Isiah Thomas vs John Stockton. [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

ClutchCity95

08-07-2009, 08:17 PM

I was the one who made the Vote for the #1 PG of all-time thread not counting Magic Johnson and John Stockton won the voting by pretty much a landslide, in my opinion Stockton shouldn't have won at all, but It's an opinion. Just like this comparison is an opinion and I am curious on all of your thoughts.

In my book, I have Isiah above Stockton but there are reasonable opinions to take Stockton above Isiah. I'd also like to add that it's a myth that Isiah wasn't a real PG, he had 4 straight seasons of double-figure APG.

Before, I felt like Stockton was the better player, but I took a look at Isiah's stats and what impressed me the most was the APG. Just like others, I believed the myth that Isiah was more of a scoring PG than a passing PG and Isiah wasn't that good of a passer. Silly me. I'm not a guy that looks at stats too much, but it does give you a good indication of things.

However, as an all-around player I say Stockton has the edge. He just played better defense, was the better shooter and pretty much was the better passer. The thing is Isiah had the capability of making the Clutch shots, in a Michael Jordan way, which would involve creating off the dribble. When Stockton hit big shots, It was like the way Reggie Miller would hit his. Off of screens, 1 dribble, not much creating. Along with that and the hardware, I think that's what separates Isiah to Stockton.

Isiah also had the intangibles as many others have said as well, The killer instinct was just so pure.

So..........

-Who was the better player according to you guys?

AllenIverson3

08-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Isiah Thomas for me.. Stockton is top 5 all time though

magnax1

08-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Stockton was a better passer, at least as good of a jump shooter, as good as defense. As good or better at basically everything but scoring.

ProfessorMurder

08-07-2009, 08:36 PM

I'd also like to add that it's a myth that Isiah wasn't a real PG, he had 4 straight seasons of double-figure APG. So..........

Yeah and Stockton had 10 straight seasons of 10+ assists per game, and averaged 10.5 per game over a 6 year longer career than Isiah.

Stockton is better in almost every category other than scoring.

I'd pick Stockton 10 times out of 10.

Rekindled

08-07-2009, 08:41 PM

Yeah and Stockton had 10 straight seasons of 10+ assists per game, and averaged 10.5 per game over a 6 year longer career than Isiah.

Stockton is better in almost every category other than scoring.

I'd pick Stockton 10 times out of 10.

rofl stockton had the mailman to feed assists too. Isiah was the best pure passer in nba history. he is also more clutch, a lot tougher on defense and carried his teams to championships.

stockton has rarely (or never) carried his team in clutch situations. that's why his team was never relavent till the nba enters the watered down era in late 90s.

Al Thornton

08-07-2009, 08:42 PM

Stockton by far.

Luigi

08-07-2009, 08:43 PM

magnax1

08-07-2009, 08:45 PM

rofl stockton had the mailman to feed assists too. Isiah was the best pure passer in nba history. he is also more clutch, a lot tougher on defense and carried his teams to championships.

stockton has rarely (or never) carried his team in clutch situations. that's why his team was never relavent till the nba enters the watered down era in late 90s.
This statement comes from a person who has never seen stockton, and maybe Isiah Thomas play basketball. sad.

Rekindled

08-07-2009, 08:46 PM

rofl. explain how stockton only averaged 1 more assist than Isiah when he had mailman.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 08:47 PM

The OP asked this question on the ESPN board a few times. I go back and forth in my mind on it.

If you do a skill breakdown, Stockton is better in passing, defense, and shooting, while Isiah was easily the more explosive scorer. To me, that would indicate Stockton was better.

However, when you are ranking the elite of the elite, team success IMO has to come into play somewhere, and that clearly favors Isiah. 1989 and 1990, and Isiah's performances therein give him a small edge, IMO.

Really, I think my summation would be that Stockton was better in most things that you can quantify, and that Isiah was better in things you can't quantify. How you balance those forces is up to you.

It's close though.

magnax1

08-07-2009, 08:49 PM

rofl. explain how stockton only averaged 1 more assist than Isiah when he had mailman.
Reason 1-He played way past his prime, Isiah played 12 seasons, stockton19.
Reason 2- What does Malone have to do with this. Explain Why Thomas only average 9 when he had Dantley, Dumars, Lambeer, and Vinnie Johnson to feed to? You logic is flawed.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 08:50 PM

rofl. explain how stockton only averaged 1 more assist than Isiah when he had mailman.

