MJ: "Kobe is easily the best"

[ManUtd]

http://clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=61191


Damn today MJ was in Berlin (Germany) to present his new shoes and he was asked what he believes about the future of the league and the development after his retirement.

He answered, "well the NBA is in great hands but if I had to pick the single greatest player on the planet, I take Kobe Bryant without hesitation".


Duh.

[HHH]

MJ knows what's up! GREATNESS recognizes GREATNESS.

Whatever happened to that "JordanStar" guy. I'm sure he'll love reading this. :rockon:

[picc84]

I like.

[ManUtd]

For those of you who are interested in the shoes

http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=72233051&cdi=0

One response I really liked


MJ sees alot of himself in Kobe. Wish he could come here and mentor him. MJ is likely the only person in the WORLD who can relate to Kobe Bryant, the person, the player, the leader.

[Boiled Snack]

never knew that MJ thinks highle of kobe duh

[IGGYIVERSON]

MJ has always praised Kobe....even going back to 98.

damn i'd love to see MJ train Kobe. i remember a game back in 98, where MJ was actually giving him shooting advice near the halfcourt area while someone was shooting freethrows. mentally and defensively i think MJ could enhance Kobe. guy is already terrifying.

it would never happen tho. people worry too much about comparisons and image.

[bigkingsfan]

I'm just shocked Jordan finally gave an honest answer... instead of the typical Jordan line "there's lots of good talent in the league...bla bla bla"

[hotsizzle]

MJ has always praised Kobe....even going back to 98.

damn i'd love to see MJ train Kobe. i remember a game back in 98, where MJ was actually giving him shooting advice near the halfcourt area while someone was shooting freethrows. mentally and defensively i think MJ could enhance Kobe. guy is already terrifying.

it would never happen tho. people worry too much about comparisons and image.

I remember seeing that in one of the tapes I watched. Kobe actually asked him how do something and MJ was tellin him. but yea, MJ has always had a good relationship with kobe, always praising him and vice versa

[IGGYIVERSON]

I'm just shocked Jordan finally gave an honest answer... instead of the typical Jordan line "there's lots of good talent in the league...bla bla bla"

he usually takes the political style answers but honestly there really hasnt been a single "without a doubt best player in the world" since MJ. its always been an argument. TD, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, etc, etc. it was never an argument thru-out the 90s. so i can't come down on any NBA legends for refusing to name one player.

Kobe's a damn good choice tho.

[picc84]

I'm just shocked Jordan finally gave an honest answer... instead of the typical Jordan line "there's lots of good talent in the league...bla bla bla"

I thought he only wouldnt do that while he was still in the league. He hasnt really had a problem answering questions like this since he's retired.

[bigkingsfan]

Nah, he's always been like this. Someone recently ask him about his favorites to win the championship, and he gave another MJ-like answer.

[IGGYIVERSON]

Nah, he's always been like this. Someone recently ask him about his favorites to win the championship, and he gave another MJ-like answer.

well its either be like that or be someone outspoken who has the ability to offend.

MJ's a business man first and foremost. he's going to stay neutral a lot of times.

[The Mamba]

Game recognize game ...

Player to Player ...

Pimp to Pimp ...

GREATNESS recognize GREATNESS ...

If only MJ got to spend more time telling Kobe the finer points of the game, and training him ... Kobe could've surpassed the master. Kobe always has looked up to him, and imitated him. I'm sure Jordan recognizes that, and respects it.

[hateraid]

Where are the haters? I'd love to see them flip this.

[04mzwach]

I wonder how players will see Kobe in the future. I wonder if they themselves will model their game after Kobe and look up to Kobe like Kobe does to MJ. I can already see that his whole team looks up to him as a legend pretty much. You can tell when he makes the game winners that they are in "awe" of Kobe at times.

[MaxFly]

Jordan also chose Kwame Brown as a number 1 draft pick... keep that in mind...

[final.wrath]

he usually takes the political style answers but honestly there really hasnt been a single "without a doubt best player in the world" since MJ. its always been an argument. TD, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, etc, etc. it was never an argument thru-out the 90s. so i can't come down on any NBA legends for refusing to name one player.

Kobe's a damn good choice tho.

the guy scored 81 fricken points. hes clutch as hell too. i dont think there's any question he's the best player in the league at the moment.

[reppy]

I'd just like clarification.. is this a legitimate source? As far as I can tell, it's just some guy that said he saw MJ or something, right?

[BradMiller52]

Jordan also chose Kwame Brown as a number 1 draft pick... keep that in mind...


:roll:

I don't know if Kobe's the best but he's definitely up there, probably is the best right now.

[Juvenile]

I saw this on a german news site as well, so I guess it's legitimate.

[final.wrath]

i think too much blame is laid on jordan for that pick. it's my impression that almost every team had him ranked #1...

[picc84]

Jordan also chose Kwame Brown as a number 1 draft pick... keep that in mind...

He picked Kwame on potential.

Saying that I dont think kobe's the best in the L (TD takes that title) but as a swingman Jordan would probably be biased towards swingmen himself. Between Kobe and Lebron id say its a tossup but either is a good choice.

[RidonKs]

Saying that I dont think kobe's the best in the L (TD takes that title) but as a swingman Jordan would probably be biased towards swingmen himself. Between Kobe and Lebron id say its a tossup but either is a good choice.

I agree with that completely. My list goes TD, then Kobe, then LeBron.

[The Mamba]

Jordan also chose Kwame Brown as a number 1 draft pick... keep that in mind...
Drafting off potential isn't the same as recognizing current talent, and skill level. Apples and oranges. Besides, alot of GM's have made messed up picks...

[final.wrath]

if kobe had the help TD has we'd be discussing the latest lakers championship. even garnett is better than duncan.

[MaxFly]

i think too much blame is laid on jordan for that pick. it's my impression that almost every team had him ranked #1...

Indeed. The general point is that though Jordan was an exceptional player, his analytical skills and judgement aren't beyond reproach.

I say this in order to guard against the perception that because Jordan says it, it must be true. That's generally where threads like these lead.

[geeWiz15]

two things.

1. MJ's analysis on the NBA as an outsider has been proven to be absolutely terrible.

2. MJ has a gigantic ego.

But if this is all Kobe fans need to feel good about themselves, hey, I'm all for that.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

I wonder how players will see Kobe in the future. I wonder if they themselves will model their game after Kobe and look up to Kobe like Kobe does to MJ. I can already see that his whole team looks up to him as a legend pretty much. You can tell when he makes the game winners that they are in "awe" of Kobe at times.

Only if he at least goes to the finals without Shaq.


1. MJ's analysis on the NBA as an outsider has been proven to be absolutely terrible.

Give us some examples. Just curious.


2. MJ has a gigantic ego.

What does that have to do with anything? If his ego was that big, he'd say he's still the single greatest player on the planet.

[MaxFly]

Give us some examples. Just curious.

Geewiz is a Wizards fan. Please don't encourage him.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

lol

[XxNeXuSxX]

Hey, uh can someone show me a real link to this story? One goes to a Lakers forum while the other one has no mention of this quote...



Edit: why the hell has no one else asked this yet?

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

:roll: Not only does this mindless groupie misquote Michael in the title, he refuses to put a real link to the story.

Kids!

[picc84]

Indeed. The general point is that though Jordan was an exceptional player, his analytical skills and judgement aren't beyond reproach.

I say this in order to guard against the perception that because Jordan says it, it must be true. That's generally where threads like these lead.

Two completely seperate things. You're trying to say the best basketball player in the history of the sport, who lived and breathed the game his entire life, isnt a good judge of who's skills are the most exceptional? Drafting Kwame is a completely different thing, he drafted him not because he was a spectacular player but because he had the size and potential to be. Potential is intangible, its easy to get wrong. As far as judging players on how they are in the here and how can someone like Michael Jordan be bad at reasoning on that?

I'd like someone to name all the things Jordan has said pertaining to players and their skill level, that didnt have to do with potential or anything like that, that would validate a claim that his analysis and reasoning on basketball should be anything but great.

[jaydacris]

aap's opinion > jordan's opinion

[geeWiz15]

Give us some examples. Just curious.
first you give me some examples of something that MJ has said or done post-retirement that turned out well.


What does that have to do with anything?
you really gonna make me spell it out for you?

