This is why I believe in God. [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

johndeeregreen

08-17-2009, 11:04 PM

My Grandma was going to have surgery with 90% of one of her arteries clogged today that had a 50% that she would get a stroke during surgery. My family were all praying for her health and for the surgery to go well. My Grandma entered the hospital at 7:30 a.m. and they did an MRI. The MRI showed that my Grandma's artery was clogged only 20%. The doctor thought the test was a mistake and repeated the MRI. I believe this is a miracle and I praise the Lord for what He has done. This has strengthened my faith in God and that He does perform miracles as long as we ask sincerely. I was just happy and wanted to let everyone know.
I'm happy for your grandmother and yourself.

As for 'miracles' and stuff like that, well. I just don't know. Everyone writes it off as coincidence, or whatever. But I cannot deny that there have been times in my life that I have felt my life has been touched by God. No question about it. But that's just me. I don't proclaim to be certain that there's something after this life, but I certainly believe there is, and I certainly believe that my life has been affected by said entity. Ridicule me all you want for that, ISH. But there is literally nothing that could make me believe there is nothing after this lifetime, even if I have no idea what lies for me later on. That's confusing I guess; I am not 100% sure there is a heaven is what I'm saying, but I'm sure I have felt His presence throughout my life and that's no lie.

supersmashbros

08-17-2009, 11:06 PM

That's so weird.

My grandpa on my dad's side had a heart attack, doctor's found one of his artery's to be 50 some% clogged. He died later that week.

Praise God.
I don't believe in God because there are so many contradictions with God. How come God let's some ppl die while others live? Some ppl are terrible, disgusting pricks God let's live and 'good' ppl sometimes perish for no reason. I doubt the divine punishment thing. It's superstition.

Knicks101

08-17-2009, 11:06 PM

buzzkill.

This

Showtime

08-17-2009, 11:07 PM

DonDadda59

08-17-2009, 11:07 PM

I'm glad your grandmother is ok, and you should be thankful for that.

But saying this is why you believe in God, what do you believe when you hear a story like this?

Police have charged an Ohio woman in the death, by microwave oven, of her one-month-old daughter, the Associated Press reports.

Mom China Arnold, 26, stands accused of aggravated murder after bringing her dead infant daughter, Paris, to a hospital, with a "high body temperature". The woman was arrested, and later released.

What about 9-11, what about the hundreds of horrible things that happen to innocent people on a daily basis? Just doesn't make any sense why one example of something good would reaffirm your faith but the thousands of negative occurrences you overlook. Does 'God' not have a hand in these also?

Showtime

08-17-2009, 11:10 PM

DonDadda59

08-17-2009, 11:13 PM

No, which is exactly why people think there is a "higher purpose", because they don't want to think that there is such evil and bad in this life without real meaning.

Life is absurd, this is the closest thing I have to a religion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus

shlver

08-17-2009, 11:21 PM

I don't really want to get into a debate about God at the moment. I just wanted to spread the good news.

DonDadda59

08-17-2009, 11:26 PM

I don't really want to get into a debate about God at the moment. I just wanted to spread the good news.

Thread Title: This is why I believe in God.

If what you say above is true then you would've said something along the lines of 'Great News!' or 'My Grandma is much healthier', not a statement about your faith in imaginary beings.

supersmashbros

08-17-2009, 11:27 PM

I don't really want to get into a debate about God at the moment. I just wanted to spread the good news.
That's good. I don't like debating about the existence of something that can't be proven.

shlver

08-17-2009, 11:30 PM

Thread Title: This is why I believe in God.

If what you say above is true then you would've said something along the lines of 'Great News!' or 'My Grandma is much healthier', not a statement about your faith in imaginary beings.
I didn't say this is why God exists. I said This is why I believe in God.

Hawker

08-17-2009, 11:32 PM

I don't really want to get into a debate about God at the moment. I just wanted to spread the good news.

It's all perfectly reaonsable for the things said...to be said.

The only time I've felt close to a "sign from God" was in Canada. We went bike riding in the woods and according to the park employees, there had been quite a few bear sightings. About 5 minutes into the ride, my brother injured himself really bad thus cutting our time short. Maybe it was a protection from bears but probably not considering people get injured from bike accidents all the time.

~primetime~

08-17-2009, 11:33 PM

That's good. I don't like debating about the existence of something that can't be proven.
Has anyone ever just walked up and kicked you in the balls?

And you didn't know why?

supersmashbros

08-17-2009, 11:34 PM

I didn't say this is why God exists. I said This is why I believe in God.
Believing in God is the same thing as saying God exists. By not believing in God, God doesn't exist because God hasn't been proven to exist. If something has been proven to exist (like the fact that the Earth is round not flat) then not believing in it doesn't change reality. In the case of God, not believing in it means it doesn't exist, and believing in it doesn't make it exist in reality.

bigboi_baller

08-17-2009, 11:55 PM

good story...

to those trying to dump on the story:

life itself is a complete miracle
Well put.

I don't believe in God because there are so many contradictions with God. How come God let's some ppl die while others live? Some ppl are terrible, disgusting pricks God let's live and 'good' ppl sometimes perish for no reason. I doubt the divine punishment thing. It's superstition.
I guess you could say its the price we pay for free will/freedom?

Eldrunko247

08-18-2009, 12:00 AM

Why does god create rapists, murderers, and serial killers? God has a plan for everyone you say? What were his plans for babies being killed by pedos? Don't cherry pick religion.

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 12:07 AM

Why does god create rapists, murderers, and serial killers? God has a plan for everyone you say? What were his plans for babies being killed by pedos? Don't cherry pick religion.
so the reason you don't believe in God is because life here in this universe isn't just mindless bliss and love without anything at all to disrupt it?

what would be the point of that?

think of life like a movie...do you want a little action in your movie?...or do you just want it to be a 24/7 video of "Shiney Happy People" by REM?

pain and suffering here is short term...VERY short term, you could be here to either serve a tiny simple purpose or to learn a lesson...or to be faced with a choice...or all of those

Showtime

08-18-2009, 12:33 AM

so the reason you don't believe in God is because life here in this universe isn't just mindless bliss and love without anything at all to disrupt it?

There is a difference between believing in God, and believing he's responsible for cherry picked good things.

think of life like a movie...do you want a little action in your movie?...or do you just want it to be a 24/7 video of "Shiney Happy People" by REM?

pain and suffering here is short term...VERY short term, you could be here to either serve a tiny simple purpose or to learn a lesson...or to be faced with a choice...or all of those
It doesn't change the fact that some people think everything that happens is because God willed it to happen. That is incorrect. God may have a purpose which will be fulfilled in the future, but that doesn't mean he specifically caused some wacko to hack up a child after raping them. The point is God doesn't necessarily have a hand in every good or bad thing, and believing that doesn't mean one doesn't believe in God.

Quizno

08-18-2009, 12:50 AM

congratulations dude. i don't know you at all but i'm really glad your grandma's okay! if believing in God helps you in life, by all means continue :cheers:

RoseCity07

08-18-2009, 01:34 AM

Good for you, glad your grandma is ok.

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 01:57 AM

There is a difference between believing in God, and believing he's responsible for cherry picked good things.

It doesn't change the fact that some people think everything that happens is because God willed it to happen. That is incorrect. God may have a purpose which will be fulfilled in the future, but that doesn't mean he specifically caused some wacko to hack up a child after raping them. The point is God doesn't necessarily have a hand in every good or bad thing, and believing that doesn't mean one doesn't believe in God.
I agree with all of this...

although I believe in what NDEers say, "God" is not a single entity at all...he is everyone and everything..."He" can't really will anything so to speak...

"God" is just a term used to describe our true selves as far as I am concerned...the part of us that is trapped in the flesh...

halffttime

08-18-2009, 02:08 AM

I don't believe in God because there are so many contradictions with God. How come God let's some ppl die while others live? Some ppl are terrible, disgusting pricks God let's live and 'good' ppl sometimes perish for no reason. I doubt the divine punishment thing. It's superstition.

i used to be a big god believer, then i went through an emo stage in high school and stopped believing. but now i'm really convinced that there is a god or atleast a higher being, and i'm not talking about the god/jesus in the bible. the only reasoon i do believe in a god is cause, i can't imagine how science could explain the feeling you get during those special moments in your life. whether it be your first child being born, or the pain you would feel inside if you lost your whole family..

Penny37

08-18-2009, 02:11 AM

I'm glad your grandmother is ok, and you should be thankful for that.

But saying this is why you believe in God, what do you believe when you hear a story like this?

What about 9-11, what about the hundreds of horrible things that happen to innocent people on a daily basis? Just doesn't make any sense why one example of something good would reaffirm your faith but the thousands of negative occurrences you overlook. Does 'God' not have a hand in these also?

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in. My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 02:17 AM

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in. My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein
SO TRUE...

I will admitt that I am guilty of that with my own freinds...it is like I am scared to pass along something nice because I don't want them to think I am a religious nut job or something...

this is part of why I really hate the type of athiests and agnostics that constantly feel the need to bash religion...it is upsetting...I wish people could keep that stuff to themselves...

Randy

08-18-2009, 02:24 AM

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

1. It's called the first amendment, dumbass. That's why there is no god in public schools. Don't like it? Send your kids to a private school.
2. Almost 90%, about 280,000,00, of Americans claim to be part of a religion regardless of which one. I guess that mind boggling number of 2,000,000 Atheists are to blame for angering god, and thus, ruining the world. That seems logical. :rolleyes: Go f*ck yourself Ben Stein.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 02:24 AM

Why do people hate God?

iamgine

08-18-2009, 02:25 AM

God has his own view on things and we shouldn't be too bothered by the things we can't understand.

John 21:20
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

Randy

08-18-2009, 02:26 AM

this is part of why I really hate the type of athiests and agnostics that constantly feel the need to bash religion...it is upsetting...I wish people could keep that stuff to themselves...

And guess what? That article bashes Atheists. Sh*t goes both ways.

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 02:28 AM

And guess what? That article bashes Atheists. Sh*t goes both ways.
it doesn't bash athiests it bashes those that "trash God"...

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 02:30 AM

1. It's called the first amendment, dumbass. That's why there is no god in public schools. Don't like it? Send your kids to a private school.
2. Almost 90%, about 280,000,00, of Americans claim to be part of a religion regardless of which one. I guess that mind boggling number of 2,000,000 Atheists are to blame for angering god, and thus, ruining the world. That seems logical. :rolleyes: Go f*ck yourself Ben Stein.

Amen :oldlol:

This guy is trying to claim all of the negative things that happen in the world are a result of us shunning God? :wtf:

How many destructive wars/crusades and bloody inquistions have been waged in his name? Hell, you have nutjobs now strapping bombs to themselves screaming for Allah.

But everything would be peachy if we allowed prayer in schools? Blow me.

Randy

08-18-2009, 02:30 AM

it doesn't bash athiests it bashes those that "trash God"...

It basically says that Atheists are to blame because they're making god angry and that they're wrong for not caring if they joke about god. The thing is, they don't care. It's like if I made a joke about Michael Jackson. He's dead, I don't care.

Did you hear Michael died of food poisoning?
He did?
Yeah. They found twelve year old nuts in his stomach.

ROFL

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 02:31 AM

some of you missed the gist of his message...

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 02:36 AM

It basically says that Atheists are to blame because they're making god angry and that they're wrong for not caring if they joke about god. The thing is, they don't care. It's like if I made a joke about Michael Jackson. He's dead, I don't care.

Did you hear Michael died of food poisoning?
He did?
Yeah. They found twelve year old nuts in his stomach.

ROFL

the point of his message is that it feels like people are so damn scared about what others think about them that they refuse to give God a chance, or they refuse to at least listen to the message being sent even if they don't believe...they are too worried about thier friends making fun of them so instead of being humble they say things like..."prayer in schools?...BLOW ME!!!"...(now he looks cool to his friends)

dashoebox

08-18-2009, 02:36 AM

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in. My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

i still hold my ideals and am skeptical about religion and God, but i have to say this is very empowering and there is some point in what Ben Stein writes. Also the debate about God's existence will never end so please people stop bickering; either you believe in God or you don't. that is all.

