Phil Jackson --- I'd start a franchise with Dwight over Lebron, Wade and Chris Paul

[Duncan21formvp]

Source: Sportsillustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/61661/index.html?eref=fromSI)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/photos/tx_jackson_phil.jpg




-- Dan asked Jackson who he would want to start a team with. Jackson said that power players are really the key to the NBA. He would take Dwight Howard over James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul if he was starting a team right now.



Almost midway thru the video he mentions it.

Interview with Phil Jackson - The Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/listenlive.player.html?file=http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/danpatrick/audio/2009/04/15/DP-Phil_Jackson-04-15-09_Interview.mp3)

[magnax1]

interesting. Dwight brings more defense, but can't carry an offense yet. I'd take Wade, then Lebron, then Dwight.

[kurple]

i wouldn't

[PistonsFan#21]

I told you guys this coach is overrated...He just proved he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he forgot to mention that he would probably pick Dwight over Kobe too

[elementally morale]

I told you guys this coach is overrated...He just proved he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm sure you know a lot more about basketball than Phil Jackson. Guy knows nothing and you've just exposed the living sh!t outta him.

:applause:

[iamgine]

It's reasonable to take the best big man available first.

[phoenix18]

Doesnt matter how much you know, you can still be wrong and Phil has been wrong a lot. You make it seem that his immense amount of knowledge exempts him from being wrong. Now with that said, I would start my franchise with CP3 or Wade.

[beasted86]

I wouldn't, but considering the lack of centers I wouldn't bash a GM for doing so either. He's younger than all those guys also. So even more logic to such a pick.

[All Net]

I told you guys this coach is overrated...He just proved he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he forgot to mention that he would probably pick Dwight over Kobe too

:oldlol: Yet you know more? you are likely some spotty teenage kid. What would you know?

[elementally morale]

Doesnt matter how much you know, you can still be wrong and Phil has been wrong a lot. You make it seem that his immense amount of knowledge exempts him from being wrong. Now with that said, I would start my franchise with CP3 or Wade.

That's nice. Feel free to work yourself into the position of being able to start your franchise with anybody you feel like.

And of course, PJ can be wrong as everyone else. However, questioning his take without reasoning and saying he knows nothing and this is just further proof... you have to be really young to even try to take it seriously.

Chances are good the man's knowledge exceeds yours in basketball.

[phoenix18]

That's nice. Feel free to work yourself into the position of being able to start your franchise with anybody you feel like.
First of all, this was just stupid. Isnt that what Phil was doing in this hypothetical situation? A fantasy draft where you could choose whoever you want to start a franchise? You're so smart.:oldlol:


And of course, PJ can be wrong as everyone else. However, questioning his take without reasoning and saying he knows nothing and this is just further proof... you have to be really young to even try to take it seriously.
Not all young people are stupid. Its about time people here stop stereotyping people because of their age. Ignorance is every age group.

Secondly, I did not take his comment seriously nor did I agree with it. Its just a common trend on ISH whenever someone criticizes a GM, some buffoon says that he knows more about basketball than you. As if that wasnt obvious.


Chances are good the man's knowledge exceeds yours in basketball.
Just like this quote right here. I am sure he knows more than all of us, does that make him untouchable? If that was the case, that if someone knew more than us we could not criticize them, we would not have the word criticize in the dictionary.
:applause: This post: Relevance:2/10 Stupidity:9/10

[RoseCity07]

I'd start with Lebron.

[All Net]

PJ stating that was likely down to the fact Dwight is

The youngest of the lot
a big man who can play great defense, rebound and block shots.
is only going to improve offensively

Obviously I would pick Lebron but could see why he would pick Dwight. Picking Wade would be very risky at this stage of his career and given his past injury trouble.

[elementally morale]

Not all young people are stupid.


Of course not. But the ones running their mouths the way you run yours usually are. Not my problem though. Keep doing it, after all in a strange way you are entertaining.

[Carbine]

Once Dwight learns to control the game from the post (I hope he learns how to, anyway) he'll be one of the dominant big men to ever play the game because everything else that the great big men do is there for him already.

LeBron might be the exception of the big man over the small player rule, we'll see how it works out.

It's not crazy to take Dwight though. He's probably going to go on to be this generations best big man and one of the most defining players of the era.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Even though I'm a big believer of the big man first theory, I'd pick Lebron over anyone, but Dwight would be my 2nd pick

At just 23 years old he's accomplished the following

Won the defensive player of the year award
Led his team to two 50 win seasons(52 and 59 wins, respectively.)
Led his team to the finals
Set the record for blocks in a finals game
Led the league in rebounding twice(as well as blocks one year becoming one of only 5 players in NBA history to lead the league in both categories).
Finished top 5 in MVP voting twice(4th last year)

He's a general managers dream because he's extremely durable(missed just 3 games in 5 years) and he'll only get better. I can't even list all of the things that he was the youngest in history to do.

[Skyscraper]

no he has a point.


Dwight led his team to 1 Finals win

Wade led his team to a title but he did have a POWER PLAYER next to him (not saying he rode Shaq's coattails. but everyone agreed that year that Shaq brought them to the Finals. Wade finished the deal)

Lebron led his team to 0 Finals wins

Chris Paul? Don't people see Otis Smith's master plan when he traded for Vince Carter? go all in now... but he has a bigger pot than everyone else at the table because once Carter's contract expires... that cap space.... the same time Paul is a free agent... ahh......

[Carbine]

I think everyone would take LeBron over the current Dwight, but Dwight has one huge part of the game where he can develop, and that's controlling the game from the post....while LeBron can really only improve his "feel" of the game at this point because his post game looks forced and unnatural.

Once, and perhaps if, Dwight can control the game from the post with consistent success (and this doesn't just mean scoring) he'll be hard to top.


And I also think LeBron might age a bit more in terms of his effectiveness on the floor once he loses a step. I don't invision him developing the type of post game that Jordan did later on, and that was the key to Jordan still being dominant in his later days when he wasn't as fast/quick.

So the more I think of it, Dwight seems to be the pick.... but only if he keeps improving his ability to control the game from the post. That's the last thing he's missing that all the great bigs (Duncan, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc) had.

[moe94]

He can define whatever the hell he wants. He simply does not impact the game the way LeBron does. Not even close.

[Carbine]

You're stupid.

