View Full Version : When you throw the ball off the board to yourself for a dunk/layup..rebound or assist
Apparently someone, won't name names thinks that's an assist when it's proven and 3/4 of the world knows that it's a missed shot + rebound
What is it?
AlThornton
10-21-2009, 04:43 PM
Apparently someone, won't name names thinks that's an assist when it's proven and 3/4 of the world knows that it's a missed shot + rebound
What is it?
Well its not a missed shot if you miss on purpose IMO. Don't know what the rulebook says.
Showtime
10-21-2009, 04:45 PM
It's not a FGA if it's just tossed off the board, and you can't assist yourself. So it's neither.
Spoken
10-21-2009, 04:46 PM
Not a rebound? Ricky Davis tried to throw the ball of the glass to himself to record a triple double and they didn't count it haha.
Well its not a missed shot if you miss on purpose IMO. Don't know what the rulebook says.
It was in the play by play that it's a missed shot. When T-Mac did it in the ASG, it was counted as a missed shot and rebound. Kobe did it last and they clarified it was a missed shot and rebound.
You can't get a SELF assist in basketball
Jesus christ....
Not a rebound? Ricky Davis tried to throw the ball of the glass to himself to record a triple double and they didn't count it haha.
It didn't count as a missed shot because he threw it off his own net. How can you get an offensive rebound on your net? It obviously wasn't defensive since he shot it.
C'mon... are you guys being serious right now?
Knowledgable fans...please discuss.
beasted86
10-21-2009, 04:49 PM
Not a rebound? Ricky Davis tried to throw the ball of the glass to himself to record a triple double and they didn't count it haha.
I think the rule book is specific about your own basket.
Otherwise it would have been a rebound.
Lyoto15
10-21-2009, 04:51 PM
Obviously you cannot assist yourself, but being the guys miss intentionally I just can't count it as a rebound or a shot attempt.
So my vote goes for neither.
If i could, I would give myself the assist and a rebound:P
I think the rule book is specific about your own basket.
Otherwise it would have been a rebound.
Exactly. Anyways, self assists don't count and don't exist. If you guys were watching the game last playoffs when Kobe did it, Doug explained that it's a missed shot and rebound.
InspiredLebowski
10-21-2009, 04:53 PM
Probably a bit of scorekeeper discretion on if he wants to make it a missed FGA and board or just nothing. Definitely wouldn't be an assist though.
OneMoreSucka
10-21-2009, 04:53 PM
CantStop's plan backfiring :roll: :roll: :roll:
Ha! I was right.
04:16 Bryant Layup Shot: Missed
04:14 Bryant Rebound (Off:2 Def:4)
04:14
[LAL 104-90] Bryant Putback Layup Shot: Made (40 PTS)
http://www.nba.com/games/20090506/HOULAL/playbyplay.html
Look at the time of the video and the time on the play by play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3f6b3tVchY
OneMoreSucka takes an L. HARD
Haha
OneMoreSucka
10-21-2009, 04:57 PM
So just because ONE SCOREKEEPER let him have it, it's now allowed??? :roll:
Why do I even bother...
So just because ONE SCOREKEEPER let him have it, it's now allowed??? :roll:
Why do I even bother...
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
When idiots go on.....
Please, what's next? When it comes from Stern's mouth, it won't count either.
I provided a link. Where's you link that says self assists count?
OneMoreSucka
10-21-2009, 05:05 PM
I never said a single word about self assists so I don't know why you're trying to put words in my mouth now.
The nba rule states: "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into the basket for a field goal."
Kobe didn't attempt to shoot the ball, therefore no rebound or field goal attempt should've been rewarded. That's why this is on the SCOREKEEPER and his dumb ass for thinking otherwise.
Game set and match, I'll wait.
elementally morale
10-21-2009, 05:08 PM
In FIBA I think it's a rebound only if it hits the rim. I'm not sure about now, but back when I was playing this was the rule. In FIBA. As for the NBA... I think it shouldn't have counted as a rebound, it was clearly a self-assist (not counted as an assist).
It might have been counted as one, but I don't like the call. It was on purpose, it didn't hit the rim and it was not a shot attempt.
