LeBron James is easily the best player in the NBA

[PleezeBelieve]

LeBron's top-4 PER of ALLTIME last year WAS/IS validation of the thread title. And not only that, it was a prelude to LeBron's astounding '08-09 playoff domination.

LeBron's '08-09 PER: 31.67

LeBron's '08-09 playoff stats: 35.3 ppg 9.1 rpg 7.3 apg 51%


These numbers cannot be doubted and is PROOF-POSITIVE LeBron season last year was the greatest individual season of ALLTIME, arguably.

Bottomline: PER is the most accurate and best way to determine player rankings in the history of mankind. Look at the top-10 PER list and see how those player's regular season translated into even more domination in the playoffs.

[KoolKat]

Of all time ? Yeah...

[PleezeBelieve]

Of all time ? Yeah...
Top-4 PER EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

This cannot be argued.

[plowking]

13 year old going with the 13 year old way of logic.

[PleezeBelieve]

13 year old going with the 13 year old way of logic.
Post counter evidence or keep your juvenile vitriol to yourself.

[HylianNightmare]

http://www.7milesdown.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe4rings.jpg

http://tunyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_his_4th_ring.jpg

http://my.nba.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/580003047-570008121-570125467-570011593/(mjjjs.jpg

[Dizzle-2k7]

Wade and Kobe both have good arguments.. but I see what youre saying Jash

[PleezeBelieve]

http://www.7milesdown.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe4rings.jpg

http://tunyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kobe_his_4th_ring.jpg

http://my.nba.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/580003047-570008121-570125467-570011593/(mjjjs.jpg
What's that mean? Four counts a rape and sexual imposition he was charged for, eh? :confusedshrug:

[HylianNightmare]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Kobe%20Bryant/VS/Lebron%20James/KOBE-LBJ5_kbrainbow.gif

[KoolKat]

Top-4 PER EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

This cannot be argued.

1. you want to argue about PER, you said it was top 4 meaning there were better seasons.

2. Failing to win the title despite having the best record is a negative in his season.

Seriously, in 60+ seasons of NBA basketball, you think this is the best season ever ?

[HylianNightmare]

What's that mean? Four counts a rape and sexual imposition he was charged for, eh? :confusedshrug:

:roll:
the 4 more rings silly

[PleezeBelieve]

1. you want to argue about PER, you said it was top 4 meaning there were better seasons.

2. Failing to win the title despite having the best record is a negative in his season.

Seriously, in 60+ seasons of NBA basketball, you think this is the best season ever ?
FAIL!!

You're a clown. lol.

[KoolKat]

Yeah, failing to win a title by losing against an 'inferior' team isn't gonna diminish his season.

[Toizumi]

Yeah, failing to win a title by losing against an 'inferior' team isn't gonna diminish his season.

You dont get it do you? This game isnt about winning... It's about PER and MVP titles and stats!! right PB? :violin:

[AJ2k8]

but he's such a cornball:rolleyes:

[G-train]

I don't think anyone really doubts that Lebron produced some of the best numbers ever - but does that equal the best player in that season?
Usually. But Kobe, Wade and Paul also had excellent seasons.

[josh99]

PER is terrible. Look at last year's list of the top 50 player PERs. (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics) Devin Harris and Danny Granger>Kevin Garnett? Al Jefferson>Yao Ming? Tony Parker is the 8th best player in the NBA? Carmelo Anthony at 33 while Zach Randolph is at 25? Like I said PER is terrible.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Lebron is great and he has a great argument for best player in the NBA, but here players with peaks better than James.

Shaq- 2000
Michael Jordan- 1990
Wilt Chamberlain- 1967
Kareem Abdul Jabbar- 1971
Larry Bird- 1986
Hakeem Olajuwon- 1995
Tim Duncan- 2003
Magic Johnson- 1987

Some more players with peaks that are arguably better.

Kevin Garnett- 2004
Moses Malone- 1983
Kobe Bryant- 2003
David Robinson- 1995
Bill Russell- 1962
Oscar Robertson- 1964
Jerry West- 1965
Elgin Baylor- 1963
Charles Barkley- 1993

[lpublic_enemyl]

lebron james and his team failed to show up in the playoffs conference finals after a 66 wins season that's almost as bad as the mavericks... hehe almost

[Lebron23]

lebron james and his team failed to show up in the playoffs conference finals after a 66 wins season that's almost as bad as the mavericks... hehe almost


But he averaged 39 ppg, 8 rpg, and 8 apg in the Eastern Conference Finals.

What was Dirk stats againts the powerhouse Golden State Warriors?

[ukballer]

What? None of the OTC crew have seen the fraud make a new thread? C'mon guys, there's more exposing/destroying to do!

[QuebecBaller]

You dont get it do you? This game isnt about winning... It's about PER and MVP titles and stats!! right PB? :violin:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[PleezeBelieve]

What? None of the OTC crew have seen the fraud make a new thread? C'mon guys, there's more exposing/destroying to do!
PleezeBelieve > the entire OTC board

[mamba24]

PleezeBelieve > the entire OTC board

Well im not gonna argue cause its like trying to explain algebra to a 5 year old...they just dont get it...

but lets roll with this...YES lebron is the best...he has been since 2003...and he has yet to win a title...with the improved squad he has now...he should win the title...over Celtics, Lakers, Orlando and Spurs...im gonna say wizards too cause i have a feeling they will show up.

If lebron does not win a ring is he still the best?
Is a player considered the best of all time with no rings or accomplishments that would credit his team?

MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Timmy, Shaq these are guys who to me are reputed champions...no questions asked been there done that.

Even D-wade is one up on Lebron. And guess what...the heat may suck this year but can you imagine what they could be like next year going forward or midseason with the expiring contracts they have?

Amare, Bosh, Boozer just to name a few all stars that could be paired with wade.

Lebron's gotta win this year....or join another team...the cavs will have 28 mill locked up next year..thats without shaq, Big Z and Lebron....add Lebron for 17 mill and thats 45 mill committed = no more big signings and hope shaq signs for 5 mill or someone gets traded for mid season.

The heat got only 17 mill on their roster for next year and that is wade...so um year i can see what pat riley is thinking...Long term.

[oh the horror]

PleezeBelieve > the entire OTC board



Someone put this kid on suicide watch, hurry.

[ukballer]

PleezeBelieve > the entire OTC board
http://rlv.zcache.com/you_win_one_internet_seal_sticker-p217012270434628344tdcj_152.jpg

[kap]

...LeBron season last year was the greatest individual season of ALLTIME...


I thought Beyonce was the greatest of all time

[Thom.Yorke]

it just came at the expense of not going to the finals.


titles>per, mvps,

[RaininTwos]

it just came at the expense of not going to the finals.


titles>per, mvps,
Please. Lebron and Wade are better than Kobe. Can we please stop with this titles nonsense? To win a title, you have to have a GREAT TEAM.

[CasterL]

PER is only good for compairing players who play the same position!!!! and even then it has its flaws. the formula skews certain impacts and doesnt take others into account at all.

[gxL]

Please. Lebron and Wade are better than Kobe. Can we please stop with this titles nonsense? To win a title, you have to have a GREAT TEAM.
idiot

[Twiens]

Chokers can't be #1, sorry.

1.Kobe
2.Wade
3.Lebron
4.Dwight
5.CP3 (tempted to drop him after that brutal 1st round)

[RaininTwos]

idiot :roll:Okay. That's cool. I am sure an idiot for thinking that. The last time Wade had a great team and his health, he was holding up the Finals MVP trophy. But NOOOOO, I am such an idiot.

[YAWN]

is this guy that 13 year old indian boy you guys keep posting pictures of in the OTC?

[All Net]

Please. Lebron and Wade are better than Kobe. Can we please stop with this titles nonsense? To win a title, you have to have a GREAT TEAM.

Lebron's team won 66 games stop acting like he is playing on a 40-45 win team. The team is built around him but you can't keep using the same excuse when Lebron's team were favoured by everybody to beat Orlando and get to the finals. Titles play a big factor. The fact Lebron has made the finals just once is not good when comparing him with other top players...he is still young which is why he needs to make a move now and get to the finals at least.

[RaininTwos]

Lebron's team won 66 games stop acting like he is playing on a 40-45 win team. The team is built around him but you can't keep using the same excuse when Lebron's team were favoured by everybody to beat Orlando and get to the finals. Titles play a big factor. The fact Lebron has made the finals just once is not good when comparing him with other top players...he is still young which is why he needs to make a move now and get to the finals at least.
:roll: So titles are big factor when its convenient to your argument. Okay. Gotcha.

[highwhey]

real life results>>>mathematical formula/equation

astrobiologists claimed to have an equation proving life on other planets(different from drake's). now, does this actually prove it? PER=Life on other planets, both theoritical and unproven.

[All Net]

:roll: So titles are big factor when its convenient to your argument. Okay. Gotcha.

Love how you avoided my whole point

Title play a factor as they should, when a player leads their team to the title while putting up great numbers they deserve to be praised and considered to be one of the best. If you put up great stats and continue to not even make the finals then you deserve the flack...until Lebron beats the teams his team are suppose to be beat why should everybody think he is the best like there is no doubt? great stats are great and all but you need both stats and success....

[Extempo]

What the **** is PER? I've been watching basketball for a long time and I've never seen anyone use "PER" as an argument for the best player in the NBA.

[Twiens]

What the **** is PER? I've been watching basketball for a long time and I've never seen anyone use "PER" as an argument for the best player in the NBA.

You must be new to ISH :oldlol:

[All Net]

What the **** is PER? I've been watching basketball for a long time and I've never seen anyone use "PER" as an argument for the best player in the NBA.

It's a garbage stat. Go to ESPN you will find out more there.

[Extempo]

You must be new to ISH :oldlol:
I'm new to the internet actually :oldlol:

It's a garbage stat. Go to ESPN you will find out more there.
Thanks, I'll do that.

[RaininTwos]

Love how you avoided my whole point

Title play a factor as they should, when a player leads their team to the title while putting up great numbers they deserve to be praised and considered to be one of the best. If you put up great stats and continue to not even make the finals then you deserve the flack...until Lebron beats the teams his team are suppose to be beat why should everybody think he is the best like there is no doubt? great stats are great and all but you need both stats and success....
Lebron ALREADY MADE THE FINALS!! Jesus christ give the man credit, you act like he could have done anything else to prevent from being eliminated. What would have Kobe done different? Averaged 50 to beat the Magic? The only reason the Cavs were favored was because of how much ESPN overrated them. I picked the Magic to win the series before it even started because I knew that Cleveland couldnt guard Dwight Howard. I dont see how you are honestly going to say that Kobe is better than Lebron. I dont see it, and if he is, when is Lebron going to pass him? And how about Wade? He already won a championship, played like a beast all year long, what does he have to do to surpass Kobe? I just want to know what makes Kobe so great that people such as Wade and Lebron could be playing in their PRIME, having some of the best seasons in THIS DECADE and still not one of them can be the best in the game? Doesnt make sense to me at all. So go ahead, educate on how Kobe is a better player than Wade and Lebron. The floor is yours.

[DukeDelonte13]

Lebron >Wade (but very close) > Kobe

If we are talking Best in NBA RIGHT NOW thats it. If we are talking careers thats a different story.