1. Kobe plays exactly like MJ, acts exactly like MJ, has patterned his game, image, and life around MJ.

2. MJ has a huge ego so he naturally assumes everything he does is superior.

3. connect the dots. assuming MJ likes everything MJ does, and Kobe does everything MJ does, MJ is going to like Kobe. ESPECIALLY now that he's retired (so its not a matter of competition) and has adapted a "grandfather of the league" attitude he feels like its time to name his "replacement."

remember when MJ traded Rip for Stack? 100% ego; that move had no other justification. Rip used to beat MJ in shooting competitions in practice and wouldn't let him be Basketball Hitler and resented the fascist hierarchy he and Doug Collins created within the team, and spoke out against it. so he got traded. and for who? an MJ ripoff clone. if MJ knew anything about basketball and didn't have a huge ego, he'd realize that adding Stackhouse made absolutely no sense in any regard because he and MJ were too similar and the team had other weaknesses. But MJ sees a hint of himself in Stack and THAT's why he dealt for Stack and that's the exact same reason that this retarded statement has leaked out of his mouth and now all of a sudden Kobe groupies are coming out of the woodwork and acting like MJ has any credibility whatsoever.

anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that Kobe is not the best player in the game. and since now we have learned that everything Jordan has tried to do in the NBA post-retirement has been an apocalyptic misfire, and since now we know that MJ is going to naturally going to tickle his ego as much as possible, I think we can pretty much dismiss MJ's opinion on not just this matter but all others as well.

I only care what MJ has to say about playing basketball and working hard. because thats what MJ has proven to be great at. analyzing a game and playing it are two entirely different things; case in point: Isiah Thomas. MJ has no credibility in this arena. to act like he does just because he supports your opinion is dishonest. and to play dumb when questioned is even moreso.

[hotsizzle]

first you give me some examples of something that MJ has said or done post-retirement that turned out well.

anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that Kobe is not the best player in the game. and since now we have learned that everything Jordan has tried to do in the NBA post-retirement has been an apocalyptic misfire, and since now we know that MJ is going to naturally going to tickle his ego as much as possible, I think we can pretty much dismiss MJ's opinion on not just this matter but all others as well.


then half the league doesnt know anything about basketball...

[eliteballer]

[QUOTE]Bryant ist Jordans Favorit

Doch in der NBA schwingen jetzt andere das Zepter. Einen Favoriten f

[04mzwach]

Thomas? How did you get his name?

[XxNeXuSxX]

....So his real quote is actually
"If I may choose myself only an only for that, I take Kobe Bryant." Also that a thought game. For for that, "His Airness" was and is the best of all times.

[picc84]

then half the league doesnt know anything about basketball...

Exactly. Apparently MJ doesnt know anything about basketball either, despite being its proverbial stepfather. And half the coaches in the league dont either, apparently. Etc.

[XxNeXuSxX]

was asked what he believes about the future of the league and the development after his retirement.

He answered, "well the NBA is in great hands but if I had to pick the single greatest player on the planet, I take Kobe Bryant without hesitation".

This was never asked according to the link, nice job manUTD.

[Kobe24]

first you give me some examples of something that MJ has said or done post-retirement that turned out well.


you really gonna make me spell it out for you?

1. Kobe plays exactly like MJ, acts exactly like MJ, has patterned his game, image, and life around MJ.

2. MJ has a huge ego so he naturally assumes everything he does is superior.

3. connect the dots. assuming MJ likes everything MJ does, and Kobe does everything MJ does, MJ is going to like Kobe. ESPECIALLY now that he's retired (so its not a matter of competition) and has adapted a "grandfather of the league" attitude he feels like its time to name his "replacement."

remember when MJ traded Rip for Stack? 100% ego; that move had no other justification. Rip used to beat MJ in shooting competitions in practice and wouldn't let him be Basketball Hitler and resented the fascist hierarchy he and Doug Collins created within the team, and spoke out against it. so he got traded. and for who? an MJ ripoff clone. if MJ knew anything about basketball and didn't have a huge ego, he'd realize that adding Stackhouse made absolutely no sense in any regard because he and MJ were too similar and the team had other weaknesses. But MJ sees a hint of himself in Stack and THAT's why he dealt for Stack and that's the exact same reason that this retarded statement has leaked out of his mouth and now all of a sudden Kobe groupies are coming out of the woodwork and acting like MJ has any credibility whatsoever.

anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that Kobe is not the best player in the game. and since now we have learned that everything Jordan has tried to do in the NBA post-retirement has been an apocalyptic misfire, and since now we know that MJ is going to naturally going to tickle his ego as much as possible, I think we can pretty much dismiss MJ's opinion on not just this matter but all others as well.

I only care what MJ has to say about playing basketball and working hard. because thats what MJ has proven to be great at. analyzing a game and playing it are two entirely different things; case in point: Isiah Thomas. MJ has no credibility in this arena. to act like he does just because he supports your opinion is dishonest. and to play dumb when questioned is even moreso.

You're the one who brought it up retard. If you have no examples then admit it but don't try to spin it around.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Exactly. Apparently MJ doesnt know anything about basketball either, despite being its proverbial stepfather. And half the coaches in the league dont either, apparently. Etc.


That's Geewiz getting a little over his head and talking out of his $#. He knows that Kobe is a great HOF talent, but he is taking positions of other people's shoes sort of.

[FabCasablancas]

Scottie Pippen also said Melo was better than Dirk last season..

Just because they are great doesn't make them right. They are human.. they see elements of theirself in some way in certain players and it makes them biased.

[ManUtd]

Jordan said it..Kobe's the best!!!

[XxNeXuSxX]

Jordan said it..Kobe's the best!!!

Way to respond to my post, you clearly blindly misquoted him. F*ck, you did it twice in one post.

[ManUtd]

Way to respond to my post, you clearly blindly misquoted him. F*ck, you did it twice in one post.

How did I misquote him? I speak a bit of German and Jordan clearly said that Kobe's the best.
What's there to argue you idiot?

[XxNeXuSxX]

How did I misquote him? I speak a bit of German and Jordan clearly said that Kobe's the best.
What's there to argue you idiot?


Because that's not what he fu*king said you clown.

[ManUtd]

That is what he said.

Doch in der NBA schwingen jetzt andere das Zepter. Einen Favoriten f

[XxNeXuSxX]

Which again I will say, translates to this
Yet in the NBA, other swing now the scepter. Jordan has a favorite for the title of the presently best player of the world immediately ready: "If I may choose myself only an only for that, I take Kobe Bryant."

Not even fu*king close to what you said in the original post.


Yes, he never said "Kobe is easily the best" or any of that other crap you said he did. He simply answered the question who is the best right now, and he said "If I choose somone, it would be Kobe"

[picc84]

Thats basically the same thing. "Easily" or not, he said Kobe's the best. Its no big deal.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

You guys act like Michael Jordan is the first professional basektball player to ever say Kobe is the best player in the league. It's crazy how you haters reach and how often you reach. Somehow MJ trading Rip Hamilton has some kind of relevance to what MJ said about Kobe? Uh huh. I guess these GM's need to lose there jobs for giving jobs to coaches who also think Kobe is the best in the league.

[hotsizzle]

You guys act like Michael Jordan is the first professional basektball player to ever say Kobe is the best player in the league. It's crazy how you haters reach and how often you reach. Somehow MJ trading Rip Hamilton has some kind of relevance to what MJ said about Kobe? Uh huh. I guess these GM's need to lose there jobs for giving jobs to coaches who also think Kobe is the best in the league.

:applause:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

"Kobe is easily the best"


He simply answered the question who is the best right now, and he said "If I choose somone, it would be Kobe"

Yeah, not even close....

[XxNeXuSxX]

Yeah, not even close....


You are right, it isn't. If you quote someone, you get the quote right. God dammit kids, this isn't hard to understand.

[eliteballer]

I think we all know Kobe IS the heir apparent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju_rG3DtBnM

:pimp:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

You are right, it isn't. If you quote someone, you get the quote right. God dammit kids, this isn't hard to understand.

Oh stfu. Who the *****kk are you? The context wasn't even in english you a-hole. Go nitpick about something that matters. MJ said Kobe is the best in the league. Get over it. You act like dude said MJ said Kobe is the best when MJ said Kobe is the worst.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Oh stfu. Who the *****kk are you? The context wasn't even in english you a-hole. Go nitpick about something that matters. MJ said Kobe is the best in the league. Get over it. You act like dude said MJ said Kobe is the best when MJ said Kobe is the worst.