Penny37

08-18-2009, 02:36 AM

Amen :oldlol:

This guy is trying to claim all of the negative things that happen in the world are a result of us shunning God? :wtf:

How many destructive wars/crusades and bloody inquistions have been waged in his name? Hell, you have nutjobs now strapping bombs to themselves screaming for Allah.

But everything would be peachy if we allowed prayer in schools? Blow me.
Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed.
Everyone sins, nobody is perfect.

Yeah, religion has brought a lot of bad things into this world but what about all the good that it's created? Can we acknowledge that?

The hundreds and thousands of missionaries out in the third world helping orphans and widows. The millions and millions of dollars annually donated by the Church to the many needs.

Without Christianity the world would go to Hell. It's as simple as that.

Do I believe that everything would be perfect if prayer was allowed back in schools? No. Obviously not. But you can't argue the fact that there is less and less morality in kids these days and there is a correlation to the fact that less and less people are attending church.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 02:37 AM

Why do people get so angry when "God" is mentioned?

Ben Jordan

08-18-2009, 02:37 AM

some of you missed the gist of his message...
You can choose not to answer this question...I really don't mean to put you on the spot, and it may be kind of personal, so I understand if you don't respond but.

Why are you religious?

(I assume you are)

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 02:40 AM

You can choose not to answer this question...I really don't mean to put you on the spot, and it may be kind of personal, so I understand if you don't respond but.

Why are you religious?

(I assume you are)
I am not...

I am an agnostic-thiest

I have no religion...I am more spiritual

I study the words of NDEers...(near death expierence)...those that have flat lined in hospitals and lived to tell their story...there are hundreds of them and they are too amazing to just disregard...

read of if you care to, it "might" make you feel different:

http://www.near-death.com/

there is a decent story of a priest who died and came back and decided to quit his teachings right away...

red the section on religion...there is no correct religion to these people

Penny37

08-18-2009, 02:42 AM

It basically says that Atheists are to blame because they're making god angry and that they're wrong for not caring if they joke about god. The thing is, they don't care. It's like if I made a joke about Michael Jackson. He's dead, I don't care.

Did you hear Michael died of food poisoning?
He did?
Yeah. They found twelve year old nuts in his stomach.

ROFL
I really don't think he's blaming atheists for anything.
I think he's annoyed at the fact that so many of us are blaming God for everything corrupt in the world when we banish God from our lives, our country, our world, anyways.

Nobody has a definite answer of why people suffer. It could be many.
My personal opinion is that we were given free will because of how much God loves us. He gave us the CHOICE to love Him. And yet we go around making dumb mistakes (myself included) and try to blame God for it. Also, without suffering we would never learn from our mistakes. Kinda like parenting.

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 02:43 AM

*ALL OF THESE PEOPLE FLAT LINED IN A HOSPITAL*

Doctrine and creed and race mean nothing. No matter what we believe we were all children joined under one God. The only rule is God's true law: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (May Eulitt)

God does not care which religion is best. God does not care what religion people practice. They are all a blooming facet of the whole. All religions refer to the same God. (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

One man who had a near-death experience realized that the "God" of his religious background wasn't anything like the reality. He learned that it doesn't matter if people call him God, Allah, Great Spirit or whatever, he is one and the same. (Dr. Liz Dale)

Everyone, religious or not, believing in God or not, transitions to the spirit world as part of the natural process of life. Just as one does not need to be religious to live in the physical world, one does not need to profess a particular faith to live in the spirit world. (Nora Spurgin)

Heaven is about deeds, not creeds. Therefore, persons of many cultures and religions form the societies of heaven. (Emanuel Swedenborg)

Religious beliefs have little to do with what we experience in the transition from one realm to another, except that we are allowed to see briefly the teacher or guru that we followed. Regardless of cultural or religious beliefs, we have the same basic experience at death. (Betty Bethards)

God is not dependent on our belief, for our belief or disbelief in God does not affect God - only us. (Dr. PMH Atwater)

God cares little about our religious affiliation or church membership. Love is not limited to any one religion or even religion at all. Religions are cultural institutions but love is universal. (Kevin Williams)

Kenneth was born and raised a Southern Baptist. As a child, he first made his commitment to Christ and was baptized with water. He was a member of the church all his life. He was saved, on the path toward heaven, a believer, a follower of Jesus, and he knew this assured him a place in heaven. Nevertheless, he had a NDE and it sent him straight to hell. (Rev. Kenneth Hagin)

God is not a member of any church or religion. It is the churches and the religions that are members within the vastness and the glory that is God. There is no one religion just as there is no chosen people or person, nor any single way of regarding what cannot be fully comprehended. We are all sons of God in the sense that we are all souls of God's creation, without gender, without form, without nationality, complete and whole and perfect as we explore the never-endingness of God's wonderment. (Dr. PMH Atwater)

Having faith in Christ doesn't matter as much as having the faith of Christ. It is foolish to think that Jesus will carry your cross for you because he taught people that they must take up their own cross. Having the faith of Christ means to practice unconditional love. (Kevin Williams)

There is a lot of solid evidence in the Bible itself that the Bible has serious and devastating errors in it. (Kevin Williams)

Ben Jordan

08-18-2009, 02:43 AM

I am not...

I am an agnostic-thiest

I have no religion...I am more spiritual

I study the words of NDEers...(near death expierence)...those that have flat lined in hospitals and lived to tell their story...there are hundreds of them and they are too amazing to just disregard...

read of if you care to, it "might" make you feel different:

http://www.near-death.com/

there is a decent story of a priest who died and came back and decided to quit his teachings right away...

red the section on religion...there is no correct religion to these people
thanks for the link, now I've got my reading material for the night.

Penny37

08-18-2009, 02:44 AM

It's naive to equate religion(specifically Christianity) with morality. It's not like atheists and agnostics tend to also be anarchists or something. Atheists/agnostics can be, and often are, just as caring and sympathetic as devout religious persons, with equally strong moral compasses.
I completely agree. I take back my statement.
But I still believe that Christians do a lot of good in this world and to say that the world is better without religion is ludicrous.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 02:48 AM

Some people don't like to accept their own mistakes or others mistakes and blame God for what they've done.

If God is real why is there so much vilolence and hunger in this world. Why does God allow such injustice in this world. If God is real then why.....

Plz, stop. *shakes head*

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 02:49 AM

Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed.
Everyone sins, nobody is perfect.

Yeah, religion has brought a lot of bad things into this world but what about all the good that it's created? Can we acknowledge that?

The hundreds and thousands of missionaries out in the third world helping orphans and widows. The millions and millions of dollars annually donated by the Church to the many needs.

Without Christianity the world would go to Hell. It's as simple as that.

Do I believe that everything would be perfect if prayer was allowed back in schools? No. Obviously not. But you can't argue the fact that there is less and less morality in kids these days and there is a correlation to the fact that less and less people are attending church.

If you look throughout history, I'd say it's pretty clear that organized religion has created a lot more division and destruction than good. And I hate to break it to you but there are billions of people in the world who are not Christian and they're not living in hell.

The founding fathers created a separation of church and state because they wanted this nation to be ruled by reason and logical, not blind silly superstition. Instead of witch trials lead by religious zealots we should have trials by jury governed by law.

Morality isn't solely a result of religion or attending church. And it's not exactly like the church and its officials have been the paradigm of virtue in recent times. Kind of hypocritical to try to instill ethereal values and morality in children while molesting them, no?

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 03:01 AM

You see, this is tied in to the notion that God is omnipotent and "all-powerful." All-powerful. Absolutely no limit to his power, whatsoever. So, this caring, loving God, allows his own devout worshippers to be raped and murdered when it's completely in his all-encompassing power to stop it?

Oh, let me guess. "God works in mysterious ways." The religious person's ubiquitous deus ex machina for basically saying "I don't f*cking understand it either."
to thier defense you have to admitt that if there really was a Christian God that life on Earth would be pointless if it wasn't a mystery...

if we all "knew" exactly what we are here for or why everything happens then it would most certainly defeat the entire purpose for being here...

Ben Jordan

08-18-2009, 03:02 AM

Also, primetime I find it interesting that you consider yourself somewhat spiritual.

IDK if you have any interest in Indians, but this past fall/winter I attended my first Dakota "sweat". Basically what happens is huge rocks (called tonkas) are cast in a huge bonfire so they are literally glowing hot. Approx 10 feet away from the bonfire is the lodge. the lodge is a misleading name - its about 4 and a half feet tall and the dimensions are probably 10'x10'. The lodge is made up of hides, rocks, logs, whatever else will hold it up. Anyways it fit about 5 people comfortably, but ~15 or so came in. The lodge seals up so that no heat can escape -- the tonkas are placed in the middle of the lodge, and the 15 or so people in there sit inside the perimeter of the lodge. The leader of the sweat douses the rocks with gallons and gallons of water, making it so humid that you literally are dripping sweat...hence the name.

That being said, there are many things that are done in the sweat that I'll spare you from, but one main thing that intrigued me was how they always used the term Mitakuye oyasin at the beginning and end of each prayer. For all intents and purposes, this means all my relations. Basically what I'm getting at here is how the Indians don't care who you pray to, we are all brothers in the end, and we go to the same place.

haha, didn't mean to ramble on there but I think it's cool stuff.

EDIT: and for what it's worth, I did smoke the peace pipe.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 03:08 AM

You see, this is tied in to the notion that God is omnipotent and "all-powerful." All-powerful. Absolutely no limit to his power, whatsoever. So, this caring, loving God, allows his own devout worshippers to be raped and murdered when it's completely in his all-encompassing power to stop it?

Oh, let me guess. "God works in mysterious ways." The religious person's ubiquitous deus ex machina for basically saying "I don't f*cking understand it either."

There's this new guy now days that is against God. He's sometimes referred to as Satan.

Butters

08-18-2009, 03:17 AM

if we all "knew" exactly what we are here for or why everything happens then it would most certainly defeat the entire purpose for being here...

Speak for yourself:lol

U got Served

08-18-2009, 03:19 AM

Yeah, but God is "all-powerful", right? If Satan is anything less than also all-powerful, God should be able to equally vanquish him and all his attempts to do evil on Earth. I have never ever ever heard of Satan being portrayed as God's equal. So that argument is moot.

Next.

You know that Christians believe that God gives you a choice right? You choose your way. On the other hand Satan does not respect your choice. If God never gave us a choice and just "made" us do the right thing then we would be like robots wouldn't we?

KoolKat

08-18-2009, 03:23 AM

Good for you, glad your grandma is ok.

This, hopefully she'll get well soon.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 04:04 AM

If I believed in God in the traditional sense I'd say we are already like robots. People always say "free will", but think about this: God is supposedly omnipotent and our creator. He's the architect of our being down to every last atom. Since he's all knowing, he knows EXACTLY what we're going to do in every given situation.

When designing someone's brain, he knows EXACTLY how that person will react given external stimuli, choice, impulse, etc. When he creates someone that will eventually become a r*pist, he knows that eons before he even creates the person.

That's where the "free will" argument falls apart. It isn't really free will if you're taking the exact path God designed you to take, and knew you would take trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions of years ago.

If we're all just sorta "seeds" that God sends out into the world and has no idea what we're going to do then he isn't omnipotent.

Edit - Also, you didn't even address my post. You just changed the subject.

Why God doesn't vanish Satan? That will eventually happen at its time. Ever heard of the Armageddon? and the whole designing ****** thing, you choose to be a ******. You choose to be who you are. God doesn't make you do something you dont want to do. Everyone has a choice, God doesn't "design" your life. Again, if he did "design" our lives and "forced" us to follow his ways then we would be considered robots without the knowing what is wrong and what is right.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 04:18 AM

So God is not omnipotent then.

"It will happen in time." What's the wait for? Remember, he's "all-powerful." God can destroy evil faster than our synapses can fire a billion times over.

Why doesn't God destroy Satan? Evil? Are you seriously this naive? What about the souls of those who have sinned. God will judge both Satan and his followers. Destroy satan? That means destroying his followers. He's giving the world a lot of chances to change their ways.

TheAnchorman

08-18-2009, 04:20 AM

I don't think God structures our lives to his liking, but he knows the future just as well as the past or present. The dimension of time is not omnipresent, you know.