[RaininTwos]

Lebron >Wade (but very close) > Kobe

If we are talking Best in NBA RIGHT NOW thats it. If we are talking careers thats a different story.
That's what I am trying to say, but apparently, when you win a title that's all that matters.

[lefthook00]

The main difference that makes Kobe better than Wade and LeBron is SCREENS!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's always a pick at the top of the key, pick pick pick pick. Kobe uses them maybe 20% the amount the other two do, he just iso's and styles on you, thats why he is more fun to watch.

[All Net]

Lebron ALREADY MADE THE FINALS!! Jesus christ give the man credit, you act like he could have done anything else to prevent from being eliminated. What would have Kobe done different? Averaged 50 to beat the Magic? The only reason the Cavs were favored was because of how much ESPN overrated them. I picked the Magic to win the series before it even started because I knew that Cleveland couldnt guard Dwight Howard. I dont see how you are honestly going to say that Kobe is better than Lebron. I dont see it, and if he is, when is Lebron going to pass him? And how about Wade? He already won a championship, played like a beast all year long, what does he have to do to surpass Kobe? I just want to know what makes Kobe so great that people such as Wade and Lebron could be playing in their PRIME, having some of the best seasons in THIS DECADE and still not one of them can be the best in the game? Doesnt make sense to me at all. So go ahead, educate on how Kobe is a better player than Wade and Lebron. The floor is yours.

I have no problems people saying Lebron and Wade are better than Kobe. My point was I don't like how Lebron has a feel pass just because of his amazing stats....it wasn't just the experts who picked Cleveland to win that series, 90% of people around the country did....you don't win 66 games and expect to lose when you have homecourt and the supposed best player in the game. Lebron had a great series but also made some bonehead plays at the end of the close games. Thats what it came down to, the close games they let slip. Credit to Lebron for that game winner in game 2....he showed his greatness there. Not for a second should Lebron get the complete blame...guys like Mo Williams are who sucked badly.

What annoys me is the fact people seem to think there is no question that Lebron is the best, It's fine saying he is but Kobe and Wade are all very equal to him and all you could make a case for being the best.

Kobe averaged 32, 6 and 7 in the finals in winning finals MVP...he could average 30, 7 and 5 for the regular season too which would be basically on par with what Lebron and Wade average but due to having other scorers like Gasol, Odom, Bynum and now Artest he will never need to do that all the time.

Thats where the different arguements come in about supporting cast. It works both ways. Lebron needed a better supporting cast as he was putting up more stats than he should due to the lack of support where Kobe's stats will never be as great due to the supporting cast he has.

Lebron now has a far better supporting cast than he did last year so there is no reason why he can't at least make the finals with this cast...I think he needs to really to prove a point.

[All Net]

That's what I am trying to say, but apparently, when you win a title that's all that matters.

Of course thats not what only matters but you need some kind of success to prove you are better than other top players.

[RaininTwos]

The main difference that makes Kobe better than Wade and LeBron is SCREENS!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's always a pick at the top of the key, pick pick pick pick. Kobe uses them maybe 20% the amount the other two do, he just iso's and styles on you, thats why he is more fun to watch.
Kobe is great, I just thought that last year, two players were better.

[Twiens]

IF Lakers win another title and the Cavs choke again.....

Would that put Kobe back at #1 in everyone's mind?

[All Net]

IF Lakers win another title and the Cavs choke again.....

Would that put Kobe back at #1 in everyone's mind?

Well it would certainly put doubt in people's mind that Lebron is a winner. Great stats but can't win the big one.

[miller-time]

Of course thats not what only matters but you need some kind of success to prove you are better than other top players.

in a team sport? this isn't the 100m or singles tennis.

last season lakers > cavs

swap kobe and lebron.

do cavs win it all or do lakers?

i'd take lebron lakers everyday of the week over kobe cavs.

[lefthook00]

Kobe is great, I just thought that last year, two players were better.

Fosho, many share your opinion. I was just talking about style of play mostly.

[mongePR(kb24)]

lebron = best

kobe = greatest

[tedloc]

lebron is not the best player in the nba.

[clayton]

Kobe in finals = win.
Wade in finals = win.
Lebron in finals = swept.

[KB2009Champ]

Easily the best?

Really?

Its one thing if you think he's the best - we all have opinions etc- but easily?

Because of some stat some geek over at ESPN made up.

Like someone else posted, the fact that freakin Zach Randolph had a better PER than Carmelo last season speaks volumes. That stat might have its strong points but its got its issues as well.

[PleezeBelieve]

Easily the best?

Really?

Its one thing if you think he's the best - we all have opinions etc- but easily?

Because of some stat some geek over at ESPN made up.

Like someone else posted, the fact that freakin Zach Randolph had a better PER than Carmelo last season speaks volumes. That stat might have its strong points but its got its issues as well.
Look at your name, son. Go off yaself.

So this is what ISH has blossomed to?? Mofo's coppin 'KBOHYOUSOGOOD' screen names and expect to be taken seriously.

LeBron is easily the best player in the league cause he plays at a higher level than anyone else which PER does the best of illustrating this.

:roll: @ you clowns thinking PER makes the player and not the player making PER.

[JtotheIzzo]

Jash Shah

[All Net]

LeBron is easily the best player in the league cause he plays at a higher level than anyone else which PER does the best of illustrating this.

:roll: :roll:

[KB2009Champ]

Look at your name, son. Go off yaself.

So this is what ISH has blossomed to?? Mofo's coppin 'KBOHYOUSOGOOD' screen names and expect to be taken seriously.

LeBron is easily the best player in the league cause he plays at a higher level than anyone else which PER does the best of illustrating this.

:roll: @ you clowns thinking PER makes the player and not the player making PER.

Look in the mirror kid. You are infamously known by everyone on this site (including those of us who who have only been posting here for a little while)as the biggest d*ck riding ball slurper on this site so go grab a kiddie seat and park yourself in the corner. While you're at it touch yourself while you imagine that LeBron is your best friend. Loser.

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade is the best player in the NBA.

Wade in the NBA finals: led an underdog team to rally from the brink of going down 3-0 to win four straight and the championship

Lebron in the NBA finals: got swept after one of the biggest chokejobs in finals history by a superstar.

Also...

The list of NBA teams with 65+ wins

96' Chicago Bulls 72 wins, NBA champions
97' Chicago Bulls 69, NBA champions
72' L.A. Lakers 69, NBA champions
73' Celtics 68, lost in the ECF
92' Bulls 67, NBA champions
67' Sixers 67, NBA champions
86' Celtics 67, NBA champions
00' Lakers 67, NBA champions
07' Mavericks 67, lost in the first round
71' Bucks 66, NBA champions
08' Celtics 66, NBA champions
09' Cavs 66, lost in the ECF
83' Sixers 65, NBA champions
87' Lakers 65, NBA champions
09' Lakers 65, NBA champions

Lebron joined Dirk and Dave Cowens as the only superstars to lose while playing on a 65+ win team. Since Cowens won two championships, Lebron and Dirk are the only superstars to ever play on a 65+ win team and be ringless.

Wade has delivered, Lebron hasn't. Wade is the better player but more importantly he is a champion and thus far Lebron choked in one finals and then could not get it done with a 66 win team. He now has a top 3 all-star center in Shaq to go with all-star Mo Williams and has the best or the second best backup center in the NBA. Let's see if he can get it down with this team...

[catch24]

Wade is the best player in the NBA.

Wade in the NBA finals: led an underdog team to rally from the brink of going down 3-0 to win four straight and the championship

Lebron in the NBA finals: got swept after one of the biggest chokejobs in finals history by a superstar.

Also...

The list of NBA teams with 65+ wins

96' Chicago Bulls 72 wins, NBA champions
97' Chicago Bulls 69, NBA champions
72' L.A. Lakers 69, NBA champions
73' Celtics 68, lost in the ECF
92' Bulls 67, NBA champions
67' Sixers 67, NBA champions
86' Celtics 67, NBA champions
00' Lakers 67, NBA champions
07' Mavericks 67, lost in the first round
71' Bucks 66, NBA champions
08' Celtics 66, NBA champions
09' Cavs 66, lost in the ECF
83' Sixers 65, NBA champions
87' Lakers 65, NBA champions
09' Lakers 65, NBA champions

Lebron joined Dirk and Dave Cowens as the only superstars to lose while playing on a 65+ win team. Since Cowens won two championships, Lebron and Dirk are the only superstars to ever play on a 65+ win team and be ringless.

Wade has delivered, Lebron hasn't. Wade is the better player but more importantly he is a champion and thus far Lebron choked in one finals and then could not get it done with a 66 win team. He now has a top 3 all-star center in Shaq to go with all-star Mo Williams and has the best or the second best backup center in the NBA. Let's see if he can get it down with this team...

Where is Kobe ranked on your prestigious list?

[Yung D-Will]

Kobe>Lebron

[T-Low]

Kobe's cast was a lot more impressive than LeBrons to be honest...

[Micku]

LeBron is good. He do have a case for being the best player. But you shouldn't actually use PER as a ends to a discussion. Otherwise we would say Duncan or Hakeem aren't better than David Robinson. Kobe being a better playoff performer than Bird, CP3 08-09 had better season or was a better player than Magic or Stockton, and LeBron James 08-09 had a better season than most of Michael Jordan seasons.

LeBron James is great in the playoffs though and had a good run and pull up great stats. But it is foolish to judge a player with stats alone because basketball is a team game. What a player can do to help the team and how the team plays, including it's pace, is something that cannot be analyze by paper. You would have to watch the game.

With that said, yeah, LeBron seemed unstoppable in the playoffs. But that doesn't win you games sometimes.

[Pharcyde]

Accolades don't matter for a guy just entering his prime.

[hito da god]

playoff domination? ha!

[artificial]

I have to give this kid his credit: every thread he creates ends up with 4+ pages.

No wonder Steve (or whoever bans people) has a man crush on the kid. Replying (including me) just feeds him.

[lilgodfather1]

I would hardly say easily the best. Mr Wade certainly has a great case himself, and Kobe could make a case if you cared purely about scoring.

The difference between these three players is that only two of them actually make their teammates better players, and we can all pretty much agree that last years Cavs team without james would have been a lottery team instead of the first seed. Same can be said of Wade but Kobes team would have won 50 + games without him.

[All Net]

I would hardly say easily the best. Mr Wade certainly has a great case himself, and Kobe could make a case if you cared purely about scoring.

The difference between these three players is that only two of them actually make their teammates better players, and we can all pretty much agree that last years Cavs team without james would have been a lottery team instead of the first seed. Same can be said of Wade but Kobes team would have won 50 + games without him.

You saying Kobe is PURELY scorer?

Only way last years Lakers would of won 50+ without Kobe is if Bynum was healthy and playing well...

[PleezeBelieve]

I have to give this kid his credit: every thread he creates ends up with 4+ pages.

No wonder Steve (or whoever bans people) has a man crush on the kid. Replying (including me) just feeds him.
I am a Legend. You are not.

Fair breakdown there.

[Meticode]

I am a Legend. You are not.

Fair breakdown there.

