Why Macs cost more

[mbell75]

The ability to work with RAW photos and HD video....is that asking to much from Windows?

Let me preface this by saying I was a Windows user my whole life up until 2 years ago when I got fed up and switched to Mac. Been very happy ever since, everything works perfectly. Well, I needed a laptop and didnt really want to spend $2k for a Macbook I was only going to use on occasion, and I have heard great things about Windows 7, so I bought a Windows based laptop. Big mistake :banghead:

I shoot photos and videos for a living and need a laptop I can actually use while away from home. Windows is still in the dark ages when it comes to HD video and RAW photos. Sure, I can import AVCHD video into Windows Movie Maker, but the most you can output to is 8 Mbps WTF? Whats the point of shooting in 24 Mbps? The built in Windows image viewer/editor is just as bad. No native RAW support still? Is this 2009 or 2004? :rolleyes:

I am not looking for some top of the line programs here. Just something to be able to view RAW images and a simple edit to some HD vids. Arent most people shooting these things? So basically I have to pay extra to install 3rd party software into this thing to do what I can do with imovie and iphoto that comes free on a Mac. Just one reason I will gladly pay more a Mac in the future because this is seriously frustrating.

[~primetime~]

The ability to work with RAW photos and HD video....is that asking to much from Windows?

Let me preface this by saying I was a Windows user my whole life up until 2 years ago when I got fed up and switched to Mac. Been very happy ever since, everything works perfectly. Well, I needed a laptop and didnt really want to spend $2k for a Macbook I was only going to use on occasion, and I have heard great things about Windows 7, so I bought a Windows based laptop. Big mistake :banghead:

I shoot photos and videos for a living and need a laptop I can actually use while away from home. Windows is still in the dark ages when it comes to HD video and RAW photos. Sure, I can import AVCHD video into Windows Movie Maker, but the most you can output to is 8 Mbps WTF? Whats the point of shooting in 24 Mbps? The built in Windows image viewer/editor is just as bad. No native RAW support still? Is this 2009 or 2004? :rolleyes:

I am not looking for some top of the line programs here. Just something to be able to view RAW images and a simple edit to some HD vids. Arent most people shooting these things? So basically I have to pay extra to install 3rd party software into this thing to do what I can do with imovie and iphoto that comes free on a Mac. Just one reason I will gladly pay more a Mac in the future because this is seriously frustrating.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc94/Dl4All/dl4all/Adobe-After-Effects.jpg


^^^

learn it

you shoot photos for a living, all of this sh*t should be a tax write off, computer and all the software...

I have to say though I have never heard of photographer/graphic artist doing professional work on any laptop...but I guess if you have to travel that is your only choice...that would bother the hell out of me...you aren't gonna get proper color display on any laptop monitor...

[mbell75]

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc94/Dl4All/dl4all/Adobe-After-Effects.jpg


^^^

learn it

you shoot photos for a living, all of this sh*t should be a tax write off, computer and all the software...

I have to say though I have never heard of photographer/graphic artist doing professional work on any laptop...but I guess if you have to travel that is your only choice...that would bother the hell out of me...you aren't gonna get proper color display on any laptop monitor...

Thanks but the point is, I need to at least be able to LOOK at what I have shot. Even thats a huge challenge, let alone trying to edit. If I am paying a grand for the laptop and another grand to buy an Adobe program just for light editing, I might as well just spend that 2 grand on a Macbook and be done with it.

[~primetime~]

Thanks but the point is, I need to at least be able to LOOK at what I have shot. Even thats a huge challenge, let alone trying to edit.
you can look at anything in Adobe After Effects...HD movies of any format

and the RAW Photos...why not just Adobe Photoshop?


I guess I am not understanding what the issue is...are you just claiming that Windows 7 won't allow either regardless of the software?

[IlliniFan]

So Macs cost more because they make you pay for features in programs that most people will never use? Good to know.

[mbell75]

So Macs cost more because they make you pay for features in programs that most people will never use? Good to know.

Dont most people these days shoot HD video and RAW photos? :confusedshrug:

Thanks primetime, but why would I want to pay $1k to install Photoshop onto this laptop just to LOOK at photos I have shot? I just find it ridiculous that Windows cant put these simple things into a brand new OS. Mac has had the ability to do these things on their computers for years. Guess I should have looked into Windows 7 more before I bought a laptop.

[andgar923]

So Macs cost more because they make you pay for features in programs that most people will never use? Good to know.

Actually no.

They cost more because they're a 'premium' built computer, just like any other top of the line OEM.

Its the overall quality of the computer and of course, Apple has software that most people will find useful. Software such as their iLife suite that comes with every new Mac for FREE.

Or put it like this.....

A pc with the most expensive Windows 7 version is gonna cost more money, because it has more features and it also requires higher minimum requirements, than the cheapest Windows 7 version.

There is only ONE version of OS X for everybody, so pros, creative type, normal users all get the same benefits and great software. To get pc versions of iPhoto, iMovie, Garage Band, iWeb, and iDVD you'll have to spend hundreds of dollars altogether and they won't work as seamless with each other, the system and other apps like they do.

You might be thinking.. "I don't need that stuff" but its FREE in every new Mac, regardless of model or price.

And we haven't even covered Apple's superior workflow, dependability, elegance, security, etc.etc. a few of the reasons why many pros (from various industries) overwhelmingly prefer to use Macs.

[chains5000]

Go tell all the people that just use their computers to check their email and update their facebook status.

[chains5000]

And we haven't even covered Apple's superior workflow, dependability, elegance, security, etc.etc. a few of the reasons why many pros (from various industries) overwhelmingly prefer to use Macs.
That's debatable.
I've spent 6 years on software developing in several different companies and I've NEVER used or seen anybody using a Mac.
It's always Windows or Linux.

[~primetime~]

Dont most people these days shoot HD video and RAW photos? :confusedshrug:

Thanks primetime, but why would I want to pay $1k to install Photoshop onto this laptop just to LOOK at photos I have shot? I just find it ridiculous that Windows cant put these simple things into a brand new OS. Mac has had the ability to do these things on their computers for years. Guess I should have looked into Windows 7 more before I bought a laptop.
well first off you can get a crack version of photoshop from a 10 year old for free...

second, there are plenty of cheap ass image viewers you can purchase also...

after just googling "raw image viewer" there seems to be a ton of stuff out there that is free even...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=raw+image+viewer&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10

[andgar923]

Go tell all the people that just use their computers to check their email and update their facebook status.

Then I'd recommend a Mac Mini.

It'll relieve them from the headaches and troubleshooting that come with having a pc, since most of those users are on the avg regular users that aren't very tech savvy. They're the ones that usually pick up bad surfing habits and end up having computer problems.

I gave my dad my Mac Mini and he didn't really understand what the big deal was about Macs, he never used a computer before so he wasn't tech savvy enough.

I showed him how to use it, and he learned little by little on his own.

It wasn't until he saw his co-workers having problems with their winpcs, and he wasn't having any of those same issues. He noticed how problematic their pcs were and how he wasn't having issues (aside from not knowing how to do certain things because well.... he had never used a computer before). That's when he started to understand the ease of use, dependability, elegance, workflow, etc.etc.etc.

So those people should get a Mac Mini.... it'll save them some headaches.

[andgar923]

That's debatable.
I've spent 6 years on software developing in several different companies and I've NEVER used or seen anybody using a Mac.
It's always Windows or Linux.

That's fair, I guess it depends on which industry one is referring too.

[chains5000]

Then I'd recommend a Mac Mini.

It'll relieve them from the headaches and troubleshooting that come with having a pc, since most of those users are on the avg regular users that aren't very tech savvy. They're the ones that usually pick up bad surfing habits and end up having computer problems.

I gave my dad my Mac Mini and he didn't really understand what the big deal was about Macs, he never used a computer before so he wasn't tech savvy enough.

I showed him how to use it, and he learned little by little on his own.

It wasn't until he saw his co-workers having problems with their winpcs, and he wasn't having any of those same issues. He noticed how problematic their pcs were and how he wasn't having issues (aside from not knowing how to do certain things because well.... he had never used a computer before). That's when he started to understand the ease of use, dependability, elegance, workflow, etc.etc.etc.

So those people should get a Mac Mini.... it'll save them some headaches.
Just checked, they cost 549+

[chains5000]

This is not me hating on Macs, I'd also tell most people not to buy a Windows PC over 500

[~primetime~]

I think something like 92% of the business world uses a PC, and like 8% Mac...(something like that)

Macs are used by home users and some graphic artists...and students...

I have to use a PC, because they don't have the proper software on a Mac for my line of work...

PCs have about like...1,000x more software available...

infact, it is so overwhelming that I believe Macs now have an option to run Windows on a Mac...

and the only reason Macs have better security is because no one makes any viruses for Macs, because no one owns a Mac...

[chains5000]

infact, it is so overwhelming that I believe Macs now have an option to run Windows on a Mac...
You can run anything on anything.

[RoseCity07]

I love my macbook, I basically live on it. I just like how everything is simple, and the computer looks way better than anything out there.

Apple does over price their products though. The crappy Safari web browser crashes all the time. The updates don't slow down the computer nearly as much as microsoft updates.

We all notice that the performance of XP goes down hill as you do the updates. No really the case with OSX.

[~primetime~]

here is the OP's problem:


http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww57/sirianjazz/mac-pc-motorcycle-777073.jpg




he just needs to learn how to ride his bike, and once he does, he will be able to fly...

[andgar923]

[QUOTE=chains5000]Just checked, they cost 549+

[~primetime~]

You can run anything on anything.
bullsh*t

I am 3D artist...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13577897

^^^ not on a Mac

http://www.pixologic.com/home.php

^^^ not available for the Mac

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=13567410&siteID=123112

^^^ you can't run that on a Mac...



there is almost no 3D software available on Macs...


YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY 99% OF COMPUTER GAMES ON A MAC!!!

[Positive]

bullsh*t

I am 3D artist...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13577897

^^^ not on a Mac

http://www.pixologic.com/home.php

^^^ not available for the Mac

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=13567410&siteID=123112

^^^ you can't run that on a Mac...



there is almost no 3D software available on Macs...


YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY 99% OF COMPUTER GAMES ON A MAC!!!

I think he was talking about running any type operating system on any type of computer, not software.

[~primetime~]

I think he was talking about running any type operating system on any type of computer, not software.
is that even true ?

even if it is true, I just don't see the point...

why buy a Mac to run Windows? (I have seen that)...or why by a PC to have it run a Mac OS (never seen or heard of that)

[mbell75]

here is the OP's problem:


http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww57/sirianjazz/mac-pc-motorcycle-777073.jpg




he just needs to learn how to ride his bike, and once he does, he will be able to fly...


Ummm, not really. The fact that this is almost 2010 and Windows STILL cannot find a way to let users view and edit HD videos and RAW photos without using 3rd party software is pretty pathetic and shows how behind the times they are. Hell, imovie 06 worked with HD files :rolleyes: The only thing this laptop is good for out of the box is browsing the web. I could get a netbook for $150 to do that.

[chains5000]

bullsh*t

I am 3D artist...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13577897

^^^ not on a Mac

http://www.pixologic.com/home.php

^^^ not available for the Mac

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=13567410&siteID=123112

^^^ you can't run that on a Mac...



there is almost no 3D software available on Macs...


YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY 99% OF COMPUTER GAMES ON A MAC!!!
I meant you can run any OS on any OS (via virtual machine).
I thought you were talking about that.

[chains5000]

Ummm, not really. The fact that this is almost 2010 and Windows STILL cannot find a way to let users view and edit HD videos and RAW photos without using 3rd party software is pretty pathetic and shows how behind the times they are. Hell, imovie 06 worked with HD files :rolleyes:
You mean Windows after install doesn't come with a program to do that or there's no windows program to edit those files?

If it's the 1st, good thing, I doubt Microsoft wants another Internet Explorer situation (remember the trials).
If it's the 2nd, then you haven't searched enough.

[mbell75]

You mean Windows after install doesn't come with a program to do that or there's no windows program to edit those files?

If it's the 1st, good thing, I doubt Microsoft wants another Internet Explorer situation (remember the trials).
If it's the 2nd, then you haven't searched enough.

Go back and read my original post...

[chains5000]

Security
Dependability
Get a Linux system then.
Great security and FREE.

Also, you can get good firewall and antivirus software with the price difference between Mac and Windows.

[chains5000]

Go back and read my original post...
Go search sourceforge for what you're looking for.

[~primetime~]

Ummm, not really. The fact that this is almost 2010 and Windows STILL cannot find a way to let users view and edit HD videos and RAW photos without using 3rd party software is pretty pathetic and shows how behind the times they are. Hell, imovie 06 worked with HD files :rolleyes: The only thing this laptop is good for out of the box is browsing the web. I could get a netbook for $150 to do that.
dude, no offense but you are a professional...

you should NOT be relying on dinky base software that comes with any comp...

do you use MS Paint to edit your photos?....no, you use the software that gives you the best results...


here:

http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/


^^^ RAW image viewer for Windows 7...FREE

If I were you though, I would look around and find one you like...

THAT is what makes PC better...there are 1000 different types of softeware out there FOR YOU TO CHOOSE FROM...unlike a Mac, where you are just relying on whatever BS they come packaged with...

learn how to ride your bike...not trying to insult, but that you just have to work a little harder with a PC...

[andgar923]

bullsh*t

I am 3D artist...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=13577897

^^^ not on a Mac


Yes on a Mac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oridqoVdzug

http://www.pixologic.com/home.php

^^^ not available for the Mac

Yes on a Mac: http://www.pixologic.com/zbrushMac/


http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=13567410&siteID=123112

^^^ you can't run that on a Mac...
Yes on a Mac: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0WXLPz08NM


there is almost no 3D software available on Macs...


YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY 99% OF COMPUTER GAMES ON A MAC!!!

YOu might wanna check out Autodesk's own web site: http://usa.autodesk.com/products/mac-compatible-products

You might wanna do more research on the "almost o 3D software available on Macs".

And as far as gaming on Macs.... that argument is so 2007 dude.... really.

You can even run Crysis on a Mac Mini, let alone a higher end Mac.

Most big games are also released natively for Macs bro.

[mbell75]

Go search sourceforge for what you're looking for.


Maybe I am spoiled with Mac, but I shouldnt need to pay for and install 3rd party software to do basic things like HD video and RAW photo files on a brand new computer thats just released a new OS :rolleyes: I paid $1k for this and its running Windows 7 premium 64 bit, not like its some cheap model

[Positive]

Maybe I am spoiled with Mac, but I shouldnt need to pay for and install 3rd party software to do basic things like HD video and RAW photo files on a brand new computer thats just released a new OS :rolleyes: I paid $1k for this and its running Windows 7 premium 64 bit, not like its some cheap model


dude seriously look at half the responses here, they're trying to help you out but all you can say is "since I have to look for it on my own it's not worth it." I'm sure you can find a damn good program that is free, perhaps one of the many that prime suggested. Jesus, it's not hard at all to google something.

[chains5000]

Maybe I am spoiled with Mac, but I shouldnt need to pay for and install 3rd party software to do basic things like HD video and RAW photo files on a brand new computer thats just released a new OS :rolleyes: I paid $1k for this and its running Windows 7 premium 64 bit, not like its some cheap model
It's not being spoilt. Windows controls a huge % of computers, you can bet anything the EEC would sue them if they offer any programs that can monopolize it's market.

[andgar923]

Get a Linux system then.
Great security and FREE.

Also, you can get good firewall and antivirus software with the price difference between Mac and Windows.

I've tried Ubuntu, but I wasn't digging it.

Coming from Mac OS X it seemed like a task to use. I can dig certain features and its openness and stuff, but I can't use that as my day to day computer.

Computers are supposed to make our job easy, and running Linux at times seems like a hassle.

I also don't get the Mac apps and seamless integration with Linux.

Even if I don't need apps to work seamless with one another, having that option and knowing that its there really helps.

I am thinking of building a Linuxbox whenever I have some money to build one (i just got a pt job after being unemployed for almost a year).

[chains5000]

I've tried Ubuntu, but I wasn't digging it.

Coming from Mac OS X it seemed like a task to use. I can dig certain features and its openness and stuff, but I can't use that as my day to day computer.