[josh99]

Even though I'm a big believer of the big man first theory, I'd pick Lebron over anyone, but Dwight would be my 2nd pick

At just 23 years old he's accomplished the following

Won the defensive player of the year award
Led his team to two 50 win seasons(52 and 59 wins, respectively.)
Led his team to the finals
Set the record for blocks in a finals game
Led the league in rebounding twice(as well as blocks one year becoming one of only 5 players in NBA history to lead the league in both categories).
Finished top 5 in MVP voting twice(4th last year)

He's a general managers dream because he's extremely durable(missed just 3 games in 5 years) and he'll only get better. I can't even list all of the things that he was the youngest in history to do.
This.

[josh99]

Chris Paul? Don't people see Otis Smith's master plan when he traded for Vince Carter? go all in now... but he has a bigger pot than everyone else at the table because once Carter's contract expires... that cap space.... the same time Paul is a free agent... ahh......
Haha nice. When does CP3's contract expire?

[Micku]

He likes centers more than perimeter players. You do more with elite centers with team basketball. The position that Jackson is taking right here hasn't changed. He made a similar comment before. To him centers are the most valuable, I think.

[josh99]

I think everyone would take LeBron over the current Dwight, but Dwight has one huge part of the game where he can develop, and that's controlling the game from the post....while LeBron can really only improve his "feel" of the game at this point because his post game looks forced and unnatural.

Once, and perhaps if, Dwight can control the game from the post with consistent success (and this doesn't just mean scoring) he'll be hard to top.


And I also think LeBron might age a bit more in terms of his effectiveness on the floor once he loses a step. I don't invision him developing the type of post game that Jordan did later on, and that was the key to Jordan still being dominant in his later days when he wasn't as fast/quick.

So the more I think of it, Dwight seems to be the pick.... but only if he keeps improving his ability to control the game from the post. That's the last thing he's missing that all the great bigs (Duncan, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, etc) had.
Another good point.

[hwliuLAP]

he may also just means big men are easier to build around.

It's going to be easier to build around a strong defensive big man, than to build around a freakish SF, and with that, it's make sense to pick a dominant big man to START your franchise.

[King Baron]

It's actually amusing because Jeff Van Gundy sounded kind of bitter last year when talking about Phil winning with great players.

Yet Jeff and his brother have had the two best big men in the NBA, and Phil values that most.

I'd take Lebron if I was a gm btw.

[lukekarts]

There are plenty of reasons why he'd pick Dwight to start a franchise:

1. He's the most dominant big-man in the league
2. The gap between him and the next best (Yao excluded) is pretty significant
3. He's durable
4. He has potential to improve more (which Jackson obviously sees)
5. It is easier to build a team around a big-man (there are more good quality shooters than big-men in today's NBA)

We've seen how hard it is to build a team around LeBron, demonstrated by Cleveland's failings. And Wade, great as he is, is a risk due to the injuries he has received.

Dwight is a sensible choice and one I'd probably make myself.

[sipitri]

First watch what Lebron is doing with a bunch of roleplayers, then choose.
I will choos Dwight over CP3 and maybe over Wade too (You're right with both).

[ShaqAttack3234]

1. He's the most dominant big-man in the league
2. The gap between him and the next best (Yao excluded) is pretty significant


Duncan is still better than Yao.

[NotYetGreat]

Honestly, I think that he's right, to some extent. Really good big men are VERY hard to come by, if you haven't already known (just a little sarcasm here). If you just put in an above average point guard and some other okay-solid role/bench players, then I think they could be on the winning side of things. Maybe not championship material, but they could make it to the playoffs easily/consistently. I don't know why, but it seems harder to win if the only really good player is one other than a big.

[godofgods]

Phil is the most overrated coach of all time.

[vinsane01]

I concur phil.:D Its easier to build a team around dwight than bron. You can pretty much just surround him with 3pt shooters and a few slashers and that team can make the finals easily in the eastern conference. :D Building around a SF/SG is harder IMO, even with lebron.

The only way i choose bron over dwight is when he decides to play the post game. Which we might see this season btw.

[ZaaaaaH]

Building a franchise player around a Big is much easier then around a guard.

Too hard to pass on LeBron

1. LeBron -24
2. Dwight -23
3. Wade -27

Dwight is underrated on his offense. This year he will make noise for sure.

[ZaaaaaH]

I concur phil.:D Its easier to build a team around dwight than bron. You can pretty much just surround him with 3pt shooters and a few slashers and that team can make the finals easily in the eastern conference. :D Building around a SF/SG is harder IMO, even with lebron.

The only way i choose bron over dwight is when he decides to play the post game. Which we might see this season btw.


yup but now they will be alright since they got Shaq. I would never count out Shaq if I was on the East.

[phoenix18]

It's actually amusing because Jeff Van Gundy sounded kind of bitter last year when talking about Phil winning with great players.

Yet Jeff and his brother have had the two best big men in the NBA, and Phil values that most.

I'd take Lebron if I was a gm btw.
FAIL. JVG had T-mac and Yao with no help at all.

[allball]

Phil is 100% full of $hit.

[LA_Showtime]

1. Dwight Howard is a damn good player.

2. This is Phil Jackson, for all we know he could be trying to motivate Kobe (not like Kobe lacks motivation).

[Joey3000]

Notice how Phil Mentioned a whole Bynch of swingmen who are arguably all on the same level, yet how many Bigmen young Bigmen would you take over howard today?

Phil Knows that it is easier to build around a player like Dwight then it is to build around a swingman.

Out of all the pg/sg/sf's he named, you can put anyone of them with dwight and that team will be more dominant than most other combinations of any of the players mentioned.

[King Baron]

FAIL. JVG had T-mac and Yao with no help at all.
:oldlol: what? That wasn't a slight on the Van Gundy's coaching abilities. Just find it intresting Phil would state he'd rather have a team built like the Magic/Rockets, almost a direct reply to Jeff's "he's only won because he had great players".

Btw, just because you started this up, It was Tmac who said its all on me, then proceeded to be blown out by the Mavs. Baron did the Mavs without a superstar center. I guess that means Bdiddy/JAX>>>TMAC/YAO. I'm not even sure if i'm trolling anymore.

[New Jazzy Nets]

And people think he is the GOAT of coaching? Choosing D12 over Lebron, Wade, Paul?

[NotYetGreat]

And people think he is the GOAT of coaching? Choosing D12 over Lebron, Wade, Paul?

Dude, you really have to consider the times now. Big men are horrible. Good ones are so rare. As for Bron, Wade, etc., there are a lot of other athletic guys who can score at will. A big man who can just impose his will in the paint is hard to come by. And he said as a basis for a team. He didn't say that Dwight was a better individual player than Bron or Wade or Paul.

