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GP_20

10-01-2009, 07:13 PM

I haven't seen a thread like this from anyone else. The 10 best defensive teams of all-time. Here we see 10 teams who were regarded as the best ever on defense.

This thread is more of an appreciation. These teams played defense like it was supposed to be played. All 10 great, and all 10 terrorized offenses when they came to face them.

Single year is listed, but this is more of all the years they were great, so below the full range is listed. So their peak year might be debatable, but those are the Top 10 defensive dynasties ever.

Top 10 Defensive Teams of All-Time

(No Order)

2004 Pistons
54-28

http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/hotbedhoops/medium_ben%20wallace.jpg

Detroit Pistons 2001-2008

Let's start out with one of the more obvious ones. The 2004 Pistons. With the Rasheed Wallace trade, this team took it to another level defensively. At one point they held 4 teams in a row to below 70 points. This is just insane and unheard of. They held 8 teams in a row below 80 points. They eventually won the championship this year with their amazing defense. Ben Wallace was the defensive anchor or this team, and he made them good at defense starting at 2001. He won 4 DPOYs while here in Detriot. They have continued to play good team defense since he has left though. Prince and Billups are 2 other good defenders here.

1970 New York Knicks
60-22

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/3/35/Frazier1.jpg

New York Knicks 1969-1974

Another All-Time Great defensive team. In 1970 they have a case of being maybe the best defensive team ever. They allowed only 106 points per game, and 2nd in place was back at 112ppg. They were actually more than 10 below the league average in points allowed. Who did they have? They had one of the All-Time best defending guards in Walt Frazier. They also had Dave Debbuschere, one of the best perimeter defenders. Lastly they had Willis Reed to top it all off. All 3 of these guys made it to All-Defensive 1st in 1970. They for sure were one of the best defensive teams in the league from 1969-1974.

1965 Boston Celtics
62-18

http://www.sportblogman.com/img/Bill_Russell.jpg

Boston Celtics 1957-1969

You can't have any defensive list without Bill Russell. Right when he first stepped in Boston in 1957, to when he stepped out in 1969, the Boston Celtics were a dominating defensive team led by Bill Russell the greatest defender of All-Time. There were many years (including the one listed) where they were first in shots attempted (fastest pace) yet also allowed the least points in the league. Imagine the Phoenix Suns playing at their pace yet allowing fewer points than the Celtics or Spurs. Besides for Russell, they had other star defensive players including KC Jones, Tom Sanders, Sam Jones, and John Havlicek.

1996 Chicago Bulls
72-10

http://www.topo.fi/pictures/1123099006-Rodman3.jpg

Chicago Bulls 1991-1998

The 1996 Bulls obviously are remembered to be one of the best ever defensively. 3 Players defined their defense. Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. All 3 arguably could be on the All-Time All-Defensive 1st team. All 3 of them in 1996 did make it to All-Defensive 1st. But their defensive dominance started even before 1996, with Pippen/Jordan in their primes, they were dominant on defense starting in the early 90s. Rodman just made them even better. It's because of their defense they won a record 72 games.

2005 San Antonio Spurs
59-23

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rVItnnrpuX0/RkyV6dJwTMI/AAAAAAAAABE/V2yxnIJcb7U/s320/suns+spurs+051607.jpg

San Antonio Spurs 1998-2009

Another defensive dynasty. It all started in 1998 when the Spurs drafted Tim Duncan. Since then they have been one of the best defensive teams of All-Time. From 1998-2003 the Twin Towers Duncan/Robinson dominated the paint defensively. From 2004-2008 Duncan/Bowen have made it tough for every team to get good looks when they play the Spurs. Their tough defensive style of play has won them 4 titles in the 1998-2008 span. In 2005 they might've peaked with both Duncan/Bowen making All-Defensive 1st as they held teams to a league low 884 points on just 42.6% shooting. Also rated the number one defensive team. Talk about dominance on defense.

1989 Utah Jazz
51-31

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fw7iF68JR8k/SRXC1X_C0KI/AAAAAAAAWh8/i7sERoD8f18/s320/mark-eaton.jpg

Utah Jazz 1985-1992

One of the more forgotten great defensive teams, the Utah Jazz of the 80s. With Defensive Monster Mark Eaton behind this team, the Jazz were one of the best defensive teams in the history of the game. Eaton, arguably the best shot blocker ever, was a dominant force inside that made teams think twice before coming at him. He won DPOY in 1989, while Stockton getting steals and making All-Defensive 2nd. They led the league in least points allowed and holding teams to the lowest FG%. They also were rated the top defensive team. So very dominant.

