Patrick Ewing vs David Robinson

[josh99]

Who was the better player in your opinion? I never really had the chance to watch either of them in their prime apart from a couple of games that were replays.

I did some research and here is some stuff to look at:
Head to Head (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=ewingpa01&p2=robinda01)
Career Stat Comparison (http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=robinda01&y1=2003&p2=ewingpa01&y2=2002)
David Robinson's stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinda01.html) (including awards down the bottom)
Patrick Ewing's stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html) (including awards down the bottom)

[Shaolinswords]

This is the head to head :

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=ewingpa01&p2=robinda01

[josh99]

This is the head to head :

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=ewingpa01&p2=robinda01
Thanks. I must have put in the wrong link...

[ShaqAttack3234]

I may be biased having watched Ewing a lot more since I've lived in New York all my life, but if I want to win a championship, I'll take Pat over David.

David was more talented because of his freakish athleticism, perimeter skills, quickness and the fact that he was left handed, but he was never the leader that Ewing was.

I also think that Patrick's game was more suited for the playoffs. He had a better post game with a solid drop step, his favorite "3 step move", a good jump hook and a turnaround jumper. David never seemed as comfortable with his back to the basket. He could score anywhere because of his athleticism and shooting touch and he had somewhat of an up and under move, but it never seemed fluid. He always seemed robotic with his back to the basket. He was at his best facing up and running the floor. He simply wasn't as tough as Ewing was.

Defensively, both were great and although Ewing wasn't as flashy as Robinson I think he was just as solid of an anchor.

Robinson, however has a history of losing series with homecourt.

1991- Robinson's Spurs lost in 4 games in the 1st round to a Warriors team that had won 11 less games. David put up numbers 26/13/4 on 69% shooting so the blame can't all be placed on him, but Golden State was one of the worst defensive. They allowed 115 points per game(2nd most in the NBA), They had the 5th worst defensive rating and they played at the 2nd fastest pace so the numbers don't quite tell the story. David managed just 18 points in the elimination game.

1994- Robinson's Spurs lost in the first round to a lower seed Utah Jazz team. David averaged an even 20/10 on just 41% shooting.

1995- Robinson's Spurs lost in the WCF to a Rockets team that won 15 less games. He had just 19/10 on 6/17 shooting with 6 turnovers while facing elimination in game 6. He was completely destroyed head to head against Olajuwon.

Hakeem Olajuwon- 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 5 apg, 4.2 to, 4.1 bpg, 1.3 spg, 56 FG%
David Robinson- 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 4.5 to, 2.2 bpg, 1.5 spg, 44.7 FG%

Despite being shut down offensively, Ewing atleast played Olajuwon tough defensively and held him to 26.9 ppg(on 21.4 shots), 9.1 rpg, 3.6 apg(but 3.6 turnovers) and an even 50% shooting. Ewing did atleast outrebound Olajuwon by 3 per game and block more shots than Hakeem. It was also a close 7 game series despite Houston having homecourt.

1996- Robinson's Spurs lost to a lower seeded Jazz team in the 2nd round. David hardly played like a superstar in the elimination game with just 17 and 8. For the series he averaged just 19.3 ppg, 9 rpg on 47.5% shooting.

Name some moments where Robinson came through with gutsy, clutch playoff performances like these.

Game 5 of the Knicks/Heat series in 1999- This now became a 1 game series in Miami, winner take all game. The Knicks were the 8th seed and trying to become just the second 8th seeded team to knock off a number 1 seed. Ewing was 36 and so clearly injured and limping so noticeably that I thought he was going to be out for the game at any minute pretty early. Instead he came through with 22 points and 11 rebounds vs a prime Alonzo Mourning who had just 21 and 5 on 6/14 shooting. Mourning, by the way was the defensive player of the year that season and 2nd in MVP voting. Zo was also 29 and in the prime of his career. No other Knick had more than 14 points, but Ewing led the way. His 22 points are even more impressive when you remember how so the pace was and how tough Miami's defense was. Ewing didn't take the easy way out by shooting 20 footers all day either. He played in the post and shot jump hooks, turnaround jumpers and running shots across the lane. In reality Patrick shouldn't have even been playing with that injury.

Game 7 of the 1994 Eastern Conference Finals- After winning an elimination game on the road in game 6, the Knicks went back to New York for a deciding game 7. Ewing came up huge with 24 points, 22 rebounds, 7 assists and 5 blocks including the gamewinning tip dunk. That sent New York to the NBA finals for the first time since

Game 6 of the 1992 Eastern Conference Semi-Finals- Playing on a badly sprained ankle and facing elimination vs Jordan's Bulls, Ewing had 27 points, 8 rebounds and 3 blocks on 13/22 shooting to force the series to 7 games. The Bulls were the defending champs and had won 67 games that year(16 more than the Knicks).

Game 5 of 1992 Eastern Conference 1st round- Ewing led the Knicks to a victory in the deciding game 5 vs the bad boy Pistons with 31 points, 19 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 blocks.

Game 4 of the 1990 Eastern Conference 1st round- The Knicks had trailed Bird's Celtics 0-2, but Ewing and the Knicks battled back. In game 3 Patrick had 33, followed with 44 in game 4 and 31 in the clinching game 5 at the Boston Garden! Ewing's entire game 4 statline was 44 points, 13 rebounds, 7 steals, 3 assists and 2 blocks. :eek:

I'll take a leader like Ewing anyday over Robinson who was good to get you into the 2nd round, but usually not to go any farther. He only went to the WCF once as the best player on his team and he never led his team to the finals despite having a cast of Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman and Vinny Del Negro in their primes and a bench of Chuck Person, Jr Reid, Doc Rivers and Terry Cummings. He had great supporting casts in 1990, 1991, 1995, 1996 and 1998, but he failed to make the finals each time and only made the WCF once.

I like Robinson, but he simply was better suited to be the second option on a championship team. Not because of a lack of talent, but because he just didn't have the mentality necessary to lead a team to a title. Robinson's resume looks better and he was the better individual player in the regular season so I can see why some would take him. Playoffs are the difference in my opinion. Ewing had great statistical seasons(1990, 1991), he had longevity, he had big playoff performances and he had his fair share of team success as the number 1 option.

It's a shame that Ewing had such bad luck when it came to winning a championship. He was beaten by Jordan's Bulls 3 straight seasons including a 7 game series in 1992. He lost in 7 games in the finals the year after Jordan retired partially because of Hakeem's miracle block in game 6. His finger roll rimmed out in game 7 of the ECSF in 1995 denying him again. The suspension in 1997 denied Ewing of a title once again and finally when he made it back to the finals in 1999 he was injured and he couldn't play.

[HealthieJunky]

I think David Robinson is definitely better than Patrick Ewing.

David has won a championship while Ewing hasn't. Simple basis.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I think David Robinson is definitely better than Patrick Ewing.

David has won a championship while Ewing hasn't. Simple basis.

David played with Tim Duncan, Ewing didn't.

[redhonda76]

I think David Robinson is definitely better than Patrick Ewing.

David has won a championship while Ewing hasn't. Simple basis.

What a dumb statement. So I guess Pierce is better than LeBron?

I pick Ewing over David any day.
Pretty much ShaqAttack sums it up of what I needed to say. David just don't have the leadership quality that Ewing had to push his team during playoff time.
Ewing didn't need to rely on athleticism on his game , that's why despite his numberous injuries, he was still producing respectable number at age of 36.

[Shaolinswords]

If pat played his normal game in the 94' finals, the Knicks would have won the title.

[ShaqAttack3234]

If pat played his normal game in the 94' finals, the Knicks would have won the title.

The same could be said for David in the WCF. Atleast Patrick played strong defense and made it tough for Olajuwon in 1994. He did play half of his game. Robinson on the otherhand was destroyed at both ends.

[Shaolinswords]

The same could be said for David in the WCF. Atleast Patrick played strong defense and made it tough for Olajuwon in 1994. He did play half of his game. Robinson on the otherhand was destroyed at both ends.

Ewing relied heavily on shooting and didn't attack the basket like it should. The 94 Knicks were better imo than the 94 Rockets.

Don't forget that he had an abyssimal FG% for the finals.

[icemanfan]

So league MVP Defensive, player of the year, scoring title, Quad Double (one of four players) all that plus they gave that to D Rob over Ewing because David was in a Huge market while poor Pat was stuck in tiny NYC market....poor guy. You have got to be ****ing kiding me.

This is Pat
11

[ShaqAttack3234]

[QUOTE=icemanfan]So league MVP Defensive, player of the year, scoring title, Quad Double (one of four players) all that plus they gave that to D Rob over Ewing because David was in a Huge market while poor Pat was stuck in tiny NYC market....poor guy. You have got to be ****ing kiding me.

This is Pat
11

[Amare4lyfe]

David gives you the stats but stats don't always tell you the whole story. David just didn't perform like a leader. I would rather have a good leader than a good soldier.