Dumbass, I never said he didn't say it, but most regular people would want the quote correct and in context so they could understand the situation. We are not talking on a 7th grade AIM level here, people want information and want it correctly. If you did this as a journalist, you would be FIRED and possibly sued immediately. So it does f*cking matter you dipsh*t.


Now go to sleep your bedtime is almost passed. Don't want to miss the school bus in the morning!

[geeWiz15]

ok if you guys are going to go over my posts looking for diction flaws instead of facing my point, I'll amend my statement: you can know SOMETHING about basketball and still think Kobe is the best player in the game. you'll just be wrong on that PARTICULAR thing.

there. now you're forced to actually tell me why MJ has credibility. and stop bringing up other players. I'm not talking about other players, you are. this topic is about what MJ said. I come in, and explain to you why what MJ says has no credibility, whether I agree with it or not, it is to be disregarded. and then you start vaguely mentioning other players who have echoed similar sentiments.

I barely even mentioned Kobe in here. my point is that whatever your position is on this issue, what MJ things is irrelevant and isn't credible support for your argument, and that is the defacto thesis of this post: MJ agrees, so my opnion is more valid. and I tell you why it's nonsense.


That's Geewiz getting a little over his head and talking out of his $#. He knows that Kobe is a great HOF talent, but he is taking positions of other people's shoes sort of.
?

youre going to have to rephrase that cause I have no idea what youre trying to say.

[XxNeXuSxX]

?

youre going to have to rephrase that cause I have no idea what youre trying to say.

It wasn't an attack on you, it was relating to the part where you said no one who knows about basketball would say Kobe is the best there is. I'm just saying that's getting in over your head because there are always people who think a certain way and will keep bias. You, obviously, recognize his talent, but talent alone does not make someone in the league the most valuable. What makes someone valuable is someone that you can count on to win you games, that is where Tim Duncan still surpasses all in my opinion. Not saying Kobe doesn't at all, it's just where I think your view stands as well.

Oh jesus I'm rambling again, I got to stop smoking reefer before going on ISH. :D

[eliteballer]

:rolleyes: I wonder who we should listen to, a snot-nosed teenager like geewiz or Michael Jordan?

[ManUtd]

Stop using babelfish and those other translators. Words get lost in the translation.

Here's what Jordan said

"If I had to choose only one player for title of best basketball player on the planet, I choose Kobe Bryant, without hesitation."

[Lakerfan1-Iceland]

This is actually pretty funny!
How can you say that what MJ says about basketball or basketball players has no credibility??
Michael Jordan is arguably the greatest player ever and if he has a personal opnion on something basketball related you better think me and millions of people will rather listen or read and respect his opinion rather than say Your opninion geeWiz!
Your opinion geeWiz is irrelevent and lacks credibility



ok if you guys are going to go over my posts looking for diction flaws instead of facing my point, I'll amend my statement: you can know SOMETHING about basketball and still think Kobe is the best player in the game. you'll just be wrong on that PARTICULAR thing.

there. now you're forced to actually tell me why MJ has credibility. and stop bringing up other players. I'm not talking about other players, you are. this topic is about what MJ said. I come in, and explain to you why what MJ says has no credibility, whether I agree with it or not, it is to be disregarded. and then you start vaguely mentioning other players who have echoed similar sentiments.

I barely even mentioned Kobe in here. my point is that whatever your position is on this issue, what MJ things is irrelevant and isn't credible support for your argument, and that is the defacto thesis of this post: MJ agrees, so my opnion is more valid. and I tell you why it's nonsense.


?

youre going to have to rephrase that cause I have no idea what youre trying to say.

[lakers-city]

tim duncan or kobe are the best in the league right now.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Stop using babelfish and those other translators. Words get lost in the translation.

Here's what Jordan said

"If I had to choose only one player for title of best basketball player on the planet, I choose Kobe Bryant, without hesitation."


I took a German class a while back and know some myself. and I don't see where he said ,"without hesitation" since the sentence itself ends at Kobe Bryant.

And he isn't saying "If I had to choose only one player for...." He is clearly being asked that by a media member where he responds with this:


Jordan has a favorite for the title of the presently best player of the world immediately ready:
"If I, myself may choose only and only for that, I take Kobe Bryant."

[RidonKs]

Scottie Pippen also said Melo was better than Dirk last season..

Just because they are great doesn't make them right. They are human.. they see elements of theirself in some way in certain players and it makes them biased.

Wow, can't believe you just said that. In the "Is Dirk Top Five" thread, you continuously brought up what Phil Jackson thought about the Finals. So Scottie Pippen, a top five SF ever, isn't always right, but if Phil, says it, it must be true? Okay then.

[MaxFly]

Two completely seperate things. You're trying to say the best basketball player in the history of the sport, who lived and breathed the game his entire life, isnt a good judge of who's skills are the most exceptional? Drafting Kwame is a completely different thing, he drafted him not because he was a spectacular player but because he had the size and potential to be. Potential is intangible, its easy to get wrong. As far as judging players on how they are in the here and how can someone like Michael Jordan be bad at reasoning on that?


Again, let me make this clear, the statement I made earlier was made in order to point out that Michael Jordan's basketball acumen is not infallible, not that he isn't a good judge of skill. There's been a trend of late to take as gospel anything that Jordan says: the "Jordan said it so it must be true" movement. It should be taken as what it is... a great basketball player stating his opinion. I'm not saying that his opinion doesn't carry any weight, but I am saying that it surely isn't the be all and end all of this debate. (didn't mean for that to rhyme)

What generally happens is that Jordan will say something like this, people will latch onto it as gospel because Jordan says it, and then when he later changes his opinion, people tear him down and criticize his basketball knowledge. Unlikely... no... the same happened with Tex Winter... in the past, he said that Bryant was the best player in the league, then more recently, made similar comments about D. Wade's play... people started calling him senile...

So using you own words, let me again explain the purpose of the statement...

I'm "trying to say the best basketball player in the history of the sport, who lived and breathed the game his entire life, isnt an infallible judge of who's skills are the most exceptional?"

As a result, we shouldn't put more weight than is necessary on what he says. The Kwame Brown quip was simply a witty way of expressing that. Also, Jordan's errors with Kwame Brown weren't simply limited to estimations of his potential, but also his work ethic and his actual skill level at the time of the draft. Remember, it didn't take long for the organization to realize that Kwame Brown did not meet their expectations... It was already evident in training camp that year.

[hotsizzle]

:rolleyes: I wonder who we should listen to, a snot-nosed teenager like geewiz or Michael Jordan?

are you kidding? MJ doesnt know anything about basketball because he thinks the Kobe is the best. Apparently, half the nba, GMs, and coaches dont know sh!t about basketball either, go with geewiz man, hes always right:rolleyes:

[lakers-city]

can you please make a point instead of just kissing kobe's butt ? of course jordan's opinions means a lot but if he said wade is the best you would all be calling him a hater or ignorant or whatever, dont be hypocrites.

jordan's opinion carries a lot of weight but it aint some gospel, divine truth.

that said i think kobe is the best with duncan a very close second, if duncan wins a 4th ring this season he'll be the best in the league, he'll even surpass shaq because he'll probably win finals MVP and will have 4 of those.

[hotsizzle]

can you please make a point instead of just kissing kobe's butt ? of course jordan's opinions means a lot but if he said wade is the best you would all be calling him a hater or ignorant or whatever, dont be hypocrites.

jordan's opinion carries a lot of weight but it aint some gospel, divine truth.

that said i think kobe is the best with duncan a very close second, if duncan wins a 4th ring this season he'll be the best in the league, he'll even surpass shaq because he'll probably win finals MVP and will have 4 of those.

if this post is directed at me, i wasnt even saying how MJ is right and all that. I was talking about how geewiz said that anyone who knew anything about basketball knows the kobe isnt the best.

jordan's opinion means nothing but geewiz's response to it with that ridiculous statement is what most ppl are talking about

[2LeTTeRS KD]

first you give me some examples of something that MJ has said or done post-retirement that turned out well.


you really gonna make me spell it out for you?