I don't think we can ever understand God's nature, regardless. It is like us looking into a fish in an aquarium, and the fish is looking back at us. It cannot comprehend our faces; the animal only possesses the most basic reflexes that allow it to survive and not to think. We are the fish.

SCY

08-18-2009, 04:22 AM

Do I believe that everything would be perfect if prayer was allowed back in schools? No. Obviously not. But you can't argue the fact that there is less and less morality in kids these days and there is a correlation to the fact that less and less people are attending church.

Umm, sure you can. The country and the world's no worse than it was back in the day. The "good ol' days" never happened. Take a look at US crime rates nowadays, the lowest they've been since the early 70's. When you go back further than that, there's less crime, but that comes with unequal rights for women and minorities. You could easily argue today being the height of morality for this country.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 04:27 AM

morality? more gays and lesbians everywhere. the porn industry growing. the music videos......morality now days is something that cant be argued.

SCY

08-18-2009, 04:29 AM

morality? more gays and lesbians everywhere. the porn industry growing. the music videos......morality now days is something that cant be argued.

Yeah that stuff is really terrible. We need to go back to the good ol' days where we lynched ******s and women stayed in the kitchen.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 04:30 AM

Yeah that stuff is really terrible. We need to go back to the good ol' days where we lynched ******s and women stayed in the kitchen.

Yeah I'm sure that's what the bible instructs us to do. :cheers:

SCY

08-18-2009, 04:34 AM

Yeah I'm sure that's what the bible instructs us to do. :cheers:

It doesn't really matter what the hell the Bible instructs when most Christians carry and follow their own misguided set of morals.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 04:38 AM

It doesn't really matter what the hell the Bible instructs when most Christians carry and follow their own misguided set of morals.

Really? prove it.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 04:47 AM

No offense, but it's apparent that my thinking is a little more advanced than yours. Why would God give multiple chances when he's OMNIPOTENT!? He ALREADY KNOWS if someone is going to change their ways or not. Get it? We're not talking about a bank manager here. We're talking about the supreme being in all of existence, who knows everything that has ever happened and will ever happen, and who has unlimited power.
So in the meantime he just lets some of his most devout followers suffer atrociously terrible experiences. That's so good of him. Destroy Satan AND his followers? Sounds reasonable for an all-powerful deity of the utmost good to do. Or hey, he could just vanquish Satan ONLY! You know what they say about cutting the head off...

I'M naive, yet you believe in something that you were likely RAISED to believe(i.e. brainwashed), which features no basis in reality, and isn't supported by any proof whatsoever. Oh, but wait, God is being "mysterious." He's into that sh*t. Next thing you know Jesus is an emo.

You saying God already knows who's going to change their ways and who isn't means that we are robots. We are not. We choose who we want to be, we choose what we want to do. We choose our own ways. If you choose to sin, that's your choice. God can't make you do something against your will. Let me guess, when the ****** raped, God forced him? :no:
When Hitler killed the jews. Did God forced him? :no: And are you seriously saying there's no "proof whatsoever" of everything I believe in? Oh no!
and all this time I thought religion was by faith. :confusedshrug:

SCY

08-18-2009, 04:48 AM

Really? prove it.

There's no way to prove any of this sh!t, because morality is opinionated. But just take a look at the teachings of Jesus and compare them to the most vocal group of Christians in the country, the religious right, and tell me how they've matched up over the years.

Going back to this:

more gays and lesbians everywhere. the porn industry growing. the music videos

All this stuff you mentioned for one thing, is largely dependent on the mass media which we didn't have in the 60's and back. It also doesn't hurt anyone. Opposed to gays, ignore them. Don't approve of porn or skanky music videos, don't watch them. The things I consider immoral are things that you know, have a negative effect on other people, ya know like murder, rape, racism?

TheAnchorman

08-18-2009, 05:00 AM

Prove that God exists.
I cannot look at the world and universe around us, and how unlikely life came to be, and how unlikely the setup of this universe is without the involvement of a higher being of some sort.

Call it faith or whatever you want, but I stick by it regardless of anyone else's opinion.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 05:03 AM

So God is not omnipotent then. Keep ducking this basic truth.

God can to make you do something against your will. He's "all-powerful", right?

Faith, lol. Another dues ex machina for saying "I don't really understand, either."

Did you read any of previous posts? God gives you a choice. Satan doesn't respect it. Can he? sure. Will he? No. Otherwise we would be robots. 3rd or 4th time i've said this.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 05:07 AM

SCY

08-18-2009, 05:11 AM

So you can't prove that "most Christians carry and follow their own misguided set of morals."

OK.

That's your best retort? That's it, I'm done arguing with your fragmented thoughts that originated from your dad at the dinner table and the O'Reilly Factor.

plowking

08-18-2009, 05:12 AM

U got Served

08-18-2009, 05:17 AM

That's your best retort? That's it, I'm done arguing with your fragmented thoughts that originated from your dad at the dinner table and the O'Reilly Factor.

yes, my dad. nothing from the bible. :applause:

AmoebaD

08-18-2009, 05:22 AM

i don't understand how people get mad at others for whatever kind of belief system they have. until it really, REALLY influences public policy or how you live your life, why do you really care what other people believe?

i am agnostic, if there is a god, he's there, awesome. its not going to make me change my life. if mom wants company to go to mass, i'll go, im not averse to church. if homeboy wants to believe his grandma is alive because of a miracle, thats really great.

this is supposed to be a secular, colorblind nation, but lets be real its a christian nation. i don't want to push my beliefs or ideals on anyone, I just hope the major belief system of the day does not intertwine with how our country is run. as our nation becomes more diverse in belief and population, i hope every side in the religious debate, from atheists to roman catholics just leave the other groups alone. atheists are just as guilty of pushing propaganda as the other cults.

**** laissez faire economics, our country should have laissez faire morality. people's visions of morality are all socially constructed anyway.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 05:24 AM

And did you read my posts? Again, I'm on a higher wavelength than you, no offense.

God is ALL-POWERFUL. When he designs you, he already knows EXACTLY what you will do, down to every last insignifigant nuance of your life. He knows how you're going to wipe your @ss, and the exact pattern your turd is going to take as is spirals down into your septic tank. He knows how your turd is going to affect life on the other side of the planet a BILLION years from now.

If God is truly all-powerful, and is as caring as people like you assert, he would vanquish all evil from the universe. That would certainly be within the realm of power for a being with absolutely no limits. So, we're left with a few possibilities as to why this is not the case.

A. God is not all-powerful
B. Satan is as equally powerful as God. Not likely, given he was one of God's subordinates before becoming "Satan." Also, there has never been any indication that Satan was AS POWERFUL as God.
C. God just doesn't care about us as much as so many people would like us to believe.
D. All this sh*t basically amounts to being a fairy tale.

Again. God gives you a choice. You choose if you want to sin or not. We're the ones who choose who we want to be and which way we want to go. Let me guess, God is also making you read my posts. God will vanquish all evil from the universe. He will judge Satan and the ones who chose him over God. (2nd time I've said this)

Butters

08-18-2009, 06:49 AM

It's best just to say "I don't know":violin:

NBACha

08-18-2009, 07:29 AM

Lebron23

08-18-2009, 08:04 AM

Praise the Lord!!!

Take Your Lumps

08-18-2009, 08:30 AM

Glad to hear about your grandma but that's not a miracle.

An amputee's limb regenerating after prayer....now that's a miracle.

Call me when that happens.

Brunch@Five

08-18-2009, 08:30 AM

I cannot look at the world and universe around us, and how unlikely life came to be, and how unlikely the setup of this universe is without the involvement of a higher being of some sort.

Call it faith or whatever you want, but I stick by it regardless of anyone else's opinion.
Seeing that the universe is bigger than one can imagine, I guess the probability that there wouldn't be a place where life is possible is lower than vice versa.

If indeed designed, the designer has a really bad quote of success

RaininThrees

08-18-2009, 09:06 AM

I don't believe in miracles. Anything can happen based on statistics.

People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

Brunch@Five

08-18-2009, 09:34 AM

People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.

I read yesterday that 57.7% of all statistics are fake

supersmashbros

08-18-2009, 10:48 AM

Any thread on God is bound to have a lot of replies.

Take Your Lumps

08-18-2009, 10:50 AM

I wonder what God's inbox looks like.

The guy should really look into outsourcing.

Penny37

08-18-2009, 12:01 PM

You still aren't getting it, and I seem to be giving your God a lot more credit than you are. Do you just not understand what "omnipotent" means? GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING. You deny that? Then he is not omnipotent? Stop ducking the question. Is he omnipotent or isn't he?

God knows every choice you will make, under every circumstance, influenced by every emotion, longer ago than is even fathomable by the human mind. You can change your mind about something 1,000 times, and God already knew what you would settle on when he designed you trillions*trillions of years ago.
This is one of the things I had a really hard time grasping, as well.
It's pre-destination vs. free will.
I obviously don't have all the answers but in my opinion, just because God KNOWS what we decide doesn't mean that we still don't CHOOSE.

If my kids one day smoke, drink, and hang out with the wrong crowd, I know what will eventually happen to them. But I still give them the choice to think.

That's the best example I could come up with :P

Penny37

08-18-2009, 12:04 PM

There's no way to prove any of this sh!t, because morality is opinionated. But just take a look at the teachings of Jesus and compare them to the most vocal group of Christians in the country, the religious right, and tell me how they've matched up over the years.

Going back to this:

All this stuff you mentioned for one thing, is largely dependent on the mass media which we didn't have in the 60's and back. It also doesn't hurt anyone. Opposed to gays, ignore them. Don't approve of porn or skanky music videos, don't watch them. The things I consider immoral are things that you know, have a negative effect on other people, ya know like murder, rape, racism?
I would argue that pornography has a negative effect on people. But thats a personal opinion and can be debated.

I would say gays have a negative effect at times, what with AIDS and all.

Kids today do NOT have as strong values as kids did even 10 years ago. They see violence on the news and in the media and think it's okay. The media is numbing their senses.

I agree. The mass media is largely responsible for it but the fact remains that more kids are worshiping Brangelina and less are turning to God and there are obvious repurcussions.

Eldrunko247

08-18-2009, 12:15 PM

I wonder what God's inbox looks like.

The guy should really look into outsourcing.
:lol

boozehound

08-18-2009, 12:21 PM

good story...

to those trying to dump on the story:

life itself is a complete miracle
no, its not. A miracle requires supernatural explanation of events. the actual stages of gamete formation and cell division that is life require no supernatural, only natural, explanation.

boozehound

08-18-2009, 12:23 PM

I would argue that pornography has a negative effect on people. But thats a personal opinion and can be debated.

I would say gays have a negative effect at times, what with AIDS and all.

Kids today do NOT have as strong values as kids did even 10 years ago. They see violence on the news and in the media and think it's okay. The media is numbing their senses.

I agree. The mass media is largely responsible for it but the fact remains that more kids are worshiping Brangelina and less are turning to God and there are obvious repurcussions.
what is this 1983? If you think AIDS is a "gay" disease you are fooling yourself. The largest growing populations with it are straight women (in the US). the aids pandemic in africa has nothing to do with gay sex, but is entirely derived from the sex industry and the common occurence of men having extra-marital sex.

phoenix18

08-18-2009, 12:48 PM

Say what you will but I've never had an atheist/agnostic come to my door at 9 in the morning trying to convert me.
Convert you to what?

Eldrunko247

08-18-2009, 01:18 PM

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship Nick and Jessica and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where Nick and Jessica came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in. My Best Regards.

Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein
This is the gayest thing I've ever read. So God doesn't like us anymore because his feelings are hurt? Didn't the Bible Thumpers vote in old Bushy? A supposed "Christian" president. At least pretend that is. Isn't man responsible for Katrina? They built the levies knew about the levies way before Katrina hit and Bush was responsible for the scale of the catastrophe by kicking back for like 3-4 days before deciding to send in any help because the people were poor and black. Again, the Jesus freaks voted this guy in. It's been nothing but bible thumpin Jesus freak b'ull**** for the past 8/9 years under Bush. Wars, turmoil, catastrophes, you name it. :no:

Killer_Instinct

08-18-2009, 01:32 PM

For all the atheist on the internet, I never(to my knowledge) run across any in person.

boozehound

08-18-2009, 01:45 PM

For all the atheist on the internet, I never(to my knowledge) run across any in person.
where do you live? also, this shows that you just assume that everyone around you is a Xtian.