[Bigsmoke]

David Robinson gets my vote.

[icemanfan]

:roll: Garbage post. Robinson choked in the playoffs several times, the Knicks would not have another title with him in Ewing's place because Ewing was the better playoff performer.

Ewing had better teams? :oldlol:

1990- Robinson had a 22/8 PF, Terry Cummings as well Willie Anderson(15.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.4 apg, 49.2 FG%), Rod Strickland(14/4/8/2 on 47% shooting) and Sean Elliott who even as a rookie was solid(10/4/2 on 48%).

1991- Same cast as the year before except with Cumming's production down a bit(18/8), but Elliott's way up(16/6/3 on 49% shooting).

1995- Robinson had Sean Elliott(18 ppg, 47% shooting, 41% 3 point shooting), Avery Johnson(13/8 on 52% shooting), Vinny Del Negro(12.5 ppg, 3 apg, 49% shooting, 41% 3 point shooting), Chuck Person(11 ppg in 25 mpg on 39% 3 point shooting and 5.5 3 point attempts) and Dennis Rodman(7 ppg, 17 rpg, 2 apg and 57% shooting, plus a 2 time DPOY and eventual 5 time champ).

1996- Elliott was a 20/5/3 player who shot 47% and 41% on 3's. Del Negro averaged 14.5 ppg and 4 apg while shooting 50% and 38% on 3's. Avery Johnson was a 13/10 player who averaged 1.5 steals and shot 49%. Chuck Person was an 11/5 sixth man who shot 41% on 3's despite taking nearly 6 of them per game.

Face it, the bad team argument doesn't work, particularly in the mid 90's. Elliott was an athletic small forward with 3 point range who could create his own shot, run the floor, get to the basket and make plays for his teammates. Avery Johnson was a very smart point guard who would find ways to get tot he basket, he learned how to hit the open shots he'd often get and he was an excellent passer/playmaker as well as a good defender. Then you had great role players like Del Negro and Person, the ebst rebounder ever/2 time DPOY Dennis Rodman. They not only had a legit starting that was covered at every position, but a damn good 6th man as well. They had a solid starting point guard, a legit 2nd scorer in Elliott who could score from the perimeter and a few different 3 point shooters and scorers.


1992 Knicks
Ro Blackman, Doc Rivers, John Starks, Charles Smith and Charles Oakley
1993 Knicks
Eric Anderson, Ro Blackman, Derek Harper, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley and Doc River
1994 Knicks
John Starks,Eric Anderson, Ro Blackman, Derek Harper, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley
1995 Knicks
Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley, Derek Harper, JR Reid, Doug Christie, Willie Anderson, Charles Smith
1996
Allan Houston,Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley, John Starks, Terry Cumings
1997
Allan Houston,Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley, John Starks, Terry Cumings (since you have such a high opinion of him)
1998
Larry Johnson, Chris Childs, Charlie Ward, Allan Houston, Charles Oakley, John Starks

BTW nice try at distracting from the total disparity between the two players accomplishments. As usual you hate the facts because the interfere with your feelings.

[icemanfan]

David gives you the stats but stats don't always tell you the whole story. David just didn't perform like a leader. I would rather have a good leader than a good soldier.
true whn Ewing lead the Knicks to..em when Ewing put the Knicks on his shoulders and the the title in.......nevermind. Ewing never did ****. So why did you pick Ewing again?

[dnyk1337]

Ewing was a warrior. Robinson was not.

I think it's pretty clear who the better player was. Robinson had no heart. I think the way he wanted that scoring title shows the type of person he was. More of a stats oriented player.

Never won anything until Tim Duncan showed up in town.

Ewing's team was a defensive minded team that grinded every second of the game out. It was war. You didn't play against the Knicks of the 90s, you went to war against them. I think it's clear by the number of fights/rivalries the Knicks were known to have back then.

Who did the Spurs have as a rival? DRob and his smooth back to the basket game.

[ShaqAttack3234]

1992 Knicks
Ro Blackman, Doc Rivers, John Starks, Charles Smith and Charles Oakley
1993 Knicks
Eric Anderson, Ro Blackman, Derek Harper, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley and Doc River
1994 Knicks
John Starks,Eric Anderson, Ro Blackman, Derek Harper, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley
1995 Knicks
Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley, Derek Harper, JR Reid, Doug Christie, Willie Anderson, Charles Smith
1996
Allan Houston,Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley, John Starks, Terry Cumings
1997
Allan Houston,Charlie Ward, Charles Oakley, John Starks, Terry Cumings (since you have such a high opinion of him)
1998
Larry Johnson, Chris Childs, Charlie Ward, Allan Houston, Charles Oakley, John Starks

BTW nice try at distracting from the total disparity between the two players accomplishments. As usual you hate the facts because the interfere with your feelings.

Both had some good casts, but Ewing accomplished more as the best player on his team. That's a fact. Ewing had better playoff performances, that's another fact. And I didn't even mention 1998 when Robinson had Duncan, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott and Vinny Del Negro, but once again all he could manage was a second round exit...as usual.

[Shep]

surely this is a joke thread. it is easily robinson. whats next? who is the better player? michael jordan or kobe bryant? :roll:

[dnyk1337]

BTW nice try at distracting from the total disparity between the two players accomplishments. As usual you hate the facts because the interfere with your feelings.

Whose feelings are really being hurt here? I think it's pretty clear to everyone that you've been emotionally hurt over this thread and everyone picking Ewing over Robinson.

[Amare4lyfe]

true whn Ewing lead the Knicks to..em when Ewing put the Knicks on his shoulders and the the title in.......nevermind. Ewing never did ****. So why did you pick Ewing again?

oh, and u think David put his team on his shoulder to get his NBA title?
Oh wait, when David put his team on his shoulder , they never made it to the finals and in fact Avery Johnson said they can't rely on David anymore.

[redhonda76]

oh, and u think David put his team on his shoulder to get his NBA title?
Oh wait, when David put his team on his shoulder , they never made it to the finals and in fact Avery Johnson said they can't rely on David anymore.

Totally agree.

[CB4GOATPF]

Robinson was Better...already have prooved that many times.

Even though i liked Ewing more ...i have to admit it.

Robinson has one of the highest Play-Off PER of All Time. Ewing wasn`t as Efficient, A Missmatch Problem, Talented and All Around Gamed than Robinson not even close.

A 1989-1995/96 Robinson before injury was Better than Ewing clearly. Although Ewing himself was great during those years before injuries himself.

This is coming from a D-Rob hater BTW

[icemanfan]

#1 what differance did it make either way
#2 David shull ****ed Ewings eyes out of their sockets when it comes to individual accomplishemnts. Since niether one won a championship without Tim Duncan then what else did you want to go on?
#3 Ewing failed completely and totaly and for all time as an NBA player retiring out of Orlando having never won a damn thing. He never led his team anywhere but out. Since the object of the game is to win then Ewing = failure.
#4 D Rob always put his family and God before his team. For this he has been called weak and just about everything not nice in the book. He built a school here for underpriviledge kids using his own money. He won just about every individual award you can win in the NBA. If Ewing was a warrior he was a tru warrior in the same line as Artest. A lot of noise and zero accomplishments.

[dnyk1337]

What accomplishments? Statistical accomplishments?

I'm sure you'd be backing up Ewing if he played for the Spurs instead. It's sad, but that's how most fans defend players these days. You mean to tell me with a straight face that your opinion is unbiased? Please...

Robinson was weak. And Ewing is not the same as Artest. Robinson never led anybody to the Finals.

[icemanfan]

Both had some good casts, but Ewing accomplished more as the best player on his team. That's a fact. Ewing had better playoff performances, that's another fact. And I didn't even mention 1998 when Robinson had Duncan, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott and Vinny Del Negro, but once again all he could manage was a second round exit...as usual. Could be true but if he did he left nothing in the way of awards to show it. D.Rob won everything there is to win except all-star game MVP. As for 1998 , Tim Duncan's rookie year, David did not play the start of that year due to the back injury the year before. He was still hurt most of the year. Truly never got back to even 80% from there until the end of his career. Niether one of them even cares what a bunch of guys on a basketball thread think so it matters very little. I will agree to disagree and once again have the facts on my end of the table. But we all know numbers never tell the entire story when it comes to sports so I truly conceed that Ewing may have ment more to his team than D Rob did to the Spurs. My choice is D Rob you choose different then that is cool. Its just scribblings on a web site.

[ShaqAttack3234]

#1 what differance did it make either way

Ewing consistently showed up in the playoffs and didn't shrink when the moment got bigger. Look at the performances I cited on the first page.


#2 David shull ****ed Ewings eyes out of their sockets when it comes to individual accomplishemnts. Since niether one won a championship without Tim Duncan then what else did you want to go on?