Computers are supposed to make our job easy, and running Linux at times seems like a hassle.

I also don't get the Mac apps and seamless integration with Linux.

Even if I don't need apps to work seamless with one another, having that option and knowing that its there really helps.

I am thinking of building a Linuxbox whenever I have some money to build one (i just got a pt job after being unemployed for almost a year).
You can get nice linux computers for like 195

[andgar923]

dude, no offense but you are a professional...

you should NOT be relying on dinky base software that comes with any comp...

do you use MS Paint to edit your photos?....no, you use the software that gives you the best results...


here:

http://www.fastpictureviewer.com/codecs/


^^^ RAW image viewer for Windows 7...FREE

If I were you though, I would look around and find one you like...

THAT is what makes PC better...there are 1000 different types of softeware out there FOR YOU TO CHOOSE FROM...unlike a Mac, where you are just relying on whatever BS they come packaged with...

learn how to ride your bike...not trying to insult, but that you just have to work a little harder with a PC...

Doesn't it speak volumes of the 'quality' of those 'BS' applications (http://www.apple.com/ilife/) that come with Macs?

[~primetime~]

YOu might wanna check out Autodesk's own web site: http://usa.autodesk.com/products/mac-compatible-products

You might wanna do more research on the "almost o 3D software available on Macs".

And as far as gaming on Macs.... that argument is so 2007 dude.... really.

You can even run Crysis on a Mac Mini, let alone a higher end Mac.

Most big games are also released natively for Macs bro.
hmm...you are right about maya...looks like you can now get that on a Mac..wow

3D Max is available for Macs that are running Windows...come on

the ZBrush Mac version I am not familiar with...but it looks to be different than the PC version that is industry standard...it is called 3.12B...:confusedshrug:


also, I have been in the indusrty almost 10 years now and have never encoutered a single Mac user...they are nice comps, it is just that they are very limited...unless I guess you have a Mac running Windows...

[~primetime~]

Maybe I am spoiled with Mac, but I shouldnt need to pay for and install 3rd party software to do basic things like HD video and RAW photo files on a brand new computer thats just released a new OS :rolleyes: I paid $1k for this and its running Windows 7 premium 64 bit, not like its some cheap model
I have given you multiple links for free software that does what you want...

it just seems to me that you are to lazy to customize or hunt down what it is you need...

Photoshop comes with a thumnail browser too...and as a professional you should have Photoshop on everything...it is a must have.

[andgar923]

[QUOTE=chains5000]You can get nice linux computers for like 195

[~primetime~]

Doesn't it speak volumes of the 'quality' of those 'BS' applications (http://www.apple.com/ilife/) that come with Macs?
^^^ that is for kids or grandparents to browse family photos dude...:oldlol:

NO, that does not speak volumes at all...

[mbell75]

I have given you multiple links for free software that does what you want...

it just seems to me that you are to lazy to customize or hunt down what it is you need...

Photoshop comes with a thumnail browser too...and as a professional you should have Photoshop on everything...it is a must have.

yea, I checked those out. Not bad, thanks. Still doesnt solve my video problem though. I have 14 days to decide if I want to take the laptop back though I think. We'll see.

[andgar923]

hmm...you are right about maya...looks like you can now get that on a Mac..wow

3D Max is available for Macs that are running Windows...come on

the ZBrush Mac version I am not familiar with...but it looks to be different than the PC version that is industry standard...it is called 3.12B...:confusedshrug:


also, I have been in the indusrty almost 10 years now and have never encoutered a single Mac user...they are nice comps, it is just that they are very limited...unless I guess you have a Mac running Windows...

It seems as if Apple is just entering the 3-D imaging industry... dunno?

But wouldn't Pixar be considered part of that industry?

They use Macs almost exclusively.

[andgar923]

^^^ that is for kids or grandparents to browse family photos dude...:oldlol:

NO, that does not speak volumes at all...

I dunno too much about imagine or video but this isn't aimed at the pro consumer, although some might find some of its features handy for light work. And apparently MBell finds it useful, which again must mean something.

[~primetime~]

It seems as if Apple is just entering the 3-D imaging industry... dunno?

But wouldn't Pixar be considered part of that industry?

They use Macs almost exclusively.
Wasn't PIXAR liked owned by Apple though?...:oldlol:

I would bet money there are still alot of PCs in that MFer...

all their software is house built...



run into LUCUS ARTS and see if you can find any Macs...

[~primetime~]

yea, I checked those out. Not bad, thanks. Still doesnt solve my video problem though. I have 14 days to decide if I want to take the laptop back though I think. We'll see.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/HDVideo.aspx

^^^ HD Video viewer for Windows 7



yeah dude, with a PC your gonna have to customize alot of things on your own...get it working the way that you like...

[andgar923]

Isn't PIXAR liked owned by Apple though?...:oldlol:

I would bet money there are still alot of PCs in that MFer...

all their software is house built...



run into LUCUS ARTS and see if you can find any Macs...

That may be true but they're using Macs, no?

And I highly doubt that anything related to Jobs will run Windows pcs. Like you said, their software is house built, but they're running them on Macs. But they weren't always like that, they just made the switch to Macs in 04 I believe.

As far as LucasArts, I'm sure they use Winpcs.... but I wouldn't be surprised if they also have an arsenal of Macs either.

[~primetime~]

That may be true but they're using Macs, no?

And I highly doubt that anything related to Jobs will run Windows pcs. Like you said, their software is house built, but they're running them on Macs. But they weren't always like that, they just made the switch to Macs in 04 I believe.

As far as LucasArts, I'm sure they use Winpcs.... but I wouldn't be surprised if they also have an arsenal of Macs either.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=5562767

^^^ that is the software used by Hollywood to composite special effects into film...can't find it for Mac

On a side note I have heard that if you know that software you are rich...I have heard rumors of being paid like $$$ thousands by the hour...it is just not taught anywhere...there aren't that many people that can use it...

[YAWN]

also, I have been in the indusrty almost 10 years now and have never encoutered a single Mac user...they are nice comps, it is just that they are very limited...unless I guess you have a Mac running Windows...

i work in a different industry, but most of the people i come across work on macs. all of my artists use macs, all of the producers ive worked with use macs, the lions share of managers i work with use macs, the lions share of agents i work with use macs, most of the labels i deal with have a bunch of macs.. etc etc

i actually know about 10 people in the industry that have the apple tattooed on their body.

[~primetime~]

i work in a different industry, but most of the people i come across work on macs. all of my artists use macs, all of the producers ive worked with use macs, the lions share of managers i work with use macs, the lions share of agents i work with use macs, most of the labels i deal with have a bunch of macs.. etc etc

i actually know about 10 people in the industry that have the apple tattooed on their body.
Macs are popular with alot of graphic artists...yeah

3D artists are different though...

and 10 people with an apple tat is kind just strange...:ohwell:

what industry are you in?

[YAWN]

Macs are popular with alot of graphic artists...yeah

3D artists are different though...

and 10 people with an apple tat is kind just strange...:ohwell:

what industry are you in?

i think its strange too but for some reason these machines make us owners so passionate about them..

i work in the music industry.

[andgar923]

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=5562767

^^^ that is the software used by Hollywood to composite special effects into film...can't find it for Mac

On a side note I have heard that if you know that software you are rich...I have heard rumors of being paid like $$$ thousands by the hour...it is just not taught anywhere...there aren't that many people that can use it...

Hollywood uses both Windows and Macs, at times on the same project.

They'll edit something on Avid then they'll use After effects, then they'll use Motion and Final Cut all on the same project.

Hollywood doesn't seem to be as biased as much as other industries.

For example..... the music industry is dominated by Macs.

And the great thing about having a Mac is.... you can run both softwares.

[~primetime~]

i think its strange too but for some reason these machines make us owners so passionate about them..

i work in the music industry.
That does seem like it would be more Mac driven...(the music industry)...with I-Tunes and I-Pods and I-all that sh*t taking over...

that is very believable...

[andgar923]

i work in a different industry, but most of the people i come across work on macs. all of my artists use macs, all of the producers ive worked with use macs, the lions share of managers i work with use macs, the lions share of agents i work with use macs, most of the labels i deal with have a bunch of macs.. etc etc

i actually know about 10 people in the industry that have the apple tattooed on their body.

You own a label?

[andgar923]

That does seem like it would be more Mac driven...(the music industry)...with I-Tunes and I-Pods and I-all that sh*t taking over...

that is very believable...

Its not because of the ipods or itunes, its because they're more reliable and dependable.

Pro Tools and Logic are also the standard for recording.

YOu can do some recording with Sony and Cubase, but most engineers prefer Apple's stability, seamlessness and hassle free environment.

[~primetime~]

Hollywood uses both Windows and Macs, at times on the same project.

They'll edit something on Avid then they'll use After effects, then they'll use Motion and Final Cut all on the same project.

Hollywood doesn't seem to be as biased as much as other industries.

For example..... the music industry is dominated by Macs.

And the great thing about having a Mac is.... you can run both softwares.
I was just pointing out that with that particular software...it takes the 3D Dinosaur you made in one software, and composites into the film that they shot for the movie...mixing the film with the 3D...(prolly filmed with a blue/green screen....THAT is something I can't find for a Mac...compositing software...I am sure there is something out there, but that Inferno is the standard from what I have heard...

[andgar923]

I was just pointing out that with that particular software...it takes the 3D Dinosaur you made in one software, and composites into the film that they shot for the movie...mixing the film with the 3D...(prolly filmed with a blue/green screen....THAT is something I can't find for a Mac...compositing software...I am sure there is something out there, but that Inferno is the standard from what I have heard...

Dude... no disrespect, but you're coming off as a noob.

if you've been doing this for as long as you say you have, then you'd know about Motion (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/in-action/archive.html), Shake, Final Cut, and those are the ones that I know about, and I'm not into 3-D imaging or video. Then there's also apps like Houdini (http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1449&Itemid=322) and Modo (http://www.luxology.com/modo/) software that also happen to be used by some.

Not saying you are, but you don't seem to have knowledge to these top of the line industry applications.

[momo]

here is the OP's problem:


http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww57/sirianjazz/mac-pc-motorcycle-777073.jpg




he just needs to learn how to ride his bike, and once he does, he will be able to fly...

I am a mac user, but I gotta hand it to whomever made that :roll: it is funny as hell and not entirely inaccurate.

[YAWN]

You own a label?
nah, booking agent


Please tell me you're not serious.
:wtf:
im dead serious, even more people i know have that apple sticker on their car or prominently displayed in their homes too

[DeuceWallaces]

These two losers never give up. People may shoot in HD, but hardly anyone takes photos in RAW. Great thing about PC is you don't have to buy that extra bull****. You can just download it for free.

[boozehound]

The ability to work with RAW photos and HD video....is that asking to much from Windows?

Let me preface this by saying I was a Windows user my whole life up until 2 years ago when I got fed up and switched to Mac. Been very happy ever since, everything works perfectly. Well, I needed a laptop and didnt really want to spend $2k for a Macbook I was only going to use on occasion, and I have heard great things about Windows 7, so I bought a Windows based laptop. Big mistake :banghead:

I shoot photos and videos for a living and need a laptop I can actually use while away from home. Windows is still in the dark ages when it comes to HD video and RAW photos. Sure, I can import AVCHD video into Windows Movie Maker, but the most you can output to is 8 Mbps WTF? Whats the point of shooting in 24 Mbps? The built in Windows image viewer/editor is just as bad. No native RAW support still? Is this 2009 or 2004? :rolleyes:

I am not looking for some top of the line programs here. Just something to be able to view RAW images and a simple edit to some HD vids. Arent most people shooting these things? So basically I have to pay extra to install 3rd party software into this thing to do what I can do with imovie and iphoto that comes free on a Mac. Just one reason I will gladly pay more a Mac in the future because this is seriously frustrating.
you can edit RAW format on a windows machine. Just get any of the multitude of open source image editors.

[boozehound]

These two losers never give up. People may shoot in HD, but hardly anyone takes photos in RAW. Great thing about PC is you don't have to buy that extra bull****. You can just download it for free.
I take some of my micrographs in RAW format (depends on the machine and the camera attached). It is the highest quality format

[boozehound]

from the wiki on RAW format and the software you can use with it.

Cameras that support raw files typically come with proprietary software for conversion of their raw image data into standard RGB images. Other processing and conversion programs and plugins are available from vendors that have either licensed the technology from the camera manufacturer or reverse-engineered the particular raw format and provided their own processing algorithms.
Adobe Photoshop contains extensive support of raw formats since version CS2, as does Adobe Photoshop Lightroom.
Microsoft's Digital Image 2006 recognizes and organizes raw image formats such as .crw, .cr2, and .nef, which are file formats produced by Canon and Nikon,[citation needed] but that product was discontinued in 2007.[18]
Microsoft supplies free software for Windows XP to integrate viewing and printing into the system's other photo tools.[19]
Windows XP and Vista both support the WIC codec standard. Products such as Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Live Photo Gallery and FastPictureViewer Professional[20] can view raw formats for which the necessary WIC codecs are installed. Camera manufacturers Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus and Pentax have released WIC codecs although some manufactures are only providing codec support for the 32bit versions of Vista.[21] A commercial DNG codec is also available from Ardfry Imaging,[22] while the makers of FastPictureViewer have released a WIC codec pack, adding support for 19 raw formats to Windows in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions, as donationware[23].
In 2005, Apple Computer introduced several products which offered raw file support. In January, Apple released iPhoto 5, which offered basic support for viewing and editing many raw file formats. In April, Apple introduced a new version of its operating system, Mac OS X v10.4, which added raw support directly to the operating system, as part of the ImageIO framework, which adds raw support automatically to the majority of Mac OS X applications both from Apple (such as Preview, Mac OS X's PDF and image viewing application and Aperture, a photo post-production software package for professionals) as well as all third party applications which make use of the ImageIO frameworks. Semi-regular updates to OS X generally include updated support for new raw file formats introduced in the intervening months by camera makers.
There are many other "raw workflow applications" designed to provide efficient processing and post-processing of raw images, including Helicon Filter, Phase One's Capture One and Bibble Labs' Bibble Pro. Like Apple Aperture, Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom, LaserSoft Imaging's SilverFast, and PhotoLine, these programs provide sophisticated controls for processing the information stored in the raw file and converting raw files to JPEG or TIFF. Picasa, a free image editing and cataloguing program from Google, can read and display many raw formats, but like iPhoto, Picasa provides only limited tools for processing the data in a raw file.
A portable open source program, dcraw, supports most raw formats and can be made to run on operating systems not supported by most commercial software (such as Unix). Libraw is an API library based on dcraw, offering more convenient interface for reading and converting raw files. Libraw lite is a subset of Libraw released under GNU Lesser GPL to allow the use in commercial applications. HDR PhotoStudio and AZImage are some of the commercial applications that use Libraw Lite. Jrawio is an another API library, written in pure Java code and compliant to the standard Java Image I/O API.
RawTherapee is a freeware raw converter supporting the Windows and Linux operating systems.
UFRaw is free software based on dcraw. It can be used as a GIMP plugin and is available for most operating systems.
The latest version of GIMP, a free open source photo editing package, imports many raw formats. Older version have a plug-in which allows it to read and convert raw files.
ExifTool supports the reading, writing and editing of metadata in raw image files. ExifTool supports many different types of metadata including Exif, GPS, IPTC, XMP, JFIF, GeoTIFF, ICC Profile, Photoshop IRB, FlashPix, AFCP and ID3, as well as the maker notes of many digital cameras.
Light Crafts' LightZone photo editing software provides the ability to edit many raw formats natively. Most tools are raw converters, but LightZone allows a user to edit a raw file as if it were TIFF or JPEG.


as it says, most cameras provide a disc with software to convert their raw format into an RGB type format (tiff, jpeg).

[DeuceWallaces]

I take some of my micrographs in RAW format (depends on the machine and the camera attached). It is the highest quality format

That doesn't change the fact that over 95% of people shooting digital photos and using them on their PCs don't utilize RAW. Most the people on Flickr aren't even using RAW. There are only a few super zoom's that can save native in RAW. For the most part you need a SLR.

[Huey Freeman]

I think something like 92% of the business world uses a PC, and like 8% Mac...(something like that)

Macs are used by home users and some graphic artists...and students...