Whatever.
beasly15
10-21-2009, 05:12 PM
it's just a pass.
Phenith
10-21-2009, 06:34 PM
It really shouldn't be counted as anything.
phoenix18
10-21-2009, 06:46 PM
See Bob Sura against the Hawks when he tried to get a triple double.
50inchvertical
10-21-2009, 09:30 PM
It's really more at the discretion of the scorekeeper. You either get the missed fg and rebound then made fg, or just nothing at all but the fg.
It's really more at the discretion of the scorekeeper. You either get the missed fg and rebound then made fg, or just nothing at all but the fg.
Not really. All scorekeepers do that. It was explained many times by annoucers during games. Do you think they hire scorekeepers without teaching them rules?
[Chad]: Come on SON! [Ocho Cinco]
I guess not everyone knows the rules because the team they support don't have an athletic monster like Kobe that does this at least twice a season and therefore making the announcers explain.
AznBBoyX
10-21-2009, 09:40 PM
Dude, give it up. It counts as neither. And the play doesn't happen that often so if the scorekeeper records it as a miss and rebound, then they are wrong.
goldgrill4me
10-21-2009, 09:42 PM
Section XI-Field Goal Attempt
A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal. The act of shooting starts when, in the official's judgment, the player has started his shooting motion and continues until the shooting motion ceases and he returns to a normal floor position. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. The term is also used to include the flight of the ball until it becomes dead or is touched by a player. A tap during a jump ball or rebound is not considered a field goal attempt. However, anytime a live ball is in flight from the playing court, the goal, if made, shall count, even if time expires or the official's whistle sounds. The field goal will not be scored if time on the game clock expires before the ball leaves the player's hand.
straight out of the nba rulebook. what kobe did was not a field goal attempt. therefore there can't be a rebound. whether or not a stat keeper made a mistake on that game is irrelevant. understood?
InspiredLebowski
10-21-2009, 09:50 PM
Scorekeepers rarely go by the rule book verbatim. Look at the home/road splits of a lot of players. There was a big writeup about it awhile back from someone with contact with a former scorekeeper, I think for Seattle.
G-train
10-21-2009, 09:53 PM
I believe its a violation in FIBA. I'll check the NBA rule book.
I believe its a violation in FIBA. I'll check the NBA rule book.
I'm pretty sure it is. FIBA has some ridicilous rules like being able to touch the ball and snatch it off the rim when a player shoots.
Showtime
10-21-2009, 10:29 PM
Scorekeepers rarely go by the rule book verbatim. Look at the home/road splits of a lot of players. There was a big writeup about it awhile back from someone with contact with a former scorekeeper, I think for Seattle.
Is that about the guy intentionally padding Nick the quick's assist numbers? Yeah, it's all up to the scorekeeper as to what he feels like that night.
Is that about the guy intentionally padding Nick the quick's assist numbers? Yeah, it's all up to the scorekeeper as to what he feels like that night.
You have no say in this. People that get laughed off messageboards and threaten posters about beating them up through PM's should never be taken seriously. I :roll: everytime I see your name. What a coward
reppy
10-21-2009, 10:34 PM
Pretty sure it's actually traveling when you do that.
Pretty sure it's actually traveling when you do that.
Dumbest reply goes to....
BallersTalk
10-21-2009, 10:44 PM
In order for something to count as a missed shot, you have to actually attempt a shot. Throwing it at the rim doesn't always count as a shot.
OneMoreSucka
10-21-2009, 10:52 PM
Pretty sure it's actually traveling when you do that.
Another valid answer. Similar to when someone puts up a shot that doesn't touch any thing, and then is the first to touch the ball - traveling.
branslowski
10-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Another valid answer. Similar to when someone puts up a shot that doesn't touch any thing, and then is the first to touch the ball - traveling.
Yeah but in that instance, it was an airball...When a shot hits the back board, it should be ruled a missed shot and rebound...In my opinion.
shlver
10-21-2009, 11:17 PM
In order for something to count as a missed shot, you have to actually attempt a shot. Throwing it at the rim doesn't always count as a shot.
What exactly counts as a shot?