One often ignored factor is that during Isiah's prime years for assists, the overall pace of the game was faster PLUS he played for a fairly fast paced team relative to the era (the Pistons were 4th in pace when Isiah set the assist record).

By contrast, during Stockton's prime, the game was slowing down somewhat, PLUS he generally played on teams that were average to slow in pace, relative to the league.

Yung D-Will

08-07-2009, 08:51 PM

Isiah I think was the better overall player but if you talk about Longevity it's a whole different story.

Luigi

08-07-2009, 08:56 PM

rofl. explain how stockton only averaged 1 more assist than Isiah when he had mailman.
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Tarkus/FacePalm.jpg

I can't believe I am answering this.

Isiah had one season at 13.9. The Pistons' offensive pace factor was 105.
Stockton had five seasons in the teens at pace factors of 101.5, 98, 96.1, 95.3, and 95.5.

Stockton had a higher best, and 8 more seasons better than Isiah's second best year. This is as disproportionate as it gets.

fos

08-07-2009, 09:00 PM

Both great players, it depends really on what style of PG play you want. I'm a Stockton guy myself but you can't go wrong with either. Isiah was a tremendous player.

Bigsmoke

08-07-2009, 09:18 PM

I might get hate from this but... to me.. the better point guard was easily Isiah.

People can talk about this leader of the assist bullsh*t as much as as they want. That just mean John Stockton is nothing more than a Warren Moon in basketball. Come to think of it, John Stockton had a great supporting cast himself even if you disincluded Malone. So i guess Thurl Bailey, Jeff Malone, and Jeff Hornacek were all scrubs right?

Thomas actually can set up players much more effectively than John Stocton could since 90% of his assists werent pick and Rolls to one player "Karl Malone".

Isiah would easily would of accomplished more team success if both Stockton and Isiah would switch teams.

ClutchCity95

08-07-2009, 09:18 PM

Yeah and Stockton had 10 straight seasons of 10+ assists per game, and averaged 10.5 per game over a 6 year longer career than Isiah.

Stockton is better in almost every category other than scoring.

I'd pick Stockton 10 times out of 10.
No question, Stockton is the better passer, but he did have a better finisher and player to feed to. Isiah had the better overall team with the Pistons having Joe Dumars, Bill Lambieer, Adrian Dantley, etc..... but Stockton had Karl Malone and he was better than any of those Pistons individually.

Reality is, When you are comparing greatness, MVPs, Championships and also Finals MVPs will play a role and Isiah has at least one of each except for MVP. Stockton doesn't have any.

Again, even though Stockton may not have won any, I still see a legit case, Stockton was the better defender, the better passer and shooter, rest belong to Isiah. However, Stockton did frequently get outplayed by inferior PGs and teams, Very Frequently........Some in the playoffs as well.

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:20 PM

I'm taking Zeke...

Killer Instinct. He had it...Stockton didn't

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:21 PM

Thomas actually can set up players much more effectively than John Stocton could since 90% of his assists werent pick and Rolls to one player "Karl Malone".

No they weren't.

Stockton was OUTSTANDING at running the fast break, and making perfect passes to players in stride, and also at penetrating deep into defenses and kicking it out for wing jump shots, much like Nash in today's game.

Da_Realist

08-07-2009, 09:23 PM

One often ignored factor is that during Isiah's prime years for assists, the overall pace of the game was faster PLUS he played for a fairly fast paced team relative to the era (the Pistons were 4th in pace when Isiah set the assist record).

By contrast, during Stockton's prime, the game was slowing down somewhat, PLUS he generally played on teams that were average to slow in pace, relative to the league.

