How will Kobe be robbed of the MVP this year?

[KAJ=GOAT]

We know its happened a few times in the past already,

but what excuse will people try to use to justify not giving Kobe MVP this season?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe was never robbed of an MVP. When he deserved the award in 2008, he got it.

[Fatal9]

Media has already sabotaged his run by putting pressure on the Lakers to win 72. Sadly, the MVP run is over before it even started. lol

[Rip_City09-10]

Kobe should go die in a hole......after he wins another couple of MVP's and adds some more Finals MVP's to his name.

Im not a fanboy please don't hurt me! :hammerhead:

[Cyclone112]

Media has already sabotaged his run by putting pressure on the Lakers to win 72. Sadly, the MVP run is over before it even started. lol

You're right in the fact that Kobe isn't getting MVP but you're wrong in the reasoning as Kobe won't win MVP for this one simple reason...He's not the most valuable player.

[cotdt]

You're right in the fact that Kobe isn't getting MVP but you're wrong in the reasoning as Kobe won't win MVP for this one simple reason...He's not the most valuable player.

Yes he is. The player that leads his team to a championship is by definition an extremely valuable player. If you can't even lead your team to the NBA Finals, how are you valuable? What particular value did you add?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe was never robbed of an MVP. When he deserved the award in 2008, he got it.

..

[plowking]

No, he simply won't win it because he's not the best player in the world anymore.

[lbj23clutch]

When was Kobe ever robbed? :confusedshrug: The year he won it was the only year where he clearly deserved it. If your talking about the 05-06 season then let me ask you this, when was the last time a team below 50 wins won the MVP award. That Laker squad won only 45 games that year. Nash rightfully deserved it that year after leading his Suns to nearly 60 wins, doing so without the Suns leading scorer Amare Stoudamire that whole year. And in 06-07, yes Kobe had another great year, but you need team success to win the MVP award, something that Laker squad lacked. Dirk rightfully deserved it that year, after leading his club to 66 wins. You have to remember the MVP award is a regular season reward,

[Lebron23]

No, he simply won't win it because he's not the best player in the world anymore.


Wade or Melo is the 2010 NBA MVP.

[Butters]

The player that leads his team to a championship is by definition an extremely valuable player. If you can't even lead your team to the NBA Finals, how are you valuable? What particular value did you add?

What does any of this have to do with MVP?

[plowking]

Wade or Melo is the 2010 NBA MVP.

Nah, Lebron is the best player in the league, and once he gets going, he will get this team to more wins.

[dawsey6]

We know its happened a few times in the past already,

but what excuse will people try to use to justify not giving Kobe MVP this season?

Please enlighten me. When was he most deserving of the MVP award and didn't get it?

[nash4eva!gosuns]

We know its happened a few times in the past already,

but what excuse will people try to use to justify not giving Kobe MVP this season?


You're kidding, right?

The MVP isn't "given". It's earned.
"People"-Assuming you're talking about everyday sports fans who make excuses and criticisms about NBA players-- don't decide who gets the MVP.
125 members of the media do.

And they never have to make excuses.
As stated before, Kobe hadn't earned MVP until he actually got it. 2008.

/End thread.

[plowking]

Yes he is. The player that leads his team to a championship is by definition an extremely valuable player. If you can't even lead your team to the NBA Finals, how are you valuable? What particular value did you add?

Hence you get the Finals MVP.

[Showtime]

Ah yes, the poor victims of the NBA's machinations: the Los Angeles Lakers.




God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.

[Fatal9]

God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.
This guy is always so :mad:. Dude is angry to a point where he is willing to fly out and fight certain Laker fans :oldlol:

horrible joke/reference btw.

[BankShot]

With a team as ridiculously talented and stacked as Kobe's Lakers, I don't think Kobe will have the best overall stats, nor will he be THE most vital to the team's relative level of success, nor if you took Kobe away would the remaining be the worst off of all MVP candidates.

The only thing, IMO, that Kobe has going for him in terms of traditional MVP qualification, is the fact that he's inarguably the best player on what has a great chance of being the team with the best record.

[Butters]

God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.

Are they really worth the gas bill?:confusedshrug:

[oh the horror]

With a team as ridiculously talented and stacked as Kobe's Lakers, I don't think Kobe will have the best overall stats, nor will he be THE most vital to the team's relative level of success, nor if you took Kobe away would the remaining be the worst off of all MVP candidates.

The only thing, IMO, that Kobe has going for him in terms of traditional MVP qualification, is the fact that he's inarguably the best player on what has a great chance of being the team with the best record.



Yeah, I just dont see it happening on a team like the Lakers...too many weapons. This team, while isnt a championship team without Kobe....certainly wouldnt fall apart if Kobe was gone for some games.


Honestly if you ask me...Wade needs to win that MVP...

What in the hell would the Miami Heat do without Dwayne Wade??

[plowking]

Yeah, I just dont see it happening on a team like the Lakers...too many weapons. This team, while isnt a championship team without Kobe....certainly wouldnt fall apart if Kobe was gone for some games.


Honestly if you ask me...Wade needs to win that MVP...

What in the hell would the Miami Heat do without Dwayne Wade??

I thought Wade's best case was in 05-06. He had the wins and the stats. Ah well, though it would be a shame for such a great player to go unrewarded without an MVP.

[ronnymac]

God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.
Thats really poor taste.

[Showtime]

This guy is always so :mad:. Dude is angry to a point where he is willing to fly out and fight certain Laker fans :oldlol:

horrible joke/reference btw.
You are pathetic. Really, you are sad. I hope your parachute doesn't open as you skydive into my ignore list. and yes *******, it was a reference
:banana:

[Kobe Polanski]

Yes he is. The player that leads his team to a championship is by definition an extremely valuable player. If you can't even lead your team to the NBA Finals, how are you valuable? What particular value did you add?
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[Fatal9]

Thats really poor taste.
The guy is a bit on the loony side at the very least. Might be the angriest person I've ever encountered on these forums. No normal person gets so hyped up over e-beefs that they want to hunt down posters in real life for a fight. Might be one of the few things he can take seriously about his life I guess.

I mean look at this guy:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147274
^ Thread filled with him basically tracking the life of someone who doesn't even post on here. :oldlol: at "he lives in the OC, started watching ball in '99, is X years old etc etc".

Showtime: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Doranku]

Ah yes, the poor victims of the NBA's machinations: the Los Angeles Lakers.




God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.

You're pathetic.

Anyway, Kobe won't be 'robbed' of MVP this year. Unless the Lakers win 70, he really has no chance of winning the award. His team is stacked, and he's simply not as good as the other candidates anymore (LeBron, Wade, arguably Carmelo).

To be honest, he didn't really deserve the 2008 MVP based on the criteria of the award. Chris Paul should've won it, but based on what ensued in the Playoffs, it's not such a travesty that he did win in '08. (Yes, I know the MVP award is for REGULAR SEASON, but it's nice to see an MVP lead his team to the finals opposed to losing in the semi's)

[ImmortalD24]

God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.Seek help.

[oh the horror]

You're pathetic.

Anyway, Kobe won't be 'robbed' of MVP this year. Unless the Lakers win 70, he really has no chance of winning the award. His team is stacked, and he's simply not as good as the other candidates anymore (LeBron, Wade, arguably Carmelo).






Agreed.

[Allstar24]

Ah yes, the poor victims of the NBA's machinations: the Los Angeles Lakers.




God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.
You're an idiot.

[Allstar24]

Kobe deserved it in 06 and 07, when he was the best player in the league but they didn't give it to him. CP3 was more deserving of the award in 08 but they gave it to Kobe instead. So it kind of evens out. And who gives a **** about the MVP award? It hardly holds any value since it's voted on by the media. Championship >>>>> MVP.

[nash4eva!gosuns]

Ah yes, the poor victims of the NBA's machinations: the Los Angeles Lakers.

CUTE.



I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.

NOT.

[Myth]

Ah yes, the poor victims of the NBA's machinations: the Los Angeles Lakers.




God I wish Hitler was gassing laker fans.

1st line: Hilarious.

2nd line: Poor taste.

[Yung D-Will]

No, he simply won't win it because he's not the best player in the world anymore.
Yes he is I don't know what you've been watching the past 2 years :oldlol:

[godofgods]

Dude doesn't deserve one.

[Diesel J]

Yes he is I don't know what you've been watching the past 2 years :oldlol:


What have you been watching the past 2 years? KObe isn't better than Lberon, Wade or Cp3

[Yung D-Will]

What have you been watching the past 2 years? KObe isn't better than Lberon, Wade or Cp3

Funny he's better than Lebron, Wade And Cp3

Why is Cp3 even in this conversation Dwight > Cp3

Lol Dumbass :oldlol:

Kobe,Lebron and Wade are in a class of their own

[plowking]

Funny he's better then Lebron, Wade And Cp3

Why is Cp3 even in this conversation Dwight > Cp3

Lol Dumbass :oldlol:

Wade and Lebron are both better, with Lebron currently being better than both. Wade was better at the end of the regular season in my opinion, though Lebron's play in the playoffs and his games this season make me believe he's the best as of now.

Kobe was better all the way until about a little under midway last season, though Wade and Lebron are now better.

Don't be quick to call a person dumbass when you don't know the difference between "then" and "than".

[poido123]

You're pathetic.

Anyway, Kobe won't be 'robbed' of MVP this year. Unless the Lakers win 70, he really has no chance of winning the award. His team is stacked, and he's simply not as good as the other candidates anymore (LeBron, Wade, arguably Carmelo).

To be honest, he didn't really deserve the 2008 MVP based on the criteria of the award. Chris Paul should've won it, but based on what ensued in the Playoffs, it's not such a travesty that he did win in '08. (Yes, I know the MVP award is for REGULAR SEASON, but it's nice to see an MVP lead his team to the finals opposed to losing in the semi's)

MVP is for the reg season and Chris Paul was robbed in 2008, his team had a strong record not far off the lakers and he was clealry having the best regualr season apart from a close Lebron, in my opinion, I dont think Kobe stood out as the best player in any year he has played, not being a hater, he's just been unlucky that another player has always had a better reg season than him, but that 2008 one reaked of charity...:confusedshrug:

[Yung D-Will]

Wade and Lebron are both better, with Lebron currently being better than both. Wade was better at the end of the regular season in my opinion, though Lebron's play in the playoffs and his games this season make me believe he's the best as of now.

Kobe was better all the way until about a little under midway last season, though Wade and Lebron are now better.

Don't be quick to call a person dumbass when you don't know the difference between "then" and "than".


His play in the playoffs you mean that series when the Cavs won 1 game agienst the Magic :violin: I don't know how you can use playoff play in your argument when Kobe was the final's mvp. Wade last season put up spectacular statistics but it still didn't translate to his team coming out with wins.

Your last sentence makes no sense because I made no statement that indicates I don't know the difference between then and than me bolding the word And was to indicate that he's better than all three of them.

Nothing last season indicated to me that Lebron or Wade surpassed Kobe

O edit I just realized I had a typo in the first one where I put "Then". Fixed I hope that helps you sleep better at night Plow

[plowking]

His play in the playoffs you mean that series when the Cavs won 1 game agienst the Magic :violin: I don't know how you can use playoff play in your argument when Kobe was the final's mvp. Wade last season put up spectacular statistics but it still didn't translate to his team coming out with wins.

Your last sentence makes no sense because I made no statement that indicates I don't know the difference between then and than me bolding the word And was to indicate that he's better than all three of them.

Nothing last season indicated to me that Lebron or Wade surpassed Kobe

You're right, its not like Kobe had clearly the best team in the league by a wide margin...

Once again your last sentence proves you don't know the difference between then and than.

[plowking]

MVP is for the reg season and Chris Paul was robbed in 2008, his team had a strong record not far off the lakers and he was clealry having the best regualr season apart from a close Lebron, in my opinion, I dont think Kobe stood out as the best player in any year he has played, not being a hater, he's just been unlucky that another player has always had a better reg season than him, but that 2008 one reaked of charity...:confusedshrug:

How was the Miami/Chicago game for you today btw? Who won again?

[Rocker09]

Kobe was never robbed of an MVP award

[1~Gibson~1]

Kobe has arguably 4 other all-stars around him, so how could he be more valuable than say D-Wade or Melo (if they both are playing at a high level)?

[dr8ked]

How Kobe got the MVP over Paul


Hornets' Paul is the other main contender, and voting could come down to the Western Conference standings.
By Mike Bresnahan, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
April 10, 2008
The top spot in the Western Conference might not be the only thing decided in the final regular-season games.

Some voters might simply select Kobe Bryant or New Orleans guard Chris Paul as the league's most valuable player based on which team finishes better in the West, Lakers Coach Phil Jackson said.

"I think winning the West is probably going to be the most important thing as far as that goes. It's going to have a big influence," said Jackson, who has reiterated his support for Bryant numerous times over the last few weeks. But Jackson acknowledged that Paul was also playing at a high level: "I think that Chris has certainly vaulted into that position where he seriously has to be considered."

The Lakers are two games behind the first-place Hornets, with the regular season ending next Wednesday.

There were 129 writers and broadcasters who voted for the MVP award last season. On-the-fence voters get a chance to see the Lakers and Hornets play each other Friday at Staples Center.

Bryant's 28.7-point scoring average this season is second in the league to Cleveland forward LeBron James. Bryant is averaging 6.4 rebounds a game, the second-highest in his career, and 5.4 assists a game, tied for third-best in his career.

Paul is averaging 21.3 points and leads the league in assists (11.4 a game) and steals (2.7 a game) before Wednesday's game.

Bryant, in his 12th season, has never won the award. Paul, in his third season, has also not won it.

The Lakers usually let the fortunes of their players rest on their own achievements, but the team took the added step of sending out pro-Bryant material to NBA writers around the league.

The material was based on an old-style political election campaign and consisted of bumper stickers, campaign buttons, red suspenders and a letter from "campaign manager" Jerry Buss, who urged writers to vote for Bryant.

"From the owner on down, the organization feels that Kobe has had a season worthy of an MVP award," said Tim Harris, the Lakers' chief marketing officer and senior vice president of business operations. "Sending this out is not something we have historically done, but his performance and leadership warrants it."

MVP ballots are due when the regular season ends. The winner is usually announced during the second round of the playoffs, in mid-May.

Of 21 NBA writers polled informally by Mark Heisler, The Times' NBA columnist, 10 selected Bryant, eight selected Paul, two picked Boston forward Kevin Garnett and one chose James.

With an increased number of newspapers withdrawing from voting because of potential conflict-of-interest issues, only six of the 21 planned to vote this season. (Three chose Bryant and three chose Paul.) The Times will not vote for an MVP.