Killer_Instinct

08-18-2009, 01:59 PM

where do you live? also, this shows that you just assume that everyone around you is a Xtian.

Maybe I do. Most individuals that I associate with believe in a higher power, attend church ext.

For the record, I really don't consider myself a Christian. I believe in God, heaven, ext. but I don't regulary(if ever) attend church, or practice many christian beliefs.

ReggieCurry

08-18-2009, 02:15 PM

You nonbelievers don't know what God is all about, the truth is in the Bible. This fall is the start of the Great Tribulation and if you don't repent for your sins and obey God's commandments you will go to the Lake of Fire for eternity. Now is not the time to play games, God has made his existence known in creation...."For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."- Romans 1:20. The reason for all the corruption in the world and all the suffering is because of sin, but have faith in Jesus and obey God's commandments and you will recieve eternal life......So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. What can be seen lasts only for a time, but what cannot be seen lasts forever.-2 Corinthians 4:18

ReggieCurry

08-18-2009, 02:37 PM

Why do people get so angry when "God" is mentioned?

1. The suffering of life(most blame God, or ask "why doesn't he do anything?").

2. Lovers of the world, and all the things in it(they don't want anything to do with God).

3. Doubt/Ignorance(they're deceived by Satan's tricks and don't know what to believe in).

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 03:15 PM

no, its not. A miracle requires supernatural explanation of events. the actual stages of gamete formation and cell division that is life require no supernatural, only natural, explanation.

Exactly, the creation of life is a physical phenomena, it's not the result of divine intervention. You don't pray to the clouds and then a few seconds later a baby pops out of thin air, now that would be a miracle. The way it really happens is male and female genes have to merge and a process of cell division/replication occurs until a human embryo is fully formed. This is all observable biological processes, and in all this I doubt a wrinkled hand from the sky touches the child and miraculously gives it life.

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 03:17 PM

ReggieCurry

08-18-2009, 03:19 PM

Why is the 'tribulation' starting this fall of all times? And where is this lake of fire located exactly? Do I have to RSVP?

Its God's will(sorry, no more NBA or pleasures). And the lake of fire is located in the heart of the earth.....what does RSVP mean?

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 03:25 PM

Its God's will(sorry, no more NBA or pleasures)...... the lake of fire is located in the heart of the earth. And what does RSVP mean?

Just curious how you, an insignificant mortal, are privy to the 'will' and machinations of the highest authority.

And everyone on Earth is a sinner in one way or another, don't know if there's enough space in the center of the Earth for everyone :oldlol:

RSVP- look it up.

U got Served

08-18-2009, 03:28 PM

yeah i'm sure christ died because all of us are perfect angels.

ReggieCurry

08-18-2009, 03:33 PM

Just curious how you, an insignificant mortal, are privy to the 'will' and machinations of the highest authority.

And everyone on Earth is a sinner in one way or another, don't know if there's enough space in the center of the Earth for everyone :oldlol:

RSVP- look it up.

God is in control, we're the generation that Christ said would not pass away, he is coming in a few years(the reason is because the NWO, which is the Beast in Revelations, will rule for 42 months), but before then there will be suffering like there has never been before. Also, those who repented for their sins and who's names are written in the Book of Life will not perish with the others, they will recieve eternal life.

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 03:41 PM

God is in control, we're the generation that Christ said would not pass away, he is coming in a few years(the reason is because the NWO, which is the Beast in Revelations, will rule for 42 months), but before then there will be suffering like there has never been before. Also, those who repented for their sins and who's names are written in the Book of Life will not perish with the others, they will recieve eternal life.

Wow, sounds like the plot of a great summer blockbuster, wonder what the budget for this one will be :eek:

I can see it now, got the title and everything worked out- 'Judgment Day: Payback's a bit*h' or we could just keep it simple, call it 'The Book of Life'. Very catchy.

What else you got?

ReggieCurry

08-18-2009, 03:50 PM

Wow, sounds like the plot of a great summer blockbuster, wonder what the budget for this one will be :eek:

I can see it now, got the title and everything worked out- 'Judgment Day: Payback's a bit*h' or we could just keep it simple, call it 'The Book of Life'. Very catchy.

What else you got?

When you hear and see mass deaths this fall, along with military everywhere, you will not be laughing then.

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 03:52 PM

When you hear and see mass deaths this fall, along with military everywhere, you will not be laughing then.

What days will this mass death orgy be taking place? Might decide to take an early vacation :D

boozehound

08-18-2009, 03:58 PM

When you hear and see mass deaths this fall, along with military everywhere, you will not be laughing then.
so, when fall comes and goes (Dec 22nd), will you stop believing (or at least spewing nonsense)? Of course you wont, because you are delusional.

shlver

08-18-2009, 04:28 PM

Believing in God is the same thing as saying God exists. By not believing in God, God doesn't exist because God hasn't been proven to exist. If something has been proven to exist (like the fact that the Earth is round not flat) then not believing in it doesn't change reality. In the case of God, not believing in it means it doesn't exist, and believing in it doesn't make it exist in reality.
No it isn't. Now shut up.

MeloMike

08-18-2009, 05:05 PM

I guess it's pretty tough for some people to just put aside their individual beliefs to be happy for someone's grandma surviving. Some cold people here :ohwell:

Congrats bro, hope she remains healthy for a good amount of years to come :cheers:

shlver

08-18-2009, 05:12 PM

Thank you for the kind comments everybody.

shlver

08-18-2009, 05:15 PM

Condolences? I must have missed something, I thought she got better?
lol. I used the wrong word.

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 09:32 PM

no, its not. A miracle requires supernatural explanation of events. the actual stages of gamete formation and cell division that is life require no supernatural, only natural, explanation.
last I heard scientist are still clueless as to how the first cell was created...

but that isn't what I ment...

I ment that the fact that ANYTHING EXISTS AT ALL is a complete miracle...

it is completely unexplainable...

even if the big band becomes a scientific law mankind will still be clueless as to how it started or what caused it...or how anything in it ever came to be in the first place...

vapid

08-18-2009, 09:37 PM

last I heard scientist are still clueless as to how the first cell was created...

but that isn't what I ment...

I ment that the fact that ANYTHING EXISTS AT ALL is a complete miracle...

it is completely unexplainable...

even if the big band becomes a scientific law mankind will still be clueless as to how it started or what caused it...or how anything in it ever came to be in the first place...
In an infinite universe the possibility of life seems pretty likely.

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 09:41 PM

In an infinite universe the possibility of life seems pretty likely.

Evidence has been found from excursions to Mars that support the theory that life may have existed on the planet in the past. And that's just in our own galaxy, it's not crazy to think in the other innumerable galaxies there exists some form of life.

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 09:43 PM

In an infinite universe the possibility of life seems pretty likely.
ugghh...

agreed, that isn't what I was talking about at all...

I am trying to say that the fact ANYTHING exists at all is a miracle...as in ANYTHING...a rock, an atom, ect...

if you buy into the big band well then how did the mass that it was composed of get here?...it is a miracle...

vapid

08-18-2009, 09:45 PM

DonDadda59

08-18-2009, 09:50 PM

ugghh...

agreed, that isn't what I was talking about at all...

I am trying to say that the fact ANYTHING exists at all is a miracle...as in ANYTHING...a rock, an atom, ect...

if you buy into the big band well then how did the mass that it was composed of get here?...it is a miracle...

If you're asking this question from a religious or philosophical perspective, couldn't I ask- where did God come from. If I'm to believe he is the catalyst of the 'miracle' that is life, who/what is the force that created him? And if you come back w/ the 'God is infinite, he's always been there, he'll always be there'... I can say the same exact thing about the components that make up the Universe.

Hawker

08-18-2009, 09:56 PM

Who said you cant pray in school? That's dumb. You can pray to yourself. You can do group prayer. You just cant do teacher-led prayer in public schools.

And if that was allowed, a teacher could say, "lets all pray to satan" or "lets all pray to the spaghetti monster"

RidonKs

08-18-2009, 10:00 PM

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 10:07 PM

If you're asking this question from a religious or philosophical perspective, couldn't I ask- where did God come from. If I'm to believe he is the catalyst of the 'miracle' that is life, who/what is the force that created him? And if you come back w/ the 'God is infinite, he's always been there, he'll always be there'... I can say the same exact thing about the components that make up the Universe.
YES!!!

very true...

but wouldn't you say that the fact that ANYTHING exists at all is a miracle???

(including whatever God or Gods you may beleive exist)

Science can only go so far until reaches a dead end..."how"...and then there is also the "why"...but the "why" isn't really nessesary unless you are a part of a certain religion...

edit: I shouldn't have said that, the "why" can be very important regardless of religious beliefs...

~primetime~

08-18-2009, 10:11 PM

NDEers also claim that there are MANY different "planes" or "deminsions" that all contain their own different science...

this universe we are on contains elements such as time/light/gravity/ect...other planes are very different than this one...the plane you go to when you die here is "timeless"...past/present/future all exist at once...they say it is a feeling that is indescribable...

it is possible for a human to travel along the astral plane though apparently...

d_white089

08-18-2009, 10:59 PM

Penny37

08-18-2009, 11:42 PM

In an infinite universe the possibility of life seems pretty likely.
Fact: The Universe had a beginning.
Fact: The Universe is NOT infinite.

Those are scientific facts.
The Universe is expanding constantly and so it can't be infinite.

Hawker

08-18-2009, 11:55 PM

Fact: The Universe had a beginning.
Fact: The Universe is NOT infinite.

Those are scientific facts.
The Universe is expanding constantly and so it can't be infinite.

That WOULD make it infinite b/c it is always expanding and never stopping.

DonDadda59

08-19-2009, 12:04 AM

That WOULD make it infinite b/c it is always expanding and never stopping.

beat me to it :oldlol:

~primetime~

08-19-2009, 12:16 AM

isn't there also the theory that the universe is warped and loops or something?

like if you left the Milky Way and kept going in a straight line forever eventualy you would end up back at the Milky Way?

BrilliantLegacy

08-19-2009, 12:36 AM

God haven't sent anything good to me yet.

~primetime~

08-19-2009, 12:38 AM

I've personally never bought this idea anyway. It's not like when you pass the outermost border of what we understand to be our universe you're just going to run into a brick wall. Space is the absence of matter, so I believe once you pass the borders of our known universe you're just going to run into more space infinitely in all directions.

I also find it pretty feasible that there have been numerous(possibly infinite) amounts of "big bangs" creating other universes, not in different dimensions or anything, just spread out over distances that the human mind cannot even fathom. That's why I hate the term universe. I think we really live in what amounts to be a multiverse.
"THIS" Universe has 10 dementions:

http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

a short video explaining all 10 dementions

fun to watch, but starts to get confusing...

vapid

08-19-2009, 12:58 AM

I said "in an infinite universe", which I felt was addressing the idea but at the same time not saying that our universe is necessarily infinite.

RainierBeachPoet

08-20-2009, 07:22 AM

God is love

supersmashbros

08-20-2009, 09:36 AM

Then why does he allow his followers to be raped?
Because he loves you...

ReggieCurry

08-20-2009, 12:45 PM

"Then the one who sits on the throne said,"And now I make all things new!" He also said to me, "Write this, because these words are true and can be trusted." And he said,"It is done! I am the first and the last, the beginning and the end. To anyone who is thristy I will give the right to drink from the spring of water of life without paying for it. Those who win the victory will receive this from me: I will be their God, and they will be my children. But cowards, traitors, preverts, murderers, the immoral, those who practice magic, those who worship idols, and all liars-the place for them is the lake of burning with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."- Revelation 21, 5.

This is for all the people who ask why does God allow people to do evil.

hippos

08-20-2009, 04:39 PM

"Those who practice MAGIC"?:oldlol:

And we're still supposed to think the Bible is relevant?

It's very relevant.

ReggieCurry

08-20-2009, 04:52 PM

"Those who practice MAGIC"?:oldlol:

And we're still supposed to think the Bible is relevant?