Jack the Ripper is a legend too, but it's not necessarily a good thing for him you know? Same goes for you kiddo.

Also, my wife. That's it. Adios.

[PleezeBelieve]

lol @ you losers calling me a kid like that's going to change how I continue to be a just an overall better poster than you. I will continue to bring pizazz and excitability to this board. Offer fresh takes that spawn scintillating conversation.

A b*tch-ass smear campaign will not change this.

[Meticode]

lol @ you losers calling me a kid like that's going to change how I continue to be a just an overall better poster than you. I will continue to bring pizazz and excitability to this board. Offer fresh takes that spawn scintillating conversation.

A b*tch-ass smear campaign will not change this.

You're honestly one of the worst posters on the board.

Why do I know this? Because I am myself, and you're in the gutter like I am you sly dog you. Takes one to know how fellow horrible poster. Give me a hug!

[Bigsmoke]

the best player right now is Lebron but Kobe is higher on my list as one of the greatest of all times

[ukballer]

lol @ you losers calling me a kid like that's going to change how I continue to be a just an overall better poster than you. I will continue to bring pizazz and excitability to this board. Offer fresh takes that spawn scintillating conversation.

A b*tch-ass smear campaign will not change this.

Meticode's wife >>> you.

Now...

[PleezeBelieve]

You're honestly one of the worst posters on the board.

Why do I know this? Because I am myself, and you're in the gutter like I am you sly dog you. Takes one to know how fellow horrible poster. Give me a hug!
Only if you bring your wife. I'm sure she'd love it. :applause:

[Meticode]

Only if you bring your wife. I'm sure she'd love it. :applause:

Sorry, statutory rape isn't her type of thing.

[PleezeBelieve]

the best player right now is Lebron but Kobe is higher on my list as one of the greatest of all times
I believe this is arguable. LeBron's stats exceed Kobe by such a wide disparity, you have to account for that.

You just have to.

[Meticode]

Meticode's wife >>> you.

Now...

This is personally what I thinking myself. I mention my wife, just "my wife" and the whole thread no matter what the hell it's about gets turned in a different direction every so slightly. She's a bigger celebrity than me and doesn't even post. Well, at least anymore that is.

[PleezeBelieve]

Sorry, statutory rape isn't her type of thing.
You said she posts on ISH, right??? I'm sure when you go to bed, she sneaks to the computer, reads all my posts and returns to the sack, unnoticed.

I'm sure I'm one of her favorites.

[Meticode]

You said she posts on ISH, right??? I'm sure when you go to bed, she sneaks to the computer, reads all my posts and returns to the sack, unnoticed.

I'm sure I'm one of her favorites.

She used to post. She hasn't posted for over a year because her post count still remains the same months later. Even now I just check it, it's the same it was around 6+ months ago.

You probably are one of her favorites though. She feels sorry for those crack-babies usually.

[PleezeBelieve]

She used to post. She hasn't posted for over a year because her post count still remains the same months later. Even now I just check it, it's the same it was around 6+ months ago.

You probably are one of her favorites though. She feels sorry for those crack-babies usually.
Maybe I'll meet you all at a Cavs game. I wouldn't mind seeing your wife in person just to see if she gives me a sneak-glance. You know?? Nothing bad...just something to let me know she's a fan of my work and appreciates my physical appearance.

[lilgodfather1]

I believe this is arguable. LeBron's stats exceed Kobe by such a wide disparity, you have to account for that.

You just have to.
Calm down with this. There is no way that anyone has LeBron James higher at this point in his career than Kobe on the AT list. LeBron may be better now than Kobe ever was, but he isn't greater, even if you discount all of Kobes rings because of shaq, save one then Kobe is still an unbelieveably accomplished player. Some things that you can't do in 6 years.

[Meticode]

Maybe I'll meet you all at a Cavs game. I wouldn't mind seeing your wife in person just to see if she gives me a sneak-glance. You know?? Nothing bad...just something to let me know she's a fan of my work and appreciates my physical appearance.

I don't live in Ohio nor near it really.

[catch24]

Maybe I'll meet you all at a Cavs game. I wouldn't mind seeing your wife in person just to see if she gives me a sneak-glance. You know?? Nothing bad...just something to let me know she's a fan of my work and appreciates my physical appearance.

I don't think you've had sex-ed yet...pipe down.

[branslowski]

I dont know why ppl keep underrating the GOAT PER formula...When we are with our friends or in the Barbra shop debating about players, we always whip out the per stats...F*ck outta here, this game isn't about winning at all, it's about the Per stat baby...If Jordan never one a title in his life, he still would be the GOAT because of his GOAT PER, so KAJ or Bird, or Wilt would not have a case to be greater than Jordan.

Positive things learned in this thread....

Per>>Life
Per>>Titles
Per>>Pusse

Banned multiple times means you are a great poster....

:cheers:

[RaininTwos]

Maybe I'll meet you all at a Cavs game. I wouldn't mind seeing your wife in person just to see if she gives me a sneak-glance. You know?? Nothing bad...just something to let me know she's a fan of my work and appreciates my physical appearance.
Sneak-glance? The only sneaky she did to me was her hand going stealth mode and ending up on my disco stick. Had me screaming I love the 70's all night.

[HighFlyer23]

This is personally what I thinking myself. I mention my wife, just "my wife" and the whole thread no matter what the hell it's about gets turned in a different direction every so slightly. She's a bigger celebrity than me and doesn't even post. Well, at least anymore that is.

meticodes wife > meticode? :confusedshrug:

[Micku]

I believe this is arguable. LeBron's stats exceed Kobe by such a wide disparity, you have to account for that.

You just have to.

Robinson and Barkley have better stats than Duncan, but I consider Duncan better.

But give LeBron James a few more years to extend his career. The way he is going, he will probably surpass Kobe with his career.



If Jordan never one a title in his life, he still would be the GOAT because of his GOAT PER, so KAJ or Bird, or Wilt would not have a case to be greater than Jordan.

I don't think it would be because of PER. It would be because of his skills, competitive nature, scoring ability, and defensive. Jordan even said that in the 80s, despite his stats, people didn't see him better than Bird or Magic. This made him want to try harder.

Same thing goes with a whole bunch of players. Hakeem is better than Robinson even though Robinson has better stats. Magic is consider one of GOAT players, even though is PER isn't as high as other players.

You can't judge things on paper entirely. There are other factors like the fundamental aspect of basketball and team work chemistry, defensive, leadership, impact on the floor, finesse of plays, being able take advantage of a weakness or a strength with yourself or the other team, and being ability to execute and listen to the coach. These things cannot be written down. It's better to watch the game and judge than looking a sheet of paper that is deceiving.

[plowking]

PER has destroyed basketball...

None of the NBA reporters know how to use it, and neither does John Hollinger. It's like orthodox microeconomic theory where physical and human capital is attempted to be thrown in the same basket. It's really not applicable to the NBA world.

[FinalCountdown]

PER has destroyed basketball...

None of the NBA reporters know how to use it, and neither does John Hollinger. It's like orthodox microeconomic theory where physical and human capital is attempted to be thrown in the same basket. It's really not applicable to the NBA world.
LeBron > your favorite player.

[Maga_1]

Dwyane Wade is easily the best player in NBA.

[plowking]

LeBron > your favorite player.

Really? You think he's better than Beasley? :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[CB4GOATPF]

Robinson and Barkley have better stats than Duncan, but I consider Duncan better.

[B]:no:


Raw Stats are one thing but

PER (Efficiency per Minute), EFF (Overall Skill Efficienc = Making Others Better) and Statistical +/- (Impact) is what tells you the truth of Efficiency Total, Efficiency Per Minute and Impact Of a Player

[COLOR="DarkRed"][U]There is a Reason why GOAT MJ is N

[Meticode]

meticodes wife > meticode? :confusedshrug:

That is correct!

[Raider007]

I think the best player in the NBA is the one that accomplishes the goal of leading his team to Winning the Championship

Second place is just first looser and how can you be the best if you lost.
Second place or worse means you were unable to accomplish the objective.
This year its Kobe, and whoever leads his team to the Championship next year will be considered "BEST.*********:rockon:

These threads get so complicated and personal. This one is easy
Best=Best

[CB4GOATPF]

I think the best player in the NBA is the one that accomplishes the goal of leading his team to Winning the Championship

Second place is just first looser and how can you be the best if you lost.
Second place or worse means you were unable to accomplish the objective.
This year its Kobe, and whoever leads his team to the Championship next year will be considered "BEST.*********:rockon:

These threads get so complicated and personal. This one is easy
Best=Best

:roll: :hammerhead: :banghead: i think you just can`t stand the fact that the Best is Lebron.

[Raider007]

:roll: :hammerhead: :banghead: i think you just can`t stand the fact that the Best is Lebron.
If he leads the Cav`s to the Championship next year ill say "he is the best".
Until then, he isn`t. (IMO)
I explained myself in the last post, read it again so your next reply wont look so stupid.:roll:

[vert48]

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/gold_leader64/pbshop.jpg

[RaininTwos]

If he leads the Cav`s to the Championship next year ill say "he is the best".
Until then, he isn`t. (IMO)
I explained myself in the last post, read it again so your next reply wont look so stupid.:roll:
Your reasoning doesnt make any sense. Great Teams win championships. Not just a great player. If that was the case, I guess Barry Sanders wouldnt be better than Emmitt Smith?

[Roundball_Rock]

Your reasoning doesnt make any sense. Great Teams win championships. Not just a great player. If that was the case, I guess Barry Sanders wouldnt be better than Emmitt Smith?

Lebron played on a 66 win team (equivalent to Barry Sanders playing on a 14 win team). Look at the record for 65+ win teams.

The list of NBA teams with 65+ wins

96' Chicago Bulls 72 wins, NBA champions
97' Chicago Bulls 69, NBA champions
72' L.A. Lakers 69, NBA champions
73' Celtics 68, lost in the ECF
92' Bulls 67, NBA champions
67' Sixers 67, NBA champions
86' Celtics 67, NBA champions
00' Lakers 67, NBA champions
07' Mavericks 67, lost in the first round
71' Bucks 66, NBA champions
08' Celtics 66, NBA champions
09' Cavs 66, lost in the ECF
83' Sixers 65, NBA champions
87' Lakers 65, NBA champions
09' Lakers 65, NBA champions

Lebron joined Dirk and Dave Cowens as the only superstars to lose while playing on a 65+ win team. Since Cowens won two championships, Lebron and Dirk are the only superstars to ever play on a 65+ win team and be ringless.

[TheAnchorman]

Lebron > Kobe, championships in this forum are grossly overused in determining who the best player is.

[Raider007]

Your reasoning doesnt make any sense. Great Teams win championships. Not just a great player. If that was the case, I guess Barry Sanders wouldnt be better than Emmitt Smith?
I explained it, you can`t understand.
Put down the meth pipe and read my original post slowly.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :roll:

[RaininTwos]

I explained it, you can`t understand.
Put down the meth pipe and read my original post slowly.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :roll:
The only thing I understand is that apparently, cordial behavior is lacking on this forum. Keep banging your head, just because you explained your method pretty well doesnt mean its easy to understand. Especially when your method doesnt make any sense.