1. Kobe plays exactly like MJ, acts exactly like MJ, has patterned his game, image, and life around MJ.

2. MJ has a huge ego so he naturally assumes everything he does is superior.

3. connect the dots. assuming MJ likes everything MJ does, and Kobe does everything MJ does, MJ is going to like Kobe. ESPECIALLY now that he's retired (so its not a matter of competition) and has adapted a "grandfather of the league" attitude he feels like its time to name his "replacement."

remember when MJ traded Rip for Stack? 100% ego; that move had no other justification. Rip used to beat MJ in shooting competitions in practice and wouldn't let him be Basketball Hitler and resented the fascist hierarchy he and Doug Collins created within the team, and spoke out against it. so he got traded. and for who? an MJ ripoff clone. if MJ knew anything about basketball and didn't have a huge ego, he'd realize that adding Stackhouse made absolutely no sense in any regard because he and MJ were too similar and the team had other weaknesses. But MJ sees a hint of himself in Stack and THAT's why he dealt for Stack and that's the exact same reason that this retarded statement has leaked out of his mouth and now all of a sudden Kobe groupies are coming out of the woodwork and acting like MJ has any credibility whatsoever.

anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that Kobe is not the best player in the game. and since now we have learned that everything Jordan has tried to do in the NBA post-retirement has been an apocalyptic misfire, and since now we know that MJ is going to naturally going to tickle his ego as much as possible, I think we can pretty much dismiss MJ's opinion on not just this matter but all others as well.

I only care what MJ has to say about playing basketball and working hard. because thats what MJ has proven to be great at. analyzing a game and playing it are two entirely different things; case in point: Isiah Thomas. MJ has no credibility in this arena. to act like he does just because he supports your opinion is dishonest. and to play dumb when questioned is even moreso.

Everyone is quick to mention how MJ killed teh Wizards please soembody explain this to me, how did Washington get the cap space to sign Gil Arenas? There is no executive I know that has never made a bad decision (check Jerry West's last 5 drafts before this year) but with MJ only his bad decisions are ever mentioned and no one ever speaks of his good decisions. He had bad luck with some players and his young teams developement being stunted when he laced up his Js and started playing instead of remaining an exec but all in all he was an average GM. Given the weakness of the drafts in the years he was in charge and the state of the team when he was hired, both capwise and talentwise, he didn't do half bad.

[lakers-city]

if this post is directed at me, i wasnt even saying how MJ is right and all that. I was talking about how geewiz said that anyone who knew anything about basketball knows the kobe isnt the best.

jordan's opinion means nothing but geewiz's response to it with that ridiculous statement is what most ppl are talking about

it wasnt directed at you, it was directed at all of those who made fun of geewiz when in fact he had some very good points about jordan being a very bad talent judge, im a fellow laker fan and i also think kobe is the best,hope we are ok :D

[Younggrease]

Jordan isnt a bad judge of talent. Kwame when he first came into the league before he broke his knuvkles and was almost as talented as a kg and more so than JO. But I think MJ just assumed that KWame would have the work ethic and mental fortitude to turn that talent into a top quality player.

ANother thing is that KWame would have been a top 2 pick no matter if Jordan was there or not. JOrdan wasnt the only one who misjuded Kwame. If Kwame never lost his touch, buy permanently hurting his hand, and had a work ethic he could have been regular all star.

[lakers-city]

not only he misjudged kwame but he also made the stupid rip-stakhouse trade, the guy is deffinitely a bad decision maker.

[hotsizzle]

it wasnt directed at you, it was directed at all of those who made fun of geewiz when in fact he had some very good points about jordan being a very bad talent judge, im a fellow laker fan and i also think kobe is the best,hope we are ok :D

yea we cool bro:cheers:

[hotsizzle]

Jordan isnt a bad judge of talent. Kwame when he first came into the league before he broke his knuvkles and was almost as talented as a kg and more so than JO. But I think MJ just assumed that KWame would have the work ethic and mental fortitude to turn that talent into a top quality player.

ANother thing is that KWame would have been a top 2 pick no matter if Jordan was there or not. JOrdan wasnt the only one who misjuded Kwame. If Kwame never lost his touch, buy permanently hurting his hand, and had a work ethic he could have been regular all star.

I agree and eventually I think Kwame is gonna shake that bust label and be a big contributor to lakers. Washington was a bad situation for him.

[BFRESH44]

not only he misjudged kwame but he also made the stupid rip-stakhouse trade, the guy is deffinitely a bad decision maker.


MJ wasn't all that bad as a GM. Hindsight is 20/20 so yeah you can look at the Stack/RIP Trade. But RIP fit perfectly into Detroit system thus making it look like they raped MJ/The Wiz in that trade....

And Kwame Brown MURKED Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry in pre-draft sessions. He would've been the no.1 pick regardless of who had the pick. All his workout prior were no indicative of how much of pu$$y and bum he turned out to be...

One positive feat MJ that undeniably accomplished as a GM which many thought was impossible was by managing to move Juwan Howard's contract out of Washington. (Thank god that conract sheet that Riley had intially signed him too was nullified the the league by a salary cap infraction).



I agree and eventually I think Kwame is gonna shake that bust label and be a big contributor to lakers. Washington was a situation for him.

Kwame Brown will NEVER shake the bust label. All the hype he received and he hasn't even proved to be consistently servicable yet...

[Zombles]

i'd still rather have Duncan.

[Younggrease]

I agree and eventually I think Kwame is gonna shake that bust label and be a big contributor to lakers. Washington was a situation for him.

Kwame lost a lot of feel in his hands since he came in the league. Thats why is post looks so rigid. He might contribute but he wil never even tap into half of the talent he had on draft night.

[Real Men Wear Green]

So we basically have a translation of a translation (MJ doesn't speak German) where the OP didn't even link to the original story, but rather a forum topic on a Lakers message board that has buried, somewhere in there, a link to some German website.

If you're going to create garbage posts, don't make them this transparent, please. TY for nothing.

[RidonKs]

So we basically have a translation of a translation (MJ doesn't speak German) where the OP didn't even link to the original story, but rather a forum topic on a Lakers message board that has buried, somewhere in there, a link to some German website.

If you're going to create garbage posts, don't make them this transparent, please. TY for nothing.

:roll: Underrated funny man, right there.

[FabCasablancas]

Wow, can't believe you just said that. In the "Is Dirk Top Five" thread, you continuously brought up what Phil Jackson thought about the Finals. So Scottie Pippen, a top five SF ever, isn't always right, but if Phil, says it, it must be true? Okay then.

You are talking about 2 completely different things. To try to connect these completely different conversations is just sad and desperate.

Phil Jackson himself has said Kobe is the bes tplayer in the elague and I don't agree with him on that issue either. Because HE is also biased. But what bias does Phil have for Dirk in the Finals? haha Just lame.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

So we basically have a translation of a translation (MJ doesn't speak German) where the OP didn't even link to the original story, but rather a forum topic on a Lakers message board that has buried, somewhere in there, a link to some German website.

If you're going to create garbage posts, don't make them this transparent, please. TY for nothing.
:roll: right on, this groupie apparently crapped this quote out of his ass and now it looks like MJ may not even have said this.

lets wait until it at least goes to some american news site.

[RidonKs]

I was commenting on the fact that you kept bringing up the fact that Phil said this and Phil said that. And then in this thread, you said...


Just because they are great doesn't make them right.

I was just pointing out the fact that you're a hypocrite for saying that because Phil said it about the Finals, it must be right. Fact is, not everyone's correct, and just because one guy said something, doesn't mean it's written in stone. Bias had nothing to do with my statement.

[Younggrease]

SKill wise he is by far the best player in the game but he has put it all together. But even now its him and duncan.

[TheHonestTruth]

Stern told him to say that.

[hawkfan]

http://people.ucsc.edu/~mj23jr3/Michael%20Jordan%20(2-9-03%20vs.%20West)%20guarded%20by%20Kobe%20Bryant.bm p

From days gone by.

[hotsizzle]

^^^kobe is wearing jordans

[HippinHoopster]

There are several guys I would rather have instead of Kobe. Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, D-Wade.

[FabCasablancas]

I was commenting on the fact that you kept bringing up the fact that Phil said this and Phil said that. And then in this thread, you said...



I was just pointing out the fact that you're a hypocrite for saying that because Phil said it about the Finals, it must be right. Fact is, not everyone's correct, and just because one guy said something, doesn't mean it's written in stone. Bias had nothing to do with my statement.