It means those who practice rituals and forms of sorcery.....its Satanism.

hippos

08-20-2009, 05:00 PM

Oh, so now we're INTERPRETING the Bible...I thought we weren't supposed to do that, but rather take it as the direct Word of God.:rolleyes:

How about this:

"His snorting throws out flashes of light... Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth."

Depends on the denomination as to how literal one takes the Bible.

ReggieCurry

08-20-2009, 05:05 PM

Oh, so now we're INTERPRETING the Bible...I thought we weren't supposed to do that, but rather take it as the direct Word of God.:rolleyes:

How about this:

"His snorting throws out flashes of light... Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth."

:oldlol: That's just the problem with you nonbelievers, you're IGNORANCE. Only true and wise believers know how to interpet the word of God.

ReggieCurry

08-20-2009, 05:24 PM

So you claim to understand God? Then you sir, must be a prophet.

Have fun in your fairy tale land where dragons roam. I'm sure sex with a unicorn is fantastic.

God gives us the wisdom to understand his word....when we ask.

juju151111

08-20-2009, 05:32 PM

My Grandma was going to have surgery with 90% of one of her arteries clogged today that had a 50% that she would get a stroke during surgery. My family were all praying for her health and for the surgery to go well. My Grandma entered the hospital at 7:30 a.m. and they did an MRI. The MRI showed that my Grandma's artery was clogged only 20%. The doctor thought the test was a mistake and repeated the MRI. I believe this is a miracle and I praise the Lord for what He has done. This has strengthened my faith in God and that He does perform miracles as long as we ask sincerely. I was just happy and wanted to let everyone know.
So wat about the millions of people who pray for someone like you did, but they still end up dead?? You make no damn sense really. It's like when people fall off buildings from the 6th floor or higher. You see reports of babies or other people falling and dying and when someone surivive "OMG miracle holy chuck" GTFO Throw 50 people off the 5th floor at the sametime, some will survive with broken bones and some will die. How is this a miracle??? It happens thats life. Your grandma survives today and yourf mom might die in a month. I gurentee you won't blame that on god. It will be the dev ils doing.:rolleyes:

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 05:33 PM

God is love
QFT

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 05:40 PM

Then why does he allow his followers to be raped?
so you believe that the only way there could be a God is if Earth was basically heaven itself?

Once again I have to ask, what would be the point of that? Why would "we" bother to make a world that is flawless and perfect in every way?...Why would "we" design it to where there are no quetions?

If Earth was a sinless love fest where all questions are answered already then there would be no point in its existance...

this is a school for us, and for God..."we" are God...and with an eternity at our hands "we" will live out every life that has ever been lived on this planet, so be careful what you do to others, because you are literally doing it to yourself...and that is the perfect karma...

Doomsday Dallas

08-20-2009, 05:57 PM

"we" are God...and with an eternity at our hands "we" will live out every life that has ever been lived on this planet, so be careful what you do to others, because you are literally doing it to yourself...and that is the perfect karma...

No... just No.

You might feel the pain you caused others after you die (watch the movie Flat Liners for the perfect example).

I hope you don't believe Humanity is just "One Soul" that has reincarnated 50+ Billion Times.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:09 PM

No... just No.

You might feel the pain you caused others after you die (watch the movie Flat Liners for the perfect example).

I hope you don't believe Humanity is just "One Soul" that has reincarnated 50+ Billion Times.
I believe that "God" is all of us...yes

I belive that "God" is everyone and everything...

I am not sure about the "one soul" theory but it would make sense to me as far as punishment goes...Hiltler will get what he deserves because he will live out the life of every human he killed...ect...

also, when you help someone else out, you will see it because you are helping yourself out...

I do think there is something to "we are all one in the same"...but yeah, that is just based on reading stuff from NDEers, I obvioulsy have no idea how deep that goes...

I noticed your phone is turned off btw, I went and got my car dude, give me a call...

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:10 PM

I believe that "God" is all of us...yes

I belive that "God" is everyone and everything...

I am not sure about the "one soul" theory but it would make sense to me as far as punishment goes...Hiltler will get what he deserves because he will live out the life of every human he killed...ect...

also, when you help someone else out, you will see it because you are helping yourself out...

I do think there is something to "we are all one in the same"...but yeah, that is just based on reading stuff from NDEers, I obvioulsy have no idea how deep taht goes...

I noticed your phone is turned off btw, I went and got my car dude, give me a call...
How do you come to these conclusions? Are you a Christian?

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:16 PM

How do you come to these conclusions? Are you a Christian?
reading the stories from NDEers...(near death expierences, people that have flat lined in hospitals and come back)

http://www.near-death.com/

it is the ONLY thing we have that is legit evidence IMO...no, it isn't proof, but many of the stories are unexplainable, and they are all very similiar...

I posted stuff about this in this thread earlier...

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:18 PM

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:20 PM

I'm am debating the very concept of God as most people believe it.

God is omnipotent, God is all-powerful. Nothing is beyond the realm of God's power, he can shatter stars faster than our synapes can fire.

He's the most caring, loving entity in all of existence. Yet, with limitless power, he allows he worshipers to suffer. And don't give me the "Satan" BS, because a being with infinite power can easily overtake a being with finite power.

And don't give me the "faith" BS either; you may as well say "I don't know."
I guess you are assuming I am Christian or something...

you are very wrong...

I do have faith though, and I also do not know at the same time...

you shouldn't get all angry and upset with Christians either...the majority of them just do not deserve it at all...

none of the major religions really deserve hatred, but all of them have their bad apples...

ashar008

08-20-2009, 06:21 PM

Read the Omega Point by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. It should pretty much shut up any atheist.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:23 PM

THIS video should shut up any athiest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhtjodjiQE

and there are hundereds more just like her...

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:23 PM

That is complete BS regurgitated from you parents.
You choose to use that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent(stated in the Bible) in your debate as a way to contradict what God is doing in this world and then you turn around and discredit something(stated in the Bible also) that just explained your contradiction.

KoolKat

08-20-2009, 06:26 PM

THIS video should shut up any athiest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhtjodjiQE

and there are hundereds more just like her...

Wow, that shut me up.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:27 PM

PT: I have never assumed your religion, nor have I ever cared.
I don't understand why you came at me with all that "Satan, faith, ect" post then???

It seemed like you were on a mission to dissprove the Bible or something...

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:29 PM

THIS video should shut up any athiest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhtjodjiQE

and there are hundereds more just like her...

And hundreds of others like her just die, it's nothing special.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:30 PM

Wow, that shut me up.
it is 8 minutes long...

you replied in 3 minutes...:ohwell:

typical athiest...doesn't want to listen or even try to listen...they are set in their belief that this universe just all magically appeared...and there is NOTHING yo can do to change that...kind sad if you ask me

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:31 PM

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:32 PM

And hundreds of others like her just die, it's nothing special.
she also "just died"...but shewas able to come back and explain what she saw...

she was also able to tell her mother and grandmother everything they said when they were in the hospital cafeteria...which was in a completely different room than her dead body...

it IS an amazing story dude...sorry

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:32 PM

lol. Do you see how that doesn't make sense? Are you capable of logic? I know you're a teen but c'mon. If God is truly "all-powerful", all-knowing, and the most caring entity in existence, then WHY DOES HE ALLOW HIS OWN FOLLOWERS TO SUFFER?

There is no way you can rationalize that.
I did by using the Bible. Why would we apply our stupid human logic to a perfect being? We have to look to the Bible which tells us, that God gave Adam and Eve an order, they disobeyed, and brought sin into this world. That's a possible explanation isn't it?
Why does God allow humanity to suffer? Because He gave us a choice and we choose to suffer.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:33 PM

I almost wished she died so it didn't feed morons like yourself.
wtf?

why do people that believe in an after life upset you?

ashar008

08-20-2009, 06:36 PM

You cannot deny the supernatural.

KoolKat

08-20-2009, 06:38 PM

You cannot deny the supernatural.

Sup Kobe.

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:41 PM

LOL. You rationalized something irrational by using an irrational book.

Sorry, I can't respond anytime soon, I have to spend several days inside of a big fish. No wi-fi.
You're a complete retard. Where do we get the idea that God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent? The Bible.

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:42 PM

typical athiest...doesn't want to listen or even try to listen...they are set in their belief that this universe just all magically appeared...and there is NOTHING yo can do to change that...kind sad if you ask me

funny, same thing can be said about religious people. I choose not to listen or even try too (in your words) because science and logic has provided my all the evidence i need to believe that everything religion has perpetuated is mental poison that's ready made for people who cannot think for themselves.

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:44 PM

wtf?

why do people that believe in an after life upset you?

I couldn't give two ****s about what people believe in, but when people like yourself use nonsensical bull**** to support their beliefs and shove it down people's throat, then i usually have something to say.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:45 PM

funny, same thing can be said about religious people. I choose not to listen or even try too (in your words) because science and logic has provided my all the evidence i need to believe that everything religion has perpetuated is mental poison that's ready made for people who cannot think for themselves.
I am not religious...

neither is the female that died in that video...

if you would have tried to listen or even paid attention at all you would know that...are you even reading this part of my post right now, lol? Or are you just reading the first line and deciding to reply with "science proves there is nothing but us blah blah blah..."?

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:45 PM

ashar008

08-20-2009, 06:46 PM

Sup Kobe.

How's it going young man?

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:46 PM

So eyewitness testimony in a court of law is bull**** too?

Almost always is.

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:47 PM

LOL...you still aren't getting it, kid. You're just further solidifying my point.

Why would a God, with UNLIMITED power, allow his own innocent followers to get brutally raped?
Innocent? You think we're innocent?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

hippos

08-20-2009, 06:47 PM

KoolKat

08-20-2009, 06:48 PM

How's it going young man?

How is Cantstop doing ? Holla at that boy Alpha Wolf for me :cheers:

ashar008

08-20-2009, 06:49 PM

How is Cantstop doing ? Holla at that boy Alpha Wolf for me :cheers:

He definitely is a freak in bed but nothing I can't handle.

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:49 PM

I am not religious...

neither is the female that died in that video...

if you would have tried to listen or even paid attention at all you would know that...are you even reading this part of my post right now, lol? Or are you just reading the first line and deciding to reply with "science proves there is nothing but us blah blah blah..."?

Please just shut the **** up

I guess you are assuming I am Christian or something...

you are very wrong...

I do have faith though, and I also do not know at the same time...

Ok, you're not religious but you do have faith. You are using the testimonials of ND'ers to support you ridiculous faith to whatever, right?

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:50 PM

I couldn't give two ****s about what people believe in, but when people like yourself use nonsensical bull**** to support their beliefs and shove it down people's throat, then i usually have something to say.
why do you just assume her story is "nonsensical bullsh*t"?

It is impossible to shove anything down someone's throat in a thread like this dude...unless you are somehow being forced to read it...

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:52 PM

Using a lot of emoticons does not make your point more effective, and only serves to further illustrate your immaturity.

Yes, individual people can be 100% innocent up until their deaths.
Oh really? How? What constitutes 100% innocence?
Don't use Biblical laws as a gauge now.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:52 PM

Please just shut the **** up
no

Ok, you're not religious but you do have faith. You are using the testimonials of ND'ers to support you ridiculous faith to whatever, right?
I am using them to support my spiritual beliefs...nothing religious

wait, why are you asking me questions?...

you are telling me to shut up and asking me questions at the same time...

if this thread upsets you then maybe you should leave it be...

miller-time

08-20-2009, 06:53 PM

So eyewitness testimony in a court of law is bull**** too?

without other evidence maybe.

did the victim and the witness know each other and make the whole thing up? is the witness being payed or being compromised? is the witness reliable? do two seperate witnesses have two different accounts of the event?

regardless of primetimes beloved testimonies, they do nothing more than open up dialogue. they don't prove anything.

