Ufc 104

[RandomBalla55]

I had every fight on the main card correct.. except with an asterik on Machida of course. I had a pretty good feeling about Tibau, and while I admired Big Ben's heart, the fact that Cain just consistently picked him up and slammed him to the ground was so impressive.

[fatboy11]

I had every fight on the main card correct.. except with an asterik on Machida of course. I had a pretty good feeling about Tibau, and while I admired Big Ben's heart, the fact that Cain just consistently picked him up and slammed him to the ground was so impressive.I picked Rothwell because he's a good fighter and I really wasn't impressed with Cain in his fight with Kongo. Kongo never does well against wrestlers. Cain might be the real deal. Can't help but notice how small he is, though. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

And what's up with Josh Neer? Can dude defend a takedown? Someone needs to tell him that whining about being taken down doesn't score you any points.

As for the other main card fights, I knew Yoshida would lose to Rumble, even with the weight thing. Zenko struggles with physically imposing welterweights like Johnson and Koscheck. Also knew Joe Daddy would be a very bad match-up for Fisher and that's what happened.

[RandomBalla55]

Oh, and for those that wonder, FightMetric is up on Shogun / Machida.

And, basically, it should've been Shogun winning. 48-47 would've been okay if you use the FightMetric scoring and understand that 10-10 rounds are quite rare, but they scored it 49-47.

[bdreason]

Dana doesn't build up his PPV's as he should. I wouldn't throw a guy like Shogun at Machida right after Machida's victory over Evans. Let Machida beat up on a couple scrubs...


This strategy doesn't work in MMA, because even a "scrub" can catch a superior fighter.

Dana tried that model though, and it didn't work. After having a few of his star fighters lose in "build-up" fights against "scrubs", he realized the best plan is to just give the fans the fights they want, as soon as possible.

Dana uses The Ultimate Fighter to build up fighters names for the most part.

[Jackass18]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2zxukhz.gif

He better be Fedor's next fight after Rogers.

[lefthook00]

3 rounds to 2 for Shogun at worst. 4 rounds to 1 at best.

That's what the UFC gets for adopting the boxing round scoring system.

The UFC should use yellow cards for stalling/not trying to engage like Pride did, and take away part of their purse for being a b*tch.

What Machida does is not elusiveness. It's straight up running. Standing in the pocket and blocking/dodging punches and countering is elusiveness. Machida throws a quick lead left hand, sometimes over a fighters jab, and other times he runs away, and this wows everyone. Wack.

THIS is elusiveness, and this is after he turned into a fata$$:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgA0YVoZADw

[The Italian]

Machida won the 2nd round of the fight definitely (at least in my opinion) and you could argue that he won one more round, but there is no way that he won 3 rounds (imo at least). Shogun was the aggressor for almost the entire fight, landed more shots in basically every single round and was simply the better fighter last night for the majority of the fight.

I definitely agree that Shogun was the winner ast night and that performance that Shogun put on was the type of fighting that everybody expected from Shogun when he first came to the UFC. That kind of performance is why Shogun was widely considered the #1 LHW in the world and one of the best P4P fighters in the world a few years ago. It looks like Shogun is finally recovered from his two ACL surgeries and having a healthy Shogun makes the UFC's LHW division even more stacked.

Combine Shogun's resurgance with the additions of Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture and Antonio Rogerio Nogueria as well as Chuck Liddell getting back into training (who knows, maybe he can have a late career rebirth much like Randy has had?) and the fact that Rampage will be back eventually (at least I believe so) and you have one stacked division. With the division being so stacked I fail to see why they would fix this fight because its not like a Shogun vs. Ortiz, Evans, Couture, Silva (Thiago or even Anderson if he would fight for the LHW title) wouldn't be a huge draw.

Back to the decision though, I do agree that Shogun should've won the fight and was robbed, for a lack of a better word.

Speaking of poor decisions though, how the hell did they give Matt Bader a 30-27 decision? I agree that he won the fight but it was definitely a 29-28 decision as he did not win the 2nd round at all. Not sure if anybody watched the prelims or not though.

Cain Velasquez is legit though. I had my doubts about him after his lackluster performance against Cheick Kongo, but he put on an absolute wrestling clinic against Ben Rothwell and completely dominated him from start to finish. The stoppage was a bad stoppage imo, but Velasquez was going to dominate Rothwell anyways so whatever.

That was a very impressive performance from Cain though. I hope that they don't throw him to the wolves and match up with the winner of Lesnar/Carwin or somebody like Nogueria or Mir as he is still fairly green in some aspects of the sport and needs some more seasoning against second tier fighters but with the rate that he is improving he could become a very dangerous heavyweight contender. I'd like to see one more fight against a second tier fighter and then see him move into title contention.

Anthony Johnson was very impressive as well. The guy is just a huge WW. I think he might be too big though. I just don't know if he will be able to continuously make the cut to 170 or if he will miss weight like he did yesterday. If he can continuously make weight he is going to be a dangerous fighter int hat division and he is the one guy that I could see giving GSP some troubles. A huge guy like him with a very good wrestling background and knockout power in both hands and both feet. He is still very young and only getting better too. The question is whether or not he will be able to make the cut to 170 or if he will be forced to move up to 185.