1990 Detroit Pistons
59-23

http://info.detnews.com/pix/blogs/newsmakers/Jordan%20rules.jpg

Detroit Pistons 1987-1993

You can't have a All-Time best defensive list without the Bad Boys in it. The Pistons no doubt were one of the best ever on defense. Dumars/Rodman led the way with Rodman winning multiple DPOYs and Dumars being one of the best defensive guards in history. Both were at their peaks defensively in Detroit. Then you had some fine defensive role players such as Edwards or Laimbeer with his dirty play. Their defense paid off as they won 2 titles in a row. They are also known for giving Michael Jordan his toughest time in his whole career.

1978 Portland TrailBlazers
58-24

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0610/nba08.jpg

Portland Trailblazers 1975-1978

Another forgotten great defensive team. The reason they couldn't stay very dominant for long was Bill Walton's health. They actually had a total of 4 players in the All-Defensive Teams. That record still stands. 3 of them made it to All-Defensive 1st. Bill Walton was the defensive captain, but then they also had Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins. Bob Gross was also a pretty good defender. Together they allowed the least points in the league and held teams to the lowest FG%. Though they didn't win the title in 1978, this team's defense did lead to one title in 1977. Still one of the greatest defensive teams ever.

2008 Boston Celtics
66-16

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0505/pg2_a_garnett_300.jpg

Boston Celtics 2008-2009

Its only been one year, but it was one of the best defensive teams this league has ever seen. Holding teams to 90.3 points (2nd), while playing some stingy defense that has held teams to a 41.9% shooting (1st). 2nd in place in FG% was at 43.3%. This team also knows how to force TOs, 3rd in the league in that category. Their defensive intensity was also one of the best seen, led by their DPOY Kevin Garnett. Not too many good defensive players around him, but he made all his players step up on the defensive including Pierce and Posey. And they got the job done when it counted as well as they won the title.

1994 New York Knicks
57-25

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r195/ckakos/Misc/Ewing_Garden_horizontal.jpg

New York Knicks 1992-2001

Another team that has a strong case for possibly being the greatest defensive team ever. Holding teams to just 91.5 points (10 below average), and the lowest FG% in the league, the Knicks were the top defensive rated team. They had some top notch defenders such as Oakley, Ewing, Harper, and Starks. They dominated the league in defense for 10 years and were rated number one for many consecutive years in the early to mid 90s. They were just one game away from winning the NBA Championship as well. Definately deserving of this list.

1987_Lakers

10-01-2009, 07:16 PM

Seems about right. Although I would replace the '90 Pistons with the '89 version.

Bigsmoke

10-01-2009, 07:18 PM

where are the 2009 Golden State Warriors at?

DuMa

10-01-2009, 07:21 PM

good list. very good list. Im happy with those teams.

GP_20

10-01-2009, 07:21 PM

Seems about right. Although I would replace the '90 Pistons with the '89 version.
Yeah like I said

Single year is listed, but this is more of all the years they were great, so below the full range is listed. So their peak year might be debatable...

Though the 1990 version allowed the least points in the league, holding them below 100. The 89 version was 2nd in points allowed. Same with FG%. The 90 Pistons were number #1 in that category, while the 89 Pistons were #2. Though both are great mentions and either would work. What's more important is the Bad Boys are there.

KenneBell

10-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Interesting. Only one team from the 80's, on the very tail end. Hmmm....

1987_Lakers

10-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Also, good call on the '78 Blazers. Didn't know that had 4 players on the All-Defensive Team. Bill Walton was a beast when healthy.

GP_20

10-01-2009, 07:26 PM

Interesting. Only one team from the 80's, on the very tail end. Hmmm....
Utah Jazz (85-92)?
Detroit Pistons (87-93)?

Both those teams were dominant defensive teams in that played great in the 80s.

robertshaw_1

10-01-2009, 07:38 PM

Perfect List.

Niquesports

10-01-2009, 08:21 PM

Utah Jazz (85-92)?
Detroit Pistons (87-93)?

Both those teams were dominant defensive teams in that played great in the 80s.
Not sure how or why the 70's Bulls got left off maybe there # 11 in your book.

GP_20

10-01-2009, 08:29 PM

Not sure how or why the 70's Bulls got left off maybe there # 11 in your book.
Yeah they were good too. Just not as good as any of the 10 teams listed above. A lot of nice honorable mentions.