I have to use a PC, because they don't have the proper software on a Mac for my line of work...

PCs have about like...1,000x more software available...

infact, it is so overwhelming that I believe Macs now have an option to run Windows on a Mac...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Camp_%28software%29

[Huey Freeman]

I am a mac user, but I gotta hand it to whomever made that :roll: it is funny as hell and not entirely inaccurate.
That image posted by the other user is just beyond retarded.

But I guess if some people feel like they need to say how awesome the OS they use is to justify a purchase they must be a bit insecure.

[TheGreatDeraj]

The arguing between Macs and PCs is getting a little out of control. 95% of people use a computer for basic tasks that can be done on any computer like internet surfing and checking your email. And for the tasks that aren't basic, 99% of the time you will be able to do it well on either OS. Whether it comes with the OS, or you have to install software(free or not) it's not hard to do.

I've been using windows since I was 8(now 20) and never had a problem that I couldn't fix. I've used Macs as well and they both do basic tasks 99% the same.

All statistics in this post are accurate.

[quasimoto]

Seriously, what idiot shoots in RAW format and does not have Photoshop or any other image editing program installed? Same goes for HD video.

[mongePR(kb24)]

The arguing between Macs and PCs is getting a little out of control. 95% of people use a computer for basic tasks that can be done on any computer like internet surfing and checking your email. And for the tasks that aren't basic, 99% of the time you will be able to do it well on either OS. Whether it comes with the OS, or you have to install software(free or not) it's not hard to do.

I've been using windows since I was 8(now 20) and never had a problem that I couldn't fix. I've used Macs as well and they both do basic tasks 99% the same.

All statistics in this post are accurate.

thats true. the difference is the price .

[boozehound]

That doesn't change the fact that over 95% of people shooting digital photos and using them on their PCs don't utilize RAW. Most the people on Flickr aren't even using RAW. There are only a few super zoom's that can save native in RAW. For the most part you need a SLR.
that is true. RAW is overkill in most instances.

[boozehound]

Wow. I have called some Mac users here indoctrinated in the past, but at least they don't have tattoos of the damn Apple symbol...at least I'm guessing they don't.
responding to yawn's post you quoted.

Its an image thing. Same reason why people have northface stickers (or whatever) on their car. They want you to know they use that product, cause they identify with it. Its branding as a social identity.

what does the mac apple say about you? That you are young, hip, and cooler than all those lame pc users.

[Huey Freeman]

And you can run Windows on a Mac (Boot Camp, etc.)...

["Jesus"]

Bootcamp.

[boozehound]

It reminds me of all the people out there who say things like "America sucks!", then, a moment later say "Can't wait to get that new iPod!"

Why? I cant get an ipod in canada? its not like they are manufactured or engineered here or anything.

[boozehound]

Maybe you didn't read my entire post, I made a reference to that. So many Mac users knock Windows constantly, yet there's software for booting into/simulating it, so that they can run certain software that isn't available for Mac. To me it just seems a tad hypocritical.
I do agree with this.

Besides bootcamp has issues, especially with some of the intensive windows based programs. I have a friend whos mac crashes everytime he runs his stats application through bootcamp (because they dont make it for mac).

[Huey Freeman]

Maybe you didn't read my entire post, I made a reference to that. So many Mac users knock Windows constantly, yet there's software for booting into/simulating it, so that they can run certain software that isn't available for Mac. To me it just seems a tad hypocritical.
I actually see more Windows users knocking Mac all the time (probably because there's more Windows users), I don't understand why people feel so connected to "PC" when in fact the Mac is a PC too.

[boozehound]

I actually see more Windows users knocking Mac all the time (probably because there's more Windows users), I don't understand why people feel so connected to "PC" when in fact the Mac is a PC too.
huh, I dont really see this very often. mac users tend to have a stronger sense of identity with their machine IMO. and of course linux users will tell you that anyone who uses either is an idiot.

[v-unit]

:roll: Angry because Windows 7 is doing so well.

And if you don't like Windows Movie Maker, just install something else. Why do you have to speak so faggity about anything Windows related?

[andgar923]

Crysis on a Mac Mini, LOL. You'll have to simulate/boot into Windows and turn the settings WAAAAAY down. Crysis is a beast. On my machine, which is approximately 3 times more powerful than a Macbook Pro(considering only graphics, anyway), I have to turn the settings down a bit to get a smooth framerate. Hell, one of the draws of playing that game in the first place is the eye candy; kinda ruins the experience to play it on a machine that can't run it to at least most of its potential.

I really don't want to get into the whole Mac vs. PC thing again, but I think one of the silliest pro-Mac arguments is the gaming aspect. You guys like to knock Windows, then use the fact that you can simulate/boot into it to play games as an arguing point. It's contradictory. It reminds me of all the people out there who say things like "America sucks!", then, a moment later say "Can't wait to get that new iPod!"

This is from IGN. Games to come out recently that have scored at least a 9 and are not natively available for Mac.

Left 4 Dead 2
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Dragon Age: Origins
Fallout 3(Game of the Year Edition)
Batman: Arkham Asylum
Resident Evil 5
Need for Speed: Shift
World in Conflict(Complete Edition)
Empire: Total War
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II
Digital Combat Simulator: Black Shark
Grand Theft Auto IV

Etc. etc. etc. PC absolutely dominates the Mac when it comes to gaming, from a hardware and a software standpoint, this really isn't debatable.

Mac might get a triple A title every now and then, but they're pretty few and far between. And on the flip side of that token, you'd be hard-pressed to find many titles on the Mac that also are not available on the PC.

No you don't have to turn them all the way down.

There's vids on YouTube that show this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mid_pAnuHoM).

Its a mixture of different settings that one has to apply for sure, but the Mini is a low end computer.

As far as titles that are native for Mac I never said 'every single major title' is available.

And I still don't understand how having the option to run windows and all its software a 'bad' thing? since when is the option of more and having more options bad?

But even if one wants to accept that as a bad thing, gaming on a Mac (something for which I don't care about) seems like its gonna be very promising in the near future.

http://images.apple.com/macosx/technology/docs/OpenCL_TB_brief_20090903.pdf

The technology's demos have wowed the industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL

And it seems that Apple has been testing the 'gaming' waters with the iPhone/iPod so don't be surprised if they revolutionize that industry as well.

"OpenCL is being created by the Khronos Group with the participation of many industry-leading companies and institutions including 3DLABS, Activision Blizzard, AMD, Apple, ARM, Broadcom, Codeplay, Electronic Arts, Ericsson, Freescale, Fujitsu, GE, Graphic Remedy, HI, IBM, Intel, Imagination Technologies, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Motorola, Movidia, Nokia, NVIDIA, Petapath, QNX, Qualcomm, RapidMind, Samsung, Seaweed, S3, ST Microelectronics, Takumi, Texas Instruments, Toshiba and Vivante."

And if you guys are still adamant that Macs don't game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7SMMZH-2I

Also, some technologies that don't exist in Windows:http://vimeo.com/georgetoledo/videos/page:1/sort:newest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JM81rBkaJM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om-CrgIwrLo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQY80FLmrD0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1fHbI4eJu4

Just some small examples, there's more If you'd want to see them.

["Jesus"]

I have both a macbook pro and a regular old HP desktop.

I've never had a problem that I couldn't fix on my HP, never been hacked, never lost info, never had the HD crash. Reinstalled the software occasionally.

I've never really had a problem with the mac either... Except finding free programs, finding anything compatible with it, lack of games, and expensive updates. I got my $2,000 mac with OSX 10.4.11 in August, in September they put out 10.5, and expect me to drop another 100 bucks for an upgrade. It comes with an intel processor, but also expects me to spend another 80-150 on bootcamp/whatever the other program is.

Macs cost more, every program costs $80+. It's ridiculous. Another annoyance, if I want something I always have to type 'for mac' at the end of the search.



Windows is cheaper to keep up to date. $$ is a huge concern for me, since I'm 20 unemployed, and in college. You can basically run anything you need to, or a variation of it, on either computer. It's all personal preference in the end.

It comes with every Mac. (starting from 2008, I believe)
Spotlight "Boot Camp Assistant"

[DustBytes]

i have a mac pro quad xeon computer and i still dislike mac.

People who have macs and stand by it are full of it, it's their sel fullfilling prophecy that your listening to.

i do however enjoy the reliability and driver-free compatability with a lot of hardware.

[boozehound]

It comes with every Mac. (starting from 2008, I believe)
Spotlight "Boot Camp Assistant"
look, I like macs just fine. But here is a huge disconnect (like shannon elements pointed out). You see mac fans lambasting windows as a terrible system, but then mac includes a windows emulator (or whatever) with every computer? If windows is so terrible, why does mac have to emulate it? Why hasnt their market share increased to the point where they can dictate to software companies that they need to make mac compatible programs or lose half the market?

["Jesus"]

look, I like macs just fine. But here is a huge disconnect (like shannon elements pointed out). You see mac fans lambasting windows as a terrible system, but then mac includes a windows emulator (or whatever) with every computer? If windows is so terrible, why does mac have to emulate it? Why hasnt their market share increased to the point where they can dictate to software companies that they need to make mac compatible programs or lose half the market?

Because 95% of the world uses a PC.

[DustBytes]

look, I like macs just fine. But here is a huge disconnect (like shannon elements pointed out). You see mac fans lambasting windows as a terrible system, but then mac includes a windows emulator (or whatever) with every computer? If windows is so terrible, why does mac have to emulate it? Why hasnt their market share increased to the point where they can dictate to software companies that they need to make mac compatible programs or lose half the market?

boozehound, i am a windows fan, but you're logic has performed an illegal operation. VMware and other emulating software is not provided by apple, but by other developers. this allows many windows users to switch to mac knowing they can still use windows if they had to. It's a safety net... it's like an apple guy buying a windows pc knowing that if he doesn't like it he can revert it back to mac.

[andgar923]

I have both a macbook pro and a regular old HP desktop.

I've never had a problem that I couldn't fix on my HP, never been hacked, never lost info, never had the HD crash. Reinstalled the software occasionally.

I've never really had a problem with the mac either... Except finding free programs, finding anything compatible with it, lack of games, and expensive updates. I got my $2,000 mac with OSX 10.4.11 in August, in September they put out 10.5, and expect me to drop another 100 bucks for an upgrade. It comes with an intel processor, but also expects me to spend another 80-150 on bootcamp/whatever the other program is.

Macs cost more, every program costs $80+. It's ridiculous. Another annoyance, if I want something I always have to type 'for mac' at the end of the search.



Windows is cheaper to keep up to date. $$ is a huge concern for me, since I'm 20 unemployed, and in college. You can basically run anything you need to, or a variation of it, on either computer. It's all personal preference in the end.

LOL @ this

There's plenty of FREE apps for Macs, and they always have bundled sales where you can get hundreds of dollars worth of apps for $40.00 or less.

And bootcamp is FREE.

You can also get a FREE upgrade if you bought a Mac and a new OS came out within a certain time.

I really don't know whether you're telling the truth or not, but this stuff isn't hard to figure out.

Another thing..... if you buy a winpc one month and a new OS is introduced the next, do you really think you're gonna get the new OS for FREE? That's how MS makes their money dude.

Also.... you wanna talk about expensive updates?

Seriously, this is a joke!

Windows has about 4 versions of their OS (minimum) and the cheapest is a neutered version with limited capabilities. On the other hand, you get ONE OS for everybody with OS X.... that's right. One OS ONE price for all.... doesn't matter who you are.

Like I explained earlier, if you wanna get the top Windows 7 or Vista in your new pc, you're gonna have to spend more money than if you bought the low end versions.

Why?

Because the OS is more powerful so the minimum specs require more to run properly and consistently.

Its really not that hard to find Apple apps:
http://osx.iusethis.com/
http://www.macupdate.com/
http://www.freewareosx.com/
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/

It was as easy as googling "Apple Software".... and boy would you look at those prices!!!! gonna make a poor beaner even mo poor'er!!!

I also recommend you keep an eye out on the next MacHeist (http://www.macheist.com/splash).

[boozehound]

Because 95% of the world uses a PC.
and why is that? Apple had the first widespread personal computer and huge contracts with school systems and universities across the country. How did they lose their lions share of the market if they are such a superior product? or, if they are just recently the superior product (last 10 years or so), how come they have gained such little headway?

["Jesus"]

and why is that? Apple had the first widespread personal computer and huge contracts with school systems and universities across the country. How did they lose their lions share of the market if they are such a superior product? or, if they are just recently the superior product (last 10 years or so), how come they have gained such little headway?

They were the first PC's? I thought Windows was.
But anyway, I don't think they're particularly superior to Windows machine, but they each offer different things to different customers. If you want the best of both worlds, then Bootcamp will help you.

[andgar923]

look, I like macs just fine. But here is a huge disconnect (like shannon elements pointed out). You see mac fans lambasting windows as a terrible system, but then mac includes a windows emulator (or whatever) with every computer? If windows is so terrible, why does mac have to emulate it? Why hasnt their market share increased to the point where they can dictate to software companies that they need to make mac compatible programs or lose half the market?

Windows sucks... period.

But because the majority of the market share is Windows many developers don't create Mac versions of their apps, and some of these apps are needed for some people.... so they have to turn to emulators or boot camp to use them.

But the overwhelming majority don't run Windows as their OS of choice. They mostly run Windows to run what they have to, then they go back to OS X.

The market share has been increasing over the years, even with a troubled worldwide economy Apple has surged ahead in its market share and profits. One of the main reasons why their market share is so low is because they don't license out their OS.

If people could run OS X on any computer you'd see that number shift frantically as people and oems would install them in a heartbeat, and developers would come along in a hurry.

Developers don't develop for Macs because the money incentive isn't there for them. Even then, Apple has certain guidelines that developers must adhere too on top of learning how to use Cocoa. But that's just the beginning part... they also have to learn about the look and feel of the app, since Apple users tend to be very specific about that stuff as well.

Look at the avg Mac app and compare it to an avg Windows app and the difference is night and day. There was actually a very good in depth 3 part feature on this in Ars Technica that discussed this, and really took a huge dump on Windows and its developers for it. So adapting to the Apple environment won't be that easy for some developers.

[boozehound]

boozehound, i am a windows fan, but you're logic has performed an illegal operation. VMware and other emulating software is not provided by apple, but by other developers. this allows many windows users to switch to mac knowing they can still use windows if they had to. It's a safety net... it's like an apple guy buying a windows pc knowing that if he doesn't like it he can revert it back to mac.
if bootcamp comes standard with all new macs, dont they have a hand in it?

[quasimoto]

that is true. RAW is overkill in most instances.
Professional photographers use RAW all the time and they should. It offers way more flexibility and editing possibilities afterwards.

[flipogb]

so if you are not rich, need programs that already come with the Mac and not with a PC, and are against piracy so you cant download on PC, then you get a Mac

in that case no macs for me ever,lol

[boozehound]

Professional photographers use RAW all the time and they should. It offers way more flexibility and editing possibilities afterwards.
sure, and as I pointed out, I use RAW formats frequently. and I can use them on any windows OS from the past decade. Now, you can use them without having photoshop or editing software, since windows picture viewer handles most RAW formats (there are different, proprietary ones for different camera manufacturers).

[andgar923]

and why is that? Apple had the first widespread personal computer and huge contracts with school systems and universities across the country. How did they lose their lions share of the market if they are such a superior product? or, if they are just recently the superior product (last 10 years or so), how come they have gained such little headway?

Its a business strategy that Apple took and Windows took.

Windows' OS is licensed to any OEM or anybody that wants to install it on their pc, OS X isn't.

That's why Windows dominates the market, along with some dubious business practices that landed them in trouble in the 90s, which helped them get to where they are today.

According to your argument, a Corolla must be better than a Mercedez or BMW since there's more sold.

If BMWs were so great, why do we see more Corollas?

Anything that is 'premium' is gonna cost more and thus have less of a market share.

It aint that hard to understand.

[Showtime]

and why is that? Apple had the first widespread personal computer and huge contracts with school systems and universities across the country. How did they lose their lions share of the market if they are such a superior product? or, if they are just recently the superior product (last 10 years or so), how come they have gained such little headway?
Point blank: proprietary hardware. That was their biggest mistake.