You are so owned it's funny. You are still smarting a month later. haha

[lakerfreak]

Yes, he never said "Kobe is easily the best" or any of that other crap you said he did. He simply answered the question who is the best right now, and he said "If I choose somone, it would be Kobe"

well i guess he meant he is easily the best right now.

But of all time, Kobe is easily top 10. easily

[RidonKs]

You are so owned it's funny. You are still smarting a month later. haha

Way to respond to my post. But anyways, since I'm "owned", I better not come back to this thread. People might be laughing at me. :rollingeyes:

[AirGauge23]

well i guess he meant he is easily the best right now.

But of all time, Kobe is easily top 10. easily

He's not top 10 yet, he has more individual accomplishments in order to be considered that high.

[hotsizzle]

well i guess he meant he is easily the best right now.

But of all time, Kobe is easily top 10. easily

this is why people see us as delusional and despise kobe/laker fans. hes 22-28

[RidonKs]

Agreed. Kobe in the top ten of all time is laughable, considering (I hate to say this) he hasn't done ANYTHING as the leader of his team. He'll have a shot at top ten within the next few years, but at the moment, he's not even close.

[hotsizzle]

I've idolized kobe ever since I started following basketball. I've modeled my game after him and everything. And I wish the best for him but Im not stupid enough to say hes top 10 ever and anyone who does apparently has no knowledge of the legends that played this game. sry lakerfreak. do I think he'll end up top 10..yes, I think he'll end up top 5 actually, but to make that statement right now is ridiculous.

[Hawker]

duncan=best player in league

[eliteballer]

Where O where are Knoe and LOCO? Those chumps steered clear of ISH on this day:pimp:

[Raja]

:rolleyes:
He wasn't even the best on his team when he won those 3 championships.
Now that he is the man running the team, they get dropped in the 1st round like a Raja Bell clothesline.:roll: He is the best righttt! D.Wade is a better overall player than K.O.B.E.

[ZonaFlash]

:rolleyes:
He wasn't even the best on his team when he won those 3 championships.
Now that he is the man running the team, they get dropped in the 1st round like a Raja Bell clothesline.:roll: He is the best righttt! D.Wade is a better overall player than K.O.B.E.

Cosigned.

[Raja]

well i guess he meant he is easily the best right now.

But of all time, Kobe is easily top 10. easilyYou are out of your mind... Top ten all time?:rolleyes:

here is 13 greater players than K.O.B.E.


Jordan
Majic
Bird
Shaq
Bill Russell
Wilt
Oscar Robinson
Karl Malone
Barkley
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Elgin Baylor
Nate Archibald
Isiah Thomas

[Hotlantadude81]

Until Kobe plays a team game I don't know if I can call him the best. That's the NBA's problem now.

But it's not crazy to say such a thing... Just because MJ said it that doesn't make it true. C'mon guys.... Listen to Barkley/Pippen and other former greats. Despite the fact that they had great careers, they say so much crazy stuff that it almost makes you want to forget they were top 50 players.

[Hotlantadude81]

well i guess he meant he is easily the best right now.

But of all time, Kobe is easily top 10. easily

No he isn't. He doesn't even play a team game. There's still a few years to change is flaw, but his play in that last game againest the Suns really gave me a sour feeling. Not impressed.

[final.wrath]

No he isn't. He doesn't even play a team game. There's still a few years to change is flaw, but his play in that last game againest the Suns really gave me a sour feeling. Not impressed.

a sour feeling because he didn't play enough of a team game in game 7 against the suns? did you even watch that game?

[A Roc 23]

Very few posters on ISH don't acknowledge the fact that Kobe is the most talented INDIVIDUAL player in the world. I would argue he is not the best basketball player (basketball is, afterall, a team sport). I would also argue that he has more talent then anyone else in the NBA right now.

I don't see why Laker fans are going nuts. MJ is just saying what most of us think already. Also, MJ is biased because Kobe plays a very similar style to his. Studies show that people are more prone to like things that they can relate too and that they see themselves in.

Anyone remember when Scottie Pippen said Carmelo was better then Dirk?

[Horde of Temujin]

Kobes simply the best, hands down
And as for Kwame Brown hes still only 23, people just have different learning curves. Just wait and see after a couple of more years under Phils tutelage.

[PleezeBelieve]

Kobes simply the best, hands down
And as for Kwame Brown hes still only 23, people just have different learning curves. Just wait and see after a couple of more years under Phils tutelage.
If it's an consensus that a 21 year-old LeBron was better than a 27 year-old Kobe, then shouldn't it be safe to speculate a 22 year-old LeBron is still better than Kobe's ever been?

[hotsizzle]

If it's an consensus that a 21 year-old LeBron was better than a 27 year-old Kobe, then shouldn't it be safe to speculate a 22 year-old LeBron is still better than Kobe's ever been?

isnt it safe to say that a 17 yr old kobe had a better shot and better defense than a 22 yr old lebron.

[PleezeBelieve]

isnt it safe to say that a 17 yr old kobe had a better shot and better defense than a 22 yr old lebron.
Isn't safe to say that ESPN have/will vouch for LeBron being the better player?

[loot]

MJ knows what's up! GREATNESS recognizes GREATNESS.


http://origin.nba.com/media/draft2002/memories_brown.jpg

[hotsizzle]

Isn't safe to say that ESPN have/will vouch for LeBron being the better player?

ESPN, NBA, ABC will shove lebron down everyone's throats whether they like it or not...kobe is gonna take matters into his own hands, wait and see.

[jaydacris]

Isn't safe to say that ESPN have/will vouch for LeBron being the better player?

espn also thinks tim duncan is ranked 18th in the nba

[Real Men Wear Green]

Very few posters on ISH don't acknowledge the fact that Kobe is the most talented INDIVIDUAL player in the world.

I bet that LeBron James is viewed as the more talented player...and he is.

[Vragrant]

well i guess he meant he is easily the best right now.

But of all time, Kobe is easily top 10. easily

Bryant isn't even greater alltime than Shaq or Duncan.

He's not the greatest player in his own generation (yet) let alone top ten.

[Loki]

I bet that LeBron James is viewed as the more talented player...and he is.

I wouldn't call Lebron more talented than Kobe, and I dislike Kobe. I'd say they have comparable talent, with Kobe having possibly a slight edge. Lebron is definitely more unique, however; this uniqueness, combined with his talent (and his age and room for growth in his game), is why many think his ceiling will be higher than Kobe's.

[Knoe Itawl]

Where O where are Knoe and LOCO? Those chumps steered clear of ISH on this day:pimp:

The thing that makes you such an insufferable jackass is that you spend your whole time on here trying to downplay Jordan's career, now all of a sudden his word is the gospel to you. Further, if he had said Bron was the best player you would have dismissed it, now wouldn't you have?

MJ is entitled to his opinion, however I strongly disagree with it. I think geewiz hit on something in that he sees that his style is a carbon copy of his (but far inferior) and considers that the best. I would love to debate MJ on the topic. I'm willing to bet I could make him concede that it's at least debatable.

At any rate, this quote is as meaningless to me as it would have been to a Kobe Groupie if Jordan had said Bron or Wade was the best.

The bottom line is that Jesus himself could come down to earth and say Kobe is the best, but it won't change the fact that he still has to prove to the majority of us (non Kobe Groupies) that he's head and shoulders above the league, which only Kobe Groupies believe he has. Most think it's a toss up between a couple of swingmen, with Duncan being the top player in the game.

Further, i would LOVE to ask MJ if he thinks that he would have blown a 3-1 lead, gone out with a whimper in a GAME SEVEN or played that poorly in the FINALS with Shaq on his team.

That's what I'd love to get MJ's opinion on.

I need more from the best player in the game than that.

[eliteballer]

If it's an consensus that a 21 year-old LeBron was better than a 27 year-old Kobe, then shouldn't it be safe to speculate a 22 year-old LeBron is still better than Kobe's ever been?

Coming from the biggest Bron groupie on the boards, that doesn't mean much.


The thing that makes you such an insufferable jackass is that you spend your whole time on here trying to downplay Jordan's career, now all of a sudden his word is the gospel to you. Further, if he had said Bron was the best player you would have dismissed it, now wouldn't you have?