L.Kizzle

10-01-2009, 08:34 PM

67 Sixers?

GP_20

10-01-2009, 08:48 PM

67 Sixers?
Um, this isn't the 10 Greatest Offensive Teams of All-Time...

They were good on defense, but nowhere near All-Time great.

goldenryan

10-01-2009, 09:37 PM

2008 celtics haven't been around long enough to be on the list. tho maybe having their new players catching on to playing good defense so quick is part of teams appeal.

GP_20

10-01-2009, 09:50 PM

2008 celtics haven't been around long enough to be on the list. tho maybe having their new players catching on to playing good defense so quick is part of teams appeal.
Still their 2008 season was one of the best ever seen by any defense. And they've had 2 now so it's not just a 1 year wonder.

robertshaw_1

10-01-2009, 09:55 PM

Gp, i think your list is perfect....but....could you put them in order?

Micku

10-01-2009, 10:10 PM

GP_20

10-01-2009, 10:15 PM

Good, good, but wasn't the Spurs the best team in the league with defensive in 2004?

I mean, they kept teams down to around 84.3 ppg (tie with the Pistons) and they hold them down to around 40.9% as oppose to the Piston's 41.3%? I guess they are a tie. But great list!

I could've gave it to either. I just gave it to the 2005 Spurs because they won the championship and were clearly the best defensive team that season. In 2004, the Pistons after they got Rasheed, were the best.

But all the Spurs defensive dynasty years are listed, and ultimately, that's what matters.

sirkeelma

10-01-2009, 10:18 PM

where are the 2009 Golden State Warriors at?

at 115th spot

GP_20

10-01-2009, 10:54 PM

Perfect List.
I know.

GP_20

10-02-2009, 12:17 AM

Gp, i think your list is perfect....but....could you put them in order?
I think that would be too tough

1987_Lakers

10-02-2009, 12:20 AM

I think that would be too tough

I've seen most of your top 10 threads and I think all of them are not in order, could you at least put your top 10 NBA teams of all-time in order?:D

GP_20

10-02-2009, 12:21 AM

I've seen most of your top 10 threads and I think all of them are not in order, could you at least put your top 10 NBA teams of all-time in order?:D
:no:

A lot, if not half, are in order....

I've ranked all Top 10 positions in order

clayton

10-02-2009, 12:34 AM

I like it.

ballinforkeeps

10-02-2009, 12:36 AM

rockets should be an honorable mention

since yao was on the team, they've been top 10 in defense. thats ****in good, thx yao, you injury prone bastard :waves fist angrily:

G.O.A.T

10-02-2009, 01:13 AM

GP_20

10-02-2009, 01:16 AM

Very Strong List

Honrable mention indeed for the Bulls of the 1970's as well as the Pacers in that '03-'05 era and the late 90's era Heat.

Might also make a case for the early 80's 76ers with Bobby Jones, Doc, Moses and Mo Cheeks on D.
Yes all these teams were considered. 70s Bulls, Early 70s Bucks, 80s Bucks, 80s Celtics, 00s Pacers, late 90 Heat, 90s Sonics, and yes also early 80s 76ers. All considered.

The 80s 76ers, though very talented defensively, never finished Top 3 in Defensive Rating or Points Allowed. Though they were still very good, they were not at an All-Time level like these teams defensively.

G.O.A.T

10-02-2009, 01:21 AM

Yes all these teams were considered. 70s Bulls, Early 70s Bucks, 80s Bucks, 80s Celtics, 00s Pacers, late 90 Heat, 90s Sonics, and yes also early 80s 76ers. All considered.

The 80s 76ers, though very talented defensively, never finished Top 3 in Defensive Rating or Points Allowed. Though they were still very good, they were not at an All-Time level like these teams defensively.

How did I forget the 80's Bucks. They like those 90's Sonics never had the big man nessacary to elevate their great defensive perimeters.

The Defesnive Rating and PA is the only weakness I find in this list. Meaning it's too predictable, I was not surprised by one team on the list, which means two things. 1) Well researched list 2) Little consideration for teams peaking defnesivley in the postseason or personal experience.

I wonder which of those teams you had the priledge of watching you'd rank highest or at least say you were most impressed with.

The Cavs under Fratello played pretty good D if I remember correctly too. Just throwing another name out there.

GP_20

10-02-2009, 01:30 AM

How did I forget the 80's Bucks. They like those 90's Sonics never had the big man nessacary to elevate their great defensive perimeters.

The Defesnive Rating and PA is the only weakness I find in this list. Meaning it's too predictable, I was not surprised by one team on the list, which means two things. 1) Well researched list 2) Little consideration for teams peaking defnesivley in the postseason or personal experience.