['Toine=MVP]

I think he'll end up deserving MVP this year, but the voters will go with someone else because the Lakers will have a (relatively) disappointing season (like less than 60 wins). Again, I am not hating on the Kobe, he will still be the best player, but there will be other players close enough on better teams.

[DukeDelonte13]

Dwight and Lebron are more likely to get it this year than Kobe IMO.

[Diesel J]

His play in the playoffs you mean that series when the Cavs won 1 game agienst the Magic :violin: I don't know how you can use playoff play in your argument when Kobe was the final's mvp. Wade last season put up spectacular statistics but it still didn't translate to his team coming out with wins.

Your last sentence makes no sense because I made no statement that indicates I don't know the difference between then and than me bolding the word And was to indicate that he's better than all three of them.

Nothing last season indicated to me that Lebron or Wade surpassed Kobe

O edit I just realized I had a typo in the first one where I put "Then". Fixed I hope that helps you sleep better at night Plow

Cavs lost 4-2 in the playoffs vs Orlando but not because of Lebron (noone really showed up outside of Lberon and Delonte)..Lebron put up 38ppg 8rbs 8 st on 49FG% and was better than KObe 33 ppg on 42/43 FG% vs Orlando:violin:

[Diesel J]

How Kobe got the MVP over Paul

KObe won the MVP that year because the Lakers had the best record out West, simple as that. celtics had the best record in the league but Garnett didn't really have "MVP stats". Statistically/individually though that season, Lebron and CP3 were both better than KObe.

[Indian guy]

Kobe won the MVP award the moment he qualified for the criteria the voters have been following for decades. He hasn't been deserving any other year outside of 07-08.

[EricForman]

although laker fans can argue that kobe has been robbed of an MVP award, to imply this has happened for many years, or that kobe has been robbed more so than other superstars have been robbed, is stupid.

the only year kobe had a legit case for MVP but didn't win is 06. every other year there were more deserving players. including 2008 when Chris Paul led an inferior cast to almost as much success (in regular season) as kobe.

[Dresta]

Yes he is. The player that leads his team to a championship is by definition an extremely valuable player. If you can't even lead your team to the NBA Finals, how are you valuable? What particular value did you add?
wtf does winning a championship have to do with regular season mvp? Stop with the ****ing homerism.

[guy]

Kobe has never been robbed according to the criteria of the past 30 years. Its one thing to say the criteria sucks, which I agree with. I think they should have a simple criteria, and have the MVP go to the best player in the league, and with that being the case, Kobe would've won it 3 times from 06-08. But according to the current criteria (best player on one of the best teams who's statistically dominant and was the best player on his team by a wide margin), he should've won it once in 08, and he did.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Kobe deserved it in 06 and 07, when he was the best player in the league but they didn't give it to him. CP3 was more deserving of the award in 08 but they gave it to Kobe instead. So it kind of evens out. And who gives a **** about the MVP award? It hardly holds any value since it's voted on by the media. Championship >>>>> MVP.

Come on, 2007? The Lakers won 42 games that year, I remember injuries to Odom, Walton and Brown, but 42 wins isn't an MVP season. They nearly missed the playoffs, in fact I remember them really limping into the playoffs. Don't get me wrong, Kobe's scoring late in that season was incredible and one of the most dominant stretches I can remember an individual having, but in reality how valuable was? The Lakers didn't accomplish anything so even if you take Bryant away they go from 42 win, obvious first round losers to a lottery team. Not a big deal. The other candidates were on championship contenders, if you take them off of their teams then they go from potentially winning it all to at best, barely making the playoffs.

Nowitzki led his Mavs to 67 wins and they were good, but not a dominant supporting cast. He also had a ridiculously efficient 50/40/90 season along with averaging 25/9 with 3.4 assists.

Nash actually had a pretty good case that year too. 18.6 ppg, 11.6 apg, shooting percentages of 53/46/90, 61 wins and numerous clutch moments.

Tim Duncan also had a good case as he led his team to 58 wins, played DPOY caliber defense, averaged 20/11 with 2.4 bpg and 3.4 apg on 55% shooting.

2006? Kobe's 35 ppg was amazing, same with the 81 game and 62 in 3 quarters game, but again they only won 45 games. They did exceed expectations, but in reality, should Lebron's Cavs have won 50 games? Is a team with Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall, Damon Jones and a washed up Eric Snow really a 50 win team? If you put Lebron with them it is. Lebron was atleast as impressive statistically as well(31/7/7 on 48% shooting).

Dirk Nowitzki led Dallas to 60 wins and his team was good, but not a 60 win team on paper either. Dirk averaged 27/9/3 with another great shooting line of 48/41/90.

Nash upped his scoring by over 3 ppg from the year before to make up for the loss of Amare Stoudemire who had averaged 26 ppg. Nash also led the league with 10.5 assists to go along with his 19 ppg and he had was ridiculously efficient(51 FG%, 44 3P%, 92 FT%). Phoenix won 54 games.

I know about the supporting cast argument, but really, that only goes so far. Pau Gasol led a cast that wasn't much better to 49 wins and he averaged 20/9/5/2 on better than 50% shooting.

[Dave3]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24150526/


THE MVP IS KOBE BRYANT BECAUSE HE IS THE BEST PLAYER OF THE #1 TEAM IN THE WEST AVERAGING 28.3 POINTS, 6.3 REBOUNDS, 5.4 ASSISTS, 1.8 STEALS ON 46% FG, 36% 3-POINT AND 84% FREE-THROW IN THE REGULAR SEASON!

Le-stat padder DOESN'T BELONG TO THE MVP DISCUSSION BECAUSE HIS TEAM WAS ONLY 45-37 IN THE WEAK EAST AND WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFF IF THEY ARE IN THE WEST!


So a you're saying a team that won 45 games isn't good enough to have its best player win the MVP....so then which year did Kobe get robbed if he never won more than 45 games before that?

[triangleoffense]

Yeah, I just dont see it happening on a team like the Lakers...too many weapons. This team, while isnt a championship team without Kobe....certainly wouldnt fall apart if Kobe was gone for some games.


Honestly if you ask me...Wade needs to win that MVP...

What in the hell would the Miami Heat do without Dwayne Wade??

I honestly don't know about that. i don't think he's even missed a while since the Gasol trade. He has seriously put his game into another atmosphere. He is the offensive and defensive spark of the team while still being the best player who plays the most minutes. Remember last year when the Lakers would have a 20 point lead going into the 3rd/4th and then have it all shrink away when the bench came in? Gasol was still in the game when Kobe was on the bench but that's how those other teams came back into the game 95% of the time.

[Dresta]

Paul did deeserve it in 2008, and don't give me that Kobe won the west crap, his team had 1 more win, big ****ing deal, Chris Paul achieved far more both individually and for his team that season, that no one expected to do anything.

But then again Kobe should've won it in 2006.

[1Time4YourMind]

He won't be robbed because he won't win it this year.

[Diesel J]

But then again Kobe should've won it in 2006.

Na..

Lebron's 31/7/7 on 48 FG% 50 win team > Kobe's 35/5/5 on 45 FG% 42 win team

:applause:

[Splitz77]

72 wins? Doubt it..They lost to dallas. lol.

[dawsey6]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24150526/


THE MVP IS KOBE BRYANT BECAUSE HE IS THE BEST PLAYER OF THE #1 TEAM IN THE WEST AVERAGING 28.3 POINTS, 6.3 REBOUNDS, 5.4 ASSISTS, 1.8 STEALS ON 46% FG, 36% 3-POINT AND 84% FREE-THROW IN THE REGULAR SEASON!

CHRIS PAUL CHOKES AND GOT EMBARRASSED LOSING 4 OF THEIR LAST 6 GAMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON THAT PUT THEM #2 BEHIND THE LAKERS!

Le-stat padder DOESN'T BELONG TO THE MVP DISCUSSION BECAUSE HIS TEAM WAS ONLY 45-37 IN THE WEAK EAST AND WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFF IF THEY ARE IN THE WEST!

IF YOU ARE BASING IT ON STATS AND WEAK PLAYERS AROUND HIM THEN KOBE SHOULD HAVE HAD WON THE MVP IN 2005-2006 WHEN HE AVERAGED 35.4 POINTS, 5.4 REBOUNDS, 4.6 ASSISTS, 1.8 STEALS LEADING HIS SCRUB TEAMMATES KWAME BROWN, SMUSH PARKER, LUKE WALTON AND VERY INCONSISTENT LAMAR ODOM INTO THE PLAYOFF WITH 45-37 RECORD!

Le-stat padder WOULD BE LUCKY IF HE CAN FINISH 3RD IN THE MVP VOTING LOL![/b]




PAUL DOESN'T DESERVE THE MVP!

How can an MVP candidate lose 4 out of their last 6 games?

How can an MVP candidate's team is only #2 in the west and #4 overall?

How can an MVP candidate embarrassed by Deron Williams and Jason Kidd?

How can an MVP candidate score only 2 points on 1-10 10% FG?

How can an MVP candidate score only 4 points on 2-11 18% FG?


Kobe Bryant is averaging 28.4 points, 6.3 Rebounds, 5.4 Assists and 1.9 steals. 46% FG, 36% 3-point FG and 84% Free-Throw.

Kobe Bryant is playing with dislocated pinky finger.

Kobe Bryant is playing without injured teammates Pau Gasol, Bynum and Ariza in most games this season.

Pau Gasol only played 26 games with the Lakers.
Bynum only played 35 games this season because of injury.

Kobe played all 82 games this season.



Paul has David West who is averaging 21 points and 9 rebounds per game, he has Chandler who is averaging 12 rebounds (#3 in the NBA) and Peja Stojakovic who is averaging 17 points, 5 rebounds and 46% 3-point FG.

Guess what? David West missed 13 games and Peja Stojakovic missed 52 games last season. They didn't even make the playoff last year. Kobe had the same scenario this year but the Lakers are #1 in the west!

06-07 Hornets record: 39-43
Combined games missed by West, Chandler, Peja: 108

07-08 Hornets record: 56-25
Combined games missed by West, Chandler, Peja: 14

That's why. Paul needs the team around him. Without them, they fall apart.


Paul has no superstar on his team?


David West - 21 points per game on 48.2% FG, 9 rebounds and 2 assists.ALL-STAR PLAYER

Chandler - 12 points per game, 12 rebounds per game (#3 in the NBA!) - USA TEAM MEMBER

Peja - 16.4 points per game, 4.3 rebounds per game, 44% 3-point shooter and 93% Free-Throw shooter. FORMER ALL-STAR PLAYER AND 3-POINT SHOOTING CONTEST CHAMPION!

Paul has no help?



Kobe and the Lakers are #1 in the west with 57-25. The Hornets are healthy all year.



Kobe is the MVP!


http://www.nba.com/media/lakers/080506kobeinterior.jpg

Kobe got 82 first place votes while Paul got only 28 first place votes! It's not even close!


:cry: haters

:lol :lol :lol :lol :applause:

What a great read. Quite entertaining.

Anyway...

Please enlighten me. When was he most deserving of the MVP award and didn't get it?
I'm still waiting for this question to be answered.

[BrianDawkins20]

Kobe's never robbed anybody for an MVP and he's never been robbed. Let's get real here.

[branslowski]

Kobe really wasn't robbed for an MVP...Had a case in 02-03, 05-06, but wasn't robbed IMO...Also, should we really be focusing on the Reg season MVP at this moment?..Championships, Finals MVP..:bowdown:

[Lyin]

When it's all said and done, kids in 20 years will be idolizing GAWD Kobe. They're not gonna care about cheese eyes Jordan. I'm gonna LMAO so bad when haters kids gonna be rocking throwback Kobe jerseys and his shoes.


Your kid: Dad, when I grow up...I want to be like Kobe.

You: :mad:

[samballs]

Something that Laker fan and Kobe fan will never understand is that they have never been robbed of anything. They are by far the most glamorours team ever and players want to play for them.

[KAJ=GOAT]

50+ wins, 1st in western conference, respectable stats,

what else does he need to do to win?

Seeing as how its an individual award, it doesn't matter who his teammates are in 2009, just as teammates didn't matter in any other year for any other player.


I just love how the double standards come flying out of the woodworks.


Every year prior to 2008,

"an MVP needs to lead his team to 50 wins, no ifs, ands or buts."


So, now that the Lakers are clearly in the running for 50 wins again,

can you guys come up with better excuses?

The ones you're trying now, just aren't cutting it as all they are is double standards.


"he has a stacked team"


Never hurt Magics, Kareems, Jordans, or Birds chances now did it?

[plowking]

That's because Bird, Magic and Jordan all put up better stats while winning more.

[mamba24]

That's because Bird, Magic and Jordan all put up better stats while winning more.

lol stats are all you haters harp on...He may not be as good as those 3 stat wise but talent wise he's up there with them. If he totals out 5 rings he will be in the convo with bird and Magic.

Also when its time to seal a game...more times than not he has won the game, and yes i am talking about playoffs. How many crunch time FT's has shaq missed only for kobe to bury the 3 pointer as time expires? or assist to win the game?

In fact in 4 championship run years as shaq sidekick he has hit more buzzer beaters than jordan did in his first 3 title runs...hence the clutch moniker he now holds.

dont hate the player hate the game. Hes a great talent and will go down top 10 to top 5 depending on how many rings he has.

and i dont need to back him...hes got all the legends on his bench...read a bit more and understand the game. its not all about stats.

tell me this...there is one barber in a town. so thats 100%...if 1 barber dies is that 0%? maths can solve problems but is not the end all for things that cant be seen.

its good thou. when a player starts to get the attention he deserves all the other team supporters come out to hate...keep hating coz they aint gonna quit...the best you can do is enjoy the talent and be amazed while you can.


same with Lebron, wade, melo, cp3, timmy and so on...hate their teams but as individual talents ...RESPECT...only fools hate and after reading your posts for eons i have to say you are not a very intelligent poster. just a hater with a hate agenda.

[momo]

what excuse will people try to use to justify not giving Kobe MVP this season?

Swine flu. The Economy. Aliens.

Or Melo, Brawn, Wade, Howard... maybe a dark horse.

Or swine flu...

[ivienthol]

lol Delusional Kobe homers

[KelticForce1349]

When was Kobe ever robbed? :confusedshrug: The year he won it was the only year where he clearly deserved it. If your talking about the 05-06 season then let me ask you this, when was the last time a team below 50 wins won the MVP award. That Laker squad won only 45 games that year. Nash rightfully deserved it that year after leading his Suns to nearly 60 wins, doing so without the Suns leading scorer Amare Stoudamire that whole year. And in 06-07, yes Kobe had another great year, but you need team success to win the MVP award, something that Laker squad lacked. Dirk rightfully deserved it that year, after leading his club to 66 wins. You have to remember the MVP award is a regular season reward,


Did Chris Paul not exist that year?