What must also be considered is that Isiah had to tone down his game to fit the team. He was a VERY explosive (and streaky) scorer off the dribble who I think would have broken a few more offensive records if he was given the green light for most of his career. However, for the Pistons to win, he had to play a slow, physical type of basketball that didn't yield itself to his natural game. The fact that he had so many memorable performances from 87 - 90 says a lot about his talent. And his desire to win. Most guards with his ability would have whined day and night if they had to play the late 80's Pistons style of ball.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:27 PM

What must also be considered is that Isiah had to tone down his game to fit the team. He was a VERY explosive (and streaky) scorer off the dribble who I think would have broken a few more offensive records if he was given the green light for most of his career. However, for the Pistons to win, he had to play a slow, physical type of basketball that didn't yield itself to his natural game. The fact that he had so many memorable performances from 87 - 90 says a lot about his talent. And his desire to win. Most guards with his ability would have whined day and night if they had to play the late 80's Pistons style of ball.

If they had played a breaking, hectic style of ball in the late 80s/early 90s, Isiah would have zero rings.

That benefited him and his legacy more than it detracted from his legacy.

Da_Realist

08-07-2009, 09:27 PM

A previous thread with some good points on both sides...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74988

Bigsmoke

08-07-2009, 09:27 PM

No they weren't.

Stockton was OUTSTANDING at running the fast break, and making perfect passes to players in stride, and also at penetrating deep into defenses and kicking it out for wing jump shots, much like Nash in today's game.

and Isiah wasnt?

Stockton had speed and had a very high I.Q. Stockton was a Clutch player whoever said he wasnt... he shot that game winner against the Rockets on game 6 back in 97.

To me, Stockton doesnt changes game tempos like Isiah did. Thats a fact. Maybe i need to watch more of his games because i see nothing but pick in rolls most of the time when i see some of the classic Jazz games on NBATV.

Luigi

08-07-2009, 09:28 PM

I'm taking Zeke...

Killer Instinct. He had it...Stockton didn't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0Ce_Z5w&feature=PlayList&p=FBD0777E30321C9C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

That's all I want as far as killer instinct goes from my point. Leave it to the bigger players to kill it. You gotta qb if your the point.

Da_Realist

08-07-2009, 09:28 PM

If they had played a breaking, hectic style of ball in the late 80s/early 90s, Isiah would have zero rings.

That benefited him and his legacy more than it detracted from his legacy.

Yeah...it's tricky. How much does personal achievement outweigh team success?

magnax1

08-07-2009, 09:30 PM

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:33 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0Ce_Z5w&feature=PlayList&p=FBD0777E30321C9C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

That's all I want as far as killer instinct goes from my point. Leave it to the bigger players to kill it. You gotta qb if your the point.

Isaiah used to take over games and make it a point to kill the guy in front of him if they had a scrub on him. Stockton never did this...it wasn't his style.

I'm not taking anything away from Stockton as an overall player...I just personally prefer a more ballsy PG. GP is probably my fav PG of all time because he went so hard on the guy that was guarding him but still ran the offense really smooth.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:33 PM

and Isiah wasnt?

Stockton had speed and had a very high I.Q. Stockton was a Clutch player whoever said he wasnt... he shot that game winner against the Rockets on game 6 back in 97.

To me, Stockton doesnt changes game tempos like Isiah did. Thats a fact. Maybe i need to watch more of his games because i see nothing much pick in rolls most of the time when i see some of the classic Jazz games on NBATV.

Did I say that?

Stockton was better though, yes. Stockton was comparable to Magic in terms of running an efficient fast break.

They both have their strengths and weaknesses. You say Isiah changes a game's tempo more than Stockton. I might point to Stockton's vastly superior numbers in terms of shooting and passing efficiency. As an example, even though Stockton played a f-ton of years, he averaged an amazing 4 assists per turnover, while Isiah averaged 2.5 per turnover.

I think with this question, you really have to look at the whole picture, because they each have very real advantages over the other in various aspects of the game.

Isiah would be my choice, everything considered, but it isn't a no-contest by any means. It's very close.

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:34 PM

Stockton is one of the 10 most clutch players in nba History. I don't know where this guy is coming from.

He would take the big shot yes, but he didn't take over games like I wanted him to. There were many games where I would watch him and didn't think he was aggressive enough.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:36 PM

Yeah...it's tricky. How much does personal achievement outweigh team success?

The jump from zero rings to one ring is the most important jump when you are comparing elite players.

Every single player on my top 10 list has at least one lead player ring, and most have 2-4 rings.