[Meticode]

Phil Jackson --- I'd start a franchise with Dwight over Lebron, Wade and Chris Paul

Kind of surprised he said that considering every team he's ever coached has always had that dominate wing player. And his first 6 championship he had players like Horance Grant, Bill Winnington, Luc Longley, etc.

[goldenryan]

i think RG took a sick day off school after listening to this video. :D
i once said dwight would have a better career than lebron i'd say it's 50/50 now.

[Harison]

Its not the brightest thing Phil said, but then again - its time for him to retire :rolleyes: Probably Phil wouldnt have taken Jordan over Mutombo either :oldlol:

[BallersTalk]

Phil plays mind games. Don't take his 'opinions' seriously until he's retired. Then he'll tell you the real story.

[Pinkhearts]

This is just a simple case of supply and demand. The price of a player might be higher due to market forces, even though his value isn't necessarily higher.

Yeah you can take Lebron. He's probably the better player. But you still need to get a center to play with him. Who do you get? 38 year old Shaq? And after he retires? It'll be very difficult to snap up even a decent center like Bogut or Biedrins who aren't even all stars.

With Dwight, you need to get a swingman to play with him. Even right now you could probably trade for Sjax which will make a decent pairing. Magic just traded for VC who is much better than geriatric Shaq is now. And they could have gotten RJ, kept Hedo...tons of options available. More supply of swingmen = easier to get good quality at a low price = easier to build a better team. So you take that rare big man who's good if you can.

[thejumpa]

Who Phil forgot to mention is Kobe.....

Makes sense though. At this point in time, it's harder to build success around LeBron that it is around Howard. Get the big man, and then get a LeBron-esque SF/SG around him (Stephen Jackson is perfect).

[MrUnstopable]

This is just a simple case of supply and demand. The price of a player might be higher due to market forces, even though his value isn't necessarily higher.

Yeah you can take Lebron. He's probably the better player. But you still need to get a center to play with him. Who do you get? 38 year old Shaq? And after he retires? It'll be very difficult to snap up even a decent center like Bogut or Biedrins who aren't even all stars.

With Dwight, you need to get a swingman to play with him. Even right now you could probably trade for Sjax which will make a decent pairing. Magic just traded for VC who is much better than geriatric Shaq is now. And they could have gotten RJ, kept Hedo...tons of options available. More supply of swingmen = easier to get good quality at a low price = easier to build a better team. So you take that rare big man who's good if you can.
This... Do people realize that Howard made it to the Finals as HEDO TURKOGLU as their ball handler!?!?!??!?!?!?!

[visirale]

And people think he is the GOAT of coaching? Choosing D12 over Lebron, Wade, Paul?
Ok, how about you be their coach next year.

As many have stated, it's much easier to build around a dominant center who can anchor your defense and clog up the paint. There are far more serviceable wing players than serviceable centers.

I hope over the next few years Orlando gets an influx of ring-chasing veteran wing players to come play with Dwight during his prime. It could be an exciting time. In 2012 Rashard and Vince Carter are off the books and we will have cap room to spare.

[Bigsmoke]

i'd start a frachinse with Lebron without a trace of a doubt in sight

[ChuckOakley]

Phil plays mind games. Don't take his 'opinions' seriously until he's retired. Then he'll tell you the real story.

Exactly.

For a coach who has won all his titles with dominant wing players such as Kobe, Jordan, Pippen to say he would pick Dwight, is just mind rape.

[Darius]

I'd have to disagree with Phil here.

Dwight hasn't proved he can score consistently on double teams.

Give me LBJ.

[PistonsFan#21]

Exactly.

For a coach who has won all his titles with dominant wing players such as Kobe, Jordan, Pippen to say he would pick Dwight, is just mind rape.

Well Shaq did contribute the most for 3 of his rings. And Jordan is the greatest of all time so he contributed for 6. Now the qestion is which comparison is closer? Lebron to Jordan or Dwight to Shaq?

[barbaroi]

Dwight is good for 20 points, 15 rebounds, and defensive domination every game. He led his team to the finals THROUGH Lebron. I'd take Dwight too.

[Carbine]

Dwight hasn't proved he can score consistently on double teams.

Why would you need to prove this? If you're taking shots when you're double teamed, it's for the worse...not the best.

He needs to learn how to control the game from the post more consistently, not score when doubled.

[Rocker09]

I would pick lebron but I kinda understand Phil's pick....It's quite rare to find good pure centers nowadays....Dwight does what a center should(rebound and block shots)

[lefthook00]

It's really hard to find a great, physical center. Much easier to build around. He didn't say Dwight was better.

[23ajay]

no because dwight howard can not produce enough offense otherwise it would not be a bad choice because he is young and he is very good on defense.

[Harison]

Yeah you can take Lebron. He's probably the better player. But you still need to get a center to play with him. Who do you get? 38 year old Shaq? And after he retires? It'll be very difficult to snap up even a decent center like Bogut or Biedrins who aren't even all stars.
I would easily take Lebron with someone like Perkins, than Dwight with some decent wing. If everything is comparable, you take big over small, but Lebron isnt = Dwight, heck he isnt even small per se.



With Dwight, you need to get a swingman to play with him. Even right now you could probably trade for Sjax which will make a decent pairing. Magic just traded for VC who is much better than geriatric Shaq is now. And they could have gotten RJ, kept Hedo...tons of options available. More supply of swingmen = easier to get good quality at a low price = easier to build a better team. So you take that rare big man who's good if you can.
You would be right if you are comparing all-star players, in this case we are comparing easily the best player in the NBA (and I dont like Lebron, so no homerism) with a good center, its like Jordan vs Ewing... or more like difference is even bigger than that, Ewing was at least good offensively too.

[Pinkhearts]

I would easily take Lebron with someone like Perkins, than Dwight with some decent wing. If everything is comparable, you take big over small, but Lebron isnt = Dwight, heck he isnt even small per se.

Well you don't know how well Lebron and Perk will work out do you? Personally I don't see how Perkins will change your game plan against Lebron. You still double him and keep him from charging into the paint if you can and make him shoot jumpers. Perkins doesn't add any offense so it wouldn't change much defensive plan wise. We've already seen how Dwight+ Rashard + Hedo can beat out Lebron + Z, so I will give the magic setup the benefit of doubt. Lastly, players of Perk's caliber do not lie around cheaply...how are you gonna get someone like Perk to join the Cavs?


You would be right if you are comparing all-star players, in this case we are comparing easily the best player in the NBA (and I dont like Lebron, so no homerism) with a good center, its like Jordan vs Ewing... or more like difference is even bigger than that, Ewing was at least good offensively too.