It was a solid card (still have to watch some fights as I missed a couple last night like the Stevenson-Fisher and Okami-Sonnen fight) but it will definitely be overshadowed by the controversial decision in the main event.

[Eldrunko247]

There is still no reputable source who supports the Machida victory.

RUNNING TOTAL OF RESULTS BY PUBLICATION:

FOR RUA: 33 (27 writers, 12 fighters)

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua
CompuStrike: Rua outlanded Machida 89-50 in Total Strikes landed including 73 Leg Strikes landed. Rua dominated the fight and did just about everything he needed to do to beat the undefeated Machida, including outlanding Machida in every round, but apparently it wasn't enough for the judges.
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science: 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
411mania.com: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
Slam Sports: Rua ("For all intents and purposes, the

[Jackass18]

=Speaking of poor decisions though, how the hell did they give Matt Bader a 30-27 decision? I agree that he won the fight but it was definitely a 29-28 decision as he did not win the 2nd round at all. Not sure if anybody watched the prelims or not though.

Yeah, and I'm also wondering how Tibau won 30-27. In the 3rd round, he did nothing but get a couple weak takedowns, where Neer outworked him from the bottom while also getting the better of the stand up. They desperately need to change the scoring system, but they won't.

Yes Drunko, we know that 99% of the people that saw the fight thought Shogun won.

[BMOGEFan]

is cecil peoples one of the judges?

i hate this guy.

[Eldrunko247]

is cecil peoples one of the judges?

i hate this guy.
yes

[Story Up]

Dana doesn't build up his PPV's as he should. I wouldn't throw a guy like Shogun at Machida right after Machida's victory over Evans. Let Machida beat up on a couple scrubs and then build up a possible spoiler against a guy like Shogun or some other great Light Heavyweight a few PPV's down the line.

He's setting up the fans for disappointment cause we know he wants Machida to win and the fans to get used to him as champ, but then he has PPV's like he has last night where the fans were behind Machida, but get screwed by not having Shogun win the belt. Shogun has the history and in my opinion the overall advantage on Machida. What was Dana expecting??

Shogun lost to Griffin for christ sake, I love how you guys are building him up all the sudden. I thought Machida won a close decision last night, but I give Griffin a lot of credit; he impressed me a lot last night. I don't think Lyota was even close to his best; he'll adjust his strategy for the rematch and whoop Shogun's ass, just watch.

Then some of you will bring Shogun down to earth, this is UFC. Not every figher can go into the octagon and consistently dominate worthy opponents. We got accustomed to Machida dominating every opponent but last night he met his match and it was a close fight. I think because Shogun was a heavy underdog, that gave him a lot of love from the fans because they didn't expect such a close fight.

But Shogun being robbed is absolute blasphemy. Machida dummied Evans because of his elusiveness, he backed up the whole fight against Rashad as well. Unfortunately Shogun's leg kicks kept Machida a good distance away from him and that's why he never got an opportunity to finish the fight. Shogun wasn't even close to finishing Machida, outside of his routine leg kicks while Machida could have easily finished the fight if his knees were a good five inches higher from Shogun's mid-section.

Bottom line, I was disappointed with Machida and impressed with Shogun, at the end of the fight; I definitely did not think Shogun deserved the belt for his performance it was no where as one sided as some of you claim.

[Jackass18]

Shogun was going through injury problems when he fought Forrest. He's just now (or perhaps his last 2 fights) getting back to being healthy and able to get his cardio back up.

[Mex-Laker]

Anyone have a video link to the Machida fight ?

I missed it, would appreciate if anyone has it, thanks.

[sirkeelma]

Anyone have a video link to the Machida fight ?

I missed it, would appreciate if anyone has it, thanks.

http://www.arkhilario.com/2009/10/22/machida-vs-shogun-video/

[Mex-Laker]

http://www.arkhilario.com/2009/10/22/machida-vs-shogun-video/

Appreciate it man !

Thanks a lot ! :cheers:

[Mikaiel]

Cecil Peoples explains his decision :


The main-event of UFC 104 saw Lyoto Machida defend his Light heavyweight title by winning a unanimous decision over Shogun Rua but not without controversy as many spectators felt the scorecards reflected poorly upon the fight. Long time MMA judge and referee, Cecil Peoples provided us with his reasoning behind his issued score of 48-47 in favour of the champion, Lyoto Machida.

"First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyoto's diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favour the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that."

"When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favour, where as unsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I'm just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I'm sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too."

What an idiot. :rant :rant :rant

[dkmwise]

one of the judges who scored in favor of machida, now regrets his decision after rewatching the fight, and thinks shogon should have won

oh boy...



ufc judging system needs some serious ammendments


I agree the judging can be bad and a lot of states just throw boxing judges in there who know nothing of MMA. However in my opinion if you don;t finish the opponent of make an incredibly overwhelming case for yourself than your really not winning the fight anyway. You can't leave it in the hands of the judges, you gotta finish it.

[BMOGEFan]

Cecil Peoples is by far the worst judge in the world.

[Styles p]

Cecil Peoples is by far the worst judge in the world.

dope name tho.