Some people may call it unfortunate, but that's the way it is. I also don't feel that bad about leaning on the rings in this argument, because Stockton had a few chances to win rings. It isn't like he was stuck on scrub teams.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:38 PM

Whatcha think of my post? And Check the Is PP a Top 10 SF thread. If you got time that is. :pimp:

Yeah, I saw that. I'm actually not going out tonight, so I may check it out.

I think your original post is good.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:42 PM

He would take the big shot yes, but he didn't take over games like I wanted him to. There were many games where I would watch him and didn't think he was aggressive enough.

He made quite a few clutch passing plays as well.

For example, in game 6 of the 1998 Finals (unfortunately), he hit two jumpers, a three, and made an extreme difficult pass to a streaking Malone (over MJ's head) in the clutch and close fourth quarter.

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:45 PM

Anyone remember when Zeke got mad that Stockton got to be on the Dream Team and he didn't and he proceeded to bust Stockton's ass for 44 points ?

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:49 PM

He made quite a few clutch passing plays as well.

For example, in game 6 of the 1998 Finals (unfortunately), he hit two jumpers, a three, and made an extreme difficult pass to a streaking Malone (over MJ's head) in the clutch and close fourth quarter.

I think I confused you guys with the term "killer instinct". I use it differently than most. Most people see it as being clutch. I see it as the will to want to personally bury your opponent. Isaiah would routinely take over a game and bury his opponent when he felt he had the advantage. This is what I was talking about.

Many times Stockton would have the advantage or even be hot from the field and instead of killing his opponent he would be passive

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:50 PM

Anyone remember when Zeke got mad that Stockton got to be on the Dream Team and he didn't and he proceeded to bust Stockton's ass for 44 points ?

Yep.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199111150DET.html

Not to play devil's advocate, but Stockton accounted for 46 points (excluding threes) on points and assists, while Isiah accounted for 52 points.

I remember what happened after that game as well.
http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/Malone.danger.html#isiah

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:53 PM

Yep.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199111150DET.html

Not to play devil's advocate, but Stockton accounted for 46 points (excluding threes) on points and assists, while Isiah accounted for 52 points.

I remember what happened after that game as well.
http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/Malone.danger.html#isiah

Karl Malone...dirty bastard

magnax1

08-07-2009, 09:53 PM

He would take the big shot yes, but he didn't take over games like I wanted him to. There were many games where I would watch him and didn't think he was aggressive enough.
No he wasn't aggressive, hed always look to setup his team mates, but he'd take over games when his team mates weren't capable of closing out the games. He was clutch an very very clutch at that.

Bush4Ever

08-07-2009, 09:54 PM

Karl Malone...dirty bastard

Karl Malone is blameless in this situation.

Isiah went out of his way to headbutt Malone's elbow, and paid the price.

:banana:

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 09:57 PM

Karl Malone is blameless in this situation.

Isiah went out of his way to headbutt Malone's elbow, and paid the price.

:banana:

LOL...yeah right

http://www.fredhayes.com/photogallery/Karl%20Malone%20and%20Tim%20Duncan.jpg

http://fourthandfifty.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/robert-horry-nut-shot.jpg

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/malonekickhakeem.jpg

What is he going for here ? :oldlol:

F*ckin Malone...Gotta respect how hard he went though

Luigi

08-07-2009, 10:00 PM

Malone = killer instinct.:confusedshrug:

LAClipsFan33

08-07-2009, 10:09 PM

Malone = killer instinct.:confusedshrug:

:cheers:

Da_Realist

08-07-2009, 10:33 PM

I remember what happened after that game as well.
http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/Malone.danger.html#isiah

I remember this too...but I didn't know it was this bad. The game wasn't on national tv and all I saw were highlights.

In December 1991, Isiah Thomas, one of the league's most loved superstars, was driving to the basket and Karl Malone "went for the ball" but somehow managed to hit Isiah's face so hard with an "unintentional" elbow that Thomas had to be carries from the court and required plastic surgery and forty stitches.

Malone was assessed a flagrant foul and given a $10,000 fine and a one-game suspension. Malone, of course, claimed it was an accident and did not mean to hurt Thomas. After the incident, he talked to Isiah and denied the elbow was deliberate and offered no apology.