Ewing's 1990 season rivals any of Robinson's seasons statistically. 28.6 pts, 10.9 rbs, 2.2 asts, 4 blks, 1 stl and 55.1 FG%. He was also 77.5% from the line. That's ridiculous effiency for 29 points per game.


#3 Ewing failed completely and totaly and for all time as an NBA player retiring out of Orlando having never won a damn thing. He never led his team anywhere but out. Since the object of the game is to win then Ewing = failure.

Ewing did a better job as the number 1 guy than Robinson. Atleast he made it to game 7 of the finals. Robinson didn't even make it to game 7 of the conference finals before Duncan came along. In fact before Duncan, Robinson won a total of 5 playoff series. Ewing won 17 playoff series with the Knicks.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Could be true but if he did he left nothing in the way of awards to show it. D.Rob won everything there is to win except all-star game MVP. As for 1998 , Tim Duncan's rookie year, David did not play the start of that year due to the back injury the year before. He was still hurt most of the year. Truly never got back to even 80% from there until the end of his career. Niether one of them even cares what a bunch of guys on a basketball thread think so it matters very little. I will agree to disagree and once again have the facts on my end of the table. But we all know numbers never tell the entire story when it comes to sports so I truly conceed that Ewing may have ment more to his team than D Rob did to the Spurs. My choice is D Rob you choose different then that is cool. Its just scribblings on a web site.

Fair enough. It's defintley debatable. As I said earlier Robinson's resume looks better, but playoff performances are very important IMO.

[Showtime]

Never won anything until Tim Duncan showed up in town.

I'm sick of this comment. Robinson carried mediocre/bad teams to better records than they deserved, just because of his presence. He may not have won the title, or went deep into the playoffs, but he elevated his team consistently every season.

[TheAnchorman]

Already made this thread during the summer :pimp:

[RedZiggyZag]

Where do people get this idea, that Ewing is some type of MLK Leader? And is some type of Bill Russell Playoff Performer? Because he was neither, Was he a better leader than David Robinson? Yes, but that's not saying much. Ewing was never that great of a leader anyways if you ask me, those 90s Knicks looked Out of Control most of the time. Was he a better playoff performer than Robinson? Arguable, both of their stats decreased when playoff time came. I also recall Ewing missing a finger roll in a Playoff game against the Pacers.

Honestly, I think as far as who is the better player goes, It's Robinson. I mean there really wasn't anything Ewing could do that Robinson couldn't. While there were certain things that Robinson could do that Ewing couldn't. Example would be Robinson could pretty much anchor your paint from block to block which is a rare occassion in the NBA.

One thing, that really bothers me was the fact that Ewing could never dominate the Bulls frontcourt in the playoffs, whlie Robinson has proved he could in Regular season games as did Olajuwon. Now the regular season is obviously different, but it seems if Robinson had to deal with the Bulls frontcourt it wouldn't be too hard of a time for him.

It's a toss up for me for who'd I rather have, but Robinson is the better player if you ask me. Originally I thought Ewing a while ago, but I'm going with Robinson now.

[G.O.A.T]

Both had some good casts, but Ewing accomplished more as the best player on his team. That's a fact. Ewing had better playoff performances, that's another fact. And I didn't even mention 1998 when Robinson had Duncan, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott and Vinny Del Negro, but once again all he could manage was a second round exit...as usual.

Yes greats like Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson and Sean Elliot post-kidney operation.

If your going to dismiss Robinson's titles because he had Duncan than you can't tout Ewing's 2 ECF, 1 NBA finals runs. Neither got a title and I think Ewing had the better cast when each was top dog.

Both are great, I think Robinson was a significantly more talented player with a dramtically better resume, and believe both were best suited as a 1A option.

[CB4GOATPF]

Robinson was Better

*THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RINGS, MVP VOTINGS, ALL NBA TEAM SELECTIONS etc of Crap....But Real Broken Down Evidence and that COMPARED TO THE PLAYERS THAT SORRUNDED IN THEIR PRIMES AND OFCOURSE "BEFORE INJURIES"

I hate to admit it but its truth :confusedshrug:

I never liked Robinson...i always felt he let himself go in the play-offs and should have had more toughness despite his initial crappy teams.

Robinson had a very weak team initially in his career....up until 1997, especially Defensively

While Ewing had a Way Superior Defensive Team

The Knicks by far had a Superior Defensive Frontline

Robinson had a slightly better Offensive Perimeter Team or Slashing Team but Overal Weaker Team.

Robinson had to do more for his Weaker Team on both Offense and Defense:

Robinson was just Better than Ewing

Offense:

Mid Range Shooting: Equal
Far Range Shooting: ofcourse Ewing (Best Pure Shooting Center of All Time)
Post Fadeways: Ewing
Front Up Shooting: Equal
1 on 1 Off the Dribble Attack: Robinson by Miles
Drive to the Basket: Robinson by Miles
Ballhandling: Robinson
Coast to Coast: Robinson by Miles (One of the Very Few Centers Capable of Dribbling Full Court. Was a Slashy-like version of Ralph Sampson in a Stronger yet Shorter Version)
Causing Missmatches/Double Teaming: Robinson by Miles

Defense:

Man to Man Interior Defense: Ewing (Stronger Torso)
Overall Interior Defense: Robinson (Could Guard More Paint Area do do Athletic Capacity: Leap, Speed, Quickness and ofcourse Wingspam)
Shot Blocking: Slight Edge to Robinson do again Athletic Capacity and Wingspam: etc
Team Defense/Fill in Lanes etc: Robinson, again do to Athletic Capacity
Floor Defense: Robinson (due to agility, wingspam, foot speed)
Rebounding: Robinson (Wingspam and Leap Helped)
Game Creating: Robinson
Passing: Robinson
Clutch: Shooting Ewing
Clutch Overall Play: Robinson
Mental Toughness: Ewing

Athletics:

Torso Strength: Slight Edge to Ewing
Floor Strength: Ewing
Arm Strength: Ewing
Overall Body Strength: Robinson
Speed: Robinson by Miles
Quickness: Robinson by Miles
Agility: Robinson by Miles
Leaping Ability: Robinson

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Robinson`s Impact

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinda01.html

Offense:

Robinson Was a Better Offensive Player due to his: Capacity to Drive, Cause Missmatches, Ballhandling Abilities and Athletic Capacity: Speed, Quickness, Leaping Ability and Wingspam

*Caused More Difficutlies to Stop
*Was More Doubled
*Wen`t More to the Line
*More ofa Missmatch

Season Offensive Rating

1993-94 NBA 119.2 (6)
1994-95 NBA 119.9 (10)
Career NBA 116.3 (28)
Career 116.3 (26)

Season Free Throw Attempts

1989-90 NBA 837 (2)
1990-91 NBA 777 (2)
1991-92 NBA 561 (4)
1992-93 NBA 766 (2)
1993-94 NBA 925 (1)
1994-95 NBA 847 (2)
1995-96 NBA 823 (1)
1997-98 NBA 660 (4)
1998-99 NBA 363 (8)
Career NBA 8201 (11)

Defense:

Season Defensive Rating

1989-90 NBA 96.8 (2)
1990-91 NBA 95.9 (2)
1991-92 NBA 94.4 (1)
1992-93 NBA 99.9 (6)
1993-94 NBA 98.0 (8)
1994-95 NBA 98.6 (3)
1995-96 NBA 96.5 (1)
1997-98 NBA 93.6 (1)
1998-99 NBA 87.9 (1)
1999-00 NBA 92.2 (1)
2000-01 NBA 92.1 (2)
2001-02 NBA 94.9 (2)
2002-03 NBA 94.9 (3)
Career NBA 95.6 (6)

Player Impact of Efficiency Per Minute:

Season Player Efficiency Rating

1989-90 NBA 26.3 (5)
1990-91 NBA 27.4 (3)
1991-92 NBA 27.5 (2)
1992-93 NBA 24.2 (6)
1993-94 NBA 30.7 (1)
1994-95 NBA 29.1 (1)
1995-96 NBA 29.4 (1)
1997-98 NBA 27.8 (3)
1998-99 NBA 24.9 (3)
1999-00 NBA 24.6 (5)
2000-01 NBA 23.7 (10)
Career NBA 26.2 (4)

Ewing`s Impact:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html

Offense:

Ewing was not as Great Offensive Player as Robinson despite being a better long range shooter:

Wen`t less to line (did not cause as much missmatches), caused less precupation (double teaming) and a lower ORT:

They both shot at very similar FG% though...Ewings shooting was overall Better but...

*Do not Count Stats for a Post 1996-97 Ewing that was past his prime

*Do not Count Stats for a Post 1995-96 Robinson, not because it was his end of his prime but because he "never played the same again" due to injuries....