[plowking]

lol stats are all you haters harp on...He may not be as good as those 3 stat wise but talent wise he's up there with them. If he totals out 5 rings he will be in the convo with bird and Magic.

Also when its time to seal a game...more times than not he has won the game, and yes i am talking about playoffs. How many crunch time FT's has shaq missed only for kobe to bury the 3 pointer as time expires? or assist to win the game?

In fact in 4 championship run years as shaq sidekick he has hit more buzzer beaters than jordan did in his first 3 title runs...hence the clutch moniker he now holds.

dont hate the player hate the game. Hes a great talent and will go down top 10 to top 5 depending on how many rings he has.

and i dont need to back him...hes got all the legends on his bench...read a bit more and understand the game. its not all about stats.

tell me this...there is one barber in a town. so thats 100%...if 1 barber dies is that 0%? maths can solve problems but is not the end all for things that cant be seen.

its good thou. when a player starts to get the attention he deserves all the other team supporters come out to hate...keep hating coz they aint gonna quit...the best you can do is enjoy the talent and be amazed while you can.


same with Lebron, wade, melo, cp3, timmy and so on...hate their teams but as individual talents ...RESPECT...only fools hate and after reading your posts for eons i have to say you are not a very intelligent poster. just a hater with a hate agenda.

Kobe will never be better than Bird. He simply wasn't as good as him in his prime. Magic he has a chance of surpassing. LOL at the Shaq diss. How many game winning shots would Kobe have a chance to make if Shaq wasn't there with his 40 and 20 every night in the finals? Exactly...

You ought to keep your mouth shut when you know nothing on the topic. I'm one of Kobe's biggest fans. So you're really talking out of your ass. I never said it was all about stats. It's Kobe only fans that get pissy like you whenever a comment is made about him that doesn't praise him. He compared Kobe to Jordan, Kareem and Bird. Jordan was putting up 30+ points, averaging more rebounds and assists while being on a better team. That's why he won MVP's. Kobe doesn't exactly do that.

Educate yourself, watch some videos of games prior to 2002, because it's obvious thats when you started watching basketball. Well not even basketball so much, it seems only Kobe.

[plowking]

Swine flu. The Economy. Aliens.

Or Melo, Brawn, Wade, Howard... maybe a dark horse.

Or swine flu...

I think you forgot swine flu.

[mamba24]

Kobe will never be better than Bird. He simply wasn't as good as him in his prime. Magic he has a chance of surpassing. LOL at the Shaq diss. How many game winning shots would Kobe have a chance to make if Shaq wasn't there with his 40 and 20 every night in the finals? Exactly...

Lol what sort of reasoning is this? kobe not as good as bird but can be better than magic? do you even watch basketball? have you seen any interviews with the legends? magic by many in the basketball world not you half ass world is if not as good as jordan on his level. while bird was great but not on the same level...i would infact put both of them on a 50:50 and jordan over. and to the shaq 40/20 ques...kobe showed that he can score 40+ points as a no1 option. so if it was the other way around it would have been a blowout and not a clutch situation if you wanna talk Rhetorical.

You ought to keep your mouth shut when you know nothing on the topic. I'm one of Kobe's biggest fans.
Yea alot of us know how big a kobe fan you are...your a LBJ nut hugger...nothing wrong with that...but speak your line not mask it.

So you're really talking out of your ass. I never said it was all about stats. It's Kobe only fans that get pissy like you whenever a comment is made about him that doesn't praise him. He compared Kobe to Jordan, Kareem and Bird. Jordan was putting up 30+ points, averaging more rebounds and assists while being on a better team. That's why he won MVP's. Kobe doesn't exactly do that.

Theres a reason a better team wins. Jordan alway had pippen to cover his back on the perimeter...while kobe was always the defense and offense...not that hes a better defender than jordan but he was doing alot of it...now that he has Ron artest you will see the difference.


Educate yourself, watch some videos of games prior to 2002, because it's obvious thats when you started watching basketball. Well not even basketball so much, it seems only Kobe.

Lol i have been a basketball fan since 1988...i have not seen the magic and bird rivalries live but i have seen them on tape. so my assesment is as good as anyone. as for jordan i have seen him play and he is what he is today due to media hype. no doubt hes a great player but to brand him the best ever when the world has not yet ended is dumb.

not saying kobe is better ...but down the line a player will come along...cause records are meant to be broken. stop ass kissing stats...and enjoy the player...thats what i am saying...i am not branding kobe the best ever..while to some he is. so why does it annoy you ?

tommorow someones gonna dump your daughter cause shes is not the best girl in bed..are you gonna hunt down her x-boyfriend to reason with him why she is the best?

HOMER

[plowking]

Lol what sort of reasoning is this? kobe not as good as bird but can be better than magic? do you even watch basketball? have you seen any interviews with the legends? magic by many in the basketball world not you half ass world is if not as good as jordan on his level. while bird was great but not on the same level...i would infact put both of them on a 50:50 and jordan over. and to the shaq 40/20 ques...kobe showed that he can score 40+ points as a no1 option. so if it was the other way around it would have been a blowout and not a clutch situation if you wanna talk Rhetorical.

You ought to keep your mouth shut when you know nothing on the topic. I'm one of Kobe's biggest fans.
Yea alot of us know how big a kobe fan you are...your a LBJ nut hugger...nothing wrong with that...but speak your line not mask it.

So you're really talking out of your ass. I never said it was all about stats. It's Kobe only fans that get pissy like you whenever a comment is made about him that doesn't praise him. He compared Kobe to Jordan, Kareem and Bird. Jordan was putting up 30+ points, averaging more rebounds and assists while being on a better team. That's why he won MVP's. Kobe doesn't exactly do that.

Theres a reason a better team wins. Jordan alway had pippen to cover his back on the perimeter...while kobe was always the defense and offense...not that hes a better defender than jordan but he was doing alot of it...now that he has Ron artest you will see the difference.



Lol i have been a basketball fan since 1988...i have not seen the magic and bird rivalries live but i have seen them on tape. so my assesment is as good as anyone. as for jordan i have seen him play and he is what he is today due to media hype. no doubt hes a great player but to brand him the best ever when the world has not yet ended is dumb.

not saying kobe is better ...but down the line a player will come along...cause records are meant to be broken. stop ass kissing stats...and enjoy the player...thats what i am saying...i am not branding kobe the best ever..while to some he is. so why does it annoy you ?

tommorow someones gonna dump your daughter cause shes is not the best girl in bed..are you gonna hunt down her x-boyfriend to reason with him why she is the best?

HOMER


Everyone knows I'm a LBJ ******ger? Ask a Cleveland fan if they can remember the last time I posted in a Cavs game thread. I'm a Heat fan you ass wipe.

I'm not even going to bother with the Shaq comments because you are hysterical.

As for Bird and Magic, I've seen enough of them both, and talked to most that were around who all agree that Bird was the better player. Magic seems to only be rated higher by Laker fans and todays younger generation due to his flashy play. Where as from personally watching, I can tell that Bird was better. Ask anyone who was around at the time, who is not a Celts or Lakers supporter. This is also coming from someone who hates the Celts, particularly today's Celtics with Garnett.

Honestly you are just another Kobe only fan who wants to praise him as the best. Go ahead. As for me being a Kobe hater, I guess thats why I try to catch as many Lakers for the sole purpose of watching Kobe's game. The only other player I do that for apart from watching my Heat games is Melo. But I guess I'm just a hater...

I'm still laughing over your Jordan envy. I can tell you're about 15 or so due to your idiotic logic.


as for jordan i have seen him play and he is what he is today due to media hype. no doubt hes a great player but to brand him the best ever when the world has not yet ended is dumb.

So we're supposed to brand Jordan the best ever after the world has ended and no one is alive? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[mamba24]

Everyone knows I'm a LBJ ******ger? Ask a Cleveland fan if they can remember the last time I posted in a Cavs game thread. I'm a Heat fan you ass wipe.

:sleeping does it matter what or who you are? clearly your hugging alot of nuts.


I'm not even going to bother with the Shaq comments because you are hysterical.

yes i knw i am just down right funny. you on the other hand are doing a devils treacle right about now.


As for Bird and Magic, I've seen enough of them both, and talked to most that were around who all agree that Bird was the better player. Magic seems to only be rated higher by Laker fans and todays younger generation due to his flashy play. Where as from personally watching, I can tell that Bird was better. Ask anyone who was around at the time, who is not a Celts or Lakers supporter. This is also coming from someone who hates the Celts, particularly today's Celtics with Garnett.

so im guessing you are aged between 35 and 100. kind of sad to be on ISH at that age debating about basketball players is'nt it? especially since you nut hug alot of them.


Honestly you are just another Kobe only fan who wants to praise him as the best. Go ahead. As for me being a Kobe hater, I guess thats why I try to catch as many Lakers for the sole purpose of watching Kobe's game. The only other player I do that for apart from watching my Heat games is Melo. But I guess I'm just a hater...

lol i am not a nut hugger...kobe can be god to many...to me hes the lakers main player...hes not the last ...there will be more...and i love the team since 1988...and kobe was not playing then...just so you understand kobe is 31 not 39.


I'm still laughing over your Jordan envy. I can tell you're about 15 or so due to your idiotic logic.

way off...dont quit your day job...im 28 not 15...while you seem to be wise and old...probably too old to be on this forum...my grand dad spends his time reading books try it out.


So we're supposed to brand Jordan the best ever after the world has ended and no one is alive? :roll: :roll: :roll:

you dont seem to understand the dynamics of best player in the world.

Bill russel led his team to 11 titles and twice if im not mistaken as coach and player. If there is anyone who should be the best it should be him for being the ultimate team mate.

but the media was not around then so why not just start the world over since jordan stepped onto it? get my drift or am i way beyond your comprehension grand pa?

Jordan is definately one of the best to play the game...not taking anything away from him...but you can never brand someone the best ever when its hardly been about 33 years since the NBA - ABA merger, and stats accumulated over those years have been known to be Erroneous.

I can go on an on but i am wasting my time trying to explain to a wise old man like yourself who is already stuck in his ways. :hammerhead:

[plowking]

:sleeping does it matter what or who you are? clearly your hugging alot of nuts.



yes i knw i am just down right funny. you on the other hand are doing a devils treacle right about now.



so im guessing you are aged between 35 and 100. kind of sad to be on ISH at that age debating about basketball players is'nt it? especially since you nut hug alot of them.



lol i am not a nut hugger...kobe can be god to many...to me hes the lakers main player...hes not the last ...there will be more...and i love the team since 1988...and kobe was not playing then...just so you understand kobe is 31 not 39.



way off...dont quit your day job...im 28 not 15...while you seem to be wise and old...probably too old to be on this forum...my grand dad spends his time reading books try it out.



you dont seem to understand the dynamics of best player in the world.

Bill russel led his team to 11 titles and twice if im not mistaken as coach and player. If there is anyone who should be the best it should be him for being the ultimate team mate.

but the media was not around then so why not just start the world over since jordan stepped onto it? get my drift or am i way beyond your comprehension grand pa?

Jordan is definately one of the best to play the game...not taking anything away from him...but you can never brand someone the best ever when its hardly been about 33 years since the NBA - ABA merger, and stats accumulated over those years have been known to be Erroneous.

I can go on an on but i am wasting my time trying to explain to a wise old man like yourself who is already stuck in his ways. :hammerhead:


So your Lebron nut hugging gig failed. Nice job.

With a name like mamba24, seems like you're the one hugging nuts. 28? sure...

I never said I was around when Bird and Magic were playing. Who knows, maybe this grampa you are debating with has videos of nearly all their games...

Also you don't seem to understand the dynamics of not being able to name a best player ever, when no one is alive to do it. :oldlol:

Once again, hurt and envious over the fact that Jordan is the best player to ever play in the NBA/ABA, and it won't ever be Kobe. Do you want to make it anymore obvious that you're a Kobe only fan, when the most noise you made out of my post was to downplay Jordan? :oldlol:

It would be funny to see Kobe get traded, and this account just go missing. Then 2 weeks later, funnily enough we'll get another account pop up supporting Kobe's new team with your corny ass posting style.

[mamba24]

So your Lebron nut hugging gig failed. Nice job.

With a name like mamba24, seems like you're the one hugging nuts. 28? sure...

I never said I was around when Bird and Magic were playing. Who knows, maybe this grampa you are debating with has videos of nearly all their games...

Also you don't seem to understand the dynamics of not being able to name a best player ever, when no one is alive to do it. :oldlol:

Once again, hurt and envious over the fact that Jordan is the best player to ever play in the NBA/ABA, and it won't ever be Kobe. Do you want to make it anymore obvious that you're a Kobe only fan, when the most noise you made out of my post was to downplay Jordan? :oldlol:

It would be funny to see Kobe get traded, and this account just go missing. Then 2 weeks later, funnily enough we'll get another account pop up supporting Kobe's new team with your corny ass posting style.


:sleeping :sleeping

keep talking to yourself...normally old people do have that tendency....:sleeping :sleeping

you have proven nothing...just blatantly stirring up hate on this forum, and other threads. I am aware your not liked by many including non - laker fans...so go suck a lemon...hahahah....while your at it....keep nut hugging, MJ, Kobe, LBJ, Bird , Magic...whoeva...you do not have a direction outside of hate.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Theres a reason a better team wins. Jordan alway had pippen to cover his back on the perimeter...while kobe was always the defense and offense...not that hes a better defender than jordan but he was doing alot of it...now that he has Ron artest you will see the difference.


Since 2003, Kobe has never exerted more energy and effort defensively than any version of MJ, all the way up until he left Chicago. MJ in '96 and '97, at age 33-34, was expending more energy and had more impact on defense than a 27-30 year old Kobe.

Btw, it seems that you're alluding to the "Pippen always took the best perimeter players" myth. False. Pippen exclusively guarded SF's with 3 exceptions in 10 years. So if the best perimeter player was a SF, Pippen likely took them (unless they were having success on him and they put MJ on them). If the best player was a SG or combo guard (and occasionally a PG), MJ took them.

[DonDadda59]

How will Kobe be robbed of the MVP this year?

I heard it through the grapevine that David Stern hired the same guy who Tonya Harding got to bust up Nancy Kerrigan's knee to do the same to Kobe, all part of his plan to prop up Lebron to GOAT status.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/OJO/OJO210/burglar-ski-mask_~pe0065909.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/119/253527076_5625eb286f.jpg

Why? Why? Whyyyyyyyyy?!