As Michael Lowe, D.P.M., team podiatrist for the Utah Jazz, remembered it in remarks at the 1996 AAPSM annual meeting:

Isiah Thomas was driving the lane hard to the basket when Karl swatted at the ball but missed and caught Isiah across the eye brow with his elbow. Again the smaller mass paid the price from the 265 lb. Malone. Thomas went down hard to the court. His initial reaction was that he had been shot in the head by some one in the stands. I looked down to see if the Orthopedic Surgeon was going on to the court, he wasn't in his seat, he had gone outside of the court area to answer a page. Isiah was hemorrhaging from the laceration quite badly and was badly dazed from the impact with Karl's elbow. I went down to see if I could help the trainer, since there was general mayhem on the court. I suggested that we put a collar on him and get a back board to carry him off the court. It was at this point that Bill Laimbeer grabbed me from behind and practically lifted me off the ground by the neck, telling me that Isiah wasn't going to leave the court that way. This was done by shouting about 2 inches away directly into my face. Before I could react from his shove to my chest to get me out of the way, he picked Isiah Thomas up like you would pick up your three year old son, and carried him very carefully into the locker room for further evaluation. It was at about this time the Orthopod showed up. I gladly turned the situation, and Bill Lambier, over to him. Isiah had a lacerated artery across the brow and was bleeding quite profusely. Lambier refused to leave his side. Since Isiah had a poster boy like face, the Orthopedic surgeon elected to have him transported to the hospital for a Plastic Surgeon to do the primary repair. Lambier went with him to the hospital too. That's what I call team support.

Of course, Malone supports his team, too -- only he does it by hurting opponents, not just helping his teammates.

eek:

JalenRawley

08-07-2009, 10:33 PM

I was the one who made the Vote for the #1 PG of all-time thread not counting Magic Johnson and John Stockton won the voting by pretty much a landslide, in my opinion Stockton shouldn't have won at all, but It's an opinion. Just like this comparison is an opinion and I am curious on all of your thoughts.

In my book, I have Isiah above Stockton but there are reasonable opinions to take Stockton above Isiah. I'd also like to add that it's a myth that Isiah wasn't a real PG, he had 4 straight seasons of double-figure APG. So..........

-Who was the better player according to you guys?

This needs a little clarification first: The OP mentions a vote for the all-time point guard, and then asks who was the better player. I think this really comes down to what traits are more important in a point guard, and that's something that is entirely subjective. However, the question of who was the better player is a little more general in scope.

I personally prefer a pass-first point guard over a scoring point guard, so I'd have to pick Stockton over Isiah in the point guard race. That's not to say that Isiah wasn't a good passer, nor that Stockton was useless offensively, but based on what skills I find important in a point guard, I'd have Stockton ranked above Isiah. Just like I'd have Jason Kidd and Steve Nash ranked higher than Gilbert Arenas or Allen Iverson.

As for who was the better player? Isiah, hands down.

Good topic to debate!

Da_Realist

08-07-2009, 10:44 PM

I remember what happened after that game as well.
http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/Malone.danger.html#isiah

Man... this article is reminding me how dirty Malone was. Damn I forgot half of this stuff...

Shepseskaf

08-07-2009, 11:02 PM

but based on what skills I find important in a point guard, I'd have Stockton ranked above Isiah. As for who was the better player? Isiah, hands down.
+1

Duncan21formvp

08-08-2009, 12:06 AM

Zeke

Yung D-Will

09-14-2010, 12:25 PM

Boom

G.O.A.T

09-14-2010, 01:10 PM

I think the titles make it Isiah by quite a margin.

Stockton was good because he was consistently above average to very good.

What separates Isiah is his ability to be GREAT. Only Iverson has approached it in terms of a small play being able to take over a game in multiple ways against any opponent. But even he never was willing or never had good enough team mates to step back and save the heroics for the final moment. Once Isiah did that, he stopped winning individual awards and statistical titles and starting winning rings.

Sarcastic

09-14-2010, 01:15 PM

Isiah is better than Stockton.

nbacardDOTnet

09-14-2010, 02:31 PM

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20Crazy%20Shot/from%20Crazy%20Pass/82130334.gif

but Stockton 's record is crazy.