Ofcourse in the Last Seconds for a Jumper i would give to Ewing do tu Clutch Shooting

Season Free Throw Attempts

1989-90 NBA 648 (5)
1990-91 NBA 623 (5)
1991-92 NBA 511 (8)
1992-93 NBA 556 (10)
1993-94 NBA 582 (4)
1994-95 NBA 560 (7)
1996-97 NBA 582 (6)
Career NBA 7289 (20)

Season Defensive Rating

1987-88 NBA 101.3 (5)
1989-90 NBA 102.9 (10)
1990-91 NBA 101.5 (6)
1991-92 NBA 98.4 (2)
1992-93 NBA 94.3 (1)
1993-94 NBA 92.9 (1)
1994-95 NBA 98.3 (2)
1995-96 NBA 97.9 (5)
1996-97 NBA 95.7 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.3 (2)
1999-00 NBA 97.0 (9)
Career NBA 99.1 (29)
Career 99.1 (29)

Player Per Minute Impact:

Season Player Efficiency Rating

1988-89 NBA 22.1 (8)
1989-90 NBA 25.8 (6)
1990-91 NBA 23.7 (8)
1991-92 NBA 22.8 (9)
1993-94 NBA 22.9 (7)
1994-95 NBA 21.9 (9)
Career NBA 21.0 (39)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Play-Offs:

Player Impact of Efficiency Per Minute

Yearly Playoffs Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating

1998 NBA Shaquille O'Neal 31.00
1997 NBA Anfernee Hardaway 29.88
1996 NBA David Robinson* 29.10
1995 NBA Kevin Johnson 27.36
1994 NBA Charles Barkley* 27.85
1993 NBA Michael Jordan* 30.06
1992 NBA Michael Jordan* 27.24
1991 NBA Michael Jordan* 32.04
1990 NBA Michael Jordan* 31.63
1989 NBA Michael Jordan* 29.90
1988 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 38.95
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 28.46
1986 NBA Spud Webb 25.74
1985 NBA Michael Jordan* 24.72
1984 NBA Bernard King 27.60
1983 NBA Moses Malone* 25.72
1982 NBA Julius Erving* 22.46
1981 NBA Marques Johnson 27.65
1980 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 27.91
1979 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 26.54

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career_p.html

Career Playoffs Leaders and Records for Player Efficiency Rating

NBA

Rank Player PER

1. Michael Jordan* 28.59
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 26.83
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.47
5. Tim Duncan 26.09
6. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
7. Tracy McGrady 24.66
8. Dirk Nowitzki 24.45
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dwyane Wade 23.58
11. Dolph Schayes* 23.25
12. Kevin Garnett 23.19
13. Jerry West* 23.06
14. David Robinson* 23.02
.
.
.
48. Patrick Ewing* 19.63

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_yearly_p.html

Yearly Playoffs Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating

Year Lg Player DRtg

2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51
2007 NBA Tyrus Thomas 92.52
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.38
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen 96.07
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.35
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen 99.52
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Will not Include Win Shares, Defensive Win Shares or Offensive Win Shares...because they all depend "More, Way More" on Who Sorrounds You.

*Its clear Ewing had the Better Team Overall till 1997, especially Defensive Wise.

*Robison was quite alone till Timy Arrived and Sadly for the Spurs he was "Not Even Close to the Same Robinson do to Injury after the 95-96 season"

* A Healthy Robinson with Duncan would have probably have 3 Rings More

[CB4GOATPF]

Head to Head:

*To be More Fair for BOTH PLAYERS:

Will Only Count the Head to Head Meetings Betwen 1989 to 1995-96

A Total of 13 (68.4%) of There Total 19 Meetings

Robinson ages: 24-30
Ewing ages: 27-33

because...why?

*Robinson Never Played the Same Again after the 1995-96 season due to injury as i said before and

*Ewing was pretty much passed his prime after 1996 (he is older too so i can`t count the meetings after that)

Robinson:


TMin: 510
MPG: 39.2 (Played 1 Min More)

TPts: 314
FGs/FGAs: 125/235
FGAs PG: 18.1 (Shot Less)
PPG: 24.2 (Scored More)
FG%: 53.2% (Shot Way Higher %)
FTs/FTAs: 85 /127
FT%: 66.92%
TRBs: 129
RPG: 9.9 (Rebounded Less)
TBlks: 40
BPG: 3.08 (Blocked Same)
TAsts: 41
APG: 3.2 (Passed Better)
TStls: 25
SPG: 1.92 (Stole Better)
TTOV: 48
TOV PG: 3.69 (Turned the Ball Same)
TPFs: 49
PF PG: 3.8 (Commited Less Fouls)

Ewing

TMin: 497

MPG: 38.2 (Played a Minute Less)

TPts: 292
FGs/FGAs: 122/289
FGAs PG: 22.2 (Shot More)
PPG: 22.5 (Scored Less)
FG%: 42.2% (Way Less Effective)
FTs/FTAs: 42 / 60
FT%: 70% (Shot Better FT, Well Always Had :confusedshrug: )
TRBs: 144
RPG: 11.1 (Rebounded Better)
TBlks: 40
BPG: 3.08 (Same)
TAsts: 38
APG: 2.9 (Passed Lesser)
TStls:15
SPG: 1.15 (Stole Less)
TTOV: 3.8
TOV PG: 49 (Turned the Ball Same)
TPFs: 54
PF PG: 4.2 (Fouled More)

Finally Pure All Around Skills of Efficiency...

http://www.databasebasketball.com/leaders/leaderscareer.htm?stat=eff&lg=n

Career EFF Leaders

Player EFF Seasons
1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16
11 Jerry Lucas 28.13 11
12 LeBron James 27.20 6
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 27.17 18
14 Shaquille O'neal 27.11 17
15 Jerry West 27.10 14
16 David Robinson 26.98 14

37 Patrick Ewing 23.41 17

Looks like Ewing took it to himself to Defend well against (Same BPG and Better RPG) Robinson but...

Its quite Clear that Robinson was just "The Better Player" Overall!

Offensively (especially do to his Aethletic Versatility and Ballhandling): Better 1 on 1 Player, Skilled Off the Dribble Scorer, Could Coast to Coast Constantu, Caused More Missmatch Problems, Better All Around Defensively, Better Game Creating Wise, Better Passing Wise, Could Cause More Double Teaming, Got Fouled More, Superior Floor Defender (Athletic Capacity: Agility, Speed and Wingspam helped), Stealer, Better Leaper, More Agil, Faster, Quicker etc

Ewing was the Better Far Range Shooter, Skilled Post Player, Fadeaway Shooter, More Clutch Shooter, Tougher Mentally, Stronger Lower Torso, Stronger Arm Strength, More Tempered, More Agressive, Had More Heart ...but

... :no: still not enough to be better than Robinson

I hate to say the truth but Robinson was just better and this is comming from an Anti-Robinson dude....(he could have been much better if he actually had some balls to take the game personally)

:confusedshrug:

Greets

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Head to Head:

*To be More Fair for BOTH PLAYERS:

Will Only Count the Head to Head Meetings Betwen 1989 to 1995-96

A Total of 13 (68.4%) of There Total 19 Meetings

Robinson ages: 24-30
Ewing ages: 27-33

because...why?

*Robinson Never Played the Same Again after the 1995-96 season due to injury as i said before and

*Ewing was pretty much passed his prime after 1996 (he is older too so i can`t count the meetings after that)

Robinson:


TMin: 510
MPG: 39.2 (Played 1 Min More)

TPts: 314
FGs/FGAs: 125/235
FGAs PG: 18.1 (Shot Less)
PPG: 24.2 (Scored More)
FG%: 53.2% (Shot Way Higher %)
FTs/FTAs: 85 /127
FT%: 66.92%
TRBs: 129
RPG: 9.9 (Rebounded Less)
TBlks: 40
BPG: 3.08 (Blocked Same)
TAsts: 41
APG: 3.2 (Passed Better)
TStls: 25
SPG: 1.92 (Stole Better)
TTOV: 48
TOV PG: 3.69 (Turned the Ball Same)
TPFs: 49
PF PG: 3.8 (Commited Less Fouls)

Ewing

TMin: 497

MPG: 38.2 (Played a Minute Less)

TPts: 292
FGs/FGAs: 122/289
FGAs PG: 22.2 (Shot More)
PPG: 22.5 (Scored Less)
FG%: 42.2% (Way Less Effective)
FTs/FTAs: 42 / 60
FT%: 70% (Shot Better FT, Well Always Had :confusedshrug: )
TRBs: 144
RPG: 11.1 (Rebounded Better)
TBlks: 40
BPG: 3.08 (Same)
TAsts: 38
APG: 2.9 (Passed Lesser)
TStls:15
SPG: 1.15 (Stole Less)
TTOV: 3.8
TOV PG: 49 (Turned the Ball Same)
TPFs: 54
PF PG: 4.2 (Fouled More)

Finally Pure All Around Skills of Efficiency...

http://www.databasebasketball.com/leaders/leaderscareer.htm?stat=eff&lg=n

Career EFF Leaders

Player EFF Seasons
1 Wilt Chamberlain 41.50 14
2 Bill Russell 31.71 13
3 Oscar Robertson 31.61 14
4 Bob Pettit 31.11 11
5 Kareem Abdul-jabbar 30.93 20
6 Larry Bird 29.77 13
7 Elgin Baylor 29.74 14
8 Michael Jordan 29.19 15
9 Magic Johnson 29.10 13
10 Charles Barkley 28.16 16
11 Jerry Lucas 28.13 11
12 LeBron James 27.20 6
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 27.17 18
14 Shaquille O'neal 27.11 17
15 Jerry West 27.10 14
16 David Robinson 26.98 14

37 Patrick Ewing 23.41 17

Looks like Ewing took it to himself to Defend well against (Same BPG and Better RPG) Robinson but...