[andgar923]

if bootcamp comes standard with all new macs, dont they have a hand in it?

Boot Camp is different than emulating software.

Boot Camp lets you run Windows natively, emulators such as Parallels, VMWare Fusion, Crossover, etc.etc. only emulate Windows.

And of course Apple has a hand in it... its one of the reasons they switched to intel in the first place. It was a business decision that worked out great for Apple because since then, their market share has climbed.

Many Mac users had to keep two computers for a long time.... their Macs and a pc, because there was certain software that they had to run for whatever reason, but they still loved their Macs.

And there was many people that wanted to switch to Apple, but were afraid that some software they had to use (mostly for work) wasn't gonna be compatible (along with certain files).

So it was a great calculated move on their behalf.

[nek1477]

macs are the best :applause: i lost a lot of respect for windows over the years

[v-unit]

I meant parallels not bootcamp. And mine doesn't have bootcamp installed since I got mine in August '07.

They told me it would be 100 more dollars to upgrade my system. I had it for one month, and that was the discount price to upgrade.

I've been using xp on my desktop for 8 years and never had a problem with finding compatible software. It's annoying to keep up with everything on a mac, many apps that are free and actually useful are for 10.5.

And also, it is retardedly difficult to find certain things for a mac. Especially codecs in my experience. I am a member on macforums, and nobody could f*cking answer my question. It took me a week to find the answer myself.

My experience with macs has been sh*tty, I like it more than when I got it... But still not thrilled with it. The pretentious fans don't help their case with me either.

http://www.coolest-vampire-art-gallery.com/images/vampire-staked-through-the-heart.jpg

Ouch....This one hurt all the Mac vampires out there

THE DAGGER-Right in the heart

[andgar923]

That's no more impressive than if it were done on a PC. And the guy was running it on Windows 7. And that video is crap quality, I honestly can't make out a damn thing about the graphics. Anyway, I still contend that you're doing yourself a disservice by running that game on such weak hardware, that goes for both Mac and PC.


But its running it no? stop switching your argument.


Apples and oranges. The iPod and iPhone pretty much dominates its market(not so sure about the iPhone). It has a huge market share when it comes to DAPs, so publishers aren't taking much of a risk by putting their games on it. And let's be realistic, it isn't exactly the serious gamer's mobile platform of choice.


The iPhone dominates the 'smart' phone market and it has revolutionized the industry as a whole.

As far as the iPhone/pod not being a serious mobile gamer's platform of choice, that may be true, but they're beating them in sales. Not only do they 'sell' more, but apparently the quality (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/26/iphone-dominates-list-of-igf-mobile-2009-finalists/) is also better.



On the flip side of that coin, Apple's personal computers have a tiny market share when compared to Windows. Game publishers aren't going to trip over themselves to bring their games to a platform with a small user base. This has been proven time and again. Platforms with smaller user bases, don't get as many games as platforms with larger user bases. Everything you're posting is just a pipe dream.

That's the same thing people were saying before the iphone came out. If some of the top game developers sign on and see the possibilities, I'm sure more will develop for the Macs as well. Why not code for both? specially if the technology is gonna offer new possibilities?

i'm sure not all developers are gonna do so, but we'll start to see a different tone when this happens.

Its fine to doubt something that's yet to happen, but Apple has been doubted repeatedly and has proven the doubters wrong time and time again.





Again, that guy is running Windows. I don't debate that the HARDWARE is capable of gaming. An ATI 4850 is a good card, no doubt, but you can build/buy a PC with 2 nVidia 295 GTXs in Quad SLI which will blow the most powerful Mac out of the water. Or you can get a PC with the same exact card, for cheaper. That's what I was talking about. When it comes to gaming, from both a hardware and a software standpoint, PCs absolutely dominate.


Uh... you do know you can buy that same card that you mentioned for cheaper and install it on some macs right?

And I know that Windows gaming dominates, I really don't care.

I replied to somebody saying "You can't play games on a mac" and even tho its done via virtualization, they can be played.

Does it matter how its achieved?

And you can go ahead and build your gaming rig for cheap (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2myis_powermac-g5-supercomputer_tech)... I really don't care. And neither are the majority of Mac users.

[KeylessEntry]

I read that something like 80% of mp3 players sold today are iPods. 80% of digital music sold today is sold through the iTunes music store. It is kind of like apple has done to the digital music market what windows did to the computer market.

[andgar923]

I meant parallels not bootcamp. And mine doesn't have bootcamp installed since I got mine in August '07.

They told me it would be 100 more dollars to upgrade my system. I had it for one month, and that was the discount price to upgrade.

I've been using xp on my desktop for 8 years and never had a problem with finding compatible software. It's annoying to keep up with everything on a mac, many apps that are free and actually useful are for 10.5.

And also, it is retardedly difficult to find certain things for a mac. Especially codecs in my experience. I am a member on macforums, and nobody could f*cking answer my question. It took me a week to find the answer myself.

My experience with macs has been sh*tty, I like it more than when I got it... But still not thrilled with it. The pretentious fans don't help their case with me either.
You do know that you're using an OS that's really old and many developers don't support right?

We're in version 10.6.2 and you're still using 10.4? c'mon dude!!!

If you have an Intel chipped based computer, you can get Boot Camp for FREE, you don't gotta pay for it.

Its as simple as Googling "download Boot Camp (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=download+boot+camp&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)" dude.... really.

And show me the thread where you weren't getting help.... please do, since usually they're quick to help. Why? because most users switched from Windows themselves.

What was it you needed help with?

And seriously.... you need to upgrade your OS.

If you have an intel chip you can buy Snow Leopard for $30.

[boozehound]

According to your argument, a Corolla must be better than a Mercedez or BMW since there's more sold.

If BMWs were so great, why do we see more Corollas?

Anything that is 'premium' is gonna cost more and thus have less of a market share.
except macs arent premium. I would also argue that in your car analogy, the corolla is a better car. Better re-sale value, less repairs during the life of the car, etc. People who buy the BMW do so to fit an image they are projecting to the world, not because its actually a better car.

[rezznor]

Ummm, not really. The fact that this is almost 2010 and Windows STILL cannot find a way to let users view and edit HD videos and RAW photos without using 3rd party software is pretty pathetic and shows how behind the times they are. Hell, imovie 06 worked with HD files :rolleyes: The only thing this laptop is good for out of the box is browsing the web. I could get a netbook for $150 to do that.
its almost 2010 and I still can't find any decent video games to play in OSX. see I can do that too.

[rezznor]

Maybe I am spoiled with Mac, but I shouldnt need to pay for and install 3rd party software to do basic things like HD video and RAW photo files on a brand new computer thats just released a new OS :rolleyes: I paid $1k for this and its running Windows 7 premium 64 bit, not like its some cheap model
Maybe I am spoiled with PC, but I shouldnt need to pay for and install windows to do basic things like play video games on a brand new computer thats just released a new OS :rolleyes: I paid $2k for this macbook and its running Leopard, not like its some cheap model

[andgar923]

I read that something like 80% of mp3 players sold today are iPods. 80% of digital music sold today is sold through the iTunes music store. It is kind of like apple has done to the digital music market what windows did to the computer market.

Its different....

Apple only controls its own hardware, what Windows did (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft) was try to control the entire OS and internet

They basically created a monopoly and that's why they exploded.

[andgar923]

except macs arent premium. I would also argue that in your car analogy, the corolla is a better car. Better re-sale value, less repairs during the life of the car, etc. People who buy the BMW do so to fit an image they are projecting to the world, not because its actually a better car.

Macs are 'premium' product.

Just how a top of the line Sony or Dell is a premium product compared to their lower end models, or AlienWare at that.

The Corolla was just an example, I really don't know sh!t about cars.. but I do know that BMWs are considered as a premium car.

And while I'm sure there's users that buy Macs for their aesthetic appeal and 'cool' status, not every user does so for that reason, or falls in love with them for that reason either.

They are hands down, the most dependable, superior multi tasking computers (due to OS X) for the end user.

[andgar923]

It's running it VIA WINDOWS! Ding ding ding, what do we have for him, Johnny? I'm switching my argument because I don't know what your argument is. Is it that it's running on a Mac Mini? I never said it couldn't. Is it that it's running on weak hardware? PC users have been doing this with Crysis since it came out.

That's my bad... I forgot that I originally responded to another comment. I responded to a "Macs don't game" comment from somebody else.

[phoenix18]

Every damn week. Why are you guys fighting for second place? We all know the best os is............................................

http://unidee07.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/linux-penguin-big_origpreview.jpg

[andgar923]

I'm not doubting Apple is capable of coming up with some very amazing tech, my whole point is market penetration. Remember the Atari Jaguar? It wowed people with its tech demos as well, but still got its ass kicked by the SNES and Genesis simply because they were in more homes, which subsequently led to being the home of more games, which in turn led to abysmal sales for the Jaguar, even though it could run circles around both of them when it came to technology.

Mac will never be the computer gaming platform of choice as long as it has such a small market share, and that's the bottom line.

We've yet to find out.

I'm just going with what history has shown repeatedly when it comes to Apple being doubted. That's not a fanboy statement, its a realistic one based on history.

If Apple somehow manages to produce something that can revolutionize the pc gaming industry, gamers will switch.

Many gamers spend mucho dinero as it is... hell... Alienware only exists for that reason, not everybody builds their own rigs. And many people haven't switched to Macs because they "don't game", so if something enticing enough comes out.......

[andgar923]

Every damn week. Why are you guys fighting for second place? We all know the best os is............................................

http://unidee07.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/linux-penguin-big_origpreview.jpg


LOL

I like the little penguin, but its not for the end user. Not user friendly enough imo, even themed it didn't feel the same.

I guess its great coming from Windows, but coming from Mac to Linux (I used Ubuntu) seemed like a chore.

I understand that there's Mac themes, skins, etc.etc. to make it feel more like a Mac, but it still doesn't.

Powerful and flexible OS indeed..... but not user friendly.

[DukeDelonte13]

I have used all the window distros since 95, and a few ubuntu distros as well. I got a macbook last year with leopard, which was great, and just installed snow leopard. Nothing comes close.

Macs are hands down the most reliable and advanced computing systems around.

PC's are great at playing games, and thats about it.

[DeuceWallaces]

We've yet to find out.

I'm just going with what history has shown repeatedly when it comes to Apple being doubted. That's not a fanboy statement, its a realistic one based on history.

If Apple somehow manages to produce something that can revolutionize the pc gaming industry, gamers will switch.

Many gamers spend mucho dinero as it is... hell... Alienware only exists for that reason, not everybody builds their own rigs. And many people haven't switched to Macs because they "don't game", so if something enticing enough comes out.......

We've already found out. Apple has done, and will do nothing for gamers. One of the many reasons why they have an abysmal market share.

[andgar923]

We've already found out. Apple has done, and will do nothing for gamers. One of the many reasons why they have an abysmal market share.

We've already found out?

Really?

You mean their early attempt in the 80s?

This is a new era dude.

We're yet to find out.

[Lyin]

It's almost 2010 and people are still buying programs? Ever heard of torrents?

[andgar923]

It's almost 2010 and people are still buying programs? Ever heard of torrents?

I buy certain apps, specially when they're bundled together and you get a great deal.

MacHeists are dope!

[TheGreatDeraj]

Andgar, post pics of your Apple tattoo.

[andgar923]

Andgar, post pics of your Apple tattoo.

Only if you wanna see my left nut.

[andgar923]

I don't know why this is so hard to understand for you. Gamers aren't going to make the switch until there's a substantially larger library of games for Mac, and there isn't going to be a substantially larger library until the Mac user base grows exponentially from what it is now. The tech they might be able to come up with is completely irrelevant to that realistic statement based on history.

I don't know what you expect, Steve Jobs to descend from the heavens with a massive library of games and a 50% market share?

Lots of great gaming tech has come and gone simply because the games weren't there. And the games aren't going to be there, when the user base is so small. They're mutually exclusive. It's pretty simply, really.

p.s. nutshot or GTFO.

Of course it'll be a gradual implementation, its not gonna be announced one day and the next day things are gonna change.

Another thing.... if they plan to make a move towards the gaming market, they will have some big players on board. While it may not be all the developers, they'll certainly have some of the biggest names on board.

I understand what your argument is, and you did clarify it more but things'll happen gradually.

As far as the comparisons you were using, well their a moot point.

Simply because they weren't Apple.

Hate them or love them, you can't knock their marketing effectiveness. Hell, many Apple bashers mention that's the story to their success, their marketing. And they're 'partially' correct.

Either way.... it remains to be seen.

They may not even make a push towards the pc gaming industry and just focus on the portable one. Apple is known to suddenly change what seemed to be their focus, and for scrapping projects after years of research and development altogether.

As far as the tat.... my balls are hairy, so I'll have to shave them for it to be visible.

[~primetime~]

I will admitt that Macs may very well be superior machines...

but the fact remains that for the vast majority of the working world (including my own) they are just not an option because they are not compatable with 95% of the software out there...

now, Mac users will go on to say that you can run Windows on a Mac...well what the hell is the point of that?


great, Macs are more reliable and idiot proof, but not all of us just use a comp to surf the net, alot of us actually have to do work tht requires software...software that is not made for a Macintosh...

[~primetime~]

im a preferred pc user, and i do like macs as well.

here's a funny a quote from NVIDIA's CEO perhaps one that should have been kept to himself


kinda funny he says that because his own company's top of the line video cards dont even work with macs
do Mac users even know what a video card is?

do you even have the option of installing a new video card into a Mac?

[andgar923]

I will admitt that Macs may very well be superior machines...

but the fact remains that for the vast majority of the working world (including my own) they are just not an option because they are not compatable with 95% of the software out there...

now, Mac users will go on to say that you can run Windows on a Mac...well what the hell is the point of that?


great, Macs are more reliable and idiot proof, but not all of us just use a comp to surf the net, alot of us actually have to do work tht requires software...software that is not made for a Macintosh...

You answered your own question.
:hammerhead:

[andgar923]

as long as ur mac has a pci-e slot and proper mac os.. should be fine
here's one of the better ones for apple

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/TW387ZM/A

u can get this card for pc for under 400 bucks

nvidia gtx 285, definitely a high end consumer video card
but in the larger scope of things, not really a big deal

there are faster single gpu video cards, and obv dual gpu cards as well for pc

That's not the point, he was trying to be funny by making uninformed ignorant comments.

Just like he has done throughout the entire thread.

[~primetime~]

Of course it'll be a gradual implementation, its not gonna be announced one day and the next day things are gonna change.

Another thing.... if they plan to make a move towards the gaming market, they will have some big players on board. While it may not be all the developers, they'll certainly have some of the biggest names on board.

I understand what your argument is, and you did clarify it more but things'll happen gradually.

As far as the comparisons you were using, well their a moot point.

Simply because they weren't Apple.

Hate them or love them, you can't knock their marketing effectiveness. Hell, many Apple bashers mention that's the story to their success, their marketing. And they're 'partially' correct.

Either way.... it remains to be seen.

They may not even make a push towards the pc gaming industry and just focus on the portable one. Apple is known to suddenly change what seemed to be their focus, and for scrapping projects after years of research and development altogether.

As far as the tat.... my balls are hairy, so I'll have to shave them for it to be visible.
dude the success of Apple has more to do with all thier great gadgets...

the iphone is probably the single greatest tech invention of the last decade...

and all the kids of today have gone through several versions the ipod...

if it wasn't for all the "istuff" Apple's stock would not be where it is today...

don't pin all of their success on those overpriced computers that don't run any software that people just purchase because any 8 year old can use them...

[Jello]

as long as ur mac has a pci-e slot and proper mac os.. should be fine
here's one of the better ones for apple

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/TW387ZM/A

u can get this card for pc for under 400 bucks

nvidia gtx 285, definitely a high end consumer video card
but in the larger scope of things, not really a big deal

there are faster single gpu video cards, and obv dual gpu cards as well for pc
Overpriced piece of ****. More like under 300 bucks on PC.

[~primetime~]

You answered your own question.
:hammerhead:
No I didn't...

why would anyone buy a Mac to run Windows?

^^^that was my question...

it makes no sense...

do you know anyone that does that?