No, it doesn't matter if the player is the best player or just an all-star. All that matters is the talent disparity between players. Using Jordan-Ewing is a poor example as Jordan is the GOAT (greater talent than Lebron) while Ewing never had a good sidekick for us to measure him with. The problem here is that it is not possible for us to quantify a player's talent, or we should be able to see how it works out clearly.

For arguments sake let's pretend we are playing an ultra realistic video game. All the players' abilities are quantified into a rating. The best team will have the best rating of all the players added up. We will forgo team chemistry here as that is another story.


So you can have:
Dwight 90 + Hedo 80 + Rashard 85 = 255.

Or you can have:
Lebron 95 + Big Z 75 + Mo 80 = 250

So here the Magic is slightly better. If the Magic wants an upgrade, they have easier time trying to get players like VC or Sjax or whoever that will lead to a higher rating score. Cavs on the other hand is going to have a hard time upgrading on the center position. Z only contributes 75 to the overall score and frankly you aren't gonna get much better for that position in a trade.

Remember, I am not saying that Dwight is better. In fact, I'd probably pick Lebron myself and pray that some all star center falls on my lap one day. Highest SF rating + High Center rating = unstoppable. However, you have to understand that the probability of that happening is lower than getting an all-star to pair with Dwight. So while I would like to take the gamble for a more exciting prospect, a seasoned coach like Jackson might not and wants more assurance that he can win now.

[flipogb]

its simple Dwight doesn't play Kobe's position, so that means no comparisons will be made and they wont ask him any further questions.

[spree43]

Though Lebron is the best, what does he contribute that Howard doesn't?

Most notably, he handles the ball ... get yourself a point guard

He scores from the perimeter ... get a decent swingman

and so on ...

There are plenty of players that can contribute one or two aspects that Lebron does (excluding the presence of having one player that does it all obviously)

But Lebron contributes everything, so you don't need these players, he covers the roles of about 3 people on the court

But Howard provides size, a real offensive post threat and he controls the paint defensively ... who else in the league gives you that?

Plus Phil probably thinks he can get the best out of Howard, make him a great post player etc.

[lakerfreak]

I told you guys this coach is overrated...He just proved he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he forgot to mention that he would probably pick Dwight over Kobe too

Its his personal opinion. Just like how you think he's overrated. 10 rings isn't overrated.

Fail

[ShaqAttack3234]

And people think he is the GOAT of coaching? Choosing D12 over Lebron, Wade, Paul?

Why would he choose Wade over Howard? Wade is 27 and he's missed 97 games in his 6 year career, that's an average of more than 16 games per season. Howard is 4 years younger and he's missed just 3 games in his 5 year career. Plus Howard has more room for improvement and as everyone has mentioned it's easier to build around a dominant big man. The only time Wade won anything was when he played with a superstar big man.

As far as Chris Paul? What has he done that Howard hasn't? They've both led the league in major categories, finished high in MVP voting and won 50 plus games, but Howard has taken his team 2 rounds farther. And once again it's easier to build around a dominant big man. Plus what areas of Paul's game can he really improve? Dwight can improve his post game, passing and free throw shooting.

[EricForman]

what happened to the bosh fans who argued bosh was better/equal to dwight just two years ago?

anyway, i totally understand dwight over wade becuase of age/size. but really if my life is on the line and its a game 7 and Dwight is representing me vs Wade I'd be peeing in my pants.

But there is no excuse for Dwight over Lebron. None. Not from a actual basketball standpoint or from a marketing standpoint.

You guys wanna say Dwight has done all of what Lebron has done. But that's a flaw in logic because Dwight's had better teammates.

Lebron's cast up until two months ago has been average at best (last year's Cavs team has to be the worse 2 through 12 team to win more than 65 games. Hell, 62 games. Look it up and find me a worse 2-12 roster that won that many games) and the years before that (from 04 to 07) Brons cast was straight BAD.

Lebron's also his team's best player, by far, on maybe 99% of the games he's played. Can you say that about Dwight? How many times have we seen nights where Dwight go 11 and 12 while Hedo or Shard drops 33 and 8? I don't have stats to back this up but a realistic guess is Dwight is the best player on his own team maybe 70-80% of the games he has played in. Lebron is 99.9%.

[Pinkhearts]

But there is no excuse for Dwight over Lebron. None. Not from a actual basketball standpoint or from a marketing standpoint.

You guys wanna say Dwight has done all of what Lebron has done. But that's a flaw in logic because Dwight's had better teammates.

Lebron's cast up until two months ago has been average at best (last year's Cavs team has to be the worse 2 through 12 team to win more than 65 games. Hell, 62 games. Look it up and find me a worse 2-12 roster that won that many games) and the years before that (from 04 to 07) Brons cast was straight BAD.

Lebron's also his team's best player, by far, on maybe 99% of the games he's played. Can you say that about Dwight? How many times have we seen nights where Dwight go 11 and 12 while Hedo or Shard drops 33 and 8? I don't have stats to back this up but a realistic guess is Dwight is the best player on his own team maybe 70-80% of the games he has played in. Lebron is 99.9%.

Here's one thing you guys fail to realize. Basketball is a team game.

No one here is arguing that Dwight is better than Lebron. Anybody with a brain can see that Lebron is currently better. The point here is that with Dwight, you can easily build a better team that you beat Lebron's team with.

You said Lebron's team is bad. Why is it so bad? After all these years? One of the problems is that Lebron is not as easy to build with. He handles the ball alot, so you don't need/want a typical point guard. It's tough to find a good fast center to play with him. And if you can't add a scoring guard who needs the ball as Lebron will be holding it all the time.

So what if Dwight goes 11 and 12? It's his play style that allows him to get doubled in the middle, freeing up Hedo and Roids to hit open 3s. All you gotta do is to find good shooters to pair up with Dwight and you're gold. And you can add a ballhog to the team as Dwight can't handle it. And you know how many talented ballhogs there are in this league...they'll love it. His play style also compensates for many weaknesses too. I guarantee you if Roids was playing for another team as a PF, he will be labeled soft and useless as he has zero post presence. But he's an all-star now since Dwight is doing all that low post work for him. Soft players are a dime a dozen nowadays and a tough post presence are rare.

Again, no one will fault you for taking Lebron as he is the better player. I have no doubt in my mind that if I can pick any players from the NBA to form a team, Lebron is the best pick as he will form the best team if I can add all the best players to play with him. However it will certainly be easier to build a winning team around Dwight. A GM just has to work alot harder if you have Lebron, but you can certainly form a better team than a Dwight team. Kupchak pulled it off getting Gasol for Kobe, and now they're near unstoppable. But good luck to you trying rape another team for Gasol, I will certainly bet my money on something like VC for expirings and Lee to happen first.