Showtime

08-20-2009, 06:53 PM

Oh really? How? What constitutes 100% innocence?
Are you implying people DESERVE rape because they are sinners? 1. People are born imperfect and sinful. 2. Rape isn't God's punishment. Death is.

ashar008

08-20-2009, 06:54 PM

I think what he meant to say is no one can be 100 percent innocent not that anyone deserves rape or anything.

shlver

08-20-2009, 06:56 PM

Are you implying people DESERVE rape because they are sinners? 1. People are born imperfect and sinful. 2. Rape isn't God's punishment. Death is.
No. People choose to rape people.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 06:57 PM

without other evidence maybe.

did the victim and the witness know each other and make the whole thing up? is the witness being payed or being compromised? is the witness reliable? do two seperate witnesses have two different accounts of the event?

regardless of primetimes beloved testimonies, they do nothing more than open up dialogue. they don't prove anything.
in court the amount of eye witness testimony and the similiarties that are overwhemling mixed with the numerous doctors that say it is a medical miracle and unexpalinable, the judge would be forced to rule that there is in fact something else after life here...

youare correct though, it will never be proof...I stated that earlier...it is howver legir evidence...

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 06:57 PM

Using a lot of emoticons does not make your point more effective, and only serves to further illustrate your immaturity.

Yes, individual people can be 100% innocent up until their deaths.
No we are not. We have all cheated,stolen something, lied,etc.

Ahab

08-20-2009, 06:58 PM

no

I am using them to support my spiritual beliefs...nothing religious

wait, why are you asking me questions?...

you are telling me to shut up and asking me questions at the same time...

if this thread upsets you then maybe you should leave it be...

I'm not upset at all, i won't ever miss a chance to belittle someone's non-religious-spiritual-beliefs(?)that are based off shallow evidence of nothing.

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:00 PM

I'm not upset at all, i won't ever miss a chance to belittle someone's non-religious-spiritual-beliefs(?)that are based off shallow evidence of nothing.
Do you need a hug? http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Hug-Emoticons-advice-788245_100_100.jpg

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:01 PM

Innocent as in not defying your hallowed Ten Commandments(which are no longer relevant to our time). Or the fact that you guys are always saying "What Would Jesus Do?" He wouldn't watch porn. Nor we he drive a car, so get rid of that bumper sticker.

People who have lived their lives to the highest, and most respectable laws of Christianity have been raped and murdered. What?
Why wouldnt Jesus drive a car? That doesnt make any sense. Also, no matter how people have lived their lives, they still have broken a commandment. Its impossible not to.

hippos

08-20-2009, 07:01 PM

I don't get what ShannonElements is basing his "not relevant" claims off of. lol

shlver

08-20-2009, 07:01 PM

Innocent as in not defying your hallowed Ten Commandments(which are no longer relevant to our time). Or the fact that you guys are always saying "What Would Jesus Do?" He wouldn't watch porn. Nor we he drive a car, so get rid of that bumper sticker.

People who have lived their lives to the highest, and most respectable laws of Christianity have been raped and murdered. What?
Answer the question. What constitutes 100% innocence?

shlver

08-20-2009, 07:02 PM

Why wouldnt Jesus drive a car? That doesnt make any sense.
:roll: :roll: That cracked me up for some reason.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:02 PM

I'm not upset at all, i won't ever miss a chance to belittle someone's non-religious-spiritual-beliefs(?)that are based off shallow evidence of nothing.
I have no religion...I am not a part of any religious group...

I am spiritual though and do believe in an afterlife...

me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

if you don't know the difference between religious and spirtual then you really shouldn't attempt to "belittle" anyone in here...:lol

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:04 PM

what different NDEers have said about religion:

*ALL OF THESE PEOPLE FLAT LINED IN A HOSPITAL*

Doctrine and creed and race mean nothing. No matter what we believe we were all children joined under one God. The only rule is God's true law: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (May Eulitt)

God does not care which religion is best. God does not care what religion people practice. They are all a blooming facet of the whole. All religions refer to the same God. (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)

One man who had a near-death experience realized that the "God" of his religious background wasn't anything like the reality. He learned that it doesn't matter if people call him God, Allah, Great Spirit or whatever, he is one and the same. (Dr. Liz Dale)

Everyone, religious or not, believing in God or not, transitions to the spirit world as part of the natural process of life. Just as one does not need to be religious to live in the physical world, one does not need to profess a particular faith to live in the spirit world. (Nora Spurgin)

Heaven is about deeds, not creeds. Therefore, persons of many cultures and religions form the societies of heaven. (Emanuel Swedenborg)

Religious beliefs have little to do with what we experience in the transition from one realm to another, except that we are allowed to see briefly the teacher or guru that we followed. Regardless of cultural or religious beliefs, we have the same basic experience at death. (Betty Bethards)

God is not dependent on our belief, for our belief or disbelief in God does not affect God - only us. (Dr. PMH Atwater)

God cares little about our religious affiliation or church membership. Love is not limited to any one religion or even religion at all. Religions are cultural institutions but love is universal. (Kevin Williams)

Kenneth was born and raised a Southern Baptist. As a child, he first made his commitment to Christ and was baptized with water. He was a member of the church all his life. He was saved, on the path toward heaven, a believer, a follower of Jesus, and he knew this assured him a place in heaven. Nevertheless, he had a NDE and it sent him straight to hell. (Rev. Kenneth Hagin)

God is not a member of any church or religion. It is the churches and the religions that are members within the vastness and the glory that is God. There is no one religion just as there is no chosen people or person, nor any single way of regarding what cannot be fully comprehended. We are all sons of God in the sense that we are all souls of God's creation, without gender, without form, without nationality, complete and whole and perfect as we explore the never-endingness of God's wonderment. (Dr. PMH Atwater)

Having faith in Christ doesn't matter as much as having the faith of Christ. It is foolish to think that Jesus will carry your cross for you because he taught people that they must take up their own cross. Having the faith of Christ means to practice unconditional love. (Kevin Williams)

There is a lot of solid evidence in the Bible itself that the Bible has serious and devastating errors in it. (Kevin Williams)[

Ahab

08-20-2009, 07:04 PM

Do you need a hug? http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Hug-Emoticons-advice-788245_100_100.jpg

Nope, just a handgun and some ammo. :D

shlver

08-20-2009, 07:04 PM

The ten commandments are not relevant?:eek:
I'm pretty sure these are.
FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:05 PM

Nope, just a handgun and one bullet in the chamber. :D
Fixed.

shlver

08-20-2009, 07:07 PM

Ahab

08-20-2009, 07:08 PM

Fixed.

Forgot to add a nearby Church, my bad.

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:09 PM

Prove it. I know people who have never cheated, or stolen a damn thing. Normal people. Some of whom aren't even religious.

Maybe they were liars. But I'm sure some people who have NEVER committed even the slightest transgression against God have been murdered. It's just numbers.
And they just lied to your face, which is breaking a commandment. See how easy that was to figure out? I am suprised that you believe them. I am not sure about that. Everytime God has killed people, hasnt he given them a warning? He did with Noah and the Arc. The people he killed who were worshiping false idols committed a transgression against God. I am trying to think of a time where God didnt give out a warning and people were killed without reason.

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:10 PM

I already said it. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

It isn't complicated. People who have followed that to a T have still been raped and murdered.
I dont know what T you are talking about. Everyone has broken a commandment. Everyone.

Mikaiel

08-20-2009, 07:12 PM

I am trying to think of a time where God didnt give out a warning and people were killed without reason.

Babies ? :confusedshrug:

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:14 PM

Babies ? :confusedshrug:
:roll: What? If Babies didnt commit a sin, and were killed, wouldnt they be in heaven? That would just be a homecoming because they didnt do anything wrong and wouldnt be going to hell.

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:16 PM

Which command isnt relevant?

hippos

08-20-2009, 07:18 PM

Which command isnt relevant?

The one about adultery. It's so in these day, mang. Just watch Desperate Housewives. The Bible is just trying to take our fun away!

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 07:18 PM

it is 8 minutes long...

you replied in 3 minutes...:ohwell:

typical athiest...doesn't want to listen or even try to listen...they are set in their belief that this universe just all magically appeared...and there is NOTHING yo can do to change that...kind sad if you ask me

Are you fu*king serious. Most atheists and scientists have deduced that the Universe was formed (and is perpetually expanding) from a series of cosmic reactions that took place over billions of years.

According to the bible, some wizard in the sky magically created the earth 6,000 years ago.

Which one seems more believable to you?

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:20 PM

Are you fu*king serious. Most atheists and scientists have deduced that the Universe was formed (and is perpetually expanding) from a series of cosmic reactions that took place over billions of years.

According to the bible, some wizard in the sky magically created the earth 6,000 years ago.

Which one seems more believable to you?
:roll: Wow. We will all see at the end who is right. You can believe whatever you want, but remember this, you will figure whether you were wrong or right.

hippos

08-20-2009, 07:24 PM

Are you fu*king serious. Most atheists and scientists have deduced that the Universe was formed (and is perpetually expanding) from a series of cosmic reactions that took place over billions of years.

According to the bible, some wizard in the sky magically created the earth 6,000 years ago.

Which one seems more believable to you?

Can you point out where in the Bible it says the earth was created 6,000 years ago. Give me any date for that matter.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:24 PM

Are you fu*king serious. Most atheists and scientists have deduced that the Universe was formed (and is perpetually expanding) from a series of cosmic reactions that took place over billions of years.

According to the bible, some wizard in the sky magically created the earth 6,000 years ago.

Which one seems more believable to you?
I don't believe in the Bible...

but how do scientists explain that whatever was needed for these "cosmic reactions" appeared?...

It is unexplainable...there should be NOTHING...that would make sense

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:27 PM

Not really. You're just gonna die and that's it.
You dont know that for a fact though.

Mikaiel

08-20-2009, 07:28 PM

Again the "We don't know that, so it has to be God" ...

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:29 PM

I don't believe in the Bible...

but how do scientists explain that whatever was needed for these "cosmic reactions" appeared?...

It is unexplainable...there should be NOTHING...that would make sense
Science cant explain everything. Shoot, they dont even know everything about the earth yet, doesnt that tell you something?

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:29 PM

Not really. You're just gonna die and that's it.
blindly believing that there is nothing is just as ignorant as any religion...

there is absolutly no reason at all to assumet that this is all...

there is on the other hand, plenty of evidence that shows maybe there is something more than this short life...

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:33 PM

Yes, of course there are still unanswered questions. That doesn't mean, however, that you should just give various imaginary beings credit. Regardless of how smart we are, there still might be a lot of things we can't fully comprehend.
why is it that you can't take your own advice and accept that maybe there is more than just this then?

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 07:33 PM

Can you point out where in the Bible it says the earth was created 6,000 years ago. Give me any date for that matter.

I'm not the one saying it, but ask one of the Evangelicals and they'll tell all about how the Earth was created 6,000 years ago and man and dinosaur coexisted :oldlol:

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 07:35 PM

:roll: Wow. We will all see at the end who is right. You can believe whatever you want, but remember this, you will figure whether you were wrong or right.

here's a science experiment for you- next time you see a bug, step on it, kill it. That's what happens when you die, unless of course you believe every living thing ascends to heaven or hell depending on how pious a life they lead. I'll pray for the souls of all the cockaroaches I kill :roll:

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:37 PM

No there isn't. By that same logic vivid dreams are examples of other worlds.
how do you know that?

you are 100% that this is it?

where the f*ck is your proof...???

or how about just some evidence that you are right?

you might be able to make the Bible look dumb, that is easy, but you are claiming to know something that the majority of scientists here would never claim to knowing...

Mikaiel

08-20-2009, 07:39 PM

Primetime, what do you think about DMT ? You basically have the same effects than with a NDE ...

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:41 PM

here's a science experiment for you- next time you see a bug, step on it, kill it. That's what happens when you die, unless of course you believe every living thing ascends to heaven or hell depending on how pious a life they lead. I'll pray for the souls of all the cockaroaches I kill :roll:
animal spirits go to the astral plane, where they continue to be reincarnated over and over...

they are not capable of making choices or knowing right from wrong...

"choice" is what seperates humans from other life here...

http://www.hackthematrix.org/matrix/pics/m1/oracle/oracle7.jpg

"I didn't come here for insects honey"

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 07:42 PM

how do you know that?

you are 100% that this is it?

where the f*ck is your proof...???

or how about just some evidence that you are right?

you might be able to make the Bible look dumb, that is easy, but you are claiming to know something that the majority of scientists here would never claim to knowing...