[andgar923]

dude the success of Apple has more to do with all thier great gadgets...

the iphone is probably the single greatest tech invention of the last decade...

and all the kids of today have gone through several versions the ipod...

if it wasn't for all the "istuff" Apple's stock would not be where it is today...

don't pin all of their success on those overpriced computers that don't run any software that people just purchase because any 8 year old can use them...

You're partially correct.

Their iPods/phones do sell the most, but they also cost less than Macs!!

LOL

Apple products are usually amongst the top sellers for their price category, specially Macbooks which are usually in the top 3.

But that wasn't my argument.

My argument was, Apple can be successful in the pc gaming arena because they have the marketing power behind them that others didn't.

[Jello]

You're partially correct.

Their iPods/phones do sell the most, but they also cost less than Macs!!

LOL

Apple products are usually amongst the top sellers for their price category, specially Macbooks which are usually in the top 3.

But that wasn't my argument.

My argument was, Apple can be successful in the pc gaming arena because they have the marketing power behind them that others didn't.
Not sure what you're trying to say.
The Macbook is not in the top 3 in its price category...

[andgar923]

No I didn't...

why would anyone buy a Mac to run Windows?

^^^that was my question...

it makes no sense...

do you know anyone that does that?

People don't buy a Mac to run Windows.

People buy a Mac because they have the option to do so.

I've explained this already, go back and read.

People were hesitant in the past because they were afraid that some of their apps wouldn't be compatible. But the switch to Intel has allowed them to run those apps either natively via Boot Camp or via virtualization, but they can run them.

People buy Macs for several reasons, the biggest one being they're tired of Windows.

[andgar923]

no, ur missing a large part of the equation... its about the 3rd party developers (game makers), apple has no control in this. developers dont see a point in developing games for macs, when theres just a way bigger market/customer base in pc gaming, and developing/coding games are easier on pc/windows. a better part of pc gamers, build their own machines, so that they get the best performance for the least amount of money. buying macs is the exact opposite of this.

I covered this already.

[Jello]

This is Pixar's studio.
http://www.pixar.com/howwedoit/images/how_view_05.jpg
Hmm looks like PC's.
Dreamworks also uses PC's. Hmm.
http://www.dreamworksanimation.com/
Go to Studio, and go to Technology of Animation, flip through some of the pictures. Looks like PC's also.
WTF IS UP WITH THESE RETARDS?! THEY SHOULD BE USING MACS!!!! IT'S FAR MORE SUPERIOR!!!!

[v-unit]

In all seriousness, I don't see how there is an arguement for video games being greater on Windows then Macs. Alright you can argue about what system comes with what programs, what system has better speed what system has whatever...But there really isn't an arguement for video games.

It's not even about Mac capability...Developers just don't want to make games for Macs

[andgar923]

Not sure what you're trying to say.
The Macbook is not in the top 3 in its price category...

I made a mistake by basing it on the Best Buy and Amazon stats.

But there's also this report (http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Apple-has-91-of-market-for-1000-PCs-says-NPD/1248313624).

[Jello]

I made a mistake by basing it on the Best Buy and Amazon stats.

But there's also this report (http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Apple-has-91-of-market-for-1000-PCs-says-NPD/1248313624).
Well duh, you can get good quality PC's for less than $1000.

[~primetime~]

In all seriousness, I don't see how there is an arguement for video games being greater on Windows then Macs. Alright you can argue about what system comes with what programs, what system has better speed what system has whatever...But there really isn't an arguement for video games.

It's not even about Mac capability...Developers just don't want to make games for Macs
and do you know why tht is?

because no one owns a Mac...there is no money there to be made...

If a game is REALLY successful, like HALO, then there will be a Mac version...

but the reason no one developes games for Macintosh is because they don't have a market...the world works on a PC, that is just how it is...

I think that is something that Apple even accepts...so they target their computers toward home users, and make them look all cool and "trendy" for the teenagers to use...Apple knows their place...and they know that isn't changing anytime soon...

[andgar923]

Well duh, you can get good quality PC's for less than $1000.

That wasn't my argument, was it?

[~primetime~]

People don't buy a Mac to run Windows.

People buy a Mac because they have the option to do so.

I've explained this already, go back and read.

People were hesitant in the past because they were afraid that some of their apps wouldn't be compatible. But the switch to Intel has allowed them to run those apps either natively via Boot Camp or via virtualization, but they can run them.

People buy Macs for several reasons, the biggest one being they're tired of Windows.
do you kow anyone that does that though?

is there ONE poster here that is currently running Windows on a Mac???

someone?

anyone?

[Jello]

That wasn't my argument, was it?
Wah? Confused as ****.

[andgar923]

that doesnt mean anything, a developer wont go "on board" if there arent people buying macs for gaming, or their games for mac period. no matter how much money apple invests into their gaming marketing and other developers... they dont have the money to make people buy macs for gaming. apple simply cant change the scope of pc gaming as goliath as they may be. if they were able to, they would have done so along time ago. this isnt their target, and they understand that.

but iphone gaming is a completely different story

Well... we dunno that yet.

They do have a love hate relationship with game developers. One moment they bring up game developers on stage and both seem to be very excited, then the next game developers are dumped without no explanation.

And btw... I never said that they'd 'dominate' the gaming industry, if I did that wasn't what I meant.

I did however mention (or mean) how they can revolutionize the industry and be a significant player.

Not because I want them too, I don't care about gaming. But because the technologies are there and they have the marketing influence that others didn't.

There's been many rumors about Apple and gaming throughout the years. Some were hinting at Apple turning the Apple TV into a multimedia gaming rig, while others were saying Apple was gonna concentrate on making an imprint in the gaming market after some keynote presentations. But they've all been wrong.

So who knows.

I'm speculating as much as you guys are.

My point is, Apple has been doubted in the past plenty of times. So I wouldn't be surprised if they make a big impact 'if' they decide to pursue it.

[andgar923]

This is Pixar's studio.
http://www.pixar.com/howwedoit/images/how_view_05.jpg
Hmm looks like PC's.
Dreamworks also uses PC's. Hmm.
http://www.dreamworksanimation.com/
Go to Studio, and go to Technology of Animation, flip through some of the pictures. Looks like PC's also.
WTF IS UP WITH THESE RETARDS?! THEY SHOULD BE USING MACS!!!! IT'S FAR MORE SUPERIOR!!!!

From my understanding Dreamworks has a deal with HP. Also Pixar uses mainly Macs if not all Macs.

But I don't see what this has to do with anything.

The gov and military switched to Macs so?

[Jello]

From my understanding Dreamworks has a deal with HP. Also Pixar uses mainly Macs if not all Macs.

But I don't see what this has to do with anything.

The gov and military switched to Macs so?
I was just obscenely appalled by their ignorance. Mac #1!

[Jello]

All satire aside, I actually like the Apple's OS's. Until their insanely overpriced hardware drops in price, PC's for me.

[phoenix18]

All satire aside, I actually like the Apple's OS's. Until their insanely overpriced hardware drops in price, PC's for me.
Same. IF they could lower their prices, they would have a bigger share of the market.

[andgar923]

do you kow anyone that does that though?

is there ONE poster here that is currently running Windows on a Mac???

someone?

anyone?

You'd have to ask them.

I do know people that bought a Mac because they had the option to run both OS.

They were sick of Windows and wanted to buy a Mac, but were hesitant because they needed certain Windows only apps. As soon as they found out they could run Windows in a Mac, it was a done deal.

I'm on a different board and there's at least 2 posters that use Windows via virtualization to run specific apps, and that's it.

My new job requires me to select my work schedule online, but I can only do so with IE. So I run Windows to get my schedule then I get the fu@k out.

So there... you have one... me.

[Randy]

You guys are ****. This is the new Christianity v. Atheist debate, except not relevant to anything. Just stop.

[~primetime~]

for me it isn't even about the price...95% of the software out there is made for a PC...macs are just not an option for me...


and they only have one mouse button...

http://www.alexraiano.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/apple_one_button_mouse.jpg


^^^ not acceptable...:lol

(yes I know you can get a real mouse on a Mac)

[andgar923]

for me it isn't even about the price...95% of the software out there is made for a PC...macs are just not an option for me...


and they only have one mouse button...

http://www.alexraiano.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/apple_one_button_mouse.jpg


^^^ not acceptable...:lol

(yes I know you can get a real mouse on a Mac)

That would've been funny 4 years ago.

[~primetime~]

You'd have to ask them.

I do know people that bought a Mac because they had the option to run both OS.

They were sick of Windows and wanted to buy a Mac, but were hesitant because they needed certain Windows only apps. As soon as they found out they could run Windows in a Mac, it was a done deal.

I'm on a different board and there's at least 2 posters that use Windows via virtualization to run specific apps, and that's it.

My new job requires me to select my work schedule online, but I can only do so with IE. So I run Windows to get my schedule then I get the fu@k out.

So there... you have one... me.
I thought you could run IE on a Mac without Windows?

[andgar923]

I thought you could run IE on a Mac without Windows?

Used too years ago.

I also know a few producers that bought a Mac because they could run Windows only apps and plugins as well as Mac only apps and plugins.

For instance..... Fruity Loops (http://flstudio.image-line.com/) is a Windows only app, but many engineers and producers prefer to record on Pro Tools (http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=349&langid=100&itemid=33116) or Logic (http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/) which are for Mac only (although Pro Tools runs on windows now, but not as good). So with a Macbook they have the ability to run both within the same computer.

And then there's the dozens of plugins that are either Windows only, or Apple only. With Macs you can now run both without a problem.

I know people that will make a beat in OS X, tweak it on Windows, then mix it and finish it on OS X again. The ability and flexibility to do that within the same computer can't be praise enough. It saves tons of time both productively and creatively.

[Jello]

Used too years ago.

I also know a few producers that bought a Mac because they could run Windows only apps and plugins as well as Mac only apps and plugins.

For instance..... Fruity Loops (http://flstudio.image-line.com/) is a Windows only app, but many engineers and producers prefer to record on Pro Tools (http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=349&langid=100&itemid=33116) or Logic (http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/) which are for Mac only (although Pro Tools runs on windows now, but not as good). So with a Macbook they have the ability to run both within the same computer.

And then there's the dozens of plugins that are either Windows only, or Apple only. With Macs you can now run both without a problem.

I know people that will make a beat in OS X, tweak it on Windows, then mix it and finish it on OS X again. The ability and flexibility to do that within the same computer can't be praise enough. It saves tons of time both productively and creatively.
I don't understand why you would do this but okay.

[andgar923]

I don't understand why you would do this but okay.

Simple....

Lets say you enjoy using Reason's synths and its workflow. But you wanna add a synth/instrument/VST plugin that's 'only' available for Windows. So you export it, open up the Windows app and add it to your beat. Now that its added, you wanna mix it down or record in Logic (which is an Apple DAW).

Or...

Some people prefer to use Fruity Loops, so they'll make the entire beat in FL and then mix it in Logic or Pro Tools.

Its really convenient when you have it all in the same computer.

But that's not just relegated to music production, it can be done for almost any type of environment.

I prefer to use Apple's iWork, so I can make my presentation in iWork and then switch over to Windows and apply it to whatever I need to do, like a Windows only app or something..... I dunno, I'm just speculating on the options some people might face.

[~primetime~]

the fact that it seems alot of mac users are switching over to Windows on their mac seems like a bad thing to me, not a good thing...might as well just go all PC...

and like I have said numerous times, Macs may very well be the superior machine...but that isn't the problem...

http://www.webpagefx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/market-share.jpg


^^^ that is why I don't want a Mac...

that is why most businesses don't want Macs...

it isn't just video games that the Mac loses...it is just all software in general...no one developes anything for Macs because no one owns one...you are forced to use thier "istuff" to do all your work...and that is too limiting...

[nbastatus]

Windows: Gaming.

[OneMoreSucka]

for me it isn't even about the price...95% of the software out there is made for a PC...macs are just not an option for me...


and they only have one mouse button...

http://www.alexraiano.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/apple_one_button_mouse.jpg


^^^ not acceptable...:lol

(yes I know you can get a real mouse on a Mac)
God I hate that thing so much. First thing I did when I got my mac was get a real mouse.

[untouchable]

im high and too lazy to read the whole 11 pages but im sure its been mentioned.. my question is if i watch porn on my macpro will i get viruses?

[YAWN]

the fact that it seems alot of mac users are switching over to Windows on their mac seems like a bad thing to me, not a good thing...might as well just go all PC...

and like I have said numerous times, Macs may very well be the superior machine...but that isn't the problem...

http://www.webpagefx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/market-share.jpg


^^^ that is why I don't want a Mac...

that is why most businesses don't want Macs...

it isn't just video games that the Mac loses...it is just all software in general...no one developes anything for Macs because no one owns one...you are forced to use thier "istuff" to do all your work...and that is too limiting...


most people didn't see the point in ditching their car phone for a cell phone at first either.

[boozehound]

most people didn't see the point in ditching their car phone for a cell phone at first either.
ok, what is this "at first" crap? are macs brand new? no, they actual were the lions share of PCs back in the late 80s/early 90s. The lost their marketshare and havent been able to gain it back in any real way.

[DeuceWallaces]

ok, what is this "at first" crap? are macs brand new? no, they actual were the lions share of PCs back in the late 80s/early 90s. The lost their marketshare and havent been able to gain it back in any real way.

:oldlol: Come on, another 30 years and everyone will be using them! It's not like they try to beat us over the head with their commercials this past decade. No one has heard of them. The first three decades was not enough time for everyone to realize how great they are.

[bdreason]

Only reason I would buy a Mac is if I was really into video editing. The music producers I know all use PC + Pro Tools... and why overpay for a Mac just to use basic programs (Word / Excel) and surf the web?

[YAWN]

ok, what is this "at first" crap? are macs brand new? no, they actual were the lions share of PCs back in the late 80s/early 90s. The lost their marketshare and havent been able to gain it back in any real way.

the macs didn't start getting the reputation that they have amongst their users until the ibook came out. its only been around 6 years. the macbook is the machine that has seem to wow the most pc users into converting.

[Hawker]

most people didn't see the point in ditching their car phone for a cell phone at first either.

Ya, since you can use a car phone outside of the car. :roll:

[~primetime~]

***ONE OTHER NOTE I WOULD LIKE TO THROW IN***


"IF" Macs suddenly did see an huge increase in market share (hypothetical), and did start to take over...(let's say 90% of all users)...then they would see all the same problems that PCs have...

-Mac spyware would suddenly become enormous, because hackers would actually care now...there goes that lovely security that everyone talks about, even the Mac commercials...

-3rd party software would strt jumping in from all directions, making compatibility issues a mess...

-3rd party hardware would start flying in from all directions...because most people would suddenly want to customize them...so that simplicity that Mac users love would be gone...

*for the most part* they would just become what PCs are today...all of the "issues" that PCs have, come from thier popularity/market share...

[andgar923]

***ONE OTHER NOTE I WOULD LIKE TO THROW IN***


"IF" Macs suddenly did see an huge increase in market share (hypothetical), and did start to take over...(let's say 90% of all users)...then they would see all the same problems that PCs have...

-Mac spyware would suddenly become enormous, because hackers would actually care now...there goes that lovely security that everyone talks about, even the Mac commercials...

-3rd party software would strt jumping in from all directions, making compatibility issues a mess...

-3rd party hardware would start flying in from all directions...because most people would suddenly want to customize them...so that simplicity that Mac users love would be gone...

*for the most part* they would just become what PCs are today...all of the "issues" that PCs have, come from thier popularity/market share...

Security by obscurity argument is old and been disproved over and over. Every year for the past 5 years or so, security 'experts' have been saying that Apple will be targeted and will be harmed with viruses.

There's actually a list of so called malware and viruses in a security site, but non of those exist.

There was actually plenty of malware and viruses available for Macs in OS 9 which had an even smaller market share. What happened? Mac went to a UNIX foundation.

A trojan isn't a virus because YOU have to install it. There also isn't any spyware on Macs. There's security websites stating that there is, but non of it is in the wild. Not ONE Mac has been infected in the wild.

That trojan wasn't even harmful, nowhere near as harmful as the original reports stated, and could even be deleted without any problems. Hell... that same afternoon saw the release of a free app that got rid of it.