Its quite Clear that Robinson was just "The Better Player" Overall!

Offensively (especially do to his Aethletic Versatility and Ballhandling): Better 1 on 1 Player, Skilled Off the Dribble Scorer, Could Coast to Coast Constantu, Caused More Missmatch Problems, Better All Around Defensively, Better Game Creating Wise, Better Passing Wise, Could Cause More Double Teaming, Got Fouled More, Superior Floor Defender (Athletic Capacity: Agility, Speed and Wingspam helped), Stealer, Better Leaper, More Agil, Faster, Quicker etc

Ewing was the Better Far Range Shooter, Skilled Post Player, Fadeaway Shooter, More Clutch Shooter, Tougher Mentally, Stronger Lower Torso, Stronger Arm Strength, More Tempered, More Agressive, Had More Heart ...but

... :no: still not enough to be better than Robinson

I hate to say the truth but Robinson was just better and this is comming from an Anti-Robinson dude....(he could have been much better if he actually had some balls to take the game personally)

:confusedshrug:

Greets

/thread:violin: ......

[PMshooter]

Head to Head:

I hate to say the truth but Robinson was just better and this is comming from an Anti-Robinson dude....(he could have been much better if he actually had some balls to take the game personally)

:confusedshrug:

Greets

Great post, man! I'm a Ewing guy too. Watched damn near every Knicks game in the early and mid 90s and I loved the guy. Like you said, Ewing was a more versatile scorer, but Robinson was just as efficient. You add in Robinson's superior defense, and he's got to get the edge. Hakeem > both of them.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yes greats like Vinny Del Negro, Avery Johnson and Sean Elliot post-kidney operation.

As 3rd, 4th and 5th guys behind Robinson and Duncan(21/12/3 with 2.5 blocks on 55% shooting as a rookie), that's a damn good lineup.


If your going to dismiss Robinson's titles because he had Duncan than you can't tout Ewing's 2 ECF, 1 NBA finals runs. Neither got a title and I think Ewing had the better cast when each was top dog.

I doubt Ewing had better casts. Robinson's casts in 1990, 1991, 1995 and 1995 were as good as anything Ewing had. He had an 18-20 ppg scorer in Elliott who could shoot 3's, but he was also an athletic player who could get to the basket and create his own shots. Avery Johnson was a very efficient point guard who was good 13 ppg in his prime, 8-10 apg and a high FG%(around 50%), but not many turnovers. That's because he was smart and he knew his limitations, but he'd find ways t get to the basket, make plays for his teammates and hit the mid-range jumpers he was left open for. Rodman is probably the greatest rebounder of all time and an elite defender and guys like Vinny Del Negro gave them even more scoring with better than double figure scoring from each. Plus most of the Spurs players played solid defense.

Then Robinson also had Terry Cummings when he was a 22/8 player, Rod Strickland, Sean Elliott and Willie Anderson at the same time.

Those are good casts, it's not like Ewing's cast of Starks, Oakley, Mason and Harper was any better. That was also a good cast, but not anyone's dream team.

[Big#50]

Robinson>Ewing not even close. Give DROB tough defenders like Oakley, Smith, and Mason and he doesn't have to do every damn thing. The Spurs were soft. David would try to get his team involved but they were trash. VDN, Sean, Avery, and add a scrub.

[josh99]

Already made this thread during the summer :pimp:
Lol, well I didn't see it. What do you expect thought, it's the offseason. Thankfully the pre-season just started...

[godofgods]

Robinson is better. Ewing played for the Knicks so all his accomplishments are automatically overrated.

[G.O.A.T]

As 3rd, 4th and 5th guys behind Robinson and Duncan(21/12/3 with 2.5 blocks on 55% shooting as a rookie), that's a damn good lineup.

I doubt Ewing had better casts. Robinson's casts in 1990, 1991, 1995 and 1995 were as good as anything Ewing had. He had an 18-20 ppg scorer in Elliott who could shoot 3's, but he was also an athletic player who could get to the basket and create his own shots. Avery Johnson was a very efficient point guard who was good 13 ppg in his prime, 8-10 apg and a high FG%(around 50%), but not many turnovers. That's because he was smart and he knew his limitations, but he'd find ways t get to the basket, make plays for his teammates and hit the mid-range jumpers he was left open for. Rodman is probably the greatest rebounder of all time and an elite defender and guys like Vinny Del Negro gave them even more scoring with better than double figure scoring from each. Plus most of the Spurs players played solid defense.

Then Robinson also had Terry Cummings when he was a 22/8 player, Rod Strickland, Sean Elliott and Willie Anderson at the same time.

Those are good casts, it's not like Ewing's cast of Starks, Oakley, Mason and Harper was any better. That was also a good cast, but not anyone's dream team.

You are lying if you try and tell me you believe that horse hockey above. You're much smarter than that.

Most of those guys just aren't that good. Sean Elliott was a solid but never close to great player. As soon as he left SA and didn't have a good big man at his side he wilted. Than when he returned, the numbers perked up again.

Terry Cummings was nice, but they gave up Alvin Robertson to get him. And the idea that Cummings was a 20\9 guy as a Spur is a joke, maybe for like a minute but he was pretty much washed up as a starter when he got there.

And that was like David's rookie year.

Willie Anderson kind of sucked. I'm sure he had okay stats, most starters in their physical prime do. But he was the guy you'd pretend to be in the drive way when your out of control lay-up missed everything.

Avery Johnson was considered a weakness for the Spurs before they won the title. He was not a very good player and if he didn't become so economical as a PG and wasn't such a great leader he'd never have lasted.

Strickland was like 24 when the Spurs traded him. And Ewing had him too, but the Knicks didn't want him either.

Rodman was there for two seasons and mentally unstable.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Most of those guys just aren't that good. Sean Elliott was a solid but never close to great player. As soon as he left SA and didn't have a good big man at his side he wilted. Than when he returned, the numbers perked up again.

If we're going to use that logic then I'll ask you, what did Starks do without Ewing? Elliott wasn't a truly great player, but he was a 2 time all-star.


Terry Cummings was nice, but they gave up Alvin Robertson to get him. And the idea that Cummings was a 20\9 guy as a Spur is a joke, maybe for like a minute but he was pretty much washed up as a starter when he got there.

22/8 in 1990 and 18/8 in 1991, 17/9 in 1992 with San Antonio. He was defintley not washed up by the time he got there.


And that was like David's rookie year.

Which happened to be one of his best years as was his second year(another playoff failure). Those seasons probably rank behind just 1995, 1996 and possibly 1994 as his best seasons. They're part of his prime.


Willie Anderson kind of sucked. I'm sure he had okay stats, most starters in their physical prime do. But he was the guy you'd pretend to be in the drive way when your out of control lay-up missed everything.

Kind of sucked? He was a very solid all around player who could score in a few different ways and considering they had other solid players like Cummings, Elliott and Strickland so Anderson was just another solid player.


Avery Johnson was considered a weakness for the Spurs before they won the title. He was not a very good player and if he didn't become so economical as a PG and wasn't such a great leader he'd never have lasted.

Avery Johnson was far from a weakness. He was smart, a very good passer and he knew his limitations. You don't average 13/10 on 49% shooting if you're a weakness.


Strickland was like 24 when the Spurs traded him. And Ewing had him too, but the Knicks didn't want him either.

Ewing had him when he was a rookie and for half of his sophomore year. He was stuck behind Mark Jackson and he wasn't getting a chance to develop. In San Antonio he was a 14/8 player.


Rodman was there for two seasons and mentally unstable.

But Rodman is still a hall of fame type player.

[G.O.A.T]

You really like to argue huh?

Anyone can look at stats pick a guys best season and say they were that type of player, it doesn't make it so.

Also there is way more to it than stats. David's first two years he may have put up monster numbers but they maybe do not rank in his top five seasons as a pro. He was very talented but hadn't figured out what it took to win yet. The title years and the '95 MVP have to be the top three, the rest are debatable, but probably 1998 when he changed his game to fit in with Timmy coming back from serious injury and probably his rookie year because of the impact he had on the league.