[RaininTwos]

Lebron played on a 66 win team (equivalent to Barry Sanders playing on a 14 win team). Look at the record for 65+ win teams.

The list of NBA teams with 65+ wins

96' Chicago Bulls 72 wins, NBA champions
97' Chicago Bulls 69, NBA champions
72' L.A. Lakers 69, NBA champions
73' Celtics 68, lost in the ECF
92' Bulls 67, NBA champions
67' Sixers 67, NBA champions
86' Celtics 67, NBA champions
00' Lakers 67, NBA champions
07' Mavericks 67, lost in the first round
71' Bucks 66, NBA champions
08' Celtics 66, NBA champions
09' Cavs 66, lost in the ECF
83' Sixers 65, NBA champions
87' Lakers 65, NBA champions
09' Lakers 65, NBA champions

Lebron joined Dirk and Dave Cowens as the only superstars to lose while playing on a 65+ win team. Since Cowens won two championships, Lebron and Dirk are the only superstars to ever play on a 65+ win team and be ringless.

Just to get this straight, Lebron isnt a better player than Kobe because his team was the third in NBA history to not win a championship after winning 65 games in the regular season? Does that really make sense to you? We are penalizing the guy, even though it wasnt his fault that they lost in the first place. He did everything he could, displaying greatness and taking the load that his teammates dropped and putting it on his back but you are going to penalize him for that? Wow.

[Raider007]

The only thing I understand is that apparently, cordial behavior is lacking on this forum. Keep banging your head, just because you explained your method pretty well doesnt mean its easy to understand. Especially when your method doesnt make any sense.

What part of > "I think the best player in the NBA is the one that accomplishes the goal of leading his team to Winning the Championship"<
is so hard to understand?

I started it with "I think" this means "in my opinion". You say you cannot understand, thats your problem. Get off the drugs newbie!:banghead:

[Raider007]

Lets say you have 2 armies each led by a general. You send them into a war and tell them to win the war. Each one has different squads and the generals run the show.

One General does well but all are killed.

The other does well and wins the war.

Which is the best General?


I swear to gawd if you say the dead one,,, you have more problems than a blind man in a mine field!

[RaininTwos]

What part of > "I think the best player in the NBA is the one that accomplishes the goal of leading his team to Winning the Championship"<
is so hard to understand?

I started it with "I think" this means "in my opinion". You say you cannot understand, thats your problem. Get off the drugs newbie!:banghead:
:oldlol: I am not a newbie. Answer this question was Chauncy Billups the best player in 2004? Or was Wade the best player in 2006? Was Duncan the best player in 2007? Was one of the big three(KG/Pierce/Ray Allen) the best player in 2008?

[barbaroi]

Just to get this straight, Lebron isnt a better player than Kobe because his team was the third in NBA history to not win a championship after winning 65 games in the regular season? Does that really make sense to you? We are penalizing the guy, even though it wasnt his fault that they lost in the first place. He did everything he could, displaying greatness and taking the load that his teammates dropped and putting it on his back but you are going to penalize him for that? Wow.
Everyone likes to say Lebron's teammates dropped the ball. Mo williams certainly did offensively, but as Cleveland fans have constantly told me their offense was fine. If you look at the numbers the ECF was clearly lost on the Defensive end of the floor.

So who messed up defensively? The big men couldn't contain Dwight Howard, but that's asking a bit much of Z and Andy to slow down the best Center in the league. Who else messed up? In games 3 and 4 with the series still in the balance, Lebron allowed Rafer Alston to put up 18 on 46% and 26 on 59%. So let's not act like Lebron was immaculate in that series. He was great offensively, but there are two sides of the floor. To win 66 games and not make the finals is an undeniable disppointment, a disappointment Lebron should take his share of responsibility for.

[G.O.A.T]

Lebron > Kobe, championships in this forum are grossly overused in determining who the best player is.

Not neaerly as overused as opinions.

[Raider007]

:oldlol: I am not a newbie. Answer this question was Chauncy Billups the best player in 2004? Or was Wade the best player in 2006? Was Duncan the best player in 2007? Was one of the big three(KG/Pierce/Ray Allen) the best player in 2008?
When cornered, deflect the answer with a question?
:confusedshrug:

september 2009 is this month= newbie. am i wrong there too? LMAO

[RaininTwos]

When cornered, deflect the answer with a question?
:confusedshrug:

september 2009 is this month= newbie. am i wrong there too? LMAO
I hope you realize that this isnt my first account. Also, you know that if you do answer my question, your philosophy towards choosing the best player will be destroyed and you dont want to admit defeat.

[G.O.A.T]

I hope you realize that this isnt my first account. Also, you know that if you do answer my question, your philosophy towards choosing the best player will be destroyed and you dont want to admit defeat.

Or your an idiot who doesn't understand the point at all.

It's one those two things though.

[RaininTwos]

Everyone likes to say Lebron's teammates dropped the ball. Mo williams certainly did offensively, but as Cleveland fans have constantly told me their offense was fine. If you look at the numbers the ECF was clearly lost on the Defensive end of the floor.

So who messed up defensively? The big men couldn't contain Dwight Howard, but that's asking a bit much of Z and Andy to slow down the best Center in the league. Who else messed up? In games 3 and 4 with the series still in the balance, Lebron allowed Rafer Alston to put up 18 on 46% and 26 on 59%. So let's not act like Lebron was immaculate in that series. He was great offensively, but there are two sides of the floor. To win 66 games and not make the finals is an undeniable disppointment, a disappointment Lebron should take his share of responsibility for.
I did not say that Lebron was perfect. I just honestly want to know why you would fault a guy because his team didnt win? Yeah, Rafer Alston had 18 and 26 in two games, but Dwight was destroying them limb from limb which really made the Magic's shooting better because they were getting open looks. Is Lebron at fault? Yes. No one is perfect, but Bron came closest. He had a great postseason where he stepped up and made a push. He averaged 35.3 PPG and 7.3 APG and 7.6 RPG in the postseason. Who played better than that?

[RaininTwos]

Or your an idiot who doesn't understand the point at all.

It's one those two things though.
The point is stupid, just because you win a championship you are the best player? That is flawed in so many ways considering this is a TEAM sport. How hard is that to understand? In that case, Bill Russell is the greatest player of all time right? Yeah, its still one of those two things right?

[FinalCountdown]

The point is stupid, just because you win a championship you are the best player? That is flawed in so many ways considering this is a TEAM sport. How hard is that to understand? In that case, Bill Russell is the greatest player of all time right? Yeah, its still one of those two things right?
Russell is the greatest player to ever play, And Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world right now.

[barbaroi]

I did not say that Lebron was perfect. I just honestly want to know why you would fault a guy because his team didnt win? Yeah, Rafer Alston had 18 and 26 in two games, but Dwight was destroying them limb from limb which really made the Magic's shooting better because they were getting open looks. Is Lebron at fault? Yes. No one is perfect, but Bron came closest. He had a great postseason where he stepped up and made a push. He averaged 35.3 PPG and 7.3 APG and 7.6 RPG in the postseason. Who played better than that?
This guy named Kobe Bryant. I hear he led his team to a championship on 30/5/6.

Edit and also: the point of the game is to win. If one player puts up excellent stats but his team loses and the other puts up excellent stats but his team wins, I'll take the winner

[triangleoffense]

everyone is ranked off championships. Why do you think no one takes charles barkley, reggie miller, karl malone seriously?

[FinalCountdown]

everyone is ranked off championships. Why do you think no one takes charles barkley, reggie miller, karl malone seriously?
IF you remember who Godfather was on insidehoops, I think it's rainintwos, no one else is more ignorant than him.

[sbw19]

Overall LeBron is the best regular season AND playoff performer hands down. However, Kobe has two things going for him....consistency and mental toughness, and it showed against Orlando:

FG%
KB: 47.1, 45.5, 44.0, 35.5, 43.5
LB: 66.7, 52.2, 39.3, 44.8, 45.8, 40.0

FT%
KB: 100.0, 80.0, 50.0, 100.0, 100.0
LB: 60.0, 83.3, 75.0, 77.8, 79.0, 63.6

It's also noteworthy that in the two games the Cavs won VS Orlando LeBron attempted the fewest 3pt shots (3 attempts in game 2 and 2 in game 5) and converted FTs at the highest rate (83.3% in game 2, 79.0% in game 5). Meaning his inconsistency at the FT line and lack of midrange/post game actually hurt his team.

In the playoffs, when teams design their defensive schemes to take away your best shot, Kobe is much, MUCH more difficult to contain because of his complete offensive game and superior FT shooting. LeBron, as good as he is right now, still has a lot to learn in order to be as dangerous and unstoppable as a more seasoned/skilled Kobe Bryant.

Until LeBron shows me he has that kind of adaptability and resilience, give me #24.

[Simple Jack]

Everyone likes to say Lebron's teammates dropped the ball. Mo williams certainly did offensively, but as Cleveland fans have constantly told me their offense was fine. If you look at the numbers the ECF was clearly lost on the Defensive end of the floor.

So who messed up defensively? The big men couldn't contain Dwight Howard, but that's asking a bit much of Z and Andy to slow down the best Center in the league. Who else messed up? In games 3 and 4 with the series still in the balance, Lebron allowed Rafer Alston to put up 18 on 46% and 26 on 59%. So let's not act like Lebron was immaculate in that series. He was great offensively, but there are two sides of the floor. To win 66 games and not make the finals is an undeniable disppointment, a disappointment Lebron should take his share of responsibility for.

Do me a favor and post the shooting percentages of LeBron and then the rest of his team, per game, throughout that series.

[Simple Jack]

Overall LeBron is the best regular season AND playoff performer hands down. However, Kobe has two things going for him....consistency and mental toughness, and it showed against Orlando:

FG%
KB: 47.1, 45.5, 44.0, 35.5, 43.5
LB: 66.7, 52.2, 39.3, 44.8, 45.8, 40.0

FT%
KB: 100.0, 80.0, 50.0, 100.0, 100.0
LB: 60.0, 83.3, 75.0, 77.8, 79.0, 63.6

It's also noteworthy that in the two games the Cavs won VS Orlando LeBron attempted the fewest 3pt shots (3 attempts in game 2 and 2 in game 5) and converted FTs at the highest rate (83.3% in game 2, 79.0% in game 5). Meaning his inconsistency at the FT line and lack of midrange/post game actually hurt his team.

In the playoffs, when teams design their defensive schemes to take away your best shot, Kobe is much, MUCH more difficult to contain because of his complete offensive game and superior FT shooting. LeBron, as good as he is right now, still has a lot to learn in order to be as dangerous and unstoppable as a more seasoned/skilled Kobe Bryant.

Until LeBron shows me he has that kind of adaptability and resilience, give me #24.


Do you realize how big of an aspect rebounding/defense/passing the ball is? Kobe may be more versatile on offense, in terms of more weapons, not efficiency, but that is only a portion of the game.

[Simple Jack]

Lastly, I also want to point out that anyone arguing Kobe is better because of the success of his team (winning rings), then you are taking the stance that Russel > MJ. Please, I don't think any of you want to go there.

[barbaroi]

Do me a favor and post the shooting percentages of LeBron and then the rest of his team, per game, throughout that series.
What does that have to do with their defense :confusedshrug: ?