Now that we got the 'security through obscurity' myth outta the way.....

3rd party apps work differently in a Mac than in Windows. Mac apps must meet certain requirements and the community usually does a great job at self policing each other. Apple will not approve apps that don't meet certain requirements

3rd party hardware already exists, but even then... only certain kind work with Macs. With a pc you can install any kind of anything with anything.... not so with Macs, so that by default will eliminate those issues. Also..... since Apple's OS is closed, that further prevents this type of issue from happening, so everything works as well as it possibly can.

There's a reason why Macs only hold a certain share of the market. Its not by mistake that they keep everything closed, from their hardware to their software.

Apple will NEVER have a large percentage of the market share as long as they follow Jobs' business strategy. And as long as they do that and remain 'closed' they won't have the issues that Winpcs are plagued with.

Sure we'll see more issues, but nowhere near the type and amount that plague the winpc market.

[~primetime~]

Security by obscurity argument is old and been disproved over and over. Every year for the past 5 years or so, security 'experts' have been saying that Apple will be targeted and will be harmed with viruses.

There's actually a list of so called malware and viruses in a security site, but non of those exist.

There was actually plenty of malware and viruses available for Macs in OS 9 which had an even smaller market share. What happened? Mac went to a UNIX foundation.

A trojan isn't a virus because YOU have to install it. There also isn't any spyware on Macs. There's security websites stating that there is, but non of it is in the wild. Not ONE Mac has been infected in the wild.

That trojan wasn't even harmful, nowhere near as harmful as the original reports stated, and could even be deleted without any problems. Hell... that same afternoon saw the release of a free app that got rid of it.

Now that we got the 'security through obscurity' myth outta the way.....

3rd party apps work differently in a Mac than in Windows. Mac apps must meet certain requirements and the community usually does a great job at self policing each other. Apple will not approve apps that don't meet certain requirements

3rd party hardware already exists, but even then... only certain kind work with Macs. With a pc you can install any kind of anything with anything.... not so with Macs, so that by default will eliminate those issues. Also..... since Apple's OS is closed, that further prevents this type of issue from happening, so everything works as well as it possibly can.

There's a reason why Macs only hold a certain share of the market. Its not by mistake that they keep everything closed, from their hardware to their software.

Apple will NEVER have a large percentage of the market share as long as they follow Jobs' business strategy. And as long as they do that and remain 'closed' they won't have the issues that Winpcs are plagued with.

Sure we'll see more issues, but nowhere near the type and amount that plague the winpc market.
they wouldn't be able to regulate it like they do now...

I could make software right now for a Mac and release it to the public for free...new software would pop up everywhere, and there is nothing Mac could do to stop it...

and the software that people have to pay for WILL be cracked...there is nothing stopping that...crack software will always be around...

and your theory that for some reason there is no malware or spyware on Macs because they are just better at preventing it is bogus...no one makes spyware or malware for Macs...if they had the market share that PCs have there would be 100x more viruses out there...right now it is easy for them to prevent the 3 vuirus a day that are released...

PCs have to deal with literally thousands of new viruses a week...I promise you that Macs would not be able to somehow escape that...either way, neither of us can prove what would happen, so you can't just write anything off as a "myth"...

[DeuceWallaces]

the macs didn't start getting the reputation that they have amongst their users until the ibook came out. its only been around 6 years. the macbook is the machine that has seem to wow the most pc users into converting.

They've had the same reputation since the 80's; Fisher Price computer for video professionals and those who can't handle the real thing.

[DeuceWallaces]

Security by obscurity argument is old and been disproved over and over. Every year for the past 5 years or so, security 'experts' have been saying that Apple will be targeted and will be harmed with viruses.

There's actually a list of so called malware and viruses in a security site, but non of those exist.

There was actually plenty of malware and viruses available for Macs in OS 9 which had an even smaller market share. What happened? Mac went to a UNIX foundation.

A trojan isn't a virus because YOU have to install it. There also isn't any spyware on Macs. There's security websites stating that there is, but non of it is in the wild. Not ONE Mac has been infected in the wild.

That trojan wasn't even harmful, nowhere near as harmful as the original reports stated, and could even be deleted without any problems. Hell... that same afternoon saw the release of a free app that got rid of it.

Now that we got the 'security through obscurity' myth outta the way.....

3rd party apps work differently in a Mac than in Windows. Mac apps must meet certain requirements and the community usually does a great job at self policing each other. Apple will not approve apps that don't meet certain requirements

3rd party hardware already exists, but even then... only certain kind work with Macs. With a pc you can install any kind of anything with anything.... not so with Macs, so that by default will eliminate those issues. Also..... since Apple's OS is closed, that further prevents this type of issue from happening, so everything works as well as it possibly can.

There's a reason why Macs only hold a certain share of the market. Its not by mistake that they keep everything closed, from their hardware to their software.

Apple will NEVER have a large percentage of the market share as long as they follow Jobs' business strategy. And as long as they do that and remain 'closed' they won't have the issues that Winpcs are plagued with.

Sure we'll see more issues, but nowhere near the type and amount that plague the winpc market.

Hahahahaha. You're such a ****ing idiot if you think Jobs only wants 5% market share. He would switch with Microsoft in a heartbeat a million out of a million times.

[rezznor]

There's a reason why Macs only hold a certain share of the market. Its not by mistake that they keep everything closed, from their hardware to their software.

Apple will NEVER have a large percentage of the market share as long as they follow Jobs' business strategy. And as long as they do that and remain 'closed' they won't have the issues that Winpcs are plagued with.

Sure we'll see more issues, but nowhere near the type and amount that plague the winpc market.

seriously man, you are a reasonably intelligent guy, but you are really drinking too much of the kool aid if you are implying that Jobs is intentionally keeping his marketshare small in order to avoid winpc "problems"

[andgar923]

they wouldn't be able to regulate it like they do now...

I could make software right now for a Mac and release it to the public for free...new software would pop up everywhere, and there is nothing Mac could do to stop it...

and the software that people have to pay for WILL be cracked...there is nothing stopping that...crack software will always be around...

and your theory that for some reason there is no malware or spyware on Macs because they are just better at preventing it is bogus...no one makes spyware or malware for Macs...if they had the market share that PCs have there would be 100x more viruses out there...right now it is easy for them to prevent the 3 vuirus a day that are released...

PCs have to deal with literally thousands of new viruses a week...I promise you that Macs would not be able to somehow escape that...either way, neither of us can prove what would happen, so you can't just write anything off as a "myth"...

Again...... Apple has to approve apps, and guess what?

Even if you happen to get it out, if it sucks it SUCK! everytime there's an issue with the app a report gets sent to Apple automatically. There really isn't a way around it, they'll eventually find out.

And there's already cracked software, I never denied that and I don't see how that's a problem for the end user. Might be a problem for the developers, but that's about it. That has nothing to do with the quality of the app or the quality of the OS itself. A cracked Mac app is different than a pc one. To crack a Mac app for the most part, all you need is a serial, change a specific file that licenses it, change the date.... it doesn't deteriorate from the quality of the app at all (trust me I know.... hehe).

Hmmm.... its not a theory, its the truth.

Now.... sure there would be more people attempting to create viruses for Macs than they currently are, but the results will be the same. And that's because the OS is 'different' than Windows'.

Do some research on Windows' registry and on UNIX.

Like I mentioned... every year we hear the same thing, yet not ONE virus has been created.

As far as spyware is concerned.... spyware exists on the net. It exists on websites etc.etc. Apple doesn't get affected because it doesn't work like Windows does. Its not something that's created to target Windows specifically, anybody and any system can get it by simply surfing a site.

And I can write it off as a 'myth' because its something that people have been saying for 'years' not and its yet to happen even tho its market share grows every year.

And Apple's market share won't grow that high, so even if all the doubters are correct, their share won't be high enough for us to find out.

So until that day happens, we got nothing to worry about.

[ashar008]

http://images.sodahead.com/images/profiles/0/0/0/7/2/6/9/9/0/imamac.gif

[andgar923]

Hahahahaha. You're such a ****ing idiot if you think Jobs only wants 5% market share. He would switch with Microsoft in a heartbeat a million out of a million times.

Who said he didn't want a higher market share?

His approach is just different.

If Apple manages to achieve that while still following the same business strategy, than its all good. But they aren't gonna open up Macs or its OS to do so.

They haven't done it with ANY of its hardware or software, and he and Apple have been doing well for themselves.

[andgar923]

seriously man, you are a reasonably intelligent guy, but you are really drinking too much of the kool aid if you are implying that Jobs is intentionally keeping his marketshare small in order to avoid winpc "problems"

Nobody mentioned that he's purposely keeping his market share small!!!

LOL

How did you guys take that from my post?

Of course he'd want Apple's share to be higher, but he wants to stick to his business model.

Every single quarter for years now, analysts and 'experts' have been saying how Apple should lower their prices, how they should open up their OS, how their Macs should be open, etc.etc. yet they've still been successful all these years.

Whether its the iPhone, iPod, Macbook, iMac etc.etc. we've heard those same calls over and over, but they stick to their business model and it seems to work. They've been slowly gaining market share, so why just open it up now?

It'll dismantle everything they've been working for.

[andgar923]

http://images.sodahead.com/images/profiles/0/0/0/7/2/6/9/9/0/imamac.gif

Hah... that's a good one.

My other fav one is the one with Bruce Willis and he.

[LJJ]

^ Not taking into account that the Macbook is way, way smaller. Probably the most important thing for a laptop.


What kind of a jackass buys a "gaming laptop" anyway?

[andgar923]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but you DO realize that a lot of "freebies" are factored into the overall price, right? It's like when you see a commercial, and they say "it's free, you only have to pay inflated shipping and handling." As to the rest of your argument...

15-inch Macbook Pro(minimum specs) Sager NP8690(minimum specs}

2.53Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo << Intel i7, 1.6-2.8Ghz
Integrated nVidia graphics <<< nVidia GeForce GTX 280M
with a gig of memory
4 Gigs DDR3 RAM > 2 gigs DDR3 RAM
500 GB, 5400 RPM HDD > 250 GB, 5400 RPM HDD
1400x900 pixel display(900p) < 1600x900 display


Price: ~$2,300 << Price: ~$1,735

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8690-built-clevo-w860cu-custom-gaming-laptop-order-p-2659.html

The Macbook gets blown out of the water.

I see you've resorting to lying.

http://img.skitch.com/20091121-1wtp7mn3e862a4d1ywyqm6625h.jpg

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC118LL/A?mco=MTM3NDcyODk

This is minimum specs and you even got your price wrong:
Starting From$1,648.03

That's from the link you provided.

I dunno where you got the prices from.... its not much of a difference now is it?

The hardware and specs are arguable since both offer their advantages over one another, but like somebody mentioned... Macbooks are smaller and lighter, they're also made out of aluminum, have longer battery life (I think?), have multi touch trackpad, but more importantly.....

Macbooks have OS X.

And OS X>>>>>>> any Windows flavor

[andgar923]

Wait a minute...... I proceeded to check out and the price is the same as the Macbooks:

http://img.skitch.com/20091121-m4upsimx7h8a2865rpt7pecfm.jpg
http://www.xoticpc.com/shopping_cart_show.php

Where did you get your prices from?

I clicked on the link you provided and I went to the Apple site and I got completely different prices at their minimum specs. I didn't add anything to them at all, so where'd you get your specs from?

And as we can see, they come out to the same price.

[andgar923]

Oops, my bad. Not "lying"(lol), I accidentally quoted the price from the high-end Macbook Pro. You'll notice I even listed some of the high-end specs(500 gig HDD). Let me try this again. I also added W7 to the Sager, because by default it comes sans OS.



I agree with a lot of what you say, but you DO realize that a lot of "freebies" are factored into the overall price, right? It's like when you see a commercial, and they say "it's free, you only have to pay inflated shipping and handling." As to the rest of your argument...

15-inch Macbook Pro(minimum specs) Sager NP8690(minimum specs}

2.53Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo << Intel i7, 1.6-2.8Ghz
Integrated nVidia graphics <<<< nVidia GeForce GTX 280M
with a gig of memory
4 Gigs DDR3 RAM > 2 gigs DDR3 RAM
250 GB, 5400 RPM HDD = 250 GB, 5400 RPM HDD
1400x900 pixel display(900p) < 1600x900 display


Price: ~$1700 > Price: ~$1,735

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8690-built-clevo-w860cu-custom-gaming-laptop-order-p-2659.html

Yes, the prices are certainly comparable. But with the Sager, you get a cutting-edge mobile 17 processor, a graphics card which completely smokes what's in the Macbook, a higher resolution LED-backlit display, a comparable build quality(Sager is one of the best in that department, on the PC side of things) but less RAM. Not a big deal, as 2 gigs is sufficient for W7, and you can always buy some on the cheap from somewhere like Newegg.

I added the 'lying' part as a sarcastic attention grabbing word for shock value.

The specs appear to be more impressive on the pc you posted.

However.....

OS X's OS does a better job at maximizing the hardware: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/

Which almost puts it on par.

However.... there is nothing it can do about the resolution, but people can get good benchmarks on the Macbooks even when running it via emulators.

Which is why most of us keep saying OS X>>>>> any Windows flavor.

As far as what you quoted me on....

I'm not referring to Pcs costing more, I'm talking about the actual OS.

Vista and Windows 7 don't have 3rd party "free" apps included, that's the OEM including them.... I'm not talking about that. I'm strictly talking about the OS itself.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/compare/default.aspx

you notice how they vary?

In order to run the highest quality W7 the minimum specs need to be higher, so since the specs are higher the pc costs more.

In regards to 3rd party apps that get shipped with OEMs, they actually 'lower' the price.

One of the reasons OEMs can afford to lower their prices is partly due to the FREE 3rd party apps that are included, not the other way around.

If a W7 pc is running Home Premium, it'll be cheaper then if its running W7 Ultimate.

Mac OS X only comes in 'one' flavor for all users at the same price.

[andgar923]

Do you have a source for the different versions of W7 having different minimum specs? Because I'm looking at the minimum specs right now and the only difference is between 32 and 64-bit processors.

Really?

You really need sources?

I thought it was widely known that a pc that use the highest quality of W7 or Vista needs higher specs in order for it to run properly.

And actually, there was a class action lawsuit against Microsoft, for telling OEMs to stick the higher graded Vista on pcs that didn't meet the requirements in order to sell them. Whistleblowers admitted that MS knew the pcs wouldn't meet the requirements but still placed their Vista approved labels on them.

Which is a reason why many people kept having problems.

Also, many people had to turn off Aero and other features for that reason.

I'll try to find the links if you want.

[andgar923]

I mean seriously.... what a f#ckin joke!

http://windows.microsoft.com/systemrequirements

And they have the audacity to state "Your pc simplified" WTF?

Although I gotta admit I was wrong about the minimum requirements, but you still can't run the top of the line W7 properly with just the minimum specs.

I mean.... seriously!

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/upgrade-advisor

WTF?

[andgar923]

What's so bizarre about them saying (paraphrasing)"but if you're a gamer, you might want to get a decent graphics card" or "if you want sound, you might need a sound card"?

And what's so bizarre about the upgrade advisor? I have an old-as-**** PC in my basement, that could be a handy utility if I wanted a ballpark on how effectively it could run W7. You gotta remember, a lot of people build their own PCs, sometimes from spare parts from other PCs.

I do agree though, this how "You're PC, simplified" is pretty much a straight rip-off from Apple's marketing team.

Just pointing out that you'll need various specs to run the various versions of its OS properly.

I didn't mean to focus on what you mentioned.

And it was also meant to illustrate how silly the 'you're pc simplified' slogan. That sh!t would drive the avg user crazy trying to figure things out.

[andgar923]

Maybe so, but if someone can't figure out that they need a soundcard to be able to listen to music, even though their PC will still be capable of running W7 without one, they're an imbecile. That's not Microsoft's fault. They're aren't responsible for the hardware like Apple is. That burden is on the users and manufacturers. Like I said, a lot of people build their own PCs.

All that is mainly CYA on the part of Microsoft.

That's not fair for the millions of Windows users.

Not every pc user cares or knows about specs.

Either way, its not that they list them its the fact that they have too.

Why have various versions of your OS?