I wonder which of those teams you had the priledge of watching you'd rank highest or at least say you were most impressed with.

The Cavs under Fratello played pretty good D if I remember correctly too. Just throwing another name out there.

Well I didn't go purely on just how good their defensive rating was or how many points allowed. Those things were just used as strong support.

As you can see, most these teams were successful in the postseason as well. You have the Spurs dynasty, the 04 Piston's dominant defensive championship run, the Russell's Celtics dynasty, the Bad Boys, the 08 Celtics of course, Bill Walton's Blazers...I mean I could go on.

But point is 8/10 of these teams won a championship at some point in their dominant defensive runs. So most had strong postseason runs as well.

I don't remember much of the 89 Jazz, and I remember some parts of the 90 Pistons (this is when I first started watching the NBA), I remember everything after that, and before that I've only seen a few games of these teams playing.

But at the end of the day, I'm looking for the 10 best defensive teams. I don't care what criteria is used, PA, Def. Rating, Personal Observation, Postseason defense, etc. I just want the 10 best. And I think those are the 10 best.

G.O.A.T

10-02-2009, 01:37 AM

But at the end of the day, I'm looking for the 10 best defensive teams. I don't care what criteria is used, PA, Def. Rating, Personal Observation, Postseason defense, etc. I just want the 10 best. And I think those are the 10 best.

It's a solid top 10

Not a team that doesn't have as good or better case than any of those left out.

The Hammertime Pistpns top my list which is probably not surprising, but they get bonus points in my opinion because no other defense took down three very different and all-time elite offensive weapons as they did in the Showtime Lakers, the Larry Bird Celtics and of course Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

What do you think of that assesment?

GP_20

10-02-2009, 01:59 AM

It's a solid top 10

Not a team that doesn't have as good or better case than any of those left out.

The Hammertime Pistpns top my list which is probably not surprising, but they get bonus points in my opinion because no other defense took down three very different and all-time elite offensive weapons as they did in the Showtime Lakers, the Larry Bird Celtics and of course Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

What do you think of that assesment?
That 89 Piston team probably did have the best postseason defensive performance witnessed especially considering who they were up against. They also did have defensive star power led by Rodman and Dumars. So obviously a great choice.

I was really impressed by the 04 Pistons after they got Rasheed. For that period of time, their defensive performances were amazing. I mean, holding teams below 70 points on a daily basis? They did that 4 games in a row, and holding teams below 80 points 8 games in a row. :eek:
Like I've never seen anything like that. They did play in a slower pace, but that still is very amazing.

Spurs also have done a good job. Now they aren't as good, but with Bowen and Duncan in their primes, this team would be as good as they get on defense. Holding teams below 80s to low 80s would not be a tough task for them. They were fundamentally strong. One thing I like about them is how long they've played great defense. 1998-2009, basically all of Duncan's career. Got to give them longevity points.

Obviously the 90s Bulls have been good. They got really good after they got Rodman. Jordan-Pippen-Rodman, 3 of the best defenders ever, on the same team. Though they were all a little past their defensive peaks, they still played that swarming and tough defense. I remember, teams would get nothing easy against that team. Each shot you had to work for.

I could go on with many of the other's, but it seems all have a good case to be the GOAT.

IInvented

10-02-2009, 09:26 AM

didn't the 06 Grizzlies allow like 87 ppg?

GP_20

10-02-2009, 07:37 PM

didn't the 06 Grizzlies allow like 87 ppg?
It was almost 89ppg

G.O.A.T

10-06-2009, 12:14 AM

How abou the Sonics of '77 - '82; peaking in 1979 with the top defensive rating and lowest papg...oh and an NBA title.

Were they considered and why excluded?

phoenix18

10-06-2009, 12:17 AM

GP, left out the sonics.
I am beside myself.
I have seen it all.

GP_20

10-06-2009, 12:40 AM

How abou the Sonics of '77 - '82; peaking in 1979 with the top defensive rating and lowest papg...oh and an NBA title.

Were they considered and why excluded?
They were considered. And they weren't as good as the other 10. Great defensive team, but not good enough.

G.O.A.T

10-06-2009, 12:45 AM

They were considered. And they weren't as good as the other 10. Great defensive team, but not good enough.

We're the Jazz of the 80's ever the #1 ranked defensive rating and points allowed team?

I would think winning the title would propel them over the Jazz. As good as that team was defensively, I don't see the difference between them and the Bulls of the 70's (other than Eaton in the middle).

The Bulls were a win away from reaching the '75 finals and that could have totally changed the way they were remembered.

I just really think that Sonics team would crack my top 7.