[garubu]

I heard it through the grapevine that David Stern hired the same guy who Tonya Harding got to bust up Nancy Kerrigan's knee to do the same to Kobe, all part of his plan to prop up Lebron to GOAT status.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/OJO/OJO210/burglar-ski-mask_~pe0065909.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/119/253527076_5625eb286f.jpg

Why? Why? Whyyyyyyyyy?!


LOLOL :roll:

[Da_Realist]

Theres a reason a better team wins. Jordan alway had pippen to cover his back on the perimeter...while kobe was always the defense and offense...not that hes a better defender than jordan but he was doing alot of it...now that he has Ron artest you will see the difference.

:oldlol: Kobe can't see Jordan defensively. I just saw Jordan in 95 single-handily shut down the Charlotte Hornets offense in the first round of the playoffs. He locked up speedy pg Muggsy Bogues (who was wreaking havoc by penetrating into the teeth of the defense over the first 2 games) and doubled down on Mourning and Larry Johnson enough to severely alter their play. His defense won the game. The fact that Jordan --at age 33 and rusty as hell after only playing about 20 games -- was asked to stop Charlotte's best offensive threat says a lot about how the coaching staff felt about Jordan's defensive abilities.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Since 2003, Kobe has never exerted more energy and effort defensively than any version of MJ, all the way up until he left Chicago. MJ in '96 and '97, at age 33-34, was expending more energy and had more impact on defense than a 27-30 year old Kobe.

Btw, it seems that you're alluding to the "Pippen always took the best perimeter players" myth. False. Pippen exclusively guarded SF's with 3 exceptions in 10 years. So if the best perimeter player was a SF, Pippen likely took them (unless they were having success on him and they put MJ on them). If the best player was a SG or combo guard (and occasionally a PG), MJ took them.


What energy detector did you use?

[Abraham Lincoln]

Something that Laker fan and Kobe fan will never understand is that they have never been robbed of anything. They are by far the most glamorours team ever and players want to play for them.
^ The best post here in this putrid, vile, & psychologically taxing thread.

[KAJ=GOAT]

^ The best post here in this putrid, vile, & psychologically taxing thread.
Care to explain the double standard that exists when it comes to Kobe and the MVP?

First it was, "he has to lead his team to 50 wins"


Now its,

"his team is stacked, he can't win it".

[KenneBell]

What energy detector did you use?
:oldlol:

I swear, Loki uses the most obscure metrics when trying to compare players. Like he can see things in their body that others can't. :roll:

[plowking]

Care to explain the double standard that exists when it comes to Kobe and the MVP?

First it was, "he has to lead his team to 50 wins"


Now its,

"his team is stacked, he can't win it".

Who says Kobe is going to win the most games? Why shouldn't Garnett win it? Or Lebron? Or Melo?

[KAJ=GOAT]

Who says Kobe is going to win the most games? Why shouldn't Garnett win it? Or Lebron? Or Melo?


Who said anything about winning the most games?

I simply put up the latest criteria for being MVP, 50 wins.


But apparently, that won't be good enough anymore because his team is stacked.

As stated previously, it didn't hurt other players chances when they won with stacked teams.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Care to explain the double standard that exists when it comes to Kobe and the MVP?

First it was, "he has to lead his team to 50 wins"


Now its,

"his team is stacked, he can't win it".
This would be a more appropriately timed trolling bait attempt during the early spring of 2008.

[KAJ=GOAT]

This would be a more appropriately timed trolling bait attempt during the early spring of 2008.


If,

thats what it was.

But its not.

Its a question.

If you don't like it,

you can always leave. Nobody makes you click on threads with the name "Kobe" or "Lakers" in them. You do that on your own accord.


So, which is it, a player needs to lead his team to 50 wins, but can't have a stacked team?

or,

he needs to have ridiculous stats with inferior teammates with a less than stellar record?

or,


just not be Kobe Bryant but almost as good?

I'm just not sure how things will be swinging this season. Curious to know.

[plowking]

Who said anything about winning the most games?

I simply put up the latest criteria for being MVP, 50 wins.


But apparently, that won't be good enough anymore because his team is stacked.

As stated previously, it didn't hurt other players chances when they won with stacked teams.

He won MVP in 2008, and he didn't deserve it last season. What's the problem?

[Abraham Lincoln]

He has been the leader of an above average team for 2 full seasons, winning the award one of those years, and losing it to a superior player the other regular season. If he does win the award again this year, one shall wonder if you will be happy for him as a fan, or allow your horribly misguided false sense of entitlement resulting from your severe exaggerated view on the perception of Bryant to cry yourself to sleep every other night wishing he hadn't won it. Just so you can log back onto Insidehoops and continue victimizing yourself under a variant Kareem Abdul-Jabbar account created 100% entirely to dispute my Wilt Chamberlain & Bill Russell viewpoints in a child like manner. No worries, for none of the usual Lakers fans will be entering as your apologists. Not in this thread.

[KAJ=GOAT]

He has been the leader of an above average team for 2 full seasons, winning the award one of those years, and losing it to a superior player the other regular season. If he does win the award again this year, one shall wonder if you will be happy for him as a fan, or allow your horribly misguided false sense of entitlement resulting from your severe exaggerated view on the perception of Bryant to cry yourself to sleep every other night wishing he hadn't won it. Just so you can log back onto Insidehoops and continue victimizing yourself under a variant Kareem Abdul-Jabbar account created 100% entirely to dispute my Wilt Chamberlain & Bill Russell viewpoints in a child like manner. No worries, for none of the usual Lakers fans will be entering as your apologists. Not in this thread.


lol, you think I came to this site to specifically challenge your viewpoints?

You clown, I never even had a name before this one and never, ever came to this site until some time in the last year.

lol at thinking that highly of yourself.


So, once again, how is the criteria going to change this year?

lol @ bron being superior. At what? Never winning a thing?


but lmao at you thinking I came to this site, and created this name to oppose you.

Who in the flying blue **** are you for me to even worry about?

[KAJ=GOAT]

He won MVP in 2008, and he didn't deserve it last season. What's the problem?


Apparently, excuses are already being built in.

"He has a stacked team".


I guess thats a good enough answer for my question.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Drop the gimmick. You started this thread with the sole purpose of creating an uunnecessary arugment like that between plowking and mamba24 & yes, since you are a Bryant fan who does not give a **** about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, indeed your alternate was created in retaliation of The Wise Man.

[Dave3]

If,

thats what it was.

But its not.

Its a question.

If you don't like it,

you can always leave. Nobody makes you click on threads with the name "Kobe" or "Lakers" in them. You do that on your own accord.


So, which is it, a player needs to lead his team to 50 wins, but can't have a stacked team?

or,

he needs to have ridiculous stats with inferior teammates with a less than stellar record?

or,


just not be Kobe Bryant but almost as good?

I'm just not sure how things will be swinging this season. Curious to know.
You're reading way too much into it. It basically has to be the player with the best combination of stats, and wins. If someone has amazing stats but not enough wins, then they're not as valuable because there aren't any wins. If the player has many wins but not great stats then their individual worth to the wins wasn't very high (at least at face value). It has to be the player with many wins, and amazing stats. Now, can you name specific years in which Kobe had better combinations of those two things than the winner of the award that year? He's not the only player in the league, so even if he's great, there may be players better that year. Not everything revolves around Kobe and the Lakers.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Drop the gimmick. You started this thread with the sole purpose of creating an uunnecessary arugment like that between plowking and mamba24 & yes, since you are a Bryant fan who does not give a **** about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, indeed your alternate was created in retaliation of The Wise Man.


I don't even know who The Wise Man is, much less know or care about who you are.

I came to this site to discuss basketball, not follow posters around.


lol at this, and these are your words,




You started this thread with the sole purpose of creating an uunnecessary arugment like that between plowking and mamba24


Who in the hell are they for me to be worried about so that I could make a thread for them?

Where do you come up with this ****?

[KAJ=GOAT]

You're reading way too much into it. It basically has to be the player with the best combination of stats, and wins. If someone has amazing stats but not enough wins, then they're not as valuable because there aren't any wins. If the player has many wins but not great stats then their individual worth to the wins wasn't very high (at least at face value). It has to be the player with many wins, and amazing stats. Now, can you name specific years in which Kobe had better combinations of those two things than the winner of the award that year? He's not the only player in the league, so even if he's great, there may be players better that year. Not everything revolves around Kobe and the Lakers.


Actually, you're reading too much into it.


I just wanted to see what the new excuses were should Kobe have another great season and get jobbed out of the award.


The new standard,

"he has a stacked team".


Not everything revolves around Kobe and the Lakers, but this is my thread.

[Dave3]

Actually, you're reading too much into it.


I just wanted to see what the new excuses were should Kobe have another great season and get jobbed out of the award.


The new standard,

"he has a stacked team".


Not everything revolves around Kobe and the Lakers, but this is my thread.
See, if he has a really good record with really good stats and no one has a better combination of those things, then yeah, he should win. But say he wins 65 games and another player wins 62 games with a much inferior supporting cast, (assuming they have the exact same stats), who would you give the MVP award to? Does it not make more sense to give it to the latter player?
Does it not make more sense to you that a player with a much better team is less individually valuable to them? It only makes sense...

[jmill]

Kobe was never robbed of an MVP. When he deserved the award in 2008, he got it.


Grunch: I think Kobe was robbed in 06, but otherwise I agree. And I'm a huge Kobe fan. Lebron deserved it last year.

The biggest joke is that Steve Nash has 2 MVPs, and Shaq has 1. Just laughable.

There did used to be a clear bias against Kobe in the MVP voting though, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I think it was in 2005 that PJ Brown received more 1st place votes than Kobe for the MVP. PJ Brown averaged 11/9 that year on a team that went 18-64. Yea.

I don't even take the award seriously anymore.

[KAJ=GOAT]

See, if he has a really good record with really good stats and no one has a better combination of those things, then yeah, he should win. But say he wins 65 games and another player wins 62 games with a much inferior supporting cast, (assuming they have the exact same stats), who would you give the MVP award to? Does it not make more sense to give it to the latter player?
Does it not make more sense to you that a player with a much better team is less individually valuable to them? It only makes sense...






Heres another angle.

I don't recall the voters of the award voting for Kobe in 06 or 07. Many of voters whom are sportswriters pegged the Lakers to be be in 11th or12 spot in the western conference, not even making the playoffs.

So what happens? Kobe has two incredible seasons where he carries what is basically a D league team to the playoffs, where not many, if any at all expected the Lakers to make it to the second season.

I'll tell you what happens. Because of some mystical 50 win rule, Kobe was slighted because his team didn't reach that plateau.

Didn't matter that Steve Nash and Dirk had stacked teams in comparison then did it?
Didn't matter that Kobe had stats that were on par or better then did it?


All that mattered then was "50 wins".

Now,

"his team is stacked".

What happened to 50 wins?

[Dave3]

Heres another angle.

I don't recall the voters of the award voting for Kobe in 06 or 07. Many of voters whom are sportswriters pegged the Lakers to be be in 11th or12 spot in the western conference, not even making the playoffs.

So what happens? Kobe has two incredible seasons where he carries what is basically a D league team to the playoffs, where not many, if any at all expected the Lakers to make it to the second season.

I'll tell you what happens. Because of some mystical 50 win rule, Kobe was slighted because his team didn't reach that plateau.

Didn't matter that Steve Nash and Dirk had stacked teams in comparison then did it?
Didn't matter that Kobe had stats that were on par or better then did it?


All that mattered then was "50 wins".

Now,

"his team is stacked".

What happened to 50 wins?
Nash didn't have a stacked team, as that was the year they lost Stoudemire, so the only other player that was good was Marion. The rest of the team wasn't very special. (mind you, I thought James was more deserving of MVP that year, as he got 50 wins with a supporting cast almost as bad as Kobe's and stats equal to Kobe's). In 2007, Dirk got like 25 more wins and again his team wasn't stacked, with Howard being their second best player. He had no one on that team as good as Gasol, and his 3rd best player was nowhere near Artest Odom or Bynum IMO. Those players didn't have stacked teams to the level of Kobe now, where the expectation is 60+ win games.

[Roundball_Rock]

All that mattered then was "50 wins".

Now,

"his team is stacked".

What happened to 50 wins?

Ask Wade. The unofficial 50 win standard remains. Lebron won as many games as Kobe last season with an inferior team and that is why he won it last year.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I don't even know who The Wise Man is, much less know or care about who you are.

I came to this site to discuss basketball, not follow posters around.


lol at this, and these are your words,




Who in the hell are they for me to be worried about so that I could make a thread for them?

Where do you come up with this ****?

You intend to bait common posters using dead double standard arguments. One can see simply by the thread title & the opening post. No good would come from a thread like this followed by your innocent act. Fact is he has not been robbed of an MVP one time in his career, and the years he had subpar teams leading them to first round exits, there was another player as deserving, beit James or Nowitzki in 2006 & Nowitzki in 2007.

You may feel like an **** as if he wins the award again this year, just as you fans were saying during the 07-08 season before as well as after the Gasol trade, "He has no chance to win MVP." Or you may already have predetermined excuses as the shameless Fatal9 does here.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3627086&postcount=3

[lilgodfather1]

Kobe was never robbed of an MVP. Not last year, last time I check better stats + more wins = MVP, but maybe not :rolleyes: . Kobe won the MVP when he deserved it, and that was 2008. He didn't deserve it in 05-07 and the players that won it deserved it. Kobe may not even win the most games this year, and he definately won't have the best stats unless LeBron/Wade get hurt. If Wade can get his team to 50 wins and have the same stats as last year then he deserves to win it this year. Of course that is unless LeBron/Kobes teams don't win 10 + more games than the Heat, and they have the same stats or similar as last year. And Kobe should win it if he can maintain his stats from last year + the Lakers win 10+ more games than the Heat, and the Lakers win 5+ more games than the Cavs.

[KAJ=GOAT]

You intend to bait common posters using dead double standard arguments. One can see simply by the thread title & the opening post. No good would come from a thread like this followed by your innocent act. Fact is he has not been robbed of an MVP one time in his career, and the years he had subpar teams leading them to first round exits, there was another player as deserving, beit James or Nowitzki in 2006 & Nowitzki in 2007.

You may feel like an **** as if he wins the award again this year, just as you fans were saying during the 07-08 season before as well as after the Gasol trade, "He has no chance to win MVP." Or you may already have predetermined excuses as the shameless Fatal9 does here.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3627086&postcount=3


lol, who in the heck are you to say why anyone made a thread?