Say what? I just don't consider Jordan a deity as you do. You would suck the man off given the chance. If he HAD said anyone else was the best player, then YOU wouldn't be questioning it, now would you?

[XxNeXuSxX]

Say what? I just don't consider Jordan a deity as you do. You would suck the man off given the chance. If he HAD said anyone else was the best player, then YOU wouldn't be questioning it, now would you?

Yes he would...? It's a debatable question, there is, quite frankly, no correct answer as it's all subjected to opinion.

[picc84]

He didnt say Wade or Bron was the best, he said Kobe. There arent alternate realities where he said their names, and we have to debate taking all of them into consideration. He said Kobe. There's no "what if he said..." and "well, if he said [ ] I would say..." crap. He didnt. And its a little arrogant for anyone to think they are considering points that the greatest player ever and avid watcher of the game wouldnt know about. As if he doesnt know Kobe lost a 3-1 lead.

[A Roc 23]

I bet that LeBron James is viewed as the more talented player...and he is.

Yeah, Lebron is a close second for me. I just remembered a thread a while back where a majority (50%+) chose Kobe.

I do believe that in his prime Lebron will be more talented and successful then Kobe.

[hotsizzle]

I think what kobe fans are trying to point out here is that how Jordan, who alot of people admire here (including myself) agrees with what kobe fans have been saying about "kobe being the best player" and getting ripped and called kobe groupies for. I dont know if that makes any sense but for example, when elite called out knoe, it was because knoe usually calls out alot of fans as a "kobe cult" because they say that kobe is the best in the game..but even jordan is saying that.

[EricForman]

if kobe had the help TD has we'd be discussing the latest lakers championship. even garnett is better than duncan.


first of all, you don't know basketball. The "Garnett is better than Duncan" claim may have been legit in 2003, not anymore. Duncan is one level above KG.

Second, I'm sick and tired of clowns implying Duncan only "wins" because his team is stacked and he has a good cast. The dude has won three rings with two totally different supporting cast. He won in 2003 with Manu as a rookie, Tony as a raw second year player, and Stephen Jackson as the second best player.

Kobe would win a title with Manu, tony Parker and Robert horry? Sorry, probably not. Switch Kobe and Duncan straight up, Lakers wouldb e better than the Spurs

[EricForman]

a few things

- there's the difference between a subjective guy that don't like Kobe (me) and some of the clown immature haters, only the latter would make a stupid claim like Kobe isn't one of the best. Kobe is clearly one of the best individual player in the league and probably the most skilled. Any intelligent bball fan will admit to this, regardless of if they like Kobe or not, so why are Kobe fans getting a boner just because Jordan said Kobe was the best?

- considering the fact Kobe is in his ABSOLUTE prime right now, and Lebron is only 21, it's safe to say Lebron has the potential to be better since the gap between kobe and Lebron cannot be that big at all. It's also safe to say a 21 years old Lebron was light years ahead of a 21 year old Kobe.

Laker fans... just because Jordan said Kobe is the best now, isn't really that crazy of a compliment, so in the words of Harvey Keitel from Pulp Fiction.... "let's not start sucking each other's **** just quite yet"

[Y2Gezee]

Duncan, but Kobe is number 2, well unless Tmac comes back with a vengance. Tmac when healthy is just as good as Kobe, only easier to like.

[Knoe Itawl]

Coming from the biggest Bron groupie on the boards, that doesn't mean much.



Say what? I just don't consider Jordan a deity as you do. You would suck the man off given the chance. If he HAD said anyone else was the best player, then YOU wouldn't be questioning it, now would you?

So if you don't think he's so great, why do you care what he said about Kobe you hypocrite ****kk.

[Knoe Itawl]

I think what kobe fans are trying to point out here is that how Jordan, who alot of people admire here (including myself) agrees with what kobe fans have been saying about "kobe being the best player" and getting ripped and called kobe groupies for. I dont know if that makes any sense but for example, when elite called out knoe, it was because knoe usually calls out alot of fans as a "kobe cult" because they say that kobe is the best in the game..but even jordan is saying that.


I call people Kobe Groupies, not for believing Kobe is the best, but for being devoid of the ability to reason, and having one sole agenda that Kobe be the greatest of all time regardless of what he actually does. Get it straight.

[Knoe Itawl]

first of all, you don't know basketball. The "Garnett is better than Duncan" claim may have been legit in 2003, not anymore. Duncan is one level above KG.

Second, I'm sick and tired of clowns implying Duncan only "wins" because his team is stacked and he has a good cast. The dude has won three rings with two totally different supporting cast. He won in 2003 with Manu as a rookie, Tony as a raw second year player, and Stephen Jackson as the second best player.

Kobe would win a title with Manu, tony Parker and Robert horry? Sorry, probably not. Switch Kobe and Duncan straight up, Lakers wouldb e better than the Spurs

These same groupies talking about Duncan's team didn't bother to consider that when Bryant was winning titles with arguably the most dominant player of all time with Phil coaching and excellent role players.

that's why people hate Kobe Groupies. Not because they like Kobe, but because they switch up their arguments all the time in order to come up with more ways to glorify Bryant.

[hotsizzle]

I call people Kobe Groupies, not for believing Kobe is the best, but for being devoid of the ability to reason, and having one sole agenda that Kobe be the greatest of all time regardless of what he actually does. Get it straight.

no, anyone who thinks kobe is the best belongs into your so-called "kobe cult" that you bring up almost everytime you type a post. and no one on here thinks kobe is the greatest of all time and if there is, then you rly shouldnt take them seriously. you also seem to blow things up..if I come in and make an arguement for Kobe, you will blow up and put words in my mouth to make me sound like a groupie. thats your agenda knoe

[Knoe Itawl]

no, anyone who thinks kobe is the best belongs into your so-called "kobe cult" that you bring up almost everytime you type a post. and no one on here thinks kobe is the greatest of all time and if there is, then you rly shouldnt take them seriously. you also seem to blow things up..if I come in and make an arguement for Kobe, you will blow up and put words in my mouth to make me sound like a groupie. thats your agenda knoe

Don't be a dumb ass. I just told you what I believe. If you want to believe Kobe is the best player in the game, that's your business. I won't automatically call you a groupie, as I've said over and over again. If you start acting like it's not debatable and coming up with all kinds of arguments that don't make sense like Kobe Groupies are world famous for then I'll call it as I see it.

Don't try to pretend like it's only Knoe Itawl that calls out Kobe Groupies for their bullshyt because you know damn well that's not the case.

And if you come in and make an argument that I don't agree with, I attack it and poke holes in it. That's my style. If you don't agree with it, debate me point by point like I would do with you.

[hotsizzle]

Don't be a dumb ass. I just told you what I believe. If you want to believe Kobe is the best player in the game, that's your business. I won't automatically call you a groupie, as I've said over and over again. If you start acting like it's not debatable and coming up with all kinds of arguments that don't make sense like Kobe Groupies are world famous for then I'll call it as I see it.

Don't try to pretend like it's only Knoe Itawl that calls out Kobe Groupies for their bullshyt because you know damn well that's not the case.

And if you come in and make an argument that I don't agree with, I attack it and poke holes in it. That's my style. If you don't agree with it, debate me point by point like I would do with you.

me and you have had a decent relationship in the past so yea, i know you never did attack me personally, but you gotta admit, in alot of your posts..the last one or two lines are something like "see, thats how kobe gropies think..blah,blah,blah" when sometimes, the arguement shows no signs of "groupism"...I'll try to find some examples if I can. and yes, you do argue point by point and alot of it is relevant arguements, the only thing that irritates me is like I said when you bring up that "you're a groupie" to an arguement that is completely relevant. I understand your frustation, because I felt the same way when some dumbass said kobe is top 10 all time easily, but you seem to generalize the groupie label too much. either way, keep aruguing because it provides good discussion to basketball (see legendary mamba-knoe battles)

[Knoe Itawl]

me and you have had a decent relationship in the past so yea, i know you never did attack me personally, but you gotta admit, in alot of your posts..the last one or two lines are something like "see, thats how kobe gropies think..blah,blah,blah" when sometimes, the arguement shows no signs of "groupism"...I'll try to find some examples if I can. and yes, you do argue point by point and alot of it are relevant arguements, the only thing that irritates me is like I said when you bring up that "you're a groupie" to an arguement that is completely relevant. I understand your frustation, because I felt the same way when some dumbass said kobe is top 10 all time easily, but you seem to generalize the groupie label too much. either way, keep aruguing because it provides good discussion to basketball (see legendary mamba-knoe battles)

I've said it over and over again that being a Kobe fan doesn't automatically make you a groupie. Here's what does it:

A. Having your mind made up that Kobe is already GOAT and therefore it doesn't even matter what he does the rest of his career, because it's already set in stone as his destiny.