GP_20

10-06-2009, 01:31 AM

We're the Jazz of the 80's ever the #1 ranked defensive rating and points allowed team?

I would think winning the title would propel them over the Jazz. As good as that team was defensively, I don't see the difference between them and the Bulls of the 70's (other than Eaton in the middle).

The Bulls were a win away from reaching the '75 finals and that could have totally changed the way they were remembered.

I just really think that Sonics team would crack my top 7.

Yes. In the year I have them listed, they were #1 in Points Allowed, #1 in FG% Defense, and #1 in Defensive Rating. Keep in mind this was in a very competitive year for those rankings, with the 89 Pistons also peaking. The 89 Jazz also featured DPOY Mark Eaton and All-Defensive 2nd member John Stockton. The Sonics just featured 1 All-Defensive Team member.

Let me tell you the Defensive Ratings finish for this team in their Top 5 years

85: 1st
86: 3rd
87: 1st
88: 1st
89: 1st

Truly amazing
:applause:

And just to give a quick comparison directly against the 79 Sonics. They held teams to 43% compared to the Sonic's 46%, in a league where average FG% was just one higher than the league in 79. And they also held teams to 4 points less than the 79 Sonics did, in a league were the average PPG was just 1 less than it was in 79. If you think about it, those are very significant. 4ppg would be the difference of points allowed between Boston and the 76ers last year. And 3% would be the difference between the best team in FG% last year versus the 20th best.

79 Sonics were great, but they just were not on the 80s Jazz level. It should be clear by now.

G.O.A.T

10-06-2009, 08:28 AM

Yes. In the year I have them listed, they were #1 in Points Allowed, #1 in FG% Defense, and #1 in Defensive Rating. Keep in mind this was in a very competitive year for those rankings, with the 89 Pistons also peaking. The 89 Jazz also featured DPOY Mark Eaton and All-Defensive 2nd member John Stockton. The Sonics just featured 1 All-Defensive Team member.

Let me tell you the Defensive Ratings finish for this team in their Top 5 years

85: 1st
86: 3rd
87: 1st
88: 1st
89: 1st

Truly amazing
:applause:

And just to give a quick comparison directly against the 79 Sonics. They held teams to 43% compared to the Sonic's 46%, in a league where average FG% was just one higher than the league in 79. And they also held teams to 4 points less than the 79 Sonics did, in a league were the average PPG was just 1 less than it was in 79. If you think about it, those are very significant. 4ppg would be the difference of points allowed between Boston and the 76ers last year. And 3% would be the difference between the best team in FG% last year versus the 20th best.

79 Sonics were great, but they just were not on the 80s Jazz level. It should be clear by now.

You've certainly made a valid case, but I still think the fact that Seattle won a title because of their defense without a superstar, puts them ahead of the Jazz. Still based on those numbers it's hard to argue tha inclusion of the Jazz.

One of the keys to their defensive excellence believe it or not was in their ability to hide Karl Malone, their worst defender. Forward Thurl Bailey was a long and athletic player who could guard the 3, 4 or 5. Always an underrated player and especially defender was Bailey.

HylianNightmare

10-06-2009, 09:15 AM

New York Knicks 1992-2001

Another team that has a strong case for possibly being the greatest defensive team ever. Holding teams to just 91.5 points (10 below average), and the lowest FG% in the league, the Knicks were the top defensive rated team. They had some top notch defenders such as Oakley, Ewing, Harper, and Starks. They dominated the league in defense for 10 years and were rated number one for many consecutive years in the early to mid 90s. They were just one game away from winning the NBA Championship as well. Definately deserving of this list.

[/CENTER]

yes
:bowdown:

GP_20

10-06-2009, 02:58 PM

You've certainly made a valid case, but I still think the fact that Seattle won a title because of their defense without a superstar, puts them ahead of the Jazz. Still based on those numbers it's hard to argue tha inclusion of the Jazz.

One of the keys to their defensive excellence believe it or not was in their ability to hide Karl Malone, their worst defender. Forward Thurl Bailey was a long and athletic player who could guard the 3, 4 or 5. Always an underrated player and especially defender was Bailey.
A championship requires more than defense. Sure defense was a key component, but great defense alone can't win you a championship. The Sonic's also had great team chemistry, and the competition for the title was not as much as it was in the late 80s.

Defense is about stopping the other team from scoring. The Jazz clearly did that better than the Sonics. Championships/Winning is factored too, but now when it's so clear they are better at stopping the opposition from scoring. They actually won just 1 less game in the regular season as well.

Niquesports

10-09-2009, 08:19 PM