[Carbine]

Of course there is an excuse for picking Dwight.

LeBron is basically a finished product right now. The only thing he can ideally improve on is his post game, but that part of his game will probably never surface because his movements and moves look forced down there.

Dwight, on the otherhand, has the chance to become one of the dominant big men to ever play. He has all the tools/impact that the Duncans, Kareems, Shaqs, Hakeems all had....except for controlling the game from the post.

You take him over LeBron is you feel he can develop that part of his game to the point of it being a consistent base to run an offense through. If history is ANY indication for players of that caliber, chances are you're going to win multiple titles with him.

Since the 80's Kareem won a few titles as the best player on his team. Shaq won three straight. Duncan has four as the best player. Hakeem has two rings.

Rings tend to follow these type of players.

Is it a sure thing that Dwight learns to control the game from the post? Nope...but if you believe he will, it's not stupid at all to take him over LeBron.

[DCpup]

^^^^^Pretty much...

Lebron right now is about as good as he's going to be. Sure there are things he can fine tune in his game, but don't expect any major improvements to his game.

Dwight on the other hand, is a top 5 player just with his defense and athletic ability on the offensive end. He has a very limited post game; and overall, his offensive game has room for improvement. If he were to develop that part of his game, he'd be the best in the league hands down.

[Mechanixxxx]

I understand where Phil is comming from with this, If you put a dominant big man in the triangle offense your foundation its pretty much set.

[thejumpa]

I don't think LeBron is as good as he is going to be right now. LeBron with a consistent, successful post game would be deadly.

Lebron's chances of developing a better post game are as good as Dwights. Normally, I would say the Center has the better chance but Dwight has been in the league for about the same time and we haven't seen the improvements yet...

[barbaroi]

People are underestimating just how good Dwight is. Since 1979 only 4 players have ever had a season of 20+ ppg/ 14+ rpg. Barkley did it once, Hakeem did it once, Moses Malone did it four times, and Dwight Howard has done it once ( and also just barely missed it last year with 13.8 rpg) . And he had the second highest block rate of those 7 seasons. People focus on his limited offense, but the guy puts up 21 ppg even with a limited offense, and his defense and rebounding more than make up for the 6 or 7 ppg you lose from picking Dwight over LeBron. All that isn't even taking into account how much easier it is to build around Dwight.

[lilgodfather1]

LeBron can play 4 positions on the court while Dwight can play 2. Normally you would take the big man to start a franchise, but there are about four players in history that you would take over big men to start a franchise. Magic, Bird, Jordan and LeBron make up that list for me, of course you wouldn't take them over Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, KAJ, Russell, Duncan but over Ewing, Dwight, and other players of that category you take those four players over them. It is easier to build around a dominant C, but if you have the most dominant wing in the game it is easy to build around him as well. LeBron isn't near a finished product, neither is Dwight.

LeBron + Biedrins is better than Dwight + Carter and you take the first combo every time.

[barbaroi]

LeBron + Biedrins is better than Dwight + Carter and you take the first combo every time.
I don't know about that... Dwight + Turkoglu was better than Z+ Lebron, and Z put up 13/8 to Biedrins' 12/11. That's really not all that big a difference.

[lilgodfather1]

I don't know about that... Dwight + Turkoglu was better than Z+ Lebron, and Z put up 13/8 to Biedrins' 12/11. That's really not all that big a difference.
But Biedrins can play D better than Z can because he is more athletic.

[Cool Guy]

People are underestimating just how good Dwight is. Since 1979 only 4 players have ever had a season of 20+ ppg/ 14+ rpg. Barkley did it once, Hakeem did it once, Moses Malone did it four times, and Dwight Howard has done it once ( and also just barely missed it last year with 13.8 rpg) . And he had the second highest block rate of those 7 seasons. People focus on his limited offense, but the guy puts up 21 ppg even with a limited offense, and his defense and rebounding more than make up for the 6 or 7 ppg you lose from picking Dwight over LeBron. All that isn't even taking into account how much easier it is to build around Dwight.

I just had to emphasize this bold part. Time and time people fail to realize that he has averaged 20 points the last two season. Its mind boggling how people overlook this. Sure his post moves are limited, but so what? He is still getting 20 points a game. Points are points right? As long as you score, in any way shape or form it should all be good right?

Im just saying, and like everyone else, hes putting up points with limited post moves. Eventually he'll get it down. I mean, for a player like him, hes only going to get better.

I dont understand the hate on D12. I guess when anyone falls into the category of "Superstar", they will get bashed on, etc, etc a la Kobe and Lebron.


LeBron + Biedrins is better than Dwight + Carter and you take the first combo every time.

Bierdrins doesnt even play for the Cavs so how can you make a statement like that?

[lilgodfather1]

I just had to emphasize this bold part. Time and time people fail to realize that he has averaged 20 points the last two season. Its mind boggling how people overlook this. Sure his post moves are limited, but so what? He is still getting 20 points a game. Points are points right? As long as you score, in any way shape or form it should all be good right?

Im just saying, and like everyone else, hes putting up points with limited post moves. Eventually he'll get it down. I mean, for a player like him, hes only going to get better.

I dont understand the hate on D12. I guess when anyone falls into the category of "Superstar", they will get bashed on, etc, etc a la Kobe and Lebron.



Bierdrins doesnt even play for the Cavs so how can you make a statement like that?
I know he doesn't lol. But an all star caliber big + LeBron is better than an all star small with Dwight.

[White Chocolate]

You build your team around big men. If you go back all the way to 1991, just about every championship team was built around a big man(Dream, Duncan, Shaq, Big Ben is questionable) with the exception of Chicago.

[Cool Guy]

Well, you can say that, but Lebron hasnt really played with an All Star big. I guess you can say Big Z, but he last played in the 2005 ASG and has been on the decline.

Shaq should definitely put better numbers than Z, or at least more productive.

We wont find out whos the better combo, until season starts.

Lebron-Shaq and VC-Howard?

[FinalCountdown]

Phil Jackson is the King at Mind rape. You all fail at life, if you took him seriously.

Dwight Howard is hardly A top 10 player in this league, you really think Jackson would actually take Howard over those guys? Please. Let him be better than Garnett, Dirk, Yao or Duncan first.

[White Chocolate]

Garnett

33 now and quite possibly may not be the same player compared to his first season in Boston.



Dirk

Hard to build around a 7 foot jump shooter that plays minimal D.



Yao

Would be the ideal choice if he could stay healthy.



Duncan

He's also 33 now. Dwight is the most logical choice. Going to be 24 and a defensive powerhouse.