But if you watched those teams, you'd know it was Robinson and scrub central the first two seasons. Some talented young guys as it turned out, but none showing much of anything at that point.

I didn't think Cummings put up that good of numbers, but that's stilla significant frop off from the 22\9 player you described him as. He was a shell of his San Diego and Milwaukee self.

And I stand by my story on Willie Anderson, he sucked. Look at how step his decline was after that rookie year. (Sucked by NBA starter standards)

[ShaqAttack3234]

Also there is way more to it than stats. David's first two years he may have put up monster numbers but they maybe do not rank in his top five seasons as a pro. He was very talented but hadn't figured out what it took to win yet. The title years and the '95 MVP have to be the top three, the rest are debatable, but probably 1998 when he changed his game to fit in with Timmy coming back from serious injury and probably his rookie year because of the impact he had on the league.

Well there's no way that David's second title('03) should be anywhere near his top 5 seasons. He wasn't even getting full starter minutes at that point.


But if you watched those teams, you'd know it was Robinson and scrub central the first two seasons. Some talented young guys as it turned out, but none showing much of anything at that point.

The only time it was Robinson and scrub central was '94, maybe '93.

I did watch the Spurs back then, and Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Vinny Del Negro and Chuck Person were far from scrubs and I stand by that. That's a solid supporting cast. No worse than Ewing's in the mid 90's.


I didn't think Cummings put up that good of numbers, but that's stilla significant frop off from the 22\9 player you described him as. He was a shell of his San Diego and Milwaukee self.

I don't think I described him as 22/9 I think I said 22/8 which he was over in in 1990. He was in the 8-9 rebound range the following 2 years as his scoring dropped to 17-18 per game, but other players scored more to pick up the slack.


And I stand by my story on Willie Anderson, he sucked. Look at how step his decline was after that rookie year. (Sucked by NBA starter standards)

Well, I remember Willie Anderson being a solid player in the early 90's.

[1987_Lakers]

David Robinson. He has better MVP fininshes, an actual MVP, a DPOY, better statistics, and has rings (although as second option). I think both players are comparable offensivley, but D-Rob separates himself defensively. But I will say D-Rob could only dream of having Ewing's drive.

[ShaqAttack3234]

but D-Rob separates himself defensively.

I disagree, I think Ewing was as good defensively. He was the anchor of one of the toughest defenses in history for years. He was an intimidator in the paint, he never backed down from anyone, his size and length gave him the ability to cover the post and he was a great team defender.

Unlike Robinson in the 1995 WCF, he played great defense on Olajuwon in the 1994 finals.

If not for the playoffs I'd pick Robinson. After the suspension robbed the Knicks of a chance to close out Miami at home in 1997, and with Starks and Larry Johnson out for the game, it would have been easy for Ewing to not show up. Instead he outplayed Alonzo Mourning head to head with 37 points and 17 rebounds on 17/27 shooting vs Mourning's 22 and 12 on 7/14 shooting. Ewing was 34 and 8 years older than Mourning and playing on an undermanned team, but he still came with everything he had.

[G.O.A.T]

You've made some good points Shaqattack and it's also notable that Ewing consistently outplayed David head to head in the early 1990's.

Still Robinson has an MVP, Two Rings and was voted to a higher all-NBA team almost every season they were both in their prime.

Mostly my memory just tells me Robinson better. And though I agree with '87 Lakers that Ewings drive was superior to David's it combined with his skill was still not enough to get that title.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Fair enough, I guess it's best to agree to disagree at this point.

[eliteballer]

There is virtually no argument you can make based on skills and abilities, team success, quality of teamates, statistics, and awards to conclude that Ewing was as good let alone better than Robinson. It's not close.

[ShaqAttack3234]

There is virtually no argument you can make based on skills and abilities, team success, quality of teamates, statistics, and awards to conclude that Ewing was as good let alone better than Robinson. It's not close.

Yes I can. Ewing had more success as the leader of his team, better longevity, he was a better playoff performer and he had a better back to the basket game.

[Dave_520]

Ewing was a bit overrated IMO. He gave that nasty scowl, grunted and chest bumped all over the place during his 94 playoff run, and turned a dirty, physical group of guys into "almost" champs and he gets the label of being this physical beast of epic proportions.

Ewing, while physical was known as a poor rebounder for his skill set, shot too many fade away jumpers, esp early in his career, and floundered through MANY playoffs before the 94 season.. even more than Robinson, and all this despite having decent supporting casts (excluding Kiki Vanderwege..lol).

He developed some decent moves after the 1990 season in which he peaked (I believe it was 90) statistically, but never equaled those numbers again even the year he went to the Finals.

Now granted much of this came be blamed on having to play the Bulls much of his playoff career but I tend to think he was overrated a bit, and ESPECIALLY on defense, where he was an average shot blocker most of his career and below average rebounder (comparatively).

Just my opinion.

[Th3ShowMVP]

There's not an accomplishment that Ewing has over Robinson, not one. I can think of tons that Robinson has over Ewing.

[ShaqAttack3234]

There's not an accomplishment that Ewing has over Robinson, not one. I can think of tons that Robinson has over Ewing.

Accomplishments? Yeah, Robinson beats Ewing in accomplishments.

But give me Ewing at his peak and for his career to build a team.

People forget that Ewing at his best was statistically similar to Robinson's best statistical season. He averaged 29/11/4 on 55% shooting and then 32/11 to beat the Celtics and he came back from down 0-2 with a 33/19 game 3, a 44/13/5/7 game 4 and a 31/8/10 game 5 to clinch the series on the Boston Garden. He also had a 45/13 game vs the Bad Boy Pistons in the next series.

In comparison, in Robinson's 30/11/5 season, he lost in the 1st round with home court and averaged just 20/10 on 41% shooting.

Ewing was the tougher player, better leader and he was more clutch.

[L.Kizzle]

Pat Wing

[Th3ShowMVP]

Ewing was the tougher player, better leader and he was more clutch.
I would like to know where you got that idea. Because when I watched those Knick team plays, they were out of control most of the time.

More clutch? Is that why he missed the game winning/tying (don't remember) layup against the Pacers in the playoffs?

[ShaqAttack3234]

I would like to know where you got that idea. Because when I watched those Knick team plays, they were out of control most of the time.

More clutch? Is that why he missed the game winning/tying (don't remember) layup against the Pacers in the playoffs?

Funny, you forgot his 24/22/7/5 game vs Indiana in game 7 of the ECF, his clutch game 6 vs the Bulls in '92 when he was injured to extend the series to a 7th game despite having an inferior supporting cast. Or an injured 37 year old Ewing outplaying a prime Alonzo Mourning in the deciding game in Miami in '99.

Ewing played with heart and toughness. He wasn't what I'd call a really smart player, but despite all of Robinson's physical gifts, he has few, if any truly memorable playoff moments and some notable choke jobs.

[AllenIverson3]

David Robinson

[Sarcastic]

If you just look at stats, most people would take Robinson. If you actually WATCHED them both play, most people would take Ewing.

[Th3ShowMVP]

Funny, you forgot his 24/22/7/5 game vs Indiana in game 7 of the ECF, his clutch game 6 vs the Bulls in '92 when he was injured to extend the series to a 7th game despite having an inferior supporting cast. Or an injured 37 year old Ewing outplaying a prime Alonzo Mourning in the deciding game in Miami in '99.

Ewing played with heart and toughness. He wasn't what I'd call a really smart player, but despite all of Robinson's physical gifts, he has few, if any truly memorable playoff moments and some notable choke jobs.
Oh so, now his missed layup will never be remembered anymore. :rolleyes: It's not as if Robinson never had dominant games in the playoffs either.

You gave me two games, I'm sure I could give you two games. Ewing was not better or greater than Robinson.

[Round Mound]

If you just look at stats, most people would take Robinson. If you actually WATCHED them both play, most people would take Ewing.

I saw them both play in their peeks and Ewing never reached the level D-Rob reached before injuries 1989-1996. EFF, PER and Statistical Plus/Minus (as also ORT and DRT) clearly says Robinson had more impact and was more efficient on both ends. I liked Pat more because he had more balls but D-Rob was way more talented and superior defensively

[KobeDaMamba]

Admiral easily. He showed up against Hakeem unlike Patrick "i shot 36% in the finals" Ewing. David was a lot more talented and athletic.

[Big#50]

DROB had bad playoff series' against teams that played him dirty. Only because the guy didn't have a mean bone in his body. When teams played straight up basketball he dominated. He had a great series against Portland in his rookie year. Taking the Blazers to game 7 and playing some of the best bball from a center since KAJ. He was down to Phoenix 2 to 1 in 93 and had like 38 and 17 in game 4. He had a lot of games where he played great even in the Houston series. Drob>Ewing all day. Give DROB Oakley, Harper and Mason and that team breaks all defensive records. DROB's only knock is he was nice. But he had speed, jumping ability, a sick shot, and could drive by anyone.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Admiral easily. He showed up against Hakeem unlike Patrick "i shot 36% in the finals" Ewing. David was a lot more talented and athletic.