You may feel like an ass for even existing.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Nash didn't have a stacked team, as that was the year they lost Stoudemire, so the only other player that was good was Marion. The rest of the team wasn't very special. (mind you, I thought James was more deserving of MVP that year, as he got 50 wins with a supporting cast almost as bad as Kobe's and stats equal to Kobe's). In 2007, Dirk got like 25 more wins and again his team wasn't stacked, with Howard being their second best player. He had no one on that team as good as Gasol, and his 3rd best player was nowhere near Artest Odom or Bynum IMO. Those players didn't have stacked teams to the level of Kobe now, where the expectation is 60+ win games.


Do you understand what, "in comparison to" means?

When you can understand that,


compare them to the years I presented.

[lbj23clutch]

Who said anything about winning the most games?

I simply put up the latest criteria for being MVP, 50 wins.


But apparently, that won't be good enough anymore because his team is stacked.

As stated previously, it didn't hurt other players chances when they won with stacked teams.
WTF are you talking about? In 05-07 his team won below 50 wins(45 and 42 wins). In 2008 when his team finally started winning, he got his MVP, although you could make a case that CP3 should've gotten the MVP that year. And in 2009, yes the Laker won over 60 games, but LeBron was the clear cut MVP DURING the regular season.

[Dave3]

Do you understand what, "in comparison to" means?

When you can understand that,


compare them to the years I presented.
In those years Kobe didn't have the wins...simple.

[LA_Showtime]

It would be nice if the "MVP" played more of a facilitator role this season. He's obviously not going to do it though.

[plowking]

Heres another angle.

I don't recall the voters of the award voting for Kobe in 06 or 07. Many of voters whom are sportswriters pegged the Lakers to be be in 11th or12 spot in the western conference, not even making the playoffs.

So what happens? Kobe has two incredible seasons where he carries what is basically a D league team to the playoffs, where not many, if any at all expected the Lakers to make it to the second season.

I'll tell you what happens. Because of some mystical 50 win rule, Kobe was slighted because his team didn't reach that plateau.

Didn't matter that Steve Nash and Dirk had stacked teams in comparison then did it?
Didn't matter that Kobe had stats that were on par or better then did it?


All that mattered then was "50 wins".

Now,

"his team is stacked".

What happened to 50 wins?

WTF don't you get. He won in 08. He had 50 wins and won.

What other time has he deserved it? Never.

[KAJ=GOAT]

WTF don't you get. He won in 08. He had 50 wins and won.

What other time has he deserved it? Never.


2006, 2007. The same years the writers aka the voters, picked the Lakers to be the 11th or 12th seed both years.

Both years he carried his team above and beyond the writers, aka the voters expectations.

How can you put such a low standard on a team, then, when that team is pushed beyond what is expected by a player with two incredible seasons, deny that person their rightful due?

Because they didn't get to 50 wins?


Now, the team does get 50+,

"his team is stacked, he can't win".






btw, Kareem won the award on a losing team.

The amount of wins means nothing.

[KAJ=GOAT]

In those years Kobe didn't have the wins...simple.
A team with a record of 38-44 had the MVP on their team that year.


"didn't have the wins", doesn't cut it.

[FinalCountdown]

KAJ=GOAT = Fatal9.

Exposed.

[Dave3]

A team with a record of 38-44 had the MVP on their team that year.


"didn't have the wins", doesn't cut it.
What are you talking about? What's 38-44?

[Timmy D for MVP]

No, he simply won't win it because he's not the best player in the world anymore.

That has not been the criteria in a looooooooooooong time.

[plowking]

2006, 2007. The same years the writers aka the voters, picked the Lakers to be the 11th or 12th seed both years.

Both years he carried his team above and beyond the writers, aka the voters expectations.

How can you put such a low standard on a team, then, when that team is pushed beyond what is expected by a player with two incredible seasons, deny that person their rightful due?

Because they didn't get to 50 wins?


Now, the team does get 50+,

"his team is stacked, he can't win".






btw, Kareem won the award on a losing team.

The amount of wins means nothing.

You said that he needed 50 wins. In neither of those seasons did the Lakers get 50 wins.

The season he did get 50 wins, he won. Then the next season Lebron was better. Are you saying Kobe should have won last year?


I don't even get your argument. You laid out your own rules. 50 wins. The team is too stacked argument hasn't even been used seeing as Kobe has only won over 50 games twice without Shaq.

[plowking]

2006, 2007. The same years the writers aka the voters, picked the Lakers to be the 11th or 12th seed both years.

Both years he carried his team above and beyond the writers, aka the voters expectations.

How can you put such a low standard on a team, then, when that team is pushed beyond what is expected by a player with two incredible seasons, deny that person their rightful due?

Because they didn't get to 50 wins?


Now, the team does get 50+,

"his team is stacked, he can't win".






btw, Kareem won the award on a losing team.

The amount of wins means nothing.

When has this excuse been used on Kobe? What year in MVP voting. Show me which year.

[plowking]

That has not been the criteria in a looooooooooooong time.

along with wins...

[Timmy D for MVP]

along with wins...

Last year I almost jumped on the bandwagon of creating a new award for MVP and then also for like player of the year because the voters don't even seem to know themselves what to vote on. It's just crazy.

[Cermet]

The guy is a bit on the loony side at the very least. Might be the angriest person I've ever encountered on these forums. No normal person gets so hyped up over e-beefs that they want to hunt down posters in real life for a fight. Might be one of the few things he can take seriously about his life I guess.

I mean look at this guy:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147274
^ Thread filled with him basically tracking the life of someone who doesn't even post on here. :oldlol: at "he lives in the OC, started watching ball in '99, is X years old etc etc".

Showtime: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


Well i got to say most of the Kobey fans deserve it. I mean the normal ones no, but the majority of Kobey fans are crazy , agresive stupid rednecks. Im not a hater but i just see Kobey fans posting all over forums and each one of them is just plain crazy. Probably the metally stable ones or normal ones are not posting alot of posts.

[icemanfan]

We know its happened a few times in the past already,

but what excuse will people try to use to justify not giving Kobe MVP this season?
so far he is not been the best player in the L and the Lakers are not the best team in the L so...................you kinda have to earn the damn thing. The only MVP any player should care about is the finals MVP.

[KAJ=GOAT]

so far he is not been the best player in the L and the Lakers are not the best team in the L so...................you kinda have to earn the damn thing. The only MVP any player should care about is the finals MVP.


Kobe just led his team to a championship.

How is he not the best player or the Lakers not the best team?

What in the hell are you dorks smoking these days?


and Final Countdown,

ask the mods for an ip check on me and Fatal.

We're two entirely different people.

Kobe Bryant, best player in the world.

Deal with it.

[KAJ=GOAT]

When has this excuse been used on Kobe? What year in MVP voting. Show me which year.


Perhaps if you could follow the context of the convo, I'd spend more time with you.


But you're not that bright.

[KAJ=GOAT]

What are you talking about? What's 38-44?
Do the research moron.

Any basketball fan worth their salt would know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Johnni Gade]

he was never robbed

[Dave3]

Do the research moron.

Any basketball fan worth their salt would know exactly what I'm talking about.
No MVP in the last decade had a record of 38-44....don't you find it kind of coincidental that no one has any idea what you're saying....but I'm the moron...yup!
The standards have changed, and in the last 2 or 3 decades, there has basically been a minimum of 50 wins...so that's it. The standards have changed for modern times.

[Lyin]

Kobe just led his team to a championship.

How is he not the best player or the Lakers not the best team?

What in the hell are you dorks smoking these days?


and Final Countdown,

ask the mods for an ip check on me and Fatal.

We're two entirely different people.

Kobe Bryant, best player in the world.

Deal with it.

Sup my dude. SOHH stay making em mad.

[KAJ=GOAT]

No MVP in the last decade had a record of 38-44....don't you find it kind of coincidental that no one has any idea what you're saying....but I'm the moron...yup!
The standards have changed, and in the last 2 or 3 decades, there has basically been a minimum of 50 wins...so that's it. The standards have changed for modern times.


Doesn't matter what hasn't happened in the last decade.

The facts remain,

a player on a team with a 38-44 record was the NBA MVP.


The standards haven't changed,

the voters have.

Know the difference moron.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Sup my dude. SOHH stay making em mad.



The truth always hurts those in denial.


Always some new type of criteria set up.

"need 50 wins"
"needs to lead his team to a top seed"
That was then,




this is now, "his team is stacked, he can't win it".

[catch24]

Robbed of the MVP? Lol, not the way him and his team are playing at the moment. If (huge IF) D-wade or LeBron get 50 wins - hell maybe even Carmelo, then they'll receive the award. The 3 of them are going to be putting up incredible stat lines.

[Abraham Lincoln]

When has this excuse been used on Kobe? What year in MVP voting. Show me which year.Perhaps if you could follow the context of the convo, I'd spend more time with you.


But you're not that bright.

Answer the man you piece of ****.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Robbed of the MVP? Lol, not the way him and his team are playing at the moment. If (huge IF) D-wade or LeBron get 50 wins - hell maybe even Carmelo, then they'll receive the award. The 3 of them are going to be putting up incredible stat lines..


heres another one,

"going to be putting up incredible stat lines".





I guess 35 5 5 isn't incredible enough.





You guys just need to come out and admit it,

there is no set criteria and the voters make up **** as they go along.


With reason, there is no way you can put expectations on a team and player, then when that player and team exceed those expectations quite drastically,

tell that player he isn't good enough to be in the running for the award.


2006 season- the voters aka writers

"The Lakers will finish no better than 11th or 12th in the tough western conference"

*Lakers lock up a playoff seed with Kobe carrying the team of Odom, Parker, Brown, Mihm, Cook, Walton, etc.*

Are you telling me 5 wins short of 50 negates the incredible display he put on that season? It negates that "incredible stat line"?


The writers aka the voters created the standard for the Lakers that season and he smashed right through it with stats, wins and a playoff seed when it was said he couldn't.

That is called being robbed.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Answer the man you piece of ****.


Who in the **** is this clown?

Oh yea, you're the fool who accuses people of creating new screen names when you don't agree with them.

Oh yea, you're the fool who accuses people of creating accounts to counter yours.


lol.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Are you telling me 5 wins short of 50 negates the incredible display he put on that season? It negates that "incredible stat line"?

The writers aka the voters created the standard for the Lakers that season and he smashed right through it with stats, wins and a playoff seed when it was said he couldn't.

Is that why he was #2 in 1st place votes that year behind only Nash, when James or Nowitzki had no less inferior seasons? Aside from a legendary game in January that likely prompted you to become a fan of his, what separates it from his 2007 year?

[Abraham Lincoln]

Who in the **** is this clown?

Oh yea, you're the fool who accuses people of creating new screen names when you don't agree with them.

Oh yea, you're the fool who accuses people of creating accounts to counter yours.


lol.
In other words you have no answer.

[Abraham Lincoln]

To say he was robbed then is one debate. However to foolishly bicker in early November that Bryant will be robbed of the award this year inarguably disproves your prior claim that you are here to "talk basketball." The NBA has other players too, not everything revolves around him.

[KAJ=GOAT]

In other words you have no answer.


I did you dumb tortilla.



You even responded to it.
Is that why he was #2 in 1st place votes that year behind only Nash, when James or Nowitzki had no less inferior seasons? Aside from a legendary game in January that likely prompted you to become a fan of his, what separates it from his 2007 year?

lol at your brittle little ***** ass thinking I became a fan just recently.

Kid, I've been a Laker fan since the 80s watching Laker parades on tv.

As I said, the voters created the standard for him and refused to reward him when he surpassed their expectations exponentially.



Being second place in first place votes mean **** when not a single writer had the Lakers even making the playoffs in pre season predictions.


As I've said, there is no criteria,

they make **** up as they go along, which is, you dumb mother****er,

the entire basis of this thread.

[Dave3]

Doesn't matter what hasn't happened in the last decade.

The facts remain,

a player on a team with a 38-44 record was the NBA MVP.


The standards haven't changed,

the voters have.

Know the difference moron.
The voters changing is what changed the standards. I don't know why that's so difficult for you to understand. The standard now is at least a 50 win season...end of story. You still haven't answered my question about the specific year he was robbed, and it doesn't look like you will because no year exists.

[KAJ=GOAT]

To say he was robbed then is one debate. However to foolishly bicker in early November that Bryant will be robbed of the award this year inarguably disproves your prior claim that you are here to "talk basketball." The NBA has other players too, not everything revolves around him.



Who forced you to click into the thread?


:confusedshrug:

[KAJ=GOAT]

The voters changing is what changed the standards. I don't know why that's so difficult for you to understand. The standard now is at least a 50 win season...end of story. You still haven't answered my question about the specific year he was robbed, and it doesn't look like you will because no year exists.


Look idiot,

I've already explained one season.


Its in this thread.




btw,
Thanks for proving my point.


There is no set criteria and they make **** up as they go along.

[Dave3]

Look idiot,

I've already explained one season.


Its in this thread.




btw,
Thanks for proving my point.


There is no set criteria and they make **** up as they go along.
In the 2006 season LeBron was more deserving according to most people (and the voters). I've already explained how he had a superior record with a team almost as bad with equal stats.

And there has been a set criteria for as long as the vote was by the media. A standard for 30 freaking years counts as "set criteria" not stuff made up as people go along. When something is done for 3 decades, that's called pretty consistent. I know calling other people "morons" and "idiots" might make you feel smarter, but you're never going to actually appear intelligent without understanding simple english words like "consistency":)

[phoenix18]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Delayed_penalty.gif

Can we stop? Seriously. MVP is just another meaning less award. Everyone has their own criteria.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I did you dumb tortilla.



You even responded to it.

That was an indirect excuse.


lol at your brittle little ***** ass thinking I became a fan just recently.

Kid, I've been a Laker fan since the 80s watching Laker parades on tv.
That's cool man, my younger brother is likely old enough to be your father.


As I said, the voters created the standard for him and refused to reward him when he surpassed their expectations exponentially.
As if the 'standard' didn't exist prior to that year. :lol

We did not see McGrady win in 2003, Jordan in 1987, Bryant in 2006, or Dantley, King, Wilkins, & Elgish in the mid 80's despite having superb individual numbers.


Being second place in first place votes mean **** when not a single writer had the Lakers even making the playoffs in pre season predictions.


As I've said, there is no criteria.

Indeed, for no two seasons are alike. A 50 win team in 2006 is likely far inferior to a 50 win team today. We should have the GM's or coaches vote on the award, which they unnofficially did and have done since 1959 via Sporting News.