There's plenty of 'evidence' of alien abductions, a lot more so than NDE, just search the internet, videos, etc. Scientists can't explain this now can they? How can an experience that so many people have had not be proof of life outside of this planet? Does God send this critters to anally probe humans as part of his incomprehensible holy plan?

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:43 PM

Primetime, what do you think about DMT ? You basically have the same effects than with a NDE ...
is that the drug that supposedly gives you the ability to have an out of body experience?

some people can do that through meditation...but they are restricted to the astral plane...they can't enter "the light"...you have to die for that

I believe it...

I would also be scared as hell to try that drug...f*ck that

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 07:43 PM

animal spirits go to the astral plane, where they continue to be reincarnated over and over...

they are not capable of making choices or knowing right from wrong...

"choice" is what seperates humans from other life here...

http://www.hackthematrix.org/matrix/pics/m1/oracle/oracle7.jpg

"I didn't come here for insects honey"

You're absolutely full of sh*t.

You get on people because science still has unanswered questions about the origins of the universe but you KNOW that animal spirits go to the astral plane and are reincarnated? :wtf:

Where are you getting this from?

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:44 PM

I accept that there might be a higher power. No problem. But people who default to a particular religion, created by...thousands of years ago who believed in dragons...

agreed...

however I wouldn't ever say that when you die that is it...

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 07:46 PM

You're absolutely full of sh*t.

You get on people because science still has unanswered questions about the origins of the universe but you KNOW that animal spirits go to the astral plane and are reincarnated? :wtf:

Where are you getting this from?
NDE stories...

http://www.near-death.com/

none of it is proof obvioulsy, and there isn't much about animals, but some of them touched on that...

I have posted it for you before, I doubt you will look through it...but you shoud give it a chance...

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 07:54 PM

NDE stories...

http://www.near-death.com/

none of it is proof obvioulsy, and there isn't much about animals, but some of them touched on that...

I have posted it for you before, I doubt you will look through it...but you shoud give it a chance...

Alien abduction story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzX34k977Ak

none of it is proof obviously...

But all joking aside, my mom worked as a Nurse for close to 30 years and she's personally seen people wake up from NDE, and I've heard more stories than I can relate in one sitting. But I think it's similar to sleep paralysis, it's a deep-seated psychological reaction to trauma and people begin to have hallucinations, visions, w/e you want to call it. None of those people were dead and revived, they were clinically dead, which is a huge difference- their vital signs and other functions had stopped, but that doesn't mean they died. Many people who underwent surgery and had their hearts stopped temporarily have reported the same things that NDEers have.

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 07:58 PM

And you don't know anything you're saying for fact either. Look up the "teapot theory."

You are defaulting to an idea that is in no way provable, that has been passed down to you from a time when people still thought the Earth was flat.

I will be the first to admit that I don't know. But I'm certainly not about to put all my eggs in one basket.
:roll: :roll: :roll: Look at my posts and try to find the sentence where I said that my posts are facts and yours are fiction. Impossible, I know.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 09:01 PM

Alien abduction story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzX34k977Ak

none of it is proof obviously...

But all joking aside, my mom worked as a Nurse for close to 30 years and she's personally seen people wake up from NDE, and I've heard more stories than I can relate in one sitting. But I think it's similar to sleep paralysis, it's a deep-seated psychological reaction to trauma and people begin to have hallucinations, visions, w/e you want to call it. None of those people were dead and revived, they were clinically dead, which is a huge difference- their vital signs and other functions had stopped, but that doesn't mean they died. Many people who underwent surgery and had their hearts stopped temporarily have reported the same things that NDEers have.
1. anyone can claim to be abducted by aliens...ANYONE...but in order to have claimed to have an NDE you have to have flat lined in a hospital and died first...big difference

2. sleep paralysis and hallucinations do not explain being able to exit your own body, witness what other are doing and saying, and then come back and be able to tell doctors and nurses what they said IN OTHER ROOMS...

it also doesn't explain how people who are born blind are suddenly capable of seeing for the first time...did they just happen to hallucinate what a damn human looks like for the first time?

there is a TON of things in an NDE that can not be explained by brain chemicals dude...the woman in that video saw what her kids look like BEFORE SHE HAD THEM!...and how come all of their experiences are the same regardless of religion?

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 09:05 PM

That isn't proof of anything. It's just brain activity.

So because yesterday I was bossed around by a 10-foot parrot with the voice of James Earl Jones I should consider alternate dimensions?
what if you left your body and were able to float around where ever you wanted...and you went to your parents home and witnessed exactly what they were doing and saying, and then when you got back you confirmed what they did by them?...

would you still say that is "just brain activity"?

phoenix18

08-20-2009, 09:07 PM

And neither do you. So why default to it? Brainwashed? Taught it from childhood?
Again, I never said that I believed in it. I was just recalling what I knew about the bible.

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 09:40 PM

1. anyone can claim to be abducted by aliens...ANYONE...but in order to have claimed to have an NDE you have to have flat lined in a hospital and died first...big difference

Like I said, they never died... they were clinically dead, no different than what happens when a person undergoes a heart transplant. And really, anyone can make stuff up about what happened to them during this state, especially those, like alien abduction claimants, who use it to get their 15 minuites of fame.

2. sleep paralysis and hallucinations do not explain being able to exit your own body, witness what other are doing and saying, and then come back and be able to tell doctors and nurses what they said IN OTHER ROOMS...

We don't know the depths of the human subconscious or the limits of our mental capacities. It's generally accepted that we use only a small percentage of our brain (estimates usually at 7% or so), I'm guessing body trauma so dramatic can trigger psychological reactions that we don't have a name for yet. Many of the people who claim to have seen ghosts or aliens suffered sleep paralysis which is also a relatively new discovery in human psychology.

it also doesn't explain how people who are born blind are suddenly capable of seeing for the first time...did they just happen to hallucinate what a damn human looks like for the first time?

:wtf:

there is a TON of things in an NDE that can not be explained by brain chemicals dude...the woman in that video saw what her kids look like BEFORE SHE HAD THEM!...and how come all of their experiences are the same regardless of religion?

I read a story recently about a woman who had a dream about her unborn child (before she even knew she was pregnant) and she drew pictures and described what her child would look like at a certain age and she was dead on. There are many documented cases of people exhibiting psychic abilities and being able to fortell future events. Hell, even I have dreams from time to time of events that eventually come true. It's all embedded within our psyches, it's not something we control consciously.

And with regards to your last question- people have certain psychological experiences that are similar to others... it's the same reason that many people have dreams about falling or being naked while taking a test. It's an idea known as the collective unconscious. Basically our subconscious selves have many symbolic methods and representations that are universal to all human beings regardless of our experiences, religion, race, etc.

I think you should spend less time reading about people's psychological episodes while clinically dead (which is actually part of psych) and study more psychology, a lot of your questions would be answered that way.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 09:46 PM

dude it is VERY obvious that all of these people are experiencing something VERY real...not some strange dream...

DOCTORS ARE IN AWE OF IT, THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN IT...yet for some reason, you claim to know more than a doctor...

our eye balls are used to see...that is known...oiur brain can not see without them...you can't explain that with a dream dude...sorry...

we might not know sh*t about the human brain, but we do know it can't travel to f*cking China without the body it is attached to...

you are just assuming that this is easily explained without doing ANY research on it...I find it very hard to believe your mother has witnessed many stories...care to drop any names to prove it???

supersmashbros

08-20-2009, 09:53 PM

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:00 PM

You can only believe in God, but nothing can be done to verify God. That means God is only faith and not a fact because a fact can be verified and has evidence. There is ZERO evidence of God and the only thing God has is faith and faith isn't evidence.
there is plenty of "evidence" dude...have you read the past couple pages, or did you just decide to jump in and pretend taht no evidence of an afterlife exists?

evidence = YES
proof = NO

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 10:01 PM

A near-death experience (NDE), refers to a broad range of personal experiences associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body; feelings of levitation; extreme fear; total serenity, security, or warmth; the experience of absolute dissolution; and the presence of a light, which some people interpret as a deity.[1] Some see NDEs as a paranormal and spiritual glimpse into the afterlife[citation needed].

These phenomena are usually reported after an individual has been pronounced clinically dead, or otherwise very close to death, hence the entitlement near-death experience. Many NDE reports, however, originate from events that are not life threatening. With recent developments in cardiac resuscitation techniques, the number of NDEs reported has increased. Many in the scientific community regard such experiences as hallucinatory,[2][3][4] while paranormal specialists and a few mainstream scientists claim them to be evidence of an afterlife

In a hospital in Switzerland in 1944, the world-renowned psychiatrist Carl G. Jung, had a heart attack and then a near-death experience. His vivid encounter with the light, plus the intensely meaningful insights led Jung to conclude that his experience came from something real and eternal. Jung's experience is unique in that he saw the Earth from a vantage point of about a thousand miles above it. His incredibly accurate view of the Earth from outer space was described about two decades before astronauts in space first described it. Subsequently, as he reflected on life after death, Jung recalled the meditating Hindu from his near-death experience and read it as a parable of the archetypal Higher Self, the God-image within. Carl Jung, who founded analytical psychology, centered on the archetypes of the collective unconscious.

In the 1990s, Dr. Rick Strassman conducted research on the psychedelic drug Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) at the University of New Mexico. Strassman advanced the theory that a massive release of DMT from the pineal gland prior to death or near-death was the cause of the near-death experience phenomenon. Only two of his test subjects reported NDE-like aural or visual hallucinations, although many reported feeling as though they had entered a state similar to the classical NDE. His explanation for this was the possible lack of panic involved in the clinical setting and possible dosage differences between those administered and those encountered in actual NDE cases. All subjects in the study were also very experienced users of DMT and/or other psychedelic/entheogenic agents. Some speculators consider that if subjects without prior knowledge on the effects of DMT had been used during the experiment, it is possible more volunteers would have reported feeling as though they had experienced an NDE.

Dr. Karl Jansen, a New Zealand-born psychiatrist, claims to have reproduced the effects of NDEs through the use of ketamine, thus giving potential evidence of a biological cause of the experience.

According to Engmann[55], near-death experiences of people who are clinically dead are psychopathological symptoms caused by a severe malfunction of the brain resulting from the cessation of cerebral blood circulation. An important question is whether it is possible to “translate” the bloomy experiences of the reanimated survivors into psychopathologically basic phenomena, e.g. acoasms, central narrowing of the visual field, autoscopia, visual hallucinations, activation of limbic and memory structures according to Moody’s stages. The symptoms suppose a primary affliction of the occipital and temporal cortices under clinical death. This basis could be congruent with the thesis of pathoclisis – the inclination of special parts of the brain to be the first to be damaged in case of disease, lack of oxygen, or malnutrition – established eighty years ago by C. and O. Vogt.[56] According to that thesis, the basic phenomena should be similar in all patients with near- death experiences. But a crucial problem is to distinguish these basic psychopathological symptoms from the secondary mental associated experiences which may result from a reprocessing of the basic symptoms under the influence of the person’s cultural and religious views.

Some research has suggested that unconscious patients can overhear conversations even if the hospital machines aren't registering any brain activity. Research conducted at Sheffield University led to a finding that the release of adrenaline caused by tissue damage during surgery may cause this.[57] Recent findings have also shown that people diagnosed in a "persistent vegetative state" can communicate through their thoughts, as detected by an fMRI

Much more where this came from, but like I said before- it's a new study but psychologists and biologists have begun to study the phenomenon analytically as it pertains to their particular field. DMT and other hallucinogens have been found to produce the same psychological and biological effects as an NDE.

Maybe if you studied more and watched less youtube videos you'd know all of this...

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:22 PM

Much more where this came from, but like I said before- it's a new study but psychologists and biologists have begun to study the phenomenon analytically as it pertains to their particular field. DMT and other hallucinogens have been found to produce the same psychological and biological effects as an NDE.

Maybe if you studied more and watched less youtube videos you'd know all of this...
the site that I STUDY has a "debunk section" with all that stuff...I don't watch alot of YouTube...maybe if you actually read my posts and clicked my links you would know that...

he it is for A FOURTH TIME:

http://www.near-death.com/

no one has reproduced one, a flat line is needed...and even if they could reproduce an NDE in a lab wouldn't that just mean they are real?