Karl Malone...dirty bastard

Karl Malone and Isiah Thomas

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/0%20Most%20Dominant%20Elbow/dirtykarlmalonekillsisiahthomaswith.gif

mentallooser

09-14-2010, 02:49 PM

I gotta take Stockton. He might not have been the better overall player, but he was a better overall PG IMO

Round Mound

09-14-2010, 04:03 PM

G.O.A.T

09-14-2010, 05:32 PM

Stockton

Isiah was stacked with great rebounders, shooters and paint defenders

Dumars
Dantley
Aguirre
Mahorn
Laimbeer
Rodman
Salley

Stockton was the better shooter, desicion maker, passer, game creator, defender (DRT will agree, Stockton finished in the Top 10 like 4 times in the late 80s and early 90s), team defender, stealer and as clutch (but had way more responsability to create than Isiah)

Isiah was the better slasher thats it.

See, this is what happens when you invest too much in stats.

You actually think a guy who played with the games seconding leading score all-time his whole career and never won anything is better than Isiah Thomas who sacrificed numbers to win two titles in the midst of the most competitive era of superstars in NBA history.

Then you make lists of players who played with Isiah as if they were all in the rotation at the same time or at their peak or even in their prime.

You simply can't rate Stockton over Isiah, it's just not a realistic option.

Sarcastic

09-14-2010, 05:36 PM

Round Mound

09-15-2010, 02:19 AM

Isiah was better than Stockton at all those things except maybe shooting. Put Stockton on the Pistons, and I don't think they win those 2 championships. Give Isiah a player like Karl Malone, and his assist numbers go through the roof too.

Stockton was better. Only thing Isiah was better at is driving to the basket and scoring

Isiah was loaded with THREE 20 and 25 PPG scores: Dumars, Dantley, Aguirre.

He had THREE Dudes capable of rebounding over 10 RPG: Laimbeer, Rodman and even Mahorn.

He also had Great 3 or 4 Solid and Great Paint Defenders and Shot Blockers in Laimbeer (capable of scoring over 17 PPG on 50% FG, one of the best mid range and long range shooting big men of his era) Rodman, Salley and Mahorn (atleast for man to man)

Pistons where stacked. Great Era. But they Where Stacked

Stockton only had Malone (who learned the post game after age 30), a good versatily Baily (not a great scorer) and then Hornacek.

Stockton was more efficient, shot better from the outside, knew wen`t to score, when not to shoot, when to drive, when not to drive, was a better defender, team defender, stealer, assister, creator, passer etc.

Rings can kiss my arse. They relay on stacked teams or more than 3 all legit all stars per team

*One of the Biggest Myths is the "Bad Boys Only Had Defense and Rebounding" :no:

They had Great Shooters, 3-4 Good-Great Scorers and alot of versatility in the bench

the_wise_one

09-15-2010, 03:42 AM

Stockton is better than Isiah.

Sarcastic

09-15-2010, 03:47 AM

Stockton was better. Only thing Isiah was better at is driving to the basket and scoring

Isiah was loaded with THREE 20 and 25 PPG scores: Dumars, Dantley, Aguirre.

He had THREE Dudes capable of rebounding over 10 RPG: Laimbeer, Rodman and even Mahorn.

He also had Great 3 or 4 Solid and Great Paint Defenders and Shot Blockers in Laimbeer (capable of scoring over 17 PPG on 50% FG, one of the best mid range and long range shooting big men of his era) Rodman, Salley and Mahorn (atleast for man to man)

Pistons where stacked. Great Era. But they Where Stacked

Stockton only had Malone (who learned the post game after age 30), a good versatily Baily (not a great scorer) and then Hornacek.

Stockton was more efficient, shot better from the outside, knew wen`t to score, when not to shoot, when to drive, when not to drive, was a better defender, team defender, stealer, assister, creator, passer etc.

Rings can kiss my arse. They relay on stacked teams or more than 3 all legit all stars per team

*One of the Biggest Myths is the "Bad Boys Only Had Defense and Rebounding" :no:

They had Great Shooters, 3-4 Good-Great Scorers and alot of versatility in the bench

Isiah played Batman for his team. Stockton played Robin. That is the difference.