2006 was a split between James and Nash. 2007 was righfully Nowitzki.


they make **** up as they go along, which is, you dumb mother****er,

the entire basis of this thread.

No the entire basis of this thread was 100% Kobe. Not the MVP, but Kobe and how you foolishly assume he will be robbed having seen little basketball so early in the season.

[Big#50]

Yes he is. The player that leads his team to a championship is by definition an extremely valuable player. If you can't even lead your team to the NBA Finals, how are you valuable? What particular value did you add?
Kobe didn't play so well in the finals.

[catch24]

I guess 35 5 5 isn't incredible enough.

Scoring wise not very efficient, and still not as productive as Wade, LeBron, Cp3, or even Melo.



You guys just need to come out and admit it,

there is no set criteria and the voters make up **** as they go along.

The media has had the "50 win" barrier for the past few years. I don't agree with it, but that's just how it goes today.



With reason, there is no way you can put expectations on a team and player, then when that player and team exceed those expectations quite drastically,

tell that player he isn't good enough to be in the running for the award.

When players like the 4-5 I mentioned have been consistently puting up the same impact and efficiency for 2-3 years straight (roughly) of course there are expectations. With their squads, you just got to put certain things in perspective (talent/personnel, coaching, schedules, etc).



2006 season- the voters aka writers

"The Lakers will finish no better than 11th or 12th in the tough western conference"

*Lakers lock up a playoff seed with Kobe carrying the team of Odom, Parker, Brown, Mihm, Cook, Walton, etc.*

Are you telling me 5 wins short of 50 negates the incredible display he put on that season? It negates that "incredible stat line"?

In 2006 if not for the 50 win media MVP Label, Kobe would of likely won. Though you can't be obvlivous to the fact Nash led his team to 55 wins without Amare (he was out the entire year). He put up 18ppg on 50%+ scoring dishing out 10+ assists. Not to mention he was 90% from the charity stripe, 40%+ from 3...That's just superb shooting. Magic Johnson type esque numbers across the board. Anyways, the award in '06 could have gone either way.



The writers aka the voters created the standard for the Lakers that season and he smashed right through it with stats, wins and a playoff seed when it was said he couldn't.

That is called being robbed.

He wasn't robbed. Nash was definitely a deserving winner/candidate - one can make a case for LeBron as well. Leading a team to the playoffs should be 'good' enough though....The 50 win barrier has stained the MVP award to some degree.

[vert48]

Just give Kobe the finals MVP. If that happens, I am happy.

[KAJ=GOAT]

In the 2006 season LeBron was more deserving according to most people (and the voters). I've already explained how he had a superior record with a team almost as bad with equal stats.

And there has been a set criteria for as long as the vote was by the media. A standard for 30 freaking years counts as "set criteria" not stuff made up as people go along. When something is done for 3 decades, that's called pretty consistent. I know calling other people "morons" and "idiots" might make you feel smarter, but you're never going to actually appear intelligent without understanding simple english words like "consistency":)



Show it.

I want to see the criteria set up by the media that has been the same for 30 years.

Lets see some actual evidence. Not just some made up theory in someones head, but an actual document stating the actual criteria for the award.

If you can't produce it, it makes your entire statement null and void,

which means,


they make it up as they go along,

moron.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

i can't believe these arguments still happen on a daily basis about kobe bryant. looks like a whole different breed of posters tho...

[KAJ=GOAT]

That was an indirect excuse.


That's cool man, my younger brother is likely old enough to be your father.


As if the 'standard' didn't exist prior to that year. :lol

We did not see McGrady win in 2003, Jordan in 1987, Bryant in 2006, or Dantley, King, Wilkins, & Elgish in the mid 80's despite having superb individual numbers.



Indeed, for no two seasons are alike. A 50 win team in 2006 is likely far inferior to a 50 win team today. We should have the GM's or coaches vote on the award, which they unnofficially did and have done since 1959 via Sporting News.

2006 was a split between James and Nash. 2007 was righfully Nowitzki.



No the entire basis of this thread was 100% Kobe. Not the MVP, but Kobe and how you foolishly assume he will be robbed having seen little basketball so early in the season.




Here you go again, trying to tell me what my thread is about.

comical.


The rest of your post basically agrees with me.

There is no set criteria and the voters make it up as the season progresses.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Scoring wise not very efficient, and still not as productive as Wade, LeBron, Cp3, or even Melo.




The media has had the "50 win" barrier for the past few years. I don't agree with it, but that's just how it goes today.




When players like the 4-5 I mentioned have been consistently puting up the same impact and efficiency for 2-3 years straight (roughly) of course there are expectations. With their squads, you just got to put certain things in perspective (talent/personnel, coaching, schedules, etc).




In 2006 if not for the 50 win media MVP Label, Kobe would of likely won. Though you can't be obvlivous to the fact Nash led his team to 55 wins without Amare (he was out the entire year). He put up 18ppg on 50%+ scoring dishing out 10+ assists. Not to mention he was 90% from the charity stripe, 40%+ from 3...That's just superb shooting. Magic Johnson type esque numbers across the board. Anyways, the award in '06 could have gone either way.




He wasn't robbed. Nash was definitely a deserving winner/candidate - one can make a case for LeBron as well. Leading a team to the playoffs should be 'good' enough though....The 50 win barrier has stained the MVP award to some degree.



another post saying the same thing in a different way,

there is no set criteria and they make it up as they go along.


lol not as productive as those you mentioned.

Lets be real here.

Smush Parker, out of the league
Kwame Brown, coming off the bench in Detroit
Luke Walton, tugging on Kobes cape.
Odom, riding the bench now, but the only decent player he had
Chris Mihm, lmao
Brian Cook, double lmao.


Who else takes these guys to the playoffs in the western conference?

Nobody.

[icemanfan]

Kobe just led his team to a championship.

How is he not the best player or the Lakers not the best team?

What in the hell are you dorks smoking these days?


and Final Countdown,

ask the mods for an ip check on me and Fatal.

We're two entirely different people.

Kobe Bryant, best player in the world.

Deal with it.
wow they desided to combine years in the NBA? Cool when did this happen? So we are now on a two year rotation that counts last years results. Weird, wonder why the desided to do that after the Lakers won and not after other teams had one.

[catch24]

another post saying the same thing in a different way,

there is no set criteria and they make it up as they go along.


lol not as productive as those you mentioned.

Lets be real here.

Smush Parker, out of the league
Kwame Brown, coming off the bench in Detroit
Luke Walton, tugging on Kobes cape.
Odom, riding the bench now, but the only decent player he had
Chris Mihm, lmao
Brian Cook, double lmao.


Who else takes these guys to the playoffs in the western conference?

Nobody.

I guess you didn't see LeBron's team play during the 2006 season. They definitely overachieved. Just because your laughing your ass off doesn't mean they didn't produce. Kobe's team overachieving had much to do with Phil and Tex Winter implicating the Triangle Offense (equal opportunities). The season prior the Lakers hit 33 wins, that was with Caron, Lamar and Kobe. Yes Kobe was injured 10-15 games, but that was during the beginning of the year. Phil Jackson and his offensive system = underrated.

Wrong, that is your opinion. lol @ "nobody". Wade, LeBron? Get real rofl.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Here you go again, trying to tell me what my thread is about.

comical.


The rest of your post basically agrees with me.

There is no set criteria and the voters make it up as the season progresses.
No, yo uinsist that Bryant has inarguably been robbed of the award in the past and will again be robbed of the award this season, despite it being the first week of November. That does not agree with your creedence.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Odom, riding the bench now, but the only decent player he had

Riding the bench?

[Dave3]

Show it.

I want to see the criteria set up by the media that has been the same for 30 years.

Lets see some actual evidence. Not just some made up theory in someones head, but an actual document stating the actual criteria for the award.

If you can't produce it, it makes your entire statement null and void,

which means,


they make it up as they go along,

moron.
Look in the past 30 years, see if anyone has won MVP without 50 wins. If they have, the theory is falsified, if not, it's pretty good evidence for that type of criteria existing:)

[KAJ=GOAT]

Look in the past 30 years, see if anyone has won MVP without 50 wins. If they have, the theory is falsified, if not, it's pretty good evidence for that type of criteria existing:)


So you have no proof?


I was positive you did not.

There is no criteria. Its made up.

[KAJ=GOAT]

I guess you didn't see LeBron's team play during the 2006 season. They definitely overachieved. Just because your laughing your ass off doesn't mean they didn't produce. Kobe's team overachieving had much to do with Phil and Tex Winter implicating the Triangle Offense (equal opportunities). The season prior the Lakers hit 33 wins, that was with Caron, Lamar and Kobe. Yes Kobe was injured 10-15 games, but that was during the beginning of the year. Phil Jackson and his offensive system = underrated.

Wrong, that is your opinion. lol @ "nobody". Wade, LeBron? Get real rofl.


Of course I seen it, they played in the east.

3 teams with 50 wins. Such a tough, incredibly tough place to play. So tough, 3 teams with .500 or less records made the playoffs.


lol the triangle being the reason.

The reason was Kobe. That particular offense is one of if not thee hardest for players to learn.

"it wasn't Kobe shooting the ball that made it go in the basket, it was the air quality."

[KAJ=GOAT]

No, yo uinsist that Bryant has inarguably been robbed of the award in the past and will again be robbed of the award this season, despite it being the first week of November. That does not agree with your creedence.


Thats simply a part of the process.

The main point of my post from my brain,

is that the voters have no criteria and change it to suit there agenda.

If anyone was deserving last year, it was Billups. He changed the entire chemistry of that team and raised expectations for the organization. Lebron got it because the media wants to be justified in proclaiming him the "King".




But yea, why are you so attracted to Kobe threads if you're sick of them?

[KAJ=GOAT]

wow they desided to combine years in the NBA? Cool when did this happen? So we are now on a two year rotation that counts last years results. Weird, wonder why the desided to do that after the Lakers won and not after other teams had one.


If Kobe wasn't awarded in 08, they would have exposed themselves. I don't think he should have gotten it that year, that one belonged to Paul.

[icemanfan]

Look in the past 30 years, see if anyone has won MVP without 50 wins. If they have, the theory is falsified, if not, it's pretty good evidence for that type of criteria existing:)
look at the past 30 years and see how many times the league MVP ended up being the Finals MVP (here is a clue.......the number is not that high). Its a reg season award and has absolutely jack ****ing **** to do with the finals.

[Dave3]

Of course I seen it, they played in the east.

3 teams with 50 wins. Such a tough, incredibly tough place to play. So tough, 3 teams with .500 or less records made the playoffs.


lol the triangle being the reason.

The reason was Kobe. That particular offense is one of if not thee hardest for players to learn.

"it wasn't Kobe shooting the ball that made it go in the basket, it was the air quality."
Look it up, since 1983, no player has won MVP without 50 wins (I looked it up). If that's not consistent enough for you then I don't know what can convince you.

[Dave3]

look at the past 30 years and see how many times the league MVP ended up being the Finals MVP (here is a clue.......the number is not that high). Its a reg season award and has absolutely jack ****ing **** to do with the finals.
I never said anything about finals, I was talking about 50 regular season wins...

[catch24]

Of course I seen it, they played in the east.

3 teams with 50 wins. Such a tough, incredibly tough place to play. So tough, 3 teams with .500 or less records made the playoffs.


lol the triangle being the reason.

The reason was Kobe. That particular offense is one of if not thee hardest for players to learn.

"it wasn't Kobe shooting the ball that made it go in the basket, it was the air quality."

Looking at evidence (going by the season prior as well), the triangle was a strong reason of the teams success. Kobe had to score points, no doubt, but a lot of those cats had career years because of the offensive scheme - T-offense. I remember watching FSN (little training camp special) and seeing Phil teaching Smush, Lamar and others how it worked, they seemed to get it. Even if you think the Western Conference blew the East out of the water, it doesn't negate what LeBron did. He too had to carry an army of scrubs to the playoffs Vs. an Eastern Conference who statistically played better defense. Kobe was a great scorer, but an inconsistent one who threw up a ton of shots...45% is pretty volume. I'm not degrading what he did, dude was a legit MVP candidate (probably would of won if not for the 50 win mark), just sayin' though.

This is my last comment on the subject. Tooooodles.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Looking at evidence (going by the season prior as well), the triangle was a strong reason of the teams success. Kobe had to score points, no doubt, but a lot of those cats had career years because of the offensive scheme - T-offense. I remember watching FSN (little training camp special) and seeing Phil teaching Smush, Lamar and others how it worked, they seemed to get it. Even if you think the Western Conference blew the East out of the water, it doesn't negate what LeBron did. He too had to carry an army of scrubs to the playoffs Vs. an Eastern Conference who statistically played better defense. Kobe was a great scorer, but an inconsistent one who threw up a ton of shots...45% is pretty volume. I'm not degrading what he did, dude was a legit MVP candidate (probably would of won if not for the 50 win mark), just sayin' though.

This is my last comment on the subject. Tooooodles.

Those kids had career years because of Kobe being doubled and tripled and then getting an open look.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Look it up, since 1983, no player has won MVP without 50 wins (I looked it up). If that's not consistent enough for you then I don't know what can convince you.


Thats not criteria though, thats just consistency.


a standard of judgment or criticism; a rule or principle for evaluating or testing something.


Where are these rules written?

[Dave3]

Thats not criteria though, thats just consistency.


a standard of judgment or criticism; a rule or principle for evaluating or testing something.


Where are these rules written?
Clearly there is a rule then, but it's just unwritten. You have two choices, to believe that unwritten rules exist among all the voters or that there is a conspiracy theory against Kobe. Even without the 50 win standard, LeBron was more deserving in 2006 IMO, so you have yet to name a year that Kobe was "robbed"

[zabuza666]

Kobe Bryant has never been robbed of the MVP, as every year there's been someone with a bigger claim to the award.

Even in the year Kobe won the award (2008), he wasn't even the most deserving candidate; that was Chris Paul.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Scoring wise not very efficient, and still not as productive as Wade, LeBron, Cp3, or even Melo.

The media has had the "50 win" barrier for the past few years. I don't agree with it, but that's just how it goes today.

When players like the 4-5 I mentioned have been consistently puting up the same impact and efficiency for 2-3 years straight (roughly) of course there are expectations. With their squads, you just got to put certain things in perspective (talent/personnel, coaching, schedules, etc).

In 2006 if not for the 50 win media MVP Label, Kobe would of likely won. Though you can't be obvlivous to the fact Nash led his team to 55 wins without Amare (he was out the entire year). He put up 18ppg on 50%+ scoring dishing out 10+ assists. Not to mention he was 90% from the charity stripe, 40%+ from 3...That's just superb shooting. Magic Johnson type esque numbers across the board. Anyways, the award in '06 could have gone either way.