Why not just make it 'ONE'?

Anyway MS can't even get a simple web site (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/home) correct, so how can they get an entire OS (http://www.apple.com/macosx/)?

My problem has never been with the pc vendors or the hardware manufacturers, its always been with Windows.

You guys keep saying how you can build a better spec'ed pc for cheaper but its still gonna run Windows.

At least install Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/) on it, sh!t is FREE.

[andgar923]

Of course they have to list them. Like I said, it's CYA(cover your ass). They don't need people complaining about how they just installed W7 on their relic of a computer and it can't run Modern Warfare 2.

And what's wrong with that site? I must be missing something.

Its hideous and looks like it belongs in 1999.

If they can't even get that right, how can I trust them with my OS?

Shows lack of detail, lack of caring, etc.etc.

If you compare that to Apple's site you'll see what I mean.

Apple's site is well thought out to the smallest detail. Everything is taken into consideration. And that transfers into the way they create their OS.

If they've taken so much time in making sure the site is world class, imagine how they approach everything else including their OS?

[Meticode]

Hello my fellow nerds. What's the argument today? Macs vs. PC? Same ol' same ol'? Have fun getting nowhere!

[IcanzIIravor]

Being a cheap bastard who doesn't make a living using my personal pc I'll go with windows for now. I might try to get a hand me down MAC to play with though just to get that elitist feel. J/K on the elitist stuff.

[andgar923]

That has got to be the strangest argument for why one OS is better than another that I've ever heard.:oldlol:

That's just an example, but a legit one.

And its also true.

I used to work at en engineering company.

And I used to do what's called 'deburring'. I didn't care much for it, and thought it was useless because it was only for aesthetic reasons. One of the programmers mentioned that it shows commitment to details, which in turn translates into overall quality.

Lets use a lemonade stand as an example:

"A" is just table with a handwritten sign. The cups are are styrofoam cups, and the lemonade itself is store in an ice bucket.

"B" has a nicely designed banner, the cups are made of glass, the lemonade is stored in a glass jug and you get a napkin.

Now.... you haven't tasted either one so you don't know how they taste. You just show up and see these two stands. Obviously one took more time than the other. They were meticulous about their presentation and more than likely one can come to the conclusion that the same details and care went into making the lemonade itself.

On the other hand, one can come to a conclusion that they didn't really care about their presentation, so they probably didn't put much effort in the lemonade itself.

And Apple's attention to details translates in the OS and their hardware. The site is symbolic of the type of overall quality and experience that one should expect from them.

Go to Windows' site and you're bombarded with clutter. Apple's site is elegant and streamlined just like their OS.

I mean.... seriously.

This is W7 Control Panel:

http://www.blogsdna.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/windows-7-control-panel.png

And this is supposed to be an 'improvement'.

This is Apple's:

http://files.myopera.com/lizard_kanta/blog/Snow-Leopard-2.jpg

Notice the difference?

Again.... attention to detail.

If they spent time with that layout, it shows how they'd approach the making of their OS. And the results don't lie.... every version of OS X has beaten every version since XP in almost every test and benchmark scores. Both real life and geek testing on a consistent basis.

And that's what I'm getting at.

Like I mentioned in a past post in regards to Aero Peek.... I initially dugg the idea and wished Apple had it. But then I remembered how annoying pop ups can be. Its extremely annoying when something pops up or hovers constantly. if I want to know what the info is, I'll click on it.... stop popping up when I hover.

I can guarantee that people will be turning off that feature because its annoying.

And while that may be something small, it only further strengthens my argument that details matter in the 'overall' computing experience.

[andgar923]

lol, Andgar, I do believe that's the "classic"(i.e. old) view. Someone else is using my W7 laptop right now, so I can't get on to get a screenshot, but I will later. I guarantee by default it doesn't look like that. In the meantime, here's the default Vista control panel:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/ShadowSelenium/Capture-23.png

And back to your website theory, military websites are some of the most poorly designed, unintuitive, labyrinths of information of use to only David Bowie that I've ever had the misfortune of using, but I certainly wouldn't use that as an indictment of the most finely-tuned, greatest military in the world.

Well that is better than the other.

The US Military's site I'm sure has very little to do with the UNIX based OS that they have.

Two completely different scenarios

And I'm not making that THE indictment, just an example.

Here's another example (not sure if I mentioned this):

Windows' gadgets or whatever they're called.

Okay....

On Windows these are stored 'on the desktop', on Apple they're stored in a 'Dashboard (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x28lp5_apple-os-x-leopard-sneek-peek-dashb_news)'.

Why?

Because you don't want your desktop cluttered with information, that's why. If I want one of my widgets I can summon them whenever I want, they don't have to clutter my desktop.

What happens when you have more than 4? And its usually for quick information.

LOl @ having them on your desktop.

And LOOOOOLLLL @ all these steps to enable them and the time it took to gather information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYEvGnqLHk0&feature=player_embedded

I mean..... why do you guys put up with this?

[~primetime~]

"put up with this"?

are you kidding me?

that video shows how to turn those gadets OFF at the intro...EASY


look homey, for home users Macs are better, but like I said multiple times earlier in this thread for MOST people they are just not an option because they have to work on a PC...


if we were realy that worried about it we would do this:


http://laughingsquid.com/installing-leopard-on-a-pc-in-three-easy-steps/
Installing Mac OS X Leopard On A PC In Three Easy Steps


but we don't do that, because we aren't children...and PCs really aren't as difficult as you make them out to be...

I have an old PC in my closet with Windows 98 on it....I could plug it in right now and it would be fine...

[andgar923]

that guy makes it much more complicated than it is... the first 5 steps are unneccessary because windows gadgets are enabled by default. he goes to programs and features just to make sure its enabled... but its absolutely not necessary.

adding a gadget in win 7:
1) right click on desktop, click gadgets
2) double click ur desired gadget

thats all it is

That's understandable, but the fact that one still has to go through so many steps. And then the time it took for the system to gather the information.

Example.... what if you wanna take them off?
Or what if you're on a pc that doesn't have them on?

I know I'm making it sound like a big deal, but its just the fact that W7 is supposed to be easier and simpler to use, yet one still has to take that many steps along with navigate through all of its contents. Part of that is due to its UI and system.

[andgar923]

Again, can't use my W7 notebook right now, but on vista you can just click the little icon in your system tray to bring up your gadgets, then, hide it again.

Here's my desktop(clicky):
(image has been resized as to not break the page)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/ShadowSelenium/th_Untitled-8.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/ShadowSelenium/?action=view&current=Untitled-8.jpg)

That's with my gadgets running. The icon in the system tray all the way to the left is what you click to bring them up.

Edit - Just watched the vid. That guy likes doing things the hard way.:oldlol:

Okay.... I take it back, I never knew about that.

I thought that they were just always there.

Aside from that icon is there a different way to summon them?

[~primetime~]

gadgets shouldn't be a major factor in purchasing a computer...I mean give me a break

some people do like to use thier desktop for more than just a giant photo...

their is no winner in this arguement...

Macs are easier to use, and more stable

PCs are more difficult but have 100x more software available to use...

but again, the vast majority of people have to use a PC when thy go to work...so when they purchase thier home computer, it would be silly to buy a Mac...



in the end, no one should give 2 sh*ts about gadets...lol

if they are on or off, it makes no difference to me at all...

[andgar923]

i agree but the basic necessity of adding/removing gadgets is simple, especially for a basic user
a basic user rarely has to go that deep into control panel

for moderate/advanced users, i doubt they care much if they have to click a very extra links/open up a few extra windows, due to it being almost common sense and veru easy for them to do. for instance, i can go through the control panel, cmd prompts and wutever and i dont think of it as.. my gawd that was horrendous, its just second nature and i dont care much

also, ive never used a gadget in my life lol

Oh yeah, I understand that's usually the case.

But its more an indictment of their overall design and entire system as a whole.

That's why Windows OS has historically had more issues.

I'm sure many experts will agree that they're system is archaic and one of the main issues they have problems.

Again, to sound like a broken record I'm gonna bring up the attention to detail and Apple vs Windows' site.

The steps he had to go through are similar to one having to go through Apple's internal system files:

http://img.skitch.com/20091122-epbw1yat4c8y8msfrxy8due99h.jpg

Even tho it shouldn't be the case for an end user feature.

[andgar923]

Well, you can always hit the Windows key then type in "sid" and hit enter. Takes like 1 second.

That's how I launch almost all apps(except for games), quicker than mousing to them, and helps keep your desktop free of clutter.



Can you configure it to open via a shortcut key?

Or 3rd mouse button?

On a Mac I can do the following:

Drag my mouse to the 'corner'
Hit a shortcut key
Click on a 3rd mouse button

And the 'Command + Space' combo and typing 'da' (short for Dashboard)

[~primetime~]

I'm sure many experts will agree that they're system is archaic and one of the main issues they have problems.

No, it would be great if that was a "main" problem...


the main issue is that Windows runs on a million different peices of hardware with a trillion printers/speakers/cards/monitors/decives/ect...

coupled with a gazillion different kinds of software...

so we run into compatability issues that Mac users just don't have to deal with, because you guys just a few of everything...

the tricycle compared to a motorcycle pic really is a great comparison...

[andgar923]

i can agree with that even tho i can understand a windows os/file structure backwards and forwards, i gotta admit theres lots of things i find dumb and unnecessary, but i guess i put up with it because ive gotten so accustomed to it

dont get me wrong, i love macbooks, most of my friends who happen to be in med, all have macbooks, and any time i use it, even tho im not familiar with mac os, using it is a breeze, and the user interface is better in many different ways. my friend has a widget(i think it is) where u drag the mouse to a corner, and all the nba standings/box scores pops up on screen, and u can click wutever to see detailed info. definitely very cool

but ragging on windows because it may not be good as mac os in some aspects is kind of unfortunate because i believe this is where macs should be praised, not so much windows be knocked on.

I can rant on why I 'hate' Windows for many reasons.

Unlike some people I don't care what some people prefer or use, my rants are directed at Windows and Microsoft.

And what you described is 'Expose' and 'hot corners'.

You can appoint selected corners to perform specific functions.

I have mine set up this way:

http://img.skitch.com/20091122-deeed6abn6y4sfpjcrwknkkb8k.jpg

When I drag my mouse to the top left corner, all the applications that are open show up.

Top right corner gives me access to my desktop.

Bottom left gives me access to my Dashboard (like your friend).

And bottom right, the same as top left.

And Expose is like a god send and what made me fall in love with Macs. I can't use a computer without it.... seriously.

And Windows has some neat features I wish Apple included, but overall they don't implement them as well.

[andgar923]

Yes, you can. I only use keyboard shortcuts with my audio player though, the rest of the time I'm doing pretty much exactly what you described. Except instead of command I hit the alt key. Alternatively you can do the same thing by hitting the windows key.

I figured you could.

Alright... I'll stop making fun of Windows for their 'gadgets' implementation.

[simcjt]

So... since this is 16 pages of back and forth does anyone mind answering if this thread really went anywhere?

[simcjt]

Andgar and I are now dating.
Thanks for the cliff note and fast response :rockon:

[andgar923]

Seriously, the arguments about this are so boring. They both have good things and bad things about em.
Welcome to message boards.

[andgar923]

So... since this is 16 pages of back and forth does anyone mind answering if this thread really went anywhere?

Well I learned that gadgets can be hidden.

[andgar923]

Andgar and I are now dating.

I'm not that easy.

[Meticode]

Seriously, the arguments about this are so boring. They both have good things and bad things about em.

I read the first three pages and I was like, "You have to be kidding me?"

[~primetime~]

just to change up the topic a bit, I have started to see these poping up in hotels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWCgWCoeOg


they are, kinda cool...I played chess on one...

[andgar923]

And just in case jaydacris' pic wasn't evidence enough on the whole control panel issue, here's a crop from my W7 notebook:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d140/ShadowSelenium/Capture-24.png

Where did you even get that image at, Andgar?

I just googled Windows 7 Control Panel, there was many of them.

And that guy in the vid also had it in that display mode.

But this is a better ui.

[andgar923]

I really don't see why anyone would want to change it to that.:confusedshrug:

Well, one thing we can definitely agree on is that we both don't like clutter.

I guess 'classic mode' can increase performance. At least that was the case when I used Windows.

But he had Aeoro on so it kinda defeats that purpose.

But that's the only reason why somebody might prefer it, unless they just like all that clutter.

[~primetime~]

people prefer classic mode because they are used to it, they have been using it for years and years...they are faster that way

I seriously doubt there is any preformance boost at all...

not everyone sees a list of options as "clutter" and gets all confused...there are people that don't need big huge icons for everything...you don't give humans enough credit here...



honestly, all the reasons that you are giving to show why Macs are better is making you come off as very simple minded to me...(the kind of person that needs a Mac)

[andgar923]

people prefer classic mode because they are used to it, they have been using it for years and years...they are faster that way

I seriously doubt there is any preformance boost at all...

not everyone sees a list of options as "clutter" and gets all confused...there are people that don't need big huge icons for everything...you don't give humans enough credit here...



honestly, all the reasons that you are giving to show why Macs are better is making you come off as very simple minded to me...(the kind of person that needs a Mac)
I've given many more in the past.

I've given benchmark scores, I've outlines the differences in their features and why Macs are better. I've mentioned that the integration between the OS and the hardware makes them more reliable and gives them an overall better performance. I've mentioned how their seamless integration with the OS and hardwares along with superior multi tasking capabilities makes it better. I've mentioned how they have exclusive technology and are usually the first to adapt or introduce standards. We all know about the virus/spyware non existence in a Mac. I've even illustrated how Macs aren't that much more expensive than comparable OEMs and at times cheaper. I've illustrated all this plus much more in this thread and others.

But more than anything, I've tried to dispel the myths, misconceptions and lies that most people have.


What I've discussed in the past few pages is just an 'example' of the attention to detail that's across all of Apple's products and specially their OS.

I mean.... a Winpc machine can have better specs than a Mac, but a Mac will usually perform better in most benchmark scores. And even gaming on a Mac with slightly inferior specs can compete with a higher spec'ed Pc, whether its running games natively or virtually.

[~primetime~]

I've given many more in the past.

I've given benchmark scores, I've outlines the differences in their features and why Macs are better. I've mentioned that the integration between the OS and the hardware makes them more reliable and gives them an overall better performance. I've mentioned how their seamless integration with the OS and hardwares along with superior multi tasking capabilities makes it better. I've mentioned how they have exclusive technology and are usually the first to adapt or introduce standards. We all know about the virus/spyware non existence in a Mac. I've even illustrated how Macs aren't that much more expensive than comparable OEMs and at times cheaper. I've illustrated all this plus much more in this thread and others.

But more than anything, I've tried to dispel the myths, misconceptions and lies that most people have.


What I've discussed in the past few pages is just an 'example' of the attention to detail that's across all of Apple's products and specially their OS.

I mean.... a Winpc machine can have better specs than a Mac, but a Mac will usually perform better in most benchmark scores. And even gaming on a Mac with slightly inferior specs can compete with a higher spec'ed Pc, whether its running games natively or virtually.
fair enough...

this is what I do on my PC for a living:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5fYgsdrOaA

that is PC first software, it does find its way to the Mac but the updates be over a year long in waiting time...

I also have to file share at work, and no one uses a Mac...there are 100s of PCs in our office but I am not sure that there is even a single Macintosh in the whole building, although there may be one or two hidden somewhere...

can you maybe see why I would do this :rolleyes: when you bring up gadgets and icons and stuff that is extremely meaningless???

it isn't about all that petty stuff...great your computer is "pretty" and clutter free!!!...and user frendly!!!...yay!!!....but can it do what I need it to do???...No, it can not...I NEED a PC...

I am an example of my PC owns the market...PC owns the software market...you know software right???... "the stuff you actually use a computer for"...the reason computers exist...that stuff???

[andgar923]

Just saw this. I don't know where you get your information from. This is 100% false. The military uses Windows exclusively. For EVERYTHING. From surveillance to spread sheets.