BallersTalk
10-21-2009, 11:22 PM
Another valid answer. Similar to when someone puts up a shot that doesn't touch any thing, and then is the first to touch the ball - traveling.
Nope. It's only traveling if it touches nothing after you've released it and then you catch the ball again.
Technically, it should be counted as a missed shot if you aim it towards the rim, regardless of whether or not you were trying to make the basket. For example, players intentionally miss FT's in certain end-of-game situations all the time, but the FTA always counts.
Take this for example. Some players make alleyoop passes that accidentally go in the basket. It counts as a basket for the person that attempted the pass. Yet...if they attempt that pass and it bounces off the backboard somehow it's not counted as anything...I think in the NBA rulebook, anything that goes in the basket, is counted as a shot attempt and a made basket for that team's basket. But whether or not to count shot attempts is extremely subjective when they're missed. That's probably why box scores are often fixed the day after the game is played. I'm guessing they go over the tapes and carefully decide if it counts as a shot attempt or not. I think that's fair.
Meticode
10-21-2009, 11:22 PM
The shot shouldn't be anything, no assist, or rebound. If it's been scored either before way before it was a mistake then.
Technically, it should be counted as a missed shot if you aim it towards the rim, regardless of whether or not you were trying to make the basket. For example, players intentionally miss FT's in certain end-of-game situations all the time, but the FTA always counts.
Finally, someone that watches basketball. According to the rule book, it was a shot attempt. Did Kobe have the intent to score? No but that's just using the system to gain an advantage. Kobe knew he wouldn't be called for travelling so he took advantage of it.
Raider007
10-22-2009, 12:23 AM
Not a touchdown either?:wtf:
It's traveling violation in FIBA.
I think they don't count it any way in the NBA boxscores (neither as an assist nor a miss and a rebound). It's just a "highlight".
mamba24
10-22-2009, 06:04 AM
Not a rebound? Ricky Davis tried to throw the ball of the glass to himself to record a triple double and they didn't count it haha.
Ricky davis threw it off the backboard on his side not the opponents...cmon basketball is not that retarded.
mamba24
10-22-2009, 06:15 AM
I never said a single word about self assists so I don't know why you're trying to put words in my mouth now.
The nba rule states: "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into the basket for a field goal."
Kobe didn't attempt to shoot the ball, therefore no rebound or field goal attempt should've been rewarded. That's why this is on the SCOREKEEPER and his dumb ass for thinking otherwise.
Game set and match, I'll wait.
Lol then why did the referee not call travel? what sort of childish argument are you making? blaming the score keeper...
its not the 1st time a nba player has done it.
its like taking an alley oop off the back board to yourself...why is it that hard to understand?
do you not play? have you seen kobe do it just this once?
even in the all star game tmac and carter got the
Missed shot
rebound
2 points....
i mean you cant just award 2 points...you gotta give the missed shot which means a rebound and then 2 points...
Please dont bring FIBA rules into NBA i know they are different and it would be travelling but its the nba and not fiba.
Seriously, is it that hard to understand? People making basketball into rocket science. It's pretty sad that only a few people know the rules. Some people calling it a travel, others a self assist(:oldlol:) and others calling it nothing. I lost faith in this board, a bunch of box score watches aside from the very few that know the game.
Rake2204
10-22-2009, 09:47 AM
It's traveling violation in FIBA.
I think they don't count it any way in the NBA boxscores (neither as an assist nor a miss and a rebound). It's just a "highlight".
Yes I recall watching a video this summer from Dream Team II in 1994 and Shaq threw it off the board to himself. The opposing coach was livid and the British announcer politely insisted it was indeed against FIBA rules to toss the ball to oneself off the backboard in that manner. That was in 1994, so things could have changed, but I'd say there's a good chance that rule remains in FIBA.
In the NBA, I agree it would be nothing. It'd be nice to have an actual, true, reliable resource on the matter. I am under the impression that scorekeepers do indeed handle certain situations a little differently person to person.