[sbw19]

Do you realize how big of an aspect rebounding/defense/passing the ball is? Kobe may be more versatile on offense, in terms of more weapons, not efficiency, but that is only a portion of the game.

Yes I do, however the difference in passing/defense/rebounding combo between the two is less valuable than that of in their ability to get a shot off vs excellent defensive teams, and you need look no further than game 6 of the Cavs/Magic series to see that point.

[Lebron23]

Do me a favor and post the shooting percentages of LeBron and then the rest of his team, per game, throughout that series.


Thanks for owning the newbie.

[lakerfreak]

and Kobe is easily the best player in the world.

[Scribbles]

Let's wait until Lebron becomes a top 30 in NBA before calling him the best player. Lebron's a crap player and always has been.

[ElBronco]

He ain't crap, he's got the potential to be a top ten player all time. He just hasn't tapped into his full abilities, let's hope he does.

[Lebron23]

He ain't crap, he's got the potential to be a top ten player all time. He just hasn't tapped into his full abilities, let's hope he does.


It's time to give him a stronger supporting casts, and a better coaching staff cause LeBron averaged 39 ppg 8 rpg, and 8 apg in the Conference Finals, but the Magic beat the Cavs in 6 games.

Shaq, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, and the current Kobe have a very talented supporting cast.

[lakerfreak]

It's time to give him a stronger supporting casts, and a better coaching staff cause LeBron averaged 39 ppg 8 rpg, and 8 apg in the Conference Finals, but the Magic beat the Cavs in 6 games.

Shaq, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, and the current Kobe have a very talented supporting cast.

And thats what it takes too. Its not a luxury. To win a championship you need what all those guys had. Its in no way Lebron's fault.

[momo]

I'm new to the internet actually :oldlol:

Thanks, I'll do that.

Welcome to the interwebs :D

http://tobi-x.com/c-base/internet-serious-business-cat.jpg

[SpanishACB]

lebron is not only the best basketball player of all time, he's also the best golfer of all time and the best footballer of all time, he just chooses not to show it.

he also once went to a burger king and ordered a big mac...

AND HE GOT IT SERVED.


ladies and gentlemen, lebron james

[CB4GOATPF]

everyone is ranked off championships. Why do you think no one takes charles barkley, reggie miller, karl malone seriously?

[B]Only idiots rank players in terms of rings :rolleyes:. I rank greatness in terms of Domination Per Game, Overall Efficiency EFF, Efficiency Per Minute PER and Total Impact Per Game Career or Statistical +/-: [U][COLOR="Red"]where GOAT Jordan is as N

[RaininTwos]

This guy named Kobe Bryant. I hear he led his team to a championship on 30/5/6.

Edit and also: the point of the game is to win. If one player puts up excellent stats but his team loses and the other puts up excellent stats but his team wins, I'll take the winner
:roll: Way to dodge the question. Lebron's stats, postseason and regular season, blows Kobe away. I dont understand this massive amount of stupidity. You guys are extremely biased. I bet you didnt say that Wade was the best player in 06. Yeah, I thought so.

[RaininTwos]

IF you remember who Godfather was on insidehoops, I think it's rainintwos, no one else is more ignorant than him.
Yeah right. Says the guy who made about 10 different accounts on here just because no one likes you. Go find something to do that's productive.

[justin43]

Lets say you have 2 armies each led by a general. You send them into a war and tell them to win the war. Each one has different squads and the generals run the show.

One General does well but all are killed.

The other does well and wins the war.

Which is the best General?


I swear to gawd if you say the dead one,,, you have more problems than a blind man in a mine field!

This is a very good analogy. Lebron failed to win a championship with a 65 win team. There is no denying the fact that he is one of only 3 superstars to ever faced this disappointment. Stats is good, but if those stats don't lead to a W then . . .:rolleyes:

Sure, great players put up stats, but only champions and all-time greats put up stats and win rings. This is why I weigh heavy on Final MVPs, if second option how close that player was to being a first option, and number of rings in my all-time great list. Is the Lebron the best player in the league? If you look purely at stats, yes. If you look at his achievements and failures through the last season with his stats, no arguably. Point is that Lebron is in no way clearly the best player in the league right now.

[DKLaker]

Patience guys....wait until Lebronze actually wins something before you start kissing his A.. For now he's just another pretender to the throne.

[barbaroi]

:roll: Way to dodge the question. Lebron's stats, postseason and regular season, blows Kobe away. I dont understand this massive amount of stupidity. You guys are extremely biased. I bet you didnt say that Wade was the best player in 06. Yeah, I thought so.
That's just the point - Lebron's stats don't blow Kobe's away. The one stat that truly matters (the win-loss column) points me toward Kobe. There are 2 sides to a game. In the WCF when Melo destroyed Ariza in game 1 for 39 on 70%, Kobe asked to be switched onto him for game 2. He held him to 34 on 41% in game 2, then to 21 on 31% in game 3, and never again allowed him to shoot above 40% for the rest of the series. In contrast Lebron allowed Alston, a far lesser talent than melo, to explode on him for 18 on 46% and 26 on 59% while the series was still up for grabs. Both Kobe and Lebron were tied 1-1 going into game 3 of their conference finals, but thanks in large part to Kobe's defensive work on Melo, as well as his offense, the Lakers came home tied 2-2 while Lebron came home down 3-1. This is why you can't base opinions solely on stats. There are other things to take into account.

[RaininTwos]

That's just the point - Lebron's stats don't blow Kobe's away. The one stat that truly matters (the win-loss column) points me toward Kobe. There are 2 sides to a game. In the WCF when Melo destroyed Ariza in game 1 for 39 on 70%, Kobe asked to be switched onto him for game 2. He held him to 34 on 41% in game 2, then to 21 on 31% in game 3, and never again allowed him to shoot above 40% for the rest of the series. In contrast Lebron allowed Alston, a far lesser talent than melo, to explode on him for 18 on 46% and 26 on 59% while the series was still up for grabs. Both Kobe and Lebron were tied 1-1 going into game 3 of their conference finals, but thanks in large part to Kobe's defensive work on Melo, as well as his offense, the Lakers came home tied 2-2 while Lebron came home down 3-1. This is why you can't base opinions solely on stats. There are other things to take into account.
So the fact that Melo was sick had nothing to do with that? Lets just ignore that and say that Kobe's "defense" stopped him. Yeah. Lets also ignore the fact that Lebron was put on Alston so that he could roam and play off ball defense. Its funny how you are penalizing a guy when there was really nothing he could do to make his team win other than guard Dwight Howard. I see you arent going to change your opinion, but listen to this. By your logic, D-Wade was the BEST PLAYER IN 05-06. Chauncey Billups was the best player in 04-05. Just because you win a championship, doesnt make you the best player. Its not that hard at all to understand. You are really overrating championships just because it helps your argument.

[barbaroi]

So the fact that Melo was sick had nothing to do with that? Lets just ignore that and say that Kobe's "defense" stopped him. Yeah. Lets also ignore the fact that Lebron was put on Alston so that he could roam and play off ball defense. Its funny how you are penalizing a guy when there was really nothing he could do to make his team win other than guard Dwight Howard. I see you arent going to change your opinion, but listen to this. By your logic, D-Wade was the BEST PLAYER IN 05-06. Chauncey Billups was the best player in 04-05. Just because you win a championship, doesnt make you the best player. Its not that hard at all to understand. You are really overrating championships just because it helps your argument.
Melo was sick beginning in Game 4, not Game 2 check your facts. Apparently you can't understand that I'm saying the players need the stats AND the win. 09 Kobe isn't 04 Billups. He led his team to a championship but he also had excellent stats. Lebron's stats are marginally better but he didn't get the win and his defense was worse, therefore I'll stick with Kobe.

[RaininTwos]

Melo was sick beginning in Game 4, not Game 2 check your facts. Apparently you can't understand that I'm saying the players need the stats AND the win. 09 Kobe isn't 04 Billups. He led his team to a championship but he also had excellent stats. Lebron's stats are marginally better but he didn't get the win and his defense was worse, therefore I'll stick with Kobe.
:oldlol: You would stick with Kobe no matter what. Its easy to see that. I have to wonder what you gain by doing that but that's your business. The man won 66 games with an average team, picked up an MVP along the way, and played out of his mind in a losing effort. Yet Kobe is better because he had a better team and won the chip. And you still didnt answer my question, you said that 09 Kobe isnt 04 Billups. We all know that, but the question still remains. He lead his team to a championship, why dont you consider him the best player in 04? But Wade is an even better example of how your logic clearly fails, was he the best player in 05-06? Or was Kobe better? Answer the question.

[All Net]

:oldlol: You would stick with Kobe no matter what. Its easy to see that. I have to wonder what you gain by doing that but that's your business. The man won 66 games with an average team, picked up an MVP along the way, and played out of his mind in a losing effort. Yet Kobe is better because he had a better team and won the chip. And you still didnt answer my question, you said that 09 Kobe isnt 04 Billups. We all know that, but the question still remains. He lead his team to a championship, why dont you consider him the best player in 04? But Wade is an even better example of how your logic clearly fails, was he the best player in 05-06? Or was Kobe better? Answer the question.

this question isn't to me but I honestly did think Wade was the best when he won that title. Not just because he won the title but the way he went about it. His stats were top quailty which helps but isn't the only thing that matters..I thought Wade's impact on the games he played in the playoffs was higher than everybody else. He was simply unguardable in every sense of the word.

People bash Wade at times saying if he is so good how did he let his team win 15 odd games....well when healthy he is a nightmare to defend. I am more scared of Wade than I am of Lebron. I would actually be more worried about Wade if he was on the Cavs than Lebron purely due to their style and I would trust Wade's mid-range game ahead of Lebrons.

Wade's injury problems really dropped him down the list of the top players last summer but the way he played in the olympics really changed alot of people's thoughts on him and he carried it through the season. Hense why I see no reason to moan if people say he is the best...I would be more inclined to say he is better than Kobe than saying Lebron is better than Kobe at this point.

I still think if Kobe was in Miami or Cleveland he would have no problem putting up 30, 7 and 5 and therefore his stats would be very compareable to Lebron's and Wade's. Due to Kobe's supporting cast he won't average high stats across the board and wouldn't need to. It's hard for Kobe to dominate the boards when you have Gasol, Bynum, Odom getting most of the available rebounds.

[barbaroi]

:oldlol: You would stick with Kobe no matter what. Its easy to see that. I have to wonder what you gain by doing that but that's your business. The man won 66 games with an average team, picked up an MVP along the way, and played out of his mind in a losing effort. Yet Kobe is better because he had a better team and won the chip. And you still didnt answer my question, you said that 09 Kobe isnt 04 Billups. We all know that, but the question still remains. He lead his team to a championship, why dont you consider him the best player in 04? But Wade is an even better example of how your logic clearly fails, was he the best player in 05-06? Or was Kobe better? Answer the question.
I just answered that. It's not my fault you can't read. And I quote "the player needs the stats AND the win". Did you catch it this time? Stats AND win. Billups in 04 had the win but not the stats to make an argument that he was the best player. And Wade was very arguably the best player in 06. I personally wouldn't have chosen him, but I have no problem with anyone saying he was.