He wasn't robbed. Nash was definitely a deserving winner/candidate - one can make a case for LeBron as well. Leading a team to the playoffs should be 'good' enough though....The 50 win barrier has stained the MVP award to some degree.


I guess you didn't see LeBron's team play during the 2006 season. They definitely overachieved. Just because your laughing your ass off doesn't mean they didn't produce. Kobe's team overachieving had much to do with Phil and Tex Winter implicating the Triangle Offense (equal opportunities). The season prior the Lakers hit 33 wins, that was with Caron, Lamar and Kobe. Yes Kobe was injured 10-15 games, but that was during the beginning of the year. Phil Jackson and his offensive system = underrated.

Wrong, that is your opinion. lol @ "nobody". Wade, LeBron? Get real rofl.


Looking at evidence (going by the season prior as well), the triangle was a strong reason of the teams success. Kobe had to score points, no doubt, but a lot of those cats had career years because of the offensive scheme - T-offense. I remember watching FSN (little training camp special) and seeing Phil teaching Smush, Lamar and others how it worked, they seemed to get it. Even if you think the Western Conference blew the East out of the water, it doesn't negate what LeBron did. He too had to carry an army of scrubs to the playoffs Vs. an Eastern Conference who statistically played better defense. Kobe was a great scorer, but an inconsistent one who threw up a ton of shots...45% is pretty volume. I'm not degrading what he did, dude was a legit MVP candidate (probably would of won if not for the 50 win mark), just sayin' though.

This is my last comment on the subject. Tooooodles.

:cheers: :cheers: :applause: :applause: It's funny to see these clowns get owned by REAL Lakers fans. KAJ=GOAT is just the next in a long line of Kobe only fans who masquerade as Lakers fans thinking they can fool people. Great posts, catch24.

Fact is, Kobe was NEVER robbed of an MVP award. In 2008, he deserved it and rightfully won it. That was the year he finally began to play within a team structure and not me me me. He helped lead his team to the best record in the West early on when nobody really expected much out of them. Their only significant addition was Derek Fisher. Late in the year, it was a neck and neck battle for the #1 seed in the West between the Lakers, the Hornets, the Spurs, and even the Rockets and Jazz were in the mix. Kobe led his team to the #1 spot, even outplaying Chris Paul in a late April matchup right before the playoffs. People sometimes complain about Chris Paul getting robbed that year, but IMO Kobe rightfully earned the award. As for this year, it's waaayyyyyy too early to even think about who's MVP.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Clearly there is a rule then, but it's just unwritten. You have two choices, to believe that unwritten rules exist among all the voters or that there is a conspiracy theory against Kobe. Even without the 50 win standard, LeBron was more deserving in 2006 IMO, so you have yet to name a year that Kobe was "robbed"



There is no unwritten rules.

Writers have had an agenda against Kobe since the rape charge.

But as I said before, this is about there being no set criteria and voters making **** up as they go along.

Steve Nash has 2 MVPs,

think about that.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Kobe Bryant has never been robbed of the MVP, as every year there's been someone with a bigger claim to the award.

Even in the year Kobe won the award (2008), he wasn't even the most deserving candidate; that was Chris Paul.


So you agree, there is no set standard,

just whatever the voters feel like doing that particular year.

2008 was Paul, just like last year should have been Billups.

[KAJ=GOAT]

:cheers: :cheers: :applause: :applause: It's funny to see these clowns get owned by REAL Lakers fans. KAJ=GOAT is just the next in a long line of Kobe only fans who masquerade as Lakers fans thinking they can fool people. Great posts, catch24.

Fact is, Kobe was NEVER robbed of an MVP award. In 2008, he deserved it and rightfully won it. That was the year he finally began to play within a team structure and not me me me. He helped lead his team to the best record in the West early on when nobody really expected much out of them. Their only significant addition was Derek Fisher. Late in the year, it was a neck and neck battle for the #1 seed in the West between the Lakers, the Hornets, the Spurs, and even the Rockets and Jazz were in the mix. Kobe led his team to the #1 spot, even outplaying Chris Paul in a late April matchup right before the playoffs. People sometimes complain about Chris Paul getting robbed that year, but IMO Kobe rightfully earned the award. As for this year, it's waaayyyyyy too early to even think about who's MVP.



I've been watching Laker basketball for over 20 years. If you really followed the sport, you'd realize that 2008 he didn't play any different than before,

he just had better teammates.

Parker or Fisher?
Kwame or Gasol?
Chris Mihm or Odom?

That whole theory about him playing within the team concept is bs when you consider he facilitated for 3 previous championship teams. The difference is the teammates. How many passes has Gasol fumbled in comparison to Kwame? Who has a better understanding of the triangle, Parker or Fisher?


Its like saying Garnett was the most selfish player in Minny because he never won. Suddenly he goes to Boston with Allen and joins Pierce and now hes a team player?

No, he just has better teammates.

Context you ****ing clown,

learn how to deal with it.

[Knoe Itawl]

There is no unwritten rules.

Writers have had an agenda against Kobe since the rape charge.

But as I said before, this is about there being no set criteria and voters making **** up as they go along.

Steve Nash has 2 MVPs,

think about that.

Man, you're an idiot. People have painstakingly pointed out to you, using detail and reason why Kobe has NOT been robbed of the MVP, based on the criteria that EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA IS AFFECTED BY. Yet, like most Kobe fans that can't see anything past "duh, Kobe da greatest. Duh" you still keep blabbing on about agendas against him and what not.

[glidedrxlr22]

Man, you're an idiot. People have painstakingly pointed out to you, using detail and reason why Kobe has NOT been robbed of the MVP, based on the criteria that EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA IS AFFECTED BY. Yet, like most Kobe fans that can't see anything past "duh, Kobe da greatest. Duh" you still keep blabbing on about agendas against him and what not.

:applause: Good to have you back for the season. Keep it real.

[zabuza666]

So you agree, there is no set standard,

just whatever the voters feel like doing that particular year.

2008 was Paul, just like last year should have been Billups.

How the hell did Billups deserve it over Lebron?

[KAJ=GOAT]

How the hell did Billups deserve it over Lebron?


Lets see,

he took a team that hadn't been first in its division for a number of years, then finally got them out of the first round and led them to the WCF.

Drastically changed how people even look at that organization.

What did Lebron do but take fake pictures and then cry like baby when he lost?

[KAJ=GOAT]

Man, you're an idiot. People have painstakingly pointed out to you, using detail and reason why Kobe has NOT been robbed of the MVP, based on the criteria that EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA IS AFFECTED BY. Yet, like most Kobe fans that can't see anything past "duh, Kobe da greatest. Duh" you still keep blabbing on about agendas against him and what not.


So long as you agree there is no set criteria and it changes from season to season,

you can call me whatever you want.


lol reason, you mean the same reasoning that changes year after year like in this exact thread?

"Kobe can't win it this year because his team is stacked".

"Kobe didn't win then because he didn't have 50 wins"

"Kobe didn't win then because he wasn't efficient".


Can you tell me what the expectations of the Lakers were in 06 and 07 by the voters?

[Knoe Itawl]

So long as you agree there is no set criteria and it changes from season to season,

you can call me whatever you want.


lol reason, you mean the same reasoning that changes year after year like in this exact thread?

"Kobe can't win it this year because his team is stacked".

"Kobe didn't win then because he didn't have 50 wins"

"Kobe didn't win then because he wasn't efficient".


Can you tell me what the expectations of the Lakers were in 06 and 07 by the voters?

I didn't say anything about whether or not the criteria was the best thing, but your problem is that you look at the NBA through Kobe colored glasses. You fail to acknowledge that EVERY OTHER NBA PLAYER is affected by the SAME THING. So you can think the criteria used is unfair or whatever, but to claim that Kobe's somehow been penalized for it is nonsense. Had he been the best player on a top (or THE top) team, then he would've won. Simple. I think Dwyane Wade had a better year overall than LeBron last year. Guess what? I accept that based on how the MVP has been handed out, he wasn't eligible last year. If you want to talk about whether or not the NBA should make the criteria more clear, change it, or whatever then that's a new discussion. I'm simply saying that your moaning about Kobe just shows what a fanatic for him you are. There have been other players that have had great seasons but didn't win MVP because they didn't fit how voters vote for the MVP yet you're not whining about them. Just stop trying to pretend poor Kobe is some special case. He's not.

[Dave3]

Lets see,

he took a team that hadn't been first in its division for a number of years, then finally got them out of the first round and led them to the WCF.

Drastically changed how people even look at that organization.

What did Lebron do but take fake pictures and then cry like baby when he lost?
Thank you sir, that is all I needed. Now I'm aware of your level of intelligence rivaling individuals like CantStop and PB.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Thank you sir, that is all I needed. Now I'm aware of your level of intelligence rivaling individuals like CantStop and PB.
Good, so stop soiling my threads with your filth.

[Abraham Lincoln]

A few predictions prior to the 2005-06 season.



From Sportsencyclopedia:

Record: 43-39

The return of Phil Jackson will mean the return of discipline for Kobe Bryant, and a return to the playoffs for the Lakers. However, the Lakers will not be anywhere near elite status as they will be at the bottom of the playoff teams exiting quickly in the first round, while Kobe makes a serious run at the scoring title.







From some ESPN analysts that likely had MVP votes:




Chris Broussard: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/21akfa8.jpg

Kobe will play out of his mind, and Phil will get the most out of a limited squad.




Ric Bucher: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/efmakz.jpg

Everything I've seen suggests this will be a long, fruitless season. Phil Jackson, Lamar Odom and Kobe Bryant insist it'll all come together. I'm compromising -- which is always deadly -- and having them eke into the playoffs.




Scoop Jackson: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/m7e34n.jpg

This pick is more about Amare missing half a season than Phil coming back.




Marc Stein: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/5yrhxi.jpg

They have no bench, major PG issues and only one All-Star talent (Odom) besides Kobe. Yet for some reason I expect the Zenmeister to overcome all that and get Kobe back to the playoffs.









And some more from ESPN prior to the 2006-07 season.




Chris Sheridan: 3rd seed

http://i37.tinypic.com/242smxe.jpg

Last season I made the mistake of underestimating the ability of Phil and Kobe to co-exist. I won't make the same error twice. In fact, Vladimir Radmanovic helps make them a 50-win team.




Scoop Jackson: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/m7e34n.jpg

They should be rated higher, but without a stronger point guard, without a different Kwame Brown and without getting KG in the offseason, Lakerland will be just what it is: Jack Bauer's world.




John Hollinger: 6th seed

http://i38.tinypic.com/aazl05.jpg

Kobe is still making his way back and Phil is getting a new hip, but Lake Show is as deep as its been in a long time with newcomers like Vladimir Radmanovic and Shammond Williams, which should get them back to the playoffs.




Chris Broussard: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/21akfa8.jpg

Kobe's competitiveness, Phil's coaching and the improvement of the supporting cast will get the Lakers into the playoffs, where they'll go down less heroically than last season.




Greg Anthony: 6th seed

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ivzip0.jpg

There's two ways to look at last season -- the success of losing Game 7 to Phoenix, or disappointment at losing Game 7 to Phoenix. Put the best player and best coach together, and good things are going to happen. Injuries are a concern, but I expect this to be a better team this season.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I didn't say anything about whether or not the criteria was the best thing, but your problem is that you look at the NBA through Kobe colored glasses. You fail to acknowledge that EVERY OTHER NBA PLAYER is affected by the SAME THING. So you can think the criteria used is unfair or whatever, but to claim that Kobe's somehow been penalized for it is nonsense. Had he been the best player on a top (or THE top) team, then he would've won. Simple. I think Dwyane Wade had a better year overall than LeBron last year. Guess what? I accept that based on how the MVP has been handed out, he wasn't eligible last year. If you want to talk about whether or not the NBA should make the criteria more clear, change it, or whatever then that's a new discussion. I'm simply saying that your moaning about Kobe just shows what a fanatic for him you are. There have been other players that have had great seasons but didn't win MVP because they didn't fit how voters vote for the MVP yet you're not whining about them. Just stop trying to pretend poor Kobe is some special case. He's not.
Well stated.

[KAJ=GOAT]

I didn't say anything about whether or not the criteria was the best thing, but your problem is that you look at the NBA through Kobe colored glasses. You fail to acknowledge that EVERY OTHER NBA PLAYER is affected by the SAME THING. So you can think the criteria used is unfair or whatever, but to claim that Kobe's somehow been penalized for it is nonsense. Had he been the best player on a top (or THE top) team, then he would've won. Simple. I think Dwyane Wade had a better year overall than LeBron last year. Guess what? I accept that based on how the MVP has been handed out, he wasn't eligible last year. If you want to talk about whether or not the NBA should make the criteria more clear, change it, or whatever then that's a new discussion. I'm simply saying that your moaning about Kobe just shows what a fanatic for him you are. There have been other players that have had great seasons but didn't win MVP because they didn't fit how voters vote for the MVP yet you're not whining about them. Just stop trying to pretend poor Kobe is some special case. He's not.


No, I didn't fail to acknowledge it was the same for every other player, as I specifically stated Paul should have gotten it in 08, and Billups last year.

This isn't even really about Kobe. I put that there to get your attention because Kobe is like crack that you homos can't put down even though you clowns confess to not like him.

This is about how there is no set criteria, its always changing from year to year. You can accept the bs thats fed to you year in and year out, but I think for myself and don't get led astray like followers do.

Kobe is a special case,

4 time NBA champion.

Not many can say that today, or in history.


So with that, suck it crybaby.

lol at thinking the team matters for an individual award.


Why aren't the other awards handled in the same manner? 50 wins, top 3 seed, etc?

Because there is no set criteria for any of these awards.


Its "Most Valuable Player", not "best player on one of the best teams" award.


Remember, the voters are the writers who are fans just like you and I. They can be just as biased as anyone out there and have proven it. They don't even watch every game thats played, so how can they even have a proper assessment of what each player is doing?

They can't.

They just watch a few games, see highlights of others and read the boxscores.

Flawed system with no set criteria.

[KAJ=GOAT]

A few predictions prior to the 2005-06 season.



From Sportsencyclopedia:

Record: 43-39

The return of Phil Jackson will mean the return of discipline for Kobe Bryant, and a return to the playoffs for the Lakers. However, the Lakers will not be anywhere near elite status as they will be at the bottom of the playoff teams exiting quickly in the first round, while Kobe makes a serious run at the scoring title.