Robinson showed up vs Hakeem? He was outscored by 11.5 ppg, outrebounded, had more turnovers, shot 45% compared to Dream's 56%, had about half as many assists and blocked about half as many shots.

Atleast Ewing battled defensively and outrebounded Olajuwon by about 3 per game. In fact, Ewing's defense on Olajuwon was pretty good and Dream was a little less productive than his season averages. You can see that the Knicks made Dream work and he was fatigued at points in that series.

[Big#50]

Robinson showed up vs Hakeem? He was outscored by 11.5 ppg, outrebounded, had more turnovers, shot 45% compared to Dream's 56%, had about half as many assists and blocked about half as many shots.

Atleast Ewing battled defensively and outrebounded Olajuwon by about 3 per game. In fact, Ewing's defense on Olajuwon was pretty good and Dream was a little less productive than his season averages. You can see that the Knicks made Dream work and he was fatigued at points in that series.
Surely Mason had nothing to do with it...

[DinoRadja40]

Pat Ewing Jr. of course!

[ShaqAttack3234]

Surely Mason had nothing to do with it...

Anthony Mason was very good defensively vs Olajuwon, but you have to give Ewing credit as well.

[Th3ShowMVP]

Robinson showed up vs Hakeem? He was outscored by 11.5 ppg, outrebounded, had more turnovers, shot 45% compared to Dream's 56%, had about half as many assists and blocked about half as many shots.

Atleast Ewing battled defensively and outrebounded Olajuwon by about 3 per game. In fact, Ewing's defense on Olajuwon was pretty good and Dream was a little less productive than his season averages. You can see that the Knicks made Dream work and he was fatigued at points in that series.
Last i checked, 45%>36%

[Big#50]

Anthony Mason was very good defensively vs Olajuwon, but you have to give Ewing credit as well.
Of course. But DROB had to do more against Houston. He had Rodman playing no defense and just trying to grab boards. DROB had to carry the load offensively as well.Being tired against Hakeem isn't going to work. DROB was better than Ewing. Hakeem played out of his mind against the softer one on one D the Spurs played. He didn't do that against the physical D Smith, Oakley, Ewing, and Mason played.

[Th3ShowMVP]

Admiral easily. He showed up against Hakeem unlike Patrick "i shot 36% in the finals" Ewing. David was a lot more talented and athletic.
Neither showed up against Hakeem.

[Th3ShowMVP]

[QUOTE=icemanfan]So league MVP Defensive, player of the year, scoring title, Quad Double (one of four players) all that plus they gave that to D Rob over Ewing because David was in a Huge market while poor Pat was stuck in tiny NYC market....poor guy. You have got to be ****ing kiding me.

This is Pat
11

[Shepseskaf]

Its Ewing, though Robinson was more talented physically.

If you were to ask the players in that era, they would probably laugh at the question. Robinson was not respected the way Ewing was, especially in the post-season.

[eliteballer]

Robinson was better, and CLEARLY better. Whether measuring quality of teamates, competition, team success, individual ability.

Everyone says how he got done up by Da Dream in 95, but his stats in that series were still SIGNIFICANTLY better than Ewings putrid showing against him in 94.

[Shepseskaf]

Robinson was better, and CLEARLY better. Whether measuring quality of teamates, competition, team success, individual ability.

Everyone says how he got done up by Da Dream in 95, but his stats in that series were still SIGNIFICANTLY better than Ewings putrid showing against him in 94.
The message you're missing is that stats can be misleading, and in this case, they are.

Ask any of the players in that era who they least like to face in the playoffs, and Ewing would win in a landslide.

[meh]

Personally, I'd go with DRob.

I say this based on the fact if we took out their performances against Hakeem and the Rockets in the mid-90s, I don't think this is even a discussion. But Robinson got slapped around like a little girl by Hakeem after getting his MVP trophy, and he never got past the whole "soft" label that would pretty much haunt him forever.

To me, one series, no matter how badly it went, cannot really define a player's career. And without that series, Robinson really does win by a solid margin simply based on his career performances.

[Th3ShowMVP]

Its Ewing, though Robinson was more talented physically.

If you were to ask the players in that era, they would probably laugh at the question. Robinson was not respected the way Ewing was, especially in the post-season.
The only time Ewing made an All-NBA first team was in 1990 and he made it simply because he played in NY.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Personally, I'd go with DRob.

I say this based on the fact if we took out their performances against Hakeem and the Rockets in the mid-90s, I don't think this is even a discussion. But Robinson got slapped around like a little girl by Hakeem after getting his MVP trophy, and he never got past the whole "soft" label that would pretty much haunt him forever.

To me, one series, no matter how badly it went, cannot really define a player's career. And without that series, Robinson really does win by a solid margin simply based on his career performances.

It wasn't just one series. He got knocked out in the 1st round in 1994 while averaging just 20/10 on 41% shooting and in 1996, he got knocked out in the 2nd round while averaging just 19/9 on 47% shooting.


The only time Ewing made an All-NBA first team was in 1990 and he made it simply because he played in NY.

Uh, no, he made it because he was the best center in the league. He averaged 29/11/4 and those 11 rebounds came while sharing rebounds with prime Charles Oakley, in 21 game swithout Oakley he averaged 30/12/3 on 56% shooting.

Go watch some games of Ewing in 1990. He was much better than the slower, older version I grew up watching in the mid 90's. He was quick, didn't settle for many long jumpers, he was mobile and he could run the floor very well. Plus, for some reason, his passing seemed better, perhaps because his quicker moves made him tougher to double.

Tell me when Robinson has ever done anything like this in the playoffs.

Down 0-2 and facing elimination vs the Celtics, this is what Ewing did.

Game 3- 33 points and 19 rebounds, he also had 12 points in the 4th quarter
Game 4- 44 points, 13 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks and 7 steals on 18/24 shooting
Game 5- 31 points, 8 rebounds, 10 assists and 4 blocks.

Then for good measure in those same playoffs, Ewing threw in 45/13/6/3 on 14/24 shooting vs the Bad Boy Pistons. He had 16 points in the 4th quarter on 5/7 from the field and 6/6 from the line.

[redhonda76]

The only time Ewing made an All-NBA first team was in 1990 and he made it simply because he played in NY.

You're one of these kids who never grew up and watch NBA in the 80s and 90s and based your opinions on stats and youtube videos. Obviously you do not know that NY runs a grind out offense, which attributes to Ewing's lower stats to Robinson's. Even Avery Johnson stated that he cannot trust David to lead them in the playoffs during the huddle. There is not one ex-Knicks player talks bad about Ewing when they left the team. Starks, Harper, Greg Anthony, Doc Rivers, Xavier McDaniels, all complimented and were blessed to played with Ewing during their runs. Even the vocal Oakley, never say any bad stuff about Ewing.

[Big#50]

It wasn't just one series. He got knocked out in the 1st round in 1994 while averaging just 20/10 on 41% shooting and in 1996, he got knocked out in the 2nd round whileee averaging just 19/9 on 47% shooting.



Uh, no, he made it because he was the best center in the league. He averaged 29/11/4 and those 11 rebounsds came while sharing rebounds with prime Charles Oakley, in 21 game swithout Oakley he averaged 30/12/3 on 56% shooting.

Go watch some games of Ewing in 1990. He was much better than the slower, older version I grew up watching in the mid 90's. He was quick, didn't settle for many long jumpers, he was mobile and he could run the floor very well. Plus, for some reason, his passing seemed better, perhaps because his quicker moves made him tougher to double.

Tell me when Robinson has ever done anything like this in the playoffs.

Down 0-2 and facing elimination vs the Celtics, this is what Ewing did.

Game 3- 33 points and 19 rebounds, he also had 12 points in the 4th quarter
Game 4- 44 points, 13 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks and 7 steals on 18/24 shooting
Game 5- 31 points, 8 rebounds, 10 assists and 4 blocks.

Then for good measure in those same playoffs, Ewing threw in 45/13/6/3 on 14/24 shooting vs the Bad Boy Pistons. He had 16 points in the 4th quarter on 5/7 from the field and 6/6 from the line.
Oh, no, he had monster games against a 37 year old Chief and his even slower back up joe Kleine.

[Dave_520]

Its Ewing, though Robinson was more talented physically.

If you were to ask the players in that era, they would probably laugh at the question. Robinson was not respected the way Ewing was, especially in the post-season.

I think that is a pretty ridiculous assessment. Even if the players picked Ewing ahead of Robinson, (doubtful) it wouldnt be a laughable event.