Just recently I was in a meeting, the topic was software that allows you access restricted government sites at home via a government ID USB card reader, and the speaker literally at one point said "Anyone here have a Mac? No? Good."
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/13559/
http://www.forbes.com/2007/12/20/apple-army-hackers-tech-security-cx_ag_1221army.html
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/putting-the-o-in-os-x-when-the-white-house-meets-the-macintosh.ars
http://www.apple.com/business/solutions/it/government.html
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/surprise_apple_sells_to_the_federal_government/
http://www.securitysystemsnews.com/?p=article&id=ss200910a0EEOE
http://www.applelinks.com/index.php/more/national_security_agency_gives_os_x_104_tiger_thum bs_up_os_x_odyssey_862/
http://www.newsweek.com/id/194623


I remember there was more, but that should be enough.

[~primetime~]

I always assumed that the military/government would be using some linux based sh*t that no one can use at home...to help security and all that...

[andgar923]

fair enough...

this is what I do on my PC for a living:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5fYgsdrOaA

that is PC first software, it does find its way to the Mac but the updates be over a year long in waiting time...

I also have to file share at work, and no one uses a Mac...there are 100s of PCs in our office but I am not sure that there is even a single Macintosh in the whole building, although there may be one or two hidden somewhere...

can you maybe see why I would do this :rolleyes: when you bring up gadgets and icons and stuff that is extremely meaningless???

it isn't about all that petty stuff...great your computer is "pretty" and clutter free!!!...and user frendly!!!...yay!!!....but can it do what I need it to do???...No, it can not...I NEED a PC...

I am an example of my PC owns the market...PC owns the software market...you know software right???... "the stuff you actually use a computer for"...the reason computers exist...that stuff???

LOl @ meaningless

Like I keep mentioning, its just an 'example' of the overall quality of a Mac OS X and Apple's hardware.

Oh and .........

I dunno a damn thing about 3-D modeling or animation, so I can't and won't argue that.

But I do know that you can do it on a Mac.

If you wanna debate that go debate it with this dude (http://www.youtube.com/user/AppleSoldier#p/c/7978D8B39D7A1DF6).


He's an Apple extremist and will be glad to debate it. He makes a living at doing all that stuff, I don't.

As far as your work using. nothing but winpcs.... good for you. You guys may not use Macs but these people do:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/in-action/southpark/
http://www.apple.com/pro/profiles/villiere/
http://www.apple.com/pro/profiles/rojkind_rosenthal/index2.html
http://www.apple.com/pro/profiles/butts/

Just to name a few.

[~primetime~]

I know that South Park started on SGI machines and then went to Windows:


How do you keep costs down?

South Park is based on construction paper replacement animation. This style is more simplistic than traditional hand-drawn animation, but it is very labor intensive. The use of computers makes it more efficient because things don't have to be cut out and glued together. Instead we use and reuse files from previous shows. The scripts for South Park are written days before a show airs, allowing the content of the show to stay topical. The speed of computer animation allows the animators to get the show on the air.

Do you send any work overseas?

All of our animation is done at our studio in Marina Del Rey [Calif.]. Our animators work on every frame, animating 12 frames a second. A lot of our animators use the computer's tools to fill in inbetweens for walk cycles and head bobs.

What software/hardware do you use?

We use Corel Draw for design and Maya 3.0 for animation on a Windows NT platform. Occasionally we'll create new textures using Photoshop 5.5 and we composite shots using Composer and Digital Fusion.

What are the pitfalls and perks?

For our show the perks far ourweigh the pitfalls. Every animator works off the same files. So when it comes to the look of the show, Cartman always looks like Cartman no matter who animates him. We have no need for an ink-and-paint department; the computer renders out every frame. As a director, the computer allows me to make last-minute changes. If we still did the show with comstruction paper, we'd be re-shooting entire scenes, and it would be not only frustrating, it would be impossible to make air. Being able to go into a saved shot and make a simple fix and send it back to the editor within 15 minutes is priceless.

What do you enjoy? What do you hate?

The computer allows us to be so efficient that we can crank out 6-8 shows in that many weeks. When you work at such a fast pace it's hard to really enjoy the process of making the show. When the shows have aired, however, we get a significant amount of downtime before the next run. I always enjoy the opportunity to catch my breath and recharge before we're back in production. We owe our entire was of scheduling to the fact that we are computer-based.

http://www.spscriptorium.com/SPinfo/MakingOfSouthPark.htm



Maya is PC first software...

If they are using Macs to do thier work now then I have to assume it is because Macintosh is paying them to do so...as an endorcement...like Nike paying someone to wear shoes...

[JtotheIzzo]

they cost more because this is Obama's America, and the goal is to destroy small business

[~primetime~]

you keep avoiding the main point...

great Macs might be superior machines in every way...but the fact remains that THERE IS 100x MORE SOFTWARE AVAILABLE FOR PCs!!!!

why do you buy a computer...TO RUN SOFTWARE!!!


who cares how damn great their machines are when no one is creating software for them...

9 out of 10 people choose a PC over a Mac FOR THAT REASON!!!!

9 out of 10 software companies make software for the PC first FOR THAT REASON!!!



^^^ this is something you keep ignoring, and I keep saying

[andgar923]

Dude, I work for the government. Don't try to correct me. The links you posted are all hypotheticals, or about the iPod/iPhone, not Macs(which is what you said), or don't pertain to what I said(i.e "Apple's three biggest federal customers are NASA, the Department of Energy, and the National Institutes of Health.")

You said the government and the military had "switched over" to Macs. This is patently false, and to be quite honest, disinformation. Working for the government, in the military, visiting various official installations all over the world since early 2002, I have never once seen a Mac.

If a soldier wants to use his iPhone for something rather than what's been issued to him, that's on him. I'm guilty of stuff like that myself. But you make it seem like you're issued an iPod in boot camp.

I agree that the 'switched over' could've been translated as completely abandoning everything for Macs, which isn't what I intended.

But those links I provided weren't "hypotheticals" like you mentioned. You have direct quotes from officials on what they have done and what they're planning on doing.

The white house switching isn't a hypothetical either, they did switch.

I dunno where you get the "hypothetical" from.

And just because 'you' haven't seen Macs being used it doesn't mean that they don't use them.

I mean.... is this "hypothetical"?

http://www.gcn.com/Articles/2009/02/23/Mac-in-the-Enterprise.aspx

[andgar923]

you keep avoiding the main point...

great Macs might be superior machines in every way...but the fact remains that THERE IS 100x MORE SOFTWARE AVAILABLE FOR PCs!!!!

why do you buy a computer...TO RUN SOFTWARE!!!


who cares how damn great their machines are when no one is creating software for them...

9 out of 10 people choose a PC over a Mac FOR THAT REASON!!!!

9 out of 10 software companies make software for the PC first FOR THAT REASON!!!



^^^ this is something you keep ignoring, and I keep saying

And you keep ignoring the FACT that Macs can also run them along with Apple only software.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I think macs are good.

[answer]

i think i can speak for everyone when i say this thread is dildos

[andgar923]

I know that South Park started on SGI machines and then went to Windows:



http://www.spscriptorium.com/SPinfo/MakingOfSouthPark.htm



Maya is PC first software...

If they are using Macs to do thier work now then I have to assume it is because Macintosh is paying them to do so...as an endorcement...like Nike paying someone to wear shoes...

And how do you explain those other people using Maya in their Macs?

[~primetime~]

And you keep ignoring the FACT that Macs can also run them along with Apple only software.

okay...well, you're just wrong about that

sorry

[andgar923]

okay...well, you're just wrong about that

sorry

LOLLL

How am I wrong?

Macs can run Windows software!

[~primetime~]

And how do you explain those other people using Maya in their Macs?
it is made for PC first:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=13577897&siteID=123112

[I]* Contact your local reseller for pricing details.
** Feature only available with network license.
[COLOR="Red"]

[andgar923]

At least one of your links said something along the lines of "the military could do this with Apple" i.e. hypothetical. "Planning on doing" - hypothetical. Also one of the links was about a ruggedized Mac approved for military use. You'll see a lot of Toughbooks in the military, but I'll never say "the military has switched over to Panasonic!"

Also you posted links about the iPod? That is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about.

"one" link mentioned that I re-checked.

But on the other links they're already using them, and just alluded to how more will be added.

And the White House did switch to Macs.

The ipod link was just an example.

And I agree I take back (and I explained how I chose the wrong word) "gov switches to macs", but at least it was true in the case of the White House and some offices.

[~primetime~]

LOLLL

How am I wrong?

Macs can run Windows software!
that still doesn't mean that the software that runs on Windows will work dude...

http://usa.autodesk.com/products/mac-compatible-products


^^^ there is a list of the only stuff Autodesk makes that will run on a Windows based mac...the other stuff you need a PC to run...



I also don't see the point in anyone using a Mac to run Windows...that is just gonna cause issues anyway...

you can run a Mac OS on a PC, but I would never do that...

[andgar923]

[QUOTE=~primetime~]it is made for PC first:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=13577897&siteID=123112

[I]* Contact your local reseller for pricing details.
** Feature only available with network license.
[COLOR="Red"]

[~primetime~]

So what if its made for the pc first?

What does that matter?

What matter is that you can still run it, no?

You're fixated on the idea that they made it for pc or made it for pc first, but you keep forgetting that it still runs on a Mac. Whether via virtualization or natively.

And you also keep forgetting that Apple also has 3-D modeling software, software which you weren't even aware of.

How do you not know about these applications when they're also used by industry pros?

How?
why does it matter?

here:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=46372

(read post #9)


read the first 4-5 posts...

it is like that for EVERYTHING on a Mac...unless it is made by Apple...(no one uses 3D software made by Apple, never heard of it)

[DustBytes]

And as far as Macs simulating/booting Windows for gaming is concerned, there is some performance lost in that filter, which is another reason why so many computer gaming enthusiasts choose PC.

i have a 2300 dollar mac and i can say this is false. windows simulation is far worse then many mac users say it is. i can honestly say having both operating systems (mac having better hardware) that windows is a lot more useful. Too much support/applications available for apple to even compete.

[andgar923]

that still doesn't mean that the software that runs on Windows will work dude...

http://usa.autodesk.com/products/mac-compatible-products


^^^ there is a list of the only stuff Autodesk makes that will run on a Windows based mac...the other stuff you need a PC to run...



I also don't see the point in anyone using a Mac to run Windows...that is just gonna cause issues anyway...

you can run a Mac OS on a PC, but I would never do that...

*sigh*

Let me explain this to you slowly.

Those applications that you're linking me to, that are only available for Windows users....

CAN ALSO BE RAN IN MACS.

And.... I explained this to you last time.

People don't switch to Macs to run Windows. They switch because they have the 'option' to do so.

[andgar923]

How else could it be translated? "Switched over" means you stopped using one thing, and started using something else in its stead.

I already conceded, wrong choice of words.

[~primetime~]

*sigh*

Let me explain this to you slowly.

Those applications that you're linking me to, that are only available for Windows users....

CAN ALSO BE RAN IN MACS.

And.... I explained this to you last time.

People don't switch to Macs to run Windows. They switch because they have the 'option' to do so.
NO THEY CAN NOT!!!

EVEN IF THE MAC IS RUNNING WINDOWS!!!


it is clear that you just aren't reading or paying attention to sh*t...

go back and look at the Audodesk website again, at the products they have available "FOR WINDOWS ON A MAC"...most of their sh*t will not work, and needs a PC...

[DustBytes]

the software to emulate windows is crap... i've tried just about all of them. Don't bother attempting to run softwares like autocad unless you have atleast 8 gigs of ram...

[andgar923]

why does it matter?

here:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=46372

(read post #9)


read the first 4-5 posts...

it is like that for EVERYTHING on a Mac...unless it is made by Apple...(no one uses 3D software made by Apple, never heard of it)

I'm seriously coming to the conclusion that you're mildly retarded.

Really.

[DustBytes]

If you boot into/simulate Windows. LOL.

Which I find hilarious. Just the other day a colleague told me I should get a Mac. I asked why. He stuttered for a moment, then said "It just works, and you can use Windows." :oldlol:


Most students in college use macs because of reliability and nothing else. If they told you because you can run windows, that obviously tells you that is one of the better features of mac and that's just shameful.

[andgar923]

NO THEY CAN NOT!!!

EVEN IF THE MAC IS RUNNING WINDOWS!!!


it is clear that you just aren't reading or paying attention to sh*t...

go back and look at the Audodesk website again, at the products they have available "FOR WINDOWS ON A MAC"...most of their sh*t will not work, and needs a PC...
[QUOTE]Autodesk provides full support for the following products when used on the Mac via Parallels Desktop, Autodesk

[~primetime~]

I'm seriously coming to the conclusion that you're mildly retarded.

Really.
oh god...

okay fine, Macs can do everything that PCs can do, and the entire video game/ 3D industry is just being dumb...they should all switch to Macs....

:rolleyes:

[andgar923]

If you boot into/simulate Windows. LOL.

Which I find hilarious. Just the other day a colleague told me I should get a Mac. I asked why. He stuttered for a moment, then said "It just works, and you can use Windows." :oldlol:

But you're still running them right?

And obviously your friend doesn't know a damn thing, or just didn't know how to explain it to you.

[~primetime~]

.....
"THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS"



as in "NOT ALL OF THIER PRODUCTS"...



f*ck you're stupid...:banghead:

[andgar923]

oh god...

okay fine, Macs can do everything that PCs can do, and the entire video game/ 3D industry is just being dumb...they should all switch to Macs....

:rolleyes:

LOL

How the?

What the?

[DustBytes]

oh god...

okay fine, Macs can do everything that PCs can do, and the entire video game/ 3D industry is just being dumb...they should all switch to Macs....

:rolleyes:

Gamers will all agree, macs simulating windows are horrible gaming rigs. They can run the game fine, but they are SLOW...

i personally confirm this.

[andgar923]

"THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS"



as in "NOT ALL OF THIER PRODUCTS"...



f*ck you're stupid...:banghead:

That's not all their products?

if not than I take a huge L for this.

[DustBytes]

Maya 2010 is not supported.

[andgar923]

On the flip side.... I can state the same about industry standard Apple only software and plugins.

[DustBytes]

On the flip side.... I can state the same about industry standard Apple only software and plugins.

There are little to no software windows users would like to run on their rigs. Please give us some examples...

[~primetime~]

NVIDIA is PC first hardware...(as in, it is first and formost designed to run on PCs andgar)


I bet that is why alot of games and 3D software just do not run on Macs...(even if the Mac is running Windows andgar)

http://blog.pcnews.ro/wp-content/photo/2007/06/nvidia-corporation-tesla3.jpg

[andgar923]

There are little to no software windows users would like to run on their rigs. Please give us some examples...

I dunno where to start, give me a category.

[Gundress]

NVIDIA is PC first hardware...(as in, it is first and formost designed to run on PCs andgar)


I bet that is why alot of games and 3D software just do not run on Macs...(even if the Mac is running Windows andgar)


Well said, primetime.

Wanna play monopoly with us?

[DustBytes]

Any, dont buy more time.

[~primetime~]

Any, dont buy more time.
all the stuff Apple makes that Window users want is available for Windows...

like itunes, and all the "icrap"...

[DustBytes]

i am pretty damn sure there are more windows users with itunes then mac users...

[~primetime~]

i am pretty damn sure there are more windows users with itunes then mac users...
there is no question about that...90% of the market is PC...

[Gundress]

there is no question about that...90% of the market is PC...


??????

[~primetime~]

??????
PM me the room...I'll wait till you get 3 others on a table...

[YAWN]

this is a bit unrelated but i don't feel like starting a new thread, and ive been out of town for a couple weeks so not sure if anyone mentioned this. i saw the latest episode of curb your enthusiasm tonight and i couldn't help but notice that jerry had a mac. was it not just like 6 months ago where they had him on all those microsoft commercials?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2009/10/seinfeld-curb-mac.jpg

[~primetime~]

No One Wants To Play With You. Go Away.
dude is relentless...lol

[~primetime~]

this is a bit unrelated but i don't feel like starting a new thread, and ive been out of town for a couple weeks so not sure if anyone mentioned this. i saw the latest episode of curb your enthusiasm tonight and i couldn't help but notice that jerry had a mac. was it not just like 6 months ago where they had him on all those microsoft commercials?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2009/10/seinfeld-curb-mac.jpg
this episode?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWMXJ-LZhk8&feature=related

:roll:

that had me rollin for hours...