[Rashard]

Phil laying the ground work for 2012 when Howard can opt out and become a free agent. Letting it be known how he values what a young big like Howard can bring to a team. Howard seems to love the Hollywood lifestyle and Jackson loves Howard as a player. Could be a match made in heaven.

[lilgodfather1]

Phil laying the ground work for 2012 when Howard can opt out and become a free agent. Letting it be known how he values what a young big like Howard can bring to a team. Howard seems to love the Hollywood lifestyle and Jackson loves Howard as a player. Could be a match made in heaven.
If Phil is still coaching in three years I will dedicate my life to the Lakers and I will never post on ISH again.

[Rashard]

If Phil is still coaching in three years I will dedicate my life to the Lakers and I will never post on ISH again.

You never know. Things could be going well for Phil and the Lakers and he may still be around. If he's not coaching, my guess is he will still have an active role within the Lakers orginization.

[lilgodfather1]

You never know. Things could be going well for Phil and the Lakers and he may still be around. If he's not coaching, my guess is he will still have an active role within the Lakers orginization.
That is a possibility, but I thought there were rumbles of him retiring this season. I can't see him hanging around for another 3 years of coaching, 4 actually because in order to coach Dwight it would be 4.

[spree43]

People don't understand the concept of team basketball

With a Lebron team you're looking at half your plays being "get the ball to lebron and get out of the way"

Compare that to the spurs when they beat the cavs

They had a guy who can run the offense and penetrate and dish (Parker)
An perimeter scoring threat (ginobli)
A perimeter defender (Bowen)

With the exception of Parker 1 or 2 times, none are allstars, or high drafts picks

Sure Lebron does all that, but when they shut him down what happened?

And you can't say that if you replaced Duncan with Lebron they would have dominated, because Parker and Ginobli would be useless with Lebron out there

Give me prime Duncan, Olajuwon or any of the great post players of recent times, a great coach, my choice of the Eurotrash not playing the NBA and some time to gel

and I'll give you a team that would beat last years cavs in a playoffs series

[Extempo]

Phil Jackson has more bball knowledge than all the losers in this topic combined. Y'all are nobodies, he is the greatest coach of all time. He knows talent when he sees it and he knows how to utilize players the right way. When it comes to taking someone's word...it will always be his word over anyone else. I know for sure that outta this group, Dwight has the best shot (and will probably be the first player) to win a championship.

[ConanRulesNBC]

I wonder who he'd pick between prime Michael Jordan and prime Shaq.

[Lebron23]

You never know. Things could be going well for Phil and the Lakers and he may still be around. If he's not coaching, my guess is he will still have an active role within the Lakers orginization.


Phil Jackson is 65 yrs.old. He's going to retire after the Blazers or Spurs beat the Lakers in the playoffs.

[Pinkhearts]

LeBron + Biedrins is better than Dwight + Carter and you take the first combo every time.

Again, how are you going to get Biedrins to join your team? Or Perk? Or even Tyson Chandler? Centers are so highly valued that teams are going to hold on to them tightly. You aren't getting a prime Biedrins, you can only get old washed up ring chasers to play center for you.

On the other hand, if you have Dwight, you can easily trade for VC, RJ, Sjax...many many talented swingmen available to join your team.

[EricForman]

Here's one thing you guys fail to realize. Basketball is a team game.

No one here is arguing that Dwight is better than Lebron. Anybody with a brain can see that Lebron is currently better. The point here is that with Dwight, you can easily build a better team that you beat Lebron's team with.

You said Lebron's team is bad. Why is it so bad? After all these years? One of the problems is that Lebron is not as easy to build with. He handles the ball alot, so you don't need/want a typical point guard. It's tough to find a good fast center to play with him. And if you can't add a scoring guard who needs the ball as Lebron will be holding it all the time.

So what if Dwight goes 11 and 12? It's his play style that allows him to get doubled in the middle, freeing up Hedo and Roids to hit open 3s. All you gotta do is to find good shooters to pair up with Dwight and you're gold. And you can add a ballhog to the team as Dwight can't handle it. And you know how many talented ballhogs there are in this league...they'll love it. His play style also compensates for many weaknesses too. I guarantee you if Roids was playing for another team as a PF, he will be labeled soft and useless as he has zero post presence. But he's an all-star now since Dwight is doing all that low post work for him. Soft players are a dime a dozen nowadays and a tough post presence are rare.

Again, no one will fault you for taking Lebron as he is the better player. I have no doubt in my mind that if I can pick any players from the NBA to form a team, Lebron is the best pick as he will form the best team if I can add all the best players to play with him. However it will certainly be easier to build a winning team around Dwight. A GM just has to work alot harder if you have Lebron, but you can certainly form a better team than a Dwight team. Kupchak pulled it off getting Gasol for Kobe, and now they're near unstoppable. But good luck to you trying rape another team for Gasol, I will certainly bet my money on something like VC for expirings and Lee to happen first.

I understand where you're coming from and trust me I'd definitely agree with Dwight over say prime AI or prime Vince or prime Ray Allen.

but this is Lebron we're talking about. What he's shown so far, isn't just another superstar. He's shown that he's on path to the Jordan/Kobe tier of wing.

[EricForman]

i have a question to all those defending phil's words and saying that "yeah it's easier to start with dwight cause he's a dominant defensive big and all that".

So going by what you guys are saying, does that mean you guys would take Dwight over ANYONE in the league right now?

And also, considering Dwight's numbers and youth. Going by you guys' logic, there's really only maybe 5 or 6 players int he history of the league that would go before Dwight (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, DRob, maybe two more)

So are you guys saying in the history of the league, Dwight is the 6th or 7th best guy to start a team with?

[ZaaaaaH]

Why would he choose Wade over Howard? Wade is 27 and he's missed 97 games in his 6 year career, that's an average of more than 16 games per season. Howard is 4 years younger and he's missed just 3 games in his 5 year career. Plus Howard has more room for improvement and as everyone has mentioned it's easier to build around a dominant big man. The only time Wade won anything was when he played with a superstar big man.

As far as Chris Paul? What has he done that Howard hasn't? They've both led the league in major categories, finished high in MVP voting and won 50 plus games, but Howard has taken his team 2 rounds farther. And once again it's easier to build around a dominant big man. Plus what areas of Paul's game can he really improve? Dwight can improve his post game, passing and free throw shooting.

This is simple way to explain

LeBron Or Howard cant go wrong

[Chick_Hearn]

easier to build around a solid big man then it us around lebron or wade.