To my understanding, a rebound is a carom off of a missed shot attempt. An intentionally toss off the board with no intent of scoring would not count as a field goal attempt in my book. And while it's true that if that toss happened to find its way into the bucket it would be counted as a field goal attempt and make, I do not believe that means anything thrown in the vicinity (regardless of intent) is therefore counted as an attempt. An accidental make must be counted as a field goal because a made shot has to be accounted for in some fashion.
For instnace, there is not a stat at this point to account for a ball that bounced off someone's forehead and into the basket. If the ball bounced off someone's forehead, then riccocheted off the rim, I would not look at that as a shot attempt. But again, if that ball goes in, it has to be recorded as such so as to officially make note of those two points.
Many of you are bringing up logical comparitive scenarios but unfortunately I do not believe the rules in basketball are always logical. I believe an intentionally missed free throw may not apply to this situation because one of the primary rules to shooting free throws is that it must be a shot attempt. That is, if you try to throw the ball off the board to yourself, it will be a violation (as it would be too easy to throw the ball off the board back to player with an open lane). While there may not be intent, a free throw is inherently a shot attempt, meaning it must hit the rim. On an off-the-backboard toss during gameplay, there is no shot making intent nor is it required by rule to in fact be a shot.
Concluding, I would not count the ol' off-the-backboard self dunk as a rebound or an assist. Similarly, I would not count the ol' AND1 spin-while-throwing-the-ball-off-the-backboard-from-three-point-line-while-confusing-your-defender-and-regaining-possesion-in-the-meantime as a rebound either.
Lastly, if a player had 10 points, 10 assists, 6 rebounds and found himself on a wide open breakaway and decided to throw/tap the ball off the backboard to himself on purpose to gain 4 rebounds, I would not count those as misses and rebounds. It would be up to the discretion of the scorekeeper at that point, just as it was when Bobby Sura intentionally missed a shot to snag his 10th rebound a few years ago.
I think scorekeepers operate under the assumption that players are always legitimately trying to score, so it's not a decision they must ask themselves everytime a player scores, "Was he trying to do that?" but I believe there are special instances where they must evaluate the circumstances and intent. The NBA does not appear to keep an extra close eye on statistics and their interpretation unless a milestone is at stake, which in the past is why Sura and LeBron James (2009 at MSG) both eventually had their triple doubles revoked.
I question the posters scoffing at everyone else's supposed ignorance. I have tried to find some real, legitimate information on this matter but I came up empty. Suffice to say, everytime that play is completed, the announcers, laughing in awe, seem to respond with, "You know what I wanna know? Is that gonna be an assist or a miss and a rebound or what?! Haha! Wow!" Then they never actually tell us. So while all these responses sound like opinions (including mine) I am wondering if anyone may be able to link us to the actual, in print, ruling.
^ an essay to say you don't know what it is? That can't be life. FYI, nobody really cares what you think it is. We're talking about what it's called. It's a missed shot and rebound. It's obvious you haven't watched a game when it happened because commentators explain it to the viewers. Maybe you should stop watching teams with no athletic players like Utah and watch an LA game cause you'll be sure that Kobe does that at least twice a year.
revan
10-22-2009, 04:18 PM
It's a missed shot and a rebound. Simple as that. You can't pass to yourself but you can get a rebound on your own miss. Thats it. Thats all it can be.
50inchvertical
10-22-2009, 11:02 PM
Seriously, is it that hard to understand? People making basketball into rocket science. It's pretty sad that only a few people know the rules. Some people calling it a travel, others a self assist(:oldlol:) and others calling it nothing. I lost faith in this board, a bunch of box score watches aside from the very few that know the game.
I promise you, I can find instances where it wasn't counted as a missed shot, rebound, made shot. It's up to the scorekeepers, just as subjective as when does an assist cease to be an assist and just become a pass, when is a block a block and a steal a steal, as opposed to just a deflection or the offensive player losing control of the ball and thusly no statistical notation. And as reppy noted, if the ref really wants to be a douche bag, he'll call a travel, especially if you do it on a breakaway.
And :oldlol: at thinking you have to be an "athletic beast" to do this
josh99
10-22-2009, 11:34 PM
From what I understand it's a miss and then an offensive rebound if it touches the rim. If it just touches the backboard then it is nothing. But it definitely isn't a self assist lol.
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