Give Robinson some respect.

[necya]

they are 2 great players, i love watchin the knicks and the spurs in 90-95.
they have had great duels , and have put some of the best stats line i've ever seen. they are both top 10 centers of all time.

i don't like how shaqattack argue cause you don't talk about when ewing was clearly absent of some important games in playoffs and forget the best games of Robinson in the playoffs as in his rookie year. do you remember this fantastic series against the finalists in 90?
it's difficult to compare their playoffs as the spurs met toughest teams in the 90's (western conf was like a lottery with all those great teams : sonics, jazz, spurs, rockets, suns) and the knicks went to the finals with only one big team the pacers in 94, and use to lose against the bulls

Ewing and robinson was used in different ways by the coach, Riley was very good but i think the spurs would be better if Brown had stayed as the coach. seriously, Lucas and Hill sucked.
Ewing was allowed to take 20 shots per game even if NY play tough defense with less points. on the other hand, robinson took less shot whereas his team needed more points from him at some times.

i remember that Robinson gave 35 more wins when he came into the league. (i can only Bird at the moment who has done has well) He
was always named in the first of second all nba team and all nba defensive team and use to beat shaq in their confrontations meanwhile ewing was a bit humiliated by shaq sometimes, letting him average 40pts.

but the 2 were so great, and deserved completely their selection in the dream team, the best team ever.

[Th3ShowMVP]

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]


Uh, no, he made it because he was the best center in the league./QUOTE]
Never was, never will be. Just like Dwight Howard.

[EarlTheGoat]

Uh, no, he made it because he was the best center in the league.
Never was, never will be. Just like Dwight Howard.


Dwight >>> Yao


*Awaiting RocketsGreatness to go on rage*

[ShaqAttack3234]

Never was, never will be. Just like Dwight Howard.

:oldlol: If Dwight wasn't the best center the last 2 years, then who was?

Yao didn't even play last year and in 2009? Dwight won more games and destroyed Yao statistically while making it to the finals.

And who was better than Ewing in 1990? Obviously I mean best center, not best player overall.

Regular Season
Patrick Ewing- 28.6 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 2.2 apg, 4 bpg, 1 spg, 3.4 TO, 55.1 FG%, 77.5 FT%, 45 wins
David Robinson- 24.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg, 3.9 bpg, 1.7 spg, 3.1 TO, 53.1 FG%, 73.2 FT%, 56 wins
Hakeem Olajuwon- 24.3 ppg, 14 rpg, 2.9 apg, 4.6 bpg, 2.1 spg, 3.9 TO, 50.1 FG%, 71.3 FT%, 41 wins


Robinson won more games, but he had Terry Cummings who averaged 22/8/3 on 48% shooting and Willie Anderson who averaged 16/4/4 on 49% shooting as well as better PG, he had Mo Cheeks who became NY's starting PG in the playoffs, but Robinson had him for 50 games and for the final 31 games, he had Rod Strickland who had been on NY's bench, but produced as a starter(14/4/8 for the Spurs)

Olajuwon won fewer games than Ewing with atleast a comparable cast, if not a better cast. He had Otis Thorpe(17/9/3, 55 FG%), Mitchell Wiggins(15/4/2, 49 FG%), Buck Johnson(15/5/3, 50 FG%) and Sleepy Floyd(12/2/7, 45 FG%).

Ewing's cast was Charles Oakley(15/12/2, 52 FG%), but Oakley missed 21 games, however the team was 36-25 with Oakley and after that? He basically had Gerald Wilkins during the season(15/4/4). Mark Jackson who was the Knicks starting PG was so bad that season that he was booed at Madison Square Garden and he was benched for the final 13 games of the season and the playoffs.

He was superior offensively to either, he scored about 4-5 more ppg and maintained superior efficiency. Blocks and assists were about equal to Robinson, and though he averaged 1 less rebound, he shared rebounds with a prime Charles Oakley. Here are Ewing's numbers in 21 games without Oakley.

29.8 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 2 apg, 3.3 bpg, 1.1 spg, 3.2 TO, 56.1 FG%

Playoffs
Patrick Ewing- 29.4 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2 bpg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 TO, 52.1 FG%, 82.3 FT%, 10 games
David Robinson- 24.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 2.3 apg, 4 bpg, 1.1 spg, 2.4 TO, 53.3 FG%, 67.7 FT%, 10 games
Hakeem Olajuwon- 18.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2 apg, 5.8 bpg, 2.5 spg, 2.8 TO, 44.3 FG%, 70.6 FT%, 4 games

Ewing was clearly the best center in the league that year.

[Th3ShowMVP]

:oldlol: If Dwight wasn't the best center the last 2 years, then who was?

Yao didn't even play last year and in 2009? Dwight won more games and destroyed Yao statistically while making it to the finals.

And who was better than Ewing in 1990? Obviously I mean best center, not best player overall.

Regular Season
Patrick Ewing- 28.6 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 2.2 apg, 4 bpg, 1 spg, 3.4 TO, 55.1 FG%, 77.5 FT%, 45 wins
David Robinson- 24.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 2 apg, 3.9 bpg, 1.7 spg, 3.1 TO, 53.1 FG%, 73.2 FT%, 56 wins
Hakeem Olajuwon- 24.3 ppg, 14 rpg, 2.9 apg, 4.6 bpg, 2.1 spg, 3.9 TO, 50.1 FG%, 71.3 FT%, 41 wins


Robinson won more games, but he had Terry Cummings who averaged 22/8/3 on 48% shooting and Willie Anderson who averaged 16/4/4 on 49% shooting as well as better PG, he had Mo Cheeks who became NY's starting PG in the playoffs, but Robinson had him for 50 games and for the final 31 games, he had Rod Strickland who had been on NY's bench, but produced as a starter(14/4/8 for the Spurs)

Olajuwon won fewer games than Ewing with atleast a comparable cast, if not a better cast. He had Otis Thorpe(17/9/3, 55 FG%), Mitchell Wiggins(15/4/2, 49 FG%), Buck Johnson(15/5/3, 50 FG%) and Sleepy Floyd(12/2/7, 45 FG%).

Ewing's cast was Charles Oakley(15/12/2, 52 FG%), but Oakley missed 21 games, however the team was 36-25 with Oakley and after that? He basically had Gerald Wilkins during the season(15/4/4). Mark Jackson who was the Knicks starting PG was so bad that season that he was booed at Madison Square Garden and he was benched for the final 13 games of the season and the playoffs.

He was superior offensively to either, he scored about 4-5 more ppg and maintained superior efficiency. Blocks and assists were about equal to Robinson, and though he averaged 1 less rebound, he shared rebounds with a prime Charles Oakley. Here are Ewing's numbers in 21 games without Oakley.

29.8 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 2 apg, 3.3 bpg, 1.1 spg, 3.2 TO, 56.1 FG%

Playoffs
Patrick Ewing- 29.4 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2 bpg, 1.3 spg, 2.7 TO, 52.1 FG%, 82.3 FT%, 10 games
David Robinson- 24.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 2.3 apg, 4 bpg, 1.1 spg, 2.4 TO, 53.3 FG%, 67.7 FT%, 10 games
Hakeem Olajuwon- 18.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2 apg, 5.8 bpg, 2.5 spg, 2.8 TO, 44.3 FG%, 70.6 FT%, 4 games

Ewing was clearly the best center in the league that year.
Yao has been, even while being injured. And Robinson and Hakeem have always and will always be better than Ewing. Always. Always,.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yao has been, even while being injured. And Robinson and Hakeem have always and will always be better than Ewing. Always. Always,.

How the hell was Yao better than Dwight last season? He didn't play a game!!

And if Yao was better than dwight in 2009, why did Dwight win DPOY, finish much higher in MVP voting(4th compared to 12th), why did Dwight average more points, rebounds and blocks while shooting a higher percentage in both the regular season and playoffs?

And how exactly were Robinson and Olajuwon better than Ewing in 1990?

[Th3ShowMVP]

How the hell was Yao better than Dwight last season? He didn't play a game!!

And if Yao was better than dwight in 2009, why did Dwight win DPOY, finish much higher in MVP voting(4th compared to 12th), why did Dwight average more points, rebounds and blocks while shooting a higher percentage in both the regular season and playoffs?

And how exactly were Robinson and Olajuwon better than Ewing in 1990?
The same way Yao Ming was better than Dwight Howard his entire career.

[ShaqAttack3234]

The same way Yao Ming was better than Dwight Howard his entire career.

In other words, you're wrong and have no argument.

[Th3ShowMVP]

In other words, you're right and have an argument.
agreed.

[ShaqAttack3234]

agreed.

I think you editing my post shows about how much of an argument you have left. Thank you for making my point.

[alexandreben]

The only time Ewing made an All-NBA first team was in 1990 and he made it simply because he played in NY.
:eek: :wtf: :facepalm