[Pinkhearts]

i have a question to all those defending phil's words and saying that "yeah it's easier to start with dwight cause he's a dominant defensive big and all that".

So going by what you guys are saying, does that mean you guys would take Dwight over ANYONE in the league right now?

And also, considering Dwight's numbers and youth. Going by you guys' logic, there's really only maybe 5 or 6 players int he history of the league that would go before Dwight (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, DRob, maybe two more)

So are you guys saying in the history of the league, Dwight is the 6th or 7th best guy to start a team with?

Well you have to put yourself in the shoes of a coach.

No doubt having Lebron will give you the highest potential to get the best team, but do you have the patience to wait for it to work?

Mike Brown has Lebron for so many years and he endured nothing but criticism.

Chances are if you are a noob coach, you will want someone easy to build around so you can get results quickly and establish yourself fast. If you wait around for an all-star center to play with Lebron to win, you might already be sacked by then.

Or if you're an old coach looking for one last hurrah. You don't want to take on a project Lebron team. You want to amass as much talent as you can quickly can get your ring. If you see that you can get an all-star swing with Dwight now you immediately go for it. Only pick Lebron if you see that you can get a center for him quickly.

[PleezeBelieve]

:roll: :roll: :roll: @ this thread going on seven pages due to people arguing why its okay to take Howard over LeBron.

Only on ISH.

[NotYetGreat]

i have a question to all those defending phil's words and saying that "yeah it's easier to start with dwight cause he's a dominant defensive big and all that".

So going by what you guys are saying, does that mean you guys would take Dwight over ANYONE in the league right now?

And also, considering Dwight's numbers and youth. Going by you guys' logic, there's really only maybe 5 or 6 players int he history of the league that would go before Dwight (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, DRob, maybe two more)

So are you guys saying in the history of the league, Dwight is the 6th or 7th best guy to start a team with?

Pretty much. After a very dominant big man, all you'll need are shooters that could also play defense, and you have a pretty good team already.

[lilgodfather1]

Pretty much. After a very dominant big man, all you'll need are shooters that could also play defense, and you have a pretty good team already.
But you don't even need that with LeBron. He lead a team of Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, Big Z, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic to the finals. Of those players the only good three point shooters are Boobie and Pavs. The only good defensive players are Pavs, Snow and Hughes. The only real scoring threats are Big Z and Hughes. Howard needed a team that had 2 additional 17 PPG scorers (3 in the regular season at one point), solid defensive players, and they still barely won the series despite the 4-2 total.

[Duncan21formvp]

I wonder if Phil still believes this. I think with recent events he may be correct.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I told you guys this coach is overrated...He just proved he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he forgot to mention that he would probably pick Dwight over Kobe too

lets forget that Kobe is 33 entering his 16th season

[The Iron Fist]

Phil Jackson is 65 yrs.old. He's going to retire after the Blazers or Spurs beat the Lakers in the playoffs.
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/177/c/8/2010_NBA_CHAMPIONS_LA_LAKERS_by_YaDig.jpg

[JaskoX1]

It's reasonable to take the best big man available first.
Yao is retired though.

[SpecialQue]

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/177/c/8/2010_NBA_CHAMPIONS_LA_LAKERS_by_YaDig.jpg

I cannot stop laughing at Pau's face.

[Miller for 3]

Jordan'sBulls stop bumping your old threads. Go back to realgm:facepalm

[NBAller]

After watching Howard play in the finals, I would too. If he gets doubled in the post he can just kick it out to a shooter, and if he doesn't he can big man whoever's guarding him and most likely draw a foul. He already brings the defense.

[inclinerator]

doubt he still thinks this way

[Human Error]

Phil has been wrong a lot of times. He said that the Spurs would win the championship over the Heat in 6 games.

[moe94]

The zen master, huh?

[russwest0]

Phil has been wrong a lot of times. He said that the Spurs would win the championship over the Heat in 6 games.

Wow he was so close with that prediction tho

[Mr. Jabbar]

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4872/9ree.png

[OldSkoolball#52]

doubt he still thinks this way


At the time this was at least reasonable. Dwight was considered a top 3 player and was presumably going to continue improving. Obviously Phil was sticking to the principle that you gotta take bigs first.

Obviously now four years later we can see Dwight has already peaked and will never be reliable on offense. But at the time that was impossible to know.

[G-train]

Wasn't a ridiculous thing at the time, Dwight has suffered injuries since.

[moe94]

Wasn't a ridiculous thing at the time, Dwight has suffered injuries since.

Taking Howard over LeBron is a ridiculous statement at any time.

[outbreak]

I think this was around the time he added his first semi reliable post moves and looked like he would actually improve on offence too. Never really refined his post game though.

[Jameerthefear]

yeah i mean it wasn't too ridiculous (i would never take dwight over lebron) but dwight was the only player who was even close to lbj's impact.

[MavsSuperFan]

Well now we know Phil would suck as a GM

[kamil]

I'm sure you know a lot more about basketball than Phil Jackson. Guy knows nothing and you've just exposed the living sh!t outta him.

:applause:

:roll:

[D-Wade316]

yeah i mean it wasn't too ridiculous (i would never take dwight over lebron) but dwight was the only player who was even close to lbj's impact.
False. Wade and Dirk just as had the same impact. The four of them are the absolute best players for 2010-2011 for sure.

[Ai2death]

Remember, Phil would be drafting him fresh, He would probably help shape him a lot differently than what he has become.

[bond10]

Where you at Pauk? Come defend your boy.

[moe94]

Remember, Phil would be drafting him fresh, He would probably help shape him a lot differently than what he has become.
:oldlol:

[PJR]

:roll:


Note to all NBA teams, don't hire Phil as your basketball czar. He's no Pat Riley.

[pauk]

Wade & CP3? Maybe i can somewhat see the argument...

But Lebron....

[russwest0]

Where you at Pauk? Come defend your boy.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Marchesk]

I'd take Tyson Chandler over Lebron.

[iTare]

Phil probably thought he could turn Dwight into a Shaq/Jordan player (domination wise). Guarantee you he doesn't think that now; Dwight has proven to be a choker and a baby.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Probably the dumbest statement he's ever made. I take all the other guys on intangibles alone compared to that clown ass Dwight Howard. I mean, Dwight is the least dependable of the group. And peak for peak, he's probably like the 2nd or maybe even 3rd best of the group. Without his once godly athleticism, a bad back, there is a few more guys I'd start a franchise with over Dwight.

