some degree even KG the big "Shaqtastic" is the only one out of that group that didn't have the ball in his hand at the end of the game. Don't get me wrong he was freakin awesome and they actually DID go to him when they had a secure lead because he would ALWAYS atleast hit one ft but the ball went to someone other then him when the game was in limbo. So I find it hard to rate him over Duncan and Kobe but I would still rate him higher then KG. Just an opinion so trolls don't get all crazy!

[Godfather]

I read those Jerry West comments and I interpreted them differently.

When he said "Lebron has surpassed Kobe", I do not think he necessarily meant that when you are talking about a scale of "All time greatest" but rather that Kobe is beginning to declining while lebron is playing at the top of his game. However even a Kobe thats getting older is still an amazing player and his game is more complete than anyone else out there.

He posts up well, he can score from anywhere, he makes his teammates better, he plays above average defense, hits his free throws, boxes out big men.

The best all around game today. I don't see why he isn't the best since MJ.

:roll::roll::roll:

To the rim ability: LeBron
Overall jump shooting: Kobe
Passing: LeBron
Rebounding: LeBron
Blocking: LeBron
Stealing: LeBron
Man to man defense: Kobe
Overall efficiency: LeBron

And on who is the best since MJ:

http://images.art.com/images/products/large/12046000/12046904.jpg

http://www.usatoday.com/gallery/nbafinals/06shaq.jpg


I am tired of 13 year old kids pretending they have witnessed the true greats of this era.

[canza]

For those of you that said that Shaq and Duncan are better, I don't think MJ meant it that way. Listen to MJ and what he says before he says Kobe is the best. He says that "when making a decision to drive to the hoop" or take a shot, Kobe is the best. That and only that, he didn't say Kobe was the best playeroverall. You think Duncan and Shaq could decide to drive to the hoop or shoot outside jumpers like MJ or Kobe? -_-

Some of you guys read it the wrong way.

[O.J A 6'4Mamba]

agreed, listen to MJ he knows what he is talking about, He can evaluate talent like no other.

[Godfather]

For those of you that said that Shaq and Duncan are better, I don't think MJ meant it that way. Listen to MJ and what he says before he says Kobe is the best. He says that "when making a decision to drive to the hoop" or take a shot, Kobe is the best. That and only that, he didn't say Kobe was the best playeroverall. You think Duncan and Shaq could decide to drive to the hoop or shoot outside jumpers like MJ or Kobe? -_-

Some of you guys read it the wrong way.

Though this may be true.

For those who truly believe Kobe is the greatest of the era...explain to me why is only clutching 1 Finals MVP.

[andgar923]

:roll::roll::roll:

To the rim ability: LeBron
Overall jump shooting: Kobe
Passing: LeBron
Rebounding: LeBron
Blocking: LeBron
Stealing: LeBron
Man to man defense: Kobe
Overall efficiency: LeBron

And on who is the best since MJ:




I am tired of 13 year old kids pretending they have witnessed the true greats of this era.

c.s

Kobe has a more defined offensive skillset. But Bron is still getting the job done despite not having such a fine tuned offensive game.

I've always said that there's aspects in Kobe's game that are better than Bron's, and vice versa.

Also......

I think that as a 'player' Bron is slightly better, and so is Wade.

Kobe's biggest problem, aside from his declining athleticism, is and has always been his decision making. Which imo is one of the worst for a hall of fame player. And its actually quiet laughable when compared to the top 25 players of all time.

Bron forces shots as well, but its not just about forcing shots, because all players at some point do that, specially the no.1 option.

[purple8gold]

Is that really him? I still think it's some sorta joke. :confusedshrug: :D

[lakerfreak]

Though this may be true.

For those who truly believe Kobe is the greatest of the era...explain to me why is only clutching 1 Finals MVP.

because of his 4 championships total, Shaq was still a HOF caliber player at that time. He was the number 1 option on the team, and he was the leader in many categories. However it was still close between the two of them. Kobe excelled as a guard and Shaq excelled as a center.

Its just so unfortunate that a center tends to shoot a much higher FG%, averages much more rebounds, and blocks more shots. Whether thats true or not, Kobe was the greatest closer on that team. Without Kobe, Shaq wouldn't have any championships.