From some ESPN analysts that likely had MVP votes:




Chris Broussard: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/21akfa8.jpg

Kobe will play out of his mind, and Phil will get the most out of a limited squad.




Ric Bucher: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/efmakz.jpg

Everything I've seen suggests this will be a long, fruitless season. Phil Jackson, Lamar Odom and Kobe Bryant insist it'll all come together. I'm compromising -- which is always deadly -- and having them eke into the playoffs.




Scoop Jackson: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/m7e34n.jpg

This pick is more about Amare missing half a season than Phil coming back.




Marc Stein: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/5yrhxi.jpg

They have no bench, major PG issues and only one All-Star talent (Odom) besides Kobe. Yet for some reason I expect the Zenmeister to overcome all that and get Kobe back to the playoffs.









And some more from ESPN prior to the 2006-07 season.




Chris Sheridan: 3rd seed

http://i37.tinypic.com/242smxe.jpg

Last season I made the mistake of underestimating the ability of Phil and Kobe to co-exist. I won't make the same error twice. In fact, Vladimir Radmanovic helps make them a 50-win team.




Scoop Jackson: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/m7e34n.jpg

They should be rated higher, but without a stronger point guard, without a different Kwame Brown and without getting KG in the offseason, Lakerland will be just what it is: Jack Bauer's world.




John Hollinger: 6th seed

http://i38.tinypic.com/aazl05.jpg

Kobe is still making his way back and Phil is getting a new hip, but Lake Show is as deep as its been in a long time with newcomers like Vladimir Radmanovic and Shammond Williams, which should get them back to the playoffs.




Chris Broussard: 8th seed

http://i36.tinypic.com/21akfa8.jpg

Kobe's competitiveness, Phil's coaching and the improvement of the supporting cast will get the Lakers into the playoffs, where they'll go down less heroically than last season.




Greg Anthony: 6th seed

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ivzip0.jpg

There's two ways to look at last season -- the success of losing Game 7 to Phoenix, or disappointment at losing Game 7 to Phoenix. Put the best player and best coach together, and good things are going to happen. Injuries are a concern, but I expect this to be a better team this season.



Wow, 9 freaking votes out of how many? 127.
For 2 different seasons!

whoodee****ing whoo. You certainly got me there.


This is the trip thing though,


you don't even know if they are voters. You're assuming.

lol.

try again.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Its "Most Valuable Player", not "best player on one of the best teams" award.
Wrong. This has been the method of evaluation for quite some time. Next will be told the GM's and coaches that voted for the unnofficial Sporting News MVP don't watch games either?


This isn't even really about Kobe. I put that there to get your attention because Kobe is like crack that you homos can't put down even though you clowns confess to not like him.

Wrong again, this is a horrid backpedal attempt as usual.


Kobe is a special case,

4 time NBA champion.

Not many can say that today, or in history.

This is not relevant in determining a single season MVP award winner.



lol at thinking the team matters for an individual award.
...

No, I didn't fail to acknowledge it was the same for every other player, as I specifically stated Paul should have gotten it in 08, and Billups last year.

Took long enough.

Would have been ideal to properly present said views on the method of determining the MVP award and a possible suggestion. Perhaps, there would have been constructive talk in this thread, with Lakers fans and non Lakers fans alike.



How should the MVP award be determined?

MVP criteria: What is it?

The MVP should go to the best player in the NBA period!
..



Something that you knew would not attract trolls, as you intended. With a proper thread title and approach, an example of Bryant would have been presented in the thread.




Shame on you man, you better still not be a **** mod.

[Dave3]

Wow, 9 freaking votes out of how many? 127.
For 2 different seasons!

whoodee****ing whoo. You certainly got me there.


This is the trip thing though,


you don't even know if they are voters. You're assuming.

lol.

try again.
And how many published sources do you have making predictions of 12th seed and lower? 0? Well, then he wins since he actually backed up what he said with 9 sources whereas you have absolutely nothing:)

[BlazersDozen]

We know its happened a few times in the past already,

but what excuse will people try to use to justify not giving Kobe MVP this season?

Because he's playing next to Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol and Andruw Bynum while Carmelo only has Billups, James will end up doing everything himself again, Wade has only Beasley, Paul has nobody and Howard is exciting as Hell.

[icemanfan]

I never said anything about finals, I was talking about 50 regular season wins...
that is what the Spurs have had , 50 plus wins every ****ing year for 11 years and counting. So .............Tim Duncan should have more than two MVP's?

[Dave3]

that is what the Spurs have had , 50 plus wins every ****ing year for 11 years and counting. So .............Tim Duncan should have more than two MVP's?
What does that have to do with my post? My post was about a 50 win minimum during the regular season to be a leading candidate for MVP...

[icemanfan]

What does that have to do with my post? My post was about a 50 win minimum during the regular season to be a leading candidate for MVP...
should there be a set of criteria? Prob, but there is none and we don't get a vote. I would rather have the finals MVP for any Spur than league MVP. The guys that are somehow trying to say that Kobe was robbed are worried more about personal glory for their god than being happy with the Championship. If Tim Duncan had been a Laker he would be so famous worldwide it would be sickening. Be happy your in a huge TV market and quite buying into the hype machine.

[Dave3]

should there be a set of criteria? Prob, but there is none and we don't get a vote. I would rather have the finals MVP for any Spur than league MVP. The guys that are somehow trying to say that Kobe was robbed are worried more about personal glory for their god than being happy with the Championship. If Tim Duncan had been a Laker he would be so famous worldwide it would be sickening. Be happy your in a huge TV market and quite buying into the hype machine.
I'm not a Kobe fan nor live in LA. I've been arguing AGAINST Kobe being robbed...I think you misunderstood my post...

[KAJ=GOAT]

Wrong. This has been the method of evaluation for quite some time. Next will be told the GM's and coaches that voted for the unnofficial Sporting News MVP don't watch games either?



Wrong again, this is a horrid backpedal attempt as usual.



This is not relevant in determining a single season MVP award winner.



...


Took long enough.

Would have been ideal to properly present said views on the method of determining the MVP award and a possible suggestion. Perhaps, there would have been constructive talk in this thread, with Lakers fans and non Lakers fans alike.



How should the MVP award be determined?

MVP criteria: What is it?

The MVP should go to the best player in the NBA period!
..



Something that you knew would not attract trolls, as you intended. With a proper thread title and approach, an example of Bryant would have been presented in the thread.




Shame on you man, you better still not be a **** mod.


Look you fickle trick,

I make my threads how I want and there isn't a thing your sissy ass will do about it.

You can either chime in with your banter, or simply ignore it.

Pretty much like I do with threads I'm not feeling.

Kobe is a special player, that makes you mad, so I'm excited!:rockon:


Its a flawed system that has screwed not only Kobe, but many others as well.

Now go :cry: somewhere as the Lakers continue their charge to 16.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

wow you guys are still going at it? :ohwell:

[plowking]

Lets see,

he took a team that hadn't been first in its division for a number of years, then finally got them out of the first round and led them to the WCF.

Drastically changed how people even look at that organization.

What did Lebron do but take fake pictures and then cry like baby when he lost?

So basically let me sum this up.

You are bitter because Lebron won an MVP award and you wish Kobe had more.

Look at the MVP's of the past 30 years as you like to say. None have won with a record of less than 50 wins. So your point is nullified.

What's your argument now? Nothing.

Kobe didn't deserve it last season because Lebron won more games and had better stats. The year he did win it, he fitted the criteria which is layed out. 50 wins and good stats.

Game, set, match?

Go cry in a corner somewhere b!tch.

[Abraham Lincoln]

Look you fickle trick,

I make my threads how I want and there isn't a thing your sissy ass will do about it.

You can either chime in with your banter, or simply ignore it.

Pretty much like I do with threads I'm not feeling.

Kobe is a special player, that makes you mad, so I'm excited!:rockon:


Its a flawed system that has screwed not only Kobe, but many others as well.

Now go :cry: somewhere as the Lakers continue their charge to 16.
One can only wonder how the admin saw fit to appoint you to perform moderation duties.

Reported.

[KAJ=GOAT]

So basically let me sum this up.

You are bitter because Lebron won an MVP award and you wish Kobe had more.

Look at the MVP's of the past 30 years as you like to say. None have won with a record of less than 50 wins. So your point is nullified.

What's your argument now? Nothing.

Kobe didn't deserve it last season because Lebron won more games and had better stats. The year he did win it, he fitted the criteria which is layed out. 50 wins and good stats.

Game, set, match?

Go cry in a corner somewhere b!tch.

That might be true,


if,

I hadn't already said that,


Paul deserved it in 08,

and


Billups deserved it last year.


You just double faulted Agassi!:hammerhead:

[KAJ=GOAT]

One can only wonder how the admin saw fit to appoint you to perform moderation duties.

Reported.
:rockon:

[KAJ=GOAT]

Because he's playing next to Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol and Andruw Bynum while Carmelo only has Billups, James will end up doing everything himself again, Wade has only Beasley, Paul has nobody and Howard is exciting as Hell.


Magic had
Kareem- All star
Worthy-All star
Cooper-DPOY all defensive 1st team

Larry Bird had
Parrish-All star
McHale- All star, 6th man of year
Johnson- all defensive 2nd team

Jordan had
Pippen - all defensive 1st team, all NBA 3rd team
Rodman -rebounding leader-grabbed more than 200 boards than anyone else

Russell had
Cousy all NBA 2nd team, All star
Sam Jones All star


I haven't even mentioned the role players who didn't get a personal achievement but were key components in their teams success,


since you want to make that type of comparison.


Apparently,

it doesn't matter who your teammates are or what they do to help in the success of the team when one wins an MVP award.

Pretty funny eh?


"he has a stacked team so he can't win"

:roll:

[plowking]

That might be true,


if,

I hadn't already said that,


Paul deserved it in 08,

and


Billups deserved it last year.


You just double faulted Agassi!:hammerhead:

How does a guy on a 54 win team deserve it over a guy on a 66 win team with better stats? Not just a little bit better, but one of the best statlines in recent history.

Stop pretending that you thought Paul deserved it last year. You're happier than a fat kid with a cake in front of him that Kobe got MVP.

And answer the question. How has the MVP criteria changed, when in the last 30 years, as you said, there hasn't been an MVP winner that has won less than 50 games with his team?

Served...

[plowking]

Because he's playing next to Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol and Andruw Bynum while Carmelo only has Billups, James will end up doing everything himself again, Wade has only Beasley, Paul has nobody and Howard is exciting as Hell.

How can you say Wade has Beasley, and then say Paul has nobody?

Both David West and Okafor are better than anybody on the Heat squad.

[KAJ=GOAT]

How does a guy on a 54 win team deserve it over a guy on a 66 win team with better stats? Not just a little bit better, but one of the best statlines in recent history.

Stop pretending that you thought Paul deserved it last year. You're happier than a fat kid with a cake in front of him that Kobe got MVP.

And answer the question. How has the MVP criteria changed, when in the last 30 years, as you said, there hasn't been an MVP winner that has won less than 50 games with his team?

Served...


lol, another one who seems to know how I feel, what I type and why.

Where do you get your weed at big dog?


How does a man win an MVP when his team has a 38-44 record?


Return Ace.

[plowking]

lol, another one who seems to know how I feel, what I type and why.

Where do you get your weed at big dog?


How does a man win an MVP when his team has a 38-44 record?


Return Ace.

Didn't happen in the last 30 years as you asked for. Stop changing your criteria now.

There hasn't been an MVP with less than 50 wins in the last 30 years. Hence why Kobe didn't win in 06.

[KAJ=GOAT]

Didn't happen in the last 30 years as you asked for. Stop changing your criteria now.

There hasn't been an MVP with less than 50 wins in the last 30 years. Hence why Kobe didn't win in 06.


Doesn't matter when it happened. The fact is, its a part of NBA history.


Btw,

I've never mentioned my criteria.

"step ya game up"

[Allstar24]

Man...plowking is annoying. The guy's always hating on someone...be it Kobe, LeBron or CP3. I remember last year he was hating on LeBron all throughout the playoffs. Then he turned on CP3 and Kobe...such a bitter Wade fan :oldlol:

[plowking]

Man...plowking is annoying. The guy's always hating on someone...be it Kobe, LeBron or CP3. I remember last year he was hating on LeBron all throughout the playoffs. Then he turned on CP3 and Kobe...such a bitter Wade fan :oldlol:

Yeah, that's the one. Go look in the CP3 threads on the front page, I'm such a hater...

I'm a bitter player fan am I? I'm not the one with a player reference in my username riding on one players nuuts...

[Allstar24]

Yeah, that's the one. Go look in the CP3 threads on the front page, I'm such a hater...

I'm a bitter player fan am I? I'm not the one with a player reference in my username riding on one players nuuts...
Uh...how does having a Kobe avatar and reference in my username make me bitter? Yes I happen to be a fan of the best player on my favorite team. But unlike you, I don't have irrational hate for other great players. You're the one going to gamethreads (esp during the playoffs) and hating on LeBron and CP3, don't try to deny it because I can pull them up. You're just annoying...pretending to be unbiased when in fact, you're one of Wade's biggest groupies on this board and just as bad as the Kobe/LeBron groupies.

[plowking]

Uh...how does having a Kobe avatar and reference in my username make me bitter? Yes I happen to be a fan of the best player on my favorite team. But unlike you, I don't have irrational hate for other great players. You're the one going to gamethreads (esp during the playoffs) and hating on LeBron and CP3, don't try to deny it because I can pull them up. You're just annoying...pretending to be unbiased when in fact, you're one of Wade's biggest groupies on this board and just as bad as the Kobe/LeBron groupies.

Go on, pull it up.
The only thing I possibly said about Lebron is getting a few easy calls. CP3? I don't remember mentioning him during the playoffs.

[AirJordan23]

Didn't happen in the last 30 years as you asked for. Stop changing your criteria now.

There hasn't been an MVP with less than 50 wins in the last 30 years. Hence why Kobe didn't win in 06.
I'm pretty sure Moses Malone won the '82 MVP with the Rockets winning only 46 games. I've no idea regarding why he won it, his competition or the circumstances around it but just throwing it out there. In his '79 MVP season, the Rockets also finished with a below 50 win (47-35) record.

[glidedrxlr22]

If Laker fanatics feel Kobe was robbed, then how many other players were robbed cause of some of Kobe

[EllEffEll]

I don't see Kobe as ever being robbed of the MVP and I think he was (arguably) deserving in 2008 :pimp:

[sixer6ad]

I don't see Kobe as ever being robbed of the MVP and I think he was (arguably) deserving in 2008 :pimp:

Maybe it's his clutch performance:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html