[Maindi]

Probably the dumbest statement he's ever made. I take all the other guys on intangibles alone compared to that clown ass Dwight Howard. I mean, Dwight is the least dependable of the group. And peak for peak, he's probably like the 2nd or maybe even 3rd best of the group. Without his once godly athleticism, a bad back, there is a few more guys I'd start a franchise with over Dwight.
You do realize that the interview was made in '09 right?

[moe94]

And peak for peak, he's probably like the 2nd or maybe even 3rd best of the group. Without his once godly athleticism, a bad back, there is a few more guys I'd start a franchise with over Dwight.

09 Wade > peak Howard
08 Paul > peak Howard

Dead last.

[SamuraiSWISH]

You do realize that the interview was made in '09 right?
Stupid then too. Wade's 2009, following his healthy 2006, and 2007 campaigns. LeBron's 2008, and 2009. Chris Paul's 2008, and 2009? Dwight was NEVER that good. Even if you wanted to compare the numbers, his intangibles clearly ring short of all of those guys.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Take it with a grain of salt. He probably means "If I have Kobe, I'd want Dwight as my second option out of that group".

Everyone knows that out of that group, LeBron is the best player to start a franchise with and it's not even close at all.

[HylianNightmare]

phoenix18 was a great poster

[AintNoSunshine]

Might as well just say "despite I have been a hof coach but I'm a retard"

[The JKidd Kid]

No GM in their right mind would have drafted Wade or CP3 over him, but Lebron... PJ has really lost it in his old age.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He probably said this right before playing them in the finals. I doubt he really means this.

[redboy]

he probably expected D12 to get better after his great '09 season. it's hard to find talented 2 way players than can anchor both a defense and an offense and i can see where phil is coming from

the only problem is that since 11, dwight has only gotten worse and worse. he's always blaming others for mistakes and is clearly unwilling to improve his game. after almost a decade in the nba, dwight still does not have a go to post move nor can he shoot a free throw.

[Lebron23]

That's why eric spoloestra is smarter than this guy.

[TheCorporation]

It's reasonable to take the best big man available first.

It's not reasonable when LeBron James is in the league and available. Especially since we know about D12's work ethic. If he was a harder worker and mentally tough like Kobe, maybe. But he isn't.

[The JKidd Kid]

It's like people forget how absolutely DOMINANT Dwight was on both ends of the floor.

[moe94]

It's like people forget how absolutely DOMINANT Dwight was on both ends of the floor.

Better than LeBron? Or Wade after his GOAT season?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/489/307/27b.jpg

[The JKidd Kid]

Better than LeBron? Or Wade after his GOAT season?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/489/307/27b.jpg

Lebron? No. Wade? Arguably.

[1987_Lakers]

lol

[TheCorporation]

I'd take Tyson Chandler over Lebron.

Damn. Trolling since 2013. Meanwhile, look at me in 2013 and what you made me become:




It's reasonable to take the best big man available first.

Me in 2013:
It's not reasonable when LeBron James is in the league and available. Especially since we know about D12's work ethic. If he was a harder worker and mentally tough like Kobe, maybe. But he isn't.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe couldnt even make the playoffs with DHOWARD.. Meanwhile Harden was making the playoffs in that tough western conference with CHANDLER PARSONS AND JEREMY LIN as his second and third options. :roll: :banana:

[Smoke117]

Wade & CP3? Maybe i can somewhat see the argument...

But Lebron....

No surprise Pauk was stupid enough to say something ridiculous like this. Dwight never came close to having the impact of Wade or CP3.


Probably the dumbest statement he's ever made. I take all the other guys on intangibles alone compared to that clown ass Dwight Howard. I mean, Dwight is the least dependable of the group. And peak for peak, he's probably like the 2nd or maybe even 3rd best of the group. Without his once godly athleticism, a bad back, there is a few more guys I'd start a franchise with over Dwight.

lol And Coach being a dumb ass, too. Dwight never had close to the peak of a Wade or CP3. He never had the kind of impact they had carrying teams. That you actually believed this in 2013...jesus. :biggums:

[TheCorporation]

No surprise Pauk was stupid enough to say something ridiculous like this. Dwight never came close to having the impact of Wade or CP3.



lol And Coach being a dumb ass, too. Dwight never had close to the peak of a Wade or CP3. He never had the kind of impact they had carrying teams. That you actually believed this in 2013...jesus. :biggums:

Coach is a strange fellow, I think he just gets confused sometimes :confusedshrug:

[NBASTATMAN]

No surprise Pauk was stupid enough to say something ridiculous like this. Dwight never came close to having the impact of Wade or CP3.



lol And Coach being a dumb ass, too. Dwight never had close to the peak of a Wade or CP3. He never had the kind of impact they had carrying teams. That you actually believed this in 2013...jesus. :biggums:


whatever happened to that guy PAUK? Hope he is doing well.. I may go after people on the board but I realize this is just a game and hope every one on this board is doing well .. :rockon:

[TheCorporation]

whatever happened to that guy PAUK? Hope he is doing well.. I may go after people on the board but I realize this is just a game and hope every one on this board is doing well .. :rockon:

I echo these sentiments.

It's just basketball no matter how gay 3ball is I still love him and everyone else :rockon:

[superduper]

Kobe couldnt even make the playoffs with DHOWARD.. Meanwhile Harden was making the playoffs in that tough western conference with CHANDLER PARSONS AND JEREMY LIN as his second and third options. :roll: :banana:

Except they made the playoffs you fkin moron :roll:

[nashwade]

makes sense only if you don't know the outcome, like pick a player to start a franchise before they even play one NBA game - picking Dwight isn't wrong

[1987_Lakers]

makes sense only if you don't know the outcome, like pick a player to start a franchise before they even play one NBA game - picking Dwight isn't wrong

No, picking Dwight over LeBron to start a franchise even in 2009 is flat out dumb. LeBron in 2009 showed us how dominant he can be, he was having MJ like impact on the court at the age of 25. Dwight on the other hand led his team to the Finals that year, but was seen as a big man with limited offensive skill. LeBron even then was seen as a once in a generation type of player, Dwight not so much. Picking Dwight over LeBron just shows you how out of touch Phil Jackson became as he aged.

[34-24 Footwork]

Except they made the playoffs you fkin moron :roll:

This. Lol @ the stans bumping 10 year old Kobe/Laker threads. Yikes.

[PJR]

LMAO Phil Jackson is a massive idiot who was stuck in the 90

[ArbitraryWater]

It's reasonable to take the best big man available first.

this idiot, lol

[GimmeThat]

Master the age comparison first, it's easy to build around the rest with journeyman or players hadn't been in the playoffs.

Or Phil Jackson was onto something we didn't know, the falsely awarded MVPs that created the imbalance in the league.