[RaininTwos]

I just answered that. It's not my fault you can't read. And I quote "the player needs the stats AND the win". Did you catch it this time? Stats AND win. Billups in 04 had the win but not the stats to make an argument that he was the best player. And Wade was very arguably the best player in 06. I personally wouldn't have chosen him, but I have no problem with anyone saying he was.
What a cop out. "I would have chosen him". That's what you just said. Therefore exposing you for what you truly are a Kobe stan in hiding. You said that a player needed stats and the win, Wade had that. But you wouldnt have chosen him? Hypocritical. Why dont you just say that he is not the best player in your mind because you think Kobe is better, instead of typing all of this BS about how he didnt win a championship. TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, not just star players. No matter how well they play. Just admit you were/are biased and move on. No need to be ashamed though.

[Raider007]

Hard to believe RaininTwos is still fighting over this. I posted last night and he was posting. I get home from work the next day, and hes still arguing the same point.

This is obviously a meth addict with a scrambled turrets syndrome. Did you take a moment out to look at shiny nickles?:lol Let it go, you are not capable of understanding. It is fine to disagree (point noted), but people have opinions and yours is just a little more baked than the others.

[Mikaiel]

I hope most of you guys will not have any children. Let natural selection do its job, please.

[barbaroi]

What a cop out. "I would have chosen him". That's what you just said. Therefore exposing you for what you truly are a Kobe stan in hiding. You said that a player needed stats and the win, Wade had that. But you wouldnt have chosen him? Hypocritical. Why dont you just say that he is not the best player in your mind because you think Kobe is better, instead of typing all of this BS about how he didnt win a championship. TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, not just star players. No matter how well they play. Just admit you were/are biased and move on. No need to be ashamed though.
Someone's getting a little overheated haha. The only reason I wouldn't have chosen Wade is because Wade was clearly not the defender Kobe was. They are two different situations. In one the player who won the championship had slightly lesser stats but better defense than his counterpart. In the other the player who won the championship had lesser stats and worse defense. Like I said I'm not going to complain if anybody says Wade was best in 06, I just happen to disagree on the basis of defense.

[RaininTwos]

Hard to believe RaininTwos is still fighting over this. I posted last night and he was posting. I get home from work the next day, and hes still arguing the same point.

This is obviously a meth addict with a scrambled turrets syndrome. Did you take a moment out to look at shiny nickles?:lol Let it go, you are not capable of understanding. It is fine to disagree (point noted), but people have opinions and yours is just a little more baked than the others.
My opinion are half baked? So when I say that GREAT TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS, that a little loopy and out there right? When I said that Lebron had better stats(pretty much across the board), that's something only a meth addict(which I am not, but thanks for throwing around insults) would say? Then not only me, but many others point out your hypocrisy, you just automatically assume that they are dumb and didnt understand your explanation of your mind-numbingly stupid theory. Its funny how you, clearly and upstanding citizen who isnt biased at all, is getting embarrassed by a meth addict.:oldlol:

[RaininTwos]

Someone's getting a little overheated haha. The only reason I wouldn't have chosen Wade is because Wade was clearly not the defender Kobe was. They are two different situations. In one the player who won the championship had slightly lesser stats but better defense than his counterpart. In the other the player who won the championship had lesser stats and worse defense. Like I said I'm not going to complain if anybody says Wade was best in 06, I just happen to disagree on the basis of defense.
Its funny you bring that up, didnt Kobe say himself that he let his defense slip in 05-06 because he had to do most of the scoring? Hmmm...... what do you have to say about that? Why dont you just forget it and give up. You were wrong from post one in this thread.

[madmax]

there is no point in arguing with Kobe stans - they are gonna twist and turn any argument in their favour, if it somehow doesn't fit their agenda:confusedshrug: Everyone with a clear mind could see that Lebron was clearly the best player last season - his statictical impact and dominance was undeniable and unrefutable, it sickens me that the guy played his skin off in Orlando series, single-handedly kept his choking teammates in the series and right now is still bashed for some strange reason. What more a guy could do? Average 50 pts. and 15 assists per game? Would that be enough to shut all the whiners?

[Raider007]

Did IP search on RaininTwos.
Search led to http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/yk2-pc.jpg



After digging deeper, I was able to get a photo of this ISH newbie

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/uf.jpg


Evidently, his mom helps him find drugs so he can post 24/7

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/uf22.jpg


She was kind enough to give me a pic of RaininTwos with his girlfriend

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/franko007.jpg

I noticed his Dad had 12 fingers as he waved goodbye

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/my-unkle.jpg


Freaky day at RaininTwos trailer park.

[phoenix18]

I am RaininTwos you idiot. I kept dropping hints that I wasnt a noob, but it seems that you couldnt follow trail of breadcrumbs if your life depended on it. That's cool though, keep posting images from your family album, we all enjoy laughing at how you cant counter my rebuttal.

[catch24]

I am RaininTwos you idiot. I kept dropping hints that I wasnt a noob, but it seems that you couldnt follow trail of breadcrumbs if your life depended on it. That's cool though, keep posting images from your family album, we all enjoy laughing at how you cant counter my rebuttal.

......Get a life dude

[Raider007]

I am RaininTwos you idiot. I kept dropping hints that I wasnt a noob, but it seems that you couldnt follow trail of breadcrumbs if your life depended on it. That's cool though, keep posting images from your family album, we all enjoy laughing at how you cant counter my rebuttal.

LMAO, I knew if i kept on poking around I would find out.

[phoenix18]

LMAO, I knew if i kept on poking around I would find out.
LMAO, I already said this on ISH. Kudos to for being extremely late. Laugh it up though.

[phoenix18]

......Get a life dude
Are we in eight grade? I would be at the gym right now, but my mom just got in a car accident leaving me with no car.

[catch24]

Are we in eight grade? I would be at the gym right now, but my mom just got in a car accident leaving me with no car.

lol, you might want to look in the mirror and ask yourself that same question. Your life though, my fault.

[justin43]

Kobe Bryant's 2009 Playoff Average

30.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.5 assists, +27.52 eff

Lebron James' 2009 Playoff Average

35.3 points, 9.10 rebounds, 7.3 assists, +37.00 eff

This is what Lebron fans used to justify saying that Lebron is better than Kobe. Lets take it point by point.

1. Points- Lebron has a 5.1 ppg advantage over Kobe in the players. First of all, both players play in different systems. Both players' teams have different necesities for their offense. The Cavs require Lebron to score more than the Lakers do for Kobe. We all are in agreement that Kobe's supporting cast is better, which means it requires less of offensive burden from Kobe. Would this take away the advantage? Probably not. Would having a weaker cast cause Kobe to score more? Definitely, but it is impossible to tell by how much.

2. Rebounds- Kobe has Gasol, Odom, and Bynum that takes away chances to get rebounds. The Lakers frontcourt is very good, so it shouldn't require Kobe to get that many rebounds.

3. Assists- The triangle system is the main reason for this. Lebron doesn't play in that type of system and he does dominate the ball for long periods of time, while the triangle doesn't allow Kobe to do that. In addition, through the triangle, someone else is more likely to get the assist.

For every stat there is a circumstance behind, so stats shouldn't be the sole determiner on who is better? Wade, Kobe, or Lebron.

These reasons plus the fact that Lebron and Kobe have similar achievements except for one, the NBA title, are what causes me to give Kobe the pass as the best player in the NBA until otherwise. Stats, achievements, and the title determines who is better.

Kobe- Has stats, achievements, and title
Wade- Has stats, but not achievements on the level of Lebron or Kobe this year, or title
Lebron- Lacks the title to put him above Kobe.

This is my full opinion on this thread.

[Raider007]

Kobe Bryant's 2009 Playoff Average

30.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.5 assists, +27.52 eff

Lebron James' 2009 Playoff Average

35.3 points, 9.10 rebounds, 7.3 assists, +37.00 eff

This is what Lebron fans used to justify saying that Lebron is better than Kobe. Lets take it point by point.

1. Points- Lebron has a 5.1 ppg advantage over Kobe in the players. First of all, both players play in different systems. Both players' teams have different necesities for their offense. The Cavs require Lebron to score more than the Lakers do for Kobe. We all are in agreement that Kobe's supporting cast is better, which means it requires less of offensive burden from Kobe. Would this take away the advantage? Probably not. Would having a weaker cast cause Kobe to score more? Definitely, but it is impossible to tell by how much.

2. Rebounds- Kobe has Gasol, Odom, and Bynum that takes away chances to get rebounds. The Lakers frontcourt is very good, so it shouldn't require Kobe to get that many rebounds.

3. Assists- The triangle system is the main reason for this. Lebron doesn't play in that type of system and he does dominate the ball for long periods of time, while the triangle doesn't allow Kobe to do that. In addition, through the triangle, someone else is more likely to get the assist.

For every stat there is a circumstance behind, so stats shouldn't be the sole determiner on who is better? Wade, Kobe, or Lebron.

These reasons plus the fact that Lebron and Kobe have similar achievements except for one, the NBA title, are what causes me to give Kobe the pass as the best player in the NBA until otherwise. Stats, achievements, and the title determines who is better.

Kobe- Has stats, achievements, and title
Wade- Has stats, but not achievements on the level of Lebron or Kobe this year, or title
Lebron- Lacks the title to put him above Kobe.

This is my full opinion on this thread.

Agreed (repped)

[Jacks3]

Kobe played 9 more playoff games then LBJ and against far tougher competition too. :ohwell:

[phoenix18]

lol, you might want to look in the mirror and ask yourself that same question. Your life though, my fault.
I am 19. And even I know that jumping into threads throwing around insults doesnt get you any cool points. But go on and keep doing your thing.

[All Net]

Kobe Bryant's 2009 Playoff Average

30.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.5 assists, +27.52 eff

Lebron James' 2009 Playoff Average

35.3 points, 9.10 rebounds, 7.3 assists, +37.00 eff

This is what Lebron fans used to justify saying that Lebron is better than Kobe. Lets take it point by point.

1. Points- Lebron has a 5.1 ppg advantage over Kobe in the players. First of all, both players play in different systems. Both players' teams have different necesities for their offense. The Cavs require Lebron to score more than the Lakers do for Kobe. We all are in agreement that Kobe's supporting cast is better, which means it requires less of offensive burden from Kobe. Would this take away the advantage? Probably not. Would having a weaker cast cause Kobe to score more? Definitely, but it is impossible to tell by how much.

2. Rebounds- Kobe has Gasol, Odom, and Bynum that takes away chances to get rebounds. The Lakers frontcourt is very good, so it shouldn't require Kobe to get that many rebounds.

3. Assists- The triangle system is the main reason for this. Lebron doesn't play in that type of system and he does dominate the ball for long periods of time, while the triangle doesn't allow Kobe to do that. In addition, through the triangle, someone else is more likely to get the assist.

For every stat there is a circumstance behind, so stats shouldn't be the sole determiner on who is better? Wade, Kobe, or Lebron.

These reasons plus the fact that Lebron and Kobe have similar achievements except for one, the NBA title, are what causes me to give Kobe the pass as the best player in the NBA until otherwise. Stats, achievements, and the title determines who is better.