Its probably easier to build around a dominant center, but it shouldn't mean Shaq was "way" better. Whatever the situation is beating on a dead horse.

[andgar923]

Is that really him? I still think it's some sorta joke. :confusedshrug: :D

It was a joke.

I'm now 99% certain that it wasn't him.

[IInvented]

For as many times as you call someone an idiot, the more you look like one. It really doesn't help your arguments. You should take philosophy 101. You might learn a thing or two.

Your name is LakerFreak.. :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Heilige]

c.s

Kobe has a more defined offensive skillset. But Bron is still getting the job done despite not having such a fine tuned offensive game.

I've always said that there's aspects in Kobe's game that are better than Bron's, and vice versa.

Also......

I think that as a 'player' Bron is slightly better, and so is Wade.

Kobe's biggest problem, aside from his declining athleticism, is and has always been his decision making. Which imo is one of the worst for a hall of fame player. And its actually quiet laughable when compared to the top 25 players of all time.

Bron forces shots as well, but its not just about forcing shots, because all players at some point do that, specially the no.1 option.



Who would you say are the top 25 players of all time?

[Heilige]

It was a joke.

I'm now 99% certain that it wasn't him.



Agreed.

[lakerfreak]

Your name is LakerFreak.. :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Yep, not Kobefreak.

[andgar923]

Who would you say are the top 25 players of all time?


I always end up leaving or forgetting a great player, and I haven't really seen all of them play in their primes. Some players are hard to judge by looking at YouTube clips, while you can get a good sense of how dominant some were based on the clips.... specially Centers.

So I really don't have an official list OFFICIAL list. And it changes all the time as well, so why really make one.

I do have Kobe hovering around 15-20 tho.

Too much to get into it right now.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Hey Jordan, this guy was a lot better than Kobe ever was.

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/040418/040418_shaq_vmed_7a.widec.jpg

Don't forget that he was challening MJ for the best player in the league title during Jordan's last year or 2 with the Bulls, but injuries prevented it from really being a debate. Hell prime Shaq is closer to Jordan's level than he is to Kobe's level. I think Loki even said that Shaq's prime is up there with Jordan's.

And Duncan had a better peak than Kobe and a better career. Lets see Kobe carry the 2003 Spurs to a championship and have a near quadruple double in the clinching game.

I like Kobe, but he sometimes gets ridiculously overrated. He seriously doesn't even have an argument for best player of the post Jordan era.


Yeah, I'm sure if they had witnessed Shaq dropping 40/20 games in the playoffs, backing down top defenders and dunking on them like it was nothing, using his great black tornado spin move, make consistently good, sometimes great passes, blocking shots and scaring everyone away from the paint and dominating the boards then I'm sure it'd be obvious to them that Shaq was a lot better than Kobe. I can't believe some people are either so young or have such a bad memory that they've forgotten about how Shaq tore apart the league.

Some more great posts from you. :cheers: I really think Shaq is the most unappreciated player of all time. People have forgotten that for the most part, throughout his career, Shaq + Team = Championship contender.

[G-Funk]

Personally, I'd have Kobe at 2 with Shaq/Duncan at 1a/1b but I'm saying Kobe has a good case.

luckily for Kobe he has enought years to surpass them, since Shaq & Tim are done as far as being able to lead their team to championships.

[indiefan24]

I do have Kobe hovering around 15-20 tho.



:applause: :applause: :applause:
:cheers: :cheers:

[KenneBell]

15-20? :oldlol:

As far as Shaq being underrated, I don't think so. If all-time lists were purely based on dominance he'd be top 2 but they aren't. So right around 6-7 is a great spot for him.

[G-Funk]

I don't think that was Jordan in the interview. But even if it was him he clearly said GREATEST not best! so I don't know why all you haters are getting all worked up. Greatest and Best are 2 different words. I can see him saying "Shaq/Duncan were the best players since him. But Greatest? we're yet to see.

[jstern]

No video. But sounds like that fake Jordan radio interview on yutube. Doesn't like Jordan at all. For example, even if he felt it, Jordan wouldn't say something that sounded like an ignorant fanboy like, "Lebron will be done be done in 6 six years." And from past interviews he doesn't rank players, always using the different era excuse to avoid the subject.