B. An inablity to EVER concecede Bryant's flaws, and the cracks in his game.

C. An inablity to EVER acknowledge Bryant's failures and the fact that they HAVE to be factored in with his accomplishments in order to accurately portray his career.

D. Getting PERSONALLY offended that someone doesn't like him. You don't know him. He's not your brother. He's not your friend. He's not even your acquaintance. So why would you feel the need to attack someone else just because they dislike him? He's a public figure who's EARNED a lot of his poor reputation.

E. Pretending that Shaq wasn't the alpha male in the Laker championships, and trying to downplay his importance in them.

F. Being hypocritical when arguing about him. For example, when Tmac was putting up numbers in Orlando, Kobe was winning more so he was the best. Now that Wade is winning more, he's not the best, though he should be by that argument.

G. Pretending that his team is the most important factor in the history of basketball. Do you know how many players have not had good teams??? Why is this huge deal made out of the fact that Kobe's team isn't the best? I never saw this argument used for Iverson, TMac, Pierce, Vince and on and on when they were on some pretty poor teams. With Kobe, that's all his fans want to talk about "his team, his team". Blah.

H. Hating any players that are a "threat" to him, be it Shaq, Jordan, Bron, Wade and on and on. Truly disgusting.

There are a few other things, but you get the picture. Basically, it's being an unreasonable, illogical, hero worshipping FANATIC.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I wouldn't call Lebron more talented than Kobe, and I dislike Kobe. I'd say they have comparable talent, with Kobe having possibly a slight edge. Lebron is definitely more unique, however; this uniqueness, combined with his talent (and his age and room for growth in his game), is why many think his ceiling will be higher than Kobe's.
Doesn't matter whether or not you like Bryant, this is just about their talents. And when looking at that, what talent does Bryant have over James? Addressing Bryant's possible advantages first, Bryant has a slight advantage in three-point percentage (1%) and a decided advantage in FT percentage (11%) that go along with what I've seen of the two of them to say that Bryant is the better shooter. And that's about it for Kobe Bryant's natural advantages. They are about equal as ballhandlers, but James is the better overall athlete with a major edge in strength (I don't think I need to explain this part), a lesser edge (though still decisive) in leaping ability, and at least Bryant's equal in speed (Steve Nash once said he gets from one FT line to the other faster than anyone in the NBA). And especially if their development rate is any indication, James' has the far greater basketball IQ. If you were to compare 21 year-old Bryant to LBJ James wins, no contest). LeBron James may be the most-talented non-big that the NBA has ever seen. Bryant was athletically blessed but LBJ is a freak of nature. I wouldn't be shocked if he was found out to be on steroids.

[crisoner]

Jordan's...that damn grooopie!!!

Is Jordanstar still around?

[disco]

MJ knows what's up! GREATNESS recognizes GREATNESS.

Whatever happened to that "JordanStar" guy. I'm sure he'll love reading this. :rockon:

Greatness recognizes greatness. Yeah right, like when MJ drafted Kwame.

[Kobe24]

Lebron is as good as Kobe in ball handling? Lebron averages more turnovers than Kobe and is notoriously known to travel and palm the ball a lot. Also,last year in training camp, Kobe's speed was on Feltons level and I doubt that Lebron is as fast as Felton.

[hotsizzle]

Greatness recognizes greatness. Yeah right, like when MJ drafted Kwame.

We've been through this. Kwame would have been taken top 2 no matter who was drafting.

[Kobe24]

Greatness recognizes greatness. Yeah right, like when MJ drafted Kwame.

That was said like 1000 times. New material kid.

[BFRESH44]

Lebron is as good as Kobe in ball handling? Lebron averages more turnovers than Kobe and is notoriously known to travel and palm the ball a lot. Also,last year in training camp, Kobe's speed was on Feltons level and I doubt that Lebron is as fast as Felton.

Dude are you serious?

Lebron at 6'8 240lbs from court end to court end is one of the fastest players in the league....

[hotsizzle]

haha no way is lebron better than kobe at ball handling.

[Kobe24]

Dude are you serious?

Lebron at 6'8 240lbs from court end to court end is one of the fastest players in the league....

Maybe now Lebron is faster due to Kobe being injured and all but not two seasons ago unless Rudy and the coaching staff lied to the media. :rolleyes:

[Real Men Wear Green]

LeBron James also averages more assists than Bryant. He gets some of his TOs passing. And I'm going to have to hit you upside the head with the calculator a little bit; James averages 3.3 turnovers per game to Bryant's 3.1. Are you going to act like this is a significant number? Like Bryant doesn't travel and palm? Heck, the biggest traveling and palming violators are probably AI and Dwyane Wade. So what does that tell you? Actually, I habve no idea what that tells you, but I know what you should be able to glean from that bit of information.

I love the guess that Bryant's speed was at Felton's level being used as evidence. Keep making these great points.

[hotsizzle]

all one has to do is watch them both and anyone who plays basketball knows that kobe is alot more superior in that area, ballhandling that is

[Indian guy]

Maybe now Lebron is faster due to Kobe being injured and all but not two seasons ago unless Rudy and the coaching staff lied to the media.

There's simply no way Kobe's end-to-end speed w/ or w/o the ball in his hands was ever as good as LeBron. No way. And I don't need to read any training camp report to come to that conclusion. I have my own eyes.There are only a handful of athletes between 6'5 to 6'8 in NBA history who I'd say were as fast as LeBron from one end of the basket to the other. Pippen MJ, Clyde and....can anyone think of anybody else?

[Real Men Wear Green]

How is James lacking as a ballhandler? He penetrates at will, doesn't get ripped, and has every dribble trick there is.

[LakersDynasty]

Marion. I don't think Lebron is faster than Kobe either.

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxy7np0dH5Q

That's Kobe at 20. Bron wasn't better than that *****:pimp:

[Real Men Wear Green]

You're only fooling yourself. When compared by age James beats Bryant handily in every statistic except free throw percentage.

[disco]

We've been through this. Kwame would have been taken top 2 no matter who was drafting.

It wasnt his only bad decision. And I think that draft was the most open ever (since I started to follow draft, at least). Even a day before there were talks at least about Battier and Chandler. Ok, it wasn;t the best of classes and there werent that many good options, but no one can say anything else about MJ in a front office job that he sucked.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxy7np0dH5Q

That's Kobe at 20. Bron wasn't better than that *****:pimp:

Oh great, dumba$$ eliteballer is still on the forum.


yes, that one clip must prove Kobe was better than Lebron at the age of 20 right? Even though Lebron was an MVP candidate at 20 while Kobe was getting beat on both ends? Yeah, okay elite.

[eliteballer]

A few things:

1. Kobe was playing on a better team, he didn't have the chance to put up his best numbers.

2. Bron was physically developed from the day he came into the league.

3. Bron plays in the weak East.

4. Bron doesn't play defense. Leaves him more energy for the offensive end.

[Indian guy]

There's no comparison, impact wise, between LeBron from 18-21 to Kobe during that age. None. Even the most moronic groupie should know that. And I don't wanna hear abt how LeBron puts up better numbers because he plays on a worse team. PER wise Kobe's never had a season as good as LeBron's 05-06. Heck, prior to 05-06 he'd had only one season where his PER was superior to LeBron's 2nd year in the league.

[eliteballer]

LOL @ indian guy pushing his agenda again. Your lame little PER stat also says that Moochie Norris was better than Jason Kidd in 2000. Kidd did 14.3 points, 7.2 rebounds, 10.1 assists, 2.0 steals. Moochie did 6.9 points, 2.3 rb, 3.1 assists, .8 steals. It also says Danny Fortson was better than Allen Iverson. Darrell Armstrong is higher than Kidd and Abdur-Rahim is higher than Iverson.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/labs/apbr.cgi?franch=All&first=2000&last=2000&combine=Yes&minage=0&maxage=99&stat=PER&min=500&sort=desc&limit=100&submit=View+Stat/

It's useless. If you want to go strictly by stats LeBron is better than 98 Jordan the last couple of years, if you want to make that claim be my guest.