Kobe- Has stats, achievements, and title
Wade- Has stats, but not achievements on the level of Lebron or Kobe this year, or title
Lebron- Lacks the title to put him above Kobe.

This is my full opinion on this thread.

Nice post, pretty much how I feel on this subject. I think the system Kobe is in hurts him in terms of overall stats and from Lebron's side his supporting cast and system may help his stats but certainly not his success.

[Simple Jack]

Yes I do, however the difference in passing/defense/rebounding combo between the two is less valuable than that of in their ability to get a shot off vs excellent defensive teams, and you need look no further than game 6 of the Cavs/Magic series to see that point.

Right. 1 game is a good sample size.

Anyway, you are negating the fact that their teams are vastly different in terms of skill and ability. Having players like Gasol, Odom, Fisher, Ariza give you unbelievable offensive options.

And again, give me the guy who scores more at a higher fg% any day of the week.

[Simple Jack]

Kobe Bryant's 2009 Playoff Average

30.2 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.5 assists, +27.52 eff

Lebron James' 2009 Playoff Average

35.3 points, 9.10 rebounds, 7.3 assists, +37.00 eff

This is what Lebron fans used to justify saying that Lebron is better than Kobe. Lets take it point by point.

1. Points- Lebron has a 5.1 ppg advantage over Kobe in the players. First of all, both players play in different systems. Both players' teams have different necesities for their offense. The Cavs require Lebron to score more than the Lakers do for Kobe. We all are in agreement that Kobe's supporting cast is better, which means it requires less of offensive burden from Kobe. Would this take away the advantage? Probably not. Would having a weaker cast cause Kobe to score more? Definitely, but it is impossible to tell by how much.

2. Rebounds- Kobe has Gasol, Odom, and Bynum that takes away chances to get rebounds. The Lakers frontcourt is very good, so it shouldn't require Kobe to get that many rebounds.

3. Assists- The triangle system is the main reason for this. Lebron doesn't play in that type of system and he does dominate the ball for long periods of time, while the triangle doesn't allow Kobe to do that. In addition, through the triangle, someone else is more likely to get the assist.

For every stat there is a circumstance behind, so stats shouldn't be the sole determiner on who is better? Wade, Kobe, or Lebron.

These reasons plus the fact that Lebron and Kobe have similar achievements except for one, the NBA title, are what causes me to give Kobe the pass as the best player in the NBA until otherwise. Stats, achievements, and the title determines who is better.

Kobe- Has stats, achievements, and title
Wade- Has stats, but not achievements on the level of Lebron or Kobe this year, or title
Lebron- Lacks the title to put him above Kobe.

This is my full opinion on this thread.

You nearly negate all of LeBron's attributes whilst saying that Kobe has a team around him so he doesn't need to do as much. Don't you think that same team he has around him that gives him the luxury of letting him "not do as much" help him win this title?

YOU DON'T RANK AN INDIVIDUAL BASED ON HOW HIS TEAM PERFORMS. That's stupid and goes against logic.


And again, you guys have yet to respond. To the people saying Kobes win put him above LeBron, do you consider Russel the GOAT? If you don't, please stop posting...better yet, stop living.

[Simple Jack]

Nice post, pretty much how I feel on this subject. I think the system Kobe is in hurts him in terms of overall stats and from Lebron's side his supporting cast and system may help his stats but certainly not his success.

I also want to point out that 05-06 Kobe was LITERALLY Kobe trying to do everything. Compare the stats, and then tell me again Kobe is capable of the same stats LeBron has been putting up the past 4 years.

[DKLaker]

Did IP search on RaininTwos.
Search led to http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/yk2-pc.jpg



After digging deeper, I was able to get a photo of this ISH newbie

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/uf.jpg


Evidently, his mom helps him find drugs so he can post 24/7

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/uf22.jpg


She was kind enough to give me a pic of RaininTwos with his girlfriend

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/franko007.jpg

I noticed his Dad had 12 fingers as he waved goodbye

http://www.gazzola.us/MTP/Images/my-unkle.jpg


Freaky day at RaininTwos trailer park.


That is an ALL-TIME HALL OF FAME CLASSIC!!!!!!!! :bowdown: :bowdown:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[All Net]

I also want to point out that 05-06 Kobe was LITERALLY Kobe trying to do everything. Compare the stats, and then tell me again Kobe is capable of the same stats LeBron has been putting up the past 4 years.

You mean when Kobe averaged 35, 5 and 5? the year before he put up 28, 6 and 6...very comparable to me.

If Kobe had a team built around with good shooters like what Lebron has had over the past year or there is no reason why he wouldn't rack up more assists. When you have Kwame and Mihm as your frontcourt the two guys made of glass hands it is pretty difficult to put up stats across the board. Alot all depends in the system you are in as well....each team has a different way of playing. Kobe in the triangle for example wouldn't get that many assists anyway..just not the way it is designed.

[DKLaker]

I am RaininTwos you idiot. I kept dropping hints that I wasnt a noob, but it seems that you couldnt follow trail of breadcrumbs if your life depended on it. That's cool though, keep posting images from your family album, we all enjoy laughing at how you cant counter my rebuttal.

Oh YOU'RE the same guy....good I thought there were two idiots on here....now we know it's just you......phew!!!
What are you a split personality???

[justin43]

You nearly negate all of LeBron's attributes whilst saying that Kobe has a team around him so he doesn't need to do as much. Don't you think that same team he has around him that gives him the luxury of letting him "not do as much" help him win this title?

YOU DON'T RANK AN INDIVIDUAL BASED ON HOW HIS TEAM PERFORMS. That's stupid and goes against logic.


And again, you guys have yet to respond. To the people saying Kobes win put him above LeBron, do you consider Russel the GOAT? If you don't, please stop posting...better yet, stop living.

Stop being a troll. In my post I pointed out that Lebron would probably still have the ppg advantage. It just wouldn't be as huge. You should know that the triangle severely affects a player's assist numbers. You know about the Laker frontcourt. Your argument is only less credible when you start to telling your opponent to stop living.:rolleyes:

When two players have similar stats and achievements, the only thing left to compare two players for a year is playoff success. Guess who has had the better playoffs.:roll:

As for Bill Russell, Jordan is simply the better player and it was before salary cap, so his team was probably one of the most stacked ever.

[Story Up]

What's that mean? Four counts a rape and sexual imposition he was charged for, eh? :confusedshrug:

No four titles to zero. :oldlol:
I'm just impersonating you man and your logic.

[Raider007]

Can a poster rep his alt account? Just asking cause that would be wrong.

[Simple Jack]

You mean when Kobe averaged 35, 5 and 5? the year before he put up 28, 6 and 6...very comparable to me.

If Kobe had a team built around with good shooters like what Lebron has had over the past year or there is no reason why he wouldn't rack up more assists. When you have Kwame and Mihm as your frontcourt the two guys made of glass hands it is pretty difficult to put up stats across the board. Alot all depends in the system you are in as well....each team has a different way of playing. Kobe in the triangle for example wouldn't get that many assists anyway..just not the way it is designed.

You include the %'s when it helps, but leave it out when it doesn't. Typical.

30 8 7 2 stls 1 block nearly 50% fg is better than 35 5 6 or 28 6 6 with ~45-46% fg.

[Simple Jack]

Stop being a troll. In my post I pointed out that Lebron would probably still have the ppg advantage. It just wouldn't be as huge. You should know that the triangle severely affects a player's assist numbers. You know about the Laker frontcourt. Your argument is only less credible when you start to telling your opponent to stop living.:rolleyes:

When two players have similar stats and achievements, the only thing left to compare two players for a year is playoff success. Guess who has had the better playoffs.:roll:

As for Bill Russell, Jordan is simply the better player and it was before salary cap, so his team was probably one of the most stacked ever.

You were on the debate team in middle school, right? I can tell.

Anyway, if you think Russel's team was that stacked, you have no idea about the history of the league, nor the players in it.

[All Net]

You include the %'s when it helps, but leave it out when it doesn't. Typical.

30 8 7 2 stls 1 block nearly 50% fg is better than 35 5 6 or 28 6 6 with ~45-46% fg.

They are bound to have different shooting %, Kobe is a different type of player to Lebron. Lebron is better at getting to the rim and is more efficient in terms of FG% certainly can't argue that. Not like Kobe shoots a terrible % though…around 45% is pretty good for a shooting guard. Lebron is a wing player, you would expect most small forwards to shoot better. My whole point is the two are very comparable stats wise and Kobe would put up great numbers like Lebron if he needed to..luckily he doesn't. My point wasn't that Kobe would certainly put up the same stats or better just that the stats would be similar. As I said you can't base everything on stats but if needed Kobe would put up great stats too.

[barbaroi]

You include the %'s when it helps, but leave it out when it doesn't. Typical.

30 8 7 2 stls 1 block nearly 50% fg is better than 35 5 6 or 28 6 6 with ~45-46% fg.
If you want to compare %'s use TS% which accounts for the 3ball and FT%. The year Lebron put up 30/8/7 he did it with 57 TS%. Kobe's 35/5/6 year he shot 56 TS%. Not a large disparity at all.

[magnax1]

Lebron is easily the third best in the league. Sorry, but your wrong Plzbelieve

[sbw19]

Right. 1 game is a good sample size.

Anyway, you are negating the fact that their teams are vastly different in terms of skill and ability. Having players like Gasol, Odom, Fisher, Ariza give you unbelievable offensive options.

And again, give me the guy who scores more at a higher fg% any day of the week.
That sample size cost them the season. But you could always go back and watch game 3 through 6 and see how the adjustments SVG made limited James' efficiency. It got worse to the point Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varejao all shot better than him in game 6.

If that's not good enough, go back and watch a young Kobe Bryant singlehandedly demolish the Spurs defense, and you'll understand why I say LeBron's game is flawed in comparison.

True Kobe had better teammates, which made his job easier, but so is his game. He played better defense too against Orlando. He actually had more blocks/steals against them than James despite playing 5 games. And the way Bron turned the ball over doesn't help his case as the player I'd trust to carry my team in the playoffs.

Sorry, Kobe for now. LeBron in maybe 2-3 years. Or maybe next year if he wins a ring now that he has Shaq.

[lilgodfather1]

That sample size cost them the season. But you could always go back and watch game 3 through 6 and see how the adjustments SVG made limited James' efficiency. It got worse to the point Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varejao all shot better than him in game 6.

If that's not good enough, go back and watch a young Kobe Bryant singlehandedly demolish the Spurs defense, and you'll understand why I say LeBron's game is flawed in comparison.

True Kobe had better teammates, which made his job easier, but so is his game. He played better defense too against Orlando. He actually had more blocks/steals against them than James despite playing 5 games. And the way Bron turned the ball over doesn't help his case as the player I'd trust to carry my team in the playoffs.

Sorry, Kobe for now. LeBron in maybe 2-3 years. Or maybe next year if he wins a ring now that he has Shaq.
Even if you don't consider Bron better than Kobe, you still have to argue Kobe over Wade which there is no way of doing. LeBron, Wade, Kobe.