I don't see how that means anything at all really...

here is the basic explantion found in wiki:

The traits of a classical NDE are as follows:

-The notice of a very unpleasant sound or noise.[19]
-A sense/awareness of being dead.[17][20]
-A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A feeling of being removed from the world.[17][21][22]
-An out-of-body experience. A perception of one

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:30 PM

http://www.kheper.net/topics/astral/Astral-Etheric-Connect.gif

^^^you can travel along the astral plane without dieing...

do some research on "remote viewing"...it isn't brain chemicals...people can comunicate through it...or even travel from place to place miles and miles away...

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 10:34 PM

look dude, you have obvioulsy comletely made up your mind on this one and can't be budged...I guess all I can say is that I am a sad that you feel that way...it has to be somewhat depressing "knowing" that this short life is all you have to work with...

how is it depressing knowing that I can live life to the fullest now and not worrying about pleasing imaginary characters? Like before you were born and your individual consciousness did not exist, the same will happen when you die. You're not going to float into the clouds and play harps with winged angels for all eternity, now that would be depressing- living forever aimlessly and the only purpose to your being is making an insecure Harry Potteresque wizard happy. Or the flipside, being sent to the center of the earth to burn forever... btw how does one feel physical pain if you're body (nervous system and all) is in a casket or has relegated to nothing but ashes? :confusedshrug:

There's plenty of evidence, whether you chose to accept it or not, that NDE is merely a psychological and biological phenomenon. But if it helps you sleep easier at night to think that this occurrence means you'll get to meet the wizard in the sky someday and gawk at him for eternity, so be it.

shlver

08-20-2009, 10:35 PM

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 10:37 PM

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 10:40 PM

Do you know for sure there is no wizard in the sky?

I was until someone showed me this snapshot they took from an airplane. Plain as day, the almighty :bowdown:

http://danielfuentes.iespana.es/danielfuentes/images/mitologia/zeus.jpg

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:43 PM

how is it depressing knowing that I can live life to the fullest now and not worrying about pleasing imaginary characters? Like before you were born and your individual consciousness did not exist, the same will happen when you die. You're not going to float into the clouds and play harps with winged angels for all eternity, now that would be depressing- living forever aimlessly and the only purpose to your being is making an insecure Harry Potteresque wizard happy. Or the flipside, being sent to the center of the earth to burn forever... btw how does one feel physical pain if you're body (nervous system and all) is in a casket or has relegated to nothing but ashes? :confusedshrug:

There's plenty of evidence, whether you chose to accept it or not, that NDE is merely a psychological and biological phenomenon. But if it helps you sleep easier at night to think that this occurrence means you'll get to meet the wizard in the sky someday and gawk at him for eternity, so be it.
1. because not existing is depressing, and if you don't agree then you just don't enjoy life...

2. I don't live life trying to make a false God happy, NDEers do not belive God to be a single entity, "God" is everyone and everything...

3. Burning forever is Christian belief...(only some Christians btw)...I am not Christian...

4. again, NDEers do not believe God to be a single entity...

here is what one NDEer says about searching for God:

"After death, if you insist upon searching for an old man on a throne as God, you will do this for awhile until you get the idea that you are following an illusion."

God is not a single being or entity...Christian priests have come back from NDEs and quit their teachings...

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:44 PM

Yeah, I'd rather travel to Nebulon-5 with Lord Xenu :oldlol:

Are you serious?

ok, well if you have never heard of the astral plane then yo uhave reading to do...yes I am serious

and the pic in your last post doesn't show up...

shlver

08-20-2009, 10:44 PM

1. because not existing is depressing, and if you don't agree then you just don't enjoy life...

2. I don't live life trying to make a false God happy, NDEers do not belive God to be a single entity, "God" is everyone and everything...

3. Burning forever is Christian belief...(only some Christians btw)...I am not Christian...

4. again, NDEers do not believe God to be a single entity...

here is what one NDEer says about searching for God:

"After death, if you insist upon searching for an old man on a throne as God, you will do this for awhile until you get the idea that you are following an illusion."

God is not a single being or entity...Christian priests have come back from NDEs and quit their teachings...
Don't make absolute statements please.:no:

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:49 PM

here you go:

http://www.banyanretreat.com/img/7SubtleBodies.gif

right now we are in the physical plane...the science that exists here is different then the science you wold find elsewhere...(time/gravity/atoms/ect)

there is an astral plane that people on earth can travel to...and then there is the spiritual plane wher eyou go when you die...

everything has a spirit, including plants even...(yes, I know that sounds crazy but they all say it)...and you will continue to reincarnate...

there is also the theory that we are all the same spirit, and with an eternity we live out every single life that has ever lived here...that is why they say "do onto others as you would yourself", because you are actually doing it to yourself...

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 10:51 PM

Don't make absolute statements please.:no:
ok, I am trying to talk through the vioce of NDEers...

in no way whatsoever do I have any problems with Christians or the way the believe...I am trying to talk as if I were one of them because it just makes it easier then constantly saying "according to them...blah blah blah"...

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 10:54 PM

1. because not existing is depressing, and if you don't agree then you just don't enjoy life...

How can you feel depressed, or anything if you no longer exist?

It's only natural, humans are a part of nature, we are governed by the same rules. Everything is cyclic- the sun rises and sets, the earth rotates, and in a year we'll be in the same position (more or less) as we are now orbitally. If this is evidence of anything it's the cyclical nature of the universe. This is why reincarnation is the only theory that I haven't completely dismissed.

Man has from the beginning tried to explain the unexplainable in ethereal terms. Where does the sun go at night? Well, the God Apollo pulls it on his chariot every day? What is thunder? Well, it's the God Zeus displaying his anger at us. Etc and so on. To this day this still goes on- what happens when we die? Well God brings our souls for judgment, yadda yadda yadda. Our society has more means now to explain the world around and beyond in a way that past civilizations were not priveleged to. Little by little this is making a lot of religious belief obsolete. I see this as a progression, an evolution of our minds but some would have us be perpetually stuck in the dark ages with useless superstition.

That's what it all boils down to- fear... people fear dying and no longer 'being', and I enjoy life-I have family, friends, a great girl, and a budding acting career. Just because I don't live my life cowering in fear and reading fairy tales doesn't mean my life is in any way lacking.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 11:00 PM

How can you feel depressed, or anything if you no longer exist?

It's only natural, humans are a part of nature, we are governed by the same rules. Everything is cyclic- the sun rises and sets, the earth rotates, and in a year we'll be in the same position (more or less) as we are now orbitally. If this is evidence of anything it's the cyclical nature of the universe. This is why reincarnation is the only theory that I haven't completely dismissed.

Man has from the beginning tried to explain the unexplainable in ethereal terms. Where does the sun go at night? Well, the God Apollo pulls it on his chariot every day? What is thunder? Well, it's the God Zeus displaying his anger at us. Etc and so on. To this day this still goes on- what happens when we die? Well God brings our souls for judgment, yadda yadda yadda. Our society has more means now to explain the world around and beyond in a way that past civilizations were not priveleged to. Little by little this is making a lot of religious belief obsolete. I see this as a progression, an evolution of our minds but some would have us be perpetually stuck in the dark ages with useless superstition.

That's what it all boils down to- fear... people fear dying and no longer 'being', and I enjoy life-I have family, friends, a great girl, and a budding acting career. Just because I don't live my life cowering in fear and reading fairy tales doesn't mean my life is in any way lacking.
it is depressing while you live, obviously not when you are dead (if you really just completely cease to exist that is)

NDEers belief that every spirit here did choose to come here, you DID exist before you were born...you have always existed because time only exists in the physical world..."time" is no obstical in the spiritual plane, you can jump back and forth billions of years in the blink of an eye...you can even reincarnate to someone from the past...

your middle part deals with religion, I agree with what you say there, people do invent religions for different reasons such as fear or explaining, however I am in no way religious...so you can stop talking about wizards when dealing with me...

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 11:04 PM

Yeah, well... your beliefs are a little too far out for me, I feel like I should be doing shrooms while reading about the astral plane and spirit guides. But if it helps you sleep at night :cheers:

Doomsday Dallas

08-20-2009, 11:08 PM

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 11:10 PM

Yeah, well... your beliefs are a little too far out for me, I feel like I should be doing shrooms while reading about the astral plane and spirit guides. But if it helps you sleep at night :cheers:

it really isn't far out at all...

no offense to the Bible or Christians but the Bible is 1,000x more "out there"...

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 11:11 PM

it really isn't far out at all...

no offense to the Bible or Christians but the Bible is 1,000x more "out there"...

Ah, now something we can finally agree on.

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 11:14 PM

Everyone of you has had this experience while you were sleeping...

You just don't know it yet.

http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/f/c/9/highres_5325001.jpeg

How did this thread get on the topic of the Astral Plane?

I must go back and read now.
I am sure that there are many people that have entered the astral plane in their sleep and don't know it but I doubt it "everyone"...

I am betting it is pretty rare actually...because when people go there through meditation they remember it...

if it was constantly happening to people in their sleep then you would hear more stories that start with "and suddenly I was looking down at myself sleeping...and I went and did blah blah blah..."

Doomsday Dallas

08-20-2009, 11:26 PM

I am sure that there are many people that have entered the astral plane in their sleep and don't know it but I doubt it "everyone"...

I am betting it is pretty rare actually...because when people go there through meditation they remember it...

if it was constantly happening to people in their sleep then you would hear more stories that start with "and suddenly I was looking down at myself sleeping...and I went and did blah blah blah..."

So let me ask you this -primetime-

Do you think there are certain top secret agencies that are funded by the government that study the Astral Plane?

I think it's obvious that this is what the Church of Scientology is studying...

I think back in the Egyptian & Myan times... There were many people that traveled across the astral plane, which is why they were able to map the stars to perfection.

Regardless the Astral Plane is a state of conciousness that deals in vibration frequencies. The higher the vibration frequency, the higher state of conciousness you can reach...

Many of the 2012 theorists don't predict the End of the World... But rather the evolution of man reaching a higher state of conciousness (or our world somehow has aligns in certain position in the galaxy which raises the vibration levels.)

Yea... i know... Crazy talk.

DonDadda59

08-20-2009, 11:28 PM

So let me ask you this -primetime-

Do you think there are certain top secret agencies that are funded by the government that study the Astral Plane?

I think it's obvious that this is what the Church of Scientology is studying...

I think back in the Egyptian & Myan times... There were many people that traveled across the astral plane, which is why they were able to map the stars to perfection.

Regardless the Astral Plane is a state of conciousness that deals in vibration frequencies. The higher the vibration frequency, the higher state of conciousness you can reach...

Many of the 2012 theorists don't predict the End of the World... But rather the evolution of man reaching a higher state of conciousness (or our world somehow has aligns in certain position in the galaxy which raises the vibration levels.)

Yea... i know... Crazy talk.

Amen

~primetime~

08-20-2009, 11:51 PM

So let me ask you this -primetime-

Do you think there are certain top secret agencies that are funded by the government that study the Astral Plane?

I think it's obvious that this is what the Church of Scientology is studying...
It is possible I guess, but it doesn't bother me really, nor do I care...in fact as far as the astral plane is concerned I would much rather remain unknowing...other people can study it all they want, I don't want to...I'll check all that out when I die...

I think back in the Egyptian & Myan times... There were many people that traveled across the astral plane, which is why they were able to map the stars to perfection.

Regardless the Astral Plane is a state of conciousness that deals in vibration frequencies. The higher the vibration frequency, the higher state of conciousness you can reach...

Many of the 2012 theorists don't predict the End of the World... But rather the evolution of man reaching a higher state of conciousness (or our world somehow has aligns in certain position in the galaxy which raises the vibration levels.)

Yea... i know... Crazy talk.
all 2012 talks are crazy talk to me right now...

if a nuke goes off around then maybe I will start to believe...but even then I will probably just say it was a coincedence...

if nothing happens on 2012 then people will just invent a new "Armegedon" date...it never ends...Y2K failed?...oh well you don't know about the Mayans do you?...Mayans fail?...well I think Nostrodomous said something about that kinda sounded a little like North Korea...and he said 23...must be war with North Korea in 2023...