[RidonKs]

Dude are you serious?

Lebron at 6'8 240lbs from court end to court end is one of the fastest players in the league....

I'm not sure about both player's speeds (hard to measure in an actual game, unless the played against each other and had an all out sprint for the ball) but I'm not sure why LeBron's body (height/weight) would have anything to do with him being faster than Kobe. Maybe faster for his size, but it has nothing to do with his actual speed. That's like saying Shaq is faster than AI, because he's 7'1 650lbs (or whatever he is nowadays).

[Indian guy]

LOL @ indian guy pushing his agenda again. Your lame little PER stat also says that Moochie Norris was better than Jason Kidd in 2000. Kidd did 14.3 points, 7.2 rebounds, 10.1 assists, 2.0 steals. Moochie did 6.9 points, 2.3 rb, 3.1 assists, .8 steals. It also says Danny Fortson was better than Allen Iverson. Darrell Armstrong is higher than Kidd and Abdur-Rahim is higher than Iverson.

I didn't say PER is the be all end all of determining player superiority. But it IS a great tool to compare and judge players of equal quality. Thus it IS a big deal when comparing players like Bron/Kobe, KG/TD, AI/Nash who all share a similar responsibility for their teams.


It's useless. If you want to go strictly by stats LeBron is better than 98 Jordan the last couple of years, if you want to make that claim be my guest.

Yes, statistically 05-06 LeBron(and Kobe too) is better than 97-98 MJ. I got no problem saying that. LeBron/Kobe are great players after all.

I only brought up PER because you were playing the "Kobe didn't get much time from 18-21", "he played on a better team", "wasn't as developed" card. I just wanted to point out that Kobe has NEVER been as impressive statistically as LeBron.

[eliteballer]

Sorry but any "tool" that says Armstrong and Abdur-Rahim are better producers than Kidd and AI per minute doesn't mean jack:stupid: There was a .06 difference between Kobe and LeBron's "PERs" last year, big deal:rolleyes:

[RidonKs]

I didn't say PER is the be all end all of determining player superiority. But it IS a great tool to compare and judge players of equal quality. Thus it IS a big deal when comparing players like Bron/Kobe, KG/TD, AI/Nash who all share a similar responsibility for their teams.

If eliteballer is correct with Norris being better than Kidd, and Fortson being better than AI, then that statement doesn't make any sense. How is PER even CLOSE to being accurate if it has those two MASSIVE flaws. Shouldn't a player of much better quality have a big advantage in PER when compared to a player of lesser quality? You'd think so wouldn't you.

[LAZYBOY]

Not saying Kobe isn't the best in the league but, GeeWiz made good points at why Jordan's opinion shoudn't be taken as pure truth. He did trade Rip for Stack, Rip got a ring. He did draft Kwame at #1. His career in the front office is questionable.

[305Baller]

Jordan should coach the Lakers after PJax.

[Se]

Efficiency ranking is bogus. Any ranking where Shawn Marion is near the top is ridiculous.

[PMshooter]

[QUOTE=Se

[RidonKs]

[QUOTE=Se

[Se]

Yeah, he's awful.

Well you couldn't have him as the main guy on a team. I don't care if it says he's better than Arenas or even Stephon Marbury, because he is a hustling role player, and that's it. You couldn't trade him and Melo, and have Denver make the playoffs.

[PMshooter]

You're right.

But, it's called the effeciency rating for a reason. It rates effeciency. I'm not sure what you take that to mean, but the stat does it's job properly.

[Edge]

This is coming from the greatest player to ever touch a basketball.
Haters should just give up. Kobe haters are the most pathetic idiots in the world. I'm going to kill them all.

[JtotheIzzo]

This is coming from the greatest player to ever touch a basketball.
Haters should just give up. Kobe haters are the most pathetic idiots in the world. I'm going to kill them all.

you cant even kill your bad breath

[LamarOdom]

So the LeBron vs Kobe even existed in LeBron's second year?

[riseagainst]

MJ didn't fail in recognizing this talent. :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

I guess MJ isn't a "hardcore" fan.....he must have never heard of "per":rolleyes:

[BoutPractice]

ISH still stuck in Groundhog Day.

[Mr Exlax]

Let's look at everybody that Jordan has drafted. He sure has a great eye for talent!

[AlphaWolf24]

Let's look at everybody that Jordan has drafted. He sure has a great eye for talent!


this ****!:lol


He watched 10 years of Kobe's game....(Kobe droppd 42 on him in 1 half / made him cry)


watching 10 years of a player's game> drafting highschool kids

[riseagainst]

Let's look at everybody that Jordan has drafted. He sure has a great eye for talent!

he's right this one time though. :bowdown:

[KOBE143]

MJ recognizing the real GOAT since 2006.. :bowdown:

[Ne 1]

Let's look at everybody that Jordan has drafted. He sure has a great eye for talent!

:oldlol: @ looking at the draft. 99% GM's are wrong. Witnessing talent and guessing is two different things.

Who said MJ made great decisions as a GM?

[Heavincent]

Well it was 2006, so Jordan was just stating the obvious.

[Kyle_korver]

Scottie Pippen also said Melo was better than Dirk last season..

Just because they are great doesn't make them right. They are human.. they see elements of theirself in some way in certain players and it makes them biased.
wowwww the craziest thing in this thread to me... didnt dirk get mvp in 2006.. pippen opinion has dropped very low to me now

[DuMa]

source coming from a laker forum. yeah this is absolutely a great source!

[jstern]

This thread is old. And of course Jordan sees so much of himself in Kobe, Kobe has tried to emulate even his personality.

[Nick Young]

The GOAT debate is over. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[HurricaneKid]

The GOAT debate is over. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

The quote was from 2006.

[Vertical-24]

This thread is old. And of course Jordan sees so much of himself in Kobe, Kobe has tried to emulate even his personality.

This is when hate goes too far :rolleyes:

[KG215]

The quote was from 2006.

Now don't ruin his fun. Not to mention Jordan isn't saying Kobe is the GOAT. He said Kobe was the best player in the world in 2006. Don't now many who would've disagreed, either.

[riseagainst]

This thread is old. And of course Jordan sees so much of himself in Kobe, Kobe has tried to emulate even his personality.

you have a lot of problems in your life.

[Smoke117]

I would say within a couple of years Jordan saw more of himself in Wade than Kobe. Dwyane Wade was the player who's game most resembled a jordan in his prime. Kobe has always resembled more of a 2nd threepeat Jordan because of his love of that jump shot, but Wade resembled the younger prime in his 20s Jordan more so.

[lebeast666]

Scoot over Kobe, LeGOAT is in the building

[pauk]

i would love to hear jordan answer the question: "why???!"

even kobe would laugh to tears if he saw this, its that obvious he is nowhere near to being the best

[amfirst]

2006 was when Kobe was in his prime.

[KG215]

i would love to hear jordan answer the question: "why???!"

even kobe would laugh to tears if he saw this, its that obvious he is nowhere near to being the best

I guess you missed the part where Jordan said this in 2006, not 2012.

[AlphaWolf24]

I would say within a couple of years Jordan saw more of himself in Wade than Kobe. Dwyane Wade was the player who's game most resembled a jordan in his prime. Kobe has always resembled more of a 2nd threepeat Jordan because of his love of that jump shot, but Wade resembled the younger prime in his 20s Jordan more so.


nope he clearly is a Kobe stan...he clearly says Kobe...

he clearly said Kobe is the only one who should be mentioned as a comparison to him...

Wade isn't even in the same arena as Kobe and MJ.




Wade looks nothing like young MJ either





next

[Dwyane Rose]

Isn't Jordan also the guy that drafted Kwame Brown?

[TheeBeast]

Isn't Jordan also the guy that drafted Kwame Brown?

And Adam Morrison :oldlol:

[Hands of Iron]

Well it was 2006, so Jordan was just stating the obvious.

Time flies.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I wonder how much MJ gets paid per Kobe is the best remark.

[DixieNourmous]

Where are the haters? I'd love to see them flip this.


Unflippable :lol

[KG215]

Unflippable :lol

It was said in 2006. I mean Jordan didn't say this two days ago, so don't think this means he thinks Kobe is the unquestionable best player in the world SIX years later.