[Story Up]

Even if you don't consider Bron better than Kobe, you still have to argue Kobe over Wade which there is no way of doing. LeBron, Wade, Kobe.

Way to contradict yourself einstein.

[lpublic_enemyl]

great players make those around them better.......

[Raider007]

Even if you don't consider Bron better than Kobe, you still have to argue Kobe over Wade which there is no way of doing. LeBron, Wade, Kobe.

To argue Kobe over Wade, just post the career stats of each.

Easy one, plus it makes the Kobe haters glow in the dark like a boil on a hookers @ss.

:party: :party: :party:

[Simple Jack]

[QUOTE=All Net]They are bound to have different shooting %, Kobe is a different type of player to Lebron. Lebron is better at getting to the rim and is more efficient in terms of FG% certainly can't argue that. Not like Kobe shoots a terrible % though

[sbw19]

Even if you don't consider Bron better than Kobe, you still have to argue Kobe over Wade which there is no way of doing. LeBron, Wade, Kobe.

All three are good enough to be argued for as the best in the game, and it might be easier for Kobe because he's been the longest-tenured, most accomplished and is the current reigning champ.

Fair or not, you need to win a ring in order to solidify your status as the best of the crop. LeBron is a step behind in that regard, and I'm sure Cavs management wants him to win it all next year and win him over. I cannot see him leaving Cleveland if the Cavs are crowned champs next season.

[Simple Jack]

That sample size cost them the season. But you could always go back and watch game 3 through 6 and see how the adjustments SVG made limited James' efficiency. It got worse to the point Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varejao all shot better than him in game 6.

If that's not good enough, go back and watch a young Kobe Bryant singlehandedly demolish the Spurs defense, and you'll understand why I say LeBron's game is flawed in comparison.

True Kobe had better teammates, which made his job easier, but so is his game. He played better defense too against Orlando. He actually had more blocks/steals against them than James despite playing 5 games. And the way Bron turned the ball over doesn't help his case as the player I'd trust to carry my team in the playoffs.

Sorry, Kobe for now. LeBron in maybe 2-3 years. Or maybe next year if he wins a ring now that he has Shaq.

I give up. If you don't get it now, you never will. And for the record, LeBron's playoff performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kobe's. Defense closing on him and all.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is almost 7 yrs. younger than Kobe. He's going to win his first NBA Finals MVP before the turn 28 yrs.old.

Kobe won his first NBA Finals MVP when he's 31 yrs.old. I am sure once LeBron have a decent supporting casts he's going to win more Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP than Kobe.

2010's is the decade of LeBron.

[Simple Jack]

All three are good enough to be argued for as the best in the game, and it might be easier for Kobe because he's been the longest-tenured, most accomplished and is the current reigning champ.

Fair or not, you need to win a ring in order to solidify your status as the best of the crop. LeBron is a step behind in that regard, and I'm sure Cavs management wants him to win it all next year and win him over. I cannot see him leaving Cleveland if the Cavs are crowned champs next season.

No, because then you are talking about careers my man. We are talking about the current best player. If you want to talk about success and achievements, Duncan and Shaq make Kobe look like a retarded step-child right now.

I'll say it again: YOU DON'T RATE HOW GOOD AN INDIVIDUAL IS BASED ON THE SUCCESS OF HIS TEAM.

[All Net]

LeBron is almost 7 yrs. younger than Kobe. He's going to win his first NBA Finals MVP before the turn 28 yrs.old.

Kobe won his first NBA Finals MVP when he's 31 yrs.old. I am sure once LeBron have a decent supporting casts he's going to win more Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP than Kobe.

2010's is the decade of LeBron.

I don't see how this has anything to do with currently. I think it will be at least a couple of years before Lebron wins a title. I think the other elite are in a better situation to win championships right now honestly. Lebron's still needs another scorer..I don't see a 38 year old Shaq being the answer.

[nbastatus]

Not right now, but soon the league will be his.

[sbw19]

No, because then you are talking about careers my man. We are talking about the current best player. If you want to talk about success and achievements, Duncan and Shaq make Kobe look like a retarded step-child right now.

I'll say it again: YOU DON'T RATE HOW GOOD AN INDIVIDUAL IS BASED ON THE SUCCESS OF HIS TEAM.

Reason I mentioned that is I value experience, the more a player is experienced the easier it is to argue for him that he's the best. I can count on Kobe delivering in key playoff moments more than I can count on LeBron because he's been there done that. LeBron will get there eventually, but until he does....

I agree that Shaq and Duncan are both better than Kobe career and accomplishment-wise, but that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[Lebron23]

I don't see how this has anything to do with currently. I think it will be at least a couple of years before Lebron wins a title. I think the other elite are in a better situation to win championships right now honestly. Lebron's still needs another scorer..I don't see a 38 year old Shaq being the answer.


That's why if the Cavs fail to win the NBA Championship next year. LeBron should sign with a stacked team.

He needs to take a pay cut because winning an NBA Championship as the No.1 option of his team is more important than becoming a Billionaire.

Kobe, Duncan, and Garnett are all in their 30's, and less than 3 years from now they are all past their prime.

If LeBron wants to earn more money he needs to become a good businessman like Magic Johnson.

[All Net]

That's why if the Cavs fail to win the NBA Championship next year. LeBron should sign with a stacked team.

He needs to take a pay cut because winning an NBA Championship is more important than becoming a Billionaire.

If LeBron wants to earn more money he needs to become a good businessman like Magic Johnson.

IF he really wanted to win bad enough Portland would be the perfect place for him. I feel Lebron wants to be in a big market, however no big market team are going to be a contender apart from L.A of course.

Lakers will be contenders for at least the next 5 years or so, Spurs have a few more years, Boston 1 maybe two...so it will be tough for Lebron to win a title in Cleveland.

[Lebron23]

IF he really wanted to win bad enough Portland would be the perfect place for him. I feel Lebron wants to be in a big market, however no big market team are going to be a contender apart from L.A of course.


Cavaliers don't have enough salary cap to be able to sign a dominant 2nd scoring option in 2010.

That's why the Cavs better win the NBA Championship next year, if they want LeBron to resign with the team cause winning changes everything.

New Jersey, Miami, and New York have promising core of younger talents.

[Simple Jack]

Reason I mentioned that is I value experience, the more a player is experienced the easier it is to argue for him that he's the best. I can count on Kobe delivering in key playoff moments more than I can count on LeBron because he's been there done that. LeBron will get there eventually, but until he does....

I agree that Shaq and Duncan are both better than Kobe career and accomplishment-wise, but that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

It would be irrelevant except you made it a point to include past achievements when discussing how good a player currently is.

As for delivering in the clutch; do people remember LeBron's 48 points against the Pistons? Do people forget how Kobe didn't show up at ALL in the finals when Shaq was on the team?

[sbw19]

It would be irrelevant except you made it a point to include past achievements when discussing how good a player currently is.

Apologies, should've stated why on the spot.


As for delivering in the clutch; do people remember LeBron's 48 points against the Pistons? Do people forget how Kobe didn't show up at ALL in the finals when Shaq was on the team?
Hats off to Bron for doing so but that doesn't change the overall picture for obvious reasons, Kobe's been money for much longer and on bigger stages than LeBron when it comes to playoff excellence.

And no matter how you look at it, Kobe right now has the right mix of skills, stats, experience/playoff swagger and accolades to be considered the most lethal weapon to have in the playoffs.

[Roundball_Rock]

Kobe won his first NBA Finals MVP when he's 31 yrs.old. I am sure once LeBron have a decent supporting casts he's going to win more Regular Season MVP and Finals MVP than Kobe.

Lebron had a 66 win team and could not win...

[Lebron23]

Lebron had a 66 win team and could not win...


You are an idiot.

What was Mo Williams, Varejao, and Ilgauskas stats in the Eastern Conference Finals?

LeBron was the no.1 reason why the Cavs won 66 games last year.

If He win his first Finals MVP next year he's automatically top 20 players of all time.

Scottie Pippen is top 35.

LeBron, Dirk Nowitzki and Iverson >>>>>> Sidekick Pippen.

[phoenix18]

Oh YOU'RE the same guy....good I thought there were two idiots on here....now we know it's just you......phew!!!
What are you a split personality???
Fail. Its funny how arguing over Kobe makes people throw insults and post retarded pictures when most people here already know what I look like and I am not even white.:roll:

[Simple Jack]

Apologies, should've stated why on the spot.


Hats off to Bron for doing so but that doesn't change the overall picture for obvious reasons, Kobe's been money for much longer and on bigger stages than LeBron when it comes to playoff excellence.

And no matter how you look at it, Kobe right now has the right mix of skills, stats, experience/playoff swagger and accolades to be considered the most lethal weapon to have in the playoffs.

I just don't understand what mix of skills you are talking about.

LeBron is the better and more versatile defender.
The better passer
The better rebounder
The more efficient scorer

...

[Phong]

Don't you know how to read?

He said: mix of skills, stats, experience/playoff swagger and accolades

A mix of all of that.

[Simple Jack]

Don't you know how to read?

He said: mix of skills, stats, experience/playoff swagger and accolades

A mix of all of that.


And my point is, since he certainly doesn't have the mix of skills or stats on LeBron his argument is solely based on the success of Kobe's team which is a VERY flawed argument.

:banghead:

[SYM86]

You include the %'s when it helps, but leave it out when it doesn't. Typical.

30 8 7 2 stls 1 block nearly 50% fg is better than 35 5 6 or 28 6 6 with ~45-46% fg.


haha wait till lebron gets older, can't drive as fast, his shoot % will be down to 30%

[YAWN]

probably shouldn't of even bothered coming into this thread. at least simple jack brings the lulz

[Story Up]

You are an idiot.

What was Mo Williams, Varejao, and Ilgauskas stats in the Eastern Conference Finals?

LeBron was the no.1 reason why the Cavs won 66 games last year.

If He win his first Finals MVP next year he's automatically top 20 players of all time.

Scottie Pippen is top 35.

LeBron, Dirk Nowitzki and Iverson >>>>>> Sidekick Pippen.

I'd take Pippen in a heart beat over Iverson and probably Nowitzki. This so called "sidekick" did just fine leading the Bulls to the post-season when Jordan was playing baseball.

[Simple Jack]

haha wait till lebron gets older, can't drive as fast, his shoot % will be down to 30%


That's arguably the best logic ever. Congrats.

[Simple Jack]

probably shouldn't of even bothered coming into this thread. at least simple jack brings the lulz

Shouts to all my fans!

[Raider007]

haha wait till lebron gets older, can't drive as fast, his shoot % will be down to 30%

:rolleyes:

[Simple Jack]

I'd take Pippen in a heart beat over Iverson and probably Nowitzki. This so called "sidekick" did just fine leading the Bulls to the post-season when Jordan was playing baseball.

Are you forgetting that Iverson did just fine leading the 76ers to the finals?

[FinishHim!]

My oh my how they change their tune.

[nbacardDOTnet]

My oh my how they change their tune.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[All Net]

My oh my how they change their tune.

Indeed :oldlol:

[DirkNowitzki41]

My oh my how they change their tune.

Wow, indeed.

[PurpleChuck]

Epic thread. Nice dug.

Classic PB fail.:roll:

[Disaprine]

:roll: :applause: